Transcript
[0:00] Hey, my name is Chris Brennan, and
[0:01] you're listening to the Astrology
[0:03] Podcast. Joining me today is astrologer
[0:05] Nick Dagan Best, and we're going to be
[0:06] talking about overlapping planetary
[0:08] cycles, where a repeating cycle of one
[0:11] planet lines up with a repeating cycle
[0:13] of another planet. Hey, Nick. Thanks for
[0:16] joining me.
[0:17] >> Thanks for having me back, Chris.
[0:19] >> Yeah, so you are the long-standing like
[0:23] master of this technique and of the idea
[0:25] of both short-term and long-term
[0:27] planetary periods and cycles.
[0:30] I myself am a relative newcomer, just
[0:33] like really
[0:34] really trying to get into this over the
[0:37] past decade, obviously, but especially
[0:39] over the past few years getting deep
[0:41] into the Venus retrograde ones, which
[0:42] have always been your specialty. But I
[0:45] wanted to talk to you today because I've
[0:47] been super focused on the 8-year
[0:48] repetitions of Venus, but I keep seeing
[0:51] some 8-year repetitions of Venus being
[0:53] more important than others, and I'm
[0:56] realizing in some instances that's
[0:57] because they're overlapping with other
[0:59] planetary cycles like Mars or Mercury or
[1:02] other planets like that, right?
[1:04] >> Exactly. Yeah, the the 8-year cycle of
[1:07] Venus over the course of a human
[1:09] lifetime
[1:10] will have interactions with the cycle of
[1:13] Mars at the ages of 32 and 64, or with
[1:17] Mercury at the age of 40, Jupiter at 24
[1:20] naturally.
[1:22] And then Saturn is quite old. I forget
[1:24] that the the age, but it's it's um
[1:27] I want to say it's like 96 or something.
[1:30] Um
[1:32] >> Let's start with our our baseline one in
[1:34] the diagram I've been showing lately,
[1:36] which is just the current Venus
[1:38] retrograde in Scorpio cycle, and the
[1:41] fact that
[1:42] Venus goes retrograde in Scorpio every 8
[1:44] years, like pretty consistently over the
[1:47] past century from right now, it's like
[1:49] the last 3 to 4 months by sign in 2026,
[1:53] and then 2018, 2010, 2002, 1994,
[1:58] and so on and so forth.
[2:00] Um and those have been just stunningly
[2:04] amazing. So I I just did one news
[2:06] episode just collecting a bunch of like
[2:08] the recurrences of like events in
[2:11] people's lives or historical events that
[2:13] are being repeated and it's just really
[2:16] stunning. There was a funny one I found.
[2:18] Did you see this where um
[2:20] Amelia Earhart was declared dead back in
[2:22] the like the 1930s just after Venus
[2:25] retrograde in Scorpio and then they just
[2:27] sent out like a search party and she was
[2:29] in the news where they thought they
[2:30] found like the plane or something
[2:32] basically and it was back in in the news
[2:34] essentially on a Venus retrograde in
[2:36] Scorpio repetition.
[2:38] Mhm.
[2:39] >> Yeah. Yeah, she disappeared in 1937
[2:41] shortly after the the retrograde in
[2:43] Aries, I guess um in the spring there.
[2:45] The Taurus to Aries in those in those
[2:47] days.
[2:49] >> Yeah. And then she they declared her her
[2:52] husband pushed to have her declared dead
[2:53] like a year and a half later so he could
[2:55] continue her business affairs or
[2:57] something like that. But um yeah, so we
[3:00] know though through this cycle that
[3:02] events echo or repeat or you get very
[3:06] similar events happening when the Venus
[3:10] retrograde cycles recur, but then that
[3:12] kind of happens with all planetary
[3:14] periods in different ways and that's
[3:16] some of the something you and I have
[3:17] explored. It's something Patrick and I
[3:20] did a whole episode on the Babylonian
[3:21] goal year periods where evidently they
[3:23] were focused on much more long-term
[3:25] cycles. But one of the things you and I
[3:28] did a lot of work on last year and that
[3:29] you clued me in on is that some of the
[3:31] Venus cycles will coincide with other
[3:34] planetary ones and that becomes a really
[3:37] powerful way of like narrowing down
[3:41] um both in mundane astrology and now
[3:42] also personal astrology like really
[3:45] important years and narrowing down um
[3:48] intersecting threads that will repeat in
[3:51] a person's life from different eras. And
[3:54] one of the more powerful ones that you
[3:55] and I talked about a lot last year was
[3:56] the 32-year period where um Venus will
[4:00] go retrograde in the same sign and Mars
[4:03] will go retrograde in the same sign
[4:05] about every 32 years, right?
[4:08] >> Yeah, Mars will be close. Sometimes
[4:10] it'll be the adjacent sign because of
[4:12] the warped nature of Mars's orbit, but
[4:15] it comes down to the same thing. The
[4:17] cycle of Mars isn't as symmetrical and
[4:20] tidy as Venus, so the returns don't
[4:22] always happen at the same
[4:24] zodiacal degree that like the way they
[4:26] do for Venus because Venus's orbit is
[4:28] almost perfectly circular. It's not an
[4:31] ellipse,
[4:32] whereas Mars's orbit is very elliptical,
[4:35] which is why for instance you get
[4:37] retrogrades um
[4:39] in in Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces
[4:41] only happen every 47 years, whereas
[4:44] they'll happen in Cancer, Leo, and Virgo
[4:46] every 15 to 17 years.
[4:48] Um so it's just the nature of that. In
[4:50] order to get Mars to to get a Mars
[4:52] return that's similar to our idea of the
[4:54] 8-year Venus return, you have to go the
[4:56] full 79-year goal year, at which point
[4:59] it's about 4° away from the from the
[5:02] natal position. But um if you're just
[5:04] talking in a human lifetime, it's harder
[5:07] to get the Mars return in a zodiacal um
[5:10] in a tidy zodiacal placement like like
[5:13] we're talking about. You get a close one
[5:15] at 47 and then 79 is is really on.
[5:19] >> Right. Yeah, those the 47 and the
[5:22] 79 were the two Babylonian goal year
[5:24] periods, and those are pretty close. And
[5:26] you said I know you talked about before,
[5:28] but the two smallest increments of Mars
[5:30] is it has like the 15 is the standard
[5:33] ancient minor period of of Mars where
[5:36] there is a broad recurrence every 15
[5:39] years, but you also said there's like a
[5:40] 17-year one as well, right?
[5:44] >> Yeah, um basically I mean for the
[5:45] tidiest Mars returns, you do alternating
[5:49] sums of 15 and 17. So the first return
[5:52] being at 15, the next one 17 years later
[5:55] at 32, the next one 15 years later at
[5:58] 47, the next one 17 years later at 64,
[6:02] the next one 15 years later at 79.
[6:05] Got it. So, it's just it's it's
[6:08] Um but having said that both 15 and 17
[6:10] Patrick actually just gave a really good
[6:12] talk on this um at UAC. Um
[6:16] when you look at it more broadly, really
[6:18] both 15 and 17 are Mars returns because
[6:21] you you get the sequence of Mars returns
[6:23] that'll happen
[6:25] in the same sign.
[6:27] Um
[6:28] like for for a three the three times in
[6:31] a row at at bi-annual um interval.
[6:35] Um so, it winds up playing into that
[6:37] anyway, but um for the really tight
[6:40] returns, yeah, the first one is 15, the
[6:42] next one is 32, then 47, then 64, then
[6:46] 79.
[6:47] >> And with Mars, so like a way to
[6:50] visualize that now is that like 2 years
[6:53] ago or I guess it was like last year
[6:56] No, it was like yeah, it was like like 2
[6:57] years ago we had a Mars retrograde in
[7:01] Cancer and Leo. And now about 2 years
[7:05] later, we're about to have the next Mars
[7:06] retrograde in Virgo and Leo. So, it's
[7:09] like it touches one sign that's the same
[7:13] and two adjacent ones, and that's an
[7:15] example of the 15 and 17 years, right?
[7:18] Because if you go back
[7:19] 15 and 17 years, there would have been a
[7:21] similar repetition of first a Mars
[7:24] retrograde in Cancer and Leo one year,
[7:28] and then exactly 2 years later a
[7:30] retrograde in the sign of uh Leo and
[7:33] Virgo 2 years later.
[7:35] >> Yeah, because we're on this side of the
[7:37] zodiac. If we were at the other side of
[7:40] the zodiac, you know, you could have um
[7:43] a Mars retrograde in Aquarius and then 2
[7:45] years later it's in Aries, and then 2
[7:47] years later it's in Gemini, which was
[7:49] the case going from 2018 to 2020 to
[7:52] 2022.
[7:54] Um
[7:55] you know, so then then it isn't as as uh
[7:59] as even as the the ones like I said,
[8:01] Cancer, Leo, and Virgo. The reason
[8:03] you'll get the overlap
[8:05] uh between 15 and 17 on this end of the
[8:08] zodiac is because Mars uh retrogrades
[8:11] and conjunctions to the sun happen more
[8:13] frequently in these signs.
[8:15] >> Okay, let me put up Solar Fire and let's
[8:18] just like maybe we should animate charts
[8:19] to visualize this to show people and
[8:21] maybe that'll ground it a little bit
[8:22] more.
[8:24] What do you think? Good?
[8:25] >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. Um, I you know, it it
[8:28] it helps to have a visual aid. Um
[8:31] >> Yeah. While we're talking, I
[8:33] >> I I'm trying to be as as I'm trying to
[8:35] be as simple and concise. Mars isn't
[8:37] necessarily complicated as such. Only
[8:40] only complicated when you think of it
[8:42] relative to Venus because Venus cycles
[8:45] are so even and tidy and zodiacally, you
[8:49] know, predictable. And you're just not
[8:52] getting that with Mars
[8:54] um over the course of a human lifetime.
[8:56] Uh to get that kind of tidiness, you
[8:58] have to go 47 years minimum, but really
[9:01] 79.
[9:03] >> Okay, so here's um
[9:05] Venus and let's go I I put it at like
[9:08] October 11th, 2026. Well, I'll start
[9:10] with the Venus just to show its
[9:12] repetition. So, Venus is retrograde here
[9:15] at in Scorpio. It's recently stationed
[9:17] retrograde October 3rd. I'm going to
[9:19] change the animate chart thing feature
[9:22] to an increment of eight years, um which
[9:26] Patrick showed me I could do. It's
[9:27] bizarre that I didn't know you could do
[9:28] that, but that blew my mind like a year
[9:30] or two ago.
[9:31] And then I'm going to
[9:32] >> Really?
[9:33] >> I really didn't I well, I always just
[9:34] set it to like day or hour and then
[9:37] moved it back and forward. I never
[9:39] I was never like doing much with long
[9:41] enough increments of time to need to
[9:43] jump forward like 100 years or or what
[9:46] have you, you know, in terms of
[9:47] repetitions.
[9:49] >> Right. I mean, if you really wanted to
[9:50] be precise with the Venus cycle, it's
[9:52] 2,920
[9:54] days, which is 2 days less than 8 years,
[9:56] but you know, um
[9:58] >> Okay.
[9:59] Uh well, let's let's keep it simple with
[10:01] the 8-year jump.
[10:04] I like speaking in simplified round
[10:06] numbers. Okay, so October 2026, then we
[10:10] jump back forward 8 years to October
[10:13] 11th, 2018 and we see that Venus is
[10:14] again retrograde in Scorpio and has
[10:17] recently stationed retrograde and it's
[10:19] the same part of the year, which is
[10:22] what's really important cuz it's mapping
[10:24] not just Venus's cycles, but it's
[10:25] relationship with the Sun and the Sun is
[10:28] part of what dictates like the part of
[10:30] the year and the months. So, the fact
[10:31] that this retrograde always happens in
[10:34] the last like few months of of these
[10:37] 8-year periods.
[10:38] >> Yeah.
[10:40] >> Okay. And then same thing, 2010, Venus
[10:42] is retrograde in Scorpio. 2002, Venus is
[10:45] again retrograde in Scorpio and so on
[10:47] and so forth and it just drifts by like
[10:49] 2° per or 2 days per 8-year period.
[10:55] >> Exactly.
[10:56] >> So, one of the ones I wanted to mention
[11:00] Actually, where to start? Okay, so
[11:02] So, now
[11:05] Should we try to do Mars? I'm trying to
[11:07] think if I should segue cuz one of the
[11:08] things I I kept seeing the 40 come up
[11:11] like so important with Venus. I wanted
[11:12] to talk to you about that, but I know
[11:13] that takes us into a different planet,
[11:15] which is Mercury, right?
[11:17] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[11:18] Um yeah, Mercury's 40 and Mars is 32.
[11:22] So, if you want to do chronological, I
[11:24] would go with Jupiter at 24 and then
[11:26] Mars and then Mercury.
[11:28] Or if you just if you want to go to
[11:30] what's most dynamic, I guess go to Mars
[11:33] or you know, whatever you want.
[11:35] >> Okay, yeah. Maybe you're right. Let's
[11:37] start with the Jupiter cuz that is
[11:38] simple because Jupiter
[11:40] everybody knows is just like you have a
[11:43] 12-year cycle of Jupiter and that's how
[11:45] long it takes it to go around the zodiac
[11:47] and so that repeats
[11:48] every 12 years like really regularly and
[11:51] one of the early repetitions is at 24
[11:55] years old and since 24 is a division of
[11:59] eight, uh you have a recurrence there
[12:02] where Venus and Jupiter will line up at
[12:05] the same signs around that time.
[12:08] >> Yeah. Um except I mean it's the
[12:11] That's true in the first half of life.
[12:14] but as you know, the goal year of
[12:15] Jupiter is 71. You did that episode with
[12:18] Patrick. And and you might you might
[12:21] wonder like 71, how does it wind up
[12:23] there when you know, this Jupiter cycle
[12:25] is 12 years? Well, actually the Jupiter
[12:27] cycle isn't a perfect 12 years. I forget
[12:30] if it's 11.8 or 11.7, but it's shy of a
[12:34] perfect 12 years.
[12:35] So, what happens? This is this is the
[12:37] miracle of really joining. This is why
[12:39] Jupiter actually is a really good place
[12:41] to start actually with this.
[12:43] Um because the So, your first Jupiter
[12:47] return is at the age of 12. And then the
[12:49] next one is at the age of 24 where it
[12:51] aligns with Venus at 24 for the reasons
[12:54] you explained.
[12:55] And then the third one will be at 36.
[12:58] But by the time you get to 48, if you
[13:00] look at the solar returns between the
[13:02] ages of 47 and 48, you'll see that
[13:05] Jupiter is actually closer to the natal
[13:08] Jupiter at the at the 47th birthday than
[13:11] it's going to be at 48. That's where the
[13:14] shift happens. That's where you have the
[13:16] first solar return where the natal
[13:18] Jupiter and the return Jupiter are
[13:21] closer. They'll still be a good 10 to 15
[13:23] degrees apart and sometimes in different
[13:25] signs. But cyclically speaking, that
[13:27] Jupiter will be closer at 47 than it's
[13:30] going to be at 48, which is really
[13:32] amazing because 47 is already a Mars
[13:35] return. And so, whereas Jupiter aligns
[13:37] with Venus in the earlier in life at 24,
[13:40] later in life at 47, Mars and Jupiter,
[13:43] their cycles wind up aligning. Like for
[13:45] instance, if you look right now, we have
[13:47] the Mars-Jupiter conjunction coming up.
[13:50] Go ahead and look at the chart of
[13:51] someone who
[13:53] who's turning 47 these days. They also
[13:55] have Mars and Jupiter close together,
[13:57] both getting ready to go retrograde
[13:59] within a couple of months time just like
[14:01] they both are now.
[14:03] >> Right. So, here's the Mars and Jupiter
[14:06] in Leo right now forming that
[14:07] conjunction. And then I'll jump back
[14:09] from October 2026, 47 years.
[14:13] And yeah, you see Jupiter is in early
[14:15] Virgo and Mars is in Leo coming up on
[14:17] that conjunction.
[14:19] >> Yeah, and they would both go retrograde.
[14:21] So, that's the that's the the beautiful
[14:23] thing about Jupiter is So, at 24, it
[14:25] aligns with Venus. At 47, it aligns with
[14:28] Mars. 12 years after 47, you get to 59.
[14:32] The second Saturn return is also a
[14:35] Jupiter return and a Mercury return. 59
[14:39] is this really golden one where you get
[14:41] three planetary returns in one birthday.
[14:46] >> Okay. I think we got to build to all of
[14:48] that cuz we were starting out simple and
[14:50] then building to more advanced before we
[14:52] get
[14:53] uh to all of that. So, can we take it
[14:55] back to 24?
[14:57] >> Sure. Sure. Yeah, just to to go back to
[15:00] the Venus. Uh yeah, so to start off with
[15:03] Yeah, early in life at 24, you get that
[15:05] return between the two.
[15:07] >> So, um
[15:10] 24 because uh
[15:13] Well, what Well, I guess we'll get
[15:14] there, but Steven Spielberg is like a
[15:16] really interesting example. Like, I was
[15:17] looking at a lot of the people with the
[15:20] around the Venus retrograde in Scorpio
[15:22] in what like 46 cuz Jupiter was there
[15:26] that year, right?
[15:28] >> Yeah.
[15:29] >> Yeah, here's the Venus retrograde. That
[15:31] was like later that year uh in and it
[15:34] ended up stationing conjunct Jupiter in
[15:36] like late 1946 by like December of 1946.
[15:40] And what I thought was weird about this
[15:43] this I mean, it ties in with the other
[15:44] one, but basically
[15:47] if we take a person's chart who was born
[15:49] at this time with like Venus conjunct
[15:51] Jupiter in 1946, if we jumped forward 24
[15:56] years,
[15:57] we have a recurrence where we see like
[15:59] Venus is in Scorpio and Jupiter is in in
[16:02] Scorpio at the same time. So, there's a
[16:04] recurrence of the two benefic planets at
[16:07] 24 years old.
[16:09] >> Exactly. Yeah.
[16:11] >> Okay. So, in that 70 and then that's the
[16:13] the retrograde in 70. So,
[16:17] it's like can we say basic things about
[16:19] that? Like, can we say in some
[16:20] instances, like if a person has a
[16:22] Venus-Jupiter conjunction, that we would
[16:25] know that 24 years old may be a
[16:27] particularly benefic or
[16:29] positive that year that's tinged with
[16:31] some positive things because it's
[16:33] activating that relatively positive
[16:36] alignment in their chart, assuming it's
[16:38] not like terribly afflicted or placed
[16:41] poorly in the chart or what have you?
[16:43] >> Yeah. Yeah, that it's it's um
[16:47] it's it's getting a big kind of
[16:48] Venus-Jupiter break.
[16:52] >> Right. And an and an activation.
[16:54] >> Kind of a Yeah, and there's there'll be
[16:56] something abundant about it. Like, it'll
[16:58] be like a a feast or famine kind of
[17:00] thing.
[17:02] >> Mhm. Okay.
[17:03] All right, so that's 24 and
[17:07] >> Or famine feast.
[17:09] >> So, that's one of our earliest like
[17:11] double planetary cycles, right?
[17:13] >> Yeah.
[17:14] >> Okay. So, the next one that shows up
[17:17] then is like 8 years later
[17:20] when you get So, let's jump forward 8
[17:23] years
[17:25] I guess from there. So, 8 years after
[17:27] that when a person's 32 years old, they
[17:30] get another Venus retrograde, but that
[17:33] at that time
[17:36] How do you phrase that? If Mars was
[17:37] retrograde at that time or Mar- No, Mars
[17:40] will repeat its position at 32, whether
[17:43] it was retrograde or not, although it's
[17:45] certainly more special if it was also
[17:47] retrograde.
[17:49] >> Yeah, it'll be very close to the natal
[17:51] position. And this this was the period
[17:53] when he released um Close Encounters of
[17:55] the Third Kind.
[17:57] Uh he was the Spielberg was just about
[17:59] to turn 32 when that movie came out.
[18:02] >> Oh, nice. Well, that's a funny
[18:03] repetition then because he would release
[18:07] in the 2026, you know, earlier in the
[18:09] Venus retrograde in Scorpio year, um
[18:12] Disclosure Day.
[18:14] >> Right. And dur- And during the Venus
[18:16] retrograde in Scorpio 1994 is when he
[18:19] co-founded whatchamacallit, um the the
[18:21] big, um,
[18:23] company with with Geffen and and, uh,
[18:26] um,
[18:26] >> DreamWorks.
[18:27] >> DreamWorks, yeah. DreamWorks is Venus
[18:30] Venus retrograde in Scorpio 1994.
[18:33] >> That is the one I was building to when
[18:34] we get to 47 years old for him.
[18:37] >> Uh, sorry.
[18:38] Oopsie.
[18:40] >> This is 32 though, so 32 kept coming up
[18:43] over and over again last year because it
[18:46] seems especially important when there
[18:47] are Venus like overlapping Venus and
[18:50] Mars retrograde years, which doesn't
[18:53] always happen, but when it does,
[18:55] um, you know that exactly 32 years
[18:58] before that there was a Venus and Mars
[19:00] retrograde around the same signs, and
[19:02] you know that exactly 32 years after
[19:05] after that that there was a Venus
[19:06] retrograde and Venus and Mars retrograde
[19:08] in the same two signs, right?
[19:10] >> Exactly, yeah.
[19:12] >> So, let me, um, show that in the context
[19:15] of the current one
[19:17] to
[19:20] So, it's like here's Venus. Venus is
[19:21] stationing direct.
[19:24] How how what's the best way to show
[19:25] that? Maybe while Venus is still
[19:28] retrograde and Mars is in Leo.
[19:30] >> Mhm.
[19:31] >> I guess that would show it basically.
[19:33] >> Yeah.
[19:34] >> So, so I'll put it around the cazimi,
[19:36] which is like
[19:38] today. We're recording this on October
[19:40] 23rd, 2026.
[19:42] Uh, which is something in of itself to
[19:44] talk about, but we'll save that for
[19:45] later. I'll change it to like 32-year
[19:47] increment
[19:49] by years,
[19:50] then I'll jump back from October 23rd,
[19:52] 2026 when Mars is in Leo,
[19:54] slowing down getting ready to go
[19:56] retrograde in Virgo in Leo and Venus is
[19:58] retrograde in Scorpio. So, that takes us
[20:00] back to October 23rd, 1994. We see Mars
[20:04] is in Leo getting ready to like slow
[20:06] down and station retrograde in Virgo in
[20:08] Leo and that Venus is retrograde in
[20:11] Scorpio, um,
[20:13] yeah, having station retrograde not long
[20:15] before that, 10 days earlier.
[20:18] So, that is an exact repetition and that
[20:20] ties us back to late 1994
[20:24] much more closely than other Venus
[20:27] retrograde repetitions would I feel like
[20:30] right?
[20:31] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[20:33] Um
[20:35] And and yeah, they they do bring up
[20:36] these sort of these the these similar
[20:39] patterns to some degree, you know. Um
[20:42] this one in 1994 with the Venus
[20:44] retrograde and and being squared by Mars
[20:48] in Leo, it reminds me of the um
[20:52] the um
[20:53] the Cuban Missile Crisis 32 years
[20:56] earlier. Um which occurred during a
[20:58] Venus retrograde in Scorpio and then
[21:00] when Mars went retrograde in Leo at the
[21:02] end of the year, that was when um the US
[21:05] and and um Cuba traded prisoners, did a
[21:10] prisoner exchange as a kind of goodwill
[21:12] gesture after the whole Cuban Missile
[21:14] Crisis. Because Cuba was holding a bunch
[21:17] of a um you know, Cuban American
[21:19] prisoners from the Bay of Pigs thing and
[21:21] and so there was a
[21:22] um a prisoner release, a sort of sign of
[21:25] goodwill, you know, taking the weapons
[21:27] away. Um etc. etc.
[21:30] Um and that happened as the Mars
[21:32] retrograde followed the Venus
[21:33] retrograde.
[21:35] Um and of course the the Bay of Pigs had
[21:37] been the previous Venus retrograde. So
[21:38] yeah, there's there's something to that
[21:41] um that that rhythm that every 32 years
[21:44] we've been getting the Venus retrograde
[21:45] in Scorpio followed by a Mars retrograde
[21:48] in Leo.
[21:49] >> And um this one in the 1994 one there's
[21:53] two repetitions that come up recently.
[21:55] One of them was like the O.J. Simpson
[21:57] trial. They were doing jury selection
[22:00] during this period in late 1994 and that
[22:02] trial was just like all over the news in
[22:04] terms of themes of like domestic
[22:07] violence and
[22:09] um yeah, the the circus surrounding
[22:11] that. And then just recently in the
[22:14] news, did you see the thing that just
[22:15] came out recently where the New York
[22:17] Times ran a story saying that there was
[22:20] like good evidence that he may have
[22:22] actually had an accomplice, which had
[22:24] long been theorized, but that there was
[22:27] like somebody who talked about their
[22:30] brother like like admitting it or seeing
[22:32] him coming out with blood covering his
[22:35] hands or something like that, so that it
[22:37] was like
[22:38] it sort of filled in a missing piece
[22:40] where he I think when he did one of his
[22:42] interviews, when he was doing the like
[22:44] if I did it book tour, like he talked
[22:46] about having an accomplice, but like
[22:47] nobody really understood why at the
[22:49] time, but it kind of filled filled in
[22:51] that piece. The last thing was that the
[22:53] the
[22:56] What was I going to say? The apparently
[22:57] the prosecutors
[22:59] >> If the glove don't fit, you must acquit,
[23:01] but the glove could fit the other guy's
[23:03] hand, right?
[23:04] >> All right.
[23:05] >> That was the famous Johnny Cochran line.
[23:07] If the glove don't fit, you must acquit.
[23:09] >> Yeah, I didn't even think about that.
[23:11] Well, but what what the New York Times
[23:13] article was saying was that the
[23:14] prosecutors may have gotten evidence
[23:16] that there was like a an accomplice late
[23:19] in the trial, but they'd already like
[23:20] made their closing arguments or
[23:22] something like that. So, it's like they
[23:23] couldn't do anything with it at that
[23:25] point, which is wild if that also turns
[23:28] out to be true. But anyways, so that's a
[23:30] whole repetition with that coming up and
[23:32] then yeah, you mentioned um
[23:35] you know, Spielberg founding um
[23:38] DreamWorks. Literally, it was on the day
[23:40] that Venus stationed uh direct in
[23:43] Scorpio in 1994, and then we just had
[23:46] that huge merger with like Skydance
[23:50] basically creating a huge new
[23:53] conglomerate after buying like Warner
[23:55] Brothers recently.
[23:57] >> I think it was the day it stationed
[23:58] retrograde, not the day it stationed
[24:00] direct. I've got it October 12th that
[24:03] they they announced it and Venus
[24:04] stationed retrograde on the 12th 13th.
[24:08] >> Mhm, okay. October 12th, 1994. Well, but
[24:11] that one stood out to me and I guess
[24:12] we're jumping the gun here, but because
[24:14] that was like Spielberg was 47 years old
[24:18] >> Yeah.
[24:18] >> and so October 12th, 1994.
[24:22] Yeah, there it is. Okay, so Venus is
[24:23] stationing retrograde, but it's like
[24:24] exactly conjunct Jupiter, but it's like
[24:26] he has a Venus Jupiter conjunction in
[24:29] his birth chart in the fifth house, and
[24:32] Venus is like coming out of that
[24:33] retrograde in Scorpio. So, it was like
[24:35] kind of a crazy recurrence for him at 47
[24:39] years old, not just of Venus retrograde
[24:41] in Scorpio, but also of a Venus-Jupiter
[24:44] conjunction, which is so highly
[24:45] beneficent for him um in his in his
[24:48] chart.
[24:50] >> Yeah. Yeah, if you if you did his solar
[24:52] return, cuz of course his birthday's at
[24:53] the end of the year. His birthday's like
[24:55] 2 months after the deal was signed. If
[24:57] you look at his solar return for when he
[24:59] turned 47, you would see Mars very close
[25:02] to the natal position. You would see
[25:04] Jupiter about 10 to 15° earlier than the
[25:08] natal position, but again, like I'm
[25:09] saying, closer at that age, and it's
[25:11] making a return along with the Mars.
[25:13] Um so, and then and then of course he's
[25:16] born after the Venus direct station in
[25:18] his own chart, and
[25:20] um the DreamWorks thing was happening as
[25:22] the Venus retrograde tr- transit was um
[25:25] you know, initiated. Um and that's
[25:28] what's funny about the DreamWorks
[25:29] project is you have these three, you
[25:31] know, big egos, and it kind of worked
[25:34] for a little while, but it was kind of
[25:36] was you know, it was it was too too
[25:38] small for the three of them, I suppose.
[25:41] Um
[25:42] Obviously, it's on the way.
[25:44] Um so, yeah. Um basically, yeah, 47,
[25:47] almost 48, you can see how the the
[25:50] the Venus retrograde, the the
[25:52] Venus-Jupiter recurrence transit, the
[25:54] fact that Mars and Jupiter make that
[25:56] return at 47 at his prior solar return,
[26:00] all coming together.
[26:02] >> So, and the the solar return thing, so
[26:05] here's the solar return chart, and
[26:08] what are you saying about the solar
[26:09] return chart from 1993, right?
[26:12] >> Yeah. Um you can see the Mars is in
[26:14] Sagittarius, very close to his natal
[26:16] Mars.
[26:18] Right, where's his natal Mars?
[26:21] And then Jupiter is about 10 to 15°
[26:24] earlier than the natal Jupiter.
[26:27] At 47.
[26:28] >> Okay.
[26:29] >> If you put it on the biwheel with his
[26:31] natal chart. Yeah.
[26:33] >> Got it. Okay. Um so here's his natal
[26:35] chart.
[26:37] Yeah, cuz that's bringing up something I
[26:39] wanted to ask you and talk to you about,
[26:40] but here's his chart again just with
[26:42] Cancer rising, Venus at 19 Scorpio
[26:45] conjunct Jupiter at 17, and Venus is
[26:47] moving slow cuz it literally just
[26:49] stationed like 10 days before he was he
[26:51] was born or stationed direct 10 day 10
[26:54] days before he was born. So that's crazy
[26:56] starting that studio in 1994 because
[27:00] that was um
[27:01] the first time that a big like Hollywood
[27:03] studio had been started in in like
[27:05] decades at that point. And they very
[27:08] quickly went on to they had like three
[27:11] best picture winners in like 1999, 2000,
[27:14] and 2001 all in a row. And then they
[27:16] also ended up launching um you know, the
[27:19] animated division that that created
[27:21] Shrek, for example.
[27:23] Um so it did a lot of really important
[27:25] stuff, and that was a pretty notable
[27:27] thing uh that keeps standing out to me
[27:29] as a recurrence. And that's even aside
[27:31] from mentioning that like like '94 was a
[27:34] pretty crazy year for him like aside
[27:36] from that, wasn't it?
[27:38] >> Um well, that I mean, he he had all that
[27:41] stuff going on. The
[27:43] he had already just done Jurassic Park
[27:46] and Schindler's List, right? Like kind
[27:48] of back-to-back.
[27:50] If I remember correctly.
[27:52] That was leading up to this. Um
[27:56] And um yeah, I mean, he would he would
[27:59] make The Lost or The Lost World would be
[28:01] made 2 years after this. At the
[28:03] um but um
[28:05] yeah, I don't know. I don't know like
[28:07] cuz I think starting the company with
[28:08] Geffen and Katzenberg was was part of
[28:10] the hard thing because of the
[28:12] the the personalities involved. Uh but
[28:15] obviously, like you're saying, like it
[28:17] was a
[28:18] you know, it did some they they did some
[28:20] really important work for a stretch of
[28:21] time.
[28:23] >> Yeah, like I said, I was just trying to
[28:24] understand why
[28:26] this recurrence was so important to him.
[28:29] And
[28:30] what I was seeing was just that it was a
[28:34] um
[28:34] repetition of like his needle Venus
[28:36] retrograde in Scorpio
[28:39] and that also Jupiter was there as well
[28:42] and it was also like a recurrence of a
[28:43] conjunction between Venus and Jupiter,
[28:46] but it was like an amplified one because
[28:48] Venus was stationing at the same time.
[28:51] >> Yeah, I think that the idea is like, you
[28:53] know, remember he's George Lucas's
[28:55] friend and George Lucas is the guy who
[28:57] started an effects company when he's
[29:00] making Star Wars because the
[29:02] people he hired weren't good enough and
[29:04] so he had to start his own effects
[29:05] company and he's juggling all that stuff
[29:08] so much so that Empire Strikes Back and
[29:10] the the
[29:11] you know, Return of the Jedi aren't
[29:13] directed by George Lucas because he's so
[29:15] focused on all this technological stuff.
[29:18] And Spielberg is with him, you know,
[29:21] he's his pal all the way through this.
[29:23] He's he's the only friend who's
[29:25] encouraging about the rough cut of Star
[29:26] Wars when uh Brian De Palma and and
[29:29] Martin Scorsese are you know, don't
[29:31] >> [clears throat]
[29:31] >> think think
[29:33] he's lost his mind, you know, George has
[29:34] lost his mind and and Coppola. Um
[29:37] so Spielberg like DreamWorks means, you
[29:40] know, everything's sort of consolidated.
[29:42] He's he's just done the Jurassic Park
[29:45] thing. He's just done the Schindler's
[29:47] List thing and so now he's like um you
[29:50] know, he's a lover of old cinema and and
[29:52] having um you know, a studio of that
[29:56] magnitude that can have the the
[29:58] versatility and the resources that the
[30:01] old-fashioned studios have had. Uh I
[30:04] think there was something about him that
[30:05] really wanted that, you know, there's
[30:07] there's a part of him that is of course
[30:09] very um the you know, sort of old
[30:12] school, right? You know, his
[30:14] uh even though he was he was part of
[30:16] this this pack of
[30:19] new new cinema icons with with your De
[30:22] Palmas and your Coppolas and your
[30:23] Scorseses. Uh he was always kind of you
[30:26] know, more family-friendly
[30:28] and
[30:30] um
[30:31] well, I don't know if Jaws is
[30:32] family-friendly, but it's still it's
[30:33] about family. Um
[30:35] and and so yeah, he's got an old school
[30:38] view of cinema of of the cinema world,
[30:42] you know, and a kind of innocence. And I
[30:44] think there was something about having
[30:46] DreamWorks that was giving him the
[30:48] feeling that he was going to have, you
[30:51] know, [snorts] all of that. And and I,
[30:52] you know, I guess he did. I mean, more
[30:54] than anyone else has.
[30:56] >> Right. Yeah.
[30:58] Um, and then he won a his first Academy
[31:01] Award earlier that year as well for like
[31:04] the 1993 movies.
[31:06] Um,
[31:08] for Schindler's List.
[31:11] So, let's see, Best Director and Best
[31:13] Picture. And that's something that keeps
[31:15] coming up. I don't know if you have any
[31:16] insight into that I'm struggling with,
[31:18] which is I'm seeing
[31:20] obviously around the time of the If a
[31:22] person was born with like let's say
[31:24] Venus retrograde in Scorpio,
[31:26] I'm seeing when Venus goes retrograde in
[31:29] Scorpio, like actually goes retrograde
[31:30] again during that specific month or two
[31:33] or part of the year, in the eight-year
[31:35] increments often the most important
[31:37] things happen, but sometimes I'm seeing
[31:40] um things happen in their chronology
[31:42] that show up earlier in that year that
[31:45] are still obviously like quite
[31:47] important. And sometimes you can kind of
[31:50] like explain that because there's still
[31:51] lingering things coming out of it, but
[31:53] it's like sometimes the effect seems to
[31:57] be encapsulating that year for some
[31:59] reason that I don't fully understand.
[32:01] And I don't know if you have any insight
[32:02] into that or if that's just
[32:04] part of the phenomenon, but as I'm
[32:06] studying recurrence transits of of these
[32:09] in particular, it stood out a lot.
[32:12] >> Yeah, I think I think some of the some
[32:14] of the answer comes down to which other
[32:16] planets are interacting with the given
[32:19] Venus retrograde
[32:21] um what schedule, you know? Like in 1970
[32:24] and 1994, Jupiter's in Scorpio at both
[32:28] those times with the Venus retrograde in
[32:29] Scorpio. Or in 1978 and uh um
[32:34] uh
[32:35] 2010, you have in Scorpio along with the
[32:38] Venus retrograde in Scorpio. You know,
[32:40] so there there just sort of there are
[32:42] these subdivisions of them and if you
[32:44] really know someone's timeline, um some
[32:47] of these things that are happening
[32:48] before the Venus retrograde like earlier
[32:50] in the year might tie into how one of
[32:54] the other planets aligns with the the
[32:57] Venus retrograde Scorpio as a
[32:58] combination of some kind. Not even
[33:00] necessarily as a as a conjunction, but
[33:02] there might be some kind of recurrence
[33:04] transit involving Venus and another
[33:06] planet that also plays out for that
[33:08] person.
[33:10] >> Okay. Yeah.
[33:12] That could make sense. Um
[33:15] I don't know. There's just still there's
[33:16] still something there that sometimes
[33:18] that shows up in like earlier that year
[33:21] and I would like to understand that that
[33:23] better somehow at some point. Um all
[33:26] right. So, let's move on. So, we did 32.
[33:28] The next one's probably like 40, right?
[33:31] >> Yeah, in terms of in terms of big coming
[33:33] together, yeah, absolutely. Um
[33:35] >> So, 40 I keep seeing 40 in doing the
[33:38] Venus retrograde research come up like
[33:40] really strongly as a repetition with the
[33:43] Venus retrograde in Scorpio ones, which
[33:46] I I I because yeah, every every 40 years
[33:49] like if you're born with Venus
[33:50] retrograde in Scorpio, then when you're
[33:53] 40, um Venus will go retrograde again in
[33:55] Scorpio in that year. But one of the
[33:58] things you've pointed out is that that
[33:59] overlaps with another planetary cycle as
[34:02] well, right?
[34:03] >> Yeah, it overlaps with Mercury.
[34:06] Um because you'll get a you'll get a
[34:08] Mercury return, you know, um at at 40
[34:11] years. That's one of the return years.
[34:14] And um
[34:15] you know, 20 being a Mercury year and
[34:18] actual Mercury return at 20 is a little
[34:20] wider than at 40, but you know, that is
[34:23] like like it's used in the in time lord
[34:25] systems.
[34:26] Um
[34:28] but 40 is where it aligns with Venus cuz
[34:30] Venus doesn't fit into, you know, eight
[34:32] doesn't fit into 20, but it fits into
[34:33] 40. So, at 40 you get um uh Venus and
[34:37] and Mercury both having returns
[34:40] simultaneously.
[34:42] >> All right. So, let me since we're using
[34:44] Spielberg, why don't we just use his
[34:45] chart again
[34:47] even though it's not
[34:50] like retrograde or something like that,
[34:52] but he's born December 18th, 1946.
[34:55] Venus is in Scorpio, Mercury's in
[34:57] Sagittarius, and if we jump forward 40
[35:00] years, that brings us to December 18th,
[35:02] 1986,
[35:04] where Venus is just coming off of a
[35:06] retrograde in Scorpio, just like it was
[35:08] when he was born, and Mercury's there in
[35:11] Sagittarius again, and actually, if we
[35:14] do that in the present, it'll actually
[35:15] be more
[35:18] um impressive, probably, because we have
[35:21] a simultaneous like Venus and Mercury
[35:24] retrograde happening right now, right?
[35:27] >> Yeah.
[35:28] Yeah, exactly. Um Spielberg was was
[35:31] making Empire of the Sun. Um
[35:35] uh
[35:36] it's it's a good movie, but it wasn't a
[35:38] big hit, but um
[35:40] it has a very young Christian Bale
[35:42] making his his first big movie role in
[35:44] it as a boy.
[35:46] Um it's worth checking out.
[35:49] Um
[35:50] >> Nice. Yeah, I've been meaning to see
[35:51] that.
[35:53] Um okay, so if I
[35:56] So, October 23rd, 2026, today, we see
[36:00] Venus is like conjunct the Sun in the
[36:01] middle of the retrograde, and Mercury's
[36:03] stationing retrograde in Scorpio. If I
[36:05] jump back 40 years to October of like
[36:08] 1986,
[36:10] um we see that Venus is retrograde in
[36:12] Scorpio, and Mercury is like 9 days from
[36:15] stationing retrograde. So, we're about
[36:17] to have a Venus and a Mercury retrograde
[36:19] in Scorpio, or if we go back to 2026, if
[36:23] we jump forward 40 years to 2066,
[36:27] um we see Venus is getting towards the
[36:29] end of a Venus retrograde in Scorpio and
[36:32] Libra, and Mercury is retrograde in
[36:35] Scorpio, so that's pretty
[36:37] good, at least across like one or two
[36:41] two increments, cuz you know, some of
[36:42] these obviously across long span of time
[36:45] will drift a lot when you're talking
[36:47] about the signs, right?
[36:49] >> Yeah, I'm talking about in a human
[36:51] lifetime, you know, um when when it's I
[36:54] mean, yeah, absolutely when you're
[36:55] trying to plot it along um in in mundane
[36:58] astrology over longer periods of time,
[37:00] it's a it it is a little more
[37:02] complicated, but there is a logic to it
[37:04] and there is a way to follow those
[37:06] cycles over longer periods of time. But
[37:07] in a human lifetime, the age of 40 is
[37:10] where Venus and Mercury make a return no
[37:13] matter where your, you know, they are in
[37:15] your chart whether they're retrograde or
[37:16] otherwise.
[37:18] Um obviously with the retrogrades, they
[37:20] wind up being, you know, it's a little
[37:22] sort of wonky like you you showed 40
[37:24] years from now, the Venus retrograde in
[37:26] Scorpio isn't going to be in Scorpio at
[37:28] all. It's just going to be in Libra, you
[37:30] know.
[37:31] Um
[37:32] >> Right. But yeah, that makes sense for
[37:35] like a human life.
[37:37] Um
[37:37] >> Yeah.
[37:39] >> And cuz like 40 kept coming up as being
[37:42] a big one with the
[37:44] repetitions with like movies and stuff
[37:46] where
[37:47] like um
[37:49] you know, one of the cool historical
[37:50] ones when I was researching Venus
[37:52] retrograde in Scorpio in history was
[37:53] like the first James Bond film coming
[37:55] out around that Venus retrograde in
[37:57] Scorpio in 1962.
[37:59] And then what was weird is like most of
[38:01] the other Bond films didn't really come
[38:03] out on recurrences. There there was
[38:05] maybe some like behind the scenes or
[38:07] like other stuff happening in terms of
[38:08] the
[38:09] series that that were happening around
[38:12] those, but the only other main one that
[38:14] really came out and it came out very
[38:16] closely on the repetition was the 2002
[38:19] Bond film that was exactly like 40 years
[38:22] af- after the first one. And that was
[38:24] the one that like Halle Berry was in and
[38:27] um I think that was the last one that I
[38:29] think that Pierce Brosnan was in before
[38:31] they just like rebooted the whole series
[38:33] with Daniel Craig.
[38:35] >> Yeah. Yeah, that that all sounds very
[38:38] familiar to me. Um and yeah, I mean, I
[38:41] remember looking into the the the Bond
[38:43] movies and and indeed while the first
[38:45] movie comes out um
[38:47] in '62, at least in Britain, um during
[38:50] that Venus retrograde, none of the
[38:52] others do. The only other thing I know
[38:54] about that James Bond related and
[38:56] coincides with Venus retrograde is
[39:00] George Lazenby,
[39:02] who would be who would only be in the in
[39:04] one movie,
[39:06] which came out in winter of '69.
[39:12] On Her Majesty's
[39:14] Secret On Her Majesty's Secret
[39:16] Whatever that one is, with Diana Rigg.
[39:20] And he was sort of this controversial
[39:22] choice, and then I think after the movie
[39:24] came out, he grew his hair and became
[39:25] kind of a hippie and and didn't fit the
[39:27] James Bond mold. But that's that's
[39:30] really kind of,
[39:32] you know, the only thing. And And even
[39:34] like most of the actors, you know, Roger
[39:36] Moore was born a little bit after a
[39:38] Venus retrograde, but, you know, a
[39:40] little out of the range.
[39:43] Ian Fleming was born somewhat close to a
[39:46] Venus retrograde in Cancer.
[39:48] >> Yeah, so
[39:50] um
[39:50] 40 So, I saw that repetition with James
[39:53] Bond at 40. I saw another one with like
[39:55] Halloween, where um
[39:58] they did the first Halloween around the
[39:59] Venus retrograde in Scorpio in 1978, and
[40:02] then 40 years later,
[40:04] Jamie Lee Curtis comes back and they do
[40:06] another Halloween movie in 2018 during
[40:09] that Venus retrograde in Scorpio. And um
[40:12] they decide to like ignore like all of
[40:14] the sequels and movies that had happened
[40:17] in the interim and just like do a direct
[40:19] sequel of her now 40 years later as a
[40:22] grandmother and all the things like
[40:25] associated with that and like teaching
[40:27] her family to fight Michael Myers, who
[40:28] shows up again and doing a sort of like
[40:31] almost like a soft reboot in some sense.
[40:34] Um
[40:35] >> She's born with the Sun Venus
[40:36] conjunction, like not retrograde, but
[40:38] the flip side to it. She's born at the
[40:41] exterior conjunction, the superior
[40:43] conjunction of Sun and Venus in Scorpio.
[40:46] >> In Scorpio, okay. I've seen a bunch of
[40:48] those. Like um
[40:49] One of them that's in the news right now
[40:51] is, uh
[40:52] uh, who is who's do did Verity and Anne
[40:55] Hathaway? Anne Hathaway, I believe, is
[40:57] the direct
[40:58] >> Sun Venus conjunction in Scorpio, and
[41:02] like, he's having a big moment, um,
[41:05] with that movie that dropped. I think it
[41:07] came out like within a few days Verity
[41:09] earlier this month of Venus stationing
[41:11] retro retrograde in Scorpio, and then
[41:13] the book was written exactly eight years
[41:15] earlier under the previous Venus
[41:17] retrograde in Scorpio.
[41:18] >> Mhm. Yeah, no, there there's there is a
[41:21] correspondence between those exterior
[41:23] conjunctions and the the their interior
[41:25] counterparts, which, of course, happen
[41:27] four years apart from each other, right?
[41:30] Um,
[41:31] uh,
[41:31] um, Anne Hathaway and, uh, Jamie Lee
[41:34] Curtis were born four years after a
[41:36] Venus retrograde in Scorpio and four
[41:38] years before a Venus retrograde in
[41:39] Scorpio.
[41:41] >> Yeah, so let's explore that cuz that's
[41:43] been really important, and I'd like to
[41:45] understand it better, the
[41:46] interrelationship between
[41:49] the interior conjunction and the
[41:51] exterior conjunction or inferior versus
[41:54] superior conjunction, whatever you want
[41:56] to call it, the direct conjunction
[41:58] versus the retrograde conjunction,
[42:00] because, um,
[42:01] yeah, that does seem to sometimes mark
[42:04] the people that have the direct
[42:05] conjunction as then having important
[42:09] stuff happen at the at the retrogrades,
[42:11] the retrograde conjunction.
[42:13] >> Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, they'll
[42:16] they'll already have, you know, the
[42:18] planet in that same path, and there is
[42:20] just this kind of counterpoint to the
[42:22] rhythm.
[42:24] Um, and, you know, think about it this
[42:26] way, too. Presuming Presuming babies,
[42:29] uh, are born nine months to term,
[42:31] someone who's conceived during a Sun
[42:33] Venus exterior conjunction will be born
[42:35] during a Venus retrograde, and someone
[42:37] born with a Venus
[42:39] Someone conceived during a Venus
[42:40] retrograde will be born with the
[42:41] exterior conjunction.
[42:44] >> Oh, okay, interesting. So that could be
[42:46] relevant in terms of tying things
[42:48] together.
[42:49] >> It sure can be. Yep.
[42:52] >> Okay. All right.
[42:53] >> Yeah.
[42:53] >> Um
[42:55] I don't have Anne Hathaway. We don't
[42:56] have a birth time for Anne Hathaway,
[42:58] right?
[42:59] >> I don't think so.
[43:00] >> Jeff, you're in your files. So, here's
[43:02] her chart for just a random noon noon
[43:05] one.
[43:06] And um yeah, it's like Sun at 20
[43:09] Scorpio, Jupiter at 20
[43:12] and Venus at 20 Scorpio, all direct,
[43:15] November 12th, 1982.
[43:18] And she's just been doing this like huge
[43:20] press run for this movie that came out
[43:22] earlier this month, the beginning of
[43:25] the year. And what's funny is like her
[43:26] other co-star in it is uh Dakota
[43:29] Johnson, who's also having a huge
[43:31] moment, who also has Venus in in
[43:33] Scorpio.
[43:34] And
[43:36] the theme of the movie is also like very
[43:38] Venus in Scorpio as well.
[43:40] Um
[43:41] but
[43:43] it's a notable instance, like we were
[43:45] saying, is that she doesn't have a
[43:46] retrograde Venus in Scorpio, but she
[43:48] just has the name placement and she's
[43:51] very close to the conjunction. And so,
[43:52] I've been seeing instances of that, as
[43:54] well as instances of just like either
[43:57] people that have
[43:59] Venus [clears throat] in Scorpio just on
[44:00] its own, like Dakota Johnson, coming
[44:02] into the news more, or in other
[44:04] instances, people that have like Scorpio
[44:07] rising, for example, in their chart
[44:09] becoming more prominent at this time.
[44:11] You've used that for like rectification,
[44:13] right?
[44:14] >> Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I I use all the
[44:17] planetary cycles for rectification. Um
[44:21] that that's the beauty of of knowing
[44:23] them is is you you can
[44:26] you have a better sense of their their
[44:28] placement, you know, where those where
[44:30] those returns are going to happen, when
[44:32] they're going to happen.
[44:33] >> Right. Right. Yeah.
[44:35] Um and that sometimes like
[44:38] if you don't know a rising sign, but if
[44:39] you have a prospective rising sign, I
[44:41] mean, that's how you You're the one of
[44:43] the people that figured out Hillary
[44:44] Clinton's rising sign correctly based on
[44:46] that What was it? A Mars retrograde in
[44:48] in that sign?
[44:49] >> Mars. Yeah. Yeah, the Mars retrograde. I
[44:51] thought she was Gemini rising. Um
[44:55] the the Mars retrograde that went from
[44:59] cancer to Gemini closer to her
[45:01] ascendant. I think it was just in yeah
[45:03] cancer to Gemini in
[45:05] 1960 when she was disillusioned living
[45:08] in Chicago and seeing how
[45:12] the the Kennedy election was was rigged
[45:15] in in Chicago. You know that there was
[45:17] uh
[45:18] uh untoward there were untoward
[45:20] practices
[45:22] leading to to Kennedy's victory and she
[45:24] was disillusioned by that. And then
[45:28] um
[45:28] it was at the next retrograde 15 years
[45:31] later that she married Bill Clinton in
[45:33] 1975 when Mars was going retrograde from
[45:35] cancer into Gemini.
[45:37] Um and there might have been something
[45:40] Oh yeah 2018 2008 rather. Mars was going
[45:43] retrograde from cancer to Gemini in 2007
[45:46] 2008 right when Obama
[45:49] sort of started to take the lead in the
[45:51] campaign.
[45:52] >> Mhm.
[45:53] >> Um
[45:54] and so that was that was those three.
[45:56] Those were the three times that Mars
[45:57] went retrograde.
[45:59] Excuse me from cancer to Gemini.
[46:02] And those were three clearly important
[46:04] events in her life and I was like okay
[46:05] that's likely the the the ascendant
[46:07] then.
[46:08] Cuz the the dispute was always this AM
[46:10] PM thing but I said well those
[46:13] those Mars transits just make me think
[46:14] that that's that's the right rising.
[46:17] >> Yeah that makes sense and then it that
[46:19] turned out to be right so when the birth
[46:21] certificate came out so that was
[46:23] impressive. So that's good for 40 after
[46:26] that 47 is like the next basic cycle
[46:29] right?
[46:30] >> Yeah 47 is Mars and Jupiter.
[46:34] >> Okay so Mars and Jupiter and the Mars
[46:36] one is especially strong because that's
[46:39] like one of the Babylonian goal year
[46:41] periods and you know that very pretty
[46:42] closely by sign and and somewhat by
[46:45] degrees that Mars will like retrograde
[46:47] in the same spot in the zodiac every 47
[46:50] years.
[46:51] >> Yeah yeah. It can it can still be about
[46:54] 10 degrees off or so but you know, for
[46:57] Mars that's still pretty good.
[47:00] >> Okay. So, here is the um
[47:03] Let's bring it up to the present time.
[47:06] Like uh I don't know, I guess October
[47:08] 23rd,
[47:09] 2026. And if I switch it to 47
[47:14] years,
[47:15] and I take it back, that takes us back
[47:17] to October 23rd, 1979, and Mars is
[47:21] in Leo
[47:23] getting ready to station retrograde in
[47:26] Virgo 84 days later. It'll retrograde at
[47:28] 15 Virgo.
[47:30] And um
[47:33] Yeah, so that's 47.
[47:36] But then that's
[47:38] >> And if you go to 19 If you go to 1932,
[47:41] you'll see the same thing again.
[47:43] Uh you'll see Mars and Jupiter are both
[47:45] going to go retrograde in Virgo.
[47:47] It's always a little bit later in the
[47:49] zodiac, as you see, it's gradually
[47:51] moving backwards, but you can see that
[47:53] Mars headed towards the Jupiter again,
[47:55] and they're both going to make those
[47:56] retrogrades.
[47:58] >> There we go. Okay, yeah. So, October
[48:00] 1932, and Mars is
[48:02] getting ready. Yeah, I was looking at
[48:04] this the other day. I guess you and I
[48:05] talked about it in the casual podcast of
[48:07] that. I'm not stoked about that
[48:09] recurrence right now of the 32 early 33
[48:14] Mars retrograde, and especially the
[48:16] lineup of like Mars, Jupiter, South
[48:18] Node, which is repeating now.
[48:20] Um
[48:21] But okay, so 47, but so 47 is important
[48:25] though, not just because of Mars, but
[48:28] you're saying it's also important
[48:29] because of the the 12-year slippage of
[48:31] Jupiter shortens it, so so that instead
[48:35] of 48, it starts being 47 by this point
[48:37] in the life?
[48:39] >> Exactly. 47 is where it switches. This
[48:42] is why it eventually winds up having the
[48:44] goal year of 71, because it instead of
[48:47] going to 48, you go to 47, then to 59,
[48:50] then to 71. And that's how that 12-year
[48:53] rhythm keeps repeating after the one
[48:55] diversion at 47 of making it just 11
[48:58] years. If you catch my drift.
[49:01] >> Okay, got it. So,
[49:03] cuz I see like
[49:05] it's like a little off, but I see just
[49:07] because of the drift in degrees, it's
[49:09] like Jupiter's in Leo
[49:11] here in like late 2026.
[49:14] Um Jupiter's in like early Virgo in 1979
[49:18] at this time.
[49:20] And then before that, Jupiter was in
[49:22] like mid Virgo in in 1932 around this
[49:25] time.
[49:27] Um although it looks like 47 years from
[49:31] now in like 2073, Jupiter will be in Leo
[49:34] and Mars will be in Leo getting ready to
[49:36] go retrograde in Leo and Virgo.
[49:40] >> Exactly. Um
[49:42] yeah, I mean again, it's a cyclical
[49:44] return.
[49:45] So, you're not going to you know, it's
[49:47] not like it's going to be right on the
[49:49] money at 48, it's going to be even
[49:51] further from the natal Jupiter than it
[49:53] will be at 47.
[49:55] Which is what pulled me into the 47
[49:57] thing because I realized you don't Once
[49:59] you get that far out, you have to make
[50:01] the correction for it to still be in
[50:03] range of a return.
[50:05] >> Got it. Okay. And that correction is
[50:08] what the Mesopotamian astrologers
[50:10] realized was was really significant for
[50:12] all of these planets in long-term
[50:13] cycles.
[50:15] >> Exactly. I mean, that's the thing. Um as
[50:17] you and I have discussed before, um I
[50:19] had a vague idea that what I was doing
[50:22] was somewhat Babylonian, but I you know,
[50:25] I just went out and looked.
[50:27] You know, like that that it it is as
[50:29] simple as that. You you know, you
[50:30] rediscover something that you know,
[50:33] probably all of the ancient sky gazers
[50:37] noticed of their own accord. You know,
[50:39] that there was once a Chinese astronomer
[50:41] who did it and once a Persian and once a
[50:43] a Mayan. Like you know, they all would
[50:45] have known this. This would have been
[50:47] fundamental astrology.
[50:49] >> Right. Yeah.
[50:51] Yeah, cuz especially if you're just
[50:53] going out
[50:54] every night and you're observing the
[50:55] movement of the stars in the sky, and
[50:58] then you also have you're regularly
[51:01] reading and copying these especially in
[51:04] Mesopotamia like hundreds of years of
[51:06] records of sky watchers noting where the
[51:09] planets were and then just seeing those
[51:12] patterns and realizing the repetitions
[51:13] but I what I realized is missing in the
[51:16] what I realized it what that's missing
[51:17] in the academic discussions about this
[51:19] is I'm seeing everything happening in
[51:20] the world and in the news today is the
[51:23] ancient Mesopotamian astrologers they
[51:25] weren't just seeing like that the cycles
[51:27] repeated in the sky but they were seeing
[51:30] like events on earth repeating and
[51:32] echoing and like similar themes coming
[51:34] up with Venus every eight years they
[51:36] were connecting periods in the past with
[51:40] events in the present and that's like
[51:42] the missing piece that if you think
[51:43] about it and now that I'm paying
[51:46] attention to it and we are we're all
[51:47] paying attention to it today and seeing
[51:49] how striking the eight-year repetitions
[51:51] are you know they would have been even
[51:53] more hyper aware of some of those things
[51:56] and and writing some of them down.
[51:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. And and at some point not
[52:02] even writing them down because they're
[52:03] almost second nature. I think this is
[52:05] part of the reason like we don't see it
[52:06] really mentioned in a lot of like you
[52:09] know actual astrological text because
[52:12] um this would have been just like
[52:14] fundamental material like you're not
[52:16] even
[52:17] on the astrological playing field unless
[52:19] you know your planetary returns. You're
[52:21] not even picking up an astrology book
[52:24] um if you don't already know this stuff
[52:27] you know back back in the day.
[52:29] Um and and and this would have this
[52:31] would have existed before they they
[52:33] would have noticed this before they came
[52:35] up with a horoscopic system. Like you
[52:37] would have to know this in order to do
[52:39] it.
[52:40] >> Yeah. Well, that's one of the things
[52:42] I've been thinking about a lot lately is
[52:43] like sometimes you'll see when the
[52:45] traditional revival happened and we
[52:47] discovered time lords there was the idea
[52:49] of like that the Hellenistic astrologers
[52:51] would use time lords first and then
[52:53] transits are like a lower level or like
[52:55] last level timing system
[52:58] and have been but there there was kind
[53:00] of like an overcorrection in that
[53:01] movement so that sometimes like
[53:03] contemporary traditional astrologers
[53:05] will like dis transits or say that
[53:07] that's not really even like
[53:09] a focus of ancient or traditional
[53:11] astrology, but like in a Mesopotamian
[53:13] context that's completely false because
[53:16] of this focus on not just transits, but
[53:19] also recurring cycles, which eventually
[53:21] became the basis of planetary periods,
[53:24] and then planetary periods became the
[53:25] basis of most of the time lord systems
[53:28] themselves, like zodiac releasing and
[53:30] decennials and other stuff like that
[53:32] that are like using planetary periods in
[53:34] different ways.
[53:36] >> Yeah, and in on my part it was kind of
[53:38] ironic that it was learning Hellenistic
[53:40] astrology and learning those time lord
[53:42] systems that got me interested in going
[53:45] back and looking at this more
[53:47] um essential material, you know, that
[53:49] this this original astrology. So, yeah,
[53:52] I I kind of retrofit my way um to this
[53:56] position
[53:57] um thankfully through learning
[53:59] Hellenistic astrology.
[54:01] >> Right.
[54:02] So, so with some of the things though,
[54:04] the periods that we have up to this
[54:05] point, like that means that there's
[54:08] certain things where if people have
[54:10] certain combinations of planets, then we
[54:12] already know certain years that are
[54:15] going to be particularly important for
[54:16] them because they're going to experience
[54:18] a recurrence transit during those years,
[54:20] such as for example,
[54:22] um let's say somebody has like a Mars
[54:26] Jupiter conjunction,
[54:28] then we know that at like 47 years old
[54:30] they'll have like a recurrence of that
[54:32] Mars Jupiter conjunction, right?
[54:34] >> Exactly. Yeah. Or people with Venus Mars
[54:37] conjunction at 32, they'll have that
[54:39] conjunction again.
[54:41] Absolutely. And it's And again, it's 64.
[54:45] >> At 64.
[54:47] >> Yeah. At 56 you get a Venus and and
[54:50] nodal
[54:52] return,
[54:53] uh which is interesting uh particularly
[54:55] in nocturnal charts. And then at 59, as
[54:58] I was saying earlier, you get Mercury,
[55:00] Jupiter, and Saturn all in one.
[55:04] >> Okay. Uh yeah, let's get there in in but
[55:06] just like
[55:07] so as a predictive technique, it means
[55:09] any ancient astrologer could know and
[55:12] this can be the basis of like some
[55:13] mysterious predictions that it's like
[55:17] you know, some of that's still in some
[55:18] of the traditional text and some of the
[55:19] ancient text, but that you could go
[55:21] through and like write out a series of
[55:23] delineations like
[55:25] if you have this combination, then at
[55:27] this year in your life such and such
[55:28] will take place, which is like one of
[55:30] those almost like
[55:32] sort of mysterious legendary type like
[55:35] astrologer things, but this actually
[55:36] does provide a really solid technical
[55:39] basis for doing that.
[55:41] >> Absolutely. Absolutely.
[55:44] >> Nice. Okay, I like that. I want to work
[55:46] that out more and that's part of the
[55:48] purpose of this episode is I want to
[55:49] build a foundation of just like going
[55:50] through some of the cycles, but then
[55:53] yeah, being able to construct something
[55:54] like that because I know
[55:57] you added another piece to it was which
[55:59] was annual perfections and it might be
[56:03] too much to go into that fully today cuz
[56:05] I want to finish a few of the other
[56:07] cycles, but that is another piece that
[56:08] you're adding into this as well that is
[56:11] is allowing you to identify certain
[56:13] years in particular ways, right?
[56:17] >> Yeah, and it's it's in a manner that's
[56:18] approaching what you mentioned, you
[56:20] know, seeing in these ancient texts
[56:22] people saying if you have this
[56:24] combination, this will happen to you at
[56:25] this age. Um
[56:27] it yeah, it's it's my it's my contention
[56:30] that annual perfections were were always
[56:33] used with planetary cycles.
[56:36] Um that they you know, they they're
[56:38] probably part of the same technique
[56:39] really. You know, like it's not like you
[56:41] use this with that. It's like no, they
[56:43] they they go together. They absolutely
[56:45] go together.
[56:47] And um and there are a bunch of very
[56:50] interesting I mean, you know, we can
[56:51] call them shortcuts, but not in the
[56:53] cheating sense, but there are certain
[56:55] house placements for a planet you where
[56:57] you know, it's going to be making a
[56:58] cyclical return in the perfected sign at
[57:01] a certain age and that can give you such
[57:04] a jump in terms of the being able to
[57:06] absorb a chart, being able to think of a
[57:09] person's life in a in a more sort of
[57:12] macro context even if you're seeing them
[57:14] on one particular afternoon in their
[57:16] life.
[57:17] Um, you know, you can look at a chart
[57:19] and get have some sense of of
[57:22] these these different periods that
[57:23] they've probably gone through.
[57:25] >> Okay. I like that.
[57:27] >> Yeah, we can we can definitely cover
[57:29] that in depth in a in another episode.
[57:32] >> Yeah. All right. Everybody in the
[57:33] YouTube comments, let us know. Drop us a
[57:35] comment if you want us to do a follow-up
[57:37] episode where we
[57:39] show how to integrate annual profections
[57:41] with the planetary periods techniques
[57:43] and we'll see we'll see what people say.
[57:46] Um, okay. Let's quickly run through the
[57:48] other ones that you've mentioned. So, we
[57:50] got up to 47. What's the next important
[57:52] year after 47?
[57:54] >> 56, Venus and the nodes.
[57:57] It's the third
[57:58] >> Yeah. Venus
[58:00] you get a Venus return cuz it's a
[58:02] multiple of eight, but you also get a
[58:04] nodal return, the third nodal return.
[58:07] Um, it's a huge birthday in history. Um,
[58:10] it's it's a birthday where um
[58:14] people finally become the version of
[58:15] themselves that they've always tried to
[58:17] become. If you look back in history,
[58:19] you'll see
[58:20] um both Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson
[58:23] became president at 56.
[58:25] Um, well, Nixon turned 56 like a couple
[58:27] of days before his inauguration.
[58:30] Um uh
[58:31] George Washington also became president
[58:33] at 56. Um, both both Lincoln and Hitler,
[58:37] not to compare them, but both Lincoln
[58:38] and Hitler died at 56, shortly after
[58:41] turning 56.
[58:42] Um, there's there's there's this whole
[58:44] thing to the birthday with the Venus
[58:46] return, the nodal return um of of a kind
[58:49] of self-actualization
[58:52] of of becoming the person you've been
[58:54] trying to become.
[58:57] >> I like that. So, it's a repetition of
[58:59] Venus in that year, like a Venus
[59:00] retrograde, but also the eclipses would
[59:03] be repeating in the same signs in that
[59:05] year essentially.
[59:07] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[59:09] Um, and and uh yeah, with with the nodal
[59:11] return and the solar return.
[59:14] >> Okay, so let me animate a chart.
[59:17] All right, animated chart. So, this is
[59:19] right now. Venus is retrograde. We're in
[59:21] the middle of the cycle in October of
[59:23] 2026 and the nodes have just changed
[59:26] recently. So, might not be a great
[59:27] example, but the south nodes in late
[59:30] Leo at 27° and the north nodes in late
[59:33] Aquarius. And if I jump forward 56 years
[59:36] to 2082,
[59:38] we see that um Venus is just coming off
[59:41] of the retrograde in Scorpio and Libra
[59:44] and
[59:45] uh the nodes are again in the same
[59:47] positions with the south node at 24 Leo
[59:50] and the north node at 24 Aquarius. So,
[59:52] that's
[59:53] pretty solid as long as you take into
[59:56] account the the drift of Venus at this
[59:58] point like 56 years into the life.
[1:00:01] >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's more drastic if
[1:00:03] someone's born during the Venus
[1:00:04] retrograde, less so if they're not. Um
[1:00:07] but you'll you'll see in the solar
[1:00:09] return. Yeah, the node the the at 56 you
[1:00:12] get this nodal return and a Venus
[1:00:14] return. And it I see it time and again
[1:00:16] in in people's lives. It's almost it's
[1:00:19] kind of like one theory I have is that
[1:00:22] it might be a kind of like so um Saturn
[1:00:24] return for nocturnal charts, you know,
[1:00:27] like the second Saturn return is at 59
[1:00:29] for the diurnal charts. Tends to be you
[1:00:31] know, really strong for them if
[1:00:33] everything's in in good you know, good
[1:00:34] measure.
[1:00:35] Uh but nocturnal charts 56, you know,
[1:00:38] because it's Venus and the nodes.
[1:00:40] Um there is something that that kind of
[1:00:42] I mean, I I think it's a magical year
[1:00:44] for a lot of people, but um
[1:00:46] you know, that's sort of one of the the
[1:00:47] thoughts I've had about it because it
[1:00:49] you know, it does involve Venus and and
[1:00:51] the moon.
[1:00:53] >> Yeah, I mean, just knowing that not only
[1:00:55] is Venus going to go retrograde in the
[1:00:57] same sign like in Scorpio, but also and
[1:00:59] so you already have that really tight
[1:01:02] series of echoes of energy, but also
[1:01:04] that the eclipses are going to be taking
[1:01:06] place in the exact same signs. That's
[1:01:09] really That would be really strong and
[1:01:10] powerful as a as a predictive technique,
[1:01:12] especially if you had were able to
[1:01:14] develop a strong sense of what that
[1:01:16] eclipse mysteries or cycle was about.
[1:01:20] >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:01:22] >> What was the significance
[1:01:23] >> fascinated with 56.
[1:01:26] >> Yeah, that sounds like it could be like
[1:01:28] worth exploring as a whole episode under
[1:01:30] itself from the examples some of the
[1:01:32] examples you mentioned.
[1:01:34] >> Yeah.
[1:01:35] >> It's like the older version of the 27
[1:01:39] club with What were the two that you
[1:01:41] mentioned like Lincoln and and Hitler?
[1:01:43] >> Lincoln Lincoln and Hitler, yeah. Yeah.
[1:01:45] He He was 56. He turned 56 like 10 days
[1:01:47] before
[1:01:49] um you know, he met his end. Let's just
[1:01:51] put it at that and um make of it what
[1:01:53] you will. And Lincoln died but um
[1:01:56] less than 2 months, right? Like 5 6
[1:01:59] weeks or whatever after he turned 56.
[1:02:03] >> Right. Okay. Yeah, but it's like
[1:02:06] Lincoln successfully wins the war and
[1:02:08] then like
[1:02:09] >> Sure.
[1:02:10] >> you know, ends slavery where as Hitler
[1:02:13] Yeah, his his his country burned and is
[1:02:16] destroyed around him and he's completely
[1:02:18] ruined his entire
[1:02:20] country immeasurably at that point. Um
[1:02:24] but but it is interesting and it's like
[1:02:25] both of them die,
[1:02:27] you know, at that time in in weird ways.
[1:02:31] >> Yeah, I mean everyone turns 56 or you
[1:02:33] know, not everyone, but if you do turn
[1:02:35] 56 like good people turn 56, bad people
[1:02:37] turn 56, failures turn 56, successful
[1:02:41] people turn 56, but you can see how for
[1:02:44] both of them there is this kind of
[1:02:47] there is this moment, I suppose, you
[1:02:48] know, like like for those two particular
[1:02:50] people. Yeah, one guy one guy wins and
[1:02:53] is murdered, the other guy loses and and
[1:02:55] takes his own life.
[1:02:56] Um um and not to mention, you know, all
[1:02:59] the other
[1:03:01] you know,
[1:03:02] hum- humanitarian questions involved,
[1:03:05] but um yeah, there's there's just
[1:03:07] there's something about 56 that that you
[1:03:09] can see it in all of them.
[1:03:11] Um
[1:03:11] >> Yeah, I mean the culmination of both of
[1:03:13] their destinies like happened basically
[1:03:15] in that year around that time, you could
[1:03:17] say for both of them.
[1:03:19] >> Yeah, and and like Nixon and Johnson
[1:03:21] both becoming president at 56. These are
[1:03:23] both guys who wanted to be president
[1:03:25] since they were little boys and thought
[1:03:27] of nothing else. And like everything
[1:03:29] they did was to get to that moment.
[1:03:31] >> Mhm.
[1:03:32] >> And you know, they both arrive and then
[1:03:34] of course they're both going to like
[1:03:35] have it blow up in their faces.
[1:03:38] Uh yeah, you know, they're an
[1:03:39] interesting pair in that way.
[1:03:42] >> Right.
[1:03:43] >> And then George W
[1:03:44] George Washington became president at
[1:03:46] 56. It wasn't something he could have
[1:03:48] aspired to, but he is someone else who
[1:03:50] who, you know, really like had to fight
[1:03:53] and struggle to reach a level of
[1:03:55] respectability that he thought he needed
[1:03:58] to have.
[1:03:59] And I think, you know, becoming
[1:04:01] president if nothing else, you know,
[1:04:03] famously it wasn't like this big
[1:04:04] rewarding thing for him or anything. And
[1:04:06] and he kind of wanted to be doing other
[1:04:08] things, but there is this sense of like
[1:04:10] he's he's reached this level of
[1:04:11] respectability.
[1:04:13] Um so there's yeah, there's something in
[1:04:15] it there for him as well. And and you
[1:04:17] know, I could go on and on, but 56 is a
[1:04:19] really really interesting one.
[1:04:22] >> Okay. Yeah, that is cool. I'd like to
[1:04:25] study cuz that's the great That's really
[1:04:26] the intersection of the two major like
[1:04:28] research projects I've been doing and
[1:04:30] you and I've been doing over the past
[1:04:31] few years, which is like eclipses and
[1:04:33] Venus retrograde. So
[1:04:35] that and seeing if there are any other
[1:04:37] intersections of like half intersections
[1:04:40] or other things prior to that might be
[1:04:42] interesting to see the
[1:04:44] build up or the intermediate point, you
[1:04:46] know, prior to those or or or what have
[1:04:48] you.
[1:04:50] >> Yeah, absolutely.
[1:04:52] >> Let's see. 56 There's something else I
[1:04:54] was going to mention about that, but
[1:04:56] maybe that's good.
[1:04:57] >> And then there's just 59.
[1:05:00] >> What's 59 again?
[1:05:02] >> 59 is Saturn, the second Saturn return,
[1:05:05] it's a Jupiter return, and it's a
[1:05:06] Mercury return.
[1:05:08] Tends to be in in diurnal charts in
[1:05:10] particular, it's it's it can be pretty
[1:05:12] good.
[1:05:13] >> Got it. Okay.
[1:05:15] Yeah, and that one is um What was the
[1:05:18] Yeah, the go Well, the Babylonian goal
[1:05:20] year period is 59 for the ancient
[1:05:22] Mesopotamians. So, it's like they were
[1:05:24] really focused on that one for
[1:05:27] Saturn, but then that was one of the
[1:05:29] things that's always raised like
[1:05:30] questions that you and I and Patrick
[1:05:32] have talked about is how some of these
[1:05:34] really overlap with other things. So,
[1:05:36] that there may have been
[1:05:38] either additional reasons why they were
[1:05:40] focused on certain years, or there may
[1:05:42] have been hidden reasons perhaps even
[1:05:44] that they didn't even know about that
[1:05:46] they were focused on certain years.
[1:05:49] So, 59, okay. So, 59 is Saturn, but also
[1:05:51] Mercury and Jupiter at the same time?
[1:05:55] >> Yeah, Mercury and Jupiter. Mercury it
[1:05:56] makes a pretty close return. Jupiter
[1:05:58] makes a return cuz it's 12 years after
[1:06:00] 47, but 12 years before 71.
[1:06:04] >> So, that's interesting because it's like
[1:06:05] if um
[1:06:07] somebody had a special combination
[1:06:08] between those three planets in their
[1:06:10] chart, then that you would know that 59
[1:06:13] is going to be a particularly powerful
[1:06:14] year. Like if they had a
[1:06:17] Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn conjunction in
[1:06:19] their chart, then you know at 59 that's
[1:06:22] going to get like fully activated by a
[1:06:23] kind of crazy recurrence transit.
[1:06:26] >> Exactly.
[1:06:28] >> Okay, this is good. So, this is yeah.
[1:06:30] >> Yeah, I've seen it happen. I've seen it
[1:06:31] happen with clients, absolutely.
[1:06:34] >> Okay, so this is starting to get us into
[1:06:35] a whole other area then of like it's
[1:06:38] like one planet recurrences, two planet
[1:06:39] recurrences, and then three planet
[1:06:41] recurrences.
[1:06:43] >> Yeah, yeah.
[1:06:45] Yeah, to cap it all off, to cap it all
[1:06:47] off.
[1:06:48] >> Well, and I found those ones that were
[1:06:49] showing the like thousand-year ones
[1:06:51] earlier this year when you and I did the
[1:06:52] Mars, the triple conjunction episode
[1:06:55] where we we were getting into some of
[1:06:56] those triple conjunction recurrences,
[1:06:58] but then I found that like
[1:07:00] thousand-year Babylonian goal year
[1:07:02] period where it was showing a recurrence
[1:07:04] of like four planets that was like
[1:07:05] incredibly precise.
[1:07:07] >> Yeah, that's wild. That's wild.
[1:07:10] >> All right, um what's next after 59
[1:07:13] years?
[1:07:15] Um is there anything?
[1:07:17] I mean, I know there's 60 years.
[1:07:19] >> Yeah, there's there's Mercury and Mars
[1:07:21] at 79.
[1:07:22] >> Okay, so Mars Yeah, cuz 79 is the
[1:07:26] closest repetition of Mars where it will
[1:07:29] go retrograde almost to the degree every
[1:07:32] 79 years, but you're saying that's also
[1:07:35] a completion of a Mercury cycle?
[1:07:37] >> Exactly. Yeah, the cycles of Mercury and
[1:07:39] Mars come together at at uh
[1:07:42] um 79.
[1:07:44] >> Okay, so that'd be particularly
[1:07:45] important if somebody had a Mercury-Mars
[1:07:47] conjunction, for example.
[1:07:49] >> And Saturn and Venus, I remember now,
[1:07:51] it's not 96, it's 88. Uh my apologies, I
[1:07:54] blanked on it. Venus and Saturn are 88,
[1:07:56] but um Mars and Mercury are 79.
[1:08:00] >> Mars and Mercury, okay. Yeah, so if
[1:08:01] somebody had like any Mars-Mercury
[1:08:03] aspect, 79 would be really important for
[1:08:07] better or in some instances for worse.
[1:08:10] And Venus You said Venus and Saturn is
[1:08:13] what, 88?
[1:08:14] >> 88, yeah.
[1:08:16] >> Okay, so that'd be good for like a
[1:08:17] Venus-Saturn aspects, although
[1:08:20] presumably like not that great once
[1:08:22] you're getting to that like stage in
[1:08:24] life.
[1:08:25] >> Presumably.
[1:08:27] >> Yeah, well
[1:08:27] >> Some people live it up.
[1:08:28] >> until Yeah, our our longevity Most of
[1:08:32] this is going to be blown out of the
[1:08:33] water as like human life starts getting
[1:08:35] extended past normal stuff will be an
[1:08:38] interesting new avenue of astrology at
[1:08:40] some point before too long.
[1:08:43] >> Yep, can't wait.
[1:08:45] >> Yeah, okay. Um and then
[1:08:48] Jupiter is like its goal year period is
[1:08:50] 71 and 83.
[1:08:52] Uh Mars we already mentioned is 47 and
[1:08:55] 79. Are there any other periods to
[1:08:58] mention or is that Is that pretty much
[1:09:00] it?
[1:09:02] >> That's pretty much it um for for these
[1:09:04] combos, you know. Uh the next thing
[1:09:06] Yeah, we'll do an episode later on uh
[1:09:08] annual perfections and using these and
[1:09:10] and it gets really interesting.
[1:09:13] >> Okay, cool.
[1:09:14] All right. Um so, are there any other
[1:09:16] things like that that are worth
[1:09:17] mentioning in terms of then now that
[1:09:19] we've identified some of the overlapping
[1:09:21] ones? Obviously, we can use this in
[1:09:23] mundane astrology and a lot of what you
[1:09:25] and I have been doing and a lot of
[1:09:26] research I've been doing over the past
[1:09:28] few years is like going back and if a if
[1:09:30] a
[1:09:31] planetary alignment is coming up that
[1:09:33] we're curious about, going back and
[1:09:35] seeing what happened the last time that
[1:09:37] alignment happened over the past
[1:09:39] century, the last times, and especially
[1:09:42] some of these repeating years uh
[1:09:45] when the alignment was exactly the same
[1:09:47] or when it was aligning similarly with
[1:09:50] other planets, and certainly the last
[1:09:52] Venus retrograde that we had when Venus
[1:09:55] is retrograde in Aries and Mars is
[1:09:57] retrograde in Leo and Cancer, we saw
[1:10:00] that those 32-year increments were the
[1:10:02] ones that had some of the most stunning
[1:10:04] repetitions. So, I do feel like part of
[1:10:06] the trick to this is that when there's
[1:10:09] one planetary repetition, you'll see
[1:10:11] echoes and similar themes coming up, but
[1:10:13] when you see two planets repeating,
[1:10:16] you'll see even stronger echoes and
[1:10:18] repetitions of things coming up, and
[1:10:20] then it may even build from there if
[1:10:22] we're talking like three or four planet
[1:10:23] combinations.
[1:10:25] >> Yeah.
[1:10:26] Yeah.
[1:10:28] >> Yeah. So, that is
[1:10:30] then yeah, like like like like we're
[1:10:32] saying, one of the oldest predictive
[1:10:33] tools, presumably.
[1:10:36] >> Absolutely. Absolutely.
[1:10:39] And I yeah, I use it all the time in in
[1:10:41] consultations. I I I think it's it's uh
[1:10:46] immeasurably
[1:10:48] uh
[1:10:49] you know, more useful to have these
[1:10:50] under your, you know, under your hat um
[1:10:54] when you're in a consultation situation.
[1:10:56] It really feels like you're always
[1:10:57] walking on a floor. You're never just
[1:11:00] sort of floating, wondering like, you
[1:11:02] know,
[1:11:03] what what's the what's the big picture
[1:11:04] that you're you're missing out on. Um I
[1:11:07] hope that's a useful description, but
[1:11:09] that's how it really feels for me.
[1:11:11] Um the difference between knowing these
[1:11:13] cycles as a as a consulting astrologer
[1:11:16] um was the difference between operating
[1:11:19] with confidence and operating in a you
[1:11:22] know,
[1:11:23] waiting for some kind of magic to happen
[1:11:25] or something.
[1:11:26] Really yeah, um it really helped me
[1:11:29] understand how astrology reflects
[1:11:32] different people's lives in different
[1:11:33] ways.
[1:11:35] >> Yeah, I've been going back and looking
[1:11:36] at old charts of ones that I knew that
[1:11:38] were close to me or important and just
[1:11:40] like seeing so many new things now that
[1:11:42] I'm paying attention to these cycles and
[1:11:44] I know, once you memorize the years of
[1:11:46] Venus's repetitions, it just unlocks
[1:11:49] like a huge
[1:11:50] secondary layer of information that you
[1:11:55] wouldn't see otherwise, especially if
[1:11:57] you're only like narrow narrowly paying
[1:11:59] attention to the retrograde period and
[1:12:02] if you're not paying attention to like
[1:12:03] that period around it, that like three
[1:12:05] or four months around the retrograde
[1:12:07] that's still so potent. Um, and it's
[1:12:09] really recontextualizing a lot of old
[1:12:11] charts now that I have the periods
[1:12:14] memorized and that's got to be one of
[1:12:15] the first steps is like starting to get
[1:12:16] familiar with the cycles, like using an
[1:12:19] animated chart feature, an ephemeris or
[1:12:21] something and just start to internalize
[1:12:24] those cycles and how often they repeat
[1:12:26] as as much as possible.
[1:12:29] >> Yeah. Yeah, and it's definitely really,
[1:12:31] really worth learning the Mars cycles,
[1:12:33] even though they're they're they're not
[1:12:34] as easy as the Venus years. Um, quite
[1:12:38] the contrary, um, having Mars under your
[1:12:40] belt is the perfect counterpoint to
[1:12:42] Venus.
[1:12:43] Uh, for in in all the ways that it's
[1:12:46] exactly the opposite in its in its
[1:12:48] design and reliability and what have
[1:12:52] you, like the difference between
[1:12:53] symmetry and asymmetry is really the
[1:12:56] difference between the Venus and Mars
[1:12:57] cycles. Um,
[1:12:59] really, you know, it's it's a part of
[1:13:01] what they are astrologically and and
[1:13:03] mythologically, but even just as
[1:13:06] orbiting bodies, they're so different
[1:13:08] from each other in precisely that
[1:13:10] Venus-Mars way that um, you would
[1:13:12] expect.
[1:13:14] >> Right, which is funny cuz then it's like
[1:13:16] this contrast between harmony and
[1:13:19] like dissonance, basically, and you get
[1:13:21] that reflected in their cycles where
[1:13:24] where Venus has this very nice, neat
[1:13:26] recurring cycle that's like every years
[1:13:29] with very little drift, but then Mars
[1:13:32] has this more like jagged one that that
[1:13:34] jumps in this like 15 and 17-year cycle.
[1:13:38] >> Yeah. Yeah, and also like you know,
[1:13:40] every every 250 years Venus will have
[1:13:44] been retrograde in all 12 signs equally.
[1:13:47] Over long periods of time, Venus
[1:13:49] retrogrades are distributed evenly,
[1:13:52] fairly amongst the 12 signs of the the
[1:13:55] zodiac, even if not in one human
[1:13:57] lifetime.
[1:13:58] But with Mars, it it that's simply not
[1:14:01] true. Mars is always sp- you know, more
[1:14:04] frequently in Leo and least frequently
[1:14:07] in a in Aquarius and presumably as long
[1:14:09] as it its orbit has been that way
[1:14:11] forever however many millions of years
[1:14:13] or what- whatever the answer is. Um that
[1:14:16] that would be the case. That is its
[1:14:18] rhythm. So, it's very different. It
[1:14:20] never It never sort of reaches some
[1:14:22] other stage where then oh, you know,
[1:14:24] Mars retrogrades in Aquarius are
[1:14:25] happening a lot and not in Leo. It never
[1:14:28] does that the way Venus does.
[1:14:30] Um so, you know, that that's something
[1:14:33] interesting in and of itself. Um when
[1:14:36] when when you think about yeah, you
[1:14:38] know, bigger picture astrology as well.
[1:14:40] >> Um what was the rule then? It goes
[1:14:42] retrograde in Leo more frequently in
[1:14:44] Aquarius much less frequently.
[1:14:47] >> Yeah, and therefore it spends more time
[1:14:48] in Leo and the least amount of time in
[1:14:50] Aquarius, you know, mathematically. Um
[1:14:53] but that's that's perpetual for for all
[1:14:56] time, presumably.
[1:14:58] >> Right. So, it's like some people only
[1:15:01] experience like one Aquarius retrograde
[1:15:04] in a
[1:15:05] good chunk of their life.
[1:15:06] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:15:08] Yeah.
[1:15:09] >> Like how often?
[1:15:10] >> 47 years. There was one in 2018 and
[1:15:13] before that it was in 1971.
[1:15:16] >> Okay, as opposed to the like every 15 to
[1:15:19] 17 years that we're experiencing the
[1:15:20] Mars retrograde in Leo.
[1:15:22] >> Exactly. Yeah.
[1:15:24] >> Wow, okay. That's crazy.
[1:15:25] >> Yeah. Yeah, dido like Mars went
[1:15:28] retrograde in Aquarius in 2018. Before
[1:15:30] that it was 1971.
[1:15:32] Mars went retrograde in Pisces in 2003.
[1:15:35] Before that, it was 1956.
[1:15:38] You know, it's a really long gap. And
[1:15:40] so, sometimes like when I see someone
[1:15:42] with a Pisces rising, oh, I think, oh,
[1:15:44] the summer of 2003 when that Mars
[1:15:46] retrograde happened. Or ditto for
[1:15:47] Aquarius risings, I think of the the
[1:15:50] Mars retrograde in Aquarius that that,
[1:15:52] you know, might have been your your
[1:15:53] Aquarius rising. That's the only year in
[1:15:54] your life that Mars went retrograde in
[1:15:56] your rising sign.
[1:15:59] >> Yeah, well, and it's like that also
[1:16:01] serves the function of like why modern
[1:16:04] astrology like 20th century astrologers
[1:16:06] got often get hung up on outer planets
[1:16:08] is cuz sometimes their transits are so
[1:16:10] rare, we only get like one of these
[1:16:13] transits in a lifetime of like a certain
[1:16:15] thing.
[1:16:16] Like let's say Uranus like traveling
[1:16:18] through a certain house or making a
[1:16:19] conjunction, but then
[1:16:22] what you some of this you're talking
[1:16:23] about the Mars, you're you're talking
[1:16:25] about very rare transits that will only
[1:16:27] happen like once or twice in a lifetime.
[1:16:30] >> Yeah. Yeah. And they they it's it's
[1:16:33] always a hit like with whoever I'm
[1:16:36] speaking to, you know, whatever the
[1:16:37] rising sign is, I know, especially if
[1:16:39] it's one of the more rare ones, which is
[1:16:42] most of them, you know, um
[1:16:46] really Cancer, Leo, and Virgo are the
[1:16:47] ones that are super regular, but even
[1:16:49] once you get to Gemini and Libra,
[1:16:51] they're once every 32 years, generally.
[1:16:54] Um with with a few anomalies here and
[1:16:57] there. So, um yeah, you know, depending
[1:17:00] on the rising sign or, you know, if
[1:17:02] there's a certain emphasis of planets in
[1:17:04] a given sign, if you know the the Mars
[1:17:06] cycle, you can really pinpoint some
[1:17:08] really meaningful things for that
[1:17:09] person. Um it it's it's a repeated
[1:17:13] success in in in all consultations.
[1:17:17] >> Nice. All right, I love that. Well, then
[1:17:19] I guess that's step one is just starting
[1:17:20] to memorize some of those cycles and
[1:17:23] like see how they work, and starting to
[1:17:25] see how some of those repetitions play
[1:17:27] out in your life, and then starting to
[1:17:29] yeah, research some of those, especially
[1:17:32] in the present. Like when stuff's
[1:17:34] happening in the present, like the Venus
[1:17:35] retrograde, it's such an amazing
[1:17:36] opportunity to study the phenomenon and
[1:17:39] then to connect it with previous
[1:17:41] repetitions. And I can't believe how
[1:17:43] much you can learn just from doing that.
[1:17:46] Um
[1:17:48] that it really pays to like take in as
[1:17:51] much as you can like during those times
[1:17:53] and then observe as much as you can and
[1:17:55] sort of like internalize it.
[1:17:57] >> Yeah, absolutely.
[1:18:00] It really the it tells it tells a story,
[1:18:02] you know, it really does. And um and
[1:18:06] yeah, understanding these these return
[1:18:08] combinations
[1:18:10] helps you understand something about the
[1:18:12] relationship between any of these two or
[1:18:14] sometimes three given planets.
[1:18:17] You know, Mars and Jupiter, no matter
[1:18:18] what you have them in the chart, it's
[1:18:20] always about 47.
[1:18:22] You know,
[1:18:23] uh uh there's some kind of 47 is some
[1:18:25] kind of fulcrum around which that
[1:18:27] relationship revolves.
[1:18:30] >> Right, yeah. Whether
[1:18:33] whether it's like a harmonious
[1:18:34] relationship or like a disharmonious
[1:18:36] one, which is really interesting then
[1:18:39] that you'll have like
[1:18:41] a tension between the the that war and
[1:18:43] peace
[1:18:45] uh tendency in some charts if it's like
[1:18:47] an opposition or something, whereas you
[1:18:49] might have instead the like expansive
[1:18:52] taking bold action that pays off if it's
[1:18:55] like a Mars-Jupiter trine and then you
[1:18:57] get a recurrence of that.
[1:18:59] >> Exactly, yeah.
[1:19:00] >> Yeah, that starts getting into some
[1:19:02] really deep powerful like predictive
[1:19:04] stuff right there. So, that's very
[1:19:05] exciting and yeah, we'll do a follow-up
[1:19:08] episode then to do the
[1:19:11] annual perfections layer cuz I know
[1:19:12] that's how you even further specify and
[1:19:15] identify some of the most potent years.
[1:19:18] >> Yeah, yeah, it's it works like a charm.
[1:19:21] >> Cool. All right. Um you uh if people
[1:19:24] want to learn more about this, you're
[1:19:25] doing consultations. You would and you
[1:19:27] apply it to people's charts in their
[1:19:28] personal lives like every day all the
[1:19:30] time, right?
[1:19:31] >> Constantly, 6 days a week, sometimes 7.
[1:19:34] Yeah.
[1:19:35] >> All right, the
[1:19:36] >> It's what I do. It's what I do it it
[1:19:37] works beautifully.
[1:19:39] >> Yeah, the astrologer that never sleeps.
[1:19:41] Uh So you're at Nick Dagan Best
[1:19:44] astrologer.com or just Nick Dagan Best.
[1:19:46] That
[1:19:46] >> It's Nick Dagan Best astrologer.com.
[1:19:49] Correct. Yeah.
[1:19:50] >> Cool. Okay, people can go there for
[1:19:51] consultations. You've also been doing a
[1:19:53] lot of live streams recently on
[1:19:55] different platforms, right?
[1:19:57] >> Yeah, I'm live streaming and
[1:20:00] you know, doing little
[1:20:02] mini tutorials, sometimes little mini
[1:20:03] readings and stuff like that.
[1:20:06] Having fun having fun
[1:20:08] you know, exploring the the new software
[1:20:10] and and showing it off and and so yeah,
[1:20:14] subscribe to my any of my
[1:20:16] I'm on YouTube, Twitch, TikTok,
[1:20:21] Instagram. So yeah, find me find me
[1:20:24] where you like to watch that kind of
[1:20:26] thing.
[1:20:27] >> Cool. Yeah, people should check it out.
[1:20:28] I'll put a link to your website in the
[1:20:30] description below this video or on the
[1:20:32] podcast website for this episode. But
[1:20:34] otherwise thanks a lot for joining me
[1:20:35] today and helping me to explore this and
[1:20:37] I look forward to doing that follow-up.
[1:20:39] >> Thank you, Chris.
[1:20:41] >> Cool. All right. Thanks everyone for
[1:20:43] watching or listening to this episode of
[1:20:44] The Astrology Podcast and we'll see you
[1:20:46] again next time.
[1:20:49] If you're a fan of the podcast and you
[1:20:50] want to get access to bonus content,
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[1:21:12] Special thanks to the patrons on our
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[1:21:29] Souldier, Berlin West, and Nikki
[1:21:31] Crawford.
[1:21:32] If you're really looking to take your
[1:21:33] studies of astrology to the next level,
[1:21:35] then consider signing up for my
[1:21:37] Hellenistic astrology course, which is
[1:21:39] an online course in ancient astrology
[1:21:41] where I take people from basic concepts
[1:21:43] up through intermediate and advanced
[1:21:45] techniques for reading birth charts.
[1:21:48] There's over 100 hours of video lectures
[1:21:50] plus live webinars and Q&A sessions each
[1:21:53] month and at the end of the course you
[1:21:54] get a certificate of completion saying
[1:21:56] that you studied with me. Find out more
[1:21:58] information at the astrologyschool.com.
[1:22:01] If you're looking to get an astrological
[1:22:03] consultation then check out the new
[1:22:04] consultations page on the podcast
[1:22:06] website where I have a list of
[1:22:07] astrologers I recommend for birth chart
[1:22:10] readings and other types of
[1:22:11] consultations. You can find that at the
[1:22:13] astrologypodcast.com/consultations.
[1:22:17] The astrology software we use and
[1:22:18] recommend here on the podcast is called
[1:22:20] Solar Fire for Windows and you can get a
[1:22:22] 15% discount on it by using the promo
[1:22:24] code AP15
[1:22:26] at the website alabe.com.
[1:22:29] For Mac users we recommend the program
[1:22:31] called Astro Gold for Mac OS and you can
[1:22:34] use the promo code astropodcast15
[1:22:37] to get a 15% discount at their website
[1:22:39] which is astrogold.io.
[1:22:43] >> [music]
[1:22:54] [music]