Transcript
[0:00] Sustainable cultures
[0:01] of all experienced
[0:04] and engaged with
[0:06] what we would now
[0:07] call animism, which
[0:09] is the perceived
[0:11] and lived actuality
[0:13] of the weather,
[0:14] responding to
[0:15] our thoughts, the
[0:16] plants responding
[0:17] to our thoughts,
[0:18] the animals, the
[0:20] soil, the water,
[0:21] responding to
[0:21] our thoughts.
[0:23] And so once we allow
[0:25] our imagination to
[0:28] engage and recognize
[0:29] that the imagination
[0:30] is real, is the most
[0:33] powerful organ of
[0:35] the psyche, is the
[0:37] point, not where
[0:38] we create fantasy,
[0:39] but where we engage
[0:40] with relationship,
[0:42] then we can truly
[0:44] communicate with
[0:44] plants and animals
[0:46] and all of their
[0:47] environment.
[0:49] That was Dr. Patrick
[0:50] McMan Way, and
[0:51] you're listening
[0:51] to the Regenerative
[0:52] Journey.
[0:56] Good day.
[0:57] I'm your host,
[0:57] Charlie Arnt, an
[0:58] eighth generational
[0:59] Australian
[0:59] regenerative farmer.
[1:01] And in this podcast
[1:02] series, I'll be
[1:03] diving deep and
[1:04] exploring my guests
[1:04] unique perspectives
[1:05] on the world so
[1:06] you can apply
[1:07] their experience
[1:08] and knowledge to
[1:09] cultivate your own
[1:10] transition to a
[1:11] more regenerative
[1:12] way of life.
[1:19] Welcome to The
[1:20] Regenerative Journey
[1:21] with your host,
[1:22] Charlie Arnet.
[1:36] Good day.
[1:37] Welcome back to
[1:37] the Regenerative
[1:38] Journey.
[1:38] Welcome to this
[1:39] wonderful interview.
[1:40] With Dr. Patrick
[1:41] McMan way, he has
[1:43] been on my radar
[1:44] for so many years
[1:46] now to interview.
[1:46] I did meet Patrick
[1:47] many years ago
[1:48] having done his
[1:50] first a level
[1:51] one, a subtle
[1:52] energy workshop
[1:53] at a monastery
[1:54] near here from
[1:55] near Bo, actually
[1:55] Garland Monastery.
[1:56] This is going back,
[1:57] could be 10 years.
[1:58] And ever since I
[2:00] started the podcast,
[2:01] Patrick has been
[2:02] up the top of the
[2:03] list of people
[2:03] to track down.
[2:04] COVID did put a spin
[2:05] on the works 'cause
[2:06] Patrick doesn't
[2:06] live in Australia.
[2:07] He lives.
[2:08] Spends some of his
[2:09] time in Vermont,
[2:11] in the States
[2:11] and sometime
[2:13] in at Edinburgh
[2:14] and Scotland.
[2:15] So I was very
[2:16] fortunate to track
[2:17] him down in April,
[2:18] late April this
[2:19] year, 2025, down
[2:21] in Tasmania at, uh,
[2:22] Mona Vale and near
[2:23] the town of Ross.
[2:25] When I did with
[2:26] Lila, my daughter,
[2:27] my third level
[2:28] one, how bad's.
[2:30] That became a bit
[2:30] of a course joke at
[2:31] the fact that I was
[2:32] there for the third
[2:33] time, but it had
[2:33] been 10 years since
[2:34] I did the first one.
[2:35] Great excuse to
[2:36] catch up with
[2:37] Patrick and his
[2:37] wonderful team
[2:38] at Quantum Leap.
[2:39] Subtle Energy,
[2:40] wonderful new
[2:41] revive, not revive,
[2:43] but a new branded
[2:44] sort of business
[2:45] and organization,
[2:46] which I've been
[2:47] very supportive
[2:48] of, of, and I
[2:48] can't tell you how.
[2:49] Wonderful.
[2:50] The team there are
[2:51] in getting Patrick
[2:52] out twice a year
[2:53] now and having some
[2:54] very, very astute
[2:56] practitioners
[2:57] themselves.
[2:58] If you're wondering
[2:58] what subtle Energy's
[2:59] all about and what
[3:00] Patrick teaches,
[3:00] well, you'll just
[3:01] have to hang around
[3:02] for a bit longer
[3:02] and listen to the
[3:03] interview, but
[3:04] very fortunate to
[3:06] interview Patrick.
[3:07] It was the end of
[3:08] the last day, so
[3:09] it was, I think
[3:09] it was a two and
[3:10] a half day course.
[3:11] We had a pretty
[3:12] big couple of days.
[3:13] We were sitting
[3:14] at the wonderful
[3:15] property at
[3:16] Mona Vale there
[3:17] in Tasmania.
[3:18] As I said, the
[3:18] Cameron family,
[3:19] very generous to
[3:19] host that and to
[3:20] allow me the time.
[3:22] They'd all headed
[3:22] down to the
[3:23] pub for a feed.
[3:24] We had a little
[3:25] cheeky whiskey.
[3:26] We did have some,
[3:28] I was surprise,
[3:29] surprise,
[3:30] some technical
[3:31] difficulties, which
[3:32] we, we got around.
[3:32] I think the wifi
[3:33] wasn't working
[3:34] very well.
[3:34] Then my camera
[3:35] and the phone and
[3:36] the whole thing.
[3:37] Be assured, I trust
[3:39] this is the last
[3:40] interview you'll
[3:41] ever listen to
[3:42] where I'm whinging
[3:42] about technical
[3:44] difficulties.
[3:44] 'cause I've got a
[3:44] very cool little
[3:45] thing I'm recording
[3:46] with right now.
[3:47] The Osmo DJI Osmo
[3:49] handheld thing,
[3:50] which does it all,
[3:51] does the audio,
[3:51] does the video
[3:53] and the whole
[3:53] thing is awesome.
[3:55] But back to
[3:56] the interview.
[3:57] So we had a
[3:57] wonderful chat.
[3:58] I think we've
[3:59] managed to sort of
[4:00] splice the parts
[4:00] together that we had
[4:02] to, due to some of
[4:03] the hiccups we had.
[4:05] But it was a very
[4:06] wonderful yarn.
[4:07] As I said, one that
[4:08] I've been waiting
[4:09] to do for many,
[4:09] many years, Patrick,
[4:11] is it seems like
[4:12] Patrick's in this
[4:13] constant state of,
[4:14] not meditation,
[4:15] but this sort of
[4:16] reverence and grace.
[4:17] Which if you,
[4:18] when you listen
[4:19] to the rest of
[4:19] the interview,
[4:19] you'll, you'll
[4:20] really get what
[4:21] I'm talking about.
[4:22] That he is
[4:23] extraordinary.
[4:24] He is one of a
[4:25] kind and I can't
[4:27] tell you enough,
[4:28] I can't support
[4:29] you enough in your
[4:31] anyone's thinking
[4:32] about doing some
[4:33] of the workshops
[4:34] with Patrick and
[4:34] his wonderful team.
[4:35] We will get to that
[4:37] at some point in
[4:37] terms of the, the
[4:38] website and so on.
[4:40] It'll be in the
[4:40] show notes, but this
[4:42] is an amazing chat
[4:43] with, we went all
[4:43] over the place too.
[4:44] Patrick does go
[4:45] all over the cosmos
[4:47] and back to earth
[4:49] occasionally,
[4:50] but this is a
[4:50] really good yarn.
[4:51] Really enjoyed
[4:52] Patrick's company
[4:54] in the interview,
[4:54] but any other
[4:55] time I get to ca
[4:56] to hang out with
[4:56] Patrick, he's just
[4:57] an awesome human
[4:58] being and please
[5:00] enjoy this episode
[5:01] of the Regenerative
[5:01] Journey with Dr.
[5:02] Patrick Mcay.
[5:08] Patrick, um, welcome
[5:09] to the Regenerative
[5:10] journey and welcome
[5:12] to the sitting
[5:13] room here at Mon
[5:15] Vale in Tasmania.
[5:18] Absolutely.
[5:19] Pleasure to be
[5:19] with you, Charlie.
[5:21] Well, it's been
[5:21] my pleasure to be
[5:22] with you for the
[5:23] last two days at
[5:25] your Quantum Leap
[5:27] level One or Subtle
[5:28] Quantum Leap, subtle
[5:29] Energy level one.
[5:30] Mm-hmm.
[5:30] Course it's still
[5:31] still called Level
[5:32] One Foundations,
[5:33] course Foundations.
[5:34] Yes.
[5:34] Gotta get up with
[5:35] that, which, uh,
[5:37] we were laughing
[5:38] yesterday that
[5:38] it's my third,
[5:40] third attempt.
[5:42] But I had to blame
[5:43] you for the, it
[5:44] being three times.
[5:45] 'cause you're such a
[5:46] wonderful presenter.
[5:46] There's always
[5:47] something new.
[5:48] Well, either that or
[5:49] I'm just not doing
[5:50] a good job, Charlie.
[5:52] No, you're doing
[5:52] an amazing job.
[5:53] An amazing job.
[5:54] Um, Patrick, we
[5:55] are here, um, as
[5:57] I've just mentioned
[5:58] for, um, foundation
[6:00] Course Quantum Leap.
[6:01] So Energy, um,
[6:02] which is a new
[6:03] organization we
[6:04] might get to,
[6:04] actually I did
[6:04] interview Gary.
[6:06] Gary.
[6:06] Gary gave a good
[6:07] description of that.
[6:07] He was great.
[6:08] Yes.
[6:08] Yeah.
[6:08] What a lovely both.
[6:09] Yes.
[6:09] That was a
[6:09] lovely interview.
[6:10] Well done with that.
[6:11] Um, well, he's
[6:12] easy to talk to.
[6:13] Mm-hmm.
[6:15] Um, so we won't,
[6:17] we won't dwell on
[6:18] that too much as
[6:19] in the, we, we, we
[6:20] might touch on it
[6:21] while we're here and
[6:22] what's part of the
[6:22] course, but I've got
[6:23] a lot of questions.
[6:24] We are, I'm
[6:24] conscious of time.
[6:25] We've got friends,
[6:28] um, on their way to
[6:29] Oakland's, to the
[6:30] pub where we will
[6:31] be going in about
[6:32] an hour's time.
[6:33] So I'm conscious
[6:34] we've only got
[6:34] a little bit of
[6:34] time together.
[6:36] Um, which does give
[6:38] me the opportunity
[6:39] to go to Vermont
[6:42] or Edinburgh.
[6:43] Mm-hmm.
[6:44] Um, in the next
[6:45] 12 months, I hope,
[6:47] Patrick, as you
[6:49] know, our, the
[6:50] podcast is called
[6:51] The Regenerative
[6:51] Journey.
[6:51] Honor, hear a
[6:52] bit about your
[6:52] regenerative
[6:53] journey.
[6:53] Um.
[6:55] And can we start,
[6:57] there's, there's
[6:57] lots to I wanna
[6:58] ask you about, but
[6:59] let's start with
[7:00] where did, where
[7:01] did Little Patrick
[7:03] appear in the world?
[7:04] Where, what,
[7:04] where was day one?
[7:06] Yes.
[7:07] We had a birthday
[7:08] yesterday, which
[7:08] I want to get back
[7:09] to, but, so there's
[7:10] significance in
[7:11] that, but where you,
[7:12] you, where did you
[7:13] appear in the world?
[7:15] And in, in what
[7:16] sort of environment?
[7:16] Yes.
[7:17] Yes.
[7:18] Well, I was born as
[7:19] a small child for
[7:22] the, for the, for
[7:23] the how many, how
[7:23] many times Was it?
[7:24] 23rd time.
[7:25] Surprised and
[7:26] delighted parents.
[7:28] No, I was home
[7:29] delivery to
[7:30] vegetarian yoga
[7:31] teacher mum.
[7:32] Mm. And timed out,
[7:35] uh, to the second so
[7:36] that they could get
[7:37] the astrology done.
[7:40] Um, so my parents
[7:43] at the time had,
[7:46] uh, established
[7:48] I came in in 67.
[7:49] In 1959, mom and
[7:51] dad had established,
[7:53] uh, center in
[7:55] rural Scotland for
[7:57] spiritual healing
[7:58] and mediumship
[8:00] to both practice
[8:01] and train people.
[8:03] And that extended
[8:05] very much into,
[8:07] uh, the time, the
[8:08] renaissance and
[8:08] development of, um,
[8:10] alternative medicine
[8:11] holistic therapies.
[8:13] And so they were
[8:14] interested in
[8:17] natural therapies,
[8:18] natural medicine,
[8:19] and um, as lay
[8:23] practitioners really
[8:25] working with what we
[8:28] would now call Life
[8:29] Force energies And
[8:32] as dad would just
[8:33] call the celestial
[8:35] Civil Service, um,
[8:37] for really guidance
[8:40] in life, for
[8:41] guidance, especially
[8:42] in healing
[8:43] and healthcare
[8:44] and in the
[8:46] renaissance of, um.
[8:52] The commonplace
[8:53] spirituality,
[8:54] um, and gifts of
[8:56] spirit for the
[8:57] everyday woman
[8:58] and man context.
[9:00] Charlie was, um,
[9:03] uh, witchcraft
[9:04] Laws in the UK were
[9:07] abolished only in
[9:08] 1952, and prior to
[9:10] that, mom and dad,
[9:11] both for decades
[9:12] had been involved
[9:13] in, uh, natural
[9:16] therapy, spiritual
[9:16] healing, mediumship,
[9:18] different, uh,
[9:19] kinds of, and felt
[9:21] strongly called once
[9:22] the, um, witchcraft
[9:25] laws were abolished
[9:26] and replaced by
[9:26] the fraudulent
[9:27] Mediums Act to
[9:29] bring this back
[9:30] into the community
[9:31] in a strong, um.
[9:34] And, uh, authentic
[9:36] way to, uh, share
[9:39] that work and, um,
[9:41] empower people to,
[9:43] uh, connect with
[9:44] spirit and, um,
[9:46] use their gifts
[9:46] of healing and
[9:48] mediumship in, in
[9:49] everyday context,
[9:50] in everyday life.
[9:52] So they, they
[9:53] would've been deemed
[9:55] what they were
[9:56] doing before 19
[9:57] 56, 2, 19 52, yeah.
[10:00] 52 that what
[10:01] their activities
[10:02] would've been
[10:02] deemed witchcraft.
[10:03] Is that right?
[10:04] Is that right?
[10:04] That was the
[10:04] significance of
[10:05] that, that, that
[10:06] being abolished and
[10:07] them being able to
[10:08] then Yes, it was.
[10:09] So, I think
[10:13] as in many cultures,
[10:14] um, esoteric
[10:16] knowledge had
[10:17] been nurtured,
[10:19] cultivated,
[10:20] practiced,
[10:21] uh, quietly.
[10:24] In family circles,
[10:26] um, in, um, in
[10:29] closed, closed
[10:30] circles, closed
[10:31] rooms, uh, in
[10:33] America it was, it
[10:34] was open and free.
[10:36] Um, but, uh, in
[10:39] Europe and, and,
[10:40] uh, and England
[10:42] particularly, uh,
[10:43] not so unless one
[10:45] was, uh, ordained,
[10:46] uh, clergy, uh,
[10:49] Catholic or protest.
[10:50] The, the official
[10:50] witchcraft.
[10:51] The official
[10:52] the official,
[10:53] um, exactly.
[10:55] Um, we could
[10:56] possibly cynically
[10:57] call it trades
[10:58] unionism, but I'm
[10:59] sure, uh, depending
[11:01] on where one
[11:02] stood, one would
[11:02] have a different
[11:05] opinion and
[11:05] attitude, uh,
[11:07] towards that.
[11:08] But certainly, um,
[11:11] uh, kept separate
[11:12] from and denied
[11:14] to, uh, the common
[11:17] people like you
[11:18] and I, uh, in our
[11:19] everyday lives.
[11:22] And so, uh,
[11:24] practices of
[11:24] divination, um, the
[11:27] use of dowsing for
[11:28] finding water, for
[11:29] finding minerals,
[11:31] um, for finding and
[11:33] locating, missing
[11:34] people, missing
[11:35] things, um, the use
[11:37] of, um, um, plant
[11:41] medicines, um, and
[11:44] the, the use of
[11:45] the simple gift of,
[11:47] of natural healing
[11:48] were all, uh, very
[11:49] much contained,
[11:50] uh, within, uh,
[11:53] clergy and, uh,
[11:54] medical professions
[11:55] at the time.
[11:57] So really it was,
[11:58] it was the dawn
[11:59] of what we might
[12:00] now consider
[12:01] a renaissance
[12:02] or a new age.
[12:04] And, um, coincided
[12:06] with sort of
[12:06] social liberation
[12:07] of the 1960s and
[12:10] exploration of
[12:11] consciousness,
[12:12] uh, through, um.
[12:16] Uh, introduction
[12:17] of, uh, eastern
[12:19] practices of,
[12:20] of yoga, of, um,
[12:22] qung, of Tai chi
[12:24] of meditation.
[12:26] A great fascination,
[12:27] I think in the
[12:27] sixties and
[12:28] seventies with
[12:29] the emergence of
[12:30] Buddhism coming
[12:31] outta Tibet, um,
[12:34] consequence of the
[12:34] Chinese invasion
[12:35] and the displacement
[12:37] of, um, of the
[12:39] community there.
[12:41] And then in the
[12:41] 17 and eighties, a
[12:42] great interest in,
[12:43] um, native American
[12:46] spirituality.
[12:47] So I think it was
[12:47] a very fascinating
[12:49] and heady couple
[12:50] of decades of
[12:52] sudden openness
[12:53] and exploration of
[12:55] all manner of, um,
[12:57] what at the time,
[12:59] uh, in, in, um, in
[13:01] Britain, um, post
[13:04] Empire Britain
[13:05] would've been,
[13:05] um, sort of non,
[13:08] non-traditional,
[13:09] non-conformist, uh,
[13:10] but very authentic
[13:11] spiritual seeking.
[13:12] Yeah.
[13:13] And you were in
[13:13] the middle of that,
[13:14] grew your family?
[13:15] I grew up in the
[13:15] middle of that, yes.
[13:16] And you had, you
[13:17] have, um, siblings,
[13:19] you're the, are
[13:20] you the youngest?
[13:20] I'm the youngest
[13:21] of three.
[13:22] Yeah.
[13:22] Uh, so we were all,
[13:25] uh, brought up with,
[13:27] um, metaphysics,
[13:30] spirituality, um.
[13:33] Uh, healing, uh,
[13:35] discussed at kitchen
[13:37] table and, um,
[13:39] because it was a,
[13:40] a teaching center
[13:41] as well as, as a
[13:42] practicing center,
[13:42] there were always
[13:44] students around
[13:45] up to seven or
[13:47] eight full-time
[13:48] residential students
[13:49] and many people
[13:50] coming for courses
[13:51] and conferences
[13:52] and workshops.
[13:53] So we would average
[13:55] probably a dozen
[13:56] to 15 around
[13:57] the, the kitchen
[13:59] table for meals.
[14:00] And the interest
[14:03] was in all of the
[14:05] subtle energy world.
[14:06] So it was, it was
[14:08] simply the family
[14:09] culture and we
[14:10] grew up knowing
[14:11] nothing else.
[14:12] What a wonderful,
[14:13] nurturing
[14:15] environment.
[14:16] So different from.
[14:19] I suspect everyone
[14:20] who was at the
[14:20] um, course today,
[14:22] certainly mine,
[14:22] which is not, you
[14:24] know, it was very
[14:25] conventional.
[14:26] So Patrick
[14:27] appeared in that
[14:29] wonderful nurturing
[14:30] environment.
[14:31] Um.
[14:32] Where were you?
[14:33] You're in Edinburgh?
[14:34] No, north of
[14:35] Edinburgh.
[14:36] Uh, 45 minutes to
[14:37] drive, uh, rural
[14:40] fife, uh, little
[14:41] village called
[14:41] Strath Melo.
[14:43] Um, about 20 mi
[14:45] miles, uh, inland
[14:47] of St. Andrews.
[14:49] Oh, nice.
[14:49] So north of
[14:50] Edinburgh,
[14:51] south of Perth.
[14:51] Rolling, uh,
[14:53] rural agricultural
[14:55] landscape.
[14:55] Very beautiful.
[14:57] Uh, gentle climate.
[14:58] Four seasons,
[14:59] climate and
[15:00] deep soils.
[15:02] Um, grain and
[15:03] dairy bread.
[15:04] Basket of Scotland.
[15:06] Mm-hmm.
[15:07] Lovely.
[15:08] And then so
[15:08] schooling, um, was
[15:10] that a, did you
[15:12] just go to school?
[15:12] Were you
[15:12] homeschooled or
[15:13] what happened?
[15:13] No, we went to
[15:14] school and in and
[15:15] outta private and
[15:16] public sector.
[15:18] Um, brothers went
[15:20] boarding school.
[15:21] I didn't wanna leave
[15:22] home 'cause I loved
[15:24] the, uh, the family
[15:26] culture and we had
[15:29] ponies and dogs and
[15:31] chickens and geese
[15:32] and it was good at
[15:33] home and I loved
[15:34] the family vibe,
[15:35] so I was allowed to
[15:37] stay as a day boy,
[15:38] which meant going
[15:39] to our local, uh,
[15:41] state sponsored
[15:42] comprehensive
[15:43] school.
[15:44] But, um, the
[15:47] academics were
[15:48] good and it let
[15:48] me stay home and.
[15:52] Participate
[15:52] and learn from
[15:53] the parents.
[15:54] And you went
[15:55] to the medical
[15:56] school after that.
[15:57] Your father was,
[15:58] was he a doctor?
[15:58] Father was military.
[16:00] Oh, isn't he?
[16:01] He, he wasn't
[16:01] a doctor.
[16:01] Not at all.
[16:02] I think he
[16:02] was a doctor.
[16:03] No, quite
[16:03] the opposite.
[16:04] Charlie.
[16:04] Mm-hmm.
[16:05] He was a military
[16:05] brat, son of
[16:06] military officer.
[16:08] Uh, was he strict?
[16:11] Uh, well aged
[16:12] eight to 18.
[16:14] He'd been in
[16:14] military academy
[16:16] and then war broke
[16:17] out when he was 19.
[16:19] So he went off
[16:19] with British
[16:20] Expeditionary Force.
[16:22] His mom had been a
[16:24] trance medium, and
[16:25] so he got a little
[16:25] bit of coaching.
[16:27] In that realm.
[16:28] But he definitively
[16:29] discovered a gift
[16:32] of healing age
[16:33] 19, uh, rear guard
[16:35] action at Dunkirk.
[16:37] And, um, compelled
[16:40] to put his hands on
[16:41] wounded comrades and
[16:44] astonished to find,
[16:45] um, cessation of
[16:46] pain, uh, cessation
[16:49] of blood loss
[16:50] and keeping them
[16:50] alive rather than
[16:52] they're going into
[16:54] to shock states.
[16:55] And that really
[16:56] was what opened
[16:57] his mind.
[16:58] And the military was
[16:59] very open to psychic
[17:01] practices at.
[17:03] Then certainly,
[17:03] and I think
[17:05] perhaps quietly
[17:06] around the world,
[17:07] variously still now.
[17:09] And so, um, he
[17:13] developed, uh,
[17:14] his healing and
[17:16] mediumship practices
[17:18] whilst a regular
[17:20] officer for 20
[17:20] years, um, uh, going
[17:24] across North Africa.
[17:26] Um, literally every
[17:28] single night the
[17:29] officers had a
[17:30] seance, um, using
[17:33] those techniques
[17:34] to establish enemy
[17:35] troop positions,
[17:36] numbers Wow.
[17:37] Uh, tanks,
[17:38] artillery,
[17:39] uh, ordinance,
[17:40] et cetera.
[17:42] And, um, he
[17:43] was involved
[17:44] in experiments
[17:46] of, uh, using
[17:47] dowsing to, uh,
[17:48] locate, um, ships
[17:51] at sea and, um.
[17:54] Is there a book
[17:55] about this?
[17:55] Is it, is
[17:56] this, is this a
[17:56] documented thing?
[17:58] Uh, it's variously
[18:00] documented.
[18:02] Um, mostly I think
[18:05] it was very quietly
[18:07] done, um, but the,
[18:11] the psychic and
[18:14] psychic effort
[18:15] and, and use of
[18:16] esoteric magic,
[18:18] uh, during second
[18:20] World War, but also
[18:21] in basically all
[18:22] previous conflicts.
[18:24] Mm-hmm.
[18:24] Been very
[18:25] widely spread.
[18:26] Yeah.
[18:26] Yes.
[18:27] Um, brewing up
[18:29] storms to disperse
[18:30] the Spanish armada.
[18:32] And, um, didn't
[18:33] Churchill have
[18:33] someone put
[18:34] a bubble over
[18:35] London or England?
[18:36] Churchill was very
[18:37] involved and, um,
[18:40] was directing, uh,
[18:41] a group of inner
[18:42] psychics, Wellesley
[18:44] t Poll, Dion,
[18:45] fortune, and others,
[18:47] uh, with a, the high
[18:50] depths of the day.
[18:51] And, um, the whole
[18:53] of the nation poured
[18:54] its psychic energy
[18:57] to their use during
[18:58] the, uh, appeared
[19:01] that it took Big
[19:02] Ben to chime nine
[19:05] o'clock, right?
[19:06] They had a two
[19:07] minute, uh, national
[19:10] time of prayer,
[19:12] and that energy
[19:12] was then used and
[19:13] directed by, uh,
[19:15] Churchill's Aept.
[19:16] It was, was that
[19:17] a, was that a
[19:17] daily thing?
[19:18] Everyone knew
[19:19] when the child,
[19:19] when the, oh wow.
[19:21] That's pretty
[19:21] powerful, isn't it?
[19:22] Very powerful
[19:23] now, a nation Wow.
[19:25] Under, uh,
[19:26] threat and duress
[19:27] really pulls.
[19:28] All the stops
[19:29] are out.
[19:30] Um, and, uh,
[19:33] whether, whether
[19:34] you think it's
[19:34] rational or not
[19:36] at that point,
[19:36] doesn't matter.
[19:37] You're, it's like
[19:37] with every tool in
[19:39] the box, any tool in
[19:40] the box, I think so.
[19:42] And so if it works
[19:43] we'll use it.
[19:45] So, very
[19:45] interesting.
[19:46] Very interesting
[19:46] times and stories
[19:47] come out of, of, uh,
[19:49] of that, that time.
[19:52] Uh, in terms
[19:53] of use of,
[19:57] uh, psychic
[19:58] espionage.
[19:59] Psychic
[19:59] misinformation.
[20:00] Psychic
[20:00] disinformation,
[20:01] because both
[20:02] sides were very
[20:03] engaged with.
[20:04] Mm-hmm.
[20:06] With, um, with that,
[20:08] and you had, you
[20:09] was, was it today?
[20:10] Yesterday, you said
[20:11] you had a, an early
[20:13] retirement party.
[20:14] Mm. You wanna tell
[20:16] us about that?
[20:17] Well, growing
[20:18] up, uh, with, uh,
[20:20] this rich mix of.
[20:23] Uh, practical
[20:23] spirituality and,
[20:25] uh, alternative
[20:27] holistic therapies
[20:29] practiced on
[20:30] people and animals
[20:32] and places.
[20:33] I was just on,
[20:37] on team from
[20:38] the get go.
[20:38] I wanted to join
[20:39] in and participate
[20:41] and, um, at the
[20:44] time, Britain wasn't
[20:46] yet a member of
[20:47] the European Union.
[20:49] Um, but there was
[20:51] an anticipation
[20:52] of joining, which
[20:53] obviously we
[20:54] did, uh, for a
[20:55] period of time.
[20:57] But alternative
[20:58] medicine, whilst it
[20:59] was, uh, permissible
[21:00] and unregulated in
[21:01] the UK was highly
[21:03] regulated in, um,
[21:06] at the time both
[21:07] Frozens and Germany.
[21:09] And, uh, uh, even,
[21:13] uh, alternative
[21:15] medicines were not.
[21:16] Legally, um, uh,
[21:21] allowed to be
[21:22] practiced, uh,
[21:23] unless one had a
[21:23] medical degree.
[21:25] Is the German
[21:27] hang up with that?
[21:28] Is that a
[21:28] hangover from.
[21:31] Because I know
[21:31] Hitler wasn't a
[21:32] big fan of that
[21:32] sort of stuff.
[21:33] Well, he, he knew
[21:33] all about it, but he
[21:34] was trying to squash
[21:35] it, wasn't he?
[21:35] Is that, was
[21:36] that a bit of
[21:36] a hangover or?
[21:37] That part I'm not
[21:39] quite clear on.
[21:40] Uh, the Germans
[21:41] I think had a
[21:42] three year health
[21:43] practitioner
[21:44] training that
[21:45] was required.
[21:46] The French wanted
[21:47] a full, uh,
[21:48] medical license.
[21:49] Okay.
[21:50] So anticipating
[21:51] that, um, parents
[21:53] recommended I, uh,
[21:54] get a medical degree
[21:56] and a license so
[21:57] that I could then
[21:58] safely practice
[22:00] complimentary
[22:00] therapies Right.
[22:01] For the rest
[22:01] of my life.
[22:02] Okay.
[22:03] So that was
[22:04] the agenda.
[22:04] Went and had,
[22:06] uh, six years
[22:08] in Edinburgh.
[22:09] Mm-hmm.
[22:10] Uh, getting,
[22:12] getting medically
[22:12] trained and then
[22:13] working, uh, for a
[22:14] year with National
[22:16] Health Services
[22:17] as junior doctor
[22:18] until I got my, um.
[22:21] My license and
[22:22] then a retirement
[22:23] party, uh, followed,
[22:25] uh, earliest
[22:26] retirement party
[22:27] was I was free to,
[22:27] uh, free to pursue
[22:29] other practices.
[22:31] I did end up doing
[22:32] another eight months
[22:33] of, uh, of National
[22:35] Health Service
[22:36] medicine while
[22:37] I, uh, explored
[22:39] and tracked down
[22:39] further training in.
[22:41] In the holistic
[22:42] environmental
[22:43] work that I, I
[22:44] do now, and that
[22:45] was actually very
[22:45] lovely, was eight
[22:47] months of work in
[22:48] the Orny Islands off
[22:49] the north coast of
[22:50] Scotland in a very
[22:51] lovely community
[22:52] and mm-hmm.
[22:53] Uh, very beautiful
[22:54] circumstances.
[22:55] But, uh, yes, during
[22:58] that time, I'd, I'd
[22:59] found a training
[23:01] that I wanted to
[23:01] take in Vermont,
[23:03] which was a two
[23:04] year apprenticeship
[23:05] because I know
[23:06] you, you well.
[23:06] Okay.
[23:07] So your association
[23:07] with the Vermont
[23:08] goes all the way
[23:08] back to then, even
[23:10] before, uh, American
[23:12] Society of Dowsers
[23:13] is headquartered
[23:14] in Vermont.
[23:15] Yeah.
[23:15] Right.
[23:15] And dad had been
[23:16] keynote speaker
[23:17] for them in 1984,
[23:19] and, uh, I was
[23:20] taking a gap year
[23:21] between high school
[23:22] and medical school
[23:23] that year and
[23:25] had gone over and
[23:25] spent 10 weeks on.
[23:27] Uh, friends
[23:28] Tree Farm.
[23:29] Mm oh yeah.
[23:31] Uh, which then was
[23:33] my first falling
[23:34] in love with,
[23:36] uh, farm work
[23:38] and agriculture.
[23:39] And when I went
[23:40] back 92 to 94, I
[23:43] was able to live and
[23:44] work on, on the same
[23:46] farm whilst I took
[23:48] my apprenticeship
[23:48] in the construction
[23:49] and ucs of sacred
[23:50] space, which include
[23:52] studies in earth,
[23:53] energy, dowsing, uh,
[23:56] but also astronomy,
[23:57] astrology, sacred
[23:58] geometry, and the
[24:00] wisdom traditions
[24:01] of Native
[24:03] American, Celtic,
[24:04] and, uh, Norse.
[24:07] Uh, and a little bit
[24:08] the western mystery
[24:10] tradition also.
[24:11] But it was wonderful
[24:13] combination,
[24:13] Charlie.
[24:14] 'cause I got to
[24:14] study the esoteric
[24:15] and then put it to
[24:16] work on the farm.
[24:18] Um, is that
[24:20] where you were?
[24:22] Digging up
[24:22] trees Yes.
[24:23] And trying and
[24:24] singing to them.
[24:25] Yes.
[24:26] And then, because
[24:26] I, that's something
[24:27] I often quote and,
[24:29] and we did all
[24:31] that today with
[24:32] the, um, sentient
[24:33] of Plants, which
[24:34] is a whole nother
[24:35] podcast series,
[24:36] but pretty much.
[24:38] But that was a
[24:38] fascinating thing.
[24:39] Can you tell
[24:39] us that story?
[24:40] That the Yes, yes.
[24:42] I, I had grown
[24:44] up, um, not in
[24:45] an agricultural
[24:46] framework at all,
[24:47] and so working,
[24:50] uh, laboring on
[24:51] this tree farm was
[24:52] really my first
[24:52] introduction, and
[24:53] I, I didn't know
[24:55] any different.
[24:57] But, um, uh, the
[24:59] farmer, Steve, uh,
[25:03] lovely human being,
[25:04] uh, had grown up
[25:05] on the farm, uh,
[25:08] taken a degree in
[25:08] English literature,
[25:10] was a poet, a
[25:10] songster, uh,
[25:12] deep philosophical
[25:13] thinker.
[25:15] And so when we
[25:17] would go into the
[25:18] forest, uh, we would
[25:21] start by pausing,
[25:23] centering ourselves,
[25:25] opening our minds,
[25:26] communicating
[25:27] with spirit of the
[25:29] place, spirit of
[25:30] the forest, let it
[25:31] know what we were
[25:32] coming to do, which
[25:33] in this circumstance
[25:34] was coming to, uh,
[25:36] dig native saplings
[25:37] from the forest and
[25:40] wrap them in root
[25:41] balls, and then
[25:45] take them into care
[25:46] and subsequently
[25:47] move them on and
[25:48] sell them to a.
[25:50] Uh, nurseries and
[25:51] landscaping, uh,
[25:53] companies to be
[25:56] planted out as, as,
[25:57] um, ornamentals.
[26:01] And so we would
[26:04] presence ourselves.
[26:05] We would
[26:06] communicate,
[26:06] we would have
[26:07] a little prey.
[26:07] We'd go into the
[26:08] forest, and then we
[26:11] would only ever work
[26:12] with hand tools.
[26:13] So there were no
[26:13] power tools, and
[26:15] we would sing
[26:16] while we worked.
[26:17] And partly that was
[26:18] just fun and it made
[26:19] the day go along.
[26:20] And also it was
[26:22] very practical and
[26:23] helpful because
[26:23] sometimes we were
[26:25] two or three or four
[26:25] of us lifting heavy
[26:26] things together.
[26:28] And just like a sea
[26:29] shanty, if you were
[26:30] all singing along,
[26:31] then you all lifted.
[26:33] You know, in
[26:34] rhythm together.
[26:34] And so the lift
[26:35] went well and nobody
[26:37] was outta sync and
[26:38] nobody got hurt.
[26:40] So, but I'd never
[26:40] done any other farm
[26:41] work any other way.
[26:42] So I kind of thought
[26:43] this was just what
[26:44] you did on the farm.
[26:46] Yeah, yeah.
[26:46] I learned
[26:47] differently
[26:48] subsequently, but,
[26:49] uh, I had a moment
[26:51] of revelation,
[26:52] Charlie, when, um,
[26:55] uh, on one occasion
[26:56] we were delivering
[26:57] 450 trees, uh, to
[27:00] a big landscaping
[27:01] yard, uh, three
[27:03] hours south of us.
[27:05] And so we'd gone
[27:06] down and transported
[27:08] the trees and just
[27:10] circumstantially.
[27:11] I ended up, uh,
[27:12] offloading them
[27:13] shoulder to shoulder
[27:14] with the site
[27:15] manager of the yard,
[27:17] and he was very
[27:18] concerned to let me
[27:20] know that uh, their
[27:22] industry standard
[27:24] was a 10% wastage on
[27:27] trees that came in.
[27:28] So they expected and
[27:30] experienced 10% of
[27:32] all the trees that
[27:33] were delivered to
[27:33] them to die and.
[27:38] But in 15 years,
[27:39] he'd never lost
[27:40] a single tree
[27:41] from my boss.
[27:42] Zero.
[27:43] And he wanted, he
[27:44] wanted, he really
[27:44] wanted me to know
[27:45] that it was, yeah,
[27:46] this was, this
[27:47] was remarkable and
[27:48] clearly exceptional
[27:49] in his mind.
[27:49] Did he, did he wanna
[27:50] know why or how?
[27:51] No, he didn't
[27:52] know why.
[27:53] He assumed, and
[27:54] I have to assume
[27:55] also, that Steve was
[27:56] just very careful
[27:58] and meticulous,
[27:59] uh, in every way
[28:01] and only let trees
[28:02] off farm that
[28:03] he was confident
[28:04] would survive
[28:05] and, and thrive.
[28:07] But even so, to lose
[28:09] none in 15 years
[28:11] against an industry
[28:11] standard of 10%,
[28:12] it just left me
[28:13] thinking something.
[28:15] Really different
[28:16] is happening here.
[28:18] And the love and
[28:19] the care and the
[28:20] singing, um, was the
[28:24] only thing apparent
[28:25] to me that would be
[28:27] in any way different
[28:27] from, um, some
[28:31] other, any other,
[28:31] any other nursery.
[28:33] So what, so what
[28:34] is it about the
[28:34] singing and the
[28:35] love that, that,
[28:38] I mean obviously
[28:38] other people weren't
[28:39] doing it, but why,
[28:40] why would that have
[28:41] had, why would that
[28:42] make a difference?
[28:42] A difference?
[28:43] Um.
[28:46] So that and
[28:47] subsequent studies
[28:48] and practice and
[28:49] experience has
[28:51] led me into a
[28:52] deep awareness and
[28:54] pragmatic experience
[28:56] of the degree to
[28:58] which plants are
[29:00] sentient and truly
[29:04] understand our
[29:05] thoughts, understand
[29:07] our feelings, uh,
[29:09] have capacity to
[29:12] adapt their, uh,
[29:14] metabolism, um,
[29:17] their expressed.
[29:20] Uh, physiological
[29:22] features.
[29:23] Um, and just like an
[29:26] animal or a person,
[29:28] uh, they respond
[29:29] to our love, they
[29:31] hear and understand
[29:32] our thoughts.
[29:33] If we listen
[29:34] carefully with
[29:35] deep listening,
[29:38] we can allow them
[29:39] to put thoughts and
[29:41] feelings and, um,
[29:43] communications back
[29:45] into our minds so
[29:46] we can have a deep
[29:49] and highly
[29:49] cooperative and
[29:50] constructive
[29:51] conversation with,
[29:52] with plants as
[29:53] indeed we can, with
[29:54] animals, with birds,
[29:58] with, uh, rivers,
[30:00] with weather.
[30:01] Um, I've really
[30:03] personally
[30:03] experienced,
[30:05] uh, in a very.
[30:06] Practical and
[30:08] pragmatically
[30:09] useful way.
[30:11] Uh, the true
[30:12] sentient that's
[30:14] held in reverence by
[30:16] indigenous cultures
[30:18] all over the
[30:18] world in including
[30:20] our own European
[30:22] ancestry, um, who
[30:24] are in endless
[30:25] communication with
[30:26] their landscape.
[30:27] And, uh, the
[30:28] landscape
[30:29] intelligences
[30:30] that go by, uh,
[30:32] the various name,
[30:33] the the she of
[30:34] Scotland, the, the
[30:36] af, the g Nome, the
[30:37] fairy, the self.
[30:39] These aren't, um,
[30:40] fantasy figures for
[30:43] children's stories.
[30:44] These are powerful
[30:46] elemental forces
[30:47] with, uh, full
[30:49] consciousness and,
[30:50] um, powerful agency.
[30:54] And we live in and
[30:55] by their grace.
[30:56] And if we.
[30:58] Humbly connects
[30:59] and, um, ask
[31:02] and communicate
[31:02] with them.
[31:03] They can help
[31:04] us out in
[31:04] unbelievable ways.
[31:06] Uh, and if we don't,
[31:09] then they can, um,
[31:15] uh,
[31:20] if we don't do that,
[31:21] we miss a trick.
[31:22] Or two.
[31:24] Uh, and, um,
[31:26] by not being in
[31:28] dialogue with our
[31:29] landscape, we end
[31:31] up acting in, um,
[31:35] in disconnected ways
[31:36] that create harm
[31:38] and, um, and injury
[31:42] to ourselves as well
[31:43] as the landscape
[31:44] and put us into a,
[31:46] an unsustainable
[31:47] relationship,
[31:48] um, with it.
[31:50] But, um, sustainable
[31:53] cultures all
[31:54] over the world,
[31:56] or one of the
[31:57] primary paradigms
[31:58] that allows
[31:59] sustainability is
[32:02] the awareness
[32:03] and, uh.
[32:05] Actuated skill
[32:07] of landscape
[32:09] communication.
[32:11] Um, and that's what
[32:15] keeps us in balance
[32:18] with our environment
[32:19] at the most,
[32:20] uh, fundamental
[32:21] level, I think.
[32:22] And this, the,
[32:23] this level one or
[32:25] foundational, um,
[32:27] course that we are
[32:29] in the middle of.
[32:30] Um, it's three
[32:32] days, so there's
[32:32] a lot in it.
[32:33] What, what can,
[32:35] I mean, I guess
[32:35] I'm just sort of
[32:37] dangling the carrot
[32:38] for listeners
[32:39] and viewers.
[32:39] Like, what, what
[32:40] would be, just give
[32:43] them a sense of, um,
[32:46] whether it's stage
[32:46] one or step one
[32:47] into relationship
[32:50] with landscape.
[32:51] What, what, what
[32:51] sort of a mind,
[32:53] um, Headspace does
[32:54] one need to be in?
[32:55] Or is there a. Is
[32:57] there a, um, without
[32:58] going through every
[32:59] single step, 'cause
[33:00] there's a, I guess
[33:00] a bit of a thing
[33:00] to it, but what,
[33:02] where, where would
[33:02] people wanna start
[33:03] to even just get in?
[33:06] Well, I guess in
[33:07] that state of grace
[33:10] in terms of
[33:11] practicing at,
[33:12] um, yeah, you're
[33:13] just sort of
[33:14] thinking, okay.
[33:15] I, I, I want to,
[33:16] I want to get one
[33:17] step closer to Yes.
[33:18] That appreciation
[33:19] and that
[33:20] acknowledgement and
[33:21] that sort of, you
[33:21] know, awareness.
[33:24] Yes.
[33:24] So, um, and apart
[33:26] from every, I'm
[33:26] highly encouraging
[33:27] everyone to go and
[33:28] do the course, but
[33:29] you Well, uh, uh,
[33:31] actually, maybe
[33:31] don't say anything
[33:32] so that people
[33:33] will have to go.
[33:36] No, no.
[33:36] Give them a little,
[33:37] let's, let's
[33:38] bait them a bit.
[33:39] I think.
[33:39] I think, I
[33:40] think, uh.
[33:43] Truly Charlie.
[33:44] Um, the connection
[33:47] with the
[33:48] intelligences of
[33:49] landscape, uh, the
[33:51] connection of the
[33:51] intelligences of
[33:54] our ancestors, of,
[33:56] um, the angelic
[33:57] community, it's
[34:00] truly and literally
[34:01] the most natural
[34:02] thing of all that
[34:04] we can possibly do.
[34:08] And so we don't need
[34:09] to go on a course
[34:10] or a workshop.
[34:12] We simply need to
[34:13] allow ourselves,
[34:15] um, to authentically
[34:18] engage, um,
[34:20] with our.
[34:22] Intuition with
[34:23] our instinct, with
[34:24] our innate wisdom.
[34:27] Um, it's got us
[34:29] through the last
[34:30] half million years,
[34:32] uh, and it'll get
[34:33] us through the next
[34:34] two or 3 million
[34:35] years if we simply
[34:37] keep doing what
[34:38] we always did.
[34:39] And, um, for 99%
[34:44] of human history,
[34:46] um, we've lived
[34:47] in circular time.
[34:49] Mm. Um, where we
[34:52] understand that all,
[34:55] all projects, uh,
[34:57] all endeavors or
[34:59] activities follow
[35:00] a circular path.
[35:02] Uh, the circle
[35:03] of the breath,
[35:04] the circle of the
[35:05] heartbeat, the
[35:05] circle of the day,
[35:06] the circle of the
[35:07] season, the circle
[35:08] of the year, um,
[35:12] and, uh, sustainable
[35:15] cultures of all.
[35:17] Experienced and
[35:19] engaged with what
[35:21] we would now call
[35:22] animism, um, which
[35:24] is the perceived
[35:26] and lived actuality
[35:28] of, um, the weather,
[35:31] responding to
[35:32] our thoughts, the
[35:33] plants responding
[35:34] to our thoughts,
[35:34] the animals, uh,
[35:36] the soil, the
[35:37] water, responding
[35:38] to our thoughts.
[35:40] And so once we allow
[35:42] our imagination,
[35:45] uh, to engage and
[35:46] recognize that
[35:47] the imagination is
[35:48] real, um, is, uh,
[35:51] the most powerful
[35:53] organ of the psyche
[35:55] is the point.
[35:56] Not where we create
[35:57] fantasy, but where
[35:58] we engage with
[35:59] relationship.
[36:01] Um, then we can
[36:02] truly communicate
[36:04] with plants and
[36:04] animals and all of
[36:06] their environment.
[36:07] And, um,
[36:08] historically,
[36:11] uh, as stewards,
[36:13] that was our
[36:14] responsible
[36:14] role and.
[36:16] I like to quote, um,
[36:19] the tradition of,
[36:21] uh, Celtic kingship,
[36:23] uh, in Scotland
[36:24] and, and the Celtic
[36:25] lands, which was
[36:27] not an inherited or
[36:28] executive function,
[36:30] but was an elected
[36:32] and ambassadorial
[36:33] function.
[36:34] And so, uh, drawn
[36:36] from the wisest,
[36:39] most peaceful.
[36:41] Uh, most connected
[36:42] members of the
[36:43] community, uh,
[36:45] kingship involved in
[36:46] Scotland eight times
[36:48] a year, uh, going to
[36:50] our central sacred
[36:51] Mount in Chalian
[36:53] and engaging in
[36:54] deep, uh, meditation
[36:55] and, uh, direct
[36:57] communication with
[36:58] the queen of the
[36:59] she, the queen of
[37:00] the nature, spirit
[37:01] and elemental
[37:02] community of
[37:04] that landscape.
[37:06] And then coming
[37:06] down the mountain
[37:08] after their journey,
[37:09] uh, of shamanic
[37:10] connection and
[37:13] sharing with the
[37:13] people how many
[37:14] deer could be taken
[37:16] from the forest, how
[37:17] many salmon could
[37:18] be taken from the
[37:19] river, uh, how many
[37:21] cows, how many sheep
[37:22] could be supported
[37:23] by the landscape,
[37:24] when to plant,
[37:25] when to harvest.
[37:28] And in this way, the
[37:30] people were governed
[37:31] by the landscape
[37:33] intelligence.
[37:35] And the role of
[37:36] that ambassadorial
[37:37] function was to
[37:39] ensure, uh, intimate
[37:41] communication so
[37:42] that the people
[37:44] literally lived in
[37:45] a sustainable way.
[37:47] Um, and so we look
[37:52] for our leaders now.
[37:54] Uh, to do the same
[37:55] job, um, not to
[37:57] sit and think alone
[37:59] in an isolated
[38:00] space, but to be
[38:03] in deep connection
[38:04] with the governing
[38:05] agencies that
[38:06] support human life
[38:08] in the landscape.
[38:09] Uh, not to either
[38:11] think that they're.
[38:12] To be taken for
[38:13] granted and also
[38:14] not to think that
[38:15] they're inanimate,
[38:17] um, and, uh,
[38:20] non-negotiable or,
[38:22] um, uh, exploitable
[38:25] resource.
[38:27] And once you
[38:28] experience for
[38:29] the first time,
[38:30] as, as we have.
[38:32] In the workshop
[38:33] here, uh, the
[38:35] transformation, um,
[38:40] that can occur.
[38:41] We've had our,
[38:43] our beverage
[38:43] blessing Mm.
[38:45] Experience where
[38:46] Yeah, that's great.
[38:47] Um, by sharing
[38:49] love and then
[38:50] communication
[38:51] with vegetable
[38:52] and fruit juice.
[38:53] We've experienced,
[38:56] you know, changes
[38:57] in flavor, changes
[38:59] in texture.
[39:00] I'm just waiting to
[39:01] turn the color to go
[39:02] from green to Well,
[39:03] I is that next.
[39:04] You just, you just
[39:05] needed to take a
[39:06] little bit longer
[39:07] working at it,
[39:08] because the first
[39:08] time I saw you do
[39:09] that was at the
[39:11] gay long monastery.
[39:12] Mm. With red wine.
[39:13] Yes.
[39:14] That was a very
[39:15] interesting place
[39:16] in just for that
[39:17] to in many ways.
[39:19] In many ways, yeah.
[39:20] But that was
[39:20] fascinating.
[39:21] I often reference
[39:22] that one.
[39:23] So that's a, that's
[39:24] a very tangible
[39:25] application that's
[39:26] very tangible.
[39:27] And uh, when we
[39:29] do that on farm,
[39:32] uh, we see the
[39:33] response of stock.
[39:35] Mm. Um, one of my
[39:36] favorite stories
[39:37] is we shared, uh,
[39:40] the blessing of a
[39:41] borehole that was
[39:43] feeding, um, water
[39:44] to troughs in half
[39:47] of 120 paddocks
[39:49] on a rotationally
[39:50] grazing sheep farm.
[39:52] Uh, so 60 of the
[39:54] paddocks had water
[39:57] in troughs from the
[39:57] borehole and the
[39:59] other 60 paddocks,
[40:01] the sheep were
[40:02] drinking from dams.
[40:05] And after a field
[40:06] day where we,
[40:09] uh.
[40:11] Communicated with
[40:12] the spirit of
[40:12] the borehole and
[40:15] acknowledged it,
[40:16] gave it gratitude.
[40:17] Great love
[40:19] communicated
[40:20] that, uh, it was
[40:22] primarily, uh, being
[40:24] used to nurture,
[40:26] uh, the, uh, the
[40:28] mob of sheep.
[40:31] And we did a before
[40:32] and after taste
[40:32] and it was rather
[40:34] ordinary before
[40:34] we started, and
[40:35] it was rather good
[40:36] when we finished.
[40:38] But immediately
[40:39] after having done
[40:40] that, uh, the sheep
[40:43] who'd previously
[40:44] shown little or no
[40:45] preference between
[40:46] dam water and trough
[40:47] water immediately,
[40:51] uh, when let out of
[40:52] a, uh, a dam watered
[40:55] paddock, galloped
[40:57] as a mob straight
[40:58] and directly to
[40:59] the trough, up
[41:00] to 1.4 kilometers
[41:02] in some cases.
[41:02] Hmm.
[41:03] And they kept
[41:04] on doing this
[41:05] every time they
[41:06] were led into a
[41:07] trough paddock
[41:07] for six months.
[41:09] And then we got
[41:10] back to, um,
[41:14] back to the farm
[41:15] and extended the
[41:16] work and blessed
[41:17] all of dams and
[41:18] justice instantly.
[41:20] As it had started,
[41:21] the behavior stopped
[41:22] and the sheep
[41:23] no longer shed
[41:24] any preference,
[41:25] um, for trough
[41:26] over dam water.
[41:29] Um,
[41:31] that was simply
[41:32] blessing.
[41:33] Blessing.
[41:33] That was simply
[41:34] blessing the water,
[41:35] uh, which is a
[41:36] process first, the
[41:37] trough process and
[41:38] the dams, without,
[41:38] again, it's a bit
[41:39] of a thing, but
[41:40] what, what, what
[41:42] does blessing at,
[41:43] at bo look like?
[41:44] Yes.
[41:45] So the great human
[41:48] superpower is our
[41:50] capacity to direct
[41:52] loving attention.
[41:53] Mm-hmm.
[41:55] And, uh, we
[41:56] have, um.
[41:59] We have this gift of
[42:00] free will and, uh,
[42:03] we have the gift of
[42:04] being able to direct
[42:05] simple, pure love.
[42:07] And where we, when
[42:08] we combine those
[42:09] two, uh, we can
[42:11] really, uh, create
[42:12] extraordinary, uh,
[42:14] results, uh, in our
[42:16] own lives, in every,
[42:19] every sphere of
[42:20] our life, in every
[42:21] relationship that
[42:21] we have, um, as well
[42:24] as in landscape.
[42:26] And so a true
[42:29] blessing, I think
[42:30] is when we simply
[42:31] without agenda.
[42:33] Give love to
[42:33] another, uh, being,
[42:36] um, whether the
[42:38] person, plant,
[42:39] animal or place.
[42:42] And having done
[42:43] that, uh, giving
[42:45] pure an agenda, love
[42:46] allows a thing to
[42:47] be holy and fully
[42:50] and simply itself
[42:52] in its most solid
[42:53] and secure way.
[42:56] So often that's
[42:57] enough and we can
[42:59] leave it there.
[43:00] Um, and.
[43:02] Um, but once we've
[43:05] truly blessed
[43:05] a thing and
[43:06] exchange a love
[43:07] of it, it leaves
[43:08] us with a deep
[43:08] rapport, uh, and
[43:10] compassion with it.
[43:12] And that allows
[43:13] us also to have
[43:15] communication and
[43:16] conversation with
[43:17] it, either through
[43:18] direct telepathy
[43:19] or through muscle
[43:21] testing or dowsing
[43:22] or other, uh,
[43:23] practices, uh,
[43:24] pertaining and
[43:26] communicate our
[43:27] specific needs.
[43:28] So in this case,
[43:29] we were hoping that
[43:31] this water would
[43:32] become particularly.
[43:35] Uh, delicious
[43:36] and nourishing
[43:37] for sheep.
[43:39] Um, in another
[43:41] circumstance, we
[43:42] might be asking the
[43:43] water to be optimum
[43:44] for irrigating crops
[43:46] or for nurturing
[43:48] human beings, or,
[43:50] uh, for any of the
[43:51] things that we might
[43:52] need water for.
[43:54] So, a true and
[43:55] simple blessing
[43:57] is an exchange
[43:57] of unconditional
[43:58] love, but that then
[44:00] also creates the
[44:01] space for us to
[44:02] have conversation
[44:03] and communication,
[44:05] uh, for particular
[44:07] purpose, um,
[44:08] of, of the day.
[44:11] In this case, it
[44:11] was delicious.
[44:12] Sheep water,
[44:13] delicious sheep
[44:14] water, and we
[44:15] can do this at
[44:16] home, Charlie.
[44:17] And, uh, uh,
[44:19] it's been done
[44:19] many times.
[44:20] And the beautiful
[44:22] photographs of Dr.
[44:23] Moto showing the
[44:24] coherence arising
[44:27] in, uh, crystalline
[44:28] water, uh, with
[44:29] the application
[44:30] of of love.
[44:33] We can take seeds,
[44:34] uh, and germinate
[44:36] them on a couple of
[44:37] trays in the kitchen
[44:39] and give loving
[44:40] attention to one
[44:42] tray of seeds and
[44:43] the water, uh, that
[44:45] we water that with.
[44:46] And then the second
[44:47] tray of seeds,
[44:48] just water it the
[44:49] same, but give it
[44:50] no love, ignore it.
[44:53] Um, otherwise,
[44:54] and then after 10
[44:55] days, measure, uh,
[44:58] the, the germinated
[44:59] weight of the
[45:00] seeds and measure
[45:00] the roots and the
[45:01] chutes, and we
[45:02] typically see about
[45:03] a 30% germination
[45:04] difference.
[45:05] Mm-hmm.
[45:06] Um, quite
[45:07] extraordinary in
[45:10] other circumstances,
[45:11] um, on farm.
[45:13] Um, slightly
[45:14] different
[45:15] application, but
[45:15] working with, uh,
[45:17] power center of,
[45:18] of natural earth
[45:19] energies and a
[45:20] lot of intention.
[45:21] Uh, one of the farms
[45:22] that I was working
[45:23] with was included
[45:25] in a, a trial of dry
[45:27] rice growing in, uh,
[45:30] by the University
[45:31] of Vermont's
[45:32] Agricultural
[45:32] Extension Program.
[45:34] And five farms
[45:35] were involved.
[45:36] And, uh, on
[45:38] four farms, they
[45:40] achieved a 25%
[45:41] germination rate.
[45:43] And on the farm
[45:44] that what I was
[45:45] working with, uh,
[45:47] using, uh, refined
[45:48] and focused earth
[45:50] energies and, um, a
[45:53] small, simple stone
[45:54] circle and a lot of
[45:55] love and intention,
[45:56] we got a 100%
[45:58] germination rate.
[46:00] And so to move
[46:01] from 25% to 100%
[46:03] germination rate
[46:04] with love and
[46:05] intention and
[46:06] the use of subtle
[46:08] energy is clearly,
[46:09] is tremendously
[46:10] helpful, uh, summer
[46:13] unit on a farm.
[46:15] Um, but the
[46:18] application of
[46:19] of this awareness
[46:20] goes, you know, from
[46:21] farm to business to
[46:22] family to to office.
[46:25] It's, it's simply
[46:26] a universal set
[46:27] of principles
[46:29] of relationship.
[46:35] This episode of The
[46:36] Regenerative Journey
[46:37] is proudly brought
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[47:24] Let's.
[47:26] I want to go to,
[47:28] um, we talked today,
[47:31] you, you spoke today
[47:32] about intelligence
[47:33] of ev anything and
[47:35] everything that,
[47:36] anything that,
[47:37] I'm paraphrasing
[47:38] a little bit and,
[47:39] but anything that
[47:41] vibrates any, which
[47:42] everything is, has
[47:43] an intelligence as
[47:44] a, there's a innate
[47:47] intelligence and so
[47:49] if everything has
[47:51] an intelligence,
[47:53] whether it's the,
[47:54] the lamp, the rock,
[47:55] the plant, what we
[47:57] would call a living
[47:58] or a non-living
[47:58] thing, anything.
[48:00] And we talked, you
[48:01] spoke a lot about
[48:02] free will today.
[48:03] Mm-hmm.
[48:04] If something is,
[48:05] has an innate
[48:06] intelligence,
[48:08] does it also
[48:08] have free will?
[48:10] Mm. To the
[48:13] extent that it
[48:13] can exercise it?
[48:14] I think it does.
[48:16] Yeah.
[48:16] So a lamp just can't
[48:17] jump across them?
[48:19] It doesn't, it
[48:20] doesn't have an
[48:20] I'm keeping an
[48:20] eye on that one.
[48:21] Opportunity to
[48:21] move itself.
[48:22] Does it?
[48:22] No.
[48:23] Well, hang on.
[48:23] Well, well, or does
[48:25] it or does it Well,
[48:26] given the plant
[48:27] experiment, um,
[48:31] it's a bit of a deep
[48:32] question, Charlie.
[48:34] Um, I will have
[48:36] to, we can move
[48:37] it to part two,
[48:38] well catch up with
[48:39] you in Vermont.
[48:40] Um,
[48:44] uh, we can, we
[48:46] can defer, well,
[48:47] certainly, certainly
[48:49] with plants.
[48:50] Um, and, um.
[48:54] Uh, that's very
[48:56] easy, um, because
[48:58] it's, it's
[48:58] very direct and
[48:59] experiential.
[49:00] And, um, as you've
[49:04] heard now, number
[49:06] of times my favorite
[49:07] story of, uh, the
[49:10] two fields of loosen
[49:12] mm uh, side by side.
[49:15] Um, planted, same
[49:16] day, same seed,
[49:18] same operator,
[49:19] same equipment, uh,
[49:21] being mob grazed,
[49:23] uh, by a small
[49:24] herd of dairy cows.
[49:27] And, uh, going
[49:28] across in strips,
[49:30] the first field,
[49:33] everything was good.
[49:36] First strip,
[49:37] second field,
[49:38] uh, seven outta
[49:39] 20 cows, showing
[49:42] signs of bloat.
[49:45] Uh, which is, as you
[49:46] know, being a, a cow
[49:48] man is a, a lethal
[49:52] mm, uh, and rapid
[49:54] onset, uh, disease,
[49:56] um, of, uh, of cows
[49:59] based on inability
[50:01] to digest, um,
[50:05] their feed and often
[50:07] occurs on loosen.
[50:10] And so, um, uh,
[50:13] managers generally
[50:13] keep a very close
[50:14] eye on cows when
[50:15] they go into
[50:16] loosen first in
[50:17] case this happens.
[50:19] So, first, first
[50:20] field, no problem.
[50:21] Second field,
[50:23] seven added.
[50:24] 20 cows rapidly
[50:26] showing signs of
[50:27] lethal toxicity
[50:28] from, from the,
[50:30] the, from the plant.
[50:34] So cows are taken
[50:35] off the field,
[50:36] put into the barn,
[50:37] um, drenched with
[50:39] vegetable oil,
[50:40] uh, which resolved
[50:41] the problem.
[50:42] But then
[50:42] indigestible field,
[50:44] field, uh, very
[50:45] significant at the
[50:46] time in their forage
[50:47] budget, it was the
[50:48] last green feed, uh,
[50:50] that they had before
[50:51] going on to dry for
[50:53] the winter months.
[50:56] So they asked me to
[50:57] come and look at it.
[50:57] I was, I was
[50:58] nearby and came,
[51:00] uh, quickly and
[51:02] just engaged,
[51:03] uh, as we've been
[51:06] sharing, uh, with
[51:08] direct telepathic
[51:09] communication with
[51:10] the agencies of
[51:11] intelligence of
[51:13] plant and, and
[51:14] field and soil.
[51:16] And so in a
[51:17] meditative process,
[51:19] uh, quieting the
[51:20] mind, getting into
[51:22] what we'd call
[51:22] a grace space.
[51:25] And then literally
[51:26] and clearly and
[51:27] specifically bring
[51:28] into mind all the
[51:29] intelligences, uh,
[51:32] involved being the
[51:34] intelligence or
[51:35] spirit of the farm,
[51:37] of the field, of
[51:38] the soil, of the
[51:40] loosen of the cows,
[51:43] and the overlighting
[51:44] governing
[51:45] intelligence is St.
[51:46] Bridget Mm, uh, in
[51:48] the British lands
[51:50] is considered, uh,
[51:51] to be the deity
[51:52] governing the health
[51:53] of cattle and sheep.
[51:54] So, um,
[51:58] inviting those
[51:59] agencies into the
[52:00] powerful space
[52:01] of the imaginal
[52:03] realm and really
[52:05] having a round
[52:06] table conversation
[52:07] with them, and
[52:09] immediately apparent
[52:10] in that conversation
[52:11] was that the
[52:11] first field had
[52:12] recognized its, uh,
[52:14] presence and was,
[52:17] uh, cooperatively
[52:18] engaged in the
[52:18] agricultural
[52:19] rotation.
[52:22] So it was clear
[52:23] and happily
[52:24] engaged with that.
[52:26] It was planted to
[52:26] be food for cows,
[52:30] and that once it
[52:31] had been browsed, it
[52:32] would be replanted
[52:35] in rotational
[52:35] succession.
[52:37] And so its presence
[52:38] in the landscape was
[52:39] being supported and
[52:41] encouraged by its
[52:43] participation in the
[52:45] nutrition of cows.
[52:47] The second
[52:47] field hadn't got
[52:48] that messaging.
[52:49] Somehow thought
[52:50] that it was wild
[52:52] crop and that
[52:53] these were random
[52:54] feral predators
[52:55] that had moved in.
[52:57] And had mobilized,
[52:59] uh, deliberately
[53:00] and at this
[53:01] discretion, the
[53:01] so-called secondary
[53:02] metabolites, uh,
[53:05] which are the
[53:05] library of phenols,
[53:07] tannins, and other
[53:08] substances that
[53:09] plants, uh, uh,
[53:12] rapidly, uh, create
[53:14] and put into leaf
[53:15] and shoot and
[53:16] root in order to
[53:18] make themselves
[53:19] unpalatable
[53:20] and digestible.
[53:21] In this case,
[53:22] leastly toxic to the
[53:24] aphid, the locust.
[53:26] Um.
[53:28] The pest or,
[53:28] or, or the, um,
[53:30] predatorial.
[53:31] Herbivore.
[53:32] Mm. And so in
[53:35] the imaginal,
[53:36] meditative,
[53:36] communicative space,
[53:38] discussed this
[53:39] with the plants,
[53:40] with the soil, with
[53:41] the, um, paddock.
[53:43] And once they were
[53:44] clear, uh, they were
[53:46] happy to support
[53:47] the agricultural
[53:48] process and we left
[53:51] it for 12 hours.
[53:52] And then, um.
[53:55] John farming there,
[53:57] uh, put the cows
[53:57] back into the field
[53:59] and sure enough,
[53:59] they were able to
[54:00] graze, uh, over
[54:02] the next week, uh,
[54:03] the whole of the
[54:04] field without any
[54:05] mm uh, further, uh,
[54:07] instant or injury.
[54:09] And so many stories
[54:11] subsequently.
[54:12] But that one's
[54:12] quite elegant and
[54:13] beautiful 'cause
[54:14] it lets us know.
[54:15] I sat in meditation
[54:17] and communicated
[54:18] in the space of
[54:19] the imagination.
[54:21] The plants heard
[54:23] me, understood me,
[54:26] had the capacity
[54:27] to change and bless
[54:30] them, chose to do so
[54:32] to our convenience.
[54:34] Corpor Corporation.
[54:36] Yeah.
[54:36] And um.
[54:40] The depth of awe
[54:42] and gratitude that
[54:43] arises from that,
[54:44] um, is infinite.
[54:47] Uh, just realizing
[54:49] that nature can
[54:50] truly support us and
[54:52] if we respectfully,
[54:54] humbly ask for that,
[54:56] uh, it happens.
[54:58] And it also, Charlie
[54:59] left me with a
[55:00] deep awareness of
[55:01] that plants can
[55:02] deliberately make
[55:03] themselves toxic.
[55:04] Mm. Uh, if they
[55:05] don't recognize.
[55:08] Um, and aren't
[55:09] communicated with,
[55:11] um, by ourselves.
[55:15] And I think
[55:16] historically, go
[55:18] back, you know, two,
[55:19] 300 years, uh, we
[55:22] were in constant
[55:23] communication with
[55:23] landscape and our
[55:25] farming was called
[55:26] husbandry, which
[55:27] is speaking to the
[55:29] intimate emotional
[55:31] communication and
[55:33] relationship between
[55:34] farmer and land.
[55:35] And now over the
[55:37] last a hundred
[55:38] years, we've
[55:38] been practicing
[55:39] agricultural
[55:40] science, which is
[55:42] objectifying and
[55:43] disconnecting from,
[55:45] uh, the sentient
[55:46] of the plants.
[55:48] And even to
[55:49] some degree,
[55:50] the animals that
[55:50] were stewarding.
[55:53] And, uh, I think
[55:55] under those
[55:55] circumstances, the
[55:56] plants are literally
[55:59] making themselves
[56:00] toxic because they
[56:02] experience us as
[56:04] feral predators.
[56:06] And the
[56:06] extraordinary
[56:07] increase in,
[56:09] uh, allergies
[56:10] and, uh, food
[56:11] toxicity, I think
[56:14] is, uh, perhaps
[56:16] substantially
[56:17] generated by our no
[56:20] longer communicating
[56:22] with the plants, uh,
[56:25] in, in the field.
[56:27] And that's just
[56:27] obviously a natural
[56:28] defense mechanism
[56:29] that we can't
[56:31] blame them for, for
[56:32] using, for utilizing
[56:33] absolutely.
[56:33] Their natural
[56:34] thing to do.
[56:35] And if we haven't,
[56:35] as you have done,
[56:36] and you, you
[56:37] know, we talked
[56:37] about today and
[56:38] you've done work
[56:39] on a number of
[56:42] landscapes that we
[56:43] are stewarding, um.
[56:46] You inform because
[56:48] I hadn't, you
[56:50] know, the, the
[56:51] new situation and
[56:52] sometimes those
[56:53] situations are
[56:55] new, as in a new
[56:57] owner of land
[56:58] and a new purpose
[56:59] for that land.
[57:00] And in some
[57:01] situations
[57:01] it was, um.
[57:04] Going as far back
[57:06] to say that, you
[57:08] know, the whiteys
[57:10] are here and
[57:11] there's no, there
[57:14] are now boundaries
[57:15] and there's new
[57:16] intention, a
[57:17] new, you know,
[57:18] agricultural
[57:18] practice.
[57:19] And that's kind
[57:20] of a new, um,
[57:23] management practice
[57:24] of landscape as
[57:25] opposed to them
[57:27] the landscape not
[57:27] having boundaries,
[57:29] being looked after
[57:30] and managed by, you
[57:31] know, indigenous,
[57:32] the indigenous
[57:33] brothers and
[57:34] sisters of ours.
[57:35] And that they
[57:36] still thinking
[57:37] that was what was
[57:39] happening to them.
[57:40] Um, you know, that,
[57:41] that place of Byron
[57:42] Bay that you went to
[57:44] some years ago, that
[57:44] was a great example
[57:46] of letting them know
[57:47] that things are a
[57:48] little different
[57:49] now and that, you
[57:50] know, but that was
[57:50] okay, you know,
[57:52] not to be fearful.
[57:53] Not that that was,
[57:55] um, just a new.
[57:57] I mean, probably not
[57:58] a set of rules, but
[57:58] a new environment,
[58:00] um, and a new
[58:02] framework for their
[58:04] f for I guess the
[58:06] nature spirit, the
[58:07] spirit of place to,
[58:09] um, exist in, you
[58:11] know, and you had
[58:12] the chat and you,
[58:14] um, enroll them to
[58:15] the idea that things
[58:16] that there were now
[58:17] boundaries, which
[58:18] is fascinating.
[58:19] I just love the,
[58:21] uh, it, it's a,
[58:22] it's a real pity
[58:23] that, you know,
[58:24] more people don't
[58:25] have that skill.
[58:26] 'cause not
[58:26] many people do
[58:27] unless they've,
[58:28] any of course.
[58:29] Um, that there
[58:31] must be so
[58:31] much landscape.
[58:33] I mean, just,
[58:34] you know, in
[58:34] Australia, let's
[58:35] just stay there.
[58:36] That is confused
[58:39] with this new
[58:41] domesticated
[58:42] sheep and cattle,
[58:42] what are they?
[58:43] The plow, the fence
[58:45] line, the dwelling,
[58:48] the well, the, um,
[58:50] the road, you know,
[58:52] that all this, this
[58:54] disturbance that it
[58:55] is still trying to
[58:56] come to terms with
[58:57] and no wonder that
[58:59] it's not, you know,
[59:02] you could argue that
[59:02] it's not cooperating
[59:04] and you don't, you
[59:05] can't blame it for
[59:05] that, could you?
[59:07] It's a total
[59:08] disturbance
[59:08] of everything.
[59:09] It knows, I
[59:10] think, I think
[59:11] as you describe,
[59:12] um, uh, it's a
[59:14] disorientation.
[59:16] Mm. Um,
[59:20] uh, often I think of
[59:22] my role as being a
[59:24] marriage counselor.
[59:26] Uh, I mediating the
[59:28] relationship between
[59:29] people and place,
[59:31] which I think is.
[59:33] Truly one of the
[59:34] most intimate
[59:35] relationships
[59:35] that we have.
[59:37] And, um,
[59:41] uh, same rules as,
[59:42] as marriage apply.
[59:44] Uh, we want dignity,
[59:46] respect, love,
[59:47] care, uh, and clear
[59:50] communication.
[59:52] And, um,
[59:56] a landscape, uh,
[59:57] has huge longevity.
[1:00:01] It has psychic
[1:00:01] mass and inertia.
[1:00:03] And, uh, it will
[1:00:05] continue to,
[1:00:07] uh, hold the
[1:00:09] memory of the
[1:00:10] last conversation
[1:00:11] that it had.
[1:00:13] And in Europe, uh,
[1:00:15] we had six and a
[1:00:16] half thousand years
[1:00:17] of, uh, sustainable
[1:00:19] agriculture.
[1:00:20] And that was very
[1:00:20] much based on, uh,
[1:00:24] the quarter and
[1:00:24] cross quarterly.
[1:00:26] Um.
[1:00:28] Uh, festivals
[1:00:30] of landscape
[1:00:31] connection,
[1:00:31] communication,
[1:00:33] um, where we, uh,
[1:00:35] very consciously
[1:00:36] as a community,
[1:00:38] um, feasted
[1:00:39] communicated,
[1:00:40] blessed, talked to
[1:00:42] the nature spirits,
[1:00:44] um, blessing
[1:00:45] of the wells.
[1:00:48] Blessing of the
[1:00:48] fields, blessing of
[1:00:49] the crops, blessing
[1:00:50] of the harvest,
[1:00:51] blessing of the
[1:00:51] plow, uh, the, uh,
[1:00:56] communication
[1:00:57] with the weather,
[1:00:58] um, with the, the
[1:01:01] plants and animals.
[1:01:03] And so always,
[1:01:06] it was normal to
[1:01:08] be in constant
[1:01:11] and repeated
[1:01:11] communication to
[1:01:12] make sure that the
[1:01:14] landscape knew what
[1:01:15] we were up to, and
[1:01:16] we knew what the
[1:01:16] landscape was up to.
[1:01:18] It's, it's,
[1:01:18] it's a. Dialogue
[1:01:20] between, you know,
[1:01:21] management agencies.
[1:01:23] Um, and so if,
[1:01:26] if you don't do
[1:01:27] that, then it's
[1:01:28] like, you know,
[1:01:31] having staff that
[1:01:32] you never talk to
[1:01:33] and being surprised
[1:01:34] when they don't
[1:01:36] know what to do.
[1:01:38] Um, so we think
[1:01:41] of, you know, the,
[1:01:42] the relationship
[1:01:43] with place as
[1:01:46] historically
[1:01:46] being aboriginal,
[1:01:48] which indeed it
[1:01:48] is, but it's also
[1:01:50] been universal.
[1:01:52] And whoever is
[1:01:53] on the land today
[1:01:54] needs to talk to
[1:01:55] the land today.
[1:01:57] Um, because if
[1:01:59] he doesn't know
[1:01:59] who's here and
[1:02:00] what's happening,
[1:02:03] it can't, um,
[1:02:07] respond and it
[1:02:08] can't communicate
[1:02:10] back and let us
[1:02:10] know its needs,
[1:02:13] uh, to support.
[1:02:17] Health and
[1:02:17] sustainability
[1:02:18] for soil and plant
[1:02:21] and, and animal.
[1:02:23] So it's very
[1:02:23] two-way process.
[1:02:25] Mm-hmm.
[1:02:25] Um, it needs us to
[1:02:29] be in relationship
[1:02:29] with it as much
[1:02:31] as we need it to
[1:02:32] be in relationship
[1:02:34] with us.
[1:02:35] And nothing more
[1:02:36] natural, nothing
[1:02:37] more simple, nothing
[1:02:37] more joyful, and,
[1:02:40] um, yeah, just
[1:02:42] extraordinary
[1:02:43] results that we
[1:02:43] can get when,
[1:02:44] when we do that.
[1:02:46] I wanna get back
[1:02:47] to you, Patrick.
[1:02:48] Um, you had
[1:02:50] a birthday
[1:02:50] yesterday and.
[1:02:53] I haven't done the
[1:02:54] maths 58 that time.
[1:02:57] 58. No, that's
[1:02:58] got that, but how
[1:02:58] many, how many?
[1:02:59] Lots of
[1:02:59] sevens in 58.
[1:03:01] Oh.
[1:03:01] Uh, where are you up
[1:03:02] to on that sky set?
[1:03:03] I mean that in
[1:03:04] Saturn return?
[1:03:05] Yep.
[1:03:06] Yes.
[1:03:06] So, um, uh, 28 56.
[1:03:10] Um, how many
[1:03:12] sevens is that?
[1:03:15] Seven sevens and 49?
[1:03:16] Yes.
[1:03:17] Eight.
[1:03:17] No.
[1:03:18] Is that right?
[1:03:18] Eight, seven.
[1:03:19] No, I can't
[1:03:20] be right.
[1:03:20] Seven sevens
[1:03:21] are not 49.
[1:03:22] Someone's gonna
[1:03:22] foggy for that one.
[1:03:23] Are they?
[1:03:23] Uh, I think so.
[1:03:24] My times tables.
[1:03:26] So you, you, yeah.
[1:03:27] See, but you know
[1:03:27] what, you know in
[1:03:28] the Saturn return,
[1:03:30] Saturn return I
[1:03:31] think is hitting
[1:03:31] in sort of Yeah.
[1:03:34] You got a few to go.
[1:03:35] You've got six.
[1:03:37] Tell me, um, um,
[1:03:39] you may not have had
[1:03:40] time to think about
[1:03:40] it 'cause it was, it
[1:03:41] was only yesterday
[1:03:42] and you've been
[1:03:43] up to your elbows
[1:03:44] with, with course.
[1:03:45] Where, where, where
[1:03:47] does that put you
[1:03:48] apart from, you
[1:03:49] know, sat in return.
[1:03:50] But what does
[1:03:51] that mean for you?
[1:03:52] Is it, is it, is it,
[1:03:53] what period of your
[1:03:54] life are you in now?
[1:03:56] Is is there a
[1:03:57] new chapter?
[1:03:58] What, what
[1:03:59] chapter do you
[1:04:00] think you are in?
[1:04:00] And are you, are
[1:04:01] you in the chapter
[1:04:04] you think you need
[1:04:04] to be in right now?
[1:04:06] Hmm.
[1:04:06] Great question,
[1:04:07] Charlie.
[1:04:10] I should have given
[1:04:10] an hour on notice.
[1:04:11] No, no.
[1:04:12] Well, second Saturn
[1:04:13] return does get
[1:04:14] your attention.
[1:04:16] Um, uh, it
[1:04:20] seems that, um,
[1:04:25] it seems that my
[1:04:25] work is being, uh,
[1:04:28] very fully embraced
[1:04:29] and supported, um,
[1:04:32] as never before.
[1:04:33] Um, uh, we mentioned
[1:04:37] at the beginning,
[1:04:37] um, the, the
[1:04:40] creation of, of
[1:04:41] this nonprofit
[1:04:42] here in Australia,
[1:04:44] quantum Leap, subtle
[1:04:45] Energy, which is
[1:04:46] totally dedicated
[1:04:47] to expanding and
[1:04:49] supporting the,
[1:04:50] the knowledge
[1:04:51] and the practice.
[1:04:52] Um, and, uh, far
[1:04:55] beyond, uh, what I'm
[1:04:56] bringing, but um,
[1:04:59] sort of originally
[1:05:00] initiated through.
[1:05:02] Um, through the
[1:05:04] work that I brought.
[1:05:06] And so it's
[1:05:07] thrilling to
[1:05:08] see just such
[1:05:09] a deepening and
[1:05:11] broadening and
[1:05:12] expansion of
[1:05:13] the support and
[1:05:14] sharing of the
[1:05:16] simple, natural,
[1:05:17] authentic practices.
[1:05:20] And the same
[1:05:21] thing's happening
[1:05:22] to me in the uk.
[1:05:23] I've now moved
[1:05:25] from being, uh,
[1:05:28] rather solitary
[1:05:29] practitioner to
[1:05:30] being tremendously
[1:05:31] supported by,
[1:05:33] uh, two, three
[1:05:34] organizations there
[1:05:35] that are hosting
[1:05:36] the work and,
[1:05:37] uh, extending it
[1:05:39] and spanning it
[1:05:40] and bringing it,
[1:05:41] uh, open to other
[1:05:42] practitioners and
[1:05:43] teachers as well
[1:05:44] as myself and, uh,
[1:05:46] in, in the US also.
[1:05:48] Um.
[1:05:50] Uh, a lot of support
[1:05:51] for the work.
[1:05:52] So, um, looks like I
[1:05:55] get to keep on doing
[1:05:56] what I'm doing.
[1:05:57] Mm-hmm.
[1:05:57] Um, but with more
[1:05:59] support and moving
[1:06:01] a bit slower, um,
[1:06:04] spending more time,
[1:06:05] uh, which is nice,
[1:06:06] not having to move
[1:06:07] quite so fast, not
[1:06:09] quite so frantic,
[1:06:10] so sort of deepening
[1:06:13] and, uh, expanding
[1:06:14] of, of what
[1:06:15] I've been doing.
[1:06:16] It's really, it's
[1:06:17] really very lovely.
[1:06:18] Are you encouraged
[1:06:19] by all that?
[1:06:20] Tremendously?
[1:06:20] Yeah.
[1:06:21] No, I, I enjoy the
[1:06:23] work that I do.
[1:06:24] It's, it's work that
[1:06:25] I chose to do that
[1:06:26] I felt called to do.
[1:06:28] It's incredibly
[1:06:29] rewarding and joyous
[1:06:31] and to see it, um.
[1:06:34] Rippling and also
[1:06:36] to feel, uh, that
[1:06:37] I'm definitely just
[1:06:38] a small part of a
[1:06:39] massive groundswell
[1:06:41] of emerging
[1:06:43] consciousness
[1:06:43] that you are so
[1:06:45] connected to and
[1:06:46] representative of
[1:06:49] the expansion of
[1:06:50] all regenerative
[1:06:51] practices, of
[1:06:51] biodynamics, of
[1:06:54] holistic thinking
[1:06:55] and community work.
[1:06:56] Um, I think probably
[1:06:58] more than anybody
[1:06:59] in this country.
[1:07:00] Charlie, you're
[1:07:00] connected to all
[1:07:03] the things that I'm
[1:07:04] a small part of.
[1:07:05] And just seeing how
[1:07:08] that emergence of
[1:07:09] consciousness and,
[1:07:10] and practice and
[1:07:11] the restoration of
[1:07:12] relationship with
[1:07:14] community and,
[1:07:15] and land is, is
[1:07:16] just thrilling to
[1:07:17] be part of that.
[1:07:18] And tell us about,
[1:07:20] um, quantumly
[1:07:22] subtle energy then
[1:07:23] the, the, I did,
[1:07:24] as we mentioned
[1:07:24] earlier, I spoke
[1:07:25] with Gary about it,
[1:07:26] but I guess that's.
[1:07:28] Great support,
[1:07:29] um, organization
[1:07:30] for you here.
[1:07:31] And I, you know,
[1:07:32] obviously started
[1:07:33] with Terry Koska
[1:07:35] and RCS and really
[1:07:35] got, got some runway
[1:07:37] there with those
[1:07:38] guys and it sort
[1:07:39] of matured or got
[1:07:40] to a point where
[1:07:41] it sort of deserved
[1:07:42] its own little,
[1:07:43] little thing.
[1:07:44] But it's, it's,
[1:07:44] um, it's, it's,
[1:07:47] there's a, in the,
[1:07:48] the course we're at
[1:07:49] and the, the, the,
[1:07:51] I won't call it a
[1:07:51] textbook, but the,
[1:07:52] um, the manual, I
[1:07:53] guess, you know,
[1:07:54] the development is
[1:07:55] really solidifying.
[1:07:57] Um.
[1:07:58] The practices and
[1:07:59] the community.
[1:08:01] That's, um, is there
[1:08:02] anything you wanna
[1:08:03] sort of add to that,
[1:08:04] um, so that people
[1:08:06] understand that,
[1:08:07] you know, there's
[1:08:08] a support group
[1:08:09] here in Australia.
[1:08:09] They don't have
[1:08:10] to wait for you
[1:08:10] to turn up every
[1:08:11] party six months.
[1:08:12] No, absolutely.
[1:08:14] Um, no, uh, Terry,
[1:08:16] uh, Ker as you, as
[1:08:17] you mentioned, and,
[1:08:18] um, senior members
[1:08:20] of, of resource
[1:08:22] consulting services
[1:08:23] of RCS, uh, back
[1:08:26] in 2010, recognized
[1:08:27] that the importance
[1:08:30] of bringing this
[1:08:32] work, uh, centrally
[1:08:33] into regenerative
[1:08:34] practices and
[1:08:36] I think really
[1:08:37] went, went a long
[1:08:39] way out and very
[1:08:41] courageously brought
[1:08:42] it into the menu
[1:08:42] of, of offerings,
[1:08:45] uh, alongside of
[1:08:47] mob grazing and,
[1:08:48] uh, pasture cropping
[1:08:50] and low stress,
[1:08:51] stock handling,
[1:08:52] and all of, all
[1:08:53] of the things
[1:08:54] that they, uh.
[1:08:57] Uh, supported
[1:08:58] and, and helped
[1:08:59] come to public
[1:09:00] attention and really
[1:09:03] normalizing it in
[1:09:05] the agricultural
[1:09:06] community, uh,
[1:09:08] as just something
[1:09:08] that one did
[1:09:09] not something
[1:09:10] extraordinary
[1:09:10] or unusual, but
[1:09:12] just, uh, the next
[1:09:15] training to take
[1:09:16] for, for people
[1:09:17] managing land.
[1:09:19] Um, and so as time
[1:09:22] has gone on, uh,
[1:09:23] I think we've had
[1:09:24] about 500 people
[1:09:25] coming through.
[1:09:26] Mm-hmm.
[1:09:28] Uh, the trainings
[1:09:29] and applying
[1:09:30] it at home.
[1:09:31] And
[1:09:34] I've personally
[1:09:35] been on close
[1:09:37] to 250 farms.
[1:09:40] Uh, and during that
[1:09:41] time, we've, uh,
[1:09:43] trained up, uh,
[1:09:44] for colleagues,
[1:09:46] uh, practitioners.
[1:09:47] Yeah.
[1:09:47] So we've What, Jim?
[1:09:49] Jim Green?
[1:09:50] Yes.
[1:09:50] Gary, Gary Kim,
[1:09:51] Deb, Kim McBride.
[1:09:54] So we've got four,
[1:09:56] uh, practitioners in
[1:09:58] the field now, uh,
[1:09:59] doing the work and
[1:10:00] starting to teach.
[1:10:02] Um, and our agenda
[1:10:03] is to rapidly
[1:10:04] expand our, uh,
[1:10:09] opportunities for
[1:10:10] people to, uh,
[1:10:13] get up to speed as
[1:10:14] practitioners and
[1:10:15] start sharing the
[1:10:16] work themselves.
[1:10:16] So, uh, very
[1:10:18] exciting.
[1:10:18] We've sort of
[1:10:19] reached a, a
[1:10:20] threshold where
[1:10:21] we can, I think,
[1:10:22] exponentially
[1:10:23] grow and share.
[1:10:25] Um, uh, very
[1:10:27] much supported by
[1:10:28] marvelous advisory
[1:10:30] Board and, uh, huge
[1:10:32] support from people
[1:10:33] who've, who've
[1:10:33] taken the trainings
[1:10:34] and like yourself
[1:10:36] come back and
[1:10:37] wanting to share,
[1:10:38] share them with,
[1:10:39] with the public.
[1:10:42] So our agenda
[1:10:43] is to present.
[1:10:46] This work in
[1:10:47] the most simple,
[1:10:48] authentic, natural
[1:10:50] way so that people
[1:10:51] can take it and use
[1:10:53] it for themselves
[1:10:54] at home, in their
[1:10:55] families, in
[1:10:56] their communities,
[1:10:58] at work, in the
[1:10:58] office, on the
[1:10:59] farm, if they're
[1:11:00] in agriculture.
[1:11:02] Um, but just
[1:11:04] keep it simple.
[1:11:05] Let it be helpful,
[1:11:06] let it be normal and
[1:11:07] let it ultimately
[1:11:08] speak for itself.
[1:11:11] One last question,
[1:11:12] 'cause I'm
[1:11:12] conscious of time.
[1:11:12] We've got, we've
[1:11:13] got steaks,
[1:11:14] you've ordered
[1:11:14] the peppercorn,
[1:11:15] the whatever,
[1:11:16] whatever, whatever.
[1:11:17] Steak with
[1:11:18] peppercorn.
[1:11:18] I've got whatever
[1:11:19] steak there
[1:11:19] is with Diane.
[1:11:21] Could be T-bone,
[1:11:22] could be scotch.
[1:11:23] We'll find out,
[1:11:24] we'll find out.
[1:11:24] Um, Patrick, one
[1:11:26] last question.
[1:11:27] Um, what has been
[1:11:30] your, we haven't
[1:11:30] touched on in little
[1:11:32] chit chat today,
[1:11:33] but you, you, you've
[1:11:34] sort of touched
[1:11:34] on quickly in the
[1:11:37] last two days,
[1:11:38] and I know there's
[1:11:39] probably more.
[1:11:40] Tomorrow.
[1:11:42] What has been the
[1:11:43] most, um, hair
[1:11:45] raising, if you
[1:11:48] are, if you're
[1:11:49] happy to speak
[1:11:49] about it, in a big,
[1:11:50] big spooky house
[1:11:51] like this, the most
[1:11:52] hair raising, um,
[1:11:56] experience you've
[1:11:57] had where you've had
[1:11:58] to move on a, um,
[1:12:04] an entity or a, or
[1:12:05] a poltergeist or a
[1:12:07] a, um, a lost soul.
[1:12:09] Are you going to
[1:12:10] talk about, we don't
[1:12:11] have to, maybe it's,
[1:12:13] maybe don't tell us
[1:12:14] about the, the, the
[1:12:14] most hair raising,
[1:12:15] maybe the, if that's
[1:12:16] two hair raising
[1:12:17] to even contemplate
[1:12:19] again, I dunno.
[1:12:20] Given that you said
[1:12:21] today, you said
[1:12:22] you'd think you'd,
[1:12:23] you'd probably
[1:12:24] mo help move on.
[1:12:26] Some thousands of
[1:12:27] it's become spirits.
[1:12:28] It was the one
[1:12:29] part of the work
[1:12:30] that I didn't wanna
[1:12:30] do when I started
[1:12:31] Charlie, really?
[1:12:32] And I discovered it
[1:12:33] was a part of the
[1:12:35] work in demand work
[1:12:35] that I absolutely
[1:12:36] had to do.
[1:12:36] 'cause I couldn't
[1:12:37] get houses right
[1:12:39] and landscapes
[1:12:40] clear without
[1:12:41] attending to that.
[1:12:42] And so,
[1:12:43] yeah, it was,
[1:12:45] it was an
[1:12:46] inevitable part
[1:12:47] of the job scope.
[1:12:48] Uh, the so-called
[1:12:49] spirit release of
[1:12:50] Earthbound souls who
[1:12:52] are really just folk
[1:12:52] like you and me, who
[1:12:55] at point of death
[1:12:56] for whatever reason.
[1:12:58] Of confusion,
[1:12:59] disorientation,
[1:13:00] attachment or
[1:13:01] fear, um, didn't,
[1:13:05] didn't transition
[1:13:05] fully into the
[1:13:06] heaven realm and,
[1:13:08] um, stayed, uh,
[1:13:10] around the, uh,
[1:13:11] the earthly realm.
[1:13:13] Um, and so the
[1:13:16] process is a very
[1:13:17] gentle, respectful
[1:13:18] one, not of sending
[1:13:19] away but of.
[1:13:21] Uh, facilitating
[1:13:22] a return home.
[1:13:24] And so we surround
[1:13:25] them with love and
[1:13:26] we create a bridge
[1:13:27] between heaven
[1:13:28] and earth held by
[1:13:30] a celestial being
[1:13:31] called a psychopomp,
[1:13:32] whose job purpose
[1:13:34] includes safe
[1:13:36] transition for us
[1:13:37] between realms.
[1:13:38] And then we invite
[1:13:38] the most loved and
[1:13:39] trusted members
[1:13:41] of friends and
[1:13:42] family group in
[1:13:43] the heaven round
[1:13:44] to come meet and
[1:13:46] greet and take him
[1:13:47] home to best party
[1:13:49] ever where all the
[1:13:50] drinks were on God.
[1:13:52] Um, so very loving
[1:13:53] and respectful.
[1:13:55] Um, and when
[1:13:56] done in a very
[1:13:57] gentle and loving
[1:13:58] and respectful
[1:13:58] way, there's
[1:13:59] not generally
[1:13:59] much resistance.
[1:14:01] Mm-hmm.
[1:14:02] Um, uh, some
[1:14:05] ghosts are a
[1:14:06] bit territorial.
[1:14:08] Um, uh, some
[1:14:11] ghosts are, are
[1:14:12] fearful and, and
[1:14:13] therefore, uh,
[1:14:14] can be aggressive.
[1:14:16] Um, and, um,
[1:14:20] sometimes they're
[1:14:21] muddled up in
[1:14:22] battlefield sites
[1:14:23] or massacre sites
[1:14:25] and have been
[1:14:26] around for a long
[1:14:26] time, so they need
[1:14:28] rather gentle and
[1:14:29] careful handling.
[1:14:31] Um, but for the
[1:14:32] most part, if,
[1:14:33] if, if we approach
[1:14:34] 'em with dignity
[1:14:36] and respect and,
[1:14:37] um, then things,
[1:14:40] uh, transition in
[1:14:41] a fairly peaceful
[1:14:42] and gentle way.
[1:14:43] So we don't like to
[1:14:45] provoke, uh, strong
[1:14:47] reactions and if
[1:14:49] we do, we know we
[1:14:50] haven't done it.
[1:14:50] Right.
[1:14:52] And, and what is it
[1:14:53] about their presence
[1:14:55] on a farm or a, I
[1:14:56] mean, if you are,
[1:14:57] you are, you are
[1:14:57] taken to a farm
[1:14:58] to do a general.
[1:15:01] Check over and you
[1:15:03] know, there might
[1:15:04] be some, the farmer
[1:15:05] might say, look,
[1:15:06] I'm, I've, I need
[1:15:07] some blessings done
[1:15:07] and I need some,
[1:15:09] you know, things are
[1:15:10] a bit off and, you
[1:15:12] know, I don't know
[1:15:13] whether they need
[1:15:13] more phosphorus or
[1:15:14] I, I don't know.
[1:15:15] You know, like
[1:15:15] there's lots of
[1:15:16] reasons why I guess
[1:15:17] someone would,
[1:15:17] might engage you
[1:15:18] to come to a farm.
[1:15:19] What, what is the,
[1:15:20] um, what's the thing
[1:15:22] about having a, um,
[1:15:24] a spirit who's still
[1:15:25] around that that
[1:15:26] is, that is, I mean,
[1:15:30] that is necessary
[1:15:31] to have them gone
[1:15:32] to then cleanse
[1:15:33] the whole place.
[1:15:34] Is it, is it just.
[1:15:36] Not the bad apple,
[1:15:37] but is it just
[1:15:38] like you can't
[1:15:39] do it without
[1:15:39] fixing everything?
[1:15:40] Or is it if they
[1:15:41] stay, they can undo
[1:15:42] what you've done?
[1:15:43] Or what, what's the
[1:15:44] sort of, I mean, do
[1:15:46] some, do we need to
[1:15:48] get rid of them all?
[1:15:49] If they're not
[1:15:50] causing trouble,
[1:15:51] is it, is it in
[1:15:52] their best interest?
[1:15:53] Are we doing them a
[1:15:53] favor and ultimately
[1:15:55] to get rid of them?
[1:15:56] These, these, these
[1:15:57] are absolutely
[1:15:57] essential questions.
[1:15:59] Um, so, um.
[1:16:04] Uh, firstly, I
[1:16:06] think we have a duty
[1:16:07] of care to them.
[1:16:08] Mm. And, um, if
[1:16:10] they're in an
[1:16:12] earthbound state, it
[1:16:13] means they're stuck
[1:16:15] and, uh, they're
[1:16:17] in a sort of state
[1:16:18] of arrested, uh,
[1:16:20] delayed development
[1:16:22] 'cause they can't be
[1:16:23] fully self-expressed
[1:16:24] while they're still
[1:16:25] attached to their
[1:16:26] previous life.
[1:16:28] Um, the natural
[1:16:29] process for us is
[1:16:30] a closure of life
[1:16:31] to, uh, restore
[1:16:33] return to soul,
[1:16:35] family heaven
[1:16:35] realm, review,
[1:16:38] uh, and take, uh,
[1:16:40] full learning and
[1:16:41] wisdom from the
[1:16:42] life we've had.
[1:16:44] And then, um, from
[1:16:46] that space move on
[1:16:47] either to another
[1:16:48] incarnation or,
[1:16:49] or to some other,
[1:16:51] uh, business that
[1:16:52] the soul has.
[1:16:53] So, um, the natural
[1:16:56] flow of things is,
[1:16:57] is for us to move
[1:16:58] in and outta lives.
[1:17:01] Um, and, um,
[1:17:05] so if, if, if
[1:17:06] we're stuck,
[1:17:07] it's considered a
[1:17:08] pathology of death
[1:17:09] and we're, we're
[1:17:10] facilitating a
[1:17:11] midwifing of the
[1:17:12] soul back into
[1:17:13] heaven, just as we
[1:17:14] would midwife the
[1:17:15] soul into, into
[1:17:17] human, human life.
[1:17:20] So I think first and
[1:17:22] foremost it's, it's
[1:17:23] our duty of care.
[1:17:24] And you and I
[1:17:25] wouldn't wanna
[1:17:25] get stuck on the
[1:17:26] street 'cause we
[1:17:26] missed the bus.
[1:17:28] Uh, and we'd hope
[1:17:29] somebody would
[1:17:29] spot us and.
[1:17:31] Call us a taxi.
[1:17:34] So first for
[1:17:35] them and then
[1:17:36] in terms of, uh,
[1:17:38] their presence,
[1:17:40] um, because their
[1:17:42] mind is still
[1:17:44] engaged with the
[1:17:45] circumstances of
[1:17:46] their own life,
[1:17:47] they'll tend to
[1:17:48] hold the creativity
[1:17:50] and life energy
[1:17:51] of a place back.
[1:17:53] Um, and their
[1:17:54] agendas will still
[1:17:56] be present, um, and
[1:17:59] engaged and active.
[1:18:00] They may seek
[1:18:00] to, um, put
[1:18:03] thoughts into our
[1:18:04] mind to organize
[1:18:05] circumstances as
[1:18:07] they believe best.
[1:18:08] But once they're
[1:18:10] free and clear and
[1:18:10] in heaven, then
[1:18:11] they can truly be
[1:18:12] our best guides
[1:18:14] and advisors and
[1:18:15] our friends in,
[1:18:16] in high places.
[1:18:17] 'cause with that
[1:18:18] perspective, they
[1:18:19] can support our,
[1:18:21] uh, lives rather
[1:18:23] than trying to
[1:18:24] fulfill their
[1:18:26] lives through us.
[1:18:28] So they can distort
[1:18:30] agenda, hold a place
[1:18:31] back, lock down
[1:18:33] creativity, and um,
[1:18:38] um, be mischievous
[1:18:39] too, I guess
[1:18:41] depending on, on
[1:18:42] their personality.
[1:18:43] Mm-hmm.
[1:18:43] Um,
[1:18:46] it's, there are
[1:18:49] happy or peaceful
[1:18:50] ghosts, but, um,
[1:18:52] uh, ignorance
[1:18:53] can be bliss, but
[1:18:54] it's not that kind
[1:18:55] of bliss that we
[1:18:56] want, I think.
[1:18:58] Mm-hmm.
[1:18:58] Yeah.
[1:18:59] So generally we,
[1:19:00] we seek to, uh,
[1:19:02] connect, engage,
[1:19:03] uh, and lovingly,
[1:19:05] uh, as we would
[1:19:07] with our kids,
[1:19:08] with our friends,
[1:19:10] uh, support their
[1:19:11] life and afterlife
[1:19:13] processes being,
[1:19:14] um, uh, fruitful
[1:19:16] and fulfilling
[1:19:17] and engaged.
[1:19:18] Mm. Because they,
[1:19:19] they can't re
[1:19:20] reincarnate if
[1:19:21] this, they haven't
[1:19:22] got to the next,
[1:19:23] that's right.
[1:19:24] The next bit.
[1:19:24] You're, you're,
[1:19:25] it's, it's, it's,
[1:19:26] it's an arresting
[1:19:27] in time and space
[1:19:28] and very frustrating
[1:19:30] for them because
[1:19:31] they don't have a
[1:19:32] body to engage in
[1:19:34] physical realm,
[1:19:35] but they're still
[1:19:36] in physical realm.
[1:19:37] Mm. So it's a sort
[1:19:37] of disempowered,
[1:19:38] disengaged.
[1:19:40] Um, rather
[1:19:42] unsatisfactory
[1:19:43] state to be in.
[1:19:43] I think well talk
[1:19:46] about physical,
[1:19:46] real and un
[1:19:47] unsatisfactory
[1:19:48] states.
[1:19:48] We must get
[1:19:49] to our stakes.
[1:19:52] What do you reckon?
[1:19:53] That would be great.
[1:19:54] That's been awesome.
[1:19:54] We've fronted a
[1:19:55] little bit over
[1:19:55] time, Patrick.
[1:19:57] I can't, I've been
[1:19:58] waiting years to
[1:19:59] do this and I'm not
[1:20:01] dissatisfied, but I
[1:20:03] do feel the need to
[1:20:04] catch up with you
[1:20:05] again in Vermont or
[1:20:08] Edinburgh, anywhere
[1:20:09] you care to.
[1:20:10] One last thing I'll
[1:20:11] say is that I read
[1:20:13] a wonderful book by
[1:20:15] man, you probably
[1:20:16] know he's Scottish
[1:20:18] and he is, um,
[1:20:20] rock ROC someone.
[1:20:22] Yes.
[1:20:23] Robert Ogleby.
[1:20:24] Crombie.
[1:20:24] Yeah.
[1:20:24] And he's, I
[1:20:25] read his book.
[1:20:26] Um, Trent Chapman
[1:20:27] actually gave
[1:20:27] letter to me a
[1:20:28] couple years ago
[1:20:29] and his book about.
[1:20:31] Relationship with
[1:20:32] Nature Spirits and
[1:20:33] talking to Pan in
[1:20:34] the Botanic Gardens
[1:20:35] in, or the Royal
[1:20:36] Garden or whatever
[1:20:37] they're called
[1:20:37] in Ed Rock Raw.
[1:20:38] Yes.
[1:20:38] Which I've been to.
[1:20:39] Mm. And I've read
[1:20:40] the book after I've
[1:20:41] been there, but I'm
[1:20:41] gonna go back and
[1:20:42] try and find the
[1:20:43] little Benchy sat at
[1:20:45] when Pan turned up.
[1:20:46] Mm. Fascinating.
[1:20:47] So, I so recommend
[1:20:48] anyone who's
[1:20:49] navigating this
[1:20:51] stuff and elementals
[1:20:53] and nature spirits,
[1:20:54] and it's, it is
[1:20:55] so well written,
[1:20:56] beautifully written.
[1:20:57] And, um.
[1:20:58] Good yarn.
[1:20:59] Wonderful book.
[1:21:00] Yeah.
[1:21:00] Support that
[1:21:01] recommendation.
[1:21:02] I think it's
[1:21:03] been published
[1:21:04] and republished.
[1:21:04] And republished.
[1:21:05] It's in three or
[1:21:06] four different
[1:21:06] titles.
[1:21:07] Yep.
[1:21:07] Um, what's his name?
[1:21:09] R uh, Robert
[1:21:11] Ogilvy Crombie.
[1:21:12] Crombie.
[1:21:12] That's it.
[1:21:13] Um, and it was
[1:21:15] the gentleman
[1:21:15] on the phone.
[1:21:16] It was
[1:21:16] conversations with.
[1:21:18] Varies.
[1:21:19] I think it's
[1:21:20] currently
[1:21:21] conversations
[1:21:21] with nature
[1:21:22] spirits, but yeah.
[1:21:23] Um, yes, if, if, if,
[1:21:26] if your listeners
[1:21:28] look for Robert
[1:21:28] Ogilvy Crombie,
[1:21:29] they'll, they'll
[1:21:30] find the book
[1:21:31] easily and it's
[1:21:32] available both in
[1:21:33] print and Kindle,
[1:21:34] uh, versions.
[1:21:35] And he had quite
[1:21:36] interesting life
[1:21:37] himself, didn't
[1:21:37] he before he,
[1:21:38] he seventies?
[1:21:38] It was, it was
[1:21:39] in his seventies
[1:21:39] when he actually
[1:21:40] was sitting there.
[1:21:40] Was he quite late
[1:21:41] in, late in life
[1:21:42] and he kind of
[1:21:43] took him that long?
[1:21:44] I don't remember
[1:21:45] quite what age he
[1:21:46] was, but he, uh,
[1:21:47] does he say a, a
[1:21:49] very interesting
[1:21:50] life mathematician,
[1:21:52] scientist,
[1:21:53] musician, uh,
[1:21:57] theater director.
[1:21:58] Hmm.
[1:21:59] And he took himself
[1:22:00] over 10 years and in
[1:22:01] a hut with no power.
[1:22:02] And he did.
[1:22:03] I think he had
[1:22:04] tuberculosis and
[1:22:05] had to go and,
[1:22:06] excuse me, disappear
[1:22:07] and live in cold.
[1:22:09] I think that's
[1:22:09] why I couldn't.
[1:22:09] Cold climate.
[1:22:10] Yeah.
[1:22:11] Crazy.
[1:22:13] Um, Scotland's good
[1:22:14] for cold climate.
[1:22:15] Scotland's
[1:22:15] does a really
[1:22:17] well, Patrick.
[1:22:18] Let's get
[1:22:18] ourselves going.
[1:22:19] Um, so enjoyed our
[1:22:20] chat and, um, we'll
[1:22:23] do this again.
[1:22:24] We'll do chapters
[1:22:26] 2, 3, 4, and five.
[1:22:27] Thank you, Sharon,
[1:22:28] and remind me to
[1:22:29] get this off your
[1:22:29] phone tomorrow.
[1:22:32] Pleasure to
[1:22:32] speak to you.
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