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Inspiration

Does Meditation Have a Dark Side? Teachers, Lineage and PTSD

Susan
Susan
Oct 16, 2026
8 min de lecture

Source : Susan Piver

À regarder · 8

The first time Susan Piver sat a long silent retreat, it was two weeks in the mountains, the setting was beautiful, the teachers were kind, and the other people were gentle. Then the gong sounded to mark the start of a sitting, and her body went off like an alarm. "I almost jumped out of my skin," she says in her podcast episode, a reaction she would later learn has a name: the startle response, common among survivors of trauma. That moment, a long way from the cushion's calm, is the doorway into her argument. In an episode built around two Atlantic articles, one from 2014 and one from 2026, she takes on the idea that meditation has a "dark side," and she does it without dismissing the warnings. Her position is that meditation itself is not the hazard. Meditation practiced without the guardrails of lineage, qualified teachers, community, and a compassionate view of oneself can amplify what a person is already carrying, and sometimes that deepens suffering rather than easing it.

Lecture · 7 sections

What is the "dark side" of meditation, and where did the idea come from?

Piver has a stake in the subject that goes beyond reading headlines. She says she lives with PTSD, diagnosed long ago by Bessel van der Kolk, and that it traces to a car accident in which she was struck by a drunk driver. She has no memory of the event. "I woke up in the hospital wondering what had happened," she recounts at the start of the episode (0:10 onward). Her point about that memory gap is subtle and important. When trauma can be attached to a clear cause, she explains, a person can build a boundary around it: she would avoid horses after a fall from one. Without an identifiable source, the threat seems to come from anywhere, and what she describes is "a perpetual sense that something terrible could come out of the blue at any moment."

That lens shapes how she reads the Atlantic pieces. She notes that the magazine published "The Dark Night of the Soul" in June 2014, with a subtitle saying that for some meditators the practice had "become more curse than cure," and then "The Dark Side of Mindfulness" in 2026, interviewing the same researcher, Dr. Britton of Providence, Rhode Island, both times. Piver's rhetorical question is pointed but fair: why two articles, twelve years apart, both built on the word "dark"? She does not claim the researcher is wrong about everything. Her objection is to the framing that blurs the line between mindfulness as a stress-reduction technique and Buddhism as a whole path.

Why does Buddhism differ from mindfulness as self-help?

This is the distinction that anchors the whole episode. Piver's first beef with the 2026 article is that it moves from "meditation helps you sleep" to "Buddhist teachings" in consecutive paragraphs, without marking any difference between them. "Buddhism has many meditation practices, that's for sure," she says (7:21). "But to devote yourself to meditation is not the same thing as devoting yourself to Buddhism." In her telling, the Dharma is a complete path to waking up from suffering, a way of living with "wisdom, compassion, and courage," and not a set of relaxation tools to be deployed on a schedule.

The difference matters because self-help frames practice as a project of improvement: something is wrong, and meditation is the fix. Piver describes the aggression that can come with that wish to repair oneself, and she argues that a more classical approach asks for something softer. The practitioner is invited to meet experience with the warmth of self-love instead of a campaign against what has gone wrong. If a meditator arrives with a hidden wound and treats the wound as an enemy to be defeated, the practice can turn into one more place to be harsh with oneself.

Does meditation make you sleep worse, and what did the study actually show?

One of the Atlantic's most-cited hooks is the sleep finding. Piver reports that the researcher began a 2004 study expecting meditation to improve sleep, and found the opposite. The article then quotes an unnamed meditation teacher: "Everybody knows if you meditate enough you stop sleeping." Piver's response is blunt. She has practiced for more than thirty years and taught for roughly fifteen, and she says she had "never heard" that claim in her life (8:51). The line, she argues, was given no source and no context, and it carries a lot of weight for a sentence that no one owns.

Her broader point is that a dramatic conclusion needs a documented teaching behind it, not an anonymous aphorism. That habit of sourcing is central to her case for lineage. Traditions that have carried these practices for centuries are not perfect, she acknowledges, but they have built checks that a viral claim does not have.

What are the guardrails that make meditation safer?

The core of the episode is Piver's list of protections, and it is more practical than mystical. The first is a trained teacher. She describes learning to meditate from her own teacher, and she is clear that the teacher is not a mere instructor. A real teacher can notice what a student is not saying, can recognize when a practice is landing badly, and can adjust. That is precisely the knowledge missing from a retreat where the schedule runs on a gong and nobody has asked about your history.

The second guardrail is lineage, the chain of teachers and the wisdom that passes through them. Piver's framing is that a lineage supplies context: why a practice exists, what it is for, and what kinds of difficulty are normal along the way. The third is sangha, community, which provides ongoing relationships rather than solitary intensity. The fourth is preparation. She points to silent retreats and intensive practice entered into without care as a common source of disorientation, especially for people carrying trauma. Meditation, she notes, is a solitary practice, which is exactly why support around it matters.

"Oh, your ego is trying to bust through a limitation." Please. That makes me mad.

That quotation, from her own account of what a teacher might have told her decades ago, is her shorthand for the failure she wants to correct. The advice was not cruel, exactly. It was incomplete. It left out the human warmth that might have reduced the fear she was feeling.

Why does meditation sometimes deepen suffering?

Among the highlights Piver flags is a claim that reframes the whole debate: meditation tends to amplify the inner state a person brings to it rather than automatically calming it. For someone who is anxious, sitting still can make the anxiety louder. For someone with unprocessed trauma, a silent room can give that trauma room to surface without the containers that normally help it settle. This is not a reason to abandon practice. It is a reason to enter practice with eyes open, a teacher available, and the expectation that difficulty may arise.

Her answer to suffering that deepens is not to push harder. It is to hold compassion, for oneself and for others, as the central purpose of practice rather than a side benefit. In her framing, compassion is what keeps the practitioner from turning every difficulty into evidence of personal failure.

What does the episode leave unresolved?

The transcript available for this piece ends before Piver's full concluding summary, where she sums up the dark side as something a person may face alone, without a wisdom tradition to guide them. Her closing argument is still clear from what she has laid out: the risk is less in the cushion than in the absence of context around it. She then turns to a different register, closing the episode with a music segment that celebrates guitarist Lowman Pauling and the Five Royales' "Think," a reminder that she sees her practice and her listening as parts of the same attention to craft.

Where to go from here

If you are considering a long retreat or an intensive practice period, Piver's episode offers a usable checklist. Ask who the teacher is and where their training comes from. Ask whether the practice you are entering belongs to a tradition with context for difficulty. Ask whether there is a community you can stay connected to afterward. And pay attention to how you talk to yourself while you sit. If the internal voice is harsh, that is a signal to bring more compassion into the work, and possibly to bring in someone who can help. Read both Atlantic articles with the distinction she draws in mind: mindfulness as a technique is one thing, and Buddhism as a path of waking up is another, and conflating them obscures the very guidance that makes practice safer.

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Transcript

[0:10] Hello, my name is Susan Piver. I'm a

[0:12] writer and long-time practitioner and

[0:15] teacher of Buddhism.

[0:17] I've come to see that many people think

[0:18] of Buddhism and meditation practices

[0:22] associated with it, like mindfulness, as

[0:24] ways to reduce stress, but I would like

[0:27] to tell you that the Buddhist path is

[0:29] far more rich than that.

[0:31] It is a way to wake up, to become

[0:34] liberated from suffering,

[0:36] and forget about enlightenment, it's

[0:37] also a way to live your everyday life

[0:40] more fully and meaningfully.

[0:43] This podcast is to share with you

[0:45] classical Buddhist teachings that I have

[0:46] found enormously beneficial, and also to

[0:49] tell stories from my own life about how

[0:51] I applied and misapplied these

[0:53] teachings. And I do want to tell you

[0:55] from my more than 30 years of experience

[0:58] that the Dharma is real, and it provides

[1:02] an extraordinarily nuanced, profound,

[1:06] and pragmatic guidebook to living a life

[1:10] of wisdom, compassion, and courage.

[1:16] I want to start this conversation about

[1:19] so-called, but also very real, dark side

[1:22] of mindfulness, as it was recently

[1:24] called in Atlantic magazine, by saying I

[1:28] have PTSD. Many, many people do, and I

[1:31] am among them. This is not a diagnosis

[1:33] that I gave myself. I was actually

[1:35] diagnosed long ago by Bessel van der

[1:37] Kolk, one of the leading thinkers in

[1:41] modern views of cause and treatment for

[1:44] PTSD. I even had treatment from him

[1:47] briefly a long time ago.

[1:48] And the reason I have PTSD, as far as I

[1:51] know,

[1:52] is that I was in a very bad car accident

[1:55] a long time ago. I may have mentioned

[1:56] this in other episodes of this podcast.

[1:59] I was hit by a drunk driver. I didn't

[2:01] see it coming. No one expected me to

[2:04] live.

[2:05] I had injuries to my organs that were

[2:08] almost always fatal.

[2:10] And I have no

[2:12] memory whatsoever of this event.

[2:15] All I know is I woke up in the hospital

[2:18] wondering what had happened. And it was

[2:20] told to me, you were hit by a drunk

[2:22] driver. You were thrown out of the

[2:23] passenger door. You landed on some

[2:25] grass. An ambulance came. These were

[2:27] your injuries. And I'm listening like,

[2:30] what are you people talking about?

[2:32] In other words, they could have told me

[2:33] anything. They could have said, you were

[2:34] abducted by aliens and we found you on

[2:37] the street. And I would have been, oh,

[2:39] well, I guess that's what happened. So,

[2:42] one of the reasons I'm mentioning this

[2:43] is when there is a trauma that you

[2:46] cannot remember,

[2:48] although I see evidence of it in my body

[2:50] and my movement all the time, it creates

[2:52] a particular flavor of trauma

[2:56] because the source of the trauma cannot

[2:58] be assigned. In other words, if I had

[3:00] fallen off a horse, I would say to

[3:03] myself, well, don't get back on a horse.

[3:05] Then I might be able to calm down as

[3:06] long as I wasn't on a horse or wasn't

[3:08] watching a movie of a person on a horse.

[3:10] But because I can't assign it to

[3:12] anything, it has created, I've learned

[3:15] in the intervening years, cuz this was

[3:17] many years ago,

[3:18] that there's a perpetual sense that

[3:21] something terrible could come out of the

[3:23] blue

[3:25] at any moment and take my life.

[3:28] P.S. That happens to be true, and not

[3:30] just for me. It's

[3:32] a weird thing.

[3:33] However, I am hope that most of us don't

[3:36] walk around thinking that. But in my

[3:39] mind, in my body, in my psychology, part

[3:42] of me does, even though again, it was

[3:44] many years ago.

[3:45] The source of trauma is in the

[3:48] environment, not attached to a

[3:50] particular set of circumstances. So,

[3:53] why am I telling you all this? The first

[3:55] time I went on a long meditation

[3:56] retreat, it was 2 weeks, it was in the

[3:58] mountains, it was beautiful, the

[3:59] teachers were great,

[4:01] the other people were nice. I noticed

[4:03] almost immediately every time the gong

[4:05] was rang to signal the beginning or end

[4:08] of a meditation session,

[4:10] I almost jumped out of my skin.

[4:13] I startled so hard and I learned

[4:15] subsequently that this is called a

[4:17] startle response, which is something not

[4:21] uncommon at all with survivors of

[4:23] trauma. So, back then, this is 25 years

[4:26] ago, there was not sensitivity to such

[4:30] things, certainly in the general

[4:32] population and

[4:34] also certainly not among meditation

[4:36] teachers.

[4:37] So, the advice that someone like me

[4:39] would have gotten if I had talked to

[4:40] anyone about it, which I didn't, was

[4:44] "Oh, your ego is trying to bust through

[4:47] a limitation."

[4:49] Please.

[4:50] That makes me mad.

[4:52] Or, "Just sit with it." is the most

[4:55] conventional response, at least it would

[4:57] have been back then.

[4:58] "Just watch it arise, abide, and

[5:00] dissolve." That's not bad advice,

[5:03] but it leaves out a piece of human

[5:06] warmth and understanding that could have

[5:10] mitigated fear on the heart of the

[5:12] practitioner, namely myself in this

[5:14] case.

[5:15] So, I just want to bring that up before

[5:19] I talk to you about this article in The

[5:22] Atlantic called The Dark Side of

[5:25] Mindfulness, because many people sent it

[5:27] to me.

[5:28] When I read it, I thought, "I think I've

[5:30] read this before." It was published in

[5:33] September of 2026, and I went and did a

[5:36] little mousing around online and found

[5:39] that indeed the

[5:41] Atlantic had published another article

[5:44] called The Dark Night of the Soul, and

[5:47] for some reason they spelled it k n i g

[5:50] h t. The subtitle for some meditation

[5:53] has become more curse than cure and this

[5:55] was published in June of 2014.

[5:59] Both articles interviewed the same

[6:00] person, a noted researcher named Dr.

[6:03] Britton in Providence, Rhode Island. I'm

[6:05] sure she's very smart and wonderful and

[6:07] insightful.

[6:09] And I just found it interesting that

[6:10] they basically published two articles,

[6:14] you know, 12 years apart with some

[6:16] suspicions

[6:18] about meditation as it was called in the

[6:20] first article in 2014

[6:22] or mindfulness as it was called in the

[6:24] current article from last month. In both

[6:28] articles, the word dark was used. The

[6:30] dark night of the soul, the dark side of

[6:33] mindfulness.

[6:35] Okay, well, there is a dark side and I

[6:37] want to talk to you in this episode

[6:39] about becoming sensitive to that, why

[6:42] that might happen, why is there a dark

[6:44] side, and what to look out for. And

[6:47] then, we're going to go back to the

[6:48] podcast after party post this

[6:51] conversation where I share a song with

[6:53] you that I love and explain why I love

[6:56] it and hope you will love it, too. So,

[6:58] in the current article, it begins with

[7:01] some history about Dr. Britton in 2004.

[7:04] She did a study on meditation, which she

[7:08] thought would prove that it helps you

[7:11] sleep better.

[7:12] Okay, meditation could help you sleep

[7:14] better. Got it. The next paragraph says,

[7:18] "She had become deeply invested in

[7:20] Buddhist teachings."

[7:21] So, what I want to point out here is the

[7:23] first paragraph talks about meditation

[7:25] as being helpful.

[7:27] The second paragraph talks about

[7:29] Buddhist teachings. But nowhere does it

[7:31] say

[7:32] that these are different things.

[7:35] Buddhist teachings about meditation are

[7:38] certainly profound and real. I've

[7:39] devoted my in to them.

[7:41] However, it would be incorrect to

[7:43] conflate mindfulness

[7:46] with Buddhism.

[7:48] Buddhism has many meditation practices,

[7:50] that's for sure. But right away in this

[7:52] article, there's no sense of delineating

[7:55] between the world of mindfulness and the

[7:57] world of Buddhist teachings.

[7:59] It's very important to make that

[8:01] delineation yourself when you are trying

[8:04] to make your own decisions about this

[8:06] dark side, where does it come from, what

[8:08] does it mean, how does it happen?

[8:10] Because right away it's casting

[8:11] aspersion not just on

[8:14] mindfulness, as again they call it, but

[8:16] on Buddhist teachings.

[8:18] Yeah, some of them are not very helpful.

[8:20] But to devote yourself to meditation is

[8:23] not the same thing as devoting yourself

[8:25] to Buddhism.

[8:26] So, I think that's important to point

[8:28] out. She finds out in her study about

[8:31] meditation helping people sleep better

[8:33] is that it's actually the opposite.

[8:36] It helps people sleep worse.

[8:38] Well, how can that be, she wonders. So,

[8:39] she talked to an unnamed meditation

[8:42] teacher, {quote} {unquote}, who said,

[8:44] "Everybody knows if you meditate enough

[8:46] you stop sleeping." That's a quote from,

[8:48] again, the unnamed meditation teacher.

[8:51] I never heard that in my whole life.

[8:53] I've been practicing for over 30 years

[8:56] and I've been teaching for maybe 15 and

[8:58] I never heard in my whole life everybody

[9:01] knows this thing that we stop sleeping.

[9:04] I don't know where that came from. This

[9:05] person wasn't named.

[9:07] This conclusion was not attributed to

[9:10] anything.

[9:12] So, okay, well,

[9:13] according to the article, again, Dr.

[9:15] Britton said, "Well, what else aren't

[9:16] you telling us about meditation?"

[9:18] So, the article unfolds from there

[9:21] talking about things that you might not

[9:22] know about meditation. And okay, that is

[9:25] useful. I have no problem with any of

[9:26] this, personally.

[9:28] However, what I would say is that part

[9:31] of what contributes to darkness or

[9:34] difficulty

[9:35] resulting from meditation practice

[9:38] is the idea that meditation practice

[9:41] is designed to help you do anything

[9:45] better.

[9:46] Sleep better, be patient better,

[9:49] lead better, perform better,

[9:53] be nicer better.

[9:55] That's all incorrect. If I was titling

[9:58] this article, I might have titled it

[10:00] something like the dark side of

[10:03] self-help industry, not the dark side of

[10:05] mindfulness, but when mindfulness is

[10:08] co-opted into self-help,

[10:11] it's going to fix you.

[10:12] Well, that is not what it was designed

[10:15] for.

[10:16] So, it's a square peg in a round hole

[10:18] situation.

[10:20] It's a spiritual practice.

[10:22] It's not a fix-me practice.

[10:25] Spiritual practices come with

[10:28] warnings, or should,

[10:30] caveats,

[10:32] and cautions, none of which are included

[10:36] if you go to an app to learn meditation

[10:39] or get instruction from a friend that

[10:40] just did a mindfulness course.

[10:42] It's extremely important. This is what I

[10:45] was taught. And when I teach people how

[10:47] to teach meditation, I try to impart

[10:49] this without hesitation.

[10:52] If you want to learn to meditate, it's

[10:54] important to learn from a teacher who

[10:56] has been trained to teach meditation

[11:00] because it creates a complex sequence of

[11:04] responses that cannot be predicted. I

[11:06] don't care what science says. Get out of

[11:08] here, science, for a minute. Each of us

[11:11] responds differently when we sit with

[11:14] ourselves in silence.

[11:16] One of the things that seems to happen

[11:18] to almost all of us, each in our own

[11:20] way,

[11:21] is not that we become quieter or more

[11:24] peaceful.

[11:26] Meditation amplifies

[11:28] the inner state. It does not peace it

[11:31] out. So, if your inner state is bored or

[11:35] heartbroken or sleepy or excited,

[11:39] you will notice more directly what it

[11:42] feels like to be those things.

[11:44] When you next sit down, if you're

[11:46] feeling all sorts of other thing,

[11:48] you will notice those other things more

[11:51] viscerally.

[11:52] So, it does not quiet you.

[11:55] It enters you more deeply into your

[11:58] experience. Then what? Well, that's

[12:01] where the dark side can come up if

[12:02] there's no one there to help you answer

[12:04] that question.

[12:05] Then what? So, in no way am I saying you

[12:08] need a guru or to look for someone

[12:10] dressed in robes tell you what to do.

[12:12] You have to figure it out.

[12:15] What we need

[12:16] on the path,

[12:18] especially in the beginning,

[12:20] is not gurus or

[12:22] people that try to tell you what to do.

[12:25] We need friends.

[12:27] A meditation teacher is a spiritual

[12:29] friend, Kalyana Mitra in Sanskrit, not a

[12:34] teacher

[12:35] in the conventional sense.

[12:37] I am a friend

[12:39] who has been doing this longer than you.

[12:41] That's it.

[12:42] So, it's important to learn from someone

[12:44] that has been trained to teach, not

[12:45] because

[12:46] they're enlightened, unless they are,

[12:48] which would be awesome,

[12:49] but because they have more experience

[12:51] than you

[12:52] and can help you sense the twists and

[12:55] turns as a friend.

[12:57] So, the first article published by the

[12:58] Atlantic on this topic, Dark Night of

[13:00] Soul, k n i g h t, again, I don't know

[13:03] why it's like the dude in the armor not

[13:06] like what happens when daytime is over.

[13:08] It talks about a person, a young man

[13:12] named David,

[13:13] who went on a lengthy retreat and

[13:17] started freaking out, basically. Had

[13:19] some sort of a mental break or a

[13:21] psychotic break, I'm not sure. The

[13:23] article doesn't say, but it does

[13:25] describe what sounds like some kind of a

[13:27] break. Seeing visions of devils and

[13:31] hearing or sensing the presence of

[13:35] something that wants you to kill

[13:36] yourself. Very bad. Very, very bad.

[13:39] Confusing

[13:40] at best.

[13:42] Terrifying

[13:43] at worst. Is this the fault of

[13:46] meditation? Well, meditation, I would

[13:48] say, played a role. And I again, I don't

[13:50] know how I just read this article like

[13:52] everybody else.

[13:53] But what I would guess

[13:56] is more likely to be culpable

[14:00] is not the practice of meditation, but

[14:03] the environment that surrounded the

[14:06] practice of meditation

[14:08] in this particular retreat. My guess is

[14:11] that this was a silent retreat

[14:14] where all forms of communication were

[14:17] contraindicated, meaning not just

[14:19] talking, but looking at people and

[14:21] smiling at them and gesturing and that

[14:23] kind of thing. And that can be a

[14:25] powerful and wonderful experience to

[14:27] just quiet yourself so thoroughly within

[14:32] the container of a community. For the

[14:35] vast majority of people that do such

[14:37] things, it's beneficial, powerful.

[14:40] But for some, what is amplified within

[14:44] becomes increasingly frightening when

[14:47] there is no one to talk to about it. Or

[14:50] when you do talk to someone about it,

[14:52] they say, "Just sit with it." Or your

[14:56] ego's busting through some karmic

[14:58] limitation or some other such

[15:01] When a person needs care and support and

[15:05] warmth on the spiritual path, it should

[15:08] not be withheld in the name of someone's

[15:10] rulebook. Nor should it be offered by

[15:13] people who are making up,

[15:15] unqualified. That's why it's important

[15:17] to learn with a teacher, a meditation

[15:19] teacher. So, both articles further go on

[15:22] to say meditation is a multi-billion

[15:24] dollar industry with some sense that

[15:27] meditation is trying to hoodwink you or

[15:29] pull the wool over your eyes and yeah,

[15:31] there are some people out there that are

[15:32] full of and that are trying to

[15:33] hoodwink you and pull the wool over your

[15:35] eyes and get your cash money and not

[15:37] leave you with anything for it.

[15:39] That's not my experience of

[15:41] the world of meditation within Buddhism.

[15:45] It is, however, very good clickbait. So,

[15:48] you know, kudos for that. So, there are

[15:50] certain things to look for in a

[15:52] meditation retreat or meditation

[15:54] environment or class that can construct

[15:59] guardrails for your experience.

[16:02] The first guardrail is already

[16:05] mentioned, learn from someone who has

[16:08] been trained to teach. Second, from

[16:11] within a lineage that is more than 2,500

[16:15] years old.

[16:17] That's the line in the sand that I would

[16:19] like to draw.

[16:20] You don't have to join that lineage, you

[16:22] don't have to shave your head, you don't

[16:23] have to wear robes, you don't have to

[16:24] chant things in other languages, but

[16:27] your teacher should be rooted in lineage

[16:30] and they should not try to make you be

[16:32] in that lineage. If so, you should

[16:34] leave.

[16:35] The truth about meditation instruction

[16:37] or a truth and when I teach others how

[16:39] to teach,

[16:40] I try to also emphasize this.

[16:44] It's not an explanation.

[16:46] When you teach someone to meditate, it

[16:48] is a transmission

[16:50] rather than an explanation. So, it has

[16:53] nothing to do with wearing flowing

[16:55] garments or chanting mantras or casting

[16:59] spells.

[17:00] What it means is that I, I'll use myself

[17:03] as an example because I'm the one

[17:05] chatting. I was taught to meditate by my

[17:08] teacher. Sam, his name is Sam. He was

[17:11] taught to meditate by his teacher,

[17:13] Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche,

[17:15] as it happens. Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche,

[17:18] a controversial, magical, powerful,

[17:20] unknowable Tibetan meditation master,

[17:24] was taught by his teachers, one of whom

[17:26] was called Khenpo Gangshar. Khenpo

[17:29] Gangshar was taught by his teacher, who

[17:32] was taught by her teacher, who was

[17:33] taught by their teacher, on and on and

[17:36] on, presumably back to the historic

[17:38] Buddha. So, this does not mean that I or

[17:41] Sam or anyone is sitting in for Buddha.

[17:44] It does, however, mean there is some

[17:46] kind of an unbroken line. A handoff has

[17:50] been made over 2,500 years, presumably.

[17:53] I'm sure it's more complicated than

[17:54] that. And now I'm talking about it. And

[17:57] if you train to teach, then you'll be

[17:59] talking about it. That through line is

[18:02] what creates the transmission quality.

[18:05] It makes meditation instruction

[18:08] something more powerful than an

[18:11] explanation of how you can fix yourself.

[18:14] When meditation is some aspect of

[18:17] self-help, a way to fix yourself,

[18:19] you know, including really difficult

[18:21] problems like not being able to sleep

[18:23] and having anger issues and things that

[18:25] Yeah, please try to fix those if you

[18:27] have them. I hope you will be

[18:28] successful.

[18:29] But when meditation is included in a

[18:32] self-help regimen,

[18:33] it is co-opted by the self-help view

[18:37] that you are broken and you need to be

[18:39] fixed.

[18:40] Hell, I'm broken. I need to be fixed.

[18:43] Cool. Please, bring on your self-help.

[18:45] I'll take what you're offering.

[18:48] However, meditation does not belong in

[18:50] that matrix because meditation starts

[18:53] from the opposite point of view, which

[18:55] is you are completely whole, full,

[19:00] worthy, integrated, brilliant, right

[19:04] now.

[19:05] That's how you were born. Any notion to

[19:07] the contrary is a sign of confusion, and

[19:10] the confusion needs to be attended to,

[19:12] not the issues that created the

[19:14] confusion.

[19:15] So, I hope you can see what I'm talking

[19:17] about here. Meditation on the self-help

[19:20] menu starts with you're broken. Well,

[19:24] that's not where meditation comes from.

[19:27] Meditation comes from

[19:29] your brain. Please relax sufficiently so

[19:32] that you can see that.

[19:34] When you see it fully, presumably, your

[19:36] ability to help others to also see that

[19:39] will be vastly enhanced.

[19:42] And that is among the primary points of

[19:45] meditation practice.

[19:47] To help you to be of greater benefit in

[19:51] this world.

[19:52] To show you the true meaning of

[19:55] compassion.

[19:56] Beginning with compassion for yourself,

[19:58] because without that, there's no

[19:59] compassion for anyone else.

[20:02] And then how to deploy

[20:04] compassion, which stems from a vastly

[20:06] open heart, without losing your F'ing

[20:08] mind.

[20:10] That's why we practice. Sure, we may

[20:12] start out practicing because we've got

[20:14] all these problems.

[20:15] Because I have stress and I have other

[20:18] issues and meditation might help me.

[20:20] Yeah, it might.

[20:21] But that's just the start. The next step

[20:23] is how can you help others?

[20:26] And any meditation tradition that does

[20:28] not emphasize that, this is why we're

[20:31] doing it, has been lost in the swamp of

[20:34] Western culture.

[20:35] So, lineage, very important. Not because

[20:38] anyone wants you to be any other

[20:40] religion or adopt beliefs, but because

[20:43] it's what gives the practice and the

[20:45] environment of the practice

[20:48] depth and gravitas and the ability to

[20:51] hold your experience

[20:54] 95% of the time, cuz there are always

[20:56] exceptions.

[20:58] I'm going to mention one in a moment.

[20:59] What is also necessary in constructing

[21:02] guardrails for your practice, which

[21:03] again, is your mind trying to to at your

[21:05] mind. That's a very nuanced, delicate

[21:08] thing. You don't want to just plop down

[21:10] and try to do that. You want some

[21:12] container, some infrastructure,

[21:14] some guardrails for doing so. So,

[21:16] lineage, as mentioned, is one.

[21:19] And the other is other folks,

[21:21] sanga, Sanskrit for community,

[21:24] to practice with others, whether you're

[21:27] in real time with them or you just know

[21:28] they're out there. We need each other.

[21:31] Meditation, of course, is a solitary

[21:33] pursuit. Most of us do it most of the

[21:36] time alone. That's fine.

[21:39] But every once in a while, to go and sit

[21:41] with others

[21:42] is very, very not just important, it's

[21:45] necessary for your practice to deepen.

[21:49] And I've talked about that in other

[21:50] episodes. I won't talk about why that is

[21:52] so.

[21:53] But for now, let's just say

[21:55] it's so. In my observation, my

[21:57] experience, and also according to the

[21:59] Buddha Dharma.

[22:00] So, as mentioned in the beginning,

[22:01] meditation does not quiet you. It

[22:04] amplifies the inner state.

[22:06] There could be utility in that,

[22:08] but only when these guardrails are very

[22:10] firm, and you have support, and you have

[22:14] guidance.

[22:15] Now, most of the meditation retreats

[22:17] that happen in our world, Western

[22:20] culture, are modeled on monastic

[22:24] retreats.

[22:25] I happen to love a monastic retreat.

[22:28] You go away from your life, you quiet

[22:30] down, and the retreats mentioned in

[22:33] these Atlantic articles, you zip your

[22:35] pie hole, you stop talking, not just to

[22:38] other people, but you stop communicating

[22:41] nonverbally.

[22:42] What do you think that does to the

[22:44] amplification?

[22:46] It makes it even louder. Further, in a

[22:49] monastic setting, you have a schedule.

[22:52] It's not hard to stick to, because

[22:53] everyone's doing it, so you just go

[22:55] along, and it's wonderful.

[22:56] I love it. I love retreats. I love

[22:58] teaching them, and I love being a

[22:59] student on retreats.

[23:01] However,

[23:02] when the retreat is over, we have to

[23:04] come home. And it can be quite jarring,

[23:07] especially after 10 days or 2 weeks or a

[23:10] month, cuz you're not coming back to a

[23:11] monastery. You're coming back to

[23:13] whatever the craziness of your

[23:15] particular world. As practitioners, we

[23:18] are what is called

[23:20] householders.

[23:21] There are three paths to enlightenment,

[23:23] at least in the Buddhist tradition I was

[23:25] trained in.

[23:27] The first is the monastic tradition.

[23:29] You go away, and you don't come back.

[23:32] You devote yourself to

[23:34] deep contemplation and realization. And

[23:37] you live in community, and you don't

[23:38] have bills, and you're probably not

[23:40] married, and

[23:41] you don't have to pick your outfit every

[23:43] day, it's picked out for you. And it's a

[23:45] quiet environment arranged

[23:48] to support deep inner seeing.

[23:51] That's great. However, that's just one

[23:53] of three.

[23:54] Second is called the wandering mendicant

[23:58] or a forest yogi, someone who goes out

[24:01] with a begging bowl or sits in a cave

[24:03] for

[24:04] 3 months or 3 years or 3 lifetimes, just

[24:08] calming all external inputs to focus

[24:12] exclusively on attainment of liberation.

[24:16] And you throw yourself on the mercy of

[24:19] the world to bring you food, deny you

[24:22] food, same with warmth, same with

[24:25] shelter. You just throw yourself on the

[24:28] winds of circumstance.

[24:30] Curiosity and commitment.

[24:32] But you don't have a family or bills or

[24:35] a lawn to mow, for example.

[24:38] So, you and I, my friends, I

[24:41] venture to guess, are not doing those

[24:43] paths. We're not monastics, and we're

[24:46] not sitting in a cave.

[24:48] We are the third type of practitioner

[24:50] called the householder.

[24:52] Someone who lives in a house,

[24:54] presumably,

[24:56] or lives somewhere, and has bills and

[24:59] relationships and

[25:01] messes and outfits and problems and

[25:04] money worries and all the things that we

[25:06] have.

[25:07] When you exit the householder life and

[25:10] enter the monastic life without

[25:13] transition

[25:14] and then when you exit similarly without

[25:17] transition

[25:18] it can be very jarring. Just to reuse

[25:21] that word.

[25:22] So, it's important when you go on a

[25:24] retreat should you go on one and I hope

[25:26] you will because they're awesome to not

[25:28] deep dive into a monastic experience.

[25:31] That's my advice.

[25:33] But to deep dive into meditation

[25:35] practice with a sense of other human

[25:37] being around you who are rooting for

[25:40] you, a teacher who is caring about you,

[25:42] meals that are shared with quiet

[25:45] conversation

[25:47] human beings that you can sense around

[25:50] you, people you can talk to.

[25:52] Not gibber-jabber to

[25:54] but when meditation sessions are

[25:56] concluded

[25:58] there's some sense of

[25:59] we're doing this together.

[26:01] Someone cares about me and what I'm

[26:03] experiencing.

[26:05] We need that.

[26:06] Human beings need that, but householders

[26:08] entering a monastic setting need it

[26:11] particularly, otherwise it can be

[26:13] disorienting.

[26:14] The last thing I'll say is that

[26:16] if this is you

[26:18] please try to stop doing this.

[26:20] There can be a macho way of looking at

[26:24] deep retreat.

[26:26] Like I'm going to conquer something. I'm

[26:28] going to bust through something. I'm

[26:31] going to expose and dispense of

[26:34] something. These are violent aggressive

[26:36] terms.

[26:37] And if I can sit there and zip it for 10

[26:40] days or 5 days or whatever it is, I will

[26:43] have accomplished something. Well, maybe

[26:45] you will, but the fact that you did it

[26:47] is not an indication of such.

[26:49] Or I'm going to go sit in the dark.

[26:52] Dark retreats are an ancient, powerful,

[26:56] profound part of Vajrayana Buddhism, the

[26:59] tradition that I was trained in. So, in

[27:01] no way am I casting aspersions on dark

[27:03] retreat. I've never done one.

[27:05] But, my guess is if you enter one

[27:07] without a lot

[27:10] of preparation, and by preparation I

[27:12] mean

[27:13] decades, years at least,

[27:16] of practice

[27:17] with a teacher, a dark retreat, which is

[27:20] what you might imagine if you've never

[27:22] heard of it. You're on a meditation

[27:23] retreat, but dark. All the windows are

[27:25] blocked, or you're sitting in a tiny

[27:26] room by yourself with no light. I can

[27:30] imagine that that is a profound

[27:32] preparation for the dying process.

[27:34] I can also imagine that if you just go,

[27:36] "Oh, that sounds like really hard. I

[27:38] want to do that and master it." That

[27:40] could be a really bad idea. Leave any

[27:44] macho wish to accomplish at the door.

[27:47] So, to conclude, I would say the dark

[27:49] night

[27:51] uh

[27:52] meditation, or the dark side of

[27:55] mindfulness, could more easily or

[27:57] correctly be called the dark side of

[28:00] aggression

[28:02] within spiritual practice.

[28:04] The dark side of entering an ancient

[28:08] tradition without guidance,

[28:11] and then expecting yourself to make

[28:14] sense of it.

[28:15] And if you can't, to despair. Or the

[28:18] dark side of trying to do it all by

[28:21] yourself, without wisdom tradition to

[28:24] hold you, would have been a more

[28:26] accurate title for these articles that

[28:29] issue warnings that are very important,

[28:32] but a little hollow at the same time.

[28:41] Now, for the podcast after party, where

[28:44] I play a song that I love and tell you

[28:46] why I love it, and hope that you will

[28:48] love it, too.

[28:49] So, the track that I want to play for

[28:50] you in this episode is called Think, t h

[28:54] i n k, as recorded by a group that

[28:58] started in the '40s

[28:59] and recorded into the mid-'60s called

[29:02] The Five Royales.

[29:04] The Five Royales

[29:06] were very important band in the history

[29:09] of rock and roll, in my opinion, and not

[29:12] just mine, other people think this, too.

[29:14] They were one of the first bridges

[29:17] of gospel into rock and roll. And part

[29:20] of what made that bridge so magnetizing

[29:23] was the sound of the guitar and the

[29:26] genius of the guitar player of The Five

[29:30] Royales, who's also the main songwriter,

[29:32] named Lowman Pauling, l o w m a n,

[29:36] Pauling, Lowman Pauling. I could say

[29:38] things about his guitar sound, but

[29:40] you'll hear it, and that'll be much

[29:41] better than anything I could say, but

[29:43] it's

[29:44] dinging

[29:45] and responsive in a way that guitar was

[29:50] not usually played back then. Again, I'm

[29:53] not a musician, not a guitar player.

[29:55] However, until sometime in the '50s,

[29:58] guitar was a rhythm instrument. It was

[30:01] not a lead instrument. If you look at

[30:03] old movies with bands and there's a

[30:05] guitar player, they're keeping the beat.

[30:07] They're not stepping out and soloing

[30:08] like sax players or trumpet players or

[30:11] piano players. Guitarists were in the

[30:14] background. The way Lowman Pauling

[30:16] played guitar, he Of course, he wasn't

[30:18] the first, but it brought the guitar

[30:20] right up front, and it made it central

[30:22] to the song. It's particularly notable

[30:25] in the composition called Think, which

[30:27] you may have heard because other people

[30:29] have recorded it like I think Mick

[30:31] Jagger. Lowman Pauling influenced a

[30:34] number of exceptional guitar players,

[30:37] one of whom was named Eric Clapton. I

[30:39] read that in an interview, anyway. And

[30:42] also, the great

[30:44] and probably not a very nice person, I

[30:46] don't know. But, not to cast aspersions

[30:49] on the greatness of his guitar playing,

[30:50] Steve Cropper, who came to fame in

[30:53] Booker T and the MGs in the late '60s, I

[30:56] think it was. Could have been mid-'60s.

[30:58] Steve Cropper produced a tribute album

[31:00] to the Five Royales, you know, 20 years

[31:02] ago or something, because of his love

[31:05] for their style and the sound of Lowman

[31:08] Pauling's guitar. So, have a listen.

[31:10] And please enjoy and respect the

[31:13] greatness of Lowman Pauling and the Five

[31:16] Royales. See you next time.

[31:21] >> Think.

[31:23] Think.

[31:25] Think.

[31:26] Think about the sacrifices

[31:29] that I made for you.

[31:33] Think of all the times

[31:37] that I spent with you.

[31:41] Think of all the good things

[31:45] that I done for you.

[31:48] Think of all the bad things

[31:52] I tried not to do.

[31:55] So, come on, baby, and

[31:57] >> Think.

[31:59] Think.

[32:01] Think.

[32:03] Think about THE GOOD THINGS.

[32:05] >> THINK.

[32:06] THINK.

[32:08] THINK.

[32:10] THINK ABOUT THE RIGHT THINGS.

[32:12] >> THINK.

[32:14] THINK.

[32:16] THINK.

[32:18] Think about THE BEST THINGS. AND MAYBE

[32:20] before you leave me, you realize

[32:23] I'm the one that loved you.

[32:49] >> How much of all your happiness

[32:53] have I really claimed?

[32:57] How many tears have you cried?

[33:01] For which of us is to blame?

[33:05] No, I can't remember

[33:08] which was my fault.

[33:12] I tried so hard to please you.

[33:16] At least that's what I thought.

[33:19] So, come on, sugar, and think.

[33:23] Think.

[33:25] Think.

[33:26] Think. ABOUT THE GOOD THINGS. THINK.

[33:30] THINK.

[33:32] THINK.

[33:34] ABOUT THE RIGHT THINGS. THINK.

[33:38] THINK.

[33:40] THINK.

[33:42] About the best things. And maybe before

[33:45] you leave me, you'll realize I'm the one

[33:48] to love you.

Susan
ArtistSusan

Susan Piver is a Buddhist teacher, New York Times bestselling author, and founder of the Open Heart Project, a dharma community of nearly 20,000 members living an awakened life.

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Questions fréquemment posées

Susan Piver argues that meditation can amplify whatever inner state a person brings to it, which for some people, especially those with unprocessed trauma, can deepen suffering. She locates the real risk in practicing without a qualified teacher, lineage, community, and preparation, rather than in meditation itself.
Piver describes her own startle response at the gong during a two-week retreat, a reaction common among trauma survivors. Silent intensive practice can give traumatic material room to surface without the support that normally helps it settle, which is why she stresses preparation and care.
Piver says mindfulness is often marketed as stress reduction or self-help, while Buddhism is a complete path to liberation from suffering that includes meditation as one part. She warns that merging the two obscures the context and guidance that make practice safer.
As Piver describes the 2026 Atlantic piece, a 2004 study by Dr. Britton of Providence expected meditation to improve sleep but found it did the opposite, and an unnamed teacher was quoted saying that everyone knows meditating enough stops sleep. Piver disputes that anonymous claim, noting she has never heard it in more than thirty years of practice.
Piver argues that a trained teacher can notice when a student is struggling and adjust the practice, while lineage supplies context about why practices exist and what difficulty is normal. Together with sangha, or community, these guardrails are what she considers essential for intensive or long-term practice.
Piver recommends approaching practice with the warmth of self-love rather than the aggression of trying to fix yourself, and treating compassion for yourself and others as the central purpose. She also suggests working with a trained teacher and being cautious with silent retreats entered without preparation.

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Filling the Empty Places: Why Craving Starts With What's Missing
Inspire

Filling the Empty Places: Why Craving Starts With What's Missing

Rick Hanson's talk reorders the Four Noble Truths to start with craving, tracing restless longing to unmet early needs and how the brain can…

11 min read
Yoga Nidra for Wholeness: Sankalpa and Body Scan Guide
Inspire

Yoga Nidra for Wholeness: Sankalpa and Body Scan Guide

A 35-minute guided Yoga Nidra rest that moves from breath to sankalpa to a full body scan and back to waking. Here is how its structure work…

9 min read
Why You Give Your Power Away, and How to Take It Back
Inspire

Why You Give Your Power Away, and How to Take It Back

Sue Morter's bioenergetics framework says looking for blockages is itself the blockage. Here's how attention, triggers and self-responsibili…

9 min read

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