Transcript
[0:02] Welcome, welcome.
[0:05] I get to visit with one of my dearest
[0:08] friends, Sierra Campbell, teacher
[0:10] friend,
[0:12] originating author, founder of Nurture.
[0:16] Sierra's with me because
[0:19] about 20 years ago, she and I met at a
[0:21] Yoga Journal conference. She was
[0:23] filming.
[0:25] And she and I did an interview together.
[0:28] And her wisdom
[0:30] and her story moved me. She had endured
[0:35] >> [clears throat]
[0:35] >> ovarian cancer in her 30s.
[0:38] She had been at the bedside of the dying
[0:41] since she was five with her grandma.
[0:45] She has
[0:47] founded multiple companies, but this
[0:50] organization of which we will speak
[0:52] today is called Nurture.
[0:54] And Nurture is a way for all of us to
[0:57] continue to learn about how to be with
[1:01] the elderly and the dying and treat
[1:03] folks with a great deal of dignity and
[1:05] care. And then
[1:08] by some grace, receive the very dignity
[1:11] and care that we share.
[1:13] So, Sierra, it's a real pleasure to be
[1:14] here with you today. We have lots to
[1:16] discuss.
[1:18] Thank you for being here.
[1:20] >> Thank you, dear friend. I want to add
[1:23] that
[1:24] Nurture supports people to be with those
[1:27] who were are dying or terminally ill.
[1:30] Um but it really it's a supportive
[1:33] community for ourselves. How to be with
[1:35] ourselves through all of the transitions
[1:39] and loss that we endure in life.
[1:43] >> Mhm.
[1:44] Today's quote from the Zen calendar,
[1:47] sometimes it really works out, Chögyam
[1:49] Trungpa,
[1:50] mentioning how often we, he said it's
[1:53] the $64,000 question. If you remember
[1:56] that show, you're of a certain age.
[2:00] How often do we actually connect with
[2:03] ourselves
[2:04] instead of
[2:06] turning on a program or
[2:09] distracting ourselves with some
[2:11] other distraction?
[2:14] And what I found in my friendship with
[2:16] you, Sierra, and in all of the work that
[2:19] I have participated in with you in
[2:21] Nurture
[2:22] is that connection to myself. And it has
[2:24] given me a level of confidence and
[2:26] freedom that I couldn't have dreamt
[2:27] about. In my 50s, I now feel like I'm a
[2:30] kid.
[2:32] I feel very young here
[2:34] and very capable of serving my elders.
[2:39] >> That's beautiful. Yes, we've been now
[2:42] together in providing a 12-week course
[2:46] for This is the third year
[2:48] >> [gasps]
[2:48] >> uh in end-of-life accompaniment.
[2:51] And what I have gained in our friendship
[2:55] is this incredible
[2:57] uh thought partner, support partner, uh
[3:01] fellow human that's coming alongside
[3:03] people as you've now gone through
[3:04] chaplaincy
[3:06] uh to discuss
[3:09] our work, our lives, but really when you
[3:12] come alongside people, even if it's your
[3:14] family or if you're doing this
[3:16] professionally or volunteering in
[3:18] hospice,
[3:20] I've just found such refuge in our
[3:22] friendship to be able to call you and
[3:24] just say, "Wow,
[3:25] I just left I'm leaving someone's home.
[3:28] The family was arguing. The person is in
[3:31] their bed. Uh really wanting a certain
[3:35] type of end-of-life experience and
[3:36] having a really hard time with their
[3:38] family members and just having
[3:41] not just a friend, but a friend who's
[3:42] also coming alongside people in
[3:45] >> [clears throat]
[3:45] >> their grief and the transitions in
[3:47] end-of-life has really changed my work.
[3:50] It's supported me in a way I didn't know
[3:53] I needed.
[3:54] >> Beautiful.
[3:54] >> So, thank you.
[3:56] >> You're so welcome. I invited you here
[3:59] today because I want to make sure that
[4:01] as many of my community as possible
[4:04] knows about
[4:06] >> [clears throat]
[4:06] >> um your work about nurture.
[4:08] I know that you're starting a course in
[4:09] February of next year, so it's a far
[4:11] ways off, but I just know this world and
[4:15] I know how important it is for folks to
[4:17] feel increasingly more comfortable in
[4:19] this realm of caring for our elders and
[4:23] being there for the dying.
[4:25] This is something that a lot of us who
[4:28] have now uh empty nest can do.
[4:32] Um some of us I've spoken with lots of
[4:34] women lately and uh
[4:36] you know, kids have left and now there's
[4:38] all this time and what do we do with our
[4:40] time? I've managed to take the
[4:42] chaplaincy program at Upaya, which was
[4:44] very very fulfilling.
[4:47] Not without its challenges and now I get
[4:50] to volunteer in hospice.
[4:52] I anytime I'm home, I'm in someone
[4:54] else's home, you know, at least a couple
[4:56] times a month.
[4:57] And
[4:58] what I wanted to talk with you about
[5:00] today, Sierra, is the difference between
[5:04] a death doula,
[5:06] a hospice volunteer.
[5:08] >> Mhm.
[5:09] >> I'd like to talk about that, number one.
[5:11] I would also really love to discuss what
[5:13] it is that you offer in your courses,
[5:16] particularly the one that's coming up in
[5:17] February, so that the folks listening,
[5:20] if you're listening to this and you're
[5:22] interested, so that you have a chance to
[5:25] learn precisely what is on offer with
[5:29] Sierra's work. It is so fine and so
[5:31] important for us right now. So, let's
[5:34] get into the first question, the
[5:36] difference between a death doula
[5:38] and a hospice volunteer.
[5:41] >> I love this because for 30 years I've
[5:43] been at the bedside um
[5:45] since uh really professionally since I
[5:48] was 16 working in a nursing home.
[5:51] And at 21, I was working in assisted
[5:54] living homes providing 24/7 care with a
[5:58] team of caregivers for the final two
[6:00] eight years of people's lives.
[6:03] So, we were coming in really developing
[6:06] relationships with the elder in their
[6:07] family.
[6:09] And I my magic was creating the care
[6:11] team and really just giving my whole
[6:15] life, my whole heart to those assisted
[6:18] living homes and being very present in
[6:20] their processes.
[6:22] And I would say 20, 30 years ago a death
[6:24] doula was the same thing as a hospice
[6:26] volunteer. Because death doulas provide
[6:29] non-medical support, emotional, even
[6:33] spiritual care.
[6:35] What's happened in the last 10 to 15
[6:38] years,
[6:39] it's quite beautiful. People come into
[6:41] our training and they start realizing,
[6:44] oh wow, I'm a social worker, I'm a
[6:46] massage therapist, I'm a yoga teacher,
[6:48] I'm all these I'm an artist. I can start
[6:51] blending
[6:53] who I am, who I've been with this
[6:55] knowledge and wisdom on end-of-life and
[6:58] really create something really unique.
[7:00] People go through the training and start
[7:02] to do all the things of hospice
[7:04] volunteering. That's number one. If
[7:07] someone comes into the training and
[7:08] they've never had any experience at the
[7:11] bedside,
[7:13] and I'm not just talking about with
[7:14] their family,
[7:15] but with basically a stranger.
[7:19] That's number one. I suggest they get
[7:21] into a hospice program and start
[7:22] volunteering in their community and then
[7:25] they have a very supportive group for 12
[7:27] weeks as they embark on that journey.
[7:31] >> If you're here and you are interested in
[7:34] learning more about being a hospice
[7:36] volunteer, do me a favor and jump into
[7:39] the chat and let us know
[7:41] so that we can address your questions.
[7:43] Please don't hesitate to ask questions.
[7:44] We'll be here for a nice amount of time
[7:47] today. I want to make sure that all of
[7:48] your questions get answered.
[7:51] So, next
[7:53] So, yes, people solution.
[7:55] >> I love how the creativity starts to
[7:58] really just start flooding in for the
[8:01] participants in the course in about week
[8:04] three to four. Because we start by
[8:07] understanding our own grief.
[8:09] And what is grief? Because we're going
[8:11] to spend 12 weeks together. We're going
[8:13] to read the book Being with Dying by
[8:15] Roshi Joan Halifax.
[8:17] And inevitably these things come up and
[8:20] I want and need people to understand
[8:22] what that means to them. And how what to
[8:25] look for
[8:26] as it comes up in the next 12 weeks.
[8:28] Um and then the magic really starts to
[8:31] take shape as we look at what our death
[8:34] doula is doing in the world. Some of
[8:36] them find their magic in legacy work. In
[8:39] helping families elders create an
[8:42] understanding of what does it mean this
[8:45] final chapter of life? Um how do that
[8:49] can look like a video project. There
[8:51] were four people last year who are now
[8:54] writing books
[8:55] with end of life patients. These books
[8:57] are going to be given to the family. Um
[9:00] some are surprises. Some are things that
[9:02] are going to be published. And
[9:05] there's just this infinite
[9:07] creativity that comes through. Some
[9:10] people are focusing on
[9:12] that very very late stage
[9:15] sitting vigil, helping families manage,
[9:18] understand, and educate the family on
[9:21] the process.
[9:22] Uh once someone has a terminal diagnosis
[9:25] or they're in those final 6 months to a
[9:28] year and they're working alongside
[9:30] hospice.
[9:31] Some people are I was amazed how a few
[9:34] women decided to do celebrations of life
[9:38] but while people are still alive.
[9:40] >> Yeah.
[9:41] >> Like birthday parties or
[9:43] >> now. I'm writing a eulogy for my dad
[9:45] before he He's nowhere near death. He's
[9:47] just turned 80 and he's as virile as
[9:49] ever and I'm writing his eulogy now so
[9:51] that I can read it to him at some point
[9:53] in the next few months.
[9:54] >> Beautiful.
[9:55] >> Yeah.
[9:56] >> Yeah.
[9:58] Um there was someone else last year who
[10:01] her business now is in basically their
[10:04] birthday parties but they don't doesn't
[10:06] have to be your birthday and you these
[10:08] are she's marketing mostly in senior
[10:11] living facilities for women in their 80s
[10:13] and 90s and they're doing these
[10:15] beautiful
[10:16] >> Mhm.
[10:17] >> like everyone's sharing the eulogy
[10:19] while they're alive. And so, this woman
[10:21] is going in and asking her friends about
[10:23] what do you what would you like to
[10:25] share? And it's this incredibly unique
[10:28] offering.
[10:30] So, there's
[10:31] other women and and men, but um we do
[10:34] tend to have more women um death doulas
[10:36] right now, but that's shifting.
[10:38] Um
[10:40] helping elders move out, downsize
[10:43] and
[10:45] it's such a sacred process to go through
[10:47] your things and decide who gets this,
[10:49] who gets what. And in those moments,
[10:52] they're the death doulas are also having
[10:54] conversations around
[10:56] um their advanced care directives.
[10:59] What does a good death look like to
[11:00] them?
[11:02] And writing it, putting it on paper, and
[11:04] creating a living will.
[11:06] So,
[11:08] the creativity is really infinite. Uh at
[11:10] first when I started seeing death doulas
[11:13] doing so many different things
[11:15] there was a part of me that was like, oh
[11:17] no, no, we're supposed to just
[11:19] do the non-medical care part. And then
[11:23] I realized, you know what? This is
[11:24] really beautiful. We need more people
[11:27] doing all of these things and helping
[11:30] the conversations happen and the
[11:32] comfortability around death a reality.
[11:35] Yep. Thank you so much.
[11:37] >> This course, as Sierra has just
[11:40] described, if you're listening or
[11:41] watching, is one of those
[11:44] kind of I wish it was required of all
[11:48] adults on Earth.
[11:50] We would all be a lot more comfortable
[11:52] with the prospect, not just of someone
[11:54] else's death whom we love, but our own.
[11:57] Sierra is a very steady presence and
[12:00] maybe you can see that already, but
[12:03] certainly at the bedside, definitely as
[12:05] a teacher, there's a quality of care
[12:08] that she offers to the students in this
[12:10] course. I've been through it.
[12:13] And it it means a lot to me to share it
[12:16] with you.
[12:17] I wonder if there are any questions.
[12:19] Yeah, I wonder if there are any
[12:20] questions that anyone would like to ask.
[12:22] I'm seeing everyone has joined, but no
[12:24] questions yet. Again, we're talking
[12:26] about Sierra's course. It doesn't start
[12:28] until February. I insisted that we get
[12:30] on now so that we can get as much of the
[12:33] information out there so that as many
[12:35] people as possible can join her.
[12:37] Um it's never a big group necessarily
[12:40] and there are always little breakout
[12:43] groups that happen where you can really
[12:45] dive into your own process with a few
[12:47] other trusted humans on the same path.
[12:50] And I think it's also important to note
[12:52] too that
[12:54] we don't know when our people are going
[12:57] to pass. We don't know when we are going
[12:59] to pass. We do know that in our society
[13:02] we're raised with a certain level of
[13:04] discomfort around the prospect of death.
[13:07] And we also know that we need
[13:09] desperately need this education. We need
[13:12] people like Sierra, like Stephen
[13:14] Jenkinson who are actually teaching what
[13:17] it means to be comfortable, to be at
[13:19] ease with the prospect of death
[13:22] all around.
[13:24] Um my recent studies have brought me to
[13:26] Vipassana practice where the truth of
[13:29] change is the central focus and becoming
[13:32] increasingly more comfortable with
[13:35] change, period, full stop.
[13:38] Um so this continues to interest me and
[13:40] I I want to keep supporting.
[13:43] I am not seeing any questions, but I am
[13:45] seeing your your link, Sierra.
[13:47] choosenurture.com/compassion.
[13:51] That is the link to receive more details
[13:53] on the course that starts in February.
[13:56] The I think this is the third or fourth
[13:58] time you've done it.
[14:00] >> This is the third year, the sixth
[14:02] cohort. And
[14:05] I really
[14:07] I love offering this work in community
[14:10] and even though we're online, we really
[14:13] build a beautiful connection because of
[14:15] these small cohorts. We meet
[14:19] first we we're starting with a
[14:20] self-study. So you can sign up and have
[14:23] access to all of the past 3 years and
[14:26] we've had amazing
[14:28] amazing people come on board including
[14:30] Elena, Andrew Holocek, Esther Perel,
[14:35] Ladybird Morgan
[14:37] and
[14:38] I love teaching this and I want and I
[14:40] love connecting with all of the
[14:43] participants and really helping them
[14:45] shape how does this
[14:48] study influence their life, their
[14:50] relationships, and their creativity,
[14:52] their offerings, their work. So I only
[14:55] offer this twice a year so that I can be
[14:57] part of everyone's experience.
[15:00] And like you said, I don't want it to be
[15:02] 500
[15:03] people in one cohort at all. We don't
[15:06] allow that. We have
[15:09] two or three small group guides.
[15:12] So we meet in the big group on February
[15:15] 3rd, the following week a small group
[15:18] with about 10 or less people, the big
[15:21] group and that's where I bring people on
[15:22] board to talk about their expertise,
[15:25] people like we've had in the past,
[15:27] Andrew, yourself, Esther.
[15:31] >> Can I come back for the next one?
[15:32] >> Absolutely.
[15:34] >> Yes.
[15:34] >> Cool.
[15:34] >> Please. We've had Deva Deva and Miten
[15:37] >> Oh yeah.
[15:39] >> Right.
[15:39] >> Because I've I've had 30 years of
[15:41] experience, I give a lot on the end of
[15:44] life process. I like bringing in others
[15:47] who have different perspectives like
[15:49] psychotherapists in relationships,
[15:51] family dynamics, um
[15:54] psychedelics and end of life, Ladybird
[15:56] Morgan spoke on that,
[15:58] the Buddhist perspective, we've had also
[16:01] the
[16:02] Jewish perspective on celebrations of
[16:06] life, um
[16:09] how we approach the physical body at the
[16:12] end of life,
[16:14] how we wrap the body with cloth, how we
[16:17] create ceremonies and rituals. So, the
[16:21] Basically, the self-study has so much
[16:23] information. It's over 100 hours of
[16:27] of contents to dive in and get started.
[16:30] >> Great. Uh so, a couple things from my
[16:33] end and then we have a question from one
[16:34] of our viewers. So,
[16:37] the one of the reasons why Sierra and I
[16:40] became close, if you're watching or
[16:42] listening, was uh several years ago
[16:44] James's mom was
[16:47] diagnosed, you know, terminally. It was
[16:49] not getting any better. The
[16:52] the immunotherapy had ceased to work in
[16:54] her body.
[16:56] And so, she began planning and I put her
[16:57] in touch with Sierra. Her name is Lou,
[16:59] was Lou. I put her in touch with Sierra
[17:02] and she and Sierra hit it off and Sierra
[17:04] was basically her hand held for 2 years
[17:08] before she died.
[17:10] And she slowly got more and more
[17:12] accustomed to the idea of her own death
[17:14] until at the end she was so composed,
[17:17] she chose medical assistance in death.
[17:20] I washed her face and some of her body,
[17:23] face, hands, feet at the end.
[17:26] And it was one of the most beautiful
[17:28] days of my life. She asked me to serve
[17:30] tea before she took the concoction that
[17:33] would slowly put her organs to an end.
[17:38] She was so present and I remember all of
[17:40] us there, we were about five of us there
[17:42] and a Franciscan friar came through and
[17:45] we all got to sit with her for a few
[17:47] moments and the magic of this was when I
[17:50] sat with her, I sat down.
[17:52] I didn't have anything to say. I was
[17:53] just so proud of her and all I told her
[17:55] was that I was proud of her. And I held
[17:57] her hand and I closed my eyes and we
[18:00] just sat and sort of meditated for a few
[18:02] moments.
[18:03] And it was so profound. I could already
[18:05] feel
[18:06] the end of that life in my hand.
[18:10] I'll never be able to describe it
[18:11] appropriately.
[18:13] When she passed, uh I'll tell the story
[18:16] uh again and again endlessly, but when
[18:18] she passed, I put on Neils, N E i l l.
[18:22] She has a beautiful rendition of the
[18:24] Heart Sutra, and I put that on once she
[18:26] had taken the medicine. I put it on
[18:28] repeat.
[18:29] And she passed in about 40 minutes, but
[18:30] her very last words were,
[18:33] "Wow, is this the Heart Sutra?"
[18:37] >> [laughter]
[18:39] >> It makes me cry every time. It was such
[18:40] a blessing. Can you imagine that your
[18:42] last words
[18:44] Heart Sutra.
[18:47] >> [laughter]
[18:48] >> Such a blessing. And Sierra, you're the
[18:49] reason why I had the courage to
[18:52] to do everything that we did with her.
[18:54] >> Wow. You and James went over and beyond.
[18:56] It was uh you created an amazing portal
[19:00] for her to transition with such
[19:03] patience. It was it required a lot of
[19:05] patience, you know, it's a
[19:07] It is a brave decision to take medical
[19:10] assistance, and
[19:12] you know, a lot of people think, "Oh my
[19:14] god, you know, being a death doula,
[19:16] you're spending so much time with people
[19:17] in end-of-life."
[19:19] I spent more than 2 years getting to
[19:22] know Lou,
[19:23] and
[19:24] as much as yes, we're there at the end,
[19:28] uh we live right up till the end. So,
[19:30] this work is so life-affirming,
[19:33] and I remember at least almost a year
[19:35] ago or so, Elena, we were working
[19:38] together with someone who thought they
[19:40] had a terminal diagnosis.
[19:43] Uh we got on the call. It was pancreatic
[19:45] cancer, and very quickly, you know, I I
[19:48] tend to ask questions like, "Well, you
[19:50] know, right right off the bat, are you
[19:53] you ready to pack it up? I mean,
[19:55] is this it?" And the woman was like,
[19:58] "No,
[19:59] absolutely not." And so, I found that,
[20:01] you know, we shifted
[20:04] and took the position of being a really
[20:06] good friend. It was And that's what a
[20:07] lot of this work is. It's like, "Okay,
[20:09] well, do you want to search
[20:11] immunotherapy?
[20:12] Um what about holistic integrative
[20:15] modalities?" And
[20:17] that person um
[20:19] I believe is thriving.
[20:21] You know,
[20:23] and so, we never know. And even in
[20:25] hospice, people think when they call
[20:27] hospice that people are just going to
[20:29] show up and help someone through the
[20:32] end. But what's interesting is often
[20:34] patients get better.
[20:36] And sometimes they get so much better
[20:37] because they were they're actually
[20:39] receiving care that they go off of
[20:42] hospice.
[20:44] >> That happens a lot.
[20:45] >> eligible anymore. So it it's really good
[20:48] to never be scared to call hospice as
[20:50] early as possible. And get them in
[20:52] there.
[20:53] >> Thank you for that. I wanted I want to
[20:55] answer the two questions that are in the
[20:57] chat. And I also want to talk about the
[20:59] definition of hospice for any of our
[21:01] viewers that might not know. But first,
[21:04] Slowly R, we just assisted our dear
[21:06] friend with her living funeral. She
[21:08] capitalized F U N.
[21:10] And it was so giving, lovely, such an
[21:12] outpouring before her passing.
[21:14] To support the family in these post
[21:16] weeks after the death, what advice or
[21:19] learning is suggested Sierra?
[21:22] >> The first thing is don't ask, just do.
[21:26] Just bring them the food. Bring them the
[21:29] support that you know that they need.
[21:32] And
[21:35] yes, it it's some people might feel like
[21:38] they need to be alone, okay? But I I
[21:41] would say let them push you away.
[21:44] And so what I mean by that is um
[21:47] >> [clears throat]
[21:47] >> be present, show up. Um don't be like,
[21:51] "Yeah, they're grieving, you know, I'll
[21:53] just let them be alone." No, go see
[21:55] them, bring a meal, bring a gift, check
[21:58] in. If you don't know what to say, say
[22:00] exactly that, "I don't know what to say
[22:03] right now, but I'm right here."
[22:05] >> Beautiful.
[22:06] >> That's enough. And yes, that that just
[22:08] your presence
[22:10] is everything.
[22:11] >> Yeah.
[22:12] And additionally, having been on the
[22:15] receiving end of that, to to show up,
[22:18] to offer something and say, "Okay,
[22:20] would you like me to stick around? I'm
[22:22] happy to go. Otherwise, I know that this
[22:24] is a a
[22:25] a certain amount of certain time for
[22:27] you.
[22:28] And to offer and to not take any answer
[22:31] personally is such a gift to the family
[22:34] of the person who has passed. So, just
[22:36] remember, nothing is personal.
[22:39] Nothing is personal.
[22:40] In other materials that we've created
[22:43] together, Sierra and I have talked about
[22:44] precision advocacy, which is a very
[22:47] important term to understand.
[22:49] I have a dear teacher who's going
[22:51] through some chemotherapy right now, and
[22:53] I've now taken the idea of precision
[22:56] advocacy into how I serve her.
[22:59] I'm not seeing her a whole lot,
[23:01] but I do have an appointment to go see
[23:03] her, and I said, "Okay, in the service,
[23:06] in the spirit of precision advocacy,
[23:09] what exactly can I bring, if anything?"
[23:12] And she said, "Well, nauseous." And so,
[23:15] I dropped off a bunch of oils and some
[23:17] teas to settle her belly, and that was
[23:20] perfect. So, precision advocacy on both
[23:23] sides, what precisely could I do? If you
[23:26] want to ask, as Sierra has suggested,
[23:29] don't ask and just bring and just show
[23:31] up.
[23:32] I'm one to ask, and I will just say, "Is
[23:34] there anything that I can bring? It's my
[23:36] great pleasure."
[23:38] And sometimes that can be lovely. So,
[23:40] both work.
[23:43] >> That's beautiful. And like the oils are
[23:46] fabulous. A self-care ritual, anything
[23:50] that you can do. Just say, "Hey, I'm
[23:52] taking a walk today, a hike. You want to
[23:55] come along with me?"
[23:56] >> Exactly.
[23:57] >> And Suzanne is
[23:59] >> Yeah.
[24:00] Yeah. Thank you for that.
[24:02] Suzanne has commented that she wishes
[24:04] she would have known about end-of-life
[24:07] medical assistance
[24:10] far in advance of the time that she did
[24:13] because her father ended up having a
[24:15] much more long prolonged, painful death.
[24:19] Had he had the medicine, he would have
[24:20] been able to choose it sooner and would
[24:22] have chosen it sooner.
[24:24] I want to let the viewer know here that
[24:27] if you are thinking about medical
[24:29] assistance for yourself or for a
[24:31] relative, the best idea is to get
[24:35] research done, get it sooner than later,
[24:38] and just have it.
[24:40] Have it there.
[24:41] Because you can't get it once you are
[24:44] incapacitated and unable to sign a piece
[24:46] of paper.
[24:47] And that's a really important thing. Uh
[24:50] we were so happy that Lou, James' mom,
[24:52] had done that because she had literally
[24:55] this absolutely brilliant ceremony for
[24:57] the end of her life that she wouldn't
[24:59] have had. She would have had to suffer
[25:00] for at least two, three more months
[25:03] getting her legs swelling and her body
[25:05] so uncomfortable, unable to move.
[25:08] It just would have been really painful
[25:10] for her, and she avoided that whole
[25:12] chapter. So, Suzanne, I very much
[25:15] appreciate your comment here. Thank you
[25:17] so much for that.
[25:18] >> Yes, it's um
[25:20] that's why it's called death with
[25:22] dignity.
[25:23] >> Yep.
[25:23] >> And it gives us all the opportunity to
[25:26] choose our own way if we indeed have a
[25:29] terminal diagnosis.
[25:31] I do a lot of advanced care directives
[25:34] with people, with elders who are
[25:36] concerned that they might have dementia,
[25:38] and what would they do in the case of
[25:40] dementia?
[25:41] Um these are all things we go over
[25:43] really deeply in the course, but these
[25:45] are the conversations that are important
[25:47] to have with aging loved ones.
[25:49] >> Yes.
[25:49] >> Um because we don't want to see them in
[25:52] a nursing home
[25:54] for 10 years, you know, because
[25:57] because they they have forgotten,
[25:59] right? Because they're suffering from
[26:00] dementia.
[26:02] Um in the next 5 to 10 years, that will
[26:04] become more readily available
[26:06] in the states that medical assistance in
[26:09] death is legal.
[26:11] Yeah, so we're there we're seeing more
[26:13] cases being accepted for patients with
[26:17] dementia, but the right now the rule is
[26:20] you need to be able to take the
[26:21] medication on your own.
[26:23] Mhm. [clears throat] You need to be
[26:24] cognizant, and um
[26:28] >> Yes, you need to pick it up.
[26:30] >> and communicate and say yes, this is and
[26:32] speak and communicate and say yes, this
[26:34] is definitely what uh
[26:36] this is what I I absolutely want and I'm
[26:38] in my right mind to say that. And I I
[26:41] always recommend making a video.
[26:44] I have with the elders in my life and
[26:45] those I work with, I have them make a
[26:47] video and say this is exactly if this
[26:50] happens to me, if I have a stroke, if I
[26:53] have X Y Z,
[26:55] um this these are my wishes for care.
[26:57] These are my thresholds. I'm in my right
[27:00] mind.
[27:01] Um these things can become important
[27:04] later and it they I often tell people
[27:06] this will take 5 minutes and then we
[27:08] don't have to think about this ever
[27:10] again.
[27:11] >> And avoid years of court litigation like
[27:14] all kinds of things that I've seen
[27:16] happen in families.
[27:17] >> Yeah.
[27:18] >> And preserve I would like to um
[27:20] invite folks to ask questions if you do
[27:23] have any questions and I would also like
[27:24] to read a section of my chaplaincy book
[27:27] report paper on being with dying because
[27:30] it will be a a huge feature in the
[27:32] course and I think this might
[27:35] um
[27:36] really be helpful and serve you in
[27:39] getting what this is about. Is that okay
[27:41] with you, Sierra?
[27:42] >> Yeah, but but before you do that I want
[27:44] to address something Suzanne says. She
[27:47] said it was such a deep privilege to be
[27:49] there for both of my parents' deaths and
[27:51] to hold a home home funerals.
[27:53] Home funerals are the future. They the
[27:57] funeral industry is so corrupt.
[28:00] And
[28:01] it's just
[28:03] uh
[28:04] this blows my mind in the United States,
[28:06] there are only really two people who can
[28:09] handle
[28:11] uh legally uh
[28:13] a dead body. And that's the
[28:17] someone with a license in the funeral as
[28:19] a funeral director and family members.
[28:23] And usually family members don't know
[28:25] this. A doctor cannot transport, cannot
[28:28] make decisions. It's It's just these two
[28:30] people.
[28:31] And you have all the rights
[28:36] that you for to have a home funeral or a
[28:39] funeral in a place that doesn't have to
[28:40] be a funeral home.
[28:42] All right, you can do a funeral your own
[28:45] way and I think we've just been so in
[28:47] trained to think we need to go to the
[28:48] funeral home. It needs to be this kind
[28:50] of casket. It needs to be what maybe
[28:52] other your your grandparents and parents
[28:55] did
[28:56] and that can be so expensive.
[28:59] And this is where the industry is just
[29:02] ripe corruption and that prays on
[29:05] people. So just keep that in mind that
[29:08] you know, this is something that death
[29:09] doulas are doing a lot of at home
[29:11] funerals and there you don't need to
[29:13] have a funeral license. Um
[29:17] you know, you can create beautiful
[29:19] celebrations with families and allow the
[29:21] families to make the decisions that they
[29:24] want. Even in a hospital you you can
[29:26] request
[29:28] um
[29:29] to bring the body home. You have a
[29:31] couple days. It doesn't have to be
[29:33] whisked away. They have a lot of rights
[29:36] to have your own you know, to continue
[29:39] the the process of dignity.
[29:41] Yes.
[29:43] >> I um just put in this link to an article
[29:47] on the New York Times and at the very
[29:48] same moment Suzanne did the same.
[29:51] >> I see that.
[29:52] >> How weird is that? Um so wonderful. So
[29:55] that's there. I'll make sure to include
[29:57] that in the notes after this recording
[30:00] is posted. Um Sierra, you'll have it on
[30:03] yours. I'll have it on mine and usually
[30:05] what I do is I actually indicate that I
[30:07] want to um
[30:09] edit it before it goes up. So that's
[30:12] what I do.
[30:13] I want to thank you guys for being here
[30:15] and I'm going to read a section of my
[30:18] chaplaincy book report on being with
[30:20] dying by Joan Halifax Roshi.
[30:23] This is my fourth read of being with
[30:25] dying. The timing is strangely perfect.
[30:28] I've just brought my son to college. My
[30:30] role as a mother comes to an end while a
[30:32] new role commences. Am I a guide, a mom,
[30:35] a friend, a chaplain? All feel true.
[30:37] From Roshi's writing and heart, I see
[30:39] how I began these few months feeling as
[30:41] though not knowing
[30:43] was a scary mire.
[30:46] Now that uncertainty is a refuge of
[30:48] truth, as referenced on page nine in the
[30:50] book, this reading brought me back to
[30:52] myself, my calling, my purpose, my own
[30:55] mortality, and the beauty of all that
[30:57] surrounds me from the departure of the
[30:59] boy to the pain of the dying patients
[31:02] and their families with whom I find
[31:03] myself in contact.
[31:05] I've learned a new definition for wisdom
[31:07] through this book.
[31:09] A ready mind.
[31:12] Less reliant on concrete knowable facts,
[31:15] being with dying reminds me to come
[31:17] fresh.
[31:18] Whether to hospice or a chance meeting
[31:20] with my son in the garage one morning
[31:22] recently in which he was being less than
[31:24] cordial.
[31:25] This is the courageous mind that is able
[31:27] to separate from the familiar landscape
[31:29] of mental business
[31:31] and dwell in the still reality of how
[31:34] things are rather than how we think they
[31:36] should be.
[31:39] A ready mind is Sierra, in my humble
[31:42] opinion, what you offer
[31:45] to all of us to develop as we go through
[31:47] your courses.
[31:50] And I couldn't recommend it highly
[31:51] enough. Again, I asked Sierra to be here
[31:55] well in advance of the start of the
[31:57] course in February because you have an
[31:59] opportunity to sign up and to gain
[32:01] access to all of the prior content in
[32:05] that course.
[32:07] It is
[32:08] a wonder and a really important access
[32:11] point for all of us right now to have.
[32:14] And the link once again, Sierra, please.
[32:18] >> Yes.
[32:20] Thank you, Elizabeth, for Thank you for
[32:22] reading that first. That's beautiful. I
[32:24] love the ready mind. I absolutely agree.
[32:27] And you are just such a a voracious
[32:30] reader, Elena, but you're still able to
[32:32] maintain the beginner's mind. And that's
[32:35] what we have to do at the bedside of the
[32:37] dying because we don't know and we might
[32:40] have our own viewpoints of how
[32:43] what we think a great end of life would
[32:45] be, what it would look like with Zen
[32:47] Buddhism, what it looks like in Tibetan
[32:49] Buddhism, but that doesn't matter when
[32:51] we come alongside someone else. It's
[32:53] their death, it's their spirituality,
[32:56] and it's the ultimate learning
[32:57] experience from
[33:00] from what from the last 30 years, I
[33:03] as much as sometimes I've wanted to take
[33:06] a break from it.
[33:07] I keep coming back and more and more
[33:10] with more intensity.
[33:12] >> Extremely fulfilling work. That's all
[33:14] there is to it. Whether it's your own
[33:17] family or someone else.
[33:19] Of course, there are exceptions to this
[33:21] rule when someone is mentally unwell or
[33:25] there's some very prolonged situation
[33:28] without help. Those situations are very,
[33:31] very, very challenging and I just want
[33:33] to honor that. A lot of us have been
[33:35] through that.
[33:38] Mostly the honor of being there at the
[33:41] bedside of somebody who's dying is a is
[33:43] a big a big privilege and that's what
[33:47] that's what keeps me going back.
[33:50] >> It's a big privilege and the
[33:52] hospice [clears throat] programs that I
[33:54] we need to define that that I've
[33:55] volunteered in.
[33:57] It's
[33:59] really incredible to be bedside to
[34:02] someone who's homeless.
[34:04] I mean what
[34:05] a humbling
[34:07] incredible experience. My first time was
[34:09] in San Francisco in 2013 or 20 around
[34:13] 2013 at the Zen Hospice. They brought in
[34:15] a lot of people who were homeless.
[34:18] Here where I live in Ibiza, Spain,
[34:20] that's there are a few homeless people
[34:23] in the residencia
[34:25] that I have visited at the end of life
[34:27] and
[34:28] it is
[34:29] like I said, it's very humbling and
[34:33] to meet someone at that point of their
[34:35] journey at the very end and they have
[34:37] all of this story.
[34:40] There's this moment where it's like the
[34:41] story doesn't matter. We are just so
[34:43] present for what's happening now, which
[34:46] is bathing, comfortability,
[34:49] and that's really the heart of hospice.
[34:51] It's how do we keep the patient,
[34:54] the person, the human that's inevitably
[34:58] um
[34:59] facing
[35:01] possibly a terminal diagnosis. Usually
[35:04] it's the end of life, but it's not
[35:05] always.
[35:06] Um how do we support them and bring
[35:09] comfort?
[35:11] So a lot of hospice is comfort care.
[35:14] It's different than palliative, where
[35:16] palliative
[35:17] we're still intervening. Palliative care
[35:20] physicians are giving medications to
[35:23] prolong life.
[35:25] In hospice,
[35:27] the goal is to yes, keep the palliative
[35:29] care going if it keeps comforts and pain
[35:32] away, but our focus is not to
[35:34] necessarily prolong life.
[35:38] >> So if palliative care serves in
[35:40] alleviating pain,
[35:42] it's included in hospice, but it's not
[35:44] necessarily
[35:46] hospice equals palliative care.
[35:49] >> Exactly. A patient might have might be
[35:52] on
[35:53] um
[35:54] blood thinners and things, and for
[35:57] congestive heart failure, and you know,
[35:59] if we took them off all their
[36:01] medication,
[36:02] um
[36:03] because they they don't they want to
[36:06] surrender,
[36:07] and I just want to mention here, you
[36:09] know, over time the last 50 years we've
[36:11] medicalized death, but death is not
[36:13] really a medical event.
[36:16] We've we've made it that. If you really
[36:18] look at what is the end of life,
[36:21] it's um it's really one of the most
[36:25] relational experiences of our lives. We
[36:28] inevitably become quite dependent on the
[36:31] people that love us,
[36:33] and what's very interesting is that they
[36:36] they reciprocate that.
[36:38] They feel the call, and they need to be
[36:40] there, too.
[36:41] They need to be there just as much as
[36:43] the person dying needs the help and
[36:46] support. And so, it's really incredible
[36:48] to me how angels just show up for
[36:50] people.
[36:52] >> Yeah, that keeps happening in those
[36:54] moments.
[36:54] >> are so beautiful.
[36:55] So beautiful. I'm going to be part of a
[36:58] team tending to a man doing VSED.
[37:02] As a sort of parting thought here, VSED
[37:06] is voluntarily stopping eating and
[37:09] drinking.
[37:11] And typically, the arc of time is can be
[37:16] anywhere from a week to 2 weeks, but
[37:18] this man has opted to start that on
[37:21] November the 1st. So, I'll be in there.
[37:23] I'm slotted in at some point in those
[37:25] days
[37:26] to see if I can just do anything for the
[37:28] family. Anything from the dishes to
[37:32] sitting with him, holding his hand.
[37:34] Whatever is really most of service.
[37:38] And there are so many different ways to
[37:41] serve these humans. And it is such, as
[37:43] I've mentioned so many times, such an
[37:45] honor to do that work.
[37:48] And it
[37:49] when I'm in those situations, time has
[37:51] stops. I get out of there, it's 3, 4, 5
[37:54] hours later,
[37:56] and it's like a whole new world. All the
[37:58] colors are super bright. I have the
[38:01] capacity to move my body and do things
[38:03] and go and make a meal, and it's it it
[38:06] gives me such an appreciation for my
[38:09] life, for my family, for my partnership,
[38:12] for my friends.
[38:14] And that's why I keep going.
[38:16] And that's why I keep recommending your
[38:17] work, Sarah, because it's just the
[38:19] finest that I've found out there.
[38:21] >> Thank you. What you just described is
[38:23] it's a practice.
[38:25] Being with dying is a practice.
[38:28] And it that feeling of like petals
[38:31] opening and blossoming. That's that like
[38:35] everything is new when you leave a
[38:37] scenario like that. Yeah. It's that's
[38:40] it. Also, why I keep coming back to this
[38:42] work. It's it's beyond a reset. It
[38:45] really
[38:47] is um
[38:48] truly enlightening.
[38:50] Yeah. The experience in it
[38:53] And it just takes showing up.
[38:56] Yeah. And not not trying to fix, save,
[38:58] just just show up.
[39:01] Yeah. Any books? Yes. We have a question
[39:03] from Rebecca about books.
[39:05] Um
[39:06] Five invitations, of course.
[39:08] Yeah. I'll include in my uh rendition of
[39:12] this
[39:13] um
[39:13] you know, sort of in my posting of this
[39:15] live, I'll include a a little book list
[39:18] for you.
[39:19] Beautiful. Yes. One other question. I
[39:22] think you can see it.
[39:25] As a death doula, are you working with
[39:27] the hospice agency? How does this
[39:29] relationship work? Is the patient your
[39:31] client?
[39:32] So,
[39:33] I recommend starting if you've never had
[39:36] any experience, start volunteering with
[39:39] hospice.
[39:40] And the death doulas are working
[39:42] alongside
[39:44] um hospice agencies,
[39:46] either volunteering. We're just at the
[39:48] very beginning, like the first one to
[39:50] two years of hospital groups and
[39:52] agencies starting to hire death doulas.
[39:56] Cool.
[39:57] Yes. And usually you're going to need
[39:59] to, you know, take the
[40:01] um
[40:02] take the take a course, but
[40:05] every hospice agency has an
[40:08] an introduction into how their system
[40:11] works. That's why I I suggest start
[40:14] volunteering.
[40:16] Um
[40:16] you get a lot of free education in
[40:18] volunteering, and you meet incredible
[40:21] people from all walks of life that
[40:23] already live in your community.
[40:25] And
[40:27] like I said, we're just beginning um
[40:30] that era where birth doulas
[40:33] they were always working one-to-one with
[40:35] the family, with the pregnant woman.
[40:37] We're just now starting, and many of
[40:39] like five states that I know of in the
[40:41] United States are doing pilot studies
[40:44] with hospital groups and hospice
[40:46] agencies with death doulas.
[40:48] And
[40:49] it's going to look really different for
[40:50] everyone. Some death doulas don't ever
[40:53] work in hospice.
[40:55] Right? They don't work at that stage of
[40:57] the end of life. They work either way
[40:59] before or even after.
[41:02] So,
[41:03] for those who want to work with
[41:05] agencies, get to know the agency, get
[41:07] inside of it now, and start working or
[41:09] volunteering with them, even if you're
[41:11] not trained yet as a death doula.
[41:16] >> Wisdom is a ready mind. Be ready. Be
[41:19] ready for everything. This is the This
[41:21] is the grand teaching of Sierra, my
[41:24] dear, dear, dear friend.
[41:27] Thank you so much for your time today.
[41:29] Thank you for sharing your coursework.
[41:30] Thank you for everything that you give,
[41:32] Sierra. Continuously, so much of it is
[41:35] voluntary
[41:36] that you give, and I'm really proud to
[41:38] be your friend. I'm proud to know you
[41:40] all these years, and I really appreciate
[41:43] you so much.
[41:44] >> Thank you, Elena. Thank you for everyone
[41:47] showing up today and asking questions.
[41:50] We'll keep this conversation going,
[41:52] and
[41:53] just thank you.
[41:55] >> This is an ongoing one. I will have this
[41:57] up on my page soonest, probably in the
[42:00] next few hours,
[42:01] and I look forward to sharing all the
[42:03] resources with you. So, if you're here
[42:05] and you want to you you didn't get that
[42:06] link or whatever you're missing, I will
[42:08] have it
[42:09] in the sort of notes underneath the
[42:12] video on the post that I'll put up
[42:13] later.
[42:14] Thank you so much again.
[42:16] Thank you.
[42:17] >> Thank you.
[42:19] >> Yeah.