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Inspiration

When Your Spiritual Path Becomes a Burden on Others

Radhika Das
Radhika Das
Oct 5, 2026
8 min read
Watch · 7

You come home from a transformative spiritual retreat, reeling with insights and gratitude, bursting to tell your sister—who's deep in her university years, living a life you now see as hollow. You walk through the door and the words tumble out: "You need to start chanting Hare Krishna. This mantra will revolutionize your life." Your sister stares at you. Your mother, God bless her, says "Yeah, yeah, sure." And in that moment, something shifts. You realize you've just done the thing you didn't mean to do: you've assumed superiority over someone you love.

This is the collision point where spiritual awakening meets family dynamics, where genuine transformation bumps against the ancient human impulse to evangelize—and where many sincere practitioners find themselves isolated, resented, or, worst of all, unable to reach the people closest to them. The paradox is cruel: the more profound your own spiritual journey, the more urgent the temptation to hand it to others like a life raft. But there's a problem with that impulse, and it has little to do with the spiritual path itself. It has everything to do with who you are in the moment you're trying to save someone else.

Read · 7 sections

The Trap of Immature Enthusiasm

In bhakti philosophy, there's a term for what happens to new practitioners: utsaha mayi—immature enthusiasm. It's that electric early stage when the knowledge feels revolutionary, when the experiences are fresh and unlimited, when you believe (correctly, from your perspective) that everyone should know about this. And instantly, you take it upon yourself to become the savior. You want to be Jesus. Not in a grandiose sense, but in the most human one: you've found water, and you're convinced everyone around you is dying of thirst.

The irony is that this stage of spiritual life is not wrong—it's necessary. Enthusiasm fuels practice. But when that enthusiasm becomes the vehicle for imposing your path on others, something gets corrupted. "There's like an energy in that of I'm now a little bit more elevated than you," as Radhika Das observes in her conversation on this subject. It's subtle. It's almost invisible to the person doing it. But it's there—a whisper that says your way is better, that you've figured something out they haven't, that your transformation is the template they should follow.

Why Knowledge Alone Doesn't Change Hearts

Here's what catches practitioners off guard: you can know the whole of Vedanta backwards and forwards. You can articulate the philosophy flawlessly, cite the texts, explain the cosmology, describe the stages of consciousness. And still—still—you may not be able to change another person's heart. This is the humbling truth that separates understanding from wisdom.

Radhika Das recounts an early attempt to convert her sister to Christian devotion. It didn't work. Her sister called her a loony. But then something unexpected happened: her sister went to an event and experienced the path through others—not through Radhika's urgency, but through the natural magnetism of practitioners who weren't trying to convert her. She got inspired on her own terms. "I realized that I may not be the person that can help this person," Radhika reflects. "I may not be the person that can change their heart, change their consciousness."

This matters because it reveals something about how spiritual transmission actually works. It's not a matter of information transfer—that's the mistake. You hand someone a book, explain the philosophy, make your case, and expect their consciousness to shift. But consciousness doesn't shift that way. It shifts through presence, through example, through the living evidence of a practice working in someone's actual life. And paradoxically, that living evidence is most powerful when you're not trying to use it as a tool of persuasion.

Inspiring Without Imposing

So what's the difference between inspiration and imposition? Stina, a co-host in Radhika Das's conversation, points to something her grandfather said: "The fanatic is he who has only ever read one book." When our understanding is narrow, when we're not yet secure in our own practice, we develop an urgent need for everyone around us to believe and do what we believe and do. It's insecurity masquerading as zeal. But the more knowledgeable we become, the more our understanding expands, the more "spaciousness" we have for others to disagree, to follow different paths, to exist in a worldview we don't share.

"Truth can coexist," Stina says. "It doesn't have to be this or that. It can be this and that." That's not relativism. It's not saying all paths are the same. It's saying that my path being true for me doesn't require your path to be false for you.

When you operate from that spaciousness, something shifts energetically. You're no longer radiating an agenda. You're radiating peace, contentment, the simple fact that your practice is working for you. And that is infinitely more attractive than any argument you could make.

The Mission Is Me, Not Them

Here's a reframe that changes everything: the sharing of Krishna bhakti with others—or any spiritual path, any spiritual knowledge—is actually more about your own purification than it is about your qualification to change someone's heart. You heard that right. When you share, you're doing the work for yourself. You're processing your own understanding. You're refining your own practice. The transformation in the other person is not your responsibility. It's their path, their timing, their choice.

This is what it means when Radhika Das says, "The mission is me, not them." It sounds selfish until you realize it's the opposite of selfish. It's the release of the ego's desire to be the hero of someone else's story. It's the recognition that you cannot heal someone who isn't asking to be healed. You cannot change anyone's consciousness but your own. And when you commit fully to changing your own—when you make yourself the mission—you become, paradoxically, far more useful to others.

"Like we radiate so much great energy when we just focus on ourselves," Radhika observes. That's not navel-gazing. That's recognizing that presence is contagious, that peace is attractive, that someone living their truth is more compelling than someone trying to convince you to adopt theirs.

Compassion Over Preaching

If the mission is you, what then is your responsibility to the people you love? Compassion. Not pity, not the "I know better than you" energy. Real compassion—the kind that says, "I see you. I honor your journey. If you ask, I'm here. If you don't, I love you anyway."

This is where the ancient story of Prahlad and Hiranyakashipu becomes instructive. Prahlad is a devout Krishna devotee whose father, Hiranyakashipu, is a tyrant who rejects everything his son believes. Hiranyakashipu tries to force his worldview on his son. He tries to convert Prahlad away from devotion. He fails. But notice: Prahlad doesn't spend his time trying to convert his father. Instead, he prays for his father's spiritual welfare. He loves his father even as his father refuses to change. That's the model.

It's "so much more than just like helping other people," as the conversation notes. It's about being patient, being humble, being simply loving. It's about recognizing that sometimes the greatest gift you can give someone is the freedom to not become what you've become.

When and How to Share

This doesn't mean never sharing. It means being deliberate about it. It means noticing the energy behind your impulse. Are you sharing because someone asked? Are you sharing because you genuinely sense an opening, a readiness? Or are you sharing because you need them to validate your path by walking it too?

The difference matters. And it shows up in how you share. If you're coming from the spaciousness of "this works for me, and you're free to explore it or not," that lands differently than "you need to do this." One invites. One imposes. One person in the exchange remains free. In the other, someone's been positioned as broken and in need of fixing.

Radhika Das notes that some people avoid her in wellness spaces because they think she's trying to preach to them systematically. That's the cost of immature evangelism—it creates distance, not connection. It makes people protect themselves against you, not open toward you. And the saddest part is that it works against the very thing you're trying to do, which is to make spiritual knowledge accessible and relevant to the people around you.

Where to Go From Here

The invitation, then, is clear: stop trying to save your friends and family. Start loving them instead. Make yourself the mission. Tend your own garden with such care and attention that the blooms speak for themselves. When someone asks, be generous with your knowledge and your experience. When they don't ask, let them be. And hold in your heart the possibility that they're exactly where they need to be, walking the path that's right for them, learning the lessons that are theirs to learn. Your job is not to reroute their journey. Your job is to walk your own with integrity, with humility, and with the kind of love that doesn't keep score and doesn't demand conversion as its proof.

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Transcript

[0:00] How healed do you need to be

[0:02] to be able to heal other people?

[0:04] >> You may know the whole entire Vedanta

[0:06] back to front and still not be able to

[0:08] change another person's heart.

[0:09] >> When we approach a flashy new spiritual

[0:12] tradition and practice that's obviously

[0:15] making waves in our own minds and lives

[0:17] and transforming us, instantly we all

[0:19] want to be Jesus.

[0:20] >> I have a feeling that some people avoid

[0:22] me

[0:23] in the kind of wellness yoga cure tone

[0:25] space because they think I'm trying to

[0:27] preach them systematically.

[0:29] >> Sharing of of Krishna bhakti with others

[0:31] is actually more about your own

[0:32] purification than it is about your

[0:35] qualification to change someone's heart.

[0:37] >> I now know better than you. Let me share

[0:39] with you this amazing thing I have

[0:42] discovered. There's like an energy in

[0:44] that of I'm now a little bit more

[0:46] elevated than you.

[0:48] >> Like we radiate so much

[0:51] great energy

[0:52] when we just focus on ourselves.

[0:54] >> [music]

[0:55] [singing]

[0:59] >> Hello. For Soul's Sake, you're back.

[1:02] Another episode with my dear friends Nam

[1:04] and Stina. We are all about trying to

[1:07] make this spiritual bhakti

[1:11] knowledge more accessible and relevant

[1:14] to not just you, but to a potential

[1:16] friend, to a neighbor who's really deep

[1:19] down needing some spirituality in their

[1:21] life. And so, if you feel like this

[1:22] conversation will even without hearing

[1:25] it, you can already tell it's going to

[1:26] be good cuz you know it's three of us

[1:27] and you know it's always good.

[1:29] Share it with a friend. Hit that like

[1:30] button. Hit that subscribe button and

[1:33] share it with a friend because we are on

[1:35] a mission to make spirituality

[1:37] accessible and relevant for the masses

[1:39] and we're trying to do it as

[1:40] professionally as we can with this

[1:42] incredible setup and with all the audio

[1:44] equipment that goes with it. So, if

[1:46] you're listening or you're watching the

[1:48] full episode, I'm so grateful that

[1:49] you're here. Thank you so much for being

[1:50] here and share it with a friend. Today

[1:53] we are talking about, ironically,

[1:57] stop trying to save your friends and

[1:59] family.

[2:00] Start loving them instead. We're going

[2:02] to explore the tension of being on a

[2:05] spiritual path

[2:07] while our nearest and dearest might not

[2:09] understand it. And uh they may not value

[2:11] it, they may not want us to be part of

[2:14] it, they may not want to join us, even

[2:16] though we've been trying to get them

[2:17] tickets to Radhe Krishna Das for over a

[2:18] year. Um this episode should hopefully

[2:21] help you to reflect on the difference

[2:23] between inspiring people

[2:26] and trying to change them.

[2:28] Notice how I did higher and lower.

[2:30] The aim is to gently move us uh away

[2:34] from frustration in our sharing and our

[2:36] preaching and our, you know, trying to

[2:38] cultivate spiritual knowledge in others,

[2:40] um which is actually kind of like a

[2:42] subtle superiority. It's going to get

[2:44] interesting, people.

[2:46] But we're going to move towards trying

[2:47] to be more patient with people, more

[2:49] humble with people, more simply loving

[2:52] with people.

[2:54] So uh yeah.

[2:55] Don't try and save your friends and

[2:57] family. Start loving them instead.

[2:59] Stina, thoughts?

[3:03] >> Mhm.

[3:05] >> Have you tried to do it? What's your

[3:06] personal experience with it? Let's start

[3:07] there.

[3:07] >> Yeah, so actually what just came to mind

[3:09] was something my grandfather always used

[3:11] to say. He said, "The fanatic is he who

[3:14] has only ever read one book."

[3:17] And I think this goes to the core of

[3:19] this subject matter because I think

[3:21] often

[3:23] we if we're not quite secure in our own

[3:27] sort of understanding or not rooted in

[3:31] our practice or lineage or what we

[3:33] follow or believe in, then we have this

[3:36] need for everybody else around us to

[3:38] also follow

[3:41] what we are doing and be the same.

[3:43] Whereas I think the more knowledgeable

[3:45] we become and the more we can sort of

[3:48] have a more comprehensive understanding

[3:50] of philosophy and

[3:54] the practices and things, the more room

[3:55] we have, the more spaciousness we have

[3:57] for other people to disagree with us

[4:00] or even for this idea that truth can

[4:03] coexist and it doesn't have to be

[4:05] this or that, it can be this and that.

[4:09] >> Mhm.

[4:11] I'm trying to think of like a personal

[4:13] experience of this. You know,

[4:15] okay, it did happen in my life.

[4:18] I came across

[4:19] the Christian devotees

[4:22] and I went on a bit of a mission to

[4:23] convert my sister.

[4:27] Didn't end up well.

[4:29] No, it happened.

[4:31] Uh, she told me I was a loony and then

[4:33] uh

[4:34] yeah, she went to an event and then she

[4:36] she experienced it from others and then

[4:37] got really inspired, but that was very

[4:39] humbling cuz I realized that I I

[4:41] genuinely realized and I still remember

[4:43] it to this day, I may not be the person

[4:45] that can help this person.

[4:47] >> Mhm.

[4:48] >> I may not be the person that can change

[4:49] their heart, change their consciousness.

[4:51] Very humbling, it's humiliating. It's

[4:53] like you may know more than one book

[4:56] and still you may know that whole entire

[4:58] Vedanta back to front and still not be

[5:00] able to change another person's heart.

[5:02] And it's very humbling. It's man, I

[5:04] mean, okay, another one, this is really

[5:06] funny.

[5:07] There were three musketeers at primary

[5:09] school at my little kiddie school. It

[5:11] was me, Nam and another friend

[5:14] and I was convinced

[5:17] that I would be the one that would

[5:19] convert

[5:20] the other one, who's not in the room

[5:22] right now

[5:23] to Christian bhakti.

[5:25] Turned out Nam went on and became the

[5:27] devotee.

[5:28] >> Mhm.

[5:29] >> So, it's like

[5:31] it's

[5:32] it's there's no linear pattern to trying

[5:34] to convert people. There's nothing Okay,

[5:36] first and foremost, I'm going to say

[5:38] there's nothing to convert to.

[5:40] There's absolutely nothing to convert

[5:42] to.

[5:43] There may be a set of rituals and

[5:44] culture that we want to try and impress

[5:46] upon people, but you can't convert

[5:48] someone to love.

[5:51] There's there's no way you can you can't

[5:53] force someone. You can like the Chinese

[5:55] there's that problem. You can't

[5:56] uh bring the horse to the water and

[5:58] force it to drink the water. There's not

[6:00] You can bring it, you can't force it.

[6:02] >> Yeah.

[6:03] >> Experiences in your life?

[6:05] >> Yeah, I think it's like a a natural

[6:07] thing, right? When we

[6:10] approach a flashy new spiritual

[6:12] tradition and practice that's obviously

[6:14] making waves in our own minds and lives

[6:16] and transforming us.

[6:18] Instantly, we all want to be Jesus.

[6:21] Ooh, you know, we all want to be like

[6:22] the savior.

[6:24] We want to be known as like

[6:25] >> back track there. Back track there. We

[6:26] want to be Jesus?

[6:28] >> Yeah.

[6:28] >> What? Like to be like the Messiah?

[6:30] >> Yeah.

[6:32] That Messiah not I wouldn't say it's the

[6:33] Messiah complex, but

[6:35] there's a term in um

[6:37] bhakti philosophy known as the first

[6:38] stage someone feels um when they start

[6:41] their bhakti journey is called utsaha

[6:43] mayi, which means is essentially

[6:45] immature enthusiasm. It's the initial

[6:47] like, "Wow, this is amazing. This is

[6:50] like revolutionary. I'm feeling these

[6:51] experiences. This knowledge is deep.

[6:54] It's right unlimited knowledge. Everyone

[6:56] should know about it."

[6:57] Then instantly you take it on yourself

[6:59] to become the Messiah. Yeah, let's do

[7:01] this. Do this. Yeah, you're like this.

[7:02] You've got ego. You need to You know,

[7:04] and it's a very like an interesting

[7:06] immature I like that word. It's an

[7:07] immature enthusiasm. And we all want to

[7:09] be the savior.

[7:11] I think for me

[7:12] I went uh as Radica mentioned I was like

[7:15] university, was getting involved. Then I

[7:17] decided to go on this this trip this

[7:19] youth trip to to to Belgium to one of

[7:22] our temples in Belgium. I found found it

[7:25] to be an absolutely amazing experience.

[7:27] >> And in 2012?

[7:29] >> 2000 and it must have been about Yeah,

[7:32] 12. 12 actually, yeah.

[7:35] And I came home

[7:36] and I I I went up to my mom and my

[7:39] sister

[7:40] and I went, "Yo." And the first thing I

[7:42] did when I through the door, I said,

[7:44] 'You guys need to start chanting Hare

[7:45] Krishna.'"

[7:46] >> [laughter]

[7:47] >> That was the first thing. I just went,

[7:49] "You guys need to start This mantra's

[7:51] going to revolutionize your life. Like,

[7:53] you need to start."

[7:55] And my sister was like in her peak

[7:57] university years. You know, she was like

[7:58] partying in Cambridge, like having a

[8:00] good time. My mom was like, interesting

[8:02] response. My mom was like, "Okay."

[8:05] >> [laughter]

[8:05] >> My mom was just like, "Okay, yeah,

[8:06] yeah."

[8:06] >> She's such a sweetheart.

[8:07] >> "Yeah, yeah, sure. Okay, yeah." Then she

[8:09] started buying me pictures of Krishna

[8:11] like to hang at university. I was like,

[8:12] "Whoa."

[8:13] But my sister was just like

[8:15] She She would You could see she was like

[8:17] a bit like, "What?" Like, "Where did

[8:19] this come from?"

[8:20] But I think similarly to you, what you

[8:22] were saying that it wasn't me who was

[8:24] able to share Krishna with her.

[8:26] It was Krishna's desire of other people

[8:29] in her life who

[8:31] kind of responsible.

[8:32] So, I think

[8:34] we spoke about this on a previous

[8:35] podcast that we released a few weeks

[8:37] ago, but

[8:39] we're not in the center of Krishna's

[8:41] plans.

[8:43] And we're not in the center of service.

[8:45] Service is about the other person, not

[8:46] about us being the savior. If we truly

[8:48] care that someone comes to bhakti, we

[8:51] don't care who and how and in which

[8:54] situation it it happens. It's about them

[8:57] receiving it in what way Krishna feels

[8:58] best for them.

[9:00] So, I think that that initial

[9:01] enthusiasm, our ego's still in the

[9:03] center of it all. And I think it's uh

[9:06] And this is I don't think this is about

[9:07] spiritual communities as well. I think

[9:09] this emotion is felt And there's

[9:11] probably a psychological term for it,

[9:12] but I think this emotion's felt in

[9:15] in any new things that we It's natural,

[9:17] man. It's natural, like

[9:20] >> I don't think there's anything wrong

[9:21] with the initial enthusiasm, cuz I think

[9:24] it's very purifying.

[9:25] Like, you know when you initially tried

[9:27] it when you first I don't think you went

[9:29] through this, cuz I I think you already

[9:30] came a lot more spiritually aware than

[9:33] most. But I've seen it happen a lot in

[9:36] our community. And I don't think there's

[9:37] anything wrong with it. I think we might

[9:39] have an internal giggle cuz we know

[9:40] that's what's what's going on in their

[9:42] life and it's a part of the progression.

[9:45] But it's very natural like when you're

[9:47] in love

[9:48] it's very natural you want to tell

[9:50] everybody about it. Even though you may

[9:52] not, but like you have this like

[9:53] bursting overwhelming feeling of having

[9:55] found something that really makes you

[9:57] happy.

[9:58] And so I don't think there's anything

[9:59] wrong with

[10:00] this natural

[10:02] >> [snorts]

[10:02] >> expression of wanting to share Krishna

[10:04] bhakti with others. Or any form of

[10:06] spirituality that matter I think.

[10:09] Um where we have to be just mindful is

[10:11] the sensitivity of um coming across a

[10:14] bit too

[10:16] uh

[10:16] >> imposing

[10:17] >> imposing, yeah.

[10:18] >> Yeah.

[10:18] >> Like if you don't then

[10:20] Like I think one thing is the guilt and

[10:22] the shame. Like you're not doing it, I

[10:24] am. You're not doing the work, I'm doing

[10:26] it. Well, maybe they are doing the work.

[10:27] You just don't know. And the second part

[10:30] about this whole thing of sharing is we

[10:32] need to be careful about not sharing too

[10:34] much too soon. Cuz it may actually

[10:37] bring them completely the other

[10:38] direction. Like no, these guys are

[10:40] definitely wacko.

[10:42] Like I'm going completely the other way.

[10:44] So

[10:45] >> Richard Rohr famously said that the

[10:48] easiest place to hide from God is in the

[10:51] church.

[10:53] And I think that with this as well

[10:56] it touches a little bit on this notion

[10:58] that when you're preaching to someone

[11:00] else, you're considering yourself to be

[11:03] more enlightened, to be more

[11:04] knowledgeable, to be further ahead.

[11:07] And like you just said, you don't know

[11:08] where somebody else is at and their

[11:10] spiritual practice may well just look

[11:12] very different to yours, but that

[11:13] doesn't mean that they're not

[11:15] >> Yeah.

[11:15] >> actually

[11:17] potentially more enlightened than you.

[11:20] >> Mhm.

[11:21] >> Yeah, definitely.

[11:23] I'm just thinking though

[11:25] if there weren't

[11:29] if

[11:29] You know why I'm I think that that we

[11:31] need to be careful here is cuz there are

[11:34] people in the world that do really

[11:35] appreciate that style of presentation.

[11:38] Like

[11:40] I've you know you you meet particular

[11:42] parts of a spiritual society that want

[11:44] to preach and share in a particular way

[11:47] and I'm not particularly interested in

[11:49] doing it that way myself.

[11:52] But I'm always almost surprised at how

[11:55] some people can find

[11:57] Bhakti and find Kirtan.

[11:59] >> I remember Nam once said to me that

[12:01] sharing Bhakti is one long heartache.

[12:05] >> Yeah.

[12:06] >> Meaning that you would share

[12:09] and bring, you know, and then somebody's

[12:12] in and it's great and you get to know

[12:13] them and then they'll just leave.

[12:15] >> Yeah.

[12:16] >> The heartache of that.

[12:18] >> You can you can easily see someone as

[12:19] like a project.

[12:20] >> Yeah.

[12:21] >> Like this person is like ah they're so

[12:24] they're going to love this, I know it

[12:25] and then you kind of invest so much time

[12:27] and energy

[12:28] for them to make great progress only one

[12:30] day they just kind of disappear and

[12:32] you're like, "Oh."

[12:33] But I think

[12:35] >> Then maybe you also have to question

[12:36] whether or not you were attached to a

[12:38] certain outcome.

[12:39] >> Exactly. Was it really about them?

[12:41] >> Mhm.

[12:42] >> Was it really

[12:42] >> Was it really about

[12:43] >> Was it really about them and the journey

[12:44] that Krishna has planned for them or was

[12:46] it really about you being a part of that

[12:48] journey

[12:49] for them and I think

[12:51] sharing sharing Krishna with others is

[12:53] so much more than just like helping

[12:55] someone on their path. It's also I feel

[12:58] one of the most powerful things is just

[12:59] being a good exemplar yourself.

[13:01] >> Mhm.

[13:02] >> Like we radiate so much

[13:05] great energy

[13:07] when we just focus on ourselves.

[13:09] >> So how about this? How about

[13:12] questioning

[13:15] this whole notion of

[13:16] bringing people to Krishna consciousness

[13:19] or that are

[13:20] So maybe what we should just be focused

[13:23] on is are we raising consciousness

[13:27] with people around us.

[13:29] And does it then matter whether they go

[13:31] on a Krishna conscious path or any other

[13:33] spiritual path? So, if they disappear

[13:36] but stay on a spiritual path, isn't that

[13:38] a good thing?

[13:39] >> Yeah.

[13:41] >> And not a headache, [clears throat]

[13:42] actually.

[13:42] >> Yeah.

[13:43] I think we can't we can't predict or

[13:47] expect everyone to go the full 100

[13:49] yards,

[13:51] right, in one direction.

[13:53] >> But there's also in in that statement

[13:55] there's this presumption that that is

[13:58] the ultimate like destination. Whereas

[14:01] for some people maybe it's not in this

[14:03] lifetime.

[14:04] >> And then yeah, that's what I mean is

[14:05] that we can't expect people to go 100

[14:07] yards in this direction.

[14:08] >> Mhm.

[14:09] >> Like you don't know we don't know what

[14:11] We don't really know someone's

[14:12] consciousness deep enough to really

[14:15] know what's actually right for them.

[14:16] >> Mhm.

[14:17] >> We only have the opportunity to try,

[14:19] right?

[14:20] Here's an opportunity.

[14:21] >> Yeah.

[14:22] >> And then

[14:23] people have their own decisions. You

[14:25] can't force love like what like what you

[14:26] said about it. You can't force someone

[14:27] to drink drink from the well. You can't

[14:29] force someone to love anything.

[14:31] >> Yeah.

[14:32] >> And if you did then it doesn't become

[14:33] love anymore.

[14:35] >> Yeah.

[14:36] I mean

[14:37] I can only speak personally on this

[14:39] point, but I try to see that whatever

[14:41] devotional service has been gifted and

[14:44] and it is really a gift. It's not

[14:46] something that I'm manufacturing. It's a

[14:47] gift. Cuz you can try and try and try

[14:49] and still not be gifted any devotionals.

[14:51] So, any devotional service I've been

[14:53] given to gifted that allows me to

[14:56] facilitate people's journey.

[14:59] I genuinely see it as most of the time

[15:02] anyway, I still do get of course false

[15:04] ego attachment to it. But I do genuinely

[15:06] see it as um

[15:08] uh this is for my purification.

[15:11] Like there may be a thousand people in a

[15:13] concert hall,

[15:15] but I've genuinely

[15:17] often seen it uh apart from the first

[15:19] time. The first time I was extremely

[15:20] worried and nervous and self-conscious

[15:22] and full of my own self.

[15:25] But more and more I've noticed that this

[15:27] is really for me. It's for for me to to

[15:30] cry out to God.

[15:32] And uh

[15:34] as a result, if it helps other people,

[15:36] great, but I know that that was not me

[15:38] that did that. That was the name of

[15:39] Krishna that did that. And I think as um

[15:43] if you're if you're listening to this as

[15:44] someone that wants to share bhakti with

[15:46] friends and family,

[15:48] that my honest encouragement would be to

[15:50] try and go deep yourself in your

[15:52] relationship with God

[15:54] and see every service, even if it's

[15:57] outwardly seen as like a preaching

[15:59] service, see it still as a chance for

[16:01] you to just basically tell

[16:03] divinity that you love. Like tell

[16:05] Krishna you love him.

[16:07] That's what service is for me.

[16:09] >> I I want to flip something here.

[16:10] >> Here we go.

[16:11] >> How healed do you need to be

[16:13] to be able to heal other people?

[16:15] So I

[16:17] how spiritual how much progress do you

[16:19] do you have to make

[16:22] um to be considered like, "Okay, now I'm

[16:24] in a position where I can really share

[16:25] with others

[16:27] um whom want to receive it essentially?"

[16:30] >> If you look at the example of Srila

[16:32] Prabhupada, you would say

[16:34] both. Like he was sharing even when

[16:38] I mean, he's a different category cuz I

[16:39] feel like his entire life is an is like

[16:42] a divine lila.

[16:44] But okay, if we try and dissect it a

[16:46] little bit materially, you look at his

[16:49] early days of sharing

[16:50] and

[16:52] it I mean, forgive me if it sounds rude,

[16:54] but it was a bit of a failure.

[16:57] You think about, you know, if if you've

[16:58] read about the his his life, you see how

[17:01] he tried to create this league of

[17:03] devotees

[17:04] in Jhansi, in India, and it just didn't

[17:07] work.

[17:08] And one would say that maybe he hadn't

[17:10] done the internal work cuz years later,

[17:13] when he spent

[17:14] so long in Vrindavan, deeply absorbing

[17:16] himself, And he then goes at the age of

[17:19] 66, I think it was. 66 years 65 years

[17:23] old. And reaches America. He's full of

[17:26] bhakti shakti.

[17:28] And so it's the quiet

[17:30] introspective

[17:32] unseen devotional service that he did

[17:36] that perhaps powered

[17:39] an entire movement and continues to do

[17:40] so.

[17:42] >> I think it's also a redirection of where

[17:45] we need to

[17:45] >> serve.

[17:46] >> Yeah.

[17:46] >> So in in Srila Prabhupada's case

[17:48] obviously he's a

[17:49] pure devotee who's completely being

[17:51] directed by Krishna. So

[17:52] >> Yeah.

[17:53] >> him making efforts in New Delhi that's

[17:55] just not Krishna's plan for him.

[17:57] >> Right.

[17:58] >> Right. And it's just a redirection of

[17:59] energy and approach.

[18:02] So I think

[18:04] I I I just I just have a

[18:06] I have a real trouble

[18:09] with the concept of quote unquote

[18:12] preaching.

[18:14] I think I think as a as a term because

[18:19] I think it's more of an element about

[18:21] being more compassionate rather than

[18:24] do more preaching.

[18:25] >> Mhm.

[18:27] >> Because

[18:28] if you truly want to share bhakti with

[18:30] other people, it has to be done from a

[18:32] space of compassion and care.

[18:34] And then you're a lot more attentive to

[18:36] the details

[18:38] to the degree someone wants it. Do they

[18:39] even want it?

[18:40] >> Mhm.

[18:41] >> Like why would you impress something on

[18:42] someone who just clearly is just

[18:44] rejecting it? Is You're more sensitive

[18:46] to the approach of sharing and and

[18:47] knowing what that person needs, wants,

[18:50] if they even want it.

[18:52] Um

[18:55] and I think

[18:57] it's it's

[18:58] if if you really care about others, you

[19:00] have to care about yourself.

[19:02] >> Yeah. I also think this touches on

[19:06] the idea that often when in the initial

[19:09] stages when somebody maybe is a bit

[19:11] fanatical

[19:12] it comes from this place I now know

[19:15] better than you.

[19:16] >> Mhm.

[19:16] >> Let me share with you

[19:19] this amazing thing I have discovered.

[19:22] And of course it can come from a good

[19:23] place of going, "Oh my god, this is

[19:25] amazing. I want you to also feel this."

[19:28] But there's an element there's like an

[19:30] energy in that of

[19:32] I'm now a little bit more elevated than

[19:34] you.

[19:35] >> Yeah.

[19:36] It's a fine line, isn't it? It's a fine

[19:37] line between inspiring

[19:40] and just being irritating.

[19:42] >> Yeah.

[19:43] >> It's a really fine line.

[19:45] Now, I wanted to get your take on

[19:48] cuz I knew that you I know that you live

[19:50] the monk lifestyle.

[19:51] >> Mhm.

[19:53] >> And a big part of living in the ashram

[19:56] is that you go out and you spread the

[19:59] joy by distributing books.

[20:00] >> Mhm.

[20:01] >> And um

[20:03] yeah, I just wanted to get your take on

[20:05] cuz you said like you know you find it

[20:07] difficult to to sit with the term

[20:08] preaching.

[20:09] >> Mhm.

[20:10] >> I think that most people would see that

[20:12] as preaching.

[20:13] >> Mhm.

[20:13] >> And like how do we A

[20:16] view that from a mature perspective and

[20:18] what's your take on it? And B

[20:20] um

[20:21] I would say I would I would want to know

[20:23] from you, do you think that there needs

[20:24] to be some sort of

[20:26] um how can we change that perception?

[20:28] I'm I'm just trying to understand it.

[20:29] >> Yeah, it's a good point. So I'll I'll go

[20:31] back to um So one of my mentors in the

[20:34] ashram

[20:36] who has been

[20:37] doing this act of distributing books,

[20:39] speaking to people all across the

[20:41] country or across Europe.

[20:43] And he said to me

[20:44] uh this distribution of books

[20:47] it's not preaching.

[20:48] It's just sadhana.

[20:52] He said this point to me. He said,

[20:53] "We're just doing sadhana. Just like we

[20:55] wake up in the morning and we chant.

[20:57] This is just sadhana. This is an

[20:59] extension of our sadhana." I said, "What

[21:01] What do you mean?"

[21:02] >> [snorts]

[21:02] >> And he goes, "Every person I approach, I

[21:04] just treat it as a conversation with

[21:06] Krishna.

[21:07] Whatever Krishna is supposed to be

[21:09] teaching me about my character and what

[21:10] I need to develop,

[21:12] um I listen to the person I'm speaking

[21:13] to.

[21:14] So, he actually said, "We're not

[21:15] actually doing any preaching. We're just

[21:17] doing sadhana.

[21:18] When you approach every single person,

[21:20] your humility is getting shut down by

[21:21] people who are disinterested."

[21:23] Um

[21:25] if you think you've really

[21:27] uh won and you did you you spoken to

[21:29] someone really good and you've sort of,

[21:30] you know, really connected them about

[21:31] the philosophy and then they shut you

[21:32] down because that's Krishna just telling

[21:34] you, "Hey, calm down your ego."

[21:36] And then when you get out of the way of

[21:38] Krishna trying to provide opportunities,

[21:40] then then things work out.

[21:43] So, actually he said to me that this act

[21:45] is um

[21:46] is is not about preaching. It's not

[21:48] about them. It's purely just for your

[21:50] own purification

[21:52] and for your own self-realization.

[21:54] >> But do you think others would see it as

[21:56] preaching?

[21:57] >> Yeah.

[21:58] Yeah.

[21:58] >> And is there a way to change that

[21:59] perception?

[22:01] Don't think so, right?

[22:03] People will see it for what it is.

[22:05] >> only with depth will you understand that

[22:08] sharing of of Krishna bhakti with others

[22:10] is actually more about your own

[22:11] purification than it is about your

[22:13] qualification to change someone's heart.

[22:15] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

[22:16] >> And so

[22:18] and so yes, I think people do see it as

[22:21] preaching, very um

[22:23] evangelist kind of

[22:25] methods of of

[22:26] This word preaching has just got such a

[22:27] bad connotation to

[22:28] >> Yeah.

[22:29] >> But um

[22:32] I think I internally developed more

[22:33] during that time

[22:35] rather than affecting changing people's

[22:37] hearts.

[22:39] And I don't And I think that was an

[22:40] interesting realization.

[22:42] >> I've got this weird feeling and I could

[22:44] be completely off it, but I have a

[22:46] feeling that some people avoid me

[22:49] in the kind of wellness yoga kirtan

[22:51] space because they think

[22:54] I'm trying to preach them

[22:55] systematically.

[22:56] >> Mhm.

[22:58] >> I've just got this intuition that maybe

[23:00] people have got me the wrong way.

[23:03] And I think that that comes maybe with

[23:06] impersonalism and when you don't really

[23:08] know what is going on in that person's

[23:10] heart and mind. You know, it's easy to

[23:12] judge someone you don't know.

[23:15] And I think that that's that might also

[23:16] be the case here.

[23:18] That cuz you don't know really what's

[23:19] going on in the heart of that monk. And

[23:21] if you if you see someone on the street

[23:23] distributing books, sharing spiritual,

[23:26] you know, even what they called the

[23:28] Christian group that go out and they

[23:29] share on the streets?

[23:30] >> Mormons.

[23:31] >> Mormons.

[23:32] If you see them,

[23:34] I think 99% of people would avoid.

[23:37] >> Mhm.

[23:37] >> Because they're they're fearful that

[23:39] they're going to get into a heated

[23:40] discussion or something that's going to

[23:41] try and be a bit too preachy for them.

[23:43] But maybe you don't need to engage in a

[23:45] conversation, but you can just honor

[23:46] them by just like hand on heart giving

[23:49] them a nod rather than trying to ignore

[23:50] them.

[23:50] >> You know, some of the best conversations

[23:52] I've ever had on the streets of England

[23:53] is with Mormon.

[23:54] >> Really?

[23:55] >> Mormon missionaries. Like

[23:57] often from the US, they come over and

[23:59] they're just They're actually very sweet

[24:01] cuz they're in an unknown country and

[24:02] they're trying to talk to people about,

[24:03] you know, the good work.

[24:05] And I've had some very just lovely

[24:07] conversations with with

[24:09] Mormon like 20 21-year-olds kind of

[24:11] doing that thing.

[24:13] Um but I I think you raise a good point

[24:14] and you know what it is sometimes? I

[24:16] think when you practice a spiritual

[24:18] practice which you can share, something

[24:20] like kirtan, but it has quite deep

[24:22] philosophical roots,

[24:24] quite deep philosophical grounding,

[24:26] um do's, don'ts, guidelines,

[24:31] that can feel like a threat to many

[24:33] people. What do you think, Stina? I

[24:34] don't know. When something's so loaded

[24:36] and it's not like

[24:40] it's it's the practice and then some.

[24:42] Like that's the full package, right? As

[24:45] opposed to

[24:48] separating things out.

[24:52] >> Yeah, people are going to make

[24:53] assumptions fast. Um we we you heard

[24:55] from Stina in a while. I'm going to turn

[24:57] in a different direction.

[24:58] >> Do you think that's why that it feels

[24:59] like a threat?

[25:02] Or do you think that it's

[25:04] the energy with which it's being

[25:06] presented?

[25:07] >> The latter.

[25:08] >> Or the way in which it's being

[25:09] presented?

[25:10] >> I think the latter for sure. Valid.

[25:11] Valid.

[25:12] Yeah, it's a valid point.

[25:15] >> Because I think so much

[25:19] in whether that horse is going to drink

[25:21] the water is about how it's being

[25:23] presented.

[25:25] >> Mhm.

[25:25] >> Like if you drag the horse down and

[25:28] you're like, "You are going to drink the

[25:29] water." That horse is not going to drink

[25:31] water. [laughter]

[25:32] >> Yeah. I'm actually it's it's really

[25:35] funny this thing with the water. Um my

[25:37] dog has been quite unwell and one of the

[25:39] things that happened was he was refusing

[25:41] food and water for a while. He'd

[25:42] basically given up. And then

[25:45] I one day I got so like, "You must drink

[25:48] because you're going to die." And then I

[25:50] sort of stopped myself and I was like,

[25:52] "This is the most unspiritual thing I've

[25:53] done in a really long time." Because if

[25:56] he doesn't want to live, I should just

[25:57] allow him whatever. And then I just had

[26:00] this quiet conversation with him. I was

[26:02] like, "If you don't drink, you know,

[26:04] this is like the end of this, but but I

[26:06] accept that." And then of course he

[26:08] walked over and drank straight away.

[26:10] >> [laughter]

[26:12] >> Yeah.

[26:12] >> That's beautiful.

[26:13] >> Mhm.

[26:15] >> I I think there's a lot to be said in

[26:18] rather than be missionary about yourself

[26:21] um rather than others.

[26:22] >> Yeah.

[26:23] >> You are the project.

[26:24] >> Mhm.

[26:25] >> I I really believe if if you really

[26:27] focus on developing yourself

[26:28] spiritually, then that energy just

[26:30] radiates and people want to know.

[26:33] Like if you look at a lot of, you know,

[26:35] enlightened people, you know, very

[26:37] strong spiritual individuals,

[26:39] they radiate attraction. They radiate

[26:41] people wanting to understand. They

[26:43] radiate the right people also.

[26:45] Right? Just by being your truest, most

[26:47] authentic, spiritually powerful self, I

[26:48] think

[26:49] has huge waves and impact.

[26:52] >> I just up the Gita.

[26:53] >> Yeah.

[26:54] >> And I mean it's bang on the money.

[26:57] Uh we're reading from chapter 3, verse

[26:59] number 26. Here's the translation for

[27:01] you.

[27:02] So as not to disrupt the minds of

[27:04] ignorant men attached to the fruits of

[27:06] results of prescribed duties,

[27:09] a learned person should not induce them

[27:12] to stop work.

[27:14] Rather by working in a spirit of

[27:16] devotion,

[27:18] he should engage them in all sorts of

[27:19] activities for the gradual development

[27:21] of Krishna consciousness.

[27:24] And uh I think it really highlights this

[27:26] point of not making them the project.

[27:29] >> Mhm.

[27:30] >> A learned person should not induce them

[27:32] to stop work. Like, don't don't stop

[27:33] everything and give up and move to the

[27:35] forest and become a forest dweller and

[27:37] like wear robes and join me. Join me.

[27:39] You must join the mission.

[27:41] Um but rather by working in a spirit of

[27:43] devotion,

[27:45] and keep and note the word is must. It's

[27:47] this this no like inducing.

[27:49] Uh rather by working in a spirit of

[27:51] devotion, you should engage them in all

[27:53] sorts of activities for the gradual

[27:55] development of Krishna consciousness.

[27:57] All sorts of activities.

[27:59] >> Mhm.

[28:00] >> Yeah.

[28:00] >> You know when George Harrison first met

[28:02] Srila Prabhupada, apparently he was just

[28:04] like ready to

[28:05] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[28:06] >> give it all up and move into the temple

[28:08] and wear orange. And And Srila

[28:09] Prabhupada was like, "No, that is not,

[28:11] you know, where you should just continue

[28:14] what you're doing."

[28:15] >> Yeah.

[28:16] >> And And share.

[28:20] >> Yeah.

[28:20] >> That way.

[28:22] >> You know, there's an awesome interesting

[28:23] thing. So it's like when we're talking

[28:25] about when someone gets really excited

[28:27] about spiritual path and they try to

[28:28] tell others about it and someone uh

[28:31] perhaps doesn't share share the same

[28:33] enthusiasm, so that individual feels

[28:35] personally attacked by that whole thing.

[28:37] Cuz there's a lot of attachment to this

[28:39] is my thing and I it is really cool.

[28:41] Verify that. Validate that, please. Do

[28:43] you know? And like, you know, and And

[28:45] like not what you you don't get what I'm

[28:48] seeing You don't see what I'm seeing

[28:49] here. You're not experiencing what I'm

[28:50] experiencing here. Why do I feel so

[28:52] hurt?

[28:53] >> Yeah.

[28:53] >> I think that's that maturity. It also

[28:55] takes maturity. It takes time to Roots.

[28:57] I think

[28:58] >> Exactly. It's about having, yeah, you're

[28:59] so grounded in your own practice that it

[29:01] doesn't really matter whether other

[29:03] people around you approve of it

[29:05] >> Yeah.

[29:05] >> or take to it or agree with you.

[29:08] >> Yeah.

[29:08] >> Yeah.

[29:09] >> The verse even starts in na buddhibhi

[29:12] dam janayet, which means so as not to

[29:14] disrupt the minds.

[29:16] >> Mhm.

[29:17] >> That you don't want to disturb people

[29:21] by sharing.

[29:24] And I think that Okay, we bring it back

[29:25] full circle to friends and family, our

[29:27] nearest and dearest.

[29:29] When have we wanted to do anything that

[29:31] we love to show them love by disturbing

[29:33] them?

[29:35] We don't show love by disturbing people.

[29:39] Like, I'm just thinking about my aunties

[29:40] and uncles who

[29:43] Ah, [sighs] they're close, but like

[29:44] they're not quite there yet with the

[29:46] whole Krishna bhakti thing.

[29:48] I think the worst thing I could do is to

[29:50] disturb their mind by giving them

[29:51] something a bit too harsh, bit too soon.

[29:54] Bit too harsh or a bit too soon, I

[29:55] should say.

[29:57] >> So, I will challenge this because I

[29:58] think sometimes love does look like

[30:01] disturbing the mind of others and

[30:04] setting boundaries and disagreeing and

[30:08] you know, it's like otherwise you're

[30:09] just in codependency

[30:11] where you're pleasing

[30:13] >> Mhm.

[30:13] >> all the time. So, sometimes, you know,

[30:15] there's an expression tough love.

[30:16] >> Mhm.

[30:18] >> And

[30:19] yeah.

[30:20] >> I just don't think it works often.

[30:23] >> But I think also the way that Krishna

[30:24] loves us is not always

[30:26] >> Yeah, it's not always

[30:27] >> Oh, yeah. Talk about Kaliya. Talk about

[30:30] Putana. Talk about

[30:32] >> Rose and ducks, right? It's um And I

[30:34] think this is why like for the elevated

[30:36] soul, they're able to

[30:38] It's so It's very interesting, right?

[30:39] They say that there's three levels to a

[30:41] devotee. They say the base level is a a

[30:44] kanishtha who only sees Krishna in the

[30:46] temple. Their faith is weak, but also

[30:49] their level of knowledge is weak.

[30:51] >> Yeah.

[30:52] >> Then you have what is called as the

[30:53] madhyam, the intermediate devotee, who

[30:57] um

[30:58] faith is strong and knowledge

[31:01] is is is strong, but sometimes falters,

[31:04] but it says that a madhyam devotee is

[31:06] able to properly discriminate between

[31:08] how people what is best for someone.

[31:11] Uh and and how they should receive

[31:12] Krishna.

[31:13] And Srila Prabhupada often says to to

[31:15] become a teacher of bhakti, one must try

[31:17] to attain the the madhyam platform at

[31:19] least, because they have faith and they

[31:21] have

[31:22] knowledge enough to discriminate

[31:23] appropriately.

[31:25] Whereas the um

[31:27] uttama, the the advanced devotee,

[31:30] they have no discrimination.

[31:32] Because they just see the soul in

[31:33] everyone. And so they just give

[31:35] unconditionally.

[31:36] But this element of discrimination

[31:39] or intelligent discrimination to know I

[31:41] I know I'm elevated enough to see where

[31:44] your consciousness is at and therefore

[31:47] share with you to that to that degree.

[31:48] And I think we struggle cuz we think we

[31:50] know, we think we're at that madhyam

[31:51] level, but a lot of the time we're just

[31:53] projecting our own

[31:55] our own, you know, internal insecurities

[31:58] or whatever it may be on someone else.

[31:59] >> Well, I also think sometimes I find in

[32:01] my yoga classes, for example, if I I try

[32:04] to share some bhakti philosophy or

[32:06] principles or and then once in a while I

[32:09] sort of stumble a bit over my own words

[32:11] and I have this realization I was like,

[32:13] actually I haven't really understood

[32:14] this. And there I am sitting on the mat

[32:16] like the teacher.

[32:17] >> [laughter]

[32:18] >> And then it comes to me to sort of like,

[32:19] actually I couldn't explain that in

[32:22] layman terms.

[32:23] >> Yeah.

[32:23] >> And that was like that for me being a

[32:25] lawyer, that I always knew if I couldn't

[32:27] explain something super simple, it meant

[32:30] I hadn't really understood it.

[32:31] >> Yeah.

[32:32] >> And I think it's like that with our

[32:34] philosophy as as

[32:36] >> The other piece in there is like I'm

[32:38] just thinking about my relationship with

[32:39] my spiritual teacher, and I know you

[32:41] said that you don't see people as

[32:42] projects.

[32:44] I like to think that my spiritual

[32:45] teacher is seeing me as not just a

[32:48] one-year, 10-year project, not just a

[32:51] lifetime project, but seeing me from

[32:53] like this kind of grand overview, like a

[32:55] bird's-eye view of the multiple amounts

[32:57] of lifetimes that I've had.

[32:59] And in that way is not trying to force

[33:02] me and pigeonhole me to be exactly the

[33:06] way I I need to be, but just being

[33:08] patient with me. Like every time I've

[33:10] had an interaction with my guru, it's

[33:12] always been very lovingly directional.

[33:15] It's always been very sensitive, very

[33:18] honoring of where I'm at, but also

[33:20] giving a slight nudge and just be like

[33:22] now you need you need to do this. Like

[33:24] just like

[33:25] giving a kind of hint that I need to

[33:28] transform my way of thinking or my way

[33:30] of serving. And so I think with um

[33:34] Yeah, can we enter into a bird's-eye

[33:37] view of other people as well? Like

[33:38] rather than trying to make them the

[33:40] perfect, you know, fit

[33:42] like the Krishna in this lifetime, can

[33:45] we see it as they may never come in that

[33:47] in this lifetime and that's okay, and I

[33:49] may never get there myself.

[33:51] >> Mhm.

[33:51] >> Like I

[33:52] >> [laughter]

[33:52] >> might be really off the mark.

[33:54] >> Yeah, we're not all so high and mighty

[33:56] that we're going to make it in this

[33:57] >> Yeah.

[33:57] >> [laughter]

[33:59] >> Come on.

[33:59] >> Who do we think we are?

[34:01] >> What's that verse Sri Guru Charanam?

[34:03] There's this uh he's taken me from the

[34:06] uh

[34:07] Oh, no, that's uh sorry. Om

[34:09] agyanatimirdhasya gyananjana shalakaya

[34:11] chakshurunmilitam yena tasmai shri

[34:14] gurave namah. That my spiritual

[34:15] teacher's taken me from this like dark

[34:19] dark darkness and given me the the

[34:22] light the torchlight of knowledge and

[34:25] yeah, filled my heart with

[34:27] transcendental knowledge. It It takes

[34:29] time. It's like that can't happen

[34:30] immediately, but that's the role of a

[34:32] teacher, a preacher, a giver, a sharer,

[34:35] inspirer. Bhakti is it's

[34:37] being patient with others.

[34:40] And being patient knowing that you're

[34:41] also quite you've got your ticket

[34:43] waiting in the waiting room of God for

[34:44] many lifetimes, too.

[34:46] So, it'll take time.

[34:48] Um should we read the lila?

[34:51] >> Let's read the lila.

[34:52] >> All right. So, prepared we have in this

[34:55] episode of Assault Steak a lila

[34:58] based on the life of Prahlad and

[35:01] Hiranyakashipu.

[35:03] And by the way, at first glance, this

[35:05] story might seem like a story about

[35:07] persecution, especially if you know it,

[35:10] then you might see it as a story of

[35:12] persecution and torture of Prahlad by

[35:15] his father Hiranyakashipu. But actually,

[35:17] I think it's a story about loving

[35:19] someone who refuses to change.

[35:23] Could be seen like that. Loving someone

[35:25] who refuses to change.

[35:27] Just think about that for a second.

[35:28] Loving someone who refuses to change.

[35:30] Prahlad never stops to talking about

[35:32] Krishna in his childhood.

[35:35] But he also never argues.

[35:38] He never manipulates. He never shames

[35:41] Hiranyakashipu. He never condemns his

[35:43] father.

[35:45] He never says, "You're going to hell."

[35:50] Instead, Prahlad

[35:52] he only answers when he's asked.

[35:55] He remains very peaceful. Prahlad

[35:57] remains very respectful throughout his

[36:00] interactions with his father.

[36:03] And he never compromises his truth.

[36:08] He never loses compassion.

[36:10] Even when his father repeatedly tries to

[36:13] hurt him and even more extremely tries

[36:16] to kill him.

[36:17] Then comes this extraordinary ending in

[36:19] the story

[36:21] when Hiranyakashipu,

[36:23] he challenges Prahlad and he says, "Is

[36:25] your God everywhere?"

[36:27] And Prahlad says, "Yes." And said, is he

[36:29] even in this pillar?

[36:31] He said, yes, my father, he's he's in

[36:33] the pillar. And Hiranyakashipu draws a

[36:35] weapon and strikes the pillar and out

[36:37] comes Narasimha Dev, this half-man,

[36:39] half-lion form of God.

[36:41] And when Narasimha Dev kills

[36:43] Hiranyakashipu,

[36:45] Prahlada doesn't celebrate.

[36:48] He prays.

[36:49] What does he pray, you ask?

[36:52] For his father.

[36:53] He prays for his dad.

[36:56] Not for revenge,

[36:58] not for justice,

[37:00] not so he can do a victory lap,

[37:02] but he prays for his father to get some

[37:05] mercy from God.

[37:07] And I think

[37:09] where this will connect with what we're

[37:10] talking about is that

[37:12] Prahlada, yes, never made his father

[37:14] into a project.

[37:17] He made him an object of compassion. And

[37:20] that's, I mean, incredibly moving that

[37:23] Prahlada could If Prahlada could pray

[37:25] for the man that And not just the man,

[37:27] if he could pray for the dad who tried

[37:29] to kill him, can I love my mom? Or can I

[37:32] love my sister? Can I love my neighbor?

[37:35] Can I love my friend

[37:37] who simply doesn't want to come to the

[37:38] kirtan?

[37:41] >> That's a radical ask, kirtan.

[37:42] >> Hey.

[37:42] >> [laughter]

[37:44] >> I mean, it's humbling, no? It's

[37:45] humbling.

[37:46] If I if If Prahlada can pray for his

[37:48] father who's trying to kill him,

[37:50] can I just be compassionate to that dear

[37:53] friend or that dear family member in our

[37:55] life who doesn't want to come to kirtan,

[37:57] doesn't want to Can Can I just be loving

[37:59] of that? Can I be compassionate on that?

[38:02] It's very humbling, I think. Prahlada,

[38:04] what what a person, huh? What a

[38:05] personality.

[38:06] >> Mhm.

[38:08] >> Hot takes.

[38:10] One-liner for you, what's really struck

[38:12] you from this conversation?

[38:14] >> The mission is me, not them.

[38:16] >> Mhm.

[38:18] >> Can't drop the mic, but yeah, mic drop.

[38:21] >> Invite, don't convince.

[38:23] >> Mhm.

[38:24] I can't do it in like that one sutra

[38:26] line manner. Um

[38:28] for me it would be

[38:30] yeah, can I

[38:32] see from the eyes of Prahlad. That for

[38:33] me was quite striking, quite moving.

[38:36] If Prahlad and Haridas Thakur can be

[38:39] compassionate upon their persecutors,

[38:41] can't I just be compassionate about

[38:43] someone who doesn't want to come to

[38:45] kirtan?

[38:48] Bonus content for you, the ball is back.

[38:52] Seems like we have only got one type of

[38:53] game right now. I promise there'll be

[38:54] more.

[38:56] But let's see what there is.

[38:57] All right, let's see. What is Maya,

[39:00] illusion, explained to a five-year-old

[39:03] in one sentence?

[39:07] My kid's five, okay.

[39:09] What would I say to him?

[39:13] Anything that is not Krishna is Maya.

[39:21] >> [laughter]

[39:25] [gasps]

[39:27] >> Okay.

[39:28] >> Here we go.

[39:30] Explain karma in 20 seconds.

[39:34] >> We'll tell you when to go. Thank you.

[39:36] 1

[39:37] 2 3 go.

[39:39] >> Do good, get good. Do bad, get bad. Do

[39:42] spiritual, no good and bad. There you

[39:45] go.

[39:46] Done.

[39:47] Oh man, that was a commercial. The

[39:49] pressure's on, you know.

[39:53] >> Oh, who is a bhakti saint or teacher you

[39:56] would love to have dinner with?

[39:58] >> Mhm.

[39:59] >> I mean

[40:01] Oh, it's a hard one.

[40:03] It would either have to be Srila

[40:05] Prabhupada, which I'm probably going to

[40:07] land on.

[40:09] Yeah, actually that's what I'm going to

[40:10] say.

[40:11] >> No, no, only hear the all. I want to

[40:12] hear the all.

[40:13] >> No, that is a secret. It's a secret.

[40:17] >> Should tell us when the camera stop

[40:18] rolling.

[40:19] Maybe why don't you guys put it in the

[40:20] comment section below what answers to

[40:22] our questions. How would you What the

[40:24] Hold on, let's read you the questions

[40:25] one more time so you can land them

[40:27] again. Mine was

[40:29] What is Maya or illusion in one sentence

[40:32] explain to a 5-year-old? Yours was?

[40:34] >> Explain karma in 20 seconds.

[40:37] >> And yours?

[40:39] >> Who is a back to saying the teacher you

[40:41] love to have dinner with?

[40:44] >> Leave us a comment in this comment

[40:45] section below. Thank you all so much for

[40:47] watching. Appreciate you all being here.

[40:48] We love you very much even though we

[40:50] cannot see you. I'm imagining all of you

[40:52] listening to this

[40:52] >> [music]

[40:53] >> um with a smile, grateful.

[40:56] And we're grateful that you are here

[40:58] with us.

[40:58] >> [music]

[40:58] >> And uh thank you so much for listening

[41:00] to this episode.

[41:01] Like and subscribe. Send it to a friend.

[41:04] Um but don't do it in a harsh way, yeah?

[41:06] Do it in a kind way. Maybe you want to

[41:08] send it with an apology saying, "I

[41:10] listened to this episode and I realized

[41:12] I need to be more grateful for what we

[41:13] have in our friendship and our

[41:14] connection than trying to convert you to

[41:16] something that you maybe uh

[41:18] you know, that I was immature about.

[41:20] Maybe you want to do it in that way.

[41:21] >> [music]

[41:22] >> Um but sending you lots of love. Thank

[41:23] you so much for being here. See you on

[41:24] the next episode. For soul's sake,

[41:27] adieu, ball.

Radhika Das
ArtistRadhika Das

London-born kirtan singer sharing the devotional practice of Bhakti mantra meditation with audiences worldwide.

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Spiritual-growthBhakti-pathFamily-relationshipsEgo-spiritualityKrishna-consciousness

Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

Focus on your own transformation rather than trying to change others. Share when asked, and from a place of genuine invitation rather than urgency. The more you embody your practice through quiet presence and peace, the more naturally attractive it becomes to those around you without needing to convince anyone.
What works for your consciousness may not be the path someone else needs. You cannot force spiritual awakening through argument or persuasion. Sometimes the most loving thing is to honor their journey while living yours authentically—they may find their own way if they see it working in your actual life.
Utsaha mayi is 'immature enthusiasm'—the early stage of spiritual practice when you feel revolutionary insight and want everyone to follow your path. It's not wrong, but when it becomes the fuel for converting others, it carries a subtle energy of superiority. As your understanding deepens, you develop spaciousness to let others disagree.
Not only can you—you should. The actual work of spiritual practice is your own transformation, not converting others. Sharing spiritual knowledge is more about your own purification than your ability to change someone's heart. When you release the need to save them, you radiate far more genuine spiritual energy.
Prahlad loves his father, Hiranyakashipu, even though his father refuses to embrace devotion and tries to force his own worldview on his son. Rather than trying to convert his father, Prahlad prays for his father's spiritual welfare. The lesson: genuine love honors another's freedom, even when they reject your path.
Check your energy. If you feel urgency to change them, a sense that you know better, or need their validation of your path, ego is present. True spiritual sharing comes from spaciousness—the freedom to invite without needing them to accept, to offer without requiring conversion.
Inspiring someone means living your truth so fully that its benefits become visible and attractive—without agenda. Imposing means using argument, urgency, or the subtle message that they're wrong or incomplete if they don't follow you. One person remains free; in the other, they've been positioned as broken.
No—it's the opposite. When you stop trying to fix everyone else and commit to your own transformation, you become far more useful to others. You radiate genuine peace and presence instead of the agenda of conversion. This natural magnetism is far more powerful than any amount of preaching.

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