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Inspiration

Musonius Rufus and the Gap Between Knowing and Doing

Jon Brooks
Jon Brooks
Oct 16, 2026
9 min read

From The Stoic Handbook | Jon Brooks

Watch · 8

Picture a man in his sixties, chained with thousands of other prisoners, swinging a pickaxe through solid rock on the Isthmus of Corinth because an emperor wanted a canal for his own glory. That is the scene Jon Brooks of The Stoic Handbook opens with in his video on Musonius Rufus, the first-century Roman Stoic who taught Epictetus and who, Brooks argues, set the standard that Stoicism is only real when it shows up in conduct. Brooks walks through Musonius's life, three of his teachings (women's right to study philosophy, the test of practice, and the training of body and mind together), the limits of his views, and a handful of modest exercises for anyone who has read the books and still loses their temper over something small. The core question he puts to the viewer is blunt: reading has a place, but what happens afterwards is the whole point.

Read · 7 sections

Who Was the Stoic Teacher Behind Epictetus?

Musonius Rufus was a Roman equestrian, born around 30 AD, and by his thirties he was among the most respected Stoic teachers in Rome. Brooks cites the orator Dio of Prusa, who said Musonius enjoyed a reputation greater than any one man had attained for generations. Later writers called him the Roman Socrates, and Brooks thinks the comparison holds up: neither man wrote his own works down, both drew followers through moral example, both were persecuted by the state, and both put practice ahead of theory.

The most striking fact in Brooks's account is the lineage. Epictetus, a former slave who became the author of the Discourses and the Enchiridion, sat at Musonius's feet during a window when Musonius was allowed back in Rome. Brooks traces the dichotomy of control, the idea that our judgments about things disturb us more than the things themselves, and the Marcus Aurelius passages that drew on Epictetus back to that classroom. Musonius, in other words, is the through line for a whole generation of Stoic thought.

So why is he so little known? Brooks says it comes down to luck, specifically to the question of who wrote things down. Epictetus was recorded by Arrian, a best-selling author and public official whose celebrity helped those teachings survive. Musonius had no such advocate. His teachings survived only as excerpts, and there was no English translation until 1947. "He's not forgotten because his ideas weren't good," Brooks says. "He's forgotten because his student wasn't famous enough." The comparison he draws is pointed: what would we know of Socrates if Plato had never written?

How Did Musonius Turn an Exile Into a School?

Brooks recounts two exiles. In 65 AD, Nero's purge after the Pisonian Conspiracy sent Musonius to Gyaros, a barren rock in the Aegean that Brooks says the Romans called the Alcatraz of the Mediterranean. Musonius had not been part of the plot. He was exiled for teaching philosophy, which Nero found inconvenient. According to Brooks, Musonius found a spring on a rock the Romans considered waterless, farmed the land, and drew students who crossed the sea to study with him. Brooks's summary is the one that sticks: he turned a prison into a school.

The lecture Brooks quotes on this, which he names "That Exile Is Not an Evil," contains the line that anchors the whole episode: "Why should anyone who is not devoid of understanding be oppressed by exile? It does not in any way deprive us of water, earth, air, or the sun." Brooks reads it as a discipline rather than a consolation. Musonius did not pretend that things had not been taken away. He refused to let what had been taken count for more than what remained.

Later, Nero put Musonius to work on a vanity project, a canal through the Isthmus of Corinth dug by thousands of chained laborers. The philosopher Demetrius came to visit and was distressed by the sight. Brooks quotes the exchange as Philostratus recorded it: "Does this pain you, Demetrius, to see me digging through the Isthmus for Greece? What would you have felt if you had seen me playing the lyre like Nero?" Brooks's point is that the man with the pickaxe was still the most dangerous person in the conversation, because his values had not been chained.

"Does this pain you, Demetrius, to see me digging through the Isthmus for Greece? What would you have felt if you had seen me playing the lyre like Nero?" (Musonius Rufus, as recorded by Philostratus and quoted by Jon Brooks, around 5:33)

Brooks also describes the year of the four emperors in 69 AD, when Musonius, back from exile, joined a peace embassy that walked into the camp of an advancing army to lecture on the blessings of peace. Brooks reads Tacitus's account, which describes many soldiers laughing at him and a few ready to knock him down. Brooks calls it untimely wisdom: the right idea delivered in the wrong room. He reads the episode as proof of commitment rather than caution, and notes that even Vespasian, who banished the other philosophers from Rome in 71 AD, hesitated before exiling Musonius.

Should Women Study Philosophy?

This is the teaching Brooks calls radical, and it deserves to be taken seriously in its own setting. In first-century Rome, women could not vote or hold office and rarely received more than basic literacy. Brooks points to Seneca the Elder, a contemporary of Musonius, who forbade his own wife from studying philosophy. Against that background, Musonius argued that women should study philosophy too, on the grounds that reason is a gift from the gods and that the capacity for virtue is not sex-specific.

Brooks is careful about the limits. He says plainly that Musonius "wasn't a modern feminist." Musonius, as Brooks reads him, still held that men should take on the heavier tasks, and the argument was about access to moral education rather than full equality in public life. Brooks's view is that the teaching is significant precisely because it crosses a line that most of his contemporaries would not, while still falling short of what a modern reader might hope for. Both things can be true, and he thinks an honest reader should hold both.

How Does Practice Test What You Know?

The most useful section of the video is about the gap between knowing and doing. Brooks sets up Musonius's comparison of two physicians from his Lecture V, which he links in the video description. Imagine two doctors. One is a brilliant speaker with no clinical experience who can explain the theory of disease in beautiful terms. The other is an ordinary practitioner who has treated patients and knows how to heal them. Which do you trust with your body?

Brooks's answer, and Musonius's, is the second. A philosopher who can explain the Stoic virtues but cannot apply them under pressure is like the speaker with no patients. The knowledge is real but unproven. Brooks gives the familiar example of someone who can recite the dichotomy of control and still loses their temper over a minor slight. The test is not whether the idea sounds right in the study. The test is what you do when the situation arrives uninvited.

This is where the viewer's own life becomes the laboratory. Brooks frames practice as the way knowledge becomes trustworthy, and he insists that reading alone does not complete the job. The philosophy is meant to change decisions. If it doesn't, the reading has not yet done what it was for.

What Does Training Body and Mind Together Mean?

In Lecture VI, which Brooks also points viewers toward, Musonius treats training as something that involves the body as well as the intellect. Brooks says Musonius saw theory and practice as hand in hand, with the aim of aligning what a person understands with how they act and how they hold themselves in the world. The point is not to memorize doctrine and then wait for the right mood. It is to rehearse the conduct until it becomes habitual, the way a physician's skill is built through repeated contact with patients.

Brooks also warns against a particular distortion of modern self-improvement: the habit of punishing yourself in order to become better. He suggests that this approach misreads Musonius. Practice, in his telling, is patient and repetitive, closer to training than to self-punishment. The aim is excellence of character, and mistakes are data for the next repetition rather than occasions for contempt.

What Are Three Practices to Try This Week?

Brooks ends with modest, concrete suggestions rather than a grand program. The first is to take one Musonius teaching and test it against a single ordinary decision in the coming week, then notice what happened. The second is to watch yourself as you act, rather than only as you plan to act, and to ask whether your conduct matched the idea you claim to hold. The third is to read Musonius directly, using the free online translation Brooks links in the video description, and to keep reading as a way of preparing for the next test rather than as the finish line.

Each of these is small by design. Brooks is not promising transformation. He is asking for a smaller, more honest question: after you have learned something good, what changed in how you behaved on a difficult afternoon? That is the standard Musonius set, and it is the one that a rock in the Aegean and a canal on the Isthmus both made visible.

Where to go from here

Start with the excerpts. Read Musonius's Lecture V on the two physicians and Lecture VI on training, both available through the links Brooks gives in the video's description, and pick one passage to test against a single real decision this week. Then watch the full video for its treatment of the exile lecture and the Tacitus account of the embassy, both of which carry more context than a summary can. The question Brooks leaves you with is not whether Musonius was right. It is whether you are willing to find out, one ordinary afternoon at a time.

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Transcript

[0:00] Picture a 60-year-old philosopher. Not

[0:03] the marble bust kind, but flesh and

[0:05] blood. He's chained to 6,000 other

[0:09] slaves.

[0:10] He has a pickaxe and he's digging for an

[0:12] emperor that exiled him.

[0:15] A friend finds him expecting to see a

[0:17] broken man.

[0:20] When he gets close, the philosopher

[0:21] looks up and says to his friend,

[0:24] "Does this pain you, Demetrius, to see

[0:26] me digging through the Isthmus for

[0:27] Greece? [music]

[0:29] What would you have felt if you had seen

[0:30] me playing the lyre like Nero?" This

[0:33] philosopher's name was Gaius Musonius

[0:35] [music]

[0:36] Rufus, arguably the most important

[0:39] philosopher you've never heard of. He

[0:41] was the teacher of Epictetus. He was

[0:43] exiled three times by three different

[0:46] emperors, [music]

[0:47] and when you understand who he was,

[0:49] almost everything you thought you knew

[0:51] about Stoicism suddenly changes.

[0:54] I'm John from The Stoic Handbook, and in

[0:56] this episode, I'm [music] going to tell

[0:58] you who Musonius Rufus was. I'll give

[1:01] you three of his teachings, one of them

[1:02] is very radical, and give [music] you a

[1:04] practice that you can try this week.

[1:07] Let's start with who he was. Musonius

[1:09] Rufus was a Roman equestrian born about

[1:13] 30 AD, and by the age of 30, he was

[1:16] already one of the most important Stoic

[1:18] teachers in Rome. [music] Dio of Prusa

[1:20] said that he enjoyed a reputation

[1:23] greater than any one man had attained

[1:26] for generations.

[1:27] Later writers called him the Roman

[1:29] Socrates. This comparison between

[1:32] Musonius Rufus and Socrates isn't just

[1:34] lazy flattery. Neither of these

[1:36] individuals wrote things down, but had

[1:38] their works preserved by students. Both

[1:41] of them had a following and were

[1:43] respected. Both were persecuted by the

[1:45] state. Both valued practice over theory.

[1:49] Both drew devoted followers by sheer

[1:52] moral example. And the thing that a lot

[1:55] of Stoic content skips, and something

[1:56] I've already briefly mentioned [music]

[1:58] is that Musonius Rufus was Epictetus'

[2:01] teacher. Epictetus, who was once a slave

[2:03] and who went on to create [music] the

[2:05] Discourses and the Enchiridion, who

[2:07] Marcus Aurelius often quotes and

[2:09] paraphrases, [music]

[2:10] Epictetus who went on to inspire

[2:13] cognitive behavioral therapy, was once

[2:15] [music] a slave and as a slave sat at

[2:17] the very feet of Musonius Rufus.

[2:20] Musonius Rufus is the through line for

[2:23] this entire [music]

[2:24] inspired generation of Stoic thought.

[2:27] So, the question is why have we not

[2:29] heard much about Musonius Rufus? This

[2:32] actually comes down to bad luck. See,

[2:34] with Epictetus, [music] his student

[2:36] Arrian wrote down the teachings of

[2:39] Epictetus, but there are some things to

[2:40] know about Arrian. Arrian was a

[2:42] best-selling author. Arrian was a public

[2:45] council.

[2:46] A respected figure. He was basically a

[2:48] celebrity, and the celebrity status of

[2:50] Arrian helped Epictetus' ideas survive

[2:54] for 2,000 years.

[2:56] But, who did [music] Musonius Rufus

[2:57] have? Well, he had some uncle called

[2:59] Bussius, and very little is known about

[3:01] him. The teachings of Musonius Rufus

[3:03] only survived as excerpts,

[3:05] >> [music]

[3:05] >> and there was no English translation

[3:06] until 1947.

[3:08] So, he's not forgotten because his ideas

[3:10] weren't good. He's forgotten because his

[3:12] student [music] wasn't famous enough.

[3:14] It's like Socrates not having a Plato or

[3:16] a Xenophon [music] following him.

[3:18] What would we know about Socrates now?

[3:20] Now, I'd like to take you on a little

[3:22] visual journey about Musonius Rufus'

[3:25] first exile. In 65 AD, Nero conducted a

[3:29] purge. He called it the Pisonian

[3:32] Conspiracy.

[3:34] Hundreds of people were killed. Many

[3:37] forced [music]

[3:37] to suicide or exiled. Musonius wasn't

[3:40] part of the plot, but he was exiled. He

[3:43] was exiled for the crime of teaching

[3:45] philosophy, and Nero found this

[3:48] inconvenient.

[3:50] His destination was an island called

[3:52] Gyaros, a rock in the middle of the

[3:54] Aegean. The Romans called it, and this

[3:56] is a direct quote, "The Alcatraz of the

[3:59] Mediterranean."

[4:02] And here's what he did on that rock.

[4:04] He found a spring of fresh water on that

[4:07] rock. The Romans said that this place

[4:09] was waterless. [music]

[4:11] He farmed the rock, and students

[4:12] traveled across the Aegean to study with

[4:15] him.

[4:16] Musonius Rufus transformed a prison into

[4:19] a school.

[4:22] He later wrote an entire lecture called

[4:24] "That Exile Is Not an Evil."

[4:27] Here's a line from it. "Why should

[4:29] anyone who is not devoid of

[4:30] understanding be oppressed by exile?

[4:32] [music]

[4:33] It does not in any way deprive us of

[4:35] water, earth, air, or the sun."

[4:38] Discourse 9. Think about this for a

[4:40] second. [music] Musonius Rufus was sent

[4:41] to the worst place in the empire, and he

[4:43] transformed it into the most interesting

[4:45] [music] place.

[4:47] He didn't do this by pretending that

[4:49] everything was fine, pretending that

[4:51] things hadn't been taken from him.

[4:53] >> [music]

[4:53] >> What he did do is not allow the things

[4:55] that had been taken from him matter more

[4:58] than the things he still had.

[5:00] A couple of years into Musonius's exile,

[5:03] [music]

[5:03] Emperor Nero had a vanity project. A

[5:06] canal through the Isthmus of Corinth.

[5:08] 6,000 slaves chained together [music]

[5:11] digging through solid rock for the

[5:12] emperor's glory, and Musonius was one of

[5:15] them.

[5:16] This is where the line from the opening

[5:18] of this episode [music] comes from.

[5:20] Philostratus wrote it down. A fellow

[5:22] philosopher called Demetrius visits

[5:24] Musonius at the canal and is devastated

[5:26] [music] to see him like this. Musonius

[5:28] doesn't miss a beat. Mid-swing, pickax

[5:30] in hand, he says, "Does this pain you to

[5:33] [music] see me digging? What would you

[5:34] have felt if you had seen me playing the

[5:36] lyre like Nero?"

[5:38] That's the man, chained, digging, and

[5:41] still the most dangerous person in this

[5:43] conversation.

[5:44] December 69 AD.

[5:47] Rome is in civil war, the year of the

[5:49] four emperors, a succession crisis that

[5:52] killed tens of thousands.

[5:54] >> [music]

[5:54] >> Vespasian's army is marching on the

[5:56] city, and Rome is about to be taken by

[5:58] force. Musonius has just returned

[6:00] [music] from exile, and he makes what

[6:02] is, on paper, one of the stupidest

[6:05] decisions in the history of philosophy.

[6:07] He joins a peace embassy. He marches

[6:10] towards an approaching army.

[6:12] He walks into the armed camp of an

[6:14] advancing army, and lectures them on the

[6:17] blessings of peace and the dangers

[6:19] [music] of war.

[6:21] Tacitus, who wrote the whole thing down,

[6:23] has one sentence about this that I want

[6:25] to read for you now, word for word.

[6:26] >> [music]

[6:27] >> He said, "Many of them laughed in his

[6:29] face. More still found him tedious, and

[6:32] a few were even ready to knock him down

[6:34] and stamp on him."

[6:36] Tacitus had a phrase for this, which is

[6:38] translated as untimely wisdom. The right

[6:41] idea, but in the wrong room. Musonius

[6:44] almost got lynched and potentially

[6:45] killed for his approach here. But,

[6:48] that's fine. Musonius wasn't known for

[6:50] being very careful. He was known for

[6:52] being committed.

[6:54] In 71 AD, Vespasian banished all

[6:57] philosophers from Rome.

[6:59] All of them except Musonius.

[7:02] That's what his reputation had become.

[7:05] Even the emperor who wanted him gone

[7:07] didn't want to lose him.

[7:09] Eventually, Vespasian exiled him anyway,

[7:11] but the hesitation tells you what he was

[7:13] dealing with.

[7:15] During the narrow window of Musonius's

[7:17] return to Rome, something extraordinary

[7:20] happened. A slave called Epictetus,

[7:22] owned by one of Nero's administrative

[7:25] secretaries, was permitted to [music]

[7:26] attend Musonius's lectures. That slave

[7:29] went on to become the most influential

[7:31] [music] Stoic philosopher in history.

[7:34] Everything you've ever heard about the

[7:36] dichotomy of control, everything Marcus

[7:38] Aurelius absorbed from Epictetus's

[7:40] discourses, the line that became [music]

[7:42] the foundation stone of modern CBT. It

[7:45] is not things that disturb us, but our

[7:47] judgments about things. All of it came

[7:50] through one man.

[7:52] And Musonius Rufus taught that man.

[7:56] Okay, so this is the life of Musonius

[7:58] Rufus. It's dramatic, yes, but it's not

[8:00] about his survival stories. What's

[8:03] important is what he taught while he was

[8:06] surviving. I'm going to give you three

[8:08] teachings [music] now. One of them is

[8:09] radical. One of them will call you out.

[8:11] And one of them will change how you

[8:12] think about self-improvement.

[8:14] Okay, so let's imagine Rome in the first

[8:17] century. Women can't vote. They can't

[8:19] hold office. Rarely get more than basic

[8:21] literacy. Seneca the Elder, who's a

[8:24] contemporary of Musonius, forbade his

[8:26] own wife from studying philosophy.

[8:28] That's the water Musonius Rufus is

[8:30] swimming in.

[8:31] And into that world, Musonius gives two

[8:33] lectures [music] back-to-back, Discourse

[8:35] 3 and Discourse 4. They're the most

[8:38] sustained argument for women's

[8:40] philosophical education that survives

[8:42] from the entire ancient world.

[8:46] In Discourse 3,

[8:47] he says,

[8:49] "Women, as well as men, have received

[8:51] from the gods the gift of reason. Not

[8:54] men alone, but women, too, have a

[8:56] natural inclination toward virtue and a

[8:58] capacity [music]

[8:59] for acquiring." And the line that stops

[9:03] you, "If, then, men and women are born

[9:06] with the same virtues, the same type of

[9:08] training and education must, of

[9:10] necessity, befit both men

[9:12] >> [music]

[9:12] >> and women."

[9:14] Now, I want to be honest with you here,

[9:15] because this is the kind of thing that

[9:16] gets oversold online. Musonius Rufus

[9:19] wasn't a modern feminist.

[9:22] Martha Nussbaum Martha Nussbaum has a

[9:25] chapter called The Incomplete Feminism

[9:27] of Musonius Rufus.

[9:29] Musonius Rufus wasn't trying to rewrite

[9:31] Roman law. He still mainly addressed

[9:34] husbands and fathers and men. He still

[9:36] thought that men did the heavier tasks

[9:38] at the time

[9:39] in society. [music]

[9:40] But in 60 AD standing in front of a

[9:43] Roman audience arguing that a daughter

[9:46] had the same right to an education as a

[9:49] son was radical and definitely set him

[9:52] apart. It's crazy how Musonius Rufus,

[9:54] Epictetus' teacher, was making these

[9:57] claims when even later on societies were

[10:00] going backwards. Okay, the second

[10:02] teaching, this one might sting a bit.

[10:05] Musonius Rufus tells us to imagine

[10:07] [music] two doctors. Suppose that there

[10:09] are two physicians, one able to

[10:11] discourse very brilliantly about the art

[10:13] of medicine but having no experience in

[10:15] taking care of the sick and the other

[10:17] quite incapable of speaking but

[10:19] experienced in treating his patients.

[10:21] Which one would you choose to attend

[10:22] [music]

[10:23] if you were ill? Nobody picks the person

[10:26] who could talk well but can't practice

[10:27] medicine. He says, "Why would we treat

[10:29] virtue [music] or self-improvement any

[10:31] differently?" He would claim that you've

[10:33] read the books, you've watched the

[10:34] videos, you've listened to the podcasts,

[10:36] you can quote certain people.

[10:38] You can explain why this idea is

[10:39] beneficial and will change your life and

[10:41] yet you still lose your temper. You

[10:43] still get anxious.

[10:45] You still make morally questionable

[10:47] decisions and you still waste [music]

[10:48] your time.

[10:49] You still think about things in a way

[10:51] that doesn't benefit you or the people

[10:53] around you.

[10:54] What's going on?

[10:55] >> [music]

[10:55] >> Musonius liked to think of his lectures

[10:57] not as a concert hall where people went

[10:59] to be entertained [music]

[11:00] but more like a hospital where he wanted

[11:03] to leave people in a state of silence

[11:05] and almost shock after he would talk to

[11:07] them [music] and share his ideas because

[11:09] he thought that if people are left

[11:11] silent, that means the medicine

[11:14] is working [music] on them. And

[11:15] philosophy to him was a form of

[11:17] medicine. And the third teaching, this

[11:20] is slightly contrarian. At the moment

[11:22] Stoicism is going through this resurgent

[11:24] modern [music] Stoicism and there's a

[11:26] big focus on discipline. Not everyone

[11:29] but a lot of us are thinking [music] of

[11:31] Stoicism as this way to kind of train

[11:34] our willpower to do difficult things, to

[11:36] train hard, to go in saunas, [music] to

[11:39] do cold plunges, to live like a monk.

[11:43] And Musonius did like to practice

[11:45] voluntary hardship. He played around

[11:47] with hard beds, playing around with

[11:49] different temperatures, going without

[11:51] food, having basic attire, all of the

[11:53] standard voluntary hardship practices,

[11:55] [music] but there was a twist. Virtue is

[11:58] not simply theoretical knowledge, but it

[12:00] is practical application as [music]

[12:02] well. The modern discipline frame treats

[12:04] the body and the body's impulses as

[12:06] almost an obstacle for the soul and mind

[12:09] to overcome,

[12:10] whereas Musonius saw them working

[12:12] hand-in-hand. And the goal is to align

[12:15] them together. So, Musonius Rufus was

[12:17] not advocating punishment to make

[12:20] yourself better, [music]

[12:21] but doing small repeatable tasks as a

[12:24] form of practice for virtue [music] and

[12:26] embodied knowledge. The goal is not to

[12:28] punish yourself to become better, but by

[12:30] doing small repeatable acts that are

[12:33] aligned with body and soul to gradually

[12:36] become the person [music] that you want

[12:37] to be.

[12:38] And the other thing as well that people

[12:40] don't talk about is CBT, right? CBT

[12:43] comes from stoicism, [music]

[12:44] comes from the teachings of Epictetus.

[12:47] And Epictetus was taught by Musonius

[12:49] Rufus. So, Musonius Rufus, in many ways,

[12:53] is the original OG of CBT.

[12:57] The philosophical grandfather [music]

[13:00] for modern cognitive behavioral therapy

[13:02] was teaching exiled from a rock. Okay,

[13:05] so what can you actually do with all of

[13:07] this information? [music]

[13:09] Well, I recommend you do three things.

[13:11] The first thing is to do the physician

[13:13] test on yourself. [music]

[13:15] Look at the books you've read recently,

[13:17] the videos or the podcasts, and ask

[13:19] yourself, am I actually applying this?

[13:22] How am I applying this? And if I'm not,

[13:24] then start applying it. It's quite

[13:26] simple. Musonius Rufus would not be

[13:29] impressed by your reading list.

[13:31] Bring that to mind whenever you find

[13:33] yourself seeing self-improvement as a

[13:35] concert hall instead of a hospital. The

[13:37] second thing you can do is practice some

[13:39] voluntary discomfort. Not too extreme

[13:42] so that it becomes a [music] form of

[13:44] punishment, but not too small that you

[13:45] don't even notice it. Something small,

[13:48] and remember that you're not trying to

[13:50] make yourself feel worse. You're

[13:52] bringing your body and your soul

[13:54] together to practice [music] virtue.

[13:56] Virtue as a form of embodied knowledge

[13:59] rather than like just an idea or like a

[14:01] word or something.

[14:02] And the third thing you can do is simply

[14:05] >> [music]

[14:05] >> research and read up more on Musonius

[14:08] Rufus. Find some quotes. Look at his

[14:10] discourses. They're all available and

[14:12] free online.

[14:13] There's a Lots translation from 1947

[14:16] that is free online, and I'll provide a

[14:18] link to that translation in the

[14:20] description. [music]

[14:21] So, why does Musonius Rufus so much? Was

[14:23] it that he was so ahead of his time?

[14:25] Well, possibly. You could also argue

[14:27] that he was actually on time, and

[14:29] everybody else was late.

[14:31] If you like the ideas in this episode, I

[14:32] have a video called why the Stoics never

[14:36] needed willpower. And it's all about how

[14:38] virtue is more important than just

[14:40] gritting your teeth and getting on with

[14:42] it. So, for example, a lot of us try to

[14:45] [music] kind of think thoughts that will

[14:47] lead us to take action or to be

[14:49] disciplined. Whereas, the Stoics would

[14:51] say, "Well, why are you doing it? Why do

[14:53] you want to lose weight? Why do you want

[14:54] to go to the gym? Why do you want to

[14:55] pursue this goal?" And if it's to make

[14:58] you a better person, then you can always

[15:00] come back to that question, and it can

[15:02] always help you get to the next level.

[15:04] If you're struggling to do something

[15:05] difficult, and you remember that you're

[15:07] doing it to increase your virtue,

[15:09] and that [music] the only thing that

[15:11] matters is excellence of character,

[15:13] you'll have a much easier time leaning

[15:14] into that discomfort than if it's just

[15:17] for this external thing that is kind of

[15:19] outside of your control.

[15:20] So, you can check out that episode here.

[15:22] It's all about the Stoic approach to

[15:24] using virtue as a discipline tool.

[15:28] Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you

[15:30] for watching. I'll see you in the next

[15:31] one. Go well.

Jon Brooks
ArtistJon Brooks

Writer, meditation teacher and founder of The Stoic Handbook, Jon Brooks works in the gap between knowing how you want to live and actually living that way, testing Stoic ideas aga…

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Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

Musonius Rufus was a Roman equestrian born around 30 AD who became one of the most respected Stoic teachers in Rome. Jon Brooks argues he is the teacher of Epictetus, which makes him the through line for much of the later Stoic tradition, even though his own writings survive only as excerpts.
According to Jon Brooks, the difference comes down to who recorded the teachings. Epictetus was written down by Arrian, a best-selling author and public official, while Musonius had no comparably famous student and his surviving material was limited to excerpts, with no English translation until 1947.
Musonius compares a brilliant speaker with no clinical experience to a practitioner who knows how to treat patients, and asks which you would trust. The point is that philosophical knowledge is only proven when it is applied in real situations, not when it is merely explained.
Yes, Jon Brooks says Musonius argued women should study philosophy in a Roman world where they had little formal education, a position that contrasts with Seneca the Elder's ban on his own wife studying it. Brooks also notes the limits of the argument: Musonius was not a modern feminist and still held that men should take on heavier tasks.
In his Lecture VI on training, as Brooks presents it, Musonius treats theory and practice as hand in hand, aiming to align what a person understands with how they act. The goal is to rehearse conduct until it becomes habitual rather than to memorize doctrine and wait for the right mood.
Jon Brooks suggests taking one teaching and testing it against a single ordinary decision during the week, watching your own conduct as you act, and reading Musonius directly in a free online translation. He also cautions against using self-punishment as a method of self-improvement.
Brooks says Musonius was exiled to the barren Aegean rock of Gyaros in 65 AD after Nero's purge, found a spring the Romans had considered nonexistent, farmed the land, and attracted students who crossed the sea to study with him. His lecture 'That Exile Is Not an Evil' argues that exile cannot deprive a reasonable person of the basic goods of nature.

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