Transcript
[0:01] Trauma is one of those things that's
[0:05] a catalyst
[0:08] for
[0:09] us to protect ourselves.
[0:13] We naturally want to shut down. We
[0:17] naturally want to distance ourselves
[0:22] and protect ourselves from being hurt
[0:25] again.
[0:30] That distance that we create is not
[0:33] peace.
[0:36] And the question asked was how do we
[0:39] tell between being disassociated after
[0:43] trauma and true spiritual peace sahed?
[0:49] And the difference is just in the
[0:51] flavor.
[0:53] While on the outside
[0:55] to the people around you they may look
[0:59] the same.
[1:01] Peace, stillness, tranquility has the
[1:05] flavor of joy.
[1:09] Trauma, disassociation
[1:12] has the feeling of being numb.
[1:16] The difference is just in the flavor
[1:20] within you and only you can answer
[1:24] whether you are in a state of joy or you
[1:28] are in a state of feeling numb.
[1:32] And maybe a different way for you to get
[1:35] clarity is what I'm feeling. Would I
[1:39] want to share that feeling with others?
[1:41] Would I want others to feel what I'm
[1:43] feeling?
[1:46] If it is coming from a place of joy, the
[1:49] answer will be yes, I want others to
[1:51] experience joy. And if it is a feeling
[1:54] of numbness,
[1:55] even if it doesn't feel like pain, even
[1:57] if it doesn't feel like
[2:00] bitterness,
[2:02] but it just feels like I'm okay. I don't
[2:06] need anyone. I'm okay. I've managed on
[2:09] my own. There's still an underlying pain
[2:11] there.
[2:13] there's still an underlying hurt
[2:18] and you yourself will be able to answer
[2:20] do I want others to experience what I'm
[2:23] experiencing
[2:25] not the trauma not the history but now
[2:27] what I'm feeling
[2:30] so you can only be the one that answers
[2:33] am I coming from a place of joy or am I
[2:37] numb am I hurt
[2:40] >> hi Paji I'm hoping you can help me
[2:43] refine a question so it becomes a a good
[2:45] question so I'll try to be as clear as
[2:47] possible um it was around the
[2:50] conversation of karma um and to add a
[2:55] little bit of context I think people
[2:57] will always go through particular
[2:58] challenges so as an example me and my
[3:00] wife there might be a challenge where
[3:03] you know maybe her expectation was that
[3:05] I will be the cleaner the the you know
[3:07] the person that will cook um I'm I'm
[3:10] obviously being fictitious But overall
[3:13] people have challenges and parents will
[3:15] then sometimes say oh you know do
[3:17] simmeran and you know that will solve
[3:21] the problem and then the saki or the
[3:22] story that comes along with it is the
[3:25] one where you know someone's in the
[3:26] forest they're walking uh one person
[3:28] gets gold and the other person hits a
[3:30] thorn because of the the sim that
[3:33] they've done and I guess the question is
[3:35] around when to be stubborn well not
[3:37] stubborn but being open-minded to say
[3:40] you know what I've got learning to do. I
[3:42] need to come with a open bowl so I can
[3:45] learn versus I just don't believe some
[3:48] of the things that are taught and you
[3:51] know to being confident in the own path
[3:54] that you're going in because a lot of
[3:56] the times in siki we will hear stuff
[3:59] that we don't sometimes believe and
[4:01] basically overall it's being unsure is
[4:03] it my own ego or um you know
[4:06] do I just follow um my path with
[4:09] confidence?
[4:11] You definitely do need help refining
[4:12] that question. [laughter]
[4:14] >> Yeah, please help.
[4:20] >> I think there's about 24 questions in
[4:22] there.
[4:24] >> Can I add one more to that? [laughter]
[4:27] Cuz there's a very similar question that
[4:29] came in. [clears throat] What is the
[4:30] difference between ego and confidence
[4:33] and humility and low self-esteem? Can
[4:36] being too humble undermine others
[4:38] judgment, others trust in your judgment?
[4:41] >> I don't think that's what he was asking.
[4:44] [laughter]
[4:51] >> I think for me, if I was to somehow
[4:54] distill that question down, it is which
[4:57] parts of my personality do I accept and
[5:00] which part parts of my personality do I
[5:02] need to change?
[5:12] One of the hardest things that I've had
[5:15] to do in my own life
[5:17] is learn to come to terms with
[5:22] parts of my own personality.
[5:28] And
[5:30] it's very easy
[5:33] for who you are
[5:36] to be
[5:39] molded by society,
[5:42] shaped by community,
[5:44] shaped by your parents, shaped by your
[5:49] family, your loved ones, your partners.
[5:52] And it is only through experience that I
[5:56] found that over time you come
[6:01] to be in peace with certain elements.
[6:04] You genuinely try at times. These are
[6:06] things I have to improve. I have to get
[6:09] better at this.
[6:11] One of the things I always say about our
[6:14] partnership, my wife and I, is the the
[6:18] thing that has kept us going for such a
[6:20] long time. We just celebrated our 20
[6:23] year wedding anniversary. And the thing
[6:25] that has kept us going is I genuinely
[6:28] know she doesn't judge me.
[6:31] I might judge myself. I might not be as
[6:35] kind to myself about why I act in
[6:38] certain ways. And the same is also true.
[6:43] We have both come to a point where we
[6:45] are very comfortable knowing who the
[6:48] other person is. Allowing who the other
[6:51] person is and in fact recognizing who
[6:55] you are is your strength. Who I am is my
[7:00] strength.
[7:02] Especially when it comes to couples and
[7:04] relationships in the early years, what
[7:07] you want is you want to mold the other
[7:10] person based on your personality. If I
[7:14] do this, this this and this, then I
[7:16] think that's right. So, I think you
[7:19] should be doing this and this as well.
[7:21] And the perfect partnership we found is
[7:24] one that actually turns the other
[7:27] person's personality into their
[7:30] strengths.
[7:31] These are the things that you're good
[7:33] at. These are the things that I'm good
[7:34] at. So, a trivial example, but one that
[7:37] we always know works for us is when
[7:42] something needs doing. I'm the technical
[7:45] guy. I do the research online. For
[7:48] example, we need to hire a plumber or
[7:50] something like that. I will go and do
[7:54] the research about what needs to be done
[7:56] and then I'll hand her a list and I'll
[7:58] say like these are the plumbers and off
[8:00] you go. And then she calls them, she
[8:02] books the appointments, she is at home
[8:04] when they come to to view and and and
[8:06] and see the problems to get the quotes.
[8:09] And we've just that's a trivial example,
[8:11] but we've come to an understanding where
[8:14] each we each other's strengths and
[8:16] weaknesses are, what we're good at, and
[8:19] we've molded our relationship into that.
[8:23] Now taking on from the the follow-up
[8:26] question around that which is how do you
[8:30] know which parts of your ego
[8:33] or humility which is good which is bad
[8:36] and this is where
[8:39] I always judge myself based on what is
[8:43] it that brings me peace. I don't even
[8:46] know if that's the right answer but for
[8:49] me that has been my guiding principle.
[8:52] Does this
[8:55] bring me peace?
[8:57] If it doesn't bring me peace, I have to
[8:59] be honest that that is how I am built. I
[9:01] am built in a way that this doesn't
[9:03] bring me peace. Sometimes you have to do
[9:05] things even if it doesn't bring you
[9:07] peace. Raising small children is a very
[9:10] good example of that. If you always
[9:12] answered it by does it bring me peace,
[9:14] you'd say actually I don't want to do
[9:15] it. It's a screaming baby. I don't want
[9:17] to deal with it.
[9:19] How I've understood that is can I live
[9:22] with that person then? Does that bring
[9:24] me peace? And I couldn't be at peace
[9:27] knowing that a child of mine is crying
[9:29] and I'm choosing to ignore it. So even
[9:31] though that specific scenario might be
[9:34] stressful, overall I've leed over time
[9:38] that I want to be a father that I can be
[9:41] proud of.
[9:43] I don't want to be the kind of person
[9:44] that says I don't deal with screaming
[9:47] babies,
[9:48] crying children because I want to be at
[9:51] peace. Long term I couldn't live with
[9:53] myself. So that has become a guiding
[9:56] principle for me.
[9:58] Does it bring me peace? Does it bring me
[10:00] peace? Does it bring me peace? And
[10:03] slowly slowly you realize that there's
[10:05] something in that
[10:07] peace being your guiding principle
[10:11] starts to then mold and shape your
[10:14] decisions.
[10:17] I don't know many people who are in
[10:20] their arrogance and are at peace.
[10:25] So that's when you begin to understand,
[10:27] oh, this is my ego,
[10:30] my
[10:32] self-righteousness. I'm right. They're
[10:34] wrong. I can't believe what they've done
[10:36] to me. That is not peace.
[10:39] You might feel justified.
[10:41] You might feel right.
[10:44] You might feel like you've taken the
[10:46] moral high ground, but you won't be at
[10:48] peace.
[10:49] Have you ever struggled to understand
[10:51] what the verses of Jupchis mean? That's
[10:55] why we've created a Jupchic translation
[10:57] into [music] English poetry that makes
[11:00] Gurunanak's wisdom clear, beautiful,
[11:02] [music] and simple to understand.
[11:05] Experience the beauty of Jupji in
[11:08] English like never before. Search for
[11:10] Jupji in English poetry on YouTube and
[11:14] Spotify.
[11:16] Thank you for giving us this opportunity
[11:17] to ask you guys um and for setting this
[11:20] all up and making it happen in England.
[11:22] Thank you. Um my question is about Siman
[11:25] and Nam Siman. We I know that in the
[11:29] gurbani it talks about siman all the
[11:31] time and that often our interpretation
[11:34] or many gudoare or many people say that
[11:37] sim is vahuru like the mantra vahuru and
[11:41] that if you at some point you get into
[11:44] sun and that you can hear certain things
[11:48] and you can taste etc. There's this like
[11:51] whole journey described. So is that
[11:56] simron and is that actually one of the
[11:59] key ways to connect?
[12:02] Thank you. So the question is what is
[12:06] siman? And when we hear explanations of
[12:10] it from various schools of thought, we
[12:13] hear that there are many stages to it
[12:15] and there are different experiences to
[12:17] to expect along the way.
[12:22] I want to be clear that
[12:25] whatever you hear today
[12:29] is only my interpretation
[12:32] is my understanding
[12:34] and I can never claim to give the
[12:37] definitive answer. In fact, nobody can
[12:40] because
[12:43] anything that they've heard and they've
[12:45] learned is then filtered through their
[12:48] own experiences,
[12:50] through their mind, through their
[12:52] expectations, through their traumas,
[12:56] and then they're going to understand it,
[12:58] interpret it based on that, and then
[13:01] teach based on that.
[13:05] For me, siman is not about some kind of
[13:10] yogic technique.
[13:13] And unfortunately,
[13:15] we see people interpreting siman as a
[13:20] technique.
[13:23] The word siman means to remember.
[13:29] The word remember means to remember
[13:34] to rejoin yourself to reconnect
[13:40] being a member of this oneness.
[13:44] We are separate from that and we have
[13:46] forgotten.
[13:48] My understanding of the guru's wisdom is
[13:52] that siman is literally just about do
[13:57] you remember where you are, who you are,
[14:01] where you come from, what you are a part
[14:03] of. That remembrance is not limited to
[14:07] one word. That remembrance is not
[14:11] limited to one technique.
[14:14] It is a shift in your understanding.
[14:19] How you get to that state is up to you.
[14:24] There may be techniques that work for
[14:26] you and there may be techniques that
[14:30] don't work for you.
[14:33] So this is where I encourage people to
[14:37] try things out.
[14:40] Try the techniques that you come across.
[14:43] See how they sit with you.
[14:46] But always use the primary source which
[14:51] are the teachings. Within the sik
[14:53] tradition,
[14:55] we're incredibly fortunate to have the
[14:59] firsthand accounts of the masters who
[15:02] taught these teachings.
[15:04] I don't think people understand that
[15:06] that is a rarity just in itself. to have
[15:10] a tradition where the master themsel
[15:12] wrote it down categorically so that
[15:14] there's no room for somebody to teach
[15:18] something else outside of what they what
[15:20] they were teaching.
[15:23] So always go back to that always
[15:25] validate it there. So if somebody is
[15:28] teaching you a particular type of siman
[15:30] what are they getting it from? Where
[15:32] that becomes difficult is where we have
[15:35] become disconnected from the teachings
[15:36] where we ourselves can't read that we
[15:38] can't interpret it we don't know so then
[15:40] we're reliant on secondhand inter
[15:42] information
[15:44] so that's where it is very important to
[15:47] learn the language to try and gain as
[15:49] much value out of that which is why the
[15:51] work that we do which is just bring it
[15:54] out to people in English in a language
[15:56] that we're all born and brought up with
[15:58] and we understand
[16:00] connect yourself back with the teachings
[16:02] Use whatever you're learning.
[16:06] Train yourself. Try it out. And then see
[16:08] how it sits. See how it fits.
[16:12] For me, what I learned when I tried all
[16:14] of these various techniques
[16:17] was some of them were going into
[16:21] deep states of stillness.
[16:24] And I thought, "Wow, this is profound."
[16:27] Some of them were going into quite
[16:30] excited, agitated states and I thought
[16:34] this is not for me. When I've tried the
[16:38] various techniques and reflected upon
[16:41] myself and the wisdom what I realized
[16:44] was for me love seems to be the one that
[16:47] works.
[16:49] So I personally connect more with the
[16:51] kithan, the music, the joy rather than
[16:56] the rigidity of some of these other
[16:59] techniques.
[17:01] But
[17:03] my personality is very different even to
[17:05] my own wife. She will regularly get up
[17:08] and go for a run. That's the furthest
[17:11] thing that I would ever want to do. I
[17:13] have no interest in that.
[17:16] So even within the same household, you
[17:19] have two people who will live two very
[17:21] different lives. She loves being active,
[17:24] being busy. I'm barely awake in the
[17:26] morning and I'm hearing her around the
[17:28] house like pottering about. She's got
[17:30] things to do. Whereas for me, she's
[17:33] understood actually leave him alone in
[17:35] the mornings. He wants to be by himself.
[17:37] Do you see? You have to learn how to
[17:39] just figure out what works for you. For
[17:41] me, what I found was love is just that
[17:46] allencompassing
[17:48] technique, if you want to call it that.
[17:51] And for me, love doesn't require a time
[17:54] or a place. Love is a space within my
[17:57] own self. Can I love this moment? Can I
[18:01] love this moment as a moment of God?
[18:06] Now, I don't care what anyone says at
[18:08] this point. You cannot tell me that for
[18:10] me this isn't siman.
[18:13] I am remembering. I am in a state of
[18:15] remembrance. I'm in a state of euphoria.
[18:18] And then when I go back to the teachings
[18:19] and I hear these love songs, gurbani is
[18:23] love songs. I'm listening to them and
[18:26] I'm saying, "Oh, I seem to be in a
[18:28] similar state to some of these songs
[18:30] that I'm I'm I'm seeing in the shaban."
[18:33] So I'm validated by that. But that's not
[18:35] to say that somebody else isn't
[18:36] experiencing something and validating
[18:38] that.
[18:39] But this is why I say you have to go
[18:41] back into the wisdom. No matter what
[18:44] when you look at all the different
[18:46] techniques ultimately there is an
[18:48] overarching technique. There is only one
[18:51] method which is which is to reduce your
[18:53] ego.
[18:56] That is something that you've got to be
[18:57] very wary of. I have heard people from
[19:00] various traditions and teach various
[19:02] techniques and you see they're so full
[19:06] of themselves.
[19:09] I had once a child come to me. She was a
[19:13] young lady, maybe 15, and she says, "My
[19:17] dad used to be such a nice person."
[19:21] And then he started going to this gard
[19:23] and they taught him how to do all these
[19:24] kinds of meditations, and now he comes
[19:26] home and he's a really judgmental
[19:28] person. He's judging the rest of us in
[19:30] the family saying, "You guys don't do
[19:31] siman. You guys are not doing good
[19:33] enough."
[19:34] And she says he was a better person
[19:36] before he used to go to the gura.
[19:39] You see what I mean? It doesn't matter
[19:41] what techniques you're following at that
[19:43] point. If it's increasing your sense of
[19:45] self-importance, then it's not working.
[19:48] That's where you must have the masters
[19:50] tell you what's working and what's not
[19:52] working.
[19:54] And the one overarching technique above
[19:56] everything else is reduce your
[19:58] self-importance. reduce your sense of me
[20:02] myself and my life and my problems and
[20:04] and my spirituality and I'm going to do
[20:06] this and I'm gonna I'm gonna connect
[20:08] with God and all these things that
[20:10] self-importance me me
[20:14] gurunanak categorically teaches you
[20:18] meditation is the opposite of me
[20:27] your ego and the divine name are in
[20:30] conflict with each other. Both cannot
[20:32] exist in one place.
[20:37] Guru wisdom is there for you. And I'm
[20:41] always encouraging people, please don't
[20:44] use language as an excuse anymore.
[20:48] One question that I get all the time is
[20:50] how good are the translations? I can't
[20:52] read the original. And I always say the
[20:54] translations are like 95% good. There
[20:57] are nuanced sort of differences and
[21:00] sometimes you can read them and say,
[21:01] "Oh, I wouldn't quite translate it like
[21:02] that. They've missed this or that in the
[21:04] translation based on how I understand
[21:06] it." But it is 95% accurate. Read it.
[21:10] It's all there. Read just any normal
[21:12] English translation of it. It's still
[21:14] there for you to consume.
[21:16] So don't use language as your excuse
[21:19] that I can't or I don't I don't live
[21:21] near a gura. Download it on your phone.
[21:23] It's okay. You've got no excuses. We're
[21:25] in such a fortunate time right now. So
[21:29] the short answer, trial and error. Keep
[21:32] trying it. Keep validating it. Validate
[21:35] it with the wi with the wisdom. Validate
[21:37] it with yourself. Does this work for me?
[21:40] No.
[21:42] And following on nicely from that, the
[21:45] next question is about the mind and
[21:47] meditation. What is the mind made of?
[21:51] How to stop the mind from wondering? And
[21:54] how long should someone meditate for
[21:56] daily?
[21:59] >> What is the mind made of?
[22:03] And how long should you meditate?
[22:10] I was once
[22:14] visiting
[22:16] a university professor in Canada and he
[22:21] is the head of a psychology department
[22:24] and he had messaged me and he said you
[22:27] know I really want to spend some time
[22:28] with you. I want to speak to you. I'm
[22:30] really intrigued by the things that you
[22:31] talk about. And when we sat in the car
[22:34] and we were driving somewhere
[22:36] and we were having these very
[22:38] interesting conversations about the
[22:40] mind, he turned around and he said to
[22:41] me, "I I cannot believe when you tell me
[22:45] that you've never studied psychology."
[22:47] He was a professor of psychology. He
[22:48] says, "Are you sure you've never studied
[22:50] psychology?" I said, "I've never studied
[22:52] psychology, but everything that my guru
[22:55] teaches is about the state of the mind."
[23:00] The mind as I have understood it is
[23:07] involuntary
[23:10] continuous
[23:12] conversation.
[23:15] It is all the time saying something,
[23:19] telling you something.
[23:22] And one of the hard lessons that I've
[23:24] had to learn is don't believe everything
[23:28] you think.
[23:32] Just because your mind says something
[23:34] doesn't mean that it is true.
[23:39] And one of the mistakes we make is we
[23:42] constantly believe our minds.
[23:46] The way the guru tackles this is he says
[23:49] the mind that you have is the ego mind
[23:54] and the ego mind is not the highest
[23:58] mind.
[24:01] The ego mind is a low-level mind.
[24:05] It is
[24:08] fearful.
[24:09] It gets angry.
[24:12] It's never satisfied.
[24:15] It's always has something more to
[24:17] achieve.
[24:19] This is a low-level human mind. But
[24:23] there is a higher mind.
[24:25] One that is at peace.
[24:27] One that is filled with kindness.
[24:31] One that isn't constantly chasing after
[24:34] the next thing to achieve.
[24:38] One that is patient. One that is
[24:40] accepting. One that is loving.
[24:44] Now which mind are you in?
[24:47] When you ask
[24:50] what is the mind? The guru might answer
[24:53] which mind?
[24:55] Your mind or the guru's mind?
[24:58] Because the guru also has a mind.
[25:01] And this leads on to the question around
[25:03] what type of meditation should we be
[25:05] doing and how long should we be doing
[25:06] it.
[25:08] One of the things that we have been
[25:09] taught again and again from the yogic
[25:12] traditions is that you need to silence
[25:15] your mind.
[25:20] Gurunanak tradition does not look to
[25:24] silence your mind.
[25:27] And I think this needs to be clarified.
[25:30] And again, when I talk about different
[25:32] traditions, I want to be clear that I'm
[25:34] not in any way disrespecting the other
[25:37] religions. But it is important to
[25:39] understand what the different traditions
[25:41] offer.
[25:44] Certainly in the east, the eastern
[25:47] traditions,
[25:48] almost every other tradition was
[25:51] developed by monks for monks in
[25:55] monasteries.
[25:57] Let me clarify.
[26:00] Almost every other tradition certainly
[26:02] that has come out of the east was
[26:05] developed by monks
[26:07] who didn't have a job, didn't have a
[26:11] house to look after, didn't have
[26:13] children, didn't have wives, didn't have
[26:16] any responsibilities. They abandoned the
[26:19] world. And they saw abandoning the world
[26:22] as a very high state of being.
[26:25] Look at us. We don't have any
[26:28] attachments to the world. We've walked
[26:30] away from it.
[26:32] And we sit in a cave. We sit up a
[26:36] mountain. We sit under a tree. And we
[26:38] perfect this noisy mind by getting into
[26:41] yogic states of deep silence.
[26:46] Sunata, samadi.
[26:49] These are the the terminology that they
[26:52] came up with.
[26:53] Gurunanak
[26:55] was one of the few spiritual masters
[26:58] that said I need to come up with the
[27:00] tradition that is for the family person.
[27:04] The family man and woman. The ones who
[27:07] have jobs, the one who have homes, the
[27:10] one who have busy lives. Nothing that
[27:13] you are teaching helps those people. And
[27:17] even today a lot of the teachings that
[27:19] we get from yogic traditions are coming
[27:22] from those monasteries those monks
[27:26] the ideal scenario they want you to get
[27:28] to is to a state of a silent mind.
[27:32] Gurunanak understood that this is not
[27:34] practical for the everyday person. So he
[27:37] said I'm not going to try to silence
[27:39] your mind because I've realized that the
[27:40] mind cannot be silenced.
[27:44] Instead, what I am going to offer you is
[27:47] a refined mind.
[27:50] Very big difference.
[27:52] So, you are not to sit there and try to
[27:54] get to a state where you have no
[27:57] thoughts [snorts]
[27:58] because that is a losing game. You can
[28:02] only have that for a certain amount of
[28:04] time and then you have to go back into
[28:06] your daily life and start thinking
[28:08] again. So, a refined mind is not a
[28:11] silenced mind. And I hope I'm making
[28:13] that quite clear and simple for us to
[28:16] understand. Now what is a refined mind?
[28:20] A refined mind is not one which is lost
[28:24] in their own sense of self-importance.
[28:28] That is siman. That is meditation
[28:33] which you can do 24 hours a day while
[28:37] you're traveling to work,
[28:39] while you're dealing with the children
[28:41] and the family, while you have work
[28:44] commitments
[28:46] is a deep state of acceptance.
[28:51] Now we talk about affirmations these
[28:54] days a lot.
[28:57] This is essentially using affirmations
[29:00] but not for trying to achieve something.
[29:03] Affirmations for deep serenity, deep
[29:06] tranquility as your day is going along.
[29:10] And you only have to observe your own
[29:12] mind for a short amount of time in your
[29:15] ordinary day to realize that your mind
[29:19] is actually addicted to trouble. Your
[29:23] mind is addicted to worries. Your mind
[29:27] is addicted to creating problems out of
[29:31] nothing.
[29:33] You know, I use a trivial example that
[29:35] you can't even stand in the queue in a
[29:39] supermarket for more than 2 or 3 minutes
[29:41] before you start looking around and
[29:43] thinking, "Oh, how many items does that
[29:44] person have in his trolley? And maybe
[29:46] they should let me go first and why
[29:48] don't they open those those tills? These
[29:49] staff are just standing around. They're
[29:51] not doing anything."
[29:52] Notice what your mind is doing. Just
[29:54] stand.
[29:56] Can you be in a state of acceptance? Can
[29:58] you be in a state of joy? Just doing
[30:00] everyday things. Gurunanak says that you
[30:04] can. And it requires you to just notice
[30:08] your negative mind and refine it. What
[30:12] words you use are up to you. Can you get
[30:15] back into a state of love and joy? The
[30:18] way Gurunanak advises you to do that is
[30:21] to see everything as though it is God.
[30:26] So have a deep sense of reverence for
[30:28] every single thing that is happening in
[30:30] front of you as though it is God
[30:32] presenting it to you.
[30:35] Even if you don't understand it, see
[30:38] everything as a gift being presented to
[30:41] you.
[30:42] See everything as God presenting itself
[30:45] to you.
[30:48] Thank you Viji. So from Gurbani this
[30:52] line comes Sumat anadnath gah a church
[30:57] bismat in deep state of inner stillness
[31:00] and meditative absorption resounds the
[31:02] unstructured divine sound. It can't be
[31:04] described. It is wondrous and filled
[31:07] with a but then certain meditative
[31:11] practices or in could be in a temple
[31:14] monastery or in a church you go there
[31:16] you sit your body shakes it vibrates
[31:20] sometime tears flows as well hours and
[31:23] hours pass by and you don't know where
[31:25] you are and also who you are as well
[31:29] what's the siki view on that um second
[31:32] question is atma becoming permatma uh
[31:36] and what's the way according to Sikism
[31:39] on that please. Thank you.
[31:40] >> Thank you.
[31:43] So the question
[31:45] is about experiences during meditation.
[31:51] If you understand
[31:55] the primary problem
[31:57] that you're trying to solve, it really
[32:00] helps to answer some of these questions.
[32:04] Unfortunately, most people think that
[32:06] the primary problem that we're trying to
[32:08] solve is I need to find God.
[32:12] And while there is truth in that,
[32:16] how you find it, we haven't really
[32:18] internalized.
[32:21] It is not that you need to find God. It
[32:24] is that you need to awaken yourself from
[32:26] your sleep.
[32:29] It is not that you need to do certain
[32:31] practices in order to go somewhere where
[32:34] God resides. It is that you need to
[32:36] awaken to the fact that this is God.
[32:40] And the one thing that is stopping you
[32:42] from doing that is your own sense of I
[32:46] amness.
[32:49] If you don't understand that I am is the
[32:52] problem, it doesn't matter what
[32:54] meditations you do, what experiences you
[32:58] get, how much you shake or vibrate, how
[33:01] much you think you are hearing divine
[33:03] sounds, how much you think that I saw a
[33:06] light in my meditation and I saw this
[33:08] color came to me and this vision came to
[33:11] me and and in this meditation this guru
[33:13] appeared and he told me these things. It
[33:16] makes no difference.
[33:18] Because sitting in the center of all of
[33:20] those experiences the guru would ask you
[33:23] who is experiencing all those things.
[33:25] You say guru g I am experiencing all
[33:27] those things. Uh
[33:30] let's start again. What is the primary
[33:33] problem that you're trying to solve? I
[33:36] exist.
[33:38] That is the fundamental misconception
[33:41] that we all carry that I exist. This is
[33:45] me.
[33:47] And it doesn't matter what the me
[33:50] experiences, there is still a me
[33:52] experiencing it.
[33:54] Gurbani uses this phrase,
[33:58] the letting go of the self.
[34:02] When you are able to understand not
[34:06] through textbooks,
[34:08] not because you've heard enough lectures
[34:09] about it, but through your own
[34:11] understanding, oh damn,
[34:15] this really isn't me.
[34:19] This really is nothing to do with me.
[34:25] I don't exist.
[34:28] All that there is is that divine one.
[34:32] This divine one created this body. It
[34:35] created this mind. It created my
[34:38] parents. It created my family. It
[34:40] created all these circumstances, the
[34:42] highs and the lows.
[34:44] And what we're trying to do is we're
[34:46] trying to juggle all those things and
[34:48] work out and perfect all those things.
[34:52] And in reality, all you need to do is
[34:54] perfect your misconception that you are
[34:57] somehow involved in any of this. So my
[35:00] understanding has been stop trying to
[35:04] find meditative experiences.
[35:07] Stop trying to hear a sound or to find a
[35:09] light or to merge with this or to
[35:12] connect with a guru or this or that and
[35:14] start realizing that you are the central
[35:17] thread. You are the problem.
[35:21] You have to come to the realization of
[35:23] what God really is.
[35:27] God is the thread woven into the fabric
[35:31] of existence.
[35:35] God is the thread
[35:38] that is woven into all of these
[35:40] different shapes and sounds that you
[35:42] call creation
[35:44] and that you call me.
[35:47] This is not you.
[35:50] as much wisdom as you can learn the
[35:55] central crux of it all this is not you.
[35:59] So if this is not you it doesn't it
[36:02] doesn't matter what the you experiences
[36:06] read as much as you want.
[36:10] Show off to the rest of the world as
[36:12] much as you want. The guru is not
[36:14] interested in any of that because you
[36:15] are the central problem. Not what you
[36:18] do, not what you eat, not how long or
[36:21] short your hair is,
[36:23] not what languages you know, not what
[36:26] places you've been to, not what prayers
[36:28] you've memorized. None of it. That's not
[36:31] to say that those things don't have
[36:32] importance.
[36:34] But all of them are to solve the central
[36:37] problem. The central problem is I
[36:41] believe I am here.
[36:44] That is the only thing that you're here
[36:45] to solve.
[36:47] When you solve that problem, what will
[36:50] remain is God.
[36:54] This is the path of me deleting. When
[36:57] you delete the self, all that is left is
[37:00] that oneness, that divine. Call it
[37:03] oneness, call it divine, call it
[37:04] whatever you want. Call it nature.
[37:06] Doesn't matter. You are a product of
[37:09] nature. You are nature. You are not you.
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[38:02] Seth Baldi, firstly I'd just like to say
[38:04] thank you for uh putting for all the
[38:07] staff for putting on a great event. Um I
[38:10] first came across you when you came to
[38:11] my university many years ago. Um and
[38:15] after your lecture I was probably more
[38:18] confused than anything and um
[38:23] since graduating university and entering
[38:25] the work life etc. one one spiritual
[38:27] question that I've always struggled with
[38:30] uh is around the topic of motivation.
[38:33] So
[38:35] what I'm trying to understand is in the
[38:37] practice of removing ego
[38:40] what is what is really motivating me to
[38:43] make decisions in my life um for example
[38:46] getting a promotion or um as a musician
[38:50] wanting to play a concert or you know
[38:53] trying to get a new qualification is
[38:56] that is that being fueled by my ego? Is
[38:58] that being fueled by something else? And
[39:01] how do you balance
[39:04] trying to do more things in life or I
[39:07] suppose the question is what's the point
[39:08] in doing anything
[39:10] um if the spiritual practice is the
[39:12] thing that we should be aspiring to do
[39:14] and remove all type of ego. There's a
[39:17] wonderful
[39:21] teaching
[39:24] within the sik tradition.
[39:28] There's a wonderful way that the guru
[39:31] praises the divine
[39:35] and guru uses this word chi
[39:44] and there are various words around this
[39:47] idea that the divine is playing a game
[39:53] that life is a game and it is playful.
[39:58] And this is an ancient concept that has
[40:01] existed for thousands of years
[40:04] in India. The word that the historic
[40:06] word that was used was Leela. This is
[40:09] the play of God.
[40:13] And
[40:16] the way that I've understood it is
[40:22] when you
[40:25] play a game,
[40:28] when you play chess,
[40:33] you know that ultimately this is a game
[40:38] and you play it anyway for the joy of
[40:40] it. You don't know if you're going to
[40:42] win or if you're going to lose. And
[40:45] that's part of the fun.
[40:48] Now, the question is,
[40:51] if I know that this is a game, does it
[40:54] then make me not want to play the game?
[40:58] When you play a game, you know
[41:03] that you are there to have fun with it.
[41:06] Sometimes we forget that we're playing a
[41:09] game to have fun and we take it too
[41:11] seriously and then we start playing
[41:13] really aggressively
[41:15] and then it no longer becomes fun. It
[41:18] becomes about winning.
[41:21] But ultimately
[41:23] you have known both experiences.
[41:28] If you know how to play a game and be
[41:31] detached from the game but play it
[41:32] anyway, the gurus are doing exactly the
[41:35] same thing with life. The spiritual
[41:37] masters are saying all of this is a
[41:39] game.
[41:41] Play it knowing that in this game
[41:44] everybody loses
[41:48] in the end. There's a wonderful
[41:51] quote that says don't take life too
[41:53] seriously. Nobody comes out alive.
[41:57] No one is going to win this game. You're
[42:00] all going to lose this game. But you're
[42:03] here. You're in the game. Now, do you
[42:06] want to play this game and get joy from
[42:09] it? Or do you want to take it so
[42:11] seriously where every time you lose a
[42:13] piece, you get distra distraught? Every
[42:16] time you gain a piece, you get a little
[42:17] bit of happiness. And are you going to
[42:19] play this game like that at a very
[42:22] animalistic way
[42:25] where you're just not in control of your
[42:27] own emotions or can you take a step back
[42:29] and just enjoy the game?
[42:31] So enjoy the challenge of going for a
[42:35] promotion.
[42:37] Enjoy the challenge of let's see what I
[42:40] can do with this game. How far can I
[42:42] take it? But know at the back of your
[42:45] mind, there's nothing that I gain in
[42:48] life that I get to keep.
[42:53] Just a few months ago, we visited Las
[42:57] Vegas.
[42:58] And every single hotel that you go to,
[43:01] there are thousands of people playing
[43:03] these casinos, playing the slot
[43:05] machines, playing this and that. And my
[43:07] wife and I are scratching our heads
[43:09] going, "What are they doing?
[43:12] Do they not know that every single coin
[43:15] that they put in, every note that they
[43:17] put in, they're going to lose?
[43:19] They know,
[43:22] but they still do it anyway. Now, I
[43:24] don't understand it, but there is
[43:26] certainly a joy in playing knowing that
[43:29] you're going to lose.
[43:31] Or maybe it is this huge delusion that
[43:35] everybody else is going to lose, but I'm
[43:36] going to win. I don't know. I can't
[43:39] speak for them.
[43:41] But there is something about knowing
[43:44] that this is a game, but trying to get
[43:49] as far as you can anyway. Use your
[43:52] character to get as far as you can with
[43:55] this. But never forget that this is a
[43:58] game. Never forget that you don't get to
[44:00] keep anything at the end of this game.
[44:03] You know, when you pay play Monopoly,
[44:06] all the paper money that you win, you
[44:08] don't go and spend it in the real world.
[44:12] At the end of the day, okay, let's pack
[44:14] up all the pieces, put it back in the
[44:15] box. That was a good game. You want to
[44:18] end your life
[44:20] with a smile on your face that said that
[44:22] was a good game.
[44:31] So there's a question here about being a
[44:34] good person.
[44:36] Why do we need anything to do with
[44:38] spirituality? Can't we just live life
[44:41] however we want?
[44:56] You know, you get this question from a
[44:58] lot of people that say, "Oh, I know what
[45:01] all religions teach.
[45:03] All religions teach you to be a good
[45:05] person.
[45:07] All religions teach you to be kind.
[45:12] All religions teach you to love thy
[45:14] neighbor."
[45:17] What I have understood
[45:20] is when people say that they have not
[45:23] read all religions.
[45:25] What they're really saying is I don't
[45:28] have time for that. I don't need any of
[45:30] that in my life. I'm a good person. I'm
[45:33] not harming anyone.
[45:35] I don't need some ancient technique. I
[45:38] don't need some ancient books and
[45:40] scriptures. and I don't need some
[45:42] prophets and gurus to tell me to be a
[45:45] decent person.
[45:47] The gurus are not trying to just give
[45:51] you these very superficial morals.
[45:55] There is more than enough communities
[45:56] around the world that don't have any
[45:59] sort of religion
[46:01] but they have decent morals.
[46:05] This wisdom
[46:07] is not about giving you a religion. It's
[46:11] not about saying you need to join our
[46:14] club. Our club is better than everybody
[46:16] else's one. That is tribalism.
[46:20] That is not what we're talking about.
[46:25] Real spirituality is a human truth which
[46:29] applies to every single human being.
[46:32] And what you see
[46:36] is true now, was true a thousand years
[46:39] ago, and will be a true a thousand years
[46:41] from now, is the vast majority of human
[46:44] beings feel empty.
[46:48] And we spend our whole lives not
[46:51] understanding this void of emptiness
[46:53] that we have inside of us and trying to
[46:56] fill that void that we don't understand
[46:58] with stuff
[47:01] with people with experiences
[47:05] with objects with money with
[47:07] relationships.
[47:09] That is what it comes down to. Human
[47:11] beings are naturally born [snorts]
[47:15] feeling that there is more to life.
[47:20] I like to think sometimes, I wonder if
[47:23] there are
[47:25] some lions sitting
[47:28] under a tree pondering the questions
[47:30] about life.
[47:33] I wonder if there are birds flying about
[47:35] thinking, why am I so miserable?
[47:39] I wonder if there are sheep trying to
[47:41] work out what is the best yoga posture
[47:43] or the best mantra for them.
[47:46] Why not?
[47:48] Why do none of the animals need
[47:52] spirituality?
[47:56] Because the human animal is built
[47:58] slightly different.
[48:02] We are not the same as animals.
[48:06] But what we do is we act like animals.
[48:10] Animals go find a mate. We go find a
[48:12] mate. Animals build shelters. So we
[48:15] build our homes.
[48:17] Animals have offspring. We have family
[48:20] and children.
[48:23] Animals keep themselves busy all day. We
[48:25] find jobs to keep ourselves busy all
[48:27] day.
[48:29] The gurus are saying you're not animals.
[48:33] There is some opportunity that the human
[48:36] life has that doesn't seem to be present
[48:39] in other animals.
[48:42] Today the word is purpose. What is my
[48:44] purpose?
[48:47] And people think that their purpose is
[48:49] out there somewhere. Oh, my purpose is
[48:52] I'm I'm meant to be a musician and bring
[48:54] joy to people by making sure that my
[48:57] music gets out.
[48:59] And then they spend the rest of their
[49:00] life being miserable trying to gain a
[49:02] goal of becoming the best famous
[49:05] musician.
[49:09] Your purpose
[49:11] is essentially the opportunity that
[49:14] exists. You are alive right now except
[49:18] you are alive born with a sense of there
[49:21] must be more to life. Every single one
[49:24] of us have it whether we're able to
[49:27] articulate it or not. Every single one
[49:29] of us is born with this feeling of why
[49:32] why what am I supposed to be doing here?
[49:35] Why am I here? there's something
[49:37] missing. And when we don't understand
[49:39] it, we try to fill that with things. We
[49:42] try to fill it with stuff, with jobs,
[49:44] with relationships, with money,
[49:48] with materialism.
[49:51] The gurus have said we have solved that
[49:54] problem.
[49:57] Who are the gurus? Who are these
[49:58] spiritual masters? They are simply
[50:00] people who solved that problem. The
[50:04] problem of there must be more to life.
[50:06] They said we solved that problem and the
[50:08] problem was inside us.
[50:11] The solution was never out there. The
[50:13] solution was in here. We have wrestled
[50:15] it with it and we have understood it.
[50:19] Of all the battles that you're fighting
[50:21] in life, they said that battle those
[50:24] battles are not worth fighting. There's
[50:25] a battle in here worth fighting. That is
[50:28] what a guru is. That is what religion
[50:31] is. is that is what spirituality is. Is
[50:34] giving you the tools to solve the
[50:36] problem that you don't fully realize
[50:38] that you have
[50:41] and solving it by following the wisdom
[50:44] of masters who actually solved it. Why
[50:46] do we call them masters?
[50:48] Because they have mastered life.
[50:52] So much so that we have spiritual
[50:54] masters who are literally being tortured
[50:58] and killed and they have a smile on
[50:59] their face. They have solved life.
[51:06] Now you ask the question why do I need
[51:08] spirituality in my life? Because you are
[51:11] looking for that.
[51:13] Every single person is looking for that.
[51:16] And there's a fear why people say oh do
[51:18] I really need religion? Do I need any of
[51:20] these things? The fear is do I need to
[51:22] join your club? Do I need to look like
[51:24] you? Do I need to eat like you? Do I
[51:27] need to pray like you? No, you don't.
[51:32] But if you are going to go down this
[51:34] path, you do need to learn what the
[51:38] master is teaching.
[51:41] You can't go to a professor and say,
[51:43] "Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it all. I
[51:45] don't need to learn from you. Who do you
[51:47] think you are?"
[51:49] They're professors for a reason. They've
[51:51] studied it. They've worked out all of
[51:54] the problems and now they're in a
[51:56] position that they can teach. That's
[51:58] what a teacher is. Somebody who knows
[52:00] how to do it.
[52:02] So when we ask these questions, do I
[52:05] need spirituality in my life? Why can't
[52:07] I just be a good person? Go ahead, be a
[52:09] good person. They're not in conflict
[52:11] with each other.
[52:13] But are you a fulfilled person?
[52:16] Most human beings would put their hand
[52:19] on their hearts and say, "I'm not
[52:20] fulfilled."
[52:22] And this problem is getting worse and
[52:24] worse as we go along. As human beings
[52:27] become more materially comfortable,
[52:31] we are still stuck with this problem.
[52:32] This is the mental health crisis that
[52:34] we're in right now. Our parents, our
[52:37] grandparents, they had to struggle for
[52:39] real
[52:40] material things. They had to struggle
[52:43] for everyday basics. They didn't have
[52:46] time to worry about their their mental
[52:49] problems, their psychological problems.
[52:52] They had real world problems to solve.
[52:56] The more the world has become materially
[52:58] comfortable, the mental health health
[53:00] crisis has increased because why we are
[53:05] realizing that the solution was never
[53:07] there.
[53:08] That's what increases our stress and
[53:10] anxiety. When we realize I've got
[53:12] everything and I'm still miserable,
[53:15] that is where the wisdom of the these
[53:16] masters is going to help you because
[53:18] they say it was never out there. The
[53:21] solution was never going to be out
[53:23] there. It's great that you have a
[53:24] wonderful life. It's great that you have
[53:26] lots of money and and and a lovely home
[53:28] and and and a and luxuries,
[53:31] but are you a fulfilled person? If you
[53:34] want to learn how to be fulfilled, go to
[53:36] the masters. the people who have learned
[53:38] how to do that.
[53:41] >> Hi, firstly I want to say thank you for
[53:43] putting on this event. Um it's great to
[53:45] be around others who are like-minded uh
[53:48] individuals. So it's great to be here.
[53:49] Thank you very much. And question is
[53:52] around eagle. Um when we have
[53:55] conversations with our loved ones, be it
[53:59] family and friends, uh how can you or
[54:03] can you help them overcome
[54:06] their ego that they are projecting onto
[54:09] you um or imparting onto you um without
[54:14] inflating your own ego and and
[54:17] respecting their thoughts?
[54:28] There's if I think about
[54:32] gurbani the teachings of the gurus
[54:36] there is very little that talks about
[54:41] how you can change somebody else.
[54:47] In fact, what it says is when you change
[54:50] that impact will impact the people
[54:53] around you.
[54:55] The analogy that they give
[54:58] is
[55:00] that of a sandalwood tree
[55:04] and it says that there is a particular
[55:06] tree of sandalwood that is so fragrant
[55:10] that all the other trees in the forest
[55:12] start to smell like it.
[55:17] You do not go out of your way to try to
[55:19] change somebody else without first
[55:22] having changed yourself.
[55:25] If you have changed yourself,
[55:28] if they are lucky enough, they will
[55:30] begin to take on some of your fragrance.
[55:34] Now,
[55:36] I myself personally
[55:40] do not like conflict.
[55:42] I'm allergic to having arguments with
[55:45] other people.
[55:47] I don't like
[55:49] this head-to-head
[55:51] debating and arguing. I'm right, you're
[55:54] right. What about this? What about that?
[55:56] For me, that's against my personality.
[56:01] But there are other people who like the
[56:03] challenge of debating people. It
[56:06] stimulates them to see to to show
[56:08] people, hey, you could think like this
[56:10] and like that. So, it's really down to
[56:14] you. But the big question is, am I just
[56:18] doing this to inflate my own ego? To
[56:21] show them that I am right,
[56:23] to show them that I know something more
[56:25] than them. I've learned something. I can
[56:27] articulate something. And that's where
[56:30] if the practice becomes about you
[56:34] self-reflecting, checking in with
[56:36] yourself.
[56:37] Am I inflating my ego?
[56:40] More important than you
[56:44] showing somebody their ego is having
[56:46] someone in your life that can show you
[56:48] your ego.
[56:51] having a trusted friend, a partner,
[56:54] somebody that can say, "Hey, you might
[56:56] want to rethink what what you did just
[56:58] there or or what you said there or how
[57:00] you said it in a very loving,
[57:02] non-confrontational
[57:04] way, that's actually encouraging you to
[57:07] change."
[57:09] Now, notice what I said there. Because
[57:11] when some people are acting out of their
[57:14] ego, they don't even mind telling the
[57:17] other person even if it hurts their
[57:19] feelings.
[57:20] So where are you coming from? Are you
[57:24] coming from a position out of total love
[57:27] for the other person that says I really
[57:29] want you to understand this for your
[57:31] benefit. I really want you to see the
[57:33] error of your ways. Or are you coming
[57:35] from a position of superiority that says
[57:40] you really don't know how to think
[57:42] properly. I know how to think properly.
[57:44] These kind of things it there there is
[57:47] no person on the outside that can tell
[57:49] you what to do. How are you doing it is
[57:52] something that you have to
[57:55] contend with within yourself. How are
[57:57] you acting? Where are you coming from?
[57:59] Are you coming from a position of love?
[58:02] Are you coming from genuine care for the
[58:04] other person? Or is there a little bit
[58:06] of well maybe I can show them love but I
[58:09] can also show them how great I am as
[58:10] well? That's something you're going to
[58:13] have to check in with yourself.
[58:15] A recent study has shown that over 75%
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[58:59] Hello s thank you very very much for the
[59:02] wonderful session that we've had with
[59:04] you and we're continuing with the
[59:06] session. Um the way I look at it um
[59:10] perhaps you know um
[59:13] you've also said it in your own words
[59:15] about oneness that we see
[59:20] everybody with the same eye if you like
[59:24] and I see this world again as a
[59:27] playground that God has created for us
[59:30] and in this playground he's put in what
[59:34] we call the five thieves calm cru Ro
[59:37] Lope Mohankar and he's put these five
[59:40] thieves for a reason
[59:43] for us to use
[59:46] but obviously if we don't use them in a
[59:48] balanced way that's where we go wrong
[59:52] now if I use that kind of analogy
[59:57] in the present war world that we are
[59:59] living in and we are thinking of the
[1:00:03] powerful people like Trump
[1:00:06] and other leaders,
[1:00:08] are we saying that they're obviously
[1:00:10] suffering from the misalignment in their
[1:00:14] lives?
[1:00:15] Uh, and how do we kind of accept
[1:00:19] them as
[1:00:22] God's creation, if you like?
[1:00:27] >> Yeah. It's it's really difficult when
[1:00:29] you see how much
[1:00:32] ego some people are in
[1:00:35] and
[1:00:37] you
[1:00:40] see the suffering that they can cause
[1:00:41] other people.
[1:00:44] You see what is quite obvious to us
[1:00:49] that people are acting out of their ego.
[1:00:51] How can we accept that God has created
[1:00:54] that?
[1:00:56] What I've come to see
[1:00:59] is that the universe is capable of
[1:01:01] creating anything.
[1:01:04] The universe is quite a wonderful
[1:01:07] spectrum.
[1:01:09] Just like the universe can create
[1:01:11] extreme opposites like day and night,
[1:01:14] hot and cold, the universe is also
[1:01:17] capable of creating extreme opposites
[1:01:20] like kindness and cruelty.
[1:01:23] And
[1:01:25] the question is not about how could the
[1:01:28] universe do it. The question is how can
[1:01:31] I accept that this is the universe.
[1:01:34] This is what the universe is.
[1:01:37] The universe is a wonderful rainbow of
[1:01:40] all the different colors.
[1:01:43] When we bow down to the universe, the
[1:01:46] wonderment of it all. When we say wow to
[1:01:49] the wonderment of the universe, it has
[1:01:52] to be to all of it, not just the parts
[1:01:55] that we like.
[1:01:57] Hi. Uh my question is on the topic of
[1:01:59] ego and suppression. So to give a bit of
[1:02:02] context uh when I started my journey
[1:02:04] into siki the big teaching which we've
[1:02:07] spoken about in some of these answers
[1:02:08] around ego and detachment from it after
[1:02:12] understanding that I kind of saw life
[1:02:15] through the ego lens and aware of where
[1:02:18] it was showing up and that pushed me to
[1:02:20] step away from certain people
[1:02:22] environments behaviors that felt driven
[1:02:25] by elements of the ego and that then had
[1:02:29] a knock-on effect to some personality
[1:02:31] changes into myself and simple things
[1:02:34] like whether being in a friendship group
[1:02:36] and kind of making jokes or displaying
[1:02:38] confidence in the workplace, whether to
[1:02:41] wear certain outfits, how much I should
[1:02:43] reference myself in conversations,
[1:02:46] generally just how to express myself in
[1:02:47] a non-ego way. And I felt there's become
[1:02:50] a bit of a hesitation and restriction on
[1:02:55] whether that's coming from ego or just
[1:02:57] natural expression. And then asking
[1:02:59] myself, am I suppressing myself? Has it
[1:03:02] become a dim down version? So I guess
[1:03:04] the question is where does ego end and
[1:03:07] authentic expression begin and how to
[1:03:10] navigate and live within that balance?
[1:03:12] >> Thank you. I wonder if you could give an
[1:03:13] example though.
[1:03:19] So for instance when speaking with if
[1:03:22] meeting new people in the workplace a
[1:03:23] new colleague we're talking about life I
[1:03:27] sometimes am conscious as to how much to
[1:03:30] share about myself and whether what I'm
[1:03:34] saying is inflating parts of my life
[1:03:36] experience just so you can give them an
[1:03:39] image of me.
[1:03:40] >> Yeah.
[1:03:49] It's really important that we understand
[1:03:52] the ego.
[1:03:57] And when particularly in a lot of my
[1:03:59] lectures when I talk about I
[1:04:04] I get the question
[1:04:07] around
[1:04:09] am I supposed to be using the word I
[1:04:11] less
[1:04:14] and for me I've
[1:04:17] understood that me and I are very useful
[1:04:21] words
[1:04:23] when the wisdom talks about ego. go. It
[1:04:27] is not about saying the word I or me
[1:04:30] less or talking about me less. It is
[1:04:34] about the illusion that this me is
[1:04:37] somehow in my control.
[1:04:42] It is not saying the me doesn't exist.
[1:04:46] It is something even beyond that is do I
[1:04:49] believe it.
[1:04:53] There's another analogy that wisdom uses
[1:04:56] that says life is a dream.
[1:04:59] It doesn't mean that this doesn't exist.
[1:05:02] It means that you're living in this life
[1:05:04] asleep and you need to awaken. If you
[1:05:08] awaken, this stuff doesn't disappear.
[1:05:11] It's still here.
[1:05:13] The same is true for me. Even the most
[1:05:16] enlightened masters can say, "I am
[1:05:20] hungry.
[1:05:22] Do you understand that difference that
[1:05:24] you can actually use the word me and I
[1:05:27] am
[1:05:28] even though you're a fully enlightened
[1:05:30] master? It's not that they don't say the
[1:05:32] words less.
[1:05:34] So
[1:05:37] you're then going to have to not work on
[1:05:41] something so superficial like should I
[1:05:43] be talking a bit less about myself.
[1:05:46] It's more about what do I believe is
[1:05:48] here?
[1:05:51] What are the subconscious beliefs that
[1:05:54] I'm carrying?
[1:05:56] And the big subconscious belief that
[1:05:57] we're carrying is I am this is me.
[1:06:03] And I suppose that's the the the biggest
[1:06:05] revelation
[1:06:07] that I've had in my own life is the
[1:06:10] ultimate problem that you're trying to
[1:06:12] solve is just a belief in your mind that
[1:06:15] says this is me. And it's a very subtle
[1:06:21] but important shift that has to happen
[1:06:24] that realizes this is here but it's also
[1:06:27] part of the big game. It's not me. It's
[1:06:30] just here. And once you make that shift,
[1:06:33] once you're able to understand that,
[1:06:35] you're perfectly comfortable with
[1:06:36] talking about yourself. I sit on stages
[1:06:40] all the time and I give examples and
[1:06:41] share examples about my life, my family,
[1:06:44] my children, my experiences.
[1:06:47] I'm not saying it to somehow impress you
[1:06:51] or somehow show that, you know, I've had
[1:06:53] an amazing life and look at all the
[1:06:55] great things I've done. I'm more than
[1:06:57] comfortable using this word I.
[1:07:00] I'm not in any way suggesting that I've
[1:07:02] I've completely eradicated this belief
[1:07:05] in myself. I have that all the time. And
[1:07:07] the way you know it is through all the
[1:07:09] times when I get frustrated and I get
[1:07:11] angry and I get disappointed and I get
[1:07:14] saddened but when things don't go my
[1:07:16] way. So I'm I'm in the same position as
[1:07:18] everybody else. But what I've understood
[1:07:20] is I'm not trying to solve just
[1:07:23] something as superficial as as as how I
[1:07:25] speak. It's more fundamental than that.
[1:07:28] What do I believe is going on in here?
[1:07:31] And once this is broken, we once you get
[1:07:35] to a point where you genuinely know that
[1:07:37] this isn't me, you can't unbreak that.
[1:07:40] It's like an egg that's cracked. Once
[1:07:42] it's cracked, you can't uncrack it. It's
[1:07:45] there always at the back of your mind.
[1:07:47] Even if you forget about it, at the back
[1:07:48] of your mind, you know, you do know this
[1:07:51] is all a game, right? You have to tell
[1:07:52] yourself. Sometimes you get you get lost
[1:07:55] in the game and you start taking it too
[1:07:57] seriously. And then you snap out of it
[1:07:59] and you say, "What am I doing?" And the
[1:08:02] teachings come back in and you start
[1:08:04] realizing, "Oh, I I I didn't quite play
[1:08:06] that right. I'm going to try again
[1:08:08] tomorrow." So, we're talking about
[1:08:10] something far more fundamental, which is
[1:08:13] a belief that I am real.
[1:08:18] Not that my body is real or these
[1:08:21] thoughts are real, but there's something
[1:08:22] deeper. I am real. Now that might sound
[1:08:25] way too complicated and the gurus have
[1:08:28] have simplified it and they said I don't
[1:08:31] want you to worry about that.
[1:08:33] here. Take a word, take a phrase that
[1:08:38] reminds you of the totality of life and
[1:08:41] just say it again and again and again
[1:08:43] and fall in love with just saying that
[1:08:45] phrase because the gurus have figured
[1:08:47] out a way to teach you without you
[1:08:49] necessarily learning the intricacies of
[1:08:52] the mind and how the mind works and how
[1:08:54] the ego works. The gurus just said take
[1:08:57] this word and fall in love with it.
[1:09:00] Praise the universe again and again and
[1:09:02] again. Just praise it. Thank you. Thank
[1:09:04] you. Thank you.
[1:09:07] I always say to people who have never
[1:09:09] come across anything to do with
[1:09:11] spirituality, tradition, mantra, I'm
[1:09:13] saying you all know how to do a mantra.
[1:09:16] Your mind is saying mantras all the
[1:09:18] time. The mantra that your mind is
[1:09:19] saying is me me. You're all doing it all
[1:09:23] the time. Every moment of every day,
[1:09:25] every single person has a mantra going
[1:09:27] on in their mind. So the guru has simply
[1:09:30] identified, oh this is how the human
[1:09:32] mind works. Okay, they're already
[1:09:34] chanting their own mantra here. Let's
[1:09:37] replace that with you. You you.
[1:09:42] So you don't have to worry about that.
[1:09:43] Just pick up this tool and start using
[1:09:47] it and it will work and it'll just keep
[1:09:49] going and every day it gets deeper and
[1:09:52] deeper and deeper until you genuinely
[1:09:54] understand
[1:09:56] this is you. this is not me and I'm okay
[1:09:59] with that. I'm comfortable with that.
[1:10:01] I'm able to have conversations within
[1:10:03] this game. I'm able to play this game on
[1:10:05] two different levels.
[1:10:09] Now, here here's a way of thinking about
[1:10:11] it that that I think sort of works quite
[1:10:13] well.
[1:10:15] If I said to you that
[1:10:19] none of this is real, we're all
[1:10:21] connected to the universe.
[1:10:24] Every atom that's inside of us was once
[1:10:26] floating around as stardust.
[1:10:28] That's all true. But if I say to you,
[1:10:32] your car meter is running out and you
[1:10:34] need to go and quickly put some more
[1:10:36] coins in the meter otherwise you're
[1:10:37] going to get a fine. That's also true.
[1:10:41] Now, if I say to you that your car meter
[1:10:43] is running out and you've parked in the
[1:10:44] wrong place and you're going to get a
[1:10:45] fine, you're not going to turn around
[1:10:47] and say, "But all of this is not real.
[1:10:53] It's not a question of which one is
[1:10:55] true. Both of them are true.
[1:10:59] It is true that you are stardust, but
[1:11:02] it's also true that you're going to get
[1:11:03] a fine.
[1:11:05] You have to play at both levels.
[1:11:09] You see how that works? You have to play
[1:11:11] that game. At the everyday level where
[1:11:14] you talk to your colleagues, you you you
[1:11:16] talk to your family, you you you get
[1:11:18] involved with life.
[1:11:21] But it's also true that you're stardust
[1:11:23] and none of this really matters anyway.
[1:11:26] Play both games.
[1:11:29] Yeah.
[1:11:35] >> Hello Satpal G. How are you?
[1:11:37] >> Good. Thank you. [laughter]
[1:11:40] >> Good evening to everybody as well. Um I
[1:11:44] will probably uh say something in a
[1:11:45] conversation way to help everybody and
[1:11:48] you understand what my question is. So I
[1:11:50] have a friend and we both whenever we
[1:11:53] talk um she says that she does nam job
[1:11:57] and she says you know money whenever
[1:11:59] negative thoughts come to my mind I just
[1:12:01] immediately start doing namjab and the
[1:12:03] thoughts get suppressed and I get a bit
[1:12:05] uncomfortable with that thought and I
[1:12:07] then say to her I said why are you
[1:12:09] suppressing your thoughts with namjab
[1:12:13] and uh she said but it works and then
[1:12:16] now I hear you you know you're talking
[1:12:18] about that saying namjap as a praise and
[1:12:23] um you know saying it with a different
[1:12:25] intention
[1:12:26] um is what you're talking about.
[1:12:29] >> Yeah.
[1:12:29] >> So uh you know what is the reality here
[1:12:33] because a lot of people do nam job and
[1:12:36] then the intentions are different. So um
[1:12:42] what's the reality?
[1:12:46] So,
[1:12:47] I use this analogy all the time that if
[1:12:50] you ask 10 people how to lose weight,
[1:12:52] they'll give you 10 different answers.
[1:12:54] If you ask 10 people how to lose weight,
[1:12:57] they'll give you 10 different answers.
[1:12:59] Which one is right?
[1:13:02] The one that helps you lose weight is
[1:13:04] right.
[1:13:06] Is it actually working? So I'll go back
[1:13:09] to your example you've given that one of
[1:13:11] your friends say that they use mantras n
[1:13:14] siman to suppress any negative
[1:13:18] thoughts that come within them.
[1:13:20] The test is have they actually let go of
[1:13:24] it or does it come back later on a week
[1:13:27] later are they still talking about that
[1:13:30] person who did them wrong or have they
[1:13:32] genuinely been able to let go of that?
[1:13:35] >> You see the difference?
[1:13:36] >> Yeah. Do they actually let go
[1:13:39] >> or do they temporarily just suppress it,
[1:13:41] but really they're not dealing with it?
[1:13:44] >> For me, the technique of praise is
[1:13:47] reshifting my thought process. How I
[1:13:49] look at that situation. To praise that
[1:13:52] situation, no matter what it is,
[1:13:55] is to not carry it as a trauma. Is to
[1:14:00] accept it for what it was, to thank it,
[1:14:02] to bow down to it, and to move on.
[1:14:06] Um and one more question sorry. Um I've
[1:14:10] understood this about myself that once I
[1:14:12] understand something I accept then then
[1:14:15] no questions asked it becomes a bit
[1:14:17] easier. Now the the concept of oneness
[1:14:22] knowing that at this point in time I'm
[1:14:24] pretty much flawed and there is a
[1:14:26] journey ahead to fully understand
[1:14:29] oneness and eventually experience
[1:14:30] oneness. And I saw this somewhere where
[1:14:33] they were explaining it in a very like
[1:14:35] stepbystep logical way and they used
[1:14:38] four laws you know and they said this is
[1:14:40] probably the cosmic law and this is the
[1:14:42] order the basically what we're talking
[1:14:45] about and these laws are law of
[1:14:47] sensation law of vibration law of karma
[1:14:51] law of gravity and then they say if you
[1:14:53] combine these four laws this is pretty
[1:14:55] much the order of the universe. So do
[1:14:58] you think for somebody who's like pretty
[1:14:59] much logical mind and um they they
[1:15:02] understand the scientific way this is a
[1:15:04] probably an easier way for them to
[1:15:06] understand if the you know job is not
[1:15:08] something that they would prefer or you
[1:15:10] know it different people different ways
[1:15:13] do you think this would be one of the
[1:15:15] ways to understand oneness and then
[1:15:17] eventually experience oneness
[1:15:19] >> thank you so I'm not familiar with that
[1:15:21] particular methodology that you've
[1:15:24] explained but within in ancient Indian
[1:15:28] practice and I use the word Indian
[1:15:30] because I don't subscribe to this idea
[1:15:33] that an idea is something Hindu or it's
[1:15:35] sick or it's Buddhist or this and that.
[1:15:37] These teachings have all come from one
[1:15:40] place and they have been refined by
[1:15:42] spiritual masters for tens of thousands
[1:15:44] of years. So this is a continuation of
[1:15:47] this wisdom again and again and again.
[1:15:49] Ultimately all wisdom belongs to
[1:15:52] humanity. So it's not for one group or
[1:15:55] another which is I which is why I don't
[1:15:56] call anything that I'm talking about
[1:15:58] that this is seek wisdom because as soon
[1:16:01] as you put a label to it then somebody
[1:16:03] will say well oh well that's for you
[1:16:05] guys that's not for us
[1:16:08] whereas I call this truth
[1:16:11] if it is true it is true for everyone
[1:16:14] it is not my truth or your truth
[1:16:17] so
[1:16:20] part of this ancient
[1:16:22] wisdom
[1:16:23] has always understood that there are
[1:16:25] different people and they gravitate
[1:16:28] towards different things based on who
[1:16:29] they are. There are people who are more
[1:16:32] logical and intellectual and like to
[1:16:35] read and understand ideas and grapple
[1:16:37] with different ideas. And there are
[1:16:39] other people that say, "Oh, that's too
[1:16:40] much for me. Give me something simple."
[1:16:43] Other people say, "I don't want to
[1:16:44] repeat a word every day. Can I not just
[1:16:47] do something that helps me lose my ego?"
[1:16:50] So these ancient traditions have always
[1:16:53] understood that different people are
[1:16:56] motivated and work in different ways and
[1:16:58] we have to try and come up with ways for
[1:17:00] them to all get to the same destination
[1:17:02] but in their own space in their own way
[1:17:04] in their own time. So I think it's very
[1:17:08] valid for someone to try and understand
[1:17:12] it through these laws
[1:17:15] but they must ultimately get to the
[1:17:19] point the peak and what I do find
[1:17:23] especially with the new age movement and
[1:17:25] new age spirituality is I find that they
[1:17:29] are all in one way or the other skirting
[1:17:32] around the ego. They reinforce the ego.
[1:17:36] Which is why I speak out against things
[1:17:38] like manifestation culture. It's no
[1:17:40] offense to anybody who who genuinely
[1:17:43] wants to make a better life for
[1:17:44] themselves. Of course, by all means,
[1:17:46] have a wonderful life. Go and earn
[1:17:48] whatever you want and and and and
[1:17:50] acquire whatever you want. But if you
[1:17:53] don't understand that the ultimate
[1:17:55] problem is your I amness. If you haven't
[1:17:58] understood that, then no matter how much
[1:18:01] you acquire, you're still going to be
[1:18:04] stuck with the problem of of being
[1:18:05] miserable,
[1:18:07] of just being frustrated with life, of
[1:18:09] not knowing how to deal with some of
[1:18:10] these things. So whatever technique you
[1:18:13] or the people that you know talk about,
[1:18:16] is it really getting rid of their ego?
[1:18:20] And this is why I'm so adamant in
[1:18:23] everything that I say. It's about your
[1:18:25] ego. It's about this delusion of the I
[1:18:28] am. It's about letting go of the I am.
[1:18:30] Because anyone from any tradition,
[1:18:32] whether they're religious or atheist or
[1:18:34] Christian or Muslim or Buddhist or sick
[1:18:36] or anything else, it makes no
[1:18:39] difference. We're all walking around
[1:18:40] with this I am. That is a human truth.
[1:18:44] And if we're all walking around with
[1:18:45] this I am, there are solutions that are
[1:18:50] valid for all people. How you get to it,
[1:18:52] it doesn't make a difference. But is it
[1:18:53] actually getting rid of their I amness?
[1:18:56] I think the technique that Guru Nanak
[1:18:58] offers is a genuinely helpful technique
[1:19:01] for all human beings. But it may not be
[1:19:04] for some people. So it doesn't matter
[1:19:07] about the technique, but the destination
[1:19:09] matters. And to me, the destination is,
[1:19:12] can you let go of your frustrations? Can
[1:19:15] you let go of your desires? Can you let
[1:19:17] go of every time that something has gone
[1:19:20] wrong in your life and you're still
[1:19:22] carrying the trauma and the pain of
[1:19:23] that? Can you let go of these things?
[1:19:26] Can you let go of your self-importance?
[1:19:29] Can you let go of your goals and your
[1:19:31] aspirations
[1:19:32] and still play with them and still
[1:19:34] perform them?
[1:19:36] Can you be at peace? And so maybe the
[1:19:40] way to think about this is
[1:19:43] one of the ideas within this
[1:19:47] tradition,
[1:19:49] ancient wisdom
[1:19:51] has been moka, mti, liberation.
[1:19:56] Historically that was understood as
[1:19:59] being liberated from reincarnation. And
[1:20:02] one of the things that I love that
[1:20:03] Gurunanak does is he just flips the
[1:20:05] whole thing on its head and he says,
[1:20:07] "Don't worry about liberation
[1:20:08] afterwards. Learn how to be free now.
[1:20:12] Free yourself from your own self.
[1:20:16] Be free from yourself.
[1:20:19] Be free from your your own frustrations.
[1:20:23] Forget about whether you go to heaven or
[1:20:25] hell or whether you get reincarnated and
[1:20:29] have all these extra lives. Forget about
[1:20:31] those. Gurunanic says nobody has ever
[1:20:33] gone to those and come back and can tell
[1:20:35] us the answer to those. So I can't solve
[1:20:38] that freedom. But Guranik says I've
[1:20:41] solved this freedom. I am free.
[1:20:45] If death wants to come and take me right
[1:20:47] now, Gurunanak says I'm free. I laugh.
[1:20:51] How can death take anything away from
[1:20:52] me? I have nothing left to give. I've
[1:20:55] let it all go. I am free. So much so
[1:20:58] that death will come and have to bow
[1:21:00] down to me.
[1:21:02] That is freedom. It doesn't matter what
[1:21:05] the technique is. Can you be that free?
[1:21:10] That is the the the the thing that we
[1:21:11] have to test oursel on. Am I free from
[1:21:14] myself?
[1:21:19] >> [music]
