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Inspiration

Cyclic Sighing for Anxiety: Breathwork for Stillness

GG
Greater Good Science Center
Oct 14, 2026
10 min read

From Greater Good Science Center

Watch · 8

Picture a departure gate in a nearly empty airport. The flight has been canceled, six hours stretch ahead, and the person sitting there is a professional surfer who has ridden some of the largest waves on earth. Her answer to the stress of that moment is not a stretch or a snack. It is to sit down and sigh, deliberately, in a specific pattern. That scene, described by surfer and chemistry professor Sarah Gerhardt on The Science of Happiness from the Greater Good Science Center at UC Berkeley, anchors an episode about cyclic sighing: a short, controlled breathing practice with two inhales through the nose, a long, slow exhale through the mouth, and a few minutes a day of repetition. Host Dacher Keltner introduces it as a technique studied by Andrew Huberman and David Spiegel at Stanford, and the episode makes a case that the body can be trained toward calm the same way it can be trained toward courage in the water.

Read · 7 sections

Why does a big-wave surfer need a breathing practice for traffic jams?

Gerhardt's relationship with breath started out of necessity. She grew up on beaches, partly in Hawaii, and taught herself to get out of the water. When she set her sights on bigger waves, she ran into a problem that shows up in any serious breath-holding discipline: the body starts to panic long before the lungs run out of air. "So I needed to train my body to not freak out," she explains, describing how a long breath hold can make the hands tingle and the edges of vision go dark.

"We have a natural response to breathe when our CO2 levels get high. But that's trainable. So I can train myself to be comfortable in the chaos and the discomfort."

— Sarah Gerhardt, The Science of Happiness, 0:35

The line matters because it reframes panic as a reflex with a trigger, not a verdict on the person experiencing it. The urge to gasp is the body reacting to rising carbon dioxide, and reflexes can be retrained. Gerhardt's surf training is a case study in exactly that: she learned to stay composed while her body argued for air.

What she noticed next is the more interesting part. Her breath work was all organized around motion. "I have breathing practices when I swim. I have breathing practices before I go surf big waves," she says. "I just didn't have a practice for when I'm in my car in traffic." She did not have one for sitting still and feeling nervous, either. That gap is the reason cyclic sighing caught her attention. It is a practice built for stillness, not performance.

"I just didn't have a practice for when I'm sitting here, and I'm nervous talking to you."

— Sarah Gerhardt, The Science of Happiness, 1:00

There is a useful lesson here for anyone who has a breathing routine for the gym, the yoga mat, or the pool but nothing for the kitchen table before a hard phone call. Breath practices tend to be specialized. Cyclic sighing is meant to be portable, to work in the moments that do not come with a physical task attached.

What is cyclic sighing, step by step?

The published instructions for the practice, which accompany the episode, are concrete enough to follow without a teacher. Find a comfortable seated or standing position in a quiet place, and relax your shoulders and jaw. Then:

  • First inhale. Breathe slowly and deeply through the nose, starting with the abdomen so it expands (diaphragmatic breathing), and fill the lungs about halfway. Hold briefly.
  • Second inhale. Keep inhaling through the nose, now expanding the chest to fill the lungs completely. Hold this combined breath for a moment.
  • Exhale. Let the air out slowly and completely through the mouth. The exhale should last about twice as long as the combined inhales.
  • Repeat. Run the sequence for about three cycles, or as many as you like.
  • Reflect. Notice how the body feels, looking for relaxation, reduced tension, or a calmer mind.

Gerhardt's account adds a detail that the written steps can miss: the first moment is awareness. "The acknowledgment of my body and just the awareness of, oh, my shoulders are in my ears, and I am not breathing," she says. Noticing that her shoulders had crept up and her breath had stopped was the first thing that made her calmer. Only then did the sequence begin. She also admits that filling the belly first was unfamiliar. "I don't do that normally," she says, so she had to work out how to breathe into her belly before she could fill the rest of her lungs.

"And then the step of breathing in through my nostrils—so you breathe in into the belly first. And I don't do that normally."

— Sarah Gerhardt, The Science of Happiness, 6:15

Why does the long exhale carry so much of the weight?

Most of the instructions focus on the inhales, but the practice is named for its sigh, and the exhale is where the design is most deliberate. Spiegel's explanation begins with an observation about ordinary breathing. "We all tend to breathe too fast," he says in the episode, and he describes the chest as a kind of vacuum that draws air in from outside, with the act of exhaling being what pushes air back out into the world.

"We all tend to breathe too fast."

— David Spiegel, The Science of Happiness, 22:38

The two-inhale structure is a way of filling the lungs fully before releasing, and the extended exhale gives the body a long, unhurried outflow to settle into. The practice asks you to slow down the part of the breath that most people rush. Spiegel's broader point is that the body responds to these rhythms, and that regulating them is a practical lever: "So we can do things to regulate the way our bodies feel," as the episode puts it.

What did the Stanford research actually look at?

The episode is careful to describe the work as an investigation into a simple question. Spiegel put it this way at the top of the program: "We were trying to see whether people, by just practicing a brief daily breathwork exercise, could demonstrate some significant improvement in mood and physical arousal and tension."

"We were trying to see whether people, by just practicing a brief daily breathwork exercise, could demonstrate some significant improvement in mood and physical arousal and tension."

— David Spiegel, The Science of Happiness, episode opening

Later in the episode, Spiegel describes what the group found when people practiced for short sessions: "We had people practice just five minutes a day," and those who practiced regularly over a month could see substantial effects. The accompanying description puts the finding in plainer terms: five minutes of daily practice can improve mood and lower respiratory rate. The episode presents this as science-backed, and it is worth reading that phrase precisely. It describes a body of evidence about a short, repeatable exercise and its effects on mood and physiology. It is not a promise that the technique replaces professional care for anxiety, and the material here does not claim it does.

The point Spiegel returns to most often is the scale of the commitment. The practice is short. The episode frames it as a skill more than a remedy. "You can do something in five minutes or less," the program notes, and it likens the process to learning a physical skill, such as riding a bicycle, that takes repetition before it feels natural. The argument is that minds, like bodies, need training to live better.

"You can do something in five minutes or less."

— The Science of Happiness, 27:09

Why does the sound of the sigh matter?

Keltner brings an unusual angle to the practice. His lab has studied sighs, the short vocalizations people make without thinking. He argues that one of the least appreciated parts of cyclic sighing is that it gets people to vocalize emotion. "We make sighs that sound like relief and sympathy," he says, and he points to the familiar frustrated sigh as a sound everyone recognizes. Gerhardt hears her own sighs as a little bit like relief. Keltner agrees that relief and contentment are the sounds the practice is aiming for, and he adds: "And we need them."

"We make sighs that sound like relief and sympathy."

— Dacher Keltner, The Science of Happiness, 7:10

That observation gives the practice a second dimension. It is not only a regulation of airflow; it is a permission to let out an audible release. The exhale through the mouth is where that sound lives, and it is part of why the practice feels different from silent breath counting.

How does cyclic sighing work in a real high-pressure moment?

The airport gate was Gerhardt's first serious test. She and her daughter had left Santa Cruz at 4:15 in the morning to reach a flight to her niece's wedding, and the flight was canceled. Facing a six-hour wait, a rental car, and a ferry ahead, she recognized the rising stress. "So fortunately, the airport was mostly empty," she says, and she decided to sit and do the practice. "I'll definitely use it again," she concluded.

"I just said, I'm just going to sit down here, and I'm going to do my sighing. And it was really, really helpful."

— Sarah Gerhardt, The Science of Happiness, 7:40

What makes the story useful is that it is not about the wave. It is about the situation that a surfer's training does not cover: being stuck, nervous, and unable to move. Gerhardt's account is also honest about what the practice does not fix on its own. She still experienced stress, and the technique gave her a way to meet it rather than eliminate it. That is a modest claim, and it is the one the episode makes.

Where to go from here

If you want to try cyclic sighing, the material points to a simple way to begin. Choose one quiet, sitting moment in your day, not a crisis, and run three cycles of the pattern: belly first, then chest, a short hold, and a slow exhale through the mouth that lasts about twice as long as the inhales. Afterward, notice what changed in your shoulders, jaw, and breath. Then try it again tomorrow, aiming for five minutes of daily practice, which is the dose the Stanford work examined.

Pay attention to where it fits. Gerhardt's own lesson was that the breathing practices people already rely on tend to be tied to movement, and cyclic sighing fills the gap for stillness: the car, the waiting room, the conversation that makes you nervous. Keep the practice short, keep it repeatable, and treat it as a skill you are training rather than a switch you flip. For further listening, the episode and its companion episodes in The Science of Happiness series explore the other breathing approaches Keltner's team is covering.

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Transcript

[0:00] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[0:05] SARAH GERHARDT: I started out growing up on the beaches,

[0:08] in part in Hawaii, and being left to myself to figure out

[0:12] how to get out of the water.

[0:13] And I survived, so that's good.

[0:17] When I wanted to start surfing bigger waves,

[0:19] I did encounter the problem of not being able to hold my breath

[0:23] and of getting almost to that panic state.

[0:27] So it was really important to do breath-hold training.

[0:32] So I needed to train my body to not freak out,

[0:35] to not go into that-- like if you

[0:37] hold your breath for a long time,

[0:38] your hands can start to tingle.

[0:40] Your vision starts to get black from the outside.

[0:45] There can be a lot of anxiety.

[0:47] We have a natural response to breathe

[0:50] when our CO2 levels get high.

[0:51] But that's trainable.

[0:53] So I can train myself to be comfortable in the chaos

[0:58] and the discomfort.

[1:00] But I realized that I have a lot of breathing practices

[1:05] for movement.

[1:06] So I have breathing practices when I swim.

[1:08] I have breathing practices before I go surf big waves.

[1:11] I just didn't have a practice for late for an appointment,

[1:15] and I'm in my car in a traffic.

[1:17] Or I didn't have a practice for when I'm sitting here,

[1:20] and I'm nervous talking to you.

[1:21] So I have all these amazing breathwork practices

[1:24] that are really important for the things

[1:26] that I like to do physically.

[1:28] But I'd like to incorporate practices for just sitting here.

[1:32] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[1:42] DACHER KELTNER: Welcome to The Science of Happiness.

[1:44] I'm Dacher Keltner.

[1:45] This week is our first episode in a series

[1:48] on science-backed ways to breathe away anxiety.

[1:53] We're starting with a controlled breathing technique

[1:55] called cyclic sighing.

[1:57] It's a simple and powerful way to reduce anxiety and promote

[2:00] relaxation, and it's quite different from the type

[2:03] of breathing our guest today, professional surfer Sarah

[2:06] Gerhardt, is accustomed to.

[2:08] Sarah is the first woman to surf the Mavericks

[2:11] waves in Northern California, where

[2:13] swells reach up to 60 feet.

[2:16] When she's not navigating the waves,

[2:18] she's a chemistry professor in Santa Cruz.

[2:21] While Sarah finds calm in the ocean, life on land

[2:24] can stress her out.

[2:25] So for our show, Sarah tried out cyclic sighing for a few weeks

[2:28] to help her relax.

[2:30] We'll hear from Sarah and also from David Spiegel, the Stanford

[2:34] scientist who helped discover the benefits

[2:36] of doing this practice for five minutes a day.

[2:38] DAVID SPIEGEL: We were trying to see whether people,

[2:41] by just practicing a brief daily breathwork exercise,

[2:46] could demonstrate some significant improvement in mood

[2:50] and physical arousal and tension.

[2:53] DACHER KELTNER: How and why to tricyclic sighing

[2:55] after these messages from our sponsors.

[2:57] [MUSIC PLAYING]

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[4:13] SPEAKER 3: Pelosi, whether you love her--

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[4:38] DACHER KELTNER: Welcome back to The Science of Happiness.

[4:40] I'm Dacher Keltner.

[4:42] This week is all about the science

[4:44] behind a controlled breathing technique called cyclic sighing.

[4:48] With me now is professional surfer Sarah Gerhardt

[4:51] to talk about her experience with cyclic sighing.

[4:54] Sarah, thanks for being on the show.

[4:56] SARAH GERHARDT: It's really a pleasure to be here.

[4:58] Thank you.

[4:59] DACHER KELTNER: I want to ask you about your surfing life.

[5:01] You've been surfing since you were 13

[5:03] and made a professional career out of surfing large waves.

[5:07] What drew you to large waves?

[5:09] Why that specialization?

[5:11] SARAH GERHARDT: I'm very curious and probably hyperactive.

[5:14] So when I was a kid, I just wanted to be further out,

[5:18] further out, further out.

[5:19] It's kind of like the mountain climbers.

[5:20] They look at those mountains, and they go, what's up there?

[5:23] I wonder what's up there.

[5:24] Part of it was a curiosity about myself and what I could handle,

[5:28] and part of it was the intensity of the situation really helped

[5:33] to calm all the noise that was going on inside

[5:36] and the circumstances on the beach,

[5:38] so I could just leave everything behind.

[5:40] And the bigger it was, the more intense

[5:42] the focus and the more thrilling it was.

[5:44] DACHER KELTNER: Yeah, I hear you.

[5:46] So we had you try out this controlled breathing exercise

[5:48] called cyclic sighing, which was studied

[5:51] by Andrew Huberman and David Spiegel at Stanford.

[5:54] And David will come by on the show

[5:55] and talk about this later in the episode.

[5:57] But can you share with us and just

[5:59] walk me through how to do cyclic sighing, the steps, and how

[6:05] you do it?

[6:06] SARAH GERHARDT: Yeah.

[6:07] So the first step for me that was so important

[6:09] was the acknowledgment of my body

[6:12] and just the awareness of, oh, my shoulders are in my ears,

[6:15] and I am not breathing.

[6:18] Instantly relaxing my shoulders and becoming aware

[6:21] made me calmer.

[6:22] And then the step of breathing in through my nostrils--

[6:27] so you breathe in into the belly first.

[6:30] And I don't do that normally.

[6:32] So I had to breathe into my belly first,

[6:35] and I had to figure out how that worked.

[6:37] And then a little hold and then fill up

[6:40] the rest of the way to the top of my lungs

[6:43] and then let it out with a sigh.

[6:46] DACHER KELTNER: My lab has studied,

[6:48] I guess you would call them sighs, just

[6:50] little vocalizations.

[6:52] And I think one of the underappreciated parts

[6:54] of this practice is to get people to vocalize emotion.

[6:57] We make sighs that sound like relief and sympathy.

[7:02] Marge Simpson's frustrated sigh.

[7:07] And what do your sighs sound like?

[7:09] Do you think?

[7:10] SARAH GERHARDT: I think they sound a little bit like relief.

[7:14] DACHER KELTNER: Yeah, it's relief and contentment.

[7:17] And we need them.

[7:19] Walk us through one of your cyclic sighing sessions,

[7:22] why you picked that moment to do it, and what it was like.

[7:27] SARAH GERHARDT: The first big cyclic sighing thing

[7:29] I did was I had a flight to visit.

[7:32] My niece was getting married, and my daughter and I left Santa

[7:35] Cruz at 4:15 in the morning to make our flight.

[7:38] And we got to the airport, and our flight was canceled.

[7:40] And I was like, OK, I'm freaking out here.

[7:43] We had to wait six hours to get on a flight,

[7:46] and then I had to get a rental car

[7:47] and drive and get on a ferry.

[7:49] And it was a little stressful.

[7:51] DACHER KELTNER: Sounds a little safer than a big wave,

[7:53] but go ahead.

[7:55] SARAH GERHARDT: I'm on land.

[7:56] It put me in the water, and I'm a much calmer, happier, safer

[7:59] person.

[8:01] So fortunately, the airport was mostly empty and hardly anyone

[8:05] else at the gate.

[8:06] And so I just said, I'm just going to sit down here,

[8:07] and I'm going to do my sighing.

[8:09] And it was really, really helpful.

[8:10] Yeah, I'll definitely use it again.

[8:13] DACHER KELTNER: What different places

[8:14] did you find that you were relying on this

[8:17] or starting to build this into your life?

[8:19] Was it moments of anxiety, or what

[8:21] were the contexts that you've started to build this practice?

[8:24] SARAH GERHARDT: So I just turned 50.

[8:26] And so I'm doing all the exam stuff-- going to the doctor,

[8:30] getting everything checked out.

[8:31] And I'm like, oh, God, this is my least favorite type of exam.

[8:35] And so I'm going to do cyclic sighing

[8:37] on the way, while I'm driving, and then before the appointment.

[8:41] And so I get into the doctor's office,

[8:44] and the medical assistant's like, OK,

[8:45] we're going to check your blood pressure.

[8:47] And I'm like, yeah, it's usually around 110 over 60.

[8:50] And she goes, oh, it's 96 over 56.

[8:53] And I'm like, oh, my gosh!

[8:54] I haven't been under 110 over 60 in a really long time.

[8:59] And I knew at that point that the things I was feeling,

[9:02] like being relaxed and not being as anxious

[9:05] for-- let me tell you a very anxiety-provoking experience

[9:09] that I was just about to have.

[9:11] That was amazing to me, actually seeing the numbers.

[9:14] So that was a real case scenario.

[9:16] And then another of my least favorite kinds of appointments

[9:20] would be the dental hygienist.

[9:21] I really don't like getting my plaque scraped off my teeth.

[9:25] I just don't like it.

[9:27] I'm just.

[9:29] So I decided to try it, and I just

[9:32] let my hygienist know I'm doing some breathing techniques right

[9:35] now.

[9:36] And then I had to rinse and spit,

[9:37] and I'm going to do it a little bit more.

[9:39] And then she laid me back in the seat.

[9:41] I felt a lot calmer through that.

[9:43] DACHER KELTNER: Such terrific wisdom

[9:45] because you're using your sense of your body and the context

[9:49] like, oh, I'm feeling overwhelmed here.

[9:51] That's a cue.

[9:51] Let's go to cyclic sighing.

[9:53] How long have you been trying cyclic sighing?

[9:56] SARAH GERHARDT: So a couple months.

[9:57] 2 and 1/2 months ago, I started, and then I really started

[9:59] in earnest, probably just about a month ago, because I was like,

[10:03] oh, yeah, I'm going to practice it when I'm in this stressful

[10:06] situation, like at the airport, or trying to get on the ferry

[10:10] or whatever.

[10:12] And then I realized, wait a minute.

[10:14] I can practice it all the time.

[10:17] Like I said, when I'm bored or overwhelmed

[10:19] or whatever situation arises, I can practice cyclic sighing.

[10:25] So it really picked up the pace once I started

[10:28] seeing the benefits of it.

[10:31] I actually tend to be quite an anxious person,

[10:33] and I think I came in the world that way.

[10:36] So anxiety builds up during the day, and so does distraction.

[10:39] After an hour on the computer, and I'm

[10:42] multitasking because I'm trying to do emailing students

[10:46] and emailing other faculty.

[10:47] I'm department chair right now, and I'm

[10:49] getting presentations ready, and I just start freaking out.

[10:53] So it's not just like, oh, super stressful situation.

[10:57] It's like I'm just overloaded right now,

[11:00] and I need to calm down, and I need

[11:02] to focus because I have another couple hours of this stuff

[11:05] to do, and I'd rather go surfing, honestly.

[11:07] Do you know what it feels like to just

[11:08] be foggy-headed and just overwhelmed,

[11:11] and what's my next step?

[11:13] I know I have this list of 10 things that

[11:15] have to get done today.

[11:17] I have lost the ability to prioritize and focus right now,

[11:21] and I just want to grab a bag of chips

[11:23] and eat it because I'm stressed out,

[11:27] but I can't put my finger on it.

[11:29] So I need to focus, and I'm going to calm myself down.

[11:32] So I've done that, and that's been helpful--

[11:35] taking that break to step away from what I'm doing,

[11:38] that I'm finding overwhelming or just boring or whatever.

[11:41] And I'm just anxious.

[11:43] So when I first was starting to practice cyclic sighing,

[11:46] I set a timer, and my timer got off an hour later.

[11:48] And I'm like, oh, what's the timer for?

[11:50] Oh, yeah, I'm going to breathe right now.

[11:52] Those are the shifts.

[11:53] Those are important shifts-- these simple little things that

[11:57] have really important consequences

[11:59] and shifts towards a positive, more productive, calmer life.

[12:03] So that is the benefit to me of incorporating cyclic sighing.

[12:10] DACHER KELTNER: Other thoughts on the context in your life

[12:13] where you really have built this into your practice?

[12:15] SARAH GERHARDT: It really doesn't take much.

[12:17] It's like, what is it?

[12:18] Six breaths.

[12:18] And I'm like, oh, I feel calmer.

[12:20] And sometimes it is interesting.

[12:22] I notice that I have to focus on it.

[12:24] And I think that may be one of the aspects of why it's calming,

[12:28] because I'm shifting my focus away

[12:30] from whatever chaos is around me or whatever

[12:33] I'm perceiving to be chaotic, and I'm

[12:36] moving to this other practice.

[12:38] It's not like I'm doing it for an hour.

[12:39] I'm just doing it for six, maybe eight breaths.

[12:41] And all of a sudden, I realize I'm not counting anymore,

[12:44] and I'm breathing deeper, and I'm like,

[12:46] OK, I'm ready to move on.

[12:48] DACHER KELTNER: Yeah.

[12:48] SARAH GERHARDT: It's nice.

[12:49] DACHER KELTNER: Yeah, I hear you.

[12:51] I'm curious.

[12:52] When you think about all the practices you've done,

[12:56] what does this breathing and then the cyclic sighing

[12:58] give to you that's unique, perhaps?

[13:00] SARAH GERHARDT: I think something

[13:01] that's unique about this is that it gives me a practice when

[13:07] I'm not in movement.

[13:10] It's something that I do when I'm not moving.

[13:12] Yoga is in movement.

[13:14] Vinyasa flow, right?

[13:15] Or surfing's in movement.

[13:17] Or mountain biking.

[13:18] I'm in movement.

[13:18] And I don't have to think about breathing

[13:20] when I'm mountain biking.

[13:21] Going up a hill, I am sucking air.

[13:24] I have to breathe.

[13:26] So I have these physical practices

[13:28] that the breathing comes with it.

[13:31] But what do I do when I'm sitting here and I'm anxious,

[13:33] or I'm in the car, or I'm in the line at the grocery store?

[13:38] What do I do when I'm bored in my office, and I'm just like,

[13:42] oh, I'm tired of doing what I'm doing?

[13:44] Well, I can easily refocus and reshift

[13:49] my response, my emotional response,

[13:51] or my physical response to the circumstances

[13:53] just by doing this practice.

[13:55] Then I'm sleeping better.

[13:57] Then I'm living better.

[13:59] I'm living from a centered, calmer space.

[14:03] And let me just reiterate, that is not my natural state.

[14:06] And I think it's really powerful.

[14:08] And I'm really excited to practice it

[14:10] and to continue to practice it.

[14:13] DACHER KELTNER: Thank you so much, Sarah.

[14:15] It's been a wonderful interview.

[14:16] SARAH GERHARDT: Well, thank you for having me and introducing me

[14:19] to a very valuable practice that I'll use the rest of my life.

[14:23] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[14:28] DACHER KELTNER: Hey, everyone.

[14:29] Next, we'll hear from Dr. David Spiegel, who

[14:31] worked with Andrew Huberman from the Huberman Lab podcast

[14:34] to test how different breathing techniques

[14:36] like cyclic sighing and mindful meditation

[14:39] impact our mood and breathing rates.

[14:41] DAVID SPIEGEL: We tend to over-breathe, not

[14:44] breathe deeply enough, and breathe too rapidly.

[14:47] So typically, it's 10 to 12 a minute

[14:50] for people when it ought to be more like 6.

[14:53] And you breathe more efficiently and more relaxingly

[14:56] if you take longer, slower breaths.

[15:00] DACHER KELTNER: Dr. Spiegel will also

[15:01] guide us in a short, cyclic sighing practice on next week's

[15:05] Happiness Break episode.

[15:06] Tune in then, and you can try it out even earlier.

[15:09] We have a step-by-step guide in our show notes.

[15:12] More on the science of cyclic sighing up next.

[15:15] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[15:24] Real progress starts with action.

[15:27] As executive director of the Honnold Foundation,

[15:29] Emily Teitsworth works to expand access to solar energy

[15:33] and communities around the world, supporting locally

[15:36] led projects that bring reliable power, greater independence,

[15:40] and opportunity where it's needed most.

[15:43] On the podcast Planet Visionaries,

[15:46] professional climber and Honnold Foundation founder Alex Honnold

[15:50] goes beyond the headlines with Emily

[15:53] to explore practical solutions for a more equitable future.

[15:57] In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative,

[16:00] this is Planet Visionaries.

[16:03] Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.

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[18:29] DAVID SPIEGEL: Breathing is a really interesting function

[18:31] because it's right at the edge of conscious and unconscious

[18:34] activity.

[18:35] So by and large, heart rate, blood pressure,

[18:38] gastric function, and all that are pretty much unconscious

[18:40] activities.

[18:42] Breath is right in the middle.

[18:44] So if you don't pay any attention to it,

[18:46] you will continue breathing, we hope.

[18:48] But if you do, you can control it very easily.

[18:51] DACHER KELTNER: That's Dr. David Spiegel,

[18:53] the Stanford psychologist who studied this technique.

[18:55] Shuka Kalantari spoke with him about his experiment,

[18:58] which measured the effects of cyclic sighing

[19:02] against other breathing methods and mindful meditation

[19:05] to see which one makes us feel better.

[19:07] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[19:13] SHUKA KALANTARI: You have been a member of the academic faculty

[19:16] at Stanford School of Medicine since 1975,

[19:20] which is quite impressive.

[19:22] And I'm just curious.

[19:24] In all your years of research, what

[19:26] brought you to studying the connection between our breath

[19:30] and our bodies?

[19:31] DAVID SPIEGEL: Well, I have been studying

[19:33] mind-brain-body interactions my entire career,

[19:37] and so I've been interested in ways

[19:38] in which the brain and the body interact that can help people

[19:42] live better.

[19:44] One of the things that I've learned

[19:46] is that it helps in handling stress to work from the body up,

[19:50] rather than the brain down.

[19:51] That is, rather than having to figure out

[19:53] why you are the way you are, just do

[19:55] something that makes your body feel better,

[19:57] and you can handle stress better.

[20:00] We compared three kinds of breathwork

[20:02] with a brief meditation control condition to see what happened.

[20:08] We had people practice just five minutes a day

[20:11] doing either cyclic sighing, box breathing,

[20:15] or cyclic hyperventilation in comparison to the meditation.

[20:20] And what we found was very interesting that with just five

[20:23] minutes a day for a month of practice,

[20:26] the people, particularly with cyclic sighing,

[20:29] had reduced average respiratory rate just doing

[20:33] five minutes a day of cyclic sighing,

[20:35] improve their mood as well.

[20:37] And so we realized that a very brief intervention, just

[20:42] practiced regularly for a month, could have substantial effects.

[20:50] We can try it if you'd like.

[20:51] SHUKA KALANTARI: That would be awesome.

[20:53] DAVID SPIEGEL: Here we go.

[20:54] So just take a note of just how wound up

[20:57] tense you feel right now.

[20:59] Can you rate it on a 0 to 10 scale?

[21:02] SHUKA KALANTARI: I'm always like a 5 up--

[21:04] DAVID SPIEGEL: 5 up.

[21:05] SHUKA KALANTARI: --kind of girl.

[21:06] DAVID SPIEGEL: So just get as comfortable as you can.

[21:12] And I'm going to ask you to inhale through your nose.

[21:16] And I want you to start with your abdomen.

[21:18] So diaphragmatic inhale-- push out

[21:20] your belly to inhale till your lungs feel somewhat comfortably

[21:24] full.

[21:25] And then stop.

[21:26] And now use your chest to fill your lungs completely,

[21:30] again through your nose.

[21:33] And now slowly exhale through your mouth.

[21:39] Through your mouth, slowly exhale.

[21:42] The exhale should take about twice as long as the two inhales

[21:46] did.

[21:47] Now, again, inhale through your nose, starting with your belly.

[21:53] Hold.

[21:55] Now expand your chest and fill your lungs completely

[21:58] through your nose.

[22:01] And a nice, slow exhale through your mouth.

[22:04] Very slow.

[22:11] How are you feeling?

[22:12] SHUKA KALANTARI: Much more relaxed.

[22:14] DAVID SPIEGEL: Oh, yeah?

[22:15] SHUKA KALANTARI: Yeah.

[22:16] DAVID SPIEGEL: Great.

[22:17] How would you rate it on that 0 to 10 scale now?

[22:20] SHUKA KALANTARI: I'm like below a 5 now a little bit.

[22:23] It's really just amazing the amount of tension

[22:27] that we can hold in our bodies continuously.

[22:31] Speaking of the body, what's happening physiologically

[22:35] during these inhales and exhales?

[22:38] DAVID SPIEGEL: We all tend to breathe too fast.

[22:40] A good average breath rate is about six a minute.

[22:44] So every 10 seconds go through a full breath cycle.

[22:48] And the secret to cyclic sighing in particular

[22:53] is that long, slow exhale.

[22:56] We tend to say, when you want somebody to calm down,

[22:58] you say, take a deep breath.

[23:00] It's actually not the trick.

[23:02] It's not a good idea, because what

[23:05] you do to take a deep breath is you create

[23:08] a vacuum in your chest cavity that sucks in air from outside,

[23:12] and that has the effect of reducing

[23:15] blood flow to the heart.

[23:16] So the sinoatrial node in the heart

[23:19] says, wait a minute, decreased blood flow.

[23:20] We better increase heart rate to maintain full circulation

[23:24] of blood in the body.

[23:25] So it triggers increased heart rate and blood pressure.

[23:29] And what you do when you exhale slowly

[23:32] is you increase pressure in the chest.

[23:35] That's what forces air out into the world around you.

[23:38] And that increases blood flow to the heart.

[23:41] And so then the sinoatrial node thinks, well, OK,

[23:45] plenty of blood coming in.

[23:46] We can slow down heart rate.

[23:47] And that's a major trigger of parasympathetic activity.

[23:51] It's the rest-and-digest mode, and the ability

[23:54] to maintain it is a major regulator of heart rate

[23:57] variability, which you need to go to sleep,

[23:59] which you need to just rest and relax and rest and digest.

[24:03] And so cyclic sighing, in particular,

[24:05] triggers this parasympathetic response.

[24:13] SHUKA KALANTARI: Why do you think the breathwork,

[24:15] particularly cyclic sighing, but all three different kinds

[24:18] of breathwork overall had more of an effect

[24:22] on people's well-being and happiness than meditation?

[24:26] I found that really fascinating.

[24:28] DAVID SPIEGEL: Well, I would say in some ways,

[24:30] it's a little unfair to meditation

[24:32] in that the typical meditation practice is more like half

[24:35] an hour.

[24:36] It's not like the five minutes we did there,

[24:38] but we needed a reasonable control

[24:40] that people use and benefit from.

[24:43] But I also do think, from my work in hypnosis,

[24:46] that we have much more ability to control

[24:49] what's happening in our body than we give ourselves credit

[24:51] for.

[24:52] With these briefer techniques like breathwork,

[24:55] you can very quickly change what's going on in your body.

[24:59] So we can do things to regulate the way our bodies feel

[25:02] and the way we feel psychologically

[25:04] a lot more quickly than we give ourselves credit for.

[25:08] SHUKA KALANTARI: I'm curious how you would envision integrating

[25:12] these controlled breathing methods, like cyclic sighing,

[25:15] into the public, more specifically

[25:17] into medical settings.

[25:19] What would that look like?

[25:20] What would you aspire towards?

[25:22] DAVID SPIEGEL: If you have somebody

[25:23] who's anxious before a procedure--

[25:25] when you have something that can rapidly help people feel more

[25:29] relaxed as quickly as you and I did it together

[25:32] in about a minute, it's very useful before procedures,

[25:35] just calming people down and helping them do it.

[25:38] One very cool thing shortly after our paper came out

[25:41] was that Eric Adams, the mayor of New York,

[25:43] decreed that all the New York City schools would start the day

[25:47] with breathing exercises.

[25:49] He said, there's now published evidence

[25:51] that it helps relax people.

[25:53] And just to teach the students that they can get themselves

[25:56] in a frame of mind where they can learn more effectively.

[25:59] They're not so hyperactive.

[26:01] It can be a wonderful transition point

[26:03] to say, OK, I'm going to let the other attentions float away

[26:07] and put my body and mind in a state

[26:10] where I'm more open to learning.

[26:12] And I'd love to see more of that happening as well.

[26:15] SHUKA KALANTARI: What would you say to people

[26:17] out there who maybe have some trepidation, a fear of going

[26:21] to the body?

[26:22] DAVID SPIEGEL: I would say the way we live our lives ordinarily

[26:26] is a little bit like driving a car, but not having your hands

[26:29] on the steering wheel all the time.

[26:32] There are ways in which we can help

[26:35] our bodies help us live our lives more

[26:37] effectively and better.

[26:39] And we're used to the idea of physical exercise,

[26:41] but somehow we don't see ourselves

[26:44] as needing to train our minds to help us live better, too.

[26:49] All I'd say is try it.

[26:50] You'll like it.

[26:51] It's one of these things where the minute

[26:53] you can see how you make your body feel more comfortable

[26:55] and relaxed, stressors become less threatening

[26:58] because you can regulate your body's response to them.

[27:02] You're having trouble getting to sleep.

[27:04] I find cyclic sighing is very helpful.

[27:06] And this is not a huge commitment of time and energy.

[27:09] You can do something in five minutes or less

[27:12] that make your body feel better.

[27:14] We don't think we can do that most of the time, but we can.

[27:17] Our brains learn over time to address certain situations

[27:21] in ways that have worked before.

[27:23] Neurons that fire together wire together.

[27:26] And we know now that the brain is constantly

[27:28] reprogramming itself.

[27:29] And so if you handle stress better, over time,

[27:34] it'll become more and more automatic,

[27:36] like learning to ride a bicycle.

[27:37] You got to think about it a lot and practice it at first.

[27:41] And then you just do it instinctively

[27:42] because your brain has learned how to do it.

[27:44] So I would say to people--

[27:47] it's not a huge commitment of time and energy,

[27:49] but the rewards are great.

[27:54] SHUKA KALANTARI: Well, Dr. Spiegel,

[27:55] thank you so much for joining us on The Science of Happiness

[27:58] to talk about your work in cyclic sighing.

[28:01] I think I'm definitely going to try it out.

[28:04] DAVID SPIEGEL: Yeah.

[28:05] Good.

[28:05] Well, I hope you will.

[28:06] And you're welcome.

[28:08] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[28:12] DACHER KELTNER: Next week, Dr. Spiegel

[28:14] will be guiding us in a cyclic sighing session

[28:17] for our Happiness Break.

[28:20] Our associate producers are Emily Brower, Terrin Kutcher,

[28:24] and Anna Zhu.

[28:26] Our producer is Truc Nguyen.

[28:28] Our sound designer is Jennie Cataldo of Accompany Studios.

[28:30] Our executive producer is Shuka Kalantari.

[28:33] I'm Dacher Keltner.

[28:34] Thank you for listening to The Science of Happiness.

[28:37] Have a great day.

[28:37] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[28:44] ANNOUNCER: From PRX.

GG
Artist
Greater Good Science Center

Watch more from Greater Good Science Center on YouTube.

Website
Explore Topics
Cyclic-sighingBreathwork-for-anxietyStress-reliefBreath-hold-trainingStanford-research

Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

Cyclic sighing is a controlled breathing pattern with two inhales through the nose, first filling the belly and then the chest, followed by a slow exhale through the mouth that lasts about twice as long. The published instructions suggest repeating the sequence for about three cycles, then noticing how the body feels.
The episode describes Stanford research in which brief daily breathwork improved mood and physical arousal and tension, and the accompanying description says five minutes of daily practice can improve mood and lower respiratory rate. The material presents it as a science-backed practice, not a substitute for professional treatment of anxiety.
The episode points to about five minutes a day, which is the dose examined in the Stanford work discussed by David Spiegel. Practicing regularly over about a month is what the research reported as showing substantial effects.
The instructions ask for an exhale about twice as long as the combined inhales. David Spiegel notes that people tend to breathe too fast, so the extended, slow exhale is the deliberate correction the practice builds in.
Yes, the practice is designed to be portable. Sarah Gerhardt used it while stuck at an airport gate after a canceled flight, and she said she realized she had breathing practices for movement but none for sitting still and feeling nervous.
Breath-hold training, as Sarah Gerhardt describes it, teaches the body to stay composed while carbon dioxide builds and the urge to breathe rises. Cyclic sighing is a rhythmic practice for stillness and everyday calm, built around two inhales and a long exhale rather than holding air.

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