BrightStar

Browse All Events

Discover conscious gatherings

events

Yoga
Meditation
Breathwork
Qigong
Tai Chi
Sacred Music
World Music
Medicine Music
Sound Healing
Ecstatic Dance
Popular Destinations
BaliSedonaLos AngelesCosta RicaNew YorkSan FranciscoAustinMiamiJoshua TreeTulum
View All CategoriesView All Destinations

Explore All Features

Powerful tools to grow your events

Platform Features

Smart Dynamic Pricing
Ticket Categories
Assigned Seating
Abandoned Cart Recovery
Visitor Recovery
Donations & Sliding Scale
Affiliate Engine
Ticket Scanner
Coupon Codes
Custom Questions
Ticket Sharing
Upsells & Add-ons
Analytics & Reporting
Email Sequences
Waitlist / Notify / Remind
People & Places
Artists & TeachersEvent OrganizersVenues & StudiosKnowledge BaseGlossaryInspiration
View All FeaturesAbout Us
PricingBlog
Language
Saved events
Browse All Events

events

YogaMeditationBreathworkQigongTai ChiSacred MusicWorld MusicMedicine Music

Popular Destinations

BaliSedonaLos AngelesCosta RicaNew YorkSan Francisco

People & Places

Artists & TeachersEvent OrganizersVenues & StudiosKnowledge BaseGlossaryInspiration

Platform Features

Smart Dynamic PricingTicket CategoriesAssigned SeatingAbandoned Cart RecoveryVisitor RecoveryDonations & Sliding ScaleAffiliate EngineTicket ScannerCoupon CodesCustom QuestionsTicket SharingUpsells & Add-onsAnalytics & ReportingEmail SequencesWaitlist / Notify / Remind
View All FeaturesAbout Us
PricingBlog
Log inFind EventsHost Events
  • Browse All Events
  • For Seekers
  • Yoga
  • Meditation
  • Breathwork
  • Qigong
  • Tai Chi
  • Sacred Music
  • World Music
  • Medicine Music
  • Sound Healing
  • Ecstatic Dance
  • Retreats
  • Workshops
  • All Categories →
  • Bali
  • Sedona
  • Los Angeles
  • Costa Rica
  • Tulum
  • Byron Bay
  • San Francisco
  • Austin
  • New York
  • San Diego
  • Denver
  • Seattle
  • Portland
  • Miami
  • All Cities →
  • Join the Movement
  • Why we list
  • Sell Globally
  • For Creators
  • For Teams
  • For Writers
  • For Teachers
  • For Kirtan Artists
  • For Studios
  • For Festivals
  • For Retreat Centers
  • For Nonprofits
  • Brand Ambassador
  • Free Ticketing
  • Elevate
  • Amplify
  • 500K+ Buyer Network
  • Abandoned Cart Recovery
  • Smart Dynamic Pricing
  • Ticket Categories
  • Recurring Events
  • Assigned Seating
  • Affiliate Engine
  • Waitlist / Notify
  • Ticket Scanner
  • Embed Widget
  • Event Syndication
  • Message Center
  • Integrations
  • Reports
  • All Features →
  • About
  • The Ecosystem
  • Blog
  • Glossary
  • Inspiration
  • Help Center
  • Contact
  • API Docs
  • Brand Assets
  • Careers
  • Press
  • Terms of Service
  • Privacy Policy

Events

  • Browse All Events
  • For Seekers
  • Yoga
  • Meditation
  • Breathwork
  • Qigong
  • Tai Chi
  • Sacred Music
  • World Music
  • Medicine Music
  • Sound Healing
  • Ecstatic Dance
  • Retreats
  • Workshops
  • All Categories →

Destinations

  • Bali
  • Sedona
  • Los Angeles
  • Costa Rica
  • Tulum
  • Byron Bay
  • San Francisco
  • Austin
  • New York
  • San Diego
  • Denver
  • Seattle
  • Portland
  • Miami
  • All Cities →

For Creators

  • Join the Movement
  • Why we list
  • Sell Globally
  • For Creators
  • For Teams
  • For Writers
  • For Teachers
  • For Kirtan Artists
  • For Studios
  • For Festivals
  • For Retreat Centers
  • For Nonprofits
  • Brand Ambassador
  • Free Ticketing
  • Elevate
  • Amplify

Features

  • 500K+ Buyer Network
  • Abandoned Cart Recovery
  • Smart Dynamic Pricing
  • Ticket Categories
  • Recurring Events
  • Assigned Seating
  • Affiliate Engine
  • Waitlist / Notify
  • Ticket Scanner
  • Embed Widget
  • Event Syndication
  • Message Center
  • Integrations
  • Reports
  • All Features →

Company

  • About
  • The Ecosystem
  • Blog
  • Glossary
  • Inspiration
  • Help Center
  • Contact
  • API Docs
  • Brand Assets
  • Careers
  • Press
  • Terms of Service
  • Privacy Policy
BrightStar
Get the app
Download on theApp StoreGet it onGoogle Play
© 2026 BrightStar. All rights reserved.
Inspiration

Depression Hit Harder Than Cancer: Terry Bradshaw's Hidden Struggle

Rich Roll
Rich Roll
Oct 26, 2026
8 min read

From Rich Roll

Watch · 8

Terry Bradshaw was built to win. The drive was all-consuming: the need to be the best, to shut out everything else, to treat football—the thing he loved—as the singular measure of his value. He led the Pittsburgh Steelers to four Super Bowl titles in the 1970s, then became one of America's most recognizable broadcasters. The Hall of Famer survived two different kinds of cancer, rode the bench as a high school player, endured being called a flop in his rookie year, and somehow kept moving forward. But in his new memoir Looking for Terry, Bradshaw reveals something that broke him harder than any of that: depression so severe it made him physically sick, a darkness he couldn't perform his way out of, and a mental health crisis that lasted far longer than any cancer treatment.

"Super Bowl's over. Horribly depressed. Terribly depressed for weeks. I knew something was wrong. And I knew that when I had these attacks, I knew how sickening they were. It made me sick. It's like watching the sun go down. And I'm watching it. It's fixing to get dark." The image is stark—not the language of an athlete, but of someone describing a physical phenomenon he couldn't stop, couldn't run from, couldn't bench himself out of. That's the thread running through Bradshaw's conversation on the Rich Roll Podcast: the things nobody saw, the obstacles that shaped him not because they were conquered on the field, but because they happened in the mind.

Read · 7 sections

The NFL Then: Physicality, Loyalty, and Time to Grow

To understand Bradshaw's path, you have to understand the world he played in—and how radically different it was from today. The NFL of the 1950s, '60s, and '70s was governed by one principle: physical dominance. There were almost no rules protecting players. Pass interference was total collision. The game celebrated viciousness; networks aired "greatest hits" of the week like highlights from a gladiator arena. Players didn't see speed or athleticism comparable to modern rosters—linemen averaged around 250 pounds, not 300—but the toughness was absolute. "The guy you don't see, that's the one that hurts," Bradshaw explained. "The guy you don't see that gets a clean shot at you."

But there was one rule that shaped Bradshaw's entire career and made recovery possible: loyalty. Once you were drafted, you were yours team's player. You couldn't go anywhere unless you were cut or traded. This meant young players had time—actual seasons, actual years—to grow into their roles, to learn the offense, to mature under pressure. Bradshaw came out first overall in the draft and struggled terribly his rookie year. His second year improved slightly. By his third and fourth years, he was getting comfortable with the offense and the role. "Today I wouldn't have made it," he said flatly. "I would have been gone. I had to grow up. I had to mature. I had to get used to being booed."

This isn't nostalgia—it's about the architecture of development. Contemporary quarterbacks drafted in the top ten often face trade talk or career-revival conversations within two years if their first season doesn't dazzle. Players come into every game worried about getting cut, which means they can't "cook," as the expression goes. They can't develop skill over time. The system has contracted; the rope is shorter. Bradshaw had the rare luxury of failure with a future.

What Built Bradshaw: Pressure, Tough Coaching, and No Safety Net

Playing under Chuck Noll, the Steelers' legendary coach, meant playing in fear. There was no defensive coordinator. There was no quarterback coach. Players called their own plays—no wristband with coded plays, no offensive coordinator whispering strategy into an earpiece. It was all in Bradshaw's hands. "It was a lot of pressure," he said. That pressure taught him to think, to adapt, to own his choices in real time. It also meant there was nowhere to hide and no one to blame but himself.

But Noll's era also produced something else: a culture where you had to know your value. A tough coach doesn't tell you you're great; he shows you what great looks like and expects you to meet it. Bradshaw internalized that standard. Later in life, when people asked him what it was like to get hit by famous defensive players, he had an answer ready: "Well, you know, those guys don't hurt you as much as the guy you don't see." That's not just an observation about football—it's an observation about accountability. The hits you see coming, you can brace for. It's the unseen ones that wreck you.

Kindness, Authenticity, and the Cost of People-Pleasing

One of the most striking dimensions of Bradshaw's story is how a man built to compete learned to lead through something that looks, on its surface, like softness: respect and kindness. In his broadcasting career, Bradshaw developed a presence that's both commanding and warm—he's opinionated without cruelty. When he talks about leadership, the framework isn't dominance; it's vision and buy-in. "If your guys bought into your vision of leadership," he said, "I'm not going to yell. I'm not I'm not going to demean you."

But this also traces back to a deeper struggle: people-pleasing. Bradshaw has had to learn the difference between leading with kindness and disappearing into other people's expectations. Over his long career—acting in movies, recording country albums, broadcasting—he's taken on many identities. The question underneath all of it was: Which one is real? That search, the one that gives his memoir its title Looking for Terry, is inseparable from his mental health crisis.

The depression that hit him after Super Bowl wins wasn't a sign of weakness or ingratitude. It was what happens when a person has spent decades performing excellence, managing other people's happiness, and hasn't asked himself who he actually is beneath all of it. "Knowing your value," he said, is foundational. But if you've spent your life trying to be what others need, knowing your value becomes impossible.

ADHD, Anxiety, and the Depression That Wouldn't Lift

Bradshaw has lived with ADHD and anxiety for his entire life—though he didn't always have language for it. The drive that made him a champion, that need to be the best and never shut it off, was partially neurological. The thing he loved doing was the thing driving him crazy. Add to that the cultural expectation that a tough guy, an athlete, a winner, simply doesn't get depressed, and you have a recipe for silence.

The depression episodes were physical. They made him sick. They had a phenomenological quality: like watching the sun go down and knowing darkness was coming, but being unable to stop it. For weeks after a Super Bowl victory—moments that should have been euphoric—he was "horribly depressed, terribly depressed." No amount of achievement could fix it. No validation from the outside could reach it.

What finally broke the silence wasn't willpower or another accomplishment. It was his wife saying, plainly, "You need to get help." That's the other story in Bradshaw's arc: recognizing that some obstacles can't be overcome alone, that asking for help isn't quitting, and that a partner who knows you well enough to call you into consciousness—"she's with me 24/7"—is as essential as any coach ever was.

Cancer and Mortality: The Physical and the Psychological

Bradshaw survived cancer twice—two different cancers. Both were serious. Both required treatment and recovery. But the cancer, Bradshaw is clear, was not the worst thing he faced. Depression was. Why? Because cancer has a protocol. You get treatment. You recover or you don't. You know the enemy. Depression is invisible, insidious, and it convinces you that you're the problem, that you should be able to think your way out of it, that asking for help is an admission of failure.

This framing—that depression was harder than cancer—isn't self-pity. It's a kind of honesty that challenges the narrative many people cling to: that physical suffering is "real" and mental suffering is weakness or indulgence. Bradshaw's willingness to say depression was worse is an act of truth-telling about what actually broke him.

Finding Purpose and Staying Engaged With Life

The recovery from depression, unlike cancer, isn't measured in clear stages. Bradshaw talks about staying engaged with life, about the importance of having things to do, people to love, reasons to show up. This isn't the language of "positive thinking"—it's the language of meaning. A life without engagement, without purpose, is a slow kind of dying. Staying engaged means showing up for your wife, for your work, for the things you build. It means not checking out, even when the darkness feels inevitable.

He's also clear about something else: "The show must go on." But not in the way it sounds. Not in the way that says suppress it and perform. He means: you have to choose to participate in life even when you don't feel like it, even when you're terrified, even when you'd rather retreat. That's not denial. That's courage.

Where to go from here

Bradshaw's story matters not because he's famous, but because he's willing to talk about what fame couldn't fix. His book Looking for Terry is an account of obstacles—being benched, being called a flop, surviving two cancers, battling depression—but more importantly, it's an account of the internal work: knowing your value, learning to lead without yelling, asking for help, staying engaged. If you've ever felt the gap between external success and internal emptiness, or if you've struggled with depression that no achievement could reach, Bradshaw's willingness to name it straight is the beginning of a conversation you might need to have with yourself.

Comments

Loading the conversation…

Transcript

[0:00] I wanted to be the best. I wanted to be

[0:04] successful. That's all I thought about

[0:06] was winning. And I just could shut it

[0:10] off. The thing I loved to do was the

[0:13] thing that was driving me crazy. You

[0:15] know, Terry Bradshaw because he is

[0:18] synonymous with American football. first

[0:21] as a Hall of Fame quarterback who led

[0:23] the Pittsburgh Steelers [music] to four

[0:25] Super Bowl titles in the 1970s and then

[0:28] [music] as an outspoken broadcaster who

[0:31] has co-hosted Fox NFL Sunday since 1994.

[0:35] Along the way, he's acted in movies.

[0:37] He's recorded [music] country music

[0:39] albums. But less wellknown and

[0:41] understood are the countless obstacles

[0:43] that he's faced and overcome along his

[0:46] very [music] long and windy path. like

[0:48] riding the bench in high school, being

[0:50] considered a giant flop by everyone

[0:52] during his rookie year with the

[0:54] Steelers, surviving two bouts with two

[0:56] different kinds [music] of cancer, an

[0:59] identity crisis, and a series of mental

[1:01] health challenges, all of which Terry

[1:04] details in his new [music] memoir,

[1:06] Looking for Terry, and talks about today

[1:08] with remarkable cander. Super Bowl's

[1:11] over. Horribly depressed. Terribly

[1:14] depressed for weeks. I knew something

[1:17] was wrong. And I knew that when I had

[1:20] these attacks, I knew how sickening they

[1:23] were. It made me sick. It's like

[1:26] watching the sun go down. And I'm

[1:28] watching it. It's fixing to get dark.

[1:30] Terry's definitely a one of one. And his

[1:32] larger than-l life personality

[1:34] definitely comes across in our

[1:36] wide-ranging conversation. I love it.

[1:38] And I think it will leave you with

[1:40] learnings about life and maybe even a

[1:43] new and deeper understanding of one of

[1:45] America's most indelible characters.

[1:47] [music]

[1:54] You did a great job with the book. It's

[1:56] a delight to have you here today. And

[1:58] the book

[2:00] is great for maybe uh unexpected

[2:04] reasons. I think it's great because it's

[2:07] very honest. It's very vulnerable. You

[2:10] are willing to talk about uh things that

[2:13] maybe you haven't talked about publicly

[2:15] before or at least not much. Uh and it

[2:18] defies the kind of athlete memoir trope

[2:22] of the typical professional athlete who

[2:26] writes a book with the hopes that it

[2:29] will extend their career. So, it's not

[2:31] always the most honest account of what

[2:33] actually happened. And I mean it's a

[2:35] book about facing and overcoming

[2:38] obstacles. It's about perseverance and

[2:40] resilience and you know all and and and

[2:43] I think it's also like so much about

[2:46] like what people don't know like I'm of

[2:48] the age like I grew up in Washington DC

[2:49] in the era of Joe Thyman

[2:52] >> and uh you know it was right in the

[2:54] pocket of like when you were you know at

[2:56] your peak peak powers. Um, and so it's

[3:01] much like your favorite bands are the

[3:04] ones you were listening to when you were

[3:06] 16. It stays with you your whole life.

[3:08] So in my mind, like this is the greatest

[3:10] era of football and it doesn't matter

[3:12] what anybody has done in the last 40

[3:14] years. Like this still stands out as

[3:16] like the glory days. Sometimes you have

[3:18] to remind the viewer [clears throat] or

[3:20] the reader,

[3:22] hey, we were pretty good. Mhm.

[3:25] >> Back in our day, as they like, as they

[3:27] phrase it, back in our day, we were

[3:28] pretty good. And today, in today's game,

[3:31] it's they can't get past uh, you know,

[3:36] the Bradies and the Mannings of the

[3:38] world. And, you know, the rest of us

[3:40] were, and I get it. I mean, sure,

[3:42] >> I'm 78. I'm not 38.

[3:44] >> Yeah. Who Who wants to hear about how

[3:45] great it was way back then?

[3:47] >> Yeah. Nobody, right?

[3:48] >> Nobody. Let me talk about my suspension

[3:50] helmet. We don't care about your That's

[3:52] your That's your problem. But you have

[3:54] choice words about uh the NFL in you

[3:59] know the late 1970s and early 80s versus

[4:02] the NFL today. You just want a Bill

[4:03] Maher and you you were you didn't edit

[4:05] your your thoughts on the differences.

[4:08] So what was great about back then that's

[4:11] missing today and what's better about

[4:13] today in the NFL versus your time?

[4:16] >> What what is missing is pretty obvious.

[4:19] the um

[4:21] um the compact the the the viciousness

[4:26] of it um physical very physical

[4:31] rules didn't protect anybody

[4:36] yeah there was no rules there was I

[4:38] don't recall rules

[4:41] >> being enforced or being um

[4:45] brought up to protect anybody body. It

[4:49] was um you know a holding penalty. I

[4:53] mean pass interference back then I mean

[4:56] it was pass interference. You didn't

[4:58] have to say it was a total collision. So

[5:01] I think I I think the aspect of it being

[5:04] more physical

[5:05] um is definitely

[5:09] uh the one thing that stands out. And

[5:11] let's understand one thing.

[5:14] What was so appealing about the NFL is

[5:17] is the viciousness of it, the gladiator

[5:20] of it. That's what is so appealing.

[5:23] Remember networks used to show the

[5:25] greatest hits of the week. And it was

[5:27] just like holy cow. You see that?

[5:31] >> There was no awareness of CTE or any

[5:37] we can have a romantic kind of

[5:38] relationship with that. But like was

[5:40] that good?

[5:41] >> You know, I mean, I'm sure you we were

[5:43] plenty of friends that have suffered

[5:45] later in life as a result of that

[5:47] gladiator.

[5:48] >> I played with Mike Webster.

[5:51] >> Um,

[5:53] >> but

[5:55] you asked me a question. the

[5:57] physicalness, the physical

[6:00] uh NFL in this heck 50s, 60s,7s,

[6:07] uh ' 80s is the rules started coming

[6:09] into play. Um

[6:12] but that's what was so great about him.

[6:14] People ask me all the time, all the man,

[6:16] what was it like to get hit by so and

[6:18] so? And I, well, you know,

[6:20] those guys don't hurt you as much as the

[6:22] guy you don't see. the guy you don't see

[6:24] that gets a clean shot at you. That's

[6:26] the one that hurts. Not the guy that

[6:28] weighs, you know, I didn't play against

[6:30] 300 lb guys or played with linemen that

[6:33] weigh 300 lb on the average. We had no

[6:36] one close to that. We didn't play with

[6:39] guys that overall had the great speed

[6:42] that they had that they 44 was very

[6:44] common. That was an occasional 4-3.

[6:48] But the the [clears throat] degree of

[6:50] athleticism

[6:50] >> toughness of the game,

[6:52] >> toughness versus the techdriven

[6:54] athleticism of today.

[6:56] >> So you take you take that part of the

[6:59] NFL and then you come forward. Now you

[7:04] have injuries. Now you have people

[7:07] getting See, we couldn't move

[7:08] [clears throat] either. We couldn't go

[7:10] anywhere.

[7:11] >> You're a Steeler. You stayed a Steeler

[7:12] unless they cut you or traded you. You

[7:14] weren't going anywhere.

[7:16] >> Nowhere. you couldn't go anywhere.

[7:18] >> That's the big

[7:20] >> that's that's a huge huge difference.

[7:21] And I think that's that's played out

[7:24] over culture at large. Like look at

[7:27] movies. They used to go into the theater

[7:29] and they would get, you know, six weeks

[7:32] to develop an audience before getting

[7:34] pulled from the theaters. And now if

[7:35] they don't have a good opening weekend,

[7:36] they're gone.

[7:37] >> Yeah.

[7:37] >> What's the average lifespan of the

[7:39] typical NFL player? It's not very long.

[7:42] They go into every game worried about

[7:43] getting cut or traded. you weren't

[7:45] allowed to like cook for a while and

[7:48] develop your, you know, kind of skill

[7:50] over time. And this comes across in the

[7:52] book like you you you had all these

[7:53] obstacles like it's not like just you

[7:56] hit it hard and were great from the

[7:57] get-go. you're you're on the bench and

[8:00] all that kind of stuff, but you were

[8:01] allowed to develop

[8:02] >> because I'm just about to say that

[8:05] because

[8:08] of the the short rope now players come

[8:13] out and be a first pick in the draft or

[8:15] the first pick now in two years. Look

[8:18] what happened to the quarterback in

[8:20] Minnesota from Michigan. First round

[8:22] pick, eighth eighth eighth eighth in the

[8:24] draft, I think, something like that. Now

[8:26] he's third turning. Now they're talking

[8:27] about where can he revive his career. I

[8:30] came out the first pick in the draft and

[8:32] I struggled.

[8:34] >> Mhm.

[8:34] >> Struggled.

[8:36] And it took me

[8:39] my first year horrific. Second year a

[8:41] little bit better. Third year, you know,

[8:44] getting more comfortable with running

[8:45] the offense. Fourth year definitely much

[8:48] better. [gasps and sighs]

[8:49] Today I wouldn't have made it.

[8:51] >> I would have been gone. I would have

[8:53] been gone because I had to grow up. I

[8:54] had to mature. I had to get used to

[8:57] being booed. I never was booed. I had

[8:59] to, you know, I had a tough coach. I We

[9:03] didn't have a coordinator. Had no

[9:04] offensive coordinator. We had no

[9:06] quarterback coach. We had uh we called

[9:09] our own plays. We didn't have, you know,

[9:11] a placard on our on [clears throat] our

[9:13] wrists. We it it was all in our in our

[9:16] hands. And so it was a lot of pressure.

[9:21] And

[9:23] now as the league from the 70s evolved

[9:27] with the West Coast offense getting rid

[9:29] of the ball quicker, Joe Montana then uh

[9:33] Bill Walsh's offense, Corell's offense,

[9:36] and San Diego uh and and it was fun to

[9:39] watch and more and more and more and

[9:41] more and more. And now we've got a game

[9:43] where in the last I would say 25 years

[9:46] has been fun. a lot of passing, a lot of

[9:49] this, a lot of that. And it it got to a

[9:54] point late 80s going into the '9s

[9:59] rules um and I think it's primarily

[10:02] probably because of lawsuits,

[10:05] you know, and um the league really got

[10:08] into uh protecting a a player. We had

[10:12] players committing suicide.

[10:15] um their brains were um um examined,

[10:20] autopsies performed, came up with CTE.

[10:24] You know, it's a it's a brain u injury

[10:28] disease, call it what you want,

[10:30] >> where players just man, they just lose

[10:34] they just lose their minds. I mean,

[10:36] Junior Seal committed suicide. Mike

[10:38] Webster, uh he just he just flat died.

[10:41] He was out under bridges sleeping in

[10:43] cars. We had another guy, another

[10:45] stealer took his car on the highway, saw

[10:47] a gas truck and just ran right into it,

[10:50] blew it up and killed himself

[10:52] intentionally.

[10:54] So, we had the game had to that the game

[10:58] had to get control of itself.

[11:00] >> Mhm. Um, and I think they've done a

[11:04] really good job, really good job of

[11:08] trying to protect the players, taking

[11:11] the h the head out of the the equation

[11:13] with the hits and everything, protecting

[11:16] the quarterbacks, um, use of hands by

[11:20] the linemen, so on so forth. They've

[11:22] just done a really good job pass

[11:24] interference. I mean, just done a really

[11:26] good job of

[11:29] trying to protect the players. Mhm.

[11:31] >> But the minute the minute the collisions

[11:34] end and the minute you you take away the

[11:37] violence and I love to use that word

[11:38] because that's a great word. That's I

[11:41] mean I think hockeyy's hockey is pretty

[11:43] bad man. That's some bad stuff there. I

[11:45] get a kick out of that.

[11:47] >> Um but when you take all that out uh

[11:51] you're going to take away

[11:53] >> part of that gladiator that the American

[11:56] public

[11:57] >> Mhm.

[11:57] >> you know. I don't know why. Why did we

[11:59] slow down? Why you ask yourself when

[12:01] you're on a highway, Rich, and you're

[12:02] driving and traffic just what's going

[12:04] on? You're looking up. Oh, there must be

[12:05] a wreck in your little computer on your

[12:08] your screen says, you know, there's a

[12:10] wreck on the highways and there's no

[12:12] reason. It's on the other side, but

[12:15] everybody's [clears throat] slowing down

[12:17] to take a look.

[12:18] >> Mhm.

[12:19] >> We We're drawn to that. I I don't know.

[12:22] I don't know what human nature

[12:23] >> the rubbernecking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[12:25] Well, amidst the kind of romance of all

[12:28] of that, you like your words are pretty

[12:32] melancholic in the book about this, like

[12:34] you have a complicated relationship with

[12:35] your playing days. You know, this this

[12:37] was,

[12:38] >> you know, and and and also like a

[12:40] complicated relationship with Pittsburgh

[12:42] and Three Rivers Stadium and, you know,

[12:44] it's not what people think like

[12:47] >> it was difficult for you, the booing

[12:49] and, you know, getting benched and this

[12:51] challenging, you know, relationship with

[12:53] the coach and and all of that. It isn't

[12:55] what people might imagine like, oh this

[12:59] Super Bowl MVP for Super, you know, all

[13:01] of it,

[13:01] >> right?

[13:01] >> That was that was the most

[13:06] complicated relationship that was kept

[13:10] private for the most part, my mine with

[13:13] with um Chuck Null to a point where it's

[13:17] unfortunate because when I started

[13:19] talking about it, people said exactly

[13:20] what you just said. Oh,

[13:24] we win Super Bowls. It It ought to be

[13:27] great. And

[13:29] And the problem wasn't

[13:32] Pittsburgh [snorts] and it wasn't Chuck

[13:34] Null.

[13:36] It was me because I had I was the one

[13:38] that had to grow up. I had to grow up.

[13:41] Now,

[13:43] >> once I once I was able to control me,

[13:47] >> which took a long time by the way,

[13:49] >> then how you doing with that now? I'm

[13:52] doing good. [laughter] Okay. Then then

[13:54] then the relationship

[13:57] uh didn't bother me and I didn't care if

[14:01] he didn't like me. I didn't care. I

[14:03] mean, I weren't afraid of him anymore.

[14:04] Once I once I lost that fear of him,

[14:08] then then I was fine. But still but

[14:11] still, anytime I was in his presence or

[14:14] I [laughter]

[14:15] >> But there's coaching there's coaching

[14:17] lessons in this too. Like part of it

[14:19] Yes. is you growing up and taking

[14:21] responsibility for how you're composing

[14:23] yourself in the midst of this situation.

[14:25] >> You [laughter] got to know, Rich. You

[14:26] got to know what you got to know what

[14:29] you you got to know in adversity. What

[14:31] do you respond to? How do you respond?

[14:34] Um some people Joe name [snorts]

[14:40] Joe didn't even face him. Bothered me.

[14:42] I'm It bothered me. I see like the

[14:45] little boy Terry who could have used a

[14:49] coach who was motivating him with a

[14:52] positive encouragement rather than that

[14:54] philosophy, you know, of the time which

[14:56] was tear them down, don't show them any

[14:58] love. This is how you harden somebody

[15:00] up, right?

[15:01] >> Uh I don't I've had coaches like that in

[15:03] the past like this is not the way to,

[15:06] you know, develop uh an athlete to have

[15:09] a relationship with mastery over time.

[15:12] You know what I mean?

[15:13] I I think that

[15:15] >> coaching has advanced quite a bit since

[15:16] then and I would hope that most coaches

[15:18] now understand uh understand this but

[15:21] you know in the 70s like this wasn't the

[15:24] case. It was you know kind of a drill

[15:26] sergeant um way of

[15:30] >> motivation that that really is a uh uh

[15:34] not a good long-term

[15:37] >> strategy. You know what? You know what

[15:39] you respond to as a as a grown-up, as a

[15:42] man. I learned

[15:45] [sighs] what I I I learned and then I

[15:47] compared

[15:49] what I respond to. If you if you love if

[15:54] you love me up,

[15:56] I'm I'm I'm yours forever. I'll do

[16:00] anything for you. I'll run through

[16:01] walls. I Nothing Nothing will stop me.

[16:05] I'll I'll perform like you've never I

[16:07] want you to be happy with me and pleased

[16:09] with me and because you you show me love

[16:13] and you're kind and I'm I totally

[16:16] understand I'm in a competitive world.

[16:19] I'm not oblivious to that. I know I'm

[16:21] dealing with with uh I know what I'm

[16:25] dealing with at with my job is to win

[16:27] and and perform under pressure. I but

[16:31] I'll I'll handle it so much better. And

[16:34] my coach in college for for instance was

[16:37] Mickey Slaughter and he played in the

[16:39] NFL for the Denver Broncos. And he just

[16:42] he just man there wasn't anything I

[16:44] wasn't great at. Wasn't anything I

[16:46] couldn't do. And I mean he just he would

[16:49] not let me get down on myself. And I

[16:52] loved him for it. And I responded to

[16:54] that. And then I go to where, you know,

[16:57] if you don't play well, I'm benching

[16:59] your ass. You know, then and you're and

[17:01] you play scared. You can't play scared.

[17:03] That's that's no good. I mean, it got so

[17:08] bad, Rich. I'm rolling. I'll never

[17:10] forget this. I'll give you one play. I'm

[17:12] rolling out against the Buffalo Bills at

[17:13] Three Rivers Stadium, and the guy in

[17:16] front of me, our our receiver has got

[17:18] nobody around him. I'm talking wide

[17:22] open.

[17:24] And I threw it right in the ground.

[17:27] Right. Right in the turf. Boo. I mean,

[17:30] but they were already booing, man. And

[17:32] it was just like, golly, that's what you

[17:36] call that's not that's that's a person

[17:39] that can't handle pressure, you know?

[17:41] You don't.

[17:42] >> But then when you have when you have all

[17:45] the confidence in the world, you thread

[17:47] the needle and a guy's hand misses it by

[17:50] a half an inch. Then you snap it right

[17:53] in there. Yeah. Or also just feeling

[17:56] safe to take risks, you know, because

[17:58] even if people are booing, you know, the

[18:00] coach believes in you, has your back,

[18:03] your teammates believe in you. But there

[18:06] is there's got to be more running scared

[18:08] today in the NFL versus then because of

[18:13] uh you know the realities of of how

[18:15] short these careers are. Even if you

[18:17] have a coach that is reinforcing you

[18:19] with all the positive motivation in the

[18:20] world,

[18:21] >> if you're in the league eight or nine

[18:22] years and you're an NFL quarterback,

[18:25] they're [clears throat] they're already

[18:27] talking about we're going to have to

[18:29] find somebody to to groom.

[18:32] >> Mhm. you know, there very few Bradies

[18:35] that play 18, 19 years or or Mannings

[18:39] that play 17 years or there's a lot of

[18:42] players that play

[18:45] 14, 15, 16 years. Uh but now now it's we

[18:50] [snorts] gota we got to find that

[18:51] replacement, you know,

[18:53] >> and so there's a lot of pressure on

[18:56] these and these coaches and you're

[18:57] right, these coaches don't have these

[19:00] [clears throat] coaches, they don't have

[19:02] they don't have much time to be

[19:03] successful. It's, you know,

[19:05] >> Yeah. They're on the line, too.

[19:06] >> Yeah. And I've said this on I say this

[19:08] on Fox

[19:10] a lot. My one thing is when they talk

[19:13] about, well, this they got to fire this

[19:15] coach, get rid of this quarterback. And

[19:17] I said, you got to give them time.

[19:18] >> You got to let them implement their

[19:20] offer, you got to let them get the

[19:21] players they want.

[19:23] >> But these owners, you know, they don't

[19:25] have the patience for that. You know,

[19:27] they want to get got to get rid of them

[19:28] and bring another one in. And I've

[19:30] [clears throat] always said, when you

[19:31] bring in a brand new coach, you should

[19:36] see some improvement somewhere somewhere

[19:39] in your football team. There should be

[19:42] improvement and if you don't see any

[19:44] improvement, you got the wrong guy. And

[19:46] that happens a lot. Well, you get the

[19:48] wrong guy. [snorts]

[19:50] When you reflect back on your life and

[19:53] your career, your successes, the

[19:55] challenges, etc. Like, how do you make

[19:58] sense of this? Like, there's Godgiven

[20:01] talent. Uh you're you're a naturalb born

[20:04] performer as an athlete and as a

[20:06] broadcaster. I mean, you're a character,

[20:08] dude, you know, and you're doing what

[20:09] you should be doing. Like, you're just

[20:11] bigger than life. Um, so you're in the

[20:14] right spot for

[20:16] uh for how you're kind of built, I

[20:19] think, genetically. And I'm sure there

[20:20] was just tremendous hard work and

[20:22] resilience and all the like, but like

[20:24] you've lived a crazy life. It's been

[20:27] interesting,

[20:28] you know? I mean, [gasps]

[20:31] it's been interesting. Um

[20:34] I don't know what I haven't done

[20:41] that doesn't it that's a part of

[20:43] entertainment from movies to singing. I

[20:47] still sing. I still um

[20:49] >> How many albums you put out?

[20:51] >> Five. I want to do another gospel album.

[20:54] I've been singing in Branson. We were

[20:56] voted the number one um limited show in

[21:00] Branson. And I was like, "Oh, that is so

[21:02] cool." And so we took a year off. I had

[21:05] to get hip replacement surgery. So we

[21:07] took a year off and said, "We'll go back

[21:09] to Branson next year. I love to sing and

[21:11] perform because it's a it's another form

[21:13] of entertainment, you know,

[21:15] >> and I'm in my 33rd year at Fox doing a

[21:19] show." And so you try you try I I would

[21:23] tell any young person coming out, I

[21:26] would say try it all. If you get the

[21:29] opportunity, try it all. All right? More

[21:32] than likely, you're not going to be very

[21:34] good at it, but give it a shot. You

[21:37] know, it's it's uh it's kind of it's it

[21:41] may not even be in your bucket list or

[21:42] if you have one, if you even have one.

[21:45] But I just I just tried everything and

[21:47] just you know and the and the thing that

[21:50] that I'm most proud of is that I did try

[21:52] everything

[21:54] >> and now I know that I'm good at

[21:56] television

[21:58] and I can sing and entertain. I can

[22:01] perform so I love that and I give

[22:04] corporate speeches which I love and

[22:06] that's three forms of entertainment. You

[22:08] do that. So

[22:09] >> what what what is the the core theme or

[22:12] message of the motivational speeches?

[22:14] What do you what do you hammering

[22:15] people?

[22:15] >> I don't necessarily think of myself as a

[22:17] motivational speaker. Now I think that's

[22:19] how they book me. Um it's I'm kind of

[22:24] I'm I'm down to being a humorist now. So

[22:27] the title of a speech has been for

[22:30] 40some years is why not your best. I've

[22:32] never used that title. I've never even

[22:35] mentioned it. But I get a call one day,

[22:37] hey we got to give your speech a title.

[22:39] Really? Well I why we got to do that?

[22:42] Well, you know, they we got to promote

[22:44] what way I'm promoting came up with.

[22:46] Well, why not your best and but I've

[22:48] never [laughter]

[22:49] >> And what what are the tenets? Like what

[22:51] are you communicating in this speech or

[22:53] these speeches?

[22:54] >> Here's the thing.

[22:55] >> No matter who you are, no matter what

[22:57] your position in life, no matter no

[22:59] matter your your wealth or lack of

[23:04] we're we're it's human beings, okay? I

[23:07] don't care who you are. Donald Trump,

[23:09] um, uh, the Pope, everybody is a human

[23:14] being. Everybody deals, uh, with

[23:18] depression, highs, lows, everybody deals

[23:21] with failure. Everybody deals with and

[23:24] and everybody has had some form of

[23:28] success in their life. Everybody.

[23:31] [snorts] And so I talk to them as

[23:34] humans. And I [clears throat] and my

[23:37] whole my whole story, my whole speech is

[23:40] wrapped around human beings and how to

[23:42] treat people and how to face adversity

[23:45] and how to overcome it. And I add humor.

[23:48] I put h it's filled with humor and I

[23:52] like to get out in the audience. I like

[23:54] to touch people. I like to shake their

[23:55] hand. I no matter how big the crowd is.

[23:58] So the whole the whole speech is based

[24:00] on the human being. And

[24:04] >> because I'm look I I'll talk to a banker

[24:07] on this Monday's speech and then Tuesday

[24:09] I'm talking to engineers. Wednesday I'm

[24:12] talking to farmers. Then Thursday I'm

[24:14] talking to brain surgeons. All four

[24:17] different all four different but they're

[24:19] what? Common the common denominator.

[24:21] They're all human. And so you have to

[24:23] you have to you have to strip the titles

[24:27] and walk out there. Now, most

[24:29] intimidating I have been in a long time

[24:33] in giving a speech. I was in Austin,

[24:36] Texas.

[24:37] And who was on the front row? Admiral

[24:40] Bill McRaven,

[24:42] the guy that orchestrated and designed

[24:45] the Osama bin Laden Reed [clears throat]

[24:47] that killed him.

[24:49] He's right there.

[24:50] >> What are you going to tell this guy,

[24:52] [snorts]

[24:53] >> man? It I'm not kid. It tripped me. It

[24:56] >> Yeah. I'm like, that that guy's a

[24:59] fourstar admiral. I mean, are you

[25:02] kidding me there? This guy is smart.

[25:05] This guy is a seal. This guy's been

[25:09] through adversity. This guy knows what

[25:11] it's like to face pain and torture. To

[25:15] get to a positive result,

[25:17] >> the end result's always got to be

[25:19] positive.

[25:20] >> And it screwed with your head.

[25:24] >> [laughter]

[25:25] >> Did you talk to him after?

[25:27] >> Yes. Yes.

[25:28] >> And what'd he say?

[25:29] >> He said, "I love your speech." And I'm

[25:31] like,

[25:32] >> he's being nice, isn't he? [laughter]

[25:35] >> So, even you can have imposter syndrome

[25:37] imposttor syndrome.

[25:38] >> Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely.

[25:42] Absolutely. It absolutely. I mean, I'm

[25:46] not I'm not [laughter]

[25:48] I'm not um oblivious to to facing um

[25:55] fear and struggling with [laughter] I'm

[25:59] going to get through this. That's Bill

[26:00] McRaven.

[26:01] >> Yeah,

[26:04] >> autonomy wasn't something I was thinking

[26:06] much about when I recently got behind

[26:07] the wheel of a Rivian R2 with founder

[26:10] and CEO R.J. Scrange. [music]

[26:12] But when R.J. started talking about

[26:14] where Rivian is headed with it, I

[26:16] couldn't stop thinking about it after.

[26:19] >> What's your latest thinking on the short

[26:21] and long-term future of autonomous

[26:25] driving?

[26:26] >> I think shortterm it's going to continue

[26:28] to get better for us. We get to a place

[26:30] by the end of this year where we'll do

[26:34] hands-off pointto-oint navigation. So

[26:36] meaning you could plug the address in,

[26:37] say, tell it to go and it'll drive there

[26:39] on its own. Today we have hands off,

[26:41] what we call universal handsfree where

[26:42] you can take your hands off, it can

[26:44] drive, but it essentially stays on the

[26:46] path it's on.

[26:46] >> Yeah.

[26:47] >> But the next step is to integrate that

[26:48] into navigation. So it it navigates

[26:51] through turns, obviously, stop lights,

[26:53] stop signs, everything. And that's this

[26:54] year. And then next year, we get to that

[26:58] plus eyes off. So we'll start with eyes

[27:01] off on highway. So you can be completely

[27:03] removed.

[27:03] >> It doesn't It doesn't beep.

[27:05] >> It doesn't handle. Yeah, you can do

[27:07] whatever you'd like. Yeah, you can do

[27:08] whatever you'd like. Wow. The autonomy

[27:10] and assisted driving features on the R2

[27:12] today and the ones on the horizon are

[27:14] just part of what makes it such a

[27:16] compelling vehicle. You can learn all

[27:18] about the Rivian R2. Watch the rest of

[27:20] our conversation and even book a demo

[27:22] drive at stories.revian.com/rich

[27:26] roll.

[27:28] This podcast is brought to you by

[27:30] Squarespace. Some of the most

[27:32] interesting people I've met make things

[27:35] like actual things like ceramics or

[27:38] granola or skin care or small batch

[27:40] whatever. And almost all of them started

[27:43] by selling to friends and telling

[27:46] themselves the real store would come

[27:47] later. Later becomes years. And that's

[27:50] the gap that Squarespace helps close.

[27:53] It's the all-in-one platform for

[27:55] building a beautiful site. And if you

[27:56] sell anything, products, services, or

[27:58] both, the storefront is right there.

[28:01] online payments, inventory, shipping,

[28:03] fulfillment, all handled in one place

[28:05] instead of like duct taped across four

[28:07] different tools. Your customers get

[28:09] something seamless and uh you get your

[28:12] evenings back. And the analytics tell

[28:14] you the truth about your business,

[28:16] what's selling, where buyers come from,

[28:18] what to make more of. That's the

[28:20] difference between a hobby that costs

[28:22] you money and something that actually

[28:23] sustains itself. So if you make

[28:25] something people want, the only thing

[28:27] standing between you and selling it is

[28:29] the storefront. And that's a solved

[28:31] problem. Now, head to

[28:32] squarespace.com/rich roll for a free

[28:34] trial. And when you're ready to launch,

[28:36] use offer code rich roll to save 10% off

[28:38] your first purchase of a website or

[28:40] domain.

[28:44] >> Near the end of the book, you share uh

[28:47] this story about taking on a 14-day

[28:50] challenge of kindness.

[28:51] >> Oh my god. Which, you know, which kind

[28:54] of is is laudable, but also gives you

[28:57] the opportunity to say, "Hey, I'm a

[28:58] human being, too." like this was really

[29:00] this was like the hardest thing I've

[29:01] ever done. And you see and being a

[29:03] people person already, you would think

[29:05] that would come more naturally.

[29:06] >> It was fine. It was fine. What

[29:10] you should tell them what what what it

[29:12] was what I what I was doing.

[29:14] >> Well, you read some self-help book that

[29:17] encouraged you to do this and you're

[29:18] like, "All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna do

[29:19] this. Like, I'm gonna take this on. I'm

[29:21] gonna be kind to everybody

[29:24] >> all day for 14 days. Be nice." Now,

[29:26] you're going to think bad thoughts, but

[29:28] don't say them. Everything out of your

[29:29] mouth is positive, positive, positive,

[29:32] positive. Hey, how you doing? That's

[29:33] good. Oh, I see you just just lost your

[29:36] arm. How's that going? Ah, you look

[29:39] great one armed. I mean, everything is

[29:41] positive. No negative out of your mouth.

[29:44] And I started it in Chicago

[29:48] right off the bat walking down. Hey, how

[29:49] you doing? Good to see you. Which I'm I

[29:51] I pretty much do all the time anyway. I

[29:53] got in the car and the driver's taking

[29:54] me to Wisconsin. Hey, how you doing?

[29:56] Good to see you. Oh, what a beautiful

[29:58] day pouring down rain. Oh, d Oh, this is

[30:00] great. Everything. Hey, how you doing?

[30:03] Oh, it's good. Oh, I don't like you. I

[30:05] never have liked you. Well, I'm signing

[30:06] books. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you felt

[30:08] like that, but hey, I really appreciate

[30:10] you coming. I mean, just take everything

[30:13] and positive, positive. No negative,

[30:17] MAN. I GOT [laughter] GOT HOME. I got

[30:20] home to Texas in 14 days. Oh my god, I

[30:24] was exhausted. Exhausted just from just

[30:28] from being nice. But what is the impact

[30:31] that did that have a lasting impact on

[30:33] you or did you just immediately go back

[30:35] to like I can't wait to be mean to

[30:36] somebody?

[30:38] >> No, I wasn't thinking about being mean,

[30:39] but you know, you're just automatically

[30:41] going to say, you know,

[30:44] >> oh man, what a lousy. This is no good. I

[30:47] mean, you you go right back in. I I'm

[30:50] not a mean person, but I will.

[30:54] >> You're a human being, and it's hard to

[30:56] be It's hard to be any human body.

[30:57] >> But here's the thing, Rich. You got to

[30:58] think about it. You know, you got to

[31:00] think about it. Now, things just roll

[31:02] off just come out of my mouth. My wife,

[31:04] who was always with me, I'll get a tap

[31:07] on the leg under her table and I'm

[31:09] going, "Oh, oh boy."

[31:10] >> Yeah. Well, your superpower is your

[31:12] Achilles heel when it comes to your

[31:14] mouth

[31:14] >> for sure. Right. you're digging holes,

[31:17] you know, all the time for yourself. Uh,

[31:20] but that's also part of your part of the

[31:22] appeal, I think. Like, no one knows what

[31:24] you're going to say, but they know

[31:26] they're going to get you. Uh, and and I

[31:28] think that that that is also

[31:31] illustrative of this theme that recurs

[31:33] in the book around like authenticity.

[31:36] Like there is Terry, the performer, and

[31:38] you know, you talk about like these

[31:40] multiple identities. You've got Roy

[31:42] who's kind of like the dark angry guy.

[31:43] You know,

[31:44] >> I know about Roy.

[31:45] >> Yeah, Roy. Everybody's got a royal.

[31:46] >> I mean, only from the book, not in

[31:48] personal experience, but maybe he'll

[31:49] come out today. I don't know.

[31:51] >> No, no, no. I parked Royy's outside in

[31:53] the car. No. Okay. Um,

[31:57] >> and this tension between like, okay,

[31:59] when you're when you're performing and

[32:01] there's this more like kind of good old

[32:03] boy, Terry version of yourself. Like

[32:05] part of that's authentic to who you are

[32:07] and part of it is like the volume's

[32:08] turned up on that for

[32:10] >> showtime.

[32:10] >> For Showtime and being the performer,

[32:12] right? Like who is the real Terry? you

[32:15] know, at the base beneath all of these

[32:18] this this multiplicity of of

[32:20] personalities.

[32:21] >> Well, I

[32:22] and how comfortable are you in in that

[32:25] Terry's skin these days?

[32:26] >> Yeah. Boy, that's a good question. I um

[32:30] my wife knows the real Terry because

[32:32] she's with me 247.

[32:34] Um and I'm just like every I'm like

[32:38] anybody else. I love I love to laugh. I

[32:42] have a big personality. I see the bright

[32:44] side of everything. I truly do. I love

[32:46] people. I'm interested in people. I'm

[32:48] interested in what they say. And I know

[32:50] when I'm and and I know when I'm on

[32:52] stage, it's time to perform. You You

[32:55] can't tell me that Mickey Rooney or um

[32:58] Bob Hope or Jerry Lewis or any of those

[33:01] great comed you can't tell me that when

[33:03] they went off stage, you know, it was

[33:06] they didn't just go back and keep

[33:08] cracking jokes all the way till they go

[33:10] to bed. So, I I don't think I'm any

[33:12] different than that. But I'm pretty much

[33:15] what you see on television that that's

[33:18] how I approach. I get up in the mornings

[33:20] and I go to down to the barn and I'm

[33:22] loving on everybody. I'm cracking jokes

[33:24] with everybody. I'm you know I'm trying

[33:27] to make people laugh and make them have

[33:28] a good day. I enjoy that is my persona.

[33:31] That's what I like to do. And when I and

[33:35] then when I and then when I'm I get hurt

[33:40] um I'm hurt. I'm genuinely hurt.

[33:43] Um,

[33:45] and then my wife will tell me, "It's

[33:47] okay to say no. You don't have to do

[33:50] them. It's okay to say no." And I have a

[33:52] hard time saying no. And because I don't

[33:55] say no, I get myself into situations

[33:57] where, you know, it bites me in the

[34:00] butt. Um, but I'm pretty much that guy.

[34:05] I'm pretty much a jovial guy all the

[34:07] time. That's just the way I live my

[34:09] life.

[34:11] If depression hits me and Roy shows up,

[34:16] uh, that's an ugly moment.

[34:19] >> And that's when I get quiet and that's

[34:23] when that's when, um, being married to a

[34:26] great woman who knows you inside and

[34:28] out, that's when

[34:31] she pulls me out of it. And that's

[34:35] that's huge. But if she was sitting

[34:37] right there talking right now, she would

[34:39] tell you I'm pretty much I'm pretty much

[34:42] on a high all the time. I I'm a but I'm

[34:46] a smart enough guy to know that uh I

[34:49] love this and I love that and I want to

[34:51] do this and I want to do that and I can

[34:54] I can create this over here and I can

[34:56] create that but I can't really

[35:01] make it happen. So I hire the right

[35:03] people. So, I'm I guess you'd call me

[35:06] the visionary guy. Oh, I the horse

[35:09] business. It's all my vision, but my

[35:11] wife, my trainer, and every they make it

[35:15] happen. Not me. Not me.

[35:17] >> Um, but I know that I know that about me

[35:20] and I know I know I make um decisions

[35:24] just like that

[35:25] >> quickly.

[35:26] >> Yes.

[35:26] >> Decisively.

[35:27] >> And then go

[35:28] >> then tomorrow morning I'll wake up and

[35:30] go, damn,

[35:31] >> would I get myself?

[35:32] >> And she'll tell me. She'll say, "Thank

[35:35] God for her cuz she saved us a lot of

[35:38] money because she'll say, "Honey,

[35:40] I know you want to do it. Let's just

[35:42] sleep on it.

[35:43] >> Let's just sleep." And the next day I'm

[35:45] like, "I don't want to do." And she's

[35:47] right. She's right.

[35:48] >> Yeah. You made it.

[35:49] >> If I weren't married to her, I

[35:51] >> You've made a few bad business deals in

[35:53] your day.

[35:54] >> Yes.

[35:55] >> You know.

[35:55] >> Yeah.

[35:57] >> You've got some big successes now. Um, I

[36:00] think that you are a deeply sensitive

[36:03] person beneath the boulder dash and and

[36:05] and the kind of like large public

[36:07] personality. Like I feel like you're

[36:10] somebody who

[36:12] wasn't wired to really compartmentalize

[36:15] the booing and all of you know all of

[36:17] these kind of like

[36:20] obstacles that you had to overcome and

[36:22] the public's perception of you. It it

[36:24] feels like in reading your book like you

[36:27] were taking it harder than maybe

[36:29] somebody else uh would have in in in

[36:32] your shoes. [snorts] Do you think that

[36:34] that's fair?

[36:36] >> And that's and and you did your best to

[36:39] like, you know, carry on and push it

[36:41] down.

[36:41] >> I had to find a way.

[36:42] >> This stuff doesn't go away.

[36:43] >> It hurts me. It hurts me.

[36:46] >> Um [clears throat] I'm not going to lie

[36:48] to you. Um being booed hurt um

[36:52] um being called dumb. I mean, it kept

[36:53] you from going back to Pittsburgh for a

[36:55] very long time.

[36:56] >> Long time. I just I didn't go to Mr.

[36:58] Rooney's funeral because I didn't want

[36:59] to be around Chuck Milner, but And that

[37:02] just was wrong of me. Just so immature.

[37:04] But that's, [gasps]

[37:06] >> you know, that's me. Um, not proud of

[37:09] it. There a lot of things I've done I'm

[37:11] not proud of, but you're you're spot on.

[37:13] I'm just unfortunately

[37:16] at 78 I still get my feelings hurt. I

[37:19] still long for people to love me. Yeah.

[37:21] Still.

[37:22] >> Yeah. You got you got that gene, right?

[37:23] >> I can't.

[37:24] >> When you were playing though, was your

[37:26] were you conscious of having this

[37:27] motivation of needing and wanting to be

[37:30] like like was your external mo was your

[37:32] was your motivation externalized based

[37:34] upon perception or were you internally

[37:37] motivated by like just I want to be the

[37:39] best football player that I can be.

[37:40] >> Right. I No, I wanted to be the that was

[37:44] all I is all I thought about. I told I

[37:47] people I've had people say, "What was he

[37:50] like in the huddle?" Well, he would

[37:51] change plays in the huddle. He'd call a

[37:53] play and change a play. Well, yeah,

[37:55] that's because I'm calling the plays and

[37:57] while I'm calling the play

[38:00] something. Oh, no. I'm not going to run

[38:02] that. Here, let's run this because I

[38:04] Nobody Nobody called my plays. I call

[38:06] those plays. Those are my plays. of all

[38:08] the things of all the things I have to

[38:10] do in my life, one of the things I'm so

[38:12] proud of is that Pton Manning didn't

[38:15] call his place and Tom Brady didn't call

[38:17] his place and um nobody else called

[38:21] their place. You know, I called my own

[38:24] place. Well, and my buddy, my brother

[38:26] Howie says, "Well, you only had four." I

[38:28] said, "Yeah, okay. I got four. You're

[38:30] going to the right or to the left?"

[38:32] [laughter]

[38:33] >> But at least you were calling them.

[38:34] >> Exactly. I mean, you you're right. I

[38:36] wanted I wanted to be the best ever.

[38:42] No, that's not true. I wanted to be the

[38:46] best that day. I wanted to be successful

[38:51] that day. That's all I thought about was

[38:54] winning. Um I could not separate

[39:00] winning from everyday life. Super Bowl's

[39:03] over. horribly depressed, terribly

[39:06] depressed for weeks. And because I

[39:10] couldn't separate it, I couldn't say

[39:14] Super Bowl's over. Going home to the

[39:16] farm, going to fish, love my dogs,

[39:18] family, plow, cut hay, love on my

[39:22] animals, show horses, cattle, whatever

[39:24] it is I'm going to do. I could. It was

[39:26] right into next year. H [snorts] God, we

[39:31] got to win again next year. Got to play

[39:33] Cleveland again next year. Got to play

[39:35] Cincinnat. Got to play the Raiders. God.

[39:38] And I just couldn't shut it off. And

[39:42] when I

[39:44] I was always looking for a way to shut

[39:48] it off. I was always looking when I had

[39:50] a chance to do a television show with

[39:52] Mel Tillis and it had it been picked up

[39:55] by NBC, I would have retired at eight

[39:57] years eight years in the league. That

[40:00] was pretty cool because we had won four

[40:02] Super Bowls and I like that. But it got

[40:04] me out of it got me away from football.

[40:07] >> Yeah.

[40:07] >> And it didn't happen. I had to keep

[40:10] playing.

[40:12] It It probably shouldn't have played. I,

[40:14] you know, it's it's really a tortured

[40:17] me, you know, but I just The thing I

[40:20] love to do was the thing that was

[40:22] driving me crazy.

[40:23] >> Right.

[40:24] >> You ever had that?

[40:25] >> Sure. It's it's uh

[40:28] it's almost rigged that way. Uh

[40:30] >> it's a disease. It's incurable, [gasps]

[40:34] you know.

[40:34] >> Do you first of all, do you feel like

[40:36] you fulfilled that promise to yourself

[40:38] to be the best player that you could be

[40:41] >> or is there something that you didn't

[40:43] leave on the field that

[40:44] >> I don't necessarily? Yeah. I don't to

[40:47] answer your question, no. I don't think

[40:48] I was the best player I could be because

[40:51] I played I played too much in fear

[40:54] instead of being free. Um,

[40:57] >> talk more about that.

[40:58] >> Well, I was afraid early in my career if

[41:01] I played poorly, I was going to be

[41:02] benched. And [snorts] early in my

[41:04] career, I was benched. And then probably

[41:07] it probably wasn't until the end of my

[41:09] career, my last I would say four or five

[41:12] years where I had control of the

[41:15] situation and I wasn't worried about

[41:17] being benched. But for so many years

[41:20] there,

[41:22] >> yeah,

[41:22] >> we won we won a Super Bowl, Super Bowl

[41:25] nine, man. I I'm going to be honest with

[41:28] you, I was benched twice that year.

[41:31] >> Yeah.

[41:32] >> I didn't even start the whole year. I

[41:33] was I lost my job in training camp to

[41:36] Joe Gillum. He lost it back to me. I

[41:39] lost it to Terry Henry. Terry lost it

[41:42] back to me. I lost it to Terry Henry. I

[41:44] mean, [sighs and gasps] man, that's no

[41:46] way to play.

[41:47] >> Yeah. [clears throat]

[41:48] >> That's like a footnote in history, but

[41:50] that was a big deal that kind of gets

[41:53] forgotten about.

[41:54] >> Yeah. And you know what? Let me tell you

[41:55] something. You don't want to talk about

[41:56] it and you don't want to bring it up.

[41:58] Me, not you. Because people say, "Wack,

[42:02] man. and you want all those words, but

[42:04] when you what you're saying and

[42:06] it's not. It's not. It

[42:10] It's not. And because it's coming out,

[42:15] you know, it's like, ah, it's trying to

[42:17] sell books. This book's not going to

[42:18] sell. I know this book's not going to

[42:20] sell. None of my books, I mean, none of

[42:23] them sell. Why would this one sell? I

[42:25] don't think it's going to sell. I'm

[42:26] going to bust my ass to see that it

[42:28] sells. But if they get their money back,

[42:31] you know, that's fine. But I'm I'm not

[42:33] looking for this book to sell at all. I

[42:36] did the book I did this book for me. I

[42:40] didn't do it for money cuz I'm not

[42:42] making any money on it, you know. I do

[42:44] Branson. I sing in Branson. I sing in

[42:46] Branson for fun. And it's I enjoy and it

[42:50] and and it it it lets me showcase. I I

[42:54] love it when people say, "Oh my god, I

[42:57] didn't know he could sing that good."

[42:59] And I'm like, "That's what I want to

[43:01] hear." It's no money. You put, you know,

[43:05] you don't do every everything is not for

[43:07] money, you know.

[43:09] >> It just feels good. It makes me feel

[43:11] good. I And I think it,

[43:13] >> you know, it [clears throat] maybe it

[43:15] separates me a little bit from everybody

[43:17] else, which I like.

[43:19] >> Meaning that you

[43:20] >> I can do other things. do these other

[43:22] things just because it lights you up and

[43:25] you're not constrained because you're

[43:27] making so much money on the broadcasting

[43:28] stuff. [laughter]

[43:29] >> Yeah.

[43:31] >> That paves the way for all these other

[43:33] >> things that you can do with your

[43:34] >> I mean you wait you wake up every day

[43:36] and you're going, "Boy, I'm the I've

[43:39] overcome so much in my life and man, I'm

[43:41] fired up and people can't wait to hear

[43:43] what I got to say and I'm going to write

[43:44] a book and do a podcast." You do that

[43:46] every day. You feel like that you I

[43:49] mean, you got the last word here. Yep.

[43:52] >> Well, I have I think I have a pretty

[43:53] good gig. I got you. Like, I get to

[43:56] spend that.

[43:57] >> I drove in the traffic to come out here

[43:58] and see [laughter] you.

[43:59] >> You came to me, brother.

[44:01] >> You asked me to come to you.

[44:03] >> Um,

[44:04] >> back [snorts] to the admiral and and

[44:07] back to the day when you got to call

[44:08] your plays. Like, a quarterback has to

[44:10] lead a team.

[44:12] >> You have to demonstrate leadership

[44:14] abilities in that role. Especially if

[44:16] you're calling plays, you have to have

[44:18] your guys bought into your vision of

[44:20] what to do in the moment. You're making

[44:22] these snap decisions.

[44:23] >> So, you are by every definition

[44:26] >> a leader. You have to be a leader,

[44:28] especially to take your team to the

[44:29] Super Bowl, etc.

[44:31] >> Yeah. What's your definition of

[44:33] >> I want to I want to understand like your

[44:35] definition of leadership and what you've

[44:37] learned about leadership roles and what

[44:40] you want to say about leadership broadly

[44:43] because I think we're in a moment in

[44:46] which we could use a little bit of sound

[44:49] leadership.

[44:50] >> Yeah. Sound moral leadership.

[44:52] >> Yes.

[44:53] >> Yes. I agree. Leadership to me is

[44:57] and I've looked it up. [laughter] I

[45:01] looked up the word le leadership to get

[45:03] a definition and it's uh so many so many

[45:09] descriptions of leadership. Mine is very

[45:12] simple.

[45:14] Um I'm going to love you to greatness.

[45:18] I'm I'm not going to My way of being

[45:21] your friend is I'm going to bust my ass

[45:24] for you today in this interview. All

[45:26] right. I'm going do my best.

[45:28] >> I'm feeling it.

[45:28] >> Yeah. That's what I'm that's what I want

[45:30] to do. I want you to enjoy this and I

[45:32] want all your your viewers to enjoy it

[45:35] and in the best ever and I want to make

[45:38] it easy. And that's that's that's me

[45:40] giving to you. My leadership was the

[45:44] same way. I'm I was not a I'm not a

[45:47] hostile screamer. I don't have time to

[45:49] scream at you. If you disappoint me,

[45:52] Rich,

[45:54] I'm not going to say anything. It's I'm

[45:56] gonna it's going to eat at me until

[45:59] finally um if [clears throat] I can't

[46:02] say something to you because of my

[46:04] relationship, I'll have my wife talk to

[46:07] you and I'll tell her, "Golly, it really

[46:10] hurt me when" and and I've even said,

[46:12] "Look, when I'm when I die, will you

[46:14] will you say this and say that? I I I'm

[46:19] all about um moral support. I'm all

[46:24] about positive. I hate negative. I don't

[46:26] like screaming. I'm not going to scream.

[46:29] I'm not going to yell. I'm not I'm not

[46:31] going to berate you in front of people.

[46:34] I had to stand up in front of the team

[46:36] one day and stand in my chair so my

[46:38] coach could chew my ass out in front of

[46:40] the team. How about that? You know,

[46:41] that's going to make me fight hard,

[46:43] isn't it? But I I led, you know, like a

[46:46] lot of people do. I led by example and I

[46:48] led with love and kindness and and and

[46:53] I was always smart enough to in to

[46:56] involve people in decision making and if

[46:59] you involve people in decision making

[47:01] then that lets them know that hey he he

[47:05] respects my opinion.

[47:06] >> So that's that's what I liked and that's

[47:10] what and that's what I give. I don't I

[47:13] don't want you to disappoint me. All

[47:17] right? Because I don't I like you and I

[47:19] don't want you to look I I don't want to

[47:22] disappoint you. I have fired my uncle

[47:25] after 19 years. 19 years and I had to

[47:29] fire him. Should I wanted to fire him 10

[47:33] years ago? I fired uh a manager of mine

[47:37] after 18 years. Uh, and I should have

[47:41] fired him earlier, but I didn't. I

[47:43] stayed on. I stayed on till he finally

[47:46] ate at me so bad it was a cancer. And I

[47:50] I had to get it off my chest. I fired

[47:53] lady that ran my business after 15

[47:57] years. Same thing. It ate at me. It Now

[47:59] I'm the one that came. I mean, that's

[48:01] disease, too. You got to you got to

[48:02] figure out how to have direct healthy

[48:05] confrontation with people.

[48:06] >> I don't want to hurt you. It's the

[48:07] people pleasing that gets What are you

[48:08] going to do? I know. Sucks. [laughter]

[48:12] >> I'm telling you, it's I I It is. It

[48:16] does. It does. It's It's a terrible

[48:20] disease being a people pleaser, you

[48:22] know.

[48:22] >> Is Is it true that uh you negotiate your

[48:26] own deals, you don't have an agent?

[48:27] >> No. Yeah, I do. And I don't have an

[48:30] agent.

[48:30] >> Uhhuh. Right.

[48:31] >> And that's because

[48:32] >> I just felt like, well, once again, I

[48:35] trusted people and they're going to give

[48:36] me what's fair market. you know what my

[48:38] value is

[48:40] >> and every contract I ever negotiated

[48:43] seemed you know I was happy with I

[48:46] wasn't I wasn't

[48:48] >> I mean you say you say like know your

[48:50] value this is like a mantra like know

[48:51] your value I know my value so you can

[48:54] enter into a negotiation and as long as

[48:56] you really know your value and and

[48:58] you're willing to like draw the line on

[49:00] that you're going to get the deal

[49:02] >> uh but

[49:03] >> knowing your value in these other

[49:05] business arrangements with relatives

[49:07] etc. Like [snorts] maybe like

[49:09] [clears throat] you know

[49:11] >> maybe you weren't maybe you weren't uh

[49:13] uh like honoring your own value in those

[49:15] in those dynamics,

[49:17] >> right?

[49:18] >> It is uh

[49:21] look I got nine dogs.

[49:24] >> You know what I tell my dogs? You know

[49:25] what I tell my dogs?

[49:27] >> No, I don't.

[49:27] >> When they fuss and fight over a bone

[49:31] which there and there are nine bones out

[49:33] there and I tell them be nice. I tell my

[49:36] dogs, be nice. Be nice. Tell Be nice.

[49:41] And And I live by that. Be nice. And

[49:44] [snorts]

[49:46] be nice people. We We do get pushed

[49:48] around. We do get pushed around and

[49:51] taken advantage of. And And when I

[49:56] that if I ever am or have been a real

[50:00] it eats me alive. Doesn't

[50:04] bother them.

[50:05] >> Mhm. eats me up. I mean,

[50:08] knowing your value. Yeah. When I found

[50:10] out when I asked the Steelers, I was MVP

[50:12] in the league and we and we'd won our

[50:16] last two Super Bowls and I was MVP in

[50:19] both of those games. And I met with the

[50:21] Rooney family and I told them I want 500

[50:25] thou I'd like to make $500,000.

[50:28] Okay. You know what they told me to my

[50:31] face, my owner?

[50:33] >> What? You're not worth $500,000

[50:35] [laughter]

[50:37] to the Steelers.

[50:40] >> And what do you what do you do with

[50:41] that?

[50:41] >> Here's what am I worth? 300.

[50:45] OKAY,

[50:47] [laughter]

[50:50] >> sounds good to me. I think there's

[50:52] there's sort of a a Jedi mind trick here

[50:55] or maybe a lesson in how to live like a

[50:59] you know a happy meaningful life in that

[51:03] you might have taken a hit and not made

[51:05] what you thought you were worth or

[51:07] wanted to make but this this sort of

[51:11] moving forward with kindness and and

[51:14] being a people person has benefited your

[51:17] life probably beyond what you would have

[51:19] imagined when you or a young person like

[51:21] I think it it pays it it gets it gets

[51:24] paid forward later in other ways because

[51:26] people want to work with you they want

[51:27] to be around you you know all of this

[51:30] sort of stuff so maybe you're taking

[51:32] like a little bit less salary earlier

[51:34] but like you're making it up later

[51:36] >> yeah it

[51:39] I would like good faith with like the

[51:41] community of people that you want to be

[51:43] >> like I know I would long for the day and

[51:46] that well that day is never going to

[51:49] happen where where I'm going to say to

[51:52] you, "Hey, Rich,

[51:55] I won't um I'll come back on your show,

[51:58] but I

[51:58] >> I know you paid your last guest."

[52:02] >> I've never paid a guest. [clears throat]

[52:03] Just don't just so the audience doesn't

[52:06] get confused here. I've ever paid

[52:08] anybody, but go ahead.

[52:09] >> I didn't know you were so sensitive.

[52:11] >> IT'S OKAY. [laughter]

[52:12] >> Trust me. Why do you think I want to

[52:13] talk about people pleasing? Like this.

[52:15] I'm having a therapy session with you.

[52:17] Like, I need to I need to know. Let me

[52:19] change that. So, I've got I'll go

[52:20] somewhere else. I I know that you signed

[52:23] the last guy to do this commercial, the

[52:26] same one. You gave him $10 million.

[52:29] All right. I'd like to be able to say,

[52:31] "I want the same $10 million." And they

[52:34] say, "We're not going to pay you 10

[52:36] million." They go get somebody else.

[52:38] Knowing I could get eight,

[52:40] >> knowing I could get eight.

[52:42] Do I want to walk away from a sure

[52:44] eight? because that's eight I'm never

[52:47] going to make up. Right. And so I'll say

[52:51] I'll take the eight. But I would like to

[52:55] know if and it's not going to happen.

[52:57] >> Uhhuh.

[52:58] >> That there was a time in my life when I

[53:00] said I'm not going to do that. I did

[53:02] turn down one commercial for $1.9

[53:04] million.

[53:04] >> This is the uh

[53:05] >> because it didn't represent my values.

[53:07] >> The erectile dysfunction situation or

[53:09] something,

[53:10] >> right? Yeah. [laughter]

[53:12] >> Yeah.

[53:12] >> Yeah.

[53:13] >> You let Jimmy take that one?

[53:15] >> No. That's a different one. That was

[53:16] That was another commercial. That was

[53:19] $650,000

[53:21] that I was offered. And I said, "I can't

[53:23] do that, but [laughter] somebody that

[53:25] will."

[53:26] >> And they said, "Who?" I said, "Jimmy

[53:28] Johnson." And I I said, "You don't go

[53:30] anywhere. I'll call Jimmy right now."

[53:32] After they told me, "You think you'll do

[53:33] it?" And I called Jimmy and I said, "I

[53:35] got you $650,000 right now. Call this

[53:39] guy. Here's his number." And I said,

[53:41] "Now that's just that's just right now.

[53:44] Now, that doesn't mean that's what

[53:45] you're going to get. You might get more.

[53:46] It's up to you. And Jimmy, you jumped

[53:49] all over it.

[53:50] >> Yeah,

[53:50] >> but I Hey, I just I just felt I would

[53:54] have a hard time.

[53:54] >> That was a Yeah, a bridge too far for

[53:56] you.

[53:57] >> Oh, that's Terry Bradaw. You know, when

[53:59] I'm home tonight Oh, no, no, no, no.

[54:03] This episode is brought to you by Whoop,

[54:05] [music]

[54:06] the not a the wearable health and

[54:08] fitness coach that gives you

[54:10] personalized and very helpful insights

[54:12] into your sleep recovery strain and how

[54:16] your daily choices are actually landing

[54:18] in your body. We know how some choices

[54:20] land. If we stay up too late, if we're

[54:22] overly stressed, we know it will degrade

[54:25] how we feel the next day. But we also

[54:27] make many other choices we're blindly

[54:30] unaware impact our bodies negatively.

[54:32] And for me, it was actually an epiphany

[54:34] to see in a graph how eating late before

[54:37] bed raises my stress levels and resting

[54:40] heart rate while I sleep, which

[54:42] negatively impacts sleep quality and HRV

[54:45] in quite surprising ways. For me, this

[54:47] is huge and hugely empowering because it

[54:50] takes the argument out of my head and

[54:52] puts the data in front of my eyes.

[54:55] [music] how I'm actually recovering,

[54:56] what the accumulated strain has caused

[54:58] me, whether my body is absorbing the

[55:00] work or just tolerating it. Also, it's

[55:03] not only for people interested in

[55:05] [music] physical training. Anybody

[55:06] juggling work, travel, family, stress,

[55:09] trying not to feel wrecked by Thursday,

[55:10] [music]

[55:11] all of you, all of us, we get the same

[55:14] thing. Your body's been telling [music]

[55:16] you something. And here is your

[55:18] opportunity to hear it a little bit

[55:20] better with Whoop. Go to

[55:22] join.woop.com/roll whoop.com/roll

[55:24] for 1 month free of Whoop.

[55:28] Much of my training is done on dark

[55:31] mornings [music] either on busy roads or

[55:33] on trails shared with gravel bikers and

[55:36] various [music] wildlife you're best to

[55:38] avoid. So hearing what's around me that

[55:41] is essential to safety. Sealing myself

[55:43] off with earbuds really isn't an option.

[55:46] But the trade-off has always been

[55:48] accepting [music]

[55:49] every bit of wind and road noise on top

[55:52] of whatever I'm trying to listen to. And

[55:54] the Open Fit Pro, that's what you see

[55:56] right here, solves that. [music] Shocks

[55:58] built open ear noise reduction into an

[56:01] open ear design. So the unwanted noise

[56:03] feels like it's been [music] pushed

[56:05] farther away, kind of like an invisible

[56:07] hand holding it back, while you stay

[56:09] completely connected to what's happening

[56:11] around [music] you. So, you get this

[56:13] focused listening experience without the

[56:16] isolation part. I don't know how they do

[56:18] it, but they do, and [music] it's

[56:19] amazing. Plus, they have flexible ear

[56:21] hooks and soft silicone that keep shocks

[56:24] locked in through a hard [music] effort.

[56:26] They shrug off sweat and rain, and they

[56:28] sit very comfortably under a beanie,

[56:30] [music] which is very important for me.

[56:32] The sound is genuinely rich. It's Dolby

[56:35] Atmos optimized, and the battery runs

[56:38] for days and days of normal [music] use.

[56:40] And right now for listeners of the show,

[56:42] you can visit shocks.com or [music]

[56:44] click the link in the description box

[56:46] and use code rich roll for a discount on

[56:48] all shocks products and it can be

[56:50] combined with other official promotions.

[56:56] Your book opens with some of the

[56:58] craziest ever. I want I want to

[57:00] read [laughter] I want to read I I copy

[57:02] and pasted it here because I want to I

[57:04] want to read it. So, this is very early

[57:06] in the book

[57:08] and this is you speaking. One afternoon,

[57:10] I remember this so well. When I was

[57:12] about 7 years old, I was throwing my

[57:15] torn up old Sears and Robuck football,

[57:17] one that my dad bought on layaway

[57:19] against the side of our garage. Then I

[57:21] go running after it as it bounced away

[57:24] crazily. Suddenly, I realized a man was

[57:26] standing behind me. That was strange. I

[57:28] hadn't seen him coming. He just sort of

[57:30] appeared. He was a compact, stocky man.

[57:34] There was a small gap between his front

[57:35] teeth. He was wearing glasses, a fedora,

[57:38] and a green windbreaker with coach on

[57:41] the front. "Young Terry," he said in a

[57:44] grally voice as if it was coming from

[57:46] heaven. "I'm here to make you an offer.

[57:48] How would you like to grow up to become

[57:50] the number one draft choice in the

[57:52] National Football League, play

[57:53] professional football for 14 seasons,

[57:56] become the league's most valuable

[57:57] player, win three Super Bowls, and be

[58:00] elected to the Pro Football Hall of

[58:01] Fame. Then you would have a career in

[58:03] television during which you would win

[58:05] six Grammys, get elected to the Sports

[58:07] Broadcasting Hall of Fame, make several

[58:09] movies, have a singing career with a hit

[58:10] record, become a popular speaker, write

[58:12] bestselling books, build a few ranches,

[58:14] and race champion quarter horses, and

[58:16] eventually produce an award-winning

[58:18] bourbon. I didn't know what to say right

[58:21] then. My biggest dream was making the

[58:22] seventh grade football team. Wow, I

[58:25] finally responded suspiciously. What do

[58:27] I have to do to make all of that come

[58:30] true? This man hesitated, then took a

[58:33] deep breath and finally said, "You have

[58:35] to work with Howie Long." "I knew there

[58:38] had to be some kind of catch." "Oh," I

[58:40] hesitated, then finally asked. "For how

[58:43] long?" He closed his eyes and admitted,

[58:46] "A long time, young Terry. Decades." I

[58:50] gave it some thought. Then I said

[58:52] forcefully, "Make it four Super Bowls."

[58:55] I know I know that story might sound

[58:57] impossible, but it is as good an

[59:00] explanation as anything else for the

[59:02] incredible things that have happened in

[59:03] my life. Welcome to my book. I'm the guy

[59:06] who plays Terry Bradshaw on TV. So, did

[59:09] this happen?

[59:11] >> Yeah.

[59:12] >> Is this a dream? A fever dream? Is this

[59:14] a fantasy?

[59:15] >> You ever had You ever had something like

[59:17] that happen in your life?

[59:18] >> Uh, yeah, but not that specific or or uh

[59:23] dramatic. Yeah, the whole thing was I

[59:26] played this game

[59:29] hundreds [snorts] of times where I was

[59:34] [clears throat]

[59:34] in Iowa

[59:37] throwing the football up against the

[59:39] ceiling in my bedroom

[59:41] off of the nightlight on the street so I

[59:44] could see and catch it. And I always

[59:47] played games and I always was great at

[59:51] everything that I did. And the coach the

[59:55] coach part was basically

[1:00:00] my opportunity because I always wanted

[1:00:03] [clears throat]

[1:00:04] to meet a coach. I never had met a

[1:00:07] coach, football coach. And it was like,

[1:00:12] wow, you know, here's a choice I've get

[1:00:15] to make. The Howie thing was thrown in

[1:00:17] because

[1:00:18] >> little creative license, but you're

[1:00:20] saying

[1:00:20] >> that's my buddy. So, yeah, it's a dream.

[1:00:22] >> You had a dream.

[1:00:23] >> It's a dream I'm having. And it was a

[1:00:25] recurring dream. I asked my wife Tammy,

[1:00:28] "Honey, you ever dreamed about your

[1:00:29] falling and you like, oh, oh, you ever

[1:00:32] had that dream where you're falling?"

[1:00:34] Yeah. I had this dream so many times.

[1:00:36] >> A recurring dream.

[1:00:37] >> Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I picked up. You

[1:00:39] ever pick up on a dream? Where does that

[1:00:41] come from? How does that happen? You

[1:00:43] know, is that is that strange to you

[1:00:45] that you pick up on a dream? Oh, you

[1:00:47] laughed at Okay, I'll catch you tomorrow

[1:00:48] night when I go to sleep. It's crazy

[1:00:51] stuff, you know.

[1:00:52] >> So, what do you what do you make of

[1:00:53] this? I know you're a man of faith.

[1:00:55] Like, how do you square this recurring

[1:00:57] dream with the reality that became your

[1:01:00] life? Well, before I got married,

[1:01:04] I didn't have anybody to share

[1:01:07] this with,

[1:01:09] okay? I just had myself. I didn't share

[1:01:12] it with my brothers or my parents or

[1:01:14] anybody else. But when I got married,

[1:01:18] I would, my wife and I are so close that

[1:01:21] we talk about stuff like this. And when

[1:01:24] she'll say, "Boy, I had the craziest

[1:01:25] dream last night." Da da da da da da da.

[1:01:28] You're kidding me. Well, I did this and

[1:01:31] and we try to figure out where these

[1:01:33] dreams are going and where they're

[1:01:35] coming from. Her son had passed away and

[1:01:37] and he's talking to her. Um and signs a

[1:01:42] a um all of a sudden a butterfly, she's

[1:01:45] in the kitchen and all of a sudden a

[1:01:47] butterfly flew by her window, you know.

[1:01:50] It's like Cody had just come to say hi,

[1:01:53] mom. you know, and I mean that stuff is

[1:01:57] I mean that gives me chill bumps, you

[1:01:59] know, I think about stuff like that. So

[1:02:01] I believe, [clears throat] you know, as

[1:02:03] a I'm a Christian, so I I can I'm not

[1:02:05] ashamed to say Christian. You say man of

[1:02:07] faith, that's fine. You don't want to I

[1:02:09] get it. Uh but I'm you know in the world

[1:02:13] we live in we um [clears throat]

[1:02:17] we Christians, people of faith as you

[1:02:19] say um I'm I'm a firm believer that that

[1:02:24] as a Christian I my whole the Holy

[1:02:26] Spirit lives in me and things happen in

[1:02:31] my life for a reason and and thoughts

[1:02:35] come to my head which are

[1:02:38] beyond explanation.

[1:02:40] and my wife and I said, "Babe, I'm

[1:02:43] having this and we'll talk about it."

[1:02:46] So, I have someone now I can talk about

[1:02:48] it. So, that so I just believe that I'm

[1:02:51] living in I'm living this short life

[1:02:54] >> and I'm enjoying it and [clears throat]

[1:02:57] the Bible says to be still and listen.

[1:03:00] And if we ever if we ever in this world

[1:03:02] will take time to stop in our daily

[1:03:06] activities and just give some pause and

[1:03:09] just reflect just sit there quietly.

[1:03:12] It's amazing. It's amazing the things

[1:03:15] that'll come in your head. It's amazing

[1:03:17] you to try that sometime. And I en I

[1:03:21] enjoy that. It's a it's a powerful

[1:03:25] feeling. And so the coach thing was just

[1:03:28] this is where I'm headed. This is where

[1:03:31] I'm going. I'm going to have that guy

[1:03:32] one of these days and I'm going to have

[1:03:34] the big guy, you know, my best friend at

[1:03:37] Fox how long. I'm going to have that big

[1:03:39] guy there one of these day. You know,

[1:03:40] that's kind of my shot at shot at him.

[1:03:43] Um, all of this is going to come true. I

[1:03:46] never listen rich. I never as a child

[1:03:48] thought I wasn't going to be great. I

[1:03:50] used to sit in class and say to myself,

[1:03:53] say to myself, looking out a window and

[1:03:55] say to myself, "God, one of these days

[1:03:57] I'm going to be great."

[1:03:58] >> Where does that come from?

[1:04:00] >> I have no idea.

[1:04:02] Per perhaps that's God telling me,

[1:04:04] "You're going to be great. I'm going to

[1:04:05] use you." And

[1:04:06] >> it wasn't your parents raising you to

[1:04:08] believe that about yourself necessarily.

[1:04:10] >> No. No. No. Not at all. [snorts]

[1:04:13] >> You know what's crazy about this? Uh,

[1:04:16] are you getting

[1:04:17] >> in addition to the fact that [laughter]

[1:04:18] first of all that was beautiful. Thank

[1:04:20] you. Like I I loved how you explained

[1:04:22] that. Um,

[1:04:25] >> in addition to just the the general

[1:04:28] craziness of the story,

[1:04:31] >> you found

[1:04:33] here. Well, here it kind of it's

[1:04:35] thematically consistent. Bear with me.

[1:04:38] Uh, last week when I was in I told you I

[1:04:40] was in New York. Uh, I had the

[1:04:41] opportunity to do a podcast with Colin

[1:04:43] Kaepernick.

[1:04:44] >> Yeah. and he's got this book coming out.

[1:04:46] >> Yeah.

[1:04:46] >> And in his book,

[1:04:48] >> he tells a similar story about

[1:04:51] >> when he was in I think he was in fourth

[1:04:53] grade. Yeah. And the the class was doing

[1:04:56] like a time capsule like write write a

[1:04:58] write a thing to your future self and

[1:05:00] we'll uncover this later.

[1:05:02] >> And he wrote like I am going to be like

[1:05:05] he said I'm going to be this height. I'm

[1:05:08] going to be this weight. I'm gonna be a

[1:05:10] football quarterback and I'm gonna play

[1:05:12] for the I'm gonna I'm gonna play for the

[1:05:14] s the 49ers. Like it was it was it was

[1:05:17] wild. Like a full premonition, but the

[1:05:20] same

[1:05:21] >> mindset like this is where I'm headed. A

[1:05:23] conviction in his own potential

[1:05:25] greatness

[1:05:26] >> and amazing.

[1:05:27] >> Um

[1:05:28] >> in a very similar way and these books

[1:05:29] are like coming out around the same

[1:05:31] time.

[1:05:31] >> Yeah. Wow. quarterbacks talking about

[1:05:34] their early childhood premonitions of

[1:05:36] greatness with an insane degree of

[1:05:39] specificity.

[1:05:40] >> There's kind of a common denominator

[1:05:43] here, you know,

[1:05:44] >> which which kind of adds a little bit

[1:05:46] more pixie dust on the mystical uh

[1:05:48] nature of this. The the fact that that

[1:05:50] both of you guys are talking about this

[1:05:52] >> and he became great for another reason

[1:05:55] too

[1:05:56] >> other than just football which he was

[1:05:58] amazing at.

[1:05:59] >> I mean,

[1:05:59] >> and he became great when he stood up for

[1:06:01] his values. Yeah.

[1:06:02] >> You know, you

[1:06:04] >> are you like at liberty to talk about

[1:06:05] that at all or share your opinions on

[1:06:07] that? Do you feel constrained by the

[1:06:09] NFL?

[1:06:10] >> Well, you could you could

[1:06:13] >> I I can answer your question real

[1:06:14] simple. You do what you want to on that

[1:06:16] sideline. If you don't want to stand for

[1:06:17] the uh national anthem, that's your

[1:06:20] business. That's not my business. I'm

[1:06:22] standing

[1:06:23] because I choose to honor our flag and

[1:06:26] our anthem. If you don't want,

[1:06:30] do what you want to do. do what makes

[1:06:31] you comfortable. You're, you know,

[1:06:34] you're your own man, your own woman. You

[1:06:35] do what you, you know, I I'm not one

[1:06:38] that believes in I'm I'm not going to

[1:06:39] [clears throat] judge you. That's not my

[1:06:42] job in this life is not to judge you,

[1:06:44] Rich. I'm not going to judge you. I'm

[1:06:47] not If you're bad and mean and hateful

[1:06:49] to me, I'm not going to judge you. I'm

[1:06:51] not going to do it. Uh, if you don't

[1:06:53] want to stand for the national anthe,

[1:06:54] I'm not going to judge you. I'm not

[1:06:57] going to say you should stand up. I'm

[1:06:58] not going to I'm not going to voice and

[1:07:00] I'm standing. I'm standing. Um, I'm

[1:07:04] going to be nice to my parents. I'm

[1:07:06] going to yes and no. Yes, sir. No,

[1:07:08] ma'am. I'm going to do all of that. I'm

[1:07:10] going to be nice. I'm going to say thank

[1:07:12] you when people do things nice to me.

[1:07:14] I'm going to do all I'm going to be nice

[1:07:16] to women. If you're not nice to women

[1:07:18] and if you and if you put your hands on

[1:07:20] a woman and you hurt a woman, you beat

[1:07:22] her up. As far as I'm concerned, you'll

[1:07:24] never play another down in the National

[1:07:26] Football League. That's a no no in my

[1:07:28] book. Don't you ever do that. All right.

[1:07:30] I I will judge you. I will judge you. I

[1:07:33] do have an opinion about that. I have a

[1:07:35] lot of opinions. Um but I'm not going to

[1:07:37] judge it. Just

[1:07:40] And if you ask me, well, would you d I

[1:07:44] just told you my answer. I'm Colin can

[1:07:46] do what Colin feels comfortable doing

[1:07:49] and I respect him for it because it's

[1:07:51] his decision. It's not my decision. Now,

[1:07:54] if you're out there and you're listening

[1:07:56] to this podcast and you go, "Brat, you

[1:07:58] ought to." You know what?

[1:08:01] Fine. You judge me. You want to judge.

[1:08:02] Go ahead and judge me. I don't care.

[1:08:04] That's I judge you accordingly. You're

[1:08:08] nice to me. Me and you are friends.

[1:08:10] you're not nice to them and they'll come

[1:08:13] tell me what a jerk you are and I'm

[1:08:15] going to say no he's a nice guy who was

[1:08:17] nice to me so I'm going to it's me and

[1:08:19] you we're oneonone here and that's our

[1:08:21] relationship and that's the way it's

[1:08:22] going to be and I'm not judging based on

[1:08:24] what other people say opinions or

[1:08:26] whatever that is not going to affect me

[1:08:28] whatsoever.

[1:08:30] So I think I saw in some interview with

[1:08:32] you that you that you did say something

[1:08:34] along the lines I don't want to put

[1:08:36] words in your mouth something along the

[1:08:37] lines of like you know it is it's a

[1:08:39] patriotic act to you know speak freely

[1:08:41] about your opinion on you know the state

[1:08:45] of the American project. um looking back

[1:08:48] now like 10 years later uh and the way

[1:08:51] that that that you know he was kind of

[1:08:53] treated by the owners in the NFL etc and

[1:08:55] and the uproar that that caused like you

[1:08:58] know I just feel like this is something

[1:08:59] that history won't smile upon favorably

[1:09:02] and [snorts]

[1:09:03] >> um I think that

[1:09:04] >> listen

[1:09:06] >> go ahead you can I don't want to get

[1:09:08] into a political

[1:09:09] >> discussion no no I look uh your taste

[1:09:12] your taste buds change every 10 years

[1:09:15] [laughter]

[1:09:16] >> your opinion about

[1:09:17] You either don't have one, but you do.

[1:09:20] Everybody has an opinion. I choose today

[1:09:22] as I'm sitting here talking to you, let

[1:09:25] him do what he wants to do. That's none

[1:09:27] of my concern, none of my business. Do I

[1:09:30] feel it's unpatriotic not to stand for?

[1:09:33] Yeah, but that's that's me. I'm

[1:09:36] standing. I just told you I'm standing.

[1:09:38] I'm singing it, too. I'm putting my hand

[1:09:40] over my heart. I'm going to be still.

[1:09:42] I'm not going to rock back and forth.

[1:09:44] >> Colin can do what Colin wants to do.

[1:09:46] I've already explained myself on that.

[1:09:48] Um, you look at you look at people

[1:09:52] people have to understand when you're in

[1:09:53] a pl when you're in a position of power

[1:09:56] or if you have a voice in something um

[1:09:59] you better be careful how you say it

[1:10:02] because you are going to ha you're going

[1:10:04] to have an impact on people's lives.

[1:10:07] It's going to happen. It can you can

[1:10:09] talk about President Trump. You can talk

[1:10:12] about President Bush, Obama. You can

[1:10:14] talk about anybody in a in a position of

[1:10:17] power or opinions. Have opinions. You're

[1:10:20] going to have a an impression. I am a

[1:10:23] firm believer in faith. I'm a firm

[1:10:27] believer in high morals. I'm a firm

[1:10:30] believer in being kind and gentle with

[1:10:33] women. All right? I'm a firm believer

[1:10:37] and my relationship is with with you.

[1:10:40] It's me and you and it's nobody else. I

[1:10:42] don't care about anybody else. And they

[1:10:44] say, "Well, so and so, okay, he's nice

[1:10:46] to me." Well, so and so, you nice to me?

[1:10:49] You got to be kidding. Nice to me.

[1:10:51] That's that's where I that's where my

[1:10:53] judgment will come in. But there's so

[1:10:57] many things in in this world that's

[1:10:59] happening in America right now that I'm

[1:11:02] just like, "Oh my god, [clears throat]

[1:11:04] are you kidding me? Can Can we not get

[1:11:08] along? The left and the right and the

[1:11:10] left's got a better idea." And the

[1:11:12] right, they know it's a good idea, but

[1:11:14] they're not going to go along with

[1:11:16] because that's not the party. And then

[1:11:18] the right's got something, but the

[1:11:19] left's not going to admit that's a good

[1:11:20] idea because they might stay in power,

[1:11:22] people will vote for. It's crazy what's

[1:11:25] going on. It's crazy. And nobody has the

[1:11:28] balls to stand up for what's right. What

[1:11:31] is right for people

[1:11:33] >> people human beings out there. And I

[1:11:37] just And the morals I just go.

[1:11:40] >> Yeah. It's crazy. It's it's not only is

[1:11:42] it crazy, it's getting crazier.

[1:11:45] there's all these, you know,

[1:11:47] algorithmically driven, uh, you know,

[1:11:50] incentive based,

[1:11:53] >> um, aspects to how we interface with

[1:11:56] information and entertainment that

[1:11:59] ultimately are driving us away from each

[1:12:01] other in a really unhealthy way, then I

[1:12:04] think we should all be deeply concerned

[1:12:05] about that. Uh, you know, I believe in

[1:12:07] America and this American project. I

[1:12:09] remain optimistic, but you know, we have

[1:12:11] an illness right now that we have to

[1:12:13] figure out how to cure. And it's a ch

[1:12:15] it's a challenge, you know, and this is

[1:12:17] not a partisan thing. It's just like

[1:12:19] we're in this together.

[1:12:20] >> I can't believe that we live in a world

[1:12:24] where we have a leader that insults

[1:12:28] people.

[1:12:30] [snorts] God, I have a hard time with

[1:12:31] that. Insults women. God, I have a hard

[1:12:35] time with I and it just

[1:12:38] >> and I'm so afraid to say it. Giving

[1:12:40] >> other people permission to behave the

[1:12:43] same. Like there's a trickle down impact

[1:12:45] to being in

[1:12:47] >> a position of leadership and

[1:12:48] demonstrating that lack of character

[1:12:51] that denigrates the quality of our

[1:12:54] character as a community.

[1:12:56] >> Yeah, it it is um

[1:12:59] it makes me shake my head. it it uh and

[1:13:03] I'm I'm in a position, as a matter of

[1:13:06] fact, I've never said any of this before

[1:13:08] because you know why? Because if you

[1:13:11] pick a side, you lose the other side.

[1:13:13] There are 350 million Americans and if

[1:13:16] you split them down the middle, that's

[1:13:18] 175 million,

[1:13:21] >> right?

[1:13:22] >> Yeah. If I don't want to lose 175.

[1:13:24] >> Of course not. Of course not. But but

[1:13:26] you're somebody like listen in reading

[1:13:28] your book and everything I know about

[1:13:29] you like integrity is really important

[1:13:31] to you.

[1:13:32] >> Oh, it's huge.

[1:13:32] >> And so, you know, it doesn't have to be

[1:13:35] a political or a partisan issue to just

[1:13:37] speak about why you think integrity

[1:13:40] >> and having like an ethical center is

[1:13:43] important character attribute. Like why

[1:13:44] do we even have to like sell this?

[1:13:46] >> Why are we even talking about it? I

[1:13:48] don't know. It ought to be ingrained in

[1:13:50] a given in in the American culture that

[1:13:53] >> you treat people with respect. Respect.

[1:13:55] Oh, you can dis disagree all you want

[1:13:57] to, but be show respect. And we've we've

[1:14:01] lost that. And we all know when we do

[1:14:05] business with certain people that we're

[1:14:07] going to walk away going, golly, you

[1:14:10] know, I'm not ever doing business with

[1:14:12] that person again. I used to sell cars.

[1:14:14] >> Mhm.

[1:14:15] >> And I used car. That's how you got your

[1:14:17] first ranch, right? Cuz you weren't like

[1:14:19] What was your salary when you were in

[1:14:21] those early days?

[1:14:22] >> $25,000.

[1:14:23] >> Yeah. So, you you had to hustle in the

[1:14:25] offseason.

[1:14:26] >> Yeah. I went back after my rookie year

[1:14:28] and took one class to graduate. I was so

[1:14:31] mad I didn't graduate with my class. And

[1:14:33] I went to my dean and said, "You've been

[1:14:36] sending me all over the state and

[1:14:38] neighboring states to recruit students."

[1:14:41] So, I had to reduce my load, my class

[1:14:44] load. I needed one more class to

[1:14:47] graduate with my class. And he said,

[1:14:50] "Boy, Terry, that's out of my control. I

[1:14:53] man, I'd like to I'd like." Basically,

[1:14:56] I'm asking him to give him credit. Give

[1:14:58] me I don't I don't want to Hey, give me

[1:15:00] a seat. Just give me something. Yeah.

[1:15:02] And he said, "You're going to have to go

[1:15:04] talk to Dr. Taylor, president,

[1:15:07] >> and and talk to him about that." So, I

[1:15:09] did. And so, I went to Dr. Taylor's

[1:15:11] office and I went in [laughter]

[1:15:14] and he's a huge fan of mine. I'm playing

[1:15:16] for Pittsburgh, bringing a lot of

[1:15:18] notoriety to the school. I'm thinking,

[1:15:20] "Boy, this is going to be great. I got

[1:15:22] Dr. Taylor. I'm going to get that

[1:15:24] three-hour credit I need, you know." So,

[1:15:27] I go and see Dr. Taylor. He goes, "Boy,

[1:15:30] well, you've been great for I mean, here

[1:15:31] you know the story. You this and that."

[1:15:33] And I mean, and I know where this is

[1:15:35] going. And he says, "You," he go, "you

[1:15:38] you wouldn't want me to give you credit

[1:15:40] for a class you didn't take. That's not

[1:15:43] you." And I felt bad. I felt bad trying

[1:15:46] to get out of class, you know, try to

[1:15:49] get a free grade. But my ass is

[1:15:52] traveling around recruiting students.

[1:15:55] They were using me. There was no name,

[1:15:58] image, and like nil.

[1:16:00] >> Yeah.

[1:16:00] >> Back then. And so I had to go back. I

[1:16:03] went to Pittsburgh for my rookie year.

[1:16:05] And I had to go back to school when I

[1:16:07] got back. Um, and I went to uh we were

[1:16:11] quarter semester, so I had to go in the

[1:16:14] spring and take one class to graduate.

[1:16:18] So when I graduated, I got even I didn't

[1:16:20] walk across the stage. I STAYED HOME

[1:16:23] selling used cars,

[1:16:25] >> used cars, trucks, you name it. Yeah, it

[1:16:28] was fun. I've also heard you say that

[1:16:30] that people think of you as this alpha,

[1:16:34] like this alpha male, and your response

[1:16:37] to that is like, I don't think that I'm

[1:16:39] that alpha. Like, I'm for the betterment

[1:16:41] of other people.

[1:16:42] >> Yeah, I'm that alpha.

[1:16:44] >> But here's the thing, Terry. There's a

[1:16:46] lot of young men who are in positions

[1:16:50] where they're looking around, they don't

[1:16:52] see a lot of opportunity. we're having

[1:16:54] this loneliness epidemic

[1:16:56] and and there's a certain despair that

[1:16:59] makes them vulnerable to less savory

[1:17:02] influences out there about like what it

[1:17:04] means to be a man. And I think you are

[1:17:06] an alpha in the healthiest sense. like

[1:17:08] you're modeling a certain kind of

[1:17:11] masculinity as a spokesperson

[1:17:15] and the voice of this sport that is

[1:17:18] basically our national pastime and is,

[1:17:21] you know, kind of really just this

[1:17:23] important

[1:17:25] >> cultural juggernaut and so people look

[1:17:27] to you for guidance and leadership. We

[1:17:30] talked about leadership, you know, what

[1:17:32] is healthy masculinity in your opinion?

[1:17:35] I think of alpha. Um, am I alpha at my

[1:17:39] ranch? Yeah, I am. [clears throat]

[1:17:43] Um, it's my ranch. It's our ranch. Um,

[1:17:49] if you mean am I the top dog? Yes, I am.

[1:17:52] I know that. [snorts]

[1:17:54] Um,

[1:17:57] but but being a good alpha,

[1:18:01] I I [clears throat] delegate authority

[1:18:04] and I everybody do what they're

[1:18:07] qualified to do. Um, and very seldom do

[1:18:11] I interfere. I may ask questions, but

[1:18:13] very seldom do I interfere. Um, I like

[1:18:16] that. I like for people to do what

[1:18:18] they're qualified to do without any

[1:18:19] interference and a little direction or

[1:18:22] if I or if they need an answer, they'll

[1:18:24] come to me and I'll give them an answer.

[1:18:26] We [gasps and snorts] in the horse

[1:18:27] fitness, we have mayors that are running

[1:18:29] together. There's always an alpha mayor

[1:18:31] because she's the one that picks on

[1:18:32] everything and gets everything she

[1:18:34] wants. So, we have to take her out of

[1:18:35] the herd, put her over here with another

[1:18:38] alpha male, female, so they can fight

[1:18:40] one fight one another and leave the

[1:18:42] leave all the innocent alone. So I don't

[1:18:46] I don't feel as as though

[1:18:50] as as an alpha guy, a leader of a leader

[1:18:53] of the pack

[1:18:56] situationally speaking. Yeah. But for

[1:18:59] the most part,

[1:19:01] I I pretty much

[1:19:04] am not the [clears throat] guy that

[1:19:06] jumps out front. I'm Look, I did that my

[1:19:10] whole life playing football. I'm real

[1:19:13] comfortable listening to what now you

[1:19:15] may give a an order or d something we're

[1:19:18] going to do and I may not

[1:19:21] [clears throat] agree with it. I'll say

[1:19:22] I don't you know I'll say so I'm not

[1:19:25] going to be stupid but uh at the same

[1:19:28] time I'm not leading the pack either.

[1:19:30] And you know what? Let me tell you

[1:19:31] something. I don't want to lead the

[1:19:33] pack. I like I like sitting back. You

[1:19:36] know I'm comfortable sitting back. No,

[1:19:39] you get nothing.

[1:19:40] >> You get to you get to throw the zingers

[1:19:41] in.

[1:19:42] >> That's my job. But then you're talking

[1:19:45] about the young people today that are

[1:19:47] lost.

[1:19:48] They're they're lost. They they they

[1:19:51] maybe [clears throat]

[1:19:52] maybe they're confused because it's all

[1:19:55] about money. I got to make money. I got

[1:19:58] to make money. I got to make more money.

[1:20:01] And they do. You ever hear the word I

[1:20:04] got to find my happiness. Got to find my

[1:20:05] happiness. Happiness. Happiness.

[1:20:08] No, because it's all it's you know in

[1:20:10] this in this country it's it's we got to

[1:20:12] have money

[1:20:14] assumption that [clears throat] money is

[1:20:16] equated with happiness or that

[1:20:18] >> is it how come we have billionaires you

[1:20:21] can get it right so or just as a status

[1:20:25] flex the only way to feel good about

[1:20:27] myself or to compare to my peers is if I

[1:20:30] you know rise up the ranks

[1:20:32] >> your self-esteem comes from your money

[1:20:34] and your position take away all of that

[1:20:37] and you're basically a nobody. You're

[1:20:40] struggling, you know. What about me?

[1:20:42] What about me? I'm the I'm I You're

[1:20:44] struggling. Me, I'm I'm I'm a happy guy,

[1:20:49] >> you know. And and you've had you've you

[1:20:51] you've you've endured these identity

[1:20:53] crises in your life. You had it when you

[1:20:56] bunch of them.

[1:20:57] >> Yeah. So, [sighs]

[1:20:59] >> this is part of the hero's journey of,

[1:21:02] you know, living a long life.

[1:21:04] >> That's exactly. You know why? because

[1:21:06] I've crossed I've I've traveled many a

[1:21:08] road and I've gotten to a lot of forks

[1:21:11] and I've had to make decisions and when

[1:21:13] I've gotten there and you said this

[1:21:15] earlier in an interview and you had a

[1:21:17] lot of failures cuz you picked the wrong

[1:21:19] fork. You know, you went to the right

[1:21:21] when you should have gone to the left.

[1:21:22] So, I've got all of this travel and all

[1:21:26] of these miles on my body and all of

[1:21:28] these decisions,

[1:21:31] thousands, hundreds of thou millions of

[1:21:33] decisions I've made in my life and good

[1:21:36] and bad. And [clears throat]

[1:21:37] I got all that. And here I'm sitting at

[1:21:40] this table, 78 years of age with three

[1:21:42] girls and grandkids and a wife,

[1:21:45] beautiful wife. And I'm still, you know,

[1:21:49] still making decisions, still trying to

[1:21:52] figure out how much longer am I going to

[1:21:53] be doing the television, still wondering

[1:21:56] will I still be able to give speeches,

[1:21:58] still wondering, can I promote this

[1:21:59] book? Still wondering, will they come

[1:22:01] see me at Branson? I mean, it's

[1:22:03] >> Mhm.

[1:22:04] >> you know, [clears throat and laughter]

[1:22:05] it's still there.

[1:22:07] >> Yeah. You can handle it.

[1:22:08] >> You don't transcend it, but you have

[1:22:11] enough experience to know how to

[1:22:13] navigate it. Yeah. And

[1:22:14] >> so with respect to the part of my

[1:22:16] question about the message to

[1:22:18] >> young people,

[1:22:19] >> the younger male or young people in

[1:22:21] general who are confused about the world

[1:22:23] and you know maybe not seeing

[1:22:25] opportunity for themselves like what is

[1:22:27] it that you want them to understand

[1:22:29] about what you've learned along your

[1:22:31] path?

[1:22:31] >> Well, first of all, you got me rubbing

[1:22:33] my head over here, Rich.

[1:22:34] >> This is my job.

[1:22:35] >> I know. But first of all,

[1:22:38] you first of all, you got to you got to

[1:22:42] sit down and have a talk with yourself

[1:22:43] and ask yourself, what is it? You know,

[1:22:47] where what is my gift? Everybody's got a

[1:22:50] gift. What's my gift? What is my purpose

[1:22:52] in this life? What is it that I love

[1:22:57] doing? All right. Now,

[1:23:01] I got to I got to take a step. I got a

[1:23:03] leap of faith and I got to go after it.

[1:23:06] And that doesn't mean look you think you

[1:23:09] think Sam Walmart Sam Walden [snorts]

[1:23:12] had that one little store and he said

[1:23:15] man if I had two stores I could buy my

[1:23:18] groceries cheaper and I would could sell

[1:23:22] twice as many groceries and I'd make a

[1:23:25] little bit more money and I could pass a

[1:23:27] little bit of a savings on the customer

[1:23:29] and they'll like me and they'll just

[1:23:31] keep coming here and they won't go

[1:23:33] there. Then he says, "Golly, if I had 10

[1:23:35] stores, then I could do a radio

[1:23:37] commercial because then I'd have the

[1:23:39] support out there and I could spend my

[1:23:41] money for 10." Oh, wait a minute. What

[1:23:44] if I have a hundred stores and what if I

[1:23:46] call them Walmart? There you Well, now

[1:23:51] now now I got a 100 stores and I'm

[1:23:54] buying all this produce and all these

[1:23:56] all these supplies that I'm going to

[1:23:58] sell and I'm getting them even cheaper

[1:24:00] and I'm selling them out to a hundred

[1:24:02] stores and so I'm get I'm getting in all

[1:24:05] these people and I can pass on the

[1:24:07] savings to them and I'm still making

[1:24:09] more money than I ever dreamed. What if

[1:24:11] I have a thousand? And here we go. But

[1:24:15] it started with one thought. What if I

[1:24:18] had two stores? All right. So, what if I

[1:24:20] have what if I'm sitting out there? I

[1:24:23] just graduated. Let's forget college

[1:24:25] because I don't think college is meant

[1:24:27] for everybody. Certainly. Let's say

[1:24:29] you're sitting out there and you got to

[1:24:31] ask yourself, you know, am I good with

[1:24:33] my hands? Am I good sewing? Am I good

[1:24:35] playing a guitar? Am I am I am I good in

[1:24:38] the community? Would I be a good

[1:24:40] community servant? Um would I be a good

[1:24:43] salesperson? Uh where could I get a job

[1:24:45] selling? What if I Oh, I got a good

[1:24:47] voice. Maybe I could do radio, you know?

[1:24:49] So, how do I get How do I get How do I

[1:24:52] make a plan, but you got to find out

[1:24:54] what it is you want to do? What what you

[1:24:56] can't go to bed at night and not and not

[1:24:59] look forward to getting up the next day

[1:25:01] because there's something exciting out

[1:25:03] there waiting for you.

[1:25:04] >> And it's and don't put a dollar sign on

[1:25:07] it. Put your heart sign on it and say,

[1:25:10] "Okay, this is going to make me happy. I

[1:25:12] you know, that's what that's what you

[1:25:14] want out of life." But when you get to

[1:25:16] the end of the day is, are you happy

[1:25:18] with yourself? Are you happy? You know,

[1:25:21] how do you feel? I mean I mean it to me

[1:25:24] that's a pretty simple thing to do. I

[1:25:26] can honestly tell you

[1:25:27] >> I love going my wife and I, we love

[1:25:30] going to bed. We'll go to bed at 5:30 in

[1:25:31] the afternoon and get in bed and we'll

[1:25:33] go, "This is great. Oh man, THIS FEELS

[1:25:36] GOOD." AND GET all the dogs in bed. We

[1:25:37] prop ourselves up. We put on a show we

[1:25:40] want to binge watch it or something and

[1:25:43] we just love it. And we're both like,

[1:25:45] you know, what are we going to do

[1:25:46] tomorrow? What's a And we can't wait to

[1:25:48] get up the next day. And we get off. We

[1:25:50] get off in our journey and and we go

[1:25:52] together. Let's go here. Let's go there.

[1:25:54] Let's go do this. Go do that.

[1:25:57] And it's it's man, it's just you you got

[1:26:00] to have a plan. You you got to sit down

[1:26:02] and have a plan. But it has to be

[1:26:04] realistic,

[1:26:05] you know? You have to you know your

[1:26:07] value. You know, you know your talents.

[1:26:11] All right. and and so so march on, you

[1:26:16] know, take the bull by the horn, as they

[1:26:18] say, or whatever. But, you know, you're

[1:26:20] not going to start at the top no matter

[1:26:22] where you go. You're going to start at

[1:26:23] the bottom, which is good. I've got this

[1:26:26] friend, Steven Presfield. He's an

[1:26:28] author, uh, and he wrote this remarkable

[1:26:31] book called The War of Art. It's kind of

[1:26:33] about creativity and how to be a

[1:26:35] professional and overcome

[1:26:36] procrastination, etc. But he has this

[1:26:38] great saying which is life is short but

[1:26:40] it's also long.

[1:26:42] Meaning you have to get up out of bed

[1:26:45] and get after it. No one owes you

[1:26:46] anything and there is a sense of urgency

[1:26:50] in in having a plan about your life and

[1:26:52] executing it while also understanding

[1:26:54] that life is long and you don't have to

[1:26:56] build your empire in a day. It's about

[1:26:59] what can you do today that's going to

[1:27:01] move the ball forward. to your point of

[1:27:03] the first store, you know, he's not he's

[1:27:05] not he's not executing on building his

[1:27:08] empire, Sam Walton, you know, before he,

[1:27:10] you know, builds that first store and

[1:27:12] it's working properly, right? And I

[1:27:13] think people

[1:27:15] >> get really caught up comparing

[1:27:17] themselves to successful people and

[1:27:19] thinking that it happened rapidly. And

[1:27:22] in your book, it's just one of a zillion

[1:27:23] examples of showing like no, it didn't.

[1:27:25] Like this is just pothole and messy and

[1:27:29] you know, like all of it, right? like

[1:27:30] this path to greatness that we imagine

[1:27:32] in other people because we're projecting

[1:27:34] our own aspirations or jealousy or envy

[1:27:38] or entitlement on, you know, people who

[1:27:41] are avatars like yourself who represent

[1:27:43] a certain um definition of what it means

[1:27:46] to be successful. And it just doesn't

[1:27:48] work that way.

[1:27:49] >> Yeah. You look at me and you see the end

[1:27:50] result.

[1:27:51] >> Yeah. You see the end result. And you

[1:27:53] also see a guy who's just like brimming

[1:27:55] with enthusiasm and you're talking about

[1:27:56] how excited you are to go to bed at 5:30

[1:27:58] and wake up the next day. And what gets

[1:28:00] lost in in that as powerful and as

[1:28:03] motivating as that little speech is that

[1:28:05] you just gave is the fact that you also

[1:28:08] were diagnosed with clinical depression

[1:28:10] and you mentioned the anxiety before and

[1:28:13] like [laughter] your mental health

[1:28:14] journey you know isn't like oh I just

[1:28:17] automatically wake up out of bed and

[1:28:18] feel this way every single day. So talk

[1:28:20] a little bit about that part of your

[1:28:24] life journey. This whole

[1:28:25] >> I would want everybody I I will talk

[1:28:27] about that but I would I would want

[1:28:29] everybody to know you're not looking Now

[1:28:31] you look at me now and you see what all

[1:28:33] I've accomplished and you go wow he's

[1:28:36] really blessed. I really worked

[1:28:39] I worked really hard years upon years

[1:28:44] day in and day out with a football in my

[1:28:47] hand to perfect throwing it. also with a

[1:28:50] microphone in your hand. Like you tell

[1:28:51] all these stories about you were a

[1:28:53] disaster when you started.

[1:28:56] >> They exiled you to they literally exiled

[1:28:58] you to Siberia like Alaska to cover the

[1:29:00] Idida cuz they're like this guy can't do

[1:29:03] football.

[1:29:04] >> Like oh I thought it was a compliment

[1:29:06] they sent me up there.

[1:29:07] >> Yeah. So it's not it's not like you're

[1:29:10] very gifted at what you do and you

[1:29:11] certainly had a talent but you were

[1:29:13] getting in your own way and talking like

[1:29:14] you had a lot that you needed to learn

[1:29:16] and you needed like a dose of humility

[1:29:18] and to get rightsized but you stayed in

[1:29:20] it

[1:29:21] >> even though you wanted to quit.

[1:29:22] >> Yeah. But I went to the IDA rod for CBS.

[1:29:24] I thought that was they were that was

[1:29:26] like I've been chosen until I got there

[1:29:29] and realized I got here because nobody

[1:29:30] wanted this job. [laughter]

[1:29:32] I go down there and they say well go

[1:29:34] interview all those dog mushers. And so

[1:29:36] I went down the road. Hey, how you

[1:29:37] doing? You're from Sweden. Hey, what?

[1:29:40] Where you from? You Norway? Oh, that's

[1:29:41] good. Russia. Hey, how you doing? And

[1:29:43] I'm interviewing all the I get this guy

[1:29:45] from China.

[1:29:47] And so I said, [laughter] "Hey, how you

[1:29:48] doing?" D. And he looked at me and so

[1:29:53] tell me uh tell me about your dogs. How

[1:29:55] many you got? Uh what kind of shape are

[1:29:58] they?

[1:29:59] Then I realized he has he he doesn't

[1:30:02] understand one thing I'm saying. So I

[1:30:05] went John Wayne [laughter] AND HE GO

[1:30:08] JOHN WAYNE and I went oh my god it's

[1:30:12] priceless. It was great. But yeah I

[1:30:15] thought I was being rewarded but no no

[1:30:17] get him out of here. You're right. But

[1:30:19] it was look it

[1:30:22] it takes a long time to develop your

[1:30:26] skills. I was I didn't start in junior

[1:30:29] high. I didn't just start in city league

[1:30:33] football. I didn't start uh in high

[1:30:37] school, but one year when everybody had

[1:30:39] graduated, I went to Louisiana Tech. I

[1:30:42] sat on the bench two years behind Phil

[1:30:44] Robertson, the Duck Dynasty guy.

[1:30:46] >> Mhm.

[1:30:47] >> That's crazy. You were you were backup

[1:30:49] QB to the guy who ends up on Duck

[1:30:51] Dynasty. So I I was not one of those

[1:30:54] great great great great

[1:30:58] even when you were you still like okay

[1:31:00] then you become like okay well this

[1:31:02] guy's the number one college football

[1:31:04] quarterback in the nation first first

[1:31:07] pick in the NFL draft and then you have

[1:31:10] to shoulder the expectations of that and

[1:31:13] you're not living up to it so much so

[1:31:15] that Howard Coell calls you like the

[1:31:17] number one flop in like the NFL.

[1:31:19] >> That was great. Yeah. And I couldn't

[1:31:21] wait to meet him. You know

[1:31:23] >> what was that conversation like?

[1:31:24] >> It was terrible. It was live on

[1:31:27] television. Monday Night Football in

[1:31:29] Pittsburgh my rookie year and he walked

[1:31:31] out. The number one floppy in the NFL,

[1:31:33] Terry Bradshaw. You ever been You ever

[1:31:36] been so embarrassed or so in shock that

[1:31:38] you're two feet from someone, you can't

[1:31:41] see them.

[1:31:42] Your vision goes and that's what it was

[1:31:45] like. I couldn't even see him. I was

[1:31:48] stunned that he said that on you know

[1:31:52] >> so the point is

[1:31:55] >> it doesn't matter how talented you are

[1:31:57] it doesn't matter how audacious your

[1:31:58] dreams are to live a human life means

[1:32:02] that you're going to face obstacles and

[1:32:04] these obstacles are opportunities for

[1:32:07] growth and developing resilience etc and

[1:32:09] they're character building it's not

[1:32:12] about avoiding them it's about how you

[1:32:15] how you see yourself through to them.

[1:32:17] >> Well, you asked me a while ago about

[1:32:22] depression

[1:32:24] and uh having ADD,

[1:32:28] which was

[1:32:30] finding out I had

[1:32:32] attention deficit disorder was like best

[1:32:36] news I ever got

[1:32:37] >> cuz it explained

[1:32:38] >> It's also obvious. It's Yeah, I didn't

[1:32:42] know what I thought it was, [laughter]

[1:32:43] but it it explained

[1:32:46] um the problems [clears throat] I had

[1:32:49] with school.

[1:32:52] So, that's the the fact that I got

[1:32:55] through I'm proud of, but I had to read

[1:32:58] a book five times to get what you got

[1:33:00] out of it one time. And um most ADD

[1:33:03] people, we have to go over stuff because

[1:33:05] we're reading it and we don't even know

[1:33:07] we're reading it. So,

[1:33:08] >> and this this is This this results in,

[1:33:11] you know, people insulting your

[1:33:12] intelligence and calling you dumb over

[1:33:14] the years. Like, you had to weather like

[1:33:16] a lot of ACT test.

[1:33:19] >> I didn't even know what the ACT I I went

[1:33:21] sitting there in college to take the ACT

[1:33:23] test. Um, and I'm I'm going through that

[1:33:27] and I don't know what it's like now. I

[1:33:29] don't even know if they still take it,

[1:33:30] but you put little zeros, you color it

[1:33:33] in with your pencil. And I'm like, oh my

[1:33:36] god, this is,

[1:33:40] you know, this is ridiculous. And so I

[1:33:43] I finished it and couldn't I've never

[1:33:46] been so happy to be through with

[1:33:47] something in my life. And I made 15.

[1:33:51] Now that's almost moronic.

[1:33:54] [laughter] So, I didn't know I couldn't

[1:33:57] go to LSU, which was a blessing. If I

[1:33:59] got if I'd have made 16, I'd had to go

[1:34:02] to LSU because I'd signed with LSU. I

[1:34:04] didn't want to go to LSU. I felt

[1:34:06] pressured to go there. Um, so I'd take

[1:34:09] the SAT test to go to Louisiana Tech and

[1:34:12] I passed that. You know what I made on

[1:34:13] it? You want to know? I'll tell you

[1:34:14] exactly what I made. 46.

[1:34:17] >> That's pretty good.

[1:34:18] >> That's average.

[1:34:19] >> Yeah. It's like it's not like bad.

[1:34:22] >> Not bad. Not great. Not. Yeah. Average.

[1:34:25] Well, I'm average, you know. I'm an

[1:34:27] average guy, but about certain things,

[1:34:29] I'm really smart. And about other

[1:34:31] things. Yeah.

[1:34:33] >> Just like everyone else.

[1:34:34] >> Exactly. So, anyway, then

[1:34:38] then I started having these horrible

[1:34:40] panic attacks. And where did that come

[1:34:42] from? [gasps]

[1:34:44] And then after big games, I'd be down

[1:34:46] forever and just go headaches and

[1:34:49] [snorts]

[1:34:50] and didn't know what it was. get on a

[1:34:53] plane and then have another panic

[1:34:55] attack.

[1:34:57] [sighs and gasps] Um, [clears throat]

[1:34:58] got off a plane. They got me off a plane

[1:35:01] in Miami, carried me off um in a um

[1:35:06] [clears throat] put me in an ambulance.

[1:35:09] And this when you were still playing?

[1:35:11] >> Uh, no. I just gotten out. That's

[1:35:13] through playing. and

[1:35:16] they put me um in an ambulance, took me

[1:35:20] to emergency and the people I was there

[1:35:23] to speak to came with me in the

[1:35:26] ambulance and they got there and I was

[1:35:29] soaking wet

[1:35:32] and

[1:35:33] they're telling me and they're saying

[1:35:35] he's having a panic attack. So, well uh

[1:35:38] um how long's these things last and

[1:35:42] can we get him dressed? They wanted me

[1:35:45] to give the speech

[1:35:47] >> and man, I'm I'm think I'm having a

[1:35:49] heart attack. So, finally, they

[1:35:53] quiet me down and

[1:35:56] these people put me in the car that

[1:35:59] followed the ambulance, took me to the

[1:36:02] convention center, dressed me, and I

[1:36:05] went up and gave a speech. This is not

[1:36:08] this is not that different than you get

[1:36:10] injured on the field and they take you

[1:36:12] in the in the locker room and and

[1:36:14] they're putting whatever they need to

[1:36:16] into you to get you back out there.

[1:36:18] >> Shoot me up. Yeah.

[1:36:19] >> And then then after that after I gave

[1:36:22] the speech, they took me back to the

[1:36:24] hospital. So, I get into the hospital

[1:36:27] and the doctor the doc the [laughter]

[1:36:29] doctor they admit me back to the

[1:36:31] hospital to run tests and the doctor

[1:36:34] comes in about I don't know how late at

[1:36:36] night it was and I'm scared to death and

[1:36:40] he says we're going to have to we're

[1:36:42] going to have to uh do um heart surgery.

[1:36:45] We're going to open you know. They said

[1:36:47] yeah well I I've done I've done no

[1:36:50] tests. How's this guy

[1:36:53] going to operate? Are you kidding me?

[1:36:55] So,

[1:36:55] >> and you're like 36 37 or something

[1:36:58] >> probably. Yeah. Somewhere search 738.

[1:37:00] So, when this guy left and it it got

[1:37:03] around uh midnight, 1:00 in the morning,

[1:37:07] I put my stuff on.

[1:37:11] I eased on out of the hospital. I eas

[1:37:15] down the stairs and I walked and I found

[1:37:17] a store that had a phone. And I called

[1:37:20] my attorney and I told him what had

[1:37:23] happened. And I told him, you know,

[1:37:24] where I was and he ended up getting a

[1:37:28] plane [snorts] down there and picked me

[1:37:30] up and they flew me to Fort Worth to a

[1:37:34] hospital and they put me in there and

[1:37:36] went in and and and ran a thing up my

[1:37:41] thigh and shot

[1:37:43] um dye or whatever it is into my veins

[1:37:46] to see if I had block arteries or what.

[1:37:49] And and I was fine. It was nothing. I

[1:37:52] just had misdiagnosed your anxiety and

[1:37:54] panic are a [laughter] heart condition.

[1:37:55] >> How about that? Huh?

[1:37:56] >> Yeah. Wow.

[1:37:57] >> I snuck out of that hospital. [snorts]

[1:38:00] >> I know that you ended up going like this

[1:38:03] is around the time when there's starting

[1:38:06] to become some awareness around CTE,

[1:38:09] etc., right?

[1:38:09] >> You go and see a whole bunch of like

[1:38:11] brain specialists. Like, do I have this?

[1:38:14] What does this mean?

[1:38:15] >> Right? Um, and that's really when you

[1:38:18] start to like engage with mental health

[1:38:21] professionals around like what's

[1:38:23] actually going on with you and trying to

[1:38:24] get to the bottom of it.

[1:38:25] >> Yeah. Well, I credit my wife with this

[1:38:27] cuz I was having

[1:38:32] kind of like dementia stuff, you know,

[1:38:35] where you can't remember and you lose

[1:38:38] you're losing thought and and

[1:38:42] didn't know what was going on. Um, and I

[1:38:46] was uh

[1:38:49] forgetful, just forgetful, forgetful.

[1:38:52] And and it it got crazy actually crazy.

[1:38:57] So she took me, I went to Yell and we

[1:39:02] did three days of brain testing

[1:39:05] where they did everything to my brain

[1:39:07] that you could possibly do and came out

[1:39:11] from that. And the [gasps]

[1:39:15] uh doctor said no sign no sign no wear

[1:39:20] and tear for dementia. No what else? Uh

[1:39:23] no Alzheimer's.

[1:39:25] Uh CTE you can't tell till you're dead.

[1:39:29] Um so my brain was was you know was

[1:39:34] fine. So,

[1:39:35] >> and the explanation then for these

[1:39:37] memory lapses

[1:39:39] is

[1:39:41] >> I don't I don't really have the answer

[1:39:42] for that. I still have them.

[1:39:45] >> I I don't but I'M OLD. [laughter]

[1:39:48] >> YEAH. Part of that's aging, but I'm just

[1:39:50] curious maybe.

[1:39:51] >> Yeah. you know, in the context of of

[1:39:54] like being diagnosed with depression,

[1:39:56] you know, you there's there's some look,

[1:39:59] there's some, you know, like whether

[1:40:01] mild or severe, like there's some trauma

[1:40:03] in your in your background. And I think

[1:40:06] the psychological scars of, you know,

[1:40:09] the booing and and expectations being

[1:40:12] placed on you and like all these kind of

[1:40:15] things that you weathered over time add

[1:40:17] up and create like a kind of worldview

[1:40:20] or a sense of yourself. Maybe that has

[1:40:22] some relationship to forgetting things

[1:40:24] or or whatnot. But I think that there

[1:40:27] is, and this is really another kind of

[1:40:29] core theme of the book, like there's a

[1:40:32] cost that you've paid to have this life.

[1:40:35] There's the physical cost that you've

[1:40:37] paid of, you know, being in the

[1:40:39] gladiator ring for, you know, as many

[1:40:41] years as you were. There is the

[1:40:44] emotional cost that you've paid by

[1:40:46] having to weather the criticism, etc.

[1:40:48] that we've already talked about. There's

[1:40:50] also the the the

[1:40:53] like existential crit sort of uh cost of

[1:40:57] of

[1:40:58] to your identity like okay now this

[1:41:00] thing ends your athletic career and you

[1:41:02] have to figure out who you are next etc.

[1:41:04] And you lose that brotherhood that you

[1:41:07] thought you would always have which is

[1:41:09] something that you know anybody who is

[1:41:11] in the military and has been you know

[1:41:13] deployed to conflict zones like they

[1:41:15] experience some version of this like it

[1:41:17] is a sort of PTSD.

[1:41:19] >> Yeah. Especially if you're a seal. Have

[1:41:20] you noticed the brotherhood with seals?

[1:41:22] Yeah, that's pretty that's pretty

[1:41:24] strong. I

[1:41:25] >> you know, I suppose

[1:41:28] now back then

[1:41:31] what you're saying is probably a lot of

[1:41:33] truth to it. I mean, I had [gasps] I had

[1:41:36] more

[1:41:38] concussions than I realized. A

[1:41:40] concussion to me is I am totally out.

[1:41:43] That's a concussion.

[1:41:46] that there are a lot of concussions that

[1:41:48] you [clears throat] go, you know,

[1:41:51] >> that's a concussion and

[1:41:53] >> you just got your bell rung. It was just

[1:41:54] you got your bell rung.

[1:41:55] >> You have a lot of those. And so,

[1:41:57] >> but but uh

[1:42:01] they Here's a good Here's a here's the

[1:42:03] good thing about the depression. And

[1:42:05] here's the thing I did. I I I say this

[1:42:08] to the men that are listening, okay?

[1:42:10] Here's what I say to them. A woman will

[1:42:13] more than likely go and something's

[1:42:15] wrong, she's going to go to the doctor.

[1:42:17] A [clears throat] man's not going. He's

[1:42:18] not going. You got to drag him. Um, but

[1:42:22] I went and I'm very proud of the fact

[1:42:25] that I sought help. And it took

[1:42:32] [sighs]

[1:42:34] over a year

[1:42:36] with three different first was my

[1:42:39] preacher, then was my marriage

[1:42:42] counselor,

[1:42:44] um, a psych psychologist,

[1:42:48] and then it was a psychiatrist,

[1:42:50] and the end result was, [snorts] um,

[1:42:54] diagnosed with depression. And and when

[1:42:57] you go in for these when you spend time

[1:42:59] with these people, you go through your

[1:43:01] life. Well, I've gone through my life

[1:43:03] three times, it's exhausting. You ever

[1:43:07] been to a psychiatrist? Hey, it's Is it

[1:43:10] not exhausting? It's ex was for me.

[1:43:13] >> So tired of talking about myself.

[1:43:17] >> And

[1:43:19] it came out and he said, "We're going to

[1:43:21] put you on this drug and we see if this

[1:43:23] helps." And

[1:43:27] I think I've switched drugs once. I

[1:43:30] thought I thought and it was fabulous.

[1:43:34] Fabulous because the the um the big

[1:43:39] attacks have ceased.

[1:43:41] I still get the I still get the I still

[1:43:44] get small versions. Um um I

[1:43:48] [clears throat] thought I wasn't on the

[1:43:51] drugs anymore, but I've always been on

[1:43:54] them. I just didn't know it. My wife

[1:43:56] said, [laughter]

[1:43:58] "You take them every day." I went,

[1:44:00] "Really?" She said, "I [laughter] give

[1:44:02] them to you." So I went, "Oh, I didn't."

[1:44:06] So I said, "Oh, I didn't know that." But

[1:44:10] the key for me

[1:44:12] in being diagnosed with depression,

[1:44:16] number one, and there's a lot I want to

[1:44:18] say about this. Number one is that I'm

[1:44:21] proud of the fact I sought help.

[1:44:23] I knew something was wrong. Okay, I knew

[1:44:26] something was wrong. And I knew that

[1:44:30] when I had these attacks or when I had

[1:44:33] these spells, these horrible spells, I

[1:44:36] re I knew how sickening they were. It

[1:44:39] made me sick. So sick.

[1:44:42] >> And I Oh, I couldn't handle it. Just

[1:44:46] deep, dark.

[1:44:48] And it [laughter] it was devastating and

[1:44:51] scary.

[1:44:53] And

[1:44:54] I I had to get I I had to get I had to

[1:44:57] get rid of that. So being being over a

[1:45:02] year in in therapy and then three three

[1:45:06] actual years of of therapy of talking.

[1:45:10] Three years I did this

[1:45:12] >> a year a year before I got medicine and

[1:45:15] then three years of talking and

[1:45:19] becoming aware of depression and what

[1:45:22] triggered it in my life. you know, I

[1:45:23] know what triggers it. Um, or I know

[1:45:27] what will bring it on. Uh, and then the

[1:45:30] key was my wife knows it. All right. And

[1:45:33] al and I know and I know when it's

[1:45:36] coming on it. It's I know it's like

[1:45:39] watching the sun go down. I can sit

[1:45:42] there and as sun goes down, I'm watching

[1:45:45] it. It's fixing to get dark.

[1:45:47] >> Same thing with this this disease. as it

[1:45:51] goes. I can feel it coming on

[1:45:54] >> and knowing that you have tools to make

[1:45:58] it less severe.

[1:45:59] >> Yes, I still get them. They don't last

[1:46:02] as long anymore. I get and the signs are

[1:46:05] real obvious. I get real quiet. Real

[1:46:08] quiet. Can you imagine? I get real

[1:46:10] quiet. I get uh and I and I isolate

[1:46:15] and she knows it and she she'll come out

[1:46:20] and she'll notice it. She notices

[1:46:23] notices it immediately and then she

[1:46:26] comes out and and and it's kind of cute.

[1:46:29] She goes she'll say to me, "Is Roy

[1:46:32] showing up?"

[1:46:33] >> Mhm.

[1:46:34] >> You know, that's one phrase. or she'll

[1:46:36] say, "Are you is it is are are you

[1:46:39] having your moments?" And I and I'll go,

[1:46:42] "Yeah." And sometimes it's emotional.

[1:46:44] And I'll say, "Yeah, I'm really

[1:46:45] struggling right now." And so she gets

[1:46:48] me she gets me out of that.

[1:46:51] >> Mhm.

[1:46:51] >> I can't sit there. She gets me up and

[1:46:54] gets me out of it.

[1:46:55] >> What [snorts] happens when you got to go

[1:46:57] on the air and Roy is Royy's running the

[1:47:00] show? You just

[1:47:01] >> I can control Roy.

[1:47:03] >> The show must go on. Yeah, that's that's

[1:47:05] pretty much the way it is. I've I can

[1:47:07] honestly say

[1:47:09] Roy showed up one time and so it's

[1:47:14] actually comical. So I'm sitting there

[1:47:17] at the desk with the Fox desk and I got

[1:47:21] my head down [laughter]

[1:47:24] the clip.

[1:47:25] >> Yeah.

[1:47:26] >> And I had these pills. So, I took this,

[1:47:31] you know, took this pill and I drank

[1:47:34] some water and I'm sitting there and I'm

[1:47:37] I'm trying to focus, you know, because

[1:47:40] it's live television [snorts] and I'm

[1:47:43] [clears throat] and I don't read

[1:47:44] anything. It's all comes out of your

[1:47:46] head. And I'm sitting there and I and I

[1:47:50] lock in to the table. I'm just

[1:47:57] how he goes. Hey, man.

[1:48:00] Hey, you okay? And I don't say anything.

[1:48:04] Hey, [clears throat]

[1:48:06] are you okay? And this is what this is

[1:48:09] what came out of the Are you okay? I

[1:48:12] turn to Howie and I go,

[1:48:15] I took the WRONG PILL.

[1:48:18] I took a sleeping pill.

[1:48:20] >> No.

[1:48:22] [laughter]

[1:48:23] AND WE

[1:48:24] >> OH MY GOD.

[1:48:25] >> We We start We started laughing and

[1:48:29] Then you were out of it.

[1:48:30] >> I was good, but I was I took that

[1:48:32] [laughter] sleeping pill. I WAS OH MY

[1:48:36] GOD. HOW I just I took I just I didn't

[1:48:39] know what was wrong with me. I was JUST

[1:48:42] [laughter]

[1:48:43] That's a pretty good one.

[1:48:45] >> I took sleeping, Phil.

[1:48:47] >> In the in the movie of [laughter] your

[1:48:48] life, this scene has to take place.

[1:48:51] >> Oh, it's funny. Funny. Not funny, but

[1:48:53] funny. You know,

[1:48:55] >> depression isn't the only thing you've

[1:48:56] been diagnosed with. you were diagnosed

[1:48:59] with cancer twice. Uh you survived that.

[1:49:02] Um

[1:49:03] >> it's like what's next?

[1:49:04] >> Yeah. I mean, you know, like you've

[1:49:07] you've gone through a lot, man. So,

[1:49:09] >> the depression I will say this, I mean,

[1:49:11] interrupt you just right. The depression

[1:49:13] was was the worst I ever felt. Cancer, I

[1:49:17] think stage three was as close as I got.

[1:49:20] And that would have been with with the

[1:49:22] Merkel cell, the skin, which is just

[1:49:23] really rare

[1:49:24] >> rare. Yeah. uh form of skin cancer which

[1:49:26] is the second one. The first one was

[1:49:28] bladder bladder cancer.

[1:49:30] >> Yeah.

[1:49:30] >> And that was amunotherapy to deal with

[1:49:33] that.

[1:49:34] >> I still have and then you know what's so

[1:49:35] bad about that? Still have to go back

[1:49:37] and you know once a year and

[1:49:40] >> Sure.

[1:49:41] >> Yeah. It's it's like a sliver under your

[1:49:44] skin gnawing at you. [clears throat]

[1:49:46] And even if like okay not stage four

[1:49:49] stage it doesn't matter

[1:49:50] >> who yeah

[1:49:51] >> cancer diagnosis is gonna confront you

[1:49:53] with your mortality and and make you

[1:49:56] kind of think about

[1:49:57] >> you know death in a way that we don't

[1:49:59] when we're just living our lives. So

[1:50:01] what did what did those experiences

[1:50:02] teach you about

[1:50:04] >> about that

[1:50:06] >> like your relationship with death and

[1:50:08] your own mortality? Well, I here's the

[1:50:09] way I I felt. I my my quiet thought was

[1:50:14] if I die, I'm going to heaven.

[1:50:17] Uh how painful am I? How much

[1:50:20] [clears throat] pain am I going to be

[1:50:21] in? You know, that was

[1:50:24] >> you know, and then Tammy was telling me

[1:50:26] she wouldn't let me talk like that. She

[1:50:28] stop it. Stop it. We're not going to

[1:50:30] talk like that. But you're going to be

[1:50:32] fine. You're going to get fine. But I'm

[1:50:35] I'm the one that has the cancer, you I'm

[1:50:38] just I got a thousand questions I want

[1:50:39] to ask when the Can I tell you a funny

[1:50:42] thing about this cancer?

[1:50:45] So, we're waiting on the bladder results

[1:50:48] to come back.

[1:50:50] All right. And so, she walks in to the

[1:50:56] den and I'm standing there and she goes,

[1:50:59] "Honey, I need for you to sit down."

[1:51:03] Well, the last time anybody asked me,

[1:51:05] last time a woman ever asked me to sit

[1:51:07] down, she said, "Never good. Not good at

[1:51:10] all." And the words out of that woman's

[1:51:12] mouth was, "I don't love it anymore, and

[1:51:14] I want your ass out of this house by

[1:51:16] 5:30 this afternoon." So, I told her, I

[1:51:19] said, "Hey, I got news for you. I ain't

[1:51:22] sitting down. You're not going to get me

[1:51:24] there." And she says, "No, the She says,

[1:51:28] um, you have bladder cancer." Something

[1:51:31] to

[1:51:31] >> Mhm. She was much more softer than that.

[1:51:35] But and I went, "What?"

[1:51:39] Then what is what is bladder cancer?

[1:51:41] What does it do? Can and then can can we

[1:51:44] treat it?

[1:51:46] So that was that was the first cancer.

[1:51:52] I and during the treatment, Rich is when

[1:51:55] I I went, [snorts]

[1:51:58] man, I don't know if I'm I don't know if

[1:52:00] I'm gonna make I don't know if I'm gonna

[1:52:02] get out of this. Everybody said, "It's

[1:52:04] looking good. It's looking good." I'm

[1:52:05] one of those guys. Don't tell me it's

[1:52:07] looking good when I know it's looking

[1:52:09] bad.

[1:52:10] >> You know, you you don't want to think

[1:52:12] like that, but you do. You know, it's

[1:52:15] like I I talk about [sighs]

[1:52:18] dying and I I try to explain to people

[1:52:21] when you get my age, it's something it

[1:52:25] pops up. How much longer do I have? I'm

[1:52:28] 70. How much longer I got? I If I got

[1:52:31] 70, my dad was 84. Okay. What What I do

[1:52:34] I have six What? Do I have six more

[1:52:36] years? My mother died. She was 94. Or do

[1:52:39] I have 16 more years? Um, you know, now

[1:52:43] I've had these cancers. And then then

[1:52:47] we're

[1:52:49] checking for spasms. I get these spasms

[1:52:51] in my neck from where I got hurt,

[1:52:53] injured when I played.

[1:52:54] >> So, I get them and they they're painful

[1:52:56] as hell.

[1:52:57] >> And I said, "Boy," she said, "Well,

[1:52:59] while we're up there, [sighs] we will

[1:53:02] have them in Yale. We do we'll do an

[1:53:05] MRI, see if you've got a a a disc that's

[1:53:09] impinging." So we did the MRI and they

[1:53:11] found the the tumor over here. So if I

[1:53:15] hadn't have been bitching about this.

[1:53:16] >> So yeah, by happen stance because of the

[1:53:19] spasm, because of this injury you

[1:53:20] sustained, you were able to get this.

[1:53:23] >> So now I'm saying, "Thank you, Lord.

[1:53:25] This is this is something that I would

[1:53:29] have just, you know, and he said, you

[1:53:32] can't feel this knot." And I went, "No,

[1:53:35] no." So then he put my finger on it

[1:53:37] right there and I went, "Oh, is that

[1:53:39] what that is? [laughter] That's a

[1:53:41] tumor."

[1:53:42] >> Wow. It's wild.

[1:53:45] What else you want to talk about, Rich?

[1:53:47] [laughter]

[1:53:47] >> Oh, I got lots more, buddy. I'm not

[1:53:50] going to hold you that much longer, but

[1:53:52] And this is really my last question for

[1:53:53] you.

[1:53:54] >> Is it? uh you're still this competitive

[1:53:56] athlete who's who's just in in the game

[1:54:00] in the game of broadcasting, living big,

[1:54:02] doing the things that light you up and

[1:54:05] publicly saying like they're going to

[1:54:06] have to drag me out of the the booth

[1:54:08] like I'm going to keep doing this.

[1:54:11] What is it that you're still striving

[1:54:14] for or chasing by living that life when

[1:54:19] you don't have to?

[1:54:20] >> Well,

[1:54:22] I've never thought

[1:54:24] about that question.

[1:54:27] Um because that question has a lot of

[1:54:30] answers. Um

[1:54:34] I I love quoting this from the movie

[1:54:38] Tombstone

[1:54:40] when Val Kilmer Doc Doc Holiday when

[1:54:44] Billy Bob Thornton comes out of the bar

[1:54:46] after Wyatt Herp went in there and

[1:54:48] slapped him, grabbed him by the ear and

[1:54:50] took him out. And then he's out there.

[1:54:52] Wyatt's talking to Doc Val Kilmer, Doc

[1:54:55] Hollywood Holiday. And Bob Thornton

[1:55:00] comes running out with the shotgun.

[1:55:02] And Kilmer's smoking a cigarette,

[1:55:06] Val Kimmer smokes a cigarette, and he

[1:55:08] turns around. He and and Billy Bob sees

[1:55:11] him and he freezes in his tracks

[1:55:13] realizing it's Doc Holiday. And he stops

[1:55:17] and he goes,

[1:55:19] "Well, Doc,

[1:55:22] I heard you was dead." And Val Kilmer,

[1:55:25] the great line, "I beg to differ. I'm

[1:55:30] just reaching my prime."

[1:55:32] That's my approach.

[1:55:34] >> My approach is way too much to do. Way

[1:55:39] too many speeches to give. Way too many

[1:55:41] horse shows to show my my horses and

[1:55:44] breed the next great champion. Way too

[1:55:46] many beautiful grandkids to love and

[1:55:48] spoil. Way too much time to barbecue

[1:55:51] with my three girls and their husbands.

[1:55:53] I mean way too way too much time to be

[1:55:56] on television entertaining people and

[1:55:58] making people laugh and way too much. So

[1:56:01] I don't I don't trap myself. Now I do

[1:56:04] say golly boy 78 I'm going to be dying

[1:56:08] you. I'm dying. My wife says stop it

[1:56:09] right now. Don't break. So she keeps me.

[1:56:11] She checks that with me. But I don't

[1:56:16] I don't have an exit. Is that good? I

[1:56:20] don't have an exit, Rich. I I don't

[1:56:23] >> I don't have I'm not crawling off the

[1:56:26] stage.

[1:56:26] >> You're 110% guy. You're living your life

[1:56:28] at, you know, full speed and and you

[1:56:33] know, and God bless you. You know what I

[1:56:34] mean? Like what more do you want in

[1:56:35] life? Like you've got

[1:56:37] >> a beautiful family. The book is the book

[1:56:40] is also this, you know, not for nothing.

[1:56:43] You've been married a couple times, but

[1:56:44] this is a this is this is also it's a

[1:56:47] book about unconditional love and

[1:56:48] acceptance also.

[1:56:49] >> Well, [clears throat] God did not intend

[1:56:51] for man to be on this earth alone.

[1:56:54] That's why he gave us woman.

[1:56:56] And

[1:56:59] I struggled with

[1:57:01] with getting the right

[1:57:05] woman. And I had to after my third

[1:57:10] divorce.

[1:57:12] So embarrassing.

[1:57:14] I so embarrassed. And trying to

[1:57:19] figure out

[1:57:22] what the hell's wrong with me cuz the

[1:57:24] common denominator and all of that was

[1:57:26] me. Three women but the same me. And

[1:57:31] and so I had to once again counseling

[1:57:36] to break that chain. This is what I'm

[1:57:40] attracted to. Got to break that chain.

[1:57:43] And and and you list the things you're

[1:57:47] looking for in a woman. And what is

[1:57:49] love? What is true love? Being in love.

[1:57:52] What does that mean? [sighs and gasps]

[1:57:54] And it and I didn't honestly think I was

[1:57:59] capable of it. And

[1:58:04] the one thing in my life that's

[1:58:05] embarrassing is when people say been

[1:58:08] married three times. You know what? I've

[1:58:10] been married three times.

[1:58:13] Four now. And

[1:58:17] it was tough. How do you handle that?

[1:58:20] that I know how I younger the young

[1:58:23] Terry looked at these Hollywood people

[1:58:26] that were married multiple times and I

[1:58:28] thought, "Oh [clears throat] man, you

[1:58:30] know,

[1:58:31] it doesn't sit well with me." But I had

[1:58:34] to I had to cut ties with things that

[1:58:37] Terry really liked

[1:58:40] and there was nobody ever going to, you

[1:58:42] know, it just meant I was going to be by

[1:58:44] myself and so be it. And then I met

[1:58:46] Tammy and I fought her for 12 years. I

[1:58:51] just I just was not I was not going

[1:58:56] [clears throat] to get married. I was

[1:58:57] not going to allow myself to think I was

[1:59:00] in love. I was not cuz I did. I thought

[1:59:03] I'd blow this one too. And she was she

[1:59:07] just kept

[1:59:08] she just kept being wonderful. And I

[1:59:11] just kept running away but coming back.

[1:59:14] And

[1:59:16] then all of a sudden I realized, wait a

[1:59:18] minute, the best friend, my best friend.

[1:59:21] We do everything together. We enjoy,

[1:59:24] [clears throat] you know, the horses,

[1:59:25] the fishing, the travel, the golf, and

[1:59:28] she's my golfing buddy. I only play golf

[1:59:30] with her. I show horses with her. We go

[1:59:33] through our horse program together. We

[1:59:35] make decisions together. Um, we built

[1:59:38] she built and designed our home. I mean,

[1:59:41] I finally realized she's my You hear

[1:59:44] that? My best friend.

[1:59:45] >> Mhm.

[1:59:47] >> We've 22 years together, we've been

[1:59:49] apart one day. One day.

[1:59:51] >> Wow.

[1:59:52] >> Yeah. It's pretty cool. And so, finally,

[1:59:57] I had a hard time

[2:00:01] getting married again. I had a hard time

[2:00:06] till one night playing around in the

[2:00:09] living room in front of the fireplace. I

[2:00:12] knew I needed to get on my knee and ask

[2:00:13] her to marry me. So I told her, "I'm

[2:00:15] going to practice asking you to marry

[2:00:17] me, having fun with her." So she stood

[2:00:19] up and I got down on one knee and I took

[2:00:22] her hand and I took her hand.

[2:00:27] I couldn't even look at her. Yeah. T T T

[2:00:30] T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T

[2:00:30] T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T Tammy

[2:00:32] [laughter]

[2:00:33] like aversion therapy.

[2:00:34] >> Oh my god. And then I started laughing.

[2:00:37] So the best way for me to do I know,

[2:00:39] Rich. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, man.

[2:00:42] >> You had to do a bunch of research to get

[2:00:44] to this place. That's all.

[2:00:45] >> On my heart. On my heart. Yeah.

[2:00:47] >> And I passed her in the hallway.

[2:00:51] >> Saturday night. We passed in the hallway

[2:00:53] and I put my hand up. I said, "Hey,

[2:00:55] we're getting married Tuesday. We're on

[2:00:56] our way to Hawaii the next day." I said

[2:00:59] we're getting married Tuesday. We get to

[2:01:01] Hawaii Sunday.

[2:01:03] Monday I'm cooking cooking for for uh um

[2:01:09] the uh we getting married. So I started

[2:01:13] cooking and she said to me,

[2:01:16] "Look, I don't know if you were teasing

[2:01:18] or kidding around, but today's Monday

[2:01:21] and we don't have a marriage license."

[2:01:23] [snorts]

[2:01:24] And it dawned on me, we got to go to the

[2:01:27] courthouse, right? [snorts] We got to go

[2:01:29] get one. So, we went and we got it. And

[2:01:32] I didn't know it, but I was in such a

[2:01:34] shock as I was walking down the hallway.

[2:01:36] She was standing behind me filming me

[2:01:38] [laughter]

[2:01:39] going in. I went in, we signed the

[2:01:42] paperwork,

[2:01:44] went in the backyard, had some neighbors

[2:01:46] come over so we'd have some witnesses.

[2:01:48] My preacher from Houston showed up. We

[2:01:51] got married. And the minute we got

[2:01:52] married, we're all crying. and we're all

[2:01:54] emotional and then then you then you go

[2:01:57] then you have this why in the world did

[2:02:00] it take so long cuz it was great

[2:02:03] >> and it's been great ever since.

[2:02:05] >> I'm happy for you, man.

[2:02:06] >> Yeah, I'm happy for me.

[2:02:07] >> Yeah, it's great.

[2:02:08] >> Yeah. Selfishly speaking, I'm very happy

[2:02:10] for me. You know, the book is called

[2:02:13] Looking for Terry. I think we uh I'm

[2:02:15] looking right at him. Uh I think we we

[2:02:17] found a bit of him at least today. Uh I

[2:02:20] love the book. This was great, man. This

[2:02:22] was super fun. so much on you. I

[2:02:24] appreciate it. I appreciate it. You just

[2:02:26] you just came with great energy.

[2:02:28] >> Uh and just you you left it on the

[2:02:31] field, my friend. This was fantastic. Do

[2:02:33] you feel you okay? You feel all right?

[2:02:35] >> No, I'm fine. You know what? My butt's

[2:02:37] hurting from sitting so long.

[2:02:39] >> We'll get you up out of there.

[2:02:40] >> This is great.

[2:02:41] >> Um cool. You're welcome here anytime. I

[2:02:43] hope so. Best of luck with everything.

[2:02:45] Thank you. This is great. Appreciate

[2:02:46] you. Cheers.

Rich Roll
ArtistRich Roll

Vegan ultra-endurance athlete, podcaster and plant-based wellness advocate who went from rehab and a 50-pound weight gain to finishing the Ultraman World Championships and the EPIC…

View profileWebsite
Explore Topics
Depression-mental-healthResilience-recoveryLeadership-authenticityCancer-survivorshipAdhd-anxiety

Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

Bradshaw described depression as physically sickening, like 'watching the sun go down' knowing darkness was coming. He experienced severe depression for weeks after Super Bowl victories and said it was harder to overcome than his two cancer diagnoses because it was invisible and made him doubt himself.
The Steelers had no offensive coordinator or quarterback coach, and Bradshaw had to call plays himself. Combined with playing under tough coach Chuck Noll and the pressure of being the first overall draft pick, he had to mature gradually. Today, he says, he wouldn't have survived his first few years.
The 1970s NFL was more physical with fewer rules protecting players, and players had loyalty—once drafted, you stayed with your team unless cut or traded. That gave young players time to develop. Today's players face shorter leashes, get traded frequently, and come to every game worried about getting cut.
His wife recognized he needed help and told him directly. She stayed with him through the process and continues to be deeply engaged in his life. Her recognition and intervention broke through his belief that he should handle it alone.
Though Noll was demanding, Bradshaw eventually developed a leadership style based on respect and kindness rather than yelling or demeaning people. He learned to lead by helping his team buy into a vision, which required authenticity about his own values.
The phrase refers to his lifelong search for his authentic self beneath all the identities he's adopted—champion quarterback, broadcaster, actor, country music singer. His depression forced him to ask who he actually was apart from performance and other people's expectations.

Continue Reading

More from Rich Roll

View All
The Little Boy Behind the Action Hero: Craft and Fatherhood
Inspire

The Little Boy Behind the Action Hero: Craft and Fatherhood

A lanky, self-conscious teenager becomes a muscular action lead, and a drama student lifts weights in secret. Tom Hopper's long conversation…

9 min read
The Odyssey That Sobriety Prepared Him For
Inspire

The Odyssey That Sobriety Prepared Him For

An actor's hidden battle with a mysterious autoimmune disease forced a reckoning with family trauma, spiritual emptiness, and what survival …

8 min read
Why Trying to Love People Fails—and What Attention Does Instead
Inspire

Why Trying to Love People Fails—and What Attention Does Instead

A café parable about two strangers exposes how conditioning colors every encounter. Eckhart Tolle explains why pure attention, not effort, i…

9 min read
Become Live at Center for the Arts: Chant and Call-Response
Inspire

Become Live at Center for the Arts: Chant and Call-Response

A seven-minute live performance of "Become," from the album by Simrit feat. dub creative, built on repeated vocal phrases, held vowels and c…

5 min read

Keep exploring

Continue your journey

More wisdom and gatherings from across the BrightStar directory.

More Articles

Browse the full library of teachings, interviews, and guides.

Back to all articles →

Teachers & Artists

Explore the lineages, musicians, and guides of the conscious world.

Explore artists →

Find an Event

Kirtan, retreats, sound baths, breathwork, festivals — happening soon.

Browse events →