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Inspiration

The Relaxed Fighter: Calm, Restraint, and the Fight Within

Jon Brooks
Jon Brooks
Aug 2, 2026
11 min read
Watch · 6

Bas Rutten is remembered as one of the most punishing strikers of the early mixed martial arts era, a Dutch fighter who became a three-time King of Pancrase, later won the UFC heavyweight title, and was inducted into the Hall of Fame. In a long conversation with Jon Brooks on The Stoic Handbook, published in August 2026, Rutten makes a case that the fighting is the least interesting thing about him. The talk moves from a sick, bullied childhood to a man who spent the second half of his life learning the harder skill of not being ruled by anger, fear, alcohol, or ego. Its spine is a single fight in Japan, where a moment of unexpected calm revealed two voices inside him, one urging speed and one urging patience. That discovery becomes a working philosophy of relaxation, restraint, and self-command, one that Brooks repeatedly sets beside the Stoics.

Read · 8 sections

What changed when fighting stopped being about proving yourself?

Rutten does not begin with a theory. He begins with an admission. In his kickboxing days in Holland, he says, he was "a loose cannon." Of his nine wins, eight came in the first round and one in the second. He was powerful enough to get away with it, but he knew the approach would fail against a disciplined opponent who could control distance. "I would run out of gas for sure," he said. Pressure was the only tool he had, and he used it because he was too nervous to do anything else.

That is the detail worth sitting with. Rutten's early career was not a failure of technique so much as a failure of inner state. He was not the person he was in the gym. The anxiety in the ring was doing the fighting, and the talent was carrying the consequences. The story of his maturity, as the conversation frames it, is the story of learning to be the gym version of himself under the lights.

Why did a letter R on his fists matter?

The turning point came in Japan, and the setup reads like a tale told by someone who still finds it absurd. There were no weigh-ins. Rutten assumed the Japanese were honest and that the matchup would be fair. Then a tall man walked up to him. Rutten thought he was the promoter. He was the opponent, and he was 33 pounds heavier. When Rutten asked the promoter about it, the answer was that everybody fights everybody and there are no weight classes. Rutten's response was to act unbothered while, as he put it, inside he was thinking "What the heck?"

Then he learned the format: thirty minutes, no breaks, and rules he did not know. That should have been a panic moment. Instead, Rutten describes the opposite. He reasoned that if he started at full pressure, he would have to sustain it for almost half an hour against a much bigger man. He had one minute and a half of rage to spend and twenty-eight and a half minutes of work ahead. So he did something small and specific. He wrote a large R on each hand with a marker.

The letter stood for "relax." In Dutch, the word for the state he needed was rustig, and the first letter of it became his cue. The gesture is deliberately modest, and that is the point. A fighter who has spent years running on adrenaline does not need a grand philosophy in the corner. He needs a single reminder, visible on his own body, that tells him which mode to be in. Rutten was not trying to suppress his fire. He was giving it a instruction.

What were the two voices?

The fight itself is the best evidence for the talk's central claim, and Rutten tells it with the detail of someone who still replays it. The audience in Japan was silent, so quiet that he could hear two Australians in the front row discussing whether one of them should move from Melbourne to Sydney, or the other way around. He later asked them about it afterward, and they had no idea what had happened in the ring. Rutten was calm enough to overhear them, and that calm was the first sign something had changed.

Then his opponent threw a kick, and Rutten blocked it with his shin, a move he says he had never made before. He then opened with a high kick, which he describes as drawing the opponent's guard upward. He followed with a cross that landed as a palm strike to a taller man's jaw. The man went down with a cut. Here the two voices became audible. The angry voice wanted him to rush to his corner, because the faster you get there, the sooner they start the count. The other voice told him to slow down. Rutten went with the slower one.

"I literally thinking, 'What is going on?' And I took a beat. I looked at him because he was awake. I just stared at him for a moment and then I walked very slow to my corner like take all the time you need."

Bas Rutten, on The Stoic Handbook with Jon Brooks

What makes this exchange more than a good anecdote is the reading of the room. Rutten understood that a fighter who runs to his corner looks afraid, and that a fighter who walks looks like someone who has all the time in the world. His calm was a message to his opponent, and it was also a message to himself. He was not the one who decided to walk. In his words, "It was like somebody else took it over." The knockout that followed was, in his telling, the moment when everything changed.

Rutten also admits the lesson did not hold perfectly. He describes a second fight where he lost control, and he links it to drinking two days before he got on the plane. He was sick on top of that. The fight that followed was the reminder that the calm voice is not permanent. It has to be chosen again.

Why does the relaxed fighter beat the aggressive one?

The chapter list for the conversation promises an answer to a bold claim: that the relaxed fighter beats the aggressive one nine times out of ten. Rutten's argument, as it emerges in the conversation, rests on a distinction between anger and aggression. Anger is the state in which you lose control of your own body. "Anger, you can't control yourself anymore," he says. "You start loading up." A fighter who is angry telegraphs every move, because the tension that powers a punch also announces it. Aggression, in his practice, is a more deliberate pressure that the fighter can still modulate.

He gives a concrete example from his own habits. He never looked at his opponents' eyes, because a stare meant to intimidate would push him over the top. He wanted to keep his anger out of the equation entirely. That is an unusual tactic for a fighter with his reputation, and it shows how carefully he managed his own emotional weather. The opponent's intimidation was an input, and Rutten refused to let it set his internal state.

Brooks presses on this from a Stoic angle. The relaxed fighter is not passive. He is someone who has separated what happens in front of him from how he responds to it. That separation is the same move the Stoics asked of their students, and it is the reason the conversation keeps returning to self-command rather than toughness.

What does a Stoic practice look like in the life of a fighter?

The conversation brings in Epictetus directly. Brooks refers to the Enchiridion, the short handbook of Epictetus, and Rutten's own remarks show how the idea of controlling only what is within your power has shaped his thinking. He talks about the difference between what he could control and what he could not, and how that difference became more important as his fighting career ended. The lesson he draws is not about winning arguments. It is about spending attention on the things that actually belong to you.

The video description adds a detail the transcript does not fully reach: an evening practice he has run almost every night for twelve years, which the description says Seneca would recognise immediately. Without that practice in front of us, it would be a mistake to guess its contents. What the conversation does show is a man who treats self-examination as a discipline, not a mood.

That is also the thread that connects the fight to the rest of his life. A fighter who learned to pause in the ring is a man who has learned that the pause is a skill, and skills can be trained away from the cage.

How do the drinking and the vices fit into the story?

The intro to the conversation lists what Rutten has had to master beyond the ring: anger, fear, alcohol, painkillers, and ego. He is not framed as a man who conquered them once. In the excerpt, he speaks about letting go of certain vices and how that process differs from one habit to another. "There are certain vices that there's," he says, before the conversation moves into how relapse and recommitment work. The description notes that a single word ended his drinking. The transcript material available here does not state that word, so it should not be guessed.

What stands out is the honesty of the framing. He is not presenting sobriety or restraint as a finished identity. He is presenting it as repeated choice. The same logic that made him walk slowly back to his corner applies to a glass in his hand.

What do the childhood chapters add?

Rutten's childhood, as the video outline lays it out, was defined by illness and bullying. The chapter list names a nickname, "the leper," and a story about Spider-Man and trees that the transcript excerpt does not reach. It also includes a school reunion and a reframing that the episode puts directly: "What I thought was a curse, I saw as a blessing." That line, as the chapter title renders it, carries the logic of the whole talk. The childhood that made him vulnerable is the same one that taught him how to watch his own mind.

The conversation then moves to parenting and, in a chapter titled "From bullied to bully," to the uncomfortable question of how the wounded become wounding. Brooks and Rutten trace that transition with the same honesty they apply to the ring. The concern is less about toughness than about who gets to decide how a person treats others when fear is driving the choices.

Where to go from here

The video is a long, unhurried conversation, and it rewards viewers who come to it with a specific question. If you want the fight itself, start with the Japan chapter and the two-voices moment. If you are interested in anger management, the sections on anger versus aggression and on the bouncer's approach to defusing a situation are the strongest. If you are drawn to the Stoic frame, watch for the Epictetus reference and the evening practice Rutten describes in the outline.

  • Watch for the moment Rutten describes writing a single letter on each fist before the Japan fight, and ask what cue you could place where you will see it under pressure.
  • Notice the difference between tension that powers a movement and tension that announces it. Rutten's test is whether you can still choose your next action.
  • Consider the Enchiridion of Epictetus, the text Brooks invokes, and the distinction it draws between what is within your power and what is not.
  • Treat the childhood material as a reminder that the difficulties that shaped you can also become the source of your discipline, as Rutten frames it.

Rutten's own summary, as best it can be reconstructed from the conversation, is that the hardest opponent was never the man across the ring. It was the voice that wanted to rush. Learning to hear that voice, and to choose the slower one, is the skill the talk keeps circling back to.

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Transcript

[0:00] My guest today is not a philosopher by

[0:02] trade. In the 1990s, when MMA was barely

[0:05] legal and had barely any rules, a Dutch

[0:09] fighter called Basrutin became one of

[0:11] the most feared men in the sport. He

[0:13] fought in Japan in an organization that

[0:16] predates the UFC and became its champion

[0:18] three times and then he started fighting

[0:21] in America and became the heavyweight

[0:23] UFC world champion. He retired without

[0:26] losing any of his last 22 fights and has

[0:30] the highest record for striking accuracy

[0:33] in MMA history. He's in the Hall of Fame

[0:35] and you may have seen him in the movie

[0:36] The Smashing Machine, which is a film

[0:39] about his friend Marker where he plays

[0:40] himself. So why is Bass on a stoicism

[0:43] and philosophy podcast? Well, when you

[0:45] listen to Bass talk, fighting is

[0:48] actually the least interesting part

[0:49] about him. This is a man who started

[0:51] life chronically ill, bullied as a

[0:54] child, and then built himself into the

[0:56] most dangerous man in any room, and then

[0:58] spent the second half of his life

[1:00] learning the harder skill of not being

[1:02] ruled by any of it. Not by anger, by

[1:05] fear, by alcohol, painkillers, or ego.

[1:08] He told me that stoicism is a lot like

[1:09] the principles that he lives by. And

[1:11] today, we'll find out what that means.

[1:17] Welcome, Bass. Um, let's get straight

[1:19] into it. You are remembered as one of

[1:21] the most violent finishers of your era.

[1:24] And yet, whenever I listen to you on

[1:26] podcasts or hear you talk, you sound

[1:28] very interested in calmness and

[1:31] restraint and being a good man. When did

[1:34] fighting stop being about proving

[1:36] yourself and start becoming more about

[1:39] selfmastery?

[1:40] >> Um, that's actually a good question.

[1:43] Yeah, and because I know the answer. it.

[1:45] Um, in tie boxing when I was kickboxing

[1:48] in Holland, I was just a loose cannon.

[1:52] Like I for my nine wins were eight in

[1:54] the first round and one in the second

[1:55] round. Completely lost control. I wasn't

[1:58] like the person I would be in the gym

[2:01] because I was just too nervous. I want

[2:03] to get it over with. And thankfully I

[2:05] was very powerful. So I knocked a lot of

[2:06] people out. But if I would have fought a

[2:08] really good guy who know knew how to

[2:11] control the distance, that would have

[2:13] been bad for me because I would run out

[2:14] of gas for sure. You know, there was no

[2:16] way you can continue that kind of

[2:17] pressure that I was giving to people.

[2:20] Then the change for me came in Japan. Uh

[2:24] the first it was funny because there

[2:26] were no weigh-ins and I did I I I I was

[2:29] thinking well did we talk about weight

[2:31] and and then I was thinking well the

[2:33] Japanese are very you know uh honest.

[2:36] So, I guess it's going to be okay. And

[2:38] and then when we went to the fight, the

[2:40] this tall guy walks up to me and I

[2:42] thought it was promoter. And I asked

[2:44] him, I said, "Oh, you're the promoter?"

[2:46] He says, "No, I'm fighting you today." I

[2:48] said, "You're I'm fighting you." He

[2:49] said, "What's your weight?" And he was

[2:50] like 33 pounds heavier than I was. And

[2:52] he go, "Okay." And and then the promoter

[2:54] walked up. So I'm to the promoter. I go,

[2:56] "Hey, is he not too heavy?" And he goes,

[2:58] "No, no, no. Everybody fights everybody.

[2:59] There's no weight classes." I go, "Oh,

[3:01] great." So I acted like I was all okay

[3:03] with it, but of course inside I was

[3:05] like, "What the heck?" And then when he

[3:07] walked away, I remember I said, "Hey,

[3:08] oh, by the way, how many rounds are we

[3:10] finding?" And he goes, "What?" I go,

[3:12] "Great. How many minutes?" He goes,

[3:13] "30." And that was that was the moment

[3:16] for me. I go, "Okay, now I'm facing a 33

[3:19] pound heavier guy. I never fought guys

[3:20] more than five pounds in tie boxing or

[3:22] kicking boxing in a 30 minute match with

[3:25] no breaks,

[3:26] >> which I didn't know the rules of,

[3:28] >> you know. So I I was like all new. But

[3:31] somehow that

[3:34] got me very calm because I immediately

[3:36] realized I can't start really hard

[3:39] because the Japanese fighters are known

[3:41] to be very tough and if I can't put

[3:44] within a minute, minute and a half, I

[3:45] got 28 and a half minutes more to go.

[3:47] I'm going to run out of gas. So I put

[3:49] these big Rs on my hands with a marker

[3:52] statistic and pronounce that in Holland,

[3:54] but coincidentally it start it's relax.

[3:56] It starts also with an R. So it's the

[3:58] same thing. And that was it. That was

[4:00] that was the moment when I stepped into

[4:02] the ring. And I think also the audience

[4:04] in Japan, they're completely quiet. Like

[4:06] don't say a word.

[4:07] >> If I just speak like I'm speaking right

[4:09] now, the person in the 20th row can hear

[4:11] you. That's how it is. That's it.

[4:14] >> And I think all combined

[4:16] >> completely put me in the zone. I always

[4:18] talk about that first fight. I could not

[4:20] I was thinking what is going on? Like

[4:23] literally he kicks me. I remember open

[4:26] the kick with a right kick and I block

[4:28] to the body and I block her with my shin

[4:29] and I go like that's the first time I do

[4:31] that, you know, like in my mind it's

[4:32] like and it's so calm and I hear people

[4:34] speak on the front row. Two Australian

[4:36] people were talking uh about moving from

[4:39] Melbourne to to Sydney or the other way

[4:41] around. And I I talked to them talked to

[4:43] them afterwards. I say, "Is he going to

[4:44] make the move?" Are they going to what

[4:46] the heck were you listening? I said, "I

[4:47] have no idea what happened." And that

[4:49] was I was completely in control

[4:52] everything. And that's when I realized

[4:54] there were two voices in me. There was

[4:56] the bad voice, the the the aggressive

[4:58] one who wants to go no no no. And there

[5:00] was the other voice that really kept me

[5:02] calm. And what happened? I immediately

[5:04] gave him a high kick and then I make

[5:06] another turn. But the high kick and a

[5:08] cross is almost the same movement for

[5:10] for your opponent. So the high kick

[5:12] distracted him. Then I acted like I load

[5:14] up again and I made it into a cross. And

[5:16] since he was taller, palm strike on his

[5:17] jaw, he went down and he got an eight

[5:19] cut. Now, normally in that situation, I

[5:22] would have run to my corner because I

[5:25] was, you know, the the faster you're in

[5:27] your corner, that's when they start

[5:28] counting, right? So, if I go slow, you

[5:30] give them more time to recoup.

[5:32] >> So, but some that so the angry voice is

[5:35] telling me to go fast and the other one

[5:37] says, "No, no, no, slow down, slow down,

[5:38] slow down." And I go I literally

[5:40] thinking, "What is going on?" And I'm I

[5:43] so I took a beat. I looked at him

[5:45] because he was awake. I just stared at

[5:47] him for a moment and then I walked very

[5:49] slow to my corner like take all the time

[5:52] you need. I was somehow

[5:54] >> without knowing it was controlled by by

[5:57] the by this the relaxed guy

[6:00] >> pressure on him like hey take all the

[6:02] time you need you know if I run to the

[6:03] corner he thinks oh he's afraid he wants

[6:05] to get it over with.

[6:06] >> So all that you see me in the corner

[6:07] standing and people go oh my god look at

[6:09] him he's so cool. I go like you have no

[6:11] idea what went through my head at that

[6:12] moment. It was like somebody else took

[6:14] it over and that was it. And then I

[6:16] knocked him out and and and it's scary

[6:19] very scary because he was two days out

[6:21] >> you know uh but he later became a good

[6:24] friend of mine. Um actually fought in

[6:26] Holland lived with my mom and dad for

[6:28] for like 6 weeks preparing for a fight.

[6:30] So that was kind of cool and we brought

[6:32] stuff. So he he was okay but that was

[6:35] the moment for me that everything

[6:37] changed and suddenly became it was not

[6:39] aggression anymore. Everything was relax

[6:41] and now I knew I had to be completely

[6:44] calm. You know, I let myself one time go

[6:48] um well, two times. One time was the

[6:50] second fight where I already cried,

[6:53] already kicked my butt because two days

[6:55] before I go on the plane, I had been

[6:56] drinking.

[6:57] >> Freaking idiot. Not turning this. What?

[7:00] The other guy was the number four. This

[7:01] is like the number 10. This is like, you

[7:03] know, like idiot. And uh and then I got

[7:06] sick on top of that.

[7:07] >> And I never look at the opponent's eyes

[7:09] because I know that if they stare me and

[7:11] they try to intimidate me, I go over the

[7:13] top. I get angry. And I didn't want to

[7:15] get angry at all because anger you can't

[7:17] control yourself anymore. You start

[7:18] loading up, right? If I if I'm sitting

[7:21] in front of you and you go puff, this is

[7:22] what I do in a normal fight. If I'm

[7:24] angry, I'm going to go now. I'm

[7:25] telegraphing. So, you don't want to have

[7:27] that. But I remember him. He was staring

[7:29] at me, but I was just looking at his

[7:30] belly. [clears throat] And I saw his

[7:32] belly go from the nerves and I looked at

[7:34] mine. I go, "Ah, it's going to be good."

[7:36] You know, and then the whole audience

[7:38] started going, "Oo, because apparently

[7:40] he was giving me the deaths there." And

[7:42] I remember he he I think they debate for

[7:45] a moment. So I got in his face. I go and

[7:48] [clears throat] he's like freaking out

[7:50] and the referee is petting me down and

[7:52] he says, "No speed fight, Mr. Nos." I

[7:54] said, "No, I'm okay. I'm okay." But

[7:56] while I walked away, I say, "Okay, I got

[7:58] to stay calm." Now I was very sick.

[8:00] Couldn't carry my luggage anymore. He

[8:01] got me in an arm bar. Um I wanted to

[8:04] tap, but then thankfully my ego saved me

[8:06] at that time because the audience

[8:08] started chanting for him. and I go like

[8:11] I gotta get out. So I got out of the

[8:12] arbor and then 30 seconds later I knock

[8:14] him out with a need to deliver

[8:16] >> and that was the moment for me that

[8:18] everything [clears throat]

[8:19] it it needed to happen those two fights

[8:22] now I was completely under control and

[8:24] now I knew that it doesn't matter if

[8:25] it's the number 500 in the world I'm

[8:27] going to have to go maximum actually you

[8:29] have to train harder for a guy because

[8:31] you cannot lose against the guy who's

[8:33] like the top 500 you know because you

[8:35] want to be the top guy so that's when

[8:37] everything changed with me I never

[8:40] >> ran out of gas I ever would always I

[8:43] went insanely hard with everything and

[8:45] that was that was the move that was the

[8:47] change. Suddenly I was in that game and

[8:49] I start understanding all these little

[8:52] things how to distract and and having

[8:54] fun literally having fun while I'm

[8:56] fighting. It's the most like I have ADHD

[8:59] fighting and training [clears throat]

[9:00] against higher elite level guys.

[9:02] Sparring for instance not not training

[9:05] sparring is the most peace in my head

[9:08] >> because then I got only one focus.

[9:10] >> I'm I cannot allow all that noise coming

[9:12] in that I have now looking at my plate

[9:15] that I just ate. There's a lot of stuff

[9:16] that goes through my mind all the time.

[9:18] I need to control. Need to control. But

[9:20] that was it. And that changed my career.

[9:23] And bof, I was off to a good start. It

[9:25] was insane.

[9:28] I I I I don't train MMA, but I do train

[9:31] jiu-jitsu. And I I think of it as like

[9:34] forced mindfulness, like when you're

[9:36] sparring. And I know the stakes are a

[9:38] lot higher with your training, but you

[9:40] can't think about your bills and the the

[9:43] emails that you have coming your way.

[9:44] you're just fully in the present moment,

[9:46] which is I can see why that would be

[9:48] very peaceful for someone with ADHD. Um,

[9:52] how would you help someone tap into that

[9:56] mindset and that state where the kind of

[9:58] aggression fades away and it seemed like

[10:01] you tapped into a different part of

[10:02] yourself that was more

[10:03] >> Yeah, I'm I'm I'm just talking talking

[10:05] to my students. I wish I had a coach in

[10:08] the early days when I was so angry. He

[10:10] said, "Bos, you got time enough. You got

[10:12] three rounds to three minutes, you know,

[10:14] in kickboxing.

[10:15] >> Take your time. Don't need

[10:16] [clears throat] to attack. Feel him out.

[10:18] Let him. Like my students, if I see

[10:20] they're nervous, I will tell them. I

[10:22] say, "Okay, I don't want you to fight

[10:23] for a a minute, one minute. I will shout

[10:26] when the minute has passed. I want you

[10:27] just to avoid him constantly just by

[10:29] movement." And then we work on that, of

[10:31] course, before the fight, you know,

[10:33] because if you have great movement,

[10:34] always moving to the sides and there's

[10:35] no patterns and all that stuff, it's

[10:37] very hard for somebody to hit you

[10:39] because you have a big space, you know.

[10:41] So he's constantly moving. I said, and

[10:43] once you get him that now, you start

[10:45] seeing his movements and then you just

[10:47] start aiming and aiming and they go like

[10:49] aiming is normal. That's not if you see

[10:51] 80% of the fighters, they just hit the

[10:53] head,

[10:54] >> they just hit the body. Not me. I'm

[10:56] really focusing on the jaw, on the solar

[10:58] plexus, on, you know, but that that

[11:00] aiming and that focus puts you right

[11:03] away better into the game as well.

[11:04] You're more focused. And with my

[11:06] students, every single time it works. It

[11:09] simply works. But if you just let them

[11:11] go, they want to do the same thing that

[11:13] I did when I was young, you know, and

[11:15] just get it over with. And that's when

[11:16] you make mistakes. You're rolling the

[11:18] dice. Why would you roll the dice? If

[11:19] you got a 30-minute fight coming up,

[11:21] dude, my friends, it's so funny. They

[11:23] always when you look at my record, they

[11:24] say, "Dude, you had a lot of first round

[11:25] finishes." I go, "Oh, yeah, 30 minute

[11:27] fights, you know, it's not like in the

[11:30] three-minute round." So, of course, it's

[11:32] in the first round because it's a long

[11:33] ass round. So, yes, that's what I'm I'm

[11:36] talking to them. And now I'm I'm also I

[11:38] go very deep like if a guy can't perform

[11:41] in front of an audience I know right

[11:42] away you know. So when his family

[11:44] members are there at this and I tell

[11:45] them I said do not start telling

[11:47] everybody that you're going to fight. Do

[11:49] not start saying on video before the

[11:51] fight I'm going to rip him off. This

[11:53] guy's a nobody because now you're

[11:54] fighting a nobody. That's first of all

[11:56] stupid. But second of all now you better

[11:58] live up to it. And that video that you

[12:00] just said that you were going to do to

[12:01] him. They're going to play that at the

[12:03] moment you walk up to the ring.

[12:04] >> And that's going to put a lot of

[12:05] pressure.

[12:06] In fact, you know what we're going to

[12:08] do? You're not allowed, if they're very

[12:10] nervous, you are not allowed to talk

[12:11] about fighting at all. Zero to other

[12:15] people. Not saying that you're going to

[12:16] fight and we're going to fight out of

[12:17] state. We'll find a fight somewhere out

[12:20] of state. You don't tell anybody. If you

[12:22] win, you come home. You say, "Hey, I

[12:23] just want to fight. If you lost, you

[12:24] don't even have to tell anybody." That

[12:27] takes a lot of pressure out. And then

[12:29] again, another one I have, and this is

[12:31] also very interesting. I we we all want

[12:34] to perform for other people. That's our

[12:36] problem. If you just fight for yourself,

[12:39] >> you're going to be just fine. If you

[12:41] don't care about all the noise, what

[12:42] people say, because they all know it

[12:43] better than you, yet they never fought a

[12:45] day in their life. They never trained,

[12:47] you know. So, what I'm telling them, if

[12:48] they're nervous before, like a week

[12:50] before, I see them agitated. I go, "What

[12:52] about this? What if your opponent walks

[12:54] into the gym right now and and you guys

[12:56] going to fight? We put you in the room,

[12:58] that room, it has no windows. We're

[13:00] closing the door. You lock the door in

[13:02] the inside. You fight. And when you lose

[13:04] or win, doesn't matter. But you're not

[13:06] allowed to say if you won or lose. Would

[13:08] you care if you would lose? And they all

[13:10] say, "No, I wouldn't care." I go, "That

[13:12] means that you're fighting for the

[13:14] people." Don't fight for the people.

[13:16] Fight for yourself. If you literally can

[13:18] let everything go and put all that

[13:22] uh I want to be cool, want to be cool,

[13:24] you know, and my family members are

[13:25] there. If you can set that, really push

[13:27] it to the side, that's it. Then you

[13:29] fight like you fight in the gym. And if

[13:31] you fight in the gym, well, you're a

[13:32] good fighter. You're probably going to

[13:34] win this fight. And if you lose, well,

[13:36] that's a life lesson.

[13:37] >> That means, oh, you're gonna have to

[13:38] work harder on that. Like happened with

[13:40] me in my submissions, right? I lost by

[13:42] submission. Then I lost one time, more

[13:43] time by submission and last time by

[13:45] submission. And that's when the whole

[13:47] change came and that's when I said,

[13:49] "Okay, I got to know this game." So I

[13:52] found one guy because I had nobody to

[13:53] train with in Holland. There was no you

[13:55] was there was judo and you know once

[13:58] every two weeks I was in in in Amsterdam

[14:00] but sometimes I came in and other people

[14:02] didn't want to train. It was a nightmare

[14:04] but then I found that one guy and then

[14:06] suddenly I got the obsession. That's

[14:08] when I realized what submissions really

[14:10] was there. It it's endless and the

[14:13] combinations and the setups and and you

[14:16] never master it. There's no way because

[14:18] there's too much it's it's too cool. And

[14:21] once that grabbed me, I fell in love

[14:23] with it. And once I fell in love with

[14:25] it,

[14:25] >> well, I started doing it a lot, like

[14:27] three times a day. I forgot about my

[14:29] striking. I said I did only hats for for

[14:32] stamina. I wouldn't even spar anymore

[14:34] because they were not going to stand

[14:35] with me because I was not going to be

[14:36] blow out.

[14:37] >> They wanted to take me to the ground.

[14:38] And that was it. Never lost the fight

[14:40] after that. I I lost my last fight by

[14:42] submission. I won my last eight. The

[14:44] next eight fights, I won them by

[14:46] submission. Eight by seven finishes and

[14:48] one submission control. And people are

[14:50] going like, "What is going on?" I Well,

[14:52] I just worked on my weaknesses very very

[14:55] hard. And thankfully, I fell in love

[14:56] with it. So, I wanted to do it. And I

[14:58] think that's that's it with everything.

[14:59] If you love something, then you're going

[15:01] to succeed because it's the only thing

[15:04] you wanted to do. I love training. I

[15:06] loved everything about fighting at that

[15:07] time. And that just helped me a lot, I

[15:10] guess.

[15:10] >> A a quick question. Um you so when you

[15:13] told the story about when you were in

[15:14] Japan and you wrote a on your fists uh

[15:18] you said that after that you didn't gas

[15:21] again you didn't gas out there's this

[15:23] debate the goes on between you know

[15:27] fitness is about efficiency and

[15:29] relaxation versus fitness is about you

[15:31] know having a high V2 max or just being

[15:33] physically very fit. Where do you how do

[15:36] you understand the the difference? Like

[15:38] how much does efficiency and relaxation

[15:40] help with gassing or not gassing in

[15:42] fights versus do you just need to be

[15:44] ultra fit? Because I know you focus a

[15:46] lot on fitness as well. [clears throat]

[15:48] >> Every muscle you contract the whole

[15:49] time, you're burning energy like like a

[15:51] maniac, right? During the fight, if you

[15:53] breathe wrong, you're burning wrong

[15:54] energy. If you lift your shoulders every

[15:56] time when you breathe, you're carrying

[15:57] your body every time up. You have to

[15:58] breathe right formatically. All these

[16:00] things. So, uh, how do I'm going to say

[16:02] this? Um the the relaxed person will

[16:07] will beat an aggressive person nine out

[16:09] of 10 times. Always. He might get caught

[16:11] one time, but for the rest he always um

[16:14] uh is in control. Like the first time

[16:17] you rolled, how tired did you get in a

[16:19] minute, like a minute, right? You you're

[16:22] out of breath. You go like, "What the

[16:23] heck is this?" Because you don't know

[16:24] where you at the moment, where are the

[16:27] moments that you can take a break

[16:28] because they're constantly attacking

[16:30] you, you know? But once you start

[16:31] getting into it and you start feeling

[16:33] that if somebody's aggressive, I can

[16:35] simply move to the side. Boop. Takes

[16:37] place. Sometimes I just walk away. And

[16:38] then you see me shaking. I do just do

[16:40] this. I hop and I feel all my muscles go

[16:43] bloop. That's my my way of telling me,

[16:46] okay, I'm relaxed. And then I go back

[16:47] into the fight. You know, take that time

[16:50] and it's not looking scary when you walk

[16:52] away. That looks actually like you're

[16:53] completely in control. Okay, not right

[16:55] now. You know, he's you shaky off. Okay,

[16:57] let's go again. Now they're going to go,

[16:59] "What? What just happened? I just

[17:00] attacked them full. So once you can

[17:02] control those moments and you know that

[17:04] you can simply avoid them by moving out

[17:06] outside

[17:07] >> and taking an extra breath that all

[17:10] happens once you are completely relaxed

[17:12] in your mind and that's when your

[17:14] stamina really comes because normally I

[17:16] always tell my students say stamina

[17:17] stamina stamina for your first fight

[17:18] it's only endurance and stamina you know

[17:21] because

[17:22] >> if you have that [clears throat] you're

[17:23] going to win all your first fights

[17:24] because nobody realizes once the

[17:26] pressure hits and uh and and and all

[17:29] these endorphins and everything starts

[17:31] working that's going to tight you up.

[17:32] That that stamina that you have, that

[17:34] endurance is going to be cut in half.

[17:36] They come back the first round, they go.

[17:37] [laughter]

[17:38] I said, "Oh, [clears throat]

[17:39] I thought you told me you were in shape,

[17:41] you know." Yeah, but this is so crazy. I

[17:43] said, "That's what I told you. Get in

[17:44] freaking shape. It's the only way to

[17:46] win, you know." And if you do do that,

[17:48] being in shape combining with knowing at

[17:51] the moment when you can take a break or

[17:53] take a beat and take an extra breath,

[17:55] well, that's it. Then, yeah, you almost

[17:58] never run out of gas anymore.

[18:00] Yeah, love that. Yeah, I'm I'm starting

[18:03] to get similar kind of epiphies even

[18:04] though I'm like many years deep in in

[18:06] jiu-jitsu how important the those two

[18:09] things are. Um I want to go back in time

[18:12] a little bit. Uh when I was researching

[18:14] your childhood, uh it sounded like a

[18:18] completely different person, you know,

[18:19] like the person that you became champion

[18:23] uh just like devastating fighter, super

[18:25] charismatic, like everyone loves

[18:28] listening to you and you you you help a

[18:30] lot of people, but when you were a

[18:31] child, you were very ill, bullied, all

[18:34] right, and isolated from from my

[18:36] research. And is it true that you would

[18:40] sort of uh like run away from people

[18:42] that were being mean to you and climb

[18:44] trees

[18:45] >> and things like that?

[18:46] >> Yeah. Horrible skit. So I was the leper

[18:48] in school,

[18:49] >> you know. Everybody called me the leper.

[18:50] So and they were always picking on me.

[18:52] Oh, don't come too close. You know, he's

[18:53] going to give it to you. It's it's

[18:55] contagious. And so everybody was messing

[18:58] with me. And the way for me to deal with

[18:59] it was Spider-Man that he was my guy and

[19:02] Wolverine, but Spider-Man because he

[19:04] also got bullied, right? And I just

[19:06] started going into the trees. We had a

[19:08] forest in front of our home.

[19:10] >> And uh and I realized that I could once

[19:12] I climbed the tree, I could start

[19:14] swinging the tree and I go to the next

[19:16] tree.

[19:17] >> And then through the whole forest, I

[19:19] would have maybe seven times that I had

[19:21] to climb down because it would be too

[19:23] far the next tree. But for the there was

[19:25] a big forest.

[19:26] >> So I could like if bullies came now, I

[19:29] just climbed the tree. And then I let

[19:31] them climb the tree and when they were

[19:32] halfway down, I started swinging. Whoop!

[19:34] and go to the next tree. And then one

[19:36] time a big a big bully, he he tried it

[19:39] also and he he fell and he almost died

[19:42] because his head fell next to a big

[19:44] rock. I remember that he was out and I

[19:46] remember his parents were freaking out

[19:48] and because the kids ran home to get

[19:49] their parents but I thought and I from

[19:52] but from that moment on, of course,

[19:53] nobody ever followed me in the trees

[19:55] anymore because I just climbed tree. But

[19:57] I had this always this obsession with

[19:59] buildings and every high building, every

[20:01] church, every I always climbed it. I

[20:04] wanted to somehow I always think I'm

[20:06] afraid of heights and because that's why

[20:08] I want to overcome it. It was really

[20:10] weird, but it attracted me a lot to to

[20:14] that danger and do stupid stuff. If I

[20:16] think back now, you know, like with you,

[20:19] you know, I I'm here in my man cave and

[20:20] they just came to bring my belts and my

[20:22] trophies and everything that I have and

[20:23] and every time I walk in, I go, man, I

[20:26] I'm thinking exactly what you just said.

[20:27] It's so weird how life can go.

[20:29] Yesterday, I talked to a guy going from

[20:32] that kid that was so scared to suddenly

[20:34] everybody knows you and you got freaking

[20:36] paintings that they make of you and the

[20:38] belts are hanging here. You go like,

[20:40] how's this even happening? You know,

[20:42] it's it's all

[20:43] >> it's it's weird, but it's it's all mind.

[20:46] And I'm telling you, I think I got that

[20:48] from my childhood as an as as an

[20:51] asthmatic patient. I I had severe asp.

[21:00] But you got to go to the restroom. Well,

[21:02] it's one floor down.

[21:04] >> Good luck. You know, going down the

[21:05] stairs, that's already hard. You take

[21:07] three steps, sit down, resting, three

[21:10] steps, take down. Now you got to go back

[21:11] up. That's much harder. You see? So for

[21:14] me that was a that I but I had to do it.

[21:16] You had to have the discipline in order

[21:18] to do it, you know. And I think all

[21:20] these things actually helped me. All

[21:22] that bullying actually helped me. We had

[21:24] an a reunion and it was a show in

[21:27] Holland called the reuni. And that's the

[21:29] the reunion and it was very high watch

[21:32] show. There 3.3 3.2 million people

[21:35] watched that show and people got 3.2

[21:37] million. Yeah. We got at the time 15

[21:39] million people in all that's only five.

[21:41] So it was a and the bullies didn't show

[21:43] up because the all the class everybody

[21:45] was invited but the bullies didn't come

[21:48] and they go well I guess they're afraid.

[21:50] I go I wanted to thank them. I really

[21:53] wanted to say thank you. You gave me an

[21:55] unbelievable life. Look at me man. I'm

[21:57] I'm enjoying my life so much but this

[22:00] because of them. So what I thought was a

[22:02] curse I always saw that as a blessing.

[22:06] Now I see that as a blessing and I never

[22:08] was down. My eczema was on my hands and

[22:10] it was in my neck and and on my knees

[22:13] but I knew there were people out there

[22:14] who had that completely is the entire

[22:17] body. Well, compared to that

[22:18] >> it's not so bad. My asthma attack just a

[22:21] week. This guy's 365. They have to move

[22:23] to Switzerland or some high altitude

[22:26] place where the air is very clean

[22:28] because otherwise they can't live. Well,

[22:30] mine is not as bad as they have. You

[22:32] see, I always thought like that. I never

[22:33] thought, "Oh my god, I'm so sad though."

[22:35] I always thought about the people who

[22:36] had it worse than me and that always

[22:38] kept me up and I was always the class

[22:40] clown because nobody liked me. So I

[22:42] stopped making fun of the teachers so

[22:44] people started laughing you know that's

[22:45] how I got into it. That's where my humor

[22:48] comes from, you know. So everything

[22:49] happened for a reason, you know. Omnia

[22:51] calls a fute, right? It's what they say

[22:53] in Latin. Everything happens for a

[22:55] reason. And that's why I'm truly believe

[22:57] you because we were talking about

[22:58] stoicism, eatholicism, we these very

[23:00] things the same lines that that's it.

[23:04] Everything happens for a reason. I was

[23:06] given those diseases for a reason to see

[23:08] what I was going to do with it. Well,

[23:10] you can do something bad with it. You

[23:11] can be crying and you can be sit down or

[23:13] you say, "Hey, let's try to overcome

[23:15] this thing and see what I can do." And

[23:17] thankfully, I took the second one.

[23:21] >> It's a it's a great story for parents as

[23:24] well because as a I have kids, we we

[23:26] would tend to think that, you know, if

[23:27] our children are being bullied or they

[23:30] have illnesses or they're isolated, like

[23:33] everything's ruined. But your your story

[23:36] says like no like maybe this is the

[23:38] thing that can actually help them grow

[23:40] and they can maybe you know become you'd

[23:43] never think that like oh my child that's

[23:44] getting bullied and ill will be UFC

[23:47] champion like it just doesn't make sense

[23:49] but

[23:50] >> yeah my mother does and I'm I'm

[23:53] >> and now my mom was so proud like because

[23:55] I always thought my parents were kind of

[23:57] against it but they passed away and we

[23:59] went to the house I found a box with all

[24:01] the newspaper clippings everything from

[24:04] you know and and and my my family were

[24:06] telling me that man she was so proud of

[24:08] you everywhere she would come people

[24:10] because if she would say root and say oh

[24:11] do you know bos yeah yes my son that's

[24:13] your son and then everybody you know so

[24:15] and my dad also but in the beginning you

[24:18] know fighting you're not going to make

[24:19] money and fighting you know so for me to

[24:22] make that choice and of course I was a

[24:24] very hard kid I was ADD I was ADHD all

[24:28] over the place I needed to get attention

[24:30] burglaries I did a lot of burglaries as

[24:32] as a 15 16 year year old like I we got

[24:34] caught for 142 of them two times. One

[24:36] time 90 and the other you know but I

[24:39] mean

[24:40] >> I was doing things that they of course

[24:42] did not me want me to do. My brother was

[24:44] the perfect guy, you know, just one of

[24:46] the best lawyers in Europe right now.

[24:48] Has two lawyers offices, Amsterdam and

[24:50] Rotterdam. H everything he does is

[24:52] cumloud. Everything he does like he he

[24:55] did conservatorium in three different

[24:57] majors. Not one, three. All the top

[25:01] class every single time, everything he

[25:02] did and a freak athlete as well. He just

[25:05] chose a different path to go, you know.

[25:07] So he was of course the the guy that

[25:10] hope you could be proud of him. me I was

[25:12] only getting in trouble please at the

[25:14] door again this been in a fight again

[25:16] because there was a lot of hating me

[25:18] after I knocked the first bully out you

[25:20] know once I learned fighting oh now

[25:23] every kid that got bullied guess who

[25:24] took care of that problem you know I

[25:26] start going after everybody I had a

[25:28] short list like four guys

[25:30] >> that I still had and I remember one guy

[25:32] was like ly I'm so sorry boss I don't

[25:34] even remember what I said I but I do and

[25:36] then poof I will knock him out you know

[25:38] there was that anger in me and and

[25:40] thankfully I on fighting and then it

[25:43] became the controlled anger like Bruce

[25:44] Lee would say, right? Fighting is all

[25:46] about controlled anger. Let it go at the

[25:48] moment you need to go. Boop, relaxation

[25:50] again.

[25:51] >> And thank that clicked for me.

[25:55] >> Uh so this this topic, right? So there's

[25:58] this the story of you sneaking into

[26:00] Enter the Dragon when you're 12 and then

[26:03] you broke a bully's nose with one punch,

[26:06] right? And like

[26:08] >> a lot of people just think of that

[26:10] story, but the what you're describing

[26:12] here is that maybe you could talk more

[26:14] about you made a list, right? And you

[26:17] kind of I think a lot of people who have

[26:18] been abused or oppressed, they kind of

[26:21] go into that role themselves, you know,

[26:24] maybe not permanently, but just to kind

[26:26] of like as a as a reaction to it, right?

[26:27] Like if you've suffered a lot, you tend

[26:29] to make other people suffer. So, could

[26:32] you talk a little bit about that switch

[26:34] from being bullied to maybe being the

[26:36] bully short term?

[26:38] >> Yeah, I I I never understood those

[26:39] people because I I I didn't like it. So,

[26:42] why would I do that on somebody else?

[26:44] >> Like, I'm the guy I literally had to

[26:46] learn to say no to people.

[26:48] >> I was the guy who just I want to help

[26:50] everybody and especially if you're in

[26:51] trouble. Got it. Emails, hundreds of

[26:54] emails from parents that I answered. It

[26:57] was like after the fourth email I just

[26:58] made a big file so I could copy and

[27:00] paste because I got contacted oh my my

[27:02] boy has also eczema and as as much it's

[27:05] a combination that's comes a lot and

[27:08] he's also being bullied what do I do

[27:09] what do I and everything that I used to

[27:11] eat and and the my whole house there

[27:13] were no curtains in our home there were

[27:15] like plastic curtains and the floors

[27:17] there was no carpets everything needed

[27:19] to be if I spent 20 minutes with a dog I

[27:23] would be the next day a week in bed

[27:25] complete asthma my attack severe, you

[27:28] know, any animal with fur,

[27:30] >> you see. So, I never understood kids how

[27:33] they did that. I just wanted to help

[27:35] other kids who got bullied and take care

[27:37] of their problems for them, you know.

[27:38] And then, of course, I wanted them teach

[27:41] them how to fight so they could do it

[27:42] themselves as well, you know. So, yeah,

[27:45] thankfully my my parents are very

[27:48] very my childhood has been insane. Like

[27:50] my parents, I've never seen them ever

[27:53] fight, you know, there's pushing like my

[27:56] other friends are fighting that never

[27:58] like not even words the the raised their

[28:01] voice. Okay, now I want you to stop.

[28:03] That what maybe my dad would say that

[28:05] was it,

[28:06] >> you know, but never any problems in the

[28:09] house. So I think that always kept me

[28:11] also very calm knowing that it's there's

[28:14] no need for it. But if there is need for

[28:16] it and and and talking about bullies,

[28:19] there was one moment um in the in the

[28:23] play on the playground in my in my

[28:25] school and my house was literally 200

[28:26] yards away from the school, maybe 300

[28:28] yards, very close. And we had trees in

[28:31] the playground and I think I saw a Darth

[28:33] movie or thinking I was maybe

[28:35] Spider-Man. I don't know what it And

[28:36] these bullies kept on going and I get

[28:38] angry and I see a branch and I'm

[28:40] thinking, "Okay, I'm going to grab that

[28:41] branch, swing to him and double front

[28:44] kick on the chest." So I jumped the

[28:46] branch. I sw the branch broke and I'm

[28:49] falling on the ground.

[28:50] >> I'm laying on the ground and everybody's

[28:52] pointing at me and laughing. And I ran

[28:55] home. Yeah, run home leer. Run home.

[28:57] It's the last thing I heard. And I go to

[28:59] the kitchen, grab the biggest kitchen

[29:01] knife, and I run back. And that's

[29:04] thankfully because till this day I have

[29:06] no idea what I would have done but I was

[29:08] I was lost. I lost it and my mother saw

[29:12] me running on the street from the with

[29:14] the knife. So she started to chase me

[29:16] and she was able to catch catch me

[29:19] before I got back onto the playard. So

[29:21] when you hear that from the other kids,

[29:23] you know shootings or whatever they do

[29:25] or the so horrible things. Yes, of

[29:28] course I can know it's not good. It's

[29:29] the worst thing. But I can understand

[29:30] it. I can completely understand it

[29:33] because it's the years and years and

[29:35] everybody's doing and now especially

[29:37] with social media. You get a victim and

[29:39] everybody starts attacking you. You you

[29:41] you put somebody Yeah. You you separate

[29:45] them from everybody and now that person

[29:47] is lost and everybody wants a voice,

[29:49] right? Everybody wants to be heard and

[29:51] that starts building, you know, and then

[29:53] sometimes horrible things are going to

[29:55] happen.

[29:56] >> Yeah. Yeah. As I've got older, I've

[29:58] realized the line between victim and

[30:00] perpetrator is not as clear-cut as as

[30:02] people want you to believe. You know,

[30:04] cuz if you had done anything with that

[30:05] knife, people would have thought, you

[30:06] know, this is the bad guy.

[30:08] >> But it's not so simple, right? Like, you

[30:11] know, you psychological suffering is is

[30:14] a very serious thing. You just can't see

[30:16] it on someone. It's not like a wound on

[30:18] the outside.

[30:19] >> But and it's also like when I was a

[30:20] bouncer, they grabbed me because I was a

[30:22] good fighter. But not only that, the

[30:24] main reason was I would settle it.

[30:27] >> If there's 10 situations, normally they

[30:28] would fight 10 times. With me, you fight

[30:30] maybe one time

[30:31] >> because I take him to the side and I

[30:33] just explain, okay, let's go. What

[30:35] happened? Oh, he looked at my he looked

[30:37] at my wife. Did he say something to her?

[30:39] No. Did he touch her? No. I go,

[30:41] >> you should be happy. That means your

[30:43] wife is hot and that's why he looked at

[30:45] her. If he now, if he overstepped, I can

[30:47] understand you. And then they're

[30:48] standing there. They go like, yeah,

[30:50] there he's right. They go, right? Okay.

[30:52] What do you drink? What do you drink?

[30:53] Okay, I order a beer, whatever they

[30:55] ordered and I say, "Hey, let's be

[30:56] friends now." You see, that was my

[30:58] thing. I always diffuse the situ in my

[31:01] street fights. They go, "Oh my god, the

[31:02] crazy guy in the street fights that I

[31:04] had, you know, but you don't know this."

[31:06] I'm constantly diffusing. I'm constantly

[31:08] telling them I don't want to. And every

[31:10] time they keep going a little bit angry,

[31:12] you get more and you try to stop it. And

[31:15] then they think you're afraid.

[31:17] >> And that's when I realize they go,

[31:18] "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You you think

[31:20] I'm afraid?" I go, "Yeah, I'm afraid for

[31:22] what I'm going to do to you." And then

[31:24] most of the time they that's why they

[31:25] hook off. But then there's always these

[31:27] people who think you're faking it. And

[31:30] then when I beat those people up, well,

[31:31] that's after seven times saying no, no,

[31:34] no, no. Anger, anger, anger, anger,

[31:36] anger, poof. And then I go all the way.

[31:38] And now I'm certainly I'm the aggressor.

[31:40] And I go, [laughter] if they would have

[31:42] seen the whole story, they would have

[31:43] said, "Dude, he tried to diffuse the

[31:45] situation like six, seven times." You

[31:48] see? But so I never had that violence

[31:50] towards other people. Even if they got

[31:51] me in the face, is the guy's really

[31:52] drunk, slap me in the face, I don't even

[31:54] going to knock them out. If it's a

[31:56] punch, like a hard punch, then yeah,

[31:58] you're going to get knocked out as well.

[32:00] But otherwise, I go, the guy's drunk,

[32:02] you know? I mean, we all make mistakes

[32:04] when we're drunk or on the drugs or

[32:05] whatever it is. Why would I want to hit

[32:07] him? Why would I let him wake up next

[32:09] day with his face bashed and probably

[32:11] doesn't even know what he did, you know,

[32:13] because he was drunk. So let it go.

[32:16] Thankfully, I always had that that I

[32:18] never immediately start going in there.

[32:21] >> I I I think um one of the things I've

[32:24] been contemplating as a man, like we're

[32:26] not really taught like obviously there's

[32:29] like things you can do to learn how to

[32:30] fight better, but we're not really

[32:31] taught the like in between stages very

[32:34] well. Like what do you do if someone

[32:35] insults you? What do you do if someone

[32:38] kind of gets in your face? Right?

[32:40] There's like there's a lot of levels to

[32:41] this and it's, you know, and just

[32:43] punching someone and knocking them out

[32:44] isn't always the answer.

[32:46] >> Um, do you like do you have like a model

[32:49] for this? Say you're walking down the

[32:50] street and someone just shouts something

[32:52] rude at you. Are you is your first thing

[32:54] to ignore or do you like use your voice?

[32:57] What's the model that you use?

[32:59] >> Okay. So, if I see him doing that to

[33:00] everybody, you know, then probably I

[33:03] think it's a crazy guy. If I know it's

[33:04] an aggressive guy and I see him already

[33:06] pushing people, I will I will simply

[33:08] laugh.

[33:09] Because if you laugh at a person who's

[33:11] aggressive, they get more aggressive.

[33:14] And the reason I used to do that,

[33:15] because I don't do that anymore, because

[33:17] it's kind of an [ __ ] thing for me to

[33:19] do if I think about it. Because if you

[33:21] laugh, if somebody flips you off and I

[33:23] go,

[33:25] they get so angry because now their

[33:28] anger, it doesn't have the effect that

[33:30] they thought it was going to have. So

[33:32] now I start laughing. That means most of

[33:35] the time they take a swing. But if I saw

[33:37] already that he was a really bad guy

[33:39] before, then I do that on purpose, of

[33:41] course. I I just laugh at them. I'm not

[33:43] saying anything back. So nobody gets,

[33:45] "Oh, he just laughed, you know, but I

[33:47] know that's going to trigger them and

[33:48] attack me." And now I have a reason to

[33:51] knock him out. Thankfully, I figured out

[33:53] that's also not good to do. So

[33:54] [laughter] after a while, so I just

[33:56] simply stopped doing it.

[33:58] >> Yeah. Last time in the car, we had

[34:00] something that was It was really sad. My

[34:02] wife even said it. this guy gets I don't

[34:05] know what's going on. I I and I always

[34:07] drive cruise control so it's not I I I

[34:10] take the same distance. I have my car.

[34:11] They all do it automatically now. You

[34:13] don't have to do anything. And this

[34:14] guy's coming to the left and right. And

[34:16] then suddenly he stops next to me. His

[34:17] windows are painted

[34:19] >> and and and he doesn't open his window.

[34:21] So I'm looking to wait till open the

[34:23] window. Now what

[34:26] what he was do at the moment he opens

[34:28] his window, he was sitting in the car

[34:29] like this, like sideways in the car. He

[34:32] was this big guy with a beard and he was

[34:34] looking at me like like you want a piece

[34:36] of that. Now what I what happened to me

[34:39] is like why doesn't he open the window?

[34:41] Why is he not opening the door? And then

[34:42] when the window opened I I saw in a

[34:45] second why he didn't do that. He had to

[34:48] position himself in such a way to look

[34:50] the coolest, you know. So then I look at

[34:53] him and he sits there and I go

[34:55] [laughter]

[34:56] and and he freaking speeds off and my

[35:00] wife go, "Oh, that was kind of sad." I

[35:02] go, "Yeah, right. That was kind of sad."

[35:04] >> But you see, again, I laughed at him

[35:06] because I thought,

[35:07] >> man, who does that? Sits sideways in the

[35:10] car, you know, position himself and then

[35:12] opens the window. So I saw I thought it

[35:15] was funny. I didn't laugh to get him

[35:16] angry.

[35:17] >> Yeah. Yeah, but I just saw that the

[35:19] preparation he did before he lowered the

[35:22] window and yeah, he was off right away.

[35:24] Maybe he recognized me, I don't know,

[35:26] but it was um Yeah, it was a funny

[35:29] moment, but then afterwards you think it

[35:30] was kind of sad for the guy.

[35:33] >> Yeah. Yeah, it's uh you know the Stoics

[35:37] um we'll be getting into some like stoic

[35:40] and um Catholic ideas later, but I know

[35:43] you're interested in the the overlap

[35:45] there. But the Stoics uh believe that

[35:48] anger is a separate kind of bad emotion

[35:51] because like the minute you start losing

[35:53] it, you can't get back in control. Like

[35:55] if you get heavily triggered, you're

[35:57] you're you're gone. It's going to

[35:58] snowball. Um, I think people virtue

[36:02] again stowage uses your virtues as well.

[36:05] >> Yeah.

[36:06] >> Yeah.

[36:08] Um, we've talked about this a little bit

[36:10] when we first started talking, but um,

[36:12] one of the things I I believe that you

[36:15] think a lot about is when you have two

[36:17] athletes, they both train really well in

[36:20] the dojo, but then when it comes time to

[36:23] competing or fighting in a cage, one of

[36:25] them might fall apart and the other one

[36:27] doesn't. So, what would you say is the

[36:31] difference between these two people?

[36:32] Like, if you took two clones, what would

[36:34] break someone between the gym versus

[36:37] walking out into a into the cage?

[36:40] >> I think uh what I believe personally is

[36:43] like a lot of fighters, they don't

[36:44] really want to fight, but they think

[36:46] it's cool. Uh because then they can say,

[36:48] "I'm a cage fighter." I go, "You're not

[36:50] a cage fight. You're a mixed martial

[36:51] artist." Don't say that word, cage. It's

[36:52] just a stupid thing to say. Say you're a

[36:54] mixed martial artist. I heard a pro say

[36:56] that one time. This lady asked, "What do

[36:58] you do? I'm a cage fighter." I go, "Oh

[36:59] my god, he just lost some points with

[37:01] me." I go, "Why would you say that?" You

[37:02] know, just say mixed martial arts, you

[37:04] know. Oh, I'm in the UFC. I'm doing No,

[37:06] no, no, no. Stay away from it. So, so

[37:09] guys like that most of the time they're

[37:11] not going to make it. They're too

[37:12] nervous. They put too much pressure on

[37:14] themselves. They probably are the guys

[37:16] who come in and they go, "Yeah, every

[37:17] every friend of mine tells me because

[37:18] I'm good street fighter that I can uh,

[37:20] you know, I can become a good fighter."

[37:22] Most of the time those guys come in,

[37:23] they do one sparring session with an uh

[37:25] with a 17 year old, but I know that's a

[37:28] good 17 year old and then they realize,

[37:30] oh, they're not that good. The ones who

[37:32] come back

[37:33] >> after that training, which is 10% maybe

[37:37] they they have a chance.

[37:39] >> Yeah.

[37:39] >> Because they Okay, I want to know that.

[37:41] That was with me once they I got I got

[37:43] slaughtered with my submissions. The

[37:45] first time I was training in Amsterdam,

[37:46] I had to stop my car on the way back

[37:49] because I was so crushed like

[37:51] physically, not mentally. Wow.

[37:53] >> And I came home, I told my wife, I said

[37:55] it was just when the cell phones came

[37:56] out. I said, "Hey, I'm sleeping in the

[37:58] car for a couple hours and I come back

[38:00] home because it was from Amsterdam 2 and

[38:02] a half hour drive from me where I used

[38:03] to live." And then I came home, she she

[38:05] started laughing. She says, "Oh, that's

[38:06] it." I said, "Oh, no. Within 6 months,

[38:08] I'm going to tap everybody. Watch." And

[38:11] I did. Within 6 months, I start tapping

[38:13] everybody. you know, and I nobody could

[38:15] touch me anymore, you see. So, it's just

[38:17] uh it's it's the mindset that you have.

[38:20] Now, if you have the mindset of running

[38:21] away from it, you're never going to make

[38:22] it. That's first of all, and a guy like

[38:24] that might still have it a little bit

[38:26] because he wants to perform for his

[38:28] friends and his family members. And

[38:30] that's again what we talked about in the

[38:32] beginning. You put too much pressure on

[38:33] yourself. Your skill is not going to

[38:35] come out if you're emotional. That's

[38:36] why, okay, you see, constancy, right?

[38:39] That's another virtue that you have

[38:41] being steadfast, motionless, no matter

[38:43] what circumstance. You're complete under

[38:45] control. You know, that's that's what

[38:47] they need. But people automatically

[38:50] assume fighting with anger and it's

[38:52] absolutely not the the I always bet on

[38:55] the relaxed guy always because he just

[38:58] triggers everything trigger. If you're

[39:00] standing constantly like this, you're

[39:01] you're constantly affected your energy.

[39:03] But if you're relaxed, you poof and

[39:05] there's a shot. You know, calm

[39:07] controlled aggression. Here we go again.

[39:09] So, and then you have the

[39:10] parasympathetic and the sympathetic

[39:12] nervous system, right? And most of us

[39:14] were very sympathetic. So, high energy

[39:17] and and you need to how to control that.

[39:20] And once you can control that, you know,

[39:22] do it in bursts. Yeah. That's that's

[39:25] when you're going to go up. That's when

[39:28] you start being like you are in the gym.

[39:29] And that's it. That's the trick. That's

[39:30] the whole trick of fighting. It's like

[39:32] uh speaking. I do a lot of speaking

[39:34] right now and if memorizing 45 minute

[39:37] talks you know you think that first two

[39:40] three times was not easy it's not just

[39:43] standing there you're nervous as heck

[39:45] right I crack a joke I always start with

[39:47] something a joke people start laughing

[39:48] breaking the ice a little bit but you

[39:50] know you do this 10 15 times it's normal

[39:53] again it's like fighting

[39:55] >> yeah once you get used to all the

[39:56] commotion around it you know it becomes

[39:58] normal you know and then you say okay I

[40:01] feel it so yeah that that's the

[40:03] difference. I think if you fight for

[40:04] others and you really don't want to

[40:06] fight, you're fighting because it's a

[40:08] cool profession, I think you're not

[40:10] going to go far. There's a few

[40:12] exceptions always, of course, to every

[40:14] rule, but uh but the guy who just loves

[40:17] fighting is a very hard guy to beat.

[40:20] Totally. Yeah. I I I I think I you can

[40:22] see that a little bit where people like

[40:24] only do fighting so they can post on

[40:26] their social media that they fight so

[40:29] they can get a bit of like validation

[40:31] from certain people rather than a true

[40:33] love of the sport.

[40:35] Um so a lot of my audience are

[40:39] practitioners in stoicism and they love

[40:40] philosophy and there's different

[40:42] practices like premeditation of

[40:43] adversity, examining an impression

[40:46] before you ascent to it. Uh I saw that

[40:50] you had a ritual in the locker room

[40:53] before a fight where you would ask what

[40:55] is the worst thing that can happen to me

[40:57] and one of the answers you would land on

[40:59] was there's a referee right so like you

[41:02] were able to take the catastrophizing

[41:05] and bring it back to reality that's very

[41:07] similar to what Epictitus and the Stoics

[41:09] taught.

[41:10] >> Would you be able to walk me through how

[41:12] you figured this process out?

[41:13] >> Yeah, I always do that. What's the worst

[41:15] thing that can happen? I get knocked

[41:16] out. Is it really bad? There's a

[41:19] referee. He's not going to hit me 10

[41:20] extra times. Like for instance, when

[41:22] when uh Ken Shermog, he was fighting on

[41:25] the first show when I fought in Japan.

[41:26] It was two months before the UFC started

[41:28] September 93. And he was talking about

[41:31] the UFC. He was going to compete in the

[41:32] UFC. There's no referee. Can't do

[41:34] anything, you know, and and you can do

[41:36] anything you want. Man, you should do

[41:38] that. He said to me, I go, "Nah, I'm not

[41:40] going to do that." [clears throat] Why

[41:41] not? I said, "No referee." I said, "What

[41:42] if you get knocked out and the guy hits

[41:44] you six, seven more times in the face?

[41:46] that's you're asking for brain brain

[41:48] damage. That's not a smart thing to do.

[41:49] If there's a referee, sign me up. I

[41:52] would love to try that, you know. And

[41:54] thankfully that was happened after

[41:56] Tank Abbott uh because I heard this from

[41:59] Big Joe McCarthy, who was the UFC

[42:01] matchmaker, the the referee at the time.

[42:04] He said Tank Abbott was getting mauled

[42:06] by somebody, maybe Don Fry, I believe,

[42:09] and he was was really getting hurt, but

[42:12] he was not he was not allowed to step

[42:14] in. the corner had to throw in the towel

[42:16] and he looked at the corner like throw

[42:18] in the towel and they turned his back

[42:19] against him. And then he said later

[42:22] after the fight because Tank got hurt.

[42:26] He said, "Why did you guys didn't you

[42:28] guys throw in the towel?" Well, because

[42:29] Tank told us that if he would do that,

[42:32] he will beat the crap out of us. And

[42:34] that's when Joe McCarthy thankfully put

[42:36] his foot down and he said to the the

[42:38] owner, he said, "Listen, if I can't step

[42:40] in, I'm out. Somebody's going to die.

[42:42] This is not this is not a good thing."

[42:43] And they said, "Okay, you can step in."

[42:45] And that was the moment I said, "Okay,

[42:47] now I would love to do it." You see, but

[42:49] I'm not crazy. I'm enjoying my life. I

[42:51] don't These guys would say, "I'm going

[42:53] to die in the ring or in the cage." I

[42:54] go, "Not me, dude. If there's a problem,

[42:57] I'll tap, you know, I'm not going to

[42:59] freaking die in a I got a family. I join

[43:01] life." No.

[43:03] >> So, but they think, I guess it's cool to

[43:05] say, "Who wants that?" You know, and

[43:07] those guys probably never going to make

[43:08] it

[43:09] >> because they're they're doing it for the

[43:11] wrong reasons. They're not doing it

[43:13] because they love it. I think the love

[43:15] for something is everything.

[43:20] >> Yeah. I So, one of the things that you

[43:22] bring up there is when I see athletes,

[43:25] combat athletes, whether it's boxing or

[43:27] MMA, um I think that the higher you go,

[43:30] intelligence, like just raw IQ power,

[43:34] processing speed becomes more important.

[43:36] >> So, the champions are actually very

[43:38] clever people. And there's this tension

[43:40] that exists between like the the

[43:42] knowledge of risk versus reward, right?

[43:45] Because you you you're you're aware that

[43:46] you could get hurt,

[43:48] >> but because you you could get hurt,

[43:49] you're there because you're clever

[43:51] enough to be able to beat your opponent.

[43:53] And there's like a strange tension

[43:54] there.

[43:54] >> It is. It listen, there was a moment

[43:57] with me, this is very funny, there

[43:58] wasn't a world title fight against Kevin

[44:00] Randleman.

[44:02] Um this was literally like like it was a

[44:05] setup almost. So a day before the fight,

[44:08] somebody tells me about the nose bone

[44:10] into the brain, but they could jam it

[44:12] into the brain. And I said, "Dude,

[44:15] that's a myth. That's not true." And

[44:16] another person said, "Yeah, no, that's

[44:18] not true. But if your nose is already

[44:19] broken, then it maybe might happen."

[44:23] Whatever. That was the story. Now the

[44:25] next day, I'm fighting.

[44:26] >> Yeah.

[44:26] >> And Kevin is doing a freaking

[44:28] unbelievable job of me. He beats the

[44:30] crap out of me the first three minutes.

[44:32] I mean, my nose is flat on my face. I

[44:33] lost the contact. The other one is full

[44:35] with blood. I mean, I I don't look good

[44:37] after that fight. So, they the referee

[44:40] stops it to see if I can continue. And

[44:43] they the referee goes like, "Well, she

[44:46] knows broke. You want to continue?" And

[44:48] I look at Big Joe McCarthy and I go, "Do

[44:50] you believe that crap about the nose

[44:52] bone in the brain? This is literally

[44:53] during the fight." And he goes, "Nah." I

[44:55] go, "Okay, screw it. I'll fight." You

[44:57] know? So, but I was I was did check. If

[44:59] he would have said, "Yeah, that could

[45:01] happen." I think I would have stopped.

[45:02] Well, I'm pretty sure I would have stuck

[45:04] again because I don't want to die. I'm

[45:05] not going to risk my life for a sport,

[45:08] you see. But I did ask him

[45:10] >> at that moment, hey, do you believe it?

[45:13] Is that a true thing? And he says, nah.

[45:14] I go, okay, then uh let's do it. Let's

[45:16] keep going. And thankfully, I did. But

[45:18] then I won the title. So, it was a good

[45:20] thing.

[45:22] >> It's a great story. Yeah. Because you

[45:24] see some some fighters, they almost try

[45:26] to like brag about how they're willing

[45:27] to die in there, but yeah, it's just

[45:30] Yeah. Why? Why are we talking about

[45:31] [laughter] that? That doesn't make

[45:33] sense.

[45:34] >> Uh so Saka um the Stoic Sakica had this

[45:38] idea that anger is like a temporary

[45:40] madness and it's not useful even in

[45:42] something like war or combat.

[45:44] >> You've talked about uh when you get

[45:47] angry, you tend to load up or telegraph

[45:50] your strikes.

[45:51] >> What would you say is the difference

[45:52] between aggression and anger? Like do

[45:56] you see them as different things or the

[45:57] same?

[45:57] >> Well, a lot of people would see the

[45:58] same. I say um anger I think anger

[46:01] consumes you in your mind I think you it

[46:03] you hold that longer aggression is like

[46:06] a momentarily thing thing you know

[46:09] there's an aggression so but if you have

[46:11] anger like you see in the streets and

[46:12] the people with the signs and you know

[46:14] you see this America it's going crazy

[46:15] like the people getting more and more

[46:17] angry not realizing that they're feeling

[46:19] dopamine the whole time right because

[46:20] from anger you get dopamine and then in

[46:22] order like any other vice to get that

[46:24] same dopamine feeling you had yesterday

[46:27] where you going to have to be more angry

[46:28] now because otherwise you're not going

[46:29] to get that feeling. So it's getting out

[46:31] of control and I think um with

[46:35] aggression aggression is a moment that

[46:37] you need it like there like also in

[46:40] Catholicism they say that you should

[46:42] never be the moment maybe you're

[46:44] justified to be angry is only when your

[46:48] family or loved one or yourself gets

[46:50] attacked with fear of your life. That is

[46:53] a moment that you're allowed to be angry

[46:54] and can let go. for the rest there's

[46:57] nothing that you should because then you

[46:59] need it you need the anger in order to

[47:01] to get the job done because otherwise

[47:03] maybe your family something's going to

[47:04] happen to your family so uh yeah I think

[47:06] that is the difference [clears throat] I

[47:07] think that uh just the madness what he's

[47:10] talking about yes it stays in there they

[47:11] carry it home it doesn't go away they

[47:13] keep feeding it the whole time and I

[47:15] always talk about this the two voices I

[47:18] had right the good voice and the bad

[47:19] voice well which one grows the fastest

[47:22] the one you feed the most right so if

[47:24] you feed that bad voice the whole I'm at

[47:26] the anger, it'll keep growing. It keep

[47:28] growing. You got to stop. You got to

[47:29] step it back. And my way of think of

[47:32] saying is always to people like why

[47:34] don't you remove yourself from the

[47:36] situation? As soon as something really

[47:38] bad happens, mind you, you remove

[47:40] yourself. You put your best friend in

[47:42] that situation.

[47:43] >> He is in the best in the same exact

[47:46] situation. What would you tell him to do

[47:47] at this moment? I guarantee you're not

[47:50] going to say, you know, you got to go

[47:51] crazy because you can't think straight.

[47:53] You're going to say, "Dude, whatever

[47:54] happens, let's stay calm, you know,

[47:55] because otherwise you can't think."

[47:56] That's what you're going to say. And

[47:58] most of the time when that's how I do

[48:00] it, I step away from it. And I just see

[48:02] myself looking at the situation as if my

[48:05] loved one or a friend of mine has it.

[48:07] And what advice would I give him then

[48:10] and then the advice is completely

[48:12] different of what I was going to do,

[48:14] what I wanted to do. And then I realized

[48:16] I'm wrong. You know, everything is pride

[48:18] nowadays. Pride, pride, pride, pride,

[48:19] pride. You know, you can't save

[48:21] somebody. If you say hello to somebody

[48:22] who doesn't say hi back, boom. Oh, good

[48:26] day to you. I go, dude. You don't know

[48:28] what's going on with that guy. He might

[48:29] just had a phone call that his wife is

[48:31] in the hospital. Maybe somebody died.

[48:32] Agorophobia. I mean, there's so many

[48:34] things that you don't know. But you

[48:36] because they say don't say hi back to

[48:38] you. If you say hi, thank you. Or or you

[48:42] open the door for somebody, you do it

[48:43] for a thank you, you're doing it for the

[48:45] wrong reasons, you're doing it for you.

[48:47] You know, you do that because it's the

[48:49] right thing to do. That's why you want

[48:50] to open the door for somebody. I don't

[48:52] wait for thank yous. If I let somebody

[48:53] in traffic, I don't even look at them. I

[48:55] don't need to, oh, hello. No, that's not

[48:57] why I did it. I know what it feels like

[48:59] standing there. Nobody lets you in.

[49:01] That's why I let you in, you know. So,

[49:03] yeah, doing things for a thank you.

[49:05] You're the one who's wrong, not the

[49:07] other person. Trust me. Yeah, the it

[49:09] sounds like you've kind of uh

[49:11] organically

[49:12] uh generated your own stoic practices

[49:15] that are very much aligned with the

[49:17] ancient practices because Epictitus also

[49:19] says if something bad happens to you,

[49:20] imagine it happening to a friend and

[49:22] then what would you say to the friend?

[49:23] You might be like

[49:24] >> see I swear to God I did not know that

[49:26] >> literally. Yeah.

[49:27] >> Yeah.

[49:28] >> Yeah. Yeah. Because like if you if your

[49:30] car breaks down, it's the end of the

[49:31] world. But if your friend's car breaks

[49:33] down, you just go, "Oh, that's kind of

[49:34] sucks." You know, and it's just not it's

[49:36] not as much of a big deal. It's not

[49:38] great, but it's not as much of a big

[49:39] deal if it happens to you.

[49:41] >> Um but yeah, that makes sense because

[49:44] the ancient Stoics, they just lived

[49:45] life. They lived interesting, difficult

[49:48] lives, and that's how they developed a

[49:50] lot of their practices. Similar to you.

[49:52] Um can we talk a little bit about

[49:54] confidence? I think this ties in here. I

[49:56] think when uh people start learning how

[49:59] to fight, they want to test their skills

[50:02] if someone triggers them. It's like an

[50:03] opportunity to be like, can I actually

[50:06] handle this situation or not? But you

[50:08] said that it's easier, it became easier

[50:10] to walk away from those situations

[50:12] because you didn't need to test your

[50:13] skills anymore. You just kind of knew

[50:15] what what who you were. Is that the sign

[50:17] of of true strength is being able to not

[50:20] prove something? How do you how do you

[50:22] see that? Yeah, that's well the

[50:25] Spider-Man saying right with great power

[50:27] comes great responsibility, right? And I

[50:30] I I think that's that's everything, you

[50:32] know. I know you a regular person you

[50:35] not going to beat me. It's not going to

[50:36] happen. He can maybe knock me out,

[50:38] although I never been knocked out,

[50:40] >> you know. So, I' I've been I I busted my

[50:42] head against a toilet seat when I was

[50:44] drunk and I fell backwards and hit a

[50:46] toilet, a ceramic toilet. I should have

[50:49] been dead. Toilet exposed.

[50:51] >> Wow. Yeah,

[50:52] >> it's like 150 pieces. The whole floor

[50:54] started floating. That was a whole other

[50:56] story in the hotel. It was hilarious.

[50:57] But that's another story. But I mean,

[51:00] how is that even possible? Luck again,

[51:03] right? I somehow I hit a weak spot,

[51:06] >> you know? So, yeah, walk away from it.

[51:09] It doesn't uh it doesn't do anything.

[51:12] You and you know the feeling afterwards.

[51:14] Most of the time I feel bad. I had it in

[51:16] a fight. in the fight. I I I I felt

[51:18] horrible, but then again, I didn't know,

[51:21] you know. Um I I I saw a a preview of

[51:24] our show a day before the fight on the

[51:26] big screen in Japan on like a wall, like

[51:28] a like a like a building. And this is in

[51:31] 94. This is like gigantic. The whole

[51:34] wall is built uh screen and we hear

[51:37] hybrid wrestling pancros

[51:39] >> and you the first thing you see is me

[51:41] knocking down my first opponent. Oh,

[51:42] it's the preview. The preview for the

[51:44] show tomorrow. Oh, so we're all fighters

[51:46] are standing there and I got this guy

[51:48] behind me. He's the 10th degree Kushin,

[51:50] the highest one after the guy who

[51:52] founded it, Mazoyaba, uh, John Blooming,

[51:55] and I see this move, which I never did

[51:58] and I never knew. It's a it's a leg

[52:00] lock, an inverted heel hook. And I see

[52:02] the guy sitting in half guard, he falls

[52:04] back, and he wins the fight. So I tell

[52:06] him, I go, "That's a cool move. I should

[52:08] remember that." Next day I'm in a fight

[52:10] >> and I'm in that position. I go,

[52:12] [laughter] "I'll try it." Right? So, I

[52:14] grab it. But since I never trained

[52:16] before, uh before I had no clue what I

[52:19] was really doing, I didn't know that I

[52:21] was going to by falling back putting an

[52:23] enormous amount of pressure on his leg.

[52:26] Well, in this case, normally the knee

[52:27] will pop, but his knee was stronger than

[52:29] his shimb. So, the shimbone broke in

[52:31] half and that guy was and I felt very

[52:34] bad for the uh for a very long time

[52:37] about that especially went to the

[52:39] hospital. So, we got an infection in it.

[52:40] He was like 6 months there. It was s I

[52:43] when I visited him there I I yeah I was

[52:46] crying I felt so bad for the guy you

[52:48] know so that it really hurt me you know

[52:50] you it sometimes it goes too hard and

[52:52] thankfully it was a professional fight

[52:53] he signed up for it is not a pro but I

[52:55] never want to have that experience on

[52:57] the street with somebody you can kill

[52:59] somebody if somebody doesn't know how to

[53:00] take a shot he's completely relaxed and

[53:03] you it's a full punch that lands him you

[53:05] can do some damage so I would go for the

[53:06] body a lot you know or a low kick if

[53:09] nobody knows how to kick to the legs

[53:11] that

[53:13] it's one kick, that's it. Fight's over.

[53:15] You know, they can't walk anymore

[53:16] because they don't know how to deal with

[53:18] it yet. You know, the muscle is relaxed.

[53:20] It penetrates straight through. That's a

[53:21] heavy leg coming shin bone with thinking

[53:23] god knows how many miles an hour and the

[53:25] weight of the leg. You're not going to

[53:26] win that. You know, you're going to go

[53:27] down and that's actually a funnier thing

[53:29] because that is simply can't walk

[53:31] anymore. And then you can walk up and

[53:32] you go, you want to you want to keep

[53:34] going? They go, no, no, no. So, it's

[53:36] kind of a cooler thing to do as well,

[53:37] but then you don't hurt them. You know,

[53:39] I will feel horrible if you

[53:41] >> by accident put somebody in in really

[53:43] bad in the hospital.

[53:45] >> Yeah. We don't we don't think in the

[53:47] moment that we're all connected as well.

[53:48] Like the the very angry person who's

[53:51] getting in your face could also be a

[53:52] parent, you know, a family member that

[53:55] others rely on.

[53:56] >> That could be. God knows what happened

[53:57] to him the last week,

[53:59] >> you know, and a few drinks makes him

[54:00] crazy. I don't know,

[54:02] >> but it's possible. Yeah. So, that's what

[54:04] I always say on the street. The guy cuts

[54:06] you off. That's the same example. You

[54:08] know, he cuts you off and people get

[54:09] angry right away. I go in my talks. I

[54:11] say about this. What if a guy Oh, no. I

[54:13] start by saying, imagine you see a guy

[54:15] and he's passing you high speed and he

[54:17] cuts like six cars in front of you. He

[54:20] cuts a guy and he keeps going. Do you

[54:22] get angry? No. But you think, what an

[54:24] idiot. That's it, right? That's that's

[54:26] pretty much your emotion.

[54:28] >> But if he does it to you

[54:30] >> now, oh, how dare he do that to me?

[54:33] That's pride. Step away from that dude.

[54:36] And most of the time, like I said again,

[54:38] we don't know what's going on. He might

[54:40] be racing to the hospital, you know,

[54:42] that we don't know. So let it go.

[54:45] There's nothing you can do. Why would

[54:47] you get angry about it, you know? So

[54:49] yeah, just think about that. Again, you

[54:51] see those situations I'm thinking about

[54:53] constantly. I found this out with a a

[54:55] friend of mine. That's literally how I

[54:57] found out. He was driving and I was

[54:58] sitting shotgun and the guy cuts us off

[55:00] and he gets angry and I go, "Yeah,

[55:03] it's just an idiot." Yes. And then it

[55:05] gets cried in the go, "Oh," I go, "Oh

[55:07] no." He goes, "What?" I go, "Dude, it's

[55:09] pride." He goes, "What is pride?" And

[55:10] he's also a devout Catholic. I go, "If

[55:13] I'm driving and they do that to me, I

[55:16] get angry. But now I'm sitting next to

[55:18] you. You're driving and I'm not angry.

[55:21] So I see it as a personal attack. That's

[55:24] it's the dumbest thing there is. You

[55:26] see, it's the same situation only I'm

[55:28] not driving." And that's helped me a lot

[55:30] as well. Situations like that. I right

[55:32] away see the the the the spark from it

[55:35] that I can use in my own life because

[55:37] it's a work in progress. We all want to

[55:39] be in control. It's not that easy,

[55:41] right? You're going to work really

[55:44] really hard

[55:45] >> every single day, every moment. It's on

[55:48] my mind. If there's a crazy guy and I

[55:50] even think I go and I go, don't you

[55:53] don't think that constantly catching

[55:55] myself. I want it so that I don't even

[55:58] have that tenth of a second. I just

[56:01] wanted to be [clears throat] like that

[56:03] act like this real stoics like Aurelius

[56:05] or so Santa that you're talking about

[56:07] who completely do not get bothered by

[56:09] it. Fosin, that's what they say in

[56:12] Japan. That's the same thing as

[56:13] constancy, you know. Doesn't matter what

[56:15] situation, what elevation, you're

[56:17] completely under control, you know.

[56:19] That's what I want. But it's a lot of

[56:21] work. But it's working because in the

[56:23] past, you know, I've been working for

[56:24] years on this, you know, but it's

[56:26] getting less. It's getting less every

[56:28] single time. You simply neglect it. And

[56:30] you got to do that because if you one

[56:33] time give yourself in again, it's

[56:35] completely back again. So it's not like

[56:37] it's like breaking a habit, right? You

[56:39] break a habit. Yeah. It's easy once you

[56:41] have the rules. But as easy as it is to

[56:43] break habit, that's as how easy it is to

[56:45] get that habit back again. So you have

[56:47] to be constantly on your toes and know,

[56:49] oh, I would really like to feel a get a

[56:51] drink right now because I don't feel

[56:52] good. No, you said you're going to drink

[56:54] anymore. You know, and if I said I'm not

[56:56] going to drink anymore, I'm not going to

[56:57] drink anymore. Yeah, but you took and if

[56:59] I drink one beer the next day, I can't

[57:01] stand myself. But it's it was

[57:03] temperance. You could do that. No, no,

[57:05] no. It wasn't because I told myself I

[57:07] was not going to do it, but I still do

[57:09] it. That's what that's what the

[57:10] conversation I have to myself. I still

[57:13] did it and I couldn't say no to that one

[57:15] stupid drink. It it it annoys me. But

[57:18] what it does, it also helps me a lot

[57:20] because I don't want to feel like a

[57:21] loser anymore the next day. So now I can

[57:23] simply say no, I'm not going to drink

[57:25] because I said I didn't want to go

[57:26] drink. And one drink is that's for me

[57:29] already a drink because I said I was not

[57:30] going to do it. Not talking about

[57:32] getting drunk. You know, I I think

[57:35] you're a good example of your entire

[57:36] life. You've done very difficult things.

[57:38] Um, from getting destroyed in jiu-jitsu

[57:41] to saying, "I'm going to tap everyone

[57:42] out in six months and then going and

[57:43] doing it." And yet, you're also saying

[57:45] that you've been working on the

[57:47] emotional mastery side for years.

[57:49] >> And it's it's a it's a different kind of

[57:53] hard, you know, to use that kind of

[57:55] restraint when your entire body is

[57:57] saying like, "Shout at this person or

[57:59] judge this person."

[58:00] Um, so I think there's something to take

[58:02] away from that. If anyone's listening to

[58:04] this,

[58:05] >> I think it's harder fighting

[58:07] >> to to be completely under control, to

[58:09] have your temperance completely under

[58:10] control, all your virtues, prudence,

[58:11] justice, temperance, and fortitude to

[58:13] have the all and also virtues because

[58:15] there's a lot of them. If you have that

[58:17] under control, man, that was my thing.

[58:19] My life said, "What what man do you want

[58:21] to be?" This is a line when I use this

[58:22] as a talk, they always say, "Hey, repeat

[58:25] that." Because they want it. What kind

[58:27] of man you want to be? Well, I want to

[58:28] be a man who can overcome his

[58:29] weaknesses, vices, and imperfections. A

[58:31] man who is not a slave to his passions,

[58:33] emotions, and desires, but just a man

[58:35] who's completely in control of himself.

[58:37] That's what I want to be. And then I

[58:40] feel good because all these people when

[58:42] you're feeding yourself, you know it's

[58:43] not good for yourself. It's overeating,

[58:45] it's alcohol, it's drugs, it's sex, it's

[58:47] anger, whatever it is, it doesn't

[58:49] matter. You know it's not good for you

[58:50] and it starts eating at you. And every

[58:52] time you wake up, you go, "Ah, I

[58:54] shouldn't do this anymore." Every time

[58:55] when I I was drinking, I was doing

[58:56] drugs. I was I was completely loose

[58:59] cannon and 150 times 200 times that I

[59:02] would wake up and say I'm not going to

[59:03] drink today and at 4:00 boom starts

[59:05] again all night pain partying and then

[59:07] next day wake up and every time that

[59:08] happens your word to yourself doesn't

[59:11] hold value anymore. It's going away

[59:14] because you said too many times now uh

[59:17] that you were not going to do it but you

[59:18] broke that rule. Now it's easy to break

[59:20] the rule because it's normal. You've

[59:22] been doing it already for 150 times. The

[59:24] only way to stop it is to literally stop

[59:27] it. And then you're going to find out

[59:29] that if you do that, yes, it will be

[59:31] hard the first week, not even because

[59:34] you see after 3 days already the fruits,

[59:36] you're going to go like, okay, yes, it's

[59:39] hard, but I can do this because I

[59:40] already feel more clear-headed. And then

[59:42] you realize the more you say no, the

[59:43] easier it gets and and the easier it

[59:46] becomes to say no, you know, because

[59:48] you're getting stronger.

[59:50] >> And and and that's what people have to

[59:51] figure out. But they don't want to take

[59:53] that step. We all want to feel good and

[59:55] we want to look good and we want to do

[59:57] everything but we don't want to do

[59:59] anything for it. They want to take a

[1:00:01] pill to lose weight and they don't want

[1:00:02] to go to the gym. They don't want to

[1:00:03] spend time on theirelves. Your body is

[1:00:06] your it's a gift. Why would you tear it

[1:00:09] up? Would you tell a loved one? That was

[1:00:11] the last video I made. I said would you

[1:00:12] tell a loved one to start doing drugs

[1:00:14] and you eat more, you know, stop working

[1:00:16] out all these things. Would you tell

[1:00:17] them? Of course not. Why? Because you

[1:00:19] love them. Okay. So why don't you love

[1:00:20] yourself?

[1:00:22] >> Right? They don't they don't love

[1:00:25] themselves because they just keep

[1:00:26] feeding it

[1:00:27] >> and complaining and pointing at other

[1:00:29] fingers who people who are successful.

[1:00:32] That's where they want to be. But they

[1:00:33] don't want to do the work that that

[1:00:34] person had to do to get there. No, they

[1:00:36] just want to be there. That's the

[1:00:38] problem now with social media. Everybody

[1:00:40] wants to be a YouTuber. I mean, if you

[1:00:42] ask in schools, I mean, that's like an

[1:00:45] 80% answer because it's an easy way.

[1:00:48] That's what they think. It's not these

[1:00:50] real YouTubers what they have to do for

[1:00:52] it. this camera crew scripts. I mean,

[1:00:54] it's a lot of work, guys. It's

[1:00:56] traveling. Yeah, it's cool. Trust me.

[1:00:58] Fighting is cool, too, you know. But,

[1:01:01] but

[1:01:02] going to a UFC of a regular event like

[1:01:05] professional fighters league is going to

[1:01:07] be here. My friend say, "Are you going

[1:01:08] to go?" I said, "No, because I'm going

[1:01:10] to be shaking hands all day long because

[1:01:11] all these people, they know me, right?

[1:01:14] Because from the fighting, so I'm not

[1:01:16] going to watch a fight. There's

[1:01:17] constantly people coming out making

[1:01:18] pictures and that's cool, but not for

[1:01:20] two and a half hours.

[1:01:22] So yeah, be careful what you wish for. I

[1:01:25] always say I'm with my friends, famous

[1:01:27] actors, we can't go to a supermarket

[1:01:30] because people come. You see, I don't

[1:01:33] have I'm like recognized 10, 15 times a

[1:01:35] day and say, "Hey, Bop." And then

[1:01:37] somehow they still think fighters, watch

[1:01:38] out. So, so thankfully that not a lot of

[1:01:40] people start making long conversations.

[1:01:42] But it's the perfect blend for me, you

[1:01:44] know, because I look at my buddies

[1:01:47] >> like Conor McGregor, well, good luck.

[1:01:49] You need to buy a brat, well, good luck

[1:01:51] with that. Because if one person you

[1:01:53] >> Yeah.

[1:01:54] >> Everybody's coming and now you got to

[1:01:56] get out of there. Yeah. But that's cool.

[1:01:58] Not if it happens every day, man. Trust

[1:02:00] me on that. It's uh again, be careful

[1:02:03] what you wish for.

[1:02:04] >> You know, there's you're you're

[1:02:05] reminding me there's a part in the

[1:02:07] Ancaridian by Epictitus where he says

[1:02:09] that a lot of adults are like children

[1:02:11] where we we want to play dress up. Like

[1:02:13] one day we want to be a fighter, one day

[1:02:15] we want to be an actor.

[1:02:17] >> But what you need to do is look at what

[1:02:18] it actually involves. like what is the

[1:02:21] he uses the an Olympian as an example an

[1:02:23] Olympic wrestler I believe he's like

[1:02:24] what do they eat how do they train what

[1:02:27] are their injuries what's their social

[1:02:28] life like what are their sacrifices and

[1:02:30] only if you want that then you can try

[1:02:32] to be one of those but don't just think

[1:02:34] of someone on a podium with a medal and

[1:02:36] say I'm going to be that

[1:02:37] >> and what you're describing is exactly

[1:02:39] that

[1:02:40] >> yeah they want all the shortcuts and

[1:02:41] that's the pills the heartburn you see

[1:02:43] here people are so overweight you know

[1:02:46] and they and they have heartburn I said

[1:02:48] well that's your body telling you don't

[1:02:49] eat that crap, that's bad food for you.

[1:02:51] That's literally your body telling you,

[1:02:53] >> "No, no, no, no, no. I I grab a anticit,

[1:02:57] you know, like a whole bottle. If I

[1:02:58] drink that before, I can still eat that

[1:02:59] pie with all the crap on it that I

[1:03:01] want." No, you're killing yourself.

[1:03:03] Don't eat that stuff, you know. Why

[1:03:05] would you force it just because you like

[1:03:07] the taste of it? Everything needs to be

[1:03:10] good. The temperature needs to be

[1:03:11] perfect. The food cannot be overcooked

[1:03:13] or under whatever. Everything Everything

[1:03:15] is wrong. We're complaining about

[1:03:17] everything. We You have AC? Yeah. won't

[1:03:19] be me happy. A lot of people in the

[1:03:21] world don't have that warm showers that

[1:03:24] what in 1921 or something that came out.

[1:03:27] >> I mean, that's that's 100 years ago.

[1:03:29] Before that, everybody had cold showers,

[1:03:31] you know, and now it's like, oh, it's

[1:03:33] too cold, it's too hot, it's too they

[1:03:34] can still control it, you know. It's

[1:03:36] amazing to me how weak people are

[1:03:38] becoming. This discipline is gone. They

[1:03:42] don't nothing discipline for themselves.

[1:03:45] They all want to feel better, but they

[1:03:46] don't realize that cutting all that

[1:03:48] stuff out. Like with me, I thought

[1:03:50] always that I was in control because I

[1:03:52] did the drugs and the alcohol and anger

[1:03:53] and I did all that stuff because I want

[1:03:56] to be happy. No, that's pleasure. It's

[1:03:58] all pleasure. That's different. That's

[1:04:00] dopamine

[1:04:01] >> pleasure. Happiness is serotonin. It's a

[1:04:04] nice relaxed state. That's that's that's

[1:04:06] what you want to gun for, you know,

[1:04:08] because serotonin dopamine that that are

[1:04:11] all vices. You always need more in order

[1:04:14] to feel the same as you did the la the

[1:04:16] last time, you know. And if you want to

[1:04:17] walk that path, well, then don't start

[1:04:20] complaining because your life is going

[1:04:21] to go down the drain. You're not going

[1:04:22] to have a life. You're not have having

[1:04:24] goals. 17year-old, the average

[1:04:26] 17-year-old right now has 91% of his

[1:04:29] free time is on his phone.

[1:04:32] Think about that.

[1:04:33] >> What do you want to be?

[1:04:35] >> You can't make a life out of that. So, I

[1:04:38] I don't I don't know how this is going

[1:04:40] to get better. That's why I do a lot of

[1:04:42] talking and it's at colleges, you know,

[1:04:44] these younger people and I try to, you

[1:04:47] know, and hopefully with my background

[1:04:49] that they have listen, you know, but it

[1:04:51] works because every time I do a talk, I

[1:04:53] got six new other ones booked pretty

[1:04:55] much, you know, because people say,

[1:04:56] "Dude, you didn't speak everywhere. You

[1:04:57] just say whatever you want to say." I

[1:04:58] go, "Yeah, because it's the truth.

[1:05:00] >> The truth will set you free, right?

[1:05:03] That's the only way to get stronger in

[1:05:05] life. Work for it." I mean, people don't

[1:05:07] know like I I just put a video out. What

[1:05:10] I do in the morning, you know, I already

[1:05:12] before I talk to you. Uh, okay. I talked

[1:05:16] like 45 minutes to God. It started with

[1:05:18] that. Then I walk the dogs. Oh, no.

[1:05:20] First, I do my inspiratoral muscle

[1:05:21] training thing that I have here. I that

[1:05:23] that's the first thing I do. I take all

[1:05:25] my waters and my whatever the vitamins

[1:05:27] that I'm taking. I'm walking the dogs. I

[1:05:29] do I I I talk to God. I I worked out for

[1:05:32] 45 minutes. I go to mass. Then I go to

[1:05:35] mass. I go to the store, the grocery

[1:05:37] store. I bought a whole bunch of stuff.

[1:05:39] I come here, I cook for myself, my own

[1:05:41] food, not warming up in the microwave,

[1:05:43] you know, and then and then uh I did a

[1:05:45] little bit more and then I I I'm jumping

[1:05:47] on this call. This is what I already

[1:05:49] did.

[1:05:50] >> And it was only that that's what I did

[1:05:52] before 9:00 in the morning.

[1:05:54] >> You know, all that that's people

[1:05:56] normally life. So people go like, "Oh,

[1:05:58] you still look good." I go, "Yeah,

[1:06:00] >> yeah, because I work out. I do." Yeah,

[1:06:01] but you like working out. I hate working

[1:06:03] out. You don't know my body. It's

[1:06:05] killing me. But I do it. And you know

[1:06:07] why I do it? Because I know I going to

[1:06:09] feel great after I'm done.

[1:06:11] >> Those 14, 16 hours a day that I have,

[1:06:13] they're freaking phenomenal. If I do a

[1:06:15] 45minute workout, and my workouts are,

[1:06:17] they're not really 45 minutes. They're

[1:06:19] not long, but they're short and intense,

[1:06:21] but I feel so good. And what other

[1:06:23] people do, they go like they don't think

[1:06:25] about the 14, 16 hours. They think about

[1:06:27] the 45 minutes, what they had to do, the

[1:06:30] struggle in order to feel that good. So

[1:06:33] they they don't want to do it. Well, if

[1:06:35] you stop every vice there is, you're

[1:06:37] going to be happy. I'm telling you,

[1:06:40] you're going to be happy. You're not

[1:06:41] attached. Nothing is controlling you

[1:06:43] because you're just a slave to alcohol.

[1:06:46] You're a slave to any vice. You're

[1:06:48] simply a slave. It tells you what to do

[1:06:50] and you're doing it. Okay, I'm going to

[1:06:52] do it. Then we see that on social media

[1:06:54] as well. You jump hoops. You do. You're

[1:06:56] like a dogs. What I said, what does it

[1:06:58] say? Was it Sedica who said, "Oh, no,

[1:07:00] no. Oh, no. No. wasn't a

[1:07:04] a Chinese philosopher, right? I forget

[1:07:05] his name. He said, "Um, care what other

[1:07:08] people think and you will be their

[1:07:09] prisoner." And I go, "No, you will be

[1:07:12] their dog." And they go, "Dog?" I go,

[1:07:14] "Yeah, you'll be their dog. You You want

[1:07:17] what I do? Everything for the people, it

[1:07:19] may make everybody happy. Even when the

[1:07:20] dog gets beat up by his owner and each

[1:07:23] owner comes home, he's doing everything

[1:07:25] for the owner." That's what you are.

[1:07:26] You're trying to please everybody else

[1:07:28] to get your numbers up on stupid social

[1:07:30] media. Who cares?

[1:07:31] You know, so it's so for you as a stoic,

[1:07:36] you have the same feelings. I know you

[1:07:37] do because you see the going down.

[1:07:39] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:07:40] >> And the only way to get up

[1:07:41] >> Yeah.

[1:07:42] >> is live like that to cut everything out.

[1:07:47] >> 100%. Yeah. Everything you're saying is

[1:07:49] making making complete sense. I didn't

[1:07:50] realize the extent to which you you've

[1:07:52] gone down the rabbit hole with this

[1:07:54] stuff. Um you so when I was doing my

[1:07:57] research I saw that I don't know how

[1:08:00] your relationship with alcohol before

[1:08:02] but I did see that you stopped or you

[1:08:04] managed your relationship very quickly

[1:08:07] when you read the word slave.

[1:08:10] >> Could you talk about what that word

[1:08:11] meant for you and how that kind of

[1:08:13] snapped you out of

[1:08:14] >> Yeah, that was that was when I jumped

[1:08:15] back into the faith. That was in 2014

[1:08:17] and there was whatever overcomes a man

[1:08:19] to that he is enslaved. Well, enslaved

[1:08:23] this. You're a slave to it.

[1:08:24] >> And I go, "No, but I could choose when I

[1:08:27] drink." No, actually, you can't. The

[1:08:29] alcohol just have to be in the house.

[1:08:30] Doesn't say anything to you. You just

[1:08:32] want to drink it. And you can't say you

[1:08:34] can't even stop it. Something in you

[1:08:36] can't even stop it. Dude, you're a weak

[1:08:38] person. That's what I thought. How weak

[1:08:40] are you that you cannot simply say no to

[1:08:42] that bottle of alcohol?

[1:08:44] >> Yeah. And you know, if one bottle, two

[1:08:45] bottles, if I feel the spark, oh, now

[1:08:47] it's going to be 30, 35 beers. Or you

[1:08:49] drink that. Oh, I drink 15 bottles of uh

[1:08:51] uh wine. I mean, it was insane. And I

[1:08:54] never had hangovers. So, why would I

[1:08:56] stop, you know? It's that was this

[1:08:58] insane. It's [clears throat] so bad for

[1:09:00] you, you know, and you start it. It does

[1:09:02] affect you mentally because once I

[1:09:04] stopped everything, my mind came back so

[1:09:06] much stronger. I'm memorization,

[1:09:09] everything. It became better and better

[1:09:12] and better and I start feeling good

[1:09:14] again. I go, okay, now I can work out.

[1:09:16] If I would have been in that state still

[1:09:17] drink, I would have never worked out.

[1:09:19] Now, I don't want to work out, but I

[1:09:20] know I focus on the good feeling. I

[1:09:22] focus always focus on the feeling that

[1:09:24] you're gonna have from it, not what you

[1:09:26] have to do. You know, we can all do it.

[1:09:29] Like, for instance, if you're going to

[1:09:30] get married and you're overweight and

[1:09:32] your spouse is overweight, they go, "Oh,

[1:09:34] let's go like two months in so we look

[1:09:36] good for the pictures." And then I

[1:09:38] guarantee you, every single person who

[1:09:40] does that, three weeks in, they go like,

[1:09:41] "Dude, I don't understand why I never

[1:09:44] did this before. I'm feeling so good."

[1:09:47] That's what they tell everybody. And as

[1:09:49] soon as the wedding is done, they stop.

[1:09:53] It's too hard. Wait, didn't you say two

[1:09:55] months ago, right? They forget about it.

[1:09:58] And then they start gaining weight

[1:10:00] again. You should be ashamed. It's like

[1:10:01] these people with the internet, they put

[1:10:03] pictures on them, they got apps. And

[1:10:04] like I told my buddy, I said, "Take that

[1:10:06] freaking picture off of Facebook, dude.

[1:10:08] That's not you anymore. You got 20 P

[1:10:10] pounds now on you. You don't have apps.

[1:10:13] That's your profile picture. Seriously,

[1:10:15] take it off." Or what about this? Start

[1:10:17] working out again. Get those apps again

[1:10:19] and then do redo a picture. But don't

[1:10:21] put a fake you out there. Oh, that's a

[1:10:23] nice guy. Yeah. Then you see him. That's

[1:10:25] [laughter] a different person. Why would

[1:10:27] you do that?

[1:10:28] >> You see? So, yeah, man. It drives me

[1:10:31] insane. So, and and all these things

[1:10:33] that I'm saying, I did it on myself.

[1:10:35] That's how I talk to myself,

[1:10:37] >> right?

[1:10:38] >> You know, no, I would never do that

[1:10:40] because that's not who I am, you know? I

[1:10:43] would like the people me to do. Oh, did

[1:10:45] you Why didn't you never change? I go,

[1:10:48] it's because I feel good the way I am. I

[1:10:50] don't why would I need to change

[1:10:52] physically and everything. I don't want

[1:10:53] to be bigger. I don't want to be

[1:10:54] unhealthy. You know, I I love my family.

[1:10:56] I want to try to stay with my family as

[1:10:58] long as I can. So, I see already have a

[1:11:00] grandkid hopefully grand grandkids. My

[1:11:01] other daughter is pregnant now, so I

[1:11:03] going to have another one coming on the

[1:11:04] way. Spend my lifetime as long as I can.

[1:11:07] And anything that I do bad, any bad vice

[1:11:10] out there that can take years of my

[1:11:11] life,

[1:11:12] >> I like to stop with that. Which includes

[1:11:14] anger and which includes all these

[1:11:15] things as well. People don't realize

[1:11:17] what anger can really do physically to

[1:11:19] your body, you know, cancer and all that

[1:11:21] stuff. It's [clears throat]

[1:11:22] >> because we, you know, you're just

[1:11:23] constantly dragging yourself down. You

[1:11:26] are what you think, right? And nobody

[1:11:28] realizes that. Those those things that

[1:11:30] they show with water. Did you ever see

[1:11:32] that they have water in this room and

[1:11:34] water in the other room to this water?

[1:11:36] They say, "Oh man, I love you every day.

[1:11:38] I love you. I do this." But if they

[1:11:39] freeze that water, then they go they

[1:11:41] freeze that water. They go to the other

[1:11:42] room and say, "I hate you. I do." They

[1:11:44] they talk to water. Water water. They

[1:11:48] freeze that water. And then you look at

[1:11:49] the crystals. Google that. You'll be

[1:11:52] insane. Like beautiful crystals for the

[1:11:55] the loved one. And the other ones are

[1:11:57] just chucks and clumps and all that

[1:11:59] stuff. That is water. Well, we're 90%

[1:12:02] water.

[1:12:03] So feed yourself with positivity the

[1:12:06] whole time because your mind starts

[1:12:08] believe if you say oh my god I'm such a

[1:12:09] dumbass. If you say that the whole time

[1:12:11] you're becoming a dumbass because you're

[1:12:13] telling your mind that you are but you

[1:12:15] know I'm actually I'm telling myself I'm

[1:12:18] talk talk to to yourself as if it is

[1:12:21] already happening. It's the universe

[1:12:23] man. I'm telling you thank you for me

[1:12:25] being healthy. Thank you for my great

[1:12:27] mind that I have that I can retain

[1:12:29] information. Thank you. All these things

[1:12:31] I want, but you have to talk it like

[1:12:33] it's already happening. And then you see

[1:12:35] it literally going up. You're giving

[1:12:38] yourself love. Man, I'm feeling good.

[1:12:40] You know, even when you feel bad, start

[1:12:43] saying that, you know, and then suddenly

[1:12:44] you get out of it. But if it doesn't

[1:12:46] work for somebody within 30 seconds, ah,

[1:12:49] doesn't work.

[1:12:50] >> No. What about 10 minutes, 15 minutes?

[1:12:52] Only focus on that. You see, you're

[1:12:54] going to change. I'm telling you, you're

[1:12:56] going to change. You're going to feel

[1:12:57] good.

[1:13:00] the way you were describing the putting

[1:13:02] the the leaner picture up on social

[1:13:04] media on Facebook, the way you were

[1:13:05] describing talking to that person, to me

[1:13:07] that is real compassion.

[1:13:09] >> You know, it's s it's sort of like I

[1:13:10] care enough about you that I'm going to

[1:13:12] be honest with you instead of I'm going

[1:13:13] to like uh be indirect and not try and

[1:13:16] offend you. I think a a good way to

[1:13:18] think about it is what would you say to

[1:13:19] your own child? Like if your own child

[1:13:21] was acting up, you wouldn't just be

[1:13:23] like, "Oh yeah, carry on."

[1:13:24] >> You would be like, "No, let's sort this

[1:13:26] out because I love you." you know, let's

[1:13:28] let's let's get this sorted out. So,

[1:13:30] there's something um I noticed in the

[1:13:31] way you were framing that that I thought

[1:13:33] was actually truly kind of

[1:13:35] >> because you're willing to say things and

[1:13:37] I could have said because this is

[1:13:39] literally what happened to me, but I

[1:13:40] didn't say that. I say it different to

[1:13:42] him. He's overweight. He's Canadian guy

[1:13:44] lives now in Italy and he hates his life

[1:13:46] because he's overweight. Overweight,

[1:13:47] over this is about six, seven months

[1:13:48] ago. And I go and he goes, "Yeah." And I

[1:13:50] get those. I said, "I just selfish ass."

[1:13:53] And he goes, "What?" I say, "You're a

[1:13:54] selfish person. That's what you are. And

[1:13:57] he it gets quiet. He goes, "What do you

[1:13:59] mean?" I go, "You put yourself in front

[1:14:00] of your family. Be be for your family.

[1:14:03] You don't think that what I just told

[1:14:05] you." I said, I said, "You don't think

[1:14:06] that your family wants you around for a

[1:14:08] very long time? You don't think they

[1:14:10] going to hate it when you die? You're

[1:14:11] taking years of your life because you

[1:14:14] are more important than your own family

[1:14:16] is." And he got quiet. And then he says,

[1:14:19] "Okay, you know, uh, okay. Well, well,

[1:14:22] we'll talk later." Boom. Hangs up the

[1:14:23] phone. 10 minutes later, bing, I got a

[1:14:26] WhatsApp, he goes, "Dude, it's best

[1:14:28] thing you ever could tell me." Best

[1:14:30] thing you ever told me. I said, "Yeah,

[1:14:31] because I love you." And so, and now I

[1:14:33] tell you why I told you. Because that's

[1:14:34] what I told myself.

[1:14:36] >> I was looking in the mirror at the

[1:14:38] druggie, at the drinker, at everything.

[1:14:39] And I said, "You're a selfish guy, man.

[1:14:42] You put yourself above your family. Your

[1:14:44] family should be number one." That's

[1:14:46] what I told myself. And that's when

[1:14:48] everything quit also. So now I told him,

[1:14:50] but if I would have told him in that

[1:14:52] order,

[1:14:53] >> it would have had the impact that it had

[1:14:55] when I did it the way I did it because

[1:14:57] now it was a shocker to him. Yeah. You

[1:14:59] know, but I did it again, like you said,

[1:15:01] out of love. I want you to have the

[1:15:03] best. And I know this is going to really

[1:15:05] upset you, but it's going to help you

[1:15:07] >> because you're going to start thinking

[1:15:08] about it within 15 minutes. Lost 70 65

[1:15:12] pounds now, I think. So

[1:15:14] >> it worked.

[1:15:15] >> Wow. Yes. That's amazing. I think uh so

[1:15:18] Epictitus' teacher Mousonius Rufus said

[1:15:20] that he wanted his lectures to kind of

[1:15:22] end in silence. So it was interesting

[1:15:24] that you said things went quiet. He

[1:15:26] didn't want applause. He wanted that

[1:15:28] kind of wow I I don't know what to say.

[1:15:30] I don't actually feel very good after

[1:15:32] this. But that that's what

[1:15:33] >> and they can't say anything because they

[1:15:34] know it's the truth.

[1:15:36] >> If they go like I said tell me I'm

[1:15:38] wrong.

[1:15:40] >> Right. They can't say that. No no no

[1:15:42] you're wrong. They can't.

[1:15:43] >> They can't. It's the truth. M

[1:15:45] >> you know that's that's the best thing

[1:15:47] you know you're just telling the truth

[1:15:49] but nowadays you can't tell truth to

[1:15:50] anybody to people you know if somebody's

[1:15:52] wearing shoes I've talked about that as

[1:15:54] well what do you think of my new shoes

[1:15:56] don't like them and they get angry I go

[1:15:58] well then don't ask me about your shoes

[1:15:59] I don't like those shoes is that really

[1:16:01] so bad think about why are you getting

[1:16:03] angry now

[1:16:05] >> I mean everybody do you like the Beatles

[1:16:07] no I love the Beatles

[1:16:09] >> and you oh now you don't get angry you

[1:16:11] see what color do you like you do this

[1:16:13] with everything but is the stakes they

[1:16:16] somehow become higher. If it's pride

[1:16:18] involved, I don't know what it is. It's

[1:16:20] weird how people's minds are going.

[1:16:23] >> Yeah. Identification with something,

[1:16:25] they start thinking the idea is them as

[1:16:28] opposed to something external.

[1:16:29] >> If I is great, therefore it has to be

[1:16:31] great. And if somebody says it's not,

[1:16:34] >> it pride again.

[1:16:36] >> Pride keeps coming up. Um so you

[1:16:39] mentioned uh the overlap between

[1:16:41] stoicism and Catholicism in in our

[1:16:44] correspondence. So in 2013 in your late

[1:16:48] 40s you returned to Catholic faith um

[1:16:52] which you you you you you had as a child

[1:16:55] and you practiced practice it I still

[1:16:58] believe today with a lot of um

[1:17:00] discipline and temperance and daily um

[1:17:04] not missing any days um just like with

[1:17:06] your training um you know bringing that

[1:17:08] same discipline and when I was

[1:17:10] researching this apparently you lost

[1:17:12] some followers a lot

[1:17:14] >> um because you 175 5,000 like in in two

[1:17:17] days on Facebook.

[1:17:19] >> Wow.

[1:17:19] >> Yeah. Because I wanted to be a good guy.

[1:17:21] >> Wow.

[1:17:23] >> So I was happy because they're the bad

[1:17:24] people anyway. I didn't need them, you

[1:17:26] know, and now it's it's coming back. So

[1:17:27] that was good.

[1:17:28] >> But yeah, it took a long time. I lost

[1:17:30] jobs. I lost everything. Like when they

[1:17:32] talk about the devil and all that stuff,

[1:17:34] I lost everything.

[1:17:36] >> I had a show on TV for nine years. That

[1:17:38] was going accommodating job for seven

[1:17:39] years. That was I mean within within 6

[1:17:41] weeks of all that I came back to this

[1:17:44] >> everything starts going business deals

[1:17:45] went wrong everything was wrong I was

[1:17:47] like what is going on

[1:17:49] >> and then actually a friend of mine

[1:17:50] >> wow

[1:17:51] >> said that I need to pray start praying a

[1:17:53] daily rosary that's how it started and I

[1:17:56] started doing that and I remember the

[1:17:57] first time I prayed a hum I was have my

[1:17:59] eyes closed I heard this weird sound

[1:18:02] >> sound was a hummingbird right in front

[1:18:04] of me here

[1:18:05] >> and I'm look open my eyes I go hey dude

[1:18:07] what's up and he's

[1:18:10] You know, he's just in front of me. Oh,

[1:18:12] man. This is so cool. You're so

[1:18:13] beautiful. And I'm just talking and I

[1:18:15] go, [ __ ] goes off. Next day I'm sitting

[1:18:17] there again where Rosie Honey is back,

[1:18:21] you know, and that was it. It was

[1:18:22] literally within a week, poof, I got a

[1:18:23] job. Poof, I got this. Poof, I got this.

[1:18:25] And everything starts suddenly started

[1:18:27] coming back, you know. And then slowly

[1:18:29] but surely, the internet, the the the

[1:18:31] followers start growing again. Everybody

[1:18:33] start coming back. And then a lot of

[1:18:35] people start contacting me about it, you

[1:18:38] know, oh, I lost the faith and but I saw

[1:18:39] your video and I got back into the faith

[1:18:42] and man, I'm feeling so good right now.

[1:18:43] And it kept boom boom boom boom boom

[1:18:45] boom boom and now and now I'm talking

[1:18:47] for the faith. I do a speaking

[1:18:49] engagement. So, you know, and I love it

[1:18:51] because we're changing people. People

[1:18:52] don't want they don't want to tell pe

[1:18:56] people who never experienced things in

[1:18:58] their life who always been good.

[1:19:01] It's not really hard to learn from

[1:19:03] because you never made a mistake.

[1:19:04] >> But if you listen to a guy like me who

[1:19:07] did everything wrong and I could dig

[1:19:10] myself out of it, you know, then maybe

[1:19:13] people going to go, "Hey, wait a minute.

[1:19:14] I'm in that situation. I do this. I did

[1:19:16] this. I did that. I did that. I did a

[1:19:17] lot wrong, you know." So, and and that

[1:19:21] inspires some people. And if it does, if

[1:19:23] it's one person, if I can save one

[1:19:24] person with it, I'm already happy, you

[1:19:26] know. But it it's working. A lot of

[1:19:28] people are saying that you need to speak

[1:19:30] here, you need to speak there. So, I'm

[1:19:32] really enjoying those talks

[1:19:34] >> just like I was enjoying teaching

[1:19:36] classes. I love to bring over the the

[1:19:39] the fundamentals of fighting, you know,

[1:19:42] to really get inside their heads and uh

[1:19:45] and be and especially when I see

[1:19:47] somebody loves it, you know, like I was

[1:19:49] a person you ask you something and then

[1:19:50] when you when you tell me how to do it,

[1:19:52] that's the way I do it immediately. And

[1:19:54] if I don't do it immediately, tomorrow

[1:19:55] will be the job because I will make sure

[1:19:58] this is going to be fixed in a second.

[1:20:00] >> So if you come in with me and you're

[1:20:02] asking me about things, I had this

[1:20:03] fighter coming in. He just knocked out a

[1:20:05] big Russian guy. Was complete lucky

[1:20:07] shot. And he thought he was the man and

[1:20:09] everything. And he says, "Hey, want to

[1:20:11] come and train in my gym?" And he's

[1:20:12] training there. And he goes, "Okay, I

[1:20:14] want you to look and give me pointers on

[1:20:16] what I have to fix." Well, there was a

[1:20:18] lot fixed, right? So he comes out train.

[1:20:21] What is it? He says, "Do I got like nine

[1:20:23] things that that you're really going to

[1:20:25] have to improve on? It's a lot." "Okay,

[1:20:26] what are those?" I said, "I'll give you

[1:20:27] one." I said, "And once you fix that

[1:20:29] one, we're going to go to the two

[1:20:31] because if I'm going to give you nine,

[1:20:32] there's no way you can fix this." Three

[1:20:34] weeks later, he comes back to me. Hey,

[1:20:37] so what's the second thing? You never

[1:20:39] told me the second thing. I say, "You

[1:20:40] still didn't fix the first thing." You

[1:20:42] see, then you lost my respect already. I

[1:20:44] don't even want to train you anymore

[1:20:47] >> because that's you're not a fighter. and

[1:20:49] and and he and he said while he was

[1:20:52] sparring with shin guards that his uh

[1:20:56] skin the skin on his shin was hurting

[1:20:59] a fighter a professional fighter

[1:21:03] >> I go yeah I'm out dude I can't I mean

[1:21:06] complaining because your skin hurts that

[1:21:09] is like the dumbest thing you can ever

[1:21:11] tell me because I'm out I check out

[1:21:13] right away I don't want to do that it's

[1:21:14] the same thing with coming late you show

[1:21:16] up late be trained by me and You show up

[1:21:19] late, you got one more chance.

[1:21:22] >> I do.

[1:21:22] >> If there's a real reason for it, if I'm

[1:21:24] on time, you can be on time. I'm

[1:21:26] actually here 15 minutes before. I will

[1:21:28] always be on time. Always. My entire

[1:21:30] life has been doing that. If I say

[1:21:32] 10:00, I'll be there before 10:00.

[1:21:34] Always. Or something bad happens, but

[1:21:37] there's a good excuse, an accident or

[1:21:39] whatever it happens. That's a different

[1:21:40] thing. But just coming late, that's so

[1:21:43] disrespectful to me. You got one more

[1:21:45] check. And then if they go a second time

[1:21:47] and there's no explanation, you're out.

[1:21:49] I'm not training you anymore. Doesn't

[1:21:51] matter who you are.

[1:21:52] >> I'm not going to do it. You know, I just

[1:21:54] have standards that I don't want to

[1:21:56] break. That's the same when I got back

[1:21:57] to the faith with the profanity. I used

[1:21:58] a lot of profanity. I thought everybody

[1:22:00] was doing it here because I come from

[1:22:01] Holland. Why we see the movies?

[1:22:03] >> And then I just think suddenly I go, why

[1:22:05] am I doing this? What do you What do you

[1:22:08] gain by it? A friend of mine said, why

[1:22:10] wouldn't you do it anymore? I said, why

[1:22:12] would you? And he looks at me.

[1:22:15] >> Flip it back. Yeah.

[1:22:16] >> Does it make you stronger? It doesn't do

[1:22:18] anything. If it makes me stronger,

[1:22:19] mentally stronger, smarter, yeah, of

[1:22:21] course I'm going to do it. Doesn't do

[1:22:23] anything of it. Actually makes me look

[1:22:24] dumber to me. People that do it every

[1:22:26] line. I I'm not caring about a person

[1:22:28] who drops an Fbomb one time. Absolutely

[1:22:31] not.

[1:22:31] >> But in every sentence, this effing guy

[1:22:33] was having telling me I go, "Oh, the

[1:22:36] whole time. Come on, do it. You're

[1:22:38] compensating for something, an

[1:22:40] insecurity. Something is going on with

[1:22:42] you. You don't need to do that." You

[1:22:44] know, and then I start thinking about my

[1:22:45] students. Do I really want to do that in

[1:22:47] front of my students, the youth? Do I

[1:22:49] want to teach your bosses using

[1:22:51] profanity? No. Why don't I want? So now

[1:22:53] my student, it's so funny because

[1:22:55] sometimes they're talking and he goes,

[1:22:56] "Yeah, this effing guy. Oh, sorry,

[1:22:58] boss." I go, "No, don't worry about it."

[1:22:59] You know, everybody's apologizing now

[1:23:02] because they know that I um Yeah, I

[1:23:05] don't like it. It makes it it's not

[1:23:06] necessary. That's what I'm saying.

[1:23:10] >> Yeah. But it's it's a it's all part of

[1:23:12] the having standards and like having

[1:23:14] values and living according to those. A

[1:23:16] lot of people's profanity is just

[1:23:17] unconscious

[1:23:18] >> and you your process is I'm going to

[1:23:20] make it conscious like do like and think

[1:23:22] about it. Do I want to do it? Why would

[1:23:24] I do it? Why wouldn't I do it? And now

[1:23:25] you've just decided through reason where

[1:23:28] you stand with it. I I I love that. Um

[1:23:31] you mentioned that you see a lot of

[1:23:32] overlap between stoicism and Catholic

[1:23:34] principles. Where do they line up most

[1:23:37] for you? And do you think that they kind

[1:23:38] of pull against each other at all or do

[1:23:40] you just think there's a lot of

[1:23:42] >> book? I didn't put it here because it

[1:23:43] lays open actually with a picture of my

[1:23:45] mom that I just found. I'm going to hang

[1:23:47] up. Look at this. [laughter]

[1:23:50] >> So,

[1:23:50] >> wow,

[1:23:52] that's cool.

[1:23:52] >> The Daily Stoic from Marcus Aurelius.

[1:23:55] And when I my my daughter gave this to

[1:23:56] me one

[1:23:57] >> and I start reading this and I go

[1:24:00] was a Catholic. That's that's the

[1:24:02] Catholic principles.

[1:24:03] >> You know, it's exactly the same. the

[1:24:05] virtues, the temperance, all the you

[1:24:06] know the kind of virtue only you guys

[1:24:08] are with with nature accordance to

[1:24:10] nature and reason you talk about but

[1:24:12] well we believe there's a creator for

[1:24:14] that nature of course and that's but but

[1:24:16] for the rest having yourself under

[1:24:18] control I'm talking about the Catholic

[1:24:20] faith like with the Protestant faith

[1:24:22] it's Catholic faith you have I'm talking

[1:24:26] living a as a Catholic that's what I'm

[1:24:28] talking about not going to church once a

[1:24:30] week you know and thinking you're a

[1:24:32] Catholic and then just flipping people

[1:24:33] off and on that when you get out of

[1:24:36] church already get they just start

[1:24:38] screaming at people no that's not a real

[1:24:40] I need mean a practicing one you know

[1:24:43] and for us to control all those virtues

[1:24:46] the prudence and the justice tempers and

[1:24:48] fortitude anti virtues that I talked

[1:24:50] about in the beginning it's a very hard

[1:24:52] thing to do and for me that's a

[1:24:53] challenge I want to be that guy I want

[1:24:55] to be see if I can get myself completely

[1:24:57] under control and that's with the

[1:24:59] Catholics so with the Protestants they

[1:25:01] it's well you can pretty much do

[1:25:03] anything what you want to

[1:25:04] uh as long as you say sorry God I love

[1:25:06] you I believe in you you're going to go

[1:25:08] to heaven I go well I don't think it

[1:25:09] works like that I think there needs to

[1:25:11] be rules that's why we got the ten

[1:25:13] commandments that's another thing right

[1:25:14] people go like oh if uh Jesus only wants

[1:25:17] um uh love why is there so much hate in

[1:25:21] the world I go because if there's no

[1:25:23] [clears throat] hate you wouldn't know

[1:25:24] what love was

[1:25:26] if there's no opposites you don't know

[1:25:27] what a thing is if there's no anger

[1:25:30] there's no there's no peace if there's

[1:25:32] no sadness there's no happiness there's

[1:25:34] It's going to be gone. We're going to be

[1:25:35] just people walking around with no

[1:25:37] feelings whatsoever pushing things

[1:25:39] around whatever we're doing. We're just

[1:25:41] robots. No, no, no. He want to give us

[1:25:43] free will. So the reason why there's so

[1:25:46] much anger and violence in the world is

[1:25:47] you and it's me and it's everybody else.

[1:25:50] That's why there's a violence because if

[1:25:51] you would live to the letter by the ten

[1:25:54] commandments that they gave us, and I

[1:25:56] mean to the letter, there wouldn't there

[1:25:58] wouldn't be violence. There wouldn't be

[1:25:59] nothing. Everything would be perfect.

[1:26:01] And that's stoicism as well because

[1:26:03] that's controlling those virtues, you

[1:26:05] know. And that's why I saw right away I

[1:26:07] go, my god, he was persecuting

[1:26:09] Christians not knowing that they have

[1:26:11] the same beliefs. They only believe that

[1:26:14] it came from God because well, something

[1:26:16] cannot come out of nothing, right?

[1:26:18] That's the very easy one for me, I

[1:26:19] always say. So that's and that's what

[1:26:22] really attracts me to stoicism because I

[1:26:26] I love to read about that because I I

[1:26:28] want to be that man that completely is

[1:26:31] in control of himself.

[1:26:34] >> Yeah. Yeah. that that there absolutely

[1:26:37] is so much overlap and um I think I

[1:26:40] think uh there there were a lot of very

[1:26:42] influential Christians more in the last

[1:26:45] few hundred years that were heavily

[1:26:46] influenced by the Stoics as well and the

[1:26:48] Stoics had this idea of the universe as

[1:26:50] being

[1:26:51] >> uh having its own intelligence um you

[1:26:54] know like the logos which it ties in as

[1:26:56] well. My son actually goes, my

[1:26:58] seven-year-old son goes to a Catholic

[1:27:00] school and uh it's really cool. Like he

[1:27:03] came home one day and he was like five

[1:27:04] or six and he was like, I know what the

[1:27:06] word temptation means, you know, and

[1:27:08] it's just like the the values and the

[1:27:10] things that he's learning. I just

[1:27:11] thought was like really interesting and

[1:27:13] I kind of wondering like what what is he

[1:27:16] learning and symbolism and language that

[1:27:20] is going to be useful for him later on

[1:27:21] in life that um like a non-religious

[1:27:24] school wouldn't be able to teach him. So

[1:27:26] there's a lot of really good values

[1:27:28] there. Um, so in stoicism there's this

[1:27:33] idea of amorati or loving your fate, you

[1:27:35] know, which it sounds like you've

[1:27:37] completely mastered that, you know,

[1:27:38] because you've flipped everything over

[1:27:40] from bullying to injuries as I'm glad it

[1:27:43] happened, you know, like I'm I wouldn't

[1:27:45] have it any other way. Um, when you were

[1:27:48] at your lowest, were you able to tap

[1:27:50] into this acceptance of fate? Uh, were

[1:27:53] you a naturally trusting person or was

[1:27:54] it something you learned over years?

[1:27:56] >> I learned over years. I always thought I

[1:27:57] was in control. It was me who was

[1:28:00] training. It was me who was doing

[1:28:01] everything. Me, me, me, me, me, me.

[1:28:03] That's a fighter, right? You're not part

[1:28:05] of a team. Yeah. Well, you are

[1:28:07] officially because there's people

[1:28:08] helping you. But I listen, I never had

[1:28:10] coaches. I trained I trained submissions

[1:28:12] myself.

[1:28:13] >> I found that out myself. But if I get

[1:28:16] obsessed with something,

[1:28:18] oh, you have no idea. Ask my wife. She

[1:28:20] goes like, "Oh, here we go." You know,

[1:28:22] so she thought with Catholicism for

[1:28:24] instance, oh, this is going to be six

[1:28:25] weeks. She started laughing because

[1:28:26] that's my ADHD as well. If it doesn't

[1:28:28] interest me, interest me, then then it's

[1:28:31] gone pretty fast. But then she I

[1:28:34] suddenly became a different guy and I

[1:28:36] started being way more involved and way

[1:28:38] more things. And then suddenly I asked

[1:28:39] her to marry me for the third time

[1:28:42] because we got married twice already.

[1:28:44] And um

[1:28:46] >> and she immediately I I I I don't

[1:28:48] remember what she said but because but

[1:28:50] the next day I couldn't get a hold of

[1:28:51] her. And then finally she called me back

[1:28:53] uh because I left a message and I go,

[1:28:54] "What were you?" She goes, "I was a

[1:28:56] mass." I go, "You you're what? I was at

[1:28:59] mass." She said, "Yeah, because I I did

[1:29:01] I was baptized but I never did my

[1:29:03] confirmation. So I signed up for our CIA

[1:29:05] class here." So what took a lot of

[1:29:08] explanation for me with her it was just

[1:29:12] seeing me change that immediately wanted

[1:29:15] her

[1:29:16] >> to jump back into the faith with me and

[1:29:18] to do this

[1:29:19] >> and then when we start doing retreats

[1:29:20] you know again I attack things like

[1:29:23] insane like I if I lose for something I

[1:29:26] will never lose like that again that's

[1:29:28] my mindset that's so now actually this

[1:29:31] loss see made me a stronger fighter

[1:29:33] that's how I think

[1:29:34] >> a loss is always for a

[1:29:36] you're not good enough. He was simply

[1:29:37] better. Not because he cut more weight

[1:29:39] or he was doing whatever or he's using

[1:29:41] steroids. No, it's not about any of that

[1:29:43] stuff. It's about just being better, you

[1:29:46] know. And that's how I trained myself

[1:29:47] and then we started. So then I remember

[1:29:50] we had an an um a retreat and four

[1:29:54] months later we came to the retreat and

[1:29:56] they do everything in Latin there and uh

[1:29:58] and I start doing everything in Latin

[1:30:00] with them and everybody was looking at

[1:30:01] me and go like, "What the heck?" I go,

[1:30:04] "Oh, yeah." You know, if you're doing

[1:30:06] it, I need to notice. So, I start, you

[1:30:09] know, I started making the shift to

[1:30:11] completely. And now it's like I said,

[1:30:13] the morning, you know, I every morning

[1:30:16] for the last, I would say 12 years when

[1:30:18] I was really solid. Never missed one,

[1:30:22] you know, never missed the rosary, never

[1:30:23] missed my readings, never missed my

[1:30:24] examination of conscience that I do

[1:30:26] every evening going over the day. What

[1:30:28] did you do wrong? What did you do right?

[1:30:30] How if you did it right, can you make it

[1:30:31] better the next time? you know what did

[1:30:33] what didn't you do but you should have

[1:30:35] done like all these things I go over my

[1:30:37] day how I can fix that and hopefully

[1:30:39] most of the time the next day in the

[1:30:41] morning some other ones pop up from the

[1:30:43] day that I

[1:30:44] >> you know and I work that into my prayers

[1:30:46] and then my readings and all that stuff

[1:30:48] and it just makes me feel really good

[1:30:51] I've since I started doing that my life

[1:30:53] has been really good so why would I stop

[1:30:56] doing it you know and yes there's

[1:30:58] moments that you don't want to do it you

[1:31:00] know but then again discipline It makes

[1:31:02] you do it. Same as my working out. This

[1:31:04] is just working out this muscle. But my

[1:31:06] work I need to have this fit. And that's

[1:31:08] what the Stokes also believe. How can

[1:31:10] you control uh be the person in control

[1:31:13] if you can't control yourself, right? I

[1:31:15] mean, how can you lead if if you don't

[1:31:18] lead yourself? You see, and that's what

[1:31:21] really attracted me also in stoicism.

[1:31:23] And and and that's when I saw, oh, it's

[1:31:25] it's the same. It's we have the same

[1:31:26] principles. Think about it.

[1:31:28] >> Definitely.

[1:31:30] you're and you are your unfair advantage

[1:31:32] is that you are a practitioner through

[1:31:34] and through and I'm assuming that comes

[1:31:36] from just years of uh martial arts and

[1:31:39] training. A lot of people they might

[1:31:41] read stoicism

[1:31:42] >> or read some texts um in the Catholic

[1:31:46] faith and sort of go, "Oh, that's cool.

[1:31:48] That's nice." And then put it down.

[1:31:50] >> But you're a practitioner. You practice.

[1:31:52] What is the value for people listening

[1:31:54] of actually doing the work and

[1:31:56] practicing as opposed to just reading

[1:31:57] about

[1:31:58] >> it's it's the the problem with BF we

[1:32:00] want instant gratification you know so I

[1:32:03] my my my cousin is down there's a lot

[1:32:06] wrong with him start doing a rosary did

[1:32:09] it for a week doesn't work stops with it

[1:32:11] you know no it's the continuation you

[1:32:14] need to keep going keep doing it keep

[1:32:16] doing it yes so and once you keep doing

[1:32:19] it becomes normal it becomes a habit and

[1:32:20] once it's a habit now it's normal to you

[1:32:22] to do it every single day. I don't have

[1:32:24] the time for it. I was laying in bed

[1:32:26] till 8:00, 9:00 in the morning. Not now.

[1:32:28] I wake up at 5 and because otherwise I

[1:32:31] have don't have the time to do

[1:32:32] everything before I go to mass, you

[1:32:34] know. So already working out and the

[1:32:36] working out, I see there's still a

[1:32:38] little bit of weakness in me because if

[1:32:40] I tell myself, oh, I will work out later

[1:32:42] in the day, there might be something

[1:32:44] coming, maybe something I have to do an

[1:32:46] interview or whatever it is that's going

[1:32:48] to steer me away from it and then after

[1:32:49] the interview, I don't want to do it

[1:32:50] anymore. Now to avoid that

[1:32:52] >> I simply do it every day. It's like my I

[1:32:54] invented that lung training device to

[1:32:56] expand your chest so you can put more

[1:32:58] air in your lungs. It's the first thing

[1:32:59] I do. And they say how you do it? Oh,

[1:33:01] I've been doing it for eight years every

[1:33:03] single day.

[1:33:04] >> You miss one? Yes, those I miss once

[1:33:07] maybe 2%.

[1:33:10] >> But that's it. That's but I drive fly to

[1:33:12] Dubai and I didn't you know and I get

[1:33:14] really tired. Okay, today I'm not going

[1:33:16] to do it. But the next morning, first

[1:33:18] thing I do, I pop it in and I start

[1:33:20] doing it again. Do I want to do it with

[1:33:22] a jet lag and all that stuff? No. But I

[1:33:24] do it because I know if I don't do it,

[1:33:26] then the next time not doing it is

[1:33:28] already easier to not do because you get

[1:33:30] you get,

[1:33:32] >> you know, keep the habit. It's what I

[1:33:34] tell people, you know, when you say,

[1:33:35] "Okay, tomorrow." How many times did

[1:33:37] somebody say, "Okay, Monday, I'm going

[1:33:38] to start training again." And and they

[1:33:40] didn't do it. That's 99% of the time.

[1:33:44] All the time.

[1:33:44] >> Yeah. You know, I I say put an hour. You

[1:33:48] say, "Okay, on Monday at 9:00, whatever

[1:33:50] happens, you're going to do it." Oh, but

[1:33:52] now I don't feel so good. But still use

[1:33:54] that hour to maybe do something very

[1:33:56] light. Maybe do stretching, whatever it

[1:33:59] is. Keep that one hour that you said you

[1:34:01] were going to do something and do

[1:34:03] anything that is good for your body. It

[1:34:05] doesn't need to be intense. That's the

[1:34:07] thing we think all the weights and

[1:34:09] everything. I get 40minute workouts,

[1:34:12] >> but my workouts are pretty gnarly. It

[1:34:14] didn't start like that, you know.

[1:34:15] There's no rest with me. Everything is

[1:34:16] supersets. It goes back for back for

[1:34:18] back for back for next four exercises.

[1:34:20] Da da da da da. Next four two exercises

[1:34:23] >> constantly. No rest. Zero. Do that. Like

[1:34:26] I do five breaths. One, two, and five.

[1:34:29] Boom. Next exercise. That's what I'm at

[1:34:31] now. You see? I want to see if I can

[1:34:33] really cut all breaths out. You see,

[1:34:36] that's my goal to make it a 35 minute

[1:34:39] workout or 30 pics or whatever it is

[1:34:42] because it's seconds. But you see,

[1:34:44] there's always needs to be goal. You can

[1:34:45] always improve on something. And then

[1:34:47] when there's a day that, oh, this is

[1:34:49] really hurting, I'll do something else,

[1:34:51] but I keep that hour so I don't break

[1:34:55] that habit and and then stretch for an

[1:34:57] hour. Whatever I do, I'm I'm I'm doing

[1:35:00] it, you know. And that's the trick. And

[1:35:02] it's hard. It is really hard because

[1:35:04] there's many times I don't want to do

[1:35:06] it. But if I do it now, I know that I'm

[1:35:08] not only get physically stronger, also

[1:35:10] mentally stronger because now I'm doing

[1:35:13] something I really don't want to do. And

[1:35:15] that is a really good thing for every

[1:35:18] time, every day, you should do something

[1:35:19] that you don't want to do. I tell

[1:35:20] people,

[1:35:21] >> oh, I really don't want to do it. Do it

[1:35:23] now. It's like problems problems arise

[1:35:25] problem. Oh, procrastinate, right? Oh,

[1:35:27] we'll do it next week. No, because now

[1:35:29] it's over your head the whole time. The

[1:35:31] whole time. Fix it now. So it's not a

[1:35:33] problem anymore. You can let it go and

[1:35:35] the problem is gone because you're going

[1:35:38] to deal the same with it in three weeks

[1:35:40] from now or a year from now than you do

[1:35:42] now. It's like drinking. It will always

[1:35:44] go wrong. It will always go wrong. There

[1:35:48] is no upside.

[1:35:49] >> So whatever you want to do, why don't

[1:35:51] you do it now?

[1:35:53] >> Because you're going to have to do it

[1:35:54] eventually. So why not getting all these

[1:35:58] years that you're wasting now? Why don't

[1:35:59] I do it now? So these years are going to

[1:36:01] be fruitful years for me. You see that's

[1:36:04] why I don't get that's the weakness that

[1:36:06] we have right now. And and discipline is

[1:36:08] the only way to get out of there. Get

[1:36:11] out of there to simply do what you tell.

[1:36:13] The the biggest line I use is don't lie

[1:36:16] to yourself.

[1:36:18] You don't lie to yourself. You're good

[1:36:21] in everything. Whoa. It's that easy. No,

[1:36:24] because you lie to yourself all day. Oh,

[1:36:26] I don't lie to myself. So, okay. And

[1:36:28] then I start. How many times did you say

[1:36:30] you were going to train again? Didn't do

[1:36:31] it. Boom. That's a lie. Today I'm Oh,

[1:36:33] today I'm not going to drink. Oh, you

[1:36:34] did it again. That's a lie. Every time

[1:36:37] not going to take sugar or less sugar,

[1:36:38] whatever it is. That's another thing.

[1:36:40] People go like, "Oh, I I want to cut out

[1:36:42] sugar. Okay, tomorrow I'm not going to

[1:36:43] eat sugar anymore." No, you see how I

[1:36:45] work is different.

[1:36:47] >> Let's say I would take 10 grams of sugar

[1:36:49] a day, like I'm just giving an example.

[1:36:52] Tomorrow I'm going to take nine grams.

[1:36:54] >> I'm going to do that for a whole week or

[1:36:56] 10 days and I'm going to go to eight

[1:36:57] grams. And then suddenly in 10 weeks

[1:37:00] that habit that you had, bad habit that

[1:37:02] you had is gone and you don't even

[1:37:04] notice it because you very slowly but

[1:37:07] surely you went down in the sugar. But

[1:37:10] cutting it out right away, that's not a

[1:37:12] good thing to do. Now it's difficult.

[1:37:14] You cannot do this with alcohol and

[1:37:15] drugs. Of course, you can't alcohol

[1:37:18] today. I'm going to only drink five

[1:37:19] beers. It's not going to work. You know,

[1:37:21] you're going to have to cut that out.

[1:37:22] There are certain vices that there's

[1:37:24] immediately got to stop because they

[1:37:25] trigger that feeling again and then you

[1:37:27] want more of it and if you had a bad day

[1:37:29] or a good day because we grab every

[1:37:31] every excuse we have. Oh, today was a

[1:37:33] great day. I deserve a drink. Oh, today

[1:37:35] take man. Okay, I need a drink. You see,

[1:37:38] we always find reason in our warped

[1:37:40] minds to still do that stupid vice. No.

[1:37:43] And then you find out that once you

[1:37:45] completely cut it out, it's so much

[1:37:48] easier. You have so much more free. You

[1:37:51] have so much more time waking up at 5.

[1:37:53] Like I said, all the things I do before

[1:37:55] 9:00 that they do people in a day

[1:37:58] almost. Well, now a lot of people, not

[1:38:01] everybody. There's people like you as

[1:38:02] well and who actually want to work on

[1:38:04] the job.

[1:38:05] >> You see, it's it's simple and it's all

[1:38:07] the truth, but to break it, it's a hard

[1:38:10] thing to do.

[1:38:11] >> Yeah. Uh I'm I'm mindful of your time as

[1:38:14] well. So, um we've been going an hour

[1:38:16] and 40 minutes.

[1:38:18] Um the the impact that you've had is is

[1:38:20] truly incredible. Just to give you one

[1:38:22] example, I've got a friend Joel, right?

[1:38:24] and uh he's one of my best friends here

[1:38:26] and I'm in Wales in UK and he was

[1:38:29] bullied growing up and he had asthma and

[1:38:32] he has listened to your striking you

[1:38:36] know your take where you kind of give

[1:38:37] the combinations thousands of times you

[1:38:40] know and that he's now a purple belt in

[1:38:42] jiu-jitsu and you know you've completely

[1:38:44] changed his life and you would never

[1:38:46] have heard about Joel but there's

[1:38:47] there's thousands of people just like

[1:38:50] this everywhere that have been impacted

[1:38:52] by your story So, um,

[1:38:55] >> it's cool, man. I'm having

[1:38:57] >> I'm very happy now. I'm in a good place

[1:38:59] because I got myself so much more under

[1:39:01] control and and I'm not like everything

[1:39:04] we're talking about, it's not like I got

[1:39:06] everything to the tea. Trust me, you

[1:39:07] know, we'll we're all fall and we all go

[1:39:10] and and from the 4th of July, I drink a

[1:39:12] bunch of beers,

[1:39:13] >> you see. And then I go like ah and book

[1:39:16] back on the wagon, you know, because but

[1:39:18] it was the 4th of July was the

[1:39:19] neighbors. It was were seven hours

[1:39:21] there. It's like all the excuses. I

[1:39:23] know. But you see, sometimes you lose

[1:39:26] it, you know, but then it's all about

[1:39:28] right away jump back on again. No. And

[1:39:30] saying the no thing. So, uh, yeah, it's

[1:39:33] all a struggle. Don't don't look at me

[1:39:34] and think, "Oh my god, this guy got him

[1:39:36] under control. I'm working on that. I

[1:39:38] hope I attain it." You know, that's a

[1:39:40] hard thing to do. It's like going to

[1:39:42] heaven, like being a saint. Good luck

[1:39:44] with that. You know,

[1:39:45] >> that's what I also realized when I got

[1:39:47] back to the faith. Say, "Oh, I'm going

[1:39:48] to be a saint." Yeah. Because that's

[1:39:51] like the Stoics. they have everything

[1:39:52] completely under control.

[1:39:54] >> Senica said that he isn't he's he's in

[1:39:57] the hospital bed with us all healing and

[1:39:59] sharing what works for him, you know,

[1:40:01] and I think I trust people that are on

[1:40:03] the path than people that have said

[1:40:04] they've completed life. I'm a little bit

[1:40:07] suspicious of people that claim to have

[1:40:09] achieved like this permanent enlightened

[1:40:11] state. Not that it's not impossible, but

[1:40:13] um I love the fact that you're a

[1:40:14] practitioner.

[1:40:16] >> Where are you most active right now?

[1:40:17] Like where if people want to keep

[1:40:19] learning from you, where where's the

[1:40:20] best place? have been recently well

[1:40:22] recently I would say like six weeks ago

[1:40:24] or something I really started with

[1:40:26] posting videos out there all what we're

[1:40:28] talking about right now and these are

[1:40:30] all problems that I attack

[1:40:31] >> that I the way I attacked it myself so I

[1:40:35] tell them I said listen this is what

[1:40:36] worked for me and I was an insane guy

[1:40:39] but if it works for me the chances are

[1:40:41] really good that really high that it's

[1:40:44] going to work for you as well so I was

[1:40:46] in Holland last week visiting my family

[1:40:49] and the amount of times I got stopped on

[1:40:51] the planes and everywhere, you know, the

[1:40:53] whole time. And I'm telling you, it was

[1:40:55] 80 85%

[1:40:57] everybody was like, "Dude, I love those

[1:40:59] videos you're doing right now." I mean,

[1:41:01] it helped me so much because it's the

[1:41:03] problems that we just talked about, you

[1:41:05] know, and I just throw it out there and

[1:41:07] I made a little clips so they don't get

[1:41:10] the it's not like you there's too many

[1:41:12] trees, you can't see the forest anymore,

[1:41:14] you know? It's like the one of those you

[1:41:16] give them in doses every time and it's

[1:41:18] just like one or two minute clips no

[1:41:20] longer

[1:41:21] >> and then from that moment on

[1:41:23] >> you know then then it can actually help

[1:41:25] you but if you overflow with it it's not

[1:41:27] going to work because we will try to fix

[1:41:29] every problem we have pick the biggest

[1:41:31] one like for me I I can count on one

[1:41:34] hand how many times I did drugs without

[1:41:36] being drunk so I knew for me alcohol was

[1:41:39] the biggest one [clears throat]

[1:41:40] >> if I alcohol that will automatically

[1:41:42] cancel the drugs

[1:41:44] >> boom Okay, good. That worked. Okay,

[1:41:46] let's work on another thing. And pick

[1:41:48] one. Pick one vice that you have. Pick

[1:41:50] the biggest one. I would say work on

[1:41:52] that one because once you attack the

[1:41:54] really big vice, you know you're capable

[1:41:57] to and and and you you succeed with it.

[1:41:59] You know you're capable of doing that.

[1:42:01] And since that was the biggest one, the

[1:42:02] rest is going to be a walk in the park.

[1:42:04] Never think it's going to be a walk in

[1:42:06] the park because that's but that's what

[1:42:08] the devil wants, right? That's when they

[1:42:09] get inside your head and you start

[1:42:10] getting weak again. You are never under

[1:42:12] control. M

[1:42:13] >> that's what I think never whatever

[1:42:15] happens.

[1:42:16] >> Yeah.

[1:42:16] >> The the times that I fought in um that I

[1:42:20] tried handle under control that was the

[1:42:22] moment that you lose. You know that's uh

[1:42:25] that's that's that's when you have a

[1:42:26] problem. No, always attack it as hard as

[1:42:30] you can. And even if you don't want to

[1:42:32] you're going to have to do it. If it's a

[1:42:33] problem that you can postpone and it

[1:42:35] will be there constantly. You're going

[1:42:36] to have to fix it. Fix it today.

[1:42:40] >> If not today, tomorrow

[1:42:42] >> get rid of that problem. So it's not a

[1:42:43] problem anymore. You can live on your

[1:42:44] life otherwise it'll keep hanging over

[1:42:46] your head and it's going to drive you

[1:42:48] nuts. You know that's like drinking like

[1:42:50] I said you know you know you're going to

[1:42:51] have to stop. You can't live like that

[1:42:54] because your life is going to go down.

[1:42:55] So why not now? That's the thing. Yeah.

[1:42:57] But I want one more time and tomorrow

[1:42:59] there's my neighbors now there. They

[1:43:01] smoke after his birthday which going to

[1:43:03] be in Vegas next week. When I come back

[1:43:05] this is the last three months I've been

[1:43:06] saying it. That's when I stop smoking uh

[1:43:10] nicotine. uh developments

[1:43:13] >> I go why don't you do it now I mean

[1:43:16] you're going to do it anyway what about

[1:43:18] getting three months extra health in you

[1:43:20] you know or or go these nicotine things

[1:43:23] you know at least nicotine is actually

[1:43:25] now they we found out it's really good

[1:43:27] for you you know now again don't overdo

[1:43:29] it this is the thing that I said this

[1:43:31] morning

[1:43:32] >> in the morning I pop one in I do with my

[1:43:33] prayers and then normally when I walk

[1:43:35] the dog and today was the moment that I

[1:43:37] told my yes yesterday to me no before I

[1:43:40] go to church I'm not going to do it

[1:43:41] anymore. I just won and then you know

[1:43:44] fight everything temperance because

[1:43:46] otherwise becomes easy to pop these

[1:43:48] things in and then you start with like a

[1:43:50] 4 milligram. Oh no, you start with eight

[1:43:52] but you pop just more in. I go like

[1:43:56] why don't I go to a six and then you

[1:43:58] realize hey six not making any

[1:43:59] difference. Okay let's go to a four, you

[1:44:01] know. And every time you take a little

[1:44:03] bit less, you know, cut it right away

[1:44:05] out. Yeah, then you're going to probably

[1:44:07] feel it. But if you go little by little,

[1:44:09] everything down. This is how I worked

[1:44:11] out as well.

[1:44:12] >> You know, I did 15 rounds on the back of

[1:44:14] one minute,

[1:44:15] >> but my way, the hardest way you can get,

[1:44:18] right? Every punch is that to freaking

[1:44:20] go through the bag and every kick is as

[1:44:22] hard as you can.

[1:44:23] >> One minute gets you really tired. 15

[1:44:25] rounds of that. Once I complete 15

[1:44:28] rounds, the next week is going to be 1

[1:44:30] minute and 5 seconds and 55 seconds

[1:44:33] rest. Next week when I can do this

[1:44:35] again, 1 minute 10 seconds, 50 seconds

[1:44:37] rest. Every time I increase my time by 5

[1:44:40] seconds and I take 5 seconds away from

[1:44:41] my resting time and then just before the

[1:44:44] fight, I can do 15 rounds of one and a

[1:44:46] half minutes with 30 seconds break.

[1:44:49] Dude, you're going to be in such a crazy

[1:44:50] shape. Now, if I would have done that

[1:44:52] the first week in training or two weeks,

[1:44:54] I overtrained. There's no way the body

[1:44:56] can adjust to that. But if you gradually

[1:44:59] increase that time with seconds

[1:45:02] over 10 weeks, it becomes long, you

[1:45:05] know, and that suddenly you're there,

[1:45:06] you know, don't make it a race, make it

[1:45:08] a journey. I always say, you know,

[1:45:10] relax, you know.

[1:45:11] >> Yeah.

[1:45:12] >> So, and that's the same advice.

[1:45:13] >> That's

[1:45:14] >> But again, like I call those you you

[1:45:16] have to stop. You cannot gradually go

[1:45:18] down. That will always go wrong. I don't

[1:45:20] know one person who did it like that.

[1:45:22] It's impossible.

[1:45:25] I I promise there's going to be people

[1:45:27] listening that feel personally uh seen

[1:45:30] and they've got this thing, this vice

[1:45:32] that they feel like they're being called

[1:45:34] out on by you. And I hope so, you know,

[1:45:36] I hope that I hope that you're taking

[1:45:38] away. I think you everyone has this

[1:45:40] first thing to tackle, right? That first

[1:45:43] >> thing to overcome. And I think you're

[1:45:44] stirring it up for people listening. And

[1:45:47] >> um yeah, I think

[1:45:48] >> Yeah. I don't know. I have a friend like

[1:45:49] this and he called me and he was he was

[1:45:52] almost because he's a very good

[1:45:53] Christian also

[1:45:54] >> and he uh and there was this overweight

[1:45:56] guy on a you know in a wheelchair that

[1:45:58] is driving because he can't even walk

[1:46:00] anymore and he asked him hey sir could

[1:46:01] you please get me those and they were

[1:46:03] like candies like Snickers or something

[1:46:05] because he couldn't reach him and my

[1:46:06] buddy goes like you sure you want to do

[1:46:08] that because he's that big and he goes

[1:46:11] what why I said well look at yourself he

[1:46:13] said and then the guy get angry so he

[1:46:16] grabbed the sneakers and he says okay

[1:46:17] well then take it and he just walked

[1:46:19] away. And he calls me. He says, "Dude, I

[1:46:21] feel so bad. Why did I do that?" I go,

[1:46:24] "Dude, you did it out. I know you. You

[1:46:25] did it out of love." I said, "But think

[1:46:27] about this. This guy's going to go home

[1:46:29] and your words are going to stick with

[1:46:31] him." Who knows? Your words change this

[1:46:34] guy now because now he's going to go,

[1:46:38] "Okay, if I'm honest, he is right."

[1:46:41] Right? If he starts thinking like that,

[1:46:43] maybe he's going to flip his life

[1:46:44] around. And I know him. He not doesn't

[1:46:47] do it for He just says you you don't

[1:46:50] want to do it, you're going to die,

[1:46:51] dude. I mean, that's the reason, you

[1:46:54] see. So,

[1:46:55] yeah.

[1:46:56] >> Yeah.

[1:46:58] Yeah. Um Yes. There's so many takeaways

[1:47:01] for me as well. Like I I really like

[1:47:03] hearing your perspective and I I'm

[1:47:05] taking away a lot from this. Um, I'll

[1:47:08] provide a link uh to the the resources

[1:47:11] that you've mentioned and there'll be

[1:47:13] like detailed show notes as well uh with

[1:47:16] the different topics that you've

[1:47:17] covered. Um, yeah, I thank you so much

[1:47:21] for all of the work that you're doing

[1:47:22] and the honesty and the standards that

[1:47:23] you're keeping for people and leading

[1:47:26] with love even though um I think like

[1:47:29] it's a kind of a like a a love that

[1:47:31] comes from strength um rather than sort

[1:47:34] of like a overly compassionate way. And

[1:47:36] I think the world needs that right now.

[1:47:37] So Bass, I really appreciate your time

[1:47:40] and um yeah, thanks. Thanks for the

[1:47:42] conversation. It was really good.

[1:47:43] >> Appreciate it.

Jon Brooks
ArtistJon Brooks

Writer, meditation teacher and founder of The Stoic Handbook, Jon Brooks works in the gap between knowing how you want to live and actually living that way, testing Stoic ideas aga…

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Relaxed-fighterSelf-masteryStoicismAnger-vs-aggressionMma-history

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Frequently Asked Questions

Rutten describes hearing an angry voice urging him to rush to his corner and finish the fight, and a calmer voice telling him to slow down. He followed the calmer one, walking slowly back to his corner after a knockdown, and says it felt as if someone else had taken over. He calls that moment the turning point of his career.
Before his first fight in Japan he learned that his 33-pound-heavier opponent would face him in a 30-minute bout with no breaks. He wrote R on each fist as a reminder to relax, which in Dutch is rustig. He describes it as a deliberate cue to avoid burning out early.
In the conversation Rutten says anger is when you lose control of yourself and start loading up, which telegraphs your moves. He describes his own approach as a more controlled form of pressure that he could still modulate. He avoided looking at opponents' eyes so intimidation would not push him into anger.
The episode's chapter outline states that the relaxed fighter wins nine times out of ten, and Rutten's argument rests on control: an angry fighter telegraphs and tires quickly. A relaxed fighter keeps the ability to choose timing and distance, which lasts through a long fight.
Yes. Brooks refers to Epictetus's Enchiridion, and the conversation centers on self-command, separating what is within your power from what is not, and not being ruled by anger, fear, alcohol, or ego. The video description also says Rutten's long-running evening practice is something Seneca would recognise.
The video outline describes a childhood of chronic illness and bullying, including a nickname, 'the leper.' Rutten later reframes it with the line 'What I thought was a curse, I saw as a blessing,' and the conversation explores how that history shaped his self-control.
The video description says Rutten retired without losing any of his last 22 fights and was a three-time King of Pancrase and UFC heavyweight champion. The host also introduces him as having the highest striking accuracy record in MMA history; that is the host's claim as stated in the intro.

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