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Inspire

Why Failure Became a Superpower: Accountability and Faith

Rainn Wilson
Rainn Wilson
Oct 15, 2026
11 min read

From Soul Boom w/ Rainn Wilson

Watch · 8

Dhar Mann was thirty years old, broke, depressed, two weeks away from being evicted, and standing on what he counted as his third major collapse. He had once driven a Cadillac and owned a Lamborghini at twenty-one, and he had spent money as fast as it arrived. In a 56-minute conversation with Rainn Wilson on Soul Boom, Mann traces how that wreckage became a working philosophy: take radical accountability, treat failure as material rather than verdict, and keep going when the work has no visible reward yet. The talk moves from a single hard question about why every business kept failing, through the tension between chasing money and chasing a mission, into the first videos he almost didn't finish, and finally into faith, suffering, the fear of being "cringe," and online hate. What follows unpacks those ideas for readers who have not watched the video.

Read · 10 sections

What happens when you realize you are the common denominator?

Mann's turning point was not a single insight. It was a pattern he finally forced himself to look at. Business after business had collapsed, partnerships had soured, and each time he had a ready explanation. The economy was bad. The timing was off. He ran out of money. The partner was the problem. Each story was different, and that difference was the trap.

"I am the common denominator. If I said, 'Oh, it was a bad economy, it was bad timing, I ran out of money, it was a bad partnership,' it was always a different reason, but there was one common denominator, and that was me."
— Dhar Mann, Soul Boom with Rainn Wilson (0:00)

His logic is compact and worth sitting with. If the problem is always external, nothing in your own behavior needs to change, which means nothing you do can fix it. Mann put it this way: if he did not see himself as the problem, he would never see himself as the solution. Radical accountability, in his telling, is not self-punishment or a bout of guilt. It is a diagnostic. You look for the one variable present in every failure, and you accept that it is the one you can actually control.

This is harder than it sounds, and Mann does not pretend otherwise. Blame is comfortable because it protects the ego. Ownership is uncomfortable because it leaves you with a task instead of an alibi. The move he describes is a shift from explaining failure to acting on it.

How do the failures of famous people change your own story?

While he was at his lowest, Mann started reading biographies of successful people. What struck him was how consistent the pattern was. "Every single person I read about, had encountered massive failure on their way to success." He named three examples: Michael Jordan, cut from his high school basketball team before becoming one of the greatest athletes of all time; J.K. Rowling, who could not get Harry Potter published and tried dozens of times; and Walt Disney, who went bankrupt several times on his way to building Disneyland.

"Maybe failure was not my story. It was not my whole book. Maybe it was just a chapter, or in my case several chapters of my book. And that this was all somehow preparing me for something greater."
— Dhar Mann, Soul Boom with Rainn Wilson (5:35)

The reframing here is simple but load-bearing. A failure is only a verdict if you assume the story ends there. Mann's point is that the people who became household names were not exempt from defeat. Defeat was part of the route. Once he saw that, the question changed from "Why is my life falling apart?" to "What is this chapter preparing me for?"

Can failure really be a superpower?

Mann then asked himself a question that sounds like a joke but works as a method: what is the one thing I am better at than anyone else? His answer was failure. He had failed more by thirty than most people he knew, and he reasoned that expertise in a subject is not a sign of having never struggled. It is a sign of having struggled enough to understand it.

That logic points his work outward. There are many people, he argued, who feel their lives are not where they hoped and who had big goals that never quite landed. He could speak to them directly, tell them they are not alone, and also explain what he got wrong, so that they might avoid some of the same mistakes. The superpower is not the failure itself. It is the translation of failure into something another person can use.

Why does mission matter more than money when you are failing?

The conversation draws a sharp line between money-focused and mission-based motivation, and it is one of the most practical ideas in the talk. A money-focused person, as the discussion frames it, measures each attempt by revenue. If you try something ninety-nine times and it makes no money, the odds are you quit well before the hundredth try. You are likely to stop around five.

"If you're mission-based, it doesn't matter if you failed five times. It doesn't matter if you failed 10 times or 99 times or 1,000 times. That is your mission. And as any entrepreneur knows, success is not like this. It's not just a straight line up."
— Soul Boom with Rainn Wilson (1:57)

The argument is not that money is irrelevant. It is that money makes a poor scoreboard for the early and middle stages of anything difficult. When success is a straight line up, you can afford to watch the numbers. When it is not, a mission gives you a reason to keep moving through the stretch where the numbers say you should stop. The talk treats mission as a form of endurance, and it notes that only a mission-based person tends to get far enough for success to show up.

How do you start creating when you never wanted to be on camera?

Mann's first video was about not giving up on your dreams, which he now sees as fitting. "I wanted to give up so many times while I was making that video," he said. He had never imagined himself on camera. Even a three-minute piece with scripted lines took, by his account, hundreds of takes. He was not a natural performer; he was someone who had decided to keep doing the work until it became workable.

There is a craft lesson hidden in that story. Mann's early videos were not polished because he was not yet good at the medium. They were honest because he was talking from inside his own failures. The awkwardness was not a flaw to hide. It was the reason the content felt true to viewers who were struggling in similar ways.

The conversation then moves to the video that changed his trajectory. It went on to reach 250 million views, and the episode's own description calls it the unlikely video that changed his life forever. The specifics of that turn are worth watching in the video itself, around the 15:27 mark, rather than summarizing secondhand.

Why would God allow suffering?

The emotional center of the talk is the move from failure to faith. Mann describes finding God through his failures rather than in spite of them, and he returns repeatedly to the idea that hardship is formative. The line that anchors the discussion is a reframing of prayer: before God gives you the life you have been praying for, he shapes you into the person who can actually carry it.

"Before God gives you the life that you've been praying for, he shapes you into the person that can actually carry it."
— Dhar Mann, Soul Boom with Rainn Wilson (0:00)

This is a difficult idea and the conversation treats it as one. The suggestion is not that suffering is pleasant or that it should be sought out. It is that the years of closed doors, failed projects, and public humiliation changed what Mann was capable of holding. He does not present this as a tidy resolution. He presents it as a pattern he came to recognize only in hindsight, and the talk's question of why God allows suffering is answered in personal rather than doctrinal terms.

The conversation also draws a distinction that matters for anyone thinking about faith and hardship. Faith, as the discussion frames it, is less about having answers than about changing how you read the difficulty in front of you. The chapter titled "Faith, God and Religion" at 30:04 extends this into broader territory, including how people relate to religious traditions.

What does the fear of being "cringe" cost creators?

Later in the episode, the conversation turns to a generation that seems more afraid of looking foolish than ever. Wilson and Mann talk about the particular pressure of online life, where a moment of sincerity or silliness can be recorded, clipped, and judged by strangers. The fear is not just about embarrassment. It is about the way it stops people from trying anything that might be laughed at.

"Teenagers, and folks in their 20s, being silly and dancing." — referenced in the discussion of the cringe problem, Soul Boom with Rainn Wilson (32:43)

The talk's argument is that success often requires exactly the thing people are most afraid of. If you want to build anything new, someone will find it awkward, and you will have to tolerate that. Mann's own career depended on being willing to appear on camera before he felt ready. The cost of avoiding cringe is that you never produce the work that could have connected with someone.

How should you handle online hate and public criticism?

The conversation addresses online hate directly, along with the public criticism Mann has faced and the controversies he addresses later in the episode. The material available for this piece is thinner here than on failure and faith, so it would be a mistake to reconstruct those exchanges from memory. The honest summary is that the discussion treats public criticism as part of the same landscape of fear and visibility that shapes the cringe problem: the more you put yourself out there, the more exposed you become, and the more you must decide what you are actually responsible for. Readers who want Mann's specific account should watch the segments on online hate (38:34) and controversies (43:23) directly.

What does humility look like after a public fall?

The final section of the conversation turns to mental health and humility. A recurring image in this part of the talk is the pruned tree. Growth, in this metaphor, is not steady and comfortable. It is shaped by cutting, and the parts that get cut back are often the ones that produce the most. The image fits Mann's broader arc: the failures that felt like amputations turned out to be the structure of the life he now describes.

Humility, in this framing, is not self-deprecation. It is the willingness to keep the accountability he began with at thirty, applied to a much larger platform and a much larger audience. With more than 170 million followers, the stakes of being wrong are public, and the discipline of looking at your own role in things does not get easier with success.

Where to go from here

The most useful way to read this conversation is to test its ideas against your own situation rather than adopting them whole. Three questions come directly out of the talk. First, when something fails, what is the common denominator that keeps appearing, and is it the one thing you can change? Second, are you measuring your work by money or by mission, and what happens to your persistence if the money does not come on schedule? Third, what are you avoiding because you fear looking foolish, and what might that work have built if you had been willing to be awkward for a while?

For the full context, including the 250-million-view video, the discussion of God and suffering, and the segments on hate and controversy, watch the complete episode of Soul Boom with Rainn Wilson. The chapter markers in the description make it easy to jump to the sections that matter most to you.

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Transcript

[0:00] I've had businesses collapse, I've had

[0:02] partnerships fail, I've had all kinds of

[0:04] problems happen to me.

[0:06] I am the common denominator. If I said,

[0:09] "Oh, it was a bad economy, it was bad

[0:10] timing, I ran out of money, it was a bad

[0:12] partnership, I was whatever it was." It

[0:14] was always a different reason,

[0:16] but there was one common denominator,

[0:18] and that was me.

[0:20] So, I realized if I didn't see myself as

[0:23] the problem, that I would [music] never

[0:25] see myself as the solution. So, from

[0:28] that point forward, I decided that I was

[0:30] going to take radical accountability for

[0:32] everything that happened in my life.

[0:33] Before God gives you the life that

[0:35] you've been praying for, he shapes you

[0:37] into the person that can actually carry

[0:40] it. Michael Jordan [music] got cut from

[0:42] his high school basketball team. J.K.

[0:43] Rowling couldn't get Harry Potter

[0:45] published, and she tried dozens of

[0:47] times. Walt Disney went bankrupt

[0:49] >> [music]

[0:49] >> so many times on his way to start

[0:51] Disneyland. I started to think about it,

[0:53] and I was like, "Well, what is

[0:56] my superpower?

[0:58] What is the one thing that I'm better at

[1:00] than anyone else that I can go and do?"

[1:03] And you know what that thing was?

[1:06] Failure.

[1:07] >> [laughter]

[1:11] [music]

[1:12] >> Hey there, it's me, Rainn Wilson, and I

[1:14] want to dig into the human experience. I

[1:16] want to have conversations about [music]

[1:17] a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep

[1:20] with our favorite thinkers, friends, and

[1:22] entertainers about life, meaning, and

[1:25] idiocy.

[1:26] Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast.

[1:34] A really quick thanks to our sponsors,

[1:36] ZipRecruiter, Nutrafol, Zocdoc, and

[1:38] Fetzer. Links and promo codes on screen

[1:41] and in the description. Enjoy the show.

[1:43] >> When you're money-focused,

[1:46] as soon as you don't make money, if you

[1:48] try something 99 times, you didn't make

[1:50] money, what are you going to do? You're

[1:52] not even going to get to 99. You're

[1:53] going to probably get to five. You're

[1:55] going to be like, "Man, I didn't make

[1:57] anything. I'm going to give up.

[1:59] Mhm.

[2:00] But if you're mission-based,

[2:03] it doesn't [clears throat]

[2:05] matter if you failed five times. It

[2:06] doesn't matter if you failed 10 times or

[2:07] 99 times or 1,000 times. That is your

[2:11] mission. And as any entrepreneur knows,

[2:14] success is not like this. It's not just

[2:16] a straight line up. It is you failed.

[2:19] You failed even worse. You failed so bad

[2:21] that you may not even ever get back up.

[2:24] You failed so much that everybody is

[2:26] judging you and thinks you're a fool.

[2:29] But you kept going. And you kept getting

[2:31] up, and you kept marching forward.

[2:33] That's what it takes, and only a

[2:34] mission-based person can get that far.

[2:38] So, that's the reason that anyone who is

[2:41] mission-based is far more likely to be

[2:43] successful, especially in the long term.

[2:45] And when you're entering any any

[2:47] birthday, but especially in your decade,

[2:50] you want to feel like your life is

[2:52] finally coming together. Like you

[2:54] probably remember when you entered your

[2:56] 20s. You probably remember when you

[2:57] entered your 30s or your 40s or your

[2:59] 50s. You're just in a new mindset. Even

[3:01] when I was 10 years old, I vividly

[3:03] remember what that birthday was like.

[3:05] And you And you feel like you want to

[3:06] have things figured out at 30.

[3:08] >> Kind of like, hey, okay, I made a lot of

[3:10] mistakes in my 20s. Now I'm in the

[3:12] saddle and ready to go.

[3:13] >> At 20, you want to feel like, oh, I'm

[3:14] starting to form like a social circle,

[3:17] and I'm starting to prepare for leaving

[3:19] college and maybe starting my career. At

[3:21] 30, you want to feel like your career is

[3:23] coming together. At 40, you want to feel

[3:24] like your family is coming together. At

[3:26] 50, you want to start to think about

[3:27] retirement or whatever it is.

[3:29] >> talk to me about 60, [ __ ] I

[3:31] just turned 60.

[3:33] >> Let's go.

[3:35] And still crushing it. Amazing. But

[3:37] yeah, Jeffrey Katzenberg always says

[3:40] that your dreams should be bigger than

[3:41] your memories. And so, that always

[3:44] inspires me to just like keep working

[3:46] hard and pushing forward.

[3:47] >> All right.

[3:48] >> So, I enter my 30s. I'm at the lowest

[3:50] point in my life.

[3:52] Definitely not where I imagined. I'm

[3:53] going through a bad breakup, I'm broke,

[3:56] I'm depressed, I'm having family

[3:58] problems, I'm having reputation

[4:00] problems, and I'm 2 weeks away from

[4:03] getting evicted from my apartment.

[4:06] So, all the dreams that I had in my

[4:08] life, I was someone that was going to go

[4:10] somewhere, that was going to be

[4:11] something.

[4:12] >> I was successful in high school.

[4:14] >> Exactly.

[4:15] I was now the guy

[4:18] >> I had a Cadillac I had a Lamborghini at

[4:20] 21 years old. Well, again, I was like

[4:22] making money but I was spending it fast.

[4:24] I was just living for the moment.

[4:26] And trying to do whatever it could that

[4:28] attracted people in my life, which I

[4:30] didn't realize was for the wrong reasons

[4:32] until later.

[4:33] But anyway, so I turned 30 years old

[4:36] and now this is the third major failure

[4:39] that I've had in my life. I've had

[4:41] businesses collapse, I've had

[4:43] partnerships fail, I've had all kinds of

[4:45] problems happen to me.

[4:47] And so I started thinking about it and I

[4:49] was like

[4:51] I am the common denominator.

[4:54] Every single one of those times, like in

[4:56] the beginning if I said, "Oh, it was a

[4:57] bad economy, it was bad timing, I ran

[4:59] out of money, it was a bad partnership,

[5:01] I was whatever it was." It was always a

[5:03] different reason.

[5:04] But there was one common denominator.

[5:07] And that was me.

[5:08] And so I realized that

[5:10] if I didn't see myself as the problem,

[5:13] that I would never see myself as the

[5:16] solution.

[5:17] So, from that point forward, I decided

[5:19] that I was going to take radical

[5:20] accountability for everything that

[5:22] happened in my life.

[5:23] So, I had started to get into the right

[5:25] mindset, but I didn't really have

[5:27] direction. What was I going to do?

[5:29] So, I started reading books.

[5:32] And again, I was feeling so embarrassed

[5:35] about where I was in my life. I was

[5:36] still feeling somewhat hopeless.

[5:39] And the one thing that I discovered is

[5:41] as I was reading stories about

[5:43] successful people,

[5:46] I was shocked to find how all of them,

[5:49] every single person I read about, had

[5:51] encountered massive failure on their way

[5:54] to success. And so I read stories about

[5:56] how Michael Jordan got cut from his high

[5:58] school basketball team, but went on to

[6:00] become one of the greatest athletes of

[6:02] all time. Or J.K. J.K. Rowling couldn't

[6:04] get Harry Potter published and she tried

[6:06] dozens of times. Or how Walt Disney went

[6:09] bankrupt so many times on his way to

[6:11] start Disneyland. And I was like, "Huh,

[6:14] if all of these very successful people

[6:18] failed all these times on their way to

[6:20] success,

[6:22] then maybe my story could be the same.

[6:24] Maybe failure was not my story. It was

[6:29] not my whole book. Maybe it was just a

[6:30] chapter or in my case several chapters

[6:34] of my book. And that this was all

[6:36] somehow preparing me for something

[6:39] greater."

[6:41] So, I started to think about it and I

[6:43] was like, "Well, what is

[6:46] my superpower?

[6:47] What is the one thing that I'm better at

[6:50] than anyone else that I can go and do?"

[6:53] And you know what that thing was?

[6:55] Failure.

[6:57] >> [laughter]

[6:58] >> I had failed more at 30 years old than

[7:02] anyone I knew.

[7:05] And so I was like, "If I'm a subject

[7:06] matter on one thing, I can talk about

[7:09] failure." And as I started to think

[7:11] about it, I was like, "There's so many

[7:13] people out there that feel like their

[7:15] life is not where they want it to be.

[7:17] That feel like they had big dreams and

[7:19] goals that never quite worked out."

[7:23] I could connect with that person.

[7:26] I could let that person know that

[7:27] they're not alone.

[7:29] And I could also

[7:32] talk about how I failed, why I failed to

[7:34] help them learn from my mistakes so

[7:36] maybe they could avoid making some of

[7:38] those on their own. And [clears throat]

[7:40] so I started talking on camera.

[7:43] And just talking about my life and

[7:45] giving advice.

[7:46] >> And were these part of the first 99

[7:48] videos?

[7:49] >> This was the first video I ever put out

[7:50] was about not giving up on your dreams.

[7:53] And it's a good thing because I wanted

[7:56] to give up so many times while I was

[7:58] making that video.

[7:59] >> Mhm.

[8:00] >> For anyone that's thinking about making

[8:01] content, it's so hard to go in front of

[8:05] camera. I mean, unless you're some

[8:06] prodigy and you were meant for camera,

[8:08] for me it was the opposite of that. I

[8:10] never imagined myself on camera. So,

[8:13] even though it was just like 3 minutes

[8:15] and I all my lines were scripted,

[8:18] I took me probably

[8:20] hundreds of takes in order to say that.

[8:23] My girlfriend at the time, now my wife,

[8:25] kept saying, "Just be yourself." That's

[8:27] the hardest thing to do on camera.

[8:30] Especially if you don't know who

[8:32] yourself is, like me, cuz I was still

[8:34] struggling to find myself in all of

[8:36] this.

[8:36] >> Yeah.

[8:37] >> So,

[8:37] >> And and by the way, I just want to say

[8:39] that as an actor,

[8:40] >> Yeah.

[8:41] >> when you're given the direction to like,

[8:42] "Just be yourself more as a character."

[8:45] It's one of the hardest things

[8:46] >> Right.

[8:46] >> to do. Yeah. It's like people like one

[8:48] of my favorite actors of all time is

[8:51] Brad Pitt.

[8:52] Because you wouldn't think of like him

[8:54] having this huge hugely wide range.

[8:57] Right. But his ability

[8:59] to be himself and bring himself to those

[9:01] roles and all of the nuance and you can

[9:04] see him thinking, see him feeling, and

[9:07] yet each character is really distinct.

[9:10] Uh is so hard to do and he makes it look

[9:13] so easy.

[9:14] >> Yeah, agreed.

[9:16] And so, you know, when I recorded my

[9:18] first video, I really hesitated to put

[9:19] it out. And the same doubts that a lot

[9:22] of us face, what if no one watches it?

[9:25] What if people think I'm cringe?

[9:27] And then I realized that, you know what?

[9:30] Because again, I'm a mission I'm doing

[9:31] this for the cause, not the applause.

[9:34] Even if one person watches my videos and

[9:38] has a better day because of it, then

[9:40] it's worthwhile for me to put this video

[9:42] out. [clears throat]

[9:42] >> Mhm.

[9:43] >> I posted on May 29th, 2018, my birthday,

[9:47] and it's a good thing I had that mindset

[9:49] because only one person [laughter] did

[9:51] watch my video.

[9:53] >> My mother-in-law.

[9:54] >> Yeah.

[9:55] >> I kept I kept refreshing and refreshing

[9:57] thinking that

[9:58] >> like one, one, one.

[9:59] >> Yeah. You know, you try to you try to

[10:01] break a comma. That's like when you're

[10:03] starting out as a creator, that's the

[10:05] biggest thing if you get a comma in the

[10:06] numbers, which is like 1,000, but I

[10:09] couldn't even break like 10. And I would

[10:12] then I would start asking like, "Hey,

[10:14] can you share these videos?" I'd start

[10:17] reaching out to people, right? Um and

[10:19] nobody would watch those. And so for a

[10:21] long time, I was just putting out videos

[10:23] trying to give advice. And then my wife

[10:25] one day told me, she was like, "Don't

[10:27] tell people, show people."

[10:30] I was like, "Huh, that's interesting."

[10:32] So instead of telling advice, I would

[10:34] start storytelling.

[10:36] And I would describe a story that

[10:37] happened to me with a moral lesson, or

[10:40] just story like the fables that we know,

[10:42] like the tortoise and the hare, for

[10:44] instance. I would share story and then I

[10:46] would give a moral at the end. And then

[10:49] once I realized that, I would actually I

[10:51] found this like cheap company that did

[10:53] illustrations or 2D animations that

[10:55] maybe charged like 100 bucks a pop.

[10:57] >> Yeah.

[10:58] >> And I would put in these animations

[11:00] inner-cut into my video, so now you're

[11:02] actually visually seeing the story play

[11:04] out. Well, before I couldn't break 100

[11:06] views when I was giving advice. When I

[11:08] was storytelling, I couldn't break 1,000

[11:10] views. Once I put the animations in, now

[11:12] I was getting to like 5,000 views. So it

[11:14] was like, "I'm on the right track. I'm

[11:16] on the right track." And you know, at

[11:18] that time, I wasn't spending anything on

[11:19] my videos cuz I didn't really have

[11:20] money. I was I was like a one-person

[11:23] team, right? Like I would stay up with

[11:25] my wife and we'd like ideate and we'd

[11:27] edit, we'd learn how to do everything

[11:29] ourselves. I had one team member that,

[11:32] you know, I was like barely affording

[11:34] and he just sort of believed in the

[11:36] mission for some reason. We were

[11:37] shooting everything out of my small

[11:39] little studio apartment. My studio was

[11:41] literally a studio apartment that was

[11:42] like 600 sq. ft.

[11:44] And we shot everything on iPhones, you

[11:46] know, did it as scrappy as possible.

[11:49] And it's a good thing because imagine if

[11:50] my inexperience is what made me

[11:52] successful because imagine if I thought

[11:54] as a traditional filmmaker and I was

[11:56] like, oh, I got to have this big fancy

[11:59] setup and all these locations and I

[12:02] would have went out to banks and try to

[12:03] get loans and use credit card debt. I

[12:05] would have spent all my money on one

[12:07] video. It wouldn't have worked and then

[12:09] I would have failed and I would spend

[12:10] the next 10 years trying to pay off that

[12:12] debt. But because I didn't have

[12:13] resources, I didn't have knowledge of

[12:14] how it's supposed to be done, I was just

[12:16] shooting in my apartment on an iPhone.

[12:19] And so, I was putting out video after

[12:21] video after video.

[12:23] It wasn't working and even though, you

[12:25] know, it was mission based, I was more

[12:26] so mission based about trying to inspire

[12:28] people, not so the format in which I did

[12:30] it. And so, I started getting

[12:32] discouraged cuz again, I was not

[12:34] sleeping. I was working all day for like

[12:37] a regular job and then at night I was

[12:38] creating content. I wasn't spending time

[12:40] with my wife, wasn't socializing, wasn't

[12:42] going to the gym. And so, I was like,

[12:44] babe, like I don't know if this is for

[12:46] me.

[12:47] Like maybe I just have to find another

[12:49] way. Maybe I'll write a book or

[12:50] something and she goes, no, you've

[12:51] worked so hard on this. I really believe

[12:53] in you. Keep going. It's amazing how

[12:55] it's always like that one person, you

[12:57] know, and and a lot of times it might be

[13:00] like a friend, it might be, you know,

[13:01] teacher, it might be your partner,

[13:04] um but she really

[13:05] kept going and believing in me. So, I

[13:08] kept making videos, kept making videos

[13:09] and then I got to my 99th video.

[13:12] And I was like, all right, you know,

[13:13] I've put out 99 videos now. Like,

[13:17] please, let me give up and try something

[13:19] else instead.

[13:21] And she didn't want to agree to that,

[13:22] but you know, she saw how hard I was

[13:24] working and and how miserable I was

[13:26] making myself. So, she goes, okay, well,

[13:28] whatever you want to do." So, I decided

[13:29] I'm going to make my last video.

[13:32] And at this time, I used to write my

[13:34] scripts on napkins at that time. My

[13:36] scripts were just basically what I was

[13:37] going to say to camera, cuz everything

[13:39] was just me talking to camera with some

[13:41] animations tied in.

[13:43] And everything was a life lesson, right?

[13:45] So, this lesson I wanted to talk about

[13:47] was on infidelity, and how about

[13:49] infidelity could start with seemingly

[13:51] innocent acts.

[13:53] And the idea I was coming up with in my

[13:56] head was there's this husband who's

[13:59] scrolling Facebook while his wife is

[14:02] cooking him dinner and has her back

[14:04] towards him, and he stumbles upon his

[14:07] ex's post.

[14:09] And he's debating if he should like it

[14:11] or not.

[14:12] And the story's going to go into if he

[14:13] likes it, then that kind of turns into a

[14:14] comment, then that turns into a message,

[14:16] then that turns into coffee. It starts

[14:19] to snowball, and one seemingly innocent

[14:20] act can lead to the next. As I'm writing

[14:23] this,

[14:24] I happen to look over in my kitchen, and

[14:27] my brother-in-law is visiting, and he's

[14:29] scrolling on his phone on Facebook.

[14:33] And my wife's friend is cooking

[14:35] something in the kitchen with her back

[14:38] towards him.

[14:39] And I suddenly had this lightbulb

[14:41] moment.

[14:43] What if I had them as actors on the

[14:46] screen while I narrated the story? So, I

[14:50] go to them, and I'm like, "Guys, would

[14:52] you be okay with being in a video?"

[14:54] And they're like, "Well, what do we have

[14:56] to do?"

[14:58] In hindsight, I probably should have

[15:00] told him that I was going to portray him

[15:01] as a cheater,

[15:03] but I never thought that.

[15:04] I was like, "Only 10 people are going to

[15:05] watch this. It's not going to matter,

[15:07] right?"

[15:11] So, I'm like, "Just stand there. You

[15:12] keep scrolling your phone. You keep

[15:13] cooking." And I started recording the

[15:16] camera, and I started voiceovering it

[15:18] with me on camera. You could see me

[15:20] talking, and the situation's playing

[15:22] out.

[15:24] I finish that video. I schedule it to go

[15:26] live the next morning

[15:28] at 8:00 at 6:00 a.m.

[15:31] I wake up at 7:00 a.m. with my wife

[15:33] shaking me. She's like, "Darrel, Darrel,

[15:35] wake up." I was like, "What's going on?"

[15:37] She's like, "That video that you posted,

[15:40] it's going viral."

[15:42] And I was like, "What are you talking

[15:43] about?"

[15:44] That video went on to get 250

[15:49] million views.

[15:52] >> Woah.

[15:53] >> The last video that I ever planned on

[15:56] posting was the one was the one that

[15:59] went viral.

[16:00] >> Oh.

[16:00] >> And so, you know, the moral of the story

[16:02] is like, you never know how close you

[16:05] are to success. You literally could be

[16:08] one door, one phone call, one piece of

[16:12] content away, and you'll never know

[16:15] unless you keep going. Because what

[16:17] keeps me up at night is what if I gave

[16:19] up on video number 99?

[16:21] >> Mhm. Mhm.

[16:22] >> I certainly wouldn't be here.

[16:23] >> I know kids these days are all about

[16:25] looksmaxing, but when you get to a

[16:27] certain age, it's all about timemaxing.

[16:30] You know what I mean. How can I claw

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[18:36] Thank you.

[18:37] >> A couple things come to mind. One is

[18:40] I'm so glad you moved away from the

[18:41] advice thing. One of the things I see

[18:43] happening on social media is people feel

[18:46] like

[18:47] in order, you know, they have a uh

[18:51] a hero, like

[18:52] Steven Bartlett from Diary of a CEO,

[18:54] let's say. Brilliant guy.

[18:57] And they're and they're like, "I want to

[18:58] be the next Steven Bartlett. So, I need

[19:00] to give advice." Right.

[19:02] You know, and and listen, I want to hear

[19:05] advice, but I want to hear advice from

[19:06] people that have been through it, you

[19:09] know? I that have read a thousand books,

[19:12] that have started and failed, that have

[19:14] struggled, that are like Dr. Gabor Mate,

[19:18] you know, worked on the streets with

[19:20] addicts and the mentally ill for decades

[19:23] and he's talking about you know, mental

[19:25] health, how it works in your brain,

[19:27] trauma, like that's who I want I don't

[19:30] want to hear advice from a 27-year-old,

[19:33] no matter how smart they are. But

[19:35] figuring out ways to

[19:38] what you did there was so genius to

[19:39] figure out how to take you're still

[19:42] giving advice, but when it's framed in

[19:45] story,

[19:46] your show, don't tell scenario,

[19:50] that's what people respond to and that

[19:51] has been the recipe for success for Dhar

[19:54] Mann Studios.

[19:55] >> Yeah, to your point, like the best

[19:57] business advice I could give is don't

[20:00] fall into the trap of paying for online

[20:03] mentors to teach you lessons.

[20:07] Because if they were so great at

[20:09] whatever it is that they're doing, the

[20:11] business they're building, whether it's

[20:12] drop shipping or crypto or AI or

[20:15] whatever it is, they would just use all

[20:17] that knowledge for themselves. And more

[20:20] importantly, you are paying someone who

[20:23] is also training your competition.

[20:27] You are not the only one student that

[20:29] they have. They are trying to get as

[20:30] many students as possible and maybe even

[20:32] trying to make you an affiliate to help

[20:34] them get more students. So, you're going

[20:36] into a business that is creating an

[20:39] indefinite more amount of competition.

[20:42] >> Yeah.

[20:43] >> Does it ever make sense to be the

[20:44] thousandth coffee store in a

[20:46] neighborhood? No, it doesn't.

[20:48] >> reminds me of this school we used to

[20:50] work with in Haiti and they decided to

[20:52] do vocational training and they're like,

[20:54] "Oh, they need welders. We always need

[20:57] welders in Haiti. We'll offer welding

[20:59] classes." So, they trained dozens of

[21:01] young men to be welders. Well, they

[21:03] didn't think it through because all

[21:04] these dozens of young men lived within a

[21:07] mile or two of the school.

[21:08] >> Right.

[21:09] >> And now all of them wanted to be welders

[21:11] and started welding businesses and they

[21:13] were at each other's throats and there

[21:15] were fights breaking out and there was

[21:17] kind of the worst kind of competition.

[21:20] But in a way, even though that's, you

[21:22] know, the uh

[21:24] you know, impoverished country of Haiti

[21:26] that still holds true for for something

[21:29] like that. That's That's well said.

[21:32] >> When you were at this nadir, when you

[21:34] were at your low at 30 and you're like,

[21:37] "Wow, I've failed so many times. Maybe I

[21:40] can turn

[21:41] the wisdom that I gained through

[21:43] failure." And I loved what you said

[21:45] about that because it's true.

[21:47] Everyone successful I know has

[21:50] really fallen on their face and [ __ ]

[21:53] up big time uh countless times.

[21:57] Um

[21:59] Where did God start to become a presence

[22:02] in your life? When did prayer, when did

[22:04] meditation Cuz you talk about it a lot

[22:06] now.

[22:07] >> Right.

[22:07] >> Was that with you then or is that

[22:10] something you gained later on in

[22:12] building the studio?

[22:13] >> Yeah. So I'm happy to answer this

[22:14] question. When God is preparing you for

[22:16] more, he rarely begins with comfort. He

[22:20] stretches your patience, removes

[22:21] distractions, and takes you through

[22:23] seasons of failure that you don't

[22:25] understand. But it's not to punish you.

[22:28] It's to prepare you because silence

[22:31] teaches you to hear him. Struggle

[22:33] reveals your strength. And uncertainty

[22:36] builds your faith. Before God gives you

[22:39] the life that you've been praying for,

[22:41] he shapes you into the person that can

[22:43] actually carry it. So don't mistake this

[22:46] difficult season as rejection.

[22:48] It's just preparation.

[22:51] >> When did God start playing this role in

[22:53] your life? When did your understanding

[22:55] of your higher power

[22:57] start to act in your life in this way

[23:00] with that kind of wisdom?

[23:02] >> It It really is at your lowest point in

[23:05] life. I know we're all running from rock

[23:07] bottom and nobody wants to be there or

[23:10] stay there, but that truly is when you

[23:12] get the most inspiration and start to

[23:15] shape into the person that you need to

[23:17] be in order to succeed.

[23:19] If I kept succeeding at all the

[23:21] different things that I was doing, I

[23:23] would have always just been chasing

[23:24] money, I would have never found purpose,

[23:26] I would have never met the love of my

[23:28] life, I would have never had the

[23:31] beautiful children that I have. My life

[23:33] would not have been where it is today.

[23:34] And if you look at any sort of hard

[23:36] decision in your life, you might have

[23:37] been rejected from the roles, you might

[23:40] have had a relationship go wrong, you

[23:42] might have had a previous book or

[23:45] business flop. But ultimately, if it

[23:47] wasn't for that,

[23:49] you wouldn't have gotten the role on The

[23:51] Office,

[23:52] right? You wouldn't have started this

[23:53] podcast or met your your spouse. I don't

[23:56] know if you're if you're married or not,

[23:58] right? So, you have to go through these

[24:00] hard times in order to become the person

[24:04] that you're meant to be.

[24:06] And what's really interesting, so going

[24:07] back to my story

[24:09] of being bullied all the time,

[24:11] you know, when I was growing up, so a

[24:13] lot of those people that used to bully

[24:15] me for not fitting in or for being a

[24:17] loser or an outcast,

[24:20] now a lot of them are trying to be

[24:22] friends with me.

[24:24] And it's funny how it goes. And you

[24:25] know, one of my favorite quotes

[24:28] is that God will put you back together

[24:32] in front of those that broke you.

[24:36] And so, while we're

[24:38] sometimes so humiliated about our

[24:40] mistakes and people judging us, somehow

[24:43] we learn the lessons that we need to

[24:45] learn during those difficult times

[24:48] and it helps build us into this

[24:50] stronger, better version of our self.

[24:54] And it happens right in front of those

[24:56] that try to destroy us.

[24:58] And so how I see it is it's similar to

[25:01] when you lift weights and you destroy

[25:02] your muscle, that's essentially what

[25:03] you're doing. It comes back stronger as

[25:06] long as you're following the diet,

[25:08] right? As long as you're trying to get

[25:09] better. I look at failures as lessons

[25:12] that I need to learn, right? I don't

[25:14] just see the burden, I see the blessing.

[25:16] And what's interesting is that I've

[25:19] learned that God always answers prayers.

[25:21] The reason that we feel like sometimes

[25:23] he doesn't is because it's not always in

[25:25] the form that we look for.

[25:27] Because the

[25:29] blessing always comes after the burden.

[25:32] For instance, if I was to ask for

[25:33] strength,

[25:35] would I certainly be given like huge

[25:37] biceps?

[25:39] No, that's not how it works. I would be

[25:41] given situations that are tough that I

[25:44] would have to overcome that would make

[25:46] me stronger. And if I was to ask for

[25:49] courage,

[25:50] would I suddenly become courageous? No,

[25:52] I would have to be in hard situations on

[25:55] certain situations that God knows I'm

[25:58] capable of overcoming cuz they don't

[26:00] give you more burden than that he knows

[26:02] that you're capable of handling. And on

[26:03] the other side of that is where I

[26:05] develop courage. And similarly, if I was

[26:08] to pray for help me feel closer to my

[26:10] family,

[26:12] would I suddenly have these warm fuzzy

[26:14] feelings all over my body and feel close

[26:16] to them? No, I would actually be given

[26:19] hard situations with my family that

[26:22] would test our ability to overcome them.

[26:25] And when you overcome those situations

[26:27] is really when your actual family comes

[26:29] together and you feel. So, God always

[26:32] answers prayers, it's just the blessing

[26:35] always comes after the burden.

[26:36] >> That is so well said. I've never heard

[26:38] it said that way before and

[26:41] what a beautiful metaphor. Like if you

[26:44] pray for strength,

[26:45] God is going to somehow or other in your

[26:48] path metaphorically drop a bunch of

[26:50] resistance bands

[26:52] and dumbbells

[26:54] somewhere in your life that you're going

[26:56] to have to

[26:57] work [snorts]

[26:58] through somehow and you will come out

[27:01] with the blessing on the other side of

[27:04] the test.

[27:05] It's interesting. I'm

[27:07] writing a book right now on the meaning

[27:10] of life and uh

[27:13] one of the chapters I'm just

[27:15] trying to finish up is on is on

[27:17] suffering. And the nature of suffering

[27:19] and why there is suffering.

[27:21] And

[27:23] you know, the only reason that I can

[27:24] come up for why there is suffering in

[27:27] this world and I spoke about it with the

[27:29] author David Bentley Hart um

[27:32] and is

[27:35] it is through tests and difficulties

[27:38] that our soul grows and we're here in

[27:40] this physical world.

[27:42] It's a soul growing machine and it's

[27:45] working on our hearts and our souls and

[27:48] our spirits to make them ever stronger.

[27:50] And unfortunately, it is the nature of

[27:53] this physical plane to present us with

[27:56] change,

[27:57] >> [snorts]

[27:58] >> with disaster, natural disasters, with

[28:01] accidents, with cancers and diseases,

[28:04] with hardship, with a an ever ongoing

[28:08] struggle between ourselves and our egos.

[28:11] This is the nature of the world. The

[28:12] Buddha got it right, you know, life is

[28:14] suffering. And

[28:17] hopefully you come out on the other side

[28:19] with some measure of gratitude and

[28:21] perspective and wisdom having looked

[28:24] back

[28:25] at those resistance bands.

[28:27] >> Without darkness, there wouldn't be

[28:29] light. Without sadness, there wouldn't

[28:31] be happiness. And without hate, there

[28:33] wouldn't be love.

[28:35] >> But if you were growing up with a kind

[28:38] of a a cultural and a patriarchal

[28:42] view that a man's role is to make money

[28:45] where did you gain this experience of

[28:48] God that guided you?

[28:50] >> Yeah, failure. I mean, you know, if

[28:52] again, if I had not

[28:53] >> on your knees praying or did you go to a

[28:55] church? Did you Is there a certain book

[28:57] you read? What gave you that idea of a

[29:00] higher power?

[29:00] >> I specifically remember

[29:03] there was one night

[29:05] that I prayed so hard and I prayed so

[29:10] long for God to help me climb out of

[29:13] this hole I was in that I was literally

[29:16] crying and crying for hours. Like that's

[29:19] how hard I had prayed. I was going in

[29:21] the temple every single day. I was

[29:23] praying every single night. I was asking

[29:25] God for light and direction. It didn't

[29:27] happen by accident. It goes back to what

[29:30] I was saying earlier that

[29:31] people say that you get lucky

[29:34] but it's not luck. It's You can see the

[29:37] blessings, but you don't see all the

[29:39] nights that I spent praying.

[29:41] You can see all the open doors, but you

[29:43] don't see the closed doors that I was

[29:45] asking God for direction. You could see

[29:47] the outcome, but you don't see all the

[29:49] seasons that God helped hold me together

[29:51] during those tough times. So,

[29:54] luck doesn't give you

[29:57] protection, redirection, or help hold

[29:59] you together. Only God does.

[30:02] And so, it's not luck.

[30:05] It's

[30:06] >> I love that. That was really well said.

[30:10] What or who is God to you?

[30:14] >> I don't see God as

[30:19] it is this one

[30:21] person or being or

[30:24] you know, you have to pray to the north

[30:26] and ring the bell to the south and you

[30:29] have to do this five times a day, right?

[30:31] Like I am more of a spiritual person

[30:34] that just believes that there is a

[30:36] higher power and that really every

[30:37] pathway

[30:39] is a pathway to get there. Like I think

[30:42] I respect and I love every religion.

[30:45] Um my wife is Catholic. She's Hispanic

[30:48] and I am Indian Sikh. We raise our

[30:52] daughters to be aware of like both

[30:54] religions and I want them to learn about

[30:56] all the different religions and see what

[30:58] kind of speaks to them.

[31:00] So to me, I'm very like open-minded in

[31:03] that sense. I just know that we're not

[31:05] here by accident. Just kind of going

[31:08] back to our conversation earlier that

[31:10] there if you look at anything, like how

[31:13] was this table made? Okay, well with

[31:15] wood. Well, how was wood made? Okay,

[31:17] with a tree. Well, how was tree made?

[31:18] Through a seed. How was that seed made?

[31:20] You just go how was this? How was You

[31:22] just go why why why why how how how how?

[31:25] You eventually run out of an

[31:26] explanation.

[31:29] At some point in time,

[31:31] you won't be able to say why except for

[31:34] God.

[31:36] And so to me, that's the greatest proof

[31:37] of all of that God is behind all this.

[31:41] >> I think the acorn metaphor God gave us

[31:45] possibly the the greatest metaphor that

[31:48] exists and this is goes along

[31:50] >> Yeah.

[31:50] >> with what you're saying is that you can

[31:52] hold up an acorn and you can show a

[31:53] child and you can be like

[31:55] do you see that tree that's 300 ft tall?

[31:58] Like it's going to come it came out of

[32:01] this.

[32:02] >> Yeah.

[32:03] >> How did that become that?

[32:05] >> Right.

[32:06] >> Potential.

[32:07] >> And to talk about

[32:09] you know, balance like you were saying,

[32:11] like one tree can make a million matches

[32:14] and one match can burn down a million

[32:16] trees.

[32:17] >> Ooh. That's good, too.

[32:19] >> Yeah.

[32:21] >> A lot of nuggets.

[32:22] >> [laughter]

[32:22] >> A lot of nuggets with Dhar Mann.

[32:25] Um this is sidebar, but I it's it's on

[32:28] my mind because I had a conversation

[32:29] with my son who's 21 about it. This You

[32:32] used a long time ago now, like 20

[32:33] minutes ago, you used the word cringe.

[32:35] >> Mhm.

[32:36] >> You know, are people going to find my

[32:37] videos cringe? Yeah. And this word has a

[32:41] very special meaning for folks,

[32:43] teenagers, and folks in their 20s

[32:44] especially.

[32:46] And my son always uses it. He's like, I

[32:49] don't want to do that cuz it's cringe or

[32:51] people might think it's cringe. They

[32:52] might think I'm creepy.

[32:54] And it's this generation that's grown up

[32:57] with phones and cameras and

[32:58] documentation and social media

[33:00] everywhere where

[33:02] they are afraid to fail in such a way

[33:07] that it will be documented and they will

[33:09] be humiliated. Right at the time, 14,

[33:12] 15, 16, 17, when you care what other

[33:15] people think more than anything else.

[33:17] Like you cared about the people in your

[33:18] school as you were driving them home

[33:21] after parties in your in your Cadillac.

[33:23] That's when kids are pointing phones at

[33:26] each other more than ever. I heard this

[33:30] kind of sociologist talk about the fact

[33:32] that young people aren't dancing as much

[33:35] anymore. They're not dancing with each

[33:37] other. It's hard to find people dancing

[33:39] or working on that except in like a

[33:41] dance studio.

[33:43] Just coming together and dances and and

[33:46] being silly and dancing. And it's

[33:48] interesting, too, when you Have you ever

[33:49] gone to look at video footage of high

[33:52] school kids in the 90s?

[33:54] They have this on YouTube a lot. They're

[33:56] so un-self-conscious.

[33:57] There's someone bringing a camcorder, a

[33:59] big cheap, you know, JVC camcorder into

[34:02] into school and kids are just like goofy

[34:05] and sweaty and falling down and trying

[34:07] to do cartwheels and falling on their

[34:09] asses and and and now there's so much

[34:13] less risk being taken because they don't

[34:16] want to be humiliated. They're not

[34:19] dancing cuz they don't want someone to

[34:20] film and for them to look stupid and for

[34:22] that to get passed around or put on

[34:24] TikTok and they look like idiots. So

[34:27] it's created this cringe kind of

[34:30] infection

[34:31] that for a generation is pre- preventing

[34:34] them from making mistakes and trying

[34:38] things and falling on their asses

[34:41] because you know, for there might be a

[34:43] 17-year-old listening right now who

[34:45] wants to have a YouTube channel, but

[34:47] they're afraid to fail in that same way

[34:50] that you did at 30

[34:52] and their friends all laughing at them

[34:54] or making comments in the comment bar.

[34:56] So, how do we fight cringe?

[35:01] >> Well, why does cringe exist in the first

[35:03] place? It actually wasn't because of

[35:05] phones.

[35:07] It wasn't because of social media.

[35:10] It's because of one word.

[35:12] >> Mhm.

[35:13] >> Comments.

[35:16] Like if you think about why young people

[35:18] like Snapchat so much, you can't see

[35:21] what other people are commenting. It's

[35:23] all direct message that goes directly to

[35:25] the person. So, people are a lot more

[35:27] comfortable taking snaps

[35:30] of themselves versus actually posting

[35:32] something on Instagram. The daily

[35:34] activity there is way higher and when I

[35:36] meet young people, they often want to

[35:37] post a picture on Snapchat now.

[35:40] So,

[35:41] back in the day, if someone was to

[35:43] create a video on one of those

[35:45] camcorders, like you might have, you

[35:47] know,

[35:48] your uncle's going to see it, you know,

[35:50] on the VHS like when they're watching

[35:51] the cassette back or something, but

[35:53] you're not going to be able to see all

[35:55] these strangers that are commenting with

[35:57] their different thoughts.

[35:58] But what's interesting is

[36:00] because of the fear of being cringe,

[36:03] it's removed our ability to take

[36:05] chances.

[36:07] And so,

[36:08] a lot of people want to start a

[36:09] business. You're worried of failing

[36:11] because people are going to think your

[36:12] idea is cringe. People might want to

[36:14] write a book. They might want to be an

[36:16] artist. They might want to put out

[36:17] content, but now we have this

[36:19] ever-growing fear of what are people

[36:21] going to think? And it's not just in our

[36:23] close community. It's actually all

[36:26] across the world now because even if

[36:29] you're not trying to be in social media,

[36:31] you certainly can be. How many videos do

[36:33] we watch of just a random stranger that

[36:35] happened to be doing something that went

[36:36] viral? And a lot of people will call

[36:38] that person cringe, or that person can

[36:40] become famous. But here is what you have

[36:42] to remember

[36:43] is that success is on the other side of

[36:46] cringe. Because cringe is really just

[36:48] being able to take a chance. That's all

[36:49] it is.

[36:50] And what's more interesting is the more

[36:52] successful you get, the cringier you

[36:55] are.

[36:57] Because take me for example. I have 170

[36:59] million followers. I get 1.5 billion

[37:02] views per month.

[37:05] >> Woah.

[37:05] >> Do you know how many people

[37:08] are there watching because they think

[37:09] it's cringe? Or how many people must not

[37:12] like my videos because I've that big of

[37:14] an audience?

[37:15] Right? It's like you could become

[37:17] president of the world if even less than

[37:19] half the president of the United States

[37:20] if even less even less than 50% of the

[37:23] population likes you.

[37:25] >> Yeah.

[37:25] >> Right? So, I would say like it's really

[37:28] just think of cringe as your comfort

[37:29] zone, and you have to get out of your

[37:31] comfort zone in order to be successful.

[37:33] Easier said than done, and easier said

[37:36] than done

[37:37] to

[37:38] for someone who's 16 years old.

[37:40] >> Right.

[37:41] >> Where that one comment

[37:43] could

[37:44] >> Yeah.

[37:45] >> could wound them for for weeks. Right.

[37:48] >> But just think about the person that's

[37:49] commenting that. Are they creating? Are

[37:51] they making the video?

[37:52] >> Yeah.

[37:53] >> Right? They're playing it so safe that

[37:55] they're just always going to do that for

[37:56] the rest of their lives. And I guarantee

[37:59] you that person that's going around

[38:00] commenting cringe is not going to ever

[38:02] do anything meaningful with their life.

[38:04] It's the person that took chances. And

[38:06] every single creator that I know today,

[38:09] whether it's Mr. Beast, or whether it's

[38:15] Dude Perfect, or Dhar Mann,

[38:18] all of us for a very long time got

[38:20] called cringe. And guess what? We still

[38:22] get called cringe more than ever today.

[38:25] And so you'll never be able to get that

[38:27] to stop. I would say you're just skin

[38:30] grows thicker the more that you do it.

[38:32] And that's how experience and success is

[38:35] really what helps you overcome that.

[38:37] >> this before, but early on when I started

[38:40] taking off as an actor on Six Feet Under

[38:42] and on The Office, it was the early days

[38:43] of message boards.

[38:44] >> Yeah.

[38:45] >> So 2003, 2004, 2005, right in there.

[38:49] >> Right.

[38:49] >> 2006. And I would read the messages, and

[38:54] some of them were, you know, positive,

[38:55] but then it would always be like, "That

[38:57] guy looks so weird. What a pig-looking

[39:00] freak. And like, he can't act." And it

[39:03] would just devastate me. I was like, and

[39:05] and I was older at that point. I was

[39:06] late 30s. I was like, "Oh." And now

[39:09] like, I just could I read all kinds of

[39:12] negative stuff about me online and made

[39:14] up news articles and headlines that are

[39:17] meant to kind of damage my reputation. I

[39:19] don't even

[39:20] >> So you know what's interesting?

[39:21] >> that my producer gets all worked up and

[39:23] he's like, "Oh no, we got this." And

[39:24] it's like, "You know what? In 3 days, no

[39:26] one's going to care. It just goes by. It

[39:29] just blows over."

[39:29] >> made you more successful in the first

[39:31] place. So I love using Arnold

[39:33] Schwarzenegger as an example of this. So

[39:35] he had three goals, which later turned

[39:37] into four when he added politics. But

[39:39] when he was in Austria, he wanted to be

[39:42] a world champion bodybuilder, he wanted

[39:43] to move to America, and he wanted to be

[39:46] a big Hollywood actor. So he

[39:49] accomplished his goal of weightlifting,

[39:51] becoming the most successful one of the

[39:53] most successful bodybuilders in history.

[39:56] Then he moved to America through that.

[39:58] And then when he went to try to be a

[39:59] movie star,

[40:01] a casting director told him,

[40:04] "You'll never be a star because stars

[40:07] don't have that kind of accent.

[40:10] People will never accept you in

[40:11] America."

[40:12] >> Mhm.

[40:12] >> Eventually he got cast as The

[40:14] Terminator.

[40:16] And now after the movie came out, the

[40:19] way that he says, "I'll be back."

[40:21] >> Mhm.

[40:22] >> The reason it became such an iconic line

[40:25] is because of his accent and the way

[40:27] that he said it.

[40:29] So, what he thought was his biggest

[40:30] struggle actually ended up becoming his

[40:32] biggest superpower.

[40:34] >> Yeah.

[40:35] >> And so, whatever we're embarrassed about

[40:36] is actually what makes us more relatable

[40:38] and stand out the most.

[40:40] >> Yeah.

[40:40] >> We just should embrace it.

[40:41] >> nerdy background that I was describing

[40:44] to you with

[40:44] >> Yeah.

[40:45] >> chess and marching band and theater

[40:47] geeks and Dungeons and Dragons,

[40:49] >> Yeah.

[40:50] >> that allowed me to see into the world of

[40:52] Dwight Schrute,

[40:54] you know? And what I thought was a

[40:56] failing of mine, personal, that I was so

[40:59] nerdy, um

[41:02] actually

[41:03] >> Yeah.

[41:03] >> became a kind of a superpower.

[41:04] >> And nerds now are cool. Like, you know,

[41:07] we there's a saying that be nice to

[41:09] nerds because they may end up as your

[41:10] boss one day.

[41:11] >> that's very true.

[41:12] >> And I think we're seeing that more than

[41:13] ever.

[41:14] >> Folks, I have a confession. I will put

[41:16] off making a doctor's appointment for a

[41:18] truly ridiculous amount of time. Not

[41:20] because I don't care about my health,

[41:21] because I I just don't want to make the

[41:22] phone call. You know how it is. You

[41:24] call, you're put on hold, you leave a

[41:26] message, someone calls back while you're

[41:28] recording a podcast about the human

[41:29] soul, you call them back, they're at

[41:31] lunch. Three weeks later, whatever was

[41:33] wrong with you has either healed itself

[41:35] or become part of your personality. So,

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[42:21] This episode is brought to you by

[42:22] Fetzer. You know, there's this tendency

[42:24] in modern life to believe that every

[42:25] problem has a material solution. More

[42:27] technology, more productivity, more

[42:29] money, more apps reminding you to

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[42:33] your soul feels like a raisin. But the

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[43:26] If you Google you online,

[43:28] there's some negative press. There's

[43:30] some [ __ ] you've gone through.

[43:31] >> Yeah.

[43:31] >> You've taken some real reputational

[43:33] dings.

[43:35] Your whole story is about how do we

[43:38] learn to become better people, better

[43:40] leaders, how do we learn from our

[43:41] mistakes, how do we grow?

[43:44] What How do you feel kind of looking

[43:47] back at that? And by the way,

[43:50] I'm not so far off. You know, just dig a

[43:53] little bit deep in Google and, you know,

[43:55] there's, you know, there's definitely

[43:57] some reputational dings back there. How

[43:59] How have you processed that? How are you

[44:02] moving forward?

[44:04] >> I think I heard you in a podcast

[44:05] actually say that

[44:07] I've made a lot of mistakes, I don't

[44:09] have as many regrets because

[44:13] those mistakes actually help shape you

[44:15] as to who you are. Again, as long as you

[44:18] learn from them. I look at failure the

[44:20] way that Ray Dalio describes it, the

[44:22] author of Principles and founder of

[44:23] Blackstone. He talks about failure as

[44:27] you playing a video game where there's

[44:29] different gems in the game. And he sees

[44:32] the gems as failure. That every time you

[44:34] collect a gem, you become 1% stronger.

[44:37] >> Mhm.

[44:37] >> And so the best leaders don't try to

[44:39] avoid failure.

[44:41] They actually embrace it because they

[44:43] realize that it helps them become

[44:45] stronger and better.

[44:47] And so yeah, you know, for a long time I

[44:49] just I didn't have the best direction. I

[44:51] was chasing the wrong things. I was

[44:53] doing things

[44:57] for the money, not the mission.

[44:59] >> Mhm.

[44:59] >> Um

[45:00] and that led me to a lot of bad

[45:02] decisions.

[45:03] >> Taking some shortcuts.

[45:05] >> And hopefully you're making some better

[45:07] decisions now.

[45:08] >> Yeah, exactly. Like

[45:11] if you don't know what's wrong, then how

[45:13] do you know what's right? And a lot of

[45:15] times people get taught that at an early

[45:17] age. Maybe some people have some great

[45:18] intuition. I didn't have that and I had

[45:21] to learn the hard way. But I think what

[45:24] is the most important part is like where

[45:25] do you go from there? Right? Do you

[45:27] continue making those same mistakes

[45:31] or do you take your failures and realize

[45:33] that hey, that was the not the right

[45:35] path. Now I want to get on the right

[45:37] path. And so ironically

[45:39] Dhar Mann's stories, for anyone that's

[45:41] ever seen one, it's all about an

[45:43] underdog who has the odds stacked

[45:44] against him.

[45:45] >> Right.

[45:46] >> And through failure and hardship that's

[45:50] where they learn these important lessons

[45:51] in order to become the person that they

[45:53] need to be to finally go and succeed.

[45:55] It's the hero's journey.

[45:57] And what's ironic is

[45:59] my own story

[46:01] is one of the best Dhar Mann stories

[46:05] because it's of a guy who failed over

[46:07] and over and over again.

[46:10] And eventually learned the lessons that

[46:12] he needed to learn in order to be

[46:14] successful.

[46:14] >> And how many times did you draw on those

[46:16] personal stories of yours as content for

[46:19] the videos of the hundreds and hundreds,

[46:22] thousands of content?

[46:23] >> Dozens and dozens of times. I

[46:26] just approved a story

[46:29] today that was based on my life

[46:31] experience.

[46:33] I can't remember the name offhand.

[46:35] That's again the three guys asleep.

[46:37] >> Okay, cuz it started with the title.

[46:39] >> started with the title.

[46:40] >> Yep.

[46:40] >> Yeah, I mean if I look at my notes, I'll

[46:42] find it, but um so much of my experience

[46:45] is what's inspired some of our best

[46:48] stories. And you know, what makes for a

[46:50] great story? The audience is able to see

[46:52] themselves through the characters that

[46:54] you build. And what makes something

[46:56] relatable? Well, if I've lived it,

[46:58] chances are a lot of people have also

[47:00] lived it or felt the way that I have.

[47:02] >> Yeah.

[47:02] >> So, the reason that our audience feels

[47:04] like our stories are so relatable is

[47:06] because it did come from real life.

[47:08] >> I know for me

[47:10] being able to share about mental health

[47:11] struggles that I've had,

[47:13] that's only part of my journey.

[47:16] >> Yeah.

[47:16] >> It's even a smallish part of my journey,

[47:18] but it's a very real part of my journey.

[47:20] >> Right.

[47:20] >> But that has meant so much

[47:22] >> Yeah.

[47:23] >> listeners and viewers and when I speak

[47:25] on college campuses,

[47:26] >> Right.

[47:26] >> they're like, "Holy [ __ ] This guy is a

[47:28] successful actor and TV and film and

[47:31] whatnot.

[47:31] >> Right.

[47:32] >> Um went through what I'm going through,

[47:34] went through depression, anxiety, OCD,

[47:37] you name it.

[47:38] >> Yeah.

[47:38] >> Like I kind of feel that's part of my

[47:41] that's become part of my purpose and my

[47:43] mission. It wasn't what I started,

[47:45] >> Yeah.

[47:45] >> but uh

[47:46] uh it has it has really meant a lot

[47:49] >> Wow.

[47:49] >> uh to folks. And I do think that

[47:51] >> Yeah.

[47:52] >> the

[47:54] you know, tests are described kind of in

[47:56] spiritual traditions as like

[47:58] the tree that's pruned the most is the

[48:00] one that blossoms the most, right? The

[48:03] The The ground that's tilled the most is

[48:06] the ground that becomes the most

[48:09] fertile. The gold that's burned the most

[48:13] becomes the most purified.

[48:15] But going through this process

[48:18] isn't about coming out on the other side

[48:22] injured, immune,

[48:24] and kind of like hyper strong and filled

[48:28] with willpower.

[48:30] Humility and vulnerability are part of

[48:33] the It's part of the gig, you know, it's

[48:35] part of the journey. And it's in real

[48:38] humility

[48:40] that compassion grows and you're able to

[48:42] have more compassion for other people,

[48:44] and I think that can positively impact

[48:47] your work. So for me, so many times

[48:50] getting my head hit against the

[48:52] sidewalk, whether it's in in failures,

[48:55] whether it's in show business, whether

[48:57] it's with addiction or what have you, is

[49:00] like get [ __ ] humble, man. Get

[49:03] [ __ ] humble. And out of that,

[49:06] there is It's a different kind of

[49:08] strength. It may not be the kind of

[49:10] strength you see portrayed

[49:12] in social media or in film, um but

[49:17] it's it's a wise, centered strength with

[49:20] a strong rudder underneath it.

[49:23] >> Wow, that was very beautifully said.

[49:26] >> Thanks, man.

[49:26] >> You can use that as a clip.

[49:28] >> Yeah, use that as a clip. All right.

[49:30] >> So you've spent years and years kind of

[49:33] honing your storytelling abilities,

[49:36] um and

[49:38] you're a kindness ambassador for the

[49:40] NFL. What the hell's that?

[49:42] >> [laughter]

[49:42] >> What's going on there?

[49:43] >> I'm the chief kindness officer for

[49:46] uh the 2026 Super Bowl, and now it's uh

[49:49] for the whole new 2026-2027 season.

[49:52] >> Wow, that's that sounds fun. Do you get

[49:55] like a badge or a hat or something at

[49:58] least?

[49:58] >> you get that. I got some custom shoes,

[50:00] but more importantly, you get the chance

[50:02] to really help change people's lives.

[50:05] Like, you know, for instance,

[50:07] um there was this boy who had lost his

[50:09] father, and the father, while he was on

[50:12] his deathbed, promised his son that

[50:14] before I pass, I'm going to take you to

[50:16] your first Super Bowl.

[50:18] Unfortunately, he never made it that

[50:20] far.

[50:20] >> Oh.

[50:20] >> And we heard about this story, and so we

[50:23] went and we surprised the son with

[50:25] tickets for him and his mom. And we

[50:27] said, "Just because your father couldn't

[50:29] deliver that promise, doesn't mean that

[50:30] your mother can't." And so both of them

[50:32] went, and it was this big emotional

[50:35] experience. Um so we've been able to

[50:37] bring stories like that to life.

[50:39] >> Uh and it's been a really special thing.

[50:41] >> That's beautiful.

[50:41] >> Yeah.

[50:42] >> You're not a 49ers fan, are you?

[50:44] >> Uh no, I'm a Rams fan.

[50:46] >> [laughter]

[50:46] >> Rams fan, oh.

[50:47] >> Yeah.

[50:48] >> I'm a Seahawks fan, so I'm really happy

[50:50] for that.

[50:50] >> Okay.

[50:51] >> kid.

[50:51] >> Yeah, well, you're a Seahawks fan. Wow,

[50:53] what a year for you.

[50:54] >> Yeah, yeah. Great year. And a Knicks

[50:56] fan, so

[50:57] come on.

[50:58] >> Wow, now I know why all these teams are

[51:00] winning.

[51:00] >> What a year. Exactly. I'm the I'm the

[51:02] common link. And let me go back to this

[51:04] other thing. So many themes in the

[51:06] stories that you tell are about

[51:07] kindness, about forgiveness, about

[51:09] compassion, underdog stories, about

[51:12] growing up, maturing, gaining wisdom,

[51:15] personal responsibility.

[51:17] I would view all of those as spiritual

[51:19] virtues and qualities. And as you know,

[51:21] my book Soul Boom, it's like why we need

[51:23] a spiritual revolution. So, is that what

[51:26] you're being a part of? And if so, what

[51:29] can we do to add to a spiritual

[51:32] revolution?

[51:34] >> You know, I think

[51:37] you first have to find yourself, then

[51:39] you can help others find themselves. And

[51:41] so all I'm trying to do is be better

[51:43] every single day, and then be an example

[51:46] for my children, be an example for my

[51:48] audience when I create content and

[51:50] embody that person that I'm trying to

[51:52] be. But I would say it really comes down

[51:54] to

[51:55] the classic golden rule. Do unto others

[51:58] as you want done to you.

[51:59] And I have seen this play out over and

[52:02] over in my life.

[52:04] >> Mhm.

[52:04] >> That the universe, whatever you put out

[52:07] into the world, always comes back to

[52:09] you. And so now, having gone through the

[52:11] mistakes that I've made in life, I

[52:13] believe in radical transparency and

[52:14] radical honesty. I'll give you an

[52:16] example. I found out from a network that

[52:19] they were sending us deposits

[52:22] uh for our viewership viewership and

[52:25] performance on their platform.

[52:27] But they had already prepaid and gave us

[52:30] a minimum guarantee.

[52:32] And so they weren't supposed to be

[52:33] sending these monthly payments. And so

[52:36] my accounting department asked me and

[52:37] they were just like, "Hey, what do we

[52:39] do? They prepaid us, but they're still

[52:41] paying us these payments."

[52:43] Immediately, I was like, "It Give it

[52:44] back. You have to tell them that you

[52:46] prepaid us."

[52:47] They caught the error, they figured out

[52:49] what happened, they were so thankful

[52:51] about it. That next season, when our

[52:54] contract expired, they tripled my

[52:56] contract.

[52:58] And

[52:59] I can't say it was because of that,

[53:01] >> Mhm.

[53:02] >> right? I'm surely It certainly helped

[53:04] build trust in their eyes, but also I

[53:06] just feel like that was God testing me

[53:08] to do the right thing. And because I did

[53:10] the right thing, it's coming back to me

[53:13] threefold or tenfold. And I feel like

[53:15] we're faced with opportunities like that

[53:17] all the time. Sometimes we can get

[53:19] discouraged because you are a good

[53:20] person and good things aren't happening

[53:22] to you.

[53:23] But it's only a matter of time. Just

[53:25] because it's not happening right now,

[53:27] doesn't mean that God isn't preparing

[53:29] you for something much better to come in

[53:31] the future. So

[53:33] >> Cuz that's what I was going to say.

[53:34] There might be people listening

[53:35] [clears throat] right now and they're

[53:35] like, "I always try and do the right

[53:37] thing and yet it never works out."

[53:39] >> Right.

[53:39] >> I keep getting doors slammed in my face.

[53:41] >> Right. But you never know when at any

[53:44] point in time

[53:45] >> Mhm.

[53:46] >> that phone call could come, that door

[53:48] could be knocked, that piece of video

[53:50] could

[53:51] go viral.

[53:51] >> thumbing on Facebook behind you and

[53:53] [laughter] you get that

[53:54] >> Exactly.

[53:54] >> that brilliant idea.

[53:55] >> You never know.

[53:56] >> Um

[53:58] we use the word soul a lot here and uh

[54:02] what does that word mean to you?

[54:06] >> I was looking at this quote and it said

[54:09] we are not

[54:10] humans having a spiritual experience. We

[54:13] are We're not human beings having a

[54:14] spiritual experience. We are spiritual

[54:16] beings having a human experience.

[54:20] And so I think it's just the

[54:22] energy

[54:25] that we carry within our bodies

[54:29] that

[54:31] go beyond like

[54:32] >> Mhm.

[54:33] >> you're probably better at answering this

[54:34] question, but I would just say

[54:37] yeah, I think of that quote.

[54:39] >> Mhm.

[54:39] It's one of my favorite quotes.

[54:42] >> Yeah.

[54:42] >> Father Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit

[54:44] priest.

[54:45] >> Yeah.

[54:45] >> has said that. It's I I always quote it

[54:47] and I think about it a lot because

[54:50] when I am a little bit lost and out of

[54:53] balance, when I remember that I'm a

[54:55] spiritual being having a human

[54:57] experience and by the way, Dar it's

[54:59] really hard to have a human experience.

[55:01] >> Yeah.

[55:02] Yeah.

[55:02] >> There's failings and difficulties and

[55:04] achy knees and digestive problems and

[55:08] people won't behave the way you want

[55:09] them to and

[55:11] dishwashers break, you know what I mean?

[55:13] Rent's tough to make. It's hard to be a

[55:15] human being, but when I remember I'm a

[55:17] spiritual being having a human

[55:18] experience um

[55:21] that helps

[55:21] >> makes the journey a little lighter.

[55:22] >> Yeah, absolutely.

[55:24] >> Yeah.

[55:24] >> Such a pleasure getting to know you.

[55:26] Thanks for coming on the show.

[55:27] >> amazing. I was not expecting such a

[55:29] wonderful conversation, so thank you.

[55:31] >> What's wrong with you?

[55:32] >> On my 3 4 hours of sleep, I wasn't sure

[55:33] I'd be able to perform. [laughter]

[55:35] >> You did great. You did great without any

[55:37] caffeine, might I add.

[55:38] >> Yeah. Well done.

[55:40] >> Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Yeah.

[55:43] >> Soul Boom is also on Spotify video. If

[55:44] you've got Spotify Premium, you can

[55:46] enjoy it free of Spotify ads. If you

[55:48] don't, you'll get even less ads if you

[55:50] hit subscribe to Soul Boom. Also, enjoy

[55:52] on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Pandora, or

[55:54] wherever else you get your stupid

[55:56] [music] podcasts.

Rainn Wilson
ArtistRainn Wilson

Actor and spiritual advocate best known for playing Dwight Schrute on 'The Office,' Wilson blends humor with deep exploration of meaning, purpose, and human connection through Soul…

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Failure-as-teacherRadical-accountabilityDhar-mannRainn-wilsonFaith-and-suffering

Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

Mann describes radical accountability as looking for the one common factor across every failure, which in his case was himself. He argues that if you keep blaming external causes like the economy, timing, or a partner, you never gain the ability to change the outcome. The practice is a diagnostic tool, not an exercise in guilt.
Mann said that by age thirty he had failed more than anyone he knew, so he reasoned that failure was the subject he understood best. That experience let him speak directly to people whose big goals had not worked out and help them avoid some of his mistakes. The superpower is the translation of failure into something useful for others.
In the conversation, a money-focused person tends to quit once attempts stop producing revenue, often after only a handful of tries. A mission-based person keeps going regardless of how many times something fails, because the mission itself is the reason. The talk argues that mission-based people are more likely to succeed over the long term.
Mann says his first video was about not giving up on your dreams, and he nearly quit while making it. He had never imagined himself on camera, and even a three-minute scripted video took hundreds of takes. He kept going, and the channel grew from that unlikely start.
Mann describes finding God through his failures and frames hardship as formative. His central line is that before God gives you the life you have been praying for, he shapes you into the person who can carry it. He presents this as a pattern he recognized in hindsight rather than a neat doctrinal answer.
Yes, Mann told Rainn Wilson that the biographies he read showed repeated failure before success. He cited Michael Jordan being cut from his high school basketball team, J.K. Rowling being rejected by publishers dozens of times before Harry Potter, and Walt Disney going bankrupt several times before building Disneyland.
The conversation describes a fear of looking foolish that stops people, especially younger creators, from trying things that might be laughed at online. The guests argue that success often requires tolerating that awkwardness. Viewers can find the full discussion in the cringe chapter of the episode.

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