Transcript
[0:00] Hello and welcome to Two Family
Constellations Facilitators React
[0:05] to the Netflix show, Another Self.
[0:08] I'm Rachel Alexandria.
[0:10] I'm a former psychotherapist turned
executive coach and also a family
[0:15] constellations facilitator since 2010
[0:19] Hi, I'm Lisa, and I am a family
constellations facilitator and trainer.
[0:25] I've been facilitating since 2014, and
I'm excited to be here with you, Rachel.
[0:30] I'm excited for this
[0:33] Me too.
[0:34] Me too.
[0:35] So w- the reason we are recording this
video is, both of us have noticed in
[0:40] our family constellations practices
that more people have been coming to
[0:45] our workshops because they found out
about family constellations work due to
[0:50] this show, which is called Another Self.
[0:52] It's a Turkish series.
[0:54] probably if you're watching
this video, you already know
[0:57] about it because otherwise, why?
[0:59] Why would you watch this?
[1:01] people are fascinated by this really
wonderful, rich drama about three
[1:08] female friends' lives, and the
changes that they go through, both
[1:12] dealing with obstacles in life and
difficulties, sicknesses relational and
[1:18] interpersonal problems related to them
all starting to go to workshops, which
[1:25] are essentially family constellations,
and they show a great deal of
[1:30] constellations-type work in this series.
[1:34] So Lisa and I wanted to get together and
talk about what's accurate, what's real,
[1:39] what is dramatization and just answer
questions for folks who really like this
[1:46] show and are like, "Well, is this crazy,
magical thing actually a real thing?"
[1:52] I'm so excited to, dive into this
because there's so many people that
[1:55] know about this Another Self, the, the
series, and it's such a beautiful way
[2:01] to understand family constellations.
[2:03] But just like you said, you know, people
are wondering then, is it really real?
[2:08] Is it just, you know, a series that
they made to entertain and this is
[2:11] actually nothing that happens in reality?
[2:15] So, I'm excited to dive from the
perspective of family constellations
[2:19] into the series so that people
can understand all these dynamics.
[2:24] So let's get into the first clip
from the show that we have queued up.
[2:30] I believe that it's when one of the main
characters first meets Zaman, who is
[2:37] the person who leads the constellations.
[2:40] So let's pull this up
[3:31] So that's how this character meets him.
[3:35] She's coming in because she's saying,
"I have a life-threatening illness and,
[3:39] you know, I've been doing medical stuff,
but I think maybe your alternative
[3:44] treatment could help me." First of
all, let's talk about, you know,
[3:49] how much can family constellations
actually do something to help people
[3:55] with life-threatening illnesses?
[3:57] Like, what's your take on this?
[3:58] Has this ever happened to you, that
someone comes to your work and says,
[4:02] "I'm coming because I wanna work
on my life-threatening illness"?
[4:06] I haven't had that many people
with life-threatening illness.
[4:10] I have had many people
with different illnesses.
[4:13] And with family constellations, what
I have understood is that there's
[4:17] nothing that's written in stone.
[4:19] There's nothing that we can say that
it's the same for everybody because
[4:22] everybody has different experiences,
they have different family systems, they
[4:26] have different trauma in their lives.
[4:28] So everybody's gonna be
completely, completely different.
[4:31] I've had people that have had chronic
illnesses that improve a lot and that
[4:38] they actually have, you know, they, they
stop taking the medicine that they're
[4:42] taking from the perspective of the
doctor, you know, guided by the doctor.
[4:47] And I have people that still have the
illness but improve their lives a lot.
[4:53] Even with the illnesses, like
they are at peace with it.
[4:56] And I have people that have less changes.
[4:58] I've seen everything, and what I've
noticed is that there's like this sense
[5:04] at peace and improvement, and people come
to look at the root cause of the illness.
[5:10] But it's not the only
thing that they're doing.
[5:12] They're with their doctors, they're with
a nutritionist, they're doing meditation.
[5:17] So
[5:18] it's like,
[5:19] I think it's all together, you
[5:21] Yeah, we would, neither of us would ever
recommend only doing family constellations
[5:27] to work on your medical problem.
[5:29] Partly because in the United States
that would be very very actionable.
[5:35] Like, that would make
us sue-able essentially.
[5:39] In the United States you have to
be very careful about claiming
[5:42] that things can do anything like
heal people if it's not medicine.
[5:48] Yeah, I, and I notice I'm always, like,
very cautious when people come and
[5:53] say, "I have this really significant
physical problem" because my experience,
[5:59] I, for me, I believe that alternative
treatments in addition to lots of
[6:05] things can help me recover, can
help me get into a different place.
[6:10] I have absolutely healed things for
myself such that they do not have
[6:16] much reoccurrence or they're much less
strong, and I've done it through things
[6:19] like family constellations, probably
in addition to other interventions.
[6:25] But yeah, If someone came to me with
saying, "I have cancer do you think
[6:31] your treatment can help me?" I'd be
like, "Well, it can't hurt," you know?
[6:35] And probably you'll get some
perspective at the very least.
[6:39] You might get something that helps
change the course of what's happening.
[6:45] But yeah, I would be very cautious
in what I advise, and at the same
[6:48] time internally I'd be like, "Maybe."
[6:51] You know, I just probably
wouldn't say maybe out loud.
[6:54] I'd be like, "You're gonna get something.
You're, it's going to help support
[6:59] your entire picture of treatment."
So what he calls it, Do you remember
[7:04] what, what Zaman calls the work?
[7:07] The expansion of,
[7:10] of family or something.
[7:11] family, something like that
[7:13] that's part of why when people
watch season one of this
[7:16] show, they have to look it up.
[7:18] They're like, "What is this thing
that's happening, and is this a
[7:21] real thing?" Because he's not in
this, first season of the show,
[7:25] which has gone for three seasons.
[7:27] He doesn't refer to it
as family constellations.
[7:31] But you told me something really
interesting about this man
[7:35] Yeah.
[7:36] You know, it's interesting because
I actually had a client that came
[7:39] to me and said that she knows
him, and he's actually a family
[7:44] constellations facilitator in Turkey.
[7:46] and it makes sense because
the whole series really talks
[7:51] about the foundations of family
constellations throughout the series.
[7:55] there had to be many people
that really know about family
[7:58] constellations behind it to be able
to do it, and do it so beautifully
[8:03] Yeah, definitely.
[8:04] Definitely uh, people know about it.
[8:06] And the way that he does it, at least in
some of the first ways that they show it,
[8:12] feel definitely like a variation to me.
[8:16] They don't feel like the traditional
way that I learned and, and maybe not
[8:21] like the tr- you and I learned from
slightly different lineages, right?
[8:26] But yeah, it definitely feels so
close that it's like, well, it's
[8:31] obviously a branch of this or
someone's, evolution of the work.
[8:37] Which I actually love because there's
a lot of purists in the family.
[8:42] There's, just like any… For those who
don't know, when you get into any kind
[8:47] of serious modality, there's always
gonna be be people who are like, "No,
[8:51] the originator made it this way, and
this is the only way you can do it."
[8:55] And then of course, there's other
people who are like, "There's…" No,
[8:59] I mean, everyone gets to innovate it
with how it works for their system,
[9:04] as long as you're still in integrity
to, to helping people, right?
[9:09] So he's clearly come from a
different lineage or innovated
[9:13] it in some sort of way
[9:15] So my style looks quite similar to his
style of doing family constellations.
[9:21] And something that that I wanted
to share what you were saying
[9:23] about family constellations.
[9:24] A story that I heard again, a story
I, I wasn't there, I cannot tell you
[9:28] if it's true, but my understanding
is that they told Bert Hellinger,
[9:32] "Please put like an institution.
[9:33] Please put a format.
[9:34] Please say constellations are like this:
A, B, C, D." And he said, "No, because
[9:40] that's gonna put like a jail into the
format of family constellations and a
[9:44] structure that's not gonna be be- able
to be flexible and to adapt." He said,
[9:48] "I'm not gonna do that because I want
constellations to, to change with time,
[9:52] with people, to the circumstances."
[9:55] And I think that's a gift because, you
know, you see constellations with, with
[9:58] horses, with water, the very traditional
way, something in the middle, something…
[10:03] You know, recently I saw somebody
doing it with astrology and bringing
[10:07] the, the aspects of astrology and it's
like it, it really has adapted in so
[10:12] many different ways to the person, to
the situation, to the, to the place.
[10:16] I think that's a gift, and I think that it
will continue to evolve, but this is why
[10:22] you might find so many different types,
and it's still family constellations,
[10:26] but they look completely different
[10:28] Yeah, and people might call it
something different, especially if
[10:30] there's a translation, which I'm
kind of wondering if that's more
[10:35] what it's called in Turkey is, like,
expansion of the family or whatever.
[10:39] Hmm,
[10:40] maybe.
[10:41] Yeah.
[10:42] thought about that.
[10:42] Maybe
[10:43] the… One of the traditional ways
that I learned is you start with
[10:47] getting a genogram of the family.
[10:49] I don't do this in my work.
[10:51] I mean, it might come up if
it needs to when I'm doing
[10:54] the interview with a client.
[10:56] But yeah, there's definitely people out
there that are like, "You can only do it
[11:01] this way" And it's like Bert Hellinger,
who was the originator of the work
[11:04] under the name Family Constellations,
he innovated throughout his life.
[11:10] And so when people look at the recordings
and say, "This is how he's doing it,
[11:14] you have to do it this way" It's like,
well, that was, like, 40 years ago.
[11:17] he didn't still do it
this way 40 years later.
[11:21] So yeah, I was, I was excited to see…
I, I like… I love seeing different
[11:26] facilitators and how they do it.
[11:27] And then in some part of me also is
like, "No, I wouldn't do it that way."
[11:33] So let's look at this next clip because
I think part of what you see in this next
[11:37] thing is how much he's in his intuition,
his intuitive understanding, and not
[11:45] every facilitator works like this.
[11:48] So, you'll see some of how he
processes, So you'll be seeing
[11:53] Sevgi from the first clip, and it's,
was it a month later, I believe?
[11:59] It's, like, a month later after she's
gone to Constellations, and we haven't
[12:05] yet in the show seen anything of what
happened because Zaman tells her,
[12:09] "Don't talk about it for a month."
[12:12] that's his prescription for everybody.
[12:13] You, you went through a n-
a Constellations experience.
[12:16] Now don't talk about it for a month.
[12:18] So now she's about to explain
to her friends what happened
[13:00] So here, like that is such a short
journey from setting a representative
[13:07] to them immediately getting very
deep and specific to a memory, which
[13:13] he has not instructed them to do,
and he immediately knows the age.
[13:17] What do you say about that?
[13:18] What do you think about that?
[13:20] So I have no idea on how
he thought of the age.
[13:24] I think that's a little bit,
like, extremely specific.
[13:27] And at the same time, there's m- my style
of doing family constellations, the way
[13:32] that my teacher you know, understands
the phenomenological movements.
[13:37] You know, when somebody goes down to
the ground, it's usually connected with
[13:41] somebody dead, that they're looking
at somebody dead in the family system.
[13:45] For sure
[13:46] so that part I have seen in, you
know, similarities, that it's like
[13:52] th- they're looking at somebody dead.
[13:53] Like, there's a death, they're
attached, they're connected to that.
[13:56] The part, you know, sometimes the
representative might say, "I feel
[14:01] like a little girl." And then you
say, "Oh, you know, maybe something
[14:04] happened when you were a child."
[14:06] I haven't seen something as specific
of, you know, five and six years, but
[14:10] I have seen representatives, like,
say, "I, I feel like a little girl.
[14:13] I feel like a little boy." And suddenly,
you know, I'm looking at the ground and
[14:17] and then kind of like you ask, you know,
"Does this make sense to you?" And at
[14:22] the same time, I love that they do it
like this in the f- in, you know, in the
[14:26] series, how they connect all those dots
and explanations because, you know, you
[14:30] get the stories that we're not able to
get when we're doing the constellations
[14:34] with so little information, so
[14:36] Yeah.
[14:37] I think this is one of the
parts I totally agree with you.
[14:41] And I, I think what I wanna highlight
about what's different from going
[14:44] to a live workshop versus this
TV show is this is a dramatis,
[14:50] dramatis… I can't say that word.
[14:52] They have made this more dramatic than
it would be in an actual workshop.
[14:58] My experience is a representative when
set up, sometimes people do react very
[15:04] intensely very quickly, but my experience
is that a person wouldn't move that fast
[15:11] from being set up to immediately going and
into, like, such intense emotion without
[15:18] other representatives to react with.
[15:21] My experience is that it would
take a little bit more time.
[15:24] It's kind of like tea.
[15:25] It needs to steep a bit.
[15:27] And it might be more like something
happening if there were other
[15:31] representatives set up also.
[15:33] But he, as far as we see in
the show, he hasn't told any
[15:37] of them any of the content.
[15:39] Sevgi's come in.
[15:40] He's been like, "Pick a
representative." She picks one,
[15:43] and something immediately happens.
[15:46] I would say that is faster and more
dramatic than it would be in a real-life
[15:52] workshop, and it does depend on the
facilitator because each facilitator sets
[15:58] their container and their group, you know.
[16:01] And so he's a highly intuitive man.
[16:03] My teacher was like this also.
[16:05] He just saw things.
[16:08] 'Cause I asked him at one
point, "How did you know this?"
[16:11] And he's like, "I see golden
lines, and I see things
[16:13] connected." And I was like, "Whoa.
[16:15] Very mystical man." So it could be that
this facilitator just has that ability
[16:22] somehow when people come into his
field, what we call the knowing field,
[16:26] that that's part of what he evokes.
[16:28] But I do think this is sped up and
dramaticized for the sake of the show.
[16:34] So
[16:34] wanted to add that yes, conste- because
constellations take a long time.
[16:40] I mean, I don't know how long you
take with the constellations, but
[16:43] they're usually half an hour, one hour.
[16:45] I've seen people do them in three hours.
[16:48] So I mean, if you have a series of
one, you know, of one hour and you
[16:54] really need to speed things up, so I
understand behind why they would do it.
[16:59] They cannot take the time
that it usually takes.
[17:02] They usually take a long
time, and movements are slow
[17:05] like you were saying, Rachel.
[17:06] And they cannot do it that way
if they wanna make an, a, you
[17:09] know, an entertaining series, so
[17:12] Oh yeah, it totally makes sense.
[17:13] Like you have to speed it up for
the sake of a viewing audience.
[17:17] I think people also understand you don't
get fit in a 10-second montage, right?
[17:22] Like you have to speed things up
so that people who are just sitting
[17:26] and watching can take it in.
[17:27] But agreed, the workshops tend
to take longer per constellation.
[17:33] The good news is when you're inside of
the container in the field, it will feel
[17:37] like it moves much faster, but it doesn't.
[17:39] People will be like, "We've been doing
this for an hour?" Like they have no idea.
[17:43] Okay, let's see what happens.
[17:45] This is Sevgi going into her
memory as he suggests what
[17:48] happens when you were five or six
[18:22] So Zaman's brought in a
representative now for the father
[18:26] And can you pop
[18:53] So here, instead of showing what
happened, they are letting the
[18:59] constellation move through what the
people who were involved need to process.
[19:06] now they're starting to dive into
what, what is the deeper truth,
[19:09] not just the events that happened
[19:12] Yes.
[19:12] And I think you saw the, the
murderer there that's crying also,
[19:17] and that's showing like the, you
know, he didn't want to kill.
[19:21] He wanted to only hurt, and
it's that heaviness that he also
[19:25] carried because of what happened.
[19:26] So they're representing it that way.
[19:29] It's not that that actually happened, that
the murderer was there crying with them.
[19:33] That's part of, like, the
resolution of the constellation,
[19:36] of understanding all the different
parts that that was connected to.
[19:41] And and I love how they represent and see
the constellation and see the image of
[19:49] the story of the mom on top of, of Sevki,
showing how she became a burden and that
[19:56] Sevki is carrying now the, the, the grief,
the, of her mom that lost her husband, and
[20:02] her mom started depending on Sevki, and
Sevki became the responsible, the parent,
[20:08] the one that had to take care of the mom
[20:11] Yeah.
[20:12] Yeah, I didn't finish showing that
part, but we can go back because
[20:16] that's part of what they're implying
is related to causing her cancer.
[20:23] I mean, we wanna be careful again in the
United States of saying that emotions
[20:28] cause illnesses, but we do know medically,
scientifically that stress absolutely
[20:36] decreases your health and can be at
the root of a lot of health problems.
[20:42] So, I think would it be useful
here to explain to folks what are
[20:46] the stages of a constellation?
[20:50] Because, you know, you said that
this is moving into a resolution.
[20:53] Can we- you wanna talk a little
bit more about the stages of
[20:56] what happens in a constellation?
[20:59] That for sure, and I'm wondering if
there's different stages for you and for
[21:03] me 'cause we do it in different ways.
[21:05] So I'll explain my s- you know, the
way of doing constellations, and
[21:10] then I would love for you to explain
yours and see the differences.
[21:12] I, People you know, get a,
a constellation, and I don't
[21:16] do a previous interview.
[21:18] I know some people do interviews
before they actually do the
[21:21] constellation in a group session
[21:23] Like we saw with Zaman.
[21:24] Like,
[21:25] yeah
[21:26] Yeah.
[21:26] But I don't do a previous interview,
and I don't want to know a lot
[21:31] of details about the client.
[21:32] I just want to know the
topic in a few words.
[21:35] So I ask the client, you
know, "What's your topic?"
[21:37] And and I'm gonna explain
the group session.
[21:40] So the client sits beside me.
[21:42] The client says, "This is my topic."
And according to what the topic is,
[21:46] I ask her to choose representatives.
[21:50] So if there's a specific issue,
it might be the client and the
[21:54] issue, so two representatives.
[21:57] Sometimes, you know, I have a lot
of clients that come, and they wanna
[22:00] work with abundance, and abundance has
a clear connection with our mother.
[22:05] So I-- and part of the way that
I do constellations is always
[22:09] to test internally, like to get
some guidance on the next steps.
[22:14] So it's not so much mental, but
more like connecting to guidance.
[22:17] So for example, if somebody wants to do
abundance, then I connect to guidance
[22:21] and see if I'm gonna represent the client
abundance, and and the issue of not
[22:26] having abundance and, or, or the mother.
[22:30] So I see who needs to be represented.
[22:31] I ask the client to choose.
[22:34] The client doesn't get up and touch.
[22:36] That's another style.
[22:37] The client sitting down chooses the
representatives, and the representatives
[22:41] just stand up and start connecting
to the field, to the energy, to
[22:45] the movement, to the emotions.
[22:47] And according to what they are connecting
to gives us information, and I tell
[22:54] the client to say the healing phrases.
[22:56] I don't tell the representatives to
see the-- to say the healing phrases.
[22:59] I only tell the client.
[23:01] And after the client says the
healing phrases, we see what that
[23:05] causes and the movements of the
representatives, and that's how we
[23:08] continue doing the constellation
[23:11] Interesting.
[23:13] Yeah, cool.
[23:14] I don't do a pre-interview
like they showed with Sevgi.
[23:19] Like I don't meet a client
beforehand and have a conversation
[23:22] about what they wanna work on.
[23:24] I, and, and yeah, facilit- lots of
facilitators do things differently.
[23:28] Lots of facilitators have the
client for constellations picked
[23:33] out ahead of the workshop.
[23:35] I offer open workshops most of the
time where, like a group of people
[23:40] can come and the clients for the
work will show up, will rise up out
[23:45] of the… whoever shows up that day.
[23:49] So I definitely don't do pre-interviews.
[23:52] The way I was taught, I'll
invite people in the group to say
[23:55] what they might wanna work on.
[23:57] Usually they'll be Anywhere from three to
five or six people who say, "Yeah, I, I
[24:03] feel like I wanna work something today."
And I'll go around the room and just be
[24:07] like, "Give me just, like, a snippet of
what it is." You know, some- somebody'll
[24:11] be like, "Oh, I, you know, my mom and I
have always had problems." And some people
[24:15] will try to go into, like, a whole story.
[24:19] Like my trainer before me, I try to
keep them to a short thing, and at the
[24:25] same time, what I've noticed over the
years is that some people have such a
[24:31] need to express, and sometimes cutting
off that expression does more harm.
[24:38] So for, for me, like, I, like it's
… it, it damages some of the trust.
[24:45] So it depends on h- where they're at.
[24:47] Like, I kinda feel it out, and I
feel out the temperament of the room.
[24:50] If people are kind of like, "Oh, okay
already" , then I'm like, "Okay, I feel
[24:54] like I have enough, thank you." And some
people I'll just say, "You know, I, I
[24:58] don't need to … Like, let's keep the
… let's not go too much into the story.
[25:02] Let's just … give me, give me,
like, the title of the book," right?
[25:07] And then when I choose a client
from the room, I'm doing that
[25:12] with guidance or intuitively.
[25:13] Like, I sort of sit and tune in,
and my question is always, "Whose
[25:17] constellation in this moment is going
to best serve everyone here?" So it
[25:25] is less about serving a client who's
pre-picked beforehand, and more about
[25:30] everyone who comes to the workshop is
going to get something that they need.
[25:34] That is always my orientation.
[25:37] So then someone just kind of highlights
in my head, and I'll bring them forward.
[25:41] They come sit down by me, and then
I do a little bit of an interview.
[25:45] And it … Like, I don't
need lots of information.
[25:48] I'm just looking for enough to
get the sense of where to start.
[25:53] And so if they give me very little,
I might ask a couple more questions.
[25:57] Like, I might ask family tree questions,
How many siblings did mom have?" You know?
[26:04] Or, or What's your current relationship
with your father?" Or whatever.
[26:08] That might come in.
[26:09] If somebody's given … like, trying
to give a lot, I'm like, "Okay,
[26:12] let's … again, let's keep it … Let's
see what shows up in the field."
[26:17] I do invite people to go up
and make physical contact.
[26:21] That's probably half because I
think it's more convincing and
[26:26] supportive for people's brains
who are experiencing it, honestly.
[26:31] So yeah, I see that it
can work either way.
[26:33] Like, I absolutely believe that it
can work where a person just says,
[26:37] "You over there, you over there."
And actually, in my constellations,
[26:42] people, even though I show ahead of
time how to pick representatives,
[26:46] people often lately are just kind
of like wanting to point at people.
[26:50] So we'll see if I make an adjustment.
[26:52] Maybe my work is evolving
where we don't need to do that.
[26:56] For people who are brand new, I kind
of feel like it's just n- it feels more
[27:00] real, but maybe I'm the one stuck on
it and it's not needed, so we'll see.
[27:06] But I was trained, like you get up, you
make physical contact, you put, you know,
[27:10] the person who's the client puts their
hands onto the hands of the person who's
[27:15] the representative, and they make eye
contact while the client thinks about the
[27:20] one this person is going to represent,
and they tell us out loud who it is.
[27:25] And so there's just kind of a, there's
a deepening, especially for people
[27:29] who've never represented before because
their analytical mind can get in the
[27:35] way of the information they start
getting, and then they get like, "Well,
[27:39] I don't know if this is me," you know?
[27:42] What we're seeing with Zaman's
constellations also is obviously a group
[27:47] of people who have done this repeatedly.
[27:49] So there's not much in terms
of any of that confusion.
[27:54] so he's saying to the mom, Can you
be with your, like connect with your
[27:59] husband?" And she's like, "No, I'm
completely focused on my daughter
[28:26] So that's the part you were mentioning.
[28:29] So, and we were gonna talk about the
stages of a constellation, right?
[28:33] So for me, there's the setup, right?
[28:37] There's what the client says
that they want to work on.
[28:41] The initial setup is the cast of
characters that I feel are applicable
[28:47] to what they've got going on, which
they may be like, "Oh yeah, I have
[28:51] a problem with my sister, so it
makes sense to represent my father,
[28:54] my mother, and my sister, and me."
[28:57] But it might be you know, I'm having a
hard time, like you say, with abundance,
[29:02] and so I get the sense of like, just
like you, like, oh, does, you know,
[29:07] does a parent need to be brought in?
[29:08] Does it need to… And w- like a lot
of times I'll represent money itself.
[29:14] Somebody might be like, "Oh, I'm having
trouble with a romantic relationship,
[29:19] like finding who I want to be with."
[29:22] And if I ask a bunch of questions,
I hear that maybe there's something
[29:26] going on with a brother or whatever.
[29:28] Like all that to say the initial setup,
sometimes it's super obvious probably
[29:34] to people who are listening and to
the client like, "Yes, these are the
[29:37] people I'm having the problems with."
And sometimes it might be like I get
[29:41] an intuition to set up something that
might seem on the surface unrelated.
[29:46] The representatives come in, they are
set up, the client observes, and then
[29:53] I start to move around the circle.
[29:54] So I do this differently than we initially
see with… Well, no, I guess we see
[30:00] Zeman go over and interact with people.
[30:02] So at first I'm just
taking the temperature.
[30:05] I'm seeing, I'm asking each person
to report how they're doing, what
[30:09] they're noticing, and I'm also
standing in the constellation next
[30:13] to people and with people so I can
start to use my body as an instrument
[30:17] to feel what they are also feeling.
[30:20] I think this is similar for you, yeah?
[30:24] Sometimes I stay sitting down the
whole time, sometimes I stand up,
[30:27] sometimes I represent as well.
[30:29] It's different each time.
[30:31] Hmm.
[30:32] Most of the times I'm sitting down
[30:34] Interesting.
[30:35] I've… Yeah, I have seen other
facilitators, like I've watched Francesca
[30:39] Mason Boring facilitate that way.
[30:43] I feel like my trainer, Mark,
most of the time was up and moving
[30:46] around unless something got stuck.
[30:49] That's usually when I sit down,
is when something's taking time to
[30:53] unfold or it's just not moving at all.
[30:56] But that's kind of in like
a second stage, right?
[30:59] There's showing initially what the
client might recognize in the picture
[31:04] of the people, and then the second
stage is kind of like what truth, what
[31:11] story that the client might not have
been aware of can start to surface.
[31:17] What's been unconscious
that's being made conscious?
[31:20] And so you might see
things like how Sevgi did.
[31:23] "Oh, my mother wasn't actually at
the carnival with us, but this is
[31:28] energetically what happened. My father
was killed and my mother ran and clang to
[31:34] me… clung to me." That's energetically
what ha- So there's an unconscious
[31:39] or unaware truth that they represent.
[31:43] And then there's the third stage when the
unconsciousness the unconscious things
[31:47] start to come up to be spoken about.
[31:51] There's, like some relief in
just that sometimes, in naming
[31:54] things and in seeing them.
[31:57] And then there's, like a
final step, I would say, and
[32:00] these are pretty loose, right?
[32:02] They're kind of happening over time
like a, like a movie, like it's a
[32:06] beginning, middle, end kind of thing.
[32:08] The final stage is like, what…
h- where can we bring this in
[32:13] resolution for what this particular
constellation wants right now?
[32:19] You know, and sometimes it's
doing some acknowledgments.
[32:23] You know, you see, Zaman saying to the
mother, "Can you make a different choice
[32:27] here?" The mother's representative.
[32:29] And she says, "No, I cannot."
[32:31] But we don't see the rest of that
constellation at this time in the show,
[32:35] so we don't know what happened next.
[32:37] Based on how we see Sevgi with
her mother, I wonder if that one,
[32:43] she wasn't… They weren't able to
get the mother to make a different
[32:46] choice because she was too fixated.
[32:49] But sometimes, yeah, constellations
might end up with a big group hug because
[32:53] everyone's said what they need to say.
[32:55] They've seen each other differently.
[32:57] They've received support, and then
they can actually come together
[33:00] and be supportive of each other.
[33:02] And sometimes people are very stuck, and
the main movement is just that the client
[33:08] now understands something different, and
they are m- able to move into a little
[33:13] bit of more of acceptance or a little
bit more of letting something go, but
[33:17] it is some kind of further resolution.
[33:20] That's what I would
see as the, the stages.
[33:23] What about you?
[33:24] Yeah similar and in the sense that also
it doesn't go like A, B, C, D. But it's
[33:32] like, the family constellations are
always so, you know, different, varied,
[33:36] and many things happen at the same time.
[33:39] So in my constellations then the,
there's the client here with an
[33:42] ancestor, and maybe there's the
mother here with something else going
[33:46] on, and something here going on.
[33:48] It's like several movies
going on at the same time.
[33:52] So you kind of like look a little
bit at this one, look at this one.
[33:55] This one is resolved.
[33:56] Look at this one.
[33:57] This is not resolved yet.
[33:58] You go back to this one, then you
go back to this one, and it's like
[34:01] all together at the same time.
[34:03] So it's a… What you shared, but not in
order, but like kind of like all together
[34:09] and, and happening at the same time.
[34:11] And what we want is there's that
acknowledgement, that understanding,
[34:15] that awareness and that shift
that, where the representative the
[34:19] c- of the client or the client,
there's this moment that a release.
[34:24] Like things… And again, each
constellation is gonna look different
[34:28] according to the client, the life, the
work that they've done on their own.
[34:32] I've noticed a difference when clients
have been doing a lot of personal
[34:35] work and when this is the first thing
that they ever do of any kind of work.
[34:39] So they just look so different
[34:42] They do.
[34:44] Yeah, I love that you mentioned that
kind of the multiple things happening.
[34:48] The example we just saw is one where it's
a very, it's a very deep and poignant
[34:55] experience, but it's very simple.
[34:57] There is a dead person who, in this
constellation, he's not having her
[35:01] interact with h- her father's spirit at
all, so it's really just her experience
[35:07] and then her mother's experience.
[35:08] So there's just this one thing happening.
[35:11] And sometimes constellations can
be like that, where there's less
[35:14] there's fewer things to manage.
[35:17] I have similar experience to you where
a lotta times, you know, it's like, oh,
[35:21] we're gonna bring in mother and father
and, you know, a sibling or something
[35:26] like that, and then it promptly becomes
the sibling's having a thing going on
[35:30] with the client, the father's absent and
we need to bring in something for him,
[35:35] and so then he's having a process with
his ancestor, and then the mother's do-
[35:39] And my trainer used to refer to it as
a thir- a three-ring circus, and part
[35:43] of the facilitator's job is to be the
ringmaster because they are all doing
[35:48] different things at different times.
[35:50] And he, sometimes he would be like,
"There are three or four constellations
[35:54] happening in this moment." I think when
you first get started with facilitation,
[36:00] the goal is to keep it as small as
possible so that you can manage because
[36:04] it takes a while to develop the ability
to track all the different movements and
[36:10] keep attending to them in a timely…
[36:12] It's like cooking, right?
[36:14] You first gotta learn to cook an egg
and then maybe you can start to learn to
[36:18] make a, beef bourguignon, which is like
all timings and attentions and yeah.
[36:24] So here we've seen an important but a
very, like, small scope of a constellation
[36:31] And that would make sense for a series.
[36:33] You know, you cannot start explaining
all these different… And you know,
[36:37] Rachel, the way that my teacher does,
because she has now she travels to
[36:42] many countries, and she has 100 to 100
people at the same time, you know, there
[36:47] when she's doing the constellations.
[36:48] And she says, "Whoever feels called
to participate, you stand up and
[36:53] you start representing, and we
don't know what you're gonna be
[36:55] representing." So sometimes you start
a constellation, and in three minutes
[37:00] you have 20 people representing
[37:03] I need to go see your teacher 'cause
[37:06] Oh, she's gonna be in LA
[37:08] Ooh.
[37:09] Yeah, you have to send me the details.
[37:10] I feel like my work is wanting to expand
to do bigger groups also, and I would
[37:15] love to see that exam- 'cause I've never
seen anybody… Everybody I've ever seen
[37:20] facilitate, all the different teachers
I've seen, have tighter reins on things.
[37:26] I very rarely see people who are
more expansive like that, which is
[37:30] kind of more how I am and like to be.
[37:33] So I would love to, I would love to be
inspired by that and be taught by that.
[37:38] Well, those are the clips that we have
of the first episode, because the first
[37:44] episode of this show is setting up a
lot more of the emotional stakes and
[37:47] the friendships and, and other things
about their ongoing current lives.
[37:52] As the series goes on, we see
more things of constellations and
[37:56] other members of this group go
through their own experiences.
[38:01] So we will get to those in further videos.
[38:04] But it'd be helpful for us to know if
you liked this, if you're interested
[38:08] in more, you know, reactions to the
show Another Self, and what questions
[38:13] you have about family constellations,
because you've got two constellations
[38:18] facilitators here ready to answer
[38:21] Yeah.
[38:21] Well, thank you so much for,
for your time, Rachel, and
[38:23] yeah, for doing this with me.
[38:25] I'm really so excited about this.
[38:26] I love the series, and I love
what it has brought to the
[38:29] world of family constellations.
[38:30] So I look forward to our
next time getting together
[38:34] Yeah, me too