Transcript
[0:02] [Music]
[0:19] um hello I I just wanted to ask really
[0:21] quick how many of you in the audience
[0:23] are
[0:25] teachers all of you great well you can
[0:27] all just snuggle in down here and we'll
[0:29] just talk to each other in a big cuddle
[0:32] puddle um no I I I thought we would just
[0:35] we have a lot of us up here so we'll
[0:38] introduce ourselves one by one and maybe
[0:40] you can just say something briefly about
[0:44] you where you're from and then how you
[0:47] relate to this particular issue at hand
[0:49] which is the student teacher
[0:50] relationship and uh I guess I'll break
[0:53] the ice
[0:55] um so I I have a studio in New York and
[0:58] um I never intended to be a Yoga Studio
[1:01] owner which is probably the way of most
[1:03] yoga studio owners you kind of it hits
[1:05] you sideways but the way that it it came
[1:09] about was um like 10 or 11 years ago I
[1:13] was teaching at a at a studio even like
[1:16] part-time and mostly I was a film editor
[1:18] and the uh the director of that studio
[1:22] it came out was
[1:25] inappropriately what touching uh his
[1:29] students um mostly female students and
[1:32] it was you know it was really intense
[1:33] for all of us in the in the teaching
[1:37] Community there and so we kind of
[1:40] decided we had to leave but then we had
[1:41] to make a new home and um that's how my
[1:44] studio came to be it was really like
[1:46] okay what we need to make a refuge and
[1:48] I'm going to just going to do this for a
[1:49] year while we have this place to all
[1:52] kind of keep going and teaching on our
[1:54] students to come to and um and then you
[1:57] know 10 years later in the mines still
[1:59] but um but so I feel really connected to
[2:03] that that this particular issue which is
[2:05] of course only one aspect of
[2:08] the of the student teacher relationship
[2:10] and the obviously one which has
[2:12] resonated a lot this year and I just
[2:15] also want to say in getting started that
[2:17] that's what everything that happened
[2:19] with John friend and Ana SAR and it's
[2:21] happened you know many times and over
[2:23] and over again in in in the yoga world
[2:26] and in the larger wellness world and in
[2:29] the World At Large
[2:30] I want to also get beyond that as well
[2:32] we can certainly talk about talk about
[2:35] anasara but I'd also like to talk about
[2:37] the all of the other responsibilities
[2:39] that come up in the in the student
[2:41] teacher relationship as well as all of
[2:43] the incredible
[2:45] positive parts of that
[2:48] responsibility so um I will pass the mic
[2:51] to you okay my name is Ian and I'm a
[2:56] blissology and a surfer and I'm I I was
[2:59] just trying to answer where I live
[3:00] it's a difficult question but I live at
[3:02] many beaches around the
[3:04] world and I don't have a studio because
[3:07] I like to Surf and uh means I'm a bit of
[3:11] a commitment F but I do interact with a
[3:14] lot of students and I run teachers
[3:16] trainings and um you know I actually
[3:18] think we need more touch I really do I
[3:22] think that um you know I tell all the
[3:24] students in our teachers training that
[3:25] welcome to the world of yoga teaching
[3:27] and when you enter this world you are
[3:29] actually officially in the business of
[3:31] touch and um but it needs to come from
[3:33] the right place and uh you know my whole
[3:36] mission is to get in touch with this
[3:38] Force called love and uh to use it to be
[3:43] uh kind to my own body and our own
[3:45] bodies and to develop uh that same sense
[3:48] of kindness to our communities and to
[3:51] Nature and that's why I call blissology
[3:53] but just as as side that's why I'm
[3:55] stoked to be here at Wanderlust cuz it
[3:57] seems like that's going on here too and
[4:00] it's
[4:02] awesome hi there I'm Julia maab and uh
[4:05] I'm really quite excited because I live
[4:07] here in Whistler so it's pretty cool to
[4:09] have um amazing teachers here in my
[4:12] hometown I'm uh not used to speaking in
[4:14] a microphone I have sweaty
[4:18] armpits we're in front of people but um
[4:21] I'm here mainly because I I'm remember
[4:24] one am honored to speak amongst some
[4:27] amazing teachers but also I think it is
[4:29] a it's a it is a Hot Topic this year
[4:31] officially and um I too also have been
[4:34] uh holding teacher trainings for the
[4:35] last two years in Nicaragua and around
[4:38] the world I'm a little bit of a vagabond
[4:40] as well um between Whistler and
[4:42] everywhere else and uh yeah I think it's
[4:45] I think it's important um well I just
[4:48] want to actually just get into this
[4:49] discussion of it and see what comes
[4:51] about it organically and and give my two
[4:53] cents and also just hear some insight
[4:56] into what everyone else has to say
[5:02] I'm Chris Chavis and uh I'm technically
[5:05] from Los Angeles but also I live on
[5:08] planes uh so I get the chance to train
[5:10] teachers all over the world we do
[5:12] workshops trainings and and public
[5:14] classes and it is a very uh difficult
[5:18] issue and one of the things that uh I
[5:20] mean you just look at these amazing
[5:22] people up here and one of the things
[5:24] that I've realized in this past year and
[5:25] just actually from being invited to
[5:27] speak here is that um I think probably
[5:30] for the first time uh in yoga history
[5:33] and and possibly not I may be wrong but
[5:35] yoga teachers are becoming all things to
[5:37] all people uh because of the level of
[5:40] skill and education that the yoga
[5:42] teachers now have um there's a lot more
[5:44] responsibility on us as to what it what
[5:47] what it is we are doing and what we're
[5:49] sharing and obviously how we go about
[5:52] doing that is the question and um yeah
[5:55] and this is going to be an interesting
[5:57] debate and uh keep your hands with
[6:00] within the boundaries of the chair
[6:03] okay or
[6:05] not hi I'm Jason Nemer um I got an email
[6:09] from my friend Siana maybe six months
[6:11] ago she like you have to be on this
[6:13] panel and I saw the email I'm like this
[6:15] is just a spam email I didn't see it it
[6:17] never happened there's no way I'm going
[6:19] to sit on this panel this is just asking
[6:21] for a lot of fire and then I you know I
[6:25] felt the fire initially and I thought
[6:26] okay this is this is something that
[6:28] means something to me so when the second
[6:30] an email came from say I haven't heard
[6:31] back from you yet do you I was like okay
[6:34] I I really want to step up and to be
[6:36] able to share my perspective share my
[6:39] experiences and you know this is
[6:41] something that will never go away this
[6:43] is not something that we can solve but
[6:44] this is something that we have the
[6:46] opportunity to become more and more
[6:48] skillful and find the commonality
[6:51] between many different perspectives of
[6:53] what what is a skillful way to interact
[6:55] with students what is an honorable way
[6:57] to affirm yourself as a human before
[7:00] teacher and how does that how does that
[7:02] dance work with affirming what yourself
[7:05] is as a human and what your title or
[7:07] responsibility is as a teacher so I'm
[7:10] I'm excited to be here and thank you SI
[7:11] for the invitation for thisan forced
[7:15] invitation hi I'm Janet Stone and um hi
[7:19] I'm here because of her as well so um
[7:23] I'm based out of San Francisco and you
[7:25] know when when this came up it was to me
[7:28] the topic of trust that really sparked
[7:30] an interest and what that is to to have
[7:34] within yourself a trust and how that
[7:36] plays in the teachers that come into
[7:37] your life and also just in the sense of
[7:41] trusting yourself to remain a student
[7:43] and um on this journey it's it's there's
[7:47] a ton of projection there's a ton of uh
[7:50] transference and counter transference
[7:52] and all sorts of exciting stuff that can
[7:55] happen but if we really tend to that
[7:58] space within ourselves that we can trust
[8:02] and I feel like the teachers come our
[8:04] way and they come you know the students
[8:07] come our way as well so it's this
[8:09] counterbalance as well so I will be
[8:11] moving my hands outside the framework of
[8:13] my chairs as I pass this on to
[8:18] SI hello I'm Siana Sherman
[8:22] and I'm I'm feel really blessed to be on
[8:25] this panel I feel like it's time for us
[8:29] to have a beautiful mature conversation
[8:33] in the company of friends and open minds
[8:37] and courageous hearts and my wish is
[8:40] that this discussion really truly be for
[8:42] the benefit of all beings and that we
[8:45] can learn from each other and that yoga
[8:48] as a whole in our um worldwide Global
[8:51] yoga Community can actually flourish and
[8:54] Thrive from these types of conversations
[8:57] in the way that we're willing to show up
[8:59] you know in our our eles for ourselves
[9:01] and with each other and essentially my
[9:04] whole life has been um de devoted to
[9:08] being a student at of many different
[9:11] traditions and I've interacted with so
[9:14] many kinds of teachers along the way and
[9:17] I've become a teacher along the way but
[9:19] I primarily consider myself a student
[9:21] and so right now in this moment I am
[9:24] definitely a student on this panel
[9:27] and I I just want to thank everyone for
[9:30] coming so thanks for having and giving
[9:32] us the
[9:35] opportunity hi my name is Chris kerco
[9:38] and primarily I'm here because I'm Si's
[9:42] student and
[9:44] um and I think like you just heard Siana
[9:46] say that's generally how I I think of
[9:49] myself I think of myself as a student um
[9:51] I do teach yoga classes um in Portland
[9:54] Oregon where I live but I think of
[9:58] myself primarily as a student but I'm
[10:01] now starting to
[10:03] um I guess step into that role of of
[10:06] being a teacher you know inside myself a
[10:09] little bit more so I'm kind of on both
[10:10] sides of the fence and
[10:14] um yeah it's good for
[10:19] now so I want to make sure that we have
[10:24] aing we got it so we can kind of share
[10:27] two mics between each people and that
[10:28] way will messy so me and I will share
[10:31] and you guys can share so um I think one
[10:35] of the things that that is it's it's
[10:37] very interesting to me and and I and
[10:39] comes up a lot is the
[10:43] uh unarticulated nature of the of the
[10:48] yoga teacher in in regard to ethics
[10:51] because you know if you're a if you're a
[10:53] psychotherapist or you're a doctor or
[10:54] you're a
[10:55] priest um there are very clear
[10:59] guidelines
[11:00] boundaries and um and laws regarding
[11:04] ethical issues and it's you know like so
[11:07] many things in the world of yoga it's
[11:10] much more watery which is great I mean
[11:14] it's when I'm all for I just speaking
[11:17] personally I'm all for there not being
[11:19] boards and rules and the people who say
[11:23] exactly how how things should be and
[11:26] that we need to police and guide
[11:30] ourselves as a community of teachers and
[11:33] practitioners I think is one of the
[11:35] things that makes our our world so
[11:38] powerful but it's also it's very
[11:42] difficult to
[11:43] navigate and um and and there and there
[11:45] are lots and the boundaries are much
[11:47] more blurred than they would be in those
[11:49] other professions and ironically those
[11:52] are I mean the role of psychotherapist
[11:54] and doctor and priest or Priestess are
[11:59] the roles that that we're all playing at
[12:01] different times and it's a funny it's we
[12:03] all wear a lot of hats as teachers but
[12:05] there're but none of them are very
[12:07] clearly defined so I'm curious for those
[12:10] of you who who want to speak to it what
[12:13] you feel are the are the boundaries um
[12:17] on the on the not negative side but are
[12:20] the boundaries the containers that we
[12:21] need to put on ourselves as teachers and
[12:24] also the responsibilities on the
[12:26] positive side what are our
[12:28] responsibilities to our student students
[12:30] as guides as as teachers so I kind of
[12:34] open the
[12:35] floor looks like you're going to have to
[12:37] like pick people all right well okay so
[12:40] I I'm gonna I'll ask you Chris um you
[12:43] yeah you you just spoke up so you got it
[12:45] well one thing that you said that that
[12:46] that resonates a lot is that in in this
[12:50] emergent culture of yoga which is
[12:52] getting bigger and broader we are
[12:54] becoming more and more things to more
[12:56] people right so with that um give me you
[12:59] know give me your feelings on on the on
[13:02] the the framework that you see and in
[13:04] teacher trainings what do you say to
[13:06] your teacher trainees about about the
[13:09] student teacher relationship um well
[13:12] it's very clear that when you're a
[13:14] teacher especially when you're U an
[13:16] established teacher um students are
[13:19] coming to you for many things as as you
[13:22] described uh and that gives you a sense
[13:24] of power they they're literally giving
[13:26] you power um how you define that and
[13:28] what it is it's is as you said it's also
[13:30] not that clear um and so I think for me
[13:34] when I teach teachers is I I train them
[13:37] and I teach them that you have to honor
[13:38] that power because that that power comes
[13:41] with a high level of uh
[13:44] responsibility and uh when we are when
[13:47] you're teaching from the the place that
[13:50] is your truth you have to make sure that
[13:52] you're doing so in a way that is
[13:54] bringing out the truth of this the
[13:55] person that you are teaching and that
[13:58] student is a student because they may
[14:00] not know the way and your your job is to
[14:03] guide them in all areas of that way and
[14:07] I think sometimes what happens is um we
[14:10] are also human we're all human and so as
[14:13] we're moving forward along that path
[14:14] with the student it will waver sometimes
[14:17] and often times we don't know where the
[14:19] boundaries are until we've knocked up
[14:21] against them sometimes but don't you or
[14:24] do you find
[14:27] that within the context of being a a
[14:30] yoga teacher very often you are prepared
[14:34] or you've prepared yourself in your own
[14:36] path to be a guide of certain things and
[14:39] then it's asked of you yes to be a
[14:42] teacher and a leader and a a a a a force
[14:48] in something that you don't even feel
[14:50] that you're prepared to um I think two I
[14:54] think probably some of the issues that
[14:56] come up is is is often not just black
[14:58] and white as like a touch or something
[15:01] like that I mean sometimes the way that
[15:03] students will put their um their give
[15:05] you their power put give you power it's
[15:08] it's uh it's you don't recognize it
[15:11] sometimes it's not so clear I mean I had
[15:13] a student for example for uh many years
[15:16] he was a really good student of mine and
[15:18] you know he shared every aspect of his
[15:20] life with me you know and this started
[15:22] to grow and grow and grow and I just for
[15:24] a long time thought he was my friend and
[15:26] we're friends and he's my student until
[15:28] he gives me an envelope pull of cash
[15:31] right and it's like oh what do I do
[15:32] with this you know and and that was that
[15:35] was bumping up against did you it I I
[15:38] donated it to charity actually but it
[15:40] was I didn't know what to do with it
[15:41] because I'd never yeah just here's an
[15:44] envelope for your birthday here you go
[15:46] and and I said no this is inappropriate
[15:48] you know it's it's beyond this
[15:50] relationship it's not appropriate please
[15:51] take it back and he said No I gave it to
[15:54] you it's it you know and so that was the
[15:56] very first time that i' actually bumped
[15:58] up against a boundary because I was
[16:00] really just giving everything I had to
[16:02] whoever wanted to take it right and um
[16:05] and that was the first time that I
[16:06] actually realized wow there's there's
[16:08] some there's some really blurry edges
[16:10] here that you have to really be careful
[16:12] with you know and I've I've got and did
[16:14] did that change your relationship with
[16:15] that student did you have to set up like
[16:17] a set bound had to set boundaries and uh
[16:20] and I actually had to push him towards
[16:22] another teacher push him away basically
[16:24] you know and it was it was very
[16:26] difficult because as a teacher you want
[16:29] you wanting students right you but there
[16:31] was I could recognize after that that it
[16:34] was an unhealthy relationship you know
[16:36] what was he expecting from the cash I
[16:39] that's the not time I don't know I
[16:41] that's that's the problem you know is
[16:42] that they're that they uh a lot of times
[16:44] it's not clear even what students are
[16:47] expecting so at that point I always I
[16:49] just backed up and I said okay I have to
[16:51] make sure when I'm giving I give but I
[16:53] don't receive anything of expectation or
[16:56] and start to recognize it sooner as well
[16:59] yeah I I so I'll ask you Ian has
[17:02] anything ever happened for you in with a
[17:06] student that's felt like it's it's gone
[17:09] beyond the comfortable bounds of that
[17:11] relationship
[17:13] um yeah definitely I mean there's
[17:18] uh there's a uh a deep sharing of your
[17:22] soul when you're teaching yoga you are
[17:26] definitely you know we all talk about
[17:27] this this is not just a physical
[17:29] thing you know it's not this triangle
[17:31] pose but you are sharing the deepest
[17:33] part of you and and it is a it is
[17:35] definitely a physical thing and um you
[17:37] know there's definitely
[17:39] uh people who can become attracted
[17:43] because of that and um and what you have
[17:47] to do in those situations is really tune
[17:49] in I mean it kind of I just want to
[17:51] answer your original question it ties in
[17:53] with this and I don't really think so
[17:55] much about boundaries I think more about
[17:57] intention and for me what how I wrestle
[17:59] with this question is um what's what's
[18:02] my intention and the great thing about
[18:03] yoga is even when you're doing a
[18:06] physical yoga pose you know level one do
[18:08] this and if you want to go deeper why
[18:11] you know even at a 101 level we're
[18:13] trying to check in all the time and I
[18:15] think this is our work as yoga
[18:18] instructors and um as Chris was saying
[18:21] people with power is to really check in
[18:22] why we're doing what we're doing and and
[18:25] when I when I heard you ask the question
[18:27] what I was your original question and
[18:29] what I was thinking is it's the same
[18:31] thing I try and teach now my kid is that
[18:34] two things I mean I think kids will be
[18:36] fine no matter what experience they have
[18:39] if they have love in their life right
[18:42] and if they understand that their
[18:44] actions have
[18:45] consequences and this is what you need
[18:47] to do as a yoga instructor is really
[18:50] understand I mean me personally I feel
[18:51] like I'm I am a conduit for love that's
[18:55] what I'm doing and and what is
[18:57] love it's a difficult question I mean
[19:00] YouTube it and you get blackeyed Peas I
[19:03] did this I mean you get the blackeyed
[19:05] pe's and you actually get the Scorpions
[19:08] um you know so it's it's a complicated
[19:10] thing but to me what love is is it's the
[19:12] opposite of
[19:14] selfishness right and so there's a
[19:16] balance between your own personal
[19:18] desires and what you want and and you
[19:21] know your ego drive and then you have
[19:23] your connection to other people and what
[19:25] parenting teaches you is that actually
[19:27] someone else's needs are more important
[19:29] important
[19:31] and all the time I mean as a yoga
[19:34] instructor I think that it's your
[19:35] obligation to come back to that very
[19:38] basic model 15 20 times a day and check
[19:42] in like where are you on your balance um
[19:44] so to answer that in terms of your
[19:46] second question you know or even
[19:48] hypothetically let's say someone was
[19:49] interested in a sexual relationship or I
[19:53] mean I would just look at that and go
[19:55] that's me just on this side of the
[19:57] balance just concerned about my own
[19:58] selfish desires and and I'm not really
[20:01] looking at my connection to someone
[20:03] actually by going there I would create
[20:05] great harm I mean I would create harm to
[20:09] my relationships um someone I'm married
[20:12] to obviously um I would create harm
[20:14] probably to this person right and am I
[20:17] in the yoga business to harm people no
[20:21] I'm not and um but what if you I mean I
[20:24] have plenty of yoga teacher friends
[20:27] who've dated people who who were their
[20:29] students on the female and the male side
[20:31] and there is a
[20:32] time when you know you're you're having
[20:35] a there's a student that you're
[20:37] attracted to and they're attracted to
[20:38] you in a certain point you want to shift
[20:40] that relationship so I'm just curious to
[20:42] know I'll ask actually Janet have you
[20:45] have you ever dated no I mean we can all
[20:48] open this up but I I figure this is I
[20:50] mean this is
[20:51] obviously I don't I'm not it's not
[20:54] because I know anything about your
[20:55] personal life Janet tell us you're
[20:57] welcome to pass the m mic after you
[20:59] answer um but have you ever been in a
[21:01] situation where you've had there's been
[21:03] an attraction with a student and then
[21:05] you have to change the change the
[21:08] relationship in order to have a
[21:10] relationship with Integrity I guess is
[21:12] my question because it's absurd to say
[21:14] okay teachers can never date their
[21:16] students it just has to be done in in a
[21:20] respectful way where you you obviously
[21:22] are you go you go from being teacher and
[21:25] student
[21:27] before it's the relationship evolves to
[21:30] me that's that seems to be the the first
[21:33] clear step but um it's never happened to
[21:35] me I've been married for like 500 years
[21:37] so first of all I just want to know if
[21:39] these pants are
[21:42] inappropriate no no okay not at all yeah
[21:46] you're good okay it's all right okay
[21:47] then okay option um I have she's amazing
[21:52] under take them off because this
[21:53] actually thank you thank you no I
[21:57] feel I do feel a little bit better no I
[22:00] would never ever No it's it's B
[22:02] basically goes back to to what Ian was
[22:04] saying about um intention and integrity
[22:08] of course and also Clarity of um what
[22:12] the teachings are I mean I feel like
[22:13] teachers now are are no longer gurus in
[22:16] in our current culture and they're not
[22:18] aerobics teachers so we we're we're sort
[22:20] of somewhere in this weird slide and the
[22:23] conversation is now just beginning It
[22:25] Feels Like To Me Maybe it's been going
[22:27] on for a while but how do you make that
[22:29] transition how do you actually look
[22:32] toward what are the responsibilities for
[22:35] both people who are showing up that
[22:37] means the student and the
[22:39] teacher where you know in the sense of
[22:42] power you know I heard that term a
[22:43] couple of times and it just feels
[22:46] like as the teacher yes maybe someone
[22:49] wants to hand me their power but what
[22:51] I'm here for is actually as a conduit as
[22:53] a reflection back not so much to hold
[22:55] anybody's power for them my my journey
[22:59] fully is to just um reflect that back
[23:02] and really tend my own Road daily minute
[23:05] by minute second by second to make sure
[23:08] that my
[23:09] intention um is coming from the place I
[23:12] want it to come from because once again
[23:13] I mean there is there's a lot of Muddy
[23:15] Waters there's a lot of narcissism
[23:17] that's being fed and not I'm not saying
[23:20] that in a negative term it's just the
[23:21] ego of of both the teacher wanting to be
[23:25] uplifted and also um the student wanting
[23:28] to be
[23:29] uh seen and and sort of like you know
[23:33] carried like oh yes great and and sort
[23:35] of there's an agreement that happens
[23:37] sometimes to feed this type of dynamic
[23:40] and it's sort of um bringing light and
[23:42] awareness and even just acknowledgement
[23:44] into what that is you know and it
[23:47] happens um on such subtle levels and it
[23:49] happens on really big levels and and I
[23:51] feel like you know the amount of the
[23:53] touch the SE I mean I feel like that is
[23:55] just some very um um small well it can
[24:01] be big but byproduct of what of what the
[24:04] key the root is here of what what what
[24:07] are the teachings that are happening and
[24:10] yeah what is being sort of offered back
[24:12] and forth Jason do you have anything you
[24:13] want to say about this yeah that was a
[24:15] big evasion I mean interesting but I
[24:18] mean I guess I would say forget you I
[24:21] don't mean to ask about your personal
[24:23] life but I think it is it is an
[24:24] important thing to be able to talk about
[24:25] one second and I'd love to hear what you
[24:26] have to say but I but let's just say
[24:29] what what are you going to say to your
[24:30] teacher trainees if they were to ask
[24:31] well what if I have a student and I'm
[24:35] actually genuinely attracted to them and
[24:37] I I've thought about it and I know that
[24:39] it's not just a passing thing and I want
[24:41] to actually like how do I do this
[24:43] responsibly so what would you say I mean
[24:45] anybody who wants to speak i' love to
[24:46] chime in here so I don't know why it is
[24:49] I don't know if it's human nature I
[24:50] don't know if it's Western culture but
[24:52] you put the news on and you see all the
[24:54] gnarly things that happen in the world
[24:55] and you don't see the Beautiful Stories
[24:57] so I wanted to share a few beautiful
[24:59] stories that I've witnessed I was at
[25:00] this Retreat Center uh in Santa Barbara
[25:03] and there's this probably 60-year-old
[25:06] Mexican woman 60-year-old white guy and
[25:08] they came into the teacher training and
[25:09] they were offering their they do some
[25:12] Shamanism they do some different things
[25:14] like we just wanted to tell you our
[25:15] story because you guys are going to be
[25:17] yoga teachers and we have a really sweet
[25:19] story the woman was a yoga teacher the
[25:21] guy was the student and you know he
[25:23] shows up to the class and they fell in
[25:25] love and you don't choose who you fall
[25:27] in love with I in my experience love is
[25:30] you know one of the things you said
[25:31] about love is like how do you define it
[25:32] you know you YouTube it you Google it
[25:35] love is something that is a really
[25:36] mystical energy and we we work with
[25:39] mystical energies in this practice so
[25:41] when you fall in love with somebody from
[25:43] there there's a lot of very intelligent
[25:46] discernment choices that you can make
[25:48] based on your experience based on the
[25:49] people around you and they've lived like
[25:52] 40-year life together super in love some
[25:55] of you guys know the yoga Slackers Jason
[25:57] and Chelsea I talked to them they said
[25:59] it was okay I could bring up their story
[26:01] um Jason uh he went to a teacher
[26:04] training as a guest teacher for like
[26:06] three days as soon as he walked in the
[26:08] room Chelsea saw him he like oh my God
[26:10] that's my husband she saw it clearly she
[26:12] knew it he didn't see her at all in the
[26:14] beginning and you know there was some
[26:16] energy that was exchanged and every
[26:19] circumstance is going to have such a
[26:21] unique thing and something that I've
[26:22] learned from one of my um teachers he
[26:24] says there's not one technique for 100
[26:27] students but there's 100 techniques for
[26:29] one student so every individual
[26:32] relationship that you have as a yoga
[26:34] teacher you have a lot of opportunity to
[26:36] be very skillful in how you act and
[26:38] right now there is a lot of yoga Scandal
[26:40] that's been you know spread through all
[26:43] the different uh social media channels
[26:45] and people are reading that and really
[26:46] fixated on that and I've seen a lot of
[26:49] really beautiful relationships that come
[26:50] out of a teacher student relationship
[26:52] that can be navigated skillfully and in
[26:54] my experience the way that it can be
[26:57] skillful myself as a teacher am I doing
[27:00] things that I feel like I have to hide
[27:02] am I doing things that I feel like I
[27:04] could tell my mom about and this is my
[27:06] internal compass and everyone has a
[27:08] different internal compass and
[27:10] non-sustainable activities will not
[27:12] sustain if you're doing things that are
[27:13] hurting people again and again it's not
[27:16] going to bode well for you as a yoga
[27:18] teacher so I think to some degree these
[27:20] things work themselves out and it
[27:21] doesn't mean that you shouldn't talk
[27:22] about it I love that we're talking about
[27:24] it but I think that it can be balanced
[27:26] in how we look at things and um it is
[27:29] gray as as it has already been said so
[27:32] so do you feel and I'm I'll ask you but
[27:35] I'm curious to to know from anybody here
[27:37] do you feel like there is a place in our
[27:40] community
[27:42] for guidelines I mean because there are
[27:45] and there aren't you know everything at
[27:47] the end of the day right now you know
[27:49] there's teachings and there's precedent
[27:51] and there's you know basic human ethics
[27:54] but there there there isn't much in the
[27:57] way of
[27:59] of navigating rules and like I said I
[28:02] mean I'm all for kind of Anarchy Anarchy
[28:06] it because it creates a it creates
[28:09] choice and individuality and and
[28:11] creativity but sometimes it would be
[28:14] nice to have a touchstone so I I I still
[28:18] am I'm still interested to know what any
[28:20] of you who have a an opinion about it
[28:23] would say to uh a fellow teacher who
[28:25] came to you or a teacher trainee who
[28:27] came to you about how do I handle this
[28:29] I'd like to to chime in yeah um so it's
[28:32] a conversation I've been having
[28:34] recently and what's been offered to me
[28:37] and the thoughts that I've had around it
[28:39] that if you're going
[28:41] to if someone's your student and you're
[28:44] going you're interested they're
[28:45] interested in you you're interested in
[28:47] them it's probably good for them not to
[28:49] be your
[28:50] student at while you're initiating that
[28:54] relationship and to set that boundary as
[28:57] the relationship happen s if the
[28:58] relationship continues to flourish and
[29:01] they living happily ever after for the
[29:02] next 5 10 years then they might come to
[29:04] your class but it to to navigate both of
[29:09] those relationships at the same time
[29:11] starting a relationship and continuing a
[29:13] yoga teacher yoga student relationship
[29:16] has a lot of is is could be quite
[29:18] fraught with the power differential yeah
[29:22] I think that's that's the difficult
[29:25] thing is knowing when it's a
[29:27] differential and when it's just just
[29:29] chemistry right and I think uh I think I
[29:32] mean there's there's probably many
[29:34] markers and as much as there's not um
[29:37] one of the things when all of this stuff
[29:39] was happening this past year and I I
[29:41] think you're exactly right when you said
[29:42] this internal Compass uh the word Dharma
[29:45] was pushed around a lot and you heard it
[29:47] a lot and one of the interesting things
[29:49] that I thought is that Dharma or truth
[29:51] is has its own Survival mechanism it has
[29:54] its own life energy and so um if it is
[29:57] damaged in any way it'll sort itself out
[30:01] and uh in that when these things when we
[30:04] when our Dharma is not uh being served I
[30:07] think in some scale is it will affect us
[30:10] in our lives and like you said the
[30:12] internal Compass will either serve you
[30:14] well or bring you down can you give me
[30:16] an
[30:17] example you're
[30:19] just no I'm curious I mean in a from
[30:22] yourself or just in your experience no I
[30:25] mean it's it's Main you know like uh in
[30:30] my early days of teaching uh you know I
[30:33] was very much about giving is and and
[30:35] like he talked about the concept of love
[30:38] you know and um and when there are many
[30:41] people that will come and they need love
[30:42] in their life and there's many people
[30:44] who are lonely and they need
[30:46] companionship and they will come to the
[30:48] yoga teacher and if the yoga teacher is
[30:49] just open giving giving giving they
[30:52] sometimes misinterpret that uh they will
[30:55] take it in in the wrong way um but as he
[30:58] said there there needs to be more touch
[31:00] um I had an example in a yoga class when
[31:02] I was a young teacher and and it was it
[31:04] it really affected me for the rest of my
[31:07] up until now I had a student that came
[31:09] into my class and she was just doing a
[31:11] downward facing dog and I just put my
[31:13] hand on her back and she started to cry
[31:15] and I was I was a little freaked out I
[31:17] was like oh what did I do you know and
[31:19] she came up and she said well you may
[31:21] not be able to appreciate this because
[31:22] you're a young guy she said but um you
[31:25] know I'm in my late 50s early 60s and
[31:27] when you touch touched me I I couldn't
[31:29] remember when the last time I was
[31:31] touched with affection was and oh I'm
[31:33] going to cry
[31:34] now um yeah so in that sense I was I was
[31:38] I was really blown away so as Ian said
[31:41] there is uh here I'll give it to you
[31:44] make sure finish no no I'm G to cry he's
[31:46] going to cry but you know you know I
[31:48] mean I love what everyone said so far
[31:51] really with everyone but uh you know
[31:53] when someone's not coming from that
[31:55] space that Chris is trying to describe
[31:57] right like um I'm actually coming back
[31:59] to question you asked me a while ago now
[32:01] sorry I keep answering your questions
[32:03] after you ask me a couple but um but uh
[32:08] I was actually thinking about it I'm
[32:09] like I I I start every yoga class with a
[32:12] hug like I mean everyone we hug that's
[32:14] what we do I'm not joking I'm I we
[32:17] literally it's non-authoritarian it
[32:19] freaks people out from the East
[32:22] Coast but that's what we do it's non
[32:24] Authority you don't have to but um and
[32:27] and um and I think that's what people
[32:29] need I mean we live in a world where if
[32:31] you cut yourself as a school kid uh the
[32:34] teachers can't put Band-Aids on you I
[32:36] mean we've completely let go of touch um
[32:39] which is horrible and I think we got to
[32:40] counter that but you know when someone's
[32:43] coming from a place where they they have
[32:46] power which was what Chris was
[32:48] addressing before and they're just
[32:49] taking advantage of that you know
[32:51] basically it's an unlevel playing field
[32:53] like you are not you you're this person
[32:57] that uh
[32:58] when they see you the person will kind
[33:01] of throw their moral judgment away and
[33:03] just like this guy's a guru or this guy
[33:05] is um a rock star and actually that's
[33:08] one thing I want to mention is you know
[33:10] I saw this movie last night about it and
[33:11] I think this might help our conversation
[33:13] too because it's so personal as yogis
[33:16] and what Janet was saying are we gurus
[33:17] or are we yoga teachers I mean one thing
[33:19] that gets thrown around a lot is Yogi
[33:20] rock stars and I mean it's like we're
[33:23] musicians no I mean no matter what you
[33:25] know what what musicians do and what
[33:27] yogis do is as mus as a yogi um people
[33:30] you know you walk around like life is
[33:31] pretty good or maybe it's all about
[33:33] worries or problems and then you know
[33:34] they do it when you hear good music you
[33:36] basically go you hear the song and all
[33:39] of a sudden you're like oh my God life
[33:40] is amazing let's sing and this is what
[33:43] we do as yoga teachers as we get people
[33:46] to sing inside you know and so it's this
[33:49] elevation I think this is the connection
[33:50] between yogis and maybe not rock stars
[33:52] but musicians uh so where I'm going with
[33:55] this is and and and and hopefully this
[33:57] makes it less personal for us is I
[33:59] watched a documentary last night about a
[34:02] musician and I won't mention the name
[34:04] but I mean this is someone who I love
[34:06] you know one of my top five uh musicians
[34:08] I admire and uh his wife was in the band
[34:12] and he had affairs all over the world
[34:15] with all these different um I don't know
[34:18] groupies um whatever you would call them
[34:21] and uh to me it I went oh it doesn't
[34:24] really fit with how I would do things
[34:26] and even when I was listening to the
[34:27] music that he was teaching and like
[34:29] doesn't really fit there but there's two
[34:31] things one is you realize that some
[34:33] people when they do what they're doing
[34:34] whether it's teaching yoga or not
[34:36] there's something that comes through
[34:37] them in that moment and it brings out
[34:39] their best you know and then that kind
[34:41] of hypnotizes other people to um not
[34:46] view their actions outside of that you
[34:49] know and um and and I think I'm I'm all
[34:53] for not having guidelines you know I'm
[34:55] with you but we have to have a a
[34:56] check-in all the time time right and and
[35:00] the people in relationship I mean yoga
[35:02] is really about the yoga of relationship
[35:04] the people all involved with that
[35:05] relationship need to H talk it out so
[35:08] this guy who's a musician not a yoga
[35:10] teacher he's a musician and he said he
[35:12] needs to say to his wife who's in the
[35:13] band hey I'm going to Shag this woman
[35:16] now and um he has to say look to her I'm
[35:19] in a committed relationship or you know
[35:21] I'm in a relationship anyway and are you
[35:23] cool with this and this has to and and I
[35:28] don't know probably if you look at that
[35:29] scenario someone's going to get hurt you
[35:32] know and so really as a musician or yoga
[35:34] teacher you have to go am I okay with
[35:36] hurting someone in order to me feel my
[35:39] physical needs and maybe abuse power to
[35:41] get there but I would go so far as to
[35:43] say that that that I and I do agree with
[35:46] you that there there are um there are
[35:49] similarities in the in the role of the
[35:54] musician and the and the yoga teacher
[35:55] just in that just by virtue of leading
[35:58] something leading something that
[36:00] inspires good feelings in people is it
[36:02] creates that Dynamic but if you're you
[36:06] know no one judges a rock star for
[36:10] proflat fathering or mothering fathering
[36:14] you know multiple children out of
[36:15] wedlock or whatever married or not
[36:18] married is really immaterial but I think
[36:21] the the the difficulty with being a yoga
[36:24] teacher is we don't take vows we aren't
[36:27] we don't have don't you know the the the
[36:30] priest who has to Le be defrocked in
[36:32] order to get married it's very clear
[36:35] what's happening if we're talking about
[36:37] these you know moving past these
[36:39] boundaries but we don't have these
[36:40] boundaries and very often I feel like
[36:43] yoga teachers we sort of slip into this
[36:46] role of having a greater responsibility
[36:50] to our we start out teaching AA yeah
[36:53] most of the time we start out oh I love
[36:55] this this feels good I'm going to start
[36:56] teaching this and then it gets
[36:58] much heavier and people come to you
[37:01] because they're sick and you you become
[37:04] you become responsible for their
[37:07] wellness and or helping them through
[37:10] their sickness or their parent dying or
[37:13] their child's Pro I mean it be it gets
[37:16] very deep very quickly if you continue
[37:19] long enough and we I and it's just it's
[37:23] it's a it's a really it's it's a tough
[37:25] it's tough to be able to assume that
[37:29] role responsibly when you haven't really
[37:32] prepared yourself for it unless you just
[37:33] happen to have a very strong moral
[37:35] compass and so yes jenet one sec I guess
[37:38] one thing that I would like to ask
[37:40] anybody who really wants to speak to it
[37:42] is because we don't have um we don't
[37:46] have board we don't have ethics boards
[37:48] and we don't we even have a book or a
[37:51] manual that talks about this how do you
[37:55] handle this when it happens among your
[37:57] peers
[38:00] you can pipe in I'm going old school
[38:02] please has anyone heard of the eight
[38:06] limbs I know I've uh I'm just going to
[38:10] pull out the eight limbs as as the the
[38:12] rules and guidelines I mean it's a moral
[38:14] compass is very movable it's a movable
[38:18] thing and I feel like the eight limbs if
[38:20] you're actually um in this practice and
[38:22] really immersed in this
[38:25] practice and not just doing a chatarunga
[38:28] actually with Aima and with truthfulness
[38:32] and it aligns up from heels to Crown of
[38:34] the head but it lines up from when you
[38:36] wake up in the morning to when you go to
[38:37] bed and I just wanted to hand it off to
[38:39] SI and see if she had anything to
[38:41] say thank you I like the old school
[38:45] thanks what what I'm thinking about
[38:47] really is the teachers commitment to
[38:50] their own
[38:51] practices as the ground for all of this
[38:56] to unfold it it's I mean there there can
[38:59] be the conversation of what we should do
[39:01] from the outside in the way of creating
[39:04] a code of conduct and you know a
[39:06] touchstone as you said which is a nice
[39:09] way to say it but ultimately the
[39:12] responsibility is going to have to be a
[39:14] natural and spontaneous upsurge from the
[39:17] grounds of being inside each teacher and
[39:21] in yoga you know no matter what
[39:23] tradition or style we're practicing
[39:26] every single tradition of Y yoga calls
[39:28] us to
[39:29] self-recognition calls us to practice so
[39:32] that we polish the mirror of our hearts
[39:34] so that we can really see the situation
[39:37] clearly and when those
[39:40] situations arise that we remember the
[39:43] vamara shaki the reflective power of the
[39:47] moment to that whatever the situation is
[39:50] it has to bounce back inside of us to
[39:52] look deeper and to grow ourselves
[39:54] because of that so you know I I I shared
[39:58] a relationship with a man for 5 years
[40:01] that began as my student and it was one
[40:04] of the most extraordinary um
[40:07] relationships of my life one of the
[40:08] greatest loves of my life and when he
[40:11] showed up you know we knew pretty
[40:14] quickly that there was a great
[40:16] attraction and then we sat down and we
[40:18] had a conversation you know and and we
[40:21] said okay is this are you having this
[40:23] attraction I'm having it I started
[40:25] having dreams about this student and so
[40:27] what I I would do is I would do my
[40:29] practices and check in with myself and
[40:32] ask like what is this about you know am
[40:33] I projecting am I as the teacher
[40:36] projecting something because we often
[40:37] hear oh the projection coming onto us
[40:40] but there there's multiple directions of
[40:43] this and um as we're all you know in the
[40:48] purificatory fires of yoga you know
[40:51] teachers and students a lot comes to the
[40:53] surface and we're in a collective Shadow
[40:55] dance you know in a certain way too and
[40:58] so we have to keep bringing it back to
[41:00] ourselves and knowing ourselves so when
[41:03] this man and I we sat down and we talked
[41:05] and we had a very real and beautiful
[41:08] conversation and we chose that we would
[41:10] explore the relationship and so I said
[41:13] well if this is our choice then um I I
[41:17] really want to ask you to find other
[41:19] teachers because I don't want to be your
[41:21] teacher and your lover you know that's
[41:23] it it's just too much for me to consider
[41:26] so we just got really clear with it and
[41:30] I do not regret that choice that was one
[41:32] of the most gorgeous experiences of my
[41:35] life so I wouldn't want to take that
[41:36] away from anyone but I would just keep
[41:38] saying that we have to keep encouraging
[41:41] each other go to your practices you know
[41:45] eight limbs um your whatever you're
[41:48] committed to and dedicated to in your
[41:50] practices know your intention and really
[41:52] know it you know know it clearly know it
[41:55] fully not sort of guessing what your
[41:57] intention is or sort of halfway showing
[41:59] up but show up fully and start by
[42:01] showing up fully in yourself and then we
[42:04] can make really conscious skillful
[42:06] choices and that's what yoga is skillful
[42:09] choices in the world that's rooted from
[42:11] the ground of our being which is love
[42:13] which is recognition which is the pulse
[42:16] of the essence of life itself so I my I
[42:20] guess what I really want to say is every
[42:22] teacher and every student practice
[42:24] practice know yourself and have a mature
[42:27] beautiful skillful conversation and and
[42:29] make smart choices you know and and be
[42:32] accountable for what is your stuff you
[42:35] know and that includes the teachers and
[42:38] the students all of
[42:40] us and which makes complete I mean I
[42:43] totally agree and I I think I think
[42:45] we're all in agreement here that the
[42:47] that the main the thing is to shift the
[42:50] power I mean that it's very important
[42:51] that if it's if there's any kind of a
[42:53] student teacher relationship that
[42:55] develops Beyond just being
[42:58] fairly clear that it needs to that that
[43:00] Dynamic needs to shift first and I'm
[43:02] interested to note that it worked and
[43:04] I've seen it work with lots of teachers
[43:06] that I know who' have ended up you know
[43:07] not necessarily in long-term
[43:09] relationships but that it's been a
[43:11] mature and
[43:13] sustainable relationship from teacher to
[43:15] student but I'm also interested to know
[43:19] because I I definitely agree about it
[43:22] coming back to being your own clear
[43:24] mirror but at the same time I'm in
[43:27] interested in as a collective how we
[43:30] handle these issues and not just in in
[43:33] the sexual realm in just inow Dynamics
[43:36] when you see a teacher who you know they
[43:38] may not be hitting on their students or
[43:40] anything like that but you see them take
[43:43] taking their power in an inappropriate
[43:46] way in you know becoming an ego
[43:49] relationship instead of an actual fluid
[43:53] channeling relationship so I'm just
[43:55] curious to know if any of you here have
[43:56] had that had that experience with with a
[43:59] peer whether it's a teacher who teaches
[44:01] at your studio or a teacher that you
[44:03] teach with because I I think since since
[44:05] we are our own Collective group of
[44:09] ethicists as it were it's a difficult
[44:13] it's a difficult position to be in with
[44:15] your peers so see somebody else
[44:17] completely take advantage of their
[44:18] situation yeah and whatever that may be
[44:21] but and have how have you handled it
[44:23] like as a for me to observe a teacher
[44:25] taking advantage of another student
[44:26] situation
[44:28] um oh man oh I was going to say
[44:31] something else but
[44:34] now
[44:37] um you know I think that number one um
[44:40] you know it's me I personally when I
[44:43] when I come into the studio um call me a
[44:46] bit of a prude but I I enter the space
[44:48] and I really see it um I really diffuse
[44:51] any kind of um energy that might be
[44:55] considered sexual or anything Beyond um
[44:59] you know my role as a teacher I tell my
[45:01] teachers in my teacher training that
[45:02] number one teacher first before even
[45:06] being a friend teachership becomes um
[45:08] before friendship even so there's a
[45:10] certain I know right away for me I I can
[45:14] diffuse any energy that's coming at me
[45:17] from a weird funky angle um but in terms
[45:20] of actually observing another teacher
[45:23] getting involved it's it's tough if it's
[45:25] a really good friend of mine that I'm
[45:26] teaching with I might like you know be
[45:29] able to have a one-on-one and and and
[45:32] give them my insight but I mean
[45:35] ultimately what can you do I'm not going
[45:37] to I can't necessarily police the
[45:40] actions of my friends and and do you
[45:42] feel like it's not it's not your role I
[45:44] mean which is a totally valid answer I'm
[45:48] not looking for right or wrong at all I
[45:49] mean I don't even know what my opinion
[45:50] is necessarily but I'm curious to know
[45:53] you know are we each other's moral
[45:56] compass or are we you know do we not
[45:58] even with a friend but with yeah within
[46:01] our community sure I've been in classes
[46:03] where I've seen uh teachers
[46:05] inappropriately touch um and one of the
[46:07] fascinating things that you realize is
[46:10] they're not aware that they're doing it
[46:12] right they may they may touch and
[46:13] actually I saw a teacher recently who is
[46:16] probably one of the most sweetest Souls
[46:18] on the planet that you could ever meet
[46:20] and he was touching really lightly in an
[46:22] essential way only because he didn't
[46:24] want to disturb the students energy so
[46:26] he thought that was a way of respecting
[46:28] the student whereas the student may take
[46:31] that totally differently right and I saw
[46:34] it in a different way so I mean one of
[46:36] the things when I see that I mean most
[46:38] of the time when I go to a class or some
[46:40] the teacher will sometimes ask
[46:42] afterwards so you know what do you think
[46:44] or you know whatever um and in a
[46:46] situation like that I just hey you know
[46:48] uh maybe on the physical adjustments you
[46:51] could be a little bit more you know
[46:52] stronger with your hands or a little bit
[46:54] more precise in the way you touch
[46:56] someone and and a couple of times I've
[46:58] had that conversation oh because it
[47:00] looked like to me like it was it could
[47:02] be seen as sensual so just be careful
[47:05] with that and just do this and this you
[47:06] know um but it's not necessarily a sense
[47:09] of policing as it is is I know the guy's
[47:12] soul I know that guy and that's not his
[47:15] intention and so I mean and I've also
[47:18] been in classes where the teacher has
[47:20] that intention and I just you know it's
[47:23] not I didn't feel comfortable talking to
[47:26] the teacher about it instead you know I
[47:28] just didn't go back I'll what I just
[47:32] said um you know I've had some friends
[47:34] um when I was teaching elsewhere inste
[47:36] of Whistler where a student was giving
[47:39] them gifts like big money big money
[47:42] items like like literally like a a
[47:44] washing machine I need those students
[47:47] yeah like cloth started off with little
[47:49] little items like clothing and then um
[47:52] like tickets to concerts and it was
[47:55] really repetitive and it was becoming
[47:56] this uh from the outside in I I didn't
[47:59] receive any of these gifts but from the
[48:00] outside in I could see that it was very
[48:02] much the student wanting to
[48:06] somehow own or or have part of that
[48:10] teach own power Dynamic for sure so I
[48:12] did say something and that still didn't
[48:15] stop that teacher that collection of
[48:17] teachers that was rece that was they
[48:19] were all receiving these really big item
[48:21] gifts where to a point where I think
[48:22] there was actually a car involved yeah
[48:25] and so I I don't know I I don't know if
[48:28] that was actually if they actually took
[48:30] the car but um you knowjust
[48:33] were can we do a workshop on those
[48:35] adjustments but I I thought that this
[48:37] was incredibly inappropriate I right
[48:39] from the start even um I feel
[48:41] uncomfortable to a certain extent it's
[48:42] fine to from time to time if a student
[48:44] gives you a small gift or a token of of
[48:48] Love or they you know that's really
[48:49] sweet and I really take that with um
[48:51] kindness especially if a letter or
[48:53] something really from the heart but um
[48:55] that was an example where I did say
[48:57] something and it was still wasn't taken
[49:00] into consideration you know ultimately
[49:03] it's up to each individual to take
[49:05] responsibility for their own whatever
[49:07] they decide to do with their role as a
[49:09] teacher you can you
[49:11] know yeah I think I think our community
[49:14] is so in touch with each other I mean we
[49:17] have it's interesting because what's
[49:19] really happened in our world is Yoga has
[49:21] become really popular and so is the
[49:22] internet you know I think people are
[49:25] having these conversations a lot on the
[49:27] internet and not everyone's going to
[49:28] feel the same way CU I actually think
[49:30] that the goalposts are actually more
[49:33] shiftable than you may think I mean even
[49:35] in the eight limbs you know I used to
[49:37] date someone and she was like no it's
[49:39] all about cleanliness outa you know I'm
[49:40] like no no it's about if I mean like
[49:42] Brar I mean really would like there
[49:44] would be no dating at all exactly
[49:45] exactly like no it actually means no
[49:47] love no sex outside the relationship
[49:48] like no no it means it means actually no
[49:52] sex right and um you know so there's so
[49:54] much up for interpretation even within
[49:57] the eight limbs I think I really do but
[50:00] um and I think that what's kind of going
[50:02] on organically just really needs to step
[50:04] up cuz I really don't think we need a
[50:06] board to judge yoga ethics I mean I
[50:09] don't know how you feel but as yogis we
[50:11] check in with our bodies and I feel like
[50:14] oh we becoming one of them well
[50:16] ultimately the the on the I mean on the
[50:19] positive side I do feel like I think
[50:21] Chris you were alluding to this too is
[50:23] that these things do come out in the
[50:25] wash I mean it does it all comes around
[50:28] and because we are not the the small
[50:31] town Parish priest who's doing this or
[50:34] that or your Doctor Who or your
[50:36] psychotherapist who have it's PE you
[50:38] know your students always have the right
[50:39] to leave for whatever reason if they're
[50:41] getting a bad if if it's if there's a
[50:43] bad relationship anywhere and then
[50:45] eventually your studio or your community
[50:49] will resolve the issue and you know even
[50:52] if it's even if it's intensely painful
[50:54] and difficult the way it was with John I
[50:57] do feel like the community resolved the
[50:59] issue and it didn't need a board of
[51:01] Ethics it it it as difficult as it may
[51:04] have been it it made its way through its
[51:07] own system and you know I think that's
[51:10] the that's the really positive thing
[51:12] about an organism that is flexible and
[51:16] creative and self- responsible I guess I
[51:19] guess the point I want to quickly make
[51:21] and I'll then I'll stop talking about is
[51:24] that the role of the students to not
[51:27] give their power away you know because
[51:30] this is what we do continuously and um
[51:33] you know my friend Joel Kramer he talks
[51:34] you writes whole books about this but to
[51:37] not just give power away to people but
[51:40] to keep holding them accountable and I
[51:42] think that's the other part of it that
[51:43] needs to be educated is you know not
[51:46] just the role of the teachers but the
[51:47] role of the students well and that your
[51:49] role as a teacher ultimately is to teach
[51:52] the student that they are their own
[51:53] teacher and you are just a one of you
[51:56] are one particular conduit for whatever
[51:58] particular body of information you may
[52:00] be transmitting But ultimately this is
[52:02] the great thing about our tradition is
[52:06] that we are everyone is their own
[52:08] teacher ultimately they own their their
[52:10] own best teacher here here here here so
[52:13] um we have to wrap it up and I want to
[52:14] leave some time to take some questions
[52:16] from you guys um but I guess I want to
[52:19] um I want to end on uh a couple quick
[52:22] questions we'll just go down the line
[52:23] two questions the first is what is the
[52:27] um and if you just want to pass you can
[52:28] pass what is the a a a positive
[52:33] responsibility that you have as a
[52:36] teacher in in that you didn't expect
[52:38] that you were taking on when you first
[52:40] became a teacher what did you not yet
[52:43] know that you were going to have to
[52:47] embody as part of your teaching role and
[52:51] if you if you don't have an answer
[52:52] that's okay too this there's there's no
[52:54] you won't we won't make you stay
[52:59] so for me one of the most positive
[53:00] things that I've really been stepping
[53:02] into especially this year is just the
[53:05] the shifting of My reality that
[53:07] difficult situations difficult students
[53:10] are not I I haven't painted them as good
[53:13] or bad I'm really just taking on these
[53:16] these things as um an ability for me to
[53:18] sharpen my tools and I want to do a lot
[53:20] of really big beautiful things in the
[53:21] world so being able to um recognize and
[53:25] realize that when there are are really
[53:28] daunting things that are in front of me
[53:31] being able to take a breath and know
[53:32] that these things are here to affirm who
[53:35] I am and to give me tools that will
[53:37] support my students so that's been a
[53:39] really positive thing that I hadn't seen
[53:41] coming and it's uh it's a good year to
[53:43] be practicing that way in my experience
[53:45] it's been a lot that's been shifting and
[53:48] um yeah
[53:51] good I wasn't aware that people excuse
[53:54] me would actually listen to me
[53:59] and and the biggest the biggest thing
[54:03] I've learned about that is to Simply
[54:05] only
[54:06] teach from my own experience because if
[54:09] I'm teaching from any other place then
[54:13] they're listening to something that
[54:15] isn't that isn't true and now that I've
[54:18] learned that they actually do listen to
[54:19] me I do that much much more in my
[54:21] planning of my classes and any teaching
[54:24] that I offer and make sure that it's
[54:26] something that I've
[54:28] experienced and that resonates with
[54:32] me
[54:36] yeah I I wasn't quite prepared for you
[54:40] know all the agulation and praise you
[54:43] that would come with the territory and
[54:44] along with that you know the the blame
[54:48] as well it's it's very babat Gita you
[54:51] know um the praise and the blame kind of
[54:54] come hand in hand and two sides of the
[54:56] the same coin so as I deepened into
[55:02] teaching and going there you know
[55:03] there's so much that comes and you have
[55:05] to field it and it's so easy to want to
[55:09] say yes to the praise and like thank you
[55:11] thank you and then when the other thing
[55:13] comes you know oh I didn't like the way
[55:15] you said that or did that or you did
[55:17] this it's very you know that's more
[55:19] difficult to receive so I think one of
[55:22] the greatest Integrations really that
[55:27] has been happening and will always
[55:28] continue is that I get out of my own way
[55:33] and allow the experience to unfold you
[55:37] know for each person's journey and then
[55:40] ultimately um I know that I'm a
[55:43] facilitator of a facilitator of safe
[55:47] space that people can tap into
[55:49] themselves and they might have to go
[55:51] through all sorts of stories where maybe
[55:53] I'm the one that they think for it or
[55:55] the one that they are not you know
[55:57] feeling so grateful to at the moment but
[56:00] that I have to get out of my own way for
[56:03] to be that clear conduit and channel and
[56:06] that's the practice all the time and you
[56:09] know one of the ways I think of
[56:10] brahmacharya actually since that word's
[56:12] been brought
[56:14] up okay so we go of celibacy you know
[56:17] this this um view of it but I also look
[56:20] at it as the acharia is the one who
[56:22] walks the one who walks the path of
[56:25] Brahma and Brahma meaning like the
[56:27] universal so uh walking the path of
[56:31] cultivating a continual remembrance of
[56:34] the bigger flow of what's actually
[56:35] happening and that I am doing the best I
[56:39] can in this human body and with the gift
[56:42] of my voice in my particular way of
[56:44] expressing these teachings But
[56:46] ultimately the the you know I'm being
[56:50] I'm a servant of the shocky and I am
[56:53] going to do my best to remain in that
[56:55] flow and to walk that
[57:00] path
[57:02] um what she
[57:05] said no I mean for real what she
[57:09] said I think for me um one of the things
[57:12] I wasn't prepared for is um not being
[57:16] able to turn teacher off like uh those
[57:19] of you guys I mean travel
[57:20] internationally you spend a lot of time
[57:22] um with students outside of class as
[57:24] well so you are always is um in one
[57:28] sense elevated but you're you're
[57:30] literally called to be your higher self
[57:32] all the time you know there's been many
[57:34] times where you know I've been in
[57:37] traffic and I'm ready to flip a finger
[57:39] out the window somebody will pull up
[57:41] alongside me and go hey I was in your
[57:43] class last week you know so you know is
[57:46] is that is you know and and and I'm
[57:50] human right I'm human but also to
[57:52] recognize it is that now what's being
[57:55] called to me is to be
[57:57] the best self that I can be all the time
[58:01] which then is self inquiry to go within
[58:03] and say what is that self where is my
[58:05] Truth where is it coming from and then
[58:07] do the best that I can to act from that
[58:09] space is it going to be perfect no
[58:11] absolutely not my wife will tell you
[58:12] that but um but as long as I think as
[58:16] we're doing the best that we can and we
[58:18] are checking into our hearts and saying
[58:20] where's this coming from why am I doing
[58:22] this and and just keep coming from that
[58:24] space and keep sharing from that space
[58:26] and I think it it'll all work out and so
[58:29] would you say that
[58:31] um at go in that shift from from student
[58:34] to teacher you were forced to live your
[58:38] yoga more this is where you're
[58:40] absolutely 100% yeah and and that that
[58:43] for me now it doesn't feel like it ever
[58:45] turns off um and and and sometimes it's
[58:49] exhausting and then sometimes it's it's
[58:51] a reaffirmation that I'm doing what I'm
[58:53] supposed to be doing so when I step into
[58:56] it it's awesome when I fight it it
[58:59] sucks with
[59:01] that I would agree with Chris that that
[59:03] I wasn't expecting um you know when I
[59:06] amped up my teaching and especially
[59:08] doing teacher trainings and then living
[59:09] in a small town and um you know being in
[59:13] the you know grocery grocery store
[59:15] lineup and bumping into all my students
[59:17] and then that same night going out to
[59:19] the you know the bar with a friend and
[59:21] you know the friend passes me her drink
[59:24] and then her cigarette to hold then I'm
[59:25] standing out on the IO and it's like my
[59:28] certain the the duty of a yeah as a
[59:31] teacher/ student and uh it yeah and one
[59:34] way it has made me a better person but
[59:37] to also if I feel like flipping the bird
[59:40] and if I feel like having a drag of
[59:42] their
[59:43] cigarette I should be okay with that and
[59:45] I shouldn't have to explain myself
[59:47] because again we're all human and none
[59:49] of us are Buddhas and none of us are
[59:51] perfect but let me bring let me just
[59:53] bring it back around to to um to my
[59:55] initial question which was which is not
[59:58] unrelated to to to this issue of of who
[1:00:01] you are and who you become because of
[1:00:03] the the path that we on as teachers but
[1:00:06] um I'm interested in as in what you feel
[1:00:11] like what you were what you didn't
[1:00:13] expect that your responsibilities would
[1:00:15] contain how how
[1:00:18] encompassing your job would be does that
[1:00:21] make any
[1:00:23] sense like I mean I know for myself I I
[1:00:27] I very much started teaching as an aena
[1:00:30] teacher I mean that's really where I was
[1:00:32] coming from I'm about to bring people
[1:00:34] into their bodies so that they felt
[1:00:35] better in their bodies so they could be
[1:00:38] better people simply because they felt
[1:00:40] better in their bodies very much where I
[1:00:42] was practicing from and where I started
[1:00:44] teaching from and then I was very
[1:00:46] surprised at how quickly
[1:00:49] I people expected me to be responsible
[1:00:53] for their heart and their health their
[1:00:56] larger health and their soul and so
[1:00:58] because they expected that then I had to
[1:01:01] step up to the plate as best I could
[1:01:04] which was awesome and awful all at the
[1:01:06] you know at the same time but I'm I'm
[1:01:09] just curious to know on the um because
[1:01:12] the the negative sides the the barriers
[1:01:14] are are pretty obvious and have been
[1:01:16] hashed out a lot but I also think
[1:01:19] there's this amazing elevation and Grace
[1:01:22] that comes with being put in a position
[1:01:25] to help help people help themselves and
[1:01:29] um so I'm just interested in in in your
[1:01:31] own in all of your personal experience
[1:01:34] where that beautiful opening
[1:01:38] happens um in in what's like could be is
[1:01:43] it could be seen negatively as a as a
[1:01:45] power sharing relationship but that's
[1:01:47] the it's the lovely part of the really
[1:01:49] lovely part of the of the student
[1:01:51] teacher relationship which we all know
[1:01:53] is is the the greatest the most of it is
[1:01:56] this amazing exchange otherwise we
[1:01:58] wouldn't all be participating in it um
[1:02:01] does that make any sense
[1:02:03] yeah I think as a i to I totally get
[1:02:07] what you're saying and but I think also
[1:02:09] it's to not get too overwhelmed or um uh
[1:02:14] you know if if a student is
[1:02:19] um I guess like when when if a student
[1:02:22] comes to me and they have uh like a
[1:02:23] matter of the heart I'm there to listen
[1:02:26] and to hold space but I'm not going to
[1:02:28] get too overly involved or too connected
[1:02:33] or too attached to what their life
[1:02:36] experience may be so if um there's a
[1:02:39] certain um kind of I don't know there's
[1:02:42] a certain diffusing that I do as a
[1:02:44] teacher um where it's I'll I'll be a
[1:02:47] part of that process and I'll listen and
[1:02:48] I'll be more a space holder than
[1:02:51] anything and I think that as soon as I
[1:02:53] go home and think my God I'm all this
[1:02:56] and this person is coming to me with all
[1:02:58] their stuff then then it becomes a big
[1:03:00] thing when I make it a big thing then it
[1:03:02] becomes a big thing but if I if I'm just
[1:03:05] there as as a part of their experience
[1:03:08] like in a as a as a circle and their
[1:03:10] growth much was saying about being a
[1:03:13] part of the reflection yeah and I think
[1:03:15] that there's just got to be like a like
[1:03:16] a a almost a tacit understanding between
[1:03:19] teacher and student that I'm not their
[1:03:22] psychotherapist I'm not their
[1:03:24] physiotherapist I'm not their their
[1:03:26] certain Prof like professional roles
[1:03:28] that we as as yoga instructors try to
[1:03:31] take on and it's it's just too much like
[1:03:33] the weight of the world at the end of
[1:03:35] the day yeah we're create we're creating
[1:03:37] a beautiful experience for them on the
[1:03:38] mat we
[1:03:40] establish sometimes um the odd
[1:03:42] relationship like uh that is special
[1:03:45] like Sienna was saying her experience
[1:03:47] with her five-year relationship and
[1:03:49] that's I think that's really special but
[1:03:51] that's also unique um you know when I
[1:03:53] enter the the classroom again I don't
[1:03:56] ENT it and see it as a as a dating pool
[1:03:58] I see it as an experience where I'm
[1:03:59] going to be teaching people what I know
[1:04:02] to the best of my ability and um
[1:04:06] yeah I kind of went off in Tangent there
[1:04:11] but um actually my background is a
[1:04:14] little bit different because I got into
[1:04:16] yoga through philosophy my um I got into
[1:04:19] philosophy because my inspiration when I
[1:04:21] was in high school was Joseph Campbell
[1:04:23] and he said follow your bliss and the
[1:04:25] second part of that is follow your bliss
[1:04:26] and where once there were walls soon
[1:04:29] there will be doors and um so I thought
[1:04:32] about it long and hard I'm like what is
[1:04:34] my Bliss and and similar to what
[1:04:36] everyone's expressed here and when I've
[1:04:37] said already my Bliss is actually being
[1:04:39] a conduit for love um so I wented to
[1:04:41] study philosophy which is how I got into
[1:04:44] yoga philosophy and Eastern religions
[1:04:46] and meditation yoga um and then my
[1:04:49] original goal was to be a professor of
[1:04:52] the philosophy of love I mean check that
[1:04:55] out for a re a
[1:04:58] powder and uh and actually yoga came
[1:05:01] afterwards the physical yoga practice I
[1:05:02] never thought I could teach yoga because
[1:05:04] um I was so tight I mean I was a extreme
[1:05:07] sport athlete and um it just came so
[1:05:10] easily to so many people I'm like Oh my
[1:05:12] go and then it took me a lot of
[1:05:13] confidence to be like oh if I can just
[1:05:15] get true on this love message that
[1:05:17] doesn't matter about how physically
[1:05:19] adapt you are um so where I wanted to go
[1:05:22] with this is what that I knew I I
[1:05:25] understood the Campbell message of like
[1:05:27] follow your bliss and things are going
[1:05:28] to somehow work out what I didn't know
[1:05:31] is the what I call now the Ganesha
[1:05:33] principle which is tied in with when I
[1:05:36] surf the Whitewater principle what I
[1:05:38] mean is it the doors just don't
[1:05:41] open um that there's obstacles that are
[1:05:44] always put in your way um so from day
[1:05:48] one when I first started teaching yoga
[1:05:50] in Vancouver there was only one other
[1:05:52] Yoga Studio in Vancouver and there was
[1:05:54] just a kind of handful of yoga teachers
[1:05:55] I'm like I I know the city is ripe for
[1:05:57] yoga um and and so I started renting a
[1:06:01] space and teaching yoga and no one
[1:06:03] showed up no one I mean for two months
[1:06:07] right no one and I'm like I know I'm
[1:06:09] ready to do this I know it's my mission
[1:06:11] and and to me I look at that now and go
[1:06:13] that was Ganesha saying to
[1:06:16] me why are you doing what you're doing
[1:06:18] and are you willing to do what you're
[1:06:20] doing for
[1:06:21] free are you willing to actually pay
[1:06:23] money to do this cuz that's what it
[1:06:25] amounted to I was renting into space and
[1:06:26] not having anyone come right and and in
[1:06:30] surfing you know I'm a surfer I looked
[1:06:32] at this and everyone looks at pictures
[1:06:34] of Surfing you watch Surf Videos you're
[1:06:36] like oh my God those guys just ride
[1:06:37] waves all day but mostly what you do is
[1:06:39] paddle right and you got to go through
[1:06:42] this white water and sometimes it's
[1:06:43] terrifying you mean you look at these
[1:06:45] massive waves and you got to somehow go
[1:06:47] under it and to me that's Ganesha in the
[1:06:49] water right and it's the same thing this
[1:06:52] Ganesha principle makes you go why am I
[1:06:55] doing what I'm doing doing I mean why am
[1:06:57] I not just sitting on the beach having a
[1:06:59] margarita with everyone else on the lawn
[1:07:00] chair right and and what will happen if
[1:07:03] I can align my passions with the outer
[1:07:06] world and um and and Magic happens when
[1:07:08] you get out there and that's what I
[1:07:10] really learned is just this whole
[1:07:12] Ganesha principle and what a gift these
[1:07:15] obstacles really are and what a chance
[1:07:18] this really is to learn and thinking
[1:07:20] about the larger context of our
[1:07:21] conversation it does tie in because I
[1:07:23] feel like you know there's a reason why
[1:07:25] we're all having this convers ation and
[1:07:27] I feel like this whole thing is one big
[1:07:30] obstacle in front of a lot of people and
[1:07:33] it's making us really get clear and it's
[1:07:35] a big blessing Underneath It All and
[1:07:37] we're so fortunate to have it so um I
[1:07:40] hope we can um you know be be not just
[1:07:44] mirrors for each other but support
[1:07:46] systems because you're right we're out
[1:07:47] to
[1:07:48] see we're paddling around and and and
[1:07:50] there's currents pulling us every which
[1:07:52] way and we're not giving a map we're
[1:07:54] just trying to figure it out and so we
[1:07:56] actually need our community to go hey
[1:07:58] how about this how about that and and
[1:08:00] this didn't really work or and you might
[1:08:02] have to justify and then we go oh okay I
[1:08:04] get it right um so these obstacles are
[1:08:07] are beautiful and that's what I really
[1:08:08] learned is that and it and it and it is
[1:08:11] our gift in front of us now with this
[1:08:14] conversation good we put okay so I think
[1:08:18] we'll open the floor up for about 10
[1:08:20] minutes of questions if anyone has any
[1:08:23] yeah hello I'd like to ask the panel
[1:08:25] where they see yoga in 100 years from
[1:08:28] now both in terms of the teacher student
[1:08:32] relationship and any rules or
[1:08:34] regulations that I personally would
[1:08:36] regret being
[1:08:39] introduced
[1:08:41] 100 I think it's coming but it won't be
[1:08:43] our
[1:08:44] [Laughter]
[1:08:48] concern so I feel like um something that
[1:08:51] I saw in Jamaica that really just moved
[1:08:53] me is this group called yoga angel ual
[1:08:56] and they teach children how to teach
[1:08:58] other children yoga and there's just so
[1:09:00] much about certification and you have to
[1:09:03] do it this way and this is right yoga
[1:09:05] and this is wrong yoga and I see a big
[1:09:08] trend of people in the Parks sharing the
[1:09:11] love of movement sharing the love of
[1:09:12] yoga and um it's never going to take
[1:09:15] away from what it is to study from a
[1:09:17] really rich lineage of people that have
[1:09:20] tremendous knowledge that have traveled
[1:09:21] the world and there's something really
[1:09:23] beautiful about transmission um based
[1:09:26] yoga so I feel like in a 100 years I
[1:09:29] think that the the pyramid will keep
[1:09:30] climbing there'll be teachers that know
[1:09:32] even more and have gone even deeper in
[1:09:34] their practices but there's going to be
[1:09:36] a huge Foundation of people that are
[1:09:38] willing and able to share their joy for
[1:09:40] yoga with their grandma with their
[1:09:42] friends with with everybody that's
[1:09:45] that's my vision my
[1:09:47] hope hope you
[1:09:50] read um I hope that it's uh officially
[1:09:54] allowed in
[1:09:56] hospitals and like settings like uh I
[1:09:59] mean it already is it officially allowed
[1:10:02] in hospitals or is it you know like like
[1:10:04] an actual like to be able to have like a
[1:10:06] yoga therapist come into like is it do
[1:10:09] that happen now maybe in
[1:10:11] Canada okay then they in a really like
[1:10:15] modern modern hospital but you can't
[1:10:18] wear those gowns cuz in downward
[1:10:23] do um and also I think what you see up
[1:10:26] here is you see a lot of people that are
[1:10:28] following their truth and and doing the
[1:10:30] best to bring that out in the world and
[1:10:33] I think uh yoga will come off the mat
[1:10:36] and it's going to start to spread into
[1:10:38] areas of society where people are just
[1:10:40] really encouraged by people like this to
[1:10:43] do what you love and do it in a in a and
[1:10:46] in doing so it becomes a spiritual act
[1:10:49] and I think I think we're going back
[1:10:51] that way so I think it's awesome and I I
[1:10:54] see the integration you know so on the
[1:10:57] mat off the mat and the integration of
[1:11:00] all the practices of yoga um once more
[1:11:05] coming into a flourishing place um
[1:11:09] inside the practices so the ASA is very
[1:11:13] prevalent for many people and it's great
[1:11:16] because Asa just breaks you open it it
[1:11:19] cracks you open and you students are so
[1:11:24] much more willing to explore
[1:11:26] everything that yoga has to offer so I
[1:11:28] see yoga coming into the hearts of so
[1:11:32] many um in this integrated way and
[1:11:35] meditators all over the planet and I
[1:11:38] think that that would be an outrageous
[1:11:42] Act of yoga for as many people as
[1:11:45] possible to be deeply meditating and
[1:11:48] studying and living in as harmonious
[1:11:51] ways as possible with the planet and
[1:11:53] with each other actually can I answer
[1:11:55] this exactly and I I think that um I
[1:11:58] hate to say it but I think we're going
[1:12:00] to have a board I think we're going to
[1:12:02] have a yoga ethics board and it deflates
[1:12:05] me to see it but I think it's coming I
[1:12:08] think so because okay if if if if it
[1:12:12] keeps getting if the popularity Trend
[1:12:14] keeps going I mean this is the whole
[1:12:16] thing is we're lucky right now that we
[1:12:18] can be our own mirrors as we keep
[1:12:19] talking about I you know it's it's it's
[1:12:21] a it's a real Heyday you know uh it's
[1:12:24] we're we're lucky to live live in this
[1:12:26] period where at least we can um decide
[1:12:29] what's uh works for us or not um but as
[1:12:34] anything gets bigger it's like it gets
[1:12:37] codified and if the you know basically
[1:12:41] think that's the point that it'll
[1:12:43] transform I hope it doesn't you know I
[1:12:45] think this is the big beautiful thing
[1:12:46] that we've got going on in the yoga I
[1:12:48] hope it doesn't but uh human nature
[1:12:50] Being Human Nature I mean tell me uh you
[1:12:53] know okay here here it is is that um you
[1:12:55] we're we're trying to work this out and
[1:12:56] you know all of us all of us everyone
[1:13:00] partaking listening to this conversation
[1:13:01] is trying to work it out and that's a
[1:13:03] beautiful thing but
[1:13:06] uh it's it's it's difficult and I and I
[1:13:09] I I just look at so many other things I
[1:13:12] mean I think we're Mystics you know I
[1:13:14] hear a lot of mystical thing and the
[1:13:15] thing about Mystics versus religions is
[1:13:17] that religions live in answers and
[1:13:20] Mystics live in qu in questions right
[1:13:23] and we're trying to live in questions is
[1:13:24] this right is this not right does this
[1:13:26] feel good does this not feel good but um
[1:13:28] you know it's if I look at try and name
[1:13:31] to me anything outside of this yoga
[1:13:34] realm that is still I mean I don't know
[1:13:37] you know you tweet something wrong in
[1:13:38] the Olympics and you get kicked out
[1:13:40] right I mean there's everything has a
[1:13:41] governing body right and you know who
[1:13:44] thought we were going to have a a
[1:13:46] standard for yoga teachers trainings you
[1:13:48] know for what it is to have a 500 hour
[1:13:50] yoga teacher training that used to be
[1:13:52] that used to be um you know not long ago
[1:13:55] 5 10 years ago that was just hey you you
[1:13:58] you can work that out but now we have
[1:14:00] kind of actually I mean it's toothless I
[1:14:03] mean really but and this is this is off
[1:14:05] topic but I do think it totally relates
[1:14:08] and and I mean I don't disagree with you
[1:14:10] but I hope you're wrong I hope I'm wrong
[1:14:12] too I hope I'm wrong too believe me no I
[1:14:14] know you do and but it only will happen
[1:14:16] if enough people capitulate and the end
[1:14:20] the yoga teacher like that it's really
[1:14:23] it's a it's a it's a sham organization I
[1:14:27] mean you know not I mean not to say that
[1:14:29] there isn't any I mean it only exists
[1:14:31] because the larger Community has agreed
[1:14:35] more or less that we
[1:14:37] need we need some sort of structure to
[1:14:41] say what is and what isn't but it
[1:14:43] isn't it isn't any more than our
[1:14:46] collective decision that the yoga
[1:14:48] Alliance means something does that make
[1:14:50] any sense if we had an Ethics board that
[1:14:53] was no more than that I think it's
[1:14:54] something that people could live with if
[1:14:56] it became something that was actually
[1:14:59] governed on high that's something else
[1:15:02] entirely and believe me the state is
[1:15:05] trying to get in on it right I mean this
[1:15:07] in the same way that the state is the
[1:15:08] state I don't know if it's happening in
[1:15:10] all states but in New York in two years
[1:15:11] ago the state tried to come in and
[1:15:14] govern yoga teacher trainings so the
[1:15:16] yoga Alliance is it's it's our own
[1:15:17] community's basic collective decision to
[1:15:20] have a governing body but if New York
[1:15:23] State came in in the same way that they
[1:15:25] regulate
[1:15:26] massage if they came in and they
[1:15:29] regulate our our teacher trainings and
[1:15:32] then come to regulate our whole industry
[1:15:35] that will be when an Ethics panel gets
[1:15:39] established by by an outside body does
[1:15:42] that make sense and we it was fought by
[1:15:45] all of the small studios in New York
[1:15:47] that said absolutely no we don't want
[1:15:49] the state governing and that's going to
[1:15:51] have to happen Community by community
[1:15:53] and state by state
[1:15:55] on all of those levels if we do not want
[1:15:58] our industry to be co-opted and what we
[1:16:01] are is we are a huge collection of
[1:16:03] cottage industries right now and if we
[1:16:05] want to keep it that way it's that as
[1:16:08] cottage industries we come together and
[1:16:09] we say no we don't we don't we don't
[1:16:11] want actually a governing body we want
[1:16:13] to be a collective anyway that went way
[1:16:16] off topic
[1:16:18] um um anyway
[1:16:22] yes hi um so I have a comment and a
[1:16:25] question my comment is um that like
[1:16:28] Chris I come into this community
[1:16:31] primarily in studentship but I do have
[1:16:33] another life uh as a professor in a
[1:16:36] university and one of the things that
[1:16:38] strikes me about the yoga Community when
[1:16:40] they start talking about ethics and
[1:16:42] boundaries is that they think there's
[1:16:43] something very special about being a
[1:16:45] yoga teacher and you wouldn't have
[1:16:48] thought that someone whose job it was to
[1:16:50] teach 17th century British poetry would
[1:16:53] have had to learn all the very same
[1:16:55] things that you say you've had to learn
[1:16:57] Skylar I have to talk to students about
[1:16:59] their own cancers I have to talk to
[1:17:00] students about their dying parents about
[1:17:02] their pregnancies so my wish for the
[1:17:05] yoga Community especially in matters of
[1:17:07] ethics and boundaries is that they would
[1:17:09] learn from other communities of teachers
[1:17:12] I never hear anyone in the yoga
[1:17:13] Community talk about talking to teachers
[1:17:16] in communities that have very very well
[1:17:19] developed and sophisticated
[1:17:21] conversations about sexual ethics we do
[1:17:24] have rules and guidelines but we also
[1:17:26] have a kind of um welldeveloped way of
[1:17:31] thinking and talking about these things
[1:17:32] that I feel like is so nent it's so new
[1:17:35] in the yoga Community it kind of blows
[1:17:37] me away so I think in response to what
[1:17:39] you said Ian I want to say you're
[1:17:41] actually not at Sea you're not out in
[1:17:43] the middle of nowhere every great art
[1:17:46] and practice in this world has teachers
[1:17:49] and every long-standing community of
[1:17:50] teachers has come up against issues of
[1:17:52] ethics and boundaries because teaching
[1:17:54] is a poorest way to choose to spend your
[1:17:57] life I'm curious to know your opinion
[1:18:00] though do you feel like those um and I
[1:18:03] ABS I completely agree with you and I
[1:18:05] don't think that I don't think that um
[1:18:08] that the yoga Community is actually
[1:18:09] operating in in a bubble that doesn't
[1:18:12] think that these there aren't all of
[1:18:13] these kind of rules out there and in the
[1:18:15] same way that I say that there is this
[1:18:17] funny relationship between being a a
[1:18:21] professor or being a doctor or being a
[1:18:23] psychotherapist I mean all of these all
[1:18:25] of these do but I think the point I'm
[1:18:27] trying to make is about teaching and
[1:18:29] that's why when when people have the
[1:18:31] conversation about what's the difference
[1:18:32] between a yoga teacher and a rockstar
[1:18:34] invariably they start talking to you
[1:18:36] about yoga and I want to say the
[1:18:37] difference between a yoga teacher and a
[1:18:39] rock star is that a yoga teacher is a
[1:18:40] teacher yes I would agree that's what
[1:18:43] makes the difference it's a slightly
[1:18:45] different kind of teacher I would say I
[1:18:48] would I mean I I I there in the in the
[1:18:51] power
[1:18:52] Dynamic relationship and navigating
[1:18:55] those
[1:18:55] those murky waters I agree that that
[1:18:58] that's inherent in any student teacher
[1:19:00] relationship and I agree with you that
[1:19:01] those those are these are issues that
[1:19:03] have been hashed out in the academic
[1:19:05] world and resolved to some extent and to
[1:19:07] some extent are always being rehashed
[1:19:10] but I think that there is something that
[1:19:14] is
[1:19:15] [Music]
[1:19:17] um inherent
[1:19:19] to what happens in a yoga class that's
[1:19:23] different than what happens in art
[1:19:25] history class look at what you're
[1:19:28] wearing number one um but you know what
[1:19:30] I'm saying I mean I do feel like there's
[1:19:32] an there's an intimacy and there's
[1:19:35] a there are boundaries that are bust
[1:19:39] open
[1:19:41] emotionally
[1:19:42] erotically
[1:19:44] psychologically that that happen in yoga
[1:19:47] classes all the time that aren't
[1:19:49] happening on a regular basis
[1:19:52] academically I don't know I have to say
[1:19:53] after 20 years at least in the
[1:19:55] humanities I would have to disagree with
[1:19:57] you I mean I watch students taught by
[1:20:00] great and the better the humanities
[1:20:01] teacher and I I can't speak to the
[1:20:03] Sciences the better the humity teacher
[1:20:05] the more the student has the experience
[1:20:07] of being worked over from the inside out
[1:20:10] in a way that we would really resonate
[1:20:13] with I think what you mean we just don't
[1:20:14] touch them I think what you mean by
[1:20:16] better is more passionate right like
[1:20:18] more yeah or something I mean I don't
[1:20:21] know what it is all I'm saying is that
[1:20:22] that cuz what you're saying about our
[1:20:23] history teacher I mean if art history
[1:20:25] teacher really wears their heart on
[1:20:27] their sleeve I think they'll have lots
[1:20:29] of people who are attracted to them
[1:20:31] versus saying things by wrote and just
[1:20:34] you know repeating the same notes that
[1:20:36] they just repeated last semester but
[1:20:38] it's also great training I mean I know
[1:20:40] that we feel as yoga teachers that we're
[1:20:42] responsible for the whole being but it's
[1:20:44] also been really great training and I
[1:20:46] feel like you really spoke to this Julia
[1:20:48] in being a good listener and then saying
[1:20:50] to my students and that is not my
[1:20:52] department you know that is not and
[1:20:54] here's who to speak to or to go to if
[1:20:56] you want but you know I will hear you
[1:20:58] but it is absolutely I don't feel
[1:21:01] responsible for taking care of part in
[1:21:03] either of my lives as a yoga teacher or
[1:21:05] when I was a mountaineering instructor
[1:21:06] before I was an English Professor I also
[1:21:08] wanted to do that I think I I'm really
[1:21:10] nodding a lot over here because I come
[1:21:12] from a family of teachers I come from a
[1:21:14] mom and a dad are teachers and my
[1:21:16] sister's a a a teacher now a principal
[1:21:19] so I grew up in a teaching community and
[1:21:21] I grew up with um watching and observing
[1:21:24] my par parents teaching and help um in
[1:21:27] very sticky situations maybe not
[1:21:29] necessarily um impassioned ones like
[1:21:31] we're speaking of but um really really
[1:21:34] angry parents or um um you know just a
[1:21:37] lot of situations my parents were thrown
[1:21:39] into the fire quite a bit as teachers
[1:21:41] and I honor School teachers whooo I like
[1:21:44] have so much respect for school teachers
[1:21:46] completely underpaid profession if you
[1:21:48] ask me but um but I think through
[1:21:51] observation of just watching my mom my
[1:21:53] mom was like my number one teacher and I
[1:21:56] just watched her listen more than
[1:21:57] anything she was an active listener but
[1:22:00] was still able to give out quite a bit
[1:22:02] of love and um and had such great love
[1:22:06] from her her community of students so um
[1:22:09] yeah I think that ultimately it's our
[1:22:11] choice it's our inner Choice as a
[1:22:13] teacher to decide um do I get swept up
[1:22:16] in this moment or do I um just just hold
[1:22:20] the space and and be here for this
[1:22:22] person in in a kind and um but
[1:22:25] professional way and I think yeah I
[1:22:28] think this I think this circles back to
[1:22:32] what I was saying about you teachers now
[1:22:36] not not professors but School teachers
[1:22:39] in the public school system can't put a
[1:22:40] Band-Aid on a student because I mean it
[1:22:43] that's taking that's taking the logic of
[1:22:48] of controlling and creating rules and
[1:22:51] ethics and boundaries so far and so far
[1:22:55] away from where I think we all agree
[1:22:57] that we want to be as a community that
[1:22:59] we would so I mean I think we would
[1:23:01] agree that we would so much rather
[1:23:02] suffer the pitfalls of there being
[1:23:05] people who go go over the boundary or do
[1:23:09] something inappropriate and that that
[1:23:11] are that it will it will be resolved
[1:23:14] with it within ourselves in in in in a
[1:23:16] in maybe a messy way so much better that
[1:23:19] than there are being rules about how
[1:23:21] exactly you can adjust a student I mean
[1:23:24] that's this this not really speaking to
[1:23:25] what you're saying but I mean I I agree
[1:23:27] but I but I also am very glad that we're
[1:23:30] not in the academic world where it's
[1:23:32] like you'll get fired you will lose
[1:23:33] tenure if you date a your student in
[1:23:36] some places you know and I I I'm glad
[1:23:39] that we're not in that I'm glad we're
[1:23:41] not in that in a structure like that
[1:23:43] personally yeah and and actually the
[1:23:45] academic world is moving away from that
[1:23:47] into into more nuanced I mean that's
[1:23:49] what I mean when I say the conversation
[1:23:50] is the conversation is happening the
[1:23:52] conversation that you are yearning for
[1:23:54] is happening
[1:23:55] and you know we could do I I think all I
[1:23:57] wanted to say is we could do a better
[1:23:59] job of actually talking to people in
[1:24:01] other fields who thought these things
[1:24:03] for a lot longer we always talk about
[1:24:05] like this is such a new problem for us
[1:24:06] and it's like well you know well it's
[1:24:08] the oldest it's the oldest problem I
[1:24:10] mean just read the Bible or anything
[1:24:13] or so anyway yes I I wasn't trying to
[1:24:16] say when we're out at Sea that we're
[1:24:17] thinking that we're the only people have
[1:24:19] his problems cuz yeah exactly what you
[1:24:21] said it happens in music it's it's and
[1:24:24] and I salute all teachers I mean you're
[1:24:26] just inspiring people and we want to
[1:24:28] learn from you yeah we're totally open
[1:24:30] into having conversations with other
[1:24:32] disciplines and as yoga teachers we are
[1:24:34] multifaceted beings so we are teachers
[1:24:37] some of us do Kyon we turn into rock
[1:24:40] stars some of us you know we have so our
[1:24:43] massage therapists so all these
[1:24:45] different fields that have dealt with
[1:24:47] these things I think it is smart to look
[1:24:49] at what what does the law say about a
[1:24:50] massage therapist what does the law say
[1:24:52] about um a scientist or a professor and
[1:24:55] I think there is a lot of wisdom and
[1:24:57] again we are multifaceted creatures that
[1:24:59] find hundreds of ways into students
[1:25:02] hearts and I come back for me to
[1:25:04] sustainability if if people are making
[1:25:07] the same mistake again and again and
[1:25:08] again it's our opportunity as community
[1:25:11] members to be like yo this is not
[1:25:13] looking good this is not feeling good
[1:25:15] why why is this happening again so I
[1:25:17] think that Community is is one answer
[1:25:20] not necessarily rigid rules but also
[1:25:21] just knowing that um you know this comes
[1:25:23] from the movie spider- man with great
[1:25:25] power comes great
[1:25:27] responsibility this is real and the more
[1:25:29] yoga you do the more powerful you become
[1:25:32] the more people you can touch the the
[1:25:34] more that you'll need the support of
[1:25:35] your peers because people can get really
[1:25:38] drunk on Power and it's really important
[1:25:39] to as we all rise each other up that
[1:25:42] there is the the potential that we can
[1:25:44] say Hey you know tone it down a little
[1:25:46] bit here sober up a little bit because
[1:25:48] it is people people can have a really
[1:25:50] good relationship with alcohol people
[1:25:51] can know exactly how to use it some
[1:25:53] people have really bad relationships and
[1:25:55] I think that power is is something that
[1:25:57] people can get drunk on and um you know
[1:26:00] can I just leverage off that a little
[1:26:01] bit I mean because I think we know all
[1:26:03] know the issue that we're you know
[1:26:05] talking about and and to me it was like
[1:26:07] um to just to bring it back to that
[1:26:09] topic and
[1:26:11] uh I wasn't surprised at all what
[1:26:14] happened in the anusara community I mean
[1:26:16] it didn't I'm I'm I've never been to an
[1:26:19] anusar yoga class in my life I'm one of
[1:26:20] the few people in the planet but I was
[1:26:22] always talking to people
[1:26:25] um about and that was my big thing is
[1:26:27] like how can you give up so much power
[1:26:30] to the system right cuz when I saw about
[1:26:33] anara I was like looking at I'm like
[1:26:34] this is a beautiful system but it kind
[1:26:36] of negates other systems in a sense that
[1:26:39] it's not anusara I mean it's not yoga is
[1:26:41] good for you but anusara yoga is good
[1:26:43] for you and the language of that is what
[1:26:45] bothered me and seemed to really put the
[1:26:48] leader up on a pedestal and everyone not
[1:26:50] everyone but it seemed like there was a
[1:26:51] lot of giving up of people's uh power to
[1:26:56] a guru so to speak and um and that was
[1:27:00] you know I didn't think the whole thing
[1:27:01] would crumble the way it did but um but
[1:27:04] it was a check-in for that you know I
[1:27:07] just wanted if everyone to speak to that
[1:27:10] point I think all systems run the risk
[1:27:13] of
[1:27:14] insularity you know whatever field it is
[1:27:17] or whatever tradition it is and and and
[1:27:21] that's a real concern and a and a a real
[1:27:24] contemp compation you know that if
[1:27:26] within a system of course if someone's
[1:27:28] deeply aligned in a system and that's
[1:27:29] what they're choosing and devoting
[1:27:31] themselves to on some level they do
[1:27:34] think it's the best but the remembrances
[1:27:37] is that it's the best for that
[1:27:39] individual and that in that particular
[1:27:41] wave of time and you know for me I've I
[1:27:46] was with anusar from from it's Little
[1:27:50] Seedling days from the very
[1:27:52] beginning and I can tell you what with
[1:27:54] all honesty I never experienced anusara
[1:27:58] as the best I it for me it was a it was
[1:28:01] a the most
[1:28:03] gorgeous Solid Ground that I could plant
[1:28:07] my feet in and grow my creativity and
[1:28:10] collaborate with all my friends I mean
[1:28:13] this is how I met Janet and um Jason and
[1:28:17] Nicholas and Amanda you know I was an
[1:28:19] anusara teacher but we wo together we've
[1:28:23] been weaving together for several years
[1:28:25] you know as multiple traditions and it's
[1:28:27] more about you know if if if you align
[1:28:30] deeply in a tradition go for it and be
[1:28:33] masterful and be fluent and be as truly
[1:28:37] lit up as you can be within that
[1:28:39] tradition and system and then remember
[1:28:42] that we're really all one family and one
[1:28:45] yoga and take our Mastery and weave it
[1:28:47] together and create the most gorgeous
[1:28:50] tapestry possible out of the Mastery and
[1:28:53] the fluency with what we really know and
[1:28:56] this is how I experienced you know
[1:28:58] anusar I'm not rushing to defend it in
[1:29:01] any sort of way I'm just saying that any
[1:29:02] system runs the risk of insularity and
[1:29:06] it will be the responsibility within you
[1:29:09] know the teachers that represent that
[1:29:11] system to pave the way of collaboration
[1:29:15] and co-creation and and to remember the
[1:29:19] bigger wholeness you know of who we all
[1:29:21] are together
[1:29:28] and I think in terms of what Siana
[1:29:29] saying too is that um there there is uh
[1:29:33] I mean I also taught Anar for many years
[1:29:36] and when when I decided to leave the
[1:29:39] system the very first thing every single
[1:29:42] Studio that I was working with asked me
[1:29:44] what are you going to call it right they
[1:29:46] actually wanted a brand name what are
[1:29:47] you going to call it because brand is
[1:29:49] easy to sell and in in terms of a global
[1:29:52] brand it was just something something
[1:29:54] that so many people had a great
[1:29:56] experience with and they uh became
[1:29:59] attracted to that experience not
[1:30:01] necessarily to most people actually
[1:30:03] didn't know who started anusar where it
[1:30:05] came from when when I traveled in
[1:30:07] different parts of the world they had no
[1:30:09] idea who John was right but they' had a
[1:30:12] a connection with their local teacher
[1:30:14] who was feeding them this uh this love
[1:30:17] of the practice that was that was very
[1:30:19] skillful like SI said and in that sense
[1:30:23] they they started to call at something
[1:30:25] and they said okay that's what I'm
[1:30:26] practicing and I think we we all have a
[1:30:28] hard time putting um kind of we all seek
[1:30:33] to label things we all it's just easy
[1:30:35] that's how we categorize the world
[1:30:36] around us and uh and it was very hard
[1:30:39] for me to tell people I teach yoga you
[1:30:41] know what kind of yoga do you teach uh
[1:30:44] well you know and then you have to give
[1:30:46] them the whole story I did this I
[1:30:47] started a anger I did a I did and you're
[1:30:49] going to say now I'm doing this you know
[1:30:51] so uh and then at the end they go oh
[1:30:53] you're doing your own thing it's like
[1:30:56] yeah okay yes that's what I'm doing um
[1:31:00] but I have no idea how we got into this
[1:31:02] conversation was there was was there a
[1:31:05] root question oh yeah you brought it up
[1:31:10] yeah no and I I agree with SI one of the
[1:31:12] things that it's allowed me to do is
[1:31:14] actually look into myself and when this
[1:31:16] all happened the very first question I
[1:31:18] asked myself is what am I teaching what
[1:31:20] what am I teaching and yes I have these
[1:31:23] tools I have this system system that
[1:31:24] I've grown from and it's acted kind of
[1:31:27] like a a a a planter for my tree to grow
[1:31:30] but what am I teaching and at that
[1:31:33] moment I had to become very very clear
[1:31:35] about what it is I do and why and which
[1:31:37] goes back to what you said earlier is
[1:31:39] why are we doing what we do would we do
[1:31:41] it for free you know and the answer when
[1:31:43] I was breaking away is I had to ask
[1:31:45] myself that question too will I continue
[1:31:47] to do this for free if I go in tomorrow
[1:31:50] saying it's just yoga and there's nobody
[1:31:53] there am I okay with that
[1:31:54] and my answer was yes I'm okay with that
[1:31:57] um I'm very happy there was people
[1:32:01] there so but uh and I'm I'm really I'm
[1:32:04] actually I think like you said it's the
[1:32:07] white water in the ocean is that it it
[1:32:09] was something that we all had to um kind
[1:32:12] of an obstacle that was presented to the
[1:32:14] community the world community at large I
[1:32:16] don't go anywhere now on the planet
[1:32:18] where people have not heard about that
[1:32:20] so it has become an obstacle that has
[1:32:22] allowed us to grow on so many levels I
[1:32:26] mean for myself just reaching out to
[1:32:28] other communities and dropping all that
[1:32:30] and saying okay like what's what's
[1:32:32] blissology about you know I want to get
[1:32:35] some of that you know so but and I think
[1:32:38] it's just an opportunity so thanks
[1:32:40] brother okay on that note guys we are
[1:32:43] going to have to wrap it up but can we
[1:32:44] please just put our hands together that
[1:32:45] was one of that's incredible thank you
[1:32:47] all so much awesome
[1:32:50] [Music]