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Inspiration

Does Surrender Mean Accepting What Happens? Satsang Notes

Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati
Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati
Sep 30, 2026
9 min read
Watch · 7

On a September evening in the Satsang Hall at Parmarth Niketan, a question has traveled from a screen on the other side of the world into a room full of people who have come to sit with it. The question is blunt: how do you believe in God when you don't? The teacher, Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati, answers it less with doctrine than with method. She describes two doors into belief, recounts the laboratory reasoning that kept a former scientist from accepting that life assembled itself by chance, and then brings the same attentiveness to three more questions from the broadcast: meditating through physical heat, the meaning of dharma, and the hardest item on the list, whether karma means that when someone else's carelessness harms us, we should simply accept it. The excerpt this piece works from breaks off before she finishes that last answer, and where the gap matters, the piece says so. What remains is a teacher reasoning out loud, and the reasoning is the point.

Read · 8 sections

Can you start believing in God if you don't believe at all?

She begins with a line she attributes to her own teacher. "Pujya Swamiji always says, 'Don't worry if you don't believe in God because God believes in you.'" The reassurance matters because it sets the tone for everything after: belief is not a membership test.

From there she maps what she calls the two ordinary routes in. "Typically there's two ways into the divine," she says. "One is the normal way, the standard way, the religious spiritual way that says, 'I believe. I've been taught to believe.' Or because I've actually had an experience. An experience of the divine."

— Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati, Parmarth Niketan satsang, 4:23

Her own story sits outside both. She says she was not raised in a religious or spiritual family, and that the God she heard about as a child was mostly a source of fear. She had no experience she would have named as God. Yet she was never an atheist. She had arrived at what she called a "capital P plan," and reasoned that a plan implied a planner. She didn't need the word God for it. "I wasn't very worried about the names," she says. Her route to belief ran through the sciences, which is why her argument deserves a close look.

Why couldn't a laboratory make life, and what does that prove?

Here the speech shifts into a scientist's register. She recalls years in biology, chemistry, and physics labs, working from written instructions: put this in the crucible, turn on the Bunsen burner, wait. Most of the time, she says, nothing happened. "Sometimes we'd get a little bit of smoke. Or maybe you'd get a bad smell. Or maybe you'd get a certain type of like colored smoke. But you never got life."

— Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati, Parmarth Niketan satsang, 6:53

Her point is not that evolution is false. She says she believes evolution happens mostly the way it is taught, with life becoming better adapted over time. What she rejects is the origin story: that elements "randomly hitting each other" could produce life. Her proof is the record of modern research. Even with telescopes, microscopes, and decades of labs, she says, "no one has yet to create even a mosquito in a crucible or a Petri dish. Or a leaf, a leaf that can do photosynthesis, that's actually living."

— Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati, Parmarth Niketan satsang, 9:16

She then widens the lens from the lab to the ordinary world, asking listeners to notice what never goes wrong. Caterpillars know how to weave a cocoon and emerge as butterflies. Apple seeds give apples, orange seeds give oranges. "You never see by accident oranges coming out of an apple seed. You never see by accident a dog walking out of a chicken's egg." For her, that consistency is the evidence. It is an argument from order rather than from scripture, and she invites the listener to test it on logic alone.

— Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati, Parmarth Niketan satsang, 10:47

It is worth noticing what kind of argument this is. She is not claiming that a lab result settles the question of God. She is saying that the reasoning of a skeptic can lead toward the divine, and that the skeptic's own tools were what moved her.

Is a personal experience the surest proof of the divine?

Her strongest advice on belief is that an experience changes the question entirely. Her analogy is love. "If anybody tried to convince any of us that love was simply a figment of our imaginations, it wouldn't really impact us," she says, because nearly everyone has loved a parent, a child, a pet, a sibling, or a best friend. Anyone who has felt it does not need an argument to know it is real.

— Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati, Parmarth Niketan satsang, 12:27

From this she draws a practical instruction: "Put yourself in situations in which you're open to the experience of being in the presence of the divine. Cuz then, you don't need to use your logical mind to believe it. Cuz then, you know it." The advice is not to win an argument but to make room for the thing the argument points to.

Why does the person in the next seat matter to your karma?

Before taking questions from the room, she reminds the audience to speak. The threads of karmic journeys, she says, are interlinked. A person who has a question and stays silent may be depriving not only themselves but the others who were meant to hear the answer. "Don't be shy," she says, "if you're sitting here, you're sitting here for a reason." This framing sets up the later karma question. Karma here is not a private ledger. It is a shared field in which people are placed in each other's lives.

— Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati, Parmarth Niketan satsang, 2:35

How do you keep meditating when the heat is unbearable?

The second submitted question asks how to sustain a practice when it is too hot and the body is physically uncomfortable. The portion of the broadcast this piece draws on contains only fragments of her answer. There are references to the body's limits, to sitting on the ground early in the morning, to the moment when the legs will not cross comfortably, and to changing the posture of the legs. A full remedy is not there, and this piece will not reconstruct one. Readers who want her complete reply should go to the timestamped part of the full broadcast where the question is taken up.

What is dharma, and what signs point toward it?

Dharma, she says, begins with understanding one's purpose, but purpose is only part of it. "Purpose is only a piece of it, cuz..." she begins, before moving toward a larger frame. She turns to the Bhagavad Gita, which she calls her most personal text, and to the scene in which Arjuna, on the battlefield, faces what he must do. She quotes his distress, a reaction in which "the hair is standing" on his body, and notes that the Gita offers around 700 verses in response.

— Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati, Parmarth Niketan satsang, 27:12 and 36:03

The Gita, in her telling, leads to the teaching that the self is not the one who dies, and that one is ultimately not separate from what is divine. The fragments of this answer do not give a checklist of signs. What they suggest is that she reads signs of dharma less as external markers and more as the alignment that appears when action comes from a deeper self. The gaps in the transcript leave that interpretation open.

Does karma mean we should just accept harm done by others?

This is the question the broadcast title asks, and it is the one where the reasoning matters most. A listener asks what to do when another person's lack of mindfulness causes harm or injustice. Is that part of our own karma? And does karma require acceptance?

Her answer begins by refusing a simple split between the harmed person and the harmer. "Maybe all they've got is anger," she says, describing someone who harms others out of what they carry inside. The harmed person is not blamed for it, but is placed within a web of connection where the encounter itself holds "lessons for you, karmic experiences." The frame is that the event is part of a larger story of intersecting lives, and that its meaning is to be read, not simply endured.

— Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati, Parmarth Niketan satsang, 42:40

The excerpt ends before she finishes whether this means accepting what happens. Her later lines, including a reference to the battlefield teaching and the phrase "that's what we're called to do," suggest that she does not equate karma with passivity. But the portion available does not state her full position on surrender, and it would be a distortion to fill that gap with a conclusion she did not reach in the material. The honest reading is that she treats karma as a reason to look more closely at one's place in the encounter, not as a permission to stop responding.

That distinction, between accepting a reality and accepting a harm as one's fate, is the central one in the title question. Her material points toward it without fully resolving it.

Where to go from here

The clearest way into this satsang is to watch the full broadcast, which runs about 51 minutes, and to follow the timestamps above to the sections on heat, dharma, and karma. Her answers are conversational and build on each other, so the surrounding remarks often carry as much weight as the quoted lines. The video's own description lists its four topics, and the description also invites viewers to post questions in the comments, the same invitation she extends to the room.

For readers who want to go further on the ideas here, the Bhagavad Gita is the text she returns to for dharma and the battlefield, and the question of whether experience or argument can establish belief is one that thinkers across traditions have long debated. Her own answer is worth holding as one voice: belief may come through a scientist's reasoning, a childhood's inheritance, or an experience that needs no argument at all. And the questions that come from the people sitting beside you may be part of the teaching.

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Transcript

[0:13] Welcome

[0:15] to Satsang.

[0:20] It's so beautiful to be

[0:25] together with all of you.

[0:29] This is a time of diving deep together

[0:34] into that sacred

[0:38] sacred truth.

[0:40] Who are we?

[0:43] When we meditate,

[0:46] we meditate on co hum, so hum.

[0:51] Who am I?

[0:54] I am that.

[0:56] Who am I?

[0:57] I am that.

[0:59] But,

[1:01] in life, it's so easy to forget.

[1:04] You know, we we

[1:06] we know it in theory.

[1:09] But, as we move through our day, our

[1:11] jobs, our relationships, our to-do

[1:13] lists, we forget.

[1:15] And so, Satsang is a time of

[1:18] coming together with What are the

[1:21] What are the blocks? What are the

[1:23] moments

[1:25] in life

[1:27] that make us forget?

[1:29] And how can we use them

[1:32] to remember instead?

[1:34] So,

[1:37] starting as we always do with a

[1:41] question that comes in advance from our

[1:43] family joining us from

[1:46] across the world online.

[1:50] People send in questions on the website

[1:53] or email or

[1:55] social media or however it however they

[1:58] do it all, lots of different ways.

[2:01] And then we'll open it up after we take

[2:03] one of these in advance, we'll open it

[2:06] to

[2:07] any questions that any of you have.

[2:10] There's a microphone right here and

[2:13] as I always emphasize,

[2:15] don't be shy.

[2:17] If you're sitting here, you're sitting

[2:18] here for a reason.

[2:20] And if you're sitting here with a

[2:22] question,

[2:23] you're sitting here with a question

[2:26] for a reason.

[2:28] So,

[2:30] don't miss the opportunity and don't

[2:33] deprive others.

[2:35] Cuz all of us, the threads of our karmic

[2:37] journeys are interlinked.

[2:40] And if I'm sitting next to somebody

[2:41] who's got a question who's not answering

[2:43] it,

[2:44] well, my karmic journey might have been

[2:47] interwoven because I was meant

[2:52] to hear that question, to get an answer

[2:54] based on what this person was asking.

[2:58] So, it's not just depriving ourselves,

[3:00] but it's actually depriving

[3:02] others as well. So,

[3:12] I don't believe in God.

[3:15] How can I believe in God?

[3:22] I always choose the challenging ones.

[3:26] So,

[3:27] it's a great question.

[3:30] I'll begin by saying Pujya Swamiji

[3:33] always says,

[3:35] "Don't worry if you don't believe in God

[3:38] because God believes in you."

[3:41] So,

[3:43] if you are one of those, "I don't

[3:46] believe in God, but I wish I did. I wish

[3:49] I could. How can I start?"

[3:53] First of all, realize, don't worry,

[3:56] because even if you don't believe in

[3:58] God, God believes in you.

[4:01] But then, how do we start?

[4:04] How can I start believing? So, I'll tell

[4:06] you my personal

[4:08] personal experience with this.

[4:12] Because typically there's

[4:14] two ways into the divine.

[4:17] One is the the normal way, the standard

[4:20] way, the religious spiritual way that

[4:23] says, "I believe.

[4:27] I've been taught to believe. It's part

[4:29] of my system of belief.

[4:32] Or because I've actually had an

[4:34] experience.

[4:37] An experience of the divine."

[4:39] That's how most people end up believing.

[4:45] But it doesn't have to be only that.

[4:49] And I was someone, for example, who

[4:52] didn't believe. I was not raised in a

[4:55] religious family. I was not raised in a

[4:57] spiritual family. I was not raised with

[5:00] anybody who talked about God in any way

[5:03] other than just sort of fear.

[5:08] I certainly hadn't had any experiences

[5:10] of God that I was aware of, that I would

[5:13] have called experiences of God.

[5:17] Now, of course, I can look back and

[5:18] realize everything is an experience of

[5:21] God. But at the time, if you had said to

[5:24] me, "Have you experienced God?"

[5:28] I would have said, "No. I mean, like,

[5:29] what what even would that be like?"

[5:32] But here's how I came into it. Now,

[5:36] at that time, pre-India,

[5:39] cuz when I came to India, I was handed

[5:41] an experience.

[5:43] And the experience transformed me.

[5:45] But before that,

[5:47] I had come to a place in my life where

[5:50] I believed very deeply

[5:54] that there was what I used to call a

[5:57] capital P plan.

[6:00] And therefore, there must be a capital P

[6:04] planner.

[6:06] I wouldn't have necessarily called the

[6:08] planner God.

[6:11] But I didn't have any other name for it.

[6:13] And I wasn't very worried about the

[6:14] names.

[6:16] But I was most definitely not an

[6:19] atheist. I definitely believed. But I

[6:23] came to believe not through the

[6:25] religious or spiritual side.

[6:27] I came to believe through the scientific

[6:29] side.

[6:31] I was a scientist.

[6:33] And I had spent enough time

[6:37] in biology labs, in chemistry labs, in

[6:40] physics labs

[6:43] to know

[6:45] that even in a perfect school situation

[6:49] where you're given a list of like, "Put

[6:51] this in your crucible and that in your

[6:53] crucible and turn on your Bunsen

[6:55] burner."

[6:57] that the vast majority of time

[7:01] nothing happened.

[7:02] Like you're going back over the list.

[7:03] Something was supposed to happen. It

[7:05] didn't happen.

[7:08] Sometimes we'd get

[7:11] a little bit of smoke.

[7:13] Or maybe you'd get a bad smell.

[7:15] Or maybe you'd get a certain type of

[7:17] like colored smoke.

[7:21] But you never got life.

[7:24] We never created life

[7:29] in a crucible or a Petri dish.

[7:33] And what I started to realize as a

[7:36] scientist,

[7:38] as you start to think about the things

[7:42] that we're told,

[7:45] I

[7:46] Well, I certainly believe that evolution

[7:49] happens mostly the way that we're

[7:51] taught.

[7:54] We get better and better and better with

[7:56] time, better adapted,

[7:59] better equipped.

[8:05] But how did it start?

[8:07] I never believed in the randomness of it

[8:10] all. Because my feeling was if sitting

[8:12] in a science lab

[8:14] with full written instructions of what

[8:17] to do,

[8:18] with all of the different materials that

[8:20] you needed hand-picked and given to you

[8:22] in the lab,

[8:24] Bunsen burner on site, beaker on site,

[8:27] crucible on site, all the elements on

[8:29] site,

[8:34] and not even just our, you know,

[8:35] university labs, you think about the

[8:37] best science labs in the world,

[8:42] nobody can create life.

[8:45] The best they could do was they managed

[8:48] to make a few Xerox copies a few times.

[8:52] There were moments of cloning,

[8:54] right?

[8:55] We could we could Xerox something we

[8:58] had, basically.

[9:00] But to date,

[9:04] thousands of years into science

[9:06] research, hundreds of years into what

[9:09] you would call modern scientific

[9:11] research,

[9:12] no one has yet to create

[9:16] even a mosquito

[9:19] in a crucible or a Petri dish.

[9:22] Or a leaf, a leaf that can do

[9:24] photosynthesis,

[9:26] that's actually living.

[9:29] We can't create life.

[9:31] And so the idea to me that

[9:35] somehow

[9:36] randomly elements just randomly hitting

[9:40] each other

[9:41] had made something

[9:44] that in hundreds of years of modern

[9:46] science with telescopes and microscopes

[9:50] we couldn't reproduce?

[9:53] Didn't make sense to me as a scientist.

[9:55] And so when you say, "How do I believe

[9:58] in God?" Well, if you're asking this

[10:00] question, chances are

[10:03] you're not coming from a place of deep

[10:05] religious grounding

[10:08] or you'd already believe.

[10:10] You're not coming from a place of

[10:12] personal experience

[10:14] or you'd already believe.

[10:16] And so ask yourself on a purely logical

[10:20] standpoint,

[10:23] does the argument

[10:25] does the theory

[10:28] of all of this, the perfection

[10:31] of caterpillars knowing how to weave a

[10:34] cocoon, how to come out as a butterfly,

[10:36] how to fly

[10:39] random?

[10:41] Random? It just happened?

[10:45] Seeds

[10:46] sprouting,

[10:47] becoming trees

[10:49] the apple seed knowing that it's

[10:51] supposed to give apples, the orange seed

[10:53] knowing it's supposed to give oranges

[10:55] not apples.

[10:57] And never a mistake, not one.

[11:01] You never see by accident oranges coming

[11:03] out of an apple seed.

[11:06] You never see by accident a dog walking

[11:10] out of a chicken's egg.

[11:13] Somehow

[11:15] it all works perfectly.

[11:18] And so ask yourself,

[11:21] does the logical scientist in me believe

[11:27] that this all happened randomly?

[11:30] And for me as a scientist, the answer

[11:32] was always no. So,

[11:35] if you can't use

[11:38] religious experience or spiritual

[11:40] experience to believe, no problem. Go in

[11:43] with science.

[11:45] Last piece that I would say is,

[11:49] if you're really looking to believe,

[11:52] the very best way

[11:54] is to have an experience.

[11:56] Because then, no matter what anybody

[11:58] says,

[12:00] no matter what doesn't make sense or

[12:03] holds up under

[12:06] great,

[12:08] you know, cynicism or skepticism or

[12:13] doesn't matter.

[12:14] Cuz if you've had an experience,

[12:18] I mean, if anybody tried to convince any

[12:21] of us that love was simply a figment of

[12:24] our imaginations,

[12:27] it wouldn't really impact us because

[12:29] because we've all experienced love at

[12:31] some point in our life, whether for a

[12:32] parent,

[12:34] a child, a pet, a sibling, a loved one,

[12:37] a best friend.

[12:40] We've all at some point experienced

[12:42] love.

[12:43] And so, if someone says to you, "Ah, it

[12:45] doesn't exist. It's just a fake

[12:47] construct." You say, "Oh, yeah, you can

[12:49] believe whatever you want, but I've

[12:50] experienced it. Like, I know it exists."

[12:56] So, the best thing you can do is put

[12:59] yourself in situations

[13:03] in which you're open

[13:05] to the experience

[13:08] of being in the presence of the divine.

[13:11] Cuz then, you don't need to use your

[13:13] logical mind to believe it.

[13:16] Cuz then, you know it.

[13:20] Yeah, great question. Other questions?

[13:24] Any question that anyone has.

[13:31] Yeah, come, please.

[13:38] Namaste.

[13:40] >> Uh we are coming from Tamil Nadu.

[13:41] >> Okay, wonderful.

[13:42] >> Okay. Actually, last 3 years we are

[13:44] coming here.

[13:46] And

[13:47] uh we are having awesome in

[13:49] uh

[13:49] in

[13:50] Tamil Nadu also. We are doing

[13:52] meditation.

[13:53] But last 3 years what we are facing is

[13:56] so much of heat

[13:57] we are not able to meditate at all.

[13:59] But here when you when we come because

[14:01] of the Ganga and this cold environment,

[14:04] we are able to meditate.

[14:06] Uh so as I said last 3 years we are

[14:08] having high temperatures over there.

[14:11] Uh we are not able to even our body

[14:13] conditions also not

[14:15] like because stable due to the over

[14:18] temperature. We are not able to do any

[14:19] practice at all.

[14:20] >> Yeah.

[14:21] >> So in such a

[14:23] place, how do we retain these

[14:25] conditions?

[14:26] >> Great question. Great question.

[14:30] So it's too hot to meditate

[14:34] in Tamil Nadu where he is.

[14:39] There's two different pieces to this

[14:41] answer.

[14:43] Number one is the piece of

[14:47] whatever situation we are in,

[14:51] we should be able to meditate.

[14:53] That's the ideal. That's what it was

[14:55] given to us for.

[14:58] Meditation was not handed to us as do

[15:02] this

[15:05] on the days that it feels comfortable

[15:07] to.

[15:08] Do this when things are going well. Do

[15:11] this when you've had a good night's

[15:12] sleep. Do this when you are already in

[15:15] kind of a calm mood. Do this when you're

[15:17] not sweating too much.

[15:20] It was handed to us as a way

[15:24] of dealing with

[15:27] the fire,

[15:28] the heat

[15:30] inside of us

[15:33] and outside of us.

[15:37] But it's absolutely more challenging.

[15:39] It's one of the reasons, you know,

[15:42] Shri B.K.S. Iyengarji, the founder of

[15:45] Iyengar system of yoga,

[15:50] people used to say he's so focused

[15:54] only on the physical body.

[15:57] Why the body? Why such a an emphasis on

[16:00] the body?

[16:02] And his point was brilliant.

[16:05] He said, "Because if you sit to meditate

[16:09] and your back hurts,

[16:11] or your knees hurt,

[16:14] or your hips hurt, or you can't even sit

[16:18] because your legs won't even cross,

[16:22] you can't meditate.

[16:24] If you're so overcome with pain,

[16:28] you're not going to be able to meditate.

[16:30] So, let me help you create a body that

[16:35] is able to sit still long enough

[16:40] that you can meditate."

[16:42] So, we know that

[16:47] illness, pain,

[16:50] discomfort

[16:52] in the body and in the mind

[16:58] absolutely is a huge obstacle to

[17:00] meditation.

[17:02] And

[17:04] we have to meditate anyway.

[17:06] Because the point of meditation is that

[17:09] no matter what is going on in our bodies

[17:12] or in our minds,

[17:15] that we're able to access that,

[17:18] which isn't our body. Because that's

[17:21] what meditation shows us

[17:23] is who are you

[17:26] that isn't the body?

[17:28] That isn't your size or your shape or

[17:30] your color or your gender or your race

[17:33] or your religion.

[17:36] But that also isn't your temperature.

[17:39] And that isn't the sweat pouring down

[17:41] your back.

[17:44] Who are you

[17:47] that isn't

[17:49] the aching knees

[17:52] or the upset stomach

[17:55] or the grief over the loss of a loved

[17:57] one.

[17:59] Who are you who wasn't just fired from

[18:04] your job,

[18:06] left by a loved one.

[18:09] Cuz that's what meditation is for.

[18:12] Is it enables us to peel back the roles,

[18:17] peel back the attachment to the body.

[18:21] And whether it's the body in terms of my

[18:23] job, my relationships, my finances, my

[18:26] success,

[18:28] or whether it's the body literally like

[18:30] I am sweating,

[18:32] or I am in pain.

[18:35] Either way,

[18:36] meditation is meant to show us that,

[18:40] which is not the body.

[18:43] So, meditate anyway.

[18:45] And I'll give you actually also a

[18:47] personal personal story. So,

[18:50] in this very hall

[18:52] at 5:00 in the morning,

[18:55] we have the very traditional morning

[18:59] universal prayers.

[19:01] They used to be mandatory. When I first

[19:04] came here 30 years ago, the morning

[19:05] prayers were mandatory.

[19:08] Women this side, men this side.

[19:11] 30 minutes of

[19:13] a mix of Hindi and Sanskrit prayers and

[19:17] chants. And then 30 minutes of a

[19:20] discourse

[19:22] in Hindi.

[19:24] I didn't speak a word of Hindi, not a

[19:25] word. Namaste. I mean, I could Then a

[19:28] couple weeks later I learned dhanyavad.

[19:30] But like that was the beginning and the

[19:31] end of my Hindi.

[19:34] And I had no experience whatsoever

[19:39] in sitting on the ground.

[19:43] It's not something that in America we

[19:45] ever did.

[19:47] I didn't have a body that was used to

[19:49] it.

[19:50] And so I'd come and I'd sit.

[19:52] And what I discovered was, I mean, I was

[19:56] already a hatha yoga student, so I had

[19:58] some flexibility. I had done martial

[20:00] arts earlier in my life.

[20:02] And I found that I could sit

[20:05] 20, 25, 30 minutes or so, depending on

[20:08] the day,

[20:09] before I needed to change the cross of

[20:12] my legs, before they started aching too

[20:14] much.

[20:20] Typically,

[20:22] I could just easily, you know, just

[20:24] change the cross of your legs in the

[20:25] middle.

[20:26] However,

[20:27] sometimes,

[20:29] frequently in fact, it was so packed

[20:33] that there would be literally another

[20:34] woman like here.

[20:38] I kid you not.

[20:39] And in order to change the cross of my

[20:42] legs, I would essentially be like

[20:45] sticking my feet even momentarily

[20:48] into her rear end, not so polite.

[20:51] So, I couldn't do it.

[20:57] And in the beginning,

[21:00] it ached a lot.

[21:02] Hip would burn, knee would ache,

[21:04] everything hurt.

[21:07] And what I would try to do

[21:09] is ignore it.

[21:11] I'm not thinking about you. I'm not

[21:13] thinking about you. I'm not thinking

[21:14] about

[21:16] And as anybody who's ever tried to

[21:18] ignore anything knows, all that does is

[21:21] make it worse.

[21:25] And some at some point, I don't know

[21:28] how, but I got this divine

[21:32] message revelation download

[21:36] that said, "Instead of turning away from

[21:40] it,

[21:42] turn toward it."

[21:51] Instead of turning away from it,

[21:54] turn toward it.

[21:57] Instead of trying not to think about it,

[22:00] let that become your meditation.

[22:04] And so what I started doing was I

[22:06] started

[22:08] kind of playing with it.

[22:11] And I would go straight into the pain.

[22:15] And I would say things like,

[22:18] "Is this all you got?

[22:21] Can't you get any hotter than that?

[22:24] Oh, come on. Show me your best. Like,

[22:26] what do you got in there?

[22:28] You're burning, but I'm still here.

[22:32] You're aching, but I'm still here.

[22:35] I see you that ache, but I'm still here.

[22:39] And I would I would start

[22:43] kind of taunting it, playing with it.

[22:46] And what I discovered was something very

[22:48] interesting.

[22:50] It went away.

[22:53] It got less. When I turned away from it,

[22:55] it got more. I turned toward it,

[22:59] it got less.

[23:02] And so what I would say is when it's

[23:04] really hot

[23:07] and you find yourself just melting

[23:13] and you sit to meditate

[23:15] let the heat be the meditation. Dive

[23:18] into it, no problem.

[23:20] Pretend it's a Ganga.

[23:24] A warm Ganga washing over you.

[23:27] Oh Ganga, I feel you flowing down my

[23:29] shins.

[23:32] Oh Ganga, I feel you flowing down my

[23:34] spine.

[23:37] Oh Ganga

[23:39] feel you with me, right?

[23:41] Oh, I'm sitting in a pool of Ganga.

[23:47] Go into it. Don't turn away from it.

[23:50] What we resist, they say what you resist

[23:53] persists.

[23:55] The more you turn away, the

[23:58] stronger it gets.

[24:00] It's hot, okay.

[24:02] It's hot.

[24:03] You know, they we've got these wonderful

[24:05] stories of the Tibetan monks who sit in

[24:07] the snow

[24:10] up in the mountains, in the snow

[24:13] with wet towels on their bare backs and

[24:17] generate enough heat

[24:20] to dry the towels on their backs in the

[24:22] snow.

[24:27] It's the advanced phase.

[24:30] But I'm not asking you to cool the room.

[24:33] Just asking you to be able to be present

[24:36] in the heat.

[24:39] And if the meditation is om heat

[24:43] om heat, om gardez-moi or however you

[24:46] say it in Tamil. Om ga

[24:48] Okay.

[24:50] So it is.

[24:52] But don't let anything take you away

[24:54] from it. And then lastly

[24:58] this is happening

[24:59] because of climate change. And so, while

[25:02] meditation

[25:04] teaches us to be present with what is

[25:07] without trying to change it,

[25:09] when we stand up from our meditation, we

[25:12] realize we have a problem here.

[25:15] Our cities are running out of water.

[25:19] Sea levels are rising.

[25:21] Temperatures are increasing.

[25:23] People are getting sick and dying.

[25:28] What to do?

[25:30] Plant more trees.

[25:33] Use fewer fossil fuels.

[25:36] Start living a much more eco-friendly,

[25:39] eco-conscious life.

[25:42] Do seva for organizations that are

[25:45] protecting the environment.

[25:47] Just because our meditation teaches us

[25:50] to be present,

[25:52] doesn't mean that we stop acting.

[25:55] We just don't act while we're meditating

[25:56] in that moment.

[25:58] But as we rise from it,

[26:01] then we have to fix fix the situation.

[26:03] Today it's in Tamil Nadu, tomorrow it's

[26:05] going to be

[26:06] in Himachal Pradesh.

[26:10] It's not more than a few years before we

[26:12] have the same problem right up here in

[26:13] the mountains.

[26:16] So, we have to actually fix it.

[26:20] But as we're working to fix it, not let

[26:23] it steal our meditation.

[26:27] Yeah, great question.

[26:30] Other questions?

[26:39] Ah, yes. Come.

[26:41] Is sound good with you, brother?

[26:46] >> Hello.

[26:48] Um my question yesterday was in

[26:51] connection to the animals and the fire

[26:55] and the passion of

[26:57] the individual. Um and the question is

[27:00] pertaining to Dharma and what are the

[27:02] universal little hints that point us to

[27:06] the Dharma or um basically what is what

[27:10] is that?

[27:11] Great.

[27:12] So, Dharma.

[27:20] Dharma is translated in English in so

[27:23] many ways and none of them actually

[27:28] encompasses it. So, I'm going to I'm

[27:30] going to throw a bunch of words at you.

[27:34] And the definition of Dharma is going to

[27:36] be

[27:38] a a

[27:39] merging and melding and constellation of

[27:43] all of these words, not any of them

[27:45] individually.

[27:48] Highest purpose.

[27:51] Deepest truth.

[27:53] Right path.

[27:57] Duty and responsibility.

[28:00] Core essence.

[28:03] If you take all of those and you put

[28:06] them together,

[28:09] you start to begin to understand what

[28:11] Dharma is. So, it's who we are

[28:16] and it's what we're supposed to do.

[28:19] It's

[28:21] the universal umbrella of what you would

[28:24] consider righteousness,

[28:28] a moral life, an ethical life, a yogic

[28:31] life.

[28:32] And on the individual level,

[28:37] it's the rose becoming a rose, it's the

[28:39] jasmine becoming a jasmine, it's the

[28:41] apple seed becoming an apple tree.

[28:44] It's all of that.

[28:47] Global level, individual level,

[28:50] core essence level, action level.

[28:54] All of them weave into the definition of

[28:57] dharma.

[29:01] We think about it sometimes as purpose,

[29:04] but purpose is only a piece of it cuz

[29:07] purpose is the what to do.

[29:10] Whereas dharma is also the who I am.

[29:14] And like purpose, though,

[29:17] our dharma can change throughout our

[29:19] lives. So, for example,

[29:23] in Indian tradition,

[29:25] we speak about four phases of life or

[29:28] four ashrams of life

[29:31] or four dharmas of life.

[29:33] First phase,

[29:35] brahmacharya ashram.

[29:38] Brahmacharya dharma.

[29:41] Your student years.

[29:44] During which your dharma is to study.

[29:48] Study, study, study.

[29:52] In school, in books,

[29:54] and in life.

[29:56] This swadhyaya,

[29:59] self-study.

[30:01] So, it's not just book knowledge. It's

[30:02] knowledge of the self. Who am I?

[30:05] It's why traditionally

[30:08] kids were sent not just to school, but

[30:11] they were sent to live with the guru.

[30:14] To get an education of books, but also

[30:17] an education of self.

[30:20] Then we have the grihastha ashram phase

[30:23] or grihastha dharma.

[30:26] It's your householder phase of life.

[30:28] Your dharma

[30:30] is to be married, have kids, have a job,

[30:33] make money, donate some of that money to

[30:36] worthwhile causes, help the community,

[30:40] be an active, engaged,

[30:43] >> [snorts]

[30:43] >> positive

[30:45] member of your family,

[30:47] member of your extended family, member

[30:49] of your community.

[30:53] Then we have vanaprastha ashram or

[30:56] vanaprastha dharma.

[30:58] It's kind of retirement age.

[31:02] Kids are grown if you had them.

[31:05] They don't need you to be packing

[31:06] lunches or changing diapers.

[31:10] Money's been made.

[31:12] Food's been put on the table. Things

[31:14] have been taken care of. There's a bit

[31:16] of a nest egg.

[31:20] These are not the days to be putting in,

[31:22] you know, 100-hour work weeks.

[31:25] These are the days to start slowly,

[31:28] slowly looking at how to get more and

[31:31] more

[31:34] withdrawn from it

[31:35] so that you can dive more deeply within

[31:37] the self.

[31:39] And then the final phase, the sannyasa

[31:41] ashram phase,

[31:43] the landing phase of life, as Pujya

[31:45] Swamiji says.

[31:47] You never know. You never know when it's

[31:49] going to end. So, you want to You want

[31:50] to end it in a way in which you don't

[31:53] have your fingers gripped on something

[31:55] here,

[31:57] and that you're really clear with who is

[32:00] the I

[32:02] who's going on the next phase of the

[32:04] journey, cuz the body's not going.

[32:06] The skills, the abilities, the bank

[32:08] account, not going.

[32:10] House isn't going. Car isn't going.

[32:12] Who's the I who goes on the next phase

[32:15] of the body I mean, the next phase of

[32:17] the journey

[32:18] when the body's been burned.

[32:21] But,

[32:25] in addition to that,

[32:27] in addition to all of that,

[32:28] we also have another way of thinking

[32:30] about it. We talk about the purusharths,

[32:33] the four goals of life,

[32:35] the right goals of life,

[32:37] Dharma.

[32:39] Arth, Dharma we've defined, Arth. Arth

[32:43] means wealth basically.

[32:46] Prosperity, it's the stuff you get.

[32:48] Absolutely no problem, have it. However

[32:50] much

[32:51] you are meant to have.

[32:53] Let it come so that you can then share,

[32:56] so that you can do your Dharma.

[33:00] Kama

[33:02] the pleasures of life, the enjoyment of

[33:06] life.

[33:07] Moksha,

[33:09] liberation, awakening.

[33:11] These are the goals.

[33:13] At every phase, certainly at certain

[33:15] phases we're more inclined towards

[33:18] certain goals, but ultimately throughout

[33:20] our life

[33:22] these four goals

[33:24] should be in operation. So, I'm giving

[33:26] you a lot of different pieces so that

[33:29] you understand how big the concept of

[33:32] Dharma is.

[33:36] To me, the most critical important part

[33:39] of it, specifically in the way that

[33:41] you've asked about it in terms of

[33:45] animals are being hurt, people are being

[33:47] hurt, climate change, this, that

[33:50] is summed up

[33:53] in what I call the yes and

[33:59] school of spirituality.

[34:02] Yes and.

[34:04] And

[34:05] it's not my school. I mean, it's

[34:07] certainly the one that I live in, learn

[34:10] from, teach from, but I didn't create

[34:13] it.

[34:15] I gave it the cute name, but I didn't

[34:17] create it. It goes as far back

[34:21] as Bhagwan Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita

[34:25] who tells Arjuna in perhaps my most

[34:28] favorite

[34:30] simple, simple, simple teaching.

[34:34] Mamman is smart, you the acharya.

[34:37] Remember me,

[34:39] fight the war.

[34:40] Yes, and yes, it's all God. Remember me.

[34:45] Krishna is telling Arjun.

[34:47] Arjun's the warrior. He's afraid.

[34:50] He doesn't want to fight. He's standing

[34:52] in the middle of a battlefield and he

[34:54] says, "I'm

[34:56] I'm shaking.

[34:58] Today we would call it a panic attack.

[35:01] Literally, physiologically, he had a

[35:03] panic attack.

[35:06] He was sweating, his heart rate was up,

[35:08] he had goosebumps.

[35:10] He literally said, "The hair is standing

[35:12] up on my arms."

[35:19] And in response to his panic attack and

[35:22] his inclination,

[35:25] as anyone who's ever had a panic attack

[35:27] knows,

[35:29] is to say, "Forget it. Whatever I was

[35:31] doing that created this experience in

[35:33] me, forget it. It's not worth it.

[35:38] I'm going to go off and meditate in the

[35:40] cave."

[35:44] And Krishna,

[35:45] the divine,

[35:48] says,

[35:50] "Not so fast.

[35:53] You're going to stand right here.

[35:57] And you're going to do your dharma

[36:01] to fight this war."

[36:03] And we get 700 verses of the Bhagavad

[36:06] Gita

[36:08] that to me really are summed up

[36:13] in the Mamman is smart, you the acharya.

[36:16] Remember me. It means all of these

[36:19] hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of

[36:21] verses that we're given about what is

[36:23] the divine,

[36:24] the nature of the soul, the nature of

[36:27] infinite reality.

[36:29] The nature of consciousness.

[36:32] The nature of the divine.

[36:35] The nature of the perfection of the

[36:37] divine.

[36:40] Remember me.

[36:42] And

[36:44] So yes, it's all God. Aham Brahma Asmi.

[36:48] Tat Tvam Asi. I am Brahman. Thou art

[36:51] that. There is nothing but God. And

[36:55] pick up those arrows and bow.

[36:59] Aim. Fire.

[37:02] Yes, and

[37:04] remember me.

[37:06] It's all the divine.

[37:08] And

[37:11] do your duty.

[37:13] Fulfill your dharma.

[37:18] On the the one level, doesn't matter.

[37:22] Arjuna says, "I could die.

[37:25] I could kill them."

[37:28] Krishna gives

[37:30] full beautiful chapter pretty much.

[37:33] Chapter two of the Bhagavad Gita, why

[37:35] you are not the one who's going to die

[37:37] ever.

[37:40] You are not the one who is born. You are

[37:42] not the one who dies. You are that.

[37:45] Cannot be burned by fire. Cannot be wet

[37:48] by water.

[37:49] Cannot be cut with knives. Cannot be

[37:51] dried by the wind.

[37:57] And you're going to kill them? Like

[37:59] really?

[38:00] Who died and left you God?

[38:03] Who died and left you in charge of who

[38:05] lives and who dies?

[38:09] Where'd that delusion come from?

[38:12] I mean really, it's this very hard core

[38:14] like and exactly who do you think you

[38:17] are who gets to decide who lives and who

[38:19] dies?

[38:21] Get out of the illusion.

[38:23] Get out of the delusion.

[38:24] You are at best an instrument in my

[38:28] hands. Nimit.

[38:30] Be an instrument.

[38:33] Yes, and it's all God, it's all perfect.

[38:38] It's all unchanging, it's eternal, it's

[38:41] infinite. You are inseparable from the

[38:44] ocean.

[38:46] You are the ocean.

[38:48] And

[38:50] in this wave form that you have taken at

[38:53] this moment.

[38:56] Your duty, your dharma

[38:58] is to fight this war.

[39:01] Not half-heartedly.

[39:03] Not haphazardly.

[39:06] Not

[39:07] indifferently.

[39:10] But fully and completely to the very

[39:13] best of everything you've got,

[39:15] selflessly.

[39:19] And he gives these beautiful, beautiful,

[39:22] I mean, on and on about

[39:25] how one not only should fight a battle,

[39:27] but how to live.

[39:29] The compassion, the friendliness, the

[39:32] forgiveness, the equanimity. I mean, he

[39:35] really gives us lists

[39:39] of how to do this wave thing.

[39:43] And

[39:45] remember it's all an illusion, you're

[39:46] actually ocean.

[39:51] And

[39:55] get up and fight.

[39:57] And so it's this beautiful way. So

[40:00] that's That to me is where dharma lies.

[40:04] Is in the awareness of the true essence.

[40:08] Because otherwise I'm the doer.

[40:10] Otherwise, like, "Hey, did you notice

[40:12] I'm the I'm the one doing everything.

[40:15] Where's my gold star? Where's my

[40:17] appreciation? Why am I the one who has

[40:19] to do everything? It's not fair.

[40:22] His seva is more fun than my seva. It's

[40:25] not fair.

[40:27] Why is she getting credit for work I

[40:29] did? It's not fair.

[40:32] Right? You see, otherwise it it just

[40:33] pollutes our minds and our lives.

[40:39] So, we remember.

[40:42] Doing is happening

[40:43] through me.

[40:45] With my full surrender,

[40:48] full sincerity,

[40:50] but I am not the doer.

[40:52] I am the one through whom doing is

[40:55] happening. And when I'm in alignment,

[40:58] grounded, anchored, surrendered, then

[41:01] the doing that is happening through me

[41:04] is my dharma.

[41:08] Does that make sense?

[41:09] >> Yes.

[41:09] >> Good.

[41:09] >> Thank you.

[41:10] >> Yes, of course.

[41:12] Yes.

[41:32] >> Pranam.

[41:34] Uh so, for whatever you said towards the

[41:37] end, I am very keen to know if someone

[41:39] else's non-mindfulness

[41:41] is considered your own karmic fruit.

[41:44] Because for all the injustice going on

[41:47] in the world with whosoever uh any

[41:49] innocent, is it their karmic mindfulness

[41:52] to bear or is it that the person is not

[41:55] being mindful?

[41:57] >> Great.

[42:01] Yes.

[42:05] Yes.

[42:08] Yes, it is the person not being mindful.

[42:12] Or skillful.

[42:14] Or present.

[42:15] or that they don't have in their karmic

[42:17] toolbox that which is required in the

[42:20] moment.

[42:22] Maybe patience is required.

[42:25] Maybe loyalty is required.

[42:28] Maybe compassion is required.

[42:31] Maybe tenderness is required.

[42:34] Maybe justice is required.

[42:36] But maybe their toolbox doesn't have any

[42:38] of those things.

[42:40] Maybe all they've got is anger,

[42:43] fear,

[42:45] violence, impatience,

[42:48] hatred of self and others.

[42:51] So whether it's their lack of

[42:53] mindfulness,

[42:55] whether it's their lack of skillfulness,

[42:58] whether it's their empty toolbox,

[43:02] they are the ones

[43:05] bringing that pain, that harm,

[43:09] that lack of skillfulness

[43:12] that

[43:12] has ripple impacts of suffering

[43:15] into that moment.

[43:17] And yes, it is your karmic package

[43:24] that has made your karmic thread

[43:27] interweave with their karmic thread

[43:30] into a tapestry

[43:34] of lessons for you, karmic experiences

[43:38] for you that teach you,

[43:41] that help you grow,

[43:43] that make you go deeper and deeper.

[43:47] But it isn't

[43:48] reward or punishment.

[43:51] And it is not meant to make us be

[43:55] complacent

[43:57] or lazy.

[43:59] So

[44:01] right here, right now, in this moment,

[44:06] you are in a situation

[44:10] that your karmic package has created

[44:15] based on all of your past actions

[44:18] all of the fruits of those actions

[44:22] that which is most conducive for you

[44:26] to take your next step closer to the

[44:28] divine

[44:30] intersecting

[44:32] with the karmic threads of all these

[44:34] other people

[44:36] those you walked in here knowing those

[44:38] you walked in not knowing

[44:40] the questions that came before yours

[44:41] your question for them

[44:44] intersecting

[44:45] karmic threads.

[44:48] However

[44:51] that awareness and that truth

[44:55] brings us to and explains

[44:59] this very moment.

[45:03] And let's assume that you come in here

[45:05] and you sit down

[45:07] cuz this is the karmic fruit

[45:09] and it turns out that where you're

[45:12] sitting

[45:14] there's a leak

[45:16] and it's raining

[45:19] and water is dripping on your head from

[45:21] the leak above

[45:24] or there's a person sitting next to you

[45:26] who's fallen asleep and is snoring

[45:29] really loudly

[45:31] and you can't hear anything that's going

[45:33] on cuz the guy next sitting next to you

[45:35] is snoring so loudly

[45:37] or you're sitting next to a kid who

[45:39] keeps

[45:40] you know, poking you in the stomach

[45:42] every time you try to close your eyes

[45:44] and meditate and they're just you know,

[45:46] poking you all over the place.

[45:50] Just because

[45:52] it is your karmic journey that has

[45:55] brought you here

[45:57] doesn't mean

[45:59] that you shouldn't get up and change

[46:01] seats.

[46:08] Did you land up here and in that seat

[46:11] because of intersecting karmic threads?

[46:14] Absolutely.

[46:16] Is it somebody else's lack of

[46:19] mindfulness, lack of skillfulness that's

[46:22] causing them to snore or poke you?

[46:25] That may be just a lack of maturity.

[46:29] Lack of good contracting makes the leaf

[46:32] the the roof leak.

[46:34] Yes and yes.

[46:37] But you also have free will.

[46:40] And that free will is what you use to

[46:42] create the next moment

[46:44] and the next moment.

[46:47] And just because you are sitting next to

[46:49] someone

[46:51] who's troubling you in this moment

[46:54] or under a leaky roof

[46:57] doesn't mean you have to stay put.

[46:59] Change seats.

[47:02] Whip out your umbrella.

[47:07] Tell the kids' mother to make them stop

[47:09] poking you. Whatever you need to do.

[47:10] Wake up the guy who's snoring.

[47:13] There's nothing in our scriptures that

[47:15] says thou shalt be complacent.

[47:21] I think

[47:22] thou shalt just accept and tolerate all

[47:26] forms of harm and abuse without ever

[47:28] trying to do anything.

[47:31] I think says that. The Bhagavad Gita's a

[47:33] the

[47:34] treatise given on a battlefield to a

[47:36] warrior. Stand up. Fight.

[47:39] Those guys are going against dharma.

[47:44] Fix it.

[47:48] And whether it's climate change

[47:51] whether it's somebody harming you or

[47:54] harming others

[47:57] we can't always change it. I was talking

[47:59] last night.

[48:01] There's so much we cannot change.

[48:05] But it doesn't mean that we give up the

[48:06] idea of changing anything.

[48:10] We change what we can.

[48:15] Without hating those who have made the

[48:17] situation the way it is.

[48:20] Cuz as I was saying last night that

[48:21] hatred is a very fast burning fuel and

[48:24] then you're over or you're finished and

[48:27] you have no more energy left

[48:29] to bring the changes that you need to

[48:31] bring.

[48:32] To do the work you need to do.

[48:40] So we realize we're here in this moment

[48:42] from the

[48:43] karma

[48:45] of the past, the karmic fruits of the

[48:47] past.

[48:48] And then we say, "Okay, right here,

[48:49] right now.

[48:52] How can I use my dharma,

[48:55] my free will,

[48:58] my shakti, my buddhi,

[49:02] my power, my intelligence

[49:07] to create a better tomorrow,

[49:10] a better next week,

[49:12] a better next month?

[49:16] Cuz that's what we're called to do.

[49:18] That's the end of the yes and. Yes, it's

[49:20] all the divine. Yes, it's all God and

[49:24] stand up and fight this way.

[49:30] Yes, beautiful.

[49:32] So we're going to

[49:34] we're going to bring satsang to an end

[49:37] for this evening.

[49:39] But the questions that we didn't have a

[49:40] chance to take, we will

[49:43] start with tomorrow morning and

[49:45] tomorrow. I see one was there and one

[49:47] was there. We'll start with your

[49:50] questions tomorrow and if

[49:52] by chance you can't be here tomorrow

[49:56] you can give your questions in in

[49:58] writing give them to our save

[50:02] box in the back where you can put them

[50:06] and we'll take them then they'll end up

[50:07] on this

[50:08] wonderful piece of paper that we always

[50:10] start with

[50:12] and

[50:13] we'll keep taking them.

[50:16] And so

[50:18] so much love to all of you.

[50:20] We do live stream this as mentioned for

[50:24] our

[50:25] sisters and brothers who can't be here

[50:26] personally which means when you leave

[50:31] stay connected.

[50:34] Send in whatever question arises for

[50:36] you. Our our goal is not just

[50:40] a one-off situation.

[50:43] The goal is the building of community.

[50:45] That's Sangha.

[50:47] So that you know

[50:49] there's always a place a physical place

[50:52] to come

[50:53] and when you can't come physically

[50:56] that online

[50:59] through all of these the actual positive

[51:01] side of technology and social media all

[51:04] the different channels and ways

[51:07] that you can stay connected. So

[51:11] have a beautiful beautiful night

[51:14] and I look so forward to seeing

[51:17] hopefully most of you tomorrow.

Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati
ArtistSadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati

Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati is a Hindu spiritual leader and author based at Parmarth Niketan ashram in Rishikesh. Born in Los Angeles, she left a life in Hollywood to pursue monasti…

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Frequently Asked Questions

Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati says yes, and describes her own route: she was raised without religion, but reasoned from a 'capital P plan' that implied a planner. She argues that a skeptic's scientific reasoning can also lead toward belief, and that a personal experience of the divine, like the experience of love, makes argument unnecessary.
In the broadcast, she recounts years of biology, chemistry, and physics labs where following instructions never produced life. She argues that no researcher has created even a mosquito or a living leaf in a crucible or Petri dish, and that random chance does not account for consistent natural order such as apple seeds always producing apples.
The excerpt of this satsang does not fully resolve the question. She frames the harmer as someone acting from inner states like anger, and the encounter as holding karmic lessons, but the piece does not claim she equates karma with passive acceptance. Watching the full section is the best way to see her complete position.
Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati says purpose is only one piece of dharma. She turns to the Bhagavad Gita and Arjuna's battlefield dilemma, suggesting that dharma is best understood through the Gita's teaching about the self, rather than through a fixed list of external signs.
This question is taken up in the broadcast, but the portion available for this article contains only fragments, referencing posture, sitting on the ground, and the legs. Her full remedy is in the timestamped section of the complete video, which the article does not reconstruct.
The talk is a livestreamed satsang from the Satsang Hall at Parmarth Niketan, published on the Sadhviji YouTube channel on September 30, 2026. The description lists four topics: belief in God, meditation in heat, dharma, and karma and acceptance.

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