Transcript
[0:07] Hey there and welcome to the Marie Forleo
Podcast.
[0:10] It’s me, Marie.
[0:12] And my guest today is my dear friend, Danielle
LaPorte.
[0:15] Now, if you don't know D already I’m gonna
tell you about her right now.
[0:19] Danielle is an invited member of Oprah’s
Super Soul 100, a group who, in Oprah’s
[0:24] words, is uniquely connecting the world together
with a spiritual energy that matters.
[0:29] Danielle is the author of several books including
her latest, White Hot Truth: Clarity For Keeping
[0:34] it Real On Your Spiritual Path from One Seeker
to Another.
[0:38] You may also know her from her previous books
like The Firestarter Sessions and The Desire
[0:43] Map: A Guide to Creating Goals With Soul.
[0:46] That book has been translated into eight languages,
evolved into a yearly day planner system,
[0:51] a top 10 iTunes app, and an international
workshop program with licensed facilitators
[0:56] in 15 countries.
[0:58] Named one of the top 100 websites for women
by Forbes, millions of visitors go to DanielleLaPorte.com
[1:04] every month for her daily truth bombs and
what’s been called the best place online
[1:09] for kickass spirituality.
[1:10] Now, I do wanna say before we go into the
conversation that this conversation is an
[1:15] adult conversation.
[1:17] So you will hear some language that is not
appropriate for little ones.
[1:21] So if you have little ones around, please
put on your headphones.
[1:24] And if that kind of adult language offends
you, this may be a podcast you want to skip.
[1:29] And with that, let’s get into the conversation.
[1:33] Danielle LaPorte, welcome to the Marie Forleo
Podcast, woman!
[1:36] Marie, Marie.
[1:37] We are together.
[1:38] We are together once again.
[1:40] Many years.
[1:41] Many different adventures.
[1:43] So I just want to congratulate you.
[1:45] Your new book is called White Hot Truth: Clarity
for Keeping it Real on Your Spiritual Path
[1:51] from One Seeker to Another.
[1:53] So tell me, my love.
[1:54] What inspired you to write this book?
[1:56] Why this message and why right now?
[1:58] Well, first of all, I want to say.
[2:00] I want to make you a ringtone because the
way you say the subtitle is perfect.
[2:05] “Keeping it real.”
[2:07] Okay, why did I write it?
[2:11] I was exhausted.
[2:13] I felt like when I looked at my calendar that
everything that I was supposed to be holding
[2:19] dear to me about growing and deepening and
esoterics and meditation and being at one
[2:25] with my body and the universe had really just
become a to do list.
[2:30] And I could see the same kind of fatigue around
me in the women I was speaking to and my girlfriends
[2:39] and I hit the wall.
[2:43] I hit the wall of self improvement.
[2:44] I got tired of trying to be better at getting
better.
[2:50] Goodness gracious.
[2:51] You know, we had a MarieTV not too long ago
where someone was asking me if it’s like
[2:55] okay to take a break with self improvement.
[2:57] And I was like “oh, hell yeah.
[2:59] Sometimes the best self improvement is realizing
you don't really need to be improved.
[3:03] You’ve just gotta live.”
[3:05] So one of the things that I love that I highlighted
in your book, many, many things, you said
[3:11] “all the woo is keeping us from dealing
with our poo.
[3:15] And that fulfilment stems from our motives.
[3:17] It’s not how we speak – we seek spiritual
growth.
[3:21] It’s why we seek it in the first place.”
[3:23] What does that mean to you?
[3:25] That’s everything.
[3:26] It’s like that’s the heartbeat of all
of this.
[3:29] I think, first of all, for myself I have no
judgment around how someone is trying to be
[3:37] better.
[3:38] Like, you can go to Bible study, you can go
to soul cycle and spin your ass off, you can
[3:45] hit the yoga mat, you can pray.
[3:48] Whatever it is.
[3:49] So many paths I think we’re all headed in
the same direction.
[3:54] But it’s about the motivation.
[3:57] And so for me, motivation is this external
thing.
[4:01] Inspiration is an internal pull and push.
[4:04] It’s this dynamic.
[4:06] So it’s about trying to please people.
[4:10] It’s about getting approval from whoever
you call God.
[4:14] I thought because having been raised Catholic,
which Jesus is still – I was just Instagramming
[4:22] about this over Easter – Jesus is still
my homeboy.
[4:26] Christianity is still part of my quilt.
[4:30] But I thought what I had done was I survived
Catholic school, I let go of all the repression
[4:36] and the oppression that I felt from organized
religion, and I thought I had freed myself
[4:41] up, that there was some kind of liberation
happening.
[4:42] Because, you know, I was like so progressive
and sexually liberated.
[4:46] But really I had just replaced that male deity
authority in the sky with some other authority,
[4:55] which I came to call the cosmic council.
[4:58] And the cosmic council looks like way hipper.
[5:00] The cosmic council is like into tantra, cosmic
council smokes a little bit of weed, it looks
[5:06] great in black, stretchy yoga pants.
[5:09] But still, wanting to be good, wanting to
be okay.
[5:14] “Am I pure enough, am I clean enough, am
I fit enough, am I tolerant enough, am I compassionate
[5:23] – am I meditating right, am I doing – am
I praying in the best possible way?”
[5:29] So there was still this striving.
[5:31] And the striving I could see in other parts
of my life.
[5:33] I mean, the last book, Desire Map, was all
about letting go of that striving and coming
[5:40] at your goals from a heart centered place.
[5:42] Yes.
[5:43] But I really hadn’t seen the subtleties
of the striving was there still, really on
[5:48] my spiritual path.
[5:50] And the woo and the poo question has everything
to do with what’s called spiritual bypassing.
[5:57] And this is such a sexy monaker, I wish I
would’ve come up with it.
[6:01] But spiritual bypassing is basically when
you’re using all of the nice, harmonious,
[6:09] esoteric stuff.
[6:10] Harmony and tolerance and goodness and all
of that, to not deal with the ugly, messy,
[6:17] scary, bitchy, unforgiving, anxiety-riddled
stuff about being human.
[6:24] But if you don't deal with that, you don't
deal with that poo, then obviously you don't
[6:30] grow, you don't get whole, and you don't get
what you want, which is access to your power.
[6:37] You know, I really resonate in terms of all
of this striving.
[6:40] And what you remarked upon when it comes to
Desire Map, which, by the way, was brilliant.
[6:45] Another brilliant piece of work of yours.
[6:47] That I think it’s also a reflection of where
we are at right now in culture and society
[6:55] when it comes to technology, and specifically
social media.
[7:00] And people Instagramming every goddamn moment
of their life.
[7:03] “I’m in my yoga pants, I’m doing my
ritual, I’ve got my altar.”
[7:08] And it’s like, really?
[7:09] Just put it down for a minute.
[7:12] So many of us, and this is natural.
[7:14] Right?
[7:15] This is the human brain.
[7:16] Can just get swept away in comparison.
[7:19] And it’s just such a great mechanism to
really deepen those roots of striving.
[7:25] Like you’re not keeping up, you’re not
where you should be by now.
[7:28] And in your lens it was not sure if you’re
pleasing the cosmic council, which I love.
[7:34] But this idea of letting go of the striving
and letting go of the woo, which, you know,
[7:40] I’m a girl who can get into woo from every
now and again.
[7:43] But you do have to deal with the tough stuff
underneath and it ain’t cute.
[7:48] And like crystals and chants and pray – it
doesn't go away.
[7:51] You’ve gotta like hang out there for a little
bit and let it be messy and let it be gross
[7:55] and let yourself be as judgmental and angry
and upset as you need to be in that moment
[8:02] before you can move through it.
[8:04] So I am just ... I’m so excited about this
book.
[8:06] I laughed so many times throughout the whole
thing, laugh out loud moments.
[8:11] And one of the parts that had me howling,
because I too share this, my love, is when
[8:16] you remarked that sometimes you get so sick
of seeing your own shit online.
[8:22] Can you tell me about that?
[8:24] It’s tricky because we’re in this business.
[8:29] And my prosperity is directly linked to my
visibility.
[8:36] So I have to hustle.
[8:38] And then I’m a natural communicator.
[8:41] I love these tools, although I would say if
I wasn’t in this space I don't know if I
[8:47] would be on Facebook.
[8:48] I would actually just call my friends.
[8:49] But I love Instagram.
[8:51] And sometimes, yeah, I think expanding the
reach of social media and getting on yet another
[9:00] platform, my girls right now really want me
to get into Instagram stories.
[9:03] I’m just like, “Really?
[9:05] Really?
[9:06] How much of me can people tolerate?
[9:08] Like, do I have to?”
[9:10] I have got nothing – my life is not that
exciting.
[9:13] I mean, I’m either on the road, which is
super glamorous and awesome and exhausting,
[9:17] or I’m home living this really quiet, writerly,
mom, clean life.
[9:25] Right?
[9:26] Yes.
[9:27] And also, I have my own internal cringe and
wince mechanism also known as discernment.
[9:37] And when I see so much stuff out there that
is filtered down, watered down, sacred teachings
[9:46] put into sound bites, that I think the people
who are putting them into sound bites and
[9:50] making them into pretty graphics really have
no idea how deep and sacred the teachings
[9:55] are.
[9:56] I see so much stuff that is ripped off.
[9:58] I see so many stories that are called, you
know, that you could call the, you know, your
[10:06] speaker story.
[10:09] Everybody in the marketing business tells
you, you need your sob speaker story.
[10:13] Oh, the rags to riches story, right?
[10:15] Where you’re just, you’re on your knees...
[10:17] Tell us how you were in pain, how to make
yourself more relatable.
[10:20] And there’s lots of things that are getting
blown up into these painful, dark night of
[10:25] the soul stories.
[10:27] And I just want to say, “you know what?
[10:28] I’m sorry.
[10:29] I don't think that was a dark night.
[10:31] Who am I to judge?
[10:32] But I don't think that was a dark night of
your soul.
[10:34] That’s just called being in your 20s and
getting through it.”
[10:39] And if you ... and you can still be a contribution
and a voice of inspiration and you still have
[10:46] so much to offer if you haven’t suffered,
if you haven’t been crucified as a spiritual
[10:51] leader and minister.
[10:52] You still have goodness to give to the world.
[10:55] It’s what you're always saying.
[10:57] Somebody needs to hear the story that you’ve
got to tell.
[11:00] Yes.
[11:01] In the exact way and from your voice.
[11:02] Yeah.
[11:03] Keep going, sorry.
[11:05] Stop dramatizing it and calling yourself a
spiritual teacher.
[11:09] And yeah.
[11:12] And that’s ironic.
[11:13] I’m here being really judgmental about the
dogma and at the same time, the same time,
[11:19] I’m really clear that you never know what
somebody’s journey is.
[11:24] You don't know if the guy who is picking up
your garbage in the alley is actually living
[11:32] some really high vibration, Buddhist level
life.
[11:38] You just don't know.
[11:39] So I’m on my soapbox, but I have a pretty
open heart about all of it too.
[11:45] Well, let’s talk about the fact, because
you wrote about this too.
[11:48] And you and I have had private conversations
about this topic.
[11:51] And I think this is important to hear for
every creative out there who makes stuff.
[11:56] And whether their particular craft is writing
or design or music or art, I’ve heard you
[12:02] say sometimes you’ll look back at your own
stuff and cringe.
[12:05] And like, “Did I really say that?
[12:07] Really?
[12:08] I need to sit down.”
[12:09] And I will tell you that too, because that’s
part of my struggle.
[12:13] Sometimes people say, “Oh, my gosh.
[12:14] Marie, what about your earlier stuff?”
[12:15] And I say I leave it up for the very reason
that I want people who are just starting out
[12:21] and just starting to put their voice out into
the world to not compare where they’re at
[12:24] right now with what we have going on at this
point in the game 17 years in.
[12:30] And I can look at stuff I wrote or published,
gosh, last week and go, “Really, Marie?
[12:36] You need some growth.
[12:37] Girl, you need some growth.”
[12:38] I’m with you.
[12:41] You know, I want to burn everything I’ve
ever written before like last week.
[12:47] Like ... could we just start that?
[12:49] Could we do that ... just like take it down?
[12:51] And, I mean, mostly the cringe factor is I’m
just like, “Oh, that was a little harsh.”
[12:59] And, “Oh, can’t believe I didn't mention,”
you know.
[13:01] And here’s where I’m at with it.
[13:05] I was doing the best I could do at the time.
[13:09] My intentions have always been good.
[13:12] Always approaching things from a place of
I want to be expressed, I want to be loving,
[13:17] I want to be of service.
[13:19] And that may meet someone exactly where they
are at the time.
[13:24] I mean, some day this – I can see the day
coming.
[13:27] Maybe 20 years from now I’m gonna renounce
everything I ever wrote.
[13:31] And say “I was wrong, I was so wrong.
[13:33] It’s not about desire.
[13:35] It’s not about truth.”
[13:37] But yeah, and you know what?
[13:38] This is also part of being committed to being
a maker and being of service and having the
[13:45] – what should I call – I don't want to
say the tough skin.
[13:48] I don't like that phrase.
[13:50] But you know like the entrepreneurial maturity
that you just keep going.
[13:56] You just say…
[13:57] Yes.
[13:58] And I don't -- I think this is potentially
useful for people to hear.
[14:03] So it’s like things are prosperous enough
now, been at it long enough now, have a really
[14:10] A+ team now that we’ve got a certain kind
of production value going on.
[14:17] And somebody asked me last week, “with your
kind of numbers and when you get on and do
[14:21] a Facebook live, do you feel nervous?
[14:24] And it doesn't even …” no.
[14:25] It doesn't even occur to me.
[14:27] I’m totally stoked to be there, I feel really
lit up, I always feel honored, and I don't
[14:35] even think twice about it.
[14:38] However, I never, almost never.
[14:42] Once in awhile, very rarely.
[14:43] I never watch my videos.
[14:45] I never listen to a podcast.
[14:48] I can hardly stand to see pictures of myself
from speaking gigs.
[14:53] Because for two reasons.
[14:54] I just like I can’t believe I wore that
… and I just have to move on.
[15:01] I know I’m gonna criticize what I said.
[15:04] I know I’m – then I’m gonna start thinking
about market approval and audience appreciation.
[15:09] Don't even want to go there because it hems
me in from creating.
[15:14] So I just take a deep breath and I just say
I’m gonna give ‘er tomorrow.
[15:20] MoveOn.org.
[15:21] It’s a nonprofit.
[15:22] So speaking of MoveOn.org, let’s talk about
the lies we fall for on the way to our truth.
[15:30] I really loved this part of the book.
[15:32] You say, “the lie of inadequacy says you
were born defective, not good enough, flawed.
[15:39] The lie of authority says you need someone
else to validate your worth and your choices.
[15:45] And the lie of affiliation says group think
is good think.”
[15:49] Let’s talk about these lies because I think
all of us have fallen for them and probably
[15:56] will again on our journeys.
[15:57] I think these lies are like they’re in the
water we drink.
[16:02] They’re in most advertising messages, they
are – they infiltrate every organized religion,
[16:10] they seep through our educational system,
it’s the heart of comparison.
[16:16] These are the sources of being really fucked
up.
[16:20] And the lie of inadequacy starts really young
for some of us.
[16:27] There’s a right way and a wrong way.
[16:30] There’s a right answer and a wrong answer
at school, at home, in church.
[16:36] There – it’s a generational thing.
[16:38] This has been going on for eons.
[16:41] “I, your mother, father want to look awesome
so I’m going to brainwash you into how you
[16:46] should live.”
[16:47] And I’m all for brain – I mean, I’m
brainwashing my kid into how I think he should
[16:50] live.
[16:51] But basically it’s you’ve gotta be better.
[16:55] You were born probably a little behind the
8-ball.
[16:58] It’s all – it’s the striving.
[17:00] It’s the striving.
[17:01] It’s the striving.
[17:02] And I’m here to say anybody who is relating
to this right now, the prayer is that you're
[17:09] gonna find that you are more than adequate.
[17:14] You are substance, you are beauty, you are
magnificence.
[17:19] And if you don't believe yourself right now
then there are times when you just have to
[17:23] believe another person.
[17:26] And call your friend, call your loving mother,
or just believe Marie and I right now.
[17:31] You are substance, you are magnificent, you
were born on the right side.
[17:38] Ecstasy is your birthright.
[17:40] All that.
[17:42] The lie of authority is really profound and
super perverse.
[17:51] And it’s this simple.
[17:52] So everybody just like hear this with an open
mind so you can hear how ludicrous this is.
[18:00] It’s the notion that someone other than
you who is not in your body, in your soul,
[18:07] in your life actually knows what is best for
you.
[18:10] Somebody else knows what’s best for you.
[18:15] This is insane and absurd.
[18:18] And it doesn't mean that you don't turn to
a guru or a friend or life coach.
[18:23] But at the end of the day, it’s your call.
[18:26] And the more you make that call with what
your body is telling you and your spirit is
[18:31] telling you – and maybe even market status
and standards – the stronger you get.
[18:38] The clearer your intuition gets, the more
often you will hear your inner voice, the
[18:44] less anxiety you will have.
[18:46] All decisions, buck stops with you.
[18:49] Has to.
[18:50] Go get input.
[18:51] You make the final call.
[18:52] Yes.
[18:53] Oh, I can say an amen to that and we are recording
this on a Sunday, so it all works.
[18:59] It all works.
[19:00] It all works.
[19:01] But that for me is one of the biggest things.
[19:03] Because I always feel this deep sense of responsibility,
you know, doing what we do with MarieTV and
[19:10] now with the Podcast.
[19:11] It’s like I will come across literally thousands
and thousands of questions, and the way I’m
[19:17] wired, I’m always excited to offer ideas
or resources or examples or frames of reference
[19:23] or perspectives that my hope will help someone
find their truth.
[19:30] I always like to talk about this because I
feel like especially doing what we do in this
[19:34] world of self development and human potential
and growth, the one thing I like to say it’s
[19:42] like, “look, I’m on the journey with you.
[19:44] I don't have your answers.
[19:46] I’m just here hoping to put out a few ideas
and concepts and questions so you can find
[19:52] yours.”
[19:53] And I think that that’s a really, really
important thing that everyone needs to remember.
[19:57] It’s like they are the authority, the top
authority, on their life.
[20:02] And they always have the answers within.
[20:05] That one’s one of my favorites.
[20:06] Let’s talk about the live affiliation and
this whole groupthink thing, because this
[20:10] is happening a lot right now.
[20:12] All over the place.
[20:13] Just think high school.
[20:14] Yes.
[20:15] Think high school in the new age movement.
[20:18] And the reason why I think this one is so
important in this context of personal development
[20:24] and human potential is because this is the
lie that is the hardest to see.
[20:29] It’s the most insidious.
[20:31] Because everything in this space rightfully
or wrongfully so, some of it’s true, some
[20:37] of it isn’t, is positioned as freedom and
self empowerment and self agency and making
[20:44] your own choices.
[20:45] And you are your own guru.
[20:47] Right?
[20:48] And that’s all awesome.
[20:49] And that’s the soapbox I’m on.
[20:51] But some of it is darkly motivated.
[20:55] And a lot of that dark motivation, and by
– let me define dark for a second.
[21:01] Dark is I’m gonna suck your light.
[21:06] Dark is I actually need your approval.
[21:09] Dark is I need you to believe in me, so I’m
going to enroll you and entrain you and maybe
[21:15] hypnotize you to do that.
[21:16] And a great way to hypnotize people and to
get them to not think for themselves happens
[21:22] in a group context.
[21:25] And we’ve – we’ve all been there.
[21:27] You have to do this.
[21:28] You have to do – it’s part of your initiation
to waking up and being able to hear yourself
[21:34] is being in the group and your body is saying
this totally creeps me out.
[21:41] Yes.
[21:42] You feel that hot ... you’re getting a little
hot and, you know, flustered in the negative
[21:47] way.
[21:48] But everyone else is sharing.
[21:52] Everybody else is gonna stand up and give
their deep, dark secrets in front of thousands
[21:57] of people on a microphone with a camera on.
[22:00] “I’m sex positive.
[22:03] I’m not sex negative.
[22:04] I’m not a prude.
[22:06] I’m gonna try this out.
[22:10] Because I want to be liberated, I wanna be”
– and, you know what?
[22:15] Sometimes the most life affirming thing to
do, the most liberating thing to do, is say
[22:21] I am not down with this.
[22:23] And you get to think I’m narrow minded,
you can actually think I’m a prude, I’m
[22:28] not courageous, I’m unforgiving.
[22:34] You spiritual people can actually think I’m
not spiritual, but I’m a no for this and
[22:41] I’m walking away.
[22:42] And that, that may be your – the very initiation
that you went to the workshop for.
[22:48] That’s you standing up for yourself.
[22:51] Yes.
[22:52] And you know me, momma.
[22:53] I am big on the no train.
[22:54] I mean, it’s a different context but, I
will say, I’m very proud of myself because
[22:57] sometimes I have found myself in some of those
circles.
[23:00] You know, you fall for it earlier in your
life, or at least I did.
[23:04] But as time goes on and experience starts
to build, sometimes I will find myself in
[23:09] these conversations.
[23:10] It’s like, “No, no, no.
[23:11] This is the way.”
[23:12] I’m like, “Nuh-uh.
[23:13] Not for this sister.
[23:14] Not for me.
[23:15] I’m going the opposite way.”
[23:16] Because that thing just doesn't feel right.
[23:18] Okay, let's talk now about something else
I loved, again, another highlight moment.
[23:24] This distinction between being a super human
versus trying to be superhuman.
[23:31] I’ll tell you, this is all about comparison.
[23:38] So thinking about this in context to our friends.
[23:43] Right?
[23:44] So it’s like Gabby.
[23:45] For anyone who doesn't know, Gabby Bernstein
is part of the posse.
[23:49] Gabby has gone without sugar for almost two
years.
[23:52] And I’m just like how can you do that?
[23:55] You haven’t even had ketchup.
[23:57] So it got me going like maybe I should go
on this sugar cleanse and I should not – and
[24:02] then Kris Carr, another bestie, one of the
world’s most devoted, educating vegans.
[24:10] So every time I open the fridge I feel guilty
because I’m not a vegan.
[24:14] And then I have friends who are like meditating
for hours at a time and I’m just like, “is
[24:18] my 20 minutes every morning of meditation
good enough?”
[24:21] And it just becomes this comparison.
[24:23] It’s like we’re all on our own journey,
we have our own karma, our own dharma, and
[24:32] my most so-called enlightened moments have
been my most human moments of just crying
[24:40] with all of you guys, just being friends.
[24:45] And having a cigarette and a green smoothie
if I needed to.
[24:49] Yes.
[24:50] And that my 20 minutes of meditation – I’m
bringing all of myself, I’m doing the best
[24:58] I can as a mostly single mom, as a highly
functioning entrepreneur.
[25:05] This is what I’ve got to give.
[25:07] And this is what’s heartbreaking about being
in this space as well as a so called expert
[25:17] or a public personality is when somebody comes
up and says, “You’re doing all this and
[25:23] I’m just doing this.”
[25:25] I say, “Oh my God.
[25:27] Don't compare my what I say on stage about
meditation to your prayer practice or to how
[25:33] you parent or…” you just have to do it
in a way that feels like this is all the devotion
[25:42] – you’re giving it all your devotion in
your language, in your form right now.
[25:48] Yes.
[25:49] And I love that concept of just being like,
a super human.
[25:52] Meaning you’re a fantastic human being with
flaws, with flubs, who doesn't wake up and
[25:58] do the same morning routine every single day
and the same evening routine.
[26:01] Sometimes, D, I get questions and it breaks
my heart.
[26:05] Some women, single moms, like, “Oh, my goodness.
[26:08] Between the morning routine and the evening
routine and my full time job and trying to
[26:11] get this side hustle going and taking care
of my kids, I am – I don't even know how
[26:16] I’m supposed to get it all done.”
[26:17] And I’m like ugh, please just let go.
[26:20] Let go of some of the pressure and the comparison.
[26:23] You don't have to do 20 million things.
[26:25] If you find one little idea or one little
concept that brings you some joy, that’s
[26:30] all you need.
[26:32] Let’s go from there.
[26:33] Let’s build on that simplicity.
[26:34] And I think more of us need to talk about
how hard it is, though, too.
[26:39] And they would feel more at ease.
[26:42] Oh, it’s not easy.
[26:43] Are you kidding me?
[26:44] It’s not easy.
[26:45] And so many of us, and especially in social
media, make it look so easy because we’re
[26:51] capturing and we’re filtering and we’re
promoting the best moments.
[26:56] So there needs to be transparency with all
teachers.
[27:00] Yes.
[27:01] And speaking of that, something that I believe
is a perspective you and I both share is one
[27:08] on abundance and the fact that there is indeed
enough of everything: love and money and food
[27:15] to go around.
[27:16] But what we have currently on our planet is
a hoarding problem.
[27:21] I loved the line in the book where you said
there really is enough pie for everyone, just
[27:26] some people are pigs and eating a whole lot
of it.
[27:29] Yeah.
[27:30] I think this is one of the most damaging notions
with motivational speak.
[27:35] That if you can dream it you can achieve it.
[27:39] That – just go after your dreams and positive
– oh I could rant on about how positive
[27:47] thinking is leading us astray.
[27:49] Because very clearly if you have read the
news recently, things are not even.
[27:55] The playing field called earth is not balanced
for everybody.
[28:04] And I look at this from a really esoteric
standpoint.
[28:07] I am in this for the long game.
[28:09] I think we live in many dimensions, many incarnations,
and I leave a lot of room for the mystery
[28:16] of God and creation.
[28:18] I cannot explain it all.
[28:21] So I think the soul will experience as much
as it needs to experience to be whole, and
[28:26] that means you’re gonna go through some
suffering.
[28:30] You’re gonna go through some fortune.
[28:32] You’re gonna go through despair and fulfilment.
[28:36] Right now I am living an abundant life.
[28:41] I am a white, Canadian, female living in a
democracy.
[28:46] Right there I am incredibly privileged.
[28:50] So my version of spirituality or my definition
means that I am beholden, I am honor bound,
[29:01] to share my abundance and to not lay my motivational
hype on people who are not in abundance.
[29:13] So, “I’m gonna share with you, I’m not
gonna judge you about where you’re at, and
[29:19] I’m not gonna act like I have answers for
your pain.”
[29:22] Yeah.
[29:23] Well, amen to that one.
[29:24] I remember not too long ago someone asked
me to be in a documentary about how entrepreneurship
[29:30] can save the world.
[29:32] And as I do with anything that we’re considering
I was like, “I need to see a treatment,
[29:35] I need to see whatever you’ve got.”
[29:37] Because I’m not gonna say yes to anything
unless I fully understand the context.
[29:42] So they sent over a trailer and, Danielle,
I almost like fell off my chair.
[29:48] Because there was just like clips of people
saying, “If you believe it, you’re gonna
[29:53] make it happen.
[29:54] Doesn't matter.”
[29:55] And then they show a friggin’ Ferrari racing
around the Amalfi Coast in Italy.
[30:00] And I was like there’s no way in hell I
am being a part of any of this.
[30:05] Because the world is not equal and not everyone
won the ovarian lottery.
[30:10] And inequality and injustice is a very real
thing and all of these words are bullshit.
[30:16] They’re bullshit.
[30:17] And that’s not success.
[30:19] I’m really getting fatigued from seeing
all of the material stuff connected to the
[30:26] how to succeed.
[30:27] Like, the how to’s are often really right
on.
[30:31] “Yeah, do this step, this is this formula,
positive thinking will take you pretty far.”
[30:38] And is this what it’s about?
[30:41] I don't care if you just went public with
your company.
[30:44] I want to know what you’re doing for the
public.
[30:47] And yeah, we need more holistic images and
stories of what success really is.
[30:55] Yeah.
[30:56] And about what we can do to start to right
some of the inequalities and, again, we could
[31:02] go on and on about this.
[31:03] But I’m moving on now to another part of
the book, which was lovely.
[31:08] Another subtle but important distinction.
[31:10] You’ve called yourself a student scientist
on desire.
[31:13] Let’s talk about this distinction between
detachment and being non-attached.
[31:21] You wrote, “As Michael Bethwick shared with
me, detached is I’m not playing anymore.
[31:28] I’m taking my ball and I’m going home.
[31:31] Whereas non attached is, I’m playing full
out but I am not attached to an outcome.”
[31:36] Desire is my thing.
[31:42] I’ve looked at it from every possible angle.
[31:47] I’ve talked to every rabbi, every real deal
spiritual teacher I could, and they all have
[31:56] the same message.
[31:57] You do have to want it with all your heart
and you cannot be attached to getting it.
[32:03] And the extreme – is extreme the right word?
[32:08] Yeah.
[32:09] The extreme approach to this is detachment
where what happens is you say it’s okay
[32:16] if it doesn't happen.
[32:18] You actually even detach yourself from your
natural desires, the thing your heart and
[32:22] your body really wants.
[32:24] And there’s like this coldness to this.
[32:27] And my noticing around that detached approach
is it’s often this coverup for the fear
[32:36] of not getting what you want.
[32:37] You don't really want to melt into the desire
because, “if it doesn't happen I’ve just
[32:43] gotta suck it up.”
[32:44] So that’s where I think that comes from.
[32:48] But non-attachment, so much more spacious
and mature and flexible.
[32:54] So you’re doing two things.
[32:56] It’s really paradoxical.
[32:57] But this is, you know, all wisdom is paradoxical.
[33:00] Want it.
[33:01] Want it with every cell in your body.
[33:04] Believe that you deserve it.
[33:05] If you don't think that you deserve it, you’re
gonna create blockages to it coming your way.
[33:10] You will self sabotage things for sure.
[33:13] So you believe that you’re deserving, you
believe that in some dimension it already
[33:17] exists, you imagine it, you give it words,
you give it color, and you trust that the
[33:23] universe is gonna help bring that to you.
[33:27] You’re gonna allow for that to happen.
[33:30] And you let it go.
[33:31] You give it up to whoever your higher power
is, you move into that trust.
[33:36] That trust is sort of like the lubrication
for things happening.
[33:42] And I think that trust is only possible with
what I call deep positivity.
[33:49] So deep positivity is not the same as positive
thinking necessarily.
[33:56] So this is where I mentioned earlier I think
positive thinking has done us – has led
[34:02] us astray in some ways.
[34:04] So a lot of motivational hype has you think
positively about your vision board and what’s
[34:11] coming and you put it in affirmative tones.
[34:13] And you put it in the future tense.
[34:16] And yeah, I get that.
[34:17] That’s actually pretty valuable.
[34:19] But what happens when you don't manifest what
you’ve been positively thinking about.
[34:27] What’s on your bucket list or on your vision
board and all that.
[34:30] Then so many of us, because human, we feel
like we’re manifestation losers.
[34:36] Well, we didn't do it right.
[34:38] Or is there a different science or could I
just try harder.
[34:42] And that trying harder, as any metaphysician
will tell you, just pushes it away.
[34:47] It’s like if you imagine a leaf just floating
on water, the more you try to go to that leaf,
[34:51] you create motion, it goes away from you.
[34:54] You need to rest and trust for things to enter.
[34:57] Deep positivity is like the bedrock of faith.
[35:03] It has you trust and believe that even if,
everybody lean in or turn up the volume on
[35:11] this.
[35:12] Okay?
[35:13] … Even if you do not manifest what you want,
you will be okay.
[35:19] You will still be supported, you will still
be talented, you will still be loved.
[35:23] And loving, something better may come along.
[35:27] You will not fall apart if you do not get
what’s on your vision board.
[35:34] I don't think you can get more faithful than
that.
[35:36] I love it.
[35:37] For me, that has always been I think unarticulated
the way that I move through life.
[35:43] Because I’m wired just to be hopeful and
optimistic and trust.
[35:49] And I think it is such an important distinction.
[35:52] You know?
[35:53] “I am playing full out but I am not attached
to this particular outcome.”
[35:57] And it’s just such a joyful and playful
way to go through life because then you’re
[36:01] open also to surprises and you’re open to
the possibility that doing the work and being
[36:08] that open and vulnerable about what you desire
may bring you something wholly different that
[36:16] you could’ve never expected and it might
not even be that pleasurable at first.
[36:21] But for me, I’ve often seen in my life whenever
I have disappointments or I have people close
[36:26] to me that have deep disappointments and find
themselves in really difficult situations,
[36:32] I always think about movies.
[36:35] And I always take the long view.
[36:37] You know?
[36:38] And it’s kind of “like, hey, this is just
one scene.”
[36:40] Like, we’re kind of assuming that this is
the end of the movie, but it’s not.
[36:45] Like if we just hang out for a little bit
and see where this ride is gonna take us,
[36:49] it’s very likely that in whatever period
of time, we’re gonna look back and go, “Oh,
[36:54] my goodness.
[36:55] That was just a drama point.
[36:57] That was just a pivot point.
[36:58] That was just something that needed to turn
us in a new direction because what’s now
[37:02] come around the corner is so much deeper and
richer and beyond anything we could’ve imagined.”
[37:07] That’s the hero’s journey.
[37:09] That is the arc.
[37:10] It’s the arc of life.
[37:12] It’s just the way it is for humans.
[37:14] That’s it.
[37:15] So let’s wrap on what I think is really
the core concept of this book, which I wholeheartedly
[37:21] support, is this idea that the best self help
is really self compassion.
[37:28] Yeah.
[37:29] That’s it.
[37:32] That’s the heart, yeah.
[37:37] So simple.
[37:39] So profound.
[37:40] This has been in every mystical teaching for
thousands of years, that the way to go is
[37:48] to be your own best friend.
[37:51] And the way I work with some people, just
in conversation, is to sort of back them into
[38:00] this.
[38:01] It’s like if your friend showed up on your
doorstep and she’d just been dumped or fired
[38:09] or got a diagnosis or she’s at that place
where she just ... she’s hit bottom.
[38:15] She is declaring her weariness.
[38:19] What would you do?
[38:20] Every woman, every man … every person listening
to this, knows exactly how to be in a loving
[38:27] response to that person.
[38:29] You know?
[38:30] You would listen tirelessly.
[38:31] You would give them the food – you would
nourish in any way that they needed to be
[38:36] nourished.
[38:37] But we don't do this with ourselves.
[38:38] And for me, the most poignant moment with
this was, and this is really – this is what
[38:46] put me on track to write White Hot Truth.
[38:51] I’m in the bathtub, I’m crying, I’m
praying.
[38:55] I’m running out of deities to pray to.
[38:57] Like, another angel.
[38:58] I’m like is there an angel named Vera?
[39:00] Is there like, who is gonna help?
[39:01] Right?
[39:02] I’ve gone through everybody.
[39:04] Help me with this pain.
[39:06] Help me work through this, get over this.
[39:09] Even I don't even know what exactly needs
to be healed.
[39:14] And just like let out a sigh and I said something
to myself that I have never, ever said to
[39:21] myself, which was this.
[39:23] “You poor thing.
[39:28] You poor thing.
[39:33] Of course you’re not over this yet.
[39:35] Of course you’re stuck.
[39:36] Of course you’re crying again.
[39:38] Of course.”
[39:40] And I’d never said that to myself because
I’m a tough cookie.
[39:46] Because I don't – I have very little patience
for victim mentality in anybody else, myself
[39:51] especially.
[39:52] But that is exactly, you know, after, once
I recapitulated that, that’s exactly what
[39:57] I would say to a friend.
[39:59] “Of course this is hard.
[40:02] Of course.”
[40:04] And that was like I would say my most friendly
moment to myself.
[40:08] It really turned everything around.
[40:10] It’s like once I just went to that place
of like ultimate compassion and friendship
[40:16] and loving, then it’s amazing.
[40:20] I could think clearly.
[40:22] And I could see the solution.
[40:25] And I could see what needed to happen.
[40:27] And then the next step came which is, you
know, my big moment of standing in the mirror
[40:31] and asking myself if all the things I was
doing to be well and healthy and liberated
[40:37] were actually helping me to be well and healthy
and liberated.
[40:41] All of the yoga and the therapy and the shamans
and the psychotherapy and the spin classes.
[40:47] All of it.
[40:48] Some of it was, some of it wasn’t.
[40:50] So yeah, friendship.
[40:52] And the hardest time to be a friend, you know,
because this is where you have to take that
[40:58] new age broad stroke, just like just love
yourself.
[41:01] It’s so easy, right?
[41:02] I was in yoga class once, I’m in down dog,
and the 20 something yoga teacher says, “When
[41:09] you’re in down dog just love yourself.”
[41:10] And I just wanted to like punch her.
[41:12] Like, it’s just not that simple, sweetheart.
[41:16] It’s when you can love yourself when you
are hating yourself.
[41:21] It’s when you can apply acceptance when
you just think, “I’m a loser.
[41:27] I don't have the cliques.
[41:29] I’m still stuck in the same pattern.
[41:30] I’m dating the same kind of guy again.
[41:33] I’m still taking shit from my boss again.
[41:36] I was too harsh.
[41:38] I was too arrogant.”
[41:39] And when you’re in those moments you need
to be like, “You’re loving.
[41:45] You have good intentions.
[41:48] You are a compassionate person.”
[41:50] That’s the medicine and that is the power
that everybody wants.
[41:58] It’s right there.
[42:00] Danielle, I just want to congratulate you
on another spectacular book.
[42:05] I loved White Hot Truth.
[42:07] I would highly recommend it for everyone listening.
[42:09] And I just want to tell you, I’m so thrilled
and honored to call you my friend.
[42:14] It’s mutual.
[42:16] Forleo, you’re the best.
[42:18] You are integrity in motion.
[42:22] Real deal.
[42:23] Thank you.
[42:24] Now Danielle and I would love to hear from
you.
[42:28] So I’ve got two questions for you today.
[42:30] Number one, what was the insight or the ah
ha or the distinction or the piece of the
[42:35] conversation that meant the most to you and
why?
[42:39] And number two, if you’re gonna go along
with our idea, and even experiment with it
[42:43] for a moment, that the best self help really
is self compassion, how could you be more
[42:48] compassionate with yourself starting right
now?
[42:51] Now, as always, the best conversations happen
over at the magical land of MarieForleo.com,
[42:56] so head on over there and leave a comment
now.
[43:00] And once you’re there, if you’re not already,
be sure to subscribe to our email list and
[43:03] become an MF Insider.
[43:05] You’ll get instant access to a fantastic
little audio I created called How To Get Anything
[43:10] You Want.
[43:11] You'll also get some exclusive content and
personal updates from me that I just don't
[43:14] share anywhere else.
[43:16] So stay on your game and keep going for your
dreams because the world needs that very special
[43:22] gift that only you have.
[43:24] Thank you so much for listening and we’ll
catch you next time on the next episode of
[43:28] the MarieForleo Podcast.