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Inspiration

Animism, Mediumship and Regenerative Farming: A Healer's Story

Charlie Arnott
Charlie Arnott
Jan 1, 2026
9 min read

From Charlie Arnott

Watch · 4

On the last afternoon of a two-and-a-half-day workshop, the wifi had died, the camera was misbehaving, and the friends who had driven down for a feed were already heading to the pub. In the sitting room of a property called Mona Vale, near the Tasmanian town of Ross, Charlie Arnott, an eighth-generation Australian regenerative farmer and host of The Regenerative Journey podcast, finally sat down with a man he had been trying to interview for years. Patrick McManaway, a Scottish healer and teacher of subtle energy, had a childhood that began in a household where mediumship was ordinary, a father who reportedly used psychic methods in wartime strategy, and a medical degree he set aside after a single year. What he brings to the conversation is a claim that sounds mystical on first hearing and becomes more practical the longer you sit with it: that imagination is a real organ of relationship, and that plants, animals, soil and weather respond to the way we think about them. The April 2025 interview, published on the podcast at the start of 2026, ranges across family history, the old animist worldview, and the work of blessing water and singing into land. This article follows that arc, from origin to the present practice, and explains the ideas along the way.

Read · 8 sections

Where does a healer's story begin?

For McManaway, it begins at home, and he tells it with a sense of humour about his own arrival. He was born at home, to a vegetarian yoga teacher mother, and according to his account the timing was recorded to the second so the astrology could be done. His parents had already set up a centre in rural Scotland in 1959, devoted to spiritual healing and mediumship, both to practise and to teach. Their work sat inside a wider renaissance of alternative medicine and holistic therapies, and they approached it as lay practitioners working with what would now be called life-force energies.

That detail matters because it places his family outside the professional frame that most people associate with healing. Patrick described his father as someone who treated what he called the "celestial Civil Service" as a source of practical guidance, particularly for healing and healthcare. The aim, as he framed it, was the everyday renewal of spiritual gifts for ordinary women and men, not the cultivation of an elite. It was an unfashionable stance, and his account makes clear it was also a legally sensitive one. He noted that witchcraft laws in the UK were abolished only in 1952, and that for decades before that his parents had been practising natural therapy, spiritual healing and mediumship.

Read against that history, the rest of his life looks less like a sudden turn and more like a continuation. A child raised in a room where readings, healings and natural remedies were routine learns early that the boundary between the practical and the unseen is more porous than the adult world admits.

What was it like growing up among mediums?

Mediumship in that setting was not a parlour performance. It was closer to a working discipline, with teaching, practice and guidance woven into daily life. The episode's description places the family's approach within a period when many people were rediscovering their own intuitive capacities after decades of institutional medicine that had little room for them. McManaway's point, as he sets it out in the conversation, is that the gifts are common, not rare, and that the family's job was to make them usable.

The question that follows is the one most listeners will bring to the episode: how does a household like this survive contact with the outside world? The answer, at least in the portion of the interview that is publicly available, is that the family kept its practice grounded in healing and in the natural therapies of the day, rather than in spectacle. That grounding is also what makes his later move into environmental work feel coherent rather than eccentric.

How did a military officer's psychic work reach wartime strategy?

The episode description singles out one piece of family history that is difficult to believe on first encounter. It says McManaway's father, a military officer, used psychic practices for military strategy during the Second World War. The published summary does not elaborate on methods, outcomes or sources, and the transcript available for this article does not reach that part of the conversation. What can be said with confidence is that the episode treats this as one of the remarkable and often secret chapters in the history of psychic practice, and that the family's broader outlook, in which guidance from unseen sources was a normal part of decision-making, is the frame through which McManaway presents it. Readers who want the detail will need to listen to the full interview rather than rely on secondhand accounts.

Why would someone trained in medicine leave after a year?

The description also records a turn that most readers will find as striking as the wartime story. McManaway pursued a medical degree and retired after one year, to dedicate himself to holistic environmental work. The material does not spell out his reasons, and this article will not supply them. What the sequence does show is a person moving from the most conventional route to healing toward a practice centred on land, water and living systems. Whatever his reasons, the move is consistent with the family outlook he grew up with: healing as a relationship with the whole environment, not only with an individual body.

What is animism, and why does it matter to a farmer?

The idea that organises the whole conversation is animism. In the passage that opens the podcast, McManaway explains that sustainable cultures across history engaged with what we would now call animism: the lived sense that the weather, plants, animals, soil and water respond to human thoughts. He is not describing a quaint belief from the past so much as a working relationship with the world, one that many traditional land-based peoples took for granted.

For a regenerative farmer, that framing changes the question. Instead of asking only which inputs or practices produce a result, the farmer asks what kind of attention the land is receiving, and whether that attention is respectful or extractive. McManaway's claim is that the quality of the attention matters, and that it is not a metaphor.

Can you really communicate with plants and animals?

This is the claim that will divide listeners, and it is worth stating exactly how McManaway makes it. He argues that the imagination is the most powerful organ of the psyche, and that its proper function is not to generate fantasy but to engage with relationship. Once we accept that imagination is real in this sense, he says, we can truly communicate with plants and animals and with their wider environment.

"Once we allow our imagination to engage and recognize that the imagination is real, is the most powerful organ of the psyche, is the point, not where we create fantasy, but where we engage with relationship, then we can truly communicate with plants and animals and all of their environment."

Patrick McManaway, speaking with host Charlie Arnott on The Regenerative Journey podcast

The distinction he draws is between imagination as escape and imagination as perception. A farmer who stands in a paddock and senses how the land is holding up is, in his terms, already using the faculty he is describing. The skill lies in trusting that perception enough to act on it, and in testing it against what the land actually does. Readers approaching this as a skeptic should note that McManaway presents it as a practice to be developed, not a belief to be accepted on authority.

Where do singing, water and land fit in?

The episode's chapter list shows how the conversation moves from theory to practice. It runs from family background into alternative medicine and spiritual practice, then to the power of singing and love in agriculture, to connecting with nature's intelligence, to blessing water, to communicating with plants and animals, and finally to reflections on a long life's work. The published summaries name these topics but do not describe their content in detail, and the portion of the transcript available here ends before most of them. That is the honest limit of this article. What the sequence reveals is a teacher whose practice runs from the intimate (how one relates to a single plant) to the systemic (how a whole landscape holds together), and who sees singing and blessing not as ornament but as forms of attention applied to living systems.

For readers who farm, garden or simply want the land around them to recover, the throughline is the same one the opening passage sets out. Care is not sentimental. It is a way of paying attention that the land can register, and McManaway's life is his argument that the attention is worth practising.

Where to go from here

The most useful next step is to hear the full conversation. McManaway's own voice, with its Scottish cadence and its habit of moving from family memory to field practice in a single breath, carries much of the argument that a summary can only point toward. Listen for the sections on singing in agriculture and blessing water, where the abstract claims about imagination become concrete. If you want to test the ideas, go to the land you know best and spend a quiet hour simply noticing how it responds to your attention, then ask what you observed. And if you are drawn to the subtle energy work he teaches through his collaborators at Quantum Leap Subtle Energy, the podcast's show notes point to the relevant details. Treat the ideas as a hypothesis to examine with your own senses, and let the land be the final judge.

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Transcript

[0:00] Sustainable cultures

[0:01] of all experienced

[0:04] and engaged with

[0:06] what we would now

[0:07] call animism, which

[0:09] is the perceived

[0:11] and lived actuality

[0:13] of the weather,

[0:14] responding to

[0:15] our thoughts, the

[0:16] plants responding

[0:17] to our thoughts,

[0:18] the animals, the

[0:20] soil, the water,

[0:21] responding to

[0:21] our thoughts.

[0:23] And so once we allow

[0:25] our imagination to

[0:28] engage and recognize

[0:29] that the imagination

[0:30] is real, is the most

[0:33] powerful organ of

[0:35] the psyche, is the

[0:37] point, not where

[0:38] we create fantasy,

[0:39] but where we engage

[0:40] with relationship,

[0:42] then we can truly

[0:44] communicate with

[0:44] plants and animals

[0:46] and all of their

[0:47] environment.

[0:49] That was Dr. Patrick

[0:50] McMan Way, and

[0:51] you're listening

[0:51] to the Regenerative

[0:52] Journey.

[0:56] Good day.

[0:57] I'm your host,

[0:57] Charlie Arnt, an

[0:58] eighth generational

[0:59] Australian

[0:59] regenerative farmer.

[1:01] And in this podcast

[1:02] series, I'll be

[1:03] diving deep and

[1:04] exploring my guests

[1:04] unique perspectives

[1:05] on the world so

[1:06] you can apply

[1:07] their experience

[1:08] and knowledge to

[1:09] cultivate your own

[1:10] transition to a

[1:11] more regenerative

[1:12] way of life.

[1:19] Welcome to The

[1:20] Regenerative Journey

[1:21] with your host,

[1:22] Charlie Arnet.

[1:36] Good day.

[1:37] Welcome back to

[1:37] the Regenerative

[1:38] Journey.

[1:38] Welcome to this

[1:39] wonderful interview.

[1:40] With Dr. Patrick

[1:41] McMan way, he has

[1:43] been on my radar

[1:44] for so many years

[1:46] now to interview.

[1:46] I did meet Patrick

[1:47] many years ago

[1:48] having done his

[1:50] first a level

[1:51] one, a subtle

[1:52] energy workshop

[1:53] at a monastery

[1:54] near here from

[1:55] near Bo, actually

[1:55] Garland Monastery.

[1:56] This is going back,

[1:57] could be 10 years.

[1:58] And ever since I

[2:00] started the podcast,

[2:01] Patrick has been

[2:02] up the top of the

[2:03] list of people

[2:03] to track down.

[2:04] COVID did put a spin

[2:05] on the works 'cause

[2:06] Patrick doesn't

[2:06] live in Australia.

[2:07] He lives.

[2:08] Spends some of his

[2:09] time in Vermont,

[2:11] in the States

[2:11] and sometime

[2:13] in at Edinburgh

[2:14] and Scotland.

[2:15] So I was very

[2:16] fortunate to track

[2:17] him down in April,

[2:18] late April this

[2:19] year, 2025, down

[2:21] in Tasmania at, uh,

[2:22] Mona Vale and near

[2:23] the town of Ross.

[2:25] When I did with

[2:26] Lila, my daughter,

[2:27] my third level

[2:28] one, how bad's.

[2:30] That became a bit

[2:30] of a course joke at

[2:31] the fact that I was

[2:32] there for the third

[2:33] time, but it had

[2:33] been 10 years since

[2:34] I did the first one.

[2:35] Great excuse to

[2:36] catch up with

[2:37] Patrick and his

[2:37] wonderful team

[2:38] at Quantum Leap.

[2:39] Subtle Energy,

[2:40] wonderful new

[2:41] revive, not revive,

[2:43] but a new branded

[2:44] sort of business

[2:45] and organization,

[2:46] which I've been

[2:47] very supportive

[2:48] of, of, and I

[2:48] can't tell you how.

[2:49] Wonderful.

[2:50] The team there are

[2:51] in getting Patrick

[2:52] out twice a year

[2:53] now and having some

[2:54] very, very astute

[2:56] practitioners

[2:57] themselves.

[2:58] If you're wondering

[2:58] what subtle Energy's

[2:59] all about and what

[3:00] Patrick teaches,

[3:00] well, you'll just

[3:01] have to hang around

[3:02] for a bit longer

[3:02] and listen to the

[3:03] interview, but

[3:04] very fortunate to

[3:06] interview Patrick.

[3:07] It was the end of

[3:08] the last day, so

[3:09] it was, I think

[3:09] it was a two and

[3:10] a half day course.

[3:11] We had a pretty

[3:12] big couple of days.

[3:13] We were sitting

[3:14] at the wonderful

[3:15] property at

[3:16] Mona Vale there

[3:17] in Tasmania.

[3:18] As I said, the

[3:18] Cameron family,

[3:19] very generous to

[3:19] host that and to

[3:20] allow me the time.

[3:22] They'd all headed

[3:22] down to the

[3:23] pub for a feed.

[3:24] We had a little

[3:25] cheeky whiskey.

[3:26] We did have some,

[3:28] I was surprise,

[3:29] surprise,

[3:30] some technical

[3:31] difficulties, which

[3:32] we, we got around.

[3:32] I think the wifi

[3:33] wasn't working

[3:34] very well.

[3:34] Then my camera

[3:35] and the phone and

[3:36] the whole thing.

[3:37] Be assured, I trust

[3:39] this is the last

[3:40] interview you'll

[3:41] ever listen to

[3:42] where I'm whinging

[3:42] about technical

[3:44] difficulties.

[3:44] 'cause I've got a

[3:44] very cool little

[3:45] thing I'm recording

[3:46] with right now.

[3:47] The Osmo DJI Osmo

[3:49] handheld thing,

[3:50] which does it all,

[3:51] does the audio,

[3:51] does the video

[3:53] and the whole

[3:53] thing is awesome.

[3:55] But back to

[3:56] the interview.

[3:57] So we had a

[3:57] wonderful chat.

[3:58] I think we've

[3:59] managed to sort of

[4:00] splice the parts

[4:00] together that we had

[4:02] to, due to some of

[4:03] the hiccups we had.

[4:05] But it was a very

[4:06] wonderful yarn.

[4:07] As I said, one that

[4:08] I've been waiting

[4:09] to do for many,

[4:09] many years, Patrick,

[4:11] is it seems like

[4:12] Patrick's in this

[4:13] constant state of,

[4:14] not meditation,

[4:15] but this sort of

[4:16] reverence and grace.

[4:17] Which if you,

[4:18] when you listen

[4:19] to the rest of

[4:19] the interview,

[4:19] you'll, you'll

[4:20] really get what

[4:21] I'm talking about.

[4:22] That he is

[4:23] extraordinary.

[4:24] He is one of a

[4:25] kind and I can't

[4:27] tell you enough,

[4:28] I can't support

[4:29] you enough in your

[4:31] anyone's thinking

[4:32] about doing some

[4:33] of the workshops

[4:34] with Patrick and

[4:34] his wonderful team.

[4:35] We will get to that

[4:37] at some point in

[4:37] terms of the, the

[4:38] website and so on.

[4:40] It'll be in the

[4:40] show notes, but this

[4:42] is an amazing chat

[4:43] with, we went all

[4:43] over the place too.

[4:44] Patrick does go

[4:45] all over the cosmos

[4:47] and back to earth

[4:49] occasionally,

[4:50] but this is a

[4:50] really good yarn.

[4:51] Really enjoyed

[4:52] Patrick's company

[4:54] in the interview,

[4:54] but any other

[4:55] time I get to ca

[4:56] to hang out with

[4:56] Patrick, he's just

[4:57] an awesome human

[4:58] being and please

[5:00] enjoy this episode

[5:01] of the Regenerative

[5:01] Journey with Dr.

[5:02] Patrick Mcay.

[5:08] Patrick, um, welcome

[5:09] to the Regenerative

[5:10] journey and welcome

[5:12] to the sitting

[5:13] room here at Mon

[5:15] Vale in Tasmania.

[5:18] Absolutely.

[5:19] Pleasure to be

[5:19] with you, Charlie.

[5:21] Well, it's been

[5:21] my pleasure to be

[5:22] with you for the

[5:23] last two days at

[5:25] your Quantum Leap

[5:27] level One or Subtle

[5:28] Quantum Leap, subtle

[5:29] Energy level one.

[5:30] Mm-hmm.

[5:30] Course it's still

[5:31] still called Level

[5:32] One Foundations,

[5:33] course Foundations.

[5:34] Yes.

[5:34] Gotta get up with

[5:35] that, which, uh,

[5:37] we were laughing

[5:38] yesterday that

[5:38] it's my third,

[5:40] third attempt.

[5:42] But I had to blame

[5:43] you for the, it

[5:44] being three times.

[5:45] 'cause you're such a

[5:46] wonderful presenter.

[5:46] There's always

[5:47] something new.

[5:48] Well, either that or

[5:49] I'm just not doing

[5:50] a good job, Charlie.

[5:52] No, you're doing

[5:52] an amazing job.

[5:53] An amazing job.

[5:54] Um, Patrick, we

[5:55] are here, um, as

[5:57] I've just mentioned

[5:58] for, um, foundation

[6:00] Course Quantum Leap.

[6:01] So Energy, um,

[6:02] which is a new

[6:03] organization we

[6:04] might get to,

[6:04] actually I did

[6:04] interview Gary.

[6:06] Gary.

[6:06] Gary gave a good

[6:07] description of that.

[6:07] He was great.

[6:08] Yes.

[6:08] Yeah.

[6:08] What a lovely both.

[6:09] Yes.

[6:09] That was a

[6:09] lovely interview.

[6:10] Well done with that.

[6:11] Um, well, he's

[6:12] easy to talk to.

[6:13] Mm-hmm.

[6:15] Um, so we won't,

[6:17] we won't dwell on

[6:18] that too much as

[6:19] in the, we, we, we

[6:20] might touch on it

[6:21] while we're here and

[6:22] what's part of the

[6:22] course, but I've got

[6:23] a lot of questions.

[6:24] We are, I'm

[6:24] conscious of time.

[6:25] We've got friends,

[6:28] um, on their way to

[6:29] Oakland's, to the

[6:30] pub where we will

[6:31] be going in about

[6:32] an hour's time.

[6:33] So I'm conscious

[6:34] we've only got

[6:34] a little bit of

[6:34] time together.

[6:36] Um, which does give

[6:38] me the opportunity

[6:39] to go to Vermont

[6:42] or Edinburgh.

[6:43] Mm-hmm.

[6:44] Um, in the next

[6:45] 12 months, I hope,

[6:47] Patrick, as you

[6:49] know, our, the

[6:50] podcast is called

[6:51] The Regenerative

[6:51] Journey.

[6:51] Honor, hear a

[6:52] bit about your

[6:52] regenerative

[6:53] journey.

[6:53] Um.

[6:55] And can we start,

[6:57] there's, there's

[6:57] lots to I wanna

[6:58] ask you about, but

[6:59] let's start with

[7:00] where did, where

[7:01] did Little Patrick

[7:03] appear in the world?

[7:04] Where, what,

[7:04] where was day one?

[7:06] Yes.

[7:07] We had a birthday

[7:08] yesterday, which

[7:08] I want to get back

[7:09] to, but, so there's

[7:10] significance in

[7:11] that, but where you,

[7:12] you, where did you

[7:13] appear in the world?

[7:15] And in, in what

[7:16] sort of environment?

[7:16] Yes.

[7:17] Yes.

[7:18] Well, I was born as

[7:19] a small child for

[7:22] the, for the, for

[7:23] the how many, how

[7:23] many times Was it?

[7:24] 23rd time.

[7:25] Surprised and

[7:26] delighted parents.

[7:28] No, I was home

[7:29] delivery to

[7:30] vegetarian yoga

[7:31] teacher mum.

[7:32] Mm. And timed out,

[7:35] uh, to the second so

[7:36] that they could get

[7:37] the astrology done.

[7:40] Um, so my parents

[7:43] at the time had,

[7:46] uh, established

[7:48] I came in in 67.

[7:49] In 1959, mom and

[7:51] dad had established,

[7:53] uh, center in

[7:55] rural Scotland for

[7:57] spiritual healing

[7:58] and mediumship

[8:00] to both practice

[8:01] and train people.

[8:03] And that extended

[8:05] very much into,

[8:07] uh, the time, the

[8:08] renaissance and

[8:08] development of, um,

[8:10] alternative medicine

[8:11] holistic therapies.

[8:13] And so they were

[8:14] interested in

[8:17] natural therapies,

[8:18] natural medicine,

[8:19] and um, as lay

[8:23] practitioners really

[8:25] working with what we

[8:28] would now call Life

[8:29] Force energies And

[8:32] as dad would just

[8:33] call the celestial

[8:35] Civil Service, um,

[8:37] for really guidance

[8:40] in life, for

[8:41] guidance, especially

[8:42] in healing

[8:43] and healthcare

[8:44] and in the

[8:46] renaissance of, um.

[8:52] The commonplace

[8:53] spirituality,

[8:54] um, and gifts of

[8:56] spirit for the

[8:57] everyday woman

[8:58] and man context.

[9:00] Charlie was, um,

[9:03] uh, witchcraft

[9:04] Laws in the UK were

[9:07] abolished only in

[9:08] 1952, and prior to

[9:10] that, mom and dad,

[9:11] both for decades

[9:12] had been involved

[9:13] in, uh, natural

[9:16] therapy, spiritual

[9:16] healing, mediumship,

[9:18] different, uh,

[9:19] kinds of, and felt

[9:21] strongly called once

[9:22] the, um, witchcraft

[9:25] laws were abolished

[9:26] and replaced by

[9:26] the fraudulent

[9:27] Mediums Act to

[9:29] bring this back

[9:30] into the community

[9:31] in a strong, um.

[9:34] And, uh, authentic

[9:36] way to, uh, share

[9:39] that work and, um,

[9:41] empower people to,

[9:43] uh, connect with

[9:44] spirit and, um,

[9:46] use their gifts

[9:46] of healing and

[9:48] mediumship in, in

[9:49] everyday context,

[9:50] in everyday life.

[9:52] So they, they

[9:53] would've been deemed

[9:55] what they were

[9:56] doing before 19

[9:57] 56, 2, 19 52, yeah.

[10:00] 52 that what

[10:01] their activities

[10:02] would've been

[10:02] deemed witchcraft.

[10:03] Is that right?

[10:04] Is that right?

[10:04] That was the

[10:04] significance of

[10:05] that, that, that

[10:06] being abolished and

[10:07] them being able to

[10:08] then Yes, it was.

[10:09] So, I think

[10:13] as in many cultures,

[10:14] um, esoteric

[10:16] knowledge had

[10:17] been nurtured,

[10:19] cultivated,

[10:20] practiced,

[10:21] uh, quietly.

[10:24] In family circles,

[10:26] um, in, um, in

[10:29] closed, closed

[10:30] circles, closed

[10:31] rooms, uh, in

[10:33] America it was, it

[10:34] was open and free.

[10:36] Um, but, uh, in

[10:39] Europe and, and,

[10:40] uh, and England

[10:42] particularly, uh,

[10:43] not so unless one

[10:45] was, uh, ordained,

[10:46] uh, clergy, uh,

[10:49] Catholic or protest.

[10:50] The, the official

[10:50] witchcraft.

[10:51] The official

[10:52] the official,

[10:53] um, exactly.

[10:55] Um, we could

[10:56] possibly cynically

[10:57] call it trades

[10:58] unionism, but I'm

[10:59] sure, uh, depending

[11:01] on where one

[11:02] stood, one would

[11:02] have a different

[11:05] opinion and

[11:05] attitude, uh,

[11:07] towards that.

[11:08] But certainly, um,

[11:11] uh, kept separate

[11:12] from and denied

[11:14] to, uh, the common

[11:17] people like you

[11:18] and I, uh, in our

[11:19] everyday lives.

[11:22] And so, uh,

[11:24] practices of

[11:24] divination, um, the

[11:27] use of dowsing for

[11:28] finding water, for

[11:29] finding minerals,

[11:31] um, for finding and

[11:33] locating, missing

[11:34] people, missing

[11:35] things, um, the use

[11:37] of, um, um, plant

[11:41] medicines, um, and

[11:44] the, the use of

[11:45] the simple gift of,

[11:47] of natural healing

[11:48] were all, uh, very

[11:49] much contained,

[11:50] uh, within, uh,

[11:53] clergy and, uh,

[11:54] medical professions

[11:55] at the time.

[11:57] So really it was,

[11:58] it was the dawn

[11:59] of what we might

[12:00] now consider

[12:01] a renaissance

[12:02] or a new age.

[12:04] And, um, coincided

[12:06] with sort of

[12:06] social liberation

[12:07] of the 1960s and

[12:10] exploration of

[12:11] consciousness,

[12:12] uh, through, um.

[12:16] Uh, introduction

[12:17] of, uh, eastern

[12:19] practices of,

[12:20] of yoga, of, um,

[12:22] qung, of Tai chi

[12:24] of meditation.

[12:26] A great fascination,

[12:27] I think in the

[12:27] sixties and

[12:28] seventies with

[12:29] the emergence of

[12:30] Buddhism coming

[12:31] outta Tibet, um,

[12:34] consequence of the

[12:34] Chinese invasion

[12:35] and the displacement

[12:37] of, um, of the

[12:39] community there.

[12:41] And then in the

[12:41] 17 and eighties, a

[12:42] great interest in,

[12:43] um, native American

[12:46] spirituality.

[12:47] So I think it was

[12:47] a very fascinating

[12:49] and heady couple

[12:50] of decades of

[12:52] sudden openness

[12:53] and exploration of

[12:55] all manner of, um,

[12:57] what at the time,

[12:59] uh, in, in, um, in

[13:01] Britain, um, post

[13:04] Empire Britain

[13:05] would've been,

[13:05] um, sort of non,

[13:08] non-traditional,

[13:09] non-conformist, uh,

[13:10] but very authentic

[13:11] spiritual seeking.

[13:12] Yeah.

[13:13] And you were in

[13:13] the middle of that,

[13:14] grew your family?

[13:15] I grew up in the

[13:15] middle of that, yes.

[13:16] And you had, you

[13:17] have, um, siblings,

[13:19] you're the, are

[13:20] you the youngest?

[13:20] I'm the youngest

[13:21] of three.

[13:22] Yeah.

[13:22] Uh, so we were all,

[13:25] uh, brought up with,

[13:27] um, metaphysics,

[13:30] spirituality, um.

[13:33] Uh, healing, uh,

[13:35] discussed at kitchen

[13:37] table and, um,

[13:39] because it was a,

[13:40] a teaching center

[13:41] as well as, as a

[13:42] practicing center,

[13:42] there were always

[13:44] students around

[13:45] up to seven or

[13:47] eight full-time

[13:48] residential students

[13:49] and many people

[13:50] coming for courses

[13:51] and conferences

[13:52] and workshops.

[13:53] So we would average

[13:55] probably a dozen

[13:56] to 15 around

[13:57] the, the kitchen

[13:59] table for meals.

[14:00] And the interest

[14:03] was in all of the

[14:05] subtle energy world.

[14:06] So it was, it was

[14:08] simply the family

[14:09] culture and we

[14:10] grew up knowing

[14:11] nothing else.

[14:12] What a wonderful,

[14:13] nurturing

[14:15] environment.

[14:16] So different from.

[14:19] I suspect everyone

[14:20] who was at the

[14:20] um, course today,

[14:22] certainly mine,

[14:22] which is not, you

[14:24] know, it was very

[14:25] conventional.

[14:26] So Patrick

[14:27] appeared in that

[14:29] wonderful nurturing

[14:30] environment.

[14:31] Um.

[14:32] Where were you?

[14:33] You're in Edinburgh?

[14:34] No, north of

[14:35] Edinburgh.

[14:36] Uh, 45 minutes to

[14:37] drive, uh, rural

[14:40] fife, uh, little

[14:41] village called

[14:41] Strath Melo.

[14:43] Um, about 20 mi

[14:45] miles, uh, inland

[14:47] of St. Andrews.

[14:49] Oh, nice.

[14:49] So north of

[14:50] Edinburgh,

[14:51] south of Perth.

[14:51] Rolling, uh,

[14:53] rural agricultural

[14:55] landscape.

[14:55] Very beautiful.

[14:57] Uh, gentle climate.

[14:58] Four seasons,

[14:59] climate and

[15:00] deep soils.

[15:02] Um, grain and

[15:03] dairy bread.

[15:04] Basket of Scotland.

[15:06] Mm-hmm.

[15:07] Lovely.

[15:08] And then so

[15:08] schooling, um, was

[15:10] that a, did you

[15:12] just go to school?

[15:12] Were you

[15:12] homeschooled or

[15:13] what happened?

[15:13] No, we went to

[15:14] school and in and

[15:15] outta private and

[15:16] public sector.

[15:18] Um, brothers went

[15:20] boarding school.

[15:21] I didn't wanna leave

[15:22] home 'cause I loved

[15:24] the, uh, the family

[15:26] culture and we had

[15:29] ponies and dogs and

[15:31] chickens and geese

[15:32] and it was good at

[15:33] home and I loved

[15:34] the family vibe,

[15:35] so I was allowed to

[15:37] stay as a day boy,

[15:38] which meant going

[15:39] to our local, uh,

[15:41] state sponsored

[15:42] comprehensive

[15:43] school.

[15:44] But, um, the

[15:47] academics were

[15:48] good and it let

[15:48] me stay home and.

[15:52] Participate

[15:52] and learn from

[15:53] the parents.

[15:54] And you went

[15:55] to the medical

[15:56] school after that.

[15:57] Your father was,

[15:58] was he a doctor?

[15:58] Father was military.

[16:00] Oh, isn't he?

[16:01] He, he wasn't

[16:01] a doctor.

[16:01] Not at all.

[16:02] I think he

[16:02] was a doctor.

[16:03] No, quite

[16:03] the opposite.

[16:04] Charlie.

[16:04] Mm-hmm.

[16:05] He was a military

[16:05] brat, son of

[16:06] military officer.

[16:08] Uh, was he strict?

[16:11] Uh, well aged

[16:12] eight to 18.

[16:14] He'd been in

[16:14] military academy

[16:16] and then war broke

[16:17] out when he was 19.

[16:19] So he went off

[16:19] with British

[16:20] Expeditionary Force.

[16:22] His mom had been a

[16:24] trance medium, and

[16:25] so he got a little

[16:25] bit of coaching.

[16:27] In that realm.

[16:28] But he definitively

[16:29] discovered a gift

[16:32] of healing age

[16:33] 19, uh, rear guard

[16:35] action at Dunkirk.

[16:37] And, um, compelled

[16:40] to put his hands on

[16:41] wounded comrades and

[16:44] astonished to find,

[16:45] um, cessation of

[16:46] pain, uh, cessation

[16:49] of blood loss

[16:50] and keeping them

[16:50] alive rather than

[16:52] they're going into

[16:54] to shock states.

[16:55] And that really

[16:56] was what opened

[16:57] his mind.

[16:58] And the military was

[16:59] very open to psychic

[17:01] practices at.

[17:03] Then certainly,

[17:03] and I think

[17:05] perhaps quietly

[17:06] around the world,

[17:07] variously still now.

[17:09] And so, um, he

[17:13] developed, uh,

[17:14] his healing and

[17:16] mediumship practices

[17:18] whilst a regular

[17:20] officer for 20

[17:20] years, um, uh, going

[17:24] across North Africa.

[17:26] Um, literally every

[17:28] single night the

[17:29] officers had a

[17:30] seance, um, using

[17:33] those techniques

[17:34] to establish enemy

[17:35] troop positions,

[17:36] numbers Wow.

[17:37] Uh, tanks,

[17:38] artillery,

[17:39] uh, ordinance,

[17:40] et cetera.

[17:42] And, um, he

[17:43] was involved

[17:44] in experiments

[17:46] of, uh, using

[17:47] dowsing to, uh,

[17:48] locate, um, ships

[17:51] at sea and, um.

[17:54] Is there a book

[17:55] about this?

[17:55] Is it, is

[17:56] this, is this a

[17:56] documented thing?

[17:58] Uh, it's variously

[18:00] documented.

[18:02] Um, mostly I think

[18:05] it was very quietly

[18:07] done, um, but the,

[18:11] the psychic and

[18:14] psychic effort

[18:15] and, and use of

[18:16] esoteric magic,

[18:18] uh, during second

[18:20] World War, but also

[18:21] in basically all

[18:22] previous conflicts.

[18:24] Mm-hmm.

[18:24] Been very

[18:25] widely spread.

[18:26] Yeah.

[18:26] Yes.

[18:27] Um, brewing up

[18:29] storms to disperse

[18:30] the Spanish armada.

[18:32] And, um, didn't

[18:33] Churchill have

[18:33] someone put

[18:34] a bubble over

[18:35] London or England?

[18:36] Churchill was very

[18:37] involved and, um,

[18:40] was directing, uh,

[18:41] a group of inner

[18:42] psychics, Wellesley

[18:44] t Poll, Dion,

[18:45] fortune, and others,

[18:47] uh, with a, the high

[18:50] depths of the day.

[18:51] And, um, the whole

[18:53] of the nation poured

[18:54] its psychic energy

[18:57] to their use during

[18:58] the, uh, appeared

[19:01] that it took Big

[19:02] Ben to chime nine

[19:05] o'clock, right?

[19:06] They had a two

[19:07] minute, uh, national

[19:10] time of prayer,

[19:12] and that energy

[19:12] was then used and

[19:13] directed by, uh,

[19:15] Churchill's Aept.

[19:16] It was, was that

[19:17] a, was that a

[19:17] daily thing?

[19:18] Everyone knew

[19:19] when the child,

[19:19] when the, oh wow.

[19:21] That's pretty

[19:21] powerful, isn't it?

[19:22] Very powerful

[19:23] now, a nation Wow.

[19:25] Under, uh,

[19:26] threat and duress

[19:27] really pulls.

[19:28] All the stops

[19:29] are out.

[19:30] Um, and, uh,

[19:33] whether, whether

[19:34] you think it's

[19:34] rational or not

[19:36] at that point,

[19:36] doesn't matter.

[19:37] You're, it's like

[19:37] with every tool in

[19:39] the box, any tool in

[19:40] the box, I think so.

[19:42] And so if it works

[19:43] we'll use it.

[19:45] So, very

[19:45] interesting.

[19:46] Very interesting

[19:46] times and stories

[19:47] come out of, of, uh,

[19:49] of that, that time.

[19:52] Uh, in terms

[19:53] of use of,

[19:57] uh, psychic

[19:58] espionage.

[19:59] Psychic

[19:59] misinformation.

[20:00] Psychic

[20:00] disinformation,

[20:01] because both

[20:02] sides were very

[20:03] engaged with.

[20:04] Mm-hmm.

[20:06] With, um, with that,

[20:08] and you had, you

[20:09] was, was it today?

[20:10] Yesterday, you said

[20:11] you had a, an early

[20:13] retirement party.

[20:14] Mm. You wanna tell

[20:16] us about that?

[20:17] Well, growing

[20:18] up, uh, with, uh,

[20:20] this rich mix of.

[20:23] Uh, practical

[20:23] spirituality and,

[20:25] uh, alternative

[20:27] holistic therapies

[20:29] practiced on

[20:30] people and animals

[20:32] and places.

[20:33] I was just on,

[20:37] on team from

[20:38] the get go.

[20:38] I wanted to join

[20:39] in and participate

[20:41] and, um, at the

[20:44] time, Britain wasn't

[20:46] yet a member of

[20:47] the European Union.

[20:49] Um, but there was

[20:51] an anticipation

[20:52] of joining, which

[20:53] obviously we

[20:54] did, uh, for a

[20:55] period of time.

[20:57] But alternative

[20:58] medicine, whilst it

[20:59] was, uh, permissible

[21:00] and unregulated in

[21:01] the UK was highly

[21:03] regulated in, um,

[21:06] at the time both

[21:07] Frozens and Germany.

[21:09] And, uh, uh, even,

[21:13] uh, alternative

[21:15] medicines were not.

[21:16] Legally, um, uh,

[21:21] allowed to be

[21:22] practiced, uh,

[21:23] unless one had a

[21:23] medical degree.

[21:25] Is the German

[21:27] hang up with that?

[21:28] Is that a

[21:28] hangover from.

[21:31] Because I know

[21:31] Hitler wasn't a

[21:32] big fan of that

[21:32] sort of stuff.

[21:33] Well, he, he knew

[21:33] all about it, but he

[21:34] was trying to squash

[21:35] it, wasn't he?

[21:35] Is that, was

[21:36] that a bit of

[21:36] a hangover or?

[21:37] That part I'm not

[21:39] quite clear on.

[21:40] Uh, the Germans

[21:41] I think had a

[21:42] three year health

[21:43] practitioner

[21:44] training that

[21:45] was required.

[21:46] The French wanted

[21:47] a full, uh,

[21:48] medical license.

[21:49] Okay.

[21:50] So anticipating

[21:51] that, um, parents

[21:53] recommended I, uh,

[21:54] get a medical degree

[21:56] and a license so

[21:57] that I could then

[21:58] safely practice

[22:00] complimentary

[22:00] therapies Right.

[22:01] For the rest

[22:01] of my life.

[22:02] Okay.

[22:03] So that was

[22:04] the agenda.

[22:04] Went and had,

[22:06] uh, six years

[22:08] in Edinburgh.

[22:09] Mm-hmm.

[22:10] Uh, getting,

[22:12] getting medically

[22:12] trained and then

[22:13] working, uh, for a

[22:14] year with National

[22:16] Health Services

[22:17] as junior doctor

[22:18] until I got my, um.

[22:21] My license and

[22:22] then a retirement

[22:23] party, uh, followed,

[22:25] uh, earliest

[22:26] retirement party

[22:27] was I was free to,

[22:27] uh, free to pursue

[22:29] other practices.

[22:31] I did end up doing

[22:32] another eight months

[22:33] of, uh, of National

[22:35] Health Service

[22:36] medicine while

[22:37] I, uh, explored

[22:39] and tracked down

[22:39] further training in.

[22:41] In the holistic

[22:42] environmental

[22:43] work that I, I

[22:44] do now, and that

[22:45] was actually very

[22:45] lovely, was eight

[22:47] months of work in

[22:48] the Orny Islands off

[22:49] the north coast of

[22:50] Scotland in a very

[22:51] lovely community

[22:52] and mm-hmm.

[22:53] Uh, very beautiful

[22:54] circumstances.

[22:55] But, uh, yes, during

[22:58] that time, I'd, I'd

[22:59] found a training

[23:01] that I wanted to

[23:01] take in Vermont,

[23:03] which was a two

[23:04] year apprenticeship

[23:05] because I know

[23:06] you, you well.

[23:06] Okay.

[23:07] So your association

[23:07] with the Vermont

[23:08] goes all the way

[23:08] back to then, even

[23:10] before, uh, American

[23:12] Society of Dowsers

[23:13] is headquartered

[23:14] in Vermont.

[23:15] Yeah.

[23:15] Right.

[23:15] And dad had been

[23:16] keynote speaker

[23:17] for them in 1984,

[23:19] and, uh, I was

[23:20] taking a gap year

[23:21] between high school

[23:22] and medical school

[23:23] that year and

[23:25] had gone over and

[23:25] spent 10 weeks on.

[23:27] Uh, friends

[23:28] Tree Farm.

[23:29] Mm oh yeah.

[23:31] Uh, which then was

[23:33] my first falling

[23:34] in love with,

[23:36] uh, farm work

[23:38] and agriculture.

[23:39] And when I went

[23:40] back 92 to 94, I

[23:43] was able to live and

[23:44] work on, on the same

[23:46] farm whilst I took

[23:48] my apprenticeship

[23:48] in the construction

[23:49] and ucs of sacred

[23:50] space, which include

[23:52] studies in earth,

[23:53] energy, dowsing, uh,

[23:56] but also astronomy,

[23:57] astrology, sacred

[23:58] geometry, and the

[24:00] wisdom traditions

[24:01] of Native

[24:03] American, Celtic,

[24:04] and, uh, Norse.

[24:07] Uh, and a little bit

[24:08] the western mystery

[24:10] tradition also.

[24:11] But it was wonderful

[24:13] combination,

[24:13] Charlie.

[24:14] 'cause I got to

[24:14] study the esoteric

[24:15] and then put it to

[24:16] work on the farm.

[24:18] Um, is that

[24:20] where you were?

[24:22] Digging up

[24:22] trees Yes.

[24:23] And trying and

[24:24] singing to them.

[24:25] Yes.

[24:26] And then, because

[24:26] I, that's something

[24:27] I often quote and,

[24:29] and we did all

[24:31] that today with

[24:32] the, um, sentient

[24:33] of Plants, which

[24:34] is a whole nother

[24:35] podcast series,

[24:36] but pretty much.

[24:38] But that was a

[24:38] fascinating thing.

[24:39] Can you tell

[24:39] us that story?

[24:40] That the Yes, yes.

[24:42] I, I had grown

[24:44] up, um, not in

[24:45] an agricultural

[24:46] framework at all,

[24:47] and so working,

[24:50] uh, laboring on

[24:51] this tree farm was

[24:52] really my first

[24:52] introduction, and

[24:53] I, I didn't know

[24:55] any different.

[24:57] But, um, uh, the

[24:59] farmer, Steve, uh,

[25:03] lovely human being,

[25:04] uh, had grown up

[25:05] on the farm, uh,

[25:08] taken a degree in

[25:08] English literature,

[25:10] was a poet, a

[25:10] songster, uh,

[25:12] deep philosophical

[25:13] thinker.

[25:15] And so when we

[25:17] would go into the

[25:18] forest, uh, we would

[25:21] start by pausing,

[25:23] centering ourselves,

[25:25] opening our minds,

[25:26] communicating

[25:27] with spirit of the

[25:29] place, spirit of

[25:30] the forest, let it

[25:31] know what we were

[25:32] coming to do, which

[25:33] in this circumstance

[25:34] was coming to, uh,

[25:36] dig native saplings

[25:37] from the forest and

[25:40] wrap them in root

[25:41] balls, and then

[25:45] take them into care

[25:46] and subsequently

[25:47] move them on and

[25:48] sell them to a.

[25:50] Uh, nurseries and

[25:51] landscaping, uh,

[25:53] companies to be

[25:56] planted out as, as,

[25:57] um, ornamentals.

[26:01] And so we would

[26:04] presence ourselves.

[26:05] We would

[26:06] communicate,

[26:06] we would have

[26:07] a little prey.

[26:07] We'd go into the

[26:08] forest, and then we

[26:11] would only ever work

[26:12] with hand tools.

[26:13] So there were no

[26:13] power tools, and

[26:15] we would sing

[26:16] while we worked.

[26:17] And partly that was

[26:18] just fun and it made

[26:19] the day go along.

[26:20] And also it was

[26:22] very practical and

[26:23] helpful because

[26:23] sometimes we were

[26:25] two or three or four

[26:25] of us lifting heavy

[26:26] things together.

[26:28] And just like a sea

[26:29] shanty, if you were

[26:30] all singing along,

[26:31] then you all lifted.

[26:33] You know, in

[26:34] rhythm together.

[26:34] And so the lift

[26:35] went well and nobody

[26:37] was outta sync and

[26:38] nobody got hurt.

[26:40] So, but I'd never

[26:40] done any other farm

[26:41] work any other way.

[26:42] So I kind of thought

[26:43] this was just what

[26:44] you did on the farm.

[26:46] Yeah, yeah.

[26:46] I learned

[26:47] differently

[26:48] subsequently, but,

[26:49] uh, I had a moment

[26:51] of revelation,

[26:52] Charlie, when, um,

[26:55] uh, on one occasion

[26:56] we were delivering

[26:57] 450 trees, uh, to

[27:00] a big landscaping

[27:01] yard, uh, three

[27:03] hours south of us.

[27:05] And so we'd gone

[27:06] down and transported

[27:08] the trees and just

[27:10] circumstantially.

[27:11] I ended up, uh,

[27:12] offloading them

[27:13] shoulder to shoulder

[27:14] with the site

[27:15] manager of the yard,

[27:17] and he was very

[27:18] concerned to let me

[27:20] know that uh, their

[27:22] industry standard

[27:24] was a 10% wastage on

[27:27] trees that came in.

[27:28] So they expected and

[27:30] experienced 10% of

[27:32] all the trees that

[27:33] were delivered to

[27:33] them to die and.

[27:38] But in 15 years,

[27:39] he'd never lost

[27:40] a single tree

[27:41] from my boss.

[27:42] Zero.

[27:43] And he wanted, he

[27:44] wanted, he really

[27:44] wanted me to know

[27:45] that it was, yeah,

[27:46] this was, this

[27:47] was remarkable and

[27:48] clearly exceptional

[27:49] in his mind.

[27:49] Did he, did he wanna

[27:50] know why or how?

[27:51] No, he didn't

[27:52] know why.

[27:53] He assumed, and

[27:54] I have to assume

[27:55] also, that Steve was

[27:56] just very careful

[27:58] and meticulous,

[27:59] uh, in every way

[28:01] and only let trees

[28:02] off farm that

[28:03] he was confident

[28:04] would survive

[28:05] and, and thrive.

[28:07] But even so, to lose

[28:09] none in 15 years

[28:11] against an industry

[28:11] standard of 10%,

[28:12] it just left me

[28:13] thinking something.

[28:15] Really different

[28:16] is happening here.

[28:18] And the love and

[28:19] the care and the

[28:20] singing, um, was the

[28:24] only thing apparent

[28:25] to me that would be

[28:27] in any way different

[28:27] from, um, some

[28:31] other, any other,

[28:31] any other nursery.

[28:33] So what, so what

[28:34] is it about the

[28:34] singing and the

[28:35] love that, that,

[28:38] I mean obviously

[28:38] other people weren't

[28:39] doing it, but why,

[28:40] why would that have

[28:41] had, why would that

[28:42] make a difference?

[28:42] A difference?

[28:43] Um.

[28:46] So that and

[28:47] subsequent studies

[28:48] and practice and

[28:49] experience has

[28:51] led me into a

[28:52] deep awareness and

[28:54] pragmatic experience

[28:56] of the degree to

[28:58] which plants are

[29:00] sentient and truly

[29:04] understand our

[29:05] thoughts, understand

[29:07] our feelings, uh,

[29:09] have capacity to

[29:12] adapt their, uh,

[29:14] metabolism, um,

[29:17] their expressed.

[29:20] Uh, physiological

[29:22] features.

[29:23] Um, and just like an

[29:26] animal or a person,

[29:28] uh, they respond

[29:29] to our love, they

[29:31] hear and understand

[29:32] our thoughts.

[29:33] If we listen

[29:34] carefully with

[29:35] deep listening,

[29:38] we can allow them

[29:39] to put thoughts and

[29:41] feelings and, um,

[29:43] communications back

[29:45] into our minds so

[29:46] we can have a deep

[29:49] and highly

[29:49] cooperative and

[29:50] constructive

[29:51] conversation with,

[29:52] with plants as

[29:53] indeed we can, with

[29:54] animals, with birds,

[29:58] with, uh, rivers,

[30:00] with weather.

[30:01] Um, I've really

[30:03] personally

[30:03] experienced,

[30:05] uh, in a very.

[30:06] Practical and

[30:08] pragmatically

[30:09] useful way.

[30:11] Uh, the true

[30:12] sentient that's

[30:14] held in reverence by

[30:16] indigenous cultures

[30:18] all over the

[30:18] world in including

[30:20] our own European

[30:22] ancestry, um, who

[30:24] are in endless

[30:25] communication with

[30:26] their landscape.

[30:27] And, uh, the

[30:28] landscape

[30:29] intelligences

[30:30] that go by, uh,

[30:32] the various name,

[30:33] the the she of

[30:34] Scotland, the, the

[30:36] af, the g Nome, the

[30:37] fairy, the self.

[30:39] These aren't, um,

[30:40] fantasy figures for

[30:43] children's stories.

[30:44] These are powerful

[30:46] elemental forces

[30:47] with, uh, full

[30:49] consciousness and,

[30:50] um, powerful agency.

[30:54] And we live in and

[30:55] by their grace.

[30:56] And if we.

[30:58] Humbly connects

[30:59] and, um, ask

[31:02] and communicate

[31:02] with them.

[31:03] They can help

[31:04] us out in

[31:04] unbelievable ways.

[31:06] Uh, and if we don't,

[31:09] then they can, um,

[31:15] uh,

[31:20] if we don't do that,

[31:21] we miss a trick.

[31:22] Or two.

[31:24] Uh, and, um,

[31:26] by not being in

[31:28] dialogue with our

[31:29] landscape, we end

[31:31] up acting in, um,

[31:35] in disconnected ways

[31:36] that create harm

[31:38] and, um, and injury

[31:42] to ourselves as well

[31:43] as the landscape

[31:44] and put us into a,

[31:46] an unsustainable

[31:47] relationship,

[31:48] um, with it.

[31:50] But, um, sustainable

[31:53] cultures all

[31:54] over the world,

[31:56] or one of the

[31:57] primary paradigms

[31:58] that allows

[31:59] sustainability is

[32:02] the awareness

[32:03] and, uh.

[32:05] Actuated skill

[32:07] of landscape

[32:09] communication.

[32:11] Um, and that's what

[32:15] keeps us in balance

[32:18] with our environment

[32:19] at the most,

[32:20] uh, fundamental

[32:21] level, I think.

[32:22] And this, the,

[32:23] this level one or

[32:25] foundational, um,

[32:27] course that we are

[32:29] in the middle of.

[32:30] Um, it's three

[32:32] days, so there's

[32:32] a lot in it.

[32:33] What, what can,

[32:35] I mean, I guess

[32:35] I'm just sort of

[32:37] dangling the carrot

[32:38] for listeners

[32:39] and viewers.

[32:39] Like, what, what

[32:40] would be, just give

[32:43] them a sense of, um,

[32:46] whether it's stage

[32:46] one or step one

[32:47] into relationship

[32:50] with landscape.

[32:51] What, what, what

[32:51] sort of a mind,

[32:53] um, Headspace does

[32:54] one need to be in?

[32:55] Or is there a. Is

[32:57] there a, um, without

[32:58] going through every

[32:59] single step, 'cause

[33:00] there's a, I guess

[33:00] a bit of a thing

[33:00] to it, but what,

[33:02] where, where would

[33:02] people wanna start

[33:03] to even just get in?

[33:06] Well, I guess in

[33:07] that state of grace

[33:10] in terms of

[33:11] practicing at,

[33:12] um, yeah, you're

[33:13] just sort of

[33:14] thinking, okay.

[33:15] I, I, I want to,

[33:16] I want to get one

[33:17] step closer to Yes.

[33:18] That appreciation

[33:19] and that

[33:20] acknowledgement and

[33:21] that sort of, you

[33:21] know, awareness.

[33:24] Yes.

[33:24] So, um, and apart

[33:26] from every, I'm

[33:26] highly encouraging

[33:27] everyone to go and

[33:28] do the course, but

[33:29] you Well, uh, uh,

[33:31] actually, maybe

[33:31] don't say anything

[33:32] so that people

[33:33] will have to go.

[33:36] No, no.

[33:36] Give them a little,

[33:37] let's, let's

[33:38] bait them a bit.

[33:39] I think.

[33:39] I think, I

[33:40] think, uh.

[33:43] Truly Charlie.

[33:44] Um, the connection

[33:47] with the

[33:48] intelligences of

[33:49] landscape, uh, the

[33:51] connection of the

[33:51] intelligences of

[33:54] our ancestors, of,

[33:56] um, the angelic

[33:57] community, it's

[34:00] truly and literally

[34:01] the most natural

[34:02] thing of all that

[34:04] we can possibly do.

[34:08] And so we don't need

[34:09] to go on a course

[34:10] or a workshop.

[34:12] We simply need to

[34:13] allow ourselves,

[34:15] um, to authentically

[34:18] engage, um,

[34:20] with our.

[34:22] Intuition with

[34:23] our instinct, with

[34:24] our innate wisdom.

[34:27] Um, it's got us

[34:29] through the last

[34:30] half million years,

[34:32] uh, and it'll get

[34:33] us through the next

[34:34] two or 3 million

[34:35] years if we simply

[34:37] keep doing what

[34:38] we always did.

[34:39] And, um, for 99%

[34:44] of human history,

[34:46] um, we've lived

[34:47] in circular time.

[34:49] Mm. Um, where we

[34:52] understand that all,

[34:55] all projects, uh,

[34:57] all endeavors or

[34:59] activities follow

[35:00] a circular path.

[35:02] Uh, the circle

[35:03] of the breath,

[35:04] the circle of the

[35:05] heartbeat, the

[35:05] circle of the day,

[35:06] the circle of the

[35:07] season, the circle

[35:08] of the year, um,

[35:12] and, uh, sustainable

[35:15] cultures of all.

[35:17] Experienced and

[35:19] engaged with what

[35:21] we would now call

[35:22] animism, um, which

[35:24] is the perceived

[35:26] and lived actuality

[35:28] of, um, the weather,

[35:31] responding to

[35:32] our thoughts, the

[35:33] plants responding

[35:34] to our thoughts,

[35:34] the animals, uh,

[35:36] the soil, the

[35:37] water, responding

[35:38] to our thoughts.

[35:40] And so once we allow

[35:42] our imagination,

[35:45] uh, to engage and

[35:46] recognize that

[35:47] the imagination is

[35:48] real, um, is, uh,

[35:51] the most powerful

[35:53] organ of the psyche

[35:55] is the point.

[35:56] Not where we create

[35:57] fantasy, but where

[35:58] we engage with

[35:59] relationship.

[36:01] Um, then we can

[36:02] truly communicate

[36:04] with plants and

[36:04] animals and all of

[36:06] their environment.

[36:07] And, um,

[36:08] historically,

[36:11] uh, as stewards,

[36:13] that was our

[36:14] responsible

[36:14] role and.

[36:16] I like to quote, um,

[36:19] the tradition of,

[36:21] uh, Celtic kingship,

[36:23] uh, in Scotland

[36:24] and, and the Celtic

[36:25] lands, which was

[36:27] not an inherited or

[36:28] executive function,

[36:30] but was an elected

[36:32] and ambassadorial

[36:33] function.

[36:34] And so, uh, drawn

[36:36] from the wisest,

[36:39] most peaceful.

[36:41] Uh, most connected

[36:42] members of the

[36:43] community, uh,

[36:45] kingship involved in

[36:46] Scotland eight times

[36:48] a year, uh, going to

[36:50] our central sacred

[36:51] Mount in Chalian

[36:53] and engaging in

[36:54] deep, uh, meditation

[36:55] and, uh, direct

[36:57] communication with

[36:58] the queen of the

[36:59] she, the queen of

[37:00] the nature, spirit

[37:01] and elemental

[37:02] community of

[37:04] that landscape.

[37:06] And then coming

[37:06] down the mountain

[37:08] after their journey,

[37:09] uh, of shamanic

[37:10] connection and

[37:13] sharing with the

[37:13] people how many

[37:14] deer could be taken

[37:16] from the forest, how

[37:17] many salmon could

[37:18] be taken from the

[37:19] river, uh, how many

[37:21] cows, how many sheep

[37:22] could be supported

[37:23] by the landscape,

[37:24] when to plant,

[37:25] when to harvest.

[37:28] And in this way, the

[37:30] people were governed

[37:31] by the landscape

[37:33] intelligence.

[37:35] And the role of

[37:36] that ambassadorial

[37:37] function was to

[37:39] ensure, uh, intimate

[37:41] communication so

[37:42] that the people

[37:44] literally lived in

[37:45] a sustainable way.

[37:47] Um, and so we look

[37:52] for our leaders now.

[37:54] Uh, to do the same

[37:55] job, um, not to

[37:57] sit and think alone

[37:59] in an isolated

[38:00] space, but to be

[38:03] in deep connection

[38:04] with the governing

[38:05] agencies that

[38:06] support human life

[38:08] in the landscape.

[38:09] Uh, not to either

[38:11] think that they're.

[38:12] To be taken for

[38:13] granted and also

[38:14] not to think that

[38:15] they're inanimate,

[38:17] um, and, uh,

[38:20] non-negotiable or,

[38:22] um, uh, exploitable

[38:25] resource.

[38:27] And once you

[38:28] experience for

[38:29] the first time,

[38:30] as, as we have.

[38:32] In the workshop

[38:33] here, uh, the

[38:35] transformation, um,

[38:40] that can occur.

[38:41] We've had our,

[38:43] our beverage

[38:43] blessing Mm.

[38:45] Experience where

[38:46] Yeah, that's great.

[38:47] Um, by sharing

[38:49] love and then

[38:50] communication

[38:51] with vegetable

[38:52] and fruit juice.

[38:53] We've experienced,

[38:56] you know, changes

[38:57] in flavor, changes

[38:59] in texture.

[39:00] I'm just waiting to

[39:01] turn the color to go

[39:02] from green to Well,

[39:03] I is that next.

[39:04] You just, you just

[39:05] needed to take a

[39:06] little bit longer

[39:07] working at it,

[39:08] because the first

[39:08] time I saw you do

[39:09] that was at the

[39:11] gay long monastery.

[39:12] Mm. With red wine.

[39:13] Yes.

[39:14] That was a very

[39:15] interesting place

[39:16] in just for that

[39:17] to in many ways.

[39:19] In many ways, yeah.

[39:20] But that was

[39:20] fascinating.

[39:21] I often reference

[39:22] that one.

[39:23] So that's a, that's

[39:24] a very tangible

[39:25] application that's

[39:26] very tangible.

[39:27] And uh, when we

[39:29] do that on farm,

[39:32] uh, we see the

[39:33] response of stock.

[39:35] Mm. Um, one of my

[39:36] favorite stories

[39:37] is we shared, uh,

[39:40] the blessing of a

[39:41] borehole that was

[39:43] feeding, um, water

[39:44] to troughs in half

[39:47] of 120 paddocks

[39:49] on a rotationally

[39:50] grazing sheep farm.

[39:52] Uh, so 60 of the

[39:54] paddocks had water

[39:57] in troughs from the

[39:57] borehole and the

[39:59] other 60 paddocks,

[40:01] the sheep were

[40:02] drinking from dams.

[40:05] And after a field

[40:06] day where we,

[40:09] uh.

[40:11] Communicated with

[40:12] the spirit of

[40:12] the borehole and

[40:15] acknowledged it,

[40:16] gave it gratitude.

[40:17] Great love

[40:19] communicated

[40:20] that, uh, it was

[40:22] primarily, uh, being

[40:24] used to nurture,

[40:26] uh, the, uh, the

[40:28] mob of sheep.

[40:31] And we did a before

[40:32] and after taste

[40:32] and it was rather

[40:34] ordinary before

[40:34] we started, and

[40:35] it was rather good

[40:36] when we finished.

[40:38] But immediately

[40:39] after having done

[40:40] that, uh, the sheep

[40:43] who'd previously

[40:44] shown little or no

[40:45] preference between

[40:46] dam water and trough

[40:47] water immediately,

[40:51] uh, when let out of

[40:52] a, uh, a dam watered

[40:55] paddock, galloped

[40:57] as a mob straight

[40:58] and directly to

[40:59] the trough, up

[41:00] to 1.4 kilometers

[41:02] in some cases.

[41:02] Hmm.

[41:03] And they kept

[41:04] on doing this

[41:05] every time they

[41:06] were led into a

[41:07] trough paddock

[41:07] for six months.

[41:09] And then we got

[41:10] back to, um,

[41:14] back to the farm

[41:15] and extended the

[41:16] work and blessed

[41:17] all of dams and

[41:18] justice instantly.

[41:20] As it had started,

[41:21] the behavior stopped

[41:22] and the sheep

[41:23] no longer shed

[41:24] any preference,

[41:25] um, for trough

[41:26] over dam water.

[41:29] Um,

[41:31] that was simply

[41:32] blessing.

[41:33] Blessing.

[41:33] That was simply

[41:34] blessing the water,

[41:35] uh, which is a

[41:36] process first, the

[41:37] trough process and

[41:38] the dams, without,

[41:38] again, it's a bit

[41:39] of a thing, but

[41:40] what, what, what

[41:42] does blessing at,

[41:43] at bo look like?

[41:44] Yes.

[41:45] So the great human

[41:48] superpower is our

[41:50] capacity to direct

[41:52] loving attention.

[41:53] Mm-hmm.

[41:55] And, uh, we

[41:56] have, um.

[41:59] We have this gift of

[42:00] free will and, uh,

[42:03] we have the gift of

[42:04] being able to direct

[42:05] simple, pure love.

[42:07] And where we, when

[42:08] we combine those

[42:09] two, uh, we can

[42:11] really, uh, create

[42:12] extraordinary, uh,

[42:14] results, uh, in our

[42:16] own lives, in every,

[42:19] every sphere of

[42:20] our life, in every

[42:21] relationship that

[42:21] we have, um, as well

[42:24] as in landscape.

[42:26] And so a true

[42:29] blessing, I think

[42:30] is when we simply

[42:31] without agenda.

[42:33] Give love to

[42:33] another, uh, being,

[42:36] um, whether the

[42:38] person, plant,

[42:39] animal or place.

[42:42] And having done

[42:43] that, uh, giving

[42:45] pure an agenda, love

[42:46] allows a thing to

[42:47] be holy and fully

[42:50] and simply itself

[42:52] in its most solid

[42:53] and secure way.

[42:56] So often that's

[42:57] enough and we can

[42:59] leave it there.

[43:00] Um, and.

[43:02] Um, but once we've

[43:05] truly blessed

[43:05] a thing and

[43:06] exchange a love

[43:07] of it, it leaves

[43:08] us with a deep

[43:08] rapport, uh, and

[43:10] compassion with it.

[43:12] And that allows

[43:13] us also to have

[43:15] communication and

[43:16] conversation with

[43:17] it, either through

[43:18] direct telepathy

[43:19] or through muscle

[43:21] testing or dowsing

[43:22] or other, uh,

[43:23] practices, uh,

[43:24] pertaining and

[43:26] communicate our

[43:27] specific needs.

[43:28] So in this case,

[43:29] we were hoping that

[43:31] this water would

[43:32] become particularly.

[43:35] Uh, delicious

[43:36] and nourishing

[43:37] for sheep.

[43:39] Um, in another

[43:41] circumstance, we

[43:42] might be asking the

[43:43] water to be optimum

[43:44] for irrigating crops

[43:46] or for nurturing

[43:48] human beings, or,

[43:50] uh, for any of the

[43:51] things that we might

[43:52] need water for.

[43:54] So, a true and

[43:55] simple blessing

[43:57] is an exchange

[43:57] of unconditional

[43:58] love, but that then

[44:00] also creates the

[44:01] space for us to

[44:02] have conversation

[44:03] and communication,

[44:05] uh, for particular

[44:07] purpose, um,

[44:08] of, of the day.

[44:11] In this case, it

[44:11] was delicious.

[44:12] Sheep water,

[44:13] delicious sheep

[44:14] water, and we

[44:15] can do this at

[44:16] home, Charlie.

[44:17] And, uh, uh,

[44:19] it's been done

[44:19] many times.

[44:20] And the beautiful

[44:22] photographs of Dr.

[44:23] Moto showing the

[44:24] coherence arising

[44:27] in, uh, crystalline

[44:28] water, uh, with

[44:29] the application

[44:30] of of love.

[44:33] We can take seeds,

[44:34] uh, and germinate

[44:36] them on a couple of

[44:37] trays in the kitchen

[44:39] and give loving

[44:40] attention to one

[44:42] tray of seeds and

[44:43] the water, uh, that

[44:45] we water that with.

[44:46] And then the second

[44:47] tray of seeds,

[44:48] just water it the

[44:49] same, but give it

[44:50] no love, ignore it.

[44:53] Um, otherwise,

[44:54] and then after 10

[44:55] days, measure, uh,

[44:58] the, the germinated

[44:59] weight of the

[45:00] seeds and measure

[45:00] the roots and the

[45:01] chutes, and we

[45:02] typically see about

[45:03] a 30% germination

[45:04] difference.

[45:05] Mm-hmm.

[45:06] Um, quite

[45:07] extraordinary in

[45:10] other circumstances,

[45:11] um, on farm.

[45:13] Um, slightly

[45:14] different

[45:15] application, but

[45:15] working with, uh,

[45:17] power center of,

[45:18] of natural earth

[45:19] energies and a

[45:20] lot of intention.

[45:21] Uh, one of the farms

[45:22] that I was working

[45:23] with was included

[45:25] in a, a trial of dry

[45:27] rice growing in, uh,

[45:30] by the University

[45:31] of Vermont's

[45:32] Agricultural

[45:32] Extension Program.

[45:34] And five farms

[45:35] were involved.

[45:36] And, uh, on

[45:38] four farms, they

[45:40] achieved a 25%

[45:41] germination rate.

[45:43] And on the farm

[45:44] that what I was

[45:45] working with, uh,

[45:47] using, uh, refined

[45:48] and focused earth

[45:50] energies and, um, a

[45:53] small, simple stone

[45:54] circle and a lot of

[45:55] love and intention,

[45:56] we got a 100%

[45:58] germination rate.

[46:00] And so to move

[46:01] from 25% to 100%

[46:03] germination rate

[46:04] with love and

[46:05] intention and

[46:06] the use of subtle

[46:08] energy is clearly,

[46:09] is tremendously

[46:10] helpful, uh, summer

[46:13] unit on a farm.

[46:15] Um, but the

[46:18] application of

[46:19] of this awareness

[46:20] goes, you know, from

[46:21] farm to business to

[46:22] family to to office.

[46:25] It's, it's simply

[46:26] a universal set

[46:27] of principles

[46:29] of relationship.

[46:35] This episode of The

[46:36] Regenerative Journey

[46:37] is proudly brought

[46:38] to you by Quantum

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[47:24] Let's.

[47:26] I want to go to,

[47:28] um, we talked today,

[47:31] you, you spoke today

[47:32] about intelligence

[47:33] of ev anything and

[47:35] everything that,

[47:36] anything that,

[47:37] I'm paraphrasing

[47:38] a little bit and,

[47:39] but anything that

[47:41] vibrates any, which

[47:42] everything is, has

[47:43] an intelligence as

[47:44] a, there's a innate

[47:47] intelligence and so

[47:49] if everything has

[47:51] an intelligence,

[47:53] whether it's the,

[47:54] the lamp, the rock,

[47:55] the plant, what we

[47:57] would call a living

[47:58] or a non-living

[47:58] thing, anything.

[48:00] And we talked, you

[48:01] spoke a lot about

[48:02] free will today.

[48:03] Mm-hmm.

[48:04] If something is,

[48:05] has an innate

[48:06] intelligence,

[48:08] does it also

[48:08] have free will?

[48:10] Mm. To the

[48:13] extent that it

[48:13] can exercise it?

[48:14] I think it does.

[48:16] Yeah.

[48:16] So a lamp just can't

[48:17] jump across them?

[48:19] It doesn't, it

[48:20] doesn't have an

[48:20] I'm keeping an

[48:20] eye on that one.

[48:21] Opportunity to

[48:21] move itself.

[48:22] Does it?

[48:22] No.

[48:23] Well, hang on.

[48:23] Well, well, or does

[48:25] it or does it Well,

[48:26] given the plant

[48:27] experiment, um,

[48:31] it's a bit of a deep

[48:32] question, Charlie.

[48:34] Um, I will have

[48:36] to, we can move

[48:37] it to part two,

[48:38] well catch up with

[48:39] you in Vermont.

[48:40] Um,

[48:44] uh, we can, we

[48:46] can defer, well,

[48:47] certainly, certainly

[48:49] with plants.

[48:50] Um, and, um.

[48:54] Uh, that's very

[48:56] easy, um, because

[48:58] it's, it's

[48:58] very direct and

[48:59] experiential.

[49:00] And, um, as you've

[49:04] heard now, number

[49:06] of times my favorite

[49:07] story of, uh, the

[49:10] two fields of loosen

[49:12] mm uh, side by side.

[49:15] Um, planted, same

[49:16] day, same seed,

[49:18] same operator,

[49:19] same equipment, uh,

[49:21] being mob grazed,

[49:23] uh, by a small

[49:24] herd of dairy cows.

[49:27] And, uh, going

[49:28] across in strips,

[49:30] the first field,

[49:33] everything was good.

[49:36] First strip,

[49:37] second field,

[49:38] uh, seven outta

[49:39] 20 cows, showing

[49:42] signs of bloat.

[49:45] Uh, which is, as you

[49:46] know, being a, a cow

[49:48] man is a, a lethal

[49:52] mm, uh, and rapid

[49:54] onset, uh, disease,

[49:56] um, of, uh, of cows

[49:59] based on inability

[50:01] to digest, um,

[50:05] their feed and often

[50:07] occurs on loosen.

[50:10] And so, um, uh,

[50:13] managers generally

[50:13] keep a very close

[50:14] eye on cows when

[50:15] they go into

[50:16] loosen first in

[50:17] case this happens.

[50:19] So, first, first

[50:20] field, no problem.

[50:21] Second field,

[50:23] seven added.

[50:24] 20 cows rapidly

[50:26] showing signs of

[50:27] lethal toxicity

[50:28] from, from the,

[50:30] the, from the plant.

[50:34] So cows are taken

[50:35] off the field,

[50:36] put into the barn,

[50:37] um, drenched with

[50:39] vegetable oil,

[50:40] uh, which resolved

[50:41] the problem.

[50:42] But then

[50:42] indigestible field,

[50:44] field, uh, very

[50:45] significant at the

[50:46] time in their forage

[50:47] budget, it was the

[50:48] last green feed, uh,

[50:50] that they had before

[50:51] going on to dry for

[50:53] the winter months.

[50:56] So they asked me to

[50:57] come and look at it.

[50:57] I was, I was

[50:58] nearby and came,

[51:00] uh, quickly and

[51:02] just engaged,

[51:03] uh, as we've been

[51:06] sharing, uh, with

[51:08] direct telepathic

[51:09] communication with

[51:10] the agencies of

[51:11] intelligence of

[51:13] plant and, and

[51:14] field and soil.

[51:16] And so in a

[51:17] meditative process,

[51:19] uh, quieting the

[51:20] mind, getting into

[51:22] what we'd call

[51:22] a grace space.

[51:25] And then literally

[51:26] and clearly and

[51:27] specifically bring

[51:28] into mind all the

[51:29] intelligences, uh,

[51:32] involved being the

[51:34] intelligence or

[51:35] spirit of the farm,

[51:37] of the field, of

[51:38] the soil, of the

[51:40] loosen of the cows,

[51:43] and the overlighting

[51:44] governing

[51:45] intelligence is St.

[51:46] Bridget Mm, uh, in

[51:48] the British lands

[51:50] is considered, uh,

[51:51] to be the deity

[51:52] governing the health

[51:53] of cattle and sheep.

[51:54] So, um,

[51:58] inviting those

[51:59] agencies into the

[52:00] powerful space

[52:01] of the imaginal

[52:03] realm and really

[52:05] having a round

[52:06] table conversation

[52:07] with them, and

[52:09] immediately apparent

[52:10] in that conversation

[52:11] was that the

[52:11] first field had

[52:12] recognized its, uh,

[52:14] presence and was,

[52:17] uh, cooperatively

[52:18] engaged in the

[52:18] agricultural

[52:19] rotation.

[52:22] So it was clear

[52:23] and happily

[52:24] engaged with that.

[52:26] It was planted to

[52:26] be food for cows,

[52:30] and that once it

[52:31] had been browsed, it

[52:32] would be replanted

[52:35] in rotational

[52:35] succession.

[52:37] And so its presence

[52:38] in the landscape was

[52:39] being supported and

[52:41] encouraged by its

[52:43] participation in the

[52:45] nutrition of cows.

[52:47] The second

[52:47] field hadn't got

[52:48] that messaging.

[52:49] Somehow thought

[52:50] that it was wild

[52:52] crop and that

[52:53] these were random

[52:54] feral predators

[52:55] that had moved in.

[52:57] And had mobilized,

[52:59] uh, deliberately

[53:00] and at this

[53:01] discretion, the

[53:01] so-called secondary

[53:02] metabolites, uh,

[53:05] which are the

[53:05] library of phenols,

[53:07] tannins, and other

[53:08] substances that

[53:09] plants, uh, uh,

[53:12] rapidly, uh, create

[53:14] and put into leaf

[53:15] and shoot and

[53:16] root in order to

[53:18] make themselves

[53:19] unpalatable

[53:20] and digestible.

[53:21] In this case,

[53:22] leastly toxic to the

[53:24] aphid, the locust.

[53:26] Um.

[53:28] The pest or,

[53:28] or, or the, um,

[53:30] predatorial.

[53:31] Herbivore.

[53:32] Mm. And so in

[53:35] the imaginal,

[53:36] meditative,

[53:36] communicative space,

[53:38] discussed this

[53:39] with the plants,

[53:40] with the soil, with

[53:41] the, um, paddock.

[53:43] And once they were

[53:44] clear, uh, they were

[53:46] happy to support

[53:47] the agricultural

[53:48] process and we left

[53:51] it for 12 hours.

[53:52] And then, um.

[53:55] John farming there,

[53:57] uh, put the cows

[53:57] back into the field

[53:59] and sure enough,

[53:59] they were able to

[54:00] graze, uh, over

[54:02] the next week, uh,

[54:03] the whole of the

[54:04] field without any

[54:05] mm uh, further, uh,

[54:07] instant or injury.

[54:09] And so many stories

[54:11] subsequently.

[54:12] But that one's

[54:12] quite elegant and

[54:13] beautiful 'cause

[54:14] it lets us know.

[54:15] I sat in meditation

[54:17] and communicated

[54:18] in the space of

[54:19] the imagination.

[54:21] The plants heard

[54:23] me, understood me,

[54:26] had the capacity

[54:27] to change and bless

[54:30] them, chose to do so

[54:32] to our convenience.

[54:34] Corpor Corporation.

[54:36] Yeah.

[54:36] And um.

[54:40] The depth of awe

[54:42] and gratitude that

[54:43] arises from that,

[54:44] um, is infinite.

[54:47] Uh, just realizing

[54:49] that nature can

[54:50] truly support us and

[54:52] if we respectfully,

[54:54] humbly ask for that,

[54:56] uh, it happens.

[54:58] And it also, Charlie

[54:59] left me with a

[55:00] deep awareness of

[55:01] that plants can

[55:02] deliberately make

[55:03] themselves toxic.

[55:04] Mm. Uh, if they

[55:05] don't recognize.

[55:08] Um, and aren't

[55:09] communicated with,

[55:11] um, by ourselves.

[55:15] And I think

[55:16] historically, go

[55:18] back, you know, two,

[55:19] 300 years, uh, we

[55:22] were in constant

[55:23] communication with

[55:23] landscape and our

[55:25] farming was called

[55:26] husbandry, which

[55:27] is speaking to the

[55:29] intimate emotional

[55:31] communication and

[55:33] relationship between

[55:34] farmer and land.

[55:35] And now over the

[55:37] last a hundred

[55:38] years, we've

[55:38] been practicing

[55:39] agricultural

[55:40] science, which is

[55:42] objectifying and

[55:43] disconnecting from,

[55:45] uh, the sentient

[55:46] of the plants.

[55:48] And even to

[55:49] some degree,

[55:50] the animals that

[55:50] were stewarding.

[55:53] And, uh, I think

[55:55] under those

[55:55] circumstances, the

[55:56] plants are literally

[55:59] making themselves

[56:00] toxic because they

[56:02] experience us as

[56:04] feral predators.

[56:06] And the

[56:06] extraordinary

[56:07] increase in,

[56:09] uh, allergies

[56:10] and, uh, food

[56:11] toxicity, I think

[56:14] is, uh, perhaps

[56:16] substantially

[56:17] generated by our no

[56:20] longer communicating

[56:22] with the plants, uh,

[56:25] in, in the field.

[56:27] And that's just

[56:27] obviously a natural

[56:28] defense mechanism

[56:29] that we can't

[56:31] blame them for, for

[56:32] using, for utilizing

[56:33] absolutely.

[56:33] Their natural

[56:34] thing to do.

[56:35] And if we haven't,

[56:35] as you have done,

[56:36] and you, you

[56:37] know, we talked

[56:37] about today and

[56:38] you've done work

[56:39] on a number of

[56:42] landscapes that we

[56:43] are stewarding, um.

[56:46] You inform because

[56:48] I hadn't, you

[56:50] know, the, the

[56:51] new situation and

[56:52] sometimes those

[56:53] situations are

[56:55] new, as in a new

[56:57] owner of land

[56:58] and a new purpose

[56:59] for that land.

[57:00] And in some

[57:01] situations

[57:01] it was, um.

[57:04] Going as far back

[57:06] to say that, you

[57:08] know, the whiteys

[57:10] are here and

[57:11] there's no, there

[57:14] are now boundaries

[57:15] and there's new

[57:16] intention, a

[57:17] new, you know,

[57:18] agricultural

[57:18] practice.

[57:19] And that's kind

[57:20] of a new, um,

[57:23] management practice

[57:24] of landscape as

[57:25] opposed to them

[57:27] the landscape not

[57:27] having boundaries,

[57:29] being looked after

[57:30] and managed by, you

[57:31] know, indigenous,

[57:32] the indigenous

[57:33] brothers and

[57:34] sisters of ours.

[57:35] And that they

[57:36] still thinking

[57:37] that was what was

[57:39] happening to them.

[57:40] Um, you know, that,

[57:41] that place of Byron

[57:42] Bay that you went to

[57:44] some years ago, that

[57:44] was a great example

[57:46] of letting them know

[57:47] that things are a

[57:48] little different

[57:49] now and that, you

[57:50] know, but that was

[57:50] okay, you know,

[57:52] not to be fearful.

[57:53] Not that that was,

[57:55] um, just a new.

[57:57] I mean, probably not

[57:58] a set of rules, but

[57:58] a new environment,

[58:00] um, and a new

[58:02] framework for their

[58:04] f for I guess the

[58:06] nature spirit, the

[58:07] spirit of place to,

[58:09] um, exist in, you

[58:11] know, and you had

[58:12] the chat and you,

[58:14] um, enroll them to

[58:15] the idea that things

[58:16] that there were now

[58:17] boundaries, which

[58:18] is fascinating.

[58:19] I just love the,

[58:21] uh, it, it's a,

[58:22] it's a real pity

[58:23] that, you know,

[58:24] more people don't

[58:25] have that skill.

[58:26] 'cause not

[58:26] many people do

[58:27] unless they've,

[58:28] any of course.

[58:29] Um, that there

[58:31] must be so

[58:31] much landscape.

[58:33] I mean, just,

[58:34] you know, in

[58:34] Australia, let's

[58:35] just stay there.

[58:36] That is confused

[58:39] with this new

[58:41] domesticated

[58:42] sheep and cattle,

[58:42] what are they?

[58:43] The plow, the fence

[58:45] line, the dwelling,

[58:48] the well, the, um,

[58:50] the road, you know,

[58:52] that all this, this

[58:54] disturbance that it

[58:55] is still trying to

[58:56] come to terms with

[58:57] and no wonder that

[58:59] it's not, you know,

[59:02] you could argue that

[59:02] it's not cooperating

[59:04] and you don't, you

[59:05] can't blame it for

[59:05] that, could you?

[59:07] It's a total

[59:08] disturbance

[59:08] of everything.

[59:09] It knows, I

[59:10] think, I think

[59:11] as you describe,

[59:12] um, uh, it's a

[59:14] disorientation.

[59:16] Mm. Um,

[59:20] uh, often I think of

[59:22] my role as being a

[59:24] marriage counselor.

[59:26] Uh, I mediating the

[59:28] relationship between

[59:29] people and place,

[59:31] which I think is.

[59:33] Truly one of the

[59:34] most intimate

[59:35] relationships

[59:35] that we have.

[59:37] And, um,

[59:41] uh, same rules as,

[59:42] as marriage apply.

[59:44] Uh, we want dignity,

[59:46] respect, love,

[59:47] care, uh, and clear

[59:50] communication.

[59:52] And, um,

[59:56] a landscape, uh,

[59:57] has huge longevity.

[1:00:01] It has psychic

[1:00:01] mass and inertia.

[1:00:03] And, uh, it will

[1:00:05] continue to,

[1:00:07] uh, hold the

[1:00:09] memory of the

[1:00:10] last conversation

[1:00:11] that it had.

[1:00:13] And in Europe, uh,

[1:00:15] we had six and a

[1:00:16] half thousand years

[1:00:17] of, uh, sustainable

[1:00:19] agriculture.

[1:00:20] And that was very

[1:00:20] much based on, uh,

[1:00:24] the quarter and

[1:00:24] cross quarterly.

[1:00:26] Um.

[1:00:28] Uh, festivals

[1:00:30] of landscape

[1:00:31] connection,

[1:00:31] communication,

[1:00:33] um, where we, uh,

[1:00:35] very consciously

[1:00:36] as a community,

[1:00:38] um, feasted

[1:00:39] communicated,

[1:00:40] blessed, talked to

[1:00:42] the nature spirits,

[1:00:44] um, blessing

[1:00:45] of the wells.

[1:00:48] Blessing of the

[1:00:48] fields, blessing of

[1:00:49] the crops, blessing

[1:00:50] of the harvest,

[1:00:51] blessing of the

[1:00:51] plow, uh, the, uh,

[1:00:56] communication

[1:00:57] with the weather,

[1:00:58] um, with the, the

[1:01:01] plants and animals.

[1:01:03] And so always,

[1:01:06] it was normal to

[1:01:08] be in constant

[1:01:11] and repeated

[1:01:11] communication to

[1:01:12] make sure that the

[1:01:14] landscape knew what

[1:01:15] we were up to, and

[1:01:16] we knew what the

[1:01:16] landscape was up to.

[1:01:18] It's, it's,

[1:01:18] it's a. Dialogue

[1:01:20] between, you know,

[1:01:21] management agencies.

[1:01:23] Um, and so if,

[1:01:26] if you don't do

[1:01:27] that, then it's

[1:01:28] like, you know,

[1:01:31] having staff that

[1:01:32] you never talk to

[1:01:33] and being surprised

[1:01:34] when they don't

[1:01:36] know what to do.

[1:01:38] Um, so we think

[1:01:41] of, you know, the,

[1:01:42] the relationship

[1:01:43] with place as

[1:01:46] historically

[1:01:46] being aboriginal,

[1:01:48] which indeed it

[1:01:48] is, but it's also

[1:01:50] been universal.

[1:01:52] And whoever is

[1:01:53] on the land today

[1:01:54] needs to talk to

[1:01:55] the land today.

[1:01:57] Um, because if

[1:01:59] he doesn't know

[1:01:59] who's here and

[1:02:00] what's happening,

[1:02:03] it can't, um,

[1:02:07] respond and it

[1:02:08] can't communicate

[1:02:10] back and let us

[1:02:10] know its needs,

[1:02:13] uh, to support.

[1:02:17] Health and

[1:02:17] sustainability

[1:02:18] for soil and plant

[1:02:21] and, and animal.

[1:02:23] So it's very

[1:02:23] two-way process.

[1:02:25] Mm-hmm.

[1:02:25] Um, it needs us to

[1:02:29] be in relationship

[1:02:29] with it as much

[1:02:31] as we need it to

[1:02:32] be in relationship

[1:02:34] with us.

[1:02:35] And nothing more

[1:02:36] natural, nothing

[1:02:37] more simple, nothing

[1:02:37] more joyful, and,

[1:02:40] um, yeah, just

[1:02:42] extraordinary

[1:02:43] results that we

[1:02:43] can get when,

[1:02:44] when we do that.

[1:02:46] I wanna get back

[1:02:47] to you, Patrick.

[1:02:48] Um, you had

[1:02:50] a birthday

[1:02:50] yesterday and.

[1:02:53] I haven't done the

[1:02:54] maths 58 that time.

[1:02:57] 58. No, that's

[1:02:58] got that, but how

[1:02:58] many, how many?

[1:02:59] Lots of

[1:02:59] sevens in 58.

[1:03:01] Oh.

[1:03:01] Uh, where are you up

[1:03:02] to on that sky set?

[1:03:03] I mean that in

[1:03:04] Saturn return?

[1:03:05] Yep.

[1:03:06] Yes.

[1:03:06] So, um, uh, 28 56.

[1:03:10] Um, how many

[1:03:12] sevens is that?

[1:03:15] Seven sevens and 49?

[1:03:16] Yes.

[1:03:17] Eight.

[1:03:17] No.

[1:03:18] Is that right?

[1:03:18] Eight, seven.

[1:03:19] No, I can't

[1:03:20] be right.

[1:03:20] Seven sevens

[1:03:21] are not 49.

[1:03:22] Someone's gonna

[1:03:22] foggy for that one.

[1:03:23] Are they?

[1:03:23] Uh, I think so.

[1:03:24] My times tables.

[1:03:26] So you, you, yeah.

[1:03:27] See, but you know

[1:03:27] what, you know in

[1:03:28] the Saturn return,

[1:03:30] Saturn return I

[1:03:31] think is hitting

[1:03:31] in sort of Yeah.

[1:03:34] You got a few to go.

[1:03:35] You've got six.

[1:03:37] Tell me, um, um,

[1:03:39] you may not have had

[1:03:40] time to think about

[1:03:40] it 'cause it was, it

[1:03:41] was only yesterday

[1:03:42] and you've been

[1:03:43] up to your elbows

[1:03:44] with, with course.

[1:03:45] Where, where, where

[1:03:47] does that put you

[1:03:48] apart from, you

[1:03:49] know, sat in return.

[1:03:50] But what does

[1:03:51] that mean for you?

[1:03:52] Is it, is it, is it,

[1:03:53] what period of your

[1:03:54] life are you in now?

[1:03:56] Is is there a

[1:03:57] new chapter?

[1:03:58] What, what

[1:03:59] chapter do you

[1:04:00] think you are in?

[1:04:00] And are you, are

[1:04:01] you in the chapter

[1:04:04] you think you need

[1:04:04] to be in right now?

[1:04:06] Hmm.

[1:04:06] Great question,

[1:04:07] Charlie.

[1:04:10] I should have given

[1:04:10] an hour on notice.

[1:04:11] No, no.

[1:04:12] Well, second Saturn

[1:04:13] return does get

[1:04:14] your attention.

[1:04:16] Um, uh, it

[1:04:20] seems that, um,

[1:04:25] it seems that my

[1:04:25] work is being, uh,

[1:04:28] very fully embraced

[1:04:29] and supported, um,

[1:04:32] as never before.

[1:04:33] Um, uh, we mentioned

[1:04:37] at the beginning,

[1:04:37] um, the, the

[1:04:40] creation of, of

[1:04:41] this nonprofit

[1:04:42] here in Australia,

[1:04:44] quantum Leap, subtle

[1:04:45] Energy, which is

[1:04:46] totally dedicated

[1:04:47] to expanding and

[1:04:49] supporting the,

[1:04:50] the knowledge

[1:04:51] and the practice.

[1:04:52] Um, and, uh, far

[1:04:55] beyond, uh, what I'm

[1:04:56] bringing, but um,

[1:04:59] sort of originally

[1:05:00] initiated through.

[1:05:02] Um, through the

[1:05:04] work that I brought.

[1:05:06] And so it's

[1:05:07] thrilling to

[1:05:08] see just such

[1:05:09] a deepening and

[1:05:11] broadening and

[1:05:12] expansion of

[1:05:13] the support and

[1:05:14] sharing of the

[1:05:16] simple, natural,

[1:05:17] authentic practices.

[1:05:20] And the same

[1:05:21] thing's happening

[1:05:22] to me in the uk.

[1:05:23] I've now moved

[1:05:25] from being, uh,

[1:05:28] rather solitary

[1:05:29] practitioner to

[1:05:30] being tremendously

[1:05:31] supported by,

[1:05:33] uh, two, three

[1:05:34] organizations there

[1:05:35] that are hosting

[1:05:36] the work and,

[1:05:37] uh, extending it

[1:05:39] and spanning it

[1:05:40] and bringing it,

[1:05:41] uh, open to other

[1:05:42] practitioners and

[1:05:43] teachers as well

[1:05:44] as myself and, uh,

[1:05:46] in, in the US also.

[1:05:48] Um.

[1:05:50] Uh, a lot of support

[1:05:51] for the work.

[1:05:52] So, um, looks like I

[1:05:55] get to keep on doing

[1:05:56] what I'm doing.

[1:05:57] Mm-hmm.

[1:05:57] Um, but with more

[1:05:59] support and moving

[1:06:01] a bit slower, um,

[1:06:04] spending more time,

[1:06:05] uh, which is nice,

[1:06:06] not having to move

[1:06:07] quite so fast, not

[1:06:09] quite so frantic,

[1:06:10] so sort of deepening

[1:06:13] and, uh, expanding

[1:06:14] of, of what

[1:06:15] I've been doing.

[1:06:16] It's really, it's

[1:06:17] really very lovely.

[1:06:18] Are you encouraged

[1:06:19] by all that?

[1:06:20] Tremendously?

[1:06:20] Yeah.

[1:06:21] No, I, I enjoy the

[1:06:23] work that I do.

[1:06:24] It's, it's work that

[1:06:25] I chose to do that

[1:06:26] I felt called to do.

[1:06:28] It's incredibly

[1:06:29] rewarding and joyous

[1:06:31] and to see it, um.

[1:06:34] Rippling and also

[1:06:36] to feel, uh, that

[1:06:37] I'm definitely just

[1:06:38] a small part of a

[1:06:39] massive groundswell

[1:06:41] of emerging

[1:06:43] consciousness

[1:06:43] that you are so

[1:06:45] connected to and

[1:06:46] representative of

[1:06:49] the expansion of

[1:06:50] all regenerative

[1:06:51] practices, of

[1:06:51] biodynamics, of

[1:06:54] holistic thinking

[1:06:55] and community work.

[1:06:56] Um, I think probably

[1:06:58] more than anybody

[1:06:59] in this country.

[1:07:00] Charlie, you're

[1:07:00] connected to all

[1:07:03] the things that I'm

[1:07:04] a small part of.

[1:07:05] And just seeing how

[1:07:08] that emergence of

[1:07:09] consciousness and,

[1:07:10] and practice and

[1:07:11] the restoration of

[1:07:12] relationship with

[1:07:14] community and,

[1:07:15] and land is, is

[1:07:16] just thrilling to

[1:07:17] be part of that.

[1:07:18] And tell us about,

[1:07:20] um, quantumly

[1:07:22] subtle energy then

[1:07:23] the, the, I did,

[1:07:24] as we mentioned

[1:07:24] earlier, I spoke

[1:07:25] with Gary about it,

[1:07:26] but I guess that's.

[1:07:28] Great support,

[1:07:29] um, organization

[1:07:30] for you here.

[1:07:31] And I, you know,

[1:07:32] obviously started

[1:07:33] with Terry Koska

[1:07:35] and RCS and really

[1:07:35] got, got some runway

[1:07:37] there with those

[1:07:38] guys and it sort

[1:07:39] of matured or got

[1:07:40] to a point where

[1:07:41] it sort of deserved

[1:07:42] its own little,

[1:07:43] little thing.

[1:07:44] But it's, it's,

[1:07:44] um, it's, it's,

[1:07:47] there's a, in the,

[1:07:48] the course we're at

[1:07:49] and the, the, the,

[1:07:51] I won't call it a

[1:07:51] textbook, but the,

[1:07:52] um, the manual, I

[1:07:53] guess, you know,

[1:07:54] the development is

[1:07:55] really solidifying.

[1:07:57] Um.

[1:07:58] The practices and

[1:07:59] the community.

[1:08:01] That's, um, is there

[1:08:02] anything you wanna

[1:08:03] sort of add to that,

[1:08:04] um, so that people

[1:08:06] understand that,

[1:08:07] you know, there's

[1:08:08] a support group

[1:08:09] here in Australia.

[1:08:09] They don't have

[1:08:10] to wait for you

[1:08:10] to turn up every

[1:08:11] party six months.

[1:08:12] No, absolutely.

[1:08:14] Um, no, uh, Terry,

[1:08:16] uh, Ker as you, as

[1:08:17] you mentioned, and,

[1:08:18] um, senior members

[1:08:20] of, of resource

[1:08:22] consulting services

[1:08:23] of RCS, uh, back

[1:08:26] in 2010, recognized

[1:08:27] that the importance

[1:08:30] of bringing this

[1:08:32] work, uh, centrally

[1:08:33] into regenerative

[1:08:34] practices and

[1:08:36] I think really

[1:08:37] went, went a long

[1:08:39] way out and very

[1:08:41] courageously brought

[1:08:42] it into the menu

[1:08:42] of, of offerings,

[1:08:45] uh, alongside of

[1:08:47] mob grazing and,

[1:08:48] uh, pasture cropping

[1:08:50] and low stress,

[1:08:51] stock handling,

[1:08:52] and all of, all

[1:08:53] of the things

[1:08:54] that they, uh.

[1:08:57] Uh, supported

[1:08:58] and, and helped

[1:08:59] come to public

[1:09:00] attention and really

[1:09:03] normalizing it in

[1:09:05] the agricultural

[1:09:06] community, uh,

[1:09:08] as just something

[1:09:08] that one did

[1:09:09] not something

[1:09:10] extraordinary

[1:09:10] or unusual, but

[1:09:12] just, uh, the next

[1:09:15] training to take

[1:09:16] for, for people

[1:09:17] managing land.

[1:09:19] Um, and so as time

[1:09:22] has gone on, uh,

[1:09:23] I think we've had

[1:09:24] about 500 people

[1:09:25] coming through.

[1:09:26] Mm-hmm.

[1:09:28] Uh, the trainings

[1:09:29] and applying

[1:09:30] it at home.

[1:09:31] And

[1:09:34] I've personally

[1:09:35] been on close

[1:09:37] to 250 farms.

[1:09:40] Uh, and during that

[1:09:41] time, we've, uh,

[1:09:43] trained up, uh,

[1:09:44] for colleagues,

[1:09:46] uh, practitioners.

[1:09:47] Yeah.

[1:09:47] So we've What, Jim?

[1:09:49] Jim Green?

[1:09:50] Yes.

[1:09:50] Gary, Gary Kim,

[1:09:51] Deb, Kim McBride.

[1:09:54] So we've got four,

[1:09:56] uh, practitioners in

[1:09:58] the field now, uh,

[1:09:59] doing the work and

[1:10:00] starting to teach.

[1:10:02] Um, and our agenda

[1:10:03] is to rapidly

[1:10:04] expand our, uh,

[1:10:09] opportunities for

[1:10:10] people to, uh,

[1:10:13] get up to speed as

[1:10:14] practitioners and

[1:10:15] start sharing the

[1:10:16] work themselves.

[1:10:16] So, uh, very

[1:10:18] exciting.

[1:10:18] We've sort of

[1:10:19] reached a, a

[1:10:20] threshold where

[1:10:21] we can, I think,

[1:10:22] exponentially

[1:10:23] grow and share.

[1:10:25] Um, uh, very

[1:10:27] much supported by

[1:10:28] marvelous advisory

[1:10:30] Board and, uh, huge

[1:10:32] support from people

[1:10:33] who've, who've

[1:10:33] taken the trainings

[1:10:34] and like yourself

[1:10:36] come back and

[1:10:37] wanting to share,

[1:10:38] share them with,

[1:10:39] with the public.

[1:10:42] So our agenda

[1:10:43] is to present.

[1:10:46] This work in

[1:10:47] the most simple,

[1:10:48] authentic, natural

[1:10:50] way so that people

[1:10:51] can take it and use

[1:10:53] it for themselves

[1:10:54] at home, in their

[1:10:55] families, in

[1:10:56] their communities,

[1:10:58] at work, in the

[1:10:58] office, on the

[1:10:59] farm, if they're

[1:11:00] in agriculture.

[1:11:02] Um, but just

[1:11:04] keep it simple.

[1:11:05] Let it be helpful,

[1:11:06] let it be normal and

[1:11:07] let it ultimately

[1:11:08] speak for itself.

[1:11:11] One last question,

[1:11:12] 'cause I'm

[1:11:12] conscious of time.

[1:11:12] We've got, we've

[1:11:13] got steaks,

[1:11:14] you've ordered

[1:11:14] the peppercorn,

[1:11:15] the whatever,

[1:11:16] whatever, whatever.

[1:11:17] Steak with

[1:11:18] peppercorn.

[1:11:18] I've got whatever

[1:11:19] steak there

[1:11:19] is with Diane.

[1:11:21] Could be T-bone,

[1:11:22] could be scotch.

[1:11:23] We'll find out,

[1:11:24] we'll find out.

[1:11:24] Um, Patrick, one

[1:11:26] last question.

[1:11:27] Um, what has been

[1:11:30] your, we haven't

[1:11:30] touched on in little

[1:11:32] chit chat today,

[1:11:33] but you, you, you've

[1:11:34] sort of touched

[1:11:34] on quickly in the

[1:11:37] last two days,

[1:11:38] and I know there's

[1:11:39] probably more.

[1:11:40] Tomorrow.

[1:11:42] What has been the

[1:11:43] most, um, hair

[1:11:45] raising, if you

[1:11:48] are, if you're

[1:11:49] happy to speak

[1:11:49] about it, in a big,

[1:11:50] big spooky house

[1:11:51] like this, the most

[1:11:52] hair raising, um,

[1:11:56] experience you've

[1:11:57] had where you've had

[1:11:58] to move on a, um,

[1:12:04] an entity or a, or

[1:12:05] a poltergeist or a

[1:12:07] a, um, a lost soul.

[1:12:09] Are you going to

[1:12:10] talk about, we don't

[1:12:11] have to, maybe it's,

[1:12:13] maybe don't tell us

[1:12:14] about the, the, the

[1:12:14] most hair raising,

[1:12:15] maybe the, if that's

[1:12:16] two hair raising

[1:12:17] to even contemplate

[1:12:19] again, I dunno.

[1:12:20] Given that you said

[1:12:21] today, you said

[1:12:22] you'd think you'd,

[1:12:23] you'd probably

[1:12:24] mo help move on.

[1:12:26] Some thousands of

[1:12:27] it's become spirits.

[1:12:28] It was the one

[1:12:29] part of the work

[1:12:30] that I didn't wanna

[1:12:30] do when I started

[1:12:31] Charlie, really?

[1:12:32] And I discovered it

[1:12:33] was a part of the

[1:12:35] work in demand work

[1:12:35] that I absolutely

[1:12:36] had to do.

[1:12:36] 'cause I couldn't

[1:12:37] get houses right

[1:12:39] and landscapes

[1:12:40] clear without

[1:12:41] attending to that.

[1:12:42] And so,

[1:12:43] yeah, it was,

[1:12:45] it was an

[1:12:46] inevitable part

[1:12:47] of the job scope.

[1:12:48] Uh, the so-called

[1:12:49] spirit release of

[1:12:50] Earthbound souls who

[1:12:52] are really just folk

[1:12:52] like you and me, who

[1:12:55] at point of death

[1:12:56] for whatever reason.

[1:12:58] Of confusion,

[1:12:59] disorientation,

[1:13:00] attachment or

[1:13:01] fear, um, didn't,

[1:13:05] didn't transition

[1:13:05] fully into the

[1:13:06] heaven realm and,

[1:13:08] um, stayed, uh,

[1:13:10] around the, uh,

[1:13:11] the earthly realm.

[1:13:13] Um, and so the

[1:13:16] process is a very

[1:13:17] gentle, respectful

[1:13:18] one, not of sending

[1:13:19] away but of.

[1:13:21] Uh, facilitating

[1:13:22] a return home.

[1:13:24] And so we surround

[1:13:25] them with love and

[1:13:26] we create a bridge

[1:13:27] between heaven

[1:13:28] and earth held by

[1:13:30] a celestial being

[1:13:31] called a psychopomp,

[1:13:32] whose job purpose

[1:13:34] includes safe

[1:13:36] transition for us

[1:13:37] between realms.

[1:13:38] And then we invite

[1:13:38] the most loved and

[1:13:39] trusted members

[1:13:41] of friends and

[1:13:42] family group in

[1:13:43] the heaven round

[1:13:44] to come meet and

[1:13:46] greet and take him

[1:13:47] home to best party

[1:13:49] ever where all the

[1:13:50] drinks were on God.

[1:13:52] Um, so very loving

[1:13:53] and respectful.

[1:13:55] Um, and when

[1:13:56] done in a very

[1:13:57] gentle and loving

[1:13:58] and respectful

[1:13:58] way, there's

[1:13:59] not generally

[1:13:59] much resistance.

[1:14:01] Mm-hmm.

[1:14:02] Um, uh, some

[1:14:05] ghosts are a

[1:14:06] bit territorial.

[1:14:08] Um, uh, some

[1:14:11] ghosts are, are

[1:14:12] fearful and, and

[1:14:13] therefore, uh,

[1:14:14] can be aggressive.

[1:14:16] Um, and, um,

[1:14:20] sometimes they're

[1:14:21] muddled up in

[1:14:22] battlefield sites

[1:14:23] or massacre sites

[1:14:25] and have been

[1:14:26] around for a long

[1:14:26] time, so they need

[1:14:28] rather gentle and

[1:14:29] careful handling.

[1:14:31] Um, but for the

[1:14:32] most part, if,

[1:14:33] if, if we approach

[1:14:34] 'em with dignity

[1:14:36] and respect and,

[1:14:37] um, then things,

[1:14:40] uh, transition in

[1:14:41] a fairly peaceful

[1:14:42] and gentle way.

[1:14:43] So we don't like to

[1:14:45] provoke, uh, strong

[1:14:47] reactions and if

[1:14:49] we do, we know we

[1:14:50] haven't done it.

[1:14:50] Right.

[1:14:52] And, and what is it

[1:14:53] about their presence

[1:14:55] on a farm or a, I

[1:14:56] mean, if you are,

[1:14:57] you are, you are

[1:14:57] taken to a farm

[1:14:58] to do a general.

[1:15:01] Check over and you

[1:15:03] know, there might

[1:15:04] be some, the farmer

[1:15:05] might say, look,

[1:15:06] I'm, I've, I need

[1:15:07] some blessings done

[1:15:07] and I need some,

[1:15:09] you know, things are

[1:15:10] a bit off and, you

[1:15:12] know, I don't know

[1:15:13] whether they need

[1:15:13] more phosphorus or

[1:15:14] I, I don't know.

[1:15:15] You know, like

[1:15:15] there's lots of

[1:15:16] reasons why I guess

[1:15:17] someone would,

[1:15:17] might engage you

[1:15:18] to come to a farm.

[1:15:19] What, what is the,

[1:15:20] um, what's the thing

[1:15:22] about having a, um,

[1:15:24] a spirit who's still

[1:15:25] around that that

[1:15:26] is, that is, I mean,

[1:15:30] that is necessary

[1:15:31] to have them gone

[1:15:32] to then cleanse

[1:15:33] the whole place.

[1:15:34] Is it, is it just.

[1:15:36] Not the bad apple,

[1:15:37] but is it just

[1:15:38] like you can't

[1:15:39] do it without

[1:15:39] fixing everything?

[1:15:40] Or is it if they

[1:15:41] stay, they can undo

[1:15:42] what you've done?

[1:15:43] Or what, what's the

[1:15:44] sort of, I mean, do

[1:15:46] some, do we need to

[1:15:48] get rid of them all?

[1:15:49] If they're not

[1:15:50] causing trouble,

[1:15:51] is it, is it in

[1:15:52] their best interest?

[1:15:53] Are we doing them a

[1:15:53] favor and ultimately

[1:15:55] to get rid of them?

[1:15:56] These, these, these

[1:15:57] are absolutely

[1:15:57] essential questions.

[1:15:59] Um, so, um.

[1:16:04] Uh, firstly, I

[1:16:06] think we have a duty

[1:16:07] of care to them.

[1:16:08] Mm. And, um, if

[1:16:10] they're in an

[1:16:12] earthbound state, it

[1:16:13] means they're stuck

[1:16:15] and, uh, they're

[1:16:17] in a sort of state

[1:16:18] of arrested, uh,

[1:16:20] delayed development

[1:16:22] 'cause they can't be

[1:16:23] fully self-expressed

[1:16:24] while they're still

[1:16:25] attached to their

[1:16:26] previous life.

[1:16:28] Um, the natural

[1:16:29] process for us is

[1:16:30] a closure of life

[1:16:31] to, uh, restore

[1:16:33] return to soul,

[1:16:35] family heaven

[1:16:35] realm, review,

[1:16:38] uh, and take, uh,

[1:16:40] full learning and

[1:16:41] wisdom from the

[1:16:42] life we've had.

[1:16:44] And then, um, from

[1:16:46] that space move on

[1:16:47] either to another

[1:16:48] incarnation or,

[1:16:49] or to some other,

[1:16:51] uh, business that

[1:16:52] the soul has.

[1:16:53] So, um, the natural

[1:16:56] flow of things is,

[1:16:57] is for us to move

[1:16:58] in and outta lives.

[1:17:01] Um, and, um,

[1:17:05] so if, if, if

[1:17:06] we're stuck,

[1:17:07] it's considered a

[1:17:08] pathology of death

[1:17:09] and we're, we're

[1:17:10] facilitating a

[1:17:11] midwifing of the

[1:17:12] soul back into

[1:17:13] heaven, just as we

[1:17:14] would midwife the

[1:17:15] soul into, into

[1:17:17] human, human life.

[1:17:20] So I think first and

[1:17:22] foremost it's, it's

[1:17:23] our duty of care.

[1:17:24] And you and I

[1:17:25] wouldn't wanna

[1:17:25] get stuck on the

[1:17:26] street 'cause we

[1:17:26] missed the bus.

[1:17:28] Uh, and we'd hope

[1:17:29] somebody would

[1:17:29] spot us and.

[1:17:31] Call us a taxi.

[1:17:34] So first for

[1:17:35] them and then

[1:17:36] in terms of, uh,

[1:17:38] their presence,

[1:17:40] um, because their

[1:17:42] mind is still

[1:17:44] engaged with the

[1:17:45] circumstances of

[1:17:46] their own life,

[1:17:47] they'll tend to

[1:17:48] hold the creativity

[1:17:50] and life energy

[1:17:51] of a place back.

[1:17:53] Um, and their

[1:17:54] agendas will still

[1:17:56] be present, um, and

[1:17:59] engaged and active.

[1:18:00] They may seek

[1:18:00] to, um, put

[1:18:03] thoughts into our

[1:18:04] mind to organize

[1:18:05] circumstances as

[1:18:07] they believe best.

[1:18:08] But once they're

[1:18:10] free and clear and

[1:18:10] in heaven, then

[1:18:11] they can truly be

[1:18:12] our best guides

[1:18:14] and advisors and

[1:18:15] our friends in,

[1:18:16] in high places.

[1:18:17] 'cause with that

[1:18:18] perspective, they

[1:18:19] can support our,

[1:18:21] uh, lives rather

[1:18:23] than trying to

[1:18:24] fulfill their

[1:18:26] lives through us.

[1:18:28] So they can distort

[1:18:30] agenda, hold a place

[1:18:31] back, lock down

[1:18:33] creativity, and um,

[1:18:38] um, be mischievous

[1:18:39] too, I guess

[1:18:41] depending on, on

[1:18:42] their personality.

[1:18:43] Mm-hmm.

[1:18:43] Um,

[1:18:46] it's, there are

[1:18:49] happy or peaceful

[1:18:50] ghosts, but, um,

[1:18:52] uh, ignorance

[1:18:53] can be bliss, but

[1:18:54] it's not that kind

[1:18:55] of bliss that we

[1:18:56] want, I think.

[1:18:58] Mm-hmm.

[1:18:58] Yeah.

[1:18:59] So generally we,

[1:19:00] we seek to, uh,

[1:19:02] connect, engage,

[1:19:03] uh, and lovingly,

[1:19:05] uh, as we would

[1:19:07] with our kids,

[1:19:08] with our friends,

[1:19:10] uh, support their

[1:19:11] life and afterlife

[1:19:13] processes being,

[1:19:14] um, uh, fruitful

[1:19:16] and fulfilling

[1:19:17] and engaged.

[1:19:18] Mm. Because they,

[1:19:19] they can't re

[1:19:20] reincarnate if

[1:19:21] this, they haven't

[1:19:22] got to the next,

[1:19:23] that's right.

[1:19:24] The next bit.

[1:19:24] You're, you're,

[1:19:25] it's, it's, it's,

[1:19:26] it's an arresting

[1:19:27] in time and space

[1:19:28] and very frustrating

[1:19:30] for them because

[1:19:31] they don't have a

[1:19:32] body to engage in

[1:19:34] physical realm,

[1:19:35] but they're still

[1:19:36] in physical realm.

[1:19:37] Mm. So it's a sort

[1:19:37] of disempowered,

[1:19:38] disengaged.

[1:19:40] Um, rather

[1:19:42] unsatisfactory

[1:19:43] state to be in.

[1:19:43] I think well talk

[1:19:46] about physical,

[1:19:46] real and un

[1:19:47] unsatisfactory

[1:19:48] states.

[1:19:48] We must get

[1:19:49] to our stakes.

[1:19:52] What do you reckon?

[1:19:53] That would be great.

[1:19:54] That's been awesome.

[1:19:54] We've fronted a

[1:19:55] little bit over

[1:19:55] time, Patrick.

[1:19:57] I can't, I've been

[1:19:58] waiting years to

[1:19:59] do this and I'm not

[1:20:01] dissatisfied, but I

[1:20:03] do feel the need to

[1:20:04] catch up with you

[1:20:05] again in Vermont or

[1:20:08] Edinburgh, anywhere

[1:20:09] you care to.

[1:20:10] One last thing I'll

[1:20:11] say is that I read

[1:20:13] a wonderful book by

[1:20:15] man, you probably

[1:20:16] know he's Scottish

[1:20:18] and he is, um,

[1:20:20] rock ROC someone.

[1:20:22] Yes.

[1:20:23] Robert Ogleby.

[1:20:24] Crombie.

[1:20:24] Yeah.

[1:20:24] And he's, I

[1:20:25] read his book.

[1:20:26] Um, Trent Chapman

[1:20:27] actually gave

[1:20:27] letter to me a

[1:20:28] couple years ago

[1:20:29] and his book about.

[1:20:31] Relationship with

[1:20:32] Nature Spirits and

[1:20:33] talking to Pan in

[1:20:34] the Botanic Gardens

[1:20:35] in, or the Royal

[1:20:36] Garden or whatever

[1:20:37] they're called

[1:20:37] in Ed Rock Raw.

[1:20:38] Yes.

[1:20:38] Which I've been to.

[1:20:39] Mm. And I've read

[1:20:40] the book after I've

[1:20:41] been there, but I'm

[1:20:41] gonna go back and

[1:20:42] try and find the

[1:20:43] little Benchy sat at

[1:20:45] when Pan turned up.

[1:20:46] Mm. Fascinating.

[1:20:47] So, I so recommend

[1:20:48] anyone who's

[1:20:49] navigating this

[1:20:51] stuff and elementals

[1:20:53] and nature spirits,

[1:20:54] and it's, it is

[1:20:55] so well written,

[1:20:56] beautifully written.

[1:20:57] And, um.

[1:20:58] Good yarn.

[1:20:59] Wonderful book.

[1:21:00] Yeah.

[1:21:00] Support that

[1:21:01] recommendation.

[1:21:02] I think it's

[1:21:03] been published

[1:21:04] and republished.

[1:21:04] And republished.

[1:21:05] It's in three or

[1:21:06] four different

[1:21:06] titles.

[1:21:07] Yep.

[1:21:07] Um, what's his name?

[1:21:09] R uh, Robert

[1:21:11] Ogilvy Crombie.

[1:21:12] Crombie.

[1:21:12] That's it.

[1:21:13] Um, and it was

[1:21:15] the gentleman

[1:21:15] on the phone.

[1:21:16] It was

[1:21:16] conversations with.

[1:21:18] Varies.

[1:21:19] I think it's

[1:21:20] currently

[1:21:21] conversations

[1:21:21] with nature

[1:21:22] spirits, but yeah.

[1:21:23] Um, yes, if, if, if,

[1:21:26] if your listeners

[1:21:28] look for Robert

[1:21:28] Ogilvy Crombie,

[1:21:29] they'll, they'll

[1:21:30] find the book

[1:21:31] easily and it's

[1:21:32] available both in

[1:21:33] print and Kindle,

[1:21:34] uh, versions.

[1:21:35] And he had quite

[1:21:36] interesting life

[1:21:37] himself, didn't

[1:21:37] he before he,

[1:21:38] he seventies?

[1:21:38] It was, it was

[1:21:39] in his seventies

[1:21:39] when he actually

[1:21:40] was sitting there.

[1:21:40] Was he quite late

[1:21:41] in, late in life

[1:21:42] and he kind of

[1:21:43] took him that long?

[1:21:44] I don't remember

[1:21:45] quite what age he

[1:21:46] was, but he, uh,

[1:21:47] does he say a, a

[1:21:49] very interesting

[1:21:50] life mathematician,

[1:21:52] scientist,

[1:21:53] musician, uh,

[1:21:57] theater director.

[1:21:58] Hmm.

[1:21:59] And he took himself

[1:22:00] over 10 years and in

[1:22:01] a hut with no power.

[1:22:02] And he did.

[1:22:03] I think he had

[1:22:04] tuberculosis and

[1:22:05] had to go and,

[1:22:06] excuse me, disappear

[1:22:07] and live in cold.

[1:22:09] I think that's

[1:22:09] why I couldn't.

[1:22:09] Cold climate.

[1:22:10] Yeah.

[1:22:11] Crazy.

[1:22:13] Um, Scotland's good

[1:22:14] for cold climate.

[1:22:15] Scotland's

[1:22:15] does a really

[1:22:17] well, Patrick.

[1:22:18] Let's get

[1:22:18] ourselves going.

[1:22:19] Um, so enjoyed our

[1:22:20] chat and, um, we'll

[1:22:23] do this again.

[1:22:24] We'll do chapters

[1:22:26] 2, 3, 4, and five.

[1:22:27] Thank you, Sharon,

[1:22:28] and remind me to

[1:22:29] get this off your

[1:22:29] phone tomorrow.

[1:22:32] Pleasure to

[1:22:32] speak to you.

[1:22:37] If you enjoyed this

[1:22:38] episode, we'd love

[1:22:39] your support by

[1:22:40] subscribing, rating,

[1:22:41] and reviewing the

[1:22:41] regenerative journey

[1:22:43] on your favorite

[1:22:43] podcast platform.

[1:22:45] You help us reach

[1:22:45] more people and keep

[1:22:46] the show thriving

[1:22:47] for seasons to come.

[1:22:49] Each time you

[1:22:50] listen, you are

[1:22:50] choosing to make

[1:22:51] a positive shift

[1:22:52] in your own world.

[1:22:53] And if an episode

[1:22:54] speaks to you,

[1:22:54] please pass it on

[1:22:55] to friends, family,

[1:22:56] or communities

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[1:22:58] inspired to.

[1:22:59] For more details

[1:23:00] and episodes, visit

[1:23:02] www.charlieyanet.com

[1:23:05] au.

Charlie Arnott
ArtistCharlie Arnott

Charlie Arnott is an eighth-generation Boorowa farmer, educator and podcaster who has led his family's farm, Hanaminno, from industrial farming to biodynamic, regenerative practice…

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AnimismMediumshipRegenerative-farmingSubtle-energyPatrick-mcmanaway

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Frequently Asked Questions

In his conversation with Charlie Arnott, McManaway describes animism as the lived sense that weather, plants, animals, soil and water respond to human thoughts. He argues that sustainable cultures across history engaged with this relationship as an everyday reality rather than a fantasy.
McManaway claims they can, provided we recognise imagination as a real faculty of relationship rather than an escape into fantasy. He presents this as a practice to be developed and tested through attention, not a belief to be accepted on authority.
The episode description states that his father, a military officer, used psychic practices for military strategy during the Second World War. The published summary does not detail the methods or outcomes, so the full interview is the place to find more.
The episode description says he retired after one year of a medical degree to dedicate himself to holistic environmental work. The material does not explain his reasons for the change.
He was born in rural Scotland to parents who set up a centre in 1959 for spiritual healing and mediumship. He said the practice drew on natural therapy and life-force energies, and that witchcraft laws in the UK were abolished only in 1952.
Subtle energy is the practice Patrick McManaway teaches, which works with life-force energies in landscapes, health and livelihoods. In this interview it connects to his views on animism, imagination and blessing water and singing into land.

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