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Inspiration

Why Chan Masters Shouted: Words, Silence and Direct Experience

Upaya Zen Center
Upaya Zen Center
Oct 8, 2026
10 min read
Watch · 7

On an evening at Upaya Zen Center, a Zen teacher in Santa Fe, New Mexico, begins a fall practice period by taking a small poll. How many people in the room know the Chan master Xiao Xiao? The answer, she jokes, is overwhelmingly a minority, and fewer still know anything about the Chan period itself. What follows in this dharma talk, given by Sensei Ryotan Cynthia Kear and published on the Upaya Zen Center channel, is less a history lesson than an argument about why the old masters behaved so strangely with their students, and why that strangeness still matters. Her central claim is that the most intelligent, language-loving human mind is simultaneously our greatest asset and our most stubborn obstacle to living a direct, intimate life. The Chan teachers, she suggests, understood this centuries ago and built a practice around it, using the very words that blocked students as the vehicle for getting past them.

Read · 8 sections

What was the Chan period, and why does it set the stage?

Sensei Kear frames the whole practice period around a particular moment of history. The Chan period, which she roughly dates to 600 to 900 CE, was a time of enormous contradiction. It was, in her words, "simultaneously like the height of great Chinese civilization in terms of art and literature and culture," but it was also marked by "incredible pockets of violence and disturbing warfare and lots of political upheaval." Those were the conditions under which Buddhism, having traveled from India along the Silk Roads, arrived in China and met Chinese culture, Confucianism and Daoism in particular.

That collision shaped the teaching. Chan Buddhism did not simply transplant an Indian doctrine. It developed what she calls a "special and unique flavor," one that invited each practitioner to have "a direct experience of our own lives." The emphasis on directness is the thread that ties the whole talk together. Xiao Xiao, the master at the center of this practice period, lived near the end of that era, and Sensei Kear treats him as a figure whose questions are the same ones people bring to a cushion today.

What does it mean to "share the feeling" of where you are?

To ground the teaching, Sensei Kear reads from Suzuki Roshi, drawing on a recent collection of his essays titled Becoming Yourself. The passage she chooses is spare and pointed:

"Sharing the feeling we have right here right now is the fundamental thing for Zen practice. Zen in a word is to share our feeling with people with trees and with mountains wherever we are. That is Zen practice." (Suzuki Roshi, as read by Sensei Ryotan Cynthia Kear in this Upaya dharma talk)

What makes the passage land is its candor about the mind's habits. Suzuki Roshi describes a head crowded with "ice cream or bananas or how much soap costs in one store compared to another," with newspaper ads and the day's news provoking reaction after reaction. Sensei Kear adds her own gloss: "It's almost impossible to share the actual feeling we have where we are right now." Even in the middle of the woods, the feeling of the woods is hard to appreciate. The passage's claim is that when that appreciation actually happens, it is zazen, and that it is "our direct experience of our own life."

This is where the talk starts to explain why practice is not primarily about acquiring information. The problem is not a shortage of knowledge. It is that the mind is too full of commentary, of "rubbish," as Suzuki Roshi calls it, to be present with what is actually happening.

Why do questions about life sound so familiar across centuries?

Sensei Kear next turns to Joan Sutherland's book Through the Forests of Every Color: Awakening with Koans, which she says she has "come to deeply love." Sutherland describes how we set out our lives "shaped like wondering," looking for an answer to "the shared questions about life, death, and meaning," or to a question "uniquely formed in our own lives." The thing that aches on some days, she writes, is "something heavy with a sharp edge that we're carrying next to our skin." Sutherland also speaks of "a soft glowing world in which the defining characteristics are not limitation and repetition but something more spacious and at ease."

Sensei Kear's point is that those desires do not belong to modern people alone. "In the time of Chan these questions these desires were the same as the desires and the questions that we have right now," she says. How can I get inside my life? How can I be more intimate and more relaxed? The Chan masters were responding to the same ache, which is part of why the koan literature still reads as personal rather than antique.

Why do beautiful minds get in the way of experience?

The turn in the talk is a striking one. Sensei Kear calls the human mind "beautiful, beautiful minds that love words, that love stories, that love conceptualizing," and she credits those capacities with "so many wonderful gifts." But she also names the trap in the same breath: that same mind "can be an incredible hindrance to us at the same time."

She describes her own long struggle with this. In late adolescence and early adulthood, she says, she had a sense of "where is my life and how do I get on the inside of it?" It felt, she recalls, "like I was just pressing my nose against the window pane of my real life, unable to kind of somehow get through." Much of her own behavior, she notes, was rehearsing the past in order to make it more palatable, or rehearsing the future, rehearsing lines like "This is what I'm going to say when this happens." Thinking about life, she concludes, "is not the same thing as being inside our life."

That distinction is the core of the talk. Concepts are maps. The map can be accurate and still leave you standing outside the territory.

Why did Zen masters shout and strike their students?

Sensei Kear acknowledges the famous stories directly. "You probably have heard of some of the Zen masters who would suddenly just shout at you," she says, "wake up. What does that feel like? Where are you?" Some struck their students. She is clear that she will not do that, and reassures the room that everyone present is safe. The shouting and striking, though, are a serious teaching device, and she wants listeners to understand the logic behind them.

To explain that logic she turns to Thomas Merton's introduction to The Golden Age of Zen. Merton, she says, identified the paradox at the heart of Zen: humans are deeply word-based, and words are an essential tool for communication, yet words can obstruct. Merton wrote, in the passage she reads:

"Zen however resolutely resists any temptation to be easily communicable and a great deal of the paradox and violence of Zen teaching and practice is aimed at blasting the foundation of ready explanation and comforting symbol out from under the disciple's supposed experience." (Thomas Merton, introduction to The Golden Age of Zen, as quoted in this Upaya dharma talk)

The violence, in Sensei Kear's reading, is not cruelty for its own sake. It is an attempt to shake students out of "the rut of just assuming that we know what life is" and what is happening in it. A shout cuts the chain of explanation before it can settle into comfort.

How can words be used to get past words?

Here the talk reaches its most interesting paradox. If words are the obstruction, why does the practice still rely on them? Sensei Kear points out that "a big piece of the practice is actually using the same thing that can be an obstruction to our freedom and to our experience of our direct life, which is to use words." She admits the terrain "gets very very tricky."

The talk then moves through a sequence of teaching stories, several of which turn on ordinary acts. A monk asks whether he should seek to become a Buddha, and the master's answer is not an explanation but a redirection. Other exchanges turn on washing dishes, on looking in the rearview mirror, and on whether a monk has eaten his rice. In each case the ordinary moment is the teaching. The question the talk keeps returning to is simple and demanding: what is the truth of this, right now? Sensei Kear also references Dogen, the thirteenth-century Japanese Zen master, as the talk approaches its conclusion about finding one's own life in the koan. The practice, she suggests, is to let the koan keep the ordinary world from going dead.

What the teaching asks of a listener, then, is not to understand Xiao Xiao intellectually. It is to notice when understanding has become a substitute for presence, and to let the conversation with the koan loosen that substitute.

What does direct experience actually feel like?

The talk leaves the feeling of directness mostly to the listener, which is consistent with its argument. Sensei Kear describes it through its absence and its opposite: the sense of pressing against glass, the rehearsing of past and future, the rubbish that fills the mind. Against those she sets an "uninterrupted flow of authentic" life, a phrase that appears in the talk's later sections, and the "spacious and at ease" world Sutherland describes. Direct experience, in this framing, is not a special state achieved by effort. It is what remains when the commentary lets go for a moment and the trees, the mountains, and the person in front of you are simply there.

For a reader who has never sat in a Zen hall, the practical takeaway is modest and useful. Notice how much of your day is spent narrating it. Notice the moment you turn an experience into a story about the experience. The Chan masters, as Sensei Kear presents them, were not against thinking. They were against mistaking thinking for life.

Where to go from here

  • Watch the full talk on the Upaya Zen Center channel, where Sensei Ryotan Cynthia Kear develops the readings from Suzuki Roshi, Sutherland, and Merton at greater length.
  • Read Becoming Yourself, the collection of Suzuki Roshi's essays from which the "sharing the feeling" passage is drawn.
  • Read Joan Sutherland's Through the Forests of Every Color: Awakening with Koans for her account of why koans speak to ordinary questions about life, death, and meaning.
  • Read Thomas Merton's introduction to The Golden Age of Zen to see the paradox of words in Zen laid out in his own terms.
  • Join Upaya's daily zazen practice on Zoom, linked from the video description at upaya.org/program/zazen, or explore the Upaya Wisdom Library for more teachings.

The practice period described in this talk is built around one question: what is the feeling of this moment, before the story about it begins? The Chan masters found their answer in shouts and silence. Sensei Kear offers words, carefully chosen, and asks the listener to use them as a way back to the window, and then through it.

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Transcript

[0:00] much. Yeah. Good evening everyone.

[0:03] >> Nice to uh nice to be with you all. Um

[0:08] before I get started, I'm just kind of

[0:09] curious. Um how many people So we're in

[0:12] in a practice period right now and our

[0:14] theme is Xiao Xiao who was a Chan master

[0:18] and we're talking about his coons and

[0:20] also about the period. How many people

[0:23] have some familiarity with Xiao Xiaou?

[0:25] Let's start there.

[0:27] overwhelmingly a minority. [laughter]

[0:31] And how about Chan? The period of Chan.

[0:34] Okay. Even even less. All right. Well,

[0:36] I'm not going to talk about either. No,

[0:38] I'm just joking. Um

[0:41] I am not it is it is a big topic and it

[0:45] is uh kind of a a particular piece of of

[0:49] history particularly of our our Buddhist

[0:52] um experience

[0:54] where a lot of um forces come together.

[0:58] It's kind of a sweeping time. These vast

[1:01] vast uh landscapes, all of this

[1:04] political turmoil, but this is all

[1:07] happening in a period of what we call

[1:09] chant, which is about

[1:12] I'm going to roughly say 600 to 900 uh

[1:16] common era, right? And um and Xiao Xiao

[1:20] is living um toward the end of these uh

[1:24] this period. Um, it's simultaneously

[1:28] like the height of great Chinese

[1:31] civilization in terms of art and

[1:33] literature and culture, but there also

[1:35] the these incredible pockets of of

[1:39] violence and and disturbing warfare and

[1:42] lots of political upheaval. So, it's a

[1:45] it's a really interesting confluence of

[1:49] of events that are happening. And um so

[1:55] out of this period of time, Buddhism as

[1:58] it has come from India along the Silk

[2:01] Roads

[2:03] um arrives in China and kind of brings a

[2:07] special and unique flavor

[2:10] not only from India but also because of

[2:13] what it is encountering at the time

[2:16] which are Chinese culture and

[2:18] civilization, Confucianism and and

[2:21] particularly dowoism, right?

[2:24] And the um

[2:29] the invitation,

[2:31] if I may use that word, of the Chan

[2:34] Buddhist practice at that time is for

[2:37] each and every one of us, just like the

[2:41] invitation is for us today, I think, to

[2:44] have a direct experience of our own

[2:46] lives. something that is direct, that is

[2:50] immediate, that feels authentic, that

[2:53] gives us a sense of of intimacy. I want

[2:57] to start by by reading two uh brief

[3:01] paragraphs from some contemporary

[3:04] teachers. Many of you have heard of

[3:06] Suzuki Roshi, I dare say. and in his um

[3:12] the recent collection of his essays

[3:15] edited by uh Juryu and I guess also by

[3:18] Mel was involved. Um

[3:22] the title of the book is becoming

[3:24] yourself which is part and parcel of the

[3:27] journey toward having a direct

[3:28] experience or an outcome of having a

[3:30] direct experience of our lives. And um

[3:35] he says uh Suzuki Roshi says sharing the

[3:39] feeling we have right here right now is

[3:43] the fundamental thing for Zen practice.

[3:46] Zen in a word is to share our feeling

[3:49] with people with trees and with

[3:52] mountains wherever we are. That is Zen

[3:54] practice.

[3:56] Usually our mind is filled with

[3:58] something like ice cream or bananas or

[4:00] how much soap costs in one store

[4:02] compared to another or by looking at the

[4:04] newspaper and seeing an ad for sale.

[4:07] This is my inter uh um interjection or

[4:11] by reading the news that's going on

[4:13] right and having that uh cause a

[4:15] reaction in us. So it's almost

[4:17] impossible to share the actual feeling

[4:19] we have where we are right now. Our life

[4:22] is going on and on endlessly filled with

[4:26] rubbish. Rubbish at first. At some

[4:28] moment it is important for you but not

[4:31] necessary to hold on to it past that

[4:33] point. It is the same with our everyday

[4:36] life because we have so much useless

[4:38] rubbish rubbish in our minds. It is hard

[4:42] to share our feeling with people with

[4:45] things with trees or with mountains.

[4:48] Even though we are right in the middle

[4:50] of the woods, it is still hard to

[4:52] appreciate the feeling of the woods.

[4:55] When we can really appreciate the

[4:57] feeling of the woods, that is Zazen. And

[5:01] I would say that is our direct

[5:03] experience of our own life.

[5:08] And then um a book that I have come to

[5:10] deeply love called Through the Forests

[5:13] of Every Color: Awakening with Coons by

[5:17] Joan Sutherland.

[5:23] She says,

[5:26] "We set out our lives shaped like

[5:30] wondering. In the beginning, we're

[5:32] looking perhaps for some kind of answer.

[5:35] An answer to the shared questions about

[5:37] life, death, and meaning, or to the

[5:40] question uniquely formed in our own

[5:42] lives.

[5:44] The thing that aches on some days and

[5:46] causes a sudden pain on others,

[5:49] something heavy with a sharp edge that

[5:51] we're carrying next to our skin. or were

[5:54] propelled by intimations of another

[5:56] world inside this one. A soft glowing

[5:59] world in which the defining

[6:01] characteristics are not limitation and

[6:04] repetition but something more spacious

[6:07] and at ease. How do we get closer to

[6:10] that? Perhaps we have both kinds of

[6:13] questions at the same time which barely

[6:15] leaves energy to pack for the journey.

[6:20] So thinking of these um the feeling that

[6:24] I get from both of these readings as

[6:28] they relate to this particular theme of

[6:31] our practice period is that in the time

[6:34] of Chan

[6:36] these questions these desires were the

[6:39] same as the desires and the questions

[6:41] that we have right now. How can I get

[6:45] inside my life? How can I kind of move

[6:49] closer? How can I be more intimate and

[6:52] more relaxed and have this sense of

[6:54] direct experience?

[6:56] And the Chan masters, I think, very

[6:58] wisely understood that one of the

[7:02] obstructions that we all have then and

[7:04] now is our beautiful minds.

[7:10] are beautiful, beautiful minds that love

[7:12] words, that love stories, that loves

[7:16] conceptualizing and

[7:19] and and produce so many wonderful gifts

[7:22] and also can be an incredible hindrance

[7:24] to us at the same time.

[7:30] So

[7:33] in response to this awareness that they

[7:36] had, they developed a different type a

[7:40] different style of of Buddhist practice.

[7:43] You know, you probably have heard of

[7:45] some

[7:46] some of the Zen masters who would

[7:48] suddenly just shout at you, [laughter]

[7:53] wake up.

[7:55] What does that feel like? Where are you?

[7:57] are you here? Right.

[7:59] Um some would would strike their

[8:03] students. I will not do that. Your

[8:06] everyone here is safe.

[8:09] And

[8:11] a big piece of the practice is

[8:14] actually using

[8:16] the same thing that can be an

[8:18] obstruction to our freedom and to our

[8:20] experience of our direct life, which is

[8:22] to use words. it gets very very tricky,

[8:27] right? I think that um Thomas Merton in

[8:31] his um if some of you um

[8:37] were here last fall practice period and

[8:39] I think Kathy was here and Chinszen I

[8:42] think talking about Chan as well, right?

[8:44] In the book um the golden age of Zen,

[8:47] Thomas Merin uh has a beautiful uh

[8:50] introduction which I think is a pretty

[8:52] nice description of um of Zen and he's

[8:58] talking about the the the inherent

[9:01] problem or kind of this conundrum that

[9:03] we have as humans loving words and being

[9:07] so word-based evolutionarily,

[9:10] you know, just they're such an important

[9:12] tool for communication and Yet uh as I I

[9:15] said they can also be uh an obstruction.

[9:19] So he says this is Thomas Merin

[9:23] even while using words right he says Zen

[9:26] however resolutely resists any

[9:28] temptation to be easily communicable and

[9:31] a great deal of the paradox and violence

[9:34] of Zen teaching and practice is aimed at

[9:37] blasting the foundation of ready

[9:39] explanation and comforting symbol out

[9:42] from under the discip disciples supposed

[9:45] experience.

[9:47] So this this violence I mean whether

[9:49] it's the shout or whether it's inherent

[9:52] in terms of how the words are

[9:53] constructed there is a desire to really

[9:57] shake us up

[9:59] to get us out of the rut

[10:02] of just assuming that we know what life

[10:05] what's happening in life. We're kind of

[10:07] our life is direct experiences over here

[10:10] and we're over here in our minds.

[10:14] Thinking about our life is not the same

[10:16] thing as being inside our life.

[10:21] I very very poignantly remember this

[10:24] experience for a long time in my life

[10:28] especially late adolescence and early

[10:30] adulthood just having this sense of like

[10:33] where is my life and how do I get on the

[10:35] inside of it? What is it really like? It

[10:38] felt like I was just, you know, kind of

[10:40] pressing my nose against the window pane

[10:43] of my real life, unable to kind of

[10:46] somehow get through, right, and really

[10:48] feel like I was in it. So much of the

[10:50] the pattern that I experienced in my own

[10:53] behavior, heart and mind, was rehearsing

[10:56] the past, that which had already

[10:58] happened in order to make it more h uh

[11:02] um palatable to me or make myself better

[11:05] in whatever had happened or or um

[11:08] rehashing the past or rehearsing the

[11:10] future. This is what I'm going to say

[11:12] when this happens. Never being right

[11:15] here, right? And I think for many of us

[11:18] in part because of habit energies

[11:21] because of just the way the human mind

[11:23] works we forget that life is what

[11:25] happens in between before and after.

[11:29] Right? So he goes on to say and talk in

[11:33] terms of talking about language and I

[11:35] think articulating what some of the the

[11:37] problem is but also where some of these

[11:39] coons are trying to come from. The

[11:42] language used by Zen and particularly by

[11:44] these Chan masters is therefore in some

[11:47] sense an anti- language and the logic of

[11:51] Zen is a radical reversal of

[11:53] philosophical language. The human

[11:56] dilemma of communication is that we

[11:57] cannot communicate ordinarily without

[12:00] words. But every ordinary experience

[12:03] tends to be falsified by our habits of

[12:06] verbalization and rationalization.

[12:11] Virginia Wolf said coming out of her

[12:13] front door. She said, "No matter what I

[12:15] write, it will whatever however I try to

[12:18] describe the color green, it will pale

[12:22] in compared to in comparison to this

[12:24] ordinary shrub right outside my door.

[12:27] Um, the convenient tool of language

[12:30] enables

[12:32] uh the convenient tools of language

[12:35] enable us to decide beforehand

[12:38] what we think things mean.

[12:41] and tempt us to easily see things only

[12:44] in a way that fits our logical

[12:47] perceptions of our verb verbal formulas.

[12:52] So it it's almost I mean it's a

[12:54] challenge for us, right? It's not easy.

[12:56] It's not like we're failing. I think we

[12:58] all have this kind of uh experience

[13:01] where you know be even as the the

[13:04] situation is unfolding even as the

[13:07] moment of our life is unfolding the

[13:09] story starts to be told about what is

[13:12] going on and again the story and the

[13:16] idea is not the same thing as the direct

[13:18] experience

[13:20] and that is what the Chan masters are

[13:22] trying to do that is what Zen to this

[13:24] day is inviting us to do to get beneath

[13:27] the surface and really to feel and

[13:30] inhabit our lives. Kind of like Occupy

[13:33] Wall Street, occupy your life.

[13:36] Um, instead of seeing things and facts

[13:39] as they are, we see them as reflections

[13:41] and verifications of the sentences we

[13:44] have previously made up in our minds. We

[13:47] quickly forget how to simply see things

[13:50] and substitute our words and formulas

[13:52] for the things themselves. manipulate

[13:55] manipulating facts so that we only see

[13:58] what fits our convenient prejudices.

[14:01] Zen uses language against itself to

[14:04] blast out these preconceptions and to

[14:06] destroy the specious reality quote

[14:09] unquote in our minds so that we can see

[14:12] directly.

[14:15] And I think that when you know when we

[14:18] arrive at the shores of our Zen practice

[14:21] or maybe something else some other time

[14:23] in our life, we arrive with this deep

[14:26] longing and yearning to have more

[14:29] intimacy to more have more intimacy with

[14:32] ourselves, to have more intimacy with

[14:34] life, to kind of get out of this way of

[14:38] living where for myself at least, you

[14:40] know, decades of this is where it was

[14:42] all happening above the eyebrows as

[14:45] opposed to a fully embodied experience

[14:47] of what's going on.

[14:50] Um the good news, the very good news

[14:52] about all of this is that we're an

[14:54] excellent company apart from being in

[14:56] each other all of us having this similar

[14:59] experience. Um you know one of our uh

[15:03] key key people in Zen coming later than

[15:05] Chan is Doan and he writes very

[15:09] beautifully in um a fasacle called

[15:14] Giu ei if I can find the quote. Ah yes.

[15:23] What what being attached to Buddha means

[15:28] is that a person has formed an

[15:30] intellectual concept of enlightenment

[15:33] and then becomes attached to this

[15:35] concept and in in their understanding of

[15:38] it because this view accompanies them

[15:42] through each moment. They do not look

[15:44] for the opportunity to let go of this

[15:46] concept and understanding and so they

[15:48] uselessly hold on to this mistaken view.

[15:52] I recall my own indulgence in

[15:55] conceptualization

[15:56] as my tying myself up without a rope. It

[16:00] was a feder at every moment. For the

[16:03] tree of self, all this discursive

[16:06] thinking and conceptualization

[16:08] had not fallen, and the wisteria vines

[16:10] of my entanglements had not withered

[16:12] away. This was simply my passing through

[16:15] life while me meaninglessly imprisoned

[16:19] in a cave of ignorance on the periphery

[16:22] of Buddhism.

[16:24] >> And I love that image. I mean, I'm a big

[16:26] Dogen fan, but I love it when he is so

[16:29] self-revolatory

[16:30] and I can really really relate to him.

[16:33] It's like, oh yeah, I do that, too. It's

[16:35] so encouraging. Right? So, here he is

[16:38] having this concept of what direct

[16:40] experience is of how to manifest our

[16:42] true nature, how to live out of that.

[16:45] And he's saying, I did this, too. I tied

[16:47] myself up with with that with ropes and

[16:50] I buried myself in a cave and I was just

[16:53] feet from real the real thing from

[16:56] Buddha, right?

[16:58] So um so good news he was able to uh to

[17:01] get out of it and and and so are we. So

[17:05] the Chan masters

[17:08] are really trying to shake us up and to

[17:11] wake us up from this type of um

[17:15] routinized thinking. this habituated

[17:17] thinking and feeling in a certain way, a

[17:20] little bit of sleepwalking, although

[17:22] that might be too drastic and too dire a

[17:24] way to to explain it. And [snorts]

[17:27] um and so they come up with these uh

[17:30] these coons, these stories that are

[17:34] emerge out of conversations with each

[17:37] other, right? So we think of them right

[17:39] now perhaps as riddles. You know that

[17:42] the ancients knew these ancient masters

[17:44] they were so much wiser. They were

[17:46] speaking in a particular type of

[17:48] language that seems sounds foreign to us

[17:51] but actually it was just in their

[17:52] everyday language right and they're

[17:54] trying to um in these conversations

[17:58] the master is trying to always point the

[18:01] student out of this conceptualization.

[18:05] So let me give you a uh well let me

[18:07] first uh tell you a couple of uh formal

[18:10] definitions especially for those of you

[18:12] who uh may not be as familiar with

[18:14] coons. Um

[18:17] in uh

[18:20] Thomas Clearary writing a book on

[18:22] meditating with coons he says the answer

[18:25] to a is not a sentence or gesture

[18:28] but the change in the learner's mental

[18:30] state brought about by working with the

[18:33] So this itself is not about

[18:37] finding a true answer but something

[18:39] shifts in us. Something shifts in our

[18:42] perception and our ability to hold

[18:45] paradox and contradiction that actually

[18:48] maybe opens up our space makes us more

[18:52] capacious internally.

[18:54] It doesn't even matter if we ever get

[18:56] back to that that paradox that

[18:59] Maybe it just makes us gives us more

[19:01] capacity to hold life as life is, life

[19:04] as our life is. Um, in order to see into

[19:09] the a we must go beyond the words

[19:12] and ideas that describe reality and

[19:15] directly and intimately experience

[19:18] reality itself. The answer to a is

[19:21] not a fixed piece of information. It is

[19:24] its own intimate and direct experience

[19:27] of the universe and its infinite facets.

[19:31] It is a state of consciousness.

[19:33] And that's from uh from Daido Lori. And

[19:36] then Joan Sutherland says, "A does

[19:39] not seek to resolve an apparent duality

[19:42] by choosing one over the other, but by

[19:44] finding a third option that includes

[19:47] both in something bigger.

[19:50] So, let me give you a couple examples of

[19:52] these um these coons. And I think that

[19:56] that you know, we tend to think maybe of

[19:59] the coons as being particularly uh

[20:02] perplexing

[20:03] um obscure, but actually they come in a

[20:06] lot of different flavors, I think. And I

[20:08] think that Xiao Xiaou offers us um a

[20:11] great uh example of some different ways

[20:14] of working with coons and and how the

[20:16] teacher and the he as a two as a teacher

[20:19] brought forth uh coons. So, uh,

[20:22] sometimes they can just be completely

[20:24] paradoxical, designed to kind of get us

[20:27] off our pins of of thinking that we

[20:29] know, uh, what it is. And always I'm

[20:32] always touched because the student

[20:33] comes, you know, wanting on the one hand

[20:36] to perhaps appear like they're so

[20:38] sincere by asking a really big question.

[20:41] So this monk says, "What about it when I

[20:44] seek to be Buddha?" And the master Ziao

[20:47] in this case says, "What a tremendous

[20:49] waste of energy.

[20:51] >> [laughter]

[20:52] >> The monk said, "What about it when I'm

[20:54] not wasting energy?" The master said,

[20:57] "In that case, you are Buddha." Right?

[21:01] Paradox. You know, we want things to go

[21:04] A to B, B to C, C to D. Right? And this

[21:08] is just getting us out of that habitual

[21:10] way of thinking so that we're not locked

[21:12] into such a small mental or emotional

[21:15] experience of our lives. Sometimes they

[21:18] can be confounding. And I I reference

[21:21] and refer everybody back to Shinszan's a

[21:24] wonderful uh talk that you gave last

[21:26] Wednesday on probably Xiao Xiao's most

[21:29] famous Does a dog a monk asked

[21:33] Xiao Xiao does a dog have Buddha nature

[21:35] or not? And Xiao Xiao replied

[21:38] Moo.

[21:40] That's not Moo like M O.

[21:43] That's moo in a sense of meaning no or

[21:46] nothingness.

[21:47] Um, [clears throat] Shinszan had the

[21:49] wisdom not to give any uh direct answer

[21:52] to what the coan means. I'll follow in

[21:55] that tradition. We all get to figure

[21:56] them out ourselves. But just kind of

[21:58] like a confounding thing. Does a dog

[22:01] have Buddha nature? Moo.

[22:06] Right. Okay. Sometimes they're just

[22:08] about getting right here and having this

[22:11] sense of immediacy.

[22:14] Pay attention. A newly arrived monk said

[22:16] to Zhia Xiao, "I have just entered this

[22:18] monastery. Please give me some

[22:20] instruction." Zia Xhiao asked, "Have you

[22:23] eaten your porridge yet?" The monk

[22:24] replied, "Yes, I have." Zia Xhao said,

[22:27] "Then go wash your bowl."

[22:30] At that moment, the monk was

[22:31] enlightened.

[22:34] So the so the the student comes to the

[22:37] master, "Please give me some

[22:39] instruction. I've traveled. I've

[22:41] pilgrimmed so far to be with you, oh

[22:43] master." And then Xiao Xiao says go wash

[22:47] your bowl.

[22:49] What does he mean? What is this

[22:50] experience? What is it in our lives to

[22:53] just go wash our bowl? Right? And we can

[22:57] think about washing our dishes. You

[22:59] know, Tiknadhan beautifully points to

[23:01] this as a way of practice. Do we wash

[23:04] our dishes just to get through them? Or

[23:07] do we wash our dishes in order to have a

[23:09] direct experience of what our life is in

[23:12] that moment of doing something even as m

[23:15] mundane as washing dishes. To feel the

[23:18] temperature of the water, the contour of

[23:20] the cup or the fork or the spoon, the

[23:24] silkiness of the, you know, soap suds or

[23:26] whatever.

[23:28] We in our conceptualized mind and

[23:31] thinking, we just numb out. We make an

[23:34] immediate judgment that that's not

[23:36] really worth my attention. And what are

[23:38] we saying? That's not my life.

[23:42] I'm at a point in life where when I, you

[23:45] know, I look in the rearview mirror and

[23:46] there's way more road than there is when

[23:49] I look through the windshield. Nothing

[23:51] is to be wasted. But you don't have to

[23:54] wait to be my age to wake up and realize

[23:56] you don't want to numb out. Right? This

[23:59] sense of immediiacy is part and parcel

[24:02] of having our direct experience.

[24:05] Um,

[24:07] how am I doing on time? Pretty good. Um,

[24:11] so here's another one. Ziaho asked a

[24:13] newly arrived monk, "Have you been here

[24:16] before?" The monk said, "No, master."

[24:18] Ziao said, "Go have some tea."

[24:21] He then asked another monk, "Have you

[24:23] been here before?" That monk said, "Yes,

[24:25] I have." Xiao Xiao. And yes, I have. And

[24:28] Xiao Xiao said, "Go have some tea." The

[24:31] monastery director said, "Master, you

[24:33] told the one who hadn't been here to

[24:35] drink tea, and you told the one who had

[24:38] been here to go drink tea. Why do you

[24:40] give them the same answer?" Xiao Xiao

[24:43] looked at him and said, "Director,

[24:46] go have some tea."

[24:47] >> [laughter]

[24:49] >> So, you know, there's a lot that is to

[24:52] be unpacked in all of these. You know,

[24:54] this one, I think, particularly points

[24:56] to non-discrimination.

[24:57] Xiao Xiao is not going to treat the

[24:59] newcomer versus the person who is just

[25:02] just uh who has been here before in a

[25:05] different way. And it's not even going

[25:06] to treat the quote unquote, you know, uh

[25:09] director in a different way. And what is

[25:12] that to go have tea, right? Instead of

[25:14] having instruction, go have tea and

[25:18] taste something and and experience your

[25:21] life. Experience your life through all

[25:24] your senses. Right. Um

[25:28] just a few more. A monk asked and this I

[25:31] I know this has traveled around through

[25:33] several people already in the the uh

[25:35] practice period. A monk asked what is

[25:38] the practice hall like our our Zeno

[25:40] right where we sit. The master said from

[25:43] the practice hall you have come from the

[25:45] practice hall you will go everything

[25:48] everywhere is the practice hall there is

[25:52] no other place

[25:55] so this is particularly I think

[25:56] pertinent for those of us in Zen who are

[26:01] inclined to think you know with all of

[26:02] these beautiful you know this beautiful

[26:05] form and altars and Buddhas all around

[26:09] that I need to be a particular place in

[26:11] in order to practice. But wherever our

[26:14] foot hits the ground, that's our

[26:17] practice hall, right? Everything

[26:19] non-duality.

[26:21] Don't just think because you're here

[26:22] this evening that you're practicing.

[26:25] When you get in your car, when you go,

[26:28] you know, shopping, stand in line at the

[26:31] uh express checkout lane and somebody

[26:34] has 20 items in their basket versus 15.

[26:38] Everywhere is practice.

[26:40] And similarly um uh another one a monk

[26:45] asked what is meditation? The master

[26:47] said it is not meditation. The monk said

[26:51] why is it not meditation? The master

[26:54] said it's alive. It's alive.

[26:58] See the minute that we label something

[27:00] we tend to deaden it. we tend to make it

[27:04] small to fit this preconceived idea that

[27:07] we have this story of what meditation

[27:10] is. And so these coons are trying to

[27:13] just really shake us up and help us to

[27:16] come and really settle in and sink below

[27:18] the surface. And it's really really

[27:21] hard. Not only, you know, the proof that

[27:23] I tried to demonstrate in terms of

[27:26] Dogen's own process of of tying himself

[27:29] up in ropes, but you know, we're born

[27:31] into these human bodies, human minds,

[27:35] and this is our biggest way of

[27:36] communicating with each other. And as I

[27:39] said, words are very beautiful.

[27:42] Gorgeous things happen out of words.

[27:43] Poetry, stories, beautiful

[27:45] conversations, great explanations,

[27:48] right? great understanding of all the

[27:51] wonderful diverse areas of life, but

[27:54] they also really can be very very

[27:56] limiting. And the problem is that we

[28:00] become so habituated in a way in if when

[28:04] this is not examined, we have these

[28:07] ideas, these words run through our heads

[28:10] as ideas and concepts that become fixed

[28:14] and then we think that they're true when

[28:17] the rest of the world is alive and all

[28:19] around us offering us something so

[28:22] fresh, so different,

[28:25] so rich,

[28:27] so much bomb so much bomb to where our

[28:31] conceptual mind goes. Kathy and I are on

[28:34] the back side of the um library and with

[28:38] her help I have started a meditation of

[28:41] just looking out at these beautiful

[28:42] yellow trees right this fall the light

[28:46] the way it changes over the course of a

[28:48] day the um the way that the leaves are

[28:51] changing how there are fewer and fewer

[28:52] of them every day just having a direct

[28:55] experience of that is so refreshing neur

[28:59] neurologically I think it's very

[29:01] refreshing when we do is I think this is

[29:03] why we find so much respit and and

[29:06] refuge in nature because it's offering

[29:08] us something whole and something as

[29:11] quite a radical um

[29:14] difference and option to our

[29:17] conceptualized discursive thinking and

[29:20] it's just beautiful to look at that as

[29:23] opposed to doom scrolling right

[29:27] um and and sometimes the the coons can

[29:30] have a shock value Right. So the in a

[29:33] certain way these can be well you know

[29:34] the the the shouting or striking that I

[29:37] I mentioned they can can occur. So um I

[29:41] I couldn't find a really um uh

[29:44] stridident one from from Xiaou. I think

[29:46] Xiao tends to be and and I'll defer to

[29:49] to Kathy and Shinszan to maybe explain

[29:51] this and talk about it later but I think

[29:54] Xiaoa was a different sort of person

[29:56] than these you know hardcore maybe macho

[29:59] type of of cho masters. I think he had

[30:02] well one he lived to be very old. He

[30:04] lived to be 120 years old. So he had a

[30:07] lot of practice but I think his

[30:08] temperament was quite quite different.

[30:11] He was very happy to live in a very

[30:13] rather forlororn monastery. He had he

[30:16] was very happy to live with his teacher

[30:17] and practice with his teacher for almost

[30:20] 40 years. He was very happy to settle in

[30:23] to intimacy and into authenticity.

[30:27] Right. Um so at any rate but this is an

[30:30] example of kind of a shock cohan. This

[30:32] is human who follows um uh um Xiaoa by

[30:36] by some years. A student says to uh

[30:39] human, what is Buddha? And human says a

[30:43] shitstick.

[30:46] That's pretty shocking.

[30:48] [laughter]

[30:48] I'm going to take some of your silence

[30:50] as being shocked. You know what does

[30:52] that mean? Why would a master say

[30:54] something like that? How does it land on

[30:56] you?

[30:57] beyond your immediate response of oh

[31:00] gross or disgusting or whatever what's

[31:03] there what's there you know zen is not

[31:06] about

[31:08] knowledge although some knowledge can

[31:10] help words can help it creates kind of a

[31:13] scaffolding around us to get us started

[31:15] and then at some point we have to break

[31:17] the scaffolding down and push it away

[31:21] zen is not a noun zen is a verb

[31:25] the way is not something we can capture

[31:28] and understand and graduate to. It is a

[31:32] way of being. One of one of the best

[31:36] definitions I have come across

[31:40] um actually does not come from a Zen

[31:44] master but comes from uh Winnott who was

[31:46] a child psychologist and talking about

[31:49] the early years of being a child and how

[31:52] we want to as adults return to the state

[31:55] of being he says what we're returning to

[31:58] is this uninterrupted flow of authentic

[32:02] self

[32:04] and And I think that's what this direct

[32:06] experience is. I think that's what Zen

[32:09] and Coons are pointing us toward. How

[32:12] can we have this uninterrupted flow

[32:17] of authentic self without all the layers

[32:20] of conceptualization?

[32:24] Um, so but but to bring Xiao Xiao into

[32:26] the conversation on potentially a little

[32:29] shock value, he was asked by a student,

[32:32] what is the what is the spiritual? To

[32:35] which he replies, a puddle of piss in

[32:38] the pure land. And then the student

[32:41] goes, um, wait, I ask you to reveal it

[32:45] this to me. And Zia, says, don't tempt

[32:49] me.

[32:50] >> [laughter]

[32:51] >> So, he had a wonderful sense of humor,

[32:53] but also like let's get real. You could

[32:56] have a direct experience momentarily if

[32:58] you're if you're not careful. Um, what

[33:01] time are we going to end? 6:30. Um, Jim.

[33:04] Yeah. Okay.

[33:06] So um

[33:09] this this invitation, this timehonored

[33:12] invitation

[33:14] which certainly arrives and and is um

[33:18] manifested and articulated in a certain

[33:21] way in the Chan period is still this

[33:25] invitation that we have right now right

[33:27] here in 2026

[33:31] Santa Fe or wherever our dear friends in

[33:34] the Maha Sanga are across the world,

[33:39] you know, and I think that Dogen

[33:41] captures it in his coan, which is a

[33:44] longer coan, this wonderful and

[33:46] beautiful fasacle called the Ganjo Coan.

[33:50] And if you haven't read that, I do

[33:53] highly recommend that you read that.

[33:54] It's or better yet, have somebody read

[33:56] it to you. It's just just a beautiful

[33:58] piece. But Dogen says when you find your

[34:02] place

[34:04] where you are practice occurs

[34:07] actualizing the fundamental point that

[34:10] you are in that moment you are in

[34:12] complete connection with that moment.

[34:15] When practice occurs,

[34:17] when you find yourself in this place,

[34:20] wherever that place is, practice occurs,

[34:23] actualizing this fundamental point to

[34:26] get out of the head to, you know, to to

[34:29] to actually sink into this broader and

[34:33] fuller experience of just being here

[34:35] right now. Somebody earlier, I think it

[34:38] was in the u the ENSO that we had with

[34:41] the online people, somebody said, you

[34:43] know, their way of expressing it is just

[34:46] relax just as it is. Just as it is. And

[34:50] these are all dharma gates to freedom.

[34:54] They hold up a mirror so that we get to

[34:57] see what's our reaction to that, right?

[35:01] How does that feel? Why do I feel that?

[35:04] What's the word? What's the turning

[35:05] phrase in that I cannot understand or

[35:08] grasp this but is there something

[35:10] in there that resonates for me? What is

[35:13] that? You don't have to take the whole

[35:14] thing on, right? You can take it on bit

[35:17] by bit.

[35:19] Um, I want to just take uh these last

[35:21] few moments to to offer uh a a slightly

[35:25] different perspective on coons. And this

[35:29] comes directly from my own teacher

[35:32] Darlene Cohen. and um from from her

[35:36] practice. And at the end of her life uh

[35:39] as she was dying, she wanted to

[35:42] summarize for us the things that she

[35:44] thought were the most important and

[35:46] helpful tools that would help us all in

[35:49] this process of finding our authentic

[35:52] life and becoming intimate with it. Hi

[35:54] Lyn.

[35:56] Um and she loved coons and I think maybe

[36:00] the fox coan was her favorite. But what

[36:03] she really really loved and what she

[36:04] brought to us was a different slightly

[36:07] different version of these, but she

[36:08] called them personal coons. Right? And

[36:12] let me read you the the how she would

[36:14] introduce it to us. And this is a quote

[36:16] from a uh a master

[36:20] uh Wooin from 1040 who lived 1043 to 11

[36:24] uh 14. So uh moving into the song

[36:27] dynasty but eminent monks eminent people

[36:34] investigate what's right under your

[36:37] feet. Contemplate it. Get to the bottom

[36:40] of it. What is the truth of it? Keep

[36:43] investigating and investigating.

[36:46] Suddenly the mind flower will send forth

[36:48] light shining through all the worlds in

[36:51] the 10 directions. Then it can be said

[36:53] that when decisive insight is attained

[36:56] from mind, it responds readily at hand.

[37:00] After that, you will be able to

[37:01] transform the earth into gold and turn

[37:04] the rivers into clarified butter. How

[37:06] could you not be content and happy for

[37:09] life? But I love this um this um

[37:14] exhorting us to investigate what's right

[37:17] beneath our feet. So if you find that

[37:20] the the the the coons from the chan

[37:23] masters don't necessarily resonate, just

[37:27] turn to right here, right now in terms

[37:29] of what is going on for you.

[37:32] Do you find that you're particularly

[37:34] absur uh upset about something? Not to

[37:38] find the answer. Right? The is not

[37:41] about trying to make 1 + 1 equal two.

[37:44] What's going on? What is it? What is

[37:48] this thing?

[37:49] You know, Zen is exhorting us to look

[37:52] more deeply, to feel more deeply, not to

[37:56] try and just jump at something from the

[37:59] mind and say, "There, I've got it." To

[38:03] actually really allow ourselves to be

[38:05] permeated by it. For myself, and I

[38:09] didn't know that this was my until

[38:11] she told me that it was. Um, my was

[38:15] was fear.

[38:17] I had grown up in a particular

[38:19] environment where being young, fear was

[38:22] actually a reasonable and a smart

[38:24] response. But by the time you get to be

[38:27] 20 or 30 or so, living from that type of

[38:30] a place that is habituated,

[38:32] right? You don't see a difference.

[38:35] Things haven't changed. It doesn't

[38:37] really serve you anymore, right? And so

[38:39] she said to me, you know, you don't have

[38:42] to be so fearful. And I was completely

[38:45] at a loss. And I said, "I'm not fearful.

[38:49] I was extremely competent. I was able to

[38:52] navigate my life very, very fluidly."

[38:55] And she said, "You hide behind your

[38:57] competence. You hide your fear behind

[39:00] your competence. That's how you navigate

[39:03] your life. That's how you're able to

[39:04] manage interactions with people, right?"

[39:09] And she set me on a course of about a

[39:11] year of asking and paying attention

[39:14] largely through my own sense reactions,

[39:18] putting my hand on the doororknob before

[39:20] I walk into a room where I don't know

[39:21] people or equally fearful sometimes

[39:25] where I did know the people. What is

[39:27] this? Why do I feel this way? Why does

[39:30] fear come up? Is that so? You know, it

[39:34] served me at one point, but decades

[39:36] later, do I still need to live this way?

[39:40] How can I find my freedom from all of

[39:42] this? So, just a small option if you are

[39:45] are at all interested and uh finding

[39:49] that maybe you want to turn toward a

[39:52] different way of working with coants.

[39:54] Take something up in your own life.

[39:56] Maybe noticing how your mind habitually

[39:58] goes to I don't like that or the world

[40:02] is unfair or we'll never get out of

[40:05] this.

[40:06] Right? I'll never be loved. I'll never

[40:09] find somebody to love. It can manifest

[40:12] in all kinds of ways. Turn toward that

[40:15] and take that on as your

[40:18] Meanwhile, I thank you for your kind

[40:20] attention.

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Frequently Asked Questions

In this talk, Sensei Ryotan Cynthia Kear dates the Chan period roughly to 600 to 900 CE, a time of both high Chinese culture and serious political upheaval. Buddhism arrived in China from India along the Silk Roads during this era and met Confucianism and Daoism, which gave Chan its distinctive emphasis on direct experience.
Sensei Kear reads Suzuki Roshi, who says that sharing the feeling we have right here right now is the fundamental thing for Zen practice. The idea is to be present with people, trees, and mountains without the constant commentary of ice cream lists, news, and ads that fill the mind.
Sensei Kear explains, drawing on Thomas Merton, that Zen resists being easily communicable and aims to blast the foundation of ready explanation out from under the student. The shouts were meant to break the habit of assuming one already knows what life is. She says she will not strike her own students.
Sensei Kear describes the human mind as one that loves words, stories, and concepts, which produces many gifts but can also block direct experience. Zen practice paradoxically uses words, through koans and teaching stories, to loosen the grip that words have on the mind.
Sensei Kear says that thinking about our life is not the same as being inside it. She describes feeling like she was pressing her nose against the window pane of her real life, rehearsing the past and future instead of living the present.
Sensei Kear cites Joan Sutherland's book Through the Forests of Every Color: Awakening with Koans, which she says she has come to deeply love. Sutherland describes life as shaped like wondering, and the talk uses her description of aching questions and a more spacious, at-ease world to show that the Chan questions are our questions too.
Based on this talk, begin by noticing how much of your day you spend narrating experience rather than living it. Notice the moment you turn an experience into a story about it, and let that moment be an opening rather than a judgment.

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