Transcript
[0:00] From 5 to 12, I was tied up to a pole in
[0:05] the basement hours at a time. Yeah.
[0:11] My parents thought you could beat a
[0:12] child half to death on a weekly basis to
[0:15] the point where they're unconscious in a
[0:17] bathtub before school. Because in order
[0:20] for me to live this religious life that
[0:23] I was set up to live, it meant that I
[0:25] had to be 100% invested. [music]
[0:28] And early on, I had decided I'm just not
[0:32] going to do it.
[0:32] >> Kad Williams, [screaming]
[0:34] >> you left home at 13 years old. This is
[0:36] where you slept in the city of Miami.
[0:38] You end up being a salesman and you
[0:40] became a pimp.
[0:41] >> Yes. I knocked on a door where some
[0:43] ladies of the night resided and their
[0:46] pimp had been killed. And they would
[0:48] have conversations on a nightly basis
[0:51] that I know for a [music] fact are
[0:53] responsible for me becoming a better
[0:55] man. And then your first standup comedy
[0:57] event was you lying to a bouncer to get
[0:59] in because you're 16 years old and you
[1:00] win the competition.
[1:02] >> Yes. But I don't do comedy again for
[1:04] another 5 years because I still didn't
[1:06] understand this was a job you could do.
[1:08] But it was one of the first medicines
[1:10] that I discovered. It was super
[1:13] important in me just making it
[1:14] dayto-day. And at some point I was more
[1:17] sure that this was part of my [music]
[1:20] destiny. I read that you wrote down the
[1:21] names of 300 comedians and you made the
[1:24] decision that you were going to study
[1:25] all of them
[1:25] >> because they were funnier [music] than
[1:27] me and that's what I had to fix because
[1:29] I'm in LA. I'm on comic view doing
[1:32] acting on sitcoms.
[1:33] >> Your parents, they're still alive.
[1:35] >> Yes.
[1:35] >> How do you feel about them today?
[1:37] >> Um
[1:41] before this episode starts, I have a
[1:42] small favor to ask you. 2 months ago,
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[2:00] guests and the production. Thank you and
[2:01] enjoy this episode.
[2:04] [music]
[2:06] Cat, can you take me into your your
[2:09] earliest context? If I was a fly on the
[2:11] wall in your life under the age of 10,
[2:13] what would I have seen, experienced,
[2:15] felt?
[2:16] Well, those were great years for me. I
[2:18] learned to read pretty early, like
[2:21] three. I felt like I was growing so much
[2:25] because I was reading adult stories and
[2:28] I was reading what adults were going
[2:32] through and I was trying to figure out
[2:33] how old am I going to be before I get
[2:36] this thing figured out because I
[2:38] couldn't figure out who gets to take
[2:39] adventures, who gets to be on
[2:41] adventures, who like how do you put
[2:44] yourself in these situations that I find
[2:48] all of these people in these books in
[2:50] like soldiers and captains and stole
[2:52] ways. And I love that part. I just
[2:55] wanted to try to figure out how to make
[2:58] myself one of those people.
[3:00] >> Be careful what you wish for. You wanted
[3:02] an an adventure. You certainly got an
[3:05] adventure.
[3:06] >> Right. Right. Yeah. But I I I just
[3:08] assumed that's how it worked out for the
[3:10] hero. Like five bad things had to happen
[3:12] to Cinderella before she was able to be
[3:16] the heroin. Like she had to have a
[3:19] terrible family life. They had to treat
[3:21] her bad. She was being verbally abused.
[3:23] She was given a terrible job. The step
[3:26] sisters were awful. But for some reason,
[3:30] she maintained and she um
[3:33] she kept the type of person as she was
[3:36] still until things lined up. So I
[3:40] naively thought that that's how it
[3:42] worked out for all heroes, that it was
[3:45] just bad. And then it it got greater
[3:47] later. I just held on to that. And so I
[3:51] was looking for my opportunities.
[3:54] >> It's funny cuz I have thoroughly
[3:56] researched your story and I had no idea
[4:00] how much you have been on an adventure
[4:03] to say the least. And it's funny you
[4:05] talk about Cinderella then. Maybe you
[4:07] are the Cinderella of of comedy because
[4:10] it really is a hero's journey. Your
[4:12] story
[4:12] >> as much as you can do for 5'5.
[4:15] It's
[4:17] >> Yeah. It's as much a short king story as
[4:20] anything else.
[4:21] >> And you had a strict religious
[4:22] upbringing,
[4:23] >> right?
[4:24] >> Tell me about that.
[4:25] >> We didn't celebrate uh holidays and
[4:29] birthdays and things like that. And I I
[4:32] wasn't um able to do a lot of
[4:34] extracurricular activities. All of the
[4:37] activities were Bible based, but I got a
[4:41] pass with books. And so that became my
[4:46] pressure valve for feeling
[4:49] restricted and suffocated. I could go to
[4:53] my room and get in these books and be
[4:56] somewhere completely different for 2
[5:00] hours and come out of my room feeling an
[5:04] entirely different way like I had been
[5:07] part of something a lot bigger than me.
[5:10] Were you different from your peers at
[5:12] that age? Did you feel different?
[5:14] >> I knew that my upbringing was not the
[5:17] same as my peers and I knew that there
[5:21] was a lot more leeway and freedom out
[5:24] there in the world of being a kid um
[5:26] than I was experiencing.
[5:29] Even when it was super bad, I didn't
[5:32] look at it as bad as it was. I I just
[5:34] assumed that if it was more difficult
[5:38] that just meant I was destined for
[5:42] better things. I thought
[5:45] >> And now as an adult, when you look back
[5:47] on this little guy?
[5:49] >> Mhm.
[5:50] >> Have you noticed that he was different
[5:51] in hindsight as an adult?
[5:53] >> No.
[5:53] >> No. That's probably the thing I did the
[5:57] best was I preserved
[6:01] as much of him as I could in 55 years. I
[6:07] was always cognizant of this guy and
[6:10] what he was thinking and um I've been a
[6:13] happy person my whole life.
[6:16] >> I mean, how old are you here? You're
[6:17] probably what, five to
[6:19] >> So I'm five there and seven there. How
[6:22] did it feel to see these photos?
[6:26] >> Um,
[6:27] >> I say that because you pass them back
[6:28] pretty quick.
[6:30] [laughter]
[6:31] >> Is that not normal?
[6:34] >> People don't usually pick them up and
[6:36] pass them back
[6:37] >> like playing cards.
[6:38] >> Yeah.
[6:38] >> Redal.
[6:40] >> I kind of feel sorry for him. Now I can
[6:44] look back at the pictures and see um how
[6:47] happy and carefree that he was. also
[6:51] knowing what he was going through even
[6:54] at that time behind the scenes. I'm just
[6:57] incredibly proud for the little guy that
[7:00] it worked out
[7:02] for him the way that it did.
[7:05] Yeah, cuz that's all the pictures of me.
[7:08] All the pictures of me. I'm I'm happy
[7:11] just like that,
[7:13] [laughter]
[7:14] but probably had a terrible day. You
[7:18] feel sorry for him because of what he
[7:20] was going through,
[7:20] >> right?
[7:21] >> What was he going through?
[7:23] >> There are times when being
[7:27] joyful and inquisitive and um on go 24/7
[7:33] can
[7:35] probably be more than a handful for
[7:38] young parents
[7:40] um with their first child. And you know,
[7:45] they should be able to make mistakes as
[7:47] well. But um
[7:51] >> I know there was from reading your book,
[7:52] there was abuse in the home
[7:54] [clears throat] from your parents. Is
[7:56] that what you're referring to?
[7:59] >> Uh corporal punishment wasn't really
[8:02] useful in my life. It was um
[8:05] my parents believed in spare the rod,
[8:08] spoil the child. So, um, if there were
[8:12] issues, you could just beat it out of
[8:13] them, whatever it was. That didn't
[8:16] really work for me. I I handled it, um,
[8:19] a different way. And I kind of felt like
[8:23] it was just more evidence
[8:27] that I had meaning in my life and that I
[8:31] could potentially
[8:33] turn out to do something meaningful. Or,
[8:36] what would all of this be for? Um, when
[8:39] I leave home at 13, it's it's been
[8:45] almost
[8:47] 6 years, almost half my life coming like
[8:50] I've been preparing
[8:53] from this point to 12 that if I get an
[8:57] opportunity
[8:58] to uh go on my way as an adventurer that
[9:01] that's what I'm going to do. If you're 5
[9:04] and 7 years old here, at what age did
[9:07] the the beatings start in your
[9:10] household?
[9:13] >> Just from 5 to 12.
[9:16] So that's a 7-year period.
[9:25] I've forgiven all the participants. So,
[9:29] it doesn't um make it easier to
[9:34] go back and peel scabs off um just
[9:37] because I've forgiven everybody
[9:39] involved. It's such an important part of
[9:42] my life just because we need to be put
[9:46] in difficult situations for us to be
[9:48] able to find out what we're made of and
[9:51] what we're capable of. How I
[9:56] handled that situation was one of the
[10:00] first instances of me actually being a
[10:03] man to me to myself because I had to
[10:06] make uh grown decisions a little earlier
[10:10] than most and um it's certainly not
[10:13] pleasant to discuss. I don't I don't
[10:16] enjoy discussing it but um still a
[10:20] critical
[10:22] part of the story.
[10:24] As I was reading your book in this
[10:26] chapter chapter says this is for your
[10:29] own good. Between 8 and 12 my life
[10:32] turned into a private war zone disguised
[10:35] as our basement. It started small if you
[10:38] can call it about small. At first it was
[10:40] three or four whoopings a week. Then I
[10:42] say whooping because that's what they
[10:44] called it. like it was some wholesome
[10:46] southern tradition passed down from Big
[10:47] Mama. However, the whoopings matured
[10:50] into something monstrous. The belt
[10:52] turned into an extension cord and the
[10:54] extension cord turned into a water hose.
[10:55] When that started tearing skin instead
[10:58] of teaching lessons, they switched to a
[10:59] 2x4. And they claimed it was because I
[11:02] was [sighs and gasps] hardheaded and
[11:05] knew too much.
[11:07] I say this because, you know, some
[11:09] people hear about tough parents, but
[11:11] this is a different category of
[11:14] punishment.
[11:15] >> Yeah. This is tied up to a pole in the
[11:18] basement.
[11:19] >> Your parents
[11:20] >> hours at a time. Yeah.
[11:21] >> Hours at a time.
[11:22] >> Yeah.
[11:23] >> But to their credit, I was fast and
[11:26] evasive and they tried [laughter]
[11:30] they tried it without tying me and that
[11:32] didn't work well. I was able to maneuver
[11:34] the entire house. Uh, [laughter]
[11:37] so that's where it eventually came to.
[11:40] >> Because you knew too much.
[11:42] >> Not because I knew too much, more
[11:44] because
[11:46] I said too much and I would know what
[11:52] the repercussions were going to be and
[11:56] still say it. The things that I was
[11:58] questioning them on were a lot of times
[12:01] biblical in nature. you know, you're
[12:05] trying to instill upon me this
[12:08] particular truth that we collectively
[12:12] believe in. And um
[12:16] I'm explaining to you
[12:19] I I don't believe that and it's going to
[12:21] have to be discussed because you told me
[12:25] the Bible was written by God. So I don't
[12:30] want to see any errors. I don't want to
[12:33] see any mistakes. I don't want to see a
[12:35] passage that talks about how you should
[12:38] treat your slaves because now I have a
[12:41] different conversation that I need to
[12:44] have. And um
[12:48] yeah, even at that point in my life, I
[12:51] just wanted to know what the truth was
[12:53] about things. And I thought that that
[12:55] was a safe place for it. But, you know,
[13:00] I was still willing to to take whatever
[13:03] came
[13:05] with it. Did you as a child at that age
[13:09] have any idea that that treating a child
[13:12] that way is unacceptable or did you
[13:13] think that was normal? And how has time
[13:16] changed your perception of what that
[13:17] was? And do you now classify that as
[13:18] abuse?
[13:19] >> Yeah, I I was cognizant. I I understood
[13:22] that
[13:23] the things that my peers were getting in
[13:26] trouble for, I had never done any of
[13:29] those things, like I had never committed
[13:31] any crimes. I was a virgin. I had never
[13:35] snuck out the house to go to events. I
[13:38] just knew that they didn't
[13:41] care for me as a person. And so for the
[13:44] first few years, I was just trying to
[13:47] figure out what what it was about me
[13:50] that they didn't like. Once I realized
[13:52] that it was out of my hands, then I
[13:56] privately just got defiant about it.
[13:59] Beat to your heart's content. I'm going
[14:01] to still keep talking through the
[14:03] process and I'm going to commentate this
[14:05] for myself and I'm gonna say things
[14:08] like, "How does this make you feel? you
[14:11] sure are beating your baby a lot. You
[14:13] say God loves this.
[14:15] That's uh that's me during the process
[14:19] because that's how I was able to handle
[14:21] it. But yeah, I I knew it was abuse
[14:23] then.
[14:24] >> You said you realized at at a young age
[14:26] they didn't care for you as a person,
[14:28] right?
[14:29] >> Was there any sign of love in that
[14:31] relationship with your parents
[14:34] or was it all this abuse? No, I I I felt
[14:38] like it made them better parents.
[14:41] Like I appreciated them more than I
[14:45] think I would have. Like
[14:48] because all the mothers that I saw seem
[14:51] to love their kids, you know. Um and I
[14:54] wasn't really sure why my mother didn't
[14:58] feel that way. I was really thankful
[15:00] that they took as good a care of me as
[15:03] they did considering
[15:06] how they [clears throat] felt.
[15:07] >> Were they loving affectionate at all
[15:09] outside of this war zone in the basement
[15:11] as you call it?
[15:12] >> No, but they didn't they didn't start
[15:14] off that way. So, they didn't have to
[15:16] make any adjustments. I I would watch a
[15:18] sitcom and see those families. Uh,
[15:21] that's where I would notice
[15:24] that this isn't exactly how the family
[15:27] dynamic is supposed to go. I'm watching
[15:29] the Waltons or something, you know? Oh,
[15:32] she's supposed to kiss me every night,
[15:33] huh? Huh? It's interesting. Yeah, it
[15:37] wasn't it wasn't loveydovey like that.
[15:39] But again, I was thankful for how well
[15:43] they treated me. Considering
[15:45] >> I read you were an extremely intelligent
[15:48] young child, especially as it relates to
[15:50] books smarts. Your seventh grade
[15:52] placement test results were so high that
[15:54] your school said you could go straight
[15:56] to college. You are a different thinker.
[15:58] You think very differently to others. I
[16:00] think you you observe the world
[16:01] differently to many people as well. And
[16:04] you know, also hearing about your great
[16:05] love for some of these books that I have
[16:08] here. Ah, look at there. Two great
[16:11] books. Mhm. These were two of your
[16:15] favorites.
[16:16] >> White Fang, Call of the Wild by Jack
[16:19] London. I was just mesmerized that he
[16:22] was able to
[16:24] create this captivating story that had
[16:26] me fully taken like this was one of the
[16:30] first ones where I couldn't start
[16:33] another book. I had to finish this and
[16:36] um
[16:38] and understand it. And the Swiss Family
[16:40] Robinson
[16:43] was just so proud of them as a family
[16:46] and seeing what the dynamic was of
[16:49] everybody working together and everybody
[16:51] having different strengths and
[16:53] weaknesses and uh always having to
[16:57] depend on one another. And um I could
[17:01] find something in each of these tales
[17:05] that I could directly put into my life.
[17:08] You know what I mean? Like
[17:09] >> Mhm.
[17:11] >> Yeah.
[17:11] >> You had um two younger brothers, Steven
[17:13] and Brian.
[17:14] >> Correct.
[17:15] >> Was the treatment the same for Steven
[17:17] and Brian or was it different?
[17:19] >> It was different, which
[17:22] made me feel like it had been more me.
[17:27] But yeah, one of my brothers uh
[17:32] suffers with mental illness and my baby
[17:35] brother is a genius. When my
[17:40] middle brother was born, he looked
[17:43] exactly like my father. It made the
[17:47] whole house better. Like they were so
[17:50] happy to have him.
[17:52] [laughter]
[17:53] They were so happy to have him. um that
[17:57] I realized what a disappointment I must
[18:00] have been to them for whatever reasons.
[18:03] It was eight years in between them and I
[18:07] so I'd lived quite a long time as the
[18:10] only child um before they showed up.
[18:13] >> Were they ever tied up in the basement?
[18:15] >> No.
[18:17] To their credit, they were aware of
[18:20] the fact that that didn't work.
[18:25] They understood it didn't work if
[18:28] nothing else.
[18:29] >> As I've gotten older, I've realized that
[18:33] I learned a model for what relationships
[18:36] are and love is from watching my
[18:39] parents. And I didn't realize that until
[18:41] I looked at some of my
[18:44] habits and responses when I became an
[18:47] adult in romantic contexts. I discovered
[18:50] that I was heavily avoidant because I
[18:53] grew up in a household where my Nigerian
[18:54] mother and my father were often at sort
[18:58] of verbal war. My my Nigerian mother
[19:00] would often, you know, spend many many
[19:02] hours a day um shouting at my father. My
[19:05] father would never say anything. It was
[19:06] just 7 hours of screaming in my house.
[19:09] >> And I used to wonder like why wouldn't
[19:10] my dad leave? Like I I I wanted him to
[19:13] leave.
[19:14] >> I was willing them to break up because
[19:16] it was so um volatile. And then, you
[19:18] know, you don't really know as a young
[19:19] person whether that's changed you in any
[19:21] way until you, you know, you get to 21
[19:23] or you're 14 and someone wants to be in
[19:26] a relationship with you and you find
[19:27] yourself running away from it
[19:29] >> because I think at a young age I I'd
[19:31] learned that commitment is prison. Like
[19:33] my father in my mind was in prison.
[19:36] >> So 14, 15, 16, I spent four years
[19:38] pursuing this girl. She turns around
[19:39] finally and says she would be in a
[19:40] relationship with me and I got the same
[19:43] feeling of like that someone was taking
[19:44] me to prison. It's like a trigger went
[19:46] off and I dissuaded her from being in a
[19:48] relationship with me after four years of
[19:49] pursuing her.
[19:50] >> Right.
[19:50] >> And then I didn't get into a
[19:51] relationship until I was almost I was
[19:54] closer to 30 was my first relationship.
[19:56] And so I reflect and go, "Oh my god, I
[19:58] didn't realize that I had learned a
[20:00] model for love and relationship and
[20:01] affection." And at some point I have to
[20:03] do the work to sort of unlearn that.
[20:05] >> Yeah. Well, it was the opposite. My
[20:08] mother and father's relationship
[20:11] equals out to the greatest love story
[20:14] I've known my whole life. Like um my
[20:18] parents were married when I met them and
[20:21] they're still married to this day. Their
[20:24] love for one another is
[20:28] what I base marriage on. Like I've never
[20:32] seen or heard them argue with one
[20:34] another. I've never seen them have a
[20:36] disagreement between [snorts] one
[20:38] another. I've only saw love
[20:43] in their relationship with one another
[20:45] my entire life,
[20:47] >> which is very confusing.
[20:48] >> Right. Outwardly, they were perfect.
[20:52] Everything they presented was a perfect
[20:55] view of what you would think it should
[20:58] be. There were just things behind the
[21:01] scenes that were terrible. But when they
[21:04] did a great job, they did a great job.
[21:06] And I I can't uh [gasps]
[21:09] I can't tell the story fairly without
[21:12] mentioning that those things.
[21:14] >> In um 100 page 165 in your book, you
[21:17] say, "If I'm being honest, my
[21:18] complicated pattern with women didn't
[21:20] start in adulthood. It started at home.
[21:22] My mama was ground zero."
[21:26] That's supposed to be your first lesson
[21:27] in love, warmth, reassurance. Instead, I
[21:29] got love in sample sizes. That kind of
[21:33] shortage doesn't scream at you. It moves
[21:36] in silently and reshuffles the furniture
[21:39] in your heart.
[21:41] >> Right? Because not getting the love from
[21:44] somewhere where you assume that it
[21:47] naturally comes in is a little bit um
[21:52] more difficult uh to process
[21:56] why that's not happening. The love from
[21:58] other women was all around me and
[22:02] present with every new woman that I met,
[22:06] it seemed. But because of my upbringing,
[22:10] I didn't have any sisters and my mother
[22:14] wasn't engaged personally with me like
[22:17] that. So I I didn't have a frame of
[22:19] reference for how women thought or
[22:25] dialogued. I was getting it from books I
[22:28] was reading. I remember reading Little
[22:30] Women
[22:32] and I read the entire book
[22:36] and when I got to the end, I didn't
[22:38] understand any part of it. I didn't I
[22:41] just didn't understand the different
[22:43] women and how they could all be related
[22:45] and yet all have these completely
[22:48] different viewpoints on things. And
[22:52] yeah, I probably had to read it two or
[22:54] three times just to understand. I I
[22:58] think up until that point I thought that
[23:00] um men and women were pretty similar in
[23:04] their thought processes and in their
[23:08] um communication only to find out
[23:12] there's almost no more intriguing
[23:15] subject than women and [laughter] how
[23:18] important they are to our world and and
[23:22] um
[23:22] >> because the model of a woman in your
[23:24] life was your mother.
[23:25] >> Right. Right.
[23:28] >> Was the abuse dealt at the hands of both
[23:29] your mother and your father?
[23:31] >> Evenly.
[23:32] >> Evenly.
[23:33] >> Yeah.
[23:35] >> Yeah. [gasps]
[23:36] In order for me to live this religious
[23:39] life that I was set up to live, it meant
[23:42] that I had to be 100% invested and I had
[23:47] to act the way that I believed. And
[23:51] early on,
[23:53] I had decided that I wasn't going to
[23:56] live a double life. I wasn't going to
[23:59] pretend for you that this is my life and
[24:02] I'm happy with this. And
[24:04] >> the religious part,
[24:05] >> right, with these answers to these
[24:07] questions and yeah, I'm just not going
[24:10] to do it.
[24:11] >> Were they Jehovah's Witnesses?
[24:13] >> Allegedly.
[24:19] could have been Scientologist,
[24:21] but yes.
[24:23] >> What [laughter] do you say allegedly?
[24:27] Well, because this isn't in anybody's
[24:32] religious framework, you know, like they
[24:35] weren't doing this to stay in good
[24:38] graces
[24:39] of the religion. Like the religion
[24:42] wasn't condoning this. Even then, nobody
[24:45] thought you could beat a child half to
[24:48] death on a weekly basis to the point
[24:50] where they're unconscious in a bathtub
[24:53] before school and you're having to try
[24:56] to get them to where they can um where
[24:59] the bleeding will stop so they can go to
[25:01] school. Like no, no religion condones
[25:04] that. But we were high up in the
[25:08] religion and an example to a lot of
[25:10] people. So, it was necessary that I do a
[25:14] better acting job or give in.
[25:18] >> Unconscious in a bathtub before school
[25:21] >> and they put you in the bathtub because
[25:22] you were bleeding,
[25:23] >> right?
[25:26] Well, we had like an hour
[25:29] to play with sometimes as far as um what
[25:33] just happened and now I'm in no shape
[25:38] to be getting ready for a school day.
[25:41] But we got to get the bleeding to stop
[25:44] and we got to,
[25:46] you know, Epsom salts, I believe, just
[25:49] so we can get a good scab on so he can
[25:51] afford to put his clothes on and get on
[25:53] off to school. Cuz no matter what
[25:55] happened, I was never missing school.
[25:57] School was like everything in my world.
[26:01] just to get a chance to be out of this
[26:03] situation and in a different situation
[26:06] where they don't even know that that
[26:08] situation took place. Like that's why I
[26:11] look happy in all the school pictures.
[26:13] >> They they beat you until you
[26:14] unconscious.
[26:16] >> Yeah. They had great stamina. Yeah. The
[26:19] these would go on for hours. Like
[26:24] generally that's when they felt like
[26:25] they had done too much. Cuz when it
[26:28] first started, like I had neighbors next
[26:30] door that loved me, an older white
[26:33] couple, and I knew their house was too
[26:35] close to our house for them not to be
[26:39] [clears throat] able to hear. So a lot
[26:41] of times I would make sure that it was
[26:43] boisterous enough that the neighbors
[26:45] could all
[26:47] bear witness to what I was going
[26:49] through. And when I saw them years
[26:50] later, they were they were so
[26:53] crestfalling. They were like, "We just
[26:54] didn't understand what was going on
[26:57] because we would hear it for hours and
[26:59] hours at night." And then we would see
[27:02] you at 700 a.m. and you'd be all dressed
[27:06] and smiling and your way to school like
[27:09] it didn't happen. And uh I got so much
[27:13] from that. Like I was so prepared for
[27:17] what might happen out in the world
[27:19] considering just cuz I knew I could
[27:21] count on me in those situations
[27:25] to figure an answer out where we could
[27:28] be good.
[27:32] I know you're going somewhere with that.
[27:33] >> No, I'm I'm just so fascinated. This is
[27:35] why I'm not looking down at my notes
[27:36] because it's so I'm fascinated by how in
[27:40] my words such a horrific early
[27:42] experience ends up leaving scars on you
[27:45] and you know I um I sat and interviewed
[27:48] Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryan's coach
[27:50] and they one of the things he said to me
[27:52] is our our we have a dark side and a
[27:55] light side as he referred to it and he
[27:56] said our dark side is fundamentally
[27:57] connected to our light side. So in the
[27:59] case often when you meet you know
[28:00] comedians there's a stereotype that they
[28:02] were trying to make someone happy
[28:04] whether it was themselves or a parent
[28:05] when they were younger and that's really
[28:06] where comedy originated from often this
[28:08] is the stereotype and that's what's
[28:10] what's made them the great comedian or
[28:13] performer or artist they are today and
[28:15] that's kind of what I was mulling is how
[28:17] how this experience is at all connected
[28:19] to what you then went on to do in your
[28:21] life professionally.
[28:22] >> That's not really where the bridge for
[28:24] me was. I I never thought I would be
[28:26] involved in comedy, but I learned early
[28:30] that I could count on comedy to help me
[28:34] change how I felt. So, I was interested
[28:38] in all forms of comedy, no matter who
[28:43] was doing it, no matter if it was
[28:45] slapstick or silent or whether it was
[28:49] literary or whether it was Don Knots. I
[28:52] appreciated the fact that it didn't
[28:54] matter what you were going through.
[28:58] If you could put yourself in a position
[29:02] to get a laugh, it would absolutely make
[29:06] things better.
[29:07] >> Make you better or the audience?
[29:09] >> There was no audience. It was just me. I
[29:11] just knew that
[29:14] watching a comedy film is going to
[29:17] change my day. Like I'm going to laugh
[29:20] enough times in this that when I come
[29:23] out of this situation, I won't I won't
[29:26] feel the way it was when I started. And
[29:29] comedy always came through for me.
[29:32] >> You're describing comedy as if it's
[29:34] medicine.
[29:34] >> I would have used anything that worked.
[29:37] Comedy
[29:38] made light of all situations,
[29:41] even at a funeral. If you're in a
[29:44] funeral proceeding and a joke is told,
[29:49] it hits even harder because um we need
[29:53] the laugh. When I shut that room door
[29:57] that soon as I shut that door, I'm in
[30:01] control now.
[30:02] >> Your bedroom door.
[30:03] >> Yeah. And I know things about my brain
[30:06] that I don't think other people know. I
[30:09] know that I can put things in here and
[30:12] it will change
[30:15] how I see things. I fed myself on comedy
[30:20] things, just comedy material because it
[30:23] was just so helpful. When it came a
[30:26] point where I could do comedy,
[30:29] [gasps]
[30:30] that [clears throat] was out of nowhere.
[30:31] That's the one thing I had never even
[30:36] put in my head is that I could be
[30:38] involved in comedy, but I I already had
[30:40] a proper respect for how important it
[30:42] was.
[30:43] >> You left home at 13 years old,
[30:46] >> right,
[30:46] >> and ran away. Take me into what led up
[30:50] to that decision.
[30:51] >> I didn't run away. It was only a matter
[30:53] of time before the authorities were
[30:57] involved and that's just how it
[30:59] happened. like I I never said anything
[31:02] to anyone. My parents never said
[31:04] anything. It was wonderful, blessed
[31:07] administrators at school that um noticed
[31:11] that the guy who loved nothing more than
[31:15] gym physical education wasn't dressing
[31:18] out for Jim sometimes and they found
[31:21] that to be odd and unlike him. So, you
[31:24] know, the police were called to the
[31:26] school. They did uh an investigation,
[31:30] took pictures, and the plan was that
[31:34] they were going to come to our house the
[31:37] next day and make arrests. And so I I
[31:41] needed to
[31:43] not be there when that happened so that
[31:46] my younger brothers had a chance.
[31:49] >> So the police took photos of your body?
[31:52] >> Yeah.
[31:52] >> And what did they find?
[31:54] >> Well, it was obvious. It's like I I got
[31:58] I'm [clears throat] covered in um
[32:01] extension cord wounds. Like it's they're
[32:05] pretty deep. They're often you can see
[32:08] the progression from the extension cords
[32:12] to the water holes. So you can there's
[32:14] damage on my body.
[32:15] >> Did you want the police to know?
[32:20] No, but um I I didn't have a way of
[32:23] proving to myself that this is egregious
[32:26] and outside the way outside the norm.
[32:29] This is beyond the pale. This is um
[32:32] criminal. I didn't really have a frame
[32:35] for that, but they did. And they were
[32:38] quite clear that it doesn't go like
[32:41] this. Like nobody gets to do this
[32:43] [gasps]
[32:44] to a child and it doesn't matter what
[32:45] you did. So, um, when I asked them, "So,
[32:50] what's what's going to happen tomorrow?"
[32:52] And they were like, "We're coming to the
[32:54] house. We're going to arrest your
[32:56] parents, and we're going to move your
[32:59] brothers to a safe place, you and your
[33:01] brothers, where everybody can be safe."
[33:03] And um my question was could they at
[33:06] least
[33:08] promise that um my two younger brothers
[33:11] wouldn't be separated, you know, because
[33:14] we had loads of family in the city, you
[33:17] know, and there were many options for
[33:20] that. So I I just wanted that as a
[33:23] guarantee from them. And they explained
[33:25] to me that they couldn't make any
[33:26] guarantees like that. That that's not
[33:28] they weren't part of the system. Their
[33:30] job is to remove the kids. And however
[33:33] the system has to deal with it, that's
[33:35] how they deal with it. And um so that
[33:38] was basically what I was trying to
[33:40] circumvent was letting my situation
[33:45] ruin my brother's situations.
[33:48] >> Who told your parents that the police
[33:50] were coming?
[33:51] >> I told them everything that had happened
[33:54] that day in school.
[33:55] >> How did they react?
[33:56] >> I guess they took it well from the
[33:58] story. They knew I couldn't have had
[34:01] anything to to do with it.
[34:04] >> And when you're so you sit with them,
[34:05] you're 13 years old at the dinner table
[34:07] and you say, "Listen, I'm going to
[34:08] leave."
[34:10] Did you have a plan for where you were
[34:11] going to go and what you were going to
[34:12] do? Did they try and stop you leaving?
[34:14] Well, I think many parents of the time
[34:20] had a thing where as long as you live
[34:23] under this roof, these are the rules,
[34:26] you know, and arts was no different. And
[34:30] I was just letting them know that I
[34:32] could no longer
[34:34] live with the rules and regulations. And
[34:38] uh
[34:38] >> But you're 13 years old. You're not
[34:40] you're not a man yet. But but I'm 5'5
[34:43] and my father's 5'3, so I'm taller than
[34:47] the man of this house and
[34:51] I'm not going to let you
[34:55] beat me again.
[34:57] That's where we are now. So, whatever
[35:00] one you got off, that was the last one
[35:03] of those. If you're in a situation that
[35:06] is no longer feasible for you as a
[35:09] person and it's bad for your health
[35:12] literally and figuratively,
[35:15] whatever age you are, you've got to make
[35:17] a grown decision and a right decision.
[35:21] And that that was certainly it for me.
[35:24] >> Did you have a plan?
[35:26] >> No.
[35:29] [clears throat] No. No. I No, certainly
[35:32] not.
[35:32] >> Did you have money? Mhm. It was millions
[35:35] of dollars for a 12y old, but I think I
[35:37] had like I think I had like $1,200.
[35:41] >> $1,200.
[35:42] >> So, I was literally hemorrhaging cash.
[35:46] >> Did you move into somewhere else or were
[35:48] you homeless at from 13 years old? I
[35:51] went to um a truck stop, found out which
[35:54] trucks were going to warm weather places
[35:57] because I was had been in Ohio my whole
[35:59] life and I just knew I didn't want to
[36:02] deal with being out there by myself and
[36:06] the winter weather. And so it really
[36:08] left me like California, Texas, and
[36:12] Florida as my options. And uh Florida is
[36:17] where I ended up. So immediately upon
[36:21] getting to Florida to Miami, I'm
[36:24] homeless as you put it. But I didn't I
[36:27] didn't feel like that. I didn't own the
[36:29] home I was just at, you know, and I
[36:31] didn't feel comfortable there. So I I
[36:33] didn't feel homeless. I felt I felt
[36:35] free. And I felt like today I'm not a
[36:39] victim of any circumstances.
[36:43] >> I found a sign of of the park that you
[36:47] slept in.
[36:48] from 13 years old, [laughter]
[36:52] >> which is Peacock Park in the city of
[36:54] Miami.
[36:54] >> So, isn't it interesting that it
[36:57] literally says where magic happens?
[37:01] [laughter]
[37:02] Like, what other park in America has
[37:05] that? Like, why would you why is that
[37:08] there? But my life story says magic
[37:13] happened there. That's crazy.
[37:17] Yeah, you certainly do your due
[37:18] diligence. I've never even seen that
[37:20] sign.
[37:22] >> What What magic took place in Peacock
[37:24] Park when you were 13? for somebody who
[37:28] didn't really have a social footprint in
[37:31] the world
[37:33] and somebody who loves stories,
[37:38] this was um a front seat
[37:43] viewing of some of life's turmoil and
[37:48] tribulation. So, I'll say it's 1983
[37:54] Miami Vice. [laughter]
[37:56] There's a lot of things going on in
[37:58] Miami at the time. And there's this
[38:00] homeless
[38:02] enclave that exists at the back of this
[38:06] park. Everybody in this enclave was
[38:10] doing terribly in life and it was a new
[38:13] circumstance for them. They were just a
[38:16] doctor and they were just a lawyer and
[38:19] they were just a nurse recently and they
[38:21] just had a wife and a family and people
[38:24] that loved them and they made this
[38:27] particular decision and they got on this
[38:30] particular drug and then the whole story
[38:33] is downhill from there and this guy
[38:37] who's telling me about his whole life
[38:39] until alcoholism
[38:42] shows up and he can't hang on and he
[38:46] loses everything that means something to
[38:49] him. And that's 100% responsible
[38:53] for why I never tried hard drugs because
[38:58] I got scared straight like too early.
[39:01] Like nobody told the story of good
[39:04] times, how great being on LSD was or how
[39:09] greatly cocaine had changed and affected
[39:13] their life. like they were living good
[39:15] lives. They were good people. It was
[39:18] just certain decisions that you make
[39:20] that you can't get back. [clears throat]
[39:23] No peacocks at the park, interestingly
[39:25] enough, but yes, magic definitely
[39:29] happened for me there.
[39:30] >> Were you taken care of by the homeless
[39:33] community in the park? Was it a safe
[39:35] place for you?
[39:37] >> No, I don't think there were any safe
[39:38] places. And some people are homeless
[39:41] because they're terrible people.
[39:43] >> [laughter]
[39:44] >> Some people are terrible people and
[39:46] they've burned all of the bridges in
[39:49] their life and they've hurt people that
[39:52] didn't deserve it and they've made awful
[39:55] decisions and that's how they end up in
[39:57] that situation. I had to learn that
[40:00] there's good and bad people out there.
[40:03] >> What were you doing to make money at at
[40:05] that time? For the most part, I was able
[40:07] to find some employment that didn't need
[40:10] my identification and just somebody that
[40:13] owned a business that didn't mind a guy
[40:16] coming in and um working after hours.
[40:21] So, God looked out for me there. And I I
[40:24] tried my hand at u car theft, which was
[40:27] a lucrative thing in the area that I was
[40:31] in. I really gave myself a hard time
[40:35] about it and couldn't morally
[40:39] continue just because I didn't want to I
[40:42] didn't want this to be the one thing I
[40:44] was good at is doing something illegal.
[40:47] So I I had a very brief stent with um
[40:51] with that. On page 55 in your book, you
[40:54] talk about how one day you're walking
[40:55] along the highway and your parents and
[40:57] brother found you and they pulled up
[40:59] beside you in their car. Take me into
[41:02] that moment. What did they say? What did
[41:04] you say?
[41:05] >> It was probably like the most movie like
[41:09] scenario I've ever been a part of
[41:12] outside of a movie. And this is now
[41:16] a year and a half later and I've been to
[41:21] three or four different locations
[41:24] in this state [sighs and gasps]
[41:27] and I am literally just walking
[41:30] alongside the highway when a vehicle
[41:33] pulls over. So, up until this point,
[41:37] I've been checking all the milk cartons
[41:39] I can find at the stores, and I know
[41:43] that nobody's looking for me. There's no
[41:47] missing persons.
[41:48] >> You were actually checking milk cartons.
[41:51] >> Well, yeah, because I I had such a large
[41:53] family and I I was certain that I had
[41:56] been missed. Um, [laughter] I thought I
[42:00] was a great kid and so I had to come to
[42:02] grips with the fact that no, nobody
[42:06] misses you and nobody cares that you're
[42:08] gone and nobody noticed. You're just out
[42:11] there. I was just really in shock
[42:13] because I wasn't sure if
[42:17] they have been tailing me for a year and
[42:19] a half. Have they been following me for
[42:22] a year and a half? Were they aware of
[42:25] where I was the whole time? I I I didn't
[42:29] I didn't have any of the information.
[42:31] So, it was a
[42:34] it was a very weird meetup. But I was
[42:37] also
[42:39] what I thought the way that I would feel
[42:41] about seeing them was completely erased
[42:45] by how happy I was to see my brothers.
[42:50] And I didn't realize in that year and a
[42:53] half
[42:54] how gut-wrenching leaving my brothers
[42:58] was going to be in my life and um so
[43:03] that kind of overwhelmed everything and
[43:05] they let me know that they were in
[43:07] Florida and yeah just hop in.
[43:10] >> Were they looking for you or did they
[43:12] just happen to drive past you?
[43:14] >> It's the state they went to.
[43:17] So we find out later on that when I
[43:20] leave that day,
[43:22] they leave the same day.
[43:24] >> They moved as well. Oh, because the
[43:26] police were coming.
[43:27] >> So they moved the whole family that same
[43:30] day
[43:30] >> to Florida.
[43:31] >> So it never looked to my family or
[43:33] people that loved me. It never looked
[43:35] like I had left home. It looked like the
[43:38] family had moved. And because they were
[43:40] missionaries,
[43:42] people thought that was perfectly
[43:46] understandable. So, they tell you to hop
[43:48] in the car. Presumably, you get in the
[43:50] car.
[43:51] >> And is there a conversation that you
[43:53] have with your parents at that time? Is
[43:55] there a hug or
[43:57] >> No, but they're so I know they're glad
[44:00] to see me for some reason.
[44:02] And I I didn't leave on that note. Um,
[44:06] but everybody is overjoyed to see me,
[44:09] >> you know, cuz when you objectively
[44:11] describe these situations, when you say
[44:12] things to me like, I realized that
[44:14] nobody was looking for me and nobody
[44:15] missed me. These are um these are very
[44:18] difficult things for me to hear because
[44:21] it it's it's it's heartbreaking to hear
[44:25] a child say that about their parents,
[44:27] but you're able to say it in a way
[44:28] that's quite matter of fact. And that
[44:32] makes me wonder like how you've
[44:33] processed the emotions of all of this
[44:35] through your life. And have you at all
[44:37] been able to sort of like
[44:38] compartmentalize maybe is the word or
[44:40] maybe just generally sort of numb
[44:41] yourself
[44:42] to be able to process and move forward
[44:45] in life without you know thank you.
[44:49] That's kind of a compliment if that's
[44:50] what's going on. But yeah, I wasn't
[44:53] getting what it was I was expecting from
[44:56] these two individuals.
[44:59] But I was getting so much from places I
[45:04] didn't expect it. So for however poorly
[45:08] my parents might have done in the
[45:10] situation, my grandparents were
[45:12] wonderful. Like [laughter]
[45:14] like the my Right. Right. Exactly.
[45:20] >> This is a picture of all of your family.
[45:22] literally the best family possible like
[45:25] as far as happiness and well-being and
[45:29] like it
[45:31] yeah my
[45:33] parents shortcomings didn't change any
[45:36] of that.
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[47:28] entrepreneur, as an investor, which is
[47:29] the sort of higher level things around
[47:31] taste, creativity, judgment. You will
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[47:46] You go on a mission to Haiti with uh
[47:48] with your family shortly thereafter. You
[47:51] talk about that a lot in the book. And
[47:52] then you return back to America after
[47:55] the Haitian government collapses. Um
[47:57] you're 15 16 years old when you return.
[48:00] You didn't return to school once you got
[48:01] back to the US. Um, you worked in a
[48:05] carnival, I believe, around that time.
[48:07] >> Yeah.
[48:08] >> When does your first standup show
[48:12] happen?
[48:12] >> So, now we're back from Haiti. I'm
[48:17] trying to figure out
[48:20] what my life holds.
[48:22] >> You're still living with your parents at
[48:23] this time? You're back living with them?
[48:25] >> No. If it's not for going to Haiti, the
[48:28] whole come live with them thing already
[48:32] wasn't going to work. Um, I was already
[48:37] grown past my years. Like, I got this
[48:39] whole grown man life that just wouldn't
[48:43] couldn't be put in a child's box again.
[48:46] Um,
[48:47] but as I'm out there in this world where
[48:51] they have this city where the carnival
[48:54] people come to when there is no
[48:56] carnival, I'm in that area. And um
[48:59] there's five or six people that are part
[49:02] of this business where they sell
[49:05] flowers. And um one night they weren't
[49:10] going home after work. They were going
[49:12] to go to this um little club. this
[49:15] little bar.
[49:16] >> And these are all adults, 21 year olds.
[49:18] >> Well,
[49:19] >> and you're 16,
[49:20] >> I think. Maybe the oldest person might
[49:21] be 21, but everybody else is 18 and 19.
[49:25] And I'm just 16, you know,
[49:28] >> and I only have dress clothes. So, you
[49:31] know, everybody just assumes that I'm a
[49:33] of age young man. But as we're in this
[49:36] line, there's somebody IDing people and
[49:39] I realize that this is getting ready to
[49:41] be a situation because nobody here knows
[49:43] how old I really am. And right as I'm
[49:46] trying to process what to do,
[49:49] I see that some people aren't getting in
[49:51] this line with us. Certain people are
[49:53] walking around the line and going up to
[49:56] the bouncer and saying something and
[49:59] he's letting them right in. No ID, no
[50:01] money exchange, nothing. So, I'm paying
[50:04] attention to that and I'm noticing, oh,
[50:07] they're going over there and telling
[50:08] them they're a comedian and getting in.
[50:11] That's the first time I even know that
[50:14] comedy is taking place here. It turns
[50:16] out they're having a comedy competition.
[50:19] I'm able to get in without an ID because
[50:22] I tell him I'm a comedian. He lets me
[50:24] in, lets me know I'm number five. I'm
[50:26] thinking when we get in this place, I'll
[50:28] be able to just go back where my friends
[50:30] are. And um but when we get in there, it
[50:34] probably only seated like 30 people the
[50:37] whole venue. So there was nowhere to
[50:40] hide. I was literally comedian number
[50:42] five. They explain that you're just
[50:44] getting up there and you have whatever
[50:46] it was 3 to 5 minutes and you go up
[50:49] there and when everybody's done they'll
[50:51] pick who they like the best. And so that
[50:54] was my first foray into comedy of any
[50:58] kind. and uh
[51:01] >> you win the competition,
[51:03] >> right? But at evidence that I had no
[51:06] idea what was going on because I if I
[51:11] was up there for four or five minutes, I
[51:14] only told one joke. I didn't have
[51:16] multiple topics or anything. I I
[51:19] literally got on stage and I talked
[51:21] about one subject the entire time. It
[51:25] was just they liked the subject. And you
[51:28] didn't do comedy again for years after
[51:30] that night.
[51:31] >> Yeah, I don't I don't do comedy again
[51:34] for another 5 years just because um I
[51:37] still didn't understand this was a job
[51:39] you could do.
[51:40] >> Did you know you were funny?
[51:42] >> I knew that you needed a certain bit of
[51:44] intelligence to be funny. I knew that it
[51:48] was uh more difficult than it seemed.
[51:50] But
[51:53] I just assumed that it had my success
[51:56] had more to do with the subject matter
[51:58] that I had chosen at that particular
[52:00] time. And it paid $25 for 5 minutes.
[52:05] Although I could appreciate, huh, that's
[52:08] pretty decent money just for talking. It
[52:10] still didn't seem like a job
[52:13] opportunity.
[52:14] >> If I'd asked you at that age, 16 years
[52:16] old, what you want to be in the future,
[52:18] what would you have said to me? I wanted
[52:19] to be a soldier and
[52:23] die for this country.
[52:24] >> And you applied to become a marine at 16
[52:27] years old. You did all the tests. You
[52:28] passed easily. And then one of the
[52:30] clerks reviewed a file and realized you
[52:32] were 4 months too young to join. You say
[52:34] in the book, "My dream died before I
[52:36] even laced up my boots."
[52:38] >> Yeah. Because this isn't happening at
[52:40] the time that I'm talking to you. This
[52:42] is happening a year earlier.
[52:44] >> I had already Yeah. So I was 15.
[52:48] >> [laughter]
[52:48] >> I was 15, but I was I was crushed
[52:52] because I
[52:53] >> I don't know if you are old enough to
[52:57] remember how the Marine Corps
[53:01] commercials were at that time, you know,
[53:04] with the pulling the sword out of the
[53:06] rock.
[53:08] >> Yeah.
[53:09] >> You end up being a salesman for the next
[53:10] sort of five years, selling a bunch of
[53:13] different things.
[53:14] >> Correct.
[53:15] And eventually
[53:17] you became a pimp. [laughter]
[53:20] Is that true?
[53:21] >> Yeah.
[53:23] All All circumstantial.
[53:25] >> Circumstantial.
[53:26] >> Yeah. All circumstantial. So I am
[53:28] introduced to doortodoor sales, right?
[53:32] And I'm thinking, well, I kind of
[53:35] already have a leg up in this particular
[53:38] industry because I find that what stops
[53:41] most people from being really good at
[53:44] doortodoor sales is not feeling
[53:47] comfortable talking to people or talking
[53:49] to people that you don't know or you
[53:51] know and I I have been doing that my
[53:54] whole life. So, I didn't have that
[53:55] particular trepidation.
[53:57] And all of the things that I was selling
[54:00] were such good things and so useful to
[54:04] you as a person that I felt really good
[54:07] about being the person bringing them to
[54:09] you. Like I initially was selling books
[54:12] and magazines, you know, and I was a
[54:14] reader and I wanted people to do more
[54:18] reading and I get a commission. It was a
[54:20] great a perfect thing for me. Um, as far
[54:24] as the um
[54:28] pimping part, I didn't sign up for that.
[54:31] I just knocked on a door where some
[54:35] ladies of the night resided and they had
[54:40] just lost their guy in a tragic
[54:45] incident that was on the news and um
[54:50] yeah, their pimp had been killed out
[54:52] there on the streets. because I was in
[54:54] control of my life. If I really wanted
[54:57] to, I could quit what I was doing and
[55:00] help them.
[55:00] >> And these women trained you on how to do
[55:04] the job,
[55:04] >> right?
[55:05] >> And you you say also showed him what it
[55:07] was like to be a man.
[55:08] >> Remember as I explained to you that I
[55:11] hadn't um grown up with women in my
[55:16] family really. So
[55:20] [clears throat] whatever
[55:22] conceptions I had about these ladies
[55:24] because of what they
[55:27] did for a living,
[55:29] they quickly dispelled all of that for
[55:32] me in very
[55:34] matterof fact ways. And they would have
[55:36] conversations on a nightly basis
[55:40] that
[55:42] I know for a fact are responsible for me
[55:46] becoming a better man. like the things
[55:48] that they taught me, I needed to know. I
[55:51] needed to know how important hygiene is
[55:55] for a man. And I needed to know um the
[55:59] things that women don't like
[56:03] about men and how easily fixable most of
[56:07] these things are. And that was their
[56:10] discussion 24 hours a day is just how
[56:13] terrible men were and how awful they
[56:16] were. And I was just determined that I
[56:19] was going to do my best to not be in
[56:23] those um situations, but they were
[56:27] [sighs] they were beyond helpful for me.
[56:30] >> Do you think God brought you back to
[56:32] comedy? you're sort of 20 years old at
[56:34] this point, but I I've heard you talk a
[56:35] lot about how prayer and God played a
[56:38] role in you coming back to comedy and
[56:40] really sort of orientating your career
[56:41] towards comedy
[56:43] >> because I needed to know which lane had
[56:46] potential for me. Um because my
[56:49] situations were so desperate that I was
[56:53] willing to try almost anything cuz I had
[56:57] the heart for it. You know what I mean?
[56:58] So I I just realized how weak I was
[57:03] morally if
[57:07] if I could make a fast buck. So I I I I
[57:11] was disappointed in myself that if
[57:14] somebody showed me the opportunity to
[57:16] sell drugs that I would even entertain
[57:19] it. I needed him to deliver me from me.
[57:22] I needed a opportunity for my life that
[57:27] would allow me to be a single parent,
[57:29] would allow me to be at home all day,
[57:33] work at night, something that I could do
[57:37] without having to look over my shoulder
[57:39] and
[57:41] and I asked for these things
[57:43] specifically when I didn't have any idea
[57:47] where to go next or which direction to
[57:50] head And that is at the point where I'm
[57:55] asking God to please just send me
[57:58] something
[57:59] that meets all of this criteria. And if
[58:02] you do it, I will immediately show you
[58:05] how grateful I am based upon how hard I
[58:09] go at this thing, whatever it is.
[58:12] >> How did you know this is what he sent
[58:13] you?
[58:15] Um, I mean, I've got um
[58:20] I've got a [laughter] little recreation
[58:22] of something that I heard you did in
[58:24] your bedroom. I read that you wrote down
[58:26] the names of 300 comedians
[58:29] and you made the decision that you were
[58:30] going to study all of them so that you
[58:32] could become the best.
[58:33] >> If I had this list, this would have been
[58:36] what I was trying to go for. on my list
[58:38] was not the comedians who were already
[58:41] household names and were what I deemed
[58:46] famous and out of there already. This
[58:49] was the 300 comedians
[58:53] that were working already and in my
[58:56] time, place, and era. And so, you know,
[59:00] there was
[59:03] hundreds of comedians that never
[59:06] progressed past Comic View or never made
[59:10] it to Def Jam. These were the
[59:12] competition and I was trying to figure
[59:14] out how do I get past these 300 names to
[59:19] even get my name considered with these
[59:22] guys that are already up here. That was
[59:25] um what I was trying to do.
[59:28] >> And you obsessed about it.
[59:29] >> Well, because they were funnier than me
[59:31] and that's what I had to fix.
[59:34] >> This is what I'm curious about is what
[59:35] it takes to become great.
[59:38] People don't see that. They don't see
[59:40] you writing 300 names down. They see you
[59:42] on stage now. And so when they struggle,
[59:44] sometimes they take that as evidence of
[59:46] their own inadequacy.
[59:48] So in your mind, from what you learned
[59:50] through this period, what does it take
[59:51] to become great? people look at you and
[59:53] think maybe he was always just great,
[59:55] maybe he was born that way.
[59:57] >> I often tell the story that um one of
[1:00:02] the first
[1:00:04] lessons that I learned was what
[1:00:07] separates an American from
[1:00:12] wonderful people from around the world.
[1:00:14] We believe that tomorrow can be better
[1:00:17] than today was. And that if you can find
[1:00:20] a situation
[1:00:22] or a lane or a path,
[1:00:25] the only thing that never fails is if
[1:00:29] you outwork the people you're in
[1:00:32] competition with. You can beat them in
[1:00:34] this country.
[1:00:35] >> Did you do that?
[1:00:37] >> Yes.
[1:00:38] >> How?
[1:00:39] >> Yes. because everything that I had read
[1:00:41] and studied and seen led me to believe
[1:00:45] that that was the case. Like even as a
[1:00:48] kid entering the landscaping business, I
[1:00:52] only got this one lawnmower. But nothing
[1:00:56] stops me from getting 26 clients. I can
[1:01:00] get 26 clients. And even though you as a
[1:01:03] grown man, you don't have 26 contracts,
[1:01:06] me as a kid, I can outwork you. I can do
[1:01:10] more yards for cheaper and make those
[1:01:14] type of decisions guaranteeing me more
[1:01:16] work. And every time I tested this out,
[1:01:20] it worked. It worked for cutting grass.
[1:01:22] It worked for shoveling snow. It worked
[1:01:25] for selling doortodoor. As soon as I
[1:01:28] found out it takes me 300 nos to get 30
[1:01:34] yeses, I no longer was bothered by the
[1:01:38] nos. My job is now to get more nos than
[1:01:42] you. And I know I'm going to be more
[1:01:44] successful than you because my goal
[1:01:47] today is to make 900 people tell me no
[1:01:52] because I want 90 sales. So no, even in
[1:01:57] standup,
[1:01:58] like I'm not judging these comedians
[1:02:03] on their background or their delivery or
[1:02:06] any of that. I'm watching their comedy
[1:02:10] and I'm counting how many times the
[1:02:13] people laugh. So, everybody has a
[1:02:16] 15minute set. I'm counting and
[1:02:20] tabulating how that went for you.
[1:02:24] Maybe you don't even have this
[1:02:26] information, but I know that in a
[1:02:28] 15minute
[1:02:30] standup, your name is good for nine
[1:02:33] laughs.
[1:02:34] And I know that I'm trying to come in at
[1:02:38] 16 and 17 for the same amount of time.
[1:02:42] And so I'm not crossing your name off
[1:02:45] the list until I am out producing you.
[1:02:50] >> And you work 7 days a week.
[1:02:51] >> 8 hours a day.
[1:02:53] >> 8 hours a day doing comedy or
[1:02:55] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I thought that
[1:02:56] was the shortcut to getting better. If I
[1:02:59] treat this like a real job because I
[1:03:02] expect from it the things you get from a
[1:03:05] real job. If I spend 8 hours a day on
[1:03:10] this, there's no way
[1:03:13] my competition can keep up with me. I I
[1:03:17] it seems a no-brainer that if I work
[1:03:19] harder, better things will happen. How
[1:03:22] many years did you spend before you got
[1:03:25] a quote, you know, they call it like a
[1:03:26] big break, a moment where you kind of
[1:03:28] notice that things are shifting? How
[1:03:29] many years of repetitions did you put in
[1:03:32] before you had a a moment where you go,
[1:03:34] "Fucking hell, this is I think I might
[1:03:36] be
[1:03:37] able to really live off this and provide
[1:03:39] myself for this. And I think I might be
[1:03:40] different. I think I might have broken
[1:03:42] out."
[1:03:42] >> Six years.
[1:03:43] >> Six years.
[1:03:44] >> Six years. So there was six years in
[1:03:47] between. Huh. Okay. I'm a stand-up
[1:03:51] comedian because remember when I won the
[1:03:53] competition, part of the prize for the
[1:03:56] competition was that you got to open for
[1:04:00] a tour that was already happening.
[1:04:03] [snorts] So as soon as I won
[1:04:05] >> the competition at 20,
[1:04:07] >> right?
[1:04:07] >> Yeah. In Oklahoma,
[1:04:09] >> immediately it was I'm the fivem minute
[1:04:12] opener to this particular show. So I'm
[1:04:16] immediately going in as a professional
[1:04:19] comedian, but it is
[1:04:23] 6 years from that point before the first
[1:04:27] milestone. In the meantime of that 6
[1:04:30] years,
[1:04:32] because I believe that the big break is
[1:04:34] inevitable because I believe that that's
[1:04:37] how it works for everyone. I'm just
[1:04:40] trying to make sure that I'm in the best
[1:04:43] possible
[1:04:44] position when that happens. So that's
[1:04:47] what
[1:04:49] makes me move to Sacramento initially
[1:04:52] for 2 years because they've got four or
[1:04:56] five comedy places and um white
[1:05:00] audiences that pack into these comedy
[1:05:02] rooms and um I need to be as funny as I
[1:05:08] possibly can for these white audiences.
[1:05:10] I don't want to have to have a different
[1:05:13] set when I go to a all-white audience. I
[1:05:16] don't want to have to be another part of
[1:05:18] me. I want to do a better job at
[1:05:22] being funny, you know?
[1:05:24] >> So, by the time I
[1:05:27] achieve some modicum of that,
[1:05:31] now Def Jam is on and comic view and I'm
[1:05:35] realizing, oh,
[1:05:39] I'm not that funny to my people. Like
[1:05:43] I'm doing really well at white clubs,
[1:05:45] but as far as a black comedian goes, I'm
[1:05:50] bottom tier. Like these other people are
[1:05:53] way far ahead of me. but just because I
[1:05:57] I hadn't been in front of black
[1:05:58] audiences, you know, and so then I go to
[1:06:01] Oakland and I spend 2 and 1/2 years
[1:06:04] there where it's all black audiences and
[1:06:07] audiences with a high comedy IQ where
[1:06:11] they're seeing comedians from Los
[1:06:13] Angeles on a weekly basis. And so that
[1:06:17] gave me another
[1:06:19] ground to break until by the time I
[1:06:23] leave Oakland now I'm at least
[1:06:26] not that I'm as funny as I need to be,
[1:06:29] but I'm at least equally funny if the
[1:06:32] audience is white
[1:06:35] predominantly as I am if it's black
[1:06:38] predominantly. And I found that at all
[1:06:40] times you can find the pattern to
[1:06:44] success. The quicker you find it, the
[1:06:46] quicker you can put it in action so that
[1:06:49] you know that it's the case. So from my
[1:06:51] first special to my 14th special, I have
[1:06:56] been doing exactly everything the same
[1:06:59] way. I'm writing them the same way. I'm
[1:07:02] thinking about them in the same way. And
[1:07:05] I'm turning them over in the same
[1:07:07] fashion as I was then because my job is
[1:07:13] to keep doing it till it doesn't work.
[1:07:16] As long as it continues to work, as long
[1:07:18] as I can tour the hundred cities, be
[1:07:22] better at this hour of comedy because I
[1:07:26] tried it out with people in the west and
[1:07:29] the east and the north and the south.
[1:07:31] I've traveled it. I know which parts to
[1:07:34] add. I've taken out things that weren't
[1:07:37] funny enough and refixed them. And I now
[1:07:41] know that at the end of that 100 once
[1:07:43] I've done a 100 cities, I know that this
[1:07:46] can now go worldwide and this will be
[1:07:48] funny for the masses and do that. And
[1:07:52] then immediately after I've done that, I
[1:07:54] have already written the next hour and I
[1:07:57] am now on the road again doing that 100
[1:08:00] cities in the next part of this
[1:08:03] conversation. And so I have done that
[1:08:06] the entire time
[1:08:09] uh that I've been going.
[1:08:11] >> And you end up getting your first
[1:08:12] standup special at 35 years old called
[1:08:16] Cat Williams Live, which I I recall
[1:08:17] seeing many many times. This is what I
[1:08:19] find fascinating about all the people I
[1:08:21] interview is your first comedy show was
[1:08:22] 16.
[1:08:23] >> Yeah.
[1:08:24] >> You go back to comedy at 20 years old
[1:08:26] and from 20 to your first special is 15
[1:08:29] years.
[1:08:30] >> Now, most people don't realize things
[1:08:32] take this long because we, you know,
[1:08:34] we're on Instagram and we see just the
[1:08:36] sort of end result and we assume you
[1:08:38] must have been always funny. So, we sort
[1:08:39] of discount the hard work and the
[1:08:41] repetitions and the you figuring out,
[1:08:43] okay, you'd finally cracked white
[1:08:44] audiences, but you're not funny
[1:08:46] with black audiences. So that's a whole
[1:08:47] another sort of transformation that
[1:08:49] needs to take place. And I just tend to
[1:08:51] think that when we think about success,
[1:08:53] for whatever reason, we think it's
[1:08:55] quick. And because of that, again, when
[1:08:58] it's not quick for us, we go, well, it
[1:09:00] must not be for me or this industry must
[1:09:02] not be for me. And that's what I I love
[1:09:04] when I, you know, hear stories like
[1:09:06] yours, cuz if I told any, I think, well,
[1:09:08] if I told a lot of young people, by the
[1:09:09] way, it's going to take you 15 years
[1:09:13] to get your special. I'm not sure how
[1:09:16] many people might sign up for that.
[1:09:18] >> If we're being honest, if you'd have
[1:09:19] told me that, I probably wouldn't have
[1:09:23] continued. I didn't see it like, "Oh,
[1:09:25] I'm just getting into this at 25 and
[1:09:28] it's going to be 35 before I even
[1:09:31] qualify. Every time I would come to God
[1:09:34] and say specifically,
[1:09:37] I need something to happen,"
[1:09:40] it would happen. That was probably the
[1:09:43] most surprising part of the book is you
[1:09:45] can literally see that I'm not doing
[1:09:49] anything special in these circumstances.
[1:09:52] Something unseen is taking me out of
[1:09:54] this situation and putting me over here.
[1:09:57] And if I do a good job, so be it. But if
[1:10:00] that doesn't work, I'm being put in
[1:10:03] another situation and given another
[1:10:05] opportunity. And um yeah, I've just been
[1:10:08] handled with such great care. It it it
[1:10:11] looks like, yeah, you did this 15 years
[1:10:14] before you made it. No, I was being
[1:10:16] successful every day. Every day that I
[1:10:19] was able to be a comedian and somehow
[1:10:24] make enough to live for today and then
[1:10:27] go on to the next show. I was more sure
[1:10:31] this was part of my destiny because I'm
[1:10:35] hitting the milestones sometimes so
[1:10:38] fast. Like I moved to Los Angeles
[1:10:43] and New Year's that just happened for
[1:10:45] 1999. We're going into the year 2000 and
[1:10:47] I'm saying, "All right, I'm going to
[1:10:49] move to LA. I'm going to get on TV.
[1:10:53] Um, I'm going to make myself a real
[1:10:55] actor and I'm going to start going on
[1:10:57] these auditions and I'm going to get a
[1:10:59] movie.
[1:11:00] >> And did you get rejected?
[1:11:02] >> No, all of it happened the first year
[1:11:06] I'm there. The first year I'm in LA, I'm
[1:11:09] on Comic View and so I'm on TV and then
[1:11:14] I'm a legitimate actor on sitcoms when I
[1:11:18] get there. And then my first audition is
[1:11:21] Friday after next and I get the first
[1:11:24] audition. Like everything just kept
[1:11:27] happening in a positive way and
[1:11:30] specifically what I had privately been
[1:11:34] asking for.
[1:11:35] >> Did you think you were going to be
[1:11:36] great? You moved to LA, you start
[1:11:38] getting these opportunities. In your
[1:11:39] head, were you manifesting greatness?
[1:11:41] Did you think of yourself as being a
[1:11:43] great or were you just so focused on the
[1:11:44] pedals?
[1:11:45] >> I would have never said great. You never
[1:11:47] would have
[1:11:48] >> said great. No. Still to this day, like
[1:11:51] I don't I don't view myself
[1:11:55] like that. Like we're all special. Like
[1:11:59] we all have the potential of greatness.
[1:12:03] And some people are cheated out of it
[1:12:06] just because of their circumstance or
[1:12:08] because of whatever, you know. But I
[1:12:12] believe that we all have the same
[1:12:14] potential. My job was trying to find out
[1:12:17] what it was for me.
[1:12:19] >> Were you scared of losing what you had?
[1:12:22] Sometimes people that come from the
[1:12:23] places you come from have a bit of a
[1:12:24] scarcity bias once they've seen the
[1:12:27] bottom. They either kind of go two ways
[1:12:28] often. They they're not scared of the
[1:12:30] bottom anymore or they have a scarcity
[1:12:32] bias where they work so hard because
[1:12:34] they realize it could all be taken away.
[1:12:37] I'm wondering what what camp you're in
[1:12:38] in that regard.
[1:12:39] >> Yeah. I never saw anything got get taken
[1:12:42] away. I always saw that um to the victor
[1:12:47] goes the spoils. And in my research, it
[1:12:50] was always the person who had worked the
[1:12:54] hardest while people weren't looking,
[1:12:56] who had been planning when they didn't
[1:12:59] know they were planning, when they had
[1:13:02] acted like the practice was as important
[1:13:06] as the work itself. It seemed to me like
[1:13:09] those were the people that progressed no
[1:13:11] matter
[1:13:13] what we were discussing. And so, um, I
[1:13:17] knew who the comedy greats were. And I
[1:13:19] didn't envision ever being with them. I
[1:13:24] just knew who the middle of the road and
[1:13:28] the mediocre people were, and I was
[1:13:31] determined to not be one of them.
[1:13:34] through that period up until your first
[1:13:36] special, you become a father. Lots of
[1:13:40] things happen in your life. You know, I
[1:13:41] was reading about how many times you got
[1:13:43] arrested. It says you went to jail 30
[1:13:45] times in total in your life roughly for
[1:13:47] gun charges, for drug marijuana charges.
[1:13:50] Um, you get this special at 35 years
[1:13:52] old. Who paid for that special?
[1:13:55] >> I did.
[1:13:55] >> You paid for it yourself?
[1:13:57] >> Yeah, I paid for the next eight.
[1:14:00] >> Is that typical that you pay for your
[1:14:03] own specials?
[1:14:04] I thought you'd be given some sort of
[1:14:05] advance or
[1:14:07] >> I had met uh Prince Rogers Nelson
[1:14:11] before I ever had any type of job or
[1:14:15] knew what it was I was going to do for a
[1:14:18] living. And he was instrumental in my
[1:14:22] life just because he always wanted to
[1:14:25] discuss business. He always talked about
[1:14:28] business, uh, how important it was. And
[1:14:31] there were certain things he ingrained
[1:14:32] in me long before I knew I was going to
[1:14:36] be in entertainment. And part of that
[1:14:39] was his lesson was
[1:14:42] the thing that you're going to be most
[1:14:45] proud of yourself if you maintain,
[1:14:48] right?
[1:14:50] Is the thing that you already are before
[1:14:53] you get started.
[1:14:56] So what he told me was every artist, no
[1:15:00] matter how successful they are at any
[1:15:03] given point, what they really wish they
[1:15:06] could be is independent.
[1:15:10] And the problem is you started off 100%
[1:15:15] independent.
[1:15:17] You were the only person that believed
[1:15:19] in you and then you auctioned off parts
[1:15:24] of your independence and let other
[1:15:26] people take ownership in this thing
[1:15:29] because they believe in it more than you
[1:15:32] do and they'll put up the money and so
[1:15:34] on and so forth. So already before I had
[1:15:38] entered, I was determined
[1:15:41] that I would do a good enough job that
[1:15:45] if no one was beating down my door for
[1:15:48] these specials that they would still be
[1:15:51] worth something. And by me paying for
[1:15:54] it, I could make sure that we hired the
[1:15:56] right director, the right producer, that
[1:15:58] the venue was right. So many things that
[1:16:01] um sometimes aren't perfect in standup.
[1:16:04] I could make those things perfect with
[1:16:06] the production and then just shoot
[1:16:09] myself. So when we did the first one,
[1:16:13] that's where when we were introduced
[1:16:15] into the world of licensing. So here was
[1:16:19] this situation where I could do it
[1:16:22] myself. I could license it to a HBO or a
[1:16:26] Comedy Central. They would pay me for it
[1:16:31] and I had already shot it. So I already
[1:16:34] am making a profit and then they were
[1:16:36] going to put it on their platform for a
[1:16:39] month and after a month it then reverts
[1:16:42] back to me and I could sell it in DVDs.
[1:16:46] I was so thankful that no one believed
[1:16:48] in me. I was so thankful that nobody
[1:16:51] wanted my product because it gave me the
[1:16:55] opportunity to have it. When someone
[1:16:58] becomes hot, the vultures show up in
[1:17:00] entertainment, in business, in, you
[1:17:02] know, in lots of different industries.
[1:17:04] And the vultures come in and they they
[1:17:05] try and tell you things. And as you were
[1:17:07] describing there, it can sometimes
[1:17:08] change your incentives. It can make you
[1:17:10] more short-term. It can mean that they
[1:17:12] take your IP away or whatever it might
[1:17:13] be. for people that are maybe earlier in
[1:17:16] their career and are potentially going
[1:17:19] to, you know, encounter the the
[1:17:21] vultures, the vultures that are in
[1:17:22] Hollywood or in business or whatever
[1:17:23] that are going to come in and promise
[1:17:25] them something, you know, give them a
[1:17:27] carrot now, but that might take
[1:17:29] something from them later. What what
[1:17:30] advice would you give to those people?
[1:17:32] You know, you've just given a wonderful
[1:17:33] piece of advice about maintaining
[1:17:35] independence as much as you can, betting
[1:17:36] on yourself. I heard that in there as
[1:17:38] well. Is there anything else people need
[1:17:40] to know about the way that sort of
[1:17:41] success plays out? And maybe maybe a
[1:17:44] mistake you made in this regard. Maybe
[1:17:46] I'm asking this for myself because you
[1:17:48] know I'm 34 and I now live in Los
[1:17:51] Angeles.
[1:17:53] People are giving me lots of
[1:17:54] opportunities,
[1:17:55] >> right? One of the most
[1:17:59] important things for my life is is
[1:18:03] selfworth.
[1:18:06] And I I would urge
[1:18:09] all artists
[1:18:11] to check your self-worth with yourself.
[1:18:17] If you're an artist of any kind,
[1:18:20] I want to know what are you worth.
[1:18:24] And I want you to be able to show me
[1:18:28] with your peer group
[1:18:31] what you're worth. Uh this is how it
[1:18:33] works. If you're a football player, you
[1:18:35] play this particular uh position and the
[1:18:39] people who play this position are
[1:18:41] getting these type of contracts. That's
[1:18:44] what the contract looks like for a guy
[1:18:46] who's a running back. And you you have
[1:18:48] that because you need to know
[1:18:52] what your self-worth is.
[1:18:54] >> I have to ask you a question here.
[1:18:55] >> Yeah. This kid,
[1:18:58] this kid was not someone from everything
[1:19:01] you've described to me that would one
[1:19:04] would assume had much selfworth because
[1:19:06] you were in an environment where you
[1:19:08] were treated in such a way where one
[1:19:10] might conclude that they're they're not
[1:19:13] worthy but but it seems like you
[1:19:16] understood your selfworth as an adult.
[1:19:19] And I say this because there'll be many
[1:19:21] people who have had their self-worth
[1:19:22] removed from them in their early
[1:19:23] experiences. It could have been a
[1:19:24] teacher that said something, a
[1:19:26] circumstance. So, they're listening now
[1:19:28] and going, "Yeah, but Cat, um, I don't
[1:19:31] think I'm worth much and I don't know
[1:19:33] how to pretend that I am."
[1:19:35] >> Yeah. I never
[1:19:37] I never I never spent one moment like
[1:19:39] that. And I would suggest you at home,
[1:19:43] um, don't allow yourself to think that
[1:19:47] anymore. Your brain is not
[1:19:51] as smart as you think it is. Even if you
[1:19:55] have to lie to yourself about what your
[1:19:58] selfworth is, that's what you should do.
[1:20:02] You are in control of what your
[1:20:04] selfworth is. And there are no worthless
[1:20:07] people. There are no worthless
[1:20:09] endeavors. And if you read more, you
[1:20:13] would know that you are more than
[1:20:16] qualified for what it is you're trying
[1:20:19] to do. And people far less qualified
[1:20:22] than you.
[1:20:24] People with far less talent, people with
[1:20:27] far less opportunity,
[1:20:30] have all been able to do this one thing.
[1:20:33] I was a in a better position than most
[1:20:37] because I wasn't basing my self-worth on
[1:20:40] myself.
[1:20:42] I was
[1:20:43] putting all of that on the God that I
[1:20:46] serve and putting in him in a position
[1:20:49] to where it was,
[1:20:52] yeah, if you're real and you love me and
[1:20:56] you know I love you too, then I don't
[1:20:59] think you're going to let me
[1:21:02] just get tossed about on the waves out
[1:21:05] here. I think that if I
[1:21:08] [sighs and gasps] um do my best to
[1:21:11] become a better person and to make
[1:21:13] better decisions, I think that that's
[1:21:16] going to be reciprocated.
[1:21:19] And I'm only asking that if I should
[1:21:22] ever get to a point where I don't know
[1:21:24] what to do, that I would be able to call
[1:21:27] on you, hey, you'll help me figure this
[1:21:29] thing out. And um [gasps and sighs]
[1:21:34] otherwise I personally wouldn't feel
[1:21:36] like God was real if it wasn't for the
[1:21:38] fact that I'm having these
[1:21:40] conversations. I'm asking for the things
[1:21:42] that I need and I'm getting answers to
[1:21:45] them and I'm following what I think the
[1:21:48] answer is saying. So you're able to see
[1:21:51] that all the mistakes were me. Like I
[1:21:54] thought the wrong thing. I was thinking
[1:21:56] the wrong thing. I wasn't aware of and I
[1:21:59] would just make the decisions. But
[1:22:01] you're not out here alone and you
[1:22:04] shouldn't feel that.
[1:22:06] >> You definitely don't have a victim
[1:22:07] mindset.
[1:22:09] >> Cuz I haven't I haven't been victimized.
[1:22:12] Like you you you
[1:22:15] can't do that and be winning all the
[1:22:17] time. And I'm literally winning all the
[1:22:21] time.
[1:22:22] >> Some people be thinking, Cat, listen.
[1:22:23] You described your childhood, a
[1:22:25] circumstance where you were born into a
[1:22:27] family where your parents didn't appear
[1:22:28] to care about you. Some might say you
[1:22:30] have ample opportunity to have a victim
[1:22:32] mindset.
[1:22:36] >> You were not the best of cards in the
[1:22:38] earliest context.
[1:22:40] >> Right? But remind yourself, I'm basing
[1:22:44] everything on these books I'm reading.
[1:22:46] And in these books that I'm reading,
[1:22:49] nobody did. I didn't read not one book
[1:22:52] of hey this person had everything and it
[1:22:55] was all given to them and everything was
[1:22:57] fine and uh there was never any turmoil
[1:23:00] or strife in their life and boy they
[1:23:02] turned out great. I never read that
[1:23:05] book. I've seen it go the opposite way.
[1:23:07] I've seen stories where this man is
[1:23:10] raised as a prince his whole life and
[1:23:13] feels like he has a great understanding
[1:23:18] of how the world is and then later finds
[1:23:21] out with the prince and the popper how
[1:23:25] circumstantial
[1:23:27] everything is that if you were in this
[1:23:29] situation what would you be then? Um
[1:23:32] yeah I had I had seen too much of that.
[1:23:34] I refuse to
[1:23:36] um look at the negative when the
[1:23:39] positive is so overwhelming.
[1:23:43] There should be a button just down below
[1:23:45] here. And if it says subscribed, you're
[1:23:47] already subscribed. If it says
[1:23:49] subscriber, that means you're not yet.
[1:23:51] And if you're not subscribed, please
[1:23:52] could you do us a favor and hit that
[1:23:53] button? It helps the show more than you
[1:23:55] know. And according to the algorithm,
[1:23:57] you're someone that watches our show,
[1:23:58] but you haven't yet hit that button.
[1:24:00] Thank you so much. One of the things
[1:24:01] that was sprung to my mind as you're
[1:24:02] describing your relationship with God is
[1:24:04] when I reflect on that early experience
[1:24:06] where
[1:24:08] >> many of the beatings that you said you
[1:24:10] got from your parents originated from
[1:24:11] you having a a dispute with the
[1:24:15] religious teachings that they were sort
[1:24:16] of projecting onto you. One might
[1:24:18] assume, and I think I assumed that that
[1:24:20] would mean you turned away from religion
[1:24:22] and God as an as an adult, but you're
[1:24:25] sat here with a massive uh cross around
[1:24:27] your neck talking about how God has
[1:24:29] guided you throughout your life. How do
[1:24:30] you how do I square those two things?
[1:24:33] >> Well, I I early on in my life
[1:24:36] [clears throat] made a separation
[1:24:38] between God and a relationship with him
[1:24:41] from religious practices completely. So
[1:24:46] I made a separation between religion
[1:24:50] >> Yeah.
[1:24:50] >> and a relationship with God. And I
[1:24:53] assumed that for whatever nationality or
[1:24:57] creed or race that the person was, their
[1:25:02] personal religion was their way of
[1:25:05] explaining and handling and dealing with
[1:25:09] a relationship with God. And um even as
[1:25:13] an adult, I found for the most part that
[1:25:17] um regardless of what someone's religion
[1:25:21] is,
[1:25:22] um the key thing is that in their
[1:25:26] religion, they are attempting to get the
[1:25:29] people that follow them to be better
[1:25:33] people. And I I learned from studying
[1:25:37] other religions,
[1:25:39] I I I just learned how much
[1:25:43] different religions are really agreeing
[1:25:45] with one another. There's not all of
[1:25:47] that much disagreement
[1:25:50] as far as what the goal is in religion.
[1:25:54] It it's really just
[1:25:57] acknowledging the fact that you have
[1:26:00] free will to make terrible decisions and
[1:26:02] to be an awful person and to do awful
[1:26:06] things to other people. But you would
[1:26:09] live a much better life if you had a
[1:26:12] list of things that you don't do that
[1:26:15] lines that you won't cross. And if you
[1:26:17] feel an obligation to your creator, then
[1:26:21] there are ways that you show that giving
[1:26:24] back to others and a heightened level of
[1:26:28] humanity is what all religious people
[1:26:31] are after. So I I respect that even
[1:26:34] though I don't join the religion.
[1:26:37] >> Are you religious? Do you are you part
[1:26:39] you're not part of a religion?
[1:26:40] >> No.
[1:26:40] >> Okay, makes sense. No, just because
[1:26:42] after studying
[1:26:45] the religions, there's parts I agree
[1:26:47] with with all of them. At the end of the
[1:26:50] day, these are people and most of these
[1:26:52] people are just trying to be better
[1:26:54] people. And religion is what they're
[1:26:57] using to do that. But I I couldn't
[1:27:01] imagine where the world would be if we
[1:27:02] didn't have that, if there weren't
[1:27:04] people actively trying to be better. So,
[1:27:06] no, I separate that. Yeah, that's been
[1:27:09] helpful for me. How do you think about
[1:27:12] risk? Taking risks with your creativity.
[1:27:15] There's this video that I literally sent
[1:27:17] before we sat down to my team um where I
[1:27:19] sat here with Rick Rubin and it talks
[1:27:21] about risk and I wanted to get your
[1:27:24] perspective on whether you agree.
[1:27:26] >> I think the risk and the success go hand
[1:27:29] in hand. It's only through the risk that
[1:27:32] the greatness is shown.
[1:27:35] So, it's not possible to sort of produce
[1:27:37] more of the same and still be considered
[1:27:38] a great
[1:27:40] I don't think so.
[1:27:43] I don't know. It It doesn't seem right
[1:27:46] to me. It feels like there's this edge.
[1:27:50] There's a tight rope and you're walking
[1:27:52] on the tight rope and if you make it,
[1:27:56] it's really good.
[1:27:59] >> So factual. Such a gem. In my particular
[1:28:02] case, I found that
[1:28:06] the only risk is betting on something
[1:28:10] where I'm not involved.
[1:28:13] So, there's a risk in me betting on the
[1:28:16] Dallas Cowboys versus the Green Bay
[1:28:18] Packers because I have no bearing on
[1:28:23] what the Packers are going to do and I
[1:28:25] have no bearing on what the Cowboys are
[1:28:28] going to do and I can't influence it in
[1:28:31] any way. That's risky.
[1:28:34] Betting on myself,
[1:28:37] zero risk.
[1:28:39] Zero risk.
[1:28:41] Whatever I need him to do in the
[1:28:44] situation,
[1:28:46] that's what he's going to do. He's going
[1:28:48] to come through. If he's got to outwork,
[1:28:50] he's going to outwork. If he's got to
[1:28:52] apologize, he'll apologize. If he's got
[1:28:54] to be vicious, he'll be vicious. If he's
[1:28:57] got to maneuver, he'll maneuver.
[1:29:01] I
[1:29:02] only have one betting on myself and my
[1:29:08] God. I don't consider it a risk if what
[1:29:11] I'm betting on is myself.
[1:29:14] >> Have you always been like that or has
[1:29:16] that confidence grown and compounded
[1:29:19] through time, experience, and evidence?
[1:29:21] >> I'm only basing it on the evidence. I
[1:29:24] didn't just agree that I have to get 300
[1:29:28] nos to get 30 yeses. I That wasn't what
[1:29:32] I agreed upon. It was me going as far as
[1:29:36] I can to find out how many nos does it
[1:29:40] take. I learned from the losses far more
[1:29:44] than I learn from the victories. But
[1:29:47] again, that's what makes it not a risk
[1:29:50] because I found that regardless of how
[1:29:52] it turns out. I'm curious if I sat
[1:29:56] 20-year-old cat here that just won that
[1:29:57] comedy show at in Oklahoma, whether that
[1:30:00] cat would have had the aura and the
[1:30:02] confidence of this one. And I think the
[1:30:04] reason I care about that question is
[1:30:06] because that shows me what the journey
[1:30:08] has given you. And the journey changes
[1:30:10] people. It reinforces things in them.
[1:30:12] Ideas that were like made of polyarene
[1:30:14] become principles that are like made of
[1:30:16] titanium.
[1:30:17] >> No, they'll they'll tell you that I I
[1:30:19] always acted like this.
[1:30:21] >> Okay.
[1:30:21] >> Like that's the whole thing. Like I
[1:30:23] haven't changed anything. Like later on
[1:30:25] they would say, "Yeah, he started
[1:30:27] wearing suits because you know people
[1:30:30] were wearing big suits at the No, no,
[1:30:32] no. I can show you me at five if I had
[1:30:33] on a suit. It's the same guy. Same look
[1:30:35] on the face, same everything like like
[1:30:38] Yeah. I made
[1:30:40] very little personal growth where it was
[1:30:44] unnecessary.
[1:30:46] I thought there was a lot of wonderful
[1:30:48] things about myself even younger and I
[1:30:51] wanted to maintain those things. I
[1:30:53] wanted to keep my curiosity. I wanted to
[1:30:56] keep the fact that I didn't just believe
[1:30:59] something just because I heard it. That
[1:31:01] I thought that research was the answer.
[1:31:05] You know, I promise you 20year-old cat
[1:31:08] was um outwardly just as confident. like
[1:31:13] I had security as a comedian
[1:31:17] when I was making less than $10,000 a
[1:31:20] year doing standup. [laughter]
[1:31:22] I'm saying I was never the guy that
[1:31:25] didn't believe. I always believed. But
[1:31:29] what I'm saying is that that confidence
[1:31:32] was based on what I believed in, not
[1:31:35] based upon what I was. When you look
[1:31:38] back on key moments in your career, do
[1:31:39] you see how a cat without the confidence
[1:31:42] might have ended up in a different
[1:31:43] place?
[1:31:45] No. I say that because it's so obvious
[1:31:47] to me. I don't even, you know, I wasn't
[1:31:49] there, but I go, someone with that level
[1:31:51] of confidence and belief is going to
[1:31:52] open doors that would have otherwise
[1:31:54] appeared to be concrete walls to someone
[1:31:56] else.
[1:31:57] >> Right. Yeah. No. And I I understand that
[1:31:59] it it might look like confidence, but um
[1:32:04] fear of failure should not be confused
[1:32:06] with confidence.
[1:32:08] I had an overwhelming fear of failure. I
[1:32:12] I thought failure is what happens when
[1:32:15] you don't work hard enough. I was going
[1:32:17] to be a rudderless ship if this doesn't
[1:32:21] work. So, this has to work. Like every
[1:32:24] >> there was no plan B.
[1:32:25] >> Everything is counting on this. And this
[1:32:27] is the best thing that's ever presented
[1:32:31] itself in my life. I know from these
[1:32:33] books that you don't get unlimited
[1:32:36] chances.
[1:32:38] >> Did you take holidays?
[1:32:40] >> I was never in a position to
[1:32:43] vacay.
[1:32:45] >> But you got special after special after
[1:32:46] special,
[1:32:47] >> right? But I went 10, 15 years before
[1:32:50] the first milestone.
[1:32:52] So, as soon as you cross into the part
[1:32:54] where, oh, I'm really in this business.
[1:32:56] Now, it becomes a whole different set of
[1:32:59] criteria, now I'm guaranteed 15 minutes
[1:33:02] of fame. Nobody gets a chance to decide
[1:33:05] when they're going to be on and when
[1:33:07] they're washed. It just happens. And so,
[1:33:10] my job is to see if I can get as much
[1:33:13] time out of this 15 minutes as possible.
[1:33:16] And there are certain things that I
[1:33:17] can't afford to do. I can't afford to
[1:33:20] tell my whole story in my first few
[1:33:22] years of standup. Or else if I actually
[1:33:26] become something, what story am I even
[1:33:29] going to have to tell? There's nothing
[1:33:32] wonderful or complimentary or edifying
[1:33:36] about 35 arrests and going to jail 35
[1:33:41] times.
[1:33:42] But if I told you at the end that all
[1:33:45] the charges were gonna be dropped for
[1:33:47] everything and you would never
[1:33:51] be in prison after 35 like they will all
[1:33:55] go away. Well then I'm in then. But
[1:33:59] again,
[1:34:01] you don't know till the end. But I was
[1:34:03] cognizant that whether we like it or
[1:34:05] not, we're all leaving a story. I had
[1:34:08] just read so many of them that it was in
[1:34:10] my head. No, every everybody's life is a
[1:34:13] story. Like somebody's later on going to
[1:34:16] be looking at you to see what you did in
[1:34:18] certain circumstances and how it went
[1:34:20] for you. There's something really
[1:34:22] powerful that um reminds me of um part
[1:34:24] of my earlier journey when I was left
[1:34:26] university and I was shoplifting uh
[1:34:28] pizzas to feed myself and I remember
[1:34:30] recording this video on this old smashed
[1:34:32] up phone of like my objective disperse.
[1:34:34] So, I'd open the fridge and go, "Look,
[1:34:35] there's nothing in it." And then I'd
[1:34:36] record it and then I'd show these baiff
[1:34:38] letters that I had on my desk and I was
[1:34:39] recording it because and then when you
[1:34:41] look at my diary, which I kept on these
[1:34:42] Facebook notes,
[1:34:43] >> I am telling myself
[1:34:46] I'm telling myself that I've been asked
[1:34:48] to record this because there's a
[1:34:49] documentary crew that are going to make
[1:34:50] a story about this someday. And when I
[1:34:52] look back on that, it wasn't true, but
[1:34:54] that's what I'd said to myself. And when
[1:34:56] you look back on that moment um and you
[1:34:58] describe the objective nature of like
[1:34:59] this is a shitty situation. Objectively
[1:35:02] you being in the back of that park with
[1:35:05] several homeless people objectively a
[1:35:07] shitty situation.
[1:35:09] You um you realize that there's two ways
[1:35:12] you can take a shitty situation. You can
[1:35:14] see it as the destination or part of a
[1:35:17] story.
[1:35:18] >> And if it's part of a story, it exists
[1:35:21] on an arc. And that I think can be
[1:35:24] liberating and allow you to act in such
[1:35:26] a way where you don't fall into despair
[1:35:28] or victimhood. And that's kind of what
[1:35:29] I've heard through the lines of what
[1:35:30] you're saying is because you read so
[1:35:32] many books, you understood narrative and
[1:35:34] that the most objectively difficult
[1:35:36] parts of your life were actually just
[1:35:37] part of a narrative. You can make hell
[1:35:39] out of heaven or heaven out of hell
[1:35:41] based on the narrative in your own head.
[1:35:43] >> Yep. And and I had there were these
[1:35:46] books. I'm not sure what they were
[1:35:47] called, but they were these like
[1:35:49] destination books where they would give
[1:35:52] you the story of the characters, right?
[1:35:55] And they would get to a crossroads and
[1:35:57] they would say, "Okay, so it's set up.
[1:36:00] He can either go south
[1:36:03] and do this or he can go north and make
[1:36:07] this decision, but he can't do both."
[1:36:09] Mhm.
[1:36:10] >> And I that was a great joy for me is to
[1:36:14] pick one, see where that ended up and
[1:36:17] then go back and read it again with the
[1:36:21] different decisions to see how, you
[1:36:23] know, and I got so much out of that that
[1:36:27] I started incorporating that into my
[1:36:30] decision making process. I never want to
[1:36:33] make a move unless I know what is the
[1:36:36] best case scenario for this situation so
[1:36:40] that if I get there I can know that
[1:36:42] that's what that is and what's the worst
[1:36:45] possible thing that could happen in this
[1:36:48] situation and if I can know both of
[1:36:51] those going in I feel much better about
[1:36:56] any of the undertakings. So, um, in
[1:36:58] order to keep myself honest in these
[1:37:01] decision making processes, because
[1:37:04] sometimes you just are human and weak
[1:37:06] and you make the wrong decision.
[1:37:09] If it ever was in my head and I didn't
[1:37:11] know what decision to make, I would just
[1:37:14] immediately go, okay, what does the
[1:37:17] black superhero do in this case? And
[1:37:20] whatever that answer is, do that. Does
[1:37:24] he go into it with his head up as if
[1:37:27] it's going to work out fine and then
[1:37:29] it's able to look like his faith was a
[1:37:31] reward? Yeah,
[1:37:32] >> it's good life advice for everybody
[1:37:34] listening.
[1:37:35] >> Yeah, it works.
[1:37:36] >> What would the superhero do right now if
[1:37:39] this was a movie?
[1:37:40] >> I did it.
[1:37:42] >> I did it already.
[1:37:43] >> And you are someone clearly that
[1:37:46] believes they're holding the pencil and
[1:37:47] writing their own story.
[1:37:48] >> Mhm.
[1:37:49] >> Again, this is this is not necessarily
[1:37:52] typical. Some people believe they're on
[1:37:54] a roller coaster and they're strapped in
[1:37:55] with a seat belt and it's going up and
[1:37:56] then down and left and right. And then
[1:37:58] some people believe they can author
[1:37:59] their story and that's quite clearly
[1:38:00] what you've done throughout your career
[1:38:02] cuz you've been the author,
[1:38:06] right? How important are the people you
[1:38:09] choose to work with? It's the family you
[1:38:12] do get to pick. With your family, you
[1:38:14] don't really get any say so. You just
[1:38:17] come into this world and then you're
[1:38:18] introduced to the people that make up
[1:38:21] your family. And in our business, that
[1:38:25] behind the scenes family can be the
[1:38:29] agency used to take you out of the
[1:38:33] equation or what is used to help
[1:38:38] solidify you. You know, we all know you
[1:38:41] don't want Yes, men. You don't want Are
[1:38:43] they Are you being threatened? Um, I
[1:38:46] still have some time to go, but I'm
[1:38:47] being told your PR team are going to
[1:38:48] come and pull you out.
[1:38:49] >> No, don't worry about that.
[1:38:51] >> They're saying five minutes.
[1:38:52] >> We're almost done. Yeah. Yeah, we know
[1:38:54] the time. We got the time.
[1:38:55] >> You're being threatened. [laughter]
[1:38:59] >> I saw you blink twice. I know.
[1:39:01] [laughter]
[1:39:03] >> So,
[1:39:05] >> right.
[1:39:06] >> Just a gun came around the [laughter]
[1:39:08] >> Right.
[1:39:10] Yeah. I I'm just just know I'm I'm
[1:39:14] appreciative to be here with you and and
[1:39:18] you having me and I and I know how
[1:39:20] difficult what it is you do is so I'm
[1:39:23] I'm grateful.
[1:39:24] >> What I think about is representing your
[1:39:27] story in the best possible way that I
[1:39:28] can in all of its shades. So that's why
[1:39:31] I like uh that's why we take the time
[1:39:33] cuz you know I think you know you all
[1:39:35] know good stories take time and they
[1:39:37] need space. Yeah.
[1:39:38] >> So, it's I'm always at a bit of a my
[1:39:40] style of interviewing is always at a bit
[1:39:42] of a a challenge when there's not enough
[1:39:44] space,
[1:39:45] >> you know, like because you said you've
[1:39:46] watched, so I like to listen seriously.
[1:39:48] >> Right. But the the superhero would tell
[1:39:52] you take all the space you need.
[1:39:54] [laughter]
[1:39:55] >> Do what you do. Don't don't don't let
[1:39:57] these people pressure you [laughter] by
[1:39:59] this schedule of mine. Has no bearing on
[1:40:02] anything.
[1:40:04] This is it.
[1:40:06] >> Right. You know what I'm trying to just
[1:40:08] leave the audience with is there's lots
[1:40:10] of people and there's specifically lots
[1:40:11] of young black men and young black women
[1:40:14] that I know will listen to the show
[1:40:15] because they they can relate and
[1:40:17] relatability is a huge part of
[1:40:18] inspiration. That's what the science
[1:40:20] says and what we you all know.
[1:40:22] >> And I want to I want to give them sort
[1:40:24] of an understanding of how to navigate
[1:40:27] from where they are now. The obstacles
[1:40:29] that they're going to experience in
[1:40:30] their hero's journey which is going to
[1:40:31] be rejection. It's going to be
[1:40:33] accidentally working with the wrong
[1:40:34] co-founder or agent or person. It is
[1:40:37] going to be we talked a lot when we've
[1:40:39] covered that part which is it's going to
[1:40:40] be a bit of patience. You're going to
[1:40:42] have to become a master at something and
[1:40:43] that's going to take time and sacrifice.
[1:40:46] What else do they need cat as they go on
[1:40:48] their own hero's journey?
[1:40:50] >> I'm just so proud of um anybody that can
[1:40:54] take something out of this. It means it
[1:40:57] means you're doing a good job if you can
[1:41:00] find inspiration
[1:41:02] anywhere. Like I said, find you
[1:41:05] something to believe in
[1:41:08] that isn't you. Find something that you
[1:41:11] can uh count on. And I I found that
[1:41:15] early and I'm thankful that I found it
[1:41:18] early. Like everything that I learned
[1:41:21] about the universe and our planet and
[1:41:24] everything I learned
[1:41:26] made me believe that we were created by
[1:41:31] an entity that was smarter than us,
[1:41:35] cared about us, and that looked way far
[1:41:40] in the future to make sure that our
[1:41:44] personal needs were met. I don't think
[1:41:46] that they've
[1:41:49] found a location in the universe
[1:41:52] that's better for people than Earth is.
[1:41:56] And I don't think anything is
[1:42:00] coincidence. I don't even believe in
[1:42:03] coincidence because I've not seen the
[1:42:05] evidence of coincidence. And I I would
[1:42:07] suggest that you not believe in
[1:42:09] coincidence either. I I believe that
[1:42:12] everything is part of a greater plan.
[1:42:15] The blessing of it is the more you
[1:42:18] believe it, the realer it becomes. And
[1:42:21] you can really track that in your own
[1:42:23] life. So that's about all I have.
[1:42:27] >> John and Brenda,
[1:42:28] >> they're still alive.
[1:42:30] >> Yes, absolutely.
[1:42:31] >> They've seen you become
[1:42:34] a global success story.
[1:42:37] >> Has there ever been a conversation with
[1:42:39] John and Brenda, your parents? about
[1:42:41] your success. Are you in touch with
[1:42:43] them? How do you feel about them today?
[1:42:45] >> Well, as I said, I've um I've forgiven
[1:42:49] them and they didn't ask for that.
[1:42:51] >> They didn't ask for the forgiveness.
[1:42:53] >> Correct.
[1:42:54] >> You gave it to them.
[1:42:55] >> Yes. Because forgiving people makes
[1:42:58] things easier for you, not easier for
[1:43:01] the people. Um Yeah. Forgiveness is
[1:43:05] something that you're allowed to do
[1:43:07] selfishly. Um, you're allowed to forgive
[1:43:10] people that have hurt you. Just
[1:43:12] understanding that we all make mistakes
[1:43:15] and we all heir. Now that I'm older, I
[1:43:18] see how much pressure must have been on
[1:43:21] them and how easy it would be to make a
[1:43:24] bad decision.
[1:43:25] >> What do they think of your success?
[1:43:28] >> I don't I don't uh
[1:43:32] I don't care,
[1:43:34] honestly. Um,
[1:43:37] I did I didn't I didn't think they
[1:43:40] shouldn't be beating a celebrity. I
[1:43:43] thought they shouldn't have been
[1:43:46] treating a kid like that.
[1:43:49] Just a kid, you know. So, had nothing to
[1:43:53] do with where what I've achieved. And I
[1:43:56] didn't I haven't been needing their
[1:43:59] approval on anything. And I don't need
[1:44:02] for them to be proud of me or any of
[1:44:07] that. I'm I'm thankful that, you know, I
[1:44:09] got brought into this world.
[1:44:11] >> And you're not in contact with them even
[1:44:12] though you have forgiven them.
[1:44:14] >> We we've been in contact uh throughout
[1:44:17] my life. I've been available if they
[1:44:19] needed me. And I still have kids and now
[1:44:21] they they're grandparents and now I'm a
[1:44:23] grandfather as well. So I couldn't com
[1:44:26] them completely out of my life. But um
[1:44:31] my decision at 13
[1:44:34] uh is the same as my decision at 55.
[1:44:38] >> Your demeanor is different today versus
[1:44:40] other interviews I've seen you in. You
[1:44:43] seem a little bit more stoic.
[1:44:45] >> Um I'm not a fan of the subject matter.
[1:44:48] >> Which subject matter?
[1:44:50] >> Like I'm not my I'm not my biggest fan.
[1:44:53] Like I don't I'm not head over heels
[1:44:56] about Cat Williams and love to talk
[1:44:58] about him and see pictures of him and
[1:45:00] >> and you knew that was happen today.
[1:45:02] >> Well, I'm saying that's not my preferred
[1:45:05] subject matter. Generally, when you see
[1:45:07] me, I'm talking about other things.
[1:45:10] [laughter]
[1:45:12] This this is this is painful primarily,
[1:45:16] you know, and um yeah, because I don't I
[1:45:21] need to tell my story, but I don't need
[1:45:24] a young person
[1:45:27] hearing this to think that any of these
[1:45:29] were smart decisions. Um, we certainly
[1:45:33] don't live in a world where anyone as a
[1:45:36] teenager could afford to leave home and
[1:45:39] just be out in the world hoping God is
[1:45:43] [laughter]
[1:45:44] blessing you. Like it's a terrible situ
[1:45:47] all of the decisions horrible. Um, but
[1:45:51] I'm telling the story so that you
[1:45:54] understand that if you didn't have
[1:45:56] anything in the world except your belief
[1:46:00] in God, you could still make it,
[1:46:03] >> you know. So, again, I I yeah, I have to
[1:46:07] be kind of stoic because I'm not I don't
[1:46:10] enjoy bashing
[1:46:13] my family members even if they are
[1:46:16] deserving of it. I don't get anything
[1:46:18] out of that.
[1:46:19] >> And does it still hurt?
[1:46:22] You use the word painful.
[1:46:27] >> I just want to say nice things about him
[1:46:29] and I would if that were possible.
[1:46:32] >> Cat, we have a closing tradition on this
[1:46:33] podcast where the last guest leaves a
[1:46:34] question for the next not knowing who
[1:46:36] they're leaving it for.
[1:46:36] >> Got it. And the question left for you is
[1:46:39] what is the most important piece of
[1:46:41] advice that you would offer to the young
[1:46:48] time. Time is the most
[1:46:53] important thing in your journey. The
[1:46:55] fact that you don't know how much time
[1:46:57] you've been allotted in this life. You
[1:47:00] don't know how many years that equals
[1:47:02] out to. Um, you are only in charge of
[1:47:06] what you do with your time and you can
[1:47:11] reset this life as many times as you
[1:47:14] need to. That is in your control. You
[1:47:16] can restart. You can go a different
[1:47:20] direction. You can try things. I found
[1:47:24] that
[1:47:26] the only regret you have later in life
[1:47:29] is the things you didn't give a chance,
[1:47:32] the opportunities you didn't go for, the
[1:47:34] things you didn't try. And then there's
[1:47:37] a chance that you'll never find out what
[1:47:40] you were meant to do. You never find
[1:47:42] your purpose in life. And I found that
[1:47:45] those are the only people that end up
[1:47:48] unhappy, not people who might have
[1:47:52] chosen the wrong path or any of that.
[1:47:55] And I in the reading of books, I found
[1:47:58] out that you can make it at odd times in
[1:48:01] your life. There are hundreds of stories
[1:48:03] of people that never did one wonderful
[1:48:07] or notable thing in their life until
[1:48:10] they were 65 years old. And I tried to
[1:48:14] find what kept them going all the way
[1:48:18] being a failure all the way through 64
[1:48:22] and then at 65 now you finally find out
[1:48:26] because time is all you got and you have
[1:48:29] nothing better to do than to find out
[1:48:31] your real selfworth and where your life
[1:48:34] should go. So by all means treat every
[1:48:37] day as close to the last one as you can.
[1:48:40] Um, if that means the interview has to
[1:48:42] go two hours longer than scheduled, so
[1:48:46] what? You deal with that as you're in
[1:48:49] there. And if it's time to do healing,
[1:48:52] do it even if it's painful.
[1:48:55] >> Okay.
[1:48:56] >> Thank you. The book, um, I'm going to
[1:48:57] link it below. Highly recommend you read
[1:48:59] it because it is it's confronting and
[1:49:00] vulnerable and inspiring in all the same
[1:49:02] measures and it really is truly a hero's
[1:49:04] journey. Um, so please do go and buy the
[1:49:06] book. I'm going to link it below. Uh, I
[1:49:09] I'm can't wait for you to sign this to
[1:49:10] me because it's one of my favorites. But
[1:49:12] also, Cat has a podcast called According
[1:49:14] to Cat, which is launching. Um, and I'm
[1:49:16] going to put a link to that below as
[1:49:18] well, which is really really exciting.
[1:49:19] Um, I don't need the competition in this
[1:49:21] medium.
[1:49:22] >> And I and I shall not be, don't worry.
[1:49:24] >> But it's I've heard I've heard some
[1:49:26] things about it. It sounds amazing, as
[1:49:27] is the book. So, Cat, thank you so much
[1:49:28] for your generosity. I really really
[1:49:30] appreciate it.
[1:49:31] >> Um, and I can't wait to see your hero's
[1:49:32] journey continue.
[1:49:33] >> Thank you. YouTube have this new crazy
[1:49:35] algorithm where they know exactly what
[1:49:37] video you would like to watch next based
[1:49:39] on AI and all of your viewing behavior.
[1:49:42] And the algorithm says that this video
[1:49:44] is the perfect video for you. It's
[1:49:46] different for everybody looking right
[1:49:48] now. Check this video out and I bet you
[1:49:50] you might love