Transcript
[0:00] If you go to like downtown LA, it's just
[0:02] people ordering DoorDash from their
[0:03] studio apartments and going dating
[0:05] online and working to live and just
[0:07] being sad and lonely. The major cities
[0:09] have been gentrified to the point of of,
[0:11] you know, there being like really no
[0:13] cohesion. Like the community has kind of
[0:15] collapsed like a lords and peasants
[0:16] style class structure.
[0:18] >> It's why I'm pushing everybody in my
[0:19] generation to go back to rural living.
[0:21] Not fully off the grid homesteading, but
[0:23] to go and like live in the in small
[0:25] towns outside the cities. At least city
[0:27] kids like me. Like right now I live in a
[0:28] town in the Mojave Desert with 220
[0:30] people. I pay 400 bucks a month in rent.
[0:33] I know everyone in town from the old to
[0:35] the young and I feel like I'm a part of
[0:36] something. Can you say the name of the
[0:38] town?
[0:52] >> I can say that it's in between
[0:58] >> Hey there, it's me Rainn Wilson and I
[1:01] want to dig into the human experience. I
[1:03] want to have conversations about a
[1:04] spiritual revolution. Let's get deep
[1:07] with our favorite thinkers, friends, and
[1:08] entertainers about life, meaning, and
[1:12] idiocy.
[1:13] Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast.
[1:21] Our show would not be possible without
[1:22] our sponsors, Growth Therapy, Cowboy
[1:24] Colostrum, and Fencer. Links and promo
[1:26] codes on screen and in the description.
[1:28] Enjoy the show.
[1:30] Soul Boom is a show about spiritual
[1:33] tools for modern problems and
[1:36] you know, usually with my guests, I like
[1:38] to dig into kind of
[1:41] spiritual quandaries, mental health
[1:43] issues, yeah, but I also view you as
[1:47] someone that I really haven't spoken to
[1:49] the likes of you on this show, which is
[1:51] someone at the at the front lines, at
[1:53] the cutting edge of a lot of fringe
[1:55] culture, a journalism, you know, what's
[1:58] going on, you know, politically around
[2:00] the world. You just got back from the
[2:01] West Bank. And number one, the thesis of
[2:06] my book and the show is that we need a
[2:08] spiritual revolution. Would you agree
[2:10] with that? Disagree? How would you see
[2:13] some kind of spiritual revolution
[2:15] happening in the world? And do you think
[2:18] it's possible? And do you think it could
[2:21] make a positive
[2:22] impact?
[2:23] >> I hope so, man. I mean,
[2:26] I don't really know what spirituality
[2:27] means. I wish I could offer something
[2:29] more substantive, but I guess
[2:31] knowing that like if you have the right
[2:33] intentions in life, like things will
[2:35] work themselves out. And then knowing
[2:37] who you are and following like the path
[2:38] that you feel is right, yeah, will
[2:41] ultimately land you where you want to
[2:42] be. Like I do believe in like a force of
[2:45] good existing like above us and around
[2:47] us as something like governs affairs.
[2:49] Believe like in love as like the sauce
[2:50] of life.
[2:51] >> Well, that I like the sauce of life and
[2:54] the source of life. But I can help
[2:56] define spirituality for you.
[2:57] >> Yeah, yeah.
[2:58] >> It's anything a monkey can't do.
[3:00] >> Mhm.
[3:01] >> So, there's a lot of stuff we do as
[3:02] humans that monkeys can do, right? We
[3:04] we throw our poop,
[3:06] you know, we eat, we sleep, we form
[3:09] communities, and that's all great.
[3:11] There's nothing wrong with any of those
[3:12] kind of more animal-like aspects of our
[3:15] nature. But then there's stuff like
[3:17] creating art, seeking transcendence,
[3:20] appreciating beauty, considering our
[3:22] mortality, reflecting on choices that
[3:25] we're making, wanting to cultivate
[3:27] positive virtues with one another,
[3:30] loving people that are even beyond our
[3:32] tribe even when it's difficult,
[3:35] cultivating compassion. So, those are
[3:37] that's what I would That's how I would
[3:39] define it.
[3:40] >> That helps me. Well, maybe the closest
[3:41] thing that I I would consider
[3:44] to be a spiritual experience is like
[3:46] being able to film something in the
[3:48] field and like really connect with
[3:50] someone's story and like be able to
[3:52] absorb their message and then using the
[3:55] platform that I have
[3:56] distribute that message to millions of
[3:59] people.
[4:00] >> Yeah.
[4:00] >> That feels like I've alchemized
[4:02] something from like out of thin air.
[4:04] >> Yeah.
[4:05] >> That feels like a spiritual gesture. If
[4:08] that makes sense.
[4:08] >> It totally makes sense and I think that
[4:11] for many artists, creators, but also
[4:15] doctors or architects,
[4:18] uh
[4:18] there is that component to our mission
[4:23] and what we do. You were obviously doing
[4:25] what you were meant to be doing even
[4:27] though this all started as like a you
[4:29] taking a hitchhiking trip and wanting to
[4:31] document it, uh you know, as a lark. And
[4:35] I I do think that you know, there's an
[4:38] expression of our highest nature that
[4:40] can come through the skills that we gain
[4:42] in in the world.
[4:43] >> So maybe spirituality could be related
[4:45] to work ethic.
[4:47] You know, my first answer was going to
[4:48] be I can't pursue any sort of spiritual
[4:50] practice because I spend every waking
[4:52] second trying to do the next thing and
[4:54] create the next documentary and like,
[4:55] you know, but I mean I do enjoy it. It
[4:57] feels like a spiritual practice. It
[4:58] feels like a religious pursuit a little
[5:00] bit.
[5:00] >> From from my spiritual tradition, there
[5:02] is a phrase that says work in the spirit
[5:04] of service is worship in the eyes of
[5:07] God. So
[5:09] yeah, work for the accruing of money is
[5:12] something different. But that's what
[5:13] you're talking about. You're like, "Oh
[5:14] my god, I met this incredible person. I
[5:16] want to tell their story." And look at
[5:17] that, I put it up and got a million and
[5:19] a half views. And people are like, "Wow,
[5:21] what an what an awesome human being you
[5:23] found out there in the field, Andrew.
[5:24] Thank you. I never would have thought I
[5:26] would have gotten to see that story."
[5:29] There is a total alignment there and
[5:31] that
[5:32] from from where I'm coming from is a
[5:34] form of actual worship.
[5:36] >> Yeah, and especially if you can be a
[5:39] gateway to inspire somebody. That's the
[5:41] most exciting part. You know, like the
[5:43] coolest thing someone could say to me is
[5:45] like I hitchhiked because of you or I
[5:48] was going to go, you know, work some
[5:50] finance job that I hated, but then I saw
[5:51] you take your own way, so I decided to
[5:53] take my own way. And I'm like, "Wow,
[5:54] that's so crazy that, you know, pursuing
[5:57] the things that I
[5:58] love have made other people want to do
[6:00] that as well." And that's an amazing
[6:02] feeling.
[6:03] >> Are there hundreds of young Andrew
[6:04] Callahans out there with cameras and
[6:06] camper vans and suit jackets running
[6:08] around trying to
[6:09] >> Not not with the camper van, but there's
[6:11] hundreds of young
[6:13] mostly Caucasian males with microphones
[6:14] and suit jackets.
[6:15] >> And little micro and little mustaches?
[6:17] >> No, no, no mustaches. Some of them have
[6:19] A's Hotel millennial mustaches. I also
[6:21] believe in a higher power though.
[6:22] >> Okay. Hey everybody, make sure to click
[6:24] subscribe. It's right over here
[6:26] somewhere, please, pretty please. It
[6:28] would help us at Soulboom so much. Click
[6:30] subscribe.
[6:32] >> which is like the road. I don't mean
[6:34] like the concrete thoroughfares that
[6:35] enable road trips.
[6:36] >> Yeah.
[6:36] >> I'm talking about this like just like
[6:39] rolling the dice, like the road, like
[6:41] aimless travel, like um
[6:43] the transitory state that you enter when
[6:46] you just surrender
[6:48] with complete spiritual submission to
[6:50] the higher power that is the road,
[6:53] capital R. And the road gods, I think
[6:55] everyone has their own road gods, but
[6:56] some Ed Burn who wrote Vagabonding in
[6:58] America, David Choe is a road god,
[7:00] Hunter S. Thompson is a definitely a
[7:01] road god, you know, all the highwaymen
[7:02] of the past
[7:04] that can kind of guide you. They speak
[7:06] through the thunder and the clouds.
[7:07] >> What do you got, three?
[7:08] >> Yeah, everyone, you know, there's
[7:09] different people.
[7:10] >> Mhm.
[7:11] >> But the road is a
[7:12] >> Jack Kerouac.
[7:13] >> Yeah, the road is a place that exists
[7:15] like outside of mainstream American
[7:16] consciousness. It's like a purgatory or
[7:18] like a separate dimension full of like,
[7:21] you know, vagabonds, hitchhikers, some
[7:23] artists, probably some serial killers. I
[7:24] mean, there, you know, the road is
[7:26] gnarly, but that it's that when you hit
[7:27] the road, there's something that
[7:30] I just feel if you truly submit to where
[7:32] the road will take you, the open
[7:34] American interstate system, it will
[7:35] reward you with everything you were
[7:36] looking for. You just have to talk to
[7:38] everybody, keep an open mind.
[7:39] >> How aren't we lucky to live in North
[7:41] America where the road is a thing cuz if
[7:43] you if you lived in like Belgium or
[7:45] Luxembourg, there ain't no road.
[7:48] >> That's what it freaked me out the most
[7:50] when I drove from Berlin to like Ukraine
[7:52] is that there was no like Pilot or like
[7:55] Loves or Flying J Travel Centers. You
[7:57] know, where you can get a big corn dog.
[7:58] >> Yeah.
[7:59] >> Nothing. You can't get a 10-gallon hat
[8:00] or a corn dog or a neon safety vest or
[8:03] you know, you know, you've been
[8:04] obviously you've been to Buckee's
[8:05] before.
[8:05] >> Sure.
[8:06] >> You know, they have those warm cashews
[8:08] covered in brown sugar cooking in the
[8:09] little microwave thing.
[8:10] >> Yeah, they smell so good. I bet you
[8:12] can't find those in the entire continent
[8:13] of Europe.
[8:14] >> You cannot, but you can find a Sbarro's
[8:16] though. It's pretty sad the the the fast
[8:19] food chains that come make their way to
[8:21] Europe. Like, "Oh, no. Really? You got
[8:23] that one?"
[8:25] >> I'm surprised they got Sbarro. Sbarro,
[8:27] I don't want to offend the
[8:30] Sbarro's not my favorite. Okay.
[8:32] >> No, Sbarro's is not my favorite either.
[8:34] There's a great Sbarro's joke in The
[8:36] Office where Michael Scott goes to New
[8:37] York City. He's like, "Ah, New York
[8:39] pizza." And he goes into Sbarro's.
[8:40] >> Mhm.
[8:41] >> Um
[8:42] but
[8:43] I love that you're afraid of offending
[8:45] Sbarro's
[8:46] company and fans
[8:49] cuz
[8:50] you know, in this conversation I imagine
[8:52] you're you're going to be offending all
[8:53] kinds of different groups of people, but
[8:55] you're a little bit hesitant about the
[8:57] Sbarro's at all.
[8:58] >> Well, yeah, because you know, someone's
[8:59] working a dead-end job at Sbarro right
[9:01] now and they're you know, a fan of mine
[9:03] or a supporter of mine and they put
[9:04] their all into making those sandwiches
[9:06] with the sub sandwiches. I don't want
[9:08] them to like feel discouraged and
[9:09] >> they make sub sandwiches. I think it's
[9:11] pizza.
[9:12] >> Sbarro makes pizza?
[9:13] >> I think that's a pizza place.
[9:15] >> No way, dude. Sbarro's not pizza, man.
[9:18] >> the pizza place? What's the pizza chain?
[9:20] What am I thinking of?
[9:21] >> John's.
[9:22] Sbarro doesn't make pizza.
[9:23] >> Sbarro's a pizza place.
[9:25] >> So, if someone's taking a Sbarro pie out
[9:27] of the oven, I don't want them to go
[9:28] home after a long day.
[9:30] >> Just stop talking. I've lost so much
[9:31] respect for you right now. I can't even
[9:33] >> Folks, personal growth isn't some
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[11:43] Yeehaw!
[11:44] >> What's your Seattle connection?
[11:45] >> Well, I grew up there pretty much from
[11:47] age 10 to 18.
[11:49] >> You were in the middle of Seattle.
[11:51] Where'd you go to high school?
[11:52] >> Juanita High School.
[11:53] >> Oh, Hell yeah. Big K-Town. I went
[11:55] to Northwest.
[11:56] >> Okay, on Capitol Hill.
[11:57] >> I grew up there pretty much from age 10
[11:59] to 18.
[12:01] >> Okay.
[12:01] >> Madison Park, Capitol Hill, Central
[12:03] District,
[12:04] >> Yeah.
[12:04] >> downtown, Pioneer Square, First Hill,
[12:06] like just central area.
[12:07] >> Okay. Kids could get crazy up in there.
[12:10] >> I was one of those crazy kids up in
[12:11] there.
[12:12] >> One thing that's weird about Seattle is
[12:14] cuz I left for a long time and I was in
[12:16] Chicago, then I was in Boston, I was in
[12:17] New York a little while, then I came
[12:18] back for a bit, and it was really uncool
[12:22] at a certain point in time in Seattle, I
[12:24] think in the '90s, to ask what people
[12:27] did.
[12:28] >> Mhm.
[12:28] >> You didn't You didn't go up to someone
[12:30] like at a party and say, "What do you
[12:31] do?" Like that was considered really
[12:33] like gauche.
[12:34] >> So there was no networking.
[12:36] >> Yeah, and it was no It didn't Your
[12:37] personality, your identity is not
[12:39] defined by your occupation. Whereas like
[12:42] in New York, in Chicago, in Boston, very
[12:44] much is. Like, "I'm in law school. I'm a
[12:46] lawyer. I'm a I'm an environmentalist.
[12:48] I'm a I'm an artist." But in Seattle,
[12:52] it's kind of like, "What do you like to
[12:53] do?" Cuz in Seattle, there is a lot of
[12:56] people that are Their careers are
[12:58] secondary. They're there for lifestyle.
[13:00] >> And
[13:01] >> Yeah.
[13:01] >> I used to kind of judge that, but now I
[13:03] think maybe they were right. Like, "Oh,
[13:05] you know, I'm in a bluegrass band and I
[13:07] like to kayak, you know, and I collect,
[13:10] you know, bobblehead dolls or something
[13:13] like that." And that's that's their
[13:15] life. Whatever they do to make money,
[13:17] sell insurance or work at a coffee bar,
[13:19] who cares?
[13:20] >> Yeah, they're not climbing the corporate
[13:21] ladder. They're not obsessed with like
[13:22] the next thing and reaching the next
[13:24] tier in achievement in the career, is
[13:25] that you're are saying?
[13:26] >> Yes, exactly. And And again, I do think
[13:30] that it is a failing in contemporary
[13:32] America that so much of our identity is
[13:35] tied to what we do for a living.
[13:37] >> Yeah, it's why I'm pushing everybody in
[13:39] my generation to go back to rural
[13:41] living. Not fully off the grid
[13:42] homesteading, but like, you know, the
[13:44] cities, the major cities have been
[13:46] gentrified to the point of of, you know,
[13:49] there being like really no cohesion.
[13:50] Like the community has kind of
[13:51] collapsed. It's like a lords and
[13:53] peasants style class structure. Even if
[13:54] you go to like downtown LA, it's just
[13:56] people ordering DoorDash from their
[13:58] studio apartments and going dating
[13:59] online and working to live and just
[14:01] being sad and lonely. So, I always
[14:03] encourage people nowadays to go and like
[14:06] live in the in small towns outside the
[14:08] cities. At least city kids like me. Like
[14:09] right now, I live in a town in the
[14:10] Mojave Desert with 220 people. I pay 400
[14:13] bucks a month in rent. I know everyone
[14:15] in town from the old to the young, and I
[14:17] feel like I'm a part of something.
[14:18] >> Can you say the name of the town?
[14:20] >> I can say that it's in between Palm
[14:23] Springs and Mexicali.
[14:24] >> Okay.
[14:25] >> Yeah. In Mexicali.
[14:26] >> that's some serious desert out there.
[14:28] >> Yeah, but it's like it kind of reminds
[14:29] me of how neighborhoods used to be back
[14:31] in the day. You know, when they didn't
[14:33] constantly always turn over because
[14:34] Amazon moved their corporate campus to
[14:36] where you lived at. When like when you
[14:37] could have a neighborhood where you came
[14:39] back a decade later and it was still the
[14:40] same mom and pop shops. There wasn't
[14:42] this like constant community destruction
[14:44] turnover rent spike thing that you see
[14:46] everywhere.
[14:47] >> You're sounding like a Seattle radical
[14:48] right now.
[14:49] You're You're sounding like you're like
[14:52] you you're going for class warfare.
[14:54] >> I am.
[14:56] >> But it is true and and it's so funny
[14:58] as you say that, I was thinking like
[15:00] DoorDash and like Hinge and Instagram.
[15:05] Like you can have your whole life is on
[15:07] your phone. I'm going to get my food on
[15:08] my phone. I'm going to date on my phone.
[15:10] I'm going to my social life.
[15:11] >> Mhm.
[15:12] >> I'm going to get my entertainment on my
[15:14] phone. I'm going to watch the YouTube.
[15:15] I'm going to watch Channel 5 news or
[15:17] Soul Boom right this.
[15:18] >> Yeah.
[15:18] >> Right?
[15:19] >> That's what they want. They want to
[15:20] engineer
[15:21] single use consumers is kind of a word
[15:23] for it. It was like back in the day why
[15:24] the FBI waged war on hitchhiking in the
[15:26] 70s. J. Edgar Hoover had this campaign
[15:28] called the danger on the side of the
[15:29] road. It was to kind of cast you know,
[15:32] hitchhikers as like you know, homosexual
[15:33] serial killers who was going to get in
[15:35] your car and steal your daughter.
[15:36] >> Yeah.
[15:36] >> Have sex with your dead body behind in
[15:38] the trash forest behind the gas station.
[15:40] >> Oh, wow. You going to
[15:41] >> no, that's what they were saying. It was
[15:42] like you know, that's what J. Edgar
[15:43] Hoover said in a press conference. And
[15:45] uh
[15:46] pretty much the goal was to stop
[15:48] carpooling. It was to increase domestic
[15:50] car sales and to get you know, something
[15:52] Ford could compete with Hyundai and
[15:53] foreign manufacturers.
[15:54] >> Right.
[15:54] >> So nowadays
[15:55] >> a lot more gas, too. I'm sure the
[15:57] petroleum industry was so happy about
[16:00] people not hitchhiking and carpooling.
[16:02] >> 100% and I and I think that like that's
[16:04] what they want nowadays but with
[16:05] everyone to sort of be a consumer who
[16:07] gets all of their essential needs
[16:08] procured through apps on their phone,
[16:11] who doesn't go outside, you know, and
[16:13] who lives terminally online.
[16:15] >> Yeah.
[16:15] >> And doesn't procreate.
[16:16] >> They've talked a lot in the last several
[16:18] years about the attention economy.
[16:20] >> Mhm.
[16:21] >> Of which I think we're both a part of
[16:23] and contributors to.
[16:24] >> We're drug dealers.
[16:25] >> Uh in a way, but I was at a conference
[16:28] recently and there was a speaker and I
[16:29] can't remember his name and he was
[16:31] talking about how really what we're in
[16:33] right now is the intimacy economy. And I
[16:36] thought that was really interesting
[16:37] because people are having relationships
[16:40] with their chat GPTs. I mean I mean a
[16:42] lot of people not That used to be a If
[16:44] you had said that
[16:46] 8 months ago, people would be like, oh,
[16:47] that's fringe weirdos.
[16:49] >> Yeah.
[16:50] >> Right?
[16:50] >> married to it. But in all seriousness, I
[16:53] met a a woman in in my town in Ventura
[16:55] County and she's like, I have a name for
[16:58] my chat GPT and I get up in the morning
[17:00] and I greet it and I ask it questions
[17:03] and I'll ask questions about topics I'm
[17:05] thinking about or about the news and
[17:07] I'll get this and it has a personality
[17:09] and it's it's the it's the movie Her
[17:12] >> God.
[17:12] >> come to life and and this person was
[17:14] talking about how that's that's a form
[17:16] of intimacy.
[17:17] >> Yeah.
[17:18] >> When you think about it like in and
[17:20] dating is intimacy and Instagram and
[17:23] what's going on and you know, whatever
[17:25] social media you're using is like
[17:28] fooling you into thinking that you're
[17:29] being intimate with your device.
[17:31] >> Yeah, I mean I think if we had that
[17:33] technology during COVID we'd be in like
[17:35] a nuclear holocaust. You know, like
[17:37] society would have actually like
[17:40] imploded
[17:41] imploded because you know, it it is sad
[17:43] to see. I just got an offer for a
[17:45] sponsorship for me to a Chinese AI
[17:47] company that actually designs you a
[17:48] girlfriend. You know, it's just for men
[17:50] and cuz you can't technically do that
[17:51] here. Like I asked chat GPT I was like,
[17:53] can we date? You know, it's like like do
[17:55] you actually like me? Do you love me?
[17:57] They're like, no, no, no, I don't. You
[17:58] should go find a human. But I mean once
[18:00] you if you don't have those firewalls in
[18:01] place, it will be like the movie Her
[18:03] times 10,000 cuz there's incels
[18:05] everywhere.
[18:05] >> I lived out in suburban Seattle, but we
[18:07] would take the bus in almost every
[18:10] weekend especially during the summers
[18:12] and we would just wander around downtown
[18:15] Seattle.
[18:15] >> It's fascinating.
[18:16] >> And but we were 12 and 13 and just and
[18:20] our parents would be like, "Oop, have
[18:22] fun. Where are you going?" Seattle
[18:23] Center. We're going to play some video
[18:24] games. But we'd be wandering up and down
[18:26] First Avenue and
[18:27] >> Yeah, for sure. From the market through
[18:29] Belltown. Yeah, get the Grammy over
[18:31] there.
[18:31] >> You get some gritty grimy areas you go
[18:33] to.
[18:33] >> thing about Seattle is like it's super
[18:35] grimy and has a lot of culture, but it's
[18:36] not actually dangerous. So for a
[18:38] 13-year-old delinquent or someone
[18:39] involved in like counterculture, it's
[18:41] perfect cuz you can like, you know, talk
[18:43] to bums and find weed and hang out under
[18:45] bridges without like actually you know,
[18:48] encountering like gang members and
[18:50] >> Yeah, or getting shot in the face or
[18:52] something like that.
[18:53] >> It's a playground for kids who want to
[18:54] get in trouble, but not too much
[18:55] trouble.
[18:56] >> And uh does Seattle claim you as one of
[18:58] their own? Cuz Seattle to me like I'm
[19:00] I'm pretty famous around the the United
[19:03] States, but in Seattle I'm like a god. I
[19:06] feel like there should be a big like
[19:08] sports figures get big murals. I feel
[19:10] like there should be a Rainn Wilson
[19:11] mural in Seattle.
[19:12] >> I definitely would uh support that.
[19:14] >> You would? And Howard, are you are you
[19:16] in the same ilk?
[19:17] >> Yeah, more more so as I'm getting older
[19:19] now. Like Seattle's a real hater city,
[19:20] especially if you grew up in the inner
[19:21] city, it's kind of like a crabs in the
[19:23] bucket mentality. The coolest thing you
[19:24] can do is kind of be like a local who,
[19:26] you know, never leaves and never
[19:27] accomplishes anything and like hates
[19:29] hates gentrifiers, like hates tech bros,
[19:32] works service forever and just like
[19:33] doesn't want to move, kind of like, you
[19:35] know, be a townie. And um I feel like
[19:37] whenever I try to put myself out there
[19:39] at first, people like made fun of me,
[19:40] you know? I was a rapper in high school,
[19:42] they made fun of me then. You know, when
[19:43] I started doing journalism, like no one
[19:45] from Seattle was like, "We believe in
[19:46] you." except for a couple close friends.
[19:47] But it wasn't like I had the community
[19:48] on my back like somebody from LA would.
[19:50] It's just a very supportive city.
[19:52] >> You were you were a white rapper in in
[19:54] in high school?
[19:55] >> I was a I mean, I'm white and I I
[19:56] rapped. I'm still a white rapper at
[19:58] heart.
[19:58] >> Okay.
[19:59] >> But what I'm saying is now that I'm like
[20:00] older, like people from Seattle are
[20:02] stoked on me.
[20:02] >> But at the time when you had that
[20:03] respect, yeah.
[20:04] >> When I was younger, it's like, "Oh, you
[20:05] see him on uh the movies? Do you know he
[20:07] actually like used to like, you know,
[20:08] rap like in Sag Aftra's pants?" You
[20:10] know, I don't know. There's just like
[20:11] random hater I would hear.
[20:13] >> Is that like what they call tall poppy
[20:14] syndrome? Like some the poppy that
[20:17] sticks out above the others gets kind of
[20:18] cut down. Seattle has that a little bit,
[20:20] you think?
[20:21] >> For inner city kids in the immediate
[20:22] years after high school, yeah. But now
[20:24] that it's like 10 years out, I go home
[20:25] and it's like the new generation just
[20:26] knows I'm from there and they're stoked.
[20:28] >> Yeah, got you.
[20:30] You're encouraging your fellow
[20:33] >> countryman.
[20:35] >> Gen What are you Gen
[20:36] You're Gen Z? No, you're millennial.
[20:38] You're still a millennial.
[20:39] >> Gen Z. I'm I was born in '97. So, I'm
[20:40] the oldest Gen Z there is.
[20:43] >> Yeah, the mustache shows shows
[20:46] >> Yes, I do have a kind of a millennial
[20:47] mustache going. I do seem to fit that
[20:49] Ace Hotel Stumptown coffee vibe going.
[20:51] But I am in fact I did grow up on Chief
[20:52] Keef and Lil B. I'm Gen Z.
[20:54] >> It's so Silver Lake.
[20:56] >> Yeah, oh man.
[20:57] >> your heart is in Glendale.
[20:57] >> My heart is in Glendale. My body is in
[21:00] uh the I almost said the name of my
[21:02] town.
[21:03] >> Don't do that.
[21:04] >> But you know what?
[21:05] We're friendly here and we'll edit out
[21:07] whatever the you to get edited out.
[21:09] >> no, it's okay. Yeah, the name
[21:10] >> No, but we will cuz that's how we are.
[21:11] >> I'll give people one more clue as to
[21:13] where I live. It's next to the most
[21:14] contaminated lake in North America.
[21:17] >> I know which one. Can I say it?
[21:19] >> Yeah.
[21:19] >> Salton Sea.
[21:20] >> Yeah.
[21:21] >> Now, there is a collective near the
[21:23] Salton Sea. Have you been there and
[21:25] filmed there? Uh
[21:26] Slab Town?
[21:27] >> Slab City.
[21:28] >> Slab City?
[21:28] >> Yes, yes.
[21:29] >> Slap Town?
[21:31] >> I
[21:31] >> Slap ass.
[21:32] >> Slab City.
[21:33] >> Have you Have you made a Can you make a
[21:35] rap about Slab City?
[21:36] >> Uh I don't have the freestyling ability
[21:38] that I once did, but Slab City's um
[21:41] >> Looking pretty.
[21:43] >> It's a nice place.
[21:44] >> To get a kitty in the in the in the city
[21:46] in Slab City.
[21:46] >> There's a lot of kitties running around.
[21:48] There's a lot of cats and dogs. I saw
[21:49] some lady walking a wooden dog on a
[21:51] leash screaming at the sky there once
[21:54] and that's something that stuck with me.
[21:55] >> Uh have you been to Slab City? Can you
[21:56] tell us about it?
[21:57] >> quite close.
[21:58] >> You live close to it.
[21:59] >> Yeah, let's just say that.
[22:00] >> Cuz it's a crazy collective, right?
[22:02] >> Slab City itself is There is a a
[22:05] collective within Slab City called East
[22:06] Jesus that is kind of like a
[22:08] Burning Man style art group, but Slab
[22:10] City itself has no ne- like you don't
[22:13] have to be a part of a community or
[22:14] collective to move to Slab City.
[22:16] >> Okay, you can just go find a piece of
[22:18] the slab
[22:19] with a with a tent or a camper van or RV
[22:22] or something like that. You have a car.
[22:24] >> your car, bring a tent, set up a
[22:25] generator if you have an RV and you're
[22:27] good to go, but there's no central
[22:28] power, internet, or you know, air
[22:30] conditioning obviously.
[22:30] >> So, you're encouraging your fellow Gen
[22:33] Z'ers to like a back to the land
[22:35] movement.
[22:36] >> Uh specifically to build community
[22:38] outside of the big cities. To to seek to
[22:41] go somewhere where you're not you don't
[22:43] have a gun to your head that is the
[22:44] landlord threatening to evict you. You
[22:46] can actually just uh not have to work a
[22:49] corporate job to facilitate your
[22:50] artistic dream and you can really pay
[22:52] 400 bucks a month and just like figure
[22:54] out how to sell stuff on eBay and pursue
[22:56] what your passion is. That dream is
[22:57] still possible if you don't enter the
[22:59] young professional space. If you don't
[23:01] pursue the coolest, most hip place in
[23:02] the country. If you build something cool
[23:04] outside of the mix, there's so many sick
[23:06] towns that like if you and your friends
[23:08] move to and just get more people to come
[23:10] slowly, they'll be sick as hell.
[23:11] >> some others?
[23:12] >> Well,
[23:14] there's so many.
[23:14] >> Besides Slab City.
[23:15] >> There's a lot of cool ones in Arizona.
[23:17] And like uh
[23:19] in Southeast Arizona, Sierra Vista is
[23:20] pretty cool. I like Nogales, Arizona on
[23:22] the border. I love border towns. I love
[23:24] El Paso.
[23:25] Um there's so many sick ones in the
[23:26] Mojave Desert. You got uh Amboy,
[23:29] Death Valley Junction,
[23:30] uh Yermo.
[23:32] >> Wow.
[23:32] >> Primm is cool. Good Springs in Nevada.
[23:34] Winnemucca, Nevada is great. Elko.
[23:37] Um
[23:38] >> You should be a geographer.
[23:39] >> Yeah, Tonopah, Nevada can be cool, too.
[23:41] Fallon.
[23:42] >> How do you know all this?
[23:43] >> I've been on the road a while. I've been
[23:44] on the road 10 years.
[23:45] >> Apparently. That's a good series to
[23:47] document uh some of these
[23:49] >> Yeah.
[23:49] >> alternative communities. But it's weird.
[23:52] You say alternative communities and it's
[23:53] like oh, that means no one's taking
[23:55] showers and
[23:56] >> think of patchouli oil and no shoes.
[23:58] >> Yeah. Uh but it doesn't have to be that
[24:00] way.
[24:00] >> No, we just live like a normal life. You
[24:02] know, do all the normal stuff. Go to the
[24:04] grocery store.
[24:05] >> I have a job and have a job.
[24:07] >> But at least have the job be somewhat
[24:09] connected to your passion.
[24:11] >> What about food and growing food?
[24:13] >> I don't know how, but I would.
[24:15] >> You would do that if you could?
[24:16] >> Yeah.
[24:17] >> You can't out by the Salton Sea. There's
[24:19] two the the soil's too alkaline.
[24:21] >> I think that if you create some sort of
[24:22] hydroponic setup hydroponic setup, you
[24:25] can grow cucumbers and stuff like in
[24:27] your own garage. I don't really know
[24:28] though. Like I I think food takes too
[24:31] long.
[24:34] I actually grew up in the inner city, so
[24:35] like I had a tomato plant once and that
[24:37] took way too long.
[24:38] >> It takes such a long time.
[24:39] >> you get is like one tomato or a couple
[24:40] of them.
[24:40] >> you can spend and then a squirrel comes
[24:42] along and then eats it and you're like,
[24:44] "That's 8 months down the drain!
[24:46] >> Yeah.
[24:46] >> What the hell?"
[24:47] >> I'd rather just not know where my food
[24:48] comes from and just pay extra for the
[24:50] good stuff. Cage-free eggs.
[24:52] >> We have a a a little bit of land and we
[24:56] have some macadamia nut trees.
[24:57] >> No way.
[24:58] >> And we have some avocado trees. Now, I'm
[25:01] no I'm no farmer, although we do have
[25:03] some pigs.
[25:03] >> Mhm.
[25:04] >> Um which we will not eat. We will
[25:06] cherish. Uh but we have the squirrel
[25:09] infestation
[25:10] >> Mhm.
[25:10] >> from hell. We hired someone to get the
[25:14] squirrels
[25:15] >> Yeah.
[25:15] >> and and the groundhogs. And they've
[25:17] gotten 60 squirrels so far, and they
[25:19] think there's probably another 60 in our
[25:21] land.
[25:22] >> Damn. So, you have more squirrels than
[25:23] the average homeowner.
[25:25] >> Yeah.
[25:26] >> Like two or three times more?
[25:27] >> I I would say 10 to 20 times more.
[25:30] >> So, you got like armed landscapers out
[25:32] there just picking them off with a
[25:34] pellet
[25:34] >> Yeah, and uh my uh the guy bought me a
[25:37] pellet gun.
[25:39] My My handyman Scott, who's been charged
[25:42] with
[25:42] >> Yeah.
[25:43] >> eradicating this population cuz they ate
[25:44] all our avocados.
[25:46] >> Oh, that's actually terrible, man. I'm
[25:47] sorry to hear that.
[25:47] >> And this is what people don't understand
[25:49] and the vegans don't understand. They
[25:50] love their avocado toast, but do you
[25:52] know how many of varmints are killed to
[25:55] bring you one gorgeous avocado?
[25:57] >> Wow, have you laid that hypothetical, or
[25:59] I guess real scenario, down on a vegan
[26:01] before?
[26:01] >> I We're doing it right here and now.
[26:03] We'll see what happens.
[26:04] >> That's a scary group to have after you.
[26:06] >> Yeah.
[26:07] >> Making enemies in the vegan {slash} like
[26:09] PETA space is almost worse than
[26:10] Scientologists. This episode is brought
[26:12] to you by Fetzer. You know, there's this
[26:14] tendency in modern life to believe that
[26:15] every problem has a material solution.
[26:17] More technology, more productivity, more
[26:19] money, more apps reminding you to
[26:21] breathe while you ignore the fact that
[26:23] your soul feels like a raisin. But the
[26:25] folks at the Fetzer Institute believe
[26:27] something deeper. They believe that
[26:29] behind humanity's biggest challenges are
[26:31] spiritual ones. Loneliness, division,
[26:34] disconnection, our inability to see each
[26:36] other, the planet, or even ourselves as
[26:38] sacred. And they're asking a really
[26:40] beautiful question. What if shared
[26:42] flourishing begins with the sacred?
[26:44] Fetzer supports stories, communities,
[26:46] and spiritual solutions from people
[26:48] around the world who are healing
[26:50] division, caring for the Earth, and
[26:51] creating deeper human connection through
[26:54] faith, spirituality, and reverence for
[26:56] love itself. Not dogma, not forcing one
[26:59] belief system, just the radical idea
[27:01] that, "Hey, maybe the soul matters."
[27:04] Honestly, that's a conversation we care
[27:05] deeply about here at SoulBoom. You can
[27:08] explore their spiritual solutions
[27:09] library and learn more at fetzer.org.
[27:13] That's f e t z e r.org. Thanks, Fetzer.
[27:17] >> What kind of hope do you see and what
[27:19] are your, you know, hopes and dreams and
[27:22] encouragement for Gen Z folks moving
[27:25] forward?
[27:26] >> Well, I think there's so much
[27:27] creativity.
[27:29] I think that within 10 years all of the
[27:32] corporate systems that control news
[27:35] media and the distribution of music and
[27:38] movies will be virtually obsolete
[27:41] because there's so much energy with the
[27:43] youth right now and so many
[27:44] outside-the-box ideas and young talent
[27:47] that there's no way that the gatekeepers
[27:49] that are
[27:50] have been just making money off of, you
[27:52] know, creatives and and holding them
[27:54] back for so long will be able to survive
[27:56] this renaissance.
[27:57] >> Mhm.
[27:58] >> You know, and so
[28:00] as far as the state of America and the
[28:02] future of our democracy, not too much
[28:04] hope there.
[28:05] But as far as Gen Z and the people
[28:07] taking back more creative power,
[28:10] I think we're on the way.
[28:12] >> Well, going back to what you're talking
[28:13] about about, you know, creating
[28:15] communities outside of big cities, which
[28:16] I think is is brilliant.
[28:19] I think that from that
[28:21] can be, you know, what if there's five
[28:23] communities in Idaho or Arizona or Iowa
[28:27] or something like that, and they're all
[28:28] getting together and kind of making
[28:30] decisions about governing and kind of
[28:33] working somewhat within the system,
[28:35] somewhat without the system. Obviously,
[28:36] there's going to be a balance there.
[28:38] >> Mhm.
[28:38] >> Cuz as we will rely less and less on a
[28:41] central government to be able to be at
[28:44] all rational
[28:46] >> Mhm.
[28:46] >> or really
[28:47] supportive of its population. No one's
[28:49] in Washington D.C. to be public
[28:51] servants, let's face it.
[28:52] >> that's for sure.
[28:54] >> uh the public servants have to rise up
[28:56] from the grassroots.
[28:57] >> Yeah.
[28:57] >> And perhaps greater and greater
[29:00] community could spread virally from some
[29:03] kind of, you know,
[29:06] collective.
[29:07] >> That sounds awesome. It's almost like a
[29:08] a decentralized network of strong
[29:10] communities.
[29:11] >> Yeah.
[29:11] >> I think that would be great, where
[29:12] everyone gets those base level communal
[29:13] fulfillments in their
[29:15] >> not
[29:15] >> Yeah.
[29:15] >> with guns to take on the government or
[29:17] something like that, but
[29:19] because that's often what people think
[29:21] too.
[29:22] >> Yeah.
[29:23] >> But to no longer be reliant on either
[29:26] the government. I think people people
[29:28] still these days look to Washington D.C.
[29:30] to solve their answers. And there I I
[29:33] see it and this is what I wrote about in
[29:34] Soul Boom as this is just this constant
[29:36] revolving door of like
[29:39] people are so into their partisan
[29:41] politics not realizing the system is
[29:43] cancerous to its core.
[29:45] >> Absolutely.
[29:45] >> They're just like, I'm going all in on
[29:46] this candidate. Oh, they didn't work
[29:48] out. I'm going all in on this candidate.
[29:50] And I think that's what the system wants
[29:51] every two years, every four years to be
[29:55] working for these candidates, to be
[29:56] raising money, millions and millions of
[29:58] dollars are not going to education or
[30:02] health care or agriculture.
[30:03] >> Yeah.
[30:04] >> They're going to candidates, you know,
[30:06] and campaigns and uh I hope that people
[30:10] at some point will just give up on that
[30:13] whole system and start creating a new
[30:14] system.
[30:15] >> Definitely. I think that starting at a
[30:16] local level is pretty good. Like if you
[30:18] vote locally in your town, like you have
[30:20] a say over the bike lane being
[30:22] installed.
[30:22] >> Mhm.
[30:23] >> You have a say over a cool riverfront
[30:25] bike trail being I don't know why I'm
[30:26] using only cycling examples, but you
[30:27] know, you can control the speed limit.
[30:30] You can put a speed bump somewhere if
[30:31] you feel like it's a freaking racetrack.
[30:33] So, like you can make these calls on a
[30:35] small level. It's just people are so
[30:36] zoomed out, you know what I mean? With
[30:38] this like, you know, Vance versus Biden.
[30:42] I don't know, you know, just all these
[30:43] major two-party electoral issues that
[30:45] they forget that you can actually make
[30:47] change in your community. And the
[30:48] smaller the better. Yeah, but yeah, you
[30:50] got to be careful cuz when you say, "I'm
[30:51] having a small decentralized commune in
[30:54] Idaho."
[30:55] >> It's got a Bundy Ranch vibe to it.
[30:56] >> Very much so.
[30:57] >> And there's a couple up there already.
[30:58] >> as I said Idaho, I was like, I shouldn't
[31:00] have said Idaho. That's why I threw Iowa
[31:01] out there. I was like, you know,
[31:03] >> I love Iowa.
[31:04] >> Yeah. I love Iowa.
[31:05] >> It's so great, man.
[31:06] >> It's beautiful.
[31:07] >> Yeah.
[31:07] >> My wife and I,
[31:09] uh, she went to college there in Iowa,
[31:11] University of Iowa for a while, in the
[31:13] writers program. And we were trying to
[31:15] come up with the euphemisms for Iowa.
[31:18] One was why-owa.
[31:20] >> That's good.
[31:21] >> And another one was I-owa, idiots out
[31:23] walking around.
[31:25] >> I mean, it's flat, so
[31:27] you can just keep keep keep on trucking.
[31:29] >> We love you, Iowa.
[31:30] >> What's your favorite city in Iowa? Or
[31:31] town, sorry.
[31:33] >> I I got to go with Iowa City.
[31:34] >> Yeah, you ever been to Algona or Britt
[31:36] or any of those corn towns up top?
[31:37] >> I've never been to the corn towns up
[31:39] top.
[31:39] >> Yeah, they're good.
[31:40] >> Yeah.
[31:40] >> Britt has an annual hobo event, like a
[31:42] hobo gathering, like stick and bindle,
[31:45] vagabond. And then Algona is the town
[31:46] next to it.
[31:48] >> Wait, do do hobos come from all over or
[31:50] do people dress like hobos, like the old
[31:52] Halloween costume?
[31:53] >> Uh, in town, people dress like hobos.
[31:55] But behind town, if you follow the trash
[31:57] fire, you'll find some real hobos.
[31:59] >> Actual hobos come?
[32:00] >> Yeah.
[32:00] >> For the hobo festival?
[32:01] >> Absolutely.
[32:02] >> the idea of a hobo festival that is half
[32:04] hobos
[32:05] >> Yes.
[32:05] >> and half people pretending to be hobos.
[32:07] >> They've actually separated now. They
[32:09] have the hobo gathering and then hobo
[32:11] days. Hobo days is for the posers with
[32:13] the stick and bindle outfits dressed
[32:15] like
[32:15] >> And the hobo gathering is
[32:17] >> Yeah.
[32:17] >> people who actually travel for work and
[32:19] live next to the train tracks.
[32:20] >> Nice.
[32:21] >> Yeah.
[32:21] >> Yeah. And to me, as someone who works a
[32:24] lot in climate change, like
[32:25] climate stuff is something that we have
[32:27] to really be concerned about. And it's
[32:30] And it's it's always posited as, "Oh,
[32:32] these extremists going crazy in their
[32:35] climate stuff." Meanwhile, like El Niño
[32:38] this year is supposed to be the worst
[32:40] it's ever ever been. We're already at
[32:42] the 1.5 degree Celsius threshold heading
[32:45] quickly to two two degrees and it's it's
[32:48] actually worse than the scientists
[32:51] predicted. It's worse than the
[32:53] doomsayers have predicted and we're in
[32:56] this kind of blind denial about it and
[33:00] all this culture it's all about like
[33:02] immigrants taking jobs.
[33:04] >> Yeah, they're taking our jobs.
[33:06] >> And not about stuff that really is going
[33:08] to threaten our jobs.
[33:09] >> Totally.
[33:10] >> Which is drought and flood and fire and
[33:14] extreme heat.
[33:16] >> And you know, some of the communities
[33:17] that are most affected by these climate
[33:18] change issues already are being targeted
[33:20] with data center developments. Like if
[33:22] you look at the Imperial Valley in
[33:23] California, that area between El Centro
[33:26] and Calexico on the border, it's the
[33:28] poorest county, the most unemployed
[33:30] county in the state of California and
[33:32] they have
[33:34] the most consistent droughts. They have
[33:36] the highest temperature, they have the
[33:38] they're constantly running out of water
[33:40] cuz they have to pull it from the Sea of
[33:42] Cortez or the Colorado River. Colorado
[33:44] River's experiencing a drought. They
[33:45] don't have the technology to desalinate
[33:47] the water from the Sea of Cortez and so
[33:49] these people are already having to pay a
[33:50] premium for water in the midst of a
[33:52] worsening drought.
[33:54] And Meta or Google, they won't say who
[33:56] is putting the largest data center in
[33:58] the state right there in the middle of
[34:00] El Centro with little to no pushback
[34:02] because they can dangle the job growth
[34:04] thing in front of these poor people and
[34:06] say, "Hey, how would you like, you know,
[34:07] 4,000 jobs?" And these people don't have
[34:09] jobs. So, the idea of economic growth
[34:12] manufactures consent for the data
[34:14] centers that poison the descendants of
[34:16] those who vote to put them in there. So,
[34:18] it's horrible and it's happening
[34:19] everywhere in Louisiana, every single
[34:21] place.
[34:22] >> Yeah.
[34:22] >> Native reservations.
[34:24] >> yeah.
[34:24] >> The I don't know if you just saw the
[34:27] 1,000 trillion dollar I don't even know
[34:29] if if the word gazillion data center
[34:32] like lease investment that just got
[34:34] announced that they're actually putting
[34:35] in like the largest investment that's
[34:37] not I don't I don't know what is a
[34:38] thousand trillions?
[34:40] >> What yeah, how do you how do you is that
[34:42] a Googleplex? I don't know. Yeah, what's
[34:44] the next number?
[34:45] >> how much they're spending to develop
[34:46] this data center infrastructure just to
[34:48] build LLMs to um
[34:50] ruin everything, ruin art, ruin life.
[34:52] >> Wow, I was doing some research on
[34:56] climate for an essay that I was writing
[34:58] and I was wondering about the the fires
[35:01] and of course a big chunk of my house
[35:02] burned down as people know and then last
[35:04] summer we had to evacuate my cabin up in
[35:06] Oregon because of forest fires and this
[35:09] summer we had to evacuate again because
[35:11] of forest fires.
[35:12] And what I found out is that the driest
[35:15] 20 years over the last 1200 years on the
[35:19] West Coast, the driest 20 years have
[35:22] been the last 20 years. Really?
[35:24] >> Really? So
[35:25] this isn't extremism to be talking about
[35:28] this and now we have fire season but we
[35:30] just acclimate like a frog in boiling
[35:32] water we just acclimate
[35:34] very slowly to this kind of destruction.
[35:37] >> What gives you the most thrill and the
[35:39] most joy about the work that you do in
[35:41] terms of your audience?
[35:43] >> Well, it's one of my favorite quotes is
[35:45] a Hunter S. Thompson quote from I forget
[35:46] what book it's from it's like from one
[35:47] of his interviews and it was like anyone
[35:50] who says they love what they do is
[35:51] lying. They like if you truly love it,
[35:54] it's painful. Like
[35:56] he said it the best I I think the quote
[35:57] was like the most fun thing is the
[36:00] inception of the initial idea and the
[36:02] publication of the product. Everything
[36:04] between is pure pain and that's how I
[36:06] feel. When I think of a video I'm like
[36:08] oh my god you're in love with the idea
[36:09] and it's just like nails on a chalkboard
[36:11] like trying to make it happen like
[36:12] trying to turn this thing
[36:13] >> Yeah.
[36:14] >> brain into something material like a
[36:15] deliverable and then once you put out
[36:17] into the world it's like boom.
[36:18] Everything between then
[36:20] nightmare. Editing nightmare. File
[36:22] storage nightmare. I kind of like
[36:24] interviewing.
[36:26] You you what I mean? Like that's the one
[36:27] part
[36:28] I kind of like.
[36:29] >> I'm so glad we're talking about this
[36:30] because I think a lot of people have
[36:32] misconceptions about that. Like it's
[36:34] like love what you do, do what you love,
[36:36] love what you do. And it's like
[36:38] I'm writing my next book. Like I wrote
[36:40] this book Soul Boom. I'm sorry to keep
[36:42] talking about it, but it's the
[36:44] Soul Boom podcast. So, um when I was
[36:47] finishing it and doing rewrites, I was
[36:48] like I am never
[36:50] doing this again. And I wasn't joking. I
[36:53] wasn't like hypothetically saying that.
[36:55] I was like this is awful. I'm never
[36:58] going through this again.
[36:59] And here I am a few years later writing
[37:01] my next book. But, I've been writing
[37:03] this chapter on consciousness and
[37:07] I'm loving it. And I'm love I'm loving
[37:09] the inception. And yes, it's hard to
[37:11] write, but I can't wait for people to
[37:13] read it cuz I feel like oh, people are
[37:14] going to read this. It's going to blow
[37:16] their minds literally. And I love the
[37:18] way I've structured it and all of the
[37:20] way that it's arcing. And I'm I've I
[37:22] haven't been so jazzed about work that
[37:25] I'm doing in years.
[37:26] >> Yeah, and it's probably cuz you can see
[37:28] the forest through the trees now. You're
[37:30] like oh my god, like it's almost there.
[37:32] We almost have the end product.
[37:33] >> Yeah. And I think that's past I always
[37:35] call it like the 70% mark. When you get
[37:37] past 70% completion, you're like okay,
[37:39] we're almost there. It's going to be
[37:40] fun.
[37:40] >> Yeah, right. Right.
[37:41] >> Between 40 and 70 is the worst. For
[37:44] editing like the that over the hump
[37:45] through the middle it's like Wednesday,
[37:47] the hump day of the week. Like when
[37:48] editing a video or probably writing a
[37:50] book, too. Even writing the intro's fun.
[37:51] First chapter's fun, second chapter's
[37:53] fun, third chapter's fun. You get to the
[37:54] the the nucleus, the core of the
[37:56] and you're like man, anything but this.
[37:58] >> that way about theater. I love the table
[38:00] reads and like kind of getting up on
[38:02] your feet and like playing around with
[38:03] the character. And then there's two or
[38:05] three weeks where it's just hell. It's
[38:07] awful. It's so hard. You're memorizing
[38:10] lines, learning blocking, working with
[38:11] people, trying to figure out what they
[38:14] are going to need and how you're all
[38:15] going to get along. And then performing
[38:18] is a blast. But, there there's there's
[38:21] three weeks of hell thrown into every
[38:23] theater production, which is how I spent
[38:25] the first 15 years of my career.
[38:27] >> That's interesting. So, do you prefer
[38:29] that to being in sitcoms?
[38:31] >> Uh no,
[38:33] >> You don't. You like cameras, sitcoms.
[38:35] >> Cameras are fun and paychecks are are
[38:38] really fun and the hours are easier.
[38:40] It's a lot easier. I do like the
[38:43] challenge of
[38:45] theater, where it is character and
[38:47] language and sweat and it's all
[38:49] immediate and there's an audience right
[38:51] there and uh it's uh
[38:55] it's a high-wire act and it's super
[38:58] super hard, but I feel like at least
[39:00] once a year I need to go back into those
[39:02] waters.
[39:03] >> Yeah, it's kind of like me and
[39:04] hitchhiking.
[39:05] >> Yeah, you
[39:05] >> I feel like if I don't do it at least
[39:06] once a year, I like lose something.
[39:08] >> So, do you do that?
[39:09] >> Yeah, I have to. It's almost like a
[39:11] requirement, you know?
[39:12] Like maybe if I have to get from Phoenix
[39:13] to Flagstaff, instead of renting a car,
[39:15] I'll just be like, "Nah, let me just get
[39:17] a ride."
[39:17] >> Where do you hitchhike? Like on the
[39:19] freeway entrance ramps? Do you Do you
[39:20] have like cardboard sign or And do you
[39:23] Do you try and be very recognizable or
[39:25] do you put on like like a a big hat or
[39:28] or something like that or
[39:30] you know?
[39:30] >> You do it on the shoulder. You do it on
[39:31] the shoulder.
[39:35] >> Like I don't know.
[39:39] >> Okay.
[39:39] >> Well, are you trying to be like, "Hey,
[39:40] I'M ANDREW CALLAHAN"?
[39:44] >> THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE WAY TO NEVER GET
[39:46] PICKED UP. With a Jason mask.
[39:49] That's what the FBI was trying to make
[39:51] hitchhikers like, you know,
[39:53] kind of look like back in the '70s.
[39:55] >> rides?
[39:56] >> Uh you go to the shoulder of an
[39:58] interstate on-ramp. Ideally, with a long
[40:00] shoulder, you know?
[40:01] >> Where there's room for them to
[40:03] >> And you stand maybe with some grass on
[40:05] the side, so you can have somewhere to
[40:07] chill for a bit if you need to recharge
[40:08] or come up with new presentation
[40:10] techniques.
[40:11] >> Do you have an umbrella, a sign?
[40:12] >> No sign.
[40:13] >> Do you hold a $5 bill like, "I'm going
[40:14] to pay for gas"?
[40:15] >> No, you just want to look really
[40:16] clean-cut.
[40:17] >> Yeah.
[40:18] >> You don't want to look like you're
[40:19] >> You're in Slab City.
[40:20] >> Yeah.
[40:21] You want to uh
[40:23] >> Like you don't have a German Shepherd
[40:24] and a machete.
[40:25] >> No, you just wear a collared shirt,
[40:26] smile at people, you know what I mean?
[40:28] And then or sometimes if I'm feeling
[40:30] like really I want to cheat the system,
[40:32] I'll go like this, like there's
[40:33] something bad going on. And then they'll
[40:35] say like what's going on? Are you okay?
[40:38] And I'll be like, I just got to you know
[40:39] get up up the road. And they'll be like,
[40:40] ah whatever, come on.
[40:42] >> Right. Right.
[40:43] >> But yeah, hitchhiking can be scary
[40:44] sometimes.
[40:45] >> see this?
[40:46] >> Yeah.
[40:47] >> You do this.
[40:48] >> Yeah, thumbs up.
[40:49] >> You don't do it like the direction I'm
[40:50] going like you don't like
[40:51] >> No, no, cuz it's pretty obvious where
[40:53] you're going cuz the on-ramp only will
[40:54] go one direction.
[40:55] >> So you just do this. But it's not thumbs
[40:57] up, it's it's thumbs out.
[41:00] Okay.
[41:00] >> If you go like this, people will
[41:01] sometimes people will go like this to
[41:02] you back. Yeah, they'll think you're
[41:04] just on the road giving them
[41:05] encouragement.
[41:05] >> Well, you see this is important. See, I
[41:07] I've never hitchhiked before. So I would
[41:10] have done this and people would have
[41:11] been flashing me right back. Or I'd be
[41:13] like this and they're like, what a tool.
[41:16] Like I'm going this way. Anyone going
[41:18] this way?
[41:20] >> Yeah, I also pick up hitchhikers all the
[41:22] time.
[41:23] >> You do?
[41:23] >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to. It's like
[41:25] my penance.
[41:26] >> And did anything weird ever happen with
[41:29] you picking up a hitchhiker?
[41:30] >> No.
[41:31] Definitely not.
[41:32] >> Did anything ever happen with you being
[41:34] a hitchhiker, anything weird? Kind of
[41:36] >> It's always a little bit weird.
[41:37] >> Yeah.
[41:38] >> Yeah, I mean typically it's the scariest
[41:40] when they don't say much.
[41:42] That's when you really got to that's the
[41:44] red flag. It's typically someone like,
[41:46] oh my god, you're hitchhiking, that's so
[41:47] cool. I've never done that before. That
[41:48] sounds so fun. Where are you coming
[41:49] from?
[41:51] >> When someone just picks you up and
[41:52] they're like, all right, come on.
[41:53] >> Right.
[41:54] >> That's a scary that is a scary thing.
[41:56] You don't want to deal with that. But
[41:57] yeah, there's plenty of I mean every
[41:59] time something weird happens.
[42:01] Or when someone yeah.
[42:02] One time I was in I was hitchhiking and
[42:04] like I didn't realize like a bunch of
[42:05] red ants had got into my backpack while
[42:07] I was sitting on the side of the road.
[42:08] So I got in there and like they kind of
[42:09] all started like breaking out they were
[42:11] breaking containment like the World War
[42:12] Z human volcano out of my backpack. And
[42:15] >> Like Brad Pitt.
[42:16] >> And I was like but the guy like was like
[42:18] a real tough redneck and I was just
[42:20] worried that like if he saw them he
[42:21] would get mad at me. So I was like I I I
[42:23] just drop me off cuz I was so nervous
[42:24] about him seeing the ants.
[42:26] >> Did the ants get in the car?
[42:27] >> They were all over his car. I mean I'm
[42:28] sure that as soon as I left he was like
[42:30] what the hell? I mean there was a lot of
[42:31] ants. It was like I had an anthill
[42:32] living inside of my backpack.
[42:34] >> Favorite guest you've ever interviewed?
[42:37] >> Man.
[42:38] >> Who's the guy with the five on his cheek
[42:40] and the metal teeth?
[42:41] >> Cromag.
[42:42] >> Yeah. He's so great. I love that guy,
[42:44] man.
[42:45] >> My favorite interview I ever did was
[42:46] with a harm reduction worker named
[42:49] Antonio at the end of a Channel 5
[42:52] episode called harm reduction facility.
[42:54] It was about addiction and survival.
[42:57] >> This sounds terrible but what is harm
[42:59] reduction? What do you mean when you say
[43:00] that? I don't know what that means.
[43:02] >> who provide essential services
[43:04] to mostly drug users in places like SF.
[43:07] So
[43:08] >> Yeah.
[43:08] >> Narcan
[43:09] places to sleep food
[43:11] >> Okay.
[43:12] >> recovery services
[43:13] >> Got it. Okay.
[43:14] >> People who work you know hands-on with
[43:15] that population.
[43:16] >> Right.
[43:17] >> Um that was the most impactful but
[43:19] that's like a lesser known one.
[43:21] Yeah, Cromag's up there with like
[43:21] favorite interview guest. He's great.
[43:23] Always a good time.
[43:26] Um yeah, I'm going to I'll give it to
[43:27] I'll give it to C Mag.
[43:29] Although I wish he would stop gang
[43:30] banging so hard.
[43:31] >> He's still He's still at it?
[43:32] >> Yeah, he's in his mid-30s.
[43:34] >> Yeah.
[43:34] >> Not saying that that's bad. If you're
[43:36] watching this Cromag, don't beat me up.
[43:38] Uh
[43:39] >> What else gives you hope right now?
[43:41] We've talked about
[43:42] >> Dogs.
[43:43] >> Okay.
[43:44] >> They know what's going on.
[43:45] >> Yeah.
[43:46] >> Maybe that's a basic answer but you know
[43:48] >> We have this dog this new dog Vigo who's
[43:50] a rescue
[43:51] and he's just so happy all the time. If
[43:54] you come in he's like "Hey!"
[43:56] >> Mhm.
[43:56] >> "Oh my god, you're here!" "I love this
[43:59] guy." And it's just every morning it's
[44:01] just like "Hey!"
[44:02] >> Yeah.
[44:03] >> It's indefatigable positivity.
[44:07] Andrew Callaghan my brother from another
[44:09] mother, my Seattle
[44:11] >> Seattle
[44:11] >> Seattle
[44:13] >> Sonics
[44:14] >> Sonics forever. That's what Seattle guys
[44:16] say when they say goodbye, they go
[44:17] Sonics.
[44:20] >> You're trying to make that happen?
[44:24] >> Soul Boom is also on Spotify video. If
[44:26] you've got Spotify Premium, you can
[44:27] enjoy it free of Spotify ads. If you
[44:30] don't, you'll get even less ads if you
[44:31] hit subscribe to Soul Boom. Also, enjoy
[44:33] on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Pandora, or
[44:36] wherever else you get your stupid
[44:37] podcasts.