Transcript
[0:00] Beautiful friends, welcome to Why Isn't
[0:03] Everyone Doing This? I'm your host,
[0:05] Emily Fletcher. I'm the founder of Zea,
[0:07] where we teach meditation and
[0:09] manifesting so that you can create a
[0:11] life you love. And I have the outrageous
[0:14] pleasure of interviewing brilliant
[0:15] people like today's guest, Sabrina
[0:17] Zohar, who is a dynamic entrepreneur.
[0:20] She's a dating coach renowned for her
[0:21] podcast, The Sabrina Zohar Show. She's
[0:24] aiming at helping us to improve our
[0:26] dating lives by fostering self-worth and
[0:28] personal growth. I actually let her
[0:30] coach me because I'm in the middle of a
[0:32] hilarious dating soup. So, please
[0:34] welcome to the show, Sabrina Zohar.
[0:37] Okay, so Sabrina, I am selfishly very
[0:41] excited to have this conversation
[0:43] because I am currently dating and I've
[0:46] been single for a while. I've been
[0:47] single for a little bit over 2 years,
[0:48] but I'm currently dating. Like, I was
[0:50] basically celibate for a little while
[0:52] just recalibrating. I feel like sexual
[0:54] energy is one of the most powerful
[0:55] creative forces for manifestation. And
[0:58] so I'm very intentional about where and
[1:00] when and how I use it. And but I'm
[1:03] recently like opening my field up and
[1:05] there's people coming in. So this could
[1:07] not be more perfectly timed. And I know
[1:09] that a lot of your work is built on this
[1:11] idea, this premise that our patterns and
[1:13] relationships are driven by unconscious
[1:16] triggers and attachment wounds that live
[1:18] in our nervous system. And this is so
[1:19] exciting to me because this is what I've
[1:21] dedicated the past 20 years of my life
[1:22] to is giving people the tools to
[1:24] regulate their nervous systems to
[1:26] actually get rid of on a cellular level
[1:29] the accumulated stress in our bodies.
[1:31] And so it's it's almost like we're doing
[1:33] similar work, but you're going
[1:34] relationally and how that's showing up
[1:36] in life and I'm doing it on the nervous
[1:38] system level. But at the end of the at
[1:40] the end of the day, I want sovereign
[1:42] people who are choosing what they want
[1:43] and also able to receive the love that
[1:45] they desire, including me, and not
[1:48] reacting from old wounds and then
[1:50] starting to respond, like you say, from
[1:52] genuine clarity. Um, so you have one of
[1:54] the most popular podcasts on the planet,
[1:56] helping people with relationships. So I
[1:59] guess talk to us about why do you think
[2:02] the show is called Why isn't everyone
[2:03] doing this, right? So, why isn't
[2:06] everyone finding the love that they
[2:07] desire?
[2:09] I love it. We're going in with a loaded
[2:11] question. I think it's a an amalgamation
[2:14] of things. And I would even say if we're
[2:16] going to look at why aren't we finding
[2:18] it? I would reframe even to say what are
[2:21] the patterns that we're noticing because
[2:23] there's probably a cajillion reasons,
[2:25] right? We have trauma, we have
[2:26] bandwidth, we have capacity, we have
[2:28] proximity, we have timing, we have
[2:30] expectations and needs and so many
[2:32] different things. But I think
[2:34] fundamentally what I've at least been
[2:36] seeing is that I think a lot of people,
[2:39] present company included, for one at one
[2:41] point in my life, we think we know what
[2:43] it is that we want, but we don't
[2:44] genuinely know what we need. And we're
[2:46] going out and seeking a lot of these
[2:49] different behaviors and relationships.
[2:50] And so on paper, we're like, "Oh, I want
[2:52] someone healthy and that's communicative
[2:53] and secure, right? All the beautiful
[2:55] buzzwords." But yet then when you meet
[2:57] that person, I get, "Oh, they're boring.
[2:58] I don't feel the spark. No, I'm just I
[3:00] don't know. There's just something
[3:01] missing." But then you go for the
[3:02] emotionally unavailable salmon that has
[3:05] been stringing you along and playing
[3:06] games and activating you all the time
[3:09] and then we start getting into which I
[3:11] see quite often. It's like this cycle,
[3:13] right? This loop that happens that then
[3:15] that's confirmation bias and then we go,
[3:16] "Oh, there's no good people out anymore
[3:18] and I just can't find anybody." And then
[3:20] your salance network starts to go,
[3:21] "Well, let me find that."
[3:23] >> What's a salance network?
[3:24] >> Oh, our salance network is a part of the
[3:26] brain that is responsible for finding
[3:29] things that look the same. So, for
[3:30] instance, if you were looking, you were
[3:32] going to go buy a Volvo and you know,
[3:34] you go outside, you're like, "Wow, does
[3:35] like everybody have a Volvo?" Because
[3:37] your brain is now looking for that one
[3:39] specific thing. And that's just how it
[3:41] keeps looking for the same patterns
[3:43] because it's like, "Ooh, so if I were to
[3:44] say, look for something green, all of a
[3:46] sudden you start to realize how much
[3:47] green is in your room." So, it brings
[3:49] attention to something very specific.
[3:52] >> Now, the thing with that part of your
[3:53] brain is it's not a conscious part. It's
[3:56] not like, "Oh, it's online and I'm just
[3:57] being really aware." The oftentimes what
[4:00] ends up happening is your prefrontal
[4:01] cortex, which is that decision-making,
[4:03] common sense, the really the executive
[4:05] functioning. When we get triggered, you
[4:07] know, as you know, with the nervous
[4:07] system, when we get disregulated, that
[4:09] part of our brain is offline. It's not
[4:11] as easily accessible. And so, we'll go
[4:13] into our amydala, that's the fear
[4:15] center. We'll go into different parts,
[4:17] right? The default mode network. We go
[4:19] into parts of our brain that are like,
[4:21] "Hey, they're in survival mode." Or,
[4:23] "This is familiar. Let's just do what
[4:25] we've always done." Because the hell you
[4:27] know is often safer for you than the
[4:29] heaven you don't. And so if it's been
[4:31] Exactly. Right. perceptually. And so I
[4:34] think for a lot of people to actually be
[4:37] like I was the poster child of that. I I
[4:39] want a healthy relationship. I want it.
[4:41] I want it. And it's not that I was lying
[4:43] to anybody. It wasn't like I was being
[4:44] disingenuous. I believed in my gut that
[4:47] that's what I wanted. But what I didn't
[4:49] realize was I didn't have the capacity
[4:50] to hold that. I didn't have the true
[4:53] bandwidth to hold space for what that
[4:55] would look like, which is having hard
[4:57] conversations, which is being
[4:59] uncomfortable, which is learning that
[5:01] you might lose somebody by taking up
[5:03] space, but what's the cost if you don't,
[5:05] right? And so all of these things
[5:07] amalgamate, and it's a very long-winded
[5:09] answer of me saying that I think why a
[5:11] lot of us don't have it is we have to
[5:13] start to look at the patterns as to
[5:15] what's standing in the way between what
[5:17] it is that you desire and what it is
[5:18] that you're receiving and then see what
[5:19] you're allowing. M I love that you said
[5:22] that, you know, even though I know what
[5:24] I want, do I have the capacity to hold
[5:26] that? And I think you you intimated to
[5:29] things that we could do to build that
[5:30] capacity. Things like hard
[5:32] conversations, things like being willing
[5:34] to lose someone, but is there anything
[5:36] else that you see really works with
[5:38] people to build their capacity to
[5:40] receive what they think they want or
[5:42] what they say that they want?
[5:43] >> Totally. I think, you know, when it
[5:45] comes to capacity and bandwidth, I
[5:47] understand how confusing it could be. We
[5:48] hear it all the time of like what what
[5:50] does it mean capacity? It's like how
[5:52] much can we hold to be able to stay in
[5:55] in who our authentic self really is and
[5:57] where we are and who we're trying to
[5:58] become, not who we've taught that we are
[6:00] or been taught that we are. And so what
[6:02] I see often is a lot of people bite off
[6:05] more they can chew. Like this is why New
[6:06] Year's resolutions don't work because if
[6:08] your goal if you're going to tell me
[6:09] Zohar I'm going to go and run a
[6:11] marathon. It's like but you haven't even
[6:12] walked around your block without getting
[6:14] losing your breath. Like it's never your
[6:16] nervous system is going to go, "No,
[6:18] thank you." Right? Like the second you
[6:19] do something hard, it's like, "Oh, I
[6:21] can't do this." So, what I've seen
[6:23] really work is we have to start really
[6:24] really small. Like if you want to start
[6:26] to build capacity towards having
[6:28] difficult conversations, but you're a
[6:30] people pleaser who never says no and is
[6:31] scared of what happens. There's
[6:33] something I was talking about today on
[6:34] the I do a lot of solos on my show. I'm
[6:36] just talking to myself for [ __ ] 45
[6:38] minutes. And I was talking about the
[6:41] actually protocol, right? by putting
[6:43] actually in front of something that you
[6:45] want to say. So instead of just going,
[6:46] it's fine. It's fine. I'll I'll my
[6:48] coffee is cold. It's fine. I'll take it.
[6:49] Actually, could you please heat it up?
[6:51] By being able to say something, you
[6:53] pattern interrupt by saying actually,
[6:55] and you're like, no, that doesn't work.
[6:58] And then following it up with something.
[6:59] Now, we want to start really small
[7:01] stakes. That means when you go to the
[7:04] when you go to get your matcha, like I
[7:05] said, if it's too cold, normally you'd
[7:06] be like, "Oh, it's fine. It's fine. I
[7:07] don't need to say anything. I don't want
[7:08] to be a burden." No. Take up the space
[7:10] of like, "Hi, could you please reheat
[7:11] this?" What happens is they go, "Yeah,
[7:13] no worries." And they do it and you're
[7:15] like, "Huh, that's a corrective
[7:17] experience. My nervous system just
[7:18] learned I'm not going to die. I didn't
[7:20] Nothing happened." Maybe it's if I'm
[7:22] praying that everyone listening has one
[7:25] safe friend, one safe person that you
[7:28] could say, "Hey, I'm practicing on
[7:30] taking more space or asking for what it
[7:32] is that I want, being more vulnerable.
[7:34] Can I practice that with you? If I use
[7:36] actually, will you know that I'm really
[7:38] trying to implement something?" I'll
[7:40] tell you this. As much I love my
[7:42] friends, if a girlfriend of mine came to
[7:43] me, I'd be like, "Oh my god, yeah, okay,
[7:45] let's do it." Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want
[7:45] to tell me no? That's fine. Let's do it.
[7:47] Because I want nothing more than for the
[7:50] people that I love to feel safe enough
[7:51] to tell me what it is that they actually
[7:53] need so I don't have to read their mind
[7:54] and so that I don't have to hurt them
[7:56] without realizing what I'm doing. Yeah,
[7:58] this is such an important point. Thank
[7:59] you for bringing this up because I think
[8:01] that as a as a former people pleaser,
[8:04] recovering codependent, I mean, you
[8:06] know, I have really um underestimated
[8:11] how much pleasure I am robbing other
[8:14] people of when I do not ask for what I
[8:17] want and when I do not speak my full
[8:19] truth. And so one of my new slogans, not
[8:21] mantras because I mantra is a Sanskrit
[8:23] word that means mind vehicle that I have
[8:25] very specific views on. But my new theme
[8:27] song, my new slogan is I'm having so
[8:31] much fun getting my needs met. I'm
[8:34] having so much fun getting my needs met.
[8:37] And guess what? So is everyone else.
[8:39] Like actually people want to meet my
[8:41] needs, especially men. And like that's
[8:44] been revolutionary for me that I've
[8:46] spent my whole life with some
[8:49] unconscious pattern or trigger because
[8:51] so I'll just you know we'll start now
[8:52] but spoiler alert. Sabrina has agreed to
[8:55] coach me on the end because I'm in the
[8:57] belly of the beast right now in dating
[8:59] which I'm so excited about. But I've
[9:01] spent my life with amazing women like
[9:04] surrounded by matriarchs, female bread
[9:06] winners. You know a lot of all the men
[9:08] in my family are either dead or
[9:10] alcoholics or sick. So, it's not a great
[9:14] pattern, but I am choosing to shift
[9:17] this. Like, I'm choosing to be a chain
[9:19] breaker. That this is not a reality that
[9:20] I want to tolerate anymore. And this is
[9:22] certainly not what I want to pass down
[9:23] to my son. And so, I've been doing an
[9:25] extraordinary amount of work to like see
[9:27] what I can't see, to feel what I have
[9:29] not felt, to figure out where is this
[9:31] proving coming from? Why do I feel this
[9:34] incessant need to like compete with the
[9:37] men around me or show them how brilliant
[9:39] I am or do it all myself so that they
[9:42] never see my need? And so I've really
[9:44] been noticing how much men especially
[9:45] like need to feel the need, need to feel
[9:48] desired, need to feel like they're
[9:50] useful and because they are. And the
[9:52] reality is I I think it's this this and
[9:54] you probably see this so much, but this
[9:56] almost heartbreaking disconnect between
[9:59] the masculine and feminine of we're
[10:01] like, "Oh my god, like I need you
[10:03] desperately." And then the men are like,
[10:05] "Wait, I need to feel needed, but we
[10:07] don't know how to communicate that to
[10:09] each other." 100 god, I want to get into
[10:11] coaching now. And I'm like, Sabrina,
[10:12] we'll save it. Um, and and to your
[10:15] point, and I I think I'm glad you
[10:16] brought that up because we have muddied
[10:18] the water of what masculine and feminine
[10:20] even means. If I see one more
[10:21] 22-year-old on TikTok being like I'm in
[10:23] my feminine and I just receive and like
[10:27] I want him to be in his masculine, it's
[10:28] like that's not what this means. The
[10:31] point of we all have both. We as women
[10:33] being business owners, independent, I
[10:36] have to be in my masculine at times and
[10:38] my partner has to be in his feminine to
[10:40] receive to feel like someone can protect
[10:42] and take care of. That doesn't mean that
[10:44] because you're a man you have to be
[10:46] masculine and because you're a woman you
[10:47] have to be feminine. We have both within
[10:49] us. And I think it's been interesting to
[10:51] watch because right now we're in a time
[10:54] of like, I don't need a man. And it's
[10:55] like, no, no, that's fine. You don't
[10:57] need fundamentally you need water,
[10:59] sunlight, and basic nutrition, right?
[11:01] Like, and sleep. That's that's
[11:02] fundamentally what you need. And and
[11:03] just community. But it's also okay to
[11:06] say that you do want one. It's also okay
[11:08] to say that you do need somebody. Like I
[11:10] thought about it the other day. For so
[11:12] long, I was misindependent, right? I was
[11:14] single for years. And I've I've I've had
[11:16] three relation like three major
[11:17] relationships since I was 18 or 19.
[11:19] >> And they've been like a year each. So,
[11:21] you know, a year and a half. So, now
[11:23] being in a four-year relationship. Wow.
[11:25] >> And I thought about it. I was laying in
[11:27] bed last night and we're going to London
[11:28] for the book tour and we're doing all of
[11:30] these things. And I just for a minute I
[11:32] really sat down and I was like, okay,
[11:35] yes, for so long I've been on like what
[11:36] do I do and look at all these things I
[11:38] do and look at what I've created and
[11:40] look at the environment I I created for
[11:42] my partner. But I really wanted to stop
[11:44] and say, "And look what he does for me.
[11:46] Look at all of these moments that I
[11:48] forget minute things that like he got a
[11:50] keychain so that our bags don't get
[11:52] lost." And he put it in and he set it up
[11:54] and he did the tech and I stopped and
[11:56] was like, "I do need that. I do need
[11:58] somebody that when we get to London,
[11:59] he's like, don't worry, babe. You're
[12:00] going to only have one bag, which is
[12:01] your backpack. I got the carryons." And
[12:03] it's like, "Thank you." And I was like,
[12:05] "Wow, I I do need that. Thank you for
[12:07] just knowing that like I can't carry all
[12:10] of those on the tube and do all of this
[12:12] and just acknowledging that yes, I do
[12:14] need that. I do need that love. I do
[12:15] need someone who sees me like that and
[12:17] I'm allowed to receive it. Because for
[12:20] growing up, at least for me in my
[12:21] personal experience, have a narcissistic
[12:23] father and a peopleleasing mother,
[12:24] having needs was very dangerous because
[12:26] that meant that you have to give a piece
[12:28] of yourself in order to receive it. I
[12:30] say this all the time. Am I very
[12:31] grateful that my father helped me and
[12:33] supported me? Like when my mom was sick,
[12:35] he helped me pay rent because I lost my
[12:36] job to go be with her and I couldn't
[12:38] financially sustain myself. I am so
[12:41] grateful that I had that, but at what
[12:44] cost? I had to say thank you for the
[12:46] next 45 years. I have to cut myself to
[12:48] show him I'm bleeding. It comes at such
[12:51] a high cost that after a while, you
[12:52] learn, what's the point? I' I'd rather
[12:54] not have a need. I'd rather do it myself
[12:56] because if I struggle, I got my own
[12:57] back. versus when I you're in something
[12:59] healthy, it feels safe to need somebody
[13:02] because you know that that is a safe
[13:04] place for you to be because we are
[13:07] inherently as humans meant to. And I
[13:09] think that's where dating right now has
[13:11] gotten of like I don't need this and I
[13:12] don't need this and I don't need this.
[13:14] You're allowed to. What you don't need
[13:16] is someone that texts you all the time.
[13:17] You don't need that. That's a want. What
[13:19] you need is someone who's honest and
[13:21] transparent, who's communicative, who is
[13:23] a safe space, who is reciprocal and
[13:25] consistent. That's a fundamental need.
[13:27] But do they text you good morning? [ __ ]
[13:29] off. You don't need that. Like that's
[13:31] just a want. And that's a dopamine
[13:32] reward loop. But I think we we as women
[13:34] need to take up space again to say,
[13:36] "Yeah, I do like that my partner makes
[13:38] my coffee in the morning. I need that. I
[13:40] need someone that anticipates my needs
[13:42] in certain moments. I need someone that
[13:44] can hold me when I'm feeling down." It
[13:46] doesn't make you weak.
[13:48] >> Yeah. It doesn't make you weak to need.
[13:50] And And I appreciate this. Like of
[13:52] course survival, it's water, it's food,
[13:54] it's nutrition, it's community. But so
[13:56] of course none of us, we're all
[13:57] sovereign beings. Yes. But I very much
[14:00] believe like to your point that we both
[14:02] we all have masculine and feminine all
[14:03] the way down to the cellular level.
[14:05] Everything expresses masculine and
[14:06] feminine. That is the nature of
[14:07] polarity. That is the nature of duality.
[14:09] That is the nature of the 3D universe.
[14:11] However, and while yes, we all want to
[14:13] be liberated and sovereign. I really
[14:16] think that in order to unlock the
[14:18] frequency of heaven on earth, I believe
[14:19] that heaven is a vibration, not a
[14:20] destination. And that inherent in that
[14:23] vibration is the balance of masculine
[14:25] and feminine. And one of my dharmas in
[14:27] in the work with Zea is like helping
[14:29] people to balance the masculine and
[14:30] feminine inside of themselves so that we
[14:33] have the fluidity to meet the moment at
[14:35] hand, which includes meeting the person
[14:36] in front of us at hand. So, just like
[14:38] you said, like your partner, it's like
[14:40] if he's more in his feminine, you might
[14:41] balance in your masculine or vice versa
[14:43] when you're more in your feminine. But
[14:44] that is an adaptive dance that is
[14:46] happening moment over moment. And I
[14:48] really like to think about what happens
[14:49] on planet Earth if we start to rebalance
[14:52] the masculine and feminine, not only
[14:53] inside of ourselves, but also
[14:55] systemically. And I'm I I think like
[14:57] this is one of the things I'm like, why
[14:58] isn't everyone doing this? Why doesn't
[15:00] everyone realize that this is how we get
[15:02] to live heaven on earth, but that starts
[15:03] from safety? And so I'm really curious
[15:06] to know like what do you see like
[15:09] obviously we have our own individual
[15:11] patternings and you know inherited
[15:12] traumas and things that we have but
[15:14] there's also right now you know we're in
[15:16] the the news cycle right now is the
[15:17] whole Cornell 7 and you know it's no
[15:19] mystery that we're living inside of you
[15:22] know extreme patriarchy that you know
[15:25] the Epstein files we have you know
[15:27] confirmed felons and rapists in very
[15:29] high positions of power we have the head
[15:32] of the government saying like we're
[15:33] going to give pe young boys testosterone
[15:35] and if they rape people well then look
[15:37] out lookout people in the port. Like
[15:39] there's just this like wild increasing
[15:42] um what feels like misogyny and and I
[15:45] and I don't say this as from a victim
[15:47] because I personally don't feel like a
[15:48] victim of that but I do see it eroding
[15:53] the collective safety that women are
[15:56] experiencing. And I would like to know
[15:58] from you like how do you discern or how
[16:00] do you help your people
[16:02] see the difference between what's my
[16:04] inherited patterns and attachment styles
[16:07] and wounding versus like what is the
[16:09] reality of I am swimming in what could
[16:11] be an unsafe soup? Like is it safe
[16:13] actually to have meats? Oh god, it's
[16:16] it's pretty crazy where we are right now
[16:18] and especially as like I it's the
[16:20] saddest admission I'm going to make. I
[16:21] have never met a woman that has not had
[16:23] some kind of essay situation. I have
[16:25] never I have yet to meet a woman that's
[16:27] been like, "Oh, I've never had a man
[16:28] disrespect my boundaries or you know,
[16:30] and then and not in a positive or
[16:32] negative. It's just a harsh reality."
[16:34] And I understand what you mean because I
[16:35] have always worked in very
[16:36] male-dominated industries. And I used to
[16:39] think, "No, come on. We're equal." Like,
[16:40] you know, when you're in high school and
[16:41] you're like, "No, come on." until you're
[16:43] in it. And then you're like, "Oh, sorry.
[16:45] Why is he getting paid three times as
[16:46] much? And why does he keep getting all
[16:48] this marketing? I am the only female.
[16:50] Like, it's me and Mel Robbins in the top
[16:52] 20 in education. It's all the rest are
[16:53] men right now." And you're like, but yet
[16:55] why did the men just keep getting all
[16:57] the opportunities but not the two women
[16:59] that are carrying all of this weight? So
[17:01] like
[17:02] >> that's very much there what I kind of
[17:05] start to look at because like I I it's
[17:07] so wild. I get to say I wrote the book
[17:08] on it.
[17:09] >> So I wrote my book.
[17:10] >> Yeah.
[17:11] >> Just tell us what's the tell us what's
[17:12] the name of the book. Just
[17:15] >> a plug. It's called Why am I like this?
[17:17] And it's about understanding your
[17:18] patterns. Why am I like this?
[17:21] >> Because I at first it was going to be
[17:22] called what the [ __ ] is wrong with me?
[17:23] And I was like, "Hard, little hard." And
[17:26] >> well, I I made a sweatshirt that said,
[17:28] "Fuck off. I'm meditating." So, I am uh
[17:31] I feel like you and I are from the same
[17:32] school.
[17:34] >> You're in New York.
[17:36] >> Yeah, exactly.
[17:37] >> As I say, it's like my New York girl.
[17:38] I'm like, you know, that like [ __ ] is a
[17:40] term of endearment.
[17:41] >> That's right.
[17:41] >> And I had learned that in California.
[17:43] And so anyway, so what I've really
[17:45] started to see is when we're starting to
[17:47] understand between like is this my is
[17:50] this a trauma, a trigger, an old wound
[17:52] versus like you said, am I living in a
[17:54] space of like that's just what this is,
[17:55] right? Like yeah, all these men are
[17:57] getting these opportunities or the the
[17:58] this is this. What I like to look at is
[18:01] what is the intensity of the body
[18:03] sensations? So let's just use an
[18:05] example. I I always kind of use this
[18:07] because it's just the easiest when
[18:08] you're dating to relate to it or even in
[18:10] a relationship. Someone doesn't text
[18:12] you, right? like maybe they didn't text
[18:14] you good morning or it's been 25 30
[18:16] minutes and you didn't get a response
[18:18] back. Now, what we're looking for is
[18:22] maybe somebody more regulated that has
[18:24] not had a a traumatic childhood or had
[18:26] parents and caregivers that were very
[18:27] tuned to their needs like lucky you. I'm
[18:29] so grateful that you had that
[18:30] experience.
[18:32] Maybe that person would look and go,
[18:33] "Huh, they didn't text me. Maybe they're
[18:36] at work or something. I'll talk to them
[18:37] later. No big deal." Right? And you toss
[18:38] your phone and you go on with your day.
[18:40] There's no body sensations. There's no
[18:43] there's no manic energy or shutting
[18:45] down. But on top of it, there's no
[18:47] urgency. There's no narrative and story
[18:50] of like, but where are they and why
[18:51] aren't they here and I need them to know
[18:52] and what's happening and why didn't they
[18:54] text me and do they not like me? We
[18:56] start to put our core beliefs and we
[18:58] interject them into the story and the
[19:00] creation of the narrative. So somebody
[19:02] that's insecure, hi it's me, I was me,
[19:04] not is was me, was, you know, because
[19:08] that's the thing with attachment styles.
[19:09] If I can go on an ADHD tangent for 3
[19:11] seconds is they are not fixed. You can
[19:13] be anxious and avoidant and disorganized
[19:16] and it they are not fixed attachments.
[19:18] You can earn your secure. You can
[19:20] vacasillate between anxious people are
[19:22] also avoidant. Avoidant people are
[19:24] anxious. Like please stop listening to
[19:26] people on the internet that are trying
[19:27] to clickbait you into the fearful
[19:29] avoidant does this. It's like they're
[19:31] not a Tomagotchi. That's a person. So
[19:33] understand complexity of nuance of
[19:34] humans. So anyways go on. I digress. But
[19:36] that that's really I don't I've never
[19:38] heard anyone say that that attachment
[19:40] styles are changeable that they're
[19:42] mutable. Uh so that feels really let's
[19:45] let's double click on that because I
[19:46] think that people when you have
[19:47] something that is a type
[19:49] >> by definition it's meant to be an
[19:51] identity which is great for marketing
[19:53] but it's not true because just like your
[19:55] masculine and feminine would balance
[19:57] with a person so would your anxious or
[19:58] attachment style depending on who you
[20:01] are relating to. That's because when
[20:03] people forget, like somebody messaged me
[20:04] yesterday. I was on TikTok live and he
[20:06] said, "I'm really anxious. Why is my
[20:08] avoidant doing this, this, and this?"
[20:10] And I said, "I hate to break it to you,
[20:11] you're also avoidant." And he was like,
[20:12] "Huh? What do you mean? No, I'm
[20:14] anxious." And I was like, "Let me
[20:15] explain." I said, "Do you notice that
[20:16] your only sole focus is why are they
[20:18] doing it? What are they thinking? What's
[20:20] coming up for them?" I said, "You're
[20:21] abandoning. You're avoiding. How does
[20:23] this make me feel? What's coming up for
[20:25] me? What What am I What are my needs in
[20:27] this moment? Because you're" And he was
[20:29] like, "Oh [ __ ] I see what you mean." I
[20:31] said and avoidant people when they shut
[20:33] down they are feeling immense amounts of
[20:35] anxiety and I'll give you an example. So
[20:38] there is the stillface experiment that
[20:40] was done but Mary Ainsworth did the
[20:42] strange experiment. I don't know if are
[20:43] you familiar?
[20:44] >> No.
[20:45] >> [ __ ] love this [ __ ] So anyways the
[20:47] strange experiment was done in the 70s '
[20:49] 80s. It's it's the type of thing that's
[20:50] been replicated. And so what Mary
[20:51] Answorth did was she had a two-way
[20:53] mirror and she had moms bring their kids
[20:56] 12 to 18 months and put them on one side
[20:58] of the mirror and then she had the mom
[21:00] leave the room and go to the other side.
[21:02] Now what she documented wasn't just when
[21:05] the mom left. She also documented when
[21:07] the mom came back in. And what she saw
[21:09] she really was at the time this was
[21:10] before disorganized that kind of
[21:12] amalgamation of that trauma came in.
[21:14] This was really looking at anxious
[21:15] avoidant insecure. and what she saw and
[21:18] what they did was they had heart rate
[21:19] monitors in all the kids so that they
[21:20] could see what was going on. And so when
[21:22] the moms left for the anxious kid, the
[21:25] kid was inconsolable. Nothing they did
[21:27] was calm the kid down. When the mom came
[21:30] back, the kid still would not relax
[21:32] because it was scared that the mom was
[21:34] going to do it again. So that was the
[21:35] anxious child. The secure child cried,
[21:39] got a little upset, calmed down a bit.
[21:41] When the mom came back, reconnected with
[21:42] the mom and was fine. Right? That's a
[21:44] normal connection with a child that
[21:46] their mom leaves. So then she saw but
[21:48] the avoidant child was the most
[21:49] interesting. The avoidant child watched
[21:51] the mom leave, kept playing and when the
[21:53] mom came in kept playing. And so Mary
[21:56] Ainsworth said, "I call [ __ ] There
[21:57] is no way this must be amassed. Do you
[21:59] know who had the highest heart rate and
[22:01] anxiety of the three?"
[22:03] >> The avoidant child.
[22:04] >> The avoidant child. Because what the
[22:06] avoidant child learned was it's not safe
[22:08] to express and show. So shut down. And
[22:10] we've gotten into a time where there's
[22:12] this villainization of like, well, they
[22:13] just don't care. And if they wanted to,
[22:15] they would. And it's like, well, you
[22:16] know what, baby? If you wanted to, you
[22:17] would as well. If you didn't want to be
[22:18] anxious, you wouldn't. So, cut the
[22:19] [ __ ] Let's stop using these
[22:21] sweeping generalizations. People are not
[22:22] bumper stickers. And that's where I
[22:25] start to get really conscious of am I
[22:28] trying so hard to understand them that
[22:30] at the risk that I lose myself.
[22:31] >> Yeah. And actually, pause for a second
[22:34] cuz like my whole body I just started
[22:35] crying and my I feel
[22:38] >> uh like I can feel the sadness and maybe
[22:40] this is hitting something in me of the
[22:42] avoidant of like I'm good. I don't need
[22:44] it. I'll just do it all myself. But I'm
[22:46] just like feeling those little kids
[22:48] pretending like they're okay when their
[22:49] mom leaves and pretending like they
[22:51] don't care when their mom comes back.
[22:53] And just taking a beat of like if anyone
[22:55] is listening to this and that brings up
[22:56] emotion or if that is news to you that
[22:59] maybe there is like layers and layers of
[23:01] protection on top of a little kid who
[23:03] really wants to feel seen and attached
[23:05] and held and safe. Like like can we give
[23:08] that little kid some love? And I'm
[23:10] curious how you invite people back to
[23:13] putting their attention on themselves
[23:15] because regardless of your style, it
[23:16] seems like the antidote is how do I love
[23:18] and take care of myself and my inner
[23:20] little one.
[23:21] >> 100%. So, there's one way that I love,
[23:23] and I'll get to that, but I will say
[23:24] this.
[23:25] >> It's funny. I did a real saying. I feel
[23:28] I feel sympathy and I feel bad for
[23:30] people with avoidant attachment that
[23:32] don't feel like they can be themselves,
[23:34] that don't feel safe to love, that don't
[23:36] feel like this is I didn't say I excuse
[23:38] bad behavior. I said, I feel empathy
[23:41] towards people that feel like they need
[23:42] to shut down in order to be safe. My
[23:44] sister is avoided. That's how she keeps
[23:45] herself safe. She's an amazing human. My
[23:47] partner is more avoided. Doesn't make
[23:48] these bad people. And what was
[23:50] interesting was there was the the people
[23:53] that have very clearly done the work of
[23:54] like, hey, like I love that you're
[23:56] holding this nuance and two conflicting
[23:57] thoughts. You know, a lot of us are
[23:58] struggling. And then there were the
[24:00] people that are charad of like, well,
[24:02] you know who I feel worse for? The
[24:04] anxious that they hurt. That's who I
[24:05] feel worse for. And it's like, oh, so
[24:08] it's a tit for tat. You see it in the
[24:10] binary of like, well, I'm hurting more.
[24:12] But you don't understand that if you
[24:14] stopped only focusing on yourself in
[24:16] that moment of all you could understand
[24:18] someone else. And if you could someone
[24:19] understand someone else, you might
[24:20] understand yourself because my anxious
[24:21] babes also need to understand your
[24:23] behavior can be way too [ __ ] much.
[24:25] There are times where like I've had to
[24:26] block people cuz you're like it doesn't
[24:28] stop. It's after one after another it's
[24:30] this fighting and volatility and I need
[24:31] you to hear me and you need to validate
[24:33] me that it gets even the most secure
[24:35] person's like whoa whoa whoa man I hands
[24:38] up. All right.
[24:39] >> Pleasurable. It's not it's not.
[24:42] >> Yeah. So the way that I kind of help
[24:44] people to come back when you catch
[24:46] yourself asking why questions, why don't
[24:48] they want me? Why don't they like me?
[24:49] Why aren't they into me? Why da da da da
[24:51] da da da da. Stop yourself and say, I'm
[24:54] going to reframe what don't I like?
[24:56] What? Because so there was a
[24:58] neuroscientist that she discovered that
[24:59] when people say why why, what they're
[25:01] really saying is I don't like. When we
[25:03] ask a ton of why questions, it's because
[25:04] we're uncomfortable. And so if we can
[25:06] stop, so if I'm looking at why didn't
[25:07] they call me and why didn't they text me
[25:09] and all this, usually what I'll do is
[25:10] reframe to I don't like that they
[25:11] didn't. Okay, what don't you like about
[25:13] it?
[25:14] >> I felt really small. Okay, so that's
[25:15] what this is about. You felt dismissed.
[25:17] Then we go into my two favorite
[25:19] questions, which I was going to ask you
[25:20] when we were in mini coaching, but I was
[25:22] like, I'll save it.
[25:24] >> How old do you feel in that moment?
[25:26] >> Yes.
[25:26] >> Right. How old do you feel? Like, do I
[25:28] feel like the adult right now or do I
[25:29] feel like a child?
[25:30] >> Yeah.
[25:31] >> And then if you go into I feel like a
[25:32] kid. Well, who taught you this? Where
[25:35] did you learn this from? Who taught this
[25:36] to you? And it doesn't mean
[25:38] >> what? Because in that moment, like who
[25:39] Yeah. Who taught what? Maybe that if you
[25:42] say, so let's say it's saying, "They
[25:44] didn't text me. I felt dismissed." Okay.
[25:46] So, is that a bad thing? Well, I don't
[25:48] feel like I'm good enough. I don't feel
[25:49] like I'm worthy. I don't feel like I
[25:50] deserve anybody's love. Okay. Who taught
[25:52] you that? Who taught you that you're not
[25:54] worthy and deserving? What behaviors did
[25:56] they show to make you believe that? All
[25:58] right, friends. I want to jump in and
[26:00] really connect the dots of how you can
[26:02] get ahead of these triggers by
[26:03] increasing your threshold of tolerance.
[26:06] Right? Okay, this is one of the things
[26:07] that Sabrina is talking about, which is
[26:08] basically the space of time between a
[26:11] trigger and how you respond to that
[26:13] trigger. And so many of us when we're in
[26:15] chronic fight or flight, when we're in
[26:17] stress response, we don't have an
[26:19] option, right? We just involuntarily go
[26:21] into fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. And
[26:24] this is when our inner child takes over.
[26:25] This is so much of what Sabrina is
[26:27] talking about. But what I have found is
[26:29] that when we meditate, certainly we're
[26:31] not perfect. It doesn't take the
[26:32] triggers away, but it does give you a
[26:34] beat to take a moment and say, "Hey, who
[26:38] do I want to be in this situation? How
[26:41] can I take care of my inner child? Do I
[26:43] just want to have an involuntary
[26:46] reaction? Do I want to just quote
[26:47] unquote lose my [ __ ] on this person? Or
[26:49] can I actually regulate? Can I say,
[26:50] "Hey, you know what? I need a few
[26:52] minutes. Can I go and do a Zeba sitting
[26:54] and come back to this conversation
[26:56] regulated, present, maybe not perfect,
[26:59] maybe still having hurt feelings or
[27:02] feeling like you want to air something,
[27:03] but from a place of regulation where
[27:06] your inner adult gets to be in charge
[27:08] and not your wounded, triggered inner
[27:10] child. So, I highly recommend if you're
[27:13] feeling like this all sounds great
[27:14] conceptually, but you're having a hard
[27:16] time embodying this. If you're feeling
[27:18] addicted to wondering if they've texted
[27:20] back, if you're feeling stuck in
[27:22] relational patterns or ruts and blaming
[27:24] your partner for your state of
[27:26] consciousness, I find that Zea can give
[27:28] you a really beautiful way out. It's
[27:31] going to basically give you the keys to
[27:33] the prisons that many of us have been
[27:35] locked in since childhood, trapped in
[27:37] our own trauma. So that trauma gets
[27:39] stored in our nervous system. And what
[27:40] Ziva does is that it gives your body
[27:42] rest so deep. It lets your body feel so
[27:44] safe that you can start to let go of
[27:46] those triggers one by one so that you
[27:49] get to now choose how you want to
[27:50] respond to a situation. So, as you can
[27:53] hear in this episode, it's I'm not
[27:54] perfect. I'm meditating for a long time.
[27:56] But I do now feel like I have more of a
[28:00] window to choose how I want to respond.
[28:02] And I feel like I have liberated myself
[28:04] again and again and again. And I feel
[28:06] like I'm making better and better
[28:08] mistakes. I'm evolving um in my
[28:11] relational learnings. So, if you're
[28:12] curious about this work and how it can
[28:14] actually improve not only your
[28:15] relationship with others, but your
[28:17] relationship with yourself, you can
[28:19] check out um and get started at
[28:20] zebmeditation.com.
[28:22] The first training that I recommend,
[28:23] level one, is only 15 minutes a day for
[28:25] 15 days and you graduate with an
[28:27] everyday twice a day practice, a
[28:29] technique that rewires your
[28:31] neurochemistry for life. So, check it
[28:33] out.
[28:36] I love you. Enjoy. Okay, so I just Here
[28:39] we go. We're going in. We're going in
[28:40] because this is exactly where I was.
[28:44] >> So, give you some context, right? Um was
[28:47] at Burning Man a few weeks ago. I I'm a
[28:51] big burner. I've been going for a long
[28:52] time and met someone on like the last
[28:55] night and and and I will say that a big
[28:57] part of my journey because I think
[28:59] Bernie man is is a ceremony wrapped as a
[29:01] party. And as the man was burning, what
[29:04] was what I was representing was burning
[29:06] was my unworthiness. like any part of me
[29:08] that believed that I was unworthy of
[29:09] love, unworthy of a relationship, that
[29:11] I've like failed at the relationship
[29:12] game cuz I'm 47, I'm a single mom, and
[29:15] I've like won every other area of my
[29:17] life, but like this one I'm like, how
[29:18] the [ __ ] am I still single? Do you know
[29:20] what I mean? It's like very confusing.
[29:22] And so I'm just and then just all of
[29:24] that like I'm too old, it's too late,
[29:26] I'm parmenopausal, like just and just
[29:29] letting it all burn with the man. And
[29:31] then got to the point where my best
[29:33] friend and I were in the temple looking
[29:34] in each other's eyes just like weeping
[29:36] tears of full-blown gratitude of like
[29:38] I'm so grateful I exist. I'm so grateful
[29:40] you exist. Like my life is amazing. Like
[29:42] not faking it. Like genuine enthusiasm
[29:45] for what is. And of course within
[29:47] minutes I meet someone right and he's
[29:49] just like
[29:51] where have you been? I've been looking
[29:52] for you for 52 years. Like you're an
[29:54] empress. you can meet me in the 5D and
[29:56] the I mean without this is make many we
[29:58] we spend like seven hours like all night
[29:59] long and it's just dropping dropping
[30:01] dropping he feels safe and like oh my
[30:03] gosh I want to take my time with you I
[30:05] we're going to go have like this and the
[30:07] blah blah blah blah blah like everything
[30:09] you could ever want to hear comes into
[30:12] New York a week later takes me out on
[30:13] this amazing date it's so fun I write
[30:15] him a [ __ ] poem I haven't written a
[30:17] poem since I was in seventh grade from
[30:20] my seventh grade boyfriend calls me the
[30:22] next day in tears he's so moved he's
[30:24] just like, "Wow." And then he just
[30:26] disappears. Like, he just dissolved into
[30:29] nothingness. I've never been loved bomb
[30:31] before. I've never I've never had that
[30:33] happen. And it kicked up a level I would
[30:37] consider myself more avoidant
[30:38] historically. I'm like, I'm good. I
[30:40] don't need that. And it kicked up a
[30:41] level of anxiety and like anxious like
[30:44] anxious attachment of and I think I was
[30:47] just confused of like what is like what
[30:50] actually is happening? Was that all fake
[30:52] or is this like which one is real?
[30:54] Right. Is what you were saying a Bernie
[30:55] man real or is this like radio silence?
[30:58] And he did say there's stuff going on in
[31:00] my life. I'll I'll call you later.
[31:02] Didn't call. I'll call you later. Didn't
[31:03] call. I'll call you Friday. Didn't call.
[31:05] And like at this point I'm like I am a
[31:08] queen. You do not but I don't care what
[31:10] your styles are. You do not disrespect a
[31:11] queen. Like do not say you're going to
[31:13] do something and not do it. So I have
[31:15] transitioned. You know I'm like okay
[31:16] this is this man is out of the you know
[31:19] out of the pool. But it's still like
[31:21] someone and I was of course my whole
[31:23] feed on Instagram is now like all
[31:24] relationship experts and this and
[31:26] anxious which is a whole another thing.
[31:29] But I read and you can tell me if this
[31:30] is true or not that rejection is
[31:34] actually much easier to process on the
[31:36] nervous system than ghosting or just
[31:38] ambiguity because it's like wait is this
[31:41] am I about to marry this like king of
[31:43] kings who's like doing all these amazing
[31:44] things in the world or did I just get
[31:46] rejected? I actually don't know which
[31:48] one is real, so I can't move in a
[31:51] direction. So, yeah, there is a really
[31:54] happy ending to this, by the way. But,
[31:56] like, I'll pause there and I'm I'm I'd
[31:58] like to hear the where you where we are.
[31:59] >> Okay. Well, hopefully he's alive. Um,
[32:02] the Okay. The reason that
[32:06] Wait, can you tell me how it ends before
[32:08] I go on any further because I have to
[32:10] decide how hard I'm going to be.
[32:12] >> Yeah. So basically I made a very clear
[32:14] call that like I'm not available for
[32:16] this like regardless of what's happening
[32:18] with you. I am not available for this.
[32:21] Um you don't you don't seem to have the
[32:22] capacity to be in the relationship that
[32:24] I desire. So I was just very clear. I
[32:27] was like you know thank you for the
[32:28] imprint. It truly was magical and and I
[32:31] that's real like I'm genuinely grateful
[32:32] for what we shared. It showed it left an
[32:35] imprint of what is possible my body and
[32:36] I just said it doesn't seem like you
[32:37] have the capacity to be in a
[32:38] relationship that I desire. if that
[32:40] changes, you know, in the future, you
[32:42] know where to find me. And we are
[32:43] transitioning into friends. And the like
[32:46] the day after or two days after I sent
[32:47] that and was very clear of like honoring
[32:49] myself
[32:51] and yes, there was like a eight days of
[32:53] anxious like is he going to did he did
[32:54] he did he? Um is he going to text me?
[32:57] And he didn't. Um, but I met someone
[32:59] this weekend and it's and it's been so
[33:02] fun and it's been uh like everything
[33:06] that that thing it was like an immediate
[33:09] gift of that like we'll call him Mr.
[33:12] Ghost like of everything that he taught
[33:15] me where it's like oh actually I don't
[33:16] want someone who's so busy and so
[33:18] important that they don't have space for
[33:20] relationship. I certainly don't want
[33:22] someone where I don't feel prioritized
[33:25] and and I like so it just really tuned
[33:28] me to what I actually desire. And so far
[33:31] what's showing up now is just a level of
[33:33] like oh oh like every layer that I'm
[33:36] discovering this person it's like every
[33:38] new ring of the tree gets more exciting
[33:41] and more entrancing but I'm not I don't
[33:43] feel anxious but we're also in a
[33:45] reciprocal. Do you know what I mean?
[33:47] It's like there is a balance of give and
[33:49] take in this this new exchange.
[33:51] >> Yeah. It's like it's a dance, right? I
[33:53] would say, okay, so the reason that if
[33:55] you were to just get rejected versus
[33:57] ghosting is because rejection closes the
[33:58] loop and ghosting keeps it open, right?
[34:00] Because you don't know why and you're
[34:01] filling in all the blanks. I'm going to
[34:03] be fully honest with you. The minute you
[34:05] told me that he said, "Where have you
[34:07] been all my life?" I instantly went,
[34:09] "You're never going to see this guy
[34:10] again." And the reason that that
[34:12] happened is because he fell in love with
[34:13] the idea of you, but not actually who
[34:15] you are. because it was all this
[34:16] grandiosity and this big and then of
[34:19] course there's that little girl in there
[34:20] that's like you see me wait you like see
[34:23] me for who I am you think I'm amazing I
[34:25] think I'm like oh my god finally but
[34:29] realistically then we think that's
[34:30] fanciful thinking right doesn't that
[34:32] sound like a child of like you're this
[34:33] queen and this empress and you're like
[34:34] yeah yeah spare me I'm a [ __ ] I know
[34:36] I'm a boss [ __ ] I'm a [ __ ] legend I
[34:39] know all these things but how do you
[34:40] know that how do you know that about me
[34:44] within three seconds because that's
[34:46] what's happening is that's projecting.
[34:47] And my mama has always told me since I
[34:49] was a kid, when they started 100, where
[34:50] else are they going to go? And that's
[34:52] why we want to go slow to allow your
[34:54] nervous system to feel safe with this
[34:57] person, right? Because if you had met
[34:58] him and he went, "Hey, this was a really
[35:00] fun conversation. I'd love to come and
[35:02] see you in New York." You're like,
[35:02] "Cool. Let me know if you're there." And
[35:04] if he calls, he calls and he doesn't,
[35:05] right? And you're just like, "Cool." And
[35:07] then if he doesn't, you're like, "Well,
[35:08] I didn't really know him that well, so
[35:10] it's no love lost." But what happens is
[35:12] he built he wrote a check he wasn't
[35:13] ready to cash and then that hits that
[35:15] deep hisest core wound of like am I too
[35:18] much am I not enough like I'd be curious
[35:19] what was your experience when you
[35:21] started to noticed he was pulling away
[35:23] or uh there's the change what was coming
[35:26] up for you what were your what was the
[35:28] narrative and the story that was
[35:29] happening within you was definitely the
[35:31] in the beginning it was definitely the
[35:32] checking oh it did he write yet? Did he
[35:34] write? like it was definitely that
[35:35] addictive dopamine like just hoping that
[35:39] he would cuz it was so exciting. It was
[35:41] so intoxicating. So that was definitely
[35:43] present. And then he did in his defense
[35:46] say like my this there's three really
[35:48] big things happening in my life like I
[35:50] need space. So I was able to recalibrate
[35:52] but also I was like look if I'm your
[35:53] empress like you would bring me in. Do
[35:56] you know what I mean? Like you would
[35:57] want my counsel on these things even if
[35:59] you can't speak about someone else's
[36:01] privac privacy. So, um, but it kicked
[36:04] up, um, what did it kick up?
[36:08] >> It was also
[36:09] >> too much too soon, right? You're like,
[36:11] too soon. We're also both double Aries,
[36:13] by the way, like sun and moon Aries. It
[36:14] was like a lot of fire and enthusiasm.
[36:16] Um, but but I will say it was it was
[36:20] like just that hoping and wanting. But I
[36:23] do feel proud of all the work that I had
[36:25] done beforehand that unworthiness that
[36:27] like promising to take care of little
[36:29] Emily like really trusting my that I am
[36:32] enough. I didn't spin into old stories
[36:35] of like maybe I was too much. Maybe I
[36:37] did and I was just like you know what he
[36:39] is not available for what I desire and I
[36:42] just closed the loop and I did not spin
[36:44] down and I and I really feel proud of
[36:46] that.
[36:47] >> That's huge and that's hu that is so
[36:49] much progress. Now, if we go, okay, what
[36:51] can I learn from this moving forward? It
[36:53] would be, you know what, I'm because
[36:55] what happens is little Emily is the one
[36:56] that was driving the car. That's how
[36:58] that fanciful thinking comes of like,
[37:00] and he's my king and he's my this and
[37:01] we're because what it represented was I
[37:03] don't have to date anymore. I finally
[37:04] found somebody. I don't have to do this.
[37:06] I'm finally chosen. Gh, I and then it's
[37:09] a new identity. I'm not the [ __ ] up.
[37:11] Maybe there's nothing wrong with me.
[37:12] Look, he's just hadn't found me this
[37:13] whole time.
[37:14] >> I won the game. And he's also like very
[37:16] powerful, you know? He's like one, you
[37:17] know, he's like one capitalism. He's
[37:19] like one he's very powerful. So there's
[37:21] like all of that sort of like patriarchy
[37:24] and like like that was all at play too.
[37:26] >> Of course. And look at the life he can
[37:28] give me and look at the life we can
[37:29] create. I can be by his side.
[37:31] >> We'll build temples together. We'll
[37:32] build, you know, it was Yeah.
[37:34] >> And that right now the promise to make
[37:36] her is, hey, by the way, you don't need
[37:38] to protect me. I need to protect you. I
[37:40] have to be the adult because little
[37:42] Emily came out and she was dating him
[37:44] and she's like, okay, yep, you're right.
[37:45] I'm the queen. here's my pretty pretty
[37:46] princess crown and I have my jewels on.
[37:49] And then you had to be the adult to go,
[37:51] "Oh, sweetie, I'm so sorry he
[37:53] disappointed you." Probably like most of
[37:55] the men in your childhood had. If they
[37:57] were mostly alcoholics and disappointing
[37:59] and it was these women that were so
[38:01] strong and maybe he represented that you
[38:03] didn't have to be that you could finally
[38:05] soften and receive and be like, "H, I
[38:08] don't have to. Oh, wait. Yes, I do."
[38:10] Whereas now, it's not about any of that.
[38:12] What we're looking for is that it's two
[38:14] people going, I think I like you and you
[38:16] like me. Let's see if we have something
[38:17] here. And if we don't, that's okay, too.
[38:19] What makes it healthy is that it can end
[38:21] at any time, and I'm not beholden to
[38:23] this. Because now that you have somebody
[38:25] new, it's like, this is where we want to
[38:26] slow it down and go, you know what? I'm
[38:28] not going to make any determinations
[38:29] about you. I'm not going to meet your
[38:30] friends and family. No, you're not
[38:31] meeting my kid. You're not doing any of
[38:32] this. You know what we're going to do?
[38:34] We're going to have a date and just see
[38:35] how we have in this interaction. I'm
[38:37] going to see that when I say no, how do
[38:38] you respond? When I set a boundary, what
[38:41] is that like for you? Do you take
[38:42] accountability and ownership? Because
[38:44] fundamentally, little Emily wants the
[38:46] big, but what big Emily needs is
[38:48] actually a normal Tuesday that feels
[38:50] really relaxing and calming to her
[38:52] nervous system. That's not up and down.
[38:54] That's not big. That's not whisking me
[38:56] on a plane to [ __ ] Paris after 3 days
[38:58] of knowing you. It's bringing over
[39:00] leftovers or bringing over food to my
[39:02] house and sitting on the couch so we
[39:03] could watch a movie together, right?
[39:04] Like those are the true intimate
[39:06] beautiful moment. Can you have all the
[39:07] other stuff? Of course. I hope you
[39:08] travel and I hope you have a great time.
[39:10] But we want to be able to build towards
[39:12] something. Otherwise, when we start at
[39:14] that intensity, we fall for the idea of
[39:16] them. And then there's a cognitive
[39:18] dissonance because like you had said
[39:20] this, who was this king in this this and
[39:22] then this ghostaster, that's the
[39:24] dissonance. Who you believed he was
[39:26] isn't who he was showing up as. And so
[39:28] of course that any human I don't know
[39:30] any person that would be reigned with
[39:32] all that love that wouldn't feel
[39:33] anxiety. That is so [ __ ] human.
[39:35] >> And what you did with it is beautiful.
[39:37] You stood up for yourself. You said no.
[39:39] And now it's like okay what can like
[39:40] because I love act acceptance and
[39:42] compassion therapy or whatever it is and
[39:44] the whole principle of it is what can I
[39:46] learn from the situation because that's
[39:47] how we can move on. Ruminating and
[39:49] spiraling is what's wrong with me and
[39:51] what did I do wrong and and we notice
[39:52] how there's never an answer. There's
[39:54] never a soling
[39:56] I understand this. I show compassion to
[39:58] myself and what can I do differently
[39:59] moving forward? What can I learn from
[40:01] this? Sometimes it's as simple as I met
[40:04] now I understand what it is that I like
[40:05] and what I don't. Right? That's okay. It
[40:07] doesn't have to be big. You don't not
[40:08] everything happens for a reason in that
[40:10] way. But maybe now we learned, you know,
[40:12] I think I gave my heart a little too
[40:14] quickly because I was so excited about
[40:15] the possibility that now this next
[40:18] person right now it's reciprocal and
[40:19] it's great, but I have 10 te I have 10
[40:22] toes down and little Emily doesn't have
[40:24] to make sure that this person chooses
[40:25] us. I'm going to make sure I choose him.
[40:27] I'm going to make sure that this works
[40:28] for me and I'm going to make sure in the
[40:29] same way you would protect your son from
[40:31] anything bad in the world, you now
[40:33] protect her in the same way. And now you
[40:35] get to decide if this person enters your
[40:37] life, not just are they letting you into
[40:38] theirs because it's it's a it's two
[40:41] sides. And that's why I'm saying it's
[40:43] okay to just enjoy this for what it is
[40:45] >> and be like, "Wow, this is going really
[40:47] great. I like him." And if it if it goes
[40:49] further, awesome. And if not,
[40:51] >> that's okay. We're two adults making a
[40:53] choice. It's
[40:54] >> so beautiful. Thank you for that. So So
[40:56] two questions. One, how do I know? Cuz
[40:59] like when little Emily took the wheel
[41:00] and she was like, "Oh my god, I am an
[41:02] empress and we are going to change the
[41:03] world. we are going to like I don't know
[41:06] like my conscious mind does not know
[41:07] that little Emily has taken over. I
[41:09] don't think when our triggers get up.
[41:10] It's very hard to know that the little
[41:12] one has taken over. So how do you check
[41:15] yourself in those moment? How do I check
[41:16] myself and how does anyone listening to
[41:18] this who's been in something similar?
[41:20] Like how do you check to see wait is my
[41:22] adult in charge or is my child in
[41:23] charge?
[41:25] >> When I say that sometimes I'll say
[41:26] things like I was with my therapist and
[41:28] I said you know I was like I'm I'm still
[41:30] reconciling. I was told growing up that
[41:32] like I was going to have the rich guy
[41:33] and I was going to have I was supposed
[41:34] to find a guy that was going to protect
[41:36] and take care of me and my partner works
[41:38] for me. So the t the tables have been
[41:40] turned and even that's where I stopped
[41:42] and I was like that doesn't sound like a
[41:43] 36-year-old woman who is objective about
[41:46] the man that she has that's an
[41:47] incredible human being and loves her.
[41:48] That sounds like a child, doesn't it?
[41:50] It's even stopping to go and go, is this
[41:53] really the adult me or how old do I feel
[41:55] right now? Because if it's like I'm a
[41:57] queen and I'm all this, you're like let
[41:59] me ask you this. If your son came to you
[42:01] and was like, "Mom, she said I'm a king
[42:02] and I'm all this." Would you look and be
[42:04] like, "Sweetie, you're you're 13, okay?"
[42:06] Like, or you're 14, right? You're a kid,
[42:08] right? You don't I don't think you guys
[42:09] know. I don't think they're the love of
[42:10] your life. I think this is just someone
[42:12] you met. Why don't we just see what
[42:13] happens? What we want to do is also
[42:15] maybe even ask and go, "What facts do I
[42:16] have to back this up? How does this
[42:18] person know I'm a queen and that they're
[42:20] How are they supposed to know that?"
[42:21] It's challenging the narrative. It's not
[42:23] discrediting it. It's not going, "Oh,
[42:25] I'm a piece of [ __ ] There's nothing
[42:26] left for me." But it's also holding two
[42:28] conflicting thoughts to go, "Yeah, I
[42:31] believe I'm I'm amazing and I'm a queen,
[42:33] but I don't really know what this person
[42:35] knows about me in order to make that
[42:36] same determination." And you know, this
[42:38] does feel really exciting, but as much
[42:41] as it feels really exciting, I do think
[42:42] I need to be the adult to slow it down.
[42:44] And it's even just at like cuz I would I
[42:47] would all but guarantee when you were in
[42:48] that moment, did you feel like the
[42:49] 47year-old woman that's like now here
[42:52] going, "Ah, I see what you were doing."
[42:56] No, I couldn't see any of I was just
[42:57] like on the magic carpet ride and I was
[42:59] loving the magic carpet ride.
[43:02] >> And that's where even some like my mom
[43:03] always my mom's a smart woman. She goes
[43:05] when they're go when they're too sweet
[43:06] they'll give you a toothache. That's
[43:08] where we have to stop and go this is cuz
[43:10] I've had that I'll never forget I met
[43:11] this guy. I call him the conventionally
[43:12] handsome guy and I changed the way I
[43:14] dated after him. When we first had our
[43:15] first date it was that same thing where
[43:17] it was like I and I knew it was the type
[43:18] of thing you know when like immediately
[43:20] there's a something goes off in your gut
[43:22] that you're like this is a little too
[43:23] good to be true. He was successful and
[43:26] tall and gorgeous and six-pack and and
[43:29] and not even just the physical, mentally
[43:32] so funny. Like the type of thing that
[43:34] you're like, "Oh my god, stop. My cheeks
[43:35] are hurting. Like, I need a minute.
[43:36] Stop." Like just a connection. The
[43:39] sexual chemistry was through the roofs.
[43:41] Like he touched me and I was like, "All
[43:42] right, done. Okay, fine." It was just
[43:44] magnetic. And but I remember stopping
[43:47] and I remember he dropped me off and
[43:49] like I you know, I was walking to my
[43:50] house and I stopped and I went, "You
[43:52] know what, Seb? I know that you're
[43:53] really excited. Talking to yourself in
[43:54] third person actually reduces rumination
[43:56] versus first. And so I stopped and I
[43:58] said, you know, Sab, I know you were
[44:00] really excited about this, but sweetie
[44:01] pie, in the past, we've gotten really
[44:03] hurt from people that come on really
[44:04] strong. And I know that you feel really
[44:06] good and I know that you're enjoying
[44:08] this, but I also need you to know that
[44:09] I'm here to protect you and that if he
[44:11] does anything, it's not your job to keep
[44:12] him. And sure enough, he did. He showed
[44:16] his true colors over the weeks, and I
[44:17] handled it very differently than I ever
[44:19] would have because I was the adult in
[44:21] the room. And it's okay to stop and
[44:23] leave and go, "Hey, you know what, M? I
[44:25] know that you really want this to work
[44:27] out, and baby, it feels really good, but
[44:29] mama's here, and mama needs to tell you
[44:30] that more often than not, it might not,
[44:33] and that's okay. And I'm not prepping
[44:34] you to get to get sad in case it
[44:37] doesn't, but I am wanting to show that
[44:39] this person needs to earn a place in our
[44:41] life. He doesn't just get one because he
[44:42] says a lot of the right things."
[44:44] >> Yeah. Amen. And that that I find
[44:48] well I'll share my interpretation that
[44:50] I'm curious how you would translate this
[44:51] into the masculine and the feminine but
[44:52] my my amazing friend Mel Wells who works
[44:54] with like women and polarity and female
[44:56] breadwinners and all of that I've been
[44:57] doing a lot of her work through this and
[44:59] she's like you need to be in the egg
[45:00] frequency right and the egg is
[45:02] discerning the egg it's not just like
[45:04] the fastest sperm that gets to the egg
[45:06] the egg is deciding like which quality
[45:08] which DNA which qualities do I want to
[45:12] receive and and and that that level of
[45:15] discernment of like earning, do you even
[45:18] know who I am? Do have you proven this
[45:21] over time repeatedly? Um, and that I am
[45:24] the prize here that I have nothing to
[45:26] sell, nothing to prove, but that we need
[45:28] to create mutual compatibility and just
[45:30] being in that, you know, do I choose
[45:33] him? And and it's not a better or worse,
[45:36] but it does feel like it is the role of
[45:38] the feminine to actually one initiate,
[45:42] right, of like decide which of the
[45:44] suitors she's willing to entertain and
[45:46] then two and this is obviously in
[45:48] heterosexual relationships and from
[45:50] talking you know male female but I but I
[45:52] think it's a bigger conversation in
[45:53] masculine feminine but do you think does
[45:57] that feel true to you one that it is the
[45:58] role of the feminine to be like do I
[46:00] choose you in that oo discernment and
[46:03] then how would you translate relate that
[46:04] to someone who's listening who is who is
[46:06] male.
[46:07] >> I would say cuz it's funny. I remember
[46:09] when my partner and I first got
[46:11] together, he cooks and cleans and I it's
[46:13] just not my thing. Like he loves
[46:14] cooking. That's his thing. And his mom
[46:16] was over and she goes, "You're welcome."
[46:17] And I said, "What are you talking
[46:18] about?" And she goes, "Well, you're
[46:19] lucky. Look what I trained him as." And
[46:22] I looked at her and I said, "I don't
[46:24] think either one of us are lucky. I
[46:25] think we've both cultivated this
[46:26] relationship because I gave a [ __ ] ton
[46:28] to your son, too." And it's about
[46:31] knowing that I don't think anybody is I
[46:33] don't think intrinsically because I have
[46:34] a lot of men that are like, "Okay, cool.
[46:36] I'm also a prize. Like I'm an amazing
[46:38] person. I know how to show up. I'm very
[46:40] loving and just and and and fabulous and
[46:42] amazing." And I think that biologically,
[46:44] absolutely, the egg works with being
[46:46] like, "Yes, we get to choose." But I
[46:48] think, you know, at the same time,
[46:50] because then if we think about the
[46:51] sperm, they're just like, "I'll take
[46:52] it." And it's like, "No, no, I don't
[46:53] think men are that nimble to where
[46:55] they're just like, "I'll take anything
[46:56] that's in front of me." I hope not. I
[46:58] would say that what I'm looking for is
[47:00] both people to realize that each one of
[47:02] them brings something really incredible
[47:03] into this dynamic. And no one no one is
[47:05] more lucky than the other to have each
[47:06] other. We're both lucky that we found
[47:08] each other. We're both here cultivating
[47:10] and building. To me, like I have the
[47:12] partner I have because we built this,
[47:14] not because I was given it. I don't have
[47:16] the most amazing emotionally available.
[47:18] Like Ryan is so emotionally available.
[47:19] It's like palpable. He's so
[47:21] growthminded. But he didn't just like
[47:22] come off of that. And all of a sudden, I
[47:25] demanded that that's the relationship I
[47:27] required. And he then decided he was
[47:30] going to go to therapy because he
[47:31] realized he was falling under it. And he
[47:33] realized that he wants to become like
[47:35] his grandfather. His grandfather is the
[47:37] best man on the planet still with his
[47:38] grandmother. They've been together since
[47:40] they were 13 and they are 85. Like and
[47:43] and he looks at her apple of his eye.
[47:46] Like it's the most beautiful thing.
[47:48] Whereas Ryan's father was not right. He
[47:49] didn't have that male role model to
[47:51] teach him how to do these things. But
[47:54] Ryan could easily have gone, "Well, this
[47:55] is who I am. Take it or leave it." And I
[47:56] would have said, "No, thank you." It's
[47:58] cultivated by two people making a
[48:00] conscious choice every day to choose
[48:02] each other and themselves. And I think
[48:04] it's really important to hold both
[48:05] spaces for that because the person
[48:07] that's for you might actually not be the
[48:09] biggest person in the room. It might not
[48:11] be the person that you've always dreamed
[48:12] them to be. Maybe they are a little
[48:14] quieter because I don't shut the [ __ ]
[48:15] up. So, do I need someone else in the
[48:17] room that doesn't either? probably not.
[48:19] That's what So this new guy, he's like a
[48:21] he's a little reserved. Like his energy
[48:23] is really in. And I was like, wait, I
[48:24] don't need two peacocks in my
[48:26] relationship. Like I'm a [ __ ]
[48:27] peacock, you know? Like I don't need
[48:29] another peacock.
[48:30] >> No. And it's like what we say is like I
[48:32] am the picture and Ryan is the frame.
[48:34] You can't have two pictures. They're
[48:36] competing. You do need someone that
[48:37] keeps the structure and the
[48:40] >> And so that's where I look. And it's
[48:41] like, sure, like I had talked about
[48:42] earlier, I could go into this like, look
[48:44] at what I've done and I'm taking him
[48:45] around the world with me and we get to
[48:46] travel. And it's like, but I also have a
[48:48] rock and I have a support system and I
[48:50] have a man that has my lunch ready for
[48:52] when I walk out because he knows if I
[48:54] don't eat that I'm not going to be at my
[48:55] best. And to me, that's what I needed. I
[48:58] didn't just need someone that throws
[49:00] money at the problem or that's working
[49:01] 24 hours that they can't be there for
[49:03] me. Oh, but they have the private jet.
[49:05] And that's okay to take take hold of.
[49:08] And I think that when we're looking at a
[49:09] private jet,
[49:10] >> I mean, take me on a ride.
[49:12] >> Number one manifestation is an
[49:13] eco-friendly private jet. It's just I
[49:15] want it so bad. I'm on a flight with
[49:18] you. Great.
[49:20] >> I think it's just because I don't want
[49:21] like that's why I hate the main
[49:22] character energy. The reason I say that
[49:24] is because baby, you're the main
[49:26] character of your show. You are you are
[49:27] not even a [ __ ] extra in mine. And
[49:29] when people walk in thinking like, well,
[49:30] I am the main character. It's like,
[49:32] yeah, that's also arrogant as [ __ ] like
[49:34] you are you are yours but it doesn't
[49:36] mean you have earned a place to be a
[49:37] main character in my movie. I want you
[49:39] to take control of your life. I want you
[49:41] to demand the best for yourself. But
[49:44] sometimes that's in quiet moments.
[49:45] Sometimes that's in moments going I
[49:47] don't like this. No thank you. I'm not
[49:48] going to allow it. Or no, I'm not going
[49:50] to do this. Or I don't like the way that
[49:52] person spoke to me, so I'm going to tell
[49:53] them that. And if they don't receive it,
[49:55] I'm going to keep walking. That's you
[49:57] being the main character of your own
[49:58] movie. But it doesn't mean that you are
[50:00] the main character of everybody else's.
[50:01] And I think it's important to remember
[50:03] that I don't want everyone to just sit
[50:04] back and be like, "Ah, I just wait for
[50:06] them to come to me. It's very much both
[50:09] people choosing each other, but I need
[50:10] you to know who the [ __ ] you are so that
[50:12] you can demand it and allow it into your
[50:14] life when you see it."
[50:15] >> Yes. Worthiness, standards, and then
[50:18] reciprocity is so hot. And and I think
[50:21] what I I think the people who really
[50:22] love the main character energy thing and
[50:24] this is my interpretation of people who
[50:26] do feel unworthy or who aren't even
[50:28] filling up their own lives or know what
[50:30] they want or can express what they want.
[50:32] So that them becoming the main character
[50:33] of their own movie is really helpful
[50:35] medicine. But when someone wants to be
[50:36] the main character of everyone else's
[50:38] movie, I think that's narcissism,
[50:39] >> right? That's why I'm like, "No, baby,
[50:41] you're on yours." Or it's this very this
[50:42] entitlement of like, "Well, you know, I
[50:44] spent money on getting my hair and my
[50:46] nails done, so you need to take me to
[50:47] dinner on a first date." And it's like,
[50:49] you know what? Why don't you go for a
[50:50] walk with this person and even see if
[50:52] you want to go out with them again? Why
[50:54] don't you go listen, do whatever you
[50:55] want. You want to demand specific dates.
[50:58] I could give a [ __ ] This is your life,
[50:59] baby, and I want you to live it
[51:00] authentically,
[51:02] >> but your lived experience isn't
[51:03] everybody else's. And it's okay
[51:06] >> to go, you know what? Why don't we go
[51:07] for a walk? Let's grab a coffee. Let's
[51:09] go for a walk. If I like you, we'll go
[51:10] to dinner. If I don't, no harm, no foul.
[51:12] I need to get some steps in. Yeah,
[51:14] that's
[51:14] >> I don't know why everything has to be a
[51:16] production because what we're doing is
[51:18] we're people treating people as
[51:19] transactions. Well, you have to spend a
[51:20] certain amount and it's low effort and
[51:22] you're broke. It's like I don't you who
[51:25] are you to earn that money? Who are you
[51:27] to demand that I give that to you? That
[51:30] to me just feels like that's that main
[51:31] character energy that feels very
[51:33] dangerous where it's like I I don't know
[51:35] why you expect so much in your life from
[51:37] people you have no idea who they are.
[51:40] Oh, so this is this is interesting
[51:41] because I I used to feel very similar to
[51:44] you where I was like, you know what,
[51:45] it's like I was fine with like splitting
[51:47] bills or like maybe you just back and
[51:49] forth or but actually I've really come
[51:52] to change my mind on that
[51:54] >> and
[51:55] >> I don't want to split the bill. Let me
[51:56] just clarify that. I don't want to do I
[51:58] don't want to split it. But I also don't
[52:00] need the first date to be a $300 dinner
[52:02] for you to show me.
[52:03] >> You're not like gauging how much money
[52:04] are they willing to spend on me to prove
[52:05] that they like me or something. But I am
[52:08] very and I think because I am coming
[52:10] from a whole lineage of female
[52:11] breadwinners that I'm actually having to
[52:13] actively work my receptivity muscle. And
[52:16] so I'm I'm really like paying attention
[52:18] to that. And I do think there is some
[52:20] level of reality of like we do have
[52:22] beauty standards put on women that it is
[52:24] expensive to get your hair done and get
[52:26] facials and get pedicures and get waxing
[52:28] and buy makeup and menstrual products.
[52:31] Like those are like thousands and
[52:33] thousands of dollars potentially a month
[52:34] if you choose to engage in that game.
[52:37] that that you know cisgendered
[52:39] heterosexual men are not. And so there
[52:40] is some
[52:42] >> I do that for me though. And that's the
[52:44] thing is I do that so I feel my best,
[52:46] but I don't do it expecting you to give
[52:48] me something because I do it. And that's
[52:50] where it becomes transactional. Like if
[52:52] I'm going to go spend money on getting
[52:53] my hair and makeup done, I show up on
[52:55] this date. If it didn't work out and you
[52:57] split the bill, I'm not going to demand
[52:58] that you did. I chose to get my hair and
[53:00] makeup done. That's a choice I made. And
[53:02] that's where I mean by having autonomy.
[53:04] Now, if you've communicated that and
[53:06] you've told someone, "Hey, I'm already
[53:07] spending a ton on getting my hair and
[53:08] makeup done, so I need you to cover the
[53:10] rest." And then you they surprise you on
[53:11] the date and go, "Oh, are we splitting
[53:13] it?" And you're like, "I told you not."
[53:15] That's very different. But I find that
[53:17] we just have these unrealistic
[53:19] expectations because like here's the
[53:20] thing, these aren't your [ __ ]
[53:21] parents. This isn't mom and dad that
[53:23] have an unlimited credit card that they
[53:24] can just spend on you. And if you're
[53:26] choosing then like here's the thing, you
[53:27] don't have to do your hair and makeup.
[53:29] You can go on the date looking like
[53:30] yourself. And if they like it, great. My
[53:32] partner prefers me without makeup. He
[53:34] thinks I look prettier. I think I look
[53:35] like a troll. When I do it, I do it for
[53:37] me. I do it because I like my eyeliner
[53:40] and I like my hair done, but I know that
[53:42] this person loves me no matter what. And
[53:43] that's what I want you to look for. Do
[53:45] it for you. And if they're going to take
[53:47] you out, [ __ ] yeah. Like I don't split
[53:49] the bill. I don't do that nonsense. Like
[53:50] either you're covering it or I'm
[53:51] covering it. But like don't do that
[53:53] [ __ ] But somebody has to be figuring it
[53:56] out. And I that was a conversation I had
[53:57] with my partner because he came from a
[53:59] lineage of I take care of me, you take
[54:01] care of you. And I was like, "Oh, no,
[54:03] baby. I didn't. I came from the lineage
[54:05] of man, my father took care of
[54:06] everything financially. That's what I
[54:08] was." And I'm not saying one is right or
[54:10] wrong. There are women out there that
[54:12] would go, "No, no, I don't want you to
[54:12] pay for me." That's fine. I I I want you
[54:15] to do what feels right for you. But I
[54:16] did have a conversation with my partner
[54:18] where I said, "It does make me feel good
[54:19] when you take me out to dinner. It does
[54:21] make me feel good when I don't have to
[54:22] ask I don't have to take out my car to
[54:24] buy one thing or you we're not doing
[54:26] this like if you want to get married and
[54:27] we're building a life baby you got to be
[54:29] able to take care of me in other ways
[54:31] too but also sometimes that looks like
[54:33] non-monetary ways and it's okay for your
[54:35] partner to show up for that where if
[54:37] you're like you know what I want to go
[54:38] on this trip and your partner's like I
[54:40] don't have the money you're like fine
[54:40] I'll pay for it but maybe that means
[54:42] that they are cooking all the meals and
[54:44] they're doing things and they're
[54:45] planning the that's fine right make it
[54:47] work for both of you that's what matters
[54:49] >> yeah that feels really smart that you're
[54:51] designing like who's owning what bodega
[54:53] who's owning okay I'm getting the
[54:55] flights you're getting the travel you
[54:56] know that it's that you're designing it
[54:58] and that would just like the anxious and
[54:59] avoidant might change over time okay so
[55:02] you mentioned that your your partner is
[55:03] super emotionally available super
[55:05] embodied right that um so I'm curious
[55:08] from your experience like what is the
[55:10] difference between someone who's
[55:13] intellectually understands their
[55:14] patterns and triggers and someone who's
[55:16] actually broken them and is embodying a
[55:19] wholeness and worthiness What does it
[55:20] take to make that leap from knowing to
[55:22] embodying?
[55:24] >> Oh, if all it was was just
[55:25] intellectualization, then all of us
[55:27] would be in a different place, right?
[55:28] That's why I hate if he wanted to, he
[55:29] would. Because it's like I can want a
[55:31] lot of things, but that doesn't mean I
[55:32] have the capacity to actually achieve
[55:34] it. I want to be a millionaire and here
[55:35] I am because I have a lot of money
[55:36] trauma. That doesn't mean I don't want
[55:38] it bad enough, but I do have
[55:40] limitations. And I think people use if
[55:42] he wanted to, he would. And way too big
[55:44] of like, well, if he wanted to be
[55:45] emotionally available, he would. And
[55:46] you're like, do you understand what it
[55:48] takes to do that? This isn't just like
[55:50] if he wanted to call you, he would. It's
[55:51] like I'm not talking about small
[55:53] [ __ ] like that.
[55:54] >> Yeah.
[55:54] >> But Ryan, when we first met, he was very
[55:57] intellectualized, but he didn't realize
[55:58] that he would shut down, that he would
[56:00] go inward, that he would I would be
[56:02] sitting there and I felt like I was
[56:03] alone on an island. Now, what that
[56:05] actually looks like is he'll stop and
[56:06] say, you know, my initial reaction was I
[56:09] wanted to say no because that's the
[56:11] rigidity in me, but I actually want to
[56:13] say yes right now and I'm going to sit
[56:14] through something that's really
[56:15] uncomfortable, so let's go do this. And
[56:16] then I know I'm like, "Oh shit." Okay.
[56:19] Because it's not just words, it's
[56:20] actually progress in their actions.
[56:21] That's how you start to see that
[56:22] someone's implementing it. Maybe they
[56:24] stop and go, like for me with my anxiety
[56:26] and like the anxious attachment version,
[56:28] I have to stop and go, you know what? I
[56:30] was about to scream and say something I
[56:31] regret, but I'm going to go for a walk
[56:33] instead. Can we reconvene in 10 minutes?
[56:34] I got to come back to baseline. Instead
[56:36] of me just being like, well, that's my
[56:37] trauma and that's my trigger. And you
[56:40] just you can intellectually know, but
[56:42] what happens when you get triggered?
[56:43] What happens when you get disregulated?
[56:45] Then who do you show up as? How what's
[56:47] your window of tolerance? And that's
[56:48] where we start to see the difference. Is
[56:50] somebody that keeps giving you words
[56:51] without change behavior is manipulation?
[56:53] Are they actually doing it or are they
[56:54] just [ __ ] talking about it? Are you
[56:56] talking about your trauma all day or are
[56:58] you working through it? Because your
[56:59] triggers are not my responsibility. I
[57:01] want to understand them and I want to
[57:03] know if I'm doing something
[57:04] intentionally to hurt you. But I can't
[57:06] always be responsible for neutral
[57:08] actions or inactions that I do in a day
[57:10] that might bring you back to a place
[57:11] that I have no idea you're there. And I
[57:13] am not your therapist. this. I don't
[57:14] need to sit here and unpack your trauma
[57:16] with you for 5 hours. You do need to
[57:19] talk to somebody outside of your
[57:20] relationship to hold that space for you
[57:22] because then after a while I start to
[57:24] feel like a caregiver and a mom and a
[57:26] therapist and less like a partner.
[57:29] >> So, how do you when you find that
[57:31] couples are getting into that like I'm
[57:33] I'm going into daddy mode or I'm going
[57:34] into mommy mode versus partner, how do
[57:38] you help people out of that? And I'm
[57:39] asking because I very much identify with
[57:41] Isis who is the Egyptian goddess of
[57:43] motherhood and fertility and sex and
[57:45] magic. And I think she's a really
[57:46] important in the iconography because
[57:48] she's one of the few female deities who
[57:50] is both mother and lover. And I think
[57:52] when we separated the Madonna and the
[57:53] [ __ ] we did a real disservice to
[57:55] ourselves and our relationships. And so
[57:57] I I think she's important and I like
[57:58] that she sometimes like works through
[58:00] and with me. However, I also see the
[58:03] inherent danger in like stepping into
[58:04] mother role romantically. And so, but of
[58:07] course, nurturing and caretaking and
[58:09] loving someone's pain is part of the
[58:12] game. So, how do you one identify if
[58:14] you're too far in a parental role? And
[58:16] then how do you help people out of that
[58:17] and back into lover and romantic role?
[58:20] >> In order to identify it, you need to be
[58:22] connected with yourself. Because like
[58:24] when I would have moments where Ryan and
[58:25] I would get into a fight and it would
[58:27] turn where I'd sit there and I was like,
[58:28] I no longer feel like your partner. I
[58:29] feel like I'm now holding you. I'm like,
[58:31] "What about my needs? What about the
[58:32] fact that I was the one that was upset?
[58:34] What about the one that like I was upset
[58:35] with what you said to me and now all of
[58:37] a sudden I'm holding space for you shut
[58:39] down because as a kid you felt like I
[58:41] was yelling at you like your dad." And
[58:42] it's like, "Hey, you need to talk to
[58:44] somebody." And it was me having
[58:45] boundaries about how much of myself I
[58:47] was willing to give to my partner. And I
[58:49] think it's really important to know
[58:51] that, you know, I would look at him and
[58:52] say, "I love you, but I cannot also play
[58:54] this. I cannot also pick up this job."
[58:56] And so, if you're going to work on this,
[58:58] you need to find somebody. I will help
[58:59] you find them if you need to ask me like
[59:01] qualifications and things like that.
[59:03] Happy to do that. But it was me having
[59:05] boundaries going, I cannot continue this
[59:06] conversation because I have now
[59:08] abandoned what I was upset about and my
[59:10] needs to now take care of you. And I no
[59:12] longer feel like your partner. I feel
[59:13] like your mother and that's not a
[59:14] dynamic I want to be in anymore. But I
[59:16] had to be enough in tune with myself to
[59:18] go, I don't like this. I don't like this
[59:20] dynamic. This doesn't feel good. Why do
[59:22] am I harping on you again? Why am I
[59:23] asking you the same thing 300 times? Did
[59:26] you just give me a snippy attitude like
[59:27] you're a [ __ ] teenager? That doesn't
[59:29] work for me. And now that we've now that
[59:32] he has his therapist and I have mine and
[59:34] we're both really working these
[59:35] programs, I say together, we've had so
[59:38] much less of that because he has a safe
[59:40] space to go to. He has someone he can
[59:42] unpack this with. That doesn't mean that
[59:44] when I get triggered and I got I say, "I
[59:46] feel like I'm a kid again." He's like,
[59:47] "I know, honey. I know. I see it. And
[59:49] I'm here to let you know that you're an
[59:50] adult and I'm here for you and don't
[59:51] forget to talk to your therapist about
[59:53] that." That's sometimes, right? and it's
[59:55] like because he's not wrong or I'm like
[59:56] you're right. I don't need to sit here
[59:57] and unpack this for 4 hours with you
[59:59] when that's just it's it's heavy for the
[1:00:01] other person to receive when you're like
[1:00:02] you know this isn't sexy anymore when
[1:00:04] it's the 15th conversation about this
[1:00:06] like after a while you're like are you
[1:00:08] going to seek help about this or are you
[1:00:09] going to use me as your regulating tool
[1:00:11] because this feels like a lot. Yeah,
[1:00:13] that's really good. Like how much am I
[1:00:15] taking care of myself? What are my
[1:00:17] boundaries? What am I willing to hold
[1:00:19] here? And I think you know as a person
[1:00:21] like you know I'm a meditation teacher,
[1:00:23] I'm a healer. I'm a somatic. I'm a
[1:00:24] priestess, so it's like I get off on
[1:00:26] those things. Like I'm really good at
[1:00:27] them. My ego gets delighted when I'm
[1:00:30] like helping someone, but it's like
[1:00:32] really coming back to do does my human
[1:00:36] actually want to be in this? Is it sexy?
[1:00:38] Is it in service of the aros? Is it in
[1:00:40] service of the polarity? And also, what
[1:00:41] are my boundaries? Like how how much am
[1:00:43] I willing to help this person heal
[1:00:45] versus like
[1:00:47] >> and trust me, as somebody who like I
[1:00:48] help people in relationships and their
[1:00:50] inner child, of course, I'm like, "No,
[1:00:51] tell me more." But there does get to a
[1:00:53] point where therapy talk can sometimes
[1:00:55] be used to avoid accountability. And
[1:00:57] sometimes you got to get rid of all the
[1:00:58] verbiage of the like, so what are you
[1:01:00] feeling right now in your solar plexus?
[1:01:01] It's like, stop [ __ ] pathizing me and
[1:01:03] talk to me like a human. Hey, don't love
[1:01:05] it. What's going on? What's coming up
[1:01:07] for you? I'm here. I want to talk to
[1:01:08] you. I'd like to understand how you're
[1:01:10] feeling, but I need you to use your
[1:01:11] adult words with me. Right? Like
[1:01:13] sometimes you got to just stop trying so
[1:01:16] hard to be the the to be all of their
[1:01:18] things and understand what your needs
[1:01:20] are as well as theirs. and can you
[1:01:21] satisfy theirs and can they satisfy
[1:01:23] yours?
[1:01:26] >> Um, okay. So, why I'm so curious like
[1:01:29] why do you think your podcast is rocking
[1:01:31] so hard? Like what I mean top 0.05% of
[1:01:36] all podcasts globally and and I know I
[1:01:38] mean obviously you're brilliant.
[1:01:39] Obviously you really care, but what do
[1:01:41] you think you're on to? Like what do you
[1:01:42] think people are magnetized in the show?
[1:01:45] >> I tell you what you need to hear, not
[1:01:46] what you want to hear. Like I'm not
[1:01:47] going to sugarcoat it. I'm not going to
[1:01:48] cuddle you. I'm not going to [ __ ]
[1:01:50] you. I'm not going to sit here and say
[1:01:52] you didn't do anything wrong. It's like
[1:01:53] no, I'm going to hold you accountable
[1:01:55] and I'm going to also not I don't focus
[1:01:57] on like somebody asked me, they said,
[1:01:59] "Why do you focus so much on the self
[1:02:00] and why aren't you telling me how to
[1:02:01] diagnose the other person?" I was like,
[1:02:03] "Cuz I'm not a [ __ ] doctor and that's
[1:02:04] not my job. My job isn't to get you more
[1:02:07] disconnected from yourself. It's to
[1:02:08] bring you home to yourself." That means
[1:02:10] that family and friendships, it's not
[1:02:13] just all about dating. It's about how
[1:02:15] sugar impacts your blood sugar. It's
[1:02:17] about how your anxiety might be mold and
[1:02:19] might have nothing to do with this other
[1:02:21] person. It's about your core beliefs.
[1:02:23] It's about how you see yourself. And
[1:02:25] that's why I wrote this book because I
[1:02:27] really wanted to bring the podcast I
[1:02:29] wanted the Sabrina Zohar Show to have a
[1:02:31] to metastasize in a different way and to
[1:02:33] have something different of you can if I
[1:02:36] listen if I can be the hot mess that
[1:02:38] slept her way through Manhattan and heal
[1:02:40] through it and find an amazing partner
[1:02:41] and create a new career for myself, then
[1:02:43] you could do this too. There is no
[1:02:45] timeline. There is no endgame. There is
[1:02:47] no you have to do this by this. It's the
[1:02:49] timeline you give yourself and how much
[1:02:51] progress you're willing to give yourself
[1:02:52] before you start to attack yourself. How
[1:02:54] much compassion are you showing
[1:02:55] yourself? And how much space are you
[1:02:57] allowing yourself to be a [ __ ] human?
[1:02:59] >> Mhm. So beautiful. And I think that
[1:03:02] people really don't I mean this is very
[1:03:04] much related to manifesting, right?
[1:03:06] Where it's like people don't understand
[1:03:07] that manifestation is is 100% a game of
[1:03:11] self-actualization, self-healing. You
[1:03:13] are shifting your own consciousness
[1:03:14] which immediately shifts your reality
[1:03:16] and relationships is one of the fastest,
[1:03:18] easiest and most painful and potent
[1:03:21] mirrors for your your you know the way
[1:03:24] that you view yourself, what you're
[1:03:26] willing to tolerate, what you believe
[1:03:27] you deserve. Um so I'm curious, you
[1:03:30] know, I've taught people in the past
[1:03:32] like one one person in a relationship
[1:03:33] would learn to meditate and the other
[1:03:35] one wouldn't. And then they're doing
[1:03:36] this practice every day twice a day.
[1:03:38] They're, you know, removing stress from
[1:03:39] their nervous system. They're making
[1:03:40] space for more consciousness.
[1:03:41] Oftentimes, Zea becomes the gateway drug
[1:03:44] to other spiritual practices, medicine
[1:03:45] work, pilgrimages, and then the other
[1:03:48] partner is like, "Wait, I feel like
[1:03:50] you're leaving me. I feel like I'm
[1:03:51] getting left behind." And then the
[1:03:53] partner who's doing the spiritual work
[1:03:54] is like, "Wait, I feel like you can't
[1:03:56] catch up." Or like we're just like the
[1:03:58] it can expediate a different track in
[1:04:01] life. And I have found that if if one or
[1:04:04] the other doesn't choose to come back
[1:04:06] together, the disperate like the the
[1:04:08] desperate nature can get too deep and it
[1:04:11] or sorry too wide and then it can break
[1:04:13] the relationship. So I'm curious if you
[1:04:15] haven't and this is specifically for the
[1:04:17] Zeva audience because I know a lot of
[1:04:18] people have handled this where they're
[1:04:20] like they want their partner to come on
[1:04:22] the spiritual ride with them or they're
[1:04:24] feeling afraid that their partner is
[1:04:25] leaving them behind. What would you
[1:04:28] counsel a couple in that in that
[1:04:30] situation?
[1:04:32] >> I think at this point you have to you
[1:04:33] have to keep dating your partner to see
[1:04:35] if who you're becoming works with who
[1:04:36] they're becoming because who you met who
[1:04:38] you were when you met is I hope not who
[1:04:40] you're going to be as you keep evolving
[1:04:42] this relationship. I am significantly
[1:04:44] more woo. I am the one that like I love
[1:04:47] my energy healers and my readers and my
[1:04:49] this and I love doing my ketamine
[1:04:50] treatments. Like I love all of that.
[1:04:52] Ryan's not so much into that. He was
[1:04:54] just diagnosed as autism. So like he's
[1:04:55] very by the book and this is what it is
[1:04:57] and this is how it like he's a lot more
[1:04:58] rigid. Now what that looks like is me
[1:05:01] going to him and saying I feel like I'm
[1:05:03] outgrowing this and I feel like I'm now
[1:05:05] on this journey and either you figure
[1:05:07] out a way to go and continue onto yours.
[1:05:08] So you continue to grow or this is the
[1:05:11] impass because I can't keep dragging you
[1:05:12] back on the path and bringing you
[1:05:14] forward if you're not going to get up
[1:05:15] and start walking with me. And it's okay
[1:05:17] to have that hard conversation. That
[1:05:18] doesn't mean they have to do the same
[1:05:19] things.
[1:05:20] >> But what if he's like I don't like your
[1:05:21] path. I like my path. Why don't you get
[1:05:23] on my path?
[1:05:24] >> Then that I would start to look and say,
[1:05:25] "Are we compatible any longer?" Because
[1:05:27] are our paths even aligning? I don't
[1:05:29] need my partner like Ryan doesn't
[1:05:31] believe in astrology. I don't need him
[1:05:32] to. I don't need him to believe in
[1:05:33] astrology for me to believe in it. For
[1:05:35] me, when I say Taurus, you see him roll
[1:05:37] his eyes and like you're such a Gemini.
[1:05:39] And like it's fine, right? You're
[1:05:40] allowed to have that. But he also like
[1:05:43] he meditates every night. I actually
[1:05:45] don't meditate as often, right? It
[1:05:46] doesn't mean that everybody has
[1:05:49] >> it doesn't mean that everyone has to do
[1:05:51] the same things. But what it is is this
[1:05:53] relationship a container for you to
[1:05:55] become more yourself.
[1:05:57] >> And maybe by you doing all the ZVA
[1:05:59] practices and all this, you now feel
[1:06:01] like you can connect with your partner
[1:06:02] on a deeper level because you don't have
[1:06:04] the shame and you don't have the the
[1:06:06] blame and you don't have the guilt and
[1:06:07] you don't have the core beliefs. Maybe
[1:06:10] that person doesn't need the same things
[1:06:11] as you, but are they still growing? What
[1:06:14] I'm looking for is growthminded and
[1:06:16] somebody that wants to constantly
[1:06:17] elevate on their path. And so like Ryan,
[1:06:20] Ryan will take mushrooms and go on a
[1:06:21] hike. He'll go on a 10-mi hike for four
[1:06:24] hours. That's his way of of doing his
[1:06:26] work. Whereas mine might be going to a
[1:06:28] raiki center and having all the
[1:06:29] meditation, doing all the things. But
[1:06:31] you know what matters is that we both
[1:06:32] come back together more open and more
[1:06:34] receptive towards each other and who
[1:06:36] we're both becoming. And it's okay if
[1:06:37] who you're becoming isn't who the other
[1:06:39] person likes. That's part of either
[1:06:41] you're growing together or you're
[1:06:42] growing apart. But we don't need it to
[1:06:44] match. You don't need your partner to do
[1:06:46] the meditations with you and to do all
[1:06:47] of these things if they don't resonate
[1:06:48] with it. But do you still have things in
[1:06:50] common? Are you still able to connect in
[1:06:52] different ways? That's what I want to
[1:06:54] see.
[1:06:54] >> Mhm. That's beautiful. Is this
[1:06:56] relationship still a container where I
[1:06:58] can be myself regardless of what
[1:07:00] practices they're doing? That's really
[1:07:01] beautiful. U Okay. Is there anything
[1:07:04] that's coming up in the zeitgeist or in
[1:07:05] your work or maybe even the book where
[1:07:07] you're like, "This feels cutting edge.
[1:07:08] This feels like the thin edge of the
[1:07:10] wedge. the world might not be quite
[1:07:12] ready for it, but why isn't everyone
[1:07:14] doing this? Or why isn't everyone aware
[1:07:16] of this?
[1:07:17] >> I just think right now we're in a time
[1:07:19] where the thought of discomfort is what
[1:07:21] anybody will do to avoid. And that's the
[1:07:22] problem because discomfort is your one
[1:07:24] path to growth. And so I get it all the
[1:07:26] time of like, well, that sounds hard.
[1:07:28] It's like, choose your [ __ ] hard. Not
[1:07:29] if you're trying to live an easy life. I
[1:07:31] don't want to live that life. That's not
[1:07:33] one for me because easy just means that
[1:07:35] I'm I'm staying the same and I don't
[1:07:37] want to always be comfortable. I don't
[1:07:38] want to constantly perpetually be
[1:07:40] struggling, but I think that between AI
[1:07:43] being immediate, we expect humans to be
[1:07:44] the same way. We've programmed our brain
[1:07:46] that everything is at the tip of our
[1:07:47] finger. So why are you taking 5 minutes
[1:07:49] to even think about this? Amazon has
[1:07:51] created this. Well, no, I want it now. I
[1:07:53] want reviews. I want it out my door and
[1:07:54] if I don't like it, take it and be gone
[1:07:55] and I don't have to worry about it. But
[1:07:57] that's not how humans work. And I wish
[1:07:59] more people were open and receptive to
[1:08:01] being uncomfortable and allowing
[1:08:03] themselves to grow through it versus
[1:08:05] trying everything to avoid. Rejection's
[1:08:07] gonna happen. It's gonna suck. Deal with
[1:08:09] it. You get rejected a thousand times a
[1:08:11] day. A thousand times. But people only
[1:08:13] see the one as like, "Oh, well, but the
[1:08:15] guy I liked or the girl I liked rejected
[1:08:16] me." But you don't look to say you got
[1:08:18] four job applications that were denied
[1:08:20] by AI before a human even saw you.
[1:08:22] That's a rejection. Your friend said no
[1:08:24] to you. The person at the store said no.
[1:08:26] Rejection is happening all the time. Get
[1:08:28] very comfortable being uncomfortable and
[1:08:30] then you will see your life change.
[1:08:32] >> Get comfortable being uncomfortable.
[1:08:34] Choose your hard. So true, right?
[1:08:37] Because we're either creating or we're
[1:08:38] destroying. Like we're either expanding
[1:08:40] or we are contracting. There is no in
[1:08:43] between. So tell us about the book.
[1:08:46] Where can people get it? Why am I like
[1:08:48] this? Like what what are you most
[1:08:49] excited about? What do we need to know
[1:08:51] about the book?
[1:08:52] >> The book is going to give you everything
[1:08:54] you need to break your [ __ ]
[1:08:56] blueprint to get the life that you want.
[1:08:58] But the book alone is not what does it.
[1:08:59] It's what you do with it. And that's the
[1:09:01] biggest thing. Like I'm not going to lie
[1:09:02] and be like, "Oh yeah, when you read it
[1:09:03] to cover to cover, that's it. You're a
[1:09:04] different person." It's what you do with
[1:09:06] it. Every tool is in there. Everything
[1:09:08] you need is in there. You get to learn
[1:09:10] more about My Hot Mess Express. How Yes,
[1:09:12] you're right. I'm not a therapist. Never
[1:09:13] claimed to be. I curse a ton. If you
[1:09:15] don't like it, that's probably not your
[1:09:16] book. I am not trying to be for
[1:09:18] everybody. But I am trying to welcome
[1:09:20] the people that I am for. And so, I want
[1:09:22] people to walk away realizing you're not
[1:09:24] broken. There's nothing to fix. But you
[1:09:25] just got to heal through some [ __ ] And
[1:09:26] this is your opportunity to. And you can
[1:09:28] get it worldwide. Anywhere books are
[1:09:30] found. Why am I like this? You can go
[1:09:32] online, Target, Barnes & Noble. It
[1:09:34] doesn't really matter, Amazon or you go
[1:09:36] to your local indie bookstore if you
[1:09:37] want to support a local. I just matter.
[1:09:39] What matters to me is that you're
[1:09:40] willing to read it. And I am so grateful
[1:09:42] and honored that people are going to sit
[1:09:43] with me and take the time to get to know
[1:09:45] me a little bit better, too.
[1:09:47] >> Bravo. I know how intense it is to birth
[1:09:49] a book. And so really celebrating the
[1:09:51] dedication, the love, the years of
[1:09:54] mastery and expert um expertise that
[1:09:57] you've poured into this. So my friend
[1:09:59] Dave Aspbury, he's like, you know,
[1:10:00] authors will spend 10,000 hours pouring
[1:10:02] themselves into a book that you can read
[1:10:04] in two hours. And so it's like receive
[1:10:06] the gift of that, right? Receive the
[1:10:08] gift of your thousands and thousands of
[1:10:09] hours of practical experience that you
[1:10:12] can ingest um in a few hours. And we'll
[1:10:14] put a link to the book in the show
[1:10:16] notes. So Sabrina, what a delight to
[1:10:18] know you. Thank you for helping me.
[1:10:19] Thank you for your quick wick, your
[1:10:21] intellect, your honesty, for your
[1:10:23] cursing. I love it. And sweet friends,
[1:10:25] if you have enjoyed this episode, here
[1:10:27] is my desire. I desire that you
[1:10:29] screenshot this, that you post it, tag
[1:10:31] us on social media, tell us what you
[1:10:33] learned, what were your ahas, what tools
[1:10:36] are you going to implement to come home
[1:10:38] to yourself to decide what are your
[1:10:39] standards, to decide if your
[1:10:41] relationship is a container where you
[1:10:42] can be yourself. I personally have
[1:10:44] learned so much from this episode. So,
[1:10:45] if you feel like someone could use this
[1:10:47] medicine, share it with them. And I love
[1:10:49] you and we will see you next week on Why
[1:10:51] Isn't Everyone Doing This?
[1:11:03] Yeah.