Transcript
[0:03] [music]
[0:08] [music]
[0:14] >> Welcome to Being in the Way, the Alan
[0:16] Watts Podcast. I'm your host Mark Watts.
[0:20] And today we're going to be listening to
[0:21] a very special talk about falling in
[0:23] love. Title of this is Divine Madness,
[0:26] [music] and in it he contemplates the
[0:27] possibility that perhaps it is only when
[0:30] we fall in love that we see each other
[0:31] as we truly are, as a god or goddess
[0:34] incarnate.
[0:35] This is Alan Watts in Divine Madness.
[0:47] >> This morning I'm going to talk to you
[0:48] about a particularly virulent and
[0:51] dangerous form of divine madness,
[0:54] which is called falling in love.
[1:02] Which is from a practical point of view,
[1:04] one of the most insane things you can
[1:05] do.
[1:07] All that can happen to you.
[1:10] Because
[1:12] in the eyes of a given woman
[1:16] or a given man
[1:18] an opposite
[1:19] who though to the eyes of everybody else
[1:22] a perfectly plain and ordinary person
[1:25] can appear to be uh god or goddess
[1:27] incarnate.
[1:29] To be such a an enchantment
[1:32] that one can say in the words of an old
[1:34] song which probably dates me
[1:36] every little breeze seems to whisper
[1:38] Louise.
[1:45] And this is an extraordinary disruptive
[1:47] experience, a subversive experience in
[1:50] the conduct of human affairs.
[1:53] Because you never know when it will
[1:55] strike
[1:56] or for what reason.
[1:58] Uh
[1:59] it's something like a contracting a very
[2:02] chronic disease once you get into it.
[2:06] And we try to resolve it sometimes by
[2:09] making it the basis for a marriage.
[2:11] Which is an extraordinarily dangerous
[2:13] [laughter] thing to do.
[2:20] And this is because in Western
[2:22] civilization,
[2:23] we have a tradition of the family,
[2:27] which is very curious,
[2:28] and which would seem to be the most
[2:30] ridiculous composition of disparate
[2:33] ideas imaginable.
[2:37] When we go back to the origins of
[2:40] Western civilization in the Hebrew and
[2:43] Christian traditions,
[2:46] we find
[2:48] that the idea of marriage
[2:51] and the experience of falling in love
[2:54] are really rather separate things.
[2:57] Because in those earlier times,
[3:01] in agrarian cultures,
[3:04] nobody ever chose
[3:07] their marriage partner.
[3:09] There are certain exceptions to this,
[3:11] that in ancient Greece,
[3:14] you would occasionally find a woman who
[3:15] is called a parthenos,
[3:18] which has been mistranslated virgin.
[3:22] The correct meaning of parthenos is a
[3:25] woman who chooses her own husband.
[3:29] And there were very few of them. And in
[3:30] that passage in the book of the prophet
[3:32] Isaiah, where it says, "Behold, a virgin
[3:34] shall conceive and bear a son, and his
[3:36] name shall be called Immanuel."
[3:38] That is in Greek, parthenos, a parthenos
[3:41] [snorts] shall conceive.
[3:43] And it therefore has nothing strictly to
[3:45] do with a virgin, although a woman who
[3:46] chooses her own husband might
[3:48] conceivably be a virgin.
[3:52] But
[3:53] by and large,
[3:56] >> [clears throat]
[3:57] >> a marriage
[3:58] was an alliance of families.
[4:03] And it was contracted not simply for the
[4:06] purpose of raising children, yes,
[4:09] but also to create a social
[4:12] unit smaller than a village.
[4:17] A village therefore being a cluster of
[4:19] families.
[4:21] And these families were rather large.
[4:25] >> [clears throat]
[4:25] >> So, families allied.
[4:27] The oldsters, the grandpa and grandma
[4:29] who had an enormous voice in who their
[4:32] children were going to marry, used to as
[4:34] you know, I suppose this is no news to
[4:36] any of you, used to dicker and
[4:40] use go-betweens.
[4:42] And they considered not only whether
[4:45] this girl was suitable for their son and
[4:47] vice versa, but also what kind of a
[4:49] dowry she would bring, whether it would
[4:51] be advantageous to the two families to
[4:53] form such an alliance. And of course,
[4:55] these things almost up to quite recent
[4:57] times were always important in the
[5:00] marital affairs of royal families.
[5:04] But as is notorious,
[5:06] all royal families and the kings and
[5:08] queens kept concubines and
[5:11] had outside arrangements when and if
[5:14] they should happen to fall in love and
[5:16] even if they didn't, they had mistresses
[5:19] simply to prevent monogamy from becoming
[5:22] monotony.
[5:25] So,
[5:26] that is the basis, you see, and that is
[5:29] why to this day
[5:30] marriage is a civil and or religious
[5:34] ceremony,
[5:36] the basis of which is a contract.
[5:41] A legal contract
[5:43] which one signs on the dotted line.
[5:47] And therefore there are all kinds of
[5:49] laws as laws relate to contracts that
[5:52] this contract is very difficult to get
[5:54] out of.
[5:56] The rationale for that being quite
[5:57] obvious
[5:59] that uh
[6:01] society believes that it requires a
[6:03] secure environment for children.
[6:06] but also just the general stability of
[6:08] things.
[6:10] Because when
[6:12] people break up a marriage, it's sort of
[6:14] unnerving
[6:16] for everyone.
[6:18] You see a couple and you think for a
[6:20] long time that they're the happiest and
[6:22] best adjusted couple you ever met.
[6:24] The next thing you know is that they've
[6:26] split up.
[6:28] And you begin to think, "Now, what goes
[6:29] on here? Are all my friends crazy?"
[6:33] Because you see people breaking up all
[6:35] around.
[6:36] Of course, you call it breaking up.
[6:39] That's a
[6:40] put-down phrase to break up.
[6:44] Especially, it sounds like smashing
[6:45] something, as if something precious had
[6:47] been smashed.
[6:49] Whereas, it may be something quite
[6:51] different altogether, depending on how
[6:53] you evaluate it.
[6:56] But now, into this kind of feudal
[6:59] conception of marriage,
[7:01] there came in, very largely I think, as
[7:04] a result of the
[7:08] poetic
[7:09] movement
[7:11] that was centered in southern France, in
[7:13] Provence,
[7:15] in the Middle Ages, what is called the
[7:18] cult of courtly love.
[7:22] This
[7:24] is something about which scholars
[7:27] dispute.
[7:29] According to one theory,
[7:33] the
[7:34] knightly or courtly lover, who was also
[7:37] a poet,
[7:39] would
[7:40] select a lady to be his heart's desire,
[7:46] preferably a married lady.
[7:49] And he would
[7:51] yearn for her
[7:54] and sing songs under her window
[7:57] and send messages to her and little
[7:59] tokens of his devotion.
[8:01] But according to this particular theory,
[8:03] he must never go to bed with her.
[8:06] Not only would that be adultery, but it
[8:07] would spoil the state of being in love.
[8:11] That it should always be an unfulfilled
[8:13] state and an unhappy state.
[8:16] This is the theory of Denis de Rougemont
[8:19] in his book Love in the Western World or
[8:21] Passion and Society. It has two titles.
[8:24] And the other theory is probably more
[8:26] realistic. That um
[8:30] This was first of all the the the
[8:33] the great ladies
[8:35] of
[8:36] the noble families
[8:38] were awfully bored.
[8:40] Because their husbands were always out
[8:43] hunting and making war and wenching and
[8:45] so on.
[8:46] And therefore they had to have lovers,
[8:48] too.
[8:50] And so they did indeed have adulterous
[8:52] affairs on the side.
[8:54] And a great deal of poetry arose out
[8:57] about this.
[8:58] Because you see it's
[9:00] the My friend Young Korbada always says
[9:04] that laws about sexual relationships
[9:07] should never be liberalized. There
[9:09] should always be strict disapproval of
[9:12] adultery and fornication. Because if
[9:14] there is not that strict disapproval and
[9:16] if it's not difficult to attain, it's
[9:18] less fun.
[9:21] And I have worked out Those of you who
[9:23] have read my book Beyond Theology, I've
[9:26] worked out a whole theory of the
[9:27] Christian repression of sex. That the
[9:30] secret intent of this was to make people
[9:33] more interested in sex.
[9:35] Because if there is complete liberality
[9:37] and pro- promiscuity in every direction,
[9:40] it all becomes so easy that it might
[9:42] indeed be in danger of becoming a bore.
[9:46] And then people would
[9:48] seek other dissipations
[9:50] of of perhaps a lesser
[9:53] healthy kind.
[9:56] So then
[9:58] as a result of the gradual fusion of
[10:00] these two approaches to the relationship
[10:03] of the sexes
[10:04] we have arrived at the idea of the
[10:07] romantic marriage.
[10:09] In which the two
[10:12] trends are
[10:13] misallied
[10:15] to say the very least.
[10:18] You are supposed therefore to fall in
[10:20] love with someone
[10:22] and of your own choice naturally. It has
[10:24] to be that way if we're going to fall in
[10:25] love, if that is a choice.
[10:29] And then in enter in to that
[10:31] relationship
[10:33] with a legal contract
[10:36] in which you get up before a magistrate
[10:38] or priest and do solemnly curse and
[10:40] swear
[10:41] that you will be faithful to each other
[10:43] until death do you part.
[10:46] Which leads often to murder.
[10:50] >> [laughter]
[10:52] >> And it seems to me perfectly obvious
[10:55] that two young people who are extremely
[10:57] anxious
[10:58] uh to get into each other's embraces
[11:01] and the only way of doing so under the
[11:03] circumstances is entering into this
[11:04] contract, will naturally be ready to
[11:07] promise anything.
[11:09] >> [laughter]
[11:11] >> To fulfill this desire.
[11:15] And uh while there are
[11:17] indeed
[11:19] many many married legally married
[11:21] couples
[11:22] who
[11:23] have a very very happy alliance that
[11:26] goes on all their lives.
[11:28] And we don't hear about them because
[11:31] uh good news is never news.
[11:34] It's only the unhappy couples who make
[11:36] the newspapers.
[11:39] And there are enormous numbers of them,
[11:41] but they are mainly I think people who
[11:43] were lucky.
[11:45] There is no way of making a marriage
[11:48] work
[11:49] so far as I know.
[11:51] Because every attempt to make a marriage
[11:53] work uh is is secretly within the breast
[11:56] of each partner builds up hostility.
[12:00] Uh you can
[12:03] I know all this. I'm speaking from a
[12:04] certain amount of bitter experience.
[12:07] Um you can
[12:09] work very hard to keep a marriage
[12:11] together.
[12:13] And as you do so,
[12:16] you may fail to recognize, you see, that
[12:19] you are being untrue to your own
[12:20] emotions.
[12:23] And you think, "Well, I must control my
[12:25] emotions for the sake of children, for
[12:27] the sake of society, for the sake of
[12:29] everything like that."
[12:31] And so, you work and work, and one of
[12:33] the ways of working is to try to
[12:35] convince yourself that you're in love.
[12:38] And you go through the pretenses of
[12:40] love.
[12:41] You hypnotize yourself with loving
[12:44] language towards your partner.
[12:46] You
[12:48] go out of your way. You make little
[12:49] lists to remember attentions you must
[12:52] pay. You keep a diary in which you
[12:53] remember your wedding anniversary
[12:55] because you're very liable to forget it.
[12:57] And all these things, and you really
[12:59] work it. Now, the more you work it, the
[13:01] more you're building up promises and
[13:03] expectations for something that you are
[13:05] probably not going to come through with
[13:07] at the level of deep feeling.
[13:10] And everyone is well aware of that.
[13:13] Is a Hintergedanke. You know, you know
[13:15] it in the back of your mind.
[13:17] And so, you build yourself increasingly
[13:20] into a wall-to-wall trap.
[13:25] And
[13:26] so, the mutual hostility grows worse and
[13:30] worse and worse, so that one
[13:31] psychologist was recently known to ask a
[13:34] patient, "With whom are you in love
[13:36] against?"
[13:38] >> [laughter]
[13:44] >> The most awkward cause form of falling
[13:46] in love
[13:47] is
[13:48] between
[13:50] people who are already married to
[13:51] someone else.
[13:55] And because you see this is a
[13:56] cataclysmic and disruptive experience in
[13:58] our present social order,
[14:00] and
[14:01] we know of I mean Victorian novels. A
[14:04] lot of people are still living out
[14:06] Victorian novels.
[14:08] But in Victorian novels, the great thing
[14:10] is
[14:11] where
[14:12] a couple madly in love with each other
[14:14] say to each other, "Well,
[14:17] it's best for us that we don't see each
[14:19] other anymore.
[14:20] This is becoming bigger than either of
[14:22] us,
[14:23] >> [laughter]
[14:26] >> and so this this
[14:30] fantastically mad experience is denied,
[14:34] swept under the rug,
[14:36] and strangled.
[14:38] >> [laughter]
[14:40] >> Uh what should one do?
[14:44] Well, as I've often said, I'm not a
[14:45] preacher,
[14:47] and therefore I
[14:48] don't know what you should do.
[14:52] Uh but I would like to make some
[14:54] reflections on this particular form of
[14:56] madness, and to raise again a very
[14:58] disturbing question.
[15:00] And this disturbing question is as
[15:02] follows.
[15:04] Is it only when you are in love with
[15:06] another person
[15:08] that you see them as they really are?
[15:12] And in the ordinary way, when you're not
[15:14] in love with people, you see only a
[15:16] fragmented version of that being.
[15:19] Because when you're in love with
[15:20] someone, you do indeed see them as a
[15:22] divine being.
[15:25] And suppose that's what they are, truly.
[15:29] And your eyes have by your beloved been
[15:32] opened, in which case your beloved is
[15:34] serving to you as a kind of guru,
[15:38] an initiator.
[15:40] And that is why there is a form of a
[15:43] sexual yoga,
[15:46] based on the idea that man and woman are
[15:48] to each other as mutual guru and
[15:51] student.
[15:53] And through a tremendous
[15:56] outpouring of psychic energy in total
[15:59] devotion and worship to this other
[16:01] person, who is respectively the goddess
[16:02] or the god,
[16:04] uh you realize by
[16:06] uh total fusion and contact with the
[16:09] other organism,
[16:11] uh you go down to the divine center in
[16:14] them, and it bounces back, and you
[16:16] discover your own.
[16:18] Or you could put it in this way, which
[16:20] is another aspect of it.
[16:22] That by falling in love
[16:25] and
[16:26] regarding falling in love not just as a
[16:29] sort of um
[16:30] sexual infatuation because it's always
[16:33] more than that, isn't it?
[16:36] Uh
[16:38] I mean, you you can
[16:39] have
[16:40] great sexual enjoyment with a
[16:43] pleasant friend,
[16:45] you know?
[16:47] But you may do so simply because he or
[16:49] she appeals to your aesthetic senses.
[16:54] But when you fall in love, it's much
[16:57] more serious involvement. You just
[16:59] cannot forget this person.
[17:01] You feel miserable when not in their
[17:03] presence. You're always yearning, "Let's
[17:06] see more of each other. Let's get
[17:07] together. Let's
[17:09] We're completely entangled."
[17:11] And then you see, you've actually a kind
[17:14] of a what I would call spiritual element
[17:15] has been introduced.
[17:18] And
[17:19] the Hindus were sensible enough to
[17:21] realize that this
[17:24] was
[17:25] a means of
[17:27] awakening, enlightenment.
[17:30] And therefore, it was
[17:33] surrounded
[17:35] with a sort of religious ritual,
[17:39] meditative art,
[17:44] with a form of sexual yoga
[17:48] that is designed
[17:51] to allow the feeling of mutual love
[17:55] to the extent of grand passion
[17:59] to have an extremely fitting fulfillment
[18:01] and expression.
[18:06] Falling in love
[18:08] is a thing that strikes
[18:11] like lightning
[18:14] and is therefore extremely analogous
[18:18] to the mystical vision.
[18:23] We don't know how really people attain
[18:26] the mystical vision.
[18:30] There is not as yet a very clear
[18:32] rationale as to how it happens.
[18:35] Because we do know that it is open to
[18:38] many people who never did anything to
[18:39] look for it.
[18:42] Many people, especially in adolescence,
[18:44] have had the mystical vision all of a
[18:46] sudden without the slightest warning and
[18:48] with no previous interest in that kind
[18:50] of thing.
[18:53] On the other hand, many people who have
[18:55] practiced yoga or Zen disciplines or
[18:58] what you will for years and years and
[19:00] years have never seen it.
[19:04] And uh
[19:06] in both classes, there are of course
[19:08] exceptions.
[19:10] There are those who have never had the
[19:11] spontaneous experience and there are
[19:13] those who through yoga or Zen have
[19:15] attained this insight.
[19:18] But as yet, we are not clear as to why
[19:20] it comes about.
[19:22] And if there is any method of attaining
[19:24] it, the best one is probably to give up
[19:26] the whole idea of getting it.
[19:31] But you see, it is completely
[19:33] unpredictable.
[19:36] And so it is in that way
[19:39] like falling in love.
[19:42] Capricious
[19:44] and therefore crazy.
[19:47] But if you should be so fortunate
[19:51] as to encounter either of these
[19:52] experiences,
[19:54] it seems to me to be
[19:57] a total denial of life to refuse it.
[20:03] And what we therefore have to
[20:07] admit in our society so that we can
[20:09] contain this kind of madness,
[20:13] we must be far more realistic about
[20:16] the marriage arrangement
[20:20] so that it can contain the possibility
[20:23] of falling in love.
[20:25] When you base marriage, you see, on
[20:27] falling in love,
[20:29] and you go into a pseudo love affair,
[20:32] which is simply hot pants,
[20:36] and set up a rigid family
[20:38] in which you expect of the other person
[20:41] that they will uh
[20:43] always be in love with you,
[20:46] and then
[20:48] in that context, you go and fall in
[20:50] love,
[20:53] then your falling in love is of
[20:54] necessity disruptive of the marriage and
[20:56] of the family.
[21:01] But you see, it could only disrupt it
[21:04] because the love relationship between
[21:06] the two partners was false.
[21:09] Was pretended.
[21:13] But if
[21:14] uh marriage were based more on the old
[21:17] idea of the
[21:19] the reasonable contract between two
[21:21] people to bring up children,
[21:23] who are maybe uh expected at the best to
[21:26] be good friends,
[21:30] and to
[21:32] allow each other
[21:35] to be persons, that is to say, in the
[21:37] ordinary sense of the word person, to
[21:39] have their own freedom,
[21:42] then if love strikes,
[21:44] uh it is tolerated within this
[21:46] arrangement.
[21:49] Provided you not going to be so
[21:50] unreasonable as the go on to say,
[21:53] "Well, I have since I've fallen in love
[21:55] with somebody else, I must marry them."
[21:57] Well, that's a perfectly ridiculous.
[22:02] And you see, in this way, we can think
[22:03] about and structure the necessary stable
[22:07] social institution of family of some
[22:09] kind
[22:11] without it being constantly threatened
[22:14] of uh foundering on the rocks of love.
[22:20] Now, you see, this this then means that
[22:23] when when people marry,
[22:25] if they take uh
[22:26] any vows at all to each other,
[22:29] instead of
[22:31] saying that they will always be true to
[22:34] each other in the sense of meaning I
[22:36] will always love you,
[22:39] it means I will be true to you in the
[22:41] sense of I will always be truthful to
[22:43] you.
[22:45] I will not pretend that my feelings
[22:47] towards you are other than what they
[22:48] are.
[22:50] Because I marry you because I think that
[22:54] you are a reasonable person to live
[22:55] with, and therefore I want you to be
[22:58] you. I don't want you to be someone
[22:59] else.
[23:00] I don't want you to be a rubber stamp of
[23:01] me. How boring that would be.
[23:06] So, it is a really an arrangement not of
[23:09] as the
[23:10] >> [clears throat]
[23:10] >> we always say jokingly, "Did you get the
[23:12] ball and chain on him?"
[23:15] But an arrangement in which people set
[23:17] each other free,
[23:19] and
[23:20] make an alliance to cooperate with each
[23:22] other in certain ways.
[23:26] Now, if it should so occur that they are
[23:28] of immense sexual attraction to each
[23:30] other, so much the better.
[23:34] But this should not be a primary factor
[23:36] in entering into marriage.
[23:39] Admittedly, you must be to a certain
[23:41] extent attracted to each other,
[23:42] otherwise there will be no progeny.
[23:46] But um
[23:50] But this is a this is seems to me to be
[23:52] a sensible and reasonable view.
[23:54] And just because it is sensible and
[23:56] reasonable, it can accommodate what is
[23:59] not sensible and reasonable, which is
[24:01] falling in love.
[24:04] We should regard then marriage as if
[24:07] especially if it should possibly be
[24:09] called holy matrimony,
[24:12] as
[24:13] a mutual setting free of two people
[24:17] to live together in freedom,
[24:19] and therefore in responsibility.
[24:22] Because the present situation, although
[24:24] it's pretending to be responsible, is in
[24:26] fact extremely irresponsible.
[24:30] Because it is
[24:31] dishonesty
[24:33] with respect to the way you feel towards
[24:35] another person.
[24:39] Well, now really when we go back then to
[24:40] falling in love
[24:43] and say it's crazy.
[24:47] Falling.
[24:48] You see? We don't say rising into love.
[24:54] There is in it the idea of the fall.
[24:57] And
[24:58] it is goes back as a matter of fact to
[25:00] extremely fundamental things.
[25:02] That
[25:04] there is always a curious
[25:08] tie at some point
[25:10] between the fall
[25:14] and the creation.
[25:17] Taking this ghastly risk
[25:21] is the condition of there being life.
[25:26] You see for all
[25:28] life
[25:30] is an act of faith and an act of gamble.
[25:34] The moment you take a step
[25:37] you do so on an act of faith because you
[25:39] don't really know that the floor is not
[25:40] going to give under your feet.
[25:43] The moment you take a journey, what an
[25:45] act of faith.
[25:47] The moment you enter into any kind of
[25:49] human undertaking in relationship, what
[25:51] an act of faith.
[25:52] You've given yourself up.
[25:56] But this is the most powerful thing that
[25:58] can be done. Surrender.
[26:00] See, and love is an act of surrender to
[26:02] another person.
[26:05] Total abandonment.
[26:08] I give myself to you.
[26:10] Take me. Do anything you like with me.
[26:12] See?
[26:15] So
[26:16] that's quite mad because you see it's
[26:18] letting things get out of control.
[26:21] All sensible people keep things in
[26:22] control.
[26:24] Watch it. Watch it. Watch it.
[26:27] Security.
[26:29] Vigilance.
[26:31] Watch it.
[26:32] Police, watch it. Guards, watch it.
[26:35] Who's going to watch the guards?
[26:40] So,
[26:42] actually, therefore, the the the course
[26:45] of wisdom,
[26:46] what is really sensible, uh is to let
[26:49] go. Uh is to commit oneself, to give
[26:51] oneself up, and that's quite mad. So, we
[26:53] come to the strange conclusion that in
[26:56] madness lies sanity. [music]
[27:02] >> [music]
[27:06] >> Today's podcast was brought to you by
[27:08] the Alan Watts Organization and [music]
[27:10] the Be Here Now Podcast Network.
[27:13] For further information about the spoken
[27:14] works of Alan Watts, please visit us at
[27:17] alanwatts.org.
[27:19] Thank you. This has been [music]
[27:21] Alan Watts in Being in the Way, the Alan
[27:24] Watts Podcast.
[27:28] >> [music]
[27:35] [music]