Transcript
[0:00] They found the radiologist that had a
[0:03] lot of historic knowledge. So, they knew
[0:06] what right looks like. They used the AI.
[0:08] They could basically evaluate
[0:12] basically the AI would provide the
[0:13] initial and the radiologist could
[0:15] basically comb through.
[0:18] The radiologist with years of
[0:19] experience, the combination of human
[0:22] intelligence and artificial intelligence
[0:25] was a combat multiplier. But, the
[0:27] younger radiologist without that
[0:30] historical database, they were
[0:32] misdiagnosing. Now, when the machine
[0:35] made an error, they couldn't identify it
[0:37] because they didn't have the database.
[0:39] So, that's [music] the risk.
[0:40] Specifically, when you're in a critical
[0:42] profession and you haven't had to
[0:44] critically think are [music] you
[0:46] if you're just relying on the machine
[0:48] outcome, they've tended to agree even
[0:51] when the machine was wrong, they
[0:54] defaulted. They said, "I think I'm
[0:55] right, but I'll default to the machine."
[0:58] That's scary.
[0:59] >> Dr. Robert Carter, thanks for coming on
[1:01] the podcast today.
[1:03] >> Thank Les. Really, thanks for the
[1:05] opportunity to talk with you today.
[1:07] >> Yeah, man. I'm glad you reached out.
[1:08] There are a couple things in your email
[1:11] that sparked my interest. I know you
[1:12] have a new book coming out, The
[1:14] Convenience Trap.
[1:16] How to regain control in a world of
[1:18] instant gratification?
[1:20] I think that's probably a topic on a lot
[1:23] of people's minds over the last several
[1:24] years. Especially, it seems like
[1:27] every day lately you we hear something
[1:30] that's going on in the world of
[1:33] AI and how it's altering our our lives
[1:36] or infiltrating our culture or society
[1:39] that seems to be offering
[1:42] some form of convenience. And there's
[1:44] probably a part of us all deep down that
[1:46] knows
[1:48] or at least questions like, "What is the
[1:50] price we are paying for this?"
[1:53] Why did you write this book, Rob?
[1:56] >> Yes.
[1:57] So,
[1:58] as I mentioned before, as we were
[2:00] talking, we wrote a book called The
[2:02] Morning Mind, which was released
[2:04] international bestseller 2019. This This
[2:07] continued to do well.
[2:09] In 2021,
[2:11] we were living in Austin, Texas
[2:14] during a period what is now known as the
[2:16] snow big Eden,
[2:17] where we begin to realize that all the
[2:20] conveniences
[2:22] tied to electricity
[2:24] and everything, just keeping just enough
[2:27] food.
[2:28] Once we experienced this prolonged
[2:30] period of where we lost power,
[2:33] I was telling my wife I said, "Our life
[2:35] has become way too inconvenient."
[2:38] Especially we have a 12-year-old
[2:40] daughter that has basically grown up in
[2:42] a world that's been accelerated by
[2:44] artificial intelligence
[2:46] and really exacerbated this idea behind
[2:50] instant gratification. So, that was one
[2:52] of the main reasons. It was really a a
[2:54] self-assessment, but then we realized
[2:57] that this was impacting families and
[2:59] individuals in a profound way.
[3:04] >> Got you. So,
[3:07] was this something that you feel like
[3:10] was negatively affecting you personally?
[3:15] >> Yes, 100%.
[3:18] Specifically,
[3:20] as I continue to integrate various what
[3:23] I would say
[3:25] inconveniences, but we take them in as
[3:28] conveniences. So, everything from
[3:32] uh
[3:33] it's much easier at times if you're
[3:35] tired after work to
[3:37] order Uber, you know, Uber Eats or
[3:40] just order takeout.
[3:44] It's also easy to for each individual in
[3:47] a home to order exactly what they what
[3:49] they want as opposed to going through
[3:51] the process of cooking food,
[3:53] conversation. My wife and I both from
[3:55] come from cultures and from South
[3:57] Louisiana, she's from India, where food
[4:00] and the whole process of cooking and
[4:02] preparing the food uh is is part of the
[4:05] overall experience and we found
[4:07] ourselves post-pandemic
[4:09] my daughter wanting pizza, we order
[4:11] pizza, maybe I want Thai, my wife wants
[4:13] something else and we would have food
[4:15] that just magically showed up and it was
[4:17] really stealing our stealing the joy of
[4:20] the overall experience around food.
[4:23] >> Right.
[4:25] Yeah, I mean, there's a paradox cuz
[4:30] it you know, on one hand
[4:32] um
[4:35] you know, you get that convenience where
[4:36] things are easier, which frees up
[4:40] time, which ultimately you can make a
[4:42] case is
[4:44] the most important resource we have. So,
[4:48] in a sense, we're buying our
[4:50] our time back so that we could do things
[4:52] that maybe we would otherwise do, but
[4:54] that might lead to for some people that
[4:57] might mean you have the time to cook
[4:59] with your family, whereas before you
[5:00] didn't.
[5:02] Uh for some people that might mean
[5:04] you spend more time like doom scrolling
[5:07] social media on the couch.
[5:10] >> [laughter]
[5:10] >> So, you know, it's like it's a tool,
[5:12] could be used many ways, but I'm with
[5:14] you like we have always valued
[5:17] um
[5:19] like dinner time as a family and uh
[5:24] kind of no matter what everybody's doing
[5:26] through the day, there's like a implied
[5:29] like an understanding that we're all
[5:30] going to kind of meet for dinner.
[5:32] Um you know, they'll hear me scream
[5:34] dinner through the house and people will
[5:36] just arrive at the table
[5:38] and it's
[5:40] like for me personally, it's very
[5:41] important. Like that's like an anchor.
[5:44] Um
[5:45] it's I don't know, it might even be to a
[5:47] cost like I
[5:49] link my identity to that process maybe
[5:52] more than I should, but um
[5:56] But yeah, I mean we could in theory
[6:00] order Uber Eats and everybody order the
[6:02] same thing, but I guess we choose
[6:05] because we value that to do that, but
[6:07] everybody has different values. So like
[6:09] one person might use
[6:12] all these new conveniences in a
[6:14] different way than someone else just cuz
[6:15] of like taste and preference and all the
[6:17] individual variability that we have as
[6:19] humans.
[6:21] >> Yeah, and and that's and that's one of
[6:22] the one of the things I use that as my
[6:25] example, but one of when people ask me
[6:29] how do you define
[6:32] where convenience may be negatively
[6:34] impacting your life and and areas as you
[6:37] pointed out that may be enhancing your
[6:39] life.
[6:40] And the example I always utilize
[6:43] is uh utilize often is if you think
[6:46] about washing dishes, using a
[6:48] dishwasher. If I never wash a dish again
[6:51] in my life
[6:53] it won't impact me. It it's truly
[6:55] something that's saving time. You have
[6:57] dinner, throw things into the
[6:58] dishwasher.
[7:00] Because generally speaking, there's an
[7:02] output.
[7:04] As opposed to
[7:06] if I the drone delivers milk. But
[7:10] getting, for example, going to the
[7:12] grocery store is one of the ways that I
[7:15] get my steps in. And I know from a
[7:17] longevity perspective, getting steps in,
[7:19] being physically active, as you know
[7:22] is an important way of building
[7:23] capacity. But if I basically allow
[7:27] technology to get everything
[7:29] to me that generally I would utilize to
[7:32] get at least get some physical activity
[7:34] so I get the milk, but I don't get the
[7:36] steps that I know is going to be good
[7:38] for my overall heart health and my
[7:40] overall physical and mental health for
[7:43] the long term. So, I get the milk the
[7:45] drone delivers, but the reality is that
[7:47] the output doesn't The output is I got
[7:50] the milk, but the overall input to my
[7:53] overall health and well-being is lost.
[7:55] So, then I have to figure out okay, how
[7:58] do I get the physical activity? So,
[8:01] maybe I go to the gym. Well, if I can
[8:03] integrate more of my physical activity
[8:05] into my normal daily life, then that
[8:09] basically becomes a time-saving
[8:11] activity. So, that that's where, you
[8:13] know, we you mentioned before around
[8:15] time, if
[8:17] the research and data shows that if you
[8:19] can build physical activity into your
[8:22] life, it becomes a much more sustainable
[8:25] thing. But, if you have to carve out one
[8:27] or two or three hours a week or more as
[8:30] a separate activity, and it's only thing
[8:31] you're really getting out of it is the
[8:32] actual physical activity, that's
[8:34] generally where people buy the gym
[8:36] membership or they get the gym
[8:37] membership for their birthday or
[8:39] Christmas, and two or three months into
[8:41] it, they say, "I don't have time for
[8:42] this." And so, part of this philosophy
[8:45] is that the more we can basically build
[8:47] in
[8:48] physical activity, build in activities
[8:51] within to within our normal daily life,
[8:53] it becomes
[8:55] easier to support as opposed to a
[8:58] separate activity.
[9:01] >> Got you.
[9:02] It What kind of doctor are you, Robert?
[9:05] >> So, I I am a physiologist. My I have a
[9:08] doctorate in in physiology and a
[9:10] master's degree in chronic disease
[9:12] epidemiology. I received my training as
[9:15] a medical scientist at a medical school,
[9:17] but as opposed to clinical medicine, I
[9:20] pursued a path of of science.
[9:24] >> Okay. So, then
[9:25] what do you mean? Like, what other than
[9:27] writing books, what is What do you spend
[9:29] your time doing for work?
[9:31] >> So, so currently, I serve as as a chief
[9:34] of staff within a military organization.
[9:38] I'm still at I'm actually still active
[9:39] duty. I'm an active duty colonel.
[9:40] >> Oh, okay.
[9:41] >> But and I teach adjunct
[9:45] as in an emergency medicine department
[9:47] at a university and also teach nutrition
[9:51] and and biology at another institution.
[9:54] So, a wide variety of things I'm engaged
[9:57] in and I spend a lot of time doing
[9:58] non-for-profit work as well.
[10:01] >> And what was the other book that you
[10:02] said So, your new book, The Convenience
[10:04] Trap, is not out yet from what I
[10:05] understand, but your previous book, The
[10:08] Morning Mind, that is out, correct?
[10:11] >> That is correct. That is out. It's
[10:13] It's been out since 2019
[10:15] and it's continued It's been translated
[10:17] in 13, 14 different languages
[10:21] and continues to actually
[10:23] do well. You know, it's it's it's a
[10:26] timeless book. I think there's
[10:27] information that we talk about in that
[10:30] book is just
[10:32] is just critical to basically being
[10:35] human. So, the the thesis in that book
[10:38] is what you do for the first hour, 2
[10:41] hours of being awake sets the tone for
[10:45] throughout the day. So, if you start
[10:46] your day off stressful,
[10:49] electronic devices,
[10:52] just not doing the things to prepare
[10:53] your body for the day, and that doesn't
[10:55] have to be an hour or 2 hours, but 15
[10:59] minutes, whatever that routine is,
[11:01] establishing a routine that involves
[11:04] some transition between
[11:06] basically being asleep and being awake
[11:09] is going to basically improve your
[11:10] overall quality throughout the day. In
[11:13] graduate school, we did a lot of
[11:15] research on sleep deprivation, sleep
[11:17] restriction, sleep apnea, sleep
[11:19] disorders, and I continued much of that
[11:22] research early in my military career,
[11:24] and I can tell you fundamentally
[11:27] sleep is important, being awake is
[11:29] important, but that period of time of
[11:32] going from being asleep to being awake
[11:35] plays a critical role in the overall
[11:38] transition. Specifically, if you're
[11:40] startled, if you uh uh
[11:43] uh if you're
[11:44] uh if you wake up due to like a loud
[11:46] noise or some activity and you just jump
[11:49] right out of bed because you're late for
[11:51] work, that's a very different daily
[11:54] experience than actually transitioning
[11:56] smoothly. And so, the book basically
[11:58] goes through that process and and also
[12:00] gets into the science and psychology
[12:03] behind time management.
[12:06] >> Well, say more. I mean, it sounds So, I
[12:08] assume that you spend a lot of time
[12:10] configuring
[12:12] a
[12:14] uh morning routine that leans towards
[12:16] optimizing something about being a
[12:18] human.
[12:20] Like, what do you What are the
[12:21] recommendations, Doc?
[12:23] >> Yes. So, so first of all, the
[12:25] recommendations
[12:27] is something around mindfulness. I
[12:31] actually do a breath-based meditation in
[12:34] the morning. For some people, that may
[12:36] be and also incorporating some degree of
[12:40] movement. And that could be yoga, that
[12:42] could be stretching. We also practice
[12:44] martial arts. So, I'm ages Some
[12:46] mornings, I'll do yoga. Some mornings, I
[12:49] will actually just do my Taekwondo
[12:52] routine. I'll just do some light
[12:55] stretching and I'll go through,
[12:57] especially when I'm preparing for
[12:58] competition, I'll take that time to not
[13:02] generate all the force and power, but to
[13:04] go through the moves. Basically, turn my
[13:07] Taekwondo routine in more of like a Tai
[13:09] Chi, but I'm going through the actual
[13:12] sequence. Also,
[13:14] >> So, wait. You actively compete in
[13:17] Taekwondo?
[13:18] >> I'm actually
[13:20] I'm 53. 53.
[13:22] >> Sweet.
[13:23] >> Yes, and I'm a four-time world champion.
[13:25] know, when most recent world title,
[13:27] uh this past this past summer in in 26,
[13:30] yeah.
[13:31] >> All right, I'll keep my distance.
[13:33] >> [laughter]
[13:34] >> So, I like to I like to say at you know,
[13:36] at 26, I can still do roundhouse kicks,
[13:38] backflips,
[13:40] uh uh aerial cartwheels, and and and
[13:43] that's part of the
[13:44] the lifetime
[13:46] I know guys in their 70s that can still
[13:48] do cartwheels, backflips, that actually
[13:51] train. So, that's an important aspect
[13:54] about I think holistic health and
[13:56] fitness and really staying active
[13:57] throughout your life, not just
[13:59] physically but mentally active as well.
[14:01] And having a morning routine. I think
[14:03] the morning routine is critical. So, the
[14:05] other aspect that that kind of will put
[14:07] me on this path was I wasn't doing that.
[14:10] And again, the Morning Mind, the
[14:12] Convenience Trap has a personal
[14:14] connection. These are not things that I
[14:17] That's theory, it's things that I
[14:18] personally had to put into practice.
[14:21] Basically,
[14:22] in 2010, I deployed to Afghanistan, came
[14:25] back from Afghanistan, I was stationed
[14:28] in Stuttgart, Germany, where I traveled
[14:30] really throughout the African continent.
[14:32] And
[14:34] one day I was in Kenya and I was uh
[14:37] medevac'd back to Germany, where I spent
[14:39] 21 days in the hospital, where I was
[14:42] diagnosed with Crohn's with Crohn's
[14:44] disease and some other weird GI related
[14:48] stuff was going on. I had my appendix
[14:50] removed. So, I was basically faced with
[14:52] a situation where I could potentially
[14:55] have a health condition, chronic
[14:57] condition that would have greatly
[14:59] changed my entire life,
[15:01] as well as potentially limited or or
[15:04] short my military military career. So, I
[15:07] met a holistic doctor in Germany and so,
[15:10] she recommended
[15:12] At that time, I really didn't have any
[15:13] routine.
[15:14] I've had a routine for like probably the
[15:16] last 13 years and we can talk about
[15:19] that.
[15:20] But,
[15:21] she had me first thing
[15:24] again stretch
[15:25] do a little bit of physical activity and
[15:27] the
[15:28] >> This was as a treatment for Crohn's?
[15:30] >> As a treatment because she said we going
[15:32] to prevent you from going on chronic
[15:35] prednisone or whatever the treatment
[15:37] does your was
[15:39] and she said I'm going to have you drink
[15:41] some warm water
[15:43] for the first
[15:45] 40 days. That's the first thing you're
[15:47] going to put in your body just warm six
[15:50] six ounces of water and you're going to
[15:52] wait for 10 I mean for 30 minutes before
[15:55] you put anything else in your body and
[15:57] then I want you to basically have
[15:59] oatmeal of some type of porridge
[16:02] as your first meal and then the next
[16:04] time you're going to eat
[16:06] mainly a plant-based diet
[16:10] around noon. So that became my routine.
[16:12] So I eliminated 50 cups of coffee by by
[16:16] noon
[16:17] and and you know and and all the other
[16:19] things, right? And so that basically and
[16:22] then after the first 30 days she
[16:25] actually had me put turmeric a small to
[16:28] some amount of turmeric in the water and
[16:31] a small amount of honey.
[16:33] And so that I continued to practice
[16:37] um for
[16:39] about a year and then I went back to see
[16:41] my gastroenterologist
[16:44] and I was still stationed in Germany and
[16:46] he
[16:47] walked into the office. I could speak
[16:49] enough German or at least understand
[16:50] enough German that he told his nurse and
[16:52] his assistant that no get me Mr.
[16:56] Carter's file because this is not his
[16:58] file. He has Crohn's. And so he couldn't
[17:01] believe actually and he looked at me and
[17:04] he said what did you do to yourself?
[17:06] >> [laughter]
[17:07] >> And when I when I heard him say that and
[17:09] I was actually having a follow-on
[17:11] colonoscopy I said holy crap. Do I have
[17:14] cancer now?
[17:16] >> [laughter]
[17:16] >> And and lo and behold I had a completely
[17:19] clean colon. And so he was shocked.
[17:22] And so that became really a premise for
[17:26] a lot of things that I've been involved
[17:28] in, specifically research and really
[17:30] getting the message out about healing
[17:34] one's body. And over time I've
[17:37] incorporated, I would say a more more
[17:39] holistic
[17:41] morning routine to include some of the
[17:43] things I described, but again, that
[17:45] wake-up call was the wake-up call for me
[17:49] to change, as my wife described when we
[17:52] when we met, I was a trash can.
[17:55] And so I ate everything all times of the
[17:57] day. I I would eat ice cream followed
[18:00] by, you know, two cans of Coke. You
[18:02] know, basically I consumed whatever I
[18:04] wanted to consume. And that that put me
[18:06] on a path, in addition to Crohn's, I was
[18:09] beginning to develop high blood pressure
[18:11] and as well as um
[18:13] I was probably getting close to being on
[18:15] some type of lipid-lowering medication.
[18:18] >> Gotcha. Well, that's a cool story.
[18:20] Yeah, so you don't really know, I guess,
[18:22] if it was the warm water, or the
[18:24] turmeric, or it was taking out
[18:26] everything else, but the combination
[18:28] seemed to work wonders for you.
[18:30] >> E- E- E- Exactly. And that's why I said,
[18:32] you know, sometimes with science we want
[18:34] to just nail it down to this one thing.
[18:37] I'll tell you, when you look at the
[18:38] immune system and what we refer to as a
[18:41] cytokine storm, it's really um multiple
[18:45] stressors. I
[18:47] I gave a Aspen Ideas talk about about
[18:49] eight years ago, and I talked about the
[18:51] body keeps a score, and the reality is
[18:54] that
[18:56] if you as long as you keep it below
[18:57] whatever your threshold is for something
[19:00] bad to happen, you're probably in pretty
[19:01] good shape. The issue is none of us
[19:04] basically have a crystal ball to look
[19:06] and see what else
[19:09] insult is needed for me to basically
[19:12] enter into a chronic disease state or
[19:15] acute condition that may result in heart
[19:17] attack or stroke. So,
[19:20] basically by making these small
[19:22] adaptations, small changes to your life
[19:25] can result in
[19:27] positive outcomes or at least
[19:30] delay negative outcomes. So, you may not
[19:32] prevent everything bad from happening.
[19:34] It just may be in your DNA or your
[19:36] cards, but I'm confident that you can
[19:39] delay these type of bad outcomes.
[19:43] >> Yeah, we have a lot more control than we
[19:46] think or that
[19:48] um
[19:49] the medical industry wants us to
[19:50] believe. I'd say as a
[19:52] >> Exactly.
[19:53] >> cynic.
[19:53] >> Um
[19:54] >> So, you're still active duty, you said.
[19:56] Is
[19:56] >> I am. Yes.
[19:57] >> So, how long have you been in the
[19:59] service then?
[20:00] >> Uh 26 years. I'm actually
[20:04] um in my final year. I'm going to retire
[20:06] in the next next next 8 to 9 months.
[20:10] >> Well, good for you. So, half your life
[20:11] you've been in the military.
[20:12] >> Half Half my life. Yeah, that that's a
[20:14] good way to look at it.
[20:16] >> [laughter]
[20:16] >> Yeah, it's been it's been a joy. And now
[20:20] I want to return basically some of that
[20:22] control back to my
[20:23] lovely girls, my
[20:25] my my daughter and wife to let them
[20:28] now not have to
[20:31] to give them more of a of a
[20:33] of a choice in the overall
[20:35] decision-making process. So, so that
[20:37] gives us options if we want to stay in
[20:39] Maryland or we want to go go somewhere
[20:42] else, but it's an exciting time for the
[20:44] family.
[20:45] >> Yeah, that's great. Yeah, you mentioned
[20:47] you live not far from me, but didn't
[20:49] know until we basically pushed play
[20:50] here. Um but you're not in Maryland now.
[20:52] You said you're in Texas now working on
[20:55] uh another program you're in that I
[20:57] wouldn't mind hearing more about.
[20:59] Uh project welcome home troops. Am I
[21:02] saying that right?
[21:02] >> Yes, that's correct. That's correct.
[21:05] >> You do a lot You got your hands in a lot
[21:06] of stuff. Talk about that a little bit.
[21:09] >> Yeah, so Project Welcome Home Troops was
[21:11] an an effort around about 20 years ago
[21:15] that was started by some meditation
[21:18] teachers that wanted to do something to
[21:21] give back to returning vets.
[21:23] And so they started the effort in
[21:25] Southern California
[21:26] at a vet center just going in and doing
[21:29] basic body scan and a breath-based
[21:32] relaxation technique working with vets
[21:35] specifically as primarily Vietnam vets.
[21:38] And they realized that there was a need
[21:40] across the country. So they started a
[21:43] project under the association and
[21:46] International Association for Human
[21:47] Values, this project called Project
[21:49] Welcome Home Troops, which in time
[21:51] became its own thing. So it's a free
[21:54] workshop for veterans and their
[21:56] families, active duty service members.
[21:59] It's a three to four-day workshop, two
[22:02] to three hours per day. What individuals
[22:05] not only learn about breath-based
[22:07] techniques, but they do things like
[22:10] like like sharing of their story. And
[22:13] and the overall process helps them
[22:15] decompress and connect with other other
[22:17] vets
[22:19] and and service members. And at the end,
[22:21] they basically leave with a a 20-minute
[22:24] um practice that involves body scan and
[22:27] various types of of breath techniques
[22:30] that help them focus on their breathing
[22:33] and not all of the noise in their minds.
[22:36] And so and then we conduct follow-up
[22:39] workshops
[22:40] um virtually and in person uh once a
[22:43] week depending on the population within
[22:44] the city. City like San Antonio,
[22:47] Washington D.C., you can find there's
[22:50] enough folks that have actually taken
[22:51] the workshop they can get together. But
[22:53] we do have vets obviously. Uh one of my
[22:55] good friends uh Tom lives in the
[22:57] mountains of Colorado, so obviously he
[22:59] dials in virtually. And he was one of
[23:01] the individuals that um
[23:04] that I talked about that we did the
[23:05] Aspen Ideas Festival talk around. So,
[23:09] yeah, that's basically the actual
[23:11] program. It's a a program to help,
[23:14] again, service members decompress. Not
[23:17] only individuals that's been deployed,
[23:19] I've been deployed, others have been
[23:20] deployed, but just sometime time in
[23:22] service can be
[23:24] stressful enough for individuals that
[23:27] it's not just a deployment, it's the
[23:28] overall lifestyle of being in the
[23:31] military, as I described before, on the
[23:33] family. Because we get orders, and then
[23:36] we we move. So, regardless of what's
[23:39] going on with kids or
[23:41] spouses, their friends, maybe the
[23:43] environment that they built that they
[23:45] find safe, we get to pack it up and go
[23:48] somewhere else and re-enjoy that
[23:50] experience. So, Project Welcome Home
[23:52] Troops is just one of the ways to help
[23:54] provide a service and opportunity for
[23:56] folks to mitigate and reduce stress.
[24:00] >> That sounds great, man.
[24:01] >> Yeah, I mean, I thought about that many
[24:02] times over the years, like how
[24:04] well, two components there. I mean, one,
[24:06] the act of coming home and reintegrating
[24:09] into
[24:11] I don't know, whatever you would call
[24:12] like normal
[24:14] life, society, whatever, after
[24:16] especially after like a wartime
[24:18] deployment. It's It's [clears throat]
[24:20] hard to imagine
[24:22] what that
[24:25] like
[24:26] how that
[24:28] unfolds within the mind of a human. And
[24:32] all the things to juggle and try to make
[24:35] sense of, and
[24:37] the interplay between
[24:41] the cognitive side, where you're like
[24:44] mentally just trying to think about
[24:46] something a certain way,
[24:48] and the interpretation of the nervous
[24:52] system more deeply from whatever
[24:55] traumatic things that were experienced,
[24:57] whether it's their scene or
[24:59] you know, things that you're stuck
[25:00] living with, maybe that you've done that
[25:02] whether you regret or you feel bad about
[25:05] or they're just things that you were
[25:06] following orders and they're just really
[25:07] hard to hold
[25:09] over time and I mean it's great that
[25:12] there's more and more tools emerging to
[25:15] help folks come back. But also you make
[25:18] a good point about like the family and
[25:20] how
[25:22] like I live in an area where there's a
[25:25] a lot of transient families because of
[25:29] um
[25:31] military related stuff or like I live
[25:34] not far from
[25:36] National Security Agency, is that what's
[25:39] called? NSA? Where there's just
[25:41] a lot of people grew up here because
[25:43] their parents were moved here coming to
[25:46] and you hear a lot of stories over the
[25:48] years of
[25:49] kids that really
[25:52] didn't
[25:53] didn't have a place to really call home
[25:55] for very long.
[25:57] And and that's really a new phenomenon.
[26:00] I mean you don't have to go far back
[26:01] before
[26:03] we didn't have airplanes and train like
[26:05] where you didn't have transportation in
[26:07] a way that you could just motor around
[26:09] easily. Like people generally stayed
[26:12] pretty close to where they were born
[26:14] their whole life. There's something
[26:15] hardwired in their DNA that probably
[26:17] finds that comforting where your home is
[26:20] a really a long-term home.
[26:23] Your village or whatever.
[26:24] And you know, there's a lot of people
[26:26] out there that have been hopping around
[26:29] due to like military life and um
[26:32] you know, that's that's got a way on a
[26:34] kid, kids ability to find a way to fit
[26:37] in with friends at school or whatever
[26:38] when it's when there's like turnover.
[26:42] So um
[26:44] yeah, I mean there's a lot to consider
[26:46] in that lifestyle.
[26:47] >> Yeah, and and again it's it's part of
[26:50] the connection in the identity.
[26:54] And I think what you just described is
[26:55] one of the reasons why
[26:57] a greater percentage of a adult
[26:59] Americans report being lonely.
[27:03] Is that whole sense of community
[27:06] if someone asked me, "Where are you
[27:07] from?" I said, "From Lake Charles,
[27:08] Louisiana."
[27:10] If you ask my daughter, she she'll
[27:12] probably say, "I was born in San
[27:14] Antonio."
[27:17] And we've lived a lot of different
[27:18] places. So, for her, she doesn't have
[27:20] that connection. You ask my wife, she
[27:22] would say, "I'm from Pune, India." And
[27:24] so, having that connection, that sense
[27:26] of of family, basically
[27:30] and identity plays an important role in
[27:33] confidence and all the other aspects.
[27:35] And that's one of the things we want to
[27:37] make sure amplified so we have an
[27:38] opportunity to do that, provide that for
[27:40] my for my daughter.
[27:42] And that actually brought about
[27:46] the one of the main features in our new
[27:48] book.
[27:51] From the morning mind to the convenience
[27:53] trap, we built this framework basically
[27:56] based on
[27:57] workshops that we participated in. My
[28:00] wife's a physician, and just over time
[28:03] we begin to recognize that
[28:07] one of the things that we
[28:10] experience really as a family
[28:13] was convenience. And then, moving
[28:16] towards the concept of strategic
[28:17] inconvenience, we developed this
[28:19] framework called alive, which is uh to
[28:22] activate, level up, integrate, value,
[28:25] and embody.
[28:27] And so
[28:27] >> Say that again.
[28:29] >> Yep. So, activate awareness, level up,
[28:33] integrate, value what returns, and then
[28:36] embody. And the embody basically is
[28:39] where now that is
[28:41] the new you.
[28:43] You've connected that to your DNA. I
[28:46] mean, that is that is you. It's an
[28:48] epigenetic phenomenon where you truly
[28:52] have whatever
[28:54] you had lost, you now have gone through
[28:57] that process and you recognize I never
[29:00] want to lose this again.
[29:02] And so, that is
[29:05] happens
[29:07] at the level of the mind and and within
[29:09] the body. And because ultimately you
[29:12] recognize that whatever
[29:15] I thought was convenient really wasn't.
[29:18] And now that I've gone through that
[29:19] process and I've built that capacity
[29:22] back into my life
[29:24] I do not want to return. And for some
[29:27] people that could be
[29:29] my my father passed away last year, but
[29:32] he went through that process um with
[29:34] alcohol.
[29:36] And
[29:37] and he took this workshop Project
[29:39] Welcome Home Troops
[29:40] uh with us in his late 60s.
[29:44] And he used
[29:46] Although at the time we didn't call it a
[29:48] live framework, but that really what it
[29:50] was.
[29:52] In this book we defined it and we
[29:54] defined it prior to then, but it's
[29:56] really being alive, you know. So, not
[29:58] whatever that inconvenience is you
[30:02] you're able to basically whatever that
[30:04] what is convenience what appears to be
[30:06] convenient but is actually still in your
[30:09] life or taking away from who you are at
[30:13] core and reducing your capacity capacity
[30:16] to function, but it also capacity to
[30:18] live your full potential life, your full
[30:21] life potential.
[30:22] Um is is something that's critical.
[30:25] >> So, you said your father used it to quit
[30:27] drinking?
[30:28] >> Yes, exactly.
[30:29] >> But then he passed?
[30:31] >> Yeah, he Well, he passed from something
[30:32] else. He passed from cancer.
[30:34] >> Maybe the drink I was going to say maybe
[30:35] he shouldn't have quit drinking.
[30:37] >> Yeah,
[30:38] maybe. Maybe. But yeah, you know, he he
[30:40] died from from from a late diagnosis of
[30:43] prostate cancer. So
[30:44] >> Sorry to hear that.
[30:45] >> Yeah, he had he had a strong family We
[30:47] have a strong family history of prostate
[30:48] cancer.
[30:49] And uh yep, so
[30:52] But yeah, the the thing is
[30:53] >> live long enough, everybody gets that.
[30:55] >> Yeah, 100% 100%. Yeah, he probably had
[30:58] an earlier diagnosis, but yeah, you're
[31:00] you're you're right. Most most men will
[31:02] die with an enlarged prostate or with
[31:05] prostate cancer, but generally not of
[31:07] prostate cancer. But interesting enough,
[31:10] uh more men are dying from prostate
[31:12] cancer. It's no longer a phenomenon of
[31:14] you die with prostate cancer. It's it's
[31:16] a primary uh killer uh growing growing
[31:20] and and it's being diagnosed a lot
[31:22] younger in men as well.
[31:25] >> I wonder what that is. I wonder what the
[31:27] driver behind prostate cancer is.
[31:30] Um you mentioned a word strategic
[31:33] inconvenience
[31:35] a little bit ago.
[31:37] Yes. So, are you basically talking about
[31:39] like just being intentional about
[31:42] doing some the hard way to get like
[31:45] reaping the benefits regardless whether
[31:46] there's a
[31:48] easier option?
[31:50] I'm cuz I'm always torn with those
[31:51] things cuz there was a time where I
[31:54] remember especially with my kids
[31:56] when they would like as a kid like use a
[32:00] calculator and I'd be like, "No, you
[32:02] need to know how to do the math." And
[32:04] but it's like, "I don't use an abacus."
[32:06] Like, are we really
[32:08] better off
[32:10] because you Is it really necessary to
[32:12] know how to do it? Like we all do so
[32:14] many things with a computer. I have no
[32:16] idea how computers work. I don't know
[32:17] how TVs work. Like, I'm an idiot when it
[32:20] comes to electronics. Like, I'm amazed
[32:22] at these things exist.
[32:23] But I don't we're not we don't force
[32:26] people or encourage people to understand
[32:28] all the inner workings of a
[32:31] computer. Like, how do we know where to
[32:32] draw the line of just like accept that
[32:36] we are living in an amazing time where
[32:39] we have this ability to use these
[32:41] technologies
[32:42] or when is it too far where you're like
[32:45] you're really missing out by not
[32:48] um doing it the old-fashioned way if you
[32:51] will.
[32:52] >> Yes, and and and I'll I'll give you a
[32:54] good example, a real example
[32:57] where again you have to decide.
[33:01] You raised a good point. We don't we use
[33:03] a lot of things that we don't know how
[33:05] they work.
[33:07] But there are things that I would say
[33:09] professionally and and again it's going
[33:11] to dictate in many ways about what you
[33:15] what value you bring to society and what
[33:18] if you choose profession you choose a
[33:20] given profession or the things that
[33:23] ultimately you can contribute. So the
[33:25] example I I'll give you is that if
[33:30] if we if everything is convenient and
[33:33] you don't really have an understanding
[33:36] of how anything works then there's some
[33:39] loss in capacity to critical critically
[33:41] think. If if so you use the calculator,
[33:44] boom that's good. And then everything is
[33:47] basically you have a question you just
[33:49] type it in the chat GPT, spits it out,
[33:52] and just just everything you need some
[33:54] food you just order it Uber Eats.
[33:57] Uh you need to go somewhere you just
[33:59] order Uber or Waymo. And so just
[34:01] everything is just instant
[34:03] gratification.
[34:05] Everything in your personal and
[34:06] professional life you get to work your
[34:08] boss says, "Hey, can you you know can
[34:10] you provide me a paper or something a
[34:14] synopsis on X?" You just go in and chat
[34:17] GPT it. And and so at some point as soon
[34:21] as you have to critically think about
[34:23] anything
[34:24] your ability and your capacity to
[34:26] critically think is gone. And and that's
[34:29] what I'm I'm referring to and and I'll
[34:31] give you one a quick example of that.
[34:33] There was a group of oncologists,
[34:35] radiology oncologists in Poland and they
[34:39] integrated and radiology is full of AI
[34:41] knowledge um to use that
[34:43] >> Yeah, I hear that that's like a really
[34:45] beneficial use in the medical field.
[34:48] Being able to diagnose things, yeah.
[34:50] >> And so uh but again, the radiologists
[34:54] and this they found the radiologists
[34:57] that had a lot of historic knowledge. So
[34:59] they knew what right looks like. They
[35:02] used the AI. They could basically
[35:05] evaluate
[35:06] basically the AI would provide the
[35:08] initial and the radiologist could
[35:10] basically comb through.
[35:13] The radiologists with years of
[35:14] experience the combination of human
[35:17] intelligence and artificial intelligence
[35:19] was a combat multiplier.
[35:21] But the younger radiologists without
[35:24] that historical database
[35:27] they were misdiagnosing. And when the
[35:29] machine made an error, they couldn't
[35:32] identify it because they didn't have the
[35:34] database. So that's the risk.
[35:36] Specifically when you're in a critical
[35:37] profession and you haven't had to
[35:39] critically think are you
[35:42] if you're just relying on the machine
[35:43] outcome, they tended to agree even when
[35:47] the machine was wrong, they defaulted.
[35:50] They said, "I think I'm right, but I'll
[35:52] default to the machine." That's scary.
[35:54] >> Yeah, yeah. [laughter]
[35:56] >> And and at some point, yeah, go ahead.
[35:59] >> There's so many like
[36:01] That makes a lot of sense. Like in the
[36:03] like let's use the example of the
[36:05] radiology.
[36:07] Um
[36:08] but ultimately, I think
[36:11] if you're going to I don't know how long
[36:14] this will take, but if you want to be I
[36:16] think to get insurance, they're going to
[36:18] want the AI stamp on it first. Like
[36:20] eventually, it'll be like
[36:22] we trust you, but we trust the AI more.
[36:25] We're still going to require you to put
[36:27] the rubber stamp it.
[36:29] But
[36:30] we're not going to ensure you if you
[36:33] don't run it through our AI system also.
[36:36] Like I think that is kind of coming.
[36:38] Eventually it's going to be so good
[36:41] because
[36:42] because eventually
[36:45] you know
[36:46] the AI systems in the
[36:49] the AI radiologists per se will be a
[36:52] collection of all the best radiologists
[36:54] that ever existed and will be informed
[36:56] by
[36:58] the best of the best of whatever
[36:59] radiology has to offer. And it's going
[37:02] to be hard as it gets better for one
[37:05] person
[37:06] to outsmart that. Right now we're
[37:07] probably in a stage where
[37:09] you're right. Like if you don't have
[37:12] that historical context you might miss
[37:16] something or not pick up on something.
[37:19] But in time I think that changes.
[37:22] >> No, I I agree with you. Yeah.
[37:24] >> Cuz I'm sure it's way better now than it
[37:25] was a couple years ago. And it's hard we
[37:27] can't even imagine what things are going
[37:29] to be able to do
[37:30] 5 years from now. Like I think the same
[37:32] thing like I think um
[37:34] if an architect, you know
[37:37] will want to build a house, they could
[37:39] they could go to a
[37:40] a machine and say
[37:42] "Hey, these are my five favorite
[37:44] architects. I want that to inform this
[37:48] next design that I need all these
[37:50] criteria hit.
[37:51] Give me 100 designs." And then minutes
[37:54] later be like, "All right, these are my
[37:55] five fav five favorite. Let's refine
[37:58] these." And then you pick one and then
[38:00] you you just bypass hundreds of hours of
[38:04] work.
[38:05] And then as an architect you just look
[38:07] over and check it and say, "Okay, I'll
[38:09] put my stamp on it." I think eventually
[38:12] to get
[38:14] like even those companies I think for
[38:15] them to be insured, they're going to
[38:17] trust the AI
[38:19] because it's going to be the best
[38:20] architect in the world.
[38:23] Um it's a
[38:24] it's going to be weird and I would think
[38:26] in the field of medicine, which granted
[38:28] I admit I know very little bit about, I
[38:29] think there's going to be a lot of that
[38:31] kind of stuff as it gets better and
[38:33] better. And
[38:36] again, like where like where is an
[38:38] example of where you think the average
[38:41] person could really
[38:44] benefit where there's like a net gain
[38:47] from
[38:50] being like as you mentioned like
[38:51] strategically
[38:53] inconvenient.
[38:54] Um
[38:55] you know, how like where should we go
[38:56] out of our way to resist
[38:59] what's coming? I mean, it's it's here,
[39:02] it's coming, it's coming faster and I
[39:04] remember time where I was fighting it
[39:06] and now I'm like, what am I doing
[39:08] fighting it? Like is this something that
[39:10] we should all learn to embrace
[39:12] and the sooner the better, otherwise
[39:13] we're going to have a internal conflict
[39:16] in our mind unnecessary. Like it doesn't
[39:18] mean
[39:19] that you're not grounded and you could
[39:23] value connecting with the nature and the
[39:26] romantic side of being a human and being
[39:28] in all of the beauty all around us.
[39:31] But
[39:32] if you we use all these fancy
[39:35] conveniences, we could have more time
[39:38] walking barefoot in the sun with our
[39:40] loved ones and making time to like and
[39:43] having time to cook dinner together.
[39:45] >> Yes.
[39:46] No, and and I think that's one of the
[39:48] big debates right now. If you look at
[39:50] really across the spectrum, a lot of the
[39:52] talking heads in the AI space, there's
[39:54] everything from
[39:57] there'll be no use for humans in the
[40:00] future to what were humans doing is
[40:03] super intelligence environment. And And
[40:06] I think it's somewhere in somewhere in
[40:07] the middle. And And what I what I tell
[40:10] people is that
[40:12] um what has been
[40:15] if you look historically, the humans
[40:17] that have basically played a critical
[40:20] role in building the next generation,
[40:23] there was some type of struggle first
[40:25] and then they applied the tool. So, so
[40:28] personally,
[40:29] I'm going to continue to struggle first
[40:32] to some extent and then apply the tool.
[40:35] Back to kind of radiology example,
[40:38] that's how I'm training my daughter. So,
[40:39] I advise people that the reality is is
[40:43] that as long as you have some degree of
[40:45] struggle, then you will be in a good
[40:49] position. And that's a strategic
[40:51] strategic inconvenience. You don't have
[40:53] to make everything so inconvenient. I
[40:54] just instead of like
[40:56] >> We need some friction though to learn or
[40:58] to adapt.
[41:00] >> Exactly. And that's the key. You got to
[41:02] have some friction. And you don't have
[41:04] to make it like impossible. Like I know
[41:07] my talking to my grandfather,
[41:09] he he thought we were generally weak cuz
[41:12] there was a lot of things that we
[41:13] couldn't do.
[41:15] We we we we probably are to some extent,
[41:19] but the closer we get to frictionless
[41:22] society, then we have to basically
[41:24] question why why does the Earth need
[41:27] need humans? And ultimately, that there
[41:30] is some
[41:31] there is some some thoughts out there
[41:33] that the eventually that the super
[41:35] intelligence AI will just get rid of us.
[41:38] And I think I think there's a probably
[41:39] it won't get rid of all of us, but I
[41:41] think the reality is the folks that
[41:43] don't know how to not exist or coexist
[41:47] or haven't had any struggle and it's
[41:50] truly been frictionless their entire
[41:52] life, they're going to struggle just
[41:54] mentally. And I'll share one with you.
[41:57] Um since you talk about uh friction. So,
[42:00] when you look at historically, and this
[42:02] is probably not going to change in AI,
[42:04] but humans that had too much struggle,
[42:07] they generally are institutionalized.
[42:10] They they They significant mental health
[42:11] issues. On the other end, where there's
[42:14] no friction,
[42:16] there's a probably they're in another
[42:17] institution.
[42:19] But so it's it's some sweet spot in the
[42:21] middle where you got to have some degree
[42:23] of friction to build capacity. And this
[42:26] is really about how do you maintain
[42:28] enough capacity to be relevant and to
[42:31] have that connection within your mind
[42:34] and body.
[42:36] >> Yeah, uh
[42:38] that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I
[42:39] think your grandfather is right. We are
[42:40] weaker. Um and I mean, as we develop
[42:43] tools, we don't need to be the tool as
[42:46] much. So,
[42:48] we naturally I mean, that's why we need
[42:49] to go to the gym
[42:51] to create friction. And who knows what
[42:54] that's going to look like 100 years from
[42:56] now. Like we will probably be
[42:59] uh we will probably have adapted and we
[43:02] will look different. We will, you know,
[43:05] have
[43:06] you know, we'll have probably
[43:08] bigger heads and smaller muscles or
[43:12] whatever. And you know, some people talk
[43:13] about the stereotypical like alien where
[43:17] we have like
[43:18] >> [laughter]
[43:19] >> big heads and our big eyes and small
[43:21] mouths and because we don't need to
[43:23] communicate and that that's some form of
[43:24] us in the future and
[43:26] you know,
[43:27] uh
[43:28] it makes sense. I mean, I don't know
[43:30] what's true, but it's a compelling
[43:33] theory
[43:34] because if you go back in time,
[43:36] you know, people were stronger, tougher,
[43:39] more resilient physically and probably
[43:42] mentally.
[43:43] Um so it's it's an interesting paradigm.
[43:47] Um
[43:48] So, let's
[43:50] >> [snorts]
[43:50] >> go over you mentioned this framework um
[43:53] alive and you kind of glossed over it
[43:55] fairly quickly.
[43:56] Can we touch on each of those for a
[43:58] moment?
[43:59] >> Yes.
[44:01] Yes, we can. So,
[44:02] >> one was activate, you said?
[44:04] >> Yes, so activate awareness and
[44:07] that is
[44:08] um you can't reclaim what you can't see.
[44:11] So, you have to basically So, again, I
[44:14] talked about my dad's situation
[44:16] or you recognize that there's something
[44:21] that you need to be able to do
[44:23] regardless of the convenience. So, the
[44:27] example I always give
[44:29] and this is one of my wife can
[44:30] definitely relate to
[44:32] and you've probably all experienced,
[44:34] especially in cities where you have like
[44:36] large buildings. I experienced this in
[44:38] Austin, Texas while we were living there
[44:40] and that is your GPS. So, we used to
[44:42] have a standalone GPS, now everybody
[44:44] uses their phone.
[44:46] Um
[44:47] uh when you get around tall buildings,
[44:50] you can get this amplification of the
[44:51] signal and and your GPS signal can just
[44:53] start bouncing all around and if you
[44:56] have no
[44:57] idea about location
[45:01] and now you're dependent on getting
[45:02] around exclusively with the GPS
[45:06] then you will struggle and I've I've
[45:08] I've been there, I've struggled. So, so
[45:10] that's again um
[45:13] that could be recognized and okay um
[45:17] bringing awareness that I'm not going to
[45:18] use the GPS all the time. I'm going to
[45:22] have some degree of of spatial awareness
[45:25] and which is important not just for the
[45:27] GPS
[45:29] uh driving around, but spatial awareness
[45:31] is a critical component within the
[45:32] brain. So, that's the actual A and then
[45:36] level up basically is where you identify
[45:39] it doesn't have to be everything in your
[45:41] life, but one capability
[45:44] and then you start embarrassingly small.
[45:46] So, you say, "Hey, I'm only going to use
[45:48] the GPS.
[45:49] I'll continue using the GPS, but I won't
[45:52] use the GPS to go to the corner store. I
[45:54] won't use the GPS to drive somewhere I
[45:56] know how to already get there.
[45:59] But I use it just because I think
[46:02] there's going to be a magic traffic jam
[46:03] that never it's never there, but I'm
[46:06] going to always use it cuz that's what I
[46:07] actually do.
[46:08] And then you integrate that. So, you
[46:12] begin to
[46:15] basically build more of that capability
[46:17] into your life. You get to the point
[46:19] where you say, "Okay, I'm only going to
[46:21] use the GPS when I'm going somewhere
[46:22] unfamiliar or maybe when I'm getting on
[46:24] to I-70
[46:26] or a 270 where I know there's always a
[46:28] lot of traffic." And then you begin to
[46:31] value you
[46:33] you you begin to have a a broad
[46:35] experience. You begin to look around.
[46:37] You have a awareness in traffic. You're
[46:40] in everything. And so, then you invite
[46:42] invite it at and that is basically
[46:45] becomes
[46:46] the norm for you. You actually
[46:49] feel good about it. You say, "Wow, I
[46:51] didn't realize how much I lost in the
[46:54] overall driving experience by using GPS
[46:58] exclusively." I use that as an example,
[47:00] but you can use that for anything.
[47:03] >> don't care about that.
[47:04] >> [laughter]
[47:04] >> Yes. No no
[47:05] I agree.
[47:06] >> my kids started driving and you know, we
[47:08] live in a fairly close area. So, these
[47:10] numbers will resonate with you, but I
[47:12] was like trying to get them to
[47:13] understand the broader map. You know,
[47:16] you have these roads that go north.
[47:18] These are the high north-south ones and
[47:20] then there's this grid and then you have
[47:22] these east-west ones and like it's fine
[47:24] to use the map, but you want to get a
[47:27] sense of the territory.
[47:30] >> Yeah.
[47:30] >> And
[47:31] yeah, that was totally lost like and I
[47:33] don't
[47:34] >> [clears throat]
[47:34] >> I I don't get upset I don't blame them.
[47:37] I mean, they have a supercomputer in
[47:38] their phone. And now they have cars that
[47:42] just take them. I mean,
[47:44] we have a couple cars in the family
[47:46] where you get in and by the time they're
[47:49] off the driveway, they've entered in the
[47:51] destination, the car is taking them.
[47:55] >> Yes. No
[47:56] And again
[47:57] >> Not only are they not mapping out where
[47:59] they're going, they're not even doing
[48:00] the driving. Like a kid born today will
[48:02] never drive a car. They will probably
[48:05] think it's crazy that we drove our own
[48:07] cars
[48:08] by the time they're old enough.
[48:11] >> Yes, now now and and again,
[48:13] uh again, that kind of goes back to your
[48:15] point, what is what do we look like as
[48:17] actual humans?
[48:18] And and and I would argue that there'll
[48:22] be periods when we will have limited
[48:25] limited access to that technology.
[48:28] It's and and again, that's part of the
[48:31] the idea of instant gratification that
[48:34] we're going to always have something.
[48:36] And and the reality is that history
[48:39] tells us that that is not going to be
[48:41] the case. Okay, we have a growing number
[48:44] of cyber attacks. There's growing just
[48:48] conflict opportunity. So, if you look
[48:51] at, okay, just look at Ukraine and just
[48:53] think about if, you know, 50 years from
[48:56] now, something like that happens,
[48:59] how are the people going to survive?
[49:02] They're going to succumb to whoever
[49:05] is is basically invading them. Right?
[49:07] So, that's the fear, you know, 100% you
[49:10] can basically give complete
[49:13] >> Americans are are facing a threat like
[49:15] that?
[49:16] >> I I I don't know. I mean, honestly, I
[49:19] think
[49:19] >> 26 years in the military. I mean, what
[49:22] what do you guys discuss?
[49:25] >> No, so I can tell you, I think
[49:26] everybody, the reality is that, you
[49:28] know, threats, it doesn't require a huge
[49:32] nation. They're basically with AI and
[49:34] you you hear about the same things that
[49:36] I hear about in the news, fundamentally,
[49:39] you know, there are there's a growing
[49:41] number of threats. And so, yeah, of
[49:43] course. I mean, you know, you hear about
[49:46] power companies, you know, concerned
[49:48] about their systems being hacked. So, to
[49:50] reality and and that's the whole point
[49:52] is that um we personally experienced
[49:56] 2 weeks in Austin, Texas without having
[50:00] these
[50:01] all of these conveniences that we had
[50:03] grown accustomed to.
[50:05] Natural disasters happen, right? Um
[50:08] you know, so so if the if a tornado
[50:11] takes down the uh cell phone tower, and
[50:15] you don't know how to drive, or you
[50:17] lose your phone, right? My my I actually
[50:20] lost phone on top of the car, drove off,
[50:22] and I was like, "Oh, that's not good."
[50:25] If I didn't actually have a sense of
[50:26] direction, I would have In fact, I can't
[50:29] call anybody cuz I don't have my phone.
[50:31] So, I just think it's risky, and you
[50:33] know, for for anybody to have
[50:36] what they given the given their all the
[50:38] agency to that supercomputer that at any
[50:42] time can fail them.
[50:44] Yeah, and and if if everything you Well,
[50:47] you don't know it. It's all basically
[50:48] you just have access to information. I
[50:50] think it's important to actually have
[50:52] something within your noggin, right? You
[50:55] know, um it was given to us for some
[50:57] purpose.
[50:58] >> So, what's another like category of life
[51:01] that you feel this is super relevant
[51:03] today?
[51:05] >> Yeah, so I I think um specifically
[51:09] if you look at the generation, and we
[51:11] have an entire chapter in the book about
[51:12] this,
[51:13] and that is how
[51:15] um kids. We talked about kids.
[51:17] Basically, you'll see a group of kids
[51:20] out I see it with my daughter. She has
[51:22] four or five friends over.
[51:24] We don't allow her to actually have an
[51:26] actual cell phone. If she needs to use a
[51:29] phone, we actually have
[51:30] >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Time
[51:31] out. How old is your daughter now?
[51:33] >> She's 12. She'll be 13 in January.
[51:35] >> Okay. So, that's not So, that's right
[51:37] around the time kids probably start
[51:39] really asking.
[51:40] >> Yes. Yeah, all of her friends have
[51:43] multiple electronic devices.
[51:45] And you can see the difference. My my
[51:47] daughter is a top 10 uh martial artist.
[51:51] You know, she still read books. And and
[51:54] and I told her I said, "Hey, you're
[51:56] going to struggle first. These tools are
[51:58] going to be there." Yeah, of course, we
[52:00] let her use tools. I actually developed
[52:02] a training platform called Stack Master
[52:04] to train AI tools. So, I'm a firm
[52:07] believer in the tools, but you got to
[52:09] struggle first. So, another another
[52:11] example is the social lization. So, so
[52:15] many kids are already tie their sense of
[52:18] well-being and sense of purpose to how
[52:20] many likes they have on Tik Tok,
[52:22] Instagram friends.
[52:24] You take that concomitant with when they
[52:26] get with friends, they're playing Roblox
[52:29] together. And and I can just look at
[52:32] some of the kids
[52:33] um that I interact with, there's no
[52:36] expression. They don't know how to
[52:38] interact with
[52:40] other humans and adults.
[52:43] I always get compliments from other
[52:45] adults that my daughter would stop and
[52:48] talk to them. She can interact with
[52:50] them. It's something that sh- very early
[52:53] in her life, we had her as a 3-year-old
[52:56] as a tiger in Taekwondo. And the
[52:59] instructors basically
[53:01] had all the kids remember their parents'
[53:04] cell phone numbers, had them remember
[53:06] their address. These are things that as
[53:08] a kid, as a adult, as a human, you know,
[53:12] using your brain for something, you
[53:14] know, is is is value added. So, I think
[53:16] from a And then when you look at the
[53:18] growing number of people that say
[53:20] they're lonely, and I just
[53:23] I'm just concerned that all of the
[53:24] technology, all of the external, you
[53:28] know, basically we put so much of our
[53:30] well
[53:31] our sense of worth externally, and we're
[53:34] not building our capacity,
[53:36] uh whether that's using our hands or
[53:39] using our mind.
[53:40] At some point, most people in their
[53:43] lifetime will experience a snowmageddon
[53:46] like we experienced in Austin. How are
[53:48] they going to handle that?
[53:49] >> Right.
[53:49] >> And and that we you don't need a cyber
[53:52] attack or somebody to take down the grid
[53:54] in the country. You can just look at
[53:57] just weather, right? You know, and we
[53:59] look at, you know, it's getting hotter
[54:01] every year. We're getting, you know,
[54:02] extra data centers. The reality is that
[54:05] the country has a certain amount of
[54:06] capacity to generate electricity. And
[54:09] and and I I'll share another one with
[54:11] you. Um every year there's a growing
[54:13] number of elderly that's dying from
[54:16] heatstroke
[54:17] uh during heat waves. And that is due to
[54:22] a
[54:23] a prolonged period of loss of capacity.
[54:27] I want to basically be in a good enough
[54:30] shape
[54:31] if I'm in Texas and the power grid goes
[54:33] down
[54:35] that I can survive during a heatwave
[54:38] while the other 30,000 people that that
[54:40] gave their agency and capacity over the
[54:44] years away and they cannot that they can
[54:46] no longer tolerate warm conditions. I
[54:49] don't want want to be one of those. I'd
[54:50] rather attend their funerals.
[54:52] >> [laughter]
[54:52] >> As opposed to them attending mine. So, I
[54:55] think that's the overall aspect, right?
[54:57] And at the same time, we don't know how
[55:01] we do know that the brain atrophies over
[55:03] time if you don't use it. If there's a,
[55:06] you know, whatever you don't use, you
[55:07] lose. And so, will that contribute to
[55:11] increased rates of of Parkinson's,
[55:13] Alzheimer's? At least there's some
[55:15] evidence to that. So, again,
[55:18] I want to be healthy mentally and
[55:20] physically throughout my life. At some
[55:22] point, yeah, we may all look like
[55:23] Martians and all that will go away. But
[55:25] as long as there's a growing amount of
[55:28] Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and you
[55:30] know, many of these neurological
[55:31] disorders that appear to be tied to so
[55:34] some of this use of disuse and other
[55:36] aspects,
[55:37] >> Well, they're also just tied to I mean
[55:42] other things. I mean
[55:43] >> They are. They are.
[55:44] >> the inability to use their brain might
[55:48] be more of the symptom
[55:51] than the inab- than the non-use of the
[55:54] brain is a because. I mean
[55:56] >> Right. Right.
[55:57] >> I've done a good learning about
[55:59] Parkinson's. We had a family member that
[56:01] passed recently from it and I mean
[56:03] there's some strong links between like
[56:05] >> pesticides and different chem- like we
[56:07] live in a toxic environment that we have
[56:10] created
[56:12] and
[56:13] we are making ourselves sick. And when
[56:15] you are sick, you can't do cognitive
[56:18] stuff like when you were healthy and
[56:20] I don't know if it's the
[56:23] you know, oh, my brain doesn't work cuz
[56:25] I didn't solve puzzles. It might be I
[56:27] can't solve puzzles cuz my brain doesn't
[56:29] work cuz
[56:30] our food supply is poisoned or whatever.
[56:34] Um I mean and it's probably
[56:36] multifactorial and there's probably a
[56:37] lot of genetic individual variability of
[56:40] how everybody's affected by crap, but it
[56:43] seems like we're we're screwing
[56:44] something up and a lot of people are
[56:47] sick now.
[56:48] Whereas before a lot less people were
[56:50] sick and
[56:52] >> Exactly.
[56:52] >> it probably has something to do with
[56:54] something we're doing.
[56:56] Um
[56:56] >> Oh, 100%.
[56:58] >> And [laughter]
[56:59] uh
[57:00] Yeah, that's great to hear that you're
[57:02] you're fighting the good fight. I
[57:03] applaud you for holding out on the cell
[57:05] phone for your kids. I feel like um I
[57:08] think overall not a bad parent, but when
[57:10] I look back and think of what I would do
[57:12] differently
[57:13] I think one thing that stands out is I
[57:15] think I would just push that a little
[57:17] farther along. I was a fairly young
[57:19] parent and you don't know what you don't
[57:21] know. Like when at that time
[57:24] call this
[57:26] uh
[57:27] 10 12 years ago
[57:31] didn't really realize at that time how
[57:34] detrimental was to going to be to be to
[57:38] have access to a cell phone. Like didn't
[57:40] really know what
[57:42] kids were going to be exposed to. And
[57:45] if I could do it again, I probably would
[57:47] have tried to push that a few more
[57:49] years.
[57:50] And um
[57:52] but you know, you just you don't know.
[57:53] But I did I do think
[57:55] uh there's been a cost paid for that.
[57:58] This you know, the loneliness thing is
[58:00] such a big thing. It's like the social
[58:02] media clearly has an antisocial
[58:04] component to it. It's quite misleading
[58:07] and
[58:08] there is um
[58:10] a big
[58:11] you know, it's it's creating isolation.
[58:13] And it's sad to think that it's creating
[58:15] isolation in kids. And I mean we're I
[58:18] was just talking about this not long ago
[58:19] on the podcast cuz I heard and at first
[58:23] I was like mortified by this. And then I
[58:26] kind of saw it in a positive light.
[58:28] But um it was something about like a
[58:30] percentage of kids that are more likely
[58:34] to talk
[58:36] to an AI agent on their way home from
[58:40] school to tell about their day than
[58:42] their parents. And at first I was like
[58:44] it was maddening.
[58:46] But then
[58:47] I gave it more thought and I was like
[58:50] you know, how great is it that a kid
[58:53] that doesn't feel like they have a
[58:55] friend close enough or family
[58:57] someone to confide into about how their
[58:58] day went has an outlet to get whatever's
[59:01] inside them out. And how important might
[59:04] that be?
[59:05] And that's interesting. Oh, like I have
[59:07] an antidote recently. Um
[59:09] we had a uh
[59:11] an event at our house
[59:13] and I had a uh like a family uh member
[59:17] over and she's older.
[59:21] Uh I would say very late 70s and has
[59:24] dealt with like a lot of mental health
[59:27] psychological stuff over the years due
[59:29] to
[59:30] um
[59:31] I would say like traumatic experiences
[59:33] within her family system and
[59:35] >> Mhm.
[59:36] >> has
[59:38] decades of loneliness and depression.
[59:42] >> Mhm.
[59:42] >> And I asked her about like therapy and
[59:45] she said she hasn't seen a therapist in
[59:46] like many, many years and a few years
[59:49] ago she moved to the area and never
[59:50] connected with one in the area. And I
[59:52] asked her like, "Have you ever used AI?"
[59:54] She was worried about the cost of
[59:56] therapy, too. And I said, "You know,
[59:58] it's free. Like you can get have a
[59:59] therapist on your phone for free." And
[1:00:02] she looked at me like I was crazy and
[1:00:03] she thought like that wouldn't be She
[1:00:05] implied like that would be not useful.
[1:00:08] >> Right.
[1:00:09] >> so I I pulled up like uh Grok on the
[1:00:12] phone.
[1:00:12] >> Mhm.
[1:00:13] >> And I gave like a 30-second rundown. I
[1:00:16] was like, "I I'm here with my friend.
[1:00:17] She needs help." Gave like a 30-second
[1:00:19] rundown of some of her history.
[1:00:22] In 2 minutes
[1:00:24] this AI said something to this woman
[1:00:27] that made so much weight come off her
[1:00:30] shoulders.
[1:00:31] >> Wow, that's fast.
[1:00:33] >> Yes, yes.
[1:00:34] >> Like something that she needed to hear
[1:00:36] for like 20 years, this thing knew to
[1:00:38] say it right there and it was like
[1:00:41] >> [sighs]
[1:00:42] >> "I needed to hear someone say that." And
[1:00:44] I was like, "This is so interesting."
[1:00:46] Like as an observer I was like, "This is
[1:00:48] fascinating." This person just like
[1:00:50] lightened the load of decades of of pain
[1:00:53] because this thing knew
[1:00:55] it's better because it's better than the
[1:00:57] average therapist. And that'll probably
[1:00:59] offend some people.
[1:01:00] I'll probably offend some therapists,
[1:01:01] but it's not biased from their own
[1:01:05] It know and it understands
[1:01:07] what kind of thing someone needs to hear
[1:01:10] in a given moment. It could process that
[1:01:12] information quicker and it did. And I
[1:01:15] saw it and we all saw it and it was it
[1:01:17] was
[1:01:18] it was beautiful.
[1:01:20] >> Yes. No, and again, that is a great use
[1:01:23] case
[1:01:24] of AI.
[1:01:26] It It basically cuz again,
[1:01:28] you talked about the cost, the time, the
[1:01:31] timeliness. And yeah, I think it has a
[1:01:34] lot of a lot of value and opportunity.
[1:01:35] And And again, a lot of healthcare
[1:01:38] providers would completely disagree with
[1:01:40] that. [laughter] They would look at the
[1:01:42] They would look at the negative aspects
[1:01:43] of well, that the AI could tell the
[1:01:46] person that they're not worth living and
[1:01:49] >> Yeah, all these types of things.
[1:01:50] >> Yeah, I think there was a story about
[1:01:51] that. I think there was like a lawsuit
[1:01:52] over kid that took his life. It's sad
[1:01:54] story.
[1:01:56] And uh you know, and
[1:01:58] you know, there is I've noticed this. I
[1:01:59] know my wife has noticed this. When
[1:02:01] you're using some of these AIs, it's
[1:02:02] like they're trying to make you feel
[1:02:03] good about yourself. They're trying to
[1:02:05] make you feel right.
[1:02:06] So like you could have a bad idea and it
[1:02:09] could make you feel that it's the right
[1:02:12] idea. And it I think in that case where
[1:02:16] uh a child took his life, I think there
[1:02:18] was a little bit of that going on where
[1:02:20] it was like trying to help him
[1:02:21] accomplish something
[1:02:22] >> Exactly.
[1:02:23] >> Yeah, which is that's
[1:02:25] terrifying.
[1:02:26] >> [laughter]
[1:02:26] >> No, that that And And that's the And And
[1:02:29] that would be where the medical
[1:02:30] community would say, "Yeah, we we
[1:02:32] shouldn't we shouldn't go there
[1:02:35] um because ultimately the AI can't be
[1:02:38] responsible." And that's a lot of debate
[1:02:41] and a lot of things we talked about
[1:02:43] where the AI in the current context,
[1:02:47] if it's the self-driving car, whoever
[1:02:50] owns that car is going to be
[1:02:52] responsible. The Waymo, where there's
[1:02:54] There's anybody in the car, whoever is
[1:02:56] the owner of that car is directly
[1:02:57] responsible for the the actual tool,
[1:03:00] whether the tool
[1:03:02] does the right thing or not. And so in
[1:03:03] that example, you probably remember um
[1:03:06] years ago there was a case where there
[1:03:08] was gene therapy. There was one kid that
[1:03:10] died. And either either at Hopkins or a
[1:03:13] pit uh I mean a a a U-Penn. But
[1:03:15] nevertheless, that set back gene therapy
[1:03:18] for years and now it's it's recently
[1:03:20] come back online. So it only takes a few
[1:03:23] of those cases and then basically
[1:03:25] society
[1:03:27] traditionally would have pivoted, but I
[1:03:29] think now with the AI we're willing to
[1:03:32] accept some false positives for
[1:03:35] >> Right.
[1:03:35] >> um for for some good long-term outcomes.
[1:03:38] >> Well, I'm glad to be alive to be able to
[1:03:40] see this stuff unfold. How do you see
[1:03:43] this unfolding the interplay between the
[1:03:46] uh convenience and whether it's
[1:03:50] uh deeper understanding at the other
[1:03:52] side of it or security. We're always
[1:03:54] trading convenience for security.
[1:03:56] Um
[1:03:58] like how do you Where do you see the
[1:03:59] trend
[1:04:01] going? Do you think it's going to be
[1:04:02] like a pendulum that swings from
[1:04:04] extremes because of like crazy events
[1:04:06] that
[1:04:07] set it off or do you think we'll just
[1:04:09] slowly integrate in integrate this and
[1:04:11] like tweak it as we go so that
[1:04:13] everything just works more harmoniously
[1:04:15] over time?
[1:04:17] >> I think I think the latter.
[1:04:19] I I don't think we will will swing a
[1:04:22] pendulum back to where we completely
[1:04:25] separate cuz the reality is fully
[1:04:27] integrated. It's like electricity. You
[1:04:29] know, we we never we never And so I
[1:04:31] think AI is more akin to electricity
[1:04:35] akin to television. I think it will
[1:04:37] improve over time. I think we'll
[1:04:41] apply some guardrails
[1:04:44] but but I think we're on a Wherever this
[1:04:46] thing is taking us
[1:04:48] we're going there.
[1:04:50] >> It's a It's a one-way one-directional.
[1:04:53] >> Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think the best we
[1:04:55] can do is enjoy the train ride, but
[1:04:58] honestly, we are going wherever this
[1:05:00] train is taking us.
[1:05:02] We have to figure out basically how to
[1:05:04] make it the most pleasant experience
[1:05:07] where at the end we still have value and
[1:05:11] agency because I think to your example,
[1:05:13] we have more time to walk on the beach.
[1:05:16] Well, some people will be homeless. So,
[1:05:18] they'll be living on the beach. And so,
[1:05:20] I think that that is the key, which I
[1:05:22] think is the key for in my mind of the
[1:05:25] people in particular, the portions of
[1:05:28] this generation that has had some
[1:05:30] struggle, and it hasn't been all tools,
[1:05:34] and they've gave given all their agency,
[1:05:36] they haven't experienced any struggle,
[1:05:38] and they have they haven't had any
[1:05:41] inconvenience. Personally, I think
[1:05:44] they're going to be
[1:05:45] not as well off. I think for us, we're
[1:05:48] probably
[1:05:49] because we've had some struggle, we've
[1:05:51] had life experiences,
[1:05:53] we know how to do stuff without we can
[1:05:55] figure it out. We're fine. My fear is
[1:05:59] basically when that train arrives at
[1:06:01] that destination, the people that are
[1:06:04] going to be the most relevant are the
[1:06:06] ones that basically have
[1:06:09] they they will be cuz humans will always
[1:06:12] need to need to play some role, but
[1:06:14] those are the folks that that that small
[1:06:16] percentage. When you talk about AI or
[1:06:19] this automation taking replacing
[1:06:22] humans, it's going to replace the humans
[1:06:25] basically that are in that category fat
[1:06:28] first. The people that basically and
[1:06:31] obviously you'll have electricians and
[1:06:33] the people that can work with their
[1:06:34] hands. In fact, I was just talking with
[1:06:35] a kid that I trained taekwondo with. He
[1:06:38] lives in um
[1:06:39] in just north of Baltimore in White
[1:06:41] Marsh.
[1:06:42] We were talking, and he was considering
[1:06:45] going to college or basically becoming
[1:06:47] an electrician. He decided he asked me
[1:06:49] what what did I think? I said, "The
[1:06:51] reality is that for the longevity if you
[1:06:53] want to do electrical engineering or do
[1:06:55] become an electrician, honestly, I would
[1:06:57] pursue the electrician route, and if you
[1:06:59] want a degree later, go back and get
[1:07:01] one." But, I'm definitely a fan now of
[1:07:03] trade because the reality is that
[1:07:06] it's going to be a long time before the
[1:07:07] robot basically walks in and builds a
[1:07:10] house and put the wires together or you
[1:07:12] have electrical problem,
[1:07:14] you know, so I think those type of
[1:07:16] skills going to be critical. So I'm much
[1:07:18] more trade friendly despite having six
[1:07:20] academic degrees.
[1:07:22] I'm very trade friendly. You know, and
[1:07:24] that could be medicine, dentistry, but
[1:07:25] something that you use your hand
[1:07:27] basically and it requires you to think
[1:07:29] and solve problems. Those are going to
[1:07:31] be the people that basically have the
[1:07:33] longest value and historically those are
[1:07:36] the people I mean that's you know, going
[1:07:38] back to the Greeks, the people that
[1:07:40] could do stuff.
[1:07:42] Had the most value at the end of the
[1:07:44] day. If you can do stuff, so you so
[1:07:47] that's my my talking point. What can you
[1:07:50] do? Can you do stuff? And and if all the
[1:07:52] thing you can do
[1:07:54] The only thing you can do is search
[1:07:56] using chat GPT, everybody can do that.
[1:07:58] What else can you do? And so that's
[1:08:00] that's the value. Yeah.
[1:08:02] >> When does your new book come out?
[1:08:05] >> So my new book comes out on audio,
[1:08:07] book November 11th and then the um
[1:08:12] Simon & Schuster's will start
[1:08:14] distributing
[1:08:15] the hard cover December 1st.
[1:08:17] >> All right. Well, Dr. Robert Carter, I
[1:08:19] appreciate you reaching out. It's been
[1:08:21] great to connect with you and you don't
[1:08:23] live far, maybe we'll meet in person
[1:08:24] sometime coming up.
[1:08:26] >> Yes, no for sure.
[1:08:27] >> Yeah, I've enjoyed the conversation. For
[1:08:29] listeners, always grateful for your
[1:08:30] listening. If people want to learn more,
[1:08:31] where should they go to find more about
[1:08:35] your what you're into?
[1:08:37] >> Yeah, so we've integrated everything on
[1:08:40] to the convenience trap.com.
[1:08:42] You can learn about project welcome home
[1:08:44] troops there. You can also learn about
[1:08:46] the morning mind, our previous work as
[1:08:48] well and more about my wife and I. Also,
[1:08:51] you can actually go and do the uh we
[1:08:54] have three assessments. So if you're
[1:08:55] interested on how dependent you are on
[1:08:58] technology and how it may be impacting
[1:08:59] your resilience, we have a lot of free
[1:09:01] stuff on there as well. So, the
[1:09:03] convenience trap.com.
[1:09:05] >> Okay, great. And for the listeners, if
[1:09:07] you have an opinion, if you got
[1:09:08] something to say about this interplay
[1:09:10] between convenience of all these
[1:09:13] technologies and
[1:09:15] the cost, the unseen cost that we as
[1:09:18] people might be facing, I'd love to hear
[1:09:20] your opinion. Leave it in comments.
[1:09:22] Um I hope you enjoyed the conversation,
[1:09:23] everybody, and hope you have a great
[1:09:25] day.