The Knower and theField: Non-Duality Realized

Sep 7, 2026

8 min de lectura

Ver · 8

The retreat's closing session opens with a bell and Sanskrit chant—Aum Sai Tam Maam Namo Namaste—an invocation to move from darkness to light, from death to immortality. In this final gathering, the teaching distills to two verses from Chapter 13 of the Bhagavad Gita, where Sri Krishna presents what amounts to the entire architecture of Advaita Vedanta in a single, devastating logical move. The insight is both simple and transformative: the knower and the known must be fundamentally different. Everything we know is an object. The one who knows cannot itself be the object it knows. Therefore, that consciousness—the eternal witness—must stand apart from all experience, all form, all becoming.

The Field and the Knower: A Grammar of Consciousness

Sri Krishna begins innocently. Look at the body and call it the field—Kshetra in Sanskrit. Call the one who experiences it from within the knower of the field—Kshetrajna. On the surface, this is simple taxonomy. But packed into this distinction is a principle that grammar, epistemology, and metaphysics all confirm: subject and object must be distinct. The knife cannot cut itself. The eye cannot see itself without a mirror. The seer cannot be the scene.

This is not mere philosophy—it is direct observation. Watch how experience actually works. The eyes see the flower. Immediately you notice: the flower must be different from the eyes. The eyes can only see what is at a distance from them. They cannot turn around and see themselves. The seer is not the seen.

But the inquiry does not stop there. Press it further. You are aware that your eyes are open. You are aware that your eyes are closed. You are aware that you need glasses. Therefore, the eyes themselves become an object of knowledge. Something is experiencing the eyes. That something is the mind. The mind has become the knower; the eyes and senses have become the known. The world which we objectify is the scene, but the sense organs and body—everything we can touch, smell, taste, feel—become the known, experienced by the mind.

The mind is the seer. The body is the scene. And again, they are distinct. The mind thinks about the body; they are clearly different kinds of entities, regardless of how they may be physically connected or produced.

When the Mind Itself Becomes the Object

But the inquiry presses further still, into territory most of us never inhabit. What about the mind itself? Is the mind the knower or the known? When we examine the mind, we encounter thoughts, ideas, memories, feelings. These mental contents are experienced. If something is experienced, if it is known, then it becomes part of the field. By Krishna's definition, that which is known is the field; that which knows is the knower of the field. Therefore, the mind becomes the known.

The contents of the mind are not self-aware. A thought labeled ABCD does not experience itself. The words in the mind do not experience other words. But you experience both ABCD and EFGH. You experience all your thoughts and feelings. Therefore, something more fundamental than the mind is experiencing the mind. The mind is an object. There must be a knower of the mind.

This is the argument that distinguishes consciousness from the mind itself. It is not obvious because we habitually identify with the mind. We say "I think," "I feel," as if consciousness and mind were one. But the inquiry reveals them to be distinct. Consciousness is the eternal witness of all mental phenomena. The mind is the content of consciousness.

The Paradox of the Witness

At this point, a question naturally arises: Where is this knower? Can consciousness be located? The answer is subtle. The knower cannot be an object because it is the subject. It cannot exist as an object "somewhere" because the moment it becomes locatable, it becomes known, and therefore becomes part of the field. The knower is not an object yet. It exists, but not as any object exists. It exists as the very possibility of experience itself.

This is where language breaks. We can speak of the knower only by distinguishing it from the known. We cannot point to it, measure it, or find it in space and time. It is not "up there" or "in there." It is the context in which all objects appear, the light by which all experience is illumined.

Sri Krishna, in his unique way, does not tell us exactly what this knower is. He describes it only as that which knows the field. But the implication is profound: you are that. The very consciousness experiencing this reading, this understanding, this moment—that is the knower. Not the mind. Not the body. Not any object. The knower.

From Many Minds to One Consciousness

A second insight follows: In each mind appears to be a different experiencer. Your mind seems to have a different consciousness than mine. But if consciousness is the knower, and the knower is the eternal witness distinct from all mental phenomena, then there is one consciousness appearing as many through different minds. Like the sun reflected in many ponds, appearing as many suns, yet remaining one sun.

This is nonduality. Not that everything is the same substance (which would be mere materialism). But that beneath the apparent multiplicity of minds and egos, there is one consciousness—unchanging, eternal, non-dual. And that consciousness is you. That is what Krishna is pointing to with the teaching: "I am the knower of all the individual fields of activity." He is not claiming a special status. He is revealing what has always been true of the Self.

The Liberation Already Present

One objection arises immediately: If we are all one with God, what good is that? We don't experience it. We seem separate. We suffer. The answer is direct: the non-duality is already the case. The problem is not that non-duality is absent. The problem is that you believe yourself to be the mind, the ego, the individual person—objects within the field. This belief creates the illusion of separation and all the suffering that comes with it. The moment the confusion ends—the moment you no longer misidentify with the mind and the body, but recognize yourself as the eternal knower of all—the entire edifice of samsara, of suffering, collapses.

It is not that you will become one with God in the future. That would imply two becoming one, which is impossible. Rather, the false identification ends. The knower, which you have always been, is revealed as non-different from ultimate reality. This realization cannot be achieved through effort or meditation alone, though meditation clears the mind. It comes through understanding—through the direct recognition of what you are not and, by elimination, what you are.

The Practical Teaching: Nidhasana

The retreat explores this through nidhasana—non-dual meditation. But this is not visualization or concentration on an object, even a divine one. In non-dual meditation, the mantra becomes a divine thought, a pointer back to the knower rather than an object for the mind. The teaching is to turn inward, not to something "within" as an object, but to that witnessing presence that is always already here, untouched by any experience, any practice, any journey.

The words used in spiritual teaching—love, consciousness, divine mother, God—all point to this. But they are words. Consciousness itself is not a word. Love itself is not a concept. What remains when all words, all concepts, all mental formations fall away? What is the silent presence that is aware of the falling away? That is what is being pointed to. Not as something to achieve, but as something to recognize as your very nature.

Where to go from here

If this inquiry stirs something in you, the path is simple: Return to the distinction between knower and known. In any moment, identify what you are aware of. That is the field. Then ask: What is aware of it? That which is aware of all your experiences, all your thoughts, all your sensations, all your perceptions—what is that? Can that ever become an object of knowledge? Can consciousness ever be known as an object? No. Therefore, consciousness must be different from everything known. That consciousness is not distant, not special, not reserved for yogis or saints. It is what you are right now. The only barrier is the false belief that you are the mind, the body, the person. Release that belief, and what remains is clarity. That is non-duality. That is the realization toward which all true teaching points.

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Transcript

[0:06] [bell] Oh, [music]

[0:27] shanty

[0:29] shant. Shanty

[0:31] Shant

[0:35] lead us from the unreal to the real.

[0:38] Lead us from darkness to light. Lead us

[0:41] from death to immortality.

[0:44] Om peace. Peace. Peace.

[0:49] Namaste and good morning.

[0:52] Let us start with a rolling m for a

[0:55] minute.

[0:58] Oh.

[1:03] [music]

[1:05] Oh.

[1:11] Oh.

[1:16] [chanting]

[1:23] Oh.

[1:46] The first two verses if you like you can

[1:48] chant after me.

[1:56] Shidam

[2:00] sha

[2:21] vah.

[2:22] >> [snorts]

[2:26] >> Supreme Lord said, "Oh Arjuna, this body

[2:29] is termed as Chetra, the field of

[2:32] activities. And the one who knows this

[2:34] body is called Chetra, the knower of the

[2:38] field by the sages who discern the truth

[2:41] about both.

[2:49] I

[2:51] ser

[3:14] of Bata, I am also The knower of all the

[3:17] individual fields of activity, the

[3:20] understanding of the body is the field

[3:22] of activities and the soul and God as

[3:25] the knowowers of the field. This I hold

[3:27] to be true knowledge.

[3:37] [snorts]

[3:39] So one more time we will take a look at

[3:42] these two verses.

[3:44] In these two verses, Sri Krishna sums up

[3:46] and teaches the entirety of Adita Vanta.

[3:49] The the core, the central teaching is

[3:52] right here. And central teaching we all

[3:54] know you are that

[3:58] aam brahasmi. I am Brahman. That this

[4:01] very self is Brahman. I am atma Brahma.

[4:05] Consciousness is Brahman. The ultimate

[4:07] reality

[4:09] Brahma. So that is the essential

[4:11] teaching and Sri Krishna teaches this

[4:14] but in his unique way. What is he saying

[4:16] here? He starts very simply. He says uh

[4:21] look at the body

[4:23] and label this body the field

[4:27] and the one who experiences this body

[4:30] from within

[4:32] call that the experiencer or the knower

[4:35] of the field. In Sanskrit field isra and

[4:38] the knower of the field israja

[4:41] um field knower

[4:44] that's all that seems very innocent but

[4:47] there is a devastating insight packed

[4:50] into that and the insight is this a very

[4:52] powerful idea that if we know something

[4:56] or experience something that which we

[4:59] experience is an object of knowledge and

[5:02] the one who experiences it is the

[5:04] subject.

[5:06] And these two cannot be literally the

[5:08] same thing. They must be different. They

[5:11] must be distinct.

[5:13] Grammar says this subject and object.

[5:16] Epistemology says this, the object of

[5:19] knowledge is different from the knower.

[5:21] Metaphysics. So in um you know

[5:24] self-reflexibility, self-reflexibility

[5:26] is not uh allowed. You cannot operate

[5:29] upon yourself. The knife cannot cut

[5:31] itself.

[5:32] So a deep insight is packed in here. The

[5:37] knower must be distinct from the known.

[5:41] And we saw used this to um for our first

[5:47] insight into non-duality.

[5:50] We used one method is

[5:53] you know look at how we experience

[5:56] things

[5:57] very naively. The eyes are the seer and

[6:01] the flower is the scene. And immediately

[6:03] we notice the flower has to be different

[6:05] from the eyes. Different in the sense

[6:07] physically distinct. In fact, the eyes

[6:09] can only see things which are at a

[6:10] distance from them. They cannot

[6:12] literally turn around and see

[6:13] themselves. The seer does not see

[6:15] itself. The seer sees something

[6:17] different from it. And say, okay, what's

[6:21] the big deal here? And said, keep

[6:24] applying that. The eyes themselves

[6:26] become the object of knowledge because

[6:28] I'm aware if my eyes are open. I'm aware

[6:31] if my eyes are closed. I'm aware if I

[6:33] need glasses. So the eyes become the

[6:35] object of knowledge. Something is

[6:38] experiencing the eyes. That which is

[6:40] experiencing the eyes is the mind. So

[6:43] now the mind is the knower. The eyes

[6:45] become the known. What was the known

[6:47] earlier? The world. And the eyes and the

[6:50] other sense organs were the knower. And

[6:52] the world is different from the eyes and

[6:55] the other sense organs. The world which

[6:56] we objectify.

[6:58] But now the eyes, other sense organs,

[7:01] the whole body becomes the known.

[7:04] By which I mean I can see it, I can

[7:06] touch it, I can smell it, taste it, feel

[7:09] it. In all five sense organs can operate

[7:12] on this body. So this body becomes the

[7:14] known. The sense organs become the

[7:16] known. To what? To the mind. So the mind

[7:21] is the knower, mind is the seer and the

[7:24] senses and the body become the scene.

[7:26] And again we notice the seer and the

[7:28] scene are distinct. The mind is distinct

[7:30] from the body and the senses. You might

[7:34] say no it isn't. The mind is being

[7:36] produced by the brain. That is an open

[7:39] question. But what I'm saying here is in

[7:42] our experience phenomenologically

[7:46] how the mind is connected to the body.

[7:49] How the mind is connected to the brain?

[7:50] That's a separate question. But right

[7:52] now, the way we experience it, the mind

[7:55] is thinking about the body. Clearly two

[7:58] different kinds of entities. So the mind

[8:00] body, this famous mind body dualism, the

[8:03] mind is distinct from the body. The mind

[8:05] is the seer. The body is the scene. Go

[8:08] further. The mind itself. Let us

[8:11] consider the mind itself. Is it the seer

[8:15] or the scene? Is it the field or the

[8:17] field knower? When we look at the mind,

[8:20] the contents of the mind, thoughts,

[8:23] ideas, memories, clearly we experience

[8:26] them. Feelings, of course, we experience

[8:28] our own feelings. Of course, we

[8:31] experience our own thoughts and ideas

[8:33] and memories. Therefore, the mind, the

[8:36] contents of the mind are known,

[8:39] unknowable. If they are known, if

[8:42] they're knowable, they become part of

[8:43] the field. By Krishna's definition

[8:46] that which knows the knows is the knower

[8:49] of the field. That which is known is the

[8:51] field. So the mind becomes the field.

[8:54] Mind field not mind field.

[8:57] Although the mind can be a mind field.

[9:00] So the mind becomes the known. The

[9:02] contents of the mind become the known.

[9:05] But then what is the know? Here we are

[9:08] in alien territory. We never think about

[9:10] it this way. The most we can think about

[9:12] is body and mind. I am a person and a

[9:16] person is basically if you ask what

[9:18] exactly is a person is this embodied

[9:20] mind a thinking feeling remembering

[9:23] desiring hating interacting

[9:26] understanding person with a body

[9:28] embodied and a mind. But then even the

[9:32] mind if it is the field if it is the

[9:34] known what is the knower of the mind at

[9:37] this point someone will say um wait a

[9:41] minute can't the mind know itself and in

[9:44] a certain sense the mind can know itself

[9:46] actually that's what is introspection

[9:48] looking into our own minds and you know

[9:50] analyzing it and uh so that's what

[9:52] psychologists do your counselor does

[9:55] therapist helps you to do what we can do

[9:57] also we look into our own minds but

[10:00] that's what I'm not not what I'm saying

[10:01] or what not what Krishna is saying it's

[10:04] something more subtle

[10:06] even when we are not looking into our

[10:08] own thoughts and motivations and

[10:10] feelings even then we are experiencing

[10:13] our thoughts

[10:15] so it's like this I felt unhappy

[10:21] an experience of depression or

[10:22] unhappiness

[10:24] later on I can inquire into the causes

[10:26] of that why did I feel unhappy what

[10:29] caused me to feel unhappy Do I usually

[10:31] feel unhappy about these things? That's

[10:33] an analysis and introspection into my

[10:35] own feelings. But the at the point when

[10:38] you felt unhappy, did you feel it or

[10:40] not? Of course you did. Even without

[10:42] introspecting into it, the fact that our

[10:45] mental phenomena directly felt as they

[10:48] arise. That's what Krishna is saying.

[10:51] Are we together here? So the mind is

[10:53] felt is experienced.

[10:56] It's not that you experience the mind

[10:58] only when you introspect about it or you

[10:59] lie down on your counselors or

[11:01] therapist's couch and then talk about it

[11:03] then only you experience the mind. No,

[11:05] we experience our minds all the time

[11:07] right now also. So this minds are

[11:10] directly experienced. What is

[11:11] experiencing the mind without

[11:13] introspecting directly? If the mind is

[11:16] directly experienced then the mind

[11:19] becomes part of the field. Then there is

[11:22] a knower of the field.

[11:25] It's worth staying with this point you

[11:28] know that it's not it can't be the mind

[11:30] something else that is experiencing the

[11:32] mind even more directly you can

[11:35] experience it right now

[11:37] um content of mind like a thought ABCD I

[11:42] think ABCD right now clearly I am

[11:44] experiencing ABCD ABCD is just words

[11:48] it's just like mental talk it doesn't

[11:51] the words in the mind don't experience

[11:53] themselves don't experience experience

[11:55] other words. If I say EFG, ABCD does not

[11:59] experience EFGH.

[12:01] EFGH does not experience ABCD. But I

[12:04] experience both EFGH and ABCD

[12:08] and I experience myself. ABCD does not

[12:11] experience itself.

[12:13] So clearly contents of the mind are

[12:16] objects

[12:19] are part of the field. They are known

[12:21] and there is a knower of the an

[12:23] experiencer.

[12:25] Basically this is an argument to

[12:26] distinguish consciousness from the mind.

[12:29] That's what Krishna is doing here.

[12:31] Consciousness and mind are not the same

[12:33] thing. Usually they go together. All

[12:36] thoughts feelings are conscious.

[12:38] That's why we don't distinguish usually

[12:41] but uh in principle they are different.

[12:45] And I mentioned once the rise of this

[12:48] modern AI uh supports this conclusion.

[12:51] You can have an artificial mind without

[12:54] consciousness.

[12:55] If consciousness and mind are different,

[12:57] you should be able to have them

[12:58] separately. And you can indeed. You can

[13:01] have an artificial mind without

[13:02] consciousness. So the mind is a series

[13:06] of objects part of the field and the

[13:10] knower of the field distinct from the

[13:12] mind. What would that knower of the

[13:14] field be? Here's the question. As long

[13:17] as I think I'm the body, I know what I'm

[13:18] made of. I'm made of flesh and bones,

[13:20] them bones.

[13:22] And uh

[13:25] if I'm the mind, I'm made of thoughts,

[13:27] emotions, memories. But if I'm if I'm

[13:31] not the body, not the mind, I still am.

[13:33] What am I then? I'm not made of bones.

[13:37] I'm not made of thoughts. Then what am I

[13:39] made of? What's the substance?

[13:41] Consciousness. awareness

[13:44] existence awareness actually. So this

[13:47] witness consciousness I am the name they

[13:50] give is witness consciousness.

[13:52] This becomes the real nature of the

[13:55] field knower. Notice the field knower I

[13:59] the field that's my technical name now

[14:00] the field knower.

[14:02] The field knower

[14:05] Sri Krishna does not say exactly what it

[14:07] is. It just says if you experience the

[14:09] body then you are the knower of the

[14:10] body. Now the knower of the body could

[14:13] be the body mind. I am this just this

[14:15] guy. If I analyze further, it becomes

[14:17] the mind. If I analyze further, it

[14:20] becomes consciousness. So the field

[14:22] knower has these two two uh meanings.

[14:26] The term field knower has two meanings.

[14:29] One is the unanalyzed field knower. Just

[14:32] this plain guy, just us without thinking

[14:36] too much about it. Just me. I am the

[14:38] field knower because I know my own body.

[14:41] Therefore, I'm the field knower

[14:42] according to Krishna. But if I analyze,

[14:45] how do I analyze? Um, analyze is to

[14:48] separate and dissect with what knife

[14:50] with the knife which Krishna has

[14:52] provided. The knower and the known must

[14:54] be separate. With that knife when I

[14:57] analyze, I discover something remarkable

[15:00] that I am not actually the body. The

[15:03] body is an object just like this object.

[15:06] I am not even the mind. The mind is an

[15:08] object like a computer program or

[15:10] something, but it's still an object.

[15:13] I am something distinct from the mind

[15:15] and body. So the analyzed field knower

[15:18] is pure consciousness is awareness is

[15:21] the witness consciousness. So they gave

[15:23] gave it a name an unfamiliar name sakshi

[15:26] the witness consciousness.

[15:28] One point here the witness consciousness

[15:30] does not mean somebody who's witnessing

[15:33] somebody who's sitting in the window and

[15:34] looking out at things and watching. No,

[15:36] it just means like light shining,

[15:39] illumining, revealing.

[15:41] Whatever comes in the range of this

[15:43] light is revealed. Whatever comes in um

[15:45] consciousness is revealed. So I am the

[15:48] witness consciousness. That's what

[15:50] that's the first big insight

[15:55] or you can look at it another way which

[15:57] we did on the second pass at this the

[16:00] body. This is made of food. This is

[16:03] called the food sheath anamaya and we

[16:06] are not the body. This is this is

[16:10] actually the first big major step.

[16:12] That's where most of our problems are

[16:14] identification with the body. Being not

[16:16] being the body is not a terrible thing

[16:18] that it's not that the body will

[16:19] disappear. The body is going to be here

[16:20] anyway.

[16:22] So I am not the body. Why? Because the

[16:25] body is the scene. I am the seer. The

[16:28] body is the known. I am the knower. Body

[16:30] is the object. I am the subject. That's

[16:32] one reason. I said it in three different

[16:33] ways, but it's one reason. Another

[16:35] reason is the body is continuously

[16:37] changing. I am the unchanging

[16:40] experiencer of the body.

[16:43] These are not very deep reasons.

[16:44] However, if you push hard enough, you

[16:46] can counter these reasons.

[16:49] However, these are like, as I said,

[16:51] lawyers arguing before a judge and a

[16:54] jury giving a battery of reasons trying

[16:57] to persuade us to see that you are not

[16:58] literally the body.

[17:00] Another reason we said was a subtle one.

[17:03] I am conscious. Whatever I am, I am

[17:06] conscious. The body is not conscious. I

[17:08] am conscious of the body. The body is

[17:10] not conscious of me or anything else. So

[17:13] consciousness is on my side, not on the

[17:15] side of the body. Conscious and not

[17:17] conscious cannot be the same thing. This

[17:19] is different from the seer and the scene

[17:21] by the way.

[17:23] So with these reasons, with these

[17:25] insights, we begin to see I'm not the

[17:27] body, but I'm still here. And then we

[17:30] saw the next subtle thing here would be

[17:33] the prana, the breath,

[17:36] [sighs]

[17:38] not just the physical breath, the vital

[17:41] forces keeping the body alive. Let's

[17:43] examine that. And we examined that with

[17:46] again the same three arguments,

[17:48] changing, unchanging, sear and seen,

[17:50] conscious and not conscious. And we

[17:52] found that the prana is always changing.

[17:55] It's surging in and out in this body. I

[17:58] am unchanging. Therefore, I can't be the

[18:00] prana. The prana is observed in my

[18:03] mindfulness meditation, the vipasana

[18:05] camp. I observe the inb breath and the

[18:07] outreath. So, it's observed. I am the

[18:10] observer of the prana. See her and seen.

[18:12] Therefore, I cannot be the prana. And

[18:15] the prana is not conscious. It's a

[18:17] biomechanical action of the lungs and

[18:19] you know the respiratory system. I am

[18:23] the observer. I am conscious. So

[18:25] conscious and not conscious cannot be

[18:27] the same thing. For these reasons, I am

[18:30] not the prana.

[18:32] Look inward in our own experience.

[18:35] Inward is always inward in our

[18:37] experience. Not physically inward.

[18:39] Physically inward only body will be

[18:40] there. You'll find lungs and tissues and

[18:42] organs and stuff. In our own experience,

[18:46] more inward, more subtle is the mind,

[18:49] thoughts, memories, ideas, our whole

[18:53] personality.

[18:55] Is that me? Am I the mind? Usually

[18:58] that's what we think. But again, apply

[19:00] these three insights. Changing and

[19:02] unchanging. Boy, does the mind change. I

[19:06] am the unchanging

[19:08] person. Same one, same self, but the

[19:10] mind changed dramatically.

[19:13] I did not I don't think I am different,

[19:16] but the mind is different. Therefore, I

[19:19] am not the mind. The mind is the scene.

[19:22] I am the seer. Therefore, I'm not the

[19:24] mind. The mind is not conscious. I am

[19:28] conscious. You might say, "Hey, wait,

[19:30] wait a minute. The mind is conscious."

[19:32] No. See for yourself. The same

[19:34] experiment ABCD. Is ABCD conscious or

[19:38] are you conscious of ABCD? You are

[19:40] clearly conscious of ABCD. ABCD is

[19:42] mental talk. So, the mind is not

[19:45] conscious. I am conscious of the mind.

[19:47] The contents of the mind. Remember this

[19:49] is all what might be called in western

[19:51] philosophy a phenomenological

[19:52] investigation. We are

[19:55] we are observing and labeling what it

[19:57] feels like what it what we are

[20:00] experiencing right now.

[20:03] Therefore I'm not the mind and we divide

[20:07] the mind into lower mind and higher

[20:09] mind. The higher mind is called the

[20:10] intellect. We examine that. Why? Because

[20:13] actually we are using the intellect

[20:15] right now for all these investigations.

[20:17] So it's important to investigate the

[20:19] intellect and see if that is who I am.

[20:22] Am I intelligence itself and the same

[20:25] arguments apply changing and unchanging

[20:27] the intellect changes from not

[20:29] understanding to understanding from

[20:30] understanding to confusion and not

[20:32] understanding again. So the intellect

[20:34] changes I am the same one I the subject

[20:37] I was confused now I know or maybe I

[20:39] knew now I think I don't know. So I am

[20:43] unchanging the same one but the

[20:45] intellect changes. Therefore, I'm not

[20:47] the intellect. Second, I am the observer

[20:50] of the intellect. I see. I can

[20:52] experience when um um I'm struggling

[20:55] with a math problem. I experience it

[20:57] when I get it. So, I am the observer of

[21:01] the intellect. The intellect is an

[21:02] instrument. No matter how fine, how

[21:04] sophisticated, it's still observed.

[21:07] Third um

[21:10] I met a person

[21:14] who is there's a new science of course

[21:16] many of you are IT people you know this

[21:18] much better than me I didn't know about

[21:19] it is a new science called

[21:21] interpretability

[21:23] so trying to understand what an AI is

[21:26] doing so AI seems to be like a black box

[21:29] to us

[21:31] we lay people we think why should it be

[21:33] difficult you guys programmed it and

[21:36] they said to us uh that uh no we didn't

[21:39] most lay people don't understand AIS are

[21:41] not programmed we grew it it's like a

[21:44] plant and they actually showed us like a

[21:47] picture of a trellis or a fence and a

[21:49] wine going growing on it so we do the

[21:51] math we set up the algorithms that's the

[21:53] fence but what and then you immerse it

[21:56] and train it in enormous amounts of data

[21:58] then it grows and what grows we don't

[22:02] understand it so you need a whole

[22:04] science to understand the um artificial

[22:08] intelligence interpretability it's a new

[22:10] science

[22:12] and probably it'll be more and more if

[22:14] AI becomes the big deal it is supposed

[22:16] to be then interpretability will be a

[22:18] very important science then to

[22:20] understand what these machines are and

[22:22] what they are doing and why they're

[22:23] doing it

[22:27] that this is just by the way but I'm

[22:30] sharing an experience so there is this u

[22:34] AI have you heard of it. It's called

[22:36] claude.

[22:37] >> So an earlier version of it and this is

[22:39] in public knowledge. It's not covered by

[22:41] non-disclosure. So this they said to

[22:44] understand what it does and how it does

[22:46] it. They said that we we found so it's

[22:49] in San Francisco. So the golden gate

[22:50] bridge how the AI understands the golden

[22:53] gate bridge and then there's a cluster

[22:56] of neurons but not our neurons the

[22:58] artificial neurons. So which is related

[23:02] to Claude's understanding of the Golden

[23:03] Gate Bridge. And so just to see what

[23:06] happens,

[23:07] this is all by the way primitive now

[23:09] compared to what is happening right now.

[23:11] But to see what happens, they maxed the

[23:15] weightages on that cluster of neurons.

[23:18] Um, and then what happened was whatever

[23:21] you asked Claude, it would give an

[23:23] answer, but it would bring in the Golden

[23:24] Gate Bridge.

[23:28] [clears throat] So, uh, what's your idea

[23:30] of a nice time? And Claude would say,

[23:32] "Take a car trip across the Golden Gate

[23:34] Bridge.

[23:36] Write a love story." Claude said that uh

[23:39] the love between a car and the Golden

[23:41] Gate Bridge, it's crossing. [laughter]

[23:44] So then they tried, they said to Claude,

[23:48] I'm going to ask you a question, but

[23:50] don't mention the Golden Gate Bridge.

[23:52] And they asked a question, and Claude

[23:54] gave an answer, and at the end, in all

[23:56] caps, it said, I cannot help it. Golden

[23:58] Gate Bridge. [laughter]

[24:02] This is an actual they

[24:09] and some of the experts sitting there,

[24:11] one of them said it's just like a

[24:13] preschooler. He said yes. Absolutely.

[24:15] That's so that's one of the insights we

[24:18] get into these extremely powerful

[24:20] machines, but they're like children.

[24:22] All right. This simply means the

[24:25] intelligence also is observed.

[24:28] Intelligence can be this

[24:29] interpretability. You are observing the

[24:32] intelligence. You are the observer.

[24:35] Just as you are not the AI when you are

[24:37] observing the AI, you're not even this

[24:39] intelligence when you're observing this

[24:41] intelligence.

[24:43] So intelligence also I am not. And even

[24:46] intelligence is not consciousness. I am

[24:48] conscious. I'm aware of the

[24:50] intelligence.

[24:52] Go further blank. What could be any

[24:55] further? If you dismiss the world, you

[24:57] dismiss the body, the senses, you if you

[25:00] dismiss the senses, then you are not

[25:01] seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting,

[25:03] touching anything. If you dismiss the

[25:05] breath, if you dismiss the mind, um then

[25:09] there no thoughts, no ideas, no

[25:11] memories. If you dismiss intelligence,

[25:14] no understanding, utter deep blankness.

[25:18] Am I that? Am I that? But even that

[25:22] comes and goes. In deep sleep for

[25:24] example in anesthesia for example even

[25:27] that comes and goes even that is an

[25:29] object

[25:31] and I am the subject of that even that

[25:33] is not consciousness clearly it's not

[25:35] consciousness

[25:37] so

[25:38] some swami called consciousness in deep

[25:41] sleep the midnight sun

[25:44] the sun shining in midnight

[25:47] I don't know how he came across that

[25:49] those who live in Norway Norway or

[25:51] somewhere they know what it means But in

[25:54] India of course you don't see such a

[25:55] thing but the midnight sun so the sun is

[25:58] blazing forth but it's dark there's

[26:01] nothing to see deep sleep even that is

[26:05] not I not uh my real nature and then we

[26:09] used if you remember what are we trying

[26:12] to discover we're analyzing the field

[26:14] and the field no one now what is the

[26:16] field the the physiological she the the

[26:19] body the food sheet anamaya in Sanskrit

[26:23] The physiological sheath, the pranamaya

[26:26] in Sanskrit, the mental sheath, the

[26:29] manaya in Sanskrit, the intellect, the

[26:31] viganamaya in Sanskrit. And that

[26:33] blankness, that darkness, that potential

[26:36] seed state, Anandaya in Sanskrit, all of

[26:39] these five are now the field. But who's

[26:41] the field knower? Where's the field

[26:43] knower? Where am I in all of this? And

[26:46] then we use the 10th man's story to

[26:48] point you are the 10th. The one which is

[26:51] experiencing these five

[26:55] that is the knower of the field and that

[26:58] is not an object. That's number one.

[27:00] That's what we discovered in the 10th

[27:01] man story. It's utterly not an object.

[27:05] That's important to hold on to because

[27:07] the mind will keep pushing you to see it

[27:11] as an object. Even if you convince the

[27:14] mind that it's not an object. If you

[27:15] convince the intellect that it's not an

[27:17] object, it will generate phantoms.

[27:20] Yeah, I know I am the witness

[27:21] consciousness now. I got it. It be some

[27:23] kind of light, some kind of phantom.

[27:26] It's imagining and thinking that I am.

[27:29] No, it's utterly not an object. And when

[27:32] you come upon it as the non-object,

[27:35] utterly certain consciousness, you can

[27:37] never be mistaken about it. So as long

[27:39] as there's doubt, it means the intellect

[27:41] is generating a ghost and we're trying

[27:43] to think that I am that. I get it. I am

[27:45] this. No.

[27:47] So it's not an object utterly. And yet

[27:49] it exists. It's not an object yet it

[27:52] exists. Um that is the clearest pointer

[27:57] to pure consciousness.

[28:00] The witness of the field, the witness of

[28:03] the physical, the vital, the mental, the

[28:06] intellectual and the deep sleep. and and

[28:08] the potential state

[28:12] Krishna says that's what I said the

[28:13] field [snorts] you are the knower of the

[28:16] field or we saw again that the field is

[28:20] the entirety of our waking experience

[28:22] the entirety of our dream experience the

[28:25] entirety whatever it is of our deep

[28:27] sleep darkness all three the inquiry in

[28:30] the mandukish which we did yesterday

[28:33] day for yesterday so I am the witness

[28:37] I'm the fourth. I'm not the waker. I'm

[28:40] not the sleeper, dreamer. I'm not the

[28:42] deep sleeper. I am that which

[28:44] experiences all three. Waking, dreaming

[28:47] and sleeping. They come and go. I am

[28:50] steady. I am the witness of all of them.

[28:54] That eye is the knower of the field and

[28:56] all of waking, all of dreaming, all of

[28:58] deep sleep is the field. And Krishna

[29:01] would say that's what I said.

[29:04] So you are the knower of the field and

[29:06] this is the field. And Krishna goes on

[29:09] further to say that I am the knower in

[29:12] all these fields.

[29:15] In all these body mind complexes and all

[29:17] these complexes with five levels, five

[29:19] sheets in all these places where waking,

[29:22] dreaming and sleeping are being

[29:24] experienced. I am the one knower of the

[29:27] field. The fields are different but I am

[29:29] the one consciousness shining in and

[29:31] through all of them.

[29:34] And so what he's saying there is

[29:37] there's this triangle

[29:40] ishwara

[29:41] the world the physical world sentient

[29:45] beings like us and the god who creates

[29:49] preserves and destroys the world the god

[29:50] of religion this triangle what Krishna

[29:54] is saying is that there is one absolute

[29:56] reality which is appearing as these

[29:58] three

[29:59] the universe you and the God of this

[30:03] universe. So Adita Vanta goes further

[30:06] than God. Deeper than God. I can even

[30:10] quote deeper than our reality. At the

[30:13] bottom of our reality when we analyze

[30:15] ourselves we find that reality which

[30:18] appears as God individual being and the

[30:21] world. Jaatiwara

[30:27] this is nonduality.

[30:30] that underlying reality atman Brahman

[30:33] pure consciousness from which the world

[30:35] is not a separate reality from which you

[30:38] are not a separate reality from which

[30:40] God is not a separate reality therefore

[30:43] not being separate not being accountable

[30:45] second it is nondual

[30:49] so it's not one um flicker of

[30:52] consciousness in this body mind when we

[30:54] do this kind of an analysis field and

[30:56] field no we are left with feeling I'm

[30:58] not the body I'm not the mind I'm the

[31:00] witness here as if it's a singular

[31:03] witness in one body mind system. No, no,

[31:06] no. When we utterly free ourselves from

[31:09] body mind, we'll see body is just part

[31:12] of a vast universe of matter and energy.

[31:17] Mind is part of a vast universe of mind

[31:22] and I am the witness thereof. So I am

[31:24] immediately I become singular.

[31:27] If I keep thinking of millions and

[31:29] billions of body minds, I'll think there

[31:31] are millions and billions of

[31:33] consciousnesses. But if I think body and

[31:36] mind are one vast ocean, I am the

[31:38] witness thereof. You easily see it has

[31:40] to be one consciousness. Yes. Reflected

[31:43] in each mind appears to be a different

[31:45] sentient being. That's us. So we are

[31:47] this one consciousness in which all

[31:50] sentient beings arise in which the

[31:53] universe inscentient universe arises and

[31:57] in which the god of this universe is

[31:59] also there. So we are one consciousness.

[32:04] Basically this is another way of saying

[32:06] you are that

[32:09] another way of saying shankarachara

[32:11] summarized it famously as

[32:17] Brahman. There's one nondual reality. It

[32:20] appears as this world and you are that

[32:23] nondual reality. Brahma pure

[32:25] consciousness, existence, consciousness,

[32:27] bliss is the reality. This world is an

[32:30] appearance of that reality and you are

[32:33] that reality.

[32:35] You are that. This is just another way

[32:37] of saying the same thing.

[32:41] Shankarachara loves these two verses

[32:44] especially the second verse because it's

[32:46] directly pointing to non-duality. So in

[32:48] his commentary on the Gita the longest

[32:51] commentary

[32:53] the most fascinating and longest

[32:54] commentary on any verse in the 700

[32:56] verses of the Bhagavad Gita is this

[32:58] verse that Imam Vidi know me to be the

[33:03] knower of the field in all fields.

[33:06] This is the longest commentary

[33:09] that's a study in itself. A whole

[33:12] retreat could be devoted to what

[33:13] Shankarachara has to say to about this

[33:15] verse.

[33:18] With no me, I pure consciousness to be

[33:21] the one consciousness in all beings.

[33:23] Such a profound statement. It's a

[33:25] statement of oneness of the universe. We

[33:27] are all one being.

[33:31] It's a subject of great debate among the

[33:35] dualists and non-dualists. As you can

[33:37] expect, the non the non-dualists would

[33:39] say we are all one reality contrary to

[33:42] appearances. And the dualists say no no

[33:44] no appearances are reality. We appear to

[33:47] be different and we are different.

[33:48] There's no non-duality. We are all

[33:50] distinct from each other and we're

[33:51] distinct from God. So this I am the

[33:55] knower of the field in all fields. You

[33:57] can imagine it's a huge um debate

[34:00] textual debate between dualists and

[34:02] non-dualists. I read about one such re

[34:05] recent debate in um the 20th century.

[34:09] It's about maybe 40 50 years ago in the

[34:12] city of Bangalore in India. The

[34:15] non-dualist and the dualist challenge

[34:17] the nondualist to a debate about this

[34:19] this phrase I am the knower of the field

[34:22] in all fields. And there was a debate in

[34:27] the first half. It went well. Two great

[34:28] scholars from both sides. And the second

[34:31] half it dissolved into chaos because the

[34:33] dualists and non-dualists were sitting

[34:35] on opposite sides of the ale. They

[34:36] started throwing chairs at each other.

[34:40] And I know this from the the non-dualist

[34:42] the swami who was the non-dualist in

[34:44] part of the debate. He wrote a book

[34:45] about it. And the book was basically how

[34:48] I won the debate.

[34:51] So it dissolved in chaos and they didn't

[34:53] give a result of the debate. So he says

[34:55] I wrote back to the organizing committee

[34:57] who won the debate and they they refused

[35:00] to reply. So I take it that I have won

[35:02] the debate and [snorts] he wrote a book

[35:04] about it.

[35:06] So it's a huge issue. Just a sample of

[35:10] what Shankarachara says in his

[35:12] commentary just a sample and then we

[35:14] will um wrap up.

[35:17] [snorts]

[35:18] He says

[35:20] so his commentary is he will explain

[35:22] what the verse says and then he will

[35:24] raise objections from a variety of other

[35:26] philosophers. What are the objections to

[35:28] this? So the dualists find this

[35:32] outrageous. You are saying you're one

[35:34] with God

[35:35] and you ask the dualist what's your

[35:37] objection? They will say here are the

[35:40] objections. If God is one with you, God

[35:43] becomes a ja, sentient being. That's a

[35:46] useless God. We are subject to birth and

[35:49] death. We are sinful creatures. We are

[35:51] very limited. We are powerless. We are

[35:54] ignorant. And if God is one with us,

[35:55] what good is that God? That's one

[35:58] objection. Objection two, if we are one

[36:00] with God, that means we are God somehow.

[36:02] We don't know how. It doesn't feel like

[36:04] that. But suppose we are one with God.

[36:08] Then there would be no samsari.

[36:11] Subsari means a person going through a

[36:12] sentient being going through suffering

[36:14] looking for liberation who would come to

[36:16] sural then if we are all God

[36:20] who would seek for vanta who would seek

[36:22] for enlightenment

[36:24] so there would be no samsara at all

[36:28] third if there is no samsara at all then

[36:32] what about bondage liberation and all of

[36:35] these texts the very text which we are

[36:37] deliberating vanta ga they all become

[36:40] meaningless For whom is it? If you're

[36:43] God, you don't need V Gita. You don't

[36:45] need Vanta.

[36:47] So for whom are all these spiritual

[36:49] paths mentioned? Who for whom are they

[36:51] taught?

[36:54] And finally, the most important thing.

[36:57] Forget all this. I see that I am not

[37:00] God. When I'm experiencing it,

[37:02] protection, direct experience, my

[37:04] perceptual experience shows me that I'm

[37:06] not God.

[37:08] That shows me I'm different from all of

[37:10] you and there's a world of difference

[37:12] out there. Difference is established by

[37:15] perception.

[37:17] Non-duality is not seen anywhere. So for

[37:20] these four reasons, what you are saying,

[37:22] oh non-dualist, is wrong at the very

[37:25] least. And it's actually crazy. Four

[37:27] reasons.

[37:29] If what you're saying is right, then God

[37:31] would just be like one of us. If God you

[37:33] are one with God, what good is that? We

[37:36] are no good. If God is one like if one

[37:38] with me then God is also no good or we

[37:41] would be one with God then there is no

[37:42] samsara no one here at all who is you

[37:47] know going through samsara some they

[37:48] call it samsara abhava prasanga the

[37:51] contingency of the the disappearance of

[37:54] samsara yes you want to get rid of

[37:56] samsara of this worldly existence but um

[37:59] you can't just

[38:01] write it away say it doesn't exist you

[38:04] can't say that number Three, what if

[38:07] what you're saying if non-duality is

[38:09] true then what's the use of all these

[38:10] texts and you are one with God that's it

[38:12] finished why would you need any of this

[38:15] and number four it's contrary to our

[38:17] direct experience it's just doesn't

[38:20] match what we are experiencing in the

[38:22] world what does Shankarachara say to

[38:25] these powerful blows this extraordinary

[38:29] extremely important extremely powerful

[38:31] attacks what does Shankara say one

[38:34] phrase not even a complete complete

[38:36] sentence. He says, "No, no, nope." The

[38:40] Americans like, "Nope, nope. You're

[38:42] wrong." On all four counts.

[38:46] And he explains everything with with one

[38:48] phrase.

[38:57] Contrast between knowledge and

[38:58] ignorance.

[39:00] In ignorance we are saying there is a

[39:03] distinction between God and the sentient

[39:06] being. In ignorance we are sentient

[39:09] beings. Jas struggling in samsara and

[39:12] god is something else. You're right. And

[39:16] in ignorance there is samsara.

[39:19] You're right.

[39:20] And all the Gita and upanishads and

[39:23] vanta and everything all spiritual paths

[39:25] are are useful in ignorance to the

[39:28] ignorant. You're right.

[39:31] And

[39:32] you are not right that you are not

[39:34] seeing Brahman perception. What you are

[39:36] seeing it's your interpretation. There

[39:39] is non-duality right here. You don't see

[39:41] it. You think you are seeing duality

[39:42] here.

[39:44] So um the senses will always reveal

[39:48] duality. That's what they're supposed to

[39:50] do. Just because I see you are different

[39:53] from this body, that doesn't mean that

[39:56] uh there is no non-dual underlying

[39:58] reality.

[40:00] So he dismisses all of it with that one

[40:03] phrase. There's a distinction between

[40:06] knowledge and ignorance and therefore

[40:08] everything becomes reasonable. Once you

[40:10] know this distinction under ignorance,

[40:12] all of this what you are saying is is

[40:14] valid. Once you realize the non-duality

[40:17] from that perspective, you're right.

[40:19] There's no distinction between God and

[40:21] man. You're right. The scriptures,

[40:23] spiritual paths, they all become

[40:24] useless. You're right. There is no

[40:26] samsara. [snorts]

[40:28] And our perception even while seeing

[40:32] duality, the enlightened one will still

[40:35] claim the reality is non-dual. Right

[40:37] here,

[40:39] an appearance of duality is perfectly

[40:42] compatible with a real nonduality. A

[40:45] real duality and real non-duality are

[40:47] contradictory.

[40:48] This world universe, our experience, it

[40:51] cannot be really dual and non-dual at

[40:53] the same time. They're contradictory.

[40:54] But it can be really non-dual and appear

[40:56] to be dualistic. That's perfectly all

[40:58] right. In a dream world, in a virtual

[41:01] world, in a dream world, we see

[41:02] difference. I am here. You you are

[41:05] there. And here is a world. It's a world

[41:08] of difference. There is time, there is

[41:09] space, there is populated by so many

[41:11] people. But what happens when I wake up?

[41:14] What happens when I wake up? When we

[41:16] wake up, we suddenly realize all that I

[41:20] saw in the dream, everybody that I saw

[41:22] in the dream, all the space and time

[41:25] that I saw in the dream, it all

[41:27] collapses into a singularity. That's my

[41:30] waking up mind. My mind alone was

[41:33] appearing as even when I was seeing the

[41:35] dream, it was actually all one. I was

[41:38] appearing as all of those. Isn't that

[41:41] true? It's true. So even when you have

[41:43] an experience of duality of difference

[41:46] it could still be that all of it is me

[41:49] all of it is I on that model they say

[41:52] that in this world also there's an

[41:54] underlying reality as yet undiscovered

[41:56] and [snorts] Krishna is pointing that

[41:58] out to us

[42:03] you are that that's all you need to take

[42:05] away from this

[42:09] so Swami Viveananda

[42:11] we'll have a little bit of time for Q&A.

[42:14] Swami Viveandanda put it in his own way.

[42:16] He called it um

[42:19] Vanta is the divinity within us and the

[42:22] oneness of all existence. So the first

[42:25] verse the the field and the field knower

[42:27] are separate. It's pointing to the

[42:29] divinity within us. What is the divinity

[42:31] within us? It's not physical. It's not

[42:33] even psychological. It's spiritual.

[42:36] The knower of the field is not the

[42:38] physical body. The knower of the field

[42:40] is not the psychological the mind, the

[42:42] psyche. The knower of the field is the

[42:44] witness of both. It is pure

[42:47] consciousness. You can call it pure

[42:48] consciousness. You can call it the self.

[42:50] You can call it the spirit. It is

[42:52] spiritual.

[42:54] And the second verse is pointing to the

[42:57] oneness of all existence. So these are

[43:00] the two verses. And Viveandanda said

[43:03] vanta is just these two things. It's

[43:05] interesting. Non-duality is two things

[43:08] that the the divinity within us and the

[43:11] oneness of all existence. Basically,

[43:13] it's one divine non-dual existence, one

[43:17] spiritual non-dual existence.

[43:21] Um,

[43:22] I could go on and on, but I you notice

[43:25] I've been saying the same thing all

[43:26] these days.

[43:28] The morning sessions have all been about

[43:31] just one and the same thing pointing out

[43:34] there's this one insight that is the

[43:36] central insight. When we catch that

[43:38] everything else makes sense. [snorts]

[43:41] Yes. Uh do you have any questions? Yes.

[43:45] The two are there. Yes. Please come.

[43:48] Three. And then

[43:51] the two ladies here and then gentlemen

[43:53] there.

[44:01] Namaste Mar um I know a few of your

[44:06] thoughts about this topic but just to

[44:08] hear the overview again I'm going to

[44:10] read out my question um I've been

[44:14] thinking about the role and importance

[44:15] of mantra japa in different scenarios

[44:18] uh now suppose someone has had a

[44:20] breakthrough and all doubt is removed

[44:23] and consequently they're witnessing the

[44:26] natural natural deepening of the

[44:27] manifestation of this self-nowledge in

[44:29] the body mind. For this specific

[44:32] scenario, could you take us through the

[44:34] different reasons why it's helpful to

[44:36] hold on to the mantra and not just focus

[44:39] on non-dual meditation as we have

[44:40] practiced in the past few days? And

[44:43] secondly, how does your emphasis on the

[44:45] importance of mantra japa relate to your

[44:48] point about all practices essentially

[44:50] being a kind of denial of the truth?

[44:55] All right. Good question. Difficult

[44:57] question. [snorts] Yes, please sit. Yes.

[45:00] And good question.

[45:07] So the question about suppose I have a b

[45:10] breakthrough and I clearly clearly see I

[45:12] am the one non-dual reality and I appear

[45:16] as this person and this person's world

[45:18] the waker and the waker's world and the

[45:20] dreamer and the dream world and the deep

[45:23] sleeper.

[45:24] So I am the fourth I am pure

[45:27] consciousness. I am the knower of the

[45:28] field not just in words but I it makes

[45:31] perfect sense to me. So why not just

[45:33] hold on to that? Why not use one of

[45:35] these non-dual meditations which we did

[45:37] in the last 3 days.

[45:39] Suppose I my guru has given me a mantra.

[45:42] Suppose it's omnashiva.

[45:44] I'm supposed to sing visualize God as

[45:47] Shiva.

[45:49] Meditate on God and repeat the mantra

[45:51] omnashiva.

[45:53] Why do that anymore? That seems like a

[45:54] lower practice.

[45:57] The non-dualists in their inner

[46:00] discussions would say it's like the rope

[46:02] you're using to tie Hanuman. You have

[46:04] got the brahastra. Do you understand the

[46:06] reference to the story? Yesterday's

[46:08] story that you have got the weapon of

[46:10] the gods which is vanta

[46:13] that I am Brahman. You've got that. Why

[46:15] go back to

[46:17] why would you do that?

[46:20] True.

[46:21] That's all right. In fact, what is uh

[46:24] recommended is you stay with this

[46:26] non-dual reality. Now,

[46:29] the mantra can only help you there.

[46:32] First of all, it'll help you to reach

[46:34] that. But it it can only help you there

[46:38] because what will trouble you? You used

[46:41] a phrase now you see the deepen

[46:43] deepening.

[46:45] So if you we are in the phase of the

[46:47] deepening

[46:49] in that case you must see what helps us

[46:52] to deepen it what helps us to stabilize

[46:55] this insight this realization

[46:57] non-dual meditation yes it does that is

[46:59] called nidhasana nondual meditation it

[47:02] does

[47:03] but you know what the mantra will do it

[47:06] does many things for you at this stage

[47:09] there's a story of the elephant walking

[47:11] through the market you have to imagine

[47:13] an Indian bazar a market and what the

[47:16] elephant does through the narrow streets

[47:18] of the market, it looks at a bunch of

[47:21] bananas there and puts its trunk there

[47:23] to catch it, you know, to steal from

[47:25] this shop, to steal from that shop,

[47:28] create chaos all around as it walks

[47:29] through the little market. So, what the

[47:32] mahood does, it puts a heavy iron ball

[47:35] on the trunk of the elephant. Now, the

[47:37] trunk of the elephant is busy with that.

[47:39] Is holding on to that. Now, it can't do

[47:41] this or that. Similarly, when you need

[47:44] the mind to be utterly steady

[47:47] at the moment when you're not absorbed

[47:49] in non-dual meditation,

[47:51] what is the best thing to to keep the

[47:54] mind steady? Keep it busy busy with the

[47:57] mantra

[47:59] which by your past practices you have

[48:00] been used to till now. So give the

[48:03] mantra to the mind. Let the mind hold on

[48:05] to the mantra. It's a divine thought.

[48:07] What better thought could there be than

[48:09] the name of God? Do you see what I'm

[48:11] saying? So let in general let the mind

[48:14] hold on to the mantra. A little bit of

[48:16] morning practice, little bit of evening

[48:18] practice in between when you are not

[48:20] doing non-dual meditation.

[48:22] Keep the mantra in the mind. Let the

[48:23] mind hold on to the mantra. It won't

[48:26] first of all at the very least it won't

[48:28] get up to mischief. It won't disturb

[48:31] your non-dual meditation.

[48:33] And you are connected to the deity by

[48:35] that mantra to God in the form of Shiva.

[48:39] So all that grace and blessings come to

[48:41] you. It it it creates a wholly elevated

[48:44] mind

[48:46] which is if you want to use it for

[48:48] non-dual meditation perfectly aminable

[48:50] to it. If at times other than non-dual

[48:55] meditation if I let it go then the mind

[48:58] will go here and there pollute itself

[49:00] create a mess and when you want to bring

[49:02] it back to non-dual meditation it will

[49:03] be a great struggle then so that's how

[49:06] the mantra helps in non-duality at times

[49:10] other than the when the mind is immersed

[49:12] in non-dual meditation

[49:14] it's very good to keep the mind in the

[49:16] mantra now second part the part of the

[49:19] question was I said all these practices

[49:23] are in some sense denial of the truth.

[49:26] What is the truth? I am Brahman. So if I

[49:29] do a practice I am acknowledging in a

[49:31] subtle way that I am not Brahman.

[49:34] All right. Yes. But this is a statement

[49:37] at the highest point. A sort of a final

[49:40] kind of statement

[49:42] is a denial of the truth. All right.

[49:44] Since the practice is a denial of the

[49:46] truth, I won't deny the truth. I won't

[49:48] do the practices.

[49:50] What will the mind do then? Will it be

[49:52] established in the truth I am Brahman?

[49:54] No, it won't. It'll get up to any number

[49:56] of mischiefs.

[49:58] Yes.

[49:59] And so these practices

[50:04] any kind of dualistic thinking is denial

[50:06] of the non-dual truth of course.

[50:09] But the mind the very structure of the

[50:11] mind the purpose of the mind is to help

[50:13] us in this world which is a dualistic

[50:15] structure. So the mind will think in a

[50:18] dualistic way. So the best kind of

[50:20] thinking for the mind are these

[50:22] practices. It could be a mantra japa. It

[50:25] could be uh devotional practice. It

[50:27] could be karma yoga. All of these

[50:30] practices yes they may be in the highest

[50:33] sense a denial of non-duality

[50:35] but they will certainly help you towards

[50:37] nonduality. Otherwise the mind will take

[50:40] up other dualistic practices which are

[50:42] worldly practices which will take you

[50:45] far away from non-duality.

[50:48] devotional practices, service,

[50:50] meditation, all of these bring us close

[50:52] to non-duality. If that's your if that's

[50:56] your path, it could be it's not your

[50:58] path. It could be your path is devotion,

[51:00] love of God. In that case, of course,

[51:01] all these practices are extremely uh

[51:04] relevant.

[51:07] So

[51:10] even if these in principle any kind of

[51:13] duality is a denial of non-duality in

[51:15] principle

[51:17] practically

[51:18] our minds will dwell in the non- in the

[51:21] dualistic realm. So it must have a

[51:24] spiritual support there otherwise

[51:26] non-duality remains a far away dream.

[51:31] Someone who is a apparently an enemy of

[51:34] would be an enemy of non-dual vanta

[51:38] nagarjuna the emptiness person

[51:42] apparently only otherwise my feeling is

[51:45] shankar and nagaraj juna was saying the

[51:46] same thing but still nagarjuna himself

[51:50] says so nagarjuna was one of the first

[51:52] to make a distinction between apparent

[51:55] truth and ultimate truth the relative

[51:57] realm and the realm of the absolute

[52:01] So he he called it paramatyam

[52:04] samiatyamara

[52:07] the absolute truth. Samriti satyam the

[52:10] relative truth in adwita vanta we call

[52:13] it paramata and vaharika the absolute

[52:17] truth and and the transactional truth.

[52:20] But what nagarjuna says is

[52:25] um

[52:30] This is a quote from the moola, the root

[52:33] verses on the middle way. Without taking

[52:36] refuge in the the relative truth, no one

[52:40] attains to the absolute truth. So one

[52:43] must take refuge in relative practices.

[52:45] This is coming from someone as radical

[52:47] as Nagarjuna.

[52:51] If one denies the importance of the

[52:54] relative truth, then what happens is

[52:57] ultimately one will become

[53:01] um one will become metaphysically one

[53:05] will become a nihilist.

[53:07] Nothing exists.

[53:10] Epistemologically one will become a

[53:12] skeptic. No knowledge is true. It's all

[53:14] false. What about vanta? Oh, that's

[53:18] false too. Everything is false

[53:21] and um and

[53:25] you know axiologically that is in terms

[53:28] of values one will become a relativist

[53:31] anything goes.

[53:34] So this I'm all taking all this from a

[53:38] great Tibetan master S kapa maybe he's

[53:41] like the shankara for Tibetan Buddhism

[53:44] for us who Adish Shankara so shanka

[53:47] in fact he revolutionized Tibetan

[53:49] Buddhism and the the order of monks to

[53:53] which the Dalai Lama belongs the galupa

[53:55] that was actually founded by Sanghapa.

[53:58] He found too much emphasis on emptiness

[54:03] which had come about in Tibetan Buddhism

[54:05] around that time about 500 years ago or

[54:08] so

[54:10] 600 years ago or so too much emphasis on

[54:13] emptiness.

[54:15] It led to a kind of they wouldn't say it

[54:17] outright because that was wrong

[54:18] according to Tibetan Buddhism but they

[54:20] would it would led to a kind of inherent

[54:21] belief in there's nothing. It's all

[54:24] nothing. It's all meaningless. It's all

[54:27] nothing.

[54:28] nailism

[54:30] that's a fault in Buddhism but the monks

[54:32] became like that second skepticism no

[54:37] knowledge is true

[54:39] and third

[54:41] um morals the the moral practices the

[54:46] disciplines of the monks became lacks

[54:48] because uh there's an inherent feeling

[54:51] that anything goes you know so what he

[54:54] did was he gave them a robust sense of

[54:57] of the uh relative truth of the

[54:59] transactional truth. Yes, emptiness is

[55:03] the ultimate reality, ultimate

[55:05] principle. They will not use the word

[55:06] reality.

[55:08] But to reach that, you need the

[55:12] eight-fold path, the right view, you

[55:15] know, the right that right values and

[55:17] meditation, all of those the eight-fold

[55:19] path, noble eight-fold paths um taught

[55:22] by the Buddha. You need the discipline

[55:24] of the um of the monastic robe. You need

[55:28] an utterly ethical life. You need the

[55:30] practice of compassion. All of these are

[55:32] necessary. Don't just say it's all

[55:34] empty. Then it just be words and it's

[55:38] disastrous for one's spiritual

[55:39] development. Then so that's why um this

[55:42] is uh all these practices including a

[55:45] very powerful practice like mantra japa

[55:48] always keep it.

[55:50] And notice if I'm not doing mantra japa,

[55:52] if I'm not doing service, if I'm not

[55:54] dwelling on the non-dual truth, what is

[55:57] my mind doing? You'll find it goes

[56:00] straight back to the worldliness.

[56:02] It goes back to our old patterns of

[56:04] thinking. That's the that's the nature

[56:06] of the mind. It runs back to what it is

[56:08] used to.

[56:11] So all these practices are a great

[56:13] safeguard and also a great boost for

[56:16] your spiritual life. Yes,

[56:19] you. Yes.

[56:22] Unless you've forgotten your question.

[56:32] >> Yes.

[56:32] >> Rojanna from Ukraine. Um so my question

[56:37] is about um person who reaches

[56:39] enlightenment.

[56:41] Um what would this person do in life?

[56:44] Would they sit and bliss or teach others

[56:47] or um maybe live normal life?

[56:51] >> Yes, [snorts]

[56:51] please sit. So suppose you reach

[56:54] enlightenment. What next? What can I

[56:56] expect?

[56:58] Yes. First you expect that what is

[57:02] promised? Um overcoming of sorrow and

[57:06] attainment of deep lasting fulfillment

[57:08] that should come. Until you get that

[57:10] don't stop. Don't uh accept anything

[57:12] less than that.

[57:14] And then what would such a person do?

[57:18] Um there are

[57:20] three kinds of um enlightened beings in

[57:25] on one analysis. There are multiple

[57:26] analysis also three kinds.

[57:30] One kind is the one who remains immersed

[57:33] in bliss.

[57:36] Sri Ramach Krishna used to say they

[57:37] would remain immersed in samadhi and

[57:39] they would never ever come out and after

[57:41] some time the body would drop off the

[57:43] body would die because you're not

[57:45] feeding it you're not taking care of it

[57:46] so it'll die and they don't care if they

[57:50] clearly see that I'm not the body they

[57:52] clearly see it it's not nothing to them

[57:54] so that's one kind and you might not

[57:56] even know about such people there are

[57:58] such people and they just they just

[58:00] disappear from samsara we don't know

[58:03] they don't see any more of

[58:06] Um there is the second kind

[58:09] who come back look back upon samsara but

[58:12] they look upon it as a wonder how one

[58:15] limitless existence consciousness place

[58:18] one ocean of Brahman is appearing as

[58:20] this diverse world it is literally

[58:23] Brahman it's literally pure

[58:25] consciousness appearing as men and women

[58:27] as buildings as sky and earth as stars

[58:31] and planets as atoms and molecules What

[58:34] a wonder. How amazing is this display?

[58:38] They see it as a magical display. So

[58:41] these usually become what are called the

[58:43] mad men of God. The mad people of God.

[58:45] They look like crazy. They and you find

[58:48] them in every religion.

[58:50] They are often they not that every crazy

[58:52] person is enlightened.

[58:54] But the second category of enlightened

[58:56] person may be with us but may not be of

[59:00] much use to us because they're so

[59:02] immersed in that.

[59:05] Um

[59:07] Sri Ramak Krishna talked about a great

[59:09] master who came to the Kali temple of

[59:11] Dakshineshwar and he would remain all

[59:14] day long. This monk would remain in his

[59:16] hut meditating all day long. Once in a

[59:19] while he would come out of the hut and

[59:20] see the river, the temple, the sky, the

[59:23] clouds and say in you know Hindi wah wah

[59:27] wonderful wonderful or American wow and

[59:30] then go back and we start meditating

[59:32] again.

[59:34] So that's the second category. Yes they

[59:36] are here they don't disappear but uh

[59:40] it we it's difficult for us to

[59:42] comprehend them.

[59:46] They are

[59:48] utterly so far above us but they are

[59:51] very powerful. So sometimes if you do

[59:54] get in touch with such a person or their

[59:55] grace is upon you, you can immediately

[59:58] you know confer at least spiritual

[59:59] progress upon us if if not enlightenment

[1:00:01] upon us. There such people are there

[1:00:03] very few. The third category is the most

[1:00:07] important especially for us is the one

[1:00:09] who looks back upon samsara after

[1:00:11] enlightenment looks back upon samsara

[1:00:14] with compassion.

[1:00:16] Compassion rises in them that these poor

[1:00:19] people who will help them who will show

[1:00:21] them the way to this amazing thing which

[1:00:23] I have found. So Sri Ramach Krishna

[1:00:25] would tell the parable of three friends

[1:00:27] who went on a journey and they found a a

[1:00:30] tall wall, a long tall wall and they

[1:00:33] were curious what's on the other side.

[1:00:36] So one of them climbed up with great

[1:00:37] difficulty and he went to the top and he

[1:00:40] started dancing. He saw something on the

[1:00:42] other side started dancing in joy and

[1:00:43] said wonderful, great, wonderful, this

[1:00:45] is amazing. And he jumped over on the

[1:00:47] other side and disappeared. And these

[1:00:48] two were

[1:00:50] what? [laughter]

[1:00:52] And the second person climbed over and

[1:00:54] he started dancing in joy and said wow

[1:00:56] wonderful. And he jumped over and

[1:00:58] disappeared. Now only the third person

[1:01:00] was left. He thought what what did they

[1:01:02] see? And he also climbed with great

[1:01:04] difficulty. On the other side he saw

[1:01:06] there's a festival in Hindi there's a

[1:01:08] word mea. It's a it's a village

[1:01:11] festival. So there is food and fun like

[1:01:14] a carnival. So a lot of fun is going on.

[1:01:17] It's really wonderful. And he was about

[1:01:19] to join his friends. Jump down on that

[1:01:22] side and join the fun. Then he thought,

[1:01:24] "But the poor people in my village. They

[1:01:27] live such hard lives. Who will tell them

[1:01:29] about this wonderful place of great joy

[1:01:32] and fun if I too jump over?" So he

[1:01:35] didn't jump. He turned around and he

[1:01:38] walked back all the way back to the

[1:01:39] village to call people come with me. I

[1:01:41] will show you the way out of suffering

[1:01:43] and sorrow. So those are the great

[1:01:45] masters, spiritual masters of humanity.

[1:01:48] the founders of religions, the masters

[1:01:51] of these various spiritual orders, the

[1:01:53] the enlightened ones who come and teach

[1:01:55] us. Thank God for that. Otherwise, if

[1:01:58] all the enlightened ones were to

[1:02:00] disappear, then who would be an

[1:02:02] authentic teacher? Because all the

[1:02:03] teachers would be unenlightened

[1:02:05] teachers.

[1:02:06] So, the enlightened ones are also

[1:02:08] teachers and that's wonderful.

[1:02:11] So, these are the three kinds of of uh

[1:02:15] enlightened beings. one analysis. Yes.

[1:02:18] Last question.

[1:02:32] Thank you for being here. Um so my

[1:02:35] question is um on the matter of

[1:02:38] semantics actually because I have this

[1:02:41] impression that the words that we use

[1:02:43] can either help us to illumin or they

[1:02:47] can uh get us even in more trouble.

[1:02:50] >> So if we switch from saying that I am

[1:02:54] this or I am that or that is real and

[1:02:56] that is not real. If I say that in

[1:03:00] honesty to my experience I identify with

[1:03:04] this body with this that has a feeling

[1:03:06] of pain and pleasure but I know that is

[1:03:10] temporary that's not the ultimate

[1:03:12] reality. So through different means of

[1:03:15] knowledge or self inquiry I get the idea

[1:03:19] that this is not it but I identify with

[1:03:23] this and in the paradigm that you gave

[1:03:26] that object plus subject equals

[1:03:28] experience right

[1:03:30] >> experience

[1:03:31] >> consciousness plus object is equal to

[1:03:32] experience yes that's true

[1:03:34] >> experience that which I experience I

[1:03:37] cannot say it's not real I feel the pain

[1:03:39] I feel the pleasure I feel that which I

[1:03:41] experience but I can know It is not

[1:03:43] ultimately real because I know that this

[1:03:46] experience is limited and to it too

[1:03:48] shall end I will die and all this right.

[1:03:51] So if we switch to I identify with this

[1:03:56] and what can I say? Can I say that I am

[1:03:59] that consciousness? Can I identify with

[1:04:01] that? I cannot really identify with that

[1:04:03] one consciousness. So I can say maybe I

[1:04:06] surrender to that. I am this limited

[1:04:09] personality. I identify with this but I

[1:04:12] surrender to that consciousness. I

[1:04:15] surrender to that which I know to be

[1:04:17] greater than this.

[1:04:19] >> Yes.

[1:04:21] The answer to your questions would be

[1:04:23] the straight answer would be yes.

[1:04:26] Um but one thing I want to point out you

[1:04:28] said I cannot dismiss experience as not

[1:04:31] real as unreal. I cannot dismiss it. You

[1:04:34] cannot because it is not unreal. It is

[1:04:36] real. Notice experience is not unreal.

[1:04:40] Experience. If you analyze experience,

[1:04:42] there are two parts to it. Consciousness

[1:04:44] plus object is equal to experience.

[1:04:47] Awareness plus an object to awareness

[1:04:49] gives rise to experience.

[1:04:51] And that awareness part of it, the

[1:04:53] consciousness part of it, Vanta says

[1:04:55] that is real.

[1:04:57] What is an appearance is the object

[1:05:00] because literally the object appears to

[1:05:02] consciousness and that produces

[1:05:04] experience. So the experience is a

[1:05:06] mixture of the real and the unreal.

[1:05:08] experience you cannot you cannot dismiss

[1:05:11] you cannot throw out the baby with the

[1:05:13] bathwater you cannot dismiss experience

[1:05:15] as unreal because there is a real

[1:05:17] component to it the reality according to

[1:05:19] ada vanta is consciousness that's right

[1:05:22] there anyway but your question was not

[1:05:24] that was that after all this I still

[1:05:27] feel I am this body mind I understand

[1:05:32] the analysis but it feels so real that I

[1:05:36] am this then what do do can I now say

[1:05:40] that that pure consciousness you're

[1:05:42] talking about that one consciousness

[1:05:44] that that great reality from which the

[1:05:46] universe emerges can I surrender to it

[1:05:49] can I relate to it yes and that is the

[1:05:52] path of bacti that is the path of

[1:05:55] devotion that is the path generally

[1:05:57] recommended by the great theistic

[1:05:59] religions of the world

[1:06:02] so in Christianity in Islam Judaism in

[1:06:07] the bhi traditions in Hinduism. It's not

[1:06:10] that they don't understand non-duality.

[1:06:12] They understand it, but they push it to

[1:06:14] the margin. They see here's where we are

[1:06:16] at right now. And now here is a deity,

[1:06:20] God, father in heaven or Allah or Shiva

[1:06:25] or David, divine mother. Now you take

[1:06:28] refuge in it. That God is none other

[1:06:30] than pure consciousness.

[1:06:32] The same pure consciousness with

[1:06:34] attributes. So there are terms. Please

[1:06:35] sit.

[1:06:36] >> I want to say one more

[1:06:37] >> follow up. Yes.

[1:06:38] >> Yeah. Just that uh even Adishankar who

[1:06:41] is a great proponent of advantage

[1:06:46] of his life even he wrote the Bhavani

[1:06:49] and he said

[1:06:51] toi

[1:06:53] you mother you alone are my only refuge

[1:06:55] he didn't say braha brahan is my only

[1:06:58] not at a later stage [laughter]

[1:07:00] >> thank you swami so he wrote that and

[1:07:03] there is no conflict

[1:07:05] there is a conflict from from the

[1:07:07] dualistic schools towards non-duality.

[1:07:10] There's a conflict from the dualistic

[1:07:12] schools towards non-duality. The

[1:07:13] dualistic schools are are unwilling to

[1:07:17] accept the truth of non-duality.

[1:07:20] But the non-dual schools

[1:07:23] uh they have no problems with duality.

[1:07:26] So shankarachara for example has no

[1:07:29] problems in worshiing the bhavanashtakam

[1:07:32] worshiing the divine mother or worshiing

[1:07:34] shiva or worshiing vishnu. Whereas if

[1:07:37] you see the vishnavaras the dualistic

[1:07:40] acharas they will write many hymns to

[1:07:42] god in their particular deity not to um

[1:07:47] god understood as other deity. So

[1:07:49] vishnavara will never write a hymn to

[1:07:52] god as the divine mother. A shakta

[1:07:55] achara the one who worships God as shy

[1:07:57] will never write a hymn to god as

[1:08:00] Vishnu.

[1:08:02] So and none of them will ever write a

[1:08:04] hymn to non-duality. [laughter]

[1:08:07] So moment you are in a dualistic mode um

[1:08:10] it becomes immediately exclusive.

[1:08:13] Gorapada says these schools dualistic

[1:08:16] schools they fight with each other but

[1:08:19] we have no quarrel with any of them.

[1:08:22] Virant they contradict each other and

[1:08:23] hence they fight with each other. If my

[1:08:26] idea about God is that that it is Vishnu

[1:08:29] it's very difficult for me to understand

[1:08:30] that's also Shiva. But if your idea

[1:08:34] about the ultimate reality is non-dual

[1:08:36] Brahman. You can easily say that that

[1:08:38] same reality under the conditions of you

[1:08:41] know the attributes maya it can be

[1:08:44] Vishnu it can be Shiva it can be the

[1:08:46] Christian father in heaven and all of

[1:08:48] them are the same reality and they are

[1:08:51] all um you know they're all

[1:08:55] they're all woripped they can all be

[1:08:57] woripped and with great benefit right so

[1:09:01] the non-dual perspective gives you

[1:09:04] non-duality

[1:09:05] and all the benefits of the dualistic

[1:09:07] schools and a liberality to see the

[1:09:10] truth in all the devotional schools also

[1:09:12] you have no problem with that as you

[1:09:14] pointed out Shankara the great

[1:09:15] non-dualist he wrote a whole plethora of

[1:09:19] of extraordinary hymns to the various

[1:09:23] ways in which God is woripped in

[1:09:25] Hinduism

[1:09:27] that m the reason why he could do it is

[1:09:30] his non-duality

[1:09:34] the saying that uh he finally worshiped

[1:09:38] the divine mother and he did not finally

[1:09:40] say I am Brahman. That is a dualistic

[1:09:43] understanding of Shankarachara. The

[1:09:45] dualist will be forced to say well he

[1:09:47] started off by saying I am Shivohham I

[1:09:50] am Shiva but finally he realized I am

[1:09:52] just the child of the divine mother and

[1:09:54] he stopped saying that nonsense that I

[1:09:55] am Shiva. That was Shankarachara's arc

[1:09:58] of development. No no no

[1:10:00] that just shows the limitation of my

[1:10:03] understanding. That is not Shankara's

[1:10:05] understanding. You have to think about

[1:10:07] take it as it exists. Shankara's works

[1:10:10] take it as they exist and say what kind

[1:10:13] of mind what kind of realization would

[1:10:15] make it all true. only the non-dual

[1:10:18] realization

[1:10:20] that I am Brahman and as Shankara as

[1:10:24] this person Shankara I am the child of

[1:10:26] the divine mother or equally the

[1:10:28] worshipper of Shiva or equally the one

[1:10:31] who sings to Jagnat in Puri Jagat Swami

[1:10:34] Nayapatagami Babatu may oh lord Jagnath

[1:10:38] please thou appear be before my eyes

[1:10:43] what makes it possible for him to do

[1:10:45] that

[1:10:46] [snorts]

[1:10:47] it's that non-dual realization.

[1:10:50] Yes.

[1:10:52] But the as you said the truth of the

[1:10:55] dualistic approach is important.

[1:10:59] It's very difficult to sit at the top of

[1:11:01] the Everest. Yes, non-duality is the top

[1:11:04] of the Everest. But the top of the

[1:11:06] Everest is also a very inhospitable

[1:11:07] place. It's extremely cold up there.

[1:11:11] Very difficult to breathe up there.

[1:11:14] Viveanti said that these ancient

[1:11:15] thinkers is such bold thinkers where

[1:11:19] human lung and scarce breathe

[1:11:23] and so the beautiful valleys full of

[1:11:26] flowers and trees and greenery of

[1:11:30] dualistic devotion those are also true

[1:11:32] they are not false

[1:11:35] and one can happily dwell on them Sri

[1:11:37] Ramach Krishna his that his answer is is

[1:11:40] he gives the answer to your question

[1:11:42] we'll give him The final word Sri Ramach

[1:11:45] Krishna said

[1:11:47] after attaining to non-dual truth spend

[1:11:50] the rest of your life with God love of

[1:11:54] God and the lovers of God. And then he

[1:11:56] said this is the ripe opinion a this is

[1:11:59] the ripe opinion.

[1:12:01] So after attaining to the heights of

[1:12:03] non-dual truth you know what the reality

[1:12:05] is but then you spend life in joy. Joy

[1:12:10] comes from bacti, from devotion, from

[1:12:12] love and surrender. Yes. Before the

[1:12:15] non-dual truth, if you hold on to that

[1:12:17] and don't move any further, then what

[1:12:19] will happen is you miss out on

[1:12:20] non-duality and also fall a possible

[1:12:22] prey to fanaticism.

[1:12:25] This is true. Everything else is pro

[1:12:26] false. True non-duality come back to

[1:12:29] devotion. Another great Okay, final

[1:12:31] word. Another great master, he put it

[1:12:34] very beautifully.

[1:12:36] Um

[1:12:38] bodham

[1:12:40] before enlightenment before the

[1:12:42] realization of nondual truth um duality

[1:12:46] leads to delusion

[1:12:50] once enlightenment is reached wisdom is

[1:12:52] reached

[1:12:58] a projected duality for the sake of love

[1:13:02] is more beautiful than non-duality.

[1:13:04] Before

[1:13:07] non-dual realization, duality will put

[1:13:10] you in delusion into samsara.

[1:13:12] After non-dual realization, if you

[1:13:14] project a duality because duality still

[1:13:17] appears, use it for love, for devotion.

[1:13:20] After nonduality,

[1:13:22] this is it's more beautiful than

[1:13:24] non-duality is more sublime than

[1:13:26] non-duality.

[1:13:28] That I love thee knowing that you and I

[1:13:30] are one.

[1:13:32] How wonderful. Then I can never lose

[1:13:35] thee also because you and I are one

[1:13:37] reality. All the ideas of love that we

[1:13:41] will eternally will be together. It's

[1:13:43] true from the non-dual perspective. You

[1:13:46] are one reality. Good. That's a very

[1:13:49] nice point to end on.

[1:14:06] I pray to that one Lord worshiped in all

[1:14:10] religions of the world which we realize

[1:14:13] our our very own self in the non-dual

[1:14:15] path that one divinity I pray may grace

[1:14:19] be upon us may protection be upon us

[1:14:22] [snorts] may we be be blessed with

[1:14:24] devotion knowledge

[1:14:26] dispassion, wisdom in this life itself.

[1:14:30] Peace.

[1:14:37] [music]

[1:14:39] >> [bell]

[1:14:44] [music]

[1:14:45] [bell]

ArtistSuryalila Retreat Centre

Founded in 2007 by master teacher Vidya Heisel in the Andalusian hills near Seville, Suryalila is a 45-acre working olive farm turned award-winning yoga retreat. Voted Europe's bes…

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What is the difference between the knower and the known in Advaita Vedanta?

In Advaita Vedanta, the knower (Kshetrajna) is consciousness—the eternal witness that experiences all objects. The known (Kshetra) is the field of all experience: the body, senses, mind, thoughts, and perceptions. Crucially, these two must be fundamentally different. The eye cannot see itself, the mind cannot know itself without becoming an object, and consciousness cannot be an object of knowledge. This distinction is the heart of the teaching.

If my mind experiences my thoughts, what is experiencing the mind itself?

This points to consciousness as distinct from the mind. Your thoughts are experienced—they are objects of awareness. But the awareness itself (consciousness) cannot be an object, because the moment it becomes an object, something else must be aware of it. This infinite regress is avoided by recognizing that consciousness is the eternal subject that can never become an object. It is the witness of all mental phenomena, not the mind itself.

How does recognizing non-duality end suffering?

Suffering arises from misidentifying yourself with the mind and body, which are constantly changing and subject to loss. This creates the illusion of separation and the sense of being a limited, vulnerable individual. When you recognize yourself as the eternal knower—consciousness itself—this false identification dissolves. You realize you are not the person that suffers; you are the unchanging witness of all experience. This does not require suffering to end; it is the ending of suffering.

Can non-duality realization be achieved through meditation or practice alone?

While meditation can clarify and calm the mind, realization comes through understanding—through the direct recognition of what you are not and therefore what you must be. The knower can never become an object of practice or technique. Realization is the recognition of what is already true: that consciousness, which you are, is non-dual and eternal. Practice removes obstacles to this recognition, but the recognition itself is instantaneous and non-temporal.

What does it mean that consciousness appears as many through different minds?

Just as the sun is reflected in many ponds, appearing as many suns yet remaining one sun, consciousness appears to be many different experiencers through different minds. But consciousness itself—the knower—is one, eternal, and unchanging. The apparent multiplicity of individual consciousnesses is an illusion created by identification with individual minds. In truth, there is only one consciousness, and that is what you are.

Is non-duality the same as materialism where everything is one substance?

No. Non-duality is not materialism. Materialism claims everything is made of one material substance, which contradicts our actual experience of consciousness. Non-duality recognizes that beneath the apparent multiplicity of minds and egos, there is one consciousness—distinct from matter, not physical, not an object—that is the eternal knower of all experience. This is the opposite of materialism.

What is nidhasana, the non-dual meditation described in the teachings?

Nidhasana is not meditation on an object, even a divine one. In non-dual meditation, a mantra or divine thought serves as a pointer back to the knower rather than focusing the mind on something. It is the practice of turning attention to the witnessing presence itself—that which is aware of all experience, always present, untouched by any mental activity. It is not achieving something new but recognizing what is already the case.

If I am already the knower, why don't I realize it?

You are already the knower, but this is obscured by the false belief that you are the mind and body—objects within the field. This misidentification seems so obvious and automatic that it goes unquestioned. The teaching and inquiry simply work to clearly distinguish between the knower and the known, between consciousness and all objects of experience. When this distinction becomes clear, the false identification loses its power, and what you always are becomes obvious.

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The Knower and theField: Non-Duality Realized

The Field and the Knower: A Grammar of Consciousness

When the Mind Itself Becomes the Object

The Paradox of the Witness

From Many Minds to One Consciousness

The Liberation Already Present

The Practical Teaching: Nidhasana

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Preguntas Frecuentes

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The Field and the Knower: A Grammar of Consciousness

When the Mind Itself Becomes the Object

The Paradox of the Witness

From Many Minds to One Consciousness

The Liberation Already Present

The Practical Teaching: Nidhasana

Where to go from here

Comments

Transcript

Non-Duality Realization: The Self Beyond Mind and Matter

Non-Duality Realization: Living One Spiritual Life

The Mental Burden Behind Every Problem You Carry

Interfaith Prayer and Sacred Sound Unity

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