Transcript
[0:01] Today on the Mel Robbins podcast, my
[0:03] husband Chris and I [music] are
[0:04] reflecting on 30 years of marriage and
[0:08] sharing the three things about
[0:10] relationships we sure wish somebody had
[0:12] told us sooner. I get angry and vent and
[0:15] get [music] flooded and then I'm a jerk.
[0:17] >> Welcome to our marriage.
[0:19] >> I've been with you the majority of my
[0:21] life
[0:22] >> and I love you more than ever.
[0:25] >> Okay, we're not going to get through
[0:26] this. Okay, I love you, too. [laughter]
[0:27] Okay, so here. Should we start this?
[0:31] Hey, it's your friend Mel and my husband
[0:34] Christopher Robbins. Welcome to the Mel
[0:36] Robbins podcast. I am absolutely
[0:40] thrilled that you're here for a once-
[0:42] ina-lifetime conversation because today
[0:46] my husband and I are talking and
[0:48] reflecting on our 30th wedding
[0:50] anniversary. And this is only going to
[0:52] happen once. Not because we're breaking
[0:54] up, but because like you only have your
[0:55] 30th wedding anniversary once. And it's
[0:58] such an honor to be together with you,
[1:00] to spend this time with you. If you're
[1:01] new here, or if maybe somebody you're in
[1:05] a relationship with sent you this
[1:06] episode, or they've trapped you in a car
[1:08] with them right now and you're listening
[1:10] and this is their form of therapy or a
[1:12] date, welcome. I've done that to my
[1:14] husband, too. Welcome to the Mel Robbins
[1:16] Podcast family. You are going to love
[1:19] this conversation because today my
[1:22] husband Chris and I are celebrating our
[1:24] 30th wedding anniversary with you and
[1:27] we're going to share three lessons that
[1:31] we have learned over the last three
[1:33] decades. These are lessons that I wish
[1:37] somebody had just boom summed up for us
[1:41] when we got married 30 years ago. We
[1:44] learned this stuff the hard way. It
[1:46] explains so much about the years of our
[1:48] life, Chris, where we were really
[1:51] struggling. It also explains the roadmap
[1:54] for how you find your way back to the
[1:57] person that you fell in love with.
[1:59] [snorts] And so, I'm super excited about
[2:02] this. Welcome to the podcast, Chris.
[2:04] >> Thanks. Thanks for having me. I'm happy
[2:06] to be here and and I'm looking forward
[2:08] to these little lessons because they do
[2:10] help crystallize all that we did go
[2:12] through.
[2:13] >> Yeah. Yeah. Boy, we went through a lot.
[2:17] >> Yes, we have.
[2:18] >> It's impossible to be in a long-term
[2:20] relationship and not experience so many
[2:24] ups and downs. And what does 30 years
[2:27] feel like for you? Like when you really
[2:29] think about 30 years going by? And if
[2:32] you're brand new to the show, you know,
[2:33] I should just say that we also have
[2:35] three kids. They're uh 27, 26, and 21
[2:39] years old. And um we have been through
[2:44] so many ups and downs and been in and
[2:46] out of financial crisis and we've both
[2:49] been fired from jobs and struggled and
[2:52] had moments where we feel lost. We've
[2:53] have kids that have struggled. We've
[2:55] navigated your father dying. Like just
[2:58] 30 years of your life, you navigate a
[3:01] lot. When you think about the fact that
[3:04] we've been married for 30 years,
[3:09] what do you what comes to mind for you,
[3:10] Chris? Honestly, the visual of like a
[3:13] flip book where you flip it through and
[3:15] it's like
[3:17] and all of those scenes that in the
[3:22] moment feel so acute, so profound.
[3:25] Either whether you're elated or were
[3:29] feeling on top or feeling at the bottom,
[3:32] they all
[3:35] they all are meaningful and
[3:39] the speed at which they have passed is
[3:41] quite remarkable. Honestly, to think
[3:43] that it's been 30 years is a bit
[3:46] jaw-dropping. You know, when you first
[3:48] fall in love, you
[3:51] have this assumption because of all the
[3:55] fabulous love chemicals, that's a
[3:57] technical term I just made up, that are
[3:59] flooding through your body and the
[4:00] attraction that you kind of gaslight
[4:02] yourself into thinking, oh, it's always
[4:04] going to be like this. And if there's
[4:06] one thing that we've learned the hard
[4:08] way and everybody learns in life is that
[4:12] things are always changing and that the
[4:16] true test of your relationship is not
[4:18] how you are together when things are
[4:20] good. I mean you could be with a not
[4:22] great person in a not great relationship
[4:25] but if things are going really well you
[4:27] don't really have to lean on the
[4:29] relationship. The true test is what
[4:31] happens when things fall apart. When you
[4:35] lose the job, when a parent dies, when a
[4:37] child is sick, when the pressure hits,
[4:41] when the bank account is bouncing,
[4:45] when life makes you hard, and life does
[4:49] that. I I'm already crying. I don't know
[4:52] cuz I'm just thinking about like how
[4:54] many freaking hard periods of our life
[4:57] we've had. And um
[5:01] one of the things that was that I really
[5:03] struggled with in our relationship is
[5:05] how often when life hardened me, I
[5:08] brought that edge into our relationship.
[5:12] And if you're going to go the distance
[5:15] with somebody, it's really because you
[5:17] have picked somebody that you can do the
[5:20] difficult things with, that you can
[5:22] struggle with, that you can lean on. And
[5:26] when I look back, one of the biggest
[5:28] lessons that I've learned, and I'm going
[5:32] to explain it first in my words, and
[5:33] then I'm going to share the way one of
[5:35] the incredible relationship experts
[5:38] summed it up, is when life got hard, I
[5:42] became very hard on you.
[5:45] When
[5:46] life really
[5:49] started to beat me up, I started to take
[5:53] it out on you.
[5:57] And I think that's an extremely common
[6:00] mistake that people make. And if you
[6:03] stop and reflect and think about your
[6:05] own relationship, how often you've
[6:06] blamed stress of the day. In fact, I
[6:08] just did this last night on
[6:11] how emotional or how volatile or how
[6:15] just mean you might be to the person
[6:18] that you love. And the first lesson that
[6:22] I really learned that is both the reason
[6:26] why relationships end and it's also the
[6:30] simple
[6:32] lesson that brings you back to the
[6:36] person you fell in love with. And it's
[6:39] this.
[6:41] You're my favorite person.
[6:44] That is the best relationship advice I
[6:46] have ever heard. Four words. you're my
[6:49] favorite person.
[6:51] And so the first takeaway for me is if
[6:54] you're in a relationship, can you say
[6:56] that about the person that you're with?
[6:58] Because if you fundamentally
[7:01] have never felt like this is your
[7:02] favorite person, then you're in the
[7:04] wrong relationship.
[7:06] And if you're going through a very rough
[7:08] time, what I love about these four
[7:10] words, you're my favorite person, is
[7:13] this is the like lifeline. It's like a
[7:17] tow rope that you can grab on to to pull
[7:20] you back to what is still true. Because
[7:25] even when life is hard, that person that
[7:28] you fell in love with is still in there.
[7:31] And I also love this question because
[7:34] you not only ask yourself, you're my
[7:36] favorite person. Am is Chris my favorite
[7:38] person? Of course, I just hate my life
[7:40] right now, but he's still my favorite
[7:42] person. And then you ask yourself the
[7:44] second layer, which is, am I treating
[7:45] him like my favorite person?
[7:49] >> No.
[7:50] >> That's kind of where the rubber meets
[7:52] the road, I think, for me. Cuz when I
[7:53] think about when we first met,
[7:56] Absolutely. You were my favorite. All
[7:58] the way up until,
[8:00] in fact, after we
[8:03] got married, which was a couple years
[8:06] later. But in the in that time frame,
[8:09] you are my favorite every moment of
[8:11] every day because
[8:15] in to some extent we really hadn't hit
[8:19] anything hard. We had no concept
[8:23] of how we might harden or how we might
[8:27] behave in those tough times. which I
[8:30] think is what makes relationships
[8:33] challenging cuz in the early days it is
[8:35] a honeymoon period as they call it and
[8:39] everybody's everybody's favorite until
[8:41] the hits the fan.
[8:43] >> I know the moment that that you know
[8:45] what hit fan and I you started going
[8:47] from my favorite person to
[8:51] not my favorite person to somebody that
[8:55] I was mad at. And it was when we were in
[8:58] our 20s and we had met in New York City
[9:00] and we were early in our careers and you
[9:04] decided to make a career change and then
[9:06] you didn't like that and then you
[9:08] decided to launch a business and it
[9:11] didn't do well and then you decided to
[9:14] scramble and get a job and there was a
[9:16] point where we were so struggling with
[9:19] paying our bills. I was a public
[9:21] defender working for legal aid. you had
[9:23] not uh had a job for a while that do you
[9:26] remember this? We were talking about
[9:27] moving in with your parents
[9:31] as a new married couple and we were
[9:34] going to have to move into like the
[9:36] basement walkout part of their like
[9:39] retirement house.
[9:41] >> I don't actually remember that. But it's
[9:43] funny that you bring this up because
[9:45] when you asked me to think about a
[9:47] moment in time,
[9:49] >> that's about the same time frame that I
[9:52] thought about myself both
[9:55] in in in the context of me also hating
[10:00] beginning to hate on myself.
[10:05] Um, but also recognizing that that's
[10:09] when I stopped listening to you.
[10:13] Because because No, no, no. It had
[10:15] nothing to do with you. I was so focused
[10:18] on me and what I thought I should be
[10:23] achieving or producing that
[10:28] you you you barely even existed. And so
[10:31] I really wasn't listening to you or your
[10:35] needs or your interests. And so anyway,
[10:38] when I was thinking about that incident,
[10:40] that was really where things started to
[10:44] unwind a little bit when I said, "Hey,
[10:46] you know what? I want to go get my MBA
[10:48] and I want to do it in Boston and I want
[10:51] to, you know, move out of New York
[10:53] City." And you said, "Are you kidding
[10:55] me? Like, I love my job. This is great.
[10:57] Why are we leaving?" And you were
[10:59] miserable when we moved up there. And
[11:02] honestly, in the moment, it it I was so
[11:06] blind to what I thought I should have
[11:08] been doing for you that I was oblivious
[11:11] to the fact that you were even unhappy
[11:13] with the idea.
[11:14] >> Wow. You've never even brought this up
[11:16] in therapy before.
[11:18] >> No, but you me to think about this. And
[11:20] >> you know what's crazy about this, Chris,
[11:22] is that I always called you stoic. I
[11:25] called you a thinker. I called you uh a
[11:29] slow processor when I was really annoyed
[11:31] with you. I uh just sort of put your
[11:37] sequestering
[11:39] into a box that was about you and I had
[11:44] no idea that you tuned me out. And what
[11:48] happens when that starts to happen is
[11:51] for somebody like me, I just get louder
[11:53] cuz then I feel alone and unsafe. And
[11:56] for somebody like you, you just
[11:58] sequester more into your head. Like I
[12:00] think that there was like what a full
[12:01] decade where we were like this.
[12:04] >> Yeah.
[12:05] >> You think it was longer?
[12:06] >> No, that sounds about right. Anyway, 10
[12:08] years. But that's enough to cause enough
[12:09] damage. I mean, and it did.
[12:12] >> And you know, the thing that's important
[12:14] about this is
[12:16] this is, I think, a period of our
[12:18] marriage that you would describe as we
[12:21] were just roommates.
[12:23] We would say that we do logistics really
[12:26] well. So, we can get the kids where they
[12:28] need to go. We can get the dogs fed. We
[12:30] can get the groceries on the table. We
[12:32] can get we can show up at the the, you
[12:34] know, the holiday celebration. We can
[12:36] check the boxes. We can
[12:37] >> I don't think the roommate phase set in
[12:40] that early because we were beginning to
[12:42] have kids. And so, we were learning a
[12:44] new
[12:46] a new challenge of being parents to
[12:49] newborns. And so the roommate thing
[12:51] didn't quite settle in until I think
[12:54] once all three or at least two had
[12:57] arrived and then it was and then the
[12:59] sequestering began for sure. Well, I
[13:03] think we're I I'm kind of using a word
[13:05] maybe that doesn't resonate. It felt
[13:07] like logistics and life took over and
[13:10] our connection
[13:12] and this these four words, you're my
[13:15] favorite person,
[13:17] stopped being the central organizing
[13:20] principle of our marriage. And I truly
[13:25] believe that these four words as a
[13:28] lesson and a philosophy that you can
[13:30] anchor yourself to immediately reveals
[13:34] whether or not the connection is frayed.
[13:37] Because if you don't feel that way about
[13:39] your partner and you once did, that's a
[13:42] sign that life has hardened you and
[13:46] you're in this phase where you've pulled
[13:48] apart and being able to then go, how do
[13:53] I start treating this person like my
[13:55] favorite person again, even if things
[13:59] have gone down, even if there are still
[14:02] a lot of struggles, even if we are
[14:05] fighting about money, which we did for
[14:06] decades, absolute decades. But I want to
[14:10] uh play
[14:11] this moment from the Mel Robbins podcast
[14:14] when a world-renowned divorce attorney,
[14:18] James Ston,
[14:20] said those four words on the show. Like,
[14:24] at its core,
[14:26] marriage should boil down to to four
[14:29] words that I think
[14:31] I think are potentially the most
[14:33] beautiful words you could say to
[14:35] someone. and mean or have someone say to
[14:38] you and know they're true and that is
[14:41] you're my favorite person.
[14:43] >> Like what could be more beautiful than
[14:46] being told and knowing like that when
[14:48] this person says it, they mean it.
[14:50] You're my favorite person. And to say to
[14:53] someone back, "Yeah, you're my favorite
[14:56] person." Like what would be better in
[14:59] the world than having that, you know?
[15:00] And and so I like to think about kind of
[15:03] the end of things and then reverse
[15:06] engineer. And to me like at the end of
[15:08] your life, if you could look at another
[15:12] person and say, "You helped me become
[15:16] the most authentic version of myself and
[15:19] you're still my favorite person."
[15:22] That's the greatest wedding toast you
[15:24] could ever have. Like that's the
[15:25] greatest blessing you could have in your
[15:27] life and I think it'd be the greatest
[15:28] asset you could have in your life. Do
[15:30] you want to react to that?
[15:32] >> I think he just said that's the greatest
[15:35] wedding toast you could have. And that's
[15:38] my point is that
[15:41] when I boil down what
[15:46] has you be my favorite person.
[15:54] It was.
[15:59] And it does make me cry
[16:05] because I can say that
[16:16] in those first few days when we met,
[16:20] you
[16:24] brought out
[16:26] the authenticity in me.
[16:30] [snorts]
[16:32] I felt
[16:35] almost like somebody had
[16:39] unlocked the real me
[16:44] and that like the fake me was
[16:48] had gone away.
[16:51] And that that freedom I felt
[16:56] was definitely one of those things that
[16:59] made me
[17:02] feel like you were my favorite.
[17:08] What's interesting about that though is
[17:10] your point about hardening and then you
[17:13] get into
[17:15] let's now call it 30 years where we're
[17:18] going through the ups and the downs and
[17:20] the twists and the turns.
[17:23] And
[17:25] that's where the hard work is, I think,
[17:27] is being able to wake up and say, "This
[17:30] is originally why this person was my
[17:33] favorite." [laughter]
[17:35] and
[17:37] trying to presence that in the face of
[17:42] the tough stuff that's going on.
[17:44] >> Well, I think that's why the tough
[17:45] periods are so painful
[17:47] because when you fall in love and you
[17:50] fall in love with somebody who is truly
[17:53] your favorite person,
[17:55] they are your favorite person because of
[17:57] how being with them makes you feel about
[18:00] you.
[18:01] And that's why it's so painful
[18:05] when your favorite person turns on you
[18:08] and you start to feel
[18:12] >> as if
[18:15] either they are no longer your favorite
[18:17] person because of things they've done
[18:20] or because the world is just pressure
[18:22] testing you and you're now bringing it
[18:24] to the relationship and taking it out on
[18:26] them. or something has happened with you
[18:32] and you're no longer treating this
[18:33] person that you once treated as your
[18:35] favorite person,
[18:38] you don't treat him that way anymore.
[18:39] And one of the reasons why I was so
[18:41] struck by this advice that James Ston
[18:45] shared on the Mel Robbins podcast, cuz
[18:46] it kind of strikes you as odd. Why on
[18:48] earth would you get relationship advice
[18:50] from a worldrenowned divorce attorney?
[18:51] And he basically said, "Because who do
[18:53] you take a car to to fix it? A
[18:55] mechanic." Because a mechanic has seen
[18:57] everything break in a car. So it can a
[19:01] mechanic can spot the signs that things
[19:04] are headed towards a serious thing. They
[19:07] can head this can be fixed. This can't
[19:09] be fixed. This is a total wreckage. And
[19:12] one of the things that James also shared
[19:15] that I would love to share with you is
[19:20] the shest indicator of a divorce because
[19:24] it does tie to this first lesson. You're
[19:27] my favorite person. So let's hear James
[19:30] Ston reflecting on that.
[19:33] >> Like I often tell people to me the shest
[19:35] indicator of a divorce is not anything
[19:37] anyone says. It's a sound. And it's this
[19:40] sound. It's
[19:43] just that like like when the other
[19:46] person's talking and there's just this
[19:48] like like what? Yeah. What? What? Yeah.
[19:51] Okay. Like why are you bothering me with
[19:54] what you're saying?
[19:55] >> Or that like kind of eye rolling like
[19:58] it's just those subtle dis courtesies
[20:00] and disrespects. It's the tone. It's the
[20:04] body language. Like that's a huge piece
[20:06] is. So, I would when you're looking at
[20:08] signs, look at how you physically relate
[20:10] to each other. I mean, you've seen
[20:12] couples, I'm sure, where it's like, why
[20:15] are they even when they touch each
[20:16] other,
[20:17] >> it's like, you know, when you're first
[20:19] together, like you touch your skin and
[20:21] it's like an electric bolt through you
[20:23] of like, oh my god, this person touched
[20:25] me. There's like, oh my god, our legs
[20:26] touched. Like, it's just that. I mean,
[20:27] and thank God that passes or we just
[20:30] never get anything done, you know? But
[20:33] it's supposed to sort of pass and become
[20:35] like still something comfortable and
[20:37] connected
[20:38] >> because all that person maybe you don't
[20:40] like holding hands. That's okay. But
[20:41] maybe they're trying to connect with
[20:43] you.
[20:43] >> Yeah.
[20:44] >> So do you want to connect with them?
[20:46] >> Like and if it's that I don't like
[20:47] sweaty hands. Okay. So put your arm
[20:49] around me like you know lean in and do
[20:51] something like like meet each other
[20:52] halfway. There's a lot of these little
[20:54] tiny physical and verbal disconnections.
[20:58] >> I can immediately think of like five
[21:00] couples right now. Can't you Chris? like
[21:02] the eye roll, the you're bothering me.
[21:05] And I was that way with you
[21:10] for probably a decade. Not all the time,
[21:14] but I threw that at you, that
[21:20] discourtesy, that kind of
[21:24] I'm sorry.
[21:27] >> Thanks for saying that.
[21:30] I felt it.
[21:31] >> [laughter]
[21:37] >> I mean
[21:42] I I mean I think I could say the same
[21:45] that I had those things certainly on you
[21:49] as well.
[21:52] But I think the difference between us is
[21:54] that you know I internalize things way
[21:58] more than you ever did. like you would
[22:00] lash out. You your your reaction to
[22:03] these things would be external
[22:06] whereas my reaction would be quite
[22:08] internal.
[22:09] That's not to say that I wasn't or, you
[22:12] know, or whatever those noises were that
[22:15] were going on under my breath,
[22:19] but half the time they were aimed at
[22:20] myself more than they were at you, which
[22:24] I think is the thing that
[22:26] compounded your either anger, distrust,
[22:30] or whatever it was towards me.
[22:32] >> Yeah. Because when you went silent and
[22:34] I'm lashing out because I'm like sad or
[22:38] upset or scared or whatever and anger is
[22:41] the fastest like h valve and then you go
[22:44] quiet. I feel even more disconnected.
[22:47] >> Correct. Really what you needed was a
[22:48] hug and I'm running in the opposite
[22:50] direction
[22:50] >> which I don't blame you for.
[22:52] >> Yeah. But still, you know, when you talk
[22:54] about meeting people where they are,
[22:58] that wasn't always going down.
[23:00] I want to give you as you're listening
[23:03] or watching a very real application of
[23:07] how you start to apply this first
[23:10] lesson. You're my favorite person. This
[23:12] is both a test of are you with the right
[23:15] person? Because if you've never felt
[23:16] that way about the person, you're not
[23:17] with the right person. It's also a way
[23:20] for you to just take the temperature of
[23:23] your relationship. What what's what's
[23:28] >> carry on? I'm just [laughter]
[23:29] >> Oh, I thought you were about to cry.
[23:31] >> I was about to, but that's because I'm
[23:33] thinking about all the moments in our
[23:35] life. They're they're racing by in my
[23:37] head right now.
[23:39] >> There were a lot of them. And there were
[23:40] so many like even during the crappy
[23:42] decade, like there were so many
[23:44] incredible joyful like it's like violent
[23:47] ups and downs
[23:49] that we experienced. And the thing that
[23:53] that you can do to start to apply this
[23:55] and we are going to get into the deeper
[23:57] issues. What if the person has done
[24:00] something and you're you resent them for
[24:03] it? What if somebody really hurt you and
[24:06] you can't let go of the grudge? We're
[24:07] going to talk about that in a minute,
[24:09] but I want to give you something that
[24:10] Chris does that I want you to steal. It
[24:13] is free and I will tell you right now
[24:17] that you can use a post-it note to make
[24:22] your relationship better starting today.
[24:26] Because writing notes and hiding notes
[24:30] to the person you're in a relationship
[24:32] with is the single coolest and fastest
[24:36] way to start to recreate a connection.
[24:41] And Chris, I swear to God, Chris has
[24:43] been hiding notes in my wallet. Look at
[24:47] how old this one is. It says, "Me
[24:50] again." Just thinking about how much I
[24:51] love you. Look how old this thing is.
[24:54] And he doesn't tell me. He just pops it
[24:57] in something. You have hidden this one.
[25:01] He hid this Post-it note. Mel, I love
[25:03] you. Thank you for loving me. He hid
[25:06] that Post-it note in my freaking
[25:08] pillcase. I was on a trip and I opened
[25:11] this sucker up, you know, to take all
[25:13] the things that all the experts tell us
[25:14] we need to take in order to live to be
[25:16] hundred and like be energized and
[25:18] healthy and all that stuff. And there it
[25:21] is. And when you see a note like that,
[25:24] um, oh my gosh, here's another one. Did
[25:27] I mention how much I love you? Look at
[25:28] how old these things are. Here's another
[25:30] one. Hi there. Look, it's my bursting
[25:33] heart. Oh my god, you're kind of
[25:35] [laughter]
[25:38] Or here's another one. Like they're
[25:39] literally all over the place. He's been
[25:41] doing this for years. I'll pop open my
[25:44] glasses because I'm basically like need
[25:47] them.
[25:49] Did you know how much I love you?
[25:53] When I get one of these notes,
[25:56] I feel like your favorite person and you
[25:59] immediately become mine and it reminds
[26:04] me of our connection.
[26:07] Does it solve the massive problems that
[26:09] we may be facing? No. Does it remove the
[26:12] financial debt that is crushing us? No.
[26:15] Does it erase the uh issues that our
[26:18] kids may be struggling with that are
[26:20] causing us to argue over what to do
[26:22] about? No. But in that moment, that
[26:26] singular note
[26:29] is your way to use you're my favorite
[26:33] person
[26:35] in a busy life. And it's free. You could
[26:38] leave it like I leave it on your desk
[26:40] when you go and lead your soul degree
[26:42] retreats. Like that's that's how you
[26:45] have really started. That's how you have
[26:48] infiltrated and created a connection
[26:51] with me that no matter where I am, when
[26:54] I find one of these things, I'm like,
[26:55] "Oh my god, he's he thought about me. He
[26:57] loves me. He stuck that in there knowing
[26:59] I would find. Oh my god, he's my
[27:01] favorite person."
[27:03] I didn't realize that the notes you
[27:05] sometimes leave on my own desk were
[27:07] inspired by my notes. That's cool.
[27:09] >> Of course it work.
[27:10] >> Those feel so good. When I come back,
[27:12] >> you just tucked one in to the credit
[27:15] card thing that I don't think I've ever
[27:17] found. [laughter]
[27:18] Holy cow. I wonder how long this has
[27:20] been in here. This is from an Omni hotel
[27:23] and resort somewhere that you were, I
[27:24] guess. I don't know. I love you. That
[27:27] was right in the little credit card
[27:29] slot. I've never even seen that one.
[27:30] That's an old one.
[27:33] I can't remember the last time we were
[27:34] at an Omni. So, yeah, it is an old one.
[27:37] >> Wow.
[27:38] >> You do that with flowers.
[27:40] >> What do you mean
[27:40] >> for me? [snorts]
[27:42] >> Do you even like flowers?
[27:45] >> Well,
[27:46] >> explain what I do so I know. do like
[27:48] flowers, but I mostly love them because
[27:52] I
[27:54] get to live vicariously through the love
[27:56] you have for flowers.
[27:59] And
[28:01] it's a little
[28:03] >> So, explain what I do so that everybody
[28:05] can steal this.
[28:08] Well, you just have such a love of
[28:12] flowers and
[28:14] you come into my office when I'm not
[28:17] there and you put one little flower,
[28:22] whichever your favorite of the day is,
[28:25] and slide it into a tiny little vase or
[28:28] however you like to present it, and you
[28:30] leave it right on my desk. And then I
[28:33] come back and there's
[28:37] you. It's not even the flower. I just
[28:39] see you.
[28:42] And
[28:45] it's funny because
[28:49] that's another thing that makes you my
[28:52] favorite person. Not just the flower,
[28:54] but when we first met
[29:01] also makes me cry. First date,
[29:06] walking down the sidewalk,
[29:08] >> New York City.
[29:09] >> We're in midcon conversation after
[29:12] dinner,
[29:14] can't even remember what we were talking
[29:15] about, and you took off running. And I
[29:18] thought, "What the hell is this woman
[29:19] doing?" When I caught up to you, you've
[29:23] got a leaf in the palm of your hand
[29:25] shaped like a heart.
[29:27] >> It was a yucka tree, I think.
[29:28] >> Ginko tree.
[29:29] >> Oh, ginko tree. See, I don't even know
[29:30] what's happening.
[29:31] >> And you were jumping for joy as if the
[29:36] good humor truck just showed up. Like,
[29:38] you were so excited about this
[29:41] heart-shaped leaf and this tree and how
[29:43] it was your favorite.
[29:46] I mean, talk about authenticity and sort
[29:50] of that devi that I felt from you. So,
[29:54] when you put a little tiny flower on my
[29:56] desk, that brings me right back to your
[30:00] own love affair with flowers, but makes
[30:03] me feel like I'm your favorite.
[30:06] >> Amazing. This message is brought to you
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[30:43] So that's the first lesson. You're my
[30:45] favorite person. And those are two
[30:47] simple ways that you can start to apply
[30:51] it. And that brings me to the second
[30:53] lesson. Um, and the second lesson is
[30:57] really relevant because a lot of what
[30:59] we've learned over the years, or I
[31:00] should just say I've learned over the
[31:02] years, is how important softening is.
[31:05] So, you hear the relationship experts
[31:08] that are worldrenowned talk about
[31:09] kindness
[31:11] and curiosity
[31:13] and having an open heart. And often
[31:15] times when you're in the thick of life,
[31:17] it's like, well, how the hell do you do
[31:18] that when this person's freaking pissing
[31:19] me off right now? And for me,
[31:23] one of the reasons why I think our
[31:25] marriage is stronger than ever, I love
[31:26] you more deeply than ever, is that I
[31:28] have learned the importance of softening
[31:31] and remembering
[31:33] the person I married. And this comes to
[31:37] the second lesson. If you want your
[31:39] relationship to go the distance and be
[31:42] meaningful and deeply connected,
[31:45] always remember you did not marry the
[31:48] adult who is standing in front of you.
[31:51] You married the 8-year-old version of
[31:54] that person. And there are pieces of you
[31:59] as a little kid that never got the
[32:05] real I don't even know what the
[32:06] technical term is that there are parts
[32:08] of you like the reason you run into the
[32:10] corner is because that's what you did as
[32:11] a kid. The reason why you go into your
[32:13] head is because that's what you did as a
[32:15] kid. The reason why you don't ask for
[32:17] what you need, Chris, is because you
[32:19] grew up like a lot of people did in a
[32:21] family as the youngest with a lot going
[32:23] on where it didn't matter what your
[32:25] needs were because people didn't care or
[32:27] they cared but they didn't listen and so
[32:29] you just stopped talking. And it's easy
[32:33] for me to get mad at you when I look at
[32:35] the 57year-old version of you and be
[32:38] like, "The man's a grown ass adult. Why
[32:40] is he acting like this? Why doesn't he
[32:42] just tell me what he need?
[32:44] and not stop and go, "Okay, hold on.
[32:48] This is my favorite person."
[32:50] And
[32:52] I'm not dealing with a 57. I'm dealing
[32:54] with the part of him that's eight, just
[32:57] like you're dealing with the part of me
[33:00] that is a little girl. And this is
[33:04] really important because one of the
[33:06] things that I've learned from the
[33:07] experts and what I've learned from our
[33:08] own like therapy, you and I have have
[33:11] been working with a therapist for 5
[33:13] years that what's very important about
[33:16] this is it softens you because I think
[33:18] it's easy to be like that person's a
[33:20] dick. that person's a Like they
[33:23] like I and you start to get super judgy
[33:28] and because the world can make you hard,
[33:32] you don't want the way the world hardens
[33:35] you to be the part of you that you bring
[33:37] into the relationships. And I find that
[33:39] the moment that I think about the fact
[33:41] that
[33:43] I know who you are at your core,
[33:47] if you've been with somebody for a year,
[33:48] you knew who they are at their core.
[33:53] And when you can remember that most
[33:55] people aren't intentionally
[33:58] trying to hurt you or intentionally
[34:01] trying to
[34:03] make you resent them or intentionally
[34:07] trying to piss you off, they're just
[34:08] doing the best that they can in a very
[34:11] difficult
[34:12] world that we live in.
[34:15] And
[34:16] I've really been able to soften
[34:21] by thinking about the fact that
[34:24] there are times that you get scared.
[34:26] There are times that you're overwhelmed.
[34:28] There are times that you don't know what
[34:30] to ask for. And it's helped me really
[34:34] stop being so freaking judgy and angry
[34:37] and resentful
[34:39] when you're not doing exactly what I
[34:40] want you to do
[34:43] or behaving how I want you to behave and
[34:45] just
[34:47] slow the roll a little bit
[34:50] because you and I have struggled with
[34:53] something that the worldrenowned couples
[34:56] therapist Terry Real talks about. He
[34:59] came on the Mel Robbins podcast. I know
[35:01] you know Terry very well and he talked
[35:04] about something that was like whoa. He
[35:07] has this term, let's see if this rings a
[35:09] bell, Chris. Normal marital hatred.
[35:18] Let's hear uh Terry Real on the Mel
[35:20] Robbins podcast talking about normal
[35:25] marital hatred.
[35:28] Normal marital hatred.
[35:30] >> Normal marital hatred.
[35:32] >> Normal [laughter] marital hatred.
[35:36] >> My god.
[35:38] >> And I got to tell you, I've been around
[35:40] the world talking about normal marital
[35:41] hatred for 40. Not once has anyone come
[35:45] backstage and said, "What? What do you
[35:47] mean by that?" [laughter]
[35:49] I'd like to say, "We all marry our
[35:51] unfinished business."
[35:53] >> Whoa, hold on. We all marry our
[35:58] unfinished business.
[35:59] >> You got it. You know what? Young Mal
[36:04] could have had a guy that would have
[36:06] done everything she wanted him to do. I
[36:10] guarantee you there are guys you dated
[36:13] who you would not have gone through this
[36:14] crisis with. They did not blip on your
[36:17] screen.
[36:18] >> I call this the mysticism of marriage.
[36:20] >> The mysticism of marriage.
[36:22] >> Yes. If we have the opportunity to heal
[36:25] our deepest wounds,
[36:27] not
[36:29] falling in love means, "Oh yeah, this
[36:31] person's going to give it to me. I'm
[36:33] going to be healed. They're going to
[36:34] give me everything I didn't get. Good
[36:35] luck." A real relationship comes, I like
[36:39] to say, when you realize your partner
[36:41] is, here's my quote, exquisitely
[36:44] designed to stick the burning spear
[36:46] right into your eyeball. That's the
[36:49] crisis.
[36:50] That's not a bad relationship. That's a
[36:53] real relationship. The question is now
[36:55] what?
[36:56] >> Are you just going to repeat the same
[36:58] old same old? That's hell.
[37:01] Or are you going to wake up and do
[37:04] something different? The crisis can wake
[37:06] you up if you allow it. But you have to
[37:10] do it. And so there's a lot that goes
[37:14] into why we don't wake up, how to wake
[37:17] up, and if we do stay awake, what the
[37:20] hell do we do then?
[37:23] >> What does
[37:25] unfinished business mean? That what does
[37:27] cuz because it's true. The person that
[37:29] you're in a relationship with has an
[37:30] uncanny way to get under your skin, piss
[37:33] you off, frustrate the hell out of you.
[37:37] You love them, but you want to kill them
[37:39] at times, right?
[37:40] >> Yeah. definitely want to change them.
[37:41] >> Yeah.
[37:42] >> But what does unfinished business mean
[37:46] exactly for us?
[37:48] >> It means
[37:51] that you are now exactly in the
[37:54] childhood wound that that son of a gun
[37:57] that you picked was supposed to never
[37:59] put you in. You have been fundamentally
[38:03] betrayed. You are back. You're four.
[38:07] You're with your crazy family and your
[38:12] partner is just as chaotic, it turns
[38:14] out, as your dad was. Your partner is
[38:17] just as betraying as your mom was.
[38:19] Whatever the wound is, all of a sudden
[38:22] it's in your face. And that's not what
[38:25] you signed up for. And you hate that son
[38:28] of a gun.
[38:28] >> When you hear normal marital hatred,
[38:30] what comes to mind, Chris?
[38:38] driving down the road with you in the
[38:41] passenger seat,
[38:44] head down, doing whatever you're doing,
[38:47] silent,
[38:50] feeling like, or I should say I'm
[38:53] feeling like you are a million miles
[38:55] away even though you're 2 feet from me.
[39:02] And that's so on point what Terry is
[39:04] saying because
[39:07] you know as they I think they say you
[39:09] you either marry your mother or your
[39:11] father or something to that effect. And
[39:14] >> you know a lot of my struggle was the
[39:19] physical and emotional absence of my
[39:21] dad.
[39:23] That really I think was at the crux of
[39:28] our hardest times
[39:30] because we were both running scared
[39:34] trying to do what we were doing.
[39:36] >> Millions dollars in debt
[39:38] >> like roommates, financial pain, all of
[39:40] these things that had us be in our
[39:42] separate corners which only exacerbated
[39:46] the what I experienced which was a lot
[39:49] of physical and emotional absence from
[39:51] you.
[39:53] And
[39:55] so yeah, that's the uh whatever he said,
[39:57] the sharp poker in the eye or what
[39:59] [laughter] have you. That's how it felt.
[40:03] I want to just really unpack this
[40:05] because I think it's a very common thing
[40:07] that people feel.
[40:10] When things get hard, you turn on the
[40:13] person that was your favorite person
[40:16] and
[40:18] you immediately feel that shift in a
[40:20] relationship
[40:22] and you start to feel the distance.
[40:24] And then you both go into your corners.
[40:27] And what ends up happening,
[40:30] at least for me, is
[40:33] when you stop talking and you're silent
[40:37] and withdrawn, I feel alone.
[40:40] And it really makes me feel unsafe and
[40:44] then I get mad that you're not just
[40:47] fixing everything.
[40:49] And that's where it goes way deep. And
[40:53] it never occurred to me until you and I
[40:56] started working with a therapist and
[40:59] Terry put those words normal marital
[41:02] hatred
[41:04] out there. I'd never heard that before
[41:08] that I really understood what he was
[41:10] talking about and I started to realize
[41:12] wait a minute like there like I'm like
[41:15] when I get scared it's typically because
[41:18] you're also scared and my little
[41:21] 8-year-old version gets anxious and
[41:23] angry and feels alone and yours probably
[41:25] feels the same way but I start like
[41:28] going a million miles an hour and you
[41:30] just get quiet
[41:33] and that's the When you can identify it,
[41:36] not as something somebody's doing
[41:38] intentionally, not as something that
[41:39] somebody's out to get you. This is the
[41:42] compounding effect
[41:44] of all of these smaller moments that
[41:47] creates this massive distance and
[41:49] disconnection. That's where you can go
[41:51] to work. And what's really helped me is
[41:53] basically going, I married like the
[41:57] younger version of you. You have
[41:59] unfinished business with yourself. I
[42:01] have unfinished business with myself.
[42:03] And we have an opportunity when we come
[42:04] at it that way to work together to help
[42:07] each other finish that business and be
[42:10] more supportive of one another.
[42:16] What do you want to say?
[42:20] just feeling a whole lot of gratitude
[42:22] that we've had 30 years together to
[42:27] move through it versus
[42:31] throw in the towel.
[42:33] >> If the person listening, let's start
[42:36] with the person listening who is in a
[42:38] relationship with somebody who shuts
[42:40] down like you do.
[42:44] Let what would your advice be to that
[42:46] person about what you want them to know
[42:50] when a partner is shutting down and not
[42:56] communicating
[42:59] cuz I'm the opposite. I get angry and
[43:01] vent and get flooded and then I'm a jerk
[43:03] and then I apologize and then I get in
[43:05] that cycle and I then feel more and more
[43:07] alone and I know that it just shuts you
[43:10] down more. Do you even take a moment to
[43:13] notice how you're feeling? Is there
[43:15] >> No. Well, I didn't back then. If I did,
[43:18] if I had simply for many years paused in
[43:22] the driveway
[43:24] and taken a deep breath and said, "Okay,
[43:27] remember Mel, Chris is your favorite
[43:29] person.
[43:31] Life is hard right now, but you two are
[43:33] going to get through this together."
[43:36] and supporting each other right now and
[43:39] and trying to be kind to each other and
[43:42] and caring and and considerate and
[43:45] curious of one another is going to make
[43:48] it way more likely that you two can get
[43:51] through this together.
[43:53] Do not let the world and the stress and
[43:55] the overwhelm that is very real
[43:58] overwhelm your marriage and the and your
[44:00] relationship and the power of the two of
[44:02] you standing together.
[44:05] So, he's your favorite person. Chris is
[44:07] your favorite person.
[44:09] And he's probably just as scared as you
[44:11] are. He's probably just as stressed as
[44:12] you are. Take a deep breath
[44:15] and walk in that door and you can be
[44:17] tired and still be kind.
[44:21] >> I mean, that's beautiful and beautifully
[44:24] said and easier said than done for most
[44:27] of us.
[44:27] >> I said I wish I did it. I didn't say I
[44:29] did it.
[44:30] >> So, I I don't really have a succinct
[44:32] answer to
[44:32] >> What do you want somebody to know? Let's
[44:34] say somebody's listening right now and
[44:36] they've always thought, "Wow, I'm just
[44:38] married to somebody who doesn't talk.
[44:40] I'm just married to a thinker. I'm just
[44:42] married to somebody who like
[44:44] can't like doesn't really talk about how
[44:46] they feel." Like what I think is very
[44:49] important about what you're talking
[44:50] about is that somebody who's quiet on
[44:53] the surface is still feeling deep, deep,
[44:57] deep emotion.
[45:00] And how do you help your partner?
[45:04] Because I used to say to you, "What are
[45:05] you thinking? What's going on up there?
[45:07] What are you thinking about? What's on
[45:09] your mind, Chris?" And you would still
[45:10] deflect.
[45:13] Probably cuz you didn't want me to yell
[45:14] at you if you were about to open up
[45:16] about something.
[45:19] >> Yeah. But I mean maybe there was a
[45:22] period there where I didn't want to say
[45:24] anything but I think it's it gets back
[45:27] to
[45:30] my own yes there was deep thought in
[45:32] there and this is not a great answer
[45:36] because it's not easy to do in the
[45:38] moment but understanding why it is that
[45:42] let's say in the instance where I'm
[45:43] being quiet
[45:45] you know what is that like where does
[45:47] what's the origin of that for me and
[45:52] that's where I think there was a lot of
[45:54] work that I did to recognize
[45:57] what I was missing or what I wanted and
[46:01] you know a lot of the time
[46:04] I mean I think I think one of my light
[46:07] bulbs was you know in those in those
[46:11] years where it was tough
[46:14] and we were running around like chickens
[46:17] it was rare that we would come together
[46:20] and actually have a
[46:24] pow-wow.
[46:26] In fact, the only time we did it was
[46:28] when we needed to go over our calendars,
[46:32] which I used to kind of scoff at because
[46:34] I remember watching my parents do that
[46:36] when I was a kid and thinking that is so
[46:38] stupid.
[46:39] >> And then here we were on Sunday night
[46:41] trying to do that for ourselves.
[46:44] And as much I as much as I didn't like
[46:47] that that's what was pulling us
[46:49] together,
[46:51] that was like
[46:55] that was a great
[46:59] moment for me because
[47:03] we were
[47:06] there was an attempt to be close, to be
[47:10] aligned, to be in communication
[47:14] And
[47:16] I use that as example because
[47:19] it it's it's one of those things that
[47:22] was like, oh, this is what's missing for
[47:24] me is
[47:26] >> the that connection and not just
[47:29] communication, but as even just touch
[47:33] like I didn't grow up with a lot of
[47:35] touch and so it took me whatever 30 40
[47:38] years to realize just like you reaching
[47:41] out and holding my hand or putting your
[47:43] hand on my shoulder older or that that
[47:48] simple level or simple act of intimacy
[47:54] was like the greatest thing in the world
[47:57] for me. And
[48:01] it takes a little bit, at least it did
[48:04] for me, to recognize that
[48:07] this is what I need. This is what I
[48:09] want. And some of that may have come in
[48:12] the form of the struggles and the
[48:15] breakdowns and even the breakthroughs
[48:17] and some of the work that we've done
[48:18] together. But again, the reason why it
[48:21] doesn't sound like a great answer is
[48:22] because some of it is time and
[48:24] recognition of
[48:26] being able to stop and slow down a
[48:29] little bit to even recognize the emotion
[48:31] or the feeling. Which is why I asked
[48:32] you, do you think that because you are
[48:34] very ready, fire, aim kind of person.
[48:38] >> Yes. And I am definitely more like
[48:40] ready, aim, okay, aim again, then fire.
[48:44] >> Yes. I I think there's there's a lot
[48:47] that I want to
[48:49] really dig into there because it kind of
[48:52] brings us to the third lesson. You use
[48:55] the word um simple intimacy.
[48:59] And one of the things that we have
[49:02] learned the hard way is that when we are
[49:05] in a chapter in our relationship where
[49:08] we're really connected and we feel
[49:12] supportive of each other and life feels
[49:15] manageable and I feel like you are my
[49:18] favorite person and I'm also treating
[49:20] you that way. There's something that is
[49:23] very obvious and present and it is
[49:26] simple points of connection throughout a
[49:30] week. And you mentioned the calendar
[49:33] because this is something I never expect
[49:36] you to cry over, but I understand why
[49:38] you did because if you really think
[49:40] about why you fall in love with
[49:41] somebody, it's because not only does
[49:44] this person make you feel safe and make
[49:46] you feel like the version of you that
[49:48] you really you can be yourself, you
[49:51] don't have to compromise your values or
[49:54] who you are. They bring out the best in
[49:56] you. But there's also this incredible
[49:59] thing that in the beginning you have all
[50:00] these shared goals and dreams. You have
[50:02] a vision. You have a way you think your
[50:05] life is going to turn out. And there's a
[50:07] lot of time spent about what are we
[50:09] going to do and what are we doing this
[50:10] weekend? And then you see your friends
[50:12] and there's this scaffolding and these
[50:15] points of connection every week in the
[50:17] beginning of a relationship that remind
[50:19] you of why this relationship matters and
[50:23] why two can feel like one when you have
[50:27] these points of connection. And the
[50:28] thing about a calendar whether you're
[50:30] young parents or you've just moved in
[50:32] together is that life does trample you
[50:36] with logistics. And it's way worse today
[50:40] with texting and social and Slack and
[50:42] Monday and work and email and cell
[50:44] phones and all that stuff. Like the
[50:46] volume of input
[50:49] that can act like a title wave to wash
[50:52] you away from your partner is endless.
[50:55] And so a calendar meeting on a Sunday
[50:57] night, not the sexiest thing in the
[50:59] world, brings you together and gets you
[51:02] aligned against a shared vision. That's
[51:05] why that matters. And there are a couple
[51:08] things that are always present, Chris, I
[51:10] notice, in the periods of our life where
[51:13] things are really good. And this is not
[51:16] complicated stuff.
[51:18] Number one, we do the calendar meeting
[51:21] cuz one of my resentful accommodations
[51:23] is feeling like, you know, it's all up
[51:25] to me or, you know, I didn't ask for
[51:26] help or whatever. And that's a moment
[51:27] where you can start to ask, is there
[51:29] something that you need for support? Is
[51:33] there something you need this week? you
[51:35] know, you had a huge week last week and
[51:38] I remember saying, "Let me take all the
[51:39] dinners. Let me support you that way."
[51:42] Now, you would never have come up to me
[51:44] and said, "Hey, I have a big week. Could
[51:46] you do dinners?" But that calendar
[51:48] meeting allowed us to remind ourselves,
[51:51] we're in this together and what help do
[51:54] you need? And you always ask me, "What
[51:56] can I do to help you this week? What do
[51:58] you need?"
[51:59] The second thing that I notice is
[52:01] present is
[52:03] we take a walk a couple mornings, not
[52:08] seven days a week, but we actually two
[52:11] or three times a week we just get a
[52:12] short walk in.
[52:14] Another thing that I notice is we have a
[52:17] couple meals together and if we're lucky
[52:19] we cook together and we have this ritual
[52:23] where we ask the high the low of the
[52:25] day. Lots of people have a version of
[52:26] this, whether it's rose, thorn, bud, or
[52:29] whatever. It just kind of prompts you to
[52:32] share more about
[52:34] what you're looking forward to. And then
[52:36] the final thing, I think this is really
[52:37] important because we neglected this for
[52:40] a while.
[52:42] Your relationship does not exist in a
[52:45] vacuum.
[52:46] And if you isolate your relationship
[52:51] from the structures
[52:54] that reinforce the power of being in a
[52:59] committed and loving and supportive
[53:00] relationship,
[53:02] that isolation
[53:05] starts to tear away at your connection
[53:08] because you start to feel like it's me
[53:09] against you. It's us against the world.
[53:11] All I do is work and then come home and
[53:14] that's my existence. And one thing we
[53:16] have done that I noticed in a remarkable
[53:19] distance is for our 30th wedding
[53:21] anniversary, instead of having a party,
[53:24] we said, you know what we're going to
[53:25] do? We're going to prioritize seeing
[53:27] friends
[53:29] and we're going to prioritize seeing
[53:30] people that God were in our wedding 30
[53:32] years ago. We're going to prioritize
[53:35] seeing other couples or other families
[53:37] or other friends that have been there
[53:40] because
[53:42] making time, whether it's with family or
[53:45] old friends or new friends, making time
[53:48] for that reinforces
[53:51] the memories. It reinforces the network
[53:55] that you've created together.
[53:57] Fun and connection is such a huge part
[54:00] of it. And when I look back at the times
[54:03] when we were really at each other's
[54:05] throats,
[54:07] we were not doing that. We were
[54:10] isolated. We were barricaded with our
[54:12] problems. We were at each other. We were
[54:15] locked away in in your your head, my
[54:18] anger. And there's something about
[54:22] getting out of your rhythm and into an
[54:27] intentional cycle of having plans to
[54:31] look ahead to. And it could just be
[54:34] making dinner with friends this weekend.
[54:36] It might be going to a live concert like
[54:39] we did with one of our friends that we
[54:41] hadn't seen these friends for two years.
[54:42] We're like, why don't we go for a
[54:44] concert with them? That's part of our
[54:45] 30th wedding anniversary. And to me,
[54:48] it's made a huge difference. And it does
[54:52] something that really again takes me
[54:55] back to the beginning of when we met and
[55:00] when the whole future was just wide open
[55:04] and you feel when you're with your
[55:06] person like we have a shared vision and
[55:09] we're going to do this together. And you
[55:12] can find your way back to that. I
[55:14] believe and you can find your way back
[55:16] to it with these three things we're
[55:19] talking about that four words. You're my
[55:22] favorite person.
[55:24] This lesson around softening and
[55:28] remembering you are in a relationship
[55:30] with your partner's unfinished business.
[55:33] Just think about them as little
[55:34] 8-year-old and you probably won't scream
[55:36] at them.
[55:37] and there's an opportunity to grow
[55:40] together instead of to hold grudges and
[55:44] to lean into each other. That's the
[55:46] opportunity. And then the final thing is
[55:49] like really thinking about the fact that
[55:51] your relationship is a third person in
[55:56] the relationship. like it's you and
[55:59] you're responsible for certain things
[56:00] for yourself and me and I'm responsible
[56:02] for certain things for myself and you're
[56:05] responsible for supporting me and I'm
[56:08] responsible for supporting you in ways
[56:09] but there is this relationship
[56:13] that needs our attention otherwise it's
[56:15] going to die and so those things that
[56:17] reinforce alignment things to look
[56:20] forward to planning the calendar every
[56:22] week uh checking in h how can I help you
[56:26] this week what do you
[56:28] uh prioritizing seeing friends and
[56:30] family that reinforce like the good
[56:32] years and the memories and you know what
[56:35] you've all been through because there's
[56:37] so much value in being reminded that
[56:40] yeah, you've been through things and you
[56:43] can come out the other side.
[56:50] >> Yeah. Yeah, the only thing I would add
[56:51] to that is just, you know, the constant
[56:54] recognition of the changes that are
[56:56] occurring because in the honeymoon
[56:58] phase, you don't want anything to change
[57:01] and you don't imagine anything changing.
[57:05] And the reality is that change will
[57:08] occur. And coincidentally, many of us
[57:12] are seeking change over time. But we
[57:15] certainly can't anticipate
[57:18] all of the ambiguities that are going to
[57:20] pop up when these changes are occurring,
[57:22] whether we are forcing the change or
[57:24] they are being forced upon us. And I
[57:27] think stopping and acknowledging those
[57:31] along the way as being sources sometimes
[57:34] of things like grudges and what have you
[57:39] can be helpful.
[57:41] >> You know, I'm I'm thinking about the
[57:42] fact that our daughters
[57:44] will often say to me, I really like
[57:48] really want to find someone like dad. I
[57:51] really hope I have a marriage that's
[57:52] like your guys. Oh my gosh. And you know
[57:54] what I say to them? I say first of all
[57:57] the man you see at 57 is not the man I
[58:00] met at 26. So there have been a lot of
[58:02] skill building. There have been a lot of
[58:04] water under the bridge. There's been a
[58:06] lot of growth. Our marriage when we
[58:08] started did not look like it looks
[58:11] today.
[58:13] And so if you're in that spot where
[58:15] you're like is this my person? Is it not
[58:17] my person? Will I ever have the
[58:20] Do you think
[58:22] that you could spend 30 years with the
[58:24] person that you're in a relationship
[58:25] with? And over the course of 30 years,
[58:30] is this person the kind of person that's
[58:32] willing to lean in and work on it and
[58:33] grow with you? that was clear from day
[58:36] one was our mutual interest in growth
[58:42] and learning and understanding first and
[58:46] foremost of ourselves about ourselves.
[58:49] But the fact that we wanted to jump into
[58:51] that pool together was
[58:55] very very attractive.
[58:57] >> I think that's how you know you're with
[58:59] the right person. You feel like
[59:01] yourself. You see a shared vision.
[59:04] of growing old together. You share
[59:06] values and have some overlapping goals
[59:10] and dreams about the way you think about
[59:12] your life and the things you want out of
[59:14] your life. And you're both willing to
[59:18] lean in and grow together. You have
[59:21] that. You have one of the single
[59:23] greatest gifts that you will ever
[59:24] experience in life.
[59:28] Chris, is there anything else you wanted
[59:29] to say?
[59:32] >> No. I mean, it sounds trit, but I just
[59:36] love the fact that we've had 30 years,
[59:39] even though lots of them were tough.
[59:43] I love that we're still in it together.
[59:46] I love that we took the time to learn
[59:50] some of these things, to
[59:56] give each other the space to learn these
[59:58] things,
[1:00:00] which I know at times didn't come easy.
[1:00:05] Uh, but I
[1:00:07] I am
[1:00:09] feeling lots of gratitude for our 30
[1:00:12] years.
[1:00:13] >> Well, we definitely grew together.
[1:00:16] majorly
[1:00:17] >> and like I I do remember times where I'm
[1:00:19] like this is just a moment. This is not
[1:00:22] the whole marriage. This is just a
[1:00:24] moment.
[1:00:26] We will get through this. Things will be
[1:00:28] better again. And I really do wish
[1:00:31] though that the three things that we
[1:00:34] shared today, you and I had had going
[1:00:36] into this marriage.
[1:00:39] And I'm grateful that we have these
[1:00:42] tools
[1:00:43] as we continue forward in it because I
[1:00:47] know we're celebrating 30 years, but I
[1:00:49] was thinking about it today.
[1:00:51] I can't do math very well, but I would
[1:00:54] really I'm trying to think of the math
[1:00:56] here, guys. Like, if I live to be
[1:01:01] 100 years, what would 75 be? So 75 would
[1:01:03] be 45 more years. Oh god, that's 102.
[1:01:08] No, it'll be another 20.
[1:01:10] >> What? No, we've been married 30.
[1:01:12] >> Oh. Oh, in our marriage.
[1:01:13] >> Yeah. Wouldn't it be cool to celebrate
[1:01:14] our 75th wedding anniversary?
[1:01:17] >> Is it even possible to live that long?
[1:01:18] How old is that? I'm 57.
[1:01:20] >> We need another We need another 45
[1:01:21] years.
[1:01:22] >> Wow. 45 years I get to spend with you.
[1:01:27] >> As long as I'm not drooling on myself.
[1:01:29] Yeah, that'd be awesome.
[1:01:31] >> You'd still be my favorite person.
[1:01:34] [laughter]
[1:01:36] [sighs] I wonder about that. [laughter]
[1:01:41] [sighs and gasps]
[1:01:42] >> Oh god. I would love to reach our 75th
[1:01:46] wedding anniversary. That would put us
[1:01:47] at 102. Do you think we can make it?
[1:01:50] >> I think we're
[1:01:52] doing all the right things to try to get
[1:01:54] there for sure.
[1:01:55] >> All right. Well, let's put it in the
[1:01:57] calendar.
[1:02:00] [sighs and gasps]
[1:02:05] Well, I just want to remind you that on
[1:02:07] our second date when we declared we were
[1:02:10] going to marry each other.
[1:02:13] I hesitated to say that I wanted to
[1:02:16] spend the rest of my life with you. I
[1:02:19] really thought about it in the moment
[1:02:21] like should I tell her that cuz I'm
[1:02:23] feeling that. And the reason why I did
[1:02:26] feel that and I said something on our
[1:02:28] second date was because in that moment I
[1:02:31] had a visual of you and I very old in
[1:02:35] two rocking chairs on the front porch of
[1:02:38] an old house. And that vision popped up
[1:02:41] in my head and I thought I really do
[1:02:44] want to be in those rocking chairs
[1:02:47] together.
[1:02:48] And that's what compelled me to even say
[1:02:51] I want that. So yeah, amen to 102.
[1:02:55] Hopefully [laughter] hopefully
[1:02:56] >> let's create it. Chris Robbins, let's
[1:02:58] create it. Um I am
[1:03:02] so happy that you were here with me and
[1:03:07] Chris. Thank you for taking the time to
[1:03:10] listen to this. Thank you for watching
[1:03:11] it. Like you cannot listen to or watch
[1:03:15] this conversation
[1:03:17] with the person you're in a relationship
[1:03:19] with and not feel compelled to have a
[1:03:23] deeper conversation.
[1:03:25] There's just no way based on what Chris
[1:03:28] shared, based on what I shared, based on
[1:03:31] these lessons, based on the topics that
[1:03:35] we covered that I'm sure I could almost
[1:03:38] feel you nodding along like that's me,
[1:03:41] that's my partner. And if there's one
[1:03:44] thing that we kept coming back to over
[1:03:46] and over and that we've come back to is
[1:03:48] that you can't solve problems you're not
[1:03:50] willing to talk about. and you'll never
[1:03:54] process feelings that you keep burying.
[1:03:57] And hardening isn't going to improve
[1:04:00] your relationship. So, if you really do
[1:04:03] want to go the distance with one
[1:04:05] another, and of course you do, that's
[1:04:06] why you're listening, why not soften?
[1:04:09] Why not find your way back to this
[1:04:12] person that you fell in love with? And
[1:04:13] we are here to tell you because we've
[1:04:15] been through Halenback, it is absolutely
[1:04:17] possible. And these simple lessons that
[1:04:19] we shared and some of the simple tools
[1:04:21] that we've used have helped us do that.
[1:04:25] And in case no one else tells you, I
[1:04:27] wanted to be sure to tell you as your
[1:04:28] friend that I love you and I'm sure
[1:04:32] Chris loves you, too. And we believe in
[1:04:36] your ability to create a better life.
[1:04:39] And part of what makes for a much better
[1:04:42] life is more fulfilling relationships.
[1:04:45] And I know that what we shared with you
[1:04:48] will give you the tools to create them.
[1:04:51] All right, I'll see you in the very next
[1:04:53] episode. I'm going to welcome you in the
[1:04:54] moment you hit play. All right, thank
[1:04:57] you for watching all the way to the end
[1:04:59] on YouTube. And I know you want to watch
[1:05:02] another video. And I know you're
[1:05:03] thinking, "All right, Mel, what episode
[1:05:05] should we watch next?" Oh, you're going
[1:05:06] to love this episode of the Mel Robbins
[1:05:08] Podcast. [music] I'll welcome you in the
[1:05:10] moment I hit play.