Transcript
[0:00] [Music]
[0:02] welcome dr. Lauren Fishman to our live
[0:05] webinar tonight and welcome to all our
[0:08] guests joining us from around the
[0:10] country I know we have some people from
[0:12] other parts of the world that join in
[0:14] too so welcome dr. Lauren well thank you
[0:19] how are you doing tonight I'm doing cool
[0:25] everything's okay
[0:27] so for those of us joining us perhaps
[0:30] for the first time we do this weekly
[0:32] live webinar with a lot of really great
[0:35] teachers speakers authors many of whom
[0:39] are coming through the retreat center in
[0:41] Boone North Carolina and leading
[0:43] workshops dr. Lauren himself is leading
[0:46] a workshop on yogin osteoporosis this
[0:49] summer which we're very much looking
[0:52] forward and we can talk about some of
[0:55] these topics but also just insights and
[0:58] thoughts to help us thrive in the week
[1:00] ahead that's the the overview so welcome
[1:03] everyone and welcome dr. Lauren well
[1:05] thank you so how are you doing I they're
[1:12] also doing well glad the the weather is
[1:16] picking up a little you know Nick the
[1:19] Heat's getting better which is nice it's
[1:20] been a little cold not too bad not too
[1:24] bad nothing like the Northeast I know
[1:27] it's terrible up here now it's spring
[1:31] spring is really a hit in North Carolina
[1:33] that's why I'm very glad to hear it up
[1:36] here it's like it's like Afghanistan
[1:38] really where the the Sun is warm but the
[1:41] air is very cool that's what it feels
[1:45] like in the high plateau or most of
[1:47] Afghanistan finds itself and you've
[1:49] traveled a lot both in your your
[1:52] teaching as well as in your studies is
[1:54] that true yes that's right yeah and I
[1:57] think you mentioned you studied in
[1:59] England and then you also study in India
[2:02] or your teaching in India well I studied
[2:04] in England I was at Oxford I got an
[2:07] advanced degree in foundations of
[2:09] mathematics and then I went to India
[2:11] because it seemed to me that
[2:14] the read to look for the foundations of
[2:17] mathematics you know where does
[2:18] mathematics come from the best I could
[2:21] do was to think of grammar like a long
[2:25] reach for you and me being is with idea
[2:28] being that no one does math who doesn't
[2:30] have language and that language has
[2:32] rules for construction of proper
[2:34] sentences and how the parts of speech
[2:37] and so on and that's just like
[2:39] mathematics hmm very good place to look
[2:42] for it and the first grammarian also the
[2:45] first yogi by the way and a physician
[2:47] was named Patanjali and so I went there
[2:50] I wasn't there very long before I
[2:52] realized that the average three year old
[2:55] was knew better Sanskrit or at least a
[2:58] language close to Sanskrit than then I
[3:00] would ever know noodle quest to try to
[3:04] become so expert in Sanskrit so I didn't
[3:07] instead I just devoted my time to
[3:09] looking for liberated people well plenty
[3:13] of noise and what was the result of that
[3:15] quest well my my friend at the time said
[3:22] to me one day I found mr. Iyengar's book
[3:24] someone in Bombay an Englishman
[3:28] underground they gave me this book and
[3:30] said you know you got a look at this and
[3:32] I took a look at it and I realized it
[3:33] was better yoga than I had ever seen
[3:36] I by a long way and so I resolved to do
[3:39] every pose in the book which I could do
[3:40] which wasn't that many poses at the time
[3:42] but I did the best I could
[3:44] twice a day every morning and every
[3:46] evening and then my friend looked looked
[3:50] at where he was and she said hey you
[3:52] know he's only a couple of hundred miles
[3:54] away why don't I go visit him and said I
[3:56] left on a train and we went and knocked
[3:59] on his door and he I had a wait a week
[4:02] he was in England or somewhere I had to
[4:03] take a hotel a couple blocks away and
[4:06] when I finally came back when he was
[4:08] there I knocked on the door he opened it
[4:10] you could tell it was he was sleeping
[4:12] it's sort of a Indian Ocean siesta and
[4:18] he said what do you want I said I want
[4:21] to learn your yoga he said why do you
[4:23] want to learn my yoga I said because I
[4:25] want to heal you challenge
[4:27] again he said why'd you want to heal
[4:29] looked at me like that I said yes I want
[4:32] to heal he said that's my great thing
[4:34] come on in so I stayed I kept the room
[4:38] in the hotel for a year I stayed and I
[4:41] learned so many much he was highly
[4:44] intelligent and and very generous with
[4:48] his time his knowledge and I want to
[4:51] stay with his care and he cared for his
[4:54] sizeable flock so there were many other
[4:58] students around at that time well there
[5:00] was there were people who lived in
[5:02] Bombay and in Pune where he was who
[5:04] would gather together on the weekends he
[5:07] would go to Bombay and he would teach in
[5:08] this church where he would have maybe 50
[5:10] or 60 people and in those days in India
[5:15] men and women couldn't be in the same
[5:18] yoga class if they were Hindu the most
[5:21] hideous patient was for Jane or they
[5:25] were RC yeah and they were they were
[5:29] sort of like the the not outcast by any
[5:31] means
[5:32] but not in the centre of society removed
[5:35] the you know the parties are
[5:37] zoroastrians yeah they came from Iran
[5:40] and then one or another migration and
[5:43] these people were forward-looking and a
[5:46] little bit willing to take risks a
[5:48] little bit and his classes were three
[5:51] hours long and very intense and he was
[5:55] taught one on Saturday and one on Sunday
[5:57] then we'd go back to Bombay back to Pune
[5:59] and spend the week there hear classes
[6:02] just about every day so that was that
[6:06] was his he didn't have that many foreign
[6:08] students when I was there he had maybe
[6:10] 10 five or six you know it buried there
[6:16] were everything from Jesuit priests to
[6:19] dancers from South Africa you know he
[6:24] said I want to heal and he said that's
[6:26] my specialty come on in and then you
[6:29] know from there you've got on and
[6:31] written a book on yoga for osteoporosis
[6:33] and you know pioneered some of their
[6:35] research what was that transition like
[6:38] how did
[6:39] come about well I was in India and I
[6:43] realized that I I realize yoga worked
[6:45] yoga did things on my curiosity and
[6:48] whetted my curiosity I don't know how
[6:50] does yoga work and they have combined
[6:54] with the misery you see in India made me
[6:57] resolve to be a doctor so I went to
[6:59] medical school but the other reason I
[7:02] went to medical school was to learn how
[7:03] yoga worked and I actually believe I
[7:07] have found some of the ways yoga works
[7:08] and when you say their words like what
[7:11] did you notice what did you observe my
[7:15] first experience was actually in Bombay
[7:16] with drug addicts who would come to me
[7:19] for some reason or other they regarded
[7:21] me as a doctor like person and they
[7:24] would come to me and say you got to help
[7:25] me I'm addicted and I found giving them
[7:28] not many five or six yoga poses which
[7:31] they did with great religiosity you know
[7:33] and then with great hope in their hearts
[7:35] because they didn't want to be taking
[7:37] these drugs I found that it actually
[7:39] brought them off of taking morphine and
[7:42] cocaine and other kinds of drugs so that
[7:47] was one thing then I noticed many other
[7:50] you know just incidental things for
[7:52] shoulder pain for neck pain indigestion
[7:56] there are a number of ways that yoga
[7:57] really does seem to do the job wasn't
[8:01] very long after I taught yoga in medical
[8:04] school uh a couple of doctors and some
[8:07] fellow medical students and some nurses
[8:09] but then after I started in private
[8:11] practice I was an on the staff at Albert
[8:16] Einstein I actually began using yoga to
[8:21] cure people so in a way it was the
[8:24] opposite I went learning how yoga works
[8:26] I ended up using yoga because it works I
[8:29] think the thing that I've done that is
[8:32] not special anymore but I think I was
[8:34] one of the first to do this was to
[8:36] employ medical science to prove and to
[8:41] understand how yoga works and that's the
[8:44] osteoporosis I mean there is a very good
[8:46] test to determine whether your bone
[8:49] mineral density is high or low and you
[8:52] know to to numerically
[8:53] quantify it that's called the DEXA scan
[8:56] the dual x-ray absorptiometry yes sir
[9:02] what a word and I had the image that
[9:07] Yoga must work for to build your bones
[9:11] or the Yogi's wouldn't be getting so old
[9:13] so healthily and so I had confidence in
[9:20] it but many of my friends said don't
[9:22] teach yoga to people with osteoporosis
[9:25] you're gonna break their bones you're
[9:29] doing took two years and I I did a pilot
[9:32] study I invited people to come to my
[9:35] office after work like 5:30 to 6:30 once
[9:38] a week for two years and I divided these
[9:41] people into two groups one group got the
[9:43] yoga one group didn't get the yoga in
[9:45] both groups I got these decks of scans
[9:48] to find out how they were doing when
[9:49] they started well then two years later I
[9:52] got an another decks of skin on both
[9:54] groups and the ones who didn't do the
[9:56] yoga they lost a little bone not very
[9:58] much you know 0.05 you know not nothing
[10:01] much yeah once you did the yogurt they
[10:04] really gained a lot of bone really Wow
[10:06] now further there were no injuries
[10:10] nobody broke their bones nobody had a
[10:12] herniated disk nobody fell and injured
[10:15] themselves there were no injuries of any
[10:17] kind so I was heartened and I tell you
[10:20] the truth I got fire in my belly I got
[10:22] really interested because over 200
[10:25] million people in this world have
[10:27] osteoporosis and medicines are really
[10:30] formidable not for Madhab not great
[10:33] they're terrible work that well and in
[10:37] the most popular class of these
[10:39] medicines the bisphosphonates and a new
[10:42] cement Pro Prolia is another example
[10:45] they actually produce fractures they
[10:49] they prevent some fractures but they
[10:52] caused some others I mean the overall
[10:54] overall there's a net gain in bone
[10:56] health a net decrease in fractures but
[10:59] taking a medicine to avoid fractures
[11:02] that gives you fractures it doesn't
[11:04] sound like progress you
[11:05] so uh I made a DVD with some friends I
[11:11] mean a very eminent group of camera
[11:14] people from Harvard and a director from
[11:16] Columbia who's an Ashes she was at
[11:19] Sundance you know she's really good and
[11:20] a woman who was a second basically an
[11:24] understudy on Broadway gets apart but
[11:27] she just a beautiful voice so we made 12
[11:31] poses in three versions a baby baby
[11:34] version for people that have never done
[11:37] yoga or are very good at it an
[11:39] intermediate version which is a
[11:41] transition from the baby version to the
[11:43] classical pose and put it out in a DVD
[11:47] and I just I made a thousand copy I just
[11:50] gave him away I said I'm not gonna sell
[11:52] something that until I know it works you
[11:54] know I got to do that so so I thought I
[11:57] was able to give it to people all over I
[11:59] mean I have patients in Tasmania
[12:01] you know Shanghai Serbia you know all
[12:04] over the place and all they gonna do to
[12:06] be in this study was get some blood
[12:07] tests and a urine test to be sure there
[12:10] were no metabolic or nutritional
[12:11] hormonal causes because I'm not an
[12:13] austere yoga works for those I mean you
[12:16] can't have yoga instead of lunch they
[12:23] had to promise me they would tell the
[12:26] truth huh I want them flattering me and
[12:30] telling me they did the yoga when they
[12:32] didn't you know I said there's only one
[12:34] requirement here because I'm not there
[12:36] I'm not looking at them to be okay
[12:38] please be honest then we took about
[12:40] eight years before we had enough you
[12:42] know all all of them completed the at
[12:44] least two years of doing it and sent the
[12:47] results off to my statistician Harvard
[12:49] so it was going on and the results were
[12:51] really very gratifying I mean these
[12:54] people gained more bone in their spine
[12:56] than they would have on the medicines
[12:58] well they gained more more bone in their
[13:01] finger than they would have gained on
[13:03] the medicines and the hip it's the hip
[13:06] was a little complex because turns out
[13:08] there were different ways of measuring
[13:10] what's called the total hip it's a
[13:12] compendium score it's not just one
[13:14] number it's some people take a B and C
[13:16] and add them up some people take aid
[13:19] Efrain animal and there's a little
[13:22] variance oh that one they clearly did
[13:25] better than they did before they did the
[13:27] yoga but you statistically it was not
[13:29] significant for the for the hip okay
[13:32] with the spine and for the femur which
[13:34] other two by far the two most serious
[13:36] kinds of fractures that people get with
[13:39] osteoporosis was really highly
[13:41] significant doesn't cost anything you
[13:44] know you just do the yoga you know even
[13:47] our prison isn't figured out how to put
[13:49] a tax on yoga so what was the response
[13:54] like kind of before the study the
[13:58] research was published to this idea that
[14:00] yoga can help and cure verses after this
[14:03] research came out it's a very good
[14:07] question I mean before it came out I
[14:09] think many of the people that joined the
[14:11] study joined it not because they
[14:14] believed in yoga but because they were
[14:16] so upset and grossed out by the
[14:18] medicines in other words any port in a
[14:21] storm they really didn't want to take
[14:23] the medicines and they wanted to do
[14:24] something they pinned their hopes on
[14:26] something that they weren't sure would
[14:27] work but that was better than the
[14:29] medicines and now after the study has
[14:32] come out the study and my judgment has
[14:35] made a pretty solid impact on the yoga
[14:38] community and not just the yoga
[14:40] community the Harvard health letter put
[14:42] it in the New York Times wrote an
[14:44] article about it but it has not really
[14:50] transformed the medical community so
[14:54] we're seing movement in the general
[14:55] public in the yoga community but not yet
[14:57] in the medical establishment yeah so so
[15:02] I'm doing another study more or less on
[15:04] the model of draw of the drug companies
[15:06] where I do a dose-response
[15:09] well how much yoga are you doing how
[15:11] much bone are you building to see if
[15:13] these go together which will do go
[15:15] further towards establishing a causal
[15:18] chain a relationship so that's what I'm
[15:22] doing now and I must tell you just I
[15:25] have to brag I can't help but I saw a
[15:28] patient who just she's been doing this
[15:31] for one year
[15:32] yes and she's been a yoga teacher for 20
[15:36] years and even so she had osteoporosis
[15:38] her yes it was her her her funeral was
[15:42] minus 2.5 on the scale which is just on
[15:45] the line of osteoporosis and when and
[15:49] her her spine was minus 1.2 not that bad
[15:53] but osteopenia and she came back with
[15:58] another deck so one year after starting
[16:00] it now her her spine went down an
[16:05] unbelievable full point oh she went from
[16:10] minus 1.2 to - point - well I wonder
[16:15] I've never seen that before and all the
[16:17] thousand people I've treated and her
[16:20] femur went down from two point five
[16:23] minus two point five two minus two so
[16:26] these are really impressive gains in one
[16:29] year therefore if the future is like the
[16:33] past in another year well she's already
[16:35] gone from osteoporosis osteopenia but in
[16:38] another year she'll basically be barely
[16:41] asked you peanut buying will be positive
[16:44] will be plus to eat or something so so
[16:48] it's the new study what you have to do
[16:52] to be in the new study is same blogs and
[16:55] stuff but then you you have to find a
[16:58] yoga teacher who will watch you once
[17:01] every two weeks you will just observe
[17:05] you and we have an online database so
[17:07] people will put in their results every
[17:09] week or so there's five minutes to put
[17:11] on put the information there's not a big
[17:14] deal but I've trained teachers we go
[17:17] around now and train teachers as we're
[17:19] doing in North Carolina at the Art of
[17:22] Living we're going to train people to do
[17:24] exactly I'm about to describe to teach
[17:26] other people this yoga and it's not easy
[17:30] to learn I mean we have 20 hours online
[17:32] where you learn this sort of theoretical
[17:33] basis so you're comfortable with it and
[17:36] able to intelligently respond to people
[17:39] when they say but my cousin is taking
[17:41] this medicine and look what's happened
[17:42] to her and then we'll have intelligent
[17:44] ways of understanding what's really
[17:46] going
[17:46] informed and logical and secondly
[17:51] they'll get a deeper understanding of
[17:54] why the yoga does what it does and
[17:56] there's a test for the after the twenty
[18:00] hours online that's sort of the
[18:02] theoretical part then there are twenty
[18:03] hours on the ground twenty hours in the
[18:06] lab in the workshop which is what we're
[18:08] gonna do it in yo L I call it AOL yeah
[18:11] you call it that - no yeah yeah okay
[18:14] well and there we also give a test at
[18:18] the end we ask them to teach each other
[18:20] and we them because the the critical
[18:24] function of a teacher is first to
[18:25] inspire people to do it secondly to
[18:28] correct them so their alignment is good
[18:30] and third to progress them from the
[18:33] beginning poses so they can safely do
[18:36] the intermediate and safely go on from
[18:39] there to the classical poses and those
[18:42] are skills that I think maybe some
[18:44] people come by them naturally but they
[18:46] can be taught to and for you know people
[18:50] who are online listening and may be
[18:53] interested in this training and
[18:55] certification there will be a link to
[18:57] the training in the chat box as well as
[19:00] the comments also if you have questions
[19:03] you know feel free to put those in and
[19:05] this is a very a kind of live
[19:07] interactive session we do have one
[19:10] question already
[19:11] what does yoga do to the disintegrating
[19:15] cartilage and how and how well first
[19:19] osteoporosis ask your opinion are not
[19:20] cartilage disintegration they're bone
[19:23] and it's not really disintegration it's
[19:26] that there are cells they're called
[19:28] osteo sites osteoblasts which make bone
[19:32] and then there are cells called
[19:34] osteoclasts that eat up the bone return
[19:37] the protein to the systemic circulation
[19:39] so there's a given a take your or cells
[19:42] laying down bone here or cells eating up
[19:44] bone and what most of the medicines do
[19:47] just to give you some perspective is
[19:50] they the laying down of bone goes on
[19:52] unaffected but they disable and reduce
[19:55] the number of the cells that eat up
[20:00] so now in order to understand what yoga
[20:03] does you have to understand Wolf's law
[20:06] this is a 19th century German named
[20:10] Julius wolf was an anatomist and a
[20:12] surgeon and he disguise formulated that
[20:16] the the lines of force put upon a bone
[20:23] determine the laying down of bone he
[20:26] said it like this the architectonic of
[20:28] bone is determined by the lines of force
[20:30] to which that bone is subjected and I
[20:34] mean it's an interesting story
[20:35] it wasn't he it was another man in in
[20:38] colon and cologne in northern Germany
[20:40] with making a crane there an engineer he
[20:43] wandered into a Natural History Museum
[20:45] and he saw the bones of a vultures wing
[20:49] and he grasped us for it and he said
[20:52] mine got the the bones of the vultures
[20:56] wing more exactly what he was doing what
[20:59] the head of the crane know you know
[21:01] isn't God wonderful isn't what a how
[21:03] miraculous and he published a little
[21:05] paper and that's when Julius Wolf
[21:06] figured picked it up and he said I seen
[21:08] this all the time and that's when you
[21:10] formulated wolf's law and published it
[21:13] now what is will slalom most law states
[21:16] that if you put pressure on a bone it's
[21:19] going to build up more bone exactly
[21:21] where you put the pressure so it takes
[21:23] the head of the femur for a moment yeah
[21:25] when you're born your femur is dead
[21:28] straight little thick little arrow but
[21:32] by the time you're 5 years old it's bent
[21:33] like this because every time you take a
[21:35] step you cantilever off of that hip and
[21:39] the pressure is all in here so it builds
[21:41] up bone here and the bone over here gets
[21:43] no use at all so little by little it
[21:46] bends like that now that's not genetic
[21:48] because little children who
[21:50] unfortunately cannot ever walk you know
[21:53] children with spina bifida and cerebral
[21:56] palsy and stuff ear bones stay straight
[21:58] as an arrow even when they're 5 or 10 or
[22:01] 20 so with what's genetic is the
[22:04] propensity the ability to respond to the
[22:07] pressure that's built into all of us and
[22:10] let me tell you
[22:11] yoga puts more pressure on the
[22:13] bones than gravity huh that's I mean you
[22:17] would you like me to prove to you that
[22:18] yoga that your muscles are stronger than
[22:21] gravity I'm sure you would
[22:23] so here I go you ready yes teddy yes
[22:26] here I go move on this small bit
[22:38] interesting planet you know if you
[22:42] couldn't move the muscles be doing so
[22:45] yoga very often for example in soup
[22:48] departing gusta sana and in many poses
[22:51] is opposing one group of muscles with
[22:55] another so not only do you get many
[22:56] times the force of gravity we get many
[22:59] times the force of gravity multiplied
[23:01] times two because there are those
[23:03] pulling this way and those pulling this
[23:04] way and the bone is in the middle and
[23:06] that is my best explanation for how yoga
[23:10] does it now if you really are interested
[23:13] in cartilage I believe yoga does do
[23:16] fabulous things for cartilage too
[23:18] I don't know if you want me to explain
[23:20] this or not I certainly am happy to do
[23:23] it
[23:23] but it might be off the point I could
[23:28] say a little bit so in in off since on
[23:33] osteoarthritis don't we lose cartilage
[23:35] and how did you'll get help with that
[23:37] that's the follow-up on osteoarthritis
[23:40] of course that's not osteoporosis okay
[23:42] your arthritis is the joint
[23:45] let's join to this bone the joint of
[23:47] this phone osteoporosis is the middle
[23:50] yeah so that they're different they
[23:52] apply to different places but Yoga does
[23:55] help with osteoarthritis too and it
[23:58] doesn't in a variety of ways one ways I
[24:01] wish I could give you a picture of a
[24:03] good old joint why just man understand
[24:06] that maybe I can do that here the knee
[24:08] take the knee
[24:10] yes big bone here a little bone right
[24:12] there and then a large bone going all
[24:15] the way down yeah
[24:16] inside this joint is fluid and that
[24:20] fluid is critical to the joints proper
[24:23] functioning hmm because
[24:26] the cartilage that lines that joint
[24:29] needs oxygen glucose protein hormones
[24:33] and it also needs to get rid of the
[24:36] products of metabolism lactic acid and
[24:38] so on which are quite toxic so there are
[24:42] no blood vessels in these joints it
[24:44] would be terrible to have blood vessels
[24:46] in your knee because every time you took
[24:47] a step and they wouldn't last so it's
[24:52] the knee as a joint as a as a capsule
[24:54] that holds all the fluid in there and
[24:56] the walls of that capsule are filled
[24:59] with little blood vessels called
[25:01] synovium and they secrete the synovial
[25:05] fluid which floats around in there now
[25:07] what does yoga do well yoga makes sure
[25:10] through its eccentric and extreme
[25:12] motions make sure that that that fluid
[25:15] gets circulated to the very edges to the
[25:17] very tips and corners of the joint and
[25:20] it's those tips and corners that usually
[25:22] initiate osteoarthritis huh first
[25:25] secondly yoga this is a little more
[25:28] advanced than you wanted to know you
[25:30] don't want to know what this I'm going
[25:31] to tell you anyway yoga this stimulates
[25:36] the release of a chemical from our bone
[25:38] from our muscles called P G c1 alpha
[25:42] it's a really catchy name I know P G c1
[25:46] alpha and P G C 1 alpha happens to be
[25:49] first a very potent anti-inflammatory
[25:52] and it does reduce the incidence of all
[25:55] kinds of cancers gastrointestinal
[25:57] cancers genital cancers you know uterus
[26:00] breast prostate and and melanoma it
[26:03] really does reduce the incidence of
[26:05] those but also it's the strongest known
[26:09] stimulant for mitochondria mitochondria
[26:12] are those little tiny vesicles inside
[26:16] every cell every every animal cell I
[26:18] think there are one or two crazy
[26:20] exceptions and they're the power
[26:22] stations there would translate your food
[26:26] into energy you know that's where the
[26:29] Krebs cycle goes on it's where ATP is
[26:32] generated you know it's it's weird the
[26:35] cell gets its its energy
[26:38] and as I say yoga stimulates releasing a
[26:42] chemical which stimulates the
[26:45] mitochondria mm-hmm these strong
[26:47] customers in increasing the number of
[26:50] mitochondria and their activity and when
[26:53] it comes to joints and cartilage well
[26:57] the more and the more mitochondria you
[26:59] have the better they those cells are the
[27:01] stronger they are the more resistant to
[27:04] disease infection and damage well I mean
[27:10] there are other ways to but I think
[27:11] those are two big ones sure and to step
[27:14] back for a second what has been for you
[27:17] the most fascinating discovery in this
[27:19] whole journey well it's not very much
[27:25] for publication but the very the most
[27:26] interesting thing for me has been me
[27:30] I've learned so much about myself well I
[27:33] don't think I can I mean learning about
[27:36] osteoporosis has been wonderful we have
[27:38] some other cures for us for
[27:40] osteoarthritis for scoliosis that was
[27:43] pretty interesting we found a way to
[27:44] actually reverse scoliosis and we found
[27:47] a way to reduce the pain and increase
[27:50] the range of motion after rotator cuff I
[27:53] mean this arm of mine over here I had I
[27:56] won't tell you the whole story but I had
[27:58] a terrible rotator cuff and I could not
[28:00] raise my arm above here to save my soul
[28:02] I stood on my head one day I made
[28:07] appointments with the two greatest
[28:08] surgeons in New York for the shoulder
[28:10] and wait a month to see him instead of
[28:12] being a doctor myself and one day I just
[28:15] missed yoga so much I stood on my head
[28:16] the Iyengar way where you pull your
[28:18] shoulders away from your ears like my
[28:21] wife came downstairs she's in Lauren and
[28:25] I got up and ready to be sheepish but I
[28:27] realized I could raise my arm well I
[28:31] kept the two appointments with the
[28:33] doctors and I they ask me question after
[28:36] where they looked at my MRI which is a
[28:37] massive tear I mean it's the worst kind
[28:40] of tear you can get you know the two
[28:41] parts of the muscle are rent asunder
[28:43] about four centimeters and then then
[28:46] grasp their foreheads and they said well
[28:48] what about this what about that finally
[28:50] they got around to the question well
[28:51] doctor
[28:51] what can you do I said well I can raise
[28:54] my arm like this I can raise my arm like
[28:56] this and they the room was totally
[28:58] silent and in each case these two
[29:00] doctors in different parts of the city
[29:01] they said you don't need surgery you're
[29:04] doing better than you will do after
[29:06] surgery whoa
[29:07] does that really threw down the gauntlet
[29:08] to me and I hit written articles about I
[29:11] published I have about 1,500 patients
[29:13] with it now that I have cured about 90%
[29:16] of money I've got I just got a grant
[29:19] from the NIH to do a very interesting
[29:21] study in my opinion on to generate an
[29:25] objective scale for pain based on the
[29:29] fact that when they raise their arm the
[29:30] first time oh it hurts so much
[29:32] and when they raise arm after learning
[29:34] this maneuver doesn't hurt at all so
[29:37] here I am by the way at least 20 years
[29:39] later
[29:39] no probs now on this side I had surgery
[29:42] I didn't have enough discovered this yet
[29:44] so I'd surgery this one's good too it
[29:46] hurts a little yes well and when you
[29:51] said you learned about yourself was it
[29:53] this kind of learning discovery on the
[29:55] physical level or also on me well it is
[29:58] on the physical level too and there's no
[29:59] question about it but no I'm talking
[30:02] about on the intellectual or emotional
[30:04] or spiritual if you will level where I
[30:07] learned I think the main thing that you
[30:11] get with meditation at least that I get
[30:13] is that you feel safe enough to confront
[30:17] yourself you feel safe enough to ask
[30:20] yourself the questions you've been
[30:22] assiduously avoiding why did I do this
[30:27] why do I look down on him for doing that
[30:30] when I do it too so that that's where I
[30:35] think Yoga has has brought me further
[30:37] than any than I would have gotten
[30:39] otherwise and it was this a byproduct of
[30:43] the practice or also kind of a part of
[30:45] it for yourself
[30:46] oh it's part of it I mean I I cannot
[30:52] convince myself that I don't have much
[30:54] further to go but I have learned
[30:57] something and the things I've learned
[31:01] fill me with humility you know
[31:04] and with joy you made a very interesting
[31:08] comment a bit earlier that you you think
[31:12] you have figure out how yoga does help
[31:15] heal and I know we touched on a couple
[31:19] points related with osteoporosis
[31:21] osteoarthritis what else do you have to
[31:25] say there about how yoga does it well
[31:28] there are all kinds of different
[31:29] mechanisms you have to realize I'm a
[31:31] doctor
[31:31] certain have a kind of faith in
[31:35] basically material proofs
[31:37] ya know yoga may work in other ways too
[31:40] that I just I'm aware of or I'm not
[31:42] aware of but I can't prove anything it's
[31:44] for me it's always it's always a
[31:46] question of finding some solid reliable
[31:49] way of showing a difference between
[31:51] before and after and back pain is maybe
[31:55] a really good example there are to me
[31:59] there are seven different forms of back
[32:01] pain there's a herniated disc there
[32:03] spinal stenosis there are there are
[32:05] seven basic types of back pain and yoga
[32:08] works for all seven of them but not the
[32:10] same way what's good for a herniated
[32:13] disc is bad for stenosis and what's good
[32:16] for stenosis is bad for herniated disc
[32:18] so it's not as though there's one thing
[32:20] that's you know the way you say what
[32:21] does penicillin do kills germs yoga's
[32:26] not that way and if people are
[32:29] interested in you know learning more or
[32:32] finding a way to approach their
[32:34] herniated disc or back pain through yoga
[32:37] where would you recommend people go well
[32:40] this is a paid political announcement my
[32:43] book okay I've written about ten books
[32:46] on various subjects and about five of
[32:48] them on yoga and I just I wonder it's
[32:50] not so new anymore it's probably two
[32:52] years old called healing yoga Norton
[32:56] publishes most of my books and they and
[32:59] it's got whole chapters on all seven of
[33:02] the kinds of back pain whoa and
[33:04] sometimes combinations where you know
[33:06] they have a piriformis syndrome and
[33:09] sacral iliac joint arrangement what do
[33:11] you do then so it doesn't cover every
[33:14] such combination but some of them so I
[33:16] recommend my book I
[33:18] got another book called sciatica which
[33:20] ought to be helpful in the same way and
[33:22] for osteoarthritis we have a book I
[33:25] wrote with Ellen Saltonstall called Yoga
[33:28] for osteoporosis arthritis yoga for
[33:32] arthritis and it also sounds like you
[33:35] had this kind of developing body of
[33:38] certified teachers who are also helping
[33:41] people with instruction in this oh yeah
[33:43] we we now I go around the country and I
[33:46] teach I mean we've taught in San
[33:48] Francisco and certainly taught in North
[33:50] Carolina and other Chicago in places we
[33:53] now have teachers in 37 states beautiful
[33:57] about six countries you know sweet know
[34:01] Norway Switzerland Israel Singapore and
[34:05] Canada and maybe one other ones
[34:07] somewhere so in other countries and so
[34:11] Australia a couple in Australia already
[34:14] and if you want to be in the study you
[34:17] have to see a yoga teacher every two
[34:19] weeks and if there is there's one near
[34:21] you great but if there isn't one near
[34:23] you
[34:23] we will Skype with you mmm you know you
[34:27] really can Skype this material you watch
[34:30] them you give them pointers you estimate
[34:33] how hard they're trying I mean there
[34:35] really are two basic principles one is
[34:38] the wonderful alignment that mr. Iyengar
[34:41] understood so accurately and secondly
[34:44] trying hard and because the alignment is
[34:47] so important and can be understood and
[34:50] followed so well you can try hard
[34:52] without hurting yourself hmm no if you
[34:55] were off like this doing a yoga pose and
[34:57] you tried really hard you could hurt
[34:59] yourself but if you stay straight and in
[35:01] all the ways that it's important to do
[35:03] so you can try really hard put an awful
[35:06] lot of pressure on your bones but hurt
[35:08] nothing so before we wind up I was
[35:14] wondering if we could take one of these
[35:16] you know these questions that you you
[35:18] mentioned that you kind of found the the
[35:22] confidence to ask yourself those
[35:25] questions that we assiduously avoid
[35:27] maybe you could share a question for the
[35:30] group too
[35:31] reflect on and to be with well yeah I
[35:35] mean it's easy I can think of I my
[35:38] questions may not be the same as the
[35:39] next person's questions but one of my
[35:42] questions was why are you so eager to
[35:44] prove that you are better than the next
[35:46] person that was one before I just
[35:51] focused on proving I was better which of
[35:56] course is pretty impossible but I could
[35:57] convince myself and maybe convince
[36:00] somebody else oh and that really proves
[36:01] it doesn't and another one is what is it
[36:08] about him that you don't like and that
[36:12] one I think we all feel that sometimes
[36:14] in what I found to be the overwhelming
[36:16] answer not every other every time but
[36:19] very much more than half the time
[36:21] because it's something about myself that
[36:23] I don't like and I really don't want to
[36:27] see in somebody else I mean that's
[36:28] really offensive and then you want to
[36:34] say yourself well why don't I like that
[36:36] about me what's wrong with that and
[36:38] these are things that you Jim at least I
[36:42] generally hide these things from myself
[36:44] my selfishness my insecurity desire to
[36:49] one-up other people you know why is it
[36:53] so important to me hmm you know which it
[36:56] has been in my life you know so much I I
[36:59] consider you know when I look back at my
[37:01] life years ago I would say what are my
[37:03] real triumphs well I did better than he
[37:06] did I get better than she did you know
[37:08] it was he's always a question better
[37:10] than not good did you do any good huh
[37:14] and to come to that it's it's easy to
[37:17] say it but to actually go through the
[37:19] the analysis you have to go through to
[37:22] understand what the difference is not so
[37:24] easy well so those are some of the
[37:28] things I was able to to recognize and
[37:31] there are many more I mean I I'm sure I
[37:34] have as many more or more more than that
[37:36] that I hadn't recognized yet but coming
[37:39] to that realization gives you great
[37:40] curiosity about yourself I mean my great
[37:44] teacher
[37:44] Iyengar said the greatest adventure in a
[37:48] man's life and I assume he means a
[37:50] woman's life too is getting to know
[37:52] yourself you know we're really complex
[37:57] little cesspools and we can clear it all
[38:03] up but it's it's hard and it's a dirty
[38:08] you have to have that sort of confidence
[38:10] and high spirit to plumb the depths and
[38:15] come up clean well thank you so much for
[38:21] sharing with us tonight and sharing your
[38:23] research your spirit your insights over
[38:26] the years and pleasure okay I really
[38:30] have enjoyed it a lot so I hope we I
[38:34] hope you get together again and I guess
[38:36] are you down there will I see you in in
[38:39] beginning of June most certainly I am
[38:41] I'm here and we will see you uh up in
[38:44] the mountains again okay pleasure my
[38:49] pleasure
[38:49] thank you dr. Lauren and uh hope any of
[38:52] our viewers also on you know if you're
[38:54] interested in a certification you'd like
[38:56] to learn more please do click on that
[38:58] link and you know consider joining us
[39:00] this summer and we would love to see
[39:02] more more people out there and kind of
[39:05] spreading this wonderful healing message
[39:07] it seems a so valuable thank you good
[39:14] night good night welcome dr. Lauren
[39:17] Fishman to our our live webinar tonight
[39:20] and welcome to all our guests joining us
[39:22] from around the country I know we have
[39:24] some people from other parts of the
[39:26] world that join in too so welcome dr.
[39:29] Lauren well thank you how are you doing
[39:34] tonight I'm doing cool everything okay
[39:41] so for those of us joining us perhaps
[39:43] for the first time we do this weekly
[39:46] live webinar with a lot of really great
[39:49] teachers speakers authors many of whom
[39:53] are coming through the retreat center in
[39:54] Boone North Carolina and leading
[39:57] workshops
[39:58] dr. Lauren himself is leading a workshop
[40:00] on yogin osteoporosis this summer which
[40:04] we're very much looking forward and we
[40:07] can talk about some of these topics but
[40:09] also just insights and thoughts to help
[40:12] us thrive in the week ahead that's the
[40:15] the overview so welcome everyone and
[40:18] welcome dr. Lauren well thank you so how
[40:24] are you doing I just things are going
[40:26] over they're also doing well globby the
[40:29] weather is picking up a little you know
[40:31] the Heat's getting better which is nice
[40:34] it's been a little cold not too bad not
[40:37] too bad nothing like the Northeast I
[40:40] know it's terrible up here now it's
[40:45] spring Spring has really hit in North
[40:46] Carolina that's why I'm very glad to
[40:48] hear it
[40:49] up here it's like it's like Afghanistan
[40:52] really where the the Sun is warm but the
[40:55] air is very cool that's what it feels
[40:59] like in the high plateau where most of
[41:01] Afghanistan finds itself and you've
[41:03] traveled a lot both in your your
[41:05] teaching as well as in your studies is
[41:08] that true yes that's right yeah and I
[41:11] think you mentioned you studied in
[41:13] England and then you also study in India
[41:15] or you're teaching in India well I
[41:17] studied in England I was at Oxford I got
[41:20] an advanced degree in foundations of
[41:23] mathematics and then I went to India
[41:25] because it seemed to me that the read to
[41:29] look for the foundations of Mathematica
[41:31] nowhere does mathematics come from the
[41:34] best I could do was to think of grammar
[41:37] like a long reach for you and maybe it
[41:40] is with the idea being that no one does
[41:43] math who doesn't have language and that
[41:45] language has rules for construction of
[41:48] proper sentences and how the parts of
[41:50] speech and so on and that's just like
[41:52] mathematics hmm very good place to look
[41:56] for it and the first grammarian also the
[41:59] first yogi by the way and a physician
[42:01] was named Patanjali and so I went there
[42:04] I wasn't there very long before I
[42:06] realized that the average three-year-old
[42:09] was no better Sanskrit
[42:11] or at least the language close to Sun
[42:13] script then I would ever know little
[42:17] quest to try to become so expert in
[42:19] Sanskrit so I didn't instead I just
[42:21] devoted my time to looking for liberated
[42:25] people and what was the result of that
[42:29] quest well my my friend at the time said
[42:35] to me one day I found mr. Iyengar's book
[42:38] someone in Bombay an Englishman
[42:42] underground they gave me this book and
[42:43] said you know you got to look at this
[42:45] and I took a look at it and I realized
[42:47] it was better yoga than I'd ever seen by
[42:50] by a long way and so I resolved to do
[42:52] every pose in the book which I could do
[42:54] which wasn't that many poses at the time
[42:56] but I did the best I could
[42:58] twice a day every morning and every
[43:00] evening and then my friend looked look
[43:03] at where he was and she said hey you
[43:05] know he's only a couple of hundred miles
[43:07] away why don't I go visit him and said I
[43:10] left on a train and we went and knocked
[43:12] on his door and he I had a wait a week
[43:15] he was in England or somewhere I had to
[43:17] take a hotel couple blocks away and when
[43:20] I finally came back when he was there I
[43:22] knocked on the door he opened it you
[43:25] could tell it was he was sleeping is
[43:26] sort of a Indian Ocean siesta and he
[43:32] said what do you want I said I want to
[43:34] learn your yoga he said why do you want
[43:37] to learn my yoga I said because I want
[43:39] to heal and he challenged me again he
[43:41] said why do you want to heal looked at
[43:44] me like that and I said yes I want to
[43:46] heal he said that's my great thing come
[43:48] on in so I stayed I kept the room in the
[43:52] hotel for a year I stayed and I learned
[43:55] so much he was highly intelligent and
[44:00] and very generous with his time his
[44:03] knowledge and I want to say with his
[44:06] care and he cared for his sizeable flock
[44:10] so there were many other students around
[44:13] at that time well there were still
[44:15] people who lived in Bombay and in Pune
[44:17] where he was who would gather together
[44:19] on the weekends he would go to Bombay
[44:21] and he would teach in this church where
[44:23] he would have maybe 50 or 60
[44:25] and in those days in India men and women
[44:30] couldn't be in the same yoga class if
[44:32] they were Hindu so most of these
[44:35] patients were Jane
[44:38] or they were RC yeah and they were they
[44:43] were sort of like the the not out kiss
[44:45] by any means but not in the centre of
[44:47] society remove the you know the parties
[44:51] are Zoroastrians yeah they came from
[44:54] Iran and then one or another migration
[44:56] and these people were forward-looking
[44:59] and a little bit willing to take risks a
[45:02] little bit and his classes were three
[45:04] hours long and very intense and he was
[45:09] taught one on Saturday and one on Sunday
[45:11] then we'd go back to Bombay back to Pune
[45:13] and spend the week there your classes
[45:16] just about every day so that was that
[45:20] was just he didn't have that many
[45:21] foreign students when I was there he had
[45:24] maybe ten five or six you know buried
[45:28] there
[45:29] there were everything from Jesuit
[45:31] priests to dancers from South Africa you
[45:35] know you said I want to heal and he said
[45:39] that's my specialty
[45:41] come on in and then you know from there
[45:43] you've got on and written a book on yoga
[45:46] for osteoporosis and you know pioneered
[45:49] some of the research what was that
[45:51] transition like how did that come about
[45:53] well I was in India and I realized that
[45:57] I I realize yoga worked yoga did things
[46:00] on my curiosity and whetted my curiosity
[46:03] I don't know how does yoga work and they
[46:08] have combined with the misery you see in
[46:10] India made me resolve to be a doctor so
[46:12] I went to medical school but the other
[46:15] reason I went to medical school was to
[46:16] learn how yoga worked and I actually
[46:19] believe I have found some of the ways
[46:21] yoga works and when you theater works
[46:24] like what did you notice what did you
[46:26] observe my first experience was actually
[46:30] in Bombay with drug addicts who would
[46:32] come to me for some reason or other they
[46:34] regarded me as a doctor like
[46:37] and they would come to me and say you
[46:38] got to help me I'm addicted and I found
[46:41] giving them not many five or six yoga
[46:44] poses which they did with great
[46:46] religiosity you know then with great
[46:48] hope in their hearts because they didn't
[46:50] want to be taking these drugs I found
[46:52] that it actually brought them off of
[46:53] taking morphine and cocaine and other
[46:57] kinds of drugs so that was one thing
[47:01] then I noticed many other you know just
[47:04] incidental things for shoulder pain for
[47:07] neck pain indigestion there are a number
[47:10] of ways that yoga really does seem to do
[47:12] the job wasn't very long after I taught
[47:17] yoga in medical school Oh a couple of
[47:20] doctors and some fellow medical students
[47:22] and some nurses but then after I started
[47:25] in private practice I was an on the
[47:27] staff at Albert Einstein I actually
[47:32] began using yoga to cure people so in a
[47:37] way it was the opposite I went learning
[47:39] how yoga works I ended up using yoga
[47:41] because it works I think the thing that
[47:44] I've done that is not special anymore
[47:46] but I think I was one of the first to do
[47:49] this was to employ medical science to
[47:53] prove and to understand how yoga works
[47:56] and that's the osteoporosis I mean there
[47:59] is a very good test to determine whether
[48:02] your bone mineral density is high or low
[48:04] and you know to to numerically quantify
[48:08] it that's called the DEXA scan the dual
[48:11] x-ray absorptiometry okay what a word
[48:17] and I had the image that Yoga must work
[48:23] for to build your bones or the Yogi's
[48:26] wouldn't be getting so old so healthily
[48:30] and so I had confidence in it but many
[48:35] of my friends said don't teach yoga at
[48:38] people with osteoporosis you're gonna
[48:40] break their bones you're doing took two
[48:44] years and I I did a pilot study I
[48:47] invited people to come to my office
[48:49] after work like
[48:50] 5:30 to 6:30 once a week for two years
[48:53] and I divided these people into two
[48:55] groups one group got the yoga one group
[48:58] didn't get the yoga in both groups I got
[49:01] these DEXA scans to find out how they
[49:03] were doing when they started well then
[49:05] two years later I got an another Dex of
[49:07] skin on both groups and the ones who
[49:09] didn't do the yoga they lost a little
[49:11] bone not very much you know 0.05 you
[49:14] know not nothing much yeah once you did
[49:17] the yogurt they really gained a lot of
[49:18] bone really Wow
[49:21] now further there were no injuries
[49:23] nobody broke their bones nobody had a
[49:26] herniated disc nobody fell and injured
[49:28] themselves there were no injuries of any
[49:30] kind so I was heartened and I tell you
[49:34] the truth I got fire in my belly I got
[49:36] really interested because over 200
[49:39] million people in this world have
[49:41] osteoporosis and medicines are really
[49:44] formidable not for madhab not great
[49:47] they're terrible work that well and in
[49:51] the most popular class of these
[49:53] medicines the bisphosphonates and a new
[49:55] cement Pro Prolia is another example
[49:59] they actually produce fractures they
[50:03] prevent some fractures but they caused
[50:06] some others I mean the overall overall
[50:09] there's a net gain in bone health a
[50:11] net decrease in fractures but taking a
[50:14] medicine to avoid fractures that gives
[50:16] you fractures it doesn't sound like
[50:18] progress you know so I made a DVD with
[50:24] some friends I mean a very eminent group
[50:27] of camera people from Harvard and a
[50:29] director from Columbia who's a national
[50:32] she was at Sundance you know she's
[50:33] really good and a woman who was a second
[50:37] basically an understudy on Broadway gets
[50:40] apart but she she's a beautiful voice so
[50:44] we make 12 poses in three versions a
[50:46] baby baby version for people that have
[50:50] never done yoga or are very good at it
[50:52] an intermediate version which is a
[50:54] transition from the baby version to the
[50:56] classical pose and put it out in a DVD
[51:00] and I just I made a thousand copies I
[51:03] just gave
[51:04] the way I said I'm not gonna sell
[51:06] something that until I know it works you
[51:08] know I'm gonna do that so so I thought I
[51:10] was able to give it to people all over I
[51:12] mean I have patients in Tasmania
[51:15] you know Shanghai Serbia you know all
[51:17] over the place and all they had to do to
[51:20] be in this study was get some blood
[51:21] tests and a urine test to be sure there
[51:23] were no metabolic or nutritional or
[51:25] hormonal causes because I'm not an
[51:27] officer of yoga works for those I mean
[51:29] you can't have yoga instead of lunch so
[51:34] I did that and they had to promise me
[51:38] they would tell the truth huh want them
[51:43] flattering me and telling me they did
[51:45] the yoga when they didn't you know I
[51:47] said there's only one requirement here
[51:49] because I'm not there I'm not looking at
[51:51] them to be okay please be honest then we
[51:53] took about eight years before we had
[51:55] enough you know all all of them
[51:57] completed the at least two years of
[51:59] doing it and sent the results off to my
[52:01] statistician at Harvard so what was
[52:03] going on and the results were really
[52:05] very gratifying I mean these people
[52:08] gained more bone in their spine than
[52:11] they would have on the medicines well
[52:13] they gained more more bone in their
[52:15] femur than they would have gained on the
[52:17] medicines and the hip it's the hip was a
[52:20] little complex because turns out there
[52:22] were different ways of measuring what's
[52:24] called the total hip it's a compendium
[52:26] score it's not just one number it's some
[52:29] people take a B and C and add them up
[52:31] some people take a deed and Efrain
[52:33] addemup and there's a little variance so
[52:36] that one they clearly did better than
[52:39] they did before they did the yoga but
[52:42] you're statistically it was not
[52:43] significant for the hood for the hip
[52:45] okay but the spine and for the femur
[52:48] which are the two by far the two most
[52:50] serious kinds of fractures that people
[52:52] get with osteoporosis was really highly
[52:55] significant doesn't cost anything you
[52:58] know you just do the yoga you know way
[53:00] that even our president isn't figured
[53:02] out how to put a tax on yoga so what was
[53:07] the response like kind of before the
[53:11] study the research was published to this
[53:13] idea that yoga can help and cure
[53:16] versus after this research came out it's
[53:21] a very good question I mean before it
[53:22] came out I think many of the people that
[53:24] joined the study joined it not because
[53:27] they believed in yoga but because they
[53:29] were so upset
[53:30] and grossed out by the medicines in
[53:33] other words any port in a storm they
[53:35] really didn't want to take the medicines
[53:37] and they wanted to do something yeah we
[53:39] pinned their hopes on something that
[53:40] they weren't sure would work but that
[53:42] was better than the medicines and now
[53:45] after the study has come out the study
[53:46] and my judgment has made a pretty solid
[53:50] impact on the yoga community and not
[53:53] just the yoga community the Harvard
[53:55] health letter put it in the New York
[53:57] Times wrote an article about it but if
[54:00] he has not really transformed the
[54:04] medical community not so we're seeing
[54:08] movement in the general public in the
[54:10] yoga community but not yet in the
[54:11] medical establishment yeah so so I'm
[54:15] doing another study more or less on the
[54:17] model of draw of the drug companies
[54:20] where I do a dose-response
[54:23] well how much yoga are you doing how
[54:25] much bone are you building to see if
[54:27] these go together which will do go
[54:29] further towards establishing a causal
[54:31] chain relationship so that's what I'm
[54:35] doing now and I must tell you just I
[54:39] have to brag I can't help I saw a
[54:42] patient who just she's been doing this
[54:45] for one year and she's been a yoga
[54:48] teacher for 20 years and even so she had
[54:51] osteoporosis her yes it was her her her
[54:55] funeral was minus 2.5 on the scale which
[54:58] is just on the line of osteoporosis and
[55:01] one and her her spine was minus 1.2 not
[55:07] that bad but osteopenia and she came
[55:11] back with another deck so one year after
[55:13] starting it now her her spine went down
[55:18] an unbelievable full point oh she went
[55:23] from minus 1 point 2 to minus point 2
[55:27] well wonder I've never seen
[55:30] before and all the thousand people I've
[55:32] treated and her femur went down from two
[55:36] point five minus two point five two
[55:38] minus two so these are really impressive
[55:42] gains in one year therefore if the
[55:46] future is like the past in another year
[55:48] well she's already gone from
[55:49] osteoporosis osteopenia but in another
[55:52] year she'll basically be barely asked
[55:55] you peanut Myung will be positive it'll
[55:58] be plus two or something so so it's the
[56:04] new study what you have to do to be in
[56:06] the new study is same blogs and stuff
[56:09] but then you you have to find a yoga
[56:13] teacher who will watch you once every
[56:15] two weeks you will just observe you and
[56:19] we have an online database so people
[56:21] will put in their results every week or
[56:23] so there's five minutes to put on put
[56:26] the information up there's not a big
[56:28] deal but I've trained teachers we go
[56:31] around now and trained teachers as we're
[56:33] doing in North Carolina at the Art of
[56:36] Living we're going to train people to do
[56:38] exactly I'm about to describe to teach
[56:40] other people this yoga and it's not easy
[56:43] to learn I mean we have twenty hours
[56:45] online where you learn this sort of
[56:47] theoretical basis so you're comfortable
[56:49] with it and able to intelligently
[56:51] respond to people when they say but my
[56:54] cousin is taking this medicine and look
[56:55] what's happened to her
[56:56] and then we'll have intelligent ways of
[56:58] understanding what's really going on
[57:00] informed and logical and secondly
[57:05] they'll get a deeper understanding of
[57:07] why the yoga does what it does and
[57:10] there's a test for after the 20 hours
[57:14] online that's sort of the theoretical
[57:16] part then there are 20 hours on the
[57:18] ground 20 hours in the lab in the
[57:20] workshop which is what we're going to do
[57:22] it any oh L I call it AOL yeah you call
[57:26] it that too no yeah yeah okay
[57:28] well and there we also give a test at
[57:31] the end we ask them to teach each other
[57:33] and we just them because the the
[57:37] critical function of a teacher is first
[57:39] to inspire people to do it secondly to
[57:42] correct them so their alignment is good
[57:44] and third to progress them from the
[57:47] beginning poses so they can safely do
[57:50] the intermediate and safely go on from
[57:52] there to the classical poses and those
[57:56] are skills that I think maybe some
[57:58] people come by them naturally but they
[58:00] can be taught to and for you know people
[58:04] who are online listening and may be
[58:06] interested in this training and
[58:08] certification there will be a link to
[58:11] the training in the chat box as well as
[58:13] the comments also if you have questions
[58:17] you know feel free to put those in and
[58:19] this is a very kind of live interactive
[58:22] session we do have one question already
[58:25] what does yoga do to the disintegrating
[58:28] cartilage and how and how well first
[58:32] osteoporosis ask your opinion are not
[58:34] cartilage disintegration they're bone
[58:37] and it's not really disintegration it's
[58:40] that there are cells they're called
[58:41] osteo sites osteoblasts which make bone
[58:45] and then there are cells called
[58:48] osteoclasts that eat up the bone return
[58:51] the protein to the systemic circulation
[58:53] so there's a given a take your or cells
[58:56] laying down bone here or cells eating up
[58:58] bone and what most of the medicines do
[59:01] just to give you some perspective is
[59:03] they the laying down of bone goes on
[59:06] unaffected but they disable and reduce
[59:09] the number of the cells that eat up bone
[59:13] so now in order to understand what yoga
[59:17] does you have to understand Wolf's law
[59:20] this is a 19th century german named
[59:23] julius wolf was an anatomist and a
[59:26] surgeon and he disguise formulated that
[59:30] the the lines of force put upon a bone
[59:36] determine the laying down of bone he
[59:40] said it like this the architectonic of
[59:41] bone is determined by the lines of force
[59:44] to which that bone is subjective and i
[59:47] mean it's an interesting story
[59:49] it wasn't he it was another man in in
[59:52] colon and cologne in northern germany
[59:54] with making a crane
[59:56] they're an engineer he wandered into a
[59:58] Natural History Museum and he saw the
[1:00:01] bones of a vultures wing and he grasped
[1:00:05] us for it and he said mine got the the
[1:00:08] bones of the vultures wing or exactly
[1:00:12] what he was doing with the head of the
[1:00:13] crane no you know isn't God wonderful
[1:00:16] isn't what how miraculous and he
[1:00:18] published a little paper and that's when
[1:00:19] Julius Wolfe figured picked it up and he
[1:00:21] said I see this all the time and that's
[1:00:24] when you formulated Wolf's law and
[1:00:26] published it now what is will slalom
[1:00:29] most law states that if you put pressure
[1:00:31] on a bone it's going to build up more
[1:00:34] bone exactly where you put the pressure
[1:00:35] so it takes the head of the femur for a
[1:00:38] moment there when you're born your femur
[1:00:41] is dead straight little thick the little
[1:00:44] arrow but by the time you're five years
[1:00:47] old it's bent like this because every
[1:00:48] time you take a step you cantilever off
[1:00:51] of that hip and the pressure is all in
[1:00:54] here so it builds up bone here and the
[1:00:56] bone over here gets no use at all so
[1:00:58] little by little it bends like that now
[1:01:01] that's not genetic because little
[1:01:03] children who unfortunately cannot ever
[1:01:06] walk you know children with spina bifida
[1:01:08] and cerebral palsy and stuff their bones
[1:01:11] stay straight as an arrow even when
[1:01:13] they're five or ten or 20 so with what's
[1:01:17] genetic is the propensity the ability to
[1:01:20] respond to the pressure that's built
[1:01:22] into all of us and let me tell you yoga
[1:01:26] puts more pressure on the bones than
[1:01:28] gravity huh that's I mean you would you
[1:01:31] like me to prove to you that yoga that
[1:01:33] your muscles are stronger than gravity
[1:01:35] I'm sure you would so here I go you
[1:01:37] ready yes steady yes
[1:01:40] here I go move on this small but
[1:01:51] interesting planet you know if you
[1:01:55] couldn't move the muscles be doing so
[1:01:59] yoga very often for example in soup to
[1:02:02] pardon gusta sauna and in many poses is
[1:02:06] opposing one group of muscles with
[1:02:08] another
[1:02:09] so not only do you get many times the
[1:02:11] force of gravity you get many times the
[1:02:13] force of gravity multiplied times two
[1:02:15] because there are those pulling this way
[1:02:17] and those pulling this way and the bone
[1:02:19] is in the middle and that is my best
[1:02:22] explanation for how yoga does it now if
[1:02:26] you really are interested in cartilage
[1:02:28] I believe Yoga does do fabulous things
[1:02:30] for cartilage too
[1:02:32] I don't know if you want me to explain
[1:02:34] this or not I I certainly am happy to do
[1:02:37] it
[1:02:37] but it might be off the point I could
[1:02:41] say a little bit so in in off since on
[1:02:47] osteoarthritis don't we lose cartilage
[1:02:49] and how did you'll get up with that
[1:02:51] that's the follow-up on osteoarthritis
[1:02:54] of course that's not osteoporosis ok
[1:02:56] Rytas is the joint
[1:02:59] let's join to this bone the joint of
[1:03:01] this phone osteoporosis is the middle
[1:03:04] yeah so that they're different the apply
[1:03:06] to different places but Yoga does help
[1:03:09] with osteoarthritis too and it does it
[1:03:12] in a variety of ways one ways I wish I
[1:03:15] could give you a picture of a good old
[1:03:17] joint um I just I'm gonna stand up maybe
[1:03:20] I can do that here the knee take the
[1:03:23] knee yes big bone here a little bone
[1:03:26] right there and then a large bone going
[1:03:28] all the way down yeah inside this joint
[1:03:31] is fluid and that fluid is critical to
[1:03:35] the joints proper functioning mmm
[1:03:37] because the the cartilage that line is
[1:03:41] that joint needs oxygen glucose protein
[1:03:46] hormones and it also needs to get rid of
[1:03:49] the products of metabolism lactic acid
[1:03:52] and so on which are quite toxic so there
[1:03:55] are no blood vessels in these joints it
[1:03:58] would be terrible to have blood vessels
[1:03:59] in your knee cuz every time you took a
[1:04:01] step and they wouldn't last so the knee
[1:04:06] as a joint as a as a capsule that holds
[1:04:08] all the fluid in there and the walls of
[1:04:11] that capsule are filled with little
[1:04:13] blood vessels called synovium and they
[1:04:17] secrete the synovial fluid which floats
[1:04:20] around in there
[1:04:20] now what did yoga do
[1:04:23] Yoga makes sure through its eccentric
[1:04:25] and extreme motions make sure that that
[1:04:28] that fluid gets circulated to the very
[1:04:30] edges to the very tips and corners of
[1:04:32] the joint and it's those tips and
[1:04:34] corners that usually initiate
[1:04:36] osteoarthritis huh first secondly Yoga
[1:04:41] this is a little more advanced than you
[1:04:43] wanted to know you don't want to know
[1:04:44] what this is I'm gonna tell you anyway
[1:04:46] Yoga this stimulates the release of a
[1:04:51] chemical from our bone from our muscles
[1:04:53] called P G c1 alpha it's a really catchy
[1:04:58] name I know P G c1 alpha P G C 1 alpha
[1:05:02] happens to be first a very potent
[1:05:05] anti-inflammatory and it does reduce the
[1:05:08] incidence of all kinds of cancers
[1:05:09] gastrointestinal cancers genital cancers
[1:05:12] you know uterus breast prostate and and
[1:05:16] melanoma it really does reduce the
[1:05:18] incidence of those but also it's the
[1:05:21] strongest known stimulant for
[1:05:24] mitochondria mitochondria are those
[1:05:27] little tiny vesicles inside every cell
[1:05:30] every every animal cell I think there
[1:05:33] are one or two crazy exceptions and
[1:05:35] they're the power stations there would
[1:05:38] translate your food into energy you know
[1:05:42] that's where the Krebs cycle goes on
[1:05:44] it's where ATP is generated you know
[1:05:47] it's where the cell gets its its energy
[1:05:51] and as I say yoga stimulates release of
[1:05:56] a chemical which stimulates the
[1:05:58] mitochondria these strongest Emma's in
[1:06:02] increasing the number of mitochondria
[1:06:04] and their activity and when it comes to
[1:06:08] joints and cartilage well the more and
[1:06:12] the more mitochondria you have the
[1:06:13] better they those cells are the stronger
[1:06:15] they are the more resistant to disease
[1:06:18] infection and damage well I mean there
[1:06:24] are other ways to but I think those are
[1:06:25] two big ones sure and to step back for a
[1:06:29] second what has been for you the most
[1:06:31] fascinating discovery in this whole
[1:06:33] journey
[1:06:37] it's not very much for publication but
[1:06:39] the very the most interesting thing for
[1:06:42] me has been me I've learnt so much about
[1:06:45] myself well I don't think I can
[1:06:48] I mean learning about osteoporosis has
[1:06:51] been wonderful we have some other cures
[1:06:52] for us for osteoarthritis for scoliosis
[1:06:56] that was pretty interesting we found a
[1:06:58] way to actually reverse scoliosis and we
[1:07:01] found a way to reduce the pain and
[1:07:03] increase the range of motion after
[1:07:05] rotator cuff I mean this arm of mine
[1:07:08] over here I had I won't tell you the
[1:07:11] whole story but I had a terrible rotator
[1:07:13] cuff and I could not raise my arm above
[1:07:15] here to save my soul but I stood on my
[1:07:19] head one day I made appointments with
[1:07:21] the two greatest surgeons in New York
[1:07:23] for the shoulder and wait a month to see
[1:07:26] him instead of being a doctor myself and
[1:07:28] one day I just missed yoga so much I
[1:07:29] stood on my head
[1:07:30] the Iyengar way where you pull your
[1:07:32] shoulders away from your ears
[1:07:33] like my wife came downstairs she's in
[1:07:36] Lauren and I got up and ready to be
[1:07:40] sheepish but I realized I could raise my
[1:07:42] arm well I kept the two appointments
[1:07:46] with the doctors and I they ask me
[1:07:49] question after where they looked at my
[1:07:51] MRI which is a massive tear I mean it's
[1:07:53] the worst kind of tear you can get you
[1:07:55] know the two parts of the muscle are
[1:07:56] rent asunder about four centimeters and
[1:07:59] then then grasp their foreheads and they
[1:08:01] said well what about this what about
[1:08:03] that finally they got around to the
[1:08:04] question well dr. Fishman what can you
[1:08:06] do I said well I can raise my arm like
[1:08:08] this I can raise my arm like this and
[1:08:10] they the room was totally silent and in
[1:08:12] each case these two doctors in different
[1:08:14] parts of the city they said you don't
[1:08:16] need surgery you're doing better than
[1:08:18] you will do after surgery whoa that
[1:08:21] really threw down the gauntlet to me and
[1:08:23] I hit written articles about I published
[1:08:25] I have about 1,500 patients with it now
[1:08:28] that I've cured about 90% of money I've
[1:08:31] got I just got a grant from the NIH to
[1:08:34] do a very interesting study in my
[1:08:36] opinion on to generate an objective
[1:08:39] scale for pain based on the fact that
[1:08:43] when they raise their arm the first time
[1:08:45] oh it hurts so much and when they raise
[1:08:47] arm after learning this maneuver the
[1:08:50] so here I am by the way at least 20
[1:08:52] years later
[1:08:53] no probs now on this side I had surgery
[1:08:56] I didn't I had enough discovered this
[1:08:57] yet
[1:08:58] so I'd surgery this one's good too it
[1:09:00] hurts a little yes well it's good
[1:09:03] Wow and when you said you learned about
[1:09:06] yourself was it this kind of learning
[1:09:08] discovery on the physical level or also
[1:09:10] on me well it is on the physical level
[1:09:12] too and there's no question about it but
[1:09:14] no I'm talking about on the intellectual
[1:09:17] or emotional or spiritual if you will
[1:09:20] level where I learned I think the main
[1:09:24] thing that you get with meditation at
[1:09:26] least that I guess is that you feel safe
[1:09:29] enough to confront yourself you feel
[1:09:33] safe enough to ask yourself the
[1:09:35] questions you've been assiduously
[1:09:37] avoided why did I do this why do I look
[1:09:42] down on him for doing that when I do it
[1:09:44] too so that that's where I think Yoga
[1:09:50] has has brought me further than any then
[1:09:53] I would have gotten otherwise and it was
[1:09:56] this a byproduct of the practice or also
[1:09:58] kind of a part of it for yourself
[1:10:00] oh it's part of it I mean I I cannot
[1:10:06] convince myself that I don't have much
[1:10:08] further to go but I have learned
[1:10:11] something and the things I've learned
[1:10:14] fill me with humility you know and and
[1:10:18] with joy you made a very interesting
[1:10:22] comment a bit earlier that you you think
[1:10:26] you have forgot how yoga does help heal
[1:10:30] and I know we touched on a couple of
[1:10:33] points related with osteoporosis
[1:10:35] osteoarthritis what else do you have to
[1:10:39] say there about how yoga does it well
[1:10:42] there are all kinds of different
[1:10:43] mechanisms you have to realize I'm a
[1:10:44] doctor certain have a kind of faith in
[1:10:48] basically material proofs
[1:10:51] ya know yoga may work in other ways too
[1:10:54] that I just I'm aware of or I'm not
[1:10:55] aware of but I can't prove anything
[1:10:57] it's for me it's always it's always a
[1:11:00] question of finding some solid rely
[1:11:03] a way of showing a difference between
[1:11:05] before and after and back pain is maybe
[1:11:09] a really good example there are to me
[1:11:12] there are seven different forms of back
[1:11:14] pain there's a herniated disc there's
[1:11:17] spinal stenosis there are there are
[1:11:19] seven basic types of back pain and yoga
[1:11:22] works for all seven of them but not the
[1:11:24] same way what's good for a herniated
[1:11:27] disc is bad for stenosis and what's good
[1:11:30] for stenosis is bad for a herniated disc
[1:11:32] so it's not as though there's one thing
[1:11:34] this you know the way you say what does
[1:11:35] penicillin do kills germs yoga's not
[1:11:40] that way and if people are interested in
[1:11:44] you know learning more or finding a way
[1:11:47] to approach their herniated disc or back
[1:11:50] pain through yoga where would you
[1:11:52] recommend people go well this is a paid
[1:11:55] political announcement my book okay I've
[1:11:58] written about ten books on various
[1:12:00] subjects and about five of them on yoga
[1:12:02] and I just it's not so new anymore it's
[1:12:05] probably two years old called healing
[1:12:07] Yoga Norton publishes most of my books
[1:12:11] and they and it's got whole chapters on
[1:12:14] all seven of the kinds of back pain flow
[1:12:18] and sometimes combinations where you
[1:12:20] know they have a piriformis syndrome and
[1:12:23] sacral iliac joint arrangement what do
[1:12:25] you do then so it doesn't cover every
[1:12:27] such combination but some of them so I
[1:12:30] recommend my book I got another book
[1:12:32] called sciatica which ought to be
[1:12:34] helpful in the same way and for
[1:12:37] osteoarthritis we have a book I wrote
[1:12:39] with Ellen Saltonstall called Yoga for
[1:12:42] osteoporosis arthritis Yoga for
[1:12:45] arthritis and it also sounds like you
[1:12:49] had this kind of developing body of
[1:12:52] certified teachers who are also helping
[1:12:54] people with instruction in this oh yeah
[1:12:57] we we now I go around the country and I
[1:13:00] teach I mean we've taught in San
[1:13:01] Francisco and certainly taught in North
[1:13:04] Carolina and other Chicago in places we
[1:13:07] now have teachers in 37 states beautiful
[1:13:11] about six countries you know sweet know
[1:13:14] Norway Switzerland is
[1:13:18] Singapore and Canada and maybe one other
[1:13:21] one somewhere so in other countries and
[1:13:25] oh oh Australia a couple in Australia
[1:13:27] already and if you want to be in the
[1:13:30] study you have to see a yoga teacher
[1:13:32] every two weeks and if there is there's
[1:13:34] one near you
[1:13:35] great but if there isn't one near you we
[1:13:37] will Skype with you you know you really
[1:13:41] can Skype this material you watch them
[1:13:44] you give them pointers you estimate how
[1:13:47] hard they're trying I mean there really
[1:13:49] are two basic principles one is the
[1:13:52] wonderful alignment that mr. Iyengar
[1:13:54] understood so accurately and secondly
[1:13:58] trying hard and because the alignment is
[1:14:01] so important and can be understood and
[1:14:04] followed so well you can try hard
[1:14:06] without hurting yourself hmm no if you
[1:14:09] were off like this doing a yoga pose and
[1:14:11] you tried really hard you could hurt
[1:14:12] yourself but if you stay straight and in
[1:14:15] all the ways that it's important to do
[1:14:17] so you can try really hard put an awful
[1:14:20] lot of pressure on your bones but hurt
[1:14:22] nothing so before we wind up I was
[1:14:28] wondering if we could take one of these
[1:14:30] you know these questions that you you
[1:14:32] mentioned that you kind of found the the
[1:14:36] confidence to ask yourself those
[1:14:38] questions that we assiduously avoid
[1:14:41] maybe you could share a question for the
[1:14:44] group to reflect on and to be with well
[1:14:48] yeah I mean it's easy I can think of I
[1:14:51] my questions may not be the same as the
[1:14:53] next person's questions but one of my
[1:14:55] questions was why are you so eager to
[1:14:58] prove that you are better than the next
[1:15:00] person that was one before I just
[1:15:05] focused on proving I was better which of
[1:15:09] course is pretty impossible but I could
[1:15:11] convince myself and maybe convince
[1:15:14] somebody else oh and that really proves
[1:15:15] it doesn't and another one is what is it
[1:15:21] about him that you don't like and that
[1:15:26] one I think we all feel that sometimes
[1:15:28] then what I found to be the overwhelming
[1:15:30] answer not every River every time but
[1:15:33] very much more than half the time
[1:15:35] because it's something about myself that
[1:15:37] I don't like and I really don't want to
[1:15:41] see in somebody else I mean that's
[1:15:42] really offensive and then you want to
[1:15:47] say yourself well why don't I like that
[1:15:49] about me what's wrong with that and
[1:15:52] these are things that you Jim at least I
[1:15:56] generally hide these things from myself
[1:15:58] my selfishness my insecurity desire to
[1:16:03] one-up other people you know why is it
[1:16:07] so important to me hmm
[1:16:09] you know which it has been in my life
[1:16:11] you know so much I I consider you know
[1:16:14] when I look back at my life years ago I
[1:16:16] would say what are my real triumphs well
[1:16:18] I did better than he did I get better
[1:16:20] than she did you know it was he's always
[1:16:23] a question is better than not good did
[1:16:26] you do any good well and to come to that
[1:16:30] it's it's easy to say it but to actually
[1:16:32] go through the the analysis you have to
[1:16:35] go through to understand what the
[1:16:37] difference is not so easy well so those
[1:16:42] are some of the things I was able to to
[1:16:44] recognize and there are many more I mean
[1:16:47] I I'm sure I have as many more or more
[1:16:49] more than that that I hadn't recognized
[1:16:51] yet but coming to that realization gives
[1:16:54] you great curiosity about yourself hmm
[1:16:57] I mean my great teacher mr. Iyengar you
[1:16:59] said the greatest adventure in a man's
[1:17:02] life and I assume he means a woman's
[1:17:04] life too is getting to know yourself you
[1:17:10] know we're really complex little
[1:17:12] cesspools and we can clear it all up but
[1:17:17] it's it's hard and it's a dirty you have
[1:17:22] to have that sort of confidence and high
[1:17:25] spirit to plumb the depths and come up
[1:17:29] clean well thank you so much for sharing
[1:17:35] with us tonight and sharing a research
[1:17:38] your spirit your insights over the years
[1:17:40] and pleasure
[1:17:43] okay I really have enjoyed it a lot so I
[1:17:46] hope we I hope you get together again
[1:17:49] and I guess are you down there will I
[1:17:51] see you in in May beginning of June most
[1:17:54] certainly I am I'm here and we will see
[1:17:57] you uh up in the mountains again okay
[1:18:02] pleasure my pleasure thank you dr.
[1:18:04] Lauren and uh hope any of our viewers
[1:18:06] also on you know if you're interested in
[1:18:08] a certification you'd like to learn more
[1:18:10] please do click on that link and you
[1:18:13] know consider joining us this summer and
[1:18:15] we would love to see more more people
[1:18:17] out there and kind of spreading this
[1:18:19] wonderful healing message it seems a so
[1:18:22] valuable thank you good night good night
[1:18:30] welcome dr. Lauren Fishman's who are our
[1:18:33] live webinar tonight and welcome to all
[1:18:35] our guests joining us from around the
[1:18:38] country I know we have some people from
[1:18:40] other parts of the world that join in
[1:18:42] too so welcome dr. Lauren well thank you
[1:18:47] how are you doing tonight I am doing
[1:18:50] cool everything okay
[1:18:55] so for those of us joining us perhaps
[1:18:57] for the first time we do this weekly
[1:19:00] live webinar with a lot of really great
[1:19:03] teachers speakers authors many of whom
[1:19:07] are coming through the retreat center in
[1:19:09] Boone North Carolina and leading
[1:19:11] workshops dr. Lauren himself is leading
[1:19:14] a workshop on yogin osteoporosis this
[1:19:17] summer which we're very much looking
[1:19:20] forward and we can talk about some of
[1:19:23] these topics but also just insights and
[1:19:26] thoughts to help us thrive in the week
[1:19:28] ahead that's the the overview so welcome
[1:19:31] everyone and welcome dr. Lauren well
[1:19:33] thank you so how are you doing I just
[1:19:39] going over they're also doing well glad
[1:19:42] the the weather is picking up a little
[1:19:45] you know Nick the Heat's getting better
[1:19:47] which is nice it's been a little cold
[1:19:50] not too bad not too bad nothing like the
[1:19:54] Northeast I've heard
[1:19:55] it's terrible up here now it's spring
[1:19:59] spring is really hit in North Carolina
[1:20:01] that's one very glad to hear it up here
[1:20:04] it's like it's like Afghanistan really
[1:20:07] where the Sun is warm but the air is
[1:20:10] very cool that's what it feels like in
[1:20:13] the high plateau where most of
[1:20:15] Afghanistan finds itself and you've
[1:20:17] traveled a lot both in your your
[1:20:20] teaching as well as in your studies is
[1:20:22] that true yes that's right yeah and I
[1:20:25] think you mentioned you studied in
[1:20:27] England and then you also study in India
[1:20:30] or you're teaching in India well I
[1:20:32] studied in England I was at Oxford I got
[1:20:34] an advanced degree in foundations of
[1:20:37] mathematics and then I went to India
[1:20:39] because it seemed to me that the read to
[1:20:43] look for the foundations of mathematics
[1:20:45] you know where does mathematics come
[1:20:47] from the best I could do was to think of
[1:20:50] grammar like a long reach for you and
[1:20:54] maybe it is with the idea being that no
[1:20:56] one does Matthew doesn't have language
[1:20:59] and that language has rules for
[1:21:01] construction of proper sentences and how
[1:21:04] the parts of speech and so on and that's
[1:21:06] just like mathematics hmm very good
[1:21:10] place to look for it and the first
[1:21:12] grammarian also the first yogi by the
[1:21:14] way and a physician was named Patanjali
[1:21:17] and so I went there I wasn't there very
[1:21:20] long before I realized that the average
[1:21:22] three-year-old was a new better Sanskrit
[1:21:25] or at least the language close to
[1:21:27] Sanskrit then then I would ever know
[1:21:30] little quest to try to become so expert
[1:21:33] in Sanskrit so I didn't instead I just
[1:21:36] devoted my time to looking for liberated
[1:21:39] people well plenty of those and what was
[1:21:42] the result of that quest well my my
[1:21:47] friend at the time said to me one day I
[1:21:50] fell in mr. Iyengar's book someone in
[1:21:54] Bombay an Englishman in the Bombay gave
[1:21:57] me this book and said you know you got
[1:21:59] to look at this and I took a look at it
[1:22:01] and I realized it was better yoga than
[1:22:03] I'd ever seen I by a long way and so I
[1:22:06] resolved to do every pose in the book
[1:22:08] which I could do which was
[1:22:09] that many poses at the time but I did
[1:22:11] the best I could
[1:22:12] twice a day every morning and every
[1:22:14] evening and then my friend looked at
[1:22:17] look at where he was and she said hey
[1:22:20] you know he's only a couple of hundred
[1:22:21] miles away why don't I go visit him and
[1:22:23] so he left on a train and we went and
[1:22:26] knocked on his door and he I had a wait
[1:22:29] a week he was in England or somewhere I
[1:22:31] had a tickle hotel a couple blocks away
[1:22:34] and when I finally came back when he was
[1:22:36] there I knocked on the door he opened it
[1:22:38] you could tell it was he was sleeping
[1:22:40] it's sort of a Indian Ocean siesta and
[1:22:46] he said what do you want I said I want
[1:22:49] to learn your yoga he said why do you
[1:22:51] want to learn my yoga I said because I
[1:22:53] want to heal and you challenged me again
[1:22:55] he said why'd you want to heal looked at
[1:22:58] me like that and I said yes I want to
[1:23:00] heal he said that's my great thing come
[1:23:02] on in so I stayed I kept the room in the
[1:23:06] hotel for a year
[1:23:08] stayed and I learned so many much he was
[1:23:11] highly intelligent and and very generous
[1:23:16] with his time his knowledge and I want
[1:23:19] to say with his care and he cared for
[1:23:21] his sizeable flock so there were many
[1:23:26] other students around at that time well
[1:23:28] there were still people who lived in
[1:23:30] Bombay and in Pune where he was who
[1:23:32] would gather together on the weekends he
[1:23:35] would go to Bombay and he would teach in
[1:23:36] this church or he would have maybe 50 or
[1:23:39] 60 people and in those days in India men
[1:23:44] and women couldn't be in the same yoga
[1:23:46] class if they were Hindu so most
[1:23:49] anticipation most of his or Jane or they
[1:23:53] were RC yeah they were they were sort of
[1:23:57] like the the not outcasts by any means
[1:24:00] but not in the centre of society a
[1:24:02] little bit removed the you know the the
[1:24:05] parties are Zoroastrians yeah they came
[1:24:08] from Iran and then one or another
[1:24:10] migration and these people were
[1:24:13] forward-looking and a little bit willing
[1:24:15] to take risks a little bit and his
[1:24:18] classes were three hours long and very
[1:24:20] intense
[1:24:22] and he would talk 1:00 on Saturday and
[1:24:24] 1:00 on Sunday then we'd go back to
[1:24:26] Bombay back to Pune and spend the week
[1:24:28] there had classes just about every day
[1:24:32] so that was that was his he didn't have
[1:24:35] that many foreign students when I was
[1:24:38] there he had maybe 10 five or six you
[1:24:41] know it buried
[1:24:43] there were everything from Jesuit
[1:24:45] priests to dancers from South Africa you
[1:24:49] know he said I want to heal and he said
[1:24:54] that's my specialty come on in and then
[1:24:57] you know from there you've gone on and
[1:24:59] written a book on yoga for osteoporosis
[1:25:01] and you know pioneered some of the
[1:25:03] research what was that transition like
[1:25:06] how did that come about well I was in
[1:25:10] India and I realized that I I realize
[1:25:12] yoga worked yoga did things on my
[1:25:16] curiosity and whetted my curiosity I
[1:25:18] know how does yoga work and they have
[1:25:22] combined with the misery you see in
[1:25:24] India made me resolve to be a doctor so
[1:25:27] I went to medical school but the other
[1:25:29] reason I went to medical school was to
[1:25:31] learn how yoga worked and I actually
[1:25:33] believe I have found some of the ways
[1:25:36] yoga works and when you see their works
[1:25:38] like what did you notice what did you
[1:25:40] observe my first experience was actually
[1:25:44] in Bombay with drug addicts who would
[1:25:47] come to me for some reason or other they
[1:25:48] regarded me as a doctor like person and
[1:25:51] they would come to me and say you got to
[1:25:53] help me I'm addicted and I found giving
[1:25:56] them not many five or six yoga poses
[1:25:58] which they did with great religiosity
[1:26:01] you know then with great hope in their
[1:26:03] hearts because they didn't want to be
[1:26:04] taking these drugs I found that it
[1:26:06] actually brought them off of taking
[1:26:09] morphine and cocaine and other kinds of
[1:26:12] drugs so that was one thing then I
[1:26:16] noticed many other you know just
[1:26:19] incidental things for shoulder pain for
[1:26:21] neck pain indigestion there are a number
[1:26:25] of ways that yoga really does seem to do
[1:26:27] the job wasn't very long after I taught
[1:26:31] yoga in medical school Oh a couple of
[1:26:34] doctors and some fellow
[1:26:35] local students and some nurses but then
[1:26:38] after I started in private practice I
[1:26:40] was an on the staff at Albert Einstein I
[1:26:45] I actually began using yoga to cure
[1:26:49] people so in a way it was the opposite I
[1:26:52] went learning how yoga works I ended up
[1:26:54] using yoga because it works I think the
[1:26:58] thing that I've done that is not special
[1:27:00] anymore but I think I was one of the
[1:27:02] first to do this was to employ medical
[1:27:06] science to prove and to understand how
[1:27:10] yoga works and that's the osteoporosis I
[1:27:13] mean there is a very good test to
[1:27:16] determine whether your bone mineral
[1:27:17] density is high or low and you know to
[1:27:20] to numerically quantify it that's called
[1:27:23] the DEXA scan the dual x-ray
[1:27:27] absorptiometry okay what a word and I
[1:27:33] had the image that yoga must work for to
[1:27:38] build your bones or the Yogi's wouldn't
[1:27:40] be getting so old so healthily and so I
[1:27:46] had confidence in it but many of my
[1:27:50] friends said don't teach yoga to people
[1:27:53] with osteoporosis you're gonna break
[1:27:54] their bones you're doing two years and I
[1:27:59] I did a pilot study I invited people to
[1:28:02] come to my office after work like 5:30
[1:28:05] to 6:30 once a week for two years and I
[1:28:08] divided these people into two groups one
[1:28:10] group at the yoga one group didn't get
[1:28:13] the yoga in both groups I got these DEXA
[1:28:16] scans to find out how they were doing
[1:28:17] when they started well then two years
[1:28:19] later I got an another Dex of skin on
[1:28:21] both groups and the ones who didn't do
[1:28:24] the yoga they lost a little bone not
[1:28:26] very much you know 0.05 you know not
[1:28:29] nothing much yeah once you did the
[1:28:31] yogurt they really gained a lot of bone
[1:28:33] really Wow now further there were no
[1:28:37] injuries nobody broke their bones nobody
[1:28:40] had a herniated disk nobody fell and
[1:28:42] injured themselves there were no
[1:28:44] injuries of any kind so I would heart
[1:28:47] and I tell you the truth I got fire in
[1:28:50] my belly I got really interested because
[1:28:52] over 200 million people in this world
[1:28:54] have osteoporosis and medicines are
[1:28:57] really formidable not for Madhab not
[1:29:01] great
[1:29:01] they're terrible work that well and in
[1:29:05] the most popular class of these
[1:29:07] medicines the bisphosphonates
[1:29:09] and a new cement Pro Prolia is another
[1:29:13] example they actually produce fractures
[1:29:16] they heal a they prevent some fractures
[1:29:19] but they caused some others I mean the
[1:29:22] overall overall there's a net gain in
[1:29:24] bone health a net decrease in fractures
[1:29:27] but taking a medicine to avoid fractures
[1:29:30] that gives you fractures it doesn't
[1:29:32] sound like progress you know so I made a
[1:29:38] DVD with some friends I mean a very
[1:29:40] eminent group of camera people from
[1:29:42] Harvard and a director from Columbia
[1:29:45] who's a national she was at Sundance you
[1:29:47] know she's really good and a woman who
[1:29:50] was a second basically an understudy on
[1:29:53] Broadway gets a part but she she's a
[1:29:56] beautiful voice so we make 12 poses in
[1:30:00] three versions a baby baby version for
[1:30:03] people that have never done yoga or are
[1:30:06] very good at it an intermediate version
[1:30:08] which is a transition from the baby
[1:30:10] version to the classical pose and put it
[1:30:14] out in a DVD and I just I made a
[1:30:16] thousand copies I just gave them away I
[1:30:19] said I'm not gonna sell something that
[1:30:21] until I know it works you know I'm going
[1:30:23] to do that so so I thought I was able to
[1:30:26] give it to people all over I mean I have
[1:30:27] patients in Tasmania
[1:30:29] you know Shanghai Serbia you know all
[1:30:32] over the place and all they had to do to
[1:30:34] be in this study was get some blood
[1:30:35] tests and a urine test to be sure there
[1:30:38] were no metabolic or nutritional or
[1:30:40] hormonal causes because I'm not an
[1:30:41] officer of yoga works for those I mean
[1:30:44] you can't have yoga instead of lunch so
[1:30:48] I did that and they had to promise me
[1:30:52] and would tell the truth huh want them
[1:30:57] flattering me and telling me they did
[1:30:59] the yoga when they
[1:31:00] you know I said there's only one
[1:31:02] requirement here because I'm not there
[1:31:04] I'm not looking at them to be okay
[1:31:06] please be honest then we took about
[1:31:08] eight years before we had enough you
[1:31:10] know all all of them completed the at
[1:31:12] least two years of doing it and sent the
[1:31:15] results off to my statistician Harvard
[1:31:17] so it was going on and the results were
[1:31:19] really very gratifying I mean these
[1:31:22] people gained more bone in their spine
[1:31:24] than they would have on the medicines
[1:31:26] well they gained more more bone in their
[1:31:29] femur than they would have gained on the
[1:31:31] medicines and the hip it's the hip was a
[1:31:34] little complex because turns out there
[1:31:36] were different ways of measuring what's
[1:31:38] called the total hip it's a compendium
[1:31:40] score it's not just one number it's some
[1:31:43] people take a B and C and add them up
[1:31:45] some people take a deed or an animal and
[1:31:48] there's a little variance so that one
[1:31:51] they clearly did better than they did
[1:31:54] before they did the yoga but you're
[1:31:56] statistically it was not significant for
[1:31:58] the hood for the hip okay but the spine
[1:32:01] and for the femur which other two by far
[1:32:03] the two most serious kinds of fractures
[1:32:06] that people get with osteoporosis was
[1:32:08] really highly significant doesn't cost
[1:32:12] anything you know you just do the yoga
[1:32:13] yeah no way that even our president
[1:32:15] isn't figured out how to put a tax on
[1:32:17] yoga so what was the response like kind
[1:32:23] of before the study the research was
[1:32:26] published to this idea that yoga can
[1:32:29] help and cure versus after this research
[1:32:32] came out it's a very good question I
[1:32:36] mean before it came out I think many of
[1:32:38] the people that joined the study joined
[1:32:40] it not because they believed in yoga but
[1:32:43] because they were so upset and grossed
[1:32:46] out by the medicines in other words any
[1:32:48] port in a storm they really didn't want
[1:32:50] to take the medicines and they wanted to
[1:32:52] do something yeah we pinned their hopes
[1:32:54] on something that they weren't sure
[1:32:55] would work but that was better than the
[1:32:57] medicines and now after the study has
[1:33:00] come out the study and my judgment has
[1:33:03] made a pretty solid impact on the yoga
[1:33:06] community and not just the yoga
[1:33:08] community the Harvard health letter put
[1:33:10] it in the New York Times wrote an
[1:33:12] article
[1:33:14] but if he has not really transformed the
[1:33:19] medical community not so we're seeing
[1:33:22] movement in the general public in the
[1:33:24] yoga community but not yet in the
[1:33:25] medical establishment yeah so so I'm
[1:33:30] doing another study more or less on the
[1:33:32] model of draw of the drug companies
[1:33:34] where I do a dose response
[1:33:37] well how much yoga are you doing how
[1:33:39] much bone are you building to see if
[1:33:41] these go together which will do go
[1:33:43] further towards establishing a causal
[1:33:46] chain relationship so that's what I'm
[1:33:50] doing now and I must tell you just I
[1:33:53] have to brag I can't help I saw a
[1:33:56] patient who just she's been doing this
[1:33:59] for one year yes and she's been a yoga
[1:34:03] teacher for 20 years and even so she had
[1:34:05] osteoporosis her yes it was her her her
[1:34:10] funeral was minus 2.5 on the scale which
[1:34:12] is just on the line of osteoporosis and
[1:34:15] 1 and her her spine was minus 1.2 not
[1:34:21] that bad but osteopenia and she came
[1:34:25] back with another DEXA one year after
[1:34:28] starting it now her her spine went down
[1:34:32] an unbelievable full point oh she went
[1:34:38] from minus 1 point 2 to minus point two
[1:34:41] well I wonder I've never seen that
[1:34:44] before and all the thousand people I've
[1:34:46] treated and her femur went down from 2
[1:34:50] point 5 minus 2 point 5 to minus 2 so
[1:34:54] these are really impressive gains in 1
[1:34:57] year therefore if the future is like the
[1:35:01] past in another year well she's already
[1:35:03] gone from osteoporosis osteopenia but in
[1:35:06] another year she'll basically be barely
[1:35:09] asked you peanut
[1:35:10] buying will be positive it will be plus
[1:35:13] 2.8 or something so so it's the new
[1:35:18] study what you have to do to be in the
[1:35:20] new study is same blogs and stuff but
[1:35:24] then you you have to
[1:35:26] find a yoga teacher who will watch you
[1:35:29] once every two weeks
[1:35:31] you will just observe you and we have an
[1:35:33] online database so people will put in
[1:35:36] their results every week or so so five
[1:35:39] minutes to put on put the information
[1:35:41] there's not a big deal but I've trained
[1:35:44] teachers we go around now and train
[1:35:46] teachers as we're doing in North
[1:35:48] Carolina at the Art of Living we're
[1:35:50] going to train people to do exactly I'm
[1:35:52] about to describe to teach other people
[1:35:55] this yoga and it's not easy to learn I
[1:35:58] mean we have 20 hours online where you
[1:36:00] learn this sort of theoretical basis so
[1:36:02] you're comfortable with it and able to
[1:36:05] intelligently respond to people when
[1:36:07] they say but my cousin is taking this
[1:36:09] medicine and look what's happened to her
[1:36:10] and they will have intelligent ways of
[1:36:13] understanding what's really going on
[1:36:14] informed and logical and secondly
[1:36:19] they'll get a deeper understanding of
[1:36:22] why the yoga does what it does and
[1:36:24] there's a test for after the 20 hours
[1:36:28] online that's sort of the theoretical
[1:36:30] part then there are 20 hours on the
[1:36:32] ground 20 hours in the way in the
[1:36:35] workshop which is what we're gonna do it
[1:36:37] in yo well I call it AOL yeah you call
[1:36:40] it that too no yeah yeah okay well and
[1:36:44] there we also give a test at the end we
[1:36:46] ask them to teach each other and we
[1:36:49] judge them because the the critical
[1:36:52] function of a teacher is first to
[1:36:53] inspire people to do it
[1:36:55] secondly to correct them so their
[1:36:57] alignment is good and third to progress
[1:37:00] them from the beginning poses so they
[1:37:03] can safely do the intermediate and
[1:37:05] safely go on from there to the classical
[1:37:09] poses and those are skills that I think
[1:37:12] maybe some people come by them naturally
[1:37:14] but they can be taught to and for you
[1:37:17] know people who are online listening and
[1:37:20] may be interested in this training and
[1:37:23] certification there will be a link to
[1:37:25] the training in the chat box as well as
[1:37:27] the comments also if you have questions
[1:37:31] you know feel free to put those in and
[1:37:33] this is a very kind of live interactive
[1:37:36] session we do have one question
[1:37:39] ready what does yoga do to the
[1:37:42] disintegrating cartilage and how and how
[1:37:45] well first osteoporosis ask your opinion
[1:37:48] are not cartilage disintegration their
[1:37:51] bone and it's not really disintegration
[1:37:54] it's that there are cells they're called
[1:37:56] osteo sites osteoblasts which make bone
[1:38:00] and then there are cells called
[1:38:02] osteoclasts that eat up the bone return
[1:38:05] the protein to the systemic circulation
[1:38:07] so there's a given a take here are cells
[1:38:10] laying down bone here or cells eating up
[1:38:12] bone and what most of the medicines do
[1:38:15] just to give you some perspective is
[1:38:18] they the laying down of bone goes on
[1:38:20] unaffected but they disable and reduce
[1:38:23] the number of the cells that eat up bone
[1:38:27] so now in order to understand what yoga
[1:38:31] does you have to understand Wolf's law
[1:38:34] this is a 19th century german named
[1:38:38] julius wolf was an anatomist and a
[1:38:40] surgeon and he disguise formulated that
[1:38:44] the the lines of force put upon a bone
[1:38:51] determine the laying down of bone he
[1:38:54] said it like this the architectonic of
[1:38:56] bone is determined by the lines of force
[1:38:58] to which that bone is subjected and I
[1:39:02] mean it's an interesting story
[1:39:03] it wasn't he it was another man in in
[1:39:06] colon and cologne in northern Germany
[1:39:08] with making a crane there an engineer he
[1:39:11] wandered into a Natural History Museum
[1:39:13] and he saw the bones of a vultures wing
[1:39:17] and he grasped us for it and he said
[1:39:20] mine got the the bones of the vultures
[1:39:24] wing were exactly what he was doing what
[1:39:27] the head of the crane no you know isn't
[1:39:29] God wonderful isn't what a how
[1:39:31] miraculous and he published a little
[1:39:33] paper and that's when Julius Wolfe
[1:39:34] figure picked it up and he said I seen
[1:39:36] this all the time and that's when you
[1:39:38] formulated wolf's law and published it
[1:39:41] now what is Malala
[1:39:43] Wolf's law states that if you put
[1:39:45] pressure on a bone it's going to build
[1:39:47] up more bone exactly where you put the
[1:39:50] pressure so it takes the head of the
[1:39:51] femur for
[1:39:52] for a moment yeah when you're born your
[1:39:55] femur is dead straight little thick
[1:39:58] little arrow but by the time you're five
[1:40:01] years old it's been like this because
[1:40:02] every time you take a step you
[1:40:04] cantilever off of that hip and the
[1:40:07] pressure is all in here so it builds up
[1:40:09] bone here and the bone over here gets no
[1:40:11] use at all so little by little it bends
[1:40:14] like that now that's not genetic because
[1:40:17] little children who unfortunately cannot
[1:40:19] ever walk you know children with spina
[1:40:22] bifida and cerebral palsy and stuff ear
[1:40:25] bone stays straight as an arrow even
[1:40:27] when they're five or ten or 20 so what's
[1:40:31] genetic is the propensity the ability to
[1:40:34] respond to the pressure that's built
[1:40:37] into all of us and let me tell you yoga
[1:40:40] puts more pressure on the bones than
[1:40:42] gravity huh that's I mean you would you
[1:40:45] like me to prove to you that yoga that
[1:40:47] your muscles are stronger than gravity
[1:40:49] I'm sure you would so here I go you
[1:40:52] ready yes
[1:40:53] steady yes here I go small interesting
[1:41:06] planet you know if you couldn't move the
[1:41:11] muscles be doing so yoga very often for
[1:41:15] example in soup depend on gusta sauna
[1:41:18] and in many poses is opposing one group
[1:41:22] of muscles with another so not only do
[1:41:24] you get many times the force of gravity
[1:41:26] you get many times the force of gravity
[1:41:28] multiplied times two because there are
[1:41:31] those pulling this way and those pulling
[1:41:32] this way and the bone is in the middle
[1:41:33] and that is my best explanation for how
[1:41:38] yoga does it now if you really are
[1:41:41] interested in cartilage
[1:41:42] I believe Yoga does do fabulous things
[1:41:44] for cartilage too I don't know if you
[1:41:47] want me to explain this or not I I
[1:41:50] certainly am happy to do it but it might
[1:41:53] be off the point I could say a little
[1:41:56] bit so in in off since on osteoarthritis
[1:42:02] don't we lose cartilage and how did
[1:42:04] you'll get help with that that's
[1:42:06] ha ha osteoarthritis of course that's
[1:42:08] not osteoporosis ok your arthritis is
[1:42:12] the joint at the end of this bone the
[1:42:15] joint of this phone osteoporosis is the
[1:42:18] middle yeah
[1:42:19] so that they're different they apply to
[1:42:21] different places but Yoga does help with
[1:42:23] osteoarthritis too and it doesn't in a
[1:42:27] variety of ways one ways I wish I could
[1:42:29] give you a picture of a good old joint
[1:42:31] um I just might understand that maybe I
[1:42:34] can do that here the knee take the knee
[1:42:38] yes big bone here
[1:42:40] a little bone right there and then a
[1:42:41] large bone going all the way down yeah
[1:42:44] inside this joint it's fluid and that
[1:42:48] fluid is critical to the joints proper
[1:42:51] functioning mmm because the the
[1:42:54] cartilage that lines that joint needs
[1:42:58] oxygen glucose protein hormones and it
[1:43:02] also needs to get rid of the products of
[1:43:04] metabolism lactic acid and so on which
[1:43:07] are quite toxic so there are no blood
[1:43:10] vessels in these joints it would be
[1:43:12] terrible to have blood vessels in your
[1:43:14] knee
[1:43:14] cuz every time you took a step and they
[1:43:18] wouldn't last so the knee as a joint as
[1:43:21] a as a capsule that holds all the fluid
[1:43:23] in there and the walls of that capsule
[1:43:26] are filled with little blood vessels are
[1:43:29] called synovium and they secrete the
[1:43:32] synovial fluid which floats around in
[1:43:34] there now what does yoga do well yoga
[1:43:37] makes sure through its eccentric and
[1:43:39] extreme motions make sure that that that
[1:43:42] fluid gets circulated to the very edges
[1:43:45] so they're big tips and corners of the
[1:43:47] joint and it's those tips and corners
[1:43:49] that usually initiate osteoarthritis huh
[1:43:52] first secondly yoga this is a little
[1:43:56] more advanced than you wanted to know
[1:43:58] you don't want to know what this want to
[1:43:59] tell you anyway Yoga this stimulates the
[1:44:04] release of a chemical from our bone from
[1:44:07] our muscles called P G c1 alpha it's a
[1:44:11] really catchy name I know P G C 1 alpha
[1:44:15] P G C 1 alpha happens to be first a very
[1:44:20] anti-inflammatory and it does reduce the
[1:44:22] incidence of all kinds of cancers
[1:44:24] gastrointestinal cancers genital cancers
[1:44:26] you know uterus breast prostate and and
[1:44:31] melanoma it really does reduce the
[1:44:32] incidence of those but also it's the
[1:44:36] strongest known stimulant for
[1:44:38] mitochondria mitochondria are those
[1:44:41] little tiny vesicles inside every cell
[1:44:44] every every animal cell I think there
[1:44:47] are one or two crazy exceptions and
[1:44:50] they're the power stations there would
[1:44:52] transfer translate your food into energy
[1:44:55] you know that's where the Krebs cycle
[1:44:57] goes on it's where ATP is generated you
[1:45:01] know it's it's where the cell gets its
[1:45:04] its energy and as I say yoga stimulates
[1:45:09] release of a chemical which stimulates
[1:45:12] the mitochondria mm-hmm these strongest
[1:45:16] Emma's in increasing the number of
[1:45:18] mitochondria and their activity and when
[1:45:21] it comes to joints and cartilage well
[1:45:25] the more and the more mitochondria you
[1:45:27] have the better they those cells are the
[1:45:29] stronger they are the more resistant to
[1:45:32] disease infection and damage well I mean
[1:45:38] there are other ways too but I think
[1:45:39] those are two big ones sure and to step
[1:45:42] back for a second what has been for you
[1:45:45] the most fascinating discovery in this
[1:45:47] whole journey well it's not very much
[1:45:53] for publication but the very the most
[1:45:54] interesting thing for me has been me
[1:45:58] I've learned so much about myself well I
[1:46:01] don't think I can
[1:46:03] I mean learning about osteoporosis has
[1:46:05] been wonderful we have some other cures
[1:46:07] for us frosty arthritis for scoliosis
[1:46:11] that was pretty interesting we found a
[1:46:12] way to actually reverse scoliosis and we
[1:46:15] found a way to reduce the pain and
[1:46:18] increase the range of motion after
[1:46:19] rotator cuff I mean this arm of mine
[1:46:22] over here I had I won't tell you the
[1:46:25] whole story but I had a terrible rotator
[1:46:27] cuff and I could not raise my arm above
[1:46:29] here to save my soul but I
[1:46:33] I had one day and I made appointments
[1:46:35] with the two greatest surgeons in New
[1:46:37] York for the shoulder and wait a month
[1:46:39] to see him instead of being a doctor
[1:46:41] myself and one day I just missed yoga so
[1:46:43] much I stood on my head
[1:46:45] the Iyengar way where you pull your
[1:46:46] shoulders away from your ears like my
[1:46:49] wife came downstairs she said Lauren and
[1:46:53] I got up and ready to be sheepish but I
[1:46:55] realized I could raise my arm
[1:46:58] well I kept the two appointments with
[1:47:01] the doctors and I they ask me question
[1:47:04] after where they looked at my MRI which
[1:47:05] is a massive tear I mean it's the worst
[1:47:07] kind of tear you can get you know the
[1:47:09] two parts of the muscle are rent asunder
[1:47:11] about 4 centimeters and then then grasp
[1:47:15] their foreheads and they said well what
[1:47:16] about this what about that finally they
[1:47:18] got around to the pusher well dr.
[1:47:19] Fishman what can you do I said well I
[1:47:21] can raise my arm like this I can raise
[1:47:24] my arm like this and they the room was
[1:47:26] totally silent and in each case these
[1:47:28] two doctors in different parts of the
[1:47:29] city they said you don't need surgery
[1:47:31] you're doing better than you will do
[1:47:33] after surgery whoa that really threw
[1:47:36] down the gauntlet to me and I hear an
[1:47:38] article is about I published I have
[1:47:40] about 1,500 patients with it now that
[1:47:42] I've cured about 90% of money I've got I
[1:47:46] just got a grant from the NIH to do a
[1:47:48] very interesting study in my opinion on
[1:47:51] to generate an objective scale for pain
[1:47:54] based on the fact that when they raise
[1:47:58] their arm the first time oh it hurts so
[1:48:00] much
[1:48:00] and when they raise arm after learning
[1:48:02] this maneuver doesn't run at all so here
[1:48:05] I am by the way at least 20 years later
[1:48:07] no probs now on this side I had surgery
[1:48:10] I didn't I had enough discovered this
[1:48:11] yet so I'd surgery this one's good too
[1:48:14] it hurts a little yes well well and when
[1:48:19] you said you learned about yourself was
[1:48:21] it this kind of learning discovery on
[1:48:23] the physical level or also on me well it
[1:48:26] is on the physical level too and there's
[1:48:27] no question about it but no I'm talking
[1:48:30] about on the intellectual or emotional
[1:48:32] or spiritual if you will level where I
[1:48:35] learned I think the main thing that you
[1:48:39] get with meditation at least that I get
[1:48:41] is that you feel safe enough to confront
[1:48:46] you feel safe enough to ask yourself the
[1:48:49] questions you've been assiduously
[1:48:51] avoided why did I do this why do I look
[1:48:56] down on him for doing that when I do it
[1:48:59] too so that that's where I think yoga
[1:49:04] has brought me further than any then I
[1:49:07] would have gotten otherwise and was this
[1:49:10] a byproduct of the practice or also kind
[1:49:13] of a part of it for yourself
[1:49:14] oh it's part of it I mean I I cannot
[1:49:20] convince myself that I don't have much
[1:49:22] further to go but I have learned
[1:49:25] something and the things I've learned
[1:49:29] fill me with humility you know and and
[1:49:33] with joy you made a very interesting
[1:49:36] comment a bit earlier that you
[1:49:40] you think you have figure out how yoga
[1:49:43] does help heal and I know we touched on
[1:49:46] a couple points related with
[1:49:48] osteoporosis osteoarthritis what else do
[1:49:52] you have to say there about how yoga
[1:49:55] does it well there are all kinds of
[1:49:57] different mechanisms you have to realize
[1:49:59] I'm a doctor certain have a kind of
[1:50:01] faith in basically material proofs
[1:50:05] ya know yoga may work in other ways too
[1:50:08] that I just I'm aware of or I'm not
[1:50:10] aware of but I can't prove anything
[1:50:11] that's for me it's always it's always a
[1:50:14] question of finding some solid reliable
[1:50:17] way of showing a difference between
[1:50:19] before and after and back pain is maybe
[1:50:23] a really good example there are to me
[1:50:27] there are seven different forms of back
[1:50:29] pain there's a herniated disc there
[1:50:31] spinal stenosis there are there are
[1:50:33] seven basic types of back pain and yoga
[1:50:36] works for all seven of them but not the
[1:50:38] same way what's good for a herniated
[1:50:41] disc is bad for stenosis and what's good
[1:50:44] for stenosis is bad for a herniated disc
[1:50:46] so it's not as though there's one thing
[1:50:48] this you know the way you say what does
[1:50:50] penicillin do kills germs yoga's not
[1:50:54] that way and if people are interested in
[1:50:59] you know learning more or finding a way
[1:51:01] to approach their herniated disc or back
[1:51:04] pain through yoga where would you
[1:51:06] recommend people go well this is a paid
[1:51:09] political announcement my book okay
[1:51:12] I've written about ten books on various
[1:51:15] subjects and about five of them on yoga
[1:51:16] and I just one is it's not so new
[1:51:19] anymore it's probably two years old
[1:51:20] called healing yoga no Norton publishes
[1:51:25] most of my books and they and it's got
[1:51:27] whole chapters on all seven of the kinds
[1:51:30] of back pain whoa and sometimes
[1:51:33] combinations work you know they have a
[1:51:35] piriformis syndrome and sacral iliac
[1:51:38] joint arrangement what do you do then so
[1:51:40] it doesn't cover every such combination
[1:51:43] but some of them so I recommend my book
[1:51:45] I got another book called sciatica which
[1:51:48] ought to be helpful in the same way and
[1:51:50] for osteoarthritis we have a book I
[1:51:53] wrote with Ellen Saltonstall called Yoga
[1:51:55] for osteoporosis arthritis yoga for
[1:52:00] arthritis and it also sounds like you
[1:52:03] had this kind of developing body of
[1:52:06] certified teachers who are also helping
[1:52:09] people with instruction in this oh yeah
[1:52:11] we we now I go around the country and I
[1:52:14] teach I mean we've taught in San
[1:52:16] Francisco and certainly taught in North
[1:52:18] Carolina and other Chicago in places we
[1:52:21] now have teachers in 37 states beautiful
[1:52:25] about six countries you know sweet know
[1:52:29] Norway Switzerland Israel Singapore and
[1:52:33] Canada and maybe one other one somewhere
[1:52:36] so in other countries and so Australia a
[1:52:40] couple in Australia already and if you
[1:52:43] want to be in the study you have to see
[1:52:46] a yoga teacher every two weeks and if
[1:52:47] there is there's one near you great but
[1:52:50] if there isn't one near you we will
[1:52:52] Skype with you mmm you know you really
[1:52:55] can Skype this material you watch them
[1:52:58] you give them pointers you estimate how
[1:53:01] hard they're trying I mean there really
[1:53:03] are two basic principles one is the
[1:53:06] wonderful alignment that mr. Iyengar
[1:53:09] understood so accurately and secondly
[1:53:12] trying hard and because the alignment is
[1:53:15] so important and can be understood and
[1:53:18] followed so well you can try hard
[1:53:20] without hurting yourself hmm no if you
[1:53:23] were off like this doing a yoga pose and
[1:53:25] you tried really hard you could hurt
[1:53:27] yourself but if you stay straight and in
[1:53:29] all the ways that it's important to do
[1:53:31] so you can try really hard put an awful
[1:53:34] lot of pressure on your bones but hurt
[1:53:36] nothing
[1:53:39] so before we wind up I was wondering if
[1:53:42] we could take one of these uh you know
[1:53:45] these questions that you you mentioned
[1:53:47] that you kind of found the the
[1:53:50] confidence to ask yourself those
[1:53:53] questions that we assiduously avoid
[1:53:55] maybe you could share a question for the
[1:53:58] group to reflect on and to be with well
[1:54:03] yeah I mean it's easy I can think of I
[1:54:05] my questions may not be the same as the
[1:54:07] next person's questions but one of my
[1:54:10] questions was why are you so eager to
[1:54:12] prove that you are better than the next
[1:54:14] person
[1:54:16] that was one before I just focused on
[1:54:20] proving I was better which of course is
[1:54:24] pretty impossible but I could convince
[1:54:26] myself and maybe convince somebody else
[1:54:28] oh and that really proves it doesn't and
[1:54:31] another one is what is it about him that
[1:54:36] you don't like and that one I think we
[1:54:41] all feel that sometimes and what I found
[1:54:43] to be the overwhelming answer not every
[1:54:46] member every time but very much more
[1:54:48] than half the time because it's
[1:54:50] something about myself that I don't like
[1:54:52] and I really don't want to see in
[1:54:55] somebody else I mean that's really
[1:54:57] offensive so and then you want to say
[1:55:02] yourself well why don't I like that
[1:55:04] about me what's wrong with that
[1:55:05] and these are things that you Jim at
[1:55:10] least I generally hide these things from
[1:55:12] my self my selfishness my insecurities
[1:55:16] desire to one-up other people you know
[1:55:20] why is it so important to me hmm you
[1:55:23] know which it has been in my life you
[1:55:26] know so much
[1:55:27] I consider you know when I look back at
[1:55:29] my life years ago I would say what are
[1:55:31] my real triumphs well I did better than
[1:55:33] he did I get better than she did you
[1:55:35] know it was he's always a question of
[1:55:38] better than not good did you do any good
[1:55:41] huh
[1:55:42] and to come to that it's it's easy to
[1:55:45] say it but to actually go through the
[1:55:47] the analysis you have to go through to
[1:55:50] understand what the difference is not so
[1:55:53] easy well so those are some of the
[1:55:56] things I was able to to recognize and
[1:55:59] there are many more I mean I I'm sure I
[1:56:02] have as many more or more more than that
[1:56:04] that I haven't recognized yet but coming
[1:56:07] to that realization gives you great
[1:56:08] curiosity about yourself hmm I mean my
[1:56:12] great teacher mr. Iyengar
[1:56:13] said the greatest adventure in a man's
[1:56:16] life and I assume he means a woman's
[1:56:18] life too is getting to know yourself you
[1:56:24] know we're really complex little
[1:56:26] cesspools and we can clear it all up but
[1:56:31] it's it's hard and it's a dirty you have
[1:56:37] to have that sort of confidence and high
[1:56:39] spirit to plumb the depths and come up
[1:56:43] clean well thank you so much for sharing
[1:56:49] with us tonight and sharing a research
[1:56:52] your spirit your insights over the years
[1:56:54] and pleasure okay I really have enjoyed
[1:56:58] it a lot so I hope we I hope you get
[1:57:03] together again and I guess are you down
[1:57:05] there will I see you in June most
[1:57:09] certainly I am I'm here and we will see
[1:57:11] you uh up in the mountains again okay
[1:57:16] pleasure my pleasure thank you dr.
[1:57:18] Lauren and uh hope any of our viewers
[1:57:20] also on you know if you're interested in
[1:57:22] a certification you'd like to learn more
[1:57:24] please do click on that link and you
[1:57:27] know consider joining us this summer and
[1:57:29] we would love to see more more people
[1:57:31] out there and have spreading this
[1:57:33] wonderful healing message it seems a so
[1:57:36] valuable