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Inspiration

What is Sikhism? Core Beliefsand Spiritual Practices Explained

Nanak Naam
Nanak Naam
Apr 29, 2022
9 min read

Sikhism, as taught by Guru Nanak and explained by spiritual teacher Satpal Singh, is fundamentally a philosophy of oneness and personal transformation—not merely a Sunday religion. It reframes the concept of God from an external authority figure to an intrinsic aspect of consciousness. Core practices include meditation, living with humility (ego dissolution), karma awareness, and the Khalsa code embodied in the five K's. Modern Sikhs often understand the outer ritual without grasping the inner spiritual psychology that Sikhism really demands: how you interact with stress, conflict, and desire determines your spiritual development.

Read · 11 sections

What Is Sikhism vs. What Most Sikhs Actually Practice?

Satpal Singh opens the conversation by acknowledging a widespread gap: 99% of practicing Sikhs have attended gurdwaras (Sikh temples) their entire lives and observe religious festivals without understanding the spiritual philosophy underneath. Growing up in a typical Punjabi Sikh family, he was told "this is our religion" but never questioned why or what it meant for personal transformation. Spirituality was treated as an add-on—something you did on Sunday, then shelved for the working week.

This fragmentation between religious observance and spiritual integration is the core problem Satpal identifies. True Sikhism, he argues, is a mindset that must pervade every interaction: how you handle your boss's unreasonable demands, how you respond when plans fall apart, how you relate to people who disappoint you. Religion, in the traditional sense, is separate from life. Spirituality, in the Sikh sense, is life itself—the lens through which you see and act.

Ranveer Allahbadia frames the practical need: modern life demands speed, power, and relentless productivity. Running at that pace depletes your energy. Spiritual practice—meditation, prayer, philosophy—functions as a "petrol pump for your mind, body, and soul." It's not an escape from efficiency; it's the mechanism that sustains it.

What Does Sikhism Mean by "God" and "Oneness"?

The dominant image of God in Western and popular religiosity is an old man with a white beard sitting in the clouds—an impersonal authority figure out there. By age thirteen, most young people reject this: they've never heard God speak, never seen evidence, and reasonably conclude they're atheist.

Guru Nanak's revolutionary message was not "there is one God instead of many" (though that's how most Sikhs interpret it). Rather, it was oneness—a non-dual vision where the boundary between subject and object, self and other, matter and spirit collapses.

Satpal explains this through deconstruction: Did you make your body? No. Did you choose your name? No. Did you pick your religion, your genes, your talents? All given. Strip away every attribute you claim as "me"—and what remains? The deeper truth is that all the things you call "me" have nothing to do with you in the way you imagine "you." This realization is the foundation of Sikh philosophy.

The implication: if you didn't create or choose the body-mind-ego bundle you inhabit, then the essential "you"—the witnessing awareness—is not personal in the way you thought. And if that's true for you, it's true for everyone. All beings arise from and rest in the same source. That source is what Sikhism calls God—not a deity dispensing favors, but the ground of being itself, accessible through direct experience (meditation), not belief.

What Is NOT God? The Trap of Spiritual Bypass

Satpal makes a sharp distinction: everything is not God in a sentimental sense. Beginners often fall into the trap of saying "money is God, food is God, my family is God"—collapsing all distinctions and losing practical wisdom. If you treat a financial problem as "divine" and take no action, you suffer needlessly. If you see your greedy impulse as "God expressing itself," you rationalize vice as virtue.

Spiritual philosophy without wisdom becomes escapism. Yes, everything emerges from one source, but discernment is required. You must balance a non-dual understanding with practical action, moral discernment, and the willingness to say "no" to your own desires when they harm others. This is why Sikhism historically produced warriors and justice-seekers, not passive mystics.

Daily Spiritual Practices: Meditation and the Mantra

Satpal distinguishes between meditation (bringing the mind into stillness and presence) and mantra (repetitive spiritual sound or phrase). Many people conflate them. A mantra is not mystical chanting; it's using a specific phrase to anchor attention and reprogram thought patterns. The Sikh morning practice, Naam Japna (repeating God's name), serves this function—it's a practical mental discipline.

Meditation itself can be done anywhere: sitting formally, walking, even during routine activities. The practice is not about achieving a specific state or vision. Rather, it's about training your mind to remain present and aware rather than enslaved to compulsive thought. That skill—simple presence—then extends into work, relationships, and conflict.

For busy modern practitioners, even five or ten minutes daily creates measurable shifts in how you process stress and relate to others. The depth matters less than the consistency and the genuine intention to understand yourself.

Competition, Success, and Happiness: The Role of Ego

In competitive modern cultures, success is measured by comparison: you must be better than others, accumulate more, rank higher. Satpal identifies this as ego-driven and fundamentally unstable. When your happiness depends on being superior, you're always vulnerable—someone younger, faster, smarter will emerge, and your identity collapses.

The Sikh path inverts this. Rather than feeding the ego's hunger for supremacy, the goal is ego dissolution (what Sikhs call haumai transcendence). This is not annihilation of personality but release of the fictional self-image that requires constant validation.

True happiness, Satpal teaches, arises when you let go of the need to prove yourself. You can still excel—in fact, you likely will, because you're not wasting energy on defensiveness and insecurity. But success becomes a side effect of service and presence, not the purpose of living.

Karma and Reincarnation: How Actions Shape Consciousness

Sikhism teaches karma and reincarnation (punar-janm), but not as cosmic accounting or punishment. Rather, karma is the law of natural consequence. Every action and thought shapes your consciousness, your neural pathways, your predispositions. If you cultivate anger, you become an angry person; your next "birth" (your daily experience) is colored by that habit.

Rebirth isn't literally about getting a new body; it's about the constant renewal of your psychic state based on your choices. You can change the trajectory in this very life by changing how you act and perceive. Meditation and ethical living (honest work, service to others, humility) gradually purify habitual patterns and open you to deeper awareness.

The History of Sikhism and the Khalsa: Warrior Saints

Guru Nanak (1469–1539) founded Sikhism as a response to rigid caste divisions and ritualistic Hinduism and Islam of medieval India. His central message: all humans are equal before God, regardless of caste, gender, or birth. This was radical.

The tradition evolved through ten Gurus, each deepening and defending the path. By the time of Guru Gobind Singh (1666–1708), the Sikh community faced persecution from Mughal rulers. Guru Gobind Singh created the Khalsa (the "pure ones")—a collective of initiated Sikhs committed to spiritual practice and martial courage. He rejected pure monasticism: a true Sikh must be a warrior-saint, willing to fight tyranny while maintaining inner peace and devotion.

This militancy was not aggression but boundary-setting. Satpal emphasizes: when action comes from a place of peace and service to justice, it is spiritual. When it comes from anger or a desire to dominate, it is not—regardless of the form. The five K's (uncut hair, bracelet, short sword, comb, special undergarment) became visible markers of this commitment.

What Are the Five K's? Symbols of the Khalsa

The five K's—Kesh (uncut hair), Kangha (comb), Kara (steel bracelet), Kachhera (special undergarment), and Kirpan (curved sword)—are often misunderstood as arbitrary religious dress codes.

Satpal reframes them as psychological symbols and practices:

  • Kesh: Accepting what you're given rather than constantly altering appearance for ego gratification. It's surrender to natural form, a daily reminder of humility.
  • Kangha: Discipline and grooming—tending to yourself and your environment with care, even if no one is watching.
  • Kara: A steel bracelet symbolizing strength and unity. The round shape (no beginning, no end) represents eternity.
  • Kachhera: Modesty and restraint—a reminder that sexual impulse should be governed by respect and commitment, not appetite.
  • Kirpan: The willingness to defend truth and protect the vulnerable. It's a vow that you will not remain passive in the face of injustice.

Initiation into the Khalsa is voluntary—you must consciously choose to observe them. Any person from any background (caste, gender, religion) can become Sikh; there's no hereditary membership. This radical equality remains countercultural in South Asia.

Can You Ever Finish Learning About Spirituality?

Satpal answers directly: no. Spirituality is not a destination—it's a living inquiry. You can gain intellectual understanding of philosophy, but embodying it, refining it through experience, deepening your meditation—this is endless work. The Gurus themselves spent lifetimes in spiritual practice and teaching.

The hazard is thinking you've "got it." The moment you believe you've achieved enlightenment or mastered spirituality, your ego has co-opted the teaching. Humility—the recognition that there is always more to understand—is itself a spiritual practice.

Types of Meditation for Beginners and Practitioners

Satpal acknowledges that "meditation" can mean different things, and different approaches suit different temperaments:

  • Mantra meditation: Repeating a word or phrase (e.g., "Sat Nam" meaning "true identity") to anchor the mind and cultivate a specific quality.
  • Breath awareness: Following the natural rhythm of breathing, bringing attention back each time it wanders.
  • Open awareness: Sitting with no technique, simply observing thoughts, sensations, and the space between them—suitable for more experienced practitioners.
  • Active meditation: Bringing meditative awareness to walking, working, eating, or any repetitive activity. Mindfulness in motion.

The common thread: sustained, non-judgmental attention to the present moment. This trains your mind to rest in awareness rather than being hijacked by compulsive thinking. Over time, that capacity for presence—that peace—becomes more stable even during stressful events.

Where to Go From Here

If Sikhism interests you, begin with sitting in quiet for 10–20 minutes daily, following your breath or repeating a simple phrase like "Sat Nam." Read Guru Nanak's teachings (widely available in English translation). Visit a gurdwara and observe the community—Sikhs serve free meals to all visitors regardless of belief, embodying the principle of equality.

More importantly, notice where ego drives your choices: Do you compete to prove superiority? Do you avoid admitting mistakes? Do you judge others harshly? These are not moral failures; they're the natural expression of an unexamined identity. Meditation and ethical reflection gradually loosen that grip. You'll find that letting go of the need to be right, to be superior, to control outcomes actually makes you more effective and alive—not less.

The Sikh path is not about adopting Punjabi culture or wearing turbans (though some do). It's about understanding yourself as part of an infinite whole, acting with integrity and courage, and bringing that awareness into every moment of your day.

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Transcript

[0:00] Satpal Singh Bhai, welcome to The

[0:02] Ranveer Show. Such an honor having you

[0:04] on the show. I love the message that

[0:06] you're putting out in the world. I love

[0:08] the way you're a modern representation

[0:12] of the spiritual school of Sikhism. And

[0:16] for me this conversation is all about

[0:18] learning much more about Sikhism. For me

[0:20] this conversation is about learning

[0:22] about your journey. And for me this

[0:24] conversation is about just putting some

[0:26] goodness out there for the world to

[0:28] consume. So, welcome to the show, sir.

[0:31] So much for having me, Ranveer. It's a

[0:33] real pleasure. I've been following your

[0:35] content for quite a while and it's so

[0:38] inspirational how you've taken the

[0:41] younger generation on your own spiritual

[0:43] journey and how much you're exposing

[0:45] people to what it means to live a busy

[0:50] modern life but still have that

[0:52] spirituality at your core. So, it's a

[0:55] real honor for me to be on your show as

[0:56] well. I'm I'm I'm really inspired by the

[0:58] work that you do.

[0:59] No, the the admiration, the inspiration,

[1:02] the honor, it's it's all mutual. Trust

[1:04] me.

[1:05] But, you know, you mentioned something

[1:07] specific. You mentioned how it's

[1:08] important to have that spiritual core

[1:10] when you're going about your modern-day

[1:12] life. I feel modern-day life, especially

[1:14] considering where we are as a race of

[1:17] human beings, it's all about speed and

[1:20] pace and power to some degree. You know,

[1:22] you're supposed to kind of run at it

[1:24] with life. Be it your career, be it any

[1:26] kind of growth. Someone once told me

[1:28] that if you do want to run with speed

[1:31] and you do want to help other people,

[1:32] that means there's going to be a loss of

[1:34] energy from you and your mind and your

[1:36] body. And therefore, you need to gain

[1:38] that energy back from somewhere else.

[1:41] Think of it like a petrol pump for your

[1:44] mind and your body and your soul. So,

[1:47] that's how I look at spiritual learnings

[1:50] or even spiritual practices like

[1:51] meditation, like prayer. That's what all

[1:54] this is for me. Somewhere it is a

[1:55] practical selfish kind of intention in

[1:59] my heart.

[2:00] Absolutely. And I think what's really

[2:01] fascinating is bringing spirituality

[2:05] into every aspect of your life. Um

[2:08] I grew up where religion was really just

[2:11] something you did on a Sunday. You went

[2:13] to the Gurdwara, you went to the temple

[2:15] and then Monday to Saturday, you just

[2:18] get on with normal life. There's no part

[2:21] of of the spirituality which feeds into

[2:23] your normal life. That's how I was just

[2:24] brought up.

[2:25] Um where something was just a add-on.

[2:28] Religion was just something that you

[2:29] added on to your life. Whereas as I've

[2:32] grown up, I've begun to realize that

[2:34] actually if you begin to understand that

[2:36] spirituality is really just a mindset,

[2:40] then that mindset needs to be carried

[2:42] through into everything that you do. And

[2:44] more importantly, it's about how you

[2:46] interact with everything. How do you

[2:48] interact with stress? How do you

[2:49] interact with the pressures of your boss

[2:53] giving you too many things to do at

[2:55] work? How do you deal with things in

[2:57] life happening that don't go according

[2:59] to plan or people not acting in the way

[3:00] that you would like them to? All of that

[3:03] is spirituality to me. It's not really

[3:05] something to do with a a different

[3:06] religion or something that you just add

[3:08] on on a Sunday.

[3:10] Yeah, 100%. You know, even speaking

[3:13] about religions, I feel like every

[3:14] single religion in the world basically

[3:16] says the same things and it's probably

[3:18] interpreted differently. But, what every

[3:20] religion says is, you know, be a good

[3:22] person, help out others, help out your

[3:24] community, do the right thing.

[3:27] And while I know that your message is

[3:29] much more spiritual, for me this the

[3:31] selfish angle on this conversation is I

[3:33] want to learn about Sikhism deeper. So,

[3:36] for this conversation, just imagine I'm

[3:38] your younger brother who's just entered

[3:40] this world and teach me about Sikhism,

[3:42] Satpal Bhai. Like I would just love to

[3:45] know what it is for you specifically.

[3:47] You know, be it the stories related to

[3:49] Sikhism, be it what it stands for in the

[3:52] modern-day context. What is it for you?

[3:56] I think Sikhism has something that has

[3:59] massively

[4:01] transformed my own personal life. And

[4:04] everything that I talk about is very

[4:06] much based on something that I've

[4:08] experienced personally and I think

[4:09] that's the beauty of it. I grew up in

[4:12] quite a a normal Punjabi Sikh family

[4:16] and for me

[4:18] religion was something that I never

[4:20] questioned. My parents said that we we

[4:23] belong to this religion. I said, "Fine."

[4:25] You know, there is a God, fine. You

[4:26] know, you just have to learn, you know,

[4:28] go to your Punjabi class on a Sunday so

[4:29] you learn how to read

[4:31] your native language. Fine. I had no

[4:33] problem with all of those things and I

[4:35] never questioned it. I never had

[4:37] an issue with my own personal identity

[4:39] or anything like that.

[4:41] But, as I grew up and I started to learn

[4:45] that there was a really deeply personal

[4:48] aspect to it where it wasn't about just

[4:51] some religious facts that you had to

[4:54] learn and some actions that you had to

[4:57] perform, but it was really something to

[4:59] do with who you are and how you

[5:01] understand yourself. I began to

[5:03] understand it as a psychology and once I

[5:06] understood it as a mindset

[5:09] and once I began to practice meditation

[5:12] in myself, the impact that it had on my

[5:15] life was so huge that

[5:18] I became almost like this excited little

[5:20] kid. Like I had found some buried

[5:23] treasure and I just needed to tell

[5:24] everyone, "Hey,

[5:26] you've all been missing it. There's

[5:27] something amazing right here." So, in my

[5:30] own journey what I realized was

[5:32] 99% of the Sikhs that I knew had no idea

[5:36] of what the spiritual message was really

[5:38] about. They had no idea what their

[5:40] religion was about even though they had

[5:41] been attending all the religious

[5:44] festivities their whole life. And once I

[5:47] understood how it was really about

[5:49] personal transformation,

[5:51] I couldn't help but try and help other

[5:53] people. My whole motivation just became

[5:56] how do I go about and teach people what

[5:59] it means to have some God in your life,

[6:02] which is not some guy out there, but

[6:04] actually a a fundamental aspect of who

[6:06] you are. And I think this is where I was

[6:08] really motivated to go deeper into the

[6:12] philosophy of Sikhism, to go into what

[6:15] Guru Nanak, who is the founder of this

[6:16] tradition, was really talking about and

[6:19] to then figure out a way how does this

[6:21] apply to me and how does this apply to

[6:23] other people? And that's just been my

[6:24] whole motivation.

[6:26] So, what are some of those aspects? What

[6:28] are some of those philosophies? Like,

[6:30] you know, you said that 99% of

[6:32] practicing Sikhs may not know about the

[6:34] spiritual angles of it. Could you shed

[6:36] some light on those spiritual angles?

[6:38] Yeah, absolutely. I think the first

[6:40] thing I realized was this

[6:44] old way of thinking or my my immature

[6:46] way of thinking was that God was some

[6:50] guy out there who you just go to to pray

[6:53] for things. So, God was always an

[6:55] impersonal person being that was out

[6:58] there in the sky. You know, I like to

[7:00] think of it as an old man with a white

[7:01] beard sitting in the clouds. Your

[7:03] typical idea of what a God is. And what

[7:06] I was realizing was

[7:08] most youngsters completely rejected

[7:11] that. By the time you you reach the age

[7:12] of about 13, you know, I've some I've

[7:15] spoken to so many of them and they just

[7:16] they say that I'm an atheist. Because by

[7:18] the age of 13 they said, you know, the

[7:19] God that everyone keeps talking about, I

[7:21] haven't heard about it. It doesn't make

[7:23] any sense to me.

[7:24] And when I began to meditate and

[7:26] understand that

[7:29] there isn't a God out there

[7:32] or more accurately, the God that is out

[7:34] there is also in here. And so, the first

[7:38] message that Guru Nanak brought to the

[7:39] world was this message of oneness. And

[7:42] most Sikhs interpret that as there is

[7:44] one God. There isn't multiple gods,

[7:46] there's one God. But, the reality is

[7:48] oneness is something quite different to

[7:50] to one God. And where I began to

[7:53] understand it was

[7:54] this body mind, this thing that I call

[7:57] me, is actually not me.

[8:00] And as I began to understand,

[8:03] it made me realize that all the things

[8:05] that I call me

[8:07] are nothing to do with me. So, if you

[8:09] just take the example, let's look at

[8:10] this body.

[8:11] Did I make this body? And you say, "No,

[8:14] I didn't make this body. It was just

[8:16] given to me."

[8:17] Did I choose my own name? No, I didn't

[8:20] even choose my own name.

[8:22] Did I choose my religion? No, I didn't.

[8:24] So, what you begin to realize is all the

[8:26] things that you think is me, my

[8:28] identity,

[8:30] I began to realize none of these things

[8:32] are me. And so, it led me on this quest,

[8:33] "Well,

[8:34] is there really a me?" And the teachings

[8:37] of Guru Nanak made me understand that

[8:39] the idea of me

[8:41] is the cause of all my problems. And I

[8:44] was able to to reduce and simplify Guru

[8:48] Nanak's message into really a a message

[8:50] of oneness, which was

[8:52] that we don't know who we are.

[8:55] And who we think we are is making us

[8:57] miserable.

[8:59] And that was the big change in my life.

[9:01] That I think I am me and because I think

[9:04] I am me, it makes my life full of

[9:06] misery. Because there are so many things

[9:08] that come with me. Me then says, "Well,

[9:11] I want this and I want that." So, I have

[9:13] ambition. I have desires. I have

[9:15] frustration that life is not going

[9:17] according to my plan. And once you begin

[9:19] to realize the root cause of all of that

[9:22] is me.

[9:23] This idea that I think I am. Once you're

[9:25] able to let go of something so close to

[9:28] you, which is me, you begin to realize

[9:30] there is no me. All that there is is

[9:32] oneness. And that's quite an

[9:34] uncomfortable thing for most people.

[9:36] Most people are saying, "Well, I'm happy

[9:38] with being me. I don't want to let go of

[9:39] me. I quite like me. I just want to

[9:41] change everybody else. I don't want to

[9:42] change myself."

[9:44] And I realized that the biggest problem

[9:46] in life was really this idea of me. And

[9:49] over time, I just got more and more

[9:50] fascinated by trying to dissolve this

[9:53] idea of me. Letting go, constantly

[9:55] letting go of all these things which

[9:58] attach onto the me, my negative

[10:00] thinking, my self-imposed limiting

[10:04] beliefs, all of these pressures that I

[10:06] have but I think life should be like

[10:08] this and like that. And every time life

[10:10] doesn't turn out that way, I feel

[10:11] depressed, I feel anxious, I feel

[10:13] worried. And so it's not that I've

[10:15] solved all those problems in my life.

[10:18] I'm just able to catch myself now every

[10:20] time that I do that and that's what

[10:21] Sikhism has really taught me that you're

[10:23] able to live a totally different way of

[10:26] life compared to what the media and

[10:29] society and your parents tell you.

[10:31] There's a completely different way of

[10:32] living.

[10:34] Yeah.

[10:35] Um you know, I'd like to kind of

[10:37] bring in a teaching from the Buddha. He

[10:40] said that

[10:42] every

[10:43] kind of sadness arises out of either

[10:45] expectation or ego.

[10:48] And that's pretty much kind of in line

[10:49] with what you're saying. Even

[10:50] expectation comes from a place of ego. I

[10:52] want that thing. But the keyword is I. I

[10:56] want that thing cuz it'll give me

[10:57] happiness. And this is it's kind of a

[10:59] very deep spiritual lesson you've

[11:01] touched upon which you may not even

[11:03] learn in your in the beginning of your

[11:05] own spiritual journey. It takes you some

[11:06] time to understand that.

[11:08] I also feel that this concept of God, I

[11:10] think it's Ik Onkar, the

[11:12] concept you were basically talking

[11:14] about. I'd love to hear what Ik Onkar

[11:16] means to you specifically and when you

[11:18] had that switch when it came to the

[11:19] meaning of Ik Onkar. For me, I feel God

[11:22] is a very personal thing. It's different

[11:25] for everyone. It's subjective for

[11:26] everyone. Someone might visualize

[11:28] something. Someone might think of God in

[11:30] a certain way. What I've come to realize

[11:32] after 6 years of meditation and really

[11:34] opening up spiritually is that I feel

[11:37] there's some sort of an energy or a

[11:38] light inside you. And it's inside

[11:41] everybody. Even the most evil people,

[11:43] even the worst human beings have that

[11:45] energy or light inside them.

[11:47] And the spiritual journey just brings

[11:49] you closer to that light. Think of a

[11:51] road that goes and hits that light. The

[11:54] most spiritual you get, the cleaner that

[11:56] road gets. And that's why the habits of

[11:59] meditation, that's why the habits of

[12:01] treating people better. It cleans up and

[12:03] smooths out that road to finding that

[12:05] light inside you.

[12:06] Do you look at it in a similar way? Or I

[12:09] mean, I'd love to know your subjective

[12:10] opinion on this. Absolutely. For me, how

[12:15] it began was exactly how you're

[12:17] describing it was that God was no longer

[12:20] out there. God was something that was

[12:22] within me.

[12:24] But the more I've studied, the more I've

[12:25] meditated on it, I've begin to realize

[12:28] that

[12:30] God is not just something that's within

[12:32] me. In fact, it's absolutely everything.

[12:35] And the way I try to describe it is

[12:38] it's as though a fish is swimming around

[12:43] and trying to ask all the other fish,

[12:45] "Where's this water that everyone keeps

[12:46] talking about?"

[12:48] And the idea is that this becomes so

[12:51] difficult to see because the fish can't

[12:55] see the water. He's in the water. He's

[12:57] breathing it in. Every time he opens his

[12:59] mouth, the water is there. He's made of

[13:02] water. And it becomes a realization that

[13:06] if you're going searching for God, as

[13:08] soon as you do that, you've lost the

[13:10] plot. You you you you've gone the wrong

[13:11] direction.

[13:13] And the first realization is to

[13:15] understand that every single thing

[13:20] physical and non-physical is God.

[13:23] So this is where if we take these ideas

[13:25] of Sarguna and Nirguna, that which is

[13:28] formless and that which has form,

[13:30] absolutely everything is God. So

[13:33] the idea of oneness now becomes

[13:36] what isn't God?

[13:39] And that becomes a very interesting

[13:40] question because as long as you say God

[13:43] is something inside me,

[13:45] what it allows is for some part of you

[13:48] to be not God. So you can say, "Yeah,

[13:51] God is the good part of me, but I have

[13:53] some bad parts as well."

[13:55] And what you do is you retain your ego.

[13:57] And Guru Nanak's philosophy is all about

[14:00] complete self-destruction

[14:02] to the point at which there is zero part

[14:05] of you that you can call you. This is

[14:07] not my hand. This is not my body. This

[14:10] is not my mind. These are not my

[14:12] thoughts.

[14:14] This is not my past. This is not my

[14:16] family. This is not my future.

[14:19] And that for most people is almost a

[14:22] step too far. But the Gurus

[14:25] and all the spiritual masters of all

[14:27] traditions have basically said, "If you

[14:29] want to know God,

[14:32] you have to completely dissolve in it.

[14:34] It's like you can't keep reading about

[14:37] the ocean

[14:39] and doing lectures on the ocean and

[14:42] um

[14:44] doing exam papers on the ocean, but

[14:45] you've never been there. You've never

[14:46] swam in the ocean. You've never tasted

[14:48] it. You've never felt it.

[14:50] The best way to know the ocean is to go

[14:52] and swim. And you have to dissolve in

[14:53] the ocean and then you begin to really

[14:55] understand what it is. And so this is

[14:57] the best way to understand what God is

[14:59] is God isn't a one thing. In fact,

[15:02] everything is God. And this is where

[15:04] oneness really starts to make sense that

[15:06] it is absolutely everything and

[15:08] everywhere. So I'm So right now it's God

[15:10] talking to God. It's not me talking to

[15:13] you.

[15:14] Does that make sense? Yeah. No, no. I I

[15:16] get I get what you're saying. And when

[15:18] you have that mental switch, it also

[15:20] brings a lot of peace to what you call

[15:22] your mind. Um that's that's one aspect

[15:25] of it.

[15:26] Satpal bhai, from a practical

[15:28] perspective, you know, if if there's

[15:30] someone who's listening to this

[15:31] conversation and is asking themselves

[15:33] that how do I actually begin to view

[15:35] this world that way? How do I begin to

[15:37] unlearn all the things I've been told

[15:39] since I was a child? What's the

[15:41] practical way of going about it? Is

[15:43] there a kind of meditation you do to

[15:46] perceive the world in a certain way? I

[15:48] mean, I strongly believe that we're

[15:49] living inside a simulation and that kind

[15:52] of encompass encompass encompasses a lot

[15:55] of the

[15:56] things that you said right now. That you

[15:57] need to begin viewing the world as a

[15:59] simulation and you're just playing a

[16:01] role. Because if you don't view the

[16:02] world as a simulation, you're again

[16:04] feeding into your ego and your sense of

[16:07] what you've learned till this point in

[16:09] life. But the moment you start looking

[16:11] at people as pieces of yourself, you

[16:13] start treating people better. What you

[16:15] put out there starts returning to you.

[16:17] You start living a much easier, better

[16:19] life. Uh you know, and of course then

[16:22] there's a whole journey you can go on

[16:24] where it's about meditation. It's about

[16:26] habits. It's about things you eat, the

[16:28] kind of exercises you do. That just kind

[16:30] of strengthens that idea of God being

[16:32] all around you. That's what the world of

[16:34] yoga says as well. That you get

[16:36] connected to your body more. You get

[16:38] connected to that inner source of energy

[16:40] more.

[16:40] But

[16:42] what's a practical way of beginning this

[16:44] process of changing your reality?

[16:47] This is a really interesting question.

[16:49] I'll give you the example of if you

[16:51] wanted to make a stool,

[16:54] what's the minimum number of legs that

[16:56] it needs in order for it to be stable?

[16:58] Let's take that example. If you have a

[16:59] stool with just one leg,

[17:02] it's not going to be very stable.

[17:05] You can try and sit on it, but you'll

[17:06] have to be doing a lot of the balancing

[17:08] yourself. You'll use your legs to try

[17:09] and balance it, but the stool won't

[17:10] support you. You add a second leg, it

[17:13] might work. As soon as you add three

[17:15] legs,

[17:16] you can sit on it comfortably and all

[17:19] three legs are supporting you.

[17:21] And Guru Nanak introduces

[17:23] three different things that you need in

[17:26] order to be able to practically

[17:28] experience this.

[17:30] The first is you need to have the

[17:33] wisdom. You need to have access to this

[17:35] wisdom.

[17:37] The second is you need a practice.

[17:39] And the third is you need to spend time

[17:41] with other people who are also

[17:42] practicing this.

[17:44] So we can call that Gyan,

[17:46] the wisdom, Dhyan,

[17:48] the practice,

[17:50] and Sangat, the people, the spiritual

[17:54] people who are in your community. Call

[17:55] it a spiritual community. And he says

[17:57] these are the three things that you

[17:58] need. Now let's let's look at what

[18:00] happens in the world right now where you

[18:03] have yoga, which is a practice that has

[18:06] exploded all over the world.

[18:09] But it's being taught without the Gyan,

[18:12] without the wisdom, without the deep

[18:14] spiritual knowledge. And without that

[18:16] spiritual knowledge, what you end up

[18:18] getting is things like goat yoga, beer

[18:22] yoga, so many ridiculous types of yoga

[18:24] that are out there, so-called yoga.

[18:26] Because they're trying to position yoga

[18:29] in a very secular way that, "Oh well,

[18:31] there's no religious side of it. You

[18:32] It's just good for your body. It's good

[18:34] for your health." And what you're

[18:35] getting is really

[18:37] an insult to what yoga really is, the

[18:39] deep spiritual meaning of what yoga

[18:41] really is. So you can't segregate these

[18:43] three things.

[18:44] In order to start really living it, I

[18:47] always think of this example that if you

[18:49] wanted to be an entrepreneur, one of the

[18:51] things that you would do is you would

[18:52] start studying the best entrepreneurs in

[18:54] the world. You know, you'd start reading

[18:56] the background of Steve Jobs and and

[18:57] Bill Gates and

[18:59] and Musk Elon Musk and people like that.

[19:01] If you wanted to be a really good

[19:02] musician, you start to go and get

[19:05] training from another musician and you

[19:07] spend time with other music

[19:09] practitioners.

[19:11] So what is it that we're trying to do?

[19:12] If you want spiritual wisdom,

[19:14] then you have to spend time with the

[19:16] spiritual masters.

[19:17] And these are the Kabirs, the Farids,

[19:20] the Namdevs, the Guru Nanaks of the

[19:21] world.

[19:22] Once you spend time with them, you not

[19:25] only just learn the practice, but you

[19:27] also learn where a practice is going

[19:30] wrong. And then you go back and you say,

[19:31] "Guruji, can you tell me what I did

[19:33] this?" And then you read some more of

[19:35] the wisdom and then you realize, "Ah,

[19:36] this is where I fell up fell down. This

[19:38] is where my my practice is letting me

[19:40] down." So I think there are three things

[19:42] that you need. Meditation, I'm a massive

[19:44] believer in.

[19:45] But meditation on its own, I believe can

[19:48] without the wisdom can actually increase

[19:50] your ego. It can increase your sense of

[19:52] self-importance. So, you have to have

[19:54] that guru there, that teacher there,

[19:56] that really humbles you, that that tells

[19:58] you every time you're doing something

[19:59] wrong, and actually gives you that

[20:00] little bit of groundedness. And you need

[20:02] that other community of people that are

[20:03] just supporting you saying, "Yeah, this

[20:05] meditation's not working right now." And

[20:07] that community tells you, "Well, I tried

[20:08] this, try this now, try this." You need

[20:10] all three angles, and that I think is

[20:12] the most important thing if you really

[20:14] want to progress in this.

[20:16] Uh Sat Pal Bhai, you said something very

[20:17] interesting right now about how

[20:19] meditation without the right guidance or

[20:21] the right information could actually

[20:24] lead to your ego swelling up.

[20:26] So, again, in the world of yoga, there's

[20:28] a concept called siddhis, which means

[20:30] that as you meditate, your inner world

[20:32] becomes much calmer. And as your inner

[20:35] world becomes much calmer, it leads to

[20:38] sort of your mind unlocking its own

[20:41] abilities.

[20:42] Now, some people might experience those

[20:44] abilities and think to themselves, "Oh,

[20:47] I'm becoming smarter. Oh, I'm becoming

[20:49] capable of this. Oh, now when someone's

[20:51] in front of me, I can scan them, you

[20:54] know, from A to Z." Is that what you

[20:56] meant by your own ego swelling up where

[20:58] you experience these so-called

[20:59] superpowers and you think that you're

[21:01] doing something great? Uh I mean, that's

[21:03] one part of the question. The second

[21:05] part of the question is um

[21:08] what are some of those things that

[21:09] you've experienced through your own own

[21:11] journey? And and how you corrected those

[21:13] because I'm sure even you must have gone

[21:15] down a path of your ego slightly

[21:17] swelling up and you having to correct

[21:18] yourself.

[21:20] Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what um the

[21:24] idea of ego swelling up means that

[21:26] without having a master there to keep

[21:29] your ego in check, it's very easy for

[21:32] you to increase this idea of

[21:33] self-importance. Look how great I am.

[21:35] I'm meditating. I'm better than you.

[21:37] I've got a golden ticket to heaven. I'm

[21:39] definitely going to go there now, but

[21:41] look at you. And and so, this is where

[21:43] for me anyway, Guru Nanak's philosophy

[21:46] has massively impacted my life because

[21:48] when you read some of his wisdom, he

[21:50] does not allow room for even one shred

[21:54] of ego. He completely destroys the ego

[21:56] at every moment because he's so

[21:58] convinced that ego is the biggest

[22:00] barrier to you connecting with oneness,

[22:03] God, divine, whatever is,

[22:05] that your sense of self-importance, that

[22:08] I am something.

[22:09] It's very interesting that there's

[22:11] the ego is so subtle and so

[22:14] easy to trip you up. There's another

[22:17] side of the ego which you may not even

[22:19] catch. One is the spiritual ego which

[22:21] you've talked about, that I'm better

[22:23] than you, that I can do all these

[22:24] spiritual things. But you can also have

[22:26] another ego, which is I'm such a sinner.

[22:29] Look how small I am. I'm nothing. I'm so

[22:32] I I I'm humble. I'm nothing. But even if

[22:35] you do that, you retain a little bit of

[22:37] I am. At least I am. I'm a sinner, but

[22:38] at least I am.

[22:40] And Guru Nanak doesn't allow for this at

[22:42] all. So, his whole philosophy is

[22:44] constantly teaching you nothing is you.

[22:47] Learn to let go at every single level.

[22:51] That nothing belongs to you. No part of

[22:54] this belongs to you. The very idea that

[22:56] you exist is an absolute fallacy.

[22:59] It's just false. And only when you go

[23:02] into your meditation, and there are many

[23:04] different meditation techniques that

[23:06] essentially ask this question, "Who am

[23:07] I? Who are you?" And when you meditate

[23:10] on that idea, you realize I can't

[23:11] actually find the thing that I call me.

[23:14] Yet all the time that I'm driving around

[23:16] and and and and and walking around and

[23:19] speaking to people, I believe I'm in

[23:21] control of this body. But when you close

[23:23] your eyes and you start to introspect,

[23:25] you realize I can't find this thing

[23:28] called me.

[23:29] And that's where you realize the

[23:30] delusion of me itself. It's not actually

[23:33] there when you go look for it.

[23:35] I do have a supplemental question,

[23:38] which is related to competition in the

[23:40] middle of all this.

[23:41] Uh and I personally feel like

[23:43] competition is of two kinds. One's with

[23:46] your other competitors, people who are

[23:47] competing with you say in your same

[23:49] career.

[23:50] Now, for some people, that might be kind

[23:52] of the forefront of their motivation,

[23:54] that I need to beat this person, etc.

[23:57] That isn't the case for a lot of people.

[23:58] Like for me, I'm not a very competitive

[24:00] person. I I I look at everyone as

[24:01] friends around me. But what I do compete

[24:04] with is my own past, where maybe I

[24:07] didn't achieve what I wanted to. Maybe I

[24:10] didn't have the childhood that I wanted.

[24:12] And I'm constantly competing with myself

[24:14] to get ahead of that darker past. And I

[24:17] feel I mean, especially after talking to

[24:19] you, I feel even that is wrong because

[24:21] you're being harsh on yourself. Uh

[24:23] so, I'd love to know what the spiritual

[24:25] angles on competition are because we

[24:27] honestly see

[24:29] competition bringing out our country and

[24:31] our culture as a whole, that I am better

[24:33] than you. My thought is better than

[24:35] yours. My political belief is better

[24:37] than yours. My religious belief is

[24:38] better than yours.

[24:39] But that's just going to be a source of

[24:42] misery for you and your mind. And we've

[24:43] also got influences from the West. And

[24:45] again, I'm not I'm not using the West to

[24:47] say that that's how they think wrong and

[24:49] this is how we think right.

[24:51] But there are a lot of Western

[24:52] influences which really highlight

[24:54] competition as a forefront. The Last

[24:55] Dance featuring Michael Jordan, or you

[24:57] know, when you see your favorite

[24:58] athletes talk about competition, it

[25:00] fuels competition mindsets in a young

[25:03] person watching sport. So, in in this

[25:05] world that teaches you to be more

[25:07] competitive and is built out to make you

[25:09] competitive, how do you kind of break

[25:11] past that? That's fascinating because

[25:13] when we look at the most successful

[25:16] people in the world, the most

[25:17] competitive people in the world, let's

[25:19] look at the billionaires of the world.

[25:22] The question I always ask is, are the

[25:24] richest people in the world

[25:26] the happiest people in the world?

[25:28] And

[25:30] we all know deep in our heart that

[25:32] they're not the happiest people. Yes,

[25:33] they have a lot of material wealth, but

[25:35] there's also very high levels of

[25:37] depression at the people who have

[25:39] so-called succeeded either in business

[25:42] or in sports or in the arts or in any

[25:45] part of their career.

[25:47] Because what you've done

[25:49] for such a long time is misery has been

[25:52] fueling you.

[25:53] So, I'm not happy now. I will only be

[25:57] happy when this level is achieved.

[26:00] And because you're you're you even if

[26:01] you achieve that level,

[26:03] the practice that you've been doing

[26:05] every day is I'm not happy. I'm not

[26:06] happy. I'm not happy. So, guess what

[26:08] happens when you actually reach that

[26:09] level? You're still in that mindset of

[26:12] I'm not happy. There are very few people

[26:15] out there that have said, "I've made all

[26:16] the money I want to make. I'm done." Or

[26:18] I've reached the level of success that

[26:19] I've done that I needed to and I'm done.

[26:21] Most people who do that all of their

[26:23] life, they are so wrapped up in

[26:26] constantly trying to achieve more

[26:30] that they've let their mental health

[26:32] completely deteriorate. And I'm sure

[26:34] with so many people that you've

[26:35] interviewed, you've realized that the

[26:37] successful people are still not mentally

[26:40] healthy. They're still struggling on on

[26:42] that aspect of it. So, it goes back to

[26:44] asking yourself a very personal

[26:46] question. Why do I want to compete? What

[26:49] is at the root

[26:51] driver for me? Is it happiness?

[26:54] Is it something else? Is it to please my

[26:56] parents? What is it?

[26:58] And so, you realize that if happiness is

[27:01] your goal,

[27:03] save yourself the trouble. Realize right

[27:05] now that you can achieve material

[27:08] success, competitive success,

[27:11] but you will not get happiness in that

[27:13] particular method. So, that then you

[27:15] have to ask yourself the question, am I

[27:17] willing to do that? Am I willing to

[27:19] compromise my own sanity and mental

[27:21] health for all of those potential

[27:25] worldly gains? And this is something

[27:27] where

[27:28] religion and spirituality is at this

[27:30] point not trying to be prescriptive. It

[27:33] won't at any point tell you don't go out

[27:35] and chase a career. It won't tell you

[27:37] don't do these things. It'll tell you

[27:40] these are the things that you need to

[27:41] sort out right now.

[27:43] And

[27:44] if you can sort them out, then let those

[27:47] other things come in. But these worldly

[27:49] things are not going to be the things

[27:51] that that give you the deepest happiness

[27:53] because the reality is whatever you

[27:55] achieve in life, you're not going to be

[27:57] able to take it with you.

[27:59] Absolutely everything, including having

[28:01] perfect fitness with your body, having a

[28:04] perfect house and a great car and a

[28:06] perfect family and great career, none of

[28:08] those things are actually going to last.

[28:10] So, you're building all of your

[28:13] happiness on

[28:15] these very shaky foundations.

[28:18] So, the spiritual wisdom is always

[28:20] saying, "It doesn't matter what you do.

[28:22] Go ahead and do those things. That's not

[28:23] the problem. But while you're doing it,

[28:25] can you be centered? Can you be still

[28:27] and happy? And can you be happy right

[28:29] now in this moment?

[28:32] And not have to think about the next

[28:34] moment as delivering happiness." It's

[28:36] that whole if only, you know, we're

[28:38] always living if only this will happen,

[28:39] if only that happened. And

[28:42] just from my own personal life, I've

[28:44] seen so many of those if onlys, and I

[28:46] still struggle with them sometimes. I

[28:48] still have career ambitions. There's

[28:49] still things that I want to achieve.

[28:51] But in my mind, I catch myself when I

[28:54] see that, do you somehow have you fallen

[28:58] into that trap again? Do you somehow

[28:59] believe that happiness is over there?

[29:01] Happiness is tomorrow? And then I have

[29:03] to remind myself, "No, happiness is

[29:05] available to me right now. Peace and

[29:06] bliss is available right now." And every

[29:08] human being at the root of it is really

[29:11] only chasing peace.

[29:14] And what we don't know is that

[29:16] peace is inside of us. We think that

[29:18] peace comes when you have all of these

[29:20] things. And I I think that's the that's

[29:22] the only way that I can answer the

[29:24] question around competition is figure

[29:26] out why you're trying to compete.

[29:28] Mhm.

[29:29] I mean, the the kind of um practical way

[29:33] I've gone about this in my own recent

[29:34] past is if I'm feeling any sense of

[29:37] competition, any sense of feeling

[29:39] lesser, any sense of uh feeling anger or

[29:42] greed or any emotion that I think is

[29:46] that shouldn't be there in my mind. I go

[29:48] into a deep meditation session. And for

[29:51] me, that's what works. And by the end of

[29:52] that meditation, I'm fine. I have both

[29:55] contentment and inner strength to a

[29:57] certain degree. And the reason I bring

[29:59] this up is this is the kind of

[30:02] benefit of 6 years of meditation, 5 6

[30:04] years of it. When you meditate in the

[30:06] long term, that session of your

[30:08] meditation becomes a safe place for you.

[30:10] Uh and if you are feeling those negative

[30:12] emotions, it's like going in for a

[30:13] shower. You know, you've got dirt on

[30:14] you, you just like wash it off. So,

[30:16] that's one practical kind of angle on

[30:19] this that I wanted to highlight. Uh but

[30:21] Satpal bhai, you you mentioned about

[30:24] things that you take with you after your

[30:26] own death.

[30:27] And I know that, you know, every

[30:30] spiritual person consciously has this

[30:32] moment where they start thinking a lot

[30:34] about death. And it's a subject that

[30:36] I've thought a lot about over the last 2

[30:38] years seeing the amount of death we've

[30:40] seen in the world with COVID. Uh I've

[30:42] thought of my own death. I've thought of

[30:44] the death of my loved ones, my teams,

[30:46] uh the people closest to me.

[30:49] What I have strongly started believing

[30:51] in is a concept of rebirth. I do feel

[30:54] that things will begin again. Things

[30:56] will reboot again.

[30:57] What do you think about rebirth? Is it

[30:59] something you think about consciously?

[31:01] Because it'll it'll be about I mean, you

[31:04] they say that your rebirth and your your

[31:06] next birth is decided based on what

[31:08] you've done in this birth.

[31:10] I have two questions for you. One is

[31:11] your opinion on rebirth. The second is

[31:15] why is someone born as a Sikh? Why is

[31:19] someone born as a Hindu? Why is someone

[31:21] born as a Buddhist, a Muslim? Uh why is

[31:23] someone born in a tribe in Africa? Why

[31:26] is someone born in some other kind of

[31:28] religion? What do you think decides all

[31:30] that? Do you think Sikhs are born often

[31:32] as Sikhs again? Like just I'd love to

[31:35] know your opinion on this.

[31:38] It's interesting that

[31:40] death is

[31:42] so intertwined with

[31:44] many spiritual traditions.

[31:47] And becoming comfortable with your own

[31:50] death

[31:51] is seen as

[31:53] a fundamental part of any spiritual

[31:56] practice.

[31:57] Being comfortable with the idea that

[31:59] this entire story that I've built about

[32:02] my life, my life story, this whole

[32:04] character I am like this and I am like

[32:06] that and I want to achieve all these

[32:07] things. All of those are going to end.

[32:10] When I look at

[32:12] the Guru's teachings, Guru Nanak's

[32:13] teachings, one of the things they try to

[32:16] do is they remind us that death is

[32:20] always hanging over you.

[32:23] They give the example that

[32:25] uh a crane

[32:27] is a crane is is a type of bird that's

[32:30] standing very still and looking at the

[32:33] water. He looks like he's meditating,

[32:34] but really he's keeping really still so

[32:36] that he can catch the fish. And he says

[32:38] that's what people are like, that people

[32:41] are

[32:42] thinking that they're meditative, but in

[32:44] reality, what they're doing is they're

[32:45] trying to just always grab more things

[32:48] out of life. And he says that crane

[32:50] doesn't realize that while he's he's

[32:52] busy fishing and trying to to grab the

[32:54] fish and trying to grab life, there's a

[32:57] hawk that's flying around his head and

[32:59] the hawk can come and grab him at any

[33:00] time. So, the idea that death is going

[33:03] to happen to you

[33:05] is

[33:06] not only a

[33:08] absolute fact, but a fact that we don't

[33:10] like to think about is that it can

[33:12] happen at any time. So, my in my own

[33:15] practice,

[33:16] how I've become comfortable with death,

[33:18] and I'll move on to the rebirth question

[33:19] that you had as well.

[33:21] How I've become comfortable with death

[33:23] is

[33:24] that every single day

[33:27] there is a chance that I may die. And in

[33:29] fact,

[33:30] my personal practice is I wake up every

[33:33] morning and one of the mantras that I

[33:35] say to my head is today could be the day

[33:37] that I die.

[33:38] And I become very comfortable with that

[33:40] idea that today could be the day. Today

[33:42] is no more or any less special. Even

[33:44] though I'm perfectly healthy, and we all

[33:46] know so many people who were perfectly

[33:48] healthy one day and then the next day

[33:51] they were gone.

[33:52] And so, you have to become very

[33:54] comfortable with this idea. And that

[33:55] also helps with your previous question

[33:57] around life and achievement. I'm saying,

[33:59] well, today could be the day that I die.

[34:01] And I'm very comfortable with that idea.

[34:04] One of the things I try to do when it

[34:05] comes to me personally trying to help

[34:08] anyone with spirituality is I I only

[34:11] talk about things that I absolutely have

[34:13] experienced.

[34:15] And what I'm very open about is I

[34:17] haven't experienced what the next life

[34:19] is going to be.

[34:21] And the only way that I've reconciled it

[34:22] in my own mind is I have so many things

[34:25] to sort out in this life. I have a

[34:27] mindset that I need to sort out. I have

[34:28] a spiritual journey in this life.

[34:30] I honestly couldn't care less what

[34:32] happens in the next life. As far as I'm

[34:34] concerned, the body goes back into the

[34:36] ground, the air goes back with air, life

[34:38] energy goes back into life energy, and

[34:40] then that same life energy is then

[34:42] recycled. So, in this whatever we can

[34:45] call it, let's call it the soul, for

[34:46] example. Whatever this energy is that's

[34:48] inside of us has to have come from

[34:50] somewhere. And when it goes back, and it

[34:52] goes back to

[34:53] to the the universe itself.

[34:56] And it makes you think about the lessons

[34:59] that you learned in your very first

[35:00] science lessons about energy, that

[35:02] energy cannot be created or destroyed,

[35:05] it can only move from one form to

[35:06] another form. And I think about life

[35:08] energy in the same way. And that's how I

[35:10] have begun to understand what

[35:12] reincarnation is. It makes absolutely

[35:14] scientific sense that if there is some

[35:17] sort of ball of energy that's inside me

[35:19] that's keeping me alive, when that

[35:21] energy leaves, where is it going to go?

[35:23] It has to go into everything.

[35:25] And actually, that's how I see the

[35:26] people who have passed on,

[35:29] that they haven't disappeared. In fact,

[35:31] they're in the plants, they're in the

[35:33] birds that are flying around, they're in

[35:36] all of the animals and the trees. Life

[35:38] energy must continue. It really is a

[35:41] harmony that

[35:43] is something that you're going to go

[35:44] into as well. You have to go back into

[35:47] Mother Nature, and Mother Nature will

[35:49] then do whatever it wants with you.

[35:51] Whether there's a soul that then travels

[35:53] into another one,

[35:55] for me, I say I have no experience with

[35:57] that. I'm too busy trying to sort out

[35:59] this life to work out what's going to

[36:01] happen with the next life. And in the

[36:02] same way,

[36:04] I think some questions we can come up

[36:06] with our own theories. Why was I born

[36:08] like this? Why was I born into this

[36:09] family? But the truth is they're just

[36:11] going to be speculation. It's just you

[36:13] and me trying to rationalize some things

[36:15] that are beyond our understanding.

[36:18] There's a really nice example that says,

[36:20] why are leaves green?

[36:22] And you can say, well, the leaves are

[36:24] green because of chlorophyll and this

[36:26] and that.

[36:27] But that isn't an answer why are they

[36:28] green. That just answers how they are

[36:30] green. But the why is beyond

[36:34] our understanding. Some things are just

[36:36] the way they are. And one of the the

[36:38] main teachings that Guru Nanak gives in

[36:39] in very one of the earliest verses in

[36:42] the spiritual text called the Guru

[36:43] Granth Sahib, he says

[36:45] that

[36:46] nobody can explain how the universe

[36:49] works.

[36:50] Hukmi hovan akar, hukum na kaheya jae.

[36:53] He calls the universal law. He says the

[36:56] universal law continues to create, but

[36:58] it cannot be explained. These things we

[37:00] can rationalize and try to come up with

[37:02] our own theories, but the reality is we

[37:05] are here now. That's the only thing that

[37:07] you know as a fact. I am here now, and

[37:09] I'm not interested in in beliefs. I'm

[37:12] not interested in some belief system why

[37:14] I was like this or where I believe I

[37:15] will go. I'm interested, can I make the

[37:17] most of this moment right now?

[37:19] And so, it it allows you to just let go

[37:21] of even some of that spiritual debates

[37:25] that sometimes we love to get into. It

[37:27] allows you to let go of all of those

[37:28] things and say, I have no ability to

[37:31] answer that question.

[37:32] That is life is just the way it is. And

[37:34] it allows you

[37:36] to just become very harmonious with

[37:38] whatever life is doing. You say,

[37:40] whatever life does, I'm okay with it.

[37:42] Yeah, I think the concept of humility in

[37:45] one's mind causes you to understand that

[37:48] your mind isn't capable of understanding

[37:50] everything. The true knowledge is

[37:52] knowing that you know nothing. But with

[37:54] the stuff that you do know, you try

[37:57] doing your best with that.

[37:58] Like everyone was not born to be a

[38:00] bowler. You know, some people are just

[38:02] born to be batsman. That's what I'd say.

[38:04] So, if if you're just born to be a

[38:06] batsman, you focus on your batting and

[38:07] let go of the bowling. But you try being

[38:08] the best possible batsman out there.

[38:10] Sorry, that's a cricket reference that

[38:12] keeps kind of sprouting up in this

[38:14] podcast.

[38:15] Um I do I do have some more questions

[38:18] about Sikhism. And I come from a place

[38:20] of being from a Punjabi family. So,

[38:22] every single Punjabi family is deeply

[38:24] connected to Sikhism in some form. It's

[38:26] either you've grown up going to

[38:28] Gurudwaras, you've grown up with a lot

[38:29] of Sikh friends.

[38:31] The one

[38:32] thing that I connected with when it came

[38:34] to Sikhism, other than the stuff you've

[38:36] already spoken about, I was always

[38:38] connected to the humility of it, the

[38:40] concept of Ik Onkar.

[38:41] The other aspect that I was extremely

[38:44] connected to was the warrior spirit. Um

[38:47] you know, not not to go out and be a

[38:50] part of war, but kind of to wake up with

[38:52] a warrior spirit every day. That no

[38:54] matter what difficulty is in front of

[38:55] me, if I wake up with the spirit of a

[38:57] warrior, it's something I could take on.

[38:59] And that's something that's helped me so

[39:00] much in my own journey of my career, my

[39:03] own journey of even my meditation, my

[39:05] peace. I will be able to overcome this.

[39:07] I'll be able to move forward.

[39:09] Um

[39:10] I'd love to know that warrior kind of

[39:13] aspect of Sikhism. Because even if we

[39:15] talk about the Sikh community in the

[39:17] modern day in India,

[39:19] all Indians owe a lot to the Sikh

[39:21] warrior community. Be it the

[39:23] independence movement, be it before that

[39:25] when the country was undergoing

[39:26] invasions, the Sikhs were the first line

[39:29] of defense. They're the warriors that go

[39:30] to the forefront.

[39:32] So, it was so inspirational for me to

[39:34] just be a Punjabi and and kind of know

[39:36] that, okay, these these are my brothers,

[39:39] you know, who who went who went there.

[39:41] They're all Indians as brothers. They

[39:44] you know you could you could it kind of

[39:45] look at that from many angles. But on a

[39:47] personal boyhood level for me the

[39:49] warrior aspect of everything that Guru

[39:52] Gobind Ji said

[39:53] was so kind of important in shaping up

[39:56] my own mind. So I'd love to know what

[39:59] you have to say about that warrior

[40:00] aspect of Sikhism.

[40:02] It's a beautiful part of the tradition

[40:04] and I just give you a little bit of a

[40:06] the backdrop for those of your audience

[40:08] who who who don't know the story around

[40:11] why Sikhism came.

[40:15] It started with the birth of Guru Nanak

[40:17] in the 1400s and in the early 1500s

[40:22] India began to see invasion from Mughal

[40:25] emperors. So the real Mughal Empire into

[40:29] India was around those 1500s and it

[40:31] started with an emperor called Babur.

[40:34] And what you saw at that time was huge

[40:38] amounts of political divisions, a lot of

[40:42] segregation, a lot of tension and really

[40:46] he was acting like a dictator coming in

[40:48] and and and mass killing

[40:51] so many people because he just believed

[40:53] that I am owed this country. I'll I'll

[40:55] just come and take whatever I want. So

[40:57] if you just think about the geography of

[40:59] Punjab and where it started that was

[41:02] where the the Arab invasion started

[41:05] around from those sorts of areas and so

[41:07] you had a group of people rise up and

[41:09] say

[41:09] this is this is our home. You have to

[41:13] you have to

[41:14] stand up for what you believe. These are

[41:16] our brothers. This is our this is our

[41:17] family. So we have to stand up for these

[41:19] people.

[41:20] And that's really where the whole

[41:23] warrior aspect started from. You

[41:25] mentioned Guru Gobind Singh Ji one of

[41:26] the key lessons that he teaches about

[41:28] being a warrior he says only when every

[41:32] other method of diplomacy has failed

[41:35] only then should you pick up the sword.

[41:37] And sometimes we think that you know

[41:41] sometimes you have quite a negative

[41:43] stereotype of a Sikh is you know he's

[41:44] always hot headed and he's always ready

[41:46] to pick out the sword and and ready to

[41:48] fight but actually that's not the real

[41:50] Sikh. The real Sikh or the Khalsa which

[41:52] is this warrior class of the Sikhs

[41:54] itself is that there are essentially

[41:57] meditators first

[41:59] and warriors second. So when your

[42:03] determination to stand up for injustice,

[42:07] stand up against human rights abuses

[42:10] when that comes from a sense of peace

[42:12] first, when that comes from a sense of

[42:15] equality that everybody deserves to live

[42:17] a peaceful life, when that comes from a

[42:19] sense of I may not follow the same

[42:22] religion as you, I may not

[42:24] be of the same tradition or background

[42:26] as you but it's my job to defend your

[42:28] right to live however you want.

[42:30] Everybody deserves to live and it really

[42:33] you can talk about the the human rights

[42:35] act and all of the human rights

[42:37] privileges that we we we we we allow

[42:40] ourselves in the world today

[42:42] these things have been

[42:44] pioneered by some of these warriors who

[42:46] actually said I'm here to defend you.

[42:47] But it doesn't come from from agitation.

[42:49] It doesn't come from anger. It actually

[42:51] comes from love.

[42:53] So when you are loving then you are in a

[42:56] position that you can help other people.

[42:59] And so

[43:00] the the sword that all

[43:03] baptized Sikhs

[43:05] which we call somebody who has taken

[43:07] Amrit which is this this this spiritual

[43:09] initiation

[43:11] the actual name of the sword that we

[43:13] carry is called Kirpan. And Kirpan means

[43:16] to give Kirpa to others, to give

[43:17] blessings to others. It is you are doing

[43:20] it out of your own grace, out of a sense

[43:22] of love for everyone else. So you never

[43:24] fight a war or anything like that out of

[43:26] a sense of agitation. The other thing

[43:29] that Guru Gobind Singh Ji taught was the

[43:31] Khalsa is one who fights a battle daily.

[43:36] Every single day whether that doesn't

[43:39] mean you get up and you physically start

[43:41] fighting. It means every single day you

[43:44] need to see life as an opportunity to

[43:48] destroy negativity, to destroy injustice

[43:52] even in your in your workplace, even in

[43:55] your family, even if there are things

[43:57] going around around you just with the

[43:59] people in your in your close circle you

[44:02] need to be the person that says

[44:04] right is right. These are the things

[44:06] that need to be done. This is the right

[44:08] way. And sometimes that's a big

[44:09] sacrifice. A lot of us we don't want to

[44:10] do that. We don't want to stand up for

[44:12] what's right. We don't want to we don't

[44:14] want to agitate anyone. I'm probably the

[44:16] least confrontational person. I hate

[44:18] getting into arguments with anyone.

[44:20] But sometimes it has to come from a

[44:22] place of

[44:24] am I going to stand here and watch this

[44:28] injustice happen in front of my eyes?

[44:30] Can I can I be happy with myself

[44:32] allowing that to happen? And when you're

[44:34] agitated internally from the things that

[44:37] are going on around you and you say no

[44:39] something has to be done. That's who a

[44:41] true warrior is. So a warrior is one

[44:43] who's coming from love, not from hatred

[44:46] or segregation. In fact even the person

[44:48] that you are fighting against so to

[44:51] speak, you're doing it with love. I'm

[44:52] doing it so that you may understand that

[44:54] there's a better way to live. I'm doing

[44:56] it out of blessing for you

[44:59] that you need to understand that there's

[45:00] a better way to live. And I won't do

[45:01] that with a sword first. I'll do that

[45:03] first with my kindness, with my words,

[45:06] with my compassion towards you.

[45:08] Pal Bhai I would love to know a little

[45:10] bit more about the Kirpan, the Kara. Um

[45:13] what is the significance of what

[45:16] non-Sikhs know about Sikhs?

[45:19] When we look at people with turbans,

[45:21] when we look at people with beards, I

[45:22] feel that Sikhs have a different

[45:24] understanding of it and most of the

[45:26] outside world doesn't. So I'd love for

[45:29] you to highlight these outward elements

[45:31] of Sikhism. What does it actually

[45:33] represent?

[45:34] First and foremost it's really important

[45:36] to clarify that these things, the

[45:40] Kirpan, the Kara, the Kesh, all of these

[45:42] things, these don't make you a Sikh.

[45:46] And it is not a Sikh is somebody who has

[45:49] a turban on their head. A Sikh is not

[45:50] somebody who wears a Kara.

[45:52] These are simply just spiritual

[45:55] reminders for a lifestyle. So I want

[45:59] a lot of people to understand that when

[46:01] when I say the word Sikh I don't mean a

[46:04] group of people from Punjab. That's not

[46:06] what I'm talking about. That's not what

[46:07] a real Sikh is. A Sikh is not a Punjabi.

[46:10] They're not synonymous with each other.

[46:12] A Sikh is somebody who is willing to

[46:16] learn about their true self and willing

[46:19] to follow and practice all the things

[46:22] that are required to remember that this

[46:25] is all oneness. So a really a student of

[46:27] oneness is what we would define as a

[46:29] Sikh.

[46:30] Now going back to

[46:33] the where these sort of religious

[46:35] symbols or or or or articles of faith as

[46:38] some people describe them, where they

[46:40] come from is these are really some of

[46:43] the practices that developed as the

[46:45] later Gurus came in. So for those who

[46:47] are unaware Guru Nanak was born in the

[46:49] 1400s and he had nine other successors

[46:53] and the last one is the one that you've

[46:54] mentioned Guru Gobind Singh Ji. And from

[46:57] about the time of the fifth and the

[46:59] sixth Gurus

[47:01] what we started to see was that there

[47:04] was a need for not just spiritual people

[47:08] but spirituality and the warrior side of

[47:11] things to to to merge because we were

[47:14] starting to see real oppression in

[47:17] India. So the fifth Guru some people may

[47:20] not be aware is known as Guru Arjan Dev

[47:23] Ji. He was actually a martyr. So the

[47:26] Mughals actually assassinated him. He

[47:28] was tortured because they were trying so

[47:31] hard to convert the rest of India that

[47:34] they were just even going after the

[47:35] spiritual masters.

[47:37] So the fifth Guru was was tortured and

[47:40] he was assassinated by the Mughal elite.

[47:44] His son Guru Hargobind Ji took on the

[47:47] Guruship next and he decided that I can

[47:50] no longer just be a meditator. Now I

[47:51] have to be a meditator with a sword. And

[47:54] so as it goes on and on you begin to see

[47:58] that then his

[48:00] his son was the ninth Guru then his

[48:03] grandson Guru Gobind Singh Ji was the

[48:05] tenth Guru. So you began to see that

[48:07] these Gurus were now spiritual and

[48:10] warriors at the same time. So they were

[48:12] the ones who were actually going and

[48:13] fighting some of these battles. They

[48:15] weren't just sitting in the back saying

[48:16] you guys go. I'll stay back here. They

[48:18] say no we have to be at the forefront.

[48:20] So these Gurus became warriors and

[48:22] meditators. So they were trying to teach

[48:23] that this is what the society needs

[48:25] right now. This is what the world needs

[48:27] right now. We need to be both.

[48:29] And so in doing that they they created a

[48:32] code of conduct that if you are to live

[48:35] this lifestyle there's a couple of

[48:37] things that you need to do. And and they

[48:39] gave us what they call the five Ks.

[48:41] Basically five religious symbols that

[48:45] were something that you have to keep

[48:47] with you all the time but they were

[48:49] really five reminders of different ways

[48:52] different practices that you need to

[48:53] hold on to. So the first one is Kara

[48:55] which you'll see every Sikh will wear a

[48:57] a a bangle around their their hand. But

[49:00] all of these have very deep spiritual

[49:01] meaning and and actually we could spend

[49:03] a lot of time but I'll very quickly go

[49:04] through those. So why does a Sikh wear a

[49:06] Kara? Well for multiple reasons. Number

[49:08] one it's round. So it has no beginning

[49:11] and ending and this is a reminder to you

[49:14] that actually God is always there. There

[49:16] is always a oneness. So you have to kind

[49:18] of see this as a way of reminding you

[49:21] that no matter what you do you know when

[49:24] we were kids we we were taught that you

[49:26] know whatever if you stick your hand out

[49:27] to do something wrong the Kara will will

[49:29] be there as a reminder you or as a

[49:30] reminder.

[49:31] And there are so many beautiful parts of

[49:33] of this symbolism. You see this is

[49:36] intrinsic in in Indian culture that

[49:38] whenever a student historically would go

[49:41] and

[49:42] take on a guru even if they were like a

[49:44] music teacher some some sort of teacher

[49:47] the teacher would initiate and say that

[49:50] I now accept you as my student and they

[49:52] would wrap a string around their hand

[49:54] and say I accept you as my student. So

[49:56] we see the kara as the guru saying I

[49:57] accept you as my student and this is

[49:59] basically why every Sikh or anybody who

[50:01] identifies as a Sikh even if they don't

[50:03] wear anything else they basically say

[50:05] this is my symbol that I belong to this

[50:06] guru that I belong to this school of

[50:09] thinking and I'm allowing this teacher

[50:11] to influence my life and teach me how to

[50:13] live. And in that same way we were given

[50:15] a kirpan which we talked about which is

[50:17] the sword. We were given kesh and we

[50:20] were told that

[50:22] if you keep your hair

[50:24] completely intact. So some people are

[50:26] very surprised when they look at me and

[50:28] I tell them that I've never cut my hair

[50:30] from the day that I was born. So they

[50:32] ask oh how long is your hair? How long

[50:34] is your beard? All these the questions

[50:35] come about. And and again these are just

[50:38] reminders. What is the purpose of

[50:40] keeping long hair? You'll begin to see

[50:42] all spiritual masters in all different

[50:44] traditions have a long hair and there's

[50:46] something very beautiful about watching

[50:49] your hair grow watching the color change

[50:53] and it's again another reminder when you

[50:55] look at yourself in the mirror you

[50:57] realize I'm not even control of I mean

[50:59] I'm not in control of this body. This

[51:01] body has its own life cycle. This body

[51:04] is doing its own thing. So when you

[51:05] watch your own hair grow and you watch

[51:07] it turn gray you begin to realize this

[51:10] body is going to go one day this is not

[51:11] me. So it's all part of the spiritual

[51:14] training. So you've got your kara your

[51:16] kirpan and you've got your kesh.

[51:19] And then you've got your kanga. Kanga is

[51:22] a little comb that you wear at the back

[51:23] of your head and that's just a reminder

[51:26] of cleanliness. Some some people say

[51:28] that it's to do with having a a clean

[51:32] and holistic lifestyle that you're

[51:34] always reminding yourself that I have to

[51:36] be

[51:38] clean in the world. I have to allow

[51:39] myself to be presentable in such a way.

[51:42] I can't just be somebody that goes sits

[51:44] in the jungle and meditates. You know

[51:46] Guru Nanak was invited many times to

[51:50] join the spiritual elite around the

[51:54] world. Every time he went and spoke to

[51:55] spiritual masters

[51:58] the spiritual masters would ask Guru

[52:00] Nanak what is happening in the world?

[52:02] And Guru Nanak's reply was the world is

[52:03] burning and the people who can help are

[52:06] sitting up here in a mountain

[52:07] meditating.

[52:08] And Guru Nanak rejected this idea that

[52:10] you need to go sit in a mountain or be a

[52:12] monk in order to be spiritual. He said

[52:15] I'm going to show you that I can have a

[52:17] job I can have a wife I can have

[52:20] children and still reach spiritual peak.

[52:22] And the reason I'm going to do that is

[52:23] because that's what normal people do.

[52:26] Normal people are doing this so I need

[52:27] to show them how do you be spiritual

[52:29] doing normal things? And that's what

[52:30] that kanga represents living a lifestyle

[52:33] where you're just carrying out your

[52:35] daily duties.

[52:36] And the final is a kachera. Kachera is

[52:38] these briefs these shorts that you wear

[52:40] underneath your clothing and again

[52:43] that's about self-restraint. Your

[52:45] kachera is about don't think that your

[52:47] life is just about trying to get as many

[52:50] relationships and sleep with as many

[52:51] partners. It's about having

[52:53] self-restraint and not thinking that

[52:55] life is all about

[52:57] going out there and just grabbing all

[52:58] the all the sensual experiences in the

[53:01] world. So all of these things are really

[53:03] practical reminders of how you can live

[53:05] your life because there are so many

[53:07] instances in life where your mind does

[53:09] get tempted your mind does go in the

[53:12] wrong directions and you you use these

[53:14] tools to remind you that this is not

[53:16] what I'm really here to achieve in life.

[53:18] And when you look at yourself in the

[53:19] mirror the idea is you shouldn't see

[53:21] your own reflection. When you look in

[53:23] the mirror you should see your guru's

[53:25] image and when you when you see the guru

[53:27] in front of you then you realize ah my

[53:29] life is about my guru it's not about me.

[53:31] It's about my master teaching me how to

[53:33] really live not about just me trying to

[53:35] figure out life in my own way. But it

[53:37] doesn't mean that if you don't have

[53:38] these things that you're inferior in

[53:40] some way or that you're not a good Sikh.

[53:42] Anybody from any background can be a

[53:44] Sikh. Guru Nanak's

[53:46] um most um

[53:49] beloved companion was somebody called

[53:51] Bhai Mardana who was a Muslim. So Guru

[53:54] Nanak and Bhai Mardana traveled around

[53:56] the world for decades and so his best

[53:58] friend was a Muslim. But

[54:01] you wouldn't call him a Muslim because

[54:02] he was also following Guru Nanak. So a

[54:05] Sikh is not somebody who is rejecting

[54:09] other religions and saying I've given up

[54:10] other religions and I'm now going to

[54:12] only be a Sikh. That's not what Guru

[54:14] Nanak Sikh he is.

[54:16] You can be a Hindu who is following the

[54:19] Guru's tradition. You can be a Muslim

[54:21] who's following the Guru's tradition and

[54:22] Guru Nanak went around the world and

[54:24] spoke to so many people and he said let

[54:27] me teach you what being a Muslim really

[54:29] means. And there are verses in his

[54:30] writings which are teaching people about

[54:33] how to do a namaz how to do fasting

[54:36] properly.

[54:36] People are surprised that Guru Granth

[54:38] Sahib actually has this sort of

[54:39] information and it teaches people from

[54:41] the Hindu traditions this is what

[54:43] this is how you really look at Krishna.

[54:46] This is what Shiva really means. This is

[54:48] how you celebrate Holi.

[54:51] And it's all about how do you use all of

[54:53] these as opportunities to understand

[54:55] your mindset. And all of these they go

[54:56] back to don't worry about the external.

[54:59] The external doesn't define who a Sikh

[55:01] is. These things do not define who a

[55:03] Sikh is.

[55:05] A Sikh is completely defined by the

[55:06] person who sorted out his own mind and

[55:08] sorted out his mindset.

[55:11] Wow. Okay this was the highlight of this

[55:13] episode for me.

[55:15] Just having this conversation with these

[55:17] are questions that I've had in my mind

[55:19] since I was a little boy. And it's it's

[55:21] why I was waiting for this conversation

[55:23] for 2 years.

[55:24] Uh but Satpal Bhai I mean I have to

[55:27] bring it back to 2022

[55:29] and and you and your mindset with the

[55:31] amount of spiritual knowledge you have

[55:34] already.

[55:35] You know I I know I know you're someone

[55:37] who studies different faiths as well. I

[55:39] know you're someone who who possibly

[55:40] accumulates a lot of knowledge. What

[55:42] have you learned about Sikhism at this

[55:44] stage of your life? And are you still

[55:45] going deeper into it? Are you still

[55:47] learning more?

[55:48] I think what's very interesting is when

[55:51] you put yourself in a position where you

[55:54] are

[55:55] educating others

[55:57] you actually become the best student at

[55:59] that point. You're forced to constantly

[56:02] reflect on your own life and look at am

[56:06] I actually doing all the stuff that I

[56:08] say? And I put my hand up all the time

[56:10] and I try to be as open and all and

[56:12] honest as I can on my own YouTube

[56:14] channel where I where I do all of my my

[56:16] sort of education and my lectures is

[56:19] I at never at any point want people to

[56:22] believe that I'm somehow spiritually

[56:24] uplifted or somehow I'm high. Yes I've

[56:26] read a lot. Yes I've retained a lot of

[56:29] information and I'm able to I think

[56:32] quite well communicate it with people.

[56:35] But I'm constantly going through my own

[56:38] inner battles because we're human at the

[56:40] end of the day. I don't believe that I'm

[56:41] somehow spiritually superior.

[56:44] It's very interesting I think it was

[56:46] back in

[56:47] maybe around 2000 and

[56:51] 10 2011 I was invited to Sweden and I

[56:55] was

[56:56] giving a talk and when they were

[56:57] introducing me they said we have a

[57:00] spiritual teacher who's going to teach

[57:02] you.

[57:03] And the first thing that I said when I

[57:04] began my talk

[57:07] was in my tradition

[57:09] nobody is allowed to be a teacher.

[57:11] In my tradition everybody is called a

[57:14] Sikh and the word Sikh comes from the

[57:17] word sishya which means student. And so

[57:20] it's like you enroll in a school that

[57:23] you're never allowed to graduate from.

[57:26] I'm always a student. I'm always

[57:28] learning because at any point if I say

[57:31] that I'm the teacher ego comes back in.

[57:34] If you say that you're the teacher what

[57:36] you said is I've learned everything.

[57:38] And so my mindset is constantly

[57:42] that I am still trying to apply this in

[57:45] my daily life. And sometimes you fail so

[57:48] badly sometimes you get so angry so

[57:51] stressed so worked up in your own life

[57:54] and you have to take a step back and you

[57:55] have to look and say wow where's all

[57:57] those teachings gone now?

[57:59] Where's all those things that you've

[58:01] been studying and teaching other people

[58:03] and still you're falling down and it

[58:05] really humbles you to realize I'm

[58:07] nowhere. I haven't achieved anything if

[58:09] I'm still doing this. I mean being a

[58:11] parent is so difficult but so many times

[58:14] you just catch yourself getting

[58:15] frustrated at your kids because they're

[58:17] just doing something that you've tried

[58:18] to tell them 10 times don't do that. And

[58:21] you see how easy it is for the mind to

[58:23] get worked up. And then you begin to

[58:25] realize actually I still haven't learned

[58:27] anything. I still need to practice this

[58:29] every day. And the only way that I've

[58:31] that I've begun to understand what

[58:35] this practice means in my life what

[58:37] meditation means in my life is that I

[58:39] used to think that I've meditated so

[58:42] many times that I've done so many years

[58:44] of meditation why am I not spiritually

[58:46] higher anymore? Why why haven't I

[58:48] achieved something even higher? And I

[58:50] realized quite recently

[58:52] that that's the wrong way of looking at

[58:54] it. The better way to look at it is like

[58:57] the way we brush our teeth.

[58:59] We never brush our teeth in the morning

[59:00] and think why do I still need to brush

[59:02] my teeth? I've been brushing for so many

[59:04] years and by now my teeth should be

[59:07] clean. We don't think like that.

[59:09] We all know

[59:11] that every day dirt accumulates and so

[59:15] every morning you have to brush your

[59:16] teeth. And in the same way I've begun to

[59:18] understand meditation in the same way

[59:19] that every day my ego increases every

[59:24] day my attachments to the world

[59:26] increases and my I fall down the trap of

[59:29] my own ego and so a daily meditation is

[59:32] allowing to daily cleanse that way of

[59:34] thinking to wipe the slate clean and

[59:36] remind myself this is what life is

[59:38] really about. This is who you really

[59:40] are. And so I always say that I'm I'm at

[59:44] ground zero. I'm at like level zero. I'm

[59:46] never any higher than level zero because

[59:49] every day I keep I find a a way to get

[59:51] back down and fall down back to back to

[59:53] the ground again.

[59:55] What what kind of meditation do you do

[59:57] and how long do you sit for?

[59:59] For me meditation, there are two things

[1:00:02] that I do. One is a formal practice

[1:00:03] where you sit down, you close your eyes

[1:00:05] and you actually meditate. And the

[1:00:07] second is

[1:00:10] how do you actually do this in your

[1:00:11] daily practice? And for me there are

[1:00:14] what the the technique that Guru Nanak

[1:00:16] gives us is what he calls Nam, which we

[1:00:18] can also call Manter. Which is to use a

[1:00:22] wisdom word throughout your day that

[1:00:25] constantly reminds you of the to let go

[1:00:30] of this this idea of the sense of self.

[1:00:32] And this is I think what is slightly

[1:00:34] different about Guru Nanak's approach to

[1:00:36] to Manter is that it's not a magic word.

[1:00:40] Sometimes people think of a Manter, they

[1:00:42] say you don't need to know the meaning,

[1:00:44] the sound itself can can take you

[1:00:46] somewhere. And Guru Nanak actually gives

[1:00:48] a different definition of Nam and

[1:00:50] Manter. And he says that you need to

[1:00:52] understand what it actually means. And

[1:00:54] what I've begun to understand what Nam

[1:00:57] means in my life is it's really got two

[1:00:59] levels to it.

[1:01:01] The first is

[1:01:03] we would say Bhagwan ka Nam Lena, just

[1:01:05] to to call out God's name. But once you

[1:01:07] do that, you you thinking of God is

[1:01:08] somewhere else. But that's the initial

[1:01:10] stage. That's

[1:01:11] that's how it begins for everyone.

[1:01:13] And what it simply starts with is to

[1:01:15] just what I call Nam, the first stage of

[1:01:17] Nam is Namo, Namaskar karna, to just bow

[1:01:20] down. I bow to you. I bow to you. At

[1:01:23] everything at every single thing that we

[1:01:26] see. You see the sunrise, I bow to you.

[1:01:29] I see other people. Look at this

[1:01:31] beautiful baby, I bow to you. Look at

[1:01:34] this traffic jam that I'm stuck in, I

[1:01:37] bow to you.

[1:01:38] Look at this really busy crowded

[1:01:40] marketplace, I bow to you. So that's

[1:01:42] that initial stage of Nam. And whether

[1:01:44] you sit and you do that in your practice

[1:01:46] as you're closing your eyes or you're

[1:01:49] doing that as you go about your daily

[1:01:51] life. That I bow to you. I bow to you. I

[1:01:54] bow to you becomes so

[1:01:57] habitual. It becomes so much ingrained

[1:02:00] in your daily practice that it leads you

[1:02:02] to the second stage of what Nam does is

[1:02:05] Nam goes from Namo Namo Namo to Name

[1:02:09] Name Name. There is no me. There is no

[1:02:11] me. There is no me. Even this about you.

[1:02:14] There is no me. And so for me the whole

[1:02:17] purpose of meditation is to dissolve the

[1:02:18] sense of I am. The dissolve the sense of

[1:02:20] ego. That I am something.

[1:02:23] That I And and this is the the the real

[1:02:25] difficulty of what I I believe Guru

[1:02:28] Nanak's technique is is that he's not

[1:02:30] allowing you to say meditation is for

[1:02:33] you to improve your career. Meditation

[1:02:35] is for you to get to call God. Most

[1:02:37] people do God as Nam and Manter as

[1:02:40] God calling.

[1:02:42] It's almost as though you're sitting

[1:02:43] here and saying come on God. Come on

[1:02:45] God. Come on God. And then God doesn't

[1:02:47] come and he say okay, I'll try again.

[1:02:49] I'll see you next week. I'll try again.

[1:02:51] So what I try to do with my own

[1:02:53] meditation is I am reminding myself to

[1:02:57] let go of the idea of me.

[1:03:00] And whether I do that sitting down or

[1:03:02] whether I'm doing it as I'm walking

[1:03:03] around is constantly just reminding me

[1:03:07] that life is not about me.

[1:03:09] This body is not about me.

[1:03:12] This situation that is happening right

[1:03:13] now is not about me. I'm here. I'm

[1:03:16] participating in it in it.

[1:03:18] But I'm not here as a real sense of

[1:03:22] self. It is God talking to God. This is

[1:03:24] oneness talking to oneness. And the

[1:03:26] amount of peace that that brings in your

[1:03:29] life.

[1:03:31] And it doesn't mean that you don't do

[1:03:33] anything. It doesn't mean that you don't

[1:03:34] react or you don't act or respond to the

[1:03:37] certain situation. It means that you're

[1:03:40] able to just be in complete flow and

[1:03:43] harmony. And that to me is what the real

[1:03:45] meditation is trying to get you to.

[1:03:47] Where you completely accept whatever

[1:03:49] life is doing even if that means that

[1:03:52] you may need to respond in a particular

[1:03:54] way. I think a lot of the times when

[1:03:55] people have heard me talk online, they

[1:03:57] think that when I talk about acceptance,

[1:03:59] which is one of the big subjects that I

[1:04:01] that I try and share is they think well,

[1:04:05] you know, I've got a really difficult

[1:04:06] person in my home right now who's

[1:04:08] abusing me. Do I need to accept that?

[1:04:10] And they think that acceptance means

[1:04:11] inaction. And that's not the same.

[1:04:14] They're not the same thing.

[1:04:15] And for me my meditation is constantly

[1:04:17] just trying to remind myself that

[1:04:20] whatever is happening in life, I'm okay

[1:04:22] with it. Even if it means that I need to

[1:04:24] do something about it. I am coming from

[1:04:27] a sense of peace. So for me meditation

[1:04:29] is something that is just happening 24

[1:04:31] hours a day when I remember to do it.

[1:04:33] That's that's the goal to try and be

[1:04:35] that in that space 24 hours a day. But

[1:04:37] I'm not stopping myself from meditating.

[1:04:39] One of the best experiences

[1:04:41] I used to have when I was sitting on the

[1:04:43] train going to work every day, going in

[1:04:45] into London. And I'm experiencing these

[1:04:49] deep senses of joy and and and bliss and

[1:04:52] euphoria. And I'm looking around me and

[1:04:54] everybody else is on their iPhones and

[1:04:56] and and reading the newspaper and

[1:04:58] everybody looks miserable and I'm

[1:04:59] thinking I'm thinking wow, this is

[1:05:01] possible wherever anything is happening.

[1:05:04] And I think that's what you begin to

[1:05:05] realize that meditation has the ability

[1:05:08] to lift you up

[1:05:10] in all scenarios of life. And I think

[1:05:12] that's to me where you've begun to

[1:05:14] understand that meditation isn't

[1:05:15] something that you just do for 5 minutes

[1:05:17] or 10 minutes a day or even if you do it

[1:05:19] for an hour.

[1:05:20] It's the real world application where

[1:05:22] meditation really counts. And that's

[1:05:24] that's what I try to practice as much as

[1:05:26] possible.

[1:05:27] Wow.

[1:05:28] So Pal Bhai, just speaking to you left

[1:05:30] me feeling extremely calm by the end of

[1:05:33] this 1 hour or so that we've recorded.

[1:05:36] Uh I asked you a lot of my personal

[1:05:37] questions and that for me is what I save

[1:05:40] for these spiritual podcasts. So while I

[1:05:42] have a ton of questions about Sikhism,

[1:05:44] about the universe, about how to go

[1:05:47] about your daily life from that place of

[1:05:51] the Sikhi thought process. Uh I think

[1:05:54] we'll save that for another episode

[1:05:56] because I want people to go back to the

[1:05:57] beginning of this episode and reabsorb

[1:05:59] some of it because some of the stuff

[1:06:01] you've spoken about is a little heavy

[1:06:03] and I feel that with these kind of

[1:06:05] podcasts people do need to retain things

[1:06:07] to really kind of get the nectar out of

[1:06:09] this. So just want to conclude this

[1:06:12] episode with me bowing down to you

[1:06:14] genuinely from my heart. Um you know, I

[1:06:17] and I know that I know the humble way

[1:06:19] that you look at life. But I do feel

[1:06:22] that um you are a big kind of channel

[1:06:25] for God's work to be done in this world.

[1:06:28] So just it was an honor hosting you on

[1:06:31] the show, sir.

[1:06:32] Really, it was an absolute pleasure as

[1:06:34] well. I said to you offline that I'm so

[1:06:37] inspired by the work that you do. And

[1:06:39] for you to introduce spirituality to a

[1:06:42] younger generation for whom atheism is

[1:06:45] now the norm for a lot of people to just

[1:06:48] begin to understand that spirituality is

[1:06:51] applicable to everyone. It is for the

[1:06:54] atheist and the so-called religious as

[1:06:55] well. And I think that's that's where

[1:06:57] you and I are

[1:06:58] are are working towards the same goal.

[1:07:00] And I genuinely

[1:07:03] humbled by the fact that you've even in

[1:07:05] invited me on the show. It's it's it's a

[1:07:06] real inspiration just to be speaking to

[1:07:08] you and your ability to connect with

[1:07:11] other people by being so raw, being so

[1:07:14] honest, being so vulnerable. I look at

[1:07:16] the the the stuff that you put out on on

[1:07:18] on your podcast and I say wow, I don't

[1:07:20] think I could be that brave. So it's

[1:07:21] actually such a joy for me to speak to

[1:07:24] you as well. I would love to be invited

[1:07:25] back on the podcast if you'll have me,

[1:07:27] if your audience will have me, it'll be

[1:07:28] an absolute pleasure as well. Thank you

[1:07:29] so much. I think there's there's

[1:07:31] hundreds of episodes that we're supposed

[1:07:33] to do together. And Sat Pal Bhai, I'm

[1:07:35] hoping to have you in person for the

[1:07:37] next one. I'm I'm sure we're going to do

[1:07:40] countless episodes, but that's the

[1:07:41] number of questions I have. So genuinely

[1:07:44] thank you. Thank you for being a part of

[1:07:46] this, sir. And I hope that this

[1:07:48] I hope this conversation goes out to the

[1:07:50] right minds, the people who need this.

[1:07:52] So thank you.

[1:07:54] Thank you so much for watching and I

[1:07:56] hope you benefited from that. If you'd

[1:07:58] like to help us create more spiritual

[1:08:00] content, then head over to our website

[1:08:02] nanaknam.org/donate

[1:08:05] and think about setting up a regular

[1:08:07] monthly donation. We're a 100% nonprofit

[1:08:11] organization. So all the donations that

[1:08:13] you give us go directly into the charity

[1:08:16] and that help us to create and share

[1:08:18] Gurmat spiritual wisdom.

Nanak Naam
ArtistNanak Naam

Nanak Naam is a UK charity, founded by SathPaal Singh in 2013, sharing Guru Nanak's teachings of Oneness through meditation, mindfulness, free courses, videos and music.

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