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Inspiration

Comedy's Political Power and the Cancel Culture Debate

Rainn Wilson
Rainn Wilson
Nov 5, 2026
9 min de leitura

De Soul Boom w/ Rainn Wilson

Assistir · 5

Rainn Wilson opens his Soul Boom conversation with Chelsea Handler by asking a question that sounds like a bar argument and is meant as a real inquiry: what is going on in the world of comedy right now? Across a little over an hour, the two work through why comedians have become front-page news, why podcasts turned the stand-up stage into a political arena, what cancel culture did to the way comics write, and whether a person who makes jokes owes anybody anything. The talk keeps circling back to a larger question about what laughter is for, and it drifts from media critique into joy, grief, and the stubborn habit of getting up on stage at all.

Leitura · 7 seções

What is going on in the world of comedy right now?

The episode starts with Wilson setting the scene and undercutting himself in the same breath. "I'm not in the world of comedy," he says. "I'm just an actor. I was on one show." Then he presses the point. Comedians are front-page news every single day, he says, for what they say, what they think, and what they joke about, and also for what they choose not to joke about. The lines between podcasts, stand-up specials, social media, acting, and political commentary have blurred until they are hard to tell apart.

Handler's answer is blunt. Comedians, she says, are "everywhere and they're news drivers." She ties that to the rise of podcasting and the Joe Rogan-style culture that has spawned a crowd of imitators. The chapter list for the episode flags the same terrain, from Rogan and Shane Gillis to Tony Hinchcliffe and what the conversation calls the "Rogansphere."

The stakes, as Handler frames them, are not just about entertainment. A lot of young people, she notes, now get their news and opinions from stand-up. She admits the mechanism is not especially healthy. "We're all addicted to this nonsense which kind of, you know, is shrinking our brains," she says. Her conclusion is dry and a little grim: "So why not listen to comedians telling you what to do? You know, we're dumber than ever as a country."

Who is the audience for the podcast comics?

Handler's most pointed claim concerns who these shows are built for. The podcast comics, she argues, are speaking to a particular listener, and she names him directly.

"They've become really popular because I guess they're all speaking to the same audience, which is disaffected men who are pissed at women or pissed at everyone really. Kind of like we need our power back, like people are taking stuff from us. That's the vibe I get when I hear those guys talking, which is kind of like a lack of respect, a lack of empathy."
— Chelsea Handler, on Soul Boom with Rainn Wilson (roughly the 2:00–3:00 mark)

It is a sharp diagnosis, and it reframes the whole political comedy boom as a question of audience and grievance rather than purely of talent. The provocation is not that these comics are funny or unfunny. It is that a shared resentment has become a business model, and that the people feeding it are not necessarily the ones who will tell you what is true.

Handler sets this against a countercurrent she sees just as clearly: there are more women doing stand-up than ever before, and she calls that "awesome."

Are women reshaping the stand-up stage?

Her most concrete evidence is a night at the Improv. She recounts hosting a show there and, in her telling, finding it "nicer not to have any male comics around." She is careful to add that there are great male comics, and "a lot of them aren't" the kind of room she is describing. The audience came up to her afterward, she says, to comment on how good the vibe was.

The detail that matters most is how she thinks such a lineup should be presented. She recalls being booked as one of the "pretty funny women," and argues that the label is itself the problem. "It's like, don't we don't have to say that," she says. "We just we don't have to say anything. Just book a lineup with all women." Her point is that an all-women bill should be a normal bill, not a themed event that needs an explanation.

She also raises a concern about the Improv itself. The opening room where comics once hung out, drank, and ate before going on has lost the energy it used to have. It "kind of saddens me," she says, because "that was a vibe." Her stated plan is to spend more time there and help bring that feeling back. It is a small, specific, almost nostalgic thread, and it shows how she thinks about the health of comedy: as a culture of rooms, not only as a set of viral clips.

Does cancel culture make comedy sharper or just angrier?

This is the center of the conversation, and Handler's answer is more contrarian than either side of the cancel culture argument usually expects. She does not reject the idea of limits. She embraces them, and argues they make comics better.

"I like when people say these are the rules that you... these are the four walls that you can play within, and these are the people that you don't... that don't want to be made fun of anymore. This is disrespectful... We're not using language like that anymore. I like those parameters. I think that's actually makes you more clever as an artist. You have to work within four walls."
— Chelsea Handler, on Soul Boom with Rainn Wilson (around 6:50)

What she describes is a craft argument. A constraint is a tool, the way a fixed form is a tool for a poet. The four walls, in her account, are not censorship so much as a set of problems that a clever comic has to solve. She keeps a clear line between that and the pressure of audiences who do not want to be hurt. "I'm there to make people laugh and be joyful," she says.

She also describes what came next, and this is where her reading gets sharper. The men who had been the focus of the backlash, she suggests, did not like being told the rules had changed. The response was a counter-movement she calls a reverberation: "We're going to say everything and we're going to get away with murder." As she puts it, the people who were supposedly cancelled were not really cancelled at all. Her example is Louis C.K., whom she says has since performed at the Hollywood Bowl and released a new special. Her argument is that the backlash to cancel culture became its own kind of permission slip, and that the tension between those two forces, rather than either one alone, is what defines the current moment.

Do comedians have a social responsibility?

The conversation then turns to the question that gives the episode its moral weight: whether comics owe their audiences anything beyond a good set. Handler is candid that she is not immune to the problem. She describes herself as another person who likes to give political opinions, and admits she does not always get them right.

"I like to make sure I'm fact-checking before I talk about it," she says, "but I sometimes I get it wrong." The honesty of that admission is part of the point. A comic with a political platform will make mistakes in public, and the fair response is to correct them rather than pretend they never happened.

The chapter structure shows the conversation working through this terrain in a sequence that will be useful to anyone watching the full episode: the difference between punching down and using a platform for good, a detour into how Handler views John Mulaney and Anthony Jeselnik, and the broader question of whether comedians have a social responsibility at all. The episode does not hand down a single verdict on that last question. Its strength is in showing how a working comic reasons through it.

Can joy survive when the world feels broken?

The back half of the conversation widens into things that do not fit neatly into media critique. The chapter list points to a turn toward choosing joy when the world feels broken, to why Handler still does stand-up, and to finding laughter in the middle of grief. Wilson's own framing from the opening of the show makes the ambition explicit: the Soul Boom podcast, he says, is a place to "dig into the human experience" and to talk about "a spiritual revolution," with guests who think about "life, meaning, and idiocy."

That framing is what gives the political material its shape. If the first half asks what comedy is doing to the public square, the second asks what comedy can still do for the person telling the joke and the person hearing it. The question of whether comics should be political is less interesting, in this telling, than the question of whether they are still making room for joy when the news is grim.

Where to go from here

The clearest way into this conversation is to watch the full episode with the chapter markers in hand, starting with the opening question and the discussion of podcast culture, then moving to the cancel culture segment around the six-minute mark, which is the most argued-over part. Pay attention to how Handler separates constraint from cruelty, and to where she admits she gets things wrong. Both moves are more useful than any single opinion she offers.

If you want to keep the conversation going with friends or in a group, Soul Boom offers a discussion guide at soulboom.com/discussionguide. And if the idea of comedy as a shared room rather than a feed appeals to you, Handler's own account of the Improv is a good starting point for thinking about what a live audience can do that a podcast cannot.

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Transcript

[0:00] What the is going on in the world of

[0:02] comedy right now? Why are comedians

[0:05] front page news like every single day?

[0:09] What they say, what they think, what

[0:10] they joke about. There's podcasters and

[0:14] there's comedians and they're political

[0:16] commentating often times through all of

[0:19] them.

[0:20] >> They're everywhere and they're news

[0:21] drivers. They've become really popular

[0:23] because I guess they're all speaking to

[0:25] the same audience, which is disaffected

[0:28] men who are pissed at women or pissed at

[0:30] everyone really. I think comics always

[0:32] have have a lot of influence whether

[0:34] that's good or bad.

[0:35] >> More influence now than ever before.

[0:38] >> More political now than ever before.

[0:40] >> A lot of young people kind of get their

[0:42] news and their opinions from standups.

[0:45] >> We're all addicted to this nonsense

[0:47] which kind of, you know, is shrinking

[0:49] our brains. So why not listen to

[0:51] comedians telling you what to do? But

[0:53] we're dumber than ever as a country.

[0:55] >> As a comedian at the cutting edge of

[0:57] this, how do we fix our country? How do

[0:59] we move forward?

[1:00] >> Oh god.

[1:04] >> Hey there, it's me, Rain Wilson, and I

[1:06] want to dig into the human experience. I

[1:08] want to have conversations about [music]

[1:10] a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep

[1:12] with our favorite thinkers, friends, and

[1:14] entertainers about life, meaning, and

[1:17] idiocy. Welcome to the [music] Soul Boom

[1:20] podcast.

[1:26] A really quick thanks to our sponsors,

[1:28] Growth Therapy, Quint, Cowboy Colostrum,

[1:30] and Fetszer. Links and promo codes on

[1:33] screen and in the description. Enjoy the

[1:35] show. This episode was made possible

[1:37] with support from the Wennet and

[1:38] Caterfresh Foundation. To continue this

[1:40] conversation with your family and

[1:42] friends, download Soulboom's discussion

[1:43] guide at soulboom.com/discussion.

[1:47] Here's my question for you. What is

[1:50] going on in the world of comedy right

[1:51] now? And I and I really mean this in the

[1:54] most sincere way. Like what the [ __ ] is

[1:56] going on? Like why are comedians front

[1:59] page news like every single day? What

[2:02] they say, what they think, what they

[2:04] joke about, what they don't joke about.

[2:06] Different kind of pods of comedians

[2:08] going at each other. There's podcasters.

[2:12] >> Yes.

[2:12] >> And comedy standup. And there's standup

[2:15] specials and there's social media.

[2:19] >> Yes.

[2:19] >> And and they're acting and they're

[2:22] political commentating oftentimes

[2:25] through all of them. The world of

[2:27] comedy. I'm not in the world of comedy.

[2:28] I'm just an actor. I was on one show.

[2:31] Booby boohoo. [clears throat] And here

[2:34] we are. But seriously, what is going on?

[2:37] >> Well, I mean, that's a great way to

[2:39] frame it. They're everywhere and they're

[2:40] news drivers. And because I guess

[2:43] because podcasting blew up in the way

[2:45] that it has and in that like you know

[2:47] Joe Rogan type culture that they've

[2:49] created in Austin with all those other

[2:51] guys that have kind of sprouted from Joe

[2:54] Rogan. Um there's a lot of them and

[2:56] they've become really popular because I

[2:58] guess they're all speaking to the same

[3:00] audience which is kind of like you know

[3:02] disaffected

[3:03] men who are pissed at women for or

[3:06] pissed at everyone really kind of like

[3:08] we need our power back like people are

[3:10] taking stuff from us. That's the vibe I

[3:12] get when I hear those guys talking,

[3:14] which is kind of like a lack of respect,

[3:16] a lack of empathy.

[3:18] >> And and then there's a whole other

[3:20] movement happening. Like, first of all,

[3:22] there are more women doing standup than

[3:23] ever before, which is awesome. That's

[3:25] awesome.

[3:25] >> I just hosted uh a show at the improv

[3:28] and I decided

[3:29] >> why are we It's been nicer not to have

[3:31] any male comics around. You know, there

[3:33] are some great male comics obviously,

[3:35] but a lot of them aren't. And so, it was

[3:38] such a nice vibe. And everyone came up

[3:40] to me after the show and they're like,

[3:41] "Wow, what what a nice vi I'm on tour,

[3:43] so I don't get to be in town a lot." But

[3:45] when I am in town, I'm like, you know,

[3:47] the improv is a place I came up and I

[3:49] want to like that place needs a little

[3:51] bit of a revitalization. It's a little

[3:53] bit depressed. You know, there's the the

[3:55] shows are full, but there remember I I

[3:57] know you've been to the improv times,

[4:00] but it's been a while.

[4:00] >> That opening room where you walk in kind

[4:02] of the ante room and everyone would hang

[4:04] out and drink and eat and blah blah

[4:06] blah. that's not happening in the way

[4:07] that it used to happen and it kind of

[4:09] saddens me because that was a vibe. And

[4:12] so while comedy is hot and people are

[4:14] out and about like that that needs a

[4:17] little revitalization. So I'm spending a

[4:18] lot of time with the improv because I

[4:19] want to bring the vibes back. And having

[4:22] all female shows without calling it an

[4:24] all female show is more advantageous

[4:27] than saying because I remember coming up

[4:28] and being like pretty funny women. It's

[4:30] like don't we don't have to say that.

[4:32] >> We just we don't have to say anything.

[4:34] Just book a line up with all women.

[4:35] vagina yucks.

[4:36] >> Yeah. Or penis list. And

[4:38] >> penis list is pretty good.

[4:40] >> Yeah. That's euphonious actually.

[4:41] >> So to get circle back to what your

[4:43] question was, which is what's happening

[4:45] in comedy. I think comics like they

[4:47] always have have a lot of influence, you

[4:49] know, if and whether that's good or bad,

[4:52] it's true because people like comedians.

[4:56] They like

[4:57] >> more influence now than ever before.

[4:59] >> Yeah. I mean, more political now than

[5:02] ever before. A lot of young people kind

[5:04] of get their news and their opinions

[5:06] from standups,

[5:08] >> right?

[5:08] >> But but literally they get news facts

[5:10] like, "Oh, I heard so and so talking

[5:12] about this issue and I heard so and so

[5:15] giving this opinion about that issue and

[5:18] taking that on."

[5:19] >> But that's the world we live in right

[5:20] now anyway. You see something on your

[5:22] Instagram feed and you take that as a

[5:23] news story. I certainly do it, you know.

[5:26] I mean, I'm smarter than that. I haven't

[5:27] read like an Atlantic article in a in a

[5:30] while because you can summarize

[5:32] everything. You read a headline, you

[5:33] read three paragraphs and you're like,

[5:34] "Oh." And our attention, you know,

[5:37] deficit disorder, ADHD or ADD, what? We

[5:40] all [ __ ] have it. We're all addicted

[5:42] to this nonsense, which kind of, you

[5:44] know, is shrinking our brains. And so,

[5:46] why not listen to comedians telling you

[5:48] what to do? You know, we're dumber than

[5:50] ever as a country. We've gotten really

[5:52] stupid. and for a host of reasons, but

[5:55] social media being one of the primary

[5:57] reasons.

[5:57] >> Mhm. So, as a comedian at the cutting

[6:00] edge of this, what do we do? Give it

[6:03] give us your opinions. How do how do we

[6:05] fix our country? How do we move forward?

[6:06] >> Oh, god. How do we heal?

[6:08] >> I don't know how we heal all because,

[6:09] you know, I'm another person that likes

[6:11] to give out my political opinions, you

[6:12] know? So, I can't say don't do it. I

[6:14] like to make sure I'm factchecking [ __ ]

[6:16] before I talk about it, but I sometimes

[6:18] I get it wrong and you know, and then

[6:19] you're like, "Oh [ __ ] what did you I

[6:21] wasn't smart enough about that or I

[6:23] wasn't I didn't do enough research about

[6:24] that. I think what happened was listen

[6:26] there was this whole cancel culture

[6:28] where people didn't really get cancelled

[6:30] but everybody felt like they were being

[6:31] told that there were parameters. I like

[6:34] that. I like when people say these are

[6:36] the rules that you these are the four

[6:38] walls that you can play within and these

[6:40] are the people that you don't that don't

[6:42] want to be made fun of anymore. This is

[6:44] disrespectful. This is you know not

[6:47] appropriate. We're not using language

[6:48] like that anymore. I like those

[6:51] parameters. I think that's actually

[6:53] makes you more clever as an artist. You

[6:55] have to work within four walls. I don't

[6:56] want to offend people. I don't want to

[6:58] hurt people's feelings. I'm there to

[6:59] make people laugh and be joyful. So,

[7:02] there was a big, you know, men didn't

[7:04] like that obviously because they were

[7:07] the focus of attention about, you know,

[7:10] treating people badly and saying things

[7:12] and they were bitching. You can't say

[7:13] this, you can't say anything anymore. So

[7:15] then there was like a whole

[7:16] reverberation on that movement which is

[7:18] like we're going to say everything and

[7:20] we're going to get away with murder and

[7:22] everyone who was cancelled had was not

[7:24] cancelled. Louis CK just performed at

[7:26] the Hollywood Bowl, you know, he just

[7:28] came out with a special. Um he

[7:30] masturbated in front of multiple people.

[7:32] So there's no cancel culture. And now

[7:35] it's kind of like I want to draw the

[7:38] parallel between this and like the Me

[7:41] Too movement. Like the Me Too movement

[7:43] happened and guess what happened after

[7:45] that? Like Roie Wade was overturned. It

[7:47] was like women were like we're going to

[7:49] tell on you and men were like oh no you

[7:50] don't. And I feel like it's analogous

[7:53] the two things. Men are more brazen and

[7:56] they can they feel more latitude to say

[7:58] whatever the hell they want to say. And

[8:01] now there's a second wave of this kind

[8:03] of cancel culture happening. So I just

[8:06] think society we've lost the plot. You

[8:08] know I know you probably feel that way.

[8:10] I definitely feel that way. What is the

[8:12] answer? I have no [ __ ] idea what the

[8:14] answer is. I'm trying to just be like a

[8:16] solid A+ human being. You know what I

[8:18] mean? And double down on

[8:19] >> which is hard enough.

[8:20] >> Which is Well, no. In the face of this,

[8:22] I think that's the antidote is to be

[8:24] like, I'm not you're not going to

[8:26] >> make me angry and in in a way that's uh

[8:29] not constructive.

[8:32] >> You're going to embolden me to be nicer,

[8:34] to be kinder, to double down on all of

[8:37] that in the face of this darkness that

[8:39] we're living in in this moment. It's

[8:41] [clears throat] It's pretty ugly. So,

[8:42] I'm just like getting happier by the

[8:44] minute, you know, just to like that's my

[8:46] medicine and that's what I'm putting

[8:48] out.

[8:49] >> Yeah. There's parts of woke one that I

[8:51] do miss where it's kind of like racism

[8:54] is real.

[8:55] >> It really does exist. Yeah.

[8:57] >> And it creates lots of income inequality

[9:01] and

[9:02] >> people are pissed about it and it deeply

[9:04] affects millions of American lives. And

[9:07] that's just a fact. and roll it back all

[9:10] you want in the Florida history books.

[9:12] That's not going to change that reality.

[9:14] So, I miss that kind of reality check of

[9:16] woke one. I do feel like people were

[9:18] cancelled. I remember reading this

[9:20] article about this woman. I don't know

[9:22] if you remember the story. This woman

[9:23] got on an airplane and she was flying to

[9:26] like South Africa and she's like, I'm

[9:28] flying over Africa. I hope I don't get

[9:30] AIDS. And then she logged off and it

[9:34] caused such a Twitter storm by the time

[9:36] she landed she had been fired, canceled,

[9:38] blah blah blah blah. And she apparently

[9:41] to her and her friends was trying to

[9:43] make a joke about racism

[9:46] saying she was trying to make a joke.

[9:48] She wasn't saying like oh like she she

[9:51] was about people that think that way. Do

[9:53] you know what I mean? And

[9:55] >> but it was a bad joke and poorly because

[9:58] that's what Twitter is. I mean give me a

[9:59] break. So there were kind of like

[10:02] reverberations from it. There was there

[10:04] was kind of a a squad with a lot of uh a

[10:07] lot of uh torches uh along the way. But

[10:09] I think you're right. I think you have

[10:11] to look at history of like these giant

[10:13] swings back and forth.

[10:15] >> Yeah. Like we had that and then we have

[10:16] Trump. We had Obama and Obama led to

[10:19] Trump. So many angry angry white men and

[10:22] racist people. Their reaction to having

[10:25] a black president is what led us down

[10:27] this road. So, like it is a longer lens.

[10:29] Like you look at, you know, this moment

[10:31] we're in is so ugly and just so uh

[10:34] dehumanizing.

[10:35] >> Yeah.

[10:36] >> Uh for so many people, you know, but

[10:39] it's back to the comics. You know, my

[10:41] issue with a lot of these guys is

[10:43] they're so busy defending themselves and

[10:45] the defending the words they use or the

[10:47] actions they take or oh, it's a joke.

[10:49] It's a joke. You can't say anything. You

[10:50] can't say anything. They're not taking

[10:52] into account all of what you just said.

[10:54] All of the people that are so

[10:56] disaffected by racism, including them,

[10:59] like they're affected and impacted by

[11:01] racist and racist beliefs and racist,

[11:03] they don't think they're a part of it

[11:05] because they have friends or they put

[11:06] black people up like this. I had an

[11:09] issue with some comic and he's like, I

[11:10] put trans people on stage all the time.

[11:12] I'm like, that that's great. You're not

[11:14] giving them a safe place to perform in.

[11:16] You know, that's not enough to just say,

[11:18] I know someone or I have a friend. Like

[11:21] that is the lamest argument you could

[11:23] possibly make. So it's like more white

[11:26] men standing up and actually talking

[11:28] about what the [ __ ] is going on and

[11:30] taking aside on behalf of women's

[11:32] rights, on behalf of trans LGBTQ

[11:35] communities, on behalf of any minority

[11:38] is what we're lacking.

[11:40] >> Or how about making a stand on anything?

[11:42] Like if you have a microphone that's

[11:44] that big, if you have a microphone that

[11:46] is so big that you're affecting tens or

[11:49] hundreds of millions of young people,

[11:51] especially young men, like to spend that

[11:55] time kind of taking shots at lowest

[11:57] common denominator, punching down

[12:00] >> or or just musing on like what kind of

[12:03] bear you'd want to wrestle. It's like

[12:05] it's not

[12:07] >> like that's how you're going to use your

[12:08] time. Not that you need to like be like,

[12:10] "Yeah, I'll I'll turn into Greta Dunberg

[12:12] or something like that, but like can

[12:15] there be some like some causes that are

[12:17] meaningful to you, whatever they are,

[12:20] >> uh, including the ones that you named.

[12:22] >> Um, and you know, use that as a as a as

[12:25] a force for good. This is where I think

[12:26] comedy's gotten a little off whack is

[12:29] there are very few comedians, Josh

[12:30] Johnson's one of them, who kind of uses

[12:32] their their microphone and their wit to

[12:35] kind of help make the world a better

[12:36] place and lead people there

[12:39] >> through both sides spplitting comedy and

[12:42] joy and serious conversation

[12:44] >> and humanity.

[12:45] >> Yeah.

[12:45] >> Like there there Yeah. Like you know,

[12:47] you sit around with those guys and they

[12:49] just want to talk about farting and

[12:50] burping and [ __ ] and eating [ __ ] and

[12:52] you're like, are you guys serious? A

[12:54] this is there's no there's no there's

[12:57] there you're not clever. There's no

[12:58] jokes. You're just being it's so mid.

[13:01] >> Yeah.

[13:02] >> Like male comics can be so mid. There's

[13:05] some really talented comics, but like

[13:07] you know there's John Molinis, there's

[13:09] uh Anthony Jesseleneck, that's a guy who

[13:11] writes jokes, you know, whether you like

[13:14] them or not, these are real people that

[13:16] actually aren't participating in that

[13:19] kind of gross culture. There's a a

[13:21] definite specific group of guys that are

[13:23] participating in this gross culture and

[13:25] want to take no responsibility for it.

[13:28] >> And it's depressing. Even the way they

[13:30] talk about women, it's like you guys are

[13:31] so gross and it's so antiquated. Like

[13:34] get the iPhone update. Get up to speed.

[13:36] You know what I mean? They need the

[13:38] [ __ ] iPhone update. Not on their

[13:39] phones, in their brains.

[13:41] >> Wasn't the guy who was the guy, the New

[13:42] Jersey guy. The who who

[13:44] >> Andrew Dice Clay.

[13:45] >> Yeah. What? Andrew Dice Clay did it

[13:47] already. You know what I mean? We don't

[13:48] need to re revisit and dice clay.

[13:51] >> It's just so they get rewarded for such

[13:53] mid behavior like their musings are

[13:56] important enough. It's like no, I'd

[13:58] rather have you have a strong underlying

[14:01] message of like human kindness,

[14:04] goodness, humanity or a [ __ ] joke.

[14:07] Right. A joke.

[14:08] >> Yeah. Do you think comedians have any

[14:10] kind of social responsibility or should

[14:12] they just be [ __ ] funny?

[14:14] >> I mean that's really up to each person

[14:16] individually. I do feel a sense of

[14:17] social responsibility. I like to use my

[14:19] platform to make sure people are aware

[14:21] of certain things that are going on. And

[14:23] I know that, you know, a lot of people

[14:24] have an issue with that. So, I try to be

[14:26] very discerning about when I do

[14:28] contribute because otherwise it's just

[14:30] noise. You know what I mean? Like, if

[14:32] you're constantly screaming and yelling,

[14:34] no one could ever hear you. So, it's

[14:36] I've learned that over time, that lesson

[14:38] about when to chime in and what to say

[14:40] and not and and how to say it, not to be

[14:43] screaming and not to be whining and not

[14:45] to be yelling, to be calm. Um, and you

[14:49] get your point across a lot, you know,

[14:50] more effectively.

[14:52] >> But [clears throat] I guess I don't want

[14:53] to say men will be men.

[14:56] >> There's there's a lot of like people

[14:58] worth mentioning that are good good

[14:59] people out there, but there's just not

[15:01] enough activism on behalf of white guys

[15:03] happening. And that's the situation. It

[15:06] feels like the death cough of white

[15:08] patriarchy right now,

[15:09] >> you know, like men holding on so tightly

[15:11] to power. They're going to lose their

[15:12] grip. Like they're going to go away. All

[15:15] these people at some point. They're not

[15:16] around forever. Trump's not going to

[15:18] live forever. All these other idiots and

[15:20] tech guys aren't going to live forever

[15:22] even though they're trying to or or they

[15:24] will in their bunkers. And I hope they

[15:26] have a great time.

[15:28] The holidays are here, folks, which

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[17:30] Soul Boom. It's the best way to support

[17:31] the show. I read a really interesting

[17:33] article once uh that was talking about

[17:36] how all of the roots of what's going on

[17:39] right now in the comedy world and the

[17:41] political world online especially had

[17:44] its origins around 2010 2012 on either

[17:49] 8chan and 4chan and a little bit Reddit

[17:52] or um uh oh [ __ ] I'm having a senior

[17:57] moment what's the name of the thing cart

[18:00] you listening

[18:01] >> what

[18:01] >> were you post picture pretty pictures

[18:04] but before Instagram

[18:05] >> Facebook oh uh Flickr

[18:08] >> no it was like

[18:10] >> yeah Tumblr that's it

[18:11] >> oh

[18:11] >> so you had all them and then you also

[18:14] had this whole Tumblr world where like a

[18:17] young girls are posting their you know

[18:21] things and they'll put themselves like

[18:23] in a headdress and then people on the

[18:25] headdress will be like hey that's

[18:27] cultural appropriation you can't do that

[18:29] and there was a lot of like really hyper

[18:31] sensitivity that was pretty extreme left

[18:34] in the Tumblr world. And in 4chan, 8chan

[18:36] was kind of like, we're going to use the

[18:38] nword as much as we want. we're going to

[18:40] we're going to live to offend and that's

[18:42] where we're going to get our kind of and

[18:44] then all of a sudden those two worlds

[18:46] kind of converged and connected on

[18:48] Twitter and on Instagram and in other

[18:50] places and and these two kind of petri

[18:53] dishes that had both been one had been

[18:55] extremely sensitive with lots of purity

[18:58] tests about liberalism and one had just

[19:01] been like just balls out flamethrower

[19:05] offensive gross racist and then they met

[19:08] and this is the this is the storm that

[19:10] we have.

[19:11] >> Yeah. It's like when you're so far right

[19:13] or so far left, those two parties end up

[19:15] meeting too.

[19:16] >> But I think the problem now and we're on

[19:19] the verge of the midterms right now and

[19:20] and it looks like the midterms are going

[19:22] to swing back to the political left. And

[19:24] what I always talk about is like, okay,

[19:25] great. That's great. And then what

[19:28] happens? Then we've got a deadlocked,

[19:30] you know, presidency in Congress and

[19:32] then that and then then there's going to

[19:34] be someone else elected and then in two

[19:35] years and four years it's going to swing

[19:37] this way and it's going to swing that

[19:38] way and it's going to swing this way.

[19:39] Like how can we have a conversation that

[19:41] is kind of above the swinging back and

[19:43] forth? Is it possible to have a

[19:45] conversation that kind of elevates

[19:49] kind of hey where are we folks? Do we

[19:51] really want to wait every two to four

[19:53] years to kind of have a slightly less

[19:56] corrupt candidate and then a slightly

[19:57] more corrupt candidate and just kind of

[19:59] just riding this pendulum?

[20:02] >> I just think so many people don't have

[20:03] time to have these conversations, you

[20:05] know? That's what's so sad about all of

[20:07] it. It's like people are working two or

[20:09] three jobs. Like the last thing they

[20:10] want to do at at the end of the day is

[20:11] sit down and [ __ ] deal with the

[20:13] problems that our country's created. You

[20:15] know, people are so scared of like the

[20:17] DSA party and it's like, well, look

[20:18] where capitalism got us. this is good

[20:21] that we have an oligarchy or

[20:22] plutoaucracy or however you want to

[20:24] frame this. This is a disaster. We have

[20:26] five men who are so hard up for power

[20:29] because nobody ever gave them a [ __ ]

[20:31] Like we're dealing with the it's just so

[20:33] basic. Yeah. You know, like we should

[20:35] look at places like Scandinavia, you

[20:37] know, and and look at people who are

[20:39] happy and like getting along well and

[20:41] not having protests in their streets.

[20:42] But I I don't you know it's a massive

[20:46] macro issue that we're you know

[20:49] unfortunately we have to get different

[20:51] leaders into positions of power and and

[20:54] this what's happening in America is I

[20:57] mean it's a shondaanda it's so bad for

[20:59] the world it's so bad for everybody and

[21:02] I mean I think that there will be I am a

[21:05] very hopeful person I really think

[21:08] there's going to be a reckoning after

[21:09] Trump and with these Republicans who

[21:11] have aided him in all of this everything

[21:14] he's done by plundering our government

[21:16] by plundering the taxpayers monies by by

[21:18] everything he's done to us our global

[21:20] standing I mean I think there is going

[21:22] to be some sort of reckoning where we're

[21:24] going to have to change a just even the

[21:27] money in politics like let let's let's

[21:30] make that a goal like to overturn

[21:32] Citizens United put somebody in the

[21:34] administration or who is going to bring

[21:36] that case back to the Supreme Court and

[21:38] overturn it $3 trillion for an election

[21:41] is what we're going to end up spending

[21:42] on this election.

[21:43] >> Oh my god.

[21:44] >> Something I think one trillion or I

[21:46] don't know, maybe it's whatever.

[21:48] >> It's an ungodly.

[21:50] >> We could be giving kids health care.

[21:52] Every single child could be covered in

[21:53] healthcare and you we're paying for why

[21:56] don't we have publicly funded elections?

[21:57] And this is my point is like if we're

[21:59] able to rise above this, I love the word

[22:02] reckoning because I think reckoning is

[22:04] not just like, oh, let's let's have at

[22:07] the corrupt fat cats, but it's kind of a

[22:09] national reckoning of like, guys, what

[22:11] are we doing?

[22:13] >> Like, why can't public service servants

[22:16] be serving the public? And let's elect

[22:18] public servants and let's elevate the

[22:21] conversation and because the writing's

[22:24] on the wall. I mean, with with our

[22:25] deficit, with climate change, with AI,

[22:28] um, and the state of the economy, it's

[22:30] it's hard for me to stay hopeful. And

[22:33] you have said to, uh, in quotes that

[22:36] you're you're not going to allow the

[22:38] chaos of contemporary America to affect

[22:41] your joy and you're going to still bring

[22:43] joy to your work. Can you talk a little

[22:46] bit about what keeps that motivated? I

[22:50] just know that I have a big audience and

[22:53] a big platform and I I can inject people

[22:56] with optimism and hopefulness and the

[22:59] other the opposite is useless. To be

[23:02] hopeless and to be, you know, to be sit

[23:04] around and be

[23:05] >> cynical or pessimistic.

[23:07] >> Yeah. And to just be kind of like

[23:08] rudderless or listless or desolatory and

[23:11] just be like nothing is ever going to

[23:13] change. I'm not gonna like that's the

[23:15] opposite. We need act. That's what they

[23:17] want. They want you to lie down and then

[23:19] they can run you over. So if you want to

[23:22] take on that attitude, then you're not

[23:23] for me. Like I am I want first of all I

[23:27] am an optimistic person by nature. I

[23:30] didn't tap into that until I was a

[23:31] little bit older because I had a lot of

[23:33] anger issues when I was younger. But

[23:34] then I realized my natural like my

[23:36] natural predisposition is actual it's

[23:39] humor and like you know it's funny and

[23:41] happy and like yeah let's get after it.

[23:44] Let's have a good time. Especially if

[23:45] we're all going to [ __ ] blow up soon.

[23:47] I'd like to have a good time up until

[23:49] then. [laughter] You know, I'm not going

[23:50] to be scared, scared, scared, scared,

[23:52] and then it ends. Like, what's the point

[23:54] of that, you know? My nervous system

[23:56] isn't going to so isn't that's not good.

[23:59] So, so what? So, what was it for? You

[24:01] know, at least spread joy and sunshine.

[24:03] And I love being a comedian now more

[24:05] than I ever have because it's like it's

[24:08] a job. It's a job to make people forget

[24:10] and give them a reprieve. I'm actually

[24:12] doing a job now. Whereas it was pretty

[24:15] much wouldn't be classified as that for

[24:17] a long time in my opinion.

[24:18] >> What was it before? It

[24:19] >> was just like easy. Like my life was

[24:21] easy because I I'm a comedian. I can do

[24:23] what I want. I can perform when I want.

[24:25] I can tour when I want. And now it's

[24:27] like no, I'm out here making sure people

[24:30] are leaving in a much better mood than

[24:32] when they came in. Yeah.

[24:33] >> And I don't talk about politics in my

[24:34] standup at all because it's not it's

[24:36] enough.

[24:37] >> And tell me this. Why do you still do

[24:38] standup? And I and I really mean that in

[24:40] the in the best possible way. Like you

[24:42] fly to like a casino in Omaha or a big

[24:46] theater in Minneapolis or whatever and

[24:49] you know you've got what a thousand two

[24:52] 3,000 people there and you do your I

[24:54] mean you make a nice chunk of change but

[24:56] you don't have to do that. I'm just I'm

[24:58] just curious.

[24:59] >> I like connectivity with people. I like

[25:01] connecting with people. I like I go out

[25:03] on stage after my shows.

[25:04] >> But all those flights, all those hotels.

[25:06] >> Yeah, that's I'm used to that. That's

[25:07] been I took six years off of standup.

[25:09] This is six. I took six years [laughter]

[25:12] I took six years off of standup and I

[25:15] was great because I realized what it was

[25:17] really what what it meant to me and also

[25:20] how to do it better and how to

[25:21] recalibrate myself. So I came back like

[25:24] a fine-tuned instrument if I do say so

[25:27] myself. Now I know what I'm doing and I

[25:29] know what I'm there for and I don't like

[25:32] and I'm and I don't do anything I don't

[25:34] want to do, you know. So that is like a

[25:36] huge luxury and yeah, you're right. I

[25:38] don't have to do it, but I want to do it

[25:41] because it is a great way to change

[25:43] someone's vibe and like that's what I'm

[25:46] about in the in this period of my life

[25:48] is just changing the vibe.

[25:50] >> That's beautiful. So you see your comedy

[25:51] as a service.

[25:52] >> I do. I do. Like bringing people

[25:55] together. Like I started this

[25:56] matchmaking service on my Instagram a

[25:59] few months ago. I was just I came home

[26:00] from this party and all these women were

[26:02] bitching about how terrible it is out

[26:04] there to meet a real guy and guys don't

[26:06] follow through with anything because of

[26:07] all these dating apps and there's such a

[26:09] swipe culture. So, I started this

[26:12] Instagram matchmaking. I was like, I'm

[26:13] going to start setting people up. I'm

[26:14] like, DM me if you're looking for

[26:16] someone. Send me a bio. Send me some

[26:18] pictures. Open up your Instagram account

[26:20] and I'll connect people. And I've

[26:22] connected six couples have been together

[26:24] for over six months. three lesbian

[26:27] couples, two straight couples, and one

[26:29] gay couple, male gay couple, and they've

[26:32] and two of them are moving in together

[26:34] already. Obviously, the lesbian couple

[26:35] because, you know, they can't help

[26:36] themselves. But, I mean, to me, that's

[26:39] providing another service.

[26:40] >> A Subaru,

[26:41] >> they probably already have a Subaru, but

[26:44] if they moved in that fast, I'm sure

[26:45] they already have a Subaru.

[26:47] Um, for me that's just another thing I

[26:49] can do because I have such a big

[26:51] platform and there's so many people

[26:52] following that I can connect people and

[26:54] like that's another nice thing like that

[26:56] I feel good about like okay you're

[26:58] bringing joy to people, you're bringing

[26:59] connectivity. So kind of just using

[27:02] whatever you've got to do the right

[27:04] thing is a good move right now.

[27:06] [laughter] You know, my dad passed away

[27:08] about six years ago, and I've told this

[27:09] story before, but I'm going to tell it

[27:10] again because I think about it all the

[27:12] time. And my dad and I fought a lot, a

[27:15] lot of problems, a lot of issues, a lot

[27:17] of them deep-seated.

[27:19] But here's one thing my dad did better

[27:22] than almost anyone I know. Every room he

[27:25] went into, he tried to make a better

[27:27] place. He would give a compliment. He

[27:29] would tell a joke. He would ask someone

[27:31] about their day. He would like introduce

[27:34] two people and start a conversation with

[27:36] them. He was always trying to better the

[27:40] situation. He didn't have any money. He

[27:42] didn't have any influence. Um, right.

[27:44] >> Other than when he would wear Dwight

[27:46] Shroo t-shirts around and people be

[27:48] like, "Oh, Dwight Shroo". He goes,

[27:49] "That's my son."

[27:51] >> But I love that because you don't need

[27:54] the kind of platform that you have

[27:56] >> to kind of make that kind of difference.

[27:58] Right.

[27:59] >> It's it's literally a mindset of like

[28:02] I'm going to go into my life in a

[28:04] proactive way and I'm going to better

[28:06] all of these different my church group,

[28:09] my school group, my kids soccer club, my

[28:12] you know my my D&D game, my my my

[28:16] business, whatever it is. I was at this

[28:18] like kind of it's a was a retreat sort

[28:21] of but it was for people who were

[28:23] grieving and and it was obviously

[28:26] already the tone of that is kind of low

[28:28] right you know you're grieving that's a

[28:30] low frequency or and you're just kind of

[28:32] everyone's sad and I went in support of

[28:34] a person so I went as a friend and I and

[28:38] there was a small it was like 15 people

[28:40] and I just went the first day and I

[28:42] realized like you know everyone is

[28:43] grieving together and you got to get

[28:44] that out that's important grief is

[28:45] important to get out and exhaust from

[28:47] your body, but there's also room for

[28:50] like, you know, so the second day I was

[28:52] like, "Okay, I'm going to since I'm part

[28:53] of this, like I'm just going to see if I

[28:55] could pick the vibe up one person at a

[28:56] time because you can still grieve, but

[28:58] in a group there's room for laugh, like

[29:00] let's create room space for laughter and

[29:02] space for being silly and like, you

[29:04] know, making comments that are like

[29:06] inappropriate, you know what I mean?

[29:08] Just lift it up a little bit, have a

[29:09] little levity."

[29:10] >> And um because I find in my own

[29:13] experience with grief, laughter is

[29:15] important. And so each day, like the

[29:18] first day I was like, I, you know, I

[29:19] befriended these two women and I was

[29:21] like kind of got into it with them and

[29:23] then their mood changed. And then the

[29:24] next day I was like, "All right, I'm

[29:25] going to go over to this group and and

[29:27] see if I can like light them up a little

[29:28] bit." And before you knew it, that's

[29:31] exactly what happened. Like you're

[29:32] shifting the energy from one person to

[29:34] another, like a soul boom. You're

[29:37] shifting it and you're and you're giving

[29:38] it to someone and then they're taking it

[29:40] and they're spreading it. And so it

[29:42] doesn't matter which person that's

[29:43] coming from. It just matters that you're

[29:45] constantly, not constantly, it's

[29:47] impossible to do it constantly, but to

[29:49] be consciously aware of your power as a

[29:51] human being. It doesn't just belong to

[29:53] one of us, it belongs to all of us.

[29:55] >> It's energy. So, we have the opportunity

[29:58] to tap into like our fierce great energy

[30:01] and spread that around and like that's a

[30:04] very powerful thing to do.

[30:05] >> I love that fierce great energy. Is

[30:08] there I'm going to get really hokey

[30:09] right now. Is there is there God in

[30:11] that?

[30:12] >> There's a source. that fierce great

[30:14] energy you're talking about.

[30:15] >> There's something I don't know if it's

[30:16] God or if it's if it's people, you know,

[30:19] like I think about the people who have

[30:22] died in my life and I just always think

[30:24] of them as my people up there. Yeah.

[30:26] >> Like taking care of things and when I

[30:28] when I get quiet, I've learned to like

[30:30] ask for guidance from those people. I

[30:33] don't know how many there are. If it's

[30:34] just I know

[30:36] >> I did the same thing this morning. I did

[30:38] the exact same thing.

[30:39] >> Oh my god. I did it this morning. Wow. I

[30:41] wonder if we were doing it at the same

[30:42] time.

[30:44] >> I went to this place called Hoffman.

[30:45] Have you heard of Hoffman? Yes.

[30:47] >> And they they do that. It's it's a great

[30:48] just therapy, like standard good therapy

[30:51] stuff, processing parental stuff and

[30:53] child stuff and, you know, just really

[30:56] straight up psychology. And it has this

[30:58] little compartment that is about spirit,

[31:02] spirit guides, and being open to what

[31:04] spirit tells you and leads you. And you

[31:06] can make that God or you can make it

[31:07] Jesus or angels or or whatever or people

[31:10] that have passed that uh are there for

[31:13] us to draw on. Um and it sounds

[31:16] incredibly like a Canyon. But

[31:19] >> we don't even have to say that anymore

[31:21] because I used to go and frame that. You

[31:23] know, when I'd say it, I'd be like, "All

[31:24] right, go with me here." But [ __ ] that.

[31:26] It's true. If you believe it, if you

[31:28] want to believe in that, life is better.

[31:30] So, I'm going to choose to believe that

[31:31] I can still talk to my mother. I feel

[31:33] her presence around me a lot. My

[31:35] brother's dead. I feel his presence

[31:36] around me. Every time I walk out on

[31:38] stage, I look up and I see them like

[31:40] these I visualize them like these two

[31:42] little dancing nymphs, you know,

[31:44] [laughter] like kind of in the ceiling

[31:45] of whatever theater I'm in. And and I

[31:48] >> I love that unapologetic nature that you

[31:51] have and that you bring to everything

[31:52] that you do because like you said right

[31:54] now, like why aren't we apologizing for

[31:56] that?

[31:56] >> Yeah. It's like we have to we have to

[31:58] contextualize, well, I'm from Tanga,

[32:00] Kenya, or I've lived in LA. I did that a

[32:02] lot, but I'm not doing that anymore

[32:03] because we don't know anything. So,

[32:06] choose to figure out what you believe

[32:07] in. You know what I mean? I'm going to

[32:09] believe it.

[32:10] >> That's helpful to me.

[32:11] >> Yeah.

[32:12] >> And it's quite nice to think that your

[32:14] the loved ones are accessible to you.

[32:16] And I've seen too much evidence that

[32:18] they are.

[32:19] >> You had a lot of death early on. Your

[32:21] brother died when you were you were six

[32:23] or nine. Okay. And

[32:25] >> and your mom dealt for 15 years with

[32:28] breast cancer or something like that. So

[32:31] sickness, death,

[32:32] >> abandonment,

[32:33] >> this has been an underbelly of a lot of

[32:37] what you dealt with. A lot of it

[32:40] >> when you were a kid, but a lot of it

[32:42] when you were at the height of your

[32:43] fame.

[32:44] >> Yeah.

[32:44] >> So

[32:44] >> it creeps up on you.

[32:45] >> Can you talk a little bit about that?

[32:47] >> Yeah.

[32:47] >> This episode is brought to you by

[32:48] Fetzer. You know, there's this tendency

[32:50] in modern life to believe that every

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[34:56] >> It it was a good tool for me for many

[34:59] many years. The anger that I had like

[35:01] the suppressed anger even though it it

[35:04] started to kind of come out. It was it

[35:06] was I I didn't want to I never really

[35:08] dealt with my brother. But so it when I

[35:10] was young I didn't deal with it because

[35:12] my parents nobody knew how to deal with

[35:13] that. they weren't going to therapy. But

[35:15] when I got,

[35:17] you know, I didn't like the subject that

[35:19] my brother died. That didn't I didn't

[35:21] like the number that our family was. We

[35:23] were six and then it was like caved in.

[35:26] Do you know what I mean? Like the way I

[35:27] thought about in my head, I was like,

[35:29] "Something's off. Our family isn't

[35:30] robust. We're missing something. We're

[35:32] missing something." And I couldn't face

[35:34] that. So instead, I just distracted and

[35:37] became more of who I was probably going

[35:39] to be in the first place, but with a lot

[35:42] more drive because I was like, "Let's

[35:44] get to the next part of my life cuz this

[35:46] [ __ ] sucks." You know? I wanted to

[35:48] graduate. I

[35:49] >> So that's interesting because I was

[35:51] listening to your audio book or your new

[35:52] book, which are just filled with

[35:54] hysterical, fantastical stories of

[35:57] growing up and they're just [ __ ]

[35:59] hysterical. But I can totally see that

[36:01] now. You're talking about cuz you tell a

[36:03] lot of stories like your hard lemonade

[36:05] stand and your 10-year-old Chelsea who

[36:08] was selling booze fil lemonade and

[36:12] making thousands of dollars so she could

[36:13] fly first class as kind of a response to

[36:16] the grief of the loss of your brother to

[36:17] kind of like I'm going to be myself but

[36:19] times a thousand.

[36:20] >> Yeah. Like you're not going to tell me

[36:22] what to do. You're not going to tell me

[36:23] to talk about my brother because for a

[36:24] while they were like oh she's

[36:26] something's wrong. She won't talk about

[36:27] him. I'm like no I won't talk about him.

[36:28] I'm f in fact I'm busy starting my own

[36:30] vodka lemonade business like everything

[36:33] was a kind of distraction but it be I

[36:35] became more entrenched in the who I was

[36:38] and then it worked for me it made me

[36:40] really successful and then it came to a

[36:43] point where it just was it wasn't my

[36:47] anger got calibrated to a point

[36:50] >> when was this

[36:51] >> this was after I had left Chelsea lately

[36:53] and I started working at Netflix and I

[36:56] did a year of documentaries for them and

[36:58] I did my talk show and Trump was elected

[37:00] so I had something to be angry about so

[37:03] I could hang my anger on that and

[37:06] pretend that that was what I was really

[37:08] so mad about for the last 20 years of my

[37:12] life. You know what I mean? So it and

[37:14] until I met with a psychiatrist Dan

[37:17] Seagull who worked with me and explained

[37:18] all that to me, I didn't know that.

[37:20] >> I'm trying to get him on this show.

[37:22] >> Oh, he'll come on. He's got a new book

[37:23] coming out.

[37:24] >> I know. I We just have to arrange it.

[37:26] >> Oh yeah. He's the best.

[37:27] >> He's incredible. I've read a bunch of

[37:28] his books.

[37:29] >> He's written a bunch of books, but he

[37:30] has a brand new book out that he just

[37:32] sent me because he talks about our

[37:33] relationship in it a little bit. Um

[37:35] because I've spoken about him in my

[37:37] books. Um but he was, you know, he just

[37:39] unlocked

[37:40] >> you saw him as a therapist.

[37:41] >> Yeah. For like two years and and he

[37:44] unlocked my whole my whole, you know,

[37:47] and that was unpleasant. That's not fun

[37:49] at all. And it's not fun to be around a

[37:52] person that's going through that because

[37:53] I was having an identity crisis on top

[37:55] of it because I'm like, well, if I'm not

[37:56] this person, who the [ __ ] am I? And when

[37:59] you say not this person, not the angry,

[38:01] >> if I'm not this anger, this person who

[38:03] I've always identified with who's going

[38:05] to stand up for something and but you

[38:07] know, like more sanctimonious than real

[38:10] because I did stand up for things, but I

[38:12] was still just always trying to show

[38:15] everybody the right way to do things or

[38:18] I just had this energy that was very un

[38:21] uh it was unsustainable. And so he

[38:23] really kind of ripped me open and was

[38:26] like here like he let me

[38:29] >> do my thing blah blah blah blah blah

[38:30] blah blah pretending like I didn't have

[38:32] any major issues. I just wanted to

[38:34] sharpen some skills. I'm like I remember

[38:37] my first session I was like I just need

[38:40] to work on my patience. I was like

[38:41] people are really stupid and I'm really

[38:43] impatient and and he's like well tell me

[38:46] about your childhood. And I was like

[38:48] that's not relevant to this

[38:49] conversation. [laughter]

[38:50] And he was like what? And then, you

[38:53] know, weeks went by and eventually he he

[38:56] unwrapped me and I was like, "Oh, wow."

[38:59] I mean, he's very good at his job. And

[39:01] he's still my therapist. I don't really

[39:02] go very often, but when I do have an

[39:04] issue or I need, you know, someone to

[39:06] advise me on tricky, you know, something

[39:09] in a relationship or a circumstance, I

[39:12] always go to him and I always end up

[39:13] apologizing whether it's been my fault

[39:15] or not because that's one of the great

[39:17] things he's taught me is like if you

[39:19] know that you're right, then you should

[39:21] have no problem apologizing, which is

[39:24] kind of true and hard to do when you're

[39:26] not used to apologizing.

[39:27] >> Very hard to do.

[39:28] >> Yeah.

[39:28] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[39:29] >> Yeah. I was thinking a lot about as I

[39:33] was getting ready for this conversation

[39:34] about uh Chelsea lately and how great

[39:38] that show was and I really always felt

[39:41] like you never got the respect that you

[39:43] deserved for creating that show and

[39:47] being like a woman at the forefront of

[39:49] comedy talk,

[39:51] >> you know, at a totally male-dominated

[39:54] >> field. And uh how do you look back on

[39:58] that experience?

[40:00] >> I fondly uh I I loved that experience

[40:04] and when I was done with it, I was done

[40:06] with it, you know, and that's very me. I

[40:08] don't have time to like dotle if I've

[40:10] lost interest with regard to almost

[40:12] anything. But people have to understand

[40:14] at the time, you know, there was

[40:15] Letterman and there was Leno and there

[40:17] and even at late night, you know,

[40:19] there's there's John Stewart and there's

[40:21] this and that and then in the middle of

[40:22] that is a brash, ballsy blonde woman

[40:28] who's not daytime talk,

[40:31] >> funny as [ __ ] and at the cutting edge

[40:33] of comedy, you know, right smack in the

[40:35] middle of this kind of male-dominated

[40:37] world. And you weren't there to sell

[40:38] blenders or make brownies. Nothing wrong

[40:40] with selling blenders and making

[40:41] brownies, but you were you were there

[40:43] for comedy, but also to bring people

[40:45] together. It was it was amazing. It was

[40:47] remarkable.

[40:48] >> Yeah, thank you. It was it was really

[40:50] Especially looking back on it, it's more

[40:52] impactful now for me than it was at the

[40:53] time because when you're in it, you're

[40:55] not really thinking about the impact

[40:56] you're having. But then to see all the

[40:57] people from that show blow up and become

[40:59] stars and and to see how uh what an

[41:03] egalitarian

[41:05] that show was like it was it was it was

[41:07] a display of e egalitarianism. It was

[41:10] everyone you know whether you were

[41:12] trans, gay, white, black, Mexican, like

[41:14] you were welcome and the the you know

[41:16] the more off-white you were the better

[41:18] you know like let's bring everyone

[41:20] together. And so I loved that show and

[41:22] when I look back at it now I see the

[41:23] impact more than I did then. But in

[41:26] terms of respect, I mean, going around

[41:28] and trying to get respect isn't really

[41:30] the way to get it. So, that wasn't at

[41:33] top of mind. I've experienced a lot of

[41:36] disrespect from people in similar

[41:39] positions that I was in or that were

[41:42] competitors to me. I've experienced a

[41:44] lot more disrespect since that show from

[41:46] men in those positions than I had than I

[41:49] did during that time, which is

[41:50] interesting to me.

[41:51] >> Wow.

[41:52] >> So, there's a definite

[41:53] >> You're saying after the show?

[41:54] >> Yeah. In terms of me as a person, me as

[41:57] a performer, I have a lot of stories of

[41:59] which I won't share because it's

[42:01] pointless, but just the men's reactions

[42:04] to the success of that is very

[42:07] surprising and very telling. And a lot

[42:10] of these guys and and it's again, it's

[42:12] back to the situation we were talking

[42:13] about. A lot of these guys think they're

[42:14] with it and that they support women and

[42:16] that they're champions of that. But yet

[42:20] when it comes to me there has been a lot

[42:22] of you know I' I've seen a lot of things

[42:24] that go I've seen things they don't know

[42:26] that I've seen I've heard conversations

[42:27] they don't know that I've heard I'm sure

[42:29] you could have said that about anybody

[42:30] you know but yeah there's a definite

[42:32] lack of respect among like my

[42:34] compatriots regarding that it's like

[42:36] >> but I think if you're looking at

[42:38] television over the last like let's say

[42:41] 40 years and you're looking at comedy

[42:44] and television and you're charting it

[42:46] and you're looking at like oh here's

[42:48] Roseanne and and here's where Ellen sits

[42:50] and here's the sitcoms and here's the

[42:53] the great rise of the sitcoms and the

[42:55] decline in the sitcoms and here's

[42:57] standup and blah blah blah blah blah

[42:58] like Chelsea lately sits right in the

[43:01] middle of that and is an important

[43:03] marker at looking at comedy and it's not

[43:07] really given that credence that's my

[43:08] point

[43:10] >> and I feel like in the cultural

[43:11] conversation that should be given more

[43:14] >> yeah yeah you're probably right yeah

[43:16] thank you

[43:17] >> yeah What are three things women should

[43:19] stop apologizing for?

[43:22] [sighs]

[43:24] >> Being emotional

[43:27] >> always whenever someone I'm sorry, I'm

[43:28] sorry or interrupting I'm sorry. I'm

[43:30] sorry. Women are saying I'm sorry about

[43:32] 50,000 times a day. And um and and

[43:36] taking up space uh you know, women like

[43:40] have every right to be here. And what

[43:42] we're learning is that we're a lot

[43:44] smarter than most men. So,

[43:47] >> I would agree with that.

[43:48] >> So, it's like go with that knowledge.

[43:50] Like, you know, we're being fed a whole

[43:52] bunch of nonsense about ourselves. So,

[43:54] it's up to you to go in and find out how

[43:56] [ __ ] smart you are. I didn't know how

[43:58] smart I was for a long time. And then I

[44:00] was like, "Wow,

[44:02] >> you I I found out I was smarter than I

[44:03] thought I was. Not with regard to

[44:06] learning Spanish, but with regard to

[44:07] learning a lot of things.

[44:09] >> I have an intense curiosity about

[44:10] things. I read books all the time. I'm

[44:12] constantly looking for ways to challenge

[44:15] myself. Like we all are. Um and the more

[44:19] open you become and the less contracted

[44:21] you are about your belief system, the

[44:24] more gifts come your way. You know, the

[44:26] more magnetism that you employ or

[44:28] create.

[44:29] >> My wife uh who I think you met way way

[44:33] back in the day

[44:34] >> uh holiday close. Okay. I knew it was

[44:37] along those lines.

[44:38] >> Yeah, it was. Yeah.

[44:38] >> You taught me about Bahigh. You were the

[44:40] first person who taught me what Bahigh

[44:42] religion was.

[44:43] >> Yeah.

[44:43] >> Yeah.

[44:43] >> Yeah.

[44:44] >> Yeah. Okay. Your wife Holiday,

[44:46] >> she just got her shaman's license.

[44:48] >> Oh, really?

[44:49] >> Yeah.

[44:50] >> Oh, for

[44:51] >> for She studied I mean that's what we

[44:54] joke about shaman's license, but she's

[44:56] studying like indigenous healing,

[44:58] intuitive healing [clears throat]

[45:00] that's very much about like

[45:02] >> feminine kind of spiritual intuition.

[45:07] Uh,

[45:08] >> I have this book. I just ritual. I'm

[45:10] gonna send her this book as soon. It's

[45:11] called Season of the Witch, and I'm

[45:12] going to get it to you later today. I'm

[45:14] gonna get you. She needs to read it.

[45:15] It's all about that. It's a brand new

[45:17] book. It just came out. I just had the

[45:18] author on my podcast. Um, but I [ __ ]

[45:21] love that. We all need to lean into our

[45:23] witchiness. We Yeah, we've been told

[45:25] witches witchiness is bad. That it's

[45:27] bad, you know, because we have an

[45:29] intuition.

[45:30] >> Her intuition is off the charts. I mean,

[45:32] it's crazy.

[45:33] >> Like what? Give me an example. Uh, I'll

[45:36] start working with someone on a project

[45:38] and she'll be like, "No, not that

[45:41] person." She will just know and I'll be

[45:42] like, "You're crazy. Look, they do this

[45:44] and this and this." And sure enough,

[45:47] >> three years later, there's a lawsuit and

[45:50] >> I didn't I just completely missed it.

[45:52] And she picks up on some deep inner

[45:55] vibes.

[45:56] >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's a that's a skill

[45:57] set that you have to really hone and

[46:00] focus on, you know, like

[46:02] >> so she sounds like someone who's worked

[46:03] at it. Yeah, I could see you doing that.

[46:05] I could see you getting your shaman's

[46:07] license.

[46:07] >> Yeah, I like helping people. I like

[46:09] giving people LSD and different types of

[46:12] drugs. Also, when I find something

[46:13] helpful, [laughter]

[46:14] I always share it. Like,

[46:15] >> wait. Okay. Wait, what? How did we get

[46:17] there? Well, just because I was thinking

[46:19] about I love giving people.

[46:20] >> I was thinking about shaman and being a

[46:22] medicine woman and intuition. Like, I

[46:25] have all this. Are you talking about

[46:26] psychedelic like experiences and

[46:29] >> I get lots of good drugs sent to me and

[46:31] I and I have a house in Canada for

[46:33] winter and uh they have all these

[46:35] >> That's your drug house?

[46:36] >> Yeah, that's my drug house for sure.

[46:37] They have all all these things.

[46:38] >> In Spain, it's your Spanish language

[46:39] house. Canada's [laughter] drugs.

[46:42] >> Exactly.

[46:43] >> Mandville's for I guess fires.

[46:45] >> Yeah. And uh we but I have a lot of

[46:49] access to really good medicine up there

[46:51] because because so many people and first

[46:54] of all it's legal in Canada and a lot of

[46:55] my therapist friends do journeys with

[46:58] the medicine with LSD. It's all micro

[47:00] dose. You know it's not like you're

[47:01] going on a trip trip or you can if you

[47:03] want but that's not what I but I love to

[47:05] give out LSD. I love to give out

[47:08] mushrooms. I love to give out edibles.

[47:10] Anything that's just going to make you

[47:11] >> Are we going to get arrested for this

[47:13] conversation?

[47:13] >> No. I've been talking about this

[47:14] publicly for years and I'm still walking

[47:16] in my car at the end of this interview.

[47:18] >> Yeah.

[47:18] >> So, and you're just a laying witness to

[47:20] it. But, but that's a form of medicine.

[47:23] >> Gotcha.

[47:23] >> You know, I feel like it's a form of

[47:25] medicine anyway.

[47:26] >> I got into a lot of trouble with drugs

[47:27] and alcohol in my 20s. I just don't feel

[47:30] like I can do that stuff.

[47:31] >> But you're talking about bad drugs,

[47:33] right? Like coke and stuff.

[47:35] >> Coke is plant medicine, babe.

[47:37] >> Yeah. But cocaine

[47:38] >> cut up from a leaf comes grows on a

[47:40] tree.

[47:41] >> Yeah. But something it's very addictive.

[47:44] >> The sacred,

[47:45] >> right?

[47:46] >> Yeah. I've known people addicted to I

[47:48] know I knew a kid who blew out his mind

[47:50] >> on LSD.

[47:50] >> I micro doing LSD. Really f got really

[47:55] and Paul Simon in his autobiography

[47:57] talks about getting addicted to Iwasa

[48:00] that he was secretly he just started

[48:03] doing more and more and he was like

[48:04] secretly using it like all the time. And

[48:07] so I mean I just think that if you're if

[48:09] you're wired for addiction, you just got

[48:10] to be super super careful.

[48:11] >> Yeah, I guess that's maybe not. I guess

[48:13] that's true. That's definitely true. I

[48:14] don't want to like, you know, I don't

[48:15] want to pretend that that that's not an

[48:17] issue for people. Addiction is a serious

[48:18] issue for people. It's not an issue of

[48:20] mine. I don't have a problem with that

[48:22] kind of stuff thankfully. But I do find

[48:25] that a lot of people just need a little

[48:27] bit of medicine to be a better person

[48:29] and to calm down. Thanks, Mary Poppins.

[48:31] >> Quiet down those thoughts, the negative

[48:33] thoughts.

[48:34] >> Okay.

[48:35] >> That stuff. And it just kind of makes

[48:37] you see things in a more beautiful way.

[48:40] >> Can you do that without medicine?

[48:42] >> I suppose you could, but that would take

[48:43] a really long time.

[48:44] >> It's meditation. Yeah. And it does take

[48:46] a long time.

[48:46] >> It takes a long time to accumulate. Then

[48:48] enough. You wanted therapy in six weeks.

[48:50] And you want medication.

[48:52] >> I want sometimes I see like I saw this

[48:54] guy skiing in Whistler once that he the

[48:55] way he was talking to his kids. He had

[48:57] no patience. He wasn't happy being

[48:58] there. I saw his wife and I was like and

[49:01] she was so exhausted by her husband and

[49:03] his negativity.

[49:04] >> She [clears throat] slipped her a tab of

[49:04] LSD. No, I slipped him. I said, "Hey,

[49:06] sir, you should put this under your

[49:08] tongue." And I swear in like an hour,

[49:10] you're going to be in a much better

[49:11] mood. And he was. And I ran.

[49:14] >> He took He took Yeah. She said, "Please

[49:16] do something." He's like, "I'm I'm at my

[49:18] wit's end." I go, "This is medicine." I

[49:19] go, "You're just going to be in a good

[49:20] mood. You're not going to lose the plot.

[49:22] It's just going to make you more

[49:23] patient.

[49:23] >> I want to slow this down. You're skiing

[49:25] at Whistler. You see a grumpy mean dad."

[49:29] >> You come up to him. He's like, "Oh,

[49:30] Chelsea Handler." Whoa. Yeah.

[49:32] >> I'm going to need you to take a tab of

[49:34] >> LSD. That's exact

[49:38] >> yellow window or whatever. And he's down

[49:41] and his light he's like he's skiing on

[49:43] dandelions and and unicorns.

[49:46] >> He just was in a much better mood and he

[49:48] was able to appreciate the beauty of the

[49:50] mountains and the trees. Yeah. Instead

[49:52] of focusing on the minutiae and the kids

[49:54] and just letting it go. I mean, do you

[49:56] know how many people could tell you I

[49:58] mean, there are hundreds there are

[49:59] thousands of people in this world that

[50:00] could tell you a story about me giving

[50:02] them LSD or MDMA or

[50:04] >> There's thousands of people you've given

[50:06] LSD to my

[50:08] >> So, when people come up to you at the

[50:11] airport

[50:11] >> and they do they come up be like, "Give

[50:13] me give me your best stuff."

[50:14] >> Well, I don't usually travel with it,

[50:16] but I mean

[50:17] >> that's tough.

[50:18] >> Yeah. It's hard to travel with,

[50:20] [laughter]

[50:20] >> especially when I talk so publicly about

[50:22] it. You know what I mean?

[50:23] >> Hysterical. Have you ever done Iawaska?

[50:27] >> I don't do that stuff. I don't. Yeah, I

[50:29] don't do that stuff. Is

[50:29] >> she is holiday training to do Iaska with

[50:32] people or

[50:33] >> she is not necessarily, but I think she

[50:36] she might be open to something like

[50:38] that.

[50:38] >> I don't know. When my wife I think my

[50:41] wife might be open to some kind of like

[50:43] medicine, plant medicine journey, you

[50:46] know.

[50:46] >> She's just into being a shaman.

[50:48] >> Yeah. She's into healing people and

[50:50] intuiting

[50:51] >> what's going on in their with their

[50:53] spirit lives and their past lives and

[50:57] who's speaking to them and through them

[50:59] and what's going on in their body. I I

[51:01] don't even know. She hasn't done it to

[51:02] me yet. I keep asking her to align my

[51:04] chakras and she hasn't.

[51:06] >> That must be a really nice benefit. I

[51:08] mean to your marriage.

[51:09] >> Well, yeah. But

[51:11] >> you have all these I mean to have

[51:12] someone like that right next door to

[51:14] you. I mean literally, you know, not

[51:16] next door to you. I mean, next to you,

[51:19] that's a huge advantage for you.

[51:21] >> I admire my wife so much, and I'm not

[51:23] saying this for brownie points. She

[51:25] started studying Tai Chi about 10 or 12

[51:27] years ago. And then they were doing a

[51:30] Tai Chi trip to Wuang Mountain in

[51:32] central China, which is where it began.

[51:35] Tai Chi and Kung Fu began on this

[51:38] mountain with these in these

[51:39] monasteries. And she went there and it's

[51:42] in the middle of nowhere, China. And

[51:45] it's not like fancy airport China. It's

[51:47] like the middle of nowhere, China. And

[51:48] you have to walk everywhere up thousands

[51:50] of steps. And they're getting up at 5:00

[51:52] a.m. for the hour and a half meditation.

[51:54] And then they're doing Tai Chi all day.

[51:56] And then they're walking up thousands of

[51:58] steps to various monasteries and stuff

[52:00] like that. And every week she's out

[52:02] there just

[52:04] >> doing her doing her thing. It's

[52:06] absolutely It's absolutely nuts.

[52:09] >> Yeah, I like that.

[52:10] >> I'm watching the NFL. I'm looking out

[52:11] the window and she's [laughter] like

[52:14] communing with the geese. Hey everybody,

[52:17] make sure to click subscribe. It's right

[52:19] over here somewhere. Please, pretty

[52:20] please. It would help us at Soul Boom so

[52:22] much. Click subscribe.

[52:25] You walk this line between kind of

[52:27] fearless humor

[52:29] and you don't get cruel. But some people

[52:33] that blur that line between fearless and

[52:36] cruel. Do you know what I mean? They

[52:37] they cross a line and it and it starts

[52:39] to fearless becomes kind of mean.

[52:42] >> How do you how do you how do you walk

[52:44] that line?

[52:45] Well, I mean, I think that's easy

[52:47] because cruelty is an outward act

[52:50] whereas fearless is an inward act. Like

[52:53] fearlessness is me

[52:56] telling me being like I'm very open,

[52:59] right? Open-minded. I love drugs. I love

[53:01] experimentation. I love travel. I love

[53:03] different kinds of people. Like if you

[53:04] say, "We're going on an adventure

[53:06] tomorrow. I'm not telling you anything

[53:07] about it." Da da da. I'll be like, "I'm

[53:09] down. I'll go." But and that's kind of

[53:13] being fearless. That's a sense of being

[53:14] fearless. Like I have a freedom or devi

[53:17] like I like adventure. I like newness. I

[53:20] like I want to hang out with all the

[53:23] people. You know what I mean? Not just

[53:24] the people that are like me. I want to

[53:26] hang out with people I don't know that

[53:28] I've never met that I can't even

[53:29] communicate with in their own language.

[53:30] I I want to go down that road. So I

[53:33] think the fearlessness is just an

[53:34] inherent part of my personality that

[53:36] people think I you know I I hear that

[53:39] quite often. I don't feel fearless. I

[53:41] feel free. I feel very free as a person,

[53:43] as a woman especially. And like I want

[53:46] every woman to feel that, you know, I

[53:47] don't feel like I have to do anything I

[53:49] don't want to do or I don't feel

[53:50] tethered to anything. I don't feel guilt

[53:53] about stuff.

[53:54] >> But I I I'm afraid to speak out about

[53:56] some things that I believe in and maybe

[53:59] take on some people in a in a direct

[54:01] way. You don't seem afraid about that at

[54:03] all.

[54:03] >> Well, back because I've been that's

[54:05] experience. I mean, I've been dealing

[54:07] with blowback in my career since I

[54:08] started talking. M

[54:10] >> men, you know, a lot of men don't like

[54:12] me and I've heard a lot about it,

[54:14] >> so I'm used to it and I it like it

[54:18] doesn't

[54:18] >> it's that inherent hypocrisy that a man

[54:20] tells a dick joke, they're cool. And a

[54:23] woman tells a dick joke and she's a

[54:25] [ __ ]

[54:25] >> She's a [ __ ] And then if she

[54:27] [clears throat] talks about telling a

[54:28] dick joke and being being called a

[54:30] [ __ ] then she's whining.

[54:32] >> It's like, okay, okay, whatever. But

[54:35] those are people those those aren't

[54:36] those people aren't my problem. You

[54:38] know, cruelty is going after somebody

[54:42] who can't stand back up for themselves.

[54:45] Cruelty [clears throat] is making fun of

[54:47] people unnecessarily. Like

[54:49] >> the whole idea of becoming standup comic

[54:51] is self-examination and making fun of

[54:54] yourself and your observations. Those

[54:56] observations don't have to be cruel.

[54:58] They can be a reflection of your

[55:00] narrow-mindedness. You know, your your

[55:02] the cruelty is an outward act that you

[55:05] just don't have to you don't have to be

[55:07] cruel. It's so easy not to be cruel.

[55:10] >> So, here's something that freaked me out

[55:12] about you. Your dad was Jewish. You were

[55:14] raised pretty much Jewish, used car

[55:17] salesman. His wife, your mom, was

[55:20] Mormon.

[55:21] >> And then her grandfather was a Nazi.

[55:26] >> He served in the Yes. German army. So

[55:29] then

[55:30] >> if it walks like a dog. But here's what

[55:32] I want to say, and I will I only I would

[55:34] only defend him because I do think my

[55:36] grandmother was Nazi, but she was

[55:39] [laughter] she was a little bit more

[55:40] hateful. Although my whole family would

[55:41] be like, "How could you say such a

[55:43] thing?" Um, my grandfather, you know, a

[55:46] lot of those men, he was a P, so he

[55:48] served in the war for like, you know, a

[55:50] little bit and then he was taken uh

[55:52] taken and back to America actually. And

[55:54] I did this show, who do you think you

[55:56] are? And they were like, you know, there

[55:57] were the red shirts and they're taking

[55:58] us through all this history. and like

[56:00] your grandfather is a f was a Nazi and d

[56:03] and and when they explain it to you, you

[56:07] get a better understanding of what was

[56:09] happening in terms of like conscription

[56:11] in Germany. You know, if you were a

[56:12] German man, you were going to be in the

[56:14] war whether you wanted to or not. No

[56:16] matter what you believe, your family was

[56:18] going to murder you or your family would

[56:19] be murdered if you resisted. There were

[56:21] going to be, you know, so I get it. I

[56:23] get it. Do I think my father was like at

[56:26] the forefront of my grandfather at the

[56:27] forefront of the Nazi movement? No. like

[56:29] not at all. He was a gentle, loving man

[56:31] who said he who who who told us that he

[56:34] tried very specifically to get captured

[56:36] in in the war because they didn't want

[56:38] to serve. He said his whole like uh I

[56:41] don't know what it's called,

[56:41] >> platoon or troop like half of them were

[56:43] like what are we doing here? This is

[56:45] awful. You know, he said it wasn't like

[56:47] very he said it wasn't uncommon to not

[56:49] be in, you know, wanting to serve. But

[56:52] yeah, so my mom and dad aloped in New

[56:55] Jersey and my mom had met my dad at a

[56:57] ski store and he came in asking for size

[57:01] 12 socks. He didn't have size 12 feet,

[57:04] so he was obviously just trying to turn

[57:06] on someone, which is exactly something

[57:09] my father would do. And then

[57:12] >> so he was kind of making a dick joke by

[57:14] buying socks.

[57:15] >> Yeah. Like I need size 12 socks because

[57:17] I'm packing some heat

[57:18] >> and and then my mom

[57:20] >> and she fell for it. Yeah. Well, she

[57:22] came back the next year. She went back

[57:23] to Germany. She was here for the summer

[57:24] working. And then she came back from

[57:27] Germany a year later to visit him. And

[57:29] we have the original ship to shore of

[57:31] him proposing to her saying, "Rita," he

[57:33] used to call her Rita, "when you land, I

[57:35] would love for us to get married." And

[57:38] yeah, and they did. And they got

[57:39] married. And then we were my mom, my dad

[57:41] was like, "Listen, if you're a Mormon,

[57:42] like keep that on the DL. And I want to

[57:45] raise my kids Jewish. My kids are going

[57:46] to Hebrew school. I was raised Jewish."

[57:48] And my mom said, "Sure." How does a

[57:50] Mormon fit in to this?

[57:52] >> There's Mormon contingencies all over

[57:53] the world. So in Germany after the war,

[57:55] lots of people came, you know, the

[57:57] Mormons came through and picked up a

[57:59] bunch of Mormon followers. They were

[58:00] like, "You want to follow this

[58:02] religion?" And they were like, "Yeah, we

[58:04] do." So I didn't find out my mom wasn't

[58:07] Jewish until I was until my brother died

[58:09] because she he had to be buried in a

[58:12] Jewish cemetery and you can't be a

[58:14] non-Jew buried in a Jewish cemetery. So

[58:16] my dad when my brother died unexpectedly

[58:19] bought a plot for four people. So he, my

[58:23] mother, and my brother and then I don't

[58:25] know who the other person was, Elijah I

[58:26] guess, to be buried next to each other.

[58:29] And my rabbi was there and my rabbi

[58:31] said, "Semir, your mother, your Rita

[58:34] can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery.

[58:35] She's not Jewish." And that was the

[58:37] first I had ever heard about my mom not

[58:39] being Jewish. We went to synagogue on

[58:41] Friday nights together. She got up and

[58:43] read Hebrew with us. Like,

[58:45] >> but did she look like a Nazi Shixa?

[58:47] >> No, she didn't look like a Nazi. My mom

[58:49] would never be a Nazi. She had nothing

[58:51] like that going on in her blood. But she

[58:52] looks like a shixa. She looked like me.

[58:54] >> Yeah.

[58:55] >> Nobody ever believes.

[58:56] >> She didn't look like a fraud line,

[58:57] though.

[58:58] >> No. No. She was sexy. [laughter]

[59:01] >> She sexy line,

[59:03] >> I guess. So, I had like a Bond villain

[59:05] kind of.

[59:06] >> Right. Right. [laughter]

[59:07] >> Yeah.

[59:07] >> Right. Um, so

[59:10] >> how was their marriage? And

[59:11] >> not great. I mean, they loved each other

[59:14] and they loved their kids. But my dad

[59:17] was pretty sexist,

[59:20] misogynist,

[59:22] controlling. He was it was his house and

[59:24] it was his rules and if he was in a bad

[59:26] mood, everyone knew about it. And and

[59:29] she was soft-spoken and very sweet and

[59:32] loving. And so if they fought, there

[59:34] would they wouldn't talk for days or

[59:35] she'd rearrange the furniture or hide

[59:37] the remote control. These were her like

[59:39] ways to get at him. And and they had six

[59:42] kids. And then my brother died. That was

[59:43] my dad just lost the plot completely. He

[59:46] was so [ __ ] angry. Wanted to blame

[59:48] and sue everyone from the park ranger to

[59:51] the person my brother traveled with when

[59:53] he died. And so that was caused.

[59:55] >> He died on a hiking accident.

[59:56] >> Yeah. In Wyoming in the Grand Tetons. So

[59:58] the death of my brother really caused a

[1:00:00] big chasm between them because my mom at

[1:00:02] least had the capacity

[1:00:04] to understand she had five other

[1:00:06] children that needed her. Like she was

[1:00:08] able to be like, "No, [clears throat]

[1:00:09] no, no. I've got to take care of these

[1:00:11] kids." Whereas my father just was like

[1:00:12] out. It was like he couldn't he would

[1:00:15] just sit there in anger and and hate and

[1:00:18] just mad at the world and everyone and a

[1:00:20] victim. That was a it was very victim

[1:00:23] mentality

[1:00:24] >> and and he never quite recovered from my

[1:00:26] brother dying.

[1:00:28] >> Do you feel like a therapy has impacted

[1:00:30] your comedy? A lot of a lot of people

[1:00:32] feel like their their neurosis is what

[1:00:35] feeds their comedy and that if they get

[1:00:36] their neurosis straightened out through

[1:00:38] therapy that that's going to negatively

[1:00:40] impact the comedy.

[1:00:41] >> It's like when fat people when fat

[1:00:42] comics lose weight, they think they're

[1:00:44] not going to be funny anymore.

[1:00:45] >> Yeah.

[1:00:45] >> Uh I think it's it's the opposite. If

[1:00:48] you give it enough time, you know, like

[1:00:50] right away I didn't do comedy during

[1:00:51] that time of going to therapy. I had the

[1:00:53] luxury of not having to work while I was

[1:00:55] doing that. I was working for Netflix

[1:00:57] and doing some stuff, but I wasn't doing

[1:00:58] standup per se. And I did I'm glad I

[1:01:02] wasn't because I didn't feel very funny

[1:01:03] during that time. It wasn't fun and it

[1:01:05] wasn't funny and it needed to like you

[1:01:08] know there's a period of going to

[1:01:09] therapy where you're gathering all this

[1:01:11] information and then there's a period

[1:01:13] post therapy where you need to like

[1:01:15] absorb the information and then you need

[1:01:18] to

[1:01:19] >> enact the information like you learn it

[1:01:23] you let it sink in and then you have to

[1:01:24] apply it. So it's like three phases. So,

[1:01:27] and I wasn't I didn't want to go to

[1:01:29] therapy for the next eight years of my

[1:01:30] life. I'm like, "Let's do this in the

[1:01:32] most efficient way possible. How long do

[1:01:35] you think this will take?" [laughter]

[1:01:36] You know, and he was like, "Well," and

[1:01:38] I'm like, "Listen, I I I thought it was

[1:01:39] going to be like, oh, I'll go for six

[1:01:40] weeks and it'll be Yeah. Yeah. like

[1:01:42] Barry's boot camp."

[1:01:43] >> Yeah.

[1:01:44] >> And it ended up being much longer than

[1:01:46] six weeks, but uh but it wasn't a fun

[1:01:48] time in my life. I would never take it

[1:01:50] back. But if you told me I had to do

[1:01:52] that again, I might not do it. even if I

[1:01:55] knew the benefits would I would get the

[1:01:57] benefits like 10 years. It was just so

[1:02:00] exhausting

[1:02:01] >> having to bear my soul, having to like

[1:02:04] get rid of all of my armor and become

[1:02:07] vulnerable and still was very hard to

[1:02:11] do.

[1:02:12] >> Do you feel like you're able to access

[1:02:14] that same vulnerability and stillness

[1:02:15] now post therapy?

[1:02:18] >> Yeah. Yeah, most of the time. I'm I'm

[1:02:21] sure there are times where my defenses

[1:02:23] go up, but I'm so well I'm so much

[1:02:25] better at recognizing my defenses than I

[1:02:27] used to be before therapy. I just have

[1:02:30] so much self-awareness where like that's

[1:02:32] what therapy is is the gift of

[1:02:34] self-awareness is someone else telling

[1:02:36] you, "Oh, they're not insulting you.

[1:02:38] They're examining you and going, well,

[1:02:40] maybe you do this because of this and

[1:02:42] maybe this is because of this and it's

[1:02:43] not what you think it is." And you're

[1:02:45] like, "Oh, okay. I trust you. You seem

[1:02:49] really smart. I'm going to listen to

[1:02:51] this person.

[1:02:52] >> And so you're kind of giving yourself

[1:02:54] away in the hopes of coming out with a

[1:02:58] better idea of who you are and who where

[1:03:00] you're going. So I look at it as a

[1:03:03] calibration. It's like a sharpening of

[1:03:05] of all the good things and kind of

[1:03:07] shedding the stuff that's not working

[1:03:09] for you.

[1:03:10] >> I I remember coming across a quote where

[1:03:12] you talked about how Victor Frankle

[1:03:14] changed how you thought about purpose.

[1:03:17] >> Was that around the same time? Do did do

[1:03:19] you remember saying anything about that?

[1:03:21] I'm just curious. What?

[1:03:21] >> It's so funny because I used to read so

[1:03:23] many books that quote Victor Frankle.

[1:03:24] Yeah. And when I quoted him, I was like,

[1:03:26] "This is good. Nobody's quoting Victor

[1:03:28] Frankle." And since then, I've read like

[1:03:29] 10 books and everybody quotes Victor

[1:03:32] Frankle.

[1:03:32] >> Yeah. There's like 20 Instagram accounts

[1:03:34] that are all Victor Frankle quotes.

[1:03:35] >> Yeah. Yeah. That he he Yeah. I mean,

[1:03:37] that guy like that book, The Man's

[1:03:39] Search for Meeting, one of his books,

[1:03:41] that was just an incredible book. I've

[1:03:43] read that a couple times. But yeah to to

[1:03:45] take yourself out of out of yourself

[1:03:48] like what are you doing here? You know

[1:03:50] what are you doing here? What are you

[1:03:52] doing? [laughter]

[1:03:53] What is your purpose? Like what are who

[1:03:55] are are you helping? Are you here for

[1:03:56] yourself only?

[1:03:57] >> And what is your purpose?

[1:03:58] >> Yeah, my purpose is to provide joy. Like

[1:04:02] I'm joyful and even if we're talking

[1:04:05] about something serious, the tempo is

[1:04:07] going to be like this. Not

[1:04:08] >> like, you know,

[1:04:10] >> woe is me. It's very anti- victim. I

[1:04:13] don't like that. I used to do that a lot

[1:04:15] when I was young. I'd be like,

[1:04:16] "Everyone's out to get me and this

[1:04:17] person doesn't want me to succeed and

[1:04:20] >> and I don't ever do that anymore. I

[1:04:22] don't care what anyone says about me

[1:04:24] publicly or privately. Like, I know and

[1:04:26] I get it and I have receipts."

[1:04:29] [laughter]

[1:04:31] >> Chelsea, it's so good seeing you. Thanks

[1:04:33] for coming on. We're so so honored that

[1:04:36] I have

[1:04:36] >> Oh my god.

[1:04:37] >> the legendary Chelsea Handler on Soul

[1:04:39] Boom.

[1:04:39] >> We've known each other for what, 25

[1:04:41] years?

[1:04:42] >> 25 years. I was just going to say 1991 I

[1:04:45] think is when we first met.

[1:04:46] >> Wow.

[1:04:47] >> Do you remember I tutored a journal

[1:04:50] entry? [laughter]

[1:04:51] >> You tutored me.

[1:04:53] >> I I gave you acting coaching ON AN

[1:04:55] AUDITION.

[1:04:56] >> YES.

[1:04:56] >> In my house.

[1:04:58] >> Oh my god.

[1:04:58] >> And you were It was for I think you got

[1:05:00] the job. It was like Miami News or

[1:05:02] something like that. Did you do a show?

[1:05:04] >> I don't remember what the job was, but I

[1:05:06] do remember you giving me acting

[1:05:09] lessons.

[1:05:10] >> Yeah.

[1:05:10] >> Wow. I forgot I had forgotten that.

[1:05:13] >> Yeah.

[1:05:14] >> And look at me now. Look at you now.

[1:05:16] Famous actress.

[1:05:16] >> You were you were you were starving. You

[1:05:18] were you were waiting tables.

[1:05:20] >> I was into

[1:05:21] >> and now look at how I've blossomed into

[1:05:23] womanhood.

[1:05:24] >> Yeah.

[1:05:25] >> I love it. Um

[1:05:26] >> are you still acting? [laughter]

[1:05:30] >> Honestly, people ask me that and it's

[1:05:33] like and it [snorts] it does hurt a

[1:05:35] little bit like are you still acting?

[1:05:37] >> No. Are you still giving acting lessons

[1:05:39] is what I was going to say. And then I

[1:05:40] couldn't resist. [laughter]

[1:05:42] >> I'm occasionally acting. You know, I'm

[1:05:46] podcasting. That's what uh

[1:05:48] >> But what about giving acting lessons?

[1:05:50] Are you still doing that?

[1:05:51] >> I don't do that anymore. Okay.

[1:05:54] >> But I've been thinking about it. I love

[1:05:55] teaching acting. I really love love love

[1:05:58] teaching acting.

[1:05:59] >> Well, I might hit you up for something

[1:06:00] because I do have a project and I do

[1:06:02] need some I have a project at Hulu that

[1:06:04] if it goes, I'm starring in it. Yeah.

[1:06:06] And I'm playing like a middle-ag. Not

[1:06:08] far a field from what's happening in

[1:06:10] real life.

[1:06:11] >> Washed up.

[1:06:13] Loser. Alcoholic. Estranged from her

[1:06:16] daughter.

[1:06:17] >> Sure.

[1:06:17] >> Billionaire husband dies and leaves her

[1:06:19] nothing but a liked by millions.

[1:06:22] >> Yes. Yes. That.

[1:06:23] >> Yeah.

[1:06:24] >> And I have to act. I mean, you know, I'm

[1:06:26] not an actress by trade.

[1:06:27] >> You're a very damn fine actress.

[1:06:29] >> Well, thank you.

[1:06:30] >> You really are. And

[1:06:31] >> but maybe I'll come to you for that and

[1:06:33] you can give me some acting lessons if

[1:06:35] you want to keep your acting lesson.

[1:06:38] >> Rides in your private jet.

[1:06:39] >> I don't have a private jet. I do not

[1:06:40] have a private jet. I would never ever

[1:06:43] have a private jet.

[1:06:44] >> One thing we ask every guest is a

[1:06:46] definition of the word soul. What do you

[1:06:48] think? What does that mean to you?

[1:06:49] >> You're okay. Well, that's to me soul is

[1:06:52] your essence. Your essence. It's like uh

[1:06:55] it's not really uh tangible. It's the

[1:06:59] energy that you bring with you and the

[1:07:02] energy that's there when you walk out of

[1:07:03] a room. So

[1:07:06] the essence of the best part of you.

[1:07:10] >> I love that.

[1:07:11] >> Yeah,

[1:07:12] >> Chelsea, it's so great to connect with

[1:07:14] you after so long. And I just am such a

[1:07:17] huge admirer of what you got going on.

[1:07:19] What's going on now?

[1:07:20] >> You could probably see me on tour.

[1:07:22] Chelsea handler.com for tickets. I have

[1:07:24] a podcast, Dear Chelsea, where I give

[1:07:26] out advice to people. Um, what else? I

[1:07:30] don't know. That's That's pretty much

[1:07:31] it. That's all you have to think about.

[1:07:33] Not too much.

[1:07:34] >> What about in the TV world?

[1:07:35] >> I've got stuff in the TV world, but I

[1:07:36] don't need to announce any of that yet.

[1:07:38] It's a little premature.

[1:07:38] >> It's all cooking. And if people want a

[1:07:40] tab of LSD from you, they go to

[1:07:41] chelsea.com/lsd.

[1:07:43] >> Yeah. Yeah. You go to the website or you

[1:07:45] go to Whistler Canada. That's where I

[1:07:47] ski [laughter] and I'll have it on me

[1:07:48] there on the slopes.

[1:07:51] Soulboom is also on Spotify video. If

[1:07:53] you've got Spotify Premium, you can

[1:07:55] enjoy it free of Spotify ads. If you

[1:07:57] don't, you'll get even less ads if you

[1:07:59] hit subscribe to Soul Boom. Also enjoy

[1:08:01] on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Pandora, or

[1:08:03] wherever else you [music] get your

[1:08:04] stupid podcasts.

Rainn Wilson
ArtistRainn Wilson

Actor and spiritual advocate best known for playing Dwight Schrute on 'The Office,' Wilson blends humor with deep exploration of meaning, purpose, and human connection through Soul…

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Perguntas frequentes

In this conversation, Chelsea Handler argues that comedians have become news drivers because podcasting blew up and created a culture of comics speaking to large audiences. She also says many young people now get their news and opinions from stand-up and social media rather than traditional sources.
Handler says these comics are speaking to disaffected men who feel they need their power back and are angry at women or at everyone. She describes the appeal as coming from a lack of respect and a lack of empathy.
Handler argues that clear parameters make comics more clever because they have to work within four walls. She distinguishes between the constraints of not wanting to hurt people and the backlash that followed, which she describes as a reverberation of men saying anything and getting away with it.
She says billing a show as an all-female lineup or calling women 'pretty funny' sets them apart in a way that is unnecessary. Her view is that a lineup of all women should simply be booked as a normal bill without a special label.
The conversation takes up this question directly, with Handler admitting she sometimes gets political facts wrong and should fact-check more carefully before speaking. The episode explores the difference between punching down and using a platform for good.
Rainn Wilson introduces the show as a place to dig into the human experience and talk about a spiritual revolution, with guests discussing life, meaning, and idiocy. The Chhandler episode extends that frame from media critique into joy and grief.

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