Transcript
[0:00] You have to be aware of how short life
[0:03] is. You need to get back to that
[0:04] sensation of being alive in the moment.
[0:07] And it's [music] kind of an ecstatic
[0:09] experience since I wanted people to have
[0:10] that in their life without having to
[0:12] die.
[0:12] >> He's the bestselling author. [music]
[0:13] Millions of copies of his book sold. Was
[0:16] the very first guest on this show now 20
[0:19] episodes later. Welcome back to the
[0:21] School of Greatness, Robert Green. When
[0:24] I had my near-death experience, I was
[0:27] slurring my words incredibly and my face
[0:29] was falling. When someone saves your
[0:32] life, there's obviously a different kind
[0:33] of feeling, right? I have to look at her
[0:36] through new eyes. I have to see that I
[0:38] am here because of her. Love between two
[0:41] humans is the highest form of the
[0:43] sublime. It's about experiencing life on
[0:45] a higher level.
[0:46] >> Would you say that most of our pain and
[0:49] suffering comes from focusing too much
[0:51] on ourselves?
[0:53] Well,
[0:57] >> welcome back everyone to the School of
[0:59] Greatness. I'm excited about our guest.
[1:01] We have the one and only Robert Green in
[1:03] the house. And Robert was episode number
[1:06] one on the School of Greatness. And this
[1:09] is episode 2001. I get chills just
[1:11] thinking about it because of so much
[1:13] that has happened in the last almost 14
[1:16] years for both of us.
[1:17] >> Yeah. Yeah. But I'm so grateful for you
[1:19] for being taking a chance on me being my
[1:22] first guest when no one knew what a
[1:24] podcast was back then. So a big thank
[1:26] you.
[1:27] >> What were you thinking back then? You
[1:29] thinking it wasn't even called a
[1:30] podcast, was
[1:31] >> it? It it was but no one knew what it No
[1:34] one knew what a podcast was. I was
[1:36] thinking I'm going through a stage where
[1:38] I feel stuck in my life. I felt stuck in
[1:40] a relationship.
[1:41] >> What were you doing before then?
[1:43] >> I was running
[1:43] >> Good about you here. I was running I was
[1:45] running an online marketing company. I
[1:47] had a business partnership but we were
[1:49] kind of like arguing a lot and we
[1:51] weren't seeing eye to eye.
[1:52] >> I had moved to LA maybe six months
[1:54] before then for a girl that didn't work
[1:57] out.
[1:57] >> Uhhuh.
[1:57] >> And so I felt stuck in this kind of
[1:59] relationship that was off and on and we
[2:01] weren't seeing eye to eye
[2:02] >> and um I just but I was making money in
[2:06] a business but everything in my my
[2:08] relationships were falling apart and I
[2:10] was at the center of all those kind of
[2:13] breakdowns. Uh-huh.
[2:14] >> And so instead of blaming everyone else,
[2:18] I kind of had an aha moment. I was like,
[2:20] "Oh, maybe I'm the problem. Maybe
[2:22] there's something that I get to look at
[2:23] within me that's causing these
[2:25] breakdowns or choosing relationships
[2:27] that aren't in alignment for whatever
[2:28] reason."
[2:30] And that's when the healing journey
[2:33] began for me. And I said, I feel stuck,
[2:36] but I also have access to really wise
[2:40] individuals who have given me mentorship
[2:42] for the previous few years. I wonder,
[2:45] and I'd kind of been interviewing people
[2:47] organically without recording it
[2:49] >> and I would just take action
[2:51] specifically in my business
[2:53] >> and I was like, well, maybe I can just
[2:54] interview people and see if it can help
[2:56] me get unstuck but also help others.
[2:58] >> Oh, interesting.
[2:59] >> And I was actually stuck in LA traffic
[3:01] when this idea came to me. interesting.
[3:04] >> And I was like, everyone around me stuck
[3:07] in the the the highway was all looked
[3:10] frustrated, honking their horn. I was
[3:11] like, they look stuck. I look stuck.
[3:14] Maybe we're all stuck.
[3:16] >> And I was like, what is it within me
[3:18] that's causing this or that's attracting
[3:20] this or aligning with this?
[3:23] And the podcast began. And you were the
[3:25] first guest that we had on. So, I want
[3:27] to acknowledge you again for constantly
[3:29] inspiring me and so many people in this
[3:31] world for the work that you do. And I'm
[3:33] grateful
[3:34] >> that this is the sixth time that you've
[3:36] been on for 2001.
[3:38] >> I can't believe I let a total stranger
[3:40] into my house.
[3:40] >> Exactly.
[3:41] >> Could have been a who knew what you
[3:42] could have.
[3:43] >> Who knew?
[3:44] >> But anyway, I'm kidding.
[3:45] >> Yeah. Yeah. You've got a new book out
[3:47] called The Law of the Sublime that
[3:50] everyone needs to go get right now. And
[3:51] I'm going to read something really
[3:52] quickly for people because most of us
[3:55] are consumed by routine ambition and
[3:57] anxiety and we have lost our capacity
[4:00] for wonder and with it our awareness of
[4:02] what it means to be alive. And in your
[4:05] most original and expansive work yet,
[4:07] you reveal how to rediscover that lost
[4:10] perception, how to see beyond
[4:13] convention, to recover the curiosity of
[4:16] childhood and to explore the hidden
[4:17] frontiers of the mind so that we can
[4:20] awaken the unseen dimensions of reality
[4:23] that surrounds us.
[4:25] >> And this has taken you seven years of
[4:28] your life to work on this book.
[4:30] >> Yeah.
[4:31] >> And it's a masterpiece. And I know a lot
[4:33] of people are going to love this, but
[4:34] I'm curious. We're talking about
[4:36] childhood awe and wonder that we have as
[4:39] kids. I was telling you beforehand that
[4:41] my twin daughters just turned one.
[4:43] >> Wow.
[4:44] >> And you have a whole chapter about
[4:46] childhood in here.
[4:48] >> Yeah.
[4:48] >> What is it about childhood that allows
[4:51] for awe and wonder that we as adults
[4:55] tend to forget how to tap into?
[4:59] Well, um it's hard because we can't
[5:02] remember our first months and first
[5:05] years of life, right? And it's kind of a
[5:07] strange thought. We can remember
[5:09] everything else. The probably the reason
[5:11] is we didn't have language then, so we'd
[5:12] have nothing to stick our memories onto.
[5:15] But I did a lot of research and if you
[5:18] think if you've had children, you look
[5:20] at the baby when it's first born and
[5:22] it's just this bundle of nerves and
[5:24] impulses just crying all the time. It's
[5:25] got all these things you got to attend
[5:27] to.
[5:28] And it's kind of in this strange state
[5:30] of just needing. It's in an almost like
[5:32] an animal. Okay. Then around 9 months or
[5:35] so, maybe 10 minutes depending on the
[5:37] child, things start calming down a
[5:39] little bit and they start looking up at
[5:40] the world. They start looking up in
[5:42] their crib. They look at the mobile,
[5:44] things that are moving. They see their
[5:46] parents moving about. They start
[5:48] observing the world. And try imagining
[5:51] this for a moment at in your adult
[5:53] perspective. But you're seeing the world
[5:54] for the first time. you're seeing things
[5:57] for the first time. So your mind is
[6:00] really open and expansive. We've the the
[6:03] childhood brain is so much more plastic
[6:06] than the adult brain. It's constantly
[6:08] forming these new neural pathways in the
[6:11] brain and making all sorts of
[6:12] connections which is why child's
[6:14] imaginations are so powerful. Right? So
[6:16] the brain is just really active and it's
[6:18] seeing all these things for the first
[6:20] time and it's utterly enchanted colors,
[6:24] right? just colors not for the object
[6:26] but just the color itself is
[6:28] fascinating. Everything you know the sky
[6:31] animals particularly pets are are
[6:34] absolutely mesmerizing. The world of
[6:36] adults which seem so weird and strange
[6:38] these tall figures moving about doing
[6:41] their strange activities. You don't even
[6:43] know language so it's just noise that
[6:45] you're hearing. The world is strange.
[6:48] You're not an animal so that you don't
[6:50] have any you're conscious but you don't
[6:52] have words to hold on to. So it's this
[6:54] incredible experience that you're going
[6:56] through, right? So the adult brain
[6:59] operates through what we call
[7:00] inhibition. In order to get through our
[7:03] day-to-day lives, our brain is
[7:04] inhibiting the information that comes
[7:06] in, right? So that we can function. If
[7:09] we had to see all the colors and things
[7:11] going on around us, we we would be able
[7:13] to handle our day-to-day business,
[7:15] right? The child's brain has very little
[7:18] of that inhibiting going on. So it's
[7:21] paying attention to everything, right?
[7:23] Even the silliest, stupidest thing, it's
[7:25] paying attention to and wondering what
[7:27] that is. Okay? So it's this whole other
[7:30] world that they have entered. And then
[7:33] they learn language, you know, it
[7:35] depends on the age. I don't know if your
[7:37] ch children are starting to speak yet.
[7:38] They're probably not.
[7:41] Yeah.
[7:42] >> Babbling kind of thing. You know, I
[7:43] don't know exactly when. A little after
[7:45] a year, year and a half, you start you
[7:48] learn the word I. And that's a very
[7:50] powerful moment because up until then
[7:53] you don't really have a sense of
[7:55] yourself as an individual, something
[7:57] separate from mommy and daddy in the
[7:59] environment. And so you become
[8:01] interested in I'm this person. I'm this
[8:04] individual. And that's also very
[8:06] fascinating. And perhaps you look in the
[8:09] mirror for the first time and you see an
[8:12] image of yourself reflected and that's
[8:13] very strange experience. Okay. So
[8:16] everything is weird and wondrous and
[8:18] strange and enchanting. Of course there
[8:21] are people who have had troubled
[8:23] childhoods. We have to acknowledge that
[8:24] and it's not all wonderful. But even
[8:27] still their minds are are still fresh
[8:29] and open and there are moments of this
[8:32] incredible enchantment. Right? Then
[8:35] slowly slowly day by day we start losing
[8:38] it. Okay. So that sense of having a self
[8:42] and an ego. So there's a proportion
[8:45] going on in childhood. The world is
[8:48] fascinating. 90% of your attention is in
[8:50] the world and how interesting things
[8:52] are. 10% maybe is about yourself and
[8:55] your needs and who you are because
[8:57] you're just beginning to think of
[8:59] yourself as an individual. Okay? Slowly
[9:02] those numbers start to reverse
[9:04] >> until you're an adult and 98% of your
[9:08] attention is about yourself, your ego,
[9:10] your insecurities. Am I getting
[9:12] attention? And maybe 2% is noticing
[9:15] things that are around you. Okay?
[9:17] >> Is being in awe of something or noticing
[9:19] something.
[9:20] >> Just even paying attention.
[9:22] >> People I walk look at people. I'm up in
[9:24] the hills of Griffith Park riding my
[9:26] bike. It it's spectacularly beautiful.
[9:29] And people are like this. They're not
[9:31] looking at the trees, the the sky, the
[9:34] just the insanity of our planet Earth.
[9:37] So they're not even so 2% of the you
[9:40] might even paying attention a little bit
[9:42] to the environment. Okay. So in the book
[9:46] I call it the lost self. Your child is
[9:49] your lost self, right? You've lost it.
[9:52] But if you never had your childhood,
[9:55] you would never know what you were
[9:57] missing and you probably wouldn't be
[9:59] unhappy.
[10:00] But because you once knew this mind that
[10:04] was so open and fresh and excited in
[10:06] awe,
[10:08] >> unconsciously in the back of your mind,
[10:10] you're going, I'm missing something. I
[10:12] once had it. You're not thinking that
[10:14] consciously, but unconsciously it's
[10:16] affecting you and it's secretly making
[10:18] you miserable because you once knew that
[10:20] you had possessed a mind that was
[10:23] experiencing the world in a very
[10:25] immediate and powerful fashion. And so I
[10:28] say, you know, you you you maybe try
[10:30] drugs, you try you get into addiction,
[10:32] all sorts of things to try and recapture
[10:34] that feeling of not being separated from
[10:37] the world.
[10:39] And in the book, I try and tell you, and
[10:42] there's a lot of research I go through,
[10:44] it's not about recapturing the paradise
[10:47] of childhood or being all nostalgic or
[10:50] looking at photographs and and TV shows
[10:52] from that. It's about reex look looking
[10:56] at the world through the eyes of a child
[10:57] again. Reexperiencing your childhood in
[11:00] the present how you experience the
[11:02] world. Okay. And I give you exercises on
[11:06] that and how you can go back to so one
[11:09] one example I'll give you is children
[11:12] experience time in a much different way
[11:14] than adults do. First of all, we
[11:16] obviously have to experience time for
[11:19] scheduling, right? And we all go crazy
[11:22] with that particularly nowadays where
[11:24] we're expected to be on top of so many
[11:26] things. Okay. But a child I give the
[11:29] metaphor of
[11:31] imagine a river. Okay. And you are in
[11:35] some a raft a canoe on the river and
[11:38] you're just floating along the river.
[11:40] All right. The child experiences time as
[11:43] if it's inside that river. It just it's
[11:45] a flow. It's a feeling of being of
[11:48] moving of movement and it's a physical
[11:51] sensual sensation of just being in the
[11:53] present and flowing with the time and
[11:56] it's kind of an ecstatic experience of
[11:58] being alive, right? You can't look
[12:01] behind because you're not you're just
[12:02] flowing down the river. You can't really
[12:04] look ahead. It's just the sense of flow
[12:07] is is what it is. The adults are
[12:10] standing on the shoreline and they're
[12:13] seeing the river pass so they can see
[12:14] back to the past. They can see forward,
[12:16] but they're not inside time. They're not
[12:19] inside that flow. Time is this abstract
[12:22] thing of tomorrow I got to finish this.
[12:24] In an hour, I got to send this email.
[12:26] Yesterday, that person said that. What
[12:27] did that mean? I'm so angry and upset.
[12:30] You're not inside time. You're viewing
[12:31] it from the outside and it's making you
[12:33] anxious and neurotic and upset and
[12:36] worried. When you're in the flow of
[12:38] time, it's like liberating fe. Now, I'm
[12:41] not saying you can go around like that
[12:43] all the time. You wouldn't get any work
[12:44] done. But upon occasion, you need to get
[12:46] back to that sensation of just
[12:48] experiencing time as this sensation of
[12:51] being alive in the moment and being
[12:53] inside that flow, that movement, just
[12:55] the sensual feeling.
[12:57] >> I have other things about that that I'm
[12:59] going to help because at the end of each
[13:02] chapter, I have exercises which I've
[13:04] never done in any of my books before.
[13:06] >> Why did you do it in this one?
[13:08] >> Because I don't want it to be an
[13:10] academic book about a subject about the
[13:12] sublime. And the subject can be very
[13:14] academic. I want the reader to
[13:17] experience everything I write about
[13:20] because
[13:22] I mean we can get into this later. When
[13:24] I had my near-death experience, my
[13:27] stroke, the world when I emerged from
[13:29] it, the world was different. It looked
[13:31] different. It felt different. It had
[13:33] this sparkle, this intensity. And part
[13:36] of the reason to write the book is I
[13:37] wanted people to have that in their life
[13:39] without having to die. M so I wanted to
[13:41] give you exercises
[13:43] so that you can feel what I'm writing
[13:45] about. So that's one of the exercises
[13:48] and I have others so that you can
[13:50] perceive the world
[13:52] >> more in that immediate fresh open
[13:54] fashion and re-enchant it so everything
[13:57] doesn't seem so similar and the same and
[13:59] so and you're always craving something
[14:02] new.
[14:03] I have a quote in there. You don't need
[14:05] to travel to different planets and and
[14:08] and have all these incredible
[14:09] experiences. What you need is a new pair
[14:11] of eyes. It's a quote of Marcel P. You
[14:14] want to be able to look at the the same
[14:16] world that you're looking at but with a
[14:18] new pair of eyes. And that's a lot of
[14:20] what I'm trying to do in the book. How
[14:22] do we start to look at the world with a
[14:24] new pair of eyes when we are dealing
[14:27] with a lot of challenges or stress or
[14:29] responsibilities or overwhelm constantly
[14:31] and it's hard for us to remove ourselves
[14:34] from that or like you say step into the
[14:36] flow of that feeling.
[14:39] >> Well, nothing really of great value in
[14:42] life is going to be easy. Okay. But what
[14:45] I try and say in the preface to the book
[14:48] and I understand this is a strange
[14:50] concept. Robert writes about power. He
[14:53] writes about seduction. M those I get
[14:55] what that is but the sublime. What the
[14:56] hell is that?
[14:57] >> Mastery all these things. Yeah.
[14:58] >> Yeah. Well, I don't know. So I try and
[15:01] ground you in the preface and I try and
[15:04] say
[15:05] that probably you've had moments where
[15:08] you've sensed something else about life
[15:11] something greater than your individual
[15:13] concerns but it's very fleeting but I
[15:16] want you to get a feel understand that a
[15:19] lot of your misery and unhappiness and
[15:21] depression come from feelings of being
[15:24] so disconnected from your surroundings
[15:27] from other people and and even from
[15:29] yourself. It's making you miserable,
[15:33] right? And you don't think about that
[15:35] way. Your tendency will be to blame
[15:38] other people for your depression, your
[15:40] unhappiness or the world. Okay? But
[15:43] there's something about how you
[15:45] experience life that can alter all of
[15:48] that. And in in experiencing life in
[15:51] this different kind of zone, this
[15:53] different kind of level, it doesn't mean
[15:56] you can't go around about your
[15:58] day-to-day work. you can't get things
[15:59] done.
[16:00] >> In fact, being so anxious and depressed
[16:03] and having thinking about constantly
[16:05] about emails you have to respond to is
[16:07] not making your your career, your
[16:09] parenting, your relationships any
[16:11] better. No,
[16:12] >> it's probably making you crazy, right?
[16:15] >> So, in some ways, feeling like there's
[16:18] something greater than your ego out in
[16:20] the world is going to make it almost
[16:22] easier to to function in the day-to-day
[16:24] life. So I want to make it clear that
[16:28] this is a book that can actually make
[16:30] life easier for you if you can absorb
[16:32] some of the lessons.
[16:33] >> For those that chase success, money or
[16:36] fame and it they realize that it doesn't
[16:40] give them the ultimate fulfillment
[16:41] they're looking for.
[16:43] How can chasing or tapping into the
[16:47] sublime bring them more joy and
[16:49] fulfillment than
[16:51] money, success or fame?
[16:54] Well, it's a it's a well-known apherism,
[16:56] and I write about it in the laws of
[16:58] human nature that if you make things
[17:01] like money and success your goal, it's
[17:03] almost you're going to get in your own
[17:05] way and you're going to make life
[17:06] harder. So, the most successful people
[17:08] in the world, you can take you can take
[17:11] example like a Steve Jobs for instance,
[17:14] notoriously, he never cared about money.
[17:18] >> He he he wouldn't spend it. He lived in
[17:20] a very plain apartment. He didn't buy
[17:22] all these. What his motivation was was
[17:26] creating these beautiful objects was
[17:28] design. He was a designer more than
[17:30] anything. He wanted to marry
[17:33] technology with beautiful aesthetic
[17:36] design. Right? It was his obsession.
[17:40] And in the process of mastering that and
[17:42] the pleasure it gave him and the flow
[17:45] which is a subject in mastery, he made a
[17:48] lot of money. more money than a lot of
[17:51] you know almost anybody else right so I
[17:55] don't know Elon Musk I don't know him
[17:58] personally I know I can understand Steve
[18:00] Jobs better but I have a feeling that
[18:02] what motivates him is the excitement of
[18:05] some new bit of technology that he cri
[18:08] something like out of a comic book a car
[18:10] that can fly whoa more than I know money
[18:15] is certainly is probably important to
[18:16] him but I think the the real motivation
[18:19] is the excitement of creating something
[18:21] that he imagined. Right.
[18:23] >> Right.
[18:23] >> So, this isn't a book that's going to
[18:26] make you more successful in life. I I
[18:29] understand that. So, maybe you'll be put
[18:31] off in reading about it. But to feel
[18:35] like there's something larger than
[18:37] yourself, that you're connected to
[18:38] something deep.
[18:40] For so many millennia, we humans needed
[18:43] religion. We needed the feeling that
[18:45] there was something transcendent,
[18:47] greater than our self, our ego, our
[18:49] individual self. It kind of grounded us
[18:52] in the sense that there's something much
[18:54] more important, much vaster, right? And
[18:56] that sense of connection was very
[18:59] healing to the human being because we're
[19:02] the only animal that's conscious of our
[19:04] mortality and our death. And if we think
[19:07] about it, we go, why go on doing
[19:10] anything when it's all going to be
[19:11] canceled out by death? Religion was an
[19:14] incredibly important value in our world
[19:16] and it's largely disappeared. You can't
[19:19] get through life without having coming
[19:22] to terms with some of these things. At
[19:24] some point, your health is going to
[19:27] leave you. You're going to suffer. Your
[19:30] relationships will fall apart. People
[19:31] you know are going to die. And you're
[19:34] going to be confronting the bare
[19:36] realities of life and how harsh it can
[19:38] be. And you're going to want to have
[19:41] something that grounds you in that's
[19:43] more than just money, more than just
[19:44] success, more than your ego. And if you
[19:47] haven't been developing this in your 20s
[19:50] and 30s, you get to your 60s and 70s and
[19:53] you can't cope. You can't handle what
[19:56] life is throwing at you. So I must I
[20:00] have to say it this isn't a practical
[20:02] book for success. It's a practical book
[20:06] for living your life, experiencing life
[20:08] on a higher level. That's the practical
[20:10] value in it.
[20:10] >> Well, the and the the flip side of that,
[20:13] when you live your life on a higher
[20:15] level, you're should be able to attract
[20:18] more success, more opportunities, more
[20:20] experiences that bring you more joy.
[20:22] >> Yeah.
[20:22] >> And when you're in that joy state, you
[20:24] typically can create better results in
[20:26] your life. Typically,
[20:28] >> I have a chapter in there about love.
[20:31] It's called the love sublime. And I'm
[20:33] trying to say that love between two
[20:36] humans is like the highest form of the
[20:39] sublime in so many ways. Okay? And the
[20:43] reason is
[20:45] we're we humans have two sides to us.
[20:48] We're physical. We're an animal. We we
[20:50] have sexual desires. We want that kind
[20:53] of pleasure. We're also spiritual
[20:57] creatures that are aware of our
[20:58] mortality, are aware of higher things,
[21:00] and we have spiritual cravings for
[21:03] something transcendent. Okay?
[21:06] Just sex by itself is a kind of an
[21:09] emptiness.
[21:11] We we get sat, we get that satisfaction,
[21:13] then we want more or something. It
[21:14] doesn't really fulfill us. There's
[21:16] something missing.
[21:18] pure spirituality, going to the church,
[21:21] you know, it could be great, but we're
[21:24] also physical beings. And so there's
[21:26] something seemingly alienating about
[21:29] that. In the love sublime, you're
[21:31] combining the physical attraction to a
[21:33] person with the spiritual. Your love
[21:35] becomes something spiritual. The person
[21:38] that you are attracted to, normally the
[21:43] people in our lives are objects. they we
[21:45] just pass them by, you know, we we see
[21:47] them like anything else, right? In love
[21:50] sublime, that person becomes a subject.
[21:53] They live inside of you. You can connect
[21:55] to their consciousness. They become a
[21:57] part of you. Okay?
[21:59] >> The reason I'm mentioning this is we
[22:02] have the metaphor of falling in love and
[22:04] it's like literally falling. Okay? And
[22:07] there's a fear of that falling. We fear
[22:11] if we get too far, we're vulnerable and
[22:14] we're going to get hurt. And so we stop
[22:17] it, right? We start having doubts and
[22:21] mistrust and I don't know if I can trust
[22:23] this person. They might hurt me. You
[22:25] know, then power struggles start
[22:27] emerging. And the moment you stop the
[22:30] process of falling, the other person
[22:32] feels that
[22:34] and it causes them to distrust you and
[22:36] it causes them to stop falling. So your
[22:40] attitude affects the other person. But
[22:43] by letting go and letting yourself fall
[22:45] deeper into what I'm calling the love
[22:47] sublime, the other person is drawn into
[22:49] that and and goes into the same process.
[22:52] So how you feel about the world, how you
[22:56] feel about yourself
[22:58] translates to other people.
[23:00] >> And in this one instance, that sensation
[23:02] of letting go of your defenses and your
[23:04] ego is going to draw the other person
[23:06] into that. So there is a power that
[23:09] comes in in in submitting to the
[23:11] sublime.
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[24:24] book uh the law of the sublime you know
[24:27] and the first words you write are about
[24:30] how you owe your life to your wife.
[24:32] >> Yeah.
[24:33] >> How has your relationship with the law
[24:36] of love and the sublime
[24:40] transformed since having your stroke
[24:43] eight years ago in your marriage? How
[24:45] has that law of the love of sublime
[24:48] transformed in some way for you?
[24:51] Well, u we had been together for many
[24:55] years and like any couple, we had our
[24:57] ups and downs, but it was we had a very
[25:00] strong bond and then um
[25:04] it's hard to explain, but when somebody
[25:07] saves your life, you have a it kind of
[25:11] alters things.
[25:12] >> A literal saving, not just, oh, you
[25:14] saved me by coming into my life, but she
[25:16] saved you from dying.
[25:18] >> Yeah. because I was driving my car in
[25:21] Los Angeles
[25:23] and she saw that my I was slurring my
[25:28] words incredibly and my face was
[25:30] falling. Half my face was drooping and
[25:33] she didn't panic. She didn't scream or
[25:36] or she just stopped the car, pull over,
[25:39] get out. He started getting out of the
[25:41] car, get back in. And she called 911
[25:43] right away. She kept her she was
[25:44] levelheaded, you know, which is a
[25:47] something a lot of people wouldn't.
[25:49] >> She's a very level-headed person. She
[25:51] saved my life because
[25:54] 30 seconds later, I would either be
[25:57] brain dead or I'd be dead.
[25:58] >> Wow.
[25:59] >> You know, they would have come, but it
[26:00] would have been too late to get the
[26:02] blood flowing back to my brain cuz my
[26:04] brain there was a blood clot and no
[26:06] blood was flowing to the brain. So when
[26:09] someone saves your life, there's there's
[26:12] a different obviously a different kind
[26:14] of feeling, right? And uh I always very
[26:18] much loved her. I still love her. But it
[26:19] it it was like something even deeper. I
[26:23] I have to look at her through new eyes.
[26:25] I have to see
[26:27] >> that I am here because of her. You know,
[26:31] I literally
[26:33] would not have a brain to write a book
[26:35] or I wouldn't I'd be dead, right? So,
[26:38] you know, you have to think about that
[26:40] every day as you look in the mirror, as
[26:42] you get up in the morning, and as you
[26:44] look at her, this person that that did
[26:46] that for you. And so,
[26:49] beyond which she had to deal with this
[26:52] lump of human flesh, me, that couldn't
[26:56] do anything for months. I was like a
[26:58] baby.
[26:59] >> Wow. and she had to be patient and she
[27:02] had to be loving and she had she didn't
[27:04] want to lose me but she had to also
[27:07] pretty much take care of me and I you
[27:10] know I don't like being dependent I'm a
[27:13] very independent person so it was rough
[27:16] for me but her patience and and she's
[27:20] still very much patient and understands
[27:22] my limitations
[27:24] I don't know what more can you get out
[27:25] of another human being you know so we
[27:28] already had a very deep bond. We don't
[27:31] have children. We have pets which are
[27:34] are our children and she's a filmmaker
[27:37] and I write books and so we have those
[27:39] are our children. But our bond is very
[27:42] powerful both through the book through
[27:45] what we've experienced because she said
[27:48] that that was the worst day of her life.
[27:49] She she saw very how close she came to
[27:52] losing me. So it just brought us that
[27:56] much more closer. What was the biggest
[27:58] lesson for you over the last eight years
[28:01] that you've learned about love, seeing
[28:04] it with new eyes? We're so wrapped up in
[28:07] words and language and ideas that we
[28:09] don't understand that we're animals.
[28:11] >> Mhm.
[28:13] >> And that our communication to other
[28:15] people happens prever un preverbally.
[28:19] Other people sense your emotions. They
[28:22] sense your defensive, you're insecure.
[28:25] If you sense for me that I don't like
[28:27] you Lewis, which is the opposite, but if
[28:29] you sense that,
[28:30] >> you would have a much different
[28:32] relationship to me, right? I don't have
[28:34] to say a word. We were talking about
[28:35] this earlier, right?
[28:37] >> So, I know that um the moment I start
[28:42] getting my ego starts popping up with a
[28:44] little voice going, am I getting enough
[28:47] attention? Is she does she really love
[28:49] me enough? Is she helping me enough? I
[28:52] go, get down. That's that's stupid.
[28:54] That's ridiculous, right? If I let my
[28:57] ego constantly come up with defensive,
[29:00] resistant reaction type things that are
[29:03] happen a lot with couples, she would
[29:05] sense that and it would have this kind
[29:08] of back and forth dynamic.
[29:09] >> Yeah.
[29:10] >> So the idea is in your relationship, you
[29:14] can change that back and forth dynamic
[29:16] by how you relate to the other person.
[29:19] You can when your ego starts pro popping
[29:23] up and you hear its voice, you can say,
[29:25] "Wait a minute. I don't need to go
[29:26] there. It's going to cause problems.
[29:28] It's not important. The ego isn't
[29:30] important. What's important is giving to
[29:32] the other person."
[29:33] >> Mhm.
[29:34] >> If you give to the other person, they're
[29:35] invited to give to you. So, I learned
[29:39] that in a very powerful way because my
[29:42] ego was dealt a very severe blow with
[29:45] the stroke. I can't I'm somebody that
[29:48] likes to swim, to hike, to bike, travel.
[29:52] I can't do anything. I'm like, you know,
[29:55] I'm like this helpless creature. And so
[29:58] I became very aware of how small I am
[30:02] and how I am not this powerful person.
[30:05] And it kind of altered how I look at
[30:08] myself and how I deal with my ego. And
[30:11] that was the most important lesson in in
[30:13] in the relationship that I've had since.
[30:16] >> Would you say that most of our pain and
[30:18] suffering in life comes from focusing
[30:21] too much on ourselves, what we lack in
[30:23] our ego?
[30:25] >> Very much so. I mean, um, you know,
[30:28] we're first of all, we're a social
[30:30] animal and we can't our whole sense of
[30:35] self and who we are comes from being
[30:37] around other people. If you've ever been
[30:39] alone for a long period of time, strange
[30:43] things start happening to you. You start
[30:44] wondering about yourself. You you you
[30:46] lose connection to reality.
[30:48] >> We need other people to validate
[30:50] ourselves. We need to be seen through
[30:52] their eyes. So, we're a social animal,
[30:56] but we're also an animal
[30:59] that's aware that we're going to die
[31:01] someday and that there are these forces
[31:05] that are much more immense than we are.
[31:08] like the universe itself, like life on
[31:10] planet Earth, like like 13 14 billion
[31:14] years of the life of our universe, like
[31:16] four billion years of our planet, we're
[31:19] aware of how incredibly insignificant
[31:22] and small that we are, right? And so
[31:27] to the degree that we can get get
[31:29] outside of ourselves, we can heal some
[31:32] of those wounds that came from that
[31:33] period I mentioned earlier as a child
[31:36] where we were absorbed in the world and
[31:38] then we lose it. It's a wound that that
[31:40] it's constantly afflicting us. We can
[31:42] heal it. There's a story in there of a
[31:45] psychotherapist in Buenos Aries in
[31:48] Argentina who has a patient named
[31:50] Miguel. Miguel is happily married,
[31:54] beautiful wife, three loving, devoted
[31:57] children, a beautiful house, a great
[31:59] job, but something is missing. He's
[32:03] unhappy. He doesn't know what it is.
[32:05] Something feels flat in his life. So, he
[32:08] goes to this therapist and they talk and
[32:10] they talk. They go through his
[32:11] childhood. They go through all of his
[32:13] grievances, all his problems at work.
[32:16] And the therapist is thinking, "This
[32:17] isn't going anywhere. you know, we're
[32:20] just going around in circles. And
[32:22] finally, one day, he says, "We're going
[32:24] to stop all of this.
[32:27] We're going to train for three months,
[32:28] you and I. You're not going to ask me
[32:30] why. And we're going to go and climb
[32:33] Aanakwa, Akanagwa,
[32:36] the highest mountain in the southern
[32:37] hemisphere in Argentina, right in the
[32:40] Andes.
[32:42] One of the most amazing. It's like the
[32:43] Mount Everest of the Andes." Okay? And
[32:47] uh don't ask me why. we're just going to
[32:49] train and we're going to go do that. And
[32:50] the guy goes, "All right, all right." So
[32:52] they train, they finally make this climb
[32:54] and it's the most insane experience.
[32:58] There's storms, their their lives are at
[33:00] stake. The stars at night are
[33:02] spectacular. The scenery, the landscape
[33:04] is just unworldly.
[33:07] And then they they don't make it to the
[33:09] top because the weather's bad. And they
[33:10] come home, but the guy is transformed.
[33:13] And the idea is all of the talking just
[33:17] centers you on your ego.
[33:19] >> Getting outside of yourself and going to
[33:21] a landscape like that and putting your
[33:24] life at risk and seeing the stars and
[33:26] seeing the universe makes you realize
[33:28] that what is bothering you is so
[33:30] insignificant that it alters your scale
[33:33] of values.
[33:34] >> So opening up to what I call the cosmic
[33:36] sublime is a way to kind of heal some of
[33:40] the wounds that your ego inflicts. You
[33:43] know when I think of sublime for me
[33:45] personally I think of God. I think of
[33:50] when I think of awe I think of wonder
[33:52] like and questioning
[33:55] how is this all happening? What is this
[33:57] universe? Even though it's we we know
[33:59] what it's made up of but how is it
[34:01] really made up of that? How long you
[34:02] know why are we here? Is the soul
[34:05] returning from somewhere else? Where
[34:06] does the soul go afterwards? All these
[34:08] things made me think of God. this idea
[34:10] of sublime.
[34:12] How has your relationship
[34:14] or view of God evolved
[34:18] since writing this book?
[34:20] >> Well, um I'm not I was I was born
[34:25] Jewish, but I never really got into the
[34:28] faith because it just didn't relate to
[34:29] me growing up in Los Angeles in the late
[34:32] 1960s. It had no relevance. So, I have
[34:36] no organized religious background. I've
[34:40] had girlfriends who were Christian and
[34:42] I've kind of see saw what you know the
[34:44] world through their eyes. I you know
[34:47] I've been doing a form of meditation
[34:50] that's from Buddhism and I'm very much
[34:52] involved in that but there's no God in
[34:54] Buddhism.
[34:56] But so I'll say this though. Um first of
[35:00] all I have deep respect for religions
[35:02] and I recently reread the New Testament
[35:05] and it was just like it's incredibly
[35:07] beautiful document and
[35:09] >> just as literature it's it's so
[35:10] beautiful. But I'll say this. In the
[35:15] cosmic sublime, I explain the insane
[35:20] chain of circumstances that led to the
[35:23] formation of planet Earth and life on
[35:25] Earth. Starting from the Big Bang and
[35:28] how things could have gone completely
[35:30] differently, how a slight change in the
[35:33] temperature, there would be no matter
[35:36] because particles couldn't cohhere.
[35:38] there would be no light because photons
[35:40] of light couldn't happen. There would
[35:42] only be darkness. And how the first star
[35:44] evolved and then exploded which sent all
[35:47] the elements that that seated other
[35:49] planets happened and there was almost a
[35:51] chance that didn't happen. On and on and
[35:54] on to planet Earth, this this rock,
[35:58] right?
[35:59] >> It's crazy. that that gets
[36:01] >> hit by another planet
[36:03] uh called Thea, another moon that now
[36:07] creates the uh the iron core of our
[36:10] planet that changes the tilt of our
[36:12] planet and all these details that go
[36:16] into place that are just enough for the
[36:19] life to form. If we were 2% closer to
[36:23] the sun, life would not have happened,
[36:26] right?
[36:27] And that planet that hit Earth that
[36:29] caused the things that also allowed for
[36:31] our planet to have an environment, the
[36:33] chances of it hitting us exactly the way
[36:34] it did are in insane. All right. When
[36:38] you go checklist of all these things
[36:40] that happened with our, you know, the
[36:43] the uh magnetic field that protects us
[36:46] from radiation, the oceans that came
[36:49] from a thousand years of raining that
[36:51] filled all the asteroid basins that gave
[36:53] us water, the elements that came
[36:56] probably from asteroids. The
[36:58] unlikeliness of this makes you think,
[37:01] is there a purpose there? Was there some
[37:03] reason for this? Was there some reason
[37:06] that all of this came together
[37:09] so that
[37:11] uh humans 13 billion 14 almost 14
[37:15] billion years after the big bang could
[37:17] be conscious and recreate this entire
[37:20] story of our universe. Maybe other
[37:24] people on other planets have but maybe
[37:26] not. It almost makes you wonder if there
[37:30] was a purpose if something is going on
[37:32] for a reason. Right? To me, that's the
[37:35] closest I can get to this eerie
[37:37] sensation that there is something out
[37:40] there that's guiding it. But it it might
[37:42] be irrational, but you get that feeling
[37:44] when you read this story.
[37:46] >> The crazy thing is, you know, my my
[37:48] twins just turned one yesterday, and my
[37:52] mom is staying with us right now. My
[37:55] wife's parents were with us, and some of
[37:57] their family were there having a little
[37:58] celebration.
[38:00] And at the end of it last night, I was
[38:02] just hugging my wife,
[38:04] talking about how great of a job she's
[38:06] done over the last year as a mom and
[38:08] going through the challenges she went
[38:09] through. And I was just like, you know,
[38:12] you did it and we did it and they're
[38:14] here and they're so beautiful and
[38:16] they're, you know, they're growing and
[38:17] they're developing and it's just such a
[38:19] joy to be around these two beings every
[38:22] moment we have with them. And I was
[38:25] telling my mom, I was like, "Mom, thank
[38:27] you for, you know, having me so that we
[38:31] could have these girls and like none of
[38:34] this would be possible without you."
[38:35] >> Yeah.
[38:36] >> And I She's been telling me more about
[38:38] her life stories over the last, you
[38:40] know, couple of years about her
[38:41] childhood and then how she met my dad
[38:43] and just the chances of them meeting and
[38:46] then their parents, the ch and like you
[38:47] just go all the way back
[38:50] >> for my kids to be born. The chances are
[38:52] so slim on everything lining up to be
[38:57] here now. And for us to be here now, 14
[39:01] years later after our first interview,
[39:03] episode one, it's episode 2001.
[39:06] >> It's got, you know, the you call it
[39:07] cosmic sublime, right? It's like, but
[39:09] there's got to be some purpose to all
[39:11] this, right?
[39:12] >> Um, well, first of all, so your that's
[39:15] that's absolutely perfect. So you talk
[39:17] about your parents. I calculated or or I
[39:21] read somewhere that there have been
[39:22] 70,000 generations of humans going back
[39:25] to the first homo sapiens.
[39:28] So that chance encounter happened 70,000
[39:31] times. That's crazy,
[39:33] >> right? Okay. Now, you may have been
[39:36] born, but you'd be in a completely
[39:37] different fashion. You wouldn't be Lewis
[39:39] House. Who knows what you'd be? Okay.
[39:42] But also
[39:44] uh 66 million years ago, an asteroid hit
[39:48] Mexico, the Yucatan Peninsula.
[39:50] >> Oh yeah.
[39:51] >> The most devastating experience in
[39:53] history of our planet. I have a I retell
[39:56] the story of that last day of the
[39:58] dinosaurs in the book. I did a lot of
[40:01] research because I like that day. One
[40:04] day where all of life practically
[40:07] disappeared on planet Earth.
[40:08] >> Crazy. if that asteroid. So, if you
[40:11] think about it, the asteroid was pretty
[40:13] large. It was like the size of a of a
[40:15] skyscraper. It was a very big one. But
[40:18] if you think of the empty space in the
[40:20] universe and the chances of it hitting
[40:22] the Yucatan Peninsula where it caused
[40:24] the maximum damage because of these
[40:27] limestone beds that were there and the
[40:29] water and the tsunamis, if it had missed
[40:32] if that hadn't happened, dinosaurs would
[40:34] be roaming the planet or something else
[40:36] and we wouldn't be here. But look at
[40:39] your children. I mean, the the fact of
[40:42] life being created is one of the
[40:44] strangest most, if you just thought
[40:46] about it, it's so weird to see these
[40:49] these beings come come into life, you
[40:52] know,
[40:52] >> when they were tiny little cells at one
[40:54] point. Yeah. And now they it's it's
[40:56] crazy.
[40:57] >> Yeah. And and their bodies are are like
[41:01] these miracles of of of something. I
[41:04] don't know what. So recently, I had
[41:06] surgery on my left eye. you might see
[41:08] little signs in it.
[41:09] >> Um, I had a a a cancerous growth on my
[41:12] eyelid. The doctor removed it. It was
[41:15] very bloody and there's like a hole
[41:17] there.
[41:18] In 2 and 1/2 weeks, it's all like healed
[41:22] itself.
[41:22] >> Wow.
[41:24] >> The powers of our body are just insane.
[41:26] But it's like millions of years of
[41:29] evolution going into your children's
[41:32] bodies.
[41:33] My book is about just stopping for a
[41:35] moment and thinking about these things
[41:38] and get your mind out of your for your
[41:40] day-to-day problems and just realize
[41:43] the chance the unlikeliness of you being
[41:46] who you are and being in this world
[41:48] right now. My book is there are like 12
[41:50] I call them doors 12 doors outside that
[41:53] circle and the word sublime means up to
[41:57] the threshold of a door in in Latin up
[41:59] to the threshold. And so I'm taking you
[42:02] up to the threshold and you're looking
[42:03] outside the circle. Okay? And there are
[42:06] 12 different versions of that. The last
[42:09] one being death,
[42:11] >> looking through the the doorway of death
[42:13] itself.
[42:14] >> So I could have had more points around
[42:17] the circle, but that's what it ended up
[42:19] being. And uh it g kind of gives you a
[42:22] complete feel of what it could be to
[42:25] experience this other reality that is
[42:27] outside of what we normally experience.
[42:30] The School of Greatness is brought to
[42:31] you in partnership with Airbnb. One of
[42:34] my favorite parts of travel is when a
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[42:37] really plan for. You're walking through
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[42:41] grabbing coffee. You're talking to
[42:42] someone local. And suddenly the place
[42:45] feels a little bit more familiar. These
[42:47] are the moments that stay with me.
[42:49] They're the things that I crave. Not
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[43:34] What would you say is then the enemy of
[43:36] sublime for people?
[43:37] >> Well, is it focusing on their their
[43:39] their stressful thoughts, their phone,
[43:42] or just not paying attention to the
[43:43] sublime? Anything that distracts them
[43:45] from it, or what's the main enemy?
[43:46] >> Well, I have two things in the book. I
[43:48] talk it's a good question. I talk about
[43:50] the anti-subl and the false sublime.
[43:53] >> Oh,
[43:54] >> so the anti-sublime is kind of an
[43:57] attitude that you might we tend to find
[44:00] a lot in the world today where
[44:03] oh come on Robert there's nothing it's
[44:05] just the world is just what it is.
[44:07] Science teaches us they're just facts
[44:09] out there. You know, there's nothing to
[44:11] be feel awe or enchantment about. It's
[44:13] just a world as it is, right? People are
[44:16] there, the mountains are there. There's
[44:18] no reason. You're just adding like
[44:20] romantic subjective beliefs to it.
[44:23] There's no need to be subjective. It's
[44:25] just all objective scientific facts.
[44:27] >> Yeah. I was dealt the cards that I've
[44:29] been given and this is the way life is.
[44:31] >> Yeah. It's kind of a cynical, hard-edged
[44:34] view of the world under the pretense of
[44:36] being realistic, right? So, there's no
[44:40] room for romanticism or sentimentality,
[44:43] which people would think that's what my
[44:44] book is about.
[44:46] >> And it comes from a kind of a fear of
[44:50] anything different. And in the end, it's
[44:52] kind of a fear of death itself,
[44:54] >> but it's a fear of having to open up and
[44:57] be open up your heart and open up who
[45:00] you are and your emotions. Yeah,
[45:02] >> you want to just narrow things down to
[45:04] hard, brutal facts, to data, to
[45:06] algorithms, to what computers give you.
[45:10] That's the anti-sublime.
[45:13] And it's very painful because
[45:16] we were children once and we did
[45:19] experience the world as enchanted and
[45:21] world weird and strange. And to
[45:24] completely repress that is going to
[45:26] secretly make you miserable. You want
[45:28] it. The false sublime is
[45:32] you want the sublime. You want to be
[45:34] taken outside of yourself, but you want
[45:38] this. You want it to come from the
[45:39] outside. You want it to come from
[45:40] stimulation.
[45:42] So, I'll take a drug and that will give
[45:45] me the feeling, right? I'll take I'll
[45:47] drink a lot of alcohol. That will give
[45:48] me the feeling. I'll play video games or
[45:52] I'll go see Marvel movies with all these
[45:54] fantastic weird imagery. that will get
[45:57] me out of myself, right? Or I'll get
[46:00] addict any kind of addiction will do
[46:02] that or online porn or whatever it is.
[46:05] So, you want the feeling of being taken
[46:08] outside yourself, but you want that to
[46:12] come kind of easy and quick,
[46:14] >> something that you can take or something
[46:16] that somebody can give you. Whereas the
[46:19] true sublime versus the false sublime
[46:21] isn't serious comes from within. It's
[46:24] nobody's giving it to you. When you
[46:26] climb that mountain, when you look at
[46:28] your child, when you think back at your
[46:29] own childhood, there's nobody
[46:31] stimulating you or giving you these
[46:33] images. It's coming from your own
[46:35] imagination, your own experience. And
[46:38] that is much more powerful and that's
[46:39] much more enchanting and awesome than
[46:42] having it come when you're never quite
[46:44] happy and you want more and more of it
[46:46] turns into an addiction. Whereas the
[46:48] real sublime is is a much different
[46:50] experience.
[46:51] >> Interesting. From everything that you've
[46:53] studied and researched in your own
[46:55] personal experience, what do you think
[46:58] is the root cause to someone being
[47:00] addicted to an outside stimulus to try
[47:03] to give them a feeling of this
[47:07] of all addiction? What do you think is
[47:08] that root cause? Well, um I don't know,
[47:12] this might sound weird, but when you you
[47:16] spent the first nine months of your life
[47:19] or whenever it was in a womb Right.
[47:22] >> Yes.
[47:23] >> And you were inside another body and you
[47:26] were completely a part of it. Okay. And
[47:29] then you're thrown out into the world
[47:31] through the birth canal and you're
[47:33] screaming and crying and it's light and
[47:35] it's bright and and you're you're you're
[47:37] not happy but you're still your mother
[47:41] is there hopefully and you feel a deep
[47:44] powerful connection to that body that
[47:46] you once were inside, right? and you're
[47:49] sucking on its breasts and you feel that
[47:51] kind of oneness. All right?
[47:54] And then as I explained, you're slowly
[47:56] getting separated and you slowly get
[47:58] inside of your ego and you feel you feel
[48:02] the pain of disconnection and separation
[48:06] from what you once knew unconsciously
[48:09] probably obviously, right? And so an
[48:12] addiction is an attempt to get back into
[48:15] the womb. Really
[48:16] >> attempt Yes. is to get a feeling of
[48:20] something so soothing. It brings back
[48:22] the feeling of oneness. It crowds out
[48:24] all the anxiety and that feeling of
[48:27] being separated because you're you're
[48:28] like with this substance and it's taking
[48:31] you inside this other comfortable zone
[48:34] where there's nothing else in the world.
[48:36] You're protected, right? And um I feel I
[48:41] could be wrong. I'm not an expert on it.
[48:43] I feel that that is at the root of
[48:46] addictions. the sense of separation and
[48:49] trying to soo yourself and feel that and
[48:52] get over that anxiety that it causes. I
[48:55] saw this story
[48:57] online. There's a video I think I think
[49:00] Wayne Dyer might have said it originally
[49:02] about it's kind of relevant for my my
[49:05] situation. It's about twins who are
[49:08] having a conversation in the womb,
[49:10] right? Imagine twins in the womb having
[49:12] a conversation and saying, you know, is
[49:15] there life after the womb? And you're
[49:18] saying to yourself, you know, is there
[49:20] life after the womb?
[49:22] You know, it's safe in here.
[49:24] >> Yeah.
[49:24] >> It's safe in here. I feel a presence,
[49:27] but I don't know what it is. But after
[49:29] the womb, like we're going to die.
[49:31] >> Yeah.
[49:31] >> You know, there's no more life. Cuz how
[49:33] are we going to live once we're not
[49:34] connected to your mother anymore? How
[49:36] are we going to get fed?
[49:37] >> Yeah.
[49:37] >> It's a different way of living, right?
[49:39] I'm curious. Have you on all your
[49:41] research on the sublime,
[49:43] what do you feel like happens after
[49:45] life?
[49:46] >> I mean, this is not quite answering your
[49:48] question, but everyone was dead once
[49:51] already.
[49:52] >> Mhm.
[49:53] >> So, before you were born, you didn't
[49:56] exist. So, if you think about it, uh,
[49:59] you were kind of dead already.
[50:01] >> Mhm.
[50:01] >> And when you were in the womb, you're
[50:03] already kind of close to that moment
[50:05] where you didn't exist, which is a form
[50:07] of death. So now you're returning to it.
[50:10] You're returning to where you once were.
[50:13] Look, I the last chapter is on the death
[50:16] sublime.
[50:18] It's very important because it's
[50:19] near-death experiences, which I didn't
[50:22] have as powerful a near-death experience
[50:24] as those who see angels and light and
[50:26] all these other things happening. So I
[50:27] have to qualify, but I had a near-death
[50:30] experience.
[50:31] And so I did a lot of research and I
[50:33] wrote a lot of stories in the book. to
[50:36] me some of the the most interesting
[50:38] stories about people who had near-death
[50:39] experiences.
[50:41] Now, I don't personally have any uh
[50:45] experience of like angels or or God or
[50:50] seeing my dead relatives, which a lot of
[50:52] people do have. And so, there's a lot of
[50:55] literature on it. Um, and some people
[50:59] believe that these experiences prove the
[51:02] existence of an afterlife.
[51:05] I'm not going to go there because it's
[51:06] not my experience and I can only write
[51:08] about what my experience is.
[51:11] There are very interesting books. A book
[51:14] I highly recommend called after. It's a
[51:16] excellent book, a scientist.
[51:18] >> His name is Bruce Gerson, something like
[51:21] that. He's like studied all of these uh
[51:25] after- deathath experiences. And he he's
[51:27] a scientist, but he's also made to
[51:29] wonder, is there something going on
[51:31] here? And there are examples of people
[51:33] who were hardcore scientists who
[51:35] suddenly think that there might be
[51:37] evidence of an afterlife. Okay. But what
[51:40] I will say is very strange things happen
[51:44] in the near-death experience.
[51:46] >> Really?
[51:46] >> Yes.
[51:47] >> So I have two stories in there. Um I
[51:51] have many more but two of them are. So
[51:53] there's this woman who named Pamela
[51:56] Reynolds Lowry very famous story in the
[51:58] near-death literature.
[52:00] She has a brain anerism that could pop
[52:04] at any moment and kill her, but it's at
[52:06] the base of her brain, which makes it
[52:08] extremely difficult to put a clip on to
[52:11] stop it from popping. So, she's at risk
[52:14] any she's like in her 20s. Any day it
[52:16] could pop and she'll die. And there's no
[52:18] way to get that far down.
[52:20] >> So, there's this man in Arizona who's
[52:22] devised a possible surgery that could
[52:26] work. And what it is is he freezes the
[52:30] body. He takes all the blood out and he
[52:33] cools it and he puts it back in at a
[52:35] temperature in like 50° where the where
[52:38] the you're actually you're dead.
[52:40] >> Come on.
[52:41] >> Yeah. He he brings you as close to death
[52:43] as you can. He puts you on a heart lung
[52:46] monitor to keep you breathing from a
[52:48] machine, but everything is stopped.
[52:51] Okay. And
[52:53] >> there's no blood flow.
[52:54] >> No. Hopefully. Well, the heart lung
[52:56] machine is keeping things right, but
[52:59] there's nothing in the body,
[53:00] >> right? Wow.
[53:01] >> And so, um,
[53:04] >> this happened.
[53:05] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[53:06] >> Holy cow.
[53:06] >> There's a name for it. I I talked about
[53:08] it in the book. And anyway, he he puts
[53:12] these things in your ears to make sure
[53:14] that there's no brain activity because
[53:16] he has to completely stop the brain so
[53:19] that he can see down far enough into the
[53:23] brain to see the anorism and put the
[53:25] clip on. If there's activity going on,
[53:27] he it's too dis I don't I'm not a
[53:29] surgeon. Okay.
[53:31] >> So, these things in the ears, you can't
[53:33] hear anything when you're and and the
[53:36] brain it's monitoring. There's no
[53:37] activity in the brain. He puts you in a
[53:39] barbituate coma, right? And so you're
[53:43] essentially as close to death as a human
[53:45] being can be, right?
[53:47] He and then your eyes are all are taped
[53:50] shut, etc. Okay, she's in this hospital
[53:54] room and it and she last thing she
[53:57] remembers is the sound of the wheels of
[53:59] the gurnie and then she's out of it.
[54:02] Suddenly in the middle of the operation,
[54:03] she wakes up.
[54:04] >> Come on.
[54:05] >> Yeah. And she finds herself perched on
[54:09] the shoulder of the doctor. Okay. And
[54:12] she sees him taking out this weird looks
[54:15] like an electric toothbrush. What is
[54:18] that? And he's putting attachments on
[54:19] that look like a pot socket wrench like
[54:21] her father used to use. And she goes,
[54:23] "Oh, that's the drill he's using to
[54:25] drill into my brain." Right. And then
[54:28] she goes higher up towards the ceiling.
[54:30] She looks down and she hears these two
[54:32] people talking about trying to find a
[54:34] vein to put something in her leg. She's
[54:37] wondering why are they messing around
[54:38] with her leg. Anyway, she goes through
[54:40] this other journey with light and dead
[54:43] relatives etc. She comes back into her
[54:46] body at the last moment and she they
[54:51] have to she feels she jumps up and down
[54:53] three times and then she hears the song
[54:54] Hotel California by the Eagles.
[54:56] >> Uhhuh.
[54:58] and then it's gone and then she's
[55:00] carried away. 12 hours later she wakes
[55:03] up from the drugs and this assistant
[55:05] doctor is there and she says, "By the
[55:08] way, let me just tell you what I
[55:10] experienced." And she tells them about
[55:13] the drill, about the two people talking,
[55:16] about the bouncing up and down three
[55:18] times, about the music, and a few other
[55:19] things. This guy's going, "What the
[55:22] are you talking about? You can't hear
[55:24] anything. Your ears are are have these
[55:26] things in them. You can't see anything.
[55:28] Your brain is dead. There's no activity.
[55:31] There's no nothing going on, right?
[55:33] There's no electrical activity in your
[55:35] brain. This is impossible.
[55:37] He goes and tells the doctor who says,
[55:40] "I've never this is I don't know what
[55:41] you got what you're smoking, but this
[55:43] this is impos this you can't be." But
[55:46] the woman is obviously she she heard
[55:49] that is the song that they were playing
[55:50] at the time.
[55:51] >> Wow. And so I have another story like I
[55:54] won't go into it but the idea is that
[55:58] your consciousness
[56:00] is not necessarily connected to your
[56:02] body. Right? If your brain is dead, if
[56:06] your mind has nothing going on, if your
[56:08] eyes are sealed, you can't hear
[56:09] anything. How can you be conscious?
[56:12] Well, maybe consciousness is something
[56:13] that exists outside the brain,
[56:16] >> right? It is something that we connect
[56:18] to with our minds when we're born. and
[56:21] it's out there in out in the environment
[56:24] and then when you're dying and the brain
[56:25] is is closing off it's connecting in
[56:28] another way but you're still conscious I
[56:31] don't know a lot of scientists find that
[56:33] ridiculous but it calls into question
[56:36] near-death experience call into question
[56:38] the very nature of our conscious a very
[56:41] profound way
[56:42] >> I mean what is your thoughts then from
[56:45] all the research you've done on energy
[56:48] and
[56:50] frequencies
[56:51] and how consciousness, the mind, the
[56:54] heart are connected through some type of
[56:56] energy or frequency that's tapping into
[57:00] the sublime nature of this universe or
[57:03] other people or being able to I don't
[57:05] know what's your thoughts on this topic?
[57:08] Well, you know, I I am a sort of a my
[57:13] background is kind of a rationalist and
[57:16] kind of a materialist, but I'm open to
[57:19] things and um [laughter] you know uh you
[57:22] you you wonder sometimes and in my
[57:26] connection to death, I had sensations
[57:28] that you can't rationally explain. like
[57:30] I was there witnessing my own funeral
[57:34] essentially uh with my mother and my
[57:37] wife there at my funeral and stuff and
[57:40] um but
[57:43] there is a lot of scientists,
[57:47] physicists, neuroscientists etc who
[57:51] prescribe to an idea called pansychism
[57:54] or in some version of it.
[57:56] >> What's it called?
[57:57] >> Pansychism.
[57:58] >> What does that mean? It means that pan
[58:02] means everywhere everything and it and
[58:04] psychism. So it's like consciousness and
[58:07] and and psyche are everywhere in the
[58:11] universe.
[58:12] >> The question is how could we become
[58:14] conscious if there wasn't already
[58:16] something else out there like it? It's
[58:18] like uh the chicken and the egg
[58:20] syndrome, right? How could consciousness
[58:23] emerge from nothing? It's the same
[58:27] paradox of how could the universe emerge
[58:29] from nothing? How could life emerge from
[58:32] nothing, right? It's very can't get your
[58:34] mind around it and science can't seem to
[58:36] explain it. Some people believe and
[58:38] they're very eminent people. They're not
[58:41] quacks who believe that there's a
[58:43] consciousness that pervades the
[58:45] universe.
[58:45] >> Really?
[58:46] >> Yeah.
[58:47] >> And that all that happened was we humans
[58:51] now are tapping into the consciousness
[58:53] that is out there. And I'm not doing a
[58:55] great job of explaining it. It's much
[58:56] more interesting than that. But it's
[58:59] everywhere already in the universe and
[59:01] that we are are tapping into it. And
[59:03] that there is essentially
[59:07] so in Buddhism they call it one mind and
[59:11] the idea they say
[59:14] mind is Buddha, Buddha is mind. And so
[59:18] the mind consciousness is everywhere and
[59:21] you're just a part of that and you're
[59:23] tapping into it. It's transcendent. It's
[59:25] a transcendent consciousness. And it
[59:28] explains why we humans have transcendent
[59:31] feelings and emotions and why we feel we
[59:34] feel that there's something larger out
[59:36] there than what we can rationally
[59:38] explain. We feel like there's something
[59:39] bigger out there than what our minds and
[59:43] our egos can can can
[59:46] describe, you know, and that's really
[59:49] the essence of the sublime things
[59:52] that are beyond words that you can't
[59:54] really explain. And so I find it
[59:58] extremely fascinating idea and subject.
[1:00:00] And I in my meditating I can kind of I
[1:00:04] can kind of try to go there and imagine
[1:00:06] it. I can't say for sure that it's a
[1:00:10] 100% this is the reality, but it
[1:00:13] fascinates me this concept.
[1:00:15] >> From everything that you've researched
[1:00:16] and studied and also your own experience
[1:00:20] at this season of your life, do you feel
[1:00:21] like there is a God of some sorts?
[1:00:25] >> Even if there is a God, you you actually
[1:00:29] can't know it. It's like you have to
[1:00:30] experience it, right? It's not a
[1:00:32] question of knowledge like I can like a
[1:00:36] formula like in words. It's a feeling
[1:00:38] >> experience
[1:00:40] >> of of that sensation of something much
[1:00:42] larger than yourself.
[1:00:44] >> I've had that sensation. I don't know if
[1:00:47] it's like the God of Judaism, the God of
[1:00:51] the Trinity of, you know, the Holy
[1:00:54] Spirit. I can say if it's the the God of
[1:00:59] Islam. I don't know. But there's a
[1:01:01] sensation that there is something larger
[1:01:03] than yourself and there's something
[1:01:05] unifying the universe. Now in Buddhism
[1:01:08] and in other indigenous cultures there
[1:01:11] is a concept of one energy that it
[1:01:15] permeates the universe right um and in
[1:01:19] ancient Egypt it was called ba in
[1:01:21] Buddhism it has another name I can't
[1:01:23] remember it and I talk in this about an
[1:01:26] African culture that had a similar
[1:01:28] concept and the idea is that everything
[1:01:31] in the universe originated from one
[1:01:33] thing right and if everything in the
[1:01:36] universe origin from one thing the big
[1:01:38] bang then everything in the universe is
[1:01:41] connected is part of one
[1:01:43] >> right
[1:01:43] >> so there's one energy that permeates
[1:01:45] everything so when you sense in whatever
[1:01:49] practice you have or in every moment
[1:01:52] that oneness that everything originated
[1:01:53] from one thing including yourself
[1:01:57] that could is a sort of an experience of
[1:01:59] god in some way
[1:02:00] >> yes what did ancient civilizations
[1:02:04] think know or do differently
[1:02:07] that we don't do today.
[1:02:10] >> When I went to college, I studied
[1:02:11] ancient Greek and so that was I'm
[1:02:13] fascinated with ancient cultures and
[1:02:15] their languages and their belief
[1:02:17] systems. So um in this chapter I try I
[1:02:22] tell a story of the greatest um ritual
[1:02:26] in the history of religion called the
[1:02:28] Elucinian mysteries. It existed for a
[1:02:31] thousand years in ancient Greece and it
[1:02:33] was also in ancient Rome. And um it was
[1:02:38] the most powerful uh religious
[1:02:40] experience anybody could ever have gone
[1:02:42] through. And I'm not going to tell you
[1:02:45] all the details cuz I I don't want your
[1:02:47] your listeners to go crazy with this
[1:02:49] stuff. But um I take you through the
[1:02:52] entire ritual
[1:02:54] as much as I could because it's a
[1:02:56] mystery and nobody was allowed to ever
[1:02:59] talk about it or they would be killed.
[1:03:00] >> Wow.
[1:03:01] >> But we know certain facts and we've been
[1:03:03] able to piece together certain things. I
[1:03:06] take you the reader listener reader
[1:03:08] through this ritual, right? And it gives
[1:03:11] you a feeling of dying and then being
[1:03:15] reborn. Okay. But the essence of the
[1:03:17] story is to tell you that your idea of
[1:03:20] pagan gods, ancient Greek gods, Egyptian
[1:03:23] gods, whatever, is completely wrong.
[1:03:28] They're not these silly little uh
[1:03:30] personifications, anthropomorphized
[1:03:33] entities out in there bickering, doing
[1:03:35] things like Zeus in the sky, like how we
[1:03:38] figure imagery of it. There's nothing to
[1:03:41] do with that. They are forces of nature.
[1:03:44] They are spirits. They are waves of
[1:03:47] energy that permeate the universe. So
[1:03:49] Aphrodite is this energy, the goddess of
[1:03:52] love is this energy that permeates the
[1:03:55] universe that makes things want to come
[1:03:58] together, that wants things want to
[1:04:00] unite sexually in whatever fashion,
[1:04:03] right? It's the goddess of love. Okay?
[1:04:06] And when an ancient person fell in love,
[1:04:10] they felt it wasn't they themselves that
[1:04:13] were feeling the love. The goddess had
[1:04:15] inhabited their body and was possessing
[1:04:17] them.
[1:04:18] >> Interesting.
[1:04:18] >> So religion to them was a feeling of
[1:04:20] being possessed
[1:04:22] by something greater than themselves by
[1:04:24] a force of nature by an energy that goes
[1:04:27] on. Zeus is something violent. It's the
[1:04:29] violence of the universe. Poseidon is
[1:04:32] the energy coming from the ocean. You
[1:04:35] know uh Pphanie was the goddess of the
[1:04:38] underworld who brings life up
[1:04:40] vegetation.
[1:04:42] You feel these energy forces through
[1:04:44] you. You feel possessed. It's not
[1:04:47] happening you by yourself, but the world
[1:04:50] is possessing you. I find it a very very
[1:04:54] beautiful concept. I'm sorry it doesn't
[1:04:56] seem very modern, but the idea that your
[1:04:59] sensations don't come from you, but come
[1:05:02] from outside you, that there's something
[1:05:04] larger going on, that when you're
[1:05:07] attracted to a person in an overwhelming
[1:05:09] way, you're being possessed by this
[1:05:12] energy that is constantly throughout the
[1:05:14] universe trying to unite things,
[1:05:15] particles, etc. And so
[1:05:19] in in the ancient Greek world, theos the
[1:05:23] word for god really means something that
[1:05:26] is you that is like a shimmering that's
[1:05:28] something very quick that's passing
[1:05:30] through. It's not a thing.
[1:05:33] >> It's like this
[1:05:33] >> like an energy or interesting
[1:05:36] >> and enthos is to be filled with that
[1:05:39] energy and it was the highest form of
[1:05:42] religious experience to feel your
[1:05:44] possession. And atheos where we get the
[1:05:46] word atheism meant
[1:05:48] >> it's without
[1:05:49] >> abandoned by the gods.
[1:05:51] >> They don't even want to bother with you.
[1:05:53] >> Wow.
[1:05:54] >> And that's like the worst feeling that
[1:05:55] you can have. I don't want to get too
[1:05:57] into the weeds into this, but the pagan
[1:05:59] indigenous experience of the world to me
[1:06:03] fascinates me because
[1:06:05] I I'm constantly experiencing these
[1:06:07] things. I'm reading about them and I'm
[1:06:09] very very attracted to that that world
[1:06:11] view.
[1:06:12] >> That's interesting. Everything you're
[1:06:13] talking about in this book is
[1:06:14] fascinating to me. I'm curious what
[1:06:17] surprised you the most in researching
[1:06:19] this or lessons you learned, things you
[1:06:22] studied, stories that brought you awe
[1:06:25] that you didn't already know.
[1:06:27] >> There's two chapters. One about the
[1:06:29] brain called the neuroslime. And the
[1:06:32] idea is that the human brain constructs
[1:06:37] what we consider to be reality. Right?
[1:06:40] So you think you're seeing the world as
[1:06:42] it is, but you're not. You're seeing the
[1:06:43] world that the brain creates for you and
[1:06:46] constructs for you. It makes everything
[1:06:48] simple. It makes everything orderly.
[1:06:50] Makes everything patterned and familiar.
[1:06:53] And there's another and it's creating uh
[1:06:55] exactly how the world appears. There's
[1:06:58] another way of seeing the world, right?
[1:07:00] There's another reality out there. And I
[1:07:03] describe that and I describe the story
[1:07:05] of a woman who had a stroke. I don't
[1:07:07] know if you ever uh heard of her. Jill
[1:07:09] Bolty Taylor.
[1:07:10] >> Is this the brain surgeon? The
[1:07:12] neuroscientist who
[1:07:13] >> had a stroke.
[1:07:14] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:07:14] >> Great story. Anyway, she experienced the
[1:07:17] world for 3 hours
[1:07:20] where the brain isn't constructing what
[1:07:21] you see. And so I'm trying to go into
[1:07:24] that and show you that you can explore
[1:07:27] something similar. It connects to the
[1:07:29] next chapter which is about what I call
[1:07:32] the interspecies sublime. Huh. I happen
[1:07:35] to be a a a deep animal lover.
[1:07:38] >> You have cats or dogs?
[1:07:39] >> I have cats.
[1:07:40] >> Yeah, I've got two cats.
[1:07:41] >> You do?
[1:07:42] >> Yeah.
[1:07:42] >> Oh, I've seen them.
[1:07:44] >> You got four again. Two. Yeah, two and
[1:07:46] two. We got twin cats, you know.
[1:07:48] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:07:49] >> Yeah. Uh cats are amazing.
[1:07:50] >> They are different types of creatures.
[1:07:52] They're different. Their energy is very
[1:07:54] healing from my perspective, but they
[1:07:56] can also be kind of crazy, too, at
[1:07:57] times.
[1:07:57] >> They're definitely They're not They're
[1:07:59] part wild.
[1:08:00] >> They're not predictable.
[1:08:01] >> No, they're not. They can just start
[1:08:03] biting you like in a second. They could
[1:08:05] be calm and then you pet them a certain
[1:08:06] way like you know it's like
[1:08:08] >> yeah that's very true that's why we love
[1:08:11] them.
[1:08:12] >> Um and so in that chapter I went very
[1:08:17] deep into the research. So for instance,
[1:08:19] I tell the story of a man who's obsessed
[1:08:21] with a with a fal with a hawk and he
[1:08:24] tries to become a hawk and he follows
[1:08:27] this one hawk everywhere and he studies
[1:08:29] it and he gets so inside their way of
[1:08:32] thinking and at the very end of the
[1:08:34] story and it's a from a book and it's a
[1:08:37] fantastic book called the paragine he
[1:08:40] almost feels like he's like this hawk
[1:08:41] has accepted him and allows him to come
[1:08:43] closer and and so the point of this
[1:08:46] chapter is
[1:08:47] >> like a wild hawk hawk. Not a hawk every
[1:08:49] >> Oh, no. No. Totally. Well, it's called a
[1:08:51] paragine. It's a It's a falcon.
[1:08:53] >> Wow.
[1:08:53] >> In England. Um, and uh the supreme
[1:08:59] hunter among predator birds of prey. And
[1:09:03] I I disclaim its physiology is insane.
[1:09:05] It reaches the highest speeds of any
[1:09:07] animal on our planet. Okay. Anyway, the
[1:09:12] point is animals have a different
[1:09:15] consciousness and brain and they see a
[1:09:17] different world than we see, right? So,
[1:09:21] a hawk can see things we can't see,
[1:09:24] literally. Um, snakes feel heat. They
[1:09:29] can see heat around them and they're
[1:09:32] starting they can feel the body
[1:09:33] temperatures of things around them.
[1:09:35] Interesting. Spiders are essentially
[1:09:37] blind,
[1:09:38] >> but they feel vibrations and they live
[1:09:40] in a world of pure vibrations. Elephants
[1:09:43] can feel the vibrations in the earth and
[1:09:45] they can sense like a earthquake coming
[1:09:48] well before anybody.
[1:09:49] >> Wow.
[1:09:50] >> Um, you know, on and on and on. Birds
[1:09:53] can navigate through knowing the
[1:09:55] magnetic fields of the planet. They see
[1:09:58] a different reality than we do. It's not
[1:10:01] to say it's different, but they see a
[1:10:04] planet Earth that we our senses don't
[1:10:06] even reveal to us. But through our
[1:10:09] knowledge of their physiology and how
[1:10:11] their brains are, we can voyage into how
[1:10:13] they see the world. It's
[1:10:14] >> fascinating.
[1:10:15] >> And um I'll just end with the story.
[1:10:19] Mozart, the composer Mozart, loved
[1:10:21] animals and loved birds. And one day he
[1:10:25] passes by this he he hears somebody
[1:10:28] singing a song from one of his concerto
[1:10:31] that has never even been performed. He
[1:10:33] goes, "What is that?" He follows the
[1:10:35] sound and it's a bird singing this.
[1:10:38] >> No way.
[1:10:38] >> And it's a starling. The bird heard him
[1:10:41] um uh um rehearsing it nearby. And so
[1:10:46] he's go, "Wow." And he loves birds. So
[1:10:47] he buys the bird. It's a starling. And
[1:10:49] he names it. I think he names it star,
[1:10:51] something similar. He takes it home and
[1:10:53] he and the bird bond. He just loves that
[1:10:56] bird to death. He takes it everywhere
[1:10:58] with him. Then when the bird dies, he's
[1:11:00] like just so depressed. He has a funeral
[1:11:04] for the bird with friends. They they go
[1:11:06] on this big funeral and they bury the
[1:11:08] bird.
[1:11:09] >> Anyway, he composed a piece that was
[1:11:12] dedicated to his bird.
[1:11:14] >> Wow.
[1:11:15] >> And people the years thought this was
[1:11:17] the worst thing Mozart ever composed. It
[1:11:20] makes no sense. It's kind of ugly. It's
[1:11:22] discord. It was his great failure,
[1:11:24] right? And years later, this woman in
[1:11:27] like the 1990s, she has the same bird, a
[1:11:30] starling, right? And um
[1:11:34] she wants to see if maybe the starling
[1:11:36] will like Mozart's music. And the
[1:11:38] starling isn't really into it. It
[1:11:40] prefers bluegrass music, right? He gets
[1:11:42] really excited with bluegrass.
[1:11:43] >> Yeah.
[1:11:44] >> But then she plays this piece that
[1:11:46] everyone thought was horrible, right?
[1:11:49] And the bird's going crazy. She's never
[1:11:51] seen it react like that
[1:11:52] >> really.
[1:11:52] >> And then she does the research and other
[1:11:54] people have noticed the same thing. So
[1:11:56] what it means is Mozart got so into the
[1:11:59] bird, the starling that was his pet that
[1:12:02] he could think like a starling and he
[1:12:04] could compose music that could
[1:12:06] communicate to this bird. I just find
[1:12:09] that story fascinating for the sense of
[1:12:12] crossing the species barrier and being
[1:12:14] able to communicate to another species
[1:12:17] almost like Dr. Doolittle sort of thing.
[1:12:18] >> That's crazy. Did you Well, first off,
[1:12:21] whatever happened to the eagle, the man
[1:12:23] with the eagle? Did something happen
[1:12:24] with that story the end of that? Did he
[1:12:27] >> Well, he he'd been following the
[1:12:28] paragine for years and then he just he
[1:12:31] learns that he's got a rheumatoid
[1:12:33] arthritis and he's dying.
[1:12:36] So he wants to spend one last year
[1:12:39] following these birds and he goes to
[1:12:41] this part of England and he hones in on
[1:12:43] one bird that's that he's just loves to
[1:12:46] death and he's follows it everywhere and
[1:12:48] the bird avoids him because he's a human
[1:12:52] and they don't he can't eat a human so
[1:12:54] he's not interested. Slowly over the
[1:12:56] course of months it takes place over six
[1:12:58] months the bird will get a little bit
[1:13:00] closer and a little bit closer. At one
[1:13:02] point he has the feeling that the bird
[1:13:04] is going to attack him, but then it
[1:13:07] doesn't. Then at the very end of the
[1:13:10] story, the birds the the peragreen is
[1:13:14] going to migrate out of southern England
[1:13:16] because the season is different. So he's
[1:13:18] never going to see it again and he's
[1:13:20] going to be dying. So this is his last
[1:13:22] chance. He's despair. He He's desperate
[1:13:24] to see it one last time. He He doesn't
[1:13:27] He thinks it might be gone. He finds
[1:13:29] traces of other dead prey. So he knows
[1:13:32] it's still around. He sees the blood. He
[1:13:34] follows it and there it is overlooking
[1:13:36] the sea and he crawls closer to it and
[1:13:40] the bird moves away. He crawls closer
[1:13:43] and then finally he gets like as close
[1:13:45] as you and I are sitting and he goes,
[1:13:46] "Oh my god." And the bird goes to sleep
[1:13:49] which means that he's accepted him in a
[1:13:52] way and that's the end of the story.
[1:13:54] >> Oh, interesting.
[1:13:55] >> Yeah.
[1:13:55] >> Wow. I'm so excited for people to get
[1:13:57] your book, The Law of the Sublime.
[1:13:59] Obviously, you've had so many other mega
[1:14:02] hit books that have done millions of
[1:14:03] copies sold for many of them. Uh but I
[1:14:06] think this is going to be one that opens
[1:14:08] people back into their childlike sense
[1:14:10] of wonder.
[1:14:11] >> Yeah.
[1:14:12] >> Uh which I believe is the thing that we
[1:14:14] are lacking the most right now as a
[1:14:16] society. We're we're too focused on
[1:14:19] timelines and responsibilities and
[1:14:22] stress overwhelm and day-to-day things
[1:14:25] that we got to get done as opposed to
[1:14:28] taking moments
[1:14:29] >> Yeah.
[1:14:30] >> where we can really just be in awe and
[1:14:32] wonder.
[1:14:32] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:14:33] >> And so I really hope people get this
[1:14:35] book, The Law of the Sublime, and you
[1:14:37] you dive in and you allow yourself to
[1:14:40] feel awe and wonder in these different
[1:14:42] areas that you've talked about. you
[1:14:44] talked about some of them, cosmic,
[1:14:46] sublime, love, death, um, all these
[1:14:49] different things that you talk about in
[1:14:50] here
[1:14:51] >> that you cover in this book. Um, and I
[1:14:56] want people to follow you as well
[1:14:57] because you always have great content
[1:14:58] online.
[1:14:59] >> Yeah.
[1:14:59] >> Um, so they can follow you. What's the
[1:15:01] best place that people can follow you
[1:15:02] right now? Are you typically sharing the
[1:15:05] most online? Well, uh we have a an
[1:15:07] ancient website,
[1:15:10] uh [laughter]
[1:15:11] literally uh power, seduction, and war
[1:15:16] and spelled out.com.
[1:15:19] And there you'll find uh uh links to all
[1:15:22] my other books. This is my eighth book,
[1:15:25] um and to Instagram, Tik Tok, YouTube
[1:15:29] channel, and all that stuff. So, that's
[1:15:30] the best place to go.
[1:15:32] And I don't know when you're going to
[1:15:35] post this.
[1:15:36] >> I think it's coming out right around
[1:15:37] when this launches up. The week before
[1:15:39] >> you can pre-order the book, but it won't
[1:15:41] be.
[1:15:42] >> It'll be the week before. So, they can
[1:15:43] pre-order it or order whenever special
[1:15:45] goodies if you pre-order it.
[1:15:46] >> Where if they go to that website?
[1:15:48] >> Uh, yeah. Yeah,
[1:15:50] >> it'll be it'll be on that website.
[1:15:52] >> Yeah. Or you go to Amazon. Okay.
[1:15:53] >> Amazon. You can pre-order on Amazon as
[1:15:55] well.
[1:15:56] >> Cool. Or Barnes & Noble.
[1:15:57] >> Where can they go get the goodies? So,
[1:16:00] if you pre-order it and you send us the
[1:16:02] receipt, it's all on my website.
[1:16:05] >> Okay, cool.
[1:16:06] >> Um, was there anything you wanted to add
[1:16:10] or share that's been on your heart or
[1:16:11] mind? Um, before I get to the final
[1:16:14] couple questions
[1:16:15] >> about the book,
[1:16:16] >> about the book, about your life, about
[1:16:18] anything new, about anything else that
[1:16:20] we can be of service to you about that
[1:16:21] you want to share or that you want
[1:16:23] people to know about?
[1:16:24] >> No, I I I think you you've done an
[1:16:26] amazing job kind of covering things
[1:16:28] here. I think um I just want to leave
[1:16:31] people with the idea that um this book
[1:16:34] is designed
[1:16:36] to enter your bloodstream and all the
[1:16:39] people who have read it um have said
[1:16:42] that it they don't look at things the
[1:16:43] same way.
[1:16:44] >> Wow.
[1:16:45] >> You know, and they don't think about
[1:16:46] things the same way. So it's not like
[1:16:49] you have to suddenly quit your job and
[1:16:52] just go live in the desert and look up
[1:16:54] at the stars, but you can live your
[1:16:56] daily life, but you're you you see
[1:16:58] things differently. And to be the moment
[1:17:01] where you the feeling that you look at
[1:17:03] the world differently is something I
[1:17:06] can't even describe in words. It's
[1:17:07] extremely powerful. It's what happened
[1:17:09] to me
[1:17:10] >> in the first days after I nearly died.
[1:17:13] And I look at a world that just doesn't
[1:17:14] seem the same. So, I'm trying to somehow
[1:17:17] draw you into what I had experienced in
[1:17:19] those few moments.
[1:17:21] >> Let the law of the sublime enter your
[1:17:23] bloodstream. I like that. That's good.
[1:17:25] >> Um, I've asked you this before a number
[1:17:28] of times. This is your sixth time on
[1:17:29] this show. I'm curious if it's changed.
[1:17:31] It's called the three truths question.
[1:17:33] So, hypothetical scenario. You get to
[1:17:35] live as long as you want in this life,
[1:17:37] >> but far in the future, it's your last
[1:17:39] day. Uh, and you get to continue to
[1:17:42] create and make all the work you want to
[1:17:44] make and write more books if you want
[1:17:46] to, but for whatever reason on this last
[1:17:48] day, you have to take all of your
[1:17:50] content with you. Social media books
[1:17:52] gone from this existence. Hypothetical,
[1:17:56] but you get to leave behind three
[1:17:57] lessons to the world on the last day and
[1:17:59] this is all we would have of your
[1:18:01] content. What would those three lessons
[1:18:03] or three truths be for you? There's
[1:18:05] something larger than your individual
[1:18:07] self out there and you want to tune
[1:18:09] yourself to it. You are a social animal
[1:18:12] and by your ability
[1:18:15] to understand people and get inside
[1:18:18] their spirit, you will be happy,
[1:18:19] fulfilled and powerful.
[1:18:22] >> And finally, um life is very short and
[1:18:27] you you have to even though I was given
[1:18:29] 200 years to live, it's still very
[1:18:32] short. And so you have to have a sense
[1:18:34] of urgency in this world.
[1:18:37] >> You could die tomorrow any moment. Even
[1:18:39] though I was granted 200 years, you
[1:18:41] could die any moment. So you have to
[1:18:43] have a sense of urgency. You have to be
[1:18:44] aware
[1:18:45] >> of how short life is.
[1:18:47] >> Beautiful. I think they evolve every
[1:18:50] time I ask you that question. So you
[1:18:51] know, you know, it's good. No, I like
[1:18:53] it. I like it that it's like
[1:18:55] >> it's okay.
[1:18:55] >> It's great. Uh, Robert, again, I got one
[1:18:58] final question for you, but before I do,
[1:18:59] I want to thank you again for all that
[1:19:00] you do for me, for so many people in the
[1:19:02] world. You've been a a light with your
[1:19:05] books and the content you've created and
[1:19:07] all the interviews you've done for many
[1:19:08] years now. Before I interviewed you, I
[1:19:12] didn't see you doing a lot of interviews
[1:19:13] out in the world, but now with podcast,
[1:19:15] I see you doing a lot more, which is a
[1:19:17] great gift for so many of us. So, I want
[1:19:19] to thank you again for all you're doing,
[1:19:21] for being episode 2001,
[1:19:24] as well as number one as well. So, it's
[1:19:26] a cool milestone for us there.
[1:19:27] >> Okay.
[1:19:28] >> Um, and my final question is, what's
[1:19:30] your definition of greatness?
[1:19:33] >> My definition of greatness is knowing
[1:19:37] who you are to the core
[1:19:40] and realizing what that core would be,
[1:19:44] what what what is truly you, what is
[1:19:46] unique about you, the special weird
[1:19:48] power you have been born into. The seed
[1:19:51] that was planted in your birth, knowing
[1:19:53] it and bringing that seed to life is
[1:19:55] truly greatness.
[1:19:56] >> Robert Green, thank you for being here.
[1:19:58] >> Thank you so much for Lewis. I always
[1:20:00] love it.
[1:20:00] >> Amazing.
[1:20:03] >> 25 years Secret Service. Getting people
[1:20:05] to admit the worst things they've ever
[1:20:07] done. What would you say is the number
[1:20:09] one secret or communication tip to
[1:20:11] getting the truth out of anyone? It's
[1:20:13] not about asking [music] the right
[1:20:14] questions. It's creating the environment
[1:20:16] where the truth doesn't hurt. What's the
[1:20:18] offer we can give that other person so
[1:20:21] they [music] can save face?