Transcript
[0:00] I wanted to be the best. I wanted to be
[0:04] successful. That's all I thought about
[0:06] was winning. And I just could shut it
[0:10] off. The thing I loved to do was the
[0:13] thing that was driving me crazy. You
[0:15] know, Terry Bradshaw because he is
[0:18] synonymous with American football. first
[0:21] as a Hall of Fame quarterback who led
[0:23] the Pittsburgh Steelers [music] to four
[0:25] Super Bowl titles in the 1970s and then
[0:28] [music] as an outspoken broadcaster who
[0:31] has co-hosted Fox NFL Sunday since 1994.
[0:35] Along the way, he's acted in movies.
[0:37] He's recorded [music] country music
[0:39] albums. But less wellknown and
[0:41] understood are the countless obstacles
[0:43] that he's faced and overcome along his
[0:46] very [music] long and windy path. like
[0:48] riding the bench in high school, being
[0:50] considered a giant flop by everyone
[0:52] during his rookie year with the
[0:54] Steelers, surviving two bouts with two
[0:56] different kinds [music] of cancer, an
[0:59] identity crisis, and a series of mental
[1:01] health challenges, all of which Terry
[1:04] details in his new [music] memoir,
[1:06] Looking for Terry, and talks about today
[1:08] with remarkable cander. Super Bowl's
[1:11] over. Horribly depressed. Terribly
[1:14] depressed for weeks. I knew something
[1:17] was wrong. And I knew that when I had
[1:20] these attacks, I knew how sickening they
[1:23] were. It made me sick. It's like
[1:26] watching the sun go down. And I'm
[1:28] watching it. It's fixing to get dark.
[1:30] Terry's definitely a one of one. And his
[1:32] larger than-l life personality
[1:34] definitely comes across in our
[1:36] wide-ranging conversation. I love it.
[1:38] And I think it will leave you with
[1:40] learnings about life and maybe even a
[1:43] new and deeper understanding of one of
[1:45] America's most indelible characters.
[1:47] [music]
[1:54] You did a great job with the book. It's
[1:56] a delight to have you here today. And
[1:58] the book
[2:00] is great for maybe uh unexpected
[2:04] reasons. I think it's great because it's
[2:07] very honest. It's very vulnerable. You
[2:10] are willing to talk about uh things that
[2:13] maybe you haven't talked about publicly
[2:15] before or at least not much. Uh and it
[2:18] defies the kind of athlete memoir trope
[2:22] of the typical professional athlete who
[2:26] writes a book with the hopes that it
[2:29] will extend their career. So, it's not
[2:31] always the most honest account of what
[2:33] actually happened. And I mean it's a
[2:35] book about facing and overcoming
[2:38] obstacles. It's about perseverance and
[2:40] resilience and you know all and and and
[2:43] I think it's also like so much about
[2:46] like what people don't know like I'm of
[2:48] the age like I grew up in Washington DC
[2:49] in the era of Joe Thyman
[2:52] >> and uh you know it was right in the
[2:54] pocket of like when you were you know at
[2:56] your peak peak powers. Um, and so it's
[3:01] much like your favorite bands are the
[3:04] ones you were listening to when you were
[3:06] 16. It stays with you your whole life.
[3:08] So in my mind, like this is the greatest
[3:10] era of football and it doesn't matter
[3:12] what anybody has done in the last 40
[3:14] years. Like this still stands out as
[3:16] like the glory days. Sometimes you have
[3:18] to remind the viewer [clears throat] or
[3:20] the reader,
[3:22] hey, we were pretty good. Mhm.
[3:25] >> Back in our day, as they like, as they
[3:27] phrase it, back in our day, we were
[3:28] pretty good. And today, in today's game,
[3:31] it's they can't get past uh, you know,
[3:36] the Bradies and the Mannings of the
[3:38] world. And, you know, the rest of us
[3:40] were, and I get it. I mean, sure,
[3:42] >> I'm 78. I'm not 38.
[3:44] >> Yeah. Who Who wants to hear about how
[3:45] great it was way back then?
[3:47] >> Yeah. Nobody, right?
[3:48] >> Nobody. Let me talk about my suspension
[3:50] helmet. We don't care about your That's
[3:52] your That's your problem. But you have
[3:54] choice words about uh the NFL in you
[3:59] know the late 1970s and early 80s versus
[4:02] the NFL today. You just want a Bill
[4:03] Maher and you you were you didn't edit
[4:05] your your thoughts on the differences.
[4:08] So what was great about back then that's
[4:11] missing today and what's better about
[4:13] today in the NFL versus your time?
[4:16] >> What what is missing is pretty obvious.
[4:19] the um
[4:21] um the compact the the the viciousness
[4:26] of it um physical very physical
[4:31] rules didn't protect anybody
[4:36] yeah there was no rules there was I
[4:38] don't recall rules
[4:41] >> being enforced or being um
[4:45] brought up to protect anybody body. It
[4:49] was um you know a holding penalty. I
[4:53] mean pass interference back then I mean
[4:56] it was pass interference. You didn't
[4:58] have to say it was a total collision. So
[5:01] I think I I think the aspect of it being
[5:04] more physical
[5:05] um is definitely
[5:09] uh the one thing that stands out. And
[5:11] let's understand one thing.
[5:14] What was so appealing about the NFL is
[5:17] is the viciousness of it, the gladiator
[5:20] of it. That's what is so appealing.
[5:23] Remember networks used to show the
[5:25] greatest hits of the week. And it was
[5:27] just like holy cow. You see that?
[5:31] >> There was no awareness of CTE or any
[5:37] we can have a romantic kind of
[5:38] relationship with that. But like was
[5:40] that good?
[5:41] >> You know, I mean, I'm sure you we were
[5:43] plenty of friends that have suffered
[5:45] later in life as a result of that
[5:47] gladiator.
[5:48] >> I played with Mike Webster.
[5:51] >> Um,
[5:53] >> but
[5:55] you asked me a question. the
[5:57] physicalness, the physical
[6:00] uh NFL in this heck 50s, 60s,7s,
[6:07] uh ' 80s is the rules started coming
[6:09] into play. Um
[6:12] but that's what was so great about him.
[6:14] People ask me all the time, all the man,
[6:16] what was it like to get hit by so and
[6:18] so? And I, well, you know,
[6:20] those guys don't hurt you as much as the
[6:22] guy you don't see. the guy you don't see
[6:24] that gets a clean shot at you. That's
[6:26] the one that hurts. Not the guy that
[6:28] weighs, you know, I didn't play against
[6:30] 300 lb guys or played with linemen that
[6:33] weigh 300 lb on the average. We had no
[6:36] one close to that. We didn't play with
[6:39] guys that overall had the great speed
[6:42] that they had that they 44 was very
[6:44] common. That was an occasional 4-3.
[6:48] But the the [clears throat] degree of
[6:50] athleticism
[6:50] >> toughness of the game,
[6:52] >> toughness versus the techdriven
[6:54] athleticism of today.
[6:56] >> So you take you take that part of the
[6:59] NFL and then you come forward. Now you
[7:04] have injuries. Now you have people
[7:07] getting See, we couldn't move
[7:08] [clears throat] either. We couldn't go
[7:10] anywhere.
[7:11] >> You're a Steeler. You stayed a Steeler
[7:12] unless they cut you or traded you. You
[7:14] weren't going anywhere.
[7:16] >> Nowhere. you couldn't go anywhere.
[7:18] >> That's the big
[7:20] >> that's that's a huge huge difference.
[7:21] And I think that's that's played out
[7:24] over culture at large. Like look at
[7:27] movies. They used to go into the theater
[7:29] and they would get, you know, six weeks
[7:32] to develop an audience before getting
[7:34] pulled from the theaters. And now if
[7:35] they don't have a good opening weekend,
[7:36] they're gone.
[7:37] >> Yeah.
[7:37] >> What's the average lifespan of the
[7:39] typical NFL player? It's not very long.
[7:42] They go into every game worried about
[7:43] getting cut or traded. you weren't
[7:45] allowed to like cook for a while and
[7:48] develop your, you know, kind of skill
[7:50] over time. And this comes across in the
[7:52] book like you you you had all these
[7:53] obstacles like it's not like just you
[7:56] hit it hard and were great from the
[7:57] get-go. you're you're on the bench and
[8:00] all that kind of stuff, but you were
[8:01] allowed to develop
[8:02] >> because I'm just about to say that
[8:05] because
[8:08] of the the short rope now players come
[8:13] out and be a first pick in the draft or
[8:15] the first pick now in two years. Look
[8:18] what happened to the quarterback in
[8:20] Minnesota from Michigan. First round
[8:22] pick, eighth eighth eighth eighth in the
[8:24] draft, I think, something like that. Now
[8:26] he's third turning. Now they're talking
[8:27] about where can he revive his career. I
[8:30] came out the first pick in the draft and
[8:32] I struggled.
[8:34] >> Mhm.
[8:34] >> Struggled.
[8:36] And it took me
[8:39] my first year horrific. Second year a
[8:41] little bit better. Third year, you know,
[8:44] getting more comfortable with running
[8:45] the offense. Fourth year definitely much
[8:48] better. [gasps and sighs]
[8:49] Today I wouldn't have made it.
[8:51] >> I would have been gone. I would have
[8:53] been gone because I had to grow up. I
[8:54] had to mature. I had to get used to
[8:57] being booed. I never was booed. I had
[8:59] to, you know, I had a tough coach. I We
[9:03] didn't have a coordinator. Had no
[9:04] offensive coordinator. We had no
[9:06] quarterback coach. We had uh we called
[9:09] our own plays. We didn't have, you know,
[9:11] a placard on our on [clears throat] our
[9:13] wrists. We it it was all in our in our
[9:16] hands. And so it was a lot of pressure.
[9:21] And
[9:23] now as the league from the 70s evolved
[9:27] with the West Coast offense getting rid
[9:29] of the ball quicker, Joe Montana then uh
[9:33] Bill Walsh's offense, Corell's offense,
[9:36] and San Diego uh and and it was fun to
[9:39] watch and more and more and more and
[9:41] more and more. And now we've got a game
[9:43] where in the last I would say 25 years
[9:46] has been fun. a lot of passing, a lot of
[9:49] this, a lot of that. And it it got to a
[9:54] point late 80s going into the '9s
[9:59] rules um and I think it's primarily
[10:02] probably because of lawsuits,
[10:05] you know, and um the league really got
[10:08] into uh protecting a a player. We had
[10:12] players committing suicide.
[10:15] um their brains were um um examined,
[10:20] autopsies performed, came up with CTE.
[10:24] You know, it's a it's a brain u injury
[10:28] disease, call it what you want,
[10:30] >> where players just man, they just lose
[10:34] they just lose their minds. I mean,
[10:36] Junior Seal committed suicide. Mike
[10:38] Webster, uh he just he just flat died.
[10:41] He was out under bridges sleeping in
[10:43] cars. We had another guy, another
[10:45] stealer took his car on the highway, saw
[10:47] a gas truck and just ran right into it,
[10:50] blew it up and killed himself
[10:52] intentionally.
[10:54] So, we had the game had to that the game
[10:58] had to get control of itself.
[11:00] >> Mhm. Um, and I think they've done a
[11:04] really good job, really good job of
[11:08] trying to protect the players, taking
[11:11] the h the head out of the the equation
[11:13] with the hits and everything, protecting
[11:16] the quarterbacks, um, use of hands by
[11:20] the linemen, so on so forth. They've
[11:22] just done a really good job pass
[11:24] interference. I mean, just done a really
[11:26] good job of
[11:29] trying to protect the players. Mhm.
[11:31] >> But the minute the minute the collisions
[11:34] end and the minute you you take away the
[11:37] violence and I love to use that word
[11:38] because that's a great word. That's I
[11:41] mean I think hockeyy's hockey is pretty
[11:43] bad man. That's some bad stuff there. I
[11:45] get a kick out of that.
[11:47] >> Um but when you take all that out uh
[11:51] you're going to take away
[11:53] >> part of that gladiator that the American
[11:56] public
[11:57] >> Mhm.
[11:57] >> you know. I don't know why. Why did we
[11:59] slow down? Why you ask yourself when
[12:01] you're on a highway, Rich, and you're
[12:02] driving and traffic just what's going
[12:04] on? You're looking up. Oh, there must be
[12:05] a wreck in your little computer on your
[12:08] your screen says, you know, there's a
[12:10] wreck on the highways and there's no
[12:12] reason. It's on the other side, but
[12:15] everybody's [clears throat] slowing down
[12:17] to take a look.
[12:18] >> Mhm.
[12:19] >> We We're drawn to that. I I don't know.
[12:22] I don't know what human nature
[12:23] >> the rubbernecking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[12:25] Well, amidst the kind of romance of all
[12:28] of that, you like your words are pretty
[12:32] melancholic in the book about this, like
[12:34] you have a complicated relationship with
[12:35] your playing days. You know, this this
[12:37] was,
[12:38] >> you know, and and and also like a
[12:40] complicated relationship with Pittsburgh
[12:42] and Three Rivers Stadium and, you know,
[12:44] it's not what people think like
[12:47] >> it was difficult for you, the booing
[12:49] and, you know, getting benched and this
[12:51] challenging, you know, relationship with
[12:53] the coach and and all of that. It isn't
[12:55] what people might imagine like, oh this
[12:59] Super Bowl MVP for Super, you know, all
[13:01] of it,
[13:01] >> right?
[13:01] >> That was that was the most
[13:06] complicated relationship that was kept
[13:10] private for the most part, my mine with
[13:13] with um Chuck Null to a point where it's
[13:17] unfortunate because when I started
[13:19] talking about it, people said exactly
[13:20] what you just said. Oh,
[13:24] we win Super Bowls. It It ought to be
[13:27] great. And
[13:29] And the problem wasn't
[13:32] Pittsburgh [snorts] and it wasn't Chuck
[13:34] Null.
[13:36] It was me because I had I was the one
[13:38] that had to grow up. I had to grow up.
[13:41] Now,
[13:43] >> once I once I was able to control me,
[13:47] >> which took a long time by the way,
[13:49] >> then how you doing with that now? I'm
[13:52] doing good. [laughter] Okay. Then then
[13:54] then the relationship
[13:57] uh didn't bother me and I didn't care if
[14:01] he didn't like me. I didn't care. I
[14:03] mean, I weren't afraid of him anymore.
[14:04] Once I once I lost that fear of him,
[14:08] then then I was fine. But still but
[14:11] still, anytime I was in his presence or
[14:14] I [laughter]
[14:15] >> But there's coaching there's coaching
[14:17] lessons in this too. Like part of it
[14:19] Yes. is you growing up and taking
[14:21] responsibility for how you're composing
[14:23] yourself in the midst of this situation.
[14:25] >> You [laughter] got to know, Rich. You
[14:26] got to know what you got to know what
[14:29] you you got to know in adversity. What
[14:31] do you respond to? How do you respond?
[14:34] Um some people Joe name [snorts]
[14:40] Joe didn't even face him. Bothered me.
[14:42] I'm It bothered me. I see like the
[14:45] little boy Terry who could have used a
[14:49] coach who was motivating him with a
[14:52] positive encouragement rather than that
[14:54] philosophy, you know, of the time which
[14:56] was tear them down, don't show them any
[14:58] love. This is how you harden somebody
[15:00] up, right?
[15:01] >> Uh I don't I've had coaches like that in
[15:03] the past like this is not the way to,
[15:06] you know, develop uh an athlete to have
[15:09] a relationship with mastery over time.
[15:12] You know what I mean?
[15:13] I I think that
[15:15] >> coaching has advanced quite a bit since
[15:16] then and I would hope that most coaches
[15:18] now understand uh understand this but
[15:21] you know in the 70s like this wasn't the
[15:24] case. It was you know kind of a drill
[15:26] sergeant um way of
[15:30] >> motivation that that really is a uh uh
[15:34] not a good long-term
[15:37] >> strategy. You know what? You know what
[15:39] you respond to as a as a grown-up, as a
[15:42] man. I learned
[15:45] [sighs] what I I I learned and then I
[15:47] compared
[15:49] what I respond to. If you if you love if
[15:54] you love me up,
[15:56] I'm I'm I'm yours forever. I'll do
[16:00] anything for you. I'll run through
[16:01] walls. I Nothing Nothing will stop me.
[16:05] I'll I'll perform like you've never I
[16:07] want you to be happy with me and pleased
[16:09] with me and because you you show me love
[16:13] and you're kind and I'm I totally
[16:16] understand I'm in a competitive world.
[16:19] I'm not oblivious to that. I know I'm
[16:21] dealing with with uh I know what I'm
[16:25] dealing with at with my job is to win
[16:27] and and perform under pressure. I but
[16:31] I'll I'll handle it so much better. And
[16:34] my coach in college for for instance was
[16:37] Mickey Slaughter and he played in the
[16:39] NFL for the Denver Broncos. And he just
[16:42] he just man there wasn't anything I
[16:44] wasn't great at. Wasn't anything I
[16:46] couldn't do. And I mean he just he would
[16:49] not let me get down on myself. And I
[16:52] loved him for it. And I responded to
[16:54] that. And then I go to where, you know,
[16:57] if you don't play well, I'm benching
[16:59] your ass. You know, then and you're and
[17:01] you play scared. You can't play scared.
[17:03] That's that's no good. I mean, it got so
[17:08] bad, Rich. I'm rolling. I'll never
[17:10] forget this. I'll give you one play. I'm
[17:12] rolling out against the Buffalo Bills at
[17:13] Three Rivers Stadium, and the guy in
[17:16] front of me, our our receiver has got
[17:18] nobody around him. I'm talking wide
[17:22] open.
[17:24] And I threw it right in the ground.
[17:27] Right. Right in the turf. Boo. I mean,
[17:30] but they were already booing, man. And
[17:32] it was just like, golly, that's what you
[17:36] call that's not that's that's a person
[17:39] that can't handle pressure, you know?
[17:41] You don't.
[17:42] >> But then when you have when you have all
[17:45] the confidence in the world, you thread
[17:47] the needle and a guy's hand misses it by
[17:50] a half an inch. Then you snap it right
[17:53] in there. Yeah. Or also just feeling
[17:56] safe to take risks, you know, because
[17:58] even if people are booing, you know, the
[18:00] coach believes in you, has your back,
[18:03] your teammates believe in you. But there
[18:06] is there's got to be more running scared
[18:08] today in the NFL versus then because of
[18:13] uh you know the realities of of how
[18:15] short these careers are. Even if you
[18:17] have a coach that is reinforcing you
[18:19] with all the positive motivation in the
[18:20] world,
[18:21] >> if you're in the league eight or nine
[18:22] years and you're an NFL quarterback,
[18:25] they're [clears throat] they're already
[18:27] talking about we're going to have to
[18:29] find somebody to to groom.
[18:32] >> Mhm. you know, there very few Bradies
[18:35] that play 18, 19 years or or Mannings
[18:39] that play 17 years or there's a lot of
[18:42] players that play
[18:45] 14, 15, 16 years. Uh but now now it's we
[18:50] [snorts] gota we got to find that
[18:51] replacement, you know,
[18:53] >> and so there's a lot of pressure on
[18:56] these and these coaches and you're
[18:57] right, these coaches don't have these
[19:00] [clears throat] coaches, they don't have
[19:02] they don't have much time to be
[19:03] successful. It's, you know,
[19:05] >> Yeah. They're on the line, too.
[19:06] >> Yeah. And I've said this on I say this
[19:08] on Fox
[19:10] a lot. My one thing is when they talk
[19:13] about, well, this they got to fire this
[19:15] coach, get rid of this quarterback. And
[19:17] I said, you got to give them time.
[19:18] >> You got to let them implement their
[19:20] offer, you got to let them get the
[19:21] players they want.
[19:23] >> But these owners, you know, they don't
[19:25] have the patience for that. You know,
[19:27] they want to get got to get rid of them
[19:28] and bring another one in. And I've
[19:30] [clears throat] always said, when you
[19:31] bring in a brand new coach, you should
[19:36] see some improvement somewhere somewhere
[19:39] in your football team. There should be
[19:42] improvement and if you don't see any
[19:44] improvement, you got the wrong guy. And
[19:46] that happens a lot. Well, you get the
[19:48] wrong guy. [snorts]
[19:50] When you reflect back on your life and
[19:53] your career, your successes, the
[19:55] challenges, etc. Like, how do you make
[19:58] sense of this? Like, there's Godgiven
[20:01] talent. Uh you're you're a naturalb born
[20:04] performer as an athlete and as a
[20:06] broadcaster. I mean, you're a character,
[20:08] dude, you know, and you're doing what
[20:09] you should be doing. Like, you're just
[20:11] bigger than life. Um, so you're in the
[20:14] right spot for
[20:16] uh for how you're kind of built, I
[20:19] think, genetically. And I'm sure there
[20:20] was just tremendous hard work and
[20:22] resilience and all the like, but like
[20:24] you've lived a crazy life. It's been
[20:27] interesting,
[20:28] you know? I mean, [gasps]
[20:31] it's been interesting. Um
[20:34] I don't know what I haven't done
[20:41] that doesn't it that's a part of
[20:43] entertainment from movies to singing. I
[20:47] still sing. I still um
[20:49] >> How many albums you put out?
[20:51] >> Five. I want to do another gospel album.
[20:54] I've been singing in Branson. We were
[20:56] voted the number one um limited show in
[21:00] Branson. And I was like, "Oh, that is so
[21:02] cool." And so we took a year off. I had
[21:05] to get hip replacement surgery. So we
[21:07] took a year off and said, "We'll go back
[21:09] to Branson next year. I love to sing and
[21:11] perform because it's a it's another form
[21:13] of entertainment, you know,
[21:15] >> and I'm in my 33rd year at Fox doing a
[21:19] show." And so you try you try I I would
[21:23] tell any young person coming out, I
[21:26] would say try it all. If you get the
[21:29] opportunity, try it all. All right? More
[21:32] than likely, you're not going to be very
[21:34] good at it, but give it a shot. You
[21:37] know, it's it's uh it's kind of it's it
[21:41] may not even be in your bucket list or
[21:42] if you have one, if you even have one.
[21:45] But I just I just tried everything and
[21:47] just you know and the and the thing that
[21:50] that I'm most proud of is that I did try
[21:52] everything
[21:54] >> and now I know that I'm good at
[21:56] television
[21:58] and I can sing and entertain. I can
[22:01] perform so I love that and I give
[22:04] corporate speeches which I love and
[22:06] that's three forms of entertainment. You
[22:08] do that. So
[22:09] >> what what what is the the core theme or
[22:12] message of the motivational speeches?
[22:14] What do you what do you hammering
[22:15] people?
[22:15] >> I don't necessarily think of myself as a
[22:17] motivational speaker. Now I think that's
[22:19] how they book me. Um it's I'm kind of
[22:24] I'm I'm down to being a humorist now. So
[22:27] the title of a speech has been for
[22:30] 40some years is why not your best. I've
[22:32] never used that title. I've never even
[22:35] mentioned it. But I get a call one day,
[22:37] hey we got to give your speech a title.
[22:39] Really? Well I why we got to do that?
[22:42] Well, you know, they we got to promote
[22:44] what way I'm promoting came up with.
[22:46] Well, why not your best and but I've
[22:48] never [laughter]
[22:49] >> And what what are the tenets? Like what
[22:51] are you communicating in this speech or
[22:53] these speeches?
[22:54] >> Here's the thing.
[22:55] >> No matter who you are, no matter what
[22:57] your position in life, no matter no
[22:59] matter your your wealth or lack of
[23:04] we're we're it's human beings, okay? I
[23:07] don't care who you are. Donald Trump,
[23:09] um, uh, the Pope, everybody is a human
[23:14] being. Everybody deals, uh, with
[23:18] depression, highs, lows, everybody deals
[23:21] with failure. Everybody deals with and
[23:24] and everybody has had some form of
[23:28] success in their life. Everybody.
[23:31] [snorts] And so I talk to them as
[23:34] humans. And I [clears throat] and my
[23:37] whole my whole story, my whole speech is
[23:40] wrapped around human beings and how to
[23:42] treat people and how to face adversity
[23:45] and how to overcome it. And I add humor.
[23:48] I put h it's filled with humor and I
[23:52] like to get out in the audience. I like
[23:54] to touch people. I like to shake their
[23:55] hand. I no matter how big the crowd is.
[23:58] So the whole the whole speech is based
[24:00] on the human being. And
[24:04] >> because I'm look I I'll talk to a banker
[24:07] on this Monday's speech and then Tuesday
[24:09] I'm talking to engineers. Wednesday I'm
[24:12] talking to farmers. Then Thursday I'm
[24:14] talking to brain surgeons. All four
[24:17] different all four different but they're
[24:19] what? Common the common denominator.
[24:21] They're all human. And so you have to
[24:23] you have to you have to strip the titles
[24:27] and walk out there. Now, most
[24:29] intimidating I have been in a long time
[24:33] in giving a speech. I was in Austin,
[24:36] Texas.
[24:37] And who was on the front row? Admiral
[24:40] Bill McRaven,
[24:42] the guy that orchestrated and designed
[24:45] the Osama bin Laden Reed [clears throat]
[24:47] that killed him.
[24:49] He's right there.
[24:50] >> What are you going to tell this guy,
[24:52] [snorts]
[24:53] >> man? It I'm not kid. It tripped me. It
[24:56] >> Yeah. I'm like, that that guy's a
[24:59] fourstar admiral. I mean, are you
[25:02] kidding me there? This guy is smart.
[25:05] This guy is a seal. This guy's been
[25:09] through adversity. This guy knows what
[25:11] it's like to face pain and torture. To
[25:15] get to a positive result,
[25:17] >> the end result's always got to be
[25:19] positive.
[25:20] >> And it screwed with your head.
[25:24] >> [laughter]
[25:25] >> Did you talk to him after?
[25:27] >> Yes. Yes.
[25:28] >> And what'd he say?
[25:29] >> He said, "I love your speech." And I'm
[25:31] like,
[25:32] >> he's being nice, isn't he? [laughter]
[25:35] >> So, even you can have imposter syndrome
[25:37] imposttor syndrome.
[25:38] >> Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely.
[25:42] Absolutely. It absolutely. I mean, I'm
[25:46] not I'm not [laughter]
[25:48] I'm not um oblivious to to facing um
[25:55] fear and struggling with [laughter] I'm
[25:59] going to get through this. That's Bill
[26:00] McRaven.
[26:01] >> Yeah,
[26:04] >> autonomy wasn't something I was thinking
[26:06] much about when I recently got behind
[26:07] the wheel of a Rivian R2 with founder
[26:10] and CEO R.J. Scrange. [music]
[26:12] But when R.J. started talking about
[26:14] where Rivian is headed with it, I
[26:16] couldn't stop thinking about it after.
[26:19] >> What's your latest thinking on the short
[26:21] and long-term future of autonomous
[26:25] driving?
[26:26] >> I think shortterm it's going to continue
[26:28] to get better for us. We get to a place
[26:30] by the end of this year where we'll do
[26:34] hands-off pointto-oint navigation. So
[26:36] meaning you could plug the address in,
[26:37] say, tell it to go and it'll drive there
[26:39] on its own. Today we have hands off,
[26:41] what we call universal handsfree where
[26:42] you can take your hands off, it can
[26:44] drive, but it essentially stays on the
[26:46] path it's on.
[26:46] >> Yeah.
[26:47] >> But the next step is to integrate that
[26:48] into navigation. So it it navigates
[26:51] through turns, obviously, stop lights,
[26:53] stop signs, everything. And that's this
[26:54] year. And then next year, we get to that
[26:58] plus eyes off. So we'll start with eyes
[27:01] off on highway. So you can be completely
[27:03] removed.
[27:03] >> It doesn't It doesn't beep.
[27:05] >> It doesn't handle. Yeah, you can do
[27:07] whatever you'd like. Yeah, you can do
[27:08] whatever you'd like. Wow. The autonomy
[27:10] and assisted driving features on the R2
[27:12] today and the ones on the horizon are
[27:14] just part of what makes it such a
[27:16] compelling vehicle. You can learn all
[27:18] about the Rivian R2. Watch the rest of
[27:20] our conversation and even book a demo
[27:22] drive at stories.revian.com/rich
[27:26] roll.
[27:28] This podcast is brought to you by
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[28:40] domain.
[28:44] >> Near the end of the book, you share uh
[28:47] this story about taking on a 14-day
[28:50] challenge of kindness.
[28:51] >> Oh my god. Which, you know, which kind
[28:54] of is is laudable, but also gives you
[28:57] the opportunity to say, "Hey, I'm a
[28:58] human being, too." like this was really
[29:00] this was like the hardest thing I've
[29:01] ever done. And you see and being a
[29:03] people person already, you would think
[29:05] that would come more naturally.
[29:06] >> It was fine. It was fine. What
[29:10] you should tell them what what what it
[29:12] was what I what I was doing.
[29:14] >> Well, you read some self-help book that
[29:17] encouraged you to do this and you're
[29:18] like, "All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna do
[29:19] this. Like, I'm gonna take this on. I'm
[29:21] gonna be kind to everybody
[29:24] >> all day for 14 days. Be nice." Now,
[29:26] you're going to think bad thoughts, but
[29:28] don't say them. Everything out of your
[29:29] mouth is positive, positive, positive,
[29:32] positive. Hey, how you doing? That's
[29:33] good. Oh, I see you just just lost your
[29:36] arm. How's that going? Ah, you look
[29:39] great one armed. I mean, everything is
[29:41] positive. No negative out of your mouth.
[29:44] And I started it in Chicago
[29:48] right off the bat walking down. Hey, how
[29:49] you doing? Good to see you. Which I'm I
[29:51] I pretty much do all the time anyway. I
[29:53] got in the car and the driver's taking
[29:54] me to Wisconsin. Hey, how you doing?
[29:56] Good to see you. Oh, what a beautiful
[29:58] day pouring down rain. Oh, d Oh, this is
[30:00] great. Everything. Hey, how you doing?
[30:03] Oh, it's good. Oh, I don't like you. I
[30:05] never have liked you. Well, I'm signing
[30:06] books. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you felt
[30:08] like that, but hey, I really appreciate
[30:10] you coming. I mean, just take everything
[30:13] and positive, positive. No negative,
[30:17] MAN. I GOT [laughter] GOT HOME. I got
[30:20] home to Texas in 14 days. Oh my god, I
[30:24] was exhausted. Exhausted just from just
[30:28] from being nice. But what is the impact
[30:31] that did that have a lasting impact on
[30:33] you or did you just immediately go back
[30:35] to like I can't wait to be mean to
[30:36] somebody?
[30:38] >> No, I wasn't thinking about being mean,
[30:39] but you know, you're just automatically
[30:41] going to say, you know,
[30:44] >> oh man, what a lousy. This is no good. I
[30:47] mean, you you go right back in. I I'm
[30:50] not a mean person, but I will.
[30:54] >> You're a human being, and it's hard to
[30:56] be It's hard to be any human body.
[30:57] >> But here's the thing, Rich. You got to
[30:58] think about it. You know, you got to
[31:00] think about it. Now, things just roll
[31:02] off just come out of my mouth. My wife,
[31:04] who was always with me, I'll get a tap
[31:07] on the leg under her table and I'm
[31:09] going, "Oh, oh boy."
[31:10] >> Yeah. Well, your superpower is your
[31:12] Achilles heel when it comes to your
[31:14] mouth
[31:14] >> for sure. Right. you're digging holes,
[31:17] you know, all the time for yourself. Uh,
[31:20] but that's also part of your part of the
[31:22] appeal, I think. Like, no one knows what
[31:24] you're going to say, but they know
[31:26] they're going to get you. Uh, and and I
[31:28] think that that that is also
[31:31] illustrative of this theme that recurs
[31:33] in the book around like authenticity.
[31:36] Like there is Terry, the performer, and
[31:38] you know, you talk about like these
[31:40] multiple identities. You've got Roy
[31:42] who's kind of like the dark angry guy.
[31:43] You know,
[31:44] >> I know about Roy.
[31:45] >> Yeah, Roy. Everybody's got a royal.
[31:46] >> I mean, only from the book, not in
[31:48] personal experience, but maybe he'll
[31:49] come out today. I don't know.
[31:51] >> No, no, no. I parked Royy's outside in
[31:53] the car. No. Okay. Um,
[31:57] >> and this tension between like, okay,
[31:59] when you're when you're performing and
[32:01] there's this more like kind of good old
[32:03] boy, Terry version of yourself. Like
[32:05] part of that's authentic to who you are
[32:07] and part of it is like the volume's
[32:08] turned up on that for
[32:10] >> showtime.
[32:10] >> For Showtime and being the performer,
[32:12] right? Like who is the real Terry? you
[32:15] know, at the base beneath all of these
[32:18] this this multiplicity of of
[32:20] personalities.
[32:21] >> Well, I
[32:22] and how comfortable are you in in that
[32:25] Terry's skin these days?
[32:26] >> Yeah. Boy, that's a good question. I um
[32:30] my wife knows the real Terry because
[32:32] she's with me 247.
[32:34] Um and I'm just like every I'm like
[32:38] anybody else. I love I love to laugh. I
[32:42] have a big personality. I see the bright
[32:44] side of everything. I truly do. I love
[32:46] people. I'm interested in people. I'm
[32:48] interested in what they say. And I know
[32:50] when I'm and and I know when I'm on
[32:52] stage, it's time to perform. You You
[32:55] can't tell me that Mickey Rooney or um
[32:58] Bob Hope or Jerry Lewis or any of those
[33:01] great comed you can't tell me that when
[33:03] they went off stage, you know, it was
[33:06] they didn't just go back and keep
[33:08] cracking jokes all the way till they go
[33:10] to bed. So, I I don't think I'm any
[33:12] different than that. But I'm pretty much
[33:15] what you see on television that that's
[33:18] how I approach. I get up in the mornings
[33:20] and I go to down to the barn and I'm
[33:22] loving on everybody. I'm cracking jokes
[33:24] with everybody. I'm you know I'm trying
[33:27] to make people laugh and make them have
[33:28] a good day. I enjoy that is my persona.
[33:31] That's what I like to do. And when I and
[33:35] then when I and then when I'm I get hurt
[33:40] um I'm hurt. I'm genuinely hurt.
[33:43] Um,
[33:45] and then my wife will tell me, "It's
[33:47] okay to say no. You don't have to do
[33:50] them. It's okay to say no." And I have a
[33:52] hard time saying no. And because I don't
[33:55] say no, I get myself into situations
[33:57] where, you know, it bites me in the
[34:00] butt. Um, but I'm pretty much that guy.
[34:05] I'm pretty much a jovial guy all the
[34:07] time. That's just the way I live my
[34:09] life.
[34:11] If depression hits me and Roy shows up,
[34:16] uh, that's an ugly moment.
[34:19] >> And that's when I get quiet and that's
[34:23] when that's when, um, being married to a
[34:26] great woman who knows you inside and
[34:28] out, that's when
[34:31] she pulls me out of it. And that's
[34:35] that's huge. But if she was sitting
[34:37] right there talking right now, she would
[34:39] tell you I'm pretty much I'm pretty much
[34:42] on a high all the time. I I'm a but I'm
[34:46] a smart enough guy to know that uh I
[34:49] love this and I love that and I want to
[34:51] do this and I want to do that and I can
[34:54] I can create this over here and I can
[34:56] create that but I can't really
[35:01] make it happen. So I hire the right
[35:03] people. So, I'm I guess you'd call me
[35:06] the visionary guy. Oh, I the horse
[35:09] business. It's all my vision, but my
[35:11] wife, my trainer, and every they make it
[35:15] happen. Not me. Not me.
[35:17] >> Um, but I know that I know that about me
[35:20] and I know I know I make um decisions
[35:24] just like that
[35:25] >> quickly.
[35:26] >> Yes.
[35:26] >> Decisively.
[35:27] >> And then go
[35:28] >> then tomorrow morning I'll wake up and
[35:30] go, damn,
[35:31] >> would I get myself?
[35:32] >> And she'll tell me. She'll say, "Thank
[35:35] God for her cuz she saved us a lot of
[35:38] money because she'll say, "Honey,
[35:40] I know you want to do it. Let's just
[35:42] sleep on it.
[35:43] >> Let's just sleep." And the next day I'm
[35:45] like, "I don't want to do." And she's
[35:47] right. She's right.
[35:48] >> Yeah. You made it.
[35:49] >> If I weren't married to her, I
[35:51] >> You've made a few bad business deals in
[35:53] your day.
[35:54] >> Yes.
[35:55] >> You know.
[35:55] >> Yeah.
[35:57] >> You've got some big successes now. Um, I
[36:00] think that you are a deeply sensitive
[36:03] person beneath the boulder dash and and
[36:05] and the kind of like large public
[36:07] personality. Like I feel like you're
[36:10] somebody who
[36:12] wasn't wired to really compartmentalize
[36:15] the booing and all of you know all of
[36:17] these kind of like
[36:20] obstacles that you had to overcome and
[36:22] the public's perception of you. It it
[36:24] feels like in reading your book like you
[36:27] were taking it harder than maybe
[36:29] somebody else uh would have in in in
[36:32] your shoes. [snorts] Do you think that
[36:34] that's fair?
[36:36] >> And that's and and you did your best to
[36:39] like, you know, carry on and push it
[36:41] down.
[36:41] >> I had to find a way.
[36:42] >> This stuff doesn't go away.
[36:43] >> It hurts me. It hurts me.
[36:46] >> Um [clears throat] I'm not going to lie
[36:48] to you. Um being booed hurt um
[36:52] um being called dumb. I mean, it kept
[36:53] you from going back to Pittsburgh for a
[36:55] very long time.
[36:56] >> Long time. I just I didn't go to Mr.
[36:58] Rooney's funeral because I didn't want
[36:59] to be around Chuck Milner, but And that
[37:02] just was wrong of me. Just so immature.
[37:04] But that's, [gasps]
[37:06] >> you know, that's me. Um, not proud of
[37:09] it. There a lot of things I've done I'm
[37:11] not proud of, but you're you're spot on.
[37:13] I'm just unfortunately
[37:16] at 78 I still get my feelings hurt. I
[37:19] still long for people to love me. Yeah.
[37:21] Still.
[37:22] >> Yeah. You got you got that gene, right?
[37:23] >> I can't.
[37:24] >> When you were playing though, was your
[37:26] were you conscious of having this
[37:27] motivation of needing and wanting to be
[37:30] like like was your external mo was your
[37:32] was your motivation externalized based
[37:34] upon perception or were you internally
[37:37] motivated by like just I want to be the
[37:39] best football player that I can be.
[37:40] >> Right. I No, I wanted to be the that was
[37:44] all I is all I thought about. I told I
[37:47] people I've had people say, "What was he
[37:50] like in the huddle?" Well, he would
[37:51] change plays in the huddle. He'd call a
[37:53] play and change a play. Well, yeah,
[37:55] that's because I'm calling the plays and
[37:57] while I'm calling the play
[38:00] something. Oh, no. I'm not going to run
[38:02] that. Here, let's run this because I
[38:04] Nobody Nobody called my plays. I call
[38:06] those plays. Those are my plays. of all
[38:08] the things of all the things I have to
[38:10] do in my life, one of the things I'm so
[38:12] proud of is that Pton Manning didn't
[38:15] call his place and Tom Brady didn't call
[38:17] his place and um nobody else called
[38:21] their place. You know, I called my own
[38:24] place. Well, and my buddy, my brother
[38:26] Howie says, "Well, you only had four." I
[38:28] said, "Yeah, okay. I got four. You're
[38:30] going to the right or to the left?"
[38:32] [laughter]
[38:33] >> But at least you were calling them.
[38:34] >> Exactly. I mean, you you're right. I
[38:36] wanted I wanted to be the best ever.
[38:42] No, that's not true. I wanted to be the
[38:46] best that day. I wanted to be successful
[38:51] that day. That's all I thought about was
[38:54] winning. Um I could not separate
[39:00] winning from everyday life. Super Bowl's
[39:03] over. horribly depressed, terribly
[39:06] depressed for weeks. And because I
[39:10] couldn't separate it, I couldn't say
[39:14] Super Bowl's over. Going home to the
[39:16] farm, going to fish, love my dogs,
[39:18] family, plow, cut hay, love on my
[39:22] animals, show horses, cattle, whatever
[39:24] it is I'm going to do. I could. It was
[39:26] right into next year. H [snorts] God, we
[39:31] got to win again next year. Got to play
[39:33] Cleveland again next year. Got to play
[39:35] Cincinnat. Got to play the Raiders. God.
[39:38] And I just couldn't shut it off. And
[39:42] when I
[39:44] I was always looking for a way to shut
[39:48] it off. I was always looking when I had
[39:50] a chance to do a television show with
[39:52] Mel Tillis and it had it been picked up
[39:55] by NBC, I would have retired at eight
[39:57] years eight years in the league. That
[40:00] was pretty cool because we had won four
[40:02] Super Bowls and I like that. But it got
[40:04] me out of it got me away from football.
[40:07] >> Yeah.
[40:07] >> And it didn't happen. I had to keep
[40:10] playing.
[40:12] It It probably shouldn't have played. I,
[40:14] you know, it's it's really a tortured
[40:17] me, you know, but I just The thing I
[40:20] love to do was the thing that was
[40:22] driving me crazy.
[40:23] >> Right.
[40:24] >> You ever had that?
[40:25] >> Sure. It's it's uh
[40:28] it's almost rigged that way. Uh
[40:30] >> it's a disease. It's incurable, [gasps]
[40:34] you know.
[40:34] >> Do you first of all, do you feel like
[40:36] you fulfilled that promise to yourself
[40:38] to be the best player that you could be
[40:41] >> or is there something that you didn't
[40:43] leave on the field that
[40:44] >> I don't necessarily? Yeah. I don't to
[40:47] answer your question, no. I don't think
[40:48] I was the best player I could be because
[40:51] I played I played too much in fear
[40:54] instead of being free. Um,
[40:57] >> talk more about that.
[40:58] >> Well, I was afraid early in my career if
[41:01] I played poorly, I was going to be
[41:02] benched. And [snorts] early in my
[41:04] career, I was benched. And then probably
[41:07] it probably wasn't until the end of my
[41:09] career, my last I would say four or five
[41:12] years where I had control of the
[41:15] situation and I wasn't worried about
[41:17] being benched. But for so many years
[41:20] there,
[41:22] >> yeah,
[41:22] >> we won we won a Super Bowl, Super Bowl
[41:25] nine, man. I I'm going to be honest with
[41:28] you, I was benched twice that year.
[41:31] >> Yeah.
[41:32] >> I didn't even start the whole year. I
[41:33] was I lost my job in training camp to
[41:36] Joe Gillum. He lost it back to me. I
[41:39] lost it to Terry Henry. Terry lost it
[41:42] back to me. I lost it to Terry Henry. I
[41:44] mean, [sighs and gasps] man, that's no
[41:46] way to play.
[41:47] >> Yeah. [clears throat]
[41:48] >> That's like a footnote in history, but
[41:50] that was a big deal that kind of gets
[41:53] forgotten about.
[41:54] >> Yeah. And you know what? Let me tell you
[41:55] something. You don't want to talk about
[41:56] it and you don't want to bring it up.
[41:58] Me, not you. Because people say, "Wack,
[42:02] man. and you want all those words, but
[42:04] when you what you're saying and
[42:06] it's not. It's not. It
[42:10] It's not. And because it's coming out,
[42:15] you know, it's like, ah, it's trying to
[42:17] sell books. This book's not going to
[42:18] sell. I know this book's not going to
[42:20] sell. None of my books, I mean, none of
[42:23] them sell. Why would this one sell? I
[42:25] don't think it's going to sell. I'm
[42:26] going to bust my ass to see that it
[42:28] sells. But if they get their money back,
[42:31] you know, that's fine. But I'm I'm not
[42:33] looking for this book to sell at all. I
[42:36] did the book I did this book for me. I
[42:40] didn't do it for money cuz I'm not
[42:42] making any money on it, you know. I do
[42:44] Branson. I sing in Branson. I sing in
[42:46] Branson for fun. And it's I enjoy and it
[42:50] and and it it it lets me showcase. I I
[42:54] love it when people say, "Oh my god, I
[42:57] didn't know he could sing that good."
[42:59] And I'm like, "That's what I want to
[43:01] hear." It's no money. You put, you know,
[43:05] you don't do every everything is not for
[43:07] money, you know.
[43:09] >> It just feels good. It makes me feel
[43:11] good. I And I think it,
[43:13] >> you know, it [clears throat] maybe it
[43:15] separates me a little bit from everybody
[43:17] else, which I like.
[43:19] >> Meaning that you
[43:20] >> I can do other things. do these other
[43:22] things just because it lights you up and
[43:25] you're not constrained because you're
[43:27] making so much money on the broadcasting
[43:28] stuff. [laughter]
[43:29] >> Yeah.
[43:31] >> That paves the way for all these other
[43:33] >> things that you can do with your
[43:34] >> I mean you wait you wake up every day
[43:36] and you're going, "Boy, I'm the I've
[43:39] overcome so much in my life and man, I'm
[43:41] fired up and people can't wait to hear
[43:43] what I got to say and I'm going to write
[43:44] a book and do a podcast." You do that
[43:46] every day. You feel like that you I
[43:49] mean, you got the last word here. Yep.
[43:52] >> Well, I have I think I have a pretty
[43:53] good gig. I got you. Like, I get to
[43:56] spend that.
[43:57] >> I drove in the traffic to come out here
[43:58] and see [laughter] you.
[43:59] >> You came to me, brother.
[44:01] >> You asked me to come to you.
[44:03] >> Um,
[44:04] >> back [snorts] to the admiral and and
[44:07] back to the day when you got to call
[44:08] your plays. Like, a quarterback has to
[44:10] lead a team.
[44:12] >> You have to demonstrate leadership
[44:14] abilities in that role. Especially if
[44:16] you're calling plays, you have to have
[44:18] your guys bought into your vision of
[44:20] what to do in the moment. You're making
[44:22] these snap decisions.
[44:23] >> So, you are by every definition
[44:26] >> a leader. You have to be a leader,
[44:28] especially to take your team to the
[44:29] Super Bowl, etc.
[44:31] >> Yeah. What's your definition of
[44:33] >> I want to I want to understand like your
[44:35] definition of leadership and what you've
[44:37] learned about leadership roles and what
[44:40] you want to say about leadership broadly
[44:43] because I think we're in a moment in
[44:46] which we could use a little bit of sound
[44:49] leadership.
[44:50] >> Yeah. Sound moral leadership.
[44:52] >> Yes.
[44:53] >> Yes. I agree. Leadership to me is
[44:57] and I've looked it up. [laughter] I
[45:01] looked up the word le leadership to get
[45:03] a definition and it's uh so many so many
[45:09] descriptions of leadership. Mine is very
[45:12] simple.
[45:14] Um I'm going to love you to greatness.
[45:18] I'm I'm not going to My way of being
[45:21] your friend is I'm going to bust my ass
[45:24] for you today in this interview. All
[45:26] right. I'm going do my best.
[45:28] >> I'm feeling it.
[45:28] >> Yeah. That's what I'm that's what I want
[45:30] to do. I want you to enjoy this and I
[45:32] want all your your viewers to enjoy it
[45:35] and in the best ever and I want to make
[45:38] it easy. And that's that's that's me
[45:40] giving to you. My leadership was the
[45:44] same way. I'm I was not a I'm not a
[45:47] hostile screamer. I don't have time to
[45:49] scream at you. If you disappoint me,
[45:52] Rich,
[45:54] I'm not going to say anything. It's I'm
[45:56] gonna it's going to eat at me until
[45:59] finally um if [clears throat] I can't
[46:02] say something to you because of my
[46:04] relationship, I'll have my wife talk to
[46:07] you and I'll tell her, "Golly, it really
[46:10] hurt me when" and and I've even said,
[46:12] "Look, when I'm when I die, will you
[46:14] will you say this and say that? I I I'm
[46:19] all about um moral support. I'm all
[46:24] about positive. I hate negative. I don't
[46:26] like screaming. I'm not going to scream.
[46:29] I'm not going to yell. I'm not I'm not
[46:31] going to berate you in front of people.
[46:34] I had to stand up in front of the team
[46:36] one day and stand in my chair so my
[46:38] coach could chew my ass out in front of
[46:40] the team. How about that? You know,
[46:41] that's going to make me fight hard,
[46:43] isn't it? But I I led, you know, like a
[46:46] lot of people do. I led by example and I
[46:48] led with love and kindness and and and
[46:53] I was always smart enough to in to
[46:56] involve people in decision making and if
[46:59] you involve people in decision making
[47:01] then that lets them know that hey he he
[47:05] respects my opinion.
[47:06] >> So that's that's what I liked and that's
[47:10] what and that's what I give. I don't I
[47:13] don't want you to disappoint me. All
[47:17] right? Because I don't I like you and I
[47:19] don't want you to look I I don't want to
[47:22] disappoint you. I have fired my uncle
[47:25] after 19 years. 19 years and I had to
[47:29] fire him. Should I wanted to fire him 10
[47:33] years ago? I fired uh a manager of mine
[47:37] after 18 years. Uh, and I should have
[47:41] fired him earlier, but I didn't. I
[47:43] stayed on. I stayed on till he finally
[47:46] ate at me so bad it was a cancer. And I
[47:50] I had to get it off my chest. I fired
[47:53] lady that ran my business after 15
[47:57] years. Same thing. It ate at me. It Now
[47:59] I'm the one that came. I mean, that's
[48:01] disease, too. You got to you got to
[48:02] figure out how to have direct healthy
[48:05] confrontation with people.
[48:06] >> I don't want to hurt you. It's the
[48:07] people pleasing that gets What are you
[48:08] going to do? I know. Sucks. [laughter]
[48:12] >> I'm telling you, it's I I It is. It
[48:16] does. It does. It's It's a terrible
[48:20] disease being a people pleaser, you
[48:22] know.
[48:22] >> Is Is it true that uh you negotiate your
[48:26] own deals, you don't have an agent?
[48:27] >> No. Yeah, I do. And I don't have an
[48:30] agent.
[48:30] >> Uhhuh. Right.
[48:31] >> And that's because
[48:32] >> I just felt like, well, once again, I
[48:35] trusted people and they're going to give
[48:36] me what's fair market. you know what my
[48:38] value is
[48:40] >> and every contract I ever negotiated
[48:43] seemed you know I was happy with I
[48:46] wasn't I wasn't
[48:48] >> I mean you say you say like know your
[48:50] value this is like a mantra like know
[48:51] your value I know my value so you can
[48:54] enter into a negotiation and as long as
[48:56] you really know your value and and
[48:58] you're willing to like draw the line on
[49:00] that you're going to get the deal
[49:02] >> uh but
[49:03] >> knowing your value in these other
[49:05] business arrangements with relatives
[49:07] etc. Like [snorts] maybe like
[49:09] [clears throat] you know
[49:11] >> maybe you weren't maybe you weren't uh
[49:13] uh like honoring your own value in those
[49:15] in those dynamics,
[49:17] >> right?
[49:18] >> It is uh
[49:21] look I got nine dogs.
[49:24] >> You know what I tell my dogs? You know
[49:25] what I tell my dogs?
[49:27] >> No, I don't.
[49:27] >> When they fuss and fight over a bone
[49:31] which there and there are nine bones out
[49:33] there and I tell them be nice. I tell my
[49:36] dogs, be nice. Be nice. Tell Be nice.
[49:41] And And I live by that. Be nice. And
[49:44] [snorts]
[49:46] be nice people. We We do get pushed
[49:48] around. We do get pushed around and
[49:51] taken advantage of. And And when I
[49:56] that if I ever am or have been a real
[50:00] it eats me alive. Doesn't
[50:04] bother them.
[50:05] >> Mhm. eats me up. I mean,
[50:08] knowing your value. Yeah. When I found
[50:10] out when I asked the Steelers, I was MVP
[50:12] in the league and we and we'd won our
[50:16] last two Super Bowls and I was MVP in
[50:19] both of those games. And I met with the
[50:21] Rooney family and I told them I want 500
[50:25] thou I'd like to make $500,000.
[50:28] Okay. You know what they told me to my
[50:31] face, my owner?
[50:33] >> What? You're not worth $500,000
[50:35] [laughter]
[50:37] to the Steelers.
[50:40] >> And what do you what do you do with
[50:41] that?
[50:41] >> Here's what am I worth? 300.
[50:45] OKAY,
[50:47] [laughter]
[50:50] >> sounds good to me. I think there's
[50:52] there's sort of a a Jedi mind trick here
[50:55] or maybe a lesson in how to live like a
[50:59] you know a happy meaningful life in that
[51:03] you might have taken a hit and not made
[51:05] what you thought you were worth or
[51:07] wanted to make but this this sort of
[51:11] moving forward with kindness and and
[51:14] being a people person has benefited your
[51:17] life probably beyond what you would have
[51:19] imagined when you or a young person like
[51:21] I think it it pays it it gets it gets
[51:24] paid forward later in other ways because
[51:26] people want to work with you they want
[51:27] to be around you you know all of this
[51:30] sort of stuff so maybe you're taking
[51:32] like a little bit less salary earlier
[51:34] but like you're making it up later
[51:36] >> yeah it
[51:39] I would like good faith with like the
[51:41] community of people that you want to be
[51:43] >> like I know I would long for the day and
[51:46] that well that day is never going to
[51:49] happen where where I'm going to say to
[51:52] you, "Hey, Rich,
[51:55] I won't um I'll come back on your show,
[51:58] but I
[51:58] >> I know you paid your last guest."
[52:02] >> I've never paid a guest. [clears throat]
[52:03] Just don't just so the audience doesn't
[52:06] get confused here. I've ever paid
[52:08] anybody, but go ahead.
[52:09] >> I didn't know you were so sensitive.
[52:11] >> IT'S OKAY. [laughter]
[52:12] >> Trust me. Why do you think I want to
[52:13] talk about people pleasing? Like this.
[52:15] I'm having a therapy session with you.
[52:17] Like, I need to I need to know. Let me
[52:19] change that. So, I've got I'll go
[52:20] somewhere else. I I know that you signed
[52:23] the last guy to do this commercial, the
[52:26] same one. You gave him $10 million.
[52:29] All right. I'd like to be able to say,
[52:31] "I want the same $10 million." And they
[52:34] say, "We're not going to pay you 10
[52:36] million." They go get somebody else.
[52:38] Knowing I could get eight,
[52:40] >> knowing I could get eight.
[52:42] Do I want to walk away from a sure
[52:44] eight? because that's eight I'm never
[52:47] going to make up. Right. And so I'll say
[52:51] I'll take the eight. But I would like to
[52:55] know if and it's not going to happen.
[52:57] >> Uhhuh.
[52:58] >> That there was a time in my life when I
[53:00] said I'm not going to do that. I did
[53:02] turn down one commercial for $1.9
[53:04] million.
[53:04] >> This is the uh
[53:05] >> because it didn't represent my values.
[53:07] >> The erectile dysfunction situation or
[53:09] something,
[53:10] >> right? Yeah. [laughter]
[53:12] >> Yeah.
[53:12] >> Yeah.
[53:13] >> You let Jimmy take that one?
[53:15] >> No. That's a different one. That was
[53:16] That was another commercial. That was
[53:19] $650,000
[53:21] that I was offered. And I said, "I can't
[53:23] do that, but [laughter] somebody that
[53:25] will."
[53:26] >> And they said, "Who?" I said, "Jimmy
[53:28] Johnson." And I I said, "You don't go
[53:30] anywhere. I'll call Jimmy right now."
[53:32] After they told me, "You think you'll do
[53:33] it?" And I called Jimmy and I said, "I
[53:35] got you $650,000 right now. Call this
[53:39] guy. Here's his number." And I said,
[53:41] "Now that's just that's just right now.
[53:44] Now, that doesn't mean that's what
[53:45] you're going to get. You might get more.
[53:46] It's up to you. And Jimmy, you jumped
[53:49] all over it.
[53:50] >> Yeah,
[53:50] >> but I Hey, I just I just felt I would
[53:54] have a hard time.
[53:54] >> That was a Yeah, a bridge too far for
[53:56] you.
[53:57] >> Oh, that's Terry Bradaw. You know, when
[53:59] I'm home tonight Oh, no, no, no, no.
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[56:56] Your book opens with some of the
[56:58] craziest ever. I want I want to
[57:00] read [laughter] I want to read I I copy
[57:02] and pasted it here because I want to I
[57:04] want to read it. So, this is very early
[57:06] in the book
[57:08] and this is you speaking. One afternoon,
[57:10] I remember this so well. When I was
[57:12] about 7 years old, I was throwing my
[57:15] torn up old Sears and Robuck football,
[57:17] one that my dad bought on layaway
[57:19] against the side of our garage. Then I
[57:21] go running after it as it bounced away
[57:24] crazily. Suddenly, I realized a man was
[57:26] standing behind me. That was strange. I
[57:28] hadn't seen him coming. He just sort of
[57:30] appeared. He was a compact, stocky man.
[57:34] There was a small gap between his front
[57:35] teeth. He was wearing glasses, a fedora,
[57:38] and a green windbreaker with coach on
[57:41] the front. "Young Terry," he said in a
[57:44] grally voice as if it was coming from
[57:46] heaven. "I'm here to make you an offer.
[57:48] How would you like to grow up to become
[57:50] the number one draft choice in the
[57:52] National Football League, play
[57:53] professional football for 14 seasons,
[57:56] become the league's most valuable
[57:57] player, win three Super Bowls, and be
[58:00] elected to the Pro Football Hall of
[58:01] Fame. Then you would have a career in
[58:03] television during which you would win
[58:05] six Grammys, get elected to the Sports
[58:07] Broadcasting Hall of Fame, make several
[58:09] movies, have a singing career with a hit
[58:10] record, become a popular speaker, write
[58:12] bestselling books, build a few ranches,
[58:14] and race champion quarter horses, and
[58:16] eventually produce an award-winning
[58:18] bourbon. I didn't know what to say right
[58:21] then. My biggest dream was making the
[58:22] seventh grade football team. Wow, I
[58:25] finally responded suspiciously. What do
[58:27] I have to do to make all of that come
[58:30] true? This man hesitated, then took a
[58:33] deep breath and finally said, "You have
[58:35] to work with Howie Long." "I knew there
[58:38] had to be some kind of catch." "Oh," I
[58:40] hesitated, then finally asked. "For how
[58:43] long?" He closed his eyes and admitted,
[58:46] "A long time, young Terry. Decades." I
[58:50] gave it some thought. Then I said
[58:52] forcefully, "Make it four Super Bowls."
[58:55] I know I know that story might sound
[58:57] impossible, but it is as good an
[59:00] explanation as anything else for the
[59:02] incredible things that have happened in
[59:03] my life. Welcome to my book. I'm the guy
[59:06] who plays Terry Bradshaw on TV. So, did
[59:09] this happen?
[59:11] >> Yeah.
[59:12] >> Is this a dream? A fever dream? Is this
[59:14] a fantasy?
[59:15] >> You ever had You ever had something like
[59:17] that happen in your life?
[59:18] >> Uh, yeah, but not that specific or or uh
[59:23] dramatic. Yeah, the whole thing was I
[59:26] played this game
[59:29] hundreds [snorts] of times where I was
[59:34] [clears throat]
[59:34] in Iowa
[59:37] throwing the football up against the
[59:39] ceiling in my bedroom
[59:41] off of the nightlight on the street so I
[59:44] could see and catch it. And I always
[59:47] played games and I always was great at
[59:51] everything that I did. And the coach the
[59:55] coach part was basically
[1:00:00] my opportunity because I always wanted
[1:00:03] [clears throat]
[1:00:04] to meet a coach. I never had met a
[1:00:07] coach, football coach. And it was like,
[1:00:12] wow, you know, here's a choice I've get
[1:00:15] to make. The Howie thing was thrown in
[1:00:17] because
[1:00:18] >> little creative license, but you're
[1:00:20] saying
[1:00:20] >> that's my buddy. So, yeah, it's a dream.
[1:00:22] >> You had a dream.
[1:00:23] >> It's a dream I'm having. And it was a
[1:00:25] recurring dream. I asked my wife Tammy,
[1:00:28] "Honey, you ever dreamed about your
[1:00:29] falling and you like, oh, oh, you ever
[1:00:32] had that dream where you're falling?"
[1:00:34] Yeah. I had this dream so many times.
[1:00:36] >> A recurring dream.
[1:00:37] >> Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I picked up. You
[1:00:39] ever pick up on a dream? Where does that
[1:00:41] come from? How does that happen? You
[1:00:43] know, is that is that strange to you
[1:00:45] that you pick up on a dream? Oh, you
[1:00:47] laughed at Okay, I'll catch you tomorrow
[1:00:48] night when I go to sleep. It's crazy
[1:00:51] stuff, you know.
[1:00:52] >> So, what do you what do you make of
[1:00:53] this? I know you're a man of faith.
[1:00:55] Like, how do you square this recurring
[1:00:57] dream with the reality that became your
[1:01:00] life? Well, before I got married,
[1:01:04] I didn't have anybody to share
[1:01:07] this with,
[1:01:09] okay? I just had myself. I didn't share
[1:01:12] it with my brothers or my parents or
[1:01:14] anybody else. But when I got married,
[1:01:18] I would, my wife and I are so close that
[1:01:21] we talk about stuff like this. And when
[1:01:24] she'll say, "Boy, I had the craziest
[1:01:25] dream last night." Da da da da da da da.
[1:01:28] You're kidding me. Well, I did this and
[1:01:31] and we try to figure out where these
[1:01:33] dreams are going and where they're
[1:01:35] coming from. Her son had passed away and
[1:01:37] and he's talking to her. Um and signs a
[1:01:42] a um all of a sudden a butterfly, she's
[1:01:45] in the kitchen and all of a sudden a
[1:01:47] butterfly flew by her window, you know.
[1:01:50] It's like Cody had just come to say hi,
[1:01:53] mom. you know, and I mean that stuff is
[1:01:57] I mean that gives me chill bumps, you
[1:01:59] know, I think about stuff like that. So
[1:02:01] I believe, [clears throat] you know, as
[1:02:03] a I'm a Christian, so I I can I'm not
[1:02:05] ashamed to say Christian. You say man of
[1:02:07] faith, that's fine. You don't want to I
[1:02:09] get it. Uh but I'm you know in the world
[1:02:13] we live in we um [clears throat]
[1:02:17] we Christians, people of faith as you
[1:02:19] say um I'm I'm a firm believer that that
[1:02:24] as a Christian I my whole the Holy
[1:02:26] Spirit lives in me and things happen in
[1:02:31] my life for a reason and and thoughts
[1:02:35] come to my head which are
[1:02:38] beyond explanation.
[1:02:40] and my wife and I said, "Babe, I'm
[1:02:43] having this and we'll talk about it."
[1:02:46] So, I have someone now I can talk about
[1:02:48] it. So, that so I just believe that I'm
[1:02:51] living in I'm living this short life
[1:02:54] >> and I'm enjoying it and [clears throat]
[1:02:57] the Bible says to be still and listen.
[1:03:00] And if we ever if we ever in this world
[1:03:02] will take time to stop in our daily
[1:03:06] activities and just give some pause and
[1:03:09] just reflect just sit there quietly.
[1:03:12] It's amazing. It's amazing the things
[1:03:15] that'll come in your head. It's amazing
[1:03:17] you to try that sometime. And I en I
[1:03:21] enjoy that. It's a it's a powerful
[1:03:25] feeling. And so the coach thing was just
[1:03:28] this is where I'm headed. This is where
[1:03:31] I'm going. I'm going to have that guy
[1:03:32] one of these days and I'm going to have
[1:03:34] the big guy, you know, my best friend at
[1:03:37] Fox how long. I'm going to have that big
[1:03:39] guy there one of these day. You know,
[1:03:40] that's kind of my shot at shot at him.
[1:03:43] Um, all of this is going to come true. I
[1:03:46] never listen rich. I never as a child
[1:03:48] thought I wasn't going to be great. I
[1:03:50] used to sit in class and say to myself,
[1:03:53] say to myself, looking out a window and
[1:03:55] say to myself, "God, one of these days
[1:03:57] I'm going to be great."
[1:03:58] >> Where does that come from?
[1:04:00] >> I have no idea.
[1:04:02] Per perhaps that's God telling me,
[1:04:04] "You're going to be great. I'm going to
[1:04:05] use you." And
[1:04:06] >> it wasn't your parents raising you to
[1:04:08] believe that about yourself necessarily.
[1:04:10] >> No. No. No. Not at all. [snorts]
[1:04:13] >> You know what's crazy about this? Uh,
[1:04:16] are you getting
[1:04:17] >> in addition to the fact that [laughter]
[1:04:18] first of all that was beautiful. Thank
[1:04:20] you. Like I I loved how you explained
[1:04:22] that. Um,
[1:04:25] >> in addition to just the the general
[1:04:28] craziness of the story,
[1:04:31] >> you found
[1:04:33] here. Well, here it kind of it's
[1:04:35] thematically consistent. Bear with me.
[1:04:38] Uh, last week when I was in I told you I
[1:04:40] was in New York. Uh, I had the
[1:04:41] opportunity to do a podcast with Colin
[1:04:43] Kaepernick.
[1:04:44] >> Yeah. and he's got this book coming out.
[1:04:46] >> Yeah.
[1:04:46] >> And in his book,
[1:04:48] >> he tells a similar story about
[1:04:51] >> when he was in I think he was in fourth
[1:04:53] grade. Yeah. And the the class was doing
[1:04:56] like a time capsule like write write a
[1:04:58] write a thing to your future self and
[1:05:00] we'll uncover this later.
[1:05:02] >> And he wrote like I am going to be like
[1:05:05] he said I'm going to be this height. I'm
[1:05:08] going to be this weight. I'm gonna be a
[1:05:10] football quarterback and I'm gonna play
[1:05:12] for the I'm gonna I'm gonna play for the
[1:05:14] s the 49ers. Like it was it was it was
[1:05:17] wild. Like a full premonition, but the
[1:05:20] same
[1:05:21] >> mindset like this is where I'm headed. A
[1:05:23] conviction in his own potential
[1:05:25] greatness
[1:05:26] >> and amazing.
[1:05:27] >> Um
[1:05:28] >> in a very similar way and these books
[1:05:29] are like coming out around the same
[1:05:31] time.
[1:05:31] >> Yeah. Wow. quarterbacks talking about
[1:05:34] their early childhood premonitions of
[1:05:36] greatness with an insane degree of
[1:05:39] specificity.
[1:05:40] >> There's kind of a common denominator
[1:05:43] here, you know,
[1:05:44] >> which which kind of adds a little bit
[1:05:46] more pixie dust on the mystical uh
[1:05:48] nature of this. The the fact that that
[1:05:50] both of you guys are talking about this
[1:05:52] >> and he became great for another reason
[1:05:55] too
[1:05:56] >> other than just football which he was
[1:05:58] amazing at.
[1:05:59] >> I mean,
[1:05:59] >> and he became great when he stood up for
[1:06:01] his values. Yeah.
[1:06:02] >> You know, you
[1:06:04] >> are you like at liberty to talk about
[1:06:05] that at all or share your opinions on
[1:06:07] that? Do you feel constrained by the
[1:06:09] NFL?
[1:06:10] >> Well, you could you could
[1:06:13] >> I I can answer your question real
[1:06:14] simple. You do what you want to on that
[1:06:16] sideline. If you don't want to stand for
[1:06:17] the uh national anthem, that's your
[1:06:20] business. That's not my business. I'm
[1:06:22] standing
[1:06:23] because I choose to honor our flag and
[1:06:26] our anthem. If you don't want,
[1:06:30] do what you want to do. do what makes
[1:06:31] you comfortable. You're, you know,
[1:06:34] you're your own man, your own woman. You
[1:06:35] do what you, you know, I I'm not one
[1:06:38] that believes in I'm I'm not going to
[1:06:39] [clears throat] judge you. That's not my
[1:06:42] job in this life is not to judge you,
[1:06:44] Rich. I'm not going to judge you. I'm
[1:06:47] not If you're bad and mean and hateful
[1:06:49] to me, I'm not going to judge you. I'm
[1:06:51] not going to do it. Uh, if you don't
[1:06:53] want to stand for the national anthe,
[1:06:54] I'm not going to judge you. I'm not
[1:06:57] going to say you should stand up. I'm
[1:06:58] not going to I'm not going to voice and
[1:07:00] I'm standing. I'm standing. Um, I'm
[1:07:04] going to be nice to my parents. I'm
[1:07:06] going to yes and no. Yes, sir. No,
[1:07:08] ma'am. I'm going to do all of that. I'm
[1:07:10] going to be nice. I'm going to say thank
[1:07:12] you when people do things nice to me.
[1:07:14] I'm going to do all I'm going to be nice
[1:07:16] to women. If you're not nice to women
[1:07:18] and if you and if you put your hands on
[1:07:20] a woman and you hurt a woman, you beat
[1:07:22] her up. As far as I'm concerned, you'll
[1:07:24] never play another down in the National
[1:07:26] Football League. That's a no no in my
[1:07:28] book. Don't you ever do that. All right.
[1:07:30] I I will judge you. I will judge you. I
[1:07:33] do have an opinion about that. I have a
[1:07:35] lot of opinions. Um but I'm not going to
[1:07:37] judge it. Just
[1:07:40] And if you ask me, well, would you d I
[1:07:44] just told you my answer. I'm Colin can
[1:07:46] do what Colin feels comfortable doing
[1:07:49] and I respect him for it because it's
[1:07:51] his decision. It's not my decision. Now,
[1:07:54] if you're out there and you're listening
[1:07:56] to this podcast and you go, "Brat, you
[1:07:58] ought to." You know what?
[1:08:01] Fine. You judge me. You want to judge.
[1:08:02] Go ahead and judge me. I don't care.
[1:08:04] That's I judge you accordingly. You're
[1:08:08] nice to me. Me and you are friends.
[1:08:10] you're not nice to them and they'll come
[1:08:13] tell me what a jerk you are and I'm
[1:08:15] going to say no he's a nice guy who was
[1:08:17] nice to me so I'm going to it's me and
[1:08:19] you we're oneonone here and that's our
[1:08:21] relationship and that's the way it's
[1:08:22] going to be and I'm not judging based on
[1:08:24] what other people say opinions or
[1:08:26] whatever that is not going to affect me
[1:08:28] whatsoever.
[1:08:30] So I think I saw in some interview with
[1:08:32] you that you that you did say something
[1:08:34] along the lines I don't want to put
[1:08:36] words in your mouth something along the
[1:08:37] lines of like you know it is it's a
[1:08:39] patriotic act to you know speak freely
[1:08:41] about your opinion on you know the state
[1:08:45] of the American project. um looking back
[1:08:48] now like 10 years later uh and the way
[1:08:51] that that that you know he was kind of
[1:08:53] treated by the owners in the NFL etc and
[1:08:55] and the uproar that that caused like you
[1:08:58] know I just feel like this is something
[1:08:59] that history won't smile upon favorably
[1:09:02] and [snorts]
[1:09:03] >> um I think that
[1:09:04] >> listen
[1:09:06] >> go ahead you can I don't want to get
[1:09:08] into a political
[1:09:09] >> discussion no no I look uh your taste
[1:09:12] your taste buds change every 10 years
[1:09:15] [laughter]
[1:09:16] >> your opinion about
[1:09:17] You either don't have one, but you do.
[1:09:20] Everybody has an opinion. I choose today
[1:09:22] as I'm sitting here talking to you, let
[1:09:25] him do what he wants to do. That's none
[1:09:27] of my concern, none of my business. Do I
[1:09:30] feel it's unpatriotic not to stand for?
[1:09:33] Yeah, but that's that's me. I'm
[1:09:36] standing. I just told you I'm standing.
[1:09:38] I'm singing it, too. I'm putting my hand
[1:09:40] over my heart. I'm going to be still.
[1:09:42] I'm not going to rock back and forth.
[1:09:44] >> Colin can do what Colin wants to do.
[1:09:46] I've already explained myself on that.
[1:09:48] Um, you look at you look at people
[1:09:52] people have to understand when you're in
[1:09:53] a pl when you're in a position of power
[1:09:56] or if you have a voice in something um
[1:09:59] you better be careful how you say it
[1:10:02] because you are going to ha you're going
[1:10:04] to have an impact on people's lives.
[1:10:07] It's going to happen. It can you can
[1:10:09] talk about President Trump. You can talk
[1:10:12] about President Bush, Obama. You can
[1:10:14] talk about anybody in a in a position of
[1:10:17] power or opinions. Have opinions. You're
[1:10:20] going to have a an impression. I am a
[1:10:23] firm believer in faith. I'm a firm
[1:10:27] believer in high morals. I'm a firm
[1:10:30] believer in being kind and gentle with
[1:10:33] women. All right? I'm a firm believer
[1:10:37] and my relationship is with with you.
[1:10:40] It's me and you and it's nobody else. I
[1:10:42] don't care about anybody else. And they
[1:10:44] say, "Well, so and so, okay, he's nice
[1:10:46] to me." Well, so and so, you nice to me?
[1:10:49] You got to be kidding. Nice to me.
[1:10:51] That's that's where I that's where my
[1:10:53] judgment will come in. But there's so
[1:10:57] many things in in this world that's
[1:10:59] happening in America right now that I'm
[1:11:02] just like, "Oh my god, [clears throat]
[1:11:04] are you kidding me? Can Can we not get
[1:11:08] along? The left and the right and the
[1:11:10] left's got a better idea." And the
[1:11:12] right, they know it's a good idea, but
[1:11:14] they're not going to go along with
[1:11:16] because that's not the party. And then
[1:11:18] the right's got something, but the
[1:11:19] left's not going to admit that's a good
[1:11:20] idea because they might stay in power,
[1:11:22] people will vote for. It's crazy what's
[1:11:25] going on. It's crazy. And nobody has the
[1:11:28] balls to stand up for what's right. What
[1:11:31] is right for people
[1:11:33] >> people human beings out there. And I
[1:11:37] just And the morals I just go.
[1:11:40] >> Yeah. It's crazy. It's it's not only is
[1:11:42] it crazy, it's getting crazier.
[1:11:45] there's all these, you know,
[1:11:47] algorithmically driven, uh, you know,
[1:11:50] incentive based,
[1:11:53] >> um, aspects to how we interface with
[1:11:56] information and entertainment that
[1:11:59] ultimately are driving us away from each
[1:12:01] other in a really unhealthy way, then I
[1:12:04] think we should all be deeply concerned
[1:12:05] about that. Uh, you know, I believe in
[1:12:07] America and this American project. I
[1:12:09] remain optimistic, but you know, we have
[1:12:11] an illness right now that we have to
[1:12:13] figure out how to cure. And it's a ch
[1:12:15] it's a challenge, you know, and this is
[1:12:17] not a partisan thing. It's just like
[1:12:19] we're in this together.
[1:12:20] >> I can't believe that we live in a world
[1:12:24] where we have a leader that insults
[1:12:28] people.
[1:12:30] [snorts] God, I have a hard time with
[1:12:31] that. Insults women. God, I have a hard
[1:12:35] time with I and it just
[1:12:38] >> and I'm so afraid to say it. Giving
[1:12:40] >> other people permission to behave the
[1:12:43] same. Like there's a trickle down impact
[1:12:45] to being in
[1:12:47] >> a position of leadership and
[1:12:48] demonstrating that lack of character
[1:12:51] that denigrates the quality of our
[1:12:54] character as a community.
[1:12:56] >> Yeah, it it is um
[1:12:59] it makes me shake my head. it it uh and
[1:13:03] I'm I'm in a position, as a matter of
[1:13:06] fact, I've never said any of this before
[1:13:08] because you know why? Because if you
[1:13:11] pick a side, you lose the other side.
[1:13:13] There are 350 million Americans and if
[1:13:16] you split them down the middle, that's
[1:13:18] 175 million,
[1:13:21] >> right?
[1:13:22] >> Yeah. If I don't want to lose 175.
[1:13:24] >> Of course not. Of course not. But but
[1:13:26] you're somebody like listen in reading
[1:13:28] your book and everything I know about
[1:13:29] you like integrity is really important
[1:13:31] to you.
[1:13:32] >> Oh, it's huge.
[1:13:32] >> And so, you know, it doesn't have to be
[1:13:35] a political or a partisan issue to just
[1:13:37] speak about why you think integrity
[1:13:40] >> and having like an ethical center is
[1:13:43] important character attribute. Like why
[1:13:44] do we even have to like sell this?
[1:13:46] >> Why are we even talking about it? I
[1:13:48] don't know. It ought to be ingrained in
[1:13:50] a given in in the American culture that
[1:13:53] >> you treat people with respect. Respect.
[1:13:55] Oh, you can dis disagree all you want
[1:13:57] to, but be show respect. And we've we've
[1:14:01] lost that. And we all know when we do
[1:14:05] business with certain people that we're
[1:14:07] going to walk away going, golly, you
[1:14:10] know, I'm not ever doing business with
[1:14:12] that person again. I used to sell cars.
[1:14:14] >> Mhm.
[1:14:15] >> And I used car. That's how you got your
[1:14:17] first ranch, right? Cuz you weren't like
[1:14:19] What was your salary when you were in
[1:14:21] those early days?
[1:14:22] >> $25,000.
[1:14:23] >> Yeah. So, you you had to hustle in the
[1:14:25] offseason.
[1:14:26] >> Yeah. I went back after my rookie year
[1:14:28] and took one class to graduate. I was so
[1:14:31] mad I didn't graduate with my class. And
[1:14:33] I went to my dean and said, "You've been
[1:14:36] sending me all over the state and
[1:14:38] neighboring states to recruit students."
[1:14:41] So, I had to reduce my load, my class
[1:14:44] load. I needed one more class to
[1:14:47] graduate with my class. And he said,
[1:14:50] "Boy, Terry, that's out of my control. I
[1:14:53] man, I'd like to I'd like." Basically,
[1:14:56] I'm asking him to give him credit. Give
[1:14:58] me I don't I don't want to Hey, give me
[1:15:00] a seat. Just give me something. Yeah.
[1:15:02] And he said, "You're going to have to go
[1:15:04] talk to Dr. Taylor, president,
[1:15:07] >> and and talk to him about that." So, I
[1:15:09] did. And so, I went to Dr. Taylor's
[1:15:11] office and I went in [laughter]
[1:15:14] and he's a huge fan of mine. I'm playing
[1:15:16] for Pittsburgh, bringing a lot of
[1:15:18] notoriety to the school. I'm thinking,
[1:15:20] "Boy, this is going to be great. I got
[1:15:22] Dr. Taylor. I'm going to get that
[1:15:24] three-hour credit I need, you know." So,
[1:15:27] I go and see Dr. Taylor. He goes, "Boy,
[1:15:30] well, you've been great for I mean, here
[1:15:31] you know the story. You this and that."
[1:15:33] And I mean, and I know where this is
[1:15:35] going. And he says, "You," he go, "you
[1:15:38] you wouldn't want me to give you credit
[1:15:40] for a class you didn't take. That's not
[1:15:43] you." And I felt bad. I felt bad trying
[1:15:46] to get out of class, you know, try to
[1:15:49] get a free grade. But my ass is
[1:15:52] traveling around recruiting students.
[1:15:55] They were using me. There was no name,
[1:15:58] image, and like nil.
[1:16:00] >> Yeah.
[1:16:00] >> Back then. And so I had to go back. I
[1:16:03] went to Pittsburgh for my rookie year.
[1:16:05] And I had to go back to school when I
[1:16:07] got back. Um, and I went to uh we were
[1:16:11] quarter semester, so I had to go in the
[1:16:14] spring and take one class to graduate.
[1:16:18] So when I graduated, I got even I didn't
[1:16:20] walk across the stage. I STAYED HOME
[1:16:23] selling used cars,
[1:16:25] >> used cars, trucks, you name it. Yeah, it
[1:16:28] was fun. I've also heard you say that
[1:16:30] that people think of you as this alpha,
[1:16:34] like this alpha male, and your response
[1:16:37] to that is like, I don't think that I'm
[1:16:39] that alpha. Like, I'm for the betterment
[1:16:41] of other people.
[1:16:42] >> Yeah, I'm that alpha.
[1:16:44] >> But here's the thing, Terry. There's a
[1:16:46] lot of young men who are in positions
[1:16:50] where they're looking around, they don't
[1:16:52] see a lot of opportunity. we're having
[1:16:54] this loneliness epidemic
[1:16:56] and and there's a certain despair that
[1:16:59] makes them vulnerable to less savory
[1:17:02] influences out there about like what it
[1:17:04] means to be a man. And I think you are
[1:17:06] an alpha in the healthiest sense. like
[1:17:08] you're modeling a certain kind of
[1:17:11] masculinity as a spokesperson
[1:17:15] and the voice of this sport that is
[1:17:18] basically our national pastime and is,
[1:17:21] you know, kind of really just this
[1:17:23] important
[1:17:25] >> cultural juggernaut and so people look
[1:17:27] to you for guidance and leadership. We
[1:17:30] talked about leadership, you know, what
[1:17:32] is healthy masculinity in your opinion?
[1:17:35] I think of alpha. Um, am I alpha at my
[1:17:39] ranch? Yeah, I am. [clears throat]
[1:17:43] Um, it's my ranch. It's our ranch. Um,
[1:17:49] if you mean am I the top dog? Yes, I am.
[1:17:52] I know that. [snorts]
[1:17:54] Um,
[1:17:57] but but being a good alpha,
[1:18:01] I I [clears throat] delegate authority
[1:18:04] and I everybody do what they're
[1:18:07] qualified to do. Um, and very seldom do
[1:18:11] I interfere. I may ask questions, but
[1:18:13] very seldom do I interfere. Um, I like
[1:18:16] that. I like for people to do what
[1:18:18] they're qualified to do without any
[1:18:19] interference and a little direction or
[1:18:22] if I or if they need an answer, they'll
[1:18:24] come to me and I'll give them an answer.
[1:18:26] We [gasps and snorts] in the horse
[1:18:27] fitness, we have mayors that are running
[1:18:29] together. There's always an alpha mayor
[1:18:31] because she's the one that picks on
[1:18:32] everything and gets everything she
[1:18:34] wants. So, we have to take her out of
[1:18:35] the herd, put her over here with another
[1:18:38] alpha male, female, so they can fight
[1:18:40] one fight one another and leave the
[1:18:42] leave all the innocent alone. So I don't
[1:18:46] I don't feel as as though
[1:18:50] as as an alpha guy, a leader of a leader
[1:18:53] of the pack
[1:18:56] situationally speaking. Yeah. But for
[1:18:59] the most part,
[1:19:01] I I pretty much
[1:19:04] am not the [clears throat] guy that
[1:19:06] jumps out front. I'm Look, I did that my
[1:19:10] whole life playing football. I'm real
[1:19:13] comfortable listening to what now you
[1:19:15] may give a an order or d something we're
[1:19:18] going to do and I may not
[1:19:21] [clears throat] agree with it. I'll say
[1:19:22] I don't you know I'll say so I'm not
[1:19:25] going to be stupid but uh at the same
[1:19:28] time I'm not leading the pack either.
[1:19:30] And you know what? Let me tell you
[1:19:31] something. I don't want to lead the
[1:19:33] pack. I like I like sitting back. You
[1:19:36] know I'm comfortable sitting back. No,
[1:19:39] you get nothing.
[1:19:40] >> You get to you get to throw the zingers
[1:19:41] in.
[1:19:42] >> That's my job. But then you're talking
[1:19:45] about the young people today that are
[1:19:47] lost.
[1:19:48] They're they're lost. They they they
[1:19:51] maybe [clears throat]
[1:19:52] maybe they're confused because it's all
[1:19:55] about money. I got to make money. I got
[1:19:58] to make money. I got to make more money.
[1:20:01] And they do. You ever hear the word I
[1:20:04] got to find my happiness. Got to find my
[1:20:05] happiness. Happiness. Happiness.
[1:20:08] No, because it's all it's you know in
[1:20:10] this in this country it's it's we got to
[1:20:12] have money
[1:20:14] assumption that [clears throat] money is
[1:20:16] equated with happiness or that
[1:20:18] >> is it how come we have billionaires you
[1:20:21] can get it right so or just as a status
[1:20:25] flex the only way to feel good about
[1:20:27] myself or to compare to my peers is if I
[1:20:30] you know rise up the ranks
[1:20:32] >> your self-esteem comes from your money
[1:20:34] and your position take away all of that
[1:20:37] and you're basically a nobody. You're
[1:20:40] struggling, you know. What about me?
[1:20:42] What about me? I'm the I'm I You're
[1:20:44] struggling. Me, I'm I'm I'm a happy guy,
[1:20:49] >> you know. And and you've had you've you
[1:20:51] you've you've endured these identity
[1:20:53] crises in your life. You had it when you
[1:20:56] bunch of them.
[1:20:57] >> Yeah. So, [sighs]
[1:20:59] >> this is part of the hero's journey of,
[1:21:02] you know, living a long life.
[1:21:04] >> That's exactly. You know why? because
[1:21:06] I've crossed I've I've traveled many a
[1:21:08] road and I've gotten to a lot of forks
[1:21:11] and I've had to make decisions and when
[1:21:13] I've gotten there and you said this
[1:21:15] earlier in an interview and you had a
[1:21:17] lot of failures cuz you picked the wrong
[1:21:19] fork. You know, you went to the right
[1:21:21] when you should have gone to the left.
[1:21:22] So, I've got all of this travel and all
[1:21:26] of these miles on my body and all of
[1:21:28] these decisions,
[1:21:31] thousands, hundreds of thou millions of
[1:21:33] decisions I've made in my life and good
[1:21:36] and bad. And [clears throat]
[1:21:37] I got all that. And here I'm sitting at
[1:21:40] this table, 78 years of age with three
[1:21:42] girls and grandkids and a wife,
[1:21:45] beautiful wife. And I'm still, you know,
[1:21:49] still making decisions, still trying to
[1:21:52] figure out how much longer am I going to
[1:21:53] be doing the television, still wondering
[1:21:56] will I still be able to give speeches,
[1:21:58] still wondering, can I promote this
[1:21:59] book? Still wondering, will they come
[1:22:01] see me at Branson? I mean, it's
[1:22:03] >> Mhm.
[1:22:04] >> you know, [clears throat and laughter]
[1:22:05] it's still there.
[1:22:07] >> Yeah. You can handle it.
[1:22:08] >> You don't transcend it, but you have
[1:22:11] enough experience to know how to
[1:22:13] navigate it. Yeah. And
[1:22:14] >> so with respect to the part of my
[1:22:16] question about the message to
[1:22:18] >> young people,
[1:22:19] >> the younger male or young people in
[1:22:21] general who are confused about the world
[1:22:23] and you know maybe not seeing
[1:22:25] opportunity for themselves like what is
[1:22:27] it that you want them to understand
[1:22:29] about what you've learned along your
[1:22:31] path?
[1:22:31] >> Well, first of all, you got me rubbing
[1:22:33] my head over here, Rich.
[1:22:34] >> This is my job.
[1:22:35] >> I know. But first of all,
[1:22:38] you first of all, you got to you got to
[1:22:42] sit down and have a talk with yourself
[1:22:43] and ask yourself, what is it? You know,
[1:22:47] where what is my gift? Everybody's got a
[1:22:50] gift. What's my gift? What is my purpose
[1:22:52] in this life? What is it that I love
[1:22:57] doing? All right. Now,
[1:23:01] I got to I got to take a step. I got a
[1:23:03] leap of faith and I got to go after it.
[1:23:06] And that doesn't mean look you think you
[1:23:09] think Sam Walmart Sam Walden [snorts]
[1:23:12] had that one little store and he said
[1:23:15] man if I had two stores I could buy my
[1:23:18] groceries cheaper and I would could sell
[1:23:22] twice as many groceries and I'd make a
[1:23:25] little bit more money and I could pass a
[1:23:27] little bit of a savings on the customer
[1:23:29] and they'll like me and they'll just
[1:23:31] keep coming here and they won't go
[1:23:33] there. Then he says, "Golly, if I had 10
[1:23:35] stores, then I could do a radio
[1:23:37] commercial because then I'd have the
[1:23:39] support out there and I could spend my
[1:23:41] money for 10." Oh, wait a minute. What
[1:23:44] if I have a hundred stores and what if I
[1:23:46] call them Walmart? There you Well, now
[1:23:51] now now I got a 100 stores and I'm
[1:23:54] buying all this produce and all these
[1:23:56] all these supplies that I'm going to
[1:23:58] sell and I'm getting them even cheaper
[1:24:00] and I'm selling them out to a hundred
[1:24:02] stores and so I'm get I'm getting in all
[1:24:05] these people and I can pass on the
[1:24:07] savings to them and I'm still making
[1:24:09] more money than I ever dreamed. What if
[1:24:11] I have a thousand? And here we go. But
[1:24:15] it started with one thought. What if I
[1:24:18] had two stores? All right. So, what if I
[1:24:20] have what if I'm sitting out there? I
[1:24:23] just graduated. Let's forget college
[1:24:25] because I don't think college is meant
[1:24:27] for everybody. Certainly. Let's say
[1:24:29] you're sitting out there and you got to
[1:24:31] ask yourself, you know, am I good with
[1:24:33] my hands? Am I good sewing? Am I good
[1:24:35] playing a guitar? Am I am I am I good in
[1:24:38] the community? Would I be a good
[1:24:40] community servant? Um would I be a good
[1:24:43] salesperson? Uh where could I get a job
[1:24:45] selling? What if I Oh, I got a good
[1:24:47] voice. Maybe I could do radio, you know?
[1:24:49] So, how do I get How do I get How do I
[1:24:52] make a plan, but you got to find out
[1:24:54] what it is you want to do? What what you
[1:24:56] can't go to bed at night and not and not
[1:24:59] look forward to getting up the next day
[1:25:01] because there's something exciting out
[1:25:03] there waiting for you.
[1:25:04] >> And it's and don't put a dollar sign on
[1:25:07] it. Put your heart sign on it and say,
[1:25:10] "Okay, this is going to make me happy. I
[1:25:12] you know, that's what that's what you
[1:25:14] want out of life." But when you get to
[1:25:16] the end of the day is, are you happy
[1:25:18] with yourself? Are you happy? You know,
[1:25:21] how do you feel? I mean I mean it to me
[1:25:24] that's a pretty simple thing to do. I
[1:25:26] can honestly tell you
[1:25:27] >> I love going my wife and I, we love
[1:25:30] going to bed. We'll go to bed at 5:30 in
[1:25:31] the afternoon and get in bed and we'll
[1:25:33] go, "This is great. Oh man, THIS FEELS
[1:25:36] GOOD." AND GET all the dogs in bed. We
[1:25:37] prop ourselves up. We put on a show we
[1:25:40] want to binge watch it or something and
[1:25:43] we just love it. And we're both like,
[1:25:45] you know, what are we going to do
[1:25:46] tomorrow? What's a And we can't wait to
[1:25:48] get up the next day. And we get off. We
[1:25:50] get off in our journey and and we go
[1:25:52] together. Let's go here. Let's go there.
[1:25:54] Let's go do this. Go do that.
[1:25:57] And it's it's man, it's just you you got
[1:26:00] to have a plan. You you got to sit down
[1:26:02] and have a plan. But it has to be
[1:26:04] realistic,
[1:26:05] you know? You have to you know your
[1:26:07] value. You know, you know your talents.
[1:26:11] All right. and and so so march on, you
[1:26:16] know, take the bull by the horn, as they
[1:26:18] say, or whatever. But, you know, you're
[1:26:20] not going to start at the top no matter
[1:26:22] where you go. You're going to start at
[1:26:23] the bottom, which is good. I've got this
[1:26:26] friend, Steven Presfield. He's an
[1:26:28] author, uh, and he wrote this remarkable
[1:26:31] book called The War of Art. It's kind of
[1:26:33] about creativity and how to be a
[1:26:35] professional and overcome
[1:26:36] procrastination, etc. But he has this
[1:26:38] great saying which is life is short but
[1:26:40] it's also long.
[1:26:42] Meaning you have to get up out of bed
[1:26:45] and get after it. No one owes you
[1:26:46] anything and there is a sense of urgency
[1:26:50] in in having a plan about your life and
[1:26:52] executing it while also understanding
[1:26:54] that life is long and you don't have to
[1:26:56] build your empire in a day. It's about
[1:26:59] what can you do today that's going to
[1:27:01] move the ball forward. to your point of
[1:27:03] the first store, you know, he's not he's
[1:27:05] not he's not executing on building his
[1:27:08] empire, Sam Walton, you know, before he,
[1:27:10] you know, builds that first store and
[1:27:12] it's working properly, right? And I
[1:27:13] think people
[1:27:15] >> get really caught up comparing
[1:27:17] themselves to successful people and
[1:27:19] thinking that it happened rapidly. And
[1:27:22] in your book, it's just one of a zillion
[1:27:23] examples of showing like no, it didn't.
[1:27:25] Like this is just pothole and messy and
[1:27:29] you know, like all of it, right? like
[1:27:30] this path to greatness that we imagine
[1:27:32] in other people because we're projecting
[1:27:34] our own aspirations or jealousy or envy
[1:27:38] or entitlement on, you know, people who
[1:27:41] are avatars like yourself who represent
[1:27:43] a certain um definition of what it means
[1:27:46] to be successful. And it just doesn't
[1:27:48] work that way.
[1:27:49] >> Yeah. You look at me and you see the end
[1:27:50] result.
[1:27:51] >> Yeah. You see the end result. And you
[1:27:53] also see a guy who's just like brimming
[1:27:55] with enthusiasm and you're talking about
[1:27:56] how excited you are to go to bed at 5:30
[1:27:58] and wake up the next day. And what gets
[1:28:00] lost in in that as powerful and as
[1:28:03] motivating as that little speech is that
[1:28:05] you just gave is the fact that you also
[1:28:08] were diagnosed with clinical depression
[1:28:10] and you mentioned the anxiety before and
[1:28:13] like [laughter] your mental health
[1:28:14] journey you know isn't like oh I just
[1:28:17] automatically wake up out of bed and
[1:28:18] feel this way every single day. So talk
[1:28:20] a little bit about that part of your
[1:28:24] life journey. This whole
[1:28:25] >> I would want everybody I I will talk
[1:28:27] about that but I would I would want
[1:28:29] everybody to know you're not looking Now
[1:28:31] you look at me now and you see what all
[1:28:33] I've accomplished and you go wow he's
[1:28:36] really blessed. I really worked
[1:28:39] I worked really hard years upon years
[1:28:44] day in and day out with a football in my
[1:28:47] hand to perfect throwing it. also with a
[1:28:50] microphone in your hand. Like you tell
[1:28:51] all these stories about you were a
[1:28:53] disaster when you started.
[1:28:56] >> They exiled you to they literally exiled
[1:28:58] you to Siberia like Alaska to cover the
[1:29:00] Idida cuz they're like this guy can't do
[1:29:03] football.
[1:29:04] >> Like oh I thought it was a compliment
[1:29:06] they sent me up there.
[1:29:07] >> Yeah. So it's not it's not like you're
[1:29:10] very gifted at what you do and you
[1:29:11] certainly had a talent but you were
[1:29:13] getting in your own way and talking like
[1:29:14] you had a lot that you needed to learn
[1:29:16] and you needed like a dose of humility
[1:29:18] and to get rightsized but you stayed in
[1:29:20] it
[1:29:21] >> even though you wanted to quit.
[1:29:22] >> Yeah. But I went to the IDA rod for CBS.
[1:29:24] I thought that was they were that was
[1:29:26] like I've been chosen until I got there
[1:29:29] and realized I got here because nobody
[1:29:30] wanted this job. [laughter]
[1:29:32] I go down there and they say well go
[1:29:34] interview all those dog mushers. And so
[1:29:36] I went down the road. Hey, how you
[1:29:37] doing? You're from Sweden. Hey, what?
[1:29:40] Where you from? You Norway? Oh, that's
[1:29:41] good. Russia. Hey, how you doing? And
[1:29:43] I'm interviewing all the I get this guy
[1:29:45] from China.
[1:29:47] And so I said, [laughter] "Hey, how you
[1:29:48] doing?" D. And he looked at me and so
[1:29:53] tell me uh tell me about your dogs. How
[1:29:55] many you got? Uh what kind of shape are
[1:29:58] they?
[1:29:59] Then I realized he has he he doesn't
[1:30:02] understand one thing I'm saying. So I
[1:30:05] went John Wayne [laughter] AND HE GO
[1:30:08] JOHN WAYNE and I went oh my god it's
[1:30:12] priceless. It was great. But yeah I
[1:30:15] thought I was being rewarded but no no
[1:30:17] get him out of here. You're right. But
[1:30:19] it was look it
[1:30:22] it takes a long time to develop your
[1:30:26] skills. I was I didn't start in junior
[1:30:29] high. I didn't just start in city league
[1:30:33] football. I didn't start uh in high
[1:30:37] school, but one year when everybody had
[1:30:39] graduated, I went to Louisiana Tech. I
[1:30:42] sat on the bench two years behind Phil
[1:30:44] Robertson, the Duck Dynasty guy.
[1:30:46] >> Mhm.
[1:30:47] >> That's crazy. You were you were backup
[1:30:49] QB to the guy who ends up on Duck
[1:30:51] Dynasty. So I I was not one of those
[1:30:54] great great great great
[1:30:58] even when you were you still like okay
[1:31:00] then you become like okay well this
[1:31:02] guy's the number one college football
[1:31:04] quarterback in the nation first first
[1:31:07] pick in the NFL draft and then you have
[1:31:10] to shoulder the expectations of that and
[1:31:13] you're not living up to it so much so
[1:31:15] that Howard Coell calls you like the
[1:31:17] number one flop in like the NFL.
[1:31:19] >> That was great. Yeah. And I couldn't
[1:31:21] wait to meet him. You know
[1:31:23] >> what was that conversation like?
[1:31:24] >> It was terrible. It was live on
[1:31:27] television. Monday Night Football in
[1:31:29] Pittsburgh my rookie year and he walked
[1:31:31] out. The number one floppy in the NFL,
[1:31:33] Terry Bradshaw. You ever been You ever
[1:31:36] been so embarrassed or so in shock that
[1:31:38] you're two feet from someone, you can't
[1:31:41] see them.
[1:31:42] Your vision goes and that's what it was
[1:31:45] like. I couldn't even see him. I was
[1:31:48] stunned that he said that on you know
[1:31:52] >> so the point is
[1:31:55] >> it doesn't matter how talented you are
[1:31:57] it doesn't matter how audacious your
[1:31:58] dreams are to live a human life means
[1:32:02] that you're going to face obstacles and
[1:32:04] these obstacles are opportunities for
[1:32:07] growth and developing resilience etc and
[1:32:09] they're character building it's not
[1:32:12] about avoiding them it's about how you
[1:32:15] how you see yourself through to them.
[1:32:17] >> Well, you asked me a while ago about
[1:32:22] depression
[1:32:24] and uh having ADD,
[1:32:28] which was
[1:32:30] finding out I had
[1:32:32] attention deficit disorder was like best
[1:32:36] news I ever got
[1:32:37] >> cuz it explained
[1:32:38] >> It's also obvious. It's Yeah, I didn't
[1:32:42] know what I thought it was, [laughter]
[1:32:43] but it it explained
[1:32:46] um the problems [clears throat] I had
[1:32:49] with school.
[1:32:52] So, that's the the fact that I got
[1:32:55] through I'm proud of, but I had to read
[1:32:58] a book five times to get what you got
[1:33:00] out of it one time. And um most ADD
[1:33:03] people, we have to go over stuff because
[1:33:05] we're reading it and we don't even know
[1:33:07] we're reading it. So,
[1:33:08] >> and this this is This this results in,
[1:33:11] you know, people insulting your
[1:33:12] intelligence and calling you dumb over
[1:33:14] the years. Like, you had to weather like
[1:33:16] a lot of ACT test.
[1:33:19] >> I didn't even know what the ACT I I went
[1:33:21] sitting there in college to take the ACT
[1:33:23] test. Um, and I'm I'm going through that
[1:33:27] and I don't know what it's like now. I
[1:33:29] don't even know if they still take it,
[1:33:30] but you put little zeros, you color it
[1:33:33] in with your pencil. And I'm like, oh my
[1:33:36] god, this is,
[1:33:40] you know, this is ridiculous. And so I
[1:33:43] I finished it and couldn't I've never
[1:33:46] been so happy to be through with
[1:33:47] something in my life. And I made 15.
[1:33:51] Now that's almost moronic.
[1:33:54] [laughter] So, I didn't know I couldn't
[1:33:57] go to LSU, which was a blessing. If I
[1:33:59] got if I'd have made 16, I'd had to go
[1:34:02] to LSU because I'd signed with LSU. I
[1:34:04] didn't want to go to LSU. I felt
[1:34:06] pressured to go there. Um, so I'd take
[1:34:09] the SAT test to go to Louisiana Tech and
[1:34:12] I passed that. You know what I made on
[1:34:13] it? You want to know? I'll tell you
[1:34:14] exactly what I made. 46.
[1:34:17] >> That's pretty good.
[1:34:18] >> That's average.
[1:34:19] >> Yeah. It's like it's not like bad.
[1:34:22] >> Not bad. Not great. Not. Yeah. Average.
[1:34:25] Well, I'm average, you know. I'm an
[1:34:27] average guy, but about certain things,
[1:34:29] I'm really smart. And about other
[1:34:31] things. Yeah.
[1:34:33] >> Just like everyone else.
[1:34:34] >> Exactly. So, anyway, then
[1:34:38] then I started having these horrible
[1:34:40] panic attacks. And where did that come
[1:34:42] from? [gasps]
[1:34:44] And then after big games, I'd be down
[1:34:46] forever and just go headaches and
[1:34:49] [snorts]
[1:34:50] and didn't know what it was. get on a
[1:34:53] plane and then have another panic
[1:34:55] attack.
[1:34:57] [sighs and gasps] Um, [clears throat]
[1:34:58] got off a plane. They got me off a plane
[1:35:01] in Miami, carried me off um in a um
[1:35:06] [clears throat] put me in an ambulance.
[1:35:09] And this when you were still playing?
[1:35:11] >> Uh, no. I just gotten out. That's
[1:35:13] through playing. and
[1:35:16] they put me um in an ambulance, took me
[1:35:20] to emergency and the people I was there
[1:35:23] to speak to came with me in the
[1:35:26] ambulance and they got there and I was
[1:35:29] soaking wet
[1:35:32] and
[1:35:33] they're telling me and they're saying
[1:35:35] he's having a panic attack. So, well uh
[1:35:38] um how long's these things last and
[1:35:42] can we get him dressed? They wanted me
[1:35:45] to give the speech
[1:35:47] >> and man, I'm I'm think I'm having a
[1:35:49] heart attack. So, finally, they
[1:35:53] quiet me down and
[1:35:56] these people put me in the car that
[1:35:59] followed the ambulance, took me to the
[1:36:02] convention center, dressed me, and I
[1:36:05] went up and gave a speech. This is not
[1:36:08] this is not that different than you get
[1:36:10] injured on the field and they take you
[1:36:12] in the in the locker room and and
[1:36:14] they're putting whatever they need to
[1:36:16] into you to get you back out there.
[1:36:18] >> Shoot me up. Yeah.
[1:36:19] >> And then then after that after I gave
[1:36:22] the speech, they took me back to the
[1:36:24] hospital. So, I get into the hospital
[1:36:27] and the doctor the doc the [laughter]
[1:36:29] doctor they admit me back to the
[1:36:31] hospital to run tests and the doctor
[1:36:34] comes in about I don't know how late at
[1:36:36] night it was and I'm scared to death and
[1:36:40] he says we're going to have to we're
[1:36:42] going to have to uh do um heart surgery.
[1:36:45] We're going to open you know. They said
[1:36:47] yeah well I I've done I've done no
[1:36:50] tests. How's this guy
[1:36:53] going to operate? Are you kidding me?
[1:36:55] So,
[1:36:55] >> and you're like 36 37 or something
[1:36:58] >> probably. Yeah. Somewhere search 738.
[1:37:00] So, when this guy left and it it got
[1:37:03] around uh midnight, 1:00 in the morning,
[1:37:07] I put my stuff on.
[1:37:11] I eased on out of the hospital. I eas
[1:37:15] down the stairs and I walked and I found
[1:37:17] a store that had a phone. And I called
[1:37:20] my attorney and I told him what had
[1:37:23] happened. And I told him, you know,
[1:37:24] where I was and he ended up getting a
[1:37:28] plane [snorts] down there and picked me
[1:37:30] up and they flew me to Fort Worth to a
[1:37:34] hospital and they put me in there and
[1:37:36] went in and and and ran a thing up my
[1:37:41] thigh and shot
[1:37:43] um dye or whatever it is into my veins
[1:37:46] to see if I had block arteries or what.
[1:37:49] And and I was fine. It was nothing. I
[1:37:52] just had misdiagnosed your anxiety and
[1:37:54] panic are a [laughter] heart condition.
[1:37:55] >> How about that? Huh?
[1:37:56] >> Yeah. Wow.
[1:37:57] >> I snuck out of that hospital. [snorts]
[1:38:00] >> I know that you ended up going like this
[1:38:03] is around the time when there's starting
[1:38:06] to become some awareness around CTE,
[1:38:09] etc., right?
[1:38:09] >> You go and see a whole bunch of like
[1:38:11] brain specialists. Like, do I have this?
[1:38:14] What does this mean?
[1:38:15] >> Right? Um, and that's really when you
[1:38:18] start to like engage with mental health
[1:38:21] professionals around like what's
[1:38:23] actually going on with you and trying to
[1:38:24] get to the bottom of it.
[1:38:25] >> Yeah. Well, I credit my wife with this
[1:38:27] cuz I was having
[1:38:32] kind of like dementia stuff, you know,
[1:38:35] where you can't remember and you lose
[1:38:38] you're losing thought and and
[1:38:42] didn't know what was going on. Um, and I
[1:38:46] was uh
[1:38:49] forgetful, just forgetful, forgetful.
[1:38:52] And and it it got crazy actually crazy.
[1:38:57] So she took me, I went to Yell and we
[1:39:02] did three days of brain testing
[1:39:05] where they did everything to my brain
[1:39:07] that you could possibly do and came out
[1:39:11] from that. And the [gasps]
[1:39:15] uh doctor said no sign no sign no wear
[1:39:20] and tear for dementia. No what else? Uh
[1:39:23] no Alzheimer's.
[1:39:25] Uh CTE you can't tell till you're dead.
[1:39:29] Um so my brain was was you know was
[1:39:34] fine. So,
[1:39:35] >> and the explanation then for these
[1:39:37] memory lapses
[1:39:39] is
[1:39:41] >> I don't I don't really have the answer
[1:39:42] for that. I still have them.
[1:39:45] >> I I don't but I'M OLD. [laughter]
[1:39:48] >> YEAH. Part of that's aging, but I'm just
[1:39:50] curious maybe.
[1:39:51] >> Yeah. you know, in the context of of
[1:39:54] like being diagnosed with depression,
[1:39:56] you know, you there's there's some look,
[1:39:59] there's some, you know, like whether
[1:40:01] mild or severe, like there's some trauma
[1:40:03] in your in your background. And I think
[1:40:06] the psychological scars of, you know,
[1:40:09] the booing and and expectations being
[1:40:12] placed on you and like all these kind of
[1:40:15] things that you weathered over time add
[1:40:17] up and create like a kind of worldview
[1:40:20] or a sense of yourself. Maybe that has
[1:40:22] some relationship to forgetting things
[1:40:24] or or whatnot. But I think that there
[1:40:27] is, and this is really another kind of
[1:40:29] core theme of the book, like there's a
[1:40:32] cost that you've paid to have this life.
[1:40:35] There's the physical cost that you've
[1:40:37] paid of, you know, being in the
[1:40:39] gladiator ring for, you know, as many
[1:40:41] years as you were. There is the
[1:40:44] emotional cost that you've paid by
[1:40:46] having to weather the criticism, etc.
[1:40:48] that we've already talked about. There's
[1:40:50] also the the the
[1:40:53] like existential crit sort of uh cost of
[1:40:57] of
[1:40:58] to your identity like okay now this
[1:41:00] thing ends your athletic career and you
[1:41:02] have to figure out who you are next etc.
[1:41:04] And you lose that brotherhood that you
[1:41:07] thought you would always have which is
[1:41:09] something that you know anybody who is
[1:41:11] in the military and has been you know
[1:41:13] deployed to conflict zones like they
[1:41:15] experience some version of this like it
[1:41:17] is a sort of PTSD.
[1:41:19] >> Yeah. Especially if you're a seal. Have
[1:41:20] you noticed the brotherhood with seals?
[1:41:22] Yeah, that's pretty that's pretty
[1:41:24] strong. I
[1:41:25] >> you know, I suppose
[1:41:28] now back then
[1:41:31] what you're saying is probably a lot of
[1:41:33] truth to it. I mean, I had [gasps] I had
[1:41:36] more
[1:41:38] concussions than I realized. A
[1:41:40] concussion to me is I am totally out.
[1:41:43] That's a concussion.
[1:41:46] that there are a lot of concussions that
[1:41:48] you [clears throat] go, you know,
[1:41:51] >> that's a concussion and
[1:41:53] >> you just got your bell rung. It was just
[1:41:54] you got your bell rung.
[1:41:55] >> You have a lot of those. And so,
[1:41:57] >> but but uh
[1:42:01] they Here's a good Here's a here's the
[1:42:03] good thing about the depression. And
[1:42:05] here's the thing I did. I I I say this
[1:42:08] to the men that are listening, okay?
[1:42:10] Here's what I say to them. A woman will
[1:42:13] more than likely go and something's
[1:42:15] wrong, she's going to go to the doctor.
[1:42:17] A [clears throat] man's not going. He's
[1:42:18] not going. You got to drag him. Um, but
[1:42:22] I went and I'm very proud of the fact
[1:42:25] that I sought help. And it took
[1:42:32] [sighs]
[1:42:34] over a year
[1:42:36] with three different first was my
[1:42:39] preacher, then was my marriage
[1:42:42] counselor,
[1:42:44] um, a psych psychologist,
[1:42:48] and then it was a psychiatrist,
[1:42:50] and the end result was, [snorts] um,
[1:42:54] diagnosed with depression. And and when
[1:42:57] you go in for these when you spend time
[1:42:59] with these people, you go through your
[1:43:01] life. Well, I've gone through my life
[1:43:03] three times, it's exhausting. You ever
[1:43:07] been to a psychiatrist? Hey, it's Is it
[1:43:10] not exhausting? It's ex was for me.
[1:43:13] >> So tired of talking about myself.
[1:43:17] >> And
[1:43:19] it came out and he said, "We're going to
[1:43:21] put you on this drug and we see if this
[1:43:23] helps." And
[1:43:27] I think I've switched drugs once. I
[1:43:30] thought I thought and it was fabulous.
[1:43:34] Fabulous because the the um the big
[1:43:39] attacks have ceased.
[1:43:41] I still get the I still get the I still
[1:43:44] get small versions. Um um I
[1:43:48] [clears throat] thought I wasn't on the
[1:43:51] drugs anymore, but I've always been on
[1:43:54] them. I just didn't know it. My wife
[1:43:56] said, [laughter]
[1:43:58] "You take them every day." I went,
[1:44:00] "Really?" She said, "I [laughter] give
[1:44:02] them to you." So I went, "Oh, I didn't."
[1:44:06] So I said, "Oh, I didn't know that." But
[1:44:10] the key for me
[1:44:12] in being diagnosed with depression,
[1:44:16] number one, and there's a lot I want to
[1:44:18] say about this. Number one is that I'm
[1:44:21] proud of the fact I sought help.
[1:44:23] I knew something was wrong. Okay, I knew
[1:44:26] something was wrong. And I knew that
[1:44:30] when I had these attacks or when I had
[1:44:33] these spells, these horrible spells, I
[1:44:36] re I knew how sickening they were. It
[1:44:39] made me sick. So sick.
[1:44:42] >> And I Oh, I couldn't handle it. Just
[1:44:46] deep, dark.
[1:44:48] And it [laughter] it was devastating and
[1:44:51] scary.
[1:44:53] And
[1:44:54] I I had to get I I had to get I had to
[1:44:57] get rid of that. So being being over a
[1:45:02] year in in therapy and then three three
[1:45:06] actual years of of therapy of talking.
[1:45:10] Three years I did this
[1:45:12] >> a year a year before I got medicine and
[1:45:15] then three years of talking and
[1:45:19] becoming aware of depression and what
[1:45:22] triggered it in my life. you know, I
[1:45:23] know what triggers it. Um, or I know
[1:45:27] what will bring it on. Uh, and then the
[1:45:30] key was my wife knows it. All right. And
[1:45:33] al and I know and I know when it's
[1:45:36] coming on it. It's I know it's like
[1:45:39] watching the sun go down. I can sit
[1:45:42] there and as sun goes down, I'm watching
[1:45:45] it. It's fixing to get dark.
[1:45:47] >> Same thing with this this disease. as it
[1:45:51] goes. I can feel it coming on
[1:45:54] >> and knowing that you have tools to make
[1:45:58] it less severe.
[1:45:59] >> Yes, I still get them. They don't last
[1:46:02] as long anymore. I get and the signs are
[1:46:05] real obvious. I get real quiet. Real
[1:46:08] quiet. Can you imagine? I get real
[1:46:10] quiet. I get uh and I and I isolate
[1:46:15] and she knows it and she she'll come out
[1:46:20] and she'll notice it. She notices
[1:46:23] notices it immediately and then she
[1:46:26] comes out and and and it's kind of cute.
[1:46:29] She goes she'll say to me, "Is Roy
[1:46:32] showing up?"
[1:46:33] >> Mhm.
[1:46:34] >> You know, that's one phrase. or she'll
[1:46:36] say, "Are you is it is are are you
[1:46:39] having your moments?" And I and I'll go,
[1:46:42] "Yeah." And sometimes it's emotional.
[1:46:44] And I'll say, "Yeah, I'm really
[1:46:45] struggling right now." And so she gets
[1:46:48] me she gets me out of that.
[1:46:51] >> Mhm.
[1:46:51] >> I can't sit there. She gets me up and
[1:46:54] gets me out of it.
[1:46:55] >> What [snorts] happens when you got to go
[1:46:57] on the air and Roy is Royy's running the
[1:47:00] show? You just
[1:47:01] >> I can control Roy.
[1:47:03] >> The show must go on. Yeah, that's that's
[1:47:05] pretty much the way it is. I've I can
[1:47:07] honestly say
[1:47:09] Roy showed up one time and so it's
[1:47:14] actually comical. So I'm sitting there
[1:47:17] at the desk with the Fox desk and I got
[1:47:21] my head down [laughter]
[1:47:24] the clip.
[1:47:25] >> Yeah.
[1:47:26] >> And I had these pills. So, I took this,
[1:47:31] you know, took this pill and I drank
[1:47:34] some water and I'm sitting there and I'm
[1:47:37] I'm trying to focus, you know, because
[1:47:40] it's live television [snorts] and I'm
[1:47:43] [clears throat] and I don't read
[1:47:44] anything. It's all comes out of your
[1:47:46] head. And I'm sitting there and I and I
[1:47:50] lock in to the table. I'm just
[1:47:57] how he goes. Hey, man.
[1:48:00] Hey, you okay? And I don't say anything.
[1:48:04] Hey, [clears throat]
[1:48:06] are you okay? And this is what this is
[1:48:09] what came out of the Are you okay? I
[1:48:12] turn to Howie and I go,
[1:48:15] I took the WRONG PILL.
[1:48:18] I took a sleeping pill.
[1:48:20] >> No.
[1:48:22] [laughter]
[1:48:23] AND WE
[1:48:24] >> OH MY GOD.
[1:48:25] >> We We start We started laughing and
[1:48:29] Then you were out of it.
[1:48:30] >> I was good, but I was I took that
[1:48:32] [laughter] sleeping pill. I WAS OH MY
[1:48:36] GOD. HOW I just I took I just I didn't
[1:48:39] know what was wrong with me. I was JUST
[1:48:42] [laughter]
[1:48:43] That's a pretty good one.
[1:48:45] >> I took sleeping, Phil.
[1:48:47] >> In the in the movie of [laughter] your
[1:48:48] life, this scene has to take place.
[1:48:51] >> Oh, it's funny. Funny. Not funny, but
[1:48:53] funny. You know,
[1:48:55] >> depression isn't the only thing you've
[1:48:56] been diagnosed with. you were diagnosed
[1:48:59] with cancer twice. Uh you survived that.
[1:49:02] Um
[1:49:03] >> it's like what's next?
[1:49:04] >> Yeah. I mean, you know, like you've
[1:49:07] you've gone through a lot, man. So,
[1:49:09] >> the depression I will say this, I mean,
[1:49:11] interrupt you just right. The depression
[1:49:13] was was the worst I ever felt. Cancer, I
[1:49:17] think stage three was as close as I got.
[1:49:20] And that would have been with with the
[1:49:22] Merkel cell, the skin, which is just
[1:49:23] really rare
[1:49:24] >> rare. Yeah. uh form of skin cancer which
[1:49:26] is the second one. The first one was
[1:49:28] bladder bladder cancer.
[1:49:30] >> Yeah.
[1:49:30] >> And that was amunotherapy to deal with
[1:49:33] that.
[1:49:34] >> I still have and then you know what's so
[1:49:35] bad about that? Still have to go back
[1:49:37] and you know once a year and
[1:49:40] >> Sure.
[1:49:41] >> Yeah. It's it's like a sliver under your
[1:49:44] skin gnawing at you. [clears throat]
[1:49:46] And even if like okay not stage four
[1:49:49] stage it doesn't matter
[1:49:50] >> who yeah
[1:49:51] >> cancer diagnosis is gonna confront you
[1:49:53] with your mortality and and make you
[1:49:56] kind of think about
[1:49:57] >> you know death in a way that we don't
[1:49:59] when we're just living our lives. So
[1:50:01] what did what did those experiences
[1:50:02] teach you about
[1:50:04] >> about that
[1:50:06] >> like your relationship with death and
[1:50:08] your own mortality? Well, I here's the
[1:50:09] way I I felt. I my my quiet thought was
[1:50:14] if I die, I'm going to heaven.
[1:50:17] Uh how painful am I? How much
[1:50:20] [clears throat] pain am I going to be
[1:50:21] in? You know, that was
[1:50:24] >> you know, and then Tammy was telling me
[1:50:26] she wouldn't let me talk like that. She
[1:50:28] stop it. Stop it. We're not going to
[1:50:30] talk like that. But you're going to be
[1:50:32] fine. You're going to get fine. But I'm
[1:50:35] I'm the one that has the cancer, you I'm
[1:50:38] just I got a thousand questions I want
[1:50:39] to ask when the Can I tell you a funny
[1:50:42] thing about this cancer?
[1:50:45] So, we're waiting on the bladder results
[1:50:48] to come back.
[1:50:50] All right. And so, she walks in to the
[1:50:56] den and I'm standing there and she goes,
[1:50:59] "Honey, I need for you to sit down."
[1:51:03] Well, the last time anybody asked me,
[1:51:05] last time a woman ever asked me to sit
[1:51:07] down, she said, "Never good. Not good at
[1:51:10] all." And the words out of that woman's
[1:51:12] mouth was, "I don't love it anymore, and
[1:51:14] I want your ass out of this house by
[1:51:16] 5:30 this afternoon." So, I told her, I
[1:51:19] said, "Hey, I got news for you. I ain't
[1:51:22] sitting down. You're not going to get me
[1:51:24] there." And she says, "No, the She says,
[1:51:28] um, you have bladder cancer." Something
[1:51:31] to
[1:51:31] >> Mhm. She was much more softer than that.
[1:51:35] But and I went, "What?"
[1:51:39] Then what is what is bladder cancer?
[1:51:41] What does it do? Can and then can can we
[1:51:44] treat it?
[1:51:46] So that was that was the first cancer.
[1:51:52] I and during the treatment, Rich is when
[1:51:55] I I went, [snorts]
[1:51:58] man, I don't know if I'm I don't know if
[1:52:00] I'm gonna make I don't know if I'm gonna
[1:52:02] get out of this. Everybody said, "It's
[1:52:04] looking good. It's looking good." I'm
[1:52:05] one of those guys. Don't tell me it's
[1:52:07] looking good when I know it's looking
[1:52:09] bad.
[1:52:10] >> You know, you you don't want to think
[1:52:12] like that, but you do. You know, it's
[1:52:15] like I I talk about [sighs]
[1:52:18] dying and I I try to explain to people
[1:52:21] when you get my age, it's something it
[1:52:25] pops up. How much longer do I have? I'm
[1:52:28] 70. How much longer I got? I If I got
[1:52:31] 70, my dad was 84. Okay. What What I do
[1:52:34] I have six What? Do I have six more
[1:52:36] years? My mother died. She was 94. Or do
[1:52:39] I have 16 more years? Um, you know, now
[1:52:43] I've had these cancers. And then then
[1:52:47] we're
[1:52:49] checking for spasms. I get these spasms
[1:52:51] in my neck from where I got hurt,
[1:52:53] injured when I played.
[1:52:54] >> So, I get them and they they're painful
[1:52:56] as hell.
[1:52:57] >> And I said, "Boy," she said, "Well,
[1:52:59] while we're up there, [sighs] we will
[1:53:02] have them in Yale. We do we'll do an
[1:53:05] MRI, see if you've got a a a disc that's
[1:53:09] impinging." So we did the MRI and they
[1:53:11] found the the tumor over here. So if I
[1:53:15] hadn't have been bitching about this.
[1:53:16] >> So yeah, by happen stance because of the
[1:53:19] spasm, because of this injury you
[1:53:20] sustained, you were able to get this.
[1:53:23] >> So now I'm saying, "Thank you, Lord.
[1:53:25] This is this is something that I would
[1:53:29] have just, you know, and he said, you
[1:53:32] can't feel this knot." And I went, "No,
[1:53:35] no." So then he put my finger on it
[1:53:37] right there and I went, "Oh, is that
[1:53:39] what that is? [laughter] That's a
[1:53:41] tumor."
[1:53:42] >> Wow. It's wild.
[1:53:45] What else you want to talk about, Rich?
[1:53:47] [laughter]
[1:53:47] >> Oh, I got lots more, buddy. I'm not
[1:53:50] going to hold you that much longer, but
[1:53:52] And this is really my last question for
[1:53:53] you.
[1:53:54] >> Is it? uh you're still this competitive
[1:53:56] athlete who's who's just in in the game
[1:54:00] in the game of broadcasting, living big,
[1:54:02] doing the things that light you up and
[1:54:05] publicly saying like they're going to
[1:54:06] have to drag me out of the the booth
[1:54:08] like I'm going to keep doing this.
[1:54:11] What is it that you're still striving
[1:54:14] for or chasing by living that life when
[1:54:19] you don't have to?
[1:54:20] >> Well,
[1:54:22] I've never thought
[1:54:24] about that question.
[1:54:27] Um because that question has a lot of
[1:54:30] answers. Um
[1:54:34] I I love quoting this from the movie
[1:54:38] Tombstone
[1:54:40] when Val Kilmer Doc Doc Holiday when
[1:54:44] Billy Bob Thornton comes out of the bar
[1:54:46] after Wyatt Herp went in there and
[1:54:48] slapped him, grabbed him by the ear and
[1:54:50] took him out. And then he's out there.
[1:54:52] Wyatt's talking to Doc Val Kilmer, Doc
[1:54:55] Hollywood Holiday. And Bob Thornton
[1:55:00] comes running out with the shotgun.
[1:55:02] And Kilmer's smoking a cigarette,
[1:55:06] Val Kimmer smokes a cigarette, and he
[1:55:08] turns around. He and and Billy Bob sees
[1:55:11] him and he freezes in his tracks
[1:55:13] realizing it's Doc Holiday. And he stops
[1:55:17] and he goes,
[1:55:19] "Well, Doc,
[1:55:22] I heard you was dead." And Val Kilmer,
[1:55:25] the great line, "I beg to differ. I'm
[1:55:30] just reaching my prime."
[1:55:32] That's my approach.
[1:55:34] >> My approach is way too much to do. Way
[1:55:39] too many speeches to give. Way too many
[1:55:41] horse shows to show my my horses and
[1:55:44] breed the next great champion. Way too
[1:55:46] many beautiful grandkids to love and
[1:55:48] spoil. Way too much time to barbecue
[1:55:51] with my three girls and their husbands.
[1:55:53] I mean way too way too much time to be
[1:55:56] on television entertaining people and
[1:55:58] making people laugh and way too much. So
[1:56:01] I don't I don't trap myself. Now I do
[1:56:04] say golly boy 78 I'm going to be dying
[1:56:08] you. I'm dying. My wife says stop it
[1:56:09] right now. Don't break. So she keeps me.
[1:56:11] She checks that with me. But I don't
[1:56:16] I don't have an exit. Is that good? I
[1:56:20] don't have an exit, Rich. I I don't
[1:56:23] >> I don't have I'm not crawling off the
[1:56:26] stage.
[1:56:26] >> You're 110% guy. You're living your life
[1:56:28] at, you know, full speed and and you
[1:56:33] know, and God bless you. You know what I
[1:56:34] mean? Like what more do you want in
[1:56:35] life? Like you've got
[1:56:37] >> a beautiful family. The book is the book
[1:56:40] is also this, you know, not for nothing.
[1:56:43] You've been married a couple times, but
[1:56:44] this is a this is this is also it's a
[1:56:47] book about unconditional love and
[1:56:48] acceptance also.
[1:56:49] >> Well, [clears throat] God did not intend
[1:56:51] for man to be on this earth alone.
[1:56:54] That's why he gave us woman.
[1:56:56] And
[1:56:59] I struggled with
[1:57:01] with getting the right
[1:57:05] woman. And I had to after my third
[1:57:10] divorce.
[1:57:12] So embarrassing.
[1:57:14] I so embarrassed. And trying to
[1:57:19] figure out
[1:57:22] what the hell's wrong with me cuz the
[1:57:24] common denominator and all of that was
[1:57:26] me. Three women but the same me. And
[1:57:31] and so I had to once again counseling
[1:57:36] to break that chain. This is what I'm
[1:57:40] attracted to. Got to break that chain.
[1:57:43] And and and you list the things you're
[1:57:47] looking for in a woman. And what is
[1:57:49] love? What is true love? Being in love.
[1:57:52] What does that mean? [sighs and gasps]
[1:57:54] And it and I didn't honestly think I was
[1:57:59] capable of it. And
[1:58:04] the one thing in my life that's
[1:58:05] embarrassing is when people say been
[1:58:08] married three times. You know what? I've
[1:58:10] been married three times.
[1:58:13] Four now. And
[1:58:17] it was tough. How do you handle that?
[1:58:20] that I know how I younger the young
[1:58:23] Terry looked at these Hollywood people
[1:58:26] that were married multiple times and I
[1:58:28] thought, "Oh [clears throat] man, you
[1:58:30] know,
[1:58:31] it doesn't sit well with me." But I had
[1:58:34] to I had to cut ties with things that
[1:58:37] Terry really liked
[1:58:40] and there was nobody ever going to, you
[1:58:42] know, it just meant I was going to be by
[1:58:44] myself and so be it. And then I met
[1:58:46] Tammy and I fought her for 12 years. I
[1:58:51] just I just was not I was not going
[1:58:56] [clears throat] to get married. I was
[1:58:57] not going to allow myself to think I was
[1:59:00] in love. I was not cuz I did. I thought
[1:59:03] I'd blow this one too. And she was she
[1:59:07] just kept
[1:59:08] she just kept being wonderful. And I
[1:59:11] just kept running away but coming back.
[1:59:14] And
[1:59:16] then all of a sudden I realized, wait a
[1:59:18] minute, the best friend, my best friend.
[1:59:21] We do everything together. We enjoy,
[1:59:24] [clears throat] you know, the horses,
[1:59:25] the fishing, the travel, the golf, and
[1:59:28] she's my golfing buddy. I only play golf
[1:59:30] with her. I show horses with her. We go
[1:59:33] through our horse program together. We
[1:59:35] make decisions together. Um, we built
[1:59:38] she built and designed our home. I mean,
[1:59:41] I finally realized she's my You hear
[1:59:44] that? My best friend.
[1:59:45] >> Mhm.
[1:59:47] >> We've 22 years together, we've been
[1:59:49] apart one day. One day.
[1:59:51] >> Wow.
[1:59:52] >> Yeah. It's pretty cool. And so, finally,
[1:59:57] I had a hard time
[2:00:01] getting married again. I had a hard time
[2:00:06] till one night playing around in the
[2:00:09] living room in front of the fireplace. I
[2:00:12] knew I needed to get on my knee and ask
[2:00:13] her to marry me. So I told her, "I'm
[2:00:15] going to practice asking you to marry
[2:00:17] me, having fun with her." So she stood
[2:00:19] up and I got down on one knee and I took
[2:00:22] her hand and I took her hand.
[2:00:27] I couldn't even look at her. Yeah. T T T
[2:00:30] T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T
[2:00:30] T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T Tammy
[2:00:32] [laughter]
[2:00:33] like aversion therapy.
[2:00:34] >> Oh my god. And then I started laughing.
[2:00:37] So the best way for me to do I know,
[2:00:39] Rich. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, man.
[2:00:42] >> You had to do a bunch of research to get
[2:00:44] to this place. That's all.
[2:00:45] >> On my heart. On my heart. Yeah.
[2:00:47] >> And I passed her in the hallway.
[2:00:51] >> Saturday night. We passed in the hallway
[2:00:53] and I put my hand up. I said, "Hey,
[2:00:55] we're getting married Tuesday. We're on
[2:00:56] our way to Hawaii the next day." I said
[2:00:59] we're getting married Tuesday. We get to
[2:01:01] Hawaii Sunday.
[2:01:03] Monday I'm cooking cooking for for uh um
[2:01:09] the uh we getting married. So I started
[2:01:13] cooking and she said to me,
[2:01:16] "Look, I don't know if you were teasing
[2:01:18] or kidding around, but today's Monday
[2:01:21] and we don't have a marriage license."
[2:01:23] [snorts]
[2:01:24] And it dawned on me, we got to go to the
[2:01:27] courthouse, right? [snorts] We got to go
[2:01:29] get one. So, we went and we got it. And
[2:01:32] I didn't know it, but I was in such a
[2:01:34] shock as I was walking down the hallway.
[2:01:36] She was standing behind me filming me
[2:01:38] [laughter]
[2:01:39] going in. I went in, we signed the
[2:01:42] paperwork,
[2:01:44] went in the backyard, had some neighbors
[2:01:46] come over so we'd have some witnesses.
[2:01:48] My preacher from Houston showed up. We
[2:01:51] got married. And the minute we got
[2:01:52] married, we're all crying. and we're all
[2:01:54] emotional and then then you then you go
[2:01:57] then you have this why in the world did
[2:02:00] it take so long cuz it was great
[2:02:03] >> and it's been great ever since.
[2:02:05] >> I'm happy for you, man.
[2:02:06] >> Yeah, I'm happy for me.
[2:02:07] >> Yeah, it's great.
[2:02:08] >> Yeah. Selfishly speaking, I'm very happy
[2:02:10] for me. You know, the book is called
[2:02:13] Looking for Terry. I think we uh I'm
[2:02:15] looking right at him. Uh I think we we
[2:02:17] found a bit of him at least today. Uh I
[2:02:20] love the book. This was great, man. This
[2:02:22] was super fun. so much on you. I
[2:02:24] appreciate it. I appreciate it. You just
[2:02:26] you just came with great energy.
[2:02:28] >> Uh and just you you left it on the
[2:02:31] field, my friend. This was fantastic. Do
[2:02:33] you feel you okay? You feel all right?
[2:02:35] >> No, I'm fine. You know what? My butt's
[2:02:37] hurting from sitting so long.
[2:02:39] >> We'll get you up out of there.
[2:02:40] >> This is great.
[2:02:41] >> Um cool. You're welcome here anytime. I
[2:02:43] hope so. Best of luck with everything.
[2:02:45] Thank you. This is great. Appreciate
[2:02:46] you. Cheers.