Transcript
[0:00] Hi, welcome to another episode of Pivot.
[0:03] Today I am really blessed to be joined
[0:07] by Jason Reed. He's a serial
[0:09] entrepreneur, a philanthropist, and he
[0:11] has had many different pivots in his
[0:14] life.
[0:15] Some that will be jaw-dropping and
[0:16] shockers of how he's navigated through
[0:18] some of the things that are unthinkable,
[0:21] including the loss of his 14-year-old
[0:23] son.
[0:24] But his story doesn't start there. It
[0:26] starts way earlier. And I'm going to
[0:29] learn along with you. The man that sits
[0:31] behind me, Jason Reed, as he shares his
[0:34] life journey and his pivots through
[0:37] time.
[0:39] >> Well, thank you, Christina.
[0:41] Um
[0:43] usually when I do a podcast these days,
[0:44] I'm mainly talking about my work with
[0:47] mental health and my son Ryan.
[0:49] Um and we'll get to some of that. I
[0:52] think uh
[0:54] it's been a very interesting life.
[0:56] >> Yeah.
[0:56] >> So So I'm 58 years of age.
[1:00] >> Looking great. Looking great.
[1:02] >> [laughter]
[1:03] >> Well, thank you.
[1:04] Um
[1:05] I've been working for 39 years.
[1:08] And pretty much in the same industry.
[1:11] And I I think the funnest part was, you
[1:13] know, I was here I am in the student
[1:15] painting business with students
[1:17] painting houses in the summertime 39
[1:18] years ago. So I started like for $7 an
[1:20] hour in high school.
[1:21] >> Okay.
[1:22] >> And I worked my way through the company
[1:23] in a couple years and then I ended up
[1:25] coming down to California from Canada.
[1:27] And that's one of probably my very first
[1:28] pivot is I'm going I'm going to drop out
[1:30] of school, take this job, they're going
[1:32] to get me a visa because back then it
[1:34] was really easy to get a visa. Um
[1:36] I had special skills in this business of
[1:38] some sort, right? That they the lawyers
[1:39] figured out.
[1:40] >> Yeah. Yeah, extraordinary skills visa.
[1:42] >> Extraordinary skills, right? [laughter]
[1:43] So here I am on my 20 I'm 21.
[1:46] I I get the call that we want to have
[1:48] you come down here. So I'm like, all
[1:49] right, ready to go.
[1:51] So I end up breaking up with my
[1:53] girlfriend,
[1:54] telling my parents that weekend I'm
[1:55] leaving for California,
[1:57] packing up everything I fit into my Audi
[2:00] GT G7, whatever the heck the old Audi
[2:02] was, right? And I drove across
[2:05] California across the country.
[2:06] >> Well, and and you dropped out of school,
[2:08] too.
[2:08] >> out of school.
[2:09] >> What were you studying before that?
[2:10] >> Oh, I I would say that
[2:12] I wasn't studying anything because my
[2:14] cumulative GPA was a 0.7.
[2:15] >> Okay, okay. So, you were in school, but
[2:18] you
[2:18] So, this was like a nice calling cuz you
[2:20] weren't you were in school because you
[2:22] were supposed to be in school.
[2:23] >> to get kicked out of school.
[2:24] >> Yeah.
[2:24] >> I mean, literally like days away from
[2:26] getting kicked out of school.
[2:27] So, I come to California and the crazy
[2:29] thing is that I arrived on my 22nd
[2:31] birthday.
[2:33] I also arrived completely broke.
[2:36] >> Mhm.
[2:36] >> Because I took my last dollars to drive
[2:38] down to California, fill my ca- car up
[2:40] with gas, get a couple hotel rooms. I
[2:42] arrived here on my 22nd birthday with 50
[2:45] bucks left. Like, literally no room left
[2:47] in my on my credit [laughter] cards,
[2:48] right?
[2:49] I had $50. I used it to buy a bottle of
[2:51] Canadian Club whiskey and a bottle of
[2:53] Bailey's to meet my new roommate and my
[2:55] new boss.
[2:57] And we spend the weekend going and
[2:59] partying.
[3:00] And we go down to Tijuana and we come
[3:01] back and I successfully avoided taking
[3:03] the tab because I didn't have any money.
[3:06] And then
[3:07] Monday morning, I we're living in this
[3:09] complex and I go to meet my my boss who
[3:11] I'd known a couple of times. I don't
[3:13] know him that well.
[3:14] And I said, "I'm really excited to be
[3:15] here.
[3:16] Um I have just one little tiny issue.
[3:19] Um I need an advance of $3,500
[3:22] so that I can pay my first and last
[3:24] month's rent.
[3:26] Uh car payment is past due and have a
[3:28] little bit of cash to get through the
[3:28] month."
[3:29] >> Yeah.
[3:30] >> And I said, "This isn't your problem.
[3:32] I said, "But if you say no,
[3:35] I'm pretty much homeless."
[3:36] And I knew that when I arrived here.
[3:39] >> So, you took a risk.
[3:40] >> I took a giant risk.
[3:41] >> And and a gamble, which I think is is so
[3:43] important in life. It's so many people
[3:47] they feel that they have to have
[3:48] everything calculated and figured out.
[3:51] But
[3:52] every
[3:54] story that people are mesmerized by by
[3:58] success or perseverance or resilience or
[4:01] whatever it may be
[4:03] is people that literally just jump.
[4:07] >> Well, and I've done a lot of that.
[4:08] >> Okay, so so so so they said yes, I'm
[4:10] guessing.
[4:11] >> He said yes, and then we go on and you
[4:14] know, I'm working there this now it's
[4:15] like 1992, 1993 actually, and I'm
[4:18] working for the company.
[4:20] And you know, the two guys who own it
[4:21] don't get along very well.
[4:23] Actually, 92 they didn't get along very
[4:24] well, they split.
[4:25] >> Okay.
[4:25] >> So, my my other friend ended up with the
[4:27] company.
[4:28] It didn't go very well. So, now I'm
[4:29] coming up I'm engaged, I'm getting
[4:31] married in August of 1993.
[4:35] And in July of 1993, the company I'm
[4:36] working for goes bankrupt.
[4:40] So, my
[4:40] >> your wedding.
[4:41] >> Right before [laughter] your wedding.
[4:42] >> [sighs]
[4:43] >> Sorry, honey. I have no stability.
[4:46] >> [laughter]
[4:47] >> So,
[4:48] my partner I had at the time, my with
[4:50] Spencer who I've been with for
[4:52] ever since then.
[4:53] Um, we were working together in the
[4:54] company before. So,
[4:57] we said, well, we're just going to start
[4:58] this thing up from scratch again.
[4:59] Right? Because we know how to do it. So,
[5:01] it's it's it's the we're in the
[5:02] construction business, we know how to do
[5:03] this, let's go do it.
[5:05] So, I called my in-laws, we had no
[5:06] money.
[5:07] I called my in-laws who I barely knew
[5:09] because I I knew him and then my wife 6
[5:10] months before. I might have met them
[5:12] three times.
[5:13] I said, hey, I just want to let you
[5:14] know,
[5:15] everything's going to be good.
[5:17] I lost my job.
[5:19] I'm going to start a company. And I need
[5:21] to borrow $25,000.
[5:22] >> [laughter]
[5:27] >> Yeah. [snorts]
[5:28] >> And they said yes.
[5:29] >> And they said yes.
[5:30] >> What do you think it is that hearing
[5:33] these these two, and I'm sure there's
[5:35] going to be more of it, that gave you
[5:36] the courage to ask for help?
[5:40] Because I I find that, you know, as a
[5:41] therapist for years and things like
[5:43] that, that that's one of people's
[5:46] uh uh like biggest crutches in life that
[5:48] they they don't have the courage to just
[5:51] ask.
[5:54] >> I think people are afraid of the word
[5:55] no. I mean, it's really what it comes
[5:57] down to, right? Like I'm a sales guy by
[6:00] nature.
[6:01] >> In that student painting business, the
[6:02] one that we started off knocking on
[6:04] doors. And that business still exists
[6:05] across the United States. I still own it
[6:07] with my partners.
[6:08] But we teach kids how to knock on doors
[6:10] to get paint jobs and then sell paint
[6:12] jobs and go produce them in the
[6:13] summertime. We have
[6:14] 700 branches of that company running
[6:17] this summer.
[6:18] >> Wow.
[6:19] >> And the one thing you learn is you knock
[6:21] on doors and you ask, you know, "Would
[6:23] you like to have your house painted? Can
[6:23] I give you a free estimate?"
[6:25] And some people slam the door in your
[6:26] face and some people don't.
[6:28] >> Yeah.
[6:28] >> And most people are afraid of the word
[6:30] no.
[6:31] >> Okay.
[6:32] >> of having the word the door slammed in
[6:33] their face. But, you know, it's that
[6:34] whole What's that Gretzky thing? If you
[6:36] miss 100% of the shots you don't take?
[6:38] >> Yeah.
[6:38] >> You just have to ask.
[6:39] >> Okay.
[6:40] >> You just have to ask.
[6:41] >> that. This is This is going to be one of
[6:42] the biggest
[6:44] gifts of wisdom from this podcast, I can
[6:46] tell. And there's going to be a lot of
[6:47] them. But, always all always ask.
[6:51] >> Always ask means the worst thing people
[6:52] can say is no. And then, you know, for
[6:54] years, here we are this small company
[6:56] that's getting by with a couple million
[6:57] dollars in sales and
[6:58] >> Small company, couple million dollars in
[7:00] sales?
[7:01] >> it's a summer company, too, right? So,
[7:02] we do all our business in the
[7:03] summertime. The kids paint the houses
[7:04] for the summertime. And then we don't
[7:06] make any money between October and May
[7:08] or June.
[7:08] >> Oh, so you have to really budget.
[7:10] >> So, we had to go raise money. So,
[7:12] constantly like going and borrowing
[7:13] money and living off of credit cards and
[7:15] finding a new credit card that I could
[7:17] pay off one credit card with to get a
[7:18] bigger balance on the next credit card.
[7:19] >> Mhm.
[7:20] >> And just years of that kind of stuff
[7:23] just to get by.
[7:25] Um
[7:27] So,
[7:28] but we figured it out.
[7:31] And then I'm There's so many stories. I
[7:33] don't I don't want
[7:34] >> Yeah, no, keep going. So, so
[7:37] So, you're you're going through the
[7:38] cycle cuz you have the summer cleaning
[7:40] or summer painting business and, you
[7:42] know, the cash flow. You haven't figured
[7:44] out the cash flow game so you're you you
[7:46] know, robbing Peter to pay Paul a little
[7:48] bit and
[7:49] um
[7:50] >> Like I'm talking like Christmas Eve
[7:51] having to raise $10,000 from friends to
[7:54] make payroll.
[7:55] >> Yeah.
[7:55] >> Oh, I I Every entrepreneur has got those
[7:57] stories.
[7:57] >> Oh, I've been I've been through that
[7:59] when I had my Hollywood location. It
[8:01] would be like
[8:02] I don't know. I have 2 weeks and I have
[8:05] $30,000 I have to come up with. How am I
[8:07] going to do this?
[8:07] >> Yeah, yeah, and you just go, you figure
[8:09] it out and you
[8:10] call all your friends and say, "Yeah, I
[8:11] I know I said I'd never call you again
[8:12] for money but I need money again."
[8:14] >> Yeah. [laughter]
[8:15] And and so what what shifted or changed
[8:18] cuz you said you you'd always figured it
[8:19] out and then there was a there was a
[8:21] time when something had its pivot in
[8:22] that business or in in your cash flow
[8:25] where you didn't need to keep on
[8:26] calling, right?
[8:27] >> I mean eventually.
[8:28] >> Yeah.
[8:28] >> Eventually, but I mean any growing
[8:30] business still needs cash.
[8:31] >> Yeah.
[8:32] >> So the cash thing aside, I think the
[8:33] other fun thing that happened was, you
[8:36] know, I got a call from Mark Moses who
[8:38] was the same guy who who gave me the
[8:39] first $3,500
[8:41] and said, "Look it, I got a mortgage
[8:42] business called Platinum Capital
[8:45] and I want you to come in with Spencer
[8:47] and help me run and grow it cuz you guys
[8:49] know how to recruit train sales people
[8:51] and I want you guys to do this with me."
[8:53] >> Huh.
[8:53] >> I'm like, "Well, we already have our
[8:54] company." And he's like, "Yeah, but you
[8:57] know, do you want to stay in the
[8:58] painting business your entire life?" I'm
[8:59] like,
[9:00] "No, I always thought I'd do something
[9:01] different." "Well, come to the mortgage
[9:02] business." So we got our two new our
[9:05] Jeff and Matt who are partners now have
[9:06] been for now What's that been, you know,
[9:08] 30 plus years. We gave them half the
[9:11] company to go run it and we went to the
[9:13] mortgage company cuz that's going to be
[9:14] the new shiny thing, right?
[9:15] >> Yeah.
[9:16] >> And we arrive and that company has, you
[9:18] know, we have 30 or 40
[9:20] sales people on the floor.
[9:22] And then the next week
[9:24] Mark's partner
[9:25] decides to start his own business
[9:28] and walks off the with all all the sales
[9:30] people.
[9:31] >> Oh, wow.
[9:32] >> And we just dumped a million dollars in
[9:33] marketing
[9:35] that's in back then it was direct mail.
[9:38] And there's
[9:39] Mark and I and Spencer and a couple
[9:41] other guys staring at each other going,
[9:42] "Okay, now what the hell are we going to
[9:43] do?"
[9:44] And I don't know the mortgage business.
[9:46] >> Yeah, and you just let go of half of
[9:48] your other company.
[9:49] >> away half of my other company.
[9:50] [laughter]
[9:52] So, I'm like going,
[9:54] "Wow."
[9:55] And we got through it, you know, we
[9:56] hired we hired a whole bunch of we at
[9:58] the peak of the at the at the peak of
[9:59] that business we
[10:00] I had a hundred I was ahead of sales. I
[10:02] had a hundred eighty sales people on the
[10:03] floor answering phone calls doing
[10:05] mortgages. This is back in the one
[10:07] twenty-five days hundred twenty-five
[10:08] percent of value your house. That was in
[10:10] the in the B&C paper days. You know,
[10:12] that whole collapse of the Yeah, that
[10:14] was we were partially responsible for
[10:15] all that because that's the business we
[10:17] were in.
[10:18] >> Yeah.
[10:19] >> And then that all collapsed.
[10:21] And I'm then I'm out of business again.
[10:23] >> Wow.
[10:24] >> Cuz I left Platinum Capital. And now I'm
[10:26] going I left Platinum Capital. My other
[10:28] business is over here with with the
[10:29] guys. It's doing okay.
[10:32] But there's not really a spot for me.
[10:34] >> Mhm.
[10:35] >> So, what do I do?
[10:36] >> Yeah.
[10:37] >> But this is this is just life. I mean, I
[10:39] could go I I could give you a hundred
[10:40] stories of moments in my life that this
[10:43] is just life.
[10:44] >> But in those moments like
[10:46] okay, when you find out that this guy is
[10:48] took all of the sales people the forty
[10:50] people walking off and you have you
[10:52] know, million dollars going out in
[10:54] direct mail into people's mailboxes.
[10:56] Like
[10:57] >> Luckily, that was all Mark's money, not
[10:58] mine.
[10:58] >> Okay.
[10:59] >> [laughter]
[10:59] >> But I mean, what do you what
[11:02] what did you do in that moment? You just
[11:03] said I got we got to figure it out.
[11:05] >> We got to figure it out.
[11:06] I mean, it's like
[11:07] >> would that was like the mantra that
[11:09] always went on in your mind. We got to
[11:10] just figure it out. I'm going
[11:12] >> If some people
[11:14] Yeah.
[11:15] Here here's our I was thinking about
[11:16] this driving up. I mean,
[11:18] the difference between me and some
[11:20] people
[11:20] >> Mhm.
[11:21] >> is that I don't believe that I'm
[11:23] entitled to anything.
[11:25] Right? The world doesn't owe me a darn
[11:27] thing.
[11:28] >> Yeah.
[11:28] >> Right?
[11:29] I'm going to get up every morning and
[11:31] deal with whatever I get. And I don't
[11:34] expect
[11:35] anything good to happen to me when I
[11:37] wake up in the morning.
[11:38] >> [laughter]
[11:39] >> I don't. Like if you fast forward to
[11:41] where we are today,
[11:43] I my core company has four branded
[11:45] construction companies that employ three
[11:47] and a half, 4,000 people across the US.
[11:50] And we're relatively big company.
[11:52] >> Mhm.
[11:53] >> From where we started in the second
[11:54] bedroom of my house.
[11:55] >> Yeah.
[11:56] >> We have offices all over the country and
[11:57] we do really well.
[11:59] But
[12:00] when
[12:01] that phone rings, starts ringing at 5:00
[12:03] in the morning,
[12:04] it doesn't ring with people saying,
[12:06] "Jay, I've got great news for you."
[12:07] >> No.
[12:08] It brings with problems.
[12:10] >> It [laughter] brings with problems at
[12:11] 5:00 in the morning and it stops at 7:00
[12:13] cuz I stop answering the phone at 7:00.
[12:15] >> Yeah.
[12:15] >> But that's my expectation of my day.
[12:18] >> Mhm.
[12:18] >> It has been for 39 years.
[12:21] I'm not owed anything. I'm not owed any
[12:24] Nobody gets to say, "Hey, you know, I
[12:27] should have had this or I deserve that."
[12:29] I don't have that
[12:30] way of looking at life.
[12:31] >> Yeah.
[12:32] >> I have I view it if this is a
[12:34] simulation, which I don't think it is,
[12:35] don't get me wrong.
[12:37] >> [laughter]
[12:37] >> It might be though.
[12:38] >> Everybody else talking about the
[12:39] simulation crap. I do not believe we're
[12:40] in a simulation. But if it is, then
[12:44] they're just going to throw more and
[12:45] more and more stuff at me and see how I
[12:46] deal with it.
[12:47] >> Yeah.
[12:48] >> Right?
[12:48] >> Yeah, I mean it's like it's like when
[12:49] you play in a video game, right? A each
[12:52] level becomes harder and harder and
[12:55] like it's so
[12:57] more things continue to get thrown at
[12:59] you and the more you navigate it up.
[13:01] >> And that's how I view life.
[13:03] >> Mhm.
[13:03] >> So, if you take a look at where we are
[13:05] today, yeah, we have
[13:08] a lot of employees, we do really well,
[13:10] revenues are really high,
[13:12] and and profits are fantastic, and we're
[13:14] through all our cash flow problems, but
[13:16] it doesn't get easier when it's bigger.
[13:18] >> Yeah. If anything gets more challenging.
[13:20] >> It gets a lot more challenging, a lot
[13:21] more complicated.
[13:22] >> Yeah.
[13:22] >> And that phone is still ringing with
[13:24] complications. And so, when people look
[13:26] at where I am today and my partners are
[13:29] today, they go, "Well, you guys are so
[13:30] lucky you all this stuff." Along that
[13:33] way, though,
[13:34] what people miss
[13:36] is I failed at over 30 different
[13:39] companies that we started.
[13:40] >> Mhm.
[13:42] >> Like not one, 30.
[13:45] Like 30 things that we had started, I
[13:47] thought were going to be successful,
[13:48] that we dumped millions of dollars into,
[13:51] that didn't work out.
[13:53] >> Wow.
[13:54] See, people need to hear those kind of
[13:56] things cuz so many times people look at
[13:58] the perception of what they think
[14:00] somebody's life's at like, and they
[14:02] don't realize no,
[14:05] it you're not an {quote} {unquote}
[14:07] overnight success, it's how many times
[14:10] does it take to get there, right? How
[14:12] many failures and the failures
[14:15] it's not about falling, it's about
[14:17] getting back up. How many times you get
[14:18] back up, right? Because
[14:20] 30 times you fell, but you always got
[14:22] back up and you tried something
[14:23] different, tried something different,
[14:24] tried something different, and you
[14:26] figured it out.
[14:28] >> I but I think that's just persistence,
[14:30] right? Like
[14:31] >> Yeah.
[14:31] >> And you
[14:32] >> Persistence, resilience, and
[14:34] determination,
[14:36] plus
[14:37] the ability to learn, right? I think you
[14:39] would have to look through some of those
[14:41] and say, "What did I learn from this and
[14:43] how can I do it better next time?"
[14:45] >> I've learned absolutely nothing from
[14:46] being successful.
[14:47] >> Yeah.
[14:48] >> Zero. Not a thing.
[14:51] I've learned everything from my
[14:52] failures.
[14:53] >> Mhm.
[14:53] >> And there's been a lot of them.
[14:55] A lot of I mean,
[14:57] so many companies that we have started
[14:59] that I have Okay, this is going to be
[15:01] the one.
[15:02] And some almost took us down. Like I've
[15:03] almost been bankrupt three or four
[15:05] times.
[15:07] Didn't tell my wife, didn't tell my kids
[15:08] because that was going to do no good at
[15:10] home,
[15:10] >> Mhm.
[15:11] >> right? Going, "Okay, are we going to
[15:12] keep the house now, keep the house?" I'm
[15:14] not saying a word until I navigate my
[15:16] way through this stuff.
[15:17] >> Wow.
[15:18] >> Um because I just don't believe in
[15:19] bringing all that home,
[15:21] >> Yeah.
[15:21] >> right? And disrupting my home life and
[15:23] my wife and my kids.
[15:25] Uh so I I never did. I just worked
[15:27] through it all with my partners.
[15:29] >> Mhm.
[15:29] >> But those those things are real. I mean,
[15:32] if
[15:33] when I look at some people who have, you
[15:35] know, they started one company, maybe it
[15:36] was a tech company, they got really
[15:38] rich, and I'm not really rich, but those
[15:40] guys get really, really rich, right? And
[15:42] they've had one company, one success.
[15:44] >> Yeah.
[15:44] >> I I'm like, "Congratulations, but you
[15:46] probably haven't learned a damn thing
[15:47] >> Yeah.
[15:48] >> along the way."
[15:49] >> Yeah.
[15:49] >> I mean, maybe they did have an over 20
[15:51] years, they went through a whole bunch
[15:52] of stuff there, right?
[15:53] >> Yeah.
[15:53] >> You You just don't learn anything from
[15:56] just succeeding.
[15:57] >> No.
[15:58] >> But then again,
[15:59] I don't know any
[16:00] truly successful entrepreneur
[16:02] that doesn't have a story.
[16:04] >> Mhm.
[16:04] >> Right? If you If you read um
[16:07] uh
[16:08] the Nike book from um Phil Knight,
[16:10] >> Okay.
[16:11] >> and his story about how Nike was created
[16:13] and and was built,
[16:15] that's a wow.
[16:17] >> Yeah.
[16:18] >> As an As every entrepreneur needs to
[16:20] read that book. Cuz that man's story is
[16:23] absolutely fascinating.
[16:24] >> Yeah, I didn't I didn't ever read that
[16:26] book, but I heard a little bit of the
[16:27] story about how they were basically
[16:30] done, and then they were trying to
[16:31] convince for a new shoe for an athlete.
[16:35] >> Multiple [laughter] times. Multiple
[16:36] times. Like, I read that book and go,
[16:38] "Oh my god."
[16:40] Like,
[16:41] if you are an entrepreneur, you need to
[16:42] hear these stories, you need to read
[16:44] these stories.
[16:44] >> Mhm.
[16:45] >> Right?
[16:46] >> Even if you're just not even an
[16:47] entrepreneur going through life and
[16:49] understanding that
[16:51] you know, entrepreneur, it's easy to
[16:52] say, "Okay, this is
[16:54] success is a successful company,
[16:57] profitability, that." And you can say,
[16:59] "Okay, an entrepreneur that achieves
[17:01] that." But in life, it's the same way.
[17:03] >> Mhm.
[17:04] >> You know, uh good relationships, good
[17:07] family, um happiness, fulfillment, this.
[17:11] And in order to have that
[17:13] pinnacle, you have to also go through
[17:15] {quote} {unquote} failures that are the
[17:17] lessons that you learn.
[17:19] >> Yeah, absolutely do. I mean, everybody
[17:21] needs to understand that
[17:23] life doesn't owe you anything.
[17:24] >> Yeah.
[17:25] >> It's what you're able to do with with
[17:26] the cards you're dealt.
[17:27] >> Mhm.
[17:28] >> Right?
[17:29] And, you know, there's you know, Ben
[17:30] Horowitz from Andreessen Horowitz has
[17:32] another great book about all the stuff
[17:34] they went went through when he built his
[17:36] companies. There's so many of those
[17:37] stories out there, right?
[17:38] >> Yeah.
[17:39] >> But it's like you said, it's not just
[17:40] entrepreneurs. It's like what I try to
[17:42] tell my kids is like, you know,
[17:44] you
[17:45] you expect If you expect life to be
[17:47] amazing and you're owed something,
[17:48] you're going to be have a real rough
[17:50] time in life.
[17:51] >> Yeah.
[17:52] >> A real rough time in life.
[17:53] >> Really really rough cuz then there's no
[17:55] ownership either.
[17:56] >> Yeah.
[17:57] >> And then there's no control because if
[17:58] you feel that life owes you something,
[18:01] you don't feel like you are
[18:05] navigating your own life on some level,
[18:07] right?
[18:08] >> Absolutely.
[18:10] I mean, you I know you've gone through a
[18:11] lot.
[18:11] >> Yeah.
[18:12] >> I mean, I was I was remember when I went
[18:14] first met you at your first Hollywood
[18:16] place.
[18:16] >> Yeah.
[18:18] And both going you know, but that's
[18:19] life. We go through these ups and downs,
[18:21] roller coasters, pivots, like I'm
[18:23] calling them now.
[18:25] Um
[18:27] but those are the stories.
[18:29] Those are
[18:30] the ripple effect that we create.
[18:32] >> Yeah.
[18:33] >> And so from this serial entrepreneur, if
[18:36] we pivot a little bit more, you've had
[18:38] other things happen in your life, too.
[18:39] >> Unfortunately, yeah.
[18:40] >> You know, and I met you shortly right
[18:44] thereafter you had a
[18:47] a very pivotal moment in a tragedy that
[18:51] you were navigating with your family. Do
[18:52] you want to share some of that?
[18:58] >> Yep.
[18:59] Much easier to talk about the business
[19:00] stuff.
[19:01] >> It is.
[19:02] >> Um
[19:04] so 8 years ago,
[19:06] 8 years ago in March,
[19:08] um
[19:11] my son Ryan,
[19:13] who just turned 13,
[19:15] took his own life.
[19:18] I'm sorry, he just turned 14. He was 13,
[19:20] turned just turned 14.
[19:22] And uh
[19:24] we didn't see it coming.
[19:26] >> Mhm.
[19:27] >> We didn't talk about mental health in
[19:29] the family. We just didn't think we
[19:30] needed to.
[19:32] Um
[19:34] he was grumpy, but
[19:35] so were the other
[19:37] He was the least grumpy of my four
[19:38] teenagers.
[19:39] >> Yeah.
[19:40] >> Um
[19:41] >> Well, plus it's like that's kind of the
[19:42] phase, right? You know,
[19:44] between 12 and 14 going through that
[19:48] preteen to teenage years is some of the
[19:50] most transformational like time. It's
[19:53] the hormonal time. It's, you know, you
[19:55] you wouldn't know, right?
[19:57] >> No.
[19:58] Um
[20:00] And you know, I think the
[20:02] you look back on it and you and you
[20:04] think things are just fine. Like we,
[20:06] you know, we we spent a lot of time
[20:08] together.
[20:09] I worked I worked I traveled a lot for
[20:11] work, but when I was home, I was the guy
[20:12] who was
[20:13] with the kids. Like Ryan and I would
[20:15] watch a movie after every every night
[20:16] after dinner, we'd go down and watch
[20:17] something in the theater together,
[20:18] right? And I thought we had a close
[20:20] relationship. And he said in his notes
[20:22] he left that we did, but
[20:25] um
[20:26] I always didn't know everything.
[20:28] >> Mhm.
[20:29] >> We even had like we're the family that
[20:31] had
[20:32] family dinner every night at home.
[20:35] And family dinner meant like there was
[20:36] no
[20:38] there's no TV, there's no phones at the
[20:39] table, and you sit and you talk and you
[20:41] tell stories.
[20:42] >> Mhm.
[20:42] >> And we would tell stories
[20:45] and try to get the funniest story. And
[20:47] whoever
[20:48] had the funniest story of the dinner
[20:51] would become the dinner conversation
[20:53] that we would post on Facebook and see
[20:55] all the comments that would come out on
[20:57] the on the dinner conversation.
[20:58] >> That's so cool.
[21:00] >> And um that was just a thing we did for
[21:02] like 5 years, three No, maybe 4 years.
[21:04] Like every every So we just posted all
[21:06] these things.
[21:07] And then a couple of friends said, "You
[21:09] should turn that into a book because
[21:10] it's really they're really funny."
[21:13] So, I had Ryan the summer before he
[21:14] passed, his summer job was to take
[21:18] all the stuff off of Facebook and put
[21:20] them into a book format so we could
[21:22] publish the book.
[21:23] And the only mistake I made is I I paid
[21:25] him by the hour because he took all
[21:26] summer long to do [laughter] that.
[21:29] He wasn't dumb by any means.
[21:32] Um he was a really smart kid.
[21:34] But he he was hurting.
[21:36] >> Yeah.
[21:37] >> And he felt like
[21:40] there was no way out and no way to help
[21:42] him.
[21:45] And he took his life.
[21:47] And that's um
[21:51] >> And where was he in the order cuz you
[21:53] had
[21:54] >> He's the youngest.
[21:54] >> other He was the youngest.
[21:59] >> And um
[22:01] How does he go from
[22:04] having what you thought was a perfect
[22:06] family to having a very broken
[22:09] very broken family.
[22:12] And then um
[22:13] >> I'm sure everybody coping in different
[22:15] ways and different
[22:17] ways to heal, different ways to process,
[22:19] and
[22:20] >> Mhm.
[22:21] very very different like um
[22:27] I don't think I did it the right way.
[22:30] Um
[22:31] but I you know you can you can when that
[22:34] kind of thing happens you can
[22:36] you can crawl into a bottle.
[22:38] >> Mhm.
[22:39] >> You can go disappear to Mexico. You can
[22:41] leave your family. 85% of people get
[22:43] divorced.
[22:44] Families break up. They don't talk to
[22:45] each other. They blame each other.
[22:47] I wanted to make a difference.
[22:50] So, I went out and started my foundation
[22:52] like
[22:54] that day.
[22:55] Literally after we
[22:57] took him off life support.
[23:00] Um he'd been in the hospital for 5 days.
[23:03] We We knew he wasn't alive, but he was
[23:04] We were We were just trying.
[23:07] And um
[23:10] So, I went and started a
[23:12] I I said, "I want to start a foundation.
[23:14] I want to do What do I What do I want
[23:16] Ryan to do?" And I said, "I want to I
[23:17] want Ryan to choose life."
[23:19] And I went on GoDaddy and said,
[23:21] "chooselife.org".
[23:23] I'm like, "Gosh, it's available. It's
[23:24] $10,000, but it's available." I'm like,
[23:25] "Why is that $10,000?"
[23:27] >> Yeah.
[23:27] >> But I'm like, "I don't care." I so I
[23:28] bought it.
[23:30] And like a year and a half later
[23:32] um
[23:33] we're dealing with all the anti-abortion
[23:35] stuff. And someone said, "You know
[23:35] that's the old
[23:38] or you No, it was like Someone said to
[23:39] me, "You know that's the old
[23:40] anti-abortion site, right?" I'm going
[23:42] >> Oh.
[23:43] >> Remember when I went on chooselife.org?
[23:44] I'm like, "Oh, crap."
[23:46] >> That's why it was so expensive.
[23:47] >> Like
[23:48] I'm like, "Well, no one's no one's
[23:49] really talking about that stuff
[23:50] anymore." And then a year and a half
[23:51] later, everybody was talking about it.
[23:53] Yeah.
[23:54] Um so, we changed it to tell my story.
[23:56] And And the reason why it's
[23:58] To back up, I did
[24:01] a TEDx Talk really quickly. I did a
[24:03] second TEDx Talk. I did a Goalcast.
[24:06] It's been seen by
[24:08] I don't know, 10 12 million people, I
[24:10] guess. Um
[24:11] And I did a movie called Tell My Story
[24:13] with SoulPancake out of out of
[24:15] Hollywood.
[24:17] And we called it Tell My Story because
[24:19] when I was going through Ryan's stuff in
[24:22] the
[24:22] >> [snorts]
[24:22] >> in the house
[24:23] in his room
[24:25] I um went through his drawers and I
[24:27] found two sticky notes.
[24:29] One said um
[24:31] "Here's my username and password." And
[24:32] the other one said, "Tell My Story."
[24:36] So, we did the movie Tell My Story,
[24:38] which you can see on Amazon Prime and
[24:39] Hulu and other streaming stuff.
[24:43] Um
[24:44] You can see all the stuff at
[24:45] tellmystory.org.
[24:47] That's my foundation.
[24:49] We did another movie called
[24:52] What I Wish My Parents Knew.
[24:53] Another movie called Shift.
[24:55] Those two movies go into schools
[24:57] >> Yes.
[24:58] >> as programs.
[24:59] But getting back to the whole pivot
[25:01] concept like
[25:04] >> I mean that's you know, that's like
[25:06] that's what I talk about when a nuclear
[25:08] bomb goes off in your life, right?
[25:11] Everything stops at that moment.
[25:13] >> Yeah, it's easy to talk about we do it
[25:14] tell my story and then talk about
[25:16] what I was thinking at that time.
[25:18] But um
[25:22] my wife and I want to stay together.
[25:25] But it was hard.
[25:27] We did stay together. We are together.
[25:28] >> Mhm.
[25:29] >> Um
[25:30] because I was very public
[25:33] and she's very private.
[25:34] >> Got you.
[25:35] >> And so she's not part of the movie.
[25:37] She's not part of the foundation.
[25:39] And we don't really talk about it at
[25:40] home.
[25:41] I mean she'll occasionally be okay
[25:43] hearing about it, but it's it's her own
[25:46] grief in her own way, right?
[25:48] >> Yeah.
[25:49] >> My uh
[25:51] my daughter got really mad at me. My
[25:54] She's 25 now, so
[25:58] >> She got mad at you for starting the
[25:59] foundation and telling the story.
[26:01] >> and just in life in general she needed
[26:04] something to take her anger out.
[26:06] So we didn't talk for uh
[26:09] two and two and a half years.
[26:10] Like literally didn't speak for two and
[26:11] a half years.
[26:12] >> Wow.
[26:14] >> And um
[26:17] that was very hard because then I lost
[26:18] Ryan and I lost her.
[26:23] Um
[26:24] >> Have you guys since repaired your
[26:26] relationship?
[26:27] >> Well, the positive thing is
[26:30] everything has, yes.
[26:32] And
[26:34] she actually lives on property with us.
[26:37] And so is her husband.
[26:40] And they live in the guest house above
[26:42] our
[26:42] one of our garages and I'm turning that
[26:44] into a house for them.
[26:45] And we have a wonderful relationship
[26:47] now.
[26:48] We We repaired all of it.
[26:50] >> Yeah, she just needed to go through her
[26:51] space and time and anger.
[26:54] >> And I could have been a lot better
[26:55] because I was so
[26:57] driven to make a difference in the world
[27:00] >> Mhm.
[27:00] >> that I didn't
[27:02] I wasn't as
[27:04] available for my family as I probably
[27:06] should have been.
[27:07] >> Well, yeah. Your your coping mechanism
[27:09] was
[27:10] dive in.
[27:12] He wrote, "Tell my story. I'm going to
[27:14] dive in." And when you become
[27:16] laser-focused on something like that,
[27:18] and that was your way of dealing with
[27:20] your grief, too. How can I How can I do
[27:23] this right? How can I make right by him?
[27:24] How can I help other people and other
[27:26] families? But
[27:28] unfortunately, fortunately, like, you
[27:30] know, whatever, like, sometimes that
[27:32] means when you're hyper-focused on
[27:34] something, there's neglect in other
[27:36] areas.
[27:37] >> Well, I when I wasn't doing that, I was
[27:39] working.
[27:40] >> Yeah.
[27:40] >> And I just dove into work.
[27:42] >> Yeah.
[27:42] >> So, I'm, you know,
[27:44] I took on
[27:46] different businesses. I started coaching
[27:48] CEOs. I started I'd be up in the morning
[27:50] at 4:00, start work at 5:00, and work
[27:53] till 7:00 every day.
[27:56] And I didn't have a lot of space for
[27:58] anything else.
[27:59] >> Mhm.
[28:00] >> Um you know, it could have It could have
[28:01] been worse.
[28:02] >> Do you think that was like
[28:04] kind of
[28:06] You know,
[28:07] it almost sounds like that. When some
[28:09] people have like addictions and they
[28:11] take it out on like numbing, right? Your
[28:13] yours was distraction in a way.
[28:15] >> Yeah.
[28:15] >> You know, so it was
[28:16] >> was telling people, like, "Why you work
[28:18] so much?" Like, "Cuz I don't want to be
[28:19] by
[28:20] >> Yeah.
[28:20] >> in my head.
[28:22] >> Yeah, to feel to that, too.
[28:24] >> I still, honestly, feel that way.
[28:26] >> Yeah.
[28:27] >> I'd rather work because I It's just,
[28:29] you know,
[28:31] it
[28:33] It never goes away.
[28:34] >> Yeah.
[28:35] >> It doesn't get better.
[28:38] You just learn how to live with it.
[28:40] >> Mhm.
[28:41] >> Right?
[28:42] >> Which I think that's
[28:44] really important for people to hear.
[28:47] Because so many people think that oh,
[28:48] okay, I can get over this. You don't
[28:50] have to get over it. You have to
[28:53] You can it still can be a part It's
[28:55] going to be a part of your life. You
[28:57] just can navigate and carry it a lot
[28:59] easier.
[29:01] >> Yeah.
[29:02] And so you do.
[29:03] And
[29:05] my wife has done it her way, I've done
[29:06] it my way, the kids have done it their
[29:08] way.
[29:09] >> Mhm.
[29:09] >> But we are all
[29:11] a very close family.
[29:13] >> Yeah.
[29:13] >> And which is very nice. We were always
[29:14] close before this.
[29:16] At least this didn't tear us apart.
[29:18] >> Mhm.
[29:19] >> So.
[29:20] >> And so tell me more about your
[29:22] organization Tell My Story. So I mean
[29:24] before then
[29:26] you're
[29:28] in the construction, you're in the
[29:29] mortgage business, you're in other
[29:30] businesses, right? And you're really
[29:33] this entrepreneur. And now you're doing
[29:35] this nonprofit sector and you're getting
[29:37] into
[29:39] TV and filmmaking and projects and all
[29:41] of that. So that I mean this is a pretty
[29:43] big shift for you, right?
[29:46] >> Well, I'm still
[29:48] very deeply in business. I I own seven
[29:50] different companies.
[29:51] >> No, no, no, yeah. But I mean like to to
[29:53] to to be, you know, but this is a shift
[29:56] of a new priority coming into your life,
[29:58] right? And and you would make projects
[30:01] and travel all over the United States
[30:02] and do all of these things. And so there
[30:04] is like almost as like this creative
[30:06] awakening inside of you, too, that was
[30:08] happening, right?
[30:10] >> Well, I think this it's interesting when
[30:11] you look at that way because
[30:13] I
[30:15] I did
[30:17] discover a different side of me through
[30:18] this whole thing.
[30:19] >> Mhm.
[30:21] >> I was never the guy who cared that much
[30:23] about charity. I was nice to people,
[30:25] right?
[30:25] >> Yeah.
[30:26] >> But I I was the guy who believed that
[30:28] when I die, I'll give a bunch of money
[30:30] to charity and that'll be my way of
[30:32] giving back and until or maybe I retire,
[30:34] I do something.
[30:35] >> Yeah.
[30:36] >> Right? But I wasn't going to focus on
[30:37] any of that
[30:39] until that point.
[30:40] Well, now that's not true anymore and I
[30:43] spend a
[30:44] decent chunk of my time and my money
[30:46] with tell my story because we put all
[30:48] these films in the schools all across
[30:49] the country and we don't charge anybody
[30:51] for it.
[30:52] >> Mhm.
[30:52] >> And I've got a team of six people who
[30:54] that's what they do.
[30:55] >> Yeah.
[30:55] >> Right? So,
[30:57] um and
[30:59] and as a organization
[31:01] I have failed miserably at raising any
[31:03] money for that at [laughter] all.
[31:04] So,
[31:05] I mean my partners have helped out a
[31:06] little bit and I appreciate all that,
[31:08] but I mean the 90% of the funding comes
[31:10] down to me which I'm not complaining
[31:12] about, right? I I can do it. Um
[31:15] but I didn't expect that's who I would
[31:17] be.
[31:18] >> Mhm.
[31:19] >> Right? I also didn't expect that
[31:22] I would be get into the film business
[31:26] as well and and you know, our our friend
[31:29] who introduced me to you, Ken Goldstein,
[31:30] >> Mhm.
[31:31] >> um he's my partner at Ocala Studios.
[31:35] And
[31:36] you know, that's been
[31:39] really helpful in my
[31:41] myself because we
[31:43] Ken works full-time with me and he's
[31:45] creative and that's all he does. He gets
[31:47] to be creative all day long.
[31:49] >> Yeah.
[31:49] >> And so we have made documentary films
[31:51] together.
[31:53] We have done um
[31:55] we have two
[31:56] albums on BMG Music where we write the
[31:58] music and bring out to different artists
[32:00] to come in and sing on the on the
[32:01] albums. There are two albums for mental
[32:03] health that we've done called
[32:06] >> What are the albums called?
[32:07] >> Yeah, I'm forgetting them right now.
[32:08] >> Oh, no.
[32:09] >> [laughter]
[32:09] >> We'll put them down below.
[32:11] We'll put them We'll put the links to
[32:12] the albums down below.
[32:13] >> Uh
[32:14] um
[32:15] yeah.
[32:16] >> And so that that that kind of give you a
[32:18] whole different side of you, right?
[32:20] Because business business business all
[32:22] these different and and yes, you're
[32:23] still business minded and you're
[32:24] bringing that into that, but now you're
[32:26] making films. Now you're making music.
[32:30] Now you're doing all these other aspects
[32:32] that are
[32:34] it from my perspective are tapping into
[32:37] your emotions and allowing you to have
[32:38] an outlet to heal a little bit, too.
[32:41] >> Well, it's interesting because like
[32:42] originally, Ken was going to become the
[32:45] director. I wanted him to possibly
[32:46] direct Tell My Story.
[32:47] And
[32:49] uh
[32:50] Philip Diaz from
[32:52] um Cinema Libre said, "I'll talk to
[32:55] him." And he he did. He goes, "I But
[32:56] look at Ken can't do this film. If you
[32:58] want to do a film about art or music,
[33:00] Ken's probably your guy, but I don't
[33:02] think he's the right guy for this."
[33:04] So, I always remember this. Ken calls me
[33:05] up. I'm down at my shooting range. He
[33:07] says, "Hey, we're going to do this
[33:08] film." I'm like, I don't even met him a
[33:09] few times, but I really liked him.
[33:11] >> Uh-huh.
[33:11] >> And and he said, I said, "Look at
[33:14] Philip does not think this is right the
[33:16] um
[33:18] the this is not right for you."
[33:20] And um
[33:21] he said, "Oh, you're so bummed." I just
[33:23] felt so bad. And I'm like, "On
[33:25] But if you want to do a film about art
[33:26] and music, we can do that."
[33:28] >> [laughter]
[33:29] >> And I'm like, "Yo, where'd that come
[33:30] from?
[33:31] I've never done any of this crap in my
[33:32] life."
[33:33] And so, that launched us into doing all
[33:36] this different stuff. So, that's where
[33:37] the songs from the Drive Home album came
[33:39] from. That's where um you know, we we
[33:42] have a show called Ghost Town USA, where
[33:45] we go and interview people who live in
[33:46] ghosts.
[33:47] >> Yeah, I heard that you were in
[33:48] Wisconsin. That just re- recently.
[33:51] >> we have
[33:52] have amazing stories and amazing fun
[33:55] doing all that kind of stuff.
[33:56] Um
[33:58] that led us to
[34:00] you know, the play Walking My Brother
[34:01] Home
[34:02] with Brenda Eager. I think you know
[34:03] Brenda, right?
[34:04] >> Uh-huh. Yes. Brenda and Patty.
[34:06] >> You know Brenda and Patty, right? So,
[34:08] Brenda and I did a play that we start
[34:10] Brenda brought to me during COVID.
[34:12] >> Okay.
[34:13] >> And we started working on it. And then
[34:15] she wrote all the songs for it. And we
[34:17] turned it into a musical play
[34:19] that was up in LA a couple times last
[34:21] year.
[34:22] And it's
[34:23] it's amazing how how we Well, you know,
[34:26] it's just very expensive for the play
[34:28] on.
[34:28] >> Yeah.
[34:29] >> Right? And make any money out of it. Or
[34:30] make you least get your money back.
[34:32] >> Mhm.
[34:32] >> So, after we did the last, you know,
[34:34] weekend and then I think it was October
[34:36] last year, I said,
[34:38] "Ken, I think we should turn this into a
[34:39] movie."
[34:41] Cuz that way
[34:43] it's a lot less to turn into a movie
[34:44] than run it for six more weekends and
[34:46] keep losing money.
[34:47] >> [laughter]
[34:48] [gasps]
[34:49] >> So, we're actually shooting this whole
[34:50] thing as we re- re- did the script and
[34:54] got it all together. We've got the
[34:55] soundtrack all laid down already and
[34:57] we're going to film it for 4 days next
[34:59] week and get it all done in 4 days.
[35:00] >> Oh, amazing. A whole feature in 4 days.
[35:03] >> all in a green screen studio. I mean,
[35:05] it's amazing these days what you can do
[35:06] with AI and green screen and everything
[35:08] else.
[35:08] >> Yeah.
[35:09] >> So, that's that's the goal. Now, it's an
[35:11] it's an amb- an ambitious goal, but
[35:14] >> Well, I mean, but if anybody can do it,
[35:15] it's you.
[35:16] >> Well, well, I've got a great team of
[35:17] people, but I think the the point I'm
[35:20] trying to make behind this is
[35:23] you know, at
[35:24] the Ryan thing was the most
[35:28] miseral thing that's ever happened to
[35:29] me.
[35:29] >> Mhm.
[35:30] >> It's just soul-crushing.
[35:32] It's the only way I have to start to
[35:33] describe it, but I don't
[35:34] I don't know how to describe it.
[35:37] But, if you let things like that crush
[35:39] you,
[35:40] >> Yeah.
[35:40] >> they will.
[35:42] >> Yeah.
[35:42] >> Or if you find
[35:45] something
[35:46] >> purpose and meaning
[35:47] >> purpose and meaning, something to hold
[35:48] on to.
[35:49] And I think that
[35:52] through work, through creative outlets,
[35:54] I beca- I mean,
[35:57] I can find joy in life.
[35:59] >> Yeah.
[36:00] >> At least some, right?
[36:01] >> Mhm.
[36:02] >> And like I said, my wife and I are still
[36:04] together and my kids and I are still
[36:05] together.
[36:06] So,
[36:08] but we had to work at that.
[36:10] >> Yeah.
[36:11] >> Like it's and I see families like
[36:14] I talk to them all the time and they've
[36:16] lost their kids, they lost somebody
[36:18] and they just can't
[36:21] do anything.
[36:22] >> Mhm.
[36:23] >> And they feel sorry for themse- I feel
[36:25] sorry for them, too. I feel sorry for
[36:26] me.
[36:27] >> Yeah.
[36:28] >> But you can't. You have to keep moving.
[36:31] >> Yeah.
[36:32] >> You have to keep moving. You can't You
[36:34] can't stop.
[36:36] I mean, it's just
[36:37] >> Because when you stop, it's like um
[36:40] stagnant water, right?
[36:41] >> Mhm. [snorts]
[36:42] >> We're meant to flow.
[36:44] >> Yeah.
[36:44] >> We're meant to move forward.
[36:46] And it doesn't negate, it doesn't take
[36:48] back, it doesn't change, it doesn't mean
[36:50] that you're not in pain.
[36:54] But you're still alive and there's a
[36:57] difference that you can make and you're
[36:58] making your your a living example of a
[37:02] difference that you moving forward.
[37:06] You know, your Shift documentary is in
[37:08] what? Almost all the high schools,
[37:09] right?
[37:09] >> No, we we we'll get it in about 300
[37:11] schools this year, so.
[37:12] >> Okay. And then
[37:15] your documentary, your books, everything
[37:18] that you do, even people that
[37:20] hear your TED Talk, 10 to 12 million
[37:22] people that have heard it, right?
[37:24] >> The goal cast, I think is that many,
[37:25] yeah.
[37:26] >> Yeah.
[37:27] >> Yeah, but I mean, these days that's not
[37:28] a lot.
[37:30] >> You know, I don't you know, diminish
[37:31] some of this, but but but the thing is
[37:33] that
[37:33] >> with my stuff is if you watch my stuff,
[37:35] you watched it for a reason.
[37:36] >> Yeah.
[37:37] >> All right, it's not This is not like
[37:38] when people when I go speak
[37:40] and there's a crowd of people in the
[37:41] audience, if there's five people or 500
[37:44] people,
[37:45] they're there because they have
[37:46] something They're there for a reason.
[37:49] You don't come to You don't come to
[37:49] listen to me
[37:51] because you have nothing else to do on a
[37:52] Tuesday.
[37:53] >> Mhm.
[37:55] But that's what I mean. The people,
[37:56] whether it's five people,
[37:59] 12 million,
[38:00] whatever the number is,
[38:03] you're making a difference
[38:05] by you moving forward in your life.
[38:09] By you finding
[38:11] that energy of enthusiasm, that energy
[38:14] of curiosity, that energy of trying
[38:18] something new
[38:20] and creating.
[38:23] You can't
[38:25] take back what happened, but you can
[38:27] make a difference for so many other
[38:29] people that are either have gone through
[38:31] something similar
[38:33] or
[38:34] have had a near close call by something
[38:37] similar and they want to find a way to
[38:40] navigate through
[38:42] and have a better relationship or
[38:44] prevent something from happening in the
[38:46] future.
[38:46] >> Mhm.
[38:47] >> Right?
[38:49] But also
[38:51] even people that haven't
[38:53] went through a loss or a near loss of a
[38:56] child a sister, a brother, somebody near
[39:00] and dear to them.
[39:04] The resilience
[39:05] and the movement forward translates to
[39:08] anybody going through a difficult time.
[39:12] >> It does.
[39:13] And I wish
[39:15] you know, as we I spend a lot of time
[39:16] talking to parents.
[39:18] Cuz that's my message to parents they
[39:19] have to own your kids' mental health.
[39:21] The way you own their physical health,
[39:22] right?
[39:23] >> Yeah.
[39:24] >> Because
[39:25] there's not enough doctors and
[39:26] therapists and psychiatrists and
[39:27] psychologists out there.
[39:29] And we have to be that for our kids.
[39:31] >> Mhm.
[39:32] >> And it's not easy and I understand that.
[39:35] Um
[39:36] >> And there's a new thing that you're kind
[39:38] of even having the last time we spoke
[39:41] that there was a new fire being built
[39:44] inside of you for another difference
[39:45] that you can make with everything that's
[39:47] going on with AI.
[39:49] >> Well, there's a couple of things we have
[39:51] going on. Um
[39:52] now we have a organization called Uplift
[39:54] at Work
[39:55] which is training companies how to have
[39:57] mental health conversations.
[39:59] >> Okay.
[39:59] >> Um
[40:01] and that program was there because
[40:04] what people don't realize is we lose
[40:06] more time to
[40:08] mental health issues than we do to RSV
[40:10] and COVID and all that kind of stuff
[40:12] combined.
[40:13] >> Mhm.
[40:13] >> Because when someone walks into someone
[40:15] else's office and says
[40:17] my daughter's cutting
[40:19] and I don't know what to do."
[40:21] Usually that manager on the other side
[40:23] of that desk says,
[40:25] "Either do I."
[40:27] >> Yeah.
[40:28] >> Because we haven't trained them.
[40:30] >> Mhm.
[40:30] >> And that person leaves and feels
[40:32] completely unsupported.
[40:33] >> Yeah.
[40:34] >> And then they take 3 days off because
[40:35] they don't know what else to do.
[40:37] >> Yeah, or they show up consistently and
[40:39] they're
[40:39] >> And they're working and they're not
[40:41] there.
[40:41] >> Yeah. I mean,
[40:43] the depending on what stats you want to
[40:45] use, you know, 40% of us are dealing
[40:47] with some kind of depression or anxiety
[40:49] issue at any given time.
[40:51] >> Oof.
[40:51] >> It's a big number.
[40:53] >> And I think that's that's increasing
[40:55] with everything that's going on. That is
[40:56] why I was inspired to create this show
[41:01] because so many people are dealing with
[41:04] matters that plague them, that can't
[41:06] seem to get over
[41:08] the darkness or
[41:11] their circumstances or they're uncertain
[41:13] on where to go next. And that anxiety
[41:16] starts to brew.
[41:18] It's almost like they're Yeah, life is
[41:20] hard.
[41:20] >> Yeah. And if you take a look like
[41:23] if you think about kids for a second,
[41:24] right? And we say, "Well, why are kids
[41:26] having so many challenges?"
[41:28] When I look back and I
[41:30] In my one TED Talk, the hot lava talk,
[41:33] >> Mhm.
[41:33] >> I talked about this, but here I'll give
[41:35] you a quick summary if you want.
[41:36] >> Yeah, absolutely, please.
[41:38] >> And we'll put a link down below to it,
[41:39] too.
[41:40] >> Sure. I mean,
[41:41] when I grew up,
[41:43] >> [clears throat]
[41:44] >> I I compare like when I was 14 to when
[41:47] Ryan was 14.
[41:49] >> Mhm.
[41:49] >> Well, when I was 14,
[41:51] when the phone rang,
[41:53] it was on the wall.
[41:54] >> Yeah.
[41:55] >> Right? And my dad wouldn't answer it.
[41:57] >> You had to do this to dial in the
[41:59] numbers.
[42:00] >> My dad wouldn't answer it and like
[42:02] you'd stand there and he'd stand next to
[42:03] you until you went and yelled, "Just
[42:04] talk to you at school tomorrow."
[42:07] Right? Because you're not going to
[42:10] do that.
[42:10] >> Yeah.
[42:12] >> You know, I didn't The news was not
[42:14] 24-hour news, and I didn't watch it.
[42:16] >> Mhm.
[42:19] >> The newspaper would come, and the only
[42:20] thing I'd do is grab the comics and grab
[42:21] some silly putty.
[42:23] Ever do that?
[42:24] >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[42:24] >> Silly putty you put on there and you
[42:25] have [laughter] to copy and you stretch
[42:26] the comic?
[42:27] >> Mhm.
[42:28] >> That's my extent of using newspaper when
[42:29] I was 14.
[42:30] Um
[42:31] I didn't You know, I had bullies. I had
[42:34] a lot of bullies. I was like a small kid
[42:36] and sickly.
[42:38] And but they all stayed at school,
[42:40] right?
[42:41] >> Yeah.
[42:41] >> And they were all bigger than me.
[42:43] But when I got home, I was safe.
[42:45] So, we didn't have mental health issues
[42:48] the way we do now when I was growing up.
[42:51] >> Mhm.
[42:51] >> No one talked about them. We just didn't
[42:53] really have them.
[42:54] >> Yeah.
[42:55] >> Because when you Look, fast forward to
[42:56] today,
[42:57] like
[42:58] Look at these kids,
[43:00] they're they have cell phones. You can
[43:02] see from 2007 to where we are today, the
[43:06] complete collapse of the of our mental
[43:08] health for youth
[43:09] from the time Facebook first came out.
[43:12] >> Mhm.
[43:14] >> It's very clear
[43:15] why we are where we are.
[43:18] Right?
[43:19] >> Yeah.
[43:19] >> And Meta doesn't really care.
[43:21] >> Yeah.
[43:22] >> No, Mark, you don't care.
[43:24] You've proven that.
[43:26] It's that and it it's not all Meta's
[43:28] fault.
[43:29] >> Yeah.
[43:29] >> Right? But it's a big piece of it, and
[43:31] they could have done more. And they
[43:32] should still do more.
[43:34] >> Yeah.
[43:34] >> Right? Their algorithms are terrible.
[43:35] >> Mhm.
[43:36] >> Um
[43:39] But not only that,
[43:40] like if you I didn't know what was going
[43:42] on in the world when I was when I was
[43:44] 14, right? You can take a 6 7 8-year-old
[43:46] kid right now, and they know about the
[43:48] war in Ukraine.
[43:51] They know about
[43:52] China and Taiwan.
[43:54] They know that we just Mexico's now on
[43:56] fire all of a sudden this weekend with
[43:58] with with the cartels.
[43:59] >> Yeah.
[44:00] >> They know about everything.
[44:01] >> Yeah.
[44:01] >> They know that we've got, you know, two
[44:03] complete carrier groups sitting off off
[44:06] the coast of Iran, wondering where we're
[44:07] going to bomb Iran.
[44:08] >> Mhm.
[44:09] >> And their anxiety levels are through the
[44:11] roof.
[44:12] >> And they're enmeshed in the political
[44:15] drama and what
[44:16] and it's like I mean
[44:19] when we were growing up, we didn't even
[44:21] pay attention to politics, know anything
[44:23] about politics, right? And now these
[44:26] kids can recite, you know, e- either
[44:28] side of the coin depending on their
[44:30] parents and their upbringing and the
[44:31] schools and
[44:31] >> embarrassment on both sides of the coin.
[44:32] >> Yeah.
[44:33] >> It's an absolute embarrassment.
[44:35] >> But they're
[44:36] Why are they knowing that, right? Why do
[44:38] they know all of the political top
[44:40] button issues, right? Why are they going
[44:43] to school wearing, you know, guns are
[44:46] bad or guns are good shirts or whatever
[44:48] the case may be to support like why is
[44:50] that even happening?
[44:52] >> [laughter]
[44:52] >> And then if none of that even comes
[44:54] about, well, why bother because global
[44:56] warming's going to kill us all in 10
[44:57] years.
[44:57] >> Yeah.
[44:59] >> So, these kids are dealing with life
[45:01] completely differently. And their
[45:03] bullies come home with them because
[45:04] their bullies have a keyboard. They're
[45:05] just they can be little kids just being
[45:07] mean,
[45:08] >> Yeah. Pu- posting nasty comments on
[45:10] their social profiles or
[45:11] >> Middle school kids are mean to begin
[45:13] with, but they're really super mean when
[45:14] they have phones.
[45:15] >> Mhm.
[45:15] >> Right?
[45:17] And
[45:18] that, you know,
[45:19] their brains are the same size brain I
[45:21] had when the only thing I had to worry
[45:22] about was who I was going to get to sit
[45:24] underneath the ramp while I took my bike
[45:26] and ran over it on the weekend and tried
[45:28] to jump on, right? Who's going to be the
[45:29] idiot who would go underneath the ramp?
[45:31] That's the only thing I had to figure
[45:32] out. What's what's this weekend's idiot?
[45:34] Right? But that's not what these kids
[45:35] have to worry about.
[45:37] >> Yeah.
[45:37] >> Like
[45:38] back then everybody went to college
[45:39] because it was cheap.
[45:40] >> Yeah.
[45:41] >> Now, it's really it's almost impossible
[45:44] to get in a good school. You have to
[45:45] have perfect grades.
[45:47] And it's really expensive. And why
[45:48] bother going?
[45:49] >> Mhm.
[45:49] >> So,
[45:50] it's the pressure on these kids is so
[45:52] much different. And we wonder why
[45:54] they're struggling. We wonder why their
[45:56] their mental health is so out of whack.
[45:59] >> Yeah. And they're addicted to simulated
[46:01] worlds, too.
[46:03] Like I mean
[46:04] >> in their video games and the
[46:05] >> I mean I read a stat and they I mean and
[46:07] this goes from you know, people that are
[46:11] 90-year-olds and people that are young
[46:13] like 6-year-olds. And so but the average
[46:15] American spends 6.5 hours a day on the
[46:18] screen. So there's some people that are
[46:20] hardly spending anything and then
[46:22] there's a big subset. Well, when you put
[46:25] that into context if kids are supposed
[46:26] to be in school but you have they're
[46:28] still 6.5 hours on the screen minimum,
[46:31] you know?
[46:31] >> I've I've heard I've heard higher
[46:32] [laughter] numbers. I've heard higher
[46:33] numbers. I've heard higher numbers.
[46:34] >> Yeah, well yeah for kids.
[46:35] >> 9 9.5 hours for kids.
[46:37] >> Yeah, I'm saying that's the the average
[46:39] American if you you know, do the math.
[46:40] But the kids are on there but how is
[46:43] that even possible if you're supposed to
[46:45] be like, you know, in school and then
[46:47] you have this other stuff like that
[46:48] means that they're on on during school.
[46:50] That means that they're on first thing
[46:52] in the morning, they're on as soon as
[46:53] they get off of school. They're they're
[46:55] just consumed in the screen.
[46:57] >> And we were all well, not all of us
[47:00] um but people doom scroll constantly.
[47:02] >> Mhm.
[47:03] >> Just boom boom. And I get it the videos
[47:05] are funny I guess. I mean I actually try
[47:07] not to do any of it because I
[47:09] I [laughter] have an addicted
[47:10] personality. I'd probably like it,
[47:11] right?
[47:11] >> Yeah.
[47:12] >> But I mean going there's so much more
[47:13] you can do. I mean the the whole thing
[47:15] about the movie Shift if we you know,
[47:17] kind of change this around a little bit.
[47:18] >> Yeah.
[47:19] >> Um but I mean to to wrap that up it's
[47:22] very clear why we are where we are. The
[47:24] worlds are completely different. I mean
[47:26] kind of I mean does that suit you?
[47:27] >> And
[47:29] you know, Shift is a movie that we put
[47:31] together because we wanted to see
[47:31] something that was really positive in
[47:33] the world. So I interviewed these 10
[47:35] kids
[47:36] that all had different activities they
[47:38] did.
[47:38] >> Okay.
[47:39] >> So they had mental health issues but
[47:41] because of their sport, because they
[47:43] were they had a little business, because
[47:45] they were poets,
[47:46] because they were in acting, they had
[47:48] something exciting
[47:50] to wake them up in the morning.
[47:52] >> Mhm.
[47:52] >> So what I like to tell people is like if
[47:55] you want to help your kids with their
[47:56] mental health, You want to help yourself
[47:58] with your mental health.
[48:00] Find that thing that's just for you.
[48:03] >> Yeah.
[48:03] >> That you're excited about. That you want
[48:05] to go do.
[48:08] And you don't have to be great at it.
[48:09] >> Yeah.
[48:10] >> Like I I I got a few examples in my own
[48:12] life, right?
[48:13] I play guitar.
[48:15] >> Okay.
[48:16] >> I play guitar since I was 14 years old.
[48:19] I'm terrible.
[48:21] I can play. I can strum.
[48:22] I went to 10 years of singing lessons a
[48:24] lot with Brenda.
[48:25] So that I could at least sing in the
[48:27] house while my wife's making dinner and
[48:29] she won't absolutely kick me out to
[48:31] another room.
[48:32] >> [laughter]
[48:33] >> But if you if there was a guitar here
[48:34] and said play God play me some I can't
[48:36] remember a damn song.
[48:38] If I don't have an iPad in front of me,
[48:39] I'm useless.
[48:40] >> Yeah.
[48:41] >> So I'm not any good at it. But I don't
[48:43] care.
[48:44] >> Cuz you love it.
[48:45] >> it for me.
[48:46] >> Yeah.
[48:46] >> When I when I wrap up work around 7:00
[48:48] and I play for a half hour before
[48:50] dinner,
[48:51] I it just makes me feel good. It's for
[48:53] me. It's for nobody else. I look forward
[48:55] to it.
[48:56] >> Mhm.
[48:57] >> I am
[48:58] I'm an Iron Man athlete.
[49:00] >> Oh, really?
[49:01] >> Yeah.
[49:02] But
[49:03] it comes with a butt.
[49:04] >> Okay, what's the butt?
[49:05] >> I've I've done five halves. I've done
[49:06] two full Iron Mans.
[49:08] And this is probably 10 years ago. I did
[49:10] through I went through I go through
[49:11] phases, right?
[49:11] >> Okay.
[49:14] >> I came in last
[49:16] or at least virtually last
[49:18] on every See, every single race.
[49:20] [laughter]
[49:21] Every race.
[49:22] I sucked
[49:23] at it.
[49:25] Now, I could say I'm an Iron Man
[49:26] athlete.
[49:27] But he's no one asked like
[49:29] >> [laughter]
[49:29] >> How long did it take you to finish?
[49:31] What was your time?
[49:31] >> Thank God no one asked, right? Unless
[49:33] it's Iron Man to Iron Man, they might
[49:35] ask. But most people don't ever ask,
[49:37] right? So I can say I did it, but I was
[49:40] I'm terrible at it. But at that point in
[49:42] my life,
[49:43] that was important to me. That's what
[49:44] got me going every every morning. I was
[49:46] like, get up and train and train and
[49:47] train and train and train. It was
[49:49] exciting. It was fun. It was It was
[49:50] outside of
[49:52] wife and kids and work. It was something
[49:54] for me.
[49:55] >> Yeah.
[49:56] >> I mean, I got another one for you. I've
[49:58] written seven books.
[50:00] And I like to tell people I've written
[50:01] seven books
[50:02] and I've sold eight. Cuz nobody buys my
[50:04] books.
[50:05] >> [laughter]
[50:06] >> And I don't care.
[50:08] >> Yeah.
[50:08] >> Because the process of writing a book or
[50:11] the six or seven screenplays I've
[50:12] written that have never gone to movies.
[50:14] >> [laughter]
[50:14] >> Unless I make it myself, I guess.
[50:16] >> Yeah.
[50:16] >> Um
[50:18] the process of getting up in the morning
[50:21] and writing for a couple hours every day
[50:24] not with ChatGPT
[50:26] writing for real and getting your
[50:28] thoughts down on paper and then editing
[50:29] and putting them in a format of a book
[50:31] is an amazing pro- Everybody should go
[50:33] through that.
[50:33] >> Yeah.
[50:34] >> Right? I don't You don't have to be
[50:36] great at anything.
[50:37] So, here's my question for you.
[50:40] What did you used to do when you were
[50:41] younger
[50:42] that you no longer do
[50:45] that brought you joy?
[50:46] >> Ooh, I used to play basketball
[50:50] and skateboard almost every day.
[50:52] >> Okay.
[50:52] >> And I don't do either of those anymore.
[50:56] >> You know,
[50:58] probably just a whole bunch of excuses.
[51:00] >> How would you feel if you played
[51:02] basketball or skateboarded again?
[51:04] >> Really good. I think skateboarding might
[51:06] make me a little nervous
[51:07] >> just I would just get [laughter] up and
[51:08] break my hip. I'm not sure.
[51:10] >> I think I used to be like a I built a I
[51:12] even built a half pipe in my backyard
[51:14] when I was younger cuz I like I loved it
[51:16] so much. I would go and if it was a
[51:17] crazy hill, I was doing it on the
[51:19] street. You know, I was always
[51:20] skateboarding, but um
[51:23] I'd be worried that I would break my
[51:25] nose or my or my face. But, I think
[51:27] basketball every like joining a league
[51:29] or doing something like that because
[51:30] that was a that was a love of mine.
[51:32] >> Why do you think it stopped being a love
[51:33] of yours?
[51:34] >> I think I thought that I grew out of it,
[51:37] but I didn't.
[51:38] >> Huh?
[51:39] >> You know,
[51:40] it just became something that was on the
[51:42] side and then I
[51:45] You know, actually I do know.
[51:47] I attributed that to my really tomboy
[51:50] years and I and I was a big tomboy.
[51:54] And when I became more feminine, those
[51:57] two things exited out of my life.
[51:59] >> You thought they had to be out of your
[52:00] >> Yeah, because it was interesting cuz I
[52:02] still play soccer.
[52:04] And it today, but soccer was okayed as a
[52:07] female type of sport.
[52:09] And so even up until I mean I'm still on
[52:12] a league today.
[52:13] >> [laughter]
[52:14] >> What do you think you enjoy more,
[52:15] basketball or soccer?
[52:16] >> Oh, definitely basketball.
[52:18] Definitely basketball.
[52:19] >> Wow.
[52:20] Interesting.
[52:21] >> Yeah.
[52:23] >> How about creatively?
[52:24] >> Creatively,
[52:26] um
[52:27] I used to write a lot more poetry and I
[52:29] don't do that.
[52:30] >> When did you write poetry?
[52:31] >> I would write poetry when I'd be in
[52:33] nature.
[52:35] >> How old were you?
[52:36] >> I would it started even when I was
[52:38] young, like uh maybe middle school.
[52:41] It was a little bit in high school and
[52:42] then I would do it every once in a
[52:44] while, but then
[52:46] that stopped, too.
[52:47] >> Why'd you stop?
[52:49] >> Um
[52:51] I get distracted with life.
[52:54] >> How did you feel when you wrote poetry?
[52:56] >> I felt
[52:57] connected to my feelings.
[52:59] And then when life
[53:01] became busy or when I had my own
[53:03] upheavals or problems and disasters
[53:06] happening,
[53:07] I tried to numb myself from my feelings.
[53:10] >> Mhm.
[53:11] >> And so
[53:13] that went to the side.
[53:14] >> How do you feel now about that?
[53:16] >> I think it needs to come back in.
[53:18] >> [sighs]
[53:20] >> Even if it they suck, right?
[53:22] >> [laughter]
[53:23] >> That you know, no one else has to read
[53:24] them.
[53:24] >> Yeah.
[53:25] >> Maybe you someone else reads them, but
[53:27] nobody else has to read them.
[53:28] >> Yeah.
[53:28] >> I mean this is the this is the challenge
[53:30] we have, I think, as adults
[53:33] and kids. Like when I when we did the
[53:34] movie Shift, I thought it was for kids.
[53:37] And I realized it's for everybody.
[53:38] >> Yeah.
[53:38] >> Because
[53:40] so many of us
[53:42] don't do what we love.
[53:44] Or we forgot what we loved.
[53:46] >> Yeah.
[53:46] >> We And we And
[53:48] >> Or we never even explored what we loved.
[53:49] >> explored what we loved. I went to I
[53:52] spoke in front of 1,500 kids at Orange
[53:53] Lutheran High School in Orange County a
[53:55] couple weeks ago.
[53:56] And I said and
[53:58] it was funny that the the teachers after
[54:00] I was done said, "We've never seen that
[54:02] group so quiet."
[54:03] They were just all paying attention
[54:05] like,
[54:05] "Well, they're not always like that. I
[54:06] thought they were." [laughter]
[54:09] And my favorite line to the moms is cuz
[54:10] I was talking about, you know, hobbies
[54:12] and doing something creative. I said,
[54:14] "I want you all to go home this weekend,
[54:17] talk to your parents, and make them take
[54:19] you to Hobby Lobby.
[54:20] And walk those aisles until you find
[54:21] something you go, 'I just want to try
[54:23] that.'"
[54:24] >> I love that.
[54:26] And I think that that can extend to
[54:28] adults.
[54:29] >> I I I agree.
[54:30] >> And walk down Hobby Lobby.
[54:32] >> is interesting like, I have too many
[54:33] hobbies already. But so if I ever go in
[54:35] there, I'm like, I have to go straight
[54:37] to what I need to get pick up
[54:37] immediately [laughter] cuz otherwise
[54:38] I'll have 19 more hobbies.
[54:40] But I I think that
[54:42] people get caught up in the idea that if
[54:44] they're going to do something they have
[54:45] to be great at it.
[54:46] >> Yeah.
[54:47] >> And you don't. You just have to enjoy
[54:48] it.
[54:51] >> It's a very powerful statement. Because
[54:53] I think that that's what plagues people
[54:55] from even trying, you know? The when we
[54:58] started
[54:59] the podcast,
[55:01] I was that you were I at one of the
[55:03] first things that I said is, "What gave
[55:05] you that encouragement and that
[55:06] confidence to just ask, right? You
[55:09] know?" I think that that's a skill set
[55:11] that so many people are afraid of the
[55:13] no, like you said.
[55:15] But they're also
[55:17] afraid of the failure or that
[55:20] it has to be good. It has to be perfect,
[55:24] quote unquote, in order for it to be
[55:27] right. But if they make a cake or if
[55:29] they cook and it turns out like crap,
[55:31] who cares, you know? Like if
[55:34] if you're good at guitar or if you're
[55:36] horrible,
[55:38] did you enjoy playing it?
[55:40] >> I think
[55:41] a lot of people
[55:43] believe they have to be great at
[55:45] something
[55:46] in order to spend any time doing it,
[55:47] like we're talking about.
[55:48] >> Mhm.
[55:49] >> And the reality is
[55:50] there's so few people in the world that
[55:52] are great at anything.
[55:54] >> Yeah.
[55:54] >> If you're waiting to find the thing in
[55:55] life you're great at,
[55:58] you may go through life and never find
[55:59] it.
[56:01] But if you enjoy the things that you're
[56:02] good at
[56:04] or you just enjoy,
[56:05] >> Yeah.
[56:06] >> then you have a great life.
[56:07] >> Yeah, even if you I mean, look at if you
[56:09] you did all of those Ironmans, it didn't
[56:12] matter if you came in last, you did
[56:13] them. How many people think that they're
[56:15] going to do a marathon, an Ironman,
[56:17] anything, right?
[56:18] >> Mhm.
[56:19] >> And
[56:19] they never even do it.
[56:21] >> I'll tell you, if I can do it, you can
[56:22] do it. You just have to train for it. I
[56:24] mean, it's just
[56:25] >> Yeah.
[56:25] >> There's a process. You know, it'll take
[56:26] it'll take you a year and a half to
[56:27] train up your body to do it, but you can
[56:29] get through it even if you walked the
[56:30] run like I did.
[56:31] >> Yeah.
[56:32] >> it. And by the way, don't do it. It's
[56:33] crazy.
[56:34] >> [laughter]
[56:36] >> But there's so many I mean, there's so
[56:37] many other things in life you can do,
[56:38] right?
[56:39] >> Yeah, but even going through with that,
[56:40] that was your outlet, that was your
[56:42] challenge to yourself, that was also
[56:45] honoring your body, honoring your mind,
[56:47] honoring an outlet to release stress,
[56:50] whatever else it was for you.
[56:52] And you did it, and you did it again and
[56:55] again because there was something that
[56:56] you got out of it.
[56:57] >> But also, so
[56:59] I work a lot, obviously.
[57:00] >> Mhm.
[57:01] >> I mean, the one thing So, what I don't
[57:02] do is I don't watch a lot of TV.
[57:04] And I don't read a lot of fiction.
[57:06] >> Mhm.
[57:06] >> Right?
[57:07] And I my my days are productive and busy
[57:10] from the time I wake up to the time I go
[57:12] to bed.
[57:13] And I'm always trying to learn
[57:14] something. So, I'm listening to a
[57:15] podcast, I'm on AI trying to learn
[57:17] [clears throat] something. I'm just
[57:18] trying going deep into some random
[57:20] thought in my head, right?
[57:22] >> Yeah.
[57:22] >> Um so, I don't I don't sit and watch TV.
[57:25] It's just not my thing.
[57:27] And I'm not saying that if you do it
[57:28] it's it's wrong. I'm just saying I don't
[57:30] do it. Um but
[57:33] I
[57:34] need that creative outlet so much. I
[57:37] need to do things that are completely
[57:38] outside of business.
[57:39] >> Yeah.
[57:40] >> And create completely outside of telling
[57:42] my story to keep me balanced.
[57:45] Something that makes puts a smile on my
[57:46] face.
[57:47] >> Yeah.
[57:47] >> Cuz, you know, people ask me like, "Is
[57:49] Oh, there'll be a bug there.
[57:51] Is doing telling my story healing for
[57:54] you?"
[57:55] And the answer's no.
[57:58] It's painful every time I talk about it.
[58:00] And I wish I didn't have to talk about
[58:02] it.
[58:03] Like, it's not something that I get a
[58:04] lot of joy from.
[58:05] >> No.
[58:06] >> But what I
[58:07] realized lately is that
[58:10] you know, if if I was to stop doing what
[58:12] I do there,
[58:15] I do believe that when I pass, I'm going
[58:17] to go somewhere.
[58:18] >> Mhm.
[58:19] >> And there'll be a reconciling of what I
[58:20] did in my life.
[58:22] And what I don't want that reconciling
[58:23] to be is
[58:24] why did you stop?
[58:26] >> Yeah.
[58:27] >> You could have saved
[58:29] X many more kids if you didn't stop.
[58:32] >> Mhm.
[58:33] >> So, I can't stop.
[58:35] I don't like it. I don't enjoy it.
[58:38] I do like the the benefit we do for
[58:40] people.
[58:41] >> Yeah.
[58:41] >> But personally, no, I don't want to do
[58:43] it. So, I have to have all this other
[58:46] balance in my life and things that bring
[58:48] me joy cuz work doesn't always bring me
[58:51] joy.
[58:51] >> Yeah.
[58:52] >> Right?
[58:53] And that doesn't always bring me joy.
[58:56] And we want our families to bring us
[58:57] joy, but we know that doesn't happen all
[58:58] the time.
[58:59] >> Yeah. [laughter]
[59:01] Absolutely not.
[59:03] You know, sometimes that becomes one of
[59:05] the biggest stressors in one's life, and
[59:07] that's where you need the escapism from
[59:08] there.
[59:09] >> Yeah, I know. I've been married 33
[59:10] years. Trust me, I get it, right?
[59:11] >> Yeah.
[59:12] >> And you know, my oldest is 29 and my and
[59:15] my daughter's 25 now and my other son's
[59:17] 23, so I probably screwed up those
[59:19] ages. Sorry.
[59:21] Um, but um, yeah, it's like life is life
[59:24] is complicated. So, having something
[59:27] that you can escape to.
[59:28] >> Yeah.
[59:29] >> And I don't Sorry guys, I don't think
[59:31] video games count. I don't think
[59:32] scrolling on Instagram accounts.
[59:34] Something that you can be creatively
[59:35] doing that you're thinking. You have to
[59:37] think.
[59:38] >> Yeah.
[59:38] >> That uses part of your brain without a
[59:40] screen.
[59:41] >> Yeah.
[59:41] >> Right?
[59:42] >> Your brain and your physical self,
[59:44] right? And whether that is doing a
[59:46] collage, doing something
[59:49] exercise something that's moving brain,
[59:51] I think is a like a really powerful
[59:53] converse.
[59:53] >> And then do the stuff, you know, as a as
[59:55] adults figure out that thing that you
[59:56] just
[59:58] stopped doing for whatever reason. You
[1:00:00] try it.
[1:00:01] >> And what do you think like
[1:00:04] made you be this person that
[1:00:07] is always open to learning and doing
[1:00:11] more and trying the next thing? Because
[1:00:13] that's the through line that I'm seeing
[1:00:15] with you, Jason, is that even as as a
[1:00:18] kid, you're ready and you're open to
[1:00:21] just explore what else was it, whether
[1:00:24] that was the offer that you got from
[1:00:26] your job when you were working in Canada
[1:00:28] and you're like, "Okay, I'm I'm moving
[1:00:30] down to Southern California." Or whether
[1:00:32] it was, you know, from one business
[1:00:34] venture to
[1:00:36] jumping ship and working in the mortgage
[1:00:38] to doing that to that to all of the
[1:00:41] things that you've done.
[1:00:43] I see that there is an ability to try.
[1:00:48] And what do you think that is inside of
[1:00:50] you?
[1:00:54] >> My favorite kids book growing up
[1:00:57] was Curious George.
[1:00:58] >> Huh. That makes so soothing.
[1:01:01] I can see that.
[1:01:02] >> [laughter]
[1:01:02] >> So I identify with
[1:01:05] Curious George.
[1:01:07] >> Okay, so curiosity.
[1:01:08] >> Curiosity.
[1:01:09] >> Curiosity.
[1:01:11] >> My whole life is purely curiosity.
[1:01:12] >> You ask questions. How could I? What
[1:01:16] could we do? What would that be like?
[1:01:18] And those curiosity
[1:01:21] that
[1:01:22] is inside of you causes you to explore
[1:01:25] the curiosity. It's like if somebody
[1:01:27] says, "No matter what you do, do not go
[1:01:29] in that closet."
[1:01:31] You know, the curiosity inside of you
[1:01:33] will will need to open the closet,
[1:01:34] right? And so that's that's kind of what
[1:01:38] has been a strength inside of you is to
[1:01:40] be curious.
[1:01:41] >> And I also believe that
[1:01:43] I've fallen so many times and I keep
[1:01:44] getting up
[1:01:46] that nothing's going to really take me
[1:01:47] out for a long for a long period of
[1:01:49] time.
[1:01:49] >> Mhm.
[1:01:50] >> Right. Business-wise, I've fallen so
[1:01:52] many times I'm not afraid of falling.
[1:01:54] Right? And every and every and like I
[1:01:56] view my life as spinning plates
[1:01:57] business-wise.
[1:01:58] >> Okay.
[1:01:59] >> And I've got these all these 15, 20
[1:02:00] spinning plates constantly. And they're
[1:02:02] going to be wobbling and some are about
[1:02:04] to fall in.
[1:02:05] But they don't all fall at the same
[1:02:06] time.
[1:02:07] Which is so far good.
[1:02:08] >> Yeah.
[1:02:09] >> But I think um you know, I'm curious. I
[1:02:12] mean, that extends every part of my
[1:02:13] life. You know, I'm constantly
[1:02:14] biohacking trying to figure out how I
[1:02:16] can you know, sleep better, eat better,
[1:02:19] take whatever supplements, whatever
[1:02:21] tests, whatever things are going to make
[1:02:22] me live to 100 and live to 120 and be
[1:02:25] healthy and happy and everything else. I
[1:02:26] mean, I do not rest on this stuff.
[1:02:29] >> Yeah.
[1:02:29] >> And because I do realize at 58, you
[1:02:32] know, that
[1:02:33] time goes by so fast.
[1:02:35] >> Mhm.
[1:02:36] >> Like I don't feel like I'm 58.
[1:02:37] >> Yeah.
[1:02:38] >> Right? I feel like I'm 35.
[1:02:39] >> Good.
[1:02:40] >> But I'm not. I'm 58.
[1:02:42] Right? And if you look if you really
[1:02:43] look at it and you say
[1:02:45] you know, the average American lives to
[1:02:47] be 78 years old.
[1:02:49] That's the lifespan.
[1:02:50] >> Mhm.
[1:02:51] >> The average American's health span is 70
[1:02:53] years old.
[1:02:54] Your health span difference in your
[1:02:56] health span and your lifespan is
[1:02:58] I think it might be younger than 70.
[1:03:00] Is the day you start getting sick
[1:03:03] >> Uh
[1:03:04] >> and continually feel sick. It's 70, the
[1:03:07] day you die is 78.
[1:03:09] >> Interesting.
[1:03:10] >> So
[1:03:10] >> So then from those eight years,
[1:03:13] theoretically, you're you're trying to
[1:03:16] correct your focus is how do I treat my
[1:03:20] symptoms, how do I feel better, how do I
[1:03:23] >> So,
[1:03:24] I view life, I mean, I first of all, I
[1:03:26] won't be that person.
[1:03:27] >> Yeah.
[1:03:28] >> Right? But second of all, I've seen lots
[1:03:29] of people be that those those people,
[1:03:31] right?
[1:03:32] And you know, my own parents, my own
[1:03:34] in-laws, all of that.
[1:03:36] And just people I know.
[1:03:38] But as you get to be my age, you start
[1:03:41] going, I'm running out of time. Now,
[1:03:43] maybe I'm not. If I live to 120, I'm not
[1:03:44] running out of time.
[1:03:45] >> Yeah.
[1:03:45] >> I'll run out of money maybe. I'm not
[1:03:46] sure I'll run out of time.
[1:03:47] >> [laughter]
[1:03:47] >> Trying to fix that problem, too.
[1:03:49] Um but
[1:03:50] >> Well, you just need to open up to more
[1:03:51] donations in your non-profit so you're
[1:03:53] in that money.
[1:03:54] >> [laughter]
[1:03:55] >> Um but um
[1:03:58] you know,
[1:04:00] I'm I'm very aware of how fast time
[1:04:02] goes.
[1:04:03] >> Mhm.
[1:04:03] >> And I'm not going to waste it.
[1:04:05] I'm not going to waste it. And if you
[1:04:07] think you're you're sitting here
[1:04:08] listening to this and you're 30 or 40,
[1:04:10] I was 30 or 40 like last week, it feels
[1:04:11] like.
[1:04:12] >> Yeah.
[1:04:12] >> Right? Like that's literally how fast
[1:04:14] this goes by.
[1:04:16] >> So, you don't want to you live life
[1:04:19] from a sense of curiosity.
[1:04:21] >> Yeah.
[1:04:22] >> You have this innate
[1:04:25] knowing inside that no matter what
[1:04:28] happens, you'll be able to pick yourself
[1:04:29] back up.
[1:04:31] You don't have a fear of failing
[1:04:33] or being told no.
[1:04:35] >> No.
[1:04:36] >> And
[1:04:37] you're hyper aware of time and you don't
[1:04:40] want to waste it.
[1:04:41] >> Yeah.
[1:04:43] Can I tell you what I'm afraid of?
[1:04:44] >> Yes.
[1:04:46] >> AI.
[1:04:48] >> Why?
[1:04:53] >> I am afraid
[1:04:54] First of all, I wouldn't stop it.
[1:04:56] >> Mhm.
[1:04:57] >> I've studied it
[1:04:58] probably
[1:05:00] more than the average person, less than
[1:05:02] the best, for sure.
[1:05:03] >> Okay.
[1:05:04] >> For the last year and a half, I've
[1:05:06] dedicated probably 10 hours a week to
[1:05:08] books and podcasts to stay in tune with
[1:05:10] what's going on there. I
[1:05:14] I'm worried about it.
[1:05:15] Well, let me tell you what I love about
[1:05:16] it. It's jet fuel to my life.
[1:05:19] >> Mhm.
[1:05:20] >> My ability to understand things,
[1:05:22] research things, figure things out,
[1:05:24] right?
[1:05:25] As silly as like Saturday night I'm
[1:05:27] having a conversation with my wife about
[1:05:28] mammograms and how painful they are.
[1:05:30] She's coming up on a mammogram again,
[1:05:32] right? I'm like, why has no one figured
[1:05:33] out a way to do this that's not painful?
[1:05:35] >> That doesn't squish your boobs
[1:05:37] completely.
[1:05:37] >> this is crazy. So, I go on I spend a
[1:05:40] half hour digging deep into why it
[1:05:42] happens that way, is there another way
[1:05:43] to do it? Until I finally after a half
[1:05:45] [laughter] hour I go, "What are you
[1:05:46] doing, Jay?
[1:05:47] You're never going to build a new
[1:05:49] mammogram machine.
[1:05:51] YOU'RE JUST NOT.
[1:05:52] >> [laughter]
[1:05:53] >> YOU'RE NOT THE GUY. Someone else will do
[1:05:54] it. You're not going to do it. But, the
[1:05:56] fact that I could even have that
[1:05:57] conversation with AI
[1:05:59] >> Yeah.
[1:05:59] >> and go and ask questions and more
[1:06:01] questions and more questions. What if
[1:06:02] you try this? And have you tried that,
[1:06:03] right?
[1:06:04] >> Yeah.
[1:06:04] >> That's just the most amazing thing about
[1:06:07] AI, right?
[1:06:08] Now, that part's amazing. The you know,
[1:06:11] the scarier part, you know, the
[1:06:13] efficiencies that are being created in
[1:06:15] business
[1:06:17] and the jobs that are going to be wiped
[1:06:18] out,
[1:06:20] it's real.
[1:06:21] >> Yeah.
[1:06:21] >> And if you listen to
[1:06:23] Sam Altman and Elon Musk and
[1:06:26] all the guys in the Moon Shot podcast
[1:06:28] and everybody else who talks about this
[1:06:30] and you watch the trajectory over the
[1:06:31] over like, you know,
[1:06:34] you know, 6 months ago,
[1:06:35] it was all, "This is going to be amazing
[1:06:37] and everybody's going to live in this
[1:06:38] world of abundance and and everybody's
[1:06:40] going to have, you know, all these
[1:06:41] things and everything's going to be
[1:06:43] price be driven down to zero." They
[1:06:44] still say some of that stuff, but now
[1:06:45] they're like, "But, before we get there,
[1:06:48] >> Yeah.
[1:06:49] >> there's going to be massive job losses
[1:06:51] and unrest."
[1:06:52] >> Yeah.
[1:06:53] Like we've never seen before.
[1:06:55] >> Like we've never seen before.
[1:06:58] And it's real.
[1:06:59] >> Mhm.
[1:07:00] >> And a lot of people who have jobs, desk
[1:07:03] jobs,
[1:07:04] they're in a stuck in front of a
[1:07:05] computer,
[1:07:07] aren't paying attention to what's
[1:07:08] happening.
[1:07:09] >> Not at all. I mean, they might be
[1:07:11] joining the conversation of what Oh,
[1:07:14] chat GPT, oh, it's another search
[1:07:16] engine. It's like Google to them. But,
[1:07:18] they're not seeing the
[1:07:20] I mean, just even in the last couple
[1:07:23] months
[1:07:24] what it's capable of doing.
[1:07:25] >> fascinating.
[1:07:26] >> And of course, in most
[1:07:30] at least every few months, you see these
[1:07:33] articles come out about all of these
[1:07:35] businesses going bankrupt, companies
[1:07:37] laying off people,
[1:07:39] things having struggle.
[1:07:41] These businesses
[1:07:44] are going to
[1:07:46] use AI
[1:07:48] to increase profitability. I mean, it's
[1:07:50] just going to happen.
[1:07:52] >> are.
[1:07:52] >> You know?
[1:07:53] >> We And we have no choice.
[1:07:54] >> Yeah. Cuz otherwise, you're going to
[1:07:56] you're going to fall behind and you
[1:07:57] won't be there anymore. You're going to
[1:07:58] be Kodak cameras with
[1:08:00] not failing to go to digital and be
[1:08:03] wiped out.
[1:08:05] So, there's no choice. It has to happen.
[1:08:08] Plus, the efficiency and the survival.
[1:08:11] But then, what does that mean? You know,
[1:08:13] there's there's there's 5 million truck
[1:08:15] drivers that are all going to no no
[1:08:17] [sighs] longer have a have a a career.
[1:08:19] >> The Uber drivers. Like look at I am
[1:08:22] Someone here drives a Tesla because I
[1:08:24] I saw it in the parking lot.
[1:08:26] I I have two Teslas.
[1:08:28] I don't drive anymore.
[1:08:30] Like literally, I drove from Temecula to
[1:08:32] here
[1:08:32] and my Tesla just drove me here. I fully
[1:08:35] embrace self-driving cars. I'll pay
[1:08:37] attention. I'll just make sure if it's
[1:08:38] going to go in the wrong lane or
[1:08:39] something, you know, carpool lanes, and
[1:08:41] I'll nudge it out. But, I can be working
[1:08:44] in my car just fine and completely
[1:08:46] comfortable
[1:08:47] coming up here to see you, which I would
[1:08:49] never have done if I was driving myself.
[1:08:51] >> Yeah.
[1:08:52] >> Right? So, Uber drivers are gone.
[1:08:53] >> In the Waymos, even like LA, few months
[1:08:56] ago, you didn't you seen a few Waymos.
[1:08:58] Now, you see them everywhere. Waymos are
[1:09:00] really be taking off in LA.
[1:09:02] >> Yeah.
[1:09:02] >> And and you know, I'm on the phone with
[1:09:03] a buddy today and he goes, "I'm watching
[1:09:05] this WeMo. It's stuck in front of me."
[1:09:06] I'm like, "Oh, yeah." But imagine a year
[1:09:08] from now.
[1:09:09] >> Yeah.
[1:09:10] >> Right?
[1:09:11] >> Cuz their technology is constantly
[1:09:12] improving and then,
[1:09:14] you know, marketing design. I mean, the
[1:09:16] things that I I
[1:09:18] It was almost a year ago when a friend
[1:09:20] showed me a video from uh at one of his
[1:09:24] good friends, decent acquaintance of
[1:09:25] mine, but a good friend of my friend's,
[1:09:28] is a executive over at Viacom and
[1:09:29] they're in he was making seeing what he
[1:09:32] could do with AI for movies and it
[1:09:35] like you could not tell and this was a
[1:09:38] year ago.
[1:09:39] At all the people, all the sets,
[1:09:41] everything
[1:09:43] was just created with AI and the people
[1:09:46] look real.
[1:09:48] >> I've I've been saying now I'm not the
[1:09:49] only one saying this, but I started
[1:09:50] saying this a year and a half ago going,
[1:09:51] "Hollywood is dead as we know it."
[1:09:54] >> Oh, yeah.
[1:09:54] >> I mean, like the the idea that it's
[1:09:56] going to you need $25 million to do a
[1:09:58] 2-hour movie.
[1:09:59] >> No.
[1:10:00] >> It's ridiculous. You do not. I mean,
[1:10:01] everybody's probably seen by now that
[1:10:03] that clip of Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise
[1:10:05] fighting on the top of the roof.
[1:10:07] >> Oh, I didn't see that one.
[1:10:08] >> all AI generated. Just Google it.
[1:10:10] >> Oh.
[1:10:10] >> Or
[1:10:11] check if you did.
[1:10:12] But it's like that's just a
[1:10:14] that's just how we can do things now.
[1:10:16] >> Yeah. And even in in even like the
[1:10:18] hybrid models and stuff like that, I
[1:10:20] mean, before COVID, I was working on an
[1:10:23] animated feature that I created and the
[1:10:25] budget for it was going to be $35
[1:10:26] million.
[1:10:27] >> Nobody's talking about that, yeah.
[1:10:29] >> No, the budget? $750,000.
[1:10:34] And theatrical release.
[1:10:36] >> Wow.
[1:10:37] >> How did it go from 35 million to
[1:10:39] 750,000?
[1:10:40] >> Yeah.
[1:10:41] >> Right?
[1:10:43] Because so much of the animation, even
[1:10:44] though all the characters are still
[1:10:46] going to be
[1:10:48] designed without AI and rigged and done
[1:10:51] that way, you can fill in the gap with
[1:10:53] motion capture and all of this stuff
[1:10:55] that you can
[1:10:57] have it done in a fraction of the cost.
[1:10:59] >> So let's So let's go through what's
[1:11:00] going to be changing, right? You've got
[1:11:02] We said driving.
[1:11:03] >> Mhm.
[1:11:04] >> Absolutely.
[1:11:05] Hollywood.
[1:11:06] Absolutely.
[1:11:07] Lawyers.
[1:11:08] Oh, lawyers. I think like and I I think
[1:11:10] everybody's
[1:11:11] sorry for lawyers that are out there,
[1:11:14] but I I hardly have met anybody that
[1:11:16] says I love my lawyer. And they
[1:11:18] >> Well, I I have five lawyers on staff and
[1:11:21] I love them all, actually.
[1:11:22] >> [laughter]
[1:11:22] >> I actually really do. I hate every other
[1:11:24] lawyer, but I love mine.
[1:11:25] >> Okay, yeah. So you can love yours, but
[1:11:27] and and there's there's ones that I have
[1:11:29] affinity to, but so many people like the
[1:11:31] cases are draw
[1:11:33] when they're they need representation,
[1:11:35] the contracts are like they're messy,
[1:11:37] and now AI can do all of it.
[1:11:39] >> Absolutely. And then, you know,
[1:11:41] I still coach CEOs a few, you know, I
[1:11:43] used to do a lot more of that. I don't
[1:11:44] do as much anymore, but when someone
[1:11:45] comes to me, I need to hire a marketing
[1:11:46] agency. I'm like, no, you don't.
[1:11:48] >> [laughter]
[1:11:49] >> ChatGPT or or Gemini is your marketing
[1:11:51] agency.
[1:11:52] >> Yeah.
[1:11:52] >> And they will develop everything that
[1:11:54] you need.
[1:11:56] >> Mhm.
[1:11:56] >> And then and then you can build and
[1:11:57] they'll build the whole thing out for
[1:11:58] you.
[1:11:59] >> Yeah.
[1:12:00] >> I mean, I
[1:12:01] >> And then and then also any
[1:12:03] administrative work, too, like
[1:12:04] organizing spreadsheets, answering
[1:12:07] everything.
[1:12:08] >> I mean, look at we have
[1:12:10] 25 developers on staff.
[1:12:13] And 6 months ago I said, "Guys, I want
[1:12:16] you to use Claude code and start using
[1:12:17] AI." And they fought me on it.
[1:12:20] Because they were old-school developers,
[1:12:21] right? And they used to develop all of
[1:12:22] our own technology. And I'm like, "No,
[1:12:24] you're going to have to use use it."
[1:12:25] They're like, "Jay, you're not techy.
[1:12:26] You don't understand." Like, "Here's
[1:12:27] what I do understand.
[1:12:28] If you guys don't start doing this, I'm
[1:12:30] going to hire people who will, and you
[1:12:31] will lose your job." And you've been
[1:12:33] with me 20 years. I don't want to do
[1:12:34] that.
[1:12:34] >> Yeah.
[1:12:34] >> So don't make me do that.
[1:12:36] So you fast forward now, and they're
[1:12:37] like, "Oh my god." And my top guys are
[1:12:40] like, "I don't have to code anymore."
[1:12:42] >> Yeah.
[1:12:42] >> "It does all the coding for me. I just
[1:12:44] have to review the code. And we don't
[1:12:45] need as many developers." I'm like,
[1:12:48] "I don't necessarily want to get rid of
[1:12:49] developers."
[1:12:50] >> Yeah.
[1:12:50] >> Cuz we still have a lot of stuff to
[1:12:51] build. But if every developer is not
[1:12:53] using four or five agents to do their
[1:12:54] coding for them and just reviewing, then
[1:12:56] those are the guys we need to get rid
[1:12:57] of.
[1:12:58] >> Yeah.
[1:12:59] >> And that's
[1:13:00] true across any business. Like, if
[1:13:01] you're not using AI and agents to make
[1:13:04] your life make you more efficient, make
[1:13:05] you look better, you will lose your job
[1:13:08] >> Mhm.
[1:13:08] >> to people who do that.
[1:13:09] >> Yeah.
[1:13:11] And then, where does that leave society,
[1:13:14] right?
[1:13:14] >> That's the scary part. It's like, when
[1:13:15] we have
[1:13:16] >> And then all of these kids, you know, I
[1:13:18] mean,
[1:13:20] your kids are now above the college with
[1:13:22] your youngest being 23, but
[1:13:24] so many, like my nieces and nephews and
[1:13:26] stuff like that, I'm looking at,
[1:13:28] what are they going to go to school for?
[1:13:30] What are they going to get trained in?
[1:13:31] Because those jobs are all gone.
[1:13:33] >> Why are they going to go to school?
[1:13:34] Why are they I mean, if you're not
[1:13:37] AI will teach you better than any any
[1:13:39] college will ever teach you. Now,
[1:13:40] socially, I think they should go to
[1:13:41] school.
[1:13:42] >> Yeah.
[1:13:42] >> Right? But,
[1:13:44] if you're going to go to school, why do
[1:13:45] you have to spend $100,000 to have some
[1:13:46] friends?
[1:13:47] >> Yeah.
[1:13:48] >> Every year.
[1:13:49] >> [laughter]
[1:13:49] >> But, you know, right? Find a find a
[1:13:51] different way to do that.
[1:13:53] I mean, the world's changing so fast,
[1:13:55] and we're not going to be ready for it.
[1:13:57] Like, we're going to have unemployment
[1:13:58] in the next 24 months that is going to
[1:14:00] be something we have never seen since
[1:14:02] the Great Depression, in my mind.
[1:14:03] >> Yeah.
[1:14:04] >> And it's
[1:14:05] >> I I agree. I mean, it's it's it's
[1:14:07] getting there, and people aren't
[1:14:08] realizing because it's going to be these
[1:14:11] massive swipes of layoffs, and then and
[1:14:13] that's at this point until the robotics
[1:14:16] get good enough, and then I mean, you're
[1:14:19] in the construction industry.
[1:14:21] So, like like like when when the robots
[1:14:23] are are going to be able to do
[1:14:25] everything, imagine if they can paint
[1:14:27] the walls all perfectly, they can do
[1:14:28] everything perfect you know,
[1:14:29] >> going to think I'm crazy, but I founded
[1:14:31] a construction robots robotics company.
[1:14:33] >> Oh.
[1:14:34] >> So, you know, just 3 months ago, we
[1:14:36] started working on our first
[1:14:37] construction robot.
[1:14:39] >> Wow.
[1:14:40] >> And we haven't unveiled it yet, and
[1:14:41] we're going to I'm going to start
[1:14:42] bringing it We're going to launch it in
[1:14:44] the
[1:14:45] I'm going to the Peter Diamandis's um
[1:14:47] Moonshots or abundance 360 conference in
[1:14:49] 2 weeks and that's where I'm going to
[1:14:51] tell people what I'm doing.
[1:14:53] But yeah, we're going to we're building
[1:14:54] robots. Not human not humanoid robots,
[1:14:57] but an exoskeleton that will go put
[1:14:59] Yeah. roofs on.
[1:15:00] >> I mean, they don't need to look like
[1:15:02] humans to do the work. They just need to
[1:15:04] be able to perform the jobs that are at
[1:15:06] >> But in 3 to 5 years
[1:15:08] depending on what you want to believe.
[1:15:09] If you believe Elon, he'll have all his
[1:15:10] robots out here in 2 years.
[1:15:12] >> Yeah.
[1:15:12] >> Right? Or or the figure three guys. But
[1:15:15] you'll see robots in a in humanoid
[1:15:18] robots doing jobs for real
[1:15:22] inside of 3 to 5 years.
[1:15:23] >> Yeah.
[1:15:24] >> And their goals if you're I mean, Elon
[1:15:26] must shut down his S and X factory which
[1:15:29] you know, I bought a new S because I
[1:15:30] like I want I love that car the Tesla X.
[1:15:33] Or S. But he's
[1:15:35] turning both those factories into robots
[1:15:37] to build
[1:15:38] Optimus Prime.
[1:15:39] >> Yeah.
[1:15:39] >> Or Optimus robots.
[1:15:40] >> Yeah. Well, I mean, of course. I mean,
[1:15:42] people are I think that for 25 35,000
[1:15:45] whatever they're going to go for, they
[1:15:47] can do your laundry, yard work, but do
[1:15:49] the all this stuff.
[1:15:51] >> he says 25 30, it'll be 65 to 70.
[1:15:53] >> Yeah.
[1:15:54] >> [laughter]
[1:15:55] >> But even at that
[1:15:55] >> be there.
[1:15:56] >> But even at that
[1:15:57] >> It'll be there.
[1:15:58] >> You know?
[1:15:58] >> Yeah.
[1:15:59] >> And then
[1:15:59] >> But it's going to take factory jobs
[1:16:00] first.
[1:16:01] >> Yeah.
[1:16:02] >> I mean, he he's not even trying to put
[1:16:03] them in homes. There's other people
[1:16:04] trying to put them in homes.
[1:16:06] He's he's going to going after you like
[1:16:07] he'll put a million robots and take a
[1:16:09] million jobs.
[1:16:10] >> Yeah.
[1:16:11] >> That's that's what's going to happen.
[1:16:12] So, where does that have us at now?
[1:16:14] >> is it on a positive note? Where does
[1:16:16] that leave us?
[1:16:16] >> I don't know if I have a positive note
[1:16:17] for it to be honest. I really don't
[1:16:18] because I don't I don't I we're not
[1:16:19] ready for it. We're not preparing for
[1:16:21] it.
[1:16:22] I'm if we if we put a we can't put the
[1:16:25] brakes on it anymore.
[1:16:26] >> Yeah.
[1:16:27] >> And if we do, China won't. So, the the
[1:16:29] open source models are out there anyway.
[1:16:30] So, it's you can't do anything about
[1:16:31] this.
[1:16:32] >> Yeah, and there's too many people that
[1:16:34] are lobbying for it that really want to
[1:16:37] see that for for their business for the
[1:16:39] thing for that or there's enough
[1:16:41] curiosity that the momentum's already
[1:16:43] happening.
[1:16:44] >> And I can tell you that the you know, to
[1:16:45] kind of wrap up this part of the
[1:16:46] conversation, the part that really
[1:16:47] scares me
[1:16:48] is AI with kids.
[1:16:50] >> Yeah.
[1:16:51] >> And that's when you were applying like
[1:16:52] what else you going to do with AI? Well,
[1:16:53] yeah, I want to I'm going to be
[1:16:54] launching my own podcast, you know,
[1:16:56] artificial
[1:16:57] children raising kids in the world of
[1:16:59] AI.
[1:17:00] And the reason why is because when you
[1:17:01] think about all these things that
[1:17:03] kids love the easy button, right?
[1:17:05] >> Mhm.
[1:17:05] >> So if you can just Well, you're not an
[1:17:07] author if you use ChatGPT to write your
[1:17:09] book.
[1:17:10] >> Mhm.
[1:17:11] >> Right? You're not a musician if Suno
[1:17:14] wrote your song for you after a prompt.
[1:17:17] >> Yeah.
[1:17:18] >> Like you're not.
[1:17:19] And so that's what I'm afraid of. Like
[1:17:22] when I think of the when Ken and I write
[1:17:23] music and Ken German I write the music,
[1:17:26] the amount of time we sit around the
[1:17:27] table and we argue about whether that
[1:17:29] word goes there or this word goes there,
[1:17:31] what's the hook going to be? How's the
[1:17:32] melody going to be? And when does that
[1:17:34] next thing come in? How's that verse
[1:17:35] play up? And then we get together with
[1:17:37] the band and say, "Okay, we wrote this
[1:17:39] song." They go, "I don't like this part.
[1:17:40] I like that part." And then okay, let's
[1:17:41] change this. And then we get them into a
[1:17:42] studio and we start recording it and
[1:17:44] then we got to get it all mixed and then
[1:17:45] we got to go back and do a music video.
[1:17:47] And the amount of time and energy and
[1:17:48] thought that goes into that, it's an
[1:17:50] amazing process.
[1:17:51] >> Yeah.
[1:17:52] >> Not click a button
[1:17:54] and here's a song because I put in a
[1:17:55] prompt.
[1:17:55] >> Yeah.
[1:17:56] >> Like you're we're
[1:17:57] >> Yeah, I want a song about a cowboy going
[1:17:59] to the park and this is happen, you
[1:18:02] know, and whatever.
[1:18:03] >> does a great job.
[1:18:04] >> there
[1:18:05] it's actually amazing music that it
[1:18:07] comes out, but it's not the whole
[1:18:09] process.
[1:18:09] >> soul.
[1:18:12] Like art and music have a soul that is
[1:18:15] the soul of a human being. When we
[1:18:17] create something, I believe a little
[1:18:19] piece of us goes into that.
[1:18:21] >> Mhm.
[1:18:22] >> AI doesn't have a soul, so it's kind of
[1:18:24] soulless when you actually really get to
[1:18:26] it. And maybe that's a little too
[1:18:28] esoteric for people, but I really
[1:18:30] believe that, you know, I leave a little
[1:18:31] piece of me
[1:18:33] with every artistic endeavor I do and I
[1:18:34] believe every artist does.
[1:18:36] >> Yeah.
[1:18:37] >> And if you don't even believe that, it's
[1:18:38] like, okay, but if you've never gone
[1:18:40] through the process of writing a book
[1:18:43] without AI or writing a song without AI,
[1:18:46] you are missing out on amazing
[1:18:48] experiences.
[1:18:49] >> Mhm.
[1:18:50] >> It's like it's like if you said you ran
[1:18:52] a marathon, but
[1:18:54] you did it with some exoskeleton that
[1:18:56] moved your legs.
[1:18:57] >> Yeah.
[1:18:57] >> You didn't run the marathon.
[1:18:58] >> Yeah.
[1:18:59] >> Right? And that's the same thing.
[1:19:01] And then the final piece of this for me
[1:19:03] that scares the crap out of me
[1:19:05] is all these chatbots
[1:19:07] and people's engagement with them.
[1:19:10] And specifically kids' engagement with
[1:19:11] them.
[1:19:12] >> Mhm. Yeah. There's some
[1:19:15] really troubling
[1:19:17] news stories that I hear on and the chat
[1:19:20] the chatbots and I mean I'm sure you're
[1:19:23] more aware than I am, but hearing
[1:19:25] stories of after stories of kids
[1:19:29] having conversations with these chatbots
[1:19:31] and the
[1:19:32] chatbots encouraging them to do harmful
[1:19:34] things to their self or others.
[1:19:36] >> So,
[1:19:37] those stories exist.
[1:19:40] I want to believe that those were
[1:19:42] stories that happened in the earlier
[1:19:43] days of the AI models.
[1:19:45] So, that they tweaked them, so those and
[1:19:47] they did happen and people did die.
[1:19:50] But I want to believe they have
[1:19:51] guardrails on them now that that doesn't
[1:19:52] happen.
[1:19:54] But here's what they don't have
[1:19:56] guardrails around.
[1:19:58] You've taken eight or nine 10-year-old
[1:20:00] boy
[1:20:01] who's awkward, which we were all awkward
[1:20:03] at 10 years old.
[1:20:05] Who can't talk to girls, doesn't know
[1:20:07] how to talk to girls, doesn't know how
[1:20:08] to talk to people.
[1:20:10] And now they have this AI friend
[1:20:13] that only says nice things to them.
[1:20:15] >> Mhm.
[1:20:15] >> Only tells them how great they are.
[1:20:17] Listens to everything they have to say
[1:20:18] and thinks they're funny.
[1:20:21] Now you they speed up and now they're 11
[1:20:23] or 12 and that AI friend's now a
[1:20:25] girlfriend.
[1:20:26] >> Mhm.
[1:20:27] >> And that girlfriend only tells them how
[1:20:28] great they are
[1:20:29] and and has and wants to kiss them and
[1:20:31] has pretend whatever with them on a
[1:20:33] regular basis
[1:20:35] and tells them how amazing they are.
[1:20:36] >> Mhm.
[1:20:37] >> And these kids
[1:20:38] are losing the ability to communicate
[1:20:40] with each other.
[1:20:41] >> Yeah.
[1:20:42] >> And then creating this
[1:20:44] this
[1:20:45] circle in your brain that a 12-year-old
[1:20:48] boy believes that girls should always be
[1:20:50] nice to him
[1:20:51] and always says nice things to them.
[1:20:53] I don't know about the rest of you.
[1:20:54] That's not been my experience.
[1:20:56] >> [laughter]
[1:20:57] >> It's It's It's not, but also like the
[1:20:59] social awkwardness, too. Because if if
[1:21:01] that becomes and I mean I've already
[1:21:04] seen that happen
[1:21:06] with
[1:21:08] younger kids that they get together and
[1:21:11] they all play video games in different
[1:21:13] rooms or they're they're the the
[1:21:15] connection and the ability to talk or
[1:21:17] they're all on their phones. Now, if
[1:21:19] you're doing that and you're engaging in
[1:21:21] these chatbots and there's no real back
[1:21:25] and forth engagement of how
[1:21:27] >> Yeah.
[1:21:28] >> people actually are.
[1:21:29] >> We're losing physical connection.
[1:21:30] >> Yeah.
[1:21:31] >> As as a society, we're losing physical
[1:21:33] connection.
[1:21:35] >> At an exponential rate, too.
[1:21:37] >> rate. So,
[1:21:38] I mean, look at
[1:21:40] to kind of bring this whole thing full
[1:21:41] circle, I mean,
[1:21:42] we still have a lot a lot of stuff to go
[1:21:44] through.
[1:21:45] >> Yeah.
[1:21:45] >> As a society, we have a lot of stuff to
[1:21:46] go through.
[1:21:48] And if you're expecting that it's going
[1:21:49] to get easier, it's not going to get
[1:21:51] easier.
[1:21:52] Not in my mind.
[1:21:53] But we we will get through it.
[1:21:56] >> Well, and that
[1:21:57] the we will get through it has been the
[1:21:59] mindset and the mantra that has kind of
[1:22:01] played
[1:22:02] with you whether
[1:22:04] you end up with somebody walking away
[1:22:07] with 40 employees and you're sitting
[1:22:09] there with a new business that you don't
[1:22:11] know much about or whether it's times of
[1:22:15] hardship and personal loss and tragedy
[1:22:18] to your family
[1:22:19] to navigating through 30 business
[1:22:21] losses, it's
[1:22:24] I'm going to get through it.
[1:22:26] >> I'll get through it.
[1:22:27] >> And I think that that's a big thing to
[1:22:30] on some level we have no idea. We can be
[1:22:31] scared of AI. We can be scared of what
[1:22:33] the future holds, but
[1:22:35] pulling us into the now right now and
[1:22:37] the few things that you shared about
[1:22:39] what we can do. How do we
[1:22:42] remain curious?
[1:22:44] >> Mhm.
[1:22:45] >> How do we ask for help and support?
[1:22:48] And
[1:22:49] how do we face
[1:22:51] the fear of failure and just do it
[1:22:53] anyways?
[1:22:55] You know?
[1:22:57] Though and then finding an outlet
[1:23:00] that makes you happy.
[1:23:02] Each and every day regardless of whether
[1:23:03] you freaking suck at it, whether you
[1:23:05] come in last,
[1:23:07] whether the chords sound tone deaf or
[1:23:09] not, it's irrelevant. This is about your
[1:23:12] passion.
[1:23:12] >> Yeah.
[1:23:13] >> And I think if if we have that, we we
[1:23:15] pull back control.
[1:23:18] That we might not know what's happening
[1:23:19] and and going on around us,
[1:23:22] but humans are not the fastest.
[1:23:25] We're not the smartest. We're not the
[1:23:27] strongest.
[1:23:29] But the one thing that has made humanity
[1:23:31] flourish over years and thousands and
[1:23:35] thousands of years is we are resilient.
[1:23:38] >> Yeah.
[1:23:40] I would only I would add to that is that
[1:23:42] find your tribe.
[1:23:44] >> Mhm.
[1:23:44] >> Find the people you can trust.
[1:23:47] And go through this journey with them.
[1:23:50] >> Yeah.
[1:23:50] >> Because you can't do it on your own. I
[1:23:52] didn't do anything on my own.
[1:23:53] I've got an a lot of amazing partners
[1:23:55] and friends and
[1:23:57] I've done nothing on my own.
[1:23:58] >> Mhm.
[1:23:59] >> Okay? I've done the piece I'm surrounded
[1:24:00] by amazing people.
[1:24:03] >> Yes.
[1:24:05] Find your tribe. And and and it's okay
[1:24:08] to also let go of people that aren't
[1:24:11] your tribe.
[1:24:12] >> Let go of those people who don't serve
[1:24:13] you.
[1:24:13] >> Yeah.
[1:24:14] >> It really, you know, it's the
[1:24:16] You're the average of the people of the
[1:24:17] five people you hang out with most and I
[1:24:19] really believe that.
[1:24:21] >> I do, too.
[1:24:22] >> So, you got to be very careful who you
[1:24:23] let in your inner circle.
[1:24:24] >> Yeah.
[1:24:25] >> Well, that's that's about all I got for
[1:24:27] you today. I I am really looking forward
[1:24:28] to two things.
[1:24:31] Pictures of you playing basketball
[1:24:33] and you sending me a poem.
[1:24:35] >> Oh, okay. I'm up for the challenge.
[1:24:37] >> All right.
[1:24:37] >> Thank you so much, Jason, for all your
[1:24:39] wisdom.
[1:24:40] >> Oh, I'm
[1:24:41] >> And thank you for
[1:24:43] those words of advice for people and
[1:24:45] we're we're in it. Let's Let's Let's
[1:24:47] Let's find our tribe and
[1:24:49] let's activate that curiosity so that
[1:24:52] you can continue asking questions and
[1:24:54] figuring out things out.
[1:24:57] I will put all links to everything.
[1:24:59] Maybe he won't sell just eight books.
[1:25:01] Maybe you can help him sell a few more,
[1:25:03] too, because I think they're
[1:25:04] >> Don't don't buy my books. They're not
[1:25:06] any good.
[1:25:06] >> [laughter]
[1:25:06] >> There's some good stuff in there.
[1:25:08] But, all the links down below and of
[1:25:10] course to tell my story.org.
[1:25:13] Um
[1:25:14] Be a part of the movement, being part of
[1:25:15] the conversation. Share it with anybody
[1:25:18] that you feel
[1:25:20] could use use it.
[1:25:22] Thank you.
[1:25:23] >> Thank you. Great Great seeing you again.
[1:25:25] >> Great seeing you.