Transcript
[0:00] you are given a baseball bat that's
[0:02] plastic and I don't know pillows or or
[0:05] mannequins or something and you just
[0:07] beat the [ __ ] out of these things
[0:09] because that's what we think anger work
[0:11] is or screaming that all might be true
[0:14] but one of the things that you learn in
[0:17] smart body smart mind is that just the
[0:19] motion of moving the hit or the punch or
[0:23] the kick or the scratch or the scream
[0:25] those are all very important we would
[0:27] call stored procedural memories to move
[0:30] out, but just the motion of doing them
[0:33] isn't enough.
[0:36] Hey folks, Irene here. So, as you can
[0:38] see, there is a conversation for you
[0:40] today. This is with my good friend
[0:42] Donnie Hill. He is also a smart body,
[0:45] smart mind member, but this one is a
[0:47] little different because this is a
[0:48] conversation we have for his channel and
[0:50] his people in his coaching and
[0:53] self-development world. We get into the
[0:55] topic of anger, healthy aggression,
[0:58] rage, annihilation, the difference
[1:00] between these things and violence. We
[1:03] talk about culture and also a bit of his
[1:05] journey. One of the things that starts
[1:07] to happen when we build capacity and we
[1:09] work at the nervous system level is
[1:11] these little things start to trickle up
[1:13] and out. And they're not always due to
[1:15] overt abuse.
[1:17] It's just our world and how we live and
[1:20] how we suppress things. So, we get into
[1:23] all those topics and a bit more. And as
[1:26] a reminder, I have a lot of other
[1:28] resources on these topics. I'll post
[1:30] some of my favorite ones below this
[1:32] video in the show more section. And as
[1:34] always, if you want to start learning
[1:36] with me, as Donnie did many years ago,
[1:39] smart body, smart mind is the way to
[1:41] begin. All those links are near here.
[1:43] You can start at any time now. We've
[1:46] changed the way I do my online programs.
[1:49] So you can begin today with foundations.
[1:52] So check that out and enjoy my
[1:55] conversation with Donnie. And definitely
[1:57] give this video a like and a comment if
[1:58] you have questions. We try to get to as
[2:01] many as we can. We would love that.
[2:03] Thanks everyone.
[2:04] >> One of the things we've been talking
[2:05] about
[2:06] >> uh over the past couple of months is
[2:10] that the anger is coming back online.
[2:12] you know, we met in 2013, but you've
[2:16] been really mentoring me since 2020,
[2:18] 2021. I went through Smart Body, Smart
[2:21] Mind. I went through the science
[2:24] intuitive educator
[2:26] course and that beta
[2:28] >> certification
[2:29] >> and I've I've been interested in the
[2:32] practitioner training. Obviously, that
[2:34] comes when it comes. But what I've
[2:38] noticed as I've just continued to
[2:42] learn more about the nervous system and
[2:43] integrate my own work within the nervous
[2:46] system is that now all of this anger and
[2:49] resentment and frustration and grief are
[2:52] just starting to bubble up to the
[2:54] surface.
[2:55] >> Yeah. So,
[2:58] I guess a couple of weeks ago I asked
[2:59] you, so is this a normal thing?
[3:03] [laughter]
[3:05] What what does all of this mean when our
[3:08] fight actually becomes or comes back
[3:11] online? And that's really what this
[3:13] conversation is going to be about today.
[3:15] [clears throat]
[3:16] >> I think that was a couple months ago.
[3:18] >> It could have been. [laughter] I feel
[3:20] like so much has happened between our
[3:21] exchanges.
[3:24] >> Yeah. I mean, um, where do we start? The
[3:27] the the
[3:29] anger piece isn't isn't all what some
[3:33] folks think it is. It's not just about
[3:35] getting mad.
[3:37] I mean, it it can be that, but it's
[3:39] [snorts] also a very deep protective
[3:43] response
[3:45] from when we were really young,
[3:48] even infants.
[3:50] and how to unpack that. You know, we can
[3:52] go down some some lanes and rabbit
[3:55] holes, but
[3:57] I'll say this. It it I just was talking
[3:59] about this today actually in a in a
[4:01] training in a demo session. And
[4:06] without giving away the context or any
[4:08] personal details, it was an archetypal
[4:11] archetypical theme where someone had a
[4:14] really significant trauma
[4:17] and then after lots of sickness, we
[4:21] would call it complex PTSD.
[4:24] >> You've heard the analogy from my
[4:25] teachings, balls in the swimming pool.
[4:28] >> Yep. too much stuff crammed into our our
[4:31] system and the capacity is small and we
[4:33] need to grow the capacity but we also
[4:35] have to take the actual balls the actual
[4:38] stressors the events out. And so this
[4:42] individual had had a really significant
[4:44] event
[4:46] a year later struggling with health and
[4:48] sleep and and thoughts and
[4:52] you know just so many it's like
[4:54] textbook.
[4:56] Uh and what was very clear was how they
[5:00] were not able or didn't understand the
[5:03] importance of anger
[5:05] to the accident that had occurred
[5:07] because it was an accident where they
[5:08] were not at fault. Um,
[5:11] >> and then things happened afterwards in
[5:13] the medical situation where it was
[5:15] really like I don't want to say
[5:16] negligent, but you it was sort of
[5:18] dehumanizing.
[5:20] um
[5:23] >> hey pup they weren't in you know their
[5:26] country of origin so they couldn't speak
[5:28] the language and and there was I could
[5:30] see there was a lot of anger but you
[5:33] can't say to that person in that moment
[5:35] I need you to growl or I need you to
[5:37] punch the air or scream or get a
[5:41] baseball bat because it was so not
[5:44] connected to their lived experience that
[5:46] it would be okay
[5:49] to move that energy out and then you
[5:52] start to see the culture the
[5:55] conditioning
[5:58] what's right I don't want to be a mean
[6:00] person you know I don't want to you know
[6:02] I have to live and accept what happened
[6:04] to me I'm not I don't so there's this
[6:06] element of playing no victim versus
[6:10] playing too much victim if that makes
[6:12] sense
[6:13] >> what you were just mentioning ended up
[6:17] helping me connect some of the pieces
[6:19] Okay.
[6:20] >> So, for um some people listening, they
[6:23] know that I've been going through
[6:25] another sensory caregiving journey with
[6:27] my mom and my dad and my sister.
[6:30] Um and so they're my mom and my dad and
[6:34] my sister, they're all having their
[6:35] experience and I'm also having my
[6:37] experience. And what I'm finding in this
[6:42] uh this goound of caregiving is that
[6:46] more more of my childhood stuff is
[6:49] coming up, right? I think part of it is
[6:52] looking at, hey, is my mom going to be
[6:54] here? Is she not going to be here?
[6:57] How do I how do I mend or clean up that
[7:00] relationship?
[7:01] And then some of it is just uh I have a
[7:05] bigger swimming pool, right? because I
[7:07] built capacity over the past six or
[7:09] seven years. So now more of those
[7:12] >> beach balls or swimming pool balls are
[7:15] coming up to the surface and some of
[7:17] them are connected to my relationship
[7:19] with her, some of them are connected to
[7:22] my relationship with my family in
[7:23] general, some of them are just connected
[7:25] to childhood things.
[7:28] And
[7:31] what I resonated with in what you were
[7:34] talking about was
[7:37] having that mentality of no victim and
[7:41] then also victim um holding having the
[7:45] the mentality of like I can't be angry.
[7:48] Um anger is not okay. uh especially
[7:51] can't be angry at my parents or angry at
[7:54] you know my circumstance or angry at my
[7:57] classmates or bullies or whatever.
[8:00] >> And now I'm like wait a minute no I'm
[8:03] just really [ __ ] pissed
[8:06] >> and there was a [clears throat] period
[8:07] of time where it was like I just felt
[8:10] bitter and resentful and pissy for about
[8:14] three weeks.
[8:15] >> Yeah.
[8:16] >> And this was while I was at home
[8:18] caregiving. So it it it was just this
[8:22] stew of like I don't want to feel this
[8:24] way but I do feel this way and I'm
[8:26] around my family and I like all of these
[8:28] pieces.
[8:30] >> And I don't I think there are two things
[8:33] here. one is I don't think we normalize
[8:36] that experience enough to say hey this
[8:40] is a possibility when you are healing or
[8:43] building your nervous system capacity um
[8:46] because you didn't have a place or space
[8:49] to actually process it or feel it in
[8:52] that moment. And so when you begin to do
[8:55] any kind of healing work,
[8:57] >> you're likely going to tap into anger or
[8:59] resentment or bitterness or grief or
[9:02] disappointment or something.
[9:04] >> Yeah.
[9:04] >> Negative.
[9:05] >> Yeah.
[9:06] >> At some moment in time because you just
[9:09] didn't give yourself the the space or
[9:11] the permission to feel it.
[9:14] >> So there's that.
[9:16] The other piece is
[9:19] connected to like, okay, so now that I
[9:22] have it and I feel it, how do I direct
[9:24] it? Like I want it to be productive
[9:27] versus it feeling like Godzilla all the
[9:30] time and now you're just like
[9:32] >> destroying the buildings and destroying
[9:34] the relationships as you move from your
[9:37] dayto day.
[9:39] >> So you wanna
[9:40] >> you want to unravel that a little bit
[9:43] and and see talk about what you see in
[9:46] your your work with people.
[9:49] >> I think the thing to if we just go like
[9:54] way back, you know, you mentioned there
[9:56] was never a time to process that or
[9:59] [clears throat] get it out.
[10:01] Uh if I go way back, like there might
[10:04] even be moments in your life that you
[10:06] won't remember because you were so
[10:07] little. Mhm.
[10:10] >> Uh that there's no tangible like
[10:15] what we would call declarative memory of
[10:18] that was the day that I didn't get this
[10:20] thing that I wanted and my sister did or
[10:22] my brother did or whatever or that was
[10:26] the day that um you know something
[10:28] really bad happened to me with another
[10:30] person and I froze
[10:34] because I my system had to and I
[10:36] couldn't fight. I couldn't flee.
[10:39] But under that is like so much fight and
[10:42] survival energy that wants to break
[10:44] free, but it can't.
[10:48] And so this is where context is so
[10:50] important, Donnie. Like I know that
[10:53] there's workshops in the world cuz I've
[10:55] heard about them. I don't know if
[10:56] they're still around, but like
[10:58] [clears throat]
[10:58] one could say they're a bit culty, but
[11:00] it's like you go to a weekend or a week
[11:04] and it's deep emotional processing and
[11:07] you are given a baseball bat that's
[11:09] plastic and I don't know, pillows or or
[11:12] mannequins or something and you just
[11:14] beat the [ __ ] out of these things
[11:17] because that's what we think anger work
[11:19] is or screaming, you know, and that all
[11:23] might be True.
[11:26] But one of the things that you learn in
[11:28] Smart Body, smart mind is that just the
[11:30] motion of moving
[11:33] the hit or the punch or the kick or the
[11:36] scratch or the scream or the get the
[11:39] heck, I got to get out of here. Like
[11:41] that's different than anger. That's
[11:42] flight energy. But
[11:44] >> those are all very important. We would
[11:46] call stored procedural memories to move
[11:48] out. But just the motion of doing them
[11:52] isn't enough. It has to be connected to
[11:56] something emotional, sensory,
[11:59] um, or even movement based that is very
[12:02] deeply neurological that has to do with
[12:05] maybe the time you could not
[12:08] I I'll just make something up. Put the
[12:10] brakes on the the car really fast and
[12:13] you hit someone and they died.
[12:15] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[12:16] >> And you're pissed because you couldn't
[12:19] put the brakes on for whatever reason. I
[12:22] don't know. just make up a reason and
[12:23] then someone got hurt. And so there's
[12:25] like this conflictingness of I just did
[12:28] something really bad and I wanted to do
[12:30] this but I couldn't.
[12:33] So I kind of paint those little
[12:35] scenarios and we could stay here for 2
[12:37] hours with all the ways that humans get
[12:39] into binds and get traumatized and don't
[12:42] get to fight or flee.
[12:44] And this is where it is so important to
[12:46] understand the diversity of how we do
[12:49] store things.
[12:51] Um, and that something that we might not
[12:54] consider to be traumatic could
[12:56] potentially be. So,
[13:00] like I'm going to go get my teeth
[13:01] cleaned tomorrow, which should be a
[13:03] pretty normal procedure, but I had I had
[13:06] to have some fillings about a month or
[13:08] so ago, and I never need fillings. I'm
[13:10] lucky that way for whatever reason. Mhm.
[13:13] >> They were so far back in my mouth and it
[13:17] was really really intense to have to
[13:19] stay there with this thing in my mouth
[13:21] and I was choking on my spit and then
[13:23] the freezing went down my you know and I
[13:26] wanted to break out of that bloody chair
[13:28] so badly
[13:30] [snorts]
[13:30] >> but I couldn't cuz I'm like if you don't
[13:32] stay here and freeze yourself a bit
[13:34] literally the whole body not just my
[13:36] gums you're going to have to come back
[13:38] and you're going to have to do this all
[13:39] over again. So, I reasoned with myself,
[13:43] but then of course afterwards I had a
[13:46] little bit of shaking energy. I was so
[13:48] tense in my jaw. I think I cried when I
[13:51] got into my car cuz it was so hard to be
[13:53] there. Um,
[13:55] a four-year-old or a 5-year-old or a
[13:58] six-year-old or someone who's 30 who
[14:01] doesn't understand survival physiology
[14:05] wouldn't know how to take themselves
[14:07] through that very intense but routine
[14:09] procedure
[14:11] and then the next day they might snap at
[14:15] their spouse.
[14:16] >> Mhm. or they might sleep and start being
[14:21] violent in a nightmare and hurt the
[14:23] person next to them
[14:25] and they're not connecting the dots
[14:27] with, "Wow, I was just held down or I
[14:30] had to make myself stay still when
[14:32] everything in my physiology wanted to
[14:34] bolt out of that dentist chair and say,
[14:37] "Fuck it. I don't want to do this right
[14:39] now."
[14:41] Right? So, I had the So, I was able to
[14:44] process it. You know, I'm I do some
[14:45] gentle things with my mouth to release
[14:47] the tension. I scream. But when you
[14:50] don't have that knowledge of how we as
[14:52] like there's no way that an animal I
[14:54] mean, you've got a dog. When animals go
[14:56] in for dentistry, cuz I know this cuz my
[14:58] parents were veterinarians. You can't do
[15:00] that with them awake. You have to put
[15:02] them put them under um anesthesia
[15:06] because it doesn't make sense to them.
[15:09] >> You can't reason with that dog no matter
[15:11] how well behaved it is. just breathe and
[15:15] it's going to be over. Like you got to
[15:16] put them out.
[15:19] So when you have an adult that doesn't
[15:21] understand their stress chemistry and
[15:23] their animal nature,
[15:27] that anger is there or whatever it might
[15:30] be. And and if you don't understand it,
[15:32] it can come out. Like you said, you had
[15:34] three weeks of frustration. You knew
[15:36] what was going on. And even though you
[15:38] knew what was going on, it was still
[15:39] tough.
[15:40] >> Yeah.
[15:42] Yeah. I
[15:45] one I just I was at the dentist last
[15:47] week and had to do a feeling. [laughter]
[15:49] >> There you go. So fun.
[15:52] >> Yeah, I I know that. Well, I
[15:54] [clears throat] want to go.
[15:56] >> Um but if I think back to those three
[15:59] weeks,
[16:02] >> uh I was just feeling the intensity of
[16:04] it. That's actually when I started
[16:06] working out more. So, I started going to
[16:10] the one of my um one of the tracks where
[16:15] I used to run.
[16:16] >> Cool.
[16:17] >> I would do
[16:19] semi- rigorous
[16:22] >> like sprints.
[16:23] >> Sprints. Yeah. And workouts. And the
[16:28] first couple of days I realized, oh,
[16:30] that is what it I need it, right? But
[16:34] then I associated, oh, this is this must
[16:38] be my remedy to get the rest of kind of
[16:42] this stored frustration and agitation
[16:44] out.
[16:45] >> Yeah. [clears throat]
[16:46] >> And so after like day four or five
[16:50] of running, I realized it didn't have
[16:52] the same effect.
[16:53] >> And it was now I needed something else.
[16:56] And then there was one day where I
[16:58] actually had to slow down and literally
[17:01] just drag
[17:04] do almost like a a runwalk
[17:06] >> y
[17:07] >> around and just listen to Okay, slow
[17:10] down.
[17:11] >> Slow down more.
[17:13] >> Slow down more.
[17:15] >> To the point where I was I could just
[17:16] feel myself going up and down and
[17:19] looking around the track. I was like,
[17:21] >> I have another 350 meters to go. like,
[17:25] do I have to go this slow this entire
[17:28] >> Yeah.
[17:29] >> time.
[17:30] >> Yeah.
[17:30] >> Yeah.
[17:31] >> And
[17:33] >> and so I did it. And I think what I
[17:36] recognized in that moment was, oh, this
[17:39] is so much more nuanced than, like you
[17:42] said, me running fast or me throwing
[17:46] about around a bunch of weights or
[17:48] screaming into a pillow or, you know,
[17:51] going to a rage room. All of those
[17:53] things have been helpful, but they don't
[17:57] >> they aren't the the remedy.
[18:00] >> No,
[18:02] >> for every moment of anger and
[18:04] frustration and agitation.
[18:06] >> Um, and I think these past couple of
[18:10] weeks when my anger has come up, it's
[18:13] been more
[18:16] connected to grief than anything.
[18:18] >> Yes. Yes. And so now I'm just learning
[18:21] how to allow myself to grieve. And
[18:24] sometimes that looks like crying, but
[18:26] sometimes that looks like sleeping for
[18:27] 10 hours,
[18:29] >> moping
[18:30] [laughter]
[18:31] >> and not doing anything and veging and
[18:33] watching something on Netflix and, you
[18:38] know, going to get ice cream or
[18:40] >> having some tea or having a cup or
[18:43] whatever it is.
[18:44] >> Yeah. And so I'm I'm having to or I
[18:47] shouldn't say I'm having to. I'm getting
[18:49] to relearn how to listen to the
[18:53] different needs of my different
[18:54] emotions, right? And anger doesn't look
[18:57] like one way and grief doesn't look like
[18:59] one way. And I think that's one of the
[19:03] the things that I hope listeners take
[19:06] away
[19:07] >> from this conversation is like your
[19:09] anger is going to look very different
[19:10] than mine
[19:12] >> and it's not always going to be
[19:13] screaming.
[19:14] >> Yep.
[19:15] >> Or
[19:16] >> doing something physical, right? Yeah.
[19:18] Sometimes it's just like
[19:21] >> Yeah. Or like laser eyes. It's like I'm
[19:25] going to kill you, [clears throat]
[19:27] you know? like
[19:29] this is where cartoons and like Avengers
[19:34] and X-Men, you know, with the powers,
[19:36] [snorts]
[19:37] >> it it's a very useful imagery, the
[19:40] superheroes
[19:42] and such, right? And a lot of the times,
[19:46] I mean, uh, the Hulk, the Incredible
[19:48] Hulk is a great example for those that
[19:50] remember the original Hulk. Um, I
[19:53] actually just did an interview with a
[19:55] friend of mine, Josh Murray. His movie
[19:58] is called Gym Rat. You'd love it. It's
[20:00] coming out October 20th. Shout out to
[20:02] Josh. Anyway, I've been supporting them
[20:05] since it was incepted, but they actually
[20:07] have Lou Fargno, who was the original
[20:09] Hulk in the movie.
[20:11] >> Oh, wow.
[20:12] >> And it's about rage and unresolved
[20:14] trauma. And but if you think about those
[20:18] classic scenes, if people remember, if
[20:21] you don't, like go look up original
[20:23] Incredible Hulk, like something would
[20:25] make him mad and he would try to
[20:28] suppress it and he couldn't and then he
[20:30] would, you know, break his shirt open
[20:32] and he'd be all green and he'd be this
[20:33] big monster. But then when he got
[20:36] somewhere that you know everything was
[20:38] fine and you know the damsel in distress
[20:40] or something is there he would just kind
[20:42] of have this look of like oh and then
[20:44] you would see the tenderness in him
[20:47] and then he would walk away with like
[20:49] his tattered clothes you know and and
[20:52] then feel almost and sometimes shame for
[20:55] what he had just done if he had hurt
[20:57] people cuz he wasn't inherently evil. He
[21:00] was you know not who he should have
[21:02] been. He was messed with. Right?
[21:05] >> And so the thing that's interesting with
[21:07] the anger is when it's properly moved
[21:10] out in the way that it has to be for the
[21:13] person and there's containment.
[21:16] Containment doesn't mean suppression,
[21:18] but you contain the anger so it isn't
[21:20] explosive and violent
[21:23] cuz violence is when anger and rage are
[21:26] not able to be contained.
[21:29] Um, when you get it out in the way that
[21:32] you're supposed to, you you walk away
[21:34] feeling better, you feel exhilarated, or
[21:37] you feel more calm. When it comes out in
[21:40] a way that's like not how maybe it
[21:43] should have, there can be, not always,
[21:45] but this sense of
[21:48] that wasn't what was supposed to happen.
[21:50] There can be like a bit of a shame
[21:51] attached to it. And then that's where
[21:53] it's like, okay, there's maybe something
[21:55] deeper under.
[21:57] And when there's been a real like
[21:59] assault or tragedy where there really
[22:01] was something bad that happened to you,
[22:04] that's a very different energy than my
[22:07] mom or dad weren't listening to me
[22:09] properly as a child.
[22:13] >> Yeah. One of
[22:15] the distinctions
[22:17] that you have um that you teach in your
[22:21] course and that was really actually very
[22:23] helpful is you talk about you and talk
[22:27] about like the annihilation energy.
[22:29] >> Yes.
[22:30] >> And the importance of being able to tap
[22:32] into it, be in it, express it.
[22:36] >> But what you say is annihilation is
[22:38] different than violence.
[22:39] >> Yes. Will you just talk about that a
[22:42] little bit so people can hear that?
[22:45] >> Yeah, this is a bit more advanced and
[22:47] Seth does have an article on his site. H
[22:50] if you look up the word annihilation and
[22:53] then my husband's name, Seth Lion,
[22:54] you'll find it and there's two articles
[22:57] actually that are open source on anger
[22:59] and healthy aggression and then that. So
[23:03] for us, this is not actually doing this.
[23:06] So I got to be very clear.
[23:09] I call it kill kill kill kill kill kill
[23:10] kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill
[23:10] kill kill kill kill kill kill kill
[23:10] energy annihilation energy sadism like
[23:14] working with your sadistic tendencies
[23:16] it is what is it's what James Bond
[23:20] villains are made out of
[23:22] if you think about the classic villain
[23:26] they might have some violence but they
[23:28] have this look of like searing rage but
[23:32] it's very directed
[23:34] versus like you know Jack Reacher is
[23:37] just beating everybody up and you know
[23:40] that's just like play fun. like it's not
[23:42] good, but it's like it's violence and
[23:44] it's protection and it's a novel, you
[23:46] know? So, it's like that that phamite up
[23:49] stuff, but it's the James Bond villain
[23:53] stare and the the the conniving evil
[23:56] energy
[23:58] that
[23:59] sometimes we as humans have to allow
[24:04] ourselves to feel when we've been harmed
[24:07] so so deeply.
[24:10] And I'll explain what that might look
[24:11] like in a second with an example. What
[24:13] often happens, Donnie, because most
[24:15] people are good people. I know people
[24:17] don't want to believe that, but most
[24:19] people, if most people weren't good
[24:20] people, we wouldn't be here. The
[24:22] infrastructures would be way worse.
[24:24] Trust me.
[24:26] >> Um, so most people are good people. And
[24:28] so they don't want to hurt someone even
[24:30] if they've been hurt. It's like, no, I
[24:32] can't imagine in my mind hurting my
[24:35] perpetrator or my parents or the person
[24:38] that cut me off. And then it's like,
[24:41] okay, we need to put your goodness and
[24:44] your soul over there like on the
[24:48] bookshelf. It's going to stay there.
[24:50] It's not going to let you go and hurt
[24:52] someone for real cuz it won't. This is
[24:57] the difference between those who have
[24:58] the ability to consciously work with
[25:00] this versus violence where you go out
[25:03] and you harm people.
[25:04] >> Yeah.
[25:05] >> Right. Psychopathy, sociopathy, that
[25:07] kind of thing. But we're going to work
[25:10] with your animal self.
[25:13] We're going to work with the self that
[25:15] wanted to tear that, you know, person's
[25:18] neck off, who attacked you, who abused
[25:22] you. We're going to work with squashing
[25:25] them into a ball like you would see in a
[25:29] superpower movie where you throw that
[25:32] person into the sun like I think
[25:34] Superman might have, you know, with bad
[25:36] people. It's like let's bring them into
[25:38] the sun and they poof they explode, you
[25:41] know? Or let's imagine the black hole
[25:44] that's out there and the only way to get
[25:47] rid of this image that I have of this
[25:49] bad thing is to take that image and box
[25:51] it and put it into that hole and it just
[25:53] gets gobbled up by gremlins and ghosts.
[25:57] And then you might even hear the sound
[25:59] of the he he and ah and like the
[26:02] screaming rage. Now, this might seem
[26:04] really intense for someone who's never
[26:06] even considered
[26:08] growling,
[26:10] right?
[26:12] But this is the edge that we would take
[26:14] someone to and have them go over in
[26:17] their mind to get that. It's really
[26:21] sadistic annihilation. I need to
[26:24] obliterate the this thing, this person.
[26:28] It could be my family system. You know,
[26:30] I've worked with people who are
[26:31] scapegoats in their family and they get
[26:33] it bloody hard.
[26:35] >> Let's put your entire family into that
[26:37] jar of pickles and pickle it. Like, I
[26:40] mean, it's si silly, but like that's and
[26:43] it doesn't have to be what I say. It's
[26:45] what is your imagination in that Lex
[26:48] Luthther, you know, uh, like crazy way.
[26:53] So, this would be annihilation energy.
[26:55] It isn't just beating a baseball bat.
[26:58] It's like color and hearing the sound.
[27:02] The other thing when you're working with
[27:03] and by the way this isn't something that
[27:05] you would do like on session one
[27:07] >> no
[27:08] >> with someone and this isn't actually
[27:10] even taught in the somatic experiencing
[27:12] training. This was taught to us via one
[27:14] of our SE
[27:17] uh senior elders who learned this from a
[27:20] lady by the name of Ivonne Agazerian. I
[27:23] believe she's passed. I'm not sure.
[27:25] Don't quote me on that. But she really
[27:27] worked with sadistic and masochistic
[27:30] energy in people and how important it is
[27:33] to harness that out so it doesn't
[27:36] envelope back to you.
[27:39] >> Because what happens when people don't
[27:41] get it out, they self harm.
[27:44] >> Yeah.
[27:46] There I feel like we're just going to
[27:49] have to have multiple conversations
[27:50] because my brain is like there's all
[27:52] these different pieces that we can talk
[27:54] about. There's a lot
[27:56] >> they I think the first piece to call out
[28:00] is um I'm going to include some of your
[28:04] videos.
[28:06] One being around titration and anger
[28:09] because people need to know
[28:12] like you said not jumping in and doing
[28:15] this in the first session is like this
[28:16] is this happens over time. So you do a
[28:18] little bit and then you back up. You
[28:20] [clears throat] do a little bit and back
[28:21] up. Yep. The
[28:25] the image that came to mind when you
[28:27] were talking about the annihilation
[28:29] energy.
[28:31] >> I was at
[28:34] uh a soccer game
[28:37] like three months ago and one of the
[28:39] players
[28:40] >> little boys was there. He had he might
[28:43] have been like two two and a half.
[28:45] >> Yeah.
[28:46] >> And the dad said, "Hey, don't do that."
[28:48] And the little boy he turned around and
[28:50] went
[28:52] >> [laughter]
[28:53] >> with that finger.
[28:54] >> with that finger.
[28:55] >> Oh, that's so cute.
[28:58] [laughter]
[29:00] >> And at first I was like, "Oh, shoot.
[29:02] Okay, he's he's he's pissed."
[29:05] >> Giving him the finger.
[29:07] >> And I loved it. I'm like, he was fully
[29:10] in his just this is how I feel right now
[29:14] and I'm going to express it to you
[29:17] regardless how you like it. So I there
[29:20] are moments
[29:22] when I feel the intensity of my my
[29:25] annihilation energy or my anger
[29:28] >> where I do that
[29:30] >> and it it's
[29:31] >> it's my connection point because it
[29:34] reminds me of
[29:35] >> the innocence of you know that little
[29:38] kid
[29:38] >> childhood
[29:39] >> right and
[29:41] >> the real like full embodiment of like
[29:44] here's what my body needs to do in this
[29:46] moment to get this thing
[29:50] >> um So I I love that visual for people
[29:54] and I you know I think when you watch
[29:58] kids get angry
[30:00] there is a level of compassion that we
[30:03] just have for them right it's like oh
[30:05] >> we have to yeah
[30:07] >> you're having some big feelings over
[30:08] there and
[30:10] >> yeah yeah
[30:10] >> it's kind of funny watching you have a
[30:12] tantrum so let me let me not dismiss it
[30:17] and really honor the the expression and
[30:20] the experience,
[30:22] >> but also let me remember like, okay,
[30:23] once you get it out, you go back to
[30:25] playing with blocks or, you know,
[30:27] >> yeah,
[30:28] >> pretending to be Spider-Man or Wonder
[30:30] Woman or whoever, and you're okay. And
[30:34] >> I think as adults, we
[30:37] because we don't always express the
[30:39] anger, we don't have the ability to
[30:42] express it fully in that moment because
[30:44] the real consequences, right, you
[30:46] probably shouldn't be flipping off your
[30:48] your boss once you're looking at them.
[30:50] you need to
[30:50] >> no
[30:51] >> wait and do that house. Um
[30:55] but
[30:57] if there is no
[30:59] space to fill it and express it then it
[31:02] just stores and stores and stores and
[31:04] stores and stores
[31:06] >> and I
[31:08] >> well that's a that's a good what you
[31:10] just said about the boss. I mean people
[31:12] might go to work and we do work stuff
[31:14] and
[31:16] we need a job. we can't be socially
[31:18] indecent and you know like Edward Norton
[31:22] was in Fight Club where he was just a
[31:24] menace. I mean it's just but that movie
[31:27] was so good in that it showed what
[31:31] unresolved rage looks like
[31:35] and and he displayed it so perfectly.
[31:38] You know, you can even leave Brad Pitt
[31:39] out of it like he was just being a
[31:41] menace. He was being a dick. Um, so the
[31:46] thing that a lot of the culture has, and
[31:48] I'm being general, is they have a day at
[31:51] work or a week at work or five years at
[31:53] work. And because there is no
[31:57] ritual uh uh practice that many do that
[32:02] cleanses out the stresses of the day.
[32:05] Typically, it's go to the bar and have
[32:07] some beers. I'm not against drinking,
[32:09] but it's like that that is the culture.
[32:11] Or, you know, wait till the weekend and
[32:14] then just party your face off and let it
[32:17] all out. Again, you know, sometimes you
[32:19] got to have a good time. Um or go to the
[32:21] hockey game here in, you know, Vancouver
[32:23] and scream and get mad at the person
[32:26] sitting next to you. Like all that is
[32:29] could be fun culture, right? We'll all
[32:31] agree, you know, I think we agree with
[32:32] that. But if that is something that has
[32:34] to occur to get rid of the stresses of
[32:36] the day all the time, that means that in
[32:38] your day life, daily life, there isn't a
[32:41] recycling
[32:42] of that stress, of that survival energy,
[32:46] and then it pence up and binds up. And
[32:49] that is why people get sick. That is why
[32:51] people go on benders and binge and come
[32:55] home and treat their kids terribly
[32:58] because they didn't know how to process
[33:00] and do a little or a little shake or go
[33:04] for a walk at lunch and release or the
[33:08] tears that wanted to come out and then
[33:10] they come out as violence later in the
[33:12] day to your family members. Right? So
[33:14] there's there is like this missing piece
[33:17] I think in our culture
[33:20] that is not taught and this is a huge
[33:23] conversation because it has to do with
[33:24] just general regulation in our culture
[33:27] um where we don't know how to process
[33:31] stress in real time. We have to go to
[33:34] something to process stress.
[33:38] And I'm again, I'm not saying that going
[33:40] to the yoga class or playing raetball at
[33:42] the end of the day isn't or going to the
[33:44] gym isn't good. Those are all good
[33:45] things. But we can move that stuff out
[33:48] of us in real time.
[33:52] But you have to know how to feel your
[33:53] body and have I mean, you know this
[33:55] lingo from SPSM. Work with the
[33:57] diaphragms. Work with the kidney
[33:59] adrenals. Know how to soften your brain
[34:02] stem. Orient a little bit. Give your
[34:05] body water, food, a break.
[34:09] But we have to push through. And then we
[34:12] disconnect from the body. And then at
[34:15] the end of the day, we're craving body
[34:18] stuff.
[34:20] >> Yeah. I you know you you and I have had
[34:23] conversations around my my voice
[34:26] disorder and it being connected to
[34:29] >> Yeah.
[34:29] >> a lot of dysregulation.
[34:31] >> Sure.
[34:32] >> And what has been coming up lately is
[34:37] the amount of bracing I learned how to
[34:41] do in order to not express my anger. So
[34:45] it's like that thing triggered me.
[34:48] >> Oh yeah. And then you're you're
[34:50] literally suffocating yourself.
[34:52] >> Yeah.
[34:53] >> Yeah.
[34:54] >> Yeah. And
[34:56] to learn how to soften and like move the
[35:00] neck and feel the
[35:03] >> the knot in the back of my like
[35:05] >> Okay. Yeah. That's part of it, too. When
[35:08] it goes up to my eyes and all of these
[35:09] other pieces,
[35:11] >> it's really it's cool now that you asked
[35:14] [laughter] me like three or four years
[35:16] ago. I'm like,
[35:17] >> what are we do? How long does this take?
[35:19] And why why am I doing I just open I
[35:22] opened the box. I know we're going to
[35:24] wrap up here in a few.
[35:25] >> And
[35:27] I think the last piece
[35:30] um is connected to your comments around
[35:33] rage.
[35:34] >> Yeah,
[35:35] >> I'm still trying to think figure out do
[35:38] I think about anger and rage as being
[35:40] one and the same or do I think about
[35:42] them as being different things
[35:46] >> differently? They're different. How are
[35:48] they best for you?
[35:49] >> I I would say um
[35:52] anger is we would I mean this is this is
[35:55] like psychology talk but like the the
[35:58] basic emotions are fear, anger, sadness,
[36:04] disgust and surprise. Joy, sorry. Six.
[36:09] And anger is an interesting one because
[36:12] it's protective.
[36:15] Sadness isn't protective. Sad, you know,
[36:17] surprise isn't protective. Joy isn't
[36:20] protective.
[36:23] Disgust isn't protective. But anger is
[36:26] it is a survival element.
[36:32] And there's I'm going to draw a line
[36:33] with my hand. Like there's gradations,
[36:35] right? There's what you There's
[36:37] irritation.
[36:40] Now that that stuff is just irritating
[36:42] me. Why did this not irritate me before
[36:44] and now it is? Right? It could be little
[36:47] things like, "Oh, the shoes are always
[36:49] all over the garage." Like, that just
[36:51] pisses me off. Why can't they put them
[36:53] the way they should be? Right? Whereas
[36:55] before you just let it slide. And then
[36:57] there's like, yeah, irritation,
[36:59] frustration. Um, when we have stored
[37:02] anger or anger that's not moving out, we
[37:06] can snap at people. we can be over
[37:09] coupled with things that have nothing to
[37:11] do with what we're angry. And that's
[37:13] where like the classic your day is fine
[37:16] and and then you scream at the post man
[37:19] or the bank teller and it has nothing to
[37:21] do with the bank teller or the post, you
[37:24] know, it's like it's something old. And
[37:26] then there's like healthy aggression,
[37:29] which is natural in all humans. And
[37:32] babies start that when they start to
[37:35] pull and scratch and bite. It's not cuz
[37:39] they're trying to be mean to mom.
[37:42] It's because I've got claws. I have
[37:45] teeth. I have strength. And I want to
[37:48] use it. And the thing that you want to
[37:50] do when a baby starts to get that is you
[37:52] want to play with them.
[37:55] You don't want to punish them. And I'm
[37:58] sure we could find in internet videos
[38:00] that show moms punishing. I I've heard
[38:04] that some people will say, I don't know
[38:06] who these people are, but I've heard
[38:07] this from moms, that if a baby is biting
[38:10] you or hurting you, you pinch them back.
[38:14] Like you give them a shock with pain.
[38:16] It's like a conditioned Pavlovian. It's
[38:19] like spanking, right? Or you know, my
[38:21] dad grew up in the world where you're,
[38:23] you know, ruler. I've got a wooden ruler
[38:25] here cuz I still have one from school,
[38:27] you know. So, it's like we do that to
[38:30] babies when they do things that we think
[38:32] aren't right, but that's just their
[38:34] animal. They're like, it's strong.
[38:36] [clears throat]
[38:36] >> Yeah, I'm online.
[38:38] >> It's like, look at me. And that's where
[38:40] you like, whoa, look at how strong you
[38:42] are. And maybe they're hurting your
[38:44] hair. And you don't say you're hurting
[38:46] mommy's hair. You just say, let's pull.
[38:48] Yeah. And then you smile. And because
[38:50] that healthy aggression also connects to
[38:52] life force
[38:55] that's the I am I'm going to protect
[38:57] myself. This is my body. I feel it. So
[39:01] there's so there's like irritation,
[39:02] frustration, healthy aggression. Rage is
[39:06] more so something that comes up when it
[39:08] has been so repressed for so long.
[39:14] And a person can rage and not be
[39:16] violent.
[39:18] One could say that when a toddler is
[39:21] having like the kind of tantrum where
[39:24] everyone has to close like this cuz it's
[39:25] so loud, that is little person rage.
[39:29] That's rage. They're not trying to be a
[39:31] nuisance. They have reached their max
[39:33] and they are over their max and they got
[39:35] to get it out.
[39:36] >> Yeah.
[39:38] >> Um and then violence of course is we all
[39:42] know what that is. Um it's when you hurt
[39:45] others, you hurt yourself in the
[39:46] process.
[39:48] And it isn't always big. I mean, I've
[39:51] done some talks on the case of the uni
[39:54] bomber, Ted Gazinski.
[39:56] That's a great story to research to
[39:59] understand.
[40:01] Uh, violence doesn't have to look like a
[40:03] big monster who's ripping your head off.
[40:06] It was very slow, very vindictive, but
[40:08] he was deeply hurt throughout his
[40:12] childhood and then finally by the
[40:13] government through MK Ultra, right? And
[40:16] so it's like, okay, that made what he
[40:19] did, not that it was right, made sense
[40:21] to me. He put bombs in postage packages
[40:26] to that was his way of saying, "F you."
[40:30] >> Yeah.
[40:31] >> Anyway, so that's like the spectrum. Of
[40:33] course, there's lots of nuance in that,
[40:36] but when we cannot contain and control
[40:40] and move it out, but we rage, it's not
[40:42] it's not going to integrate. So, we want
[40:44] to find these ways to first work with
[40:47] our physiology to get to know this
[40:50] inside
[40:52] because in order to really move healthy
[40:54] anger out, you need to be connected to
[40:57] the root. Like if I bring in the
[40:58] chakras, the root chakra needs to be
[41:01] open as does the throat, as does here,
[41:05] as does the top of the head. And what
[41:07] happens, Donnie, is when people try to
[41:09] get that stuff out and these these
[41:12] corners of the body are shut, it's like
[41:14] you're trying to squeak out a scream.
[41:19] Um,
[41:20] it's like a it's like an opera singer
[41:22] who can't move in their diaphragm.
[41:25] Like to get that sound out, you have to
[41:28] have these big chambers moving.
[41:32] The other thing I'll say, because I'm
[41:33] sure there's some, you know, ladies
[41:35] here, like it's hard to birth children
[41:38] naturally and easily when you can't
[41:41] express your anger and you can't ex get
[41:44] into this body cuz everything is so
[41:47] tight.
[41:48] >> Yeah.
[41:49] >> And the just one more piece, the jaw
[41:51] here, this TMJ in osteopathic and
[41:54] probably Chinese medicine is connected
[41:56] to the hips.
[41:58] So when the jaw is tight, the hips are
[42:01] tight and vice versa. When the hips are
[42:03] really tight, this can't open. So that's
[42:06] it's a chain, right? It's all connected.
[42:12] This is so good. And you uh I've
[42:16] actually been wanting to have this
[42:18] conversation with you for probably a
[42:20] year and a half.
[42:22] >> At least it's not five years. That's
[42:24] good. [laughter]
[42:27] It's one of my f It's a favorite top
[42:29] book topic of mine because we just don't
[42:32] see it done healthfully.
[42:34] >> Yeah.
[42:36] um other cultures
[42:38] that have dance and chanting and
[42:43] drumming and ceremony and ritual and I
[42:47] don't mean you know we have a little
[42:48] candle that we light and have a fire in
[42:50] our backyard like
[42:52] like where it's integrated into the
[42:54] society
[42:56] there's a reason why those things have
[42:59] sound and and chanting and singing and
[43:03] clapping ing and stomping
[43:08] and all. It's like it's getting into the
[43:10] body. Um, and what we tend to do in our
[43:12] more western world is we have we go to
[43:16] the singing and then we go to the yoga
[43:18] and then we go to the whatever. And it's
[43:21] like but we need to we need to bring it
[43:23] all together. And it doesn't have to be
[43:25] a religion or a dogma. Let's just think
[43:28] back to like ancestors
[43:32] and what they were doing, right?
[43:38] Yeah. I I'm really kind of fascinated to
[43:42] see what ends up kind of emerging for me
[43:49] in the next couple of months and maybe
[43:51] even the next year because
[43:56] >> because of my desire to have
[43:58] conversations like this around like what
[44:00] does grief look like?
[44:02] >> What does anger look like? What does it
[44:04] look like when it is expressed through
[44:08] movement in the body? What does it look
[44:10] like when it is vocalized? Right? I
[44:12] think my
[44:14] >> communication training work has changed
[44:17] a lot
[44:19] >> because now most of my conversations
[44:21] with leaders are around like what do you
[44:24] need to say?
[44:26] Yeah.
[44:26] >> Yeah. You can play nice, but like
[44:29] >> you're not going to play it nice and
[44:31] >> tell me what you need to say. And let's
[44:33] >> focus on communicating that in different
[44:37] ways. You can have um
[44:39] >> Yeah.
[44:39] >> Hey, here's a way that's going to get
[44:41] you fired and here's a way that might be
[44:42] a little more diplomatic. Which Yes.
[44:45] Which way do you want to go?
[44:46] >> Yes.
[44:48] Um and and so it's cool to see how
[44:53] coming back online is getting expressed
[44:56] through my personal relationships,
[44:58] through my professional work,
[45:00] >> even through my creativity. Like I'm
[45:02] getting back into more artistic
[45:05] endeavors, which has been kind of cool.
[45:08] So, we'll see.
[45:10] >> It comes back to that life force.
[45:12] >> Yeah. Um,
[45:15] we all have it or had it
[45:18] or if we didn't have it in our 3D
[45:22] vessel, our soul is waiting
[45:26] for it. If I just say that. And if we've
[45:31] really been damaged
[45:33] physically, emotionally, sexually,
[45:36] spiritually, which happens to people,
[45:38] you got to work a little harder to get
[45:41] all the pieces online.
[45:44] But that that spark of the life force,
[45:47] that is where the animal energy
[45:52] can be really useful. and then
[45:54] connecting it to the human energy which
[45:56] is the creativity.
[45:59] Right? Humans are inherently creative.
[46:04] >> And we can maintain our creativity with
[46:07] sustainability
[46:09] when we're not in nervous system
[46:11] dysregulation.
[46:13] Like and we all know of artists who have
[46:15] not lasted past age 28, 27 cuz their
[46:19] creativity was unchecked. It was
[46:21] unhinged.
[46:23] We got some great art and music and and
[46:26] that but they burned out because there
[46:29] wasn't that recycling.
[46:31] And I think the thing I think the next
[46:34] sort of uh evolution if you want to call
[46:36] that for those wanting to go this path
[46:39] of like real deep
[46:42] human evolution is the animal has to be
[46:47] taken care of us.
[46:50] the the mental has to be because we have
[46:53] this brain which is the human but then
[46:55] the creativity is like I don't think
[46:58] we've even seen
[47:01] what's possible.
[47:04] Um we know what animals can do in the
[47:07] wild. They do pretty good without us.
[47:10] [laughter]
[47:11] And so we got a little bit more work to
[47:13] do because of this higher brain
[47:15] and then our different capacities is is
[47:18] these soul creatures. So, but I I cannot
[47:22] say enough if anyone is here who is is
[47:24] suffering from what we might call
[47:26] depression, chronic illness,
[47:30] directional challenge, like you just
[47:32] don't know.
[47:34] go back, find someone to work with, you
[47:37] know, work with me, work with you, and
[47:39] like what was the core wound that didn't
[47:42] allow that life force
[47:45] to keep shining or what put that out
[47:49] >> or what put that out in your ancestry
[47:51] that you're still trying to like spark
[47:53] back up with the lighter?
[47:57] >> Yeah.
[47:59] Um there might be some people who are
[48:02] interested in in learning more about you
[48:04] and your work. So I'll include that
[48:05] there. But do you want to say a little
[48:07] bit about foundations?
[48:09] >> Yeah. Yeah. So um I'll do a little plug.
[48:13] >> Yeah. [laughter]
[48:15] It's all you
[48:17] >> I don't care anymore. It's like this is
[48:19] what I do. Um so I I'm a practitioner.
[48:22] I've been a practitioner of human health
[48:24] and healing since 97. Feld and Christ
[48:27] train somatic experiencing and then all
[48:30] the level not all but some pretty deep
[48:32] offshoots from Peter Lavine's work
[48:34] working with early trauma.
[48:37] So I put the first ever online course on
[48:40] trauma healing out there in 2014
[48:44] and then it got really jelled in 2016.
[48:46] So it's been over 10 years and with
[48:50] anything you know it's not perfect the
[48:52] first time and as you know we've added
[48:55] things we've improved things we've taken
[48:57] things out and so after about 10 years
[49:01] of feedback Donnie we I'm like okay we
[49:04] need to shift how this is presented cuz
[49:07] there was still a lot of confusion on
[49:09] how to do the work and so
[49:12] now smart body smart mind is in three
[49:14] segments it's completely self-study. If
[49:18] people want to be part of a membership
[49:20] to be on live calls, that is extra, you
[49:23] know, in terms of a monthly fee, but I
[49:24] think it's fair because there's a lot of
[49:26] good stuff there. But the foundations
[49:29] curriculum is completely new and it's
[49:33] really what I have been teaching more
[49:35] and more in my uh mentorships with
[49:39] practitioners and training. when I am on
[49:41] live calls, drop in classes, I will be
[49:44] more integrated in how I teach and how I
[49:46] practice.
[49:48] So, foundations is uh yeah, audio
[49:51] lessons, but they're not they're nothing
[49:55] like what anyone will have probably
[49:57] taught.
[49:58] >> Yeah, they're
[50:00] it's foundational attunement. Like, it's
[50:03] reatuning yourself to your biology. It's
[50:06] the stuff that you we should have gotten
[50:07] when we were little, like baby little.
[50:10] And then the the theory is eight
[50:12] training videos I'm teaching. There's
[50:14] handouts. You literally fill in the
[50:17] blanks. So it's like active learning.
[50:19] It's not can't be passive. So I'll say
[50:22] that like if someone here just wants to
[50:24] be entertained by me cuz they like
[50:26] listening to me. It's not it like you
[50:28] can do that but you have to like pen to
[50:30] paper. I even get people to say out loud
[50:33] some of the things even though I'm not
[50:35] there. Voicing what we're learning is
[50:38] super important. So that's foundations.
[50:41] Um, one could say you would take 3 weeks
[50:44] to go through it. 3 to four weeks. And
[50:47] then and then level one, which is SPSM
[50:50] level one, is what you would have
[50:52] originally gone through a portion of it.
[50:54] But even that, I've redone the breathing
[50:57] lessons. I've redone the joints lessons.
[50:59] I've re redone the containment lessons,
[51:02] [laughter]
[51:02] and I've redone the three training calls
[51:04] that go with it. So, um, it's actually
[51:07] it's the same concepts, Donnie, but it's
[51:10] packaged in what I've learned over 10
[51:13] years, and we have already seen people
[51:17] who have gone through it all are having
[51:20] more effect because of the way it's been
[51:22] stacked.
[51:24] >> Um, and that's just from experience.
[51:25] Like, I didn't know 10 years ago what
[51:27] was needed. Um, I knew something was
[51:29] needed. Um, but I'm really excited about
[51:33] this new evolution.
[51:35] Um, it's just simpler, but it's also
[51:38] more complex. It's kind of weird to
[51:40] describe that, but that's what it's
[51:42] like.
[51:43] >> I love it. I'm I'm excited about going
[51:45] through foundations and
[51:46] >> Yeah.
[51:47] >> and going through SPSM
[51:50] level one again because I learn
[51:53] something different every time I
[51:56] >> Yeah.
[51:57] >> go through it. So the the work just
[51:59] becomes more and more integrated.
[52:01] >> You have to repeat it.
[52:03] >> Y
[52:03] >> I mean I can't tell you how many times
[52:05] I've taught those training calls, how
[52:07] many times I've taught basic orienting.
[52:10] >> Um it gets boring,
[52:14] but it gets to be like your second
[52:17] language.
[52:19] And that's what most many of us did not
[52:22] get in our initial connections with the
[52:25] humans and the environment. we didn't
[52:27] get the right stuff.
[52:29] And when you're a baby, you don't just
[52:31] get picked up once. You have to get
[52:33] picked up every day, multiple times a
[52:37] day for years. And then, of course,
[52:39] toddlers. And and so people have this
[52:41] thought that a somatic nervous system
[52:44] exercise where you just shake a little
[52:46] bit, you know, and do this is going to
[52:48] be what gives you regulation. We It's
[52:51] like we have to flip it on its head and
[52:54] be like we got to go back to how you re
[52:56] how you learned when you were little.
[52:59] And this is not a quick fix
[53:03] sound exercise where you do some sounds
[53:05] like it's really I think it's exciting
[53:09] cuz it's something that I've seen works
[53:13] and I do feel when we can get this part
[53:16] right
[53:17] the other stuff we do whether it's
[53:19] massage fitness
[53:22] choir school like we've had students
[53:25] Donnie who have gone back to post-secary
[53:26] education in their 60s
[53:30] cuz they finally can learn
[53:34] because they're not in survival stress.
[53:37] >> Yeah.
[53:37] >> Um so it's it's like I mean I'm not
[53:40] going to do it or maybe I like I'd love
[53:42] to go back to university and just see
[53:44] what it's like to be in university and
[53:46] learn without being driven with
[53:49] functional freeze. I mean could you
[53:50] imagine?
[53:51] >> I Yeah. I literally have [laughter] been
[53:55] in a certificate class for the past
[53:58] month and a half and didn't do anything
[54:03] um until the deadline which was last
[54:07] Friday. Uh
[54:08] >> oh.
[54:08] >> Because I was just I was toast from
[54:10] caregiving from travel
[54:13] >> like decompress.
[54:16] >> Yeah. And I the last two days I sat
[54:19] there and I could feel myself freaking
[54:22] out. And then as I started
[54:24] [clears throat] reading and going
[54:25] through it, it it was hard and tedious,
[54:30] but it was so much more enjoyable
[54:32] because I'm like, "Oh,
[54:34] >> I'm actually taking in the information
[54:36] and remembering the information and
[54:38] >> oh, I'm doing well on these quizzes and
[54:40] I can do this." And so school felt a lot
[54:43] easier.
[54:44] >> Yeah.
[54:45] because of the regulation and my new my
[54:48] new course started today and I'm not I'm
[54:51] not waiting
[54:52] >> good to do it.
[54:54] >> So it's going to be fun watching
[54:57] myself learn in a more peaceful kind of
[55:00] regulated space. [clears throat]
[55:02] >> It's what we need.
[55:04] >> It is definitely what we need. We need
[55:06] you. We need Seth. We need the work that
[55:09] you all are continuing to do with
[55:11] people.
[55:11] >> And you're and you too, darling. You're
[55:13] moving it. You're going to move it. I
[55:14] know you're moving it forward. So,
[55:16] >> thank you.
[55:18] >> Thank you. Thank you.
[55:19] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[55:21] >> I hope you
[55:22] >> No, I know. I know you're busy. You're
[55:24] getting ready to to do some traveling.
[55:27] So,
[55:27] >> yes.
[55:27] >> Thank you for your time.
[55:29] >> You are welcome.
[55:30] >> Thank you for the conversation and we
[55:32] will talk soon.
[55:34] >> Bye bye everyone.
[55:36] >> Bye.