Transcript
[0:00] Good.
[0:03] >> [sighs]
[0:09] [sighs]
[0:37] >> Oh.
[0:39] Good. Welcome to you all. Welcome also
[0:41] to all of you attending online. Uh we
[0:44] have lots of great
[0:46] questions um both uh email and uh our
[0:51] local students and our chat. Let me to
[0:55] do something different. Let me start
[0:58] with uh question coming in on the live
[1:00] chat. Subhashini, who lives in Mumbai,
[1:04] "Why is it so difficult to reduce
[1:07] attachment and identification
[1:10] in life?" Well, unless you're
[1:12] enlightened,
[1:14] you are definitely going to experience
[1:17] identification,
[1:19] attachment, and the suffering
[1:22] that comes along with the package, so to
[1:24] speak.
[1:25] Um if you ask why,
[1:28] uh and why doesn't it just go away, Tell
[1:30] me. How many
[1:31] For how long have you been identified
[1:33] with your body and mind and family and
[1:37] parents and everything?
[1:39] How many years? You don't know?
[1:41] >> [laughter]
[1:42] >> And for how many years have you been
[1:45] intensely engaged in Atma Vichara?
[1:50] >> A couple of years.
[1:52] >> So, which will have more effect? Now, it
[1:56] doesn't mean that it's it's impossible,
[2:00] but it does show that only with intense
[2:04] Atma Vichara, self-enquiry, will you
[2:06] ever stand a chance of overcoming that
[2:10] identification and attachment.
[2:13] I can tell you from my own experience it
[2:15] comes,
[2:17] but it doesn't come quickly.
[2:20] And it certainly doesn't come up in the
[2:22] up as you would say. It takes lots of of
[2:26] self-enquiry to bring that about. Okay.
[2:29] This question from uh Vidya Sagar who
[2:32] lives in Vancouver.
[2:34] Last week we had three questions in a
[2:36] row from students in Vancouver.
[2:39] So [snorts]
[2:40] uh
[2:41] So we continue.
[2:43] Um
[2:46] I finished listening to your lecture on
[2:49] ego death. There's a video on the ego
[2:52] death if that subject uh
[2:54] uh is appealing to you. Uh
[2:57] do babies have ego?
[3:00] If they don't, where does it come from
[3:03] and how does it sprout? First of all,
[3:05] let's understand ego
[3:08] is a tra- is a loose translation of a
[3:11] Sanskrit term Ahankara,
[3:13] which we're using in in Advaita Vedanta
[3:16] as a technical verb.
[3:18] As a technical word, sorry. Not in Hindi
[3:21] may you know, it's pride and has that
[3:24] general meaning. We use it very
[3:26] specifically as your sense of being an
[3:28] individual being. That that feeling that
[3:31] I
[3:32] Excuse me. The feeling that I am me,
[3:35] I am an individual being. And then
[3:39] identified with the body, mind, etc.
[3:41] etc.
[3:43] Do babies have that ego? Doesn't look
[3:47] like it.
[3:49] In fact,
[3:50] it what it looks like is that baby can't
[3:53] tell it's tell the difference between
[3:55] itself and mother.
[3:57] A rat, you know, where where does a baby
[4:00] end and where does mother begin? There's
[4:03] not any differentiation.
[4:05] Um there's a whole field of
[4:06] developmental psychology
[4:09] that shows certain milestones that
[4:12] babies and children go through as they
[4:15] grow up. And I think attaining that
[4:18] sense of individuality,
[4:20] that sense of differentiation,
[4:24] is perhaps one of the very first
[4:25] milestones in the natural
[4:28] uh development of a baby.
[4:31] Next question comes from Stefano,
[4:35] who is
[4:36] Italian, living in Spain. Good.
[4:40] >> [snorts]
[4:40] >> Um let me give you some backstory and
[4:43] then I'll just a little bit of this
[4:44] question. Stefano, I know from our
[4:47] earlier
[4:48] uh communications, is a yoga
[4:51] teacher.
[4:52] And to be a Western yoga teacher,
[4:56] uh especially, well, you know, just in
[4:58] general, to be a Western yoga teacher
[5:01] means
[5:03] Please this sounds sarcastic, but I
[5:06] don't mean it sarcastically. To be a
[5:08] Western yoga teacher means that 80%
[5:13] of your students are young women who
[5:15] want to look and feel good.
[5:19] And I don't mean that negatively. In
[5:22] fact, I think it's great. Better that
[5:24] they go to yoga
[5:26] >> [laughter]
[5:26] >> to look and feel great than than a gym,
[5:29] cuz I think there's an additional
[5:30] benefit to to yoga practices.
[5:34] But that leads Stefano to some conflict.
[5:38] He says, "Today, much of what is
[5:40] promoted as yoga seems focused only on
[5:43] the most superficial aspect of asana
[5:47] practice." And I think that's an
[5:49] accurate appraisal. Christofano teaches
[5:52] yoga, so he knows much better than me.
[5:55] Um the aim of often appears to be
[5:57] physical perfection, aesthetics, or
[5:59] performance, almost as if
[6:02] uh yoga were a fitness competition. You
[6:05] know, there is actually a yoga
[6:06] competition.
[6:09] >> [laughter]
[6:10] >> Can you imagine?
[6:12] A bunch of yogis getting on a stage
[6:16] and competing with each other to see who
[6:18] can do each asana the best.
[6:20] It's mind-boggling. Okay.
[6:22] Um since Now, here's his question. Since
[6:26] yoga is both a sincere part of my life
[6:30] This is a kind of yoga. In fact, it's
[6:32] often called Jnana Yoga, uh Advaita
[6:34] Vedanta.
[6:36] Since [snorts] yoga is both a sincere
[6:37] part of my life and my profession
[6:41] He makes a living teaching yoga.
[6:43] I sometimes wonder what my
[6:45] responsibility
[6:46] should be. Should I actively respond to
[6:49] the misinformation? Should I promote
[6:51] traditional yoga more openly and
[6:54] challenge the ideas that misrepresented
[6:57] teachings?
[6:58] >> [snorts]
[6:58] >> Is it Or is it wiser to remain focused
[7:01] on my own path, continue studying and
[7:03] teaching sincerely?
[7:04] >> [snorts]
[7:05] >> Uh
[7:07] Okay.
[7:08] So,
[7:09] that's an interesting dilemma. And I
[7:11] think unique to uh someone who is both a
[7:16] uh modern yoga teacher and a very
[7:18] sincere uh follower of of Advaita
[7:22] Vedanta.
[7:24] Um
[7:25] I would suggest a pragmatic approach.
[7:29] Um to
[7:31] there
[7:32] In In American English, I'm pretty sure
[7:34] Stefano can follow. To nuke your career
[7:38] is probably not going to help you in
[7:41] your practice of Advaita Vedanta, right?
[7:45] So,
[7:47] you do, on the other hand, I would say
[7:50] that there is a responsibility
[7:53] every yoga teacher has
[7:56] to
[7:58] at least put the practice of yoga asana
[8:02] practice in particular, put it in the
[8:03] right context,
[8:05] which means just to gently remind your
[8:09] students
[8:10] that these teachings come from the
[8:12] ancient rishis
[8:14] and that the ultimate purpose of of
[8:17] asana practice is to prepare you for
[8:19] meditation,
[8:21] which is part of a distinctly spiritual
[8:24] path and not a matter of physical
[8:27] perfection. To tell your students that
[8:31] gently and in appropriate ways and times
[8:35] would not nuke your yoga
[8:38] studio.
[8:40] At the same time, it would, I think,
[8:42] fulfill a responsibility that that yoga
[8:44] student students yoga teachers do bear,
[8:48] and I'm really glad that Stefano is
[8:50] alert to that
[8:53] that issue.
[8:55] Question from Thakur, who lives in
[8:58] Pondicherry.
[9:01] Not really a question. Um
[9:05] Of of of I think a very
[9:09] significant statement.
[9:11] Uh [snorts] Thakur says, "It's not easy
[9:13] for me to get detached from the sense of
[9:16] body and mind that's imposed by nature,
[9:19] as we've said in the very first uh
[9:23] question. Um and it's hard to become
[9:25] detached and become one with our true
[9:29] nature." I'll come back
[9:34] "My state is like a donkey carrying the
[9:37] load of sandalwood. That's the
[9:39] traditional metaphor. You find this in
[9:41] the scriptures and poems of a donkey is
[9:44] carrying a valuable load on its back.
[9:48] It's like sandalwood.
[9:50] But the
[9:52] the donkey only feels its weight and
[9:56] cannot appreciate its value. Sandalwood
[10:00] being a very valuable kind of wood. And
[10:03] in the same way
[10:05] we presume that Ram Thakur is feeling
[10:06] the weight of the teachings of Advaita
[10:09] Vedanta. They are heavy, so to speak,
[10:12] and he is not appreciating the value of
[10:17] of those heavy teachings. And and
[10:19] definitely I get it.
[10:21] Um one thing I'd like to circle back on
[10:24] here. He says, "It's hard to get
[10:25] detached and become one with our true
[10:29] nature."
[10:30] The word become stands out [snorts] in
[10:33] my mind
[10:35] because
[10:37] you already are
[10:39] your true nature.
[10:41] You already are Satchidananda Atma. To
[10:45] use my guru's words, you already are
[10:48] what you want to become.
[10:50] You already possess what you want to
[10:52] gain.
[10:54] So,
[10:55] this process of detachment
[10:59] and gaining enlightenment
[11:01] is
[11:03] focused not on struggling against
[11:08] attachments.
[11:10] To struggle against attachments
[11:14] is
[11:15] a very worldly activity. In fact, any
[11:17] worldly struggle
[11:19] struggle I think of struggling I think
[11:22] of a metaphor of wrestling.
[11:24] If you think of two wrestlers having a
[11:26] match,
[11:28] they hold on to each other.
[11:30] And as long as they continue to fight,
[11:33] they continue to hold on to each other
[11:36] and the fight persists.
[11:39] So, the struggle of the wrestler stops
[11:43] when they let go
[11:45] of the other person and when they stop
[11:49] fighting.
[11:50] And
[11:51] the message here for life is
[11:56] to the to
[11:58] to think of struggling with detachment
[12:01] or trying to get attached, the very
[12:04] effort to try
[12:07] is perhaps a misplaced effort.
[12:11] For example, if you are trying to
[12:16] Let me try to give a more concrete
[12:18] example.
[12:19] Some people feel like they have to
[12:22] fix their lives
[12:25] to make their lives completely free from
[12:28] conflict
[12:30] so that they can devote themselves to
[12:32] spiritual growth.
[12:34] Ah.
[12:36] One of our local students said, "Yeah."
[12:38] >> [laughter]
[12:39] >> And not just you. Very common. So, very
[12:42] common. Yeah.
[12:44] I also had that. Sure.
[12:46] Um you have to fix your life
[12:49] so that it is conflict-free
[12:53] so that you can deeply pursue spiritual
[12:56] growth.
[12:58] When is your life going to be
[12:59] conflict-free?
[13:04] Only when you finally rest in peace.
[13:07] >> [laughter]
[13:09] >> Then I guarantee you your conflicts are
[13:11] over at that point
[13:13] and not a moment before.
[13:18] So, efforts to create a conflict-free
[13:22] life
[13:24] are to some extent misplaced. I said to
[13:26] some some extent because we need to have
[13:29] a reasonable
[13:31] reasonably conflict-free life.
[13:34] But to to be overly focused on fixing up
[13:39] your lifestyle is self-defeating.
[13:43] So,
[13:44] my advice for talker and anyone else is
[13:49] do whatever needs to be done
[13:53] to resolve the problems in your life,
[13:56] but make
[13:57] atma vichara, self-inquiry,
[14:00] the main focus of your life. Turns out
[14:04] that if you focus on atma vichara,
[14:08] the difficulties you encounter in life
[14:11] seem to fade away for very interesting
[14:14] reason.
[14:15] The situations don't change. The people
[14:18] who used to be obnoxious
[14:21] continue to be just as obnoxious or even
[14:23] more so,
[14:26] some people become more obnoxious with
[14:28] time,
[14:30] but you find yourself less affected by
[14:33] all that.
[14:34] So, make the emphasis not
[14:37] trying to solve all the worldly
[14:38] conflicts, but let the uh
[14:41] uh main effort be to um
[14:44] uh
[14:44] uh atma vichara, self-inquiry.
[14:47] Let me see.
[14:51] Uh
[14:55] Uh
[14:57] Uh
[15:00] This is uh
[15:06] This is Arthur from Armenia.
[15:10] He's uh I think he's a uh in the uh
[15:13] 6-month course, which is just now
[15:14] concluding.
[15:16] Um Swamiji, I was wondering if you could
[15:19] speak about a a bit about Shankara's
[15:21] devotional
[15:23] bhakti side.
[15:27] Um
[15:32] I'm pausing
[15:34] because the
[15:37] the texts that survived today
[15:40] that were definitely written by
[15:42] Shankaracharya, by Adi Shankaracharya,
[15:45] by that one person. Those texts don't
[15:49] deal with bhakti.
[15:51] The texts that do deal with bhakti are
[15:54] written probably not by Adi Shankara
[15:57] himself, but by later followers in his
[16:02] tradition, disciples of disciples of
[16:05] disciples. That's the way that the way
[16:07] our the scriptural tradition works is
[16:10] that um
[16:12] many texts are attributed to Shankara,
[16:15] like the Bhaja Govindam, which which is
[16:19] so popular and so wonderful.
[16:21] I love Bhaja Govindam. It's a wonderful
[16:24] text.
[16:26] But it's not Shankara's work. It doesn't
[16:28] bear It's not his language. It's not his
[16:31] style at all, you know, it's all uh you
[16:34] know If you
[16:36] remember the context, Shankaracharya
[16:39] was a sannyasi
[16:41] and his students were sannyasis
[16:44] and they were all really, really
[16:47] advanced.
[16:49] So
[16:50] for the historical Shankaracharya and
[16:54] his disciples
[16:56] bhakti was not a big deal. They didn't
[17:00] need to focus on it.
[17:03] And this is how
[17:05] based on studying Shankaracharya for 30,
[17:09] 40 years, this is what it looks like to
[17:12] me.
[17:13] On the other hand, thank goodness that
[17:16] in his tradition, we have a rich uh
[17:21] literature
[17:22] devoted to bhakti because we need it.
[17:27] Shankaracharya himself may not have
[17:30] needed it.
[17:31] We certainly do.
[17:34] So,
[17:35] um
[17:37] I guess we'll we'll we'll leave it at
[17:38] that point. A question here from
[17:42] Venkatesh, one of our local
[17:44] students here in New Jersey.
[17:46] Um
[17:49] how to validate this? I know I am the
[17:53] hypothesis, he says. I am the knower of
[17:56] my thoughts directly
[17:59] without the use of any pramana, without
[18:03] the use of your mind. I know the
[18:06] contents of my mind directly.
[18:10] But, he says, I feel
[18:13] like my mind is used to know anything.
[18:19] How can And
[18:21] it's a little
[18:23] it's a little technical and a little
[18:24] hard to follow, so let me try to
[18:27] paraphrase Venkatesh's question.
[18:31] In order to understand your true nature
[18:34] as an awareful observer
[18:37] who is completely independent of your
[18:40] mind,
[18:42] it's crucial
[18:43] to
[18:45] understand
[18:46] that
[18:49] you know the world
[18:53] through your mind and senses, right?
[18:57] Let's pause there for just a moment. The
[18:59] world outside is known to you by means
[19:03] of your mind and senses. So, your five
[19:06] senses and your mind are pramanas,
[19:09] means of knowledge.
[19:12] So, you have sight, hearing, taste,
[19:13] touch, and smell. These five and number
[19:16] six, there's a sixth sense called
[19:20] antahkarana,
[19:22] the inner instrument or a five external
[19:24] instruments, one inner instrument. All
[19:27] of these can be called pramanas, means
[19:30] of knowledge.
[19:31] So, now the question is, since the world
[19:34] is known
[19:37] through the agency or instruments of
[19:41] your mind and senses,
[19:45] it's natural to assume
[19:48] that your mind itself is known
[19:51] using some other instrument.
[19:53] If I use sight to see you,
[19:57] I must be using some kind of inner sight
[20:01] to know my mind.
[20:05] This is the This is the contention.
[20:08] If I use my powers of of seeing and
[20:11] thinking to know you and understand you,
[20:14] I must be using some other kind of
[20:16] powers to know what's happening in my
[20:19] mind.
[20:21] And it's it's
[20:24] It says this seems contrary and I'll
[20:26] paraphrase, seems contrary to my
[20:29] experience.
[20:33] Is that really contrary to your
[20:34] experience?
[20:37] So, look at in terms of your experience.
[20:40] If you close your eyes and open your
[20:42] eyes,
[20:43] you have control over that instrument.
[20:46] You can turn it on and off.
[20:48] Similarly, you can kind of turn your
[20:50] your your mind on and off or you can
[20:53] certainly direct it. You can choose to
[20:55] look away from me.
[20:58] So, you can control
[21:01] your mind. You can control your eyes.
[21:06] Can you control your ability
[21:09] to be aware of your mind?
[21:14] Isn't Isn't that interesting?
[21:18] Can you turn your attention away from
[21:20] your mind? Oh, I In fact, a thought
[21:22] comes, you want to ignore it.
[21:25] You try to ignore that thought, what
[21:26] happens?
[21:28] >> [laughter]
[21:29] >> You
[21:30] You end up good That's a wrestling
[21:33] metaphor again. That's exactly what
[21:35] happens.
[21:37] So, interestingly enough, you can
[21:39] control your use of your five senses.
[21:44] You can control to some extent your use
[21:46] of your mind,
[21:49] but
[21:51] that by which
[21:54] the activities of your mind are known
[21:57] cannot be controlled.
[22:00] Because it's not an instrument. It's not
[22:04] a pramada. It's not something you use or
[22:08] wield like you wield your mind, you
[22:11] wield your five senses. This is you as
[22:15] sakshi chaitanya, as an awareful witness
[22:19] consciousness, simply shines, simply
[22:23] reveals.
[22:24] I think the the message here though is
[22:27] how easy it is to misinterpret our
[22:30] experience or make wrong assumptions
[22:33] about our experience. Look at the
[22:34] assumption. I use my eyes to see the
[22:37] world.
[22:38] I use my mind to understand things.
[22:42] Therefore, I must be using some other
[22:44] means to know what's happening in my
[22:47] mind.
[22:48] Is that experience or an assumption?
[22:52] It's not experience. It's not based on
[22:54] experience. It simply is a wrong
[22:57] assumption. So, then we have to test
[23:00] experience. That's what I led you
[23:01] through just a moment ago is we are
[23:04] doing an experiential test. So, we test
[23:07] can do I control my eyeballs? Yeah.
[23:10] Can I control my mind? Yeah.
[23:13] Can I control my ability to know what's
[23:16] happening in my mind?
[23:19] No.
[23:20] So, we're exploring our experience and
[23:24] understanding that experience because we
[23:27] often misinterpret
[23:30] our experience. Very common problem.
[23:34] Okay. Yes, I mentioned Vancouver before.
[23:37] Here's another Vancouverite.
[23:41] Uh Ahmed was a medical doctor who lives
[23:44] in Vancouver. He asks um in a previous
[23:47] satsang we talked about evil
[23:50] and the problem of around murderous
[23:53] psychopaths such as Hitler.
[23:57] How do we solve the problem of account-
[24:00] This very sub- interest I like this an
[24:02] interesting problem. I I like this.
[24:05] How do we solve the problem if of
[24:08] accountability
[24:11] if we ascribe their evil deeds to mental
[24:15] illness
[24:17] such as psychopathy
[24:19] that they were born with and it's no
[24:21] fault of their own. How do we
[24:24] How do we deal with accountability?
[24:30] Accountability, interesting.
[24:35] Is a psychopath
[24:38] accountable
[24:41] for their
[24:42] behavior?
[24:44] I I believe the definition of a
[24:47] psychopath is one who's not able to
[24:50] control their behavior. They're wired
[24:53] like that probably from birth. They're
[24:56] wired incorrectly. Something went wrong
[24:59] and during development they emerge with
[25:02] some kind of
[25:04] uh
[25:05] a terrible
[25:06] uh mental illness. So, when a psychopath
[25:11] commits an act of a dharma
[25:16] is he or she morally responsible?
[25:23] Very complicated, right?
[25:25] So, just to lead up to that question,
[25:27] take a child
[25:28] a two-year-old
[25:30] playing with matches
[25:32] burns down the house.
[25:36] Is the two-year-old morally responsible
[25:40] for that act of destruction?
[25:43] And we'd say no.
[25:45] Ch- children don't know better.
[25:49] Wouldn't that argument apply to the
[25:50] psychopath as well?
[25:55] Uh different, absolutely different, but
[25:57] the the argument I think would hold up.
[26:00] You won't hold the child responsible
[26:04] because that's the way child's children
[26:07] behave.
[26:08] In the same way, why hold a psychopath
[26:11] responsible? That's the way they behave.
[26:14] In fact, if you expect a child to behave
[26:17] under all circumstances,
[26:19] you're the one with the problem.
[26:21] You're not keeping your eye on the
[26:23] child.
[26:25] Right?
[26:27] Who's responsible to watch over the
[26:29] child?
[26:33] So
[26:35] who's responsible to keep out keep an
[26:38] eye out for psychopaths?
[26:43] We are.
[26:45] It is our responsibility
[26:48] as individuals, as nations, as cultures,
[26:52] as people, it is our responsibility
[26:56] to see, to identify who is capable of
[27:01] doing harmful deeds,
[27:03] and to do our best to prevent that
[27:07] person
[27:08] from causing
[27:10] those harmful deeds.
[27:13] Turns out that we don't always do a good
[27:15] job. Just as parents cannot possibly
[27:18] keep an eye on their children 24/7,
[27:21] so children can be naughty and can do
[27:24] things, and it's no matter how careful
[27:27] parents are. In the same way, no matter
[27:29] how
[27:31] dharmic a society is, um there's it's
[27:36] impossible to prevent
[27:38] all mentally ill people from causing
[27:42] harm. It happens. We can do our best,
[27:45] but still it it happens. Let us just
[27:48] extend this a little bit. With this in
[27:51] mind,
[27:53] dealing with going to uh Ahmed's uh
[27:56] question about accountability,
[27:59] with this in mind,
[28:02] what would you say about
[28:05] ascribing the death penalty
[28:08] to a psychopath who commits murder?
[28:14] Does it
[28:15] make sense?
[28:19] It's just like should the parent punish
[28:23] the 2-year-old for burning down the
[28:25] house?
[28:28] And of course, the punishment should be
[28:30] appropriate for the crime.
[28:33] Burning down a house is a big deal.
[28:35] So, this child should be punished
[28:37] severely for years.
[28:40] Of course not.
[28:42] Murder is terrible.
[28:44] So, therefore, death penalty,
[28:47] but look at the problem. The problem is
[28:50] with our concept of accountability.
[28:54] So,
[28:55] first of all, from the standpoint of the
[28:58] doctrine of karma, there is one level of
[29:01] accountability that's built in.
[29:05] So, a person who willfully does a
[29:09] harmful deed will suffer the
[29:12] consequences
[29:14] of that harmful deed at some point in
[29:16] the future. We don't need to stand
[29:19] around and ensure it's done.
[29:22] You know, we don't have to
[29:25] to hold the person accountable at a
[29:27] moral level. At a societal level,
[29:29] absolutely. But I'm just saying, the law
[29:32] of karma will ensure
[29:35] that the person who commits a harmful
[29:37] deed will suffer the consequences of
[29:41] that harmful deed at some point in the
[29:44] future.
[29:45] Now, the 2-year-old who burnt down the
[29:48] house did not do so willfully.
[29:51] And a psychopath who kills someone, I
[29:54] presume, does not do it willfully, at
[29:57] least not in our usual idea of
[30:00] reasonable will. So, we don't
[30:05] Anyway,
[30:06] it's another time, branching off to
[30:08] another topic, but just let me finish
[30:10] this up by observing that the penal
[30:14] system in this country and around the
[30:16] world
[30:18] seems highly flawed.
[30:21] Every society has has a primary
[30:26] responsibility
[30:27] to protect its citizens.
[30:32] But at some point, the penal system got
[30:35] focused not on protecting citizens, but
[30:39] on punishing wrongdoers.
[30:42] And to me, that's a wrong orientation.
[30:47] We don't need to be the punishers of
[30:49] wrongdoers. We are not the ones to meet
[30:53] out the uh the consequences of bad bad
[30:58] deeds. As I said, doctrine of karma, I
[31:00] think ensures that.
[31:02] So, to me
[31:04] to use the penal system to punish people
[31:08] is misdirected. To use the penal system
[31:11] to protect people
[31:13] is absolutely important.
[31:16] And to use the penal system to reform
[31:19] people is even better.
[31:21] But it's also If you look into it, it's
[31:24] difficult, you know. It's not it's not
[31:26] an easy topic. Anyway, let me not go
[31:29] further here. Let me take another
[31:31] question here.
[31:32] Um
[31:34] >> [clears throat]
[31:38] >> Uh
[31:43] But it's all an illusion, isn't it?
[31:47] We're all part of this universal
[31:49] consciousness, the Brahman. So, those
[31:52] who commit the crimes, and those of us
[31:54] who observe the crimes, and those of us
[31:56] who punish the crime
[31:58] I think it's that's where the comment
[32:00] left uh
[32:01] a question it just came up
[32:04] with regard to this
[32:06] uh discussion. To say, "Oh, it's all
[32:09] illusion." is in my mind, it is a
[32:13] corruption of what the teachings of
[32:16] Vedanta are meant to accomplish.
[32:19] The teachings of Vedanta do not guide us
[32:22] on handling social problems.
[32:25] And if we say it's all an illusion, why
[32:27] should we even deal with it?
[32:30] That is
[32:32] a misuse of the teachings of Vedanta.
[32:35] Besides the fact that I've never said
[32:37] it's all an illusion, Shankara Acharya
[32:40] never used a word that means illusion.
[32:45] We say that the world is mithya, which
[32:49] means not as real as Brahman. It has
[32:54] experiential reality. The world has
[32:58] empirical reality. According to
[33:01] Shankara's Advaita Vedanta, the world is
[33:05] not an illusion. How many How many
[33:08] people have said that though?
[33:10] Everyone says, "According to Shankara
[33:12] Acharya, the world is an illusion."
[33:14] Those are people who haven't studied
[33:16] Shankara properly, and especially people
[33:19] who don't understand Sanskrit. Because
[33:22] if you uh Shankara Acharya's Sanskrit is
[33:26] so precise.
[33:28] And if you read his words in Sanskrit,
[33:31] you can't possibly twist them around to
[33:35] make it look like the world is an
[33:37] illusion.
[33:38] Absolutely not what he what he teaches.
[33:42] Let me pause here and ask uh do any of
[33:44] you have a question? There's a question
[33:45] here. You'll need the microphone.
[33:49] I'll need to turn on the microphone.
[33:56] Okay.
[33:58] Please.
[33:59] Yeah.
[34:00] Thank you.
[34:01] >> Namaste, Swamiji. Um just to follow up
[34:04] on this questions. Recently, we are
[34:06] seeing a lot of the anti-Hindu
[34:09] propaganda on the social media, which
[34:12] resulted almost having a lot of uh
[34:15] Hindus getting killed in Illinois
[34:17] recently. There was
[34:19] So, how to deal with, you know, what you
[34:21] just talked about, the responsibility
[34:24] for the Hindus to actually actually
[34:26] protect themselves and make sure that we
[34:28] are responsibly managing the interest of
[34:31] the Hindus and not being targeted uh
[34:33] unnecessarily.
[34:34] >> And uh
[34:35] what what Manas is referring to is I
[34:38] think a young man in Illinois was
[34:41] somehow apprehended before he could
[34:45] conduct a terrorist act on a local Hindu
[34:49] temple which could have been something
[34:51] extremely
[34:53] severe.
[34:55] And
[34:56] Manas's question was how should the
[34:59] Hindu community respond?
[35:02] Well,
[35:03] certainly just to loop back to last
[35:04] question, should we say oh it's an
[35:06] illusion?
[35:07] >> [laughter]
[35:09] >> Clearly that's not a good approach.
[35:13] >> [clears throat]
[35:13] >> If Shankaracharya were sitting here, you
[35:15] ask him what would he say it's an
[35:17] illusion?
[35:18] I don't think so. Okay.
[35:21] So, how what should be our response?
[35:23] First of all, to understand that young
[35:26] men
[35:29] are highly impressionable.
[35:32] And somehow
[35:34] either either due to
[35:38] external influences or due to mental
[35:41] illness, we don't know which or both,
[35:45] that this young man had concocted this
[35:48] this terrible plan.
[35:51] So, what should be our response? And as
[35:55] we And that's a good example you bring
[35:57] up, and that is protection.
[36:00] We have to protect ourselves. And what
[36:04] is the appropriate way to protect to for
[36:08] Hindus to protect themselves?
[36:10] Well, the appropriate way has to be
[36:14] appropriate. You can't
[36:16] you know, you can't lock up all
[36:19] impressionable young men. You can't turn
[36:22] off the internet, although some
[36:24] countries have tried to to do that.
[36:26] Doesn't work very well.
[36:29] So,
[36:31] I don't you you may not know the United
[36:33] States government actually has a program
[36:36] where it gives financial grants to
[36:39] religious organizations, including Hindu
[36:42] temples, to install security devices
[36:46] on their
[36:48] buildings, on their facilities.
[36:51] So,
[36:52] for for starters, that every every Hindu
[36:55] organization can increase their security
[37:00] measures to the extent it's warranted.
[37:04] And
[37:06] in a broader sense,
[37:08] given any situation
[37:12] a Hindu might face, we have to determine
[37:15] what are the proper measures. I keep
[37:19] coming back to that term, proper
[37:20] measure, and a proper response, a
[37:23] proportionate response.
[37:25] Cuz sometimes our responses are not
[37:28] proportionate.
[37:30] And I I find that
[37:33] disturbing.
[37:34] Um
[37:38] This came up yesterday in our meditation
[37:41] session. I gave a metaphor of how people
[37:45] people who get hurt
[37:47] fight back against that hurt.
[37:49] If you get hit, then you hit back, which
[37:52] is already a problem. Wouldn't it be
[37:54] better to prevent getting hit in the
[37:56] first place, but that's another story.
[37:59] But the problem sometimes we see in a
[38:02] societal reaction is that you get hit
[38:05] once,
[38:06] and you respond by hitting back 10
[38:08] times.
[38:10] Hit me once, I hit you 10 times.
[38:14] There are some international situations
[38:17] going on today where we see evidence of
[38:20] that kind of disproportionate
[38:23] response.
[38:28] And it's harmful.
[38:29] It's unnecessary. It's adharmic. It's
[38:32] immoral. It's illogical.
[38:36] So, how does
[38:38] hitting someone 10 times solves the
[38:41] problem? If hitting once doesn't solve
[38:44] the problem, nine more times isn't going
[38:47] to
[38:49] flip the uh the scale.
[38:52] So,
[38:55] and I guess the point
[38:57] I'm leading up to is
[39:00] to respond to a situation like you've
[39:03] just described
[39:06] with fear and exaggeration
[39:10] like the media loves to do.
[39:14] So, when local media will pick up on
[39:16] this story,
[39:17] the local media will make a big, big
[39:20] deal of it.
[39:21] And make it look like every Hindu temple
[39:25] in the world had better be
[39:28] aware and afraid of these crazy young
[39:32] men who are plotting these terrible,
[39:35] terroristic effects.
[39:37] That excessive
[39:39] fear and concern
[39:42] to me seems like an overreaction,
[39:46] which it which does perhaps more harm
[39:49] than good. That's an over That's That's
[39:52] [snorts]
[39:53] hitting back 10 times when you've been
[39:55] hit once. It's not To me, it's not a
[39:58] proportional
[40:00] response. Okay, let's take a few more
[40:02] questions and wrap things up.
[40:04] This question from uh Daniel.
[40:10] Daniel lives in Australia.
[40:13] How can an infinite reward be
[40:16] experienced by a person.
[40:20] The infinite infinite reward being
[40:23] moksha,
[40:25] total cessation of suffering.
[40:27] How can an infinite reward be
[40:30] experienced?
[40:32] How can it come from a finite series of
[40:35] actions?
[40:37] >> [snorts]
[40:37] >> For example, practices of self-inquiry.
[40:42] So, this is uh Daniel understands
[40:45] something and I'm going to uh
[40:47] explain this in a little bit more
[40:48] detail.
[40:50] Daniel understands something about the
[40:52] doctrine of karma.
[40:54] And that is the effect of We're still on
[40:57] proportionality.
[40:58] The effect is always proportional to the
[41:00] cause.
[41:02] A small cause, a small deed will have a
[41:06] small result. A medium-size deed will
[41:10] have a medium result.
[41:13] But if you want a huge result, it's
[41:16] going to take a really huge deed. Think
[41:18] about your life. If you want to build a
[41:22] career,
[41:23] which is a pretty big result, it's going
[41:26] to take some very serious work
[41:30] to prepare yourself for that kind of
[41:32] result. So, according to the magnitude
[41:35] of the result, that will determine the
[41:39] magnitude of the effort needed to get
[41:42] that result.
[41:44] Now, here's Daniel's logic, which is
[41:47] sort of okay, but there's a problem.
[41:50] So, according to Daniel's logic, moksha
[41:53] is an infinite result.
[41:56] Therefore, to get a infinite result, how
[41:58] much effort should be required?
[42:01] Infinite.
[42:03] Are you up for an infinite effort
[42:06] to gain moksha? Now,
[42:10] the the logic is actually tight. It's
[42:13] It's correct logic except that gaining
[42:17] moksha is not an action.
[42:21] If gaining moksha were an action, it
[42:24] would be impossible.
[42:25] And the way to understand it is this.
[42:29] If moksha requires like the purification
[42:33] of atma, atma is somehow impure, atma is
[42:38] somehow deficient,
[42:41] atma is somehow vulnerable,
[42:44] if atma has a problem
[42:47] and we have to fix it up,
[42:51] then we're in trouble.
[42:53] Because to fix up atma so that it's
[42:56] perfect
[42:58] will take an infinite effort.
[43:02] Not possible.
[43:04] So, this is
[43:06] what is one of the absolute unique
[43:11] teachings of Advaita Vedanta
[43:14] is we begin by acknowledging that fact.
[43:17] If liberation
[43:20] is gained
[43:22] by fixing up atma in some way or
[43:26] another,
[43:27] liberation moksha is absolutely
[43:31] impossible.
[43:33] Advaita Vedanta agrees
[43:35] but says
[43:37] instead,
[43:38] what if atma is not defective? What if
[43:44] atma is already perfect?
[43:48] After all, we call it inner divinity,
[43:51] loosely speaking.
[43:53] If it's divine,
[43:55] it needs to be fixed up?
[43:59] So, a proper understanding of the
[44:01] teachings of Vedanta is that your true
[44:05] nature as such chidananda Atman is
[44:08] already free from suffering.
[44:12] Has never been subject to suffering.
[44:17] Never been subject to suffering.
[44:22] Then you say, "But but Swamiji, I
[44:23] thought this is all about
[44:25] getting gaining freedom from suffering."
[44:27] It is.
[44:28] Freedom from suffering for whom?
[44:32] Not for Atman.
[44:34] Atman doesn't need Advaita Vedanta.
[44:37] Atman certainly doesn't need Swami
[44:39] Tadatmananda.
[44:41] The one who needs the teachings of
[44:44] Vedanta is the one who says, "I suffer."
[44:49] The one who says, "I suffer" is
[44:52] suffering due to ignorance
[44:56] of [snorts] their true nature as
[44:58] Satchidananda Atman.
[45:00] So,
[45:01] the Vedantic response to this is gaining
[45:05] moksha is not the result of effort.
[45:11] Gaining moksha is a result of removing
[45:14] ignorance.
[45:16] But,
[45:18] does it mean no effort is required?
[45:23] Took some effort to come here for
[45:25] satsang or to watch this uh satsang, to
[45:28] attend this satsang. Effort is required.
[45:32] But, only effort to put yourself in a
[45:35] situation where you can learn.
[45:39] Does it take an infinite amount of
[45:41] effort
[45:42] to be in a situation where you can
[45:44] learn? No. A finite effort to prepare
[45:49] yourself. We talk a lot about Adhikari
[45:51] Twam, preparedness for these teachings
[45:55] to lead to this uh this removal of of
[45:59] ignorance.
[46:01] To gain that preparedness takes effort.
[46:06] But finite effort.
[46:09] Finite effort to become a prepared
[46:12] student
[46:15] accompanied by proper teachings
[46:19] and properly directed effort in the
[46:21] practice of Atma Vichara
[46:24] is sufficient to remove ignorance
[46:28] which is not an action.
[46:30] The effort is required to get ready for
[46:32] knowledge.
[46:33] At
[46:35] This is a little subtle.
[46:37] Um
[46:40] Yeah. I I I I I
[46:42] There's a little technical, but there's
[46:44] a some technical stuff behind this
[46:46] question. So, just briefly.
[46:49] Is not Is gaining knowledge an action?
[46:52] This is the the deeper question. Is
[46:56] gaining knowledge an action?
[46:59] So, right now you have knowledge of me.
[47:03] Why?
[47:04] Because your eyes are open.
[47:06] Now, you can use effort to close your
[47:09] eyes or open your eyes.
[47:12] That takes How much effort does it take?
[47:14] It's But it does It's an action.
[47:17] You
[47:18] Your Your action has to be to turn your
[47:20] head in the right direction. Your action
[47:22] has to be to open your eyes. I'll make a
[47:24] joke. Your action has to be to keep your
[47:26] eyes open when you get drowsy because
[47:29] Swami Turiya Ananda goes on and on and
[47:31] on and on. [laughter]
[47:34] That happens. I I get it.
[47:39] So
[47:40] So, effort to keep the eyes open.
[47:43] That takes effort.
[47:45] But once your eyes are open
[47:48] is it an additional effort to see me?
[47:53] So, this is a metaphor used to describe
[47:57] that effort is required to prepare for
[48:00] yourself to gain knowledge but gaining
[48:03] knowledge is not an effort. It's not an
[48:08] action. It's not a deed. So to gain
[48:11] knowledge of the infinite does not
[48:14] require an infinite effort.
[48:18] Okay, enough said. Let's
[48:21] finish up here.
[48:39] Uh there was a question right at the
[48:40] beginning of Satsang
[48:43] from Abhishek who lives in Bihar.
[48:47] So he asks um
[48:53] He asks about Is it fair to say that man
[48:57] mind
[48:58] is the key to knowing one's true self
[49:01] when your man when your mind is still
[49:04] still a firm
[49:06] then you have no ahankar
[49:09] no ego.
[49:11] A still man is all about karma man
[49:13] either wants to do something doesn't
[49:15] want to do
[49:16] so about say it say it say for teach for
[49:19] char
[49:21] which are say
[49:24] nishchay nishchay say karma
[49:27] this is not this is not Advaita Vedanta
[49:30] some other some other teaching that
[49:32] Abhishek is is following. First of all
[49:35] what is the
[49:36] role of the mind in Advaita Vedanta is
[49:40] actually surprisingly simple.
[49:45] Since and we'll make we'll make this our
[49:47] last question I think.
[49:50] As we've discussed your true nature is
[49:53] already Satchidananda.
[49:56] Already perfect, already complete, has
[50:00] never been subject
[50:02] to pain or suffering.
[50:05] Which is not to deny the existence you
[50:08] experience pain and suffering, but
[50:13] understood properly, that pain or
[50:16] suffering does not affect your true
[50:19] nature as Satchidananda Atman.
[50:23] The problem
[50:25] a
[50:26] from our Vedantic perspective, and to
[50:29] use my guru's very clear English
[50:32] expression,
[50:34] the problem is non-recognition
[50:38] of your true nature.
[50:41] Self-non-recognition,
[50:44] he called it. Which is a particular kind
[50:47] of ignorance. Often we refer to it
[50:50] loosely as a veil of ignorance obscuring
[50:54] that true self, which is already present
[50:57] in your experience, but veiled due to
[51:01] the presence of experience.
[51:04] Where
[51:06] if
[51:07] This is to show that the problem is
[51:10] ignorance.
[51:13] Tell me, where does
[51:15] where does ignorance
[51:17] >> [snorts]
[51:17] >> hang out, so to speak?
[51:20] Where does ignorance exist?
[51:23] Ignorance can only exist in your mind.
[51:28] So, the locus of the problem of
[51:32] self-non-recognition
[51:35] is your mind.
[51:37] The solution then is going to be to
[51:41] remove ignorance
[51:43] from
[51:45] the mind.
[51:46] How?
[51:49] Probably with your mind.
[51:52] You know, but somebody might say, "How
[51:53] can the mind remove ignorance from your
[51:55] mind?"
[51:56] Come on. Doesn't it? That makes perfect
[51:59] sense to me.
[52:00] In fact, there's a Sanskrit idiom,
[52:02] kantakena kantakam.
[52:05] If you get a thorn
[52:07] in your foot, how do you get the thorn
[52:09] out?
[52:10] Well, you just get another thorn
[52:13] and you use that thorn to dig out the
[52:15] thorn in your foot. Then you throw them
[52:17] both away.
[52:19] So, you use your mind to resolve the
[52:23] problem that's in your mind. And when
[52:25] the problem is resolved, then it's
[52:27] resolved. And what you don't have to do
[52:31] is get rid of your mind cuz I think
[52:35] Abhishek's use of his words chitta
[52:38] means also silent. There's a very common
[52:41] misunderstanding
[52:43] that somehow we have to make our minds
[52:46] silent.
[52:48] If you have a thorn in your foot,
[52:51] cutting off your foot is a possible
[52:53] solution,
[52:54] but not a preferable [laughter]
[52:58] solution.
[53:00] In the same way, if you have suffering
[53:03] in your mind,
[53:05] making your mind silent
[53:09] is a possible solution,
[53:13] but it's not preferable because if your
[53:15] mind is silent, how can you live your
[53:17] life?
[53:22] So, [snorts]
[53:23] the solution then is not found through
[53:26] controlling
[53:27] the mind. And in in um Abhishek's uh
[53:32] uh Hindi comment here, it looks like
[53:35] he's focused on controlling the mind.
[53:38] We need only an ordinary degree of
[53:41] control over the mind to make the mind
[53:43] prepared
[53:45] to listen to these teachings of Vedanta,
[53:48] to use these teachings of Vedanta to
[53:51] guide the practice of Atma Vichara,
[53:55] self-enquiry, which is a mental
[53:57] practice.
[53:59] That mental practice culminating in the
[54:02] discovery of your true nature as
[54:05] Satchidananda Atma. With that discovery,
[54:08] the so-called veil of ignorance is
[54:10] removed. In the absence of the
[54:12] ignorance, identification with the body
[54:14] and mind go away.
[54:16] Suffering comes to an end. So, the goal
[54:20] is not to make your mind silent. The
[54:23] goal the goal is to engage in a mental
[54:26] practice of Atma Vichara to solve the
[54:30] problem of ignorance, whose locus is in
[54:34] the mind.
[54:36] Okay. There are many more questions,
[54:38] especially in the in the chat here. I
[54:41] apologize. We won't get further. We'll
[54:45] have more questions next week. We'll
[54:47] conclude the prayer.
[54:51] Om Sarve Bhavantu
[54:54] Sukhinaha
[54:56] Sarve
[54:57] Santu Niramayaha
[55:01] Sarve [snorts]
[55:02] Bhadrani Pashyantu
[55:05] Ma Kashchid Duhkha Bhag Bhavet
[55:10] Asatoma
[55:12] Sad Gamaya Tamasoma
[55:16] Jyotir Gamaya Mrityorma
[55:21] Amritam Gamaya Om Shanti
[55:25] Shanti
[55:27] Shantihi
[55:30] Om
[55:31] Tat Sat
[55:33] See you next time.