Transcript
[0:01] This episode of the Oprah podcast is
[0:03] presented by our partner Geico. I do
[0:07] think this is your best work. I do think
[0:09] this is a reason you've come to the
[0:11] planet for this moment and to [music]
[0:13] try to bring us back to save our
[0:15] children.
[0:16] >> They are being abducted by the algorithm
[0:19] in front of our eyes.
[0:21] >> Whoa.
[0:22] A generation of young men withering in
[0:25] childhood bedrooms. No friendships,
[0:28] [music] no fire, no purpose. So how do
[0:32] parents begin to give their sons fire
[0:35] and purpose? We are forgetting [music]
[0:38] that the predatory man who grows up to
[0:41] harm us later was once a lost boy
[0:44] >> and a boy who was not initiated into
[0:47] adulthood. This is a wakeup call to
[0:49] parents to stop outsourcing their
[0:52] influence, their attachment and their
[0:53] attention.
[0:57] Hi to you from my front porch. Thank you
[0:59] for joining me on the Opert podcast. I'm
[1:01] here with world-renowned clinical
[1:03] psychologist, parenting expert, and New
[1:06] York Times bestselling author, Dr.
[1:08] Shafali. More than 15 years ago, she
[1:10] released her groundbreaking work, The
[1:12] Conscious Parent, one of the most
[1:14] profound books on parenting I've ever
[1:16] read. I give it to every new parent I
[1:18] know. And then came many more
[1:20] transformational bestsellers. But here's
[1:22] what I think is so genius about Dr.
[1:24] Shafali. She's counseling parents and
[1:27] paying attention to the evolving world
[1:28] we're living in. And she starts to
[1:30] notice that children and teens are
[1:34] really in trouble. How does she know
[1:36] that? Cuz she's talking to them and they
[1:38] are telling her. And parents feel like
[1:40] they're drowning. She knows this because
[1:43] that's what they're telling her. And
[1:45] maybe just hearing that hits you in a
[1:47] knowing place because you too feel like
[1:49] you're drowning. Her next realization is
[1:52] that our current culture is impacting
[1:55] boys differently than it's impacting
[1:57] girls. And it's getting harder, harder,
[2:01] not easier to raise children. And I can
[2:04] feel you all all nodding out there. And
[2:06] now she's written not one but two new
[2:08] books. Raising conscious sons,
[2:10] cultivating purpose, connection, and
[2:12] inner power in a chaotic world and
[2:15] raising conscious daughters, building
[2:17] confidence, courage, and inner power in
[2:19] an anxious world. There is so much to
[2:21] learn. So we're doing this in two parts.
[2:24] This episode is all about raising
[2:26] conscious sons. Welcome Dr. Shafali.
[2:29] Ofra, thank you. Thank you for being a
[2:32] steward. You know, I get emotional about
[2:34] this because without you, I could not
[2:37] have had the courage and the clarity
[2:40] >> and the fortitude and the perseverance
[2:42] to stick through because you always hold
[2:45] my hand and tell me to keep going
[2:46] because the resistance.
[2:48] The resistance.
[2:49] >> Yes. 15 years ago, the resistance to
[2:52] even the word conscious, what it means
[2:54] to be a conscious parent. Remember when
[2:55] we first talked about it, people were
[2:58] like resisting that and what does that
[2:59] mean? and you can't tell me how to
[3:01] parent my kids and these are my kids.
[3:04] >> And back then my singular focus was to
[3:08] help parents wake up to the teachers
[3:11] that their children are and to have the
[3:16] humility to not treat them like
[3:18] property.
[3:19] >> Yes.
[3:19] >> This was back then.
[3:21] >> That was 15 years ago. Yes.
[3:22] >> And it was uncomfortable back then. But
[3:25] today it has to be the clarion call. It
[3:30] has to be the most urgent wake up
[3:33] blueprint that we need because in
[3:35] today's world we have reached such a
[3:38] cultural inflection point where this
[3:41] wounded adult male ego
[3:45] obsessed with greed and domination has
[3:48] created a culture that is so misaligned
[3:52] to the spiritual, emotional,
[3:54] psychological needs of our children
[3:57] >> and the the abyss between what they need
[4:00] and what culture is providing has become
[4:03] this gaping chasm and we parents are
[4:07] lost in it because we want to do good by
[4:09] them. Every parent does.
[4:11] >> Real quickly for those who are not
[4:12] familiar with Dr. Shvali's work, I want
[4:16] you to first explain the concept of
[4:19] conscious parenting.
[4:21] I came, it came to me this this movement
[4:26] of conscious parenting as my rebellion
[4:29] against the traditional model that
[4:31] insists on sacrificing, exploiting,
[4:34] manipulating and using our children as
[4:36] cattle and property. And when I saw
[4:39] myself do it right, when I was a
[4:41] therapist coaching other parents, I was
[4:43] like, "Oh, this parent is just
[4:45] unconscious and that parent is
[4:46] unconscious." But Oprah, when I saw
[4:49] myself
[4:50] desire to dominate my daughter and I saw
[4:53] my own ego and I had the humility to see
[4:55] it because it takes courage to see the
[4:58] force of your own shadow.
[5:01] That's when I knew if I'm in trouble, if
[5:04] my ego is a pipeline that is just
[5:07] infusing my daughter with its
[5:09] unconscious garbage and I'm not
[5:12] interrupting this pipeline, how can any
[5:14] other parent? It it's basically
[5:17] understanding the principle that Khalil
[5:19] GR said when he said, "Your children
[5:20] come through you, but they're not of
[5:22] you.
[5:22] >> They do not belong to you.
[5:23] >> They do not belong to you." And that was
[5:25] a really hard thing for people to accept
[5:28] because everybody thinks this is my
[5:30] child. This is my property. I can do
[5:32] with my child whatever I want instead of
[5:35] this is another conscious being that I
[5:38] certainly have participated in bringing
[5:40] to the planet. But this conscious being
[5:43] is here to teach me as much as I am to
[5:46] guide and teach him or her.
[5:48] >> Yes. But
[5:49] >> that is the whole concept. Yes.
[5:50] >> Right. But if the parent hasn't been
[5:52] raised in their own sovereign self,
[5:54] >> right?
[5:55] >> Then we have to have compassion for the
[5:57] parent that there is no way that they
[5:59] can see another being as separate from
[6:02] them because they were used in their
[6:03] parents.
[6:04] >> And so you're just doing what was done.
[6:05] >> Doing what was done. I was used I will
[6:07] use. I I was exploited. I will exploit.
[6:10] And this is the mass disease of our
[6:12] world.
[6:12] >> I know. But most parents don't think
[6:14] that they're using or exploiting their
[6:15] kids. They think they're providing and
[6:17] protecting and giving and offering.
[6:20] Well, so in the beginning of raising
[6:22] conscious sons, you write a wakeup call
[6:25] letter to parents. You say, "We are amid
[6:29] a parental and cultural emergency." See
[6:32] if this resonates with you all who are
[6:33] parents. a crisis
[6:36] where our sons are losing the essential
[6:38] ingredients of what make a healthy
[6:41] boyhood. Wildness,
[6:43] movement, tribe, adventure,
[6:48] risk, connection, and sovereignty to
[6:50] name a few. This erosion is what I call
[6:52] the lost blueprint of boyhood. Tell us
[6:55] more,
[6:57] >> Oprah. I interviewed over 50 boys and
[6:59] young men for this book and young girls
[7:02] and young women. And I have so many male
[7:05] clients who speak of their confusion,
[7:09] their wanting to be a steward for women
[7:12] and children but not knowing how in a
[7:15] world that keeps pressuring them, keeps
[7:17] shaming them and keeps diminishing who
[7:20] they are. And I know we women have been
[7:22] so subjugated that we've been on this
[7:24] rampage and on this war cry and we
[7:26] should.
[7:27] >> But we are forgetting that the predatory
[7:31] man who grows up to harm us later was
[7:34] once a lost boy.
[7:36] >> And a boy who was not stewarded, who was
[7:39] not shepherded, who was not initiated
[7:42] into adulthood. And if we don't take
[7:44] care of that lost boy, how can we take
[7:48] care of the predatory man who he grows
[7:50] up to be? So if we want to
[7:52] >> because by the time they grow up to be
[7:53] the predatory men there, there there's
[7:55] nothing we can do
[7:56] >> because they've been so severed from
[7:58] their own sense of self and and we
[8:01] parents may not be able to outpace the
[8:04] algorithm. We cannot change systems in
[8:07] the world, global systems, but we have
[8:09] power in our home. And we have to
[8:11] reclaim boyhood, which means boys have a
[8:15] different way of processing feelings.
[8:17] People think that, oh, boys, they don't
[8:19] feel that much. They feel as much as
[8:21] girls. Their pathway of expression is
[8:24] different. They feel through the body,
[8:26] through their movement. Then come the
[8:29] words.
[8:29] >> I learned so much because parents are
[8:31] always saying, "Use your words. Use your
[8:33] words." Boys don't know how to do that
[8:36] because that's not how boys communicate,
[8:39] right? I never knew that.
[8:40] >> And they're not ready yet because their
[8:42] prefrontal cortex, which allows that
[8:44] kind of articulation processing, turns
[8:47] online much later than girls. So telling
[8:50] a young seven-year-old who's tantruming
[8:52] and got so much fire and energy and
[8:54] intensity, which scares the mother, what
[8:56] does he do? No one is helping him
[8:58] contain these fires. And the mother is
[9:00] saying, "Use your words." Or, "You're a
[9:02] bad child." or you're an ADHD boy and
[9:04] they're punishing them at schools and
[9:06] they're making them sit like girls. That
[9:08] is not the pathway, the
[9:10] neurodedevelopmental pathway that a boy
[9:12] needs. So the environment is failing our
[9:14] boys. Wildness is being medicated.
[9:17] They've been told to sit still and
[9:19] restrain their fire instead of us
[9:22] allowing that fire to be contained and
[9:24] allowing it to be intense. And one of
[9:26] the things you go on to write is that a
[9:29] generation of young men withering in
[9:31] childhood bedrooms, no friendships, no
[9:35] fire, no purpose. Are we describing your
[9:38] son? No purpose. Statistically, these
[9:42] boys are the most isolated demographic
[9:44] and the most likely to take their own
[9:47] lives. So, how do parents begin to give
[9:50] their sons fire and purpose? First of
[9:52] all, you got to get the book if you have
[9:56] a son because I know so many of you are
[9:59] frustrated and feel like you're drowning
[10:01] because you don't know that boys and
[10:03] girls are really really really
[10:06] biologically, hormonally,
[10:09] >> developmentally
[10:10] on a different trajectory
[10:11] >> on a Yeah. They actually think
[10:13] differently.
[10:13] >> They think differently and we have to
[10:15] nuance our parental interventions and
[10:18] cultural interventions and we're not
[10:20] right. And if we think women and girls
[10:23] have been given a hard ride because of
[10:26] the patriarchy, let me tell you, the
[10:28] patriarchy is very intentional in making
[10:31] sure it controls its men and its boys as
[10:34] well. And the latest tech revolution is
[10:37] so precisely engineered to force boys
[10:41] >> to sit in front of a screen because it's
[10:43] giving them the adrenaline, the dopamine
[10:45] hit that real life isn't. Yeah.
[10:48] >> So, they're getting their adventure,
[10:49] they're getting their achievement,
[10:51] they're getting status online.
[10:54] >> Yeah. What you say is what was a fight
[10:56] for our children's attention has now
[10:58] moved into a fight for their attachment.
[11:02] Attachment. AI companions know exactly
[11:05] how to speak to our children's
[11:06] loneliness, how to mimic perfect
[11:09] attunement, how to slip into the
[11:11] exclusive spaces where only parents once
[11:14] had access. And the predator, this is
[11:16] the thing, the predator, Dr. Shiovali
[11:20] says, has moved from the periphery
[11:24] to their heart. And if we do not step up
[11:27] with the presence and connection, our
[11:29] boys may drift into its arms before we
[11:31] even notice they've been abducted.
[11:34] >> And whoa, that is some powerful stuff
[11:38] right there.
[11:39] >> They are being abducted by the algorithm
[11:42] in front of our eyes. and we are
[11:45] helpless. We don't know how to reclaim
[11:46] them. But there is a pathway back and
[11:49] these books are the alarm and the
[11:51] invitation to bring them back to us.
[11:53] >> Yeah. This is what I like about the
[11:55] raising conscious sons and raising
[11:57] conscious daughters is you're not just
[11:58] stating the problem, but you're giving
[12:00] us a path to get there. Yes.
[12:02] >> And this now will be the gift I give to
[12:04] everybody who has a boy or or girl. our
[12:07] listeners [music] tell us that the
[12:09] podcast is resonating with you and is
[12:11] serving as a bright spot [music] in your
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[12:44] Those of you who watch the Oprah podcast
[12:46] or listen to us, you know, every story
[12:48] we share, every guest we welcome is
[12:51] chosen with purpose. And when people
[12:52] share their stories, we're reminded that
[12:55] we're not alone in this journey called
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[13:01] understand that the way we move through
[13:03] life and who we move through it with
[13:06] matters. And I know that life starts to
[13:08] move even faster as a new school year
[13:10] begins. Fall routines get underway, the
[13:13] calendar fills up. Whether you're
[13:14] waiting in the school pickup [music]
[13:15] line, loading up the car for a weekend
[13:18] getaway, taking a quiet drive home after
[13:20] a hard day, or cheering on your son or
[13:22] daughter from the sidelines, these
[13:24] moments remind us the road is not always
[13:27] a straight line. Geico is there with
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[13:32] you covered along the way. Because life
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[13:37] all just keep driving forward and that
[13:39] [music] dear listener is everything.
[13:44] So you say this is a thing that struck
[13:47] me so many times. I mean I've been
[13:50] reading you and promoting you and
[13:52] singing your praises for years. I do
[13:54] think this is your best work. I do think
[13:57] this is the reason you've come to the
[13:58] planet for this moment to alert the
[14:02] world to what is happening and to try to
[14:04] bring us back to save our children. And
[14:07] you say that we are going to lose a
[14:09] shared reality. What does that mean? And
[14:12] what happens when we do?
[14:14] >> You know, we used to wait at the bus
[14:15] stop, right? We used to wait to go to
[14:17] the movies. We used to collide with each
[14:20] other. We used to have all sorts of
[14:22] diversity. We were forced to confront
[14:24] humans. And now as we're becoming more
[14:26] privileged, more advanced, more
[14:29] progressive, we are actually moving away
[14:31] from a shared reality and the algorithm,
[14:35] you know, manipulates that. So they
[14:37] provide you with what you like, your
[14:39] interests. So actually it's creating
[14:40] these mini cultike environments online
[14:44] where you are not facing diversity, but
[14:47] you're getting more siloed into your own
[14:49] little bubble. So two siblings growing
[14:51] up in the same house could be having a
[14:54] different interpretation of the world
[14:55] and different world news, different
[14:57] world realities than the next one. And
[15:00] when that happens, our ability to
[15:02] connect breaks down. And that's what
[15:04] they capitalize on because the more
[15:06] lonely and disconnected and paranoid we
[15:08] are of each other, the easier we are to
[15:11] manipulate because fear profits.
[15:13] >> Yes. And this is the thing that I want
[15:14] you all to remember who are listening to
[15:15] this, that it started out that they were
[15:18] trying to get your kids' attention, but
[15:20] now they're going for their attachment.
[15:23] And that is why so many parents are
[15:26] suffering with their kids who are
[15:28] attached to their devices.
[15:30] >> Yes. Literally addicted to them.
[15:32] >> And the answer to that digital abduction
[15:35] is relational connection. And that's
[15:38] where the parent has supreme and
[15:40] sovereign power. If they are in their
[15:42] own body, if they are willing to step
[15:45] into consciousness and take their
[15:46] children away from the computer codes
[15:48] and the algorithm, parents need to step
[15:51] back. This is a wakeup call to parents
[15:53] to stop outsourcing their influence,
[15:56] their attachment, and their attention.
[15:58] That's what we need to
[15:59] >> because so many parents have used it as
[16:00] a babysitter, as a as a as a way of
[16:02] relieving themselves.
[16:03] >> It's numbing. It's numbing for us,
[16:05] right? And it's entertaining. It's very
[16:07] specifically designed to create the
[16:10] dopamine hunger that we're looking for.
[16:12] So now ordinary conversations or
[16:14] listening to the birds or just feeling
[16:16] the breeze feels too insignificant for
[16:20] us.
[16:20] >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Because the
[16:21] brain needs more more and more more dop
[16:23] dopamine.
[16:24] >> We have parents of sons joining us and
[16:26] Nicole is zooming in from New York. Hi
[16:27] Nicole. Hi.
[16:29] >> Hi there. It's so wonderful to be with
[16:32] the two of you.
[16:34] >> Um Dr. Shafali, thank you for being such
[16:37] a resource for us as parents when we
[16:39] sometimes feel very lost. And of course,
[16:42] Oprah, thank you so much for bringing
[16:44] Dr. Shafali to us uh many years ago. Um
[16:49] I wanted to share a little bit about u
[16:51] my situation. I have two sons uh 11 and
[16:54] eight. My older son um has been
[16:57] diagnosed with ADHD and he's neurode
[17:00] divergent. and my younger one is also
[17:03] displaying some of this a similar uh
[17:06] profile. So he potentially has that same
[17:08] pathway.
[17:09] >> Explain to us what neurode divergent
[17:11] means.
[17:12] >> Sure. Um the way they process
[17:15] information, sensory processing,
[17:18] self-regulation challenges, executive
[17:20] function differences.
[17:23] So ADHD generally falls under that
[17:26] category. I love Dr. Shafali's writings
[17:29] and I really try to employ so many of
[17:32] the principles of conscious parenting to
[17:36] to raising my two sons, but it can be
[17:38] really challenging when they are
[17:40] overloaded and they're they're receiving
[17:43] a wave of emotions and so it quickly
[17:46] escalates into big body behaviors
[17:50] whether it's scratching or kicking or
[17:52] punching or throwing something across
[17:54] the room. And in that moment, it is a
[17:57] self-awareness moment for me to
[18:00] self-regulate, to hold space, but also
[18:04] um keeping myself safe and not shame
[18:08] trigger them in the moment or try to
[18:10] control them in the moment. So, how do I
[18:13] use conscious parenting and um you know,
[18:16] really consider what that looks like
[18:19] when dealing with children uh with ADHD
[18:22] or neurode divergence.
[18:24] >> Yeah. So, I have a lot to say. So, just
[18:26] really quickly, when I hear labels like
[18:28] that, I'm always skeptical. Yeah.
[18:30] Because the environment is so toxic for
[18:33] what boys truly need, right? They need
[18:36] intentional daily intense movement. They
[18:40] need to express that fire. But they sit
[18:43] in a circle for circle time in in books
[18:47] uh learning about languages and and
[18:49] countries that they will never touch or
[18:51] need. And they then come back home to
[18:53] you, a volcano, a rocket ship ready to
[18:56] launch. And now poor mom is at home
[18:59] >> and nobody's and nobody's playing
[19:01] outside anymore.
[19:02] >> Nobody's playing outside. They've not
[19:03] done any activity. They they they have
[19:05] all this energy and they they've been
[19:07] they've been told to suppress it all day
[19:09] long. So you get a rocket ship when they
[19:11] come home. And mom is tired. She's at
[19:14] work. She has a career. She's going to
[19:16] the gym. She's exhausted. Dad is
[19:18] probably the same. There's no tribe.
[19:20] There's no community to buttress, to
[19:23] buffer, to absorb these boys wild
[19:26] energy. So, we label them, medicate
[19:29] them, and then get scared of them. So,
[19:31] the first thing I'll tell you is we have
[19:32] to have compassion for what's happening
[19:34] to your boy before he even comes home
[19:36] from school because it's a travesty
[19:38] what's happening to our boys. The
[19:39] education system is suppressing and
[19:42] suffusing their spirit. And then we
[19:44] wonder why they're acting like
[19:45] >> because one of the things that you
[19:46] emphasize over and over is that boys
[19:48] need movement. Yes. And that if a boy is
[19:50] allowed to have enough movement that he
[19:52] will regulate, he will regulate. He will
[19:54] regulate. It is his language.
[19:56] >> Yes. And all of that movement feels like
[19:59] wildness and too much particularly for a
[20:02] lot of mothers
[20:02] >> and a and a lot of female teachers, a
[20:04] lot of women because we're not wired
[20:06] exactly the same way, right? So we are
[20:08] okay with sitting calm and we use our
[20:10] words. So that wildness feels very
[20:13] threatening for us. The next thing I
[20:16] will tell you is let's not mistake
[20:18] intensity for danger. But we do because
[20:22] we are not used to that wild energy. And
[20:25] the third thing I'll say to you as a
[20:27] mother, be aware of your triggers
[20:29] because this wild energy reminds us of
[20:33] all the betrayals we've experienced at
[20:37] the hands of adult male wild energy. But
[20:41] boy wild energy is different. It is
[20:44] genuinely their inability to regulate,
[20:47] right? And then that gets mutated and
[20:49] perverted in the adult male. But we
[20:52] women have been so sacrificed to that
[20:55] adult male energy that we associate it
[20:58] and then when we see our young boys, we
[21:00] project, oh, he must be bad. He's going
[21:02] to be dangerous. He's evil. And we judge
[21:05] and shame them without our realizing. Do
[21:08] we celebrate it? Do we say this energy
[21:11] is your fire and fuel that can become
[21:13] your achievement, can become your
[21:15] protection, can become your your
[21:17] generative.
[21:18] >> It's so interesting because I remember
[21:20] when when I was reading your book uh you
[21:22] know raising conscious sons I remember
[21:25] my godson Will Gail's son when he was
[21:27] like two or three years old and I said
[21:29] to Gail what these boy boy he's so
[21:31] different than Kirby cuz he would come
[21:33] into the room moving.
[21:35] >> Yes. and saying things like vroom vroom
[21:38] and I was thinking he's always making
[21:40] noise. He's always into something. He's
[21:43] always
[21:43] >> that is so beautiful about our masculine
[21:46] boys and men. They're embodied. They
[21:49] have to feel it through the body,
[21:50] through sound, through touch, through
[21:52] physicality. But we
[21:54] >> And so the huge mistake some parents
[21:56] make is that they believe that boys
[21:59] they're expecting the boys to behave
[22:01] like their sisters
[22:02] >> or like us like like the women, right?
[22:03] like and they think that is good. So
[22:06] from a young age a boy is shamed and
[22:08] suppressed. We have to understand this.
[22:10] So by the time he hits pre puberty and
[22:12] puberty where testosterone
[22:15] goes through the roof 50 times goes
[22:18] right now we want to really sway. Yeah.
[22:21] We want to stuff them into a box and so
[22:23] that we are in a collision course with
[22:25] their development and they feel it and
[22:28] they don't know what to do with their
[22:29] energy. So what I need to tell you is
[22:31] that you keep yourself safe. You can say
[22:34] you can create a conscious boundary. I
[22:36] cannot let you hit me. I need to leave
[22:38] the room and I will be back. But I'm
[22:40] right here. This energy that you have, I
[22:43] love it. Let's let's do something with
[22:45] it. Let's throw all the pillows. Let's
[22:47] run outside. Let's race. And I tell
[22:50] parents, anytime you are in a battle
[22:52] with your boy, it means they are
[22:54] disregulated because they haven't moved
[22:56] enough. Just take it as a formula.
[22:58] Instead of telling them to brush their
[23:00] teeth, make them do 10 jumping jacks, go
[23:03] through an obstacle course, find the
[23:05] toothpaste, find the toothbrush, and
[23:07] race with you. And then they will do it.
[23:09] If you don't channel that fire, it will
[23:12] mutate. It'll become apathy,
[23:14] listlessness, and perverted anger.
[23:17] >> Wow.
[23:19] >> Wow.
[23:20] >> So, your role is to channel. Think of
[23:22] yourself as a channeler. How do I direct
[23:25] this? You you are the walls of the
[23:27] tunnel, but that wind must have a place
[23:29] to go. Right. You want that energy to be
[23:32] directed, not turned inward. Nicole,
[23:36] you're going to see yourself over and
[23:37] over and over in this book. You're going
[23:39] to so appreciate this book. This is
[23:41] going to help you uh be a better mother
[23:44] and your sons really evolve into the
[23:47] young men that you want and they want
[23:50] for themselves. Raising conscious sons.
[23:52] I I I I can't say enough about it. Thank
[23:54] you for your question. Thank you for
[23:56] your question. But I could see you I
[23:57] could see this resonating with you just
[23:59] from hearing this.
[24:00] >> Absolutely. I mean it gives such hope.
[24:02] Absolutely.
[24:03] >> You are going to be ahaing all through
[24:06] this book. Thank you so much.
[24:07] >> You know Oprah writing these books is
[24:10] really my ode and homage to the men in
[24:13] the world who have been sidelined under
[24:16] the guise of toxic patriarchy. Most men
[24:19] have gotten a bad rap because all men
[24:21] are not toxic. They want to do good but
[24:24] no one has shown them the path for that
[24:26] conscious masculinity. And that's why I
[24:28] talk about the seven pillars. I lay it
[24:29] out so clearly. If we as parents can
[24:32] nurture these seven pillars uh like
[24:35] regulation, competence, vulnerability,
[24:38] sovereignty, sexual power, belonging, we
[24:41] they will be able to integrate a
[24:43] masculinity that will make us proud.
[24:46] That brings me to to to this that you
[24:48] write on page 248 that I actually teared
[24:50] up when reading it because um I have a a
[24:53] friend Bob Green and Bob and Urana have
[24:55] a beautiful beautiful boy Kaden whom
[24:58] they've done exactly this I mean exactly
[25:02] mentored their son in such a powerful
[25:04] way. You say when a father mentors his
[25:06] son he offers more than advice. He
[25:10] offers belief and that belief becomes
[25:13] scaffolding inside the boy's nervous
[25:15] system. It steadies him. It organizes
[25:19] him. It gives him a place to stand. So
[25:21] what do sons want most from their
[25:23] fathers?
[25:24] >> Well, let's talk about fathers and the
[25:26] wounded masculine in our fathers.
[25:28] >> Yes. Yes. Yes.
[25:29] >> Because fathers can get a bad rap, but
[25:31] they are wounded. They are lost. They
[25:34] were never mentored. They were they were
[25:36] looked at by their mothers with fear,
[25:39] suspicion, paranoia, and they were
[25:42] suppressed. They have been suppressed
[25:43] all their lives. Men are not supposed to
[25:45] be in suits and boots. They're supposed
[25:47] to be out in the wild chasing boar and
[25:49] lion and getting exhausted at the end of
[25:51] the day and then sitting around a
[25:52] fireplace with their brothers. Men are
[25:55] supposed to move in packs. This
[25:56] competition that the patriarchy has
[25:58] created has robbed our fathers of their
[26:02] own belonging to themselves. So now you
[26:04] give them a son to raise typically two
[26:07] things happen. One is that they see
[26:10] their own shameful shamed self in the
[26:13] sun. So if the son happens to be in
[26:15] touch with their vulnerability, their
[26:17] tears, their their side that is in touch
[26:20] with feeling.
[26:21] >> Yeah.
[26:22] >> That was shamed in the in the father. He
[26:25] will shut it down because he hasn't
[26:27] owned it and integrated and celebrated
[26:29] it within himself. It's in his shadow.
[26:31] The next thing that happens that I've
[26:33] seen a lot is that fathers because they
[26:35] themselves are holding on in this tough
[26:38] patriarchy which tells them to be tough
[26:40] and compartmentalized and succeed at all
[26:42] costs. They cannot pass the baton to
[26:45] their sons and sons are longing for
[26:48] their fathers to look at them and say I
[26:50] see you my son. This should happen by
[26:52] the age of 14 15 I see you. You are
[26:55] ready now to enter manhood and I'm here
[26:57] to have that conversation. I'm here to
[26:59] have this right of passage.
[27:01] >> And that I see you shows up in
[27:02] everything that happens. It's not a big
[27:04] conversation,
[27:05] >> but for a son to have his father say, I
[27:09] see you, my son, and you are now going
[27:11] to be greater than I could ever be. And
[27:13] here I want to now walk in your shadow.
[27:16] >> You actually talk about the fact that
[27:18] it's not telling the sun how to do
[27:21] something. It's doing the thing with the
[27:23] sun and seeing the sun do it. Even if
[27:25] the son makes a mistake, being able to
[27:27] say, you know, I made mistakes like
[27:28] that, too. Because what the son is
[27:30] looking for is validation from his
[27:32] father.
[27:32] >> And it has to be embodied presence. When
[27:34] you think boy, you think embodiment in
[27:37] the body. That's how they speak. That's
[27:39] how they learn. Shouldertosh shoulder
[27:41] doing with together. And that's the
[27:44] belonging they're looking for. So if you
[27:46] want to immunize your son against the
[27:48] predatorial manosphere and the toxic
[27:50] patriarchy, the father needs to see
[27:54] their lost self in the sun and nurture
[27:56] that son that they never could for
[27:58] themselves.
[27:59] >> Hello dear listener. Head over to the
[28:01] Oprah podcast [music] Instagram to check
[28:03] out the takeaway presented by Geico.
[28:06] I'm really happy to tell you about my
[28:09] latest conversation [music] with
[28:10] >> It's that quiet time I take after an
[28:12] interview where I can reflect on what
[28:14] sparked and what stuck with me. I love
[28:16] to share those takeaways with y'all.
[28:19] Unbelievable. And Geico [music] is proud
[28:21] to support these moments and the
[28:23] journeys they inspire with insurance
[28:24] designed to keep you covered and make
[28:26] [music] life's road a little more
[28:28] manageable. So go to the Oprah podcast
[28:30] Instagram where you can [music] check it
[28:33] out.
[28:36] And you believe this about mothers. A
[28:38] mother's greatest gift to her son is not
[28:41] protection from struggle, but an undying
[28:44] belief in his capacity to face it
[28:48] without falling apart. I just thought,
[28:50] wow. And when that faith in his inner
[28:53] resourcefulness is embodied, a boy
[28:55] begins to trust his own footing. And
[28:58] from that trust, power can finally grow.
[29:01] So what should mothers be doing for
[29:03] their boys? So just like you know in
[29:05] conscious parenting one of the
[29:06] foundational principles is that you will
[29:08] project onto your child you will make
[29:10] them a mini me. So now think about this
[29:13] if mostly women are raising sons without
[29:16] brotherhood without adult male
[29:18] mentorship without community of the
[29:20] elderly males
[29:22] >> she is going to which boys need she is
[29:25] going to try to raise him in her like
[29:28] likelihood in her in her image whether
[29:31] she does this consciously or not. So,
[29:33] she's going to say, "Shh, use your words
[29:35] or be nice, be soft, be like me." And
[29:38] he's looking at her going, "Who on you
[29:40] are an alien to me. You You're not
[29:42] speaking my language." And this is where
[29:46] misogyny starts, right? He begins to
[29:48] resent her. He goes, "She doesn't get
[29:49] me. She doesn't understand me." And then
[29:52] because she is protective by nature and
[29:54] she's caring, she doesn't realize that
[29:57] fire doesn't need her hovering, her
[30:00] overp protection, and her fear. Fire
[30:02] needs channel. It needs direction. It
[30:04] needs the physical presence that says,
[30:06] "I see you and I'm not afraid of you."
[30:08] Yeah. Yeah.
[30:09] >> But the woman is afraid of the sun.
[30:11] >> Yeah. I just love this. Her son is not
[30:13] is she doesn't protect him from
[30:15] struggle, but an undying belief in his
[30:17] capacity to face it without falling
[30:18] apart.
[30:19] >> But she doesn't trust him.
[30:20] >> Sons need to know you believe in me and
[30:23] you see me
[30:24] >> and you're not afraid of me. Afraid of
[30:27] that fire energy. So we suppress it.
[30:29] Then it has nowhere to go. Then it
[30:31] really mutates and she's like, "You see,
[30:33] I knew you were dangerous like the other
[30:35] men in my life." She's on a mission
[30:37] subconsciously not to make him
[30:39] >> like the other men in her life. Yes.
[30:42] >> So, anytime she sees intensity, she
[30:44] associates it with danger. This is the
[30:47] split, but intensity is his language.
[30:49] >> That's because we don't understand the
[30:50] language of the boys.
[30:52] >> Yeah.
[30:54] >> Sandra is a mother of a 19-year-old son
[30:55] in college. Sandra, I know you're
[30:57] finding this interesting joining us from
[30:59] California. Isn't this fascinating?
[31:02] >> Very much so. Thank you both for having
[31:05] me here and having me as part of this
[31:07] conversation. So Oprah, as you
[31:08] mentioned, I have a 19-year-old son
[31:11] who's in college uh and his sister who's
[31:13] 21 is also in college and I find it
[31:16] difficult to not hover. So Dr. Shapali,
[31:19] as you mentioned, that that is hard. Uh
[31:21] as an HR professional, that's my role to
[31:24] guide people and so it's hard to pull
[31:27] back. It's a little easier with my
[31:29] daughter because she is uh getting that
[31:32] positive reinforcement from media, the
[31:34] girl power movement, but my son is not
[31:37] getting that same level of media uh
[31:41] support, especially as a boy of color.
[31:44] So, how do I support him and show him
[31:47] that he belongs and is valued?
[31:50] >> What a great loaded question. So, it's
[31:52] layered. So, let me just piece apart the
[31:54] layers. first for our boys of color,
[31:57] especially our black boys. I know how
[32:00] you as a mother must feel every time he
[32:03] steps out into the cesspool of racism
[32:06] and toxicity. So I understand why you're
[32:10] different with him than you are with
[32:11] your girl, right? Because there's a real
[32:14] true
[32:15] >> and we need to speak about it. Danger
[32:17] >> danger. So,
[32:20] we need to also remember that our black
[32:22] boys and our boys of color are not only
[32:25] carrying generational trauma in their
[32:27] bones. They are also carrying
[32:29] generational resilience and generational
[32:32] brilliance. Right? You are not here
[32:36] simply because you you just decided to
[32:38] exist. It has been born and bred out of
[32:41] generations of brilliance. And I think
[32:43] boys of color need to be reminded that
[32:46] reminded of that, right? Not just the
[32:47] trauma but also the brilliance and the
[32:50] resilience that he stands on. And then I
[32:52] would say to you that you are trying to
[32:55] so protect him from falling apart from
[32:59] dissolving under the toxic toxic gaze
[33:02] and the toxicity of culture. You're so
[33:04] protecting him. But in that you are not
[33:07] giving him sovereignty. You are actually
[33:09] communicating distrust. The world
[33:12] already all the world already looks at
[33:14] him with distrust. The world is already
[33:16] telling him, "I don't know whether
[33:18] you're going to be good enough." The
[33:19] world is already telling him every
[33:20] mistake is fatal, but so are you. Right?
[33:24] You're telling him, "Don't make a
[33:25] mistake." You're trying to contour his
[33:27] resume, but in doing that, you're
[33:29] clipping his wings. And I understand
[33:31] where it's coming from, but you
[33:32] inadvertently are becoming a microcosm
[33:35] of the same culture that doesn't believe
[33:37] in him. So he needs his mother to tell
[33:40] him, "You, my black son, stand on
[33:44] generations of brilliance. I know who
[33:47] you are because of what you have
[33:48] withtood, because of our ancestors. I
[33:51] don't look at you as someone weak. I
[33:53] look at you as someone who can teach me
[33:55] and the world what strength is. So you
[33:59] make any mistake you need to while you
[34:01] discover yourself. Don't let culture
[34:02] tell you that your mistakes are fatal
[34:04] and deterministic of your character.
[34:07] There is no morality to making mistakes.
[34:09] This is something that you need to do as
[34:12] you discover who you are. So if if he
[34:14] knows that in your gaze he is whole, he
[34:19] is you know has impunity
[34:22] he can discover with his fire and fall
[34:26] down and there is no course chartered
[34:29] for him because it is unchartered. Then
[34:31] you will give him the confidence.
[34:33] Confidence comes from competence, but
[34:35] competence comes from struggle. And
[34:37] you're trying to take away his struggle.
[34:39] >> Does this resonate with you?
[34:40] >> Thank you so much, Dr. This is
[34:42] absolutely resonating with me. Thank you
[34:45] so much because you're right. I got to
[34:47] the pullback. Thank you.
[34:49] >> Thank you. All right. You're going to
[34:50] love this book. You're going to love
[34:52] this book, Raising Conscious Sons. And I
[34:54] know that's what you've always wanted to
[34:56] do and have done because your boy is
[34:58] raised at 19. He's already been raised.
[35:01] So, I I I I I applaud you for asking the
[35:05] question and for actually wanting to do
[35:07] better. So, thank you so much, Sandra.
[35:09] Thank you so much.
[35:10] >> Thank you. Thank you both.
[35:11] >> Jen is a mom of two boys joining us from
[35:14] Iowa. What's going on in Iowa in your
[35:18] home? Hi,
[35:19] >> Oprah.
[35:20] >> Hi, Jen.
[35:21] >> Hi, Oprah. Hi, Dr. Folly. Thank you for
[35:23] having me here today. I appreciate the
[35:25] opportunity to be a part of this
[35:26] conversation on on an increasingly
[35:28] important topic and one that is top of
[35:30] mind for me on a daily basis. As a mom
[35:32] of two sons, like you said, 11 and 10
[35:34] years old, uh we are very busy and
[35:36] active in our household. And while the
[35:39] the boys have very similar interests at
[35:41] this stage, they have vastly different
[35:43] personalities. Uh they have very
[35:45] different confidence levels and they
[35:47] express their emotions in very different
[35:49] ways. So my question for you, Dr.
[35:51] Shafali is given that many boys are
[35:53] taught early that strong emotions like
[35:56] fear and sadness and vulnerability are
[35:58] weaknesses. How do I raise my boys to
[36:01] acknowledge and maybe even embrace those
[36:04] strong feelings and express them
[36:06] authentically while navigating the
[36:08] societal pressures to the contrary.
[36:10] >> Yeah. So, you know, we all know the
[36:13] adage that boys are told don't be like
[36:15] girls, don't cry like a girl. And so
[36:17] they've associated true real heart-based
[36:22] genuine feelings with something
[36:24] negative, right? They've been so shamed
[36:26] for their vulnerability. And what I
[36:29] write in the book, and it's one of my
[36:30] pillars called vulnerability, that if we
[36:34] do not allow ourselves, and this is for
[36:36] every human, but more so with boys
[36:37] because they're shamed so much for
[36:39] vulnerability. If we don't allow
[36:40] ourselves to embrace our limitations and
[36:44] to realize that nobody is without
[36:46] limitations and I'm allowed to have
[36:48] limitations, we will forever be
[36:52] predatorial. What that means is that
[36:54] because we don't accept our weakness,
[36:56] because we don't accept our jagged edges
[37:00] and our holes and we're trying to cover
[37:03] it up with bravado,
[37:05] right? We bully ourselves out of our own
[37:08] weaknesses. We we we stampede ourselves.
[37:11] Don't have a weakness. Don't cry. Don't
[37:13] feel. That's what creates the bully,
[37:16] right? Because we're bullying ourselves.
[37:18] We're so busy bullying ourselves. Of
[37:20] course, we will bully the other. We so
[37:22] objectify ourselves. Boys take all those
[37:24] feelings that culture has called being
[37:27] like a girl, being soft, being like a
[37:29] wimp, and taken all those feelings and
[37:32] he has bullied himself out of feeling.
[37:35] He has so objectified himself and we
[37:37] don't think of boys as objectifying
[37:39] themselves. We think of girls as
[37:40] objectifying but boys are objectified
[37:42] out of that. So they treat their
[37:44] feelings as something they can just
[37:45] shove away as if it was an object.
[37:48] >> And in doing that they see other
[37:50] people's feelings especially the weak,
[37:52] the helpless, the lost, the poor as
[37:55] weak, the part in them that they've
[37:57] shoved away. And so they bully those as
[38:00] well. Who they can bully they will bully
[38:01] because they've bullied themselves out
[38:03] of feeling. So vulnerability, allowing
[38:06] your children to be vulnerable is
[38:08] allowing them to feel. And if you keep a
[38:10] boy close to his heart,
[38:12] >> he will grow up to be the protector our
[38:15] women and children need.
[38:17] >> That makes sense, right, Jen?
[38:18] >> Thank you.
[38:19] >> Thank you.
[38:19] >> Absolutely. Yes. I'm so excited to read
[38:22] this book. It just like everyone else,
[38:24] it resonates so much.
[38:25] >> Yeah, it's going to resonate. Lots of
[38:27] ahas in there. Thank you, Jen, for
[38:29] talking to us.
[38:30] >> Thank you. uh you believe it's it's
[38:32] vital to raise as we talking boys with
[38:35] empathy and how do we do that?
[38:38] >> Well, it comes from keeping their
[38:40] gateway to their real life emotions
[38:43] alive, unshamed and unsuppressed. When
[38:48] we are empathic with ourselves, we will
[38:50] have empathy for others. So the
[38:52] mutations we see out in the world that
[38:54] we call toxic masculinity are men who
[38:57] have been also sacrificed by their
[39:00] parents and taught to not have empathy.
[39:04] So they did not just become those toxic
[39:07] men. They were raised, they were
[39:08] trained, they learned. And this is why I
[39:11] speak to parents because if we want to
[39:14] interrupt that pipeline from lost boy to
[39:16] predatory men, we need to teach empathy.
[39:19] And they don't even need to learn
[39:21] empathy. The way to teach empathy is
[39:22] keep them in their feelings. Allow them
[39:24] to have their feelings. Don't raise them
[39:26] to be happy. Don't raise them to be
[39:28] successful. Don't raise them to be
[39:30] strong. Allow them to experience their
[39:33] real life emotions.
[39:34] >> You talked to boys and girls and their
[39:36] parents all the time. And you said you
[39:39] interviewed over 50 boys for this book.
[39:41] What do they tell you they want? What
[39:43] are they looking for?
[39:44] >> You know, they are so lost and they
[39:47] don't have the language, right? So it's
[39:49] hard for them. But what they will
[39:51] express is exhaustion,
[39:53] >> the pressure of needing to be a man, but
[39:56] not knowing
[39:57] >> what that even is,
[39:58] >> even an iota what that could mean. They
[40:00] know what not to be. So they're told to
[40:03] their their feelings are taught to them
[40:06] as weakness. And then they've been given
[40:08] a caricature of manhood from the
[40:10] manosphere. These men who teach them to
[40:13] resent women. So they they're taught
[40:15] about the negatives, but they're not
[40:16] given a clear blueprint. So they're
[40:18] lost, they're confused, they're
[40:19] exhausted already by 14. They feel the
[40:21] pressure of how am I going to go out
[40:23] into this world where I'm soon going to
[40:25] be told I'm useless because technology
[40:27] is taking away my function. And when
[40:29] boys are without purpose, without use
[40:32] with where they cannot see with clarity
[40:35] how they are competent, how they are
[40:38] serving and contributing, that is when
[40:41] it becomes perverted. Do the boys you
[40:43] talk to uh feel under attack uh by uh
[40:48] the culture? Do they feel pressured and
[40:49] under attack by the culture?
[40:51] >> Well, I think in in some ways that's a
[40:52] good thing because the me too movement
[40:54] has kept them in check and told them you
[40:57] cannot get your way with your impulses
[40:59] anymore. You need you can be in your
[41:01] instincts but you have to be careful
[41:03] about these wild impulses and they have
[41:05] now been checked. That is a good thing.
[41:07] But in that checking, we did not replace
[41:10] it with the road map to how to be a
[41:12] healthy conscious male. We've not given
[41:14] them that.
[41:14] >> And we certainly haven't made the
[41:16] distinction between your instincts and
[41:18] your impulses. So let's let's talk about
[41:21] sex. You say the culture has made sex,
[41:24] especially male sexuality, a dirty
[41:26] thing. Here's the cultural failure. Most
[41:29] boys pass through adolescence without a
[41:32] single initiation into the power, the
[41:35] responsibility and sexuality that is
[41:39] awakening inside them. I mean they are
[41:43] not. So how can parents talk to their
[41:44] sons about sex? So, if there was one
[41:47] core message that I think is the
[41:50] absolute takeaway from this book is male
[41:53] sexuality and how our boys entered their
[41:57] manhood in terms of their sexual
[41:58] awakening without a peep. Oprah, I asked
[42:02] most of the boys, did anyone tell you
[42:04] about your first nocturnal emission? Did
[42:07] anyone mark it for you? Did anyone tell
[42:09] you it's going to happen? And they all
[42:11] said no. Nobody. So it's no wonder they
[42:13] will go to the locker room or to the
[42:16] online sites or to to be initiated. You
[42:20] see females we when we menstruate
[42:23] there's blood so there has to be some
[42:25] conversation around it but what happens
[42:27] with boys happens in the silence of the
[42:29] night and it stays in the silence of the
[42:32] night under the
[42:33] >> I love that you call it nocturnal
[42:34] emissions. Okay. [laughter] Yeah. Okay.
[42:38] >> So so no one is telling them and some
[42:39] boys have told me that they thought they
[42:41] were dying. I remember when I got my
[42:42] period and I didn't know. I thought I
[42:44] was dying or I had a disease. So, you
[42:46] see when it stays in the secret of the
[42:49] night, right? The the mother comes the
[42:51] next morning, sees the dirty bed sheets,
[42:54] she see she sees the socks, she doesn't
[42:56] say a word.
[42:57] >> She tells the father about it, he
[42:59] doesn't say a word. And the nobody says
[43:00] a word.
[43:00] >> Nobody says a word. So, he goes to
[43:02] >> So, he goes online. No wonder he then
[43:06] goes to these rights of passages which
[43:08] are toxic and gamified rather than real
[43:10] life rights of passage.
[43:12] >> And then you write about how profoundly
[43:15] unprepared
[43:16] >> Yes. uh young men and boys are to handle
[43:19] female rejection
[43:21] >> because I I was talking about this with
[43:22] with with Galloway recently about boys
[43:25] are because they watch so much
[43:28] >> and want to speak to that
[43:29] >> and if if you watch you should just
[43:31] watch it just to understand what our
[43:33] children are watching don't be hidden
[43:35] under a rock right parents tell me oh I
[43:36] don't watch I go you don't have to watch
[43:39] for you I'm telling you to watch to
[43:41] understand what your children are
[43:42] exposed to by the age of 9 and 11 your
[43:45] boys have watched
[43:46] So you need to be prepared to have
[43:48] conversations with them. And this is not
[43:50] about sanctimony or morality. This is
[43:53] about reality. So um in women are always
[43:57] turned on.
[43:59] >> They're always willing.
[44:00] >> They're always ready.
[44:00] >> Move me anybody says no in a video
[44:03] >> and they are orgasmic and they're
[44:05] exalting and they are loving and
[44:07] worshiping the male body and he can do
[44:09] whatever he wants. It's so easy. There's
[44:11] no foreplay. There's no messy
[44:12] conversation. There's no does she like
[44:14] me? there's no reading of signs and
[44:16] attuning to whether she's rejecting me
[44:19] or so he's not understanding that there
[44:21] is such a thing. He they think the penis
[44:24] can just go into the vagina. These are
[44:25] open gateways and caves and women and
[44:27] and women are waiting. So then when they
[44:30] get rejected, can you imagine what it
[44:31] does to their ego?
[44:32] >> Yeah.
[44:33] >> They think the woman is mean on purpose.
[44:36] They take it personally. They don't
[44:38] understand that she's being sovereign.
[44:39] >> I feel like the kid in adolescence.
[44:41] >> Yes. like the kid in adolescence which
[44:43] really sparked my whole desire to write
[44:45] these books with a jolt because that boy
[44:48] has been trained by the man
[44:49] >> that's adolescence is what we're talking
[44:51] about.
[44:51] >> Yes. So he got so rejected by that girl
[44:53] he couldn't imagine why she would reject
[44:55] him. So he thought it was personal it
[44:57] was a personal attack and therefore it
[44:59] required a personal vengeance which is
[45:01] why he killed her. He did not understand
[45:04] that she's a sovereign being that she
[45:06] just and she he did not understand that
[45:08] just because he has desire that doesn't
[45:10] mean he gets to activate and manifest
[45:12] the desire
[45:12] >> but teaches you the opposite
[45:14] >> teaches you you have desire you have an
[45:16] outlet it's an immediate thing so that
[45:18] all those messy
[45:19] >> I don't think so many I don't think a
[45:20] lot of parents even realize how uh how
[45:24] influenced their young boys
[45:26] >> they and they think that their boys are
[45:28] not watching what are they doing behind
[45:30] the closed doors 14 hours during the
[45:33] weekend.
[45:34] >> Yeah.
[45:34] >> If not looking at every hour. So now
[45:38] these platforms have allowed free access
[45:41] to
[45:41] >> and it's also why so many young boys
[45:43] aren't dating and they've never asked as
[45:45] a person asked a real person out to
[45:47] date.
[45:48] >> It's too difficult. We we we women are
[45:50] not just going to take any guy now. They
[45:51] have to step up.
[45:52] >> Yep.
[45:53] >> So it's different.
[45:55] >> Okay. I I I have to get to this because
[45:57] we could talk for days about this book.
[45:59] I know. I just want to encourage every
[46:02] single person who has a son. You're
[46:04] raising a boy. You know somebody who is
[46:06] this is the perfect gift for them.
[46:07] Raising conscious sons. You're right.
[46:10] When a boy has no place to direct his
[46:12] energy, no one who needs him, no context
[46:16] in which he feels seen and shaped. His
[46:20] system doesn't rest. It inflames and
[46:25] burns. His purpose erodess. His
[46:28] motivation drains away and what is left
[46:30] is deep agitation, numbness or rage. And
[46:34] you believe isolation is slowly
[46:37] extinguishing the spirit of young boys.
[46:41] What can we do about this isolation?
[46:43] >> And because they don't talk about it,
[46:44] you know, we girls will show it. We
[46:46] women will show it in some way. We'll
[46:48] cry. We'll show it in our bodies. We'll
[46:51] express it. But there's hides behind
[46:54] stoicism. I'm okay. I'm fine. I don't
[46:57] know. So, we look at it as, "Oh, that's
[46:59] an independent boy. Look how independent
[47:01] my boy is. He doesn't need me. My
[47:03] daughter's 23. She will still come into
[47:05] my bed, still hug me, still kiss me,
[47:07] still demand I say I love you back." But
[47:09] I hear from my friends who are mothers
[47:11] of boys. There's no contact. And we
[47:14] exalt it as the independent male, the
[47:16] stoic male. But we don't realize that is
[47:18] a withering boy inside. And I call this
[47:21] book raising conscious sons and not boys
[47:23] because there is a son inside every
[47:26] adult man looking for mentorship. Oh
[47:30] that is a beautiful thing to say. A boy
[47:33] who does not feel emotionally safe will
[47:35] not develop resilience. He will develop
[47:37] armor.
[47:38] >> Yes.
[47:40] >> He will learn to numb rather than feel.
[47:43] Deflect rather than process. Dominate
[47:45] rather than relate. What makes a boy
[47:47] feel safe
[47:49] >> when we when they're very young allow
[47:53] their fire to be intense and big and
[47:56] chaotic and and information
[47:59] and since they are two and three we are
[48:02] telling them to sh be quiet sit down
[48:04] talk sit still be in a chair it is
[48:07] anti-boyhood
[48:09] and that's what we're doing from a young
[48:11] age so he begins to learn early that
[48:13] he's defective his deviance is a
[48:16] and his dis his hisa chaos is seen as
[48:18] disrespect when it is only
[48:20] disregulation.
[48:22] >> So we are failing our boys and then we
[48:25] end up with the toxic masculinity.
[48:27] >> And so you say you were inspired to do
[48:29] this after watching adolescence and you
[48:32] did this so quickly because you could
[48:33] feel the urgency that's needed in this
[48:35] moment in time.
[48:36] >> Yes. And I knew it needed to come out
[48:38] fast. And I got the publishers on a fast
[48:41] timeline. And I knew I needed to write
[48:43] two books. And they couldn't be in one
[48:45] book because boys and girls have
[48:48] different developmental trajectories,
[48:50] different hormonal landscapes. And
[48:52] culture exploits them in very precise
[48:55] different ways, different fault lines.
[48:58] And if we don't intervene precisely, we
[49:02] will lose the plot. Well, I think you
[49:04] have done exactly what you have come to
[49:06] the planet to do because you feel the
[49:08] sense of urgency and you also feel it
[49:10] with the parents who say they're
[49:12] drowning and they don't know what to do.
[49:14] >> Yes.
[49:15] >> Yeah.
[49:15] >> Yeah. And parents want to do well by
[49:17] their children. We have to look at each
[49:20] other as each of us wanting to do the
[49:22] best but we don't know how. So this book
[49:25] is that road map. I just didn't leave
[49:27] parents feeling anxious. I gave them the
[49:30] tools and the strategies. I broke it
[49:32] down and you may be a mother or a father
[49:35] who sees their boy more in the girls
[49:37] book in some chapters. I see a lot of
[49:39] Maya in this book. So, you need to read
[49:41] both as a continued conversation. These
[49:43] are not binaries. These are not
[49:45] manifestos of gender determinism. These
[49:48] are really a continued conversation and
[49:51] a cultural reckoning as to what our
[49:54] children need as whole humans in today's
[49:58] digital era. Well, I just want to say to
[50:00] everybody who's listening to us right
[50:02] now, if you want to be a more evolved,
[50:05] conscious parent, and you want a better
[50:07] life for yourself, your family, and you
[50:10] really want the best life for your son,
[50:14] you need to read this book. Thank you,
[50:16] Dr. Shafali. Raising conscious sons,
[50:19] cultivating purpose, connection, and
[50:22] inner power in a chaotic world. Thank
[50:25] you to Nicole and Sandra and Jen for
[50:27] your parenting questions and thank you
[50:28] all for watching and listening. We'll
[50:30] see you later this week for Raising
[50:32] Conscious Daughters. Go well. And thank
[50:35] you to our friends at Geico for
[50:36] presenting today's episode. Dr. Shafali
[50:39] has [music] two new books, raising
[50:41] conscious sons and raising conscious
[50:43] daughters. And yes, as Dr. Shafali says,
[50:45] raising a son versus a daughter are
[50:48] different [music] experiences. Both
[50:49] books are available on September 15th.
[50:51] You can pre-order your copies right now
[50:53] by scanning the QR [music] code on your
[50:55] screen. The books are both thoughtful.
[50:57] They're practical guides for raising
[50:59] emotionally secure and [music] resilient
[51:02] boys and girls while also navigating the
[51:04] complexities of today's world. I can't
[51:07] recommend them enough. I know for sure
[51:09] that these books are going to inspire
[51:10] [music] some meaningful conversations
[51:12] with you as a parent and with your
[51:15] friends and families. our listeners tell
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