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Inspiration

Why Freedom Feels Lost in Love: The Self-Betrayal Pattern

Sahara Rose
Sahara Rose
Oct 21, 2026
9 min read

From Sahara Rose

Watch · 7

Picture a podcaster who has spent a decade teaching people to speak from the soul, fronting a festival, writing about love and sex, and posting music videos of herself twerking on a motorcycle. Then picture her saying, on her own show, that every time love has entered her life, she has quietly turned something down to keep it. That is the scene at the center of a 2026 episode of The Highest Self Podcast, where Sahara Rose sits down with transformational coach Alyssa Nobriga, a former therapist who founded the Institute for Mastery, to work through a wound that Rose says she has never fully finished with. The conversation moves from the feeling that love and full self-expression are a zero-sum trade, to the idea that every contraction in your life is a signal pointing toward the root, to the claim that the real injury in a breakup is rarely the rupture itself but the way we abandon ourselves afterward. It is a dense, intimate hour, and it rewards anyone who has ever felt their freedom shrink the moment someone got close.

Read · 7 sections

Why does love always seem to cost me my self-expression?

Rose does not frame her problem as a lack of desire for partnership. She frames it as a bargain she keeps making. "Expression is who I am," she says, "but it has always felt like I can't be in love and be fully expressed. It has to be one or the other." (Sahara Rose, 1:16)

What makes the admission sharp is the detail she gives about how the bargain works. She describes limiting parts of herself that she believed would make a partner uncomfortable, and divorcing herself from them because she wanted to be in love. Only after her divorce did she feel fully expressed, and then came the fear. She does not want to lose the playfulness, the sexiness, the creative work she is proud of. The fear sounds like a second pattern hiding inside the first: she gives up expression to get love, then loses love and feels she cannot get expression back without losing love again.

The episode's opening cut sets the stakes for the whole conversation. The speakers name an "unconscious belief that action will lead to pain," and reflect back the sentence that anchors the hour: "I'm hearing that you actually can't be free in relationship." Rose's own response is blunt: it is "not my favorite version of me." Anyone who has tried to build a relationship while quietly editing themselves will recognize the move.

What does it mean to treat contraction as a breadcrumb?

Nobriga's approach begins with a reframe that she applies to money and love alike. "I tend to look at anything that's contracting us as a breadcrumb to help free us," she tells Rose. (Alyssa Nobriga, around 4:50) The idea is that a stressful feeling is not a verdict on your life. It is information about where you are still bound.

She is also skeptical of surface fixes. Her metaphor is whack-a-mole: resolve one problem and the same pattern pops up in another area, because the ego keeps producing the same strategy under new circumstances. The alternative she describes is working "at the root," so that the insight can be applied across every area at once. This is why she treats the question "Why do I keep finding myself in this situation?" as a serious inquiry rather than a complaint. The repeated situation is the clue.

The same logic extends to the collective mood the conversation opens with: scarcity at work, relationships that feel harder to find or deepen, a general sense that things which used to work no longer do. Nobriga's answer does not dismiss that stress or ask people to be positive about it. It asks what the stress is pointing to inside the person experiencing it, which is a far more useful question than whether the economy is fair.

Are we really attracted to people who mirror our wounds?

This is the most provocative claim in the segment, and Nobriga makes it carefully. "If we can understand that we're attracted to people because they are a perfect puzzle piece for our wounds, then it's less about trying to manage and change them," she says, "and it's more about what is this person mirroring to me? What's the pattern they're mirroring to me inside of myself?" (Alyssa Nobriga, around 6:06)

The shift is from control to curiosity. If the partner who frustrates you is reflecting a belief you carry, then trying to change them is a way of avoiding the belief. Nobriga is not telling listeners that a partner is to blame, nor that their pain is imaginary. She is saying the partner has made a pattern visible, and the work is in what the pattern is.

She also takes a position in a debate that therapists have long argued about. Some people hold that healing from a relational wound must happen in relationship; others insist that you must take full responsibility for your experience on your own. Nobriga, drawing on her years as a couple's therapist, answers with a qualified yes to both. "I'm a yes and," she says. We are relational beings and need people who can meet us in depth, but "we have to learn those tools for ourselves because if we outsource it, that's where a lot of the anxiety comes from." (Alyssa Nobriga, around 7:15)

To illustrate how a childhood pattern forms, she offers a hypothetical that is worth sitting with. Imagine a hyper-independent woman who became self-reliant because a parent could not attune to her, or because she perceived that they could not. Her protective strategy becomes "do it myself." That strategy can produce real success, a growing company, a reliable career. It can also quietly hurt. The episode's title points directly to the father wound, though the portion of the conversation available here stays at the level of this general mechanism.

Where does the real hurt in a breakup come from?

The cold open of the episode contains the line that reframes the whole topic: "It's not actually the rupture with them that hurts, it's our own self-betrayal." The companion sentence makes the logic explicit: "if you're trying to avoid getting hurt, you end up getting hurt." (Episode opening, 0:00)

This is an uncomfortable idea, and it is the one that makes the rest of the conversation work. Most of us assume the loss of a partner is the injury. The episode argues the injury is the moment we turn against ourselves to avoid the loss: editing our expression, going quiet, deciding in advance that the relationship cannot hold our full selves. The person who leaves hurts; the person who has already left themselves hurts more.

Rose connects this to her own experience with a detail that is easy to skim past and important to notice. She describes a protective part of herself that decides it is over after a couple of quiet days. That part does not necessarily reflect the relationship's actual condition. It reflects a strategy designed to keep her from being hurt again, and it acts before the hurt has happened.

How do you stay with sadness without trying to fix it?

The episode's promise of "a simple way to stay with sadness without trying to fix it" points to the practical center of the work. In the portion available, Nobriga describes meeting the feeling the way a child would and simply being with it, rather than rushing it toward resolution. The impulse to fix a feeling is often the same protective pattern that edits self-expression: a way to make the discomfort go away so that no one has to be affected by it.

Staying with sadness is not wallowing. It is a way of refusing to abandon yourself in the moment when abandonment feels safest. The practice connects directly to the self-betrayal idea. If the hurt is the self-betrayal, then the first act of repair is to stop doing it, even while the feeling is still present.

Can you be deeply in love and still fully yourself?

The closing question of the segment is the one Rose has been carrying for years: whether being deeply in love and being fully yourself can coexist. Nobriga's framework suggests they can, but not in the way the old bargain assumed. Love is not a prize handed to you once you have shrunk enough to be acceptable. Her phrasing, that love is "something that gets awakened in you rather than handed to you," shifts the question from who gives love to who you are becoming in its presence.

The conversation also gestures at what full expression might look like in a relationship: holding the lover and the warrior together, and letting the inner knowing and the fears both have room. In that picture, the partner is not the judge of your expression. You are the one who keeps the expression alive, and a partner who can meet you in it is a gift, not a requirement.

Nothing in the material promises that this integration is easy or finished. Rose is explicit that she does not believe the inner work ever ends. That honesty is what makes the episode useful. It does not offer a single insight that solves a lifelong pattern. It offers a way of seeing the pattern clearly enough that you can stop betraying yourself while you learn.

Where to go from here

If this episode landed on a wound of your own, start small. Notice the next time you feel your expression tighten in the presence of someone you care about, and ask what that contraction is pointing toward. Notice whether the protective decision to step back is arriving before anything has actually happened. And when sadness arrives, try staying with it for a few minutes without trying to fix it.

For the full conversation, watch the episode on The Highest Self Podcast channel with Sahara Rose and Alyssa Nobriga, and read the description, which links Nobriga's free five-day belief rewiring challenge. The episode itself is the best place to hear the tenderness in how these ideas are offered. The point is not to memorize a framework. It is to recognize, in your own life, the moment you start leaving yourself to keep love close, and to decide, a little more gently each time, to stay.

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Transcript

[0:00] Anything that is showing up in your

[0:02] life, whether it's money or love, is the

[0:03] same. We're working it out at the root,

[0:05] okay?

[0:05] >> But why do I keep finding myself in this

[0:07] situation?

[0:08] >> It just means that we have an

[0:09] unconscious belief that action will lead

[0:11] to pain. Like, if I'm in a relationship

[0:13] >> And so I'm wondering if it's that I can

[0:15] only be myself when I'm single, when

[0:18] there's a

[0:18] >> that. That's good insight. Yeah, I'm

[0:20] hearing that you actually can't be free

[0:22] in relationship.

[0:23] >> not my favorite version of me.

[0:25] >> Yeah, this is where it roots from, this

[0:27] experience. So, if you're trying to

[0:29] avoid getting hurt, you end up getting

[0:31] hurt. These are the same principles that

[0:32] apply with money and love. It's not

[0:33] actually the rupture with them that

[0:35] hurts, it's our own self-betrayal.

[0:37] [music]

[0:55] Welcome back to the Highest Self

[0:56] podcast. My name is Sahara Rose, and on

[0:58] this podcast, I love to talk about

[1:00] spirituality, matters of the heart, but

[1:02] make it modern, fun, grounded, and

[1:04] relatable, so it can actually serve your

[1:06] needs.

[1:07] You're going to see a different side of

[1:09] me in this episode.

[1:11] One of my dear friends, an incredible

[1:13] transformational coach, Alyssa Nobriga,

[1:16] coaches me

[1:17] on something really vulnerable that I'm

[1:19] working through. And I wanted to share

[1:22] this side of me here on the podcast

[1:23] because

[1:25] the work is never done. You know, we all

[1:27] have these new frontiers, and for me, it

[1:30] has been a lot around my expression,

[1:34] which so much of my work, teaching from

[1:37] the Speak With Soul method, hosting this

[1:39] podcast for 10 years,

[1:41] creating my festival,

[1:43] expression is who I am, but it has

[1:45] always felt like I can't be in love and

[1:48] be fully expressed. It has to be one or

[1:50] the other, and

[1:52] I've still to this day not been been in

[1:54] a relationship

[1:56] long-term that I have felt like my full

[1:59] expression would like understood and

[2:01] applauded. It always felt like I had to

[2:04] limit parts of myself that make the

[2:06] person feel uncomfortable. They wouldn't

[2:08] like it.

[2:09] And because I wanted to be in love, I

[2:12] divorced myself from those parts of

[2:13] myself. And then after I literally got

[2:15] divorced

[2:17] and became so expressed, there's this

[2:18] part of me that's like, "Fuck, I don't

[2:20] want to lose it." Like I don't want to

[2:21] lose

[2:22] this expression, this fun, this

[2:24] playfulness, this sexiness, the things I

[2:26] share about like my new Substack all

[2:29] about love, sex, and creativity, my

[2:31] music, my music videos when I'm twerking

[2:33] on my motorcycle and doing my thing. I

[2:35] love this side of myself. Oh, [ __ ] but

[2:37] a man is not going to like it. And it

[2:39] feels like this battle and Alyssa works

[2:42] me through the core root of where that

[2:44] comes from.

[2:45] And beyond that, she shares how you can

[2:47] do the same for people.

[2:50] So, if you've ever felt like you want to

[2:51] go deeper with people, deeper with

[2:53] yourself, this episode is for you.

[2:55] So, without further ado, let's welcome

[2:57] my dear friend, transformational coach,

[2:59] therapist turned Institute for Mastery

[3:02] founder who has transformed the lives of

[3:04] thousands of people through her

[3:05] certification. And we have a special

[3:07] discount for you to be trained by her as

[3:09] well. Let us welcome Alyssa Nobriga here

[3:11] on The Highest Self Podcast.

[3:13] Welcome back, Alyssa, to The Highest

[3:15] Self Podcast. It is so incredible to

[3:17] have you here again.

[3:18] >> I'm so happy to be here.

[3:20] >> So, last time you came on, it was one of

[3:22] the most downloaded episodes because you

[3:24] are someone that I personally go to

[3:26] whenever I have any kind of block around

[3:31] beliefs, mindset. I mean, even things

[3:33] that appear to be like very real for me,

[3:35] like relationships in the state of the

[3:37] world and the economy and like all these

[3:38] things going on and

[3:40] the way like you were literally my

[3:43] Buddha friend, you know, and

[3:45] and I love that you've created your

[3:46] Institute for Mastery and you teach

[3:48] other people on how to apply this

[3:50] mastery method into their lives, which

[3:52] for me, it has it In my divorce, I

[3:54] remember coming to you and telling you

[3:55] what happened and the way that you were

[3:57] able to handle it with such grace, I

[3:59] will never forget. And I'm just so

[4:01] excited now cuz last time you were on

[4:03] the podcast was right after my divorce,

[4:05] maybe like two, three months after.

[4:08] So, here we are almost four years later,

[4:10] which is freaking crazy.

[4:11] >> Yeah.

[4:12] >> And I've been so grateful to learn from

[4:15] you and to witness your method just

[4:18] reach so many people's lives and bring

[4:19] it to the podcast listeners so they can

[4:21] instantly apply it to their lives today

[4:23] to have better relationships, more

[4:25] money, less stress, and more fun. So,

[4:28] welcome here to the podcast.

[4:29] >> Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited to dive in.

[4:32] >> So, a lot of us are struggling with two

[4:35] things right now, I feel. Our

[4:38] relationships, whether it's finding the

[4:39] right relationship or really having the

[4:41] depth and the communication that we

[4:43] desire in our relationship. And then

[4:45] money, you know, AI, the economy, the

[4:47] state of the world. It feels like the

[4:49] things that used to be working aren't

[4:50] working. It feels like there's a

[4:51] scarcity in the workplace right now and

[4:55] I'm feeling people are collectively

[4:56] really stressed and burnt out and I know

[4:59] a lot of people are People listening to

[5:00] this podcast right now feel the same.

[5:03] How can we, without bypassing how we

[5:07] feel, move through this really tough

[5:09] moment for the collective?

[5:10] >> Mhm.

[5:11] Yeah, I mean, I tend to look at anything

[5:14] that's contracting us as a breadcrumb to

[5:16] help free us. So, it can be rough to be

[5:19] human and without the tools to navigate

[5:22] that, I I can see why

[5:24] addiction and suffering is so prevalent

[5:27] in the world. And so, part of my

[5:29] intention is to make sure that people

[5:30] have perspectives and ways to self-coach

[5:33] or really apply them to themselves to

[5:35] offer themselves more freedom. And so,

[5:39] anything that is showing up in your

[5:40] life, whether it's money or love, you

[5:42] can use it as a vehicle towards your

[5:44] healing, towards your awakening. Single

[5:47] or with somebody, have money or don't

[5:49] have money. Whatever the thing is that's

[5:50] triggering you is here to free you if

[5:52] you use it that way. And so, I like to

[5:55] work things at the root. I'm not so

[5:57] interested in the surface level change

[5:58] because it's almost like whack-a-mole.

[6:01] You could just try to resolve one

[6:02] problem, but if the ego doesn't if you

[6:04] don't kind of wake up to the patterns

[6:06] that the egos are creating, it's just

[6:08] going to replace one problem with

[6:09] another. It'll pop up in another area of

[6:11] your life. So, I like getting to the

[6:12] root so that you can elevate it in every

[6:14] other area of your life. And oftentimes,

[6:17] like when people are looking for their

[6:19] partner

[6:21] a partner or their partner to be

[6:22] different, we lose our power.

[6:25] And if we can help understand, for

[6:27] example, we can start with

[6:28] relationships, but if we can understand

[6:31] that we're attracted to people because

[6:33] they are a perfect puzzle piece for our

[6:36] wounds, then it's less about trying to

[6:39] manage and change them, and it's more

[6:41] about what is this person mirroring to

[6:43] me? What's the pattern they're mirroring

[6:44] to me inside of myself? And how do I

[6:46] resolve that within myself or in that

[6:49] partnership? I think there's two schools

[6:51] of thought. Some people are like, do it

[6:52] on your own if it was um and then like

[6:55] you're 100% responsible for your

[6:57] experience, and then other schools of

[6:58] thought, having been a a couple's

[7:00] therapist, other schools of thought say

[7:01] if it happened in relationship, it needs

[7:03] to heal in relationship. And I'm a yes

[7:05] and. I'm like, yes to having the tools

[7:08] to be responsible for experience, and

[7:10] we're relational beings, and we want

[7:11] people that are going to mirror us and

[7:13] meet us in the depth. But we have to

[7:15] learn those tools for ourselves because

[7:17] if we outsource it, that's where a lot

[7:19] of the anxiety comes from.

[7:20] And so, it's cliché, but a lot of these

[7:23] things do relate back to childhood. And

[7:27] but we are perfect puzzle pieces. So,

[7:29] let's say I am a hyper-independent

[7:32] woman, and I became self-reliant because

[7:35] I had a wound in childhood that I was

[7:38] uh missed, and my parents couldn't

[7:40] really attune to me, or that I wasn't

[7:42] either it happened or I perceived that

[7:44] it happened and so my protective

[7:46] mechanism is to do it myself.

[7:49] And then I go on and grow a big company

[7:51] or I find a lot of success with that

[7:53] pattern, but it's actually hurting me

[7:55] and I end up attracting a partner that's

[7:57] opposite. And let's call this first

[8:00] partner type like partner A, the one

[8:02] that's self-reliant. Now, she's going to

[8:04] attract a partner that she's

[8:06] over-functioning, she's going to attract

[8:07] a partner that's under-functioning.

[8:09] Her wound is I'm going to be take care

[8:12] of myself so I don't rely on somebody

[8:14] else and get hurt. Now, she's going to

[8:16] attract somebody that is

[8:17] under-functioning because maybe he,

[8:19] let's say, as a child was criticized and

[8:22] so he doesn't take action because he

[8:24] doesn't want to feel the wound of

[8:25] inadequacy.

[8:26] But the more she takes on, the less he

[8:29] withdraws and it sort of uh

[8:32] it's confirms her belief that I can't

[8:34] rely on anyone. And then she thinks he's

[8:36] the problem, but really this was showing

[8:38] up before him, right? Before that

[8:40] partnership. And so

[8:43] her work is to let go and learn to trust

[8:47] more. His work would be to take action

[8:50] without thinking that that action means

[8:52] that he is inadequate even if he doesn't

[8:54] do it perfect. But if she if he doesn't

[8:57] do it perfect, she might be like,

[8:58] "You're doing it wrong." And then that

[9:00] he then gets criticized the way he was

[9:02] criticized as a child and then kind of

[9:04] turtles down and withdraws.

[9:06] And so it it it's that perfect puzzle

[9:08] piece. So first having the awareness of

[9:10] what are the patterns that I play out so

[9:12] that I'm not blaming my partner, but I'm

[9:14] I'm in

[9:16] on like the same team to see you trigger

[9:18] this in me, I trigger this in you. How

[9:20] do we create a system to support each

[9:22] other's healing?

[9:24] And you don't need to be in a

[9:25] relationship to do this work. Your

[9:27] partner may be emotionally unavailable,

[9:29] not interested, or you might be single

[9:33] and you can still do this work on your

[9:34] own, which is really helpful. But

[9:36] awareness is the first step. What are

[9:38] What are the patterns? Instead of

[9:39] focusing so much on the person, what's

[9:41] the pattern that's coming up for me so I

[9:42] can resolve it inside of me first cuz if

[9:45] I think that they need to change for me

[9:47] to be okay, I will be anxious. Or if I

[9:48] think life needs to be a certain way so

[9:51] that I'm okay, I will create a lot of

[9:53] anxiety rather than seeing it so that

[9:55] then I can start to meet those parts of

[9:57] me and resolve them because they were

[9:59] great strategies when I was younger, but

[10:01] they're actually creating the very thing

[10:04] that I don't want now. thing that I'm

[10:05] trying to avoid, I create. The more I

[10:08] take on, the more it confirms my belief

[10:10] that no one's there for me, and then I

[10:12] repeat that cycle unconsciously.

[10:15] >> I love this example and I think a lot of

[10:17] podcast listeners can relate to being

[10:19] that daughter that was parentified, that

[10:21] needed to be the mature one, that

[10:23] started over-functioning,

[10:25] and that's why she started a healing

[10:27] journey because she saw all the shadows

[10:29] in her family and she wanted to do

[10:30] better. And then,

[10:32] you know, maybe subconsciously attracted

[10:34] someone that needed healing and that

[10:37] kept her in this role of I need to be

[10:39] the healer and the fixer for everyone.

[10:41] And I know a lot of women listening to

[10:42] this podcast have gone through breakups,

[10:45] divorces, and are

[10:47] trying to to recreate a new dynamic, but

[10:50] I'll speak for myself and I know a lot

[10:52] of my friends are going through the same

[10:53] thing and this is just and and let's do

[10:56] your method on me.

[10:58] But I feel like

[11:00] it is hard for me to find a man that

[11:03] puts in

[11:05] even relatively equal amount of effort

[11:08] that I do.

[11:09] So for example, in like communication,

[11:12] someone who's consistent,

[11:14] wants to talk every day, in planning

[11:16] dates. And I feel like a lot of times

[11:18] I've experienced men show up like that

[11:20] at the very beginning and then very,

[11:22] very quickly drop off. And over time

[11:24] this creates this feeling of I can't

[11:26] trust that you're actually going to be

[11:28] this.

[11:30] And so So step one is even finding

[11:31] people to put on this mask and then step

[11:34] two is like, "Oh, it's it's a mask." And

[11:37] then

[11:38] it reaffirms the belief of, "Well, I

[11:40] guess it's just better to be single."

[11:42] >> Mhm. Yeah, and even being single is the

[11:44] perfect mirror to show you what the

[11:46] pattern is that's coming up. So in some

[11:48] ways I'm hearing not being met

[11:49] emotionally. Not Right? And so who did

[11:52] you not feel met by? Mom or dad?

[11:54] Whatever character

[11:57] >> [laughter]

[11:57] >> Okay. So then it's like By by By far

[12:00] more my dad.

[12:01] >> Yeah. So then that would be life

[12:04] presenting the perfect situation to

[12:06] bring up the wound so that you can heal

[12:08] it and live beyond it. And I don't want

[12:10] people to think that we are always

[12:12] healing our stuff. There's like a core

[12:13] foundational piece that we heal and

[12:16] you know, it life does get brighter and

[12:18] bigger and more open or we comb through

[12:20] them in a different area of our life,

[12:21] money, relationship, health, whatever it

[12:22] may be. But right now like we're looking

[12:24] at luck. So if you didn't feel attuned

[12:27] to as a child and your safety strategy

[12:31] was to be the competent one, to take

[12:33] care of yourself, to

[12:35] be the and it's actually supported you

[12:37] in being successful and having a lot of

[12:38] freedom, which I know you value, then

[12:41] that's beautiful. We don't want to get

[12:42] rid of that part of you, but we don't

[12:44] always want it to lead because sometimes

[12:46] when a partner does try to show up that

[12:49] one that's scared that you may get

[12:51] dropped or missed and not attuned to

[12:54] will find the slightest thing that he's

[12:56] not doing something perfect and then be

[12:58] like, "I'm out." Or I need to move on as

[13:00] a protection mechanism.

[13:02] And so part of the work then is to

[13:04] really meet that part of yourself.

[13:07] If you're in a relationship, you can do

[13:08] it together, but you can also do it

[13:10] individually where you get to learn

[13:12] about that part of you because the

[13:13] protection mechanism is the

[13:15] hypervigilant, you know, kind of

[13:16] parentified child, but it's protecting a

[13:19] wound and a vulnerability underneath.

[13:21] Are you clear on what the vulnerability

[13:24] is that it would be protecting? What do

[13:26] you know Like what are you afraid you

[13:27] would feel

[13:28] if you weren't on top of it all of the

[13:31] time?

[13:32] >> That I will get emotionally invested and

[13:34] heartbroken and it will take me years to

[13:37] recover again and I don't want to go

[13:39] back there.

[13:39] >> Yeah. Yeah, so beautiful that this

[13:43] protection mechanism has really tried to

[13:45] make sure that you're doing you're safe

[13:47] and that you don't have pain.

[13:50] And so sometimes when we know what to do

[13:52] but we're not doing it, it just means

[13:54] that we have an unconscious belief that

[13:56] action will lead to pain. Like if I'm in

[13:58] a relationship, I'll get hurt again. And

[14:00] so this one's going to get fierce. Like

[14:02] I'm going to protect you and it's going

[14:03] to be working hard and be really

[14:05] resilient so you never get missed again

[14:07] the way that you did when you were a

[14:08] child.

[14:10] So we're not trying to get rid of that

[14:12] but we're bringing first more awareness

[14:14] to it. So the first step in my

[14:15] methodology is awareness and then we

[14:17] move into the deeper work, right? And we

[14:18] can work it on different levels,

[14:20] somatically, emotionally, unconsciously.

[14:23] And so how just so that I can get caught

[14:25] up with you, how if even you're just

[14:27] tuning into your body,

[14:29] do you notice what's actually present

[14:31] here and now when you tune in?

[14:34] >> Well, I was I have done step one. So I'm

[14:38] excited for step two cuz I am aware that

[14:40] that is for sure the wound that has made

[14:42] me

[14:43] more like

[14:45] future projecting that if someone is

[14:49] inconsistent, they didn't message me for

[14:50] a day, I'm like, "Oh, that's who they

[14:52] are." And so let me end this now before

[14:55] I get further invested and I think in a

[14:57] way it's been helpful because I haven't

[15:00] gotten into toxic situationships with

[15:02] people who would not have met me but

[15:04] it's made me be single for quite a long

[15:06] time because I'm so quick to notice the

[15:09] red flags.

[15:10] >> Yeah. And that's not you, that's your

[15:13] protection pattern. So it's just a

[15:15] safety strategy that's vigilant to say,

[15:17] "Oh, he didn't text back. That wasn't

[15:19] soon enough." So she's fierce. Like I

[15:21] love her. I don't want her to go away.

[15:23] >> beer, too.

[15:24] >> Look at Look at her. I like her. Like,

[15:27] she gets to be celebrated and welcomed.

[15:29] >> you're not showing up. Goodbye."

[15:30] >> [laughter]

[15:31] >> And And she's probably exhausted. She's

[15:35] probably like, I cuz the thing that you

[15:37] avoid, you ironically create. So, if

[15:40] you're trying to avoid getting hurt, you

[15:42] end up getting hurt. And these are the

[15:44] same principles that apply with money

[15:45] and love. Same thing. I mean, it applies

[15:47] in all of life, but I like those two

[15:49] topics. So, so it's great you have

[15:51] awareness of it. Sometimes that's the

[15:52] hardest thing, and sometimes seeing it

[15:54] is freeing, but usually with love we

[15:56] want to go a little bit deeper. So, so

[15:58] she's fierce. I love her, and she we are

[16:00] we're not trying to get rid of her.

[16:01] We're just seeing her. And I really hear

[16:04] a deeper desire to be in connection, to

[16:07] feel met.

[16:09] And the way that I would invite you

[16:10] right now is can we start to get to know

[16:13] and meet her and attune to her

[16:15] emotionally while you're {quote} single?

[16:18] Right? So, that

[16:20] to kind of sell this to that part of

[16:22] you, it's like, as you tune into

[16:24] yourself,

[16:26] and you don't reject that part of you,

[16:28] then it won't hurt so much if somebody

[16:30] leaves because you know how to tune to

[16:32] yourself.

[16:34] Because there's your partner, whoever

[16:35] does come in, is going to learn how to

[16:38] attune to you cuz you're going to you're

[16:39] committed to doing the work to allow

[16:40] that to happen, which feels like a risk

[16:42] to that part of you. But the more you

[16:44] stay connected to her, even if there's

[16:46] an argument or an upset, the less it

[16:49] hurts because you've sourced that inside

[16:51] of you.

[16:53] Can you see that? So, sometimes when we

[16:54] get into a rupture with someone, it's

[16:57] not actually the rupture with them that

[16:58] hurts, it's our own self-betrayal. It's

[17:00] our own abandonment of ourself. That's

[17:03] what hurts more. And as we learn to

[17:05] attune to that part of ourselves, and

[17:08] really

[17:10] source and and be create safety for her,

[17:13] the less you will put up with any toxic

[17:15] pattern with somebody else, and not as a

[17:17] strategy, but just because it's out of

[17:19] alignment. It's like, why would I put up

[17:20] with anything less than I'm already

[17:22] offering myself?

[17:24] Okay?

[17:25] So, I'm just curious in your in your

[17:27] direct experience right now. So, we've

[17:29] got this part of you that's like, "Okay,

[17:31] he didn't text back. I'm out." Right?

[17:32] She's I love her. She's here. And I'm

[17:35] curious if you have any access. It might

[17:38] be that we play with her or there might

[17:40] be some access to the vulnerability of

[17:42] being missed underneath. As you kind of

[17:44] check in, see what see what's available

[17:47] right now.

[17:48] >> Yes, the vulnerable part is

[17:52] if this is what they're like now, what

[17:54] will they be like down the line when you

[17:56] have a grieving parent? You're grieving

[17:58] a parent if you're pregnant,

[18:01] when you really need that person.

[18:03] >> Mhm.

[18:04] >> And so,

[18:06] pay attention to how they are in the

[18:08] dating stage because this is them at

[18:10] their best and it's only going to get

[18:12] worse from here.

[18:13] >> Yeah. And this is still this is still a

[18:15] protective part. And she's so smart. Of

[18:18] course, like that makes a lot of sense.

[18:20] And so, we're not trying to get rid of

[18:21] her. But yeah, that's the protection

[18:22] part.

[18:24] >> [laughter]

[18:26] >> And so, and so if and so

[18:29] if if if you don't stay vigilant to make

[18:32] sure that he's really going to be able

[18:35] to attune to you, then you fear

[18:38] being heartbroken or you fear what's the

[18:41] feeling

[18:41] >> Being emotionally unmet

[18:44] and having an absent partner the way

[18:47] that I had an absent emotionally absent

[18:49] father.

[18:50] >> Yeah. Yeah. And so, if you just close

[18:52] your eyes

[18:52] >> emotionally.

[18:54] >> Yeah, like physically there but not

[18:55] really there. And so, if you just close

[18:57] your eyes and just feel into and

[18:59] something may or may not arise, but

[19:01] we're just going to see if there's an

[19:02] image or a felt sense of either a

[19:06] younger memory that comes forward when

[19:08] your dad wasn't there and she really

[19:09] needed his attunement or whatever

[19:13] arises, I trust it. But we're just

[19:14] tuning into that vulnerability

[19:16] underneath the defense just for you to

[19:18] be with it.

[19:20] And there's a little smile. What do you

[19:21] notice?

[19:22] >> So, I'm seeing my dad in my childhood

[19:26] living room.

[19:27] And it's me saying to myself,

[19:30] "You don't understand me."

[19:32] >> Mhm.

[19:33] >> Yeah.

[19:35] >> And what feelings arise right now when

[19:37] you go back to that image?

[19:40] >> I feel a sadness.

[19:42] And also like a protection against him

[19:45] of like get away from me.

[19:47] >> Yeah.

[19:48] Yeah, beautiful.

[19:50] >> And it's It's protecting that like

[19:52] sadness. Like I can feel like tears

[19:54] coming into my eyes of like

[19:56] Ugh, I'm so exhausted. You just will

[19:59] never get me.

[20:01] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[20:02] And so let's just be with that part of

[20:05] you.

[20:06] Cuz as I I feel missed, I'm sad.

[20:09] You're never going to get me.

[20:11] Will anybody ever meet me?

[20:14] And if you could be with her

[20:16] right now in the ways that she needed to

[20:18] be met

[20:21] back in that same original scene,

[20:24] what are the words that she needs to

[20:26] hear so that she feels

[20:31] attuned to?

[20:34] >> So, I saw myself doing ballet. Dance was

[20:38] always my safe place.

[20:41] And ballet is actually something I've

[20:43] recently come back into of a place where

[20:45] I'm so attuned to myself.

[20:47] >> Mhm.

[20:48] >> And in the practice of being with every

[20:50] single little part of my body and the

[20:53] connection there. And so,

[20:56] like I instantly see myself in like a

[20:58] pink leotard and tutu. And like this is

[21:00] my safe space that I have created for

[21:03] me.

[21:03] >> Yeah. Yeah. So, notice where you feel

[21:06] that in your body, that safety.

[21:09] And just breathe into that sense of

[21:11] safety, that space for you, that

[21:13] protected space.

[21:18] And allow it to be here.

[21:20] And feel that safety in your body while

[21:22] you go back to the original image with

[21:24] your dad while bringing that safety into

[21:27] that image.

[21:29] See if that's available.

[21:33] And notice what that scene is like as

[21:35] you return tuned to her without changing

[21:37] anything about your dad.

[21:44] >> I see my dad there and I'm wearing my

[21:47] ballet outfit, but we're not connecting.

[21:51] I'm just being me and he's being him.

[21:53] >> Okay. And I want to invite you not to

[21:56] identify with the little one with the

[21:57] ballet, but I want you to be a loving

[22:00] presence to be with her in the ways that

[22:03] she needed and he didn't know how.

[22:09] And see what happens when you feel that

[22:11] safety

[22:13] from the ballet

[22:16] and you're bringing it to her directly.

[22:23] See if that's available

[22:25] to breathe into and attune to her in the

[22:27] situation that she felt missed.

[22:30] >> Yeah, I feel like it is creating a bit

[22:32] of a force field around her that is

[22:34] protecting her from him.

[22:36] >> Uh-huh.

[22:37] Yeah, and see if there's anything she

[22:38] wants you to know.

[22:42] >> She's saying, "I don't like him."

[22:43] >> Ah, yeah.

[22:45] And what do you want to tell her?

[22:47] >> I know he's tough.

[22:49] >> Yeah.

[22:53] And she doesn't need to like him. She

[22:55] doesn't need to be any different in that

[22:57] moment.

[22:58] And just let her know that.

[23:00] And that you've got her and that you see

[23:02] her.

[23:04] And you're attuning to her now.

[23:09] And see if there's anything else that

[23:10] she wants you to know.

[23:16] >> I feel like she just wants to be in her

[23:18] girl world.

[23:20] >> Uh-huh. Does she want to take you

[23:21] somewhere?

[23:23] What does that girl world look like?

[23:26] >> It's pink, dancing,

[23:29] fairies,

[23:30] whimsical.

[23:32] >> Uh-huh.

[23:33] >> Like she's like, I don't even want to be

[23:35] in this house.

[23:36] >> Yeah. So, let her take you wherever she

[23:38] wants to take you.

[23:43] >> A playground.

[23:44] >> Uh-huh.

[23:46] Okay.

[23:47] Give her space to to dance, to express,

[23:50] to be her full authentic self.

[23:53] >> It's like she feels so much more relief

[23:55] to be herself when he's not around. And

[23:57] so, I'm wondering if it's that I can

[24:00] only be myself when I'm single, when

[24:02] there's a man around.

[24:03] >> That's a good insight. Yeah, I'm hearing

[24:05] that you actually can't be free in

[24:07] relationship. You okay? So, then So, let

[24:10] her be on the dance you So, I get that

[24:12] the the the playground feels freeing,

[24:15] and that's kind of an escapism. So,

[24:16] let's actually stay in that scene.

[24:19] And I want you to stay with your little

[24:21] one with her ballerina outfit on.

[24:24] You're with her. That same scene, your

[24:26] dad is still there. He's not changed.

[24:30] And just be in that scene.

[24:32] Tune to her.

[24:37] And just notice what happens when you

[24:39] start pouring into her in that scene.

[24:41] You really see her.

[24:43] You're not changing anything about him.

[24:46] >> Well, she feels very suppressed because

[24:49] she can't be loud, she can't dance, she

[24:51] can't

[24:52] create any kind of ruckus cuz he will

[24:54] yell at her.

[24:55] >> Yeah. Yeah, and let her know

[24:59] you as the adult, not not identified

[25:01] with her, let her know that in this

[25:03] moment you're going to protect her.

[25:06] That in this moment she gets to be fully

[25:09] expressed, authentic, free, wild,

[25:13] and herself.

[25:15] And that you'll have a conversation with

[25:17] him

[25:19] as the adult, not the little girl. She

[25:22] doesn't need to be different,

[25:25] but that you as the adult will have a

[25:28] conversation with him.

[25:31] >> Yeah, it's like I can't even be

[25:33] expressed if he's watching, if he's

[25:35] there, just his energy.

[25:37] >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

[25:40] Yeah. So, she What does she need?

[25:42] And where And without identifying with

[25:44] her, we're going to be with her, which

[25:46] is really important.

[25:48] Cuz otherwise, if we're identified, it's

[25:49] harder to shift it. So, we're just being

[25:52] with her, what she needs.

[25:55] >> She really wants to

[25:56] >> to go.

[25:57] >> Yeah, she really wants to go. Yeah, and

[25:59] I really support her

[26:02] in leaving if that's really true for

[26:04] her, and I also know that you've done

[26:06] that a lot. And I'm wondering if there

[26:09] might be an exploration to discover how

[26:12] you can be free in that scene.

[26:15] >> [laughter]

[26:16] >> Cuz she knows me so well, it's my

[26:17] traveling.

[26:19] >> She's like, "I'm off to another

[26:21] adventure."

[26:21] >> It's like genuinely she's like, "I

[26:23] cannot be myself. I'm just waiting for

[26:27] him to leave the room."

[26:28] >> Yeah. Yeah, and that made so much sense

[26:31] when you were a child. Mhm. That makes

[26:34] perfect sense. And that she learned that

[26:36] that leaving pattern to take care of you

[26:38] was so smart.

[26:40] And now, let's just discover what it's

[26:43] like to be free enough

[26:46] to express in that moment

[26:49] even with him there

[26:52] while your adult self is creating I saw

[26:54] the shift in your body.

[26:56] >> Well, no, I remembered something I did

[26:58] actually that

[26:59] >> Tell me.

[26:59] >> I went to their apartment and I

[27:00] performed my Indian dance for them.

[27:03] >> Okay, and

[27:04] >> was like me being my, you know, weird

[27:06] self.

[27:08] Mhm. I mean, he just was like, "Oh." and

[27:10] then kind of just kept doing his thing.

[27:12] It didn't It didn't bother him. It

[27:14] wasn't a big deal.

[27:15] >> Interesting. So, good. So, you have a

[27:17] reference point for you fully

[27:19] authentically expressing and it being

[27:22] safe, it not it being neutral.

[27:24] >> Mhm.

[27:25] >> Okay, good. So, we're starting to open

[27:27] the aperture of this scene of this

[27:29] misunderstanding.

[27:31] Let's see if there's another one.

[27:33] A one specific moment in your life

[27:36] where you may have thought you could not

[27:38] express yourself authentically

[27:41] and you did.

[27:43] >> Well, even telling him about my divorce

[27:46] and what happened.

[27:47] >> Mhm.

[27:49] >> And normally those aren't things I would

[27:51] share with him.

[27:53] And I did and

[27:54] he was sort of just in disbelief.

[27:57] But it was a big stride in me revealing

[28:01] the truth.

[28:02] >> Beautiful.

[28:04] Yeah, beautiful. Let's define one more.

[28:07] Where you're authentically being

[28:09] yourself

[28:11] and you there was acceptance, there was

[28:13] neutrality.

[28:17] >> Um we would go on a boat and that was

[28:21] always very fun and free and something

[28:23] we loved to do together.

[28:25] >> Mhm.

[28:27] And that was free for you and you felt

[28:29] free with him.

[28:30] >> We both were loving it. That was our

[28:33] shared interest.

[28:34] >> Okay, beautiful. Beautiful. So, we're

[28:36] now starting to wake up out of the

[28:37] paradigm of the mind of thinking that

[28:40] you need to get away to feel free.

[28:44] >> It's like my very feminine expression

[28:46] was not allowed. But if it was something

[28:49] that he felt comfortable with, it was.

[28:52] >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

[28:54] And I might even question that your

[28:56] feminine expression wasn't allowed.

[28:59] Because there may and we can do deeper

[29:01] work with that, but there's somehow this

[29:03] this pattern that was set up that to be

[29:06] free you needed to leave. You needed to

[29:09] be on your own.

[29:10] >> Yes.

[29:10] >> And so we're just starting with that one

[29:12] first, kind of opening the aperture of

[29:13] what else might have been true.

[29:15] >> In that scene, in a few different

[29:17] scenes.

[29:20] >> And so just letting your body feel, oh,

[29:22] there are some examples where I can be

[29:24] myself.

[29:26] Even if the mind's like, oh, but the but

[29:27] but we're just starting here and

[29:29] starting to feel.

[29:31] >> Well, it's interesting cuz it's a mirror

[29:33] of in relationship, I feel like I am

[29:35] such a feminine person that things I'm

[29:37] genuinely into are like very whimsical.

[29:40] And I can't connect to men on that and

[29:43] so I have to be this like other version

[29:44] of myself to connect to men, but it's

[29:46] not my favorite version of me.

[29:48] >> Yeah. Yeah, this is where it roots from,

[29:51] this experience. And there are going to

[29:53] be layers to this because mom dad stuff

[29:56] goes a little bit deeper than just one

[29:58] level. I'll I always teach five levels

[30:00] and so we're integrating mental,

[30:02] somatic, emotional.

[30:04] And so

[30:05] but we're just let's just see what

[30:07] happens. You're in that scene with your

[30:08] dad.

[30:10] And I'm just curious if we pressed mute

[30:13] on the conclusion that you can't be

[30:15] yourself

[30:17] or that he's not that you need him to

[30:19] attune to you.

[30:22] What is that experience like

[30:25] in that original moment?

[30:29] >> If if he's just not bothered by my

[30:31] expression but not attuned either.

[30:34] >> Mhm, that you don't have the belief that

[30:36] you need him to attune to you

[30:38] or that you you have to go away to be

[30:42] free?

[30:43] What is the experience like in that same

[30:46] scene in your mind?

[30:49] >> I'm envisioning myself in my ballet

[30:52] costume in the living room and I'm

[30:56] doing my thing and he's doing his. I'm

[30:59] not being allowed and dancing, but I'm

[31:02] still wearing the costume.

[31:05] >> Mhm.

[31:06] >> So, it's like a mutual

[31:08] cohabitation.

[31:10] >> Yeah.

[31:11] And [snorts] let's even take the same

[31:13] exact scene, whether you were wearing

[31:14] the ballet in that original moment,

[31:17] which I don't know if you were, but take

[31:19] the same scene

[31:21] and this is where we're going to press

[31:22] mute on the interpretation that you need

[31:25] him to be attuned to you.

[31:28] And this is where you started tuning to

[31:29] her.

[31:31] Not identified with the little him, but

[31:32] attuned to her.

[31:37] And what does that feel like? What do

[31:38] you notice?

[31:41] >> Well,

[31:43] I'm envisioning he's

[31:45] at the table opening up his um bills

[31:49] and I'm wearing my costume with my adult

[31:52] self and we're doing our own thing and

[31:54] he's there, but it still feels like

[31:59] it's rude to not be focused on him

[32:02] because in our family was very much like

[32:04] when my dad would get home,

[32:06] we would all need to attune to him.

[32:09] >> Mhm.

[32:10] >> He's home, turn off the TV, he's ready

[32:13] for dinner. Like we would kind of stop

[32:15] everything when he would come home and

[32:17] um until he was

[32:19] like done having dinner

[32:21] and watch whatever he want to watch and

[32:23] then would go to his office and then we

[32:25] can be ourselves again. So, it feels

[32:27] like

[32:27] >> Yeah.

[32:28] >> almost rude to not be like "Oh, Dad, how

[32:31] was your day?" Like especially in

[32:33] Persian culture, it's very patriarchal.

[32:35] >> Yes.

[32:36] >> And so, that's probably another layer of

[32:38] why you wouldn't unconsciously want to

[32:39] be in a relationship because it's

[32:41] another story that you lose your

[32:43] freedom.

[32:44] >> Yeah, that I have to when my dad comes

[32:46] home be attuned to him until he's kind

[32:49] of complete with being with his family

[32:50] and ready to go up to his office and

[32:52] then I could be myself again.

[32:53] >> Yeah, good these are such good insights

[32:56] because we then can these are

[32:57] breadcrumbs to finding your own freedom

[33:00] and self-expression in your life now and

[33:03] in the next partnership or any

[33:04] partnership you want to be in. So we're

[33:06] just highlighting so once the one that

[33:09] is that you're not attuned to is gone or

[33:11] that you need to leave to be free we

[33:12] highlight oh I need to stop everything

[33:15] I'm doing and attune to my dad.

[33:17] So if we just press mute on all of those

[33:19] misunderstandings they're important

[33:21] breadcrumbs which we will tend to

[33:25] one at a time at some point but just for

[33:27] right now if you just press mute on

[33:29] those assumptions

[33:33] what is that experience like

[33:35] in that moment?

[33:40] >> So he comes home I say hi but I'm not

[33:43] focused and attuned on him either it's

[33:44] just more of like in passing.

[33:47] >> Yeah, you are being you are being

[33:49] yourself in that moment authentically

[33:51] expressed

[33:53] without buying into the idea that you

[33:55] need to stop what you're doing or even

[33:56] say hello

[33:58] or that he should attune to you.

[34:00] >> Oh I get that's so rude.

[34:03] >> I That's okay. That's okay. Yeah, it's

[34:05] going against the ingrained conditioning

[34:07] but I just want you to feel in your body

[34:10] the reference point of being in that

[34:12] scene with a different option.

[34:16] Goes against what you were conditioned

[34:18] with.

[34:20] But what does it feel like in your body

[34:22] when we silence those assumptions those

[34:25] belief systems?

[34:32] >> Yeah, I'm trying to visualize like the

[34:34] full house. I'm like I don't know what

[34:35] we're American families like how did

[34:37] they do it?

[34:38] >> Yeah, and you don't have to go to

[34:40] therapy for that.

[34:41] >> those, it's I can't if I ignored him,

[34:45] my god, it would be like the end of my

[34:46] life.

[34:47] >> Yeah, but you're there's still a story

[34:48] in your mind that that there's a and I

[34:51] get the conditioning that you were

[34:52] raised with that this is how

[34:55] you need to be. And that you would get

[34:57] in trouble or this is rude. But it all I

[34:59] was inviting was for you to have a

[35:00] reference point not operating in that

[35:02] moment with those conclusions

[35:06] to feel in your body what another option

[35:08] is. What else might be available in

[35:11] here?

[35:12] >> Well, I feel like I'm seeing myself now

[35:14] in high school and as as I got older, I

[35:17] would not really try to attune to him

[35:19] and ask him questions. I kind of gave up

[35:20] on that and so I'm visualizing that

[35:22] version of myself that wouldn't like get

[35:25] up and be excited that dad's home and be

[35:28] the good girl and ask him questions and

[35:30] be engaging enough to get attention from

[35:33] him and at that point I was just like

[35:34] whatever and there was more distance

[35:37] between us, but I had let that good girl

[35:41] in me die a lot.

[35:44] >> Yeah. Yeah, there's like a rebellion

[35:46] against that. It's like I conformed and

[35:48] then rebelled against it.

[35:50] >> Well, the rebellion only came when I

[35:51] left.

[35:52] >> Yeah, because it was safer to.

[35:54] >> Yeah.

[35:55] >> Yeah. Yeah. And so all I want you to see

[35:57] as a template. So there's three there's

[35:59] different layers to work with that

[36:00] mentally. I just want you to see that

[36:03] same situation without the narrative in

[36:05] your mind, ironically there's more

[36:07] space. There's less I have to choose

[36:09] into this.

[36:10] Okay? And

[36:12] I there's that's one layer. Somatically,

[36:15] it's about actually feeling the part of

[36:18] you that wasn't attuned to, the one that

[36:21] felt sad.

[36:23] And that one, that's the work to really

[36:25] embrace the sadness so that you don't

[36:28] reject that part of you the way that you

[36:30] felt rejected by your dad or your mom.

[36:34] You're not you're not perpetuating that

[36:37] cycle.

[36:38] >> What is a tool to embrace the sadness?

[36:42] >> So, is there any percentage of sadness

[36:44] here now?

[36:47] >> Mhm, I can I can connect to it. I mean,

[36:49] I'm remembering when I was working with

[36:52] the medicine, that was a lot of what

[36:54] came up just this like uh like my dad's

[36:58] who doesn't and crying for so long and

[36:59] so I know that that was a huge part of

[37:01] myself, but it's not something I really

[37:03] connect to in my

[37:05] waking day sober. Yeah.

[37:06] >> Yeah. Yeah. It's like the way I would

[37:09] then give you or people in

[37:12] a tool, think of sadness like a little

[37:15] kid.

[37:16] It's just looking It's like pulling at

[37:18] your pant leg. It's just looking for

[37:20] your presence. It's not trying to be

[37:22] {quote} healed or fixed. It's just

[37:24] looking to be met.

[37:26] And so the more you real freedom

[37:29] >> crying?

[37:31] >> Uh I feel that you need to allow the

[37:34] emotion.

[37:35] So, with emotions, people either indulge

[37:38] or avoid rather than allow.

[37:40] And if you can allow them to move

[37:42] through your nervous system, just fully

[37:44] come up and out, it doesn't even take

[37:46] very long. It's under 2 minutes and it

[37:48] moves on.

[37:49] But that's not why you do it. You just

[37:51] meet the moment. And so think of the

[37:54] sadness like a little kid that just is

[37:56] looking to be like, "Okay, honey, I see

[37:58] you." It's just being It's just meeting

[38:00] it.

[38:01] And it it it just So, it's like

[38:03] when you meet it, because real freedom

[38:06] is freedom to feeling it, not freedom

[38:08] away from it, not escapism.

[38:11] So, when you meet the moment, you meet

[38:13] the sadness, you start to cultivate more

[38:16] attunement to yourself.

[38:18] And then when you don't feel attuned to

[38:19] by a partner or the part of you, Sahara,

[38:21] that's like, I he didn't text me back.

[38:25] And it's like, that part that's getting

[38:27] the the manager, this protection is just

[38:29] trying to make sure you don't feel the

[38:31] sadness or loss of attunement. When you

[38:33] thank that protection pattern,

[38:36] and you embrace the sadness,

[38:39] you don't need to let them go, or you

[38:41] don't need to try to manage the partner

[38:43] because you feel more sourced and secure

[38:46] inside of yourself. You feel more safe

[38:48] in that moment. You're less looking

[38:49] through the lens of your little one that

[38:51] didn't have the attunement that you

[38:53] needed then, because you're offering her

[38:55] that attunement now.

[38:57] >> How do you know when that protector part

[38:59] is helping you make a better decision?

[39:01] Like, she actually is really looking out

[39:04] for ways someone might not later on be

[39:07] attuned to her, versus

[39:10] just trusting that it will work out, and

[39:12] it's her pay if they didn't message you,

[39:14] and you know.

[39:15] >> Mhm.

[39:15] >> Yeah. So,

[39:17] when you're doing it from an avoidance

[39:20] strategy, it actually creates more of

[39:22] what you're trying to avoid. So, you can

[39:23] tell where it comes from. This is

[39:25] discernment. You can tell where it comes

[39:27] from. If it's coming from, I'm trying to

[39:30] avoid feeling something, so I'm

[39:31] managing, and there's an anxiety with

[39:33] it, that's when to slow down and meet

[39:35] yourself.

[39:36] And if there's a

[39:39] if there's a deeper knowing, like, this

[39:40] isn't my person, or this isn't how I

[39:42] want to be in relationship, there's less

[39:44] of a trigger, it's just more of like,

[39:46] no, thank you, that's a really good

[39:48] sign.

[39:49] >> I'm going to give you an exact example

[39:50] that fits that.

[39:52] >> Okay.

[39:52] >> Okay.

[39:53] So, I went on two dates with someone,

[39:55] and it went very well.

[39:57] And he went to another country, I'll

[40:01] just call it

[40:02] England, um, for a month, for his work,

[40:06] and he's like in between jobs, so he's

[40:08] gone.

[40:10] And we said, we'll stay in touch.

[40:13] Which to me meant talking every day. We

[40:15] both expressed that we would like to see

[40:16] each other more when he got back. Um

[40:20] and he and he was like responsive

[40:22] talking to me. Then when he got to that

[40:24] country, I didn't hear from him for like

[40:26] 2 3 days.

[40:27] So in my mind, I'm like, this is over.

[40:30] You know, like this is not going

[40:32] anywhere. He doesn't care. Then for a

[40:33] couple days, he's messaging me every

[40:35] day. Then for 2 days, he's not messaging

[40:37] me. And I'm like, I can't take this.

[40:40] This is fun. I went through a full

[40:42] breakup in my mind and now I've decided

[40:44] I'm not going to message him back for 2

[40:46] days.

[40:46] >> [laughter]

[40:48] >> Because and it's funny because the old

[40:51] me would have been the child that the

[40:53] moment he responded to me would have

[40:55] been Hi Dad, are you ready? Oh my god,

[40:58] let's FaceTime. I have your attention

[40:59] now.

[41:00] >> Yeah.

[41:01] >> And I'm no and so now it's almost like

[41:03] my like high school girl that's like

[41:05] >> Oh, rebellious.

[41:06] >> took 2 days, I'll take 2 days.

[41:08] >> Mhm.

[41:08] >> And

[41:10] >> Great awareness, Sahara. This is great.

[41:12] >> Yeah. Then there's this other part

[41:14] that's like, okay, he's not it. Just

[41:16] keep it moving. Like if that's how he

[41:18] communicates, just observe people. You

[41:20] don't want to change it. Then there's

[41:21] this other lover girl part that's like,

[41:23] but you really like him and maybe he has

[41:25] been working out.

[41:26] >> [laughter]

[41:28] >> And all of them are are protection

[41:29] mechanisms. So if you work on the level

[41:32] of games and protection, you'll have

[41:35] more of that play out in your

[41:36] relationships. And so not bad, but just

[41:39] as like, okay, so you get to see the

[41:41] full house and you get to see the

[41:43] different characters and love on them

[41:45] and appreciate them.

[41:47] When you do some of the deeper work, go

[41:50] under the surface to be like celebrate

[41:53] all of the characters, the lover, the

[41:55] child, the rebellious one. They're all

[41:57] beautiful crayons in this coloring box

[42:00] that we get to play with.

[42:02] And there's less of a need to protect

[42:05] yourself when you're sourcing the wound

[42:07] underneath, when you're creating safety

[42:10] for the younger one, you can work it

[42:12] somatically, so feel the sensation

[42:13] you've avoided, question the stories

[42:16] that are creating the patterns that you

[42:17] think that you're living out of, like, I

[42:19] can only be free when I'm single or when

[42:21] I'm away. Those are That's how I would

[42:24] do mentally questioning those stories.

[42:26] Um feeling that vulnerability though,

[42:28] meeting it like a child, being with it

[42:30] will then soften the

[42:34] the fear and less of the protection

[42:36] patterns are needed. Less of those

[42:38] characters are needed to manage. Does

[42:40] this make sense?

[42:42] And then you naturally show up to say

[42:44] whatever your truth is. You don't even

[42:46] need You know, a lot of people with

[42:47] dating they people are giving others

[42:48] scripts. And I'm like, this is just

[42:50] surface level. Like, this is not getting

[42:53] to the root. And ironically, when you

[42:54] really

[42:56] create safety for the part of you that

[42:57] wasn't attuned or that felt grief or

[43:00] sadness or thought that she needed to be

[43:02] single to be free or that she needs to

[43:04] be on hyper-vigilant alert so she never

[43:07] gets hurt again.

[43:09] And you really feel that pain underneath

[43:11] it, you don't need those protection

[43:14] patterns so much. They're not wrong,

[43:16] they get to be here and they're they

[43:17] have wisdom inside of them, but they're

[43:19] not the ones making decisions for your

[43:21] for your relationships. They're not

[43:23] trying to control and manage. That's why

[43:25] the anxiety comes.

[43:27] The anxiety is because you can't control

[43:29] another. You can't control somebody

[43:31] else, so it's like, how do I be with

[43:32] this inside of me as a sensation,

[43:35] as a feeling.

[43:37] And then you play and then you get to

[43:38] express the lover and the warrior

[43:40] bellious one, but it's it's part of like

[43:42] what's being required or asked for in

[43:44] the moment rather than judging it and

[43:47] only living out of those particular

[43:50] defense mechanisms.

[43:52] >> So, what practices do you teach in your

[43:54] institute that once the client has

[43:57] gained awareness of like, okay, these

[43:58] are the different parts of me. Now, how

[44:00] do they decide how to listen to all the

[44:03] voices to take action?

[44:04] >> Yeah. So, the the biggest thing is

[44:07] first, just becoming aware. Most people

[44:10] are at that, and I actually think AI is

[44:12] great for pattern recognition, just

[44:13] doing the work, self-awareness. All of

[44:15] that is super helpful. But, the deeper

[44:17] work is acceptance, and accepting it

[44:19] mentally, emotionally, behaviorally,

[44:22] unconsciously, and somatically. So, five

[44:25] levels of acceptance. When we're talking

[44:28] about core wounds, like we are right

[44:29] now, and whether that's relationships or

[44:31] money or whatever the the thing is, you

[44:34] need to comb through different levels.

[44:36] It's not like you have an insight, you

[44:38] accept it, and then it shifts. It's you

[44:41] unpack it over uh going deeper, working

[44:44] through the five. And then, ironically,

[44:47] your action becomes more aligned. It's

[44:49] not about even choosing the right

[44:51] person, for example, with this. The

[44:53] action, it's just like

[44:55] you know because you're tuned to your

[44:57] inner knowing, and this the fears and

[44:59] the anxiety aren't clouding and blocking

[45:01] your knowing, so you just take the next

[45:03] most intelligent step. And it reveals to

[45:06] you moment to moment, rather than

[45:07] thinking, "Is this the right one for me?

[45:09] Or how do I know I'm compatible with

[45:11] them?" You know inside of yourself

[45:13] because your protection mechanisms

[45:16] aren't clouding you, trying to make sure

[45:18] you never experience pain again.

[45:22] >> Yeah, and I think that's the thing. I

[45:24] don't think he this person is my life

[45:25] partner.

[45:26] >> Yeah, and if that's what you want right

[45:28] now,

[45:29] then

[45:30] >> And I think that's what's a lot of women

[45:31] and myself are struggling with, of like

[45:33] we want to love,

[45:36] and we have so much love in us, and then

[45:38] when we get the opportunity to practice

[45:40] love in the inner of someone, it's like

[45:42] I love this version of myself that I am.

[45:45] Like I love the this the soft lover girl

[45:47] version of myself that I like never

[45:49] quite get to be in that way when there

[45:52] is like a man present. I can do my

[45:54] ballet and my flowers that we did the

[45:56] other day, but it's just different,

[45:57] right? And action.

[46:00] And I'm like, "Ugh, like I love her, but

[46:04] it feels like it requires someone else

[46:06] to be her.

[46:07] >> And I would question that.

[46:10] Because you get to express that love,

[46:12] because nobody ever gives you love. They

[46:14] just evoke the love that is already

[46:16] inside of you. They evoke these

[46:17] different 31 flavors of your goodness

[46:20] out of you. Instead of thinking that

[46:22] they gave me love and then they can take

[46:24] it away, that creates a lot of anxiety.

[46:26] That puts a lot of pressure on a

[46:28] relationship to think it needs to be

[46:29] something to fill me that I don't

[46:31] already have. And so when we learn to

[46:33] source, to really come home to ourselves

[46:36] on all levels, mentally, emotionally,

[46:38] physically, spiritually, we're in

[46:40] connection with ourselves, we're not

[46:42] abandoning ourselves,

[46:44] then we can allow people to come and go,

[46:46] but we're not attached thinking they're

[46:47] going to make me better or life will be

[46:49] better or I will feel more um

[46:52] cuz whole you know, and seen. We can see

[46:55] those parts of ourselves. And we

[46:57] actually can do it in sisterhood. We can

[46:59] do it in friendship. We can do it with

[47:02] anyone who's really available, because

[47:04] one of the gifts is really seeing

[47:06] someone and doing that even in I

[47:08] remember when I was dating myself for 9

[47:10] months, my best friend and I were were

[47:12] living together and we're like, we want

[47:13] conscious relationship, but we don't

[47:15] have anyone. Let's practice on each

[47:16] other. And so we would practice whatever

[47:18] trigger we had with each other. We were

[47:19] like, okay, that's mine. What's what's

[47:21] inside of me that's looking to be

[47:23] resolved? And then we would also

[47:24] practice conscious communication. And so

[47:28] anything that you feel with somebody

[47:30] else is yours. They have evoked inside

[47:33] of you and you can express the lover and

[47:36] the and these different aspects within

[47:38] you regardless of where you are or who

[47:41] you're with. And yes, it's beautiful to

[47:43] feel really met and seen, but

[47:46] we have to start with ourselves.

[47:48] And the deeper we can offer that, the

[47:50] more we give other people permission to

[47:52] be exactly as they are and then we just

[47:54] attune. It's not like

[47:56] there we don't need judgment to let

[47:57] somebody go. We just naturally gravitate

[48:00] towards people that can either meet us

[48:02] or elevate us.

[48:05] >> What are your thoughts for women who are

[48:08] like, I'm not finding the one who I feel

[48:11] is my life partner and I want that. But

[48:13] I'm meeting someone who's meeting me in

[48:15] these certain ways. Do you feel it is

[48:18] helpful to have lovers temporarily or it

[48:21] is distracting us from what we really

[48:23] want? So,

[48:27] >> I when I met my husband 17 years ago, I

[48:30] was like, this is the only man I was

[48:32] like, this is a for now thing. I told

[48:34] him for the only person I was like,

[48:36] don't get your hopes up. Like this is

[48:38] just for now.

[48:39] 17 years later, it's still now.

[48:41] And there's this analogy. So, actually,

[48:44] let me share this first.

[48:46] The stronger the attraction, the deeper

[48:48] the wound.

[48:50] If you're if you're like, oh my god,

[48:53] them, yes. That's usually a signal that

[48:57] there's some deeper wounding. Okay?

[48:58] There's projection. There's like, you

[49:00] fulfill me and you know. So, there

[49:02] that's not bad cuz you can't tell

[49:03] yourself not to follow that. You will

[49:05] follow that.

[49:05] >> you mean by that like attraction, sexual

[49:07] attraction or oh my gosh, this is my

[49:10] dream person? Cuz I think those are two

[49:12] different feelings.

[49:12] >> Um I mean more this is my dream person.

[49:16] >> Okay.

[49:16] >> But it can include sexual attraction for

[49:18] sure. If you're just a sexually

[49:19] attracted but you're not fantasizing

[49:21] about like

[49:22] >> a future with him after. Yeah. Yeah.

[49:25] >> So, what when you're like, that person,

[49:28] that's usually your person to help show

[49:30] you your childhood wounds because they

[49:31] are the perfect puzzle piece to bring

[49:33] that up. Now, if the I were single and

[49:36] this is what I did, I proactively looked

[49:38] at the wounds that were coming up for me

[49:41] in my life so I could resolve it. For me

[49:43] it was with my mom. Usually it's mom or

[49:44] dad. Obviously there's a little bit of

[49:46] both, but my most of my stuff was with

[49:48] my mom. As I resolved it inside of me, I

[49:51] was with this beautiful man whom I

[49:55] ended up just didn't make sense

[49:57] consciously in my mind, but I moved on

[49:59] from and I I left the relationship that

[50:01] I thought I was going to get married to

[50:03] this man after 3 years. Made no sense to

[50:05] my mind and later on in hindsight I

[50:08] looked back and was like, oh, this makes

[50:09] sense because I resolved my wounds with

[50:11] my mom directly inside of me, not even

[50:13] playing it out with my mom. I no longer

[50:15] needed to project it or live it with

[50:17] him. So, he was no longer a match for

[50:20] me. We weren't puzzle pieces anymore.

[50:22] And so, when I met my husband, I didn't

[50:24] recognize him because he wasn't a

[50:26] template of my past. I'd done so much

[50:28] self-work that I didn't

[50:30] I didn't call in a person that was my

[50:33] template. So, that's why I didn't

[50:34] recognize him.

[50:35] So, there if you're also you see

[50:37] somebody and you're repulsed by them,

[50:39] there's also a lot of trigger work.

[50:41] There's a lot of projection and some

[50:43] other stuff to work through. So, I

[50:45] typically will use everyone as a mirror

[50:47] to help teach me how I can love myself

[50:50] or come into acceptance with different

[50:52] aspects of myself using them as a

[50:53] mirror. And the way that I think about

[50:55] it is everyone is the one.

[50:58] Everyone is

[50:59] my soulmate teaching me how to evolve my

[51:01] soul and then there's no like special

[51:03] egoic one.

[51:05] But that person that usually it's

[51:06] neutral

[51:08] and then you don't put all your

[51:09] projection onto,

[51:12] it ends up letting when you give the

[51:14] relationships space to breathe and you

[51:16] can only authentically do that when

[51:18] you're doing your own self-work,

[51:20] that relationship blossoms.

[51:23] And it will show you what it's meant to

[51:25] be. I know that I was clear with Emilio

[51:28] that this was the quality of

[51:30] relationship that I was whatever my

[51:32] vision was was like, this is the

[51:33] relationship I'm going to be in and I

[51:37] lived it myself. I wasn't outsourcing it

[51:39] to him and it called him forward into

[51:42] the man that he is today, but I didn't

[51:44] need it from him. I wasn't trying to fit

[51:46] him to, you know, I wasn't in

[51:48] relationship with his potential, but it

[51:50] evolved and called him forward to

[51:53] to rise within himself and meet me in

[51:55] that, but I didn't need it, if that

[51:57] makes sense. But, I did feel safe

[51:59] emotionally. I did feel seen, and I was

[52:02] doing the work to do it within myself

[52:04] first, so that it wasn't

[52:07] asking from my head and from my

[52:09] protection mechanisms,

[52:12] is he the right one? It was like, the

[52:13] way that I was looking at it was was

[52:15] everyone was the one. And even if I was

[52:17] with somebody quote-unquote wrong, I was

[52:19] going to use whatever trigger in that

[52:21] relationship, so I didn't have to

[52:22] project that trigger into my next

[52:24] relationship.

[52:26] So, that I could just like, even with my

[52:28] best friend when we were doing the work,

[52:29] it was like, oh great, let me resolve

[52:31] this inside of me, so I don't have to

[52:32] play it out with my partner.

[52:34] I was like, that's a to me, that's a

[52:36] proactive way to do the work, to love

[52:38] more freely and more openly.

[52:41] >> I love that, and I feel so many of us,

[52:43] and myself included, have subconsciously

[52:45] felt this, of like, I need this time to

[52:47] do this deep inner work within myself

[52:49] for long periods of time, and I think

[52:51] our society tells us, if you're not in a

[52:53] relationship, something's wrong. But,

[52:55] instead, you could have just gone from

[52:57] another triggering relationship to

[52:59] another, to another, and I feel like in

[53:00] these years, I've quantum leaped in just

[53:03] how quickly I can have this awareness of

[53:04] like, oh, just from this one session,

[53:07] I'm able to see that little girl in me,

[53:08] the teenage girl in me, these different

[53:10] parts of me that now I'm even more aware

[53:13] of, that I don't need to manifest some

[53:15] guy to play out. And now that brings me

[53:17] to a whole other level of relating. So,

[53:19] this is why coaching is so powerful for

[53:22] people, because it allows us to really

[53:24] like, within an hour,

[53:27] shapeshift and prevent a one-year, you

[53:30] know, toxic dynamic from happening. So,

[53:32] >> And you could do it you could do it in

[53:34] relationship, and you could do it

[53:35] single. That's the beauty of it. Like,

[53:38] the life life is the coach. Life is

[53:40] showing you what's next. Am I supposed

[53:42] to be single? Yes, perfect. Let me use

[53:44] it, the triggers. Am I supposed to be

[53:46] triggered in relationship? Yes, let me

[53:48] use that.

[53:49] >> Exactly. And it's whatever is happening

[53:50] is what is supposed to be. And trusting

[53:52] that, you know, I think so so often

[53:54] coming back to acceptance is like I want

[53:56] to be in this other stage of life that I

[53:58] can't be in, you know? And that feeling

[54:01] is so overwhelming cuz there's just

[54:03] nothing you can do, you know? It's like

[54:05] all you can do is fully meet yourself in

[54:06] this moment. And if you're in this

[54:09] moment, there's deeper depths for you to

[54:11] go into.

[54:12] >> Yeah, and that's really what we what we

[54:14] really want a partner for. We want a

[54:16] partner so that we feel

[54:18] safe or seen or chosen or whatever that

[54:20] is. And we can offer that to ourselves

[54:22] or even question that it's not here

[54:24] before I go looking for it. Can I

[54:25] absolutely know that the love I'm

[54:27] looking for isn't already here before I

[54:29] go looking for it? And then from

[54:31] wholeness, from abundance, from

[54:33] the truth of your being, you you show up

[54:36] in the world and you're not grasping for

[54:38] it from somebody else. And to me, that's

[54:41] real freedom.

[54:42] >> Yes, and as you said that, I just right

[54:45] now remembered how the first year that I

[54:47] was single, I I remember telling myself,

[54:49] I need to remain single for 1 year. And

[54:52] when I first met someone that I was like

[54:54] somewhat interested in like a year

[54:55] later,

[54:57] I muted my Instagram stories from him

[54:59] because I didn't want him to see what I

[55:02] talk about on my podcast. And so already

[55:04] it was this like love expression, they

[55:08] can't go together, you know? And then

[55:10] that ended up being nothing. And this

[55:13] feeling of I need to be so anchored in

[55:16] my expression that someone's questioning

[55:19] of it is not going to make me abandon

[55:22] ship at the quest of love. And it took

[55:26] this amount of like even writing my

[55:28] book,

[55:29] there were so many times I'm like, oh my

[55:31] god, like a guy is going to read all my

[55:33] trauma and [ __ ] in this book. Like this

[55:36] is horrible. Why am I doing this to

[55:37] myself? And now to the point that it's

[55:39] like printed, there's nothing to do.

[55:41] It's like, of course, whoever I'm with

[55:43] can only meet this version of me and

[55:44] there's no going backwards.

[55:45] >> And this is part of your healing is like

[55:47] you being fully authentically expressed

[55:50] and knowing that freedom and love go

[55:52] together.

[55:53] And that starts with questioning the

[55:55] narrative that your little one

[55:57] concluded and it starts with meeting

[56:00] yourself and creating safety that you

[56:02] get to be free and in partnership if you

[56:04] want.

[56:05] And so I love your awareness. I love how

[56:08] authentically expressed you are. You are

[56:10] like one of the most authentically

[56:11] expressed humans that I know, so I know

[56:13] how important that is to you and you get

[56:14] to be met in relationship and you can

[56:17] start with your sisters and you can let

[56:19] you know, and then what is when the

[56:21] parts start to get scared, you just

[56:23] like, oh, thank you and you can name

[56:24] them. You can be like,

[56:26] honoring the ways that they've they've

[56:28] made sure that you were safe along the

[56:30] way and then test and risk seeing if

[56:33] something else is available and

[56:34] different.

[56:36] >> I love this. So,

[56:37] how can people create a living for

[56:39] themselves sharing this and the so so

[56:42] many different tools that you offer to

[56:44] others cuz I know so many people they

[56:45] love this method that you just shared

[56:47] with me. They got to meet a different

[56:48] side of myself on this podcast that you

[56:50] just dropped me into. How can people do

[56:52] this as a living?

[56:54] >> Yeah, this is one of the things that is

[56:56] my favorite way to serve in the world is

[56:59] to support healers, coaches, therapists

[57:02] in doing their own self-work to embody

[57:04] that and then to make a good living

[57:06] making a contribution to the world

[57:08] feeling really aligned and on purpose.

[57:11] And so I run an institute. I run a

[57:13] school coaching school where

[57:15] um we certify and train coaches of all

[57:18] different niches, whether you're new or

[57:20] experienced and we're looking at having

[57:22] the second year become a master's

[57:24] program. Um but I'm actually going to do

[57:27] a live five-day free challenge on

[57:29] Instagram October 26th through the 30th

[57:32] to give people tools to overcome

[57:35] you know, and it's like heal the

[57:36] relationship with money, overcome the

[57:37] fear of being seen, we'll do relational

[57:40] dynamics, boundaries,

[57:42] um how do you create clients and how do

[57:45] you let yourself really receive

[57:47] and do the work in business in a way

[57:50] that feels totally aligned where you

[57:51] never have to use social media. So, it's

[57:53] like a five-day free challenge that I'm

[57:55] going to put out into the world October

[57:56] 26th through the 30th

[57:58] and let people have tools, have

[58:01] perspectives, and really use these five

[58:03] days as an immersion to do the work on

[58:05] themselves, and then start to get a

[58:06] taste for how can I share and live

[58:08] anywhere in the world being of service.

[58:12] >> I love this so much. I'm so Your

[58:13] challenges are phenomenal. You know, I

[58:16] remember cuz we've been friends for 10

[58:18] years.

[58:18] >> You were the one that told me I should

[58:20] do challenges, literally, and that

[58:22] changed my

[58:23] >> I think also I was telling you to do a

[58:24] coaching institute.

[58:25] >> You probably did. You probably did.

[58:27] Yeah. And I've had This is like This is

[58:29] our seventh year doing it and the

[58:31] challenges and the program and I just

[58:33] It's my It's It's my love. It's my

[58:36] heart. It's like the way that I give

[58:37] back in the world.

[58:39] >> Well, you are so in your dharma. I'm so

[58:40] excited to be partnering up with you and

[58:42] giving people a thousand dollars off who

[58:45] do your training as well. So, can you

[58:47] tell us more about what your Institute

[58:49] for Mastery looks like?

[58:51] >> Yeah, so this program Our program This

[58:53] is the early bird um that your audience

[58:55] has a thousand dollars off if they apply

[58:57] before November 2nd. And And the

[59:01] Institute is really designed around

[59:03] three things. You need three three three

[59:05] things to

[59:06] thrive in this career, whether you're a

[59:08] coach, therapist, healer, service

[59:10] professional, you need to embody your

[59:12] own work. Like that doesn't end. There's

[59:14] deeper levels of knowing. So, when

[59:16] you're in integrity to live it, you

[59:18] shine, you radiate, your life gets

[59:20] better, you feel more confident to serve

[59:21] others. So, first thing is you're doing

[59:23] your work. Second is confidently and

[59:25] masterfully serving others that it's

[59:27] trauma-informed. So, how do you work on

[59:29] the five levels? Some people need fire,

[59:32] some people need water. Some people are

[59:34] really great at mindset and somatic work

[59:36] is still new, but somatic work is good

[59:38] for some people, not everyone. And so,

[59:40] really understanding how to develop your

[59:41] range. And then thirdly, how do you

[59:43] start or scale a business? Nobody taught

[59:45] me this when I had two master's degrees

[59:47] in in psychology and became a somatic

[59:51] psychotherapist. Nobody taught me

[59:52] business. I didn't know I was an

[59:53] entrepreneur. So, I teach how do you do

[59:55] personal development work mixed with

[59:58] business. So, it's like, oh, I don't put

[1:00:00] myself out there, I put my services out

[1:00:02] there. Like, who I am is separate than

[1:00:04] what I do. So, we do

[1:00:05] a lot of personal development work with

[1:00:07] business so that people

[1:00:09] can really thrive in a way that feels

[1:00:10] easy and more aligned rather than trying

[1:00:13] to do this bro marketing or push through

[1:00:15] their blocks. It's about getting out of

[1:00:17] our own way a bit more graceful.

[1:00:19] >> I love this and what I adore about the

[1:00:21] method that you teach is people don't

[1:00:23] need to be on social media to get

[1:00:25] clients.

[1:00:25] >> That's right. And I think this is so

[1:00:27] refreshing cuz so many people listening,

[1:00:30] >> you know, they don't want to do the

[1:00:31] Instagram thing, they don't want to

[1:00:33] necessarily start a podcast, but they

[1:00:35] meet people all the time that they could

[1:00:38] that could be their clients.

[1:00:39] >> Yes.

[1:00:40] >> So, how do you teach people to build a

[1:00:41] business offline?

[1:00:43] >> Yeah. So, and I also teach somatic

[1:00:45] sales. So, it's like people also feel

[1:00:47] gross about selling. And when I say when

[1:00:49] I'm like, oh, you're gross, that feels

[1:00:51] gross because you're focused on you and

[1:00:52] what you can get rather than what you

[1:00:54] can give. So, when you're focused on

[1:00:55] what you can give and you have a

[1:00:56] powerful sales framework, you can be out

[1:00:59] in the world. So, some people were all

[1:01:01] designed differently and I don't believe

[1:01:02] in a one-size-fits-all business model.

[1:01:04] So, some people are just out in the

[1:01:06] world and they're magnetic. Like, they

[1:01:08] attract clients. And so, I'll teach them

[1:01:10] how to both attract, but also create

[1:01:12] because sometimes they'll have clients

[1:01:14] and then other months they won't. So,

[1:01:15] they need to know some of the devil in

[1:01:17] down on what's working in metrics, but

[1:01:19] we can do a little a little of a dance.

[1:01:21] There's this physicist I love. He says,

[1:01:23] "It's not just do do do. It's not just

[1:01:24] be be be. It's do be do be do be do."

[1:01:26] Like that's where you get the dance. And

[1:01:28] so, we integrate. Other people really

[1:01:30] love and they

[1:01:32] There's a lot of coaches who are either

[1:01:34] successful and they want to go to high

[1:01:35] ticket, so they do my program.

[1:01:38] Um

[1:01:38] and you need less clients. So,

[1:01:41] or you choose to work with less clients,

[1:01:42] but in a more high touch way. Some

[1:01:44] people just want to I one thing that

[1:01:48] I'll do for new coaches is do gifted

[1:01:50] sessions. So, I'm going to go through in

[1:01:52] this live 5-day

[1:01:54] challenge different ways that they can

[1:01:55] create clients for free. But, gifted

[1:01:57] sessions are where you're sharing with

[1:01:59] somebody the value of your work. I have

[1:02:01] a seven-step framework where you do a

[1:02:04] session in these seven steps and it

[1:02:06] communicates the value, not a concept.

[1:02:09] And that's how I ended up scaling my

[1:02:11] coaching company very quickly.

[1:02:14] I ended up profiting 100,000 in 2 weeks

[1:02:16] and 300,000 in a year. And I teach

[1:02:18] exactly how to do that in the

[1:02:20] certification program. Without I didn't

[1:02:22] So, I didn't even have a website that

[1:02:24] was picked up by Google. Like I had a

[1:02:25] landing page that had like spa music. I

[1:02:28] didn't have any social media following.

[1:02:30] I didn't do any of those things. And I

[1:02:33] found a way that feels incredibly

[1:02:36] aligned with my values of just

[1:02:37] contribution and doing it in a way that

[1:02:39] was easy. So, I'll go through that in

[1:02:42] the challenge, but gifted sessions, you

[1:02:44] can set up referral programs. You can

[1:02:46] tap into other people's audiences and

[1:02:49] provide value and create all the clients

[1:02:51] you want. Some people do corporate

[1:02:53] coaching. So, there's lots of variety.

[1:02:55] It just depends on what brings you

[1:02:56] aliveness and do that.

[1:02:59] >> I love that because so many companies

[1:03:01] have huge budgets for corporate

[1:03:03] wellness. It's actually a requirement

[1:03:05] for many companies and they don't even

[1:03:06] know who to hire. Like I see them doing

[1:03:09] like go-kart racing for their team.

[1:03:11] They're like, "Oh, I guess that's not

[1:03:13] corporate wellness at all, but it could

[1:03:15] be fun."

[1:03:16] But

[1:03:16] >> can get on the list of that company and

[1:03:18] have the company pay you or you could go

[1:03:20] in and do a workshop. A lot of my

[1:03:21] coaches will do workshops with

[1:03:23] organizations, make $5,000 an hour. So,

[1:03:26] people don't understand what's available

[1:03:28] until they start seeing other people

[1:03:31] that are thriving with it and like, "Oh,

[1:03:33] that's possible. It's possible for me,

[1:03:34] too." and it opens their mind.

[1:03:36] >> People are creating their own positions

[1:03:38] in companies, like chief wellness

[1:03:39] officer, you know, chief mental health

[1:03:42] advisor, because these companies are

[1:03:44] realizing that if people are burnt out,

[1:03:46] they're not going to have a strong, you

[1:03:48] know, ROI, let alone good team and

[1:03:50] cohesion, especially right now with with

[1:03:53] so much of the work space being like

[1:03:55] digital, some people going back to

[1:03:57] office and they don't want to. It's in

[1:03:59] the company's best interest to make sure

[1:04:01] that everyone's in alignment. So, that

[1:04:02] is if you are in corporate, that is such

[1:04:04] an easy way of actually increasing your

[1:04:07] hourly, getting paid more than ever, and

[1:04:10] you still have that more like safe,

[1:04:11] stable paycheck of corporate. And then

[1:04:13] so many people are yoga teachers,

[1:04:15] hypnotherapists, meditation teachers,

[1:04:17] Reiki healers, but they want to go

[1:04:19] deeper. They don't just want to share

[1:04:20] this, you know, one tool or exercise,

[1:04:23] but they want to talk to people,

[1:04:25] understand them, like

[1:04:27] what Alyssa just did for me. It's like,

[1:04:29] what a gift that you're able to go into

[1:04:31] people's subconscious and help them with

[1:04:32] like the biggest things of their lives

[1:04:35] that are holding them back from the very

[1:04:37] thing they want most. Like, that is so

[1:04:39] freaking cool that you can do that for

[1:04:41] your living.

[1:04:42] >> Yeah, and and the cool thing about this

[1:04:44] method is as you go at the root of it,

[1:04:47] it will elevate every other relationship

[1:04:49] and area of your life. So, if you're

[1:04:50] working with the root of fear of

[1:04:52] rejection, that's going to show up in

[1:04:54] how in sales. You won't be scared that

[1:04:57] they're going to reject you and you'll

[1:04:59] you'll do better in sales or in dating,

[1:05:01] right? If you're not afraid of being

[1:05:02] rejected, you're not going to get so

[1:05:04] heartbroken and you're going to be like,

[1:05:06] "Oh, they weren't just a match for me.

[1:05:08] It doesn't mean something personal to

[1:05:09] you." So, as you work it out the root,

[1:05:11] it elevates every other area, and if you

[1:05:14] are a facilitator, you should learn how

[1:05:16] to work it at the root so that you can

[1:05:18] serve your clients more deeply and be

[1:05:20] trauma-informed.

[1:05:22] >> I feel like the root is everything, and

[1:05:23] I love that that is the emphasis that

[1:05:25] you guys have because without it, we're

[1:05:27] just kind of putting on Band-Aids of,

[1:05:29] you know, like, "Okay, do this breath

[1:05:31] work or do this practice." And it's

[1:05:33] great, but if I don't change the

[1:05:35] underlying landscape of my life that is

[1:05:37] leading me to continue to find myself in

[1:05:39] the same situations. Yes, I'm dealing

[1:05:41] with the anxiety of it now, but why do I

[1:05:43] keep finding myself in this situation?

[1:05:45] We talked a lot about relationships, but

[1:05:47] money, that is a huge a huge loop

[1:05:49] pattern that people have, inability to

[1:05:51] save money, not knowing where their

[1:05:52] money goes, etc. And these are really

[1:05:55] big things that if unaddressed, can

[1:05:56] really harm people's lives, lineages,

[1:06:00] create generational trauma, and so many

[1:06:02] of us, we can see the things we're we're

[1:06:06] becoming aware, the step one, but now we

[1:06:08] need the tools, and I love how

[1:06:10] >> Institute for Mastery really gives

[1:06:12] people It's 1 year that the first year?

[1:06:14] >> Yeah, yeah, it's from February to

[1:06:16] December.

[1:06:17] >> Okay, great. So, it's like 1 year to

[1:06:19] even work on this for yourself. Like,

[1:06:21] maybe you don't know if you're going to

[1:06:22] create a career for this, but for how

[1:06:24] many hours a week is it?

[1:06:26] >> It's 5 hours a week on average. We have

[1:06:29] 4 weeks on, 1 week off. We have

[1:06:31] integration. We've never had anyone that

[1:06:32] couldn't do it in their life, and they

[1:06:35] end up being better parents, better

[1:06:36] leaders. They go, you know, a lot of

[1:06:39] people are like, "I want to be a coach,

[1:06:41] therapist, healer." Or "I don't know if

[1:06:43] I'm going to do that. I want to do this

[1:06:44] for my own personal work and have the

[1:06:46] structure." People walk away with two

[1:06:48] things. They walk away with confidence,

[1:06:49] and they walk away with clients. And so,

[1:06:51] maybe you want to have more confidence

[1:06:53] in your life, but you also want to

[1:06:55] create clients in any profession, this

[1:06:57] is the structure to not just talk about

[1:06:59] it, but actually create clients while

[1:07:01] you're held in the program cuz that was

[1:07:03] what I missed when I was becoming a

[1:07:04] therapist. Nobody supported me on that,

[1:07:07] and it's like, you have gifts to share

[1:07:09] and it is incredibly

[1:07:12] rewarding to share those and feel

[1:07:13] compensated for it. And so we make sure

[1:07:15] that it actually changes your business

[1:07:17] and life, not just a a talking about it.

[1:07:20] >> What is the difference between a

[1:07:22] therapist and a coach?

[1:07:24] >> Ooh, good question. So,

[1:07:26] people need therapists, they don't need

[1:07:28] a coach. So, coaching is about

[1:07:30] performance and optimization. Therapy is

[1:07:33] and there's a gray area, usually private

[1:07:35] practice. This is where people get mis-

[1:07:37] misunderstand it. Therapy, there's

[1:07:39] people in private practice that are

[1:07:40] going for personal development purposes.

[1:07:43] And when somebody has big T trauma,

[1:07:46] meaning I mean, there's a whole

[1:07:47] training, we do deep training on being

[1:07:49] trauma informed. But big T trauma, just

[1:07:51] to give it something to speak to for

[1:07:53] real quick, is you can't hold the

[1:07:55] present moment with you can't actually

[1:07:58] stay in the present moment. You get

[1:07:59] sucked into a loop in the past. It's too

[1:08:01] much too fast or it was too little for

[1:08:03] too long, like neglect. And so, if

[1:08:06] there's any big T trauma, that's outside

[1:08:09] of the scope for coaches. And so, that's

[1:08:11] when you work with a therapist.

[1:08:13] Therapist um or I should say coaches, I

[1:08:16] recommend you obviously not any big T

[1:08:19] trauma, not working with people around

[1:08:20] addiction,

[1:08:22] uh at least having 6 months to a year of

[1:08:24] sobriety cuz you think about it, if

[1:08:26] somebody is moving outside their comfort

[1:08:28] zone and they get scared, they're going

[1:08:29] to go to an old pattern that might not

[1:08:30] be healthy. And so, teaching them new

[1:08:32] ways of of operating.

[1:08:35] And having more tools that are

[1:08:36] healthier. Um

[1:08:38] but you think about if you're driving a

[1:08:40] car, coaching is about looking through

[1:08:42] the the the front uh view versus therapy

[1:08:45] is just the rear view. So, the way that

[1:08:47] I teach incorporates psychological

[1:08:50] healing and transformation

[1:08:52] with business and performance, but it's

[1:08:55] for people that are highly functioning.

[1:08:57] And it's results oriented. So, with

[1:09:00] healing, it's about healing the past and

[1:09:02] resolving certain things. With coaching,

[1:09:04] it's more about what's my intention, how

[1:09:05] do I want to create something different

[1:09:06] in my life, and I teach my coaches and

[1:09:09] their clients teach they teach their

[1:09:11] clients how to have tools to navigate

[1:09:13] their own life so that they're not

[1:09:15] dependent on a therapist, but again,

[1:09:17] they're highly functioning and

[1:09:20] um and they can actually they can

[1:09:22] the coach oftentimes I hear from my

[1:09:24] coaches that their clients say that it's

[1:09:27] more profound working with an ICM coach

[1:09:29] than years of therapy. And I found this

[1:09:32] as well. I was a great therapist, but

[1:09:34] using action and helping to me like a

[1:09:37] real healing is a change of behavior.

[1:09:39] So, if I'm encouraging and empowering my

[1:09:41] client to change their life, anything

[1:09:43] that has held them back comes up and

[1:09:45] then they have the tools to navigate it.

[1:09:47] But, we're but it's really important

[1:09:49] that it's somebody that is highly

[1:09:50] functioning and so that they and that

[1:09:53] they're learning tools to navigate it on

[1:09:54] their own. So, I I make sure that people

[1:09:56] are really informed in the program when

[1:09:59] is it better to work with a therapist

[1:10:00] and when is it and what does it look

[1:10:02] like to work with a coach?

[1:10:04] >> Thank you for sharing that. What does a

[1:10:06] typical week in the Institute for

[1:10:07] Mastery look like?

[1:10:09] >> Yeah, so Tuesdays I'm there 10:00 and

[1:10:11] 5:00 p.m. Pacific. So, I I love being in

[1:10:14] there. It's one of my favorite things.

[1:10:15] So, they can join either call 10:00 or

[1:10:17] 5:00 and I coach every week. So, I do a

[1:10:20] session, I unpack it, and I do

[1:10:22] transformational work for the students.

[1:10:24] Um they're really beautiful, fun Those

[1:10:26] are like my one of my favorite days. So,

[1:10:27] that's Tuesday. Wednesday, they work

[1:10:30] with a somebody in the program to learn

[1:10:32] a new tool and practice it with each

[1:10:33] other. So, they're working through

[1:10:35] whatever's coming up in their life,

[1:10:36] feeling more open-hearted, open-minded,

[1:10:38] and getting practice and they're getting

[1:10:40] feedback. So, mastery is really about

[1:10:42] getting your reps in, really getting

[1:10:44] that feedback, and just getting

[1:10:45] practice.

[1:10:46] And then there's an optional call. If

[1:10:48] people want to be

[1:10:50] they want to go deeper into somatic work

[1:10:51] cuz they love it or they just really

[1:10:53] want to feel held in a small cohort.

[1:10:55] There's an optional optional Thursday

[1:10:57] call at the time that they pick to have

[1:10:59] a mentor coach and usually the groups

[1:11:01] are like 12 to 15 where they go deeper

[1:11:04] into the material and feel more embodied

[1:11:06] and confident in it. And so up to three

[1:11:10] live calls, but if they're going for

[1:11:11] certification, it's two calls a week.

[1:11:14] And the training videos they can watch

[1:11:15] on their own, but all of that is 5 hours

[1:11:18] other than the a week on average other

[1:11:20] than the Thursday additional optional

[1:11:22] call.

[1:11:23] >> So it's super doable. You have different

[1:11:25] times people could be on different time

[1:11:26] zones. People could have a full-time job

[1:11:28] and still make it work. That is

[1:11:29] >> Yeah, we've had over 2,000 grads. So

[1:11:31] it's it's a dialed in program that yeah,

[1:11:34] people and we have a 35% re-enrollment

[1:11:36] rate meaning people love the program so

[1:11:38] much they go deeper into the work. They

[1:11:40] do it again multiple years.

[1:11:42] >> That's huge and speaks so much. So we

[1:11:44] have a thousand dollars off on

[1:11:47] alyssanobriga.com/sahara

[1:11:49] and I will also gift you guys my speak

[1:11:51] with soul program. So this is a 21-day

[1:11:54] program. Yes, throwing that in for

[1:11:57] everyone who uses my link because I love

[1:11:59] Alyssa. We've been besties for 10 years

[1:12:01] and I just want to support this as much

[1:12:03] as I can because she's really

[1:12:05] transformed my life like beyond this

[1:12:07] session. And so yeah, speak with soul is

[1:12:10] a course for you that I talk about all

[1:12:11] the time on the podcast to get you more

[1:12:13] comfortable speaking for social media,

[1:12:15] stages, retreats, podcasts, with your

[1:12:18] clients. The list goes on. So that is a

[1:12:20] freebie that you get when you sign up

[1:12:23] plus the thousand dollars off with the

[1:12:24] early bird. She has her five-day

[1:12:27] challenge coming up. So can they find

[1:12:29] that link on alyssanobriga.com/sahara?

[1:12:32] >> I'll yes, and I'll make sure that that's

[1:12:34] on there for you guys. Yeah, and it'll

[1:12:35] be it'll be powerful. It'll have

[1:12:37] five-day immersion where we'll go deep.

[1:12:39] We'll get comments.

[1:12:40] >> challenge?

[1:12:40] >> Oh my god, it's so good. So we'll talk

[1:12:42] about healing your relationship with

[1:12:43] money, but you can replace money with a

[1:12:44] lover, a partner. It's the same. We're

[1:12:46] working it out the root, okay? We're

[1:12:48] also going to So we do the subconscious

[1:12:49] reprogramming. We're going to help you

[1:12:51] overcome the fear of being seen because

[1:12:53] this is big. When you want to share your

[1:12:54] magic in the world, a lot of people are

[1:12:56] like, "I'm scared of being seen," which

[1:12:57] is really the fear of being rejected.

[1:12:59] So, we're going to work with that.

[1:13:00] Again, you could do money or love. It's

[1:13:02] the same tools and a different topic.

[1:13:05] And I'm going to give you strategies for

[1:13:07] where to create clients today for free,

[1:13:08] if you're interested, without ever

[1:13:10] having to rely on social media. So,

[1:13:12] we'll do some transformational inner and

[1:13:14] then we'll also do outer. We'll do the

[1:13:15] do be do, but it's 5 days, it's an

[1:13:17] immersion, and it's absolutely free.

[1:13:19] It's really a beautiful experience.

[1:13:21] >> I'm so excited for that. All right, so

[1:13:24] you can find everything at

[1:13:25] alyssanobriga.com/sahara.

[1:13:27] You can find that link in the show

[1:13:28] notes. I'm so excited to support you. If

[1:13:30] you do sign up, be sure to email me as

[1:13:32] well, so we can get get you that Speak

[1:13:34] With Soul course. I'll have my email as

[1:13:36] well listed in the show notes. Alyssa,

[1:13:39] thank you so much for being on today.

[1:13:41] >> So much so good. I love you.

[1:13:42] >> I'm going to really meditate on that,

[1:13:44] cuz it's so true. It's like true love is

[1:13:46] expression, you know, marrying them

[1:13:48] further and further.

[1:13:50] >> That's right. And you probably won't

[1:13:53] sense that at first, and then and I'm

[1:13:55] here as your friend to remind you to

[1:13:58] like feel into that and that you get to

[1:13:59] have that and also just feel that

[1:14:01] witnessed and seen with me and with your

[1:14:04] other girlfriends to really let that be

[1:14:06] an imprint in your system.

[1:14:08] >> And that's the best part about becoming

[1:14:09] a coach. You guys get to coach each

[1:14:10] other.

[1:14:11] >> Yeah.

[1:14:11] It's It's an occupational hazard. It's

[1:14:13] fun.

[1:14:14] >> Yeah, it's so good. All right, we're so

[1:14:17] excited to have you in the program, to

[1:14:19] do the challenge, and thank you so much

[1:14:20] for listening. This is such a good one

[1:14:21] to share with your friends. So many good

[1:14:23] takeaways. Let me know if you relate to

[1:14:25] the same kind of wound that I have. I'm

[1:14:27] so curious. I think it's a lot of us

[1:14:29] whose deepest desire is to express is

[1:14:31] like the wound is the way, you know,

[1:14:33] it's it's because we didn't feel that

[1:14:34] way as children. So, I'm curious to

[1:14:37] share in the YouTube comments, did you

[1:14:38] feel the same way? And we'll see you in

[1:14:40] the next episode. Bye.

[1:14:42] >> Trust your intuition. [music]

[1:14:43] Trust your inner wisdom. Trust your

[1:14:44] inner goddess. Close your eyes and

[1:14:46] listen.

[1:14:47] Feel the let go. Feel the let go.

[1:14:51] So, trust your intuition, trust your

[1:14:53] inner wisdom, trust your inner guidance,

[1:14:54] because it has an essence.

Sahara Rose
ArtistSahara Rose

A bestselling author, speaker and spiritual teacher who makes ancient wisdom embodied and relevant to everyday life, and hosts a podcast the site calls the #1 spirituality show in…

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Explore Topics
Self-betrayalRelationship-patternsAttachment-woundsSelf-expressionProtective-parts

Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

In this conversation, Sahara Rose describes a bargain she kept making: limiting her expression to keep a partner comfortable. Alyssa Nobriga frames that feeling as a protective pattern, often rooted in childhood, rather than a fact about relationships in general. The work is to see the pattern and stop betraying yourself to avoid hurt.
The episode's opening cut argues that the rupture itself is not what hurts most. The injury comes from self-betrayal, the moment we edit ourselves or decide in advance that a relationship cannot hold our full selves. Trying to avoid getting hurt, the speakers suggest, is often how we end up getting hurt.
Alyssa Nobriga says she looks at anything that is contracting us as a breadcrumb to help free us. The idea is to treat stress around money or love as information about where you are still bound, rather than as a verdict on your life. Working at the root means the insight can then apply across every area.
Nobriga suggests that we are often drawn to people who are a perfect puzzle piece for our wounds. Instead of trying to manage or change the partner, she recommends asking what pattern they are mirroring inside you. That shifts the focus from control to self-understanding.
Nobriga, who trained as a therapist and has worked as a couple's therapist, answers yes to both. She says we need to learn tools to be responsible for our own experience, while also recognizing that we are relational beings who need people who can meet us in depth. Outsourcing that inner work entirely is where much anxiety tends to come from.
The episode describes meeting the feeling the way a child would and simply being with it, rather than rushing it toward resolution. The impulse to fix a feeling often comes from the same protective strategy that suppresses self-expression. Staying present with the feeling is one way to stop abandoning yourself.
The conversation suggests yes, but not in the old bargain form where you shrink to be loved. Nobriga describes love as something awakened in you rather than handed to you, and full expression as something you keep alive yourself. A partner who meets you in that expression is a gift, not a requirement.

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