Transcript
[0:00] It's one camera on the closeup
[0:04] and
[0:18] you're a Part time lover and
[0:20] [music and singing] fulltime friend. The
[0:22] monkey on your back is the latest trend.
[0:25] I don't see what anyone can see in
[0:28] anyone else.
[0:32] >> I'll kiss [music] you on the brain in
[0:33] the shadow of the train. Kiss you all
[0:36] stared. My body swinging [music] from
[0:38] side to side. I don't see what anyone
[0:40] can see in anyone else.
[0:45] Here is the [music] church and here is
[0:47] the steeple
[0:49] cute [music] ugly
[0:58] but
[1:01] >> hello and welcome to Sunday service with
[1:03] the brands
[1:07] [music]
[1:13] I've got me right up today, haven't I?
[1:16] Oh,
[1:18] >> Romans 12.
[1:21] Therefore, I urge you, brothers and
[1:23] sisters, in view of God's mercy, to
[1:25] offer your bodies as a living sacrifice,
[1:29] holy and pleasing to God.
[1:32] This is your true and proper worship to
[1:36] not conform to the pattern of this
[1:38] world, but be transformed by the
[1:41] renewing of your mind. Then you will be
[1:45] able to test and approve what God's will
[1:47] is. His good and pleasing, perfect will.
[1:50] Oh Lord God, [gasps]
[1:53] today as you begin this Sunday service,
[1:56] man and wife,
[1:59] Laura and Russell, two people moving
[2:04] through time and space at very least.
[2:08] Lord, I ask that we may know the truth
[2:12] of this verse. A living
[2:16] sacrifice.
[2:18] Offer your bodies as a living sacrifice.
[2:21] This is the proper worship. Show us the
[2:24] canosis in this. The emptying out of
[2:26] self, Lord, that we may be present as
[2:29] vessels for your [sighs]
[2:32] perfect will.
[2:34] Our Lord, show us in this the wisdom of
[2:38] the Stoic Marcus Aurelius. For surely if
[2:40] your St. Paul could site
[2:45] nonscriptural
[2:47] sources in his own scriptural tendency,
[2:51] why would we hold ourselves to a
[2:53] standard that the Bible itself does not
[2:54] hold itself to?
[2:57] Marcus Aurelia says, "You are already
[2:59] dead. Now live the rest of your life
[3:02] properly." The Buddhists say, "Put down
[3:06] the corpse. Don't pick up the corpse.
[3:09] Don't pick up the corpse. You're already
[3:11] dead." And St. Paul says,
[3:14] "I die on the cross with Christ Jesus,
[3:17] and it's Christ that's reborn in me."
[3:19] And Schrodinger says, "The cat is both
[3:22] alive and dead. It's in a super state of
[3:25] potentiality, collapsing only obs under
[3:28] observation into a definitive and
[3:30] determinate state." And Heisenberg says
[3:34] that at the first sip of the glass of
[3:37] quantum physics, one becomes an atheist.
[3:40] But there at the bottom of the glass,
[3:42] one finds God. Oh Lord. Oh Lord, we ask
[3:47] not to conform to the pattern of this
[3:49] world, but to be transformed by the
[3:51] renewing of this mind. That we die
[3:54] moment by moment to ourselves and are
[3:56] reborn again. that the Russell that
[3:58] began this prayer is already dead and a
[4:01] new man is born that may serve you
[4:04] because you Lord Jesus Christ are
[4:06] spontaneous and everpresent transcendent
[4:09] of all self not the God of culture.
[4:12] Culture that is not alive cannot be of
[4:15] you. Living God, you are the living God.
[4:19] Upon this rock I will build my church.
[4:21] You are the living God. Amen. Amen.
[4:24] >> Amen.
[4:26] How are you, darling? You're all right.
[4:27] You feel okay?
[4:29] >> Yes, I'm a little tired. Um, and I
[4:32] suppose, uh, [gasps]
[4:34] >> I think there's been a little heaviness
[4:36] recently, hasn't there, Russell? For us,
[4:38] just in the dark, like there's been a
[4:40] little bit of battle in the dark.
[4:42] [laughter]
[4:44] >> There's heaviness and darkness, of
[4:46] course. Yes,
[4:46] >> there could be. Of course, there could
[4:48] be, you know, but but actually, I think
[4:50] we mentioned it last week, but there's
[4:52] also been that
[4:52] >> have a sip of a delicious drink.
[4:54] >> Yeah. have a have a sip of a delicious
[4:55] drink.
[4:56] >> Um yeah, the [clears throat] heaviness
[4:58] sometimes is is difficult to actually
[5:01] lean in. I think it's quite difficult to
[5:03] lean into prayer. Um but it's obviously
[5:06] it's ne necessary because I realized the
[5:08] other day that when I do find things too
[5:11] overwhelming, I do shut down.
[5:13] >> And so I find it difficult uh to connect
[5:17] with the hope and faithfulness of a
[5:19] situation. And um and then like weirdly
[5:23] quite a lot of felt kind of some
[5:25] insecurities maybe just a little bit.
[5:28] Thankfully I'm with you and you actually
[5:30] fill me with like a lot of praise and I
[5:35] I know in I know that the way that I am
[5:39] in your eyes I do it feels I feel good.
[5:43] I feel good. And just before we, you
[5:46] know, come with what you said, you know,
[5:48] I I, you know, I don't often think about
[5:51] um you're always extremely complimentary
[5:53] from right from the level of like if I'm
[5:55] wearing something or the way I look and
[5:57] you tell me I'm beautiful and I feel
[6:00] like I I feel mostly like I don't think
[6:02] much about the way I look.
[6:04] >> But recently uh I suppose some things
[6:07] have come up for me. So I think when I
[6:09] say I'm experiencing insecurity
[6:12] that's what has been presenting
[6:14] >> I suppose so that this is not cryptic
[6:18] >> there is um the
[6:21] like comments like we had like we notice
[6:23] if the show gets like normally in the
[6:25] world of social media if your show gets
[6:27] watched a lot
[6:28] >> it means that it's probably been watched
[6:30] by people that don't like you like
[6:33] that's the dynamic sort of online um
[6:37] >> people that know how to operate in these
[6:39] spaces
[6:41] which are still somewhat protein
[6:44] in coet and forming
[6:46] >> know that there's a benefit in conflict.
[6:48] Isn't that extraordinary?
[6:49] >> Yeah.
[6:50] >> Like um whatever you think of Andrew
[6:52] Tate and I I have access to information
[6:55] that not everyone would have access to.
[6:58] He's a person that understands
[7:01] uh how media operates
[7:04] and he's famously said that you only
[7:07] need something like you know 40% of
[7:09] people to like you. I can't remember but
[7:10] it's almost like benefits to be involved
[7:13] in conflict.
[7:14] >> Yes.
[7:16] >> Now you yourself if you even when you
[7:18] hear me say the name Andrew Tate if that
[7:20] makes you have a particular reaction
[7:23] >> Yeah.
[7:23] >> you begin to participate in that
[7:26] dynamic. or if I say Islam or uh Israel
[7:30] or if I say whatever it is, it doesn't
[7:32] matter actually. If you start to if you
[7:34] start to form you if you're not being
[7:37] transformed by the renewing of your mind
[7:39] by like I've got this thing that I think
[7:41] about that then then you you um you are
[7:44] sort of an unwitting participant in
[7:47] precisely the dynamic that I described.
[7:49] So anyway, we noticed that um
[7:51] >> that there were like more uh views
[7:56] Like but we don't like blessedly Massie
[8:00] who produces this show gives us comments
[8:02] and like you know I've been in the game
[8:04] a while man I'm a battle warn weary old
[8:07] [ __ ] of a game so I don't care no more
[8:10] but you you are my lovely wife so like
[8:13] you know we don't experience negative
[8:14] comments I don't experience them and
[8:16] once you've been called you know falsely
[8:19] a rapist in public [laughter]
[8:22] okay where do you where do you go from
[8:24] here like so
[8:25] >> yeah old Russ has been toughened up. But
[8:27] what I want to say is that um you know
[8:31] like comments and stuff in the
[8:33] >> it was what it was was this is we we
[8:36] discussed this and actually this isn't
[8:37] meant to be you know a hark I'm feeling
[8:41] like I'm looking old or whatever
[8:44] actually it's it's to do with what it
[8:46] brings up and and one thing that just
[8:48] came up is this when you say or even if
[8:51] you say a name you can't help but have
[8:53] an and what it what it is is we're
[8:55] talking also obviously about opinion,
[8:58] right? So, we're not say one isn't
[9:00] saying you should all share an opinion.
[9:02] You should have different opinions.
[9:03] That's what makes for, you know, that's
[9:04] what makes for learning and developing
[9:06] and renewing because if you have
[9:07] different opinions, you can discuss and
[9:09] but it's the intention of it, right? So,
[9:12] one could think um like cuz what I'm
[9:15] saying is that we're not it's not like
[9:17] what you were saying about you mentioned
[9:18] Andrew Tate is of course yeah people are
[9:20] going to have opinions and then I
[9:22] suppose what it is is it's going to be
[9:23] op opinions like you say based on where
[9:25] they're getting their information and
[9:27] what they believe. So when it comes to
[9:29] something like comments which I also
[9:32] don't you know like to really indulge
[9:34] that negativity I see it almost like
[9:37] that it can this is what you have to do
[9:40] you have to almost pray and cover
[9:42] yourself in a protective guard an armor
[9:46] from even the idea that there's a
[9:48] comment about you that you can't that
[9:50] you don't feel under the spell of it
[9:51] like you've been like it's been cast
[9:53] upon you
[9:54] >> and so when I
[9:56] >> when I saw that this comment which
[9:59] actually I will read it and it's from
[10:01] and it's a lovely comment by the way
[10:02] it's @happycappy1
[10:05] the podcast must be growing as the
[10:07] darkness in the comments is started see
[10:10] it as a blessing though you're reaching
[10:12] people with your honest journey it's not
[10:15] uh saccharine saccharine saccharine
[10:18] >> false sweetness
[10:19] >> it feels authentic Catholic Protestant
[10:22] whatever siblings in Christ we all are
[10:24] love to you both and keep going I mean
[10:26] what a Beautiful, beautiful comment. Um,
[10:29] and actually it just gave us the and
[10:32] then the other the other one was from um
[10:35] at nanny mets. Hi, hi dear brands. Huge
[10:39] thank you for sharing your Sunday
[10:40] services with us. We pray for those who
[10:43] post unkind comments. Mr. Rogers would
[10:46] pray for them. Mentioned on the last
[10:48] show.
[10:49] >> Um, no doubt both of you remain
[10:51] faithfilled. We are in your corner
[10:53] always praying for you five and all your
[10:55] extended loved ones. Keep the faith. two
[10:56] really really beautiful examples
[10:58] >> but I suppose they in themselves
[10:59] indicate that there were negative points
[11:00] so you start to speculate what would
[11:02] they be and what does that and what does
[11:04] that do to you
[11:04] >> what does it it makes me immediately you
[11:06] know it can make me feel well sadness
[11:10] obviously sadness like I don't have a
[11:12] chance to u I don't know like I almost
[11:16] like I want to read them so in my mind I
[11:18] can start a battle of justification but
[11:21] I don't read them because I know that
[11:23] it's not coming from a good place it's
[11:25] not an opinion
[11:26] It's not an opinion with any weight.
[11:28] It's not like let's have a discussion
[11:30] about whether or not you should pray in
[11:32] that way. It's it's a it's not a
[11:34] discussion. It's not up for discussion
[11:36] because the person is one-sided. The
[11:38] person is in their own insula and
[11:41] solitary world because you wouldn't
[11:43] post. Nobody would go up to a stranger
[11:46] in the street and just say a mean thing.
[11:50] It's just but because we're behind
[11:52] because you're behind comments because
[11:54] it's because it's like we're a a couple
[11:56] that are online you it puts you up for
[11:59] this sort of vulnerability to this
[12:01] vulnerability. Um, my point being is
[12:04] that I really am trying to imagine
[12:09] like really trying to just like fill my
[12:12] heart with a kind of a love towards even
[12:16] the idea of a negative comment so that I
[12:19] can
[12:19] >> how are you going to do that? by praying
[12:21] by praying to bless them but also I
[12:24] suppose knowing that if I am not
[12:27] accepted as myself who I am
[12:30] authentically when I'm here or when I'm
[12:32] with you um well does it matter does it
[12:36] matter to that individual person or does
[12:37] it matter that 10 people might see that
[12:39] and then think oh maybe she's or maybe
[12:41] that person's right or is it you know
[12:42] it's also quite self-centered so it
[12:44] brings that up as well
[12:45] >> good now um it it depends what you're
[12:48] interested in if you are actually
[12:50] interested interested in power then it
[12:52] becomes relevant right
[12:53] >> because if you're interested in power
[12:54] the coagulation and accumulation of a
[12:57] particular perspective becomes a force
[12:59] and an energy for example if everyone's
[13:01] willing to vote a certain way or concede
[13:03] to a certain impression
[13:04] >> then it matters what opinions are
[13:07] >> if you believe that power is not
[13:11] ultimately determined by activity on
[13:13] this in this realm then it becomes less
[13:16] relevant but you'll still be affected by
[13:18] it in the same way that if there's a
[13:19] particular
[13:20] charge in the air or if a particular
[13:22] stimulant is applied to your body, you
[13:25] will feel it. You will feel it. If
[13:27] someone steps on your toe, you will feel
[13:30] it. You'll respond to different flavors
[13:32] on your taste bud.
[13:33] >> However, though, that's, you know, if
[13:35] you're interested in power, and I
[13:36] mentioned that only because uh social
[13:38] media spaces are interested in power and
[13:41] operate on the basis of power. Indeed, I
[13:43] talked about this on the other show the
[13:44] other day and I used the example of
[13:45] that. What's the lady that's um appears
[13:48] perhaps as well what she did she
[13:52] >> Oh, Lindsay Clancy Clancy.
[13:53] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[13:54] >> So Lindsay Clancy like she that think
[13:57] now the culture is this way. An object
[13:59] gets thrown into the culture. You might
[14:01] call the October the 7th. You might call
[14:03] it Russell Brand. You might call it
[14:05] Lindsay Clancy. You might whatever the
[14:07] object, it doesn't matter. It's it's
[14:09] truly irrelevant. The object gets thrown
[14:11] into the pool. the collective pool of
[14:13] the culture. Now you might take a strong
[14:16] view Trump's a really good one to use
[14:18] because he's the biggest one I suppose.
[14:20] Um
[14:21] >> whether if you are like I adore Donald
[14:24] Trump because of XY Z or I loathe Trump
[14:27] because of ABC both of those polarities
[14:30] are equally good for the systems. And
[14:33] same for Lindsay Clancy or for Andrew
[14:36] Tate or for whomever, me, whoever.
[14:38] Because as long as you're trapped in a
[14:40] kind of a polarity uh you are conformed
[14:43] to the pattern of this world, you are
[14:45] not transformed by the renewing of your
[14:48] mind
[14:49] >> because the system wants conformity. The
[14:53] system does not want spontaneity. Our
[14:55] Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, he is the
[14:57] living water. He is spontaneous. He is
[14:59] responding continually. He's he is
[15:01] outside of time. He's the alpha, the
[15:03] omega. He is outside of all categories
[15:06] and conditions. That word category, what
[15:08] did I learn it comes from?
[15:11] >> Aristotle took it from uh a legal way of
[15:16] understanding things into a poetic way
[15:19] of understanding things. category uh and
[15:22] gosh I can't I'm I'm sort of slightly
[15:24] blanking on the important details now
[15:26] but my uh but you know on the etmology
[15:29] of the word category but like the more
[15:32] important point that I want to make here
[15:35] is beautifully under written by this
[15:39] lesson 351 course in miracles some of
[15:42] you will be familiar with it
[15:45] my sinless brother is my guide to peace
[15:49] >> my sinful brother is my guide to pain
[15:52] >> and which I choose to see I will behold.
[15:55] Now I want you to uh hold in your mind
[15:58] the comments right now like let's
[16:00] continue that thread of like you know
[16:01] someone writes a comment about another
[16:03] person or hate person X for reason why
[16:08] >> consider now in in I think the lexicon
[16:11] and vocabulary of course in miracles
[16:13] brother is akin to how the gospels and
[16:16] indeed all scripture uses the term
[16:18] neighbor i.e.
[16:20] the person that you're interacting with.
[16:21] The person that you're interacting with
[16:22] is not a gendered word.
[16:24] >> It's a human.
[16:25] >> Christ a human. Yeah.
[16:27] >> Is that right?
[16:28] >> Yeah. And maybe if you were to take it
[16:29] out into more um sort of Native American
[16:32] ideologies, they they use brother,
[16:35] water, sister, air, and all that. They
[16:38] beyond
[16:39] >> they start to even take Yeah. Like
[16:40] >> the thing the thing in that moment of
[16:42] the most importance,
[16:43] >> their proximity and your relationship
[16:45] when Mr. Rogers says, "Do you know
[16:46] what's the most important thing to me
[16:48] now, Lloyd Vogel? You are because I'm
[16:50] talking to you now.
[16:51] >> Yes. Yes. That's right. That's exactly
[16:53] >> that's what you're my reality now.
[16:55] You're my reality now.
[16:56] >> Mhm.
[16:57] >> Uh we are part. You are my
[16:58] consciousness, my attention, my the gift
[17:00] of my consciousness. I focus on you. My
[17:03] So when it says, "My sinless brother is
[17:05] my guide to peace. My sinful brother is
[17:07] my guide to pain." It could be the same
[17:09] person much in the same way as two men
[17:11] will be working in a field. One man will
[17:13] be taken. You know, sort of
[17:15] rapture-wise. Part of you you must let
[17:17] go of. you must die.
[17:19] >> I I actually intended to talk about this
[17:21] in the first instance like in that uh
[17:24] film uh the prestige where Christopher
[17:27] Nolan at our work through a theatrical
[17:32] um imagining of Nikolai Tesla played by
[17:35] David Bowie God rest his soul how
[17:38] Schroinger's famous uh experiment might
[17:41] play out if such a thing were actually
[17:44] possible in reality. Hugh Jackman's
[17:46] protagonist gets Tesla to build a device
[17:49] where you can infinitely reproduce
[17:52] yourself. And it's a thought experiment
[17:53] that came out of like that those those
[17:55] various um from 1912 onwards experiments
[17:58] in and at least theoretical
[18:00] experimentations in the ideas around
[18:03] ideas in quantum physics that
[18:05] >> every time you make a decision another
[18:08] you might be born in an infinite number
[18:10] of universes. And I I myself see that as
[18:12] a kind of a rather ridiculous way of
[18:14] trying to keep things somehow material
[18:17] when material itself demonstrates
[18:19] something superraaterial. I.e. material
[18:23] the deeper you get into it doesn't
[18:25] conform to our understanding of what the
[18:27] physical world would be
[18:28] >> thing. Uh what was that film? I found it
[18:30] too jarring and couldn't keep up with it
[18:32] and we stopped watching it. That film
[18:33] where there's
[18:34] >> everywhere all the time. It's not as
[18:35] good as Matrix. That's what I can say.
[18:37] And it's but again, it's also it's
[18:39] trying to narrativize something in a
[18:41] childish way. In a childish way
[18:44] >> because what it really is
[18:46] >> is something that's simpler than that.
[18:49] >> Yeah.
[18:49] >> As Echart Tol says,
[18:51] >> and this is brilliant and it's very in
[18:53] touch in line with the Paul line idea
[18:56] that we began with. Be transformed by
[18:58] the renewing of your mind. Yeah. Echart
[19:00] tool says even if you're in a wheelchair
[19:02] for the rest of your life, you are not
[19:05] in a wheelchair for the rest of your
[19:07] life in this moment.
[19:09] >> No, that's very good.
[19:11] >> In this moment, you are sitting down.
[19:13] Even if you're in prison for the rest of
[19:15] your life,
[19:16] >> you are not in prison for the rest of
[19:18] your life.
[19:18] >> In this moment, in this moment, you are
[19:20] in a room. I can see a window and I
[19:22] remember watching. I mean, man, that's a
[19:24] what a com what a demand to make of your
[19:28] spirit. But really, it's only an
[19:29] absolute surrender. It's only by
[19:31] conforming to the pattern of this world
[19:33] that you start going, "Oh no, this
[19:34] happened to me as a child and then this
[19:36] happened and then that happened." And
[19:37] you sort of want to cling and you want
[19:39] to make a false idol. You want to make a
[19:42] god of this passing world of this
[19:44] passing world.
[19:46] >> So my sinless brother, if you think of
[19:48] any person, you at home and you too,
[19:51] Laura, you know, think of any
[19:52] individual. It could even be the person
[19:54] that leads a comment saying uh this is
[19:57] like I will imagine one. You've got no
[19:59] business saying a prayer. You've never
[20:00] even been Christian. I don't think you
[20:01] are properly Christian. And perhaps you
[20:03] should concentrate more on the matters
[20:04] go legal matters that your family are
[20:06] facing and and you look disgusting and I
[20:08] hate you. Right. [laughter] Right.
[20:10] >> So if we see that person as let's say
[20:13] call that person uh
[20:16] >> meanie.
[20:17] >> Yeah. Meanie mean.
[20:18] >> We can't give him an actual name because
[20:19] then we could be offended. Yeah. And we
[20:21] can't put that bestow that on the name.
[20:24] >> Oh no, we'd never do that.
[20:25] >> Meanie.
[20:26] >> So if Meanie is my sin, my sinless
[20:29] brother is my guide to peace. So if we
[20:31] were to see Meanie as sinless somehow,
[20:34] >> okay,
[20:34] >> that would guide us to peace. If we see
[20:37] Meanie as my sinful brother, that's our
[20:39] guide to pain. It would take us into
[20:41] pain. So somehow we have to look at this
[20:43] same uh metaphorical
[20:47] analogous or allegorical person as
[20:50] sinless because if we sin the sinful
[20:52] it's going to guide us into pain. A
[20:54] checklist this is the key point
[20:57] >> and which I choose to see I will behold.
[21:00] >> That's key
[21:01] >> which I choose to see I will behold. Now
[21:03] what's the difference between choose to
[21:05] see and behold? Once you behold
[21:07] something it's in the realm of your
[21:09] beingness. is in the realm of your
[21:11] beingness.
[21:12] >> Yeah. So
[21:14] >> because when you first read that I
[21:16] because you read it the other day and I
[21:18] truly
[21:19] >> at first I really sort of even when you
[21:20] read the whole thing I understood it to
[21:22] be
[21:23] >> yeah of course you've got you've got
[21:26] Meanie and you got Nicey two different
[21:29] people and you can go with Nice.
[21:33] Those these names are terrible, aren't
[21:35] they? Really putting a wire at the end
[21:37] or an I. Yeah. [laughter]
[21:39] >> Um but nicy um person B. Um it's not
[21:45] you're it's the same person and it's
[21:47] actually in our eyes. It's how we see
[21:51] them. It's not actually two different
[21:53] people and we're going off with that
[21:54] person.
[21:55] >> Indeed. Even if you wanted to fetishize
[21:57] the distinction and say, "Well, no,
[21:58] that's not actually true because Meanie
[22:00] is called um you know, Alex Blowfelt and
[22:03] lives in Murray Down Lane and Nicey is
[22:07] called uh Michelle uh Crowthornne and
[22:11] she lives in Surrey." Yeah. Right. If
[22:14] you wanted to see Mr. People, well,
[22:16] riddle me this. How do we deal with the
[22:19] um h uh physical cosmological reality
[22:23] that materialists and atheists believe
[22:24] that 13.8 8 billion years ago, all
[22:27] reality was compressed into a
[22:29] submolelecular particle along with
[22:31] unicorn. Not unicorns, they're not real
[22:33] actually, rainbows at some point,
[22:35] dinosaurs and kittens and love and
[22:38] thermonuclear dynamics, Saturn, Jupiter,
[22:41] the rules of quantum physics. All of
[22:44] those things, they're also not real,
[22:46] were packed into a submolecular particle
[22:49] and then all unfolded. So at some point
[22:52] even physically
[22:55] >> me and Nia are one thing. So my sinless
[22:58] brother is my guide to peace. My sinful
[23:00] brother is my guide to pain and I and
[23:02] which I choose to see I will behold. So
[23:05] we elect, we are part of uh if we choose
[23:10] to see it, if we choose to be to conform
[23:13] to the pattern of this world, you know,
[23:15] well, I actually think that's wrong. I
[23:16] think there are some things that are,
[23:18] you know, like you there is no objective
[23:21] flat thing that you can just agree to
[23:24] that's just like this is what I'm going
[23:25] to say. Nikki Gumball from the uh who
[23:27] did such wonderful work in establishing
[23:29] the alpha church says Christ removes the
[23:32] limited liability of the term neighbor
[23:36] when talking to the rich young ruler.
[23:39] >> Everyone is your neighbor.
[23:41] >> Everyone is your neighbor. And he also
[23:44] removes the li the limitation of what we
[23:46] should be willing to do to love and
[23:48] follow Christ. If there is something
[23:51] that you don't want to do in order to
[23:53] follow Christ, guess what?
[23:56] >> Yeah,
[23:56] >> that's the thing you've got to do. Well,
[23:58] I Well, I won't do that. It's very much
[24:00] I'd call it meatloaf Christianity. Um
[24:04] well, I'll do anything for Christ, but I
[24:06] won't do that. Whatever it is, you won't
[24:07] do. You better do that. I
[24:09] >> I like that you say there's one comment
[24:10] here actually because um for those that
[24:13] didn't join us last week, we talked
[24:14] about Mr. Rogers and someone at
[24:16] Elizabeth Hutton6153
[24:18] just off the back of what Russell said
[24:20] there about Nikki Gumble has said won't
[24:22] you be my neighbor? Isn't it cool he
[24:25] asked that and God called us to love our
[24:27] neighbor. Mr. Rogers really did love his
[24:30] neighbor. What a blessing he was and so
[24:32] are both of you. Thank you. Laura and
[24:34] Russell, thank you for being a blessing.
[24:36] Beth in Wonderland. Beth in Wonderland.
[24:37] >> Hey our friend.
[24:38] >> Hi Beth. Um so when you're saying what
[24:41] Nikki So uh I didn't even think about
[24:44] that. I didn't even think about the
[24:45] neighborly aspect from the Bible being
[24:48] applied there to like everybody. Won't
[24:49] you be my neighbor? Any single person
[24:51] that watches that show and obviously
[24:53] relating it there to what Nikki Gumbles
[24:55] said.
[24:55] >> Mr. Rogers simplifies it to something
[24:57] manageable and he really does and
[24:59] allegorical. It's just like one little
[25:02] neighborhood occupied by puppets that's
[25:04] got the same entity behind it. Christ.
[25:06] >> He will come and live with you and in
[25:08] you
[25:09] >> if you invite him. But you have to
[25:11] attune to the correct frequency. And
[25:14] attuning to the correct frequency means
[25:15] the one thing you won't let go of faith.
[25:18] No, I need to understand it. I need to
[25:20] understand it. Oh, you think you're
[25:21] going to understand it, do you? Yeah.
[25:22] You're going to understand it with your
[25:24] fiddlesticks pin brain. How could you
[25:26] possibly How could you possibly? In the
[25:28] same way that however much time I spend
[25:30] trying to explain the internet to my
[25:32] cat, it's never going to understand what
[25:34] I don't understand why the internet
[25:36] worked. [laughter] I don't understand
[25:38] anything actually. You live in blind
[25:41] faith.
[25:42] >> Yes. And and one thing I want to bring
[25:43] back about the the kind of comment thing
[25:45] or insecurity is that you know really
[25:49] >> ultimately how can we be how can we
[25:53] really truly be even offended when it's
[25:57] not in the eyes of God. It's not
[25:59] somebody that really truly knows us. It
[26:01] doesn't they don't know us. They don't
[26:02] know our soul. It's something that's
[26:04] just an outward expression of a of an
[26:06] anger within themselves.
[26:08] >> Judgment is in Christianity. the concept
[26:10] of final judgment that you are going to
[26:12] be judged also a temporality and a
[26:15] spatiality are in it i.e
[26:17] the ultimately this is happening beyond
[26:19] time and space like Michael Beck
[26:21] brilliantly said at Agar Church when
[26:23] Kobe Bryant died and the congregation
[26:26] takes a sharp intake of breath this
[26:28] being a Sunday by um as I recall Michael
[26:30] Beck with telling me
[26:32] >> he says to the congregation because he's
[26:34] in LA so there's a lot of like LA Lakers
[26:36] type people
[26:38] >> and uh like fans of that basketball team
[26:40] and a lot of African-Americans as it
[26:42] turns out if that consolidates it or
[26:44] concentrates it more I don't know you
[26:45] tell me uh like as there's a big
[26:47] reaction and and Michael Beckway says
[26:50] before you go where you're going like
[26:53] having your own reaction about Kobe
[26:55] Bryant dying who you probably don't know
[26:57] and he's just someone you care about cuz
[26:59] he's brilliant.
[27:00] >> Yeah, exactly. Goes in this moment who
[27:03] he has a wife and surviving children
[27:06] that are feeling reality. Now in this
[27:09] moment direct your attention and your
[27:10] love to them
[27:12] >> because in he says this in the final
[27:15] analysis all things are non-local and
[27:17] they will feel it
[27:18] >> like there's a deeper reality like Mr.
[27:20] Roger's neighborhood there. It's a sort
[27:22] of obviously a metaphor, but
[27:24] everything's a metaphor. Language is a
[27:26] metaphor. Everything you can't like in
[27:29] the end. What when does it become
[27:31] essential and irreducible?
[27:33] >> Um when when you say that and you say
[27:35] that every everyone will feel it. If
[27:37] you're praying towards the family and
[27:39] you're pray if you get everybody
[27:40] together and it's that feeling that it's
[27:42] uh cultivating that real positive um
[27:45] prayer towards that it's going to fill
[27:47] them and it's going to it's going to
[27:48] affect them on some level. uh I think
[27:51] about the idea or I thought about the
[27:52] idea of there's that meditate I remember
[27:54] there was that lady who wrote that good
[27:55] book on loving kindness I can't remember
[27:57] exactly um it was a meditation book
[27:59] actually uh and it was on the idea of
[28:02] the the affir affirming through
[28:04] meditation just like bringing loving
[28:06] kindness into the the what your output
[28:10] right and then I was imagining um
[28:12] >> the heart the heart and I was thinking
[28:15] of how
[28:16] >> your heart can what what they what one
[28:18] might say I I've hardened. My heart has
[28:20] hardened over time. I've had to do these
[28:23] things. I've put up with this stuff. But
[28:25] what we want is we want a the softening
[28:28] of the heart. We want the softening of
[28:30] the heart. And this is just when I'm
[28:32] just thinking about the way we speak,
[28:33] you know, because sometimes I might
[28:34] pray, you know,
[28:36] >> pray to, you know, you might say, let's
[28:39] call them enemies, if you will. You want
[28:41] to pray love towards enemies and
[28:44] >> specifically. Exactly. Right. Love your
[28:46] enemies. Love your enemies. Love your
[28:47] enemies. And you what you're praying for
[28:49] is you also are praying for sort of a
[28:51] softness of heart but that we don't want
[28:53] with the other side of a softness you
[28:55] would the idea might be fragility or the
[28:58] softness might imply
[29:00] uh weakness but it's not right
[29:03] >> he says I am the truth the life and the
[29:05] way and you're praying for the truth
[29:08] >> like the truth is that even the person
[29:10] that's saying the most awful thing about
[29:13] you imaginable
[29:14] >> the truth is that person is a beloved
[29:18] child of God
[29:19] >> and that we were refuse
[29:22] >> to enter into the illusion even an
[29:24] illusion that they think they're in
[29:25] themselves
[29:26] >> now if we like so we see them in love we
[29:29] see them in golden light beloved
[29:31] absolutely beloved and they will crack
[29:34] open that truth will appear in them I've
[29:36] seen this happen you know before even
[29:37] coming to the lord I remember a moment
[29:39] with my dad who at times I've had a
[29:40] difficult relationship with radat swami
[29:42] known as the maharaj among those that
[29:44] follow him swami g two others I was on a
[29:47] film set. Yeah, I think Jay Shetty was
[29:49] there, man. I was making a little movie
[29:52] for Telly, I think. Five children. Thank
[29:54] God Michael Kane was in it. Otherwise,
[29:56] Lord Long Island we were in, weren't we?
[29:58] And Ronnie, my dad, God love him. I pray
[30:00] for you, Ronnie, was there
[30:02] >> and you know Jet J. Shetty prejetty from
[30:07] the he was in service of Radnat Swami
[30:09] that he was pretty devoted to him. So
[30:11] like we can certainly testify to his
[30:13] sincerity like anyone that's has a
[30:15] public profile people question him
[30:16] continually
[30:18] >> and Radnut there's this moment where
[30:19] like you know
[30:21] >> Radnut Swami like sort of looked in my
[30:23] dad's face and said something like you
[30:26] are a good man and I watched my dad's
[30:29] face change. I watched him sort of go
[30:31] like he undone something in my dad in
[30:34] that moment.
[30:35] >> He undone something. He reached
[30:37] something in him. this holy man,
[30:40] >> this holy man touched something in him.
[30:42] >> Yeah, that's it. It's it's Oh,
[30:45] >> so love your enemies means that because
[30:47] like it says, even as our Lord says,
[30:50] even the hookers and the tax collectors
[30:52] love your friends. You know, being nice
[30:54] to you is no different than cleaning my
[30:56] teeth. I live with you. I've got you. I
[30:58] need you to be all right. I need you to
[31:00] be all right. But can I love people that
[31:03] have been said untruthful things about
[31:05] me? Can I love people that have
[31:07] generated negative? Yes. The truth is I
[31:09] can when I'm in him. He is the truth,
[31:11] the life, and the way. When I'm with
[31:12] him, I can because with him you are in
[31:14] judgment. Even like, you know,
[31:16] whatever's happening to you,
[31:18] you're going to die. You're going to
[31:20] die. Everyone, what do you think? You
[31:21] keeping this stuff. You think you're
[31:23] keeping it. You think your children
[31:24] aren't going to grow up and eventually
[31:26] forget die, man. Isn't this like don't
[31:28] you? when when our girls were babies,
[31:30] you know, Mabes and Pegs, I remember
[31:33] like or maybe even Mabel. I remember
[31:35] having a lot of these realizations just
[31:37] like drive past the bus stops, the
[31:38] little UK, see like an old lady on her
[31:40] own at a bus stop. Think,
[31:42] >> oh, that's someone's baby daughter. And
[31:44] then I saw the future. I just saw, oh,
[31:47] my little Mabel, an old lady alone at a
[31:50] bus stop one day. The brilliant English
[31:52] writer Alan Bennett says the trends
[31:56] around names. He says, you know, when
[31:58] you go to an old folks home and they're
[31:59] all full of veras and muds like you you
[32:04] kind goes, but one day the old folks
[32:07] home will be full of Kelly's and Darren,
[32:10] you know, like you know, like he goes,
[32:12] perhaps the difference in the name
[32:13] prevents us from seeing that that's who
[32:15] we are. We are all one. We are all one
[32:18] in him as as St. John says uh in his
[32:24] gospel the words of our lord
[32:26] 15 I am the true vine and my father is
[32:30] the gardener. He cuts off every branch
[32:32] in me that bears no fruit while every
[32:34] branch think of this as think in terms
[32:35] of neurology. Think in terms of these
[32:38] are image systems. But what is
[32:40] consciousness? What is the living water?
[32:43] >> He cuts off every branch in me that
[32:45] bears no fruit. While every branch that
[32:47] does bear fruit he prunes. Ow. hurts to
[32:50] be pruned so that it will be even more
[32:52] fruitful.
[32:53] >> Yes,
[32:54] >> you are already clean because of the
[32:56] word I have spoken to you. Remain in me
[33:00] >> as I also remain in you.
[33:02] >> No branch can bear fruit by itself. It
[33:04] must remain in the vine. Neither can you
[33:06] bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am
[33:08] the vine. You are the branches. If you
[33:10] remain in me and I in you, you will bear
[33:12] much fruit. Apart from me, you can do
[33:14] nothing. If you do not remain in me, you
[33:17] are like a branch that's thrown away and
[33:18] withers. Such frages are picked up and
[33:20] thrown into the fire and burned.
[33:22] >> Do you know what's funny? I sent this uh
[33:24] text to somebody this morning cuz we
[33:26] were funnily enough.
[33:28] >> Tell me their name, their identity. Who
[33:30] are they?
[33:31] >> For my friend Erica.
[33:32] >> Friends now, e [laughter] I suppose you
[33:34] prefer that to me. You'll leave me for
[33:37] these friends.
[33:38] >> Funny you have those spikes of energy,
[33:40] aren't you? [laughter]
[33:41] >> Sometimes I think there needs to be some
[33:43] craziness.
[33:44] >> I know. Yeah. No, I know. I like it. Um
[33:46] what I was thinking about was the fact
[33:48] that uh in the area that we live in
[33:51] they've they've there's been this
[33:53] massive uh tree cutting situation.
[33:56] Right. So uh the company that do the
[33:59] electrical uh power lines for
[34:01] >> Chelco.
[34:02] >> Okay. Chelco. You're not afraid to
[34:04] mention a name are you on here? No.
[34:07] >> They own Southland.
[34:08] >> All right. So they own Southland.
[34:10] Southland are the tree cutters. They are
[34:12] utility land clearers. Right. owned by
[34:15] Chelco.
[34:15] >> Owned by Chelco,
[34:16] >> a not for-p profofit electricity
[34:17] company.
[34:18] >> Yes, that's correct. You
[34:19] >> But they do own Southland, which is not
[34:22] not for profofit.
[34:23] >> Exactly. But here we go. This is what
[34:24] we're going to say. So, they've done
[34:26] this they've done this what this big job
[34:29] of a lot a lot I would call it a
[34:32] catastrophic level of tree clearing.
[34:34] Even trees that weren't interfering with
[34:36] the lines,
[34:37] >> they're allowed to uh prune and cut
[34:40] branches in order to clear uh what they
[34:44] call easements, like areas that they
[34:46] have to access. Now,
[34:48] >> and we're talking 25 to 30 year old
[34:50] trees. We're talking beautiful crepe
[34:52] myrtles, things that had been people
[34:54] have planted themselves in their gardens
[34:56] that were kind of obviously they might
[34:58] say encroaching near the line. And of
[35:00] course, it's all to prevent in storms
[35:02] these things falling on power cables.
[35:04] And it was in many ways, in many ways
[35:07] unjustified, even though they felt like
[35:09] they were just doing their job.
[35:10] >> That's certainly your perspective.
[35:11] >> My perspective. My perspective
[35:13] >> as a friend of Jesse over there at uh at
[35:18] Chelco,
[35:19] >> you know, I know him to be a good man.
[35:21] >> Yes. I'm not actually I'm not even
[35:22] really talking about Jesse because I'm
[35:24] seeing it as just an independent
[35:26] >> sort of it's like it got into the cogs
[35:29] of corporation and the people cutting
[35:32] the trees down who are individually good
[35:35] people
[35:35] >> just doing their jobs
[35:36] >> they're doing their jobs so they go
[35:38] along with the machine and it's got an
[35:39] arm and it's got this churner and it
[35:41] just takes everything down and I'm I'm
[35:44] it took quite a large area of near where
[35:46] we live and a lot of people have been
[35:48] very upset and so I've been looking
[35:50] about this thinking about the Bible
[35:51] thinking about the uh com um com uh
[35:54] comments on the uh trees and nature and
[35:57] life. And of course, we won't even cut a
[35:59] branch down even if it's actually
[36:01] genuinely encroaching on the house. Like
[36:03] even in a way we don't we like to like
[36:05] see trees as much as possible. It's it's
[36:07] good. It's nature. It's birds. It's
[36:08] squirrels. It's all the stuff. And um
[36:11] but it's upset a lot of people. And
[36:12] we've managed to get slightly stuck into
[36:15] this probably as a sort of maybe a
[36:17] distraction from other things we've got
[36:19] going on. It's been enjoyable to some
[36:21] degree because Russell's been going out
[36:23] on the road like yeah all right and I'm
[36:26] I'm having to also prep him by like are
[36:28] you befriending these are you telling
[36:30] them that we don't agree with the tree
[36:32] cutting and then he's like yeah but I'm
[36:34] trying to see both perspectives and I'm
[36:35] trying to I I think we're never going to
[36:37] reach an agreement if we aren't peaceful
[36:39] about it and we don't try and meet meet
[36:41] some understanding and mutual and you're
[36:44] totally right. You're totally right. One
[36:46] thing I will say is that the ethos of
[36:48] Chelco is very much about the community
[36:52] being priority and the preservation of
[36:54] nature because they know how important
[36:56] it is. So to see that all just being
[36:58] like wiped with the with the with the
[37:01] idea of that ethos on their website is
[37:03] something. So I I sent a message to a
[37:05] friend.
[37:05] >> I just say the reason Oh yeah, go on.
[37:07] >> Yeah. Before you continue, the houses
[37:10] that all of us live in Yeah.
[37:13] >> were once,
[37:14] >> you know, they were trees. So yeah like
[37:16] so like I know
[37:18] >> so it's like really
[37:21] >> when we are saying we like the trees
[37:23] look let me put it in a more honest way
[37:25] that's non-judgmental when I'm not with
[37:27] God and that happens to me sometimes
[37:29] >> like I said to you my own crying son
[37:32] when I'm if I'm honest what I want is
[37:35] the noise to stop
[37:37] >> I'm like I lose my connection to
[37:40] >> what are you okay in there my darling
[37:42] are you okay in there my darling allow
[37:44] me to heal you. What can I do for you?
[37:46] Sometimes I'm just that noise. Make that
[37:49] noise go. It
[37:50] >> it's it's a it's I think most parents
[37:52] will agree. I mean, certainly I know a
[37:54] lot of people that in the car when their
[37:55] kids are fighting, they just have to
[37:57] zone out. You can't hear it anymore, you
[37:59] know. Um I think that's a normal
[38:01] parenting and I completely completely
[38:03] hear you. And I think uh what how does
[38:05] that relate to the trees? It relates to
[38:07] it because that's in sometimes when
[38:09] you're honest you're only your your true
[38:11] position is I have a personal attachment
[38:14] and I see that tree as part of me and
[38:16] part of what I want and then I'm going
[38:18] to retroengineer a moral argument around
[38:21] what I want
[38:22] >> rather than God you are all powerful
[38:25] wherever you put me
[38:27] >> I am there I trust you Lord you are king
[38:30] you are supreme I'll do what do what you
[38:33] want with me
[38:34] >> cuz I'm already dead We stand in front
[38:36] of your throne now. God, you judge us.
[38:39] You judge us. Some souls go this way,
[38:42] some souls go this way. That is your
[38:43] word.
[38:44] >> And I I want to be with you, God.
[38:46] >> Well, I think actually even in the case
[38:48] of what we've been talking about earlier
[38:49] on in the show today, uh the sermon, the
[38:52] service, it's uh we talked about loving
[38:56] kindness towards people even so even in
[38:58] areas of like contention where there's
[39:00] especially especially love your enemy.
[39:03] And I think uh I have seen obviously
[39:05] that the impulse and even my own impulse
[39:07] was to kind of go out and take the keys
[39:10] out their machines and start screaming
[39:12] at them. And then when you actually kind
[39:13] of come face to face, you see all of the
[39:16] things about them. You see their
[39:18] >> scars,
[39:18] >> scars, you see their
[39:20] >> beauty, you see their kindness, you see
[39:22] their struggle. Uh because it's not like
[39:24] that some of them don't seem to even
[39:25] want to be doing it. Um so uh but when
[39:28] we come back to what the point really
[39:30] the point is is that I for the first
[39:31] time I found this passage using uh AI
[39:35] because I said to AI tell me show me
[39:37] everything about trees from the Bible.
[39:39] This is the one that I liked. At least
[39:41] there is hope for a tree. If it's cut
[39:43] down it will sprout again and its new
[39:45] shoots will not fail. Job 14:7. And then
[39:48] in that I thought how could we know that
[39:52] even in this right if you I this is how
[39:54] I thought about it. If you cut or trim
[39:57] or prune a tree, and what's made me
[39:58] think of this is Russell, you said about
[40:00] pruning back from the um John 15. Yeah.
[40:05] >> Um if you prune a tree or cut a tree, we
[40:09] cannot even know yet what might grow
[40:13] right from underneath that. You don't
[40:15] know what the light will hit and
[40:17] cultivate.
[40:18] >> And what I said to my friend was, you
[40:20] know, how could we know? Now we're
[40:22] feeling frustrated and encroached upon
[40:25] and like there's been this sort of it
[40:27] was when it was when our friends said to
[40:29] us, you know, that's 25 30 year old
[40:31] trees. I actually genuinely feel like
[40:33] they're talking about a human, you know,
[40:35] like it feels to me like it's like, oh
[40:37] gosh, imagine that tree working hard
[40:40] >> like Obelisk or Obelisk from Asterisk
[40:43] and Obelisk.
[40:44] >> He likes trees.
[40:46] >> Oh yeah, I felt like that. I felt like
[40:47] that. more like uh Swampy, the British
[40:50] activist from the 2000s who became a
[40:53] celebrity, but he was like one of them
[40:55] guys that just gets in a tree and won't
[40:56] let them cut trees down. I love trees
[40:58] also.
[40:58] >> Yeah. But here's the point. So I said,
[41:00] you know, the like here's the thing.
[41:02] When you cut back a tree, when you
[41:04] remove a tree or whatever, the light the
[41:06] light of the sun directly directly
[41:09] penetrates that land. And I'm trying to
[41:12] now imagine that by that vast pruning um
[41:17] that we can cultivate something even
[41:19] more beautiful, even more of a of a
[41:21] perfect garden.
[41:22] >> Look at our own lives, my darling. Look
[41:24] at our lives. Look at our lives.
[41:25] >> Exactly.
[41:26] >> Now, in a sense, that's it. Like, you
[41:27] know, in the sort of Chinese folklore,
[41:30] there's that famous adage, you know, the
[41:33] man's son gets taken to war. Like,
[41:36] >> we don't know this actually.
[41:37] >> Oh, man. It's so long.
[41:39] Don't say it all now.
[41:41] >> Is that so? Kind of thing.
[41:43] >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
[41:44] >> Oh it's it's good news that your kids
[41:46] got to you know is that yeah you know we
[41:49] don't bloody know basically. Now to your
[41:51] point of Joe Job 14.
[41:54] >> Uh now Job is a difficult book. Some say
[41:57] it's you know like it's an old old book.
[41:59] Mesopotamian may even predate
[42:03] other texts in a way that's sort of
[42:05] confusing. It begins with a battle
[42:06] between good and evil. It's difficult.
[42:08] One can speculate what the relationship
[42:09] is between Lucifer and God at this point
[42:11] and the energy and image system that is
[42:14] God, the source, the creator, the
[42:16] principle, the creator of all patterns,
[42:17] the infinite
[42:19] >> and and what we mean by Satan, Lucifer,
[42:22] the fallen one. Nice.
[42:23] >> Thank you.
[42:24] >> You like that?
[42:24] >> I love that. I love that the sun just
[42:27] broke through the clouds. I really do
[42:29] love that. So 14 he is talking Job is
[42:33] mortals born of woman are of a few days
[42:36] and full of trouble. They spring up like
[42:39] flowers and wither away like fleeting
[42:41] shadows. They do not endure. Do you fix
[42:44] your eyes on them? Do you read the
[42:46] comments? Do you care about the
[42:47] comments? I did that. Will you bring
[42:50] [laughter]
[42:50] >> She genuinely thought you were a reader.
[42:52] I had to
[42:52] >> just changing the Bible. Who knows what
[42:54] I might do as I as I get more confident.
[42:56] Um do you fix your eye on them? Will you
[42:59] bring them before you for judgment? Who
[43:01] can bring what is pure from the impure?
[43:04] No one.
[43:04] >> A person's days are determined. You have
[43:07] decreed the number of his months. So
[43:09] this is Job talking to God. Huh.
[43:11] >> And have set limits. He cannot exceed.
[43:14] So look away from him and let him alone.
[43:17] God. Job is lamenting. He's like, God,
[43:19] I'm having a bit of a hard time here.
[43:22] >> Please, will you let me go, man?
[43:24] >> Yes. Tilly has put in his time like a
[43:28] hired laborer. Oh, how beautiful that
[43:29] lang that that language gets there when
[43:31] you think of the prodigal, the prodigal
[43:32] son. I'll just go back and live with my
[43:34] father like a hired laborer man. And
[43:36] what did his father do? He runs to him
[43:39] and grabs him and gathers him up. At
[43:41] least [clears throat] there's hope for a
[43:42] tree. If it's cut down, it will sprout
[43:44] again. And its new shoots will not fail.
[43:47] Its roots may grow old in the ground and
[43:50] its stump die in the soil. Yet at the
[43:53] scent of water it will bud and put forth
[43:56] shoots like a plant, but a man dies and
[43:58] is laid low. He breathes his last and is
[44:02] no more as the water of a lake dries up
[44:05] or a river or a riverbed becomes parched
[44:08] and dry. So he lies down and does not
[44:11] rise. But who does rise? Who does rise?
[44:14] Till the heavens are no more. People
[44:16] will not awake or be roused from their
[44:18] sleep. So Job is yet another proto
[44:20] Christrist. And in his lamentation, he
[44:22] makes the appeal. He prepares
[44:26] >> and uh demonstrates the necessity for
[44:30] the divine incarnation for flesh to be
[44:34] divonized, sacrificed by Christ, by God
[44:37] coming in human form on the human
[44:39] bandwidth.
[44:40] >> If only you would hide me in the grave
[44:42] and conceal me till your anger has
[44:44] passed. Oh my god, that sort of
[44:46] beautiful preempting of the tomb and the
[44:49] three days between the death on the
[44:51] cross and the resurrection. If only you
[44:53] would set me a time and then remember
[44:55] me. If someone dies, will they live
[44:57] again? Question mark. All the days of my
[45:00] hard service, I will wait for my
[45:02] renewal. Renewing of your mind to come.
[45:04] If you will call and I will answer you,
[45:07] you will long for the creature your
[45:08] hands have made. Surely then you will
[45:10] count my steps but not keep track of my
[45:12] sin. We need to be forgiven. My offenses
[45:15] will be sealed up in a bag. You will
[45:17] cover over my sin. This is what Christ
[45:19] does. But as a mountain erodess and
[45:21] crumbles and as a rock is moved from its
[45:23] place, as water wears away, stones and
[45:26] torrents wash away the soil. So you
[45:29] destroy a person's hope. You overpower
[45:31] them once for all and they are gone. You
[45:34] change their countenance and send them
[45:35] away. If their children are honored,
[45:37] they do not know it. If their children
[45:38] are bought low, they do not see it.
[45:40] Mabel at the bus stop. They feel but the
[45:43] pain of their own bodies and mourn only
[45:46] for themselves. If you live in self,
[45:48] you're already dead. The wages of sin
[45:50] are death. And then uh Job's lament ends
[45:53] and one of his dopey mates gives him
[45:56] some sort of answer. But when I first
[45:57] read the Bible, I was trying to
[45:59] understand like because there's stuff in
[46:00] the Bible that's parody like the the
[46:03] commentary and interactions. It's very
[46:05] like a Greek play or something.
[46:07] >> Yeah.
[46:08] The things that Elephaz and all them say
[46:10] are parody. Like they give Job advice.
[46:13] Like you know when you're getting advice
[46:15] when you're in a serious situation like
[46:17] as TS Lewis would say, "No,
[46:20] >> that's not it at all. That's not it at
[46:22] all." Like when you're like, "Oh no, no
[46:25] one understands what I'm going through.
[46:27] No one understands." And that's what
[46:29] part of Job's anguish is the inability
[46:31] of those around him to identify with
[46:32] him. But people that are with Christ
[46:34] that know that we are of one vine, that
[46:36] we branch of the same vine, the comfort
[46:38] they can offer is sometimes. Look, I
[46:40] don't know what you're going through. I
[46:42] don't know what it's like to be you. I
[46:44] don't know what it's like to suffer your
[46:45] problem, but we are here and we are one
[46:46] and we know that God is real. He is
[46:48] transcendent. He's transcendent of this.
[46:51] And whatever it is you're afraid of and
[46:53] whatever it is you're feeling,
[46:55] >> he suffered all of this. You can be with
[46:58] him on that cross. You were with him on
[47:00] that cross. You can be with him in the
[47:03] resurrection. You are with him in the
[47:04] resurrection. The price is you get out
[47:07] of the illusion.
[47:09] >> That's right.
[47:09] >> And this new rain falls on the severed
[47:12] branches and the soil is enriched.
[47:15] >> You're right. And and thank you for
[47:17] working through that with me in this way
[47:19] because from the beginning of this
[47:20] podcast, I was I was probably I said to
[47:23] Russell before the show today like I
[47:25] feel sort of too tired. But I realized
[47:28] what the tiredness is is a sort of a
[47:32] feeling of not wanting to confront what
[47:34] I felt what I feel.
[47:36] >> That's so good that you know that.
[47:37] >> Yeah. Um we have a a message from
[47:40] somebody on that we've been sent on
[47:44] Instagram or something. I'm not sure but
[47:46] um we wanted to play it and answer
[47:48] apparently. It's a question but it is
[47:49] two minutes. What do you think?
[47:51] >> Well good luck getting two minutes of
[47:52] silence out of me. But Massie our
[47:54] producer has sent this. So, let's listen
[47:56] to this. And if you have a message for
[47:57] us, please uh why don't you send it to
[47:59] us on Instagram and we'll do our level
[48:00] best to help in the way that we're
[48:02] helping. Do we even know this person's
[48:03] name?
[48:04] >> Don't know the person's name.
[48:05] >> Guys, please tell us the person's name.
[48:07] So, if this is you, right, let's hear it
[48:08] then. Let's hold it to the microphone.
[48:10] >> All right, we ready.
[48:11] >> This is helping you with the brands
[48:17] >> team. Um,
[48:19] >> probably won't listen to this message,
[48:22] but it's okay. probably won't listen to
[48:24] his message. Probably are
[48:25] >> a very long time. For a number of years,
[48:28] I've watched your YouTube. Uh
[48:31] >> sounds a bit like your brother and my
[48:32] cousin.
[48:33] >> Gone over to Rumble and um and
[48:37] everywhere. And sometimes I watch,
[48:40] sometimes I don't. But
[48:42] >> what disloyal
[48:43] >> time like um I've watched you. I saw you
[48:48] turn to God, turn
[48:52] >> and
[48:52] >> turn to Jesus.
[48:53] >> It gave me a massive push
[48:55] >> in the right direction. And then I saw
[48:59] and I watched that
[49:00] >> and that was beautiful. And it really
[49:03] turned me to Jesus. And
[49:07] >> now I still have like um a problem with
[49:11] alcohol. It's okay. Like I'm dealing
[49:14] with it and I'm on the path. I started
[49:16] going to church every Sunday uh for the
[49:19] last
[49:20] >> It's good that you're going to church.
[49:21] It's not okay that you have a problem
[49:22] with alcohol. Not that I'm judging you.
[49:25] I'm loving you. Stop drinking one day at
[49:28] a time and get help. There are 12step
[49:30] fellowships available that have the word
[49:32] alcoholics in the name and are anonymous
[49:37] for people to attend and one day at a
[49:39] time you will get the support. You can't
[49:41] on your own do this. You need God, but
[49:43] you might not even know how to get God
[49:45] on your own.
[49:47] >> It's with my girlfriend this way, which
[49:48] is amazing. And on occasion, we prayed
[49:52] together in bed. That's beautiful. But
[49:56] >> um nobody talks about the question I'm
[50:00] going to ask and that is like sometimes
[50:03] when I pray I have goosebumps. The hairs
[50:07] on my arm arms and body and legs stand
[50:12] up and I really feel the Holy Spirit.
[50:17] Well, all right. I know you not finished
[50:19] the question, but that's God with you.
[50:20] today when me and my daughters stayed at
[50:23] a hotel spontaneously yesterday as a
[50:25] result of me attending an event
[50:27] connected to one of the groups that I
[50:30] attend in order to not drink or take
[50:32] drugs one day at a time. And a woman,
[50:36] her name was Whitney, hello Whitney,
[50:39] came up to me and she talked to me about
[50:42] our Lord Christ and she said, "Oh,
[50:44] whenever I get those goosebumps," and
[50:46] you love a goosebump, don't you? I think
[50:47] we talked about it on week two or three
[50:49] of the show.
[50:50] >> I mean, I don't want to word this
[50:52] >> calmly. I'm a goosebumper. Go on.
[50:55] >> I'd say you're almost a pedophile for
[50:56] goosebumps.
[50:59] >> I do get goosebumps probably more often
[51:01] than necessary.
[51:02] >> You're a bumper file. [laughter]
[51:04] >> You're after them goosebumps.
[51:06] >> But one thing when I did say that that
[51:08] week because I think I must have said I
[51:10] got goosebumps over I don't know like I
[51:12] don't know we were talking about I like
[51:14] Patrick sees or it was something random.
[51:17] It wasn't about God, was it? That week
[51:19] we It came up river dance. It was river
[51:22] dance or something. And yeah, go on.
[51:24] >> Well, because the goosebump is that
[51:27] >> consider the consider that consider this
[51:31] because it's pretty simple. But within
[51:33] you is an abyss. Just imagine that, a
[51:34] nothingness. And then outside of you, a
[51:36] nothingness. And these two nothingnesses
[51:39] are connected just by five fishing
[51:41] lines. That's all we've got. The sense
[51:43] of sight, the sense of smell, the sense
[51:45] of hearing. And you know, I'm sure
[51:46] there's some nuance to that, but when
[51:48] you feel something on your skin like
[51:50] that as a response to God, mate, at that
[51:52] moment,
[51:53] >> then that is a communion, a connection.
[51:56] And this is what this woman Whitney was
[51:58] talking to me about this morning, as we
[52:00] said, as I I discussed with her the idea
[52:03] that we are with Christ in all eternity,
[52:05] through all eternity. And even if you
[52:08] approach this not only from a secular
[52:09] but from a materialistic and atheistic
[52:11] perspective
[52:13] that if the way that we detect that the
[52:15] big bang was 13.8 billion years ago is
[52:18] by measuring particles and the rate of
[52:20] motion uh we could detect that 13.8
[52:23] billion years ago if you were to reverse
[52:24] the direction it would all have been
[52:26] some submolelecular particle etc etc.
[52:28] Yeah. Then all things were one. All
[52:31] things were one. M
[52:32] >> and as we always say no one knows what
[52:34] was happening on the Tuesday afternoon
[52:36] before that big bang and in that for a
[52:38] moment as in quantum entanglement
[52:41] in that moment there is no time or space
[52:44] do you feel him in you you know that you
[52:46] are with him you know that it's him
[52:48] talking to him all the time did you have
[52:50] something
[52:51] >> no I'm saying let's continue
[52:53] >> I am into it when I'm singing when I
[52:56] when I uh feel completely surrendered I
[53:02] No one talks about that. So, I would
[53:04] love for you to talk about how you feel
[53:07] God and if that's nor if that's a normal
[53:11] thing or if I'm just going mad. Um,
[53:15] and I don't know like
[53:17] >> I feel like I I know it's God. It's God.
[53:21] It happens when I pray and then come on
[53:25] talking and and it happens
[53:27] >> and that's incredible.
[53:30] And I just like
[53:33] nobody talks about it. The people I know
[53:36] that are kind of Christian, I say that
[53:38] to them, they're like, "Oh, it's
[53:39] amazing." [laughter] Like they don't
[53:41] actually say that happens.
[53:44] >> Is it a normal thing?
[53:46] Do people get that? Actually, anyway, if
[53:50] you can do something on that, that would
[53:52] be great. Gold, love your work, love the
[53:55] team, all good vibes, and and keep doing
[53:58] what you're doing, guys. It's it's
[54:00] inspiring and amazing and it's brought
[54:02] me brought me much closer to God than I
[54:05] ever thought I would be.
[54:07] >> What could be better than to hear that
[54:09] from somebody? What a beautiful thing to
[54:11] say.
[54:11] >> They making me get goosebumps and
[54:13] welling welling arc.
[54:14] >> I got tears. I got goosebumps. I think I
[54:16] felt a stirring.
[54:17] >> I hope no. [laughter]
[54:19] >> Please.
[54:20] >> Well, listen. This is what I think about
[54:21] that, mate. Yeah, people do feel that.
[54:22] That's feel that's the Holy Spirit. I
[54:24] mean, when I think of some of the
[54:25] teachers and the people that I prayed
[54:26] with, they like that. A lot of them are
[54:27] like, "Look, look." They're always doing
[54:28] stuff like that to me. So,
[54:29] >> I mean, we should notice, we should
[54:31] focus on that.
[54:32] >> Pay attention to it.
[54:32] >> Yeah, we should because I know I get
[54:35] goosebumps and I'm now just thinking
[54:37] it's almost an inconvenience.
[54:40] No, just like ow. We like almost like
[54:42] it's a joke, but actually I probably
[54:44] overlook it. I get it. I often get it.
[54:46] And it's spirit. It's holy spirit.
[54:49] >> Is it?
[54:50] >> I think so. My darling, your guess is as
[54:52] good as mine. I mean um but what I would
[54:54] say is conform not to the patterns of
[54:57] this world but be transformed by the
[54:58] renewing of your mind. I you have access
[55:00] to eternity and it's coming through you
[55:02] and you're feeling it and the old you is
[55:04] dying and moving away and the Lord will
[55:06] finish the work that he started in us.
[55:08] >> Also you
[55:09] >> thank you for those that high praise.
[55:11] This is what we're here to do. We're
[55:12] here to bring one another closer to God
[55:14] and to walk together.
[55:15] >> You sound like a very beautiful person.
[55:17] >> I thought you sounded like a perve.
[55:20] You sound like a very very beautiful
[55:22] person when you're
[55:22] >> sing handed that message to the police
[55:24] [laughter]
[55:25] [gasps]
[55:26] >> when you're um I like the idea that
[55:28] you're even, you know, that you're
[55:29] speaking to God in the car and you're
[55:31] singing and it's that moment. Yeah.
[55:34] >> What a beautiful message. Thank you so
[55:36] much. Perhaps Massie will add add the
[55:38] name of the person, the first name of
[55:40] the person or perhaps not. Maybe the
[55:41] person will just hear it and
[55:43] >> mysterious
[55:44] >> remains mysterious.
[55:45] >> Part of the mystery that makes the skin
[55:47] tremble.
[55:48] >> Yes, that's right. That's I do want to
[55:50] wrap up.
[55:50] >> Okay. But then let me say if you have
[55:53] any inquiries or questions uh send it to
[55:55] the link below and we will do those
[55:58] every week now. And what I want to say
[56:01] also is remember my book How to Become a
[56:03] Christian in Seven Days is available
[56:04] there. Remember, we're not going to make
[56:05] no money out of it. If it makes any
[56:07] money, we're going to
[56:08] >> do something good with it.
[56:10] >> And uh it's free. There's an audio book
[56:12] if you want it. Link link link. There
[56:14] are those there are those links. Um
[56:16] perfect.
[56:17] >> And what do you want to press out? Am I
[56:18] praying?
[56:19] >> Why would you not?
[56:20] >> Okay. Okay.
[56:22] >> I'll get on my knees where I belong.
[56:24] >> Okay.
[56:28] >> Dear God.
[56:30] Dear God,
[56:32] thank you for being with us here today.
[56:35] God, I know I know you're here.
[56:39] It's it's it's in the richness even of
[56:42] this natural experience whether it's
[56:44] rain or if it's sunlight or if it's
[56:47] >> that charming beautiful message from the
[56:50] unknown person who knows who they are
[56:52] they know who they are. Thank you. Thank
[56:54] you for bringing this to us today so
[56:58] that we could work with the experiences
[57:00] of our week and our feelings and you
[57:02] know without shame bring forth the
[57:07] insecurities and and the the fears and
[57:12] the
[57:14] questions we have without the fear of
[57:16] embarrassment or the feeling that we
[57:18] shouldn't be asking it but with the
[57:19] total confidence and comfort that this
[57:21] is a good a good place a good place for
[57:24] that. And thank you, God, for that
[57:26] provision.
[57:28] Thank you. Bless the people that have
[57:32] left all types of comments. God, may
[57:35] their hearts be filled with love and
[57:39] may they find what they are looking for
[57:40] in this life, which is you ultimately.
[57:44] >> They might not know it, but show
[57:46] yourself to them.
[57:47] >> Oh yes.
[57:49] >> Thank you, God, for today, for this
[57:51] Sunday service.
[57:54] And thank you for my husband and my my
[57:56] family, my children.
[57:58] I love very much. I love you, God. Thank
[58:02] you. Amen.
[58:04] >> Amen. Thank you, God, for letting me be
[58:06] married to Laura. Thank you for choosing
[58:08] me for her and her for me. What a great
[58:11] blessing. Thank you for all the people
[58:13] that work on this podcast. I bet that
[58:14] Nikki gave that to Nassie, that message.
[58:17] Pray for that young man to feel more and
[58:18] more of God and to be free from anything
[58:20] that torments him. And I reiterate
[58:23] Laura's prayer. Anyone who wishes harm
[58:26] to us or wishes or anyone who is hurt,
[58:29] who has been hurt, our Lord, we pray for
[58:31] deep revelation and the deep presence of
[58:34] God. We pray for your justice and your
[58:37] truth and your wisdom and your life and
[58:39] your way because without you there ain't
[58:40] no truth. There ain't no justice. There
[58:42] ain't no life. There ain't no wisdom
[58:44] without you, Lord. So thank you, Father,
[58:46] for the bringing of your kingdom.
[59:01] >> [sighs and gasps]
[59:02] >> We pray in your holy name, heavenly
[59:04] father. Amen.
[59:06] >> Amen.
[59:06] >> Praise Jesus.
[59:07] >> Praise Jesus.
[59:08] >> Oh Jesus.
[59:10] >> Is that you speaking in tongues?
[59:12] >> Oh Russ. Oh Russ.
[59:15] >> Cuz sometimes that's surprising to me.
[59:17] >> Yeah, I know. No, I'm a surprising guy.
[59:22] >> My body swinging from side to side. I
[59:24] don't see what anyone can see
[59:26] >> for you, Laura.
[59:27] >> Thank you.
[59:38] >> [music]
