Transcript
[0:05] [music]
[0:11] [music]
[0:19] Namaste. Welcome my friends.
[0:22] Like to start with an inquiry for you.
[0:25] Uh please don't add any judgment to it.
[0:28] And the question is how much joy do you
[0:32] experience in your life? How much joy do
[0:36] you experience?
[0:39] And I ask this because joy is a part of
[0:44] our natural human capacity and yet our
[0:48] habits of thought and feeling can keep
[0:51] us from experiencing it. It can be quite
[0:53] rare actually. So opening to joy takes
[0:57] intention and it can be cultivated.
[1:01] Um there's no one I know who's explored
[1:04] and taught about joy more than my very
[1:07] dear friend and teaching colleague James
[1:09] Barz. And today we're having a
[1:12] conversation about joy. Uh what it is,
[1:15] why it matters, what blocks it, what
[1:18] helps us access it. And we'll also look
[1:21] at finding joy in difficult times and
[1:24] how joy can deepen our resilience, our
[1:27] connection, really our whole engagement
[1:29] with life. I want to tell you a little
[1:31] bit more about James. He's the founding
[1:34] teacher of or one of the founding
[1:36] teachers of Spirit Rock. He's the author
[1:39] of Awakening Joy and he leads year-long
[1:42] programs on the same theme. He's done it
[1:44] for 23 years.
[1:47] And just as a human, James is one of the
[1:49] most generous, caring, and wise beings I
[1:53] know. So, I trust you'll enjoy what's to
[1:56] come.
[2:00] Namaste friends. Welcome. Thank you for
[2:03] being here and welcome James.
[2:07] I am so glad to have you with us uh to
[2:10] share you with this community.
[2:14] So, thank you for coming.
[2:16] [clears throat]
[2:16] >> Thank you. so much for having me. I I
[2:18] get to talk with one of my favorite
[2:20] people in the world. What [laughter]
[2:22] could be better than that?
[2:25] [snorts]
[2:25] >> Uh well, let me start with uh I'm going
[2:28] to ask you a question. I'm very curious
[2:30] about that. I
[2:33] talk to people a lot about, you know,
[2:35] work or relationships, their family,
[2:38] their health, their travel, and a lot of
[2:40] emotions can get expressed, but not the
[2:44] word joy. so often it seems rare. So
[2:47] what I wanted to start with asking you
[2:49] was what do you mean by joy and do you
[2:54] think it's rare?
[2:58] Um well
[3:01] when I say joy,
[3:04] it can cover the whole the whole range
[3:07] of
[3:09] wholesome states that make us feel
[3:13] alive. And in in Buddhist teachings, joy
[3:18] is in a lot of lists. It's in the the
[3:21] divine abodess and it's in the seven
[3:23] factors of enlightenment and it's in a
[3:26] number of different lists. Um but um but
[3:32] it also um can stand for there are a
[3:36] number of other similar
[3:39] um states from
[3:43] happiness which is often like a softer
[3:47] less intense than rapture or bliss or
[3:53] contentment
[3:54] or peace or gladness.
[3:59] And in the in the the Buddhist way of
[4:02] seeing things, actually the Buddha kind
[4:04] of turns it things on on its head, we
[4:07] usually think go for the gusto. More
[4:10] intense is better. And in his way of
[4:13] thinking, he says, "Yeah, bliss and
[4:16] rapture,
[4:18] they're good. They're fun. He he enjoyed
[4:20] them himself, but it can be exhausting."
[4:25] So um
[4:28] more refined is a is a a a softer more
[4:32] sustainable kind of um wider happiness
[4:36] and even better than that is contentment
[4:39] and even better than that is peace. So,
[4:44] I don't say uh awakening contentment.
[4:47] It's not not as catchy, but um when I
[4:51] say joy, I'm talking about really all of
[4:54] those states of well-being that are in
[4:57] us. And each person gets expressed in a
[5:00] in a different way. Your energy, your
[5:03] personality, your experience, um they
[5:07] all have to do with a a quality of
[5:10] expansiveness.
[5:12] uh that all of those wholesome states
[5:14] have in common as opposed to contraction
[5:17] that all of the unh wholesome or
[5:21] unhealthy or um what's called accusal
[5:24] states like fear and anger and and
[5:28] wanting and all of those things. They're
[5:30] all states of contraction.
[5:33] So awakening joy,
[5:36] it's right inside of us. We don't have
[5:38] to go looking for it. I don't say
[5:40] discovering finding joy. It's it's
[5:43] intrinsic to all of us and we just uh
[5:46] given the right conditions and and and
[5:49] the right support and and perhaps uh
[5:53] with practice it becomes more and more
[5:56] the place that we live from.
[5:58] >> Uh but that's who we come into this
[6:00] world with. Come into this world if a
[6:04] baby is fed and diapered and given a
[6:06] little bit of love. Um wow. Oh, isn't
[6:09] life wonderfully squeal with delight and
[6:11] that's our true nature?
[6:14] >> Well, I think it's really helpful when
[6:17] you said that they all come from that
[6:19] quality. There's an expansiveness, a
[6:22] non-contraction. And to me, that's very
[6:25] it's a really helpful way for me to to
[6:28] understand. Um I often think of I was at
[6:34] one retreat and uh [clears throat] one
[6:36] of the men that was doing interviews or
[6:39] meeting with me, you know, he he went
[6:41] through these all these ups and downs,
[6:43] you know, he he he was opening to his
[6:46] fear and grief, but also
[6:49] >> [clears throat]
[6:49] >> um stillness, you know, peace. And when
[6:53] he left, he said something that stayed
[6:54] with me. He said, you know, the joy is
[6:58] in getting real.
[7:00] The joy is in getting real. And it
[7:02] really resonated what you were saying is
[7:05] that if we have that spaciousness, you
[7:09] know, where we're open to h whatever's
[7:11] there, that kind of a a yes to life, it
[7:13] can take shape as a more quiet happiness
[7:16] or a more, you know, exuberant joy. But
[7:19] the quality of including
[7:22] of agreeing to life however it is in the
[7:25] moment um you know you know Anthony Dlo
[7:29] puts it absolute cooperation with the
[7:32] inevitable. I know you know that one.
[7:35] >> It's so good isn't it?
[7:37] >> That's great. Yeah. When for me um after
[7:41] I was teaching this uh I started a long
[7:44] time ago and I was saying okay what is
[7:46] the essence of it? And for me, it's a a
[7:49] simple equation that um authenticity,
[7:53] being right where you are and feeling a
[7:57] connection, a friendly connection with
[8:00] with wherever you are, there's an
[8:03] aliveness.
[8:04] >> And it's really that aliveness
[8:07] that I call really the essence of
[8:11] of awakening
[8:13] joy and well-being in us.
[8:15] [clears throat]
[8:16] >> Beautiful. Okay. So next thing I want to
[8:19] know is how did you and I know some of
[8:22] the story but how did you become the joy
[8:24] guy and I'm asking because you know you
[8:27] have been teaching I mean you've been
[8:29] teaching Buddhism for over what 50
[8:32] years.
[8:33] >> Yeah. And and for many as you know the
[8:37] central themes of Buddhism are often
[8:39] around opening to suffering and um and
[8:43] so for the last 25 years uh you focused
[8:47] on joy. So how come you focused on joy?
[8:49] I mean was there like something in your
[8:52] life that happened that you realized I'm
[8:54] missing out on part of life you know I'm
[8:56] overlooking the goodness. What what
[8:58] changed? What happened?
[8:59] >> Yeah. Well, as as often is the case, um
[9:04] life wakes us up in different ways. And
[9:07] um and for me, when I first got into the
[9:12] teachings,
[9:14] I had come from a lot of internal pain.
[9:17] It looked pretty good on the outside,
[9:18] but inside I was hurting. And when I
[9:22] first heard it's possible to not be run
[9:25] by neurot neurotic thoughts, I thought,
[9:28] "Wow, I'd never imagined that before."
[9:31] And I said, "I'm going for it." And I I
[9:34] just dove in and did lots of retreats
[9:37] and just found what I was looking for
[9:40] and had um a long honeymoon period about
[9:46] 10 years where as doing as many retreats
[9:49] that was where my life was so alive and
[9:52] then at some point
[9:55] um the honeymoon ended and I lost my
[9:59] joy. uh won't go into the various
[10:03] factors in that but I took that those
[10:08] teachings on suffering
[10:10] life there is suffering in life there's
[10:12] a cause there's an end and there's a
[10:14] path to the end of suffering that's a
[10:16] lot of suffering and I misconstrued some
[10:20] teachings
[10:21] that could easily be uh mistaken and I
[10:26] was hearing the message it's about
[10:28] getting out of here as as quickly as you
[10:31] can. Uh, I sat with this great master
[10:34] who every
[10:36] the [clears throat] end of every talk
[10:38] for a three-month retreat was, "May you
[10:42] speedily attain
[10:44] enlightenment and escape from the woes
[10:46] of this world."
[10:49] And that started to
[10:54] be taken in. Not here. I I I kind of saw
[10:59] that's not really where it's at. But
[11:01] here in my
[11:04] somatic understanding, it's like, whoa,
[11:08] maybe I'm just kind of fooling myself by
[11:11] loving life and enjoying life. And I
[11:13] went through a kind of spiritual crisis
[11:15] where I lost my joy for for quite some
[11:19] time. Uh I believed in mindfulness. I
[11:22] believed in the practice. I knew that I
[11:25] was a better person. But that message um
[11:30] upset my
[11:33] uh my harmony with and and rhythm uh and
[11:38] with life.
[11:40] Fortunately, I didn't turn my back on
[11:43] the teachings cuz the Buddha is called
[11:45] the happy one. And I said, "Why is he
[11:47] called the happy one? He's talking about
[11:50] suffering all the time." And besides the
[11:54] quiet on a meditation cushion, I wanted
[11:57] to take a look and see well what is real
[12:00] happiness sustainable in one's life not
[12:04] just in the quiet of meditation uh about
[12:08] and I went back to the teachings with
[12:10] that investigative eye and found
[12:14] beautiful beautiful teachings on how we
[12:17] can access
[12:19] these states of well-being and really
[12:22] live from them. And that's how I got
[12:24] into writing about joy.
[12:27] >> I love it. And I also know there's a
[12:30] longing for it. I recently I was doing
[12:33] this uh had a webinar and I did a kind
[12:37] of chat share, you know, we were talking
[12:39] about what's going on in the world and
[12:41] had people share some of the feelings
[12:43] they were having and one person wrote,
[12:46] "Yay, Ted Lasso is back. [laughter]
[12:51] And you could see everybody else's
[12:53] response. It's like there's such a
[12:56] hunger for it. I mean, we can get so
[12:59] addicted to grim. You know, I can see it
[13:02] in my own temperament. And I know for
[13:05] me, two things got me very intentional
[13:08] about happiness. One is just this core
[13:11] Buddhist teaching that it's possible
[13:13] that it's it's it's as you say, it's our
[13:15] nature. it's possible to to access the
[13:18] al the other thing was getting more
[13:22] understanding of our evolution that we
[13:24] really do have a negativity bias a
[13:28] strong conditioning and the more fear
[13:29] there is the more we latch on to the
[13:32] what's wrong so it actually takes
[13:35] intention to unhook and say hey
[13:40] >> I really want to include it's not like I
[13:42] want to live 24/7 in some, you know,
[13:47] ecstatic space. It's but I want that
[13:49] spaciousness, that energy and aliveness
[13:52] you described. I want to have access to
[13:54] it.
[13:55] >> Um,
[13:56] >> yeah.
[13:57] >> I'm sorry. Yeah.
[13:58] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[13:59] >> That that that that is in uh in the book
[14:03] that I wrote and the course that I
[14:05] teach, there are 10 steps and the first
[14:08] step is the key one, the intention
[14:13] for happiness. making that your priority
[14:17] instead of oh when I retire I'll be
[14:19] happy when I meet the right person I'll
[14:21] be happy how can I um how can I open up
[14:25] to life in this moment seeing the good
[14:30] inside and outside and have that as the
[14:32] intention that I'm going to cultivate
[14:35] well-being as much as I can for myself
[14:38] and for everyone and besides the
[14:41] teachings the one other thing that has
[14:44] been part of my history. I came into
[14:47] uh Buddhist teachings uh from um from
[14:52] the a devotional
[14:54] >> uh place you know be here now by Ramdas
[14:58] who was one of my two main teachers
[15:01] changed my life
[15:02] >> and Neim curly baba if I can if it's
[15:07] okay to
[15:09] share this you know this guy he just
[15:12] kind of leaped right out of the book and
[15:15] into into my heart saying,
[15:19] "Love everyone,
[15:22] >> love everyone. Serve everyone. Um,
[15:26] remember what it's all about. Remember
[15:28] God." And that was my nature. I love to
[15:32] sing. I love to dance. I love to have
[15:35] fun. And I had lost that for a while.
[15:38] And now um I got it back. Um and and
[15:42] when I came alive, I said, "Oh, that's
[15:44] who I really am." So, um that was
[15:49] dormant in there for a while and then,
[15:51] "Okay, I'm I'm doing it. Um I'm coming
[15:55] back."
[15:57] >> So, um one of the things we share is how
[16:00] it really comes down to embodying love.
[16:04] And you and I both talk a lot about how
[16:09] right in the middle of that there's the
[16:11] uh how exceptional it is to be able to
[16:14] love our own being. This this being
[16:17] right here. So just want to invite you
[16:21] to speak to that a little and how you
[16:25] guide people. If you could just kind of
[16:27] give a like a little synopsis when
[16:30] someone is really hooked by uh self-
[16:33] aversion by an inner critic.
[16:39] >> That's the key turnaround.
[16:41] >> Mhm.
[16:42] >> That's the key turnaround. you know, the
[16:44] um there's
[16:47] there's mindfulness and there's
[16:49] gratitude and there's dealing with the
[16:51] the hard stuff and there's living with
[16:54] integrity and learning to let go. But um
[16:58] the key is
[17:00] how do I relate to this form of life
[17:02] called me? And when I
[17:06] see people and I'd say oh about 95% of
[17:11] the people who come through retreats
[17:13] um either they have
[17:17] awakened from that self uh criticism or
[17:22] judgment or that's their key step but
[17:24] it's before or after. Um not and it's a
[17:29] continuum but it's kind of instead of
[17:32] having the
[17:34] the negativity bias and looking at
[17:36] yourself through that lens of oh, I
[17:39] can't believe it's me or what do they
[17:41] find out if it's who I really am. It's
[17:44] kind of seeing, oh,
[17:47] like uh I'm thinking of Maryanne
[17:49] Williamson says, you're a child of God.
[17:51] You're playing small doesn't serve the
[17:53] world. And um and so
[17:58] that was the process for me. Like I
[18:00] said, I didn't like myself very much.
[18:02] There's a few different ways uh that I
[18:06] have found helpful to guide people. Um
[18:10] first is to look at all the judgments
[18:13] and see it is that so and just have hold
[18:18] hold all of your
[18:20] um conditioning with a lot of um a lot
[18:24] of compassion and patience and and
[18:26] understanding. These are just habits of
[18:28] mind that you got a lot of company like
[18:32] 99% of the of the world. But then it's
[18:36] going beyond that. [clears throat] And
[18:38] the one way that I have of of sharing,
[18:42] one exercise that I do as far as loving
[18:45] kindness for for yourself is uh inviting
[18:49] people to
[18:51] to think of their their best friend or
[18:54] somebody who who they know really loves
[18:57] them.
[18:59] And
[19:01] um they
[19:05] your best friend sees who you really
[19:08] are. And this came to me on a a long
[19:11] loving kindness retreat. And this was a
[19:13] I was like for six weeks I was
[19:16] practicing opening my heart. And the
[19:18] first week was loving kindness to
[19:19] myself. And it was kind of going okay.
[19:23] So So I wasn't hard on myself. And then
[19:25] somebody popped in my mind who I knew
[19:27] really loved me. And I said, "God, this
[19:29] would be so much easier if I could just
[19:31] see what they see." And then I connected
[19:34] the dots and I said, "What do they see?
[19:37] Why do they love me so much?" And I
[19:39] imagined being them and looking through
[19:43] their eyes at me.
[19:45] And um I saw who I was from a different
[19:50] vantage point that it was so obvious it
[19:54] wasn't like you are some amazing human
[19:56] being. It was just, you know, you're a
[19:59] good guy. That was it. [laughter] That
[20:03] was that was the whole turn. You know,
[20:05] you're a decent guy. Yeah. You're of
[20:08] course I'm getting chills as I'm I'm
[20:11] saying this
[20:13] cuz um
[20:16] it's lifechanging.
[20:18] And um and so I invite people to do that
[20:23] to look at themselves
[20:25] in a in a guided exercise.
[20:28] Just think of somebody who who loves
[20:31] you. See who they see that they wish
[20:34] that you could probably see all the
[20:36] goodness that they see. And then just uh
[20:40] get a sense you've been having a
[20:43] Einstein calls it we live in an optical
[20:46] delusion of consciousness. And just
[20:48] getting out of that optical delusion and
[20:51] seeing what everybody sees except you.
[20:55] You're the last often to know. But that
[20:59] changes everything, you know. I'm
[21:01] curious about you.
[21:03] >> Yeah.
[21:03] >> Yeah. No, I'm with you. um having been
[21:06] immersed in the trance of unworthiness
[21:08] and working my way out for all those
[21:11] decades and working with others and for
[21:14] sure what you're saying to to see the
[21:16] goodness through others eyes helps us
[21:19] trust and that's the that's the freedom
[21:23] uh for me a lot of the pathway was and
[21:26] and then I just thinking of somebody I
[21:28] work with just recently was having the
[21:32] that part that critic which is installed
[21:37] you know come up and in some way sense
[21:40] well what are you trying to do for me
[21:43] and sometimes people say well I'm trying
[21:44] to punish you and I hate you but if you
[21:47] keep going on that question
[21:50] >> what I found was deep down that critic
[21:53] was trying to change me so I'd be
[21:55] lovable and change me so I could get
[21:58] everything I wanted in other words it
[22:00] was acting because it out of love for
[22:03] life but it just misguided, you know,
[22:05] just misguided. But when I could say to
[22:08] that place, okay, I get it. You're
[22:10] trying to help me and thank you. The
[22:13] enough space opened so I could then
[22:16] begin to sense
[22:18] the suffering, the impact of it. And
[22:21] often what I'll guide people to do is
[22:24] just sense, well, how is your life, how
[22:28] has it affected your life to believe
[22:30] that something's wrong with you? like
[22:32] just go way back like what are all the
[22:34] different things it's affected because
[22:38] I can say for myself when I start
[22:41] grasping the effect of turning on myself
[22:44] like how many moments of intimacy were
[22:48] not possible or joy or um just relaxing
[22:55] I I get a kind of soul sadness I can
[22:57] sense the landscape of my life and it's
[22:59] a sadness and we need to feel that
[23:03] compassion about the pain of being at
[23:06] war with ourselves. I don't know if that
[23:08] if I'm saying it so clearly,
[23:10] >> but that's a it's a different but
[23:12] completely synergistic pathway to what
[23:14] you're saying, James, that we need to be
[23:16] able to see through a wider perspective.
[23:18] And we also need to have compassion for
[23:21] the suffering that comes when that
[23:24] programmed critic um it when we're
[23:27] believing or when we're believing its
[23:30] messages and not realizing they're
[23:33] programmed. It's trying to help in a
[23:35] misguided way
[23:37] >> and they're suffering.
[23:39] >> Did it did it happen? Was there any one
[23:42] moment that it happened or was it a more
[23:45] of a gradual process or
[23:47] >> for me I don't remember the first time I
[23:50] started dialoguing
[23:52] you know with the critic and
[23:54] [clears throat] saying what are you
[23:55] trying to do for me
[23:56] >> but it's a process I do with a lot of
[23:58] people like fear you know what are you
[24:00] trying to do I'm trying to protect you
[24:02] well okay thank you
[24:03] >> thank you for trying to protect me and
[24:05] I'm okay you know so but if as soon as
[24:08] we get that every single part of us, no
[24:12] exceptions,
[24:14] is coming from love for life, but it's
[24:16] twisted in a way that ends up not
[24:18] serving, but it's coming from love. Then
[24:21] we enlarge. So that just helped me
[24:24] enlarge in relating to the critic.
[24:28] >> Yeah. Um for me, one of the things that
[24:31] you're saying uh that I I point out in
[24:35] my own way is um we all want to be
[24:39] happy. every one of us.
[24:41] >> Yeah. If I when I ask this in in the joy
[24:45] course and I can sense that some people
[24:47] are going like this and and and I say
[24:50] and if you are keeping your hand down
[24:54] saying no I like being grumpy that's
[24:57] just your way of being happy you
[24:59] [snorts] know but whatever you do you're
[25:01] doing because you think it will make you
[25:03] feel a little bit better or a little
[25:06] less bad but the deepest motivation for
[25:10] everything you do is a movement towards
[25:13] well-being, misguided as it is. And then
[25:18] you just have to find the secret to what
[25:21] real well-being is instead of the
[25:24] messages that we have gotten from our
[25:28] childhood or from from life. The more is
[25:32] better and younger is better and cooler
[25:34] is better and whatever. And just see,
[25:37] oh, where what's real happiness about?
[25:40] And that's when I went back to the
[25:42] Buddhist teachings and and said, "Okay,
[25:45] what are these different wholesome
[25:46] states that um that result in in genuine
[25:52] happiness?" And there's one more thing
[25:55] that what you just said um a moment ago
[25:58] that I want to put a little tweak on uh
[26:02] as far as seeing all of those
[26:06] um all of those habits of
[26:10] self-criticism and and self- judgment
[26:12] and fear. It usually comes down to fear
[26:15] one way or another.
[26:17] I look back on my life
[26:20] and
[26:23] uh I I wouldn't change it that the fear
[26:28] has been a very essential part of my
[26:32] journey like the Buddha living in La La
[26:35] Land for the first 29 years and thinking
[26:38] oh isn't cool and then he sees he sees
[26:42] suffering and that helps him um go on
[26:47] his quest. And for me, I had a lot of
[26:50] fear growing up. I was super shy,
[26:54] super insecure.
[26:57] Um, and uh, I had love also. I had I was
[27:01] fortunate. I had love and I also had a
[27:04] lot of fear. And
[27:07] the fear was what motivated me to try to
[27:12] find another way. So when I look back
[27:16] that way and for anyone who's listening
[27:19] who's still learning to be kind to
[27:22] yourself
[27:24] as Ramda says that's part of your
[27:26] curriculum and now use that
[27:30] as the motivation to come to the end of
[27:34] that and see oh there's another way and
[27:36] it's it's all perfect. It's all per if
[27:39] you know how to use use your life's
[27:42] journey well.
[27:44] Thank you.
[27:46] Um, you said uh something Dalai Lama
[27:50] says it a lot, everyone wants to be
[27:52] happy. And there's something I've
[27:55] noticed a lot um that we deep down want
[27:59] to be happy and
[28:02] often there's a real resistance to
[28:04] happiness. And uh Gay Hendricks calls it
[28:08] the upper limit problem. you know, we we
[28:10] get so used to how we feel when we're
[28:14] stressed that the idea of joy, of real
[28:17] happiness, um you know, it can feel
[28:20] foreign and unsafe. Um in some way, we
[28:23] we think we need to be vigilant and
[28:26] tense against what's around the corner
[28:27] and happiness is expansive. So, there's
[28:30] a fear of that uh vulnerability that
[28:34] that the other shoe will drop if we let
[28:36] ourselves even for a moment. And I think
[28:39] of um a woman in our community, this is
[28:43] years back, who was telling me about a
[28:46] conversation she had with this uh fellow
[28:49] cancer survivor. And the friend said to
[28:51] her, you know, what would it be like for
[28:53] you to feel like something good was
[28:55] going to happen, that there's a
[28:56] potential for some real happiness today?
[28:59] And this woman said, totally weird and
[29:01] uncomfortable. And then the friend said,
[29:03] try it. And I think it's really
[29:06] interesting and this is for all of us to
[29:10] explore joy tolerance because we do have
[29:13] a kind of I I know you understand this
[29:16] like what happens
[29:18] if you say to yourself I want to open
[29:22] more fully to my capacity for joy.
[29:25] What happens if you say that in this
[29:27] season of my life I want to open to that
[29:30] and then just notice is you know is it
[29:33] excitement or is it openness or is there
[29:35] some
[29:37] doubt like I don't deserve it or is it
[29:39] really possible?
[29:41] Um so it gets very interesting to say
[29:43] how much joy am I willing to let in.
[29:47] >> Yeah. Well, that's that's that's why I I
[29:50] put intention at the beginning and you
[29:53] see everything that gets in the way of
[29:54] that like,
[29:56] >> oh my god,
[29:58] >> putting my happiness in the forefront of
[30:00] my life. I can't do that.
[30:03] >> Whether it's the shoe is going to drop
[30:06] or oh, there's so much suffering. Is
[30:09] that is that okay?
[30:10] >> I don't deserve to be Yeah.
[30:12] >> Yeah. uh you know I I that's it's
[30:15] frivolous or um it's selfish or I've got
[30:20] to put everybody else before me um and
[30:25] be a martyr and particularly
[30:28] particularly women in in in in our world
[30:33] who are natural givers
[30:36] um and being and putting themselves last
[30:40] you know I don't want to overgeneralize
[30:42] but It's it's that's that's often how
[30:45] how it works. But men as well, you know,
[30:48] oh, can I really give this to myself and
[30:52] just seeing all of those things that get
[30:54] in the way
[30:56] are the way? And then you you see, oh,
[30:59] there's this belief and this belief, not
[31:01] just belief, there's this internal
[31:06] kinesthetic feeling. It's not okay. It's
[31:10] not safe to open myself up. It's not
[31:15] safe to um to come out.
[31:20] And for many people even more, it's not
[31:23] safe to let in the love coming my way.
[31:27] >> And that that for me is one of the key
[31:30] pieces in all of this. um because we
[31:33] want to protect ourselves and in the
[31:36] protecting we're protecting ourselves
[31:39] from all of the goodness coming our way.
[31:42] So one of my main practices that I offer
[31:45] to people and it is one of my main
[31:47] practices, it's a kind of variation of a
[31:49] Tibetan practice where
[31:52] when somebody smiles at you, opens a
[31:55] door for you, uh asks uh yes, may I help
[31:59] you or how are you to really be there
[32:04] and receive their goodwill, but on a
[32:07] deeper level to see them as agents of
[32:11] life letting you know that you're loved
[32:15] and to [clears throat] just relax
[32:18] and see how much life loves you once you
[32:23] start having your radar out for it. You
[32:26] can see it everywhere. Especially if
[32:29] you're coming out with that energy,
[32:32] that's the energy you attract and it can
[32:36] be overwhelming and you can't hold it
[32:38] all. So the only only thing you can do
[32:40] is just send it right back out. Um but
[32:43] letting in the love is is a key piece um
[32:47] to seeing how how worthy you are, how
[32:52] you are life loving itself through
[32:56] through this form. Oh, okay. I guess I
[33:00] belong.
[33:02] >> Beautiful. I mean, thank you for that
[33:04] because I have found over and over that
[33:08] not letting in love is such a core place
[33:11] of suffering and that like happiness,
[33:14] you have to actually practice because
[33:17] most of us have have a a longing for
[33:21] intimacy and a fear of intimacy. And so
[33:25] most of us feel some fear when we start
[33:28] trying to open to letting it be true
[33:30] that love is flowing here. Um, and I
[33:34] also want to say I think it's so wise
[33:36] that you start both your book and your
[33:39] year-long on joy with intention because
[33:43] I mean the research backs it up. It's
[33:45] like there's all sorts of research now
[33:47] that you know happy people are oriented
[33:50] towards allowing and cultivating
[33:52] positive experience. Like that's part of
[33:54] the research
[33:56] and it's just wisdom. And there's a um
[34:00] you probably have heard of Andre Nuan,
[34:03] you know the he's so [clears throat]
[34:04] he's so wonderful this Catholic mystic
[34:06] and writer. He says that joy does not
[34:10] simply happen to us. We have to choose
[34:12] joy and keep choosing it every day. So
[34:16] like va voom you [laughter] know
[34:18] >> that that's it. You know joy is a choice
[34:21] that we make. Well-being is a choice.
[34:25] And the beautiful thing about the
[34:26] practice is
[34:29] um every moment we have a choice how to
[34:33] meet it. Do we meet it with fear or do
[34:36] we meet it welcoming oh this is what
[34:39] life is giving me? Uh I I love this
[34:42] quote from Einstein. He says perhaps the
[34:46] most important question a human being
[34:48] can ask is is the universe friendly or
[34:51] not? And if you think of it as friendly
[34:55] or as wanting to support you,
[34:59] um you will see it everywhere. And you
[35:02] if you think of it as dangerous, you
[35:04] will see that everywhere. So every
[35:06] moment we have a choice how to
[35:11] um open up to what life is asking us to
[35:15] meet.
[35:17] >> Right on. And what what that makes me
[35:21] think about cuz I've been thinking about
[35:22] what are the blocks to joy and to
[35:25] happiness. I think one of the biggest
[35:29] blocks is fighting difficult emotions.
[35:33] So I just wanted to kind of name that
[35:35] like in a lot of the teachings that you
[35:38] and I are sharing we use uh having tea
[35:42] with Mara like truly
[35:45] recognizing the different waves of the
[35:47] ocean and saying this is a part of the
[35:49] ocean this belongs and one of my friends
[35:53] you I don't know if you know him the
[35:55] Korean author and teacher um well he
[36:00] describes he went through a very
[36:02] difficult phase and he describes that
[36:05] when he hits really big difficulty like
[36:07] super distressed or shame or fear, he
[36:11] gives himself permission to not be all
[36:13] right.
[36:15] And ever since I heard that, I know that
[36:17] sounds like completely some simp simple
[36:20] in some way, but to really give
[36:22] permission to not feel okay is so earthy
[36:26] and so wise because in the moment that
[36:29] on some level I'm saying to myself,
[36:31] okay, it's like this right now. You
[36:33] know, just that simple, the beginnings
[36:36] of that spaciousness you and I were
[36:38] talking about for joy starts opening up
[36:41] because again, joy can be joy that comes
[36:44] because we're opening to sorrow, our
[36:46] pain, and it can come because we're
[36:48] opening to beauty. So, there's something
[36:51] about giving ourselves permission to
[36:54] feel the difficulties that has just for
[36:56] me been more and more alive.
[37:00] It's the It's the key because it's the
[37:03] first noble truth. There is suffering in
[37:05] life and you can either hide hide your
[37:08] head and hope it doesn't find you. Uh
[37:11] it's going to find you. The and the more
[37:13] you run, the more it's it's looking for
[37:15] you. Or you can welcome it. Like that
[37:19] Jennifer Wellwood poem, uh you know,
[37:21] every every condition I flee from
[37:24] pursues me,
[37:25] >> right? Every condition I welcome
[37:28] transforms me and becomes itself
[37:31] transformed into its radiant jewel like
[37:33] essence.
[37:37] >> A a friend I who's no longer with us who
[37:40] I I learned a lot from a really wise
[37:45] uh wisdom teacher Terry Patton um a week
[37:49] before from his hospital bed. he knew he
[37:52] was going to be he didn't have much
[37:54] longer and he did these series of of
[37:57] talks on
[37:59] um on mortality uh when he had gotten
[38:02] this terminal diagnosis and his his
[38:05] students were around him in a week
[38:08] before there's uh this recording of of
[38:11] that talk which I have and one of his
[38:14] students
[38:16] asks uh are you afraid um are you angry
[38:21] Is it confusing in there? And he said,
[38:24] "Those thoughts, those feelings come.
[38:27] They're just part of being human." Then
[38:29] he said, "I don't want to waste my time
[38:33] being in resistance to reality.
[38:36] >> Reality wins every time. And my job is
[38:41] to meet it with grace. I'm enobled by
[38:45] embracing what reality is here to teach
[38:48] me." I've used that line very often. I
[38:51] don't want to you waste my time being in
[38:54] resistance to reality. Reality wins. How
[38:57] can I open to it?
[39:00] >> Deep wisdom. And what's occurring to me
[39:03] as you say it is how radical it is in
[39:07] the face of our current culture where
[39:10] we're we hit buttons or hit links to hop
[39:13] to the next virtual reality rather than
[39:16] open to the real reality. It's it's so
[39:19] deep in our programming and I think
[39:22] anybody who feels that
[39:25] they're not in that trance. some it's
[39:28] there's some hubris to that because the
[39:30] attention economy is so powerful and you
[39:32] and I have talked about this um you know
[39:35] recently and joined together to really
[39:39] deepen our commitment to not being so
[39:41] caught but kind of wanted to invite you
[39:44] to speak a little to how our culture
[39:48] uh can get in the way of experiencing
[39:51] happiness and joy. M yeah
[39:55] I I just I just came as I said to you
[39:57] before we uh we started this uh just
[40:00] came from 4 days uh in nature with all
[40:04] of these um you see um faculty and
[40:09] mindfulness teachers who are teaching
[40:13] uh mindfulness and climate resilience
[40:15] and I'm I'm part of this program and um
[40:19] the the key
[40:22] is to
[40:24] feel life, feel connected with life, to
[40:28] remember that you are life and to not
[40:31] live in your
[40:34] uh your narrow world of my device and
[40:38] doom scrolling or whatever the scrolling
[40:41] is. Um, we need to feel connected to uh
[40:46] to our aliveness to feel alive. And
[40:50] yeah, there's there's a lot of science
[40:53] that's gone into hijacking our
[40:55] attention. And so, you know, you and I
[40:59] I'm still doing our my practice that I
[41:02] promised to you. Hope you are, too. You
[41:05] should check on that later.
[41:07] >> [snorts]
[41:07] >> um that even with a lifetime of [snorts]
[41:13] um cultivating awareness,
[41:15] it's still hard. So, um it it it really
[41:20] it takes it takes support of friends and
[41:25] any way we can to counteract uh that
[41:28] hijack. Uh and remember,
[41:33] remember to feel alive. That's where the
[41:35] real joy is. It's not going to be in the
[41:38] next in the next headline. Um hopefully
[41:42] those headlines can
[41:45] motivate you to try to make it a better
[41:47] world when you see how not only are you
[41:51] caught, but most of the world is caught.
[41:53] And that's what gives life meaning. but
[41:56] to uh to remember
[41:59] to be alive with live face to face even
[42:04] if it's on Zoom like it is now and thank
[42:07] goodness for that but actual face to
[42:10] face contact and and feeling a
[42:13] connection I'm not alone. Let's do this
[42:16] together. Um that's going to be what
[42:19] gets us through to help each other wake
[42:21] up.
[42:23] >> Beautiful. I mean I I so often think
[42:26] about uh you know when I am spending a
[42:29] lot of time taking in too much news or
[42:33] texting or emailing or um working in a
[42:37] certain way I get caught in this
[42:41] basic societal narrative that we're
[42:44] trying to solve problems and get through
[42:46] things and make things happen. And
[42:50] there's a line uh from the poet face
[42:53] that I love which he he says, "What's
[42:55] the difference between us and saints
[42:57] that are filled with joy?" And he says,
[42:59] "I'm afraid you still think you have a
[43:03] thousand serious moves.
[43:06] >> A thousand serious moves." And the
[43:07] reason I'm I'm bringing this up, James,
[43:09] is because I feel like you're what
[43:12] you're saying about reconnect with the
[43:14] earth and your body and aliveness. It's
[43:17] like if we don't, we get hooked on this
[43:20] in this mentality that we're striving to
[43:23] get somewhere else that we have a
[43:25] thousand serious moves and it cuts us
[43:28] off from just the tenderness that here
[43:30] we are, you know, we're together, we're,
[43:33] you know, alive beings and we're waking
[43:35] up together. So, um, I feel like again
[43:39] when you talk about intentionality, it's
[43:41] so important because it's not just in
[43:45] our own kind of private dharma practice.
[43:47] It's going against the currents that are
[43:50] really, really strong to keep us in a
[43:52] small fear-based and separate place. And
[43:56] I want to ask you to talk a little more
[43:59] about relationship because
[44:02] in your writing, in your programs, in
[44:06] your life, you so much uh lean in on the
[44:10] importance of relationships to keep us
[44:13] spacious and open and happy.
[44:17] >> Yeah. Well, um there's the most
[44:20] important relationship is the one in
[44:22] here, but if that's the only one
[44:27] that is fulfilling for you, uh you're
[44:30] you're missing out on
[44:32] on the real joy of connection
[44:36] um and connection
[44:38] with life, connection with nature, and
[44:41] connection, heart-to-heart connection.
[44:44] It's kind of mysterious how
[44:48] we can open each other's hearts and uh
[44:52] you know just just being there you can
[44:55] just kind of be in a funky mood or or
[44:58] bored or whatever and somebody comes
[45:01] into your space who
[45:04] there's that kind of um meeting on the
[45:08] same frequency or or wavelength and
[45:11] there's
[45:12] magic that happens where
[45:16] each individual
[45:18] separate being is kind of going through
[45:20] their their their life, their world, and
[45:24] then boom. Oh, you're in here, in there.
[45:28] I'm in here. Oh, so nice to know you.
[45:31] And it's like all of a sudden we can
[45:35] make each other come alive just by
[45:40] smiling and loving and um and listening
[45:45] and being and being
[45:49] being together in being where you don't
[45:52] have to prove anything or be anything
[45:56] other than you are than just yourself.
[45:58] And I always find it's kind of magical
[46:00] how we can awaken that in each other
[46:05] and then awaken it in others. So my main
[46:09] practice maybe you've you probably heard
[46:12] me say this countless times. Uh I take
[46:15] Neim Karoli Baba's
[46:18] um instructions to heart which I have
[46:21] for many many years. um you just love
[46:28] >> love everyone serve everyone remember
[46:30] dharma but for me it's for me it's um my
[46:34] practice and there's one page and be
[46:36] here now that's like the my key
[46:40] instruction I have two pages one is um
[46:44] the way it works
[46:47] you just love until you and the beloved
[46:50] become one that's my aspiration Uh but
[46:54] that's also
[46:56] the turnaround in my life was going from
[47:00] what do they think of me to oh hi I wish
[47:05] you well. And it's amazing that it
[47:09] works. The more people can feel that
[47:12] from you, the more they relax and you
[47:15] can actually bring it out of them.
[47:18] That's pretty magical that you have the
[47:21] power to bring that out. and then maybe
[47:26] encourage them to do the same and bring
[47:28] it out in everyone they know. So that's
[47:32] what really makes us come alive in a
[47:34] whole other way. Um and I'll mention the
[47:37] other page since it just came out of my
[47:39] mouth. It's very simple. It's uh Shiva's
[47:42] dance of life and there's
[47:46] savings accounts and insurance and and
[47:48] dancing and job and responsibility and
[47:51] and Shiva's dance of life and it says do
[47:54] you do it from or do you do it from ah
[47:59] do you carry it around like a heavy load
[48:01] or do you surf through it all? So, we
[48:06] have a choice and really to to move from
[48:10] that place of
[48:13] trusting life and and just letting your
[48:17] the love that you've been gifted with uh
[48:19] just find itself in others and um and
[48:24] keeping on rippling it out.
[48:29] So, this is a bit of uh I'm going to
[48:32] just kind of link this into something
[48:33] else a bit because we're talking about
[48:37] the power of loving and how that just
[48:41] creates this inc that creates joy, the
[48:44] joy of belonging. And here we are, we're
[48:47] in a time of severed belonging. And
[48:50] there is genocide, there is political
[48:53] division, there is climate disruption,
[48:56] there is huge suffering. And so some
[48:59] people feel guilty talking about kind of
[49:02] the individual level and enhancing their
[49:07] joy and well-being. And I guess so what
[49:10] I'm asking is what do you say to
[49:12] somebody who says, "How can I let myself
[49:14] be happy when so many are suffering?"
[49:17] What do you say,
[49:18] >> Barry? Uh it's a key question that comes
[49:21] up a whole lot especially with intention
[49:23] and can I dare let myself be happy with
[49:26] so much suffering.
[49:28] We don't need more people who are
[49:30] depressed
[49:32] to as the solution as as understandable
[49:37] as that is and fear and despair and
[49:40] helplessness and depression. I've I've
[49:43] gone through that cycles of that over
[49:46] the years many times like uh but
[49:52] the way I see it we we need more people
[49:56] to see the goodness in life. uh my
[50:00] friend Lou Leonard who was I think you
[50:03] know he was the climate manager a
[50:05] climate uh director for World Wildlife
[50:08] Fund and when I first got in and now
[50:10] he's he was the founder of Warner
[50:12] Sanango which I co-founder uh which I
[50:15] highly recommend to anybody who's
[50:17] interested in in checking out climate
[50:20] and and uh wise response and I said Lou
[50:24] I'm getting it this is many years ago
[50:27] we're in trouble and what can I do I'm
[50:30] just sharing the dharma and teaching
[50:32] about awakening joy. And he looked and
[50:35] he said, "Joy might be the one of the
[50:38] most important things we need to
[50:39] remember
[50:41] because otherwise you're just living in
[50:44] gloom and doom. And the more you
[50:51] can have well-being for yourself, the
[50:53] more you love life,
[50:56] the more you you protect what you love.
[50:59] >> [snorts]
[50:59] >> And if you throw in the towel and say,
[51:02] you know, what's the point? We're we're
[51:03] doomed. Well, that's one more person
[51:06] that's thrown in the towel. But the more
[51:09] you say, I love life. I want to do
[51:13] something
[51:15] with that love and construction uh
[51:18] construct um well-being or create
[51:22] well-being. people want to join that
[51:24] party and they they say, "Yeah, me too.
[51:29] I love life." And so I think it's a
[51:34] one of the greatest gifts to find our
[51:36] own love of life so we can um care for
[51:41] it and we can uh as I'm thinking of
[51:45] Joanna Macy who I'm sure most people
[51:47] know who I was fortunate enough to uh
[51:51] call a friend of of many years and she
[51:53] said um I'm I'm so it's so good to be
[51:58] alive now. We're here to
[52:02] to honor the earth and and see how
[52:07] creative and how beautiful she she is.
[52:10] We're here to link arms together and do
[52:13] something fantastic in a time of great
[52:16] need.
[52:18] What a different way than, oh, what's
[52:20] the point? Yeah, we're here to do
[52:23] something fantastic. We We are our own
[52:26] superheroes.
[52:28] not doing it alone but doing it together
[52:31] and um it it gives life meaning. So the
[52:35] more you can come from that love the
[52:37] more you awaken it in others especially
[52:40] loving life and the nonhuman as well as
[52:46] the human all of life in this beautiful
[52:48] planet. So I I see it as a a subversive
[52:52] act to just uh keep on loving and
[52:56] sharing your love and saying it's good
[52:59] to be alive. Let's let's do this
[53:02] together.
[53:03] >> It is a sub subversive act. I love that
[53:06] language. Um there there's a really
[53:09] famous quote from Rebecca Snit. She says
[53:12] joy doesn't betray but it sustains
[53:15] activism. which I think is really part
[53:18] of what you're saying. And and she says,
[53:20] "When you face a politics that aspires
[53:23] to make you fearful, alienated, and
[53:25] isolated, joy is a fine initial act of
[53:29] insurrection."
[53:30] >> Oh,
[53:32] >> yeah. It's good. It's good.
[53:33] >> That That's it. Yeah.
[53:35] >> Yeah. And you're And what you're saying
[53:37] is just so true that if you think of
[53:40] what is the way of engaging that's most
[53:44] going to be healing for the world, it's
[53:45] going to come from love. It's going to
[53:47] come from a love for this world. And if
[53:49] we want the resilience to keep on
[53:52] serving, we have to be nourished by
[53:56] feeling that love. Um, some of you might
[53:59] know that uh
[54:02] this is Mary Oliver wrote there's a
[54:05] whole um documentary on her right now
[54:07] and it's called Saved by the Beauty of
[54:09] the World.
[54:11] >> I just saw it by the way.
[54:13] >> Did you? Oh, good. Oh, good.
[54:15] Yeah,
[54:16] >> the title alone saved by the beauty of
[54:19] the world that let this beauty and love
[54:22] in this world inspire us and so that out
[54:26] of cherishing the world we act.
[54:29] >> So um I wanted to bring this bring this
[54:31] one in because I I think guilt is
[54:34] happens a lot. I mean, we're we get
[54:37] guilty, we get paralyzed and so on. And
[54:40] and the response is really go ahead and
[54:43] nourish what you love. Do what you love,
[54:47] >> connect with others, and do together
[54:48] what you love because that'll
[54:50] re-energize for the sake of your heart
[54:53] in the world. So,
[54:55] >> yeah,
[54:56] >> you reminded me of uh Andrew Harvey says
[55:00] um follow your heartbreak
[55:02] >> and then and then move in that direction
[55:06] and put all of that caring in a way that
[55:09] that eases that that's calling you. Um
[55:13] so, it's loving and letting yourself be
[55:16] touched. And there's one other piece
[55:18] that for me is so so essential and
[55:22] that's the the bigger bigger picture
[55:25] that can keep your heart from completely
[55:27] breaking.
[55:29] And that's
[55:31] equinimity is about seeing more than a a
[55:36] narrow band of time. And the way I see
[55:39] it, impermanence is not only about loss.
[55:43] It's about
[55:46] infinite creativity
[55:48] and that
[55:50] things change means however bad things
[55:54] get
[55:56] the pendulum swings
[55:58] and it's all part of the dance instead
[56:01] of thinking ah [groaning] how do we get
[56:04] to this? Oh, we're here to do something
[56:07] fantastic in a time of great need and
[56:10] that's what can compel us, but not to
[56:14] uh come to any conclusions about how we
[56:17] know things are going to be. We don't
[56:20] know. And yeah, there's going to there
[56:23] is suffering and there's going to be
[56:24] more suffering. and the human species,
[56:28] you know, might have been a good
[56:30] experiment at one point, but if we're
[56:33] doing what we can and inviting others,
[56:37] um, sooner or later, everyone's going to
[56:39] wake up. And I figure the more
[56:42] conscious,
[56:44] the less suffering. The sooner the less
[56:47] suffering. And even if it doesn't save
[56:50] the world, I've done something good. But
[56:53] things change. and letting go of my
[56:56] conclusion of how I know how this is all
[56:58] going to turn out and just do my part
[57:00] for love.
[57:03] >> Well, you know, one of the things I
[57:05] wanted to talk about because we've both
[57:07] been in this for a lot of decades is
[57:10] what we've noticed in our through our
[57:13] own process of aging. Like, you know,
[57:16] have we gotten happier? And what is it
[57:18] about the aging itself? because there's
[57:21] a lot of research that says you know
[57:23] people do get happier as you know
[57:26] they're not so hitched on the highs and
[57:29] on getting somewhere and more pleasure
[57:31] from ordinary moments but I think one of
[57:35] the things that's really key in that is
[57:38] that the more you go through life the
[57:41] more you sense the reality of
[57:42] impermanence these bodies go these mind
[57:45] goes so you just start accepting this is
[57:48] real this is the reality and That
[57:50] acceptance
[57:52] opens up this space. It's almost like
[57:55] the future gets smaller, presence gets
[57:57] larger. And by that I mean, and we're
[58:00] I'm talking about that kind of
[58:01] perspective you're talking about that
[58:02] things are going to happen. And what
[58:04] matters is how much we can be here in
[58:08] this moment and offer our heart to it.
[58:11] And um one of the things I thought I'd
[58:14] share that I did you read the snow
[58:16] leopard?
[58:18] No, I didn't. I I've heard it's an
[58:20] amazing book, but
[58:22] >> this is just a brief This is all about
[58:24] joy and it's a brief one that I just
[58:26] thought I'd share. So
[58:27] >> Oh, good.
[58:28] >> Peter Mat's visiting this elderly llama
[58:31] who's got this crippling arthritis and
[58:33] he lives in this isolated region of
[58:36] Tibet and he's wondering what that's
[58:38] like for him knowing that he's never
[58:40] going to leave again for the rest of his
[58:41] life. And so the translator asks this
[58:44] llama, "What's it like for you?" And
[58:47] here's what Peter writes. He says, "This
[58:49] holy man of great directness and
[58:51] simplicity, big white teeth shining,
[58:54] laughs out loud in an infectious way at
[58:56] the question and indicating his twisted
[58:58] legs without a trace of self-pity or
[59:01] bitterness as if they belong to all of
[59:04] us. He casts his arms wide to the sky
[59:07] and the snow mountains, the high sun,
[59:09] the dancing sheep, and cries," "Of
[59:11] course I'm happy. It's wonderful,
[59:14] especially when I have no choice.
[59:19] >> So, [clears throat] here we are and we
[59:21] don't know what's going to happen. I
[59:23] mean, just the way you said it, we don't
[59:24] know if humanity is going to do itself
[59:26] in and all the all our kin with us. We
[59:29] don't know what's going to happen. But
[59:32] if we can open to the changes and accept
[59:36] the changes and then from that presence
[59:39] just act from our heart. Just act from
[59:43] our heart. Just open our arms and say of
[59:45] course I'm h, you know, of course this
[59:47] moment's here. [laughter] There's so
[59:49] much freedom and it helps others too. So
[59:52] I just wanted to share that because I'm
[59:53] finding that in my life and wanted to
[59:56] hear more personally from you.
[59:58] >> Yeah. aging it's um you can either fight
[1:00:03] it
[1:00:05] [laughter]
[1:00:06] >> you know I don't want to be in
[1:00:08] resistance to reality reality wins you
[1:00:11] can fight it or you can say oh what am I
[1:00:15] learning from this
[1:00:16] >> and the the it it is this really
[1:00:20] interesting way the game is set up that
[1:00:24] youth I can do anything and um and you
[1:00:29] have to learn a whole lot of lessons
[1:00:31] that you can't do anything s everything
[1:00:34] sooner or later. And along with it's
[1:00:38] just such a mysterious
[1:00:40] game board that we're on that as the as
[1:00:44] the vitality
[1:00:47] um diminishes over time in your body,
[1:00:52] if you're fortunate enough to be able to
[1:00:55] hold it, the wisdom and the love just
[1:00:58] grows and grows and grows. M
[1:01:01] >> so you know h well when I think about
[1:01:05] how I was in my 20s and I and I hit my
[1:01:10] head saying I can't believe I did that.
[1:01:13] Oh I was having so much fun short-term
[1:01:16] fun and and [snorts] a whole lot of mind
[1:01:19] moments after to to reflect what was I
[1:01:22] thinking. Uh I'll trade
[1:01:27] wisdom and diminished capacities and
[1:01:31] seeing oh yeah impermanence is real. Um
[1:01:35] this can be uh the the richest time of
[1:01:39] one's life. So that's that's the way I
[1:01:43] want to go into it. And I think also
[1:01:48] encourage as many people as I can to
[1:01:51] reclaim elderhood instead of putting
[1:01:55] putting
[1:01:57] older people in uh you know away so we
[1:02:01] don't see them and oh I hope they'll you
[1:02:03] know we'll take care. But oh there's so
[1:02:06] much wisdom in there that we can we can
[1:02:10] learn from and tap into when we respect
[1:02:14] the elders who have made that that
[1:02:17] journey for us what we can learn.
[1:02:21] >> So I'm
[1:02:23] in my better moments that's how I that's
[1:02:26] how I'm approaching this time in my
[1:02:28] life.
[1:02:30] Well, about your are in your better
[1:02:33] moments. Maybe as a way of ending um you
[1:02:38] know, if someone listening is in some
[1:02:40] way saying, "Okay, I've been pretty
[1:02:42] locked in in grimness and preoccupied
[1:02:45] with uh the next thousand moves of
[1:02:48] serious problem solving and so on. I've
[1:02:51] lost touch with joy."
[1:02:53] What would you invite them to do to
[1:02:57] actually do in this moment? Like like
[1:02:59] what's a way just to begin maybe you
[1:03:02] know you can give us a little guided
[1:03:03] something just to incline us
[1:03:06] >> into into gladness.
[1:03:08] >> I I think um the the most probably that
[1:03:13] I've seen the most direct way to open up
[1:03:16] to joy and well-being is gratitude. Mhm.
[1:03:20] >> And then with the basic principle, this
[1:03:23] is the principle that you know that I
[1:03:27] that I came to understand in the
[1:03:29] Buddhist teaching. It's one thing to
[1:03:33] have a a grateful thought or have a have
[1:03:37] a an inspiring thought. Um
[1:03:41] but it's a whole other to really let it
[1:03:44] land in your body. It's one thing to
[1:03:46] know, "Oh, that's such a beautiful
[1:03:48] sunset." Uh, and what's for dinner?
[1:03:52] Or, "Oh, that's such a beautiful
[1:03:55] sunset."
[1:03:57] And then really let it be experienced.
[1:04:01] It's the difference between,
[1:04:04] "Oh, feeling good right now, and this is
[1:04:08] what it feels like to feel good." where
[1:04:11] you turn mindfulness
[1:04:15] right on that feeling of well-being. And
[1:04:18] this is in one of the discourses of the
[1:04:21] Buddha that popped out at me. He said,
[1:04:24] "Notice the gladness connected with the
[1:04:27] wholesome." Uh, I call it an equipment
[1:04:30] of mind to overcome all ill will and
[1:04:34] hostility. One gains inspiration and
[1:04:37] truth in the meaning. one delights in
[1:04:41] feeling the gladness and that became the
[1:04:45] key to just cultivating wholesome states
[1:04:49] and then being very present for them and
[1:04:52] letting them land. So here's a a quick
[1:04:56] exercise I can uh I often uh find
[1:05:00] helpful. Uh so I invite everyone who's
[1:05:04] watching or listening uh maybe to go
[1:05:08] inside and think of some blessing in
[1:05:11] your life, [snorts]
[1:05:14] someone
[1:05:17] or some circumstance
[1:05:21] that you feel really grateful for,
[1:05:23] grateful to. Maybe
[1:05:26] have an image in your in your mind of
[1:05:30] that blessing.
[1:05:36] And as you call up that image,
[1:05:41] just give a a silent thank you right
[1:05:44] from your heart to that person or to
[1:05:47] life.
[1:05:49] Thank you.
[1:05:56] And then just relax in that feeling of
[1:05:58] gratitude.
[1:06:01] Feel it in your body.
[1:06:05] Thank you so much.
[1:06:11] Feel the landscape of gratitude.
[1:06:19] Savor it. marinated.
[1:06:25] [sighs]
[1:06:27] Let it awaken everything good inside.
[1:06:38] Okay. And when you like, you can come on
[1:06:40] back.
[1:06:43] I suggest doing that um
[1:06:47] several times a day.
[1:06:50] Whenever you are feeling any kind of a
[1:06:52] wholesome state, just notice it. You
[1:06:56] don't have to make a big show. Excuse
[1:06:58] me, I'm doing my my my joy homework. Uh
[1:07:01] but just to turn inward and say, "Oh,
[1:07:05] this is a good moment of life. Let me be
[1:07:08] here for it."
[1:07:10] And everybody will feel
[1:07:13] feel that internal blessing and
[1:07:17] catch it from you.
[1:07:24] Thank you my friend.
[1:07:27] A real heartfelt thank you.
[1:07:30] >> Thank you my friend.
[1:07:33] >> So good to
[1:07:35] have you as a dear friend and may it be
[1:07:38] for the benefit of all.
[1:07:40] >> Yeah. And thank you all who are with us
[1:07:43] right now. I I know there's so much uh
[1:07:47] may we all touch that capacity for
[1:07:50] happiness and freedom.
[1:07:53] >> Okay. Namaste. Blessings.
[1:07:56] >> Namaste.
[1:08:04] [music]
[1:08:10] >> [music]