Transcript
[0:00] There was one [music] patient late 40s,
[0:02] um, a little bit overweight, her blood
[0:04] pressure was going up, and she knew that
[0:06] she wanted to exercise. [music] I was
[0:08] supporting her on this, so we were
[0:09] talking about different things that she
[0:12] could do. I made [music] some
[0:13] suggestions. At one point, she said,
[0:15] "This is great, Dr. Foster. Thank you."
[0:17] But the thing is, I'm just not an
[0:19] exercise person. I never have been. It's
[0:22] just not me. And at that moment, I
[0:25] thought, "Oh, this is not an information
[0:28] problem. This is an [music] identity
[0:30] problem.
[0:31] >> She's a formerly trained family
[0:33] physician. She's an author and one of
[0:35] the clearest voices on why lasting
[0:37] change starts with identity. Today's
[0:39] guest is Dr. [music] Kim Foster.
[0:41] >> This is one of the key reasons why it's
[0:43] so hard to change identities. Because up
[0:46] until this point, your brain [music] has
[0:48] had a whole lot of evidence that you are
[0:50] this kind of person. So you can look at
[0:51] yourself in the mirror and say, "I'm
[0:53] very confident." But your mind [music]
[0:54] is like interesting based on what?
[0:57] What's the framework for creating a new
[1:00] identity?
[1:00] >> So there's three [music] parts. So
[1:02] recognize is the first and that for many
[1:05] of us is the hardest part.
[1:10] >> You spent two decades as a physician
[1:12] telling people essentially how to
[1:14] improve their lives. But you also
[1:16] observed very few people that changed
[1:18] their identity in this process. Why is
[1:20] it so difficult for so many of us to
[1:23] shift our identity even though we know
[1:25] what to do? But how to shift our
[1:28] identity seems so challenging.
[1:30] >> Yeah. Well, you're right. I mean, the
[1:32] identity piece is the key there. So, I
[1:35] did spend two decades working as a
[1:37] family doctor and I saw people come in
[1:40] all day long and I would give them
[1:43] advice, the the stuff that I had been
[1:45] trained to do. So trained to tell people
[1:47] what they needed to do, how they needed
[1:49] to do it, give them the evidence, give
[1:52] all of those pieces, and then they would
[1:55] walk out motivated. So these are people
[1:57] who are intelligent, they're motivated,
[1:59] they have a lot at stake,
[2:01] >> and they're in pain or something, right?
[2:02] >> They're in pain. They're scared for what
[2:05] is coming for them or what has already
[2:07] happened or what their family has
[2:09] history would tell them is coming for
[2:10] them. So they would really be very
[2:13] motivated to change. So motivation was
[2:15] not the problem and information was not
[2:17] the problem and they would walk out and
[2:20] then I'd see them months again later and
[2:23] nothing had changed. Or maybe they had
[2:25] changed something for a short time, they
[2:27] tried and then they'd kind of stopped.
[2:30] They fell off. They went back to old
[2:32] habits, old patterns. And I became
[2:35] really curious about that because
[2:38] >> you know I like to think that I was
[2:40] pretty good at giving explanations and
[2:42] uh you know helping people to
[2:44] understand. I like that piece of it to
[2:46] educate them and help them understand
[2:48] why it was important and what they
[2:49] needed to do. So regular exercise and
[2:52] getting more sleep and we know all the
[2:54] stuff we know vegetables are involved
[2:56] all of that stuff.
[2:58] >> So I became very curious about that gap.
[3:01] So what is that gap? M
[3:04] >> um and over time well I remember
[3:06] actually there was one patient who uh
[3:09] she was late 40s um a little bit
[3:12] overweight her blood pressure was going
[3:14] up and she knew that she wanted to
[3:16] exercise get started exercising and I
[3:19] was supporting her on this so we were
[3:20] talking about different things that she
[3:23] could do and uh I made some suggestions
[3:26] you know you could uh doesn't need to
[3:28] take or she had objections right the
[3:30] usual objections like I don't have much
[3:33] time. So I said, "Well, that's no
[3:35] problem. 10 minutes even at a time can
[3:38] make a difference. There's research on
[3:39] that." Giving her all the information,
[3:41] right?
[3:42] >> There's all these excuses of why we
[3:43] can't do something that's better for us.
[3:45] >> Yeah. Yeah. There's always reasons and
[3:47] they sound very rational.
[3:49] >> I've got three jobs. I've got three
[3:51] kids. I've got no time. I'm exhausted
[3:53] already. How could I find more time to
[3:55] do this? Struggling in these areas. It
[3:57] all sounds
[3:58] >> rational, I guess. Right.
[4:00] >> Exactly. And then it was like, "Oh, I
[4:02] don't like going to the gym." And I was,
[4:03] "No problem. You can do all kinds of
[4:05] things at home." Um, and so I had all
[4:08] these things. And then at one point she
[4:10] said, "This is great, Dr. Foster. Thank
[4:12] you. I really appreciate this. But the
[4:14] thing is, I'm just not an exercise
[4:16] person. I never have been. It's just not
[4:19] me." And at that moment, I thought,
[4:22] >> "Oh, this is not an information problem.
[4:25] This is an identity problem. she just
[4:28] really does not see herself as someone
[4:30] who exercises. And then she went a
[4:33] little bit further and said that her
[4:34] sister was always the one who was the
[4:36] sporty one and she was the bookish one.
[4:39] Right? So she had it had come from what
[4:42] her family had told her, the roles that
[4:44] she'd played, all of that that she'd
[4:46] accumulated. And then she just really
[4:47] didn't see herself as someone who
[4:50] exercised. So, it didn't matter how
[4:52] bite-size I made it or how easy I made
[4:54] it or lay your workout clothes out the
[4:57] night before, all of that. If she just
[4:59] ultimately did not see herself as
[5:01] someone who exercised, it was just never
[5:03] really going to stick. She was it was
[5:05] friction every time she was trying to
[5:08] enact that behavior. And so once I saw
[5:12] that though, I could see that that
[5:14] applied across the board for so many
[5:18] things that we tried to change, not
[5:20] just, you know, so exercise or eating
[5:22] well. I had a guy who many people who
[5:24] would say, you know, I'm not a health
[5:25] nut, so don't talk to me about like
[5:28] lentils and things like and but if you
[5:31] have this identity of you being this
[5:34] kind of person or not that kind of
[5:36] person, then it is absolutely going to
[5:39] just be your instruction manual for how
[5:41] you live your life, the choices that you
[5:44] make. And
[5:45] >> when people say these identity
[5:47] statements, it sounds like fact. It
[5:50] sounds like it's the truth, like it's a
[5:52] neutral fact, like eye color or your
[5:55] height or something like I'm not an
[5:57] exercise person. I'm a night owl,
[5:59] whatever. You know, we have all these
[6:01] identity statements. Um, and once I
[6:03] started hearing people saying these
[6:05] things, it really it just I heard it all
[6:08] the time and I began to recognize it as
[6:11] that's the difference maker. That's the
[6:13] thing. Um, because I certainly also had
[6:16] patients who had more empowering
[6:18] identities. M
[6:20] >> um I had this 70-year-old guy who was
[6:22] very fit and like a big strong guy who
[6:26] had been active his whole life and I cuz
[6:30] in your you know 60s7s that's when you
[6:32] really start to see the differences in
[6:34] how you have lived your life because
[6:36] there I certainly had many patients who
[6:38] were in those decades who were not
[6:40] looking quite so robust and fit and
[6:43] strong. Um but he was and he was waiting
[6:46] for a a knee surgery but he was a skier
[6:49] and he was frustrated because it was
[6:52] meaning that he was losing out missing
[6:54] out on the ski season um being on this
[6:57] waiting list and because I was curious
[6:59] about him. I was curious about what had
[7:01] made it so that his life he had chosen
[7:03] this particular trajectory but the way
[7:06] the language that he used was I'm a
[7:08] skier. I'm an active guy. I need to get
[7:10] back out there. I've always taken care
[7:12] of myself. So, he had these empowering
[7:16] identity statements that he's
[7:17] volunteered for how he saw himself, what
[7:21] his self-concept was, and that had
[7:23] dictated his choices through his whole
[7:26] lifetime. So, if we have an identity
[7:29] that says, "I'm just not a workout type
[7:31] person or I'm just not a healthy eater
[7:33] type of person." But then we know we're
[7:36] supposed to start eating healthier if
[7:37] it's going to solve a health problem we
[7:39] have or something an ailment we have.
[7:42] Eating better, sleeping better, moving
[7:44] more is going to help that pain. But if
[7:46] we have an identity that says, "No,
[7:48] you're not that person. You're this
[7:50] person." and we start taking those
[7:53] actions that we know are better for us
[7:55] but go against our identity. What
[7:58] ultimately happens when we go against
[8:00] our identity even for good?
[8:02] >> Yeah. When we go against identity even
[8:05] though we know cognitively it's for our
[8:08] own good. It's going to lead somewhere
[8:10] that we want it to go. But every time
[8:13] you do that action, it creates friction
[8:15] and it creates like an identity mismatch
[8:19] >> because then and our brains do not like
[8:21] that kind of you know disconnect or this
[8:25] in congruence. So we are we have a
[8:28] belief about oursel on one level and
[8:30] then we have what we're doing what the
[8:33] actions and behaviors that we're doing
[8:35] on another level and that feels
[8:38] uncomfortable.
[8:39] So our minds are looking to resolve
[8:42] those kinds of conflicts and that kind
[8:44] of cognitive dissonance. And uh there's
[8:49] two different ways to resolve that
[8:50] conflict. Obviously you can stop going
[8:53] to the gym or you can start considering
[8:55] yourself to be an athlete and and change
[8:58] your identity. And the easier thing for
[9:00] us to do is to just stop doing the
[9:02] behavior that feels uncomfortable and
[9:04] just to go back to what feels
[9:06] comfortable, what feels safe,
[9:08] >> familiar,
[9:08] >> familiar, what gives us because we can
[9:11] get a lot out of identities that aren't
[9:13] even particularly u positive.
[9:16] >> If it sometimes it gives us a feeling of
[9:18] safety or a feeling of belonging. If
[9:21] it's especially it's in your social
[9:23] circle, everybody is kind of the same.
[9:25] So you feel like you belong there. you
[9:27] know who you are in that role in that
[9:30] identity. So even though you might know
[9:34] that is better for you, it's not what
[9:36] feels right, it doesn't feel safe. And
[9:40] uh our our brains, you know, our job,
[9:42] the our primitive brain job is to help
[9:45] us to survive. So if something feels
[9:48] like this is not safe, this is not
[9:50] right, this doesn't I've never done this
[9:52] before, so it's not guaranteed with my
[9:55] survival because this is new. Um, so our
[9:58] brains are going to want to default to
[10:00] patterns that feel safe, normal, new,
[10:03] familiar, what everyone else around us
[10:04] is doing, even though we know it would
[10:07] be better.
[10:08] >> Isn't it interesting? You could be in
[10:09] the worst situation of your life or the
[10:12] worst relationship of your life or the
[10:14] worst body of your life, but the unknown
[10:19] of taking the actions that will support
[10:22] you are more frightening than the actual
[10:27] fear of the familiarity of the
[10:29] environment you're in right now. It's
[10:31] like it seems crazy when you're not in
[10:34] that situation to be able to see someone
[10:36] else's situation and say just leave,
[10:38] just start working out. Just get rid of
[10:40] that career if it's driving you crazy.
[10:42] If that relationship is killing you,
[10:44] literally get out. It seems easy to tell
[10:46] someone else, but when you're in that
[10:48] identity, it seems so scary of the
[10:50] unknown on what's the other side, right?
[10:53] >> Yeah. Exactly. Because our our mind's
[10:55] job isn't to be like, "Oh, what would be
[10:57] really great for my growth or my
[10:59] development? what's inspiring like our
[11:01] primitive brains just want us to survive
[11:04] and so yeah I mean you can you you can
[11:07] for a while right convince yourself that
[11:09] this is better um but it's ultimately
[11:12] you're going to when you're busy when
[11:13] you're tired when you're stressed you're
[11:15] going to start to default back so you
[11:18] know you can be motivated on a good day
[11:20] and uh and feel inspired to do a
[11:24] particular thing that you know is better
[11:25] for you when you are well rested and
[11:28] don't have a lot going on and all of
[11:30] those pieces. But when it rains, when
[11:32] it's you're cold, tired, sick, have a
[11:36] super busy week, then it's so much
[11:38] easier just to default back to what is
[11:40] safe.
[11:40] >> I mean, so how does someone actually
[11:42] change their identity? And how quick can
[11:45] you change your identity? Does it take
[11:47] months, years, decades, or can you
[11:49] change your identity in a moment?
[11:51] >> Yeah, this is a great question and this
[11:53] is the key because it sounds it sounds
[11:55] really simple. Just change your
[11:56] identity. just decide to be somebody
[11:58] different and you can make that decision
[12:02] quickly and overnight once you become
[12:04] aware and really that's kind of that is
[12:06] a big key is becoming aware because like
[12:08] I said most people just report these
[12:11] identity statements like it's just fact
[12:13] once you become aware of it and once you
[12:14] realize that you want to change and
[12:18] adopt a new more empowering identity you
[12:20] can make that decision right away but
[12:23] it's the stabilization that takes a
[12:26] And that process requires proof. So your
[12:30] mind because this is why it is this is
[12:33] one of the key reasons why it's so hard
[12:35] to change our identities because up
[12:37] until this point your brain has had a
[12:40] whole lot of evidence that you are this
[12:42] kind of person. So um you know let's say
[12:46] that you you are you don't feel very
[12:48] confident. You want to be because it's
[12:49] not just health right of course this
[12:50] applies to so many different realms. Um,
[12:53] you want to be socially confident, but
[12:55] you've always identified yourself as
[12:57] really awkward,
[12:58] >> introverted, shy.
[12:59] >> Introverted, shy. Yes, that was me as a
[13:01] kid. Um, but so you can decide that you
[13:05] want that, but your brain has got so
[13:08] much evidence to the contrary. So you
[13:10] can look at yourself in the mirror and
[13:12] say, I'm very confident, but your mind
[13:14] is like interesting based on what?
[13:16] >> There's no evidence yet.
[13:17] >> Yeah, no evidence.
[13:18] >> So it's like one day at a time.
[13:20] >> So you need to start to gather proof. So
[13:22] you need to start to log actual evidence
[13:25] that you can do things in a different
[13:28] way. Um, however, it can be very
[13:31] difficult if you just try to leap
[13:32] straight from like I'm super awkward and
[13:35] shy
[13:36] >> to I am like a socially confident social
[13:38] butterfly. That's just and your brain is
[13:40] just going to reject that completely.
[13:42] And that's often why affirmations like
[13:44] big grandiose affirmations do not work
[13:46] for people. But if you can choose what I
[13:49] call a bridge identity. So
[13:51] >> bridge identity.
[13:52] >> Bridge identity. Yeah. So something that
[13:54] is it's a bit of a stretch but it's not
[13:57] the full way. It's one step away. So if
[14:01] you're let's go back to the socially
[14:03] confident. So instead of saying I'm
[14:05] super socially confident uh in environ
[14:08] all environments, it could be I'm
[14:10] somebody who is embracing the challenge
[14:12] of starting one new conversation each
[14:14] day. I'm somebody who can start up a
[14:17] conversation even when I feel
[14:19] uncomfortable or something like that,
[14:21] right? Like it's it's just one little
[14:23] step off of and it's believable, but
[14:26] it's also a stretch and then you go out
[14:29] and gather some proof for that. So then
[14:32] you put yourself into a situation and
[14:34] you just do that one little action even
[14:36] though it feels really uncomfortable and
[14:38] then you have to to really make that pay
[14:43] attention to that piece of action and so
[14:46] that you can internalize it and say
[14:48] >> okay that's what I did I kept that
[14:51] promise to myself and then you keep
[14:53] going and eventually
[14:54] >> you call that you call that the
[14:55] stabilization time. Yeah, that's that's
[14:57] when you have to you're stabilizing the
[14:59] identity so that it actually becomes
[15:02] real to you and so that your mind
[15:03] actually starts to believe it and
[15:06] importantly believes it even when some
[15:10] contrary evidence shows up like even
[15:13] when maybe something didn't go so great
[15:15] that you wanted it to. Because that's
[15:18] another key is that when you have a
[15:21] particular identity of yourself as
[15:22] somebody in particular and then um you
[15:26] know something happens that is in
[15:29] accordance with that you're like see not
[15:31] me right so like
[15:32] >> it goes back to the old belief
[15:34] >> it goes back to the old belief yeah I
[15:35] knew that that I knew that I wasn't
[15:37] somebody who could do that that's
[15:38] whatever um but it's when you have an
[15:42] identity that is upgraded from that
[15:44] those contrary pieces of of evidence can
[15:46] you still have a bad day. You can still
[15:48] skip a run, but it doesn't shake who you
[15:52] actually fundamentally believe yourself
[15:54] to be. If you still believe yourself to
[15:55] be a runner, it rains, you decide not to
[15:57] go, it doesn't mean you're not a runner
[15:59] anymore. Just means that you just
[16:01] decided to give yourself a break that
[16:02] one day. But somebody who doesn't think
[16:04] of themselves as a runner is going to be
[16:06] like, "Oh, yeah. See, I skipped that
[16:07] run. I knew that it wasn't for me. I
[16:10] knew that's never been me anyway."
[16:12] >> She calls the bridge.
[16:13] >> Yeah. Bridge identities.
[16:14] >> Bridge identities.
[16:16] Mhm.
[16:16] >> What's the framework for creating a new
[16:20] identity? Then you have this three-part
[16:21] framework. Recognize, redesign,
[16:23] ritualize.
[16:25] >> What is that and how do we use that?
[16:27] >> Yes. So, exactly like you said. So,
[16:29] there's three parts. So, recognize is
[16:32] the first and that for many of us is s
[16:35] is the hardest part because like I said,
[16:38] we have just believed a certain thing
[16:40] about ourselves and we've been logging
[16:42] proof for our whole lifetime. Um, and so
[16:44] it just sounds like a fact. So you have
[16:46] to really start to recognize, well, what
[16:48] is the identity that I have been
[16:50] operating as? And and then start to call
[16:54] that into question. Is that true? Does
[16:57] that have to always be true? Where did
[16:59] that come from? Who told me that that
[17:02] was true?
[17:03] >> You know, those kinds of questions. Just
[17:05] really recognizing that it's not the
[17:07] truth. It's just an just a story that
[17:11] you have been telling yourself about
[17:12] what's possible for you, what's not
[17:15] possible for you. And then once you have
[17:17] kind of detached yourself a little from
[17:20] the stone cold truth of this identity
[17:23] story that you've been telling yourself,
[17:25] then it's a redesign. So then you get to
[17:28] really identify, okay, what is the who
[17:32] do I need to be for my next chapter? I
[17:34] have this goal. I have something that I
[17:35] would like to achieve. Who is the person
[17:38] who achieves that? Who is the person
[17:40] that be that acts like that has that um
[17:44] life? And and then and that's the fun
[17:46] part too is to really start to re
[17:48] >> imagine a dream.
[17:50] >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. And you get to redesign
[17:52] a a new um a new identity for yourself.
[17:56] But then the third part is the key
[17:58] that's ritualized because then that's
[18:00] really what I was talking about is you
[18:01] have to go out there and log proof
[18:03] because it's not just a thought
[18:05] exercise. Guys, it's not good enough to
[18:06] just choose a new identity and just be
[18:08] like, "Okay, job done." Um, you really
[18:11] have to go out there and start to
[18:13] collect proof in tiny, small, probably
[18:17] uncomfortable ways in the beginning and
[18:19] then you start to it becomes part of who
[18:22] you are and then su eventually you wake
[18:24] up and you're like actually I am this
[18:26] kind of person now.
[18:28] >> Now for two decades you worked as a
[18:30] family doctor. Mhm.
[18:32] >> When did you realize that you didn't
[18:34] want to be in that practice anymore or
[18:37] you wanted to reimagine your your work
[18:40] and how hard was it to let go of an old
[18:43] identity of being a doctor?
[18:45] >> I mean I had been practicing for 20
[18:46] years and I mean ultimately I ended up
[18:48] practicing for 20 years. It was it was a
[18:50] few years before that that I started to
[18:53] feel called to help people in a
[18:56] different way
[18:57] >> because as a doctor so much of my work
[19:00] happened after something had already
[19:02] gone wrong. So somebody had developed
[19:04] heart disease, diabetes, chronic pain or
[19:08] they were so exhausted and overwhelmed
[19:11] that uh their health was really starting
[19:13] to suffer. And I kept thinking I want to
[19:16] get further upstream here. I wanted to
[19:19] help people to change their choices and
[19:21] their behavior and how they thought
[19:24] about themselves. Yeah. When there was
[19:26] still possibility ahead. Um and at the
[19:29] same time I started to feel an
[19:31] increasingly strong pull like a creative
[19:34] pull. So I wanted to create stuff of my
[19:37] own and write and speak and um you know
[19:41] do things like that. And uh so I started
[19:45] dabbling a little. I started making some
[19:47] YouTube videos on the side. I started
[19:49] writing. I started coaching. And I got
[19:53] to a point where I realized that this
[19:56] thing that I was doing on the side was
[19:58] really that was the work that I wanted
[20:00] to do.
[20:00] >> Yeah.
[20:01] >> You loved it.
[20:02] >> I loved it. I loved it. And it was it
[20:04] was meeting all of my, you know, inner
[20:07] need for that sense of meaning and
[20:09] helping people upstream, all of those
[20:12] pieces. However, just knowing what I
[20:14] wanted to do again was not enough
[20:16] because I had a very ingrained identity
[20:20] as doctor.
[20:21] >> How many days does it take to go from
[20:22] total beginner to reasonably proficient
[20:25] at a new skill? Well, if you practice
[20:27] for a focused hour a day, then about
[20:30] 250,
[20:32] which also happens to be the number of
[20:34] reasons to choose T-Mobile. Here's an
[20:37] excellent reason. They have the fastest
[20:39] 5G home internet according to UCLA speed
[20:42] test which you can test for yourself
[20:44] worry-f free with their 15-day money
[20:46] back guarantee. Another great reason,
[20:48] it's fast and easy to set up, too. Plug
[20:51] it in and you're online in practically
[20:53] no time with no appointment or
[20:55] technician needed. Those are just a few
[20:58] reasons. Find yours at t-mobile.com/home
[21:02] internet where you can check
[21:04] availability and try it for yourself.
[21:06] They're so sure you'll love it. You get
[21:08] your money back if you don't. Fastest
[21:11] according to UCLA speed test
[21:12] intelligence data. Second half of 2025.
[21:16] All rights reserved. Redeem money back
[21:18] guarantee within 30 days of
[21:20] cancellation.
[21:20] >> You know, probably since you were a
[21:22] teenager, you're in college. You're
[21:23] like, I'm going to go to med school and
[21:24] I'm going to be in residency and then
[21:25] I'm going to be a doctor. And it's like
[21:27] your whole adult life.
[21:29] >> Yes.
[21:29] >> Was around an identity.
[21:31] >> Yes.
[21:31] >> You talked about being a doctor. You met
[21:33] with patients every day. You you got
[21:36] your credibility from this as well. You
[21:38] got so many things from you got your
[21:40] money from this. All these things came
[21:42] from being a doctor.
[21:44] >> Yeah.
[21:44] >> So leaving that identity must be
[21:46] challenging.
[21:47] >> It was incredibly challenging. It took
[21:48] me a long time to actually realize that
[21:52] that so much of my identity was wrapped
[21:55] up in this. And yes, exactly. I decided
[21:57] when I was 17 that I wanted to go to
[21:59] medical school. And so everything from
[22:02] that point onwards was because being an
[22:05] achiever good student type I was like
[22:08] okay that's the goal now what do I need
[22:10] to do to get there then it was just a
[22:11] matter of execute so I needed to get the
[22:13] grades I needed to write the MCAT like I
[22:15] needed to do all the things and then get
[22:17] into medical school and now okay get
[22:20] through med school and so I really
[22:22] adopted what I realized later is that I
[22:26] adopted a survivor
[22:28] >> identity really. So, yes, because I I
[22:32] >> survive this. Survive the test, survive
[22:34] med school, survive the residency,
[22:36] >> stick it out, no matter what, no matter
[22:38] how hard things get. Um, and
[22:41] >> 16 hour days, no sleep, whatever it
[22:43] takes.
[22:44] >> Yeah. There were times in the hospital
[22:45] when I'd be like in residency
[22:48] especially, I'd be so exhausted. I'd
[22:50] been working so many hours, it's middle
[22:52] of the night, the pager goes off again,
[22:54] and I just wanted to ignore it,
[22:57] >> go to sleep,
[22:58] >> go back. Yeah. and I'd put my head down,
[23:01] cry for a minute, and then get pull
[23:04] myself together, walk out, and do the
[23:07] thing that needed to be done.
[23:08] >> Survive.
[23:08] >> Survive.
[23:09] >> One more call.
[23:10] >> Yeah. Just keep going. So, when I
[23:12] reached a point in my medical career
[23:15] where I was like, I need to I need to
[23:17] make this move. I need this new chapter.
[23:19] I need to go. My survivor had a lot to
[23:22] say about that. My survivor was like,
[23:24] this is hard. No problem. We can do
[23:27] hard. Keep going. And so I really had to
[23:32] understand that endurance isn't a virtue
[23:34] in all situations. Sometimes you need to
[23:38] know when to make a choice. Just because
[23:40] you can keep going, it doesn't mean that
[23:42] you have to keep going. And that the
[23:45] strength can come from making a choice,
[23:47] especially making an unconventional
[23:49] choice. and walking away from something
[23:52] that I get a lot of validation from
[23:55] status like you know it was very
[23:58] confusing for a lot of people why I
[24:01] would actually
[24:01] >> why would you walk away from this this
[24:02] is what you worked for your whole life
[24:04] >> oh and the sunk cost this is who you are
[24:06] the sunk cost was was huge
[24:07] >> medical school or this the investment
[24:09] >> why would you throw this all away why
[24:11] would you throw it all away and and I
[24:14] was asking myself that too like it
[24:16] wasn't just people external to me saying
[24:18] why would you throw it although I
[24:19] certainly had that. But it was it was
[24:22] yeah that feeling of I invested so much
[24:25] and now I'm just going to walk away.
[24:26] That's crazy. Who does that? And so that
[24:29] was really hard. And what I came to
[24:32] realize what I the permission that I
[24:34] gave myself on that is that I didn't get
[24:37] that education to limit my life. I
[24:40] didn't get it so that I could only do
[24:42] this one thing forever and ever until I
[24:45] die. Um, I gave it to my I gave myself
[24:49] that education because I wanted to have
[24:51] a meaningful life. And I couldn't have
[24:54] foretold when I was 17 that I was going
[24:56] to reach a point that it didn't feel
[24:58] like it was giving me that meaningful
[25:00] life anymore. But I had to give myself
[25:01] permission to just let that go. And it
[25:04] also didn't mean that none of that stuff
[25:06] mattered. It didn't mean I didn't have
[25:09] to pretend that it didn't happen or
[25:12] consider it all a waste. Just because
[25:14] you're not continuing on in something
[25:15] doesn't mean that the years that came
[25:17] before were a total waste of time. I
[25:20] learned so much. I mean, all of those
[25:22] years deeply shaped who I am and how I
[25:26] think and the patterns that I recognize
[25:28] and how I relate to people. So, I get to
[25:31] bring all of that with me. I'm just
[25:33] doing a different thing now. And it's
[25:35] okay. It's not a loss. I brought it all
[25:38] with me.
[25:39] >> Mhm. Wow. So when was like the last day
[25:41] you I guess had your practice or before
[25:44] you moved on? What was that like and why
[25:46] did you decide to say now is the time to
[25:48] move forward into a new identity?
[25:50] >> Yeah, I had two days that that were
[25:53] significant. One was the day that I
[25:55] decided to go and one was the day that I
[25:57] actually did go.
[25:58] >> How much time was in between?
[26:00] >> There was a solid year in between those
[26:02] two.
[26:02] >> You made a decision like all right I'm
[26:04] done.
[26:04] >> Yeah.
[26:05] >> Done with this. I'm going to go create
[26:06] this new thing.
[26:07] >> Yes.
[26:08] >> And take a leap.
[26:09] You said, "Did you say I'm going to give
[26:10] it a year? I'm going to wait until this
[26:12] moment or you just waiting until you
[26:14] knew the right time to leave."
[26:16] >> Yeah. I Well, the day that I decided, I
[26:18] was working in a university clinic and I
[26:20] had just finished um suturing up a
[26:22] patient's hand, which is something that
[26:24] I really like to do. Stitching. Yeah.
[26:25] And I like to think I was pretty good at
[26:28] it. Um but it was a pretty intense
[26:29] repair. It was just a little bit more
[26:31] complicated than usual. Anyway, I did a
[26:33] good job, but um I wanted to kind of
[26:35] decompress a little bit. and out the
[26:37] back of the clinic. It was on a
[26:39] university campus, so there's woods out
[26:41] there. So, I walked out, just put my
[26:43] earbuds in and listened uh to some
[26:45] things and went for a walk out the woods
[26:48] uh before my next patient. And as I'm
[26:51] walking, I realized
[26:54] I don't want to go back.
[26:55] >> You don't want to go back in.
[26:56] >> Don't want to go back.
[26:57] >> And and it wasn't I
[26:59] >> nature was calling you. I want to stay
[27:01] in this this woods.
[27:03] Well, what I realized is that I didn't
[27:04] want to It's not that I wanted to go
[27:06] didn't want to go back that afternoon. I
[27:07] didn't want to go back at all. I wanted
[27:09] to keep walking through the woods and go
[27:11] emerge the other side. I had this vision
[27:13] of like emerging the other side into a
[27:15] completely new chapter of my life.
[27:19] >> And it was and it wasn't because I had
[27:22] come it the interesting part to me when
[27:23] I think back about it is it wasn't
[27:26] because I had had a really bad thing
[27:27] like I'd just done a really good thing.
[27:29] I just sutured somebody's hand and did a
[27:32] good job and was doing what I had
[27:35] trained been trained to do and was quite
[27:37] capable of doing at that time. But I
[27:38] still didn't want to go back and keep
[27:41] doing it. So I did go back though that
[27:45] afternoon. I didn't walk through the
[27:47] door and throw my stethoscope across the
[27:49] room or go. [laughter]
[27:50] >> It wasn't like that. Um because I still
[27:54] had I knew that I still had some work to
[27:56] do because that's when I realized
[27:58] because the other thing is I mean I'd
[27:59] started dabbling with YouTube and
[28:01] coaching and all of that and I was
[28:03] starting to make money enough that I
[28:06] knew I could actually support myself and
[28:08] my family. We wouldn't have to sell our
[28:10] house.
[28:11] >> Um and I was like okay so you actually
[28:14] logistically could leave now. So why
[28:18] aren't you
[28:19] >> So you were making enough. Maybe it
[28:20] wasn't the exact amount you were making
[28:22] as a doctor, but it was enough that
[28:23] you're right.
[28:24] >> It was enough that I could go.
[28:26] >> So, what was it that was holding you
[28:27] back?
[28:27] >> Well, that was when I really had to get
[28:29] intensive and intentional about
[28:31] addressing that identity piece about who
[28:33] am I here? Like what why who will I be
[28:36] without being a doctor? Cuz I just
[28:37] couldn't let it go. I just it had been
[28:40] so wrapped up in my entire adult life
[28:42] that I just couldn't I couldn't walk
[28:44] away yet. So, I needed to really think
[28:46] about well, what is that going to be
[28:47] like? like what do I write on forms when
[28:49] they ask me what's your occupation and
[28:52] you know what [clears throat] do I say I
[28:54] just needed to to really
[28:56] [laughter]
[28:57] >> well that's it actually I did it's
[28:59] actually funny I did have the first time
[29:01] that I introduced myself as a YouTuber
[29:03] was pretty crazy because that's that is
[29:06] >> you're just a YouTuber you're not a
[29:07] doctor anymore
[29:08] >> right yeah like at dinner parties your
[29:10] uncle isn't like so you're a doctor well
[29:12] what are you really going to do with
[29:13] your life but they do have that response
[29:16] when you tell people that Interesting.
[29:18] That's so funny because do you know Ali
[29:19] Abdal?
[29:20] >> Yeah, I met Ali last summer. Really?
[29:22] Yes. Yes. Yeah.
[29:23] >> So I I've known him for a while and I
[29:25] was or maybe he was interviewing me.
[29:27] That's what he was doing. He was
[29:28] interviewing me, I think. Um and he was
[29:30] still a doctor like two days a month or
[29:32] something.
[29:33] >> Yeah.
[29:33] >> But he was making more or just as much
[29:36] as a YouTuber. And I go,
[29:38] >> "What are you waiting for, man?" And he
[29:39] was holding on to this identity of,
[29:41] >> well, how are people going to look at me
[29:43] without me saying I'm I'm not a doctor
[29:45] anymore? You know, I'm not practicing.
[29:46] Mhm.
[29:47] >> It was tied into his identity. He's
[29:49] like,
[29:50] >> but then he finally took the leap, I
[29:52] think, a few months later. And then he
[29:53] made millions of dollars, you know,
[29:55] pretty quickly after that being a
[29:57] YouTuber. Right.
[29:58] >> Right. Just a YouTuber.
[29:59] >> And but I think there's a for him it was
[30:02] challenging. For you it was challenging.
[30:04] But
[30:04] >> when did you finally come to to grips
[30:06] with like it's going to be okay
[30:09] >> if I'm not identified as a doctor or I'm
[30:11] not getting this validation or this
[30:13] credibility that I've had for so long?
[30:15] Well, I finally came to terms with it
[30:17] and I actually had written up my
[30:19] resignation letter and I was I was
[30:22] feeling really at peace with it and I
[30:24] was good to go and in the new year like
[30:26] in January I was going to just let
[30:28] people know and I needed to you know I
[30:30] had obligations to make sure that
[30:31] everything was going to be taken care of
[30:33] >> all of those things and the new year was
[30:35] 2020
[30:37] >> and co happened
[30:39] >> and I thought this is not the moment
[30:42] when I can walk can't abandon this.
[30:44] >> You can't abandon the health care
[30:46] profession at the absolute worst moment.
[30:49] >> You can't abandon them. But did they
[30:51] abandon you?
[30:52] >> Well, the health care profession
[30:54] abandoned you in some ways.
[30:55] >> Yes, possibly. But I just felt like in
[30:58] my core I was like this is not how I
[30:59] want to leave. This is not what I want
[31:01] to do. And so I stayed through the first
[31:03] wave of COVID and in and really I mean
[31:06] it was terrifying personally absolutely
[31:08] terrifying professionally and personally
[31:10] terrifying time to be practicing
[31:12] medicine but um especially primary care
[31:14] frontline
[31:15] >> and uh but it was beautiful and like the
[31:18] banging pots and everything like that's
[31:20] for me and uh my boys were proud of
[31:22] that. They were terrified for me too.
[31:24] But um it was a really nice sort of end.
[31:28] And then we went through the summer and
[31:30] then it was October, my birthday month,
[31:32] and things were really quieting down.
[31:33] 2020,
[31:34] >> things were very much quieting down in
[31:36] our area anyway. There was much on the
[31:39] island. Yeah. The the wave had passed
[31:41] and so I was like, "Okay, this is my
[31:43] time." So October, my birthday month, I
[31:46] sent in that letter and then I was done.
[31:49] And on my last day that when I was
[31:52] finished seeing my very last patient, so
[31:55] last day, last patient,
[31:57] >> five o'clock.
[31:58] >> Yeah. I walked out of the clinic and I
[32:01] got into my car and I ugly cried for 15
[32:05] minutes. Wow.
[32:06] >> I just cried. It just all came pouring
[32:09] out cuz I knew I wasn't going back and I
[32:11] knew that that was the end. And I just
[32:14] had visions of my 17-year-old self who
[32:18] had all like stareyed. I want to be a
[32:21] doctor. Got into medical school, had
[32:23] worked so hard, and it was all over. And
[32:27] I wasn't going to see patients anymore.
[32:29] And I wasn't going to be Dr. Foster
[32:32] anymore. Like, it was all at a chapter
[32:35] end so clearly. And so that was identity
[32:40] grief for me. What I recognize now is
[32:42] that it was like a cathartic moment of
[32:45] letting that old identity go.
[32:49] >> And it was it was huge.
[32:51] >> How long did it take for you to step
[32:52] into the new identity after leaving
[32:55] being a doctor?
[32:56] >> The next five minutes.
[32:58] >> Really?
[32:58] >> Yes.
[32:59] >> So you cried out. You're [laughter]
[33:00] like, but you'd also processed for a
[33:02] year before.
[33:02] >> I had been processing for I all of my
[33:05] stuff on that. I was ready. And then I
[33:07] had actually been ready and then was
[33:09] sort of held back by the world global
[33:12] crisis. And so yeah, so then I stopped
[33:16] crying and I turned on the music. I put
[33:18] the windows down and it was a beautiful
[33:20] day and I drove home and I felt so free.
[33:23] >> Freedom.
[33:24] >> Total complete freedom. Like I own my
[33:27] day. I own my life again and I can do
[33:31] whatever I want.
[33:32] >> And I mean I knew what I wanted to do
[33:33] cuz it was already very much in play. I
[33:35] didn't
[33:35] >> I mean I did in some ways I think of
[33:37] myself as leaping out of a parach
[33:39] airplane without a parachute but I knew
[33:42] what I was going to do.
[33:44] >> Yeah.
[33:44] >> Now you also disagree with the self-help
[33:47] advice that some people give where they
[33:49] focus on shaming people into becoming a
[33:52] better person or a new person or
[33:53] changing their beliefs or habits.
[33:56] >> Why does shaming people to improve who
[33:59] they are not actually help them?
[34:02] It's a really easy thing to think and we
[34:04] all kind of do this. So we we want to
[34:06] make a change because we I mean if it's
[34:09] weight, we catch a photograph of
[34:11] ourselves and we're like is that what I
[34:12] look like? I'm disgusting. I need to
[34:14] make a change now. So we do this as kind
[34:16] of a knee-jerk reaction. And it is quite
[34:20] normal, I think, to initially want to
[34:23] make a change out of that feeling of
[34:26] kind of self-loathing. But we know that
[34:28] self-loathing is never how you're going
[34:30] to actually make a long-standing change.
[34:32] It is so much more helpful to make a
[34:35] change because you love yourself. I
[34:38] mean, cliche it sounds, but it's
[34:40] absolutely true and backed up by
[34:42] research is that you want to
[34:45] >> if we just stick with the weight loss
[34:47] example, for example, um lose weight and
[34:50] become fit and healthy because you love
[34:53] your body, not because you hate your
[34:55] body. it's just so much more effective
[34:58] long term. It's you're going to be able
[35:00] to stick with it because again the idea
[35:02] is sustainability, right? So, as I said,
[35:05] when I was practicing, people would do
[35:07] stuff temporarily
[35:09] um and then they'd come back and they're
[35:10] like, I went back to the way that it
[35:12] was. And so if you're making a change
[35:14] because you hate yourself or you're so
[35:16] mad about that you've let yourself fall
[35:19] into this pattern or that you are so
[35:21] useless or whatever whatever negative
[35:23] thing that you're telling yourself.
[35:25] >> It's that's not a sustainable way of
[35:27] staying motivated.
[35:29] >> Yeah. Some of the people in this uh
[35:32] personal development space talk about
[35:35] stacking habits.
[35:36] >> A lot of people say you know just stack
[35:38] these habits. you know, if you're
[35:39] running, also listen to something or
[35:41] also do this or whatever it might be or
[35:42] drinking water. It's like how do you
[35:44] stack two or three habits at a time uh
[35:46] in order to shift the person you want to
[35:48] become. So your approach is a little bit
[35:50] different though. You say we should be
[35:53] putting belief before ritual. Why is
[35:56] that?
[35:56] >> I love habit stacking. like I love those
[35:59] tactics and those strategies. And I
[36:01] think that there are a lot of great
[36:04] techniques and um approaches that you
[36:06] can take in order to help to facilitate
[36:09] the change that you want to make and
[36:11] make the actions that you want to take
[36:13] easier. But if that's all you're doing,
[36:16] you really are just addressing things on
[36:18] that one surface level. you're not
[36:21] really. So, you can maybe like make some
[36:24] changes and stack some habits onto
[36:26] something that you're already doing. But
[36:28] again, like we were saying before, if
[36:30] you on a hard day, a tough week, if you
[36:34] fundamentally don't believe yourself to
[36:36] be that kind of person, then it's just
[36:38] so much easier to be like, I don't
[36:41] really that's not me anyway. And then
[36:44] you know it yes sure it's I have a stack
[36:46] of habits but maybe if I just lop off
[36:47] the top couple st like who's going to it
[36:51] just feels more comfortable anyway. So
[36:53] yes absolutely do all of those bite-size
[36:55] habits stack your habits create a
[36:57] trigger create a reward. All of those
[36:59] things are so great but you also at the
[37:03] same time need to be addressing that
[37:05] deeper foundational identity level. It's
[37:08] like the example that I often the
[37:10] metaphor that I give is like your
[37:11] operating system and your apps. So the
[37:14] apps are like your goals and your habits
[37:16] and habit stacking and all that stuff.
[37:17] But when you so you can download all
[37:19] kinds of fancy new apps, but you open up
[37:22] your phone and those apps are glitching
[37:24] or they're not loading or they're
[37:25] crashing or whatever is happening. What
[37:28] you realize is that the operating system
[37:30] is hasn't been updated in a couple of
[37:32] years. You need to update that operating
[37:35] system so that the apps can run
[37:37] correctly in your actual life on a not
[37:41] just on your best day, but on a random
[37:43] Tuesday when things are really tough
[37:45] otherwise in your life or you're busy or
[37:47] you're tired or the kids need you or
[37:50] whatever needs you.
[37:51] >> Yeah. If someone listening or watching
[37:53] right now is stuck on a pattern that
[37:55] they find hard to break, where do they
[37:57] actually start today that you think will
[37:59] help them to become a better person?
[38:01] Well, the very first thing of course is
[38:03] that recognize step. So that's when you
[38:05] really need to rather than blaming the
[38:08] habit or blaming yourself or blaming
[38:11] external circumstances or genetics or
[38:15] whatever it is that you know you're
[38:16] blaming on the outside is to really
[38:18] recognize the story that you have been
[38:21] running underneath. Really recognize
[38:24] that oh I've not really been thinking
[38:26] that this is available to me. I have
[38:29] really been thinking that I am this kind
[38:31] of person, not that kind of person. And
[38:34] those kinds of statements, that's just
[38:36] stories that we we don't just make them
[38:39] up randomly. I mean, it comes to us from
[38:41] a whole bunch of accumulated evidence
[38:43] and sources as we're growing up and
[38:46] going through life. So, it's not just
[38:48] random. It came from somewhere, but it
[38:50] still is a story. And since it's a story
[38:53] that was written means it can be
[38:55] rewritten into something else. And so
[38:58] that's really the the starting point is
[39:00] to just get curious and question and and
[39:04] detached curiosity is is so key because
[39:06] we can beat ourselves up. Be like why do
[39:08] I why have I always believed this? Oh,
[39:10] I'm such I'm the worst. And that's not
[39:12] helpful either. So, you know, it's a
[39:14] matter of becoming it's just granting
[39:16] yourself some grace and saying, "Well,
[39:17] of course, this is what I've been
[39:19] thinking because there's been a whole
[39:20] lot of proof that I've been accumulating
[39:22] for, you know, how I'm going to live and
[39:27] exist in the world."
[39:28] >> Yeah. What's the biggest thing you
[39:30] struggle with today still after knowing
[39:32] all that you know from creating your
[39:34] content, coaching people, writing the
[39:36] book? Where do you struggle around
[39:38] identity? My favorite lab currently for
[39:41] personal development and identity is
[39:43] golf. So I've become completely obsessed
[39:45] with golf. Really? Yes. Completely
[39:47] obsessed. And that's because and one of
[39:50] the things that I absolutely love about
[39:51] it is that it is such a pure personal
[39:55] development lab. It shows all of your
[39:58] stuff. If I am distracted, if I am not
[40:01] trusting myself, it shows up in the
[40:04] flight of the ball immediately. And uh
[40:07] and I love that. So committing to my
[40:10] shot but then being totally detached
[40:14] from the outcome is the key that I have
[40:17] learned and that's what I'm practicing
[40:18] all the time. And that applies not just
[40:20] to golf obviously [laughter]
[40:22] um but to life. So making a decision,
[40:25] being fully committed to the swing, to
[40:28] the action, whatever it is that you're
[40:29] taking, but then not making it mean
[40:33] something if if it catches a bad bounce,
[40:36] if it the wind catches it, like whatever
[40:38] the these are life circumstances. And
[40:41] so, you know, be but not making that
[40:44] mean that I didn't do my job of being
[40:46] making the decision, being committed,
[40:49] and doing the thing, and then detaching
[40:50] from it.
[40:51] >> Wow. What do you think most people get
[40:53] wrong in the self-help space about
[40:56] motivation and goal setting?
[40:58] >> I think that people do focus excessively
[41:01] on the goal. Like what is this goal that
[41:04] I need to achieve? Actually, I mean,
[41:06] honestly, as as boring as it might be,
[41:08] to go back to the golf example, too,
[41:09] right? Like, so the goal clearly is to
[41:12] get the ball in the hole, right?
[41:14] >> Um there's a lot of different ways that
[41:16] you can get there and um and it's a
[41:19] matter of
[41:21] Like I said, detaching from that goal,
[41:24] but who are you being in that whole
[41:26] process is so much more important than
[41:29] whether you actually achieve that goal.
[41:31] Um, you know, you can have a great
[41:34] committed swing and then it ends up in
[41:37] the rough and you are you can be all mad
[41:40] about that for a long time, but
[41:42] ultimately you have to walk over and be
[41:43] like, okay, this is where we are and
[41:46] that's where the hole is and so how am I
[41:48] going to get there now? So it's but who
[41:50] are you being in that moment? How are
[41:52] you handling the adversity? So that's
[41:54] why who you're being like your identity
[41:57] is so much more important than just
[41:59] achieving the goal, which is just one
[42:01] metric. It's just one marker, but
[42:03] there's so much more that goes into it.
[42:05] >> The School of Greatness is brought to
[42:06] you in partnership with Airbnb. One of
[42:09] my favorite parts of travel is when a
[42:11] trip gives you a feeling you can't
[42:12] really plan for. You're walking through
[42:14] a new city in the morning. You're
[42:16] grabbing coffee. You're talking to
[42:18] someone local and suddenly the place
[42:20] feels a little bit more familiar. These
[42:22] are the moments that stay with me.
[42:24] They're the things that I crave. Not
[42:26] just the photos, but the feeling of
[42:28] being somewhere new and still finding
[42:31] meaningful connection. And that's what I
[42:33] love about Airbnb. When you're away
[42:35] having your own adventure, your home
[42:37] doesn't have to just sit empty either.
[42:40] You can share your space on Airbnb and
[42:42] give another traveler a chance to fall
[42:44] in love with your city the way that you
[42:46] fall in love with the places that you
[42:48] visit. And maybe there's a big game
[42:50] coming up. Or maybe people are coming in
[42:52] for a once in a-lifetime concert. They
[42:54] need a place that feels comfortable and
[42:56] inviting. And the income from sharing
[42:58] your home can help pay for your own
[43:01] trips. Your home might be worth more
[43:03] than you think. Find out how much at
[43:06] airbnb.com/host.
[43:09] What's a mental reframe
[43:11] that people need to apply when they have
[43:15] self-doubt?
[43:16] >> Selfdoubt is a fascinating kind of thing
[43:20] and I think it kind of gets a bad rap
[43:23] because we think that we shouldn't have
[43:25] self if I think that a lot of people
[43:27] feel like if I feeling self-doubt that
[43:29] must mean something about my capability
[43:33] or about what's possible or maybe this
[43:35] is the wrong thing. maybe I can't really
[43:38] do this. Um, so for me, the goal isn't
[43:41] to never have self-doubt. It's to manage
[43:44] to figure out how to work through it.
[43:46] The story that I think of most when I
[43:48] think about self-doubt in my own life um
[43:50] was when I was a resident and the very
[43:52] first time likely so I'm working in the
[43:53] hospital and it's it's very tough and
[43:56] I'm on call that night and it's the
[43:58] middle of the night and we get called to
[43:59] a code. So that's when somebody's having
[44:01] cardiac arrest. Wow. So and I'm in so
[44:03] I'm in first year so I'm very new on the
[44:05] team. They're having a heart attack in
[44:07] the hospital.
[44:07] >> They are in the hospital. Yeah. Code
[44:09] cardiac arrest in the hospital. So, we
[44:10] have to do the resuscitation and the
[44:12] defibrillation, everything.
[44:13] >> That's a lot. Yes. Quite intense.
[44:15] >> Oh, yeah. But it happened all the time.
[44:17] Like this was quite quite normal.
[44:19] >> Every week,
[44:20] >> almost every shift that you're on
[44:22] >> someone's having a heart attack every
[44:24] shift.
[44:24] >> Almost. Yeah. Yeah. Typically, if Yeah.
[44:28] You bring the whole thing in. This is
[44:30] >> Wow, that's intense.
[44:31] >> Yeah. Yeah. Your adrenaline must always
[44:32] be on
[44:33] >> always because [laughter] because mostly
[44:35] you're getting woken up out of the
[44:36] >> out of a dead sleep and then you're
[44:38] running before you're even fully awake
[44:40] down in the hospital. Yes.
[44:42] >> That's intense. That is like survival
[44:44] energy constantly. Right.
[44:45] >> Constantly. Yes.
[44:46] >> You're surviving to make someone else
[44:47] survive.
[44:48] >> Exactly. Yeah.
[44:49] >> Holy
[44:49] >> Yeah. Yeah. We get called to this code.
[44:51] It's my first. So I'm like I said
[44:53] junior. And so you're what senior res.
[44:56] >> How old was I? 25.
[44:59] Wow. Something like that.
[45:01] And um my senior resident is running the
[45:03] code. So he's interpreting the rhythms
[45:05] and he's looking at and deciding what
[45:07] medications need to be given, what needs
[45:09] to happen next, and he tells me to take
[45:12] over chest compressions. So chest So
[45:15] >> right, eight years of studying now. It's
[45:16] ready.
[45:17] >> Here we are. Yeah. Go time. Um so I
[45:20] climb up onto the bed to do the chest
[45:21] compressions. And uh up until this
[45:24] point, I've only ever done them on a
[45:25] mannequin, you know, practice. So, I'm
[45:28] I'm start doing the chest compressions
[45:30] and they're like, "No, more deeper."
[45:32] Because you really need to compress the
[45:34] chest enough to get squeeze the blood
[45:36] through the heart so that they can start
[45:38] to see a blip on the monitor that you're
[45:40] actually pushing blood through the body.
[45:42] >> So, so I start going deeper and then I
[45:44] feel the ribs
[45:46] >> crack. No. Oh, no. And they say that's
[45:49] normal.
[45:50] >> And and I I flinch, of course, cuz I
[45:52] just cracked a guy's ribs.
[45:54] >> Oh, god. And I looked up and my my
[45:57] senior resident, his eyes met me and he
[45:59] just nodded. He's like, "Keep going.
[46:01] >> Keep going."
[46:02] >> Because that's what you had to do.
[46:04] >> Gosh.
[46:05] >> Right. So I just had to keep going. So
[46:08] that was a pure moment of self-doubt.
[46:10] I'm like, "Of course."
[46:11] >> Said, "Yes, go." And you're like, "Yeah,
[46:13] crack crack."
[46:14] >> And every few thrusts I would just I'd
[46:16] be cracking more ribs. And this is it so
[46:19] anathema to what you're supposed to be
[46:21] doing as a doctor. Trying to save
[46:22] someone, not break their bones people.
[46:24] Yes. Breaking their body. So anyway, but
[46:27] I think about that because in that
[46:29] moment of doubt like I don't I can't am
[46:31] I supposed to keep doing this? Is this
[46:33] right? This feels wrong. My resident was
[46:35] there to look at me and say yes. Keep
[46:38] going.
[46:39] >> In life we rarely have the equivalent of
[46:42] a senior resident who's like, "It's
[46:44] fine. I know you're uncomfortable. I
[46:46] know this feels weird and wrong, but you
[46:48] have to keep going because you're doing
[46:50] the right thing." And so I often think
[46:52] of like, okay, well,
[46:53] >> I'm feeling this self-doubt. Is it the
[46:55] still the right thing that I am doing to
[46:57] keep going here and keep pressing
[46:59] forward even though I don't have my
[47:01] resident there nodding at me to keep
[47:02] going? But we can create that for
[47:04] ourselves.
[47:04] >> Wow. This is just a curiosity. Did you
[47:07] always break someone's ribs or was it
[47:09] like sometimes it was like
[47:10] >> Well, he was particularly elderly this
[47:12] guy. So yes, he had very fragile bones,
[47:15] but it's not uncommon. It's not uncommon
[47:18] at all.
[47:18] >> Oh no.
[47:19] >> Yeah. Gosh, [laughter] that's not fun.
[47:21] >> Yeah, but it has to be done,
[47:24] >> man. That's not fun. Yeah,
[47:25] >> because it's life or death. I guess that
[47:27] moment. It's like you have to do
[47:28] whatever it takes to save a life.
[47:30] >> Yes.
[47:30] >> Even it means cracking up your ribs.
[47:33] >> Oh my gosh.
[47:34] >> I broke three ribs twice back to back
[47:37] years. And I just So I just know the
[47:39] pain of that. It's
[47:39] >> It's so painful. It is exquisitly
[47:41] painful. There's a lot of nerve endings
[47:43] in your rib cage.
[47:44] >> You can't breathe for months. You're
[47:46] like you can't move. Mhm.
[47:48] >> I want to know how someone could become
[47:50] more magnetic if someone doesn't feel
[47:52] like they're energetically attractive,
[47:55] like they don't create opportunities for
[47:57] themselves, like they're not developing
[47:59] luck every single day for themselves.
[48:02] What are a few small habits that can
[48:05] make you instantly more magnetic?
[48:08] [clears throat]
[48:08] >> Yeah, this was actually quite a popular
[48:10] video on my YouTube channel. Um, a
[48:14] little unexpectedly. I mean, we make
[48:15] these videos and then you never know.
[48:18] Yeah. Um, but I really had a lot of fun
[48:20] with this one and um,
[48:22] >> the core of it certainly is I mean, it's
[48:25] the stuff that we've been talking about
[48:26] is your identity. So, you first of all
[48:28] need to stop telling yourself that
[48:30] you're not magnetic or that you're not
[48:32] confident or any of that kind of thing.
[48:34] Because
[48:35] >> when you carry that energy, that does a
[48:38] couple of things. First, it limits what
[48:40] you even put yourself out for. you just
[48:42] decide you don't even see opportunities
[48:45] >> because you've already predecided that
[48:47] that's not for you. So that's the first
[48:49] thing really is to decide that uh it's
[48:52] just find a more empowering identity and
[48:55] again maybe like the the big mag I'm a
[48:59] super attractor like that might be too
[49:01] far create a bridge a bridge identity
[49:03] yeah you can absolutely do that and then
[49:05] start to gather proof for that. Um but
[49:07] then the other sort of more practical
[49:09] thing would be and this also comes from
[49:12] having a disempowering identity is to
[49:14] stop monitoring yourself so much.
[49:17] >> What does that mean?
[49:18] >> So you are checking in like I'm see how
[49:21] am I coming across? How do I look? How
[49:24] do I sound? Am I what am I doing with my
[49:26] hands? Am I awkward now? that kind of
[49:28] thing, which pulls you right out of the
[49:30] energy of actually being present in the
[49:33] room and present with another person and
[49:35] listening to what's happening. Um,
[49:38] because you're just all entirely in your
[49:40] own head.
[49:41] >> Self focused.
[49:42] >> Self focused.
[49:42] >> Be outward focused. That's selffocused.
[49:45] >> Okay. What's the next tiny little habit?
[49:48] >> Another one is pause. Slow down. So
[49:52] rather than rushing into a thing and
[49:55] just blurting something out because you
[49:57] need to fill that silence or fill that
[49:59] awkwardness, just pausing, taking your
[50:03] time. And again, that's a present, being
[50:05] present kind of thing. And the first
[50:09] time that I learned that was actually
[50:11] also in medical residency. See, this is
[50:13] the thing is that I actually learned a
[50:15] ton about myself and life and people
[50:18] going through that training because it's
[50:20] so intense. There's so much going on.
[50:22] So, and again, I get to bring that all
[50:24] with me even though I'm not practicing
[50:26] clinically anymore. Um, but yeah, I was
[50:28] doing a radiology rotation, so it's like
[50:30] X-rays, reading images and films and
[50:32] things. And so, uh, the attending
[50:36] physician would put a film up. This is
[50:37] when we used film, not digital, but
[50:40] anyway, put a film up. And, uh, and he'd
[50:43] say, "Okay, so Dr. Foster, what do you
[50:46] see?"
[50:47] And the impulse of course is just to
[50:49] like immediately just grasp at something
[50:52] because it's awkward. Everybody is
[50:54] there. It's like a a large group. It's
[50:55] not just a sing we're doing rounds and
[50:57] it's a big group of people. I trained
[50:59] myself to not immediately grasp for the
[51:02] first answer to just look and be okay
[51:05] with there being silence as I'm
[51:07] processing and and read it and then
[51:11] start to come with my initial thoughts,
[51:13] my initial impressions, that kind of
[51:15] thing. Um, and it was really tough and
[51:19] but I trained myself to do that and it
[51:21] made a big difference I think. And uh,
[51:24] one of the senior residents on the team
[51:26] actually pulled me aside and he's like
[51:28] really you've got great composure. You
[51:31] really it's like impressive how when
[51:33] they ask you a question, you're not just
[51:34] like babbling and blurting something
[51:37] out. And uh, that
[51:40] >> probably feels like a lifetime. But if
[51:41] it's 5 to 10 seconds when everyone's
[51:43] waiting for you to answer, you're like
[51:46] >> just pausing, observing, and you're
[51:48] like,
[51:50] >> "Okay, now I'll answer." You know, it
[51:52] seems it's like a lifetime,
[51:53] >> right? And it feels like it looks like
[51:55] on the inside it looks like you're
[51:56] uncertain and you don't know and you're,
[51:58] you know, too new, but on the outside it
[52:00] actually reads as composure and
[52:03] confidence that you're gathering
[52:04] yourself. you're assessing the situation
[52:07] properly and taking your time so that
[52:09] you're not rushing into an answer.
[52:12] >> Interesting.
[52:13] >> Was there another tiny habit that you
[52:14] liked?
[52:14] >> I like eye contact.
[52:17] >> I think that I and especially my
[52:19] goodness now eye contact like
[52:22] everybody's looking down.
[52:23] >> It's crazy how we are becoming so not
[52:27] used to looking at people. Uh, and yeah,
[52:31] I mean it it's I I think it makes a huge
[52:33] difference like even an extra couple of
[52:35] beats of eye contact with someone like
[52:37] with a stranger um the barista at the
[52:40] coffee shop or somebody that you pass by
[52:43] or anybody and it really it that even
[52:47] just like two extra seconds makes that
[52:49] extra connection and I think that makes
[52:51] a huge difference.
[52:52] >> Makes you more magnetic.
[52:53] >> Yeah,
[52:54] >> I love those. Those are easy things that
[52:56] people can do every single day. What
[52:58] would you say is the difference between
[52:59] being magnetic and being performative?
[53:03] >> It can be very tricky in the beginning
[53:06] to to distinguish those things. And
[53:08] that's because in the beginning it can
[53:11] actually be a little bit of a
[53:13] performance, right? Like because it's
[53:15] not you're not used to it yet. It's not
[53:18] natural. But I think we can confuse
[53:20] something feeling comfortable with
[53:22] something being inauthentic. It's not
[53:24] necessarily inauthentic. You are
[53:27] working. You can work towards inhabiting
[53:30] a a new identity, a new presence for
[53:33] yourself, a new way of being. And it's
[53:35] okay that it feels uncomfortable. It
[53:37] doesn't mean that something has gone
[53:39] wrong in the beginning. And so it's over
[53:43] time things start to every new action or
[53:46] behavior feels uncomfortable to people
[53:48] in the beginning. It's after it's over a
[53:50] period of time and with reps that it
[53:52] starts to feel more like, yeah, this is
[53:54] actually just how I operate. M you're
[53:56] six years removed now from being a
[53:58] full-time doctor.
[53:59] >> Yeah.
[54:00] >> If you could go back to the, you know,
[54:04] the morning of the last day when you
[54:05] were a doctor, your last day of practice
[54:08] before you ugly cried at the end of the
[54:10] [clears throat] day and
[54:11] >> were free and could finally walk out in
[54:13] the forest like you wanted to a year
[54:14] before that.
[54:16] >> Uh what advice would you give her right
[54:19] now, six years ago, the day you were
[54:21] about to leave being a doctor? It's kind
[54:24] of interesting. I would tell her it's
[54:26] it's absolutely going to be okay. You
[54:28] are absolutely doing the right thing.
[54:30] Except at the time I actually knew that
[54:33] >> and
[54:34] >> but you didn't know what you'd create.
[54:35] >> I didn't know what I was going to
[54:36] create. So yes, I mean now the
[54:38] validation has come. Now the proof has
[54:41] all come and so yes, it would have been
[54:46] nice to have received some extra
[54:47] reassurance that like it's going to be
[54:49] completely fine. You are 100% making the
[54:52] right decision. You're going to be so
[54:53] happy on the other side of it and it's
[54:56] going to be all worthwhile.
[54:57] >> Do you feel like it's um it's all been
[55:01] worth it?
[55:02] >> Yeah. Really?
[55:03] >> It's all been worth it. It's all been
[55:04] worth it. Not just the walking away, but
[55:06] also the doing, the training, deciding.
[55:10] People have asked me if I regretted
[55:12] going into medicine, and I absolutely
[55:14] don't. It made me who I am. And again, I
[55:17] don't have to abandon that. I don't have
[55:19] to pretend that I didn't go to medical
[55:22] school, that I wasn't a doctor. Um, it
[55:25] does require some explanation
[55:27] afterwards. And even now, people still
[55:29] don't really understand. I think I met
[55:31] somebody last month who didn't really
[55:33] understand why I'd stopped practicing
[55:35] medicine. And it's a pretty long story,
[55:37] and we didn't have 90 minutes to go
[55:38] through it like we are.
[55:39] >> Because most people don't become a
[55:40] doctor and then stop.
[55:41] >> Most people don't.
[55:42] >> They just do it forever. Yeah. Right.
[55:44] >> Yeah. And I do catch actually quite a
[55:45] bit of criticism on my YouTube channel
[55:47] for that. Whenever I do actually address
[55:50] the fact that I left medicine and maybe
[55:52] talk a little bit about that, there are
[55:54] definitely some people who don't
[55:55] appreciate it and don't understand.
[55:58] >> Uh there's various criticisms. I mean,
[55:59] one that does come up quite a bit is
[56:01] that I took a spot in medical school
[56:03] away from somebody who would practice
[56:05] forever. And I'm like, well, I did
[56:06] practice for 20 years. That's a long
[56:08] time.
[56:08] >> That's actually quite a bit of time. I
[56:10] didn't just abandon it immediately. And
[56:12] I didn't go into it thinking I'm going
[56:14] to stop doing it. I mean, that would
[56:16] have been a different story if I had
[56:17] done that. Exactly. But still, I But I,
[56:19] as with all YouTube commenters, I think,
[56:21] okay, well, this person, maybe they had
[56:23] actually wanted to go to medical school
[56:25] and they didn't get in. So, I totally
[56:26] understand that there could be other
[56:28] things that I do not understand about
[56:30] their lens.
[56:31] >> And it doesn't mean you can't still help
[56:32] people in a doctor mindset. You know, if
[56:35] someone's sick or hurting, you could
[56:37] give them, I guess, some type of
[56:39] treatment that you're aware of. And you
[56:40] can't prescribe something, but you can
[56:43] say, "Oh, we need to get you stitches.
[56:45] We need to do this. You should go see
[56:46] someone to get you this medicine."
[56:48] >> You can give them insights based on what
[56:51] you know to still help people.
[56:52] >> Totally. And the Yeah, the knowledge is
[56:55] all still there. And I think the
[56:58] reassurance is there too. I remember I
[57:00] was working in a clinic and a guy fell
[57:02] down on the sidewalk just outside of the
[57:04] clinic. And so somebody said, "Oh, you
[57:06] know, come out and see this And I went
[57:07] out and saw him and and I said, "It's
[57:10] okay. I'm a doctor." And the relief on
[57:14] his face, in his eyes, I mean, I wasn't
[57:16] going to do anything other than he
[57:18] needed to get his but just to know just
[57:21] to go from being a guy on a pavement who
[57:24] just hit his head and was very confused
[57:26] to suddenly having somebody standing
[57:27] over him saying, "I'm a doctor." That
[57:30] relief was there. And then I And so I
[57:33] get to I'm not going to practice
[57:34] medicine. Yes. obviously, but that that
[57:37] role I mean those are the sorts of
[57:38] things though that kind of role
[57:40] [clears throat] in society was part of
[57:41] what kept me in it for a long time.
[57:43] >> Of course. Yeah. And if you're on a
[57:45] plane, if someone's going through
[57:46] something, you can go and support them
[57:47] or whatever. If someone faints, if
[57:49] someone has an issue or whatever,
[57:51] >> it's so much more about the reassurance
[57:53] and support, not necessarily like
[57:56] exactly technically what I would do.
[57:58] >> So, I still get to inhabit that role.
[58:01] >> It's exciting. [laughter] um you got
[58:03] this book out called Redesigning You,
[58:05] which is about how to change your inner
[58:06] story to transform your health. And I
[58:09] want everyone to go get this book
[58:10] because for me, um from all the the
[58:14] information that I've learned on this
[58:15] show, I truly believe that identity is
[58:18] at the root of so many things. And when
[58:21] we have an identity or a belief about
[58:23] ourselves
[58:25] that is limiting us,
[58:27] >> it's going to be hard to create an
[58:29] abundant free life. But when we learn
[58:32] the tools on how to shift the identity
[58:35] and the story and the beliefs about who
[58:36] we are and we start living into them
[58:39] with new evidence and start building the
[58:42] identity brick by brick with new
[58:44] evidence, it unlocks a whole new world
[58:47] of possibilities for us. It unlocks
[58:49] better health, better relationships,
[58:52] more financial freedom, better
[58:54] opportunities, better relationships with
[58:56] friends, whatever it might be that we
[58:57] want. Shifting our identity creates
[59:00] better opportunities. So for me, I want
[59:03] people to get the book Redesigning You
[59:06] by Kim Foster. There's a lot of great
[59:08] content in here, a lot of great mindset,
[59:10] strategies, information, and tools that
[59:13] will support you in shifting out of the
[59:17] things that block you into the things
[59:19] that help you create breakthroughs. So,
[59:21] I'm very excited about you having this
[59:23] book and people can check out your
[59:25] YouTube channel. You got a lot more
[59:26] great content there. Before I ask the
[59:29] final couple questions, I want to
[59:31] acknowledge you, Kim, for taking that
[59:32] leap because that's not easy to do
[59:34] >> and for, you know, where a lot of people
[59:37] might have criticized you for leaving. I
[59:39] want to acknowledge you for leaving
[59:40] because you were stepping into who you
[59:42] believed you were meant to be.
[59:44] >> And you stepped into, not that you
[59:46] weren't helping a lot of people as a
[59:48] doctor, but now you're able to help more
[59:50] people with what you love in a new
[59:53] level, in a new identity. And I think
[59:55] it's a beautiful testimony to what's
[59:58] possible for people. So, I want to
[1:00:00] acknowledge you for being on this
[1:00:01] journey, for constantly evolving and
[1:00:04] helping people. Even though it's not
[1:00:07] what your 17-year-old self set out to
[1:00:09] do, I think it's what she truly wanted
[1:00:11] to be, which is how you can serve the
[1:00:14] maximum number of people. And your
[1:00:16] videos and your coaching and your book
[1:00:18] are able to reach more people at a time
[1:00:20] rather than you one-on-one. And so
[1:00:23] there's no right or wrong, but I feel
[1:00:25] like uh that's truly what your heart
[1:00:27] desired and you're doing it. So I
[1:00:28] acknowledge you for that.
[1:00:29] >> Thank you so much for that, Lewis. I
[1:00:31] really appreciate that.
[1:00:31] >> Yeah, it's inspiring to see and I can't
[1:00:33] wait to see more of your stuff online.
[1:00:36] Um this is a question called the three
[1:00:37] truths. I ask it towards the end.
[1:00:40] Imagine you get to live as long as you
[1:00:41] want uh and create whatever you want,
[1:00:43] but it's the last day for you and you
[1:00:45] have to take all of your work with you.
[1:00:46] So the book, your content, it's all gone
[1:00:48] from this world. And you only get to
[1:00:50] leave behind three final lessons to the
[1:00:52] world. That's all we would have of your
[1:00:54] content. What would those three truths
[1:00:56] be for you?
[1:00:57] >> Truth number one is that you're not
[1:01:00] fixed. I think that we really
[1:01:02] underestimate how much we can actually
[1:01:05] change and evolve over the course of a
[1:01:06] lifetime. And yes, your history
[1:01:09] absolutely influences you, but it
[1:01:11] doesn't dictate what's possible for you.
[1:01:14] And I like to say your past is not your
[1:01:16] prophecy.
[1:01:18] >> So that's truth number one. And then uh
[1:01:21] truth number two is don't confuse who
[1:01:25] you had to become with who you have to
[1:01:27] remain.
[1:01:29] >> So like the story that I was telling you
[1:01:31] about the survivor in me. So I had to
[1:01:33] become the survivor to get through what
[1:01:35] I was doing.
[1:01:36] >> Um and that I am very grateful for that
[1:01:40] identity. Wasn't a bad identity. It
[1:01:42] helped me achieve things and get through
[1:01:45] and but I don't have to remain that.
[1:01:48] That doesn't have to be what I stay
[1:01:51] doing forever. You are allowed to evolve
[1:01:55] beyond something that once served you
[1:01:58] beautifully. And then number three is
[1:02:01] your life is happening right now.
[1:02:04] because I think that um it's really easy
[1:02:08] to
[1:02:10] spend I know I spent a lot of time
[1:02:12] preparing for the next thing once I
[1:02:14] achieve this once the kids get older
[1:02:16] once I get more clarity
[1:02:18] >> and it's a bit of a it can be a trap for
[1:02:22] people who are ambitious to spend so
[1:02:23] much of their energy and time building
[1:02:26] the future but forget to inhabit the
[1:02:28] life that you're in right now. So you
[1:02:31] know take the trip, take the risk. Yes,
[1:02:34] >> be here for it.
[1:02:35] >> That's beautiful. And final question for
[1:02:38] you, Kim. What's your definition of
[1:02:39] greatness?
[1:02:40] >> So, my definition of greatness has
[1:02:42] actually changed quite a bit uh over the
[1:02:44] years. And I think that my younger self
[1:02:46] would have said that greatness is a lot
[1:02:51] about excellence. So discovering what
[1:02:54] you're capable of and then proving it
[1:02:57] and achieving really hard things and
[1:02:59] becoming exceptional at something that
[1:03:02] is ideally measurable and visible to
[1:03:05] other people.
[1:03:07] And uh but now I think that just
[1:03:10] greatness is much more about
[1:03:12] discernment. So meaning becoming really
[1:03:15] deeply discerning about what deserves
[1:03:19] your life because just because you're
[1:03:21] capable of doing something doesn't mean
[1:03:23] that you are obligated to do it. And of
[1:03:28] course that's my story too. And but I
[1:03:30] think that it's really important getting
[1:03:33] clear on what actually deserves your
[1:03:34] effort and your precious life and the
[1:03:38] years that you have and then going all
[1:03:40] in on that like giving yourself fully to
[1:03:42] that. Becoming discerning and giving
[1:03:45] yourself fully to that.
[1:03:46] >> That's beautiful. Kim, thank you so much
[1:03:48] for being here. Appreciate it.
[1:03:49] >> Yeah, it's my pleasure. It's great
[1:03:50] conversation. [music]
[1:03:51] >> Yeah. When we're not something positive,
[1:03:53] the compensation is do more of that. If
[1:03:55] I'm not loved, what am [music] I going
[1:03:57] to do? Try and become lovable. But
[1:03:59] there's a shadow side that came into my
[1:04:00] work maybe a decade ago. Like it was m
[1:04:03] like I was like, how come I'm talking to
[1:04:04] thousands of people and some of their
[1:04:06] conditions seem so much more macabb and
[1:04:09] dark and destructive? [music] And I
[1:04:11] really