Transcript
[0:00] Welcome back to this mini series on the
[0:03] four thoughts that turn the mind. And in
[0:06] today's episode, we're going to work
[0:08] with karma, cause and effect.
[0:11] So, a brief introduction to the four
[0:14] thoughts that turn the mind.
[0:15] Also, a reminder if you haven't watched
[0:17] the first video, the introduction in
[0:20] general, just a longer introduction, I I
[0:22] recommend you watch that. And if you
[0:25] want to do these practices in order, you
[0:27] could also go back to the one on
[0:29] precious human birth.
[0:32] But either way, these four thoughts that
[0:33] turn the mind are something common as a
[0:36] set of practices done in in all lineages
[0:40] of Himalayan Buddhism. I believe they're
[0:42] they're probably also done in different
[0:43] forms in in other Buddhism.
[0:46] And sometimes you see them in the form
[0:48] I'm presenting them here in in what's
[0:50] called the four thoughts that turn the
[0:51] mind. Sometimes it's in what's called
[0:54] the Lamrim or the graduated stages of
[0:56] the path, in particular what we call the
[0:58] small and medium scopes of the Lamrim.
[1:01] And they are considered vital for a
[1:04] serious practitioner, for anyone who
[1:05] wants to attain awakening
[1:08] in this life or in future lives.
[1:11] They recommend using these as a means as
[1:14] a skillful means to develop what's
[1:16] called renunciation mind.
[1:18] So, as I've described in previous
[1:20] episodes here,
[1:21] a renunciation mind is not about
[1:24] rejecting the world. It's not only about
[1:27] changing one's outer circumstances or
[1:30] you know,
[1:31] going and living in the forest.
[1:33] It's more about how we transform our
[1:35] mind, which creates a sense of
[1:39] exhaustion with the status quo of our
[1:42] samsaric experience, right? And so, when
[1:44] that happens, then we add on later in
[1:48] the Mahayana path what we call
[1:49] Bodhicitta as the main motivation for
[1:51] our practice, which is the the wish to
[1:53] attain awakening for the benefit of all
[1:55] beings, to help bring them to awakening.
[1:58] And so, we develop aspirational
[1:59] bodhicitta on the basis of having
[2:02] developed renunciation mind. How I
[2:03] usually put this is um in relation to
[2:08] dukkha. So, when we
[2:10] sit with our dukkha, when we work with
[2:12] our dukkha, when we investigate it, we
[2:14] have a deeper knowledge and
[2:15] understanding of how suffering,
[2:18] dissatisfaction, and stress is caused
[2:20] for us.
[2:21] When we have that, and then of course
[2:22] we're developing a wish to counter that
[2:25] or remedy that, of course that's going
[2:26] to affect how we want to benefit and
[2:29] help and serve others, right? And we're
[2:31] going to be able to see a deeper uh
[2:34] perspective in uh of what they're going
[2:37] through, have deeper empathy, have
[2:38] deeper compassion, and all of that. And
[2:40] deeper empathy, compassion, and love
[2:42] lead to bodhicitta.
[2:44] So, for me, um when we when we neglect
[2:46] the development of renunciation mind,
[2:48] not only does it hinder our own path,
[2:50] because it's sort of like it it's sort
[2:52] of the fuel that drives the path, but it
[2:54] also can hinder the meditations and
[2:57] practices we do later in relation to
[2:59] bodhicitta, emptiness, Mahamudra,
[3:01] Dzogchen, you know, the Vajrayana path.
[3:04] Um it's all based on this.
[3:06] Now, with that said, um
[3:08] great if someone can develop
[3:09] renunciation mind quickly and sort of
[3:11] just, you know, go about it, and then
[3:13] they have all the the fuel they need to
[3:15] sort of spend their time wisely on the
[3:17] Dharma.
[3:18] Wonderful. Um I think for most of us,
[3:20] myself included,
[3:22] it's more like a a a thing we nurture
[3:24] and grow slowly, right? In the sense
[3:26] that we may reflect on these four
[3:28] thoughts every day
[3:30] at some point in our meditation session.
[3:32] We may bring them out into the world,
[3:34] because they're they're they're great
[3:36] reflections to bring into, you know,
[3:38] impermanence in daily life, um noticing
[3:41] the different kinds of dukkha that arise
[3:43] within us and in the world around us,
[3:46] and developing exhaustion with that,
[3:47] with the causes of that, etc.
[3:49] So, these are very useful. Now, what
[3:53] were what I'm introducing here in
[3:54] particular is not just the understanding
[3:56] of them and I and I already encouraged
[3:58] in previous episodes, you know, I I'm
[4:00] not teaching these extensively, but I
[4:03] recommend reading commentaries, reading
[4:05] commentaries by Patrul Rinpoche in Words
[4:07] of My Perfect Teacher or the Lamrim by
[4:09] by Jason Kapau or um Jewel Ornament of
[4:12] Liberation by Gampopa. These are all
[4:14] texts that go deeply into these topics.
[4:18] As well as there's modern teachers who
[4:20] have lots of teachings online um in
[4:23] courses and books that you can read um
[4:26] on these subjects. So, we have to inform
[4:29] the meditation uh particularly in this
[4:31] area because there's a lot of detail to
[4:33] what we're doing.
[4:35] And then from that informing we we start
[4:36] to develop a conviction through
[4:38] reflection. We reflect on, you know, is
[4:41] this true or not, right? We weigh it
[4:42] against our own beliefs and biases and
[4:45] we develop more conviction that way. But
[4:47] that's just um conviction and
[4:49] understanding. That's conviction in sort
[4:52] of an in what we call an intellectual uh
[4:54] conviction.
[4:55] In order to deepen that, to actually
[4:57] transform our conduct of body, speech,
[4:59] and mind and really help us to move
[5:01] towards more Dharma in this life, uh we
[5:04] need to meditate on it. And in
[5:06] particular, uh we use the style of
[5:08] meditation we call uh investigative or
[5:11] analytical meditation.
[5:13] Uh it's not a great translation, but um
[5:16] it's what we have in English. Uh
[5:18] but
[5:19] typically this comes from the Tibetan
[5:21] word um che gom. So, gom means to
[5:23] familiarize the mind with something
[5:24] virtuous.
[5:25] Che means uh to churn or turn or pull
[5:28] apart or investigate something, right?
[5:30] There's different ways to translate it.
[5:33] And uh we merge that with what's with
[5:36] what's called jok gom in Tibetan. So,
[5:38] gom again, same thing, familiarizing the
[5:40] mind.
[5:40] Jok means to rest the mind, right? So,
[5:43] what a lot of you are familiar with as
[5:45] meditation is is more of what we would
[5:47] call jok gom, like resting the mind in
[5:49] shamatha in in the present moment in
[5:51] awareness.
[5:52] And in this kind of meditation, we merge
[5:54] that with the investigative, the pulling
[5:57] apart.
[5:58] So, this is slightly different as I
[6:00] mentioned in previous episodes from the
[6:03] kind of investigation we would do
[6:05] through thought in general in Western
[6:08] culture, where we're trying to find an
[6:10] answer or a conclusion.
[6:12] In this particular kind of investigative
[6:14] meditation and
[6:17] using the thinking mind in a positive
[6:19] way,
[6:20] uh we're not actually trying to find a
[6:21] conclusion. That would have happened in
[6:23] the stage of study and understanding.
[6:25] Like we're learning the Dharma, we're
[6:26] reading, you know, a commentary or
[6:28] whatever, you're listening to me
[6:29] introduce it a little bit here, and we
[6:31] develop some more understanding, we
[6:33] reflect on that, we gain more
[6:34] conviction.
[6:36] That would be more conclusion-based.
[6:38] Now, in the meditation, we're letting go
[6:40] of the conclusion so we can develop
[6:42] experience. And experience is what
[6:44] transforms us.
[6:45] Ultimately, what transforms us is what's
[6:47] called realization, and each of these
[6:49] four thoughts actually do have a
[6:50] particular realization.
[6:52] Um
[6:53] for some of them multiple realizations
[6:55] we develop. And realization that the
[6:57] difference between an experience and a
[6:58] realization is a realization doesn't go
[6:59] back. Like we can experience
[7:01] impermanence deeply, and mhm I don't
[7:04] know, it really transforms our day and
[7:06] it changes our actions, we move more
[7:08] towards the Dharma, we waste less time
[7:10] on sort of meaningless things.
[7:13] But then the next day, you know, we get
[7:14] caught in
[7:15] you know, Facebook again or whatever or
[7:17] you know, [clears throat] TikTok,
[7:18] whatever. Pick your social media poison.
[7:21] YouTube. Um
[7:23] and
[7:24] and so the realization would be that
[7:26] doesn't revert, right? So, we want to
[7:28] practice these until that starts to
[7:29] happen. And as I said, these are not
[7:31] like singular, oh here's what you'll
[7:33] experience. There's a lot of levels and
[7:35] stages in these. Um
[7:37] but either way, um I recommend, if
[7:38] you're interested in these and you're
[7:40] you're finding some uh benefit in
[7:42] practicing them with me, See if you can
[7:44] study them more and we're always
[7:45] developing understanding, reflection,
[7:47] and meditation together. It's not like
[7:49] we finish one and then go to the other
[7:50] one. They're they're often happening
[7:51] simultaneously. So, there's always more
[7:53] understanding we can develop.
[7:55] Of course, from experience, that also
[7:58] informs understanding, right? So, they
[8:00] work together.
[8:02] Um so, today we're going to work with
[8:05] the the
[8:06] one of the four thoughts we call karma,
[8:08] cause and effect.
[8:10] Um
[8:11] as I said earlier, this you know, there
[8:13] are things in these four thoughts that
[8:15] are asking us to investigate or um
[8:20] be open to things that we cannot see,
[8:23] that we cannot immediately say, "Okay, I
[8:26] can see that, therefore it exists."
[8:28] And the truth is when you actually look
[8:29] at a lot of things in life, um that is
[8:32] the case, right? So, we just assume it's
[8:34] there because other people have seen it
[8:36] or because, you know, it's a place or it
[8:39] has these particular characteristics.
[8:41] And we assume because it's material that
[8:43] it exists. Actually, a lot of modern
[8:45] Western science is disproving that,
[8:48] right? Meaning like modern physics, you
[8:50] know, a a physical object is more space
[8:53] than material.
[8:55] But again, this is sort of just things
[8:57] you can investigate on your own. But my
[8:59] basic point here is that we do have to
[9:01] challenge our assumptions.
[9:03] Uh I'll give you another example.
[9:05] When gravity was was discovered, I'm
[9:07] pretty sure most people didn't like
[9:09] that.
[9:10] >> [laughter]
[9:10] >> You know, they must be like, "That's
[9:11] ridiculous. What witchcraft is this?"
[9:13] you know, etc.
[9:14] But now we just accept it blindly. Oh
[9:16] yeah, gravity, of course, right? So,
[9:17] there's a lot of things like that over
[9:19] the over the course of history that as
[9:22] maybe scientific instruments become more
[9:24] developed, we can see more of the
[9:26] relative world than we could.
[9:28] And for a meditator, as we meditate, we
[9:31] can actually infer something through
[9:34] logical reasoning. That's most mostly
[9:35] what we're doing here, but eventually it
[9:37] becomes a realization. We can see it.
[9:38] So, for a very advanced
[9:40] Buddhist meditator, they don't have to
[9:42] infer impermanence through reasoning.
[9:45] They can see it. It's direct, right? So,
[9:48] what Buddhism is doing is, of course, we
[9:51] have to use inferential logic to gain
[9:53] conviction that something is more likely
[9:55] than not, right? That's kind of what
[9:56] we're doing here.
[9:58] What it's doing is it's actually moving
[10:00] more towards a wider
[10:02] scope of direct seeing of what reality
[10:06] is, right? So, we kind of use this as a
[10:09] jumping off point. As I already said, we
[10:11] we use the four thoughts as a way to
[10:14] develop more conviction in the path and
[10:16] as fuel to fuel us in meditation.
[10:20] So, as we then take that into an
[10:23] understanding and reflection and
[10:25] meditation on karma cause and effect,
[10:27] um I will say in the in this I've said
[10:30] this in previous episodes. Um I forgot
[10:32] to mention at the beginning of this
[10:33] series, but I did a really long series
[10:35] on the a text called the three principal
[10:37] aspects of the path by Lama Tsongkhapa.
[10:40] In there, it goes through these four
[10:41] thoughts, too. So, you can go back to
[10:43] that if you want some more, you know, um
[10:45] teachings from me on that. But, as I
[10:48] said, I would highly recommend just
[10:49] going to the lineage commentaries, uh
[10:52] Words of My Perfect Teacher, Jewel
[10:53] Ornament of Liberation, Lamrim, etc.
[10:57] Um
[10:59] So,
[11:00] oh, as I said in that series, karma is
[11:03] one of these words that often evokes a
[11:05] lot of misunderstanding. Um there is a
[11:08] popular version of karma that's not
[11:10] actually what what's really being taught
[11:12] or talked about in Buddhism.
[11:13] To start off, karma is a relative truth.
[11:15] It's not an ultimate truth. When we're
[11:17] talking that karma guides sort of the
[11:20] the the results of actions,
[11:23] uh we're not saying that that is
[11:26] irrefutable and it's coming down from
[11:28] some sort of grand higher power are some
[11:31] trip on you and some prison system.
[11:33] Actually,
[11:34] karma was pointed out by the Buddha as a
[11:36] form of imprisonment that we do to
[11:39] ourselves. So, the Buddha was pointing
[11:41] it out as a deeper recognition of
[11:44] relative truth that binds us to stress,
[11:47] dissatisfaction, and suffering.
[11:50] So, when we look at it like that, it
[11:51] kind of flips how we think of karma. So,
[11:54] it's not really something, oh, this is
[11:55] just some weird religious idea, some
[11:57] trip someone's trying to put on me. It's
[11:58] more like, hmm, is this possibly a
[12:02] an aspect or a part of relative truth
[12:04] that I need to pay attention to because
[12:05] it affects me, right? It can affect me
[12:07] in a positive way when we do
[12:09] constructive actions, and it can affect
[12:11] us in a negative way when we do
[12:13] destructive or harmful actions.
[12:15] So, usually the teachings on karma in
[12:17] Buddhism start there. They start with
[12:18] teaching what are what is what is
[12:20] constructive, what is beneficial, and
[12:21] what is
[12:22] destructive, and what is going to cause
[12:24] harm.
[12:25] And mainly because then it teaches we
[12:27] have to experience the repercussions of
[12:30] the harm. And also equally we experience
[12:32] the repercussions of the beneficial
[12:34] actions.
[12:35] But ultimately in Buddhism, the point is
[12:38] to end karma. So, I want to be really
[12:40] clear with that because it's incredibly
[12:43] it's it's it's good and bad news. The
[12:45] bad news is um supposedly we are bound
[12:48] by karma as a subtler form of cause and
[12:51] effect. Um but the good news is we can
[12:53] eliminate it. It it gets eliminated as
[12:55] we attain liberation and enlightenment.
[12:57] And that's one of the purposes of
[12:58] attaining enlightenment is to unbind
[13:00] ourselves from the causes of suffering.
[13:02] That is the main purpose. And then of
[13:03] course to benefit others.
[13:05] So, I want to start with that just to
[13:07] sort of remedy some misunderstanding
[13:08] that can happen.
[13:10] Then of course when we're deepening our
[13:12] uh relationship to karma, cause and
[13:14] effect in meditation, which we're about
[13:15] to do in a moment, uh there's many ways
[13:18] to do this. There's many uh approaches.
[13:20] As I said, they usually start with just
[13:23] a deeper recognition of
[13:25] understanding what causes harm and then
[13:28] attempting to avoid that, and then what
[13:29] causes uh benefit, and attempting to
[13:32] adopt that. Basically, removing the
[13:34] causes of suffering, adopting the causes
[13:36] of
[13:37] happiness.
[13:39] But, um
[13:41] I'm going to try something slightly
[13:42] different today, which is an approach to
[13:45] just deepening our understanding of
[13:47] cause and effect, uh um embodying it,
[13:50] recognizing it, and then possibly
[13:53] inferring
[13:55] uh that there is this even deeper layer
[13:57] of cause and effect in the mind, which
[14:00] we call karma.
[14:01] So, with that said, we'll go ahead and
[14:03] do this. Uh one last caveat, this is not
[14:06] I'm not really particularly interested
[14:07] in brainwashing you, or or like asking
[14:10] you to believe something. This is more a
[14:12] a deep reflection into how things might
[14:16] be, right? And of course, when we look
[14:18] at the Buddhist teachings as a form of
[14:20] compassion, as you know, similar to a
[14:22] doctor that's pointing out um an illness
[14:25] that's causing us suffering,
[14:27] uh it starts to open up sort of the why
[14:30] around why we would want to do something
[14:32] like this, right? And it becomes one of
[14:33] the four thoughts, because it totally
[14:35] opens up our perception of what is
[14:37] actually causing suffering. We could
[14:39] start to see the underlying causes of
[14:41] the illness of samsara, right? So,
[14:43] that's really the main point here. Uh
[14:45] it's not for you to believe this as a
[14:47] sort of philosophical idea. That's nice
[14:50] and all, but it has very little impact
[14:52] on what we do.
[14:53] But, when when when we infer something
[14:55] through logical reasoning, and we can't
[14:56] unsee that,
[14:58] and really can start to change our
[14:59] actions and remove the causes of
[15:01] suffering, right?
[15:03] So, with that said, go ahead and find a
[15:04] posture that's relaxed yet alert. That's
[15:07] with a spine that's loosely straight.
[15:08] You can close your eyes, you can open
[15:10] them halfway, fully open, whatever you
[15:12] like. We'll just take a moment as we did
[15:15] in the previous meditations,
[15:17] just to connect to clear undistracted
[15:19] nowness, otherwise known as shamatha
[15:21] meditation.
[15:23] Just bearing witness to the breath, if
[15:25] you like, as an anchor, or an object
[15:27] place the mind on.
[15:29] Or, if you prefer open awareness,
[15:32] just resting in the continuity of that
[15:34] mind, knowing
[15:36] and aware,
[15:37] and mostly
[15:40] aware of this present moment. Everything
[15:43] arising, falling within the present
[15:45] moment.
[15:46] And when we get distracted, which we
[15:48] normally do, bringing the attention back
[15:50] to the present moment or the breath.
[15:54] So, we'll just do this for a minute or
[15:56] so together.
[16:34] So, when we settle the mind,
[16:37] we start to prepare the mind for then
[16:40] doing this deeper chigong, chokong work
[16:44] of moving between investigation
[16:47] and resting the mind in what's been
[16:49] churned up in the insights that we see,
[16:51] the new insights.
[16:54] With that said, we'll just gently start
[16:56] to move the mind of investigation
[16:59] towards cause and effect.
[17:01] First starting with what we know,
[17:04] but deepening it into less of a concept
[17:07] and more
[17:10] of an insight.
[17:12] And this is that
[17:16] things, phenomena, from trees to
[17:21] cars
[17:22] to AI,
[17:25] to computers.
[17:26] They all run or function on cause and
[17:28] effect. Basically,
[17:31] we reflect, is there anything outside of
[17:33] cause and effect? Meaning, can something
[17:35] exist
[17:37] and not be caused?
[17:40] So, we could just take something simple.
[17:44] So, we can take an apple tree. So, an
[17:46] apple tree is the result,
[17:50] right? It's the effect of an apple seed.
[17:53] It's also the effect of
[17:55] wind, rain, sun,
[17:58] soil. So, there's all these
[18:02] interdependent factors, these
[18:03] interdependent causes
[18:05] that allow an apple tree to appear and
[18:07] eventually apples to come.
[18:11] Just reflect on that for a moment, just
[18:13] gently moving the mind, investigating
[18:15] that. And in some way, this can sound a
[18:18] bit ridiculous cuz it's like, of course
[18:20] an apple tree comes from a seed, but
[18:21] that's not the point. The of course is
[18:23] the conceptual idea. Now, we're going a
[18:25] little bit deeper. So, just pretend you
[18:27] don't know that.
[18:29] And just move the mind through that
[18:31] process of cause and effect, of seed,
[18:34] soil, water, rain,
[18:38] other factors, tree, apple.
[18:57] And there's some sense of
[19:00] conviction that starts to happen in
[19:02] cause and effect. That's a deeper
[19:03] conviction than
[19:06] purely conceptual understanding.
[19:09] Again, I'm not saying that will happen
[19:10] for you right now, but when it does, we
[19:12] can just place the mind there. So, then
[19:14] we can enter jokom again, just resting
[19:16] the mind on the insight or
[19:20] the light bulb of that experience.
[19:24] Which is
[19:25] not completely non-conceptual, but it's
[19:27] less conceptual than just sort of
[19:30] a thought. So, here as you can see,
[19:31] we're using thinking investigation
[19:34] to actually produce insight.
[19:41] But, we can continue also just
[19:42] investigating different kinds of cause
[19:44] and effect in the world.
[19:46] This can be also an ongoing reflection.
[19:48] It's not something we have to end here,
[19:50] meaning this larger question, is there
[19:52] anything outside the scope of cause and
[19:54] effect, meaning
[19:55] are there things that are caused
[19:56] randomly?
[20:00] Are there things that are caused by some
[20:01] sort of other process or energy or
[20:03] being?
[20:05] These are big questions that we can
[20:06] reflect on. We can bring logical
[20:09] reasoning and analysis to.
[20:12] But, just for now, just taking whatever
[20:14] comes to mind, different imagery of
[20:16] different things, products in the world.
[20:24] Just noticing the cause and effect
[20:25] relationship.
[20:29] We're just talking the physical world,
[20:30] the material world at this point.
[20:51] And when more conviction is coming in
[20:53] cause and effect, we just rest there.
[20:57] If conviction isn't coming, if doubt's
[20:59] coming, we have to continue the
[21:01] investigation. We can use logical
[21:03] reasoning. So, what's the proof that
[21:05] something isn't caused?
[21:07] You go through that process.
[21:16] But for now,
[21:18] we'll start to reflect on mind, and this
[21:19] is where karma sits. Karma's not a
[21:22] physical thing in the same sense as a
[21:24] physical object,
[21:28] but it's a relationship.
[21:29] It's a cause and it's a cause and effect
[21:31] relationship within the mind.
[21:34] The actions of our body, speech, and
[21:36] mind imprint
[21:38] within the consciousness.
[21:43] Now, this is what we call
[21:45] extremely subtle
[21:48] phenomena, or extremely subtle cause and
[21:50] effect.
[21:51] So, it's not meant to be seen directly.
[21:54] Suppose the Buddha and Bodhisattvas can
[21:56] see it, but unless we've attained that
[21:58] state of realization of non-duality,
[22:02] it's pretty much not not going to be
[22:05] seen. But we can infer it, right? So, if
[22:07] the material world
[22:09] functions on cause and effect,
[22:12] why wouldn't the mind function on cause
[22:14] and effect, too? We can see that. We can
[22:16] see when we cultivate certain states of
[22:18] mind, when we
[22:20] cultivate constructive emotions,
[22:22] constructive thoughts, we experience
[22:24] more constructive results. If we
[22:27] nurture destructive emotions like anger,
[22:30] we have more anger. That's not yet
[22:32] karma, but we can see
[22:34] that happening in the mind.
[22:37] Now, karma itself
[22:39] refers to both the action
[22:44] imprinting in the mind,
[22:45] and then of course,
[22:47] all the subtler kinds of cause and
[22:49] effect
[22:51] as we continue to live and the
[22:52] conditions that meet the body, speech,
[22:55] and mind.
[23:00] Let's see if you can start to at least
[23:02] acknowledge
[23:04] why would there be some other system
[23:07] for the results of phenomena? Wouldn't
[23:08] the mind also have a system? Wouldn't
[23:11] there also be a relative
[23:14] kind of worldly function
[23:18] of cause and effect?
[23:21] And therefore
[23:23] what we do matters and it will have a
[23:25] fact have an effect. It does It doesn't
[23:27] just end up nowhere.
[23:29] It doesn't just disappear.
[23:31] Of course there's different kinds of
[23:32] karma and different weights of karma.
[23:35] Karma has to meet with a condition to
[23:36] ripen, right? So if we're
[23:40] going to experience extreme cold, we
[23:42] have to meet with the condition of a
[23:44] cold place
[23:46] or some sort of cause and effect
[23:48] bringing that about.
[23:53] But for now we don't have to break our
[23:54] brains.
[23:56] Just allowing things to slowly
[23:58] churn and then resting the mind.
[24:03] Back with the breath, back with sense of
[24:05] nowness.
[24:09] Or resting on
[24:12] what's been churned, what's been
[24:14] produced from investigation or what's
[24:18] been revealed by pulling things apart a
[24:20] little bit.
[24:39] Okay.
[24:42] So that's just a very short um
[24:45] meditation and introduction into how we
[24:47] can meditate on karma cause and effect.
[24:48] As I already said there's lots of ways
[24:50] to meditate on this. I think for some of
[24:53] us um in the modern world we just have
[24:56] have to actually um
[24:58] first infer that there is subtle and
[25:01] extremely subtle kinds of cause and
[25:02] effect and therefore karma's possible.
[25:05] And so we can start to understand the
[25:07] nature of it.
[25:08] As I said previously,
[25:10] this is not for just sort of blindly
[25:12] believing or brainwashing ourselves.
[25:15] You can kind of see in the meditation
[25:17] itself, there's a there's actually room
[25:18] for doubt to arise, but we have to have
[25:21] some kind of reasoning why that doubt is
[25:23] true. So, what we're actually doing is
[25:26] keeping the mind very open to both our
[25:29] our own current understanding and
[25:31] possible bias and open to the Dharma and
[25:34] the teachings on karma cause and effect.
[25:36] So, it's not like we're we're having a
[25:38] bias towards either one or preferencing
[25:40] either one. We're just using reasoning
[25:43] to see what is happening here. What's
[25:46] most likely
[25:48] so that we can be more skillful in our
[25:49] actions when we understand karma and
[25:52] embody it when we accept it as a part of
[25:56] the the nature of the world or the
[25:57] science of
[26:00] the universe, we can respect it, right?
[26:02] And we can start to cultivate more
[26:05] beneficial actions and reduce and then
[26:08] eventually abandon harmful actions,
[26:10] right?
[26:12] So, with that said, I appreciate you a
[26:13] lot for for joining me for this and
[26:15] practicing with me.
[26:17] In the final episode of this mini series
[26:20] on the four thoughts that turn the mind,
[26:22] we'll reflect on the defects of samsara.
[26:24] I find that particular thought to be
[26:27] incredibly beneficial for my daily life,
[26:30] especially because I find dukkha to be a
[26:33] major doorway into compassion into
[26:35] wisdom.
[26:36] So, we'll explore that next time.
[26:38] Until then, I'm wishing you the best in
[26:40] your practice and see you soon. Thanks
[26:42] so much.