Transcript
[0:01] This episode of the Oprah podcast is
[0:03] presented by our partner Geico. Today
[0:07] we're talking about the specific
[0:08] difficulties in raising daughters in
[0:11] today's world.
[0:12] >> Parents [music] are in a new era now.
[0:14] >> It's not the same.
[0:15] >> It's not the same. We have to become
[0:17] humble and begin [music] listening to
[0:19] what our children are telling us. And
[0:21] they are in pain. They're feeling the
[0:23] pressure of knowing too much too soon,
[0:25] of being too overexposed and too over
[0:28] sexualized. Your daughter now is on a
[0:31] platform [music]
[0:33] where it's a global curation of
[0:36] overperfection being presented to her as
[0:38] an ideal. Right now with the filters,
[0:41] now with the like button, she's living
[0:43] disconnected, disembodied, dislocated.
[0:46] And that girl is easy prey for
[0:49] predation.
[0:51] >> Instead of wanting your daughters to be
[0:52] good, you want your daughters to be
[0:54] heard. We want to train them to use
[0:56] their voice and not just be good.
[0:59] >> Yes. So their voice that speaks to them
[1:01] first. We must allow our daughters to
[1:04] lead the way for their own
[1:06] self-direction, for their own destiny.
[1:11] >> Hello. It is just my pleasure to welcome
[1:14] you once again to the Oprah podcast. I'm
[1:16] so glad to be back on my front porch
[1:17] with one of my favorite parenting
[1:20] experts, uh, spiritual leader, teacher,
[1:23] worldrenowned clinical psychologist, and
[1:26] New York Times best-selling author, Dr.
[1:28] Shafali. On a prior episode, we talked
[1:31] about the new challenges that so many of
[1:34] you as parents are facing raising
[1:37] children in this modern era. And we
[1:39] focused on Dr. Shafali's book called
[1:42] Raising Conscious Sons: Cultivating
[1:45] Purpose, Connection, and Inner Power in
[1:46] a Chaotic World. We can all feel how
[1:49] necessary that book is. Check out that
[1:51] episode if you have not already. And
[1:54] now, today we're talking about the
[1:56] specific difficulties in raising
[1:58] daughters in today's world. Dr.
[2:01] Shafali's book is called Raising
[2:03] Conscious Daughters: Building
[2:06] Confidence, Courage, and Inner Power in
[2:09] an Anxious World. I think we can feel
[2:11] how much this book is needed also for
[2:14] our girls in the world. You had to do
[2:17] two. Why? I had to write two books
[2:20] because we are in a very unique
[2:22] unprecedented
[2:24] cultural turning point. And our children
[2:28] are being raised in a world that is
[2:31] increasingly misaligned to provide them
[2:34] the nourishment for their neurological,
[2:37] developmental, psychological, spiritual
[2:40] needs. And I felt I had to write two
[2:43] books because boys and girls and this is
[2:46] not about gender dichotomy. This is not
[2:48] about a binary. Of course, you can read
[2:51] one book and see more of your son in the
[2:53] daughters and vice versa. But I wrote
[2:55] two books because boys and girls go
[2:58] through very specific, precise and
[3:02] different developmental trajectories,
[3:05] hormonal landscapes, and culture
[3:07] exploits them very differently.
[3:10] >> Wow. I asked you this on the other
[3:13] episode before. or give us a quick
[3:15] refresher for those who are not familiar
[3:18] with what it means to be a conscious
[3:21] parent because we I we first became
[3:25] friends. I was introduced to your book
[3:27] conscious parenting and I was so struck
[3:30] by that because I'd done so much work
[3:32] with echarttole and you to me seemed
[3:34] like the echarttolei for parenting and
[3:38] turns out that's what you'd said to your
[3:39] publisher.
[3:40] >> Yes.
[3:41] >> When you presented that book. Yes,
[3:43] Echart talks about presence, attunement,
[3:46] stillness, and recognizing the
[3:49] projections from our own wounds. Well,
[3:52] who does that more than parents? We
[3:55] constantly project onto our children our
[3:58] unmet needs, our unfulfilled
[4:00] expectations, our fantasies, and we cast
[4:03] our children into our movie as if they
[4:05] were our object because they are ours.
[4:08] And so conscious parenting is a movement
[4:10] that is my answer to the toxicity of the
[4:14] traditional parenting model which treats
[4:17] children as our objects.
[4:18] >> Yeah. And parents are doing it and
[4:20] sometimes you know you hear those words.
[4:22] It feels like uh I'm sure a lot of
[4:25] parents uh didn't take it well at first
[4:28] when they were reading this about
[4:29] themselves and the conscious parent
[4:31] >> and they don't see themselves as
[4:34] creating a problem because they're doing
[4:36] it out of love. I who've never had my
[4:38] own children did this with I remember
[4:40] one of my uh girls from South Africa
[4:44] came to the United States. I remember
[4:45] the night uh I might have shared this
[4:48] with you before. I remember the night
[4:49] that she got into Welssley. Um and I
[4:54] always wanted to go to Welssley.
[4:55] >> She didn't want to go to Welsley, but I
[4:58] wanted to go to Welsley and I talked her
[5:00] into going to Welsley.
[5:02] >> And she ended up having a miserable
[5:04] time.
[5:05] >> Wow. uh feeling isolated and
[5:08] disconnected and never felt like like
[5:10] she belonged. And that was a huge
[5:12] turning point lesson for me in
[5:15] projecting what I wanted onto on on onto
[5:19] her. And I learned because I've now put
[5:21] over 800 girls through college
[5:24] >> is to let them live their lives and have
[5:26] their own will about whatever it is
[5:28] they're they choose.
[5:29] >> Yeah.
[5:30] >> And I have literally released it. I have
[5:32] surrendered whatever anyone becomes. I
[5:35] try to provide, you know, an
[5:37] opportunity, an open door.
[5:38] >> And so, and I learned that from you. I
[5:42] learned that from conscious parenting.
[5:44] >> Parents get so afraid to release trust
[5:47] and autonomy onto their children.
[5:50] >> Yes.
[5:50] >> Because they were not raised with
[5:52] autonomy, trust, and sovereignty. They
[5:54] were raised with control. And most of us
[5:56] are. So, we our love language is
[5:59] control. Is possession
[6:01] >> because we think we are supposed to.
[6:02] >> Because we think we're supposed. We
[6:03] don't know any other way. And we've
[6:05] never been tuned in to listen to our own
[6:07] sovereign spirit. So we don't know how
[6:09] to gift that to our children.
[6:11] >> Yes. And it's so interesting. I was
[6:12] talking to one of your friends, Par
[6:14] recently who said that even though you
[6:17] were her best friend and you all were
[6:19] very close that she didn't realize until
[6:21] you wrote the book Conscious Parenting
[6:23] that she was doing that in her own
[6:25] relationship with her son. Yes. Forcing
[6:27] her son Yes. Many of you may recognize
[6:29] this. forcing her son to have piano
[6:32] lessons, right? And he hated it.
[6:34] >> Right? From the most benign go kiss
[6:36] grandma and the child is like, I don't
[6:38] want to kiss grandma. She smells. Right?
[6:40] From the the pushing of the child from
[6:43] that to play an instrument because I
[6:45] want you to play an instrument or excel
[6:47] in school or wear your hair like this
[6:48] and go into a beauty pageant because you
[6:50] look so cute. Get married to this
[6:52] person, follow my god, all the way to
[6:56] sexual exploitation and trafficking.
[6:58] It's all the same throughine of
[7:00] objectifying our children, commodifying
[7:02] them, and using them to fulfill our ego,
[7:06] our unbridled ego. So, these books are
[7:09] my interruption to the pipeline of
[7:13] raising insecure girls to become
[7:15] self-abandoning women, raising lost boys
[7:18] to become prediting men. The these books
[7:21] are my interruption of that pipeline. In
[7:24] the beginning of raising conscious
[7:25] daughters, uh, you write a wake-up call
[7:28] letter to parents. You say, "As both a
[7:30] psychologist and a mother, let me say
[7:33] this plainly. I am deeply troubled by
[7:36] what I see unfolding in girlhood across
[7:39] the industrialized world. For one simple
[7:41] reason, this is not the way we should be
[7:43] raising our daughters." What are you
[7:45] seeing,
[7:46] >> Oprah? I could cry because I'm a girl
[7:49] inside me and I'm raising a daughter.
[7:52] And our daughter's ecosystem, their
[7:55] neurochemistry is so finely tuned to
[7:59] relational nuance, so sensitive to cues
[8:03] from each other. They build their
[8:06] identity. Girls, more than boys, and I'm
[8:08] not saying boys can't do this, but more
[8:10] so than boys, girls are primed to
[8:13] develop an identity based within the
[8:15] container of a face-to-face eye to eye
[8:19] relationship.
[8:20] That's how they discover who they are.
[8:22] Now you're putting these very sensitive
[8:26] fine-tuned forks into the tornado and
[8:30] hurricane and tsunami of constant the
[8:32] algorithm the feed comparison
[8:35] perfectionism
[8:36] you know feeling bullied feeling
[8:39] objectified over sexualized early
[8:42] sexualization you're taking that
[8:43] butterfly and she's lost in that tsunami
[8:46] and that's why over I'll tell you the
[8:48] stats okay I'll just rattle them off
[8:51] because they're alarming
[8:52] Okay. One in three girls are anxious.
[8:56] Anxiety disorder. Depression has doubled
[8:58] in the last decade. Anxiety has doubled
[9:00] in the last decade. It's in the last
[9:02] decade since the advent of technology
[9:04] which is hijacking their attention and
[9:07] consuming their sense of self.
[9:09] >> Depression has doubled.
[9:10] >> One in five girls by the age of 18 has
[9:13] selfharmed. Self harm has risen
[9:17] 188%
[9:19] since 2010. Okay.
[9:21] >> Wow. That means girls cutting
[9:22] >> cutting self harm eating disorders um
[9:25] suicidal ideiation up 60% in the last
[9:29] decade. One in four girls by the age of
[9:32] 18 and this won't come as a surprise.
[9:34] I've been dealing with this um has had
[9:37] sexual violence or sexual abuse. One in
[9:39] two has been cyberbullied. So now you
[9:42] take a girl whose intricate brain that
[9:46] has amazing neural bridges between the
[9:48] left and right hemisphere. She can talk
[9:50] about her feelings. She feels more
[9:53] deeply and can access her feelings more
[9:55] deeply because of her neurochemistry.
[9:57] You know, estrogen finally tunes her
[10:00] oxytocin and turns it on. So, her
[10:02] bonding hormone is right there and
[10:04] estrogen does that.
[10:06] >> She's primed for, you know, becoming a
[10:10] victim and prey to these forces that are
[10:13] constantly telling her she's not good
[10:15] enough. She needs to be more. G is not
[10:19] perfect. You know, the filters.
[10:21] >> I don't know how how y'all are doing it
[10:22] out there raising young girls because I
[10:25] think with the social media and the
[10:29] pressure.
[10:30] >> I mean, I look at my feed and I never
[10:32] end up feeling better about myself.
[10:34] >> I I how can you? And women, I'm sorry to
[10:38] say, need to take some responsibility
[10:40] because we are perpetuating the same
[10:44] climate of perfectionism that
[10:47] besieges us, that entraps us.
[10:50] >> Yeah. Well, that's why one of the things
[10:51] I so appreciated and felt so compelling
[10:56] in raising conscious daughters is this
[10:58] letter. You created a hypothetical
[11:01] letter from a 16-year-old girl to her
[11:04] parent that really is a compilation of
[11:06] hundreds of conversations that you've
[11:08] had with your clients, with your
[11:11] patients uh of all ages over the years.
[11:14] So, I want you all to listen to this.
[11:16] Maybe this will resonate with you. This
[11:18] could be your daughter.
[11:21] >> You tell me [music] to trust you, but I
[11:23] don't feel safe to. You tell me to love
[11:25] my body, but I've never heard you say
[11:27] one kind word about yours. You tell me
[11:29] to find [music] love, but I see how many
[11:32] of you stay in relationships that seem
[11:34] loveless and dull. You tell me to speak
[11:37] my truth, but then you tell me to calm
[11:38] down when I do. You want me to find
[11:40] purpose and joy, but I [music] watch you
[11:42] burning out. You want me to accept
[11:44] myself just as I am, but then I never
[11:46] see you okay with yourself, like ever.
[11:48] [music]
[11:49] You always look stressed and like you
[11:51] are in a bad mood. It's all so
[11:53] confusing, Mom. [music] You want to know
[11:55] the truth about why I act the way I do?
[11:58] I'm really scared most of the time. I
[12:00] don't really know how to believe in
[12:02] myself. Everything feels warped and
[12:04] shaky. [music]
[12:05] I know that what I see is based on what
[12:07] I saw last in my feed and not the truth.
[12:09] And this [music] freaks me out. I want
[12:12] to know the truth, but I cannot find it
[12:14] anywhere. When you were growing up, you
[12:16] could just trust the news at least. But
[12:18] [music] now, none of us can rely on
[12:20] anything to be real. most things are not
[12:23] and that is an [music] awful feeling.
[12:25] >> So you wrote that letter as a composite
[12:27] because this is what the girls are
[12:29] sharing with you for themselves.
[12:31] >> Yeah. They're trying to tell the moms
[12:33] and dads, hey, just because you are an
[12:36] adult now and you went through
[12:37] teenagehood, what I'm going through is
[12:39] something that you don't know. So do not
[12:42] tell me, oh, when I was your age, when I
[12:45] was 21, this is what I did. Because I'm
[12:47] growing up in a world that you don't
[12:49] recognize. So at least have the humility
[12:51] to know that you don't know. That's
[12:52] where we all need to start. That's why I
[12:54] wrote these books, my seventh and eighth
[12:56] book, because parents are in a new era
[12:58] now. So whatever we knew before,
[13:00] >> it's not the same.
[13:01] >> It's not the same. We have to become
[13:03] humble and begin listening to what our
[13:05] children are telling us. And they are in
[13:07] pain. They're feeling the pressure of
[13:09] knowing too much too soon, of being
[13:11] overexposed.
[13:13] >> Yes.
[13:14] >> Too overexposed and too over sexualized.
[13:17] and this is robbing them of their
[13:19] rightful childhood. She knows that her
[13:22] feed is curated to her desires and
[13:25] insecurities. It's complete
[13:28] manipulation. So, she believes
[13:30] >> these girls know that what they're
[13:32] seeing isn't even real anymore.
[13:34] >> It's just for them to exploit them,
[13:35] their insecurity. Oh, you want to travel
[13:38] to the mountains now? You your feed will
[13:41] be full of that beguiling you, seducing
[13:44] you to go travel. You only have to say
[13:45] it in your phone. And then now you're
[13:47] going to be shown mountains and trips
[13:48] and all the things,
[13:49] >> right? And the same is for cult
[13:51] ideology. The same is for toxic
[13:53] masculinity, misogyny. Misogynistic
[13:56] messages are coming through her phone
[13:58] and into her brain. And she's not ready
[14:00] to process it. She has no language for
[14:02] it. Yeah.
[14:02] >> But she's being told she's an object way
[14:04] before she even realizes that she's a
[14:07] body that she can own.
[14:09] >> Yeah. She's been objectified.
[14:10] >> Yes.
[14:11] >> Yeah. And our daughters will look to the
[14:13] women around them because their mirror
[14:15] neurons are so activated that they will
[14:18] identify with the modeling that we
[14:20] provide as women. And that's why I teach
[14:22] mothers more than anyone. If you want to
[14:25] raise sovereign daughters, you have to
[14:27] learn to self-love. And if you continue
[14:30] in your self-loathing and if you're at
[14:31] war with your body and if you are always
[14:34] in the land of more, more and never
[14:36] enough, your daughters are absorbing
[14:38] that. So you have to you owe it to your
[14:41] daughter to heal and enter wholeness.
[14:43] >> But don't you you also say in raising
[14:45] conscious daughters that that's where we
[14:47] are with girls now that we are in the
[14:49] land of more more more.
[14:51] >> Yes. And you know it's one thing to put
[14:54] pressure on our children. We've always
[14:56] done that. But it's another thing when
[14:59] your daughter now is on a platform where
[15:03] it's a global curation of overperfection
[15:07] being presented to her as an ideal.
[15:09] Right now with the filters, now with the
[15:11] like button. So now it's become a
[15:13] constant audition there. She's always
[15:15] auditing. She's never herself. She's
[15:18] always the persona and never the
[15:21] essence. And she's living disconnected,
[15:24] disembodied, dislocated. And that girl
[15:27] is easy prey for predation. She's easily
[15:30] manipulated because she's being told who
[15:33] to be before she ever spent her whole
[15:35] life manipulating herself. You're
[15:37] spending all your time manipulating,
[15:38] >> right? I call it the perception prison.
[15:40] She's in this perception prison where
[15:42] she herself is the prisoner and the
[15:44] warden to her own essence.
[15:46] >> That's why I think this is such an
[15:47] important book and raising sons because
[15:50] whether you are raising daughters or
[15:52] sons or not, you will see yourself in
[15:54] these stories. Yes,
[15:56] >> our listeners [music] tell us that the
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[16:57] life starts to move even faster as a new
[16:59] school year begins. Fall routines get
[17:01] underway, the calendar fills up. Whether
[17:03] you're waiting in the school pickup
[17:05] line, loading up the car for a weekend
[17:07] getaway, taking a quiet drive home after
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[17:11] daughter from the sidelines, these
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[17:33] >> And we have parents of daughters joining
[17:35] us. Christina is zooming in from
[17:37] Michigan. Hi Christina.
[17:38] >> Hi. Hi there.
[17:40] >> Hi Dr. Say. Hi Oprah. Um I'm so grateful
[17:44] for your focus and attention on this
[17:45] topic. I have three daughters. They're
[17:48] 15year-old twins and a 12-year-old
[17:51] daughter. And I feel like what I once
[17:53] knew to be true about parenting no
[17:56] longer applies at all. Um, honestly, I
[17:58] feel really lost. I feel like I'm
[18:00] constantly rerouting and recalculating
[18:04] my approach. These girls are growing up
[18:06] in a world of individualism,
[18:09] capitalism, social division,
[18:12] materialism. It's nonstop pressure like
[18:15] you've said Dr. Shafali and comparison
[18:17] and always striving for the
[18:18] unattainable. the dopamine addiction
[18:21] from their social scrolling
[18:24] just continues to fuel that, you know,
[18:26] materialism. And every week there's a
[18:28] new brand or object or thing that they
[18:30] need to have. And not to mention all the
[18:32] scary news in the world and events that
[18:35] are, you know, currently taking place.
[18:37] So, it's all just too much. And I've
[18:39] watched my little girls grow from these
[18:41] happy young girls into really anxious,
[18:46] overwhelmed,
[18:48] um, anxiety medicated, attending therapy
[18:53] just to get out of bed in the morning
[18:54] and go to school. And it doesn't feel
[18:56] right. It's they've been raised in a
[18:58] really loving and supportive household
[19:00] with two parents and they're smart
[19:02] girls. They have friends. They're
[19:04] athletic. But it doesn't seem like
[19:06] that's enough anymore because of all the
[19:08] external pressure. And so with all that
[19:11] pressure, I feel like I am constantly
[19:16] um bailing them out, rescuing them,
[19:19] making accommodations for them with no
[19:22] consequences. Things my mother would
[19:24] never have done. And I'm finding myself
[19:26] >> Give us an example. Give us an example.
[19:28] >> Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. So, I think we
[19:30] all have the instance where a child
[19:33] forgot something at school and you're
[19:35] going to bring it to them, right? Once
[19:36] in a while that happens. I feel like any
[19:39] ask they make, they they forgot their
[19:41] homework, they forgot their lunch, they
[19:43] are cold. I am picking up these things
[19:46] and rushing off to school. I'm
[19:48] disrupting my day. I'm disrupting my
[19:50] week because I see at a baseline just
[19:53] how anxious they are at all times that
[19:56] I'm trying to like hold them together
[19:58] and scaffold around them and keep them
[20:03] going throughout their day. Um, and you
[20:06] know, I'm almost embarrassed to admit
[20:08] some of the things like that I'll
[20:09] continue to buy for them or you know,
[20:12] experiences I'll give to them like
[20:15] having a personal trainer because guess
[20:17] what? their friends do and they're
[20:19] afraid they're going to fall behind in
[20:20] their sports team because they're not
[20:23] running as fast as the other girls. And
[20:24] I I am embarrassed. Like it truly feels
[20:26] like I have to do this from a deep like
[20:29] maternal instinct. And my question for
[20:31] you really is how do I start to let go
[20:34] at this age? Natural consequences are
[20:36] very important, right? But this anxiety,
[20:40] >> right? So you you have so much anxiety
[20:42] also that they're falling apart, right?
[20:44] And I do not blame you. I just had a
[20:46] 15-year-old. My daughter is now 23. So,
[20:49] I totally understand the pressures that
[20:51] you feel as a mother because they're
[20:53] feeling all this pressure to keep up, to
[20:55] be perfect, to be something. So, we buy,
[20:59] we borrow, we we do anything to buttress
[21:02] a a flailing sense of self. But here's
[21:05] where we are part of the pattern, right?
[21:07] And you know this, it doesn't feel good
[21:09] to you because you're you you know
[21:11] you're being pulled against your will.
[21:14] But that's what our daughters are.
[21:15] They're being pulled against their will.
[21:16] We are being swept by the undertoe of a
[21:19] materialistic consumeristic culture that
[21:21] we all are feeling helpless with. So
[21:23] what do we do?
[21:24] >> Yeah. And and and what is she really
[21:26] teaching her daughters by giving in to
[21:28] every single thing that they ask? What
[21:30] is what is she really teaching?
[21:32] >> Well, she's really teaching them that
[21:34] yes, your personal trainer matters for
[21:36] your identity. Yes, getting into that
[21:39] team matters for your self worth, right?
[21:41] We're actually we're doing the very
[21:43] thing that is actually going to keep
[21:44] taking from them. It's it's it's a
[21:47] neverending cycle because that's how
[21:49] they've got us hooked and they've got us
[21:51] parents anxious because our girls are in
[21:54] a panic attack over I do not blame her.
[21:56] They come to her and they're screaming,
[21:58] crying, they're having a meltdown. She's
[22:00] afraid they're going to self harm if she
[22:02] doesn't give them the car or the gift or
[22:04] the jewelry because all the friends are
[22:06] being bathed in this ocean, this current
[22:09] of anxiety, panic, perfectionism,
[22:12] hyperexposure. I mean, it's girls are at
[22:15] a different level because their
[22:16] attunement to culture is even more. So,
[22:19] we have to scaffold them. So, now you
[22:21] think you're scaffolding them by buying
[22:23] them that purse, by buying them that
[22:26] vacation or whatever, that bobble. But
[22:28] here's the thing. You're actually
[22:30] feeding the monster because you are
[22:33] teaching them that yes, their worth
[22:35] means that they should look beautiful
[22:36] and fit in. So what do we do as parents?
[22:39] Very hard. Not saying it's easy. And I
[22:41] talk about the pillar of anti-fragility
[22:44] in the book. It is so important for us
[22:47] as parents to make them anti-fragile.
[22:52] What does that mean? We have to teach
[22:54] them that they will be okay even if they
[22:57] fall apart. But see, I know what this
[23:00] mother is experiencing. She's like, "No,
[23:01] they won't be okay. They won't be okay.
[23:04] So, let me pump them
[23:05] >> with the drug, whatever the drug of the
[23:07] day is." And this is where she's
[23:10] codependent and she's enabling. And I
[23:12] don't blame her. I've done this myself
[23:15] because we're so worried. So, we're
[23:17] anxious, they're anxious. So, we keep
[23:18] feeding and giving the drug.
[23:20] >> How do you break the cycle?
[23:21] >> How do you break it? is to realize that
[23:23] we have the teaching of resilience and
[23:25] anti-fragility comes from the falling
[23:29] apart comes from the rock bottom moment
[23:33] even with my clients I wait for rock
[23:35] bottom not because I'm sadistic because
[23:37] I know that it is only when you see
[23:41] yourself at rock bottom and see yourself
[23:43] able to handle it that you build the
[23:47] anti-fragility and the resilience. So
[23:49] what we're doing is protecting the rock
[23:51] bottom from getting to rock bottom.
[23:53] >> So we never believe we're strong enough.
[23:55] So we keep feeding. We're stuck in this
[23:57] loop. You're in a loop. They're in a
[23:59] loop. You'll be millions of dollars, you
[24:01] know, poorer, and nothing will change
[24:04] until you cut the loop and stop feeding
[24:06] the monster.
[24:07] >> How does So how does she do that?
[24:08] >> She has a talk with them, comes to comes
[24:11] to a coach like me, and I'm often the
[24:13] bad guy who says, "I'm not We cannot
[24:14] feed the monster anymore. We are now
[24:17] drug addicted to the thing on the
[24:19] outside and we all have to detox. The
[24:21] whole system has to detox and it is
[24:23] painful and scary especially with
[24:25] anxious girls because you think they're
[24:27] going to self harm. They're going to cut
[24:28] themselves. They're going to harm
[24:29] themselves. But we cannot feed that
[24:32] beast
[24:33] >> cuz we're all afraid. They're afraid of
[24:35] their own pain. We have to teach them
[24:37] that we cannot be afraid of pain. Pain
[24:39] is something that teaches us. It is our
[24:42] gift and our invitation.
[24:43] >> It's one of the things you also said
[24:44] about boys. So it applies to raising
[24:46] children period. I see that you have to
[24:50] let them know that if you fall apart,
[24:53] you will still be okay and I'm here and
[24:55] that we all have fallen apart
[24:56] >> and we and we are together. Yeah.
[24:58] >> And the relationship is strong enough.
[25:00] See, you're not believing, Mom, that
[25:02] your presence is more important than the
[25:06] purse and the shoes. The shoes and the
[25:07] purse are transitory and they're just
[25:10] momentary gratification. You can hold
[25:14] them through the falling apart and you
[25:17] are going to be the one who will pull
[25:19] them through. So if you believe in
[25:20] yourself,
[25:22] they will fall apart. You're right. But
[25:24] that is how we detox the beast.
[25:28] It's really interesting because I
[25:29] thought we were at rock bottom when they
[25:31] wouldn't go to school and we're wouldn't
[25:33] get out of bed and we were going to
[25:35] therapy and you know taking these
[25:37] anti-anxiety meds. So I think rock
[25:40] bottom like that felt like my rock
[25:42] bottom, right? But I realize obviously
[25:45] that's
[25:45] >> but because you're in this loop, it
[25:47] means that it wasn't bottom enough. It's
[25:50] coming again. Now you're just
[25:51] buttressing it with things and things
[25:53] are never going to teach them connection
[25:56] to the self. They have to face
[25:59] themselves at rock bottom.
[26:00] >> I saw you have a a moment of recognition
[26:03] there. things are never going to teach
[26:06] them connection to their self.
[26:10] >> Yeah.
[26:10] >> Yeah.
[26:12] >> And pain does.
[26:13] >> And pain does.
[26:14] >> Pain does. Our ability to transcend and
[26:17] transform and alchemize pain teaches us
[26:19] connection to us.
[26:20] >> I know. But no parent wants their child
[26:22] to have to experience pain.
[26:23] >> Yes.
[26:23] >> Yes.
[26:24] >> Right. And what you said about control
[26:26] equaling love. I mean, I think that's
[26:28] that is where I feel like I'm coming
[26:30] from. I'm trying to manage
[26:33] >> control their environment and help and
[26:34] consciously I we're you know
[26:36] materialists I know that
[26:38] >> I think you're trying to control them
[26:39] falling apart and yet falling apart is a
[26:42] very thing that will teach them
[26:44] self-control.
[26:46] >> Oo well I'm grateful for that advice.
[26:48] That is a tough one to swallow. But um
[26:51] you are certainly the person we need
[26:53] right now to start being more disruptive
[26:55] and sharing this information because
[26:57] it's it's hard. It's really tough.
[26:59] >> Very hard. very hard.
[27:00] >> You're going to have so many ahas and
[27:02] seeing yourself in the book and be and
[27:03] you'll be grateful for because one of
[27:05] the things that she does is offer a path
[27:08] forward. Not just stating what the
[27:09] problem is, but offering a path forward.
[27:11] So, I could see your woof that that hit
[27:14] you hard. But yeah, feels like the truth
[27:17] to me.
[27:18] >> I mean, it does feel like the reason why
[27:20] it hit you, Christina, is because you
[27:22] know inside yourself that what she's
[27:24] saying is true.
[27:25] >> 100%. And you know, I'll just tie it
[27:27] back together, but just briefly,
[27:30] >> ultimately, Christina, it's your little
[27:32] girl that wants to be a good mother that
[27:34] is actually unable to watch them fall
[27:37] apart because then you'd have to face
[27:39] that you can't control it all. And you
[27:41] can't keep your kids happy. And that's
[27:43] actually not your job.
[27:46] >> Yeah.
[27:48] >> Yeah. It's the little girl in us that
[27:51] wants to be the best mom. dish you over
[27:54] here because you're getting you're
[27:55] starting to get to me with these things.
[27:57] Oh man.
[27:58] >> Wow. All right. Thank you so much. Thank
[28:00] you so much. Thank you both.
[28:03] >> Hello, dear listener. Head over to the
[28:05] Oprah podcast Instagram to check out the
[28:07] takeaway [music] presented by Geico.
[28:10] >> I'm really happy to tell you about my
[28:13] latest conversation with it's that quiet
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[28:16] where I can reflect on what sparked and
[28:18] what stuck with me. I love to share
[28:20] those takeaways with y'all.
[28:23] Unbelievable. [music] And Geico is proud
[28:25] to support these moments and the
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[28:36] out.
[28:40] Lisa's joining us from Illinois. Hi
[28:42] Lisa. I hear you have twin girls in
[28:44] college.
[28:45] >> I do. Hi Oprah. Hi Dr. Shafali. Thank
[28:48] you so much. This is such an important
[28:50] conversation. Um I do I have twin girls.
[28:54] They are 20. They are currently juniors
[28:56] in college and um they definitely grew
[29:01] up um with anxiety as well from an early
[29:04] age all through high school. And what
[29:07] really has impacted them over the years
[29:09] is the comparison culture or social
[29:12] comparison that happens on Instagram and
[29:15] Tik Tok. Um but now in their junior
[29:17] year, there's a whole new pressure.
[29:20] They're all thinking about their careers
[29:22] post college and what's really important
[29:26] for most of them is to get an internship
[29:29] right after their junior year. And so in
[29:33] particular for one of my daughters, I've
[29:35] noticed that she's starting to really
[29:37] struggle with LinkedIn because her feed
[29:42] is exactly what you were talking about,
[29:44] Dr. Shafali where it's every single
[29:48] person that she is connected to on
[29:50] LinkedIn is consistently posting
[29:53] self-promotional posts about all the
[29:56] achievements um that they've received
[29:59] academically um leadership positions
[30:02] that they've gotten in clubs and now
[30:05] they're all in the process of posting
[30:07] all the internships that they've
[30:09] received and this has put some
[30:12] incredible pressure on my daughter and I
[30:14] Notice comparison comparison
[30:16] >> comparison and she is saying everybody
[30:21] has gotten an internship and I have not
[30:23] gotten one yet. She used to be in high
[30:26] school I think a perfectionist needed to
[30:28] have the straight A's and now I see this
[30:31] all kind of falling apart and sort of
[30:34] blowing up and what's happening now is
[30:37] she's actually withdrawing. The question
[30:39] is how do I help her through this? This
[30:41] is obviously a very critical time in her
[30:44] life
[30:45] >> and how do I help her
[30:48] >> proceed in this environment without
[30:51] you know hurting her selfworth.
[30:53] >> You see when she was a perfectionist in
[30:55] high school and was getting the good
[30:56] grades and the trophies
[30:58] >> it was fine and she got a lot of
[31:00] external validation and we were all
[31:02] happy with that. But now you see these
[31:05] things mutate on themselves. We just
[31:07] don't see it coming. Too much
[31:10] perfectionism breeds over anxiety and
[31:13] the desperate desire to fit in. And your
[31:17] daughter basically is saying if I'm not
[31:19] in the high school yearbook, right?
[31:21] LinkedIn has now become like a high
[31:22] school yearbook. The most popular, the
[31:24] one with the most best job, the best
[31:27] raise, the best salary, the best title.
[31:29] >> And these are children we're talking
[31:31] about. They they've not even formed.
[31:32] They are still in identity formation,
[31:35] but they believe they have to foreclose
[31:36] their identity. That's the pressure the
[31:38] world puts on them that you better
[31:40] decide who you are, identify who you're
[31:42] going to be in high school, right?
[31:44] Because that way they can prey on girls
[31:47] wanting to find and because then if they
[31:49] want to find, they'll go get training
[31:50] earlier, they'll join classes earlier,
[31:53] they'll spend more money to train
[31:54] themselves earlier than they should. So
[31:57] your daughter has been misguided by
[32:00] culture and it's our job as parents to
[32:04] align them back to reality. Even if
[32:07] everybody's crazy on LinkedIn and
[32:09] everybody's saying that they need to be
[32:10] earning 100,000 by the time they're 18
[32:12] years old and money matters so much and
[32:14] status matters, we are here to teach our
[32:18] daughters differently. And that's where
[32:20] you step in and you teach her that when
[32:23] she was winning the trophies and the
[32:24] medals and the good grades in high
[32:26] school, actually that was a tragedy
[32:29] because she was actually doing it
[32:31] >> to chase worth not out of worth. And
[32:35] most of us are chasing worth. We're not
[32:37] expressing worth.
[32:38] >> Wow.
[32:38] >> So, she's doing all this just to fit in.
[32:40] So, it is empty. And it's just not
[32:43] hitting her yet. She thinks that if she
[32:44] gets the fancy job and the diamonds and
[32:47] the cute boyfriend, it's going to give
[32:49] her worth. She's so lucky she's not
[32:52] fitting in because now she has to find
[32:54] her worth without all of this. But you
[32:57] see, she's falling apart. That's what
[32:58] happens to us. The husband leaves us, we
[33:00] get a divorce, we put on 10 pounds, we
[33:02] fall apart because who we are has been
[33:05] so connected and mired with how we show
[33:09] up in the world or how we look. So this
[33:11] is your golden opportunity as a parent
[33:13] to teach her to move away from the toxic
[33:16] cultural messages and learn to discover
[33:19] her worth which is right there waiting
[33:21] for her within herself. So that means
[33:24] you can't buy into this either. you
[33:27] can't have a panic attack either. In
[33:29] fact, she shouldn't do an internship
[33:31] right now at all and instead go to her
[33:35] own self school like go to school and
[33:38] learn about herself, discover who she
[33:40] is, that's the school she needs to go
[33:42] to,
[33:43] >> the self-discovery school.
[33:44] >> Yeah. Yeah. And so what if she doesn't
[33:47] get the job and she doesn't get the
[33:49] whatever the opportunity is. It's
[33:50] happened to every one of us in life. And
[33:53] you don't get that one. You recover. You
[33:57] move on. You find strength from that.
[34:00] And when the next thing shows itself, it
[34:03] usually is an even better opportunity,
[34:05] >> right? And nothing against
[34:06] >> you know, you know, that's how life
[34:07] works,
[34:08] >> right? So for
[34:09] >> Yes, [clears throat] that's so true.
[34:10] >> Yeah.
[34:10] >> For a girl like that, a platform is
[34:14] toxic. Not for everybody, but for a girl
[34:17] like that, she's very sensitive. So
[34:19] parenting needs to trump the platform.
[34:22] Yes. Right. The adult needs to trump the
[34:25] algorithm. That makes so much sense. So
[34:27] much sense.
[34:29] >> Thanks, Lisa. I hope it gives you some
[34:31] guidance.
[34:32] >> It does. Definitely. So helpful. Thank
[34:34] you so much.
[34:35] >> Thank you so much.
[34:36] >> You say in raising conscious daughters.
[34:40] Girls have been socialized by the toxic
[34:43] patriarchy to compete with each other.
[34:45] Just as we're hearing here, each one has
[34:47] been socialized to be prettier and
[34:49] smarter than the others, to get the
[34:51] attention of the males around them.
[34:54] Patriarchy has always thrived by turning
[34:57] women against one another. Mothers
[34:59] especially must model something
[35:01] radically different. That's what you're
[35:02] saying.
[35:03] >> Yes. The greatest power the patriarchy
[35:06] has is in dividing us against each other
[35:09] >> and in us competing with each other,
[35:11] which we are doing. And it is in our
[35:14] sorority and in our sisterhood that we
[35:17] will stand up to the toxic patriarchy.
[35:19] But if we're too busy fighting and
[35:21] competing with each other, with our
[35:23] sisters, then patriarchy wins. We cannot
[35:26] blame the toxic male on the outside when
[35:28] we are being toxic with each other.
[35:30] >> And and this is the thing. I mean, as
[35:32] you turn the pages of this book, Raising
[35:34] Conscious Daughters, every sentence is a
[35:37] gem. I I I really appreciate this and I
[35:40] know this is going to resonate with with
[35:41] our mothers. If I had to identify the
[35:44] single most corrosive condition shaping
[35:46] the mental health of our daughters
[35:47] today, it would be what I call the
[35:49] psychology of more. Will you break that
[35:52] down for us?
[35:52] >> Yes. We are in a pervasive oceanic
[35:57] turmoil of this culture of never good
[36:01] enough. It's never enough. So, we have
[36:03] to always optimize. And the wellness
[36:06] industry is the leader of this. Like
[36:08] make your bed, have your matcha, do
[36:10] this, you know, do your Pilates, have
[36:11] your protein, h you know, go out in the
[36:13] sun, do your sun salutations. I mean,
[36:15] it's it's a sneaky way to keep us never
[36:19] accepting who we are. This idea, this
[36:22] toxic positive idea of keep improving.
[36:26] It's a it's a hollow way of keeping us
[36:29] stuck in thinking there's a next self
[36:31] that's going to be happier
[36:33] >> because there's never enough. It's never
[36:35] enough. So, we want more and more. But
[36:37] how about look in the mirror,
[36:39] >> accept that this is it. Wrinkles,
[36:41] cellulite, all of it.
[36:43] >> And this is enough. That's radical.
[36:46] >> India, a mom of two, joins us. Welcome,
[36:48] India. What's going on?
[36:49] >> Hi.
[36:50] >> Hi.
[36:50] >> Hi. Thank you guys so much for having
[36:52] me. Um, so I do have an 11-year-old
[36:55] daughter and I allowed her to get on
[36:58] TikTok. Um, only because of like the
[37:00] dance trends because her school friends
[37:03] were doing it. Her track friends were
[37:04] doing it. So I allowed her to get on
[37:07] there. Um, and so I do monitor it. I
[37:10] make sure you know who she's following
[37:12] and her followers are people that I
[37:15] know. Um, but recently I noticed that
[37:18] her algorithm changed to more about
[37:21] makeup and skin care and beauty
[37:24] enhancements, just things that an
[37:26] 11-year-old should not be worrying
[37:28] about. I want her to be like confident
[37:30] and comfortable in her skin and her
[37:33] natural beauty, but I guess, you know,
[37:36] social media brings so much comparison.
[37:39] And so um my question is basically how
[37:42] can I guide her in like a healthy way
[37:45] especially since we didn't grow up with
[37:47] social media at all. So I have nothing
[37:49] to go off of.
[37:52] >> So just very gently I'm going to tell
[37:54] you and encourage you and challenge you
[37:56] to reconsider her being on TikTok
[37:59] altogether because no matter how you can
[38:02] maneuver and monitor the algorithm will
[38:04] outpace you. It is way smarter than you.
[38:07] It is watching your daughter's every
[38:08] move. It is noticing when
[38:10] >> literally her every move.
[38:11] >> Every move. She They're listening to
[38:13] her. They're watching her take a selfie
[38:15] and take it down because she's insecure
[38:17] about it. And they will pump her with
[38:19] beauty products because this is the new
[38:21] marketplace for commodities.
[38:24] >> That's why she's getting all the uh
[38:26] >> beauty products because any picture
[38:28] she's taken or taken down that it it's
[38:31] like it's like having big brother
[38:33] watching you all the time. We're there.
[38:34] That's where we are.
[38:35] >> Yes. and and you you you and I cannot
[38:38] fathom the influence it is having on
[38:42] your daughter's brain. It is beyond you.
[38:44] So I'm not saying
[38:45] >> and can I just interrupt to say that
[38:47] what one of the things you expressed in
[38:48] the uh raising conscious son's book is
[38:52] we've gone from the algorithms wanting
[38:54] your attention to now wanting your
[38:57] complete attachment.
[38:59] >> That is what is happening.
[39:00] >> Yeah. And your daughter being on TikTok
[39:03] at this age
[39:04] >> is her attaching to a form of parenting
[39:08] that you are not going to be able to
[39:10] control.
[39:11] >> Yes. There is no consciousness in the
[39:13] computer code. There's no consciousness.
[39:14] There's no consciousness there. It is
[39:16] only exploitation for the purpose of
[39:19] profit. You would not do this in regular
[39:21] life. Do not do this. She is developing
[39:24] her identity at 11. You know, 11 is the
[39:28] turning point for most girls where they
[39:30] go from self-ceelebrating, selfhonoring
[39:34] to a shroud of who they are within
[39:37] moments without a Tik Tok, without the
[39:39] comparison. So, the best gift you can
[39:41] give her is to tell her that, you know,
[39:44] you as a family, your values have
[39:46] changed, and you can bring her to a
[39:48] therapist to be the bad quote unquote
[39:50] bad guy, but you have to detox her from
[39:53] this, even if all her friends are on it.
[39:56] Yeah. Okay.
[39:57] >> You can make them all watch this.
[40:00] >> Yes. You know, I I see you're not there
[40:03] yet. I see you're not there. I see
[40:04] you're like, "Well, yeah, I know what
[40:06] you're thinking, India. You're thinking
[40:08] it's going to be really hard now to get
[40:10] her off of Tik Tok because she's been on
[40:12] TikTok." Yeah. But you're the parent.
[40:14] You're the mother.
[40:15] >> Yeah. Don't outsource your power to the
[40:17] platform.
[40:18] >> Yes. Yes. Agreed. And I will say it was
[40:22] such a drastic change with her Christmas
[40:24] list this year from the toys to
[40:27] literally just skin care and makeup.
[40:30] >> Mhm. At 11.
[40:31] >> Yeah. At 11.
[40:33] >> Yeah. So, you already see it.
[40:36] >> This is what's so interesting. This is
[40:38] what's so interesting and I think you
[40:40] you you do a lot of this forewarning in
[40:43] both of the books is that things that
[40:45] seem mild now at 11 by the time she's 14
[40:51] if you don't assert yourself in the
[40:54] parenting role and continue to let the
[40:56] computer and the algorithm do it you
[40:59] will not be able to have any voice
[41:01] >> any influence the greatest influence we
[41:03] have as parents comes from our attention
[41:06] >> and our attachment
[41:07] >> cuz it's about to get real out here.
[41:08] >> And it's going to get worse.
[41:10] >> It's going to get It's about to get very
[41:12] real with AI being the companion to your
[41:15] child in ways that you have no idea.
[41:18] >> Yeah.
[41:18] >> Mhm.
[41:18] >> And and the psychological impact of a
[41:21] girl who sees herself with a filter
[41:23] >> and sees, wow, my nose looks this way
[41:26] and my cheekbones look I look better.
[41:29] >> If only I can just go buy all the
[41:31] products now to match that filtered
[41:33] image. and you know the filter will just
[41:36] keep outdoing her and
[41:38] >> right 11 is just too young to process
[41:40] that
[41:41] >> she doesn't have the language. She
[41:42] doesn't have the prefrontal cortex to
[41:45] tell her what is fake and what is real.
[41:47] So you're throwing her into the tsunami
[41:49] without the guidance and the guide rails
[41:51] and so she's going to fall off the
[41:53] cliff.
[41:54] >> Yeah.
[41:56] Yeah. Well, I Yeah, I I do think I am
[42:00] going to get her off of it. It literally
[42:02] started with the dance trends and now
[42:04] it's
[42:04] >> it starts in a very benign way.
[42:06] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You You were
[42:08] doing what you thought was best at the
[42:09] time, but Maya Angelou always said,
[42:11] "When you know better,
[42:13] >> you do better."
[42:14] >> And you just heard it. You just heard
[42:16] it. You can't say We all are witness to
[42:18] you hearing it, India. So, you can't say
[42:20] you didn't hear it. Yeah. Yeah.
[42:21] [laughter]
[42:22] >> She's holding you accountable.
[42:24] >> Yes.
[42:25] >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you, India. Thank
[42:27] you.
[42:28] >> Thank you. Okay, we have one more Zoom.
[42:30] Kiara is zooming in from New Jersey. Hi,
[42:32] Kiara.
[42:34] >> Hi, how are you? Thanks so much for me.
[42:37] Wonderful. Wonderful. I've taken a whole
[42:40] page full of notes and I can't wait for
[42:43] the book to come out um and buy it for
[42:45] myself and my sister and all my mom
[42:47] friends. I know there's going to be a
[42:48] lot of really great wisdom in there. So,
[42:51] um this is a very difficult job of
[42:53] parenting. Um I'm a teacher. I've been a
[42:56] teacher for almost 20 years. uh middle
[42:58] school children and uh nothing that I've
[43:01] ever experienced in the classroom ever
[43:03] could prepare me for how difficult
[43:05] parenting is. So, um just want to say
[43:08] that right off the bat. Uh my husband
[43:09] and I both full-time. We're really busy
[43:12] but very hands-on. Um we've got two
[43:14] teenage girls. Um our oldest is junior.
[43:17] She's 16 years old and then our youngest
[43:19] is just about 14 years old. This past
[43:22] year, we've had more challenges than
[43:24] ever before with um academics and with
[43:28] social pressures and with the older one
[43:30] is entering um romantic relationships
[43:34] and um just everything that teenage
[43:37] years bring. And we realize that we're
[43:39] really venturing into behaviors that can
[43:42] have real consequences if they're not
[43:43] handled appropriately right now. This
[43:46] past year has been really difficult,
[43:48] especially for my older daughter. She's
[43:49] had um lots of uh um incidents aimed
[43:53] targeted at her um with a boy in school
[43:56] related to bullying. And
[43:58] >> how old are they again? Remind us,
[43:59] refresh how old.
[44:01] >> So my oldest is a junior. She's 16. And
[44:03] then my youngest is 14.
[44:05] >> Okay.
[44:05] >> Um so the oldest, they've both actually
[44:08] been um aimed at uh um incidences of
[44:11] bullying. Um so much so that the state
[44:13] of New Jersey has actually had to kind
[44:16] of get involved and intervene.
[44:18] Thankfully, that's kind of in the in the
[44:20] rearview mirror. Um, but we're just
[44:22] trying to navigate the teenage years
[44:24] with all of the pressures that come with
[44:26] raising teenage daughters. I want to
[44:29] give my girls, we trust them and we want
[44:31] to give them the autonomy to make their
[44:32] own decisions and learn from their own
[44:34] mistakes. Um, but at what point should
[44:37] we step in? So, what is controlling
[44:39] versus guiding my teenage teenagers
[44:42] decisions and behaviors look like? Well,
[44:45] just as a general rule of thumb,
[44:48] anything that is self or other harming,
[44:52] so if it's eating disorders, cutting,
[44:55] suicidal ideiation, bullying another
[44:57] person that is impinging on the
[44:59] emotional and physical well-being of the
[45:01] self or the other, you need to step in
[45:05] with your authority and influence and
[45:08] take them to a coach, take them to a
[45:10] therapist, take them to someone so you
[45:12] get the support. But do not be in denial
[45:14] that that is a passing phase because
[45:16] these things very quickly catapult as
[45:18] you saw with bullying. They became the
[45:21] victims of bullying. So cyber bullying
[45:23] is a real trauma now that our girls
[45:26] especially are experiencing their sex
[45:29] sex exploitation, their extortion, their
[45:32] cyber bullying. So I'm not surprised and
[45:35] I'm really sorry though that this
[45:36] happened because the bully is no longer
[45:39] left in the schoolyard or the
[45:40] playground. You see the bully follows
[45:42] you home now and the minute you open
[45:44] your phone in the WhatsApp chat in your
[45:46] Snapchats the bully's right there in
[45:48] these groups that the kids form and
[45:51] leave you out. So it's very very you
[45:53] know the the part of the brain that
[45:55] lights up when a girl is rejected is the
[45:58] same as the part of the brain as she's
[46:01] experiencing physical pain. That's how
[46:03] painful it is to her to be excluded from
[46:06] the social millu from the group. So it
[46:08] is what your daughters have gone through
[46:10] is traumatic. And so now you're talking
[46:12] about the fallout of that and that is
[46:15] you're going to see that it is
[46:16] interrelated. It is not separate. And
[46:19] the thing with bullying we need to
[46:20] understand as parents is that
[46:22] >> the girl begins to doubt herself. She
[46:24] begins to think it must be me, you know,
[46:26] it must be my fault. So let me fit in
[46:28] more. Let me wear this or let me become
[46:30] skinnier or let me become clever.
[46:33] >> So whatever you're seeing now is the
[46:34] fallout. And it could be rebellious
[46:36] behavior is because she's they are now
[46:38] trying to fit in because that sorority
[46:42] that community was taken from her. So
[46:44] now she'll do anything to be part of the
[46:47] group. So we have to understand the
[46:49] underlying need here and not just focus
[46:51] on the surface behavior.
[46:54] >> That makes sense.
[46:55] >> That makes sense.
[46:56] >> Yeah.
[46:57] >> Yeah. You're seeing the oscillation of
[46:59] the devastation of her selfhood being
[47:02] ostracized from the group for a girl
[47:05] that is death.
[47:07] >> Yeah,
[47:07] >> that is death to a girl.
[47:09] >> Yeah,
[47:09] >> Kiara, thank you so much. Thank you so
[47:11] much.
[47:12] >> Thanks so much for me.
[47:13] >> Well, you write this about how young
[47:15] girls can become so accommodating it
[47:17] becomes toxic. What happens to the
[47:18] daughter who's obedient and always
[47:20] helpful? The one who smooths every rough
[47:22] edge, who adapts, accommodates, and
[47:25] rarely asks for much? The one who's
[47:27] never a burden on her parents. I know a
[47:29] lot of you are listening and you're
[47:30] hearing yourself in this. Never too
[47:32] much, never in the way. She's every
[47:35] parent's dream child. The answer is
[47:37] this.
[47:38] >> She slowly disappears.
[47:41] >> Yes. She gets erased. I was so struck by
[47:44] that because for years, as you know,
[47:47] I've talked to women on the Oprah show
[47:50] all those years and even now who tried
[47:53] to be the perfect daughter, the perfect
[47:55] girl, the always good. This is a kind of
[47:58] suffering, you say, that hides in plain
[48:00] sight. We don't recognize it as pain
[48:02] because it looks like success because
[48:05] she's the good daughter. Yes, we call it
[48:07] good behavior, even ideal womanhood. But
[48:09] inside our daughters and inside so many
[48:12] women, the expectation to be all things
[48:16] for all people siphons away her power.
[48:20] >> Yeah. This is the curse of the woman,
[48:22] the modern woman who wants to be the
[48:25] savior, the fixer, the pleaser. She's
[48:28] the parentified daughter. She's the
[48:29] golden girl. And she's often raised by
[48:31] the mother who herself was parentified
[48:34] and expects the daughter to take on the
[48:36] legacy. So it's really the mother who at
[48:38] the kitchen table will train her
[48:39] daughter to be the next caretaker, the
[48:42] emotional janitor for the household and
[48:44] passes on that legacy. And what happens
[48:47] is that that girl begins to identify as
[48:50] that role as that function. So she
[48:53] herself doesn't know who she is without
[48:55] that role and that function. So she will
[48:58] constantly look for broken pieces and
[49:00] damaged goods to fix. So that gives her
[49:02] her identity of fixing. But in all of
[49:04] this, she will burn out.
[49:06] because there's not enough people
[49:08] outside she can fix.
[49:10] >> Wow. I want to read this passage about
[49:12] when we uh praise our daughters. So to
[49:15] every mother reading this, when you
[49:16] praise your daughter for being good,
[49:19] helpful, or mature for her age, pause,
[49:23] ask yourself what that praise may be
[49:25] teaching her and what it might be
[49:26] costing her. Because without realizing
[49:28] it, your applause can train her to
[49:31] abandon herself in order to be loved.
[49:34] And over time, the power that once lived
[49:36] so freely inside your daughter will
[49:38] begin to dissipate. Until one day, you
[49:40] find yourself wondering how that bright,
[49:42] spunky girl slowly faded into a quieter,
[49:46] more careful version of herself and more
[49:49] uncomfortably into a version of you,
[49:54] >> lost part of you. You know, I talk about
[49:56] three pillars that are connected to what
[49:58] you just said. The pillar of voice. It
[50:00] is our sacred responsibility to give our
[50:03] daughters their voice.
[50:05] >> Yes. One of the things that struck me in
[50:06] the book is that you were saying, you
[50:08] know, instead of wanting your daughters
[50:09] to be good, you want your daughters to
[50:11] be heard.
[50:12] >> You want to train them to use their
[50:14] voice and not just be good.
[50:16] >> Yes. So their voice that speaks to them
[50:18] first. Yes.
[50:19] >> So that means they have to train
[50:20] themselves to hear that voice, that
[50:22] relationship with
[50:23] >> and to trust that voice.
[50:25] >> Trust that voice. That is the first gift
[50:27] we need to give our daughters. This
[50:29] doesn't mean they're disrespectful.
[50:30] Doesn't mean they're loud. It just means
[50:32] they're heard. They are authentic.
[50:34] They're self- knowing. The next pillar I
[50:36] talk about is enoughness. We must train
[50:38] them in the language of this is enough.
[50:41] You've done enough today. Rest is not a
[50:43] dirty word. You are allowed to be
[50:46] ordinary. I talk about this in every
[50:48] book. You are allowed to be unhappy.
[50:49] You're allowed to be imperfect. You're
[50:51] allowed to be ordinary. And the third
[50:52] pillar I talk about in the seven that I
[50:55] outline is the pillar of self
[50:57] authorship. We must allow our daughters
[51:00] to lead the way for their own
[51:03] self-direction, for their own destiny.
[51:05] And that takes trust. So imagine women
[51:08] in our generation who were never trusted
[51:10] by their mothers. How can we bestow and
[51:13] bequeath something we've never been
[51:15] given ourselves? Well, we have to
[51:17] cultivate it. And I teach parents how to
[51:18] cultivate.
[51:19] >> That's what that's what the that's what
[51:20] the young girl read in the letter. in
[51:21] the composite letter.
[51:22] >> Yeah. She's like, "Listen to me.
[51:23] >> Listen to me.
[51:24] >> I I know. Listen. Trust me. I have a
[51:27] voice. Can I allow it to unfold?"
[51:30] >> Well, you write in the end. You say, "My
[51:33] hope is simple and impossible
[51:37] all at once." You say that somewhere
[51:40] between these pages your heart is
[51:42] softened, that your chest is loosened,
[51:44] that your shoulders drop just a little
[51:47] bit and something inside you cracked
[51:49] open just enough to let more love in.
[51:54] for the daughter you are raising and who
[51:56] you now can see not through fear or
[51:59] expectation you say but through
[52:01] reverence for her unmatchable power her
[52:05] inhibitable voice and her untamed light.
[52:08] So what's the message you want to leave
[52:11] with parents?
[52:12] >> That our daughters are not broken.
[52:15] They are not over dramatic or over
[52:18] feeling. It is their capacity to feel
[52:22] >> and our daughters have it more than
[52:24] anyone else
[52:25] >> that will heal the world. So you have to
[52:28] preserve that as a parent. And in order
[52:31] to preserve that you have to scaffold
[52:33] her from the toxic misogyny and the
[52:36] messages from this world. She is a gift
[52:39] to the world and she is a force to be
[52:42] reckoned with and she has wholeness
[52:45] waiting to burgeon but she will be
[52:48] fragmented because she's also sensitive
[52:50] and fragile and if you're not going to
[52:52] protect her she will fragment.
[52:55] >> Wow. Thank you.
[52:57] >> Thank you.
[52:58] >> Thank you Dr. Fal for your paradigm
[53:01] shifting wisdom, raising conscious
[53:02] daughters, building confidence, courage,
[53:04] and inner power in an ancient world. I
[53:08] also highly recommend her podcast. It's
[53:10] called Parenting. And you, if you're a
[53:13] parent, you should be listening to Dr.
[53:15] Shafali. You can have access to her
[53:17] wisdom anytime you need it because I
[53:19] know it's hard out there for all of you
[53:21] parents. I speak from having spoken to
[53:23] parents for years and years and years. I
[53:25] don't pretend in any way to even begin
[53:28] to understand what it's like, but what I
[53:30] do know, it's harder now than ever.
[53:32] >> It is.
[53:33] >> It's harder. Thank you, Christina and
[53:35] Lisa and Kiara and India for your
[53:37] parenting questions. Until next time,
[53:39] everybody, go well. Get this book for
[53:41] yourself. Get it for your friends. And
[53:43] thank you to our friends at Geico for
[53:45] presenting today's episode. Dr. Shafali
[53:48] has two new books, [music] Raising
[53:49] Conscious Sons and Raising Conscious
[53:51] Daughters. And yes, as Dr. Jiovali says
[53:54] raising a son versus a daughter are
[53:56] [music] different experiences. Both
[53:58] books are available on September 15th.
[54:00] You can pre-order your copies right now
[54:02] by [music] scanning the QR code on your
[54:04] screen. The books are both thoughtful.
[54:06] They're practical guides [music] for
[54:07] raising emotionally secure and resilient
[54:10] boys and girls while also navigating the
[54:13] [music] complexities of today's world. I
[54:15] can't recommend them enough. I know for
[54:17] sure that these books are going to
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