Transcript
[0:01] susan piger beautiful buddhist teacher
[0:03] we're going to talk today about
[0:06] the questions you should ask yourself
[0:08] before you say
[0:09] i do or before you say
[0:13] i wanna and i also wanna talk to susan
[0:15] about the qualities she's got four
[0:17] qualities
[0:19] for
[0:21] supporting your relationship
[0:23] i'll get susan in
[0:26] let me see she's joined
[0:31] give me a second to deal with technology
[0:39] there we go
[0:40] here we are
[0:44] you can find susan on
[0:46] ig at
[0:48] susan.piper p-i-v-e-r
[0:52] and susan's here hello friend
[0:56] this is already a massive test because
[0:58] here we are together
[1:00] yeah here we are together
[1:02] for the last hour but
[1:06] um
[1:07] how are you feeling about
[1:09] re-launch of hard questions and all
[1:13] these conversations you must be having
[1:14] about like lasting love and love
[1:17] resistance and love longing and like
[1:20] it's a lot of love talk right now
[1:22] a lot of love talk yeah thanks for
[1:24] asking it's i
[1:27] am endlessly fascinated
[1:29] by my own
[1:31] punyness when it comes to
[1:35] i love you yeah
[1:36] my own like
[1:38] limitations and obstacles and so i i
[1:40] never seem to get tired of talking about
[1:42] it
[1:43] and it was also i wrote this book
[1:46] 20 years ago
[1:47] yeah
[1:48] so it was really really interesting and
[1:50] i'm sure you would find something
[1:51] similar if you had a chance to really
[1:53] revisit something you wrote a long time
[1:55] ago who was that person
[1:57] and how
[1:59] and
[2:00] and
[2:01] the person who is thinking of getting
[2:03] married is different than the person has
[2:05] now been married for 20 years so
[2:10] you know i first came across your work
[2:12] because of the 100 questions the hard
[2:14] questions yeah really yeah yeah and
[2:17] there was something um
[2:19] shambhala did something on you and i
[2:21] just like who is this woman who's
[2:23] resistant to marriage because at the
[2:25] time i just like all like
[2:27] mary mary
[2:28] and
[2:29] um
[2:32] and it had me pause
[2:34] have me pause
[2:36] what do you think what's the nature of
[2:37] that pause
[2:39] um
[2:41] did i jump to am i a jumper
[2:44] what's the
[2:46] what's the
[2:49] origin wouldn't be that well maybe
[2:50] origin is the right word what's the
[2:52] origin the impulse
[2:54] for my desire
[2:56] an important word especially in a
[2:57] buddhist context my desire for
[2:59] commitment
[3:01] um
[3:03] yeah
[3:04] and you know did you know we haven't
[3:05] talked in a while you know i'm like
[3:07] newly in love
[3:09] so these questions now like when i got
[3:13] yeah like i i'm with my person
[3:16] and
[3:17] when i got the
[3:19] what's that
[3:21] that's fantastic it's fantastic it's
[3:23] only fantastic um when i got the book
[3:27] you know i'm reading it with new eyes so
[3:29] i read it in one sitting
[3:31] and i just and we just went for a walk
[3:33] this morning i was like yeah i'm gonna
[3:34] do this
[3:35] interview with this beautiful buddhist
[3:36] teacher friend susan and the hard
[3:38] questions and we started asking each
[3:40] other some hard questions yeah
[3:42] uh
[3:44] how was it
[3:45] uh well he's deep and he's open and
[3:49] he said he used the term at our age and
[3:52] i was like can we just not use the term
[3:54] at rh
[3:57] let's not
[3:58] i feel like
[4:00] but just
[4:00] you know assumptions you make until you
[4:03] hit
[4:04] the bumpy
[4:06] moment
[4:07] and how to like
[4:08] not make assumptions anymore and
[4:12] it's good to ask questions every day
[4:15] every day yeah
[4:16] yeah
[4:18] i i found that
[4:21] you know what we argue about or what i
[4:23] argued about in past relationships or
[4:24] felt disconnected by was not
[4:27] necessarily anything to do with love or
[4:29] sex
[4:30] which is
[4:31] when you're in a love affair that's
[4:33] that's what you're doing
[4:34] but there were questions about our life
[4:37] those were the things that tended to
[4:39] create
[4:41] arguments obstacles divisions and the
[4:44] things that we don't necessarily talk
[4:45] about
[4:47] nor should we
[4:48] you know when we're
[4:49] loved but
[4:51] the thing that made me write this book
[4:53] with was
[4:55] just because this insight just because
[4:57] you love someone
[4:59] does not mean you will
[5:01] be able to create a life together that
[5:03] you both love
[5:04] that seemed really so why didn't anyone
[5:07] tell me that because you think you love
[5:09] someone
[5:11] it's just great to be together
[5:14] but then there's the whole life that you
[5:16] make and home and children perhaps or
[5:19] spirituality and those are the things
[5:21] that that i realize tend to trip us up
[5:24] so that's
[5:26] so how do you know how does one know do
[5:29] you have to is this about excavation and
[5:32] determining if this is like we can build
[5:34] a life together quality stuff
[5:37] um
[5:38] yeah that's that's the question
[5:40] um
[5:42] well you don't know
[5:43] that that's that's the buddhist part
[5:47] you don't know there's never gonna be
[5:50] yes or no it's always going to be yes
[5:52] and no
[5:54] so
[5:56] however
[6:00] [Music]
[6:01] if you don't love the purple
[6:04] [Music]
[6:08] [Applause]
[6:11] there's just some
[6:14] i want to be with you
[6:15] that
[6:17] if that's not there then it doesn't
[6:18] matter
[6:19] and
[6:21] then
[6:22] for most people for some people it's
[6:23] fine to just have all the
[6:25] exterior stuff in locked in and there's
[6:27] nothing wrong with that
[6:29] um
[6:31] but it's also really important to say i
[6:34] think that
[6:35] you don't have to agree on any of the
[6:36] answers
[6:38] you can have totally different that's
[6:40] fine
[6:41] it's instructive
[6:43] what's not okay or what seems to be
[6:46] troubling is
[6:47] when you don't know how this person
[6:49] would answer and you're not willing to
[6:51] hear
[6:52] because the hope for the hard questions
[6:54] is not get a contract and sign it and
[6:57] everything's figured out but know each
[7:00] other
[7:01] just feel who this person is and
[7:06] and see if they will listen to your
[7:08] heart
[7:10] do you think it's core to being
[7:13] human
[7:15] that we want to be understood and
[7:19] and is that um
[7:24] where does the desire to be understood
[7:27] fit in
[7:29] enlightenment it's a very interesting
[7:31] question
[7:32] yeah understood i would say it is human
[7:35] and i i
[7:38] mean
[7:39] feeling seen
[7:42] is
[7:44] the ultimate intimacy
[7:46] whether you like what you see or you
[7:48] don't like what you see
[7:50] but being known
[7:52] and
[7:53] in the buddhist view as i was taught now
[7:55] i've been a buddhist practitioner as
[7:57] long as i've been married more than 20
[7:58] years in both cases
[8:01] there's this sense that in this samsaric
[8:04] realm
[8:05] for lack of a better way of saying it
[8:08] it's always going to miss a little bit
[8:10] it's always going to miss a little bit
[8:13] and
[8:14] now what
[8:16] now what
[8:17] now what to do
[8:19] in light of
[8:20] the inevitable missing
[8:24] and then it's never i'm sorry this is
[8:26] horrible news but it's never going to
[8:28] quite work out
[8:30] but that doesn't mean that your heart
[8:32] can't shatter and heal and rebuild and
[8:36] expand and burst with love
[8:38] absolutely not so it always works out
[8:41] from that perspective it always works
[8:43] out but the interesting thing about love
[8:46] is
[8:48] and i wrote a book about heartbreak too
[8:49] the wisdom of a broken heart
[8:51] and i've written four noble truths of
[8:53] love lots and lots of love things
[8:54] heartbreak things and
[8:56] my conclusion this is just my
[8:58] observation is that love and heartbreak
[9:00] are not different
[9:01] they are not different
[9:03] heartbreak is just love unbound from an
[9:05] object
[9:07] and unbound it just
[9:09] is uncontainable
[9:13] with it when there's an object
[9:16] it gives you some containment some form
[9:18] some space for your heart to express
[9:20] itself but the amount of love in your
[9:23] heart is absolutely boundless
[9:25] that's my observation
[9:27] what do you think
[9:29] i think
[9:31] well when you say heartbreak i want to
[9:33] say heart
[9:35] broken open
[9:38] i understand what you're saying about
[9:39] the object
[9:42] i've struggled
[9:44] my
[9:45] whole life with the object and
[9:49] a non-object
[9:52] and it's been so
[9:54] interesting as an understatement
[9:57] to
[9:59] be in love in that
[10:01] at the beginning of it so i fell in love
[10:04] and i fell apart
[10:06] and every
[10:08] psychologist in my life
[10:11] some of whom were on retainer and other
[10:12] who were just friends just said oh
[10:14] you're right on time this is what
[10:15] happens if you are playing deep
[10:18] you get you finally can exhale i've been
[10:20] just keeping myself together with cosmic
[10:22] chicken wire for decades
[10:25] and now you can there's a level of
[10:27] exhaling that happens
[10:29] and also i think my ego needed to
[10:32] shatter like i you know in the early
[10:35] weeks i'm saying this isn't me oh my i
[10:37] want you to know the real me and this
[10:38] isn't me i'm happy i'm like i'm feeling
[10:40] anxious and clingy and this health stuff
[10:43] came up and i also know but i just knew
[10:46] this on a
[10:48] kind of intellectual research level it's
[10:50] like
[10:50] relationships get tested because love
[10:53] dissolves the ego and i'm just like and
[10:55] i actually
[10:57] to my credit
[10:58] i could feel gratitude in the agony in
[11:01] the beginning because i just like
[11:03] this is our test
[11:04] there might be more but i'm so glad to
[11:07] get the test out of the way within the
[11:09] first few months where i'm just a basket
[11:11] case
[11:13] and my struggle back to the point about
[11:16] object and no object was
[11:19] i felt tremendous
[11:22] guilt almost this is a catholic hangover
[11:25] this is a new age hangover too the dark
[11:27] side of a new age of
[11:30] having an object for my love
[11:33] and that
[11:35] i thought oh maybe i should just go back
[11:37] to like considering if i should be a nun
[11:40] you know
[11:41] and
[11:43] i would say my man's name as well i
[11:45] would say well
[11:47] is it okay to like
[11:50] start i'm starting to like really want
[11:52] this and need this
[11:54] and he'd say you know he's all deep and
[11:57] wise and lovely and he'd say
[11:59] this is what people do danielle
[12:02] you'd be like oh
[12:03] right this is what people do and then
[12:05] now i'm at a place i kind of made it
[12:07] through that portal of
[12:09] this is god now
[12:12] this is life now
[12:14] and this very human
[12:16] experience has helped me be like
[12:19] god is everywhere
[12:21] and i'm learning to love
[12:24] myself and my humanity and
[12:27] spirit and all of it more through this
[12:29] little container this portal
[12:32] called a romantic relationship it's
[12:34] great
[12:36] and i'm in
[12:41] but what do you do as a buddhist in love
[12:43] you know
[12:44] to to be like
[12:46] non-attachment but i'm i love being
[12:49] attached it's great building a life
[12:51] together is great
[12:54] here's what i say to non-attachment
[12:59] is it okay can i say that
[13:02] that's the best news ever
[13:05] right
[13:07] people that are constantly telling you
[13:09] shouldn't be attached well this is what
[13:10] i would say to them but the thing is
[13:14] and this is really important i think
[13:16] they're attached to non-attachment
[13:19] so it's automatically a bust
[13:22] you can be attached to non-attachment
[13:24] and that's what is often counseled in
[13:26] new age circles or just
[13:29] generally speaking the interpretation of
[13:30] the buddhist teaching on non-attachment
[13:32] is don't do it well that's the opposite
[13:36] that that's not accurate
[13:38] attachment there is no problem with
[13:39] attachment
[13:41] it's a problem to be attached to
[13:43] non-attachment because you're just
[13:45] spinning your wheels
[13:46] but when you are attached when you are
[13:48] in love that is not that's fabulous
[13:50] that's not a problem
[13:52] and so you feel it you notice it you
[13:54] discover
[13:56] the the the
[13:58] uh claustrophobia and liberation of
[14:01] attack and you ride it and you stay with
[14:04] it and you observe it and you feel it
[14:07] and it arises
[14:09] it abides
[14:10] and it dissolves
[14:12] in moments in lifetimes in periods of
[14:14] time
[14:15] and non-attachment is going with a rise
[14:19] by dissolve without trying to stick in
[14:22] one place
[14:23] it's in a continual state of flow
[14:26] is actually more accurate way of
[14:28] describing what is meant by
[14:29] non-attachment so anyone who tells you
[14:31] you're so attached you shouldn't be so
[14:32] attached
[14:34] like you are exhibiting attachment right
[14:36] now and attached to my responses to
[14:38] things
[14:39] that's especially not okay
[14:41] and you know my experience like
[14:44] i'm finding out
[14:47] not new awareness but
[14:50] the ego loves to hide in spirituality
[14:53] and it's the best place really if you
[14:56] want to hide in plain sight
[14:58] and the whole non-attachment
[15:00] conversation is like i'm really like
[15:03] this is a trip
[15:04] for the ego to come and just create more
[15:07] division
[15:08] and more
[15:09] like why would you resist love this is
[15:11] the call this is you know
[15:14] why would you resist love whether it's a
[15:16] significant other and you're going to
[15:18] make vows
[15:20] or it's
[15:21] the dude on the corner and you're
[15:22] realizing that could be me that is me
[15:26] why would you why resist
[15:29] love
[15:30] but let's not we have to talk about
[15:32] clinging though okay
[15:34] um
[15:36] can you can you speak to
[15:38] [Music]
[15:39] the cling
[15:41] the shadow side of attachment the hungry
[15:43] ghost
[15:45] the
[15:48] how this manifests for me is i want this
[15:49] to stay this way all the time
[15:51] and that's just a recipe for disaster
[15:55] it is
[15:56] because it's not possible and it's
[15:59] so
[16:00] a couple things on clinging uh and
[16:03] hungry ghost is a great way of
[16:04] describing it hungry ghost in the
[16:06] buddhist world is there's six realms of
[16:08] existence the human realm the jealous
[16:10] god realm
[16:12] the hell realm various realms and the
[16:14] hungry ghost realm and we all visit all
[16:17] the realms all the time
[16:19] uh you know throughout the day
[16:21] throughout even a moment you could visit
[16:23] any of the realms although we live in
[16:24] the human realm
[16:26] which is considered the most
[16:28] advantageous for achieving liberation as
[16:30] opposed to the god realm which sounds
[16:32] great anyway
[16:34] blah blah blah but
[16:35] the buddha appears in each realm by the
[16:37] way and in the god realm buddha just
[16:40] doesn't say anything just plays an
[16:42] instrument
[16:43] because you can't get through to people
[16:44] in the god realm
[16:46] because they're perfect so i'm not going
[16:48] to wake up anyway
[16:50] the hungry ghosts are people with giant
[16:53] uh
[16:54] mouths
[16:56] and really tiny necks
[16:58] so they're hungry all the time but
[17:01] enough nourishment so that is a great
[17:03] way of describing clinginess in one
[17:06] level so i when i get clingy
[17:09] i
[17:11] say to my husband i'm very clingy right
[17:14] now
[17:15] and i'm clinging to you and i literally
[17:16] just cleaned him
[17:19] and so far luckily he's not
[17:21] that is not
[17:22] he's very sweet he's like okay go ahead
[17:24] cling on cling on
[17:26] and so i just do
[17:28] and
[17:29] then
[17:30] that's cool uh luckily
[17:34] and if you can
[17:37] experience your own clinging as a desire
[17:41] for more love as an expression of your
[17:44] own loving heart
[17:45] as opposed to the way
[17:47] we're often encouraged think of it as
[17:49] neediness and not independent enough and
[17:50] not strong that's
[17:53] not useful
[17:54] but it's i'm awash
[17:57] in my wish for love
[17:59] and
[18:00] fear
[18:01] perhaps that
[18:03] you're gonna miss me like i'm gonna be
[18:05] here and you're just gonna not see me or
[18:08] understand me
[18:09] and i'm afraid right now so can you hear
[18:12] me in my fear and this and it's true
[18:15] with all all the hard questions not just
[18:17] this issue of clinging about which there
[18:19] are no hard questions
[18:21] it's all a path to not to more love this
[18:24] is my discovery
[18:25] but to more intimacy
[18:28] and those are different
[18:30] tell us about the difference yeah
[18:33] love is what you feel and
[18:36] the high and the beauty and it's real
[18:39] i'm not saying it's
[18:40] some illusion it's really real and it's
[18:43] as close to being transported to a god
[18:45] realm as any of us will ever get and
[18:47] it's
[18:48] heavenly truly and real i'll just say
[18:51] that again
[18:53] yay i hope we all visit that planet as
[18:54] many times as possible but then we come
[18:57] back here
[18:59] and there's still love there still can
[19:02] be romance but romance tends to
[19:04] dissipate
[19:06] not all the time but sort of in moments
[19:09] but intimacy has no end
[19:12] that's what i can commit to for a
[19:14] lifetime not love because love comes and
[19:17] goes
[19:17] but intimacy
[19:19] we're never going to get to the end of
[19:20] that of that how much do you know me
[19:23] how much can i know you how much am i
[19:25] willing to feel
[19:27] and take in and
[19:30] offer that
[19:31] there's no end to that so that we can
[19:33] make
[19:34] to do
[19:35] okay let's go here so
[19:39] i i believe that we are
[19:42] divine love so i choose the term divine
[19:44] love just to create a little distinction
[19:46] from love and the pop songs that are
[19:48] really just mentally programming us
[19:50] to be hurt
[19:51] and to hurt so let's just go for divine
[19:53] love okay divine love the stuff of
[19:57] creation the matter it's it's the fabric
[20:00] it's the space it's all the
[20:03] awl um
[20:06] let's put that in your theory of love
[20:08] and intimacy so i'm going to say divine
[20:10] loves everything
[20:12] intimacy
[20:13] is
[20:15] it's just the
[20:16] constant
[20:18] revealing the fur the unfurling
[20:21] of our awareness of divine love it's
[20:24] like you know i love rondas's term i am
[20:26] loving awareness i love the double
[20:29] entendre in that it's like i am loving
[20:31] awareness
[20:32] and also i am loving awareness itself
[20:37] so
[20:38] intimacy for me is intimacy is my
[20:40] favorite word right now i think it could
[20:43] not to cling
[20:45] but i might be writing that as my
[20:47] favorite term for the rest of my days
[20:50] but it's that constant i
[20:52] this is how i know i'm in love i want to
[20:55] know him
[20:57] and
[20:58] there's also something about
[21:02] i'm just loving the human realm
[21:05] more than i ever have
[21:07] and my first
[21:10] like big explosion of human realm was
[21:12] becoming
[21:14] a mother
[21:15] to my son and it's been amazing susan
[21:18] the similarities
[21:20] of loving my child and being
[21:23] romantically in love
[21:24] it's the same
[21:26] vibration
[21:28] of i want to know everything about you
[21:31] i'm as unconditional as i can possibly
[21:34] be in this moment lots of limitations
[21:36] and i can you know hit my my jerkness
[21:39] but
[21:40] um
[21:42] and
[21:43] honesty i was thinking about like in the
[21:45] hard questions the book you've got the
[21:47] four qualities that support
[21:49] relationships
[21:50] and i just thought this is so much like
[21:53] motherhood as well so
[21:55] honesty
[21:57] good manners compassion
[21:59] and courage
[22:02] can you
[22:03] run through honesty for us like these
[22:06] are
[22:06] words we might not always
[22:09] embody what does honesty really mean
[22:12] especially in the context of a
[22:13] relationship
[22:15] well yeah it doesn't mean just saying
[22:17] anything that pops into your head
[22:19] obviously that probably doesn't need
[22:20] saying but
[22:22] it means first knowing the truth here
[22:26] knowing the truth yourself
[22:28] that's the first do you know the truth
[22:30] of what's in your heart in this moment
[22:32] and this moment in this moment and do
[22:34] you know that you don't know
[22:38] that's
[22:39] what i mean by honesty
[22:40] do you know what's
[22:43] and if not
[22:45] now what do you
[22:46] blah blah try to
[22:48] use it out with yourself with your
[22:51] partner with a therapist or a friend or
[22:54] do you hold
[22:55] people are wired different ways i'm a
[22:57] holder i'm just gonna hold
[22:59] because i don't know
[23:00] i'm a blurter
[23:03] i'm a blurter partnered with a holder
[23:05] it's actually great yeah i'm a holder
[23:07] partner with a blurter
[23:09] there's a book there's your next book
[23:12] there's some there's a personality test
[23:14] in here we can monetize it it'll be
[23:15] great
[23:18] okay
[23:19] good manners
[23:21] he like good manners uh
[23:23] good manners here means thoughtfulness
[23:25] like
[23:26] do you are you thinking about this
[23:28] person
[23:29] you know
[23:31] duncan my husband is having some weird
[23:33] things at work right now so the good
[23:35] manners here is to inquire about that
[23:38] and to
[23:39] not lose track of that not that i would
[23:40] lose track of it but
[23:42] to think about what is his experience
[23:45] when he's
[23:46] at work and when he comes home what
[23:47] might he be
[23:49] feeling or wondering or
[23:51] checking in with him during the day and
[23:52] that's what i mean by good manners it
[23:54] means actually thinking about the other
[23:56] person tracking their experience and do
[24:00] not
[24:02] forming your life around it but having
[24:05] awareness
[24:06] of who they are and what they're going
[24:08] through and then as feels right to you
[24:11] making space and accommodations and
[24:14] gestures
[24:15] that show that you understand
[24:19] and not taking any of it personally if
[24:21] your needs aren't getting met
[24:24] you can take it personally i would say
[24:28] personally you can get that you can feel
[24:30] anything you want
[24:32] you just can't hold them responsible
[24:34] right right right yeah yeah
[24:37] compassion
[24:39] compassion talk to us about compassion
[24:41] yeah
[24:43] compassion is often conflated with being
[24:45] nice
[24:47] and it isn't
[24:49] it is not the same as being nice it's
[24:51] not being sweet it's not being a good
[24:53] person it's not any of that
[24:55] compassion is more
[24:57] similar to awake
[25:00] than nice
[25:01] but when you're awake
[25:03] you're actually paying attention
[25:06] and then you see what's happening around
[25:07] you and you feel within your heart
[25:09] what's happening with your partner with
[25:11] yourself and then what
[25:13] you do what arises in terms of words or
[25:16] gestures or non-words or non-gestures
[25:19] is in accord
[25:21] with what's real
[25:23] so compassion is much more about being
[25:25] awake
[25:27] and fearless because it takes
[25:29] fearlessness to be awake
[25:31] and just see what it is rather than what
[25:33] you hope is
[25:34] and then
[25:35] whether you get angry in response or say
[25:38] nothing or are the sweetest most loving
[25:40] kind person in the world that's
[25:42] compassion
[25:43] and it can include any
[25:45] state of mind or form of expression
[25:49] can we go on a side side
[25:51] track here for a second um
[25:54] what's your feeling your thoughts about
[25:57] the term just the term presence
[26:03] well
[26:04] it means at once everything
[26:08] and
[26:10] is
[26:10] like compassion in a sense
[26:14] of compassion being conflated with nice
[26:17] is conflated with something that isn't
[26:19] exactly present
[26:21] it's because once you're observing your
[26:23] presence you're not quite present
[26:26] so it's
[26:28] in the buddhist view
[26:29] is uh this is impossible for me to
[26:31] understand but i've been studying it and
[26:34] been taught this
[26:36] it's about living in some sort of
[26:38] recognition of non-dual
[26:41] reality yes yeah once you're observing
[26:45] you're out of it
[26:46] i don't know how to do it
[26:49] what are your thoughts
[26:50] very similar and this is a new
[26:54] it's a fairly recent revelation it's
[26:56] like to even say like i'm present is
[26:59] resisting what i am like really it's
[27:03] presence is the declaration of i am this
[27:05] right now
[27:07] if i'm distracted i am this right now if
[27:10] i'm
[27:11] gazing i am this right now like
[27:13] you know and i
[27:15] especially in the relationship
[27:18] space
[27:19] you know the the self-help lexicon
[27:22] um
[27:24] it used to be my trip and this is a lot
[27:27] of this is very kind of pop
[27:30] culture of like
[27:32] making a demand that my partner be
[27:34] present
[27:35] you're not being present with me and
[27:37] that entitles me
[27:39] to be offended
[27:41] and that entitles me to make a demand
[27:44] that you be more present
[27:46] you're not tired you need i know you're
[27:48] tired but you need to bring it because
[27:50] you know king queen and you need to
[27:52] bring it just like
[27:53] no this is what is
[27:56] long day at work
[27:58] very conversational deep eye gazing
[28:01] distracted this is it
[28:04] and i can have my feelings about what is
[28:08] but as soon as i get into that judgment
[28:10] of you're not present because you're not
[28:12] checking off this list for me then i'm
[28:15] not present i'm not even honest enough
[28:17] in that moment to say
[28:19] oh this is how i feel this you know
[28:23] and it just is a block to love demanding
[28:25] someone's so-called presence
[28:27] is actually really
[28:29] divisive and i think it's the opposite
[28:31] of compassion i mean that's why
[28:34] i'm asking in that that context because
[28:36] compassion feels like i mean here's the
[28:38] irony right with words compassion feels
[28:41] like
[28:42] true presence awakeness
[28:45] yes yeah
[28:46] it is and i will add to what you're
[28:49] saying it hurts when someone's not
[28:51] present to us
[28:52] yeah it it genuinely does and you're
[28:55] you're entitled to be heard
[28:58] you're not entitled to be
[29:00] in my opinion uh
[29:03] blaming
[29:06] the uh
[29:08] what's the word i'm looking for
[29:09] truthful
[29:11] it hurt it hurts one i feel like you're
[29:14] not paying attention to me and that that
[29:15] kind of hurts me
[29:17] that's totally fair i think
[29:19] it it's it otherwise it gets into a
[29:22] little bit of a gaming
[29:24] i shouldn't do this i should do that and
[29:26] you're probably absolutely right one of
[29:28] the primary forms of courage is
[29:30] am i willing to see you
[29:33] rather than who i think you should be
[29:36] rather than who i wish you were right
[29:38] now
[29:39] can i
[29:40] open to you
[29:43] and the closer we get the longer the
[29:44] relationship is and the more intense it
[29:46] is and the more is on the line and the
[29:48] more
[29:49] our ego or our
[29:51] portals open up and we
[29:53] feel unsteady
[29:55] the less likely we are to actually see
[29:57] the other person
[29:59] and the more
[30:00] we tend to
[30:02] lean on i need you to be this person or
[30:04] i need you to be that person which is we
[30:07] all have that
[30:09] but the courage is
[30:11] to let that go
[30:13] i want to make one very important caveat
[30:15] unless there's abuse or addiction
[30:16] involved
[30:18] then that's a whole different situation
[30:19] but otherwise am i willing am i brave
[30:22] enough
[30:23] to be with you
[30:24] to see you
[30:26] and to experience all that means to me
[30:28] rather than hold you
[30:30] to this form
[30:32] that i thought i wished you
[30:35] were that's such a beautiful twist on
[30:37] things i mean when i hear courage in
[30:39] relationships mostly
[30:41] i'm self-referencing i think do i have
[30:44] the courage to show up do i have the
[30:45] courage to be expressive
[30:47] um
[30:49] is this you know this is about beautiful
[30:52] the more beautiful
[30:54] interestingly and i'm sure this will not
[30:55] be the case forever if you look at the
[30:57] books about love and relationships
[30:59] 99
[31:00] are about how to
[31:02] get love
[31:04] yeah
[31:05] almost zero percent are about how to
[31:07] give love
[31:08] how to be loving and that makes sense
[31:10] because especially as women there's been
[31:12] a lot of emphasis put on you should do
[31:14] this and you should do that but most of
[31:15] the books are about how to attract it
[31:17] how to keep it how to make it come back
[31:18] how to
[31:20] show up in it some of them are really
[31:21] good some of them aren't
[31:23] but there are very few books that are
[31:25] non-religious
[31:26] that are about how to give love and i
[31:28] think for you and i
[31:31] we want to be loved but there's also i
[31:33] just notice in your work
[31:35] all the time around the clock
[31:37] a real emphasis on how do i give love
[31:39] and i just really appreciate you for
[31:41] that
[31:43] thank you
[31:44] this is
[31:45] you know this is a core to a course in
[31:47] miracles really
[31:49] and
[31:50] uh a course in miracles talks about
[31:52] belonging for a special relationship and
[31:55] that
[31:56] being in relationship with someone who
[31:58] you perceive to be unique and wonderful
[32:00] and special all these things is really
[32:02] the ego saying because you're all you're
[32:04] great then i must be great i mean i'm
[32:07] putting that in kind of in a pop way
[32:09] and
[32:10] it really emphasizes
[32:13] well i think i'll put this in my own
[32:15] words really like the disillusion with
[32:17] the ego through being love
[32:19] and my experience is that
[32:22] the more i just
[32:25] let it come through that virtue of
[32:28] divine love and focus on giving
[32:31] just focus on giving like it all works
[32:34] out you get you get you get what you
[32:37] want the legit aspiration for
[32:40] reciprocity for love but just like just
[32:43] give just forgive just give them a break
[32:45] just
[32:46] be the one who shows up
[32:48] and it all there's just so much more
[32:51] flow
[32:52] and i slip all the time and i move into
[32:55] a quiet oh this is i'm quietly demanding
[33:00] it's very sulky you know
[33:03] um because you're not fitting this
[33:06] and
[33:08] i take i'm taking more responsibility on
[33:10] getting out of that
[33:13] responsibility without punishment that's
[33:15] tricky
[33:16] i'm like oh i've i've been i've been so
[33:19] unevolved in this moment just like no i
[33:21] got quiet got sulky
[33:25] how can i love you right now
[33:27] and
[33:28] you expand
[33:30] you feel
[33:33] powerful loving that's the thing the
[33:36] dalai lama said if you want to be
[33:38] unhappy think about yourself which is a
[33:40] dangerous thing to say especially to
[33:42] women
[33:43] please think about yourself nonetheless
[33:44] he said
[33:45] that if you want to be unhappy think
[33:46] about yourself if you want to be happy
[33:48] think about others and he wasn't saying
[33:50] that oh you should be a goody two shoes
[33:52] who's saying that because
[33:54] it is empowering to think of others they
[33:56] come from a position of mass
[33:58] and agency and beneficence and when you
[34:01] only think about yourself which we all
[34:02] must do
[34:04] we shrink and it's very poverty
[34:09] so some balance
[34:10] is really important
[34:11] [Music]
[34:13] i agree with you
[34:15] what is the dollar law
[34:17] so does the dot the other the dl
[34:26] in all the conversations you've had
[34:28] recently let's say in recent time
[34:31] about love
[34:33] about the new book the hard questions
[34:35] about even
[34:37] the affordable truths of love yeah
[34:41] what are people most curious about i
[34:43] because i'm interested in like what's
[34:44] the gestalt right now what's the trend
[34:47] around love with a small love and love
[34:50] with a true reality love
[34:53] well that's a very interesting question
[34:57] and what comes to my mind is
[35:01] some
[35:02] wish to feel safe
[35:07] and that makes complete sense
[35:11] however
[35:12] there is nothing less safe than love
[35:15] [Music]
[35:18] buddhist punctuation point
[35:22] i mean when most of us say we want love
[35:24] that's true but what we also mean is i
[35:27] want to be safe
[35:29] i don't want to be scared i don't want
[35:30] to be threatened i want to
[35:33] cocoon in some way and
[35:36] and there can be vast moments and
[35:37] periods of time where that is true
[35:40] but love is always putting something on
[35:41] the line
[35:42] and there's nothing so we often try to
[35:45] make weird bargains with each other well
[35:47] don't do this and i won't do that and
[35:49] when i say you should be this way then
[35:50] what i expect is that great that's fine
[35:53] but
[35:55] we end up making
[35:56] more and more detailed contracts with
[35:58] each other
[35:59] and
[36:00] like to not scare each other
[36:02] and i don't know what that's called but
[36:05] i don't think it's called love
[36:07] so
[36:08] love is
[36:09] never safe
[36:11] i have to say this or i'll lose my card
[36:13] carrying my buddhist card that's in my
[36:15] wallet
[36:17] all relationships will end
[36:20] whether through
[36:21] various ordinary uh means
[36:24] or because we perish
[36:27] so i can you be on that dot
[36:32] i will love you knowing that this will
[36:35] end
[36:36] can you be on that dot without over
[36:38] s shmooshing your face in it
[36:41] and without ignoring it
[36:43] to me that is the courage also that is
[36:46] necessary and it makes everything
[36:48] precious
[36:49] and alive
[36:50] and terri and terrifying and
[36:53] beautiful
[36:55] beyond any conventional view we might
[36:57] have
[36:59] to hold the end in mind
[37:01] if
[37:02] lightly
[37:04] and not ironically that's where you you
[37:07] hit that strand of eternity too like
[37:11] it's it's unchanging
[37:14] it is lasting and poof
[37:18] and then poof
[37:20] and then poof
[37:24] oh
[37:25] thank you for your work in the world you
[37:27] are helping people
[37:30] get real
[37:33] i that's
[37:34] the biggest compliment and i really
[37:36] appreciate that and a hundred dittos
[37:40] and i love talking with you it's just
[37:43] it's expansive and delightful and
[37:45] hurtful and and just really appreciate
[37:50] thanks
[37:51] here's my prayer i hope i pray that
[37:55] the hard questions lead people to
[37:58] their gentle nature
[38:00] because so much love happens there yeah
[38:03] yeah uh deep respect i love you susan
[38:06] thank you so much thank you
[38:14] [Music]
[38:41] you