Transcript
[0:01] Okay, and now I would like to introduce
[0:05] tonight's speaker.
[0:07] So tonight's speaker is Drew Bellamy.
[0:11] Drew is a long-time Buddhist
[0:15] practitioner.
[0:16] And regularly speaker with Buddhist
[0:19] Society of Western Australia.
[0:21] Outside of Dharma, he works in
[0:24] engineering and runs Australian mining
[0:26] technology business. His practice has
[0:29] been influenced by teachings of Ajahn
[0:32] Brahm and also more recently by retreat
[0:36] practice with Bhante Dhammananda in
[0:38] Cambodia.
[0:40] His talks explore how traditional
[0:42] Buddhist teachings can be applied
[0:44] practically
[0:46] to the precious and uncertainty and
[0:48] responsibilities of ordinary lay life.
[0:55] So yeah, I welcome
[0:57] Drew Bellamy and
[0:58] hand over
[1:00] microphone.
[1:01] >> Thank you.
[1:02] Thanks everyone for coming tonight. It's
[1:04] always good as a lay speaker when you
[1:05] turn up
[1:06] and it's not just you and one other
[1:07] friend.
[1:09] Um
[1:11] So tonight I'll do a half hour guided
[1:14] meditation and then
[1:16] a 40 minute talk roughly and then I'll
[1:19] leave 20 minutes for for Q&A.
[1:23] I'm not going to be able to pull off the
[1:26] changing for the triple gem homage.
[1:28] Um
[1:29] So we'll just have to we'll probably
[1:30] have to skip that and then at the end of
[1:31] the Q&A we can just do the three bells.
[1:36] Okay. Um
[1:39] So I might just take a vote for the
[1:40] meditation.
[1:42] Who wants a
[1:45] deeply guided meditation starting with a
[1:47] body scan?
[1:48] The other choice is a
[1:51] lightly guided meditation where we just
[1:53] get straight into it. So the first one,
[1:55] the body scan and the and the
[1:57] and more guidance.
[2:01] And those who just want to go into the
[2:03] meditation with little guidance.
[2:07] Oh, okay. It's the little guidance.
[2:09] Okay, last year it was um it was it was
[2:11] the body scan. Um
[2:13] okay, so if we can just please dim the
[2:15] lights
[2:16] uh Bill
[2:17] and uh we'll get into it.
[2:32] So even for a
[2:33] a lightly guided meditation
[2:36] just a few words at the start perhaps
[2:38] we'll um
[2:39] just check our sitting position.
[2:44] Make sure our
[2:46] backs and
[2:47] bums are nice and comfortable and our
[2:49] feet are
[2:50] nicely placed on the floor on a cushion.
[2:53] Just take a bit of time to
[2:55] I always do a bit of wiggling and
[2:58] just checking the shoulders.
[3:00] Just feeling for any extra tension in
[3:03] in the face or any other part of the
[3:05] body like the stomach and then um
[3:08] as the silence the meditation comes
[3:10] paying a little bit of attention
[3:12] to those areas first
[3:14] before focusing on
[3:16] on the breath and then finally focusing
[3:19] on the mind.
[3:51] And as we're feeling the body just
[3:53] allowing the thoughts to
[3:57] slow down
[3:59] by letting them be.
[4:01] by not following them
[4:04] just watching them
[4:07] not interfering with them.
[4:45] Maybe now thinking about
[4:48] following the breath.
[4:52] through the nostril
[4:55] and out through the nostril.
[4:58] Maybe starting with some deeper breaths.
[5:01] 3 4 5 6 deeper breaths
[5:04] and allowing the breath to settle.
[6:44] >> If the mind is getting a bit just anchor
[6:46] back to the breath.
[6:59] It doesn't have to be perfect still.
[7:00] Just has to be slowing.
[7:03] Relaxing.
[11:35] >> Mhm.
[13:30] >> Mhm.
[17:20] >> Mhm.
[23:56] >> In the last few minutes of the
[23:57] meditation,
[24:00] just make sure you're aware of the
[24:01] breath.
[26:45] >> And as I ring the gong three times, and
[26:47] on the third gong, we come out.
[26:50] Just checking the body.
[27:55] Well done everyone. That's probably one
[27:57] of the better meditations over the last
[27:59] year or so.
[28:01] Um
[28:02] It's good. You can feel the silence.
[28:06] No mobile phones going off. Great.
[28:15] >> [cough and clears throat]
[28:15] >> Okay.
[28:18] So, um
[28:19] the theme of my talk tonight is uh
[28:23] using the Dharma to find a little bit
[28:25] more peace in in lay life
[28:28] um
[28:29] as the theme of the
[28:30] range retreat guest series was
[28:32] unshakable peace.
[28:34] Uh I'm not sure if you can get
[28:36] unshakable peace unless you're fully
[28:38] enlightened.
[28:39] Um but certainly we can make
[28:42] inroads there.
[28:43] Um and sometimes in in lay life it gets
[28:46] so busy and difficult. Um
[28:49] you you wonder how you can how you can
[28:51] do that. So, tonight I'll just
[28:54] going to put down a couple of excerpts
[28:56] from um some suttas and talk about um
[28:59] two ways that we can do that. And then
[29:00] I'm going to run through a um a
[29:02] mindfulness technique that you can use
[29:05] in daily life um
[29:07] and some examples about how I've
[29:09] recently uh successfully applied it.
[29:13] Um so, just a little bit of background
[29:15] to get into the talk. I first came here
[29:17] uh
[29:18] about 20 years ago, about 2005.
[29:21] Um
[29:22] as a as a 30-year-old and um
[29:26] lay life then was pretty simple. I
[29:28] thought as a 30-year-old that I had
[29:30] problems.
[29:32] But, little did I know 20-odd years
[29:34] later
[29:35] >> [laughter]
[29:36] >> being being at 30, being um
[29:39] uh unmarried and no kids and um
[29:42] not owning a home and not running a
[29:44] business, um I
[29:46] yeah, I didn't I didn't think I didn't
[29:49] think those things would be um
[29:51] difficult. They were things that I all
[29:52] strived for. And then in lay life, as I
[29:56] accumulated them, I found that um
[29:59] things definitely got more complicated.
[30:01] And um
[30:03] the
[30:04] I think the 30-year-old Drew
[30:07] um if he came and took took my shoes,
[30:11] he probably wouldn't last very long.
[30:13] Um
[30:16] Luckily for me,
[30:17] uh I've stuck at at the Dharma for um
[30:21] for 20 years with varying degrees of um
[30:23] success and and failure.
[30:26] And I would say that um
[30:28] it's definitely given me some um coping
[30:31] tools that that if I had
[30:34] have gone down a path of life um and
[30:36] just stuck with sort of the science
[30:38] engineering philosophies I I had, um
[30:41] which you mainly do if you're like that
[30:43] in in your 30s, um um yeah, I wouldn't
[30:46] have been coping with uh
[30:48] all the things that have come down have
[30:50] come down the road. So,
[30:53] I guess tonight I would say that um
[30:55] in my experience after 50-odd years,
[30:58] life doesn't seem to get any easier, but
[31:02] the Dharma uh and some of the tools
[31:04] available in Buddhism can
[31:07] help you cope a bit better and not
[31:10] exacerbate um situations.
[31:15] So,
[31:16] >> [clears throat]
[31:16] >> um
[31:17] I was going to start with um the
[31:20] eightfold path.
[31:21] Um I was talking to a young man tonight.
[31:23] It's his first night here and he said,
[31:25] "I don't know anything about Buddhism."
[31:27] And unfortunately, he came on a night
[31:28] where we did the light meditation. So,
[31:30] he's probably at the back wondering,
[31:31] "What was that about?" Um but what he
[31:33] did say was that he knew he had heard of
[31:36] and looked at the the eightfold path. Um
[31:39] which is right view, right thought,
[31:42] right speech, right action, right
[31:45] livelihood, right effort, um right
[31:48] mindfulness, and right samadhi. Some
[31:50] people say meditation, but I like to say
[31:52] samadhi cuz reading the sutras, um the
[31:55] Buddha doesn't really consider uh
[31:58] anything from what I can see below jhana
[32:01] style meditation as um samadhi. So,
[32:05] right samadhi.
[32:06] So,
[32:08] um of the eightfold path, there's
[32:11] there's two factors of it, I think, that
[32:13] fit with my talk tonight um that can
[32:15] help you in lay life. The first first of
[32:18] all is right view,
[32:19] um and second of all is mindfulness. So,
[32:22] in right view, setting, I guess, the
[32:24] stage of the world and why it operates
[32:27] like it does. And then um right
[32:29] mindfulness is about having um
[32:32] techniques to apply moment to moment,
[32:35] week to week. Uh and sometimes
[32:39] in Buddhism, you hear people say, "Oh,
[32:40] you've just got to be mindful." And
[32:42] you're like, "Okay, so what does that
[32:43] mean?" "Oh, just be mindful." Well, what
[32:45] do you mean? Anyway, I've got something
[32:46] for you on that. Um
[32:48] so
[32:51] the first,
[32:52] um
[32:53] sutta tonight, I'm not reading the whole
[32:55] sutta. I've just highlighted two
[32:56] paragraphs, um from each one, and then
[32:59] we'll have a discussion about it.
[33:01] But as far as right view goes,
[33:04] this sutta I came across when I was when
[33:06] I first walked in the hall not long
[33:07] after, and then I started reading the
[33:09] sutta books, and it's called, uh the
[33:11] eight worldly conditions.
[33:14] And at the time, in my 30s, um it just
[33:16] hit me as a really practical, uh
[33:19] explanation from the Buddha on how the
[33:21] world works. Now, there's many, many
[33:23] there's thousands of suttas, and and of
[33:25] course, most of them are very good. Um
[33:27] so, it's like a sea of information out
[33:29] there,
[33:30] uh and I just came across this one
[33:33] not so long ago, after many years of not
[33:34] even thinking about it, and thought
[33:36] that, um it would make for good subject
[33:38] matter in the in the talk tonight for
[33:40] setting up right view. Because if we can
[33:42] set up
[33:43] right view,
[33:45] um
[33:46] we're already on the pathway of not
[33:48] being too stressed out when when things
[33:50] go wrong, and not um being too worried
[33:53] or feeling injustice has been done when
[33:55] the world's not quite working the way we
[33:57] want it to.
[33:58] So, I'll just I'll just read these, um
[34:01] two paragraphs on this one. It's a it's
[34:02] a much longer sutta, but I've just
[34:04] picked out, I think, what's um
[34:06] um
[34:06] pertinent to tonight.
[34:08] >> [clears throat]
[34:09] >> So, this is from the Bhikkhu Bodhi, um
[34:11] series that you can buy in the in the
[34:13] library. Uh and this is the Anguttara
[34:15] Nikaya,
[34:17] 8.5.
[34:18] >> [clears throat]
[34:20] >> Bhikkhus, these eight worldly conditions
[34:22] revolve around the world, and the world
[34:24] revolves around these eight worldly
[34:26] conditions. What eight?
[34:29] Gain and loss,
[34:30] disrepute and fame, blame and praise,
[34:34] pleasure and pain.
[34:36] These conditions that people meet are
[34:38] impermanent, transient, and subject to
[34:40] change.
[34:41] A wise and mindful person knows them and
[34:43] sees them as subject to change.
[34:46] Desirable conditions don't excite their
[34:48] mind, nor are they repelled by the
[34:50] undesirable conditions.
[34:53] They have dispelled attraction and
[34:54] repulsion. They are gone and no longer
[34:57] present. Having known the dustless,
[34:59] sorrowless state, they understand
[35:01] rightly they have transcended existence.
[35:04] So, probably probably the last few lines
[35:06] are talking about um arahants,
[35:09] but
[35:10] what the Buddha's saying here, I guess,
[35:12] is um there's four pairs
[35:14] uh that all humans are subject to. So,
[35:17] it's eight worldly conditions, but
[35:19] they're four pairs
[35:20] um
[35:21] and each pair is a spectrum of of
[35:23] extreme, and at any one time
[35:26] um
[35:27] each of us
[35:28] is somewhere different simult-
[35:30] simultaneously on those on those four
[35:32] pairs, and
[35:34] it's astounding that um you know, he
[35:36] gave this teaching 2 and 1/2 thousand
[35:38] years ago, and all the technology's
[35:40] changed, and culture here, of course, is
[35:42] quite different to Bronze Age India, um
[35:45] but absolutely you can see that they all
[35:47] still apply to us um every day or or
[35:51] every year.
[35:52] Um and if we think about the eight
[35:55] worldly conditions, even if we just
[35:56] focus on one, gain and loss, I mean,
[35:58] that's that's an obvious one, whether
[36:00] it's um material things or um
[36:03] you know, you gain a spouse, and then
[36:06] you gain old age, and then you lose a
[36:08] spouse. Um
[36:10] And these things can be, of course, a
[36:12] diff- a difficult to deal with, but if
[36:14] we
[36:15] if we understand that it's inevitable
[36:17] that this is going to happen, like we we
[36:19] wake up in this human body and get up in
[36:20] the morning, and stuff's going on, and
[36:23] we're not we're not going to be able to
[36:25] um
[36:26] to stop it.
[36:28] >> [snorts]
[36:29] >> But with right view, um we can I guess
[36:32] be almost uh
[36:34] stoic about it, which is which is
[36:36] another philosophy. I'm sure most of you
[36:37] heard about it from from ancient Rome.
[36:40] Um
[36:41] where they're saying almost um you
[36:43] approach life with a
[36:45] patient endurance.
[36:48] The Buddha goes a little bit further, um
[36:50] uh even though he was before them, I
[36:52] think. Uh 2 and 1/2 thousand years and
[36:54] Rome was about 2 thousand so I think so.
[36:56] Um
[36:57] the the Buddha's saying that um
[37:00] in regards to
[37:02] the eight worldly conditions and these
[37:04] things that we're subjected to loss and
[37:06] gain and fame and blame, um which I've
[37:09] had all of it in my life uh and actually
[37:11] I don't want any of it anymore. I just
[37:13] rather have the middle way.
[37:15] Um
[37:16] The the Buddha's saying that the the
[37:18] trick is um
[37:20] not to have attachment to it. So, with
[37:23] um the pleasure
[37:25] on the pleasure-pain spectrum,
[37:28] not to be attached to pleasure, which is
[37:31] which is difficult. Um
[37:33] and also not to be um averting or
[37:37] I guess forcefully dodging pain because
[37:40] each one just exacerbates the situation.
[37:44] Um
[37:45] So, he the Buddha would not be
[37:47] advocating that um
[37:49] if you're in um
[37:51] pain or there's some problem to deal
[37:52] with that you don't go through process
[37:54] and do it, but he's saying that it's
[37:56] going to happen anyway. You wake up and
[37:58] and stuff's going to happen. Um
[38:01] and you can't really avoid it, including
[38:03] the pleasure, which is nice if it turns
[38:04] up. Um
[38:06] So, if you if you have a mindset where
[38:09] you're not
[38:11] clinging
[38:12] um I guess to say looking at the
[38:14] pleasure and pain one,
[38:16] um
[38:17] or gain and loss. If you're not clinging
[38:19] to gain, um then when you do lose
[38:22] something, uh, it's not I guess as as
[38:26] painful because you weren't that
[38:28] attached to it in in the first place.
[38:33] The, um, the second sutta, so that so
[38:35] that's about right view.
[38:37] And then the second sutta is, um,
[38:43] about mindfulness on the on the
[38:45] eightfold path if if we want to
[38:47] reference it back to that. So this one's
[38:49] from the, um, from Saṃyutta Nikāya
[38:52] 36 number six, uh, and it's called
[38:55] uh, in the Bhikkhu Bodhi translation he
[38:57] just calls it darts, um, but other
[39:00] authors over time have called it the the
[39:02] two arrows. So again, I'll just read two
[39:04] paragraphs and then and then I'll keep
[39:06] talking.
[39:12] Bhikkhus,
[39:13] when the uninstructed worldling is being
[39:16] contacted by a painful feeling, he
[39:18] sorrows, grieves, and laments. He weeps
[39:21] beating his breast and becomes
[39:22] distraught.
[39:23] He feels two feelings, a bodily one and
[39:26] a mental one.
[39:28] Suppose they were to strike a man with a
[39:30] dart or arrow,
[39:32] and they would strike him immediately
[39:33] afterwards with a second dart.
[39:36] So that man would feel pain caused by
[39:39] two darts.
[39:41] So too, when the uninstructed worldling
[39:43] is contacted by a painful feeling, he
[39:45] feels two feelings, a bodily one and
[39:48] then a mental one.
[39:51] By being contacted by that same painful
[39:53] feeling, he harbors aversion towards it.
[39:55] When he harbors aversion towards painful
[39:57] feeling, the underlying tendency to
[40:00] aversion lies behind this.
[40:04] He then, after this contact, seeks
[40:06] delight in sensual pleasure. For what
[40:09] reason?
[40:10] Because the uninstructed worldling does
[40:12] not know of any escape from pain
[40:14] other than sensual pleasure.
[40:18] That's interesting.
[40:20] Um
[40:21] So,
[40:23] in the first instance with the two
[40:25] darts, he's obviously talking about So,
[40:27] you get hit by a dart or emotional or
[40:30] physical, who knows? Maybe something
[40:31] goes wrong in a relationship and um
[40:34] you've got a broken heart or something
[40:35] like that. So, you get hit by the first
[40:38] dart and then you're um
[40:42] taking
[40:44] Basically, it's like you've been hit by
[40:45] the uh and you're saying, "Oh, why was
[40:46] this thrown at me? Who threw it at me?
[40:49] Uh why did they do that? Why does this
[40:50] always happen to me?" And then So, the
[40:52] Buddha's saying the second phase is is
[40:54] is the mental
[40:55] um and that can cause just as much pain
[40:58] as the initial um
[41:01] first injury, so to speak. And
[41:03] I mean, I I can talk about it in my life
[41:05] where I've had um
[41:08] uh
[41:09] family or or emotional problems that,
[41:11] you know, over the years in different
[41:12] circumstances.
[41:14] And um
[41:15] you you you it happens and then you just
[41:17] think about it and think about it and
[41:18] then you're not sleeping properly at
[41:20] night and then you're worrying and
[41:21] you're wondering, "Oh, how can I solve
[41:23] this? And why did it happen? And it's so
[41:25] unjust and that person's so evil. Um and
[41:29] on and on it goes.
[41:30] And suddenly the event may have been
[41:32] just like a day or an hour and then
[41:35] you're spending
[41:37] days or nights thinking about it and
[41:40] generating
[41:41] fantasy stories and fantasy revenges and
[41:44] um
[41:45] uh
[41:45] making this whole
[41:48] uh
[41:48] story that's consuming all your all your
[41:51] bandwidth um and actually it's probably
[41:53] or it is definitely very unhealthy for
[41:56] you. So,
[41:57] in this situation, that that the
[41:58] Buddha's saying,
[42:00] "Sure, you've been hit by um
[42:03] the first dart,
[42:05] but if you can just focus
[42:07] on the dart, accept that it's there and
[42:10] don't um
[42:12] generate the second mental dart, the
[42:16] overall pain impact is going to be less.
[42:19] There is going to be pain, and we all
[42:22] have to deal with that, but
[42:24] I guess there's no need to exaggerate
[42:26] it.
[42:27] And I know that someone like Ajahn Ajahn
[42:30] Brahm, he would say um
[42:33] uh
[42:34] you know, you've got you've got the
[42:35] first dart and treat it with kindness,
[42:38] so um
[42:39] treat your body with kindness, and then
[42:43] um treat maybe even the person who shot
[42:46] the dart with kindness, uh and then that
[42:49] will allow you to
[42:51] I guess not uh
[42:53] take take the second dart.
[42:57] The um
[42:58] the other part of that sutra is is
[43:01] pretty interesting where
[43:02] the Buddha's saying that um
[43:05] he calls it the or in that particular um
[43:08] interpretation, the uninstructed
[43:09] worldling,
[43:11] he's saying that the the uninstructed
[43:13] worldling or the person I guess who's
[43:14] who's un unaware of the Dhamma,
[43:17] the um reaction to overcoming painful
[43:21] experiences, both physical and
[43:23] emotional, I imagine,
[43:24] um
[43:26] is seeking pleasure.
[43:28] And
[43:30] I haven't I haven't read this sutra for
[43:32] a long time, and then I was coming
[43:33] across it um cuz I only had 10 days to
[43:36] prepare this talk. Unfortunately, Ajahn
[43:37] Brahm had an injury, and um
[43:40] I was having a year off this year, and
[43:41] then I got I got the call.
[43:43] Um
[43:44] So, I was having Yeah, I was having a
[43:45] flick through the sutras, and I and I
[43:47] had a look at this one, and it's it's
[43:49] interesting. Um
[43:51] using pleasure to overcome pain, and
[43:54] then I thought about things.
[43:56] So, on a on a society level, you know,
[43:58] maybe a lot of people don't like their
[44:00] work, or they're in some sort of unhappy
[44:03] situation, maybe. Um
[44:06] and then the overcoming things with
[44:09] maybe too much television or Netflix
[44:11] binging or, you know, this the
[44:13] stimulation or
[44:15] um
[44:16] being absolutely mad about football and
[44:18] every single game and every single
[44:20] statistic. Um
[44:22] and that's sort of almost at a at a
[44:24] harmless level and if you think about
[44:26] it, you can keep going up and you see
[44:27] people um
[44:29] or maybe know people um with
[44:32] severe drug addiction
[44:34] and I'm not a social worker or anything,
[44:36] but from what I understand um
[44:40] a majority of cases of people who have
[44:43] who are in that situation with um
[44:45] drug addictions or or similar
[44:48] um
[44:49] usually have had pretty rough childhoods
[44:51] um
[44:52] or having a very rough time in in their
[44:54] life
[44:55] and so they're turning to um
[44:58] pleasure like the Buddha's talking about
[45:00] there. They're masking the pain with
[45:03] with the pleasure. Um
[45:06] whereas
[45:07] the Buddha's saying maybe
[45:10] if you can um
[45:12] not Well, first of all, look at the
[45:14] eight worldly views and the and the
[45:16] right view and understand that that's
[45:17] always going to be there. With pain is
[45:19] always going to be with pleasure. One
[45:20] will follow the other. And then with um
[45:23] the dart
[45:25] not um
[45:28] mentally blowing up the second dart
[45:31] maybe there's a lot less um
[45:34] injury overall and then maybe you won't
[45:36] be um seeking seeking the the the
[45:39] pleasure which ultimately
[45:41] um at a high level. I mean, probably not
[45:43] watching TV or being too crazy about the
[45:45] football such a big deal. Um but, you
[45:47] know, drug use and getting hooked to
[45:50] opioids and and whatever else um
[45:53] uh would be um
[45:55] and actually I've been in that
[45:56] situation. So, I had a pretty severe
[45:58] auto accident um about three
[46:01] three
[46:03] four years ago or so and I was really
[46:05] banged up, lots of broken stuff and
[46:07] whatever. In the hospital for a while.
[46:10] Um
[46:11] I was single at the time as well. And um
[46:16] got out of the hospital and got home.
[46:18] And they cuz the injuries are so bad,
[46:20] they gave me quite a um
[46:23] uh
[46:24] dosage of opiates for the for the pain,
[46:26] which is completely medically fine cuz I
[46:28] was broken and busted. Um
[46:31] but I was at home for a while on my own
[46:33] having to like change all these
[46:35] dressings and get around the house with
[46:37] broken bones and shower myself and it
[46:39] was extremely painful. And so I was
[46:42] using the the opiates um for those
[46:45] couple of weeks, maybe a month or so
[46:47] um to get through it.
[46:49] And and I did and things started to heal
[46:51] up but it took at least two years and
[46:53] three rounds of surgery. Um
[46:56] but by the end of that first phase
[47:00] um when the when the opiates had run out
[47:03] I realized I had like a slight addiction
[47:06] to them and I went through I went
[47:07] through a slight withdrawal symptom. Um
[47:10] and it it it just lasted like a day or
[47:13] so and then I was all good.
[47:15] Um
[47:17] And I yeah and I realized how powerful
[47:19] those drugs are and how easy it is to
[47:21] get it would be
[47:23] I almost did get addicted to them
[47:24] because
[47:26] they um yeah they mask with pleasure cuz
[47:29] it's
[47:30] it masks all the pain of all the broken
[47:32] stuff so you can get around the house
[47:33] but it also masks a lot of
[47:36] I believe psychological pain like they
[47:38] slow down they slow down your mind and I
[47:40] had a lot of still like
[47:42] real vision trauma from that high speed
[47:45] accident and um yeah I think I was
[47:47] relying on those
[47:49] on those um opiates to
[47:51] to sort of be be a crutch to get
[47:54] through. Um and I can see how people
[47:56] would be in a situation like mine and
[47:59] then the medication runs out and the and
[48:01] the and the course is done
[48:03] and you're on to the next phase and
[48:05] they're like oh but life still sucks.
[48:07] Give me give me more of that.
[48:09] Um
[48:10] Anyway, so I'm not yeah I wouldn't I
[48:12] wouldn't judge anyone else in that
[48:14] situation
[48:16] having having been there.
[48:18] Um
[48:20] So I
[48:21] I guess with the
[48:23] with the two darts
[48:25] um
[48:26] that's a mindfulness thing and so the
[48:27] question is what what mindfulness
[48:30] activity can we do um
[48:32] to
[48:34] to help in that situation with the with
[48:36] the with the two darts.
[48:38] And um
[48:40] recently uh I've been
[48:43] um involved with a monk called Bhante
[48:45] Dhammadando who uh is based in Cambodia
[48:48] but he spent some time here teaching and
[48:51] running some retreats
[48:52] um but he's not he's not coming back and
[48:54] he's now
[48:55] just living in his hermitage in um in
[48:57] Cambodia.
[48:59] And um
[49:01] yeah he gave he gave a really good um
[49:05] teaching and so his
[49:07] his teaching for one of his teachings
[49:09] for for mindfulness
[49:13] to use in everyday lay life where you're
[49:16] in whatever it is an emotional
[49:18] situation with baggage or even um in
[49:21] some sort of physical
[49:23] um pain
[49:26] his technique is this.
[49:29] So your being
[49:33] then there's contact with phenomena.
[49:38] Then after the contact there's feelings
[49:41] or sensations that arise within the body
[49:44] and then um at the same time within the
[49:46] mind.
[49:49] So then once the sensations arrive
[49:53] you don't run with the sensations,
[49:55] there's examination.
[49:57] So, you just know um
[50:00] pleasure is pleasure.
[50:02] Or you just know fear is fear.
[50:04] And you And you watch
[50:07] what's occurring in the bodily
[50:08] sensations. So, let's talk about fear.
[50:10] Um
[50:11] watch the ch- watch the chest. Is your
[50:13] chest tight? Is your breathing tight?
[50:15] That's okay, because that's part of
[50:17] fear. Watch your mind. Is it's Is it
[50:21] affecting your mind state? Perhaps
[50:22] affecting your judgment. What does fear
[50:24] feel like? Like, know the fear.
[50:28] And neither
[50:30] run from the fear,
[50:32] nor, which would be unusual,
[50:35] cling to the fear. That would be in the
[50:36] pleasure state.
[50:38] Just know the fear
[50:40] and be with the fear.
[50:43] Not attaching to it, not running away
[50:45] from it.
[50:46] Let it run its course.
[50:48] So, this, of course, could be minutes or
[50:50] days or weeks. Um
[50:53] but be with it and let it run its
[50:54] course.
[50:56] And then it'll go on its own.
[50:58] And then you've dropped everything cuz
[51:00] the the fear is gone.
[51:02] And you're back to being.
[51:05] And then the cycle starts again.
[51:07] Maybe you get a minute. Maybe you get a
[51:09] week.
[51:10] So, you're you're being.
[51:13] Contact.
[51:14] Feeling.
[51:16] Examination.
[51:19] Knowing.
[51:20] Watching.
[51:22] And letting it run its course without
[51:24] interfering with it.
[51:26] And it's back to base of being.
[51:28] And I think I think this is quite a um
[51:32] powerful mindfulness technique that can
[51:34] be used in many
[51:36] different circumstances.
[51:38] Um
[51:39] it's quite different cuz I'm very
[51:41] familiar, obviously, with the Ajahn
[51:42] Brahm teachings. And just as a
[51:43] juxtaposition, I believe that Ajahn
[51:45] Brahm's teachings from all the time I
[51:47] spent with him personally as president
[51:49] and retreats.
[51:51] Um
[51:52] these two monks are ending up in the
[51:53] same place, but through slightly
[51:55] different doors. And I believe that
[51:57] Ajahn Brahm,
[51:58] um he would he would come through it
[52:00] from um
[52:02] the confluence technique. So, there
[52:04] would be
[52:06] um the event. There would be a
[52:08] calmfulness um
[52:11] uh
[52:11] philosophy around it. A letting go of
[52:14] it.
[52:16] And then being in a place where you're
[52:17] not holding the two suitcases, the past
[52:20] and um
[52:22] the future.
[52:23] Whereas Dhammamonda's technique seems to
[52:26] be
[52:26] um
[52:27] a a almost like a technical uh process.
[52:32] And um
[52:34] yeah, I've had I've had some success
[52:36] with it. So, I'll
[52:38] I'll just give two examples. Um the
[52:40] first one was
[52:42] on I went to the retreat last year in
[52:43] Cambodia.
[52:45] Um
[52:46] where I'd been to one of his retreats
[52:48] yeah, one before in Perth.
[52:50] Um and he was teaching lots of stuff,
[52:51] but it wasn't sinking in. And I I got to
[52:53] Cambodia and then this became more
[52:57] uh more apparent. And I
[53:00] I turned up in Cambodia and going,
[53:01] "Great. I've I've done a few retreats at
[53:04] um
[53:05] Jhana Grove with various monks. And I
[53:07] hadn't really had any um
[53:10] super breakthroughs in meditation like
[53:12] you read about in Ajahn Brahm's book,
[53:14] Mindfulness Bliss and Beyond. 20 years,
[53:17] surely I'm ready for it. I'm going to
[53:19] the jungle and this Dhammamonda, he's a
[53:21] real serious practitioner. So, this is
[53:23] how I'm going to I'm going to break
[53:24] through.
[53:25] And um my meditation's been pretty good
[53:27] for a lay person, but not like what's
[53:29] written about like Brahm writes about.
[53:31] Which maybe slightly unrealistic to uh
[53:35] hope for um in 20 years unless you're a
[53:37] monk going for it in the in the
[53:39] monastery.
[53:40] So, I I turn up to um
[53:43] Cambodia and get and get into the
[53:45] retreat. I'm in a pretty good state of
[53:46] mind. Um
[53:48] and the retreat's starting and the
[53:49] meditation's actually pretty good as
[53:51] well, better than at home, and it's I'm
[53:53] I'm happy. And then, boom, up comes all
[53:55] this stuff. Up comes the second arrow in
[53:57] my mind which I thought I dealt with
[54:01] with particular incident that had been
[54:03] running um over over that year and it
[54:06] concluded about 3 months before.
[54:09] I thought I was all done and then and
[54:10] I'm in the meditation hall and it's
[54:12] there. There's like the injustice over
[54:15] the revenge fantasies on that evil
[54:17] person. Uh what can we do? Want to get
[54:20] back on and do this and that and the
[54:21] other. And I I obviously had not dropped
[54:23] it and there was the second arrow. I was
[54:26] there in Cambodia in the perfect
[54:28] opportunity to really get some good
[54:30] meditation. Um
[54:32] and my mind was just wrecking it cuz I
[54:35] was holding this second arrow from the
[54:37] events earlier during during the year.
[54:40] Um
[54:42] and then
[54:45] using um
[54:47] Bhante's technique, I I was trying to
[54:50] wrestle with that and it took it took
[54:51] quite a while.
[54:53] And I did get some good meditations, but
[54:55] nothing to write home about. And I got
[54:57] on the plane and went, "Oh, damn it.
[54:59] Like, I did I went there in the forest
[55:01] and I
[55:02] you know, didn't meet my expectations."
[55:05] Um but then I came back to Perth and
[55:06] meditation was pretty good. Um and I
[55:09] realized that
[55:10] the value of that meditation retreat and
[55:13] I think it's good uh I don't know about
[55:15] other laypeople, but it's good to
[55:17] realize that you can read about these
[55:19] things in the book and aim for the
[55:20] lofty, but sometimes as a layperson,
[55:22] there's so much coming at you,
[55:24] you might be holding all these second
[55:25] arrows and you don't even realize it and
[55:27] you get into the meditation hall and
[55:28] actually you've got to clear all that
[55:30] stuff before
[55:32] um
[55:33] maybe you move to to some meditation
[55:36] goal that you're that you're hoping for
[55:38] Um and yeah, Bhante's Bhante's technique
[55:42] there
[55:43] it was hard work and slow going but by
[55:45] the end of it I had I had cleared that
[55:47] and I was good. I'm not going to say
[55:51] other traumatic things might come and
[55:53] and I'll be perfect at it. I'll be
[55:55] better at dropping it I think using that
[55:57] technique and probably quicker at it
[55:59] than before
[56:00] um
[56:01] and yeah, it was quite
[56:03] it was
[56:04] that's when it sort of opened my eyes to
[56:07] that technique and then the second
[56:09] example
[56:10] I was um
[56:12] on honeymoon this year in in Japan
[56:15] and we were staying at this hotel
[56:19] pretty sure it was in it was in Tokyo um
[56:23] and in Japan they have um ice machines
[56:26] on like every second or third floor it's
[56:28] free and you can just
[56:30] go grab a bucket of ice and we were
[56:32] having like orange juice and apple juice
[56:33] in the room in the morning and that and
[56:35] I thought oh I'll go get some ice we
[56:37] just checked into the hotel and at the
[56:39] other hotels I've been taking the stairs
[56:40] up and down for a bit of exercise to get
[56:43] ice and go to laundry and that so I did
[56:45] the same thing
[56:46] walked out into into the fire exit and
[56:48] then bang the door slammed and I'm like
[56:51] oh okay big steel door I'm in the fire
[56:53] escape it's like reinforced concrete
[56:56] there's no air it's fireproof airtight
[56:59] for a proper emergency in downtown Tokyo
[57:03] I'm like oh okay so anyway I walked up a
[57:05] couple of flights so we're like 13
[57:06] stories up or whatever
[57:08] feel the door it's locked I'm stuck in
[57:11] this tomb it's boiling hot and humid so
[57:14] there's no air conditioning in there and
[57:16] it's the middle of summer in Tokyo and
[57:18] I'm starting to sweat profusely and I
[57:20] can't breathe properly
[57:22] and I've been through
[57:24] a couple of drowning incidents in my
[57:25] life one in the Swan River and one in
[57:27] Rottnest like near
[57:29] and I just started to get that feeling
[57:31] like
[57:32] and then realized oh my god, I'm 13
[57:34] stories up and no one knows I'm in here
[57:36] and the air is unbearable."
[57:39] And it was confusing cuz everything
[57:41] looked the same. Like the Japanese are
[57:42] so perfect at their constructions. Every
[57:45] single step just looked the same, every
[57:46] rail. And I looked down to the bottom
[57:49] floor
[57:50] and it just went down and down and down
[57:52] and down
[57:52] >> [laughter]
[57:53] >> and I couldn't breathe.
[57:54] And I'm not an anxious person.
[57:57] But I started to get really anxious. I
[57:59] thought, "I'm trapped in this place.
[58:02] What if I pass out? No one's going to
[58:03] know I'm here. My wife doesn't know. She
[58:04] thinks I caught the lift. I don't turn
[58:06] up for an hour, she thinks I'm downtown
[58:08] Tokyo at the shop. Haven't got a phone.
[58:11] Walls are super thick, big steel doors.
[58:12] No one's going to hear me. Uh-oh."
[58:15] And I started to get really dizzy and
[58:18] started panicking. I could feel it. And
[58:20] um
[58:21] I just went, "Stop.
[58:23] Stop.
[58:24] What's the feeling? What are you worried
[58:26] about?"
[58:27] And oh, my chest is tight. I'm breathing
[58:30] heavily.
[58:31] Uh
[58:32] I've got fear about falling over down
[58:34] all those flights of stairs cuz they're
[58:36] so tight and small.
[58:39] Okay. Well, there's nothing you can do
[58:40] about it but get down there. So,
[58:44] just wait a second, Drew. Just wait.
[58:46] Just wait. And so, I just waited 3 4
[58:48] minutes
[58:49] and the anxiety went down and down and
[58:51] down. It didn't go completely but it
[58:53] went down enough that I said, "Right.
[58:55] You can do this, Drew.
[58:57] That's dropped down. You've got the
[58:58] fitness. Just concentrate and slowly
[59:01] walk down the stairs until you get to
[59:03] the bottom." Anyway, I did. Got there
[59:05] and then busted out through the door and
[59:07] then the girls in the lobby were like,
[59:08] "Oh, these Japanese girls, what's that
[59:09] quiet dude coming out of there?" Um
[59:12] but it it it worked as a as a
[59:15] mindfulness technique um not to spiral
[59:18] out
[59:19] uh mentally in a in a physical
[59:22] situation. Um
[59:25] I'm I'm sure if it was the
[59:26] claustrophobia or what it was that set
[59:28] me off. I haven't I haven't been like
[59:30] that before.
[59:32] Um
[59:33] but the mindfulness worked. And if I
[59:34] think about, you know, 20 years ago when
[59:36] I didn't know these sort of things, that
[59:38] situation could have ended up much
[59:39] worse. Like I could have
[59:41] just pushed through it all anxious and
[59:43] sweating and then tripped and then broke
[59:44] my arm again. And then um
[59:47] you know, no one no one knows that
[59:49] you're no one knows that you're there.
[59:51] Um
[59:53] So,
[59:55] I guess I just I just wrap up that um
[59:58] you know, lay life is um
[1:00:01] challenging. There's certainly um
[1:00:04] lots of joy available through through
[1:00:06] family experiences um
[1:00:08] and
[1:00:10] uh hobbies and and the Dharma, but
[1:00:12] there's also always going to be um the
[1:00:14] challenges. And I haven't seen uh a time
[1:00:18] or anyone I know that is not dealing
[1:00:20] with these challenges.
[1:00:21] However,
[1:00:23] using the using the Dharma with um right
[1:00:25] view and uh mindfulness in particular in
[1:00:29] lay life in in daily situations um
[1:00:34] I believe can be of of great help. And
[1:00:38] it's a subtle thing the Dharma. Um
[1:00:40] you can you can read the sutra or get an
[1:00:43] instruction from a monk that's quite
[1:00:45] profound.
[1:00:47] And
[1:00:48] sometimes it just doesn't sink in for
[1:00:50] ages and and you sort of just have to
[1:00:53] keep at it.
[1:00:54] Um
[1:00:56] but the way I see it is that if you if
[1:00:58] you don't do it, um
[1:01:01] what else is there? Like what what other
[1:01:02] tools are you going to use
[1:01:05] uh if you're not using the Dharma? You
[1:01:08] probably get away with it in earlier
[1:01:10] life when there's less responsibility
[1:01:12] um and pressure, but as you go on and on
[1:01:16] as a layperson having those uh Dharma
[1:01:19] tools are quite
[1:01:20] um is quite useful
[1:01:23] and um
[1:01:25] yeah, I'm um
[1:01:27] grateful for that, but it's a it's a
[1:01:29] gradual and and a long path
[1:01:33] um
[1:01:34] punctuated by sometimes long periods of
[1:01:37] peace and then sometimes long periods of
[1:01:40] turmoil and I would say that with my
[1:01:42] practice
[1:01:43] um
[1:01:44] every time I've gone into a turmoil
[1:01:46] phase
[1:01:47] uh
[1:01:49] life has been more unpleasant, but the
[1:01:51] practice has gotten better for me
[1:01:53] because you're sort of forced
[1:01:56] um
[1:01:57] to say, "Well, hang on a second.
[1:01:59] All these other things aren't uh
[1:02:01] working, you know, what am I going to
[1:02:02] do? What? Go see a psychologist or
[1:02:05] um
[1:02:06] take drugs or this or that? Like none of
[1:02:08] those things are really long-term
[1:02:10] solutions unless you've got lots of
[1:02:12] money to sit around with a psych um and
[1:02:15] sometimes, you know, in life problems
[1:02:17] aren't serious enough to go around
[1:02:18] seeing a psychologist or or whatever
[1:02:20] else,
[1:02:21] um but certainly if we um apply the
[1:02:24] Dharma as best we can and use difficult
[1:02:27] situations to
[1:02:29] enable the Dharma and apply it and gain
[1:02:31] confidence um in the techniques that are
[1:02:34] sitting in the sutras and taught by the
[1:02:36] monks that have been going for 2 and 1/2
[1:02:37] thousand years, there's uh there's
[1:02:40] definitely great value in that.
[1:02:43] So, I'll probably uh wrap up the talk
[1:02:45] there and we can have a um a longer Q&A
[1:02:48] session.
[1:02:49] I will admit that um
[1:02:51] of the 11 talks I've done now, tonight's
[1:02:53] talk was probably a little bit heavier
[1:02:55] than usual. However, um
[1:02:58] I wasn't planning on doing a talk
[1:02:59] tonight and this is the material I'm I'm
[1:03:02] working with and um my last couple of
[1:03:04] talks have been quite light, so I
[1:03:05] thought I'd I'd try something different.
[1:03:08] So, we'll open the floor to um to Q&A
[1:03:12] and um
[1:03:13] I would just say that
[1:03:15] you You ask um
[1:03:17] obviously questions about about tonight.
[1:03:19] But if you're if you're new here or
[1:03:21] you've got uh questions
[1:03:23] uh that you might not have asked in the
[1:03:25] bigger hall audiences before with the
[1:03:27] monks, please feel free on any subject
[1:03:29] in Buddhism
[1:03:31] um
[1:03:31] to to ask them tonight. Uh I know
[1:03:34] there's a new guy here and um I was
[1:03:35] talking to him before out the front and
[1:03:37] I definitely uh encourage him to ask a
[1:03:40] to ask a new question. And um
[1:03:44] if you feel a bit embarrassed about
[1:03:45] asking a a question or a bit unsure,
[1:03:49] why not why not use the mindfulness
[1:03:51] technique? Why not
[1:03:53] sit there,
[1:03:54] contact all.
[1:03:56] I want to ask a question, but uh
[1:03:58] I might be a bit embarrassed. Examine
[1:04:01] the embarrassment.
[1:04:03] Okay, what does it feel like? Where's it
[1:04:04] sitting? What would it mean if I was
[1:04:06] embarrassed?
[1:04:08] And just sit with it for a bit, neither
[1:04:09] clinging to it nor trying to suppress
[1:04:11] it.
[1:04:13] And then maybe that embarrassment will
[1:04:15] clear and you'll feel um free to ask a
[1:04:17] question.
[1:04:19] Thank you.
[1:04:23] Sadhu. Sadhu.
[1:04:27] Thanks, everyone.
[1:04:33] Great.
[1:04:34] Very brave.
[1:04:37] First question's always the hardest.
[1:04:39] >> [snorts]
[1:04:40] >> Uh th- thanks, Drew.
[1:04:42] Uh yeah, I just wanted to say thank you
[1:04:43] for your talk. It was um
[1:04:46] you know, a great great to hear from a
[1:04:47] fellow lay practitioner um
[1:04:50] um and um that just felt very validating
[1:04:54] that it's not all, you know, bliss and
[1:04:56] and met you know, and um
[1:04:59] all smooth sailing. So, I appreciated
[1:05:02] the the honesty and the realness and um
[1:05:04] I
[1:05:05] I imagine it took a bit of effort to to
[1:05:07] get up there and and, you know, to get
[1:05:09] through your own stuff. So, I you for
[1:05:11] that you know, even though it does does
[1:05:13] and it was a good talk that even if it
[1:05:15] was a bad talk it wouldn't have
[1:05:16] mattered.
[1:05:18] But, it was a good talk and
[1:05:21] yeah, I just wonder um
[1:05:23] how how you go being a a Buddhist
[1:05:26] amongst non-Buddhists out in the world?
[1:05:30] >> Um
[1:05:32] yeah, I just try and blend in.
[1:05:34] Not through misbehavior, but
[1:05:37] I I certainly don't advertise it. So, I
[1:05:40] I run a
[1:05:42] a mining technology company that's
[1:05:44] pretty well known around Perth in in
[1:05:46] drilling.
[1:05:47] Um
[1:05:48] and
[1:05:49] gee, like over 17 years I've
[1:05:52] never had a Buddhist conversation with
[1:05:54] any of my customers or suppliers or or
[1:05:57] anything like that. Um
[1:05:59] People at work,
[1:06:00] they obviously know what what I'm like
[1:06:02] cuz I'm working with them all the time.
[1:06:05] But, yeah, I just I just don't really
[1:06:07] advertise it and um
[1:06:11] you know, I
[1:06:13] I I come to accept that sometimes
[1:06:16] actually a lot of the time
[1:06:17] people don't have the same moral
[1:06:18] compass.
[1:06:20] Um
[1:06:21] and
[1:06:22] yeah, sometimes I've been ripped off and
[1:06:25] put in all sorts of situations where
[1:06:28] as a Buddhist I haven't been able to
[1:06:32] I wouldn't say fight back, but you know,
[1:06:34] revenge or inflict harm back or whatever
[1:06:37] and I don't know, I guess my karma's
[1:06:39] been okay and um
[1:06:42] I just I just drop it a lot of the time
[1:06:44] and go, you know what? Like
[1:06:47] So, if it's really bad, then the law is
[1:06:49] the law, right? And let the law take
[1:06:51] care of the process or the courts or
[1:06:54] whatever's going on.
[1:06:56] Um
[1:06:57] Someone steals your car or whatever, let
[1:06:58] the insurance take care of it. I guess
[1:07:00] that's how I do it. Um I used to be a
[1:07:03] lot fiery when I was
[1:07:05] starting out in my 30s like all young
[1:07:07] guys are. And now, I don't know if it's
[1:07:09] the Dharma or just getting older, um but
[1:07:12] I
[1:07:13] uh
[1:07:14] I just don't worry about it so much
[1:07:15] anymore. And And to be honest, I see
[1:07:17] some people misbehaving,
[1:07:19] you know, stealing and lying for a few
[1:07:21] dollars more, whether it's in business
[1:07:23] or whatever, out on the street. And I
[1:07:25] And I just think, "What are you doing?
[1:07:27] Like, really, at your age? Do you Do you
[1:07:30] really have to do that? You're looking
[1:07:31] like a fool. You know, what karma What
[1:07:34] are you setting yourself up for?" Um
[1:07:37] And I don't believe in karma as like the
[1:07:39] ultimate
[1:07:40] equalizer instantly that solves things.
[1:07:43] Um but I Yeah, I just have that view
[1:07:46] that, especially as people get older,
[1:07:48] especially once you get out of your 20s
[1:07:49] and that, I made a lot of mistakes in my
[1:07:51] 20s. You can make mistakes in your 20s.
[1:07:53] But as you get older and maybe you have
[1:07:55] kids and you're supposed to be a role
[1:07:56] model and that, like, don't be engaging
[1:07:58] in that behavior.
[1:08:00] It's how I do it, you know? Like
[1:08:02] Yeah. Sometimes just take the hits. Just
[1:08:05] do here. Just do my health.
[1:08:07] It's working.
[1:08:09] Yeah.
[1:08:10] Thanks.
[1:08:13] Hey, what? We'll just do three sadhus
[1:08:14] and then join me in three bows to the
[1:08:16] Buddha. I'm not going to attempt the
[1:08:17] chanting and then we'll And then we'll
[1:08:19] call it quits and maybe see you next
[1:08:20] year.
[1:08:22] All righty. Sadhu.
[1:08:25] Sadhu.
[1:08:27] Sadhu.
[1:08:28] All righty.