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Inspiration

Why You Keep Choosing Familiar Love Over Healthy Love

Ziva Meditation
Ziva Meditation
Oct 13, 2026
10 min read

From Ziva Meditation

Watch · 6

On a recent episode of the Ziva Meditation channel, host Emily Fletcher opens by admitting that her love life is "a hilarious dating soup." She has been single for a little over two years, has recently started dating again, and has invited dating coach Sabrina Zohar to help her sort through it on camera. What follows is a 71-minute working session on a question that sounds simple and rarely is: why isn't everyone finding the love they desire? Zohar, who is also an entrepreneur, the host of The Sabrina Zohar Show, and the author of Why Am I Like This?, which came out the same day the episode was published, argues that the problem is rarely a shortage of wanting. The problem is capacity, and a nervous system that keeps steering us back toward what feels familiar, even when the familiar thing hurts. The conversation offers a working toolkit: separate what you need from what you merely want, practice small requests before big ones, read attachment styles with compassion, and ask two diagnostic questions whenever a trigger hits.

Read · 7 sections

Why do we say we want healthy love and then pick the other thing?

Zohar's opening diagnosis is the one that gives the rest of the episode its spine. "We think we know what it is that we want, but we don't genuinely know what we need," she said in the Ziva Meditation episode (around 2:34). She describes the pattern with a candor that makes it hard to dismiss. On paper, the list is familiar: someone healthy, communicative, secure, "all the beautiful buzzwords." Then the person shows up, and the verdict arrives fast. They're boring. There's no spark. Something is missing. Meanwhile the emotionally unavailable person who plays games and keeps you activated feels like chemistry.

From there, Zohar says, a loop forms. The disappointing relationships become evidence that good people don't exist, and that conclusion becomes a filter. She names the mechanism directly, invoking the reticular activating system, which she calls the salience network: the part of the brain that finds what looks like what you're already looking for. Her illustration is the car purchase. Buy a Volvo and suddenly the road is full of Volvos. Look for something green and you notice how much green is in the room. The brain, in her telling, is simply continuing to scan for the pattern it has been trained to expect.

The crucial detail is that this process isn't conscious. When you get triggered and your nervous system becomes dysregulated, Zohar explains, the prefrontal cortex, which handles decision-making and common sense, goes less accessible, and the amygdala and survival-oriented circuits take over. In that state, the familiar wins. "Because the hell you know is often safer for you than the heaven you don't," she says. Her framing is that you aren't choosing dysfunction out of stupidity. You are choosing the known threat over the unknown one.

Zohar is candid that she was once her own case study. She wanted a healthy relationship, and she believed it. "It wasn't like I was being disingenuous," she said. What she lacked was the bandwidth to hold what that relationship would ask of her: hard conversations, discomfort, and the risk that taking up space might cost her the person. The wanting was sincere. The capacity wasn't there yet.

What does "capacity to receive love" actually mean?

Capacity is the word that organizes the second half of the conversation, and Zohar is careful to define it. It is how much you can hold while staying in touch with who you actually are and who you are trying to become, rather than who you were taught to be. Fletcher's question, whether there are practices that build it, gets a concrete answer: start much smaller than feels impressive.

Zohar's comparison is to New Year's resolutions. If you announce that you will run a marathon but you can't walk around the block without losing your breath, your nervous system will say no the moment something hard shows up. The same logic applies to relationships. If you are a people-pleaser who never says no and fears the fallout, a sweeping goal like "have the big conversation" will likely collapse under the first flicker of anxiety. Zohar's advice is to build capacity in increments, the way strength is built, rather than trying to become a new person in one move.

One of her small tools is a single-word interrupt for people-pleasers. Her example is a coffee that has gone cold at a restaurant. The habitual reply is "It's fine. It's fine. I'll take it." Her suggestion is to insert the word "actually" before the request, so the sentence becomes an honest small ask rather than a silent concession. The move is deliberately modest. Its purpose is to rehearse the physical and verbal experience of stating a need and surviving it, so that larger requests stop feeling like emergencies.

"What's the cost if you don't, right?" — Sabrina Zohar, Ziva Meditation episode (around 5:00), on the price of taking up space in a relationship.

That question is the hinge of the capacity argument. Taking up space can cost you a person. Not taking up space also costs you something, usually a relationship that quietly shrinks around your silence. Zohar treats losing someone as a possible outcome of growing, not proof that you failed.

Is "avoidant" the same as "doesn't care"?

One of the most useful reframes in the episode is the claim that "avoidant" does not mean "doesn't care." Zohar approaches attachment styles, including anxious, avoidant, and disorganized patterns, with compassion rather than as a verdict on someone's character. An avoidant partner may be protecting themselves in ways that look like distance from the outside. An anxious partner may be reaching for reassurance in ways that feel like pressure to the other person. Neither label tells you whether the other person is capable of love, and neither is fixed.

The episode is also explicit that attachment styles can change over time. Zohar talks about how a person who looks avoidant early in a relationship may not stay that way, and she frames change as something that happens through experience and self-awareness rather than something you either have or don't. That distinction matters for a reader deciding whether to walk away. The question shifts from "what kind of person is this?" to "what does this person's behavior tell me about whether they can meet my needs right now?"

How old do I feel, and who taught me this?

The description of the episode highlights two questions Zohar uses for any trigger, and they are the most portable takeaway in the hour. The first is "How old do I feel?" The second is "Who taught me this?"

The first question is a way of locating which version of you is reacting. A sudden surge of panic after a text goes unanswered may have very little to do with the present moment and a great deal to do with a much younger self who learned that silence meant danger. Asking your age is a way of catching the regression in real time. Later in the conversation, Zohar describes an inner-child moment in which a part of her "still would not relax" (around 21:30). The point is not to pathologize that younger part but to notice that it is in charge.

The second question traces the belief back to its source. Who taught you that love has to be earned, that you're too much, that you should be grateful for crumbs? Once you can name the teacher, the belief becomes a learned pattern rather than a fact about reality. Zohar's broader point is that the trigger isn't always a wound. Sometimes it is a red flag, and the work is to tell them apart. Old wounds respond to inner work and reassurance from within. Red flags describe something real about another person's behavior that deserves to be taken seriously. The two questions help you sort which is which before you act.

Fletcher connects this to her own practice of meditation, describing it as expanding the space between a trigger and a response. That space is where a choice becomes possible. Without it, the nervous system's default answers the question for you.

Why does the question "why" keep you stuck?

The episode's chapter list includes a line that is easy to skim past: "Replacing 'why' with 'what don't I like?'" It is worth slowing down on. "Why did they do that?" tends to pull you into a story about motive, which is unknowable and often leads to self-blame. "Why am I like this?" the title of Zohar's book, can become a spiral with no exit. The question "What don't I like?" is narrower and more useful. It asks for an observable preference rather than an explanation of someone's psyche. It is also a discernment tool: you can answer it about a specific behavior, a specific dynamic, or a specific pattern, and the answer tells you what to adjust.

What happens when the silence starts?

Much of the coaching in the episode centers on what happens during the gaps in dating, when a text doesn't come or a plan falls apart. Fletcher's own example is that silence activates old wounds for her. Zohar's response is a memorable phrase: "big Emily" needs a normal Tuesday. In other words, the grown, capable version of Fletcher needs an ordinary day with ordinary routines, not a mental negotiation over whether someone still likes her. The episode also lists "Why rejection closes the loop while ghosting keeps it open" as a core idea. The framing suggests that a clear no, however painful, gives your mind an ending to process. Ghosting leaves the story running, which keeps the nervous system scanning and the loop active. It's a useful lens for the periods when you are waiting on someone who is not giving you an answer.

Where to go from here

The episode is a conversation rather than a program, and Zohar is clear that she is a coach, not a therapist. If old wounds feel large or persistent, a licensed clinician is the right resource. For everyone else, a few practical steps follow directly from the discussion:

  • Before the next date or difficult conversation, write two lines: what you need, and what you merely want. Notice where they differ.
  • When a trigger hits, ask "How old do I feel?" and "Who taught me this?" before you respond.
  • Practice one small request this week, using the word "actually" if you tend to people-please, and notice what happens.
  • Swap "why did they do that?" for "what don't I like?" and let the answer guide a boundary.
  • When silence starts, give yourself a normal Tuesday. Keep your routines, your friends, and your practice running while the question stays open.

Zohar's book, Why Am I Like This?, expands on these ideas, and the full episode, including Fletcher's real-time dating coaching, is worth watching for anyone who has ever wondered why the person they said they wanted never seemed to be the one they kept choosing. The answer, as this conversation makes clear, is less about finding a different type of person and more about building the capacity to hold the love you say you want when it finally arrives.

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Transcript

[0:00] Beautiful friends, welcome to Why Isn't

[0:03] Everyone Doing This? I'm your host,

[0:05] Emily Fletcher. I'm the founder of Zea,

[0:07] where we teach meditation and

[0:09] manifesting so that you can create a

[0:11] life you love. And I have the outrageous

[0:14] pleasure of interviewing brilliant

[0:15] people like today's guest, Sabrina

[0:17] Zohar, who is a dynamic entrepreneur.

[0:20] She's a dating coach renowned for her

[0:21] podcast, The Sabrina Zohar Show. She's

[0:24] aiming at helping us to improve our

[0:26] dating lives by fostering self-worth and

[0:28] personal growth. I actually let her

[0:30] coach me because I'm in the middle of a

[0:32] hilarious dating soup. So, please

[0:34] welcome to the show, Sabrina Zohar.

[0:37] Okay, so Sabrina, I am selfishly very

[0:41] excited to have this conversation

[0:43] because I am currently dating and I've

[0:46] been single for a while. I've been

[0:47] single for a little bit over 2 years,

[0:48] but I'm currently dating. Like, I was

[0:50] basically celibate for a little while

[0:52] just recalibrating. I feel like sexual

[0:54] energy is one of the most powerful

[0:55] creative forces for manifestation. And

[0:58] so I'm very intentional about where and

[1:00] when and how I use it. And but I'm

[1:03] recently like opening my field up and

[1:05] there's people coming in. So this could

[1:07] not be more perfectly timed. And I know

[1:09] that a lot of your work is built on this

[1:11] idea, this premise that our patterns and

[1:13] relationships are driven by unconscious

[1:16] triggers and attachment wounds that live

[1:18] in our nervous system. And this is so

[1:19] exciting to me because this is what I've

[1:21] dedicated the past 20 years of my life

[1:22] to is giving people the tools to

[1:24] regulate their nervous systems to

[1:26] actually get rid of on a cellular level

[1:29] the accumulated stress in our bodies.

[1:31] And so it's it's almost like we're doing

[1:33] similar work, but you're going

[1:34] relationally and how that's showing up

[1:36] in life and I'm doing it on the nervous

[1:38] system level. But at the end of the at

[1:40] the end of the day, I want sovereign

[1:42] people who are choosing what they want

[1:43] and also able to receive the love that

[1:45] they desire, including me, and not

[1:48] reacting from old wounds and then

[1:50] starting to respond, like you say, from

[1:52] genuine clarity. Um, so you have one of

[1:54] the most popular podcasts on the planet,

[1:56] helping people with relationships. So I

[1:59] guess talk to us about why do you think

[2:02] the show is called Why isn't everyone

[2:03] doing this, right? So, why isn't

[2:06] everyone finding the love that they

[2:07] desire?

[2:09] I love it. We're going in with a loaded

[2:11] question. I think it's a an amalgamation

[2:14] of things. And I would even say if we're

[2:16] going to look at why aren't we finding

[2:18] it? I would reframe even to say what are

[2:21] the patterns that we're noticing because

[2:23] there's probably a cajillion reasons,

[2:25] right? We have trauma, we have

[2:26] bandwidth, we have capacity, we have

[2:28] proximity, we have timing, we have

[2:30] expectations and needs and so many

[2:32] different things. But I think

[2:34] fundamentally what I've at least been

[2:36] seeing is that I think a lot of people,

[2:39] present company included, for one at one

[2:41] point in my life, we think we know what

[2:43] it is that we want, but we don't

[2:44] genuinely know what we need. And we're

[2:46] going out and seeking a lot of these

[2:49] different behaviors and relationships.

[2:50] And so on paper, we're like, "Oh, I want

[2:52] someone healthy and that's communicative

[2:53] and secure, right? All the beautiful

[2:55] buzzwords." But yet then when you meet

[2:57] that person, I get, "Oh, they're boring.

[2:58] I don't feel the spark. No, I'm just I

[3:00] don't know. There's just something

[3:01] missing." But then you go for the

[3:02] emotionally unavailable salmon that has

[3:05] been stringing you along and playing

[3:06] games and activating you all the time

[3:09] and then we start getting into which I

[3:11] see quite often. It's like this cycle,

[3:13] right? This loop that happens that then

[3:15] that's confirmation bias and then we go,

[3:16] "Oh, there's no good people out anymore

[3:18] and I just can't find anybody." And then

[3:20] your salance network starts to go,

[3:21] "Well, let me find that."

[3:23] >> What's a salance network?

[3:24] >> Oh, our salance network is a part of the

[3:26] brain that is responsible for finding

[3:29] things that look the same. So, for

[3:30] instance, if you were looking, you were

[3:32] going to go buy a Volvo and you know,

[3:34] you go outside, you're like, "Wow, does

[3:35] like everybody have a Volvo?" Because

[3:37] your brain is now looking for that one

[3:39] specific thing. And that's just how it

[3:41] keeps looking for the same patterns

[3:43] because it's like, "Ooh, so if I were to

[3:44] say, look for something green, all of a

[3:46] sudden you start to realize how much

[3:47] green is in your room." So, it brings

[3:49] attention to something very specific.

[3:52] >> Now, the thing with that part of your

[3:53] brain is it's not a conscious part. It's

[3:56] not like, "Oh, it's online and I'm just

[3:57] being really aware." The oftentimes what

[4:00] ends up happening is your prefrontal

[4:01] cortex, which is that decision-making,

[4:03] common sense, the really the executive

[4:05] functioning. When we get triggered, you

[4:07] know, as you know, with the nervous

[4:07] system, when we get disregulated, that

[4:09] part of our brain is offline. It's not

[4:11] as easily accessible. And so, we'll go

[4:13] into our amydala, that's the fear

[4:15] center. We'll go into different parts,

[4:17] right? The default mode network. We go

[4:19] into parts of our brain that are like,

[4:21] "Hey, they're in survival mode." Or,

[4:23] "This is familiar. Let's just do what

[4:25] we've always done." Because the hell you

[4:27] know is often safer for you than the

[4:29] heaven you don't. And so if it's been

[4:31] Exactly. Right. perceptually. And so I

[4:34] think for a lot of people to actually be

[4:37] like I was the poster child of that. I I

[4:39] want a healthy relationship. I want it.

[4:41] I want it. And it's not that I was lying

[4:43] to anybody. It wasn't like I was being

[4:44] disingenuous. I believed in my gut that

[4:47] that's what I wanted. But what I didn't

[4:49] realize was I didn't have the capacity

[4:50] to hold that. I didn't have the true

[4:53] bandwidth to hold space for what that

[4:55] would look like, which is having hard

[4:57] conversations, which is being

[4:59] uncomfortable, which is learning that

[5:01] you might lose somebody by taking up

[5:03] space, but what's the cost if you don't,

[5:05] right? And so all of these things

[5:07] amalgamate, and it's a very long-winded

[5:09] answer of me saying that I think why a

[5:11] lot of us don't have it is we have to

[5:13] start to look at the patterns as to

[5:15] what's standing in the way between what

[5:17] it is that you desire and what it is

[5:18] that you're receiving and then see what

[5:19] you're allowing. M I love that you said

[5:22] that, you know, even though I know what

[5:24] I want, do I have the capacity to hold

[5:26] that? And I think you you intimated to

[5:29] things that we could do to build that

[5:30] capacity. Things like hard

[5:32] conversations, things like being willing

[5:34] to lose someone, but is there anything

[5:36] else that you see really works with

[5:38] people to build their capacity to

[5:40] receive what they think they want or

[5:42] what they say that they want?

[5:43] >> Totally. I think, you know, when it

[5:45] comes to capacity and bandwidth, I

[5:47] understand how confusing it could be. We

[5:48] hear it all the time of like what what

[5:50] does it mean capacity? It's like how

[5:52] much can we hold to be able to stay in

[5:55] in who our authentic self really is and

[5:57] where we are and who we're trying to

[5:58] become, not who we've taught that we are

[6:00] or been taught that we are. And so what

[6:02] I see often is a lot of people bite off

[6:05] more they can chew. Like this is why New

[6:06] Year's resolutions don't work because if

[6:08] your goal if you're going to tell me

[6:09] Zohar I'm going to go and run a

[6:11] marathon. It's like but you haven't even

[6:12] walked around your block without getting

[6:14] losing your breath. Like it's never your

[6:16] nervous system is going to go, "No,

[6:18] thank you." Right? Like the second you

[6:19] do something hard, it's like, "Oh, I

[6:21] can't do this." So, what I've seen

[6:23] really work is we have to start really

[6:24] really small. Like if you want to start

[6:26] to build capacity towards having

[6:28] difficult conversations, but you're a

[6:30] people pleaser who never says no and is

[6:31] scared of what happens. There's

[6:33] something I was talking about today on

[6:34] the I do a lot of solos on my show. I'm

[6:36] just talking to myself for [ __ ] 45

[6:38] minutes. And I was talking about the

[6:41] actually protocol, right? by putting

[6:43] actually in front of something that you

[6:45] want to say. So instead of just going,

[6:46] it's fine. It's fine. I'll I'll my

[6:48] coffee is cold. It's fine. I'll take it.

[6:49] Actually, could you please heat it up?

[6:51] By being able to say something, you

[6:53] pattern interrupt by saying actually,

[6:55] and you're like, no, that doesn't work.

[6:58] And then following it up with something.

[6:59] Now, we want to start really small

[7:01] stakes. That means when you go to the

[7:04] when you go to get your matcha, like I

[7:05] said, if it's too cold, normally you'd

[7:06] be like, "Oh, it's fine. It's fine. I

[7:07] don't need to say anything. I don't want

[7:08] to be a burden." No. Take up the space

[7:10] of like, "Hi, could you please reheat

[7:11] this?" What happens is they go, "Yeah,

[7:13] no worries." And they do it and you're

[7:15] like, "Huh, that's a corrective

[7:17] experience. My nervous system just

[7:18] learned I'm not going to die. I didn't

[7:20] Nothing happened." Maybe it's if I'm

[7:22] praying that everyone listening has one

[7:25] safe friend, one safe person that you

[7:28] could say, "Hey, I'm practicing on

[7:30] taking more space or asking for what it

[7:32] is that I want, being more vulnerable.

[7:34] Can I practice that with you? If I use

[7:36] actually, will you know that I'm really

[7:38] trying to implement something?" I'll

[7:40] tell you this. As much I love my

[7:42] friends, if a girlfriend of mine came to

[7:43] me, I'd be like, "Oh my god, yeah, okay,

[7:45] let's do it." Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want

[7:45] to tell me no? That's fine. Let's do it.

[7:47] Because I want nothing more than for the

[7:50] people that I love to feel safe enough

[7:51] to tell me what it is that they actually

[7:53] need so I don't have to read their mind

[7:54] and so that I don't have to hurt them

[7:56] without realizing what I'm doing. Yeah,

[7:58] this is such an important point. Thank

[7:59] you for bringing this up because I think

[8:01] that as a as a former people pleaser,

[8:04] recovering codependent, I mean, you

[8:06] know, I have really um underestimated

[8:11] how much pleasure I am robbing other

[8:14] people of when I do not ask for what I

[8:17] want and when I do not speak my full

[8:19] truth. And so one of my new slogans, not

[8:21] mantras because I mantra is a Sanskrit

[8:23] word that means mind vehicle that I have

[8:25] very specific views on. But my new theme

[8:27] song, my new slogan is I'm having so

[8:31] much fun getting my needs met. I'm

[8:34] having so much fun getting my needs met.

[8:37] And guess what? So is everyone else.

[8:39] Like actually people want to meet my

[8:41] needs, especially men. And like that's

[8:44] been revolutionary for me that I've

[8:46] spent my whole life with some

[8:49] unconscious pattern or trigger because

[8:51] so I'll just you know we'll start now

[8:52] but spoiler alert. Sabrina has agreed to

[8:55] coach me on the end because I'm in the

[8:57] belly of the beast right now in dating

[8:59] which I'm so excited about. But I've

[9:01] spent my life with amazing women like

[9:04] surrounded by matriarchs, female bread

[9:06] winners. You know a lot of all the men

[9:08] in my family are either dead or

[9:10] alcoholics or sick. So, it's not a great

[9:14] pattern, but I am choosing to shift

[9:17] this. Like, I'm choosing to be a chain

[9:19] breaker. That this is not a reality that

[9:20] I want to tolerate anymore. And this is

[9:22] certainly not what I want to pass down

[9:23] to my son. And so, I've been doing an

[9:25] extraordinary amount of work to like see

[9:27] what I can't see, to feel what I have

[9:29] not felt, to figure out where is this

[9:31] proving coming from? Why do I feel this

[9:34] incessant need to like compete with the

[9:37] men around me or show them how brilliant

[9:39] I am or do it all myself so that they

[9:42] never see my need? And so I've really

[9:44] been noticing how much men especially

[9:45] like need to feel the need, need to feel

[9:48] desired, need to feel like they're

[9:50] useful and because they are. And the

[9:52] reality is I I think it's this this and

[9:54] you probably see this so much, but this

[9:56] almost heartbreaking disconnect between

[9:59] the masculine and feminine of we're

[10:01] like, "Oh my god, like I need you

[10:03] desperately." And then the men are like,

[10:05] "Wait, I need to feel needed, but we

[10:07] don't know how to communicate that to

[10:09] each other." 100 god, I want to get into

[10:11] coaching now. And I'm like, Sabrina,

[10:12] we'll save it. Um, and and to your

[10:15] point, and I I think I'm glad you

[10:16] brought that up because we have muddied

[10:18] the water of what masculine and feminine

[10:20] even means. If I see one more

[10:21] 22-year-old on TikTok being like I'm in

[10:23] my feminine and I just receive and like

[10:27] I want him to be in his masculine, it's

[10:28] like that's not what this means. The

[10:31] point of we all have both. We as women

[10:33] being business owners, independent, I

[10:36] have to be in my masculine at times and

[10:38] my partner has to be in his feminine to

[10:40] receive to feel like someone can protect

[10:42] and take care of. That doesn't mean that

[10:44] because you're a man you have to be

[10:46] masculine and because you're a woman you

[10:47] have to be feminine. We have both within

[10:49] us. And I think it's been interesting to

[10:51] watch because right now we're in a time

[10:54] of like, I don't need a man. And it's

[10:55] like, no, no, that's fine. You don't

[10:57] need fundamentally you need water,

[10:59] sunlight, and basic nutrition, right?

[11:01] Like, and sleep. That's that's

[11:02] fundamentally what you need. And and

[11:03] just community. But it's also okay to

[11:06] say that you do want one. It's also okay

[11:08] to say that you do need somebody. Like I

[11:10] thought about it the other day. For so

[11:12] long, I was misindependent, right? I was

[11:14] single for years. And I've I've I've had

[11:16] three relation like three major

[11:17] relationships since I was 18 or 19.

[11:19] >> And they've been like a year each. So,

[11:21] you know, a year and a half. So, now

[11:23] being in a four-year relationship. Wow.

[11:25] >> And I thought about it. I was laying in

[11:27] bed last night and we're going to London

[11:28] for the book tour and we're doing all of

[11:30] these things. And I just for a minute I

[11:32] really sat down and I was like, okay,

[11:35] yes, for so long I've been on like what

[11:36] do I do and look at all these things I

[11:38] do and look at what I've created and

[11:40] look at the environment I I created for

[11:42] my partner. But I really wanted to stop

[11:44] and say, "And look what he does for me.

[11:46] Look at all of these moments that I

[11:48] forget minute things that like he got a

[11:50] keychain so that our bags don't get

[11:52] lost." And he put it in and he set it up

[11:54] and he did the tech and I stopped and

[11:56] was like, "I do need that. I do need

[11:58] somebody that when we get to London,

[11:59] he's like, don't worry, babe. You're

[12:00] going to only have one bag, which is

[12:01] your backpack. I got the carryons." And

[12:03] it's like, "Thank you." And I was like,

[12:05] "Wow, I I do need that. Thank you for

[12:07] just knowing that like I can't carry all

[12:10] of those on the tube and do all of this

[12:12] and just acknowledging that yes, I do

[12:14] need that. I do need that love. I do

[12:15] need someone who sees me like that and

[12:17] I'm allowed to receive it. Because for

[12:20] growing up, at least for me in my

[12:21] personal experience, have a narcissistic

[12:23] father and a peopleleasing mother,

[12:24] having needs was very dangerous because

[12:26] that meant that you have to give a piece

[12:28] of yourself in order to receive it. I

[12:30] say this all the time. Am I very

[12:31] grateful that my father helped me and

[12:33] supported me? Like when my mom was sick,

[12:35] he helped me pay rent because I lost my

[12:36] job to go be with her and I couldn't

[12:38] financially sustain myself. I am so

[12:41] grateful that I had that, but at what

[12:44] cost? I had to say thank you for the

[12:46] next 45 years. I have to cut myself to

[12:48] show him I'm bleeding. It comes at such

[12:51] a high cost that after a while, you

[12:52] learn, what's the point? I' I'd rather

[12:54] not have a need. I'd rather do it myself

[12:56] because if I struggle, I got my own

[12:57] back. versus when I you're in something

[12:59] healthy, it feels safe to need somebody

[13:02] because you know that that is a safe

[13:04] place for you to be because we are

[13:07] inherently as humans meant to. And I

[13:09] think that's where dating right now has

[13:11] gotten of like I don't need this and I

[13:12] don't need this and I don't need this.

[13:14] You're allowed to. What you don't need

[13:16] is someone that texts you all the time.

[13:17] You don't need that. That's a want. What

[13:19] you need is someone who's honest and

[13:21] transparent, who's communicative, who is

[13:23] a safe space, who is reciprocal and

[13:25] consistent. That's a fundamental need.

[13:27] But do they text you good morning? [ __ ]

[13:29] off. You don't need that. Like that's

[13:31] just a want. And that's a dopamine

[13:32] reward loop. But I think we we as women

[13:34] need to take up space again to say,

[13:36] "Yeah, I do like that my partner makes

[13:38] my coffee in the morning. I need that. I

[13:40] need someone that anticipates my needs

[13:42] in certain moments. I need someone that

[13:44] can hold me when I'm feeling down." It

[13:46] doesn't make you weak.

[13:48] >> Yeah. It doesn't make you weak to need.

[13:50] And And I appreciate this. Like of

[13:52] course survival, it's water, it's food,

[13:54] it's nutrition, it's community. But so

[13:56] of course none of us, we're all

[13:57] sovereign beings. Yes. But I very much

[14:00] believe like to your point that we both

[14:02] we all have masculine and feminine all

[14:03] the way down to the cellular level.

[14:05] Everything expresses masculine and

[14:06] feminine. That is the nature of

[14:07] polarity. That is the nature of duality.

[14:09] That is the nature of the 3D universe.

[14:11] However, and while yes, we all want to

[14:13] be liberated and sovereign. I really

[14:16] think that in order to unlock the

[14:18] frequency of heaven on earth, I believe

[14:19] that heaven is a vibration, not a

[14:20] destination. And that inherent in that

[14:23] vibration is the balance of masculine

[14:25] and feminine. And one of my dharmas in

[14:27] in the work with Zea is like helping

[14:29] people to balance the masculine and

[14:30] feminine inside of themselves so that we

[14:33] have the fluidity to meet the moment at

[14:35] hand, which includes meeting the person

[14:36] in front of us at hand. So, just like

[14:38] you said, like your partner, it's like

[14:40] if he's more in his feminine, you might

[14:41] balance in your masculine or vice versa

[14:43] when you're more in your feminine. But

[14:44] that is an adaptive dance that is

[14:46] happening moment over moment. And I

[14:48] really like to think about what happens

[14:49] on planet Earth if we start to rebalance

[14:52] the masculine and feminine, not only

[14:53] inside of ourselves, but also

[14:55] systemically. And I'm I I think like

[14:57] this is one of the things I'm like, why

[14:58] isn't everyone doing this? Why doesn't

[15:00] everyone realize that this is how we get

[15:02] to live heaven on earth, but that starts

[15:03] from safety? And so I'm really curious

[15:06] to know like what do you see like

[15:09] obviously we have our own individual

[15:11] patternings and you know inherited

[15:12] traumas and things that we have but

[15:14] there's also right now you know we're in

[15:16] the the news cycle right now is the

[15:17] whole Cornell 7 and you know it's no

[15:19] mystery that we're living inside of you

[15:22] know extreme patriarchy that you know

[15:25] the Epstein files we have you know

[15:27] confirmed felons and rapists in very

[15:29] high positions of power we have the head

[15:32] of the government saying like we're

[15:33] going to give pe young boys testosterone

[15:35] and if they rape people well then look

[15:37] out lookout people in the port. Like

[15:39] there's just this like wild increasing

[15:42] um what feels like misogyny and and I

[15:45] and I don't say this as from a victim

[15:47] because I personally don't feel like a

[15:48] victim of that but I do see it eroding

[15:53] the collective safety that women are

[15:56] experiencing. And I would like to know

[15:58] from you like how do you discern or how

[16:00] do you help your people

[16:02] see the difference between what's my

[16:04] inherited patterns and attachment styles

[16:07] and wounding versus like what is the

[16:09] reality of I am swimming in what could

[16:11] be an unsafe soup? Like is it safe

[16:13] actually to have meats? Oh god, it's

[16:16] it's pretty crazy where we are right now

[16:18] and especially as like I it's the

[16:20] saddest admission I'm going to make. I

[16:21] have never met a woman that has not had

[16:23] some kind of essay situation. I have

[16:25] never I have yet to meet a woman that's

[16:27] been like, "Oh, I've never had a man

[16:28] disrespect my boundaries or you know,

[16:30] and then and not in a positive or

[16:32] negative. It's just a harsh reality."

[16:34] And I understand what you mean because I

[16:35] have always worked in very

[16:36] male-dominated industries. And I used to

[16:39] think, "No, come on. We're equal." Like,

[16:40] you know, when you're in high school and

[16:41] you're like, "No, come on." until you're

[16:43] in it. And then you're like, "Oh, sorry.

[16:45] Why is he getting paid three times as

[16:46] much? And why does he keep getting all

[16:48] this marketing? I am the only female.

[16:50] Like, it's me and Mel Robbins in the top

[16:52] 20 in education. It's all the rest are

[16:53] men right now." And you're like, but yet

[16:55] why did the men just keep getting all

[16:57] the opportunities but not the two women

[16:59] that are carrying all of this weight? So

[17:01] like

[17:02] >> that's very much there what I kind of

[17:05] start to look at because like I I it's

[17:07] so wild. I get to say I wrote the book

[17:08] on it.

[17:09] >> So I wrote my book.

[17:10] >> Yeah.

[17:11] >> Just tell us what's the tell us what's

[17:12] the name of the book. Just

[17:15] >> a plug. It's called Why am I like this?

[17:17] And it's about understanding your

[17:18] patterns. Why am I like this?

[17:21] >> Because I at first it was going to be

[17:22] called what the [ __ ] is wrong with me?

[17:23] And I was like, "Hard, little hard." And

[17:26] >> well, I I made a sweatshirt that said,

[17:28] "Fuck off. I'm meditating." So, I am uh

[17:31] I feel like you and I are from the same

[17:32] school.

[17:34] >> You're in New York.

[17:36] >> Yeah, exactly.

[17:37] >> As I say, it's like my New York girl.

[17:38] I'm like, you know, that like [ __ ] is a

[17:40] term of endearment.

[17:41] >> That's right.

[17:41] >> And I had learned that in California.

[17:43] And so anyway, so what I've really

[17:45] started to see is when we're starting to

[17:47] understand between like is this my is

[17:50] this a trauma, a trigger, an old wound

[17:52] versus like you said, am I living in a

[17:54] space of like that's just what this is,

[17:55] right? Like yeah, all these men are

[17:57] getting these opportunities or the the

[17:58] this is this. What I like to look at is

[18:01] what is the intensity of the body

[18:03] sensations? So let's just use an

[18:05] example. I I always kind of use this

[18:07] because it's just the easiest when

[18:08] you're dating to relate to it or even in

[18:10] a relationship. Someone doesn't text

[18:12] you, right? like maybe they didn't text

[18:14] you good morning or it's been 25 30

[18:16] minutes and you didn't get a response

[18:18] back. Now, what we're looking for is

[18:22] maybe somebody more regulated that has

[18:24] not had a a traumatic childhood or had

[18:26] parents and caregivers that were very

[18:27] tuned to their needs like lucky you. I'm

[18:29] so grateful that you had that

[18:30] experience.

[18:32] Maybe that person would look and go,

[18:33] "Huh, they didn't text me. Maybe they're

[18:36] at work or something. I'll talk to them

[18:37] later. No big deal." Right? And you toss

[18:38] your phone and you go on with your day.

[18:40] There's no body sensations. There's no

[18:43] there's no manic energy or shutting

[18:45] down. But on top of it, there's no

[18:47] urgency. There's no narrative and story

[18:50] of like, but where are they and why

[18:51] aren't they here and I need them to know

[18:52] and what's happening and why didn't they

[18:54] text me and do they not like me? We

[18:56] start to put our core beliefs and we

[18:58] interject them into the story and the

[19:00] creation of the narrative. So somebody

[19:02] that's insecure, hi it's me, I was me,

[19:04] not is was me, was, you know, because

[19:08] that's the thing with attachment styles.

[19:09] If I can go on an ADHD tangent for 3

[19:11] seconds is they are not fixed. You can

[19:13] be anxious and avoidant and disorganized

[19:16] and it they are not fixed attachments.

[19:18] You can earn your secure. You can

[19:20] vacasillate between anxious people are

[19:22] also avoidant. Avoidant people are

[19:24] anxious. Like please stop listening to

[19:26] people on the internet that are trying

[19:27] to clickbait you into the fearful

[19:29] avoidant does this. It's like they're

[19:31] not a Tomagotchi. That's a person. So

[19:33] understand complexity of nuance of

[19:34] humans. So anyways go on. I digress. But

[19:36] that that's really I don't I've never

[19:38] heard anyone say that that attachment

[19:40] styles are changeable that they're

[19:42] mutable. Uh so that feels really let's

[19:45] let's double click on that because I

[19:46] think that people when you have

[19:47] something that is a type

[19:49] >> by definition it's meant to be an

[19:51] identity which is great for marketing

[19:53] but it's not true because just like your

[19:55] masculine and feminine would balance

[19:57] with a person so would your anxious or

[19:58] attachment style depending on who you

[20:01] are relating to. That's because when

[20:03] people forget, like somebody messaged me

[20:04] yesterday. I was on TikTok live and he

[20:06] said, "I'm really anxious. Why is my

[20:08] avoidant doing this, this, and this?"

[20:10] And I said, "I hate to break it to you,

[20:11] you're also avoidant." And he was like,

[20:12] "Huh? What do you mean? No, I'm

[20:14] anxious." And I was like, "Let me

[20:15] explain." I said, "Do you notice that

[20:16] your only sole focus is why are they

[20:18] doing it? What are they thinking? What's

[20:20] coming up for them?" I said, "You're

[20:21] abandoning. You're avoiding. How does

[20:23] this make me feel? What's coming up for

[20:25] me? What What am I What are my needs in

[20:27] this moment? Because you're" And he was

[20:29] like, "Oh [ __ ] I see what you mean." I

[20:31] said and avoidant people when they shut

[20:33] down they are feeling immense amounts of

[20:35] anxiety and I'll give you an example. So

[20:38] there is the stillface experiment that

[20:40] was done but Mary Ainsworth did the

[20:42] strange experiment. I don't know if are

[20:43] you familiar?

[20:44] >> No.

[20:45] >> [ __ ] love this [ __ ] So anyways the

[20:47] strange experiment was done in the 70s '

[20:49] 80s. It's it's the type of thing that's

[20:50] been replicated. And so what Mary

[20:51] Answorth did was she had a two-way

[20:53] mirror and she had moms bring their kids

[20:56] 12 to 18 months and put them on one side

[20:58] of the mirror and then she had the mom

[21:00] leave the room and go to the other side.

[21:02] Now what she documented wasn't just when

[21:05] the mom left. She also documented when

[21:07] the mom came back in. And what she saw

[21:09] she really was at the time this was

[21:10] before disorganized that kind of

[21:12] amalgamation of that trauma came in.

[21:14] This was really looking at anxious

[21:15] avoidant insecure. and what she saw and

[21:18] what they did was they had heart rate

[21:19] monitors in all the kids so that they

[21:20] could see what was going on. And so when

[21:22] the moms left for the anxious kid, the

[21:25] kid was inconsolable. Nothing they did

[21:27] was calm the kid down. When the mom came

[21:30] back, the kid still would not relax

[21:32] because it was scared that the mom was

[21:34] going to do it again. So that was the

[21:35] anxious child. The secure child cried,

[21:39] got a little upset, calmed down a bit.

[21:41] When the mom came back, reconnected with

[21:42] the mom and was fine. Right? That's a

[21:44] normal connection with a child that

[21:46] their mom leaves. So then she saw but

[21:48] the avoidant child was the most

[21:49] interesting. The avoidant child watched

[21:51] the mom leave, kept playing and when the

[21:53] mom came in kept playing. And so Mary

[21:56] Ainsworth said, "I call [ __ ] There

[21:57] is no way this must be amassed. Do you

[21:59] know who had the highest heart rate and

[22:01] anxiety of the three?"

[22:03] >> The avoidant child.

[22:04] >> The avoidant child. Because what the

[22:06] avoidant child learned was it's not safe

[22:08] to express and show. So shut down. And

[22:10] we've gotten into a time where there's

[22:12] this villainization of like, well, they

[22:13] just don't care. And if they wanted to,

[22:15] they would. And it's like, well, you

[22:16] know what, baby? If you wanted to, you

[22:17] would as well. If you didn't want to be

[22:18] anxious, you wouldn't. So, cut the

[22:19] [ __ ] Let's stop using these

[22:21] sweeping generalizations. People are not

[22:22] bumper stickers. And that's where I

[22:25] start to get really conscious of am I

[22:28] trying so hard to understand them that

[22:30] at the risk that I lose myself.

[22:31] >> Yeah. And actually, pause for a second

[22:34] cuz like my whole body I just started

[22:35] crying and my I feel

[22:38] >> uh like I can feel the sadness and maybe

[22:40] this is hitting something in me of the

[22:42] avoidant of like I'm good. I don't need

[22:44] it. I'll just do it all myself. But I'm

[22:46] just like feeling those little kids

[22:48] pretending like they're okay when their

[22:49] mom leaves and pretending like they

[22:51] don't care when their mom comes back.

[22:53] And just taking a beat of like if anyone

[22:55] is listening to this and that brings up

[22:56] emotion or if that is news to you that

[22:59] maybe there is like layers and layers of

[23:01] protection on top of a little kid who

[23:03] really wants to feel seen and attached

[23:05] and held and safe. Like like can we give

[23:08] that little kid some love? And I'm

[23:10] curious how you invite people back to

[23:13] putting their attention on themselves

[23:15] because regardless of your style, it

[23:16] seems like the antidote is how do I love

[23:18] and take care of myself and my inner

[23:20] little one.

[23:21] >> 100%. So, there's one way that I love,

[23:23] and I'll get to that, but I will say

[23:24] this.

[23:25] >> It's funny. I did a real saying. I feel

[23:28] I feel sympathy and I feel bad for

[23:30] people with avoidant attachment that

[23:32] don't feel like they can be themselves,

[23:34] that don't feel safe to love, that don't

[23:36] feel like this is I didn't say I excuse

[23:38] bad behavior. I said, I feel empathy

[23:41] towards people that feel like they need

[23:42] to shut down in order to be safe. My

[23:44] sister is avoided. That's how she keeps

[23:45] herself safe. She's an amazing human. My

[23:47] partner is more avoided. Doesn't make

[23:48] these bad people. And what was

[23:50] interesting was there was the the people

[23:53] that have very clearly done the work of

[23:54] like, hey, like I love that you're

[23:56] holding this nuance and two conflicting

[23:57] thoughts. You know, a lot of us are

[23:58] struggling. And then there were the

[24:00] people that are charad of like, well,

[24:02] you know who I feel worse for? The

[24:04] anxious that they hurt. That's who I

[24:05] feel worse for. And it's like, oh, so

[24:08] it's a tit for tat. You see it in the

[24:10] binary of like, well, I'm hurting more.

[24:12] But you don't understand that if you

[24:14] stopped only focusing on yourself in

[24:16] that moment of all you could understand

[24:18] someone else. And if you could someone

[24:19] understand someone else, you might

[24:20] understand yourself because my anxious

[24:21] babes also need to understand your

[24:23] behavior can be way too [ __ ] much.

[24:25] There are times where like I've had to

[24:26] block people cuz you're like it doesn't

[24:28] stop. It's after one after another it's

[24:30] this fighting and volatility and I need

[24:31] you to hear me and you need to validate

[24:33] me that it gets even the most secure

[24:35] person's like whoa whoa whoa man I hands

[24:38] up. All right.

[24:39] >> Pleasurable. It's not it's not.

[24:42] >> Yeah. So the way that I kind of help

[24:44] people to come back when you catch

[24:46] yourself asking why questions, why don't

[24:48] they want me? Why don't they like me?

[24:49] Why aren't they into me? Why da da da da

[24:51] da da da da. Stop yourself and say, I'm

[24:54] going to reframe what don't I like?

[24:56] What? Because so there was a

[24:58] neuroscientist that she discovered that

[24:59] when people say why why, what they're

[25:01] really saying is I don't like. When we

[25:03] ask a ton of why questions, it's because

[25:04] we're uncomfortable. And so if we can

[25:06] stop, so if I'm looking at why didn't

[25:07] they call me and why didn't they text me

[25:09] and all this, usually what I'll do is

[25:10] reframe to I don't like that they

[25:11] didn't. Okay, what don't you like about

[25:13] it?

[25:14] >> I felt really small. Okay, so that's

[25:15] what this is about. You felt dismissed.

[25:17] Then we go into my two favorite

[25:19] questions, which I was going to ask you

[25:20] when we were in mini coaching, but I was

[25:22] like, I'll save it.

[25:24] >> How old do you feel in that moment?

[25:26] >> Yes.

[25:26] >> Right. How old do you feel? Like, do I

[25:28] feel like the adult right now or do I

[25:29] feel like a child?

[25:30] >> Yeah.

[25:31] >> And then if you go into I feel like a

[25:32] kid. Well, who taught you this? Where

[25:35] did you learn this from? Who taught this

[25:36] to you? And it doesn't mean

[25:38] >> what? Because in that moment, like who

[25:39] Yeah. Who taught what? Maybe that if you

[25:42] say, so let's say it's saying, "They

[25:44] didn't text me. I felt dismissed." Okay.

[25:46] So, is that a bad thing? Well, I don't

[25:48] feel like I'm good enough. I don't feel

[25:49] like I'm worthy. I don't feel like I

[25:50] deserve anybody's love. Okay. Who taught

[25:52] you that? Who taught you that you're not

[25:54] worthy and deserving? What behaviors did

[25:56] they show to make you believe that? All

[25:58] right, friends. I want to jump in and

[26:00] really connect the dots of how you can

[26:02] get ahead of these triggers by

[26:03] increasing your threshold of tolerance.

[26:06] Right? Okay, this is one of the things

[26:07] that Sabrina is talking about, which is

[26:08] basically the space of time between a

[26:11] trigger and how you respond to that

[26:13] trigger. And so many of us when we're in

[26:15] chronic fight or flight, when we're in

[26:17] stress response, we don't have an

[26:19] option, right? We just involuntarily go

[26:21] into fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. And

[26:24] this is when our inner child takes over.

[26:25] This is so much of what Sabrina is

[26:27] talking about. But what I have found is

[26:29] that when we meditate, certainly we're

[26:31] not perfect. It doesn't take the

[26:32] triggers away, but it does give you a

[26:34] beat to take a moment and say, "Hey, who

[26:38] do I want to be in this situation? How

[26:41] can I take care of my inner child? Do I

[26:43] just want to have an involuntary

[26:46] reaction? Do I want to just quote

[26:47] unquote lose my [ __ ] on this person? Or

[26:49] can I actually regulate? Can I say,

[26:50] "Hey, you know what? I need a few

[26:52] minutes. Can I go and do a Zeba sitting

[26:54] and come back to this conversation

[26:56] regulated, present, maybe not perfect,

[26:59] maybe still having hurt feelings or

[27:02] feeling like you want to air something,

[27:03] but from a place of regulation where

[27:06] your inner adult gets to be in charge

[27:08] and not your wounded, triggered inner

[27:10] child. So, I highly recommend if you're

[27:13] feeling like this all sounds great

[27:14] conceptually, but you're having a hard

[27:16] time embodying this. If you're feeling

[27:18] addicted to wondering if they've texted

[27:20] back, if you're feeling stuck in

[27:22] relational patterns or ruts and blaming

[27:24] your partner for your state of

[27:26] consciousness, I find that Zea can give

[27:28] you a really beautiful way out. It's

[27:31] going to basically give you the keys to

[27:33] the prisons that many of us have been

[27:35] locked in since childhood, trapped in

[27:37] our own trauma. So that trauma gets

[27:39] stored in our nervous system. And what

[27:40] Ziva does is that it gives your body

[27:42] rest so deep. It lets your body feel so

[27:44] safe that you can start to let go of

[27:46] those triggers one by one so that you

[27:49] get to now choose how you want to

[27:50] respond to a situation. So, as you can

[27:53] hear in this episode, it's I'm not

[27:54] perfect. I'm meditating for a long time.

[27:56] But I do now feel like I have more of a

[28:00] window to choose how I want to respond.

[28:02] And I feel like I have liberated myself

[28:04] again and again and again. And I feel

[28:06] like I'm making better and better

[28:08] mistakes. I'm evolving um in my

[28:11] relational learnings. So, if you're

[28:12] curious about this work and how it can

[28:14] actually improve not only your

[28:15] relationship with others, but your

[28:17] relationship with yourself, you can

[28:19] check out um and get started at

[28:20] zebmeditation.com.

[28:22] The first training that I recommend,

[28:23] level one, is only 15 minutes a day for

[28:25] 15 days and you graduate with an

[28:27] everyday twice a day practice, a

[28:29] technique that rewires your

[28:31] neurochemistry for life. So, check it

[28:33] out.

[28:36] I love you. Enjoy. Okay, so I just Here

[28:39] we go. We're going in. We're going in

[28:40] because this is exactly where I was.

[28:44] >> So, give you some context, right? Um was

[28:47] at Burning Man a few weeks ago. I I'm a

[28:51] big burner. I've been going for a long

[28:52] time and met someone on like the last

[28:55] night and and and I will say that a big

[28:57] part of my journey because I think

[28:59] Bernie man is is a ceremony wrapped as a

[29:01] party. And as the man was burning, what

[29:04] was what I was representing was burning

[29:06] was my unworthiness. like any part of me

[29:08] that believed that I was unworthy of

[29:09] love, unworthy of a relationship, that

[29:11] I've like failed at the relationship

[29:12] game cuz I'm 47, I'm a single mom, and

[29:15] I've like won every other area of my

[29:17] life, but like this one I'm like, how

[29:18] the [ __ ] am I still single? Do you know

[29:20] what I mean? It's like very confusing.

[29:22] And so I'm just and then just all of

[29:24] that like I'm too old, it's too late,

[29:26] I'm parmenopausal, like just and just

[29:29] letting it all burn with the man. And

[29:31] then got to the point where my best

[29:33] friend and I were in the temple looking

[29:34] in each other's eyes just like weeping

[29:36] tears of full-blown gratitude of like

[29:38] I'm so grateful I exist. I'm so grateful

[29:40] you exist. Like my life is amazing. Like

[29:42] not faking it. Like genuine enthusiasm

[29:45] for what is. And of course within

[29:47] minutes I meet someone right and he's

[29:49] just like

[29:51] where have you been? I've been looking

[29:52] for you for 52 years. Like you're an

[29:54] empress. you can meet me in the 5D and

[29:56] the I mean without this is make many we

[29:58] we spend like seven hours like all night

[29:59] long and it's just dropping dropping

[30:01] dropping he feels safe and like oh my

[30:03] gosh I want to take my time with you I

[30:05] we're going to go have like this and the

[30:07] blah blah blah blah blah like everything

[30:09] you could ever want to hear comes into

[30:12] New York a week later takes me out on

[30:13] this amazing date it's so fun I write

[30:15] him a [ __ ] poem I haven't written a

[30:17] poem since I was in seventh grade from

[30:20] my seventh grade boyfriend calls me the

[30:22] next day in tears he's so moved he's

[30:24] just like, "Wow." And then he just

[30:26] disappears. Like, he just dissolved into

[30:29] nothingness. I've never been loved bomb

[30:31] before. I've never I've never had that

[30:33] happen. And it kicked up a level I would

[30:37] consider myself more avoidant

[30:38] historically. I'm like, I'm good. I

[30:40] don't need that. And it kicked up a

[30:41] level of anxiety and like anxious like

[30:44] anxious attachment of and I think I was

[30:47] just confused of like what is like what

[30:50] actually is happening? Was that all fake

[30:52] or is this like which one is real?

[30:54] Right. Is what you were saying a Bernie

[30:55] man real or is this like radio silence?

[30:58] And he did say there's stuff going on in

[31:00] my life. I'll I'll call you later.

[31:02] Didn't call. I'll call you later. Didn't

[31:03] call. I'll call you Friday. Didn't call.

[31:05] And like at this point I'm like I am a

[31:08] queen. You do not but I don't care what

[31:10] your styles are. You do not disrespect a

[31:11] queen. Like do not say you're going to

[31:13] do something and not do it. So I have

[31:15] transitioned. You know I'm like okay

[31:16] this is this man is out of the you know

[31:19] out of the pool. But it's still like

[31:21] someone and I was of course my whole

[31:23] feed on Instagram is now like all

[31:24] relationship experts and this and

[31:26] anxious which is a whole another thing.

[31:29] But I read and you can tell me if this

[31:30] is true or not that rejection is

[31:34] actually much easier to process on the

[31:36] nervous system than ghosting or just

[31:38] ambiguity because it's like wait is this

[31:41] am I about to marry this like king of

[31:43] kings who's like doing all these amazing

[31:44] things in the world or did I just get

[31:46] rejected? I actually don't know which

[31:48] one is real, so I can't move in a

[31:51] direction. So, yeah, there is a really

[31:54] happy ending to this, by the way. But,

[31:56] like, I'll pause there and I'm I'm I'd

[31:58] like to hear the where you where we are.

[31:59] >> Okay. Well, hopefully he's alive. Um,

[32:02] the Okay. The reason that

[32:06] Wait, can you tell me how it ends before

[32:08] I go on any further because I have to

[32:10] decide how hard I'm going to be.

[32:12] >> Yeah. So basically I made a very clear

[32:14] call that like I'm not available for

[32:16] this like regardless of what's happening

[32:18] with you. I am not available for this.

[32:21] Um you don't you don't seem to have the

[32:22] capacity to be in the relationship that

[32:24] I desire. So I was just very clear. I

[32:27] was like you know thank you for the

[32:28] imprint. It truly was magical and and I

[32:31] that's real like I'm genuinely grateful

[32:32] for what we shared. It showed it left an

[32:35] imprint of what is possible my body and

[32:36] I just said it doesn't seem like you

[32:37] have the capacity to be in a

[32:38] relationship that I desire. if that

[32:40] changes, you know, in the future, you

[32:42] know where to find me. And we are

[32:43] transitioning into friends. And the like

[32:46] the day after or two days after I sent

[32:47] that and was very clear of like honoring

[32:49] myself

[32:51] and yes, there was like a eight days of

[32:53] anxious like is he going to did he did

[32:54] he did he? Um is he going to text me?

[32:57] And he didn't. Um, but I met someone

[32:59] this weekend and it's and it's been so

[33:02] fun and it's been uh like everything

[33:06] that that thing it was like an immediate

[33:09] gift of that like we'll call him Mr.

[33:12] Ghost like of everything that he taught

[33:15] me where it's like oh actually I don't

[33:16] want someone who's so busy and so

[33:18] important that they don't have space for

[33:20] relationship. I certainly don't want

[33:22] someone where I don't feel prioritized

[33:25] and and I like so it just really tuned

[33:28] me to what I actually desire. And so far

[33:31] what's showing up now is just a level of

[33:33] like oh oh like every layer that I'm

[33:36] discovering this person it's like every

[33:38] new ring of the tree gets more exciting

[33:41] and more entrancing but I'm not I don't

[33:43] feel anxious but we're also in a

[33:45] reciprocal. Do you know what I mean?

[33:47] It's like there is a balance of give and

[33:49] take in this this new exchange.

[33:51] >> Yeah. It's like it's a dance, right? I

[33:53] would say, okay, so the reason that if

[33:55] you were to just get rejected versus

[33:57] ghosting is because rejection closes the

[33:58] loop and ghosting keeps it open, right?

[34:00] Because you don't know why and you're

[34:01] filling in all the blanks. I'm going to

[34:03] be fully honest with you. The minute you

[34:05] told me that he said, "Where have you

[34:07] been all my life?" I instantly went,

[34:09] "You're never going to see this guy

[34:10] again." And the reason that that

[34:12] happened is because he fell in love with

[34:13] the idea of you, but not actually who

[34:15] you are. because it was all this

[34:16] grandiosity and this big and then of

[34:19] course there's that little girl in there

[34:20] that's like you see me wait you like see

[34:23] me for who I am you think I'm amazing I

[34:25] think I'm like oh my god finally but

[34:29] realistically then we think that's

[34:30] fanciful thinking right doesn't that

[34:32] sound like a child of like you're this

[34:33] queen and this empress and you're like

[34:34] yeah yeah spare me I'm a [ __ ] I know

[34:36] I'm a boss [ __ ] I'm a [ __ ] legend I

[34:39] know all these things but how do you

[34:40] know that how do you know that about me

[34:44] within three seconds because that's

[34:46] what's happening is that's projecting.

[34:47] And my mama has always told me since I

[34:49] was a kid, when they started 100, where

[34:50] else are they going to go? And that's

[34:52] why we want to go slow to allow your

[34:54] nervous system to feel safe with this

[34:57] person, right? Because if you had met

[34:58] him and he went, "Hey, this was a really

[35:00] fun conversation. I'd love to come and

[35:02] see you in New York." You're like,

[35:02] "Cool. Let me know if you're there." And

[35:04] if he calls, he calls and he doesn't,

[35:05] right? And you're just like, "Cool." And

[35:07] then if he doesn't, you're like, "Well,

[35:08] I didn't really know him that well, so

[35:10] it's no love lost." But what happens is

[35:12] he built he wrote a check he wasn't

[35:13] ready to cash and then that hits that

[35:15] deep hisest core wound of like am I too

[35:18] much am I not enough like I'd be curious

[35:19] what was your experience when you

[35:21] started to noticed he was pulling away

[35:23] or uh there's the change what was coming

[35:26] up for you what were your what was the

[35:28] narrative and the story that was

[35:29] happening within you was definitely the

[35:31] in the beginning it was definitely the

[35:32] checking oh it did he write yet? Did he

[35:34] write? like it was definitely that

[35:35] addictive dopamine like just hoping that

[35:39] he would cuz it was so exciting. It was

[35:41] so intoxicating. So that was definitely

[35:43] present. And then he did in his defense

[35:46] say like my this there's three really

[35:48] big things happening in my life like I

[35:50] need space. So I was able to recalibrate

[35:52] but also I was like look if I'm your

[35:53] empress like you would bring me in. Do

[35:56] you know what I mean? Like you would

[35:57] want my counsel on these things even if

[35:59] you can't speak about someone else's

[36:01] privac privacy. So, um, but it kicked

[36:04] up, um, what did it kick up?

[36:08] >> It was also

[36:09] >> too much too soon, right? You're like,

[36:11] too soon. We're also both double Aries,

[36:13] by the way, like sun and moon Aries. It

[36:14] was like a lot of fire and enthusiasm.

[36:16] Um, but but I will say it was it was

[36:20] like just that hoping and wanting. But I

[36:23] do feel proud of all the work that I had

[36:25] done beforehand that unworthiness that

[36:27] like promising to take care of little

[36:29] Emily like really trusting my that I am

[36:32] enough. I didn't spin into old stories

[36:35] of like maybe I was too much. Maybe I

[36:37] did and I was just like you know what he

[36:39] is not available for what I desire and I

[36:42] just closed the loop and I did not spin

[36:44] down and I and I really feel proud of

[36:46] that.

[36:47] >> That's huge and that's hu that is so

[36:49] much progress. Now, if we go, okay, what

[36:51] can I learn from this moving forward? It

[36:53] would be, you know what, I'm because

[36:55] what happens is little Emily is the one

[36:56] that was driving the car. That's how

[36:58] that fanciful thinking comes of like,

[37:00] and he's my king and he's my this and

[37:01] we're because what it represented was I

[37:03] don't have to date anymore. I finally

[37:04] found somebody. I don't have to do this.

[37:06] I'm finally chosen. Gh, I and then it's

[37:09] a new identity. I'm not the [ __ ] up.

[37:11] Maybe there's nothing wrong with me.

[37:12] Look, he's just hadn't found me this

[37:13] whole time.

[37:14] >> I won the game. And he's also like very

[37:16] powerful, you know? He's like one, you

[37:17] know, he's like one capitalism. He's

[37:19] like one he's very powerful. So there's

[37:21] like all of that sort of like patriarchy

[37:24] and like like that was all at play too.

[37:26] >> Of course. And look at the life he can

[37:28] give me and look at the life we can

[37:29] create. I can be by his side.

[37:31] >> We'll build temples together. We'll

[37:32] build, you know, it was Yeah.

[37:34] >> And that right now the promise to make

[37:36] her is, hey, by the way, you don't need

[37:38] to protect me. I need to protect you. I

[37:40] have to be the adult because little

[37:42] Emily came out and she was dating him

[37:44] and she's like, okay, yep, you're right.

[37:45] I'm the queen. here's my pretty pretty

[37:46] princess crown and I have my jewels on.

[37:49] And then you had to be the adult to go,

[37:51] "Oh, sweetie, I'm so sorry he

[37:53] disappointed you." Probably like most of

[37:55] the men in your childhood had. If they

[37:57] were mostly alcoholics and disappointing

[37:59] and it was these women that were so

[38:01] strong and maybe he represented that you

[38:03] didn't have to be that you could finally

[38:05] soften and receive and be like, "H, I

[38:08] don't have to. Oh, wait. Yes, I do."

[38:10] Whereas now, it's not about any of that.

[38:12] What we're looking for is that it's two

[38:14] people going, I think I like you and you

[38:16] like me. Let's see if we have something

[38:17] here. And if we don't, that's okay, too.

[38:19] What makes it healthy is that it can end

[38:21] at any time, and I'm not beholden to

[38:23] this. Because now that you have somebody

[38:25] new, it's like, this is where we want to

[38:26] slow it down and go, you know what? I'm

[38:28] not going to make any determinations

[38:29] about you. I'm not going to meet your

[38:30] friends and family. No, you're not

[38:31] meeting my kid. You're not doing any of

[38:32] this. You know what we're going to do?

[38:34] We're going to have a date and just see

[38:35] how we have in this interaction. I'm

[38:37] going to see that when I say no, how do

[38:38] you respond? When I set a boundary, what

[38:41] is that like for you? Do you take

[38:42] accountability and ownership? Because

[38:44] fundamentally, little Emily wants the

[38:46] big, but what big Emily needs is

[38:48] actually a normal Tuesday that feels

[38:50] really relaxing and calming to her

[38:52] nervous system. That's not up and down.

[38:54] That's not big. That's not whisking me

[38:56] on a plane to [ __ ] Paris after 3 days

[38:58] of knowing you. It's bringing over

[39:00] leftovers or bringing over food to my

[39:02] house and sitting on the couch so we

[39:03] could watch a movie together, right?

[39:04] Like those are the true intimate

[39:06] beautiful moment. Can you have all the

[39:07] other stuff? Of course. I hope you

[39:08] travel and I hope you have a great time.

[39:10] But we want to be able to build towards

[39:12] something. Otherwise, when we start at

[39:14] that intensity, we fall for the idea of

[39:16] them. And then there's a cognitive

[39:18] dissonance because like you had said

[39:20] this, who was this king in this this and

[39:22] then this ghostaster, that's the

[39:24] dissonance. Who you believed he was

[39:26] isn't who he was showing up as. And so

[39:28] of course that any human I don't know

[39:30] any person that would be reigned with

[39:32] all that love that wouldn't feel

[39:33] anxiety. That is so [ __ ] human.

[39:35] >> And what you did with it is beautiful.

[39:37] You stood up for yourself. You said no.

[39:39] And now it's like okay what can like

[39:40] because I love act acceptance and

[39:42] compassion therapy or whatever it is and

[39:44] the whole principle of it is what can I

[39:46] learn from the situation because that's

[39:47] how we can move on. Ruminating and

[39:49] spiraling is what's wrong with me and

[39:51] what did I do wrong and and we notice

[39:52] how there's never an answer. There's

[39:54] never a soling

[39:56] I understand this. I show compassion to

[39:58] myself and what can I do differently

[39:59] moving forward? What can I learn from

[40:01] this? Sometimes it's as simple as I met

[40:04] now I understand what it is that I like

[40:05] and what I don't. Right? That's okay. It

[40:07] doesn't have to be big. You don't not

[40:08] everything happens for a reason in that

[40:10] way. But maybe now we learned, you know,

[40:12] I think I gave my heart a little too

[40:14] quickly because I was so excited about

[40:15] the possibility that now this next

[40:18] person right now it's reciprocal and

[40:19] it's great, but I have 10 te I have 10

[40:22] toes down and little Emily doesn't have

[40:24] to make sure that this person chooses

[40:25] us. I'm going to make sure I choose him.

[40:27] I'm going to make sure that this works

[40:28] for me and I'm going to make sure in the

[40:29] same way you would protect your son from

[40:31] anything bad in the world, you now

[40:33] protect her in the same way. And now you

[40:35] get to decide if this person enters your

[40:37] life, not just are they letting you into

[40:38] theirs because it's it's a it's two

[40:41] sides. And that's why I'm saying it's

[40:43] okay to just enjoy this for what it is

[40:45] >> and be like, "Wow, this is going really

[40:47] great. I like him." And if it if it goes

[40:49] further, awesome. And if not,

[40:51] >> that's okay. We're two adults making a

[40:53] choice. It's

[40:54] >> so beautiful. Thank you for that. So So

[40:56] two questions. One, how do I know? Cuz

[40:59] like when little Emily took the wheel

[41:00] and she was like, "Oh my god, I am an

[41:02] empress and we are going to change the

[41:03] world. we are going to like I don't know

[41:06] like my conscious mind does not know

[41:07] that little Emily has taken over. I

[41:09] don't think when our triggers get up.

[41:10] It's very hard to know that the little

[41:12] one has taken over. So how do you check

[41:15] yourself in those moment? How do I check

[41:16] myself and how does anyone listening to

[41:18] this who's been in something similar?

[41:20] Like how do you check to see wait is my

[41:22] adult in charge or is my child in

[41:23] charge?

[41:25] >> When I say that sometimes I'll say

[41:26] things like I was with my therapist and

[41:28] I said you know I was like I'm I'm still

[41:30] reconciling. I was told growing up that

[41:32] like I was going to have the rich guy

[41:33] and I was going to have I was supposed

[41:34] to find a guy that was going to protect

[41:36] and take care of me and my partner works

[41:38] for me. So the t the tables have been

[41:40] turned and even that's where I stopped

[41:42] and I was like that doesn't sound like a

[41:43] 36-year-old woman who is objective about

[41:46] the man that she has that's an

[41:47] incredible human being and loves her.

[41:48] That sounds like a child, doesn't it?

[41:50] It's even stopping to go and go, is this

[41:53] really the adult me or how old do I feel

[41:55] right now? Because if it's like I'm a

[41:57] queen and I'm all this, you're like let

[41:59] me ask you this. If your son came to you

[42:01] and was like, "Mom, she said I'm a king

[42:02] and I'm all this." Would you look and be

[42:04] like, "Sweetie, you're you're 13, okay?"

[42:06] Like, or you're 14, right? You're a kid,

[42:08] right? You don't I don't think you guys

[42:09] know. I don't think they're the love of

[42:10] your life. I think this is just someone

[42:12] you met. Why don't we just see what

[42:13] happens? What we want to do is also

[42:15] maybe even ask and go, "What facts do I

[42:16] have to back this up? How does this

[42:18] person know I'm a queen and that they're

[42:20] How are they supposed to know that?"

[42:21] It's challenging the narrative. It's not

[42:23] discrediting it. It's not going, "Oh,

[42:25] I'm a piece of [ __ ] There's nothing

[42:26] left for me." But it's also holding two

[42:28] conflicting thoughts to go, "Yeah, I

[42:31] believe I'm I'm amazing and I'm a queen,

[42:33] but I don't really know what this person

[42:35] knows about me in order to make that

[42:36] same determination." And you know, this

[42:38] does feel really exciting, but as much

[42:41] as it feels really exciting, I do think

[42:42] I need to be the adult to slow it down.

[42:44] And it's even just at like cuz I would I

[42:47] would all but guarantee when you were in

[42:48] that moment, did you feel like the

[42:49] 47year-old woman that's like now here

[42:52] going, "Ah, I see what you were doing."

[42:56] No, I couldn't see any of I was just

[42:57] like on the magic carpet ride and I was

[42:59] loving the magic carpet ride.

[43:02] >> And that's where even some like my mom

[43:03] always my mom's a smart woman. She goes

[43:05] when they're go when they're too sweet

[43:06] they'll give you a toothache. That's

[43:08] where we have to stop and go this is cuz

[43:10] I've had that I'll never forget I met

[43:11] this guy. I call him the conventionally

[43:12] handsome guy and I changed the way I

[43:14] dated after him. When we first had our

[43:15] first date it was that same thing where

[43:17] it was like I and I knew it was the type

[43:18] of thing you know when like immediately

[43:20] there's a something goes off in your gut

[43:22] that you're like this is a little too

[43:23] good to be true. He was successful and

[43:26] tall and gorgeous and six-pack and and

[43:29] and not even just the physical, mentally

[43:32] so funny. Like the type of thing that

[43:34] you're like, "Oh my god, stop. My cheeks

[43:35] are hurting. Like, I need a minute.

[43:36] Stop." Like just a connection. The

[43:39] sexual chemistry was through the roofs.

[43:41] Like he touched me and I was like, "All

[43:42] right, done. Okay, fine." It was just

[43:44] magnetic. And but I remember stopping

[43:47] and I remember he dropped me off and

[43:49] like I you know, I was walking to my

[43:50] house and I stopped and I went, "You

[43:52] know what, Seb? I know that you're

[43:53] really excited. Talking to yourself in

[43:54] third person actually reduces rumination

[43:56] versus first. And so I stopped and I

[43:58] said, you know, Sab, I know you were

[44:00] really excited about this, but sweetie

[44:01] pie, in the past, we've gotten really

[44:03] hurt from people that come on really

[44:04] strong. And I know that you feel really

[44:06] good and I know that you're enjoying

[44:08] this, but I also need you to know that

[44:09] I'm here to protect you and that if he

[44:11] does anything, it's not your job to keep

[44:12] him. And sure enough, he did. He showed

[44:16] his true colors over the weeks, and I

[44:17] handled it very differently than I ever

[44:19] would have because I was the adult in

[44:21] the room. And it's okay to stop and

[44:23] leave and go, "Hey, you know what, M? I

[44:25] know that you really want this to work

[44:27] out, and baby, it feels really good, but

[44:29] mama's here, and mama needs to tell you

[44:30] that more often than not, it might not,

[44:33] and that's okay. And I'm not prepping

[44:34] you to get to get sad in case it

[44:37] doesn't, but I am wanting to show that

[44:39] this person needs to earn a place in our

[44:41] life. He doesn't just get one because he

[44:42] says a lot of the right things."

[44:44] >> Yeah. Amen. And that that I find

[44:48] well I'll share my interpretation that

[44:50] I'm curious how you would translate this

[44:51] into the masculine and the feminine but

[44:52] my my amazing friend Mel Wells who works

[44:54] with like women and polarity and female

[44:56] breadwinners and all of that I've been

[44:57] doing a lot of her work through this and

[44:59] she's like you need to be in the egg

[45:00] frequency right and the egg is

[45:02] discerning the egg it's not just like

[45:04] the fastest sperm that gets to the egg

[45:06] the egg is deciding like which quality

[45:08] which DNA which qualities do I want to

[45:12] receive and and and that that level of

[45:15] discernment of like earning, do you even

[45:18] know who I am? Do have you proven this

[45:21] over time repeatedly? Um, and that I am

[45:24] the prize here that I have nothing to

[45:26] sell, nothing to prove, but that we need

[45:28] to create mutual compatibility and just

[45:30] being in that, you know, do I choose

[45:33] him? And and it's not a better or worse,

[45:36] but it does feel like it is the role of

[45:38] the feminine to actually one initiate,

[45:42] right, of like decide which of the

[45:44] suitors she's willing to entertain and

[45:46] then two and this is obviously in

[45:48] heterosexual relationships and from

[45:50] talking you know male female but I but I

[45:52] think it's a bigger conversation in

[45:53] masculine feminine but do you think does

[45:57] that feel true to you one that it is the

[45:58] role of the feminine to be like do I

[46:00] choose you in that oo discernment and

[46:03] then how would you translate relate that

[46:04] to someone who's listening who is who is

[46:06] male.

[46:07] >> I would say cuz it's funny. I remember

[46:09] when my partner and I first got

[46:11] together, he cooks and cleans and I it's

[46:13] just not my thing. Like he loves

[46:14] cooking. That's his thing. And his mom

[46:16] was over and she goes, "You're welcome."

[46:17] And I said, "What are you talking

[46:18] about?" And she goes, "Well, you're

[46:19] lucky. Look what I trained him as." And

[46:22] I looked at her and I said, "I don't

[46:24] think either one of us are lucky. I

[46:25] think we've both cultivated this

[46:26] relationship because I gave a [ __ ] ton

[46:28] to your son, too." And it's about

[46:31] knowing that I don't think anybody is I

[46:33] don't think intrinsically because I have

[46:34] a lot of men that are like, "Okay, cool.

[46:36] I'm also a prize. Like I'm an amazing

[46:38] person. I know how to show up. I'm very

[46:40] loving and just and and and fabulous and

[46:42] amazing." And I think that biologically,

[46:44] absolutely, the egg works with being

[46:46] like, "Yes, we get to choose." But I

[46:48] think, you know, at the same time,

[46:50] because then if we think about the

[46:51] sperm, they're just like, "I'll take

[46:52] it." And it's like, "No, no, I don't

[46:53] think men are that nimble to where

[46:55] they're just like, "I'll take anything

[46:56] that's in front of me." I hope not. I

[46:58] would say that what I'm looking for is

[47:00] both people to realize that each one of

[47:02] them brings something really incredible

[47:03] into this dynamic. And no one no one is

[47:05] more lucky than the other to have each

[47:06] other. We're both lucky that we found

[47:08] each other. We're both here cultivating

[47:10] and building. To me, like I have the

[47:12] partner I have because we built this,

[47:14] not because I was given it. I don't have

[47:16] the most amazing emotionally available.

[47:18] Like Ryan is so emotionally available.

[47:19] It's like palpable. He's so

[47:21] growthminded. But he didn't just like

[47:22] come off of that. And all of a sudden, I

[47:25] demanded that that's the relationship I

[47:27] required. And he then decided he was

[47:30] going to go to therapy because he

[47:31] realized he was falling under it. And he

[47:33] realized that he wants to become like

[47:35] his grandfather. His grandfather is the

[47:37] best man on the planet still with his

[47:38] grandmother. They've been together since

[47:40] they were 13 and they are 85. Like and

[47:43] and he looks at her apple of his eye.

[47:46] Like it's the most beautiful thing.

[47:48] Whereas Ryan's father was not right. He

[47:49] didn't have that male role model to

[47:51] teach him how to do these things. But

[47:54] Ryan could easily have gone, "Well, this

[47:55] is who I am. Take it or leave it." And I

[47:56] would have said, "No, thank you." It's

[47:58] cultivated by two people making a

[48:00] conscious choice every day to choose

[48:02] each other and themselves. And I think

[48:04] it's really important to hold both

[48:05] spaces for that because the person

[48:07] that's for you might actually not be the

[48:09] biggest person in the room. It might not

[48:11] be the person that you've always dreamed

[48:12] them to be. Maybe they are a little

[48:14] quieter because I don't shut the [ __ ]

[48:15] up. So, do I need someone else in the

[48:17] room that doesn't either? probably not.

[48:19] That's what So this new guy, he's like a

[48:21] he's a little reserved. Like his energy

[48:23] is really in. And I was like, wait, I

[48:24] don't need two peacocks in my

[48:26] relationship. Like I'm a [ __ ]

[48:27] peacock, you know? Like I don't need

[48:29] another peacock.

[48:30] >> No. And it's like what we say is like I

[48:32] am the picture and Ryan is the frame.

[48:34] You can't have two pictures. They're

[48:36] competing. You do need someone that

[48:37] keeps the structure and the

[48:40] >> And so that's where I look. And it's

[48:41] like, sure, like I had talked about

[48:42] earlier, I could go into this like, look

[48:44] at what I've done and I'm taking him

[48:45] around the world with me and we get to

[48:46] travel. And it's like, but I also have a

[48:48] rock and I have a support system and I

[48:50] have a man that has my lunch ready for

[48:52] when I walk out because he knows if I

[48:54] don't eat that I'm not going to be at my

[48:55] best. And to me, that's what I needed. I

[48:58] didn't just need someone that throws

[49:00] money at the problem or that's working

[49:01] 24 hours that they can't be there for

[49:03] me. Oh, but they have the private jet.

[49:05] And that's okay to take take hold of.

[49:08] And I think that when we're looking at a

[49:09] private jet,

[49:10] >> I mean, take me on a ride.

[49:12] >> Number one manifestation is an

[49:13] eco-friendly private jet. It's just I

[49:15] want it so bad. I'm on a flight with

[49:18] you. Great.

[49:20] >> I think it's just because I don't want

[49:21] like that's why I hate the main

[49:22] character energy. The reason I say that

[49:24] is because baby, you're the main

[49:26] character of your show. You are you are

[49:27] not even a [ __ ] extra in mine. And

[49:29] when people walk in thinking like, well,

[49:30] I am the main character. It's like,

[49:32] yeah, that's also arrogant as [ __ ] like

[49:34] you are you are yours but it doesn't

[49:36] mean you have earned a place to be a

[49:37] main character in my movie. I want you

[49:39] to take control of your life. I want you

[49:41] to demand the best for yourself. But

[49:44] sometimes that's in quiet moments.

[49:45] Sometimes that's in moments going I

[49:47] don't like this. No thank you. I'm not

[49:48] going to allow it. Or no, I'm not going

[49:50] to do this. Or I don't like the way that

[49:52] person spoke to me, so I'm going to tell

[49:53] them that. And if they don't receive it,

[49:55] I'm going to keep walking. That's you

[49:57] being the main character of your own

[49:58] movie. But it doesn't mean that you are

[50:00] the main character of everybody else's.

[50:01] And I think it's important to remember

[50:03] that I don't want everyone to just sit

[50:04] back and be like, "Ah, I just wait for

[50:06] them to come to me. It's very much both

[50:09] people choosing each other, but I need

[50:10] you to know who the [ __ ] you are so that

[50:12] you can demand it and allow it into your

[50:14] life when you see it."

[50:15] >> Yes. Worthiness, standards, and then

[50:18] reciprocity is so hot. And and I think

[50:21] what I I think the people who really

[50:22] love the main character energy thing and

[50:24] this is my interpretation of people who

[50:26] do feel unworthy or who aren't even

[50:28] filling up their own lives or know what

[50:30] they want or can express what they want.

[50:32] So that them becoming the main character

[50:33] of their own movie is really helpful

[50:35] medicine. But when someone wants to be

[50:36] the main character of everyone else's

[50:38] movie, I think that's narcissism,

[50:39] >> right? That's why I'm like, "No, baby,

[50:41] you're on yours." Or it's this very this

[50:42] entitlement of like, "Well, you know, I

[50:44] spent money on getting my hair and my

[50:46] nails done, so you need to take me to

[50:47] dinner on a first date." And it's like,

[50:49] you know what? Why don't you go for a

[50:50] walk with this person and even see if

[50:52] you want to go out with them again? Why

[50:54] don't you go listen, do whatever you

[50:55] want. You want to demand specific dates.

[50:58] I could give a [ __ ] This is your life,

[50:59] baby, and I want you to live it

[51:00] authentically,

[51:02] >> but your lived experience isn't

[51:03] everybody else's. And it's okay

[51:06] >> to go, you know what? Why don't we go

[51:07] for a walk? Let's grab a coffee. Let's

[51:09] go for a walk. If I like you, we'll go

[51:10] to dinner. If I don't, no harm, no foul.

[51:12] I need to get some steps in. Yeah,

[51:14] that's

[51:14] >> I don't know why everything has to be a

[51:16] production because what we're doing is

[51:18] we're people treating people as

[51:19] transactions. Well, you have to spend a

[51:20] certain amount and it's low effort and

[51:22] you're broke. It's like I don't you who

[51:25] are you to earn that money? Who are you

[51:27] to demand that I give that to you? That

[51:30] to me just feels like that's that main

[51:31] character energy that feels very

[51:33] dangerous where it's like I I don't know

[51:35] why you expect so much in your life from

[51:37] people you have no idea who they are.

[51:40] Oh, so this is this is interesting

[51:41] because I I used to feel very similar to

[51:44] you where I was like, you know what,

[51:45] it's like I was fine with like splitting

[51:47] bills or like maybe you just back and

[51:49] forth or but actually I've really come

[51:52] to change my mind on that

[51:54] >> and

[51:55] >> I don't want to split the bill. Let me

[51:56] just clarify that. I don't want to do I

[51:58] don't want to split it. But I also don't

[52:00] need the first date to be a $300 dinner

[52:02] for you to show me.

[52:03] >> You're not like gauging how much money

[52:04] are they willing to spend on me to prove

[52:05] that they like me or something. But I am

[52:08] very and I think because I am coming

[52:10] from a whole lineage of female

[52:11] breadwinners that I'm actually having to

[52:13] actively work my receptivity muscle. And

[52:16] so I'm I'm really like paying attention

[52:18] to that. And I do think there is some

[52:20] level of reality of like we do have

[52:22] beauty standards put on women that it is

[52:24] expensive to get your hair done and get

[52:26] facials and get pedicures and get waxing

[52:28] and buy makeup and menstrual products.

[52:31] Like those are like thousands and

[52:33] thousands of dollars potentially a month

[52:34] if you choose to engage in that game.

[52:37] that that you know cisgendered

[52:39] heterosexual men are not. And so there

[52:40] is some

[52:42] >> I do that for me though. And that's the

[52:44] thing is I do that so I feel my best,

[52:46] but I don't do it expecting you to give

[52:48] me something because I do it. And that's

[52:50] where it becomes transactional. Like if

[52:52] I'm going to go spend money on getting

[52:53] my hair and makeup done, I show up on

[52:55] this date. If it didn't work out and you

[52:57] split the bill, I'm not going to demand

[52:58] that you did. I chose to get my hair and

[53:00] makeup done. That's a choice I made. And

[53:02] that's where I mean by having autonomy.

[53:04] Now, if you've communicated that and

[53:06] you've told someone, "Hey, I'm already

[53:07] spending a ton on getting my hair and

[53:08] makeup done, so I need you to cover the

[53:10] rest." And then you they surprise you on

[53:11] the date and go, "Oh, are we splitting

[53:13] it?" And you're like, "I told you not."

[53:15] That's very different. But I find that

[53:17] we just have these unrealistic

[53:19] expectations because like here's the

[53:20] thing, these aren't your [ __ ]

[53:21] parents. This isn't mom and dad that

[53:23] have an unlimited credit card that they

[53:24] can just spend on you. And if you're

[53:26] choosing then like here's the thing, you

[53:27] don't have to do your hair and makeup.

[53:29] You can go on the date looking like

[53:30] yourself. And if they like it, great. My

[53:32] partner prefers me without makeup. He

[53:34] thinks I look prettier. I think I look

[53:35] like a troll. When I do it, I do it for

[53:37] me. I do it because I like my eyeliner

[53:40] and I like my hair done, but I know that

[53:42] this person loves me no matter what. And

[53:43] that's what I want you to look for. Do

[53:45] it for you. And if they're going to take

[53:47] you out, [ __ ] yeah. Like I don't split

[53:49] the bill. I don't do that nonsense. Like

[53:50] either you're covering it or I'm

[53:51] covering it. But like don't do that

[53:53] [ __ ] But somebody has to be figuring it

[53:56] out. And I that was a conversation I had

[53:57] with my partner because he came from a

[53:59] lineage of I take care of me, you take

[54:01] care of you. And I was like, "Oh, no,

[54:03] baby. I didn't. I came from the lineage

[54:05] of man, my father took care of

[54:06] everything financially. That's what I

[54:08] was." And I'm not saying one is right or

[54:10] wrong. There are women out there that

[54:12] would go, "No, no, I don't want you to

[54:12] pay for me." That's fine. I I I want you

[54:15] to do what feels right for you. But I

[54:16] did have a conversation with my partner

[54:18] where I said, "It does make me feel good

[54:19] when you take me out to dinner. It does

[54:21] make me feel good when I don't have to

[54:22] ask I don't have to take out my car to

[54:24] buy one thing or you we're not doing

[54:26] this like if you want to get married and

[54:27] we're building a life baby you got to be

[54:29] able to take care of me in other ways

[54:31] too but also sometimes that looks like

[54:33] non-monetary ways and it's okay for your

[54:35] partner to show up for that where if

[54:37] you're like you know what I want to go

[54:38] on this trip and your partner's like I

[54:40] don't have the money you're like fine

[54:40] I'll pay for it but maybe that means

[54:42] that they are cooking all the meals and

[54:44] they're doing things and they're

[54:45] planning the that's fine right make it

[54:47] work for both of you that's what matters

[54:49] >> yeah that feels really smart that you're

[54:51] designing like who's owning what bodega

[54:53] who's owning okay I'm getting the

[54:55] flights you're getting the travel you

[54:56] know that it's that you're designing it

[54:58] and that would just like the anxious and

[54:59] avoidant might change over time okay so

[55:02] you mentioned that your your partner is

[55:03] super emotionally available super

[55:05] embodied right that um so I'm curious

[55:08] from your experience like what is the

[55:10] difference between someone who's

[55:13] intellectually understands their

[55:14] patterns and triggers and someone who's

[55:16] actually broken them and is embodying a

[55:19] wholeness and worthiness What does it

[55:20] take to make that leap from knowing to

[55:22] embodying?

[55:24] >> Oh, if all it was was just

[55:25] intellectualization, then all of us

[55:27] would be in a different place, right?

[55:28] That's why I hate if he wanted to, he

[55:29] would. Because it's like I can want a

[55:31] lot of things, but that doesn't mean I

[55:32] have the capacity to actually achieve

[55:34] it. I want to be a millionaire and here

[55:35] I am because I have a lot of money

[55:36] trauma. That doesn't mean I don't want

[55:38] it bad enough, but I do have

[55:40] limitations. And I think people use if

[55:42] he wanted to, he would. And way too big

[55:44] of like, well, if he wanted to be

[55:45] emotionally available, he would. And

[55:46] you're like, do you understand what it

[55:48] takes to do that? This isn't just like

[55:50] if he wanted to call you, he would. It's

[55:51] like I'm not talking about small

[55:53] [ __ ] like that.

[55:54] >> Yeah.

[55:54] >> But Ryan, when we first met, he was very

[55:57] intellectualized, but he didn't realize

[55:58] that he would shut down, that he would

[56:00] go inward, that he would I would be

[56:02] sitting there and I felt like I was

[56:03] alone on an island. Now, what that

[56:05] actually looks like is he'll stop and

[56:06] say, you know, my initial reaction was I

[56:09] wanted to say no because that's the

[56:11] rigidity in me, but I actually want to

[56:13] say yes right now and I'm going to sit

[56:14] through something that's really

[56:15] uncomfortable, so let's go do this. And

[56:16] then I know I'm like, "Oh shit." Okay.

[56:19] Because it's not just words, it's

[56:20] actually progress in their actions.

[56:21] That's how you start to see that

[56:22] someone's implementing it. Maybe they

[56:24] stop and go, like for me with my anxiety

[56:26] and like the anxious attachment version,

[56:28] I have to stop and go, you know what? I

[56:30] was about to scream and say something I

[56:31] regret, but I'm going to go for a walk

[56:33] instead. Can we reconvene in 10 minutes?

[56:34] I got to come back to baseline. Instead

[56:36] of me just being like, well, that's my

[56:37] trauma and that's my trigger. And you

[56:40] just you can intellectually know, but

[56:42] what happens when you get triggered?

[56:43] What happens when you get disregulated?

[56:45] Then who do you show up as? How what's

[56:47] your window of tolerance? And that's

[56:48] where we start to see the difference. Is

[56:50] somebody that keeps giving you words

[56:51] without change behavior is manipulation?

[56:53] Are they actually doing it or are they

[56:54] just [ __ ] talking about it? Are you

[56:56] talking about your trauma all day or are

[56:58] you working through it? Because your

[56:59] triggers are not my responsibility. I

[57:01] want to understand them and I want to

[57:03] know if I'm doing something

[57:04] intentionally to hurt you. But I can't

[57:06] always be responsible for neutral

[57:08] actions or inactions that I do in a day

[57:10] that might bring you back to a place

[57:11] that I have no idea you're there. And I

[57:13] am not your therapist. this. I don't

[57:14] need to sit here and unpack your trauma

[57:16] with you for 5 hours. You do need to

[57:19] talk to somebody outside of your

[57:20] relationship to hold that space for you

[57:22] because then after a while I start to

[57:24] feel like a caregiver and a mom and a

[57:26] therapist and less like a partner.

[57:29] >> So, how do you when you find that

[57:31] couples are getting into that like I'm

[57:33] I'm going into daddy mode or I'm going

[57:34] into mommy mode versus partner, how do

[57:38] you help people out of that? And I'm

[57:39] asking because I very much identify with

[57:41] Isis who is the Egyptian goddess of

[57:43] motherhood and fertility and sex and

[57:45] magic. And I think she's a really

[57:46] important in the iconography because

[57:48] she's one of the few female deities who

[57:50] is both mother and lover. And I think

[57:52] when we separated the Madonna and the

[57:53] [ __ ] we did a real disservice to

[57:55] ourselves and our relationships. And so

[57:57] I I think she's important and I like

[57:58] that she sometimes like works through

[58:00] and with me. However, I also see the

[58:03] inherent danger in like stepping into

[58:04] mother role romantically. And so, but of

[58:07] course, nurturing and caretaking and

[58:09] loving someone's pain is part of the

[58:12] game. So, how do you one identify if

[58:14] you're too far in a parental role? And

[58:16] then how do you help people out of that

[58:17] and back into lover and romantic role?

[58:20] >> In order to identify it, you need to be

[58:22] connected with yourself. Because like

[58:24] when I would have moments where Ryan and

[58:25] I would get into a fight and it would

[58:27] turn where I'd sit there and I was like,

[58:28] I no longer feel like your partner. I

[58:29] feel like I'm now holding you. I'm like,

[58:31] "What about my needs? What about the

[58:32] fact that I was the one that was upset?

[58:34] What about the one that like I was upset

[58:35] with what you said to me and now all of

[58:37] a sudden I'm holding space for you shut

[58:39] down because as a kid you felt like I

[58:41] was yelling at you like your dad." And

[58:42] it's like, "Hey, you need to talk to

[58:44] somebody." And it was me having

[58:45] boundaries about how much of myself I

[58:47] was willing to give to my partner. And I

[58:49] think it's really important to know

[58:51] that, you know, I would look at him and

[58:52] say, "I love you, but I cannot also play

[58:54] this. I cannot also pick up this job."

[58:56] And so, if you're going to work on this,

[58:58] you need to find somebody. I will help

[58:59] you find them if you need to ask me like

[59:01] qualifications and things like that.

[59:03] Happy to do that. But it was me having

[59:05] boundaries going, I cannot continue this

[59:06] conversation because I have now

[59:08] abandoned what I was upset about and my

[59:10] needs to now take care of you. And I no

[59:12] longer feel like your partner. I feel

[59:13] like your mother and that's not a

[59:14] dynamic I want to be in anymore. But I

[59:16] had to be enough in tune with myself to

[59:18] go, I don't like this. I don't like this

[59:20] dynamic. This doesn't feel good. Why do

[59:22] am I harping on you again? Why am I

[59:23] asking you the same thing 300 times? Did

[59:26] you just give me a snippy attitude like

[59:27] you're a [ __ ] teenager? That doesn't

[59:29] work for me. And now that we've now that

[59:32] he has his therapist and I have mine and

[59:34] we're both really working these

[59:35] programs, I say together, we've had so

[59:38] much less of that because he has a safe

[59:40] space to go to. He has someone he can

[59:42] unpack this with. That doesn't mean that

[59:44] when I get triggered and I got I say, "I

[59:46] feel like I'm a kid again." He's like,

[59:47] "I know, honey. I know. I see it. And

[59:49] I'm here to let you know that you're an

[59:50] adult and I'm here for you and don't

[59:51] forget to talk to your therapist about

[59:53] that." That's sometimes, right? and it's

[59:55] like because he's not wrong or I'm like

[59:56] you're right. I don't need to sit here

[59:57] and unpack this for 4 hours with you

[59:59] when that's just it's it's heavy for the

[1:00:01] other person to receive when you're like

[1:00:02] you know this isn't sexy anymore when

[1:00:04] it's the 15th conversation about this

[1:00:06] like after a while you're like are you

[1:00:08] going to seek help about this or are you

[1:00:09] going to use me as your regulating tool

[1:00:11] because this feels like a lot. Yeah,

[1:00:13] that's really good. Like how much am I

[1:00:15] taking care of myself? What are my

[1:00:17] boundaries? What am I willing to hold

[1:00:19] here? And I think you know as a person

[1:00:21] like you know I'm a meditation teacher,

[1:00:23] I'm a healer. I'm a somatic. I'm a

[1:00:24] priestess, so it's like I get off on

[1:00:26] those things. Like I'm really good at

[1:00:27] them. My ego gets delighted when I'm

[1:00:30] like helping someone, but it's like

[1:00:32] really coming back to do does my human

[1:00:36] actually want to be in this? Is it sexy?

[1:00:38] Is it in service of the aros? Is it in

[1:00:40] service of the polarity? And also, what

[1:00:41] are my boundaries? Like how how much am

[1:00:43] I willing to help this person heal

[1:00:45] versus like

[1:00:47] >> and trust me, as somebody who like I

[1:00:48] help people in relationships and their

[1:00:50] inner child, of course, I'm like, "No,

[1:00:51] tell me more." But there does get to a

[1:00:53] point where therapy talk can sometimes

[1:00:55] be used to avoid accountability. And

[1:00:57] sometimes you got to get rid of all the

[1:00:58] verbiage of the like, so what are you

[1:01:00] feeling right now in your solar plexus?

[1:01:01] It's like, stop [ __ ] pathizing me and

[1:01:03] talk to me like a human. Hey, don't love

[1:01:05] it. What's going on? What's coming up

[1:01:07] for you? I'm here. I want to talk to

[1:01:08] you. I'd like to understand how you're

[1:01:10] feeling, but I need you to use your

[1:01:11] adult words with me. Right? Like

[1:01:13] sometimes you got to just stop trying so

[1:01:16] hard to be the the to be all of their

[1:01:18] things and understand what your needs

[1:01:20] are as well as theirs. and can you

[1:01:21] satisfy theirs and can they satisfy

[1:01:23] yours?

[1:01:26] >> Um, okay. So, why I'm so curious like

[1:01:29] why do you think your podcast is rocking

[1:01:31] so hard? Like what I mean top 0.05% of

[1:01:36] all podcasts globally and and I know I

[1:01:38] mean obviously you're brilliant.

[1:01:39] Obviously you really care, but what do

[1:01:41] you think you're on to? Like what do you

[1:01:42] think people are magnetized in the show?

[1:01:45] >> I tell you what you need to hear, not

[1:01:46] what you want to hear. Like I'm not

[1:01:47] going to sugarcoat it. I'm not going to

[1:01:48] cuddle you. I'm not going to [ __ ]

[1:01:50] you. I'm not going to sit here and say

[1:01:52] you didn't do anything wrong. It's like

[1:01:53] no, I'm going to hold you accountable

[1:01:55] and I'm going to also not I don't focus

[1:01:57] on like somebody asked me, they said,

[1:01:59] "Why do you focus so much on the self

[1:02:00] and why aren't you telling me how to

[1:02:01] diagnose the other person?" I was like,

[1:02:03] "Cuz I'm not a [ __ ] doctor and that's

[1:02:04] not my job. My job isn't to get you more

[1:02:07] disconnected from yourself. It's to

[1:02:08] bring you home to yourself." That means

[1:02:10] that family and friendships, it's not

[1:02:13] just all about dating. It's about how

[1:02:15] sugar impacts your blood sugar. It's

[1:02:17] about how your anxiety might be mold and

[1:02:19] might have nothing to do with this other

[1:02:21] person. It's about your core beliefs.

[1:02:23] It's about how you see yourself. And

[1:02:25] that's why I wrote this book because I

[1:02:27] really wanted to bring the podcast I

[1:02:29] wanted the Sabrina Zohar Show to have a

[1:02:31] to metastasize in a different way and to

[1:02:33] have something different of you can if I

[1:02:36] listen if I can be the hot mess that

[1:02:38] slept her way through Manhattan and heal

[1:02:40] through it and find an amazing partner

[1:02:41] and create a new career for myself, then

[1:02:43] you could do this too. There is no

[1:02:45] timeline. There is no endgame. There is

[1:02:47] no you have to do this by this. It's the

[1:02:49] timeline you give yourself and how much

[1:02:51] progress you're willing to give yourself

[1:02:52] before you start to attack yourself. How

[1:02:54] much compassion are you showing

[1:02:55] yourself? And how much space are you

[1:02:57] allowing yourself to be a [ __ ] human?

[1:02:59] >> Mhm. So beautiful. And I think that

[1:03:02] people really don't I mean this is very

[1:03:04] much related to manifesting, right?

[1:03:06] Where it's like people don't understand

[1:03:07] that manifestation is is 100% a game of

[1:03:11] self-actualization, self-healing. You

[1:03:13] are shifting your own consciousness

[1:03:14] which immediately shifts your reality

[1:03:16] and relationships is one of the fastest,

[1:03:18] easiest and most painful and potent

[1:03:21] mirrors for your your you know the way

[1:03:24] that you view yourself, what you're

[1:03:26] willing to tolerate, what you believe

[1:03:27] you deserve. Um so I'm curious, you

[1:03:30] know, I've taught people in the past

[1:03:32] like one one person in a relationship

[1:03:33] would learn to meditate and the other

[1:03:35] one wouldn't. And then they're doing

[1:03:36] this practice every day twice a day.

[1:03:38] They're, you know, removing stress from

[1:03:39] their nervous system. They're making

[1:03:40] space for more consciousness.

[1:03:41] Oftentimes, Zea becomes the gateway drug

[1:03:44] to other spiritual practices, medicine

[1:03:45] work, pilgrimages, and then the other

[1:03:48] partner is like, "Wait, I feel like

[1:03:50] you're leaving me. I feel like I'm

[1:03:51] getting left behind." And then the

[1:03:53] partner who's doing the spiritual work

[1:03:54] is like, "Wait, I feel like you can't

[1:03:56] catch up." Or like we're just like the

[1:03:58] it can expediate a different track in

[1:04:01] life. And I have found that if if one or

[1:04:04] the other doesn't choose to come back

[1:04:06] together, the disperate like the the

[1:04:08] desperate nature can get too deep and it

[1:04:11] or sorry too wide and then it can break

[1:04:13] the relationship. So I'm curious if you

[1:04:15] haven't and this is specifically for the

[1:04:17] Zeva audience because I know a lot of

[1:04:18] people have handled this where they're

[1:04:20] like they want their partner to come on

[1:04:22] the spiritual ride with them or they're

[1:04:24] feeling afraid that their partner is

[1:04:25] leaving them behind. What would you

[1:04:28] counsel a couple in that in that

[1:04:30] situation?

[1:04:32] >> I think at this point you have to you

[1:04:33] have to keep dating your partner to see

[1:04:35] if who you're becoming works with who

[1:04:36] they're becoming because who you met who

[1:04:38] you were when you met is I hope not who

[1:04:40] you're going to be as you keep evolving

[1:04:42] this relationship. I am significantly

[1:04:44] more woo. I am the one that like I love

[1:04:47] my energy healers and my readers and my

[1:04:49] this and I love doing my ketamine

[1:04:50] treatments. Like I love all of that.

[1:04:52] Ryan's not so much into that. He was

[1:04:54] just diagnosed as autism. So like he's

[1:04:55] very by the book and this is what it is

[1:04:57] and this is how it like he's a lot more

[1:04:58] rigid. Now what that looks like is me

[1:05:01] going to him and saying I feel like I'm

[1:05:03] outgrowing this and I feel like I'm now

[1:05:05] on this journey and either you figure

[1:05:07] out a way to go and continue onto yours.

[1:05:08] So you continue to grow or this is the

[1:05:11] impass because I can't keep dragging you

[1:05:12] back on the path and bringing you

[1:05:14] forward if you're not going to get up

[1:05:15] and start walking with me. And it's okay

[1:05:17] to have that hard conversation. That

[1:05:18] doesn't mean they have to do the same

[1:05:19] things.

[1:05:20] >> But what if he's like I don't like your

[1:05:21] path. I like my path. Why don't you get

[1:05:23] on my path?

[1:05:24] >> Then that I would start to look and say,

[1:05:25] "Are we compatible any longer?" Because

[1:05:27] are our paths even aligning? I don't

[1:05:29] need my partner like Ryan doesn't

[1:05:31] believe in astrology. I don't need him

[1:05:32] to. I don't need him to believe in

[1:05:33] astrology for me to believe in it. For

[1:05:35] me, when I say Taurus, you see him roll

[1:05:37] his eyes and like you're such a Gemini.

[1:05:39] And like it's fine, right? You're

[1:05:40] allowed to have that. But he also like

[1:05:43] he meditates every night. I actually

[1:05:45] don't meditate as often, right? It

[1:05:46] doesn't mean that everybody has

[1:05:49] >> it doesn't mean that everyone has to do

[1:05:51] the same things. But what it is is this

[1:05:53] relationship a container for you to

[1:05:55] become more yourself.

[1:05:57] >> And maybe by you doing all the ZVA

[1:05:59] practices and all this, you now feel

[1:06:01] like you can connect with your partner

[1:06:02] on a deeper level because you don't have

[1:06:04] the shame and you don't have the the

[1:06:06] blame and you don't have the guilt and

[1:06:07] you don't have the core beliefs. Maybe

[1:06:10] that person doesn't need the same things

[1:06:11] as you, but are they still growing? What

[1:06:14] I'm looking for is growthminded and

[1:06:16] somebody that wants to constantly

[1:06:17] elevate on their path. And so like Ryan,

[1:06:20] Ryan will take mushrooms and go on a

[1:06:21] hike. He'll go on a 10-mi hike for four

[1:06:24] hours. That's his way of of doing his

[1:06:26] work. Whereas mine might be going to a

[1:06:28] raiki center and having all the

[1:06:29] meditation, doing all the things. But

[1:06:31] you know what matters is that we both

[1:06:32] come back together more open and more

[1:06:34] receptive towards each other and who

[1:06:36] we're both becoming. And it's okay if

[1:06:37] who you're becoming isn't who the other

[1:06:39] person likes. That's part of either

[1:06:41] you're growing together or you're

[1:06:42] growing apart. But we don't need it to

[1:06:44] match. You don't need your partner to do

[1:06:46] the meditations with you and to do all

[1:06:47] of these things if they don't resonate

[1:06:48] with it. But do you still have things in

[1:06:50] common? Are you still able to connect in

[1:06:52] different ways? That's what I want to

[1:06:54] see.

[1:06:54] >> Mhm. That's beautiful. Is this

[1:06:56] relationship still a container where I

[1:06:58] can be myself regardless of what

[1:07:00] practices they're doing? That's really

[1:07:01] beautiful. U Okay. Is there anything

[1:07:04] that's coming up in the zeitgeist or in

[1:07:05] your work or maybe even the book where

[1:07:07] you're like, "This feels cutting edge.

[1:07:08] This feels like the thin edge of the

[1:07:10] wedge. the world might not be quite

[1:07:12] ready for it, but why isn't everyone

[1:07:14] doing this? Or why isn't everyone aware

[1:07:16] of this?

[1:07:17] >> I just think right now we're in a time

[1:07:19] where the thought of discomfort is what

[1:07:21] anybody will do to avoid. And that's the

[1:07:22] problem because discomfort is your one

[1:07:24] path to growth. And so I get it all the

[1:07:26] time of like, well, that sounds hard.

[1:07:28] It's like, choose your [ __ ] hard. Not

[1:07:29] if you're trying to live an easy life. I

[1:07:31] don't want to live that life. That's not

[1:07:33] one for me because easy just means that

[1:07:35] I'm I'm staying the same and I don't

[1:07:37] want to always be comfortable. I don't

[1:07:38] want to constantly perpetually be

[1:07:40] struggling, but I think that between AI

[1:07:43] being immediate, we expect humans to be

[1:07:44] the same way. We've programmed our brain

[1:07:46] that everything is at the tip of our

[1:07:47] finger. So why are you taking 5 minutes

[1:07:49] to even think about this? Amazon has

[1:07:51] created this. Well, no, I want it now. I

[1:07:53] want reviews. I want it out my door and

[1:07:54] if I don't like it, take it and be gone

[1:07:55] and I don't have to worry about it. But

[1:07:57] that's not how humans work. And I wish

[1:07:59] more people were open and receptive to

[1:08:01] being uncomfortable and allowing

[1:08:03] themselves to grow through it versus

[1:08:05] trying everything to avoid. Rejection's

[1:08:07] gonna happen. It's gonna suck. Deal with

[1:08:09] it. You get rejected a thousand times a

[1:08:11] day. A thousand times. But people only

[1:08:13] see the one as like, "Oh, well, but the

[1:08:15] guy I liked or the girl I liked rejected

[1:08:16] me." But you don't look to say you got

[1:08:18] four job applications that were denied

[1:08:20] by AI before a human even saw you.

[1:08:22] That's a rejection. Your friend said no

[1:08:24] to you. The person at the store said no.

[1:08:26] Rejection is happening all the time. Get

[1:08:28] very comfortable being uncomfortable and

[1:08:30] then you will see your life change.

[1:08:32] >> Get comfortable being uncomfortable.

[1:08:34] Choose your hard. So true, right?

[1:08:37] Because we're either creating or we're

[1:08:38] destroying. Like we're either expanding

[1:08:40] or we are contracting. There is no in

[1:08:43] between. So tell us about the book.

[1:08:46] Where can people get it? Why am I like

[1:08:48] this? Like what what are you most

[1:08:49] excited about? What do we need to know

[1:08:51] about the book?

[1:08:52] >> The book is going to give you everything

[1:08:54] you need to break your [ __ ]

[1:08:56] blueprint to get the life that you want.

[1:08:58] But the book alone is not what does it.

[1:08:59] It's what you do with it. And that's the

[1:09:01] biggest thing. Like I'm not going to lie

[1:09:02] and be like, "Oh yeah, when you read it

[1:09:03] to cover to cover, that's it. You're a

[1:09:04] different person." It's what you do with

[1:09:06] it. Every tool is in there. Everything

[1:09:08] you need is in there. You get to learn

[1:09:10] more about My Hot Mess Express. How Yes,

[1:09:12] you're right. I'm not a therapist. Never

[1:09:13] claimed to be. I curse a ton. If you

[1:09:15] don't like it, that's probably not your

[1:09:16] book. I am not trying to be for

[1:09:18] everybody. But I am trying to welcome

[1:09:20] the people that I am for. And so, I want

[1:09:22] people to walk away realizing you're not

[1:09:24] broken. There's nothing to fix. But you

[1:09:25] just got to heal through some [ __ ] And

[1:09:26] this is your opportunity to. And you can

[1:09:28] get it worldwide. Anywhere books are

[1:09:30] found. Why am I like this? You can go

[1:09:32] online, Target, Barnes & Noble. It

[1:09:34] doesn't really matter, Amazon or you go

[1:09:36] to your local indie bookstore if you

[1:09:37] want to support a local. I just matter.

[1:09:39] What matters to me is that you're

[1:09:40] willing to read it. And I am so grateful

[1:09:42] and honored that people are going to sit

[1:09:43] with me and take the time to get to know

[1:09:45] me a little bit better, too.

[1:09:47] >> Bravo. I know how intense it is to birth

[1:09:49] a book. And so really celebrating the

[1:09:51] dedication, the love, the years of

[1:09:54] mastery and expert um expertise that

[1:09:57] you've poured into this. So my friend

[1:09:59] Dave Aspbury, he's like, you know,

[1:10:00] authors will spend 10,000 hours pouring

[1:10:02] themselves into a book that you can read

[1:10:04] in two hours. And so it's like receive

[1:10:06] the gift of that, right? Receive the

[1:10:08] gift of your thousands and thousands of

[1:10:09] hours of practical experience that you

[1:10:12] can ingest um in a few hours. And we'll

[1:10:14] put a link to the book in the show

[1:10:16] notes. So Sabrina, what a delight to

[1:10:18] know you. Thank you for helping me.

[1:10:19] Thank you for your quick wick, your

[1:10:21] intellect, your honesty, for your

[1:10:23] cursing. I love it. And sweet friends,

[1:10:25] if you have enjoyed this episode, here

[1:10:27] is my desire. I desire that you

[1:10:29] screenshot this, that you post it, tag

[1:10:31] us on social media, tell us what you

[1:10:33] learned, what were your ahas, what tools

[1:10:36] are you going to implement to come home

[1:10:38] to yourself to decide what are your

[1:10:39] standards, to decide if your

[1:10:41] relationship is a container where you

[1:10:42] can be yourself. I personally have

[1:10:44] learned so much from this episode. So,

[1:10:45] if you feel like someone could use this

[1:10:47] medicine, share it with them. And I love

[1:10:49] you and we will see you next week on Why

[1:10:51] Isn't Everyone Doing This?

[1:11:03] Yeah.

Ziva Meditation
ArtistZiva Meditation

Former Broadway performer turned meditation teacher, Emily Fletcher founded Ziva Meditation to blend ancient wisdom with modern science through the Ziva Technique of mindfulness, m…

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Attachment-stylesSalience-networkNervous-system-datingPeople-pleasingRelationship-patterns

Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

Sabrina Zohar argues that we often know what we want on paper but not what we need, and that a triggered nervous system favors the familiar because it feels safer than the unknown. She uses the idea of the salience network to explain how the brain keeps scanning for patterns it already expects. Building capacity to hold healthy love is part of the fix.
In the episode, Zohar describes capacity as how much you can hold while staying in touch with your authentic self, rather than the version of yourself you were taught to be. She says it is built gradually through small practices, such as making honest small requests, rather than through sweeping resolutions.
No, according to Sabrina Zohar, 'avoidant' does not mean 'doesn't care.' She frames attachment styles with compassion and notes that they can change over time, so the question becomes how a person's behavior meets your needs now.
Sabrina Zohar suggests asking 'How old do I feel?' to identify which version of yourself is reacting, and 'Who taught me this?' to trace the belief to its source. These questions also help you tell an old wound apart from a genuine red flag about another person.
Zohar recommends starting with very small requests. Her example is inserting the word 'actually' before a request, such as sending back a cold coffee, instead of silently accepting it. The goal is to rehearse stating a need until larger conversations feel less threatening.
The episode lists 'why rejection closes the loop while ghosting keeps it open' as a core idea. The framing is that a clear no gives your mind an ending to process, while silence leaves the story unresolved and keeps your nervous system scanning for answers.
No. The episode description states that Sabrina Zohar is a coach, not a therapist. For deep or persistent wounds, the episode itself points toward a licensed clinician rather than coaching alone.

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