Transcript
[0:01] [Music]
[0:08] [Music]
[0:16] omish
[0:20] [Music]
[0:23] vuru so we are studying the Bhagavad
[0:25] Gita and we are on the 13th
[0:28] chapter and we begun but people are
[0:31] getting the impression that we are sort
[0:33] of stuck there because we are on the
[0:37] second verse but it's so very important
[0:40] especially from an nonuel
[0:43] perspective um let's just chant the
[0:45] first two verses and then we'll catch up
[0:48] on where we are and go forward from
[0:55] there you can chant after
[0:57] me bhagavan
[1:01] ban
[1:03] [Music]
[1:52] [Music]
[1:59] m
[2:02] [Music]
[2:07] what we were doing was that we were
[2:09] taking a close look at Shankar aar's
[2:12] commentary on these two verses ADI
[2:16] Shankar AAR has written an extensive
[2:18] profound deep commentary on these two
[2:21] verses especially the second verse the
[2:24] second verse goes on for several Pages
[2:27] very densely and closely argued
[2:29] commentary
[2:30] so looking at part of that to do the
[2:33] whole of it would take maybe 20 classes
[2:36] but I propose to do some more of that
[2:39] today um and then we'll we'll proceed to
[2:43] the next verse in the next class but
[2:46] today we will continue with the story
[2:48] what's the story so far s Krishna says
[2:50] at the beginning of the 13th chapter he
[2:52] makes a division he says whatever you
[2:56] know is call it the field whatever we
[3:00] know know whatever we experience you
[3:01] call it the
[3:03] field and you the knower the one who is
[3:07] experiencing call yourself the knower of
[3:09] the field so we have two the field and
[3:11] the knower of the
[3:13] field here also he makes a specific
[3:15] thing that he says uh whatever we know
[3:19] is the field that's true but
[3:21] specifically the body is the field in
[3:23] the in the first verse Krishna has said
[3:26] the body call the body the
[3:29] field and and the knower of the body
[3:32] call call that one the knower of the
[3:33] field why is he doing this the goal is
[3:36] self- knowledge the goal is self
[3:39] knowledge that the world is something
[3:41] separate from me it's an object that's
[3:45] very clear to all of us we don't think I
[3:47] am the table or I am the clock I I know
[3:50] the clock but I'm not the table or the
[3:52] clock but when it comes to the body the
[3:55] trouble starts because I say yes I know
[3:57] the body but we also say or think or
[4:01] believe and certainly we act as if we
[4:04] were the body so that's why specifically
[4:07] though the whole world is your field the
[4:10] body is specifically mentioned by
[4:12] Krishna the body is the field it's
[4:15] called labeled designated the field and
[4:19] you the one who experiences that body
[4:22] from within you are the knower of the
[4:25] field what point is he making what's the
[4:27] teaching here the knower is different
[4:30] from the known The Seer is different
[4:32] from the seen D Anda in Sanskrit The
[4:35] Seer and the scene subject and object
[4:37] are different what you know is different
[4:41] from what you are so if I know the table
[4:44] by know I means I see the table or I
[4:46] touch the table I hear
[4:48] it therefore it's an object and I'm
[4:52] clearly not the table so the knower is
[4:55] different from the known this is the
[4:57] point he's making but using this
[5:01] um great discovery is
[5:04] made if we are clear that I am not the
[5:07] knower the knower I'm not the known the
[5:11] known is I am the knower and the knower
[5:14] and the known are different clearly the
[5:16] body is the
[5:18] known so body is known you can see it
[5:22] hear it smell it taste it touch it this
[5:24] this body in that case the body being
[5:27] the known it should be called the field
[5:30] and I am the knower of the
[5:32] field I must be different from the body
[5:35] this is the first dramatic Insight we
[5:38] get I cannot literally be this skin and
[5:42] these bones and this flesh and blood and
[5:46] hair I cannot literally be this it's
[5:50] close to me it's intimate to me it's I'm
[5:53] implicated in it somehow I'm embodied in
[5:55] this somehow but I am not it and it is
[5:58] not me first
[6:01] dramatic Insight but you go further it
[6:05] becomes even more
[6:08] startling my
[6:10] thoughts they're also known to me after
[6:12] all I can know my own thoughts I can
[6:14] introspect and I'm aware when I'm happy
[6:17] I know the happy
[6:25] thoughts I was walking in the park and
[6:28] there was this little babies and they
[6:31] were the nannies and they were singing a
[6:34] song If you are happy and you know it
[6:37] and clap your
[6:38] hands I thought that's so deeply
[6:41] philosophical that's the 13th
[6:50] chapter that's what Krishna is telling
[6:52] Arjuna that if you're happy and you know
[6:54] it you clap your
[6:55] hands yes because a very amazing thing
[6:58] is being shown there
[7:01] if you are happy and you know it if you
[7:03] know it very interesting if you know it
[7:07] then you are not happy you the know
[7:08] you're the knower of
[7:10] Happiness then you must be different
[7:13] from the
[7:14] happiness if you are I don't want to be
[7:17] different from happiness well you do you
[7:19] really do trust me you want to be
[7:20] different from happiness but that also
[7:23] makes you different from
[7:24] sadness if you are sad and you know
[7:28] it don't cry
[7:32] because because then it's an object if
[7:35] you know it it's an object it's the
[7:37] field and you are the knower of the
[7:39] field you are the knower of sadness
[7:42] hence you are not sad you the knower of
[7:45] Happiness hence you are not
[7:48] happy you are not afflicted by these
[7:50] passing clouds you're like the vast Blue
[7:53] Sky not afflicted by dark clouds or
[7:55] white clouds they come and go
[7:57] go but the sky is not affected
[8:01] thereby because you are the knower and
[8:04] that is the known they are
[8:07] different great great second great
[8:09] insight you're not even the mind not the
[8:13] passing emotions in the mind which come
[8:15] and go no matter how powerful those
[8:17] emotions are how true they
[8:20] seem the first thing you must notice I
[8:23] am not that I was there before this
[8:26] feeling this terrible feeling came to me
[8:29] I was there before that
[8:30] and one day one time that feeling will
[8:33] go away very soon actually and I'll
[8:35] still be there and I'm the same one
[8:37] before the feeling and after the feeling
[8:39] therefore I'm the same one during the
[8:40] feeling
[8:42] also when there's no feeling of sadness
[8:45] you can't say I'm am sad that's silly I
[8:47] don't feel sad but I'm very sad what
[8:49] does that
[8:50] mean so you were not sad before the
[8:53] feeling of sadness came you're not sad
[8:55] when the feeling of sadness is gone
[8:57] therefore you're not sad when the
[8:58] feeling of sadness is there you are the
[9:00] knower of the feeling of sadness in the
[9:03] mind and the memories and the ideas and
[9:08] the opinions and The Grudges and the
[9:12] resentments and the fears and the
[9:15] anxieties you know all of them you
[9:18] experience all of them therefore you are
[9:20] not them you are the knower you are the
[9:23] witness of all of
[9:26] these so you are not the body not the
[9:29] mind all of this Krishna says by saying
[9:32] see that thing is the field and you are
[9:35] the knower of the field the body and the
[9:37] mind are the field and you are the
[9:39] knower of the field hence free of the
[9:42] body mind even when you are in that body
[9:46] mind they're not stuck to
[9:50] you then you are the knower of the field
[9:53] you are the witness this is called D
[9:55] saki CH the witness Consciousness and
[9:58] he's saying you are that already
[10:00] you don't have to become the
[10:02] witness many people think it's a
[10:05] spiritual practice I have to be the
[10:06] witness and sit quietly and witness
[10:08] everything there's a good practice but
[10:10] what Krishna is saying whether you
[10:12] choose to or you do not choose to you
[10:14] are choicelessly the
[10:15] witness only thing that you can do then
[10:18] then what is he saying here what what
[10:19] what's the outcome only thing you can do
[10:21] is note it know it it's a teaching of
[10:25] knowledge not of not of doing something
[10:29] if I sit quietly and breathe calmly and
[10:31] watch my mind that's a good practice
[10:32] you're doing something but you did not
[10:34] become the knower of the field by doing
[10:36] it you're already the knower of the
[10:37] field Krishna is telling you you are
[10:40] already the knower of the field no
[10:41] matter what you do you cannot be
[10:43] otherwise you're choicelessly
[10:48] awareness all right then the next verse
[10:52] Krishna gives another
[10:54] bomshell how many knowers of the field
[10:57] how many fields are there if a body is
[10:58] the field how many fields
[11:00] billions there are 100 here there are
[11:03] millions outside there are billions
[11:05] around the world not just human bodies
[11:07] why just human bodies all living bodies
[11:09] are the
[11:10] field in that there is a knower of the
[11:13] field so how many knowers of the field
[11:15] billions that's our first answer Krishna
[11:17] says
[11:22] no in all fields in all these fields
[11:26] billions of fields I am the one
[11:28] consciousness
[11:30] see the continuity of teaching in the
[11:32] 11th chapter Arjun had this remarkable
[11:35] Vision the entire world United in one
[11:38] being Vish this is the Philosophical
[11:41] Investigation of that know me to be the
[11:43] one Consciousness in all
[11:45] beings just a minute I am the conscious
[11:48] knower of the field and you're saying
[11:49] you are the knower of the field then I
[11:51] and you are same yes so that is the
[11:55] vedantic idea of God the
[11:58] aamas that thou art or I am
[12:01] Brahman then what about the world one
[12:04] more Point first he made a distinction
[12:06] between the body and you you're the
[12:08] witness and the mind and the body are
[12:10] the field you're the knower of the field
[12:12] next he said there's only one knower of
[12:14] the field there are many many fields but
[12:15] there's only one know of the
[12:16] fear one
[12:19] Consciousness but then that still leaves
[12:21] many Minds many bodies mountains and sky
[12:25] and Earth and oceans and you know the
[12:27] big and the small this entire physical
[12:29] Universe what about that says that is
[12:32] also nothing but you it is that one
[12:34] Consciousness you know in vant says
[12:36] through Maya it appears as its own
[12:38] object a very profound
[12:40] teaching so what have we got so far let
[12:43] me summarize it this is what Krishna
[12:45] taught Arjuna you're not the body you're
[12:49] not the mind you're the witness
[12:51] Consciousness the knower of the field
[12:53] there's only one second this is first
[12:55] first teaching second teaching there's
[12:58] only one witness consciousness
[13:01] and that is what vanta calls God but you
[13:04] and God are the same reality that one
[13:05] witness Consciousness and the entire
[13:07] universe is Noni that one witness
[13:10] Consciousness projects itself as its own
[13:13] object in krishna's language it is the
[13:17] knower of the field who appears as the
[13:19] field he has not said that anywhere
[13:21] later on he'll talk about it but it's a
[13:23] knower of the field who appears as the
[13:25] field and then knows it a good way of
[13:27] understanding this sounds very
[13:28] complicated what we we experience it
[13:30] every day you know when
[13:33] dreams everything that you know in the
[13:35] dream is the field but when you wake up
[13:37] and say everything I knew everybody I
[13:38] knew everything that happened in the
[13:39] dream was I the dreamer my mind alone it
[13:42] appeared as the dream so none of it is
[13:45] different from me it can't survive
[13:46] without me I can survive without the
[13:49] dream the dream cannot survive without
[13:51] me universe is entirely dependent for
[13:55] its existence and
[13:57] illumination I'm translating from
[13:59] Sanskrit
[14:01] sat or sat prasha for its existence and
[14:05] for its illumination just as every
[14:06] entity in the dream is dependent on you
[14:09] the dreamer for its existence so-called
[14:13] existence and for its illumination
[14:15] illumination means experienceability on
[14:17] you similarly the claim by Krishna is
[14:21] right here in this waking word seems to
[14:22] be so real and different from you it's
[14:24] not different from you you are the one
[14:27] Consciousness in all beings and this
[14:28] entire thing you are experiencing the
[14:31] object is your own
[14:33] projection vianda put it that this way
[14:36] the self alone is all that exists and
[14:38] all that exists is a projection of the
[14:42] self this one self in all beings is what
[14:44] Vidant calls
[14:48] God okay this is what Krishna said now
[14:53] uh Shankar aara starts his
[14:55] commentary um he says this is really
[14:58] knowledge the truth about the world and
[15:01] the individual and God the
[15:03] triangle J jagat isar jagat Universe J
[15:07] you and God the god of religion that's
[15:12] where religion stops that world is there
[15:15] nobody denies it you are there you can't
[15:18] deny yourself the dean Kito or gum the
[15:21] one thing that cannot be denied is I
[15:22] exist and on top of that religion adds
[15:25] that there is a God so these three vant
[15:30] goes further it says it doesn't deny God
[15:35] what it says is God world and you are
[15:38] ultimately one reality there is a ground
[15:41] the ground of God and the ground of the
[15:44] world and the ground of yourself are one
[15:45] and the same ground I'm paraphrasing
[15:48] Master eart the German Mystic who said
[15:52] the ground of my soul the ground of God
[15:54] and the ground of my soul are the one
[15:55] and the same ground ground means the
[15:58] reality found foundational
[16:04] reality the moment I said foundational
[16:06] reality I can visualize my madhyamaka
[16:10] teachers raising an eyebrow two both
[16:13] eyebrows nagarjuna they're anti-
[16:16] foundationalist there's no founding
[16:17] reality according to them anyway that's
[16:19] a different subject now the opponent
[16:23] comes up with immediately it says that
[16:27] um four questions we have done all this
[16:30] I'm just Rec recapitulating four
[16:32] questions one is that if you are saying
[16:34] God and the individual are the same
[16:36] reality Krishna said
[16:38] that know the the knower of the field in
[16:41] all the fields to be me that means all
[16:43] the sentient beings in all these bodies
[16:45] are none other than God but if you're
[16:48] equating god with sentient beings Jas
[16:51] then what happens it says that then
[16:54] ishar God becomes a
[16:57] j okay so what's wrong with that
[17:00] everything is wrong with it because the
[17:01] whole idea of God is God is beyond our
[17:03] imperfections God is not a mere mortal
[17:05] creature like us you're reducing pulling
[17:07] down God to not God or the other way
[17:10] around you're saying there is no ja at
[17:12] all because the Jas are none other than
[17:14] God all sentian beings are God you're
[17:17] saying and what will what that happen
[17:20] What will lead to what what will be the
[17:21] consequence
[17:23] samsar there will not be any samsara
[17:27] anymore if you all God if you are God
[17:30] where is samsara for you free of samsara
[17:33] that's good isn't it we want to be free
[17:34] of samsara first of all just by saying
[17:36] it one doesn't because there's obvious
[17:38] fact that we have samsara how can you
[17:41] say if I am God then I shouldn't have
[17:42] Sam I shouldn't have troubles I
[17:44] shouldn't be born I shouldn't die I
[17:45] shouldn't suffer clearly I do I am born
[17:48] and I suffer and I die so I can't be God
[17:53] but you saying that there are no Jas
[17:55] there only God exists or all Jas are one
[17:58] with God
[18:01] then the third problem will be
[18:04] shast all the scriptures become
[18:07] meaningless then if you are God if the
[18:09] sentient being is God why teach religion
[18:11] to God what's the point of religion if
[18:14] the whole idea of vant or all other
[18:16] Hindu Buddhist Jin philosophies are to
[18:19] free you from the cycle of birth and
[18:21] death well obviously that means there is
[18:23] somebody going through the cycle of
[18:24] birth and death there is some j a
[18:26] sentient being who's suffering but
[18:28] you're denying it
[18:30] it's meaningless religion becomes
[18:31] meaningless then then the final
[18:37] objection perception inference all of
[18:40] those we are seeing a
[18:42] world in the words of immortal words of
[18:46] our president come on
[18:48] man we are seeing a world how can you
[18:52] say there's no
[18:53] world how can you say there's no word we
[18:57] seeing it you infer we in by inference
[19:01] by by perception the world is proved you
[19:04] cannot deny that there is a
[19:06] world so these are the four objections
[19:09] ishwara will become the S ja or ja will
[19:11] become ishwara there will be no samsara
[19:14] the shastras religion becomes
[19:16] meaningless and um perception our direct
[19:20] experience of the world exists and
[19:22] Shankar's answer to all of this was
[19:29] all of this becomes reasonable that you
[19:32] are Brahman the world is in appearance
[19:34] becomes reasonable when you understand
[19:35] the difference between knowledge and
[19:38] ignorance between knowledge and
[19:40] everything will make
[19:42] sense how
[19:45] so the difference between God and the
[19:48] individual the existence of the world
[19:50] all of this in the state of ignorance it
[19:53] is
[19:54] admitted when you realize the truth that
[19:57] you are Brahman then only that there is
[19:59] only one underlying reality that that is
[20:01] becomes clear otherwise not and
[20:04] therefore the relevance of the
[20:09] scriptures as long as we do not realize
[20:12] we are Brahman we don't realize this
[20:13] this Oneness this nonduality samsara
[20:16] exists for us we are suffering through
[20:18] that's why we feel we are suffering
[20:19] through samsara and as long as we feel
[20:21] we suffering through samsara we do not
[20:22] know the timate reality then all the
[20:24] teachings of vant become relevant for us
[20:30] all right now he gives shankaracharya
[20:33] proceeds to give several uh quotations
[20:36] from the Ops in support of the fact that
[20:38] knowledge reveals the reality which is
[20:40] already pre-existing you are Brahman
[20:42] that is revealed by knowledge and
[20:44] ignorance hides the reality makes you
[20:46] feel like individual separated U
[20:48] individual beings sentient beings and
[20:51] causes samsara and in the open many
[20:54] times again and again you find
[20:55] quotations to support the fact that
[20:58] knowledge is raised knowledge leads to
[21:00] Liberation and takes you beyond
[21:02] suffering ignorance is condemned
[21:04] ignorance leads us to see difference and
[21:07] plunges us into into samsara into birth
[21:09] and death into uh this ceaseless pursuit
[21:13] of satisfying our desires which never
[21:15] succeeds and drives us from Lifetime to
[21:19] Lifetime via's words thine only is the
[21:22] hand that holds the rope that drags thee
[21:25] on so it gives number of examples there
[21:29] number of quotations from the upanishads
[21:32] from the gaita then he gives an argument
[21:35] if you remember it says it is also seen
[21:38] common sense in day-to-day life people
[21:40] who know the existence of an open well
[21:42] or the snake there or of Kusha grass
[21:46] sharp grass those who know of it they
[21:48] avoid these dangers but those who do
[21:51] those who are ignorant they fall into
[21:53] the well or they're bitten by the snake
[21:54] or they cut their hands on the fingers
[21:56] on the grass so therefore what's the
[21:58] point the point is look at the unique
[22:01] power of knowledge knowledge delivers
[22:04] you from suffering knowledge saves you
[22:06] from suffering knowledge leads you to
[22:09] your gives you knowledge of your of your
[22:13] Limitless self and attains fulfill you
[22:15] attain fulfillment overcome suffering
[22:17] through knowledge through ignorance we
[22:21] Veil as it were our real nature and we
[22:23] are plunged into
[22:25] suffering then what
[22:27] happens the question AR Iz is how does
[22:31] this work so if I'm Brahman if I'm
[22:33] Limitless existence Consciousness pleas
[22:35] why do I feel this
[22:38] way then Shankar AAR gives the example
[22:40] of stanu purusha a tree
[22:43] stump those who have remember last class
[22:46] you will recall a tree stump in the
[22:48] distance this is a classic example in
[22:50] Sanskrit literature a tree stump in the
[22:52] distance in the Horizon in sort of dim
[22:55] light from distance looks like a man
[22:58] standing there imagine a tree stump with
[23:01] two branches and twigs looks like two
[23:04] hands in the
[23:06] distance so stanu means unmoving a tree
[23:10] stump or something is mistaken for
[23:12] purusha purusha means a human being now
[23:14] what happens there because of our
[23:17] inability to distinguish to because we
[23:20] do not know first of all it's a tree
[23:22] stump and then we make a mistake
[23:24] thinking it's a human
[23:26] being what do we do because of our
[23:29] inability to know what it is that it's a
[23:31] tree stump inability to distinguish
[23:33] between a human being and a tree stump
[23:36] we superimposed this is Sanskrit word
[23:40] Phil very important philosophical word
[23:42] in vant called adasa superimposition we
[23:46] superimpose which means we make a
[23:49] mistake the qualities of the tree stump
[23:52] on the human being and the qualities of
[23:53] a human being on the tree stem what are
[23:55] the qualities of a human being of having
[23:57] feet and hands and so and so forth you
[23:59] know like this this is nice person or my
[24:02] friend you know the metaphor goes on
[24:05] further that there the cops see a robber
[24:08] there or the robber robber the thief is
[24:09] scared of cops so they see a policeman
[24:12] there oh there's a policeman I can see
[24:13] his hands you know with the hands raised
[24:15] and so on and you are attributing the
[24:18] qualities the characteristics of a human
[24:21] being on a tree stump
[24:24] mistakenly and the other way around you
[24:26] are attributing a tree stum
[24:28] characteristics to a human being what's
[24:30] the tree terms characteristic of
[24:31] literally stanu means unmoving
[24:33] stationary human being is not stationary
[24:35] you're attributing it to the that
[24:36] imaginary human being whom we seeing
[24:38] there so this Mutual mixing up of
[24:42] qualities What's Happening Here is the
[24:45] principle
[24:48] is the object and the subject are
[24:51] different as Krishna said the field and
[24:53] the no of the field are different
[24:56] therefore and this an important
[24:57] therefore the quality qualities of the
[25:00] of the field remain in the field they do
[25:03] not belong to the no of the field and
[25:06] the qualities of the noer of the field
[25:07] remain in the no of the field they do
[25:09] not belong to the
[25:12] field sounds pretty abstract what do you
[25:14] mean it's something very useful for us I
[25:17] mentioned it earlier as one sadu who
[25:23] said what is vant what practical
[25:26] application of vant whatever belongs to
[25:28] keep keep things in their
[25:30] place what are the characteristics of
[25:32] the body it ages let it stay in the body
[25:36] I don't
[25:38] age what is the characteristics of the
[25:40] body it gets
[25:42] sick sickness is in the body fine it's I
[25:45] don't get sick what are we doing body
[25:48] ages and I say I am going older the body
[25:52] become sick I am
[25:55] sick no if you first first of all
[25:59] distinguish yourself from the body and
[26:02] then distinguish yourself remove the
[26:04] qualities of the body which was
[26:05] superimposed upon yourself put it in the
[26:07] body it's like what we have done you
[26:09] know we have Lo looked at the table the
[26:14] table is brown and it's very clear the
[26:17] brown color belongs to the table it
[26:19] doesn't belong to me because I'm not a
[26:21] table but suppose I were to mix myself
[26:23] somehow I thought I was a table then I
[26:25] am a table and therefore I'm brown or I
[26:27] am a um a flower therefore I pink no
[26:32] you're not a flower first and the
[26:34] pinkness belongs to the
[26:37] flower I can show you in fact who did
[26:41] put this cup of water did me a favor
[26:43] actually I'll use a
[26:48] demonstration so water is transparent
[26:51] you see right the moment I put this
[26:55] behind the water does it look a little
[26:57] white
[26:59] now the whiteness belongs to the
[27:01] cup not to the transparent water but the
[27:04] moment I bring the cup near the water it
[27:06] seems to transfer its quality of
[27:08] whiteness into the water if I were to
[27:11] bring it near the pink flower you will
[27:13] see it seems to transfer the quality of
[27:16] being pink the water begins to appear
[27:18] pink does it let me see oh yes it does
[27:23] special
[27:24] effects it appears pink and now you see
[27:26] It'll appear green
[27:30] yes it appears green but the water is
[27:32] colorless now what vant this is called
[27:35] upadhi up is a term which is what it
[27:39] means in Sanskrit I'll tell you and
[27:47] translate which in
[27:50] proximity it appears to transfer its
[27:53] qualities onto the other entity the cup
[27:56] in proximity to the trans
[27:59] glass of water appears to transfer its
[28:01] white quality white color to the
[28:04] water the flower aadii in proximity to
[28:08] the transparent water appears to
[28:10] transmit its pink color into the water
[28:13] the important thing to notice is even
[28:15] while it looks white the water is not
[28:18] white even while it looks pink the water
[28:21] is not
[28:22] pink it's because of this Mutual
[28:25] transference of qualities
[28:30] how would you so what is this relevance
[28:32] to
[28:33] vant what is happening is
[28:36] this we as pure Limitless awareness in
[28:41] US arises this body
[28:44] mind because of
[28:46] proximity this body mind transfers its
[28:49] quality as it were into me the pure
[28:52] untouched Sky of
[28:56] Consciousness I am not young or old
[28:59] but the body is definitely young or old
[29:02] so I feel I'm young or I'm
[29:05] old I am Consciousness Limitless
[29:08] Consciousness cannot be skinny or obese
[29:11] the body can be obese I am obese what
[29:14] happened
[29:15] transfer and did it really transfer no
[29:18] did the water become white or did the
[29:20] water become pink no even while it
[29:23] looked pink even while I think I am old
[29:26] or young or skinny or obese it's the
[29:28] body put the things back into the body
[29:31] put the pink color back into the flower
[29:33] put the white color back into the cup
[29:36] put it means understand it's in the cup
[29:39] even when when the water looks white or
[29:41] pink similarly even when you feel old or
[29:43] young you feel happy or sad
[29:47] Suk or
[29:50] deluded it's so subtle these
[29:52] applications I have understood vant
[29:55] mahaj but when I go into the world world
[29:59] the fact that I'm witness Consciousness
[30:01] slips away and I feel very entangled
[30:03] with the world what's happening the
[30:05] world and the body and the mind and
[30:08] people and the reactions in the mind
[30:10] they're all like the pink of the flower
[30:12] in the flower they're all in the mind
[30:14] but because they're appearing in you the
[30:16] colorless Consciousness the absolutely
[30:18] transparent spacious skylike
[30:20] Consciousness which you are they're
[30:22] appearing there they seem to be
[30:24] colored by unhappiness restlessness
[30:29] anxiety fear they all are like the pink
[30:33] color or the white color or the green
[30:35] color they belong to the aadii to the
[30:37] mind not to
[30:39] you so this transference is happening
[30:42] just like the stump and the person stanu
[30:46] purusha okay then next what happens the
[30:49] opponent comes and says no it won't work
[30:53] nice try shankara but you're making a
[30:57] you're pulling a fast one on us what's
[30:59] the
[31:00] problem
[31:02] the
[31:04] um opponent says some quoting from the
[31:08] commentary who's the opponent it can be
[31:11] any one of a whole range of
[31:12] philosophical schools sometimes they are
[31:15] materialists sometimes they are
[31:16] Buddhists sometimes they are the ni
[31:18] logicians sometimes they are dualists
[31:20] qualified monist many
[31:26] schools no
[31:28] what you just explained is not correct
[31:32] why this examples you're using they
[31:34] don't work they don't work why not all
[31:38] these so many examples you brought out
[31:40] they they're wrong just hold it there we
[31:43] I'm not going to let give you an easy
[31:45] pass on this why are they
[31:47] wrong OPP this is not shankara this is
[31:51] not the nist this is the opponent saying
[31:53] opponent says
[32:08] says look when you
[32:11] said the stump tree stump and the human
[32:14] being this glass cup of water and the
[32:17] white color of the cup the cup and the
[32:21] glass of the cup of this water and the
[32:24] cup they are objects both of
[32:26] them huh
[32:30] they are not like body mind and
[32:31] Consciousness body mind you said are the
[32:34] field they objects and Consciousness is
[32:36] the nor of the field you said Krishna
[32:38] said
[32:40] himself two objects both belonging to
[32:43] the field you can mix them up they're
[32:45] getting mixed up and the flower and the
[32:49] cup of water the flower is an object it
[32:51] belongs to the field that's a good one
[32:53] flowers belong to the field
[32:55] yes but that that mean object an object
[32:57] of awareness aess the cup of water is
[33:00] also an object of awareness two objects
[33:02] are getting mixed up and their qualities
[33:04] are getting mixed up but here you're
[33:06] pulling a fast one on a Shanker I I
[33:08] won't let you do that here you are
[33:11] saying objects like Body Mind are
[33:13] getting mixed up with the subject you
[33:16] are using the field body mind is getting
[33:19] mixed up with the knower of the field
[33:20] these two examples are not the example
[33:22] and what you're trying to show by the
[33:24] example are not the same
[33:26] case not the same case is you you must
[33:30] understand the force of the
[33:32] objection you are saying the field is
[33:35] being superimposed on the no of the
[33:37] field the characteristics of the field
[33:38] are being superimposed on the nor of the
[33:40] field but the examples you're giving are
[33:43] both they all belong to the field
[33:44] they're all objects water is an object
[33:46] cup is an object the tree stump and the
[33:48] human being they're both objects to
[33:50] there they're getting mixed up but
[33:52] you're not talking saying that things
[33:53] there are getting superimposed on me the
[33:55] witness Consciousness these two are
[33:57] strictly separate cases because Krishna
[34:00] just said they are separate they're
[34:02] field and no of the
[34:04] field your examples don't work this is
[34:07] what the objection
[34:09] is yes makes sense you you that that's
[34:13] the beauty of it these commentaries you
[34:15] if you listen carefully to the
[34:17] objections each time if you if you
[34:18] really uh understand the objection you
[34:20] feel right nism is wrong this is clearly
[34:23] a very then you really enjoy Shankar's
[34:26] response what is Shankar's response
[34:29] response he
[34:31] says um so first of all what's your
[34:34] proposal then the opponent's proposal
[34:36] what what is the opponent trying to
[34:42] say he says so though the
[34:47] characteristics of the body they
[34:49] characteristics of the body but they
[34:51] still belong to the
[34:54] self it's not like white color and
[34:57] transparent water color of the cup is
[35:00] the Cup's color white color is the Cup's
[35:02] color it remains in the cup and the
[35:05] water is transparent but that will not
[35:07] work for the body and Consciousness yes
[35:10] old age disease unhappiness misery
[35:14] happiness these are characteristics of
[35:16] the
[35:17] field but they belong to the knower of
[35:20] the field they belong to the knower of
[35:22] the
[35:25] field this is the proposal of the
[35:29] opponent if you look little more deeply
[35:32] it's a reasonable proposal because after
[35:34] all then what can belong to the no of
[35:36] the field because everything else is the
[35:37] field and what do you mean anything
[35:40] belongs to me this is what it what
[35:42] belonging means something is there in
[35:44] the field and this belongs to me that's
[35:45] what it means so that's what he's saying
[35:48] yes the body is there it's the field the
[35:50] body gets old so I am getting old it's
[35:52] reasonable to say that uh there is
[35:55] unhappiness in the mind yes I understand
[35:57] Krishna said mind is the field uh but
[36:00] unhappiness in the mind belongs to me
[36:02] the knower of the field I am
[36:04] unhappy this is the The Proposal
[36:08] Shankar's
[36:11] response
[36:14] nope because of the contingency of
[36:17] insensi what does it mean it says all
[36:22] right so if it belongs to me something
[36:24] in the field belongs to me the field no
[36:26] that's what you're saying what is the
[36:28] field the mind is the field and what is
[36:31] there in the field unhappiness now
[36:33] you're saying unhappiness belongs to me
[36:34] I am unhappy that's what you're saying
[36:36] opponent says yes it's obvious we all
[36:39] experience it then Shankar says but the
[36:42] field has other characteristics field is
[36:45] insentient it's not conscious it's an
[36:48] object right it's an object it has no
[36:51] consciousness I am
[36:53] conscious then that insensi ency of the
[36:56] field that inertness of the field
[36:58] of the field will also belong to me I
[37:00] will become not
[37:04] conscious but we all are conscious
[37:08] obviously the fact that we are knower
[37:10] that means we are conscious we are the
[37:14] experiencer do you see the argument
[37:16] you're saying some things of the field
[37:17] belong to me why not the other things
[37:20] the field is not conscious mind is not
[37:22] conscious an object then that not the
[37:25] non-c Consciousness insensi the the J in
[37:28] Sanskrit it should belong to me the mind
[37:30] is ever changing the everchanging nature
[37:33] of the mind that should also belong to
[37:35] me then I should be Ever
[37:38] Changing mind is arising thoughts in the
[37:40] mind and feelings are arising and
[37:42] disappearing so I should also arise and
[37:43] disappear but that's not
[37:46] happening so your logic doesn't
[37:52] work
[37:54] noer so the I should become the noner
[37:57] then because the
[37:58] um see a thought in the mind is not a
[38:00] knower I know the thought if I think
[38:02] ABCD I am aware of ABCD is ABCD aware of
[38:06] me Ser no is ABCD aware of another
[38:09] thought efgh no is ABCD aware of itself
[38:13] that I am ABCD no it's just a thought
[38:16] it's like mental chatter I am the knower
[38:19] now if the characteristics of the known
[38:21] of ABCD should belong to me it's not a
[38:23] knower then I should also not be become
[38:25] a not knower I should become
[38:26] non-conscious right doesn't
[38:29] happen so it says that's a first
[38:32] objection powerful objection then the
[38:35] character a non-c Consciousness
[38:37] insentience should also come to me but
[38:39] is not
[38:40] coming then he goes on further
[39:02] this is a chess move what does it
[39:04] mean he says so you are
[39:08] saying that is the thrust of the
[39:10] opponent that so when unhappiness comes
[39:13] in the mind it's reasonable to say I am
[39:15] unhappy don't say it's said property of
[39:17] the mind and the unhappiness is in the
[39:19] mind that's what the vtin wants to say
[39:21] no no I am unhappy unhappiness has
[39:23] coming du Suka happiness has come in the
[39:26] mind so I am happy
[39:28] then Shankar's reply is ah but you and
[39:32] these logicians and others they're also
[39:35] religious
[39:36] people don't you believe that there is
[39:38] samsara yes of course that's what we're
[39:40] trying to deny you are the one who's
[39:42] upsetting the Apple card so there
[39:44] samsara and you are religious people
[39:45] you're trying to get MOA Liberation from
[39:47] samsara so there are multiple lifetimes
[39:50] you're going around birth and death yes
[39:52] that's what we say that's the
[39:54] story in that case if you're born and
[39:56] you're dying then you can't the
[39:58] body birth and death belong to the body
[40:01] not to you and body is born and body is
[40:04] dying but and you all all of these
[40:07] opponents they're all religious people
[40:09] whether the Buddhists or Nas whoever
[40:11] they admit that there is samsara they
[40:12] admit that we take up bodies bodies die
[40:14] then with the soul goes on to another
[40:16] life and then takes another body in that
[40:19] case old age disease death belong to the
[40:23] body not to the soul you all admit
[40:26] it so so some properties belong to the
[40:31] field not to the nor of the field and
[40:34] you're saying some properties of the
[40:36] field belong to the no of the
[40:40] field tell me
[40:43] why tell me why old age of the body does
[40:47] belongs to the body and not to the soul
[40:49] soul does not get old disease and death
[40:52] belong to the body and not to the soul
[40:54] soul does not get covid Soul does not
[40:56] die all of you all religion say soul is
[40:59] Immortal the dualist they say soul is
[41:01] Immortal good I agree with you but then
[41:03] you are saying misery and sorrow and
[41:06] unhappiness and delusion belong to the
[41:08] soul
[41:10] why they're also part of the field
[41:13] according to the definition anything
[41:14] known is part of the
[41:16] field you're making a distinction give
[41:18] me the reason for this
[41:21] distinction they have
[41:23] none
[41:25] so he says
[41:28] but I can give you a reason that they do
[41:32] not belong to the to the soul to the at
[41:36] to
[41:38] Consciousness there is reasoning which
[41:39] will prove that the characteristics of
[41:42] the field do not belong to the know of
[41:44] the field it's same logic that we have
[41:45] seen so
[41:50] far he says because they are
[41:53] superimposed on the knower of the field
[41:56] on consciousness because of ignorance
[41:59] they're superimposed did I do not see
[42:01] the distinction between myself and the
[42:03] body therefore the characteristics of
[42:05] the body I take upon myself body gets
[42:08] old I feel I'm getting old I do not see
[42:10] the because of my ignorance I do not see
[42:12] the distinction between me me the
[42:14] Consciousness and the mind therefore the
[42:17] sorrow in the mind I take upon myself by
[42:20] mistake by this
[42:23] aadii and then he is mischievous just
[42:27] like old age and death which you all
[42:29] agree people say I'm getting old I'm
[42:32] going to die and you all say that's an
[42:34] error you all say that right you means
[42:35] you dualists you see actually yeah you
[42:37] don't you don't die you you will go on
[42:39] to another life you all agree to with
[42:41] that yes that's what I'm saying just go
[42:44] one step further and say even sorrow and
[42:47] unhappiness and anxiety and fear and
[42:50] Pleasure and Pain all of them belong to
[42:52] the mind not to you the witness
[42:54] Consciousness not to the knower of the
[42:56] field they belong to the field
[42:58] moment you distinguish subject and
[43:00] object knower and the knower of the
[43:02] field Consciousness and and objects then
[43:05] the properties of object should stay
[43:07] with the objects thoroughly purge
[43:10] yourself the witness of the properties
[43:11] of objects it's a
[43:16] mistake
[43:18] then what is the result of this kind of
[43:24] analysis I'm skipping a little bit here
[43:26] and there if anybody's following the
[43:27] actual commentary a little bit here and
[43:29] there I'm
[43:30] skipping this being the
[43:41] case he says then all of
[43:46] samsar which is characterized by agency
[43:51] and experiencers
[43:54] ship doership I do
[43:58] Karma how does that happen it's because
[44:00] I think I am the body I am the mind I am
[44:04] the thinker of thoughts I am the speaker
[44:06] of words I am the doer of acts so I am
[44:09] the one who's doing K this is called K
[44:12] doer but actually pure Consciousness
[44:14] does not do anything it's the witness of
[44:17] everything is the sky stormy no is the
[44:22] sky windy no it's
[44:25] atmosphere but the sky gives space for
[44:27] the atmosphere to be stormy or
[44:29] windy sky is not affected thereby at all
[44:32] you the Consciousness you enable the
[44:34] mind and the body to come up and do its
[44:36] thing but they all belong to the mind
[44:38] and body not to you ever so he says this
[44:42] Sam they belong to the field not to you
[44:46] the knower of the field samsara is part
[44:48] of the field not to you the knower of
[44:51] the
[44:54] field they are superimposed as if as if
[44:56] they are appearing in you just like
[44:58] white color appears in the transparent
[45:00] water pink color appears in the
[45:02] transparent water water is not white or
[45:05] pink feelings emotions experiences
[45:09] Memories the sense of doership and the
[45:12] sense of enjoyers ship or I'll Co the
[45:14] word sufferers
[45:16] ship I enjoy or suffer enjoy the results
[45:20] of Good Karma and suffer the results of
[45:22] Bad Karma no you do
[45:24] not because of you the Luminous
[45:27] awareness there seems to be an imposed
[45:30] enjoyer ship upon you or imposed
[45:32] sufferers ship upon you but in neither
[45:35] case you're like water is not pink or
[45:38] white you are not enjoying or you're not
[45:41] suffering you are enabling the enjoying
[45:43] to happen you're enabling the suffering
[45:45] to happen because of your
[45:50] presence even more
[45:55] plain nothing of you is ever harmed or
[45:58] polluted or distorted or broken because
[46:01] of samsara you means consciousness nowh
[46:03] of the
[46:11] field just as
[46:14] children unthinking ignorant they they
[46:18] superimpose surface or dirt to the sky
[46:22] so child looking up at the bright blue
[46:25] sky will think it's like an inverted V
[46:27] fast inverted Bowl it sees a surface
[46:29] there's no surface
[46:31] there or it sees the sky become dirty
[46:35] sometimes kids say that the sky become
[46:36] dirty Sky doesn't become dirty just
[46:39] looks like that maybe because of dust or
[46:41] you know clouds or mist or something it
[46:44] doesn't it doesn't become dirty it's
[46:46] superimposed because of the presence of
[46:48] the Dust because of the presence of mist
[46:51] the child thinks the sky has become
[46:52] dirty similarly because of the presence
[46:55] of samsara we think we we are suffering
[46:58] we are going to hell we are going to are
[47:01] enjoying we are going to heaven or we
[47:03] are enjoying we doing really great in
[47:05] this world story time I've told this
[47:08] earlier but it's an appropriate time to
[47:09] tell the story so there was a great Sage
[47:14] Shuka it's one of those ponic stories
[47:17] but it shows the the result of this
[47:21] knowledge once he comes to the great God
[47:24] Shiva mahadeva and comes and you know
[47:27] he's very casual doesn't bow down that
[47:29] respect you have to give to Shiva he
[47:31] starts chatting with Shiva Shiva also
[47:33] chats with him now Parvati the Great
[47:35] Goddess we just came out of navaratri so
[47:38] she uh becomes annoyed after the sage
[47:41] has left she tells Shiva that boy needs
[47:44] to learn
[47:46] manners he's become hotty like a camel
[47:49] walks around with his nose high in the
[47:53] air then Shiva of course knows that he
[47:57] he's innocent so no he should show you
[48:01] proper respect you are the god of the
[48:03] universe I'll teach him
[48:06] respect so she goes to the sage Shuka
[48:10] and says be thou a camel the Divine
[48:14] mother is in charge of the universe
[48:15] whatever she wants names and
[48:18] forms what is Shiva existence
[48:21] awareness and everything in else in this
[48:23] universe all names and forms and
[48:25] activities is the Divine mother shaki so
[48:27] she says you give up this Sage name and
[48:30] form and you become a camel and
[48:32] immediately was transformed into a
[48:34] camel then she happily went back to her
[48:37] Divine aboard after some time she's the
[48:39] mother you know so she felt bad and she
[48:41] was saying saying to Shiva I wonder how
[48:43] that boy is doing I mean he must be
[48:45] suffering he was such a great Sage now
[48:47] he's a camel
[48:49] um Shea said sh knew that after some
[48:52] time her annoyance will go away after
[48:54] all she has a tender heart so she says
[48:56] why don't you go and take a look so she
[48:58] goes and she says she sees this camel
[49:01] chewing on tny bushes and says well how
[49:05] are things going with you and camel can
[49:07] of course speak in perfect Sanskrit so
[49:10] the camel the sage who was the camel
[49:13] replied ah um uh wonderful you know I
[49:17] suddenly became a camel I do not know
[49:19] why but uh things are really good now
[49:22] what do you mean things are really good
[49:24] well when I was a sage you know I had
[49:26] all these silly brahmacharis to teach
[49:29] the I had to teach them vanta now I
[49:32] don't have to teach anybody I'm so free
[49:34] and I go wherever I like I eat whatever
[49:37] I like I don't have to follow the rules
[49:39] of the you know the the monastery and
[49:41] the asham I'm I'm Carefree now the
[49:45] original Hindi version which I
[49:47] heard was much more crude he said
[49:50] basically it said I pee wherever I
[49:54] like the Divine mother said oh this was
[49:57] not the intended
[50:00] result and in exasperation she said okay
[50:02] be a sage again and so he immediately
[50:04] became a s they strugg okay
[50:08] now the names and
[50:11] forms camel name and form or a human
[50:14] name and form none of them have any
[50:17] impact on the one who knows I am
[50:19] limitless
[50:20] awareness just a story to show that
[50:24] so um not a slightest bit will you be
[50:28] affected by the change of you the
[50:30] Consciousness the knower of the field
[50:32] changes in the field do not affect the
[50:34] noer of the field this is the point
[50:37] Shankar aara uses this again and again
[50:39] he has said in another place he goes on
[50:41] to say that um um all the water in a
[50:46] mirage cannot wet a single grain of sand
[50:50] of the desert in the desert there's a
[50:52] mirage it looks like water where there's
[50:54] no water now all the water in that looks
[50:56] like a an oasis shining with water
[50:59] glittering with water but if you go
[51:01] there there's not even a single drop of
[51:03] water there one grain of sand of that
[51:05] desert will not be wetted by the water
[51:07] so all the sufferings of the world all
[51:11] the ups and downs of Life leave you
[51:14] completely
[51:15] unscathed remember they will not stop is
[51:19] not escapism when knowing this thing you
[51:21] will not be delivered from the results
[51:24] of past Karma they will keep on
[51:25] appearing as our life what we call our
[51:27] life but you'll be as Krishna says in
[51:30] the Bhagavad
[51:31] Gita attaining which nothing greater
[51:34] remains to be attained centered in which
[51:38] centered in which the greatest of
[51:40] Sorrows cannot shake
[51:50] you settled in which the heaviest of
[51:53] Sorrows cannot shake you that means
[51:55] Sorrows will come
[51:58] even in the lives of saints old age will
[52:00] come disease will come SRI ramak Krishna
[52:01] got cancer throat cancer but it cannot
[52:03] shake
[52:04] you once Swami turian in his old many
[52:08] diseases were there in the body in
[52:09] Banaras in the shasham there somebody
[52:12] asked him that about his suffering and
[52:14] he says why do you see in Bengali he
[52:16] said B Rog Jala the burning and the
[52:19] disease externally why do you see the
[52:23] external burning in the disease
[52:27] do you not see you do not see internally
[52:29] I am all it's like ice inside it's like
[52:32] ice
[52:34] inside you become like ice inside means
[52:36] you're completely Untouched by the
[52:42] external I mentioned few days back in
[52:45] some context Swami
[52:47] shivananda he was President second
[52:49] president of our order afflicted by
[52:51] asthma asmatic attack and the whole
[52:53] night he had suffered next in the
[52:55] morning was very calm and then people
[52:57] asked him what happened the other monks
[52:59] in the morning they came and the old
[53:00] Swami said at night it felt my breath
[53:03] was going away I couldn't breathe
[53:05] everything seemed stopped I couldn't had
[53:06] no Comfort lying down or sitting up you
[53:09] know asthmatic patients you make them
[53:10] sit up with support with the pillow
[53:12] nothing was giving me Comfort so finally
[53:14] I despaired of life itself so I sat in
[53:16] meditation here up to that point any
[53:18] asmatic patient will agree the next part
[53:21] of it is different he says I sat in
[53:23] meditation and plunged into the
[53:25] Stillness within and and slowly the
[53:27] external world and the body and its
[53:29] suffering disappeared when I came back
[53:32] to this awareness of the external World
[53:33] The Suffering of the body had gone down
[53:35] a lot you know if we step back you you
[53:38] see the body and its suffering flower
[53:41] and its pinkness they belong together
[53:43] the body and suffering belong together I
[53:44] am fine one interesting consequence is
[53:47] the suffering also goes down after some
[53:49] time it's
[53:51] interesting so then somebody a monk
[53:54] asked him what is that you meditated
[53:55] where did you become still he said says
[53:57] that's the
[53:59] atan so he says here not the least bit
[54:03] you the knower will be affected by the
[54:05] if you're not the the field the
[54:07] characteristics of the field the
[54:08] sufferings which are in the field will
[54:09] not affect you the knower of the field
[54:11] even when they are
[54:15] appearing you're almost out of time I'll
[54:18] make see this goes on and on like this
[54:20] one more little argument and then I'll
[54:22] stop and we'll take a couple of
[54:24] questions an important question comes up
[54:26] next
[54:27] the opponent okay two more things the
[54:30] opponent says okay I get the point but
[54:32] still your examples are
[54:35] bad they are objects they belong to the
[54:39] field so remember what was what was his
[54:42] original object objection you are
[54:44] confusing one thing which is the field
[54:46] with another thing which is in the field
[54:47] two objects you're confusing but now you
[54:49] are using that example to say the
[54:51] confusion between the object and the
[54:52] subject so that example does not apply
[54:54] here even though I see your logic what
[54:56] you want to show then Shankar aara says
[54:58] let's see two points here first of all
[55:01] the example is only meant the only point
[55:03] of the example is to show the effect of
[55:05] ignorance and
[55:08] superimposition just as not knowing the
[55:10] difference between the pink flower and
[55:12] the the transparent water from a
[55:14] distance you might be fooled into
[55:16] thinking the water has become pink
[55:18] because you of ignorance and the
[55:19] transference apparent transference of
[55:21] the pink color of the flower into the
[55:23] transparent water like that all I'm
[55:26] trying to to say here is here also
[55:28] there's ignorance about our real nature
[55:29] as Limitless Consciousness and an
[55:31] apparent transfer of the qualities of uh
[55:35] the body mind into
[55:37] Consciousness that's all so I'm not
[55:40] bringing in object subject all those
[55:42] things I'm bringing I'm not bringing it
[55:44] here now you might say the opponent
[55:47] waving his no but still but still it's
[55:50] still not a good example then Shankar
[55:52] aara really hits back he said but you do
[55:56] it all the
[55:57] time didn't you again he's pinning them
[56:00] down don't you all believe that you are
[56:03] really not the body mind not the body
[56:05] because the body dies old age and
[56:07] disease the death belong to the body and
[56:09] you go on from Lifetime to Lifetime you
[56:11] all believe that and yet you believe
[56:13] that people you see that people say I'm
[56:15] getting old and I'm going to die or I am
[56:17] sick and how do you explain that you do
[56:19] the same thing that the old age and
[56:21] sickness of the body you mistakenly
[56:23] taking upon yourself The Immortal Soul
[56:25] you're doing the same thing
[56:28] why fault me it's a principle of debate
[56:30] if I have a fault I can't accuse anybody
[56:32] else of the same fault so it's not a
[56:34] fault if both parties accepted
[56:37] fine now the opponent comes back with a
[56:41] I promise this is the last one I am
[56:42] having
[56:44] fun last argument though the I just
[56:48] wanted to create a taste for Shankar's
[56:50] commentary you can go further and look
[56:51] into it lot of wonderful things are
[56:53] there in this particular commentary next
[56:55] one is a deep one um argument AR the
[56:58] question the objection
[57:00] is okay let's take a step
[57:03] back you are saying this is all because
[57:06] of
[57:07] ignorance shankara says yes that's some
[57:10] suffering and you know trans apparent
[57:12] transfer of qualities upon yourself and
[57:15] samsara and all of this is because of
[57:17] ignorance and it will be solved by
[57:18] knowledge yes so you are saying that the
[57:22] self Atman pure Consciousness has
[57:25] ignorance
[57:28] at least that much if Shankar says has
[57:30] no ignorance then the whole argument
[57:32] falls apart and if he says it has
[57:34] ignorance then you have to attribute
[57:35] ignorance to the Atman the self Atman
[57:37] knower of the field has ignorance in
[57:40] that
[57:42] case wouldn't you agree and shankara
[57:45] says
[57:47] Nope but you just said it's all because
[57:50] of ignorance and shankara gives this
[57:52] arguments first of all
[57:54] visha ignorance is also known and the
[57:59] ignorance also belongs to the field
[58:01] after all where is ignorance it's in the
[58:02] mind not in pure
[58:05] Consciousness what do you mean ignorance
[58:07] is known everybody has this experience I
[58:10] do not know
[58:13] XYZ I do not know we all say I don't
[58:17] know that means you are you are aware of
[58:19] your own ignorance if you're aware of it
[58:21] you are not ignorant you are the
[58:22] Consciousness which is illumining the
[58:24] ignorance in the
[58:25] mind so ignorance is in the field not in
[58:28] the no of the field one point second
[58:33] um ignorance shankaracharya says is an
[58:36] ER is a is a defect to be
[58:40] corrected and the defect is always in an
[58:43] instrument so he gives the example of
[58:46] cataracts what does cataracts do in the
[58:48] eye the cataracts in the eye Shankar AAR
[58:51] says um aat it veils the world you see
[58:55] as if through a Mist into the world it's
[58:57] not very clear then you sometimes make
[59:00] actual
[59:01] mistakes you don't see things which are
[59:03] there you're making
[59:05] mistakes and these cataracts can be
[59:07] cleaned where are the cataracts cleaned
[59:09] from from you or from your eyes uh does
[59:13] the doctor come and start scraping
[59:15] Consciousness or the the Eye eyeballs
[59:18] the
[59:19] eyeballs the cataracts are clean from
[59:21] the eyes not from
[59:24] Consciousness so the instrument
[59:27] has to be cleansed so similarly
[59:29] ignorance is a defect
[59:31] do and the defect is always in the
[59:35] instrument ignorance is a defect defect
[59:37] is always an instrument and the defect
[59:39] can be cleansed by knowledge knowledge
[59:41] also comes in the
[59:44] mind it arises in the mind and removes
[59:47] the existing ignorance and then that
[59:49] also disappears Consciousness alone
[59:52] remains so so because it's do it's it's
[59:57] a it's a defect third
[1:00:01] an ignorance is not ultimately there the
[1:00:05] enlightened person will say in pure
[1:00:07] Consciousness Brahman Atman there is no
[1:00:10] ignorance ignorance is not there
[1:00:12] therefore it was never there in the self
[1:00:16] it was there in one of the projections
[1:00:17] of the self which is mind some it was
[1:00:20] there but not in the self
[1:00:22] itself and the self is aanga just like
[1:00:27] clouds may appear in the Sky Dust may
[1:00:29] appear in the sky space is not touched
[1:00:32] by
[1:00:33] clouds
[1:00:35] so you know if if you go through a cloud
[1:00:38] you'll feel clammmy and I don't know if
[1:00:40] you had experienced this I experienced
[1:00:42] it's surprising first time in India
[1:00:45] there's places like diling which is a
[1:00:47] hill station I still remember my
[1:00:49] surprise as little kid when I opened the
[1:00:52] window uh and a cloud entered through
[1:00:54] the window
[1:00:56] and it passed through one window and it
[1:00:58] got went off it through the other window
[1:01:00] and left everything feeling slightly
[1:01:01] clammmy and
[1:01:03] cold uh but the cloud does not make the
[1:01:07] sky space clammmy and
[1:01:10] cold similarly um Consciousness is not
[1:01:14] affected in the least Consciousness is
[1:01:16] unattached Aang everything arises is
[1:01:19] illumined and it settles back disappears
[1:01:22] into Consciousness without in the least
[1:01:25] affecting Consciousness itself so
[1:01:28] because of these reasons it's a defect
[1:01:31] it's an object of experience part of the
[1:01:34] field uh it's uh it is impermanent at
[1:01:38] ultimately after Enlightenment there is
[1:01:40] no ignorance at all so it can't be a
[1:01:43] part of of the self if it was part of
[1:01:45] pure Consciousness ignorance then it
[1:01:47] would always be there but it isn't it
[1:01:50] comes and goes and finally pure
[1:01:52] Consciousness is completely unaffected
[1:01:54] by the object just like the sky is
[1:01:57] unaffected by clouds or mist or dust
[1:01:59] because of these reasons even when we
[1:02:01] say there is ignorance it has no effect
[1:02:04] on you the pure Consciousness still has
[1:02:06] to be
[1:02:07] removed so these are some of the
[1:02:10] arguments it goes on one argument will
[1:02:12] come one question will come after all of
[1:02:14] this much
[1:02:15] later the opponent gets flustered and
[1:02:18] says but if I am Brahman then who is
[1:02:22] ignorant who is ignorant and Shankar's
[1:02:25] answer is very interesting he says why
[1:02:26] are you
[1:02:27] asking I'm asking because I don't know
[1:02:30] so you are
[1:02:36] ignorant all right yes uh can we have
[1:02:40] the microphone a few
[1:02:43] questions yes you can get bring the
[1:02:45] basket forward
[1:02:47] also raise your hand and he can see you
[1:02:50] and tell us your name and ask the
[1:02:52] question oh yeah oh uh
[1:02:56] Swami G I'm anandi um by this last logic
[1:03:02] where by removing the defect or
[1:03:05] correcting the ignorance knowledge can
[1:03:07] come or the defect is removed and
[1:03:09] knowledge comes knowledge is generated
[1:03:11] defect is remove ignorance is REM yes so
[1:03:13] theoretically there could be two knowers
[1:03:16] then why two noers because if the
[1:03:18] ignorance is in the mind and knowledge
[1:03:20] comes in the mind you have a know in the
[1:03:22] mind and you have a know know of the
[1:03:24] knowing mind
[1:03:27] all right so let's not bring ignorance
[1:03:29] it's it's theoretically possible to have
[1:03:32] that um let's not bring ignorance and
[1:03:35] knowledge into it but are there two
[1:03:37] noers if you ask us question directly
[1:03:39] are can there be two noers or are there
[1:03:40] two noers
[1:03:42] yes it appears to be so it appears to be
[1:03:47] so why I'm saying this is very subtle
[1:03:50] and very
[1:03:52] important insight into vant knowledge
[1:03:56] when you say knowledge it means two
[1:03:59] things
[1:04:01] and there is a way in which we are
[1:04:04] knowers all of us are knowers right now
[1:04:07] using the mind and the senses when we
[1:04:08] say I think I see I hear I smell I touch
[1:04:13] we are
[1:04:14] knowers but there is another way in
[1:04:16] which we are knowers as the ever
[1:04:18] presentes non-flickering eye the
[1:04:21] Consciousness the I am that is
[1:04:24] choicelessly it's not an activity see
[1:04:26] the the other knower is an
[1:04:28] activity and this this knower which says
[1:04:30] I think I know I smell I touch I
[1:04:34] understand I remember I forget I desire
[1:04:36] I hurt I
[1:04:38] enjoy this one is
[1:04:42] changeable no here the knower is active
[1:04:46] it uses instruments of knowledge to know
[1:04:48] objects it's called triti I the knower
[1:04:51] using an instrument eyes I see there is
[1:04:55] something or somebody that I see object
[1:04:57] of knowledge there's an instrument of
[1:04:59] knowledge the eyes and there's one who's
[1:05:01] using the instrument of knowledge I the
[1:05:03] person the ja sentient being this is one
[1:05:06] kind of knowing this is the most common
[1:05:08] form I go to university and I study a
[1:05:11] course so I I borrow books and uh or you
[1:05:15] know read the handouts that's an object
[1:05:18] of knowledge and I'm using the senses
[1:05:20] and the mind as an instrument and I am
[1:05:23] the knower so that that is called the
[1:05:27] The Knowing through the mind or another
[1:05:29] name is prata the knower using
[1:05:32] instruments of knowledge PR to know
[1:05:34] objects of knowledge and that's the
[1:05:36] usual way we all operate but there is
[1:05:39] also in the background always I the ever
[1:05:42] present
[1:05:44] awareness now these two are very
[1:05:46] different the sakshi and the prata
[1:05:48] sakshi pure Consciousness witness prata
[1:05:51] noer these two are very different in
[1:05:54] what sense look at the difference
[1:05:56] the knower prata is active it does
[1:05:59] things it knows it does not know it
[1:06:02] focuses on one thing it focuses in the
[1:06:04] other thing it can see hear smell taste
[1:06:07] it can think it can remember it can um
[1:06:10] understand intellectualize conceptualize
[1:06:12] but the sakshi it's only one thing it
[1:06:16] shines what's the relationship between
[1:06:19] these two relationship is it's like the
[1:06:22] Sun and the Moon notice the moonlight
[1:06:26] the Moonlight is variable there are
[1:06:28] phases of the moon full moon and half
[1:06:32] moon and dark New Moon day but also
[1:06:36] notice the Moonlight is entirely
[1:06:38] dependent on the sunlight the Moonlight
[1:06:40] is nothing but the sunlight so this
[1:06:42] prata the knower the usual knower we are
[1:06:44] all acquainted with is lit up powered by
[1:06:48] sakshi pure
[1:06:51] Consciousness um it is the light pure
[1:06:55] Consciousness is the light which lights
[1:06:56] up the noer by light of the lights Joi
[1:07:00] the light which shining the noer
[1:07:04] shines that shining everything else
[1:07:06] shines by its
[1:07:08] light that being L lit up everything
[1:07:10] shines after it that means sakshi pure
[1:07:13] Consciousness in adic terms there two
[1:07:16] ter there are two terms um
[1:07:20] the the laksh and the
[1:07:26] V is the the direct meaning when you say
[1:07:29] when Krishna says knower of the field
[1:07:31] the direct meaning is I you just right
[1:07:34] now what we are the usual knower which
[1:07:36] we are lak means the implied meaning the
[1:07:38] real meaning pure
[1:07:40] Consciousness the pure Consciousness
[1:07:42] alone you can say aham Brasi this
[1:07:45] particular knowah you cannot say I'm
[1:07:46] brahmasmi particular knowah there are
[1:07:48] many 8 billion there many but when
[1:07:51] Krishna says I am the knower of the
[1:07:53] field in all beings he's talking about
[1:07:55] pure consciousness
[1:07:56] so these two are there when you now what
[1:08:00] is vant trying to do vant is first of
[1:08:02] all introducing us to our nature as pure
[1:08:05] Consciousness and then telling us to
[1:08:08] shift the reference of the eye from the
[1:08:11] knower the pramata the direct meaning of
[1:08:14] the word nor of the field to the implied
[1:08:17] meaning to the sakshi to Pure
[1:08:18] Consciousness you shift it's already
[1:08:20] available you notice what you are
[1:08:27] now a very subtle Point here if you try
[1:08:31] to do it you'll
[1:08:32] fail the no prata has an objective
[1:08:37] component has part of the field is
[1:08:40] included in the noer mind and the senses
[1:08:43] so the way to realize yourself as sakshi
[1:08:46] is by denying your pramata nature I not
[1:08:50] the body not the senses not the mind not
[1:08:53] the intellect not even the ego the noer
[1:08:56] then only you can say I am the witness
[1:09:02] Consciousness I'm not the mind not the
[1:09:04] intellect not the memory not the
[1:09:09] ego is shifting from the pramata to the
[1:09:13] sakshi
[1:09:15] okay the gentleman here and then you
[1:09:18] come to the lady
[1:09:19] here uh I'm abishek yes so uh the
[1:09:24] question that I have is if the field and
[1:09:26] the noer of the field are different and
[1:09:29] the noer of the field does not the field
[1:09:31] does not belong to the noer of the field
[1:09:33] yes my body is the field yes as a knower
[1:09:37] of the field why should I assume the
[1:09:39] responsibility of taking care of the
[1:09:41] field that means
[1:09:44] why as an as the knower of the field
[1:09:48] should I assume the responsibility that
[1:09:50] I need to feed the field water the field
[1:09:53] attend to the field and the needs of
[1:09:55] this field
[1:09:56] yeah to when you come to that state of
[1:09:59] that I am the know of the field and
[1:10:00] you're completely settled there settled
[1:10:04] in that then you actually won't even
[1:10:06] need it it will continue by the wish of
[1:10:08] the Lord as it is continuing now also
[1:10:11] you think I have taken responsibility
[1:10:12] for this body actually I haven't it is
[1:10:14] the Lord who has taken
[1:10:16] responsibility today I have to feed
[1:10:18] myself and wash myself and um take care
[1:10:21] of myself one little
[1:10:24] stroke land up in in um ICU nothing I
[1:10:29] can do then this particular field itself
[1:10:31] not my it will not obey even the
[1:10:33] slightest command paralyzed full body
[1:10:38] paralysis but it can help knowledge will
[1:10:41] help here I am the witness Consciousness
[1:10:45] identified with the mind and body I
[1:10:46] thought I was in charge of this field
[1:10:48] and I was doing lots of things now it
[1:10:50] has failed me I'm still the witness
[1:10:52] Consciousness the field is appearing as
[1:10:54] a degenerating dying field here Here I
[1:10:56] Am the witness Consciousness not
[1:10:57] affected and this is something that I
[1:11:00] experienced today one gentleman called
[1:11:04] from I will not name uh he has a
[1:11:07] degenerative disease and uh he
[1:11:12] is you
[1:11:16] know death is coming it's towards the
[1:11:18] end of life is um and he's being taken
[1:11:22] care of in a hospice but the gentleman
[1:11:24] wanted to speak to me
[1:11:26] and they put me on a video call with him
[1:11:29] and he said now at this stage he can't
[1:11:33] move his body anymore his wife is taking
[1:11:36] care of him elderly gentlemen now at
[1:11:39] this stage the teachings of viant are
[1:11:41] most profound for me so much peace Swami
[1:11:46] you such strong voice Swami you don't
[1:11:49] know what this knowledge is to me now
[1:11:51] and to others like
[1:11:53] me it's only this to fall back back upon
[1:11:56] I can see it's true so you are the
[1:11:58] witness as you always
[1:12:00] were now just this part of the field is
[1:12:03] no longer responsive to the that knower
[1:12:06] of the field but I am the background
[1:12:08] awareness always was is will continue to
[1:12:10] be one day maybe this body very soon
[1:12:12] will die and go away and other fields
[1:12:15] will appear before me I'm still the same
[1:12:17] know of the
[1:12:18] field it helps it that's a demonstration
[1:12:22] to me for somebody who at that point in
[1:12:25] great suffering at the point of death
[1:12:29] can say with confidence I'm fine and
[1:12:32] this knowledge is the thing that help
[1:12:36] me
[1:12:40] yes another time it happened uh several
[1:12:43] years back six or seven years back at
[1:12:45] that time Skype was I used people
[1:12:48] sometimes wanted to speak with me and I
[1:12:49] would sort of avoid it because there too
[1:12:51] many people wanting to speak so this
[1:12:53] lady she said I wanted I want to speak
[1:12:55] with you about something send a message
[1:12:57] I said okay we'll see when sometime and
[1:12:59] she wrote back it was very clear no
[1:13:01] question of seeing sometime because I'm
[1:13:03] going to die I'm going to live for I I
[1:13:05] mean within the next two weeks I'll be
[1:13:07] gone so I want to speak to and of course
[1:13:08] I had I said yes I spoke with this lady
[1:13:11] who was in a hospice um what is it
[1:13:14] called paliative care in Canada and she
[1:13:16] was attended to her by her uh
[1:13:19] niece and what calmness what dignity
[1:13:23] please ask some questions about her
[1:13:25] spirit spiritual life he had practiced
[1:13:27] vidanta and Buddhism in her life and at
[1:13:30] the final the last conversation I had
[1:13:33] with her two three conversations I had I
[1:13:36] said I hope when my time comes I can be
[1:13:39] so calm and dignified she laughed and
[1:13:40] she said I'm sure you will be see at
[1:13:43] that point there's no need to she has
[1:13:46] she has no need to hide or speak
[1:13:49] politely you know you'll become all
[1:13:51] right you will she knows I'm going to
[1:13:53] die within a few days calm and you know
[1:13:58] dignified next call did not come 2 3
[1:14:01] days later her niece called me and said
[1:14:03] my aunt passed away and your calls
[1:14:06] really helped her and I'll tell you
[1:14:08] Swami when she passed this room was like
[1:14:10] a meditation room it became so still and
[1:14:13] quiet I sat with her body for some time
[1:14:15] and it become like that in the last few
[1:14:18] uh hours of her life so this is how it
[1:14:21] helps yes Namaste Swami G thank you
[1:14:24] first of all the examples that you bring
[1:14:27] to the lectures they're very helpful
[1:14:28] tell us your name uh my name is SDA and
[1:14:31] the question I have is a few lectures
[1:14:33] ago you introduced the concept of I'm
[1:14:35] not the body I'm not the mind and I
[1:14:37] started to ruminate on that and
[1:14:39] sometimes I feel I'm able to create some
[1:14:41] sort of psychological Gap and I get
[1:14:44] excited or I know excitement and then as
[1:14:47] soon as I experience it then I feel oh
[1:14:52] who is creating that psychological Gap
[1:14:55] it's probably mine and then the whole
[1:14:56] feeling and the Gap also everything goes
[1:14:59] away and this just keeps on happening so
[1:15:01] then how do I experientially resolve
[1:15:04] this when that experience comes that you
[1:15:07] feel a gap and a kind of Joy that's one
[1:15:10] step second when the doubt
[1:15:13] comes the excitement comes the doubt
[1:15:16] comes note that I am free of the
[1:15:18] excitement I was am free now and will be
[1:15:22] free the excitement has come and we'll
[1:15:23] go away when the doubt comes he say
[1:15:26] isn't it the mind which is doing all of
[1:15:28] this but clearly that's also an
[1:15:31] experience the doubt was you were there
[1:15:33] illumining the absence of the doubt now
[1:15:35] the doubt has arisen the doubt will
[1:15:37] disappear you were there all
[1:15:40] throughout ask yourself does the doubt
[1:15:44] reveal itself or you reveal the
[1:15:47] doubt you reveal the doubt what is the
[1:15:50] mind that mental formulation of the
[1:15:52] doubt isn't it the mind that's the
[1:15:55] that's the part of the part of the
[1:15:57] experience which is called mind but the
[1:15:59] experience of
[1:16:01] it I am experiencing doubt by what light
[1:16:04] are you experiencing doubt by you the
[1:16:06] light Shankar says here
[1:16:11] itself whoever denies the at it's the at
[1:16:16] of that very
[1:16:17] denier it's because of that you are this
[1:16:20] awareness that you are able to doubt the
[1:16:22] awareness
[1:16:24] also you're able to witness the
[1:16:26] functioning of the Mind the presence of
[1:16:29] conviction and the absence of conviction
[1:16:32] are both illumined by you the atan that
[1:16:34] gives you even stronger
[1:16:37] conviction how do I hold on to that
[1:16:40] don't hold on don't hold on I remember
[1:16:43] one of the greatest monks who I I heard
[1:16:45] teaching this ramanand sarasti whom I
[1:16:48] attended some classes by him young monk
[1:16:50] asked him and after a long discussion
[1:16:53] just like this back and forth opponent
[1:16:56] he
[1:16:57] said but ah Brasi I am brah this I am
[1:17:00] this aware this witness at least that
[1:17:02] much we must hold on to and then the
[1:17:04] Swami he with great you know excitement
[1:17:07] he said that's what you must not hold on
[1:17:09] to as long as you hold on to that it's a
[1:17:12] practice and something that the mind is
[1:17:14] doing that you are snna how much
[1:17:17] practice are you putting into it I have
[1:17:18] to hold on at least to I'm SN I'm SN
[1:17:20] little background
[1:17:22] like the tanpura it must go on otherwise
[1:17:25] I may forget I'm you have no tension
[1:17:27] about forgetting that you are snika you
[1:17:29] don't even think about it do you
[1:17:31] practice morning 1 hour I am snika and
[1:17:33] evening 1 hour I'm SN
[1:17:37] no earlier you said I was I I was very
[1:17:39] confident I'm SN but now I'm little
[1:17:41] doubting maybe it's the
[1:17:43] mind but I am snika is something that is
[1:17:46] imposed superimposed On You by parents
[1:17:48] or grandparents who have given you the
[1:17:50] name it's just a concept given to you
[1:17:53] that becomes so effortless imagine the
[1:17:55] witness of the Mind how effortless it
[1:17:58] is there can be no doubt about
[1:18:01] it don't try to hold on to it
[1:18:06] also here is a clue when you do not
[1:18:09] think of any vant when you not even
[1:18:12] thinking I am that witness Consciousness
[1:18:14] I am the knower of the field I am pure
[1:18:16] conscious not even none of that mind is
[1:18:18] not doing any vant at all mind is
[1:18:20] completely involved in whatever we doing
[1:18:22] in the
[1:18:23] world ask yourself that question later
[1:18:26] in all the time when I just last few
[1:18:29] hours had completely forgotten vant was
[1:18:31] I having experiences or
[1:18:33] not was I seeing hearing smelling
[1:18:36] tasting was I enjoying
[1:18:39] suffering by what light that light
[1:18:42] that's choiceless that is not there
[1:18:44] because of vanta vant just reveals it I
[1:18:48] am
[1:18:53] that um the lady here
[1:18:55] and then the gentleman there we'll stop
[1:18:57] after
[1:18:58] that yeah uh I'm Kiran so chrna
[1:19:03] here um as you mentioned prata is the
[1:19:06] apparent noer right and is the noer but
[1:19:10] then the witness of that is the real no
[1:19:12] you have to shift the reference of the
[1:19:14] ey from the prata to the saki that does
[1:19:16] not mean the prata the no will disappear
[1:19:18] of course it'll be there even after
[1:19:19] realizing and pure Consciousness what
[1:19:20] will go on everything will go on you
[1:19:22] will still be very happily able to see
[1:19:24] hear smell taste think enjoy suffer but
[1:19:27] at a deeper level you will see that you
[1:19:28] are not suffering you're fine M yes yeah
[1:19:32] so but uh sakshi Orna is mentioned
[1:19:37] because pramata depends on pure
[1:19:39] Consciousness that's why pure
[1:19:40] Consciousness
[1:19:42] absolutely and can we also say likea is
[1:19:47] ganam
[1:19:49] because that's the only thing that self
[1:19:52] ever has ganam ganam means knowledge so
[1:19:54] this ganam can be understood in two ways
[1:19:56] as this empirical knowledge which is
[1:19:58] what the pramata is doing as pure
[1:20:00] Consciousness or witness Consciousness
[1:20:02] that's Al so the the word used in
[1:20:03] Sanskrit
[1:20:06] isana is G knowledge with the movements
[1:20:09] of the Mind the usual wayy understand
[1:20:11] knowledge but swarupa is pure
[1:20:14] Consciousness thank viand said it's not
[1:20:18] that it knows it is knowledge it means
[1:20:20] atan the self it's not that it knows it
[1:20:23] is knowledge itself what do you mean
[1:20:25] knowledge itself Consciousness basically
[1:20:27] last the gentleman there you raised your
[1:20:29] hand can you just raise your hand and
[1:20:31] he'll bring the microphone to you tell
[1:20:33] us your name and ask the question I'm
[1:20:35] Karan uh we started with uh the distance
[1:20:38] between the knower and the known yes and
[1:20:41] then towards the end we said ignorance
[1:20:43] of witness Consciousness is the field so
[1:20:46] it's not the noer so wouldn't the
[1:20:48] knowledge of being witness Consciousness
[1:20:51] also not be the Noah yes you're right
[1:20:55] and then you say what good is that yes
[1:20:59] what does what does the knowledge in
[1:21:01] knowledge is also in the field knowledge
[1:21:02] is in the mind ignorance is in the mind
[1:21:04] all knowledge is in the mind then what
[1:21:06] good does all this do it points towards
[1:21:09] you the knowah the witness Consciousness
[1:21:12] the knowledge in the mind I am raah I'm
[1:21:15] pure
[1:21:16] Consciousness the nature of pure
[1:21:18] Consciousness that's in the mind it
[1:21:19] clears up the ignorance which has
[1:21:21] resulted in the superimposition I am
[1:21:23] Body Mind it clear distinguishes the
[1:21:26] field from the know of the field and
[1:21:28] this distinguishing also happens in the
[1:21:30] field itself you are the Watcher of of
[1:21:34] both ignorance and knowledge but once
[1:21:36] knowledge comes the field the knowledge
[1:21:39] immediately points towards you the real
[1:21:41] real nature of and then you always knew
[1:21:44] I was
[1:21:46] this then what is this mind what did it
[1:21:49] do it's like looking into a piece of
[1:21:52] wood you see the wood you don't see
[1:21:54] yourself but then look into a mirror you
[1:21:57] see yourself you're seeing the mirror
[1:21:59] but you're seeing yourself that's what
[1:22:01] it did wood is an object the mirror is
[1:22:04] also an object but the mirror did
[1:22:05] something miraculous it point it pointed
[1:22:08] towards you the subject I mean the face
[1:22:11] so this knowledge is like that
[1:22:14] mirror it remains there and you may even
[1:22:17] take away the mirror after that but you
[1:22:19] have no more doubt I am here even
[1:22:21] without seeing it you may take away the
[1:22:22] knowledge from them the Mind may start
[1:22:24] again thinking about about the world and
[1:22:25] doing work but you know you are free you
[1:22:27] know that I'm always this I am this pure
[1:22:30] Consciousness good on that very subtle
[1:22:33] and high note let's bring this to an end
[1:22:37] om shant
[1:22:40] shant
[1:22:47] shant Krishna
