Transcript
[0:05] So, we get into the Land Rover and we go
[0:07] to see Maharaji and I'm just approaching
[0:09] him. I'm about
[0:11] oh 5 yards away and he yells at me,
[0:15] "Got a question."
[0:18] Well, I take one look at him and I don't
[0:20] have any questions. I just want to fall
[0:22] out and touch his feet.
[0:25] You dig that? It's like [laughter]
[0:28] >> I mean the thought of touching his feet
[0:29] is too much. It's like touching the sun
[0:32] and I just feel all warm and loving and
[0:35] who has questions? I mean what a drag
[0:37] their questions.
[0:43] >> Welcome to Here and Now with Rahm Doss.
[0:46] This is episode 33
[0:50] touching the sun. So this is an early
[0:53] one. It's 1969 and it's at the Eselin
[0:57] Institute in California. And just two
[1:00] years earlier, Ramdas had this powerful
[1:05] LSD journey. And that method of
[1:08] psychedelics, it had gotten him
[1:10] someplace so real, but he wanted to know
[1:13] how to live it, how to integrate it, how
[1:16] to bring it into his life. So he did
[1:19] what you do when you don't know what to
[1:21] do. He hit the road. He went to India.
[1:26] And this lecture is the story of that
[1:29] first trip. It's the sacred caves, the
[1:32] holy men, and this growing sense that
[1:36] maybe he's not going to find the person
[1:38] that can teach him. And then just as the
[1:42] disappointment is setting in, he meets a
[1:45] young westerner and it is a decision
[1:48] that changes everything. It changes his
[1:51] life. and you might even argue changes a
[1:54] culture. This is the origin story. And
[1:58] if it resonates with you, then we invite
[2:01] you to join us in our upcoming legacy
[2:06] immersion. It's four weeks of sitting
[2:09] around a fire and hearing all of the old
[2:12] stories of how people's hearts and minds
[2:15] got blown and then what they did after.
[2:18] It starts September 28th.
[2:21] It's completely free. So come sit around
[2:24] the fire with us. Go to romdos.org/fire
[2:28] to learn more. Ramdas.org/fire.
[2:33] And with that, [music] here is Ramdos
[2:35] here and now.
[2:44] >> [music]
[2:45] >> This is Ramdas
[2:47] and the show is called Here and Now
[2:50] [music] with Ramdas.
[2:57] [music]
[2:59] Well, by 1967,
[3:01] I appreciated the fact that I didn't
[3:04] know enough to stay high with this
[3:07] method.
[3:09] And I looked about me at all my
[3:11] colleagues and I realized that they did
[3:13] not know enough either.
[3:19] And I started to experience considerable
[3:21] despair. I mean this is the second round
[3:23] now when I end up the chapter saying we
[3:26] don't know.
[3:28] We don't know. We don't know enough.
[3:30] We've touched it but we don't know.
[3:35] And I had more LSD but what was I going
[3:37] to do? I tried programming sessions. I
[3:39] take huge doses standing in the ocean in
[3:42] the middle of the night to deal with the
[3:43] forces of jungles and ocean.
[3:46] I'd take I mean I'd take a standing in
[3:49] my head. I didn't care. Whatever. I'd
[3:51] program this and I'd have tapes and
[3:53] slide and you know I'd go through a
[3:56] session to understand my sexual things
[3:58] with women.
[4:01] I was coming out of a long sexual
[4:03] hang-up period of all kinds of
[4:05] perversity. And I'd have big slides of
[4:08] the Mona Lisa and Venus on the half
[4:10] shell and you know all of my women in my
[4:14] life and I'd shine these slides on with
[4:16] thousands of micrograms of acid and I go
[4:18] into their pores and I would Oh wow.
[4:29] And there were horrible sessions and
[4:31] beautiful sessions. And there were
[4:33] 10,000 horrible demons and 10,000
[4:35] beautiful demons. And I was trying to
[4:37] embrace every one of them.
[4:39] And I felt I was getting very old and
[4:41] wise, but not old and wise enough fast
[4:44] enough.
[4:45] And I saw that I was in some kind of an
[4:48] asmtoic curve that no matter how hard I
[4:50] got, I wasn't going to get there. At
[4:52] least I wasn't. I didn't know about
[4:54] anybody else, but something in me said,
[4:56] "This isn't going to be enough."
[4:59] Now um
[5:03] what do you do at that point? See, um,
[5:06] one of the things to do is go to the
[5:07] east,
[5:09] but the problem was that a lot of my
[5:11] friends had gone to the east and I had
[5:13] read a lot of the eastern books
[5:16] and it just I read them, I talked from
[5:20] them, I lectured from them, I quoted
[5:22] from them,
[5:24] but it was like,
[5:28] well, the fact of the matter is, you've
[5:29] got to understand there are no secrets
[5:31] at all.
[5:33] The only secrets are in the eyes of the
[5:35] perceiver. It's all available. I mean, I
[5:38] read the same books I'm reading now, and
[5:40] I now realize I didn't understand a word
[5:42] of them.
[5:44] And I was lecturing from I can imagine
[5:46] what's going to be like 5 years from
[5:47] now.
[5:54] And my friends came back from India and
[5:56] they still seemed to be the same guys
[5:57] that went to India.
[6:01] And they said, "We met a lot of pundits,
[6:03] a lot of good men,
[6:06] but nothing really that, you know,
[6:08] didn't happen."
[6:12] So, I didn't really expect that was
[6:13] going to do much for me.
[6:16] But I didn't have much else to do. And
[6:17] along came a a very interesting guy who
[6:20] I had turned on a few years previously.
[6:26] He went to um
[6:29] University of Chicago at about 14 and a
[6:31] half and he got his international law
[6:33] degree around 21 and he was teaching at
[6:35] the UN
[6:37] around 24 and he was like uh
[6:41] started his own company when he was 27
[6:44] and he sold it to Xerox and became an
[6:46] executive when he was 34 and then at 35
[6:49] he took his $5 million and retired to
[6:51] become a Buddhist.
[6:55] and he was now ready to go to the east.
[6:58] So he had a Land Rover shipped into
[7:00] Tehran
[7:03] from England, a Land Rover camper with
[7:05] all kinds of bottled water and special
[7:07] canned goods and mattresses upstairs.
[7:11] And
[7:12] we set out on our western journey to the
[7:15] east to look for holy men.
[7:20] Well, it's hard to find holy men in the
[7:22] inside of a Land Rover,
[7:25] but it was sure nice in there. There was
[7:28] sort of like a thick haze of um hashish
[7:32] smoke
[7:34] out of which one saw the passing masses
[7:37] of India
[7:43] and we had tapes of Valdi's
[7:47] you know
[7:50] guitar and
[7:52] loot from
[7:57] Ohhead Indian music too. Of course,
[8:00] those times when we would do our Indian
[8:02] thing
[8:05] and we did all the things, you know, I
[8:07] mean like we got to Kashmir and we
[8:09] besides we stayed at Lake Dal in a boat
[8:12] and did water skiing but besides that we
[8:15] went on a holy man pilgrimage to
[8:16] Armenath cave which is a very very high
[8:19] cave a cave from the last yuga actually
[8:22] and we went up with uh all the holy men
[8:25] go barefoot. It's up over the ice caps.
[8:28] It's way way up. It's about a three-day
[8:30] walk.
[8:32] And we went with um
[8:36] six saddle ponies and two chicks from
[8:39] Berkeley
[8:41] and a bottle of brandy and a chef.
[8:48] And uh when we'd meet holy men, we'd get
[8:50] down off of our things and we'd have a
[8:53] pipe with them and exchanged
[8:56] namaste.
[8:59] And we got to Arnath Cave and it was
[9:01] raining and I looked at it and it was
[9:02] like a big cave.
[9:06] It was interesting cuz there was an ice
[9:08] lingum in there, a fallus that is made
[9:11] of ice that as the moon changes its
[9:13] course each month, the lingum grows to a
[9:15] huge height and then it melts down
[9:17] again.
[9:19] That's pretty turny. But we got there
[9:20] and the lingum was very uh
[9:30] and we went to have the darian of the
[9:31] Daly Lama Darmsa and it was very
[9:34] pleasant.
[9:40] But if uh my teacher later told me, he
[9:43] said a great thing. He said um a
[9:46] pickpocket meets a pickpocket meets a
[9:48] saint. He sees only his pockets.
[9:59] >> I wouldn't have known a holy man if I
[10:01] tripped over him.
[10:03] He came up with a sign saying I am a
[10:05] holy man. I guess I would have listened,
[10:06] you know. They they all spoke some other
[10:08] language anyway, you know. And our
[10:11] interpreters didn't really believe there
[10:13] were holy men around anyway. Really,
[10:15] they did and they didn't. I mean, for
[10:17] our purposes, they did and they didn't.
[10:19] It was a very funny place. Very funny
[10:22] place.
[10:25] Very funny.
[10:27] It was beautiful. I mean, it was a very
[10:29] as as as
[10:32] tours go, it was a beautiful tour. I
[10:34] mean, you know, it was groovy. I took
[10:36] 1,300 slides
[10:39] and I have many tapes of beautiful
[10:42] music.
[10:43] Here's some street singers playing. We'd
[10:45] stop and I'd take out my tape recorder
[10:47] and that would blow all their minds and
[10:49] I'd bring it up and they'd play for me
[10:51] and I'd play it back for them and I I'd
[10:54] take pictures and then I'd take pictures
[10:55] of my Polaroid land camera and give them
[10:57] a picture. It was a strictly western,
[10:59] you know, I was doing my western
[11:08] went to the burning gods because Alan
[11:10] Ginsburg said don't miss the burning
[11:11] gods
[11:13] Bernaris
[11:15] and I took LSD in Bonaris and I really
[11:19] scared myself
[11:21] because I suddenly was looking into the
[11:23] eyes of all these people who are just
[11:25] waiting to die in high states of ecstasy
[11:29] and they're really here
[11:32] and I realized I wasn't n't that much
[11:33] here. I still had my travelers checked,
[11:38] you know, and I still had my image of
[11:41] myself as somebody on a trip,
[11:44] right?
[11:45] And I got uptight. It was a little too
[11:47] much for me. So, I went and hid in the
[11:49] hotel.
[11:55] And then I got went out later when the
[11:57] um after I got into another stage of
[11:59] this trip and I went and stood in the
[12:01] middle of the burning guy where they
[12:02] were burning the bodies
[12:04] and uh
[12:10] it was much.
[12:16] So I'm not saying that nothing had
[12:18] happened during those first months of
[12:20] travel, but that was all in a way
[12:22] preparation.
[12:23] And I had this little bottle of LSD, you
[12:25] see, and every time I'd meet a quote
[12:27] holy man, I'd give him some LSD
[12:30] and I'd say, uh, we'd get talking
[12:33] through an interpreter often. I'd say,
[12:34] "Would you try this
[12:37] and let me know what it's like?"
[12:39] And they would give me reactions back
[12:41] that were very much like the ones I got
[12:43] in the West. One guy would say, "It gave
[12:45] me a headache."
[12:47] Another one would say, "Um,
[12:50] it's not as good as meditation." Another
[12:53] one would say uh wow man where can I get
[12:55] some more.
[12:58] Finally I arrived um at um Kmandu Nepal
[13:07] and I was getting into deep despair
[13:10] because there was really nothing much
[13:12] else to do. I had just done my Indian
[13:15] trip.
[13:17] We were now planning to go on to Japan,
[13:19] leave the Land Rover,
[13:22] and nothing had happened.
[13:27] And the despair was very, very, very
[13:30] deep.
[13:34] One thing I really wanted was a mala.
[13:36] This is a mala, holy beads.
[13:39] And one day I was sitting in a hippie
[13:41] restaurant and a a Tibetan llama came in
[13:43] and he said uh he was selling his his
[13:45] mala which was very far out cuz they're
[13:48] so the Tibetans are so hard up
[13:50] financially.
[13:51] They are really they need money so badly
[13:55] that he even had to sell his mala for
[13:59] for the team.
[14:03] And I um
[14:07] I asked how much he wanted for it and he
[14:09] said he wanted um whatever I wanted to
[14:12] give. So I said I wanted to give 30
[14:13] rupees
[14:15] which was about $45 and he said that was
[14:18] too much. He only wanted 15 rupees but I
[14:21] said he said I could give whatever I
[14:22] wanted and I insisted on giving 30
[14:24] rupees. So that's that Jewish trait in
[14:28] me of you know if you buy it really it's
[14:30] like okay because I knew you really
[14:33] aren't supposed to buy malas it's
[14:35] supposed to be bestowed upon you
[14:38] and then I had this mala
[14:41] and I really dug it see I mean I was
[14:43] really a holy man I had this mala
[14:48] much later when I was uh on another part
[14:50] of the journey I'll tell you about in a
[14:51] moment I was sitting in a tea stand at
[14:54] sarnet
[14:55] And now I was really using the Mer. See,
[14:57] and the mer was a beautiful mala. And it
[14:59] had a dorgy and a
[15:02] ga, a bell and a thunder lightning bolt
[15:05] on it. And it was a beautiful, beautiful
[15:08] mala. And an old Tibetan llama came into
[15:11] the tea stand and we said, "Come sit
[15:13] down." And he sat down. He looked at me
[15:14] and he says, "Um, mala."
[15:19] Said, "Yeah." He said, "Uh, Tibeti
[15:22] mala."
[15:24] Yeah, let me see. Gave it to him. He
[15:27] says,
[15:29] "Lama mala."
[15:32] Yeah, I was very pleased. I mean, it
[15:35] meant I had really gotten the the real
[15:36] thing. I mean, it's like [laughter] I
[15:38] hadn't gotten just a phony. He wasn't a
[15:40] phony llama selling. He didn't have
[15:42] thousands of them outside selling.
[15:46] He says, he looks at me, he says,
[15:48] [clears throat] "You know llama."
[15:52] I said, "No,
[15:56] I llama I keep."
[16:05] So I got a pipe
[16:09] and I held up my hand and he put it back
[16:11] in my hand and I looked at my friend who
[16:14] was had been in India for many years for
[16:16] some guidance and he was looking away.
[16:18] He was going to have anything to do with
[16:19] it.
[16:21] And I sweated this one out and I
[16:23] thought, how can I keep it?
[16:26] I mean, what are possessions and so on?
[16:28] But I really want it.
[16:32] Well, he must be teaching me something.
[16:34] He was sent to teach me something. Okay.
[16:36] And I gave it to him and he thanked me
[16:38] and got up and split. And I hated him.
[16:39] Oh, did I?
[16:48] My friend turned to me and said, "You
[16:49] didn't have to do that. He hustles
[16:50] everybody. [laughter]
[17:02] >> Now we're back in Nepal and I'm sitting
[17:05] with my friend in the Blue Tibetan
[17:08] restaurant
[17:09] which is a hippie hangout
[17:12] sitting with some French hippies.
[17:15] And in walks this guy and he's about 6'7
[17:18] and he's got blonde long blonde hair and
[17:20] a long blonde beard and he's barefoot
[17:22] and he's wearing white cloth. And the
[17:26] only thing that's noticeable about him
[17:28] is that he's very tall, 6'7
[17:30] and he's a westerner. And he comes over
[17:32] and he sits down at our table
[17:38] and within about 2 minutes we sense this
[17:41] guy is very very special.
[17:44] The quality I can describe in him is he
[17:47] knows.
[17:49] Everybody else you meet, you look into
[17:51] their eyes like, "Do you know?"
[17:54] Well, I I practically know. Do you know?
[17:57] And everybody's always got that little
[17:59] questioning thing, you know? You know,
[18:04] but he didn't. There wasn't any of that.
[18:06] He was like a rock, boy. He just he was
[18:08] emitting something, but he knew. And
[18:11] boy, that was the closest I'd ever
[18:12] gotten to something that knew.
[18:15] And so we took him back and snuck him up
[18:17] to our hotel suite,
[18:20] which was hard because it was the king's
[18:21] hotel and very fancy. And they didn't
[18:23] even let the dorman go barefoot. So they
[18:25] weren't going to let the guests go
[18:26] barefoot. We got him up and we had a
[18:28] 5-day seminar
[18:31] in the room on uh hot baths and peach
[18:35] Melba and Hashish and Meascalin and
[18:40] Alexander David Neil and
[18:44] Arthur Avdon
[18:46] and so on.
[18:48] The end of five days I was aware that
[18:50] this guy knew.
[18:56] Now, what was I going to do about this?
[18:57] Because my friend was going on to Japan
[18:59] and I was planning to go with him and
[19:01] that was my first class ticket.
[19:05] And this guy had no bread and he was
[19:07] going back into India on a holy man
[19:09] pilgrimage.
[19:16] And he had been teaching me some mantra.
[19:20] And then one night I was lying in my
[19:22] room and I had a vision of my mother's
[19:26] face. I had never had a vision before
[19:28] when I wasn't under some chemical and I
[19:30] wasn't at that moment that particular
[19:32] day I wasn't.
[19:34] And she had an interesting expression.
[19:36] She had died the previous uh January.
[19:39] She had a pre an interesting expression
[19:41] on her face. It was a an expression she
[19:43] used to get when that in her which was
[19:45] the middle class woman from Boston was
[19:49] disapproving
[19:51] but there was an element in her which
[19:53] was saying go baby go
[19:56] and it was a like a peeved pleased look
[20:01] well I thought that must be a sign of
[20:03] something
[20:05] and then everything felt like I think
[20:07] I'll stay with this guy so I left with
[20:09] him and pretty soon I found myself
[20:10] walking barefoot foot on a temple
[20:13] pilgrimage
[20:16] and you'd walk along the street and
[20:18] people I was now barefoot with white
[20:20] cloth and I was like in my head I was an
[20:22] explorer but people would run out of
[20:24] their stores and touch my feet and say
[20:26] hey Baba Ga and they would come in and
[20:29] have some food and free and and I felt
[20:32] like a complete phony phony holy man
[20:38] and when they touched my feet I wanted
[20:40] to touch their feet and my friend said
[20:42] you don't when you're in the holy man
[20:43] role you don't touch their feet you
[20:45] honor them as if you were touching their
[20:46] feet in your heart and you're exchanging
[20:49] blessing
[20:51] pron okay and he started to teach me in
[20:55] this most interesting way I'd say to him
[20:57] say did I ever tell you about the time
[21:01] Tim and I were flying up and he'd say
[21:04] don't think about the past
[21:08] just be here now.
[21:13] Okay.
[21:15] Hey, how long do you think we're going
[21:16] to be on this trip?
[21:20] Don't think about the future.
[21:23] Just be here now.
[21:26] If you can truly be here now,
[21:31] when the future is now,
[21:34] you will have optimum awareness and
[21:37] optimum energy. and you will do the
[21:39] appropriate thing.
[21:44] Gee, my body really feels crummy.
[21:48] Emotions are like waves. Watch them
[21:51] disappear into the distance on the vast
[21:54] calm ocean.
[21:59] So, he had literally taken away
[22:01] everything I talk about.
[22:04] my thing.
[22:06] Nothing to do but be quiet.
[22:10] So we were quiet and we sang holy songs.
[22:12] He wasn't the least bit interested in
[22:13] who in my life, my fascinating life. He
[22:16] wasn't interested.
[22:18] And at the same time as he was
[22:19] completely putting me down, saying,
[22:22] "Baby, your life doesn't interest me."
[22:25] He was being present so immediately and
[22:28] intensely that I had never felt
[22:30] anybody's presence so much.
[22:35] And I would do this take like what's
[22:37] going on here? You're following, you
[22:39] come to India to find a holy man. You're
[22:40] following a 23-y old guy from Laguna
[22:42] Beach.
[22:45] Pretty far out.
[22:48] But on we went
[22:52] and there were some thousands of
[22:54] fascinating little moments along the
[22:56] way.
[22:58] We stayed in Buddhist Chinese Buddhist
[23:01] temples and everywhere we'd go they'd
[23:03] welcome him as if he was one of theirs.
[23:05] It was a very far out scene. If you'd go
[23:07] to see the Terravadan Buddhists, they'd
[23:10] uh immediately he'd be talking their
[23:12] chants and their prayers and they'd all
[23:14] treat him like he was an initiate. And
[23:16] then you'd go see a Shaite sect and
[23:18] they'd all be welcoming him as if he was
[23:20] an initiate. And you go to the
[23:21] Vashnavites and they'd be welcome. And
[23:23] the different Tibetan sects, Buddhist
[23:24] sects, and everybody treated him like he
[23:26] was one of theirs.
[23:30] Finally, after about a few months, I had
[23:32] a visa problem and I had to go and get
[23:34] my visa extended and I did that and then
[23:36] he had his annual visa to be worked out
[23:38] and we went to a village
[23:40] on the planes where his papers were. And
[23:43] we were staying with some people who
[23:45] again welcomed him, some very wealthy
[23:47] people who welcomed him and put us in
[23:49] the holy man house on their property.
[23:52] And he would say to me, "Sit here." And
[23:54] I'd sit here. He'd say, "Eat this." And
[23:56] I'd eat it. He'd say, "Sleep here." And
[23:57] I'd sleep there cuz he knew and I
[24:00] didn't. I was like a child, a baby. My
[24:04] bones ache and I had terrible dysentery
[24:07] cuz I no longer had bottled water and,
[24:09] you know, all that kind of stuff. And
[24:12] he'd say, "That's good. You'll develop
[24:13] the bacteria. Just, you know, fast for a
[24:16] few days."
[24:18] No pity, but much compassion.
[24:25] and he went off to see about his papers.
[24:29] And during the night, I had to go to the
[24:30] bathroom. And I went outside under the
[24:32] stars. And while I was out under the
[24:34] stars,
[24:37] I started to think about
[24:41] my mother again.
[24:47] Not that she had died. She had died in
[24:49] the previous January of spleen at the
[24:51] Peterbent Bighgam Hospital in Boston.
[24:56] I hadn't thought about her death, but
[24:57] when I was this close to the universe, I
[24:59] just felt presence. I had never missed
[25:01] her because I had been with her through
[25:02] her death and it had been a very
[25:03] conscious dying.
[25:05] Very conscious dying. And I never felt
[25:08] lost at all because I dug that what
[25:10] mother and I had going didn't die that
[25:12] way.
[25:14] And then I went back to bed and I said
[25:16] nothing about this. That was my trip.
[25:18] You know, he wasn't interested in my
[25:19] life anyway. And the next day he said,
[25:20] "We must go to the mountains to see my
[25:22] guru." and he had never even mentioned
[25:23] having a guru. And I assumed if he did
[25:25] have one, it would be a Buddhist and he
[25:27] didn't call them gurus usually. And I
[25:29] didn't know what was going on. And he
[25:30] said, "We have to take the Land Rover."
[25:32] And I said, "Well, we're never going to
[25:34] get that cuz the fellow who has been
[25:35] left with really likes it and he's not
[25:37] going to want to give it to us." And he
[25:39] says, "Don't worry. It'll all be all
[25:40] right." And we went to see the fellow
[25:42] and with a half an hour, within a half
[25:43] an hour, the guy says, "Look, you've got
[25:44] to go to the mountains, take the Land
[25:45] Rover."
[25:49] because the fellow is a very high being
[25:51] actually very high being also
[25:57] we started for the mountains and I was
[25:59] in one of the worst moods I'd ever been
[26:01] in in India I was just coming down after
[26:05] about 3 and 1/2 months of hashish
[26:08] furthermore I didn't want to be in the
[26:09] Land Rover which was now like a horrible
[26:13] tank to me because I had already now
[26:16] been walking barefoot through all of the
[26:19] cow cow dong and pond juice and dirt
[26:22] between my toes and sleeping on the
[26:24] ground and I was really living in India
[26:26] and I was really turned on by it and
[26:28] suddenly I'm back in this thing
[26:32] and I'm thinking what am I doing here
[26:34] this kid just wants he won't even let me
[26:36] drive see
[26:43] and I dig that the car is somewhat my
[26:45] responsibility and the guy that left it
[26:47] that owned it didn't even leave it in
[26:48] for to use. Anyway, so I felt terrible
[26:51] and I was really bugged with this guy
[26:53] and thought, gee, I'm just going to go
[26:54] on this trip, whatever it is, and then
[26:55] I'm going back to America, man. I
[26:57] started having fantasies of dancing at
[26:59] the Fillmore and how groovy it was going
[27:01] to be to get back and I don't want to
[27:04] see a guru and guru hypes and what, you
[27:06] know, what the hell this
[27:09] and we go up into the Himalayas and we
[27:11] come to a little temple by the side of
[27:13] the road. We stop and I think we're just
[27:15] sort of stopping so that some trucks can
[27:17] go by and people surround the car which
[27:20] they always do in India. In India it's
[27:21] like instant crowd. The minute you stop
[27:23] there's like 200 people and they're all
[27:26] standing about 3 in from you with big
[27:28] eyes looking directly at you. And it's
[27:31] not paranoia on anybody's part except
[27:33] yours cuz they have nothing going.
[27:36] They're not coming on. They're just
[27:37] interested.
[27:39] But when you're trying to urinate or
[27:41] cook food or something, you know, it's
[27:43] just that you're you got this $7,000
[27:47] vehicle, which is like probably the most
[27:48] expensive vehicle in India,
[27:51] and it's got a peppermint striped roof.
[28:04] I can tell something's going to happen
[28:05] because this guy
[28:08] is crying all the way up into the hills.
[28:10] Tears are streaming down his face and
[28:13] he's singing holy songs the top of his
[28:15] lungs and I'm I'm over in the corner
[28:17] being bugged.
[28:19] I'm sulking.
[28:22] I'm sulking. And he gets there and he
[28:24] says um where he asked him where the
[28:27] guru is and they say um Maharaj's up on
[28:29] the hill and he goes running off up the
[28:31] hill and I'm left there and everybody's
[28:33] like looking at me and I don't know what
[28:34] to do and everybody's kind of ignoring
[28:36] me. So I go running after him and every
[28:38] you know my ego is just being pushed
[28:40] around terribly.
[28:42] I don't want to be here. Nobody's giving
[28:44] me any choice. And I'm stumbling up this
[28:46] hill behind this giant who's like
[28:48] running in big leaps crying. And I don't
[28:50] want to see a guru anyway. And you know,
[28:55] we climb a hill and we come around uh
[28:58] the top of the hill to a beautiful field
[29:02] overlooking a valley that's out of sight
[29:04] of the road. And in the middle of the
[29:07] field is this little old man sitting
[29:08] with a blanket around him. And about
[29:10] eight or nine Indians are sitting around
[29:12] him. And it's just a beautiful tableau.
[29:16] Of course, I'm too hung up to appreciate
[29:18] it, but I see it and the clouds are in
[29:20] the background and it's very beautiful.
[29:22] And I he this guy runs up and he does
[29:24] dunder prrenam. He goes out fullfaced,
[29:27] hands touching this man, this little old
[29:30] man's toes, and he's crying, and the
[29:33] man's patting his head, and I don't know
[29:35] what to do. You know what? This is all
[29:36] idiocy. And I'm standing by the corner
[29:38] saying, "Well, I'll come here, but I'm
[29:40] not going to touch his feet. I mean, I
[29:41] don't know what this is all about. And
[29:43] I'm, you know, totally paranoid. Totally
[29:46] paranoid.
[29:48] And the man's patting this guy's head.
[29:52] And then he looks up at me and then he
[29:54] pulls the guy's hair back and he says to
[29:56] him, "Have you got a picture of me?" He
[29:58] says this in Hindi and it's sort of
[30:00] partly being translated and partly I'm
[30:02] picking it up. He says, "Have you got a
[30:04] picture of me?" And through his tears,
[30:06] this guy says, "Yeah." He says, "Give it
[30:08] to him."
[30:10] Uh, gee, that's really nice. This
[30:13] little old man's going to give me a
[30:14] picture of himself.
[30:16] Pretty cool.
[30:19] That's the first ego thing I gotten in
[30:21] the whole day, you know? I mean, I
[30:23] really needed it.
[30:30] And then he says um to me looks at me
[30:33] and he says um
[30:36] you came in a big car
[30:40] now one topic you know that like I don't
[30:43] want to talk about
[30:45] and he's smiling so I said yeah
[30:49] he says um you'll give it to
[30:59] So I start to say, "Well, it's not my
[31:02] car. I" And this this idiot lying out
[31:05] full face is saying, "Maharaji, if you
[31:08] want it, it's yours." And I'm yelling,
[31:09] "You can't give him David's power. That
[31:11] isn't our car to give away."
[31:20] and he looks up at me and he says, "You
[31:23] made much money in America."
[31:29] So I figure he thinks all Americans are
[31:32] rich, you know. I said, "Yeah, I made a
[31:35] lot of money in America one time.
[31:38] How much did you make?" I said, "Well,
[31:41] one year I made $25,000."
[31:44] So they all calculated that in rupees
[31:46] and that was a sizable amount of money,
[31:48] you know.
[31:50] So he says, "Um, you will buy a car like
[31:54] that for me?"
[31:57] My thought at that moment was, I have
[31:59] never been hustled so fast in my life.
[32:02] I mean, I grew up around the Jewish
[32:04] charities.
[32:06] And we were good at it, but never this
[32:09] good. I mean, I haven't even met this
[32:11] guy, and already he's asking for $7,000
[32:13] car.
[32:15] So I said, "Well, maybe."
[32:20] And all the time he's smiling at me
[32:26] and my head's going around in circles.
[32:29] And then he says, "Take them, take them
[32:30] away, jow, jow, jow." You know, take
[32:32] them off and feed them pride food. And
[32:35] we're taken off and treated royally and
[32:38] given beautiful food and a place to
[32:40] rest. And we're together still. We're
[32:43] way up in the mountains. There's no
[32:45] telephones, no lights, no nothing. This
[32:47] is really way up in the mountains.
[32:50] And after a while, we're brought back to
[32:52] later with Maharaji. He says to me,
[32:55] "Come sit here. Sit down." He looks at
[32:58] me and he says, "Um,
[33:01] you were out under the stars last
[33:02] night."
[33:05] Yeah.
[33:09] He said, "Um,
[33:12] you were thinking about your mother.
[33:23] She died last year.
[33:26] Yeah,
[33:30] she got very big in the stomach before
[33:32] she died."
[33:35] That's right.
[33:43] spleen. She died of spleen.
[33:47] Well, when he said spleen,
[33:50] it was like he looked at me and he
[33:53] looked directly at me and two things
[33:55] happened simultaneously.
[33:57] One thing was that my rational mind,
[34:00] like a [clears throat] computer out of
[34:01] control, went through its storage units
[34:03] desperately trying to figure out how he
[34:06] could have done that.
[34:08] I mean, I went through every super CIA
[34:11] paranoia, you know, you could have.
[34:13] Like, they brought me here and this is
[34:15] part of the mind screw thing, you know,
[34:17] and they're going to
[34:23] But no matter how grandiose it got, it
[34:26] just couldn't handle this one. I mean, I
[34:28] just couldn't handle this. This just
[34:30] wasn't within the book of even my
[34:32] paranoia. And they were pretty
[34:34] grandiose.
[34:37] And see, up until then, I'd been in this
[34:39] position that when something like this
[34:41] had happened, either I had heard about
[34:44] it secondhand, in which case I said, as
[34:46] any good Harvard scientist would say,
[34:48] well, this is very interesting. We
[34:50] certainly must keep an open mind about
[34:52] these things. JB Ryan is doing some
[34:54] interesting research in this field, you
[34:55] know, or else I was high on LSD in which
[35:00] I'd say, well, how do I know that I, as
[35:02] the observer, aren't just creating the
[35:04] whole thing out of whole cloth anyway?
[35:09] Because at one point when I was taking
[35:11] psychedelics, I had taken a chemical
[35:14] called JB 318.
[35:18] And um I was sitting in the third floor
[35:21] at Milbrook and I thought, "Gee,
[35:23] nothing's happening. What a weird drug."
[35:25] And there was a guy that took it with me
[35:27] was doing cartwheels through the room.
[35:28] He keep passing through the room and the
[35:30] bathroom and back through. He was about
[35:31] a 45, 50-y old man. He was doing
[35:33] cartwheels, you know, but it seemed
[35:36] nothing was happening to me. And this
[35:38] girl came in from the community and she
[35:39] said, "Did I want a drink?" And I said,
[35:40] "That would be groovy." And she poured a
[35:42] glass of lemonade and it got to the top.
[35:45] And she kept pouring and it went over
[35:47] the side and down the floor and across
[35:49] the floor and up and across the ceiling
[35:51] and down and under and got my pants wet
[35:54] and came back up and it went into the
[35:56] glass and then the glass disappeared and
[35:58] the girl disappeared and the wet
[36:00] disappeared. And I turned to Ralph
[36:02] Mezner who was standing next to me and I
[36:04] said, "Ralph, the most remarkable thing
[36:06] happened and Ralph disappeared.
[36:20] And since I knew that such things could
[36:23] happen, you see, I took all the things
[36:26] that happened to me with psychedelics
[36:27] and put them into that special category
[36:29] of, you know, the observer is under a
[36:32] chemical influence.
[36:35] But I wasn't under a chemical influence.
[36:37] And this guy just said spleen. And how
[36:38] did he know that? Think
[36:45] the mind went faster and faster and
[36:47] finally just like a computer when it's
[36:48] met an insoluble problem the bell rings
[36:52] and the red light goes on the machine
[36:53] stops
[36:55] and my rational mind just gave up. when
[37:00] and at that same moment there was this
[37:02] violent wrenching really um
[37:07] very very painful pull in my chest
[37:11] and I started to cry.
[37:16] My
[37:17] fourth chakra was being opened
[37:21] and I cried and I cried and I cried and
[37:24] I cried and I wasn't sad and I wasn't
[37:28] happy.
[37:30] The closest I can say is I was crying
[37:32] cuz like I'm home.
[37:34] I've carried my big pile of up the hill
[37:37] and I'm it's all done. All the paranoia
[37:40] washed out of me and all of the
[37:42] everything but just just a feeling of
[37:44] fantastic love and peace and wow.
[37:50] And I cried and cried and cried and they
[37:53] took me to a temple about 12 miles away.
[37:55] And there I sat and I was kind of
[37:56] confused.
[37:58] And during the evening I was wondering
[38:00] what had happened to me. I didn't
[38:02] understand what was going on. And I was
[38:04] going through my uh shoulder bag and I
[38:08] came across this little bottle of LSD
[38:09] and I thought, "Wow,
[38:11] I always wondered what LSD was. This guy
[38:14] knows everything. He'll know. I'll ask
[38:17] him. I must remember to ask him."
[38:21] Next morning,
[38:24] 8:30
[38:26] Messenger Maharaji wants to see you.
[38:30] So Maharaji means great king. It's a
[38:32] title for realized beings.
[38:35] So we get into the Land Rover and we go
[38:37] to see Maharaji and I'm just approaching
[38:39] him. I'm about
[38:40] oh 5 yards away and he yells at me,
[38:44] "Got a question?"
[38:49] Well, I take one look at him and I don't
[38:51] have any questions. I just want to fall
[38:53] out and touch his feet.
[38:56] You dig that? It's like
[38:59] I mean the thought of touching his feet
[39:00] is too much. is like touching the sun
[39:03] and I just feel all warm and loving and
[39:05] who has questions? I mean what a drag
[39:08] question. I don't have any questions.
[39:10] No, I don't. He says where's the
[39:13] medicine? [laughter]
[39:18] Medicine?
[39:20] My friend says maybe he means the LSD. I
[39:22] said LSD. Aha, bring the LSD.
[39:25] So I go and I get the bottle of LSD and
[39:27] he he's looking. So I pour it out in my
[39:30] hand. He says, "What's that?" I said,
[39:32] "Well, that's STP." And what's that?
[39:34] Well, that's tinol and that's lirium.
[39:37] That's LSD. And
[39:40] I'm telling him about all these things,
[39:42] little, you know, your traveling pack,
[39:44] you know. And he says, um,
[39:47] says, "Gives you Sydneys."
[39:51] I have never heard the word before. And
[39:53] I said, "Sydneys?" And somebody said,
[39:56] "Powers."
[39:58] And I got the tape western head that I
[40:01] am that he is like a little old man of
[40:04] 70 and he's asking for like vitamin B12,
[40:06] you know? I mean, he's losing his
[40:08] physical strength and he wants something
[40:09] to soup him up.
[40:13] And I'm really disappointed, man. I give
[40:15] that guy anything, but what I he wants I
[40:17] don't have. I don't have any vitamin
[40:18] B12.
[40:21] Gee, I'm sorry. I pour it back into the
[40:25] thing. No, no, no. He holds out his
[40:27] hand.
[40:29] So I put on one
[40:34] lovingly call white lightning.
[40:39] Now this was a this particular batch of
[40:41] white lightning had because of the way
[40:43] the wash water was I was assured was 305
[40:46] micrograms each one of the pills instead
[40:49] of 275.
[40:52] It was very good. He looked at it.
[40:56] Come on. So I put a second on his hand.
[40:59] 610.
[41:01] He's about 70 years old. You know that's
[41:03] funny. You start a 70-y old man at a
[41:06] small dose.
[41:08] 150 under suitable condition.
[41:12] Come on. Come on. I put a third in his
[41:15] hand. That's 915 micrograms.
[41:20] Watch.
[41:23] He swallows them.
[41:25] I watch them go down
[41:28] and the scientist in me thinks, "Well,
[41:30] this is certainly going to be
[41:31] interesting
[41:42] all day. I'm around him and he keeps the
[41:44] every now and then he twinkles a bit,
[41:49] but nothing happens."
[41:52] Right? That was the answer to that
[41:54] question.
[41:56] Few days later, we were sitting there
[41:58] and he said to me, um,
[42:02] he said, "You went to Armenoth cave."
[42:05] And I got a real ego flash like, "The
[42:08] man, I've been on a holy pilgrimage and
[42:10] he's recognizing it. [clears throat]
[42:12] Wow, isn't that great?" See, and I went
[42:13] through my whole like, you know, pride.
[42:16] And he looked at me and he says, "But
[42:18] you didn't understand it."
[42:21] I said, "No.
[42:23] You will
[42:33] just few more things about him. Later, a
[42:35] few months later,
[42:37] I had to go to Delhi
[42:40] and I went by bus to Delhi and it was
[42:43] like about a 10 or 12 hour bus trip
[42:47] and I got to Delhi and I was very high
[42:49] and I was barefoot and silent. I was ma
[42:52] all the time. I was there working with a
[42:53] chalkboard and I went all around Kono
[42:55] Place doing my thing and American
[42:58] Express and BOAC and public health and
[43:01] all this stuff and I had to get some
[43:04] money for a for some tonkas that were
[43:07] being reproduced
[43:10] and around 2:00 in the afternoon
[43:16] I wanted to have a meal. I had been
[43:19] living on a very very sparse diet as
[43:21] I'll tell you about in a minute. So I
[43:23] went into this very fancy vegetarian
[43:25] restaurant and I decided to really live
[43:27] it up and I had their fanciest meal
[43:30] and I really grew behind it. I mean the
[43:33] whole business of enjoy enjoy you know
[43:35] like I was really into the food and for
[43:38] dessert I had ice cream and they brought
[43:40] on the ice cream they brought two
[43:42] biscuits and boy those were the first
[43:44] cookies I'd had and oh did I savor
[43:47] those. Oh, it's so good. [clears throat]
[43:51] Then I went to the um Ashoka mission,
[43:53] the Buddhist monastery, Terravadan
[43:55] Buddhist, and I stayed overnight and the
[43:57] next day I took the bus back up to the
[43:58] mountains and a few days later Maharaji
[44:01] who had been up in the hills further up
[44:03] came back. We heard Maharaji's in town
[44:05] and everybody went flying the Maharaji
[44:07] like bees to honey.
[44:10] And I brought him oranges. You bring uh
[44:13] you bring something to to Darian. bring
[44:17] some food.
[44:20] And I saw him. I took one look and I
[44:22] started to cry. The oranges went flying
[44:23] in all directions. And he picked up the
[44:26] oranges wildly and was eating them right
[44:28] in front of me. And he ate eight oranges
[44:30] right in front of me
[44:32] because
[44:34] if if uh if if when he eats that way,
[44:38] he's taking on like karma from the
[44:40] person. It's doing a thing. In fact, all
[44:42] day long he sits there and all these
[44:44] loving women come bringing food they've
[44:47] cooked all night. And he just sits there
[44:49] all day talking and every now and then
[44:51] he opens his mouth and she puts
[44:54] something in and she
[44:57] opens her mouth. She's like huge um
[45:01] elephant or rhinoceros that just sits
[45:03] there and you just keep feeding it. He
[45:05] must eat 15 meals a day just sitting
[45:07] there. I mean amazing. It just passes it
[45:09] all through, I guess. [laughter]
[45:12] and he ate he ate oranges and the
[45:14] principal of the school was feeding me
[45:16] oranges and I was crying. It was quite a
[45:18] melodrome.
[45:19] And then he grabbed my hair, what was
[45:21] left, and he pulled it up and he looked
[45:22] at me and he said, "Um, how'd you like
[45:24] the biscuits?"
[45:28] And then he proceeded to tell me moment
[45:30] by moment everything that had happened
[45:31] to me in Delhi. Just like he had been
[45:33] right behind me
[45:35] or in me or somewhere or other.
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