Transcript
[0:00] Hi, this is Peter Cone and you're
[0:02] listening to Finding Freedom. This
[0:04] episode I get to speak to Joe on a topic
[0:06] that I consider to be one of the most
[0:08] sensitive for all humans and something
[0:10] that I assert is going to really touch
[0:12] all of you because it really appeals to
[0:14] one of the main characteristics of what
[0:16] it is to be human, which is at times in
[0:18] our lives where we feel rejected, not
[0:20] wanted, and the distinct feeling of
[0:22] shame and hurt that comes with any
[0:24] feeling of isolation. So I thank Joe for
[0:27] her courage in sharing the times that
[0:29] she's felt not even seen or even
[0:31] recognized so that you might find that
[0:33] part within each of you and discover
[0:36] that that is just an aspect of the human
[0:38] conditioning and in fact the opportunity
[0:39] [music] for us to develop even more love
[0:42] for ourself. I hope you enjoy this
[0:44] episode of finding freedom and as part
[0:46] of my commitment to you to step into
[0:47] this new iteration of what it is to be a
[0:49] 2.0 human in this 2.0 in a world where
[0:52] we can live from freedom, love,
[0:53] possibility, vitality, and abundance.
[0:56] And above all, find more freedom.
[0:59] >> Welcome to uh finding freedom. And uh I
[1:04] know you have a tattoo. Do you want to
[1:05] show the folks at home?
[1:07] >> It's meant to be a container, two sides
[1:09] of a square.
[1:10] >> Just the symbol to mean all of it.
[1:13] Include all of it.
[1:14] >> To make space for all of it. Okay. I
[1:16] love that. So, just for those listening,
[1:19] if you could just let us know the main
[1:20] thing that you're keen to look at. I
[1:24] know it's in the arena of relationships,
[1:26] but I'd love for you to just explain
[1:27] where you're at so I can both hold space
[1:30] for you, the container like on your arm,
[1:32] and everyone at home can start to get
[1:34] related.
[1:35] >> Mhm.
[1:36] >> Sure. So, my submission is sort of
[1:39] centered around an experience I had two
[1:42] or three years ago.
[1:43] >> Mhm. where I saw a text message about me
[1:46] or I saw a text conversation about me
[1:50] >> and I sort of registered it loosely and
[1:54] then the following day a few of the
[1:56] words stuck out and every time I thought
[1:58] about those words
[2:01] I would get a sensation not a nice
[2:03] sensation that would go down the back of
[2:05] my neck to my shoulders and then it
[2:08] would sort of shoot to my stomach.
[2:10] >> Mhm. And there was a period of about 10
[2:13] 10 days to two weeks where I couldn't
[2:15] eat. I struggled to get out of bed. I
[2:18] felt paralyzed in my own body, which
[2:20] sounds weird, but it this thing would
[2:22] just
[2:24] like I would go into brace sort of and
[2:26] then sort of lie in the fetal position
[2:28] and not move basically all day.
[2:31] >> Yeah, I get it.
[2:32] >> I can say more on that. But in terms of
[2:34] present day, it's not so dramatic. But I
[2:37] sort of feel the the micro versions of
[2:40] it in that I'm I get a buildup sometimes
[2:44] of this like blackness in my mind of my
[2:46] body which doesn't really have any
[2:48] language, but the closest I've come to
[2:50] is like no one cares or no one's coming.
[2:53] >> Yeah.
[2:54] >> If I think about it too much, it builds
[2:56] up and I get to the same place in my
[2:58] body of feeling paralyzed. So I've I've
[3:01] come pretty good at trying to escape my
[3:03] own mind.
[3:04] >> Yeah. which is what I did on repeat back
[3:07] then. I would go for really long drives,
[3:09] put a podcast on, usually you really
[3:12] loud in my car.
[3:15] Uh just anything to distract me from
[3:17] thinking about those words which I'm
[3:19] guessing point to something a lot
[3:20] deeper.
[3:21] >> For sure. No, I get it. And I know
[3:23] that's a horrible feeling and can be
[3:25] very heavy and depressing and um
[3:28] hopeless. You know, you obviously said
[3:30] powerless as well, but to give context,
[3:32] what what were the words you read and in
[3:34] what regard was it? It was the end of a
[3:36] relationship or
[3:38] >> it was I'll change the I'll change the
[3:42] name, but it was a guy's name.
[3:43] >> Yeah.
[3:44] >> Say John. It said John doesn't even like
[3:46] her.
[3:47] >> Meaning me.
[3:48] >> Yeah.
[3:49] >> It was a guy that I'd just been on a
[3:51] date with. So, there was more to the
[3:53] conversation, but those were the words
[3:55] that stuck out. And
[3:59] where I get stuck is
[4:02] why do why does something seemingly so
[4:05] small and juvenile uh elicit such a
[4:10] [snorts] huge response in my body?
[4:12] >> Yeah.
[4:12] >> And so I don't
[4:15] [clears throat] I have tried to talk
[4:16] about it like I went to therapy. I tried
[4:17] to tell my mom. I emailed some friends
[4:19] and was
[4:20] >> as transparent as I I could be about
[4:22] what had happened. But it was just this
[4:24] shame of like
[4:26] as I said in my video, I know I would
[4:28] never take my own life,
[4:30] >> but those words would do something where
[4:32] it got to the point where this thing
[4:34] would overcome my mind and I wasn't in
[4:36] control of it anymore
[4:38] >> and I didn't know what I would do under
[4:41] its control.
[4:42] >> Yeah.
[4:43] >> Um because someone didn't like me
[4:44] because a boy didn't like me. [laughter]
[4:46] >> Yeah. No, I understand. It's one date.
[4:48] But then if you want to expand on that,
[4:50] what is the concern like the bigger
[4:52] picture as it relates to relationships
[4:53] as a whole and and Joe's future?
[4:57] >> There's a few. I think the main one is
[4:59] that that I will miss or that I do miss
[5:03] the love that is around me and the
[5:04] acceptance that is around me because I'm
[5:06] looking through whatever that lens is.
[5:08] Yeah. And
[5:08] >> so I can't see
[5:12] realness and real friendship and real
[5:14] people who do
[5:17] like me or accept me.
[5:19] >> Yeah.
[5:20] >> And that I won't be able to see, find,
[5:23] or sustain a real connection or a
[5:26] relationship.
[5:28] >> The idea that you're just going to spend
[5:29] the rest of your life by yourself,
[5:31] >> that's definitely a fear and it's really
[5:33] embarrassing to say. It's in the
[5:36] forefront of my mind every day, all day.
[5:38] It's
[5:39] >> It's just there.
[5:40] >> I get how embarrassing that is to say,
[5:42] to use your words, but I I think you'd
[5:44] be pleasantly surprised. Might seem like
[5:46] an oxymoron in this case, but how many
[5:49] people feel the same, right? Meaning
[5:51] that they also have that fear. And they
[5:53] might be in a relationship that right
[5:54] now they know is not really great or
[5:56] that they want to leave, but they're too
[5:58] scared to leave for the fear of that
[6:00] they might then end up being by
[6:02] themselves for the rest of their life,
[6:03] too.
[6:04] >> H
[6:05] So, I really, you know, commend you on
[6:08] having the courage to come and have this
[6:09] conversation with me and I'm excited to
[6:12] show you what's on the other side of it.
[6:13] But I do, at least for now, want to make
[6:16] space for and, you know, have compassion
[6:18] for everybody who has this part of them
[6:20] as the human experience, right? Which is
[6:23] who am I to end up in a beautiful
[6:24] relationship? Who's going to pick me?
[6:26] Who's going to love me? I'm going to be
[6:27] by myself. Even if I meet someone, it's
[6:30] not going to work out. They won't like
[6:31] me. Like, you know, your your friend
[6:33] John. Um what just out of curiosity
[6:37] where where did this transpire? Like cuz
[6:39] this was a text message on someone
[6:40] else's phone. It wasn't obviously to
[6:42] you. Like so you said you saw this
[6:45] message. Like how how did that occur?
[6:49] >> Uh so John actually showed it to me. He
[6:53] he was showing me a conversation between
[6:55] two mutual friends who were having a
[6:57] good old gossip about us.
[6:59] >> Oh. Oh. So okay.
[7:01] >> He was giving me a lift home. Yeah.
[7:04] And was he particularly showing you that
[7:06] part or you just happened to see that?
[7:09] >> Those I he showed me the whole thing.
[7:12] The context was just like these guys are
[7:14] sticking their nose in when it's not
[7:16] their business. But those were the words
[7:18] that stuck out and stuck with me. So he
[7:20] wasn't yet specifically showing me that
[7:21] part though.
[7:22] >> Got it. Okay. Okay. Fine. So you know
[7:25] you're smart, you're savvy. You've
[7:27] listened to my work. you drive off into
[7:29] the countryside and crank my podcast at
[7:31] loud, you know, volume to try and ignore
[7:33] the chatter of your mind. What would you
[7:36] say might be one of the stories that Joe
[7:38] has about herself if this is, you know,
[7:40] so devastating to you, which I totally
[7:42] understand and have compassion for?
[7:48] >> I don't know, which is why I'm here, but
[7:51] I'm guessing logically it's something
[7:54] in the realm of not being wanted or
[7:58] picked.
[7:59] >> Yeah.
[8:00] And do you have any and and that's
[8:02] accurate and that's where I would go. Do
[8:05] you have any points of reference from
[8:07] your own history, you know, growing up?
[8:09] It sounds like you have, you know, you
[8:11] spoke to your mom, you said, so I'm
[8:13] guessing you have a caring mom at least.
[8:14] I don't know the situation with dad but
[8:16] you know give us any in indications that
[8:19] this might have been a story that you
[8:21] developed somewhere along the line
[8:24] school parents
[8:28] >> so I don't have one particular sort of
[8:32] standout memory but there are lots of
[8:34] little ones where I had the same sort of
[8:36] like sensation
[8:38] >> which was I would notice my beautiful
[8:41] best friends get looked at
[8:44] >> every Like when we walked into a public
[8:45] space and I would notice that it was
[8:48] never me.
[8:50] >> Mhm.
[8:50] >> You know, no one said anything nasty. It
[8:53] was more just like
[8:55] [snorts] I know I don't fit the mold
[8:58] right now of what is
[9:01] attractive and
[9:03] >> yeah,
[9:05] >> desirable.
[9:07] >> Yeah.
[9:07] >> So, I've had that Yeah. through my teens
[9:09] and 20s and now 30s in social occasions.
[9:12] That's what I notice I'm looking out for
[9:15] >> when I arrive, during, and when I leave.
[9:19] >> Many memories like that. And I've always
[9:21] had really beautiful best friends. So,
[9:24] >> it happened a lot. And I remember there
[9:26] was one instance at music college where
[9:28] my best friend at the time, she got hit
[9:31] on by a girl and I was like, "Fuck sake,
[9:35] like I cannot gut a break." [laughter]
[9:39] >> Not just men picking your friends. Now
[9:41] even women are wanting my friends but
[9:43] not me. Right.
[9:44] >> Yeah. It's funny now but it really hit
[9:47] me at the time.
[9:48] >> Mhm.
[9:49] >> So that Yeah. There's been many uh many
[9:52] instances like that.
[9:53] >> Yeah.
[9:54] >> Yeah. The not not wanted, not picked. I
[9:57] can hear that. And and just without
[9:59] going there too much because I know it
[10:01] hurts. But what what's it like to live
[10:03] inside of that the who Joe is is the one
[10:06] that's not picked. She's the one that's
[10:07] not wanted. Everyone else is being given
[10:10] the love and adoration and attention.
[10:17] It's okay. It's important to feel.
[10:26] [snorts] I don't know what how to
[10:28] articulate what it feels like.
[10:31] Like it's got to the point
[10:33] in the sort of cascade of how it happens
[10:35] that there aren't any there's no
[10:36] language anymore. It's just like I see
[10:39] no. I see no. I see no. [snorts]
[10:41] >> Mhm.
[10:42] >> And I'm I'm in adult language,
[10:45] separation. Like I'm just observing the
[10:49] world around me. People getting
[10:51] together, people getting married, having
[10:53] kids. [snorts]
[10:54] >> Yeah.
[10:56] >> People in a new relationship,
[10:58] another one,
[11:00] >> right?
[11:01] >> Um I wish I had more language for it,
[11:04] but it's just
[11:05] >> No, you're doing great. and beyond
[11:06] language as a woman. I really want you
[11:08] just to feel it like what does that feel
[11:10] like? Like you know, okay, even the last
[11:12] time you saw your friend who was picked
[11:14] up or hit on by a girl, you know, and
[11:16] then you've got all the other episodes
[11:18] where all these guys are hitting on,
[11:20] friends are getting married, friends
[11:21] have got partners. What does it just
[11:23] feel like to be the one that's left out?
[11:30] >> [ __ ]
[11:31] >> Yeah. No, it's fine. It does. It feels
[11:33] [ __ ] Yeah.
[11:35] Is that where you feel it in your
[11:37] stomach?
[11:40] >> Yeah. I think
[11:43] the closest I've come in language where
[11:46] I've really felt it like that kick in
[11:48] the stomach is that I'm a joke. I
[11:50] remember sharing those words with a
[11:51] friend.
[11:52] >> Mhm.
[11:53] >> And it's not I know I used rejection,
[11:55] but it's not even it's like it's not
[11:57] even rejection because you have to be at
[11:58] least be registered or considered to
[12:01] then
[12:01] >> Yeah.
[12:01] >> be rejected. So,
[12:03] >> it's like not considered like invisible.
[12:06] >> That's what I was going to say. Forget
[12:08] rejection. You're not even considered.
[12:09] You're not
[12:10] >> Yeah. Not even seen. [laughter] Yeah.
[12:12] >> Yeah.
[12:13] >> Not even seen in the first place. No, I
[12:15] get it. Do you um just to
[12:18] [clears throat] give me some context? Um
[12:19] do you have siblings?
[12:21] >> Yes, I do. I have a brother. Younger
[12:23] brother.
[12:24] >> Younger brother. And do you remember
[12:27] like what's the age difference?
[12:28] >> Just over a year, year and a half. Not a
[12:31] big difference. No. Okay. Do you have
[12:33] any kind of memory of like what it was
[12:36] like when he arrived? Because sometimes
[12:37] when there's a younger sibling, the
[12:39] oldest one who only knows attention can,
[12:42] and again, I'm not leading the witness
[12:44] or trying to plant any seeds here, but
[12:45] can sometimes feel like, oh, I can
[12:48] distinctly remember as soon as my
[12:49] younger brother, younger sister arrived,
[12:51] I suddenly became sort of put to one
[12:54] side. Do you have any of that kind of
[12:57] experience?
[12:58] No, I
[13:01] I've I've thought about that in depth
[13:03] before when I was in therapy and they
[13:06] brought up a similar thing.
[13:08] >> Um
[13:11] actually to the point where I left
[13:12] because I just didn't resonate at all.
[13:15] So if if that is something then
[13:20] >> I' I have no recollection of it and it's
[13:22] >> right it's just deep
[13:23] >> never something I felt in my [snorts]
[13:24] childhood or [clears throat]
[13:26] >> adulthood.
[13:27] >> Yeah. Well, kudos to your parents then
[13:29] for because you know through no fault of
[13:32] their own, it's very common that parents
[13:34] start to put all of their attention on a
[13:35] young baby just because the baby needs
[13:37] more attention, you know, but given the
[13:40] closeness of your age, if it's older, if
[13:42] they're three, four year gap, you know,
[13:44] their 3 four year old can take a little
[13:45] bit more care of themselves. So, it can
[13:48] give the impression of being dismissed a
[13:50] little bit, but I don't hear that. So,
[13:51] that's great.
[13:52] >> So, so let's look at the aspirational
[13:55] part of this, right? like so not not not
[13:57] wanted, not seen, not even considered.
[14:00] Um, but clearly Joe would love a
[14:03] relationship, right?
[14:06] >> Yes. [laughter]
[14:08] >> I hate admitting that, but yes, for
[14:10] sure.
[14:10] >> Well, let's look at that. Why do you
[14:12] hate admitting that?
[14:17] >> Cuz it sounds needy and it feels like
[14:22] it's coming from an unhealthy pl like a
[14:24] desperate place. Yeah.
[14:26] >> And I,
[14:29] you know, it I have patterns of choosing
[14:31] people purely because they chose me or,
[14:34] you know, in some small way and I don't
[14:37] want to do that,
[14:38] >> right? No, I get it. So, let's just
[14:41] let's just do the old um hypotheticals
[14:43] for fun, right? So, let's just say, god
[14:46] forbid, there's some lunatic person out
[14:48] there who actually chooses Joe. You
[14:49] know, they've lost their mind.
[14:51] >> [laughter]
[14:52] >> They're like
[14:53] >> last resort.
[14:54] >> Last resort. They're desperate and it's
[14:56] like okay, [laughter]
[14:58] [gasps]
[14:59] messing with you obviously. So if but if
[15:03] we we work past this, which we're going
[15:05] to I mean I have absolutely zero doubt
[15:07] that this is going to completely
[15:08] radically change your life. But do
[15:11] [clears throat] you have aspirations to
[15:12] have your own family?
[15:14] >> Yeah.
[15:15] >> Yeah. You'd be a wonderful mom.
[15:17] >> So let's just look at that part, right?
[15:20] So, this is always uh so fun for me
[15:24] because,
[15:26] how do I phrase this? The way that
[15:27] people look at their situations tends to
[15:29] be not the place to look in the first
[15:31] place. So, for you, it's obvious, right?
[15:32] You go out, you're in a public space,
[15:34] you see your beautiful friends getting
[15:36] hit on or they have partners or they're
[15:38] married, they're talking about family,
[15:39] and then here's little old Joe. Woe is
[15:41] me. You know, no one's going to see me.
[15:43] No one's, you know, you've got this
[15:45] cognitive bias, meaning before you've
[15:46] even left your own building, your own
[15:49] home, there's the trepidation, right, of
[15:51] like, oh, well, I want to go out cuz I
[15:53] want to see my friends, but why would I
[15:54] go out cuz all I'm going to experience
[15:56] is, you know, this dismissal energy
[15:59] again. No one's going to notice me,
[16:00] right?
[16:01] >> Fair.
[16:02] >> Yeah. Yes. [snorts]
[16:04] >> So, I guess I have one question.
[16:07] For work, are you a fortune teller? Is
[16:09] that what you do for work?
[16:11] >> No. [laughter]
[16:13] Just just curious because you seem to
[16:15] have it all figured out about what's
[16:16] going on.
[16:17] >> I've got it all figured out. Yeah. No.
[16:19] >> Yeah.
[16:19] >> I have no idea.
[16:21] >> No. Which would be actually quite
[16:22] refreshing for you if you could start to
[16:24] live from there, right? Because I'm just
[16:26] going to be straight with you. Like do
[16:27] you absolutely know that for the rest of
[16:29] your life? You said you're 32 now or how
[16:31] old are you?
[16:32] >> 32. Yeah.
[16:33] >> 32. So for the rest of your life, do you
[16:35] know that no one's going to pick Joe?
[16:38] >> No.
[16:39] >> No. But can you see that
[16:42] >> does happen ironically?
[16:43] >> Pardon?
[16:44] >> It does happen sometimes, but
[16:46] >> yeah, shocker.
[16:47] >> I can't see [laughter] it.
[16:50] [gasps]
[16:52] >> Well, here's the irony, right? Like, so
[16:54] there's there's a 8 billion people out
[16:56] there. Like, if we did the math, I don't
[16:57] know what it is, you know, like let's
[16:58] say roughly half of them are male. So,
[17:00] there's like 4 billion. Of course,
[17:02] they're across the gamut of ages, you
[17:04] know, anywhere between 0 to 18. I'm
[17:07] going to guess you don't skew below 28
[17:09] or 27, you know, you don't want to date
[17:11] a boy. So, you know, that probably
[17:14] eradicates a good third of that. So,
[17:16] maybe down to three billion. And then at
[17:18] the other end of the spectrum, you know,
[17:19] 50 plus or whatever. So, maybe there's
[17:21] another two. But there's probably a good
[17:23] billion out there that, you know, at
[17:25] least let's just say 500 million, you
[17:27] know, men that are of suitable age. We
[17:30] could rule out different belief systems,
[17:32] alcoholics, you know, drug addicts,
[17:34] maybe certain religious tendencies. I
[17:36] don't know what you're into, but by the
[17:38] time we get down to it, you know,
[17:39] there's definitely a few million
[17:41] [laughter] men who could be potential
[17:43] suitors, right?
[17:45] >> Yeah. Yes.
[17:46] >> So, the irony is that it's not the
[17:49] absence of potential people out there.
[17:51] It's the proclivity you have, the
[17:53] tendency, the cognitive bias for you to
[17:56] skew your view. Right. So, it's it's
[17:59] your view of you, which is ironically
[18:02] your relationship of you.
[18:04] >> Yeah. So, you know, I'm just going to
[18:07] cut to the chase. So, you said right at
[18:09] the beginning, one of the things you do,
[18:10] and I listen, I have all the sympathy,
[18:12] compassion in the world. I get it. You
[18:13] know, only child, my parents died. I
[18:16] could definitely lean into feeling
[18:17] completely isolated, alone, no one's
[18:19] picking me. Wasn't so much in that vein,
[18:22] but it's definitely a feeling of
[18:23] complete separation, which is horrible,
[18:25] right? So, I get it. Now, when you feel
[18:28] that and it's the stomach and it's the
[18:30] weight across your neck and your
[18:31] shoulders and it feels hopeless and you
[18:34] don't want to listen to that part of
[18:36] you, you said you maybe go for a drive
[18:38] and you'll listen to a podcast or you
[18:40] want something loud to kind of drown
[18:42] that out, right?
[18:44] >> Yeah, for sure.
[18:45] >> So, now look at that behavior
[18:48] and I'm just going to be straight with
[18:50] you. What are you doing to that part of
[18:53] you with that choice of action?
[18:56] avoiding it.
[18:58] >> What else?
[19:01] >> Shutting it down, not listening,
[19:04] wanting it to go away, dismissing it.
[19:07] >> So, can we start to maybe make the
[19:10] correlation?
[19:13] Why am I asking you that question? See,
[19:16] this isn't Joe. This is a part of your
[19:18] conditioning. Everything that confines a
[19:20] human being, the limits, the
[19:21] constraints, these are conversations.
[19:23] It's not the essence of who you are.
[19:25] Like in in this case, your perceiving
[19:27] self definitely is I'm not wanted. I'm
[19:29] not picked. I'm not even considered. I'm
[19:32] less than. You know, it's all in that
[19:34] realm, right?
[19:35] >> Yeah.
[19:36] >> That's a story. But is that are those
[19:39] conversations who you are?
[19:43] >> Is that who you are?
[19:45] >> No.
[19:45] >> No. They're just conversations. But
[19:48] again, just to reiterate, to strengthen
[19:50] it, what are you what is your approach
[19:52] to those conversations? Bearing in mind
[19:54] what you said about driving and
[19:55] listening to a loud podcast
[19:58] >> that I don't want it.
[20:01] >> So, can you see the irony? There's a
[20:04] part of you that feels not wanted and
[20:07] your approach to it is to reinforce that
[20:10] you don't want it by trying to drown it
[20:12] out, not listen to it, make it wrong.
[20:16] >> Yeah.
[20:18] I guess I'm I'm
[20:22] It's scary because I don't know what
[20:24] where it's going to take me. But yeah.
[20:28] >> Okay. So So now I'm going to come full
[20:30] circle to the method of my madness and
[20:32] how I do what I do. Right. So I asked
[20:34] earlier, you know,
[20:35] >> madness,
[20:37] >> complete madness, wizardry, should we
[20:39] call it then.
[20:40] >> Yes.
[20:41] >> So your desire, aspiration, 32, you want
[20:45] to have a family. You want to obviously,
[20:47] you know, whether you get married or
[20:48] whatever, you have a partner, but you
[20:49] you'd love to be a mom, right? So, let's
[20:52] cut to the future, you know. Let's say I
[20:54] I'm confident you'll meet someone within
[20:56] a year easily. You could easily have
[20:57] kids within 3 years, you know. So, let's
[21:00] say you're 35, you've had your first
[21:02] baby, and now cut to you're 40, you got
[21:05] a 5-year-old, they just started
[21:07] kindergarten,
[21:09] and by virtue of being a child in an
[21:11] environment with a lot of other kids
[21:12] that don't know what the hell they're
[21:13] saying, but they've learned things or
[21:15] they're mean or whatever, your your
[21:17] beautiful little daughter comes home and
[21:19] she's crying,
[21:21] right? And it's because she wasn't
[21:23] picked for whatever was going on at
[21:25] kindergarten or primary school or
[21:26] whatever the first grade was, right? She
[21:28] wasn't included. She She didn't make the
[21:31] music. She didn't make the cheerleading.
[21:33] She didn't Whatever it is, fill in the
[21:34] blank, right?
[21:36] >> So, she comes home. It's your daughter
[21:39] and she feels completely rejected,
[21:41] excluded, not even considered.
[21:44] How how what is your response to her?
[21:55] Big hug. Really sorry.
[21:59] It's not true.
[22:05] >> What emotion do you would you want to
[22:07] her to presence from you? She comes
[22:10] home. She's devastated. She wasn't
[22:12] picked for something. She'd felt left
[22:14] out. You've hugged her. That's a
[22:15] physical expression. But what emotion
[22:17] would you want to her to feel the most
[22:19] from her own mom?
[22:22] >> Presence, care,
[22:25] love, attention. Yeah, let's just stick
[22:28] with love.
[22:30] >> Yeah,
[22:31] >> I'm going to guess even though I've only
[22:34] known you for whatever 20 30 minutes
[22:37] that you would even feel that kind of
[22:39] love whether you, you know, categorize
[22:41] it as love, compassion, sympathy,
[22:43] empathy, but they're to me all bed
[22:45] fellows. Even if you saw a friend of
[22:47] yours, this beautiful friend who's had
[22:49] married and her daughter is sad, you
[22:51] would feel that. That's what I present.
[22:52] That's what I see in you. let alone your
[22:55] own daughter who's devastated. I I can't
[22:58] if I'm in the kitchen or wherever when
[23:00] she walks home, all I see is you maybe
[23:02] even in tears picking her up and saying,
[23:04] "Oh, honey, it's okay. I love you so
[23:05] much."
[23:07] >> Can you see that's a natural response,
[23:09] right?
[23:10] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[23:12] >> Now, let's take that little girl and put
[23:14] her inside you as your own nervous
[23:16] system right now.
[23:19] Doesn't feel wanted, doesn't feel
[23:21] included, doesn't even feel considered.
[23:24] And what are you doing to her?
[23:29] >> Same thing.
[23:31] Not including
[23:32] >> What have you been doing?
[23:34] >> Not including her.
[23:36] >> Not just not not not only in not not
[23:39] including her, but trying to drown her
[23:42] out.
[23:44] >> Yeah.
[23:45] >> So, this is what you're doing. Follow
[23:46] along. Right. Your daughter comes home.
[23:48] She's been excluded. She's devastated.
[23:49] She's crying. She feels absolutely
[23:51] hopeless, useless, not even considered.
[23:54] You're like, "Honey, I've got just the
[23:56] solution. I want to hear all about it.
[23:58] Let's get in the car." You put her in
[23:59] the car, and you blast music as she's
[24:01] trying, the little 5-year-old is trying
[24:03] to talk to her mom, and you're not even
[24:05] looking at her.
[24:11] >> Yeah. I don't know how.
[24:15] You don't know how one
[24:19] >> I don't know how to be with that.
[24:21] >> I know. It's okay. But I want you to
[24:24] consider this is your training ground.
[24:29] You You're being given the greatest gift
[24:31] right now for the precursor to all
[24:34] relationships. I guarantee you right now
[24:36] as I say these words and the millions of
[24:38] people hopefully around the world who
[24:40] are getting to listen to this
[24:41] conversation, there's not one of them.
[24:43] Many are already in tears, but there's
[24:46] not one of them who doesn't relate to
[24:48] the feeling of at times in their life,
[24:50] maybe right now, feeling not wanted.
[24:54] Not one. Do you understand that?
[24:56] >> Yes.
[24:57] >> This is an intrinsic part of the human
[25:00] operating system that doesn't work. Is
[25:02] why we suffer, right? like limitation,
[25:04] fear, suffering, disease, scarcity.
[25:06] These are the inherent pillars of the
[25:08] current operating system that we don't
[25:11] by default feel that we're like God's
[25:13] gift to relationships. We don't by
[25:15] default think that everybody loves us.
[25:17] We don't by default think that, you
[25:19] know, we're like the greatest thing
[25:21] since sliced bread, you know. No, people
[25:24] by default think that there's something
[25:25] wrong with them. They're not wanted.
[25:27] They're not loved. So, yeah. I hate to
[25:29] break it to you, but welcome to the
[25:31] human experience.
[25:32] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[25:33] >> What better what better backdrop against
[25:37] which you get to learn how to find love
[25:40] and compassion than your own stories of
[25:44] inadequacy?
[25:47] >> Yeah, that's the
[25:50] that's the integration. That's the game.
[25:53] >> Well, let's look at the tattoo again.
[25:56] Hold it up and tell us what that tattoo
[25:59] represents.
[26:05] It represents
[26:08] the inclusion of all of it.
[26:12] >> Seems like there's a little bit of
[26:14] >> the little girl that feels rejected.
[26:15] Yeah.
[26:16] >> Oops. [snorts]
[26:18] You have a tattoo of a cup, a chalice,
[26:21] whatever you call it, on your wrist that
[26:23] for you is representative of the
[26:26] beautiful inclusive energy which I call
[26:29] love. that is accepting of all parts
[26:32] only that you have a tattoo like
[26:34] literally permanently on your wrist and
[26:36] you're saying yes this is what I stand
[26:38] for I include all parts oh just not the
[26:40] part of me that doesn't feel included
[26:43] [laughter]
[26:44] >> yeah I get the irony of that yeah
[26:47] >> yeah not only the irony it's the
[26:50] complete barricade to you finding love
[26:52] with other people
[26:55] of my expressions early on I said if you
[26:57] don't love and accept yourself what
[26:58] makes you think other people should
[27:02] I mean feel that that should be a bit of
[27:04] an ouch.
[27:08] >> Yeah.
[27:10] >> So you're walking around saying who you
[27:12] are and again it's not who you are but
[27:13] your conditioning your energetic
[27:15] signature the way that you present to
[27:16] the world unconsciously is I'm
[27:18] unacceptable. I'm not even considered.
[27:20] I'm definitely not wanted. That's who I
[27:22] am. Hi, nice to meet you. And then
[27:24] you're surprised that there isn't this
[27:26] plethora of men just lining up to be
[27:28] your suitor.
[27:32] >> Yeah.
[27:34] >> Now, I don't deny that it hurts, but we
[27:37] want to be able to shift from victim,
[27:38] which is the mode you're in, to
[27:40] responsible responsibility.
[27:43] Right now, as you've probably heard me
[27:45] say this before without even thinking
[27:47] about it, because you haven't until I
[27:49] ask a question. Do you have on your
[27:51] physical body anywhere a scar of any
[27:54] kind? Small, larger, or indifferent?
[27:56] >> Yeah.
[27:58] >> Whichever one you're willing to share.
[27:59] Where do you have one?
[28:00] >> Oh, uh,
[28:05] >> got loads. I have one on my finger from
[28:08] a like a like a knife cut.
[28:11] >> Okay, great. Which finger?
[28:14] >> This one.
[28:15] >> Okay. Your left right index finger.
[28:18] Okay, great.
[28:18] >> Index finger. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, great.
[28:20] So, before I asked you where you had if
[28:22] you had any scars or where were they,
[28:24] were you thinking of that scar on your
[28:26] right index finger?
[28:27] >> No.
[28:28] >> No. But but you're not trying to get rid
[28:30] of it, right? You're not going for a
[28:31] drive in the country cranking the music
[28:34] and throwing paint over your right hand
[28:35] so you don't see it.
[28:37] >> No. No.
[28:38] >> It's allowed to be there.
[28:40] >> Yeah.
[28:41] >> So, here's a question. Can you with me
[28:43] right now start for the first time ever
[28:45] in your life to allow the part of you
[28:48] that feels not wanted, not considered to
[28:50] be there?
[28:55] >> Yeah.
[28:58] >> That's all it's asking for. See, you've
[29:01] got it as though you're looking for
[29:02] somebody to want you, right? You're
[29:04] looking for somebody to pick you. You're
[29:06] looking for somebody to recognize you in
[29:08] the outside world.
[29:10] >> Yes.
[29:12] Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
[29:14] >> Yeah. Desperately.
[29:16] But the outside world is a mirror of the
[29:18] inside world. And the inside world is
[29:20] you're completely denying, rejecting,
[29:22] dismissing, pushing away, ignoring,
[29:25] overriding the part of you that wants to
[29:27] be picked.
[29:30] >> Yeah.
[29:31] >> So, here's the irony. The access to
[29:33] being loved and accepted in the world is
[29:35] for you to love and accept the part of
[29:37] the part of you that feels not wanted.
[29:43] That's the gift of that part of the
[29:45] code.
[29:47] >> Yeah.
[29:48] >> If you wanted to get a strong right
[29:50] bicep, what might you do?
[29:55] >> Work out.
[29:57] >> Specifically, if you wanted to get a
[29:58] strong right bicep, what might you do?
[30:02] uh lift a dumbbell.
[30:04] >> Yeah. On the right arm, right?
[30:06] >> Yeah.
[30:07] >> So, if you want to get a strong right
[30:10] bicep, you know that you need the
[30:12] resistance, the adversity of the
[30:14] heaviness of a dumbbell in your right
[30:16] hand.
[30:19] Do you see that?
[30:21] >> Yeah. I I I
[30:23] suppress
[30:26] most negative emotions, which is why I
[30:29] got which is why the message of
[30:30] including all of it is so freeing
[30:33] because I don't subconsciously do that.
[30:36] >> Okay, I know. But this is what we're
[30:38] working on right now and why there's so
[30:40] much resistance, right? To stay with the
[30:41] metaphor, you know that if you're going
[30:43] to want to strengthen your right bicep,
[30:45] you have to put some sort of weight
[30:47] significant in your right hand and do
[30:49] curls, right? That's how you're going to
[30:51] strengthen that bicep.
[30:54] >> Yeah. Okay.
[30:56] >> How do you think we're going to help Joe
[30:59] to become better at being empathetic,
[31:01] compassionate, all accepting, and allow
[31:03] and make space for all of it? What would
[31:05] be one of the quotequote equivalent
[31:07] dumbbells for her to be able to learn
[31:09] that capacity to love?
[31:16] Um,
[31:18] I've had experiences of it with friends,
[31:20] with like people who can hold that space
[31:23] for me. I guess I have to practice on my
[31:25] own.
[31:26] >> Well, you can get rid of the guest.
[31:27] That's the only thing that's missing.
[31:30] You have a tattoo that says make space
[31:32] for all of it. And yet, you're not doing
[31:34] that.
[31:38] Like,
[31:38] >> no. Sorry. I
[31:41] >> like you're a sweetheart. I don't deny
[31:43] your capacity to love, but your capacity
[31:45] to love right now is being completely
[31:47] compromised by your denial of a part of
[31:50] your humanity.
[31:54] Like you said, you suppress negative
[31:56] feelings. I get it. How do you think
[31:58] that's going to work in a relationship?
[32:01] >> Yeah, I know. I know. I don't
[32:05] >> Are you going to meet some guy who never
[32:06] gets negative? You're going to meet a
[32:07] guy who's just like the poster child for
[32:09] positivity, optimism, you know, happy
[32:12] golucky all the time.
[32:15] Do you think that guy is going to be
[32:17] like a real real human?
[32:23] No negative thing emotions, no worries,
[32:26] no stress,
[32:27] >> gets laid off from work and is just like
[32:29] coming home bouncing like the, you know,
[32:32] [ __ ] at the end of the rainbow and
[32:33] life is good. Or do you think that you
[32:35] might have a partner from time to time
[32:36] who's going to deal with the stress of
[32:39] heartache? You know, that maybe his
[32:40] parents have gone into hospice, god
[32:42] forbid, one of them's died, maybe his
[32:43] brother's just gotten cancer, maybe he
[32:45] gets laid off from work.
[32:50] >> Yeah,
[32:51] >> probably more realistic.
[32:52] >> I would never want to to put that on
[32:54] anyone.
[32:56] >> Yeah, but you do it readily to yourself
[32:58] 24/7.
[32:59] [laughter]
[33:02] >> Yeah. No, I get that. I just
[33:08] I I I mean I feel a lot and I feel a lot
[33:12] alone. So when I do feel stuff I I shut
[33:16] the door and I guess I only feel safe to
[33:18] do that on my own. But then it kind of
[33:21] keeps coming back. So it's not resolved
[33:23] if I'm having
[33:24] >> Why do you think it keeps coming back?
[33:26] >> I don't know. Cuz I felt it a lot.
[33:30] >> No, you felt it with resistance.
[33:33] Okay.
[33:35] >> You felt it with lack of acceptance.
[33:39] Imagine again your daughter, she's come
[33:41] home from kindergarten, first grade,
[33:43] whatever. Same sort of scenario. And she
[33:46] has something to show you like that is
[33:48] really, really, really important to her.
[33:50] But you're the mom and maybe you have a
[33:52] newborn and they're 6 months and you're
[33:54] breastfeeding. And mommy, mommy, mommy.
[33:57] Your daughter who's five or six is
[33:58] trying to get your attention, but you
[34:01] have other things you're attending to.
[34:02] And then your husband comes home and he
[34:04] wants something and you have to put food
[34:05] together and you're in the middle of
[34:06] doing laundry, but your daughter keeps
[34:08] coming back. Why does she keep coming
[34:10] back?
[34:12] >> Cuz she hasn't been heard.
[34:14] >> Bingo.
[34:16] That's all that's happening is there's
[34:18] the part of you that is so hurt, that
[34:20] feels so rejected, that feels unseen,
[34:22] not even recognized, that keeps coming
[34:25] back because you haven't made space for
[34:26] it yet. It's not included in that tattoo
[34:28] on your on your wrist.
[34:32] Can I ask a question?
[34:33] >> You of course you can.
[34:36] >> For those times where I have felt it
[34:41] like in its fullness
[34:43] >> where I feel safe enough for to not for
[34:45] it to not go anywhere too dark.
[34:47] >> Yeah.
[34:47] >> Is that just that I haven't
[34:49] >> that hasn't actually been in its
[34:50] fullness yet? Like I haven't gone fully
[34:52] there.
[34:54] >> Two things. You've gone fully there in
[34:56] terms of feeling it. So imagine you're
[34:57] walking along
[35:00] um just a pathway and you come across in
[35:02] the woods a big well like a big hole and
[35:05] you find out that you you you can hear a
[35:07] voice and you can't see cuz it's very
[35:09] dark and it's very deep but your friend
[35:12] is at the bottom of the well you're like
[35:13] holy [ __ ] like what are you doing down
[35:14] there John let's keep John alive for now
[35:18] [laughter]
[35:19] right
[35:21] and even though he didn't like you know
[35:23] you care enough that [laughter] you know
[35:26] he's
[35:27] rescue John still. No, I don't know
[35:29] anyone called John. So, go [ __ ]
[35:31] yourself. [laughter]
[35:33] >> Go [ __ ] yourself, John. [gasps]
[35:36] >> Nothing [clears throat] great. You just
[35:37] stay in the well. Going to turn up the
[35:39] podcast with me [laughter] in your in
[35:41] your earbuds, right? Yeah. No. So, you
[35:44] got a friend who you genuinely care
[35:45] who's down the well.
[35:47] >> Feeling the part of you that feels
[35:49] rejected is jumping down the well and
[35:50] being with them.
[35:53] >> That's Yeah, that's funny.
[35:57] >> [laughter]
[35:58] >> funny but not right. Yeah. You're all
[36:01] you're doing is you're being in the
[36:03] emotion. You're being in the story of
[36:06] not rejected. You're feeling sorry for
[36:08] yourself versus this is the distinction
[36:11] recognizing that part of your
[36:14] conditioning is simply part of the human
[36:18] disposition.
[36:20] It's not you.
[36:21] >> That's true.
[36:22] >> There you go. It's
[36:27] And you thought you were smart.
[36:29] [laughter]
[36:31] >> I know none of it's true, but I haven't.
[36:35] It's not true. But it is nonetheless the
[36:38] mechanism for you to embrace your
[36:40] humanity, which is one of the biggest
[36:44] and I would assert only important
[36:46] precursors to having a good relationship
[36:49] because you can't be with another human
[36:51] if you can't be with your own humanness.
[36:55] It's so juvenile. [snorts]
[36:58] >> It is. And that's why I just said I
[37:00] choose my words very carefully and very
[37:03] consciously. This is my dear the
[37:05] opportunity, the opportunity for you to
[37:08] practice motherhood right now as a
[37:10] precursor to you being an actual mother
[37:12] in the real world
[37:14] and you've been pushing away your
[37:16] daughter. It doesn't make you a bad
[37:17] person. It just means you weren't quite
[37:19] ready or you didn't get it. You were
[37:20] just feeling with her as opposed to
[37:22] holding her feelings.
[37:27] Do you see the difference?
[37:29] It's no different than that scar on your
[37:31] right index finger.
[37:35] >> So, who is it that decides that she's
[37:38] worth holding?
[37:40] >> You, the essence of you, the conscious
[37:41] self, the being, the soul, the spirit.
[37:45] Love, the energy of love
[37:48] makes space for everybody. And
[37:50] especially somebody who's hurt.
[37:53] [laughter]
[37:53] What are you talking about?
[37:54] >> It's so funny that I have this. I don't
[37:56] even care.
[37:57] >> I mean, hello. That's why I keep [ __ ]
[37:58] referencing. It's like you got a
[38:00] freaking tattoo on your own forearm that
[38:03] is representing the very antithesis of
[38:06] the energy you claim to want to be.
[38:13] I didn't know I was doing that. I
[38:14] thought I was I [laughter] thought by
[38:16] feeling it that was including it.
[38:20] No,
[38:20] >> but it's not.
[38:21] >> It's not.
[38:24] I love that you have the ability to feel
[38:26] it.
[38:28] >> That's beautiful. That shows incredible
[38:31] compassion, amazing sympathy and
[38:33] empathy. You have beautiful qualities.
[38:35] You'll be an incredible friend. You'll
[38:37] be an incredible heart partner. You'll
[38:39] be an incredible mother. But you just
[38:41] collapsed your feeling with somebody
[38:43] else's versus making space for them,
[38:47] holding them
[38:50] and distinguishing it as a part of you.
[38:53] It's like you getting upset because you
[38:54] have two arms. It's like what? You know,
[38:58] that's an inherent part of the human
[38:59] genetic, you know, code of having two
[39:02] arms in our anatomy. It's like you don't
[39:03] get upset about it. You you doesn't even
[39:06] until I even pose that question, you're
[39:07] like, well, that's bizarre. Why would I
[39:09] get upset about that? That's just part
[39:10] of being human.
[39:12] I'm so upset my beautiful friends have
[39:14] three arms. [laughter] It's like,
[39:18] no, you know that that's part of the
[39:20] human anatomy. Well, guess what? Part of
[39:22] the human anatomy emotionally and
[39:23] psychologically is the feeling of
[39:25] inadequacy, not wanted, not not loved.
[39:29] That's just part of it.
[39:33] >> So now it becomes whoopde-doo. Oh yeah,
[39:35] there's a part of me by the way that
[39:36] feels not wanted. And sometimes it might
[39:38] show up in our relationship, especially,
[39:40] you know, when you're with whoever's
[39:41] next and they are seemingly distracted
[39:45] or they haven't responded or they
[39:47] haven't come home at the time they said
[39:49] they would. You know, in a beautiful
[39:51] vulnerable relationship, you could say,
[39:52] "Honey, I know this is my thing, but
[39:56] sometimes when I don't hear from you
[39:58] when you said you'd call or it feels
[40:00] like you're not giving me attention, I
[40:02] go into the part of me, the part of me
[40:04] that feels not wanted. I know that's
[40:06] mine, but I just want to share that with
[40:09] you as somebody who would probably love
[40:10] to hold space with me for that part of
[40:13] me. Do you see?
[40:16] >> Yeah.
[40:16] >> That's beautiful. That's vulnerability.
[40:18] >> That's a very calm way of putting it.
[40:20] [laughter]
[40:21] >> Versus your desperation screaming
[40:24] through the countryside with a podcast
[40:25] wearing. Yeah. [laughter]
[40:30] >> But can you see how beautiful, powerful,
[40:31] and loving that is now? you're making
[40:33] space for you and with the right partner
[40:35] and and if that partner dismisses that,
[40:37] well then that that's not the partner
[40:38] you want to be with. You want somebody
[40:40] who can include your humanness, but they
[40:42] don't stand a chance to include your
[40:44] humanness if you even don't.
[40:49] [snorts] How do I include the part
[40:51] that's
[40:53] scared
[40:56] it's
[40:58] it's going to kill me? That's the part
[41:01] I'm scared of that I'm that I'm really
[41:02] trying to drown out because I know
[41:04] that's not true. But it's really
[41:07] >> uncomfortable to feel.
[41:10] >> Yeah. Well, listen, it's the same part.
[41:14] If there is a part of us that by design,
[41:17] which is the human part, feels not
[41:20] wanted, rejected, not considered, not
[41:22] even seen, then its experience is
[41:25] there's no point being here.
[41:28] primordial imperative of a human being
[41:30] of any mammal is to survive. We want to
[41:31] belong. We need to be part of the tribe.
[41:33] Right? So if it feels and from you the
[41:37] host or the hostess not wanted, it's
[41:40] like well then [ __ ] it. I might as well
[41:41] be out of there.
[41:44] My own my own being doesn't want this
[41:47] part of me. The very fabric of who you
[41:50] are and why you're here is to integrate
[41:51] these parts of you. And you as the
[41:53] hostess of your own conditioning is
[41:55] rejecting your own conditioning.
[41:58] So the death is to the part of you to
[42:01] that part of you that feels not seen,
[42:04] not wanted, not even considered. That's
[42:06] the death to that part of you. Here's
[42:08] the irony. Death happens through
[42:11] integration.
[42:15] That's the hardest part I think of the
[42:17] the levels is the
[42:20] letting it be rather than letting it go.
[42:23] >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. You've heard me say
[42:25] before, the ego doesn't want to be
[42:26] healed. It wants to be held.
[42:29] >> Like it's the same thing with your right
[42:31] index finger scar. You didn't try to get
[42:34] rid of it.
[42:36] You didn't try and kill it. It's there.
[42:38] You integrated it. So that means it's
[42:40] now gone. But it's there. But it's gone
[42:42] because you you allowed it.
[42:44] >> We're back to the [ __ ] tattoo on your
[42:46] wrist again.
[42:49] >> Yeah.
[42:52] >> So, it's really I love me, which
[42:55] includes all the parts of me, including
[42:57] the part of me that doesn't feel
[42:59] lovable. What What better mechanism to
[43:02] develop self-love? If you loved every
[43:05] part of you, if listen, I with no slight
[43:08] towards your beautiful friends, whoever
[43:09] they are, and I don't know if they're
[43:11] beautiful, that's just the cognitive
[43:12] biased lens that you look through. But,
[43:15] you know, let's for argument sake say
[43:16] they are and they've got all this
[43:17] attention. I feel sorry for them
[43:21] more so than, you know, for you because
[43:23] you've got the instrument, you've got
[43:25] the mechanism to learn true self-love.
[43:28] If all they've gotten is love, and I've
[43:30] seen this so many times with people I've
[43:31] worked with who are famous, who are
[43:33] rich, who are gorgeous, who are models
[43:34] or whatever, they'd never learn. They
[43:36] never had to learn to make space for
[43:38] their own humanity because everyone else
[43:40] did it for them.
[43:42] >> Yeah, I see that.
[43:44] >> Then it shows up when they're 40, 50,
[43:46] and things fell apart. Now they really
[43:48] are a [ __ ] mess because they didn't
[43:49] learn the skills.
[43:52] So maybe it's like, "Thank you, Lord,
[43:53] for not having this like line of dudes
[43:56] trying to like possess me so that I can
[43:58] learn to make space for myself first."
[44:04] >> Yeah.
[44:06] >> I tell you, listen, if you really get
[44:08] what I'm telling you, this is going to
[44:09] happen so [ __ ] quickly for you.
[44:14] Like, you could meet someone next week
[44:16] and that could be the partner for the
[44:18] rest of your life. If you really embody
[44:21] the energy of complete inclusion, of
[44:22] allowing all of it, all parts of you,
[44:24] those that particularly feel rejected,
[44:26] not seen, not wanted, you just stepped
[44:29] into the mastery of relationship.
[44:34] Cuz how on earth do you think you're
[44:36] going to make space for the little boy
[44:37] and the guy you're going to meet who
[44:38] feels he's not good enough and because
[44:40] he doesn't earn enough money compared to
[44:41] his friends who are millionaires? or,
[44:43] oh, my buddy just bought this really
[44:45] fancy boat and I feel bad cuz I want to
[44:47] buy that for you. But like, what are you
[44:50] going to do? Just reject him because he
[44:52] has that part of him that feels
[44:53] insecure?
[44:58] >> No, of course not.
[44:59] >> Of course not.
[45:02] Do you see? You're being given the
[45:04] foundation for the mastery of
[45:07] relationships. You're being given the
[45:09] greatest obstacle, which is our own like
[45:12] self-rejection.
[45:14] You've just bought into it and and
[45:16] compounded it. And now it's like, "Oh,
[45:19] oh my god, it's actually really [ __ ]
[45:21] adorable. There's a part of me that just
[45:24] feels unlovable. There's a part of me
[45:26] that actually feels beyond unlovable,
[45:28] not even seen.
[45:30] What a great opportunity for me to make
[45:33] space for that. for me to see that part
[45:34] of me, for me to recognize that part of
[45:37] the human conditioning is to feel that
[45:40] sense of inadequacy and insecurity. I
[45:42] guarantee you right now, Joe, there are
[45:43] people with tears in their eyes because
[45:45] they're recognizing that same part in
[45:47] them. You're already already making
[45:51] relationships with people you probably
[45:53] will never meet because you're helping
[45:55] them to find that form of relationship
[45:57] with themselves as we speak.
[46:01] >> Yeah,
[46:01] >> that's pretty cool.
[46:03] Yeah.
[46:05] >> How does that feel now?
[46:09] >> I guess I'm I'm thinking back to
[46:13] when it happened and what there was a
[46:15] moment where it kind of all just
[46:16] disappeared really quickly.
[46:19] >> Um and it was it was the word shame
[46:23] and it was like I was so ashamed of my
[46:26] experience that I wasn't letting it
[46:28] happen.
[46:29] >> Yeah. I guess cuz I don't know where
[46:31] that shame comes from. I don't know why
[46:34] it shows up.
[46:36] I don't know how to then include it.
[46:40] Maybe I don't need to know where it
[46:41] comes from. It's just sometimes people
[46:44] feel ashamed about how they feel. So
[46:47] give it the finger and don't even let it
[46:51] arise in the first place.
[46:52] >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
[46:54] wait, wait, wait, wait. Do we like your
[46:56] daughter comes home, she feels shame
[46:58] because she'd messed up the exercise.
[47:00] She the friends of hers made fun of her
[47:03] painting, you know, because they were
[47:05] doing a painting class and all her
[47:06] friends laughed at her and she came home
[47:08] to mom with shame. Do you give her the
[47:10] finger?
[47:12] >> Definitely not. No,
[47:13] >> no, [snorts] definitely not. So, do you
[47:15] see you just did it again? Shame is the
[47:18] experience of that young girl who feels
[47:21] so embarrassed that all her friends are
[47:23] being picked and she's not. That's
[47:24] that's a horrific feeling.
[47:27] >> It's not the shame of that. It's the
[47:29] shame of that I feel
[47:33] >> that it affects me.
[47:35] >> Oh, okay. Right. Okay. Get it. Yeah.
[47:37] Which is two sides of the same coin. So,
[47:39] the shame that you're you're human
[47:42] >> and that that you don't want to feel
[47:44] bad,
[47:45] >> but then do you see how preposterous
[47:46] that is, too?
[47:48] >> Yeah. Kind of. I'm getting there.
[47:52] >> Yeah. Do you want to give your finger to
[47:54] that part of you that is feeling a bit
[47:56] embarrassed that you won't make space
[47:58] for the part of you that feels rejected?
[48:01] Or can you see that's another part of
[48:03] just being human?
[48:08] >> Yeah, I'll try. Yeah.
[48:11] >> Well, I get it. I want to be with you.
[48:13] It's not a try thing. It's a do or you
[48:15] don't.
[48:16] >> Yeah.
[48:16] >> Do you have a problem with the fact that
[48:18] you have two arms?
[48:21] >> Why not?
[48:24] They're really handy. I use them a lot
[48:26] and they came with a baggage. [laughter]
[48:29] >> No pun intended. They're very handy.
[48:32] >> Oh, I didn't see that.
[48:35] >> They're very useful. Yeah,
[48:36] >> they're useful because they allow you to
[48:38] do things, right? They give you like
[48:40] mobility and Yeah. So now apply the same
[48:44] distinction or perview on the part of
[48:48] you that feels rejected.
[48:51] That could be handy for what reason?
[48:56] What would be handy for a human being,
[48:58] particularly a woman who has aspirations
[49:00] to be a mother, to have a part of her
[49:02] that feels sometimes rejected or not
[49:04] chosen?
[49:06] >> I'm thinking now it's more
[49:09] it's the thing on top of that. It's the
[49:12] letting something affect me. That's what
[49:15] I'm not allowing.
[49:17] Or is that the same thing?
[49:19] >> It's well, it's part of the same
[49:20] mechanism. But just listen to what you
[49:23] said.
[49:25] You want to be in a relationship. Yes.
[49:29] And I'm going to assert part of being in
[49:30] a relationship are all the things that
[49:32] come with it. Love, being inspired,
[49:35] being moved, being touched,
[49:38] right?
[49:39] creating memories.
[49:42] I would say all of those belong in the
[49:44] bucket of allowing life to affect you.
[49:46] [laughter]
[49:49] >> Yeah. Okay.
[49:54] And I guess when I was young, I didn't
[49:58] every time it happened in school, I
[50:00] didn't let it affect me. So, it just
[50:02] built up.
[50:03] >> Yeah. It's just accumulated over time,
[50:05] which is why it feels a little bit
[50:06] overwhelming or intense, that's all.
[50:08] Yeah.
[50:09] >> You know, think again of your girl, your
[50:11] little daughter is coming home wanting
[50:13] to show you a picture or whatever she
[50:14] did at school and you keep ignoring her.
[50:17] One of two things is going to happen.
[50:18] Short term, it's going to escalate,
[50:20] right? She's going to probably get
[50:21] louder, more consistent, scream more, do
[50:24] whatever it is to get and then then she
[50:25] might become apathetic and quit. That's
[50:27] the dying part. It's like what's the
[50:30] point?
[50:32] So, you've got both sort of still at
[50:34] play. There's that voice in you that is
[50:37] desperate for you to include it, to
[50:39] allow it, to love it, to accept it, to
[50:41] recognize it's part of your humanity.
[50:46] Okay. Yeah. It's getting all muddled in
[50:51] my head, but it's like I was ashamed to
[50:54] feel shame.
[50:55] >> Yeah.
[50:56] >> To feel. I was ashamed to feel shame to
[50:59] feel.
[51:00] [snorts]
[51:00] >> Yeah. And it's why people get anxious
[51:02] about being anxious. [laughter]
[51:05] It's like the thing, the trigger, but
[51:06] then
[51:07] >> the the reaction.
[51:09] >> Yeah.
[51:10] >> Like I'm not allowed to react.
[51:12] >> Yeah. Which is asinine when you look at
[51:15] it as you are a human who is a sentient
[51:18] being who has no choice but to react
[51:21] whether it's expressed or not.
[51:23] Internally you're going to react.
[51:27] So what you're saying is I'm human but
[51:29] I'm not allowed to be human. Okay. Good
[51:31] luck.
[51:32] >> Have fun with that.
[51:33] Do you see how preposterous that is?
[51:36] >> I do.
[51:37] >> And [snorts] then you want to be in a
[51:38] relationship with another human. It's
[51:39] like, okay, that's going to go really
[51:41] well. [laughter]
[51:42] >> Yeah.
[51:44] >> Yeah. We've got to feel.
[51:47] >> Yeah.
[51:49] Like I don't know many people who feel
[51:51] to the depths that I feel. And I love
[51:53] that about me because I make space for
[51:55] it.
[51:57] I don't know many people who care as
[51:58] much as I care. And that's not in any
[52:00] way to dismiss people's capacity to
[52:02] care. There's some incredibly caring
[52:04] people out there, but most people are
[52:05] caring through the lens of survival.
[52:07] It's not sort of the absence of the
[52:10] ability to care, but it's just sort of
[52:11] right now prioritized towards their own
[52:14] selfish needs, which I totally get. But
[52:17] real care is when you've you've
[52:18] addressed your own needs. You've
[52:20] integrated them. You've allowed them.
[52:22] Now I can really show up and be present
[52:24] in relationships. That's why I'm saying
[52:26] you couldn't even have a relationship
[52:27] because you're not even allowing space
[52:29] for your own experience.
[52:32] Okay. [laughter]
[52:38] >> And here's the beauty, Joe. You become
[52:41] such a more attractive woman, human, and
[52:45] girlfriend, partner, wife, when you make
[52:47] space for all of you.
[52:55] Isn't that nice?
[53:01] Yeah, I I can't imagine
[53:07] I can't imagine going to work or just
[53:10] being around the house in my day-to-day
[53:12] life just feeling everything I feel
[53:13] like. It's kind of frowned upon to maybe
[53:17] it's a British thing, I don't know. But
[53:20] like it's a bit much, isn't it? To
[53:25] to feel things really intensely all the
[53:27] time. like it's
[53:28] >> well, we don't know cuz you've never
[53:30] done it.
[53:31] >> Okay.
[53:33] >> And here's my assertion. Yeah, the first
[53:35] few days, maybe the first couple of
[53:37] weeks, it might seem intense, but then
[53:39] it's going to normalize. It's just
[53:42] accumulated.
[53:45] You know, it's like saying it's frowned
[53:47] upon to like, you know, do laundry or
[53:49] show your dirty laundry in the house. So
[53:51] you just keep show, you know, shoving it
[53:53] in a cupboard somewhere and you got
[53:55] three decades worth of dirty laundry.
[53:59] You could definitely [laughter] argue
[54:03] >> Yeah,
[54:03] >> right. You could then argue, yeah, well
[54:06] [ __ ] it's What if I just bring all my
[54:07] laundry out? Well, yeah, you got three
[54:09] decades. It's going to be a little
[54:11] uncomfortable to begin with.
[54:14] >> But give it a couple of weeks and you've
[54:15] worked through it. Now you're like a
[54:16] normal person. You got one basket.
[54:18] That's manageable. Do you see? Same with
[54:21] your emotions and your feelings. Yeah,
[54:22] there's a backlog, but it doesn't work
[54:24] like that emotionally and and
[54:26] intellectually as it does with the
[54:28] material world. Meaning, yeah, you might
[54:30] have a few more days where you're a
[54:32] little bit more emotional, you have more
[54:33] depth, but it it it transpires very
[54:37] quickly on that level.
[54:40] >> Okay.
[54:41] >> Do you see that?
[54:44] >> Yeah. I'll uh I'll give it a go.
[54:47] [laughter]
[54:48] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[54:49] >> Watch out world.
[54:50] >> Watch out world. Joe just decided to
[54:52] show up and actually be human. God
[54:54] forbid.
[54:56] >> Yeah.
[54:56] >> So what I hear in the background is yes,
[54:58] maybe okay that you don't necessarily
[55:00] have these recollections of a bad
[55:01] childhood or that when your brother was
[55:03] born a year later that you suddenly were
[55:06] pushed aside, but maybe you did, you
[55:08] know, were raised in a family where, as
[55:11] is often the case, kids that have been
[55:13] seen and not heard. So you learned to
[55:14] suppress yourself a little bit. And that
[55:16] is partly British. I know I was a very
[55:18] good boy growing up.
[55:24] So another story to look at, my dear,
[55:26] might be you're not free to be you.
[55:30] Can you see that?
[55:33] That could be another context. Joe's not
[55:36] free to be her.
[55:40] >> I get really angry.
[55:43] Yeah,
[55:44] as you should. Because that's complete
[55:47] suppression. That's tyranny.
[55:56] [snorts] What's it like walking around
[55:58] feeling, believing that you're not free
[56:00] to be you?
[56:06] >> Like there's me and there's the wall.
[56:09] >> Yeah. It's like it's just heavy and
[56:14] there's nowhere to go. Suffocating.
[56:16] >> Yeah.
[56:17] >> Suffocating.
[56:18] >> Yeah. Well, this feels like maybe the
[56:21] big catch all that hasn't been
[56:23] expressed.
[56:25] Here you are. Is Is it possible for you
[56:28] to not be you?
[56:33] >> No.
[56:34] >> I try but Yeah. No.
[56:36] >> Yeah. You try, but you can't cuz you're
[56:37] there. I can see you. I can hear you and
[56:39] everyone around you can, you know,
[56:41] definitely feel your presence and hold
[56:43] you, right? You you you exist and then
[56:46] the story you live in is yes, I exist,
[56:48] but I'm not allowed to.
[56:52] [snorts]
[56:52] >> That would piss off anyone.
[56:54] >> Yeah.
[56:58] >> Yeah, I see that. I feel that.
[57:01] >> Yeah.
[57:03] And that would help to reinforce what
[57:05] we've just been talking about, right? is
[57:06] that you're not allowed to have your
[57:08] feelings.
[57:11] You can't be seen. You can't be
[57:12] recognized. So again, this makes even
[57:14] more sense energetically with
[57:15] relationships is you don't even allow
[57:17] yourself to be seen. Then why would
[57:19] anyone else see you?
[57:22] You don't allow yourself to be. So why
[57:24] would anyone want to be with you?
[57:31] And they do time and time again. And I
[57:35] I don't let it.
[57:36] >> No, of course you can't
[57:38] >> get angry at them. [laughter]
[57:39] It's not their fault.
[57:40] >> Yeah, I see that. I see the pattern.
[57:43] >> Yeah, that's all it is. This is all
[57:44] we're talking about in all of my work is
[57:46] we're just revealing patterns,
[57:48] conditioning, and code.
[57:50] >> You're living in a in a story that you
[57:52] feeling
[57:54] >> inadequate, not considered, not seen,
[57:56] shouldn't be there. You shut it down.
[57:58] You flip the bird to it. You take it out
[58:00] to the countryside with loud podcasts.
[58:03] not realizing that's just part of your
[58:04] humanity. [laughter]
[58:06] You start to see how preposterous it is,
[58:08] right?
[58:09] >> It's a great image.
[58:11] >> Yeah. [laughter]
[58:12] >> I had to get petrol a lot.
[58:17] >> So, not only you denying your own
[58:19] experience of being human, you're you're
[58:20] wasting a lot of money on gas.
[58:22] [laughter]
[58:23] >> Yeah.
[58:25] >> A lot of your content is free. So, thank
[58:27] you to buy [laughter]
[58:30] >> soothing podcast.
[58:32] >> Yeah. Yeah, it's funny.
[58:34] >> So, not only now do you get to have all
[58:36] your feelings, you're going to have a
[58:37] bit more cash cuz you're not [laughter]
[58:38] wasting burning, you know, gasoline
[58:41] driving around the countryside. Yeah.
[58:43] [laughter]
[58:45] It's a win-win. And all of it sits in
[58:48] the bigger container, which is Joe can't
[58:50] be Joe. [snorts]
[58:52] Good luck with that one.
[58:54] It's crazy
[58:56] to come full circle to think that I
[58:59] remember thinking I wish I wish my one
[59:02] of my parents
[59:04] had sat me down at that point and said,
[59:07] "By the way, we've never told you this,
[59:09] but when you were five, someone
[59:12] kidnapped you and held you at gunpoint
[59:14] or something really dramatic so that I
[59:16] could be like, "Oh, now I get why all
[59:20] this stuff happened so intensely."
[59:22] >> Yeah. And I don't I don't have that
[59:26] reference point of where I became so
[59:28] afraid of my own mind that I just run.
[59:31] >> Not literally, but
[59:33] >> I have to have noise.
[59:35] >> Yeah.
[59:35] >> To escape my own mind.
[59:38] >> Yeah.
[59:38] >> It's like there's nowhere to go.
[59:42] >> Precisely. Which is why you're learning
[59:44] the most powerful tool any human being
[59:46] can learn, which is presence and love.
[59:51] >> [ __ ] Yeah.
[59:52] >> [ __ ] [laughter]
[59:55] >> Yeah, I don't want to do that.
[59:58] >> Okay. Well, good luck with the rest of
[1:00:00] your life running away from yourself.
[1:00:02] Let me know how that works out.
[1:00:08] You see how preposterous it is, right?
[1:00:10] Like you're literally trying to get away
[1:00:12] from the you that you are
[1:00:14] with all of its conditioning and all of
[1:00:16] its beauty and all of its kindness and
[1:00:18] all of its neuro neurosis. And that's
[1:00:21] the humanity. That's the beauty. That is
[1:00:23] self-love. It's making space for all of
[1:00:26] it. Like I don't I've never met anyone
[1:00:28] with that tattoo. Exactly.
[1:00:30] You've literally declared it through ink
[1:00:33] on your own skin. Now you get to step
[1:00:37] into that energy.
[1:00:40] I've never thought of making space for
[1:00:42] shame. I thought it was
[1:00:45] hurt and anger and rejection, but
[1:00:50] shame I never thought I would have to
[1:00:52] make space for
[1:00:54] >> just
[1:00:54] >> or was something that I wasn't making
[1:00:56] space for.
[1:00:57] >> Hurt and anger, the byproducts of the
[1:00:58] shame that we feel. There are people out
[1:01:01] now listening who are hiding in their
[1:01:03] car, in their office, in their cubicle,
[1:01:05] on a bus, on a train, listening to this,
[1:01:09] who are hurt because of the shame they
[1:01:11] feel. like they might be sitting on an
[1:01:13] airplane right now and they're they're
[1:01:14] shameful because they've got an eating
[1:01:16] disorder and they think the person next
[1:01:17] to them looks at them as they're too
[1:01:19] skinny or they look like an addict or
[1:01:20] the opposite. They feel like they're too
[1:01:23] heavy and part of their body is leaning,
[1:01:25] you know, they're trying to keep their
[1:01:27] belly away from the other person's
[1:01:28] armrest or you know, it's part of the
[1:01:32] human condition.
[1:01:34] The shame that somebody knows that
[1:01:35] they're cheating on their spouse right
[1:01:37] now and they don't have the courage to
[1:01:38] share with them.
[1:01:42] It's everywhere.
[1:01:46] >> Yeah.
[1:01:48] >> And you have the opportunity right now
[1:01:50] and as part of your conditioning to make
[1:01:52] space for that.
[1:01:54] And here's the beauty. When you make
[1:01:56] space for your own humanity, including
[1:01:58] the parts of you that feel shame, that
[1:02:00] shame starts to dissipate.
[1:02:04] Yeah,
[1:02:08] it's quite beautiful.
[1:02:12] >> Yeah. Okay.
[1:02:14] [clears throat and snorts]
[1:02:15] >> So, do we know that Joe's going to spend
[1:02:17] the rest of her life by herself?
[1:02:20] >> No.
[1:02:22] >> Do we think there might be an even
[1:02:24] better chance now after this
[1:02:25] conversation that she's more likely to
[1:02:27] spend her life with somebody who can
[1:02:29] also love her to the degree that she
[1:02:31] loves herself?
[1:02:34] Yeah,
[1:02:36] >> I'd say that's a pretty good turnaround.
[1:02:42] >> Yeah, thanks.
[1:02:44] >> Thank you. You're a sweetheart.
[1:02:47] And again, nothing against your friends.
[1:02:48] I'm glad that they have their partners.
[1:02:50] But do we also know that just because
[1:02:51] they've got partners or even girls
[1:02:53] hitting on them that the rest of their
[1:02:55] life is just like [ __ ] hunky dory?
[1:02:59] >> No.
[1:03:00] >> No, we don't know that at all.
[1:03:02] They might be coming to you in 5 years.
[1:03:03] You're happily married. You're nursing
[1:03:05] with your beautiful second baby and
[1:03:08] they're going through divorce. They're
[1:03:09] devastated and they've become, you know,
[1:03:11] addicted to some sort of pain meds.
[1:03:16] You never know.
[1:03:20] So, I wouldn't use other people's lives
[1:03:22] as an excuse as to why they've got it
[1:03:24] all together and you haven't. That's
[1:03:25] just the way that the brain is using
[1:03:28] external examples to justify your own
[1:03:31] perspective.
[1:03:35] So my invitation to you is just as
[1:03:38] you're learning to allow all parts of
[1:03:39] you to be there, just allow life to be
[1:03:41] there. I don't know what I don't know
[1:03:42] what it means. I don't know where it's
[1:03:43] going to go, but I allow it to be.
[1:03:46] That's real peace.
[1:03:51] >> Sound good?
[1:03:53] >> Yeah, sounds good.
[1:03:56] Such a joy to be with you, Joe. I hope
[1:03:58] you get to find the same level of true
[1:04:01] pleasure it is to be with yourself as
[1:04:03] others feel when they're with you.
[1:04:08] >> Thank you. Yeah, you're going to be an
[1:04:10] extraordinary mom and you've been gifted
[1:04:11] the great conditioning to develop that
[1:04:13] level of love, compassion, acceptance of
[1:04:16] your own conditioning that will be the
[1:04:18] precursor to you being an extraordinary
[1:04:20] mother for somebody or somebody's.
[1:04:24] >> Thank you.
[1:04:26] >> It can all fit in that little beautiful
[1:04:27] cup on your wrist. Okay.
[1:04:29] >> Yeah.
[1:04:30] >> Make space for all of it.
[1:04:33] >> Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.
[1:04:36] >> Of course. It's really good to be with
[1:04:38] you.