Transcript
[0:09] Coming up today on The Pulse.
[0:11] >> You can't just give someone a hug
[0:13] anymore. You got to like hug on the left
[0:15] side, hug on the right side, because
[0:17] that's where everything aligns. And
[0:19] before you know it, now you're not
[0:20] living the true feeling and essence of
[0:24] [music] what's authentic.
[0:27] But I think there is this this inner
[0:29] thing that we all have that can sense
[0:31] like ah wait a minute what I'm doing
[0:33] [music] is performative [snorts] and
[0:35] it's not real. Do you have any like tips
[0:38] or things that like keep you on track
[0:43] [music]
[0:43] that he could look at someone and hold
[0:45] the
[0:47] ultimate truth of of the perfection of
[0:51] all and reflect that back to someone.
[0:59] Today I'm joined by a voice that cuts
[1:02] through the noise of the modern
[1:03] spiritual marketplace with rare clarity
[1:06] and compassion. Coot Blackon is a
[1:08] world-renowned author and
[1:10] transformational teacher who invites us
[1:12] to stop performing our spirituality and
[1:15] just start living it. He is a guide for
[1:17] those who are tired of the optimization
[1:19] trap and ready to face the messy sacred
[1:22] reality of who they really are.
[1:24] Together, we're going to peel back the
[1:26] layers of spiritual identity, explore
[1:29] the clever disguises of the ego, and
[1:31] find the courage to sit with the shadows
[1:33] that the wellness industry often teaches
[1:36] us to bypass. Welcome to the podcast,
[1:38] Coot.
[1:39] >> Thanks for having me, man. Appreciate
[1:41] it.
[1:41] >> Yeah. Well, let's just dive right in.
[1:43] Um, the the big topic of the day is
[1:46] spirituality versus spiritual identity.
[1:49] Um and so how can spiritual practice
[1:53] become a curated identity that helps the
[1:56] ego feel special, safe or you know
[1:59] better than others?
[2:02] Yeah. I think whenever we
[2:05] become attached to something, it can
[2:08] become a limitation.
[2:10] Whenever we become overly identified
[2:12] with something as a concept and hold on
[2:15] to it tightly,
[2:17] it restricts our authentic expression.
[2:21] In that moment, I would say we become
[2:24] frozen. We're no longer feeling deeply.
[2:28] We're no longer feeling authentically.
[2:31] We're living in the past. And I think
[2:34] many times true spirituality is a
[2:40] living experience. True spirituality I
[2:43] feel is a living experience of being
[2:49] connected to and in touch with
[2:53] with spirit with life with the true
[2:57] essence of one's being. And I think when
[3:00] we're truly in touch with the real
[3:04] essence of one's being and allowing that
[3:07] to inform us, allowing that to express,
[3:12] allowing that to move us, allowing
[3:16] allowing ourselves to be lived by you
[3:20] know that force of life itself which is
[3:25] living everything.
[3:27] uh then I think spirituality becomes
[3:30] something that is not uh uh a routine.
[3:36] Spirituality is then not something that
[3:38] is a performance uh or or a rehearsal or
[3:43] a dogma, right? But it's something that
[3:46] is living you and you're living in
[3:49] relationship to it. And
[3:52] it's not a museum of the past, you know?
[3:55] It's it's a fresh alive relationship
[3:58] with life itself and all of existence.
[4:02] And so um yeah, I think that I was
[4:06] thinking the other day as I go through
[4:09] my own evolution, you know, I've been on
[4:11] the spiritual path, you could say a long
[4:13] time. My father uh is a minister and has
[4:16] 300 churches in Ghana, West Africa. My
[4:18] first memories as a young boy was seeing
[4:21] I remember being probably six or seven
[4:23] years old and seeing a crippled woman
[4:25] crawling on the floor. She picks up the
[4:27] gravel that this man my father walks on,
[4:29] wipes it on her face and stands up. Some
[4:30] real stuff. And uh my mother is Japanese
[4:34] and she's Buddhist. You know, she grew
[4:35] up meditating. So I grew up with a
[4:36] father going to church on Sunday and
[4:38] mother was meditating and yet my father
[4:41] uh he went to India in the 60s had an
[4:44] enlightenment awaken awakening awakening
[4:47] experience came back kept his churches
[4:50] and his whole spiritual philosophy
[4:52] shifted from an old school orthodox uh
[4:56] hellfire brimstone religion to a much
[4:59] more uh spiritual tradition and Christ
[5:04] as a consciousness not just as a person
[5:08] and so I grew up in a very spiritual
[5:10] environment you know uh but I think
[5:12] sometimes we can get
[5:15] if we're not careful personally coming
[5:17] out of the church if we're not careful
[5:22] spirituality can become another dogma
[5:26] spirituality itself can become another
[5:28] attachment another restriction where we
[5:31] get so attached to rules and ideas and
[5:34] you or you got to walk this way. You got
[5:36] to, you know, if you're spiritual, hey
[5:38] man, Ben Ben, you got to wear the wear
[5:40] certain color, you know, don't wear
[5:41] don't wear black, don't wear only wear
[5:43] white. It becomes another another
[5:45] religion, another ism. Uh you you can't
[5:48] just give someone a hug anymore. You got
[5:50] to like hug on the left side, hug on the
[5:53] right side, because that's where
[5:54] everything aligns. And before you know
[5:56] it, now you're not living the true
[5:58] feeling and essence of what's authentic.
[6:02] you're living inside of all these
[6:04] identifications and identities that now
[6:07] it's just as limiting. It's just as
[6:09] imprisoning as old school religion. And
[6:13] and so for me, I think the the the
[6:16] purpose of spirituality
[6:19] is not to be spiritual.
[6:22] That's not the purpose of spirituality.
[6:24] For me, the purpose of it's like saying
[6:27] the purpose of going to the gym or the
[6:29] purpose of spiritual practice is not to
[6:31] be spiritual. It's like saying the
[6:33] purpose of going to the gym is so you
[6:36] can live 24 hours in the gym. That's not
[6:39] the purpose of developing muscles. You
[6:41] know, the purpose of doing yoga is to do
[6:43] your No, the purpose of going to the gym
[6:45] is to develop the the strength, you
[6:49] know, not so you can have nice muscles
[6:51] to show off the girls or or guys, you
[6:54] know, at the party. The purpose of going
[6:56] to the gym is to develop the strength,
[6:58] the density, the stamina so that in your
[7:01] daily life
[7:03] you can live more free, more flexible,
[7:07] more you know toned, more open, have
[7:11] more stamina, more endurance. That's the
[7:13] purpose of going to the gym. So I see
[7:15] the for many people the purpose of
[7:17] spirituality has become spirituality.
[7:20] Then I think we get so caught up in the
[7:23] chanting and the mantras and which I
[7:26] love by the way in the yoga and
[7:28] Himalayas and and the meditation
[7:30] retreats and then he open my pineal
[7:32] gland but like what's the point of that?
[7:35] >> What what what what does that really
[7:37] serve for me? The purpose then of true
[7:39] spirituality is
[7:42] the access to how you really live your
[7:45] life. How are we really living our life?
[7:50] I can meditate. I can do yoga. I can
[7:52] open my pineal gland. I I met the aliens
[7:54] in the fifth dimension of blah blah
[7:56] blah. But how am I living my life each
[7:59] moment, moment to moment to moment to
[8:00] moment to moment to moment to moment to
[8:01] moment to moment to moment to moment to
[8:02] moment to moment to moment to moment. To
[8:04] me, that is the real essence of
[8:06] spirituality is being able to see
[8:10] the divine, the spirit. It sounds like
[8:14] there's a listening there's a listening
[8:17] here to something different. Um because
[8:21] >> the the false spirituality or let's say
[8:24] the performative spirituality
[8:26] it does kind of rely on like well what
[8:28] is everybody else doing?
[8:30] >> Yeah.
[8:30] >> Are they dressing in white? Are they
[8:32] doing the iawasa? Are they hugging on
[8:35] the left side? all these things that
[8:37] they they
[8:40] a lot of the times I notice the people
[8:42] that are performative like this they're
[8:44] doing so for their phone so it could go
[8:47] on social media they're doing so so they
[8:50] could have
[8:51] >> right well and so they can have
[8:53] disciples and they're not it's like they
[8:57] are performing it but they're not aware
[9:00] that there's a shadow side inside them
[9:02] that is asking for a different kind of
[9:05] attention
[9:06] It's another kind of it's like it's like
[9:08] here I am by the way. I'm just
[9:10] meditating. Look how spiritual I I just
[9:12] I just happen to have my phone while I'm
[9:14] in the middle of my meditation. It's
[9:16] like how did you have your phone in the
[9:17] middle of your meditation? And so many
[9:19] times it it it's it becomes the the
[9:24] sneakiest place that the ego hides is in
[9:28] spirituality. And if we're not aware, it
[9:31] becomes another form of egoism,
[9:35] egleness, right? It becomes another
[9:38] addiction, another validation seeking.
[9:42] And identity is identity. Whether you're
[9:44] chasing a zillion dollars or whether
[9:47] you're doing the meditation retreat
[9:48] oming and going here's my photo and let
[9:51] me do this yoga pose and show my ass and
[9:53] let me do this yoga pose and just by the
[9:54] way here's my abs and let me you know
[9:56] and and so I think
[9:59] >> the ego if we're not aware the ego can
[10:02] use spirituality as another
[10:05] method of reinforcing itself and that's
[10:08] [snorts] where it becomes a performance
[10:10] rather than an authentic [snorts]
[10:13] experience. of connecting with source
[10:17] with the divine essence inside and we
[10:19] become more interested in having nice
[10:21] photos of looking spiritual. But the for
[10:24] me the question then is are you living
[10:26] spiritual and what is it to live
[10:28] spiritual? Is it that you can chant 17
[10:30] mantras and do and hold your breath in
[10:33] in an ice bath for 17 hours? So what
[10:37] >> the question for me is
[10:40] >> are you being kind, bro? Are are are you
[10:43] are you simply just being like while
[10:46] you're meditating that that that that uh
[10:49] single mother with two kids is tripping
[10:51] over her stroller and you're sitting
[10:53] there oming. It's like stop your oming
[10:56] and move into action. Stop your oming
[10:59] and move into love. So for me, real
[11:02] spirituality is a performance unless
[11:04] you're truly living it in daily life.
[11:07] And that's when I feel like
[11:10] then there's no separation between my
[11:13] spirituality over here and my life over
[11:15] here. When the two collapse, then
[11:18] everything is spiritual and nothing is
[11:20] spiritual. But the ego, the ego, this
[11:23] beautiful thing uh wants to use many
[11:27] times use spirituality as a [snorts]
[11:30] thing to feel special, to feel
[11:33] different, to feel, you know, to get
[11:36] something. And that's where the danger
[11:38] becomes and it becomes a performance
[11:40] becomes another identity. Look how
[11:42] spiritual I am and you're not. And to be
[11:44] honest, I'm going to bust myself. I have
[11:48] done that. You know, I went to India.
[11:50] Who has it? I wore the robes and I was
[11:53] like, look how unattached to my stuff I
[11:55] am and look how much I can namaste and I
[11:59] I I did it all. And I think through that
[12:01] process I had to
[12:04] uh
[12:07] unravel the layers of my own egoic
[12:12] attachment and egoic identity, you know,
[12:15] and uh and and and need of being special
[12:18] need.
[12:19] >> What was the tipping point to get you to
[12:21] realize that? Cuz for me, it's it's
[12:24] often times and I think everything that
[12:25] we're saying so far
[12:27] >> to me I've seen in action with otherwise
[12:30] well-intentioned people.
[12:32] >> Yes.
[12:33] >> Who simply they don't know what they're
[12:35] trying to mimic all the It's kind of
[12:37] like the finger pointing to the moon.
[12:39] We're all doing the same thing to try
[12:42] and get to this mystical kind of
[12:45] spirituality. Oh, like he's no, he's
[12:47] really enlightened. But what does that
[12:49] mean? How do I become that? And so we're
[12:52] all just practicing each other's moves
[12:54] in a sense. I like that you said that we
[12:56] practic it's you know it becomes that
[12:59] outside in approach
[13:01] of of oh that teacher or guru they walk
[13:05] a certain way right dal lama talks a
[13:08] certain way wait a second ekat he sits a
[13:11] certain way oh so and so you know chopra
[13:14] or you know that person they they they
[13:16] they
[13:18] you know do a handstand a certain way so
[13:20] oh if I that means if I can walk that
[13:24] way talk that way, move that way, you
[13:26] know, look that way, gesture that way,
[13:28] don't eat those foods, don't do that
[13:30] thing, then I'm spiritual too. Then I
[13:33] must be enlightened. But what we don't
[13:35] realize is many of the enlightened
[13:37] masters or truly authentically spiritual
[13:40] beings. Uh what we experience is the
[13:45] manifestation of their inner connection.
[13:48] And so to try to adopt that as a overlay
[13:53] and I think many times spirituality has
[13:55] become a fur coat or an overlay because
[13:57] we experience that being ticknak or
[14:00] someone who's just so zen and peaceful
[14:02] and then if we see them and now we want
[14:04] the shortcut to that give me the biohack
[14:06] three-step hack to get to that
[14:08] peacefulness
[14:10] >> but we don't necessarily do the internal
[14:12] work the inner mental emotional
[14:14] spiritual psych psychological inner work
[14:17] to remove certain blockages, the
[14:19] meditation, what have you to connect
[14:20] authentically. But we we now do an
[14:22] overlay of I'm going to walk that way.
[14:25] But just performing and walking that way
[14:28] doesn't make you truly that or
[14:31] spiritual. You're acting that way. And I
[14:34] and and I've been guilty of that. And I
[14:36] see many folks acting spiritual and
[14:39] performing spiritual and doing spiritual
[14:42] rather than truly resting in the
[14:45] inherent
[14:47] essence of themselves as true truly we
[14:50] are spirit you know one. And so that
[14:53] that that's a it becomes an outside in
[14:56] approach rather than an internal
[15:00] flowering, an internal connection that
[15:03] that that moves from the inside out
[15:06] because how it might how how you might
[15:09] express right from your own authentic
[15:12] expression and your own spirit through
[15:14] your mind body mechanism may look quite
[15:16] different than the way I express and how
[15:19] echo express and how you know uh uh
[15:23] Roshi so and so expresses how Daly Labra
[15:26] expresses it's all going to spirit will
[15:28] express through the mind body mechanism
[15:30] and in different ways and I think you
[15:32] could say part of authentic I think
[15:35] spirituality is the authentic part
[15:40] >> is I want to I want to drill into that
[15:42] authentic part there's a couple things
[15:44] that I want to kind of maybe like give
[15:46] examples for the audience because like
[15:48] and I'm I'm a kind of maybe even like
[15:51] you a straight to the jugular kind of
[15:53] guy.
[15:54] >> For me,
[15:55] >> if your clothes look like you're at
[15:58] Burning Man, but you're not at Burning
[16:00] Man, for one, [laughter]
[16:02] if you overt talk and and your your key
[16:05] is to try and be really eloquent and
[16:07] know everything that you could find on
[16:09] Instagram and YouTube rather than what
[16:12] you said like, you know, meditating,
[16:13] you're in samati and and somebody over
[16:15] here really needs help. You're not in
[16:18] tune with the boots on the ground. what
[16:20] can I actually use my agency to do
[16:23] better to to make the world better
[16:25] rather than go within into this abstract
[16:28] space and when I'm talking I'm talking
[16:29] about let's say geopolitics and things
[16:32] that I have very little agency over
[16:34] while there's people in my neighborhood
[16:37] that could really use some assistance
[16:39] that seems like the authenticity is
[16:42] being really in touch with real needs
[16:45] rather than being caught up in this yeah
[16:47] but did you know what was going on in
[16:48] Iran and do you know you like and and by
[16:51] the way, do you like my mala beads? And
[16:53] you know, am I going to catch you at the
[16:55] next festy? These are all cool and I I
[16:58] don't mean to like smash on people who
[17:00] do these things because sure, like I
[17:02] I'll wear something like this and
[17:04] something like that. We we all want to
[17:06] dress ourselves up beautifully. But I
[17:09] guess the question I want to kind of ask
[17:10] is, you know, the what is the best way
[17:15] to for the lay audience to identify
[17:20] in themselves
[17:22] when like, you know, what are like the
[17:24] the key triggers that, you know, we
[17:26] could see like, oh, that's that's me
[17:28] being that way right now. Because I feel
[17:31] like often times, and I kind of just did
[17:33] it there, so I'm calling myself out.
[17:35] We're very much so pointing the finger.
[17:37] And I like how you said, listen, I've
[17:38] I've done all these things before.
[17:41] >> I too as well.
[17:42] >> But I think there is this this inner
[17:44] thing that we all have that can sense
[17:47] like, ah, wait a minute. What I'm doing
[17:49] is performative and it's not real. Do
[17:52] you have any like tips or things that
[17:55] like keep you on track? They that these
[17:57] signals come and you're like, "Oo, I
[17:59] need to I need to correct course."
[18:02] You know, I think we're like even now
[18:04] with with AI, right?
[18:07] You can just punch into AI, you know,
[18:10] hey, tell me the best philosophy of Alan
[18:11] Watson, blah blah blah blah blah, and
[18:13] you know, make me sound and all of a
[18:14] sudden AI will give you a script,
[18:16] >> right?
[18:16] >> That then you can recite and make you
[18:19] sound intelligent. But if it's not
[18:23] organically embodied for you, then
[18:27] you're just reading a script. you're
[18:29] just kind of an actor reading the
[18:31] script. And so I think for me
[18:36] there was a moment when you know from 8
[18:40] to 18 I read probably 600 books and in
[18:43] 18 to 30 I read no 18 to 25 I read
[18:46] another 200 books you know on
[18:48] spirituality and when I went to India
[18:51] and I was really in my spiritual
[18:54] identity phase the clothes the malabes
[18:56] the sandals the back all of that stuff
[18:59] the uniform I was so attached to that
[19:03] uniform for a sense of needing to show
[19:08] people how spiritual I was. I needed you
[19:10] to see it. I need you to to know it. And
[19:12] and so it was stemming from my own
[19:15] attachment, my own addiction, my own
[19:17] identity, my own need, my own fears,
[19:20] right? And and I think that
[19:24] what I had to do was I had to be willing
[19:26] to drop. Okay, that's what Chopra says
[19:29] and that's what Tolly says and that's
[19:31] what Neil Donald Wolf says and I'm good
[19:33] at paring that which is great and I
[19:36] can regurgitate it and parro it and
[19:38] sound great
[19:40] but what what's true for me? What's my
[19:45] own uh what's my own lived experience?
[19:50] And that's what I have to come to.
[19:51] What's my own truth? What do I what do I
[19:54] know? What what do I feel? What do I
[19:56] know from my own, you know, I can tell
[19:59] Ben about what chocolate tastes like?
[20:02] Because I read it in 1,700 chocolate
[20:05] books, but what's my direct experience
[20:08] of actually tasting chocolate? Even if
[20:10] it's limited, because if I if I can
[20:13] speak from my own experience, even if
[20:17] it's small, then for me it's true. Then
[20:20] I'm not reading a script. I'm not
[20:23] looking at what someone else is doing.
[20:24] I'm just speaking from my own authentic
[20:26] truth. And I think that is a process I
[20:29] had to go through, you know.
[20:30] >> What was the defining moment when you
[20:32] were like, you know what, these clothes
[20:35] aren't me anymore. And like this this
[20:37] way about me isn't me anymore. Like what
[20:40] was that moment for you?
[20:42] >> You know, I realized, wow, these are
[20:44] good questions. I haven't thought about
[20:45] this in a while. You know, I I I think I
[20:47] was in LA and I was really in my early
[20:50] 20s and
[20:53] everything had to be spiritual.
[20:55] It's like I couldn't, you know, I'm kind
[20:58] of exaggerating, but not really. Like I
[21:00] couldn't really just have a normal
[21:02] conversation, bro. You know, I I could
[21:05] it just had to be we have to talk about
[21:06] this high high consciousness stuff,
[21:09] otherwise it is a waste of time, you
[21:11] know? I couldn't just let's just hang
[21:13] out and just chill together. And and
[21:15] what I started realizing was I began
[21:19] even subconsciously judging those that
[21:21] weren't spiritual. You know, talking
[21:24] about enlightenment, consciousness,
[21:26] Ramana, Maharishi, Maharishi Mashyogi,
[21:28] Nagara Maharaj, and it's a they're
[21:31] freaking watching Seinfeld, man. They're
[21:32] those those lesser and I didn't say it
[21:35] that way, but if I'm honest, those
[21:37] lesser than normal human beings at a low
[21:40] vibration, low consciousness. And so I
[21:42] started noticing that and and what I
[21:44] started noticing which I see happen also
[21:48] now but I started noticing in myself
[21:53] what it started creating was a
[21:55] separation for me and people
[21:58] a sense of separation it's like I can
[22:01] only associate with Ben because he's
[22:02] like into Ramana Maharishi and Ram Das
[22:06] but the grandma walking the park and and
[22:10] the guy in the grocery thought I felt
[22:12] this like disconnect from because
[22:14] they're not as deep, you know, and and
[22:17] everything had to be deep all the time
[22:19] and serious. And so there was a
[22:21] separation I started seeing. It's like,
[22:24] wow, I'm judging and there's a
[22:25] separation. It's like spiritual, not
[22:27] spiritual, spiritual, not spiritual.
[22:29] [snorts] This is spiritual, this is this
[22:30] is this isn't spiritual. It was like
[22:32] this this that thing that was happening.
[22:35] And I began to
[22:37] I guess feel the disconnect in that if
[22:40] I'm honest. And and and rather than
[22:45] spirituality
[22:46] bringing me me closer to people and
[22:50] loving people and that sense of you know
[22:52] the real essence of spirituality is
[22:55] recognizing that we're not just this
[22:57] body and just this form that we are a
[23:00] stream of consciousness
[23:02] that is the inherent oneness of all
[23:06] things and your body and my body and
[23:09] Putin's body and Trump's body is They're
[23:12] just kind of apparent, you know,
[23:15] manifestations in this sort of sea of
[23:20] oneness. And ultimately the same life
[23:22] force breathing me, breathing you,
[23:23] breathing Trump, breathing Biden,
[23:25] breathing Hitler, breathing Putin,
[23:26] breathing Escobar, breathing, you know,
[23:28] P. Diddy, beefing everybody is just the
[23:31] same source. And
[23:34] I was getting so caught up in being
[23:37] spiritual that it was separating me from
[23:39] the true inherent sense of the
[23:42] recognition of the oneness of life. And
[23:44] so I think if spirituality is is truly
[23:47] the recognition of the oneness that the
[23:51] true like great talk about you hear
[23:55] yoga, you know, Maharishi, they talk
[23:57] about the oneness.
[23:59] I wasn't feeling the oneness, man. You
[24:01] know, I was talking about the oneness.
[24:03] Don't get me wrong, I was talking with
[24:06] my spiritual friends about the oneness,
[24:09] but my non-spiritual friends, I was I
[24:12] was not one with them. And so when I
[24:14] started to look at that, I started to
[24:16] see my own [snorts]
[24:17] spiritual ego, my own sense of how it
[24:21] was spirituality was actually separating
[24:23] me from people. And now I had to be
[24:27] really uh
[24:30] >> ruthlessly honest with myself, which was
[24:32] hard and it was painful to see, but I
[24:34] had to kind of get my head out of my
[24:36] ass, so to speak, and and just take a
[24:38] hard look at myself and go, "Wow, if
[24:39] spirituality is actually separating me
[24:43] from that oneness, to embrace all,
[24:47] what is that true spirituality?" And
[24:50] that's what that's where I had a bit of
[24:52] a wakeup call.
[24:53] This sounds very similar to mine and
[24:56] mine happened really quick. Um,
[24:58] fortunately [snorts]
[24:59] because I was in a band and when I had
[25:01] my spiritual awakening, the way that I
[25:02] talked changed and the amount of talking
[25:05] changed and I always had some wisdom to
[25:08] impart on people and very quickly my
[25:10] band was like, I don't want to hear any
[25:12] of that. We're on tour. Shut up about
[25:14] that stuff. Give me the the old real
[25:17] Benback. And I had to pause and really
[25:20] take into account like what am I doing
[25:23] that's creating such a reaction in them.
[25:25] And for one and I hope the listeners can
[25:28] see themselves in this and I hope they
[25:30] can hear the the thing that I say after
[25:32] this which is like we all go through a
[25:36] point in time where we want to share
[25:38] something. We really share it and we
[25:40] share it a lot. What I started noticing
[25:42] was that the people who are doing the
[25:44] performative side, when they want to
[25:46] share with you something, it's super
[25:48] deep. It's something that you can read
[25:50] about elsewhere. It has less to do with
[25:53] this now moment between you and I. And
[25:56] I've actually started to appreciate and
[25:58] feel like it's actually real connection.
[26:01] >> When you stay, I don't want to say
[26:03] shallow. Let's say you and I we just
[26:04] meet and this isn't a podcast.
[26:08] My questions could seem shallow, but I'd
[26:10] be like, you know, yeah, what's up?
[26:11] What's your favorite kind of music? Uh,
[26:13] you know, so what do you do on a daily
[26:14] basis because that's like a wide swath
[26:17] of let's just get to know each other
[26:20] casually before we drop into a rabbit
[26:22] hole on any one thing. And I was
[26:24] starting to drop into rabbit holes
[26:26] instantly upon meeting people
[26:28] >> and that kind of talking. People were
[26:30] just they had this knee-jerk reaction
[26:32] where they were just like looking for a
[26:34] way out of the conversation. Yeah,
[26:36] >> I see this a lot in the spiritual
[26:38] community and it's a cycle that I hope
[26:40] people can hear what we're saying and
[26:43] see some of it in them and not be
[26:45] ashamed. That's the thing is I I don't
[26:47] want them to feel ashamed for any of
[26:49] these things, but to acknowledge that's
[26:51] not the you that you're you're trying to
[26:54] allow uh you know people to access. You
[26:57] want real openness, real connection. It
[27:00] doesn't come from the things that you
[27:01] learn, the things that you wear. It
[27:03] doesn't come from those things. Do you
[27:05] seem really curious?
[27:07] >> Do you seem really genuine? And are you
[27:10] really genuine when you're just getting
[27:12] to know somebody? And if you overtalk,
[27:15] sometimes it could seem like that's
[27:17] because you don't seem to value what
[27:18] they may have to say. And if you don't
[27:22] ask many questions as you make
[27:24] statements, then you're really just
[27:26] filling up the space with what you think
[27:28] that person needs to know and seeing
[27:30] saying bye-bye afterwards. It's it's
[27:32] it's wild. But I wanted to like lay that
[27:34] groundwork um of what I've seen to see
[27:38] if there's there's any
[27:41] Yeah. I mean like is there anything
[27:44] along those lines that you've noticed
[27:45] that has also given you a little bit of
[27:49] compassion towards the people who are
[27:52] performative and like the need for some
[27:55] compassion.
[27:56] >> Yeah. I I think again that needs from
[27:58] compassion that the compassion has come
[28:01] because of seeing it in myself,
[28:04] >> you know, and and one thing I'll speak
[28:06] to is this this sort of need to be
[28:09] spiritual and this need to be special,
[28:13] >> you know, a need to be special.
[28:16] >> Uh it's a big one.
[28:17] >> It's a big one. It's like if I'm
[28:19] spiritual and I'm and I'm special
[28:21] because I I can float out into other
[28:24] dimensions and you know I'm not having
[28:26] this regular
[28:28] human talk, right?
[28:29] >> Yeah.
[28:30] >> And so I had to drop that need to be
[28:33] special a little bit, you know, and and
[28:35] it's it's it's growing up in a certain
[28:38] culture and with a father and
[28:41] I kind of had to unravel that within
[28:44] myself. And so when I see
[28:49] many times it's it's it's when people
[28:50] start the spiritual path that they they
[28:53] can easily get sort of hooked into oh
[28:56] this is what spiritual folks do and I I
[28:58] was an achiever in my Wall Street job
[29:00] and my you know sales job and I'll take
[29:03] that same egoic drive into spirituality
[29:06] and let me just compress time and wear
[29:09] the the the Illuminati clothes and wear
[29:10] the thing and do the thing and talk that
[29:13] rabbit hole talk and and and show how
[29:17] spiritual I am and how special I am. And
[29:21] so when I see that for me, I don't judge
[29:24] it because I'm I am it. I was it. I you
[29:27] know, I see it. And and and and I think
[29:29] recognizing
[29:31] often it's that ego need to feel
[29:36] acknowledged and special. And I think
[29:41] on the true authentic spiritual path
[29:45] that sense of specialness which also
[29:49] creates a subtle separation from me and
[29:54] you has to go. You know that's why I was
[29:57] telling someone the other day. Uh this
[30:00] might sound strange but
[30:03] I'm kind of getting bored of
[30:04] spirituality. [laughter]
[30:06] you know, you know what I'm saying? It's
[30:08] like I
[30:09] >> love spiritual. This is my life. But
[30:11] it's like I'm kind of getting bored of
[30:13] it. And and now it's so weird being
[30:16] married and having a son who's 3 years
[30:20] old and he doesn't give a about
[30:22] anything, man. He's just being himself.
[30:25] And uh it's been very humbling, you
[30:30] know, because it's it's it's it's
[30:34] it is the most human path
[30:38] of ordinariness,
[30:40] you know, changing diapers. that
[30:42] like that that's not spiritual, man. I
[30:44] mean, give me some highutin meditation
[30:46] just changing diapers. It's not
[30:48] >> I'm in it.
[30:49] >> It's I'm in it, too, man. and
[30:50] [clears throat] I'm changing diapers and
[30:52] I'm like not getting any gratitude and
[30:54] he's slapping my face and it's like I
[30:57] want to meditate and and even feeling
[30:58] those um subtler layers in me going
[31:03] and and then recognizing can I can I see
[31:08] the divine inside of this this this
[31:10] little baby my son right now.
[31:12] >> Yeah.
[31:12] >> And live my spirituality in that moment.
[31:15] And and so
[31:17] uh
[31:20] Babies know how to be present.
[31:22] >> Yeah.
[31:22] >> I have I have a one-year-old and and I
[31:24] have three older kids.
[31:26] >> The one thing I mean like he gets
[31:29] [snorts]
[31:30] when I'm anxious and he'll come up and
[31:32] kind of you know and for me that that
[31:34] starts making me more anxious when I'm
[31:36] trying to cook for him and I got things
[31:37] in my head and you know he's coming into
[31:40] the kitchen and grabbing my you know
[31:42] grabbing my pants and everything and
[31:44] trying to get me to go away. Like I
[31:46] noticed that like he he inevitably needs
[31:50] to know that like when you're a dad of
[31:52] the house or mom of the house, there's
[31:53] things that need to be done. So there is
[31:55] that like realization like I can't I
[31:58] can't be on my hands and knees with you
[32:00] every second of every day.
[32:01] >> Yeah.
[32:02] >> But I am present with you and he knows
[32:04] when I'm not present. That's the
[32:06] interesting thing about it. Um
[32:08] >> Yeah. And and for me it's been such a
[32:11] like like being a parent has been uh
[32:14] like part of the spiritual path is you
[32:18] could say unegoing yourself, [laughter]
[32:22] you know, and and and and a process of
[32:25] purification.
[32:27] And being a parent has been a real ego
[32:33] purification process.
[32:35] A and so even though it's not a
[32:38] spiritual path I think what I want
[32:41] people to understand is the sense of we
[32:44] have to let go of this is spiritual and
[32:47] this is not spiritual then
[32:50] the integration can happen when all of
[32:53] life
[32:56] becomes spiritual infused with like
[32:59] there's not nothing is spiritual
[33:02] and everything is spiritual and I think
[33:05] So often we've been uh focused on waking
[33:09] up, you know.
[33:10] >> Uh
[33:14] >> but maybe real spirituality is also
[33:16] waking down. Not just waking up,
[33:19] >> but down and and it's not always sexy
[33:23] and high vibes is just changing the
[33:25] diapers and living with kindness and
[33:28] being upset at my wife. But but okay let
[33:31] me let me let me extend some grace in
[33:33] that moment you know like living
[33:36] spirituality waking it down into life
[33:40] into the body so that any sense of
[33:42] separation between this is spiritual and
[33:44] that's not spiritual yoga mat Himalayas
[33:46] Tibet but like 2:00 a.m. in the morning.
[33:49] It's like it's all spiritual.
[33:51] Everything. There's not a moment that
[33:54] isn't spiritual. And you don't need a
[33:57] uniform or a you know mala bead or
[34:00] anything. It's just any moment that you
[34:03] that you're present in any moment you
[34:06] dare to open your heart in any moment
[34:08] you're recognizing or doing your best to
[34:10] just be here right now uh and live,
[34:14] >> you know, and live.
[34:15] >> Yeah. How do we so how do we use
[34:18] spiritual concepts to or what's the
[34:21] typical ways that you see that we're
[34:22] using spiritual concepts to distance
[34:24] ourselves from pain that's normal or
[34:28] responsibility or just ordinary
[34:30] humanness? I'm curious like do you have
[34:33] some examples of spiritual concepts that
[34:37] keep us from facing the very real stuff
[34:40] and the mundane stuff?
[34:41] >> Wow.
[34:42] >> Cuz you're just saying spirituality
[34:43] doesn't just live over here. It lives in
[34:45] the mundane moments even while you're
[34:47] wiping an ass and all those things.
[34:49] >> I've learned, you know, from my wife
[34:52] who,
[34:53] >> you know, isn't the sort of malabid, you
[34:55] know, floating in the she just like she
[34:58] lives. I'm sort of the spiritual teacher
[35:02] guy, right? And my wife has been the
[35:06] greatest teacher of my life because, you
[35:08] know, Ben,
[35:10] she doesn't she she doesn't she doesn't
[35:13] need to teach it.
[35:15] I need to teach it to to to to learn it.
[35:19] But but she's actually just lives it,
[35:22] you know, and and it's been it's so
[35:23] profound
[35:25] uh being on the receiving end of that
[35:27] and seeing that and learning from her.
[35:30] Uh and and so I grew up with a father to
[35:34] answer your question who was a god man,
[35:38] you know, uh I call him an African sid
[35:42] kind of Sai Baba meets TD Jake, you
[35:44] know, and and he would look at a person
[35:47] you cut I'd see people coming in in in
[35:50] uh wheelchairs,
[35:53] they hadn't walked in 10 years, look at
[35:55] them and say,
[35:57] "Why are you in this wheelchair?"
[35:59] No hesitation. Why are you in this
[36:01] world? But I haven't walked in in 10
[36:03] years, you know. Uh, stand up. Well, I
[36:06] have. Come on. I haven't. Do you
[36:08] believe? Yes or no? Yeah, I do believe.
[36:10] So, if you believe, then why the hell
[36:12] are you sitting down? Stand up. And so I
[36:14] grew up with this father who
[36:17] so, shall we say, transcended the human
[36:21] >> into that sort of transcendental realm
[36:27] that he could look at someone and hold
[36:29] the
[36:31] ultimate truth of of the perfection of
[36:36] and reflect that back to someone. And if
[36:39] they could see that and and and receive
[36:42] that a miracle happened and and and and
[36:45] they they chose to align with that and
[36:47] they stood up. So I go with the father
[36:49] who was so uh transcendental in a
[36:53] certain way which has a
[36:57] I mean it has its blessings. But I think
[37:00] the danger that I saw and I had to
[37:02] unravel also within myself and I see us
[37:05] in the spiritual community sometimes get
[37:08] caught in those loopholes is we then can
[37:10] end up as you said using spirituality
[37:15] to bypass
[37:17] real human feelings and emotion. It's
[37:21] all God. It's all good. It's all great.
[37:23] It's all perfect. Everything is always
[37:24] working out for your highest good. you
[37:26] know, a a and and so we can use these
[37:28] concepts to to not feel like you're
[37:31] heartbroken, you get a divorce,
[37:33] everything is always working out for
[37:34] your highest good, which ultimately is
[37:37] true. I mean, we we I sense, you know,
[37:40] it's there's a truth to it, but
[37:44] when used as a way to not acknowledge
[37:48] your human level feelings,
[37:51] >> Exactly. the pain, the humanity, the
[37:54] grief because we also live in this
[37:56] physical body that is a vessel that is
[38:00] kind of housing the vehicle for our
[38:02] spirit to navigate this 3D experience
[38:05] called life with uh when when we use
[38:09] those concepts as a
[38:12] bypass then it becomes an override that
[38:15] disconnects us from the human level
[38:17] feelings and what I've seen for many
[38:19] many many many spiritual folks
[38:22] my father included, many great sages and
[38:24] saints included, that we can open up to
[38:28] these higher realms of existence and
[38:31] consciousness and connect to the divine.
[38:34] But because we have not honored and
[38:38] embraced and loved and nurtured and
[38:40] integrated that into our physical human
[38:44] body, right? And we have not also not
[38:47] allowed ourselves to feel those
[38:48] feelings. So we're still carrying the
[38:50] pain, still carrying the trauma, still
[38:52] carrying the hurt. We're not integrated
[38:54] in many ways. And so you see many
[38:56] spiritual folks who are deeply
[38:58] spiritual, meditating 5 hours a day, 3
[39:01] hours a day, they've transcended, but
[39:04] they've not descended into the body and
[39:06] allowed themselves to feel the feelings
[39:08] to to to release the feelings in a
[39:11] healthy and authentic way. And
[39:13] [clears throat] so then we're carrying
[39:15] so much pain. So that even though we
[39:17] connect to the blue light, we're not
[39:18] able to hold that frequency in our
[39:22] everyday reality because when we come
[39:24] back into the body of the human vessel
[39:27] vehicle, it's full of pain, hurt,
[39:30] trauma, resentment, you know, grief,
[39:31] sadness, heartbreak that we haven't
[39:33] allowed ourselves to process. So then
[39:36] yes I think spirituality as magical and
[39:39] beautiful as it is can become a
[39:42] limitation and a disconnect from the
[39:45] full shall we say the full human
[39:47] experience the full human flourishing
[39:51] and I think human flourishing
[39:54] is is is the embrace of
[39:57] all of the human you know I think that's
[40:00] >> not just the pleasant parts
[40:02] >> not just the pleasant to bring you know
[40:04] to bring heaven on earth,
[40:06] >> you know, heaven on earth into the body,
[40:08] into the heart, into the shadow, into
[40:11] the And I think what we see in many even
[40:15] great spiritual beings, I mean, I could
[40:17] mention them, maybe, maybe not, it's up
[40:19] to you, but but many have fallen, you
[40:21] know, from the John of Gods of the world
[40:24] to, you know, on and on and on. Uh, I
[40:28] even found out many things since my
[40:30] father's passing about stuff that went
[40:33] down that's like
[40:35] >> dark stuff that went down that I had to
[40:38] reckon with.
[40:39] >> And I can see that many of these great
[40:41] beings opened,
[40:43] >> but they cut off from the neck down.
[40:47] Yeah.
[40:48] >> And they were living split. They were
[40:51] living transcendental but not integrated
[40:54] is the word. And I think as as as a
[40:57] spiritual community,
[41:00] as we move into the world that we're
[41:01] moving into, we we we we need to
[41:05] integrate
[41:07] into the body, into the feelings, into
[41:09] the emotion. not get lost there because
[41:11] the other flip side is you can get lost
[41:14] in the wallowing of your pain and your
[41:15] sadness and then you're caught density
[41:18] of the human emotion and you forget the
[41:20] transcendental deep reality that is
[41:25] >> life you know
[41:26] >> I think I think what I'm hearing is
[41:28] there's there's a balance and when we go
[41:31] into one extreme or the other whether
[41:33] it's too deep into the physical
[41:36] um the here's how I feel experience or
[41:39] too far away from it thinking that like
[41:42] everything is impersonal. I'm just going
[41:43] to cuz here's actually what I what I
[41:46] want to mention as one of the you know
[41:48] the final things that we mentioned the
[41:49] first few things like the malabads the
[41:52] way you uh dress the way you talk that's
[41:54] one thing but there are a lot of people
[41:56] who genuinely set out on a spiritual
[42:00] path and then it's not just the
[42:03] messianic complex but it's like I'm on
[42:06] this path and and it chose me and it's
[42:08] the yes I'm special but it's the also I
[42:12] need to tell everybody exactly what I
[42:14] think because God is moving me to say
[42:16] this. And I've I've had so many people
[42:19] because I travel, you know, I do
[42:21] speaking gigs for the past 20 years
[42:23] after making some documentaries. And I
[42:25] started noticing in this very space,
[42:29] everyone has been chosen and they are
[42:31] the whether they're like the
[42:33] reincarnation of uh something or in a
[42:35] past life they were Alexander the Great.
[42:38] And and to me, I'm always like thinking
[42:40] inside like you're amazing as you are
[42:44] >> without having to compare yourself to
[42:46] patriarchs of the past that have great
[42:49] uh prestige connected to them.
[42:51] >> So, there's kind of like this messianic
[42:53] complex. And I've seen very
[42:55] well-intentioned beautiful people
[42:57] >> turn into what you would call
[42:59] megalomaniacs, sociopaths in a way. they
[43:02] are that disconnected from others and
[43:05] everything that like I could see it and
[43:07] say like no that's just ego parading as
[43:10] spirituality but everybody else they're
[43:13] coming up to oh did you hear that they
[43:14] they just cut straight through the
[43:16] and I'm like yeah but that
[43:18] person didn't leave a better person
[43:20] having heard that they're broken and now
[43:23] they have no path there's nothing you
[43:25] know like hopefully somebody who sees
[43:27] what I'm seeing goes up to them and
[43:29] saying hey can I be with you through
[43:31] this hard process cuz that's that's all
[43:34] my kid wants when he scrapes his knee.
[43:36] It's there's no amount of talking or
[43:38] whatever. No, it's just
[43:40] >> hold me and shut up.
[43:41] >> And I'm I'm sorry to put it so bluntly,
[43:43] but
[43:43] >> that's real.
[43:44] >> I think that's the balance of
[43:46] spirituality that we're looking for is
[43:48] like, you know, when we go on this path,
[43:51] >> you mentioned like awa uh awakening
[43:54] down, not just waking up, but waking
[43:56] down. To me, that reminds me of a Carl
[43:58] Young quote. And that Carl Young quote
[44:00] is
[44:00] >> the branches of a tree can't reach to
[44:02] heaven unless its roots have reached to
[44:04] hell.
[44:05] >> And all that really says to me, take the
[44:08] biblical side out of it is there is
[44:10] balance. If you if you want to have
[44:12] some, you know, crazy spiritual idea and
[44:15] change the world, if you don't know how
[44:17] to talk to normies and if you don't know
[44:19] how to talk to them without triggering
[44:21] them, thus cutting off all real
[44:23] communication,
[44:25] >> that's not spiritual. That is not a
[44:27] spiritual win, right?
[44:30] >> And it creates more division and it
[44:31] creates Exactly.
[44:32] >> It creates more and and our world gets
[44:34] more and more divided. The spiritual and
[44:36] the nonspiritual versus embracing and
[44:38] the integration and that the oneness.
[44:41] You know, we we live in a world,
[44:44] how do I say this, of infinitely valid
[44:47] but simultaneously contradictory
[44:49] realities
[44:53] >> inherent in the nature of life. is and
[44:55] and and there's a tendency of like is it
[44:58] this or is it that you know it's either
[45:02] this or it's that but it's but but
[45:05] it's both is it up or is it down I is
[45:09] it's is it's both you know one thing I I
[45:12] kind of
[45:14] loved about being in India you know
[45:15] everything in the west is very linear
[45:18] it's like is it this or is it that is it
[45:20] this or is that it's spiritual or it's
[45:21] not yes or No is yet in India and you
[45:26] probably been to India you know
[45:27] everyone's like
[45:29] is this and is that you know is this and
[45:31] is that and so we live in this world is
[45:34] it's infinitely valid simultaneously
[45:36] contradictory realities is inherent in
[45:37] nature and I think part of the
[45:40] part of the spiritual path and part of
[45:42] maybe the freedom I is the ability to
[45:47] not just get stuck in this or that
[45:51] >> but Uh but
[45:54] live in the recognition that yes, we are
[45:56] all one. We are all divine beings. None
[45:57] none of this matters. None of it matters
[45:59] at all because
[46:01] >> nothing lasts. It's all impermanent. So
[46:03] don't attach to anything. And yet
[46:06] all of it matters. You know, my son
[46:09] here, my boy, I'll be with you forever.
[46:12] You know, my wife, I love you forever.
[46:14] And and it matters tremendously. You
[46:17] know, this moment is is everything. And
[46:19] so I think part of the
[46:22] part of what I've been learning and
[46:24] living more and more is none of it
[46:27] matters and it all matters and and it's
[46:30] not either or is infinitely valid and
[46:32] simultaneously contradictory and the
[46:35] ability to
[46:37] embrace it. Brace the both you [snorts]
[46:40] know and hold the both and live in the
[46:43] >> this is all a movie man. It's all a
[46:45] movie and it doesn't mean I'm going to
[46:47] sit here and not laugh. let can I enjoy
[46:49] the movie while also having the
[46:51] viewpoint that it's a movie and I think
[46:54] that's that's a part of the freedom and
[46:56] and and I'm reminded of when I was in
[46:58] India
[47:00] I had a I had a mentor when I was 21
[47:04] years old called Dwakoji
[47:06] >> he was a karma yogi so he was a former
[47:09] disciple of Gandhi served the
[47:11] underprivileged kids for like 50 years
[47:13] when I met him he was already 80 when I
[47:14] met him lived until 100ish thereabouts I
[47:18] got to spend and you know two three
[47:20] times a year hang out with him in India.
[47:22] Sometimes he came to the US a real man
[47:24] like a living Mother Teresa kind of man
[47:26] karma yogi a Gandian in his way of his
[47:30] philosophy he he he didn't have the most
[47:33] esoteric advitic concepts but he was
[47:37] just living love every day moment to
[47:40] moment unflinching and so when I was
[47:44] about 21 I decided to it' be a nice idea
[47:48] to go and be spiritual in India and and
[47:50] serve at his orphanage And I went to his
[47:52] orphanage and I thought it was going to
[47:55] be fun. I had these ideas of how it was
[47:58] going to be. His orphanage is opposite
[47:59] the Mahabhi temple where the bodhic tree
[48:01] is and the Buddha got enlightened in
[48:03] Bodgaya. It's a very sacred place. And
[48:06] after two weeks of trying to serve these
[48:08] kids and be there for these kids, I was
[48:12] exhausted, man. I mean, I was I was
[48:14] pissed off, mad, exhausted, uh tired.
[48:18] And I said to Dwaku G,
[48:21] let me let me let me I'm going to come
[48:23] back in [clears throat] about two weeks.
[48:24] I'm going to go I'm going to meditate at
[48:25] Mahabodi temple where Bodhi the the
[48:27] Buddha statue is the the Bodhi tree is.
[48:29] I'll be back in two weeks. And this this
[48:31] is another moment where my life changed
[48:33] where this 80-year-old man like a
[48:36] grandfather to me looked me in the eyes
[48:38] and he said, "It's it's it's okay that
[48:40] you go meditate by the by by the Buddha
[48:43] statue.
[48:46] do it. But just make sure that while
[48:48] you're meditating,
[48:50] your heart doesn't turn to stone.
[48:54] Because right here in this ashram,
[48:58] you look around, go, "See that child?"
[49:00] Goes, "I found her on my doorstep
[49:02] wrapped in newspapers. You see that
[49:04] child? We found her living in the trash
[49:08] eating rats." And he gave me the story
[49:10] on each kid. And I just was like, "Whoa,
[49:12] >> wow." and they weren't socialized, you
[49:14] know, so they didn't know how to
[49:15] interact and thank you and they and and
[49:18] he said, "If you look around," he gave
[49:19] me the story on all of these kids.
[49:22] And he said, "It's okay to go meditate
[49:26] the by the Buddha statue. Make sure your
[49:28] heart doesn't turn to stone because in
[49:30] front of you right here are living
[49:32] Buddhists, living Christ waiting for you
[49:36] to worship them, waiting for you." And
[49:38] it's like that was a moment for me where
[49:41] spirituality kind of
[49:43] >> descended you know and and and the the
[49:46] the beginning of that process started
[49:48] happening where it kind of went down and
[49:51] up and sideways and and an integration
[49:54] happened where something began to shift
[49:58] for me. It's like wow
[49:59] >> I can feel that that story struck me and
[50:03] >> yeah I have I have similar feelings
[50:06] about that. um the real living flesh.
[50:09] That's where the spiritual path really
[50:11] lies. Up by a Buddha statue. That's
[50:13] nice. Um dude, we've gone through the
[50:16] entire hour and I realize I barely asked
[50:20] any personal questions. Do you mind
[50:21] wrapping this up with uh some rapid fire
[50:24] questions?
[50:24] >> Let's do it, man.
[50:25] >> All right. Tell me one thing that a lot
[50:27] of people don't know about you.
[50:29] >> Wow.
[50:32] Uh I'm funny.
[50:35] [laughter]
[50:35] Well, I think we can tell. Check out
[50:37] your Instagram page.
[50:38] >> People think I'm like serious and I am
[50:40] quite ser but but like I think I'm quite
[50:42] funny. My my wife will tell you that I'm
[50:44] funny.
[50:45] >> I love it. Uh number two, do you have a
[50:47] practice? Uh you already covered
[50:49] meditation, but something outside of
[50:51] meditation. A practice fishing, skiing,
[50:54] >> non-negotiable.
[50:56] I exercise seven days a week. It used to
[50:58] be running. I've been running since I
[51:01] was 10, 11 years old. M
[51:04] >> and uh every day I I got I went from
[51:07] being fat as an 11-year-old kid running
[51:09] once around the block, twice around the
[51:10] block, three times to six miles a day.
[51:12] And I did six miles a day till I was,
[51:14] you know, 20 almost 20 years straight
[51:17] without missing a day, literally.
[51:19] >> And then I started switching it up to
[51:21] some weights and different, you know,
[51:23] different uh modalities. But I exercise
[51:26] every day and it it's it's in a strange
[51:28] way uh a real spiritual process for me.
[51:31] I feel I feel the same about that. And
[51:34] last rapid fire question. What kind of
[51:36] work would you be doing if you're not
[51:38] doing this?
[51:39] >> Wow. Uh
[51:42] I don't know. I'm going to say a couple
[51:43] of things. Uh
[51:46] I might be a
[51:51] financial investor
[51:54] guy because I kind of I grew up without
[51:57] any financial knowledge as a kid. We
[51:59] were just in the church
[52:00] >> and then I didn't invest anything. Now
[52:02] I've started and the process of like
[52:06] understanding a stock and using my
[52:08] intuition is kind of a spiritual process
[52:11] of like
[52:13] recognizing the market goes up and down.
[52:15] It's always changing. Don't get attached
[52:17] to the ups and downs. Be neutral with
[52:19] it, you know. And so I found investing
[52:21] to be quite
[52:23] >> quite spiritual in a certain way. Uh
[52:26] yeah,
[52:26] >> as a as a as a practice of
[52:28] non-attachment and and observation and
[52:31] awareness. So that that might be a fun
[52:34] thing that I I think I have the
[52:35] potential to be good at it.
[52:37] >> Dude, that's amazing. I I am literally
[52:40] in the same season of my life right now
[52:43] realizing the impersonal nature of the
[52:45] market, the psychological nature of the
[52:46] market, what conviction is when you
[52:50] like, you know, conviction is when you
[52:53] buy the dip and it keeps dipping. Do you
[52:55] double down?
[52:56] >> Bitcoin, whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah.
[52:58] Yeah.
[52:59] >> Yeah. Dude, this is cool, man. I would,
[53:00] you know, we're gonna have to get you
[53:02] back. There's there's so much I don't
[53:04] think that we tapped into, but I just
[53:05] want to say this is a topic that is very
[53:08] near and dear to my heart because
[53:12] you need for, you know, let's say in the
[53:14] spiritual community, there's just going
[53:16] to be a face, but that that face often
[53:19] is hiding something. And under
[53:22] underneath that, if you can dig down
[53:24] into it, there is beauty to uncovering
[53:27] it. Often times, people don't want to
[53:29] touch the shadow stuff thinking that
[53:31] that's I don't want to muck my hands up
[53:33] with with stuff like that. I'm like,
[53:34] that's where the path really starts and
[53:37] ends. Um, so I appreciate deeply the
[53:41] wisdom that you shared with us. Uh, last
[53:43] thing I want to ask is how can people
[53:45] find you?
[53:46] >> Yeah, a couple of ways. Uh, Instagram,
[53:47] Coupe Blackon, my book, You Are the One:
[53:50] The Magic of Surrender. my main website,
[53:51] Kublaxon. Uh, twice a year, depending on
[53:54] when people listen, I do a retreat to
[53:55] Bali. www.boundlessblissbali.com.
[53:59] Next one is in December.
[54:02] Okay, I might have to consider that one.
[54:05] Bali in December sounds a little better
[54:07] than Nashville in December. So,
[54:10] >> um, man, this has been amazing. I just
[54:13] want to thank you for your time and um
[54:15] yeah uh basically
[54:18] these podcasts are really there to allow
[54:21] for this conversation to flourish and I
[54:23] think that what you have been bringing
[54:25] to the table today is is something very
[54:27] necessary for all audiences especially
[54:29] in the new age or spirituality community
[54:32] to listen to. So thank you.
[54:33] >> Well, thank you for having me.
[54:35] >> As spiritual author Jeff Foster once
[54:37] said, "Maybe the deepest spirituality
[54:38] isn't becoming someone new. is finally
[54:41] having the courage to be fully human. So
[54:43] for all of you at home listening, stay
[54:46] authentic to who you are. I'll see you
[54:47] all next time on the Pulse.