Transcript
[0:00] I've had businesses collapse, I've had
[0:02] partnerships fail, I've had all kinds of
[0:04] problems happen to me.
[0:06] I am the common denominator. If I said,
[0:09] "Oh, it was a bad economy, it was bad
[0:10] timing, I ran out of money, it was a bad
[0:12] partnership, I was whatever it was." It
[0:14] was always a different reason,
[0:16] but there was one common denominator,
[0:18] and that was me.
[0:20] So, I realized if I didn't see myself as
[0:23] the problem, that I would [music] never
[0:25] see myself as the solution. So, from
[0:28] that point forward, I decided that I was
[0:30] going to take radical accountability for
[0:32] everything that happened in my life.
[0:33] Before God gives you the life that
[0:35] you've been praying for, he shapes you
[0:37] into the person that can actually carry
[0:40] it. Michael Jordan [music] got cut from
[0:42] his high school basketball team. J.K.
[0:43] Rowling couldn't get Harry Potter
[0:45] published, and she tried dozens of
[0:47] times. Walt Disney went bankrupt
[0:49] >> [music]
[0:49] >> so many times on his way to start
[0:51] Disneyland. I started to think about it,
[0:53] and I was like, "Well, what is
[0:56] my superpower?
[0:58] What is the one thing that I'm better at
[1:00] than anyone else that I can go and do?"
[1:03] And you know what that thing was?
[1:06] Failure.
[1:07] >> [laughter]
[1:11] [music]
[1:12] >> Hey there, it's me, Rainn Wilson, and I
[1:14] want to dig into the human experience. I
[1:16] want to have conversations about [music]
[1:17] a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep
[1:20] with our favorite thinkers, friends, and
[1:22] entertainers about life, meaning, and
[1:25] idiocy.
[1:26] Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast.
[1:34] A really quick thanks to our sponsors,
[1:36] ZipRecruiter, Nutrafol, Zocdoc, and
[1:38] Fetzer. Links and promo codes on screen
[1:41] and in the description. Enjoy the show.
[1:43] >> When you're money-focused,
[1:46] as soon as you don't make money, if you
[1:48] try something 99 times, you didn't make
[1:50] money, what are you going to do? You're
[1:52] not even going to get to 99. You're
[1:53] going to probably get to five. You're
[1:55] going to be like, "Man, I didn't make
[1:57] anything. I'm going to give up.
[1:59] Mhm.
[2:00] But if you're mission-based,
[2:03] it doesn't [clears throat]
[2:05] matter if you failed five times. It
[2:06] doesn't matter if you failed 10 times or
[2:07] 99 times or 1,000 times. That is your
[2:11] mission. And as any entrepreneur knows,
[2:14] success is not like this. It's not just
[2:16] a straight line up. It is you failed.
[2:19] You failed even worse. You failed so bad
[2:21] that you may not even ever get back up.
[2:24] You failed so much that everybody is
[2:26] judging you and thinks you're a fool.
[2:29] But you kept going. And you kept getting
[2:31] up, and you kept marching forward.
[2:33] That's what it takes, and only a
[2:34] mission-based person can get that far.
[2:38] So, that's the reason that anyone who is
[2:41] mission-based is far more likely to be
[2:43] successful, especially in the long term.
[2:45] And when you're entering any any
[2:47] birthday, but especially in your decade,
[2:50] you want to feel like your life is
[2:52] finally coming together. Like you
[2:54] probably remember when you entered your
[2:56] 20s. You probably remember when you
[2:57] entered your 30s or your 40s or your
[2:59] 50s. You're just in a new mindset. Even
[3:01] when I was 10 years old, I vividly
[3:03] remember what that birthday was like.
[3:05] And you And you feel like you want to
[3:06] have things figured out at 30.
[3:08] >> Kind of like, hey, okay, I made a lot of
[3:10] mistakes in my 20s. Now I'm in the
[3:12] saddle and ready to go.
[3:13] >> At 20, you want to feel like, oh, I'm
[3:14] starting to form like a social circle,
[3:17] and I'm starting to prepare for leaving
[3:19] college and maybe starting my career. At
[3:21] 30, you want to feel like your career is
[3:23] coming together. At 40, you want to feel
[3:24] like your family is coming together. At
[3:26] 50, you want to start to think about
[3:27] retirement or whatever it is.
[3:29] >> talk to me about 60, [ __ ] I
[3:31] just turned 60.
[3:33] >> Let's go.
[3:35] And still crushing it. Amazing. But
[3:37] yeah, Jeffrey Katzenberg always says
[3:40] that your dreams should be bigger than
[3:41] your memories. And so, that always
[3:44] inspires me to just like keep working
[3:46] hard and pushing forward.
[3:47] >> All right.
[3:48] >> So, I enter my 30s. I'm at the lowest
[3:50] point in my life.
[3:52] Definitely not where I imagined. I'm
[3:53] going through a bad breakup, I'm broke,
[3:56] I'm depressed, I'm having family
[3:58] problems, I'm having reputation
[4:00] problems, and I'm 2 weeks away from
[4:03] getting evicted from my apartment.
[4:06] So, all the dreams that I had in my
[4:08] life, I was someone that was going to go
[4:10] somewhere, that was going to be
[4:11] something.
[4:12] >> I was successful in high school.
[4:14] >> Exactly.
[4:15] I was now the guy
[4:18] >> I had a Cadillac I had a Lamborghini at
[4:20] 21 years old. Well, again, I was like
[4:22] making money but I was spending it fast.
[4:24] I was just living for the moment.
[4:26] And trying to do whatever it could that
[4:28] attracted people in my life, which I
[4:30] didn't realize was for the wrong reasons
[4:32] until later.
[4:33] But anyway, so I turned 30 years old
[4:36] and now this is the third major failure
[4:39] that I've had in my life. I've had
[4:41] businesses collapse, I've had
[4:43] partnerships fail, I've had all kinds of
[4:45] problems happen to me.
[4:47] And so I started thinking about it and I
[4:49] was like
[4:51] I am the common denominator.
[4:54] Every single one of those times, like in
[4:56] the beginning if I said, "Oh, it was a
[4:57] bad economy, it was bad timing, I ran
[4:59] out of money, it was a bad partnership,
[5:01] I was whatever it was." It was always a
[5:03] different reason.
[5:04] But there was one common denominator.
[5:07] And that was me.
[5:08] And so I realized that
[5:10] if I didn't see myself as the problem,
[5:13] that I would never see myself as the
[5:16] solution.
[5:17] So, from that point forward, I decided
[5:19] that I was going to take radical
[5:20] accountability for everything that
[5:22] happened in my life.
[5:23] So, I had started to get into the right
[5:25] mindset, but I didn't really have
[5:27] direction. What was I going to do?
[5:29] So, I started reading books.
[5:32] And again, I was feeling so embarrassed
[5:35] about where I was in my life. I was
[5:36] still feeling somewhat hopeless.
[5:39] And the one thing that I discovered is
[5:41] as I was reading stories about
[5:43] successful people,
[5:46] I was shocked to find how all of them,
[5:49] every single person I read about, had
[5:51] encountered massive failure on their way
[5:54] to success. And so I read stories about
[5:56] how Michael Jordan got cut from his high
[5:58] school basketball team, but went on to
[6:00] become one of the greatest athletes of
[6:02] all time. Or J.K. J.K. Rowling couldn't
[6:04] get Harry Potter published and she tried
[6:06] dozens of times. Or how Walt Disney went
[6:09] bankrupt so many times on his way to
[6:11] start Disneyland. And I was like, "Huh,
[6:14] if all of these very successful people
[6:18] failed all these times on their way to
[6:20] success,
[6:22] then maybe my story could be the same.
[6:24] Maybe failure was not my story. It was
[6:29] not my whole book. Maybe it was just a
[6:30] chapter or in my case several chapters
[6:34] of my book. And that this was all
[6:36] somehow preparing me for something
[6:39] greater."
[6:41] So, I started to think about it and I
[6:43] was like, "Well, what is
[6:46] my superpower?
[6:47] What is the one thing that I'm better at
[6:50] than anyone else that I can go and do?"
[6:53] And you know what that thing was?
[6:55] Failure.
[6:57] >> [laughter]
[6:58] >> I had failed more at 30 years old than
[7:02] anyone I knew.
[7:05] And so I was like, "If I'm a subject
[7:06] matter on one thing, I can talk about
[7:09] failure." And as I started to think
[7:11] about it, I was like, "There's so many
[7:13] people out there that feel like their
[7:15] life is not where they want it to be.
[7:17] That feel like they had big dreams and
[7:19] goals that never quite worked out."
[7:23] I could connect with that person.
[7:26] I could let that person know that
[7:27] they're not alone.
[7:29] And I could also
[7:32] talk about how I failed, why I failed to
[7:34] help them learn from my mistakes so
[7:36] maybe they could avoid making some of
[7:38] those on their own. And [clears throat]
[7:40] so I started talking on camera.
[7:43] And just talking about my life and
[7:45] giving advice.
[7:46] >> And were these part of the first 99
[7:48] videos?
[7:49] >> This was the first video I ever put out
[7:50] was about not giving up on your dreams.
[7:53] And it's a good thing because I wanted
[7:56] to give up so many times while I was
[7:58] making that video.
[7:59] >> Mhm.
[8:00] >> For anyone that's thinking about making
[8:01] content, it's so hard to go in front of
[8:05] camera. I mean, unless you're some
[8:06] prodigy and you were meant for camera,
[8:08] for me it was the opposite of that. I
[8:10] never imagined myself on camera. So,
[8:13] even though it was just like 3 minutes
[8:15] and I all my lines were scripted,
[8:18] I took me probably
[8:20] hundreds of takes in order to say that.
[8:23] My girlfriend at the time, now my wife,
[8:25] kept saying, "Just be yourself." That's
[8:27] the hardest thing to do on camera.
[8:30] Especially if you don't know who
[8:32] yourself is, like me, cuz I was still
[8:34] struggling to find myself in all of
[8:36] this.
[8:36] >> Yeah.
[8:37] >> So,
[8:37] >> And and by the way, I just want to say
[8:39] that as an actor,
[8:40] >> Yeah.
[8:41] >> when you're given the direction to like,
[8:42] "Just be yourself more as a character."
[8:45] It's one of the hardest things
[8:46] >> Right.
[8:46] >> to do. Yeah. It's like people like one
[8:48] of my favorite actors of all time is
[8:51] Brad Pitt.
[8:52] Because you wouldn't think of like him
[8:54] having this huge hugely wide range.
[8:57] Right. But his ability
[8:59] to be himself and bring himself to those
[9:01] roles and all of the nuance and you can
[9:04] see him thinking, see him feeling, and
[9:07] yet each character is really distinct.
[9:10] Uh is so hard to do and he makes it look
[9:13] so easy.
[9:14] >> Yeah, agreed.
[9:16] And so, you know, when I recorded my
[9:18] first video, I really hesitated to put
[9:19] it out. And the same doubts that a lot
[9:22] of us face, what if no one watches it?
[9:25] What if people think I'm cringe?
[9:27] And then I realized that, you know what?
[9:30] Because again, I'm a mission I'm doing
[9:31] this for the cause, not the applause.
[9:34] Even if one person watches my videos and
[9:38] has a better day because of it, then
[9:40] it's worthwhile for me to put this video
[9:42] out. [clears throat]
[9:42] >> Mhm.
[9:43] >> I posted on May 29th, 2018, my birthday,
[9:47] and it's a good thing I had that mindset
[9:49] because only one person [laughter] did
[9:51] watch my video.
[9:53] >> My mother-in-law.
[9:54] >> Yeah.
[9:55] >> I kept I kept refreshing and refreshing
[9:57] thinking that
[9:58] >> like one, one, one.
[9:59] >> Yeah. You know, you try to you try to
[10:01] break a comma. That's like when you're
[10:03] starting out as a creator, that's the
[10:05] biggest thing if you get a comma in the
[10:06] numbers, which is like 1,000, but I
[10:09] couldn't even break like 10. And I would
[10:12] then I would start asking like, "Hey,
[10:14] can you share these videos?" I'd start
[10:17] reaching out to people, right? Um and
[10:19] nobody would watch those. And so for a
[10:21] long time, I was just putting out videos
[10:23] trying to give advice. And then my wife
[10:25] one day told me, she was like, "Don't
[10:27] tell people, show people."
[10:30] I was like, "Huh, that's interesting."
[10:32] So instead of telling advice, I would
[10:34] start storytelling.
[10:36] And I would describe a story that
[10:37] happened to me with a moral lesson, or
[10:40] just story like the fables that we know,
[10:42] like the tortoise and the hare, for
[10:44] instance. I would share story and then I
[10:46] would give a moral at the end. And then
[10:49] once I realized that, I would actually I
[10:51] found this like cheap company that did
[10:53] illustrations or 2D animations that
[10:55] maybe charged like 100 bucks a pop.
[10:57] >> Yeah.
[10:58] >> And I would put in these animations
[11:00] inner-cut into my video, so now you're
[11:02] actually visually seeing the story play
[11:04] out. Well, before I couldn't break 100
[11:06] views when I was giving advice. When I
[11:08] was storytelling, I couldn't break 1,000
[11:10] views. Once I put the animations in, now
[11:12] I was getting to like 5,000 views. So it
[11:14] was like, "I'm on the right track. I'm
[11:16] on the right track." And you know, at
[11:18] that time, I wasn't spending anything on
[11:19] my videos cuz I didn't really have
[11:20] money. I was I was like a one-person
[11:23] team, right? Like I would stay up with
[11:25] my wife and we'd like ideate and we'd
[11:27] edit, we'd learn how to do everything
[11:29] ourselves. I had one team member that,
[11:32] you know, I was like barely affording
[11:34] and he just sort of believed in the
[11:36] mission for some reason. We were
[11:37] shooting everything out of my small
[11:39] little studio apartment. My studio was
[11:41] literally a studio apartment that was
[11:42] like 600 sq. ft.
[11:44] And we shot everything on iPhones, you
[11:46] know, did it as scrappy as possible.
[11:49] And it's a good thing because imagine if
[11:50] my inexperience is what made me
[11:52] successful because imagine if I thought
[11:54] as a traditional filmmaker and I was
[11:56] like, oh, I got to have this big fancy
[11:59] setup and all these locations and I
[12:02] would have went out to banks and try to
[12:03] get loans and use credit card debt. I
[12:05] would have spent all my money on one
[12:07] video. It wouldn't have worked and then
[12:09] I would have failed and I would spend
[12:10] the next 10 years trying to pay off that
[12:12] debt. But because I didn't have
[12:13] resources, I didn't have knowledge of
[12:14] how it's supposed to be done, I was just
[12:16] shooting in my apartment on an iPhone.
[12:19] And so, I was putting out video after
[12:21] video after video.
[12:23] It wasn't working and even though, you
[12:25] know, it was mission based, I was more
[12:26] so mission based about trying to inspire
[12:28] people, not so the format in which I did
[12:30] it. And so, I started getting
[12:32] discouraged cuz again, I was not
[12:34] sleeping. I was working all day for like
[12:37] a regular job and then at night I was
[12:38] creating content. I wasn't spending time
[12:40] with my wife, wasn't socializing, wasn't
[12:42] going to the gym. And so, I was like,
[12:44] babe, like I don't know if this is for
[12:46] me.
[12:47] Like maybe I just have to find another
[12:49] way. Maybe I'll write a book or
[12:50] something and she goes, no, you've
[12:51] worked so hard on this. I really believe
[12:53] in you. Keep going. It's amazing how
[12:55] it's always like that one person, you
[12:57] know, and and a lot of times it might be
[13:00] like a friend, it might be, you know,
[13:01] teacher, it might be your partner,
[13:04] um but she really
[13:05] kept going and believing in me. So, I
[13:08] kept making videos, kept making videos
[13:09] and then I got to my 99th video.
[13:12] And I was like, all right, you know,
[13:13] I've put out 99 videos now. Like,
[13:17] please, let me give up and try something
[13:19] else instead.
[13:21] And she didn't want to agree to that,
[13:22] but you know, she saw how hard I was
[13:24] working and and how miserable I was
[13:26] making myself. So, she goes, okay, well,
[13:28] whatever you want to do." So, I decided
[13:29] I'm going to make my last video.
[13:32] And at this time, I used to write my
[13:34] scripts on napkins at that time. My
[13:36] scripts were just basically what I was
[13:37] going to say to camera, cuz everything
[13:39] was just me talking to camera with some
[13:41] animations tied in.
[13:43] And everything was a life lesson, right?
[13:45] So, this lesson I wanted to talk about
[13:47] was on infidelity, and how about
[13:49] infidelity could start with seemingly
[13:51] innocent acts.
[13:53] And the idea I was coming up with in my
[13:56] head was there's this husband who's
[13:59] scrolling Facebook while his wife is
[14:02] cooking him dinner and has her back
[14:04] towards him, and he stumbles upon his
[14:07] ex's post.
[14:09] And he's debating if he should like it
[14:11] or not.
[14:12] And the story's going to go into if he
[14:13] likes it, then that kind of turns into a
[14:14] comment, then that turns into a message,
[14:16] then that turns into coffee. It starts
[14:19] to snowball, and one seemingly innocent
[14:20] act can lead to the next. As I'm writing
[14:23] this,
[14:24] I happen to look over in my kitchen, and
[14:27] my brother-in-law is visiting, and he's
[14:29] scrolling on his phone on Facebook.
[14:33] And my wife's friend is cooking
[14:35] something in the kitchen with her back
[14:38] towards him.
[14:39] And I suddenly had this lightbulb
[14:41] moment.
[14:43] What if I had them as actors on the
[14:46] screen while I narrated the story? So, I
[14:50] go to them, and I'm like, "Guys, would
[14:52] you be okay with being in a video?"
[14:54] And they're like, "Well, what do we have
[14:56] to do?"
[14:58] In hindsight, I probably should have
[15:00] told him that I was going to portray him
[15:01] as a cheater,
[15:03] but I never thought that.
[15:04] I was like, "Only 10 people are going to
[15:05] watch this. It's not going to matter,
[15:07] right?"
[15:11] So, I'm like, "Just stand there. You
[15:12] keep scrolling your phone. You keep
[15:13] cooking." And I started recording the
[15:16] camera, and I started voiceovering it
[15:18] with me on camera. You could see me
[15:20] talking, and the situation's playing
[15:22] out.
[15:24] I finish that video. I schedule it to go
[15:26] live the next morning
[15:28] at 8:00 at 6:00 a.m.
[15:31] I wake up at 7:00 a.m. with my wife
[15:33] shaking me. She's like, "Darrel, Darrel,
[15:35] wake up." I was like, "What's going on?"
[15:37] She's like, "That video that you posted,
[15:40] it's going viral."
[15:42] And I was like, "What are you talking
[15:43] about?"
[15:44] That video went on to get 250
[15:49] million views.
[15:52] >> Woah.
[15:53] >> The last video that I ever planned on
[15:56] posting was the one was the one that
[15:59] went viral.
[16:00] >> Oh.
[16:00] >> And so, you know, the moral of the story
[16:02] is like, you never know how close you
[16:05] are to success. You literally could be
[16:08] one door, one phone call, one piece of
[16:12] content away, and you'll never know
[16:15] unless you keep going. Because what
[16:17] keeps me up at night is what if I gave
[16:19] up on video number 99?
[16:21] >> Mhm. Mhm.
[16:22] >> I certainly wouldn't be here.
[16:23] >> I know kids these days are all about
[16:25] looksmaxing, but when you get to a
[16:27] certain age, it's all about timemaxing.
[16:30] You know what I mean. How can I claw
[16:32] back 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there
[16:34] before the inexorable march of time
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[18:36] Thank you.
[18:37] >> A couple things come to mind. One is
[18:40] I'm so glad you moved away from the
[18:41] advice thing. One of the things I see
[18:43] happening on social media is people feel
[18:46] like
[18:47] in order, you know, they have a uh
[18:51] a hero, like
[18:52] Steven Bartlett from Diary of a CEO,
[18:54] let's say. Brilliant guy.
[18:57] And they're and they're like, "I want to
[18:58] be the next Steven Bartlett. So, I need
[19:00] to give advice." Right.
[19:02] You know, and and listen, I want to hear
[19:05] advice, but I want to hear advice from
[19:06] people that have been through it, you
[19:09] know? I that have read a thousand books,
[19:12] that have started and failed, that have
[19:14] struggled, that are like Dr. Gabor Mate,
[19:18] you know, worked on the streets with
[19:20] addicts and the mentally ill for decades
[19:23] and he's talking about you know, mental
[19:25] health, how it works in your brain,
[19:27] trauma, like that's who I want I don't
[19:30] want to hear advice from a 27-year-old,
[19:33] no matter how smart they are. But
[19:35] figuring out ways to
[19:38] what you did there was so genius to
[19:39] figure out how to take you're still
[19:42] giving advice, but when it's framed in
[19:45] story,
[19:46] your show, don't tell scenario,
[19:50] that's what people respond to and that
[19:51] has been the recipe for success for Dhar
[19:54] Mann Studios.
[19:55] >> Yeah, to your point, like the best
[19:57] business advice I could give is don't
[20:00] fall into the trap of paying for online
[20:03] mentors to teach you lessons.
[20:07] Because if they were so great at
[20:09] whatever it is that they're doing, the
[20:11] business they're building, whether it's
[20:12] drop shipping or crypto or AI or
[20:15] whatever it is, they would just use all
[20:17] that knowledge for themselves. And more
[20:20] importantly, you are paying someone who
[20:23] is also training your competition.
[20:27] You are not the only one student that
[20:29] they have. They are trying to get as
[20:30] many students as possible and maybe even
[20:32] trying to make you an affiliate to help
[20:34] them get more students. So, you're going
[20:36] into a business that is creating an
[20:39] indefinite more amount of competition.
[20:42] >> Yeah.
[20:43] >> Does it ever make sense to be the
[20:44] thousandth coffee store in a
[20:46] neighborhood? No, it doesn't.
[20:48] >> reminds me of this school we used to
[20:50] work with in Haiti and they decided to
[20:52] do vocational training and they're like,
[20:54] "Oh, they need welders. We always need
[20:57] welders in Haiti. We'll offer welding
[20:59] classes." So, they trained dozens of
[21:01] young men to be welders. Well, they
[21:03] didn't think it through because all
[21:04] these dozens of young men lived within a
[21:07] mile or two of the school.
[21:08] >> Right.
[21:09] >> And now all of them wanted to be welders
[21:11] and started welding businesses and they
[21:13] were at each other's throats and there
[21:15] were fights breaking out and there was
[21:17] kind of the worst kind of competition.
[21:20] But in a way, even though that's, you
[21:22] know, the uh
[21:24] you know, impoverished country of Haiti
[21:26] that still holds true for for something
[21:29] like that. That's That's well said.
[21:32] >> When you were at this nadir, when you
[21:34] were at your low at 30 and you're like,
[21:37] "Wow, I've failed so many times. Maybe I
[21:40] can turn
[21:41] the wisdom that I gained through
[21:43] failure." And I loved what you said
[21:45] about that because it's true.
[21:47] Everyone successful I know has
[21:50] really fallen on their face and [ __ ]
[21:53] up big time uh countless times.
[21:57] Um
[21:59] Where did God start to become a presence
[22:02] in your life? When did prayer, when did
[22:04] meditation Cuz you talk about it a lot
[22:06] now.
[22:07] >> Right.
[22:07] >> Was that with you then or is that
[22:10] something you gained later on in
[22:12] building the studio?
[22:13] >> Yeah. So I'm happy to answer this
[22:14] question. When God is preparing you for
[22:16] more, he rarely begins with comfort. He
[22:20] stretches your patience, removes
[22:21] distractions, and takes you through
[22:23] seasons of failure that you don't
[22:25] understand. But it's not to punish you.
[22:28] It's to prepare you because silence
[22:31] teaches you to hear him. Struggle
[22:33] reveals your strength. And uncertainty
[22:36] builds your faith. Before God gives you
[22:39] the life that you've been praying for,
[22:41] he shapes you into the person that can
[22:43] actually carry it. So don't mistake this
[22:46] difficult season as rejection.
[22:48] It's just preparation.
[22:51] >> When did God start playing this role in
[22:53] your life? When did your understanding
[22:55] of your higher power
[22:57] start to act in your life in this way
[23:00] with that kind of wisdom?
[23:02] >> It It really is at your lowest point in
[23:05] life. I know we're all running from rock
[23:07] bottom and nobody wants to be there or
[23:10] stay there, but that truly is when you
[23:12] get the most inspiration and start to
[23:15] shape into the person that you need to
[23:17] be in order to succeed.
[23:19] If I kept succeeding at all the
[23:21] different things that I was doing, I
[23:23] would have always just been chasing
[23:24] money, I would have never found purpose,
[23:26] I would have never met the love of my
[23:28] life, I would have never had the
[23:31] beautiful children that I have. My life
[23:33] would not have been where it is today.
[23:34] And if you look at any sort of hard
[23:36] decision in your life, you might have
[23:37] been rejected from the roles, you might
[23:40] have had a relationship go wrong, you
[23:42] might have had a previous book or
[23:45] business flop. But ultimately, if it
[23:47] wasn't for that,
[23:49] you wouldn't have gotten the role on The
[23:51] Office,
[23:52] right? You wouldn't have started this
[23:53] podcast or met your your spouse. I don't
[23:56] know if you're if you're married or not,
[23:58] right? So, you have to go through these
[24:00] hard times in order to become the person
[24:04] that you're meant to be.
[24:06] And what's really interesting, so going
[24:07] back to my story
[24:09] of being bullied all the time,
[24:11] you know, when I was growing up, so a
[24:13] lot of those people that used to bully
[24:15] me for not fitting in or for being a
[24:17] loser or an outcast,
[24:20] now a lot of them are trying to be
[24:22] friends with me.
[24:24] And it's funny how it goes. And you
[24:25] know, one of my favorite quotes
[24:28] is that God will put you back together
[24:32] in front of those that broke you.
[24:36] And so, while we're
[24:38] sometimes so humiliated about our
[24:40] mistakes and people judging us, somehow
[24:43] we learn the lessons that we need to
[24:45] learn during those difficult times
[24:48] and it helps build us into this
[24:50] stronger, better version of our self.
[24:54] And it happens right in front of those
[24:56] that try to destroy us.
[24:58] And so how I see it is it's similar to
[25:01] when you lift weights and you destroy
[25:02] your muscle, that's essentially what
[25:03] you're doing. It comes back stronger as
[25:06] long as you're following the diet,
[25:08] right? As long as you're trying to get
[25:09] better. I look at failures as lessons
[25:12] that I need to learn, right? I don't
[25:14] just see the burden, I see the blessing.
[25:16] And what's interesting is that I've
[25:19] learned that God always answers prayers.
[25:21] The reason that we feel like sometimes
[25:23] he doesn't is because it's not always in
[25:25] the form that we look for.
[25:27] Because the
[25:29] blessing always comes after the burden.
[25:32] For instance, if I was to ask for
[25:33] strength,
[25:35] would I certainly be given like huge
[25:37] biceps?
[25:39] No, that's not how it works. I would be
[25:41] given situations that are tough that I
[25:44] would have to overcome that would make
[25:46] me stronger. And if I was to ask for
[25:49] courage,
[25:50] would I suddenly become courageous? No,
[25:52] I would have to be in hard situations on
[25:55] certain situations that God knows I'm
[25:58] capable of overcoming cuz they don't
[26:00] give you more burden than that he knows
[26:02] that you're capable of handling. And on
[26:03] the other side of that is where I
[26:05] develop courage. And similarly, if I was
[26:08] to pray for help me feel closer to my
[26:10] family,
[26:12] would I suddenly have these warm fuzzy
[26:14] feelings all over my body and feel close
[26:16] to them? No, I would actually be given
[26:19] hard situations with my family that
[26:22] would test our ability to overcome them.
[26:25] And when you overcome those situations
[26:27] is really when your actual family comes
[26:29] together and you feel. So, God always
[26:32] answers prayers, it's just the blessing
[26:35] always comes after the burden.
[26:36] >> That is so well said. I've never heard
[26:38] it said that way before and
[26:41] what a beautiful metaphor. Like if you
[26:44] pray for strength,
[26:45] God is going to somehow or other in your
[26:48] path metaphorically drop a bunch of
[26:50] resistance bands
[26:52] and dumbbells
[26:54] somewhere in your life that you're going
[26:56] to have to
[26:57] work [snorts]
[26:58] through somehow and you will come out
[27:01] with the blessing on the other side of
[27:04] the test.
[27:05] It's interesting. I'm
[27:07] writing a book right now on the meaning
[27:10] of life and uh
[27:13] one of the chapters I'm just
[27:15] trying to finish up is on is on
[27:17] suffering. And the nature of suffering
[27:19] and why there is suffering.
[27:21] And
[27:23] you know, the only reason that I can
[27:24] come up for why there is suffering in
[27:27] this world and I spoke about it with the
[27:29] author David Bentley Hart um
[27:32] and is
[27:35] it is through tests and difficulties
[27:38] that our soul grows and we're here in
[27:40] this physical world.
[27:42] It's a soul growing machine and it's
[27:45] working on our hearts and our souls and
[27:48] our spirits to make them ever stronger.
[27:50] And unfortunately, it is the nature of
[27:53] this physical plane to present us with
[27:56] change,
[27:57] >> [snorts]
[27:58] >> with disaster, natural disasters, with
[28:01] accidents, with cancers and diseases,
[28:04] with hardship, with a an ever ongoing
[28:08] struggle between ourselves and our egos.
[28:11] This is the nature of the world. The
[28:12] Buddha got it right, you know, life is
[28:14] suffering. And
[28:17] hopefully you come out on the other side
[28:19] with some measure of gratitude and
[28:21] perspective and wisdom having looked
[28:24] back
[28:25] at those resistance bands.
[28:27] >> Without darkness, there wouldn't be
[28:29] light. Without sadness, there wouldn't
[28:31] be happiness. And without hate, there
[28:33] wouldn't be love.
[28:35] >> But if you were growing up with a kind
[28:38] of a a cultural and a patriarchal
[28:42] view that a man's role is to make money
[28:45] where did you gain this experience of
[28:48] God that guided you?
[28:50] >> Yeah, failure. I mean, you know, if
[28:52] again, if I had not
[28:53] >> on your knees praying or did you go to a
[28:55] church? Did you Is there a certain book
[28:57] you read? What gave you that idea of a
[29:00] higher power?
[29:00] >> I specifically remember
[29:03] there was one night
[29:05] that I prayed so hard and I prayed so
[29:10] long for God to help me climb out of
[29:13] this hole I was in that I was literally
[29:16] crying and crying for hours. Like that's
[29:19] how hard I had prayed. I was going in
[29:21] the temple every single day. I was
[29:23] praying every single night. I was asking
[29:25] God for light and direction. It didn't
[29:27] happen by accident. It goes back to what
[29:30] I was saying earlier that
[29:31] people say that you get lucky
[29:34] but it's not luck. It's You can see the
[29:37] blessings, but you don't see all the
[29:39] nights that I spent praying.
[29:41] You can see all the open doors, but you
[29:43] don't see the closed doors that I was
[29:45] asking God for direction. You could see
[29:47] the outcome, but you don't see all the
[29:49] seasons that God helped hold me together
[29:51] during those tough times. So,
[29:54] luck doesn't give you
[29:57] protection, redirection, or help hold
[29:59] you together. Only God does.
[30:02] And so, it's not luck.
[30:05] It's
[30:06] >> I love that. That was really well said.
[30:10] What or who is God to you?
[30:14] >> I don't see God as
[30:19] it is this one
[30:21] person or being or
[30:24] you know, you have to pray to the north
[30:26] and ring the bell to the south and you
[30:29] have to do this five times a day, right?
[30:31] Like I am more of a spiritual person
[30:34] that just believes that there is a
[30:36] higher power and that really every
[30:37] pathway
[30:39] is a pathway to get there. Like I think
[30:42] I respect and I love every religion.
[30:45] Um my wife is Catholic. She's Hispanic
[30:48] and I am Indian Sikh. We raise our
[30:52] daughters to be aware of like both
[30:54] religions and I want them to learn about
[30:56] all the different religions and see what
[30:58] kind of speaks to them.
[31:00] So to me, I'm very like open-minded in
[31:03] that sense. I just know that we're not
[31:05] here by accident. Just kind of going
[31:08] back to our conversation earlier that
[31:10] there if you look at anything, like how
[31:13] was this table made? Okay, well with
[31:15] wood. Well, how was wood made? Okay,
[31:17] with a tree. Well, how was tree made?
[31:18] Through a seed. How was that seed made?
[31:20] You just go how was this? How was You
[31:22] just go why why why why how how how how?
[31:25] You eventually run out of an
[31:26] explanation.
[31:29] At some point in time,
[31:31] you won't be able to say why except for
[31:34] God.
[31:36] And so to me, that's the greatest proof
[31:37] of all of that God is behind all this.
[31:41] >> I think the acorn metaphor God gave us
[31:45] possibly the the greatest metaphor that
[31:48] exists and this is goes along
[31:50] >> Yeah.
[31:50] >> with what you're saying is that you can
[31:52] hold up an acorn and you can show a
[31:53] child and you can be like
[31:55] do you see that tree that's 300 ft tall?
[31:58] Like it's going to come it came out of
[32:01] this.
[32:02] >> Yeah.
[32:03] >> How did that become that?
[32:05] >> Right.
[32:06] >> Potential.
[32:07] >> And to talk about
[32:09] you know, balance like you were saying,
[32:11] like one tree can make a million matches
[32:14] and one match can burn down a million
[32:16] trees.
[32:17] >> Ooh. That's good, too.
[32:19] >> Yeah.
[32:21] >> A lot of nuggets.
[32:22] >> [laughter]
[32:22] >> A lot of nuggets with Dhar Mann.
[32:25] Um this is sidebar, but I it's it's on
[32:28] my mind because I had a conversation
[32:29] with my son who's 21 about it. This You
[32:32] used a long time ago now, like 20
[32:33] minutes ago, you used the word cringe.
[32:35] >> Mhm.
[32:36] >> You know, are people going to find my
[32:37] videos cringe? Yeah. And this word has a
[32:41] very special meaning for folks,
[32:43] teenagers, and folks in their 20s
[32:44] especially.
[32:46] And my son always uses it. He's like, I
[32:49] don't want to do that cuz it's cringe or
[32:51] people might think it's cringe. They
[32:52] might think I'm creepy.
[32:54] And it's this generation that's grown up
[32:57] with phones and cameras and
[32:58] documentation and social media
[33:00] everywhere where
[33:02] they are afraid to fail in such a way
[33:07] that it will be documented and they will
[33:09] be humiliated. Right at the time, 14,
[33:12] 15, 16, 17, when you care what other
[33:15] people think more than anything else.
[33:17] Like you cared about the people in your
[33:18] school as you were driving them home
[33:21] after parties in your in your Cadillac.
[33:23] That's when kids are pointing phones at
[33:26] each other more than ever. I heard this
[33:30] kind of sociologist talk about the fact
[33:32] that young people aren't dancing as much
[33:35] anymore. They're not dancing with each
[33:37] other. It's hard to find people dancing
[33:39] or working on that except in like a
[33:41] dance studio.
[33:43] Just coming together and dances and and
[33:46] being silly and dancing. And it's
[33:48] interesting, too, when you Have you ever
[33:49] gone to look at video footage of high
[33:52] school kids in the 90s?
[33:54] They have this on YouTube a lot. They're
[33:56] so un-self-conscious.
[33:57] There's someone bringing a camcorder, a
[33:59] big cheap, you know, JVC camcorder into
[34:02] into school and kids are just like goofy
[34:05] and sweaty and falling down and trying
[34:07] to do cartwheels and falling on their
[34:09] asses and and and now there's so much
[34:13] less risk being taken because they don't
[34:16] want to be humiliated. They're not
[34:19] dancing cuz they don't want someone to
[34:20] film and for them to look stupid and for
[34:22] that to get passed around or put on
[34:24] TikTok and they look like idiots. So
[34:27] it's created this cringe kind of
[34:30] infection
[34:31] that for a generation is pre- preventing
[34:34] them from making mistakes and trying
[34:38] things and falling on their asses
[34:41] because you know, for there might be a
[34:43] 17-year-old listening right now who
[34:45] wants to have a YouTube channel, but
[34:47] they're afraid to fail in that same way
[34:50] that you did at 30
[34:52] and their friends all laughing at them
[34:54] or making comments in the comment bar.
[34:56] So, how do we fight cringe?
[35:01] >> Well, why does cringe exist in the first
[35:03] place? It actually wasn't because of
[35:05] phones.
[35:07] It wasn't because of social media.
[35:10] It's because of one word.
[35:12] >> Mhm.
[35:13] >> Comments.
[35:16] Like if you think about why young people
[35:18] like Snapchat so much, you can't see
[35:21] what other people are commenting. It's
[35:23] all direct message that goes directly to
[35:25] the person. So, people are a lot more
[35:27] comfortable taking snaps
[35:30] of themselves versus actually posting
[35:32] something on Instagram. The daily
[35:34] activity there is way higher and when I
[35:36] meet young people, they often want to
[35:37] post a picture on Snapchat now.
[35:40] So,
[35:41] back in the day, if someone was to
[35:43] create a video on one of those
[35:45] camcorders, like you might have, you
[35:47] know,
[35:48] your uncle's going to see it, you know,
[35:50] on the VHS like when they're watching
[35:51] the cassette back or something, but
[35:53] you're not going to be able to see all
[35:55] these strangers that are commenting with
[35:57] their different thoughts.
[35:58] But what's interesting is
[36:00] because of the fear of being cringe,
[36:03] it's removed our ability to take
[36:05] chances.
[36:07] And so,
[36:08] a lot of people want to start a
[36:09] business. You're worried of failing
[36:11] because people are going to think your
[36:12] idea is cringe. People might want to
[36:14] write a book. They might want to be an
[36:16] artist. They might want to put out
[36:17] content, but now we have this
[36:19] ever-growing fear of what are people
[36:21] going to think? And it's not just in our
[36:23] close community. It's actually all
[36:26] across the world now because even if
[36:29] you're not trying to be in social media,
[36:31] you certainly can be. How many videos do
[36:33] we watch of just a random stranger that
[36:35] happened to be doing something that went
[36:36] viral? And a lot of people will call
[36:38] that person cringe, or that person can
[36:40] become famous. But here is what you have
[36:42] to remember
[36:43] is that success is on the other side of
[36:46] cringe. Because cringe is really just
[36:48] being able to take a chance. That's all
[36:49] it is.
[36:50] And what's more interesting is the more
[36:52] successful you get, the cringier you
[36:55] are.
[36:57] Because take me for example. I have 170
[36:59] million followers. I get 1.5 billion
[37:02] views per month.
[37:05] >> Woah.
[37:05] >> Do you know how many people
[37:08] are there watching because they think
[37:09] it's cringe? Or how many people must not
[37:12] like my videos because I've that big of
[37:14] an audience?
[37:15] Right? It's like you could become
[37:17] president of the world if even less than
[37:19] half the president of the United States
[37:20] if even less even less than 50% of the
[37:23] population likes you.
[37:25] >> Yeah.
[37:25] >> Right? So, I would say like it's really
[37:28] just think of cringe as your comfort
[37:29] zone, and you have to get out of your
[37:31] comfort zone in order to be successful.
[37:33] Easier said than done, and easier said
[37:36] than done
[37:37] to
[37:38] for someone who's 16 years old.
[37:40] >> Right.
[37:41] >> Where that one comment
[37:43] could
[37:44] >> Yeah.
[37:45] >> could wound them for for weeks. Right.
[37:48] >> But just think about the person that's
[37:49] commenting that. Are they creating? Are
[37:51] they making the video?
[37:52] >> Yeah.
[37:53] >> Right? They're playing it so safe that
[37:55] they're just always going to do that for
[37:56] the rest of their lives. And I guarantee
[37:59] you that person that's going around
[38:00] commenting cringe is not going to ever
[38:02] do anything meaningful with their life.
[38:04] It's the person that took chances. And
[38:06] every single creator that I know today,
[38:09] whether it's Mr. Beast, or whether it's
[38:15] Dude Perfect, or Dhar Mann,
[38:18] all of us for a very long time got
[38:20] called cringe. And guess what? We still
[38:22] get called cringe more than ever today.
[38:25] And so you'll never be able to get that
[38:27] to stop. I would say you're just skin
[38:30] grows thicker the more that you do it.
[38:32] And that's how experience and success is
[38:35] really what helps you overcome that.
[38:37] >> this before, but early on when I started
[38:40] taking off as an actor on Six Feet Under
[38:42] and on The Office, it was the early days
[38:43] of message boards.
[38:44] >> Yeah.
[38:45] >> So 2003, 2004, 2005, right in there.
[38:49] >> Right.
[38:49] >> 2006. And I would read the messages, and
[38:54] some of them were, you know, positive,
[38:55] but then it would always be like, "That
[38:57] guy looks so weird. What a pig-looking
[39:00] freak. And like, he can't act." And it
[39:03] would just devastate me. I was like, and
[39:05] and I was older at that point. I was
[39:06] late 30s. I was like, "Oh." And now
[39:09] like, I just could I read all kinds of
[39:12] negative stuff about me online and made
[39:14] up news articles and headlines that are
[39:17] meant to kind of damage my reputation. I
[39:19] don't even
[39:20] >> So you know what's interesting?
[39:21] >> that my producer gets all worked up and
[39:23] he's like, "Oh no, we got this." And
[39:24] it's like, "You know what? In 3 days, no
[39:26] one's going to care. It just goes by. It
[39:29] just blows over."
[39:29] >> made you more successful in the first
[39:31] place. So I love using Arnold
[39:33] Schwarzenegger as an example of this. So
[39:35] he had three goals, which later turned
[39:37] into four when he added politics. But
[39:39] when he was in Austria, he wanted to be
[39:42] a world champion bodybuilder, he wanted
[39:43] to move to America, and he wanted to be
[39:46] a big Hollywood actor. So he
[39:49] accomplished his goal of weightlifting,
[39:51] becoming the most successful one of the
[39:53] most successful bodybuilders in history.
[39:56] Then he moved to America through that.
[39:58] And then when he went to try to be a
[39:59] movie star,
[40:01] a casting director told him,
[40:04] "You'll never be a star because stars
[40:07] don't have that kind of accent.
[40:10] People will never accept you in
[40:11] America."
[40:12] >> Mhm.
[40:12] >> Eventually he got cast as The
[40:14] Terminator.
[40:16] And now after the movie came out, the
[40:19] way that he says, "I'll be back."
[40:21] >> Mhm.
[40:22] >> The reason it became such an iconic line
[40:25] is because of his accent and the way
[40:27] that he said it.
[40:29] So, what he thought was his biggest
[40:30] struggle actually ended up becoming his
[40:32] biggest superpower.
[40:34] >> Yeah.
[40:35] >> And so, whatever we're embarrassed about
[40:36] is actually what makes us more relatable
[40:38] and stand out the most.
[40:40] >> Yeah.
[40:40] >> We just should embrace it.
[40:41] >> nerdy background that I was describing
[40:44] to you with
[40:44] >> Yeah.
[40:45] >> chess and marching band and theater
[40:47] geeks and Dungeons and Dragons,
[40:49] >> Yeah.
[40:50] >> that allowed me to see into the world of
[40:52] Dwight Schrute,
[40:54] you know? And what I thought was a
[40:56] failing of mine, personal, that I was so
[40:59] nerdy, um
[41:02] actually
[41:03] >> Yeah.
[41:03] >> became a kind of a superpower.
[41:04] >> And nerds now are cool. Like, you know,
[41:07] we there's a saying that be nice to
[41:09] nerds because they may end up as your
[41:10] boss one day.
[41:11] >> that's very true.
[41:12] >> And I think we're seeing that more than
[41:13] ever.
[41:14] >> Folks, I have a confession. I will put
[41:16] off making a doctor's appointment for a
[41:18] truly ridiculous amount of time. Not
[41:20] because I don't care about my health,
[41:21] because I I just don't want to make the
[41:22] phone call. You know how it is. You
[41:24] call, you're put on hold, you leave a
[41:26] message, someone calls back while you're
[41:28] recording a podcast about the human
[41:29] soul, you call them back, they're at
[41:31] lunch. Three weeks later, whatever was
[41:33] wrong with you has either healed itself
[41:35] or become part of your personality. So,
[41:37] a quick word from our sponsor, Zocdoc,
[41:40] which thankfully makes the whole thing
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[42:00] complicated. Find and book the right
[42:02] doctor with Zocdoc. Head to
[42:04] zocdoc.com/soulboom
[42:06] to get started and check that
[42:08] appointment off your to-do list. That's
[42:11] ZOCDOC.com/soulboom.
[42:13] That's ZOCDOC.com/soulboom.
[42:17] Zocdoc.
[42:21] This episode is brought to you by
[42:22] Fetzer. You know, there's this tendency
[42:24] in modern life to believe that every
[42:25] problem has a material solution. More
[42:27] technology, more productivity, more
[42:29] money, more apps reminding you to
[42:31] breathe while you ignore the fact that
[42:33] your soul feels like a raisin. But the
[42:35] folks at the Fetzer Institute believe
[42:37] something deeper. They believe that
[42:39] behind humanity's biggest challenges are
[42:41] spiritual ones. Loneliness, division,
[42:43] disconnection, our inability to see each
[42:45] other, the planet, or even ourselves as
[42:48] sacred. And they're asking a really
[42:49] beautiful question. What if shared
[42:51] flourishing begins with the sacred?
[42:54] Fetzer supports stories, communities,
[42:56] and spiritual solutions from people
[42:58] around the world who are healing
[42:59] division, caring for the earth, and
[43:01] creating deeper human connection through
[43:03] faith, spirituality, [music] and
[43:04] reverence for love itself. Not dogma,
[43:07] not forcing one belief system, just the
[43:09] radical idea that, hey, maybe the soul
[43:12] matters. Honestly, that's a conversation
[43:14] we care deeply about here at Soulboom.
[43:17] You can explore their spiritual
[43:18] solutions library and learn more at
[43:20] fetzer.org.
[43:22] That's f e t z e r.org. Thanks, Fetzer.
[43:26] If you Google you online,
[43:28] there's some negative press. There's
[43:30] some [ __ ] you've gone through.
[43:31] >> Yeah.
[43:31] >> You've taken some real reputational
[43:33] dings.
[43:35] Your whole story is about how do we
[43:38] learn to become better people, better
[43:40] leaders, how do we learn from our
[43:41] mistakes, how do we grow?
[43:44] What How do you feel kind of looking
[43:47] back at that? And by the way,
[43:50] I'm not so far off. You know, just dig a
[43:53] little bit deep in Google and, you know,
[43:55] there's, you know, there's definitely
[43:57] some reputational dings back there. How
[43:59] How have you processed that? How are you
[44:02] moving forward?
[44:04] >> I think I heard you in a podcast
[44:05] actually say that
[44:07] I've made a lot of mistakes, I don't
[44:09] have as many regrets because
[44:13] those mistakes actually help shape you
[44:15] as to who you are. Again, as long as you
[44:18] learn from them. I look at failure the
[44:20] way that Ray Dalio describes it, the
[44:22] author of Principles and founder of
[44:23] Blackstone. He talks about failure as
[44:27] you playing a video game where there's
[44:29] different gems in the game. And he sees
[44:32] the gems as failure. That every time you
[44:34] collect a gem, you become 1% stronger.
[44:37] >> Mhm.
[44:37] >> And so the best leaders don't try to
[44:39] avoid failure.
[44:41] They actually embrace it because they
[44:43] realize that it helps them become
[44:45] stronger and better.
[44:47] And so yeah, you know, for a long time I
[44:49] just I didn't have the best direction. I
[44:51] was chasing the wrong things. I was
[44:53] doing things
[44:57] for the money, not the mission.
[44:59] >> Mhm.
[44:59] >> Um
[45:00] and that led me to a lot of bad
[45:02] decisions.
[45:03] >> Taking some shortcuts.
[45:05] >> And hopefully you're making some better
[45:07] decisions now.
[45:08] >> Yeah, exactly. Like
[45:11] if you don't know what's wrong, then how
[45:13] do you know what's right? And a lot of
[45:15] times people get taught that at an early
[45:17] age. Maybe some people have some great
[45:18] intuition. I didn't have that and I had
[45:21] to learn the hard way. But I think what
[45:24] is the most important part is like where
[45:25] do you go from there? Right? Do you
[45:27] continue making those same mistakes
[45:31] or do you take your failures and realize
[45:33] that hey, that was the not the right
[45:35] path. Now I want to get on the right
[45:37] path. And so ironically
[45:39] Dhar Mann's stories, for anyone that's
[45:41] ever seen one, it's all about an
[45:43] underdog who has the odds stacked
[45:44] against him.
[45:45] >> Right.
[45:46] >> And through failure and hardship that's
[45:50] where they learn these important lessons
[45:51] in order to become the person that they
[45:53] need to be to finally go and succeed.
[45:55] It's the hero's journey.
[45:57] And what's ironic is
[45:59] my own story
[46:01] is one of the best Dhar Mann stories
[46:05] because it's of a guy who failed over
[46:07] and over and over again.
[46:10] And eventually learned the lessons that
[46:12] he needed to learn in order to be
[46:14] successful.
[46:14] >> And how many times did you draw on those
[46:16] personal stories of yours as content for
[46:19] the videos of the hundreds and hundreds,
[46:22] thousands of content?
[46:23] >> Dozens and dozens of times. I
[46:26] just approved a story
[46:29] today that was based on my life
[46:31] experience.
[46:33] I can't remember the name offhand.
[46:35] That's again the three guys asleep.
[46:37] >> Okay, cuz it started with the title.
[46:39] >> started with the title.
[46:40] >> Yep.
[46:40] >> Yeah, I mean if I look at my notes, I'll
[46:42] find it, but um so much of my experience
[46:45] is what's inspired some of our best
[46:48] stories. And you know, what makes for a
[46:50] great story? The audience is able to see
[46:52] themselves through the characters that
[46:54] you build. And what makes something
[46:56] relatable? Well, if I've lived it,
[46:58] chances are a lot of people have also
[47:00] lived it or felt the way that I have.
[47:02] >> Yeah.
[47:02] >> So, the reason that our audience feels
[47:04] like our stories are so relatable is
[47:06] because it did come from real life.
[47:08] >> I know for me
[47:10] being able to share about mental health
[47:11] struggles that I've had,
[47:13] that's only part of my journey.
[47:16] >> Yeah.
[47:16] >> It's even a smallish part of my journey,
[47:18] but it's a very real part of my journey.
[47:20] >> Right.
[47:20] >> But that has meant so much
[47:22] >> Yeah.
[47:23] >> listeners and viewers and when I speak
[47:25] on college campuses,
[47:26] >> Right.
[47:26] >> they're like, "Holy [ __ ] This guy is a
[47:28] successful actor and TV and film and
[47:31] whatnot.
[47:31] >> Right.
[47:32] >> Um went through what I'm going through,
[47:34] went through depression, anxiety, OCD,
[47:37] you name it.
[47:38] >> Yeah.
[47:38] >> Like I kind of feel that's part of my
[47:41] that's become part of my purpose and my
[47:43] mission. It wasn't what I started,
[47:45] >> Yeah.
[47:45] >> but uh
[47:46] uh it has it has really meant a lot
[47:49] >> Wow.
[47:49] >> uh to folks. And I do think that
[47:51] >> Yeah.
[47:52] >> the
[47:54] you know, tests are described kind of in
[47:56] spiritual traditions as like
[47:58] the tree that's pruned the most is the
[48:00] one that blossoms the most, right? The
[48:03] The The ground that's tilled the most is
[48:06] the ground that becomes the most
[48:09] fertile. The gold that's burned the most
[48:13] becomes the most purified.
[48:15] But going through this process
[48:18] isn't about coming out on the other side
[48:22] injured, immune,
[48:24] and kind of like hyper strong and filled
[48:28] with willpower.
[48:30] Humility and vulnerability are part of
[48:33] the It's part of the gig, you know, it's
[48:35] part of the journey. And it's in real
[48:38] humility
[48:40] that compassion grows and you're able to
[48:42] have more compassion for other people,
[48:44] and I think that can positively impact
[48:47] your work. So for me, so many times
[48:50] getting my head hit against the
[48:52] sidewalk, whether it's in in failures,
[48:55] whether it's in show business, whether
[48:57] it's with addiction or what have you, is
[49:00] like get [ __ ] humble, man. Get
[49:03] [ __ ] humble. And out of that,
[49:06] there is It's a different kind of
[49:08] strength. It may not be the kind of
[49:10] strength you see portrayed
[49:12] in social media or in film, um but
[49:17] it's it's a wise, centered strength with
[49:20] a strong rudder underneath it.
[49:23] >> Wow, that was very beautifully said.
[49:26] >> Thanks, man.
[49:26] >> You can use that as a clip.
[49:28] >> Yeah, use that as a clip. All right.
[49:30] >> So you've spent years and years kind of
[49:33] honing your storytelling abilities,
[49:36] um and
[49:38] you're a kindness ambassador for the
[49:40] NFL. What the hell's that?
[49:42] >> [laughter]
[49:42] >> What's going on there?
[49:43] >> I'm the chief kindness officer for
[49:46] uh the 2026 Super Bowl, and now it's uh
[49:49] for the whole new 2026-2027 season.
[49:52] >> Wow, that's that sounds fun. Do you get
[49:55] like a badge or a hat or something at
[49:58] least?
[49:58] >> you get that. I got some custom shoes,
[50:00] but more importantly, you get the chance
[50:02] to really help change people's lives.
[50:05] Like, you know, for instance,
[50:07] um there was this boy who had lost his
[50:09] father, and the father, while he was on
[50:12] his deathbed, promised his son that
[50:14] before I pass, I'm going to take you to
[50:16] your first Super Bowl.
[50:18] Unfortunately, he never made it that
[50:20] far.
[50:20] >> Oh.
[50:20] >> And we heard about this story, and so we
[50:23] went and we surprised the son with
[50:25] tickets for him and his mom. And we
[50:27] said, "Just because your father couldn't
[50:29] deliver that promise, doesn't mean that
[50:30] your mother can't." And so both of them
[50:32] went, and it was this big emotional
[50:35] experience. Um so we've been able to
[50:37] bring stories like that to life.
[50:39] >> Uh and it's been a really special thing.
[50:41] >> That's beautiful.
[50:41] >> Yeah.
[50:42] >> You're not a 49ers fan, are you?
[50:44] >> Uh no, I'm a Rams fan.
[50:46] >> [laughter]
[50:46] >> Rams fan, oh.
[50:47] >> Yeah.
[50:48] >> I'm a Seahawks fan, so I'm really happy
[50:50] for that.
[50:50] >> Okay.
[50:51] >> kid.
[50:51] >> Yeah, well, you're a Seahawks fan. Wow,
[50:53] what a year for you.
[50:54] >> Yeah, yeah. Great year. And a Knicks
[50:56] fan, so
[50:57] come on.
[50:58] >> Wow, now I know why all these teams are
[51:00] winning.
[51:00] >> What a year. Exactly. I'm the I'm the
[51:02] common link. And let me go back to this
[51:04] other thing. So many themes in the
[51:06] stories that you tell are about
[51:07] kindness, about forgiveness, about
[51:09] compassion, underdog stories, about
[51:12] growing up, maturing, gaining wisdom,
[51:15] personal responsibility.
[51:17] I would view all of those as spiritual
[51:19] virtues and qualities. And as you know,
[51:21] my book Soul Boom, it's like why we need
[51:23] a spiritual revolution. So, is that what
[51:26] you're being a part of? And if so, what
[51:29] can we do to add to a spiritual
[51:32] revolution?
[51:34] >> You know, I think
[51:37] you first have to find yourself, then
[51:39] you can help others find themselves. And
[51:41] so all I'm trying to do is be better
[51:43] every single day, and then be an example
[51:46] for my children, be an example for my
[51:48] audience when I create content and
[51:50] embody that person that I'm trying to
[51:52] be. But I would say it really comes down
[51:54] to
[51:55] the classic golden rule. Do unto others
[51:58] as you want done to you.
[51:59] And I have seen this play out over and
[52:02] over in my life.
[52:04] >> Mhm.
[52:04] >> That the universe, whatever you put out
[52:07] into the world, always comes back to
[52:09] you. And so now, having gone through the
[52:11] mistakes that I've made in life, I
[52:13] believe in radical transparency and
[52:14] radical honesty. I'll give you an
[52:16] example. I found out from a network that
[52:19] they were sending us deposits
[52:22] uh for our viewership viewership and
[52:25] performance on their platform.
[52:27] But they had already prepaid and gave us
[52:30] a minimum guarantee.
[52:32] And so they weren't supposed to be
[52:33] sending these monthly payments. And so
[52:36] my accounting department asked me and
[52:37] they were just like, "Hey, what do we
[52:39] do? They prepaid us, but they're still
[52:41] paying us these payments."
[52:43] Immediately, I was like, "It Give it
[52:44] back. You have to tell them that you
[52:46] prepaid us."
[52:47] They caught the error, they figured out
[52:49] what happened, they were so thankful
[52:51] about it. That next season, when our
[52:54] contract expired, they tripled my
[52:56] contract.
[52:58] And
[52:59] I can't say it was because of that,
[53:01] >> Mhm.
[53:02] >> right? I'm surely It certainly helped
[53:04] build trust in their eyes, but also I
[53:06] just feel like that was God testing me
[53:08] to do the right thing. And because I did
[53:10] the right thing, it's coming back to me
[53:13] threefold or tenfold. And I feel like
[53:15] we're faced with opportunities like that
[53:17] all the time. Sometimes we can get
[53:19] discouraged because you are a good
[53:20] person and good things aren't happening
[53:22] to you.
[53:23] But it's only a matter of time. Just
[53:25] because it's not happening right now,
[53:27] doesn't mean that God isn't preparing
[53:29] you for something much better to come in
[53:31] the future. So
[53:33] >> Cuz that's what I was going to say.
[53:34] There might be people listening
[53:35] [clears throat] right now and they're
[53:35] like, "I always try and do the right
[53:37] thing and yet it never works out."
[53:39] >> Right.
[53:39] >> I keep getting doors slammed in my face.
[53:41] >> Right. But you never know when at any
[53:44] point in time
[53:45] >> Mhm.
[53:46] >> that phone call could come, that door
[53:48] could be knocked, that piece of video
[53:50] could
[53:51] go viral.
[53:51] >> thumbing on Facebook behind you and
[53:53] [laughter] you get that
[53:54] >> Exactly.
[53:54] >> that brilliant idea.
[53:55] >> You never know.
[53:56] >> Um
[53:58] we use the word soul a lot here and uh
[54:02] what does that word mean to you?
[54:06] >> I was looking at this quote and it said
[54:09] we are not
[54:10] humans having a spiritual experience. We
[54:13] are We're not human beings having a
[54:14] spiritual experience. We are spiritual
[54:16] beings having a human experience.
[54:20] And so I think it's just the
[54:22] energy
[54:25] that we carry within our bodies
[54:29] that
[54:31] go beyond like
[54:32] >> Mhm.
[54:33] >> you're probably better at answering this
[54:34] question, but I would just say
[54:37] yeah, I think of that quote.
[54:39] >> Mhm.
[54:39] It's one of my favorite quotes.
[54:42] >> Yeah.
[54:42] >> Father Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit
[54:44] priest.
[54:45] >> Yeah.
[54:45] >> has said that. It's I I always quote it
[54:47] and I think about it a lot because
[54:50] when I am a little bit lost and out of
[54:53] balance, when I remember that I'm a
[54:55] spiritual being having a human
[54:57] experience and by the way, Dar it's
[54:59] really hard to have a human experience.
[55:01] >> Yeah.
[55:02] Yeah.
[55:02] >> There's failings and difficulties and
[55:04] achy knees and digestive problems and
[55:08] people won't behave the way you want
[55:09] them to and
[55:11] dishwashers break, you know what I mean?
[55:13] Rent's tough to make. It's hard to be a
[55:15] human being, but when I remember I'm a
[55:17] spiritual being having a human
[55:18] experience um
[55:21] that helps
[55:21] >> makes the journey a little lighter.
[55:22] >> Yeah, absolutely.
[55:24] >> Yeah.
[55:24] >> Such a pleasure getting to know you.
[55:26] Thanks for coming on the show.
[55:27] >> amazing. I was not expecting such a
[55:29] wonderful conversation, so thank you.
[55:31] >> What's wrong with you?
[55:32] >> On my 3 4 hours of sleep, I wasn't sure
[55:33] I'd be able to perform. [laughter]
[55:35] >> You did great. You did great without any
[55:37] caffeine, might I add.
[55:38] >> Yeah. Well done.
[55:40] >> Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Yeah.
[55:43] >> Soul Boom is also on Spotify video. If
[55:44] you've got Spotify Premium, you can
[55:46] enjoy it free of Spotify ads. If you
[55:48] don't, you'll get even less ads if you
[55:50] hit subscribe to Soul Boom. Also, enjoy
[55:52] on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Pandora, or
[55:54] wherever else you get your stupid
[55:56] [music] podcasts.