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Inspiration

Army Remote Viewer on Hundreds of UFOs, Robots, and Death

TE
Third Eye Drops
Nov 10, 2026
9 min de lectura

De THIRD EYE DROPS with Michael Phillip

Ver · 4

"Joe, so nice to officially meet you." The host, Michael Phillip, has a confession to make before the recording gets going: he met his guest briefly at an event called the Gateway, and he suspects the handshake was lost in a blur of faces. McMoneagle's reply is dry. "15 years of them." It is a small, human opening to a three-hour conversation recorded in person at the Monroe Institute on Robert Monroe's birthday, and it sets the tone for everything that follows: a man who spent years in classified military work, talking openly about Cold War espionage, out-of-body exploration, near-death experiences, and a belief that many of the beings reported in UFOs are not what they appear to be. This article draws on that episode, published on the Third Eye Drops channel, and works through the ideas McMoneagle lays out, including the parts that are his personal conclusions rather than settled findings.

Leer · 7 secciones

What did a remote viewer actually see when he targeted UFOs?

The episode's most arresting claim arrives in its first minutes. McMoneagle says that he served in Stargate for seven and a half years, that he was the last remote viewer left in the program at the time he was speaking of, and that he has targeted hundreds of UFOs. His account of what he encountered is precise about what he did not find. "Never saw an entity in any of them," he told Third Eye Drops in the conversation.

He then complicates that statement in the same breath. He did see beings, he says, and he uses the word aliens because, in his words, there is no other word to use. But he is clear that they are not aliens in any meaningful sense. "What they are, they're robots. Every entity I've ever seen in a UFO, except for one UFO, are all robots." He ties that conclusion to the sheer number of targets he worked and to certain mysteries the Department of Defense asked him to look into. The episode's own description frames the belief the same way: that many apparent UFO occupants are biological robots, grown, programmed, and deployed by something else.

It is worth pausing on the epistemics here. McMoneagle is describing a body of targeting work that he says was tasked by the military, and he is interpreting it. A reader can take the operational history seriously while still recognizing that the leap from "I perceived these entities" to "they are grown and programmed" is his inference, and the episode presents it as such.

Why does McMoneagle say we should be talking about ourselves?

The more striking turn is not about the visitors. It is about us. McMoneagle says he has come to a conclusion that he "has a sense" of: that humans are not originally from this planet. From that, he offers a reframing. "When people talk about aliens, we should be talking about ourselves."

He does not elaborate on the origin story in the excerpt available here, and it would be a mistake to fill that gap with speculation. What the conversation does establish is the mood of his thinking: that the question of who we are is open, and that the usual split between "us" and "them" may be the wrong frame. The episode's broader theme, stated in its description, is what McMoneagle calls humanity sharing Earth with an older intelligence.

The conversation then moves to the political side of remote viewing. McMoneagle says that "the more of that you do, the more of a threat you become to your own nation." The speakers link this to the reason the program was closed, with one of them suggesting that if a person can point awareness at one place, they can point it anywhere, and that this capacity is dangerous to the institutions that want to control information. The episode treats this as a reflection on the stakes of the work rather than an established account of why Stargate ended, and the distinction matters.

What does "one world" mean for personal responsibility?

Before any of the classified material, McMoneagle answers the host's opening question about how his sense of reality has changed. His answer is a kind of philosophy of self. Most people, he says, assume they live in a shared world. But each person is in a world of their own, and we only ever meet one another for a sliver of time. "The only world you're in charge of is yours."

From that starting point, he draws a conclusion that he admits most people resist: "everything that happens to you, good, bad, or indifferent, you are the cause of it." He is careful to say that actions affect others too, but the primary effect is on the self. The host presses the point: he has read McMoneagle's books and watched his interviews, and he believes the teacher means this at a deeper level than the usual "you make your own luck" slogan. McMoneagle agrees. He describes how we receive what happens to us and how we respond, and that a person can either try to improve or try to fix what is happening. What he rejects is the excuse. "We certainly can't say I'm in this mood because the world is crappy."

"It's what you do with it." — Joe McMoneagle, in conversation with Michael Phillip on Third Eye Drops

This is the bridge to the episode's larger questions about the self. If each person is their own world, then what is the self that holds it? That is where the host turns, asking what McMoneagle thinks the higher or total self is, beyond the mortal body.

How does the life review work, according to McMoneagle?

McMoneagle is honest that no one can definitively answer this from experience. "Nobody's actually been dead a long time and come back," he says, and those who have returned often do not remember where they were or who they were. So he turns to near-death reports. People who come close to death sometimes describe reviewing their entire life in seconds, and McMoneagle takes that seriously rather than dismissing it as impossible.

His explanation is a model of how experience is stored. In life, he says, we are creating time and space at once. When those two are married together, they produce a location, and that location and event do not go away. Each reaction we have to something gives a fixed point with a specific date, time, and place. Over a lifetime, these points accumulate into something that looks like a wire diagram, held together by a series of connections.

"It's held together only with that tack weld. The tack weld being your experience." — Joe McMoneagle, Third Eye Drops

That image does a lot of work. It suggests that the life review is not a film being rewound from outside but a viewing of structure that was built moment by moment. It also links back to the "one world" argument: if every experience is a weld point that you yourself made, then the review at death is the moment you finally see the whole construction you were responsible for. McMoneagle offers this as his understanding rather than a proof, and the episode explicitly invites listeners to weigh it.

Why does rigor matter when the subject is psychic ability?

The episode's description says McMoneagle questions some popular claims about psychic abilities and stresses why rigorous blind protocols matter. That is a notable stance for a man whose career is tied to a program that many people associate with mystique. It is also what gives his testimony credibility: he is not presenting remote viewing as a parlor trick, and he is not asking to be believed on faith.

The Stargate background the host sketches in the introduction is useful context. He describes McMoneagle sketching a massive experimental submarine inside top secret Soviet facilities before satellites knew it existed, tracking counterintelligence targets using only a Social Security number, and receiving the Legion of Merit for intelligence work across hundreds of operational missions. These are the host's summaries in the episode's opening, and they are claims a reader should weigh as the host's framing of the record. They are also precisely the kind of claims that blind protocols are designed to test: the value of a remote viewing hit depends on whether the viewer was truly separated from the target and the answer was checked afterward.

That is the discipline that lets the bigger questions be asked at all. McMoneagle's views on robots, origins, and the life review are his own. The episode is most valuable when treated the way he seems to treat them: as hypotheses from a person with an unusually long record of trying to measure what the mind can perceive.

What is still open after the three hours?

The episode covers far more than this article can. The description lists Robert Monroe and out-of-body exploration, near-death experiences and reincarnation, the nature of the self, and a famous Mars remote viewing session that McMoneagle describes in detail. Those sections deserve their own careful reading, and this piece has not tried to summarize them beyond what the material supports.

What holds across the conversation is a single demand: that we take the question of what we are seriously, without assuming the answer is already known. McMoneagle's closing position, as expressed in these sections, is that the more we perceive, the more responsibility we carry for what we perceive. That is a demanding idea, and it is probably the reason he keeps returning to it.

Where to go from here

If this conversation has you thinking about the mind's reach, start with the parts that are most grounded: the host's account of the Stargate record, and McMoneagle's careful distinction between what he saw and what he concludes. Then listen to the sections on Robert Monroe and the life review, where the ideas about self and responsibility are developed most fully. Watch the full episode on the Third Eye Drops channel, and pay attention to where the speakers agree, where they hedge, and where they simply say they do not know.

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Transcript

[0:00] I was in Stargate in the military 7 and

[0:03] a half years. I was the only remote

[0:05] viewer left. I I will tell you frankly I

[0:09] I've targeted hundreds hundreds of UFOs.

[0:12] >> Wow.

[0:14] >> Never saw an entity in any of them.

[0:16] >> Now, I did see aliens, but I would call

[0:21] aliens because there's no other word to

[0:24] use.

[0:24] >> Yeah.

[0:25] >> Uh they're not aliens actually. What

[0:27] they are, they're robots. Every entity

[0:30] I've ever seen in a UFO, except for one

[0:32] UFO, are all robots. Because of the

[0:36] numbers of targets that I did in my

[0:39] lifetime

[0:40] and some of the things I looked into

[0:42] that were mysteries that the DoD wanted

[0:45] solved.

[0:47] >> Um, the conclusion I came to, um, I have

[0:51] a sense that we're not originally from

[0:53] this planet. So when people talk about

[0:56] aliens, we should be talking about

[0:58] ourselves.

[0:59] What's fascinating to me is the more of

[1:02] that you do, the more of a threat you

[1:03] become to your own nation.

[1:05] >> True. Yeah.

[1:06] >> Think about it.

[1:07] >> That's I think the reason why they shut

[1:10] it down.

[1:10] >> Yeah. Yeah. Because if you can do if you

[1:12] can point your awareness there, you can

[1:14] point it anywhere. And that's a

[1:15] dangerous

[1:17] >> if if I said when you produce

[1:20] information that you shouldn't know,

[1:22] >> right? and you're standing in front of

[1:25] somebody who says, "There's only three

[1:28] people in the entire world that know

[1:31] we're planning A."

[1:33] >> Yeah.

[1:34] >> And you're number four.

[1:35] >> Yeah.

[1:36] >> Give us a source or die right here.

[1:39] >> Yeah.

[1:39] >> Put that on precise.

[1:45] If you have spent any time investigating

[1:48] the outer reaches of what's possible

[1:50] through human consciousness, remote

[1:52] viewing in particular, you've likely

[1:54] heard the legend of our guest in this

[1:56] one, Joe McMongle. But if not, he is

[2:00] known as remote viewer 0001. He is one

[2:04] of the original six operational psychic

[2:06] spies recruited into the US Army's

[2:08] classified Stargate program. This man

[2:10] has spent four decades at the bleeding

[2:13] edge of anomalous cognition and

[2:15] laboratory research and doing out-of-

[2:17] body research with his friend Bob Monroe

[2:20] at the Monroe Institute, which is

[2:21] actually where we recorded this episode.

[2:23] During his Stargate tenure, he peered

[2:25] inside top secret Soviet facilities to

[2:28] sketch a massive experimental submarine

[2:31] before satellites even knew it existed.

[2:33] He tracked counter intelligence targets

[2:35] using only their social security number.

[2:37] He even earned the Legion of Merit Medal

[2:40] for producing crucial unobtainable

[2:42] intelligence across hundreds of

[2:44] operational missions. And I'm mentioning

[2:46] all of this in the introduction because

[2:48] I really tried to go beyond the standard

[2:51] uh McMongle lore, as much as I love it.

[2:53] We talk about everything from what Joe

[2:56] learned about the nature of reality, the

[2:58] mind, and the soul from his near-death

[3:00] experiences, why he believes humans are

[3:03] not originally from this planet, and the

[3:05] incredible perplexing moment when an

[3:08] intelligence from inside of a UFO seemed

[3:10] to sever Joe's mind from viewing the

[3:13] target. And sincerely, my friends, just

[3:16] so much more. I am tempted to go on,

[3:17] believe me. But without further ado,

[3:20] here's the great Joe McMagle. Joe, so

[3:23] nice to officially meet you. I actually

[3:25] met you briefly at at the Gateway, but I

[3:28] know you do so many of those and I'm

[3:30] sure it's just a blur.

[3:31] >> A lot of them

[3:32] >> of faces. Yeah.

[3:33] >> 15 years of them.

[3:34] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

[3:36] >> Yeah.

[3:37] >> So, I said I was going to try to ask you

[3:39] some things that maybe you haven't been

[3:40] asked a million times. And this is

[3:42] definitely something you have been

[3:43] asked, but I'm guessing this usually

[3:45] comes more toward the end of the

[3:46] conversation, which is sort of a more

[3:49] broadly philosophical question.

[3:52] You've lived a life that is intensely

[3:56] different than most people. You've had

[3:57] so many anomalous experiences. You've

[4:00] been involved in so many things that

[4:02] most people would consider to be

[4:03] paranormal. But then, of course, you

[4:05] also just live a life that everybody

[4:07] else is living. So, just right out of

[4:10] the gate, how has your view of reality

[4:13] sort of evolved as you've gotten to the

[4:17] stage of life that you're in now? That's

[4:19] a really good question because it it uh

[4:23] sort of opened the door to the one thing

[4:25] we should all understand.

[4:28] >> Okay. And that is that

[4:31] uh we we think we live in a single world

[4:34] where we share the world with everybody.

[4:36] >> Yeah.

[4:37] >> And uh everybody's either mcking it up

[4:39] for us or they're making it better or

[4:41] whatever. When in fact there's only one

[4:44] world. That's the one we're in. each one

[4:47] of us is in, they're separate from

[4:49] anything else because sharing that world

[4:53] with everybody else. If you

[4:56] only meet somebody for a couple hours

[4:58] across a year, let's say, the best you

[5:01] could say is, "Hey, where you been?"

[5:04] They say, "Oh, I went to an island and

[5:06] lived there all all year."

[5:09] >> And you can only say, "I believe you."

[5:12] You can never know for sure. So the only

[5:15] world you're in charge of is yours.

[5:18] It teaches you immediately by having

[5:21] that understanding that everything that

[5:24] happens to you, good, bad, or

[5:27] indifferent, you are the cause of it.

[5:31] >> Most people won't accept that.

[5:33] >> Yeah. And and I know because of

[5:36] having watched so many of your

[5:38] interviews and having read some of your

[5:39] books that when you say that you mean

[5:42] that on kind of a deeper level than I

[5:44] think most people, you know, they they

[5:46] hear, "Oh, you either make it happen or

[5:48] you don't." They're probably thinking

[5:50] about that on a very

[5:51] >> surface level, but that might go to a

[5:53] very deep onlogical level. Once you

[5:55] start getting into, oh,

[5:56] >> absolutely.

[5:57] >> Well, what is you? what what is the

[5:58] totality of of self or you know the

[6:01] total self as Bob

[6:03] >> would say. Um so so when you say that

[6:05] that it's really all up to you

[6:08] >> is are you talking about that kind of

[6:10] more deep level?

[6:11] >> Absolutely. You're talking about

[6:14] >> uh every action that you make, every

[6:18] decision you make, everything that you

[6:19] do has a direct effect on you.

[6:22] >> Mhm. Of course, it affects others too to

[6:26] a lesser lesser degree. But it's the

[6:29] very reason why we might be having a

[6:32] really really bad life and a really

[6:35] really good life.

[6:36] >> Yeah.

[6:36] >> It's how we receive

[6:40] what things happen do to us and how we

[6:44] respond to them. We can either try to be

[6:47] better or figure out a way to fix

[6:50] whatever is going on or not. But we

[6:53] certainly can't say I'm in this mood

[6:55] because the world is crappy.

[6:58] >> Yeah.

[6:58] >> Okay.

[6:59] >> Yeah.

[6:59] >> It's what you do with it.

[7:01] >> That that's a thing that a lot of people

[7:04] don't want to hear. But since we're

[7:06] since we're asking these really big

[7:08] questions like from the beginning,

[7:11] >> what what do you think the self is,

[7:15] >> you know, like like beyond this mortal

[7:18] shell? Like what what is the the reality

[7:21] of, you know, the higher self, the total

[7:24] self? How have you come to understand

[7:27] that if at all?

[7:28] >> Well, we don't really know because

[7:31] nobody's actually been dead a long time

[7:34] and come back. So well they they might

[7:37] have but they don't remember where they

[7:38] were or who they were before

[7:41] uh except in very rare cases. Um

[7:45] one of the ways that we know that is by

[7:48] virtue of the fact that

[7:51] uh you've heard the expression at death

[7:55] when people have come very very close to

[7:57] death. They've had this what they call a

[7:59] near-death experience. in that

[8:01] near-death experience. Sometimes they'll

[8:03] say something like, uh, the way it'll

[8:05] come across is something like, uh, wow,

[8:09] I I just reviewed my entire life and I

[8:12] did it in seconds. And you go, that's

[8:14] not possible. But it is. And the reason

[8:18] why is because during your life, what

[8:22] you're doing is you're first off, you're

[8:24] creating time and you're creating space.

[8:27] And those two things when they're

[8:28] married together get a location and that

[8:32] location never changes and that event

[8:34] never goes away. It's always it's there

[8:36] permanently.

[8:38] >> So when something happens and you react

[8:42] a certain way that gives the location

[8:45] and then it gives the time specific time

[8:48] date exactly when and where. So it's

[8:51] like welding two wires together in a

[8:54] matrix

[8:55] >> and over time you're building this ton

[8:58] strut

[8:59] >> that looks very much like a wire diagram

[9:02] >> but it's held together only with that

[9:04] tack weld. The tack weld being your

[9:06] experience.

[9:07] >> Okay.

[9:08] >> So when you cease to be living and

[9:12] you're going into death and you suddenly

[9:17] have this epiphany. Well, what's

[9:20] happening is you come to understand

[9:23] at every one of those intersections all

[9:26] the experience behind it that other

[9:28] people had and some of those other

[9:30] people are you.

[9:33] >> Okay. You find out that you may have

[9:35] shared your life over three rebirths

[9:39] with the same seven people or the same

[9:41] 10 people or whatever. So it becomes

[9:45] very meaningful to you when you realize

[9:48] what all those experiences are. It it

[9:51] just fills in very rapidly. Yeah.

[9:53] >> That's that's why you can say that I rel

[9:57] uh relived my whole life

[9:59] >> and uh

[10:00] >> Yeah.

[10:01] >> You understand?

[10:02] >> Yeah. Absolutely. And I know you've had

[10:04] multiple near-death experiences and and

[10:06] this is something I've I've gone back

[10:08] through a lot of, you know, ancient

[10:10] stories like early near-death

[10:12] experiences.

[10:13] >> And it's remarkable how similar the

[10:15] phenomenology is, even when you're

[10:17] looking at, you know, the ancient world,

[10:19] like the the old one of the oldest ones

[10:20] I know about is do you know about the

[10:22] myth of from Plato's Republic? Mhm.

[10:24] >> Um, so for for the audience, I've talked

[10:26] about it a lot of times on the channel

[10:28] because it's just an unbelievably

[10:30] important myth, you know, that talks

[10:32] about the whole kind of afterlife

[10:34] process. And, you know, a lot of people

[10:37] don't know there in western esotericism.

[10:40] There there is reincarnation. It's not

[10:42] just an eastern idea. It is a western

[10:44] idea, too.

[10:45] >> And one of the things they describe,

[10:48] >> you know, is the soul going through this

[10:49] process that sounds very similar to a

[10:52] lot of modern near-death experiencers.

[10:55] But one of the things they talk about

[10:56] that really gets to the point that you

[10:58] just made is that there's this different

[11:00] kind of perception. It's like an they

[11:02] call it like an almost 360 degree kind

[11:04] of awareness.

[11:07] >> And they'll say things like sight, but

[11:10] it you can tell they don't really need

[11:12] sight. It's just like some kind of

[11:14] >> more all-encompassing awareness that we

[11:16] don't normally have. sort of like like a

[11:20] expanded mind kind of I don't know like

[11:22] psychedelic knowing that I I can't

[11:25] >> I don't know what it's like cuz I

[11:26] haven't been in that experience

[11:28] >> but as as hard as it probably is to

[11:31] describe this is a topic I wanted to get

[11:33] into with you anyway.

[11:34] >> Yeah.

[11:35] >> What what is that experience really like

[11:39] when you're when you're so close to to

[11:42] the other side? Well, it's the reason

[11:45] it's a different perception is because

[11:47] we're bringing to bear all of our

[11:50] abilities in terms of how we perceive

[11:53] things. Uh normally in in life the the

[11:57] way we operate is we believe that we

[12:00] only have a certain set of senses.

[12:02] >> Mhm. Now we have sight, hearing, taste,

[12:04] touch,

[12:07] emotions kind of a sense, but we don't

[12:09] really beyond that. We don't really many

[12:12] people don't believe they have anything

[12:14] else. You don't it's more

[12:17] >> we're more like animals than you think.

[12:19] Okay, that kind of thing. When in fact,

[12:22] what we really have is we have uh a ton

[12:26] of different senses that we don't know

[12:28] about. So

[12:30] when we when we're in that that

[12:34] near-death experience,

[12:36] uh first off, we we believe we're not in

[12:39] contact with our body anymore. Secondly,

[12:43] because of that, uh our senses are

[12:46] confusing.

[12:47] Uh the touch sense, for instance, is an

[12:51] all consuming touch. It's not just the

[12:54] spot you touch.

[12:56] Uh it's kind of like in remote viewing

[12:59] they say in remote viewing it's remote

[13:02] viewing which implies it's seeing

[13:04] >> right

[13:05] >> it's never seeing it's just a different

[13:07] form of perception.

[13:10] Uh they say remote viewing because it

[13:12] comes across that way. Uh the

[13:15] perceptions do but you have to learn a

[13:18] whole different way of analyzing the

[13:21] input that you're getting. The mistake a

[13:24] lot of people make when they hear about

[13:27] remote viewing is they say, "Well, okay,

[13:30] I'm going to remote view, I don't know,

[13:32] the a box in the corner." So, they do

[13:34] this.

[13:37] >> They cover their eyes because they're

[13:39] trying to get a visual of what's in the

[13:41] box. When as soon as you do that, you

[13:44] shut down your hearing, your taste, your

[13:46] smell. You touch you just shut down

[13:48] everything else.

[13:49] >> Yeah. So, there's no way that is what

[13:52] remote viewing entails. Remote viewing

[13:55] is more like when you're

[13:58] uh daydreaming. Uh you're like getting

[14:02] ready to go on vacation. You're sitting

[14:04] in your office and you're thinking about

[14:07] that place and you're there. You're

[14:09] really there and you're going, "Oh, wow.

[14:12] This is going to be so great, this

[14:14] vacation." And then somebody snaps their

[14:16] fingers in front of your faces.

[14:18] >> Earth to Joe. worth to Joe.

[14:20] >> Yeah.

[14:20] >> You know, and you come back in the room,

[14:22] it's like, wow, you were daydreaming or

[14:25] something. That's what they usually say.

[14:27] >> Well, that's remote viewing.

[14:28] >> Yes.

[14:29] >> But you're there with all the senses,

[14:32] including even the ones that aren't so

[14:35] >> uh so commonly known.

[14:37] >> Yeah.

[14:38] >> Like um

[14:41] emotional connections,

[14:43] >> that sort of thing. There's just so many

[14:46] different senses that we don't even know

[14:48] what they all are.

[14:50] >> Yeah. Yeah. I've talked to a couple of

[14:52] other people who were in the Stargate

[14:54] program at at this point.

[14:55] >> And um I I know there's I've sadly come

[14:59] to to to learn that there are like these

[15:01] sort of thieftdubs with it within that

[15:03] fraternity of people who associate with

[15:05] each other and people who who don't and

[15:06] have different opinions on things. But

[15:08] one of the things that I I heard was

[15:11] from Lynn Buchanan and he said that in

[15:15] his experience the strongest experiences

[15:17] were always of others emotions

[15:19] >> and he would often get tasked to try to

[15:21] tap into people's thought process or

[15:24] emotional process.

[15:25] >> Um

[15:26] >> and I would imagine that that's

[15:28] something that can be extremely

[15:31] taxing on your own psyche. Like if you

[15:33] if you're really tapping into some

[15:35] madman's thought process and you're

[15:37] doing that successfully, it seems like

[15:39] that could almost infect the remote

[15:41] viewer or take a big toll on the remote

[15:43] viewer.

[15:43] >> Initially, it can. The the problem is

[15:46] that that most people believe I think

[15:50] they believe that when they're in that

[15:52] space or in that place where they're in

[15:56] full contact or in someone's feeling as

[16:00] an example or in their emotion of what

[16:04] what they're experiencing that's going

[16:07] on and they're being targeted for that

[16:10] specific thing. They get a sense that um

[16:14] that they're sharing the same person's

[16:16] or you they're sharing the same

[16:18] experience a person's having.

[16:20] >> Yes.

[16:20] >> It's just a shadow of it. It we we are

[16:24] incapable as viewers to get into

[16:27] anybody's mind. We can't see through

[16:30] their eyes. We can't know what they're

[16:32] thinking. All we can do is report on the

[16:35] things that tell us what they're

[16:38] probably doing.

[16:39] >> Yeah. the same as though we're sitting

[16:41] in a room with somebody and watching.

[16:44] There is a number of times when I've

[16:46] been filmed doing remote viewing on

[16:48] different shows and at at that point the

[16:53] person that they have targeted me

[16:56] against uh I've been targeted on that

[16:59] person just to get me to that place so I

[17:01] can describe the place what's going on.

[17:05] Well, when they see that being played

[17:07] back or they see my sketches, they

[17:09] automatically assume

[17:12] this guy's inside my head and he's

[17:14] looking through my eyes. And if he's

[17:16] doing that, he knows everything that I'm

[17:18] thinking.

[17:19] >> Okay? And they panic and it's like, "No,

[17:23] it never happens. There's just no way.

[17:25] That's too invasive."

[17:27] Um, some of the people in Stargate

[17:30] believe that you can actually uh hurt

[17:33] people. Yeah, with

[17:34] >> the mind that's an impossibility. It's

[17:38] never going to happen. And the reason

[17:40] why is because we are

[17:43] in the ownership of our soul and body.

[17:47] We are sovereign. There is no way

[17:50] anybody can affect us anyway

[17:54] >> unless we ask for it.

[17:56] >> Interesting.

[17:57] >> So if you pray for somebody that they're

[18:00] healed, if you haven't asked them if

[18:03] that's Okay. They're not getting any

[18:06] healing out of it.

[18:07] >> Yeah.

[18:08] >> If you target them to hurt them,

[18:11] if they haven't given you permission, it

[18:14] won't you can target them till the cows

[18:16] come home. That's going to happen. This

[18:18] was the prime the primary drive behind

[18:22] the Russians unit that went on for

[18:26] 35 or 40 years.

[18:28] >> Yeah. Who who was the psychic Russian

[18:30] woman who supposedly stopped the the

[18:33] frog's heart?

[18:34] >> Oh, that's uh I

[18:37] I'm not going to be able to remember a

[18:38] name.

[18:39] >> I'll be able to in post I'll be able to

[18:40] put her up on the screen. But but yeah,

[18:42] that that was one of the things that

[18:44] that really freaked out the military

[18:46] brats, right? Because they thought if

[18:48] they can do this

[18:49] >> and we don't and we don't understand how

[18:51] any of this psychical warfare stuff

[18:54] works, that's really not a good thing,

[18:56] right? Well, uh um the problem here is

[19:00] that she was within one meter of the

[19:03] targets.

[19:03] >> Okay.

[19:04] >> So, it was an interaction between her

[19:06] body fields and whatever she was

[19:08] targeting on the table.

[19:10] >> So, do you think that's possible or

[19:12] >> Oh, sure. I mean, if if I come up behind

[19:15] you and put my hand on the back of your

[19:17] neck, then I can possibly generate an

[19:21] energy field that can do something with

[19:23] your energy field. But in terms of

[19:26] harming someone remotely,

[19:29] uh the Russ I don't know if you know

[19:31] know this, but I I went to Russia two or

[19:34] three times with Ed May,

[19:36] >> Dr. May.

[19:37] >> Mhm.

[19:37] >> And uh we we got into their unit. We

[19:41] were introduced to their psychics. Uh we

[19:44] saw their entire layout. Uh it's right

[19:48] outside of Moscow. It's a uh a DACA

[19:52] there. It's got a palis shade fence

[19:54] around it. You can't see over or see

[19:56] through it. They have two de uh

[19:59] deprivation chambers underground.

[20:03] Uh they have an operational center just

[20:05] like we had. And they also had 104

[20:08] psychics.

[20:09] >> Wow. and the 104 psychics because

[20:13] they were able to target mice and affect

[20:16] the mice. They assumed that you could

[20:19] target people and do the same thing.

[20:22] Well, first off, they could only affect

[20:25] the mice because it was a

[20:28] um it was a an experiment that had a

[20:32] giant hole in it. Okay.

[20:34] Uh while the experiment was run three

[20:37] times and worked fabulously well,

[20:41] uh the difficulty was they told the guy

[20:43] in the very beginning when the mice were

[20:46] sorted why they were sorting the mice.

[20:49] >> And what that what that man did is he

[20:52] sorted them to give them the answer they

[20:54] wanted to see at the end.

[20:56] >> He was the only psychic in the whole

[20:58] event.

[20:59] >> Okay.

[21:00] >> You understand? So, so a psychic

[21:02] essentially pre-selected the mice that

[21:04] would have a bad outcome from this

[21:06] result.

[21:06] >> Prove the bad outcome. Exactly.

[21:09] >> Because they told them why they were

[21:11] sorting them.

[21:12] >> So, it it kind of goes to the same

[21:14] problem with let's say our

[21:16] pharmaceutical companies. And our

[21:18] pharmaceutical companies sometimes we

[21:21] they will uh produce a uh a drug that's

[21:25] supposed to help and it does the exact

[21:27] opposite.

[21:28] >> Yeah. and it hurts people. So they pull

[21:31] it off the shelf and they complain,

[21:33] "Well, we just lost a billion dollars

[21:36] developing this over 12 years." Well,

[21:39] the reason why is because they have

[21:42] actual psychics operating in their lab

[21:45] >> really,

[21:45] >> but because they don't accept it as

[21:47] being true, they don't care. And it's it

[21:52] it's mistakes made in the the uh double

[21:56] blind procedure of the process.

[21:59] Uh in the case of the Russians, they

[22:02] they

[22:03] told this place that breeds mice, so

[22:07] they're all genetically the same.

[22:09] >> They said, uh we need 12 control mice

[22:12] and 12 target mice, and you should do

[22:16] that with a random generator. And when

[22:18] you get the number for whatever the

[22:21] target mice are

[22:22] >> or the control mice, just shave their

[22:24] little bellies and tattoo it on their

[22:26] their bellies, which they did. This guy

[22:30] did. And then he put them all in the

[22:31] cage and sent them to the Euro

[22:33] Mountains. They targeted the cage for

[22:36] six or seven months. And when the

[22:39] anxiety was raised on the target mice

[22:41] alone, they they said they had finished

[22:44] that they had done it. They sent the

[22:46] mice to an independent lab where they

[22:48] were check for uh the the rise in

[22:53] anxiety and it matched exactly the 10

[22:57] top I'm sorry they listed them highest

[23:01] anxiety to lowest and drew a line in the

[23:04] center 12 above 12 below. The top 12

[23:07] were all the target mice

[23:10] >> while the guy pushing the button was

[23:12] sorting them to give them target mice at

[23:16] the end.

[23:16] >> Okay.

[23:17] >> You understand?

[23:17] >> Yeah.

[23:18] >> Because they told him why he was

[23:19] sorting.

[23:21] >> They did that three times and they made

[23:23] that same mistake three times.

[23:25] >> Wow. Now in pharmaceutical company work,

[23:29] you know, they can be operating double

[23:31] blind as well, but if they tell the

[23:33] person who's supposed to be completely

[23:35] blind why they're doing something and

[23:38] they happen to be very psychic, they're

[23:40] going to give them the answer they want

[23:42] to see, not the one that's real. H. So

[23:46] on this point of psychics within

[23:48] pharmaceutical companies, are you saying

[23:51] that the outcome of the efficacy of the

[23:54] drug is unconsciously influenced? Yes.

[23:57] >> Psychically or they or they purposefully

[24:00] hire psychics who are

[24:02] >> here's the problem.

[24:03] >> Okay.

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[25:32] >> Psychics within pharmaceutical

[25:33] companies, are you saying that the

[25:36] outcome of the efficacy of the drug is

[25:39] unconsciously influenced? Yes.

[25:42] >> Psychically or they or they purposefully

[25:44] hire psychics who are

[25:46] >> here's the problem.

[25:47] >> Okay,

[25:48] >> even if it were true, I'm not going to

[25:50] believe it.

[25:52] >> So, sitting next to me is psychic as

[25:55] hell. Okay.

[25:56] >> So, he's he's setting it up so that the

[26:00] answer I want to see in a year

[26:02] >> is is the answer that's going to tell me

[26:05] that this drug works.

[26:08] >> Okay.

[26:09] >> Yeah.

[26:09] >> So, so they're kind of looping over all

[26:11] the testing.

[26:12] >> So, it's like psychic overlay sort of

[26:15] things happening. This is something you

[26:16] hear about with remote viewing

[26:18] sometimes. Like,

[26:18] >> well, human beings are all psychic. So,

[26:22] >> that's what happens. And you can deny it

[26:24] all you want, but it's going to bite you

[26:26] if you're not looking for it.

[26:29] >> How strong do you think that effect is?

[26:32] Because you could like I I've thought

[26:33] about you know if you if you go back to

[26:35] you know when humans lived in smaller

[26:37] tribal communities let's say

[26:39] >> I would think that this psychical

[26:43] bond between those people would be very

[26:45] very strong to a level where they might

[26:47] almost have a different

[26:49] >> perception of reality than a different

[26:52] >> group of people. And then I think to

[26:54] myself, is that why you have all of

[26:56] these different spiritual traditions?

[26:58] Because maybe the way

[27:00] >> different groups that were living closer

[27:02] together and closer to nature really

[27:04] were perceiving these things. But then

[27:06] when you get a really large group of

[27:08] people where you have all these

[27:09] different psychical

[27:11] >> predilictions and ideas about reality

[27:13] intermixing it, it eventually sort of

[27:16] dissolves into this one kind of

[27:19] collective blob or something. I don't

[27:21] know. You know what I'm saying?

[27:22] you you really are combining two things

[27:25] here that don't go together.

[27:27] >> Okay.

[27:27] >> Okay. The first thing is

[27:30] uh when humans were first

[27:35] arriving here as humans

[27:38] um one of the problems we had is we had

[27:40] no language. We couldn't write. We

[27:43] couldn't read. So there's no references

[27:46] that we're learning. But in order for a

[27:49] small tribe of people and they were very

[27:51] small, usually family type units

[27:54] >> Mhm.

[27:54] >> Uh they might have uh kidnapped women

[27:57] out of another tribe or something uh to

[28:00] inadvertently keep the gene pool

[28:03] cleaner. But uh these small groups of

[28:06] humans uh the men hunted, the women

[28:09] gathered. Well, you got to remember they

[28:12] were hunting and gathering in a world

[28:14] that was extremely dangerous. Uh, I

[28:17] believe the saber-tooth tiger was around

[28:19] when humans were around.

[28:20] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[28:21] >> And haunted humans. So, and the cave

[28:24] bear. Cave bear. Average cave bear maybe

[28:28] 2,000 to 2400 lb.

[28:30] >> Yeah.

[28:31] >> You know, 13 ft tall and pretty nasty

[28:34] about which cave this is, that kind of

[28:37] thing. So, uh, in order for them to

[28:41] coordinate a hunt or coordinate

[28:43] gathering and be safe, they had to have

[28:47] some form of communication. I believe we

[28:50] were reading each other's minds back

[28:52] then that we came into the world and

[28:56] could understand by how people were

[28:59] doing what they were doing, what they

[29:02] were mean to do. Uh an example would be

[29:07] uh any other animal that's a predator, a

[29:10] cat, uh a wolf, they all can read the

[29:15] signs by the way their fur is by the way

[29:18] they

[29:18] >> they look what they look at all these

[29:21] different things. So we were ultra

[29:24] sensitive and in order to survive we are

[29:26] operated that way.

[29:28] uh you could say that that that is a

[29:32] bleedth through in the psychic world. So

[29:35] >> the problem comes in when you have that

[29:39] small tribal unit where everybody knows

[29:41] everybody and they trust everybody and

[29:44] they bring in a second tribal unit. So

[29:47] when the groups became larger. So,

[29:50] you're sitting across the fire from

[29:52] somebody one night and he's he's kind of

[29:54] given the eye to your spear and your

[29:57] woman and he's there's nothing's going

[30:00] to prevent him from coming across the

[30:02] the fire and

[30:04] >> cutting your throat or there's nothing

[30:06] to prevent you from going across the

[30:08] fire and killing him.

[30:10] >> Yeah.

[30:10] >> Well, mother nature has this way of

[30:13] fixing things otherwise he wouldn't be

[30:15] here.

[30:16] >> Yeah. And I suspect that's when we

[30:19] started getting filters of some kind

[30:22] >> installed in our in our brain maybe in

[30:26] the colossum where the information's

[30:28] transferred or what whatever.

[30:30] >> Oh yeah, the corpus colos somewhere in

[30:33] the the human mind. Uh these filters

[30:36] started making us work at getting the

[30:39] information.

[30:40] >> Do you think over time we just lost the

[30:42] capacity.

[30:43] >> Yeah. Not to like bring this to the

[30:45] most, you know, cartoonish

[30:47] conspiratorial level, but do you think

[30:49] there's any possibility that maybe it

[30:52] was selected against for humans? Like it

[30:56] was somehow externally these abilities

[31:00] were dampened by some external.

[31:03] >> I think we have them as children. I

[31:05] think we're born with them.

[31:07] >> The problem is we don't acknowledge it

[31:10] because we don't even think about it.

[31:12] What we do is we teach kids how to use

[31:15] processing, appropriate processing. What

[31:19] good processing is, what bad processing

[31:21] is. So when you expose someone to remote

[31:26] viewing, the reason and the way they

[31:28] become very very good at it over time is

[31:31] they understand that they have to uh

[31:35] unlearn the bad habits they developed at

[31:38] birth

[31:39] coming forward. So they it's really hard

[31:42] to destroy habits

[31:44] >> and replace them with new habits.

[31:46] >> Yes.

[31:47] >> But people who let's say

[31:51] um live a process where they're they're

[31:56] growing for many many years in a hostile

[31:59] area

[32:01] uh or doing a job that they could die

[32:04] doing like an undercover agent or a

[32:07] police officer undercover or something

[32:09] like that. Yeah,

[32:11] >> their psychic ability starts coming to

[32:13] the four because it's the one tool that

[32:16] they need that sorts them from anybody

[32:19] else and keeps them alive. So

[32:23] it it becomes of benefit.

[32:26] >> Definitely.

[32:26] >> Yeah.

[32:27] >> So you unlearn the bad habits and you

[32:30] relearn the new the good habits and the

[32:33] psychic power comes back.

[32:36] uh where you have scientists today in

[32:38] many cases and no way am I believing

[32:42] this psychic stuff. It's just not real.

[32:45] It's a total bizarre thing. And so

[32:49] because I refuse to acknowledge it, I of

[32:53] course am not seeing where it's bleeding

[32:55] through in some experiment or something

[32:59] else that uh is important like that

[33:03] development of a drug to cure something.

[33:07] >> Yeah, it totally makes sense that this

[33:08] is like a latent capacity that adds to

[33:11] your evolutionary fitness tremendously.

[33:14] like you you talk about this in your

[33:16] memoir, how you know how you learned to

[33:19] listen to that voice

[33:21] >> um when you were overseas, but you even

[33:22] had it from a young age growing up in a

[33:24] rough neighborhood in Miami and

[33:26] everything.

[33:27] >> Um but I I

[33:28] >> I wanted to add one additional thing.

[33:30] >> Yeah. The other part of what you started

[33:33] with, you were saying that maybe the way

[33:37] certain people fell into certain

[33:39] spiritual groups which created perhaps

[33:42] religious denominations that kind of

[33:44] thing. Um I would agree with that but

[33:49] only to a certain extent. I think the

[33:52] reason we have multiple de denominations

[33:55] and we have multiple churches and

[33:58] multiple teachings and everything has to

[34:01] do with power over humans.

[34:04] >> That's other humans having power over

[34:07] greater bodies of of humans.

[34:10] >> Definitely. um they share a common idea

[34:14] and some get it right, some get it

[34:16] wrong, but I think that's all it has to

[34:19] do with is just a job you could have

[34:22] where you're telling others

[34:24] >> Yeah. the way

[34:25] >> they're going to live.

[34:26] >> Yeah. I feel the same way about

[34:28] organized religion. And it seems like it

[34:30] always starts out from someone's direct

[34:33] experience, right? But then it grows

[34:34] into this big bureaucratic

[34:37] mechanism that eventually controls a lot

[34:39] of people and and whatever the direct

[34:41] experience is either becomes secondary

[34:43] or they try to prevent you from having

[34:45] one because they don't want you breaking

[34:46] off and starting your own thing.

[34:48] >> Yeah. I I agree and and but the problem

[34:53] is sometimes they're very good at what

[34:56] they do.

[34:57] >> Mhm.

[34:57] >> And they help people. So, you know,

[35:00] >> Yes, for sure.

[35:00] >> I

[35:02] that's fine with me. They can go have

[35:04] all the religious experiences they want.

[35:06] >> Yeah.

[35:07] >> My religion's right out the door.

[35:09] >> Yeah.

[35:09] >> You know, everything God created, it's

[35:11] right outside.

[35:12] >> Well said. Well said. So, I want to pick

[35:14] up on a little thing that you said

[35:16] before that a lot of people might might

[35:17] not have noticed, but having heard many

[35:20] of your conversations and read some of

[35:22] your books,

[35:23] >> um, you said when humans arrived here

[35:25] before when you were talking about

[35:27] >> ancient man, what did you mean by that?

[35:30] And and what is your view on because

[35:32] this gets to one of the original

[35:34] questions of you know

[35:35] >> not only what is going on here in an

[35:37] individual sense but like what is the

[35:39] human project like what what is a human

[35:41] being

[35:42] >> what are we doing here

[35:43] >> and for you I think you have an opinion

[35:45] on that question that

[35:46] >> oh yeah

[35:47] >> um

[35:49] >> uh because of the numbers of targets

[35:51] that I did in my lifetime

[35:54] >> and some of the things I looked into

[35:57] that were mysteries that the DoD wanted

[35:59] solved. M

[36:01] >> um the conclusion I came to just based

[36:04] on input

[36:06] uh input from the double blind targets

[36:10] um I have a sense that we're not

[36:12] originally from this planet. So when

[36:15] people talk about aliens, we should be

[36:17] talking about ourselves.

[36:18] >> Yeah. Uh, I think the inhabitants, the

[36:22] entities that that own this planet have

[36:26] been sharing it with us for millions of

[36:28] years. And uh, in our arrogance of

[36:31] thinking that we're the only smart thing

[36:34] on the planet,

[36:36] that's a mistake.

[36:37] >> Yeah. They they could be um they could

[36:42] completely exist and subsist on

[36:48] uh the water. They could be in the water

[36:50] 100% of the time. That's where I would

[36:53] be if I own this planet.

[36:56] >> Yeah. You hear that there's a tremendous

[36:58] amount of UFO activity coming out of the

[37:00] deep ocean

[37:01] >> and there's 65% of our planet is water.

[37:04] So,

[37:06] uh, no, I wouldn't be on the surface of

[37:09] the earth with 65% water. Um, that that

[37:14] would be, I think, an error. But,

[37:17] >> yeah.

[37:17] >> Uh,

[37:18] >> and even now that deep the deep deep

[37:20] water is so inhospitable to humans. We,

[37:22] I mean, we have to, you know, these like

[37:26] extraordinarily strong airtight

[37:29] containers and, you know, it's people

[37:31] still die doing that. It's incredibly

[37:33] dangerous work to go down to the deep

[37:35] ocean and try to explore down there. So

[37:37] yeah, if you could figure out how to be

[37:39] comfortable down there, you could stay

[37:42] hidden very

[37:44] >> you're in a machine you built that you

[37:46] hope can withstand

[37:49] 150,000 lbs per cubic centimeter or

[37:53] something

[37:54] uh and survive

[37:56] where in their case they probably live

[38:00] there because they've developed a way of

[38:02] creating a place within a place.

[38:05] >> Yeah. In other words, they're not even

[38:07] in that reality.

[38:09] >> They're in a different reality bubble of

[38:12] some kind. Um, it's kind of like

[38:17] how how did they get here in the first

[38:19] place?

[38:20] You know, uh they might this might be

[38:24] the true inhabitants of Earth might be

[38:27] from another Earth somewhere around

[38:29] another star

[38:31] and getting here required

[38:34] uh not not travel by spaceship.

[38:37] >> Yeah.

[38:38] >> Uh for a lot of reasons. You got cosmic

[38:42] radiation. You've got uh the need for

[38:45] fuel. You got the need for speed. You

[38:48] got the need. It's one thing after

[38:50] another that complicates it,

[38:53] >> but I think just jumping from one star

[38:56] to the other and instantaneously is the

[39:00] only way we're ever going to achieve it.

[39:02] >> Yeah.

[39:02] >> Um,

[39:04] >> also I think that that's true from the

[39:08] very standpoint that statistically

[39:10] there's 700 billion billion stars out

[39:14] there.

[39:15] You know, it's it's like ridiculous to

[39:18] think we're the only intelligent and

[39:20] >> absolutely. And then you bring in the

[39:22] the further complexity of another thing

[39:25] every mystical tradition agreed on is is

[39:28] this physical realm is kind of like a

[39:29] veneer on the surface of the a much

[39:32] deeper reality where are these you know

[39:34] whether you're looking at you know the

[39:36] eastern um tradition you're talking

[39:38] about devas or uh you know in the the

[39:41] Greco Roman tradition you're talking

[39:43] about angels donese different levels of

[39:46] deities and you know the from a modern

[39:50] perspective people like John He'll come

[39:51] in with the ultraterrestrial hypothesis.

[39:53] They're talking about there are these

[39:55] extended layers of reality. We don't

[39:57] know how to sense. And if you're trying

[40:00] to explain UFOs from a nuts andbolts

[40:02] perspective, you're never going to get

[40:03] it because these things are not

[40:04] primarily physical to begin. So, and you

[40:07] add all of that with the many billions

[40:09] of stars and yeah, trying to figure out

[40:11] what might be going on here is is so

[40:14] complicated.

[40:14] >> Yeah. And and these entities, I'm sure,

[40:17] are half a million years ahead of us.

[40:21] Yeah.

[40:21] >> So,

[40:22] >> so we this idea that we are not

[40:25] originally from here and and you said

[40:28] the the DoD wanted to know this. Can you

[40:31] can you show

[40:31] >> I didn't want to know that specifically.

[40:33] >> Okay. Okay.

[40:34] >> They

[40:34] >> something you gleaned

[40:35] >> I don't I don't have a clue what they

[40:37] were really after. Okay. Um I was here

[40:40] working with Bob Monroe for a long

[40:43] weekends for quite a few months. Uh I

[40:47] was tasked with being with uh needing to

[40:51] learn how to generate an out of body.

[40:54] >> Yeah.

[40:54] >> And go to a target in the out of body

[40:56] state.

[40:57] >> Uh sounds easy if you can generate an

[41:00] out of body. It's not. Especially when

[41:04] you're doing blind targets. Uh they can

[41:06] show you a building and say nothing

[41:08] about it in a photograph.

[41:11] But finding that building, the out of

[41:12] body state might take two and a half

[41:15] weeks of generating out of bodies. Wow.

[41:18] >> And looking because you don't know where

[41:20] it is.

[41:21] >> Yeah.

[41:21] >> Um finding it, it then becomes a uh

[41:25] significant problem in whether or not

[41:28] you can actually enter that building in

[41:31] the out body state because you don't

[41:33] know if you can or can't. So there's a

[41:35] lot of things you have to try.

[41:37] >> Mhm. and and then when you finally are

[41:40] able to enter it and apply it to some

[41:45] targeted area and learn about it and

[41:49] bring it back and try to replicate it

[41:51] was sketching and drawing.

[41:53] >> Yeah,

[41:53] >> there's that deficiencies,

[41:55] >> right?

[41:55] >> And within that whole matrix of action

[41:58] over I think it took uh three and a half

[42:02] weeks to do one target. That's inc. I

[42:05] mean,

[42:05] >> yeah,

[42:06] >> to me it's absolutely incredible because

[42:08] I've I've only ever had one OBBE. It was

[42:10] here actually the last day of my gateway

[42:14] retreat.

[42:15] >> I didn't think I was I was coming even

[42:17] close. The closest I got is, you know,

[42:19] they're trying to train you to feel

[42:21] these waves and vibrations and stuff.

[42:24] >> I felt that. I definitely felt that and

[42:26] I convinced myself, yeah, I'm I'm

[42:28] feeling that. I'm feeling that. But for

[42:30] me, it was totally I tell people I

[42:32] slipped on a banana peel and wound up

[42:34] out of my body because it was literally

[42:37] like I was doing a really one of the

[42:38] really long meditations like hour

[42:40] hourish long one where you're going

[42:42] through each focus level.

[42:43] >> Yeah.

[42:44] >> I clicked out.

[42:45] >> Suddenly I was having an incredibly

[42:47] lucid experience where I was just

[42:48] standing in a different room

[42:50] >> and I was looking out a window and to

[42:52] this day I don't know if it's a window

[42:54] of a place that's really here or

[42:56] somewhere else. And then I started

[42:58] going, "How the hell did I get to this

[42:59] room?"

[43:00] >> Right?

[43:00] >> And I'm like,

[43:02] >> "No, wait. I'm meditating." And as soon

[43:03] as I thought that, I was back in the bed

[43:05] and the vibrations were going crazy.

[43:08] >> And I tried to sit up and I went,

[43:09] "Whoop!" And the fear hit really strong

[43:13] >> and I just started panicking. And in the

[43:15] back of my mind, I was like, "At least

[43:16] turn around and look at yourself."

[43:18] >> Yeah. What was giving you the fear?

[43:20] >> You know, it's it wasn't intellectual. I

[43:22] I tell people it was like, you know,

[43:25] imagine I was telling you about water,

[43:27] but you never have been swimming.

[43:29] >> Okay.

[43:30] >> Versus I I just throw you in the water,

[43:32] right? It's like that it's just so

[43:34] different than what you think it's going

[43:35] to be

[43:36] >> that I just and and I couldn't control

[43:38] it. So, it was just it was

[43:39] >> it just felt like this rush of vibrating

[43:42] energy that was coming up and I couldn't

[43:44] control it and everything in me started

[43:47] to go like get no this is bad. I mean,

[43:49] it's cartoonishly like what Bob talks

[43:52] about in his first book where he freaked

[43:54] out when he first went out of body. It

[43:55] was the same kind of fear, just like an

[43:57] existential

[43:58] >> kind of fear. And that's the only time

[44:00] I've ever I've ever done it.

[44:03] >> The uh what what's fascinating to me is

[44:08] that there is a distinct difference in

[44:12] who we think we are when we're in our

[44:14] bodies versus out of our bodies. And

[44:17] when we're out of body, if let's say

[44:20] it's the third time or the fourth time

[44:23] and you you become adept at being able

[44:25] to do it. Okay. So, at that point when

[44:30] you're backing out,

[44:32] um there's a crystal chandelier hanging

[44:34] from the ceiling and you back into the

[44:36] crystal chandelier. It's a distraction

[44:39] of major gargantuan

[44:41] interference because now you're like,

[44:44] "Oh, yeah."

[44:47] >> You could spend hours in that crystal sh

[44:50] cuz the perceptions are so completely

[44:52] different.

[44:53] >> Yeah.

[44:54] >> Um when I did find the target they

[44:56] wanted me to find, I uh had to pass

[45:00] through a a vault door. It was like a

[45:02] bank vault door. So, it's very thick

[45:05] steel, maybe 6 in deep. And as I was

[45:09] passing through that, I could actually

[45:12] feel the interaction of my molecules

[45:16] with the steel molecules and it felt

[45:19] really weird.

[45:20] >> And so, I'm I'm now inside the the

[45:23] thing, but I'm looking at that vault

[45:26] door and I'm like, that was really cool.

[45:29] So, I passed through it going out.

[45:31] I pass through it coming in and pass

[45:34] through it going out. So I probably

[45:36] spent 45 minutes playing with a door.

[45:39] >> Wow.

[45:39] >> You know, and then it was like, well,

[45:42] wake up and I'm back in my body. It's

[45:44] like

[45:44] >> So, and this is why I even brought my

[45:46] own story up is because I can't imagine

[45:49] controlling that, let alone going and

[45:53] targeting something where I don't even

[45:54] know where it is. Because if I'm

[45:56] assuming the way they're tasking is

[45:58] >> do you know that all blind?

[46:00] >> It's all blind. Yeah. So, you don't even

[46:01] know geographically where you're going.

[46:03] You're following this nebulous psychical

[46:06] sense to get there. But is there is

[46:09] there still a sense of like traveling or

[46:12] are you just there once you home?

[46:14] >> You're just there, but it's a sense that

[46:16] you just got you just there from a long

[46:19] way away.

[46:21] >> Okay. Um

[46:25] to really make a long story short, it

[46:27] took three and a half weeks to do one

[46:29] target. It took me uh probably 30 plus

[46:33] out of bodies, controlled out of bodies

[46:36] I had to generate and use.

[46:39] And the results of my

[46:42] uh what happened and what I reported

[46:46] were

[46:48] somewhat esoteric to a certain degree

[46:51] because of the feelings I was having in

[46:53] the processing.

[46:55] So when everything's said and done,

[46:57] remote viewing, I can get to a target in

[47:00] 3 minutes, you know, it's over. So why

[47:04] go out of body?

[47:05] >> Yeah. Yeah. Unless there's something

[47:08] something else you can perceive or

[47:11] experience through through that versus

[47:13] remote viewing.

[47:14] >> I I gave him their answer and uh they

[47:18] came back two weeks later and said um

[47:22] you don't mind if we ask you some

[47:24] questions? I said no. And he said where

[47:26] did you take high energy physics? And I

[47:28] said I didn't.

[47:29] >> Yeah. Because you drew this device,

[47:31] right, that you Yeah. I' I've

[47:33] >> That sort of thing. So, so yeah, an

[47:36] independent agency said they could

[47:38] duplicate it.

[47:41] It It aggravated me. It, you know, it's

[47:43] like when they start asking you a lot of

[47:45] questions that don't make any sense, you

[47:48] get the feeling like uh they didn't

[47:49] believe anything I did. So,

[47:52] >> it made me want to like it made me want

[47:54] to give them more about this target than

[47:57] they asked for.

[47:58] >> Yeah.

[47:59] >> So, you Yeah.

[48:00] >> It was a It was a copper wire driven

[48:03] target. So, I turned it into an object

[48:06] that uses light fiber

[48:09] >> and I put it all on an acrylic block so

[48:11] it could be cooled with liquid nitrogen

[48:13] running through it, you know, little

[48:15] channels in there. And then I went out

[48:18] and found uh slow build react uh

[48:22] transistors, things like that to make it

[48:26] operate even more efficiently, quicker.

[48:29] and uh drew that, rolled it up, sent it

[48:33] to the same people, and they showed up

[48:35] the next morning and tore the top off my

[48:38] drafting table in case I had pressed

[48:41] through too hard.

[48:42] >> And that's the only time I signed on uh

[48:46] NDA.

[48:47] >> Wow. So, yeah. So, for people that don't

[48:49] know this context, you got asked to

[48:51] remote view this nebulous thing on the

[48:54] other side of some vault door

[48:56] >> and it ended up being this device.

[48:58] You're known for your amazing drawing

[48:59] abilities. So you you draw this thing to

[49:02] the nth degree of precision and it

[49:05] actually made these people freak out

[49:07] because you were so precise in your

[49:09] drawing that they did not want they

[49:11] immediately like basically either

[49:13] classified or took your drawing. Right.

[49:16] >> Well they they took the they took the

[49:18] original drawing but then wanted to know

[49:22] do did I take the high energy physics?

[49:24] going to hierogeny phys uh energy

[49:27] physicist. Uh where do you check your

[49:30] library books out? You know, all this

[49:32] crap that says basically to me,

[49:34] >> we don't believe you really like you

[49:36] made this up.

[49:37] >> You made a good guess. Um

[49:40] >> and so I had to do something to get to

[49:43] get that out of their head. And the way

[49:45] I did that is I just said I made it from

[49:48] copper wire to light fiber and I crush

[49:51] it down about the size of a package of

[49:54] cigarettes when before it was maybe this

[49:57] size.

[49:58] >> Mhm.

[49:59] >> And now it's 10,000 times faster and

[50:02] more efficient. And uh I drew that and

[50:06] sent it to the same people.

[50:08] >> Yeah.

[50:08] >> And they showed up the next day and tore

[50:10] the top off in drafting jail.

[50:12] >> So do you have a sense of what this was?

[50:14] Was it like a directed energy thing?

[50:16] >> Oh, I know exactly what it was.

[50:17] >> Psychotronic thing. What What do you

[50:18] think it was?

[50:20] >> I know exactly what it was, but I can't

[50:22] talk about

[50:22] >> Okay. Am I on the right track?

[50:25] >> Yeah. I signed the NDA.

[50:27] >> Okay. Now, normally I wouldn't if when I

[50:30] was active duty,

[50:33] uh, I had some targets that were very

[50:35] questionable and, uh, I refuse to sign

[50:39] the NDAs because I was a advisor to a

[50:43] three star that in the army that was in

[50:46] charge of all intelligence for the army.

[50:49] >> So, if I signed an NDA, I wouldn't be

[50:51] able to talk to him about something. And

[50:54] I used that as the excuse for not

[50:56] signing. And uh that really got to some

[51:00] people that I just refused adamantly.

[51:03] Um I think that upsets him because he

[51:07] didn't know what I might or might not

[51:09] talk about.

[51:09] >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that that's

[51:12] another thing you hear a lot with people

[51:13] who do what you do and came out of the

[51:16] Stargate program is that they,

[51:18] >> you know, well, one of two things. is

[51:20] they they get asked to do off the books

[51:23] jobs for people that sound very

[51:24] interesting but then they can't say

[51:26] certain details.

[51:27] >> Um but then also

[51:30] >> clearly you'd want to go check out

[51:31] esoteric or you know mysterious topics

[51:34] for yourself to because you're just

[51:35] curious, right?

[51:36] >> Yeah.

[51:37] >> Um

[51:39] >> so I guess in in the spirit of that,

[51:42] >> what is like an example of that that

[51:44] that you're allowed to share since it's

[51:46] well it sounds like that's the only NDA

[51:47] you you signed. So hopefully you can

[51:49] share,

[51:50] >> but what what's an example of something

[51:51] that that you looked into that really

[51:55] surprised you or like changed your

[51:56] understanding of of one of these big

[51:58] topics? Cuz it sounds like for for

[52:00] instance, you know, h human origins

[52:02] sounded like something changed your your

[52:05] opinion of that one.

[52:06] >> Well, yeah. Um human origins, we didn't

[52:11] fall out of trees. We weren't monkeys.

[52:14] Yeah.

[52:14] >> Uh we we're more like a small animal

[52:17] that lived next to water.

[52:19] >> And we we engineered our our lives to

[52:23] operate either in one one area or the

[52:26] other. In other words, we could survive

[52:28] on the land next to the sea or we could

[52:32] survive in the sea next to the land.

[52:35] >> The our predators that we were being

[52:37] victimized by, however, they either had

[52:40] to be in one or the other. So if they

[52:43] were waterborn predators, we spent time,

[52:47] you know, away on the beach to defend

[52:51] ourselves. If they were landbased

[52:53] predators, we spent more time in the

[52:55] water than not.

[52:56] >> Yeah.

[52:56] >> It's the reason why there were virtually

[53:00] no remnants of human, you know, before

[53:03] we were human because the water would be

[53:07] a very powerful destructive force or

[53:09] anything left. Um and but the

[53:15] the real the real answer I think um has

[53:20] to do with uh

[53:23] uh has to do with the longevity of how

[53:25] we've been how how long we've been

[53:27] around.

[53:28] >> Mhm.

[53:29] >> And I think we've actually been on this

[53:31] planet

[53:32] for somewhere around 20 million years.

[53:36] >> Wow.

[53:37] >> Yeah. As humans as we are now. So, if

[53:40] I'm understanding you correctly, it

[53:42] seems like you

[53:44] believe or suspect there was some kind

[53:46] of outside manipulation of an existing

[53:49] >> Absolutely.

[53:49] >> animal, and that's essentially what gave

[53:52] rise to to humans.

[53:53] >> It's and I think they're the ones the

[53:56] entities that rescued us in a sense and

[54:00] brought us here also left us with a

[54:04] certain degree of rules or a certain

[54:08] layer of rules. so that we could uh

[54:11] continue to thrive.

[54:14] Uh but I think they have an expectation

[54:16] that we would mature over time

[54:19] in a specific way.

[54:21] >> Yeah.

[54:22] >> I don't think we did. And as a result,

[54:25] they well we we can't we can't let

[54:28] humans continue, but we don't want to

[54:30] eradicate them, so we'll just knock them

[54:32] back to sticks and stones. And the last

[54:35] time we had that kick back to sticks and

[54:38] stones was a great flood.

[54:39] >> Yeah.

[54:40] >> And it's recorded on every continent.

[54:42] >> Yes, it is.

[54:43] >> That the time before that was probably a

[54:45] seven or 10 10 mile wide asteroid that

[54:49] created the Gulf of Mexico. Uh the third

[54:53] time was probably way back and involved

[54:57] uh something having to do with

[55:00] significant climate of some kind where

[55:03] we couldn't grow food and that knocked

[55:07] us back to sticks and stones. You can

[55:10] only go so far back and now you can't

[55:12] build a manufacturing plant. There's so

[55:15] many things you can't do.

[55:17] >> Yeah. that you have to uh just survive

[55:22] in some way. So,

[55:25] I think we've been doing that.

[55:27] >> Yeah. We've been going through some

[55:28] period of time.

[55:30] >> And what I I've been trying to figure

[55:32] out what it is that we need to mature to

[55:34] that we haven't matured for.

[55:36] >> Yeah. And I suspect it has to do with

[55:40] the fact that in maturing alone we have

[55:44] refused to abdicate our

[55:49] uh our power as humans to do whatever we

[55:52] want.

[55:52] >> Right.

[55:53] >> So new discoveries, what's the first

[55:56] thing we do? We make a weapon.

[55:58] >> Yeah.

[55:58] >> That we can get a leg up on other humans

[56:01] with. Okay.

[56:03] So

[56:04] that's cool for survival on this planet

[56:07] as human, but if we ever want to meet

[56:11] other entities in the cosmos, and I

[56:13] think there's literally millions of

[56:15] them, then we're going to have to reach

[56:19] a point of maturity where when we have a

[56:22] discovery and we can make a terrible

[56:24] weapon out of it,

[56:25] >> we stop and think and come to the

[56:28] conclusion that no, this is something we

[56:31] could live without

[56:33] and in other words we don't continue to

[56:36] pursue it. Um that's a level of maturity

[56:39] I think you have to have to join the the

[56:43] crowd.

[56:44] >> I Yeah, that resonates with

[56:46] >> otherwise you're a threat.

[56:48] >> Yeah.

[56:48] >> And and we became a threat at the same

[56:52] time you have the first two UFOs

[56:55] appearing on the planet. That was the

[56:58] first detonation of an atomic weapon on

[57:02] Trinity site, New Mexico.

[57:04] >> Mhm. Yeah. The Trinity. Yeah.

[57:05] >> And right afterwards, there were a

[57:08] couple UFOs showed up. Since then,

[57:10] anything that that improves, creates, or

[57:15] widens the possibility of the use of

[57:18] nuclear weapons,

[57:20] same thing. More UFOs show up.

[57:22] >> Yes. And and that is a really

[57:24] interesting part of the modern kind of

[57:26] disclosure.

[57:27] >> Yeah.

[57:28] >> Story that I think is a really

[57:29] compelling one because it seems like

[57:30] it's very well documented. There's that

[57:33] >> there's a book called UFOs and Nukes

[57:35] actually by a guy named Hastings

[57:37] >> that is just like exhaustively

[57:39] documented and like receipts you know

[57:42] this person this time this this location

[57:44] and it's over and over and over again.

[57:46] It's it seems to be a real pattern

[57:48] >> and there's kind of two ways to

[57:49] interpret that. Like one way is they're

[57:52] benevolent and they're trying to say,

[57:54] "Hey guys, you need to shut this down."

[57:56] Like no, like or or they're there

[57:59] >> to to like assess threats, right,

[58:02] against them. What What do you think is

[58:04] going on there?

[58:05] >> I

[58:07] I I think we're being monitored.

[58:09] >> Yeah.

[58:10] >> As long as we're a threat, we're being

[58:12] monitored. So I if you got to kind of

[58:15] look at it this way, as long as we can't

[58:17] get off this planet,

[58:20] we're we're not as great a threat.

[58:22] >> Yeah.

[58:23] >> Okay. They can control us if we can't

[58:25] get off this planet. So if we uh if we

[58:30] are looking for a way of uh meeting

[58:33] other entities, the best way would be to

[58:35] learn how to do that jump from one star

[58:38] to another, then you don't even need a

[58:41] spaceship. Okay. you're going from one

[58:43] atmosphere to the other atmosphere.

[58:46] >> Um, if if we can learn to do that,

[58:49] that's when we become a really dynamic

[58:52] threat because then it's uh if we travel

[58:57] from here to some other star, some other

[59:01] star with a planet like Earth around it,

[59:04] >> there's going to be entities on it. And

[59:07] uh we're going to be exceptionally

[59:08] dangerous cuz we're not going to make

[59:10] that jump without a 20 megat ton in the

[59:13] back room.

[59:13] >> Right.

[59:14] >> You know that that's true.

[59:17] >> And and right now we're coming into a

[59:19] period of time where we're adding

[59:22] >> a uh a booster to our intellect which is

[59:26] called AI. Okay.

[59:29] uh that booster may prevent the design

[59:34] the design and construction of that

[59:38] capability to leap. So,

[59:42] >> uh I'm I'm concerned because the the

[59:45] ratio of UFOs that are being reported

[59:49] now and UAPs and all kinds of UFOs, I

[59:52] mean, they're all over the place

[59:54] >> and the and the numbers are growing.

[59:57] That must mean we're getting really

[59:59] close to that point where we're going to

[1:00:01] be a threat again. And uh if if that

[1:00:05] happens, well,

[1:00:08] uh break out the grass skirts and the

[1:00:11] the the

[1:00:12] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can I can see the

[1:00:15] benevolent version and the malevolent

[1:00:17] version because there's um there's an

[1:00:19] author I I love named Peter Levenda

[1:00:21] who's who's done a ton of research in

[1:00:23] this area and he points out how if you

[1:00:26] go back into a lot of the biblical

[1:00:29] stories and a lot of the ancient

[1:00:31] Mesopotamian stories,

[1:00:33] >> things like the flood or the Tower of

[1:00:35] Babel, if you read closely,

[1:00:37] >> they they don't destroy to teach us a

[1:00:39] lesson. They destroy when we're

[1:00:41] encroaching on a territory that they

[1:00:43] don't like.

[1:00:44] >> If you're getting too close to this, we

[1:00:46] don't like that. So, we're going to take

[1:00:47] it down.

[1:00:48] >> And and if you view that not as a

[1:00:50] benevolent god, but as someone that's or

[1:00:52] some presence that's very advanced and

[1:00:54] is monitoring us, it kind of fits, you

[1:00:57] know, and I'm not saying I necessarily

[1:00:59] believe that, but it it does make sense.

[1:01:02] It's it's not it's not a illogical

[1:01:04] argument.

[1:01:05] >> No. And you can't blame them.

[1:01:08] >> Yeah. I mean it but that it does have a

[1:01:12] good side to it. It implies that they

[1:01:16] don't want to eradicate us completely,

[1:01:19] >> right?

[1:01:19] >> They see some value in us.

[1:01:22] >> I don't know what that is yet. I'm still

[1:01:24] working on that. But

[1:01:26] >> uh but but they still do consider us a

[1:01:30] terrible threat. It's the very thing we

[1:01:32] do with the our enemies, you know, the

[1:01:34] Russians, Chinese,

[1:01:36] >> when in fact, uh, I don't think they're

[1:01:41] we're as much a threat as they would

[1:01:44] think. Um,

[1:01:47] uh, I I have a lot of trouble with the

[1:01:50] idea that the Chinese are out to get us.

[1:01:54] >> I think they they have a significant

[1:01:56] problem on their own. They they have to

[1:01:59] control two billion people.

[1:02:01] >> Yes.

[1:02:02] >> Across a planet across the uh a country

[1:02:08] that spans half the world. And

[1:02:12] uh that's getting to be more and more

[1:02:14] difficult because freedoms to do things

[1:02:17] like make more money

[1:02:21] um is encroaching on their ability to

[1:02:23] control.

[1:02:25] uh you know they can still do business

[1:02:27] in in Singapore or Hong Kong

[1:02:31] uh that kind of thing and negotiate in

[1:02:34] money and spend and buy money.

[1:02:37] But that creates a whole different

[1:02:39] class. And so the guy growing the rice

[1:02:42] that keeps this guy from being hungry,

[1:02:45] that guy growing the rice is not making

[1:02:48] anything at all. And you can't even get

[1:02:50] to his village without a motorcycle

[1:02:52] because there's no infrastructure.

[1:02:55] So, it's just a matter of time. Yeah.

[1:02:59] And you'll see China break up into a

[1:03:01] whole lot of different states, you know,

[1:03:03] with individual wars and all that kind

[1:03:06] of stuff.

[1:03:06] >> Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I don't want to get too

[1:03:08] into geopolitics, but it is it is really

[1:03:10] interesting because we, you know, we

[1:03:13] look at a country like China and it's

[1:03:16] crazy how it almost has separated into

[1:03:18] two different universes cuz you have

[1:03:21] these super advanced cities that you

[1:03:22] look at and you're like, whoa, we don't

[1:03:23] even have one city like that.

[1:03:25] >> And then they also still have hundreds

[1:03:27] and hundreds of millions of people who

[1:03:29] are living like in these incredibly

[1:03:32] rural basic lifestyles at the same time.

[1:03:35] It's crazy. Um, so back to the the the

[1:03:40] question about, you know, whatever's

[1:03:42] largely going on here, we should point

[1:03:44] out that we're in Bob's cabin

[1:03:47] >> the day before his 111th birthday, by

[1:03:50] the way.

[1:03:50] >> Oh, that's right.

[1:03:51] >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[1:03:52] >> Um,

[1:03:53] >> and that's why I'm out here for this

[1:03:54] event um that's taking place uh you

[1:03:57] know, this coming this coming together

[1:03:58] event. So, it's really I do want to just

[1:04:00] acknowledge it's really cool to be in

[1:04:02] here with you in Bob's cabin even even

[1:04:04] having this conversation cuz I'm sure

[1:04:06] you and Bob had a lot of conversations

[1:04:08] like this.

[1:04:09] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:04:09] >> Over the years.

[1:04:10] >> His office is in the other wing, but

[1:04:14] >> uh it's basically an L-shaped cabin. The

[1:04:17] uh logs are original American chestnut,

[1:04:20] so they're somewhere in neighborhood of

[1:04:22] 300 300 thou 300 Yeah. 300 years to

[1:04:29] 350 years old.

[1:04:30] >> Cool.

[1:04:31] >> And uh they're all as good as the day

[1:04:33] that they were cut and used. Uh they

[1:04:37] were all part of a a stable for mules.

[1:04:41] >> And it was in a ravine down here on one

[1:04:44] of the lots that he was trying to sell.

[1:04:46] And the guy that was buying the lot

[1:04:48] said, "I really hate that building.

[1:04:50] could get that scummy building off my my

[1:04:54] lot and I'll buy it. And so Bob told the

[1:04:58] manager, the farm manager and me, he

[1:05:00] said, "Lose the building." So we went

[1:05:03] down there. We started pulling the

[1:05:05] plywood off. We found these logs.

[1:05:07] >> Oh, nice.

[1:05:08] >> And so we we measured every log and I

[1:05:11] numbered them all and then uh drew a

[1:05:14] plan for the cabin.

[1:05:16] >> Wow. So you planned this cabin?

[1:05:17] >> Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Cool. drew the actual

[1:05:20] drawings and everything.

[1:05:21] >> Amazing.

[1:05:22] >> And uh I and the farm manager put it

[1:05:25] together. And the fireplace behind

[1:05:29] behind you here, that stone fire, all

[1:05:32] the stones came off this property.

[1:05:35] >> All the pine in the floor was taken to a

[1:05:38] lumber yard and cut from trees off the

[1:05:40] property.

[1:05:41] >> So there's I mean

[1:05:43] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:05:44] >> So you Yeah. This place is like in your

[1:05:46] in your bones basically.

[1:05:47] >> Exactly. Um, returning to the topic of

[1:05:50] these conversations with Bob, you know,

[1:05:52] it like I hear I hear a lot of his

[1:05:56] >> you you guys I'm assuming probably

[1:05:57] influenced each other's philosophies to

[1:06:00] some degree

[1:06:01] >> because you were some degree. Yeah.

[1:06:02] >> Yeah. But were there any things that you

[1:06:04] guys would disagree on?

[1:06:08] >> Yeah, there's a lot of things we

[1:06:10] disagreed on. Um, and and a lot of

[1:06:14] people asked me, "You must have been

[1:06:15] really hard to work with." And I said,

[1:06:17] "Yeah, absolutely." He was difficult.

[1:06:20] >> But then anybody who's creative is going

[1:06:22] to be difficult.

[1:06:24] >> Yeah.

[1:06:24] >> Because the the idea that you have to

[1:06:27] make decisions good and bad

[1:06:31] uh in answer to some things that are

[1:06:33] good or bad, is going to put you at odds

[1:06:36] with somebody.

[1:06:38] Uh in this case, I was trying to protect

[1:06:41] him from the people he was

[1:06:44] >> selling lots to. Okay.

[1:06:46] >> And in in close proximity to the uh the

[1:06:50] center and then at some point they came

[1:06:54] and uh wanted to put a gas pipeline

[1:06:56] through here. I think right just up the

[1:07:00] hill here maybe 200 m. And uh everybody

[1:07:04] was fighting it. Uh from where the gas

[1:07:08] pipe came into the state of Virginia to

[1:07:11] here, which it had not been inserted

[1:07:14] here yet. Um everybody was fighting it.

[1:07:18] They didn't like it. And uh I thought,

[1:07:22] uh well, if they can't get rid of it

[1:07:26] now, I'm going to have to do something

[1:07:27] about it. So, I asked for arbitration

[1:07:31] and I went up the the road back here. Uh

[1:07:36] there's a road just close proximity over

[1:07:38] here and it's called Rocky Road. And I

[1:07:42] went up Rocky Road and I found a hunt

[1:07:44] club just a little ways up, maybe half a

[1:07:47] mile. And I drove up to talk to the the

[1:07:51] guys in the hook club. And uh it turns

[1:07:54] out I got there in a two-wheel drive

[1:07:57] car.

[1:07:58] And if they put the pipeline through

[1:08:01] here, they would have to build an entire

[1:08:03] elevator section where they lift the

[1:08:05] trucks and the pipe

[1:08:07] >> up the side of the mountain. So during

[1:08:10] arbitration, I argued with them to the

[1:08:13] point of exhaustion. And then I said,

[1:08:16] "You know, it would have been a lot

[1:08:17] easier if you just used the road and

[1:08:19] drove up." And they said, "What road?"

[1:08:23] And I told him, and it turns out,

[1:08:26] um, when when the lawyer, the head

[1:08:29] lawyer said, "Who who do you talk to

[1:08:32] about this?" I said, "Your head

[1:08:33] engineer."

[1:08:35] But he said, "We can't do that. It's set

[1:08:37] in stone. Everything's set in stone."

[1:08:40] And he was sitting right there in front

[1:08:41] of me when I said it. So she asked him

[1:08:46] if that was true and he said, "Yeah, but

[1:08:48] you told me to respond. It's set in

[1:08:51] stone if anybody wanted to change

[1:08:53] things."

[1:08:54] >> Right. Of course.

[1:08:54] >> Yeah.

[1:08:55] >> Yeah.

[1:08:55] >> So, well, we took a day break and the

[1:08:59] arbitrator who was a judge.

[1:09:02] >> Mhm.

[1:09:02] >> U let them go and see this other road.

[1:09:06] They came back and immediately switched.

[1:09:09] It was cheaper.

[1:09:10] >> Yeah. You know, so so I learned a long

[1:09:13] time ago, especially in the military,

[1:09:16] >> if you know you're going to be butting

[1:09:18] heads with somebody, you don't ever go

[1:09:20] in the front door,

[1:09:21] >> right?

[1:09:21] >> You go in the back door.

[1:09:22] >> Make it seem like it's their idea.

[1:09:24] >> Exactly. You give them something they

[1:09:26] really want better or something that

[1:09:30] they believe they fixed and drop it like

[1:09:34] a drop it like a rock and everything's

[1:09:36] fine.

[1:09:37] >> Yeah. when you when you would have these

[1:09:40] conversational or philosophical

[1:09:42] conversations with Bob,

[1:09:44] >> um you eventually, you know, this gets

[1:09:48] into something I was just talking to to

[1:09:50] Paul from Monroe on the drive over here

[1:09:52] eventually, but I'll I'll save that for

[1:09:53] a second. But um you eventually

[1:09:56] experienced some things that sound very

[1:10:00] similar to things Bob talked about in

[1:10:02] some of his books. And I'm thinking

[1:10:03] specifically about your your second NDE,

[1:10:06] I believe it was, when you were having

[1:10:07] the heart surgery

[1:10:09] >> where you experienced this like luminous

[1:10:12] >> light being. You you you talk a lot

[1:10:14] about the first NDE in Germany, but I

[1:10:16] feel like you talk about the second one

[1:10:17] less. Would you mind sharing that story?

[1:10:20] >> Well, yeah. The the reason why is the

[1:10:22] the one that was in Austria, actually.

[1:10:24] The one

[1:10:25] >> the one in Europe was the most profound

[1:10:29] near-death experience I ever had. I had

[1:10:31] a number of them. Um, when you spend 30

[1:10:36] 33 months in combat areas, that happens.

[1:10:39] But

[1:10:42] uh when I retired from the military and

[1:10:46] I moved here, what most people don't

[1:10:48] know was in Stargate, I was one of the

[1:10:51] original six that uh they they went out

[1:10:55] and found that they believe could do

[1:10:58] what uh what we were being trained to

[1:11:00] do. So

[1:11:03] um I at the time I was an advisor to the

[1:11:06] three star that ran all intelligence in

[1:11:09] the army.

[1:11:09] >> Was this double line?

[1:11:11] >> Uh no at that time it was a general

[1:11:13] Roya. There were they replaced the

[1:11:17] general like every 3 to 5 years. So

[1:11:20] until I got out of the military there

[1:11:22] were three or four different generals.

[1:11:25] It started with General Roya and then a

[1:11:27] general Smith then a general

[1:11:31] Sam remembers his name right now, but

[1:11:33] >> yeah,

[1:11:33] >> string of general. And I was uh my

[1:11:36] office is directly over them and

[1:11:39] whenever they had a problem, I would go

[1:11:41] and report and they'd tell me what they

[1:11:43] needed.

[1:11:45] And so um what what happened is uh

[1:11:50] General Roya uh was asked to take

[1:11:54] authority or to take managerial

[1:11:57] authority over the Stargate program. It

[1:12:00] was actually called Gondola Wish.

[1:12:03] >> We had just found out that the Russians

[1:12:05] were using psychics.

[1:12:08] >> Had no idea how good or how bad they

[1:12:10] were. So, uh, when that happens, you

[1:12:14] have to determine threat, and that's

[1:12:16] done with a like a two-year project. You

[1:12:19] go out and you find people who can be

[1:12:22] trained to do what they claim they're

[1:12:24] doing, or you find people that can learn

[1:12:29] to do it to a better extent than others.

[1:12:32] And then, uh, you send them out in the

[1:12:35] world. You train train them a little bit

[1:12:37] or let them practice until they become

[1:12:39] competent and then you send them out in

[1:12:42] the world, but you target your own

[1:12:43] stuff. And then after about 6 months to

[1:12:47] a year in the field collecting

[1:12:49] intelligence or data against our own

[1:12:53] targets, you bring them back in. You

[1:12:56] take all the data they've collected and

[1:12:58] you turn it over to an independent

[1:13:00] agency

[1:13:02] uh like an Air Force agency or the

[1:13:04] Marine Corps or whatever and they

[1:13:07] analyze it and come back and say this is

[1:13:10] how we believe the degree to which it's

[1:13:13] a threat. Okay. If it turns out it is a

[1:13:17] threat then you have to develop a

[1:13:19] defense at a whole new different

[1:13:22] mission.

[1:13:22] >> Yeah. Well, in our case, um, I was never

[1:13:26] going to be one of the original six. I

[1:13:29] was an advisor to the general,

[1:13:31] >> and he called me into his office and

[1:13:33] said, "Uh, this is a a hanky project.

[1:13:38] They want to do this hanky project out

[1:13:40] of Fort Me."

[1:13:41] >> And it makes me really nervous. And I

[1:13:44] can understand that cuz uh, you didn't

[1:13:48] bring the term psychics up anywhere in

[1:13:50] the military.

[1:13:51] >> Too afraid to say it. Exactly. And so,

[1:13:54] >> uh, he wanted to know more about it. So,

[1:13:57] he sent me out to, uh, Stanford. And

[1:14:01] when I was out at Stanford, I was told

[1:14:04] everything I wanted to know about remote

[1:14:05] viewing,

[1:14:06] >> SRRI,

[1:14:07] >> at SRRI, Stanford Research Institute

[1:14:10] International.

[1:14:11] And uh, but I'm asking so many

[1:14:14] questions. Russ D Russell Tar.

[1:14:18] >> Yeah.

[1:14:19] uh who worked it who was one of the

[1:14:21] founders of the lab that discovered

[1:14:24] remote drilling.

[1:14:25] >> Actually they didn't but they

[1:14:28] reinstituted it in the modern world. He

[1:14:32] said you know we you don't learn

[1:14:33] anything asking questions. Why don't you

[1:14:35] just do a few and you'll know what it's

[1:14:37] like.

[1:14:39] So I said, "Sure." You know, and so my

[1:14:42] very first target, I was uh in a in a

[1:14:47] room with Russell Tar. Both of us are

[1:14:49] now have no idea where this person went

[1:14:53] as uh one of the other employees had

[1:14:56] randomly selected a target and left. And

[1:15:01] so we're sitting there for 30 minutes or

[1:15:04] so and I'm I'm just sitting there

[1:15:06] staring at white paper with a pen in my

[1:15:08] hand.

[1:15:09] >> Yeah.

[1:15:09] >> And and Russell Tark says, "Well, well,

[1:15:12] tell us something about the target." I

[1:15:14] said, "How am I supposed to do that,

[1:15:16] Russell? I don't know where the hell it

[1:15:17] is. I don't know where that guy went."

[1:15:19] >> Yeah.

[1:15:20] >> So he says, "Invent something." So I

[1:15:22] did. I drew what I thought was an

[1:15:24] invention coming out of my mind.

[1:15:27] Um, I wound up in three days I did six

[1:15:30] of these. And it turns out the very

[1:15:33] first one I did, uh, when I drew the

[1:15:37] building, it it was very easy to see

[1:15:41] that it was the art museum on Stanford

[1:15:43] University.

[1:15:45] >> Um, and that's where the guy was

[1:15:47] standing, the entryway to the art museum

[1:15:51] in Stanford. It turns out when it was

[1:15:55] severely analyzed and and looked at as a

[1:16:00] uh by an independent guy who said all

[1:16:03] this loss here in this loss. I had a uh

[1:16:07] out of six targets I had five perfect

[1:16:10] results and one near perfect which

[1:16:13] >> still stands today.

[1:16:14] >> Yeah.

[1:16:15] >> Well, I just thought, "Oh, maybe I'm

[1:16:17] good at this. I don't know." But I wrote

[1:16:20] the report on the plane coming back and

[1:16:23] I dropped it on the general's desk at

[1:16:25] the headquarters.

[1:16:27] So I didn't think anything about it

[1:16:30] other than going up and going back to

[1:16:33] work and my desk on some problems I was

[1:16:36] working on. So I got back into my office

[1:16:38] and I pulled my desk drawer open. It was

[1:16:41] empty.

[1:16:43] All my desk drawers were empty.

[1:16:45] >> Yeah.

[1:16:46] >> What the hell's going on here? I went

[1:16:48] down to the general's office and I said,

[1:16:50] "Uh, excuse me, general, but is there a

[1:16:53] reason my desk is empty?" He said,

[1:16:56] "Well, yeah. Um, I had a chat with the

[1:16:59] people out of SRI,

[1:17:03] Russell Target, I'll put off and they

[1:17:06] really really want you in this this

[1:17:08] operation. So, I'm going to reassign you

[1:17:11] to Fort Me."

[1:17:14] And I'll tell you exactly what I did. I

[1:17:16] I got down on one knee and I went,

[1:17:19] "General, please don't send me to Fort

[1:17:22] Me." Because I knew it was a career

[1:17:25] killer.

[1:17:26] >> Yeah.

[1:17:26] >> And uh

[1:17:28] it's it I just didn't want to be doing

[1:17:31] something that would ruin my career. And

[1:17:35] the general said, "I'm sorry, but it's

[1:17:37] an order." So in the army, you stand up,

[1:17:41] snap to attention, and salute the

[1:17:43] general and say, "Yes, sir." hurry and

[1:17:44] you pack your bag and go to Fort Me,

[1:17:46] which is what I did.

[1:17:48] >> Yeah.

[1:17:48] >> And all I could do was the best job he

[1:17:51] told me.

[1:17:51] >> Yeah. And for people that don't know,

[1:17:53] you you had a long career in the

[1:17:55] military. You spent a long time

[1:17:56] overseas. You fought very hard to get

[1:17:58] promoted to warrant officer. So, so at

[1:18:01] this point in your career, you're very

[1:18:03] career oriented. Like

[1:18:04] >> I was career oriented from day one.

[1:18:07] Um at at the time at the time he had

[1:18:11] said that I had just come back from

[1:18:15] uh a little more than 14 straight years

[1:18:18] of operations overseas

[1:18:20] when the average was like three.

[1:18:23] >> Mhm. Yeah.

[1:18:24] >> And and uh I had uh six hardship tours

[1:18:28] when the average is one.

[1:18:29] >> Yeah. And uh so I would rather have gone

[1:18:34] back overseas and done real real work.

[1:18:37] Pushing papers is not my thing.

[1:18:41] Uh but I definitely did not want to risk

[1:18:44] my career over it. Um but he gave me an

[1:18:48] order so I carried it out.

[1:18:50] So for I think for a lot of the people

[1:18:53] who ended up at Fort me maybe they had

[1:18:56] some like some say they had kind of

[1:18:59] psychical things happening to them

[1:19:00] earlier in life some didn't even think

[1:19:04] they did you know like I've talked to

[1:19:05] Paul Smith he you know

[1:19:07] >> to him he like didn't even know this was

[1:19:09] a possible thing until he was like

[1:19:11] already in the program and experiencing

[1:19:13] it. But but for you reading your memoir

[1:19:15] at least, it seems like you were aware

[1:19:17] that you had some kind of intuitive

[1:19:20] capacities earlier in life. But did but

[1:19:24] >> so did that was it an existential shock

[1:19:27] to you when you're being so accurate

[1:19:30] doing these remote viewings or were you

[1:19:32] like oh this is something I think I've

[1:19:34] tapped into before. Did it make sense or

[1:19:36] were you kind of blown away by it?

[1:19:38] Initially I was blown away by it is I I

[1:19:41] didn't know how that was happening. I

[1:19:43] really didn't. Yeah. And and it it uh

[1:19:47] confused me. Um at in the I have to say

[1:19:52] the notoriety of it within the

[1:19:54] intelligence arena where everything's

[1:19:58] classified, nobody can talk about it. It

[1:20:01] was like scary.

[1:20:04] >> Yeah. because the most of the people

[1:20:08] thought I was crazy.

[1:20:10] Um I also I was doing demonstrations

[1:20:15] for the committee that was approving our

[1:20:17] money from year to year base

[1:20:20] >> and uh I I started to feel like I was a

[1:20:24] little monkey, you know, with that red

[1:20:26] cap. I do this dance and they give us

[1:20:28] the money.

[1:20:29] >> Yeah.

[1:20:29] >> For the next year. So you'd have to go

[1:20:31] in front of a general or whoever who was

[1:20:33] like approving a budget and

[1:20:35] >> go in front of a whole committee.

[1:20:37] >> Yeah. And they go, "Okay, remote view."

[1:20:39] And you'd have to do it.

[1:20:40] >> Right. What they would do is we'd sit

[1:20:43] there uh we get there the meeting would

[1:20:45] start early in the morning like 8:00 in

[1:20:48] in the congressional building and uh all

[1:20:52] senators we'd sit there

[1:20:55] uh from 8:00 on and people

[1:20:58] representatives from the different units

[1:21:01] would come in and say uh this is this is

[1:21:05] what we tasked them with this is the

[1:21:07] result what helped what didn't uh when

[1:21:10] it worked, when it didn't work,

[1:21:13] um and how the information was used, was

[1:21:17] it a value or not a value? And we'd sit

[1:21:21] there all all morning while I was going

[1:21:23] on. And and then uh we take a lunch

[1:21:26] break. And when we came back from lunch,

[1:21:29] the comment they made was uh we made you

[1:21:33] a really hard target while we're at

[1:21:35] lunch. And I have to demonstrate remote

[1:21:37] viewing so they could see what it was.

[1:21:40] Well, I did that like four straight

[1:21:43] times and then I told the colonel, I

[1:21:45] said, "I don't want to do this anymore."

[1:21:48] Um, and he said, "Well, you're going to

[1:21:51] have to because that's the way we get

[1:21:52] our money."

[1:21:54] And so I said, "What what if we do it

[1:21:56] differently?" And he said, "What do you

[1:21:58] mean?" I said, "Uh, I'll do the target

[1:22:02] on Saturday. We'll transcribe it on

[1:22:05] Monday. We'll take it with us on

[1:22:07] Thursday." and when they say we've got

[1:22:09] this really tough target, we'll just

[1:22:12] give them the answer. And he said, "Can

[1:22:14] you do that?" I said, "Sure. Time and

[1:22:17] space isn't real. We just put it where

[1:22:19] we want it."

[1:22:22] Remember the look on his face. He was

[1:22:24] really nervous after that, but we did

[1:22:27] it. And so we're sitting in there at the

[1:22:30] meeting and and uh the you know, the

[1:22:34] committee's there. We hear all these

[1:22:36] people talk about what we didn't do,

[1:22:39] what we did, what we

[1:22:42] couldn't do, that sort of thing.

[1:22:43] >> Yeah.

[1:22:44] >> And then they came back from lunch and

[1:22:46] the chairman said, um, uh, we picked a

[1:22:50] the toughest target we've ever picked

[1:22:53] for you today.

[1:22:55] And I said, well, in view of the fact

[1:22:57] that you're that important and, uh, you

[1:23:00] need all the time you can get, I went

[1:23:02] ahead and hit the target on Saturday.

[1:23:04] and I handed the the guard. The guard

[1:23:07] comes over and give the report and he

[1:23:10] gave it to the uh chairman. So the

[1:23:13] chairman is looking at this report and

[1:23:15] he started smiling and he said, "I

[1:23:17] didn't know you could do this." And we

[1:23:21] well I explained that sure it's not a

[1:23:24] big deal when it's done. The big deal is

[1:23:27] learning how to do it and do it right.

[1:23:31] And so he passed it to his right and

[1:23:33] we're we're now discussing time and

[1:23:35] space.

[1:23:36] >> Yeah.

[1:23:36] >> You know, time how it works.

[1:23:39] >> And I was telling him, you know, time's

[1:23:41] not real. Doesn't exist at all. We

[1:23:43] invented it for ourselves so we can

[1:23:47] locate things. And uh at some point it

[1:23:52] gets down to the end of the line of

[1:23:55] senator and this older senator is

[1:23:59] looking at this report and he suddenly

[1:24:01] stands up. His chair fell over. He stood

[1:24:04] up so fast and he threw the report

[1:24:07] across the room and he pointed his

[1:24:09] finger at me. He says, "You are doing

[1:24:11] the work of the devil. You will burn in

[1:24:13] the fires of hell." He ran out of the

[1:24:15] room.

[1:24:17] All here stood up on the back of my

[1:24:19] neck.

[1:24:19] >> Wow.

[1:24:20] >> And uh chairman said he's leaving the

[1:24:24] committee. So don't worry about him.

[1:24:26] >> Wow. Yeah. And so on this point, you've

[1:24:31] done very deep thinking about this idea

[1:24:34] of time. The mind is essentially like a

[1:24:37] time machine. And I know you wrote a

[1:24:40] whole book about this, right? And I

[1:24:41] unfortunately haven't read it, but um

[1:24:43] this I'm going to guess this ties back

[1:24:46] to this holistic reality that you were

[1:24:49] talking about perceiving

[1:24:51] >> in the near-death state where you

[1:24:53] realize that everything is already this

[1:24:54] kind of

[1:24:56] >> one cohesive thing. Is this what you

[1:24:58] mean by the Yeah, please expand on that.

[1:25:01] Yeah. Our life our lives are our lives

[1:25:04] are a construct.

[1:25:06] Um

[1:25:07] from the day we're born to the day we

[1:25:09] die.

[1:25:11] Uh it in effect we we walk around in our

[1:25:16] reality collecting experiences.

[1:25:19] Uh the experiences come out of uh

[1:25:22] initially come out of decisions we make.

[1:25:26] Um what we don't believe is we don't

[1:25:28] believe the decision we make affects

[1:25:31] others. We think it only affects us.

[1:25:34] That's again part of the human

[1:25:36] arrogance. Okay.

[1:25:38] >> So but in fact

[1:25:42] uh when we do something the experience

[1:25:46] is shared uh we don't know who it's

[1:25:48] shared with or how far to what degree.

[1:25:51] We just feel what we feel about

[1:25:53] ourselves.

[1:25:55] Uh but what happens when we do that when

[1:25:59] we create this place in time space it it

[1:26:03] sort of gives us a time a very specific

[1:26:05] time date and then it gives us the space

[1:26:08] of the place that it happened.

[1:26:10] >> Yeah.

[1:26:10] >> So that just became a creation.

[1:26:12] >> It's almost like the collapse of the

[1:26:14] wave function and

[1:26:15] >> it just it's now real.

[1:26:17] >> Yeah. And and what's interesting is if

[1:26:20] you really believe that uh reality is a

[1:26:25] construct you're building as you go,

[1:26:28] this never goes away. It becomes a a

[1:26:31] wireframe.

[1:26:32] >> Yeah. And that wireframe when you uh at

[1:26:36] some point when you are close to death

[1:26:40] and you have a sudden uh obligation to

[1:26:44] look at everything you ever did, it's

[1:26:46] done instantly. It's it's that

[1:26:49] wireframe. It may look like a giant

[1:26:52] bowling ball. It just fills in with all

[1:26:55] the other parts of that uh that uh

[1:26:59] experience. has it affected everyone

[1:27:01] around you or affected the people you're

[1:27:03] in direct contact with whatever.

[1:27:06] >> So it other words it it's sort of a

[1:27:10] report card. Okay. Now here's the

[1:27:13] problem. You you now have a report card

[1:27:16] that says you can take a paintbrush and

[1:27:18] there's a million colors and you can

[1:27:20] take one and a half% of that color, 3%

[1:27:24] of that color, 40% of this color,

[1:27:27] whatever based on the analysis of that

[1:27:31] event where you got feedback on all of

[1:27:34] your decision making

[1:27:36] >> and you paint yourself with it. So now

[1:27:38] you're a special color. You can't you

[1:27:42] can't wipe it off. You can't scrub it

[1:27:44] off. You can't change it. That's when

[1:27:47] people see you now in a sense, I'm

[1:27:50] talking now in a uh

[1:27:53] uh in a sense of identity.

[1:27:56] >> Mhm.

[1:27:57] >> They said, "Oh, that's what that person

[1:27:59] is."

[1:28:01] No two people are the same color.

[1:28:03] >> Yeah.

[1:28:04] >> Okay. Some are darker colors than

[1:28:07] others, which are brighter colors.

[1:28:10] The darker colors are the ones where

[1:28:13] people got stuck in a rut and did

[1:28:15] whatever they wanted to do. Um, now as

[1:28:20] an example, murdered 30 million people

[1:28:22] to have this power.

[1:28:23] >> Yeah.

[1:28:24] >> What do you think his color looks like?

[1:28:26] >> I would assume black. There's nothing he

[1:28:28] could do about it except

[1:28:31] come back a million times and learn.

[1:28:36] >> Mhm.

[1:28:36] >> And learn and learn and learn.

[1:28:40] I think the experiential stuff is the

[1:28:44] one thing we can take with us when we

[1:28:46] die.

[1:28:48] >> And it's a very powerful thing because

[1:28:50] it tells us who and what we are because

[1:28:54] it it paints us. It's like,

[1:28:57] >> yeah,

[1:28:57] >> tada, here I am.

[1:28:59] >> So, so to try to summarize what you just

[1:29:01] said, it's sort of like what the the

[1:29:03] truth of what you really are is this

[1:29:05] thing that from our perspective, we

[1:29:06] would almost think of as this like

[1:29:08] three-dimensional

[1:29:10] um wireframe spherical soul thing that

[1:29:13] is experiencing as if things are

[1:29:16] happening sequentially, but really

[1:29:18] there's this other kind of experience

[1:29:21] that's outside of time. Is is that

[1:29:24] right?

[1:29:26] >> Yes.

[1:29:26] >> Okay.

[1:29:27] >> That

[1:29:29] Yeah, that's good enough.

[1:29:31] >> Okay. Um

[1:29:32] >> there's a some other little fibbits in

[1:29:34] there. It's not worth digging into.

[1:29:36] >> Okay. Okay. So, so one thing, so some

[1:29:38] people believe

[1:29:40] and so I I'd love to hear your thoughts

[1:29:42] on this because some people think that

[1:29:44] would extrapolate what you're saying

[1:29:46] into you don't actually have free will

[1:29:49] because this construct is already

[1:29:51] >> perfect form of free will.

[1:29:53] >> Okay. Yeah. So, so you think we still

[1:29:55] although there is this

[1:29:57] >> you know because you talk about like

[1:29:58] retrocausality and stuff like that as

[1:30:00] well which would imply well wait if

[1:30:02] there's retrocausality then something in

[1:30:04] the future it must already be set

[1:30:06] >> so how do you view that relationship

[1:30:08] between free will and all of this stuff

[1:30:10] yeah

[1:30:11] >> I don't think it matters free will or no

[1:30:13] free will

[1:30:14] >> it's it's we design it with the

[1:30:18] intention of free will

[1:30:21] get what we get from it And the only

[1:30:25] thing that we are really after is the

[1:30:28] experience and the value of it. In other

[1:30:30] words, the experience of that mix create

[1:30:34] that that decision

[1:30:36] to produce the effect. Now the effect is

[1:30:39] what we what we learn from. When I say

[1:30:42] we, that's part of God too.

[1:30:45] >> Yeah.

[1:30:46] >> Okay. Because God in my opinion is a

[1:30:49] grand engineer that has no idea what

[1:30:51] he's doing, what she's doing or it's

[1:30:54] doing.

[1:30:55] >> It just does. And so in order for

[1:31:00] a godlike energy

[1:31:04] understand what it is, it has to have

[1:31:06] enough experience in all things to know

[1:31:12] the ramifications of what its actions

[1:31:14] are. So we're we're basically the

[1:31:18] fingers

[1:31:20] of whatever you want to call God or the

[1:31:22] grand engineer or the whatever.

[1:31:26] >> And and I think there's no good or bad

[1:31:28] there.

[1:31:30] But as humans,

[1:31:34] the fact that we exist as humans and

[1:31:38] then don't I think is uh

[1:31:42] is a way of really feeling a value.

[1:31:46] >> Yes.

[1:31:48] >> Whether and we can attach good, bad,

[1:31:52] ugly, nice, pretty, all those different

[1:31:55] descriptors.

[1:31:57] we we have the right to apply them

[1:31:59] because we experienced them.

[1:32:02] >> So when you say we select this I I'm

[1:32:05] assuming you're meaning from some sort

[1:32:06] of like higher dimensional pre pre-life

[1:32:10] perspective.

[1:32:11] >> Well yeah I think in here's in the

[1:32:14] grosser sense all living matter

[1:32:18] has that capability and that's that's

[1:32:21] where the arrogance in us comes from. Uh

[1:32:24] for instance um right now this is our

[1:32:27] home. This this planet's our home. Uh

[1:32:31] whether we were rescued and brought here

[1:32:33] or we the first instant of us existed

[1:32:37] here in the first place. It doesn't

[1:32:39] matter the fact that that this is a

[1:32:42] special place because it has oxygen, it

[1:32:45] has uh weather, it has tides, it has all

[1:32:48] the stuff necessary to make life. Mhm.

[1:32:53] >> So when you start looking at life on

[1:32:55] this planet, you have to look at the

[1:32:57] mole. Even the mole growing on the wall

[1:33:00] >> Yeah.

[1:33:01] >> has life.

[1:33:04] All life on this planet understands that

[1:33:09] it it has to act a certain way. It's

[1:33:13] it's kind of like a uh an agreement in a

[1:33:17] sense to follow the same same rules.

[1:33:20] It's a consensus of agreement on what's

[1:33:25] necessary

[1:33:26] for this planet, this little ball in

[1:33:30] space, what's absolutely necessary to

[1:33:34] keep all life in balance.

[1:33:38] So, it's a consensus.

[1:33:40] >> We're part of that. But where the

[1:33:43] problem comes in is we don't think about

[1:33:45] it that way. We think about it like

[1:33:48] we're the only entity getting to use it

[1:33:51] and and we can do anything we want. We

[1:33:54] can cut trees. We can set fire to them.

[1:33:56] We can do whatever the hell we want to

[1:33:57] do.

[1:33:58] >> Yeah.

[1:33:58] >> No, it it this is consensus of

[1:34:01] agreement.

[1:34:03] So everyone's in balance. So everyone

[1:34:06] gets to successfully

[1:34:09] use it

[1:34:11] in life

[1:34:13] uh and death if you want to look at it

[1:34:15] that way. Mhm.

[1:34:16] >> So,

[1:34:19] but because of our arrogance, we we

[1:34:22] don't believe any of that. We just

[1:34:24] >> marshal on doing whatever we want to do.

[1:34:28] And so, it's a it's a test as well.

[1:34:33] >> Yeah.

[1:34:33] >> Will we ever mature to the fact of

[1:34:36] understanding our place in it? And when

[1:34:40] we do finally discover our place in it

[1:34:44] is when

[1:34:46] everything will smooth out.

[1:34:49] And and I think there's signs of it. And

[1:34:51] if you go back and you you read about

[1:34:54] the data that's been taken from ice

[1:34:57] >> tubes ice cores. Yeah.

[1:34:59] >> Ice cores in in the North or South

[1:35:02] Poles.

[1:35:03] what what you find or what's reported

[1:35:06] there has to do with um uh things like

[1:35:11] uh the weather as an example.

[1:35:14] >> So in looking at the weather and the

[1:35:16] from the core samples what you'll see is

[1:35:19] they they know that the weather before

[1:35:22] human was extremely erratic.

[1:35:25] >> Right. Yeah.

[1:35:26] >> Then then there became human and what

[1:35:29] happened is they it started smoothing

[1:35:31] out. Hm.

[1:35:32] >> So all this time probably 2 or 3 million

[1:35:36] years that the weather has been

[1:35:40] >> Yeah. temperate by comparison

[1:35:42] >> temperate stable.

[1:35:44] >> We get cold weather in the winter, we

[1:35:46] get warm weather in the summer. Okay.

[1:35:49] But outside of maybe a few fluctuations

[1:35:53] which may come from, you know,

[1:35:55] everything from solar flares to you name

[1:35:58] it. Yeah. We it's impossible to know but

[1:36:02] mainly stable.

[1:36:04] Uh we reach a point now where we have we

[1:36:08] produce more babies than we will ever be

[1:36:11] able to feed

[1:36:13] um more people than can ever be

[1:36:17] sharing to the point that ones at the

[1:36:20] top share.

[1:36:23] >> You understand? Yeah.

[1:36:24] >> So we've created this erratic

[1:36:29] uh place we live with this irrational

[1:36:32] imbalance

[1:36:34] and add the arrogance in. We're never

[1:36:37] going to reach that point where we

[1:36:40] understand the maturity required to

[1:36:43] exist

[1:36:45] and be off planet with other entities

[1:36:48] where we could be mining asteroids doing

[1:36:51] whatever it took. We don't we're never

[1:36:54] going to get there because we keep

[1:36:56] wanting to be a threat.

[1:36:58] >> Yeah. And and live our own egotistical

[1:37:01] desires. And

[1:37:02] >> and what's happening now? You're

[1:37:04] starting to see the erratic

[1:37:06] >> Yeah.

[1:37:06] >> coming back.

[1:37:07] >> Yes.

[1:37:08] >> And with the erratic comes perhaps a

[1:37:11] mini ice age.

[1:37:13] >> Yeah.

[1:37:14] >> And what happens to the general

[1:37:15] population?

[1:37:17] >> Not good.

[1:37:18] >> Take that.

[1:37:18] >> Yeah. and and we got to go through the

[1:37:21] whole growth process again trying to

[1:37:25] learn to be that mature

[1:37:28] entity that understands are only part of

[1:37:31] it.

[1:37:33] The mole has certain experience as well.

[1:37:37] >> Yeah. You know, and and the bears have

[1:37:41] experiences and dinosaurs have

[1:37:44] experiences and all of that tells God

[1:37:50] what it is.

[1:37:51] >> Wow.

[1:37:52] >> Okay.

[1:37:53] >> Yeah.

[1:37:53] >> So, we can do it the hard way or we can

[1:37:55] do it the good way.

[1:37:56] >> Yeah. And and I'm I'm just I just feel

[1:38:00] sad that we have to keep

[1:38:03] reloading and reloading and reloading

[1:38:06] when there's half a billion entities out

[1:38:10] there enjoying

[1:38:13] what we could be enjoying and we're not.

[1:38:15] >> Well said. Yeah. And that's another

[1:38:17] thing you find in all these traditions

[1:38:19] is the idea of a world soul. A Gaic a

[1:38:22] Gaic soul.

[1:38:22] >> Exactly. And as cliche as it sounds in

[1:38:25] in some, you know, I've done some like

[1:38:26] shamanic experiences, like plant

[1:38:28] medicine experiences, and I genuinely do

[1:38:31] have this like

[1:38:34] >> kind of like you're do like just kind of

[1:38:36] getting smacked up the backside

[1:38:38] >> kind of almost like lecture in those

[1:38:40] states where where it seems to be saying

[1:38:42] exactly what you're saying where it's

[1:38:44] like

[1:38:44] >> you have the capacities you have cuz

[1:38:47] you're supposed to work together for the

[1:38:49] benefit of this planet and reach off of

[1:38:52] this planet and it's that very cosmism

[1:38:55] kind of view. You know that Russian

[1:38:57] cosmism, those philosophers who believed

[1:38:59] it was our destiny to go to the stars

[1:39:02] and that's the kind of a lesson I get in

[1:39:04] those states. It's like that's what you

[1:39:05] guys are supposed to be doing and you're

[1:39:07] too busy

[1:39:08] >> killing each other and trying to make

[1:39:09] money and all this like you

[1:39:11] need to Yeah.

[1:39:13] >> Yeah. Yeah. And I just I have no idea

[1:39:14] like how we get over that hump and try

[1:39:17] to get into that more collective

[1:39:20] great work kind of mindset because it's

[1:39:22] like clearly we're capable of it, but

[1:39:24] it's our our horizon is we're just like

[1:39:27] looking in the wrong direction. It seems

[1:39:29] like

[1:39:29] >> well not only that but we I think we

[1:39:32] think so little of our own capabilities.

[1:39:36] M

[1:39:36] >> you know that maturity

[1:39:39] uh with that maturity we could be having

[1:39:43] experiences that made us far greater

[1:39:46] than we are.

[1:39:47] >> Yeah.

[1:39:48] >> And it's like we're just refusing to go

[1:39:50] there

[1:39:52] and

[1:39:54] it makes me sad.

[1:39:56] >> Yeah, too. So,

[1:39:59] you know, I I have a friend who said,

[1:40:02] uh, it always all this always goes back

[1:40:05] to politics or religion.

[1:40:07] >> Yeah.

[1:40:07] >> Okay. Which is, I think, two of the

[1:40:10] things that really hold us back and uh

[1:40:14] he he is always trying to like class me

[1:40:18] when we have these discussions, you

[1:40:20] know, are you like left, right, in the

[1:40:23] middle?

[1:40:24] >> He wants to put you in a bucket.

[1:40:25] >> Yeah. with everybody else. And he says,

[1:40:29] "I'm I'm I'm like uh Mercury, you know,

[1:40:33] >> you should be.

[1:40:33] >> I float around." Yeah. And

[1:40:35] >> I said, "No, I you know, Mercury is one

[1:40:39] of those things that keeps in balance."

[1:40:41] >> Yeah.

[1:40:42] >> So,

[1:40:43] uh I

[1:40:46] don't know. I just react differently.

[1:40:49] Uh I came a long way. Uh but then I got

[1:40:53] I had the opportunity of having

[1:40:55] experiences that no one else has ever

[1:40:56] had.

[1:40:57] >> Right.

[1:40:58] >> So

[1:40:58] >> yeah. Yeah. And and talking about those

[1:41:02] experiences, it's like there's so much

[1:41:03] that I just like, man, there's so much I

[1:41:05] want to talk to you about in this

[1:41:06] conversation that I don't know where to

[1:41:07] go from here. But one one thing, you

[1:41:09] know, I don't feel like I've heard you

[1:41:11] talk about too much that I know you were

[1:41:14] involved in is um project 8200.

[1:41:18] this this Fred Fred Atwater put out this

[1:41:22] 8200 book

[1:41:24] >> which was this project of a bunch of the

[1:41:25] remote viewers repeating Pat Price's

[1:41:29] >> uh remote viewings of these supposed

[1:41:31] >> Yeah

[1:41:31] >> uh UFO bases

[1:41:33] >> now what there's an issue there

[1:41:35] >> okay

[1:41:36] >> um

[1:41:38] back when I was targeted on the Pat

[1:41:41] Price targets

[1:41:44] uh everything I was targeted on was

[1:41:46] classified everything I was doing was

[1:41:48] classified.

[1:41:50] >> It was all happening within a classified

[1:41:52] project uh which at that time was called

[1:41:57] um

[1:42:00] Sun Street.

[1:42:01] >> Yeah.

[1:42:01] >> Okay. Cuz it was under the direction of

[1:42:04] the Defense Intelligence Agency at the

[1:42:06] time. So,

[1:42:09] um,

[1:42:11] I was the, at that time I was the only

[1:42:15] viewer producing remote viewings

[1:42:19] aside from Pat Price early on and the

[1:42:22] people I worked with.

[1:42:23] >> Ingo,

[1:42:24] >> uh, and Ingo Swan. Yeah. So,

[1:42:28] uh,

[1:42:30] when I was being targeted on this stuff,

[1:42:33] I was not I was not getting the same

[1:42:36] things that Pat Price was getting.

[1:42:39] >> Descriptively, yes, but

[1:42:43] emotionally

[1:42:45] uh,

[1:42:46] you know, in in a sense that we

[1:42:48] understand what's going on, it was

[1:42:50] different.

[1:42:52] And my my view of the whole set of

[1:42:56] projects that Pat Price did was that the

[1:42:59] targets were in in fact

[1:43:03] um not UFO target

[1:43:05] >> really. Okay.

[1:43:06] >> That they were a a new a new high techch

[1:43:11] defense system.

[1:43:13] >> Uh I don't know if you remember the old

[1:43:16] the old defense system called the

[1:43:18] Dooline.

[1:43:19] >> I don't.

[1:43:20] >> Okay. way before your time. Let me tell

[1:43:23] you the due line was a string of radar

[1:43:27] sites across the extreme north and it

[1:43:30] watched the horizon in case somebody

[1:43:33] launched rockets. Okay.

[1:43:34] >> Okay.

[1:43:35] >> It was an early warning system against

[1:43:38] uh the rocket delivery or ICBM delivery

[1:43:41] of atomic weapons

[1:43:44] >> that was done away with in the very

[1:43:47] earlier mid 1960s.

[1:43:49] Now, this is my opinion based on Buick.

[1:43:53] The targets I got that Pat Price said

[1:43:56] were remote were alien targets.

[1:44:00] >> Yeah.

[1:44:00] >> In fact, were over the horizon radar

[1:44:04] sites.

[1:44:05] >> Now, back then when I did the targets,

[1:44:08] that fact was extremely sensitive,

[1:44:12] >> right?

[1:44:12] >> Highly classified

[1:44:14] because they're automated sites. They

[1:44:17] have only technicians there. They walk

[1:44:20] around repairing stuff as it breaks

[1:44:22] down. But these radar sites are capable

[1:44:25] of looking over the horizon.

[1:44:27] >> Yeah.

[1:44:28] >> Radars straight line. So how do they do

[1:44:32] that? Well, that was top secret.

[1:44:35] Extremely sensitive. So when I did the

[1:44:39] targets, I said I told uh Skip Outwater,

[1:44:43] I said, "Fred,

[1:44:44] these are not alien targets. This is

[1:44:47] over the horizon radar sites. High

[1:44:51] techch stuff nobody's supposed to know

[1:44:54] about." Okay?

[1:44:56] >> And and he just looked at me

[1:44:59] and from that point on it was alien as

[1:45:03] far as Skip Water was concerned.

[1:45:05] >> For like a disinformation purpose. Yeah,

[1:45:07] because everybody everybody else was

[1:45:10] saying it was alien.

[1:45:12] >> Okay. But they weren't remote viewing.

[1:45:15] They were going on the the suspicion of

[1:45:18] or the leap

[1:45:20] >> Yeah.

[1:45:20] >> made because of what everybody was

[1:45:23] saying,

[1:45:23] >> right?

[1:45:24] >> And I think even Pat Price misidentified

[1:45:27] him. Now, it's yet to be proven because

[1:45:31] nobody goes there and actually looks

[1:45:35] >> except for Skip Atwater and some others

[1:45:39] >> and some of these sites. Uh, it's very

[1:45:42] clearly military.

[1:45:45] >> Yeah,

[1:45:45] >> it's very clearly embedded underground.

[1:45:49] It's very clearly doing over their

[1:45:51] horizon radar. So, in some of them, it's

[1:45:55] doing it a different way completely. So

[1:45:58] it it may be that dependent on the

[1:46:01] country

[1:46:03] in that that band

[1:46:06] uh the technique or method being used.

[1:46:09] >> Mhm.

[1:46:09] >> But I still think it's over the horizon

[1:46:12] radar sites.

[1:46:12] >> That's so fascinating and and it makes a

[1:46:14] lot of sense honestly and you know when

[1:46:17] so I have that project 8200 book that

[1:46:19] that he put out and it's so interesting

[1:46:21] read looking at Pat Price's remote

[1:46:23] viewings

[1:46:24] >> because they have like lore and like

[1:46:26] attached to them. I mean like there's

[1:46:28] like whole it's almost like you're

[1:46:29] reading a story

[1:46:30] >> and there's these really like involved

[1:46:33] like almost like characters in the story

[1:46:35] from my memory and really precise

[1:46:38] drawings. Then you go on to the Fort me

[1:46:39] remote viewers.

[1:46:40] >> Yeah.

[1:46:40] >> And I don't think you yours were in

[1:46:42] there cuz you were you were doing it

[1:46:43] like

[1:46:44] >> um

[1:46:45] >> yeah mine

[1:46:46] >> extended remote viewing.

[1:46:47] >> Mine came late uh much later

[1:46:50] >> cuz there's recordings of you I think

[1:46:52] doing it but it's not but you're you're

[1:46:53] like you're speaking it. I don't even

[1:46:55] remember if you're if there's video or

[1:46:57] if there's just audio of you doing it.

[1:46:59] >> Uh there's some sketches

[1:47:02] and yeah, there's a there's an audio

[1:47:05] somewhere out there.

[1:47:06] >> Yeah.

[1:47:07] >> Uh but uh when I was doing the target,

[1:47:12] uh the places I was targeted were it was

[1:47:15] dead winter. Everything was under snow

[1:47:18] banks. Um,

[1:47:20] in fact, uh, Skip Award went to one of

[1:47:24] the locations himself.

[1:47:25] >> Yeah. Was it the Spain one maybe?

[1:47:27] >> Yeah.

[1:47:28] >> Mount Purito, I think it was.

[1:47:29] >> Yes, exactly. And had problems there

[1:47:32] because early in the morning and late at

[1:47:35] night, a fog comes in.

[1:47:37] >> If you're if you're anywhere on the face

[1:47:39] of that mountain and the fog comes in,

[1:47:42] you have to sit right where you are. You

[1:47:44] cannot move. If you take three steps,

[1:47:47] you may be stepping off a 4,000

[1:47:50] >> foot cliff.

[1:47:51] >> Wow.

[1:47:51] >> Cuz you can't see your hand in front of

[1:47:53] your face. So, it's really bad place to

[1:47:57] be when the sun goes down because then

[1:48:00] it gets cold and hazardous.

[1:48:03] Um

[1:48:05] the the

[1:48:07] uh the idea that it might have been

[1:48:09] aliens, I I cannot fault because it was

[1:48:13] delivered that way. Yeah. by Pat Price.

[1:48:16] >> And do you think that could have had

[1:48:17] something to do with his interest in

[1:48:18] like Scientology and like other things

[1:48:21] like that? Okay.

[1:48:22] >> That's Scientology's interest and what

[1:48:24] the government's doing.

[1:48:25] >> Oh yeah, that

[1:48:26] >> that was really not good. And in fact,

[1:48:30] the entire history of our project is

[1:48:33] rift with people stealing.

[1:48:36] >> Yeah. it it they're stealing information

[1:48:39] out of there and and reports and

[1:48:44] uh we had uh files that would disappear.

[1:48:48] >> Yeah.

[1:48:48] >> And then reappear. I mean, come on.

[1:48:51] >> And and this and and the idea is is that

[1:48:54] this had to do with Scientology trying

[1:48:56] to take information out of the program,

[1:48:58] right?

[1:48:59] >> Exactly. because uh initially I think

[1:49:04] everybody at just about everybody at

[1:49:07] Stanford Research Institute

[1:49:10] >> uh that was working on our project was

[1:49:13] or had been at one time Scientology

[1:49:16] connected.

[1:49:17] >> Yeah.

[1:49:18] >> Uh some some claim Well, no, I wasn't

[1:49:21] there. I was I was just collecting

[1:49:23] intelligence on Scientology to see if

[1:49:26] they had any techniques or methods we

[1:49:28] could use. Okay, I'll buy that once.

[1:49:32] >> Yeah.

[1:49:33] >> But not every single person coming in

[1:49:35] the door. And and then we had a

[1:49:37] secondary problem in that some of the

[1:49:41] religious denominations of the people

[1:49:43] involved were also suspect that they

[1:49:47] were taking it for those religious

[1:49:49] centers. So, you know, it's like when it

[1:49:54] comes to aliens, everybody wants to

[1:49:56] know. Everybody wants to keep the

[1:49:58] information for themselves.

[1:50:00] And so that's a that's a standard

[1:50:03] problem there. Um

[1:50:08] I I will tell you frankly I I've

[1:50:10] targeted hundreds hundreds of UFOs.

[1:50:14] >> Wow.

[1:50:16] >> And I I can also tell you that I don't

[1:50:19] know anything about my target when I

[1:50:22] start.

[1:50:23] Um, all targets that I do uh are

[1:50:28] wrapped in some way that they're opaque

[1:50:31] that you can't tell. Uh, like if it's a

[1:50:36] location, it's written on a paper. It's

[1:50:38] in a envelope. The envelope's been

[1:50:40] wrapped over three times, sealed. No one

[1:50:44] in the room with me knows what's in the

[1:50:46] envelope. When we when we teach remote

[1:50:49] viewing here, I teach remote viewing

[1:50:51] here. The students are blind, double

[1:50:53] blind. The trainers are double

[1:50:56] >> blind. And I'm double

[1:50:57] >> blind.

[1:50:59] >> Nobody knows.

[1:51:00] >> Yeah.

[1:51:00] >> Okay. So when they're successful,

[1:51:04] they understand exactly what it is they

[1:51:07] just did. And in order to deal with it

[1:51:11] now, they have to accept the fact that

[1:51:13] remote viewing is real.

[1:51:15] Changes somebody personally. Yeah.

[1:51:17] >> Completely. They never can go back once

[1:51:21] they go through that door.

[1:51:23] >> Yeah.

[1:51:24] >> Can't back out of it again.

[1:51:26] >> Anywhere else it's taught.

[1:51:30] So many hints are given in most cases

[1:51:32] that they can they have something they

[1:51:35] can blame the success on.

[1:51:37] >> Right.

[1:51:37] >> And they never get any better.

[1:51:39] >> Yeah. And and in a way that's good

[1:51:41] because if you you want to be

[1:51:42] approaching this with epistemic

[1:51:46] you want to be directed toward the

[1:51:47] truth. Like you want to know, am I doing

[1:51:49] something real here or is this all

[1:51:51] >> And and eventually something happens

[1:51:53] like the out-of- body experience I had

[1:51:55] here or whatever where you're like,

[1:51:57] >> if if that's not real, then this isn't

[1:51:59] real right now. And and once you cross

[1:52:01] that Rubicon, I

[1:52:03] >> I'm not somebody who believes that like

[1:52:05] you really have to believe that

[1:52:06] something's true for it to be true. But

[1:52:08] when you know that it's true from a

[1:52:10] experience that's really undeniable, I

[1:52:12] do think that that that does change

[1:52:14] something. Yeah, it uh but I won't go

[1:52:20] into any details, but there are certain

[1:52:22] things we do within the class when we're

[1:52:25] teaching it

[1:52:26] >> where the only way it could work for

[1:52:30] everyone.

[1:52:31] >> Yeah.

[1:52:31] >> Is if it works for one.

[1:52:33] >> Yeah.

[1:52:33] >> It works for everybody.

[1:52:35] >> And it's an amazing thing to see when

[1:52:38] that works. It it like you catch the

[1:52:41] entire class

[1:52:44] like coming right out of a dark closet.

[1:52:47] >> Yeah.

[1:52:48] >> It it they and they just

[1:52:51] the expression on the glass is amazing.

[1:52:54] They'll they'll just go, "Oh my god. Oh

[1:52:58] wow." that it's like then everybody

[1:53:01] talks about it and they're up all night

[1:53:04] because it's it's hard to deal with if

[1:53:08] you're not willing to change.

[1:53:11] And uh the the the one person

[1:53:16] that that never happened with was a

[1:53:19] reporter.

[1:53:20] >> Really?

[1:53:20] >> They were here to collect information so

[1:53:22] they could write an

[1:53:24] >> Wow. Of course. Of course. So, go going

[1:53:27] back, you said you've remote viewed

[1:53:28] hundreds of UFOs. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What

[1:53:30] were you

[1:53:31] >> hundreds of UFOs? Okay.

[1:53:34] Um, never saw an entity in any of them.

[1:53:38] >> No, I did see

[1:53:41] uh

[1:53:43] aliens, but I would call aliens because

[1:53:47] there's no other word to use.

[1:53:48] >> Yeah.

[1:53:49] >> Uh they're not aliens actually. What

[1:53:51] they are, they're robots. Okay.

[1:53:55] Every entity I've ever seen in a UFO

[1:53:58] except for one UFO are all robots.

[1:54:01] >> Fascinating.

[1:54:02] >> They they grow their robots and they

[1:54:05] program their robots and when they're

[1:54:07] done using them, they step back into

[1:54:09] that and what they're made out of goes

[1:54:12] back to be used again. And I can say

[1:54:16] that because

[1:54:18] they're completely indifferent to

[1:54:21] humans. They're doing a job, a function,

[1:54:25] and they occupy these UFOs, these

[1:54:28] machines. And these machines that we

[1:54:30] call UFOs, I think the reason they have

[1:54:34] robot robotics operating them and and

[1:54:38] they look sort of like entities

[1:54:41] is because it's the only way they can

[1:54:44] transfer it in that jump from star to

[1:54:47] star. Now they they can transfer

[1:54:52] a live entity but the the amount of

[1:54:55] power and the amount of energy it takes

[1:54:58] to do that the size of the craft that

[1:55:00] has to be used

[1:55:01] >> is enormous. So,

[1:55:05] there are times when

[1:55:08] uh when I've had a sense that I was

[1:55:11] looking at

[1:55:13] um a UFO or a machine, it had for the

[1:55:18] most part a live entity in it.

[1:55:21] >> Uhhuh.

[1:55:21] >> But that that one time, which is now

[1:55:25] become numerous times, it's the same

[1:55:28] entity. And as soon as I see that fact,

[1:55:33] I'm shut down.

[1:55:35] >> Wow.

[1:55:35] >> Everything just quits.

[1:55:37] >> No more information.

[1:55:40] >> This begs so many interesting questions.

[1:55:42] So yeah, I know.

[1:55:43] >> So So do you have any sense of like So

[1:55:45] there there is speculation

[1:55:49] of there's something on the planet

[1:55:53] >> that is producing these beings and these

[1:55:56] craft for some kind of purpose. Maybe

[1:55:58] that purpose is monitoring things. Maybe

[1:56:00] it's um you know it's been here long

[1:56:03] before us. May maybe it's the thing that

[1:56:05] influenced humans arising in the first

[1:56:07] place. Who knows? But do you have any

[1:56:10] sense of like do you think that's the

[1:56:12] case that these things are being made

[1:56:14] terrestrially somewhere for some

[1:56:15] function or do you think they're okay?

[1:56:17] >> See I I think they transfer the machine.

[1:56:21] >> The machine generates

[1:56:24] uh a robot.

[1:56:26] they they are generated as a life form.

[1:56:31] In other words, they're grown

[1:56:32] >> biological

[1:56:34] robot

[1:56:35] >> and then it's programmed in some way.

[1:56:38] And I I believe that's true. Um

[1:56:42] >> because I I don't think they can get a

[1:56:44] live entity across without, like I said,

[1:56:48] enormous amount of power and energy and

[1:56:51] the right kind of vehicle.

[1:56:54] Um and and so there may be

[1:56:59] three entities max on this planet

[1:57:02] >> like real real entities. You

[1:57:05] >> real real alien entities that

[1:57:08] >> Sorry to interrupt you but like three

[1:57:09] individual entities or three species.

[1:57:12] three individual entities, maybe five,

[1:57:15] very small number, and they're

[1:57:18] responsible for

[1:57:21] uh correlating whatever the information

[1:57:24] is that the robots are collecting and

[1:57:27] they change up on the robot design.

[1:57:30] >> So, it confuses us.

[1:57:32] >> Are they anthropomorphic

[1:57:34] or are they just like almost like a

[1:57:38] biological organ that drives the ship or

[1:57:41] >> Yeah. No, they Yes, they drive the ship,

[1:57:46] but only one. That's the one that's been

[1:57:51] programmed, trained to drive the ship.

[1:57:53] The others have their own functions. So,

[1:57:57] you look at it this way.

[1:57:59] Uh, you have a UFO, you target the UFO.

[1:58:02] It's not huge. It's sort of a medium

[1:58:06] size UFO. And the entities on board all

[1:58:10] look the same. And there might be 12, 15

[1:58:15] on board. And they

[1:58:18] stop the engine of a car and they take

[1:58:20] grandma out of the front seat

[1:58:23] >> and they just instantly move her from

[1:58:26] that front seat to the inside of the

[1:58:28] UFO.

[1:58:30] They take uh blood, maybe some genetic

[1:58:33] material from her. The whole time she's

[1:58:36] completely terrified

[1:58:38] and immobile. She can't move. They've

[1:58:41] probably stun the the uh the

[1:58:45] >> nervous system

[1:58:46] >> the nervous system in some way. So,

[1:58:48] nothing works.

[1:58:50] She's she's watching all this and she's

[1:58:53] hearing some form of communication

[1:58:56] between these robotic entities, but

[1:58:58] they're totally indifferent to her. It's

[1:59:00] like she they don't care. She's laying

[1:59:04] there. they doing their thing and they

[1:59:06] don't take care of her. They don't look

[1:59:08] at her. They don't do anything nice.

[1:59:10] They just take a snippet here or blood

[1:59:14] here or whatever to get the genetic

[1:59:17] material and then she goes to sleep,

[1:59:20] wakes up in the car and doesn't know

[1:59:22] what happened.

[1:59:23] >> Uhhuh.

[1:59:23] >> And she's 85 miles from where she should

[1:59:26] be. Um that that's kind of the idea

[1:59:30] here. But they collect this data. The

[1:59:33] data goes into this UFO or whatever you

[1:59:36] want to call it and once a month it

[1:59:40] targets and dumps all that information

[1:59:42] into another UFO.

[1:59:45] >> That UFO was way bigger. It has an

[1:59:49] actual entity in it. And that entity may

[1:59:53] look somewhat like one of the other

[1:59:56] entities that we're talking about, but

[1:59:59] it's

[1:59:59] >> so like the ones you hear about. Yeah.

[2:00:01] Or do you think they're you hear these

[2:00:03] days I feel like you're hearing a lot

[2:00:05] more about human very humanike ones as

[2:00:07] well,

[2:00:08] >> right?

[2:00:09] >> Because we're probably

[2:00:11] we're probably getting closer and closer

[2:00:13] to the point where

[2:00:17] um that they'll

[2:00:20] we'll be able to know the answers

[2:00:24] uh and and know that the one entity is

[2:00:28] telling us whatever they want us to

[2:00:30] know. Okay.

[2:00:32] >> It's

[2:00:33] the the pro here's my problem. When when

[2:00:36] I was targeting this UFO, I had an

[2:00:39] expectation for the same thing.

[2:00:41] >> Yeah.

[2:00:42] >> Um it it was a kind of this uh sudden

[2:00:48] shearing away of my

[2:00:51] mental activity from the UFO. Like it's

[2:00:54] hard to explain. It's like cutting a a a

[2:00:57] tow rope or something was holding me up

[2:01:00] against it.

[2:01:02] >> Um was severed and

[2:01:06] non detached.

[2:01:08] And as soon as that happened, I had the

[2:01:10] memory of what I had seen up to that

[2:01:12] point. And from that point on, I had an

[2:01:15] image of uh an object of some kind. And

[2:01:20] what it was, I don't know if you

[2:01:21] remember the old peace symbol. Well, you

[2:01:23] >> Oh, yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. From Vietnam.

[2:01:25] >> Sure.

[2:01:26] >> Yeah. Okay. There was the upside down Y

[2:01:28] >> with the third

[2:01:30] >> fourth line.

[2:01:31] >> Yeah.

[2:01:31] >> Well, there's no fourth line. It's just

[2:01:34] an upside down line.

[2:01:35] >> Okay.

[2:01:36] >> No circle,

[2:01:38] >> just the upside down line.

[2:01:39] >> That's what the UFO was shaping.

[2:01:40] >> That's what I started picking up when I

[2:01:43] could no longer get into the UFO or see

[2:01:46] anything else.

[2:01:47] >> Sure.

[2:01:48] So,

[2:01:50] it was really hard to deal with because

[2:01:53] I expect information when I'm target

[2:01:56] targeting something, but I didn't get

[2:01:58] it. I just kept getting that symbol.

[2:02:02] >> And over time, I had an maybe 6 months

[2:02:06] later,

[2:02:07] I had this uh epiphany working on it

[2:02:11] before I went to sleep. And that that

[2:02:15] night um

[2:02:20] that night it changed because I was

[2:02:23] sitting in my office. I was working on

[2:02:26] something else and I had this my sketch

[2:02:30] of this thing I've been using for like

[2:02:32] six or seven months. I was I kept

[2:02:35] looking at it and then I looked to the

[2:02:38] left. There was a a box laying on the

[2:02:41] floor. It was empty box

[2:02:45] and I went, "Oh my god, I could see it."

[2:02:49] It's the outside corner of an empty box.

[2:02:53] >> Ah,

[2:02:54] >> you know the lines.

[2:02:55] >> Yeah.

[2:02:56] >> So if you're looking outside at the

[2:02:58] corner,

[2:03:00] you're looking inside. Same thing.

[2:03:02] >> Okay.

[2:03:03] >> So they they gave me something where

[2:03:05] perception starts and ends.

[2:03:08] Ah, so they're telling you this is like

[2:03:09] the edge of what you're able to

[2:03:11] perceive.

[2:03:12] >> Yeah, this is the start. Start, but this

[2:03:15] is the end.

[2:03:16] >> So, as soon as that happened, I started

[2:03:19] getting three little blocks, all

[2:03:22] identical little little

[2:03:25] they were all the same size,

[2:03:28] all I guess six-sided.

[2:03:32] And I couldn't figure out why. So,

[2:03:35] another six months goes by and I'm

[2:03:37] pounding away on that. And and when I

[2:03:39] get when I get a target where it's

[2:03:41] really hard to get information, what I

[2:03:42] do is I approach it in a very soft way

[2:03:46] and I just every now and then I'll just

[2:03:49] look and sometimes you can catch

[2:03:53] whatever offguard,

[2:03:55] so to speak.

[2:03:57] >> And so I was doing that for a long time

[2:03:59] and and I woke up in the middle of the

[2:04:01] night one night. I I had a dream. I was

[2:04:04] 3 years old and back in this home that I

[2:04:08] I was in when I was born in Miami,

[2:04:12] Florida. And back in the home, I was

[2:04:15] trying to sort how the rooms are set up.

[2:04:18] Uh so I have this great mind for detail.

[2:04:22] Yeah. Like I can go back to H

[2:04:25] one and a half. I think even one.

[2:04:29] >> Wow. uh and and could prove it. But

[2:04:33] anyway, I'm having this thought.

[2:04:37] My mother walks in and gives me this

[2:04:39] this uh these three blocks and they were

[2:04:43] outlined in red each side and it had

[2:04:46] >> A B Yeah.

[2:04:48] >> C and the other one was like one, two,

[2:04:51] three, that kind of thing.

[2:04:53] >> I went, "Oh god." You know, as soon as I

[2:04:56] had that, as soon as I rocked it, it

[2:04:59] changed again.

[2:05:00] >> H

[2:05:01] >> Now I got different size blocks,

[2:05:03] different different shape blocks, and

[2:05:07] they're all just white except for one

[2:05:11] shape. It has a special line on it. It

[2:05:14] goes like this, like a hook desk in the

[2:05:18] top.

[2:05:19] >> Okay.

[2:05:21] >> I don't know what it means.

[2:05:22] >> H

[2:05:23] >> I'm working on that. And I'm thinking, I

[2:05:26] must be

[2:05:28] the dumbest kid in the class because

[2:05:31] it's taking me months to figure this

[2:05:34] crap out,

[2:05:35] >> man. Yeah.

[2:05:36] >> And it's driving me crazy.

[2:05:38] >> Well, yeah. It's It's incredibly

[2:05:40] fascinating. So So what you're saying is

[2:05:42] you feel like when you are getting close

[2:05:44] to one of these anomalous targets, it's

[2:05:46] a it's so at the edge of human

[2:05:48] perception that it starts sending you

[2:05:50] this kind of symbolic

[2:05:51] >> Yeah. material. It's like you gota you

[2:05:55] got to approach it a certain way.

[2:05:57] >> Yeah.

[2:05:58] >> And and so I see I don't think these are

[2:06:02] >> uh I don't think I'm being trained in

[2:06:05] some way, but what it's basically

[2:06:08] telling me is the way you approach this

[2:06:11] and the way you use this and that

[2:06:15] >> has to be a certain dynamic. And so I'm

[2:06:18] getting this feel for how to open to the

[2:06:22] target.

[2:06:23] >> It almost seems like a statement about

[2:06:25] language, you know, because

[2:06:26] >> Well, it is because we have language.

[2:06:29] They probably have language, but two two

[2:06:32] will never meet.

[2:06:33] >> Yeah. Right.

[2:06:34] >> And the other part,

[2:06:37] um, conceptually speaking,

[2:06:41] concepts are the hardest thing in the

[2:06:42] world to remote view. where you where

[2:06:46] you have to hammer on concepts deals

[2:06:48] with future targets.

[2:06:50] >> Past targets piece of cake. You go back

[2:06:52] 30,000 100,000 years. Doesn't matter

[2:06:55] >> what you've done. Yeah.

[2:06:56] >> Because concepts exist for everything

[2:06:59] behind us.

[2:07:00] >> Mhm.

[2:07:01] >> In time, but going forward,

[2:07:03] no, that's all new,

[2:07:05] >> right? So it the way I like to explain

[2:07:08] it and I I talk about this in the class

[2:07:11] because I don't want people starting

[2:07:13] with future targets. I want them

[2:07:15] starting with past target. They learn

[2:07:18] more um but going into the future what

[2:07:22] you what's really happening is

[2:07:26] uh you're getting information and you

[2:07:27] can describe something perfectly and

[2:07:30] everybody looks at you and say you are

[2:07:32] insane.

[2:07:34] Okay. Cuz it there's no way,

[2:07:37] >> right? Yeah. What are you talking about?

[2:07:38] >> One of those examples would be 1975

[2:07:42] and you target a a specific room in

[2:07:45] Sylvania Corporation.

[2:07:47] >> Mhm.

[2:07:48] >> And it's making a loud B. It's making a

[2:07:50] sound sound like like that.

[2:07:53] >> Yeah.

[2:07:54] >> And there's roing

[2:07:56] fluid almost, but it's more like a gas.

[2:08:00] And there's all different colors popping

[2:08:03] in and out of reality. And out of the

[2:08:06] end is a super I mean absolute white

[2:08:09] light. So pure it looks like uh it's

[2:08:14] about that big around.

[2:08:17] >> Okay.

[2:08:17] >> And it's chewing through stainless

[2:08:20] steel.

[2:08:22] So it's a pump laser.

[2:08:23] >> Uhhuh. And you could describe it to a

[2:08:26] tea, but because no one has ever seen

[2:08:29] one, they go

[2:08:32] light cutting up steel. You're freaking

[2:08:35] nuts.

[2:08:36] >> Yeah.

[2:08:37] >> Okay. That's the difficulty,

[2:08:39] >> right? Well, I think that's the

[2:08:42] difficulty when you target a true alien

[2:08:45] in their saucer that you don't the the

[2:08:50] conceptual

[2:08:53] arrangement of things, the way things

[2:08:55] work

[2:08:56] >> is is mystifying. It's It's like walking

[2:09:00] into a uh I don't know uh a different

[2:09:05] world and then trying to figure out how

[2:09:08] to explain that to somebody. Uh so what

[2:09:12] I think's going on is I'm being shown

[2:09:16] how to properly approach something from

[2:09:19] a processing standpoint. Mhm.

[2:09:21] >> Uh now when we teach remote viewing here

[2:09:25] at the institute

[2:09:28] um we we have a special way of

[2:09:30] processing material.

[2:09:32] You you can't name it. You can only

[2:09:34] describe it. Okay? And and

[2:09:39] people

[2:09:41] will sometimes have a target that

[2:09:44] uh they'll say what it is. they they get

[2:09:47] the fullest stall right in the face and

[2:09:50] they'll say what it is and they'll be

[2:09:52] right. But that's not how you approach a

[2:09:57] remote viewing target. You can't say

[2:10:00] what it is. You have to describe it in

[2:10:02] great detail because in more cases than

[2:10:05] not, that's how you get targets in

[2:10:07] remote viewing

[2:10:08] >> is they have to be described. You cannot

[2:10:11] can't make assumptions. So, uh, I think

[2:10:15] it's the same thing with the aliens.

[2:10:17] >> Yeah.

[2:10:18] >> So, for Pat Price to say, "Oh, no, these

[2:10:20] are alien sites." This, you know, say,

[2:10:22] No, I don't think he understood. I think

[2:10:26] he was No, he was he knew he was working

[2:10:30] sites that he couldn't understand.

[2:10:33] >> So,

[2:10:33] >> that that really makes a lot of sense.

[2:10:35] >> Yes, that's what he did. You know, the

[2:10:37] other intersection of this I would

[2:10:39] absolutely love to hear your thoughts on

[2:10:41] is there's so much lore at least or

[2:10:45] reports that whatever is going on with

[2:10:47] UFOs, it's heavily tied into

[2:10:49] consciousness

[2:10:50] >> and whatever is piloting these things

[2:10:53] and and all the problem with all this is

[2:10:54] it's what stories you choose to believe,

[2:10:56] right? Like do you believe Bob Lazar? Do

[2:10:58] you believe uh Jim Lacatsky from the

[2:11:00] DIA? Do you believe all these people?

[2:11:03] It's hard to know, but one of the things

[2:11:04] you hear often is that

[2:11:06] >> somehow the mind

[2:11:08] >> is doing something almost like the the

[2:11:10] the craft is like an extension of the

[2:11:12] mind. And that means and if that's true,

[2:11:17] we probably don't have the psychical

[2:11:18] capacities to understand what would be

[2:11:20] involved in

[2:11:22] >> projecting our consciousness into a

[2:11:23] craft. But have you gotten any sense of

[2:11:25] this?

[2:11:25] >> Yeah, there's there where's the pilot

[2:11:28] station? It has none. It's like the the

[2:11:32] in in the case of a UFO, in most cases,

[2:11:36] the robotic part, the entities that are

[2:11:40] robotic are somehow linked to the

[2:11:43] robotic ship.

[2:11:45] >> And so, so there's no controls. It's

[2:11:47] like they are the control. They exist

[2:11:50] for both

[2:11:51] >> doing the job, being the pilot, all of

[2:11:54] that. And then when the job's done,

[2:11:56] they're gone and they just have the

[2:11:58] pilot left. And then maybe that pilot's

[2:12:01] replaces from somebody when they do a

[2:12:04] different kind of job. I don't know.

[2:12:05] >> Yeah.

[2:12:06] >> But there's this relationship between

[2:12:08] the entity and the ship.

[2:12:10] >> But then there's the same relationship

[2:12:12] between the one that has the actual

[2:12:17] entity on board

[2:12:19] differentiating from the robot. Okay.

[2:12:22] Robotic entity. But that that

[2:12:25] relationship is completely different.

[2:12:28] And in that case, there seems to be a

[2:12:31] specific point within the ship they have

[2:12:35] to be in to control it. So, so it a lot

[2:12:39] of little details change.

[2:12:41] >> Yeah.

[2:12:42] >> When you're going from the robotic to

[2:12:43] the real. And And the other thing that's

[2:12:46] kind of kind of weird,

[2:12:49] um, in in two cases, I was able to see

[2:12:54] see and see I use the term see.

[2:12:57] >> Yeah. Yeah. And that confuses people

[2:12:59] too. I was able to to understand

[2:13:03] that there was a uh

[2:13:07] uh something something hanging and I

[2:13:10] can't exactly say how it was hanging but

[2:13:13] it was hanging and it it almost felt

[2:13:16] like a it uh

[2:13:19] um a uh

[2:13:21] >> chandelier or

[2:13:22] >> No, it was more like shower curtain that

[2:13:26] had been cut certain ways.

[2:13:28] >> Okay. Okay. It It had a plastic feel to

[2:13:32] it, but it wasn't plastic. It also had

[2:13:35] the feel to it that it was part of the

[2:13:38] alien identity.

[2:13:40] >> Wow.

[2:13:41] >> And so it may be

[2:13:44] uh a suit or a piece of clothing or

[2:13:47] something that they wear when they're

[2:13:50] not in their vehicle.

[2:13:51] >> So it would be a biological suit.

[2:13:54] >> Wow.

[2:13:54] >> Maybe

[2:13:55] >> maybe there's like like a cognitive

[2:13:57] aspect to this. material almost,

[2:14:00] >> right? It it too is living.

[2:14:02] >> Wow.

[2:14:03] >> So they see they've mastered the ability

[2:14:05] to use living things

[2:14:08] >> as as part of their controls. They've

[2:14:12] mastered a lot of that and but they they

[2:14:15] don't it's like they don't uh

[2:14:21] I don't know. They're coming out of a

[2:14:23] whole left field. It's hard to explain.

[2:14:25] >> Yeah. Yeah. Very just what could be more

[2:14:27] foreign, right? something that has a

[2:14:29] completely

[2:14:30] >> different or so hyperfuturistic kind of

[2:14:33] technology that we can't even

[2:14:35] >> wrap our minds around it. So you you

[2:14:37] said the mission

[2:14:38] >> before

[2:14:39] >> and you did mention the sort of

[2:14:41] classical abduction

[2:14:42] >> type of scenario.

[2:14:45] >> Do you think the mission broadly is

[2:14:47] monitoring or controlling or do you have

[2:14:51] a sense of that? Yeah.

[2:14:53] >> Well, yeah. I mean

[2:14:58] there there is a lot of evidence and now

[2:15:01] this is not evidence I've collected but

[2:15:04] it's certainly evidence that other

[2:15:05] people have collected a lot of evidence

[2:15:08] that they have had full contact with

[2:15:11] humans

[2:15:14] and many of the humans they had full

[2:15:16] contact with aren't here anymore.

[2:15:19] >> They have vanished with the UFO.

[2:15:23] So

[2:15:26] there there's it's not an assumption,

[2:15:28] but there's something you can actually

[2:15:32] uh measure about that interaction. And I

[2:15:35] think it has to do with uh uh what they

[2:15:38] need that individual for. Uh there

[2:15:42] there's a couple cases out of Juno,

[2:15:44] Alaska, and and uh one out of I think

[2:15:49] it's Wyoming, but I'm not sure. I don't

[2:15:53] want to say it's Wyoming, but one of the

[2:15:56] states in the lower lower 48 and Juno,

[2:15:59] Alaska, where

[2:16:02] uh

[2:16:04] people have in in relationship with

[2:16:07] someone else has

[2:16:10] uh disappeared basically right out of

[2:16:14] the house sharing.

[2:16:16] >> Wow. And in in both cases, front door is

[2:16:20] locked, side door, back door,

[2:16:22] everything's sealed, the windows are

[2:16:25] locked. And yet the morning when the

[2:16:27] other person gets up and walks out to

[2:16:31] find their friend. Uh none of the locks

[2:16:35] are open, broken, or busted or anything

[2:16:38] else, but the person's just not there

[2:16:40] anymore.

[2:16:41] >> Wow. And

[2:16:43] to the extent that the sheriff's call,

[2:16:46] the police chief has called or the local

[2:16:49] military commander has called and they

[2:16:51] come and they inspect and it's true.

[2:16:56] No, it only the prince of the person

[2:16:58] that's still there on the locks and the

[2:17:01] >> Wow.

[2:17:01] >> Uh and in the windows and things and the

[2:17:05] person just vanished. Um um so so

[2:17:10] they're abducting people permanently.

[2:17:13] >> M

[2:17:15] it would it would look that way.

[2:17:17] >> Yeah.

[2:17:18] >> So

[2:17:19] >> why?

[2:17:20] >> Yeah. I don't know. I mean one could

[2:17:22] guess but

[2:17:23] >> my

[2:17:25] well my my

[2:17:29] thought. I have an idea.

[2:17:32] I if it's really hard to get that one

[2:17:35] entity here from another star

[2:17:40] and you really want the

[2:17:42] uh human species to join everybody else

[2:17:47] out there, then we have to change. We

[2:17:51] have to become more mature.

[2:17:54] Maybe they can't transfer enough people

[2:17:57] to tell to tell us that or teach us that

[2:18:00] or in some way display that. Yeah.

[2:18:02] >> So, the thing to do would be to abduct

[2:18:07] someone that the one energy could then

[2:18:12] produce offspring from

[2:18:16] to eventually create

[2:18:19] >> enough

[2:18:20] >> hybrids.

[2:18:21] >> Hybrids here that they could then

[2:18:23] interoperate with us

[2:18:26] and and we would know more about them. I

[2:18:28] I don't know. But it would change it

[2:18:31] would genetically change everything

[2:18:34] about humans

[2:18:36] over a very slow process.

[2:18:39] >> And everything they do is slow process,

[2:18:41] >> right? Yeah. I mean that would be the

[2:18:44] only way to slowly

[2:18:46] exert influence without being noticed

[2:18:48] would be to do things very slowly

[2:18:50] because it, you know, there's a classic

[2:18:52] question of like, okay, if they're here,

[2:18:54] they're more powerful. Where are they?

[2:18:56] Why don't they make their presence

[2:18:57] known? And maybe they're trying to

[2:19:00] monitor without interfering for some

[2:19:02] reason or there's some kind of

[2:19:03] evolutionary process that needs to

[2:19:05] occur.

[2:19:06] >> Yeah.

[2:19:07] >> Over a long period of time or through

[2:19:09] our own agency or something.

[2:19:11] >> Right. Exactly.

[2:19:12] >> And and

[2:19:14] it it's just so when it comes to I hate

[2:19:17] I hate targeting UFOs. I I really do. I

[2:19:20] I get angry. It's like uh I was here

[2:19:24] learning to control my auto bodies long

[2:19:27] weekends. I come here at midnight on

[2:19:30] Friday, I'm sorry, on Thursday night uh

[2:19:33] from Fort me.

[2:19:35] >> Uh they hired Bob Monroe to teach me how

[2:19:38] to control my out of bodies. And

[2:19:40] >> so all day Friday, Saturday, Sunday, we

[2:19:42] work on that and then I'd be back I'd

[2:19:45] leave at 4 in the morning on Monday and

[2:19:47] I'd be back doing remote viewing. So, I

[2:19:50] didn't I didn't have a day off for like

[2:19:52] a year and a half.

[2:19:53] >> Yeah.

[2:19:54] >> And I'm slower.

[2:19:56] >> Yeah.

[2:19:56] >> So, Bob and I are beating our heads

[2:19:59] against the wall trying to get me to do

[2:20:01] this

[2:20:02] uh and be successful

[2:20:05] uh at the bequest of uh uh the DoD. And

[2:20:09] right in the middle of all that, uh Bob

[2:20:12] wakes me. I'm taking a nap on a Saturday

[2:20:15] afternoon in the black cube over in the

[2:20:17] lab. Mhm.

[2:20:19] >> And uh Bob wakes me up. He says, "Some

[2:20:22] of your pals are here from DoD."

[2:20:25] And I said, "Pals,

[2:20:27] what are what are you talking about?" He

[2:20:29] said, "Well, they brought a target they

[2:20:31] want you to do."

[2:20:32] >> Mhm. Mhm.

[2:20:32] >> So I did the target and it was a UFO.

[2:20:37] Um, in in the processes of doing the

[2:20:40] target,

[2:20:42] I they had a card or something had GPS's

[2:20:46] written on it, seven GPS's. So, they're

[2:20:50] giving me the GPS's one at a time. And I

[2:20:52] immediately said, "Oh, this is a new

[2:20:54] discovery."

[2:20:56] And Bob says, "What are you talking

[2:20:57] about?" I said, "This is a a another

[2:21:01] pyramid,

[2:21:03] >> but it's bigger than Gizo." So, how in

[2:21:06] the hell did they hide this on the

[2:21:08] planet that we just discovered it? I

[2:21:12] actually thought it was this is a new

[2:21:14] discovery, but it's like larger than

[2:21:16] Giza, so why didn't we find it sooner?

[2:21:19] Yep, that was going through my head. And

[2:21:22] uh it turns out that there were other

[2:21:25] things, too. And uh I started picking up

[2:21:29] on an impact crater.

[2:21:31] >> Oh, wow. And so I'm I'm trying to figure

[2:21:34] out where the hell I am on the planet. I

[2:21:37] didn't know they had GPS's for all round

[2:21:43] objects in our entire universe.

[2:21:45] >> Whoa.

[2:21:46] >> Our sun, our solar system.

[2:21:48] >> So they have GPS for other planets.

[2:21:50] >> Yeah, planets have their own GPS system.

[2:21:52] I didn't know that.

[2:21:53] >> Do do they send satellites around to do

[2:21:55] that or how is how do they do that? They

[2:21:57] they right now there's a Mars surveyor

[2:22:01] that's been mapping it for years.

[2:22:04] >> Wow.

[2:22:04] >> And and the mapping is done with a

[2:22:07] camera from overhead and the 4x4

[2:22:11] negatives what they have for it. And on

[2:22:14] the outside edge of the negatives they

[2:22:16] have the GPS sticks. H.

[2:22:18] >> So

[2:22:21] they have all this mapping from Mars and

[2:22:24] uh each one of these 4x4s

[2:22:28] uh is on the ground is like 100 square

[2:22:31] yards or 100 square feet. I can't

[2:22:33] remember now which but it's a 100 or so.

[2:22:37] No uh not yards I'm sorry miles. It's

[2:22:41] 100 miles. So, uh,

[2:22:46] in this mapping,

[2:22:48] uh, that's where the target came from.

[2:22:50] >> Mhm.

[2:22:51] >> Well, I didn't know that. So, I'm I'm

[2:22:54] seeing this giant pyramid

[2:22:56] >> and then I'm talking about, uh, a sense

[2:22:59] of uh, people in the pyramid uh, being

[2:23:04] in machines against the wall of the

[2:23:07] pyramid

[2:23:08] uh, where they're trying to survive. Uh,

[2:23:11] so it's a adaptation kind of thing,

[2:23:14] waiting for help.

[2:23:17] And at some point I said to Bob, uh, the

[2:23:21] sun looks really weird.

[2:23:23] >> And he his comment was, I don't care

[2:23:25] about the sun. Go back to the pyramid.

[2:23:27] >> Yeah. Right. Yeah.

[2:23:28] >> So,

[2:23:28] >> yeah.

[2:23:29] >> Anyway, we worked on these locations for

[2:23:33] a couple hours and I got tired. So, I

[2:23:36] never did number seven. I did one

[2:23:38] through six. So when I came out, I said

[2:23:41] that, you know, I'm I've got humans

[2:23:45] look just like everybody in the room.

[2:23:47] Yeah.

[2:23:47] >> But they're 15t tall.

[2:23:50] >> And everybody went, "Whoa." Nobody

[2:23:53] expected that.

[2:23:54] >> And uh you would think the people

[2:23:57] waiting outside would be the ones who

[2:24:00] designed or figured on what the

[2:24:02] targeting would be.

[2:24:03] >> Yeah.

[2:24:03] >> No, they didn't know what the target

[2:24:06] was. So it was sent from uh Fort me. So

[2:24:11] Bob had the carding envelope in his

[2:24:13] pocket. So I opened it up and it said

[2:24:17] Mars 1 million BC.

[2:24:19] >> Yeah. I love that story. Yeah.

[2:24:20] >> I got angry as hell. And it surprised

[2:24:23] everybody.

[2:24:24] >> I said now how how in the hell am I

[2:24:29] going to say this was correct or this

[2:24:32] was good or this was bad or whatever?

[2:24:35] >> Mhm. Mhm.

[2:24:36] >> I got no way of proving anything.

[2:24:38] >> Yeah.

[2:24:39] >> So, I kept everything and I said, "Next

[2:24:43] time I'm in on the West Coast, I'm going

[2:24:45] to JPL, Jeff Lab."

[2:24:47] >> Yeah.

[2:24:48] >> And that that's they're running the

[2:24:50] mapping satellite. So, I'm going to get

[2:24:52] the 4x4s

[2:24:53] and I'm going to look at those

[2:24:55] locations.

[2:24:56] And uh they said, "Ah, they'll never get

[2:24:59] it to you." So, I went to JPL four

[2:25:02] months later and they have this big

[2:25:05] serving counter and there's a guy behind

[2:25:06] it. I walked up and I said, "U, I need I

[2:25:10] need to buy some 4x4 negatives." He

[2:25:14] said, "Uh, which area?" I said, "I don't

[2:25:17] know, but I had these GPS locations."

[2:25:20] And I hand him the card and he went he

[2:25:22] looked at his card and he said, "Oh,

[2:25:25] that's the old old city on Mars."

[2:25:29] Yeah. I I've always wanted to ask me out

[2:25:31] of the box.

[2:25:31] >> Yeah. I've always wanted to ask you

[2:25:33] about this with this story. Like so at

[2:25:36] some point people mainstream people were

[2:25:39] acknowledging this as real. That's so

[2:25:42] crazy.

[2:25:42] >> They he opened the drawer. He said, "Oh,

[2:25:44] that's the old city of Mars." He pulled

[2:25:46] a drawer up and hand me a packet. He

[2:25:49] already had all the 4x4s in it and

[2:25:51] everything. I brought it back. I took it

[2:25:54] to a photography place and I said, "At

[2:25:57] these locations, blow it up to where

[2:25:59] it's uh observable. You could tell what

[2:26:02] it is, but no bigger." And uh call me

[2:26:07] when you have all those done. And so

[2:26:11] they did all six, and all six match my

[2:26:13] sketches.

[2:26:14] >> Wow, that's amazing.

[2:26:16] >> Uh yeah.

[2:26:17] >> Now, now I got something I work with,

[2:26:20] right?

[2:26:20] >> Right. Well, I'm an intelligence

[2:26:22] officer, so

[2:26:25] I figure somebody at JPL knows what's

[2:26:29] going on.

[2:26:30] >> It sounds like it.

[2:26:31] >> Yeah.

[2:26:31] >> So,

[2:26:32] >> so that that gets to the big question of

[2:26:34] how much do you think

[2:26:35] >> people know about

[2:26:38] >> our relationship with them, uh, all the

[2:26:41] other things because obviously

[2:26:43] disclosure is a big topic right now.

[2:26:45] There's this mainstream movement. I

[2:26:48] think a lot of people look at it like I

[2:26:51] mean I as someone interested in this

[2:26:52] topic look at it with side eye and worry

[2:26:55] about narrative being manipulated and um

[2:26:59] you know a very doctorred kind of

[2:27:01] disclosure coming through

[2:27:03] >> and I suspect we are

[2:27:05] >> I think we are being manipulated but um

[2:27:10] once I had the the proof then I went I

[2:27:14] went through uh it was LinkedIn or

[2:27:18] something I looked for somebody who

[2:27:19] worked to JPL.

[2:27:20] >> Mhm.

[2:27:21] >> And I have a friend there now. And for

[2:27:25] the last 6 years, we've been studying

[2:27:28] these 4x4s.

[2:27:30] And I have about a hundred photos of

[2:27:34] things that should not be on Mars.

[2:27:36] >> Well, you must have much better quality

[2:27:38] ones now, right?

[2:27:39] >> Very high quality. Really? Wow. Yeah.

[2:27:41] One one uh found it by accident. it in

[2:27:46] the entire 100 by 100 miles. It there's

[2:27:50] nothing there. It just basically one

[2:27:53] humongous impact crater. But to the left

[2:27:57] of the impact crater, if you're really

[2:27:59] studying the full-size photo, what you

[2:28:03] see over here is a little black speck.

[2:28:06] And it's very visible because it's in

[2:28:08] the middle of a sea of white sand mouse

[2:28:12] >> just right in the center.

[2:28:14] So, I I went I blew that up. And what it

[2:28:18] is, it's a shipping container.

[2:28:21] >> Shipping containers.

[2:28:24] Uh you can overlay a grid that tells you

[2:28:27] what the measurements are between the

[2:28:29] grid lines.

[2:28:30] >> Mhm.

[2:28:31] >> Uh in that the size that I had blown up

[2:28:34] to, I blew it the grid up and the grid

[2:28:38] is uh lines separated by about 18 in.

[2:28:43] So,

[2:28:45] you know, 18 in

[2:28:48] gives you a measurement on the shipping

[2:28:50] container of somewhere around uh 15 ft

[2:28:56] uh 15 ft tall, 33 feet long, and about

[2:29:00] 12 1/2 ft wide.

[2:29:02] >> It's got two doors on it.

[2:29:04] >> Do you think this is an ancient shipping

[2:29:06] container or

[2:29:07] >> Absolutely. It is an ancient one.

[2:29:10] >> Wow. And obviously it's very big and

[2:29:14] very heavy. So how did it get there?

[2:29:18] >> Yeah, man. That's

[2:29:19] >> I have a picture. I have a picture. You

[2:29:21] know the big soup spoons that you stir

[2:29:24] big pots?

[2:29:26] >> Like if you were making a soup for the

[2:29:29] >> needy.

[2:29:30] >> Sure.

[2:29:30] >> You'd have this giant spoon. Well, I

[2:29:32] have a picture of a giant spoon. The the

[2:29:35] butt end of it is jammed in these rocks

[2:29:37] and it's just sitting there. I gotta see

[2:29:40] these pictures.

[2:29:42] I gotta see these pictures.

[2:29:44] >> Those two I can probably arrange.

[2:29:46] >> So, last question on this topic. Do do

[2:29:49] you think then there are

[2:29:52] >> people high up within the government,

[2:29:54] intelligence agencies,

[2:29:56] maybe private defense contractors who

[2:29:58] know the extent of our relationship with

[2:30:02] it, or do you think we're really all

[2:30:04] kind of like grasping at straws to

[2:30:05] figure out what's going on? I think it's

[2:30:08] really hard to make a deduction from the

[2:30:11] amount of information we have,

[2:30:14] but I do know for a fact that there is a

[2:30:17] lot of people who know about it. Okay.

[2:30:21] And I think that knowing about it

[2:30:24] doesn't give us an answer.

[2:30:27] So, right,

[2:30:29] >> they're sitting there waiting for

[2:30:31] something big to happen with it.

[2:30:33] >> Mhm. to to to understand it better.

[2:30:37] Uh I I do know that there is a like a

[2:30:42] huge push to to try to understand the

[2:30:47] rap the validity of this information.

[2:30:50] >> Right?

[2:30:52] It could be, and I'm just saying it

[2:30:54] could be, that everything we find on

[2:30:57] Mars,

[2:30:59] uh, if we were to go there and see it

[2:31:01] all, everything we might find on Mars

[2:31:05] could be, um,

[2:31:08] um, stuff that we just

[2:31:12] it's tool. It just goes back a long way.

[2:31:16] Um the the pictures I have of what

[2:31:19] appear to be machines or something like

[2:31:22] uh vehicles maybe they're sitting on the

[2:31:25] sides of dirt roads. The dirt roads go

[2:31:28] into openings in the sides of uh impact

[2:31:32] craters. So they obviously are mining

[2:31:35] things at some point.

[2:31:37] >> But th those uh machines are so badly

[2:31:41] damaged it it uh it's hard to tell what

[2:31:44] it was. Yeah.

[2:31:46] >> Um there's evidence that

[2:31:49] uh something happened very quickly.

[2:31:53] Uh

[2:31:55] did a lot of damage.

[2:31:58] Uh but I mean it it's almost funny when

[2:32:02] you look at some of these photos cuz you

[2:32:05] have a a you know a perfect mound of

[2:32:10] sand. I mean, it's like, you know,

[2:32:12] somebody just poured it out there.

[2:32:15] Perfectly smooth mound all the way

[2:32:17] around. And there's a group of them and

[2:32:20] it's all white sand.

[2:32:22] >> Over here, there's another group of

[2:32:24] them. It's all black sand.

[2:32:27] >> Wow.

[2:32:27] >> How do you separate? No, mother nature

[2:32:30] doesn't do that.

[2:32:31] >> Yeah, that's very

[2:32:32] >> There's an impact crater that's 200

[2:32:34] miles across. A monster impact crater.

[2:32:38] And coming right out of the middle is a

[2:32:40] line goes all the way halfway across.

[2:32:44] At halfway across it's covered by rock.

[2:32:47] >> But this line is a perfect 90° turn.

[2:32:53] 100 miles of perfect turn.

[2:32:56] >> Yeah, that's also not natural.

[2:32:58] >> Never going to happen in mother nature.

[2:33:00] >> But the most interesting thing is

[2:33:02] probably the one I'll send you a picture

[2:33:04] of.

[2:33:04] >> Okay, please do. uh impact crater and

[2:33:08] and the impact crater on opposite sides

[2:33:11] has been ground down

[2:33:15] exactly the same way on both ends to the

[2:33:19] center on both sides and there's a road

[2:33:23] runs through the heart of it straight as

[2:33:26] an arrow right through there.

[2:33:29] But that's not the the cool part. The

[2:33:31] cool part is

[2:33:34] um it and when you have it at a certain

[2:33:37] size, every time you change the size,

[2:33:40] you change the shadow right

[2:33:43] >> on the the ridge.

[2:33:45] But that's okay because the overlay

[2:33:48] grid's the same for each time you change

[2:33:51] it. As is the uh well, everything's the

[2:33:56] same. Nothing changes. It's like scaling

[2:33:59] up or scaling down.

[2:34:01] So on the right hand side you can see a

[2:34:04] triangular piece of land comes off the

[2:34:08] impact crater wall at the top not at the

[2:34:11] bottom comes off the wall at the top and

[2:34:14] it's triangular and goes back in. And in

[2:34:18] the middle of that is a foursided

[2:34:22] pyramid.

[2:34:24] So you're looking straight down on it

[2:34:25] because the sides are perfectly even.

[2:34:29] Okay. Each segment is the same.

[2:34:32] >> Mhm.

[2:34:34] >> The shadow in the wall is quarter inch.

[2:34:38] The quarter inch, if you compute where

[2:34:41] the camera was with the sun and all

[2:34:43] that, tells you that it's somewhere in

[2:34:46] the neighborhood of 600

[2:34:48] 800 ft.

[2:34:49] >> Wow.

[2:34:50] >> Quarter inch. That's the impact crater

[2:34:52] wall.

[2:34:54] 7 or 800 ft.

[2:34:56] The pyramid.

[2:34:59] Okay. Is in a pyramid. It has a shadow

[2:35:02] of two and a/4 in.

[2:35:05] >> Whoa.

[2:35:06] >> It's a shard. This thing sticks straight

[2:35:08] up into the air.

[2:35:10] >> Yeah.

[2:35:10] >> And it starts out with a with a base

[2:35:14] evensided base and goes way up into the

[2:35:18] air.

[2:35:19] >> Well, I actually went back to JPL with

[2:35:21] that one picture and I said,

[2:35:24] >> "What's that?"

[2:35:26] >> Yeah. And the guy said, "We don't know."

[2:35:30] And I said, "Come on, you must have a

[2:35:33] theory." He said, "Well, we do. We think

[2:35:36] it grew there."

[2:35:38] >> That's insane.

[2:35:40] >> Sorry. That's ridiculous.

[2:35:42] >> Yeah.

[2:35:42] >> If it grew there.

[2:35:44] >> Wow.

[2:35:44] >> But you can see it. It's right there.

[2:35:46] >> That is wild. That is so wild.

[2:35:49] >> Yeah. One more topic I want to at least

[2:35:51] touch on with you is

[2:35:54] >> I and many people I think they they have

[2:35:57] such a hard time believing

[2:35:59] >> that in 1995 all of the interest in SAI

[2:36:03] within you know the intelligence world

[2:36:06] and you know

[2:36:07] >> for military purposes just stopped

[2:36:09] because the PR was so bad.

[2:36:10] >> Yeah. So many people speculate that they

[2:36:13] they must have continued developing this

[2:36:15] within black programs or within, you

[2:36:18] know, private defense contractors that

[2:36:20] wouldn't have congressional oversight or

[2:36:23] >> whatever.

[2:36:24] >> What is your opinion on that? And

[2:36:27] >> what do you what do you think it all

[2:36:29] >> really?

[2:36:30] >> And and I'm I'm there's like a multitude

[2:36:34] of reasons why. Uh the primary reason is

[2:36:39] the Congress decided since so it had

[2:36:42] been in the hands and the control of of

[2:36:45] ANSCOM intelligence security command

[2:36:49] that it was in the hands and the control

[2:36:51] of uh give me a second um

[2:36:56] uh Defense Intelligence Agency. Then it

[2:36:59] was under the control of the CIA. Then

[2:37:02] it went back to the control of the uh I

[2:37:06] can't remember the name agency. Pardon?

[2:37:08] >> Was it DIA again?

[2:37:09] >> Yeah, DIA again. Right. Exactly.

[2:37:12] >> And and so uh whoever was in control of

[2:37:16] it was shared over a long period of

[2:37:18] time, 23 to 25 years. So what happened

[2:37:24] is Congress decided they wanted to

[2:37:27] disappear it because it was starting to

[2:37:29] get too much attention. And there was a

[2:37:31] lot of problem keeping it secret, all

[2:37:33] that sort of thing. So they ordered the

[2:37:37] CIA to take it over, turn it totally

[2:37:40] black and bury it. They could operate

[2:37:42] where no one would know. Okay. The

[2:37:46] problem with that is the CIA had just

[2:37:49] finished getting rad over the coals for

[2:37:51] five years.

[2:37:52] >> Yeah.

[2:37:53] >> By Congress because of MK Ultra.

[2:37:55] >> Yeah. Now MK Ultra was the use of

[2:38:00] psychedelics for interrogation.

[2:38:02] >> Yeah.

[2:38:03] >> And they violated themselves by using it

[2:38:08] on one of their own people at a party

[2:38:10] for kicks.

[2:38:11] >> Mhm.

[2:38:12] >> The guy took a nose dive out of a nice

[2:38:14] story building smack on the sidewalk.

[2:38:19] It's that's extremely unfortunate

[2:38:21] because

[2:38:23] that created a massive stink.

[2:38:27] >> Yeah.

[2:38:27] >> So, Congress found out CIA was the ones

[2:38:31] handling it. So, it was a lack of uh a

[2:38:35] lack of control that allowed it to

[2:38:39] happen. So, they were all over Congress

[2:38:42] with this this uh investigation, this

[2:38:46] investigation, that sort of thing. And

[2:38:48] so, uh, CIA didn't want to have that

[2:38:52] again. They knew they were going to get

[2:38:54] a problem when they got the, uh, remote

[2:38:56] viewing program.

[2:38:59] Secondarily to that, um, one of the

[2:39:02] other issues was, uh, we had some

[2:39:06] Congress people in Congress that wanted

[2:39:08] that wanted it out in the open. Uh now I

[2:39:12] have to think there was a kind of a

[2:39:15] two-part

[2:39:17] desire there. One part was

[2:39:21] uh it didn't belong in a secret project.

[2:39:24] The second part was we can use it as a

[2:39:26] weapon against our guys running this or

[2:39:29] running.

[2:39:30] >> Mhm. you know, in different areas

[2:39:33] because it'll you all you had to say was

[2:39:36] this guy agreed with the psychics and

[2:39:39] he's done.

[2:39:41] >> Yeah.

[2:39:42] >> Um so,

[2:39:45] uh the CIA tried to to get out of it.

[2:39:48] Congress said, "No, you work for us. We

[2:39:50] don't work for you. Uh we want it we

[2:39:54] want it to become a dark project."

[2:39:56] And so the CIA said, "Okay, we'll accept

[2:39:59] it if it's inspected and in good shape."

[2:40:02] So they gave seven of the worst possible

[2:40:04] files to two people. Uh Jessica Us.

[2:40:09] >> Yes.

[2:40:09] >> And Jessica Uts is probably

[2:40:13] one of the most respected statisticians

[2:40:15] in the world, not just in America.

[2:40:19] She said, "Even with those bad files,

[2:40:21] you could you could safely say that this

[2:40:24] is real and everything is happening."

[2:40:27] Um, so I scissored her report out and

[2:40:31] kept the one scientist report in there

[2:40:34] who had said, "Even if it was true, I'd

[2:40:37] never reported this."

[2:40:38] >> And so they closed it. This secondary

[2:40:42] reason might be because

[2:40:45] Robert Gates was the when it started,

[2:40:48] Robert Gates was the senior most analyst

[2:40:52] out of the uh out of the

[2:40:55] >> the CIA, right? Robert Gates. Uh, no it

[2:40:59] was uh he was he was CI he was a senior

[2:41:03] senior analyst Russian analyst for all

[2:41:07] the analysts Russian analyst on the

[2:41:09] second floor of Lley.

[2:41:11] >> Okay.

[2:41:11] >> Okay. Anyway, it was kicked up. It this

[2:41:15] one building somewhere in in Russia had

[2:41:18] been targeted because it was a brand new

[2:41:21] building. it was being kicked up from

[2:41:24] many of the different

[2:41:26] uh responsible agencies. Anyway, this

[2:41:29] this building wasn't connected to water.

[2:41:32] It was sitting alongside a harbor, but

[2:41:35] it was had no connection to the water

[2:41:38] and they were this building has was

[2:41:40] huge.

[2:41:42] >> You could put the Mall of Americas in

[2:41:44] Minnesota in there. It wouldn't touch

[2:41:46] the walls or ceiling. So, uh, they had

[2:41:49] railroad card car loads of materials

[2:41:52] going in for a long time and, uh,

[2:41:56] anyway, they were trying to figure out

[2:41:58] what was going in the building.

[2:42:00] Nobody could figure it out. They

[2:42:01] couldn't buy a picture of the inside of

[2:42:03] the building. I think they were offering

[2:42:05] three million bucks. Wow.

[2:42:06] >> For one picture.

[2:42:07] >> Wow.

[2:42:08] >> Couldn't get it. And And it existed in

[2:42:11] an area called Sea Deetsk in Russia.

[2:42:14] >> Yeah. north of the Arctic Circle, which

[2:42:17] was a top secret city, one of their top

[2:42:20] secret cities that they did lots of

[2:42:22] classified work in. And so nobody could

[2:42:26] get an answer and they were really

[2:42:28] trying hard to break it. And uh so they

[2:42:32] tasked us. It was one of our first of

[2:42:34] three targets that we got. Impossible

[2:42:37] target, double blind, sealed in an

[2:42:41] envelope, not knowing anything about it.

[2:42:45] And uh guy named Hartley Trent and I

[2:42:48] said basically the same thing that it

[2:42:50] was a new type submarine and that it was

[2:42:53] huge. it. We said both said it was 30

[2:42:56] feet shy the length of a Soviet aircraft

[2:43:00] carrier and and we talked about all the

[2:43:03] upgrades in it which half of which

[2:43:06] turned in turned up on the Hunt for Red

[2:43:10] October movie 11 years later later

[2:43:13] >> and we said it was basically two

[2:43:15] submarines stuck together this way with

[2:43:18] a new wrapping.

[2:43:19] >> Mhm.

[2:43:20] >> So it was very broad and huge.

[2:43:24] Well, Robert Gates at the time being the

[2:43:27] s the senior analyst

[2:43:30] uh looked at our stuff and submarine.

[2:43:34] Are you kidding? It's not even connected

[2:43:35] to water. So, he wrote total fantasy on

[2:43:38] the top threw in the corner.

[2:43:41] Um at least that's what I was told. And

[2:43:45] um there was a uh an admiral brought it

[2:43:48] back who I had known for many years. had

[2:43:51] done work with him or for him as a

[2:43:54] regular intelligence person and he

[2:43:58] brought it back and I said you need to

[2:44:00] take it back and he said really he said

[2:44:02] he's not going to like that I said I

[2:44:04] don't care take it back and as he got up

[2:44:07] to leave I wrote a note put it on top I

[2:44:10] said total fantasy it'll be launched in

[2:44:12] 112 days

[2:44:14] >> Jay

[2:44:16] so he took it back and it got thrown in

[2:44:18] the corner

[2:44:21] So

[2:44:22] time when he's coming back after he

[2:44:26] dropped it off, he stopped at DNR and

[2:44:28] arranged to have two overhead satellites

[2:44:31] at 114 days. Look at the harbor and 114

[2:44:37] days

[2:44:38] side torn out of the building. big

[2:44:41] channel cut to the harbor and the

[2:44:43] Typhoon submarine is tied up to the side

[2:44:45] of a Soviet aircraft carrier

[2:44:47] >> to block its view from the entry and

[2:44:51] they were outfitting it for sea. So, a

[2:44:54] lot of pictures taken and uh probably

[2:44:58] got more in that one submarine than the

[2:45:00] entire Soviet subpack in history. And uh

[2:45:04] Robert Gates was really embarrassed.

[2:45:07] Well, he got embarrassed three more

[2:45:09] times later.

[2:45:10] So he he I think he was the director of

[2:45:15] the CIA when they were ordered to take

[2:45:16] it over. That's another possibility.

[2:45:19] >> Yeah. So So you're saying because of his

[2:45:21] personal vendetta against the program,

[2:45:23] he would not allow

[2:45:24] >> right

[2:45:25] >> anything.

[2:45:26] >> Now a lot of people say, "Oh, he used to

[2:45:28] direct the CIA. Later he became the

[2:45:30] >> Yeah. Secretary of Defense.

[2:45:32] >> Secretary of Defense."

[2:45:34] >> Okay. That still doesn't mean he wasn't

[2:45:37] a political animal. Okay. Right.

[2:45:40] >> So,

[2:45:41] um then there's a third third theory

[2:45:44] which is

[2:45:46] uh it actually didn't do well.

[2:45:49] >> Mhm.

[2:45:50] >> Okay. Now, my buddy Dr. May, it turns

[2:45:54] out I I worked 41 years on the science

[2:45:57] side. That's four labs as a viewer and

[2:46:01] as a researcher.

[2:46:04] And uh Dr. May and I were together the

[2:46:08] entire time and as Dr. May says uh how

[2:46:13] much proof do you need? He he says,

[2:46:16] "Imagine this. It it proving something

[2:46:19] in science is like building a new

[2:46:22] restaurant and you make up your first

[2:46:24] menu and you invite 15 of the most

[2:46:29] powerful

[2:46:31] uh food critics in the world to come the

[2:46:34] first night and half of them keep coming

[2:46:37] back every night, week after week after

[2:46:39] week for 23 years." right

[2:46:41] >> now. You tell me it did not do very

[2:46:44] well.

[2:46:45] >> Okay,

[2:46:46] >> it's it's BS. So, nobody knows for sure

[2:46:51] where the fix came from, but it was uh

[2:46:55] it was just continued closed. Now,

[2:47:00] it may be that they tried to make

[2:47:02] everyone believe that it actually didn't

[2:47:05] work very well so that it could be used.

[2:47:09] >> But I will tell you, um, there is

[2:47:12] nowhere on the planet anybody that was

[2:47:16] better than Harley Tren or me. And

[2:47:19] nobody's ever come up and said, "Gee,

[2:47:23] you know, we wish that you were still

[2:47:25] working."

[2:47:27] Uh, plus

[2:47:28] >> really so you've never had external

[2:47:31] >> Well, and uh if I did, I wouldn't talk

[2:47:34] about it.

[2:47:34] >> Well, I mean, you could say broadly yes

[2:47:36] or no.

[2:47:37] >> Ed Ed May

[2:47:40] >> uh

[2:47:44] he basically owns the science. H

[2:47:48] >> he's we've got uh

[2:47:53] 60s something years of science,

[2:47:56] 41 years of it. He and I know intimately

[2:47:59] no one's ever said a word to us about

[2:48:01] give us a copy.

[2:48:04] >> You you don't reinvent all that science.

[2:48:08] >> Yeah.

[2:48:08] >> You know, that's a lot of sc that's 1.8

[2:48:12] 8 million words of science

[2:48:14] >> and we we crushed it down to 1.4 mill

[2:48:18] just to get it published.

[2:48:20] >> So it's in a stack of documents

[2:48:24] >> nobody cares

[2:48:25] >> because what the real value of it is

[2:48:28] like the fact that it works. People

[2:48:30] don't people don't really want to know

[2:48:33] they they only pretend they want to know

[2:48:34] the data when they want to pretend that

[2:48:36] it doesn't work. Right. Right. Exactly.

[2:48:37] >> But then when you actually confront them

[2:48:39] with the data

[2:48:40] >> they don't want to read it. The the only

[2:48:42] point I'm trying to make is if you're

[2:48:43] going to keep doing it, you need the

[2:48:45] data,

[2:48:46] >> right?

[2:48:47] >> Uh

[2:48:49] when I was when I was the in the

[2:48:51] collection side, I was in Stargate in

[2:48:54] the military

[2:48:56] 7 and a half years.

[2:48:58] Um I was the only remote viewer left the

[2:49:01] last two years. Arrest haded died. The

[2:49:05] pre preliminary

[2:49:07] reason for death in the Stargate

[2:49:10] program, stress.

[2:49:12] You could never describe the stress

[2:49:15] involved. It killed everybody.

[2:49:19] And except for one person who quit, left

[2:49:21] early because our boss was a

[2:49:25] misogynistic at the time. So

[2:49:31] when you stop and think of it that way,

[2:49:33] I thought I escaped till I retired. When

[2:49:36] I retired, five heart attacks, triple

[2:49:39] bypass,

[2:49:40] >> then four more heart attacks. Uh I spent

[2:49:44] 10 days where my heart kept stopping. I

[2:49:47] was in an ICU in a country hospital.

[2:49:50] They just wanted to stabilize me enough

[2:49:52] to get me to the UVA uh heart center

[2:49:56] where I have open bypass.

[2:50:00] I haven't had a heart problem since

[2:50:01] 1985.

[2:50:03] >> Thank God.

[2:50:03] >> And and the reason why is I acknowledged

[2:50:07] it was stress. I got counseling. I

[2:50:10] figured ways of dealing with it and

[2:50:15] doesn't bother me anymore.

[2:50:17] >> Wow. So I learned to deal with it. We

[2:50:20] didn't have that opportunity on the

[2:50:22] operational side. But while I was on

[2:50:25] operational side, what they kept saying

[2:50:27] to me was I kept saying, "Where's the

[2:50:30] science? Where's the science?" And they

[2:50:32] kept saying, "You don't need it. You

[2:50:34] don't need it." And I kept saying, "I

[2:50:36] do. I want to get better."

[2:50:37] >> Mhm.

[2:50:38] >> And they kept saying, "You're doing

[2:50:40] fine."

[2:50:42] Okay. Science doesn't understand

[2:50:45] collection. Okay. So, we don't want any

[2:50:49] scientist in here.

[2:50:51] That didn't make any sense to me at all.

[2:50:54] So, when I retired from the army, I went

[2:50:56] straight to Stanford Research Institute.

[2:50:58] >> Yep.

[2:50:58] >> And got hired. And I I worked there

[2:51:01] until it closed. Went to SEIC. Worked

[2:51:04] there till it closed. I went this um CSL

[2:51:08] cognitive science lab. Worked there till

[2:51:11] it didn't work there anymore. And then I

[2:51:13] went to LFR laboratory fundamental

[2:51:16] research in Palo Alto.

[2:51:17] >> Well, now that you brought this up, that

[2:51:19] that's one of the rumors is that, you

[2:51:20] know, you can see the sort of trail of

[2:51:23] um Stargate going over to SIC

[2:51:26] >> and there's

[2:51:28] >> clearly not much over as much oversight

[2:51:30] into a private company doing this kind

[2:51:32] of work.

[2:51:33] >> No.

[2:51:33] >> So, so many people looking like it seems

[2:51:36] like it went black and went in there.

[2:51:38] >> Yeah. Except that the lab at SIC

[2:51:43] >> Mhm.

[2:51:44] >> was Ed May and me.

[2:51:45] >> Yeah.

[2:51:46] >> That's it. That's the whole lab.

[2:51:47] >> And there were no other labs.

[2:51:48] >> Oh, we No, we had other people in there

[2:51:51] with us. But when when it closed down at

[2:51:55] SIC and went to cognitive sciences lab,

[2:51:57] it was me and Ed.

[2:51:59] >> Mhm.

[2:51:59] >> So, no, we were the science and nobody

[2:52:03] was coming to us and asking us for

[2:52:05] anything.

[2:52:05] >> Wow.

[2:52:06] >> So,

[2:52:07] >> that's crazy. No, my my sense of it is

[2:52:10] no, there is no program and hasn't been

[2:52:14] since it closed in 95.

[2:52:17] The the other the the other significant

[2:52:20] problem with this is when you start

[2:52:24] looking at remote viewing and what's

[2:52:26] required and everything.

[2:52:29] Uh you can teach remote viewing in a

[2:52:33] week, no problem.

[2:52:35] >> Mhm. And in teaching remote viewing,

[2:52:37] what happens is

[2:52:40] um you you can only teach to a certain

[2:52:43] point,

[2:52:45] you don't have enough time, you don't

[2:52:47] have enough people, you don't have

[2:52:48] enough anything to keep with the same

[2:52:51] people.

[2:52:52] >> Yeah.

[2:52:53] >> Because uh they can't afford to be there

[2:52:56] for more than a week. So, one of the

[2:52:59] issues that comes up is

[2:53:02] um

[2:53:04] people who get trained who can

[2:53:05] demonstrate remote viewing at a fairly

[2:53:09] good rate. Uh we we call it the gestalt

[2:53:13] can do the gestalt remote viewing. Um

[2:53:17] they they're doing a good job, but

[2:53:20] they're white belts. Okay? If you look

[2:53:23] at it like it's a martial art of the

[2:53:25] mind, they are definitely white belts.

[2:53:29] They can demonstrate certain moves, so

[2:53:31] to speak. But if they want to get really

[2:53:35] good at it, you need the science. And

[2:53:37] when you bring the science in the door,

[2:53:40] now you have a string of improvements

[2:53:42] that you can make that I call it a

[2:53:45] improvements to the skill set. Mhm.

[2:53:48] >> Beginning remote viewers don't know if

[2:53:50] they're coming in the front door, the

[2:53:52] window, out of the basement. They have

[2:53:54] no idea how they're getting to a target.

[2:53:57] >> Yeah,

[2:53:58] >> that would be an improvement. Skill set.

[2:54:01] Color is an improvement. Size is an

[2:54:04] improvement. Everything you say about

[2:54:06] emotion, everything is a skill set

[2:54:09] improvement.

[2:54:11] By the 14th year,

[2:54:14] I could show you product that is

[2:54:16] incredible.

[2:54:17] >> Yeah.

[2:54:18] >> Uh five pictures of a single target that

[2:54:21] are like absolutely cutaways of the

[2:54:24] target.

[2:54:24] >> Yeah. Your drawings are unbelievably

[2:54:28] >> by the 25th year.

[2:54:31] If you said to me, tell us I'm tracking

[2:54:35] a spy. Tell us where the spy is.

[2:54:38] One drawing with an X on it. He's

[2:54:41] standing right here,

[2:54:43] >> which is all the more reason why I can't

[2:54:45] imagine how you were not continuously

[2:54:47] tapped.

[2:54:48] >> It takes 25 years to get there

[2:54:52] >> is the problem. And the when did you

[2:54:55] ever hear the government want to spend

[2:54:57] 25 years doing anything?

[2:54:59] >> Yeah.

[2:54:59] >> Okay. It It's a It's a That's like the

[2:55:02] government going out and hiring priest.

[2:55:05] >> Okay.

[2:55:06] >> Yeah. It's a commitment that most people

[2:55:09] will not make, especially won't make

[2:55:12] with the amount of money they're willing

[2:55:14] to pay

[2:55:16] for it. So,

[2:55:18] uh, unfortunately also the stress gets

[2:55:22] to people. If they don't train to deal

[2:55:24] with the stress, then they're in

[2:55:26] trouble.

[2:55:27] >> Mhm. So,

[2:55:30] uh, I have I'm probably the only viewer

[2:55:33] that has a target tracking us by for six

[2:55:36] months, then telling you what he's

[2:55:38] doing, telling you who he is, telling

[2:55:42] you

[2:55:44] how it will be used, all of that indep

[2:55:48] independently reviewed, 100% correct.

[2:55:52] It's on display in the oneofa-kind

[2:55:54] museum at the National Security Agency.

[2:55:57] >> Really? Wow. Yeah. Cool.

[2:55:58] >> You know what my tracking data was?

[2:56:01] Social Security number.

[2:56:03] >> Wow.

[2:56:04] >> That's it. They controlled everything in

[2:56:08] the lab where I was working. Ed May and

[2:56:10] I, we knew nothing.

[2:56:13] Social Security number. So you can tell

[2:56:17] somewhere between the ages of 14 and 70.

[2:56:21] Male or female. That's the two things

[2:56:23] you can tell.

[2:56:26] But I put him where he was standing

[2:56:28] three times, one drawing each time.

[2:56:31] >> Wow.

[2:56:32] >> And then drew what he was building,

[2:56:34] which was classified.

[2:56:37] Never been done before

[2:56:39] with enough detail an independent agency

[2:56:42] said they could mimic it.

[2:56:43] >> Wow.

[2:56:45] >> Along with the frequencies that were

[2:56:47] microwave because I drew the wave guides

[2:56:49] and told them how big they were.

[2:56:53] Does this have to do with like like

[2:56:55] microwave weaponry?

[2:56:57] >> Maybe.

[2:56:58] >> Okay. Wow.

[2:57:00] >> Everything. And and and then

[2:57:04] uh

[2:57:06] they tried to phone me once. They showed

[2:57:09] me a picture of an aircraft hanger, you

[2:57:12] know, big hanger where they pop up park

[2:57:14] a Boeing 707 or something. The doors are

[2:57:18] shut and parked on the front apron are

[2:57:20] nine different kinds of airplanes.

[2:57:23] They said, "Tell us what they're hiding

[2:57:25] in the aircraft hanger."

[2:57:28] >> And I gave him five cutaways of the

[2:57:30] Abrams tank.

[2:57:32] >> Who Who did this? Who tried to trick

[2:57:34] you?

[2:57:34] >> Who did this? It was Defense

[2:57:35] Intelligence Agency.

[2:57:37] >> And it was the Abrams tank.

[2:57:40] And it was at the time top secret. It

[2:57:43] was a proto protoype.

[2:57:46] Wow.

[2:57:47] >> So, but that's over 30 years.

[2:57:50] >> Yeah. Okay. Experience.

[2:57:53] >> So, the problem is is multiffold. One is

[2:57:56] nobody wants to spend that kind of time.

[2:57:59] Second is if you want a life, you don't

[2:58:02] get in this.

[2:58:03] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[2:58:05] >> The third is you have to have an

[2:58:07] extremely inquisitive mind to want to

[2:58:10] know

[2:58:11] what you're doing wrong since birth. M

[2:58:15] >> cuz teaching it is not teaching anything

[2:58:17] new. It's destroying bad habits.

[2:58:21] >> Yeah. Like unlearning things.

[2:58:23] >> Unlearning.

[2:58:24] >> That's what it is. It's all unlearning

[2:58:27] bad habits

[2:58:29] >> and developing new habits and the way

[2:58:31] you process material

[2:58:33] >> because when you get the information,

[2:58:36] it's not exactly what it is. It's always

[2:58:40] your subconscious digging something out

[2:58:43] of your memory that's closest to it

[2:58:46] because you haven't seen everything in

[2:58:47] the world. Like I've never seen a a

[2:58:50] microwave system,

[2:58:52] >> but I've seen

[2:58:54] now I've seen the wave guides.

[2:58:56] >> Okay.

[2:58:58] >> So, uh what's fascinating to me is the

[2:59:02] more the more of that you do, the more

[2:59:04] of a threat you become to your own

[2:59:06] nation.

[2:59:08] True. Yeah.

[2:59:09] >> Think about it. That's I think the

[2:59:12] reason why they shut it down.

[2:59:13] >> Yeah. Yeah. Because if you can do if you

[2:59:15] can point your awareness there, you can

[2:59:17] point it anywhere. And that's a

[2:59:19] dangerous

[2:59:20] >> if if I said uh

[2:59:23] when you produce information that you

[2:59:26] shouldn't know,

[2:59:28] >> right?

[2:59:28] >> And you're standing in front of somebody

[2:59:30] who says,

[2:59:34] uh, how would I put it? Uh,

[2:59:38] there's only three people in the entire

[2:59:41] world that know we're planning a

[2:59:44] >> Yeah.

[2:59:45] >> And you're number four.

[2:59:47] >> Yeah.

[2:59:47] >> Give us a source or die right here.

[2:59:50] >> Yeah.

[2:59:52] >> Put that on for size.

[2:59:54] >> I think that's an awesome way to end it,

[2:59:56] man. That's a That's a great mic drop

[2:59:58] moment. Thank you so much, you're an

[3:00:00] absolute legend. And like I said, it's

[3:00:02] not lost on me that we're doing this

[3:00:04] >> here of all places right on Bob's

[3:00:07] birthday.

[3:00:08] >> And I'm not a big 11-11 person, but it's

[3:00:10] his 111th birthday. And right when I

[3:00:12] looked at the clock, right when we

[3:00:13] started recording, it was 11-1ven. So

[3:00:16] there you go.

[3:00:17] >> Yeah.

[3:00:18] >> Should have been.

[3:00:19] >> Yeah. Thank you, my friend. Thank you so

[3:00:20] Blossom.

TE
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Third Eye Drops

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Remote-viewingProject-stargateJoe-mcmoneagleUfo-encountersNear-death-experience

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In the Third Eye Drops conversation, McMoneagle says he served in Stargate for seven and a half years and has targeted hundreds of UFOs. He adds that he never saw an entity in any of them, though he did see beings he describes as robots rather than aliens. These are his own accounts and have not been independently verified in the episode.
McMoneagle says that every entity he has seen in a UFO, except for one, was a robot. He uses the word aliens only because there is no other word to use. The episode's description adds his belief that these beings are grown, programmed, and deployed by something else.
McMoneagle describes people reporting that they reviewed their entire life in seconds after coming close to death. He explains this by saying that life creates time and space together, producing fixed locations and events that never disappear. He compares these moments to tack welds that hold a structure of experience together.
The episode's host describes Stargate as a classified U.S. Army program in which trained remote viewers were tasked with gathering intelligence. McMoneagle, identified as remote viewer 0001, is presented as one of the original six operational viewers. The host credits him with work including sketching a Soviet submarine facility and tracking counterintelligence targets.
He argues that each person lives in a single world that no one else fully shares, so the only world you control is your own. Everything that happens to you is shaped by how you receive it and respond. He says this is not a simple slogan but a deeper idea about the total self.
The episode does not claim it is settled. McMoneagle stresses why rigorous blind protocols matter and questions some popular claims about psychic abilities. Viewers should treat his testimony as a practitioner's account rather than a scientific verdict.

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