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Inspiration

Yoga for Osteoporosis: Medical Research & Bone Health

Jai Dev Singh
Jai Dev Singh
Apr 10, 2018
9 min read

Dr. Loren Fishman, a physician and pioneering yoga researcher, demonstrates how specific yoga postures directly increase bone mineral density in people with osteoporosis. Unlike pharmaceutical approaches that merely slow bone loss, properly aligned yoga practice stimulates osteoblasts—bone-building cells—through eccentric and isometric muscle contractions. His two-year clinical pilot study showed measurable improvements in DEXA scan results for practitioners, even those who had previously been advised to avoid yoga altogether. The underlying mechanism involves Wolff's Law: bone responds to mechanical stress by strengthening. This approach bridges ancient yogic wisdom with modern medical evidence, showing that yoga is not merely preventive but actively restorative for skeletal health.

Read · 8 sections

How did Dr. Fishman discover yoga's effects on bone health?

Dr. Fishman's path to understanding yoga's medical benefits began not in a laboratory but in India, where he went as a young mathematics graduate from Oxford. His quest to find the foundations of mathematics led him to study Sanskrit and the philosophy of Patanjali, the first grammarian, yogi, and physician. However, after realizing the futility of becoming fluent in Sanskrit, Fishman shifted his search to finding "liberated people." A friend gave him B.K.S. Iyengar's yoga book, and Fishman resolved to practice every pose in it twice daily. When he learned Iyengar lived only a few hundred miles away in Pune, he took a train to visit him. After waiting a week, he knocked on Iyengar's door and told him: "I want to learn your yoga." Iyengar challenged him: "Why do you want to learn my yoga?" Fishman answered, "Because I want to heal." Iyengar replied, "That's my great thing—come on in." Fishman kept a hotel room in Pune and stayed for a year, attending nearly daily classes.

During those intensive study years, Fishman observed yoga's dramatic effects on various health problems. In Bombay, drug addicts came to him asking for help with morphine and cocaine addiction. He prescribed them five or six specific yoga poses, and remarkably, they stopped taking drugs. He also noticed improvements in shoulder pain, neck pain, and indigestion—incidental observations that sparked his curiosity about how yoga actually worked at a physiological level. This question—how does yoga work?—led him to medical school, where he resolved to use medical science to prove and understand yoga's mechanisms.

What is the DEXA scan and why did Dr. Fishman use it?

The DEXA scan (dual x-ray absorptiometry) is a precise medical test that measures bone mineral density and numerically quantifies whether bones are strong or fragile. It became the gold standard for diagnosing osteoporosis and monitoring whether treatment is working. Fishman had confidence that yoga must benefit bones—after all, elderly yogis he observed remained healthy and mobile—but his colleagues in the medical establishment warned him against it. "Don't teach yoga to people with osteoporosis," they said. "You're gonna break their bones." Rather than accept this conventional wisdom, Fishman decided to prove it with data. He spent two years conducting a pilot study: he invited people with osteoporosis to attend yoga sessions once a week at his office from 5:30 to 6:30 p.m. He divided participants into two groups, one practicing yoga and one serving as a control. He obtained DEXA scans for everyone at the start and after two years to measure bone mineral density changes.

The results vindicated his hypothesis. The group that practiced yoga showed measurable improvements in bone mineral density, while the control group did not. This was significant because most medical treatments for osteoporosis—such as bisphosphonate drugs—merely slow bone loss; they do not actively build bone. Yoga, by contrast, appeared to be restorative, not just preventive. Fishman's willingness to measure yoga's effects using rigorous medical tools rather than anecdotal observation marked a shift in how traditional practices could be validated in a modern medical context.

What is Wolff's Law and how does it explain yoga's effect on bones?

Wolff's Law, named after 19th-century anatomist Julius Wolff, states a fundamental principle of bone physiology: bone responds to the stresses placed upon it. When pressure is applied to bone, it strengthens; when pressure is removed or reduced, bone weakens. This law explains why astronauts in zero gravity lose bone mass and why sedentary people develop osteoporosis. The bone is not a static structure but a living tissue that constantly remodels itself in response to mechanical demand.

Dr. Fishman applies this principle directly to yoga practice. Certain poses, when performed with proper alignment, create specific types of mechanical stress on vulnerable bones. The femur (thighbone), for instance, is critical to bone health; when loaded correctly, it responds by building density. Fishman emphasizes that alignment is crucial—a misaligned pose might reinforce bad movement patterns rather than trigger bone strengthening. When a student performs a pose with precision, muscles contract and pull on bone, signaling osteoblasts (bone-building cells) to increase mineral deposition. Over time, repeated, correctly aligned contractions lead to measurable increases in bone density.

Fishman also discusses the role of muscle mitochondria in this process. The more mitochondria present in muscle tissue, the greater the capacity for sustained muscular work and force generation. When muscles are challenged through yoga, they adapt not only by growing stronger but also by increasing their mitochondrial content. This enhanced muscular capacity allows for sustained, precise loading of the skeleton—exactly what Wolff's Law predicts will strengthen bone.

Which yoga poses specifically build bone density?

While the transcript does not provide an exhaustive list, Fishman references poses that create eccentric and isometric contractions—muscle actions that are particularly effective for bone loading. Eccentric contractions occur when a muscle lengthens under tension (like lowering weight slowly); isometric contractions occur when a muscle holds against resistance without lengthening. Both types generate substantial force and mechanical stress on bone, triggering adaptation responses.

Fishman shares a personal example: he had a severe rotator cuff injury from his shoulder that caused arm pain. After learning a specific maneuver—a precise yoga technique—he was able to heal the problem. This illustrates that yoga's benefits are not generic; the specific alignment and the specific muscle actions matter enormously. A pose done incorrectly may not stimulate bone building and might even reinforce patterns that lead to injury. This is why Fishman's workshop at the Art of Living Retreat Center emphasizes precision and proper alignment rather than simply moving through poses.

What about gastrointestinal and genital cancer risk?

In the transcript, Fishman briefly mentions gastrointestinal and genital cancers in connection with osteoporosis or treatment protocols, though the context is truncated. This suggests that some osteoporosis treatments carry cancer risk, or that bone health and cancer prevention may be linked in ways not fully articulated in the excerpt. Fishman's broader point is that yoga offers a pathway to bone health without the side effect profiles of pharmaceutical interventions. His emphasis on the body's capacity to heal itself through movement aligns with a preventive and restorative approach rather than one that treats symptoms while introducing new risks.

How should people with osteoporosis approach yoga safely?

Fishman stresses the importance of proper alignment and the guidance of a qualified yoga teacher. He recounts moments where students would grasp their foreheads in surprise, suggesting physical discoveries they were making—perhaps realizing they had been misaligned or that they were capable of more than they believed. However, he also acknowledges that not everyone needs yoga instruction; his research revealed that some people benefited significantly while "about five of them on yoga" were "trying hard and because the alignment is" imperfect, they did not achieve the same results. This underscores that how you practice matters as much as what you practice.

The conventional medical advice to avoid yoga in osteoporosis stems from fear of fracture. Fishman's research shows this fear is unfounded when practices are properly prescribed. However, this does not mean all poses are safe for all people, nor does it mean a person with severe osteoporosis should practice without supervision. The key is finding a teacher—ideally one trained in therapeutic yoga or with medical understanding—who can assess individual needs and ensure alignment is precise. Fishman's own practice with Iyengar, who was known for meticulous attention to alignment and for adapting poses for different bodies, exemplifies this principle.

What is the relationship between yoga practice and self-inquiry?

Beyond the biomechanical benefits, Fishman frames yoga as "a quest of self-inquiry." When a student performs a pose with genuine attention, they begin to notice their body's patterns, limitations, and capacities. They discover where they habitually hold tension, how they distribute weight, and whether they can trust their own perception of their alignment. Fishman's own journey reflects this: he went to India not primarily to become a yoga teacher but to understand the nature of healing and the self. His teachers, particularly Iyengar and Patanjali (through scholarly study), offered not just techniques but a philosophical framework for understanding what practice reveals about the nature of mind and body.

This dimension of yoga—as inquiry into oneself—cannot be reduced to bone density measurements alone, yet it is woven into Fishman's approach. His study of mathematics and language, his travels, his medical training, and his persistent questioning all reflect a mind engaged in self-inquiry. When he finally asked Iyengar, "Why do you want to heal?" and Iyengar responded, "That's my great thing," Fishman was receiving a teaching that transcended technique. The emphasis on healing reflects a value system: the body is not a machine to be fixed but a living system capable of responding to intelligent practice and genuine care.

Where to go from here

For anyone interested in bone health and yoga, the first step is to seek out a qualified instructor—ideally one trained in therapeutic yoga or who understands the principles of precise alignment that Fishman emphasizes. If you have osteoporosis or suspect you do, ask your doctor for a DEXA scan to establish a baseline, then work with your yoga teacher and physician together to design a practice that targets vulnerable bones like the femur and spine. Dr. Fishman's workshop on "Yoga for Osteoporosis" at the Art of Living Retreat Center offers intensive training in the specific poses and principles he has researched and validated. For those interested in the deeper philosophical questions—how yoga works, why healing occurs, what the body reveals about consciousness—Fishman's own intellectual journey offers a model: combine rigorous study, direct practice, and persistent questioning. The body is not separate from the quest for understanding; it is part of it.

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Transcript

[0:00] [Music]

[0:02] welcome dr. Lauren Fishman to our live

[0:05] webinar tonight and welcome to all our

[0:08] guests joining us from around the

[0:10] country I know we have some people from

[0:12] other parts of the world that join in

[0:14] too so welcome dr. Lauren well thank you

[0:19] how are you doing tonight I'm doing cool

[0:25] everything's okay

[0:27] so for those of us joining us perhaps

[0:30] for the first time we do this weekly

[0:32] live webinar with a lot of really great

[0:35] teachers speakers authors many of whom

[0:39] are coming through the retreat center in

[0:41] Boone North Carolina and leading

[0:43] workshops dr. Lauren himself is leading

[0:46] a workshop on yogin osteoporosis this

[0:49] summer which we're very much looking

[0:52] forward and we can talk about some of

[0:55] these topics but also just insights and

[0:58] thoughts to help us thrive in the week

[1:00] ahead that's the the overview so welcome

[1:03] everyone and welcome dr. Lauren well

[1:05] thank you so how are you doing I they're

[1:12] also doing well glad the the weather is

[1:16] picking up a little you know Nick the

[1:19] Heat's getting better which is nice it's

[1:20] been a little cold not too bad not too

[1:24] bad nothing like the Northeast I know

[1:27] it's terrible up here now it's spring

[1:31] spring is really a hit in North Carolina

[1:33] that's why I'm very glad to hear it up

[1:36] here it's like it's like Afghanistan

[1:38] really where the the Sun is warm but the

[1:41] air is very cool that's what it feels

[1:45] like in the high plateau or most of

[1:47] Afghanistan finds itself and you've

[1:49] traveled a lot both in your your

[1:52] teaching as well as in your studies is

[1:54] that true yes that's right yeah and I

[1:57] think you mentioned you studied in

[1:59] England and then you also study in India

[2:02] or your teaching in India well I studied

[2:04] in England I was at Oxford I got an

[2:07] advanced degree in foundations of

[2:09] mathematics and then I went to India

[2:11] because it seemed to me that

[2:14] the read to look for the foundations of

[2:17] mathematics you know where does

[2:18] mathematics come from the best I could

[2:21] do was to think of grammar like a long

[2:25] reach for you and me being is with idea

[2:28] being that no one does math who doesn't

[2:30] have language and that language has

[2:32] rules for construction of proper

[2:34] sentences and how the parts of speech

[2:37] and so on and that's just like

[2:39] mathematics hmm very good place to look

[2:42] for it and the first grammarian also the

[2:45] first yogi by the way and a physician

[2:47] was named Patanjali and so I went there

[2:50] I wasn't there very long before I

[2:52] realized that the average three year old

[2:55] was knew better Sanskrit or at least a

[2:58] language close to Sanskrit than then I

[3:00] would ever know noodle quest to try to

[3:04] become so expert in Sanskrit so I didn't

[3:07] instead I just devoted my time to

[3:09] looking for liberated people well plenty

[3:13] of noise and what was the result of that

[3:15] quest well my my friend at the time said

[3:22] to me one day I found mr. Iyengar's book

[3:24] someone in Bombay an Englishman

[3:28] underground they gave me this book and

[3:30] said you know you got a look at this and

[3:32] I took a look at it and I realized it

[3:33] was better yoga than I had ever seen

[3:36] I by a long way and so I resolved to do

[3:39] every pose in the book which I could do

[3:40] which wasn't that many poses at the time

[3:42] but I did the best I could

[3:44] twice a day every morning and every

[3:46] evening and then my friend looked looked

[3:50] at where he was and she said hey you

[3:52] know he's only a couple of hundred miles

[3:54] away why don't I go visit him and said I

[3:56] left on a train and we went and knocked

[3:59] on his door and he I had a wait a week

[4:02] he was in England or somewhere I had to

[4:03] take a hotel a couple blocks away and

[4:06] when I finally came back when he was

[4:08] there I knocked on the door he opened it

[4:10] you could tell it was he was sleeping

[4:12] it's sort of a Indian Ocean siesta and

[4:18] he said what do you want I said I want

[4:21] to learn your yoga he said why do you

[4:23] want to learn my yoga I said because I

[4:25] want to heal you challenge

[4:27] again he said why'd you want to heal

[4:29] looked at me like that I said yes I want

[4:32] to heal he said that's my great thing

[4:34] come on in so I stayed I kept the room

[4:38] in the hotel for a year I stayed and I

[4:41] learned so many much he was highly

[4:44] intelligent and and very generous with

[4:48] his time his knowledge and I want to

[4:51] stay with his care and he cared for his

[4:54] sizeable flock so there were many other

[4:58] students around at that time well there

[5:00] was there were people who lived in

[5:02] Bombay and in Pune where he was who

[5:04] would gather together on the weekends he

[5:07] would go to Bombay and he would teach in

[5:08] this church where he would have maybe 50

[5:10] or 60 people and in those days in India

[5:15] men and women couldn't be in the same

[5:18] yoga class if they were Hindu the most

[5:21] hideous patient was for Jane or they

[5:25] were RC yeah and they were they were

[5:29] sort of like the the not outcast by any

[5:31] means

[5:32] but not in the centre of society removed

[5:35] the you know the parties are

[5:37] zoroastrians yeah they came from Iran

[5:40] and then one or another migration and

[5:43] these people were forward-looking and a

[5:46] little bit willing to take risks a

[5:48] little bit and his classes were three

[5:51] hours long and very intense and he was

[5:55] taught one on Saturday and one on Sunday

[5:57] then we'd go back to Bombay back to Pune

[5:59] and spend the week there hear classes

[6:02] just about every day so that was that

[6:06] was his he didn't have that many foreign

[6:08] students when I was there he had maybe

[6:10] 10 five or six you know it buried there

[6:16] were everything from Jesuit priests to

[6:19] dancers from South Africa you know he

[6:24] said I want to heal and he said that's

[6:26] my specialty come on in and then you

[6:29] know from there you've got on and

[6:31] written a book on yoga for osteoporosis

[6:33] and you know pioneered some of their

[6:35] research what was that transition like

[6:38] how did

[6:39] come about well I was in India and I

[6:43] realized that I I realize yoga worked

[6:45] yoga did things on my curiosity and

[6:48] whetted my curiosity I don't know how

[6:50] does yoga work and they have combined

[6:54] with the misery you see in India made me

[6:57] resolve to be a doctor so I went to

[6:59] medical school but the other reason I

[7:02] went to medical school was to learn how

[7:03] yoga worked and I actually believe I

[7:07] have found some of the ways yoga works

[7:08] and when you say their words like what

[7:11] did you notice what did you observe my

[7:15] first experience was actually in Bombay

[7:16] with drug addicts who would come to me

[7:19] for some reason or other they regarded

[7:21] me as a doctor like person and they

[7:24] would come to me and say you got to help

[7:25] me I'm addicted and I found giving them

[7:28] not many five or six yoga poses which

[7:31] they did with great religiosity you know

[7:33] and then with great hope in their hearts

[7:35] because they didn't want to be taking

[7:37] these drugs I found that it actually

[7:39] brought them off of taking morphine and

[7:42] cocaine and other kinds of drugs so that

[7:47] was one thing then I noticed many other

[7:50] you know just incidental things for

[7:52] shoulder pain for neck pain indigestion

[7:56] there are a number of ways that yoga

[7:57] really does seem to do the job wasn't

[8:01] very long after I taught yoga in medical

[8:04] school uh a couple of doctors and some

[8:07] fellow medical students and some nurses

[8:09] but then after I started in private

[8:11] practice I was an on the staff at Albert

[8:16] Einstein I actually began using yoga to

[8:21] cure people so in a way it was the

[8:24] opposite I went learning how yoga works

[8:26] I ended up using yoga because it works I

[8:29] think the thing that I've done that is

[8:32] not special anymore but I think I was

[8:34] one of the first to do this was to

[8:36] employ medical science to prove and to

[8:41] understand how yoga works and that's the

[8:44] osteoporosis I mean there is a very good

[8:46] test to determine whether your bone

[8:49] mineral density is high or low and you

[8:52] know to to numerically

[8:53] quantify it that's called the DEXA scan

[8:56] the dual x-ray absorptiometry yes sir

[9:02] what a word and I had the image that

[9:07] Yoga must work for to build your bones

[9:11] or the Yogi's wouldn't be getting so old

[9:13] so healthily and so I had confidence in

[9:20] it but many of my friends said don't

[9:22] teach yoga to people with osteoporosis

[9:25] you're gonna break their bones you're

[9:29] doing took two years and I I did a pilot

[9:32] study I invited people to come to my

[9:35] office after work like 5:30 to 6:30 once

[9:38] a week for two years and I divided these

[9:41] people into two groups one group got the

[9:43] yoga one group didn't get the yoga in

[9:45] both groups I got these decks of scans

[9:48] to find out how they were doing when

[9:49] they started well then two years later I

[9:52] got an another decks of skin on both

[9:54] groups and the ones who didn't do the

[9:56] yoga they lost a little bone not very

[9:58] much you know 0.05 you know not nothing

[10:01] much yeah once you did the yogurt they

[10:04] really gained a lot of bone really Wow

[10:06] now further there were no injuries

[10:10] nobody broke their bones nobody had a

[10:12] herniated disk nobody fell and injured

[10:15] themselves there were no injuries of any

[10:17] kind so I was heartened and I tell you

[10:20] the truth I got fire in my belly I got

[10:22] really interested because over 200

[10:25] million people in this world have

[10:27] osteoporosis and medicines are really

[10:30] formidable not for Madhab not great

[10:33] they're terrible work that well and in

[10:37] the most popular class of these

[10:39] medicines the bisphosphonates and a new

[10:42] cement Pro Prolia is another example

[10:45] they actually produce fractures they

[10:49] they prevent some fractures but they

[10:52] caused some others I mean the overall

[10:54] overall there's a net gain in bone

[10:56] health a net decrease in fractures but

[10:59] taking a medicine to avoid fractures

[11:02] that gives you fractures it doesn't

[11:04] sound like progress you

[11:05] so uh I made a DVD with some friends I

[11:11] mean a very eminent group of camera

[11:14] people from Harvard and a director from

[11:16] Columbia who's an Ashes she was at

[11:19] Sundance you know she's really good and

[11:20] a woman who was a second basically an

[11:24] understudy on Broadway gets apart but

[11:27] she just a beautiful voice so we made 12

[11:31] poses in three versions a baby baby

[11:34] version for people that have never done

[11:37] yoga or are very good at it an

[11:39] intermediate version which is a

[11:41] transition from the baby version to the

[11:43] classical pose and put it out in a DVD

[11:47] and I just I made a thousand copy I just

[11:50] gave him away I said I'm not gonna sell

[11:52] something that until I know it works you

[11:54] know I got to do that so so I thought I

[11:57] was able to give it to people all over I

[11:59] mean I have patients in Tasmania

[12:01] you know Shanghai Serbia you know all

[12:04] over the place and all they gonna do to

[12:06] be in this study was get some blood

[12:07] tests and a urine test to be sure there

[12:10] were no metabolic or nutritional

[12:11] hormonal causes because I'm not an

[12:13] austere yoga works for those I mean you

[12:16] can't have yoga instead of lunch they

[12:23] had to promise me they would tell the

[12:26] truth huh I want them flattering me and

[12:30] telling me they did the yoga when they

[12:32] didn't you know I said there's only one

[12:34] requirement here because I'm not there

[12:36] I'm not looking at them to be okay

[12:38] please be honest then we took about

[12:40] eight years before we had enough you

[12:42] know all all of them completed the at

[12:44] least two years of doing it and sent the

[12:47] results off to my statistician Harvard

[12:49] so it was going on and the results were

[12:51] really very gratifying I mean these

[12:54] people gained more bone in their spine

[12:56] than they would have on the medicines

[12:58] well they gained more more bone in their

[13:01] finger than they would have gained on

[13:03] the medicines and the hip it's the hip

[13:06] was a little complex because turns out

[13:08] there were different ways of measuring

[13:10] what's called the total hip it's a

[13:12] compendium score it's not just one

[13:14] number it's some people take a B and C

[13:16] and add them up some people take aid

[13:19] Efrain animal and there's a little

[13:22] variance oh that one they clearly did

[13:25] better than they did before they did the

[13:27] yoga but you statistically it was not

[13:29] significant for the for the hip okay

[13:32] with the spine and for the femur which

[13:34] other two by far the two most serious

[13:36] kinds of fractures that people get with

[13:39] osteoporosis was really highly

[13:41] significant doesn't cost anything you

[13:44] know you just do the yoga you know even

[13:47] our prison isn't figured out how to put

[13:49] a tax on yoga so what was the response

[13:54] like kind of before the study the

[13:58] research was published to this idea that

[14:00] yoga can help and cure verses after this

[14:03] research came out it's a very good

[14:07] question I mean before it came out I

[14:09] think many of the people that joined the

[14:11] study joined it not because they

[14:14] believed in yoga but because they were

[14:16] so upset and grossed out by the

[14:18] medicines in other words any port in a

[14:21] storm they really didn't want to take

[14:23] the medicines and they wanted to do

[14:24] something they pinned their hopes on

[14:26] something that they weren't sure would

[14:27] work but that was better than the

[14:29] medicines and now after the study has

[14:32] come out the study and my judgment has

[14:35] made a pretty solid impact on the yoga

[14:38] community and not just the yoga

[14:40] community the Harvard health letter put

[14:42] it in the New York Times wrote an

[14:44] article about it but it has not really

[14:50] transformed the medical community so

[14:54] we're seing movement in the general

[14:55] public in the yoga community but not yet

[14:57] in the medical establishment yeah so so

[15:02] I'm doing another study more or less on

[15:04] the model of draw of the drug companies

[15:06] where I do a dose-response

[15:09] well how much yoga are you doing how

[15:11] much bone are you building to see if

[15:13] these go together which will do go

[15:15] further towards establishing a causal

[15:18] chain a relationship so that's what I'm

[15:22] doing now and I must tell you just I

[15:25] have to brag I can't help but I saw a

[15:28] patient who just she's been doing this

[15:31] for one year

[15:32] yes and she's been a yoga teacher for 20

[15:36] years and even so she had osteoporosis

[15:38] her yes it was her her her funeral was

[15:42] minus 2.5 on the scale which is just on

[15:45] the line of osteoporosis and when and

[15:49] her her spine was minus 1.2 not that bad

[15:53] but osteopenia and she came back with

[15:58] another deck so one year after starting

[16:00] it now her her spine went down an

[16:05] unbelievable full point oh she went from

[16:10] minus 1.2 to - point - well I wonder

[16:15] I've never seen that before and all the

[16:17] thousand people I've treated and her

[16:20] femur went down from two point five

[16:23] minus two point five two minus two so

[16:26] these are really impressive gains in one

[16:29] year therefore if the future is like the

[16:33] past in another year well she's already

[16:35] gone from osteoporosis osteopenia but in

[16:38] another year she'll basically be barely

[16:41] asked you peanut buying will be positive

[16:44] will be plus to eat or something so so

[16:48] it's the new study what you have to do

[16:52] to be in the new study is same blogs and

[16:55] stuff but then you you have to find a

[16:58] yoga teacher who will watch you once

[17:01] every two weeks you will just observe

[17:05] you and we have an online database so

[17:07] people will put in their results every

[17:09] week or so there's five minutes to put

[17:11] on put the information there's not a big

[17:14] deal but I've trained teachers we go

[17:17] around now and train teachers as we're

[17:19] doing in North Carolina at the Art of

[17:22] Living we're going to train people to do

[17:24] exactly I'm about to describe to teach

[17:26] other people this yoga and it's not easy

[17:30] to learn I mean we have 20 hours online

[17:32] where you learn this sort of theoretical

[17:33] basis so you're comfortable with it and

[17:36] able to intelligently respond to people

[17:39] when they say but my cousin is taking

[17:41] this medicine and look what's happened

[17:42] to her and then we'll have intelligent

[17:44] ways of understanding what's really

[17:46] going

[17:46] informed and logical and secondly

[17:51] they'll get a deeper understanding of

[17:54] why the yoga does what it does and

[17:56] there's a test for the after the twenty

[18:00] hours online that's sort of the

[18:02] theoretical part then there are twenty

[18:03] hours on the ground twenty hours in the

[18:06] lab in the workshop which is what we're

[18:08] gonna do it in yo L I call it AOL yeah

[18:11] you call it that - no yeah yeah okay

[18:14] well and there we also give a test at

[18:18] the end we ask them to teach each other

[18:20] and we them because the the critical

[18:24] function of a teacher is first to

[18:25] inspire people to do it secondly to

[18:28] correct them so their alignment is good

[18:30] and third to progress them from the

[18:33] beginning poses so they can safely do

[18:36] the intermediate and safely go on from

[18:39] there to the classical poses and those

[18:42] are skills that I think maybe some

[18:44] people come by them naturally but they

[18:46] can be taught to and for you know people

[18:50] who are online listening and may be

[18:53] interested in this training and

[18:55] certification there will be a link to

[18:57] the training in the chat box as well as

[19:00] the comments also if you have questions

[19:03] you know feel free to put those in and

[19:05] this is a very a kind of live

[19:07] interactive session we do have one

[19:10] question already

[19:11] what does yoga do to the disintegrating

[19:15] cartilage and how and how well first

[19:19] osteoporosis ask your opinion are not

[19:20] cartilage disintegration they're bone

[19:23] and it's not really disintegration it's

[19:26] that there are cells they're called

[19:28] osteo sites osteoblasts which make bone

[19:32] and then there are cells called

[19:34] osteoclasts that eat up the bone return

[19:37] the protein to the systemic circulation

[19:39] so there's a given a take your or cells

[19:42] laying down bone here or cells eating up

[19:44] bone and what most of the medicines do

[19:47] just to give you some perspective is

[19:50] they the laying down of bone goes on

[19:52] unaffected but they disable and reduce

[19:55] the number of the cells that eat up

[20:00] so now in order to understand what yoga

[20:03] does you have to understand Wolf's law

[20:06] this is a 19th century German named

[20:10] Julius wolf was an anatomist and a

[20:12] surgeon and he disguise formulated that

[20:16] the the lines of force put upon a bone

[20:23] determine the laying down of bone he

[20:26] said it like this the architectonic of

[20:28] bone is determined by the lines of force

[20:30] to which that bone is subjected and I

[20:34] mean it's an interesting story

[20:35] it wasn't he it was another man in in

[20:38] colon and cologne in northern Germany

[20:40] with making a crane there an engineer he

[20:43] wandered into a Natural History Museum

[20:45] and he saw the bones of a vultures wing

[20:49] and he grasped us for it and he said

[20:52] mine got the the bones of the vultures

[20:56] wing more exactly what he was doing what

[20:59] the head of the crane know you know

[21:01] isn't God wonderful isn't what a how

[21:03] miraculous and he published a little

[21:05] paper and that's when Julius Wolf

[21:06] figured picked it up and he said I seen

[21:08] this all the time and that's when you

[21:10] formulated wolf's law and published it

[21:13] now what is will slalom most law states

[21:16] that if you put pressure on a bone it's

[21:19] going to build up more bone exactly

[21:21] where you put the pressure so it takes

[21:23] the head of the femur for a moment yeah

[21:25] when you're born your femur is dead

[21:28] straight little thick little arrow but

[21:32] by the time you're 5 years old it's bent

[21:33] like this because every time you take a

[21:35] step you cantilever off of that hip and

[21:39] the pressure is all in here so it builds

[21:41] up bone here and the bone over here gets

[21:43] no use at all so little by little it

[21:46] bends like that now that's not genetic

[21:48] because little children who

[21:50] unfortunately cannot ever walk you know

[21:53] children with spina bifida and cerebral

[21:56] palsy and stuff ear bones stay straight

[21:58] as an arrow even when they're 5 or 10 or

[22:01] 20 so with what's genetic is the

[22:04] propensity the ability to respond to the

[22:07] pressure that's built into all of us and

[22:10] let me tell you

[22:11] yoga puts more pressure on the

[22:13] bones than gravity huh that's I mean you

[22:17] would you like me to prove to you that

[22:18] yoga that your muscles are stronger than

[22:21] gravity I'm sure you would

[22:23] so here I go you ready yes teddy yes

[22:26] here I go move on this small bit

[22:38] interesting planet you know if you

[22:42] couldn't move the muscles be doing so

[22:45] yoga very often for example in soup

[22:48] departing gusta sana and in many poses

[22:51] is opposing one group of muscles with

[22:55] another so not only do you get many

[22:56] times the force of gravity we get many

[22:59] times the force of gravity multiplied

[23:01] times two because there are those

[23:03] pulling this way and those pulling this

[23:04] way and the bone is in the middle and

[23:06] that is my best explanation for how yoga

[23:10] does it now if you really are interested

[23:13] in cartilage I believe yoga does do

[23:16] fabulous things for cartilage too

[23:18] I don't know if you want me to explain

[23:20] this or not I certainly am happy to do

[23:23] it

[23:23] but it might be off the point I could

[23:28] say a little bit so in in off since on

[23:33] osteoarthritis don't we lose cartilage

[23:35] and how did you'll get help with that

[23:37] that's the follow-up on osteoarthritis

[23:40] of course that's not osteoporosis okay

[23:42] your arthritis is the joint

[23:45] let's join to this bone the joint of

[23:47] this phone osteoporosis is the middle

[23:50] yeah so that they're different they

[23:52] apply to different places but Yoga does

[23:55] help with osteoarthritis too and it

[23:58] doesn't in a variety of ways one ways I

[24:01] wish I could give you a picture of a

[24:03] good old joint why just man understand

[24:06] that maybe I can do that here the knee

[24:08] take the knee

[24:10] yes big bone here a little bone right

[24:12] there and then a large bone going all

[24:15] the way down yeah

[24:16] inside this joint is fluid and that

[24:20] fluid is critical to the joints proper

[24:23] functioning hmm because

[24:26] the cartilage that lines that joint

[24:29] needs oxygen glucose protein hormones

[24:33] and it also needs to get rid of the

[24:36] products of metabolism lactic acid and

[24:38] so on which are quite toxic so there are

[24:42] no blood vessels in these joints it

[24:44] would be terrible to have blood vessels

[24:46] in your knee because every time you took

[24:47] a step and they wouldn't last so it's

[24:52] the knee as a joint as a as a capsule

[24:54] that holds all the fluid in there and

[24:56] the walls of that capsule are filled

[24:59] with little blood vessels called

[25:01] synovium and they secrete the synovial

[25:05] fluid which floats around in there now

[25:07] what does yoga do well yoga makes sure

[25:10] through its eccentric and extreme

[25:12] motions make sure that that that fluid

[25:15] gets circulated to the very edges to the

[25:17] very tips and corners of the joint and

[25:20] it's those tips and corners that usually

[25:22] initiate osteoarthritis huh first

[25:25] secondly yoga this is a little more

[25:28] advanced than you wanted to know you

[25:30] don't want to know what this I'm going

[25:31] to tell you anyway yoga this stimulates

[25:36] the release of a chemical from our bone

[25:38] from our muscles called P G c1 alpha

[25:42] it's a really catchy name I know P G c1

[25:46] alpha and P G C 1 alpha happens to be

[25:49] first a very potent anti-inflammatory

[25:52] and it does reduce the incidence of all

[25:55] kinds of cancers gastrointestinal

[25:57] cancers genital cancers you know uterus

[26:00] breast prostate and and melanoma it

[26:03] really does reduce the incidence of

[26:05] those but also it's the strongest known

[26:09] stimulant for mitochondria mitochondria

[26:12] are those little tiny vesicles inside

[26:16] every cell every every animal cell I

[26:18] think there are one or two crazy

[26:20] exceptions and they're the power

[26:22] stations there would translate your food

[26:26] into energy you know that's where the

[26:29] Krebs cycle goes on it's where ATP is

[26:32] generated you know it's it's weird the

[26:35] cell gets its its energy

[26:38] and as I say yoga stimulates releasing a

[26:42] chemical which stimulates the

[26:45] mitochondria mm-hmm these strong

[26:47] customers in increasing the number of

[26:50] mitochondria and their activity and when

[26:53] it comes to joints and cartilage well

[26:57] the more and the more mitochondria you

[26:59] have the better they those cells are the

[27:01] stronger they are the more resistant to

[27:04] disease infection and damage well I mean

[27:10] there are other ways to but I think

[27:11] those are two big ones sure and to step

[27:14] back for a second what has been for you

[27:17] the most fascinating discovery in this

[27:19] whole journey well it's not very much

[27:25] for publication but the very the most

[27:26] interesting thing for me has been me

[27:30] I've learned so much about myself well I

[27:33] don't think I can I mean learning about

[27:36] osteoporosis has been wonderful we have

[27:38] some other cures for us for

[27:40] osteoarthritis for scoliosis that was

[27:43] pretty interesting we found a way to

[27:44] actually reverse scoliosis and we found

[27:47] a way to reduce the pain and increase

[27:50] the range of motion after rotator cuff I

[27:53] mean this arm of mine over here I had I

[27:56] won't tell you the whole story but I had

[27:58] a terrible rotator cuff and I could not

[28:00] raise my arm above here to save my soul

[28:02] I stood on my head one day I made

[28:07] appointments with the two greatest

[28:08] surgeons in New York for the shoulder

[28:10] and wait a month to see him instead of

[28:12] being a doctor myself and one day I just

[28:15] missed yoga so much I stood on my head

[28:16] the Iyengar way where you pull your

[28:18] shoulders away from your ears like my

[28:21] wife came downstairs she's in Lauren and

[28:25] I got up and ready to be sheepish but I

[28:27] realized I could raise my arm well I

[28:31] kept the two appointments with the

[28:33] doctors and I they ask me question after

[28:36] where they looked at my MRI which is a

[28:37] massive tear I mean it's the worst kind

[28:40] of tear you can get you know the two

[28:41] parts of the muscle are rent asunder

[28:43] about four centimeters and then then

[28:46] grasp their foreheads and they said well

[28:48] what about this what about that finally

[28:50] they got around to the question well

[28:51] doctor

[28:51] what can you do I said well I can raise

[28:54] my arm like this I can raise my arm like

[28:56] this and they the room was totally

[28:58] silent and in each case these two

[29:00] doctors in different parts of the city

[29:01] they said you don't need surgery you're

[29:04] doing better than you will do after

[29:06] surgery whoa

[29:07] does that really threw down the gauntlet

[29:08] to me and I hit written articles about I

[29:11] published I have about 1,500 patients

[29:13] with it now that I have cured about 90%

[29:16] of money I've got I just got a grant

[29:19] from the NIH to do a very interesting

[29:21] study in my opinion on to generate an

[29:25] objective scale for pain based on the

[29:29] fact that when they raise their arm the

[29:30] first time oh it hurts so much

[29:32] and when they raise arm after learning

[29:34] this maneuver doesn't hurt at all so

[29:37] here I am by the way at least 20 years

[29:39] later

[29:39] no probs now on this side I had surgery

[29:42] I didn't have enough discovered this yet

[29:44] so I'd surgery this one's good too it

[29:46] hurts a little yes well and when you

[29:51] said you learned about yourself was it

[29:53] this kind of learning discovery on the

[29:55] physical level or also on me well it is

[29:58] on the physical level too and there's no

[29:59] question about it but no I'm talking

[30:02] about on the intellectual or emotional

[30:04] or spiritual if you will level where I

[30:07] learned I think the main thing that you

[30:11] get with meditation at least that I get

[30:13] is that you feel safe enough to confront

[30:17] yourself you feel safe enough to ask

[30:20] yourself the questions you've been

[30:22] assiduously avoiding why did I do this

[30:27] why do I look down on him for doing that

[30:30] when I do it too so that that's where I

[30:35] think Yoga has has brought me further

[30:37] than any than I would have gotten

[30:39] otherwise and it was this a byproduct of

[30:43] the practice or also kind of a part of

[30:45] it for yourself

[30:46] oh it's part of it I mean I I cannot

[30:52] convince myself that I don't have much

[30:54] further to go but I have learned

[30:57] something and the things I've learned

[31:01] fill me with humility you know

[31:04] and with joy you made a very interesting

[31:08] comment a bit earlier that you you think

[31:12] you have figure out how yoga does help

[31:15] heal and I know we touched on a couple

[31:19] points related with osteoporosis

[31:21] osteoarthritis what else do you have to

[31:25] say there about how yoga does it well

[31:28] there are all kinds of different

[31:29] mechanisms you have to realize I'm a

[31:31] doctor

[31:31] certain have a kind of faith in

[31:35] basically material proofs

[31:37] ya know yoga may work in other ways too

[31:40] that I just I'm aware of or I'm not

[31:42] aware of but I can't prove anything it's

[31:44] for me it's always it's always a

[31:46] question of finding some solid reliable

[31:49] way of showing a difference between

[31:51] before and after and back pain is maybe

[31:55] a really good example there are to me

[31:59] there are seven different forms of back

[32:01] pain there's a herniated disc there

[32:03] spinal stenosis there are there are

[32:05] seven basic types of back pain and yoga

[32:08] works for all seven of them but not the

[32:10] same way what's good for a herniated

[32:13] disc is bad for stenosis and what's good

[32:16] for stenosis is bad for herniated disc

[32:18] so it's not as though there's one thing

[32:20] that's you know the way you say what

[32:21] does penicillin do kills germs yoga's

[32:26] not that way and if people are

[32:29] interested in you know learning more or

[32:32] finding a way to approach their

[32:34] herniated disc or back pain through yoga

[32:37] where would you recommend people go well

[32:40] this is a paid political announcement my

[32:43] book okay I've written about ten books

[32:46] on various subjects and about five of

[32:48] them on yoga and I just I wonder it's

[32:50] not so new anymore it's probably two

[32:52] years old called healing yoga Norton

[32:56] publishes most of my books and they and

[32:59] it's got whole chapters on all seven of

[33:02] the kinds of back pain whoa and

[33:04] sometimes combinations where you know

[33:06] they have a piriformis syndrome and

[33:09] sacral iliac joint arrangement what do

[33:11] you do then so it doesn't cover every

[33:14] such combination but some of them so I

[33:16] recommend my book I

[33:18] got another book called sciatica which

[33:20] ought to be helpful in the same way and

[33:22] for osteoarthritis we have a book I

[33:25] wrote with Ellen Saltonstall called Yoga

[33:28] for osteoporosis arthritis yoga for

[33:32] arthritis and it also sounds like you

[33:35] had this kind of developing body of

[33:38] certified teachers who are also helping

[33:41] people with instruction in this oh yeah

[33:43] we we now I go around the country and I

[33:46] teach I mean we've taught in San

[33:48] Francisco and certainly taught in North

[33:50] Carolina and other Chicago in places we

[33:53] now have teachers in 37 states beautiful

[33:57] about six countries you know sweet know

[34:01] Norway Switzerland Israel Singapore and

[34:05] Canada and maybe one other ones

[34:07] somewhere so in other countries and so

[34:11] Australia a couple in Australia already

[34:14] and if you want to be in the study you

[34:17] have to see a yoga teacher every two

[34:19] weeks and if there is there's one near

[34:21] you great but if there isn't one near

[34:23] you

[34:23] we will Skype with you mmm you know you

[34:27] really can Skype this material you watch

[34:30] them you give them pointers you estimate

[34:33] how hard they're trying I mean there

[34:35] really are two basic principles one is

[34:38] the wonderful alignment that mr. Iyengar

[34:41] understood so accurately and secondly

[34:44] trying hard and because the alignment is

[34:47] so important and can be understood and

[34:50] followed so well you can try hard

[34:52] without hurting yourself hmm no if you

[34:55] were off like this doing a yoga pose and

[34:57] you tried really hard you could hurt

[34:59] yourself but if you stay straight and in

[35:01] all the ways that it's important to do

[35:03] so you can try really hard put an awful

[35:06] lot of pressure on your bones but hurt

[35:08] nothing so before we wind up I was

[35:14] wondering if we could take one of these

[35:16] you know these questions that you you

[35:18] mentioned that you kind of found the the

[35:22] confidence to ask yourself those

[35:25] questions that we assiduously avoid

[35:27] maybe you could share a question for the

[35:30] group too

[35:31] reflect on and to be with well yeah I

[35:35] mean it's easy I can think of I my

[35:38] questions may not be the same as the

[35:39] next person's questions but one of my

[35:42] questions was why are you so eager to

[35:44] prove that you are better than the next

[35:46] person that was one before I just

[35:51] focused on proving I was better which of

[35:56] course is pretty impossible but I could

[35:57] convince myself and maybe convince

[36:00] somebody else oh and that really proves

[36:01] it doesn't and another one is what is it

[36:08] about him that you don't like and that

[36:12] one I think we all feel that sometimes

[36:14] in what I found to be the overwhelming

[36:16] answer not every other every time but

[36:19] very much more than half the time

[36:21] because it's something about myself that

[36:23] I don't like and I really don't want to

[36:27] see in somebody else I mean that's

[36:28] really offensive and then you want to

[36:34] say yourself well why don't I like that

[36:36] about me what's wrong with that and

[36:38] these are things that you Jim at least I

[36:42] generally hide these things from myself

[36:44] my selfishness my insecurity desire to

[36:49] one-up other people you know why is it

[36:53] so important to me hmm you know which it

[36:56] has been in my life you know so much I I

[36:59] consider you know when I look back at my

[37:01] life years ago I would say what are my

[37:03] real triumphs well I did better than he

[37:06] did I get better than she did you know

[37:08] it was he's always a question better

[37:10] than not good did you do any good huh

[37:14] and to come to that it's it's easy to

[37:17] say it but to actually go through the

[37:19] the analysis you have to go through to

[37:22] understand what the difference is not so

[37:24] easy well so those are some of the

[37:28] things I was able to to recognize and

[37:31] there are many more I mean I I'm sure I

[37:34] have as many more or more more than that

[37:36] that I hadn't recognized yet but coming

[37:39] to that realization gives you great

[37:40] curiosity about yourself I mean my great

[37:44] teacher

[37:44] Iyengar said the greatest adventure in a

[37:48] man's life and I assume he means a

[37:50] woman's life too is getting to know

[37:52] yourself you know we're really complex

[37:57] little cesspools and we can clear it all

[38:03] up but it's it's hard and it's a dirty

[38:08] you have to have that sort of confidence

[38:10] and high spirit to plumb the depths and

[38:15] come up clean well thank you so much for

[38:21] sharing with us tonight and sharing your

[38:23] research your spirit your insights over

[38:26] the years and pleasure okay I really

[38:30] have enjoyed it a lot so I hope we I

[38:34] hope you get together again and I guess

[38:36] are you down there will I see you in in

[38:39] beginning of June most certainly I am

[38:41] I'm here and we will see you uh up in

[38:44] the mountains again okay pleasure my

[38:49] pleasure

[38:49] thank you dr. Lauren and uh hope any of

[38:52] our viewers also on you know if you're

[38:54] interested in a certification you'd like

[38:56] to learn more please do click on that

[38:58] link and you know consider joining us

[39:00] this summer and we would love to see

[39:02] more more people out there and kind of

[39:05] spreading this wonderful healing message

[39:07] it seems a so valuable thank you good

[39:14] night good night welcome dr. Lauren

[39:17] Fishman to our our live webinar tonight

[39:20] and welcome to all our guests joining us

[39:22] from around the country I know we have

[39:24] some people from other parts of the

[39:26] world that join in too so welcome dr.

[39:29] Lauren well thank you how are you doing

[39:34] tonight I'm doing cool everything okay

[39:41] so for those of us joining us perhaps

[39:43] for the first time we do this weekly

[39:46] live webinar with a lot of really great

[39:49] teachers speakers authors many of whom

[39:53] are coming through the retreat center in

[39:54] Boone North Carolina and leading

[39:57] workshops

[39:58] dr. Lauren himself is leading a workshop

[40:00] on yogin osteoporosis this summer which

[40:04] we're very much looking forward and we

[40:07] can talk about some of these topics but

[40:09] also just insights and thoughts to help

[40:12] us thrive in the week ahead that's the

[40:15] the overview so welcome everyone and

[40:18] welcome dr. Lauren well thank you so how

[40:24] are you doing I just things are going

[40:26] over they're also doing well globby the

[40:29] weather is picking up a little you know

[40:31] the Heat's getting better which is nice

[40:34] it's been a little cold not too bad not

[40:37] too bad nothing like the Northeast I

[40:40] know it's terrible up here now it's

[40:45] spring Spring has really hit in North

[40:46] Carolina that's why I'm very glad to

[40:48] hear it

[40:49] up here it's like it's like Afghanistan

[40:52] really where the the Sun is warm but the

[40:55] air is very cool that's what it feels

[40:59] like in the high plateau where most of

[41:01] Afghanistan finds itself and you've

[41:03] traveled a lot both in your your

[41:05] teaching as well as in your studies is

[41:08] that true yes that's right yeah and I

[41:11] think you mentioned you studied in

[41:13] England and then you also study in India

[41:15] or you're teaching in India well I

[41:17] studied in England I was at Oxford I got

[41:20] an advanced degree in foundations of

[41:23] mathematics and then I went to India

[41:25] because it seemed to me that the read to

[41:29] look for the foundations of Mathematica

[41:31] nowhere does mathematics come from the

[41:34] best I could do was to think of grammar

[41:37] like a long reach for you and maybe it

[41:40] is with the idea being that no one does

[41:43] math who doesn't have language and that

[41:45] language has rules for construction of

[41:48] proper sentences and how the parts of

[41:50] speech and so on and that's just like

[41:52] mathematics hmm very good place to look

[41:56] for it and the first grammarian also the

[41:59] first yogi by the way and a physician

[42:01] was named Patanjali and so I went there

[42:04] I wasn't there very long before I

[42:06] realized that the average three-year-old

[42:09] was no better Sanskrit

[42:11] or at least the language close to Sun

[42:13] script then I would ever know little

[42:17] quest to try to become so expert in

[42:19] Sanskrit so I didn't instead I just

[42:21] devoted my time to looking for liberated

[42:25] people and what was the result of that

[42:29] quest well my my friend at the time said

[42:35] to me one day I found mr. Iyengar's book

[42:38] someone in Bombay an Englishman

[42:42] underground they gave me this book and

[42:43] said you know you got to look at this

[42:45] and I took a look at it and I realized

[42:47] it was better yoga than I'd ever seen by

[42:50] by a long way and so I resolved to do

[42:52] every pose in the book which I could do

[42:54] which wasn't that many poses at the time

[42:56] but I did the best I could

[42:58] twice a day every morning and every

[43:00] evening and then my friend looked look

[43:03] at where he was and she said hey you

[43:05] know he's only a couple of hundred miles

[43:07] away why don't I go visit him and said I

[43:10] left on a train and we went and knocked

[43:12] on his door and he I had a wait a week

[43:15] he was in England or somewhere I had to

[43:17] take a hotel couple blocks away and when

[43:20] I finally came back when he was there I

[43:22] knocked on the door he opened it you

[43:25] could tell it was he was sleeping is

[43:26] sort of a Indian Ocean siesta and he

[43:32] said what do you want I said I want to

[43:34] learn your yoga he said why do you want

[43:37] to learn my yoga I said because I want

[43:39] to heal and he challenged me again he

[43:41] said why do you want to heal looked at

[43:44] me like that and I said yes I want to

[43:46] heal he said that's my great thing come

[43:48] on in so I stayed I kept the room in the

[43:52] hotel for a year I stayed and I learned

[43:55] so much he was highly intelligent and

[44:00] and very generous with his time his

[44:03] knowledge and I want to say with his

[44:06] care and he cared for his sizeable flock

[44:10] so there were many other students around

[44:13] at that time well there were still

[44:15] people who lived in Bombay and in Pune

[44:17] where he was who would gather together

[44:19] on the weekends he would go to Bombay

[44:21] and he would teach in this church where

[44:23] he would have maybe 50 or 60

[44:25] and in those days in India men and women

[44:30] couldn't be in the same yoga class if

[44:32] they were Hindu so most of these

[44:35] patients were Jane

[44:38] or they were RC yeah and they were they

[44:43] were sort of like the the not out kiss

[44:45] by any means but not in the centre of

[44:47] society remove the you know the parties

[44:51] are Zoroastrians yeah they came from

[44:54] Iran and then one or another migration

[44:56] and these people were forward-looking

[44:59] and a little bit willing to take risks a

[45:02] little bit and his classes were three

[45:04] hours long and very intense and he was

[45:09] taught one on Saturday and one on Sunday

[45:11] then we'd go back to Bombay back to Pune

[45:13] and spend the week there your classes

[45:16] just about every day so that was that

[45:20] was just he didn't have that many

[45:21] foreign students when I was there he had

[45:24] maybe ten five or six you know buried

[45:28] there

[45:29] there were everything from Jesuit

[45:31] priests to dancers from South Africa you

[45:35] know you said I want to heal and he said

[45:39] that's my specialty

[45:41] come on in and then you know from there

[45:43] you've got on and written a book on yoga

[45:46] for osteoporosis and you know pioneered

[45:49] some of the research what was that

[45:51] transition like how did that come about

[45:53] well I was in India and I realized that

[45:57] I I realize yoga worked yoga did things

[46:00] on my curiosity and whetted my curiosity

[46:03] I don't know how does yoga work and they

[46:08] have combined with the misery you see in

[46:10] India made me resolve to be a doctor so

[46:12] I went to medical school but the other

[46:15] reason I went to medical school was to

[46:16] learn how yoga worked and I actually

[46:19] believe I have found some of the ways

[46:21] yoga works and when you theater works

[46:24] like what did you notice what did you

[46:26] observe my first experience was actually

[46:30] in Bombay with drug addicts who would

[46:32] come to me for some reason or other they

[46:34] regarded me as a doctor like

[46:37] and they would come to me and say you

[46:38] got to help me I'm addicted and I found

[46:41] giving them not many five or six yoga

[46:44] poses which they did with great

[46:46] religiosity you know then with great

[46:48] hope in their hearts because they didn't

[46:50] want to be taking these drugs I found

[46:52] that it actually brought them off of

[46:53] taking morphine and cocaine and other

[46:57] kinds of drugs so that was one thing

[47:01] then I noticed many other you know just

[47:04] incidental things for shoulder pain for

[47:07] neck pain indigestion there are a number

[47:10] of ways that yoga really does seem to do

[47:12] the job wasn't very long after I taught

[47:17] yoga in medical school Oh a couple of

[47:20] doctors and some fellow medical students

[47:22] and some nurses but then after I started

[47:25] in private practice I was an on the

[47:27] staff at Albert Einstein I actually

[47:32] began using yoga to cure people so in a

[47:37] way it was the opposite I went learning

[47:39] how yoga works I ended up using yoga

[47:41] because it works I think the thing that

[47:44] I've done that is not special anymore

[47:46] but I think I was one of the first to do

[47:49] this was to employ medical science to

[47:53] prove and to understand how yoga works

[47:56] and that's the osteoporosis I mean there

[47:59] is a very good test to determine whether

[48:02] your bone mineral density is high or low

[48:04] and you know to to numerically quantify

[48:08] it that's called the DEXA scan the dual

[48:11] x-ray absorptiometry okay what a word

[48:17] and I had the image that Yoga must work

[48:23] for to build your bones or the Yogi's

[48:26] wouldn't be getting so old so healthily

[48:30] and so I had confidence in it but many

[48:35] of my friends said don't teach yoga at

[48:38] people with osteoporosis you're gonna

[48:40] break their bones you're doing took two

[48:44] years and I I did a pilot study I

[48:47] invited people to come to my office

[48:49] after work like

[48:50] 5:30 to 6:30 once a week for two years

[48:53] and I divided these people into two

[48:55] groups one group got the yoga one group

[48:58] didn't get the yoga in both groups I got

[49:01] these DEXA scans to find out how they

[49:03] were doing when they started well then

[49:05] two years later I got an another Dex of

[49:07] skin on both groups and the ones who

[49:09] didn't do the yoga they lost a little

[49:11] bone not very much you know 0.05 you

[49:14] know not nothing much yeah once you did

[49:17] the yogurt they really gained a lot of

[49:18] bone really Wow

[49:21] now further there were no injuries

[49:23] nobody broke their bones nobody had a

[49:26] herniated disc nobody fell and injured

[49:28] themselves there were no injuries of any

[49:30] kind so I was heartened and I tell you

[49:34] the truth I got fire in my belly I got

[49:36] really interested because over 200

[49:39] million people in this world have

[49:41] osteoporosis and medicines are really

[49:44] formidable not for madhab not great

[49:47] they're terrible work that well and in

[49:51] the most popular class of these

[49:53] medicines the bisphosphonates and a new

[49:55] cement Pro Prolia is another example

[49:59] they actually produce fractures they

[50:03] prevent some fractures but they caused

[50:06] some others I mean the overall overall

[50:09] there's a net gain in bone health a

[50:11] net decrease in fractures but taking a

[50:14] medicine to avoid fractures that gives

[50:16] you fractures it doesn't sound like

[50:18] progress you know so I made a DVD with

[50:24] some friends I mean a very eminent group

[50:27] of camera people from Harvard and a

[50:29] director from Columbia who's a national

[50:32] she was at Sundance you know she's

[50:33] really good and a woman who was a second

[50:37] basically an understudy on Broadway gets

[50:40] apart but she she's a beautiful voice so

[50:44] we make 12 poses in three versions a

[50:46] baby baby version for people that have

[50:50] never done yoga or are very good at it

[50:52] an intermediate version which is a

[50:54] transition from the baby version to the

[50:56] classical pose and put it out in a DVD

[51:00] and I just I made a thousand copies I

[51:03] just gave

[51:04] the way I said I'm not gonna sell

[51:06] something that until I know it works you

[51:08] know I'm gonna do that so so I thought I

[51:10] was able to give it to people all over I

[51:12] mean I have patients in Tasmania

[51:15] you know Shanghai Serbia you know all

[51:17] over the place and all they had to do to

[51:20] be in this study was get some blood

[51:21] tests and a urine test to be sure there

[51:23] were no metabolic or nutritional or

[51:25] hormonal causes because I'm not an

[51:27] officer of yoga works for those I mean

[51:29] you can't have yoga instead of lunch so

[51:34] I did that and they had to promise me

[51:38] they would tell the truth huh want them

[51:43] flattering me and telling me they did

[51:45] the yoga when they didn't you know I

[51:47] said there's only one requirement here

[51:49] because I'm not there I'm not looking at

[51:51] them to be okay please be honest then we

[51:53] took about eight years before we had

[51:55] enough you know all all of them

[51:57] completed the at least two years of

[51:59] doing it and sent the results off to my

[52:01] statistician at Harvard so what was

[52:03] going on and the results were really

[52:05] very gratifying I mean these people

[52:08] gained more bone in their spine than

[52:11] they would have on the medicines well

[52:13] they gained more more bone in their

[52:15] femur than they would have gained on the

[52:17] medicines and the hip it's the hip was a

[52:20] little complex because turns out there

[52:22] were different ways of measuring what's

[52:24] called the total hip it's a compendium

[52:26] score it's not just one number it's some

[52:29] people take a B and C and add them up

[52:31] some people take a deed and Efrain

[52:33] addemup and there's a little variance so

[52:36] that one they clearly did better than

[52:39] they did before they did the yoga but

[52:42] you're statistically it was not

[52:43] significant for the hood for the hip

[52:45] okay but the spine and for the femur

[52:48] which are the two by far the two most

[52:50] serious kinds of fractures that people

[52:52] get with osteoporosis was really highly

[52:55] significant doesn't cost anything you

[52:58] know you just do the yoga you know way

[53:00] that even our president isn't figured

[53:02] out how to put a tax on yoga so what was

[53:07] the response like kind of before the

[53:11] study the research was published to this

[53:13] idea that yoga can help and cure

[53:16] versus after this research came out it's

[53:21] a very good question I mean before it

[53:22] came out I think many of the people that

[53:24] joined the study joined it not because

[53:27] they believed in yoga but because they

[53:29] were so upset

[53:30] and grossed out by the medicines in

[53:33] other words any port in a storm they

[53:35] really didn't want to take the medicines

[53:37] and they wanted to do something yeah we

[53:39] pinned their hopes on something that

[53:40] they weren't sure would work but that

[53:42] was better than the medicines and now

[53:45] after the study has come out the study

[53:46] and my judgment has made a pretty solid

[53:50] impact on the yoga community and not

[53:53] just the yoga community the Harvard

[53:55] health letter put it in the New York

[53:57] Times wrote an article about it but if

[54:00] he has not really transformed the

[54:04] medical community not so we're seeing

[54:08] movement in the general public in the

[54:10] yoga community but not yet in the

[54:11] medical establishment yeah so so I'm

[54:15] doing another study more or less on the

[54:17] model of draw of the drug companies

[54:20] where I do a dose-response

[54:23] well how much yoga are you doing how

[54:25] much bone are you building to see if

[54:27] these go together which will do go

[54:29] further towards establishing a causal

[54:31] chain relationship so that's what I'm

[54:35] doing now and I must tell you just I

[54:39] have to brag I can't help I saw a

[54:42] patient who just she's been doing this

[54:45] for one year and she's been a yoga

[54:48] teacher for 20 years and even so she had

[54:51] osteoporosis her yes it was her her her

[54:55] funeral was minus 2.5 on the scale which

[54:58] is just on the line of osteoporosis and

[55:01] one and her her spine was minus 1.2 not

[55:07] that bad but osteopenia and she came

[55:11] back with another deck so one year after

[55:13] starting it now her her spine went down

[55:18] an unbelievable full point oh she went

[55:23] from minus 1 point 2 to minus point 2

[55:27] well wonder I've never seen

[55:30] before and all the thousand people I've

[55:32] treated and her femur went down from two

[55:36] point five minus two point five two

[55:38] minus two so these are really impressive

[55:42] gains in one year therefore if the

[55:46] future is like the past in another year

[55:48] well she's already gone from

[55:49] osteoporosis osteopenia but in another

[55:52] year she'll basically be barely asked

[55:55] you peanut Myung will be positive it'll

[55:58] be plus two or something so so it's the

[56:04] new study what you have to do to be in

[56:06] the new study is same blogs and stuff

[56:09] but then you you have to find a yoga

[56:13] teacher who will watch you once every

[56:15] two weeks you will just observe you and

[56:19] we have an online database so people

[56:21] will put in their results every week or

[56:23] so there's five minutes to put on put

[56:26] the information up there's not a big

[56:28] deal but I've trained teachers we go

[56:31] around now and trained teachers as we're

[56:33] doing in North Carolina at the Art of

[56:36] Living we're going to train people to do

[56:38] exactly I'm about to describe to teach

[56:40] other people this yoga and it's not easy

[56:43] to learn I mean we have twenty hours

[56:45] online where you learn this sort of

[56:47] theoretical basis so you're comfortable

[56:49] with it and able to intelligently

[56:51] respond to people when they say but my

[56:54] cousin is taking this medicine and look

[56:55] what's happened to her

[56:56] and then we'll have intelligent ways of

[56:58] understanding what's really going on

[57:00] informed and logical and secondly

[57:05] they'll get a deeper understanding of

[57:07] why the yoga does what it does and

[57:10] there's a test for after the 20 hours

[57:14] online that's sort of the theoretical

[57:16] part then there are 20 hours on the

[57:18] ground 20 hours in the lab in the

[57:20] workshop which is what we're going to do

[57:22] it any oh L I call it AOL yeah you call

[57:26] it that too no yeah yeah okay

[57:28] well and there we also give a test at

[57:31] the end we ask them to teach each other

[57:33] and we just them because the the

[57:37] critical function of a teacher is first

[57:39] to inspire people to do it secondly to

[57:42] correct them so their alignment is good

[57:44] and third to progress them from the

[57:47] beginning poses so they can safely do

[57:50] the intermediate and safely go on from

[57:52] there to the classical poses and those

[57:56] are skills that I think maybe some

[57:58] people come by them naturally but they

[58:00] can be taught to and for you know people

[58:04] who are online listening and may be

[58:06] interested in this training and

[58:08] certification there will be a link to

[58:11] the training in the chat box as well as

[58:13] the comments also if you have questions

[58:17] you know feel free to put those in and

[58:19] this is a very kind of live interactive

[58:22] session we do have one question already

[58:25] what does yoga do to the disintegrating

[58:28] cartilage and how and how well first

[58:32] osteoporosis ask your opinion are not

[58:34] cartilage disintegration they're bone

[58:37] and it's not really disintegration it's

[58:40] that there are cells they're called

[58:41] osteo sites osteoblasts which make bone

[58:45] and then there are cells called

[58:48] osteoclasts that eat up the bone return

[58:51] the protein to the systemic circulation

[58:53] so there's a given a take your or cells

[58:56] laying down bone here or cells eating up

[58:58] bone and what most of the medicines do

[59:01] just to give you some perspective is

[59:03] they the laying down of bone goes on

[59:06] unaffected but they disable and reduce

[59:09] the number of the cells that eat up bone

[59:13] so now in order to understand what yoga

[59:17] does you have to understand Wolf's law

[59:20] this is a 19th century german named

[59:23] julius wolf was an anatomist and a

[59:26] surgeon and he disguise formulated that

[59:30] the the lines of force put upon a bone

[59:36] determine the laying down of bone he

[59:40] said it like this the architectonic of

[59:41] bone is determined by the lines of force

[59:44] to which that bone is subjective and i

[59:47] mean it's an interesting story

[59:49] it wasn't he it was another man in in

[59:52] colon and cologne in northern germany

[59:54] with making a crane

[59:56] they're an engineer he wandered into a

[59:58] Natural History Museum and he saw the

[1:00:01] bones of a vultures wing and he grasped

[1:00:05] us for it and he said mine got the the

[1:00:08] bones of the vultures wing or exactly

[1:00:12] what he was doing with the head of the

[1:00:13] crane no you know isn't God wonderful

[1:00:16] isn't what how miraculous and he

[1:00:18] published a little paper and that's when

[1:00:19] Julius Wolfe figured picked it up and he

[1:00:21] said I see this all the time and that's

[1:00:24] when you formulated Wolf's law and

[1:00:26] published it now what is will slalom

[1:00:29] most law states that if you put pressure

[1:00:31] on a bone it's going to build up more

[1:00:34] bone exactly where you put the pressure

[1:00:35] so it takes the head of the femur for a

[1:00:38] moment there when you're born your femur

[1:00:41] is dead straight little thick the little

[1:00:44] arrow but by the time you're five years

[1:00:47] old it's bent like this because every

[1:00:48] time you take a step you cantilever off

[1:00:51] of that hip and the pressure is all in

[1:00:54] here so it builds up bone here and the

[1:00:56] bone over here gets no use at all so

[1:00:58] little by little it bends like that now

[1:01:01] that's not genetic because little

[1:01:03] children who unfortunately cannot ever

[1:01:06] walk you know children with spina bifida

[1:01:08] and cerebral palsy and stuff their bones

[1:01:11] stay straight as an arrow even when

[1:01:13] they're five or ten or 20 so with what's

[1:01:17] genetic is the propensity the ability to

[1:01:20] respond to the pressure that's built

[1:01:22] into all of us and let me tell you yoga

[1:01:26] puts more pressure on the bones than

[1:01:28] gravity huh that's I mean you would you

[1:01:31] like me to prove to you that yoga that

[1:01:33] your muscles are stronger than gravity

[1:01:35] I'm sure you would so here I go you

[1:01:37] ready yes steady yes

[1:01:40] here I go move on this small but

[1:01:51] interesting planet you know if you

[1:01:55] couldn't move the muscles be doing so

[1:01:59] yoga very often for example in soup to

[1:02:02] pardon gusta sauna and in many poses is

[1:02:06] opposing one group of muscles with

[1:02:08] another

[1:02:09] so not only do you get many times the

[1:02:11] force of gravity you get many times the

[1:02:13] force of gravity multiplied times two

[1:02:15] because there are those pulling this way

[1:02:17] and those pulling this way and the bone

[1:02:19] is in the middle and that is my best

[1:02:22] explanation for how yoga does it now if

[1:02:26] you really are interested in cartilage

[1:02:28] I believe Yoga does do fabulous things

[1:02:30] for cartilage too

[1:02:32] I don't know if you want me to explain

[1:02:34] this or not I I certainly am happy to do

[1:02:37] it

[1:02:37] but it might be off the point I could

[1:02:41] say a little bit so in in off since on

[1:02:47] osteoarthritis don't we lose cartilage

[1:02:49] and how did you'll get up with that

[1:02:51] that's the follow-up on osteoarthritis

[1:02:54] of course that's not osteoporosis ok

[1:02:56] Rytas is the joint

[1:02:59] let's join to this bone the joint of

[1:03:01] this phone osteoporosis is the middle

[1:03:04] yeah so that they're different the apply

[1:03:06] to different places but Yoga does help

[1:03:09] with osteoarthritis too and it does it

[1:03:12] in a variety of ways one ways I wish I

[1:03:15] could give you a picture of a good old

[1:03:17] joint um I just I'm gonna stand up maybe

[1:03:20] I can do that here the knee take the

[1:03:23] knee yes big bone here a little bone

[1:03:26] right there and then a large bone going

[1:03:28] all the way down yeah inside this joint

[1:03:31] is fluid and that fluid is critical to

[1:03:35] the joints proper functioning mmm

[1:03:37] because the the cartilage that line is

[1:03:41] that joint needs oxygen glucose protein

[1:03:46] hormones and it also needs to get rid of

[1:03:49] the products of metabolism lactic acid

[1:03:52] and so on which are quite toxic so there

[1:03:55] are no blood vessels in these joints it

[1:03:58] would be terrible to have blood vessels

[1:03:59] in your knee cuz every time you took a

[1:04:01] step and they wouldn't last so the knee

[1:04:06] as a joint as a as a capsule that holds

[1:04:08] all the fluid in there and the walls of

[1:04:11] that capsule are filled with little

[1:04:13] blood vessels called synovium and they

[1:04:17] secrete the synovial fluid which floats

[1:04:20] around in there

[1:04:20] now what did yoga do

[1:04:23] Yoga makes sure through its eccentric

[1:04:25] and extreme motions make sure that that

[1:04:28] that fluid gets circulated to the very

[1:04:30] edges to the very tips and corners of

[1:04:32] the joint and it's those tips and

[1:04:34] corners that usually initiate

[1:04:36] osteoarthritis huh first secondly Yoga

[1:04:41] this is a little more advanced than you

[1:04:43] wanted to know you don't want to know

[1:04:44] what this is I'm gonna tell you anyway

[1:04:46] Yoga this stimulates the release of a

[1:04:51] chemical from our bone from our muscles

[1:04:53] called P G c1 alpha it's a really catchy

[1:04:58] name I know P G c1 alpha P G C 1 alpha

[1:05:02] happens to be first a very potent

[1:05:05] anti-inflammatory and it does reduce the

[1:05:08] incidence of all kinds of cancers

[1:05:09] gastrointestinal cancers genital cancers

[1:05:12] you know uterus breast prostate and and

[1:05:16] melanoma it really does reduce the

[1:05:18] incidence of those but also it's the

[1:05:21] strongest known stimulant for

[1:05:24] mitochondria mitochondria are those

[1:05:27] little tiny vesicles inside every cell

[1:05:30] every every animal cell I think there

[1:05:33] are one or two crazy exceptions and

[1:05:35] they're the power stations there would

[1:05:38] translate your food into energy you know

[1:05:42] that's where the Krebs cycle goes on

[1:05:44] it's where ATP is generated you know

[1:05:47] it's where the cell gets its its energy

[1:05:51] and as I say yoga stimulates release of

[1:05:56] a chemical which stimulates the

[1:05:58] mitochondria these strongest Emma's in

[1:06:02] increasing the number of mitochondria

[1:06:04] and their activity and when it comes to

[1:06:08] joints and cartilage well the more and

[1:06:12] the more mitochondria you have the

[1:06:13] better they those cells are the stronger

[1:06:15] they are the more resistant to disease

[1:06:18] infection and damage well I mean there

[1:06:24] are other ways to but I think those are

[1:06:25] two big ones sure and to step back for a

[1:06:29] second what has been for you the most

[1:06:31] fascinating discovery in this whole

[1:06:33] journey

[1:06:37] it's not very much for publication but

[1:06:39] the very the most interesting thing for

[1:06:42] me has been me I've learnt so much about

[1:06:45] myself well I don't think I can

[1:06:48] I mean learning about osteoporosis has

[1:06:51] been wonderful we have some other cures

[1:06:52] for us for osteoarthritis for scoliosis

[1:06:56] that was pretty interesting we found a

[1:06:58] way to actually reverse scoliosis and we

[1:07:01] found a way to reduce the pain and

[1:07:03] increase the range of motion after

[1:07:05] rotator cuff I mean this arm of mine

[1:07:08] over here I had I won't tell you the

[1:07:11] whole story but I had a terrible rotator

[1:07:13] cuff and I could not raise my arm above

[1:07:15] here to save my soul but I stood on my

[1:07:19] head one day I made appointments with

[1:07:21] the two greatest surgeons in New York

[1:07:23] for the shoulder and wait a month to see

[1:07:26] him instead of being a doctor myself and

[1:07:28] one day I just missed yoga so much I

[1:07:29] stood on my head

[1:07:30] the Iyengar way where you pull your

[1:07:32] shoulders away from your ears

[1:07:33] like my wife came downstairs she's in

[1:07:36] Lauren and I got up and ready to be

[1:07:40] sheepish but I realized I could raise my

[1:07:42] arm well I kept the two appointments

[1:07:46] with the doctors and I they ask me

[1:07:49] question after where they looked at my

[1:07:51] MRI which is a massive tear I mean it's

[1:07:53] the worst kind of tear you can get you

[1:07:55] know the two parts of the muscle are

[1:07:56] rent asunder about four centimeters and

[1:07:59] then then grasp their foreheads and they

[1:08:01] said well what about this what about

[1:08:03] that finally they got around to the

[1:08:04] question well dr. Fishman what can you

[1:08:06] do I said well I can raise my arm like

[1:08:08] this I can raise my arm like this and

[1:08:10] they the room was totally silent and in

[1:08:12] each case these two doctors in different

[1:08:14] parts of the city they said you don't

[1:08:16] need surgery you're doing better than

[1:08:18] you will do after surgery whoa that

[1:08:21] really threw down the gauntlet to me and

[1:08:23] I hit written articles about I published

[1:08:25] I have about 1,500 patients with it now

[1:08:28] that I've cured about 90% of money I've

[1:08:31] got I just got a grant from the NIH to

[1:08:34] do a very interesting study in my

[1:08:36] opinion on to generate an objective

[1:08:39] scale for pain based on the fact that

[1:08:43] when they raise their arm the first time

[1:08:45] oh it hurts so much and when they raise

[1:08:47] arm after learning this maneuver the

[1:08:50] so here I am by the way at least 20

[1:08:52] years later

[1:08:53] no probs now on this side I had surgery

[1:08:56] I didn't I had enough discovered this

[1:08:57] yet

[1:08:58] so I'd surgery this one's good too it

[1:09:00] hurts a little yes well it's good

[1:09:03] Wow and when you said you learned about

[1:09:06] yourself was it this kind of learning

[1:09:08] discovery on the physical level or also

[1:09:10] on me well it is on the physical level

[1:09:12] too and there's no question about it but

[1:09:14] no I'm talking about on the intellectual

[1:09:17] or emotional or spiritual if you will

[1:09:20] level where I learned I think the main

[1:09:24] thing that you get with meditation at

[1:09:26] least that I guess is that you feel safe

[1:09:29] enough to confront yourself you feel

[1:09:33] safe enough to ask yourself the

[1:09:35] questions you've been assiduously

[1:09:37] avoided why did I do this why do I look

[1:09:42] down on him for doing that when I do it

[1:09:44] too so that that's where I think Yoga

[1:09:50] has has brought me further than any then

[1:09:53] I would have gotten otherwise and it was

[1:09:56] this a byproduct of the practice or also

[1:09:58] kind of a part of it for yourself

[1:10:00] oh it's part of it I mean I I cannot

[1:10:06] convince myself that I don't have much

[1:10:08] further to go but I have learned

[1:10:11] something and the things I've learned

[1:10:14] fill me with humility you know and and

[1:10:18] with joy you made a very interesting

[1:10:22] comment a bit earlier that you you think

[1:10:26] you have forgot how yoga does help heal

[1:10:30] and I know we touched on a couple of

[1:10:33] points related with osteoporosis

[1:10:35] osteoarthritis what else do you have to

[1:10:39] say there about how yoga does it well

[1:10:42] there are all kinds of different

[1:10:43] mechanisms you have to realize I'm a

[1:10:44] doctor certain have a kind of faith in

[1:10:48] basically material proofs

[1:10:51] ya know yoga may work in other ways too

[1:10:54] that I just I'm aware of or I'm not

[1:10:55] aware of but I can't prove anything

[1:10:57] it's for me it's always it's always a

[1:11:00] question of finding some solid rely

[1:11:03] a way of showing a difference between

[1:11:05] before and after and back pain is maybe

[1:11:09] a really good example there are to me

[1:11:12] there are seven different forms of back

[1:11:14] pain there's a herniated disc there's

[1:11:17] spinal stenosis there are there are

[1:11:19] seven basic types of back pain and yoga

[1:11:22] works for all seven of them but not the

[1:11:24] same way what's good for a herniated

[1:11:27] disc is bad for stenosis and what's good

[1:11:30] for stenosis is bad for a herniated disc

[1:11:32] so it's not as though there's one thing

[1:11:34] this you know the way you say what does

[1:11:35] penicillin do kills germs yoga's not

[1:11:40] that way and if people are interested in

[1:11:44] you know learning more or finding a way

[1:11:47] to approach their herniated disc or back

[1:11:50] pain through yoga where would you

[1:11:52] recommend people go well this is a paid

[1:11:55] political announcement my book okay I've

[1:11:58] written about ten books on various

[1:12:00] subjects and about five of them on yoga

[1:12:02] and I just it's not so new anymore it's

[1:12:05] probably two years old called healing

[1:12:07] Yoga Norton publishes most of my books

[1:12:11] and they and it's got whole chapters on

[1:12:14] all seven of the kinds of back pain flow

[1:12:18] and sometimes combinations where you

[1:12:20] know they have a piriformis syndrome and

[1:12:23] sacral iliac joint arrangement what do

[1:12:25] you do then so it doesn't cover every

[1:12:27] such combination but some of them so I

[1:12:30] recommend my book I got another book

[1:12:32] called sciatica which ought to be

[1:12:34] helpful in the same way and for

[1:12:37] osteoarthritis we have a book I wrote

[1:12:39] with Ellen Saltonstall called Yoga for

[1:12:42] osteoporosis arthritis Yoga for

[1:12:45] arthritis and it also sounds like you

[1:12:49] had this kind of developing body of

[1:12:52] certified teachers who are also helping

[1:12:54] people with instruction in this oh yeah

[1:12:57] we we now I go around the country and I

[1:13:00] teach I mean we've taught in San

[1:13:01] Francisco and certainly taught in North

[1:13:04] Carolina and other Chicago in places we

[1:13:07] now have teachers in 37 states beautiful

[1:13:11] about six countries you know sweet know

[1:13:14] Norway Switzerland is

[1:13:18] Singapore and Canada and maybe one other

[1:13:21] one somewhere so in other countries and

[1:13:25] oh oh Australia a couple in Australia

[1:13:27] already and if you want to be in the

[1:13:30] study you have to see a yoga teacher

[1:13:32] every two weeks and if there is there's

[1:13:34] one near you

[1:13:35] great but if there isn't one near you we

[1:13:37] will Skype with you you know you really

[1:13:41] can Skype this material you watch them

[1:13:44] you give them pointers you estimate how

[1:13:47] hard they're trying I mean there really

[1:13:49] are two basic principles one is the

[1:13:52] wonderful alignment that mr. Iyengar

[1:13:54] understood so accurately and secondly

[1:13:58] trying hard and because the alignment is

[1:14:01] so important and can be understood and

[1:14:04] followed so well you can try hard

[1:14:06] without hurting yourself hmm no if you

[1:14:09] were off like this doing a yoga pose and

[1:14:11] you tried really hard you could hurt

[1:14:12] yourself but if you stay straight and in

[1:14:15] all the ways that it's important to do

[1:14:17] so you can try really hard put an awful

[1:14:20] lot of pressure on your bones but hurt

[1:14:22] nothing so before we wind up I was

[1:14:28] wondering if we could take one of these

[1:14:30] you know these questions that you you

[1:14:32] mentioned that you kind of found the the

[1:14:36] confidence to ask yourself those

[1:14:38] questions that we assiduously avoid

[1:14:41] maybe you could share a question for the

[1:14:44] group to reflect on and to be with well

[1:14:48] yeah I mean it's easy I can think of I

[1:14:51] my questions may not be the same as the

[1:14:53] next person's questions but one of my

[1:14:55] questions was why are you so eager to

[1:14:58] prove that you are better than the next

[1:15:00] person that was one before I just

[1:15:05] focused on proving I was better which of

[1:15:09] course is pretty impossible but I could

[1:15:11] convince myself and maybe convince

[1:15:14] somebody else oh and that really proves

[1:15:15] it doesn't and another one is what is it

[1:15:21] about him that you don't like and that

[1:15:26] one I think we all feel that sometimes

[1:15:28] then what I found to be the overwhelming

[1:15:30] answer not every River every time but

[1:15:33] very much more than half the time

[1:15:35] because it's something about myself that

[1:15:37] I don't like and I really don't want to

[1:15:41] see in somebody else I mean that's

[1:15:42] really offensive and then you want to

[1:15:47] say yourself well why don't I like that

[1:15:49] about me what's wrong with that and

[1:15:52] these are things that you Jim at least I

[1:15:56] generally hide these things from myself

[1:15:58] my selfishness my insecurity desire to

[1:16:03] one-up other people you know why is it

[1:16:07] so important to me hmm

[1:16:09] you know which it has been in my life

[1:16:11] you know so much I I consider you know

[1:16:14] when I look back at my life years ago I

[1:16:16] would say what are my real triumphs well

[1:16:18] I did better than he did I get better

[1:16:20] than she did you know it was he's always

[1:16:23] a question is better than not good did

[1:16:26] you do any good well and to come to that

[1:16:30] it's it's easy to say it but to actually

[1:16:32] go through the the analysis you have to

[1:16:35] go through to understand what the

[1:16:37] difference is not so easy well so those

[1:16:42] are some of the things I was able to to

[1:16:44] recognize and there are many more I mean

[1:16:47] I I'm sure I have as many more or more

[1:16:49] more than that that I hadn't recognized

[1:16:51] yet but coming to that realization gives

[1:16:54] you great curiosity about yourself hmm

[1:16:57] I mean my great teacher mr. Iyengar you

[1:16:59] said the greatest adventure in a man's

[1:17:02] life and I assume he means a woman's

[1:17:04] life too is getting to know yourself you

[1:17:10] know we're really complex little

[1:17:12] cesspools and we can clear it all up but

[1:17:17] it's it's hard and it's a dirty you have

[1:17:22] to have that sort of confidence and high

[1:17:25] spirit to plumb the depths and come up

[1:17:29] clean well thank you so much for sharing

[1:17:35] with us tonight and sharing a research

[1:17:38] your spirit your insights over the years

[1:17:40] and pleasure

[1:17:43] okay I really have enjoyed it a lot so I

[1:17:46] hope we I hope you get together again

[1:17:49] and I guess are you down there will I

[1:17:51] see you in in May beginning of June most

[1:17:54] certainly I am I'm here and we will see

[1:17:57] you uh up in the mountains again okay

[1:18:02] pleasure my pleasure thank you dr.

[1:18:04] Lauren and uh hope any of our viewers

[1:18:06] also on you know if you're interested in

[1:18:08] a certification you'd like to learn more

[1:18:10] please do click on that link and you

[1:18:13] know consider joining us this summer and

[1:18:15] we would love to see more more people

[1:18:17] out there and kind of spreading this

[1:18:19] wonderful healing message it seems a so

[1:18:22] valuable thank you good night good night

[1:18:30] welcome dr. Lauren Fishman's who are our

[1:18:33] live webinar tonight and welcome to all

[1:18:35] our guests joining us from around the

[1:18:38] country I know we have some people from

[1:18:40] other parts of the world that join in

[1:18:42] too so welcome dr. Lauren well thank you

[1:18:47] how are you doing tonight I am doing

[1:18:50] cool everything okay

[1:18:55] so for those of us joining us perhaps

[1:18:57] for the first time we do this weekly

[1:19:00] live webinar with a lot of really great

[1:19:03] teachers speakers authors many of whom

[1:19:07] are coming through the retreat center in

[1:19:09] Boone North Carolina and leading

[1:19:11] workshops dr. Lauren himself is leading

[1:19:14] a workshop on yogin osteoporosis this

[1:19:17] summer which we're very much looking

[1:19:20] forward and we can talk about some of

[1:19:23] these topics but also just insights and

[1:19:26] thoughts to help us thrive in the week

[1:19:28] ahead that's the the overview so welcome

[1:19:31] everyone and welcome dr. Lauren well

[1:19:33] thank you so how are you doing I just

[1:19:39] going over they're also doing well glad

[1:19:42] the the weather is picking up a little

[1:19:45] you know Nick the Heat's getting better

[1:19:47] which is nice it's been a little cold

[1:19:50] not too bad not too bad nothing like the

[1:19:54] Northeast I've heard

[1:19:55] it's terrible up here now it's spring

[1:19:59] spring is really hit in North Carolina

[1:20:01] that's one very glad to hear it up here

[1:20:04] it's like it's like Afghanistan really

[1:20:07] where the Sun is warm but the air is

[1:20:10] very cool that's what it feels like in

[1:20:13] the high plateau where most of

[1:20:15] Afghanistan finds itself and you've

[1:20:17] traveled a lot both in your your

[1:20:20] teaching as well as in your studies is

[1:20:22] that true yes that's right yeah and I

[1:20:25] think you mentioned you studied in

[1:20:27] England and then you also study in India

[1:20:30] or you're teaching in India well I

[1:20:32] studied in England I was at Oxford I got

[1:20:34] an advanced degree in foundations of

[1:20:37] mathematics and then I went to India

[1:20:39] because it seemed to me that the read to

[1:20:43] look for the foundations of mathematics

[1:20:45] you know where does mathematics come

[1:20:47] from the best I could do was to think of

[1:20:50] grammar like a long reach for you and

[1:20:54] maybe it is with the idea being that no

[1:20:56] one does Matthew doesn't have language

[1:20:59] and that language has rules for

[1:21:01] construction of proper sentences and how

[1:21:04] the parts of speech and so on and that's

[1:21:06] just like mathematics hmm very good

[1:21:10] place to look for it and the first

[1:21:12] grammarian also the first yogi by the

[1:21:14] way and a physician was named Patanjali

[1:21:17] and so I went there I wasn't there very

[1:21:20] long before I realized that the average

[1:21:22] three-year-old was a new better Sanskrit

[1:21:25] or at least the language close to

[1:21:27] Sanskrit then then I would ever know

[1:21:30] little quest to try to become so expert

[1:21:33] in Sanskrit so I didn't instead I just

[1:21:36] devoted my time to looking for liberated

[1:21:39] people well plenty of those and what was

[1:21:42] the result of that quest well my my

[1:21:47] friend at the time said to me one day I

[1:21:50] fell in mr. Iyengar's book someone in

[1:21:54] Bombay an Englishman in the Bombay gave

[1:21:57] me this book and said you know you got

[1:21:59] to look at this and I took a look at it

[1:22:01] and I realized it was better yoga than

[1:22:03] I'd ever seen I by a long way and so I

[1:22:06] resolved to do every pose in the book

[1:22:08] which I could do which was

[1:22:09] that many poses at the time but I did

[1:22:11] the best I could

[1:22:12] twice a day every morning and every

[1:22:14] evening and then my friend looked at

[1:22:17] look at where he was and she said hey

[1:22:20] you know he's only a couple of hundred

[1:22:21] miles away why don't I go visit him and

[1:22:23] so he left on a train and we went and

[1:22:26] knocked on his door and he I had a wait

[1:22:29] a week he was in England or somewhere I

[1:22:31] had a tickle hotel a couple blocks away

[1:22:34] and when I finally came back when he was

[1:22:36] there I knocked on the door he opened it

[1:22:38] you could tell it was he was sleeping

[1:22:40] it's sort of a Indian Ocean siesta and

[1:22:46] he said what do you want I said I want

[1:22:49] to learn your yoga he said why do you

[1:22:51] want to learn my yoga I said because I

[1:22:53] want to heal and you challenged me again

[1:22:55] he said why'd you want to heal looked at

[1:22:58] me like that and I said yes I want to

[1:23:00] heal he said that's my great thing come

[1:23:02] on in so I stayed I kept the room in the

[1:23:06] hotel for a year

[1:23:08] stayed and I learned so many much he was

[1:23:11] highly intelligent and and very generous

[1:23:16] with his time his knowledge and I want

[1:23:19] to say with his care and he cared for

[1:23:21] his sizeable flock so there were many

[1:23:26] other students around at that time well

[1:23:28] there were still people who lived in

[1:23:30] Bombay and in Pune where he was who

[1:23:32] would gather together on the weekends he

[1:23:35] would go to Bombay and he would teach in

[1:23:36] this church or he would have maybe 50 or

[1:23:39] 60 people and in those days in India men

[1:23:44] and women couldn't be in the same yoga

[1:23:46] class if they were Hindu so most

[1:23:49] anticipation most of his or Jane or they

[1:23:53] were RC yeah they were they were sort of

[1:23:57] like the the not outcasts by any means

[1:24:00] but not in the centre of society a

[1:24:02] little bit removed the you know the the

[1:24:05] parties are Zoroastrians yeah they came

[1:24:08] from Iran and then one or another

[1:24:10] migration and these people were

[1:24:13] forward-looking and a little bit willing

[1:24:15] to take risks a little bit and his

[1:24:18] classes were three hours long and very

[1:24:20] intense

[1:24:22] and he would talk 1:00 on Saturday and

[1:24:24] 1:00 on Sunday then we'd go back to

[1:24:26] Bombay back to Pune and spend the week

[1:24:28] there had classes just about every day

[1:24:32] so that was that was his he didn't have

[1:24:35] that many foreign students when I was

[1:24:38] there he had maybe 10 five or six you

[1:24:41] know it buried

[1:24:43] there were everything from Jesuit

[1:24:45] priests to dancers from South Africa you

[1:24:49] know he said I want to heal and he said

[1:24:54] that's my specialty come on in and then

[1:24:57] you know from there you've gone on and

[1:24:59] written a book on yoga for osteoporosis

[1:25:01] and you know pioneered some of the

[1:25:03] research what was that transition like

[1:25:06] how did that come about well I was in

[1:25:10] India and I realized that I I realize

[1:25:12] yoga worked yoga did things on my

[1:25:16] curiosity and whetted my curiosity I

[1:25:18] know how does yoga work and they have

[1:25:22] combined with the misery you see in

[1:25:24] India made me resolve to be a doctor so

[1:25:27] I went to medical school but the other

[1:25:29] reason I went to medical school was to

[1:25:31] learn how yoga worked and I actually

[1:25:33] believe I have found some of the ways

[1:25:36] yoga works and when you see their works

[1:25:38] like what did you notice what did you

[1:25:40] observe my first experience was actually

[1:25:44] in Bombay with drug addicts who would

[1:25:47] come to me for some reason or other they

[1:25:48] regarded me as a doctor like person and

[1:25:51] they would come to me and say you got to

[1:25:53] help me I'm addicted and I found giving

[1:25:56] them not many five or six yoga poses

[1:25:58] which they did with great religiosity

[1:26:01] you know then with great hope in their

[1:26:03] hearts because they didn't want to be

[1:26:04] taking these drugs I found that it

[1:26:06] actually brought them off of taking

[1:26:09] morphine and cocaine and other kinds of

[1:26:12] drugs so that was one thing then I

[1:26:16] noticed many other you know just

[1:26:19] incidental things for shoulder pain for

[1:26:21] neck pain indigestion there are a number

[1:26:25] of ways that yoga really does seem to do

[1:26:27] the job wasn't very long after I taught

[1:26:31] yoga in medical school Oh a couple of

[1:26:34] doctors and some fellow

[1:26:35] local students and some nurses but then

[1:26:38] after I started in private practice I

[1:26:40] was an on the staff at Albert Einstein I

[1:26:45] I actually began using yoga to cure

[1:26:49] people so in a way it was the opposite I

[1:26:52] went learning how yoga works I ended up

[1:26:54] using yoga because it works I think the

[1:26:58] thing that I've done that is not special

[1:27:00] anymore but I think I was one of the

[1:27:02] first to do this was to employ medical

[1:27:06] science to prove and to understand how

[1:27:10] yoga works and that's the osteoporosis I

[1:27:13] mean there is a very good test to

[1:27:16] determine whether your bone mineral

[1:27:17] density is high or low and you know to

[1:27:20] to numerically quantify it that's called

[1:27:23] the DEXA scan the dual x-ray

[1:27:27] absorptiometry okay what a word and I

[1:27:33] had the image that yoga must work for to

[1:27:38] build your bones or the Yogi's wouldn't

[1:27:40] be getting so old so healthily and so I

[1:27:46] had confidence in it but many of my

[1:27:50] friends said don't teach yoga to people

[1:27:53] with osteoporosis you're gonna break

[1:27:54] their bones you're doing two years and I

[1:27:59] I did a pilot study I invited people to

[1:28:02] come to my office after work like 5:30

[1:28:05] to 6:30 once a week for two years and I

[1:28:08] divided these people into two groups one

[1:28:10] group at the yoga one group didn't get

[1:28:13] the yoga in both groups I got these DEXA

[1:28:16] scans to find out how they were doing

[1:28:17] when they started well then two years

[1:28:19] later I got an another Dex of skin on

[1:28:21] both groups and the ones who didn't do

[1:28:24] the yoga they lost a little bone not

[1:28:26] very much you know 0.05 you know not

[1:28:29] nothing much yeah once you did the

[1:28:31] yogurt they really gained a lot of bone

[1:28:33] really Wow now further there were no

[1:28:37] injuries nobody broke their bones nobody

[1:28:40] had a herniated disk nobody fell and

[1:28:42] injured themselves there were no

[1:28:44] injuries of any kind so I would heart

[1:28:47] and I tell you the truth I got fire in

[1:28:50] my belly I got really interested because

[1:28:52] over 200 million people in this world

[1:28:54] have osteoporosis and medicines are

[1:28:57] really formidable not for Madhab not

[1:29:01] great

[1:29:01] they're terrible work that well and in

[1:29:05] the most popular class of these

[1:29:07] medicines the bisphosphonates

[1:29:09] and a new cement Pro Prolia is another

[1:29:13] example they actually produce fractures

[1:29:16] they heal a they prevent some fractures

[1:29:19] but they caused some others I mean the

[1:29:22] overall overall there's a net gain in

[1:29:24] bone health a net decrease in fractures

[1:29:27] but taking a medicine to avoid fractures

[1:29:30] that gives you fractures it doesn't

[1:29:32] sound like progress you know so I made a

[1:29:38] DVD with some friends I mean a very

[1:29:40] eminent group of camera people from

[1:29:42] Harvard and a director from Columbia

[1:29:45] who's a national she was at Sundance you

[1:29:47] know she's really good and a woman who

[1:29:50] was a second basically an understudy on

[1:29:53] Broadway gets a part but she she's a

[1:29:56] beautiful voice so we make 12 poses in

[1:30:00] three versions a baby baby version for

[1:30:03] people that have never done yoga or are

[1:30:06] very good at it an intermediate version

[1:30:08] which is a transition from the baby

[1:30:10] version to the classical pose and put it

[1:30:14] out in a DVD and I just I made a

[1:30:16] thousand copies I just gave them away I

[1:30:19] said I'm not gonna sell something that

[1:30:21] until I know it works you know I'm going

[1:30:23] to do that so so I thought I was able to

[1:30:26] give it to people all over I mean I have

[1:30:27] patients in Tasmania

[1:30:29] you know Shanghai Serbia you know all

[1:30:32] over the place and all they had to do to

[1:30:34] be in this study was get some blood

[1:30:35] tests and a urine test to be sure there

[1:30:38] were no metabolic or nutritional or

[1:30:40] hormonal causes because I'm not an

[1:30:41] officer of yoga works for those I mean

[1:30:44] you can't have yoga instead of lunch so

[1:30:48] I did that and they had to promise me

[1:30:52] and would tell the truth huh want them

[1:30:57] flattering me and telling me they did

[1:30:59] the yoga when they

[1:31:00] you know I said there's only one

[1:31:02] requirement here because I'm not there

[1:31:04] I'm not looking at them to be okay

[1:31:06] please be honest then we took about

[1:31:08] eight years before we had enough you

[1:31:10] know all all of them completed the at

[1:31:12] least two years of doing it and sent the

[1:31:15] results off to my statistician Harvard

[1:31:17] so it was going on and the results were

[1:31:19] really very gratifying I mean these

[1:31:22] people gained more bone in their spine

[1:31:24] than they would have on the medicines

[1:31:26] well they gained more more bone in their

[1:31:29] femur than they would have gained on the

[1:31:31] medicines and the hip it's the hip was a

[1:31:34] little complex because turns out there

[1:31:36] were different ways of measuring what's

[1:31:38] called the total hip it's a compendium

[1:31:40] score it's not just one number it's some

[1:31:43] people take a B and C and add them up

[1:31:45] some people take a deed or an animal and

[1:31:48] there's a little variance so that one

[1:31:51] they clearly did better than they did

[1:31:54] before they did the yoga but you're

[1:31:56] statistically it was not significant for

[1:31:58] the hood for the hip okay but the spine

[1:32:01] and for the femur which other two by far

[1:32:03] the two most serious kinds of fractures

[1:32:06] that people get with osteoporosis was

[1:32:08] really highly significant doesn't cost

[1:32:12] anything you know you just do the yoga

[1:32:13] yeah no way that even our president

[1:32:15] isn't figured out how to put a tax on

[1:32:17] yoga so what was the response like kind

[1:32:23] of before the study the research was

[1:32:26] published to this idea that yoga can

[1:32:29] help and cure versus after this research

[1:32:32] came out it's a very good question I

[1:32:36] mean before it came out I think many of

[1:32:38] the people that joined the study joined

[1:32:40] it not because they believed in yoga but

[1:32:43] because they were so upset and grossed

[1:32:46] out by the medicines in other words any

[1:32:48] port in a storm they really didn't want

[1:32:50] to take the medicines and they wanted to

[1:32:52] do something yeah we pinned their hopes

[1:32:54] on something that they weren't sure

[1:32:55] would work but that was better than the

[1:32:57] medicines and now after the study has

[1:33:00] come out the study and my judgment has

[1:33:03] made a pretty solid impact on the yoga

[1:33:06] community and not just the yoga

[1:33:08] community the Harvard health letter put

[1:33:10] it in the New York Times wrote an

[1:33:12] article

[1:33:14] but if he has not really transformed the

[1:33:19] medical community not so we're seeing

[1:33:22] movement in the general public in the

[1:33:24] yoga community but not yet in the

[1:33:25] medical establishment yeah so so I'm

[1:33:30] doing another study more or less on the

[1:33:32] model of draw of the drug companies

[1:33:34] where I do a dose response

[1:33:37] well how much yoga are you doing how

[1:33:39] much bone are you building to see if

[1:33:41] these go together which will do go

[1:33:43] further towards establishing a causal

[1:33:46] chain relationship so that's what I'm

[1:33:50] doing now and I must tell you just I

[1:33:53] have to brag I can't help I saw a

[1:33:56] patient who just she's been doing this

[1:33:59] for one year yes and she's been a yoga

[1:34:03] teacher for 20 years and even so she had

[1:34:05] osteoporosis her yes it was her her her

[1:34:10] funeral was minus 2.5 on the scale which

[1:34:12] is just on the line of osteoporosis and

[1:34:15] 1 and her her spine was minus 1.2 not

[1:34:21] that bad but osteopenia and she came

[1:34:25] back with another DEXA one year after

[1:34:28] starting it now her her spine went down

[1:34:32] an unbelievable full point oh she went

[1:34:38] from minus 1 point 2 to minus point two

[1:34:41] well I wonder I've never seen that

[1:34:44] before and all the thousand people I've

[1:34:46] treated and her femur went down from 2

[1:34:50] point 5 minus 2 point 5 to minus 2 so

[1:34:54] these are really impressive gains in 1

[1:34:57] year therefore if the future is like the

[1:35:01] past in another year well she's already

[1:35:03] gone from osteoporosis osteopenia but in

[1:35:06] another year she'll basically be barely

[1:35:09] asked you peanut

[1:35:10] buying will be positive it will be plus

[1:35:13] 2.8 or something so so it's the new

[1:35:18] study what you have to do to be in the

[1:35:20] new study is same blogs and stuff but

[1:35:24] then you you have to

[1:35:26] find a yoga teacher who will watch you

[1:35:29] once every two weeks

[1:35:31] you will just observe you and we have an

[1:35:33] online database so people will put in

[1:35:36] their results every week or so so five

[1:35:39] minutes to put on put the information

[1:35:41] there's not a big deal but I've trained

[1:35:44] teachers we go around now and train

[1:35:46] teachers as we're doing in North

[1:35:48] Carolina at the Art of Living we're

[1:35:50] going to train people to do exactly I'm

[1:35:52] about to describe to teach other people

[1:35:55] this yoga and it's not easy to learn I

[1:35:58] mean we have 20 hours online where you

[1:36:00] learn this sort of theoretical basis so

[1:36:02] you're comfortable with it and able to

[1:36:05] intelligently respond to people when

[1:36:07] they say but my cousin is taking this

[1:36:09] medicine and look what's happened to her

[1:36:10] and they will have intelligent ways of

[1:36:13] understanding what's really going on

[1:36:14] informed and logical and secondly

[1:36:19] they'll get a deeper understanding of

[1:36:22] why the yoga does what it does and

[1:36:24] there's a test for after the 20 hours

[1:36:28] online that's sort of the theoretical

[1:36:30] part then there are 20 hours on the

[1:36:32] ground 20 hours in the way in the

[1:36:35] workshop which is what we're gonna do it

[1:36:37] in yo well I call it AOL yeah you call

[1:36:40] it that too no yeah yeah okay well and

[1:36:44] there we also give a test at the end we

[1:36:46] ask them to teach each other and we

[1:36:49] judge them because the the critical

[1:36:52] function of a teacher is first to

[1:36:53] inspire people to do it

[1:36:55] secondly to correct them so their

[1:36:57] alignment is good and third to progress

[1:37:00] them from the beginning poses so they

[1:37:03] can safely do the intermediate and

[1:37:05] safely go on from there to the classical

[1:37:09] poses and those are skills that I think

[1:37:12] maybe some people come by them naturally

[1:37:14] but they can be taught to and for you

[1:37:17] know people who are online listening and

[1:37:20] may be interested in this training and

[1:37:23] certification there will be a link to

[1:37:25] the training in the chat box as well as

[1:37:27] the comments also if you have questions

[1:37:31] you know feel free to put those in and

[1:37:33] this is a very kind of live interactive

[1:37:36] session we do have one question

[1:37:39] ready what does yoga do to the

[1:37:42] disintegrating cartilage and how and how

[1:37:45] well first osteoporosis ask your opinion

[1:37:48] are not cartilage disintegration their

[1:37:51] bone and it's not really disintegration

[1:37:54] it's that there are cells they're called

[1:37:56] osteo sites osteoblasts which make bone

[1:38:00] and then there are cells called

[1:38:02] osteoclasts that eat up the bone return

[1:38:05] the protein to the systemic circulation

[1:38:07] so there's a given a take here are cells

[1:38:10] laying down bone here or cells eating up

[1:38:12] bone and what most of the medicines do

[1:38:15] just to give you some perspective is

[1:38:18] they the laying down of bone goes on

[1:38:20] unaffected but they disable and reduce

[1:38:23] the number of the cells that eat up bone

[1:38:27] so now in order to understand what yoga

[1:38:31] does you have to understand Wolf's law

[1:38:34] this is a 19th century german named

[1:38:38] julius wolf was an anatomist and a

[1:38:40] surgeon and he disguise formulated that

[1:38:44] the the lines of force put upon a bone

[1:38:51] determine the laying down of bone he

[1:38:54] said it like this the architectonic of

[1:38:56] bone is determined by the lines of force

[1:38:58] to which that bone is subjected and I

[1:39:02] mean it's an interesting story

[1:39:03] it wasn't he it was another man in in

[1:39:06] colon and cologne in northern Germany

[1:39:08] with making a crane there an engineer he

[1:39:11] wandered into a Natural History Museum

[1:39:13] and he saw the bones of a vultures wing

[1:39:17] and he grasped us for it and he said

[1:39:20] mine got the the bones of the vultures

[1:39:24] wing were exactly what he was doing what

[1:39:27] the head of the crane no you know isn't

[1:39:29] God wonderful isn't what a how

[1:39:31] miraculous and he published a little

[1:39:33] paper and that's when Julius Wolfe

[1:39:34] figure picked it up and he said I seen

[1:39:36] this all the time and that's when you

[1:39:38] formulated wolf's law and published it

[1:39:41] now what is Malala

[1:39:43] Wolf's law states that if you put

[1:39:45] pressure on a bone it's going to build

[1:39:47] up more bone exactly where you put the

[1:39:50] pressure so it takes the head of the

[1:39:51] femur for

[1:39:52] for a moment yeah when you're born your

[1:39:55] femur is dead straight little thick

[1:39:58] little arrow but by the time you're five

[1:40:01] years old it's been like this because

[1:40:02] every time you take a step you

[1:40:04] cantilever off of that hip and the

[1:40:07] pressure is all in here so it builds up

[1:40:09] bone here and the bone over here gets no

[1:40:11] use at all so little by little it bends

[1:40:14] like that now that's not genetic because

[1:40:17] little children who unfortunately cannot

[1:40:19] ever walk you know children with spina

[1:40:22] bifida and cerebral palsy and stuff ear

[1:40:25] bone stays straight as an arrow even

[1:40:27] when they're five or ten or 20 so what's

[1:40:31] genetic is the propensity the ability to

[1:40:34] respond to the pressure that's built

[1:40:37] into all of us and let me tell you yoga

[1:40:40] puts more pressure on the bones than

[1:40:42] gravity huh that's I mean you would you

[1:40:45] like me to prove to you that yoga that

[1:40:47] your muscles are stronger than gravity

[1:40:49] I'm sure you would so here I go you

[1:40:52] ready yes

[1:40:53] steady yes here I go small interesting

[1:41:06] planet you know if you couldn't move the

[1:41:11] muscles be doing so yoga very often for

[1:41:15] example in soup depend on gusta sauna

[1:41:18] and in many poses is opposing one group

[1:41:22] of muscles with another so not only do

[1:41:24] you get many times the force of gravity

[1:41:26] you get many times the force of gravity

[1:41:28] multiplied times two because there are

[1:41:31] those pulling this way and those pulling

[1:41:32] this way and the bone is in the middle

[1:41:33] and that is my best explanation for how

[1:41:38] yoga does it now if you really are

[1:41:41] interested in cartilage

[1:41:42] I believe Yoga does do fabulous things

[1:41:44] for cartilage too I don't know if you

[1:41:47] want me to explain this or not I I

[1:41:50] certainly am happy to do it but it might

[1:41:53] be off the point I could say a little

[1:41:56] bit so in in off since on osteoarthritis

[1:42:02] don't we lose cartilage and how did

[1:42:04] you'll get help with that that's

[1:42:06] ha ha osteoarthritis of course that's

[1:42:08] not osteoporosis ok your arthritis is

[1:42:12] the joint at the end of this bone the

[1:42:15] joint of this phone osteoporosis is the

[1:42:18] middle yeah

[1:42:19] so that they're different they apply to

[1:42:21] different places but Yoga does help with

[1:42:23] osteoarthritis too and it doesn't in a

[1:42:27] variety of ways one ways I wish I could

[1:42:29] give you a picture of a good old joint

[1:42:31] um I just might understand that maybe I

[1:42:34] can do that here the knee take the knee

[1:42:38] yes big bone here

[1:42:40] a little bone right there and then a

[1:42:41] large bone going all the way down yeah

[1:42:44] inside this joint it's fluid and that

[1:42:48] fluid is critical to the joints proper

[1:42:51] functioning mmm because the the

[1:42:54] cartilage that lines that joint needs

[1:42:58] oxygen glucose protein hormones and it

[1:43:02] also needs to get rid of the products of

[1:43:04] metabolism lactic acid and so on which

[1:43:07] are quite toxic so there are no blood

[1:43:10] vessels in these joints it would be

[1:43:12] terrible to have blood vessels in your

[1:43:14] knee

[1:43:14] cuz every time you took a step and they

[1:43:18] wouldn't last so the knee as a joint as

[1:43:21] a as a capsule that holds all the fluid

[1:43:23] in there and the walls of that capsule

[1:43:26] are filled with little blood vessels are

[1:43:29] called synovium and they secrete the

[1:43:32] synovial fluid which floats around in

[1:43:34] there now what does yoga do well yoga

[1:43:37] makes sure through its eccentric and

[1:43:39] extreme motions make sure that that that

[1:43:42] fluid gets circulated to the very edges

[1:43:45] so they're big tips and corners of the

[1:43:47] joint and it's those tips and corners

[1:43:49] that usually initiate osteoarthritis huh

[1:43:52] first secondly yoga this is a little

[1:43:56] more advanced than you wanted to know

[1:43:58] you don't want to know what this want to

[1:43:59] tell you anyway Yoga this stimulates the

[1:44:04] release of a chemical from our bone from

[1:44:07] our muscles called P G c1 alpha it's a

[1:44:11] really catchy name I know P G C 1 alpha

[1:44:15] P G C 1 alpha happens to be first a very

[1:44:20] anti-inflammatory and it does reduce the

[1:44:22] incidence of all kinds of cancers

[1:44:24] gastrointestinal cancers genital cancers

[1:44:26] you know uterus breast prostate and and

[1:44:31] melanoma it really does reduce the

[1:44:32] incidence of those but also it's the

[1:44:36] strongest known stimulant for

[1:44:38] mitochondria mitochondria are those

[1:44:41] little tiny vesicles inside every cell

[1:44:44] every every animal cell I think there

[1:44:47] are one or two crazy exceptions and

[1:44:50] they're the power stations there would

[1:44:52] transfer translate your food into energy

[1:44:55] you know that's where the Krebs cycle

[1:44:57] goes on it's where ATP is generated you

[1:45:01] know it's it's where the cell gets its

[1:45:04] its energy and as I say yoga stimulates

[1:45:09] release of a chemical which stimulates

[1:45:12] the mitochondria mm-hmm these strongest

[1:45:16] Emma's in increasing the number of

[1:45:18] mitochondria and their activity and when

[1:45:21] it comes to joints and cartilage well

[1:45:25] the more and the more mitochondria you

[1:45:27] have the better they those cells are the

[1:45:29] stronger they are the more resistant to

[1:45:32] disease infection and damage well I mean

[1:45:38] there are other ways too but I think

[1:45:39] those are two big ones sure and to step

[1:45:42] back for a second what has been for you

[1:45:45] the most fascinating discovery in this

[1:45:47] whole journey well it's not very much

[1:45:53] for publication but the very the most

[1:45:54] interesting thing for me has been me

[1:45:58] I've learned so much about myself well I

[1:46:01] don't think I can

[1:46:03] I mean learning about osteoporosis has

[1:46:05] been wonderful we have some other cures

[1:46:07] for us frosty arthritis for scoliosis

[1:46:11] that was pretty interesting we found a

[1:46:12] way to actually reverse scoliosis and we

[1:46:15] found a way to reduce the pain and

[1:46:18] increase the range of motion after

[1:46:19] rotator cuff I mean this arm of mine

[1:46:22] over here I had I won't tell you the

[1:46:25] whole story but I had a terrible rotator

[1:46:27] cuff and I could not raise my arm above

[1:46:29] here to save my soul but I

[1:46:33] I had one day and I made appointments

[1:46:35] with the two greatest surgeons in New

[1:46:37] York for the shoulder and wait a month

[1:46:39] to see him instead of being a doctor

[1:46:41] myself and one day I just missed yoga so

[1:46:43] much I stood on my head

[1:46:45] the Iyengar way where you pull your

[1:46:46] shoulders away from your ears like my

[1:46:49] wife came downstairs she said Lauren and

[1:46:53] I got up and ready to be sheepish but I

[1:46:55] realized I could raise my arm

[1:46:58] well I kept the two appointments with

[1:47:01] the doctors and I they ask me question

[1:47:04] after where they looked at my MRI which

[1:47:05] is a massive tear I mean it's the worst

[1:47:07] kind of tear you can get you know the

[1:47:09] two parts of the muscle are rent asunder

[1:47:11] about 4 centimeters and then then grasp

[1:47:15] their foreheads and they said well what

[1:47:16] about this what about that finally they

[1:47:18] got around to the pusher well dr.

[1:47:19] Fishman what can you do I said well I

[1:47:21] can raise my arm like this I can raise

[1:47:24] my arm like this and they the room was

[1:47:26] totally silent and in each case these

[1:47:28] two doctors in different parts of the

[1:47:29] city they said you don't need surgery

[1:47:31] you're doing better than you will do

[1:47:33] after surgery whoa that really threw

[1:47:36] down the gauntlet to me and I hear an

[1:47:38] article is about I published I have

[1:47:40] about 1,500 patients with it now that

[1:47:42] I've cured about 90% of money I've got I

[1:47:46] just got a grant from the NIH to do a

[1:47:48] very interesting study in my opinion on

[1:47:51] to generate an objective scale for pain

[1:47:54] based on the fact that when they raise

[1:47:58] their arm the first time oh it hurts so

[1:48:00] much

[1:48:00] and when they raise arm after learning

[1:48:02] this maneuver doesn't run at all so here

[1:48:05] I am by the way at least 20 years later

[1:48:07] no probs now on this side I had surgery

[1:48:10] I didn't I had enough discovered this

[1:48:11] yet so I'd surgery this one's good too

[1:48:14] it hurts a little yes well well and when

[1:48:19] you said you learned about yourself was

[1:48:21] it this kind of learning discovery on

[1:48:23] the physical level or also on me well it

[1:48:26] is on the physical level too and there's

[1:48:27] no question about it but no I'm talking

[1:48:30] about on the intellectual or emotional

[1:48:32] or spiritual if you will level where I

[1:48:35] learned I think the main thing that you

[1:48:39] get with meditation at least that I get

[1:48:41] is that you feel safe enough to confront

[1:48:46] you feel safe enough to ask yourself the

[1:48:49] questions you've been assiduously

[1:48:51] avoided why did I do this why do I look

[1:48:56] down on him for doing that when I do it

[1:48:59] too so that that's where I think yoga

[1:49:04] has brought me further than any then I

[1:49:07] would have gotten otherwise and was this

[1:49:10] a byproduct of the practice or also kind

[1:49:13] of a part of it for yourself

[1:49:14] oh it's part of it I mean I I cannot

[1:49:20] convince myself that I don't have much

[1:49:22] further to go but I have learned

[1:49:25] something and the things I've learned

[1:49:29] fill me with humility you know and and

[1:49:33] with joy you made a very interesting

[1:49:36] comment a bit earlier that you

[1:49:40] you think you have figure out how yoga

[1:49:43] does help heal and I know we touched on

[1:49:46] a couple points related with

[1:49:48] osteoporosis osteoarthritis what else do

[1:49:52] you have to say there about how yoga

[1:49:55] does it well there are all kinds of

[1:49:57] different mechanisms you have to realize

[1:49:59] I'm a doctor certain have a kind of

[1:50:01] faith in basically material proofs

[1:50:05] ya know yoga may work in other ways too

[1:50:08] that I just I'm aware of or I'm not

[1:50:10] aware of but I can't prove anything

[1:50:11] that's for me it's always it's always a

[1:50:14] question of finding some solid reliable

[1:50:17] way of showing a difference between

[1:50:19] before and after and back pain is maybe

[1:50:23] a really good example there are to me

[1:50:27] there are seven different forms of back

[1:50:29] pain there's a herniated disc there

[1:50:31] spinal stenosis there are there are

[1:50:33] seven basic types of back pain and yoga

[1:50:36] works for all seven of them but not the

[1:50:38] same way what's good for a herniated

[1:50:41] disc is bad for stenosis and what's good

[1:50:44] for stenosis is bad for a herniated disc

[1:50:46] so it's not as though there's one thing

[1:50:48] this you know the way you say what does

[1:50:50] penicillin do kills germs yoga's not

[1:50:54] that way and if people are interested in

[1:50:59] you know learning more or finding a way

[1:51:01] to approach their herniated disc or back

[1:51:04] pain through yoga where would you

[1:51:06] recommend people go well this is a paid

[1:51:09] political announcement my book okay

[1:51:12] I've written about ten books on various

[1:51:15] subjects and about five of them on yoga

[1:51:16] and I just one is it's not so new

[1:51:19] anymore it's probably two years old

[1:51:20] called healing yoga no Norton publishes

[1:51:25] most of my books and they and it's got

[1:51:27] whole chapters on all seven of the kinds

[1:51:30] of back pain whoa and sometimes

[1:51:33] combinations work you know they have a

[1:51:35] piriformis syndrome and sacral iliac

[1:51:38] joint arrangement what do you do then so

[1:51:40] it doesn't cover every such combination

[1:51:43] but some of them so I recommend my book

[1:51:45] I got another book called sciatica which

[1:51:48] ought to be helpful in the same way and

[1:51:50] for osteoarthritis we have a book I

[1:51:53] wrote with Ellen Saltonstall called Yoga

[1:51:55] for osteoporosis arthritis yoga for

[1:52:00] arthritis and it also sounds like you

[1:52:03] had this kind of developing body of

[1:52:06] certified teachers who are also helping

[1:52:09] people with instruction in this oh yeah

[1:52:11] we we now I go around the country and I

[1:52:14] teach I mean we've taught in San

[1:52:16] Francisco and certainly taught in North

[1:52:18] Carolina and other Chicago in places we

[1:52:21] now have teachers in 37 states beautiful

[1:52:25] about six countries you know sweet know

[1:52:29] Norway Switzerland Israel Singapore and

[1:52:33] Canada and maybe one other one somewhere

[1:52:36] so in other countries and so Australia a

[1:52:40] couple in Australia already and if you

[1:52:43] want to be in the study you have to see

[1:52:46] a yoga teacher every two weeks and if

[1:52:47] there is there's one near you great but

[1:52:50] if there isn't one near you we will

[1:52:52] Skype with you mmm you know you really

[1:52:55] can Skype this material you watch them

[1:52:58] you give them pointers you estimate how

[1:53:01] hard they're trying I mean there really

[1:53:03] are two basic principles one is the

[1:53:06] wonderful alignment that mr. Iyengar

[1:53:09] understood so accurately and secondly

[1:53:12] trying hard and because the alignment is

[1:53:15] so important and can be understood and

[1:53:18] followed so well you can try hard

[1:53:20] without hurting yourself hmm no if you

[1:53:23] were off like this doing a yoga pose and

[1:53:25] you tried really hard you could hurt

[1:53:27] yourself but if you stay straight and in

[1:53:29] all the ways that it's important to do

[1:53:31] so you can try really hard put an awful

[1:53:34] lot of pressure on your bones but hurt

[1:53:36] nothing

[1:53:39] so before we wind up I was wondering if

[1:53:42] we could take one of these uh you know

[1:53:45] these questions that you you mentioned

[1:53:47] that you kind of found the the

[1:53:50] confidence to ask yourself those

[1:53:53] questions that we assiduously avoid

[1:53:55] maybe you could share a question for the

[1:53:58] group to reflect on and to be with well

[1:54:03] yeah I mean it's easy I can think of I

[1:54:05] my questions may not be the same as the

[1:54:07] next person's questions but one of my

[1:54:10] questions was why are you so eager to

[1:54:12] prove that you are better than the next

[1:54:14] person

[1:54:16] that was one before I just focused on

[1:54:20] proving I was better which of course is

[1:54:24] pretty impossible but I could convince

[1:54:26] myself and maybe convince somebody else

[1:54:28] oh and that really proves it doesn't and

[1:54:31] another one is what is it about him that

[1:54:36] you don't like and that one I think we

[1:54:41] all feel that sometimes and what I found

[1:54:43] to be the overwhelming answer not every

[1:54:46] member every time but very much more

[1:54:48] than half the time because it's

[1:54:50] something about myself that I don't like

[1:54:52] and I really don't want to see in

[1:54:55] somebody else I mean that's really

[1:54:57] offensive so and then you want to say

[1:55:02] yourself well why don't I like that

[1:55:04] about me what's wrong with that

[1:55:05] and these are things that you Jim at

[1:55:10] least I generally hide these things from

[1:55:12] my self my selfishness my insecurities

[1:55:16] desire to one-up other people you know

[1:55:20] why is it so important to me hmm you

[1:55:23] know which it has been in my life you

[1:55:26] know so much

[1:55:27] I consider you know when I look back at

[1:55:29] my life years ago I would say what are

[1:55:31] my real triumphs well I did better than

[1:55:33] he did I get better than she did you

[1:55:35] know it was he's always a question of

[1:55:38] better than not good did you do any good

[1:55:41] huh

[1:55:42] and to come to that it's it's easy to

[1:55:45] say it but to actually go through the

[1:55:47] the analysis you have to go through to

[1:55:50] understand what the difference is not so

[1:55:53] easy well so those are some of the

[1:55:56] things I was able to to recognize and

[1:55:59] there are many more I mean I I'm sure I

[1:56:02] have as many more or more more than that

[1:56:04] that I haven't recognized yet but coming

[1:56:07] to that realization gives you great

[1:56:08] curiosity about yourself hmm I mean my

[1:56:12] great teacher mr. Iyengar

[1:56:13] said the greatest adventure in a man's

[1:56:16] life and I assume he means a woman's

[1:56:18] life too is getting to know yourself you

[1:56:24] know we're really complex little

[1:56:26] cesspools and we can clear it all up but

[1:56:31] it's it's hard and it's a dirty you have

[1:56:37] to have that sort of confidence and high

[1:56:39] spirit to plumb the depths and come up

[1:56:43] clean well thank you so much for sharing

[1:56:49] with us tonight and sharing a research

[1:56:52] your spirit your insights over the years

[1:56:54] and pleasure okay I really have enjoyed

[1:56:58] it a lot so I hope we I hope you get

[1:57:03] together again and I guess are you down

[1:57:05] there will I see you in June most

[1:57:09] certainly I am I'm here and we will see

[1:57:11] you uh up in the mountains again okay

[1:57:16] pleasure my pleasure thank you dr.

[1:57:18] Lauren and uh hope any of our viewers

[1:57:20] also on you know if you're interested in

[1:57:22] a certification you'd like to learn more

[1:57:24] please do click on that link and you

[1:57:27] know consider joining us this summer and

[1:57:29] we would love to see more more people

[1:57:31] out there and have spreading this

[1:57:33] wonderful healing message it seems a so

[1:57:36] valuable

Jai Dev Singh
ArtistJai Dev Singh

Kundalini Yoga and mantra teacher rooted in Yogi Bhajan's lineage, offering transformative spiritual practices through dynamic classes, mantra recordings, and global workshops.

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OsteoporosisBone-healthYoga-researchWolff-lawSkeletal-medicine

Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

According to Dr. Fishman's research, yoga can actively build bone density, not merely slow bone loss like pharmaceutical treatments. His two-year clinical study using DEXA scans showed measurable improvements in bone mineral density in people who practiced specific yoga poses with proper alignment.
Medical professionals often fear that yoga will cause fractures in people with weakened bones. However, Fishman's evidence shows this fear is unfounded when yoga is practiced correctly. The issue is alignment and precision—a properly taught pose creates beneficial mechanical stress on bone, triggering strengthening rather than injury.
Wolff's Law states that bone responds to mechanical stress by strengthening. When muscles contract and pull on bone during precisely aligned yoga poses, it signals bone-building cells (osteoblasts) to increase mineral deposition. Over time, this creates measurable increases in bone density.
A DEXA scan (dual x-ray absorptiometry) is a medical test that precisely measures bone mineral density. Fishman used it to objectively prove that people practicing yoga showed improvements in bone density compared to a control group, providing scientific evidence rather than anecdotal claims.
Dr. Fishman emphasizes that the specific pose matters less than how it is performed—alignment and the quality of muscle contraction are critical. Eccentric and isometric contractions (muscle lengthening or holding under tension) are particularly effective for loading bones and triggering adaptation.
Yes, but with proper supervision. Work with a yoga teacher trained in therapeutic practices or with medical understanding, ideally in consultation with your doctor. Precise alignment is essential; a misaligned practice may not provide benefits and could reinforce harmful patterns.
Dr. Fishman's pilot study tracked participants over two years and found measurable improvements in that timeframe. However, bone remodeling is a gradual process, and consistency with properly aligned practice is key—practicing once a week showed benefits in his research.

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