Transcript
[0:16] Good morning.
[0:26] [laughter]
[0:28] >> Nice to meet you.
[0:30] >> [laughter]
[0:55] >> expensive.
[0:58] >> Come through the bed station. my
[1:00] grandson.
[1:19] >> CCRI
[1:22] making videos.
[1:33] a lot of new things.
[1:45] >> Oh, you're doing
[1:50] pretty good. I got
[2:21] Sometimes
[2:23] >> sometimes. Yeah, I tried it. between
[2:26] working in school working as a fulltime
[2:28] teacher right now and it's just like
[2:31] trying to get this all out.
[2:35] I assume when I get my home
[2:38] regular [clears throat] schedule.
[3:03] >> So I have
[3:06] >> [clears throat]
[3:29] >> Well, solid is the company.
[3:34] after school.
[3:36] >> So,
[3:47] that's fine. I'm used to that
[3:54] [clears throat]
[3:57] right now.
[4:05] retired.
[4:06] >> Yeah.
[4:25] to interrupt your conversation.
[4:36] >> Oh, I see. Yeah. So now
[4:53] >> [laughter]
[5:00] >> We all
[5:07] know that
[5:14] [snorts and laughter]
[5:16] there was great
[5:30] only.
[5:55] >> [laughter]
[5:56] >> which is not correct.
[6:00] or at least
[6:32] >> [clears throat]
[6:46] >> All right, cool.
[6:48] >> Check. Check.
[6:53] >> Get this.
[6:55] Got to get the mic on.
[6:59] Go ahead.
[7:00] >> Hi there. Whoa.
[7:02] >> Hi.
[7:05] >> Shall I whisper?
[7:15] >> All right. Well, hello everybody. Thank
[7:18] you for joining us. Thank you for
[7:19] everybody who has appeared on Zoom. Uh
[7:22] we are now going to be all set for our
[7:25] Dharma Talks. Thank you for Chris Goden
[7:27] for agreeing to give the opening talk
[7:30] andwan hanksenine for answering
[7:32] questions. So I'd like to introduce
[7:35] Chris. Uh Chris was born and raised in
[7:37] Lincoln, Rhode Island. He began
[7:39] practicing at the Providence Zen Center
[7:41] in 2016. He took the five precepts in
[7:45] 2018 and became a dharma teacher in
[7:47] 2021.
[7:48] Chris has served in a variety of roles,
[7:51] including as a resident, as director,
[7:53] and currently as a member of the
[7:54] Providence Zen Center board of trustees.
[7:57] His practice continues to inform his
[7:59] approach to daily life, teaching, and
[8:01] community. Outside of his Zen practice,
[8:04] Christopher is an avid artist with a
[8:06] passion for creative expression, and
[8:08] education. In May 2026, he earned his
[8:11] master's of arts in teaching in art
[8:14] education from Rhode Island College. He
[8:17] now teaches three-dimensional art at
[8:19] Lincoln Middle School in his hometown of
[8:21] Lincoln, Rhode Island, where he
[8:23] encourages students to explore
[8:25] creativity, develop their skills, and
[8:27] discover their own forms of expression.
[8:31] And introducing Quanhenim, Jet Popsin
[8:34] met uh Zamas at the Cambridge Zen Center
[8:37] in 1986. He was ordained as a novice
[8:41] monk in 1999 at Chik Chesaw, South
[8:44] Korea. And in 2003 he received Biku
[8:48] precepts at Tongosa in South Korea. He
[8:51] has lived and practiced mainly at Huages
[8:53] Sa and Musangsa in Korea where he
[8:56] performed the jobs of housemaster, media
[8:58] director and headm
[9:01] received Inca in December 2020 and is
[9:04] currently abbot and co-guiding teacher
[9:05] here at the Providence Zen Center. Thank
[9:08] you all for your time. Please at the end
[9:11] uh ask the questions. As Dave always
[9:13] says, please ask your questions.
[9:14] somebody else may be thinking of it. So,
[9:16] so come to the mic and ask. Thank you.
[9:22] >> You know, it's interesting giving, you
[9:24] know, giving a bio. There's so many
[9:25] things I want to add. Uh I am also, uh
[9:30] engaged to a beautiful woman and we're
[9:32] getting married next year, um around
[9:34] this time actually. Uh so I just wanted
[9:37] to add that. Um,
[9:40] but so I was coming up with this Dharma
[9:42] talk and when I was first thinking about
[9:44] a Dharma talk, I wanted some real fancy
[9:47] schmancy like high flutin talk about
[9:50] like art and like the diamond sutra and
[9:55] situations kind of changed and my talk
[9:58] has actually completely changed from
[10:00] that and I want to talk about something
[10:01] a little bit more personal, something
[10:04] more about my everyday life. Well, I
[10:06] hopefully it doesn't happen every day,
[10:08] but I want to preface this talk. Um, and
[10:12] the preface is that when I was a kid,
[10:14] uh, I didn't have much of a father
[10:16] figure in my life. I didn't have my
[10:18] mother was working a lot and, um, I was
[10:21] about 8 years old and I met my best
[10:23] friend, uh, David and we went over to
[10:25] his house and his father like just
[10:29] he just invited me in. He was so
[10:31] gracious and he's like, "Here's some
[10:32] food. here's, you know, here's you want
[10:34] to stay over? Do you want anything? And
[10:38] he was just so welcoming. He made me
[10:39] feel like I belong there. And then, you
[10:41] know, over the years, David, you know,
[10:43] David and I became so close that we
[10:45] started calling each other cousin. And
[10:47] so Bob, so Bob, who is his father, I
[10:50] became uncle Bob. [snorts] And Uncle
[10:53] Bob, um, in many ways, uh,
[10:58] he he became this father figure type
[11:00] guy. And like even when I came to the
[11:03] house, I didn't even have to knock on
[11:04] the door. I just walked in. I was like
[11:05] full Kramer. Oh, what's up? What's going
[11:07] on? And um so I was always like part of
[11:13] that.
[11:15] Uh and he always he he was a man who
[11:19] helps his family, cares about the people
[11:21] he loves, always being generous.
[11:25] Now saying that, I'm he's not he's not
[11:28] perfect like all of us. like all of us,
[11:30] we're not perfect, you know, he's got
[11:31] his hang-ups, he's got his uh vices,
[11:34] he's got, you know, his different
[11:36] things, but he's always been like
[11:38] helpful to me in my life. Uh I actually
[11:41] kind of owe him my whole life. And when
[11:44] I became more part of the family, there
[11:46] were more relatives. There was Uncle
[11:48] David, not to be confused with cousin
[11:50] David. There's Uncle David and Aunt
[11:52] Lynn, Uncle Bob, and all these people
[11:55] that just helped me in my life. like
[11:57] even uncle David, he's considered my
[11:59] first teacher. He kind of brought me to
[12:01] this practice
[12:03] um and like influenced my life. Uh and
[12:07] so I wanted to this preface is because
[12:12] Bob had an accident while I was
[12:15] finishing my student teaching in back in
[12:18] March. Bob actually hit his head while
[12:22] trying to ride his motorcycle. He just
[12:24] the motorcycle just fell right over. He
[12:26] slid, dumped his head, and he died. He
[12:30] died and someone resuscitated him. We
[12:31] were so lucky someone resuscitated him.
[12:36] And I remember that night I was, you
[12:38] know, with my fiance and his daughter
[12:41] Sarah calls. She's crying. She's just
[12:43] absolutely
[12:44] distraught and she's like trying to get
[12:46] the words out that, you know, there was
[12:47] an accident and Bob is in the hospital.
[12:53] And I immediately was just like
[12:57] shocked. It just hit me so hard. And
[13:02] I I was calling the whole family. I was
[13:03] calling I was trying to help this and do
[13:05] this and organize that and trying to get
[13:07] everyone together and cuz that's just my
[13:11] habit. [laughter]
[13:14] But
[13:16] yeah, Bob was not doing good. And
[13:21] I remember going to the hospital a few
[13:23] days later. Um, I met with his wife,
[13:26] Sandra, and I just
[13:30] [panting]
[13:30] [sighs and gasps]
[13:38] Yeah, Bob was in I walked in and I was I
[13:40] was walking in. And I'm just conle
[13:42] bustle concept bustle con trying to like
[13:48] really steady myself and and give good
[13:51] energy to him. But when I walked in, he
[13:53] was completely unconscious. He had
[13:57] when he hit his head, he had both a
[13:59] traumatic brain injury front and back.
[14:02] He had part of his skull fractured. He
[14:05] has spinal fracture,
[14:08] broken tibia, and he was he was in rough
[14:11] shape. He was not doing good.
[14:14] Um,
[14:16] and I just I just kept chanting for him,
[14:18] and
[14:21] I kept chanting, chanting, chanting, and
[14:23] I was like, "Okay, there there's got to
[14:25] be
[14:27] I there's there's more to this." And I
[14:30] wanted to help more. And I and the
[14:32] interesting thing about chanting, if
[14:34] those who are new, chanting is a
[14:36] practice that we do to harmonize with
[14:37] ourselves and others, but also put out
[14:40] an energy into the world, you know, a
[14:43] positive energy that can help people.
[14:47] And so I thought, you know, I'm not
[14:50] alone there. We're SA. So I, you know,
[14:53] contacted the greater SA and hopefully
[14:56] and in hopes that people would chant for
[14:58] Bob.
[15:00] Um,
[15:02] and I remember
[15:05] I was there and I was just holding his
[15:06] hand, chanting, chanting, chanting and
[15:09] just hoping something would happen. He
[15:10] was just non-responsive. He was he was
[15:13] conscious like he had conscious, you
[15:16] know, everything was kind of good. Well,
[15:18] not good, but it was stable. And I
[15:21] remember holding his hand and just
[15:23] chanting conosal conosal conalle.
[15:28] And
[15:30] as we, you know, as I put out that
[15:34] chanting request the next day, you know,
[15:37] I got so many
[15:40] responses back. The SA really took care
[15:42] of the situation. I got so many emails
[15:44] from people who didn't know him, people
[15:47] who might have, you know, heard his name
[15:48] because I talk about him a lot. Um,
[15:52] people who just like had this not for me
[15:56] energy. It was like for you. This this
[15:59] going out and this energy coming out for
[16:02] Bob and
[16:06] and I I just remember I just knew like
[16:08] in my gut I knew this was the right
[16:10] thing to do. My gut I completely
[16:12] believed in just taking this path and
[16:15] doing this thing 100%. And everyone else
[16:19] would help out and everything would fall
[16:21] in line. the I had a complete just
[16:24] belief in that and it didn't waver. So
[16:28] weeks went by, weeks and weeks and weeks
[16:30] and he was, you know,
[16:33] but stable, stable, stable, and a few
[16:36] weeks go by and then all of a sudden,
[16:39] you know, his legs start to twitch, his
[16:41] arm starts to twitch, he starts doing
[16:43] this, and he's
[16:45] he's being more conscious. He he's he's
[16:48] completely on meds and he's not he's a
[16:50] little bonkers. But I remember him
[16:53] seeing me the first time and he just was
[16:56] eyes open and he was like, "Oh man, like
[16:58] you're here. You're here and and like my
[17:01] family's here. My my daughter's here. My
[17:03] wife's here. My son's here. My brother's
[17:05] here. My other my sister's here.
[17:07] Everyone's here." And
[17:11] but we [laughter]
[17:12] his wife asked him, "How are you doing?"
[17:14] And he's in his tubes. cuz he's had a
[17:16] TRA getting his tubes and all this. And
[17:18] I remember him kind of like trying to
[17:20] open the TRA and go and went, you know,
[17:22] a
[17:24] Like he had just realized he had woken
[17:26] up from a horrible accident and he had
[17:29] put everyone kind of, you know,
[17:33] on edge, you know, he made everyone
[17:34] worry about him. He was not the kind of
[17:36] person to make someone worry. He he
[17:39] helped everyone and he he just, you
[17:42] know, that's what he did. So,
[17:47] but days went after those weeks, days
[17:49] went by and things started to change
[17:53] like really changed like his fractures
[17:55] in his spine started healing. He had
[17:58] full motor control. He had hands all
[18:01] this they he tried to pull the the tra
[18:04] you know the the tubes out of his mouth
[18:07] cuz he was like I don't know what's
[18:09] going on trying to pull these tubes out
[18:10] but he had a fight in him and he started
[18:14] moving he started healing he started
[18:19] it just a miracle a a a really
[18:23] interesting miracle happened and that he
[18:26] healed he and he spent
[18:30] uh I want to say a good three months in
[18:33] the hospital just healing. But every
[18:36] every day he was like he was listening
[18:38] to music and he was talking about this,
[18:41] talking about that and he was getting
[18:43] stronger
[18:44] and
[18:48] that was a really it was a really
[18:51] powerful thing to kind of see this this
[18:53] chanting this practice
[18:56] actually change something because if
[18:59] because chanting slowly slowly can
[19:02] change things I in in one way or another
[19:05] it changes things. It it really brings
[19:08] about you know this energy that changes
[19:12] and transforms
[19:14] no matter you know what way either it
[19:16] changes and transforms you or it can
[19:18] change and transform someone else's
[19:20] life. Um,
[19:26] so yeah, about 2 or 3 months goes by and
[19:29] he's getting better and you know, he was
[19:30] in rehab
[19:35] and you know, when he was in in rehab,
[19:38] he he was in rehab for a few days and he
[19:40] just had like a leg brace and he was
[19:42] sitting up and he was moving and he
[19:46] heard he got he heard from, you know,
[19:49] his wife that I had sent out this
[19:51] chanting request and so many people
[19:52] emailed back and chanting and he even to
[19:54] this day he he wants to say to everyone
[19:56] to Zen Center like you know he's like
[19:59] thank the boys and everyone else at the
[20:01] Zen Center for praying for me you know
[20:04] he goes I wouldn't have made it out
[20:06] without this and he had he had a deep
[20:10] experience while he was out he he was
[20:12] talking to me about it he was he said um
[20:15] interesting enough that he was
[20:19] he remembered traveling ing in this
[20:22] bleak darkness.
[20:24] And from there he was looking for his
[20:27] wife. He was looking for his wife. He
[20:29] was really really
[20:31] trying to figure out what was going. He
[20:32] was so confused. And some people he said
[20:35] some people trying to bring him back and
[20:36] some people were trying to bring him
[20:38] other places and he couldn't. He just
[20:40] stayed put. He's like I've got to stay
[20:42] put until my wife appears.
[20:44] and
[20:46] you know he woke up and he said that
[20:49] there was something something
[20:52] told him to stay put and that he would
[20:54] make it through it and I don't know what
[20:57] that was but
[21:00] um it was
[21:04] it was a powerful experience for him
[21:07] and
[21:10] Bob it's interesting Bob is someone in
[21:13] my life I always go to. And if I think
[21:17] not that long ago,
[21:20] you know,
[21:22] Bob came to me
[21:25] and he said, "Now, I want to get I want
[21:27] to get this right because I don't want
[21:28] to misquote him." Um,
[21:33] he said, "Chris, I have quite a conflict
[21:35] in my mind
[21:37] on what to do with this gift I've been
[21:39] given."
[21:43] And as soon as he sent that text to me,
[21:45] uh, right immediately he sent back, "Oh,
[21:47] you remember Jesus is king." So he's a
[21:49] very Catholic man, uh, Christian man.
[21:53] And my mind kicked in immediately. Like
[21:55] this don't know mind, this this before
[21:57] thing, putting down all my opinions
[21:59] about what that meant of the text or
[22:02] what my hang-up is on that or whatever
[22:04] just was completely cut off. And I just
[22:07] went, you know, you know, man, like do
[22:11] as Jesus did. Go out and help people,
[22:13] like especially those closest to you.
[22:17] And like start with your grandchild.
[22:20] And he's he's a great grandchild. EMTT.
[22:22] EMTT's amazing. He's 5 years old. He
[22:24] calls him Grand Bob. Uh yeah, he's he's
[22:27] absolutely adorable. He's he's his
[22:29] daughter's child. And and Sarah's a
[22:32] great mother. Um,
[22:36] and I remember like that don't know
[22:39] mind.
[22:41] It's our true nature. It's it's it comes
[22:44] naturally. It's something beyond this
[22:46] whole situation of life and death. It's
[22:50] never born, never dies. It's just always
[22:53] there. But it's hard to grasp. It's you
[22:55] need practice to kind of come back to it
[22:59] and just come back to what we're doing.
[23:01] And that true nature appears
[23:03] automatically. So at the end of the
[23:05] conversation, he said, "Chris, I love
[23:07] you. Always stay golden." And that was a
[23:10] very interesting thing because my mind
[23:12] went
[23:14] Yeah. stay golden. And that just meant
[23:17] stay awake, stay present. You know, the
[23:22] Buddha is, you know, we call we he's
[23:24] gold here, but that is that's just the a
[23:26] symbol of his enlightenment, his symbol
[23:28] of just waking up to this everyday life
[23:30] and just doing what needs to be done
[23:32] that's in front of him, helping people,
[23:35] giving them, you know, the medicine that
[23:37] they needed or, you know, the mental
[23:40] medicine that they needed. You know,
[23:41] that that those conflicts in their mind,
[23:44] especially like the one that Bob had.
[23:47] So, not saying that I'm the Buddha, but
[23:50] I'm I am saying
[23:52] that in that moment it was very clear
[23:55] what I had to do.
[23:58] Um,
[24:00] and I'd like to talk about like all
[24:02] traditions kind of have this before
[24:04] thinking
[24:07] this true nature like some Catholics
[24:09] call it like the kingdom of God or uh
[24:13] Meister Echart I think he called it the
[24:14] spark of the soul, right?
[24:16] Yeah. And uh all the traditions call it
[24:20] we you know we call it true nature we
[24:22] call it all this but all pointing to the
[24:24] same thing
[24:27] and when we access that we can help
[24:31] others
[24:32] and we can just give them what's true to
[24:36] our experience and our true innate
[24:39] wisdom.
[24:43] Um
[24:45] before I end uh this kind of speech, uh
[24:50] Bob Bob is Bob is also very strong
[24:53] person. Uh I actually talked to him a
[24:56] while ago. He was in his wheelchair. He
[24:59] he's rolling his wheelchair. He's doing
[25:00] great now. He's he's he's mobile, but he
[25:02] was in his wheelchair at the time, and
[25:05] he told me that he was fixing up his uh
[25:07] barracuda for his grandson, and that's
[25:09] what he could do. He's He's in his
[25:12] wheelchair trying to take off this
[25:13] windshield. He's on He's hanging off of
[25:16] his wheelchair trying to get this
[25:19] windshield off to replace it so that he
[25:21] can get it ready for his grandchild.
[25:24] He's only five right now.
[25:26] But he's just like, I'm going to get
[25:29] this right in 10 years. This is going to
[25:31] be the most perfect car and I'm going to
[25:32] give it to when he turns 16 and he's
[25:34] going to drive it off to high school and
[25:36] he's going to have a great time. And
[25:38] that was that was his, you know, big,
[25:41] you know, uh,
[25:44] epiphany, I guess you could say, from
[25:46] our talk. Um, and
[25:52] you know,
[25:55] like I said, they're they're family to
[25:57] me. All of them are are family to me.
[25:59] And I would and I I I tend to give
[26:02] advice when I can, when they ask for it.
[26:04] Sometimes when they don't ask for it,
[26:06] I'm always opinionated. Um but
[26:11] um they've always helped me. They've
[26:13] always it's always been this one hand
[26:16] washes the other type of mentality that
[26:19] we have. And
[26:24] it's just a beautiful beautiful thing.
[26:27] And I I really encourage everyone in
[26:28] your everyday life, just put down your
[26:32] opinion, your condition, your situation
[26:34] when you're meeting someone and just
[26:38] straight help them. Just straight on
[26:41] just just do the thing. Just do it. And
[26:46] everything becomes very clear. The
[26:47] situation, the relationship, the
[26:49] function, all becomes very clear.
[26:54] So in the words of Bob
[26:58] I hope everyone here stays golden
[27:01] and
[27:03] and you come every Sunday. Keep coming.
[27:05] Keep coming back here. Keep practicing.
[27:07] Keep coming back to your true nature.
[27:10] Returning to that and al together let's
[27:12] try and help people.
[27:16] Um, I guess the last thing I'll probably
[27:19] say is, uh, before we end this,
[27:23] um, Bob, like I said, Bob is doing very
[27:26] well today. Uh, I really hope he sees
[27:28] this talk because he does mean a lot to
[27:30] me and the rest of the family. All the
[27:32] shiftlets and the lemmuse uh, mean a lot
[27:35] to me and they are some of the most
[27:38] important people in my life. Uh, so
[27:41] helping them is is the same as helping
[27:43] myself in in my eyes. And whatever
[27:48] wherever they're at, wherever their mind
[27:49] is at, I'm just going to meet it. So,
[27:54] um,
[27:57] yeah, thank you. Stay golden.
[28:02] >> Thank you, Chris.
[28:03] >> Yeah,
[28:03] >> I enjoyed that.
[28:06] >> Does someone have some question?
[28:11] >> [clears throat]
[28:13] >> Hold on.
[28:21] >> Oh yeah, go ahead.
[28:27] >> Can you [snorts] explain what does that
[28:29] mean and um how we use chanting in our
[28:33] tradition?
[28:37] >> Means uh
[28:38] is uh
[28:41] uh my name is uh Quan Hang. So that's uh
[28:44] perceived action. Quantum Bosa is
[28:47] perceived the sound of the uh of the
[28:50] universe, the the the people that are uh
[28:54] hurting and stuff like that. And so it's
[28:56] very interesting. Quantum Bosa appears
[28:58] as a uh I guess you could say sometimes
[29:01] you see with a mustache or she's got a
[29:03] mustache and and um uh sometimes she has
[29:07] a child kind of interesting. So there
[29:10] there's there's no um male female thing
[29:13] uh connected with that but it is all
[29:15] about compassion and uh so that's
[29:19] interesting thing is that uh Chris is
[29:21] talking about how he did quantum bossa
[29:24] konosa and that helped uh uh Bob the his
[29:28] somebody that he uh really felt for but
[29:30] you know you don't you don't want to get
[29:32] too um uh zeni you might say too zeny
[29:36] about that because I have no doubt that
[29:39] his whole family was also praying for
[29:41] him in a Catholic sense and in a
[29:43] Christian sense and all of that and and
[29:46] um if you want to say that that quantum
[29:48] bossa helped him but also then that that
[29:50] also that that helped him too. So when
[29:54] we practice kanbosa when we say kwan
[29:57] bosa here there's two ways you could do
[29:59] that. You could say um uh kamosa kobosa
[30:02] kwosa that's what we chant. So when we
[30:05] chant, we do a a a part that begins with
[30:08] that and then we hit this quant. We can
[30:11] do that for like an hour, we can do for
[30:12] 10 minutes, five minutes. But basically
[30:14] what it is is that when we do that, we
[30:17] want to have in mind the people that
[30:19] we're what that we're uh meaning to
[30:21] help. It could be anywhere from your
[30:24] your family members to uh uh to the
[30:28] Ukrainians to the Palestinians to um to
[30:32] whoever. uh and so um and to the uh
[30:36] folks here in the US and uh that are uh
[30:39] homeless and so you could have that in
[30:41] your mind while you're saying quantosa
[30:43] quanosa or you could do it completely
[30:45] differently and say simply 100% quanbosa
[30:49] quanosa and only in only that which is
[30:52] bringing you just to this moment and uh
[30:55] so uh kind of like that
[30:59] but it's important also that we see is
[31:02] that and and I I kind of uh I know it
[31:06] sounds kind of funny to say to Zeni is
[31:08] because yes he's that all the religions
[31:12] uh uh come together in a spiritual sense
[31:16] because why? Because we don't have a
[31:18] different spiritual self. See, I mean uh
[31:22] if we had a different spiritual self,
[31:24] things would be really weird. Not that
[31:26] they're not, [laughter]
[31:28] but um so in all ethnicities, all
[31:31] nationalities, all of us have experience
[31:34] or um any ethnicity or or a group of
[31:38] people or or a country or whatever
[31:41] that's been around any length of time
[31:43] explores the spiritual self. So it's
[31:46] very important that we don't walk
[31:48] around, oh, it's my spiritual self that
[31:50] counts around here. Nothing else counts.
[31:52] that doesn't work [laughter]
[31:54] as you can see that that's ridiculous.
[31:57] Um but however uh with the things the
[32:00] way that things are going in this world
[32:01] it seems to me that the spiritual self
[32:04] that we all have needs to come up and
[32:07] and and uh and express itself and and
[32:11] kind of heal the world. Otherwise it's
[32:13] not going to work because it's not going
[32:14] to work with our thinking minds. Our
[32:16] thinking minds are tied to our our
[32:18] desire mind, which is uh food, uh sex,
[32:22] uh uh money, power, and sleep. Sleep
[32:26] being one of we all love our sleep. Um
[32:29] [laughter]
[32:30] and and so um that's what our thinking
[32:33] mind hooks up to and and goes in that
[32:36] direction for that. uh but I our
[32:38] spiritual self is in if we connect with
[32:41] our spiritual self we can see that
[32:44] connection with the universe and with
[32:46] everybody else. So I I I want to kind of
[32:49] emphasize that. So then how can I help?
[32:52] How can I help? It means how can I help
[32:54] my as Chris is saying first the your
[32:57] family your grandson your your your uh
[33:00] son your daughter uh your wife and then
[33:03] from there how can I help my uh
[33:06] community or the people at my job and
[33:08] then from there how can I help the the
[33:11] community and if and it reaches out
[33:12] further kind of like that but um so uh
[33:17] sentient beings are numberless uh I um
[33:21] vowed to save them all means how can I
[33:24] help my my my mother? How can I help my
[33:27] brother? You know, that's that's where
[33:30] that that's how that expresses. Um, I
[33:34] always like to talk about his master at
[33:35] Tong where he says he would go to uh he
[33:38] was at a children's hospital which
[33:40] actually has a a really good uh uh
[33:44] cancer uh place where they help work uh
[33:46] people with cancer and he had a very
[33:48] strong kind of uh uh cancer which was
[33:51] like a leukemia. And there he went to uh
[33:54] uh to get that worked on and he did. He
[33:58] overcame his his illness. But also there
[34:00] was a sign that was up in a children's
[34:02] hospital until and it said until every
[34:05] child is saved, which is really uh uh
[34:08] the same thing as uh you know uh we vow
[34:12] to save all sensient beings. It's how we
[34:14] vow to heal all children is what the
[34:16] sign said in children's hospital.
[34:18] Because when you do that and when you
[34:20] say that then all the human beings all
[34:23] the employees of children's hospital can
[34:26] help that means the janitor and the and
[34:29] the person in the cafeteria all of them
[34:31] could work to that goal of helping not
[34:33] just the ones who uh actually uh uh work
[34:37] directly with the children. So that's a
[34:39] kind of interesting point. Um, and
[34:42] that's how a a spiritual spirituality
[34:45] I I would think would um would express
[34:49] itself.
[34:51] Does that answer your question about
[34:52] consos?
[34:59] >> I have a question for Chris. Um, you
[35:02] don't have [clears throat] to answer if
[35:03] you don't want to. Um, but it sounds
[35:06] like you're from a very strong Catholic
[35:08] background. This family that you're
[35:10] involved with,
[35:11] >> um, has a very strong Catholic
[35:13] background. But you mentioned, um, Uncle
[35:17] David who brought you helped bring you
[35:19] to practice. And I wonder if you could
[35:22] say something a little bit about how you
[35:24] came to practice.
[35:26] And then um I'd like to also ask the
[35:29] same question of um
[35:31] >> uh of the Zen teacher too of the Zen
[35:35] master.
[35:36] >> Sure. Uh it's interesting how I I first
[35:39] came to practice. So Uncle Dave, it was
[35:42] not only um my
[35:47] first kind of intro to Zen. He was my
[35:49] martial arts teacher.
[35:50] >> Could you aim that camera at him?
[35:53] >> Oh, you got the camera aimed at him.
[35:55] Okay, go ahead. So, so, uh, Uncle David
[35:58] was also my first martial arts teacher.
[36:00] And
[36:02] there was an interesting moment where he
[36:06] likes he likes kungans. He likes
[36:08] Kongans. And he he gripped me into this
[36:11] lock much like this. And he goes, "If
[36:14] you have a stick, I'll give it to you.
[36:16] You have no stick, I'll take it away."
[36:18] And I was very confused by that. And he
[36:19] threw me
[36:21] just like in the air. Boom. And I
[36:23] remember rolling getting up and I was
[36:27] very clear. I was like my head was just
[36:32] very clear about like what I was doing.
[36:35] I was just rolling and I was very
[36:37] interested in this mind. And he goes,
[36:39] "You should keep that mind."
[36:41] And I was like, "Oh, okay." And then I
[36:44] had a few other college teachers
[36:47] recommend Zen to me. And through a lot
[36:50] of suffering, I understood the first
[36:53] noble truth and I was like, "Oh, this is
[36:55] the real deal." So, I went looking and I
[36:58] went to a few places. They didn't really
[37:01] work out for me. But because I'm a
[37:02] local, I have the great advantage of
[37:05] knowing about this place. So, I tried
[37:07] here and the practice really fit with
[37:09] me. And I remember actually Quan
[37:13] Henstein was uh giving a dharma talk on
[37:15] a Sunday. He was talking about ice
[37:18] cream.
[37:20] And if you know this talk, you know that
[37:23] uh he really likes ice cream. He really
[37:25] likes chocolate ice cream.
[37:27] [clears throat]
[37:27] And one day his little brother ate his
[37:30] chocolate ice cream and he was really
[37:32] mad and he was really stuck on this
[37:35] chocolate ice cream. But if he wasn't
[37:36] and he was really clear with himself, he
[37:38] would know that there was vanilla ice
[37:39] cream in the fridge the whole time and
[37:41] could had that.
[37:43] >> Now, and that stuck with me. that hit me
[37:45] so hard that I stayed. I've stayed for
[37:48] 10 years and I'm not leaving.
[37:52] >> Ice cream, huh?
[37:53] >> Yeah, man. That was it. Yeah, it was it
[37:55] was that simple. Your teaching was very
[37:56] clear, very simple in
[38:00] so uh that's how that started. But Uncle
[38:02] Dave today we even he likes theoretical
[38:06] zen. So we we we talk about kungans and
[38:10] kans and the traditions and what is this
[38:13] mind and what is the hook of the kan and
[38:17] all these other things that I a more
[38:20] experienced teacher could talk about
[38:22] with you. Um but yeah we'll we'll sit
[38:25] there have you know sip tea and just go
[38:29] old style and just and just talk about
[38:31] what is this true nature? What is this
[38:33] Buddha nature? why why are we human
[38:36] beings and why are we here? So I still
[38:38] have this conversation with him every
[38:40] day.
[38:41] Um yeah, so he he's a big part of my
[38:44] life. Thank you.
[38:50] There's a um I often talk about how I
[38:53] became a Buddhist when I started as a
[38:56] Catholic, but there's a different take
[38:57] on that also is that as a Catholic um I
[39:02] really experienced was able to
[39:03] experience this spiritual side this what
[39:06] we call well we call it a spiritual side
[39:08] of of of myself that I never um that
[39:12] I've always been able to find through
[39:14] whatever it is. I mean one time at one
[39:16] point I became an atheist. I didn't
[39:18] believe it anything and um of course
[39:21] that had a lot to do with what was going
[39:23] on with a lot of the problems the church
[39:25] was having but I was able at some point
[39:27] to separate the problems the church was
[39:29] having and the spirituality of of the
[39:33] practice of Catholicism and uh and that
[39:35] happened many years later when I met uh
[39:38] uh uh Catholic people in Korea who were
[39:41] um who were priests actually and they
[39:44] came from another country. So that kind
[39:46] of uh fixed that. But one of the things
[39:48] is that I find very interesting is that
[39:51] um I wonder about people who are not
[39:54] brought up with a spiritual kind of a uh
[39:57] discipline how they become spiritual
[39:59] because there's a lot of people that
[40:00] come here that have not have had had a
[40:03] discipline. Anyways, when I was of
[40:06] course while I was going through my uh
[40:09] difficulties I uh stumbled on to Alan
[40:11] Watson. I think most people here know
[40:13] about Alan Watts and I just listened to
[40:16] a lot of Alan Watts almost. He would
[40:18] come on WBCN every Sunday. So that was
[40:21] kind of like my sermon of the of the
[40:24] week. And I noticed that one day I sat
[40:26] down said, you know, instead of going to
[40:28] church, I'm listening to Alan Watts. So
[40:30] what's changed here? [laughter]
[40:31] So that was kind of interesting. So with
[40:33] that Alan Watson when things became
[40:36] difficult in my life, uh uh uh uh I had
[40:39] a lot of anger and all that other stuff.
[40:41] I naturally turned to uh uh uh Buddhism
[40:46] and uh I just read a lot of it and
[40:48] practiced on my own and while I was
[40:51] practicing I had a a a fairly to me a
[40:56] deep insight and that insight was that
[40:59] um I had a lot of karma a lot of karma a
[41:02] mountain load of karma and it's very
[41:05] interesting because this happened a just
[41:06] like that I saw all that happened but I
[41:09] had this mountain load of karma that was
[41:12] uh created by me. It wasn't made by
[41:15] somebody else. I wasn't going to die and
[41:17] go up there and get into argument with
[41:18] the person that made me because he made
[41:20] me a knucklehead and all that sort of
[41:22] thing. That wasn't going to happen. I
[41:24] was in my position because I was that
[41:27] was my doing. And this doing I had to
[41:31] get out of myself,
[41:34] you know, that wasn't going to somebody
[41:35] else wasn't going to magically come down
[41:38] and and do it for me. And it was and it
[41:40] was going to take more than just wishing
[41:43] and wanting. I had to do something. And
[41:45] that's when really I began uh and of
[41:48] course the experience that I had I was
[41:50] sitting very hard and and and and
[41:53] practicing. So when that happened in
[41:55] that sense of practicing I just headed
[41:58] right for Zen and Buddhism everything. I
[42:00] had all the answers that I needed and
[42:03] the main answer that it had at that time
[42:05] was um yes things was rough. I had a lot
[42:09] of karma, but it was only me that was
[42:11] going to work myself out of it, not
[42:13] somebody else. Uh um and it wasn't
[42:15] nobody else's fault, but mine. So that's
[42:18] kind of like where um that came from.
[42:21] And then later on I experienced a lot of
[42:24] anger because that time in my actual
[42:26] experience of anger was different. And I
[42:28] just think what happened is that when my
[42:30] when I began practicing all this anger
[42:33] that I've been suppressing all my life
[42:35] began to really uh uh uh appear for me
[42:38] and get out of hand. And so um and
[42:42] instead of backing off from practice, I
[42:45] I did, as they say, double down. And I
[42:48] went to Korea and became a to become a
[42:50] monk and just sat there and really
[42:52] looked at this this anger, looked at
[42:55] this stuff that was going on. And I
[42:57] realized that uh once again, it was me,
[43:01] you know, it wasn't somebody else. It
[43:02] wasn't some person up there. and and and
[43:06] um so the people that was making me
[43:07] angry, it isn't that they were making me
[43:09] angry is I decided to be angry um by
[43:14] they I reacted to what they did by
[43:17] deciding to be angry but I didn't have
[43:18] to be angry and so that was very kind of
[43:22] interesting point. So then uh a lot of
[43:25] stuff a lot with that practicing with
[43:26] that sitting down and just letting uh uh
[43:30] this mind appear okay this anger appear
[43:34] but don't hold on to it and don't push
[43:35] it away just come just look at it and
[43:37] see um and then let it pass and then it
[43:40] came back again and let it pass and as
[43:42] that happened the the the hold that the
[43:45] anger had on me let go it everybody sees
[43:49] me now I don't have that that kind of
[43:52] anger where um yeah that's that's that's
[43:55] not it's just not present. So um yeah
[43:59] that that's how that that happened. Um
[44:03] and I was talking with Zen master Sunung
[44:06] gave a a a talk and and he was also
[44:08] there's that side there's that side
[44:10] where it's just looking inside and and
[44:13] and helping yourself but when you look
[44:15] inside and help yourself and work with
[44:18] that you work with it in a sense it's
[44:20] it's really kind of important because
[44:22] it's hard to make that jump. You work
[44:24] with it in the sense that you see that
[44:26] you are connected to everybody else. you
[44:30] know, you're connected. There's a
[44:31] connection that you have with everybody
[44:33] else. And it's not uh so this side, yes,
[44:36] I'm um I have all this anger, but then
[44:39] you begin to see that that anger is
[44:41] something that's uh that actually
[44:44] doesn't exist
[44:46] outside of your thinking. That's really
[44:48] interesting. It doesn't exist outside of
[44:50] your thinking. And then uh but there's
[44:53] something else that exists in this this
[44:55] connection that we have with all of us.
[44:58] And how do we uh use that connection?
[45:01] How do we express that connection? It's
[45:03] not by going around saying that oh my
[45:05] way is the only way. That's that doesn't
[45:07] work that way. It's how it's how can I
[45:10] help? How can I help? That's very
[45:13] important.
[45:20] >> Uh yeah,
[45:21] >> good morning. Thank you very much for
[45:23] that talk. Um, sure. That was quite
[45:27] >> I'm curious about something that you
[45:30] said about Uncle Bob and after he
[45:34] became conscious again,
[45:36] he said that he someone told him or he
[45:43] just knew that he was supposed to stay
[45:45] put.
[45:46] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[45:48] >> Who or what
[45:50] is telling him to stay put? That is my
[45:53] question for for either one of you. I'm
[45:55] just curious from the you know what is
[45:58] that
[46:02] >> only just that
[46:06] not enough?
[46:08] >> No. [laughter]
[46:11] >> Nope.
[46:16] >> Yeah. [clears throat] So that's um I
[46:19] don't know. So that that that well no it
[46:23] is it's but it's it's very difficult to
[46:25] to point that's your int his intuitive
[46:28] mind his before thinking mind that that
[46:30] that very interesting self I mean I was
[46:34] at at with my sister at one time and we
[46:37] were in this apartment that had stairs
[46:39] that was so stupid but it had stairs and
[46:43] at one point her her her son uh uh we
[46:46] called him Pooh Bear went tumbling down
[46:49] the stairs And it was really weird
[46:51] because I I heard him falling down the
[46:54] stairs and I got really afraid for him.
[46:57] But something else in my mind said he's
[46:59] going to be okay and he was. It was
[47:01] really weird. So where did that come
[47:03] from? Where did that come? That's your
[47:05] intuitive before thinking mind. This
[47:07] universal self. I How do we explain it?
[47:10] You explained that this one pure and
[47:12] clear thing is um uh always was always
[47:16] will be and and um it was before the
[47:19] ancient Buddhist was born but that
[47:21] always was and always will be reminds me
[47:23] the Catholic religion and that's what
[47:25] they say about God. He always was and
[47:27] always will be. So there is something
[47:29] there and and the way that we connect
[47:32] with it is to me is beginning to this
[47:35] this spiritual self this before thinking
[47:37] self that all people have and it's not
[47:41] uh so uh this religion uh depends on it
[47:44] but it's not dependent on religion so
[47:48] you don't have to be a religious person
[47:50] to do that but I think what happens that
[47:52] if you really uh uh practice the
[47:55] religion that you're doing correctly you
[47:57] can come in contact with it because it
[47:59] has a form and it has technique for you
[48:01] to do it and to do it in your regular
[48:04] life. Um uh you can be really like a
[48:07] borrow and and and everybody knows
[48:09] people that are like that that are not
[48:11] religious that uh uh connect with this
[48:14] uh uh
[48:16] this human self that with with each
[48:19] other. And so those are those are the
[48:21] only ways that you could could look at
[48:23] it.
[48:26] And I don't have another way. But I can
[48:29] tell you something else that Zen master
[48:30] debunks said and Mrs. has to do then you
[48:33] have to kind of like believe in
[48:35] reincarnation. But he says that uh you
[48:38] are born in a certain country because
[48:39] you have uh uh some karma with that
[48:42] country. So I'm born American because I
[48:44] have some American karma. Somebody's
[48:46] born Korean because they have some
[48:47] Korean karma. And it's all mixed up. If
[48:50] you try to think about it why you are
[48:52] born in a certain place then that has to
[48:55] be um uh then it will drive you crazy
[48:58] but also you're born in a certain family
[49:01] because you're you have a karma with
[49:03] that family. So then he says that what
[49:06] there is is that there's a kind of a a
[49:08] consciousness
[49:10] a consciousness that um that that uh so
[49:14] that me so when I uh left my family and
[49:19] began practicing things in my family
[49:21] really improved why because I mean
[49:24] according to this says is that when I'm
[49:27] practicing I became clear but that
[49:28] energy also spilled over into my my
[49:31] family. So that is is uh so that's no
[49:34] doubt is that when I went to Korea and
[49:36] started practicing that they improved
[49:38] and um so what are you going to say
[49:42] about all this stuff? [laughter]
[49:44] That's that's kind of like how it is.
[49:46] And I it it probably didn't give you no
[49:48] answer, but I believe that in your life
[49:51] in your own life that you've had this
[49:53] intuitive mind, this spiritual spine
[49:56] just come up and give you some answer
[49:58] for some particular thing. You don't
[49:59] know where it came from. It was there.
[50:01] Boom. All human beings have that
[50:03] experience. And so what can you say
[50:06] about that?
[50:09] >> Thank you.
[50:10] >> You're welcome.
[50:14] >> Then um we have time for one more if we
[50:18] have.
[50:22] >> Uh hi, I'm Josh. Uh thank you for your
[50:25] talk. Thank you for sharing such a
[50:27] personal story. I think it's very
[50:29] helpful. Um
[50:31] Chris said something in his talk though
[50:33] that's got me a little um he's given me
[50:35] a question. So I'll present that to you
[50:38] as best I can. He said you know this
[50:41] intuitive nature this before
[50:44] mind is natural
[50:47] and
[50:49] I don't know um
[50:53] it's natural with trying and practice
[50:55] maybe you know try try try and then it
[50:58] becomes you know they kind of your life
[51:00] flips a little bit and that person that
[51:02] takes care of everything takes over a
[51:04] little bit maybe but
[51:06] um seems like the natural thing is just
[51:09] to kind of follow my desires sometimes.
[51:12] [laughter] Like we could go to the
[51:13] casino and have some drinks and play the
[51:15] roulette table and like smoke a doge,
[51:18] you know, feel good. What are we doing?
[51:20] >> Crack that person across the head that
[51:22] makes you mad.
[51:23] >> Yeah. [laughter]
[51:24] >> So, I don't I don't know. It it it
[51:27] almost doesn't feel natural. Um but we
[51:30] discover it and we try it and then it
[51:33] sort of becomes our nature.
[51:35] >> Yeah.
[51:35] >> So, can can you speak to that? Is that
[51:37] just that I mean it's my experience but
[51:39] I'm wondering what it's like for you.
[51:40] >> I don't know. You can talk about that in
[51:42] so many ways in a in a spiritual way but
[51:45] in a political way in a social way. It's
[51:47] all has to do with like our society how
[51:50] we have but there have been societies as
[51:52] I understand that didn't that don't go
[51:54] the way that our society goes which says
[51:56] if he makes you mad crack him across the
[51:58] head or [laughter]
[52:00] a capitalist society that says oh money
[52:03] rules. I I don't. So, uh, if you look at
[52:06] the history and all of that, it's not
[52:08] how we human beings always were. But
[52:10] yeah, I I see what you're saying. And
[52:13] the only way that I could point out is
[52:15] that there's this there's we have this
[52:17] body and his body wants to survive. So
[52:20] there's that part of it. But this um uh
[52:23] thing that we that Chris was pointing
[52:25] out before thinking and everything every
[52:28] human being has it all even all animals
[52:30] have this this this uh uh this self this
[52:35] this before thinking this one pure and
[52:38] clear thing. It's and so it's natural in
[52:41] the that sense that we all have it. But
[52:44] do we all act out it? No. Do we all uh
[52:47] it's it's yeah and so that's what the
[52:50] whole thing about practicing in
[52:52] spirituality is is to uncover um this
[52:56] spiritual self
[52:58] that's that's all and I maybe to me
[53:02] that's the purpose of humanity is to
[53:04] connect with that that spiritual self
[53:07] and somehow overcome this whole mess
[53:09] that we've created. I don't see any
[53:12] other reason for I personally don't see
[53:15] any other reason for existence
[53:18] outside of that is to overcome this all
[53:20] of this u all of these issues and all of
[53:23] these problems with this thing that we
[53:26] have that we all have that is totally
[53:28] natural but because it's natural doesn't
[53:31] mean that it's dominant and that it's
[53:33] the that we all act out of it. So,
[53:40] okay.
[53:44] >> All right, everybody. Well, thank you
[53:45] for joining us today. Thank you, Chris,
[53:47] for your talk and Sean for your wise
[53:49] answers.
[53:51] So, a few announcements. Uh, we talked
[53:53] about Quanosel. I will let you know next
[53:56] Saturday we are going to have a keto
[53:58] retreat here. And during that retreat,
[54:01] it will be led by Matt Keeler, Jet
[54:03] Popsin, and we're going to chantwan
[54:06] Sambos for the day. So, uh, we'll do a
[54:09] little sitting, but we'll mostly do
[54:10] chanting. So, come and join us. Uh, a
[54:13] few other announcements. Let's see. We
[54:16] have a two-day YMJ the following week,
[54:19] November uh, 7th and 8th, with Quan
[54:21] Henson. You can sit both or only one of
[54:25] those days as you'd like. Uh we have a
[54:28] Christian Buddhist retreat coming up
[54:30] November 21st. That'll be a one-day
[54:33] retreat led by Zam Master Tangong. And
[54:36] then we have our 7-day YMJJ
[54:39] uh first week of December starting
[54:42] December 5th that will be led by our
[54:44] schools Zen Master uh Zen Master Seyong
[54:48] uh Bobby Rhodess. And you can sit as few
[54:51] as three days or as many as the whole
[54:53] week. Also on December 5th, we will be
[54:56] having a foundations of Zen workshop. So
[54:59] if you want to come in and learn a
[55:01] little bit more about the history of
[55:02] Buddhism, the history of our lineage
[55:05] specifically and some other fun facts,
[55:08] come and join us. That will be led by
[55:10] Zam Master Tangong Kuang Henim and uh
[55:13] many of our senior dharma teachers here.
[55:16] Uh today we will have the gift shop
[55:18] open. We will also have snacks outside.
[55:20] Uh two other things uh as we say uh the
[55:26] dharma is free but um internet and uh
[55:30] electricity is not. So if you are so
[55:34] inclined please feel free to give us a
[55:36] donation in the donation box. And
[55:38] another way to support us is also
[55:40] membership. With membership you uh get
[55:43] to have access to the PCC retreats at a
[55:46] membership rate as well as one free
[55:48] guest stay per month. So, and then
[55:50] additionally, we have right here right
[55:52] now, which is our writing group that
[55:56] meets uh one monthly on the fourth
[55:58] Sunday of the month led by Eva. We're
[56:00] going to be meeting today in the pagod.
[56:02] So, if anybody brought your pen and
[56:04] paper, feel free to join Eva. Um
[56:07] >> 1210 people are always late.
[56:10] >> Okay. 1210.
[56:12] All right, everybody.
[56:18] >> [laughter]
[56:21] >> All right, everybody. Well, thank you.
[56:23] Have a good day.
[56:35] Yeah.
[57:12] You want a little
[57:42] Nice to see you.
[57:57] Sure,
[58:10] I'll get
[58:10] >> it.
[58:23] Tonight,
[58:29] Friday.
[58:59] I love
[59:07] Yes.
[59:23] Take this way.
[59:25] >> And bring that chair back and we're
[59:27] done.
[59:30] Share.