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Inspiration

Why Thinking Feels Like Suffering: The Default Mode Network

GW
Gary Weber
Sep 27, 2015
8 min de lectura

De Gary Weber

Ver · 8

Picture a graduate student walking onto campus, mid-PhD, when the ordinary noise of the mind suddenly becomes visible. That moment, and what followed from it, is where Gary Weber begins his talk "The End of Suffering and the Default Mode Network," recorded in front of a live audience at Heart of Art in Hamilton, New Jersey, and posted to YouTube in 2015 as part of the Non-Dual Couch series. Weber, who has written Happiness Beyond Thought and Dancing Beyond Thought, argues that much of our suffering is not caused by events at all but by a constantly running stream of self-referencing thought, and that this stream has a physical basis in how the brain stores and recalls experience. His method is unusual for a spiritual talk: he sets aside scripture and philosophy, asks for contemporary sources, and insists that every claim be testable on your own nervous system.

Leer · 6 secciones

What did Gary Weber actually notice on that walk to campus?

He describes an epiphany, a step-back moment in which he could look at what was going on in his own consciousness. "It wasn't pretty," he says, and he characterizes the inner monologue as endless, unproductive, and draining: "blah blah about nothing worthwhile whatsoever." The point is not that this chatter is unusual. It is that nearly everyone has been there, carrying a constant background agitation of worries, storylines, and attachments that consumes energy and bandwidth.

Weber then makes the case that the discomfort is universal, and he points to a study published in Science, which he cites to show how unpleasant unstructured time with one's own thoughts can be. According to his account, researchers at the University of Virginia put 150 undergraduates alone in a large room with no devices, only their own minds to keep them company. Most found it painful within about 12 to 15 minutes. The researchers repeated the setup with townspeople, with similar results. (Weber, at roughly 1:50: "sitting alone by themselves was excruciatingly unhappy.")

The most striking detail came at the end. Participants were offered a small electric shock they could deliver to themselves at any time. Weber reports that most of the men chose to shock themselves at least once, and about a quarter of the women did, rather than remain alone with their thoughts. For him, this is the core evidence: the mind's chatter is so aversive that people will accept pain to escape it.

He ties this to a line often attributed to Blaise Pascal, which Weber uses as a practical test. If you can sit alone in a room and be at ease with yourself, you have a sense of where you stand on your own path. If you cannot, the discomfort is the information.

How did an empirical search for an end to suffering begin?

Weber's stated criteria were deliberately narrow. He wanted a secular process, no religion, no philosophy, and no scriptures handed down through "so many hands and so many languages" that their original meaning is lost. He wanted contemporary sources, videos and writing from people who had actually done the work, and he wanted to be empirical: "do the exact experiments myself and see if they work for me." The final test was whether he could still function in the real world.

The first experiments, as he describes them, were almost childish in their simplicity. He watched his thoughts for about five minutes at a time and sorted them into two imaginary buckets: one for thoughts that carried the "I," the me, my concerns, my worries, and one for thoughts without that marker. The result was not subtle. The I bucket was full. He encourages listeners to try the same exercise themselves, and it is worth doing before reading further, because the rest of his argument depends on whether that bucket fills for you too.

Where does the "I" come from?

Weber's answer is developmental. He says that around the age of one there is no "I" in a child; the young child is simply having a good time, hanging out and exploring the world. Somewhere between one and two and a half, the "I" manifests. It is shaped by genetics, conditioning, family, friends, and environment, and even by when and where you were born.

He uses a vivid image to describe what happens next. Imagine a central post, the core "I" unit, and a flood of Post-it notes flying past it. Each note is an experience. Most never stick. A tiny fraction adheres to the post, and those that do become a memory that feeds into the "I" going forward. By your late twenties, he suggests, the post is covered in haphazardly assembled stories about yourself, some from a grandmother, some from a gym coach, all of them about what other people think you are. Those stories then get treated as the truth about who you are.

"You probably all know there is no little person sitting around in the center of the brain as an I."

(Weber, at roughly 9:25)

Why do some experiences stick and others do not? Weber cites research suggesting that the brain's theta rhythms play a role. An experience that falls out of phase with the predominant theta frequency at that moment may not be stored at all, however important it seemed. In other words, what gets remembered is partly a matter of timing in the brain's electrical rhythms, not just significance. You have little control over that process.

Why doesn't memory work like a filing cabinet?

Many people imagine memories as files in one secure place, retrievable in exactly the same form each time. Weber argues this is wrong. Memories are scattered across the cortex: sensory memories, motor memories, and emotional associations are stored in different places and assembled when needed. When you walk into a supermarket, the brain grabs everything it can find about supermarkets and binds them together.

He connects this to evolution. Sixty thousand years ago, on the African veld, a person returning to a watering hole did not need a precise record of the last visit. What mattered was a loose grouping of what was dangerous and what was safe. That flexible binding was a survival tool. Its cost is that we cannot reliably return to a discrete event and recall it exactly.

His most vivid example is 9/11. He cites tests in which people were asked, a year later, how they had felt on the day. Their recollections tracked their present mood. Those who were happy at the time of the question remembered themselves as having been happy on 9/11, and those who were depressed remembered being depressed. Weber's point is that our memory of the past is largely a reconstruction shaped by the story we are telling now, which is exactly why the "I" story feels so solid and is so unreliable.

What does this have to do with the default mode network?

The title places the self-referencing stream in the context of the default mode network, the set of brain regions that tends to be active when we are not focused on an external task, particularly when we are thinking about ourselves, our past, and our future. Weber frames the network as the physiological home of the "I" process. Much of his later material, including the second half of the talk, moves toward neuroimaging and into research on psychedelics, which he describes as producing dramatic changes in how the network behaves. Weber's own account of those findings is brief in the portion available here, so readers should treat his summary as an opening for further study rather than a complete literature review.

What matters for the broader argument is the practical implication. If the "I" is a pattern of stored and reconstructed associations rather than a fixed entity, then suffering that flows from it can be approached as a process to observe and loosen, not as a verdict on who you are. That is the heart of Weber's program, and it is why he returns to the simplest instruction: watch your thoughts, and see which bucket fills.

Where to go from here

If this talk has you curious, start with the same experiment Weber describes. Sit for five minutes, note the thoughts that carry an "I," and notice how quickly the stream returns after you lose it. Then go to the source material he points to. His book Happiness Beyond Thought: A Practical Guide to Awakening is available free online through Scribd and in paperback, and the author's website, happiness-beyond-thought.com, lists his MP3 downloads, blog, and interviews. Dancing Beyond Thought offers Bhagavad Gita verses and dialogues on awakening, while Into the Stillness, written with Rich Doyle, presents his ideas in conversational form. For the neuroscience, the Science and Nonduality conference panels he has taken part in are a good next step, and his interview on BATGAP extends the argument in a longer format. The talk is best read as an invitation: a claim about the mind, offered with a test you can run yourself.

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Transcript

[0:28] who

[0:42] you'll have one member of the audience

[0:45] who has overdue three days so she gets

[0:50] up and runs out it wasn't because of the

[0:52] talk this is what we're going what I'm

[0:58] gonna start with rich and I today are

[0:59] going to talk about the end of suffering

[1:01] and my whole journey started trying to

[1:04] end my own suffering I was in graduate

[1:07] school walking's worked my PhD walking

[1:09] into campus and I had one of those

[1:11] epiphanies step-back moments and I could

[1:14] look and see what was going on in this

[1:15] consciousness and it wasn't pretty

[1:18] we're just never ending I call blah blah

[1:20] about nothing worthwhile whatsoever

[1:23] tremendously non-productive

[1:26] and draining what it does we've all been

[1:31] there you have this immense suffering

[1:34] the rising agitated aggravated by this

[1:36] blah blah consumes a lot of energy and

[1:40] bandwidth caused a lot of fears anxiety

[1:42] etc and it's really focused on our

[1:44] attachment the fact that this is was

[1:47] painful to me is not unique in fact

[1:50] there was a good study done at UVA a

[1:52] very recent study published in science

[1:55] at Pier one Journal that looked at just

[1:58] how unpleasant this blahblah is to

[2:00] people they took 150 UVA undergraduates

[2:04] and set them one the time in a big room

[2:06] said okay you can't have any devices

[2:09] nothing to do except just sit there and

[2:11] be at peace with your own thoughts and

[2:16] what they found was that it wasn't

[2:19] peaceful 12 to 15 minutes for each one

[2:22] person sitting alone by themselves was

[2:24] excruciating ly unhappy I'm painful to

[2:26] them I thought one being it's just the

[2:28] students let's just go try it on some

[2:30] townspeople pride the townspeople same

[2:32] thing happen they were also really

[2:34] unhappy by having to sit there just with

[2:36] their own thoughts though the coup de

[2:38] Gras at the very end was they said let's

[2:40] just take

[2:41] how many undergraduates we're gonna hook

[2:42] them up with a little bracelet goes to

[2:45] an anklet it'll shock them with a

[2:47] painful shock so if they get too you

[2:51] know carried away by their blah blah

[2:53] we'll give them the opportunity to

[2:54] stimulate themselves in a way that will

[2:56] take them out of doing this surely they

[2:58] won't shock themselves at the painful

[3:00] level just to not have to listen to the

[3:02] blah blah but in fact most of the men

[3:05] did and a quarter of the women did so

[3:07] women are smarter than men

[3:08] but people really do not like this and

[3:11] so it isn't unique that we are going

[3:14] after it as a way to eliminate this and

[3:16] if we can decrease our suffering Blaise

[3:22] Pascal heard him probably this is one of

[3:25] his summary comments this idea that if

[3:29] you can you be comfortable with yourself

[3:30] just sitting in a room alone it's a good

[3:32] test of yourself just where you are in

[3:35] your path towards whatever you're

[3:37] passing towards just suit by yourself in

[3:40] a room and see if you're okay with that

[3:41] do you like what you see or do you not

[3:45] like what you see you're really unhappy

[3:46] and uneasy being there just all by

[3:48] yourself so my idea was to see if I

[3:52] could come on some kind of a way to

[3:54] figure this out myself I didn't know if

[3:57] you could stop those thoughts I thought

[3:59] it'd be great if we could but I didn't

[4:00] know it was possible so I just set off I

[4:03] said well I want a secular process no

[4:05] religion no philosophy contemporary

[4:08] sources I don't want any scriptures been

[4:10] passed down through 2500 or 2,000 years

[4:13] or a thousand years that's been through

[4:15] so many hands and so many languages I

[4:17] really have no idea what they said I

[4:19] want contemporary sources videos I want

[4:23] writing the deep the person actually did

[4:25] he or she did and it wanted to be very

[4:26] empirical about it do the exact

[4:29] experiments myself see if they work for

[4:32] me that's my only criteria that's what I

[4:35] did and I had to be I say at the end of

[4:38] it hopefully functioning in the real

[4:40] world so could I stop my thoughts a blah

[4:42] blah referencing narrative and could I

[4:45] function in the real world it wasn't I

[4:47] wasn't sure all that was possible but I

[4:49] set out to do that and what I did was

[4:53] very simple almost childish type

[4:56] experiments I just watched my thoughts

[4:59] for like five minutes you can do this

[5:01] yourself today you can do this yourself

[5:04] I just watched an iPad two buckets at an

[5:07] IME my bucket and a bucket that doesn't

[5:10] have I'm you my thoughts in it and I

[5:12] just saw which bucket got filled up you

[5:14] could actually put the buckets till the

[5:16] top bond out not surprisingly that in

[5:20] fact the I bucket was full it was

[5:23] nothing in the know I mean my bucket it

[5:26] is all about us those thoughts are all

[5:29] about our I me my concerns attachments

[5:32] worries fears storylines you asked

[5:37] yourself how do we build these eyes that

[5:39] we all run around with and you get

[5:42] shamed yelled at complained about how do

[5:46] we build this thing

[5:47] we've all had if you've had kids you

[5:49] know that there isn't an eye at

[5:51] one-year-old they're just having a good

[5:53] time they're just hanging out they're

[5:55] just exploring their world someplace

[5:57] between there and to two and a half and

[5:59] I manifests on the scene this eye is

[6:02] heavily generated by genetics

[6:04] conditioning family friends environment

[6:08] when and where you were born that

[6:10] central post is this core I unit what we

[6:14] have then arguably is going forward a

[6:17] bunch of post-it notes flying past this

[6:20] central post these post-it notes either

[6:23] stick to the post and they make up a

[6:25] memory that becomes I me my going

[6:27] forward or they don't stick without of a

[6:30] huge number of post-it notes a very tiny

[6:32] fraction sticks to that post and that

[6:34] becomes who we are what happens you can

[6:38] recognize this the time you're in your

[6:40] late 20s you have a stick just full of

[6:43] post-it notes all kinds of haphazardly

[6:45] assembled stories about yourself from

[6:47] grandma or grandpa or your gym coach

[6:50] whatever about what you what they think

[6:52] you are

[6:55] you ask well how does the brain actually

[6:59] sort out the one things that stick and

[7:01] the ones that don't stick because

[7:03] similar experiences may affect you or

[7:06] may not affect you turns out a good

[7:08] study on this one oh and the nature

[7:10] another big up dear journal if so aren't

[7:13] that the theta frequencies passing

[7:15] across the brain if you happen to have

[7:17] an experience out of phase with the

[7:20] predominant theta frequency at that time

[7:22] you won't store it no matter how

[7:24] important it was the brain just

[7:26] arbitrarily has this running and some

[7:30] are kept and some are not kept and you

[7:32] you have no control over that where

[7:37] memories are stored I think we have many

[7:38] of us this concept that's into some kind

[7:40] of a file folder somewhere some giant

[7:43] hard drive inside that stores he's in

[7:45] one place very securely so we can always

[7:47] get the same pull back out and put back

[7:49] out not the case in fact the brain just

[7:53] flings the memories all over the brain

[7:55] all over the cortex not surprisingly

[7:58] because you have sensory memories you

[8:00] have motor memories you have all kind of

[8:02] Posada remembers you're tied to they're

[8:05] stuck in different places and what we

[8:07] have found through a lot of research is

[8:09] that the brain goes out and we've come

[8:11] to the situation says look I'm going to

[8:13] walk down the supermarket the brain

[8:15] grabs everything it can find on the

[8:18] supermarket and sticks them together we

[8:21] were back in the African veld 60,000

[8:23] years ago when you came down to the

[8:24] watering hole it didn't matter exactly

[8:27] what you had seen last time it only

[8:29] mattered to what memories did I have

[8:31] this watering hole that might have been

[8:33] a bad thing but just grouped those

[8:36] together that was a survival tool but

[8:38] our ability to go back to any discrete

[8:40] event like 9/11 and recall exactly what

[8:43] we saw two or three years later as close

[8:46] to zero

[8:46] they ran these tests on 9/11 nine twelve

[8:50] and one year after 9/11 and said okay

[8:53] what did you feel like on 9/11 a year

[8:56] later all that mattered was how you felt

[8:58] then not how you felt at 9/11 you were

[9:02] happy now you imagined you were happy at

[9:04] 9/11

[9:05] if you were sad and depressed now you

[9:07] imagined you were sad depressed of 9/11

[9:09] we have very poor recall the legal

[9:12] system is beginning to take us into

[9:14] consideration but this is a big deal for

[9:16] plaintiffs attorneys looking for where

[9:20] this eye is you probably all know there

[9:22] is no little person sitting around in

[9:25] the center of the brain as an eye there

[9:28] are many many functionalities whether I

[9:31] comes up comes into use and manifest

[9:34] these are just three different

[9:35] categories that this Damacio is famous

[9:37] scientists neuroscientists came up with

[9:40] you can see different categories of

[9:43] thoughts different categories of Imus

[9:45] are all over the brain there is no I

[9:48] anywhere it's just the waves sweeping

[9:51] across the cortex and generating on an

[9:53] ad-hoc basis different feelings of an

[9:56] eye you can also do this little drill

[9:59] which is look the same three buckets

[10:01] this time when a group your buckets into

[10:04] thoughts about the past thoughts about

[10:06] the future and thoughts about now you

[10:09] look at the thoughts you're the same

[10:11] thing will happen you'll notice that the

[10:12] thoughts about the past is a huge full

[10:15] bucket tossed about the future

[10:17] huge full bucket thoughts about now

[10:19] there aren't any this is like as Eckhart

[10:23] Tolle revisited you can prove this for

[10:25] yourself though you may be something

[10:27] about something happened one second to

[10:28] go that's not a now thought that's a

[10:31] past thought from one second to go watch

[10:35] yourself and just see if there are any

[10:36] thoughts in now you look at how the

[10:43] brain does this and looks at things like

[10:46] when am I said well when are you one of

[10:50] the great self inquiry questions I find

[10:52] working with people is to ask when am I

[10:55] you know when is Charles when is Mary

[10:58] and just see if in fact the same Mary

[11:01] shows up for every meeting if you watch

[11:04] yourself carefully in the course of a

[11:05] day you'll see the different person

[11:08] shows up with you meet with your partner

[11:11] okay

[11:12] your boss your best friend just see if

[11:15] the same Mary shows up what's the

[11:18] different Mary different categories

[11:20] different capabilities is that Mary

[11:22] changes and changes and changed you

[11:24] begin to look at this and begin to

[11:25] understand it in fact the eye is not one

[11:28] giant thing all glued together it's

[11:30] homogeneous it's really a bunch hundreds

[11:33] maybe a thousands Virginia Woolf said we

[11:36] have as many eyes as we have

[11:38] relationships the watch said and just

[11:41] see if the eye really is real you look

[11:44] at when am I you keep changing but how

[11:48] real are you the brain does basically

[11:51] the same thing same functional areas

[11:53] this is the front out here this is a cut

[11:56] this way though this is facing like this

[11:59] and you can see the same areas are used

[12:02] by the brains for remembering the past

[12:04] and projecting the future these two

[12:06] areas will become very important to this

[12:08] talk goes along the back one is the back

[12:11] part of the default mode Network boring

[12:12] that later

[12:13] and the front one is really the front

[12:14] part of that very important in selfing

[12:17] we use something for remembering and

[12:19] projecting past and future and so it's

[12:22] not surprising those two centers the big

[12:24] active ones this will be on the quiz

[12:32] one question for you to ponder is where

[12:36] your thoughts come from as you sit here

[12:39] now let me take 30 seconds and just

[12:42] watch for yourself eyes closed to rise

[12:44] up but didn't try and see if you can

[12:46] predict your next thoughts and if you

[12:49] can see where they come from do you

[12:51] think them up ahead of time 30 seconds

[12:55] it's beyond a quiz

[13:15] okay so did you find a place where your

[13:17] thoughts came from did you think up your

[13:21] thoughts or they just come on the scene

[13:27] unannounced unpredicted they just

[13:30] manifest so if you don't think up your

[13:33] thoughts why are you so worried about

[13:36] them but just come up all by themselves

[13:40] you're not in charge of them another one

[13:47] another great disbelief we have that's

[13:49] incorrect is we think of what we say if

[13:53] we aren't thinking something in a

[13:54] narrative internally here we'll be

[13:56] unable to speak all experience to the

[14:00] contrary if you watch yourself going

[14:02] through the day talking to people you do

[14:04] not pre think those saying before you

[14:06] say them you just say them they're just

[14:09] they're a great this is Scandinavia 2014

[14:14] research with something called the

[14:16] Stroop yes I'm you may have heard of

[14:18] this troop test what it is is they do

[14:20] what their pup panel was showing there

[14:23] they put the word re D word for red but

[14:27] they trick you and they call her red

[14:29] green so the trick is you have to say

[14:32] green that's what the quiz is okay what

[14:34] is the color that you see not the words

[14:36] you see but the color you see so the

[14:39] person sees this thing bald-headed

[14:40] Scandinavian and he has this headset on

[14:43] he looked at that and so he says in his

[14:46] microphone green that's what I said

[14:49] green but they record degree go to the

[14:53] second panel and they play the second

[14:55] panel to him they show him the word

[14:57] green but his colored in gray I said

[15:01] what do you see what color do you see he

[15:02] says brain but what they do sneaky

[15:06] Canadians is they put in his ear green

[15:10] and then they ask him what did you say

[15:12] he says I said greed fact he actually

[15:17] did say gray but they just tricked him

[15:19] and so we don't know what we're going to

[15:21] say even as we say it if we hear

[15:24] something else will believe we've said

[15:26] we heard you're the other thing

[15:28] you don't think up what you say if you

[15:32] watch yourself in the course the day you

[15:33] can see your brain doing this you can

[15:35] get very quiet and very careful and

[15:37] watching closely you can see in fact you

[15:40] don't know what you're going to say it

[15:42] comes out you very quickly register it

[15:44] listen to it and remember it so if you

[15:49] don't think up what you say why are you

[15:50] so worried what you say coming out of

[15:53] someplace else

[15:54] you aren't premeditating this thing

[15:56] aren't even conscious of what's going to

[15:58] be so what I did was a lot of classical

[16:03] Ramana Maharshi was my main guy a

[16:06] contemporary source I think the great

[16:08] sage of the 20th century

[16:10] Henri cartier-bresson took his last

[16:11] pictures Carl Jung wrote the foreword to

[16:14] it is one of his books

[16:17] BBC Life magazine that drew very simple

[16:21] questions Who am I

[16:23] which is the useful question but it's

[16:25] kind of the classic one but I find where

[16:28] am i win mi who hears I used where am I

[16:32] and who hears for a long time

[16:34] it's amazing how deep these questions

[16:37] can go and how you can work with them

[16:38] they're very simple should be

[16:39] non-threatening

[16:40] there's nothing lethal about them just

[16:43] asking a simple thing like where am I

[16:45] seem to be the most logical thing I was

[16:47] a scientist empirical scientist should

[16:49] know if it's up there all day long

[16:52] talking to me yelling at me shouting at

[16:54] me judging me whipping me where is it

[16:58] can I find it I should be able to feel

[17:01] at some place and I can't find it and we

[17:03] can't find it in any of our plug in

[17:05] neuroscience work either and what

[17:09] happened is this the blahblah stopped I

[17:13] was the yoga posture we're up in the

[17:16] yoga posture bubble of blood not me blah

[17:18] blah blah blah blah and he just stopped

[17:21] at the time I had a thousand people

[17:24] working for me for research labs and a

[17:25] quarter billion dollar budget and it was

[17:28] quiet inside like it is right now

[17:29] it's very quiet

[17:31] no sound just very quiet though

[17:34] wonderful well how do I go to work today

[17:37] and run these thousand people if there's

[17:40] just nothing going on up here it's just

[17:42] very quiet won't they see me won't there

[17:46] be something halo or some such thing

[17:47] runs like a strange creature in fact

[17:51] nobody noticed which makes it something

[17:55] about corporate management but but

[17:57] nobody noticed it's this way basically

[18:00] all the time I just didn't plus put over

[18:02] 90 because that's what makes it's more

[18:05] believable I have low energy low blood

[18:08] sugar I'm hypoglycemic they can start up

[18:10] other than that it's just quiet inside

[18:11] it's very quiet you can still use

[18:14] thoughts if you need to for planning

[18:16] problem solving it's a different circuit

[18:18] I'll show you here in a second but it's

[18:20] just very quiet inside very still it's

[18:24] really a cool thing to do and it gets

[18:25] very sweet as rich can tell you it's a

[18:27] very sweet place this is not

[18:32] unprecedented I found out later a lot of

[18:35] Maharshi this is what he said about no

[18:36] thoughts

[18:37] you gotta maharajah many of you probably

[18:39] know that the same thing and many other

[18:43] people have said the same thing I went

[18:45] to my two zen masters and right was

[18:48] questioned by them endo cusan they said

[18:51] you're done I was speaking in a

[18:55] conference in Stockholm and yes Iowa's

[18:57] Cairo one of the sent a dime a church

[19:00] principals was giving a talk at

[19:02] Stockholm plenary speech at the end of

[19:05] this long talk on ayahuasca he stopped

[19:07] and said it's all about having no

[19:09] thoughts

[19:10] I saw him afterwards and I see no I was

[19:13] really surprised you and I was Carol

[19:15] would come up with this as the goal of a

[19:18] ayahuasca having new thoughts that was

[19:20] what his summation was

[19:26] now comes into the the eye glazing part

[19:29] this is the default mode Network 2010

[19:33] this is the seminal research on this

[19:38] default mode network by Andrews Hannah

[19:40] who was then at Harvard he's not

[19:42] university Colorado and what this does

[19:44] is looks at selfie what what makes up

[19:47] selfie how does the brain create the

[19:49] sense of selfie and it uses basically

[19:51] these 11 centers and the little lines

[19:55] there are how often they talk to each

[19:56] other mouth and they're communicating

[19:58] back and forth two yellow ones

[20:00] once I point out earlier those are the

[20:03] two most important ones posterior single

[20:04] cortex and the prefrontal cortex been

[20:08] here very deep into brain almost down to

[20:10] the bottom of the brain what they found

[20:14] out is that one side and the other side

[20:18] they break up into two sub networks this

[20:21] one sub network and you can see them

[20:23] drawn out out here the one sub network

[20:25] creates a sense of you in time you in

[20:29] the past you in the future if you

[20:32] deactivate this sub network or either

[20:36] one of the two yellow spheres yellow

[20:37] centers and you lose that sense of you

[20:39] being in time there's only now now now

[20:44] classical mystical experience the other

[20:47] one the other side network there is a

[20:51] sense of you and others you in the chair

[20:53] you're in a person next to you you're in

[20:55] your partner if that's deactivated or

[20:58] the yellow centers deactivated you lose

[21:01] that sense of there being anything else

[21:03] this is the all is one experience

[21:05] mystical experience the other one is the

[21:08] now-now-now experience classical

[21:11] mystical experiences whether it's

[21:13] psychedelics I'm sure that a second or

[21:15] whether it's non-dual meditation

[21:16] produced the brain makes this up the

[21:20] brain creates this sense if you

[21:22] deactivate that part of the brain the

[21:24] sense goes away something the brain has

[21:27] learned how to do in about the last

[21:29] seventy five thousand years we broke off

[21:32] from the chimpanzee six million years

[21:33] ago this is a very recent evolution of

[21:36] ours of ours as we got more complicated

[21:39] more agricultural more people complex

[21:42] organizations we developed symbolic

[21:43] logic develop language and developed an

[21:45] AI almost all human languages have an AI

[21:49] doing something to me or an object but

[21:53] the first real research on meditation

[21:55] and default mode network was in 2007

[21:57] University Toronto by folding Farb its

[22:00] top one our novice people who have not

[22:03] meditated and what they see is that they

[22:07] have these two these are used to be

[22:09] called they were real old and now blue

[22:10] but the same posterior cingulate cortex

[22:12] medial prefrontal cortex those two

[22:15] centers are active blah blah blah blah

[22:17] blah blah blah blah blah

[22:19] taking place okay bottom-1 this is now

[22:23] with two months forty-five minutes a day

[22:25] very simple mindfulness meditation

[22:27] everyone's doing it now what this does

[22:30] activates a different network down this

[22:33] side of the brain that open frontal

[22:36] cortex

[22:36] posterior parietal right insula right

[22:40] down the side of the brain so you go

[22:41] from this network which is blah blah

[22:43] blah blah blah blah blah this network

[22:45] which is doing doing meditation which is

[22:48] tasking and meditation no blah blah blah

[22:55] fast-forward to study I was very much

[22:57] involved in was at Yale but fellow named

[22:59] Judd brewer published in PNAS in 2011

[23:02] this was 10,000 hour care of ogden

[23:05] meditators 12 13 14 nothing like that

[23:08] and the three different color bars are

[23:11] three different classical terrible

[23:13] meditations very they all terabytes knew

[23:16] these you can see it the meditators as

[23:18] compared to the controls actually shut

[23:20] down again our two friends this one over

[23:23] here is this Brooklyn this one back here

[23:26] is a coronal slice it's a slice this way

[23:28] as opposed to this way you can see

[23:30] against back in here

[23:31] it's that posterior cingulate cortex so

[23:33] we deactivate the same two centers the

[23:36] one unique thing we found in the Yale

[23:38] work was that these 10,000 hour

[23:40] actually had some persistency it wasn't

[23:44] just like when they stopped meditating

[23:45] it was gone

[23:47] it's that went on it acted like it was

[23:49] still stayed shut down even when they

[23:51] aren't meditating time between runs they

[23:55] were still shut down first time we'd

[23:56] seen that

[23:57] and it was I didn't put up on this one

[23:59] but there were two centers we found that

[24:01] were actually watching this shutdown

[24:03] process apparently they do part of the

[24:06] monitoring and control circuitry to see

[24:08] it in fact what was shutdown that was

[24:10] still in stage shutdown fast forward to

[24:16] 2014 Andrews hand up about the new paper

[24:18] much more sophisticated a thousand

[24:21] people studied at MIT looking at all

[24:23] kinds of things much more sophisticated

[24:26] what they had before much more

[24:28] comprehensive and what's talking to what

[24:30] you can see the left one the blue one is

[24:33] the same default network we had and the

[24:36] one on the right as we called this

[24:38] tasking network the one that was done

[24:39] the right hand side of the brain and

[24:41] they get much more complex they talk to

[24:43] each other in the sent the green guy in

[24:44] the center is the one that controls

[24:46] which one of these is running blah blah

[24:49] default mode network or tasking Network

[24:51] no blah blah going back and forth we

[24:54] know which centers they are that

[24:55] switched between the right side and the

[24:57] left side why this matters is here's an

[25:01] example of paper in 2013 this looked at

[25:05] who's in charge

[25:06] new kind of statistics called Grainger

[25:08] statistics that can look at if I

[25:09] memorize and decide who's who's pushing

[25:12] the interview information which way

[25:13] who's in charge of the discussion if the

[25:16] arrows going this way if the top one

[25:18] their default mode network is in charge

[25:20] default and the past part of network is

[25:23] overwhelmed and you have very poor

[25:25] performance on tasks and very slow

[25:27] response times no surprise blah blah

[25:30] blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

[25:31] you can't do a very good job on tasks

[25:34] enjoy wise as Ellis would say if the

[25:38] task positive Network is in charge

[25:41] the other thing happens blah blah blahs

[25:43] quiet and you can do your tasks

[25:46] unimpeded and performance goes up

[25:49] accuracy goes up response time goes up

[25:52] what happens though with ADHD is that it

[25:57] doesn't shut up default mode Network

[25:59] keeps talking bla bla bla bla bla bla

[26:01] bla

[26:01] when you're trying to do your task and

[26:03] you can't get your task completed

[26:04] because you can't shut up the default

[26:06] mode Network

[26:13] then you say well okay where do we do

[26:15] our work then if our blahblah is stopped

[26:19] how do we solve problems it sounds like

[26:22] it's a big problem turns out to again to

[26:25] our warning that we've evolved a very

[26:26] strange very tiny processor they'd only

[26:30] can do seven plus or minus two things at

[26:32] a time stored you know I solve one

[26:34] problem at a time

[26:35] there's a reason evolutionarily you'd

[26:37] want that but it looks kind of weird now

[26:39] because underneath that you've got that

[26:40] wonder of the universe one hundred

[26:43] billion two hundred billion neurons 50

[26:45] 75 trillion optic interconnections huge

[26:47] parallel processor great data storage

[26:49] you got here together above that sits

[26:51] this little tiny processor tiny little

[26:55] GUI that could just very down to this

[26:58] giant processor underneath we use the

[27:01] metaphor of a writer an elephant except

[27:05] in actuality the writer would be very

[27:07] tiny the elephant would be hundred times

[27:10] this big but you have this enormous

[27:13] process or off line where all the

[27:15] important stuff gets done nothing very

[27:17] important gets done up here in

[27:19] consciousness other than the press

[27:21] secretary for the body which says this I

[27:24] solved this problem where the problems

[27:27] get solved this is another good paper

[27:29] 2009 it looked at solving problems that

[27:33] are like one two three JKL seven eight

[27:35] nine well you need some kind of

[27:37] discontinuous understanding some clarity

[27:40] of a jump in perception to solve that

[27:43] problem so it can't be just simple

[27:45] simple in your logic what happens is you

[27:48] get a shift from this back quadrant back

[27:50] here we can watch the EEG memorized on

[27:53] this as well when the problem gets

[27:55] solved some time later you can watch the

[27:57] signal shift over here tour freak at

[27:59] higher frequency and you sit right here

[28:02] a lot our prefrontal cortex EEG shows

[28:05] gammas six to eight seconds later we can

[28:08] the problem we can find out the problem

[28:10] is going to be told it was solved we

[28:12] know we know as it's been solved before

[28:14] it's become conscious to you six to

[28:16] eight seconds before you know it's

[28:17] caught you're conscious

[28:18] I don't percents prediction on this

[28:20] thing

[28:20] you think then you announce I've solved

[28:24] this problem what a genius I am I have

[28:27] my own abilities have fixed it solve

[28:28] this problem in fact all you've done is

[28:30] blah blah about it possibly what was

[28:32] going on the solution it's been done

[28:34] offline and the present' up and said

[28:37] look Louie and I solved this problem and

[28:39] here's the answer and you then announce

[28:41] you'll do your boss you've solved this

[28:43] problem quickly here my esteemed

[28:49] colleagues area speciality psychedelics

[28:53] this is liquid shrooms at work

[28:56] this is psilocybin IV injected one of

[29:00] the best studies in the play the best

[29:02] player in the world right now is

[29:03] psilocybin done in UK of course not in

[29:05] the US and Denmark and what happens here

[29:09] is they inject you can see the infusion

[29:12] curve over there IV now coming in you

[29:17] can see what happens you infuse this

[29:19] what they do is then they watch and see

[29:21] okay how shut down is this again

[29:24] posterior seing the cortex the same guy

[29:27] that's guy or gal that runs this default

[29:29] mode network is that shut down or not

[29:32] turns that gets shut down just like it

[29:34] does with meditation

[29:35] so let's I've been shut down the same

[29:37] network same way default mode is shut

[29:41] down with meditation and you get not

[29:44] surprisingly over here extremely intense

[29:47] effects some of your friends who have

[29:49] taken mushrooms could probably describe

[29:50] this to you I've heard none of you have

[29:52] done they've done these before but your

[29:54] friends can probably tell you what the

[29:56] experiences are these extremely intense

[29:59] effects do happen with magic mushrooms

[30:02] ayahuasca the latest they were the first

[30:05] real research paper on ayahuasca that's

[30:07] done by a pure wine journal just came

[30:09] out literally weeks ago it's in plus one

[30:13] and what they found same thing as we saw

[30:16] with budging mushrooms

[30:18] those of you who have done your friends

[30:21] who have done ayahuasca of the magic

[30:22] mushrooms could probably tell you out

[30:24] there are different experiences but the

[30:27] core of those are the same two core

[30:28] mystical experiences we talked about the

[30:30] default mode Network where you shut down

[30:32] itself in other and sulfon time these

[30:40] can fit on the same scale interestingly

[30:41] enough whether it's meditation

[30:43] psilocybin

[30:44] ayahuasca whatever it is put mysticism

[30:47] scale it really stacks these things up

[30:50] and they run a study on this a doctoral

[30:52] thesis study they looked at how mystical

[30:56] people are from 32 to 160 range 160

[30:59] being the top people like myself who had

[31:02] this quietness all the time

[31:05] we're in psychedelic at the 160 level

[31:08] basically all the time believe it or not

[31:12] nine of us were at that level of 36 or

[31:16] baseball all the time our average is 152

[31:19] people on psychedelics 150 meditators

[31:23] 143 so this is a very psychedelic state

[31:27] once you deactivate that default mode

[31:29] Network it gets very psychedelic whether

[31:32] you do it with psychedelics or with

[31:33] meditation and this is what's what is

[31:38] more pleasurable sex drugs and

[31:40] rock'n'roll sex in this case sex drugs

[31:42] are non-duality which did people prefer

[31:46] and the people I've asked about this who

[31:49] have done all three of these I'm a civil

[31:52] version of psychedelics this is all

[31:53] secondhand looks like a lawyer again

[31:56] rock and roll really it's better than

[31:58] sex as good it would ever be a Buddhist

[32:01] buddha was supposed to have remarked if

[32:03] it wasn't this way they bring nobody

[32:05] medicated because it does the people who

[32:09] have had this experience and had lived

[32:10] in this experience it's better than sex

[32:12] hard to believe but it is

[32:16] and finally we have some real-time

[32:21] neurofeedback available to us where you

[32:22] can lie an fMRI this one was at Yale and

[32:26] they can watch the PCC operate

[32:28] continuously with about a two or three

[32:30] second time lag you can just watch it go

[32:33] in and out of activation selfing not

[32:36] selfing Suffolk not salty if it's

[32:39] something goes red which indicates you

[32:47] have increased activation of the PCC

[32:49] software you'll activation if it's blue

[32:52] it's decreased activation of yourself in

[32:54] network though less blah blah blah in

[32:59] the ten thousand our people this is what

[33:02] their curves look like when they're

[33:05] meditating deactivated you're a deeply

[33:08] deactivated when I'm doing nothing this

[33:12] is my curve but you can deactivate this

[33:15] thing in a way that it can be

[33:17] deactivated all the time whether you're

[33:19] doing anything or not

[33:20] so I think we're not meditating or not

[33:23] this is what's going on right now

[33:26] there's a lot of this yeah that's about

[33:29] four minutes yeah left to right yeah

[33:35] this is the guy who was it Yale he's not

[33:37] UMass Amherst you master

[33:39] putting along one of these head nets

[33:41] there's a lot of work a lot of work

[33:43] going on now but everybody from DARPA

[33:46] and DOD to investors in the valley going

[33:52] after some way to do this thing

[33:54] inexpensively you can do an EEG I mean

[33:57] an fMRI takes a you know a million

[33:59] dollars of Tesla every good fMRI is

[34:01] three tests that's four million dollars

[34:03] it's not going to be in your basement

[34:04] well EEG though you can get these things

[34:07] cheap there are a jig EEG rigs out now

[34:10] that are a hundred thousand two hundred

[34:12] thousand dollars they're going to get

[34:13] even cheaper and better they're not far

[34:16] away and God worked without in Palo Alto

[34:18] there's a lot of money in the valley

[34:20] right now chasing this is the next thing

[34:22] three years ago mindfulness was not the

[34:24] now everybody's been mindfulness and

[34:27] looking for what is the next thing and

[34:30] they think this could be the next day

[34:50] you

GW
Artist
Gary Weber

Watch more from Gary Weber on YouTube.

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Default-mode-networkThe-i-thoughtNondualityAwakeningMemory-formation

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In Gary Weber's talk, the default mode network is presented as the brain-level home of the self-referencing stream of thought, the constant "I, me, my" narration that carries worries, storylines, and attachments. Weber argues that this stream is a major source of suffering, and that its pattern can be observed and loosened rather than accepted as a fixed identity.
Weber says the study, which he cites as published in Science, had 150 undergraduates sit alone in a room with no devices, and most found it painful within about 12 to 15 minutes. When given the option to deliver a painful shock to themselves, most of the men and about a quarter of the women chose to do so rather than remain alone with their thoughts.
He says there is no "I" at around one year old, and that it manifests somewhere between one and two and a half, shaped by genetics, conditioning, family, friends, and environment. He describes it as a central post that collects a small fraction of experiences, like Post-it notes, which over time become a set of stories about who you are.
Weber argues that memories are not stored in a single file folder but scattered across the cortex and bound together when recalled, a flexible system he links to survival needs. He cites a study in which people's recollections of how they felt on 9/11, a year later, tracked their present mood rather than their actual feelings that day.
He suggests watching your thoughts for about five minutes and sorting them into two imaginary buckets: one for thoughts that involve the "I" (me, my concerns, worries, storylines) and one for thoughts that do not. He reports that his own I bucket was full, and encourages listeners to test it themselves.
Yes, Weber deliberately built his approach on secular, contemporary sources rather than scripture or philosophy. He emphasizes empirical testing: doing the experiments yourself and checking whether they work in daily life.
His book Happiness Beyond Thought: A Practical Guide to Awakening is available free online and in paperback, and his website happiness-beyond-thought.com lists downloads, a blog, and interviews. Dancing Beyond Thought and Into the Stillness, written with Rich Doyle, are other entry points into his ideas.

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