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Inspire

Law of One Language as a Weapon: Service-to-Self Explained

Bentinho Massaro
Bentinho Massaro
May 24, 2026
10 min read
Watch · 7

Early in a conversation that runs close to an hour and forty-five minutes, host Mark Vicente asks his guest the question that frames everything after it: where did this cross the line for you? Aaron Abke, a teacher whose work is built on the Law of One and A Course in Miracles, has agreed to step well outside his usual lane. He is not there to debate cosmology. He is there because, as he tells Vicente, if these abuses are happening, nothing could be more important. The episode, published in May 2026, takes one specific claim seriously: that critics of Bentinho Massaro are "operating from" a service-to-self entity, a phrase drawn directly from the Law of One and used, Vicente argues, as a way to dismiss anyone who pushes back. Abke's answer is to read the text back to the people using it, and to show how closely its description of negative beings fits what former members have described.

Read · 9 sections

Why would a Law of One teacher go public against another teacher?

The motive, as Abke frames it, is not a theological quarrel. It is watching a set of tools get turned on people. Vicente sets up the context in his introduction: the people who have spoken out, Jacqueline, Keilan, and Jade, are being told in the comment sections and by people still inside Massaro's world that they "didn't understand the teachings," that they weren't advanced enough, that if they had grasped what was on offer they would have seen things differently. Vicente calls the dismissal exhausting, and says he has heard the same argument from people inside other groups he has covered.

Abke's own path into the conversation is personal. He describes an encounter with Massaro years earlier, and says that watching the Inst@Guru interviews made pieces fall into place that had not made sense since 2019. Vicente summarizes the pattern Abke saw: the constant jokes about his sexuality, the steady effort to knock him down, what Vicente calls "the same playbook" Abke believes was used on Keilan. "Same pattern, different target," is how Vicente puts it. By the time Abke reached Jade's interview, he says, the picture was complete. He contacted all three.

Who is Aaron Abke, and how did he end up in the Law of One?

Abke's biography is the kind of arc that tends to produce a particular sort of teacher. He grew up in evangelical Christianity as a third-generation pastor's son, a self-described "golden boy" who led worship young and set his life up to follow his father and grandfather into the pulpit. He earned a bachelor's degree in music and theology at Oral Roberts University and began a pastoral career at 23.

The doubts came earlier than the job. He says he started wrestling with Christian doctrine around 17, stored the questions away, and was forced to confront them when he became worship pastor at a church where he was leading Sunday services. In his words, "I don't believe half the stuff coming out of our mouths from the pulpit." He quit the job, left Christianity, and spent roughly six years on what he calls a hero's journey, asking what he believed about God, who he was, and what the universe was. That search led him through Hinduism and Buddhism and eventually to two texts he describes as life-changing: the Law of One and A Course in Miracles.

He began making YouTube videos about those teachings "just for fun," and some of them took off. He moved from personal training into full-time online teaching and one-on-one coaching in August 2019, and that is the period when he began communicating with Massaro. The two eventually met in person after Abke moved to Denver. That detail matters for the argument that follows, because Abke is not speaking about a stranger's teachings from a distance. He knows the texts, and he knows the man who claims to speak through them.

What is the Law of One, and why does its vocabulary matter?

Vicente asks for the basics, and Abke gives them. The Law of One is a channeled text from the 1980s, produced by a group of researchers who, in the mid-1970s, had become fascinated with UFOs and extraterrestrial contact. They assembled a group of twelve channelers and tried for roughly a decade to make contact. Their most consequential insight, as Abke tells it, was that if you want to understand advanced beings, you should care less about their technology and more about their spirituality and philosophy, and that it might be possible to communicate mind to mind.

That origin is important because it explains why the text is so psychologically detailed. It is not a rulebook for gurus. It is a long, often dense account of how consciousness moves, how beings choose their orientation, and what that choice does to the people around them. Its most-quoted framework, and the one at the center of this episode, is polarity: the idea that beings organize themselves around either serving others or serving themselves. For a community that prizes its vocabulary, that framework becomes a kind of grammar. Once members learn it, they can name almost anything.

What does service-to-self actually describe?

This is where the conversation gets its force. Vicente's framing is that STS, as the term is used in Massaro's circle, is deployed as a weapon: a way to dismiss, discredit, and isolate anyone who pushes back. Abke's response is to go back to the source. The question he asks is simple: is that actually what the text says? How does the polarity really work, and what does it look like in practice?

What he lays out is not a broad debunking of Massaro's teachings. It is a precise account of how the Ra material describes beings who use knowledge, spiritual language, and psychological manipulation to control others. The point is that a negative orientation is characterized by what it does to people, not by how it labels its critics. Vicente says the description maps closely onto what the three former members have reported. He is careful to frame this as a reading of the text, not a verdict on any individual.

"I am grateful that Aaron felt compelled to speak out and not be silent about them being weaponized." (Mark Vicente, introduction)

That distinction is the core of the piece. A text can be loved and still be misused. Abke says he loves these teachings, and that is why he couldn't stay silent watching them become a tool of control.

What did Abke see when he met Massaro in person?

The episode's own summary of Abke's experience is blunt. He found a figure "bearing almost no resemblance" to the one on YouTube: crude, sexually predatory, emotionally unhinged, and deeply insecure. The conversation does not hinge on a single incident, but the description returns to the constant gay jokes and the relentless attempts to knock him down. Vicente reports that Abke had been sitting with the experience for years before the interviews made him act. These are Abke's accounts as presented in the episode; they are not independently verified in the material here, and the excerpt does not include a response from Massaro.

It is worth noticing what the critics are not saying, as Vicente describes them. The argument is not that Massaro's ideas are foreign to the Law of One. It is that the way those ideas are deployed, to make dissent itself the evidence of spiritual failure, is a pattern that the text itself warns about.

Is the "you didn't understand the teachings" defense valid?

Abke's implicit answer is no, and the logic is worth following. If a teacher can say that anyone who disagrees has been captured by a negative entity, then disagreement becomes proof of the teacher's claim. Vicente draws the parallel explicitly: "I've heard the same [garbage] from every single cult." The dismissal does not engage the argument. It relocates the problem into the critic.

Abke goes further in a passage on what he calls a litmus test. Reaching for solipsism, the idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist, he suggests it works as one of the best tests anyone can use on a teacher who is teaching the teachings. The excerpt cuts off before the full framework is stated, so it is best to treat this as a direction of argument rather than a complete method. But the direction is clear: the question is not what a teacher claims, but how the teacher treats those who question the claim.

He also points to a warning sign he sees in teachers who say that when followers refuse to listen, something is wrong with the followers. Read against the Law of One's own account of manipulation, that line becomes a test of its own.

What about the claim to be Ra, and the letter from the Himalayas?

The conversation also addresses Massaro's claim to be Ra, a sixth-density being, and his recent letter from the Himalayas. The material here does not give the letter's full text, so the article cannot characterize its contents beyond what the episode says. What the episode does establish is the logic Abke applies: when someone claims a status that places them above critique, the claim itself deserves the same scrutiny as any other statement, and the Law of One's own description of how beings operate is the standard to measure it against.

What does genuine transformation actually require?

Near the end, the conversation turns from diagnosis to the question of what real change looks like, for the teacher and for the community. Abke's argument is that transformation is not measured by vocabulary, by how fluently a person can invoke polarity or density, or by how many followers stay loyal. It is measured by whether a teacher's conduct matches the values the teacher preaches, and whether people are free to leave, question, and speak without being labeled as the problem.

The episode closes on a note of gratitude. Vicente thanks Abke and presents the conversation as an effort to understand what he suspects is a misuse of these teachings, not a debate over the framework itself. "This is not a debate about the Law of One," the episode's description says. "Aaron loves these teachings. What he couldn't stay silent about was watching them be used as a weapon."

Where to go from here

If the argument in this episode interests you, the most useful next step is to read the Law of One material yourself, especially the passages on polarity and on how service-to-self beings relate to others, and to test the claims against the text rather than against any teacher's summary, including this one. Watch the full conversation to hear Abke's account in his own words, and note what Vicente asks and what he leaves unresolved. Then look at the public record: the former members' accounts, Massaro's own responses, and the letter from the Himalayas, read alongside each other. A teaching that is honest about its own warnings should be able to withstand that kind of reading.

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Transcript

[0:00] First, I want to acknowledge that this

[0:02] is not something you would normally do.

[0:04] Where did this cross the line for you?

[0:06] >> So, we would It would take a lot for me

[0:08] to want to publicly call somebody out

[0:10] like this. But, if these abuses are

[0:13] happening, nothing could be more

[0:14] important than this. When did you meet

[0:16] him?

[0:16] >> That was the same night as the hot tub

[0:17] incident.

[0:18] >> Yeah, tell me about that, too. It's very

[0:20] quickly it's starting to get a little

[0:21] risqué. You're offering us drinks. What

[0:23] makes this so, [music] I guess,

[0:25] upsetting for you? I could have never

[0:27] imagined

[0:28] that this is the guy

[0:30] behind the scenes that I saw on YouTube

[0:32] for 2 years, and they couldn't be more

[0:33] night and day. Why have you been

[0:35] struggling with this so much? There's

[0:37] few people that I would say are truly

[0:40] dangerous,

[0:42] and I would put Bentinho in that rare

[0:44] category.

[1:10] One of the things I kept hearing from

[1:12] people still connected to Bentinho's

[1:13] world was some version of the same

[1:15] dismissal.

[1:17] Jacqueline, Keelan, and Jade didn't

[1:19] understand the teachings.

[1:21] If they had been further along or more

[1:23] evolved or more advanced, they would

[1:25] have seen things differently.

[1:27] The YouTube comments on this series are

[1:28] littered with this perspective, and

[1:30] honestly, it's exhausting. [music] I've

[1:32] heard the same [ __ ] from every single

[1:33] cult.

[1:34] So, what are these grand teachings that

[1:36] they've misunderstood? To clarify that,

[1:39] I ended up talking to Aaron Abke.

[1:41] Aaron grew up as a pastor's son, earning

[1:43] a degree in music and theology, and

[1:45] spending a year as a full-time worship

[1:47] pastor before walking away from

[1:49] evangelical Christianity at age 23.

[1:52] He eventually found his way to the Law

[1:54] of One and A Course in Miracles, which

[1:55] became the foundation of his work as a

[1:57] spiritual teacher.

[1:59] He's someone who genuinely loves these

[2:01] teachings, has built a life around them,

[2:03] and knows them well.

[2:05] I want to explain quickly how this

[2:06] conversation came about cuz it's kind of

[2:08] important.

[2:09] It started when Aaron watched Jaclyn's

[2:11] Instaguru interview. He was horrified.

[2:14] Aaron had his own encounter with

[2:15] Bentinho years earlier,

[2:17] and watching her interview pieces

[2:19] started falling into place that hadn't

[2:20] made sense before.

[2:22] Then he watched Keelan's interview, and

[2:24] something else clicked.

[2:25] The way Bentinho had treated Aaron, the

[2:27] constant gay jokes, the relentless

[2:29] attempts to knock him down,

[2:31] it was the same playbook he'd used on

[2:32] Keelan. Same pattern, different target.

[2:36] By the time Aaron watched Jade's

[2:37] interview, the picture was complete.

[2:40] He reached out to the three defectors.

[2:42] What had started as a, I guess,

[2:44] smoldering suspicion had become

[2:46] something he couldn't stay silent about,

[2:48] and that's how we ended up here.

[2:50] One of Bentinho's most consistent

[2:51] accusations against the people who have

[2:53] spoken out is that they're operating

[2:55] from or have been taken over by a

[2:57] service-to-self entity.

[3:00] STS.

[3:01] It's a specific term, drawn directly

[3:03] from the Law of One,

[3:05] and it's deployed as a weapon, a way to

[3:06] dismiss, discredit, and isolate anyone

[3:09] who pushes back.

[3:10] So, we did something simple. We went to

[3:12] a Law of One teacher and asked,

[3:14] "Is that actually what the text says?

[3:17] How does the service-to-self polarity

[3:18] actually work?

[3:20] And what does it look like in practice?"

[3:23] What Aaron lays out in this conversation

[3:24] is not a broad debunking of Bentinho's

[3:26] [music] teachings. It's something more

[3:28] specific and actually more unsettling.

[3:30] It's a precise account of how the Law of

[3:32] One describes beings who use knowledge,

[3:34] spiritual language, and psychological

[3:36] manipulation to control others, and how

[3:39] closely that description maps onto what

[3:41] the people in this series have

[3:42] experienced.

[3:43] My purpose in talking to Aaron was not

[3:45] to argue about the Law of One or have a

[3:47] debate about the framework Aaron sees

[3:49] the world through.

[3:50] I wanted to understand what I suspect

[3:52] was a misuse of these particular

[3:53] teachings.

[3:55] I'm grateful that Aaron felt compelled

[3:56] to speak out and not be silent about

[3:58] them being weaponized.

[4:00] Here's Aaron Abke.

[4:03] Okay. So, first I want to acknowledge

[4:05] that this is not something you would

[4:07] normally do.

[4:08] I said that as I walked in. Correct.

[4:10] >> And I appreciate that. Cuz this is a

[4:12] little bit out of side of what you

[4:14] normally talk about, but I think it's

[4:16] important. I do, too.

[4:18] Do you mind, just for the audience, just

[4:20] letting them know like who you are, how

[4:23] you came to be who you are, and you

[4:26] know, what you teach and what you stand

[4:27] for?

[4:29] Yeah, the long and short of it is I grew

[4:30] up in Evangelical Christianity as a

[4:32] third-generation pastor's son.

[4:34] >> [snorts]

[4:35] >> So, I was a golden boy, you know,

[4:37] pastor's kid. I wanted to follow in my

[4:39] dad and grandfather's footsteps and had

[4:42] set up my life [clears throat] to do

[4:43] that.

[4:44] Started leading worship at a young age,

[4:46] went to um Oral Roberts University, got

[4:49] my degree in in a a bachelor's in music

[4:51] and theology, and then started my

[4:53] pastoral career at 23.

[4:56] And I started I had started wrestling

[4:58] with some Christian dogmas around 17

[5:01] years old.

[5:02] And had a lot of questions that I

[5:04] couldn't answer, but I stuffed them

[5:05] away, you know.

[5:08] And it was when I got this job at this

[5:10] church that I was really forced into

[5:12] confronting

[5:13] all the depictions and views of God that

[5:16] I did not agree with. And

[5:18] that was tough because here I am, newly

[5:21] hired at this church. I'm the worship

[5:23] pastor of the church. I'm leading the

[5:25] Sunday services, and I don't believe

[5:27] half the stuff coming out of our mouths

[5:29] from the pulpit.

[5:30] So, that

[5:32] was a lot of internal conflict to to

[5:34] process, and I just decided I need to be

[5:36] true to what I feel and tell the truth.

[5:38] So,

[5:39] I kind of blew up my life, left [snorts]

[5:41] Christianity, quit my job, and uh spent

[5:45] the next I would say like 6 years

[5:47] just trying to um I of on the hero's

[5:50] journey. Like what do I believe about

[5:52] God? Who am I? What is the nature of the

[5:54] universe? And through that journey,

[5:57] especially like Eastern philosophies,

[5:59] Hinduism and Buddhism,

[6:01] um I was eventually led to texts two two

[6:04] critical texts for me, which are the Law

[6:06] of One and A Course in Miracles. And

[6:09] those two texts really changed my life

[6:12] in many ways.

[6:13] And I'm very much indebted to these

[6:15] texts. And so I started making some

[6:17] YouTube videos about the teachings I was

[6:19] passionate about just for fun.

[6:22] And to my surprise, some of them started

[6:24] doing really well. And before I knew it,

[6:26] I had, you know, a a career basically on

[6:29] YouTube if I wanted one. And so I was a

[6:31] personal trainer at the time at Google

[6:34] and I had a pretty good comfy job there,

[6:36] but it wasn't what I wanted to do. I

[6:38] wanted to do something that's

[6:40] um very impactful to the planet at a

[6:43] larger level than just myself.

[6:45] And so I decided to transition from

[6:48] personal training to full-time YouTube

[6:51] and uh one-on-one coaching and stuff

[6:53] like that. So I did that and I made that

[6:55] transition in August of 2019. And that's

[6:59] the time around the time where I started

[7:01] communicating with Bentinho and

[7:03] eventually we met up when I moved to uh

[7:05] Denver, Colorado.

[7:08] I have so many questions just from what

[7:09] you said. Okay, let's just start with

[7:11] Law of One first because there's a

[7:13] version of the Law of One that I've told

[7:15] my audience about, but like just briefly

[7:18] explain

[7:19] Law of One from your perspective.

[7:22] So the Law of One is a channeled text

[7:24] from the 1980s

[7:27] from a group of extraterrestrial

[7:29] researchers who were kind of passionate

[7:30] about this topic back in the mid-70s.

[7:34] And they had set up a group of 12

[7:36] channelers. Uh

[7:38] what they were trying to do was

[7:40] understand the nature of this phenomenon

[7:43] of UFOs and ETs because it was

[7:45] apparently really big. There was a lot

[7:47] of activity back then at that time.

[7:49] And they were trying to figure out who

[7:51] are these beings, why are they here, how

[7:52] do we communicate with them?

[7:54] And they had the clever idea of

[7:56] realizing that if we want to really know

[7:58] or understand these beings, we should

[8:00] probably be more interested in their

[8:03] spirituality and their philosophy than

[8:06] just their technology.

[8:07] And so they thought maybe we can

[8:09] communicate mind to mind with these

[8:11] advanced beings. So they started this

[8:12] channeling group and they tried to make

[8:14] contact for um

[8:16] I want to say it was about 10 years that

[8:18] they were doing this on and off and on.

[8:20] And it wasn't until one of the guys in

[8:22] the group their their first big mistake

[8:24] was it was all guys, no women. And we

[8:26] all know women just make better

[8:27] channelers than men, but

[8:29] one of the girlfriends of one of the

[8:31] guys in the group joined to sit in and

[8:32] watch and she was fascinated with this

[8:35] phenomenon of channeling and she said,

[8:37] "Hey, can I learn how to do this?" And

[8:38] they were like, "Oh, sure, we'll teach

[8:40] you."

[8:41] And I think within a matter of months of

[8:42] her learning they had their first real

[8:44] contact with an extraterrestrial being

[8:47] through Carla. And it was actually when

[8:49] she was teaching another person to

[8:50] channel and she was demonstrating it and

[8:52] this message comes through, "I am Ra."

[8:55] And Don and Jim, who were the other two

[8:57] members of the group, uh realized

[9:00] immediately this feels like a really

[9:01] genuine contact. Let's do a private

[9:04] dedicated session with this entity.

[9:07] And so that's what began the Law of One

[9:08] text where for the next four years, over

[9:10] 106 sessions,

[9:12] they just do a kind of question and

[9:14] answer with this entity that's

[9:16] channeling through Carla, who's in kind

[9:18] of a trance state. And they're just kind

[9:20] of asking about the nature of the

[9:22] universe and spiritual evolution and

[9:24] things like reincarnation and all kinds

[9:26] of really cool topics, but what I love

[9:28] about the Law of One and the way that

[9:31] this text really changed my life is it

[9:33] just has a unique way of giving

[9:36] extremely satisfying answers to these

[9:39] big existential questions of cosmology,

[9:42] right? Who are we? Why are we here? What

[9:45] is a planet? What is a star? Is the

[9:47] universe infinite? Reincarnation. And

[9:50] they explain these ideas that are

[9:52] typically

[9:54] seen as esoteric in a very scientific

[9:56] way.

[9:57] Everyone seems to have the same reaction

[9:58] to this text that I had, which is when

[10:01] you're reading it, you just feel like

[10:03] you're remembering all these truths for

[10:05] the first time. And so it's a very, very

[10:07] benevolent text in that I do believe it

[10:10] lays out the most accurate sort of

[10:12] cosmology that I've ever come across.

[10:14] And it explains this dichotomy of the

[10:17] two polarities of consciousness that

[10:19] every being has to make a choice between

[10:21] the positive or the negative polarity.

[10:24] And there is no third option.

[10:26] And so they teach that this planet we're

[10:28] on is considered a third density planet.

[10:31] There are seven densities that this is

[10:33] part of their cosmology. Seven densities

[10:36] in the universe and they they correlate

[10:37] to the seven energy centers. So

[10:40] consciousness is kind of traveling

[10:41] through the color spectrum as it evolves

[10:43] is the idea. And humanity is in the

[10:45] third density, so the third chakra,

[10:48] which is the solar plexus. And if you

[10:50] know anything about chakras, then you

[10:51] know that that's typically considered

[10:53] the ego chakra. So humanity is in this

[10:55] stage of ego consciousness. And Ra is a

[10:59] sixth density

[11:01] sort of group mind. And they are trying

[11:03] to help humanity evolve into the fourth

[11:06] density of consciousness, which is the

[11:09] the heart chakra density. So that's the

[11:11] density where consciousness becomes

[11:12] aware of unity and love being the most

[11:15] important thing.

[11:16] And so we're we're trying to make this

[11:17] transition the Law of One teaches.

[11:20] And to do that, we have to all make a

[11:22] choice between service to others, the

[11:24] positive, or service to self, the

[11:26] negative. And they What I appreciate

[11:28] about the text more than anything,

[11:29] especially as as pertains to this

[11:32] conversation today

[11:34] is it just gives you such a clear

[11:36] picture of how positive beings behave

[11:39] and operate and

[11:41] kind of what rule sets they play by and

[11:44] negative beings how they operate in the

[11:46] universe and the rule book that they

[11:47] play by and there's a lot of

[11:51] the same rules in these two rule books

[11:52] because there's only one universe so

[11:55] both positive and negative beings are

[11:56] still in the same universe

[11:58] but it's the way that each polarity uses

[12:00] these universal laws

[12:03] that makes all the difference. Okay.

[12:06] There sound like there's some

[12:08] similarities to Christianity

[12:10] but the the

[12:13] levels of awareness is very very

[12:15] different so at Ra's

[12:18] sixth density level

[12:20] that perception allows you to be able to

[12:22] see all the levels below more clearly is

[12:24] that right?

[12:25] >> Yeah, okay.

[12:27] Okay, now let me switch to Bentinho. So

[12:30] tell me like when did you when did you

[12:32] meet him?

[12:33] How did you meet him?

[12:35] So I was a fan of his teachings for

[12:37] about two years I think when I was

[12:39] working at Google in San Jose as a

[12:41] personal trainer. What year would that

[12:43] have been do you think? So that

[12:44] [clears throat] would have been 2017 to

[12:45] 2018 2019. Yeah.

[12:49] And um

[12:50] you know Bentinho does a great job of of

[12:52] presenting a certain version of himself

[12:54] online

[12:55] and much like everyone I've spoken to

[12:58] who came across his videos you want to

[13:00] and you're like wow is this guy really

[13:01] in this kind of blissed out state and

[13:04] he's really achieved this level of self

[13:06] realization at such a young age

[13:09] and he's Bentinho is very intellectually

[13:12] smart person so he does a fantastic job

[13:15] of orating spiritual principles and

[13:18] that's as I mentioned a minute ago

[13:19] that's one of the

[13:21] playbooks of the negative polarity is to

[13:23] be extremely advanced in knowledge and

[13:26] to impress and

[13:28] hypnotize people with their knowledge to

[13:30] pull them in to begin the manipulation

[13:32] and the control. And so I didn't know

[13:34] any of this back then cuz I just gotten

[13:36] into the Law of One a few years ago and

[13:38] hadn't gone as deep into it as I am

[13:39] today.

[13:40] And so it was [clears throat]

[13:42] uh

[13:43] June or May or June of 2019. Um I had

[13:47] followed him and I'd commented on some

[13:48] of his posts and I think we had

[13:50] exchanged some comments here and there.

[13:53] So he was kind of like aware of me.

[13:55] But I was teaching on Instagram a lot of

[13:57] the Law of One stuff as well.

[13:59] And he just messaged me one day and

[14:01] said, "Hey man, I love love what you're

[14:03] sharing. If you're ever in the Denver

[14:05] area or the Boulder area, uh hit me up

[14:07] and we'll hang out."

[14:08] And I was like, "Wow, this is so cool.

[14:10] Like a guy that I really respect and

[14:12] admire wants to hang out with me. This

[14:13] is awesome."

[14:15] And so I said, "Well, I'm actually

[14:16] planning on moving to Boulder in

[14:18] August." As it would as chance would

[14:20] have it, right?

[14:21] And so he said, "Okay, cool. Hit me up

[14:23] and we'll we'll hang out." So few months

[14:25] later I moved to to Boulder and I'd

[14:27] probably been there for like

[14:29] a month or so. Yeah.

[14:32] And then he reached out again and said,

[14:34] "Hey, are you in Boulder? Like let's

[14:35] hang out."

[14:37] And I said, "Yeah, yeah, I'm in Boulder

[14:38] and we'll catch up." And then it was

[14:40] like a week after that that I was at the

[14:42] gym one night and I got a text from

[14:44] Corey

[14:46] who we also followed each other and kind

[14:48] of had a cursory relationship on social

[14:50] media. And she invited me to uh some

[14:54] kind of dinner they were having. So

[14:55] that's how I got um connected to their

[14:57] kind of group and the big pull for me,

[15:01] Mark, was that

[15:02] I was living in total isolation in the

[15:04] Bay Area for 4 years. I had The only

[15:07] friend I had was kind of my roommate in

[15:08] San Jose. If you've ever been to the Bay

[15:11] Area these days, you kind of understand

[15:12] why that is.

[15:14] It's just not a place that's conducive

[15:16] for

[15:17] uh a social scene and and creating

[15:20] friendships because everybody's kind of

[15:21] locked into their little bubble worlds

[15:23] and zipping from work to home, you know,

[15:25] and it's hour and half traffic both

[15:27] ways. Like there's just not a lot of

[15:28] opportunity to meet friends.

[15:30] So, I was calling in and praying

[15:32] that God would bring me an aligned

[15:33] friend group.

[15:35] And so, when Bentinho and Corey started

[15:36] reaching out and inviting me, I'm just

[15:38] thinking, "Oh, this is a clear

[15:39] manifestation of what I prayed for." And

[15:42] so, I went in with a lot of some naivete

[15:45] of just kind of assuming that it was

[15:46] this

[15:47] great manifestation. And so, it took me,

[15:50] you know, a couple of red flags. I

[15:52] missed a couple of the first red flags

[15:54] before I started to say, "Wait a minute.

[15:57] This is not adding up at all to uh the

[15:59] person I thought this that Bentinho

[16:01] was."

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[16:56] All right. Back to the episode.

[16:59] So, let me just go back to the feeling.

[17:01] So, it satisfied this

[17:03] I guess in some ways a kind of

[17:04] loneliness at first, right?

[17:06] It probably felt really good.

[17:09] Definitely. Um is that what made you

[17:10] maybe not look at the red flags? We'll

[17:12] get to what they are per segment. Is

[17:13] that what may maybe made you not look at

[17:14] them at first cuz it just felt kind of

[17:17] complete in some way. Yeah, it's it's

[17:19] just like anyone on any of these

[17:21] docu-series like even The Vow, the

[17:23] people who get pulled into these groups,

[17:24] they this is what they express is that

[17:27] they they wanted it to be real and

[17:29] authentic so bad Yeah. that their mind

[17:31] overlooked a lot of the red flags.

[17:34] I know just what you mean. Yeah. So,

[17:36] tell me about you you spent time with

[17:39] him, you interact with him maybe I don't

[17:41] know almost 10 times. So, what were the

[17:43] things you started to see that were

[17:44] mismatches for you?

[17:46] Yeah.

[17:48] Well, you know, I want to preface this

[17:49] by saying that as you kind of opened up

[17:51] with this is totally not something I

[17:53] would normally do.

[17:55] But

[17:56] yeah, I my spiritual path is modeled

[17:59] after Jesus.

[18:00] And one of the things Jesus was known

[18:03] for was calling out hypocrisy

[18:05] and the damage that spiritual hypocrisy

[18:08] causes to people, uh specifically the

[18:09] Pharisees, right?

[18:11] And so that I know that there's a place

[18:12] for this, but I kind of like to stay in

[18:14] my lane. I'm I'm used to this uh kind of

[18:18] uh internet world where you just get

[18:20] criticism all the time and I've just

[18:21] learned to ignore it and and tune it

[18:23] out. So, it would it would take a lot

[18:25] for me to want to publicly call somebody

[18:27] out like this. But

[18:30] having sat with this issue for uh 6

[18:33] years now

[18:34] and especially what's come to light

[18:36] recently

[18:37] there's just been such a conviction on

[18:39] my heart that this this is important to

[18:41] expose

[18:43] the predators in the spiritual world

[18:45] because

[18:46] as a spiritual teacher myself, it it

[18:48] truly breaks my heart to see people like

[18:51] you see on on The Vow and these other

[18:52] documentaries who are so

[18:54] well-intentioned

[18:56] and they truly want to grow and they're

[18:57] so zealous, but there's just a little

[18:59] bit of naivete there. And then that's

[19:01] that little bit of naivete or blindness

[19:04] is just weaponized against them to abuse

[19:07] the living hell out of them and then

[19:09] people end up being

[19:11] soured and disenfranchised from

[19:12] spirituality at all.

[19:14] And it's very much what I witnessed in

[19:15] Christianity. You know, Christianity,

[19:17] growing up in that religion,

[19:19] it it's like growing up in a cult. It's

[19:21] really not any different. There's a

[19:22] certain way you're allowed to think, and

[19:24] you can't step outside of those

[19:25] boundaries. And if you do,

[19:27] uh the fangs come out, and the claws

[19:28] come out.

[19:30] And so, I have a soft spot for that cuz

[19:32] I experienced a lot of that in religion.

[19:34] And the way that I've seen

[19:36] in in this group, Bentinho's group,

[19:39] spiritual teachings and truths

[19:41] weaponized for harm and abuse is second

[19:44] to nothing, maybe outside of Keith

[19:46] Raniere and NXIVM.

[19:48] And so, it's clear to me that

[19:51] I had this encounter with him because

[19:53] this needs to come to light and be

[19:54] exposed. What was the thing that like

[19:57] Where did this cross the line for you?

[19:58] Like, what was the moment that you

[20:00] thought,

[20:01] I guess,

[20:03] me being quiet doesn't match my values

[20:05] of aspiring to be more like Jesus. Like,

[20:08] what was that moment for you?

[20:10] Yeah, it it's a tough um

[20:13] it's a tough line to walk because my

[20:16] message is all about love and unity and

[20:18] service to others and the Jesus way, as

[20:20] I call it. Love God with all your heart,

[20:22] love your neighbor as yourself. And so,

[20:25] being fierce sometimes is necessary and

[20:27] is loving when, again, harm and danger

[20:30] needs to be exposed if there's a

[20:33] a fox in the henhouse. You know, the fox

[20:35] needs to be exposed and removed from the

[20:37] henhouse. And that's loving to the

[20:39] creatures in the henhouse. And I see it

[20:41] very much like that. It's nothing

[20:43] personal against anybody. It's just that

[20:46] um as a spiritual teacher, I feel a

[20:47] certain sense of obligation to at least

[20:50] give people my perspective on

[20:52] beings that I consider to be truly

[20:54] dangerous. And there's not many people I

[20:57] would put in that category. I've

[20:59] over the last 6 years of my career, I've

[21:01] met basically every big-name spiritual

[21:04] influencer there is.

[21:06] And it's been uh a catalyst for me

[21:09] because the vast majority of them were

[21:12] majorly disappointing to meet in person.

[21:15] In that the character of the person was

[21:17] nothing like the presentation on the

[21:18] stage.

[21:20] And I've gotten used to that. I've come

[21:21] to expect that a little more than I did

[21:23] when I started. But there's few people

[21:26] that I would say are truly dangerous.

[21:29] And I would put Bentinho in that rare

[21:32] category.

[21:35] Yeah, I mean

[21:37] if my understanding of Jesus is correct,

[21:39] I mean he was quite a revolutionary and

[21:40] a [ __ ] stirrer and didn't take things

[21:43] lying down, so. Absolutely. Good on you.

[21:46] Yeah, thank you. Let's dive in. Okay, so

[21:48] tell me about the things that you

[21:50] what were the things you started to see

[21:51] that really concerned you?

[21:54] Yeah, so the first meeting we had was he

[21:56] invited me to a cigar lounge in Boulder.

[21:59] And that was our first meeting and it

[22:01] was it was very it was a very strange

[22:04] encounter for me.

[22:05] But you know, you're meeting somebody

[22:06] you've you've looked up to and and

[22:08] admired for a few years, so there's

[22:10] a bit of nerves and you're not sure like

[22:12] how the interaction's going to go. So

[22:13] that was part of that was there.

[22:15] But first thing when I walk in, you

[22:18] know,

[22:19] he greets me and then he gives me um

[22:20] like a cigar case he had bought me and I

[22:22] think some three cigars to go in it.

[22:25] I was like, "Wow, thank you, man."

[22:27] And I'm wondering like

[22:28] I wonder why this guy I've never had

[22:30] somebody kind of go out of their way,

[22:31] especially not somebody who has

[22:33] notoriety, you know,

[22:35] want to establish a relationship with

[22:37] me.

[22:38] But again, I thought it was a

[22:38] manifestation and so it felt really

[22:40] good. One thing. So at this point he was

[22:42] a bigger deal than you, I guess, in the

[22:44] social media world. Okay, yeah.

[22:45] >> I think I had um

[22:46] 20 to 30k subscribers on YouTube when I

[22:49] moved to Colorado and I want to say he

[22:52] probably had like 80, 90, something like

[22:54] that. So I had established um some

[22:56] momentum online, but was still on the

[22:58] come up for sure.

[23:00] And so So sat down and um smoked cigars

[23:02] and I'm excited to get into the the

[23:04] metaphysics of the law of one and all

[23:06] the spiritual teachings we love and

[23:08] um he seemed like apprehensive to talk

[23:10] about anything overtly spiritual. So we

[23:13] kind of

[23:14] uh

[23:15] exchanged small talk for a while and

[23:17] then we talked a little bit about

[23:19] some of the um

[23:21] aspects of the law of one's cosmology,

[23:23] but none of these spiritual teachings.

[23:25] And so I was like, "Okay, that's cool.

[23:26] We can just talk about planets and

[23:28] galaxies or whatever." So it was kind of

[23:30] a weird conversation. He was He was

[23:32] being um

[23:33] I don't know how to describe his

[23:35] behavior. It was just strange to me.

[23:37] It's like he's he's there, but he's not

[23:39] there. There's like a dissociation.

[23:41] Maybe.

[23:43] But in any case, um I had never smoked a

[23:44] cigar before. So I got extremely sick

[23:48] because he didn't give me any advice on

[23:49] like, "Here's how you smoke a cigar."

[23:50] Don't inhale it. Yeah, yeah. So I was

[23:52] inhaling it, right? And I got super sick

[23:55] and I spent um

[23:57] like an hour in the Wendy's across the

[23:58] street just drinking a soda cuz I

[24:00] apparently sugar helps get the tobacco

[24:02] out.

[24:03] So that was like another little warning

[24:04] sign from the universe. I was left, you

[24:06] know, nauseated like to the point of

[24:09] vomiting after our first meeting. Uh

[24:11] missed that sign.

[24:13] And then it was The next one was the

[24:14] dinner. So somebody in the group had a

[24:16] birthday dinner

[24:18] and Corey had invited me to that. And so

[24:20] I showed up and there was probably like

[24:22] eight to 10 people there.

[24:24] And that's where I met Silvana. And they

[24:25] had Somebody had invited her. I think

[24:27] Corey invited her.

[24:29] And so we had this dinner and do you

[24:31] want me to go into the story of the

[24:33] Describe Silvana for me as well because

[24:34] Silvana will be talking to us. I just

[24:36] wanted to get your your perception of

[24:37] her at that point. Yeah. So Silvana is

[24:40] uh from Colombia

[24:41] and she was working at Gaia at the time.

[24:44] She was a like a front desk

[24:45] representative at Gaia. So I think

[24:47] that's how

[24:48] they knew some people from Gaia that

[24:50] connected them with her. I don't know.

[24:53] But so um I'm just getting a feel for

[24:55] everybody and I'm kind of keeping to

[24:56] myself and again Bentinho's behaving

[24:58] very weirdly.

[25:00] Um

[25:01] not at all like his online persona. What

[25:03] do you mean weirdly, though?

[25:04] Like very boyish, very uh

[25:07] goofy and which it it's fine to be

[25:09] goofy, but

[25:11] this is a this is something that I've

[25:13] talked with Keelan and Jaclyn and Jade

[25:15] about.

[25:16] He he presents this aura of being ex-

[25:18] extremely enlightened, right? I'm in the

[25:20] non-dual state. And then they'll say

[25:22] that he'll behave like kind of like a

[25:23] child. And they'll go, "Oh, look, it's

[25:26] he's so innocent. His child His inner

[25:27] child's coming out."

[25:29] But that's not how I experienced his his

[25:31] childlikeness.

[25:33] It was very uh it's like crude, it's

[25:35] crass, it's very sexual. Like I went to

[25:38] the bathroom and we had these like paper

[25:40] napkins and there was like a like

[25:42] crayons on the table I think they were

[25:43] drawing with and he drew like a huge

[25:45] dick on my my menu

[25:48] when I came back and

[25:49] I was just like, "Haha."

[25:51] And I'm like, "This is uh this is

[25:53] interesting."

[25:54] By the way, Renier did the same thing.

[25:57] Really? Yeah, constant sexual jokes.

[25:59] Yes.

[26:00] And I pushed it aside for a long time.

[26:03] Cuz I I was holding a picture of him in

[26:05] my mind

[26:07] that I was really attached to.

[26:09] And I was punished if I didn't hold that

[26:10] picture. Yes. And so

[26:13] it took me a while to like finally

[26:14] integrate like, "Oh,

[26:16] like he's a little perv." Yes, exactly.

[26:19] There was a pervy-ness to it, not at all

[26:21] a childlike innocence.

[26:23] And um this continued as I hung out with

[26:25] him more.

[26:27] When we had that that was the same night

[26:28] as the hot tub incident. Yeah, tell me

[26:30] about that, too. Yeah, so

[26:33] Corey and Bentinho invite Silvana and I

[26:35] over to Corey's house in um I think it's

[26:37] in Louisville.

[26:38] And it's this really nice big house that

[26:40] her family owns and it's where Bentinho

[26:43] and her and the their group would hang

[26:44] out all the time. So we went over that

[26:46] night and it was just the four of us

[26:48] and um

[26:49] it's very quickly it's starting to get a

[26:51] little risqué. They're offering us

[26:53] drinks and I didn't drink. I still don't

[26:55] drink, so I declined that, but

[26:58] they the three of them started to drink

[27:00] and then like let's get in the hot tub

[27:02] and as soon as we get in the hot tub

[27:03] it's like let's play truth or dare.

[27:05] High school.

[27:06] >> That's what he says. Yeah.

[27:09] Like I haven't played that since high

[27:10] school. And we're like we're in our 30s,

[27:12] you know.

[27:13] Um so I'm like I think I know where this

[27:15] is going.

[27:16] And it might have been the first or

[27:18] second truth or dare. It was Corey's

[27:21] turn.

[27:22] Um Bentinho dared Corey to kiss me.

[27:25] And then when it was my turn

[27:28] Ben was looking at me and kind of

[27:29] winking. Like make Silvana kiss me,

[27:31] right?

[27:32] And I think he thought I was going to

[27:34] play along, but as soon as I saw what he

[27:35] was doing, I was like, oh, I'm not

[27:38] playing this game, dude.

[27:39] So I kept daring him to do like stupid

[27:42] embarrassing things. Like um pull your

[27:45] pants down and waddle around the pool

[27:46] like a penguin and stuff like that. And

[27:48] he got so he would get so mad and we

[27:50] were making a joke about it, but he was

[27:52] actually like upset that I wasn't

[27:54] advancing the evening like he wanted to.

[27:57] And so we probably stayed up till 2:00

[27:59] a.m. in this weird kind of sexual

[28:01] tension between the four of us. To me it

[28:04] felt like Corey wanted to hook up with

[28:06] me, Bentinho wanted to hook up with

[28:07] Silvana and they were kind of teaming up

[28:10] to help each other do that. But after

[28:13] listening to Jade and Keelan and

[28:15] Jacqueline's stories about them,

[28:18] I didn't know any of this aspect of

[28:19] Bentinho and Corey's relationship, but

[28:23] I think Corey was trying to use me to

[28:25] make him jealous.

[28:27] Cuz she was she was very sweet like

[28:28] everybody says. She's got a a great

[28:30] personality, great energy about her.

[28:32] Very friendly, very playful.

[28:34] And then of course as we're in the hot

[28:36] tub

[28:37] they're trying to get intimate with us.

[28:39] So I was like, okay, I know what's going

[28:40] on here. I'm going to I'm going to dip

[28:41] out and go home. I felt weird about it

[28:43] and I was really disappointed in my

[28:45] meeting Bentinho. Like I just had

[28:47] accepted at that point, this guy is not

[28:49] at all like I thought he was.

[28:51] All through the night,

[28:52] it's like

[28:54] it's a sexual joke, that's what she

[28:56] said, you know, that kind of stuff.

[28:59] Every other thing out of his mouth.

[29:01] And I'm like, where's the innocence in

[29:03] this? I don't see any innocence here.

[29:04] This is crude, it's crass, it's overtly

[29:07] sexual, it's pervy.

[29:09] So, I decided to go home. Um Silvana had

[29:11] a couple beers or something like that,

[29:13] so she decided to stay there. They

[29:15] offered us to stay the night, and

[29:17] because I hadn't drank, I decided to go

[29:18] home. And Silvana decided to crash at

[29:21] the down in the downstairs bedroom.

[29:24] And I think it must have been

[29:25] like 1:00 or 2:00 a.m. when I left.

[29:28] And

[29:29] so I wake up the next morning with we'd

[29:32] all been in the same WhatsApp group. So,

[29:34] Silvana and I had had each other's

[29:36] numbers through the WhatsApp group.

[29:38] And I wake up to a text that was sent at

[29:41] like 3:30 in the morning, and she was

[29:44] just saying like, "Hey, can you please

[29:45] come pick me up? I don't feel

[29:46] comfortable here."

[29:48] And so, I texted back in the morning,

[29:50] "Are are you okay? Is everything all

[29:51] right?" And she said something like,

[29:53] "Yeah, I'm okay, but last night

[29:56] uh

[29:56] something really

[29:58] bad happened last night. Uh let's meet

[30:00] for lunch and I'll tell you about it."

[30:02] So, her and I met for lunch, I think it

[30:04] might have been the next day.

[30:05] And she told me everything that

[30:07] happened.

[30:08] Which was that she went to sleep

[30:10] downstairs as Corey had offered her to,

[30:12] and

[30:14] sometime after that, while she was

[30:15] trying to fall asleep, she heard a knock

[30:17] at her door, and it's Bentinho.

[30:19] And he says, "Hey, can I come in? And

[30:21] maybe I can lay with you and we can talk

[30:23] for a while."

[30:24] And she's like, "Uh no, I don't feel

[30:26] comfortable with that." And then she

[30:28] locks the door.

[30:30] And then she said that Bentinho's like,

[30:32] "Oh, why are you locking the door? Are

[30:33] you are you afraid of me or something?

[30:35] You don't need to be afraid."

[30:36] And she was like, "Well, I don't I don't

[30:38] even know you. I met you today, and

[30:40] you're outside my door at 3:00 a.m., you

[30:41] know."

[30:42] So, he says basically, "Well, I'm going

[30:45] to be right out here in the lounge area.

[30:47] There's like a pool table and stuff. I'm

[30:49] going to be out here in case you change

[30:50] your mind and we can cuddle and stuff."

[30:52] So, she that's when she texted me like,

[30:54] "Can you come get me?" And I was fast

[30:55] asleep already.

[30:57] So, then she decided to send No, sorry.

[31:00] Then he sent her, as far as memory

[31:02] serves,

[31:03] this long text the next day, which all

[31:05] the women have experienced this text.

[31:08] This is the I can make you enlightened

[31:10] if you let me have sex with you and all

[31:11] that. And Sylvana's a very um fiery,

[31:15] powerful Latina, and she she was not

[31:17] happy about that. Like, "Oh, you think

[31:19] you're going to manipulate me, dude?"

[31:21] And so, she writes back this, you know,

[31:23] scathing rebuke of him basically and

[31:25] says, "I don't want anything to do with

[31:26] you."

[31:27] And it was a couple weeks after that,

[31:30] after hanging out with Sylvana a few

[31:31] more times, I was already set that I'm

[31:33] not going to be part of this group, but

[31:35] something in me was still curious to

[31:37] stick around a little bit longer to cuz

[31:39] it was it was such an enigma to me, this

[31:42] guy in this group and these women with

[31:44] him. It's like

[31:45] to me, I was I was embarrassed for him

[31:48] of his behavior. I just want to go back

[31:50] to what was the what was the curiosity?

[31:52] Cuz like that that sounds pretty

[31:53] disturbing. And by the way, I have now

[31:55] read the text

[31:56] Okay.

[31:57] >> that he sent her. Yeah.

[31:58] >> It's pretty [ __ ] up. It's awful, yeah.

[32:00] It is like complete [ __ ]

[32:03] I mean, the honest thing would have just

[32:04] been to say like, "I'm desperate to have

[32:06] sex with you."

[32:06] >> Yeah.

[32:07] >> That's one line. Yeah. Could have done

[32:09] it. So, but I think what we'll do is I

[32:11] will

[32:12] I'll have um

[32:14] I'll probably have Sylvana read that

[32:15] Yeah. in another episode. I think that's

[32:17] more for her to read.

[32:18] >> Yeah.

[32:19] So,

[32:21] I'm trying to understand the curiosity.

[32:23] Not as a trick question. Like, I'm

[32:24] literally trying to think, what what is

[32:26] it that because you've seen things that

[32:28] are are mismatched. Mhm. But is there

[32:30] some kind of a puzzle that you can't

[32:31] solve in your mind? Is that why you want

[32:33] to still figure it out? Definitely. Huh?

[32:36] And the main question that I couldn't

[32:38] figure out

[32:41] was is this guy an absolute intentional

[32:45] charlatan, you know, snake in the grass,

[32:47] negative polarity being pretending to be

[32:50] a positive polarity being and fooling

[32:52] all these people

[32:53] or is he just a deeply unintegrated very

[32:55] intelligent guy whose ego has gotten the

[32:58] better of him and convinced him that

[33:00] he's enlightened and he's an alien and

[33:01] stuff. And I really didn't know which

[33:03] one it was. Let's just go back to that

[33:05] for a second because because from what I

[33:07] what I heard

[33:09] there's this weird like attraction but

[33:11] also wanting to like take you down going

[33:14] on, right? So explain that to me.

[33:16] Yeah, that's one of the weird enigmas.

[33:18] Uh

[33:20] You get love bombed like crazy when you

[33:23] join a cult. This is classic cult

[33:25] behavior. And I got love bombed really

[33:27] hard and I was I was in the love bombing

[33:29] phase still when I left. I think it was

[33:32] it was less than two months that I was

[33:34] kind of hanging out with them on a

[33:36] regular basis.

[33:37] And um

[33:38] remind me what the previous question

[33:40] was.

[33:41] The I'm trying to trying to figure out

[33:43] what the puzzle the puzzle that you're

[33:44] trying to figure out. Yes.

[33:46] And so what was interesting is when it

[33:47] was just he and I, which we had a lot of

[33:49] one-on-one time smoking cigars and

[33:51] stuff.

[33:52] Um

[33:53] he it was like we're good buddies. We

[33:55] have a good time. Like he seems to want

[33:57] to be my friend and

[33:58] uh has respect for me and all of that.

[34:00] And then as soon as a woman or women are

[34:03] around it's this totally different

[34:05] version of him comes out and it's

[34:07] constant gay jokes. Like all his jokes

[34:09] are coming at me

[34:10] and um

[34:12] nicknames and stuff like that. And it

[34:14] was so obvious

[34:16] that I almost thought about

[34:18] just call kind of calling him out and

[34:20] being like, "Bro, what are you so

[34:22] threatened by me for? Like a gay joke

[34:25] every 5 minutes? Like

[34:28] what do I make you feel so insecure

[34:30] about, dude?"

[34:31] But I'm still reading the room and like

[34:34] I'm like maybe he's just being, you

[34:35] know, like that part of your mind is

[34:36] gaslighting you a little bit.

[34:37] >> Do you do you still have him a little

[34:38] bit on the pedestal in some part of your

[34:40] mind? Probably a little bit.

[34:41] >> Yeah.

[34:42] But, not so much. I'm I'm very much like

[34:44] the radar is up at this point. So, now I

[34:46] started to kind of um

[34:49] put some feelers out in different ways

[34:51] with him to try to get a read on that

[34:53] question of, is this guy like a true

[34:55] intentional charlatan or just super

[34:58] deregulated?

[34:59] And one of the things I did was try to

[35:02] eye gaze with him.

[35:03] Because another one of the phenomenon is

[35:06] when women are around, he makes gay

[35:07] jokes at me nonstop. And then he tries

[35:10] to eye gaze with all the women.

[35:12] And he would just get in these really

[35:14] awkward, you know,

[35:16] Explain explain the eye gazing. Cuz some

[35:19] of my my audience is probably like,

[35:20] what's eye gazing?

[35:20] >> Yeah.

[35:22] I don't honestly know. It's ne- it's

[35:23] never been something that I've like

[35:24] done. I've done it a few times with like

[35:26] my partner and all that. But, uh in

[35:28] their group it's it's very it was very

[35:31] common thing. And when I look back now,

[35:33] I'm I'm quite certain it's some kind of

[35:35] manipulation tactic from Bentinho. He's

[35:38] trying to get into them in some way.

[35:40] But, basically, you know, we're all

[35:41] sitting in like a circle by the fire and

[35:44] stuff. And if he locks gazes with a

[35:46] woman, he'll just kind of like the eyes

[35:48] go kind of soft. And he just kind of has

[35:50] like a half smile. And then they're just

[35:53] staring at each other. And him and Corey

[35:54] would do it a lot. I think I saw him and

[35:56] Jacqueline do it once.

[35:58] He tried to do it with Silvana. And so,

[36:00] I'm like, let me see if he'll eye gaze

[36:01] with me.

[36:02] And so, we're talking and then I'll

[36:04] just,

[36:05] you know, kind of give him the let's

[36:06] gaze, dude.

[36:08] And every time he turned away.

[36:10] And I I I probably tried this five times

[36:12] in a row.

[36:13] And he did not want any part of it. And

[36:15] I was like, okay, that's not a good

[36:16] sign.

[36:18] He's eager to eye gaze with the women,

[36:19] but doesn't want to eye gaze with me.

[36:21] So, that's a big red flag.

[36:23] Is it I mean, I understand in principle

[36:26] that eye gazing could maybe be a way to

[36:28] like connect on a deeper level.

[36:31] I get that. But it sounds to me like an

[36:33] intimidation technique of some kind.

[36:36] Definitely.

[36:36] >> Yeah, yeah. I think so.

[36:37] >> To break them down.

[36:39] Yeah, I think he's doing all kinds of

[36:41] psychic stuff in his mind, sowing

[36:43] thought forms or whatever. Black magic

[36:45] stuff.

[36:45] >> that he has psychic ability?

[36:48] I mean, I think we all do, so I think

[36:50] even just any normal person holding a

[36:53] really detrimental thought, like we can

[36:54] all kind of feel that. There's a psychic

[36:56] energy to negativity and I think he's

[36:59] probably very privy to those kind of

[37:00] things. And he's doing some kind of

[37:03] voodoo when he's eye-gazing.

[37:05] >> Okay.

[37:06] But he couldn't hold your gaze at all.

[37:07] >> He wouldn't, yeah.

[37:09] That's interesting.

[37:10] Yeah. Why do you think that?

[37:13] The one obvious answer would be

[37:16] the eye-gazing is a kind of um

[37:18] sexual advancement or a way to get into

[37:23] the woman's sexual energy a bit and and

[37:25] have intimacy so that they feel more

[37:26] comfortable having sex later with him,

[37:28] right? And if he doesn't want to have

[37:29] sex with me, why would he eye-gaze with

[37:31] me? That's the only conclusion I can

[37:33] come to.

[37:34] >> Interesting. By the way,

[37:35] for the audience, Bonnie's here in the

[37:37] audience as well. Bonnie and I have an

[37:38] allergy to eye-gazing.

[37:40] The whole [ __ ] concept, a complete

[37:42] allergy.

[37:44] Okay.

[37:44] >> I get it. Okay, so let's let's let's

[37:46] keep going. So so you try to eye-gaze

[37:47] with him, he looks away.

[37:49] Yeah.

[37:51] The next thing that I did was I started

[37:53] asking him questions.

[37:54] So we had a

[37:56] another interesting interaction we had

[37:57] one night was

[37:59] again, I'd started reading A Course in

[38:00] Miracles a year or two prior to that and

[38:03] it's a super long text, so it you know,

[38:06] took me many years to get through it.

[38:08] So I'm still reading it like daily and

[38:11] I'm just in love with this text. It's

[38:12] very much the Jesus way. It's all about

[38:14] forgiveness and seeing the Christ in

[38:16] your brother and stuff like that.

[38:19] So I'm like, oh, I'm sure Bentinho would

[38:20] love this text, right? Why not?

[38:22] And I'm reading it and there was this

[38:24] one quote that just like stood out and

[38:26] and stunned me. It was just a beautiful

[38:27] quote. And um

[38:30] I think it's let us be still an instant

[38:32] and forget all things we ever learned.

[38:33] And it's about entering stillness and

[38:35] getting out of the mind. And I'm like,

[38:36] oh, I bet he'll love this quote. So, I

[38:38] was like, Ben, check out this quote,

[38:39] man. And I read it to him.

[38:41] And uh he was like totally unmoved and

[38:44] was kind of like, yeah, A C I M is kind

[38:45] of like a

[38:46] a fourth density text. I'm more into

[38:48] like fifth and sixth density stuff.

[38:50] Something like that. And kind of shirked

[38:52] it off. And it's like A C I M is one of

[38:54] the most highly regarded spiritual text

[38:56] of all time.

[38:57] So, like there's like spiritual [ __ ]

[38:59] measuring going on here. Totally. Yeah,

[39:01] exactly. That's very much what it felt

[39:03] like.

[39:03] >> Yeah. Um

[39:05] So, I started asking him questions to

[39:07] see what answers that might elicit. And

[39:11] one that I asked him, I was like, hey

[39:12] Ben, do you suffer anymore since you're

[39:15] enlightened, you know?

[39:17] And he gave the classic answer of I

[39:19] experience pain, but I don't suffer.

[39:24] And uh it might have been the next day,

[39:26] the next time I was there.

[39:28] I walk in from the patio and Bentinho

[39:31] sitting on the couch next to Corey and

[39:33] she's consoling him. And he's like, you

[39:35] know, hands in his face.

[39:37] And he's like super

[39:39] down about something. And she's talking

[39:42] to him like a almost like a baby, like,

[39:44] it's okay, Ben. And I'm kind of watching

[39:46] like, is that is he suffering right now?

[39:48] And he's like complaining about

[39:50] something, like, no, it just it's not

[39:52] going to work. Something like that. And

[39:54] she's rubbing his back, it'll be okay.

[39:56] And she's trying to make him feel

[39:57] better.

[39:58] And I just thought

[40:00] I know suffering when I see it.

[40:02] That's suffering.

[40:04] So, he either lied to me or he's lying

[40:06] to himself.

[40:08] But both options are bad.

[40:10] Jacqueline remembers this moment

[40:11] clearly. She was Bentinho's primary

[40:13] partner.

[40:14] Corey had only very recently entered the

[40:16] picture sexually while Jacqueline had

[40:18] flown home for 2 weeks to be with her

[40:19] children before returning [music] to the

[40:21] group. And by the way, for all you judgy

[40:23] people out there giving Jaclyn [ __ ] she

[40:26] was separated. She had joint custody, 2

[40:29] weeks on and 2 weeks off. So, just

[40:30] [music] calm down, all right?

[40:32] All right, I digress. When Aaron watched

[40:34] Jaclyn's interview, the two began

[40:36] comparing notes. Suddenly, pieces that

[40:38] hadn't fully made sense started coming

[40:40] together.

[40:41] Jaclyn had arrived in Colorado and was

[40:43] also witnessing Cory rubbing Bentinho's

[40:44] [music] back and Cory was reassuring him

[40:47] that he was good, that he was innocent.

[40:50] It all happened immediately after

[40:51] Silvana sent the message rejecting him,

[40:53] telling him [music] she wanted nothing

[40:54] to do with him.

[40:56] Part of Bentinho's spiral was fear about

[40:58] what Silvana could say or expose.

[41:01] But Jaclyn believes the deeper force

[41:02] driving it was the rejection itself.

[41:05] When Bentinho became fixated on someone

[41:07] romantically, especially someone who

[41:09] resisted or turned him down, he became

[41:11] obsessive and emotionally unhinged.

[41:14] In the aftermath, he latched onto a song

[41:15] Silvana had once shared with him and

[41:17] played it obsessively for months. In the

[41:19] monastery in Bussum, in their group

[41:21] lounges, on his phone in cafes,

[41:23] everywhere they went. A Gloria Estefan

[41:26] track [music] looping endlessly.

[41:28] The image is difficult to reconcile with

[41:30] the persona he projected publicly, the

[41:32] enlightened [music] spiritual master,

[41:34] devastated by rejection,

[41:36] lying in Cory's lap,

[41:38] being comforted like a child.

[41:41] Yeah.

[41:43] Yeah.

[41:44] Just to go Well, are there any other

[41:46] incidents that that gave you concern?

[41:50] So, the last night that I hung out with

[41:52] their group

[41:54] was the night I met Jaclyn.

[41:56] And he had spoken about her, I think, of

[41:58] oh, one of my girlfriends who lives in

[42:00] Oregon is going to come out here, you

[42:02] know, next week. And so, she shows up

[42:04] and

[42:05] it was like maybe four or five of us

[42:07] hanging out. Bentinho and I and like

[42:10] three women, I think, Cory, Jaclyn, and

[42:11] maybe one other.

[42:13] And I was kind of dissociated myself at

[42:16] that point from being there because I

[42:18] had I'd figured out this is a clearly a

[42:20] cult. This guy's clearly a charlatan.

[42:23] How do I make my exit, you know?

[42:25] And so I'm hanging out with them and

[42:28] we were smoking cigars outside and

[42:32] he I showed him a comedian, a British

[42:35] comedian, on YouTube who does like

[42:39] freestyle rapping

[42:40] to the audience and he'll ask for words

[42:42] from the audience and then he'll rap do

[42:44] like a whole rap on all the words and

[42:46] it's really cool and it's very funny and

[42:47] stuff.

[42:48] So I show Bentinho and he gets obsessed

[42:50] with it like right away.

[42:52] And he's like, "I want to learn how to

[42:53] do that."

[42:55] And this is kind of the boyishness that

[42:56] would come out often.

[42:58] So he starts to practice. I think he

[43:00] asked me to like beatbox for him. So I

[43:02] would I would beatbox and he would like

[43:04] try to rap.

[43:06] And he did this for like like an hour or

[43:08] like forever just trying to come up with

[43:10] freestyles and it was really bad. Like

[43:12] he's never done this before so like

[43:14] anybody it's not an art form you're

[43:16] going to succeed at right away.

[43:18] But he keeps doing it and the girls come

[43:19] out and he's trying to do it and then we

[43:21] go inside and he's still trying to do it

[43:23] and this is when I started to

[43:25] kind of feel embarrassed for him. Um

[43:28] it was just such immature behavior again

[43:31] being crass all the time freestyle

[43:33] rapping

[43:35] like embarrassingly bad freestyle

[43:37] rapping back to sex jokes running around

[43:39] being goofy and

[43:42] I was just thinking like

[43:44] I could have never imagined that this is

[43:47] the guy

[43:48] behind the scenes that I saw on YouTube

[43:50] for 2 years. I mean they couldn't be

[43:51] more night and day different. And so

[43:55] that was the night I decided, "Okay, I'm

[43:57] out and I'm going to send my reflection

[44:00] to him now."

[44:02] Had he given you reflections during your

[44:03] time there?

[44:03] >> No. No. No, cuz I was still in the love

[44:06] bombing phase when I was there.

[44:08] Uh I hadn't entered that second phase

[44:10] yet where they know, "Okay, we have this

[44:11] person. Now let's

[44:13] uh turn the claws against them a little

[44:14] bit." And uh so I got out at a good

[44:17] time.

[44:18] But I just thought because of the gay

[44:19] jokes and all the different signs that

[44:22] he was insecure around me,

[44:24] I don't know if it's cuz we we both are

[44:25] love one teachers, we're the same age,

[44:27] I'm like 1 year younger than him.

[44:29] Um there's a lot of similarities and

[44:31] crossover, but

[44:32] because I could tell he was somehow

[44:35] threatened by me in some way, I decided

[44:37] I'm probably the only person who can

[44:40] maybe give him a reflection that he

[44:42] might listen to.

[44:44] And you know, part of my my spiritual

[44:46] path is I don't want to put anybody out

[44:48] of my heart. I truly want to feel love

[44:50] for everybody in terms of the essence of

[44:53] what they are is good. Maybe they've

[44:55] been corrupted and there's a lot of

[44:57] distortions, but I'm going to love the

[44:58] essence of everybody. And so I love this

[45:00] guy and I want him to be free from this

[45:03] psychological game he's playing with

[45:05] himself and everybody. So maybe I can

[45:07] offer him a reflection.

[45:09] And so I just sent him a long text

[45:11] explaining mostly everything I've said

[45:13] in this interview of here's how I see

[45:16] you, like meeting you was a true

[45:17] disappointment,

[45:18] but more than anything else, like what

[45:20] you tried to do to Silvana

[45:22] is disgusting and reprehensible.

[45:24] And

[45:25] no one who is truly of the light would

[45:27] ever do something like that. And so I

[45:30] truly hope that, you know, you repent

[45:32] from this kind of behavior.

[45:36] What was the response? No response. No,

[45:38] to this day?

[45:40] Yes, as far as I remember that he didn't

[45:41] respond.

[45:43] But Corey did. So this is something else

[45:45] I learned from, I think Jaclyn, that

[45:48] when people leave the group, Corey tends

[45:50] to play damage control and try to keep

[45:52] on a friendly relational basis with them

[45:55] so they don't get too soured and start

[45:57] speaking out against the group or

[45:58] Bentinho.

[45:59] So she stayed in contact with me for

[46:03] probably like the next 2 years off and

[46:04] on on WhatsApp. She would check in and

[46:06] how are you doing and would love to see

[46:08] you sometime.

[46:09] So, um I think that that was why he

[46:12] didn't respond. He just kind of said,

[46:13] "Hey, Corey, take care of this for me."

[46:16] Were you around when he wanted

[46:20] Silvana to sign the NDA or was it him or

[46:22] Corey wanted her to sign the NDA? I

[46:24] think he

[46:26] from my memory, I think he

[46:27] told us both to sign the NDA the night

[46:30] in the hot tub.

[46:32] Oh. He had sent it to us in a link in

[46:34] the WhatsApp group.

[46:36] So, that was before the him outside her

[46:39] door. Oh, yes.

[46:40] That was interesting. That's

[46:41] interesting. Yeah. And she didn't sign

[46:43] it.

[46:44] >> She didn't sign it.

[46:44] >> She sniffed it out right away. What was

[46:46] your reaction to the NDA?

[46:48] I didn't think much about it cuz I was

[46:50] naive as well and they have a really

[46:51] good elevator pitch for it. It's like,

[46:53] "Hey, you know, Bentinho is changing the

[46:55] world and there's people that don't like

[46:57] his service to the world and want to

[46:58] shut him down. So, there's people that

[47:00] lie about him and you know, we just need

[47:02] to protect him from that and so, just

[47:04] sign this NDA. Everything will be cool."

[47:06] Do you recall kind of what you were

[47:07] being asked to do? Just that you

[47:08] couldn't talk about anything that

[47:10] happened? Yeah, it was like you can't

[47:12] say anything negative about Bentinho.

[47:14] It's very much the kind of five

[47:15] characteristics of a cult. Mhm. Most of

[47:18] them were covered in that NDA. Uh it's

[47:21] it's definitely like

[47:22] the way that he dissuades people from

[47:25] speaking out about their experience with

[47:27] him cuz once he has that NDA over them,

[47:30] they're going to probably say, "Look,

[47:31] it's probably worth the risk to speak

[47:32] out."

[47:34] So, basically, you can't criticize us

[47:36] >> [clears throat]

[47:37] >> Yeah. for all the [ __ ] we're doing. Yes.

[47:39] I think that her NDA,

[47:41] if I'm correct, was for was the penalty

[47:43] was $100,000, I think.

[47:45] Okay. Do you know what yours I don't.

[47:47] >> No. Something like that.

[47:50] That's just so interesting. I mean,

[47:52] listen, we we signed we signed all kinds

[47:53] of [ __ ] as well.

[47:54] >> Yeah. But what we found out,

[47:56] especially once we, you know, the FBI

[47:58] moved in, like, yeah, none of that

[48:00] shit's enforceable. Yeah. You know, you

[48:02] can't do bad [ __ ] to people

[48:04] and, you know, have an NDA protect you.

[48:07] Yeah. You wouldn't think.

[48:08] Yeah. So,

[48:10] did you have any interaction after that,

[48:12] after you sent that that uh I guess that

[48:14] reflection by text?

[48:16] Not with him.

[48:19] But with Corey? With Corey, yeah.

[48:20] Continuously?

[48:22] No, no, no. Just maybe she reached out

[48:23] maybe two to three times over the next 2

[48:26] years.

[48:27] Um Silvana and I had started a

[48:28] relationship shortly after that. Okay.

[48:31] It was like right around the time that I

[48:33] I think she was there with me when I was

[48:34] crafting my text to him and I let her

[48:36] read it. And um so we were dating at

[48:38] that point and we dated for about a year

[48:42] from that point. So you and when you met

[48:45] Silvana and all of them, you guys you

[48:47] and Silvana were not dating at that

[48:48] point. Yeah, we met at that

[48:49] >> You met at that Oh, that's crazy. Yeah.

[48:52] That's crazy. Yeah.

[48:55] It was quite a um bonding experience for

[48:57] us. We reflected back on it a number of

[49:00] times throughout our relationship.

[49:03] After Corey connects with you

[49:07] a

[49:09] to put you on the spot, I just want to

[49:11] feel this out with you. Yeah. You're

[49:13] quiet for a long time. Mhm. You know,

[49:15] it's it's it's in the past. Yeah. That

[49:18] shit's happened.

[49:20] Does it

[49:22] I guess bother you somewhere inside

[49:24] what happened there? Oh, yeah.

[49:26] >> For years? For years.

[49:27] >> Years.

[49:28] For years I I prayed about it and would

[49:30] ask, "Why did that happen?"

[49:32] That's another primary

[49:34] spiritual practice for me, which comes

[49:36] from the Law of One, which they would

[49:38] call catalyst integration.

[49:40] It's just a fancy way of saying

[49:42] learning your life lessons. So the idea

[49:44] is every experience you have is a

[49:46] catalyst for your growth

[49:48] in one of two directions, positive or

[49:50] negative polarity, depending on how you

[49:52] use the catalyst and what you learn from

[49:54] it. So, everything is a lesson that God

[49:57] is trying to teach you is the idea.

[49:58] And I very much live that way. Like,

[50:00] what does this mean? What is the lesson

[50:01] for me here?

[50:03] So, I prayed about it

[50:04] a number of times of God, why did it Why

[50:06] did you

[50:08] draw me to that experience of meeting

[50:10] him?

[50:10] And the answer that I got was

[50:13] because you're walking a similar path as

[50:15] a spiritual teacher and a Law of One

[50:17] teacher especially.

[50:19] And so, you needed to see an up-close

[50:20] version of what you never want to

[50:22] become.

[50:23] And that made sense for a while because,

[50:26] you know, I grew up again in

[50:26] Christianity and have witnessed

[50:28] countless charlatan ministers and

[50:31] televangelists.

[50:33] Uh my dad has been burned by many of

[50:34] them. Like, it is normal to me

[50:37] that people do these kinds of things

[50:38] that have power in spiritual spaces.

[50:41] So, I thought, well, okay, that makes

[50:43] sense, but I mean, I saw a lot of this

[50:45] already growing up. But, you know, this

[50:46] is a very congruent. Like, again, both

[50:48] Law of One teachers, same age, and all

[50:50] of that. But, I don't I don't feel like

[50:52] I had any real

[50:54] pensioned to be anything like that

[50:56] anyways, but if there was any of that in

[50:58] me, that experience definitely wiped it

[51:00] out.

[51:01] Uh it gave me a shining example of that

[51:04] is what I never want to be or ever

[51:06] become.

[51:07] And so, I I can definitely say that my

[51:10] meeting Bentinho and that whole

[51:12] experience has catalyzed a a strong

[51:15] desire for humility and not to not just

[51:19] not to elevate myself, but not to let

[51:21] even like my viewers and students

[51:22] elevate me the way that Bentinho was so

[51:25] elevated. It's just It's so detrimental

[51:28] when anybody puts a spiritual teacher on

[51:30] a pedestal.

[51:31] Uh I I didn't see how detrimental it was

[51:34] at first, but 6 years into my career

[51:38] having experienced people like Bentinho,

[51:40] I've realized I need to do everything I

[51:42] can to take myself off the pedestal for

[51:45] my followers.

[51:46] Yeah, I mean, I have so many questions.

[51:48] that I'm going to go out of order for

[51:49] some of these questions. So,

[51:51] you know,

[51:52] Bonnie and I have discussed at great

[51:54] length this business of like people

[51:55] having awakenings,

[51:57] but they haven't cleaned out the

[51:59] basements.

[52:00] You know, so so the theory in in my mind

[52:03] is like, you know, people say, "Oh well,

[52:05] wealth makes you a terrible person." And

[52:07] I'm like, "No, Yeah. it just brings out

[52:09] what's there." Yeah. I'm

[52:11] I'm beginning to think that awakening

[52:12] does the same thing. That an awakening

[52:15] gives you access to a lot of power, a

[52:17] lot of charisma, a lot of a lot of a lot

[52:19] of cool stuff,

[52:21] but if you haven't cleaned up your [ __ ]

[52:23] like all the evil stuff comes out as

[52:25] well. Yes.

[52:26] >> That's my current theory.

[52:28] Absolutely right. And I remember that

[52:30] that Bonnie and I were watching Bentinho

[52:32] in the 2015?

[52:35] 2016.

[52:36] And we remember, cuz Bonnie had had a

[52:38] very similar experience,

[52:40] which I'll talk about in the other

[52:41] podcast, I Remember Your Greatness,

[52:44] of of all these other sort of awakening

[52:46] and all this all these explosions going

[52:48] on in her body.

[52:50] And so, as we were watching Bentinho, we

[52:51] were seeing somebody who seemed to be in

[52:53] constant states of bliss. Mhm. Like all

[52:55] these explosions and laughter and all

[52:57] And we were like, "Oh, that's that's

[52:59] what that is." And we couldn't

[53:00] understand

[53:02] that somebody could have that experience

[53:05] and do really evil [ __ ] Yeah. We

[53:07] somehow had that awakening experience

[53:10] tied up with morality.

[53:12] That that meant goodness.

[53:14] Now we're like, "No, that doesn't mean

[53:15] goodness. That's just [ __ ] energy or

[53:17] whatever the [ __ ] that is,

[53:19] but like what you do with it, okay, well

[53:21] that depends." So, which now gets me to

[53:23] the whole

[53:24] service of self

[53:26] versus service to others.

[53:28] I want to clarify one thing because I

[53:30] you know, I hate this the the the the

[53:31] service to others idea.

[53:33] And the reason I hate it um is because

[53:36] in in cults in general, everything is

[53:39] all about you have to be a service to

[53:40] the world, service to others. Basically,

[53:41] you diminish your sense of self

[53:43] completely and you become a nobody

[53:45] because you're so busy in essence

[53:47] serving what the cult leader wants you

[53:48] to serve. Yep. And there's always

[53:49] something. It's the [ __ ] whales, it's

[53:51] the this, it's the climate, it's the

[53:52] whatever, right?

[53:53] So,

[53:55] I'm just saying that because I want to

[53:56] understand the the service to self

[53:59] versus service to others because

[54:02] service to self could be good in the

[54:04] sense of like I need to be connected to

[54:07] myself, to my essence because what if

[54:09] the path to divinity is through me?

[54:12] Not through a statue, not through

[54:14] somebody else. So, I can't abandon

[54:16] myself. So, just quickly without a long

[54:18] long thing, just help me understand

[54:21] uh how you see what I'm saying. Yeah.

[54:23] Yeah, it's it's simple actually.

[54:25] The Law of One teaches this explicitly.

[54:28] Service to others is also service to

[54:30] self.

[54:31] They actually say all service

[54:33] technically is service to self cuz

[54:35] there's only one being in the universe.

[54:37] That's the Law of One.

[54:39] But the positive polarity, which they

[54:41] call the service to others path,

[54:44] is predicated on

[54:46] serving yourself in a way that benefits

[54:49] others. So, what's truly good for you,

[54:52] is the idea, is truly good for everyone.

[54:54] What brings you peace and joy and

[54:56] happiness contributes to everyone else

[54:58] as well.

[55:00] So, service to self would be the

[55:01] opposite. It's service to self at the

[55:03] cost of others. I'm using others to

[55:05] serve myself.

[55:07] Okay.

[55:09] So, service to others is also basically

[55:12] being so aligned with my values,

[55:14] assuming they're good values, that I can

[55:16] help others and help the world as well.

[55:19] Yes. Yes. I would say also like there's

[55:21] a metaphysical component to it that if

[55:23] the universe is built on the principle

[55:26] of unity, and that is the true nature of

[55:28] the universe, then a positively

[55:30] polarized being has to

[55:33] exist in the universe, operate in the

[55:35] universe in a way that reflects that

[55:36] awareness. And so, everything you do

[55:40] towards others

[55:42] uh has to be in some way of service to

[55:44] them, which really just means do no

[55:46] harm, right? As long as you're doing no

[55:48] harm, you're being of service to others

[55:50] in a sense.

[55:51] But, whatever is truly good for others

[55:53] is also good for you, right? As I bless

[55:55] others, I bless myself. So, it's not

[55:57] this let me negate myself and only help

[55:59] others. Uh

[56:01] Ra calls that martyrdom in the Law of

[56:03] One and says that martyrdom is not a

[56:05] path to fourth density. It's a

[56:07] distortion of love. Love would never ask

[56:09] you to do something that harms you to

[56:12] benefit another.

[56:13] On the on the positive polarity,

[56:15] everybody wins together is the idea. So,

[56:17] that right there negates the Keith

[56:19] Raniere's and the Bentinho's, right?

[56:20] Where it's this hierarchy where

[56:22] everything ultimately just benefits the

[56:23] leader and everyone else is getting

[56:25] abused and controlled. Um that is the

[56:27] antithesis of the positive polarity.

[56:30] Okay.

[56:31] I want to get back to that in a second,

[56:32] but you said

[56:34] uh

[56:35] I was told I was given an example of

[56:37] what I did not want to be.

[56:39] Those were not your exact words. Mhm.

[56:41] So, just

[56:42] what do you what do you when you look at

[56:44] Bentinho now at at the at who he is

[56:46] versus who you thought he was, what what

[56:48] do you see?

[56:50] I mean, in plain language. Yeah. Well, I

[56:52] talked to Jaclyn and Keelan about this

[56:54] quite a bit. I still

[56:57] I don't think I know for sure the answer

[56:59] to that original question of is he

[57:01] intentional or not, but based on what

[57:04] the Law of One says about again, the way

[57:06] that positive versus negative beings

[57:09] behave. Uh Bentinho checks every box of

[57:12] a service-to-self entity.

[57:15] And that's things like uh

[57:17] a truly benevolent being of the light

[57:19] would never ever weaponize somebody's

[57:21] growth against them the way that

[57:23] Bentinho does, right? As soon as one of

[57:25] the women doesn't do what he wants, I've

[57:28] I've read all the text messages, right?

[57:30] It's you're really holding on to this

[57:32] victim identity and you need to grow

[57:34] past this and if you want to heal this

[57:37] you need to devote yourself to me and

[57:38] it's like using growth to control them,

[57:40] right? A positive being would never do

[57:42] that because the the rule of the

[57:45] positive polarity is no infringement. So

[57:47] you can only be of service to someone in

[57:49] a way that doesn't infringe on their

[57:50] free will.

[57:52] So you can't tell them what to do, you

[57:53] can't control them in any way, you can

[57:55] only offer guidance and allow the other

[57:57] to make their own choice. But any kind

[57:59] of force is always negative polarity.

[58:02] They think that he's not using force.

[58:05] Cuz what you said is really interesting.

[58:07] You can reflect to others

[58:10] but you can't force them.

[58:13] Mhm. Okay, that's that's cool.

[58:15] They think that that's what the the

[58:17] people on the inside think that that's

[58:18] what he's doing, but I see a lot of

[58:20] enforcement, a lot of coercion, a lot of

[58:22] punishment.

[58:22] >> Oh, yes.

[58:23] >> A lot of I mean, just a lot of force.

[58:25] Yeah.

[58:26] Um and they think that that's not what's

[58:28] going on. They think they're making

[58:29] their own decisions. Yeah.

[58:32] That's what you see, too. That's by

[58:33] design.

[58:34] Okay.

[58:35] >> It's you have to get the people

[58:37] inundated with your thought system. And

[58:40] you know, you obviously saw this with

[58:41] Keith Raniere. It's you come in and it's

[58:43] a lot of empowerment language. It's hey,

[58:45] you know, no victim identity. We're not

[58:47] victims here, right? No. So we always

[58:50] askew victimhood, right? Yeah. And so

[58:53] you're training people to think a

[58:54] certain way and to have certain

[58:56] presuppositions about things, right?

[58:58] Such as

[59:00] voicing when I feel harmed or voicing

[59:03] when I feel out of alignment is just a

[59:05] victim mentality and it's my problem,

[59:07] right?

[59:07] A positive being would never weaponize

[59:10] concepts like that against people and

[59:11] especially a positive being would never

[59:14] ever use fear to motivate somebody for

[59:18] growth or for action of any kind and

[59:20] this is what I've seen with Bentinho

[59:22] over and over again.

[59:24] First of all, it's the whole

[59:26] uh you're being attacked by a

[59:28] service-to-self entity, a negative

[59:30] entity.

[59:31] Okay, so that's sowing fear.

[59:33] Sowing fear is a a huge detrimental

[59:36] structure. This is not something that a

[59:38] positive being references ever, right?

[59:40] But he does this time and time again.

[59:42] Hey, you're stepping out of line because

[59:43] you're under an STS attack.

[59:46] Is that part of the Law of One

[59:48] understanding this whole idea of demonic

[59:50] attacks and demonic possessions and

[59:51] whatever?

[59:52] Uh not the way you probably are thinking

[59:54] about it. Mhm. Um

[59:56] So, here's what the Law of One says and

[59:58] here's how Ben weaponizes it. Carla, the

[1:00:00] channeler, during the sessions, I think

[1:00:03] for about 20-some-odd of the sessions,

[1:00:06] it's coming through that she was

[1:00:07] suffering from some physical illnesses

[1:00:09] and things

[1:00:10] and they ask Ra about it and Ra says,

[1:00:12] "Oh, there's a fifth-density negative

[1:00:14] entity trying to interfere with this

[1:00:15] contact."

[1:00:17] So, the idea is Carla is a really

[1:00:19] high-priority target for the negative

[1:00:21] polarity.

[1:00:23] And so, she had some health ailments

[1:00:24] that they had to work through.

[1:00:27] There's levels to negative entity

[1:00:29] interference. Possession is the most

[1:00:31] extreme. Usually, it's just um

[1:00:34] negative entities just mess with people.

[1:00:35] They sow negative thoughts. They try to

[1:00:37] get some kind of thread of control in

[1:00:38] someone's mind.

[1:00:40] And so, it's not like she was possessed

[1:00:41] or something. There was just a negative

[1:00:42] entity, apparently,

[1:00:44] um trying to mess with the contact. So,

[1:00:47] Ben uses that one example from the Law

[1:00:49] of One to say, "Hey,

[1:00:50] now that you're hanging out with me and

[1:00:52] submitting yourself to me, you're a

[1:00:54] high-priority target for the

[1:00:56] service-to-self path. So, be careful

[1:00:57] because negative entities are coming for

[1:00:59] you, basically."

[1:01:00] You know, I was thinking about this that

[1:01:02] uh there's the great saying a comedian

[1:01:03] once said that it's it makes them

[1:01:06] suspicious that

[1:01:07] um

[1:01:08] God hates everybody they hate as well.

[1:01:11] Yeah. Yeah. And I was thinking about

[1:01:12] it's just interesting that

[1:01:14] everybody who disagrees with Ben is is

[1:01:17] an STS. Yes. I'm like, okay, well,

[1:01:20] that's convenient.

[1:01:20] >> How convenient. Yeah.

[1:01:23] Okay.

[1:01:25] So,

[1:01:26] I don't want to put words in your mouth,

[1:01:28] but like when I This is what I see from

[1:01:30] what I've heard.

[1:01:33] I'm seeing a very underdeveloped person

[1:01:35] in Bentinho.

[1:01:37] Very uh with high levels of perhaps

[1:01:41] um intellectual

[1:01:43] intelligence,

[1:01:44] but perhaps very low levels of emotional

[1:01:46] intelligence, maybe.

[1:01:48] And I see somebody who's very childlike

[1:01:49] and stuck in some stuck as a 12-year-old

[1:01:52] or 13-year-old or whatever the age is.

[1:01:54] So, that's actually exactly how I

[1:01:56] described Bentinho to Silvana after I

[1:01:59] hung out with him a few times. As I

[1:02:00] said, he's like a sexually repressed

[1:02:03] 13-year-old boy in a 31-year-old man's

[1:02:06] body.

[1:02:07] And the the sense that I got having

[1:02:10] learned a few things about him,

[1:02:12] um one of the things he told me is the

[1:02:13] whole torturing a cat story Yeah. from

[1:02:16] childhood. And if you study the the

[1:02:18] pathology of um sociopaths and

[1:02:21] psychopaths, uh torturing animals as a

[1:02:23] child is like one of the top signs of a

[1:02:25] psychopath.

[1:02:27] And he had confided a few things about

[1:02:29] his life growing up that he was always,

[1:02:30] you know, very nerdy and shy. And I

[1:02:32] think he dropped out of high school at

[1:02:34] like as a sophomore.

[1:02:36] And so, I got the the sense that maybe

[1:02:38] he was a nerdy introverted kid who had

[1:02:41] all these desires to

[1:02:42] meet girls and all this stuff that he

[1:02:44] didn't get to do at that age until he

[1:02:47] started to gain a platform and some

[1:02:49] notoriety. And then you have women

[1:02:50] coming to you. And I've seen this this

[1:02:52] archetype play out in a lot of

[1:02:54] well-known spiritual teachers like I

[1:02:56] could name that everybody listening

[1:02:58] would know. It's the same kind of

[1:02:59] archetype of unfulfilled karma.

[1:03:02] So, that can be another way that

[1:03:03] somebody ends up like Bentinho.

[1:03:05] Um I don't I don't want to think that

[1:03:07] he's a secret STS entities fooling

[1:03:10] everybody. I would much rather it be the

[1:03:12] opposite.

[1:03:13] But I talked with Jacqueline about this.

[1:03:15] And because of the childhood stories of

[1:03:17] like torturing a cat and there was a

[1:03:19] couple others that she told me that are

[1:03:21] just classic signs of

[1:03:24] of psychopathy.

[1:03:25] Part of me has wondered if Bentinho

[1:03:27] might be

[1:03:28] an actual negatively polarized soul who

[1:03:31] came back here and is trying to reverse

[1:03:33] polarity. Like maybe he really does want

[1:03:35] to be

[1:03:36] on the light side and so he his soul

[1:03:38] came here to try and do that but he's

[1:03:39] still carrying so much of that negative

[1:03:42] polarity philosophy.

[1:03:45] Um even like the the total lack of

[1:03:47] empathy and compassion is another huge

[1:03:49] sign of the negative polarity cuz in the

[1:03:51] law of one Ra says

[1:03:53] the negative being has to shut off the

[1:03:56] heart chakra. And then they try to turn

[1:03:58] up the upper chakras so they get all the

[1:04:00] spiritual wisdom and knowledge and

[1:04:02] psychic powers but no love or empathy.

[1:04:04] And so they can control people.

[1:04:06] And the positive polarity does the

[1:04:07] opposite. We try to turn up the heart

[1:04:09] chakra and become as loving as possible.

[1:04:11] And so the total lack of empathy is

[1:04:13] another big sign of

[1:04:15] negative polarity influence

[1:04:17] in that

[1:04:19] uh many times I've heard people say that

[1:04:21] and I've seen this on videos too. Like

[1:04:23] um Ben has a very kind of negative view

[1:04:26] of normies. You know, bunch of NPCs,

[1:04:29] bunch of zombies, losers and stuff like

[1:04:31] that. And he'll kind of tongue-in-cheek

[1:04:33] make these jokes. But if anybody in his

[1:04:36] uh his seminars or his events

[1:04:39] like pushes back or has a a disagreement

[1:04:42] with something he's teaching or doing he

[1:04:44] would just you know, humiliate them in

[1:04:46] public from the stage as a kind of a way

[1:04:49] to enforce like

[1:04:51] you know, you nobody does this to me

[1:04:52] without some consequence.

[1:04:55] Before I get to the reckoning parts, I

[1:04:57] want to ask you a question.

[1:05:00] Um

[1:05:01] because

[1:05:03] Kaelen and Jaclyn

[1:05:05] and Jade, you know, they've come away

[1:05:07] with an aversion to the law of one,

[1:05:08] right? Yeah.

[1:05:10] So

[1:05:12] what is the cost in your view when

[1:05:15] genuine teachings get weaponized? I

[1:05:17] mean, you touched on it to some degree,

[1:05:19] but like, what's the cost? What is what

[1:05:21] makes this so,

[1:05:22] I guess, upsetting for you? Yeah.

[1:05:25] Well, at a minimum, somebody loses out

[1:05:28] on all of the benefits of an incredible

[1:05:31] text like The Law of One,

[1:05:33] that I think really does give helpful

[1:05:36] answers to the spiritual path. The Law

[1:05:38] of One basically teaches, "Hey, all

[1:05:39] things are one, and so, you should see

[1:05:42] everyone as an extension of you." They

[1:05:44] call it other selves.

[1:05:46] And the way to polarize or or advance

[1:05:50] spiritually is to be of service to

[1:05:52] others in a way that benefits you and

[1:05:54] everybody else.

[1:05:56] And

[1:05:57] I just don't know what's more true than

[1:05:59] that in my experience of, again, why are

[1:06:01] we all here? What's the point of this

[1:06:03] human game that the universe is playing?

[1:06:05] It really does come down to a kind of

[1:06:08] giant morality test, I think. That we're

[1:06:10] here to see what we're spiritually made

[1:06:12] of, and can we truly be a good person

[1:06:14] and love others and reflect the nature

[1:06:16] of God? And so, when someone uses

[1:06:18] teachings like that to control and abuse

[1:06:20] others, I think that's one of the

[1:06:22] greatest tra- travesties you can do to

[1:06:24] somebody, because then, just like I saw

[1:06:26] in Christianity, people are going to

[1:06:27] throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[1:06:29] And this is also near and dear to my

[1:06:31] heart, having grown up in Christianity

[1:06:33] and deconstructed, was I saw a lot of my

[1:06:36] friends who left Christianity, they

[1:06:38] threw the baby out with the bathwater,

[1:06:39] you know, "Screw Jesus, screw the Bible,

[1:06:41] it's all garbage." And they become a

[1:06:44] nihilistic atheist or whatever, which

[1:06:46] that's fine if that's somebody's path,

[1:06:47] but the being soured towards things that

[1:06:50] are actually good and benevolent, like

[1:06:52] the teachings of Christ, I think is a

[1:06:54] huge travesty, and so I I started making

[1:06:56] YouTube videos about how to rescue

[1:06:58] Christianity when I started my channel

[1:06:59] in 2018. So, this is something I'm

[1:07:02] really passionate about is helping

[1:07:04] people to sift the wheat from the chaff,

[1:07:07] you know, the the true from the false.

[1:07:09] And there's a lot of [ __ ] in in the

[1:07:11] spiritual world and in spiritual

[1:07:12] teachings that uh deserves to be called

[1:07:15] out and exposed because

[1:07:17] when you have people coming to a

[1:07:19] spiritual leader or spiritual group,

[1:07:21] it's because these people are usually

[1:07:23] suffering in their life and they're

[1:07:25] being drawn to something that they think

[1:07:27] can help them. And so to take advantage

[1:07:30] of people in that position,

[1:07:32] you know, where they're really trusting

[1:07:33] you with their heart, with their life,

[1:07:35] with their energy, and you use all of

[1:07:37] that against them, I think is one of the

[1:07:39] worst things you can do to somebody. And

[1:07:41] so at least if we can just put out the

[1:07:43] warnings, like everybody has to walk

[1:07:44] their path. I'm not here to control

[1:07:46] anybody from joining whatever group, but

[1:07:49] I think we owe it to the world to

[1:07:51] reflect what is true. And what is true

[1:07:53] really matters, like if these abuses are

[1:07:55] happening, nothing could be more

[1:07:57] important than this. And so it it

[1:07:59] continues to um baffle me to see the

[1:08:02] responses from his community and where

[1:08:04] it's like maybe if you have one or two

[1:08:06] people that have said these things,

[1:08:08] I could understand the skepticism from

[1:08:10] the group, but it's like this is year

[1:08:12] after year after year, scandal after

[1:08:14] scandal that just follows this guy in

[1:08:16] his wake. And you just start to wonder

[1:08:18] like what would wake them up if anything

[1:08:20] at this point? I wonder that, too.

[1:08:24] You know, um

[1:08:25] Bonnie and I had a discussion with the

[1:08:27] FBI and

[1:08:29] I don't know, maybe 2000 cuz we we spent

[1:08:31] a lot of time with them with 2018 or

[1:08:33] 2019 and we

[1:08:36] uh the second indictment came out and we

[1:08:38] thought like, "Oh, they're all going to

[1:08:39] wake up now." And and they didn't. Yeah.

[1:08:41] And the FBI said to us like if they

[1:08:44] haven't woken up now, it's not going to

[1:08:45] happen. We're like, "No." And it was

[1:08:47] true. Yeah, it was. It's true.

[1:08:49] >> small remnant. Yeah.

[1:08:51] Still going.

[1:08:53] So, the Law of One, based on what you

[1:08:55] were saying to me, is supposed to be a

[1:08:57] tool of liberation. It's supposed to

[1:08:59] free you. Absolutely, yeah.

[1:09:00] >> What you're saying.

[1:09:01] And he's

[1:09:03] looks like he's using it to trap

[1:09:05] everybody.

[1:09:06] He's completely inverted everything.

[1:09:08] 100%.

[1:09:10] That's pretty [ __ ] up. Yeah.

[1:09:12] So, apparently he's told people that he

[1:09:15] is Ra.

[1:09:16] That he's a sex sex sex sixth density

[1:09:19] being. Maybe it's the same thing in his

[1:09:20] mind.

[1:09:21] >> Maybe.

[1:09:22] Uh sixth density being.

[1:09:24] Uh

[1:09:25] like what's your thought on that?

[1:09:27] I never heard him say that, but I've

[1:09:29] heard a lot of people in the group

[1:09:30] reflect that. Jacqueline and Keelan and

[1:09:32] Jade have all said that.

[1:09:34] Which puzzles me, man, because Ra is

[1:09:36] very clear in the Law of One that

[1:09:40] like don't believe people that claim to

[1:09:41] be channeling us if that happens because

[1:09:44] we will only ever communicate with your

[1:09:49] species in this same way with a

[1:09:52] channeler, a questioner, and a scribe.

[1:09:54] Like the three people that channeled the

[1:09:56] Law of One.

[1:09:57] They wanted a certain harmonious group

[1:09:59] setting before they would deliver the

[1:10:00] Law of One. And they said basically this

[1:10:02] is the only format we're going to

[1:10:03] interface with your planet.

[1:10:06] When I read Bentinho's like the latest

[1:10:08] message he put out,

[1:10:10] it's it's funny to me because I know I'm

[1:10:12] I'm way more in depth on the philosophy

[1:10:14] of the Law of One than most people, but

[1:10:16] it's like he's using all the Law of One

[1:10:18] terminology,

[1:10:20] but the

[1:10:21] the message and the philosophies he's

[1:10:23] espousing are just like total service to

[1:10:25] self. The letter he wrote from the

[1:10:26] Himalayas seems very

[1:10:28] if if he's in the Himalayas

[1:10:31] seems very passive-aggressive. Exactly.

[1:10:34] >> trying to be holy, it's trying to be

[1:10:35] loving, it's trying to be wise, but it's

[1:10:37] like dissing anybody who speaks out

[1:10:39] against him.

[1:10:39] >> Yeah. And the thing that I was wondering

[1:10:42] is also like

[1:10:44] I've never read the Law of One. I mean

[1:10:45] I've I've I've listened to I've actually

[1:10:48] listened to a podcast where you describe

[1:10:50] how it happened. Mhm. I thought the

[1:10:52] woman sounded amazing that could

[1:10:53] actually do it better than the guys.

[1:10:54] >> Mhm. Um but I I kind of assumed in there

[1:10:58] is also the sense of

[1:10:59] self-responsibility.

[1:11:01] Probably as part of the teachings.

[1:11:03] Absolutely. So like there's none of

[1:11:05] that,

[1:11:06] apparently. Does he Does he ever do

[1:11:08] anything wrong?

[1:11:09] Does Bentinho? Yeah. No, that's the

[1:11:11] thing, right? He's He's beyond

[1:11:13] questioning. And if if anyone does

[1:11:15] question them, it's just a reflection.

[1:11:17] Whatever he did was to reflect to them

[1:11:19] their own distortion. So I mean, what a

[1:11:21] convenient setup, right? I can't do

[1:11:23] anything wrong even when I abuse women

[1:11:26] and

[1:11:27] lie and all these things I I caught him

[1:11:29] doing.

[1:11:30] Uh if you're raw, you're not you're not

[1:11:32] questionable.

[1:11:34] You know, actually, now that you say

[1:11:35] that, I want to actually just read you

[1:11:36] some of the his message to Silvana cuz

[1:11:39] there was a part of it that relates to

[1:11:40] what you're saying.

[1:11:42] Um

[1:11:47] He says at one point, "This is a

[1:11:48] recurring phenomenon in my life.

[1:11:52] This is basically after he's basically

[1:11:53] saying I want to have sex with you.

[1:11:56] Without saying it. Yeah. This is a

[1:11:57] recurring phenomenon in my life. I've

[1:11:59] noticed ever since my ever since my mind

[1:12:00] has been emptied of a fixed self.

[1:12:03] More who are working with and

[1:12:05] representing the divine feminine and the

[1:12:07] healing of feminine and masculine within

[1:12:08] themselves are drawn into my experience

[1:12:11] and want to be met by this emptiness,

[1:12:13] formlessness, and timelessness.

[1:12:16] I had a feeling you'd laugh.

[1:12:18] Surrender to it to the degree their

[1:12:20] minds feel comfortable with dissolving,

[1:12:22] opening up,

[1:12:24] and exchange or leave their own

[1:12:25] nourishing flavor or frequency upon this

[1:12:28] exchange and unity as well.

[1:12:31] Usually people have a breakthrough or a

[1:12:33] quantum leap into freedom beyond their

[1:12:34] current paradigm or personal personally

[1:12:37] personality structure,

[1:12:39] but it sometimes goes hand-in-hand with

[1:12:40] a challenge or fear or process.

[1:12:43] And the thing that I keep on reading in

[1:12:45] everything he's saying

[1:12:47] is like the body is unimportant. Like I

[1:12:50] I want to [ __ ] you, but the body is

[1:12:51] unimportant cuz I'm actually coming from

[1:12:53] this loftier place where I'm far removed

[1:12:56] from these things, but we need to have

[1:12:59] this experience in the material form.

[1:13:00] And I'm like, "Well, why do you have to

[1:13:01] have the material Why do you have to?"

[1:13:03] Exactly.

[1:13:03] >> Right? It's say one thing, do another

[1:13:05] thing. It's look over here while I, you

[1:13:08] know, steal your lunch money. It's It's

[1:13:10] all this misdirection.

[1:13:11] This is what the negative polarity does.

[1:13:14] People Here's a big problem, I think,

[1:13:16] Mark, with cults and cult leaders is

[1:13:18] that

[1:13:20] spiritual people, by and large, do not

[1:13:23] have an accurate understanding of how

[1:13:26] true service to self beings operate.

[1:13:30] And myself included until I read The Law

[1:13:32] of One. But this is another reason I

[1:13:34] love The Law of One is it gives you this

[1:13:35] stunningly clear image of how negative

[1:13:38] beings operate in the universe. And one

[1:13:41] of the first things Ra describes is that

[1:13:43] the negative being is beautiful to

[1:13:45] appearance. They're They're very

[1:13:46] alluring and they have a a shininess to

[1:13:48] them that pulls you in.

[1:13:51] So we we always picture malevolent

[1:13:53] beings as these kind of

[1:13:55] mustache-twirling villains cackling,

[1:13:57] right? And nothing could be further from

[1:13:59] the truth. It's the I like to use like

[1:14:01] Gavin Newsom as an example, like

[1:14:02] slicked-back hair, great smile, great

[1:14:05] speaker. And what they do is they give

[1:14:07] you 90% truth and light. Mhm. And then

[1:14:11] they just weave in a 10% darkness into

[1:14:13] that. Or maybe maybe even 1%. They'll

[1:14:16] give you as much truth as as necessary

[1:14:18] to get you to buy the tiny little amount

[1:14:20] of evil that they weave in, because they

[1:14:22] know if they can just create one degree

[1:14:24] of separation from the truth, over time

[1:14:27] the the gap gets wider. And so they just

[1:14:30] need you to accept one or two

[1:14:31] distortions at a time. And so they'll

[1:14:33] give you an hour plus of top-level

[1:14:36] spiritual teaching, right? And then

[1:14:38] they're going to give you something that

[1:14:40] puts a hook in you psychologically. Or

[1:14:42] something they know they'll use against

[1:14:43] you in the future. That makes perfect

[1:14:45] sense. Because one of the things that's

[1:14:46] happening on YouTube is in the comments

[1:14:48] is people say I've gotten so much out of

[1:14:51] these teachings. Yes.

[1:14:52] >> I've gotten so much and I could say

[1:14:54] about Nicks and yeah, a lot of people

[1:14:56] that came in got a lot of good stuff.

[1:14:57] Yeah.

[1:14:58] But they can't seem to wrap their head

[1:15:00] around

[1:15:02] I got a lot of good stuff. I learned a

[1:15:03] lot and there's a bunch of evil things

[1:15:06] happening. Yeah. Right? Yes.

[1:15:09] I was really into non-duality for quite

[1:15:11] some time, especially around the time I

[1:15:13] was into Bentinho stuff. You know, he's

[1:15:16] a non-duality teacher and I learned very

[1:15:19] quickly what many people I've spoken

[1:15:21] with who also spent a lot of time in

[1:15:23] non-duality have also said, which is

[1:15:25] that all of these high-level teachings,

[1:15:28] unless they are

[1:15:30] delivered and shrouded in the truth of

[1:15:31] love as the number one informing quality

[1:15:34] of these truths, then they're easily

[1:15:37] weaponizable by the darkness. And in

[1:15:38] fact, they make great weapons for the

[1:15:40] darkness.

[1:15:41] Um solipsism being one example. You can

[1:15:44] just make a a little spin on non-duality

[1:15:46] and all of the sudden it becomes

[1:15:47] solipsism, which is essentially the

[1:15:49] negative polarity thought system. Only I

[1:15:52] exist. Everyone else is just a dream

[1:15:54] character in my dream. So this is my

[1:15:56] dream to put in order as I want it to

[1:15:58] be. Mhm.

[1:15:59] And

[1:16:01] that's one of the hallmarks, right, of a

[1:16:02] negative being that people overlook is

[1:16:04] that they're somehow easy to spot. You

[1:16:07] know, like if if I was confronted with a

[1:16:08] true psychopath or malevolent being, I

[1:16:11] would see them from a mile away.

[1:16:14] And it's like, no, no, you wouldn't

[1:16:16] unless you've been burned by one. And

[1:16:18] then you can spot them. Yeah.

[1:16:19] But they're exceptionally good at

[1:16:21] pretending to be

[1:16:23] on uh the light side.

[1:16:25] And this is why I give these caveats

[1:16:27] quite often now in my teachings. Like, I

[1:16:30] do not care how wise somebody is. I do

[1:16:33] not care what a good speaker you are,

[1:16:35] how good you are on a microphone. None

[1:16:37] of that [ __ ] impresses me. There's all

[1:16:39] kinds of people with towering intellects

[1:16:41] that can give amazing speeches.

[1:16:43] None of that actually predicates who you

[1:16:45] are in private, your your character,

[1:16:48] your integrity.

[1:16:49] So, none of that's impressive to me.

[1:16:51] What I actually find to be cutting edge

[1:16:54] on the spiritual path is not all the

[1:16:56] non-duality, nothing exists, only the

[1:16:58] self is real.

[1:16:59] It's like those things are technically

[1:17:01] true, but if they're not informed by

[1:17:03] love, it's dry and it's tasteless and

[1:17:06] it's a weapon in the hands of the enemy,

[1:17:07] right?

[1:17:08] So, what is cutting edge to me are the

[1:17:10] teachings of Jesus of like, "Hey, get

[1:17:12] over yourself, die to yourself, take up

[1:17:14] your cross,

[1:17:16] um God exalts the humble and lowers the

[1:17:18] proud, right? Repent, turn away from

[1:17:20] evil, forgive your brother his

[1:17:22] trespasses, love your neighbor as

[1:17:23] yourself."

[1:17:25] That's the cutting edge [ __ ] that very

[1:17:27] few people can do.

[1:17:29] And so, one of the best, probably the

[1:17:32] best um litmus test that anybody can use

[1:17:37] to scan if someone is beneficial or

[1:17:40] detrimental

[1:17:41] is to just look for these two different

[1:17:43] qualities, humility or narcissism. And I

[1:17:47] know you're you're well versed in the uh

[1:17:48] the latter

[1:17:49] with your new film, but this is an

[1:17:52] unmistakable sign that someone is not

[1:17:54] truly walking the path of light. It

[1:17:56] doesn't mean that they're fully on the

[1:17:58] negative polarity or anything, it

[1:17:59] doesn't necessarily mean that.

[1:18:01] But, if somebody has true narcissism,

[1:18:04] pride, they are not truly walking on the

[1:18:07] path of light yet cuz it's it's a

[1:18:09] prerequisite. Humility is a prerequisite

[1:18:12] to truly being on the path of light.

[1:18:15] And so, you can look at somebody and

[1:18:16] just say, "Is this a genuinely humble

[1:18:18] person?"

[1:18:19] And when you know what humility looks

[1:18:21] like, it's not hard to see it in

[1:18:22] somebody.

[1:18:23] Right.

[1:18:24] Yeah.

[1:18:26] Another thing, I just want to go back to

[1:18:27] the the non-duality and I agree with

[1:18:29] what you're saying there. That makes

[1:18:30] perfect sense.

[1:18:31] The non-duality thing is so interesting

[1:18:33] because a lot of those people say things

[1:18:35] like, "Well, there is no good and bad,

[1:18:36] we're beyond good and bad.

[1:18:39] But then when people attack them, those

[1:18:40] people are bad.

[1:18:42] Right.

[1:18:42] >> And I'm still like, how do you not How

[1:18:44] are people not seeing that this doesn't

[1:18:45] make any sense? Like, is it non-duality

[1:18:48] when you're preaching, but it's duality

[1:18:50] when you're attacked? Like Pretty much,

[1:18:52] yeah. Make up your mind, right? Yeah.

[1:18:54] I mean, look, I get I get it. I get it

[1:18:56] when you're in that kind of um

[1:18:58] when you're kind of brainwashed,

[1:19:00] you don't see those those things that

[1:19:02] don't make sense. There's all this

[1:19:03] cognitive dissonance going going on in

[1:19:05] your trying to make sense of it because

[1:19:07] this is the teachings the teachings have

[1:19:09] made me feel a certain way. This is the

[1:19:11] teacher who's teaching the teachings

[1:19:12] that have made me feel a certain way,

[1:19:14] and the way I feel is good.

[1:19:16] Yeah. So, I don't want to attack the

[1:19:18] teachings or the teacher because it'll

[1:19:20] affect the teachings, which would mean

[1:19:22] everything to me,

[1:19:24] and it'll take away the goodness and the

[1:19:25] divinity and the whatever whatever

[1:19:27] whatever that I now experience. Yes.

[1:19:29] Right. It's the same dilemma that I

[1:19:31] faced in Christianity as a Christian.

[1:19:33] We we screen out

[1:19:36] the the parts of cognitive dissonance

[1:19:38] that don't add up. We say, "Oh, red

[1:19:40] flag? Well, let me just screen that out

[1:19:42] because it's it's inconvenient if it's

[1:19:44] true.

[1:19:45] I want these teachings to be real. I

[1:19:46] want the Bible to be written by God. I

[1:19:48] want Jesus to be my Lord and Savior.

[1:19:50] And

[1:19:51] anything that seems to contradict that

[1:19:53] for a while, you have to part ways with

[1:19:55] it in order to maintain your certainty.

[1:19:58] And I think that's a big part of it is

[1:20:00] we all want certainty so bad

[1:20:02] that when you see somebody who's full of

[1:20:04] charisma, and all of these

[1:20:07] um you know, service-to-self beings,

[1:20:09] cult leader types, they have incredible

[1:20:11] charisma, right? It's it's usually one

[1:20:13] of the hallmark signs is they're um

[1:20:16] they're fun to be around, right? And

[1:20:17] they're slick talkers, they're

[1:20:19] intelligent. A lot of times they're kind

[1:20:21] of a genius in some way, and people get

[1:20:24] razzle-dazzled by the shiny object

[1:20:25] syndrome, and again screen out all the

[1:20:28] red flags that they're seeing. Yeah.

[1:20:31] >> [gasps]

[1:20:31] >> W- One of the question um

[1:20:35] do [clears throat] you think that

[1:20:35] Bentinho

[1:20:37] did have a legitimate awakening of some

[1:20:39] kind?

[1:20:40] Some some connection to the divine or

[1:20:41] whatever

[1:20:43] of some kind?

[1:20:45] It's possible. I I can't I don't know. I

[1:20:48] can't say either way. I can see it being

[1:20:50] the case and then I mean this typically

[1:20:52] is what happens is somebody does have

[1:20:54] uh a mystical experience, a divine

[1:20:56] awakening, an encounter with God or

[1:20:58] something.

[1:21:00] And

[1:21:02] once that experience wears off, it

[1:21:04] creates a kind of spiritual ego. And I

[1:21:07] experienced this myself when I had my

[1:21:08] huge awakening in 2018.

[1:21:11] Uh a year before I met Bentinho,

[1:21:13] I had a 2-week-long awakening experience

[1:21:16] where I was in this incredible samadhi

[1:21:18] state for 2 full weeks. I could not

[1:21:21] suffer. I could not even remember what

[1:21:23] it was like to suffer. Everything was

[1:21:25] just It was so obvious that everything

[1:21:27] is one. Only God exists. We're all just

[1:21:30] like brothers and sisters in heaven.

[1:21:32] That's how it felt.

[1:21:33] And it was wonderful. It was like being

[1:21:34] in heaven.

[1:21:35] But 2 weeks to the day I woke up and

[1:21:39] the first ego thought came back online

[1:21:41] and it I looked at my phone as my alarm

[1:21:43] went off and I realized it had been

[1:21:45] exactly 2 weeks since I'd had that

[1:21:47] awakening and I'd been in that state for

[1:21:49] 2 full weeks.

[1:21:51] And so I my ego thought, "Wow, I wonder

[1:21:54] if um

[1:21:56] maybe I got enlightened."

[1:21:58] And it really liked that cuz oh, I don't

[1:22:00] have to suffer anymore. This is great.

[1:22:02] And so I was entertaining that thought

[1:22:03] as I went to work that day.

[1:22:05] And then quickly my ego came back online

[1:22:07] and I started sensing the egos creeping

[1:22:09] out of the, you know, broom closet I had

[1:22:11] stuffed it in for 2 weeks and clawing

[1:22:13] its way back onto the throne of my mind

[1:22:15] and I could not do anything to stop it.

[1:22:17] And it felt like being cast out of

[1:22:19] heaven

[1:22:20] and back into hell again.

[1:22:22] And so I languished for a long time

[1:22:23] trying to make sense out of that

[1:22:24] experience of why why did How could I

[1:22:27] have been in that state for two full

[1:22:28] weeks and then gone back into ego

[1:22:30] consciousness again? It seems crazy.

[1:22:33] But this is the nature of the mind is

[1:22:34] that you can have profound experiences

[1:22:37] in consciousness, but assimilating them

[1:22:40] and integrating them into your state of

[1:22:43] being and the way you show up in the

[1:22:44] world is a totally different thing. And

[1:22:47] so again, people buy

[1:22:49] the crazy spiritual experiences and

[1:22:51] private visions people have the

[1:22:53] intellect, the knowledge, the

[1:22:56] the genius they have and these things

[1:22:58] are what pull people toward these kinds

[1:23:00] of beings.

[1:23:01] And so we have to have um

[1:23:03] different litmus tests to

[1:23:06] to put people through in our mind to

[1:23:08] know is this truly a beneficial or a

[1:23:10] detrimental person for me to be around.

[1:23:12] We can't just ask, "Well, are they

[1:23:13] intelligent? Are they charismatic? Are

[1:23:15] they good-looking? Um do they have

[1:23:17] private visions? Do they have awakening

[1:23:18] experiences?" As hard as it is for some

[1:23:21] people to believe, none of that means

[1:23:23] [ __ ] on the spiritual path if you don't

[1:23:25] have embodiment. You can have all those

[1:23:27] things and not actually have any of the

[1:23:29] characteristics of those qualities.

[1:23:31] Yeah.

[1:23:32] It's a paradox. It is.

[1:23:35] Um

[1:23:36] okay.

[1:23:38] Your

[1:23:40] your I guess your personal reckoning.

[1:23:44] Jacqueline said something. She told me

[1:23:46] she had a conversation with you where

[1:23:47] you shared with her you don't know if

[1:23:48] it's is service to self and service to

[1:23:50] others and Jacqueline said something.

[1:23:51] She told me that she told you, "Well,

[1:23:53] what does it [ __ ] matter?" Yeah.

[1:23:55] Grounded Yeah.

[1:23:56] >> I I totally agree.

[1:23:59] Um why have you been struggling with

[1:24:01] this so much? With trying to cuz cuz

[1:24:04] what I see outside of your nervous

[1:24:07] system and your belief system is I see

[1:24:09] that you have a certain framework and

[1:24:11] structure to understand the world at

[1:24:12] present.

[1:24:14] And maybe this will be the one until you

[1:24:15] die or maybe it'll who knows. I don't

[1:24:16] know.

[1:24:17] And in that structure you seem to be

[1:24:19] struggling with is he

[1:24:21] you know, is he a charlatan? you know,

[1:24:23] is it or is it just illusion or or

[1:24:26] whatever and and that seems to be a I I

[1:24:28] think. Is that the struggle? I would say

[1:24:29] it's more like if he's not an STS

[1:24:32] entity, who is?

[1:24:34] You know, how would I know if somebody

[1:24:35] really was if he's not?

[1:24:38] That's interesting.

[1:24:40] Explain more. Explain more. Yeah, well

[1:24:43] um

[1:24:45] it's kind of like, you know, figures

[1:24:47] like The Rock, Dwayne The Rock Johnson,

[1:24:49] you know, his whole career he's

[1:24:50] maintained totally natural, I'm not on

[1:24:52] steroids. He's like the most jacked

[1:24:54] human being on Earth. And it's kind of

[1:24:56] like okay, if if The Rock's not on

[1:24:58] steroids, then who the hell is on

[1:25:00] steroids?

[1:25:02] It's a bit like that with Bentinho for

[1:25:03] me. It's like if that guy is not a

[1:25:05] classic negatively polarized entity,

[1:25:08] textbook as The Law of One describes it,

[1:25:11] I don't know how I would know if

[1:25:12] somebody was. Like he checks every box.

[1:25:14] But I still leave room for maybe he

[1:25:16] isn't. Like maybe that's not the path he

[1:25:17] wants to be.

[1:25:19] It's not intentional. It's just the

[1:25:21] disintegration aspect. I'm open to that.

[1:25:24] It's just that when you see so many red

[1:25:26] flags and so many boxes being checked,

[1:25:27] it's like if it looks like a duck and

[1:25:29] sounds like a duck, it might be a duck.

[1:25:32] I think that's what I've come to as

[1:25:33] well. It's like I don't know the answer

[1:25:34] to any of the things that the the

[1:25:35] conundrum you've been describing in Law

[1:25:37] of One terms.

[1:25:39] But what I see is a very familiar

[1:25:41] pattern.

[1:25:42] Yes. And I see somebody who's not

[1:25:44] walking the talk

[1:25:47] at at all from what I understand of the

[1:25:49] Law of One. And I now understand it a

[1:25:50] little bit more based on what you're

[1:25:51] saying and it seems like we had a chat

[1:25:53] before we started that I was super into

[1:25:56] the the Essene, you know, the Essene

[1:25:57] Gospels and stuff like that. So

[1:26:00] I can see that's where you're coming

[1:26:01] from.

[1:26:02] Bentinho actually had a fascination with

[1:26:04] Osho. Oh, really?

[1:26:06] >> know if you know that. I did not know

[1:26:07] that. Yeah, he was a major Osho fan. And

[1:26:10] so I I watched Wild Country.

[1:26:12] Yeah. And I was like, oh yeah, now I get

[1:26:14] it. Yeah.

[1:26:16] Now I get it. You know, Ramana Maharshi

[1:26:18] went to an ashram years and years ago

[1:26:20] before he started the organization. And

[1:26:23] well, first of all, they kicked him out

[1:26:24] cuz he was trying to [ __ ] the the you

[1:26:26] know, the students. Get out of here.

[1:26:27] >> And secondly,

[1:26:29] one of his

[1:26:30] ex-girlfriends

[1:26:32] told me that what happened is he saw the

[1:26:34] power that the guru had.

[1:26:36] Yeah. And he wanted to figure out how to

[1:26:37] get that. Yeah.

[1:26:39] It's interesting just thinking of

[1:26:40] spiritual teachers. Like somebody that I

[1:26:42] actually enjoy listening to is Jeff

[1:26:44] Foster as well, cuz I think that this is

[1:26:45] a guy who used to be all non-dual and

[1:26:47] now he's like arrived back in the body

[1:26:48] kind of thing and it's cool. And he's

[1:26:50] spoken out about Bentinho as well. Mhm.

[1:26:52] Um

[1:26:54] there was also a spiritual teacher

[1:26:56] I won't mention, but that worked with

[1:26:58] Bentinho many, many years ago, like

[1:27:00] maybe

[1:27:01] 10 or more years ago.

[1:27:02] >> Mhm. And apparently, and according to

[1:27:04] him

[1:27:05] when he was working with Bentinho,

[1:27:07] Bentinho said, uh

[1:27:09] "Do you think I'm ready to be a

[1:27:10] teacher?" And and he's the teacher said,

[1:27:12] "No, you're not."

[1:27:14] And apparently, I don't know if it's

[1:27:15] true, Bentinho said, "I can't give it

[1:27:17] up. I can't give up what I'm getting

[1:27:19] now.

[1:27:19] It's too good." I said, "Well, that's

[1:27:21] interesting." Yeah. That is interesting.

[1:27:23] But there's no self who can desire

[1:27:25] something, right?

[1:27:27] Apparently. So, that's the thing that's

[1:27:29] so interesting because there is this

[1:27:33] This is my This is what I think is going

[1:27:35] on, and I could be completely wrong, and

[1:27:36] I'm not a psychologist, but

[1:27:39] I think there is this in this delusion

[1:27:42] that I've been looking at when I as I'm

[1:27:43] studying him, there is this

[1:27:45] need for perfection.

[1:27:47] This need to be seen that way.

[1:27:50] And

[1:27:51] what must be a complete hatred somewhere

[1:27:53] down beneath of anything inside of him

[1:27:56] that is not that. Yeah. But instead of

[1:27:58] just reckoning with that's his stuff, he

[1:28:01] seems to project all of the ugliness out

[1:28:03] onto other people and punish them as

[1:28:06] though they are an externalization of

[1:28:08] everything he hates about himself, which

[1:28:10] is just being a human being. Yes.

[1:28:11] >> Like he's not allowed to be a human

[1:28:12] being in the structure that he's built.

[1:28:14] He says I'm not a human being.

[1:28:16] Routinely says that.

[1:28:18] So, I mean that's that's crazy.

[1:28:20] Yeah.

[1:28:22] But you've seen that I mean you've seen

[1:28:23] that in Christianity as well. Like, you

[1:28:25] know, that the preacher does something

[1:28:27] and then they like let's say they're

[1:28:28] diddling kids and now they're punishing

[1:28:30] everybody else for doing awful things

[1:28:32] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:28:32] >> that they themselves are doing. Yeah.

[1:28:34] Usually it's the homosexuality. Yeah.

[1:28:36] The preachers that go hard against that

[1:28:38] are typically they get found out later.

[1:28:40] Yeah. It's classic, yeah.

[1:28:43] All right, I have just a few questions

[1:28:44] from my Patreon people.

[1:28:46] I told them I was going to talk to you.

[1:28:47] They were super excited. Nice. You know,

[1:28:49] cuz a whole bunch people really respect

[1:28:50] you and they were like we'd like to hear

[1:28:52] like what it's supposed to be versus

[1:28:53] like what it turned into. Yeah.

[1:28:55] So, Erica asks when someone feels

[1:28:58] elevated in a teacher's presence even

[1:29:00] briefly, it can create a kind of debt or

[1:29:02] devotion that makes it very hard to see

[1:29:04] that teacher clearly.

[1:29:06] From your perspective, what is actually

[1:29:08] happening psychologically and

[1:29:09] spiritually when followers refuse to

[1:29:10] acknowledge harm done by someone they've

[1:29:12] placed on a pedestal to the point of

[1:29:14] turning against the people who've been

[1:29:16] hurt?

[1:29:18] Yeah, well we call it Stockholm

[1:29:19] syndrome, right?

[1:29:20] It's I think it's a component of the way

[1:29:23] we project our light onto others.

[1:29:27] Whatever we're not willing to accept in

[1:29:28] ourselves, we see it in other people and

[1:29:30] we we honor it there.

[1:29:32] And it's really because it's something

[1:29:34] in ourselves we want to access, but we

[1:29:36] don't believe we can access it. So, we

[1:29:38] access it through another person. And so

[1:29:40] enlightenment is the most obvious

[1:29:41] example. Everybody wants to be free of

[1:29:44] suffering in the spiritual world, but

[1:29:46] enlightenment's tough on this planet.

[1:29:48] And so oh, this guy says he's

[1:29:49] enlightened, that's what I want. I'll

[1:29:51] believe it and I want it to be true.

[1:29:54] And it's the wanting it to be true

[1:29:56] rather than wanting to know what is true

[1:29:58] that's the detrimental

[1:29:59] uh mistake that people make around these

[1:30:02] kinds of leaders is

[1:30:05] you just can't trust your soul with

[1:30:08] anybody but yourself, you know? And

[1:30:11] there's no reason to outsource your

[1:30:12] power to anyone, first of all. But a a

[1:30:15] true guru or teacher, at best, is just

[1:30:18] somebody who offers guidance and does

[1:30:21] not elevate themselves over anyone.

[1:30:23] Uh and I know Bentinho, he knows these

[1:30:26] things, so he's very good at presenting

[1:30:27] a certain image of, "Oh, we're all

[1:30:29] equal." He'll say that stuff.

[1:30:32] But in my understanding, the way I the

[1:30:34] way I see the psychology is these are

[1:30:36] these are qualifiers and setups for him

[1:30:39] to be able to say other things. And then

[1:30:42] if anyone calls him out on the

[1:30:43] contradiction, he can say, "No, but I

[1:30:45] already said that everyone's equal. But

[1:30:47] I'm not a person and I'm raw and I'm

[1:30:49] more advanced than all of you." And you

[1:30:51] know, I've seen Keelan's text where he's

[1:30:52] like demanding Keelan to devote himself

[1:30:55] and he's like, "I'm enlightened and

[1:30:56] you're not, so you should shut up and

[1:30:57] listen to me." And that's the

[1:30:59] self-elevation

[1:31:00] that you'll never catch a truly uh

[1:31:03] positively polarized being ever talking

[1:31:05] like that. Um so I think people just

[1:31:08] they want it to be true so bad. It's

[1:31:10] just like religion. That at a certain

[1:31:12] point you're so invested in the belief

[1:31:14] system, in the community,

[1:31:16] that you just stand to lose too much and

[1:31:18] it brings up a sense of existential,

[1:31:21] even depression or fear in people that

[1:31:23] what if all this is [ __ ] What if

[1:31:25] this person is an abuser? That would be

[1:31:27] like living in a nightmare. The person I

[1:31:29] trust the most is the devil? You know,

[1:31:31] that's not a reality that anybody wants

[1:31:33] to live in. And so for a while people

[1:31:35] keep suppressing

[1:31:37] the inner conflict that they're feeling.

[1:31:39] Yeah.

[1:31:40] A a question that that was not asked,

[1:31:43] but something I want to ask you about.

[1:31:47] People want to

[1:31:49] outsource divinity onto other people.

[1:31:52] Mhm.

[1:31:53] And there's something terrifying about

[1:31:56] them acknowledging that it must also be

[1:31:58] inside themselves, even though they hear

[1:32:00] the teacher saying that. Yeah. This

[1:32:01] thing I am, you are, too, yada yada

[1:32:03] yada.

[1:32:03] >> Yeah. But there's something about

[1:32:05] turning towards themselves

[1:32:07] and saying that I am, if not the source,

[1:32:09] I am aligned with the source on a very

[1:32:12] personal level,

[1:32:13] and it's not you. Yeah.

[1:32:16] What is that in your experience? What is

[1:32:18] that fear that they have of just saying

[1:32:20] it's it's in here?

[1:32:22] I think it's the fear of

[1:32:23] self-responsibility.

[1:32:24] I really do.

[1:32:26] I think it's Marianne Williamson has the

[1:32:27] famous quote, um we fear our light more

[1:32:30] than our darkness.

[1:32:32] And I think that's why is that if the

[1:32:34] light and the truth is in us, then all

[1:32:37] the onus is on us to do what is right,

[1:32:39] to choose what is right, to overcome

[1:32:41] evil with good and all the things Jesus

[1:32:42] taught. And I think this is why Jesus

[1:32:45] said,

[1:32:46] uh strive to enter through the narrow

[1:32:48] way, for the path is broad and wide that

[1:32:51] leads to destruction, and there's many

[1:32:52] that find it. But the path to life is

[1:32:55] narrow and there's few who find it.

[1:32:57] And he says, therefore strive to enter

[1:32:59] through the narrow way. And the word

[1:33:01] strive in Greek is agonizomai,

[1:33:04] which means to struggle with strenuous

[1:33:06] effort and difficulty.

[1:33:08] So I think Jesus was painting this

[1:33:10] picture for us that, "Hey, the real

[1:33:12] spiritual path, guys, is hard. It is a

[1:33:15] denial of the egoic self day after day,

[1:33:17] moment by moment. It is a willingness to

[1:33:20] forgive everyone and put nobody out of

[1:33:21] your heart. It's all the stuff ego

[1:33:23] doesn't want to do."

[1:33:24] And so another

[1:33:26] characteristic of people that are

[1:33:27] attracted to cult leaders, often I've

[1:33:29] noticed,

[1:33:30] is the desire to seek altered states

[1:33:34] that especially the guru seems to have,

[1:33:36] right? And Bentinho's sitting up on

[1:33:38] stage in every video, you know, staring

[1:33:40] at everyone and blissed out. And people

[1:33:43] watch that and they're like, "I want

[1:33:44] that."

[1:33:46] And that's another

[1:33:47] dangerous hook for the negative polarity

[1:33:49] because

[1:33:51] negative polarity will give you altered

[1:33:52] states all day long.

[1:33:54] But what they will will not give you is

[1:33:56] altered traits.

[1:33:58] That's what the positive polarity does.

[1:34:00] On the positive polarity,

[1:34:02] altered states are great if they happen,

[1:34:04] but it's not something that is to be

[1:34:05] sought after because again, the ego

[1:34:07] likes mountain top experiences and it

[1:34:10] makes identities out of them and I'm a

[1:34:11] new I'm now enlightened and stuff,

[1:34:13] right?

[1:34:14] So instead, the positive polarity is

[1:34:16] altered traits over altered states. It's

[1:34:18] about embodying what we know and not

[1:34:20] just impressing others with all of our

[1:34:22] knowledge. And so that's another big red

[1:34:24] flag when any community is is

[1:34:27] putting an emphasis on altered states,

[1:34:29] to me is another kind of red flag of

[1:34:31] this is either a cult or it's heading in

[1:34:33] that direction, you know.

[1:34:34] >> I was in one of those for 10 years

[1:34:37] before NXIVM. Wow. Yeah. You've been

[1:34:40] through the wringer, man. Man, dude, I

[1:34:42] have been a cult hopper. Maybe this is

[1:34:44] the last time, we'll see.

[1:34:46] Um

[1:34:49] I know what I know how you're going to

[1:34:50] ask this. This is one more question from

[1:34:52] Patreon then I have one more after that.

[1:34:53] >> Okay.

[1:34:55] Ben G released what's become known as

[1:34:56] the letter from the Himalayas in which

[1:34:58] he essentially steps back from his old

[1:35:00] self and presents a new identity.

[1:35:02] From a Law of One or spiritual

[1:35:03] intelligence perspective, what does

[1:35:05] genuine transformational actually

[1:35:07] require?

[1:35:08] Is it possible to leap into a new self

[1:35:10] without accountability, without facing

[1:35:12] consequence and without remorse

[1:35:14] and still call that growth?

[1:35:16] Absolutely not.

[1:35:18] I've seen this time and time again from

[1:35:21] friends, colleagues in my own life.

[1:35:25] You can go go to a wilderness cabin for

[1:35:27] a week, you know, do it a silent

[1:35:29] darkness retreat, ayahuasca.

[1:35:32] You can go on these quests and they can

[1:35:34] be very good and very beneficial and

[1:35:37] they can cause shifts.

[1:35:39] But I have never seen somebody have a

[1:35:41] mountain top experience and then truly

[1:35:44] come out of it with the altered traits.

[1:35:47] It maybe nudges you a little bit in that

[1:35:49] direction, but I think at most what a

[1:35:51] mystical

[1:35:52] experience is is a glimpse of something.

[1:35:56] It's just a flash of here's what reality

[1:35:58] is really like.

[1:36:00] But for you to be able to integrate what

[1:36:02] reality is and live it out as if it's

[1:36:04] normal to you and true to you is a whole

[1:36:06] 'nother thing. I mean, we we are full of

[1:36:09] detrimental belief systems and

[1:36:10] conditioning from society and religion

[1:36:13] and all kinds of stuff.

[1:36:15] Our meaning-making systems are so

[1:36:18] uh negatively oriented in so many ways.

[1:36:21] And so integrating positive principles

[1:36:23] is an uphill battle for everybody. And

[1:36:26] the ego does not go down without a

[1:36:27] fight. So

[1:36:29] other than the rarest of rare exceptions

[1:36:32] like a Ramana Maharshi or an Eckhart

[1:36:34] Tolle who they get the one-shot kill

[1:36:37] awakening, right?

[1:36:39] For the vast majority of us

[1:36:41] the ego gets muted for a while, whether

[1:36:43] it's for a day or an hour or 2 weeks or

[1:36:45] 2 months, but it will come back online

[1:36:48] and you will have to reckon with every

[1:36:50] aspect of your ego at some point. And

[1:36:54] that happens day by day, moment by

[1:36:56] moment, showing up again and again in

[1:36:58] your world. How can I be a little bit

[1:37:00] more loving today? How can I be a little

[1:37:02] bit more authentic today?

[1:37:04] And it's the daily dying to yourself as

[1:37:06] Jesus said, "Deny Deny yourself daily,

[1:37:09] take up your cross daily, and then you

[1:37:11] can follow me." He's literally saying,

[1:37:13] right? You have to be willing to walk

[1:37:15] this difficult path with me every day.

[1:37:18] If you're looking for a one-shot

[1:37:19] awakening and easy way out, a shortcut,

[1:37:22] this is not the path for you. That's the

[1:37:24] broad road, you know.

[1:37:26] So you don't consider yourself

[1:37:27] enlightened?

[1:37:28] Definitely not.

[1:37:29] >> [laughter]

[1:37:30] >> But what does enlightenment mean is

[1:37:32] another question, right? Yeah.

[1:37:34] >> [sighs and gasps]

[1:37:35] >> There are other Law of One teachers,

[1:37:36] right?

[1:37:37] Yeah, I think so.

[1:37:39] Not a lot.

[1:37:40] Why the [ __ ] aren't they saying

[1:37:41] something?

[1:37:43] I do know that L and L Research, uh

[1:37:45] which is the organization that channeled

[1:37:47] the Law of One, and they steward the

[1:37:49] teachings even till today.

[1:37:51] Um they put out they don't name

[1:37:53] Bentinho, but they put out a warning to

[1:37:54] their community, and I think there's

[1:37:56] even like a notice on their website Mhm.

[1:37:58] that says something like, "These

[1:38:00] teachings have and are being manipulated

[1:38:02] and distorted by certain people. So,

[1:38:05] make sure you're

[1:38:07] coming to us if you really want to know

[1:38:08] what this text teaches. Like, we're the

[1:38:10] most reliable source for that, and be

[1:38:12] wary of people using these teachings

[1:38:14] without giving us credit." Mhm. So, when

[1:38:16] I started making Law of One videos, they

[1:38:18] reached out via email right away, and

[1:38:20] they said, "Hey, uh love you sharing the

[1:38:23] Law of One. That's what we want, but can

[1:38:24] you put L&L Research link, our link in

[1:38:27] your description, and give us credit and

[1:38:29] say, 'Hey, you know, for the for the

[1:38:30] true Law of One teachings, go to this

[1:38:32] website.'" I was like, "Absolutely. I

[1:38:33] love that. There's some accountability

[1:38:35] there."

[1:38:36] And that's another interesting thing

[1:38:37] about Bentinho to me was that I never

[1:38:39] ever heard this guy teach from the Law

[1:38:41] of One. Like, open the text, read it,

[1:38:44] make commentary on it, explain it. It's

[1:38:47] always just this casual mentioning of

[1:38:49] ideas from the Law of One, and maybe at

[1:38:52] best snippet quotes. Like, "As Ra says,

[1:38:56] the moment contains love." Something

[1:38:58] really short like that. But never an

[1:39:00] actual lecture or discourse from the

[1:39:02] text and getting into the the

[1:39:04] nitty-gritty of it. And I think that's

[1:39:06] pretty telling as well because

[1:39:08] it is a hard text to understand, Yeah.

[1:39:10] and so people like to look to

[1:39:12] gatekeepers

[1:39:14] who understand the text to say, "Look,

[1:39:15] just you tell me what it says."

[1:39:17] And I get that all the time,

[1:39:19] but I have to tell people, "Look, you

[1:39:21] can watch my videos, but you need to

[1:39:23] read the text for yourself because you

[1:39:25] might see things that I don't see, and

[1:39:26] you might have a different perspective

[1:39:27] on things. But don't make me the

[1:39:29] infallible source of the Law of One. I'm

[1:39:31] just presenting my perspective on it."

[1:39:33] And Bentinho never Like, I have whole

[1:39:36] videos going through entire sessions of

[1:39:38] the Law of One cuz it's like, let's

[1:39:40] actually unpack the text.

[1:39:42] And the fact that he never I've never

[1:39:43] seen him do that. Maybe he has and I

[1:39:45] haven't seen it. But that's another red

[1:39:47] flag of uh kind of the gatekeeping,

[1:39:49] right?

[1:39:51] You've listened to some of the podcasts

[1:39:53] that we've been doing with Jade, Jaclyn,

[1:39:55] and Keelin. How do you feel listening to

[1:39:57] some of those things that some of the

[1:39:59] more difficult things?

[1:40:00] It's it's heart-wrenching. It's really

[1:40:03] tough to listen to. Um I've told some of

[1:40:05] my friends here in Austin about it and

[1:40:07] they they watched a few of the

[1:40:08] interviews as well.

[1:40:10] And they were sickened as well. And they

[1:40:13] they actually encouraged me. They were

[1:40:14] like, "You need to do this, man."

[1:40:17] And I said, "I know. I know I do." And

[1:40:19] you know, I've also learned a lot about

[1:40:21] my experience from watching Jade and

[1:40:23] Keelin and Jaclyn's interviews

[1:40:26] because it's helped me to put a lot of

[1:40:27] the pieces together of things that I

[1:40:29] couldn't quite track when I was there.

[1:40:32] Um for instance, Bentinho asked me to

[1:40:34] write for him and that was kind of the

[1:40:36] pretense under which our friendship was

[1:40:38] developing, I think.

[1:40:40] And now that I look back, I think it was

[1:40:41] more like

[1:40:42] keep your enemies close type of play,

[1:40:45] you know? And if I get this guy to write

[1:40:47] for me and work for me before he gets

[1:40:48] too big, then I don't have to worry

[1:40:50] about the competition. I can control him

[1:40:52] and stuff, right? Um but at the time I

[1:40:54] was flattered by it. But as I'm again

[1:40:57] like I went into this experience with a

[1:40:59] totally different idea painted in my

[1:41:00] mind of what Bentinho was like and what

[1:41:04] it would be like to be in his community,

[1:41:05] you know, based on the glamorous YouTube

[1:41:08] videos that he would post and

[1:41:10] you know, my the the reality didn't map

[1:41:12] on at all to my assumptions.

[1:41:15] And so it's it's a bit disorienting to

[1:41:16] like

[1:41:18] you know, you're taking in all this data

[1:41:19] of like, "Is this really how this place

[1:41:21] really is and who this person really

[1:41:22] is?"

[1:41:23] But just the constant, again, leaky

[1:41:26] sexual energy 24/7 cra- crass sex jokes

[1:41:29] all the time, like very junior high, you

[1:41:32] know, potty mouth humor from a

[1:41:34] 31-year-old man. And it started to

[1:41:36] really put me off and

[1:41:38] and again, this is just what I was

[1:41:39] seeing as still technically an outsider.

[1:41:42] Like wasn't quite in the inner circle

[1:41:44] yet, hadn't been around very long to

[1:41:45] know the true level of abuse and

[1:41:48] manipulation that was going on.

[1:41:50] But it reminded me of of, you know,

[1:41:51] Jade's story in the second interview you

[1:41:53] did with her,

[1:41:54] where she describes this woman in their

[1:41:55] group

[1:41:57] ex- expressing a sexual trauma of rape,

[1:42:00] and Bentinho's laughing it off and

[1:42:01] trying to make it no big deal,

[1:42:03] and then immediately tells Jade, and

[1:42:05] Corey, I think, to go upstairs with him

[1:42:07] and reenact this rape trauma.

[1:42:10] And it's like nothing could be a bigger

[1:42:12] red flag than that, you know? Finding

[1:42:15] someone else's rape trauma to be

[1:42:16] arousing is hallmark negative polarity

[1:42:20] influence.

[1:42:21] You know, the negative polarity uses

[1:42:23] sexual energy to dominate and control,

[1:42:26] and it's always about a dominant and a

[1:42:27] submissive, right? Uh slave and a

[1:42:29] master.

[1:42:30] And

[1:42:31] you know, you just

[1:42:33] it would have been hard for me to accept

[1:42:34] that those things were happening when I

[1:42:36] was there, because again, he puts on a

[1:42:38] bit of a front, but

[1:42:40] you know, you can't hide the truth for

[1:42:41] long, man, and Jesus said it best, I

[1:42:43] think,

[1:42:44] when he said, "There's nothing hidden

[1:42:46] that will not be revealed."

[1:42:47] And be careful what you do in secret,

[1:42:50] for what you do in the secret place will

[1:42:52] be shouted from the mountaintops.

[1:42:55] And I think that's a karmic law that

[1:42:56] Jesus was teaching there. And uh case in

[1:42:59] point here with all of Bentinho's dark

[1:43:01] secrets coming to light, right?

[1:43:05] I really enjoyed this conversation.

[1:43:07] Likewise, man. Thank you so much for

[1:43:09] sharing your heart. Thank you. Yeah, my

[1:43:12] pleasure.

Bentinho Massaro
ArtistBentinho Massaro

Amsterdam-born spiritual teacher who blends Advaita-Vedanta, Dzogchen Buddhism, and modern spirituality into a non-dogmatic path that helps people realize they are the One Infinite…

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Law-of-oneService-to-selfRa-materialSpiritual-abuseCult-dynamics

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Frequently Asked Questions

Service-to-self is one of the two polarities described in the Law of One, the channeled text from the 1980s. In the conversation, Aaron Abke argues that the text describes negative beings by how they use knowledge, spiritual language, and psychological manipulation to control others, not by how they label critics.
Abke says that watching the Inst@Guru interviews made pieces fall into place from his own encounter with Massaro years earlier. He reached out to Jacqueline, Keilan, and Jade, and says he could not stay silent about the teachings being used as a weapon.
That is the central claim of the episode. Host Mark Vicente argues that STS, a term drawn from the Law of One, is deployed to dismiss and isolate anyone who pushes back, and Abke argues the text itself describes this pattern.
Abke is a spiritual teacher who grew up as a third-generation pastor's son, earned a bachelor's in music and theology, and worked as a worship pastor before leaving evangelical Christianity around age 23. He later built his work on the Law of One and A Course in Miracles, and moved to full-time online teaching in August 2019.
The episode describes Jacqueline, Keilan, and Jade as having spoken out against Massaro, and says their critics are often dismissed as not having understood the teachings. The conversation does not present the defectors' full accounts; it focuses on Abke's reading of the Law of One.
The Law of One is a channeled text from the 1980s, produced by researchers who had worked with a group of twelve channelers. According to Abke, its central insight was that understanding advanced beings means studying their spirituality and philosophy as well as their technology.

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