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Inspiration

Conscious Growth: Why Doing LessIs the New Ambition

Danielle LaPorte
Danielle LaPorte
Nov 28, 2018
7 min read
Watch · 6

Danielle LaPorte walks into Chase Jarvis's studio at Creative Live in the middle of her day—she's been bouncing between interviews all morning, running on that particular high-wire energy that creative entrepreneurs know well. When Chase jokes about the bags under his own eyes from building a platform at full throttle, she laughs in recognition. They're both in it. Both of them know the cost.

Then she says something that stops the momentum. "I'm a recovering workaholic."

It's a deceptively casual admission from someone who has spent her career teaching others how to escape the exact trap she's describing. This is the real conversation—not about her accomplishments or her books, but about the collision between what she teaches and what she's living. LaPorte, one of Oprah's Super Soul 100 Leaders, author of bestsellers like The Fire Starter Sessions and The Desire Map, is confessing that the machinery that built her platform is running her into the ground. And she's starting to question whether the whole engine needs to be reconsidered.

Read · 6 sections

How Does a Success Coach Become Her Own Cautionary Tale?

LaPorte's work has always been about heresy within the self-help space. The Fire Starter Sessions was explicitly about defining success on your own terms—rejecting what she calls "plastic and genetically assumed definitions of ambition." The Desire Map goes further, offering not a goal-setting program but an "anti-goal-setting" approach. The methodology asks a disarmingly simple question: What do you actually want to feel? Not what do you want to achieve or own or become, but what emotional state are you actually chasing?

That question—if you sit with it—is clarifying enough to upend a life. It cuts through the noise of external metrics and asks you to listen to something more fundamental: your own knowing.

The irony is that this knowing has become increasingly difficult for LaPorte to access, because her business depends entirely on the opposite of what she teaches. She needs to be always on, always visible, always feeding the algorithm. "If you're an author and you have books," she explains to Chase, "your engine of your business is social media. I sell my day planners and I sell my books" through these platforms. But she's watching what those platforms are doing to her—and to everyone else.

What Happens When Medicine Becomes Poison?

LaPorte describes social media with an honest metaphor: "It's like any medicine. You take too much of it and it's poison." She's reached the threshold. "Facebook has become this vitriolic circus that's really not doing as much good as it could," she tells Chase. Yet she can't simply walk away. To do so would mean dismantling the very structure that built her reach.

This contradiction is more universal than it might seem. Every creator, every coach, every person trying to build something in the digital age knows it intimately. The tools that amplify your message also colonize your attention. The platform that sells your philosophy also sells you back to yourself as an endless project, never finished, never optimized enough.

What's happening to LaPorte is physical. The scrolling, the dopamine loops, the scrolling without time passing, the awareness that "I'm just never gonna get that back"—it's making her sick in ways that go beyond burnout. She's beginning to see the system for what it is: a designed dependency. And the more you sell on it, the more it owns you.

Chase brings his own reckoning. He describes looking at his phone and losing track of time entirely, only to realize: "There is nothing good happening right now. I feel worse than when I started scrolling." That moment—the crystallizing awareness that a behavior is actively harming you, not helping—is where real change begins. For both of them, it's the same realization: presence is what they're actually craving, and the devices are stealing it.

Do We Have to Keep Growing?

Buried in their conversation is a question so basic it feels almost taboo: "Do we have to grow?"

Of course we should grow. Growth is virtue. Progress is gospel. Self-improvement is the permanent condition of modern life. But LaPorte is suggesting something heretical: what if the constant pursuit of growth is itself the trap?

She's examined this culturally too. She used to write about work-life balance as a mythology—something that sounds good in theory but doesn't exist in practice. Now she's questioning that framework too. She notes that "anybody great never did anything without being exhausted at the finish line. I think that's true"—there's something to pushing hard. But she's reached a point where social media "in general, was just really making me sick." Something had to break.

The personal development industry—which she's been central to—has made constant self-dissatisfaction into a feature, not a bug. There's always something wrong with you. Meditate more. Eat greener. Optimize further. The result is a permanent state of inadequacy. LaPorte is beginning to see this not as motivation but as a kind of violence—a systematic undermining of your own wholeness.

What Does Conscious Growth Actually Mean?

This is where LaPorte's thinking becomes interesting and actionable. She's not advocating for stasis or self-abandonment. She's introducing the concept of "conscious growth"—growth that's chosen deliberately, aligned with what actually nourishes you, rather than what the culture is selling.

The difference is profound. Conscious growth means knowing when "this will improve me" is actually different from "this is good for me right now." It means being able to distinguish between the two. Most of us can't—we've outsourced our knowing to gurus, algorithms, metrics. We've learned to doubt our own sensing.

She gestures at something even more radical: "Everything I wrote before nine o'clock this morning I want to burn." She doesn't mean she regrets it. She means she's evolved. She knows more now. And that willingness to release what no longer serves—that's actually part of conscious growth. Not adding, but editing. Not becoming more, but becoming more aligned with what's actually true.

Why Is Saying No the Most Nourishing Thing You Can Do?

LaPorte offers a striking formulation: "No fucking way is a form of liberation." In a culture that has coded busyness as status and productivity as proof of worth, the ability to refuse becomes radical. To say no to social media, to growth metrics, to the hustle—that's freedom. That's autonomy. That's choosing yourself.

But most people don't know how to choose themselves because they don't know what they want. The Desire Map methodology addresses this directly: it teaches you to get quiet enough to hear your own answer. Not what should you want. Not what the market rewards. What do you want to feel? When you know that—when you've actually listened to that—saying no becomes clear. You can refuse anything that doesn't move you toward that feeling state.

Chase circles back repeatedly to presence and awareness as the through-line. He describes it as a ten-year journey—"constantly just trying to get back to the moment, back to the moment." He's tired of being busy because busy has become synonymous with "I'm not here." LaPorte agrees completely. Presence is what everyone is actually seeking, even when they think they're seeking money or followers or status. Those are just stand-ins for the real craving: to be home in your own life.

Where to go from here

The conversation between LaPorte and Jarvis doesn't offer a clean solution or a twelve-step program for escaping productivity culture. Instead, it models something more valuable: an honest accounting of how someone can build an empire on teaching one thing while living another, and the self-awareness required to name that contradiction.

The work now, for anyone caught in this cycle, is to get quiet enough to hear their own voice underneath the noise. Not the voice of the algorithm, not the voice of the industry, not even the voice of your own guru—your own voice. That's where LaPorte's actual teaching lives: in the radical proposition that you already know what you need. You're just too busy scrolling to listen.

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Transcript

[0:00] - Hey everybody what's up!

[0:01] It's Chase, welcome to another episode of the Chase Jarvis

[0:03] Live Show here on Creative Live.

[0:05] You all know this show or I hope you do by now.

[0:07] This is a show where I sit down with amazing humans

[0:09] and I do everything I can to unpack their brains

[0:12] with the single goal of helping you live your dreams.

[0:16] Whether that's career or hobby or life.

[0:18] My guest today is gonna take you on a journey.

[0:20] We're here to discuss a bunch of stuff.

[0:21] She's done like three or four books,

[0:23] new one White Hot Truth is super hot

[0:27] and my guest today is Danielle LaPort.

[0:29] - [Both] Yay!

[0:30] (driving music)

[0:41] (applauding)

[0:44] - They love you!

[0:45] Hug across the chair (yells)!

[0:47] Thank you so much for being on the show.

[0:50] We were just talking, this has been like kind of a long time

[0:52] in the making.

[0:53] - Yes, I've had my eye on your space and how you're growing

[0:56] and you know, for everybody who's watching,

[0:58] when I walked in I just like, I'm so happy for your success.

[1:00] - Thank you!

[1:01] - Yeah, you pulled it off!

[1:02] I wanted to do this but I was like eh.

[1:04] Let Chase do it.

[1:06] - What you shoulda said is like eh, that is a hell

[1:09] of a lot of work.

[1:10] Look at the bags under that dude's eyes!

[1:12] - Crazy! - Totally crazy.

[1:13] Gah!

[1:14] Well, if you have, if you are kind enough

[1:19] to say those nice things about me, I'll be kind enough

[1:21] to say your work is crazy impactful

[1:24] and so well-timed, so relevant, culturally.

[1:27] We're gonna take a nice arc in the show today.

[1:31] We can go wherever you want to go, but I have a couple

[1:32] of things I want to hit on.

[1:35] A couple of things, invariably, I don't know if for those

[1:38] folks at home, you can probably grasp this happens.

[1:40] We don't just walk in and sit down and start recording.

[1:42] There's like small talk and I'm so happy you're here.

[1:45] I was just watching your thing and I'm saying a bunch

[1:47] of stuff that I wanna.

[1:48] I'm just like, we had to decide to stop talking

[1:50] so we could save it for the broadcast.

[1:54] Yeah and I'm also very jealous that you're Canadian.

[1:56] I love-- - Understandable.

[1:59] - I love my country.

[2:01] I also love Canada, I'll just say that.

[2:03] - It's lovable right now.

[2:04] - It is, It's so lovable.

[2:06] But, welcome to the show.

[2:07] Thank you for agreeing to be here.

[2:09] I did just sneak a peak, you were recording something else

[2:12] down the hall here at Creative Live.

[2:14] I will not, I guess yeah, the folks at home would know.

[2:16] It's podcast week.

[2:18] She was interviewed by Streeny.

[2:21] Give me a little context.

[2:23] For the folks at home, again, you know our audience here

[2:26] really well, you said you've watched the show a bunch.

[2:28] Just start at the start. - Start at the start?

[2:31] - Start at the start.

[2:32] Go back a little bit.

[2:33] - That question.

[2:34] - Come on, start at the start, open ended.

[2:37] - Start at the start.

[2:40] I am, let me start with today.

[2:41] I'm grateful to be here. - Thank you.

[2:43] - I'm very interested in the medicine and the poison

[2:48] that is social media.

[2:50] I'm very interested in conversations around goal setting.

[2:53] I'm probably most well-known at this point for

[2:56] a book, a program called Desire Map, which is like,

[2:59] what I call a soulful approach to goal setting,

[3:02] but really that's actually a bit of like a tricky subtitle

[3:05] because it's really about like anti-goal setting.

[3:08] So there's something interesting there.

[3:11] - Oprah.

[3:12] - Oprah, yeah.

[3:14] I had brunch with Oprah.

[3:16] - That's pretty badass.

[3:16] - That's pretty badass.

[3:17] - And you're one of her 100 awesome.

[3:20] - Super soul.

[3:21] - Super soul super people.

[3:22] - Yeah, Steadman was there for brunch.

[3:25] Steadman just walked in in his track suit.

[3:27] I think he was just there for like the food.

[3:29] (laughs)

[3:30] - Amazing!

[3:32] - Yeah, White Hot Truth is the most recent book.

[3:35] Firestarter Sessions was on of my first things,

[3:38] you know big offerings, which is about defining success

[3:42] on your own terms and

[3:46] being everything that's not about plastic

[3:49] and genetically assumed definitions of ambition.

[3:55] And I'll say, everything I wrote like before nine o'clock

[4:00] this morning I want to burn. (laughs)

[4:06] I just, I don't want to start over, I just want it

[4:08] to all go away so I can say what I have to say today

[4:12] about whatever's up for me.

[4:14] - I think you just gave me like 10 hours worth of material.

[4:18] I don't know if you noticed, I just handcuffed you

[4:20] to the chair.

[4:21] We're gonna be here for a while folks.

[4:24] Let's go to the like, you were most fired up

[4:26] as I was just listening to the you know, you talk about

[4:29] what you were, well you give us a nice little arc there,

[4:32] but you were really, some real seriousness in your voice

[4:36] around social.

[4:37] You're just like, the benefits and the poison,

[4:40] you can call it.

[4:41] - I think it's like any medicine.

[4:43] You take too much of it and it's poison.

[4:45] I'm at a place, so you know, context I'm sure,

[4:48] everybody gets this, if you have an author,

[4:50] or if you're an author and you have books,

[4:53] your engine of your business is social media.

[4:57] I'm just like, deep introspection pulling out

[5:02] my relationship to all of that.

[5:05] How do I change my relationship to Facebook

[5:08] when really I think, Facebook has become this vitriolic

[5:10] circus that's really not doing as much good as it could?

[5:14] I think it should be free.

[5:18] That sells my day planners and it sells my books and

[5:23] in examining my relationship,

[5:26] like my business's relationship to social media,

[5:29] I have had to look at the fact that

[5:32] I am a workaholic.

[5:38] And I've never really said that.

[5:42] - Thank you for saying it here.

[5:43] - Yeah. (laughs)

[5:47] I don't know what, you know I'm aware of 12 steps

[5:50] and have lots of friends who have gone through

[5:52] that process and helped by it.

[5:54] I think you always state it in the present tense,

[5:57] which doesn't work for me, but, I'm a recovering workaholic.

[6:01] That really shifts my relationship to social.

[6:04] - Wow.

[6:06] I had a feeling the other day, I looked at my,

[6:08] I was like, I don't like not being present.

[6:11] I think like, presence and awareness is something I'm

[6:15] basically, it's been a 10 year journey for me,

[6:18] constantly just trying to get back to the moment,

[6:20] back to the moment.

[6:21] Busy people, we say we're busy, we're busy is cool

[6:24] 'cause it means you got a lot going on and it's like,

[6:27] I think I'm getting so tired of all that

[6:30] and now when people say how are you, I say I'm tired.

[6:34] Because I'm passionate about things I'm working on,

[6:36] but I just don't like, I guess I'll just finish my earlier

[6:40] thought, I looked at my phone yesterday and I had

[6:45] time had passed and I was not sure how much time.

[6:48] I just knew that I was just scrolling.

[6:50] I said to myself, there is nothing good happening right now.

[6:58] Sometimes there's plenty of good things that do come

[6:59] out of it, but just yesterday,

[7:02] I think it was yesterday evening, I was like,

[7:03] nothing good just happened.

[7:04] I feel worse than when I started scrolling

[7:09] and that's, to me, that was this thing, like whoa.

[7:12] We gotta figure this out.

[7:13] - And you know, I think our devices have been around

[7:17] long enough that this is like,

[7:22] generational isn't quite the right track for this,

[7:25] but it's like, the evidence is coming in.

[7:28] You know, we're starting to see what it's doing

[7:30] to our brains.

[7:32] We're starting to see what it's doing to our lives.

[7:36] This is you know, you're talking about presence

[7:40] and that's everything everybody's craving.

[7:43] You know, the guy, the girl, the money, the promotion,

[7:46] whatever, everything you want is really just underlying

[7:49] that, it's just a craving to be home

[7:52] and all this-- - Wherever home is for you.

[7:54] - Wherever home is for you.

[7:55] It has a lot to do with love

[7:57] and this is taking us out and now we know like,

[8:00] for me, the collision with realizing you know,

[8:03] workaholism, which I justified for so long.

[8:07] I saw you have a video up about the balance of,

[8:11] the myth of life balance, which I wrote about for years,

[8:15] and now I have to really question that.

[8:17] Like, you know I'd say well it's about harmony,

[8:19] you know, (laughs).

[8:21] And anybody great never did anything without being

[8:25] exhausted at the finish line.

[8:26] I think that's true, I mean, you push the baby out

[8:28] and you launch and,

[8:31] but I got to a point where

[8:35] social, let's just say in general,

[8:37] was just really making me sick.

[8:40] Having so many of those moments like, I'm just never

[8:42] gonna get that back and I'm trying really, really trying

[8:45] to be a morning person.

[8:46] Go bed at 10 p.m. and this is interrupting and the dopamine.

[8:52] The awareness was like, when I didn't have that to fill it

[8:56] my inclination was still to find some form of work.

[8:59] - Thing yeah, interesting.

[9:00] I like that you put social in work 'cause that's what

[9:04] you mean by being a workaholic right?

[9:05] You're working, you're working really hard,

[9:06] you care about, but also, this is sort of passably working

[9:10] 'cause if you're doing this

[9:11] you're thinking about work probably.

[9:13] - Oh, I'm looking do you love me?

[9:16] Was that a hit?

[9:17] Was that a, hey that article,

[9:18] somebody thinks I'm smart today.

[9:21] I wonder if I wasn't in this business, you know the hustle,

[9:24] hustle your wisdom business,

[9:27] I might just like call my friends instead of

[9:30] having a little Instagram account.

[9:32] It was be radical.

[9:34] - Hustle your wisdom, I love that.

[9:36] That's brilliant, I've not heard that.

[9:38] - Pretty much what I do.

[9:40] - Hustle your wisdom.

[9:41] All right, so.

[9:42] - If we can assume it's wisdom.

[9:44] That's a big leap there, but yeah.

[9:47] - It's clearly wisdom.

[9:48] You've found a lot of success.

[9:49] I would like to congratulate you on your success by the way.

[9:52] But let's uncork this just a little bit further.

[9:56] So, you framed it as helpful for your business,

[9:59] necessary maybe even.

[10:01] - Essential critical.

[10:02] - Critical. - Yeah, life force.

[10:04] - So how do you have a safe relationship with social?

[10:11] - Well, you examine your greed for one.

[10:13] How much do you need?

[10:15] We went through big process.

[10:17] I mean, still in it with my business.

[10:20] So team of nine, all women, one lucky dude

[10:24] and you know, what is growth really mean.

[10:28] Do we have to grow?

[10:30] Why can't we just, you know, we went through an exercise

[10:32] where what's our keep the lights on number?

[10:35] By keep the lights I mean, everybody is well paid,

[10:38] everybody we're bringing in a coach, take time off

[10:43] for your honeymoon, like just juicy lives.

[10:45] I want to be generous.

[10:46] Not just competitive, I want to be generous.

[10:49] I feel you know, paying people adequately, let alone paying

[10:53] them generously is an act of feminism 'cause patriarchy's

[10:56] always looking for a deal.

[10:57] So I feel like woman, by paying my people well.

[11:01] That's the keep the lights on number.

[11:05] Then there's healthy.

[11:07] We don't have to worry.

[11:08] What if we put some unknown and it's a flop?

[11:10] What if I go nuts and I need six months off? (laughs)

[11:15] I just asked my accountant the other day, I'm like,

[11:17] so that business insurance you're getting for me,

[11:19] if I go crazy is it covered

[11:22] because I think I'm fucking nuts today.

[11:26] So there's the well number and then there's, outside of that

[11:30] is the growth number and for me, that growth is about

[11:33] we get to hire the best people outside of the core team.

[11:37] I want the best designer.

[11:38] I want you know.

[11:40] And I can make whatever I want to make and I can get

[11:44] 80 pound card stock and even go old school and print it.

[11:48] I want my gold foil, right?

[11:50] That's the growth number. - Deboss that sucker.

[11:52] - Yeah, that's it.

[11:54] And then outside of that is just, we just want to be like

[11:59] super flush and I want to pay my house off

[12:02] and I want to get another place.

[12:03] I don't need to be there.

[12:05] I just, 'cause that number out there, is right now, for me,

[12:10] is crazy making.

[12:11] I want to be well and...

[12:14] - Is this a formal process that you did internally

[12:16] for your team?

[12:17] - Well, it usually happens in my living room with some tea

[12:19] and I'm just like, it's gotta change you guys.

[12:23] Yeah, there was some formalization to it.

[12:28] - Is that an exercise that you prescribe?

[12:33] Like how did you find yourself in there?

[12:35] Are you eating your own medicine here?

[12:36] - Oh totally because we're addicted to growth.

[12:38] Because I think capitalism is killin' us.

[12:46] - Devil's advocate, like, well so what's the opposite

[12:48] of, you're either growing or you're dying.

[12:50] - Well, you're having, you can grow consciously

[12:53] and you may have to say no sometimes to expansion

[12:56] because it's what's most nourishing.

[12:57] You see, you're in touch with your system

[13:00] and when your system is serving you

[13:02] and when it's breaking you.

[13:05] You know I really think at this point, this is like,

[13:08] beyond idealistic but business has to be

[13:13] in service to humanity.

[13:16] It's not just triple bottom line, it's not just neutral.

[13:20] This business exists to make a difference.

[13:23] - I think that's a, I don't even want to call it a trend.

[13:26] That feels like it's way undervalued.

[13:27] It's like a realization that this is actually

[13:29] the only thing that makes this whole program sustainable

[13:34] is if there is some inherent value beyond shareholder value

[13:41] and growth at all costs.

[13:42] So, little back story, sharing here

[13:47] and I gotta be careful 'cause it's double edged sword but...

[13:52] Started out this company was a side project,

[13:54] was a little side hustle for me and my partner.

[13:56] We flipped the lights on and boom, our first class had

[13:58] 50,000 people.

[13:59] And like, wow! - That's amazing.

[14:02] - Yeah, it was amazing, it was incredible.

[14:03] The second one had 100,000. - How did that happen?

[14:06] - And the third one had 150,000.

[14:07] It was probably the biggest class that the world's ever had

[14:10] and it was interesting and we definitely said okay,

[14:12] we got a tiger by the tail.

[14:14] So what you do, you start figuring out how to grow it

[14:16] and it's fun and at some point we had

[14:20] venture capital said oh, we want, let's do this.

[14:23] Great, you know, went through the process,

[14:26] found some amazing partners and then we're down

[14:29] in Silicon Valley.

[14:30] So we got a footprint down there as well.

[14:31] Now, grow grow grow.

[14:35] - Are you sleeping through the night?

[14:37] - Well look at me, hell no.

[14:38] Are you kidding?

[14:40] This is not the face of a dude who gets a lot of sleep!

[14:43] I espouse and I profess sleep.

[14:45] I laid in bed for eight hours last night.

[14:47] I did not sleep for eight hours, but I was in the covers

[14:50] for eight hours.

[14:51] But my point is this, in that culture,

[14:55] like growth is the-- - Growth is God.

[14:58] - It's almost the only metric.

[15:02] One person I had on this show, who is actually in

[15:04] one of the venture capital firms, Graylock,

[15:05] one of the top firms of all time, Reed Hoffman.

[15:08] He's here and he said one of the biggest decisions

[15:09] we made at Linkedin was to make, 90% of money came from

[15:15] businesses yet we needed to make the product

[15:18] for the individual users.

[15:20] That was radical because it wasn't actually in,

[15:24] like it was a decision to leave money on the table

[15:27] in service of something we believed in,

[15:30] which was providing a service for a human,

[15:31] individual person.

[15:33] I thought that was remarkable. - It is.

[15:34] - The irony is that that is not, is not what my experience

[15:40] of Silicon Valley.

[15:41] It's basically grow at all costs.

[15:42] Now, this is a long interlude here, but what I'm gonna do

[15:46] is I'm gonna now ask you like, but isn't personal growth

[15:52] the thing that we're all striving for?

[15:53] Isn't like, that is, or is it are we striving,

[15:57] is it love that we're striving for?

[15:59] Is it personal development?

[16:01] - Well, development to what end?

[16:04] - Yeah, exactly.

[16:05] I'm giving you some breadcrumbs here,

[16:08] but take em and tell me, you tell me,

[16:10] because people listen to this show because they want

[16:12] to grow and change and transform their lives.

[16:15] You've just said it really, I think a bold thing,

[16:18] it's like it's not grow at all costs.

[16:20] There's this, we have to look at it more carefully.

[16:24] I want you to talk about that for a second.

[16:26] - Well, my whole thesis, if I may.

[16:29] - Please this is the theses are why you're here.

[16:32] - My whole thesis with White Hot Truth is that

[16:35] self help too often, is becoming a tool for self criticism.

[16:40] - It's beautiful.

[16:41] - It's another form of addiction,

[16:43] this form of personal growth.

[16:46] Thanks for setting this up,

[16:47] 'cause I haven't thought about it a while.

[16:50] It really begins with the intention.

[16:53] So are you going for therapy, are you using your Fit Bit,

[16:56] are you logging time on the meditation cushion,

[17:00] are you going to the retreat about pussy power,

[17:02] are you eating green, whatever it is you think is gonna

[17:05] make you a better person, are you doing that out of

[17:08] this place of inadequacy, out of this place of shame,

[17:12] out of this place of just Catholic guilt, Jewish guilt?

[17:17] It's all you're guilty.

[17:18] If you're in an organized religion you did something

[17:21] really fucking wrong.

[17:25] That will just put you on this hamster wheel

[17:27] and it'll cost you a lot of money.

[17:29] You know my revelation was

[17:33] I'm a basically get down to this question,

[17:35] is everything I'm doing to be well really making me well?

[17:41] And it was actually stressing me out.

[17:43] I looked at my day planner, which I produce by the way.

[17:48] - Yes, you can get it for 99.95.

[17:52] You did, they are remarkable, they're beautiful.

[17:53] - Beautiful system, I love that offering.

[17:58] I had like a Skype with a shaman and then yoga

[18:02] and then I would write a little smiley face every time

[18:04] I go to yoga 'cause it made me a better person.

[18:08] Then I had my shrink and I just like,

[18:11] I don't, what am I doing?

[18:17] I went through withdrawals.

[18:18] I just took myself off the program and had some betrayal,

[18:23] great betrayal stuff happen with like an energy worker

[18:26] and it was just really clear, just like clean my space up.

[18:31] The withdrawals were oh my God, should I,

[18:37] I should talk to my coach before I sign this contract.

[18:40] Nope.

[18:41] I said me, I said, self referencing, self agency.

[18:46] My life did not fall apart. - That's the good news.

[18:50] - That's the good news.

[18:51] You know for a long time, when I doing speaking gigs

[18:54] I would stand up and say, let's run this like an AA meeting.

[18:57] I would stand up and say, "My name is Danielle."

[18:59] Everybody would be hello Danielle.

[19:00] And I'd be like it has been, it has been 11 months

[19:05] since I had an astrology reading.

[19:06] (laughing)

[19:09] I have not been to a psychic for a year.

[19:15] I've saved a lot of money and a lot more peace and yeah.

[19:21] - Talk about self hate.

[19:22] I was impressed by that, your take on that.

[19:24] I think that's a, I have been introduced to that term

[19:32] in, I would say, the last two to four years

[19:35] and I'm seeing it sort of grow in popularity

[19:37] and it sounds harsh.

[19:39] - It sounds so harsh. - Yeah it does sound harsh.

[19:42] But you speak of it eloquently.

[19:45] - I think it's, I don't want to say underpinning,

[19:50] I think it's a through line in a lot of our motivations.

[19:56] I think a lot of it comes from family of origin stuff.

[20:02] Everybody in their innocent fumbling and bumbling

[20:05] of raising children and we get planted with these

[20:10] toxic little seeds about self worth and all the things

[20:14] we should be ashamed of.

[20:19] You know, my audience is predominantly new age women,

[20:24] self referencing, and it's amazing

[20:28] when you ask a room full of 4,000 women,

[20:32] if maybe just a little bit if they hate themselves.

[20:36] - We'll go deeper because I think for those who have

[20:38] just heard that term for the first time, like,

[20:42] what do you mean by that?

[20:43] Because I don't, like I'm sitting here like,

[20:45] I don't hate myself.

[20:47] I think I'm a pretty good guy and or in your case

[20:49] a pretty good woman and I do X and Y.

[20:51] I got my faults, but hey.

[20:53] - You're decent.

[20:54] - Yeah, but there's a, do you consider self hate

[20:59] like the voice in my head that or in a Huffington

[21:02] calls your unwanted roommate.

[21:04] Like, so people can say oh yeah,

[21:07] I got a little bit of that self hate.

[21:09] Describe it, what is it?

[21:11] - Oh, I should be further along than I am.

[21:15] I need to be skinnier, curvier, whiter, browner,

[21:19] longer, shorter.

[21:21] It's all tangled up with the striving.

[21:24] It's part of the game of comparison.

[21:28] Comparison will kill your spirit.

[21:31] It's the self talk for sure.

[21:35] I mean, sometimes I'm struck when I see a really powerful

[21:40] person, like let's define that.

[21:42] A person who's in a position of influence and they say

[21:45] something like, oh I'm such an idiot.

[21:49] I mean sure there's sometimes you say I'm such an idiot,

[21:50] I'm like yeah, what was I thinking.

[21:52] Just how people speak of themselves or

[21:58] you wouldn't talk to your child like that and you know,

[22:03] the beautiful story in this self hatred conversation

[22:06] is around the first time I heard about this meeting

[22:10] that happened with the Dalai Lama

[22:12] and a group of psychologists and some scientists

[22:14] and high level meditators.

[22:15] Somebody brought up the concept of self hatred

[22:19] to the Dalai Lama.

[22:20] 14th incarnation of the Buddha.

[22:22] Never heard of this.

[22:23] Had to kept, you can see it.

[22:25] He kept turning to his translator, like, I don't get it.

[22:32] I just, you know, if I was there I'd say listen,

[22:34] it's an epidemic and it's driving so much of what we do

[22:38] and we just, it's the poison in the water

[22:40] and let's just call it for what it is.

[22:43] I thought doesn't everybody hate themselves

[22:47] just a little bit?

[22:48] Apparently not, apparently not.

[22:52] I want to be there.

[22:54] I mean, I--

[22:54] - Is it a Western culture thing?

[22:57] Is it a male a female?

[22:59] Is it U.S.?

[23:01] Is it pop culture?

[23:03] What's driving it?

[23:04] - Well, I think it's just wildfire in Western culture

[23:08] and Western culture's, there's globalism.

[23:12] The comparison that social media gives everybody

[23:15] the opportunity everyday.

[23:17] - You saw where I've gone, we're bringing it back!

[23:19] - Filter back. - Bringing it back.

[23:20] - Yeah, just filter that shit up

[23:22] and then see who's comparing.

[23:26] I used to co-run a think tank.

[23:28] We would scenario plan for future cataclysmic events.

[23:35] Somebody brought up what happens if people in third world

[23:39] situations see commercials of that woman pouring

[23:44] Coca Cola into a glass of ice?

[23:47] That hurts your brain, you gotta really think what happens?

[23:50] They see everything that's going on.

[23:52] It was the ice.

[23:55] They don't have refrige, they don't have ice.

[23:58] They're gonna feel lacking.

[23:59] Now they're gonna need the fridge.

[24:00] Now they need the job.

[24:03] It's a comparison explosion.

[24:06] - So how do you escape it?

[24:07] Like again, we're, we're

[24:11] I think intentionally I'm trying to underscore the point

[24:14] that what we're talking about is everywhere, it's pervasive.

[24:17] So I'm setting up the problem.

[24:22] Right now, you're like wait a minute, now if I drink

[24:24] a Coca Cola with ice, I'm bad.

[24:30] How, I mean, how do you remedy?

[24:33] Like, so let's just, let me back up.

[24:36] What we have just established is that everyone's got

[24:39] a little self hate.

[24:40] 'Cause if self hate is

[24:44] defined, this is loose definition, I'm gonna try and take

[24:46] from your work, like it's that negative self talk.

[24:50] I'm not tall enough, skinny enough,

[24:52] smart enough, fast enough.

[24:54] - Rich enough. - Rich enough.

[24:55] We've all got it.

[24:56] I don't know anyone who doesn't.

[24:59] But you've also said social is everywhere.

[25:03] Comparing that it's enhancing our ability to compare

[25:06] more quickly because media and information's coming

[25:08] at us more quickly.

[25:10] Dear God, take me out of the cave because I feel like

[25:12] I want to jump off a bridge.

[25:13] This is like, this is not optimistic, deliver me.

[25:18] Tell me, like what's the?

[25:20] - Let's go the promise land.

[25:21] - Go to the promise land because that's a very bleak

[25:23] and nine out of 10 guests on the show we talk about

[25:26] how oh, like I built my business on the back of being able

[25:32] to tell stories on the internet.

[25:33] It's the great democratizer.

[25:37] It's the first time in the history of the world

[25:39] where we all have access to distribution blah blah blah.

[25:41] All these things, can they both be true at the same time?

[25:44] - Absolutely.

[25:45] I mean, consciousness is about being able

[25:47] to hold conflicting ideologies at the same time.

[25:49] You can see both, it's very gray and it's very messy

[25:52] and it's very beautiful.

[25:55] How you get out, you have to want to get out.

[26:00] You have to want to be conscious.

[26:02] This isn't, this isn't like you get to swim in this sea

[26:06] of culture and maybe the idea will come.

[26:09] You know, someone's gonna feed you something

[26:11] and you're gonna want to live a holistic life

[26:13] and love yourself.

[26:14] You have to want it with all your might

[26:16] and you have to do the work.

[26:17] You have to go for therapy.

[26:19] You have to eat clean.

[26:20] Do what you want, but there's a reason why clean eating

[26:25] and meditation, some form of contemplation,

[26:28] and moving your body in a sacred way.

[26:30] Not just running to be fit, but being one with your bod.

[26:36] There's a reason those things have been preached about

[26:38] for thousands of years, because they work.

[26:40] If you are in enough pain,

[26:43] we have to move towards pleasure or pain.

[26:46] I vote for pleasure. - Same!

[26:48] - Right, runnin'!

[26:51] But if you're in enough pain,

[26:53] you're gonna reach for some tools to wake up.

[26:57] Those will put you on the path to self agency.

[27:00] You will get to the bedrock of self hate.

[27:02] You will go through the hell of that and you will realize

[27:06] you have only love to live for.

[27:10] But that requires some chutzpah.

[27:17] - Some chutzpah.

[27:19] So you write about the chutzpah.

[27:21] - I do. - That that requires.

[27:23] You gave us a bunch of tactics just now.

[27:24] We need to meditate, we need to move our bodies spiritually.

[27:28] By that you mean-- - Eat clean.

[27:30] - Yoga.

[27:31] - Yeah, I mean, go for a run and make it your offering

[27:34] to God, whatever.

[27:37] - Just be present.

[27:38] - Go for a walk around the block and just say a prayer

[27:44] for journalists and democracy

[27:48] and that the planet gets cleaned up.

[27:49] Just be intentional how you move your body.

[27:54] - Are there things that are on this list?

[27:57] And for what it's worth, like, it's taken me

[28:01] most of my life to figure out all of the things

[28:03] that you're talking about now.

[28:04] I do have a list of 10 things that I do everyday

[28:07] and everything that you just mentioned is on that list.

[28:09] - Can I ask you a question?

[28:10] - Please do.

[28:11] - What if you don't do the 10 things?

[28:13] Do you feel like shit? - I do.

[28:14] Not all 10, not all 10.

[28:17] I can run with six out of 10 for a while

[28:22] and then the wheels do start.

[28:23] - But by feel like shit I don't mean like your demeanor

[28:25] or whatever, but do you criticize yourself if you're not

[28:27] doing the 10?

[28:29] - Um, to me I use it as awareness practice.

[28:32] So to me, and then this is a process that I have had

[28:37] to go through in order to arrive at this place,

[28:40] which is I use this as a reminder

[28:43] that the reason you have a map is...

[28:48] The reason you make a plan is so when shit is blowing up

[28:53] around you, you don't have to create a plan.

[28:55] You look at the piece of paper that you wrote

[28:57] when you were of sound mind and body.

[28:59] It's like oh, I do this.

[29:02] When hell's breaking loose,

[29:03] I just go back to these basic things.

[29:05] So I have learned to look at that more as a roadmap

[29:08] and a reminder than as a you dick, you didn't,

[29:12] you know meditate yesterday morning.

[29:15] So I've figured it out, but my competitive self

[29:17] in an earlier me was like, oh what is nine out of 10 shit!

[29:21] - Chase 1.0.

[29:23] - But I think what I can say about it is,

[29:26] and this is the nature of my question that we'll follow,

[29:29] but I, this is true to this day,

[29:33] I do not have an experience of doing this list of 10 things

[29:38] and not feeling amazing.

[29:42] Even when some of the worse shit in my life was happening,

[29:46] if I you know, get eight hours of sleep,

[29:49] eat clean, drink 64 ounces of water, meditate,

[29:53] move my body everyday,

[29:56] you know have zero to one glasses of alcohol,

[30:00] and there's a couple of others, we'll just leaven them off

[30:02] but that's about seven, I have no experience of doing

[30:06] all of those things and not feeling great.

[30:09] - Or and let's, for everybody listening,

[30:12] say there's not, there's feeling great

[30:16] and there's also the experience of just suffering

[30:19] a little bit less.

[30:20] And that's okay too with that.

[30:22] - Beautiful, I love the way you put that.

[30:25] My question, this is also a long lead-in boy,

[30:30] what's on your list?

[30:32] - What's on my list?

[30:32] - Yeah, is it those things or just some different things

[30:34] on there, like, 'cause this is like,

[30:36] what I love about this show is that we go,

[30:39] we cover a lot of ground.

[30:40] It's big ideas and it's very tactical all at the same time.

[30:43] Like you said, you can hold these things, that is wisdom.

[30:47] - Conflicting ideas. - Consciousness there you go.

[30:50] - So I have a list but I also have

[30:54] a new lead developing

[30:59] way that I hold the list,

[31:00] which is so much more compassionate than it used to be.

[31:03] This is like Danielle 2.0.

[31:05] So the list is I meditate on a regular basis,

[31:09] usually seven days a week.

[31:10] Sometimes that is sitting for 11 minutes

[31:14] and I have a particular thing I do.

[31:16] Sometimes I can go off and really move

[31:18] into like a visualization practice for a long time.

[31:24] I have an alter that I sit in front of at home

[31:27] but I mean, just on the way here I took the shuttle down

[31:30] and I was doing my stuff on the shuttle.

[31:34] I also work with some mantra sometimes.

[31:37] I pray a lot and my relationship

[31:39] to prayer has been shifting.

[31:41] I used to always be negotiating with the higher power.

[31:45] Like, oh do this and I promise I'll serve.

[31:49] No, no, we're in concert here.

[31:53] This is team work.

[31:55] I'm gonna ask and I'm gonna believe.

[31:58] Sometimes I just have to imagine, but I'm gonna believe

[32:00] I'm worth having this prayer answered.

[32:04] So those are my contemplative practices.

[32:08] I eat pretty clean.

[32:10] Not a lot that I can buy out of

[32:12] at the average grocery store.

[32:14] So farmer's market and really intentional about that.

[32:19] I move my body in a way that is about me being closer

[32:22] to the life source.

[32:25] So there's days to get on the treadmill and just run

[32:30] but mostly for me, that's yoga.

[32:33] There's zero competition about it.

[32:35] If I get a tighter ass it's a bonus,

[32:38] it's not the reason I'm doing it.

[32:41] Yeah, I dance, I dance in my living room

[32:43] I dance in my kitchen.

[32:45] I would say that my friends are a religion.

[32:48] I mean, I'm really so aware that

[32:54] if you're not loving you're an asshole really. (laughs)

[32:58] I mean just, my friends scoop me out and lift me up

[33:04] and the what I get from

[33:09] trying to do that for them

[33:10] is really the closest I feel to life.

[33:14] In addition to loving my incredibly awesome 14 year old son.

[33:18] But yeah, friendship, friendship is a spiritual practice.

[33:23] - I love that.

[33:24] What do you do to practice friendship?

[33:25] - Text obsessively.

[33:28] Always choose the friend over the deadline.

[33:30] Nine times out of 10, choose the friend over the deadline.

[33:35] Check in and there's always a couple questions like,

[33:39] how's your heart?

[33:41] You know you can go hang out with your buddy

[33:43] in like cafe or whatever,

[33:44] 45 minutes ago and you talk about life,

[33:47] but you don't really know how their being is doing.

[33:50] Just like, you might just say how are you really doing?

[33:54] Just listen and just listen, yeah.

[33:58] - Talk to me about deep positivity.

[34:01] - Oh God, deep positivity.

[34:03] - 'Cause what you've said is like a second ago,

[34:05] you're like don't be an asshole.

[34:06] - Don't be an asshole.

[34:07] - Then I just looked at my notes

[34:08] and it said deep positivity.

[34:10] - Well here's the thing, the idea, the concept

[34:13] of positive thinking in the new age movement

[34:17] I think is leading us astray.

[34:20] It's the idea that you're gonna think positively

[34:22] no matter what's going on and you know what that is?

[34:24] That is fucking denial.

[34:26] It is not gonna make you a stronger person.

[34:29] It's not gonna make you more creative.

[34:32] It sets us up so that you know, we're on the track

[34:36] for the goal and for the achievement.

[34:39] It's like this, this is gonna work out the way I want

[34:41] it to work out.

[34:42] This is gonna happen, this is gonna happen.

[34:44] How many times does it happen?

[34:46] 50/50 you're gonna get what you set out to get.

[34:51] So if you're not getting what you set out to get,

[34:54] then the comparison comes in, starting to feel like a loser.

[34:58] I still got my shit together but I still feel like a loser.

[35:00] Deep positivity is that even if I do not get what I want,

[35:05] I will be okay.

[35:07] I will survive and I will thrive no matter what.

[35:11] Life has got my back.

[35:12] Love will come into my, I will still be a loving person

[35:15] no matter what.

[35:17] When you are from, this is a very difficult place

[35:20] to live from all the time, but when you're there,

[35:24] oh my God, stuff can come to you!

[35:26] - Yeah it's like you're more open to it.

[35:28] - You're less neurotic.

[35:29] You sleep better.

[35:31] There's less grasping.

[35:33] When there's less grasping there's more generosity.

[35:37] - I have a, the way that I have tried to capture that,

[35:40] I think you just did maybe the most eloquently explanation

[35:44] I've heard of it.

[35:45] The thing that I was like, is like, life is happening

[35:48] for you not to you.

[35:51] Is that somewhat, is that in line with what you're talking

[35:53] about or is that different thing?

[35:55] - I would say, let's take it one step further.

[35:57] Life is happening with me.

[36:00] I think I really need to show up for life

[36:02] and maybe that's like some Catholic hangover guilt thing

[36:05] I have, that I gotta work for it.

[36:09] But yeah, I really am, I'm down with the teamwork idea.

[36:12] - Interesting and so is that showing up,

[36:15] that's the teamwork part, is that your moving your body.

[36:20] - It's my list. - Is that your list?

[36:21] - That's my list and I would add to the list,

[36:24] I don't, it's not essential for everybody,

[36:26] but on my list is like I want to be of service.

[36:31] I feel better when I'm generous.

[36:36] The reason I say it might not be on everybody's list,

[36:38] is because I think some lifetimes you get

[36:41] a get out of jail card free and you can just live

[36:44] in your castle and it's, some of us just get easy lives.

[36:49] I mean, that's part of my belief system.

[36:51] Sometimes others, we're gonna work.

[36:56] - So, let's put a pin in all that for a second.

[37:00] Now this is my hope here is that

[37:05] this helps the conversation.

[37:08] What do you feel like, you know, I'm gonna try and feed

[37:12] you your own medicine here.

[37:14] There are things that are going phenomenal for you.

[37:17] Clearly career wise, we just talked about the bountiful way

[37:21] that you approached growth and your business

[37:23] and want to make sure everyone's paid well

[37:27] and what I'm interested in is not just all the fluff.

[37:30] That's all, that you're providing for those people

[37:33] and it's going well, it's fantastic.

[37:36] I know that the folks at home are sitting there, like,

[37:37] they're comparing your highlight reel and this conversation

[37:40] you had with your nine employees, nine female one male,

[37:42] and said that's awesome, but that's not how it's going

[37:46] for me right now.

[37:47] Because that's what we do in a comparative world right?

[37:49] We say my highlight reel, my real world is getting

[37:53] compared constantly to Danielle's highlight reel.

[37:56] 'Cause that's all I know of Danielle is her highlight reel.

[37:58] - Oh, you want to talk about the pain?

[37:59] I can talk about the pain.

[38:00] - I'm interested in talking, just like help us understand

[38:05] some things in your life that aren't going like you want

[38:08] them to and

[38:11] load it in this question,

[38:12] what are you doing about it or what do you?

[38:15] Just think about the neurosis and that, like gotta fix it.

[38:17] And how are you experiencing it, maybe that's a better word.

[38:23] Just, I'm just looking for an anecdote or something here,

[38:27] just so that everyone at home knows

[38:28] that we've all got our shit.

[38:30] - We all have our shit.

[38:31] Well, I have just come off of, as of like 48 hours ago,

[38:38] three days of intensive therapy where I just wept and shook

[38:43] and got stuff out and that is how I do my work.

[38:47] I mean, I got a great book out of it too. (laughs)

[38:51] But that's my commitment to like,

[38:54] I don't want my subconscious wounds to be running

[38:59] my romantic life.

[39:01] Very specifically, and everybody has an unconscious

[39:07] and I want to know what's in there.

[39:10] I want the love I want in the way that I want it.

[39:13] I want to fully show up.

[39:14] I don't want to project.

[39:17] So yeah, gut wrenching therapy.

[39:20] - Any specific sort of practice of therapy?

[39:22] Like is there...

[39:23] - I just did EMDR.

[39:27] - For those that don't know?

[39:28] - Oh God, I forget what it stands for, but basically

[39:31] you're--

[39:32] - Electromagnetic, no it's not that but it's something.

[39:34] - It's eye movement desensitize something.

[39:37] Please put it in the notes. - In the show notes yep.

[39:40] - The idea is that you're go to effect your brain chemistry

[39:45] and really get stuff out that you don't want,

[39:48] thought forms that you don't want and reprogram yourself

[39:52] with the really empowering thought forms.

[39:55] I highly recommend it to people.

[39:57] So EMDR, find a good EMDR therapist.

[40:02] - So thank you for sharing that, being vulnerable.

[40:06] Let's talk about right now there's someone out there,

[40:08] I'm just trying to put myself in the eyes and ears

[40:12] of our listeners and watchers, some I'm like yeah,

[40:14] that sounds like really hard

[40:15] and I don't have time for that right now.

[40:17] - Yeah well, you know what, too bad.

[40:19] This is where the tough love comes in.

[40:21] You want to suffer?

[40:22] You want to be riddled with anxiety?

[40:25] You want to half ass it in your relationships?

[40:27] You want to be lonely?

[40:28] Then don't do anything.

[40:30] Don't look within, don't go to therapy,

[40:32] don't meditate, eat shit.

[40:38] You're just going to continue to retraumatize

[40:40] and continue to induce pain.

[40:43] Like this takes work, it takes work.

[40:46] The joy on the other side of knowing that you can survive

[40:52] and thrive and you still want to make a contribution

[40:55] and you realize how really, how,

[40:57] you're gonna realize that you are fundamentally motivated

[41:01] by kindness and it will change how you walk in the world.

[41:06] It will change your chemistry.

[41:08] And you'll be really fucking sexy when you realize that.

[41:13] But do the work.

[41:14] - So I'm gonna summarize and say so there's a practicality

[41:18] to it, it's not just like.

[41:21] - It's not just look, time does not heal all wounds.

[41:24] Consciousness heals the wounds, yeah.

[41:28] You gotta dig in there and examine what it means

[41:31] to forgive people in your life.

[41:34] You're gonna get to the bedrock where you realize

[41:36] forgive yourself for being in the wrong place

[41:37] at the wrong time.

[41:41] Yeah, do it.

[41:43] - So can you give us a hint on the book, 'cause you just,

[41:46] the therapy uncorked clearly--

[41:49] - The working title for the next book

[41:51] is Things I Do When I'm In Pain. (laughs)

[41:54] But I don't know if that'll sell.

[41:57] - Things that I do when I'm in pain, I wonder if like,

[41:59] well, I think that's the secret to successful book right,

[42:04] is you grab someone as they're walking by the book--

[42:08] Well of course, people will talk about it,

[42:10] but also like, what people are saying when they read

[42:14] that title is, hm, I have a little bit of pain

[42:17] I'm carrying around.

[42:20] Is that an untold truth?

[42:24] - No, I think that's the truth.

[42:25] I think two things are happening, pleasure and pain,

[42:27] but we're either really intentionally trying to get home

[42:31] and feel connection and communion

[42:33] or we're trying to get out of our suffering.

[42:36] They're both like super related.

[42:40] - Explain suffering 'cause I think,

[42:42] it sort of the Buddhist sense is we're all suffering

[42:45] and we need to find a way.

[42:48] Go ahead, I'll let you.

[42:49] - Well, it's one of the four noble truths

[42:50] is that there is suffering.

[42:53] I forget the other two, but another noble truth

[42:54] is that it doesn't have to be this way.

[42:56] - Got it.

[42:58] - And this is why I'm not a Buddhist. (laughs)

[43:01] - You're a former guilty Catholic.

[43:05] - I mean, when I lived in Seattle a hundred years ago

[43:09] I was going to, I forget, but of a pashna center here

[43:14] and the instructor said to me, "How are you feeling?".

[43:19] I said, "Like my mind feels more empty

[43:22] "but so does my heart."

[43:25] It just wasn't, it wasn't gonna work, I'm just more into

[43:28] like the cosmic all be though love.

[43:33] Suffering, I don't know.

[43:36] I'm still trying to answer the question for myself

[43:39] if suffering is essential for growth.

[43:42] I think the answer's probably yes,

[43:44] but I'm gonna stay in denial about it. (laughs)

[43:49] - My friend is a startup guy and he's a dear friend.

[43:53] He won the America's Cup just type A, hard charging athlete,

[43:58] great startup guy and he's like, he's had this little wisdom

[44:01] he's like, itindy.

[44:03] Itindy it like, it sounded like an African afroism

[44:08] that I should know.

[44:08] He's like no, no, it's important things I'm not doing yet.

[44:12] I've acknowledged that they're important.

[44:14] I'm gonna get to them, they're on my list.

[44:17] You can only do so many things and I just thought

[44:19] it was beautiful because it's like, you have to acknowledge

[44:22] those things and you have to acknowledge they're important.

[44:23] You can't tackle all the world's problems, but I digress.

[44:26] Sorry, back to you and suffering.

[44:28] - Well, me trying to be, being outside of itindy

[44:33] and tackle all the world's problems was causing

[44:35] me huge suffering.

[44:38] I mean, with the stuff that's been going on in the last

[44:39] two years in the U.S. and everything is falling apart

[44:43] because it has to.

[44:46] The structures need to come down so I take some solace

[44:49] in that, but you know I just had a friend say,

[44:53] you know Danielle you can't save every fish in the ocean

[44:56] and every plastic bottle.

[44:57] But I can!

[44:59] I need to do something about this cause

[45:01] and I need to raise money for this.

[45:03] I'm in a different place right now.

[45:06] I'm considering two things.

[45:07] I'm considering seeking less,

[45:13] being less, being less of a seeker and more here.

[45:19] I don't know what that means yet, but I might just try

[45:23] just living (laughs) and just really being present.

[45:29] That being my service.

[45:32] Also, and even this phrase has made me

[45:35] just like rile before,

[45:37] I think I might try staying in my lane

[45:40] and just really...

[45:41] You know for years I've been preaching about you know,

[45:43] be yourself and authenticity.

[45:46] But I'm getting it on a deeper level.

[45:48] Like, this is what I do best.

[45:52] It turns out that what I do best brings me joy.

[45:58] Oh, so maybe me being joyful,

[46:02] maybe me moving towards just the joy projects

[46:05] is really how I can make the most impact.

[46:09] There is no, I don't need to accommodate suffering

[46:13] in that at all.

[46:16] It's taken a while Chase, but I think I'm there.

[46:20] - Well, let's pull on that.

[46:21] Is that a, does that underpin, like the way I talk about it

[46:27] in very brutish, this is maybe sort of male underbite

[46:31] concept here, but--

[46:33] - Give me the dude speak I love it!

[46:35] - Okay, you got two jobs.

[46:37] Job one is find out what you love

[46:40] and job two is to do that thing.

[46:44] Can you harmonize what I just said with what you,

[46:48] stay in your lane and know yourself.

[46:50] Is it know thyself, is that what we're hitting all this

[46:53] like...

[46:54] - I think it's love thyself.

[46:55] I think know thyself and love what you know

[46:57] because I've been doing what I love for a long time.

[47:03] But with this guilt complex that it could always be more.

[47:08] For me it wasn't just about more money or more clicks

[47:12] it was always like, who else can I help and save.

[47:16] I've messed up lots of times and I've been unhelpful

[47:18] and said things that have hurt people,

[47:21] but just, you know, there's that scene at the end

[47:25] of Schindler's List.

[47:26] I am not comparing myself to Oscar Schindler,

[47:30] but you know, for those of the people who haven't seen

[47:33] the movie, he saved hundreds and hundreds of people

[47:37] from the gas chambers, Jewish people.

[47:42] At the end, and he did it by selling pieces of jewelry

[47:47] and false documentation.

[47:49] He's almost driven himself mad with his devotion to serve

[47:53] and he just says, if I just did it,

[47:55] I gotta do one more person.

[47:59] When I saw that that was aspirational for me.

[48:03] But I missed the insanity part of that.

[48:07] Now that's a completely different situation.

[48:08] We're talking about something absolutely purely horrific.

[48:12] I'm just trying to inspire people on Instagram, you know?

[48:16] I think I've had some unhealthy madness around that.

[48:19] That is all about some wound, wanting to be loved,

[48:22] wanting to sane.

[48:23] I'm gonna make myself useful.

[48:25] I'm useful.

[48:26] If I am joyful I am being of service. (fingers snapping)

[48:29] Got it.

[48:31] - How do you find joy?

[48:33] - Aw, this is joyful for me, like a real conversation.

[48:39] I like looking for stuff and telling people what I found

[48:43] knowing that, praying that, it might

[48:49] alleviate some suffering and it might inspire some kindness.

[48:56] You know, I'm about, this is immediate joy for me.

[48:59] I'm about to lock myself in a hotel room for three days

[49:01] and figure out what my next thing is.

[49:03] I tell ya, hi, room service and just making notes.

[49:10] Then we're gonna make it all beautiful

[49:12] and not put it on Facebook.

[49:15] - But put it in a book. - That's joy!

[49:17] - Or is that a thing?

[49:18] - I don't know, I mean my assignment right now

[49:20] for my team is please only do what you love

[49:25] because if you don't we have to pivot and it costs us money.

[49:29] Got it!

[49:33] So just be inspired, Danielle, don't drive us crazy

[49:38] and I think well, I don't know if it's a book

[49:41] or it's gonna be an online program, is it gonna be a course.

[49:43] Maybe I should do something with Creative Live.

[49:45] They're just like, you just go be pure,

[49:47] we'll figure out how to monetize it.

[49:50] I thought well, that's what I'm gonna do.

[49:53] - Is that your normal methodology for working?

[49:56] - No, this is a bit of a change up.

[49:58] So normally, because I cannot separate entrepreneurship

[50:03] from artistry, love the game, I love the publishing game.

[50:07] I do love the metrics as unattached to them as I try to be.

[50:12] Normally, I like to see the package.

[50:17] This is very new for me.

[50:19] Just like, this is in me and it's been baking

[50:24] and I mean, I'm about to write about my pain!

[50:28] I don't know, I don't know if that's a course.

[50:33] But I gotta go get it out.

[50:35] - What was the title?

[50:36] - Crave cigarettes all weekend but I won't smoke.

[50:37] - What was the working title?

[50:39] - The working title is Things I Do When I'm In Pain.

[50:44] Would you buy that book?

[50:47] - Talk to me about faux freedoms.

[50:49] - Oh faux freedoms.

[50:51] What have I got to say about faux freedoms?

[50:59] This happens a lot, let's talk, all right,

[51:02] let's talk burning men,

[51:03] although I've never been to burning men.

[51:08] Get free, let your inner child loose, be more tantric,

[51:15] tap your deep sexuality, let's get naked,

[51:17] let's grease up, let's get each other off in this workshop.

[51:21] You know, that's not freedom for everybody.

[51:24] But because this is that,

[51:28] there's this conversation around sovereignty

[51:31] and sexual freedom and it's well packaged

[51:36] and it's all filtered.

[51:38] Then my experience is, there's a lot of women who are

[51:42] on the personal development path who feel like prudes

[51:47] in contrast to that particular kind of freedom conversation.

[51:53] No fucking way is a form of liberation.

[51:58] Say, I'm not gonna dance in this circle.

[52:01] I don't feel safe.

[52:03] I'm not gonna drop my pants in this community

[52:06] with somebody I don't even know because you're telling me

[52:10] that I'm repressed?

[52:11] No.

[52:12] So yeah, that comes from that.

[52:16] - Is it just in the sexual arena and is it just for women

[52:20] or in your world this faux freedom says it expand to like,

[52:23] if there's a cultural,

[52:25] almost like there's a cultural narrative that's saying,

[52:29] we've discovered gold and if you're not chasing the gold

[52:33] over here then you're not involved.

[52:37] - Yeah, and I think the faux freedom comes in the pressure

[52:39] to share a lot in personal development settings.

[52:44] Listen, your, listen Chase.

[52:48] - I'm listening, you got my full attention

[52:50] and thousands and thousands and thousands of people.

[52:53] - How a lot of the self help stuff is being presented

[53:01] and you know, it might not be the best thing for you

[53:04] to share your deepest, darkest secrets and your stories

[53:08] of sexual abuse or infidelity or whatever it is,

[53:12] in a ballroom under fluorescent lights

[53:14] with a bunch of strangers.

[53:16] I think that can be retraumatizing and freshly traumatizing

[53:20] to some people and there's a lot of ogreish, patriarchal

[53:28] lording that's happening in those situations.

[53:31] We're losing a sense of the sacred that

[53:36] some of those things are meant to be shared with someone

[53:38] who's gonna walk the journey with you.

[53:41] They're skilled psychotherapists,

[53:45] or they're your best friend who loves you no matter what.

[53:49] That prodding I have a real problem with.

[53:54] Doesn't mean you can't have an amazing breakthrough.

[53:56] I've been in a lot of those workshops and the CEO stands up

[54:00] and says, balls his eyes out, and he's shaking,

[54:03] he says, "My mother never told me she loved me."

[54:05] That reconstitutes his brain chemistry.

[54:10] It's just not for everybody

[54:12] and we need to leave space for that.

[54:15] - Is the White Hot Truth just the thing that we are

[54:20] all this sort of awareness might not be making this better?

[54:24] - Yeah, yeah.

[54:26] The White Hot Truth, I mean really, I should have,

[54:28] I would retitle the book, because I know I wat to rewrite

[54:30] or burn everything, it would have been,

[54:33] You Are Your Own Guru.

[54:38] That's the message.

[54:39] That's the path.

[54:40] Nobody can predict the future.

[54:44] Your body knows if it's a yes or a no.

[54:46] You have the capacity to know if it's a yes or a no.

[54:52] It's 50/50 whether you're gonna get it right or not

[54:53] so just follow your own heart and build that agency.

[55:00] I want to make my own mistakes.

[55:01] I don't want to do what somebody else told me

[55:03] and fuck it up.

[55:03] I want to fuck it up in my own way.

[55:08] - I'm obsessed with intuition and following the gut

[55:13] and I only have really strong experiences of it

[55:17] not going well when I listen to other people.

[55:22] Even if I follow your, the point that you just made,

[55:26] even if I follow my tuition, intuition and I fuck it up,

[55:31] it doesn't feel like a fuck up.

[55:32] It feels like it was supposed to happen.

[55:34] - A stepping stone.

[55:36] - Versus when I follow someone else's things

[55:38] and I fuck it up I'm like, I knew better.

[55:41] Is this normal?

[55:42] This is, I feel like I'm alone in this.

[55:45] - So normal.

[55:46] I think we learn through contrast so you gotta do that.

[55:49] I mean, this gets into the hero's journey stuff, right.

[55:51] Like, the hero always believes a lie.

[55:57] Like there's some, there's always like false information

[56:01] planted on the journey.

[56:04] That's the rub.

[56:05] You go, I knew, won't do that again.

[56:08] And we do it three more times.

[56:14] - Can we talk about, go back to you more personally?

[56:16] Thank you for sharing some trauma with us

[56:19] just a little bit ago.

[56:20] Let's talk about some tactics.

[56:22] We talked about some of the meditation habits that you have.

[56:25] What is a morning look like for you?

[56:27] - Morning, well I've recently become a morning person.

[56:30] - On purpose, because you thought it was more virtuous?

[56:33] - 'Cause I met a dude. (laughs)

[56:36] - And dude's like yo, I'm getting up at five so are you.

[56:38] - Kind of.

[56:40] And I was inspired by the way he was living his mornings

[56:44] and I was like, yeah, there's something to this.

[56:47] I'd always been a night person, but now I get,

[56:49] it's almost like reverse psychology.

[56:51] If I get up early enough I feel like it's late.

[56:53] (laughing)

[56:56] So I'm gonna get a lot of stuff done.

[56:59] Tactical morning, so I'm now just, I don't start work

[57:03] until 10 a.m. and it used to be that

[57:07] I just noticed as a pattern, I was not getting to my desk

[57:09] until 10 a.m., but the guilt I was having for not getting

[57:13] there until 10 was ridiculous.

[57:15] It's like why don't I just declare it my natural.

[57:19] So by the time I so all my stuff and maybe do a couple

[57:22] laps around the lake or walk with my kid to school,

[57:27] it always ends up being like around 10.

[57:30] So that's when I start and I'm so excited to do my thing.

[57:33] I run up my stairs and what was the question?

[57:39] - Just like what's the morning.

[57:40] - That's the morning. - Yeah, that's the morning.

[57:42] - There's always music.

[57:44] Sonos has been revolutionary in my life.

[57:47] All I wanted when I got so called enough success

[57:51] to be able to afford a few things was a hot tub

[57:53] and surround sound. (laughing)

[57:57] It sounds like some bad disco party, but...

[58:00] - Together it's very potent right.

[58:02] - Music immediately. - Immediately?

[58:06] Like what time did you wake up this morning

[58:08] and what music did you listen to?

[58:10] - Well I always, this is super woo,

[58:12] I always have particular mantras playing in one room

[58:16] of the house 24/7.

[58:19] Like if I leave the house for two weeks,

[58:20] there's a mantra playing.

[58:22] It is like baking the air with sonic awesomeness.

[58:25] But then in the other rooms, oh my God, the new Hosier

[58:28] is out, beautiful.

[58:32] Nat King Cole was going on.

[58:33] Gretta van Fleet is really big in our house right now.

[58:36] The Killers, Florence and the Machine.

[58:39] - Okay so music, that's the morning.

[58:41] I get it you start work about 10.

[58:43] You talk about eating clean.

[58:46] Are you prescriptive about that?

[58:47] Is it vegetarian, is it vegan, is it protein,

[58:49] is it slow carb, is it like?

[58:51] Or just like this is a speed round here.

[58:54] - Mostly plant based and I feel really guilty

[58:57] 'cause Rich Roll is a friend and no, I'm not a vegan yet.

[59:02] I have the conversation about vegetarianism with everybody

[59:06] I can, I'm just like, what about the guilt

[59:07] and humane killing and I, right now I'm a vegetarian,

[59:11] but I may could change any day.

[59:13] - Got it.

[59:14] So is that philosophical or is it scientific

[59:18] for you and your gut?

[59:19] - It's all of the above.

[59:20] I mean, it's about food production and food security.

[59:25] I mean, as Paul McCartney puts it,

[59:27] if I think he underwrote a documentary called

[59:30] If Slaughter Houses Had Glass Walls.

[59:34] If we saw how our meat was produced we might not be

[59:37] so down with it.

[59:39] It's bad for the animals.

[59:42] And it's not great in terms of, if you consider yourself

[59:45] an environmentalist, you would not be consuming meat at all.

[59:52] So all those reasons.

[59:54] - Evening routine.

[59:55] What does that feel like?

[59:57] You used to be a night person and now you're kinda like

[59:59] rolling back a little bit.

[1:00:01] - Part of being a morning person

[1:00:02] is like having two days in one.

[1:00:04] So I really like that shut down phase now

[1:00:06] where it's like dinner is wrapped and you're really moving

[1:00:11] towards the slow down.

[1:00:13] So for me, that's, the kid's on guitar or it's texting

[1:00:17] with somebody and

[1:00:22] it's maybe a documentary.

[1:00:25] Bathing is a big part of my life.

[1:00:28] The hot tub and salt baths and essential oils

[1:00:31] and it's very intentional and ritualistic.

[1:00:36] There's usually some light thing I do,

[1:00:39] prayer before I go to sleep, but really,

[1:00:43] we are rocking until, I have to say we gotta hit the sack.

[1:00:47] Like music, it's basically a rock show in my house.

[1:00:51] - Can I confess? - Yeah.

[1:00:53] - I'm a huge hot water cold water person.

[1:00:56] Love water.

[1:00:57] Less baths, like I do like salts are incredible,

[1:01:01] but I end up just hot and cold water.

[1:01:05] I've kind of been passionate about it for about five years,

[1:01:08] but most recently at my home here in Seattle

[1:01:10] I had a cold plunge.

[1:01:11] So it's sort of a hot tub and a cold plunge.

[1:01:13] - That's so hardcore.

[1:01:14] - It's awesome.

[1:01:16] - What does it do for you?

[1:01:18] - I do it every morning. - Every morning?

[1:01:20] - Just as an example, I caught a six a.m. flight

[1:01:23] not too long ago, so that's up at four in the cold plunge

[1:01:26] at 4:15, Uber 4:45

[1:01:30] to be at the airport at 5:15 for a 6:00 flight.

[1:01:33] - Okay I'm impressed.

[1:01:35] - Not all the time. - But that's okay.

[1:01:37] - Nine out of 10 days, if I'm in Seattle,

[1:01:39] I will be in that freaking cold plunge.

[1:01:41] I have had to break ice, it's outside.

[1:01:44] So I have literally had to break ice.

[1:01:46] I use my heel is a good ice breaking tool to get into

[1:01:49] the cold plunge and I love it, it's passionate.

[1:01:51] So it has, I feel like it is a, I had this experience today.

[1:01:59] I feel like you're my therapist right now.

[1:02:02] Tell me, tell me Chase.

[1:02:04] - And I reminded you of?

[1:02:08] - I had a lot going on in my brain.

[1:02:09] My brain was very active.

[1:02:11] - Well 'cause you're interviewing me today.

[1:02:12] So I'm sure--

[1:02:13] - Lot, very stressed, stressful,

[1:02:15] what am I gonna ask her, this conversation's gonna feel

[1:02:18] so forced.

[1:02:20] No, just I had a head full of yuck this morning.

[1:02:24] (snapping fingers)

[1:02:26] Cold water, 30 seconds, I do a dunk and then I stay

[1:02:29] up to my chin for at least 30 seconds,

[1:02:32] sometimes five minutes.

[1:02:34] And it was, euphoric,

[1:02:39] it is cleansing.

[1:02:41] I feel like it is, makes me like a caveman.

[1:02:46] In a super good way. - That primal power.

[1:02:49] - Simple primal like.

[1:02:51] When people's like oh my God it's so cold!

[1:02:53] I actually, you mentioned contrast.

[1:02:56] So I get 105 degree water first and then I do this.

[1:02:59] When I get out, it is like, this is outside.

[1:03:02] Doesn't matter what time of year, it could be 25 degrees

[1:03:05] in the pouring rain or snow I guess.

[1:03:08] If it's 25 degrees and that's not in Canada 25

[1:03:10] this is U.S. 25,

[1:03:13] I feel warm, I feel comfortable.

[1:03:17] Because cold water is cold and when you get out

[1:03:19] it is, I feel invigorated.

[1:03:21] So I'm curious about the bath.

[1:03:23] Does the bath, what?

[1:03:24] - I want to talk about what happens for you there.

[1:03:27] So there's all this physiological stuff that happens.

[1:03:29] I mean we know in your brain that you're firing right.

[1:03:34] But what I've learned with personal development stuff

[1:03:38] is that the times where I've been say,

[1:03:41] in some state of suffering, which can range from

[1:03:44] something really trying has happened to like I just woke up

[1:03:48] feeling a little funky, you know?

[1:03:50] If I can push myself in some physical way,

[1:03:55] in moments of suffering, emotional suffering,

[1:03:59] it's like exponential benefit.

[1:04:02] So you know, like just referencing I just did the three day

[1:04:06] intense therapy thing and crying for three days,

[1:04:09] working on my shit and I have this opportunity like,

[1:04:13] go up a whole lot of feet on this mountain

[1:04:16] when I was exhausted, let's go.

[1:04:19] This is a kundalini yoga is great for this like,

[1:04:21] you know right now I'm doing like, days of 108 frogs

[1:04:26] and you just burn the shit off.

[1:04:29] When I got fired from my own company a friend called,

[1:04:33] my own lawyer has just threatened to sue me

[1:04:37] 'cause I got canned.

[1:04:39] I was losing it and she was like, you need to go in your

[1:04:43] living room and do some kundalini yoga right now.

[1:04:45] That changed my life and my relationship to physical

[1:04:50] endurance and emotional suffering.

[1:04:53] I should just get a cold plunge. (laughs)

[1:04:55] - It's way cheaper, way easier.

[1:04:58] What I found out is that there is actually,

[1:05:01] I had to have two, this might make it easier for the folks

[1:05:04] at home, like oh my God, it sounds fancy.

[1:05:06] Hot tub's kind of fancy.

[1:05:08] I acknowledge that and said it's a luxury.

[1:05:10] - You just put your ass in a Rubbermaid,

[1:05:11] is that what you did?

[1:05:13] - Mine, it's fancy, but it doesn't have it's own set

[1:05:16] of pool equipment.

[1:05:17] Because I didn't have any place to put it in my house.

[1:05:20] But it is, nonetheless, it is concrete and it says very cold

[1:05:23] it's very underground, the water comes from underground.

[1:05:25] There's a bunch of other things that I did.

[1:05:27] I split homes, I have a home here

[1:05:29] and a home in San Francisco.

[1:05:31] In San Francisco it equals cold shower.

[1:05:33] So I don't have to have all the stuff.

[1:05:35] It's not about the stuff, but I do find like there's this

[1:05:38] some sacred sort of feeling about

[1:05:40] now I'm doing my cold thing.

[1:05:41] This is for me and it makes me feel good.

[1:05:43] So cold showers work too.

[1:05:45] - Yeah, ice on the face too, great.

[1:05:47] Ladies, great for the skin.

[1:05:49] - Give me a handful of other things that you do

[1:05:51] that people would be surprised to know about you,

[1:05:53] like ice on the face.

[1:05:55] - Ice on the face.

[1:05:58] I ingest essential oils.

[1:06:00] So not just diffusing them or smelling them.

[1:06:03] Key ones I actually sublingually and you just get the hit.

[1:06:08] - Is that something that you need to have a prescription

[1:06:10] for, is that a doctor advised,

[1:06:12] like you can just gobble it down?

[1:06:14] - Four drops of frankincense and what ails you.

[1:06:19] - What else?

[1:06:20] - What other things?

[1:06:21] I pivot before I get out of my car or I am on the phone.

[1:06:26] So, I always have a moment to myself of like,

[1:06:28] why am I getting out, what's my intention, what am I doing?

[1:06:31] So I've set moments through my day that I've declared

[1:06:35] as pivot moments to just be present.

[1:06:38] Think, don't just get out, just.

[1:06:40] - Like when you touch a door knob or when you hear

[1:06:42] a bell ring or those things that?

[1:06:45] Are those good examples or?

[1:06:47] - I give thanks as soon as I walk into my home.

[1:06:49] Thank you everybody all the great spirits who are here

[1:06:53] who support me.

[1:06:53] I mean I really treat my home like it's a temple.

[1:06:59] I pay very close attention to like the new moon.

[1:07:02] I make my wishes.

[1:07:03] I only write in pencil.

[1:07:06] - You only write in pencil? - I only write in pencil.

[1:07:10] - What about checks, you signing many checks in pencil?

[1:07:12] - When's the last time you wrote a check?

[1:07:14] - Someone said that the other day,

[1:07:15] did you bring your checkbook, and I was like,

[1:07:16] someone has a checkbook?

[1:07:17] I want to see one of these things!

[1:07:18] I haven't seen a checkbook since like '87.

[1:07:22] - I'm very into batching my time.

[1:07:26] So if I'm gonna create,

[1:07:28] there cannot be one phone call that day, not one.

[1:07:31] I don't want to interact with the human race at all.

[1:07:35] I need to have, I mean ideally I have three days a week

[1:07:38] like that that are unscheduled.

[1:07:40] Then I'll batch, I'll do four podcasts.

[1:07:43] - Yeah, but I got the kids and I got a mortgage

[1:07:45] and I got, I can't have three days.

[1:07:47] Danielle, help me.

[1:07:49] - Then 24 hours will rock your world.

[1:07:52] Do what you can, do what you can.

[1:07:54] - Do what you can with what you have.

[1:07:57] Last one, any, I'm just looking for--

[1:08:02] - The cure?

[1:08:03] - Yeah, people want a silver bullet and it's my goal

[1:08:06] with this show and part Creative Live like,

[1:08:10] there's no magic here.

[1:08:12] But-- - But there is.

[1:08:14] - There's been something in your life that has been

[1:08:18] somewhat of a catapult.

[1:08:21] It's been a game changer, it's been, I don't want it to be

[1:08:24] like list like cliche terms one after another,

[1:08:27] but there's been something

[1:08:29] and it's not a silver bullet, but something has had

[1:08:36] transformative effect on you.

[1:08:37] That's what in part we're all searching for is

[1:08:42] either, even if it's been my transformational thing,

[1:08:45] is to realize that I'm okay right now

[1:08:47] and that whatever the thing is, like I don't want to,

[1:08:49] I'm just trying to give you the range

[1:08:51] of whatever you say it is.

[1:08:53] That is just be just fine answer but there's been something.

[1:08:56] If you can look, we can only connect the dots

[1:08:58] looking backwards, look backwards for me right now.

[1:09:03] What's been something that's made

[1:09:05] a ton of difference in your life?

[1:09:08] - A ton difference in my life?

[1:09:15] Just declaring that I'm a loving person.

[1:09:22] Even if I fuck up I'm fundamentally mostly a loving person.

[1:09:31] That gives me so much courage to show up

[1:09:35] and so much padding when the world is cruel.

[1:09:43] I just believe that I'm good.

[1:09:46] It's getting me by, yeah.

[1:09:51] - No better way to end.

[1:09:52] I gotta stop there. (laughing)

[1:09:54] That's the best ending to the show I could possibly fathom.

[1:09:56] No honestly, thank you so much for being

[1:10:00] so vulnerable and sharing so much and congratulations.

[1:10:04] We're looking for this new book about pain.

[1:10:07] - Yeah, we'll see if it happens, yeah.

[1:10:09] - It's stunning.

[1:10:10] Thank you so much for sharing everything

[1:10:11] you shared with us today.

[1:10:13] Show notes, all that stuff, we'll compile it,

[1:10:15] we'll share everything.

[1:10:17] So what's the best place for people to find ya?

[1:10:18] - DanielleLaPort.com.

[1:10:19] Center of my universe is Instagram @DanielleLaPort

[1:10:22] if I'm still there tomorrow. (laughs)

[1:10:24] - When you'll be locked in a hotel for three days.

[1:10:28] Thank you so much for being a part of the show.

[1:10:30] And gentlemen, please give her a shout out on social.

[1:10:33] Follow her, pay attention to what she's doing.

[1:10:34] She's been changing my life and the lives of so many

[1:10:36] and I hope you have a great day.

[1:10:38] I'll look for you tomorrow.

[1:10:40] I'll be here, hope you will be too.

[1:10:42] Bye!

[1:10:43] (driving instrumental music)

Danielle LaPorte
ArtistDanielle LaPorte

Danielle LaPorte is a Vancouver-based heart centered leader, author and philanthropist, creator of the Heart Centered Membership and host of the With Love, Danielle podcast.

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Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

LaPorte suggests that self-love isn't contingent on accomplishment—it's the baseline. The real work is recognizing that you're already whole, and growth comes from that wholeness, not toward it. Most of us have been taught that we need to fix ourselves first, but that creates a permanent state of inadequacy.
LaPorte built her empire on social media and now questions whether the cost is worth it. While platforms are powerful for reach, she's examining whether there are better ways to serve your work without poisoning yourself in the process—and whether the constant optimization is actually serving your business or just the platform.
Conscious growth is intentional and aligned with what nourishes you; toxic growth is driven by external metrics and a permanent sense of inadequacy. The question to ask: Does this actually serve me, or am I just trying to improve myself into acceptability?
The Desire Map approach suggests getting quiet and asking: What do I actually want to feel? When you know your emotional target, you can refuse anything that doesn't move you toward it. Most of us don't say no because we don't know what we're actually choosing for.
Rather than focusing on external achievements, the Desire Map asks what emotional state you're chasing. Instead of 'I want to make six figures,' you ask 'I want to feel secure and free.' That clarity of feeling is often more clarifying than a goal, and it changes what you'll actually pursue.
Presence—being fully here, not scrolling, not optimizing—is the opposite of what the attention economy rewards. To be truly present is to step out of the productivity loop, and that refusal itself is a form of liberation and self-determination.

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