Transcript
[0:00] My guest today is not a philosopher by
[0:02] trade. In the 1990s, when MMA was barely
[0:05] legal and had barely any rules, a Dutch
[0:09] fighter called Basrutin became one of
[0:11] the most feared men in the sport. He
[0:13] fought in Japan in an organization that
[0:16] predates the UFC and became its champion
[0:18] three times and then he started fighting
[0:21] in America and became the heavyweight
[0:23] UFC world champion. He retired without
[0:26] losing any of his last 22 fights and has
[0:30] the highest record for striking accuracy
[0:33] in MMA history. He's in the Hall of Fame
[0:35] and you may have seen him in the movie
[0:36] The Smashing Machine, which is a film
[0:39] about his friend Marker where he plays
[0:40] himself. So why is Bass on a stoicism
[0:43] and philosophy podcast? Well, when you
[0:45] listen to Bass talk, fighting is
[0:48] actually the least interesting part
[0:49] about him. This is a man who started
[0:51] life chronically ill, bullied as a
[0:54] child, and then built himself into the
[0:56] most dangerous man in any room, and then
[0:58] spent the second half of his life
[1:00] learning the harder skill of not being
[1:02] ruled by any of it. Not by anger, by
[1:05] fear, by alcohol, painkillers, or ego.
[1:08] He told me that stoicism is a lot like
[1:09] the principles that he lives by. And
[1:11] today, we'll find out what that means.
[1:17] Welcome, Bass. Um, let's get straight
[1:19] into it. You are remembered as one of
[1:21] the most violent finishers of your era.
[1:24] And yet, whenever I listen to you on
[1:26] podcasts or hear you talk, you sound
[1:28] very interested in calmness and
[1:31] restraint and being a good man. When did
[1:34] fighting stop being about proving
[1:36] yourself and start becoming more about
[1:39] selfmastery?
[1:40] >> Um, that's actually a good question.
[1:43] Yeah, and because I know the answer. it.
[1:45] Um, in tie boxing when I was kickboxing
[1:48] in Holland, I was just a loose cannon.
[1:52] Like I for my nine wins were eight in
[1:54] the first round and one in the second
[1:55] round. Completely lost control. I wasn't
[1:58] like the person I would be in the gym
[2:01] because I was just too nervous. I want
[2:03] to get it over with. And thankfully I
[2:05] was very powerful. So I knocked a lot of
[2:06] people out. But if I would have fought a
[2:08] really good guy who know knew how to
[2:11] control the distance, that would have
[2:13] been bad for me because I would run out
[2:14] of gas for sure. You know, there was no
[2:16] way you can continue that kind of
[2:17] pressure that I was giving to people.
[2:20] Then the change for me came in Japan. Uh
[2:24] the first it was funny because there
[2:26] were no weigh-ins and I did I I I I was
[2:29] thinking well did we talk about weight
[2:31] and and then I was thinking well the
[2:33] Japanese are very you know uh honest.
[2:36] So, I guess it's going to be okay. And
[2:38] and then when we went to the fight, the
[2:40] this tall guy walks up to me and I
[2:42] thought it was promoter. And I asked
[2:44] him, I said, "Oh, you're the promoter?"
[2:46] He says, "No, I'm fighting you today." I
[2:48] said, "You're I'm fighting you." He
[2:49] said, "What's your weight?" And he was
[2:50] like 33 pounds heavier than I was. And
[2:52] he go, "Okay." And and then the promoter
[2:54] walked up. So I'm to the promoter. I go,
[2:56] "Hey, is he not too heavy?" And he goes,
[2:58] "No, no, no. Everybody fights everybody.
[2:59] There's no weight classes." I go, "Oh,
[3:01] great." So I acted like I was all okay
[3:03] with it, but of course inside I was
[3:05] like, "What the heck?" And then when he
[3:07] walked away, I remember I said, "Hey,
[3:08] oh, by the way, how many rounds are we
[3:10] finding?" And he goes, "What?" I go,
[3:12] "Great. How many minutes?" He goes,
[3:13] "30." And that was that was the moment
[3:16] for me. I go, "Okay, now I'm facing a 33
[3:19] pound heavier guy. I never fought guys
[3:20] more than five pounds in tie boxing or
[3:22] kicking boxing in a 30 minute match with
[3:25] no breaks,
[3:26] >> which I didn't know the rules of,
[3:28] >> you know. So I I was like all new. But
[3:31] somehow that
[3:34] got me very calm because I immediately
[3:36] realized I can't start really hard
[3:39] because the Japanese fighters are known
[3:41] to be very tough and if I can't put
[3:44] within a minute, minute and a half, I
[3:45] got 28 and a half minutes more to go.
[3:47] I'm going to run out of gas. So I put
[3:49] these big Rs on my hands with a marker
[3:52] statistic and pronounce that in Holland,
[3:54] but coincidentally it start it's relax.
[3:56] It starts also with an R. So it's the
[3:58] same thing. And that was it. That was
[4:00] that was the moment when I stepped into
[4:02] the ring. And I think also the audience
[4:04] in Japan, they're completely quiet. Like
[4:06] don't say a word.
[4:07] >> If I just speak like I'm speaking right
[4:09] now, the person in the 20th row can hear
[4:11] you. That's how it is. That's it.
[4:14] >> And I think all combined
[4:16] >> completely put me in the zone. I always
[4:18] talk about that first fight. I could not
[4:20] I was thinking what is going on? Like
[4:23] literally he kicks me. I remember open
[4:26] the kick with a right kick and I block
[4:28] to the body and I block her with my shin
[4:29] and I go like that's the first time I do
[4:31] that, you know, like in my mind it's
[4:32] like and it's so calm and I hear people
[4:34] speak on the front row. Two Australian
[4:36] people were talking uh about moving from
[4:39] Melbourne to to Sydney or the other way
[4:41] around. And I I talked to them talked to
[4:43] them afterwards. I say, "Is he going to
[4:44] make the move?" Are they going to what
[4:46] the heck were you listening? I said, "I
[4:47] have no idea what happened." And that
[4:49] was I was completely in control
[4:52] everything. And that's when I realized
[4:54] there were two voices in me. There was
[4:56] the bad voice, the the the aggressive
[4:58] one who wants to go no no no. And there
[5:00] was the other voice that really kept me
[5:02] calm. And what happened? I immediately
[5:04] gave him a high kick and then I make
[5:06] another turn. But the high kick and a
[5:08] cross is almost the same movement for
[5:10] for your opponent. So the high kick
[5:12] distracted him. Then I acted like I load
[5:14] up again and I made it into a cross. And
[5:16] since he was taller, palm strike on his
[5:17] jaw, he went down and he got an eight
[5:19] cut. Now, normally in that situation, I
[5:22] would have run to my corner because I
[5:25] was, you know, the the faster you're in
[5:27] your corner, that's when they start
[5:28] counting, right? So, if I go slow, you
[5:30] give them more time to recoup.
[5:32] >> So, but some that so the angry voice is
[5:35] telling me to go fast and the other one
[5:37] says, "No, no, no, slow down, slow down,
[5:38] slow down." And I go I literally
[5:40] thinking, "What is going on?" And I'm I
[5:43] so I took a beat. I looked at him
[5:45] because he was awake. I just stared at
[5:47] him for a moment and then I walked very
[5:49] slow to my corner like take all the time
[5:52] you need. I was somehow
[5:54] >> without knowing it was controlled by by
[5:57] the by this the relaxed guy
[6:00] >> pressure on him like hey take all the
[6:02] time you need you know if I run to the
[6:03] corner he thinks oh he's afraid he wants
[6:05] to get it over with.
[6:06] >> So all that you see me in the corner
[6:07] standing and people go oh my god look at
[6:09] him he's so cool. I go like you have no
[6:11] idea what went through my head at that
[6:12] moment. It was like somebody else took
[6:14] it over and that was it. And then I
[6:16] knocked him out and and and it's scary
[6:19] very scary because he was two days out
[6:21] >> you know uh but he later became a good
[6:24] friend of mine. Um actually fought in
[6:26] Holland lived with my mom and dad for
[6:28] for like 6 weeks preparing for a fight.
[6:30] So that was kind of cool and we brought
[6:32] stuff. So he he was okay but that was
[6:35] the moment for me that everything
[6:37] changed and suddenly became it was not
[6:39] aggression anymore. Everything was relax
[6:41] and now I knew I had to be completely
[6:44] calm. You know, I let myself one time go
[6:48] um well, two times. One time was the
[6:50] second fight where I already cried,
[6:53] already kicked my butt because two days
[6:55] before I go on the plane, I had been
[6:56] drinking.
[6:57] >> Freaking idiot. Not turning this. What?
[7:00] The other guy was the number four. This
[7:01] is like the number 10. This is like, you
[7:03] know, like idiot. And uh and then I got
[7:06] sick on top of that.
[7:07] >> And I never look at the opponent's eyes
[7:09] because I know that if they stare me and
[7:11] they try to intimidate me, I go over the
[7:13] top. I get angry. And I didn't want to
[7:15] get angry at all because anger you can't
[7:17] control yourself anymore. You start
[7:18] loading up, right? If I if I'm sitting
[7:21] in front of you and you go puff, this is
[7:22] what I do in a normal fight. If I'm
[7:24] angry, I'm going to go now. I'm
[7:25] telegraphing. So, you don't want to have
[7:27] that. But I remember him. He was staring
[7:29] at me, but I was just looking at his
[7:30] belly. [clears throat] And I saw his
[7:32] belly go from the nerves and I looked at
[7:34] mine. I go, "Ah, it's going to be good."
[7:36] You know, and then the whole audience
[7:38] started going, "Oo, because apparently
[7:40] he was giving me the deaths there." And
[7:42] I remember he he I think they debate for
[7:45] a moment. So I got in his face. I go and
[7:48] [clears throat] he's like freaking out
[7:50] and the referee is petting me down and
[7:52] he says, "No speed fight, Mr. Nos." I
[7:54] said, "No, I'm okay. I'm okay." But
[7:56] while I walked away, I say, "Okay, I got
[7:58] to stay calm." Now I was very sick.
[8:00] Couldn't carry my luggage anymore. He
[8:01] got me in an arm bar. Um I wanted to
[8:04] tap, but then thankfully my ego saved me
[8:06] at that time because the audience
[8:08] started chanting for him. and I go like
[8:11] I gotta get out. So I got out of the
[8:12] arbor and then 30 seconds later I knock
[8:14] him out with a need to deliver
[8:16] >> and that was the moment for me that
[8:18] everything [clears throat]
[8:19] it it needed to happen those two fights
[8:22] now I was completely under control and
[8:24] now I knew that it doesn't matter if
[8:25] it's the number 500 in the world I'm
[8:27] going to have to go maximum actually you
[8:29] have to train harder for a guy because
[8:31] you cannot lose against the guy who's
[8:33] like the top 500 you know because you
[8:35] want to be the top guy so that's when
[8:37] everything changed with me I never
[8:40] >> ran out of gas I ever would always I
[8:43] went insanely hard with everything and
[8:45] that was that was the move that was the
[8:47] change. Suddenly I was in that game and
[8:49] I start understanding all these little
[8:52] things how to distract and and having
[8:54] fun literally having fun while I'm
[8:56] fighting. It's the most like I have ADHD
[8:59] fighting and training [clears throat]
[9:00] against higher elite level guys.
[9:02] Sparring for instance not not training
[9:05] sparring is the most peace in my head
[9:08] >> because then I got only one focus.
[9:10] >> I'm I cannot allow all that noise coming
[9:12] in that I have now looking at my plate
[9:15] that I just ate. There's a lot of stuff
[9:16] that goes through my mind all the time.
[9:18] I need to control. Need to control. But
[9:20] that was it. And that changed my career.
[9:23] And bof, I was off to a good start. It
[9:25] was insane.
[9:28] I I I I don't train MMA, but I do train
[9:31] jiu-jitsu. And I I think of it as like
[9:34] forced mindfulness, like when you're
[9:36] sparring. And I know the stakes are a
[9:38] lot higher with your training, but you
[9:40] can't think about your bills and the the
[9:43] emails that you have coming your way.
[9:44] you're just fully in the present moment,
[9:46] which is I can see why that would be
[9:48] very peaceful for someone with ADHD. Um,
[9:52] how would you help someone tap into that
[9:56] mindset and that state where the kind of
[9:58] aggression fades away and it seemed like
[10:01] you tapped into a different part of
[10:02] yourself that was more
[10:03] >> Yeah, I'm I'm I'm just talking talking
[10:05] to my students. I wish I had a coach in
[10:08] the early days when I was so angry. He
[10:10] said, "Bos, you got time enough. You got
[10:12] three rounds to three minutes, you know,
[10:14] in kickboxing.
[10:15] >> Take your time. Don't need
[10:16] [clears throat] to attack. Feel him out.
[10:18] Let him. Like my students, if I see
[10:20] they're nervous, I will tell them. I
[10:22] say, "Okay, I don't want you to fight
[10:23] for a a minute, one minute. I will shout
[10:26] when the minute has passed. I want you
[10:27] just to avoid him constantly just by
[10:29] movement." And then we work on that, of
[10:31] course, before the fight, you know,
[10:33] because if you have great movement,
[10:34] always moving to the sides and there's
[10:35] no patterns and all that stuff, it's
[10:37] very hard for somebody to hit you
[10:39] because you have a big space, you know.
[10:41] So he's constantly moving. I said, and
[10:43] once you get him that now, you start
[10:45] seeing his movements and then you just
[10:47] start aiming and aiming and they go like
[10:49] aiming is normal. That's not if you see
[10:51] 80% of the fighters, they just hit the
[10:53] head,
[10:54] >> they just hit the body. Not me. I'm
[10:56] really focusing on the jaw, on the solar
[10:58] plexus, on, you know, but that that
[11:00] aiming and that focus puts you right
[11:03] away better into the game as well.
[11:04] You're more focused. And with my
[11:06] students, every single time it works. It
[11:09] simply works. But if you just let them
[11:11] go, they want to do the same thing that
[11:13] I did when I was young, you know, and
[11:15] just get it over with. And that's when
[11:16] you make mistakes. You're rolling the
[11:18] dice. Why would you roll the dice? If
[11:19] you got a 30-minute fight coming up,
[11:21] dude, my friends, it's so funny. They
[11:23] always when you look at my record, they
[11:24] say, "Dude, you had a lot of first round
[11:25] finishes." I go, "Oh, yeah, 30 minute
[11:27] fights, you know, it's not like in the
[11:30] three-minute round." So, of course, it's
[11:32] in the first round because it's a long
[11:33] ass round. So, yes, that's what I'm I'm
[11:36] talking to them. And now I'm I'm also I
[11:38] go very deep like if a guy can't perform
[11:41] in front of an audience I know right
[11:42] away you know. So when his family
[11:44] members are there at this and I tell
[11:45] them I said do not start telling
[11:47] everybody that you're going to fight. Do
[11:49] not start saying on video before the
[11:51] fight I'm going to rip him off. This
[11:53] guy's a nobody because now you're
[11:54] fighting a nobody. That's first of all
[11:56] stupid. But second of all now you better
[11:58] live up to it. And that video that you
[12:00] just said that you were going to do to
[12:01] him. They're going to play that at the
[12:03] moment you walk up to the ring.
[12:04] >> And that's going to put a lot of
[12:05] pressure.
[12:06] In fact, you know what we're going to
[12:08] do? You're not allowed, if they're very
[12:10] nervous, you are not allowed to talk
[12:11] about fighting at all. Zero to other
[12:15] people. Not saying that you're going to
[12:16] fight and we're going to fight out of
[12:17] state. We'll find a fight somewhere out
[12:20] of state. You don't tell anybody. If you
[12:22] win, you come home. You say, "Hey, I
[12:23] just want to fight. If you lost, you
[12:24] don't even have to tell anybody." That
[12:27] takes a lot of pressure out. And then
[12:29] again, another one I have, and this is
[12:31] also very interesting. I we we all want
[12:34] to perform for other people. That's our
[12:36] problem. If you just fight for yourself,
[12:39] >> you're going to be just fine. If you
[12:41] don't care about all the noise, what
[12:42] people say, because they all know it
[12:43] better than you, yet they never fought a
[12:45] day in their life. They never trained,
[12:47] you know. So, what I'm telling them, if
[12:48] they're nervous before, like a week
[12:50] before, I see them agitated. I go, "What
[12:52] about this? What if your opponent walks
[12:54] into the gym right now and and you guys
[12:56] going to fight? We put you in the room,
[12:58] that room, it has no windows. We're
[13:00] closing the door. You lock the door in
[13:02] the inside. You fight. And when you lose
[13:04] or win, doesn't matter. But you're not
[13:06] allowed to say if you won or lose. Would
[13:08] you care if you would lose? And they all
[13:10] say, "No, I wouldn't care." I go, "That
[13:12] means that you're fighting for the
[13:14] people." Don't fight for the people.
[13:16] Fight for yourself. If you literally can
[13:18] let everything go and put all that
[13:22] uh I want to be cool, want to be cool,
[13:24] you know, and my family members are
[13:25] there. If you can set that, really push
[13:27] it to the side, that's it. Then you
[13:29] fight like you fight in the gym. And if
[13:31] you fight in the gym, well, you're a
[13:32] good fighter. You're probably going to
[13:34] win this fight. And if you lose, well,
[13:36] that's a life lesson.
[13:37] >> That means, oh, you're gonna have to
[13:38] work harder on that. Like happened with
[13:40] me in my submissions, right? I lost by
[13:42] submission. Then I lost one time, more
[13:43] time by submission and last time by
[13:45] submission. And that's when the whole
[13:47] change came and that's when I said,
[13:49] "Okay, I got to know this game." So I
[13:52] found one guy because I had nobody to
[13:53] train with in Holland. There was no you
[13:55] was there was judo and you know once
[13:58] every two weeks I was in in in Amsterdam
[14:00] but sometimes I came in and other people
[14:02] didn't want to train. It was a nightmare
[14:04] but then I found that one guy and then
[14:06] suddenly I got the obsession. That's
[14:08] when I realized what submissions really
[14:10] was there. It it's endless and the
[14:13] combinations and the setups and and you
[14:16] never master it. There's no way because
[14:18] there's too much it's it's too cool. And
[14:21] once that grabbed me, I fell in love
[14:23] with it. And once I fell in love with
[14:25] it,
[14:25] >> well, I started doing it a lot, like
[14:27] three times a day. I forgot about my
[14:29] striking. I said I did only hats for for
[14:32] stamina. I wouldn't even spar anymore
[14:34] because they were not going to stand
[14:35] with me because I was not going to be
[14:36] blow out.
[14:37] >> They wanted to take me to the ground.
[14:38] And that was it. Never lost the fight
[14:40] after that. I I lost my last fight by
[14:42] submission. I won my last eight. The
[14:44] next eight fights, I won them by
[14:46] submission. Eight by seven finishes and
[14:48] one submission control. And people are
[14:50] going like, "What is going on?" I Well,
[14:52] I just worked on my weaknesses very very
[14:55] hard. And thankfully, I fell in love
[14:56] with it. So, I wanted to do it. And I
[14:58] think that's that's it with everything.
[14:59] If you love something, then you're going
[15:01] to succeed because it's the only thing
[15:04] you wanted to do. I love training. I
[15:06] loved everything about fighting at that
[15:07] time. And that just helped me a lot, I
[15:10] guess.
[15:10] >> A a quick question. Um you so when you
[15:13] told the story about when you were in
[15:14] Japan and you wrote a on your fists uh
[15:18] you said that after that you didn't gas
[15:21] again you didn't gas out there's this
[15:23] debate the goes on between you know
[15:27] fitness is about efficiency and
[15:29] relaxation versus fitness is about you
[15:31] know having a high V2 max or just being
[15:33] physically very fit. Where do you how do
[15:36] you understand the the difference? Like
[15:38] how much does efficiency and relaxation
[15:40] help with gassing or not gassing in
[15:42] fights versus do you just need to be
[15:44] ultra fit? Because I know you focus a
[15:46] lot on fitness as well. [clears throat]
[15:48] >> Every muscle you contract the whole
[15:49] time, you're burning energy like like a
[15:51] maniac, right? During the fight, if you
[15:53] breathe wrong, you're burning wrong
[15:54] energy. If you lift your shoulders every
[15:56] time when you breathe, you're carrying
[15:57] your body every time up. You have to
[15:58] breathe right formatically. All these
[16:00] things. So, uh, how do I'm going to say
[16:02] this? Um the the relaxed person will
[16:07] will beat an aggressive person nine out
[16:09] of 10 times. Always. He might get caught
[16:11] one time, but for the rest he always um
[16:14] uh is in control. Like the first time
[16:17] you rolled, how tired did you get in a
[16:19] minute, like a minute, right? You you're
[16:22] out of breath. You go like, "What the
[16:23] heck is this?" Because you don't know
[16:24] where you at the moment, where are the
[16:27] moments that you can take a break
[16:28] because they're constantly attacking
[16:30] you, you know? But once you start
[16:31] getting into it and you start feeling
[16:33] that if somebody's aggressive, I can
[16:35] simply move to the side. Boop. Takes
[16:37] place. Sometimes I just walk away. And
[16:38] then you see me shaking. I do just do
[16:40] this. I hop and I feel all my muscles go
[16:43] bloop. That's my my way of telling me,
[16:46] okay, I'm relaxed. And then I go back
[16:47] into the fight. You know, take that time
[16:50] and it's not looking scary when you walk
[16:52] away. That looks actually like you're
[16:53] completely in control. Okay, not right
[16:55] now. You know, he's you shaky off. Okay,
[16:57] let's go again. Now they're going to go,
[16:59] "What? What just happened? I just
[17:00] attacked them full. So once you can
[17:02] control those moments and you know that
[17:04] you can simply avoid them by moving out
[17:06] outside
[17:07] >> and taking an extra breath that all
[17:10] happens once you are completely relaxed
[17:12] in your mind and that's when your
[17:14] stamina really comes because normally I
[17:16] always tell my students say stamina
[17:17] stamina stamina for your first fight
[17:18] it's only endurance and stamina you know
[17:21] because
[17:22] >> if you have that [clears throat] you're
[17:23] going to win all your first fights
[17:24] because nobody realizes once the
[17:26] pressure hits and uh and and and all
[17:29] these endorphins and everything starts
[17:31] working that's going to tight you up.
[17:32] That that stamina that you have, that
[17:34] endurance is going to be cut in half.
[17:36] They come back the first round, they go.
[17:37] [laughter]
[17:38] I said, "Oh, [clears throat]
[17:39] I thought you told me you were in shape,
[17:41] you know." Yeah, but this is so crazy. I
[17:43] said, "That's what I told you. Get in
[17:44] freaking shape. It's the only way to
[17:46] win, you know." And if you do do that,
[17:48] being in shape combining with knowing at
[17:51] the moment when you can take a break or
[17:53] take a beat and take an extra breath,
[17:55] well, that's it. Then, yeah, you almost
[17:58] never run out of gas anymore.
[18:00] Yeah, love that. Yeah, I'm I'm starting
[18:03] to get similar kind of epiphies even
[18:04] though I'm like many years deep in in
[18:06] jiu-jitsu how important the those two
[18:09] things are. Um I want to go back in time
[18:12] a little bit. Uh when I was researching
[18:14] your childhood, uh it sounded like a
[18:18] completely different person, you know,
[18:19] like the person that you became champion
[18:23] uh just like devastating fighter, super
[18:25] charismatic, like everyone loves
[18:28] listening to you and you you you help a
[18:30] lot of people, but when you were a
[18:31] child, you were very ill, bullied, all
[18:34] right, and isolated from from my
[18:36] research. And is it true that you would
[18:40] sort of uh like run away from people
[18:42] that were being mean to you and climb
[18:44] trees
[18:45] >> and things like that?
[18:46] >> Yeah. Horrible skit. So I was the leper
[18:48] in school,
[18:49] >> you know. Everybody called me the leper.
[18:50] So and they were always picking on me.
[18:52] Oh, don't come too close. You know, he's
[18:53] going to give it to you. It's it's
[18:55] contagious. And so everybody was messing
[18:58] with me. And the way for me to deal with
[18:59] it was Spider-Man that he was my guy and
[19:02] Wolverine, but Spider-Man because he
[19:04] also got bullied, right? And I just
[19:06] started going into the trees. We had a
[19:08] forest in front of our home.
[19:10] >> And uh and I realized that I could once
[19:12] I climbed the tree, I could start
[19:14] swinging the tree and I go to the next
[19:16] tree.
[19:17] >> And then through the whole forest, I
[19:19] would have maybe seven times that I had
[19:21] to climb down because it would be too
[19:23] far the next tree. But for the there was
[19:25] a big forest.
[19:26] >> So I could like if bullies came now, I
[19:29] just climbed the tree. And then I let
[19:31] them climb the tree and when they were
[19:32] halfway down, I started swinging. Whoop!
[19:34] and go to the next tree. And then one
[19:36] time a big a big bully, he he tried it
[19:39] also and he he fell and he almost died
[19:42] because his head fell next to a big
[19:44] rock. I remember that he was out and I
[19:46] remember his parents were freaking out
[19:48] and because the kids ran home to get
[19:49] their parents but I thought and I from
[19:52] but from that moment on, of course,
[19:53] nobody ever followed me in the trees
[19:55] anymore because I just climbed tree. But
[19:57] I had this always this obsession with
[19:59] buildings and every high building, every
[20:01] church, every I always climbed it. I
[20:04] wanted to somehow I always think I'm
[20:06] afraid of heights and because that's why
[20:08] I want to overcome it. It was really
[20:10] weird, but it attracted me a lot to to
[20:14] that danger and do stupid stuff. If I
[20:16] think back now, you know, like with you,
[20:19] you know, I I'm here in my man cave and
[20:20] they just came to bring my belts and my
[20:22] trophies and everything that I have and
[20:23] and every time I walk in, I go, man, I
[20:26] I'm thinking exactly what you just said.
[20:27] It's so weird how life can go.
[20:29] Yesterday, I talked to a guy going from
[20:32] that kid that was so scared to suddenly
[20:34] everybody knows you and you got freaking
[20:36] paintings that they make of you and the
[20:38] belts are hanging here. You go like,
[20:40] how's this even happening? You know,
[20:42] it's it's all
[20:43] >> it's it's weird, but it's it's all mind.
[20:46] And I'm telling you, I think I got that
[20:48] from my childhood as an as as an
[20:51] asthmatic patient. I I had severe asp.
[21:00] But you got to go to the restroom. Well,
[21:02] it's one floor down.
[21:04] >> Good luck. You know, going down the
[21:05] stairs, that's already hard. You take
[21:07] three steps, sit down, resting, three
[21:10] steps, take down. Now you got to go back
[21:11] up. That's much harder. You see? So for
[21:14] me that was a that I but I had to do it.
[21:16] You had to have the discipline in order
[21:18] to do it, you know. And I think all
[21:20] these things actually helped me. All
[21:22] that bullying actually helped me. We had
[21:24] an a reunion and it was a show in
[21:27] Holland called the reuni. And that's the
[21:29] the reunion and it was very high watch
[21:32] show. There 3.3 3.2 million people
[21:35] watched that show and people got 3.2
[21:37] million. Yeah. We got at the time 15
[21:39] million people in all that's only five.
[21:41] So it was a and the bullies didn't show
[21:43] up because the all the class everybody
[21:45] was invited but the bullies didn't come
[21:48] and they go well I guess they're afraid.
[21:50] I go I wanted to thank them. I really
[21:53] wanted to say thank you. You gave me an
[21:55] unbelievable life. Look at me man. I'm
[21:57] I'm enjoying my life so much but this
[22:00] because of them. So what I thought was a
[22:02] curse I always saw that as a blessing.
[22:06] Now I see that as a blessing and I never
[22:08] was down. My eczema was on my hands and
[22:10] it was in my neck and and on my knees
[22:13] but I knew there were people out there
[22:14] who had that completely is the entire
[22:17] body. Well, compared to that
[22:18] >> it's not so bad. My asthma attack just a
[22:21] week. This guy's 365. They have to move
[22:23] to Switzerland or some high altitude
[22:26] place where the air is very clean
[22:28] because otherwise they can't live. Well,
[22:30] mine is not as bad as they have. You
[22:32] see, I always thought like that. I never
[22:33] thought, "Oh my god, I'm so sad though."
[22:35] I always thought about the people who
[22:36] had it worse than me and that always
[22:38] kept me up and I was always the class
[22:40] clown because nobody liked me. So I
[22:42] stopped making fun of the teachers so
[22:44] people started laughing you know that's
[22:45] how I got into it. That's where my humor
[22:48] comes from, you know. So everything
[22:49] happened for a reason, you know. Omnia
[22:51] calls a fute, right? It's what they say
[22:53] in Latin. Everything happens for a
[22:55] reason. And that's why I'm truly believe
[22:57] you because we were talking about
[22:58] stoicism, eatholicism, we these very
[23:00] things the same lines that that's it.
[23:04] Everything happens for a reason. I was
[23:06] given those diseases for a reason to see
[23:08] what I was going to do with it. Well,
[23:10] you can do something bad with it. You
[23:11] can be crying and you can be sit down or
[23:13] you say, "Hey, let's try to overcome
[23:15] this thing and see what I can do." And
[23:17] thankfully, I took the second one.
[23:21] >> It's a it's a great story for parents as
[23:24] well because as a I have kids, we we
[23:26] would tend to think that, you know, if
[23:27] our children are being bullied or they
[23:30] have illnesses or they're isolated, like
[23:33] everything's ruined. But your your story
[23:36] says like no like maybe this is the
[23:38] thing that can actually help them grow
[23:40] and they can maybe you know become you'd
[23:43] never think that like oh my child that's
[23:44] getting bullied and ill will be UFC
[23:47] champion like it just doesn't make sense
[23:49] but
[23:50] >> yeah my mother does and I'm I'm
[23:53] >> and now my mom was so proud like because
[23:55] I always thought my parents were kind of
[23:57] against it but they passed away and we
[23:59] went to the house I found a box with all
[24:01] the newspaper clippings everything from
[24:04] you know and and and my my family were
[24:06] telling me that man she was so proud of
[24:08] you everywhere she would come people
[24:10] because if she would say root and say oh
[24:11] do you know bos yeah yes my son that's
[24:13] your son and then everybody you know so
[24:15] and my dad also but in the beginning you
[24:18] know fighting you're not going to make
[24:19] money and fighting you know so for me to
[24:22] make that choice and of course I was a
[24:24] very hard kid I was ADD I was ADHD all
[24:28] over the place I needed to get attention
[24:30] burglaries I did a lot of burglaries as
[24:32] as a 15 16 year year old like I we got
[24:34] caught for 142 of them two times. One
[24:36] time 90 and the other you know but I
[24:39] mean
[24:40] >> I was doing things that they of course
[24:42] did not me want me to do. My brother was
[24:44] the perfect guy, you know, just one of
[24:46] the best lawyers in Europe right now.
[24:48] Has two lawyers offices, Amsterdam and
[24:50] Rotterdam. H everything he does is
[24:52] cumloud. Everything he does like he he
[24:55] did conservatorium in three different
[24:57] majors. Not one, three. All the top
[25:01] class every single time, everything he
[25:02] did and a freak athlete as well. He just
[25:05] chose a different path to go, you know.
[25:07] So he was of course the the guy that
[25:10] hope you could be proud of him. me I was
[25:12] only getting in trouble please at the
[25:14] door again this been in a fight again
[25:16] because there was a lot of hating me
[25:18] after I knocked the first bully out you
[25:20] know once I learned fighting oh now
[25:23] every kid that got bullied guess who
[25:24] took care of that problem you know I
[25:26] start going after everybody I had a
[25:28] short list like four guys
[25:30] >> that I still had and I remember one guy
[25:32] was like ly I'm so sorry boss I don't
[25:34] even remember what I said I but I do and
[25:36] then poof I will knock him out you know
[25:38] there was that anger in me and and
[25:40] thankfully I on fighting and then it
[25:43] became the controlled anger like Bruce
[25:44] Lee would say, right? Fighting is all
[25:46] about controlled anger. Let it go at the
[25:48] moment you need to go. Boop, relaxation
[25:50] again.
[25:51] >> And thank that clicked for me.
[25:55] >> Uh so this this topic, right? So there's
[25:58] this the story of you sneaking into
[26:00] Enter the Dragon when you're 12 and then
[26:03] you broke a bully's nose with one punch,
[26:06] right? And like
[26:08] >> a lot of people just think of that
[26:10] story, but the what you're describing
[26:12] here is that maybe you could talk more
[26:14] about you made a list, right? And you
[26:17] kind of I think a lot of people who have
[26:18] been abused or oppressed, they kind of
[26:21] go into that role themselves, you know,
[26:24] maybe not permanently, but just to kind
[26:26] of like as a as a reaction to it, right?
[26:27] Like if you've suffered a lot, you tend
[26:29] to make other people suffer. So, could
[26:32] you talk a little bit about that switch
[26:34] from being bullied to maybe being the
[26:36] bully short term?
[26:38] >> Yeah, I I I never understood those
[26:39] people because I I I didn't like it. So,
[26:42] why would I do that on somebody else?
[26:44] >> Like, I'm the guy I literally had to
[26:46] learn to say no to people.
[26:48] >> I was the guy who just I want to help
[26:50] everybody and especially if you're in
[26:51] trouble. Got it. Emails, hundreds of
[26:54] emails from parents that I answered. It
[26:57] was like after the fourth email I just
[26:58] made a big file so I could copy and
[27:00] paste because I got contacted oh my my
[27:02] boy has also eczema and as as much it's
[27:05] a combination that's comes a lot and
[27:08] he's also being bullied what do I do
[27:09] what do I and everything that I used to
[27:11] eat and and the my whole house there
[27:13] were no curtains in our home there were
[27:15] like plastic curtains and the floors
[27:17] there was no carpets everything needed
[27:19] to be if I spent 20 minutes with a dog I
[27:23] would be the next day a week in bed
[27:25] complete asthma my attack severe, you
[27:28] know, any animal with fur,
[27:30] >> you see. So, I never understood kids how
[27:33] they did that. I just wanted to help
[27:35] other kids who got bullied and take care
[27:37] of their problems for them, you know.
[27:38] And then, of course, I wanted them teach
[27:41] them how to fight so they could do it
[27:42] themselves as well, you know. So, yeah,
[27:45] thankfully my my parents are very
[27:48] very my childhood has been insane. Like
[27:50] my parents, I've never seen them ever
[27:53] fight, you know, there's pushing like my
[27:56] other friends are fighting that never
[27:58] like not even words the the raised their
[28:01] voice. Okay, now I want you to stop.
[28:03] That what maybe my dad would say that
[28:05] was it,
[28:06] >> you know, but never any problems in the
[28:09] house. So I think that always kept me
[28:11] also very calm knowing that it's there's
[28:14] no need for it. But if there is need for
[28:16] it and and and talking about bullies,
[28:19] there was one moment um in the in the
[28:23] play on the playground in my in my
[28:25] school and my house was literally 200
[28:26] yards away from the school, maybe 300
[28:28] yards, very close. And we had trees in
[28:31] the playground and I think I saw a Darth
[28:33] movie or thinking I was maybe
[28:35] Spider-Man. I don't know what it And
[28:36] these bullies kept on going and I get
[28:38] angry and I see a branch and I'm
[28:40] thinking, "Okay, I'm going to grab that
[28:41] branch, swing to him and double front
[28:44] kick on the chest." So I jumped the
[28:46] branch. I sw the branch broke and I'm
[28:49] falling on the ground.
[28:50] >> I'm laying on the ground and everybody's
[28:52] pointing at me and laughing. And I ran
[28:55] home. Yeah, run home leer. Run home.
[28:57] It's the last thing I heard. And I go to
[28:59] the kitchen, grab the biggest kitchen
[29:01] knife, and I run back. And that's
[29:04] thankfully because till this day I have
[29:06] no idea what I would have done but I was
[29:08] I was lost. I lost it and my mother saw
[29:12] me running on the street from the with
[29:14] the knife. So she started to chase me
[29:16] and she was able to catch catch me
[29:19] before I got back onto the playard. So
[29:21] when you hear that from the other kids,
[29:23] you know shootings or whatever they do
[29:25] or the so horrible things. Yes, of
[29:28] course I can know it's not good. It's
[29:29] the worst thing. But I can understand
[29:30] it. I can completely understand it
[29:33] because it's the years and years and
[29:35] everybody's doing and now especially
[29:37] with social media. You get a victim and
[29:39] everybody starts attacking you. You you
[29:41] you put somebody Yeah. You you separate
[29:45] them from everybody and now that person
[29:47] is lost and everybody wants a voice,
[29:49] right? Everybody wants to be heard and
[29:51] that starts building, you know, and then
[29:53] sometimes horrible things are going to
[29:55] happen.
[29:56] >> Yeah. Yeah. As I've got older, I've
[29:58] realized the line between victim and
[30:00] perpetrator is not as clear-cut as as
[30:02] people want you to believe. You know,
[30:04] cuz if you had done anything with that
[30:05] knife, people would have thought, you
[30:06] know, this is the bad guy.
[30:08] >> But it's not so simple, right? Like, you
[30:11] know, you psychological suffering is is
[30:14] a very serious thing. You just can't see
[30:16] it on someone. It's not like a wound on
[30:18] the outside.
[30:19] >> But and it's also like when I was a
[30:20] bouncer, they grabbed me because I was a
[30:22] good fighter. But not only that, the
[30:24] main reason was I would settle it.
[30:27] >> If there's 10 situations, normally they
[30:28] would fight 10 times. With me, you fight
[30:30] maybe one time
[30:31] >> because I take him to the side and I
[30:33] just explain, okay, let's go. What
[30:35] happened? Oh, he looked at my he looked
[30:37] at my wife. Did he say something to her?
[30:39] No. Did he touch her? No. I go,
[30:41] >> you should be happy. That means your
[30:43] wife is hot and that's why he looked at
[30:45] her. If he now, if he overstepped, I can
[30:47] understand you. And then they're
[30:48] standing there. They go like, yeah,
[30:50] there he's right. They go, right? Okay.
[30:52] What do you drink? What do you drink?
[30:53] Okay, I order a beer, whatever they
[30:55] ordered and I say, "Hey, let's be
[30:56] friends now." You see, that was my
[30:58] thing. I always diffuse the situ in my
[31:01] street fights. They go, "Oh my god, the
[31:02] crazy guy in the street fights that I
[31:04] had, you know, but you don't know this."
[31:06] I'm constantly diffusing. I'm constantly
[31:08] telling them I don't want to. And every
[31:10] time they keep going a little bit angry,
[31:12] you get more and you try to stop it. And
[31:15] then they think you're afraid.
[31:17] >> And that's when I realize they go,
[31:18] "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You you think
[31:20] I'm afraid?" I go, "Yeah, I'm afraid for
[31:22] what I'm going to do to you." And then
[31:24] most of the time they that's why they
[31:25] hook off. But then there's always these
[31:27] people who think you're faking it. And
[31:30] then when I beat those people up, well,
[31:31] that's after seven times saying no, no,
[31:34] no, no. Anger, anger, anger, anger,
[31:36] anger, poof. And then I go all the way.
[31:38] And now I'm certainly I'm the aggressor.
[31:40] And I go, [laughter] if they would have
[31:42] seen the whole story, they would have
[31:43] said, "Dude, he tried to diffuse the
[31:45] situation like six, seven times." You
[31:48] see? But so I never had that violence
[31:50] towards other people. Even if they got
[31:51] me in the face, is the guy's really
[31:52] drunk, slap me in the face, I don't even
[31:54] going to knock them out. If it's a
[31:56] punch, like a hard punch, then yeah,
[31:58] you're going to get knocked out as well.
[32:00] But otherwise, I go, the guy's drunk,
[32:02] you know? I mean, we all make mistakes
[32:04] when we're drunk or on the drugs or
[32:05] whatever it is. Why would I want to hit
[32:07] him? Why would I let him wake up next
[32:09] day with his face bashed and probably
[32:11] doesn't even know what he did, you know,
[32:13] because he was drunk. So let it go.
[32:16] Thankfully, I always had that that I
[32:18] never immediately start going in there.
[32:21] >> I I I think um one of the things I've
[32:24] been contemplating as a man, like we're
[32:26] not really taught like obviously there's
[32:29] like things you can do to learn how to
[32:30] fight better, but we're not really
[32:31] taught the like in between stages very
[32:34] well. Like what do you do if someone
[32:35] insults you? What do you do if someone
[32:38] kind of gets in your face? Right?
[32:40] There's like there's a lot of levels to
[32:41] this and it's, you know, and just
[32:43] punching someone and knocking them out
[32:44] isn't always the answer.
[32:46] >> Um, do you like do you have like a model
[32:49] for this? Say you're walking down the
[32:50] street and someone just shouts something
[32:52] rude at you. Are you is your first thing
[32:54] to ignore or do you like use your voice?
[32:57] What's the model that you use?
[32:59] >> Okay. So, if I see him doing that to
[33:00] everybody, you know, then probably I
[33:03] think it's a crazy guy. If I know it's
[33:04] an aggressive guy and I see him already
[33:06] pushing people, I will I will simply
[33:08] laugh.
[33:09] Because if you laugh at a person who's
[33:11] aggressive, they get more aggressive.
[33:14] And the reason I used to do that,
[33:15] because I don't do that anymore, because
[33:17] it's kind of an [ __ ] thing for me to
[33:19] do if I think about it. Because if you
[33:21] laugh, if somebody flips you off and I
[33:23] go,
[33:25] they get so angry because now their
[33:28] anger, it doesn't have the effect that
[33:30] they thought it was going to have. So
[33:32] now I start laughing. That means most of
[33:35] the time they take a swing. But if I saw
[33:37] already that he was a really bad guy
[33:39] before, then I do that on purpose, of
[33:41] course. I I just laugh at them. I'm not
[33:43] saying anything back. So nobody gets,
[33:45] "Oh, he just laughed, you know, but I
[33:47] know that's going to trigger them and
[33:48] attack me." And now I have a reason to
[33:51] knock him out. Thankfully, I figured out
[33:53] that's also not good to do. So
[33:54] [laughter] after a while, so I just
[33:56] simply stopped doing it.
[33:58] >> Yeah. Last time in the car, we had
[34:00] something that was It was really sad. My
[34:02] wife even said it. this guy gets I don't
[34:05] know what's going on. I I and I always
[34:07] drive cruise control so it's not I I I
[34:10] take the same distance. I have my car.
[34:11] They all do it automatically now. You
[34:13] don't have to do anything. And this
[34:14] guy's coming to the left and right. And
[34:16] then suddenly he stops next to me. His
[34:17] windows are painted
[34:19] >> and and and he doesn't open his window.
[34:21] So I'm looking to wait till open the
[34:23] window. Now what
[34:26] what he was do at the moment he opens
[34:28] his window, he was sitting in the car
[34:29] like this, like sideways in the car. He
[34:32] was this big guy with a beard and he was
[34:34] looking at me like like you want a piece
[34:36] of that. Now what I what happened to me
[34:39] is like why doesn't he open the window?
[34:41] Why is he not opening the door? And then
[34:42] when the window opened I I saw in a
[34:45] second why he didn't do that. He had to
[34:48] position himself in such a way to look
[34:50] the coolest, you know. So then I look at
[34:53] him and he sits there and I go
[34:55] [laughter]
[34:56] and and he freaking speeds off and my
[35:00] wife go, "Oh, that was kind of sad." I
[35:02] go, "Yeah, right. That was kind of sad."
[35:04] >> But you see, again, I laughed at him
[35:06] because I thought,
[35:07] >> man, who does that? Sits sideways in the
[35:10] car, you know, position himself and then
[35:12] opens the window. So I saw I thought it
[35:15] was funny. I didn't laugh to get him
[35:16] angry.
[35:17] >> Yeah. Yeah, but I just saw that the
[35:19] preparation he did before he lowered the
[35:22] window and yeah, he was off right away.
[35:24] Maybe he recognized me, I don't know,
[35:26] but it was um Yeah, it was a funny
[35:29] moment, but then afterwards you think it
[35:30] was kind of sad for the guy.
[35:33] >> Yeah. Yeah, it's uh you know the Stoics
[35:37] um we'll be getting into some like stoic
[35:40] and um Catholic ideas later, but I know
[35:43] you're interested in the the overlap
[35:45] there. But the Stoics uh believe that
[35:48] anger is a separate kind of bad emotion
[35:51] because like the minute you start losing
[35:53] it, you can't get back in control. Like
[35:55] if you get heavily triggered, you're
[35:57] you're you're gone. It's going to
[35:58] snowball. Um, I think people virtue
[36:02] again stowage uses your virtues as well.
[36:05] >> Yeah.
[36:06] >> Yeah.
[36:08] Um, we've talked about this a little bit
[36:10] when we first started talking, but um,
[36:12] one of the things I I believe that you
[36:15] think a lot about is when you have two
[36:17] athletes, they both train really well in
[36:20] the dojo, but then when it comes time to
[36:23] competing or fighting in a cage, one of
[36:25] them might fall apart and the other one
[36:27] doesn't. So, what would you say is the
[36:31] difference between these two people?
[36:32] Like, if you took two clones, what would
[36:34] break someone between the gym versus
[36:37] walking out into a into the cage?
[36:40] >> I think uh what I believe personally is
[36:43] like a lot of fighters, they don't
[36:44] really want to fight, but they think
[36:46] it's cool. Uh because then they can say,
[36:48] "I'm a cage fighter." I go, "You're not
[36:50] a cage fight. You're a mixed martial
[36:51] artist." Don't say that word, cage. It's
[36:52] just a stupid thing to say. Say you're a
[36:54] mixed martial artist. I heard a pro say
[36:56] that one time. This lady asked, "What do
[36:58] you do? I'm a cage fighter." I go, "Oh
[36:59] my god, he just lost some points with
[37:01] me." I go, "Why would you say that?" You
[37:02] know, just say mixed martial arts, you
[37:04] know. Oh, I'm in the UFC. I'm doing No,
[37:06] no, no, no. Stay away from it. So, so
[37:09] guys like that most of the time they're
[37:11] not going to make it. They're too
[37:12] nervous. They put too much pressure on
[37:14] themselves. They probably are the guys
[37:16] who come in and they go, "Yeah, every
[37:17] every friend of mine tells me because
[37:18] I'm good street fighter that I can uh,
[37:20] you know, I can become a good fighter."
[37:22] Most of the time those guys come in,
[37:23] they do one sparring session with an uh
[37:25] with a 17 year old, but I know that's a
[37:28] good 17 year old and then they realize,
[37:30] oh, they're not that good. The ones who
[37:32] come back
[37:33] >> after that training, which is 10% maybe
[37:37] they they have a chance.
[37:39] >> Yeah.
[37:39] >> Because they Okay, I want to know that.
[37:41] That was with me once they I got I got
[37:43] slaughtered with my submissions. The
[37:45] first time I was training in Amsterdam,
[37:46] I had to stop my car on the way back
[37:49] because I was so crushed like
[37:51] physically, not mentally. Wow.
[37:53] >> And I came home, I told my wife, I said
[37:55] it was just when the cell phones came
[37:56] out. I said, "Hey, I'm sleeping in the
[37:58] car for a couple hours and I come back
[38:00] home because it was from Amsterdam 2 and
[38:02] a half hour drive from me where I used
[38:03] to live." And then I came home, she she
[38:05] started laughing. She says, "Oh, that's
[38:06] it." I said, "Oh, no. Within 6 months,
[38:08] I'm going to tap everybody. Watch." And
[38:11] I did. Within 6 months, I start tapping
[38:13] everybody. you know, and I nobody could
[38:15] touch me anymore, you see. So, it's just
[38:17] uh it's it's the mindset that you have.
[38:20] Now, if you have the mindset of running
[38:21] away from it, you're never going to make
[38:22] it. That's first of all, and a guy like
[38:24] that might still have it a little bit
[38:26] because he wants to perform for his
[38:28] friends and his family members. And
[38:30] that's again what we talked about in the
[38:32] beginning. You put too much pressure on
[38:33] yourself. Your skill is not going to
[38:35] come out if you're emotional. That's
[38:36] why, okay, you see, constancy, right?
[38:39] That's another virtue that you have
[38:41] being steadfast, motionless, no matter
[38:43] what circumstance. You're complete under
[38:45] control. You know, that's that's what
[38:47] they need. But people automatically
[38:50] assume fighting with anger and it's
[38:52] absolutely not the the I always bet on
[38:55] the relaxed guy always because he just
[38:58] triggers everything trigger. If you're
[39:00] standing constantly like this, you're
[39:01] you're constantly affected your energy.
[39:03] But if you're relaxed, you poof and
[39:05] there's a shot. You know, calm
[39:07] controlled aggression. Here we go again.
[39:09] So, and then you have the
[39:10] parasympathetic and the sympathetic
[39:12] nervous system, right? And most of us
[39:14] were very sympathetic. So, high energy
[39:17] and and you need to how to control that.
[39:20] And once you can control that, you know,
[39:22] do it in bursts. Yeah. That's that's
[39:25] when you're going to go up. That's when
[39:28] you start being like you are in the gym.
[39:29] And that's it. That's the trick. That's
[39:30] the whole trick of fighting. It's like
[39:32] uh speaking. I do a lot of speaking
[39:34] right now and if memorizing 45 minute
[39:37] talks you know you think that first two
[39:40] three times was not easy it's not just
[39:43] standing there you're nervous as heck
[39:45] right I crack a joke I always start with
[39:47] something a joke people start laughing
[39:48] breaking the ice a little bit but you
[39:50] know you do this 10 15 times it's normal
[39:53] again it's like fighting
[39:55] >> yeah once you get used to all the
[39:56] commotion around it you know it becomes
[39:58] normal you know and then you say okay I
[40:01] feel it so yeah that that's the
[40:03] difference. I think if you fight for
[40:04] others and you really don't want to
[40:06] fight, you're fighting because it's a
[40:08] cool profession, I think you're not
[40:10] going to go far. There's a few
[40:12] exceptions always, of course, to every
[40:14] rule, but uh but the guy who just loves
[40:17] fighting is a very hard guy to beat.
[40:20] Totally. Yeah. I I I I think I you can
[40:22] see that a little bit where people like
[40:24] only do fighting so they can post on
[40:26] their social media that they fight so
[40:29] they can get a bit of like validation
[40:31] from certain people rather than a true
[40:33] love of the sport.
[40:35] Um so a lot of my audience are
[40:39] practitioners in stoicism and they love
[40:40] philosophy and there's different
[40:42] practices like premeditation of
[40:43] adversity, examining an impression
[40:46] before you ascent to it. Uh I saw that
[40:50] you had a ritual in the locker room
[40:53] before a fight where you would ask what
[40:55] is the worst thing that can happen to me
[40:57] and one of the answers you would land on
[40:59] was there's a referee right so like you
[41:02] were able to take the catastrophizing
[41:05] and bring it back to reality that's very
[41:07] similar to what Epictitus and the Stoics
[41:09] taught.
[41:10] >> Would you be able to walk me through how
[41:12] you figured this process out?
[41:13] >> Yeah, I always do that. What's the worst
[41:15] thing that can happen? I get knocked
[41:16] out. Is it really bad? There's a
[41:19] referee. He's not going to hit me 10
[41:20] extra times. Like for instance, when
[41:22] when uh Ken Shermog, he was fighting on
[41:25] the first show when I fought in Japan.
[41:26] It was two months before the UFC started
[41:28] September 93. And he was talking about
[41:31] the UFC. He was going to compete in the
[41:32] UFC. There's no referee. Can't do
[41:34] anything, you know, and and you can do
[41:36] anything you want. Man, you should do
[41:38] that. He said to me, I go, "Nah, I'm not
[41:40] going to do that." [clears throat] Why
[41:41] not? I said, "No referee." I said, "What
[41:42] if you get knocked out and the guy hits
[41:44] you six, seven more times in the face?
[41:46] that's you're asking for brain brain
[41:48] damage. That's not a smart thing to do.
[41:49] If there's a referee, sign me up. I
[41:52] would love to try that, you know. And
[41:54] thankfully that was happened after
[41:56] Tank Abbott uh because I heard this from
[41:59] Big Joe McCarthy, who was the UFC
[42:01] matchmaker, the the referee at the time.
[42:04] He said Tank Abbott was getting mauled
[42:06] by somebody, maybe Don Fry, I believe,
[42:09] and he was was really getting hurt, but
[42:12] he was not he was not allowed to step
[42:14] in. the corner had to throw in the towel
[42:16] and he looked at the corner like throw
[42:18] in the towel and they turned his back
[42:19] against him. And then he said later
[42:22] after the fight because Tank got hurt.
[42:26] He said, "Why did you guys didn't you
[42:28] guys throw in the towel?" Well, because
[42:29] Tank told us that if he would do that,
[42:32] he will beat the crap out of us. And
[42:34] that's when Joe McCarthy thankfully put
[42:36] his foot down and he said to the the
[42:38] owner, he said, "Listen, if I can't step
[42:40] in, I'm out. Somebody's going to die.
[42:42] This is not this is not a good thing."
[42:43] And they said, "Okay, you can step in."
[42:45] And that was the moment I said, "Okay,
[42:47] now I would love to do it." You see, but
[42:49] I'm not crazy. I'm enjoying my life. I
[42:51] don't These guys would say, "I'm going
[42:53] to die in the ring or in the cage." I
[42:54] go, "Not me, dude. If there's a problem,
[42:57] I'll tap, you know, I'm not going to
[42:59] freaking die in a I got a family. I join
[43:01] life." No.
[43:03] >> So, but they think, I guess it's cool to
[43:05] say, "Who wants that?" You know, and
[43:07] those guys probably never going to make
[43:08] it
[43:09] >> because they're they're doing it for the
[43:11] wrong reasons. They're not doing it
[43:13] because they love it. I think the love
[43:15] for something is everything.
[43:20] >> Yeah. I So, one of the things that you
[43:22] bring up there is when I see athletes,
[43:25] combat athletes, whether it's boxing or
[43:27] MMA, um I think that the higher you go,
[43:30] intelligence, like just raw IQ power,
[43:34] processing speed becomes more important.
[43:36] >> So, the champions are actually very
[43:38] clever people. And there's this tension
[43:40] that exists between like the the
[43:42] knowledge of risk versus reward, right?
[43:45] Because you you you're you're aware that
[43:46] you could get hurt,
[43:48] >> but because you you could get hurt,
[43:49] you're there because you're clever
[43:51] enough to be able to beat your opponent.
[43:53] And there's like a strange tension
[43:54] there.
[43:54] >> It is. It listen, there was a moment
[43:57] with me, this is very funny, there
[43:58] wasn't a world title fight against Kevin
[44:00] Randleman.
[44:02] Um this was literally like like it was a
[44:05] setup almost. So a day before the fight,
[44:08] somebody tells me about the nose bone
[44:10] into the brain, but they could jam it
[44:12] into the brain. And I said, "Dude,
[44:15] that's a myth. That's not true." And
[44:16] another person said, "Yeah, no, that's
[44:18] not true. But if your nose is already
[44:19] broken, then it maybe might happen."
[44:23] Whatever. That was the story. Now the
[44:25] next day, I'm fighting.
[44:26] >> Yeah.
[44:26] >> And Kevin is doing a freaking
[44:28] unbelievable job of me. He beats the
[44:30] crap out of me the first three minutes.
[44:32] I mean, my nose is flat on my face. I
[44:33] lost the contact. The other one is full
[44:35] with blood. I mean, I I don't look good
[44:37] after that fight. So, they the referee
[44:40] stops it to see if I can continue. And
[44:43] they the referee goes like, "Well, she
[44:46] knows broke. You want to continue?" And
[44:48] I look at Big Joe McCarthy and I go, "Do
[44:50] you believe that crap about the nose
[44:52] bone in the brain? This is literally
[44:53] during the fight." And he goes, "Nah." I
[44:55] go, "Okay, screw it. I'll fight." You
[44:57] know? So, but I was I was did check. If
[44:59] he would have said, "Yeah, that could
[45:01] happen." I think I would have stopped.
[45:02] Well, I'm pretty sure I would have stuck
[45:04] again because I don't want to die. I'm
[45:05] not going to risk my life for a sport,
[45:08] you see. But I did ask him
[45:10] >> at that moment, hey, do you believe it?
[45:13] Is that a true thing? And he says, nah.
[45:14] I go, okay, then uh let's do it. Let's
[45:16] keep going. And thankfully, I did. But
[45:18] then I won the title. So, it was a good
[45:20] thing.
[45:22] >> It's a great story. Yeah. Because you
[45:24] see some some fighters, they almost try
[45:26] to like brag about how they're willing
[45:27] to die in there, but yeah, it's just
[45:30] Yeah. Why? Why are we talking about
[45:31] [laughter] that? That doesn't make
[45:33] sense.
[45:34] >> Uh so Saka um the Stoic Sakica had this
[45:38] idea that anger is like a temporary
[45:40] madness and it's not useful even in
[45:42] something like war or combat.
[45:44] >> You've talked about uh when you get
[45:47] angry, you tend to load up or telegraph
[45:50] your strikes.
[45:51] >> What would you say is the difference
[45:52] between aggression and anger? Like do
[45:56] you see them as different things or the
[45:57] same?
[45:57] >> Well, a lot of people would see the
[45:58] same. I say um anger I think anger
[46:01] consumes you in your mind I think you it
[46:03] you hold that longer aggression is like
[46:06] a momentarily thing thing you know
[46:09] there's an aggression so but if you have
[46:11] anger like you see in the streets and
[46:12] the people with the signs and you know
[46:14] you see this America it's going crazy
[46:15] like the people getting more and more
[46:17] angry not realizing that they're feeling
[46:19] dopamine the whole time right because
[46:20] from anger you get dopamine and then in
[46:22] order like any other vice to get that
[46:24] same dopamine feeling you had yesterday
[46:27] where you going to have to be more angry
[46:28] now because otherwise you're not going
[46:29] to get that feeling. So it's getting out
[46:31] of control and I think um with
[46:35] aggression aggression is a moment that
[46:37] you need it like there like also in
[46:40] Catholicism they say that you should
[46:42] never be the moment maybe you're
[46:44] justified to be angry is only when your
[46:48] family or loved one or yourself gets
[46:50] attacked with fear of your life. That is
[46:53] a moment that you're allowed to be angry
[46:54] and can let go. for the rest there's
[46:57] nothing that you should because then you
[46:59] need it you need the anger in order to
[47:01] to get the job done because otherwise
[47:03] maybe your family something's going to
[47:04] happen to your family so uh yeah I think
[47:06] that is the difference [clears throat] I
[47:07] think that uh just the madness what he's
[47:10] talking about yes it stays in there they
[47:11] carry it home it doesn't go away they
[47:13] keep feeding it the whole time and I
[47:15] always talk about this the two voices I
[47:18] had right the good voice and the bad
[47:19] voice well which one grows the fastest
[47:22] the one you feed the most right so if
[47:24] you feed that bad voice the whole I'm at
[47:26] the anger, it'll keep growing. It keep
[47:28] growing. You got to stop. You got to
[47:29] step it back. And my way of think of
[47:32] saying is always to people like why
[47:34] don't you remove yourself from the
[47:36] situation? As soon as something really
[47:38] bad happens, mind you, you remove
[47:40] yourself. You put your best friend in
[47:42] that situation.
[47:43] >> He is in the best in the same exact
[47:46] situation. What would you tell him to do
[47:47] at this moment? I guarantee you're not
[47:50] going to say, you know, you got to go
[47:51] crazy because you can't think straight.
[47:53] You're going to say, "Dude, whatever
[47:54] happens, let's stay calm, you know,
[47:55] because otherwise you can't think."
[47:56] That's what you're going to say. And
[47:58] most of the time when that's how I do
[48:00] it, I step away from it. And I just see
[48:02] myself looking at the situation as if my
[48:05] loved one or a friend of mine has it.
[48:07] And what advice would I give him then
[48:10] and then the advice is completely
[48:12] different of what I was going to do,
[48:14] what I wanted to do. And then I realized
[48:16] I'm wrong. You know, everything is pride
[48:18] nowadays. Pride, pride, pride, pride,
[48:19] pride. You know, you can't save
[48:21] somebody. If you say hello to somebody
[48:22] who doesn't say hi back, boom. Oh, good
[48:26] day to you. I go, dude. You don't know
[48:28] what's going on with that guy. He might
[48:29] just had a phone call that his wife is
[48:31] in the hospital. Maybe somebody died.
[48:32] Agorophobia. I mean, there's so many
[48:34] things that you don't know. But you
[48:36] because they say don't say hi back to
[48:38] you. If you say hi, thank you. Or or you
[48:42] open the door for somebody, you do it
[48:43] for a thank you, you're doing it for the
[48:45] wrong reasons, you're doing it for you.
[48:47] You know, you do that because it's the
[48:49] right thing to do. That's why you want
[48:50] to open the door for somebody. I don't
[48:52] wait for thank yous. If I let somebody
[48:53] in traffic, I don't even look at them. I
[48:55] don't need to, oh, hello. No, that's not
[48:57] why I did it. I know what it feels like
[48:59] standing there. Nobody lets you in.
[49:01] That's why I let you in, you know. So,
[49:03] yeah, doing things for a thank you.
[49:05] You're the one who's wrong, not the
[49:07] other person. Trust me. Yeah, the it
[49:09] sounds like you've kind of uh
[49:11] organically
[49:12] uh generated your own stoic practices
[49:15] that are very much aligned with the
[49:17] ancient practices because Epictitus also
[49:19] says if something bad happens to you,
[49:20] imagine it happening to a friend and
[49:22] then what would you say to the friend?
[49:23] You might be like
[49:24] >> see I swear to God I did not know that
[49:26] >> literally. Yeah.
[49:27] >> Yeah.
[49:28] >> Yeah. Yeah. Because like if you if your
[49:30] car breaks down, it's the end of the
[49:31] world. But if your friend's car breaks
[49:33] down, you just go, "Oh, that's kind of
[49:34] sucks." You know, and it's just not it's
[49:36] not as much of a big deal. It's not
[49:38] great, but it's not as much of a big
[49:39] deal if it happens to you.
[49:41] >> Um but yeah, that makes sense because
[49:44] the ancient Stoics, they just lived
[49:45] life. They lived interesting, difficult
[49:48] lives, and that's how they developed a
[49:50] lot of their practices. Similar to you.
[49:52] Um can we talk a little bit about
[49:54] confidence? I think this ties in here. I
[49:56] think when uh people start learning how
[49:59] to fight, they want to test their skills
[50:02] if someone triggers them. It's like an
[50:03] opportunity to be like, can I actually
[50:06] handle this situation or not? But you
[50:08] said that it's easier, it became easier
[50:10] to walk away from those situations
[50:12] because you didn't need to test your
[50:13] skills anymore. You just kind of knew
[50:15] what what who you were. Is that the sign
[50:17] of of true strength is being able to not
[50:20] prove something? How do you how do you
[50:22] see that? Yeah, that's well the
[50:25] Spider-Man saying right with great power
[50:27] comes great responsibility, right? And I
[50:30] I I think that's that's everything, you
[50:32] know. I know you a regular person you
[50:35] not going to beat me. It's not going to
[50:36] happen. He can maybe knock me out,
[50:38] although I never been knocked out,
[50:40] >> you know. So, I' I've been I I busted my
[50:42] head against a toilet seat when I was
[50:44] drunk and I fell backwards and hit a
[50:46] toilet, a ceramic toilet. I should have
[50:49] been dead. Toilet exposed.
[50:51] >> Wow. Yeah,
[50:52] >> it's like 150 pieces. The whole floor
[50:54] started floating. That was a whole other
[50:56] story in the hotel. It was hilarious.
[50:57] But that's another story. But I mean,
[51:00] how is that even possible? Luck again,
[51:03] right? I somehow I hit a weak spot,
[51:06] >> you know? So, yeah, walk away from it.
[51:09] It doesn't uh it doesn't do anything.
[51:12] You and you know the feeling afterwards.
[51:14] Most of the time I feel bad. I had it in
[51:16] a fight. in the fight. I I I I felt
[51:18] horrible, but then again, I didn't know,
[51:21] you know. Um I I I saw a a preview of
[51:24] our show a day before the fight on the
[51:26] big screen in Japan on like a wall, like
[51:28] a like a like a building. And this is in
[51:31] 94. This is like gigantic. The whole
[51:34] wall is built uh screen and we hear
[51:37] hybrid wrestling pancros
[51:39] >> and you the first thing you see is me
[51:41] knocking down my first opponent. Oh,
[51:42] it's the preview. The preview for the
[51:44] show tomorrow. Oh, so we're all fighters
[51:46] are standing there and I got this guy
[51:48] behind me. He's the 10th degree Kushin,
[51:50] the highest one after the guy who
[51:52] founded it, Mazoyaba, uh, John Blooming,
[51:55] and I see this move, which I never did
[51:58] and I never knew. It's a it's a leg
[52:00] lock, an inverted heel hook. And I see
[52:02] the guy sitting in half guard, he falls
[52:04] back, and he wins the fight. So I tell
[52:06] him, I go, "That's a cool move. I should
[52:08] remember that." Next day I'm in a fight
[52:10] >> and I'm in that position. I go,
[52:12] [laughter] "I'll try it." Right? So, I
[52:14] grab it. But since I never trained
[52:16] before, uh before I had no clue what I
[52:19] was really doing, I didn't know that I
[52:21] was going to by falling back putting an
[52:23] enormous amount of pressure on his leg.
[52:26] Well, in this case, normally the knee
[52:27] will pop, but his knee was stronger than
[52:29] his shimb. So, the shimbone broke in
[52:31] half and that guy was and I felt very
[52:34] bad for the uh for a very long time
[52:37] about that especially went to the
[52:39] hospital. So, we got an infection in it.
[52:40] He was like 6 months there. It was s I
[52:43] when I visited him there I I yeah I was
[52:46] crying I felt so bad for the guy you
[52:48] know so that it really hurt me you know
[52:50] you it sometimes it goes too hard and
[52:52] thankfully it was a professional fight
[52:53] he signed up for it is not a pro but I
[52:55] never want to have that experience on
[52:57] the street with somebody you can kill
[52:59] somebody if somebody doesn't know how to
[53:00] take a shot he's completely relaxed and
[53:03] you it's a full punch that lands him you
[53:05] can do some damage so I would go for the
[53:06] body a lot you know or a low kick if
[53:09] nobody knows how to kick to the legs
[53:11] that
[53:13] it's one kick, that's it. Fight's over.
[53:15] You know, they can't walk anymore
[53:16] because they don't know how to deal with
[53:18] it yet. You know, the muscle is relaxed.
[53:20] It penetrates straight through. That's a
[53:21] heavy leg coming shin bone with thinking
[53:23] god knows how many miles an hour and the
[53:25] weight of the leg. You're not going to
[53:26] win that. You know, you're going to go
[53:27] down and that's actually a funnier thing
[53:29] because that is simply can't walk
[53:31] anymore. And then you can walk up and
[53:32] you go, you want to you want to keep
[53:34] going? They go, no, no, no. So, it's
[53:36] kind of a cooler thing to do as well,
[53:37] but then you don't hurt them. You know,
[53:39] I will feel horrible if you
[53:41] >> by accident put somebody in in really
[53:43] bad in the hospital.
[53:45] >> Yeah. We don't we don't think in the
[53:47] moment that we're all connected as well.
[53:48] Like the the very angry person who's
[53:51] getting in your face could also be a
[53:52] parent, you know, a family member that
[53:55] others rely on.
[53:56] >> That could be. God knows what happened
[53:57] to him the last week,
[53:59] >> you know, and a few drinks makes him
[54:00] crazy. I don't know,
[54:02] >> but it's possible. Yeah. So, that's what
[54:04] I always say on the street. The guy cuts
[54:06] you off. That's the same example. You
[54:08] know, he cuts you off and people get
[54:09] angry right away. I go in my talks. I
[54:11] say about this. What if a guy Oh, no. I
[54:13] start by saying, imagine you see a guy
[54:15] and he's passing you high speed and he
[54:17] cuts like six cars in front of you. He
[54:20] cuts a guy and he keeps going. Do you
[54:22] get angry? No. But you think, what an
[54:24] idiot. That's it, right? That's that's
[54:26] pretty much your emotion.
[54:28] >> But if he does it to you
[54:30] >> now, oh, how dare he do that to me?
[54:33] That's pride. Step away from that dude.
[54:36] And most of the time, like I said again,
[54:38] we don't know what's going on. He might
[54:40] be racing to the hospital, you know,
[54:42] that we don't know. So let it go.
[54:45] There's nothing you can do. Why would
[54:47] you get angry about it, you know? So
[54:49] yeah, just think about that. Again, you
[54:51] see those situations I'm thinking about
[54:53] constantly. I found this out with a a
[54:55] friend of mine. That's literally how I
[54:57] found out. He was driving and I was
[54:58] sitting shotgun and the guy cuts us off
[55:00] and he gets angry and I go, "Yeah,
[55:03] it's just an idiot." Yes. And then it
[55:05] gets cried in the go, "Oh," I go, "Oh
[55:07] no." He goes, "What?" I go, "Dude, it's
[55:09] pride." He goes, "What is pride?" And
[55:10] he's also a devout Catholic. I go, "If
[55:13] I'm driving and they do that to me, I
[55:16] get angry. But now I'm sitting next to
[55:18] you. You're driving and I'm not angry.
[55:21] So I see it as a personal attack. That's
[55:24] it's the dumbest thing there is. You
[55:26] see, it's the same situation only I'm
[55:28] not driving." And that's helped me a lot
[55:30] as well. Situations like that. I right
[55:32] away see the the the the spark from it
[55:35] that I can use in my own life because
[55:37] it's a work in progress. We all want to
[55:39] be in control. It's not that easy,
[55:41] right? You're going to work really
[55:44] really hard
[55:45] >> every single day, every moment. It's on
[55:48] my mind. If there's a crazy guy and I
[55:50] even think I go and I go, don't you
[55:53] don't think that constantly catching
[55:55] myself. I want it so that I don't even
[55:58] have that tenth of a second. I just
[56:01] wanted to be [clears throat] like that
[56:03] act like this real stoics like Aurelius
[56:05] or so Santa that you're talking about
[56:07] who completely do not get bothered by
[56:09] it. Fosin, that's what they say in
[56:12] Japan. That's the same thing as
[56:13] constancy, you know. Doesn't matter what
[56:15] situation, what elevation, you're
[56:17] completely under control, you know.
[56:19] That's what I want. But it's a lot of
[56:21] work. But it's working because in the
[56:23] past, you know, I've been working for
[56:24] years on this, you know, but it's
[56:26] getting less. It's getting less every
[56:28] single time. You simply neglect it. And
[56:30] you got to do that because if you one
[56:33] time give yourself in again, it's
[56:35] completely back again. So it's not like
[56:37] it's like breaking a habit, right? You
[56:39] break a habit. Yeah. It's easy once you
[56:41] have the rules. But as easy as it is to
[56:43] break habit, that's as how easy it is to
[56:45] get that habit back again. So you have
[56:47] to be constantly on your toes and know,
[56:49] oh, I would really like to feel a get a
[56:51] drink right now because I don't feel
[56:52] good. No, you said you're going to drink
[56:54] anymore. You know, and if I said I'm not
[56:56] going to drink anymore, I'm not going to
[56:57] drink anymore. Yeah, but you took and if
[56:59] I drink one beer the next day, I can't
[57:01] stand myself. But it's it was
[57:03] temperance. You could do that. No, no,
[57:05] no. It wasn't because I told myself I
[57:07] was not going to do it, but I still do
[57:09] it. That's what that's what the
[57:10] conversation I have to myself. I still
[57:13] did it and I couldn't say no to that one
[57:15] stupid drink. It it it annoys me. But
[57:18] what it does, it also helps me a lot
[57:20] because I don't want to feel like a
[57:21] loser anymore the next day. So now I can
[57:23] simply say no, I'm not going to drink
[57:25] because I said I didn't want to go
[57:26] drink. And one drink is that's for me
[57:29] already a drink because I said I was not
[57:30] going to do it. Not talking about
[57:32] getting drunk. You know, I I think
[57:35] you're a good example of your entire
[57:36] life. You've done very difficult things.
[57:38] Um, from getting destroyed in jiu-jitsu
[57:41] to saying, "I'm going to tap everyone
[57:42] out in six months and then going and
[57:43] doing it." And yet, you're also saying
[57:45] that you've been working on the
[57:47] emotional mastery side for years.
[57:49] >> And it's it's a it's a different kind of
[57:53] hard, you know, to use that kind of
[57:55] restraint when your entire body is
[57:57] saying like, "Shout at this person or
[57:59] judge this person."
[58:00] Um, so I think there's something to take
[58:02] away from that. If anyone's listening to
[58:04] this,
[58:05] >> I think it's harder fighting
[58:07] >> to to be completely under control, to
[58:09] have your temperance completely under
[58:10] control, all your virtues, prudence,
[58:11] justice, temperance, and fortitude to
[58:13] have the all and also virtues because
[58:15] there's a lot of them. If you have that
[58:17] under control, man, that was my thing.
[58:19] My life said, "What what man do you want
[58:21] to be?" This is a line when I use this
[58:22] as a talk, they always say, "Hey, repeat
[58:25] that." Because they want it. What kind
[58:27] of man you want to be? Well, I want to
[58:28] be a man who can overcome his
[58:29] weaknesses, vices, and imperfections. A
[58:31] man who is not a slave to his passions,
[58:33] emotions, and desires, but just a man
[58:35] who's completely in control of himself.
[58:37] That's what I want to be. And then I
[58:40] feel good because all these people when
[58:42] you're feeding yourself, you know it's
[58:43] not good for yourself. It's overeating,
[58:45] it's alcohol, it's drugs, it's sex, it's
[58:47] anger, whatever it is, it doesn't
[58:49] matter. You know it's not good for you
[58:50] and it starts eating at you. And every
[58:52] time you wake up, you go, "Ah, I
[58:54] shouldn't do this anymore." Every time
[58:55] when I I was drinking, I was doing
[58:56] drugs. I was I was completely loose
[58:59] cannon and 150 times 200 times that I
[59:02] would wake up and say I'm not going to
[59:03] drink today and at 4:00 boom starts
[59:05] again all night pain partying and then
[59:07] next day wake up and every time that
[59:08] happens your word to yourself doesn't
[59:11] hold value anymore. It's going away
[59:14] because you said too many times now uh
[59:17] that you were not going to do it but you
[59:18] broke that rule. Now it's easy to break
[59:20] the rule because it's normal. You've
[59:22] been doing it already for 150 times. The
[59:24] only way to stop it is to literally stop
[59:27] it. And then you're going to find out
[59:29] that if you do that, yes, it will be
[59:31] hard the first week, not even because
[59:34] you see after 3 days already the fruits,
[59:36] you're going to go like, okay, yes, it's
[59:39] hard, but I can do this because I
[59:40] already feel more clear-headed. And then
[59:42] you realize the more you say no, the
[59:43] easier it gets and and the easier it
[59:46] becomes to say no, you know, because
[59:48] you're getting stronger.
[59:50] >> And and and that's what people have to
[59:51] figure out. But they don't want to take
[59:53] that step. We all want to feel good and
[59:55] we want to look good and we want to do
[59:57] everything but we don't want to do
[59:59] anything for it. They want to take a
[1:00:01] pill to lose weight and they don't want
[1:00:02] to go to the gym. They don't want to
[1:00:03] spend time on theirelves. Your body is
[1:00:06] your it's a gift. Why would you tear it
[1:00:09] up? Would you tell a loved one? That was
[1:00:11] the last video I made. I said would you
[1:00:12] tell a loved one to start doing drugs
[1:00:14] and you eat more, you know, stop working
[1:00:16] out all these things. Would you tell
[1:00:17] them? Of course not. Why? Because you
[1:00:19] love them. Okay. So why don't you love
[1:00:20] yourself?
[1:00:22] >> Right? They don't they don't love
[1:00:25] themselves because they just keep
[1:00:26] feeding it
[1:00:27] >> and complaining and pointing at other
[1:00:29] fingers who people who are successful.
[1:00:32] That's where they want to be. But they
[1:00:33] don't want to do the work that that
[1:00:34] person had to do to get there. No, they
[1:00:36] just want to be there. That's the
[1:00:38] problem now with social media. Everybody
[1:00:40] wants to be a YouTuber. I mean, if you
[1:00:42] ask in schools, I mean, that's like an
[1:00:45] 80% answer because it's an easy way.
[1:00:48] That's what they think. It's not these
[1:00:50] real YouTubers what they have to do for
[1:00:52] it. this camera crew scripts. I mean,
[1:00:54] it's a lot of work, guys. It's
[1:00:56] traveling. Yeah, it's cool. Trust me.
[1:00:58] Fighting is cool, too, you know. But,
[1:01:01] but
[1:01:02] going to a UFC of a regular event like
[1:01:05] professional fighters league is going to
[1:01:07] be here. My friend say, "Are you going
[1:01:08] to go?" I said, "No, because I'm going
[1:01:10] to be shaking hands all day long because
[1:01:11] all these people, they know me, right?
[1:01:14] Because from the fighting, so I'm not
[1:01:16] going to watch a fight. There's
[1:01:17] constantly people coming out making
[1:01:18] pictures and that's cool, but not for
[1:01:20] two and a half hours.
[1:01:22] So yeah, be careful what you wish for. I
[1:01:25] always say I'm with my friends, famous
[1:01:27] actors, we can't go to a supermarket
[1:01:30] because people come. You see, I don't
[1:01:33] have I'm like recognized 10, 15 times a
[1:01:35] day and say, "Hey, Bop." And then
[1:01:37] somehow they still think fighters, watch
[1:01:38] out. So, so thankfully that not a lot of
[1:01:40] people start making long conversations.
[1:01:42] But it's the perfect blend for me, you
[1:01:44] know, because I look at my buddies
[1:01:47] >> like Conor McGregor, well, good luck.
[1:01:49] You need to buy a brat, well, good luck
[1:01:51] with that. Because if one person you
[1:01:53] >> Yeah.
[1:01:54] >> Everybody's coming and now you got to
[1:01:56] get out of there. Yeah. But that's cool.
[1:01:58] Not if it happens every day, man. Trust
[1:02:00] me on that. It's uh again, be careful
[1:02:03] what you wish for.
[1:02:04] >> You know, there's you're you're
[1:02:05] reminding me there's a part in the
[1:02:07] Ancaridian by Epictitus where he says
[1:02:09] that a lot of adults are like children
[1:02:11] where we we want to play dress up. Like
[1:02:13] one day we want to be a fighter, one day
[1:02:15] we want to be an actor.
[1:02:17] >> But what you need to do is look at what
[1:02:18] it actually involves. like what is the
[1:02:21] he uses the an Olympian as an example an
[1:02:23] Olympic wrestler I believe he's like
[1:02:24] what do they eat how do they train what
[1:02:27] are their injuries what's their social
[1:02:28] life like what are their sacrifices and
[1:02:30] only if you want that then you can try
[1:02:32] to be one of those but don't just think
[1:02:34] of someone on a podium with a medal and
[1:02:36] say I'm going to be that
[1:02:37] >> and what you're describing is exactly
[1:02:39] that
[1:02:40] >> yeah they want all the shortcuts and
[1:02:41] that's the pills the heartburn you see
[1:02:43] here people are so overweight you know
[1:02:46] and they and they have heartburn I said
[1:02:48] well that's your body telling you don't
[1:02:49] eat that crap, that's bad food for you.
[1:02:51] That's literally your body telling you,
[1:02:53] >> "No, no, no, no, no. I I grab a anticit,
[1:02:57] you know, like a whole bottle. If I
[1:02:58] drink that before, I can still eat that
[1:02:59] pie with all the crap on it that I
[1:03:01] want." No, you're killing yourself.
[1:03:03] Don't eat that stuff, you know. Why
[1:03:05] would you force it just because you like
[1:03:07] the taste of it? Everything needs to be
[1:03:10] good. The temperature needs to be
[1:03:11] perfect. The food cannot be overcooked
[1:03:13] or under whatever. Everything Everything
[1:03:15] is wrong. We're complaining about
[1:03:17] everything. We You have AC? Yeah. won't
[1:03:19] be me happy. A lot of people in the
[1:03:21] world don't have that warm showers that
[1:03:24] what in 1921 or something that came out.
[1:03:27] >> I mean, that's that's 100 years ago.
[1:03:29] Before that, everybody had cold showers,
[1:03:31] you know, and now it's like, oh, it's
[1:03:33] too cold, it's too hot, it's too they
[1:03:34] can still control it, you know. It's
[1:03:36] amazing to me how weak people are
[1:03:38] becoming. This discipline is gone. They
[1:03:42] don't nothing discipline for themselves.
[1:03:45] They all want to feel better, but they
[1:03:46] don't realize that cutting all that
[1:03:48] stuff out. Like with me, I thought
[1:03:50] always that I was in control because I
[1:03:52] did the drugs and the alcohol and anger
[1:03:53] and I did all that stuff because I want
[1:03:56] to be happy. No, that's pleasure. It's
[1:03:58] all pleasure. That's different. That's
[1:04:00] dopamine
[1:04:01] >> pleasure. Happiness is serotonin. It's a
[1:04:04] nice relaxed state. That's that's that's
[1:04:06] what you want to gun for, you know,
[1:04:08] because serotonin dopamine that that are
[1:04:11] all vices. You always need more in order
[1:04:14] to feel the same as you did the la the
[1:04:16] last time, you know. And if you want to
[1:04:17] walk that path, well, then don't start
[1:04:20] complaining because your life is going
[1:04:21] to go down the drain. You're not going
[1:04:22] to have a life. You're not have having
[1:04:24] goals. 17year-old, the average
[1:04:26] 17-year-old right now has 91% of his
[1:04:29] free time is on his phone.
[1:04:32] Think about that.
[1:04:33] >> What do you want to be?
[1:04:35] >> You can't make a life out of that. So, I
[1:04:38] I don't I don't know how this is going
[1:04:40] to get better. That's why I do a lot of
[1:04:42] talking and it's at colleges, you know,
[1:04:44] these younger people and I try to, you
[1:04:47] know, and hopefully with my background
[1:04:49] that they have listen, you know, but it
[1:04:51] works because every time I do a talk, I
[1:04:53] got six new other ones booked pretty
[1:04:55] much, you know, because people say,
[1:04:56] "Dude, you didn't speak everywhere. You
[1:04:57] just say whatever you want to say." I
[1:04:58] go, "Yeah, because it's the truth.
[1:05:00] >> The truth will set you free, right?
[1:05:03] That's the only way to get stronger in
[1:05:05] life. Work for it." I mean, people don't
[1:05:07] know like I I just put a video out. What
[1:05:10] I do in the morning, you know, I already
[1:05:12] before I talk to you. Uh, okay. I talked
[1:05:16] like 45 minutes to God. It started with
[1:05:18] that. Then I walk the dogs. Oh, no.
[1:05:20] First, I do my inspiratoral muscle
[1:05:21] training thing that I have here. I that
[1:05:23] that's the first thing I do. I take all
[1:05:25] my waters and my whatever the vitamins
[1:05:27] that I'm taking. I'm walking the dogs. I
[1:05:29] do I I I talk to God. I I worked out for
[1:05:32] 45 minutes. I go to mass. Then I go to
[1:05:35] mass. I go to the store, the grocery
[1:05:37] store. I bought a whole bunch of stuff.
[1:05:39] I come here, I cook for myself, my own
[1:05:41] food, not warming up in the microwave,
[1:05:43] you know, and then and then uh I did a
[1:05:45] little bit more and then I I I'm jumping
[1:05:47] on this call. This is what I already
[1:05:49] did.
[1:05:50] >> And it was only that that's what I did
[1:05:52] before 9:00 in the morning.
[1:05:54] >> You know, all that that's people
[1:05:56] normally life. So people go like, "Oh,
[1:05:58] you still look good." I go, "Yeah,
[1:06:00] >> yeah, because I work out. I do." Yeah,
[1:06:01] but you like working out. I hate working
[1:06:03] out. You don't know my body. It's
[1:06:05] killing me. But I do it. And you know
[1:06:07] why I do it? Because I know I going to
[1:06:09] feel great after I'm done.
[1:06:11] >> Those 14, 16 hours a day that I have,
[1:06:13] they're freaking phenomenal. If I do a
[1:06:15] 45minute workout, and my workouts are,
[1:06:17] they're not really 45 minutes. They're
[1:06:19] not long, but they're short and intense,
[1:06:21] but I feel so good. And what other
[1:06:23] people do, they go like they don't think
[1:06:25] about the 14, 16 hours. They think about
[1:06:27] the 45 minutes, what they had to do, the
[1:06:30] struggle in order to feel that good. So
[1:06:33] they they don't want to do it. Well, if
[1:06:35] you stop every vice there is, you're
[1:06:37] going to be happy. I'm telling you,
[1:06:40] you're going to be happy. You're not
[1:06:41] attached. Nothing is controlling you
[1:06:43] because you're just a slave to alcohol.
[1:06:46] You're a slave to any vice. You're
[1:06:48] simply a slave. It tells you what to do
[1:06:50] and you're doing it. Okay, I'm going to
[1:06:52] do it. Then we see that on social media
[1:06:54] as well. You jump hoops. You do. You're
[1:06:56] like a dogs. What I said, what does it
[1:06:58] say? Was it Sedica who said, "Oh, no,
[1:07:00] no. Oh, no. No. wasn't a
[1:07:04] a Chinese philosopher, right? I forget
[1:07:05] his name. He said, "Um, care what other
[1:07:08] people think and you will be their
[1:07:09] prisoner." And I go, "No, you will be
[1:07:12] their dog." And they go, "Dog?" I go,
[1:07:14] "Yeah, you'll be their dog. You You want
[1:07:17] what I do? Everything for the people, it
[1:07:19] may make everybody happy. Even when the
[1:07:20] dog gets beat up by his owner and each
[1:07:23] owner comes home, he's doing everything
[1:07:25] for the owner." That's what you are.
[1:07:26] You're trying to please everybody else
[1:07:28] to get your numbers up on stupid social
[1:07:30] media. Who cares?
[1:07:31] You know, so it's so for you as a stoic,
[1:07:36] you have the same feelings. I know you
[1:07:37] do because you see the going down.
[1:07:39] >> Oh, yeah.
[1:07:40] >> And the only way to get up
[1:07:41] >> Yeah.
[1:07:42] >> is live like that to cut everything out.
[1:07:47] >> 100%. Yeah. Everything you're saying is
[1:07:49] making making complete sense. I didn't
[1:07:50] realize the extent to which you you've
[1:07:52] gone down the rabbit hole with this
[1:07:54] stuff. Um you so when I was doing my
[1:07:57] research I saw that I don't know how
[1:08:00] your relationship with alcohol before
[1:08:02] but I did see that you stopped or you
[1:08:04] managed your relationship very quickly
[1:08:07] when you read the word slave.
[1:08:10] >> Could you talk about what that word
[1:08:11] meant for you and how that kind of
[1:08:13] snapped you out of
[1:08:14] >> Yeah, that was that was when I jumped
[1:08:15] back into the faith. That was in 2014
[1:08:17] and there was whatever overcomes a man
[1:08:19] to that he is enslaved. Well, enslaved
[1:08:23] this. You're a slave to it.
[1:08:24] >> And I go, "No, but I could choose when I
[1:08:27] drink." No, actually, you can't. The
[1:08:29] alcohol just have to be in the house.
[1:08:30] Doesn't say anything to you. You just
[1:08:32] want to drink it. And you can't say you
[1:08:34] can't even stop it. Something in you
[1:08:36] can't even stop it. Dude, you're a weak
[1:08:38] person. That's what I thought. How weak
[1:08:40] are you that you cannot simply say no to
[1:08:42] that bottle of alcohol?
[1:08:44] >> Yeah. And you know, if one bottle, two
[1:08:45] bottles, if I feel the spark, oh, now
[1:08:47] it's going to be 30, 35 beers. Or you
[1:08:49] drink that. Oh, I drink 15 bottles of uh
[1:08:51] uh wine. I mean, it was insane. And I
[1:08:54] never had hangovers. So, why would I
[1:08:56] stop, you know? It's that was this
[1:08:58] insane. It's [clears throat] so bad for
[1:09:00] you, you know, and you start it. It does
[1:09:02] affect you mentally because once I
[1:09:04] stopped everything, my mind came back so
[1:09:06] much stronger. I'm memorization,
[1:09:09] everything. It became better and better
[1:09:12] and better and I start feeling good
[1:09:14] again. I go, okay, now I can work out.
[1:09:16] If I would have been in that state still
[1:09:17] drink, I would have never worked out.
[1:09:19] Now, I don't want to work out, but I
[1:09:20] know I focus on the good feeling. I
[1:09:22] focus always focus on the feeling that
[1:09:24] you're gonna have from it, not what you
[1:09:26] have to do. You know, we can all do it.
[1:09:29] Like, for instance, if you're going to
[1:09:30] get married and you're overweight and
[1:09:32] your spouse is overweight, they go, "Oh,
[1:09:34] let's go like two months in so we look
[1:09:36] good for the pictures." And then I
[1:09:38] guarantee you, every single person who
[1:09:40] does that, three weeks in, they go like,
[1:09:41] "Dude, I don't understand why I never
[1:09:44] did this before. I'm feeling so good."
[1:09:47] That's what they tell everybody. And as
[1:09:49] soon as the wedding is done, they stop.
[1:09:53] It's too hard. Wait, didn't you say two
[1:09:55] months ago, right? They forget about it.
[1:09:58] And then they start gaining weight
[1:10:00] again. You should be ashamed. It's like
[1:10:01] these people with the internet, they put
[1:10:03] pictures on them, they got apps. And
[1:10:04] like I told my buddy, I said, "Take that
[1:10:06] freaking picture off of Facebook, dude.
[1:10:08] That's not you anymore. You got 20 P
[1:10:10] pounds now on you. You don't have apps.
[1:10:13] That's your profile picture. Seriously,
[1:10:15] take it off." Or what about this? Start
[1:10:17] working out again. Get those apps again
[1:10:19] and then do redo a picture. But don't
[1:10:21] put a fake you out there. Oh, that's a
[1:10:23] nice guy. Yeah. Then you see him. That's
[1:10:25] [laughter] a different person. Why would
[1:10:27] you do that?
[1:10:28] >> You see? So, yeah, man. It drives me
[1:10:31] insane. So, and and all these things
[1:10:33] that I'm saying, I did it on myself.
[1:10:35] That's how I talk to myself,
[1:10:37] >> right?
[1:10:38] >> You know, no, I would never do that
[1:10:40] because that's not who I am, you know? I
[1:10:43] would like the people me to do. Oh, did
[1:10:45] you Why didn't you never change? I go,
[1:10:48] it's because I feel good the way I am. I
[1:10:50] don't why would I need to change
[1:10:52] physically and everything. I don't want
[1:10:53] to be bigger. I don't want to be
[1:10:54] unhealthy. You know, I I love my family.
[1:10:56] I want to try to stay with my family as
[1:10:58] long as I can. So, I see already have a
[1:11:00] grandkid hopefully grand grandkids. My
[1:11:01] other daughter is pregnant now, so I
[1:11:03] going to have another one coming on the
[1:11:04] way. Spend my lifetime as long as I can.
[1:11:07] And anything that I do bad, any bad vice
[1:11:10] out there that can take years of my
[1:11:11] life,
[1:11:12] >> I like to stop with that. Which includes
[1:11:14] anger and which includes all these
[1:11:15] things as well. People don't realize
[1:11:17] what anger can really do physically to
[1:11:19] your body, you know, cancer and all that
[1:11:21] stuff. It's [clears throat]
[1:11:22] >> because we, you know, you're just
[1:11:23] constantly dragging yourself down. You
[1:11:26] are what you think, right? And nobody
[1:11:28] realizes that. Those those things that
[1:11:30] they show with water. Did you ever see
[1:11:32] that they have water in this room and
[1:11:34] water in the other room to this water?
[1:11:36] They say, "Oh man, I love you every day.
[1:11:38] I love you. I do this." But if they
[1:11:39] freeze that water, then they go they
[1:11:41] freeze that water. They go to the other
[1:11:42] room and say, "I hate you. I do." They
[1:11:44] they talk to water. Water water. They
[1:11:48] freeze that water. And then you look at
[1:11:49] the crystals. Google that. You'll be
[1:11:52] insane. Like beautiful crystals for the
[1:11:55] the loved one. And the other ones are
[1:11:57] just chucks and clumps and all that
[1:11:59] stuff. That is water. Well, we're 90%
[1:12:02] water.
[1:12:03] So feed yourself with positivity the
[1:12:06] whole time because your mind starts
[1:12:08] believe if you say oh my god I'm such a
[1:12:09] dumbass. If you say that the whole time
[1:12:11] you're becoming a dumbass because you're
[1:12:13] telling your mind that you are but you
[1:12:15] know I'm actually I'm telling myself I'm
[1:12:18] talk talk to to yourself as if it is
[1:12:21] already happening. It's the universe
[1:12:23] man. I'm telling you thank you for me
[1:12:25] being healthy. Thank you for my great
[1:12:27] mind that I have that I can retain
[1:12:29] information. Thank you. All these things
[1:12:31] I want, but you have to talk it like
[1:12:33] it's already happening. And then you see
[1:12:35] it literally going up. You're giving
[1:12:38] yourself love. Man, I'm feeling good.
[1:12:40] You know, even when you feel bad, start
[1:12:43] saying that, you know, and then suddenly
[1:12:44] you get out of it. But if it doesn't
[1:12:46] work for somebody within 30 seconds, ah,
[1:12:49] doesn't work.
[1:12:50] >> No. What about 10 minutes, 15 minutes?
[1:12:52] Only focus on that. You see, you're
[1:12:54] going to change. I'm telling you, you're
[1:12:56] going to change. You're going to feel
[1:12:57] good.
[1:13:00] the way you were describing the putting
[1:13:02] the the leaner picture up on social
[1:13:04] media on Facebook, the way you were
[1:13:05] describing talking to that person, to me
[1:13:07] that is real compassion.
[1:13:09] >> You know, it's s it's sort of like I
[1:13:10] care enough about you that I'm going to
[1:13:12] be honest with you instead of I'm going
[1:13:13] to like uh be indirect and not try and
[1:13:16] offend you. I think a a good way to
[1:13:18] think about it is what would you say to
[1:13:19] your own child? Like if your own child
[1:13:21] was acting up, you wouldn't just be
[1:13:23] like, "Oh yeah, carry on."
[1:13:24] >> You would be like, "No, let's sort this
[1:13:26] out because I love you." you know, let's
[1:13:28] let's let's get this sorted out. So,
[1:13:30] there's something um I noticed in the
[1:13:31] way you were framing that that I thought
[1:13:33] was actually truly kind of
[1:13:35] >> because you're willing to say things and
[1:13:37] I could have said because this is
[1:13:39] literally what happened to me, but I
[1:13:40] didn't say that. I say it different to
[1:13:42] him. He's overweight. He's Canadian guy
[1:13:44] lives now in Italy and he hates his life
[1:13:46] because he's overweight. Overweight,
[1:13:47] over this is about six, seven months
[1:13:48] ago. And I go and he goes, "Yeah." And I
[1:13:50] get those. I said, "I just selfish ass."
[1:13:53] And he goes, "What?" I say, "You're a
[1:13:54] selfish person. That's what you are. And
[1:13:57] he it gets quiet. He goes, "What do you
[1:13:59] mean?" I go, "You put yourself in front
[1:14:00] of your family. Be be for your family.
[1:14:03] You don't think that what I just told
[1:14:05] you." I said, I said, "You don't think
[1:14:06] that your family wants you around for a
[1:14:08] very long time? You don't think they
[1:14:10] going to hate it when you die? You're
[1:14:11] taking years of your life because you
[1:14:14] are more important than your own family
[1:14:16] is." And he got quiet. And then he says,
[1:14:19] "Okay, you know, uh, okay. Well, well,
[1:14:22] we'll talk later." Boom. Hangs up the
[1:14:23] phone. 10 minutes later, bing, I got a
[1:14:26] WhatsApp, he goes, "Dude, it's best
[1:14:28] thing you ever could tell me." Best
[1:14:30] thing you ever told me. I said, "Yeah,
[1:14:31] because I love you." And so, and now I
[1:14:33] tell you why I told you. Because that's
[1:14:34] what I told myself.
[1:14:36] >> I was looking in the mirror at the
[1:14:38] druggie, at the drinker, at everything.
[1:14:39] And I said, "You're a selfish guy, man.
[1:14:42] You put yourself above your family. Your
[1:14:44] family should be number one." That's
[1:14:46] what I told myself. And that's when
[1:14:48] everything quit also. So now I told him,
[1:14:50] but if I would have told him in that
[1:14:52] order,
[1:14:53] >> it would have had the impact that it had
[1:14:55] when I did it the way I did it because
[1:14:57] now it was a shocker to him. Yeah. You
[1:14:59] know, but I did it again, like you said,
[1:15:01] out of love. I want you to have the
[1:15:03] best. And I know this is going to really
[1:15:05] upset you, but it's going to help you
[1:15:07] >> because you're going to start thinking
[1:15:08] about it within 15 minutes. Lost 70 65
[1:15:12] pounds now, I think. So
[1:15:14] >> it worked.
[1:15:15] >> Wow. Yes. That's amazing. I think uh so
[1:15:18] Epictitus' teacher Mousonius Rufus said
[1:15:20] that he wanted his lectures to kind of
[1:15:22] end in silence. So it was interesting
[1:15:24] that you said things went quiet. He
[1:15:26] didn't want applause. He wanted that
[1:15:28] kind of wow I I don't know what to say.
[1:15:30] I don't actually feel very good after
[1:15:32] this. But that that's what
[1:15:33] >> and they can't say anything because they
[1:15:34] know it's the truth.
[1:15:36] >> If they go like I said tell me I'm
[1:15:38] wrong.
[1:15:40] >> Right. They can't say that. No no no
[1:15:42] you're wrong. They can't.
[1:15:43] >> They can't. It's the truth. M
[1:15:45] >> you know that's that's the best thing
[1:15:47] you know you're just telling the truth
[1:15:49] but nowadays you can't tell truth to
[1:15:50] anybody to people you know if somebody's
[1:15:52] wearing shoes I've talked about that as
[1:15:54] well what do you think of my new shoes
[1:15:56] don't like them and they get angry I go
[1:15:58] well then don't ask me about your shoes
[1:15:59] I don't like those shoes is that really
[1:16:01] so bad think about why are you getting
[1:16:03] angry now
[1:16:05] >> I mean everybody do you like the Beatles
[1:16:07] no I love the Beatles
[1:16:09] >> and you oh now you don't get angry you
[1:16:11] see what color do you like you do this
[1:16:13] with everything but is the stakes they
[1:16:16] somehow become higher. If it's pride
[1:16:18] involved, I don't know what it is. It's
[1:16:20] weird how people's minds are going.
[1:16:23] >> Yeah. Identification with something,
[1:16:25] they start thinking the idea is them as
[1:16:28] opposed to something external.
[1:16:29] >> If I is great, therefore it has to be
[1:16:31] great. And if somebody says it's not,
[1:16:34] >> it pride again.
[1:16:36] >> Pride keeps coming up. Um so you
[1:16:39] mentioned uh the overlap between
[1:16:41] stoicism and Catholicism in in our
[1:16:44] correspondence. So in 2013 in your late
[1:16:48] 40s you returned to Catholic faith um
[1:16:52] which you you you you you had as a child
[1:16:55] and you practiced practice it I still
[1:16:58] believe today with a lot of um
[1:17:00] discipline and temperance and daily um
[1:17:04] not missing any days um just like with
[1:17:06] your training um you know bringing that
[1:17:08] same discipline and when I was
[1:17:10] researching this apparently you lost
[1:17:12] some followers a lot
[1:17:14] >> um because you 175 5,000 like in in two
[1:17:17] days on Facebook.
[1:17:19] >> Wow.
[1:17:19] >> Yeah. Because I wanted to be a good guy.
[1:17:21] >> Wow.
[1:17:23] >> So I was happy because they're the bad
[1:17:24] people anyway. I didn't need them, you
[1:17:26] know, and now it's it's coming back. So
[1:17:27] that was good.
[1:17:28] >> But yeah, it took a long time. I lost
[1:17:30] jobs. I lost everything. Like when they
[1:17:32] talk about the devil and all that stuff,
[1:17:34] I lost everything.
[1:17:36] >> I had a show on TV for nine years. That
[1:17:38] was going accommodating job for seven
[1:17:39] years. That was I mean within within 6
[1:17:41] weeks of all that I came back to this
[1:17:44] >> everything starts going business deals
[1:17:45] went wrong everything was wrong I was
[1:17:47] like what is going on
[1:17:49] >> and then actually a friend of mine
[1:17:50] >> wow
[1:17:51] >> said that I need to pray start praying a
[1:17:53] daily rosary that's how it started and I
[1:17:56] started doing that and I remember the
[1:17:57] first time I prayed a hum I was have my
[1:17:59] eyes closed I heard this weird sound
[1:18:02] >> sound was a hummingbird right in front
[1:18:04] of me here
[1:18:05] >> and I'm look open my eyes I go hey dude
[1:18:07] what's up and he's
[1:18:10] You know, he's just in front of me. Oh,
[1:18:12] man. This is so cool. You're so
[1:18:13] beautiful. And I'm just talking and I
[1:18:15] go, [ __ ] goes off. Next day I'm sitting
[1:18:17] there again where Rosie Honey is back,
[1:18:21] you know, and that was it. It was
[1:18:22] literally within a week, poof, I got a
[1:18:23] job. Poof, I got this. Poof, I got this.
[1:18:25] And everything starts suddenly started
[1:18:27] coming back, you know. And then slowly
[1:18:29] but surely, the internet, the the the
[1:18:31] followers start growing again. Everybody
[1:18:33] start coming back. And then a lot of
[1:18:35] people start contacting me about it, you
[1:18:38] know, oh, I lost the faith and but I saw
[1:18:39] your video and I got back into the faith
[1:18:42] and man, I'm feeling so good right now.
[1:18:43] And it kept boom boom boom boom boom
[1:18:45] boom boom and now and now I'm talking
[1:18:47] for the faith. I do a speaking
[1:18:49] engagement. So, you know, and I love it
[1:18:51] because we're changing people. People
[1:18:52] don't want they don't want to tell pe
[1:18:56] people who never experienced things in
[1:18:58] their life who always been good.
[1:19:01] It's not really hard to learn from
[1:19:03] because you never made a mistake.
[1:19:04] >> But if you listen to a guy like me who
[1:19:07] did everything wrong and I could dig
[1:19:10] myself out of it, you know, then maybe
[1:19:13] people going to go, "Hey, wait a minute.
[1:19:14] I'm in that situation. I do this. I did
[1:19:16] this. I did that. I did that. I did a
[1:19:17] lot wrong, you know." So, and and that
[1:19:21] inspires some people. And if it does, if
[1:19:23] it's one person, if I can save one
[1:19:24] person with it, I'm already happy, you
[1:19:26] know. But it it's working. A lot of
[1:19:28] people are saying that you need to speak
[1:19:30] here, you need to speak there. So, I'm
[1:19:32] really enjoying those talks
[1:19:34] >> just like I was enjoying teaching
[1:19:36] classes. I love to bring over the the
[1:19:39] the fundamentals of fighting, you know,
[1:19:42] to really get inside their heads and uh
[1:19:45] and be and especially when I see
[1:19:47] somebody loves it, you know, like I was
[1:19:49] a person you ask you something and then
[1:19:50] when you when you tell me how to do it,
[1:19:52] that's the way I do it immediately. And
[1:19:54] if I don't do it immediately, tomorrow
[1:19:55] will be the job because I will make sure
[1:19:58] this is going to be fixed in a second.
[1:20:00] >> So if you come in with me and you're
[1:20:02] asking me about things, I had this
[1:20:03] fighter coming in. He just knocked out a
[1:20:05] big Russian guy. Was complete lucky
[1:20:07] shot. And he thought he was the man and
[1:20:09] everything. And he says, "Hey, want to
[1:20:11] come and train in my gym?" And he's
[1:20:12] training there. And he goes, "Okay, I
[1:20:14] want you to look and give me pointers on
[1:20:16] what I have to fix." Well, there was a
[1:20:18] lot fixed, right? So he comes out train.
[1:20:21] What is it? He says, "Do I got like nine
[1:20:23] things that that you're really going to
[1:20:25] have to improve on? It's a lot." "Okay,
[1:20:26] what are those?" I said, "I'll give you
[1:20:27] one." I said, "And once you fix that
[1:20:29] one, we're going to go to the two
[1:20:31] because if I'm going to give you nine,
[1:20:32] there's no way you can fix this." Three
[1:20:34] weeks later, he comes back to me. Hey,
[1:20:37] so what's the second thing? You never
[1:20:39] told me the second thing. I say, "You
[1:20:40] still didn't fix the first thing." You
[1:20:42] see, then you lost my respect already. I
[1:20:44] don't even want to train you anymore
[1:20:47] >> because that's you're not a fighter. and
[1:20:49] and and he and he said while he was
[1:20:52] sparring with shin guards that his uh
[1:20:56] skin the skin on his shin was hurting
[1:20:59] a fighter a professional fighter
[1:21:03] >> I go yeah I'm out dude I can't I mean
[1:21:06] complaining because your skin hurts that
[1:21:09] is like the dumbest thing you can ever
[1:21:11] tell me because I'm out I check out
[1:21:13] right away I don't want to do that it's
[1:21:14] the same thing with coming late you show
[1:21:16] up late be trained by me and You show up
[1:21:19] late, you got one more chance.
[1:21:22] >> I do.
[1:21:22] >> If there's a real reason for it, if I'm
[1:21:24] on time, you can be on time. I'm
[1:21:26] actually here 15 minutes before. I will
[1:21:28] always be on time. Always. My entire
[1:21:30] life has been doing that. If I say
[1:21:32] 10:00, I'll be there before 10:00.
[1:21:34] Always. Or something bad happens, but
[1:21:37] there's a good excuse, an accident or
[1:21:39] whatever it happens. That's a different
[1:21:40] thing. But just coming late, that's so
[1:21:43] disrespectful to me. You got one more
[1:21:45] check. And then if they go a second time
[1:21:47] and there's no explanation, you're out.
[1:21:49] I'm not training you anymore. Doesn't
[1:21:51] matter who you are.
[1:21:52] >> I'm not going to do it. You know, I just
[1:21:54] have standards that I don't want to
[1:21:56] break. That's the same when I got back
[1:21:57] to the faith with the profanity. I used
[1:21:58] a lot of profanity. I thought everybody
[1:22:00] was doing it here because I come from
[1:22:01] Holland. Why we see the movies?
[1:22:03] >> And then I just think suddenly I go, why
[1:22:05] am I doing this? What do you What do you
[1:22:08] gain by it? A friend of mine said, why
[1:22:10] wouldn't you do it anymore? I said, why
[1:22:12] would you? And he looks at me.
[1:22:15] >> Flip it back. Yeah.
[1:22:16] >> Does it make you stronger? It doesn't do
[1:22:18] anything. If it makes me stronger,
[1:22:19] mentally stronger, smarter, yeah, of
[1:22:21] course I'm going to do it. Doesn't do
[1:22:23] anything of it. Actually makes me look
[1:22:24] dumber to me. People that do it every
[1:22:26] line. I I'm not caring about a person
[1:22:28] who drops an Fbomb one time. Absolutely
[1:22:31] not.
[1:22:31] >> But in every sentence, this effing guy
[1:22:33] was having telling me I go, "Oh, the
[1:22:36] whole time. Come on, do it. You're
[1:22:38] compensating for something, an
[1:22:40] insecurity. Something is going on with
[1:22:42] you. You don't need to do that." You
[1:22:44] know, and then I start thinking about my
[1:22:45] students. Do I really want to do that in
[1:22:47] front of my students, the youth? Do I
[1:22:49] want to teach your bosses using
[1:22:51] profanity? No. Why don't I want? So now
[1:22:53] my student, it's so funny because
[1:22:55] sometimes they're talking and he goes,
[1:22:56] "Yeah, this effing guy. Oh, sorry,
[1:22:58] boss." I go, "No, don't worry about it."
[1:22:59] You know, everybody's apologizing now
[1:23:02] because they know that I um Yeah, I
[1:23:05] don't like it. It makes it it's not
[1:23:06] necessary. That's what I'm saying.
[1:23:10] >> Yeah. But it's it's a it's all part of
[1:23:12] the having standards and like having
[1:23:14] values and living according to those. A
[1:23:16] lot of people's profanity is just
[1:23:17] unconscious
[1:23:18] >> and you your process is I'm going to
[1:23:20] make it conscious like do like and think
[1:23:22] about it. Do I want to do it? Why would
[1:23:24] I do it? Why wouldn't I do it? And now
[1:23:25] you've just decided through reason where
[1:23:28] you stand with it. I I I love that. Um
[1:23:31] you mentioned that you see a lot of
[1:23:32] overlap between stoicism and Catholic
[1:23:34] principles. Where do they line up most
[1:23:37] for you? And do you think that they kind
[1:23:38] of pull against each other at all or do
[1:23:40] you just think there's a lot of
[1:23:42] >> book? I didn't put it here because it
[1:23:43] lays open actually with a picture of my
[1:23:45] mom that I just found. I'm going to hang
[1:23:47] up. Look at this. [laughter]
[1:23:50] >> So,
[1:23:50] >> wow,
[1:23:52] that's cool.
[1:23:52] >> The Daily Stoic from Marcus Aurelius.
[1:23:55] And when I my my daughter gave this to
[1:23:56] me one
[1:23:57] >> and I start reading this and I go
[1:24:00] was a Catholic. That's that's the
[1:24:02] Catholic principles.
[1:24:03] >> You know, it's exactly the same. the
[1:24:05] virtues, the temperance, all the you
[1:24:06] know the kind of virtue only you guys
[1:24:08] are with with nature accordance to
[1:24:10] nature and reason you talk about but
[1:24:12] well we believe there's a creator for
[1:24:14] that nature of course and that's but but
[1:24:16] for the rest having yourself under
[1:24:18] control I'm talking about the Catholic
[1:24:20] faith like with the Protestant faith
[1:24:22] it's Catholic faith you have I'm talking
[1:24:26] living a as a Catholic that's what I'm
[1:24:28] talking about not going to church once a
[1:24:30] week you know and thinking you're a
[1:24:32] Catholic and then just flipping people
[1:24:33] off and on that when you get out of
[1:24:36] church already get they just start
[1:24:38] screaming at people no that's not a real
[1:24:40] I need mean a practicing one you know
[1:24:43] and for us to control all those virtues
[1:24:46] the prudence and the justice tempers and
[1:24:48] fortitude anti virtues that I talked
[1:24:50] about in the beginning it's a very hard
[1:24:52] thing to do and for me that's a
[1:24:53] challenge I want to be that guy I want
[1:24:55] to be see if I can get myself completely
[1:24:57] under control and that's with the
[1:24:59] Catholics so with the Protestants they
[1:25:01] it's well you can pretty much do
[1:25:03] anything what you want to
[1:25:04] uh as long as you say sorry God I love
[1:25:06] you I believe in you you're going to go
[1:25:08] to heaven I go well I don't think it
[1:25:09] works like that I think there needs to
[1:25:11] be rules that's why we got the ten
[1:25:13] commandments that's another thing right
[1:25:14] people go like oh if uh Jesus only wants
[1:25:17] um uh love why is there so much hate in
[1:25:21] the world I go because if there's no
[1:25:23] [clears throat] hate you wouldn't know
[1:25:24] what love was
[1:25:26] if there's no opposites you don't know
[1:25:27] what a thing is if there's no anger
[1:25:30] there's no there's no peace if there's
[1:25:32] no sadness there's no happiness there's
[1:25:34] It's going to be gone. We're going to be
[1:25:35] just people walking around with no
[1:25:37] feelings whatsoever pushing things
[1:25:39] around whatever we're doing. We're just
[1:25:41] robots. No, no, no. He want to give us
[1:25:43] free will. So the reason why there's so
[1:25:46] much anger and violence in the world is
[1:25:47] you and it's me and it's everybody else.
[1:25:50] That's why there's a violence because if
[1:25:51] you would live to the letter by the ten
[1:25:54] commandments that they gave us, and I
[1:25:56] mean to the letter, there wouldn't there
[1:25:58] wouldn't be violence. There wouldn't be
[1:25:59] nothing. Everything would be perfect.
[1:26:01] And that's stoicism as well because
[1:26:03] that's controlling those virtues, you
[1:26:05] know. And that's why I saw right away I
[1:26:07] go, my god, he was persecuting
[1:26:09] Christians not knowing that they have
[1:26:11] the same beliefs. They only believe that
[1:26:14] it came from God because well, something
[1:26:16] cannot come out of nothing, right?
[1:26:18] That's the very easy one for me, I
[1:26:19] always say. So that's and that's what
[1:26:22] really attracts me to stoicism because I
[1:26:26] I love to read about that because I I
[1:26:28] want to be that man that completely is
[1:26:31] in control of himself.
[1:26:34] >> Yeah. Yeah. that that there absolutely
[1:26:37] is so much overlap and um I think I
[1:26:40] think uh there there were a lot of very
[1:26:42] influential Christians more in the last
[1:26:45] few hundred years that were heavily
[1:26:46] influenced by the Stoics as well and the
[1:26:48] Stoics had this idea of the universe as
[1:26:50] being
[1:26:51] >> uh having its own intelligence um you
[1:26:54] know like the logos which it ties in as
[1:26:56] well. My son actually goes, my
[1:26:58] seven-year-old son goes to a Catholic
[1:27:00] school and uh it's really cool. Like he
[1:27:03] came home one day and he was like five
[1:27:04] or six and he was like, I know what the
[1:27:06] word temptation means, you know, and
[1:27:08] it's just like the the values and the
[1:27:10] things that he's learning. I just
[1:27:11] thought was like really interesting and
[1:27:13] I kind of wondering like what what is he
[1:27:16] learning and symbolism and language that
[1:27:20] is going to be useful for him later on
[1:27:21] in life that um like a non-religious
[1:27:24] school wouldn't be able to teach him. So
[1:27:26] there's a lot of really good values
[1:27:28] there. Um, so in stoicism there's this
[1:27:33] idea of amorati or loving your fate, you
[1:27:35] know, which it sounds like you've
[1:27:37] completely mastered that, you know,
[1:27:38] because you've flipped everything over
[1:27:40] from bullying to injuries as I'm glad it
[1:27:43] happened, you know, like I'm I wouldn't
[1:27:45] have it any other way. Um, when you were
[1:27:48] at your lowest, were you able to tap
[1:27:50] into this acceptance of fate? Uh, were
[1:27:53] you a naturally trusting person or was
[1:27:54] it something you learned over years?
[1:27:56] >> I learned over years. I always thought I
[1:27:57] was in control. It was me who was
[1:28:00] training. It was me who was doing
[1:28:01] everything. Me, me, me, me, me, me.
[1:28:03] That's a fighter, right? You're not part
[1:28:05] of a team. Yeah. Well, you are
[1:28:07] officially because there's people
[1:28:08] helping you. But I listen, I never had
[1:28:10] coaches. I trained I trained submissions
[1:28:12] myself.
[1:28:13] >> I found that out myself. But if I get
[1:28:16] obsessed with something,
[1:28:18] oh, you have no idea. Ask my wife. She
[1:28:20] goes like, "Oh, here we go." You know,
[1:28:22] so she thought with Catholicism for
[1:28:24] instance, oh, this is going to be six
[1:28:25] weeks. She started laughing because
[1:28:26] that's my ADHD as well. If it doesn't
[1:28:28] interest me, interest me, then then it's
[1:28:31] gone pretty fast. But then she I
[1:28:34] suddenly became a different guy and I
[1:28:36] started being way more involved and way
[1:28:38] more things. And then suddenly I asked
[1:28:39] her to marry me for the third time
[1:28:42] because we got married twice already.
[1:28:44] And um
[1:28:46] >> and she immediately I I I I don't
[1:28:48] remember what she said but because but
[1:28:50] the next day I couldn't get a hold of
[1:28:51] her. And then finally she called me back
[1:28:53] uh because I left a message and I go,
[1:28:54] "What were you?" She goes, "I was a
[1:28:56] mass." I go, "You you're what? I was at
[1:28:59] mass." She said, "Yeah, because I I did
[1:29:01] I was baptized but I never did my
[1:29:03] confirmation. So I signed up for our CIA
[1:29:05] class here." So what took a lot of
[1:29:08] explanation for me with her it was just
[1:29:12] seeing me change that immediately wanted
[1:29:15] her
[1:29:16] >> to jump back into the faith with me and
[1:29:18] to do this
[1:29:19] >> and then when we start doing retreats
[1:29:20] you know again I attack things like
[1:29:23] insane like I if I lose for something I
[1:29:26] will never lose like that again that's
[1:29:28] my mindset that's so now actually this
[1:29:31] loss see made me a stronger fighter
[1:29:33] that's how I think
[1:29:34] >> a loss is always for a
[1:29:36] you're not good enough. He was simply
[1:29:37] better. Not because he cut more weight
[1:29:39] or he was doing whatever or he's using
[1:29:41] steroids. No, it's not about any of that
[1:29:43] stuff. It's about just being better, you
[1:29:46] know. And that's how I trained myself
[1:29:47] and then we started. So then I remember
[1:29:50] we had an an um a retreat and four
[1:29:54] months later we came to the retreat and
[1:29:56] they do everything in Latin there and uh
[1:29:58] and I start doing everything in Latin
[1:30:00] with them and everybody was looking at
[1:30:01] me and go like, "What the heck?" I go,
[1:30:04] "Oh, yeah." You know, if you're doing
[1:30:06] it, I need to notice. So, I start, you
[1:30:09] know, I started making the shift to
[1:30:11] completely. And now it's like I said,
[1:30:13] the morning, you know, I every morning
[1:30:16] for the last, I would say 12 years when
[1:30:18] I was really solid. Never missed one,
[1:30:22] you know, never missed the rosary, never
[1:30:23] missed my readings, never missed my
[1:30:24] examination of conscience that I do
[1:30:26] every evening going over the day. What
[1:30:28] did you do wrong? What did you do right?
[1:30:30] How if you did it right, can you make it
[1:30:31] better the next time? you know what did
[1:30:33] what didn't you do but you should have
[1:30:35] done like all these things I go over my
[1:30:37] day how I can fix that and hopefully
[1:30:39] most of the time the next day in the
[1:30:41] morning some other ones pop up from the
[1:30:43] day that I
[1:30:44] >> you know and I work that into my prayers
[1:30:46] and then my readings and all that stuff
[1:30:48] and it just makes me feel really good
[1:30:51] I've since I started doing that my life
[1:30:53] has been really good so why would I stop
[1:30:56] doing it you know and yes there's
[1:30:58] moments that you don't want to do it you
[1:31:00] know but then again discipline It makes
[1:31:02] you do it. Same as my working out. This
[1:31:04] is just working out this muscle. But my
[1:31:06] work I need to have this fit. And that's
[1:31:08] what the Stokes also believe. How can
[1:31:10] you control uh be the person in control
[1:31:13] if you can't control yourself, right? I
[1:31:15] mean, how can you lead if if you don't
[1:31:18] lead yourself? You see, and that's what
[1:31:21] really attracted me also in stoicism.
[1:31:23] And and and that's when I saw, oh, it's
[1:31:25] it's the same. It's we have the same
[1:31:26] principles. Think about it.
[1:31:28] >> Definitely.
[1:31:30] you're and you are your unfair advantage
[1:31:32] is that you are a practitioner through
[1:31:34] and through and I'm assuming that comes
[1:31:36] from just years of uh martial arts and
[1:31:39] training. A lot of people they might
[1:31:41] read stoicism
[1:31:42] >> or read some texts um in the Catholic
[1:31:46] faith and sort of go, "Oh, that's cool.
[1:31:48] That's nice." And then put it down.
[1:31:50] >> But you're a practitioner. You practice.
[1:31:52] What is the value for people listening
[1:31:54] of actually doing the work and
[1:31:56] practicing as opposed to just reading
[1:31:57] about
[1:31:58] >> it's it's the the problem with BF we
[1:32:00] want instant gratification you know so I
[1:32:03] my my my cousin is down there's a lot
[1:32:06] wrong with him start doing a rosary did
[1:32:09] it for a week doesn't work stops with it
[1:32:11] you know no it's the continuation you
[1:32:14] need to keep going keep doing it keep
[1:32:16] doing it yes so and once you keep doing
[1:32:19] it becomes normal it becomes a habit and
[1:32:20] once it's a habit now it's normal to you
[1:32:22] to do it every single day. I don't have
[1:32:24] the time for it. I was laying in bed
[1:32:26] till 8:00, 9:00 in the morning. Not now.
[1:32:28] I wake up at 5 and because otherwise I
[1:32:31] have don't have the time to do
[1:32:32] everything before I go to mass, you
[1:32:34] know. So already working out and the
[1:32:36] working out, I see there's still a
[1:32:38] little bit of weakness in me because if
[1:32:40] I tell myself, oh, I will work out later
[1:32:42] in the day, there might be something
[1:32:44] coming, maybe something I have to do an
[1:32:46] interview or whatever it is that's going
[1:32:48] to steer me away from it and then after
[1:32:49] the interview, I don't want to do it
[1:32:50] anymore. Now to avoid that
[1:32:52] >> I simply do it every day. It's like my I
[1:32:54] invented that lung training device to
[1:32:56] expand your chest so you can put more
[1:32:58] air in your lungs. It's the first thing
[1:32:59] I do. And they say how you do it? Oh,
[1:33:01] I've been doing it for eight years every
[1:33:03] single day.
[1:33:04] >> You miss one? Yes, those I miss once
[1:33:07] maybe 2%.
[1:33:10] >> But that's it. That's but I drive fly to
[1:33:12] Dubai and I didn't you know and I get
[1:33:14] really tired. Okay, today I'm not going
[1:33:16] to do it. But the next morning, first
[1:33:18] thing I do, I pop it in and I start
[1:33:20] doing it again. Do I want to do it with
[1:33:22] a jet lag and all that stuff? No. But I
[1:33:24] do it because I know if I don't do it,
[1:33:26] then the next time not doing it is
[1:33:28] already easier to not do because you get
[1:33:30] you get,
[1:33:32] >> you know, keep the habit. It's what I
[1:33:34] tell people, you know, when you say,
[1:33:35] "Okay, tomorrow." How many times did
[1:33:37] somebody say, "Okay, Monday, I'm going
[1:33:38] to start training again." And and they
[1:33:40] didn't do it. That's 99% of the time.
[1:33:44] All the time.
[1:33:44] >> Yeah. You know, I I say put an hour. You
[1:33:48] say, "Okay, on Monday at 9:00, whatever
[1:33:50] happens, you're going to do it." Oh, but
[1:33:52] now I don't feel so good. But still use
[1:33:54] that hour to maybe do something very
[1:33:56] light. Maybe do stretching, whatever it
[1:33:59] is. Keep that one hour that you said you
[1:34:01] were going to do something and do
[1:34:03] anything that is good for your body. It
[1:34:05] doesn't need to be intense. That's the
[1:34:07] thing we think all the weights and
[1:34:09] everything. I get 40minute workouts,
[1:34:12] >> but my workouts are pretty gnarly. It
[1:34:14] didn't start like that, you know.
[1:34:15] There's no rest with me. Everything is
[1:34:16] supersets. It goes back for back for
[1:34:18] back for back for next four exercises.
[1:34:20] Da da da da da. Next four two exercises
[1:34:23] >> constantly. No rest. Zero. Do that. Like
[1:34:26] I do five breaths. One, two, and five.
[1:34:29] Boom. Next exercise. That's what I'm at
[1:34:31] now. You see? I want to see if I can
[1:34:33] really cut all breaths out. You see,
[1:34:36] that's my goal to make it a 35 minute
[1:34:39] workout or 30 pics or whatever it is
[1:34:42] because it's seconds. But you see,
[1:34:44] there's always needs to be goal. You can
[1:34:45] always improve on something. And then
[1:34:47] when there's a day that, oh, this is
[1:34:49] really hurting, I'll do something else,
[1:34:51] but I keep that hour so I don't break
[1:34:55] that habit and and then stretch for an
[1:34:57] hour. Whatever I do, I'm I'm I'm doing
[1:35:00] it, you know. And that's the trick. And
[1:35:02] it's hard. It is really hard because
[1:35:04] there's many times I don't want to do
[1:35:06] it. But if I do it now, I know that I'm
[1:35:08] not only get physically stronger, also
[1:35:10] mentally stronger because now I'm doing
[1:35:13] something I really don't want to do. And
[1:35:15] that is a really good thing for every
[1:35:18] time, every day, you should do something
[1:35:19] that you don't want to do. I tell
[1:35:20] people,
[1:35:21] >> oh, I really don't want to do it. Do it
[1:35:23] now. It's like problems problems arise
[1:35:25] problem. Oh, procrastinate, right? Oh,
[1:35:27] we'll do it next week. No, because now
[1:35:29] it's over your head the whole time. The
[1:35:31] whole time. Fix it now. So it's not a
[1:35:33] problem anymore. You can let it go and
[1:35:35] the problem is gone because you're going
[1:35:38] to deal the same with it in three weeks
[1:35:40] from now or a year from now than you do
[1:35:42] now. It's like drinking. It will always
[1:35:44] go wrong. It will always go wrong. There
[1:35:48] is no upside.
[1:35:49] >> So whatever you want to do, why don't
[1:35:51] you do it now?
[1:35:53] >> Because you're going to have to do it
[1:35:54] eventually. So why not getting all these
[1:35:58] years that you're wasting now? Why don't
[1:35:59] I do it now? So these years are going to
[1:36:01] be fruitful years for me. You see that's
[1:36:04] why I don't get that's the weakness that
[1:36:06] we have right now. And and discipline is
[1:36:08] the only way to get out of there. Get
[1:36:11] out of there to simply do what you tell.
[1:36:13] The the biggest line I use is don't lie
[1:36:16] to yourself.
[1:36:18] You don't lie to yourself. You're good
[1:36:21] in everything. Whoa. It's that easy. No,
[1:36:24] because you lie to yourself all day. Oh,
[1:36:26] I don't lie to myself. So, okay. And
[1:36:28] then I start. How many times did you say
[1:36:30] you were going to train again? Didn't do
[1:36:31] it. Boom. That's a lie. Today I'm Oh,
[1:36:33] today I'm not going to drink. Oh, you
[1:36:34] did it again. That's a lie. Every time
[1:36:37] not going to take sugar or less sugar,
[1:36:38] whatever it is. That's another thing.
[1:36:40] People go like, "Oh, I I want to cut out
[1:36:42] sugar. Okay, tomorrow I'm not going to
[1:36:43] eat sugar anymore." No, you see how I
[1:36:45] work is different.
[1:36:47] >> Let's say I would take 10 grams of sugar
[1:36:49] a day, like I'm just giving an example.
[1:36:52] Tomorrow I'm going to take nine grams.
[1:36:54] >> I'm going to do that for a whole week or
[1:36:56] 10 days and I'm going to go to eight
[1:36:57] grams. And then suddenly in 10 weeks
[1:37:00] that habit that you had, bad habit that
[1:37:02] you had is gone and you don't even
[1:37:04] notice it because you very slowly but
[1:37:07] surely you went down in the sugar. But
[1:37:10] cutting it out right away, that's not a
[1:37:12] good thing to do. Now it's difficult.
[1:37:14] You cannot do this with alcohol and
[1:37:15] drugs. Of course, you can't alcohol
[1:37:18] today. I'm going to only drink five
[1:37:19] beers. It's not going to work. You know,
[1:37:21] you're going to have to cut that out.
[1:37:22] There are certain vices that there's
[1:37:24] immediately got to stop because they
[1:37:25] trigger that feeling again and then you
[1:37:27] want more of it and if you had a bad day
[1:37:29] or a good day because we grab every
[1:37:31] every excuse we have. Oh, today was a
[1:37:33] great day. I deserve a drink. Oh, today
[1:37:35] take man. Okay, I need a drink. You see,
[1:37:38] we always find reason in our warped
[1:37:40] minds to still do that stupid vice. No.
[1:37:43] And then you find out that once you
[1:37:45] completely cut it out, it's so much
[1:37:48] easier. You have so much more free. You
[1:37:51] have so much more time waking up at 5.
[1:37:53] Like I said, all the things I do before
[1:37:55] 9:00 that they do people in a day
[1:37:58] almost. Well, now a lot of people, not
[1:38:01] everybody. There's people like you as
[1:38:02] well and who actually want to work on
[1:38:04] the job.
[1:38:05] >> You see, it's it's simple and it's all
[1:38:07] the truth, but to break it, it's a hard
[1:38:10] thing to do.
[1:38:11] >> Yeah. Uh I'm I'm mindful of your time as
[1:38:14] well. So, um we've been going an hour
[1:38:16] and 40 minutes.
[1:38:18] Um the the impact that you've had is is
[1:38:20] truly incredible. Just to give you one
[1:38:22] example, I've got a friend Joel, right?
[1:38:24] and uh he's one of my best friends here
[1:38:26] and I'm in Wales in UK and he was
[1:38:29] bullied growing up and he had asthma and
[1:38:32] he has listened to your striking you
[1:38:36] know your take where you kind of give
[1:38:37] the combinations thousands of times you
[1:38:40] know and that he's now a purple belt in
[1:38:42] jiu-jitsu and you know you've completely
[1:38:44] changed his life and you would never
[1:38:46] have heard about Joel but there's
[1:38:47] there's thousands of people just like
[1:38:50] this everywhere that have been impacted
[1:38:52] by your story So, um,
[1:38:55] >> it's cool, man. I'm having
[1:38:57] >> I'm very happy now. I'm in a good place
[1:38:59] because I got myself so much more under
[1:39:01] control and and I'm not like everything
[1:39:04] we're talking about, it's not like I got
[1:39:06] everything to the tea. Trust me, you
[1:39:07] know, we'll we're all fall and we all go
[1:39:10] and and from the 4th of July, I drink a
[1:39:12] bunch of beers,
[1:39:13] >> you see. And then I go like ah and book
[1:39:16] back on the wagon, you know, because but
[1:39:18] it was the 4th of July was the
[1:39:19] neighbors. It was were seven hours
[1:39:21] there. It's like all the excuses. I
[1:39:23] know. But you see, sometimes you lose
[1:39:26] it, you know, but then it's all about
[1:39:28] right away jump back on again. No. And
[1:39:30] saying the no thing. So, uh, yeah, it's
[1:39:33] all a struggle. Don't don't look at me
[1:39:34] and think, "Oh my god, this guy got him
[1:39:36] under control. I'm working on that. I
[1:39:38] hope I attain it." You know, that's a
[1:39:40] hard thing to do. It's like going to
[1:39:42] heaven, like being a saint. Good luck
[1:39:44] with that. You know,
[1:39:45] >> that's what I also realized when I got
[1:39:47] back to the faith. Say, "Oh, I'm going
[1:39:48] to be a saint." Yeah. Because that's
[1:39:51] like the Stoics. they have everything
[1:39:52] completely under control.
[1:39:54] >> Senica said that he isn't he's he's in
[1:39:57] the hospital bed with us all healing and
[1:39:59] sharing what works for him, you know,
[1:40:01] and I think I trust people that are on
[1:40:03] the path than people that have said
[1:40:04] they've completed life. I'm a little bit
[1:40:07] suspicious of people that claim to have
[1:40:09] achieved like this permanent enlightened
[1:40:11] state. Not that it's not impossible, but
[1:40:13] um I love the fact that you're a
[1:40:14] practitioner.
[1:40:16] >> Where are you most active right now?
[1:40:17] Like where if people want to keep
[1:40:19] learning from you, where where's the
[1:40:20] best place? have been recently well
[1:40:22] recently I would say like six weeks ago
[1:40:24] or something I really started with
[1:40:26] posting videos out there all what we're
[1:40:28] talking about right now and these are
[1:40:30] all problems that I attack
[1:40:31] >> that I the way I attacked it myself so I
[1:40:35] tell them I said listen this is what
[1:40:36] worked for me and I was an insane guy
[1:40:39] but if it works for me the chances are
[1:40:41] really good that really high that it's
[1:40:44] going to work for you as well so I was
[1:40:46] in Holland last week visiting my family
[1:40:49] and the amount of times I got stopped on
[1:40:51] the planes and everywhere, you know, the
[1:40:53] whole time. And I'm telling you, it was
[1:40:55] 80 85%
[1:40:57] everybody was like, "Dude, I love those
[1:40:59] videos you're doing right now." I mean,
[1:41:01] it helped me so much because it's the
[1:41:03] problems that we just talked about, you
[1:41:05] know, and I just throw it out there and
[1:41:07] I made a little clips so they don't get
[1:41:10] the it's not like you there's too many
[1:41:12] trees, you can't see the forest anymore,
[1:41:14] you know? It's like the one of those you
[1:41:16] give them in doses every time and it's
[1:41:18] just like one or two minute clips no
[1:41:20] longer
[1:41:21] >> and then from that moment on
[1:41:23] >> you know then then it can actually help
[1:41:25] you but if you overflow with it it's not
[1:41:27] going to work because we will try to fix
[1:41:29] every problem we have pick the biggest
[1:41:31] one like for me I I can count on one
[1:41:34] hand how many times I did drugs without
[1:41:36] being drunk so I knew for me alcohol was
[1:41:39] the biggest one [clears throat]
[1:41:40] >> if I alcohol that will automatically
[1:41:42] cancel the drugs
[1:41:44] >> boom Okay, good. That worked. Okay,
[1:41:46] let's work on another thing. And pick
[1:41:48] one. Pick one vice that you have. Pick
[1:41:50] the biggest one. I would say work on
[1:41:52] that one because once you attack the
[1:41:54] really big vice, you know you're capable
[1:41:57] to and and and you you succeed with it.
[1:41:59] You know you're capable of doing that.
[1:42:01] And since that was the biggest one, the
[1:42:02] rest is going to be a walk in the park.
[1:42:04] Never think it's going to be a walk in
[1:42:06] the park because that's but that's what
[1:42:08] the devil wants, right? That's when they
[1:42:09] get inside your head and you start
[1:42:10] getting weak again. You are never under
[1:42:12] control. M
[1:42:13] >> that's what I think never whatever
[1:42:15] happens.
[1:42:16] >> Yeah.
[1:42:16] >> The the times that I fought in um that I
[1:42:20] tried handle under control that was the
[1:42:22] moment that you lose. You know that's uh
[1:42:25] that's that's that's when you have a
[1:42:26] problem. No, always attack it as hard as
[1:42:30] you can. And even if you don't want to
[1:42:32] you're going to have to do it. If it's a
[1:42:33] problem that you can postpone and it
[1:42:35] will be there constantly. You're going
[1:42:36] to have to fix it. Fix it today.
[1:42:40] >> If not today, tomorrow
[1:42:42] >> get rid of that problem. So it's not a
[1:42:43] problem anymore. You can live on your
[1:42:44] life otherwise it'll keep hanging over
[1:42:46] your head and it's going to drive you
[1:42:48] nuts. You know that's like drinking like
[1:42:50] I said you know you know you're going to
[1:42:51] have to stop. You can't live like that
[1:42:54] because your life is going to go down.
[1:42:55] So why not now? That's the thing. Yeah.
[1:42:57] But I want one more time and tomorrow
[1:42:59] there's my neighbors now there. They
[1:43:01] smoke after his birthday which going to
[1:43:03] be in Vegas next week. When I come back
[1:43:05] this is the last three months I've been
[1:43:06] saying it. That's when I stop smoking uh
[1:43:10] nicotine. uh developments
[1:43:13] >> I go why don't you do it now I mean
[1:43:16] you're going to do it anyway what about
[1:43:18] getting three months extra health in you
[1:43:20] you know or or go these nicotine things
[1:43:23] you know at least nicotine is actually
[1:43:25] now they we found out it's really good
[1:43:27] for you you know now again don't overdo
[1:43:29] it this is the thing that I said this
[1:43:31] morning
[1:43:32] >> in the morning I pop one in I do with my
[1:43:33] prayers and then normally when I walk
[1:43:35] the dog and today was the moment that I
[1:43:37] told my yes yesterday to me no before I
[1:43:40] go to church I'm not going to do it
[1:43:41] anymore. I just won and then you know
[1:43:44] fight everything temperance because
[1:43:46] otherwise becomes easy to pop these
[1:43:48] things in and then you start with like a
[1:43:50] 4 milligram. Oh no, you start with eight
[1:43:52] but you pop just more in. I go like
[1:43:56] why don't I go to a six and then you
[1:43:58] realize hey six not making any
[1:43:59] difference. Okay let's go to a four, you
[1:44:01] know. And every time you take a little
[1:44:03] bit less, you know, cut it right away
[1:44:05] out. Yeah, then you're going to probably
[1:44:07] feel it. But if you go little by little,
[1:44:09] everything down. This is how I worked
[1:44:11] out as well.
[1:44:12] >> You know, I did 15 rounds on the back of
[1:44:14] one minute,
[1:44:15] >> but my way, the hardest way you can get,
[1:44:18] right? Every punch is that to freaking
[1:44:20] go through the bag and every kick is as
[1:44:22] hard as you can.
[1:44:23] >> One minute gets you really tired. 15
[1:44:25] rounds of that. Once I complete 15
[1:44:28] rounds, the next week is going to be 1
[1:44:30] minute and 5 seconds and 55 seconds
[1:44:33] rest. Next week when I can do this
[1:44:35] again, 1 minute 10 seconds, 50 seconds
[1:44:37] rest. Every time I increase my time by 5
[1:44:40] seconds and I take 5 seconds away from
[1:44:41] my resting time and then just before the
[1:44:44] fight, I can do 15 rounds of one and a
[1:44:46] half minutes with 30 seconds break.
[1:44:49] Dude, you're going to be in such a crazy
[1:44:50] shape. Now, if I would have done that
[1:44:52] the first week in training or two weeks,
[1:44:54] I overtrained. There's no way the body
[1:44:56] can adjust to that. But if you gradually
[1:44:59] increase that time with seconds
[1:45:02] over 10 weeks, it becomes long, you
[1:45:05] know, and that suddenly you're there,
[1:45:06] you know, don't make it a race, make it
[1:45:08] a journey. I always say, you know,
[1:45:10] relax, you know.
[1:45:11] >> Yeah.
[1:45:12] >> So, and that's the same advice.
[1:45:13] >> That's
[1:45:14] >> But again, like I call those you you
[1:45:16] have to stop. You cannot gradually go
[1:45:18] down. That will always go wrong. I don't
[1:45:20] know one person who did it like that.
[1:45:22] It's impossible.
[1:45:25] I I promise there's going to be people
[1:45:27] listening that feel personally uh seen
[1:45:30] and they've got this thing, this vice
[1:45:32] that they feel like they're being called
[1:45:34] out on by you. And I hope so, you know,
[1:45:36] I hope that I hope that you're taking
[1:45:38] away. I think you everyone has this
[1:45:40] first thing to tackle, right? That first
[1:45:43] >> thing to overcome. And I think you're
[1:45:44] stirring it up for people listening. And
[1:45:47] >> um yeah, I think
[1:45:48] >> Yeah. I don't know. I have a friend like
[1:45:49] this and he called me and he was he was
[1:45:52] almost because he's a very good
[1:45:53] Christian also
[1:45:54] >> and he uh and there was this overweight
[1:45:56] guy on a you know in a wheelchair that
[1:45:58] is driving because he can't even walk
[1:46:00] anymore and he asked him hey sir could
[1:46:01] you please get me those and they were
[1:46:03] like candies like Snickers or something
[1:46:05] because he couldn't reach him and my
[1:46:06] buddy goes like you sure you want to do
[1:46:08] that because he's that big and he goes
[1:46:11] what why I said well look at yourself he
[1:46:13] said and then the guy get angry so he
[1:46:16] grabbed the sneakers and he says okay
[1:46:17] well then take it and he just walked
[1:46:19] away. And he calls me. He says, "Dude, I
[1:46:21] feel so bad. Why did I do that?" I go,
[1:46:24] "Dude, you did it out. I know you. You
[1:46:25] did it out of love." I said, "But think
[1:46:27] about this. This guy's going to go home
[1:46:29] and your words are going to stick with
[1:46:31] him." Who knows? Your words change this
[1:46:34] guy now because now he's going to go,
[1:46:38] "Okay, if I'm honest, he is right."
[1:46:41] Right? If he starts thinking like that,
[1:46:43] maybe he's going to flip his life
[1:46:44] around. And I know him. He not doesn't
[1:46:47] do it for He just says you you don't
[1:46:50] want to do it, you're going to die,
[1:46:51] dude. I mean, that's the reason, you
[1:46:54] see. So,
[1:46:55] yeah.
[1:46:56] >> Yeah.
[1:46:58] Yeah. Um Yes. There's so many takeaways
[1:47:01] for me as well. Like I I really like
[1:47:03] hearing your perspective and I I'm
[1:47:05] taking away a lot from this. Um, I'll
[1:47:08] provide a link uh to the the resources
[1:47:11] that you've mentioned and there'll be
[1:47:13] like detailed show notes as well uh with
[1:47:16] the different topics that you've
[1:47:17] covered. Um, yeah, I thank you so much
[1:47:21] for all of the work that you're doing
[1:47:22] and the honesty and the standards that
[1:47:23] you're keeping for people and leading
[1:47:26] with love even though um I think like
[1:47:29] it's a kind of a like a a love that
[1:47:31] comes from strength um rather than sort
[1:47:34] of like a overly compassionate way. And
[1:47:36] I think the world needs that right now.
[1:47:37] So Bass, I really appreciate your time
[1:47:40] and um yeah, thanks. Thanks for the
[1:47:42] conversation. It was really good.
[1:47:43] >> Appreciate it.