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Inspiration

When Anxiety Is Rational, Nota Bug in Your Brain

Ten Percent Happier
Ten Percent Happier
Sep 18, 2026
6 min de lecture
À regarder · 7

In the middle of a quiet meditation session, Josh Johnson's mind spirals—not into the usual scattered thoughts about what's for dinner, but into the architecture of global economic collapse. The gold standard is gone. The dollar is backed by nothing but fear and the collective agreement not to think too hard about it. If everyone stops believing, the whole machine fails. He sits there, eyes closed, trying to breathe, while his thoughts cascade through currency systems and the gun pointed at the heads of every nation at once. Then he stops meditating. "Maybe I'll start again one day," he says, "but I stopped meditating because it was bad for my mental health."

The bit is funny—the absurdity of a mind that won't cooperate, that trades meditation for economic dread. But Johnson isn't joking about the deeper point underneath it. Sometimes those emotions are just right. Sometimes the anxiety isn't a cognitive distortion that can be breathed away. Sometimes your mind is accurately reading the world, and the problem isn't your perception—it's the world itself.

This distinction matters because it reframes the entire conversation around meditation, acceptance, and what it means to be awake in a time that has plenty of legitimate reasons to feel unsettled. Johnson argues that the standard meditation narrative—that distraction is the enemy, that a calm mind is the goal, that you simply notice the anxiety and return to the breath—misses something crucial: meditation doesn't change external reality. Donald Trump is still in the White House. The political machinery still turns. The economic system still runs on collective hope and historical momentum. Breathing does not alter these facts.

Lecture · 4 sections

The Difference Between Acceptance and Resignation

This is where acceptance—a word Johnson wrestles with—becomes essential but easily misunderstood. A friend once pushed back on his use of "acceptance," hearing in it a kind of surrender: I accept this, therefore I do nothing. But Johnson meant something different. To address a problem, you first have to accept that it exists. You have to stop pretending it will work itself out or that caring is optional. Acceptance is clear seeing. It's the prerequisite for action, not the replacement for it.

"If it's a problem, then it's a problem," Johnson says. You can't move from that foundation unless you're standing on it. The confusion arises because acceptance in spiritual language often gets tangled with passivity—with the notion that if you meditate enough, you'll transcend the desire to change things. But acceptance and action aren't opposed. You accept that there is a bank heist, that the zip ties are on your wrists, and then—precisely because you see clearly—you can think about what to do next. Breathing won't change your location, but it might change your capacity to think through the escape.

This is what meditation can actually do: regulate your nervous system enough that you can think clearly. Not enough that you stop caring. Not enough that you mistake contentment for settling. Johnson has seen the trap up close—the spiritual bypass where people use contemplative practice as permission to check out from a world that's asking for their engagement.

Why Anxiety May Be America's Default Mode

There's something structurally American about the anxiety that meditation teachers often treat as a personal malfunction. Johnson points to school-shooter drills as the clearest example: children are taught to hide from an active threat as a regular part of their educational calendar. This isn't individual neurosis. This is collective trauma encoded in routine. The anxiety isn't overblown; it's proportional. And a meditation practice that treats it as something to transcend rather than something to understand and act upon misses the point entirely.

The news cycle compounds this. There's a pattern Johnson calls "TACO"—Trump says X, and we all brace for catastrophe, and then he doesn't do it. The cycle repeats. Over time, this creates a strange exhaustion: your nervous system stays in a state of readiness that never fully resolves. Meditation can help you bear that state without collapsing into panic, but it can't erase the fundamental unreliability of the situation that created it.

The privilege of anxiety worth noting: some people can turn off the news and forget about the threat. Others can't. There's a difference between the anxiety you can set down and the anxiety that's woven into your existence. Johnson is aware of this gap—the difference between a war you can pause and a war you're always fighting.

Practical Anchoring When Things Are Hard

When Johnson hits a rough patch, his method is straightforward: "Will I care about this a year from now?" It's a filter that sorts the genuinely consequential from the noise that feels urgent but isn't. Not to dismiss everything as unimportant, but to distinguish between problems that require action and anxieties that are mostly about projection into a future that may never arrive.

His grounding comes from elsewhere, too—not from meditation alone, but from what he describes as earnest parents and real faith. His reference point isn't a sanitized spirituality that separates the Old and New Testaments into opposing philosophies. It's an integrated faith that holds together both the law and the grace, both the severity of real consequences and the possibility of transformation. In a Jewish and Christian tradition, you don't get to pick the comfortable parts; you have to sit with the whole story.

The Cost of Love, the Challenge of Forgiveness

Johnson circles back to a Basquiat quote that haunts him—something about how it's easier to throw a rock than to love someone through addiction. The contrast is stark and true. It's easier to judge, to turn away, to say someone is beyond help or beyond love. It's harder to stay present with someone in the grip of something that's destroying them and to love them anyway. Not to enable them. Not to pretend the problem doesn't exist. But to love them through it.

This connects back to acceptance in its deepest form: accepting that someone else is struggling, that they may not get better, that your love won't fix them, and choosing to stay present anyway. This is where meditation meets real moral life. The calm mind isn't the goal; the capacity to love clearly, without resentment or desperation, is.

Johnson's work ethic—three years of new material posted weekly, the relentless practice of comedy—reflects the same principle. You don't wait until you're perfect to show up. You show up imperfectly, repeatedly, and that repeated showing up is where the work actually happens. Meditation is the same way. Not a technology for achieving enlightenment, but a practice for training attention so you can be present to the life that's actually in front of you: the people you love, the problems that need solving, the moments that won't come again.

Transcript

[0:04] Hey everybody, welcome to the 10%

[0:05] Happier podcast. I'm your host Dan

[0:07] Harris. Today we have a fascinating,

[0:09] rangy, and super interesting

[0:12] conversation with the comedian Josh

[0:13] Johnson. We talk about uh how uh wild

[0:17] the mind is. We talk about uh dealing

[0:20] with uh the anxiety of uh the news

[0:24] cycle, the difference between acceptance

[0:27] and resignation. his extraordinary work

[0:30] ethic and uh the kind of healthy

[0:32] obsession he has with comedy. And um

[0:36] stay tuned because after I say thank

[0:38] you, we actually have a long and really

[0:40] interesting discussion about AI and his

[0:43] very powerful uh negative feelings about

[0:46] AI. Just a little bit more on Josh

[0:48] before we dive in here. He is uh one of

[0:51] uh the uh hosts and correspondents on

[0:55] the Daily Show on Comedy Central. He's

[0:57] got a comedy special, an excellent one,

[0:59] on HBO Max called Symphony. And on his

[1:02] YouTube channel, he, and this gets to

[1:05] his work ethic, he has for three years

[1:08] posted a new hour of comedy every week.

[1:12] Take that in. A new hour of comedy every

[1:15] week for three years. Josh Johnson, uh,

[1:18] a rising star in the comedy world.

[1:20] Really interesting, really smart. Josh

[1:22] Johnson, welcome to the show.

[1:23] >> How's it going?

[1:24] >> Going great. Nice to see you. Oh, nice

[1:26] to see you.

[1:27] >> I'm a fan.

[1:28] >> Thanks, man. Night. Nice to meet you.

[1:30] >> I want to play you a little clip just to

[1:32] get us started. This is a clip of you.

[1:34] >> Oh, well. Uh-oh. One of the main things

[1:36] they talk about in meditation is that

[1:39] you should not, you cannot beat yourself

[1:42] up when you get distracted from

[1:44] meditation and your mind starts to

[1:45] wander. You just notice your mind

[1:47] wandering. Bring yourself back to the

[1:49] point of not wandering and then hold on

[1:52] to that moment for as long as you can.

[1:55] Right? And [clears throat] then you'll

[1:56] start to think about stuff, but just

[1:57] come back. You'll be fine. And

[1:59] eventually, you'll get so good at not

[2:01] wandering that you'll really have like a

[2:04] calm mind. And it won't be every day. It

[2:06] won't be all the time, but when you put

[2:08] your intention to it, you'll have a calm

[2:09] mind. So, I sat down. I'm going to

[2:11] meditate. I'm okay. I tried to like

[2:15] crisscross applesauce my legs. And I was

[2:18] realizing I was like, my right going to

[2:20] fall asleep. I don't know why I'm not as

[2:22] flexible as I should be.

[2:25] And so I was just sitting put my feet

[2:28] together and everything and I was like,

[2:30] "Okay,

[2:35] just breathe. Just breathe. Just think

[2:37] about your breath. Hold on to the ideas

[2:40] of your breath. Just think about how

[2:42] you're breathing. That's how you stay

[2:43] present. Every breath is important.

[2:45] Being present is important. Don't think

[2:48] about anything else. don't think about

[2:51] how we left the gold standard. And so

[2:53] now there's really nothing but but fear

[2:55] and anxiety backing up the dollar and

[2:57] the sort of like weighted debt system

[2:59] that we live in because it really is the

[3:02] only thing holding us together. It's

[3:04] like the expectation that it can't

[3:06] possibly fall apart because if it ever

[3:08] fell apart, it would fall apart for

[3:09] everyone. It's basically like our

[3:11] economy, our government is holding a gun

[3:13] to the heads of us and every other

[3:15] nation at the same time. And if we and

[3:18] if we at all stop this thing, if we ever

[3:20] stop this machine from running, maybe we

[3:22] could like release ourselves from the

[3:24] idea of this like economic like if we're

[3:27] being honest, like an economic

[3:28] enslavement to the dollar and to the

[3:30] ideas behind the dollar and we could end

[3:32] up in a better world, a world where like

[3:35] maybe you could actually work with some

[3:37] sort of meritocracy for your both your

[3:39] efforts and for your work. And and if if

[3:41] we got there, if we if we were able to

[3:43] do that, I wandered. I wandered that.

[3:46] Okay. All right. All right. And so I

[3:51] went ahead and I stopped meditating.

[3:57] I stopped meditating. Maybe I'll start

[4:00] again one day, but I stopped meditating

[4:03] because uh uh it was bad for my mental

[4:06] health.

[4:08] At least the way I was doing it. Cuz I

[4:10] was doing it wrong. It was mostly just

[4:12] me crashing out with my eyes closed

[4:15] in a quiet room with a drippy faucet.

[4:19] >> So I I play that because I'm just

[4:21] curious, is that your actual experience

[4:22] with meditation? Have you ever gone back

[4:24] to it since uh your gold standard uh

[4:28] jag?

[4:29] >> Yeah. No, I I try to go back to it. But

[4:31] the thing this this is my other thing

[4:33] about meditation, anxiety, even being

[4:36] depressed sometimes like that is that

[4:38] like this is not a popular thing to say,

[4:40] but sometimes those emotions are just

[4:42] like right.

[4:44] >> Mhm.

[4:44] >> And that is a hard thing to sit with. Do

[4:47] you mean like sometimes you're anxious

[4:48] and it's like all right, maybe you're

[4:50] anxious because you're overthinking or

[4:52] maybe you're actually anxious because

[4:53] there are several reasons to actually be

[4:56] anxious right now. And so it's not as if

[4:58] I don't think meditation will help me,

[5:01] but it's more that even in the getting

[5:04] better at meditating and even in staying

[5:07] within uh some sort of calmness, it it

[5:10] changes your approach to like a present

[5:12] situation, it doesn't actually change

[5:13] the present situation. Do you know what

[5:15] I mean? Like if you are in a bank heist

[5:18] and you're sitting there and you've got

[5:20] and you've got the zip ties on your

[5:22] wrist, we can breathe. [laughter] It's

[5:24] not going to change where you are. And

[5:26] so, and I don't want it to sound like

[5:28] it's frivolous by not changing where you

[5:31] are, because it would be much better to

[5:33] be able to be calm during a bank heist

[5:35] than to be freaking out and having a

[5:39] what some would call an appropriate

[5:40] amount of anxiety, but it doesn't help

[5:42] you and then you give yourself a panic

[5:43] attack. Like, obviously, that is not

[5:45] ideal either. But I think that as I get

[5:48] older, the thing that I'm trying to um

[5:51] come to terms with whether it's therapy

[5:53] or it's meditation or it's just like an

[5:55] overall outlook on life is that there

[5:57] are certain things you can control which

[5:59] is yourself. But then the all the other

[6:02] things that you cannot control will

[6:03] still exist no matter your approach to

[6:05] them. And so so that is where my

[6:09] meditation's at. It's it's actually why

[6:12] I want to get better at meditating is so

[6:14] that I can hold on to my own attention

[6:17] longer and so that I can like address

[6:19] problems from a place of real conscious

[6:23] uh intention. I think that's spot on. My

[6:27] the way it the way I experience it with

[6:30] meditation therapy, whatever modality

[6:32] designed to regulate your nervous

[6:34] system, it doesn't change external

[6:36] reality. Donald Trump is still in the

[6:38] White House.

[6:39] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[6:40] >> And how do I want to be in the face of

[6:42] this?

[6:42] >> Mhm.

[6:43] >> How do I want to be maximally effective

[6:46] and

[6:48] being calm? Not anesthetized, but calm

[6:51] enough so that I can think clearly.

[6:53] That's where these tools come in handy.

[6:55] Does that make sense?

[6:56] >> That that does make sense. And it's

[6:58] actually I got in an interesting I won't

[7:01] say argument cuz it didn't rise to the

[7:02] level but we we definitely my friend and

[7:05] I were having some conversation where

[7:07] maybe I wasn't expressing myself clearly

[7:09] enough or maybe they didn't like my

[7:11] explanation but I was talking to them

[7:13] about the concept of like acceptance in

[7:15] the face of a problem and and I was

[7:18] saying that in order to address a

[7:21] problem you have to accept the problem

[7:23] and and by that I just mean you have to

[7:24] accept that there is a problem. you you

[7:27] can't be like, "Oh, but also I don't

[7:29] care." Or, "Also, it'll work itself

[7:31] out." It's like, if it's a problem, then

[7:32] it's a problem. And I think that they

[7:34] were hung up on the I don't even know if

[7:36] semantics is the right word for it, but

[7:38] they got hung up on the wording of

[7:40] accepting the problem as in I just will

[7:44] take it or I'll just like sit with it.

[7:46] And it's like, no, it's just addressing

[7:48] it. and and acceptance was maybe um not

[7:51] as good of a word as a addressing, but I

[7:53] was trying to address through a real um

[7:58] contemplation over this is how it is.

[8:01] >> And if you don't like that Donald

[8:03] Trump's in the White House, what are we

[8:04] going to do about that? That there is an

[8:06] acceptance about that fact. And then

[8:09] what you do from it here on out is like

[8:12] it can you can only get to that step by

[8:14] accepting what the problem is.

[8:15] >> Yes. I don't think surprise you that I'm

[8:18] you're right and your friend's wrong.

[8:20] I'm I'm I'm being uh I'm being harsh.

[8:22] But I do agree with you.

[8:24] >> Yeah.

[8:24] >> Acceptance is different from passivity

[8:26] or resignation. Acceptance is just not

[8:28] being at war with reality. Like, okay,

[8:30] yes, there are problems. I can see them

[8:33] clearly,

[8:34] >> then I act.

[8:35] >> So, it's acceptance and then engagement.

[8:38] Um and which is exactly what I think I

[8:40] was hearing from you.

[8:41] >> Yes. cuz they were like, "Oh, well," and

[8:43] we weren't even talking about Trump

[8:44] being in office, but they were like,

[8:45] "No, I don't accept that thing." And I'm

[8:47] like, "Yes, you don't accept it in that

[8:49] you don't want it to be happening, but

[8:51] like and then every once in a while

[8:52] you'll have a conversation with somebody

[8:53] that makes you feel like you don't have

[8:55] a grasp on your own language. This is my

[8:57] native language. This is how I've been

[9:00] speaking since I was a little kid." But

[9:01] for whatever reason, we're having our

[9:04] wires crossed cuz then I was like,

[9:06] >> "Yes, I also don't accept it as in I

[9:08] will do nothing about it." Yes.

[9:10] >> But we need to move together in the

[9:12] reality that this that this problem

[9:14] exists.

[9:14] >> Acceptance is a tricky word because

[9:16] people hear it as resignation or

[9:18] passivity. Maybe another way to say it

[9:20] would be just clear seeing.

[9:22] >> Yes. If you had been there, we probably

[9:24] would have even had the argument.

[9:26] >> You know what? You just need my phone

[9:28] number the next time this this happens.

[9:30] If you could have stepped in and been

[9:32] like, "He means clear seeing."

[9:34] [laughter]

[9:34] You can clearly see the problem and now

[9:37] we're going to do something about it

[9:39] together.

[9:40] >> You mentioned early on anxiety and

[9:44] depression. Are these things with which

[9:47] you actively wrestle?

[9:49] >> I have. Yes, for sure. For sure. I think

[9:52] uh sort of the anxiousness I don't want

[9:55] to I don't want to speak for everyone

[9:57] which is what I'm actually about to do

[9:59] but I think that anxiousness is like a

[10:01] sort of resting state as a as as an

[10:05] American mindset. I think that if you

[10:07] live in the US, anxiousness kind of like

[10:10] comes with the territory and not even an

[10:12] anxiousness that is like intentionally

[10:15] imposed, but it is the the end result of

[10:19] a lot of thinking cuz what is a person

[10:21] supposed to do but be anxious in the

[10:23] face of this thing? So, you can have

[10:25] your um uh school shooting drills with

[10:29] kids and then be like, "All right, go to

[10:32] sixth period." But anyone who's paying

[10:34] attention will be like, "That was wild,

[10:37] right? That we all just practiced what

[10:39] to do in case one of us, the people

[10:42] here, decides to shoot all of us." And

[10:45] that's something that can be pretty

[10:46] anxietyinducing and for good reason. And

[10:48] so I think that there is a lot of

[10:52] structure around the things that should

[10:56] help I guess like quell some of the

[10:58] anxiousness, but it actually doesn't

[11:00] because it's like you acting like this

[11:02] drill is normal while politicians go

[11:05] back and forth around if prayer still

[11:08] works and and while you actually have to

[11:11] live in the reality where you may need

[11:13] to remember everything that is in this

[11:15] drill. that that's something that the

[11:18] people that aren't at your school may

[11:19] not have anxiousness around, but you in

[11:21] the actual situation, I'm sure are very

[11:24] anxious. And so I think that there's

[11:27] there's things like that. And then

[11:29] there's just the general um I think

[11:32] misunderstanding of what it means to be

[11:35] content. I think in the American

[11:38] mindset, contentment is like a loss.

[11:41] It's resigning yourself to settling.

[11:44] There's always more and you're supposed

[11:45] to go get that more.

[11:46] >> It's acceptance.

[11:47] >> And yes, it's acceptance. And then you

[11:49] put yourself in a position where through

[11:52] constantly chasing what is it is not

[11:55] better is just different. It is

[11:58] anxietyinducing.

[11:59] Um and then I think that you know

[12:01] without being a a psychiatrist or

[12:04] psychologist myself, I think that enough

[12:06] anxiety will depress you. I think there

[12:09] are people that obviously have their

[12:11] actual clinical depression. There are

[12:13] people who go through rough patches in

[12:15] their life, but I also think that with

[12:17] enough stress, you can easily become

[12:19] depressed.

[12:20] >> I've certainly had that experience

[12:22] recently when you're in a rough patch or

[12:24] when you're dealing with whatever your

[12:26] you know baseline level of anxiety or

[12:29] propensity for depression. Um what

[12:32] what's your go-to?

[12:34] >> I try to remember a couple things. One

[12:37] is that everything ends uh including me.

[12:40] So there's only so much time that I have

[12:43] and there's only so much um that I have

[12:46] to do with that time in the way of

[12:48] energy, in the way of you know like

[12:50] resources, everything like that. And is

[12:52] this something and it genuinely does

[12:54] work a lot of the time. Is this

[12:55] something I will care about a year from

[12:57] now? Some things are worth your time and

[13:00] attention that you would only care about

[13:02] for 6 months. Like, you know, if if

[13:04] someone disrespects you or if someone um

[13:07] has a problem with you and you didn't

[13:09] see that coming and it whatever hurts

[13:11] your feelings or um changed the dynamic

[13:15] of a relationship, it's like look, you

[13:17] may not care a year from now, but right

[13:18] now you care and that's okay. So, I

[13:20] don't chalk everything up to will this

[13:22] kill me? If not, I don't care. I more

[13:25] just try to be honest about how I I feel

[13:29] about it and what is ego and what is

[13:31] actually a problem. There are some times

[13:33] where something happens and it's your

[13:36] own ego making a bigger deal out of it

[13:38] than it is. And then there's things that

[13:41] maybe you try to make you try to stop it

[13:43] from being a big deal because you just

[13:44] don't want to address it. And so I I

[13:47] just try to file things uh and I think

[13:49] as I get older I'm getting better at

[13:51] that as filing things in a quick enough

[13:54] time on how I really feel about them and

[13:57] that has helped sideline a lot of what

[14:00] could have been anxiety or could have

[14:01] depressed me.

[14:02] >> Sounds like perspective is helpful for

[14:05] you putting it in.

[14:06] >> That is a better way to say everything I

[14:08] said. That is actually I should have you

[14:10] around all the time. That [laughter] was

[14:12] you. You saved me like 25 seconds.

[14:17] I could have just said that and then we

[14:19] could we could be in a different part of

[14:20] the interview right now.

[14:21] >> We we wouldn't have much of an interview

[14:23] if your answers were all just one word.

[14:25] >> Yes, but like I could I could be less

[14:29] winded. [laughter]

[14:31] >> I like your current level of windedness.

[14:33] Just keep that same energy going.

[14:35] >> I appreciate it. There are so many times

[14:37] in my life, and I suspect this is true

[14:39] for you, where you just need a little

[14:40] reset, some little hack to get you out

[14:43] of a thought spiral or to help you fall

[14:46] back to sleep when you wake up at 3:00

[14:47] in the morning or help you recover from

[14:49] some sort of temper tantrum. You know

[14:51] what I'm talking about. Which brings me

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[17:04] What about specifically handling news

[17:08] anxiety? Because you as one of uh the

[17:12] rotating hosts of the Daily Show, which

[17:14] everybody should watch, you have to

[17:16] follow the news. I mean, there's there

[17:18] is no escaping it for you. I can go days

[17:21] even as a I I used to be an anchor man,

[17:23] but I'm not anymore. or I could go days

[17:24] without checking the the New York Times.

[17:26] You you don't have that choice. Um

[17:29] because you need to be on you need to be

[17:31] writing these excellent monologues that

[17:34] we see you deliver. How do you manage

[17:36] that?

[17:36] >> Well, first of all, yes, please watch

[17:38] the Daily Show on Comedy Central at

[17:40] 11:00 Central time. [laughter]

[17:44] Uh but I think that for me it's uh

[17:47] recognizing that a lot of news is uh

[17:53] cyclical of a of a bigger thing. And so

[17:56] I think that there are almost like um

[17:59] almost like orbits. There are several

[18:01] cycles happening at at any given time.

[18:04] You'll see with with Trump for example

[18:06] that he will be in a cycle with this

[18:08] war. he'll be in a cycle of we're gonna

[18:11] we're going to do this thing and then we

[18:13] don't do it and then we're going to do

[18:15] it and then we don't do it. And so I

[18:17] think that to get too caught up in every

[18:22] word he says as if his word is

[18:24] believable could put you in a state of

[18:27] anxiety that might be unnecessary

[18:29] because those things he he had us with

[18:31] the destroy a whole civilization. Right.

[18:34] >> That one had everybody and I don't just

[18:35] think this is a New York thing. I think

[18:37] if you had been walking around in lots

[18:39] of places in the country, the the the

[18:42] weekend that that went out and how it

[18:45] loomed over people and then we were

[18:46] like, are we about to be like Germans?

[18:50] Like, are we going to look back on this

[18:51] time in history as we as a country

[18:54] destroyed a whole other country even

[18:57] though it was not the will of, you know,

[19:01] the the people at large right now? There

[19:03] are some people at best that don't care

[19:05] that we're at war, but I don't know too

[19:07] many people that are gung-ho for this uh

[19:10] for this war.

[19:10] >> Even some of his supporters.

[19:12] >> Even some of his supporters. And so so

[19:14] that loomed over us and then it didn't

[19:16] happen. And then he hinted at it again

[19:19] and it had less juice this this time,

[19:21] but we still didn't want it to happen.

[19:23] And then it didn't happen. Meanwhile,

[19:25] don't get me wrong, there are strikes.

[19:27] There are people dying. like this is

[19:28] still very serious, but this idea that

[19:30] we're just going to nuke them or

[19:32] something like that that that keeps not

[19:35] happening. So that's one cycle of Trump

[19:37] says a thing and then he doesn't do that

[19:39] thing. And you could almost reliably

[19:41] sometimes depending on the story, count

[19:43] on him not doing the thing he said he

[19:45] was going to do. If it's a promise, he

[19:46] won't do it. Like if it if he promised

[19:48] you something, you could take it to the

[19:50] bank that he won't be at the bank.

[19:51] >> Yeah. It's the taco thing. Cup always

[19:53] chickens out. And and then there are

[19:55] bigger cycles that are even outside of

[19:59] of Trump. And one is that war as

[20:03] especially war as other countries

[20:05] understand it is always happening. We

[20:08] are in a particular and privileged

[20:10] position that when we are at war, we

[20:12] don't have to feel it. We are the

[20:13] equivalent of going out with your

[20:15] friends to a bar and let's say it's six

[20:18] of you and then five of those friends

[20:20] get in a fight across the bar and you're

[20:22] able to just sip your drink. Because

[20:24] when we are at war, we don't feel it. We

[20:27] don't see it. We see as much of it as we

[20:30] would like to see. And if we change the

[20:32] channel, then all of a sudden the war is

[20:33] not happening. And so I think that there

[20:35] are some things that seem like undue

[20:40] anxiety

[20:41] um on our part which are really just us

[20:45] having the human experience that a lot

[20:47] of other people have that don't have the

[20:49] resources we have, the money we have or

[20:51] the position on this part of the planet

[20:53] that we have. And so I think that there

[20:55] is a level of stress that is uh just

[21:00] human and I try to accept the fact that

[21:04] yes I do this for my job but I could

[21:07] turn it off and a lot of people don't

[21:09] have that luxury. A lot of people are

[21:11] living it to the point where it can't be

[21:13] turned off. It's their life.

[21:14] >> Okay. So I heard two things in there I

[21:15] just want to make sure I heard it

[21:16] correctly. One is again kind of

[21:18] perspective that you yes part of your

[21:21] job is you have to follow the news but

[21:23] you know that really if you didn't

[21:24] really feel like it you could not follow

[21:27] the news whereas many people in many

[21:30] parts of this country or or or more to

[21:33] your point in the world have no choice

[21:37] because the war is in their backyard.

[21:39] Yes. Uh, the second thing I heard you

[21:40] say is like you're not shooting for a no

[21:43] anxiety state, notwithstanding what

[21:45] influencers might be saying to you on

[21:47] Instagram. You're you accept that this

[21:49] is part of the human condition.

[21:51] >> Yes. Because the best example I can

[21:53] give, I have a lot of friends who are

[21:55] having kids, right? And there's

[21:57] something very noble and completely

[21:59] understandable about wanting to give

[22:01] your kid a better life than than you

[22:03] had. it it is um a driving force around

[22:06] like why some people work so hard is

[22:08] that they want to make sure that they

[22:09] provide in the ways that they were

[22:11] missing. Some people even say that the

[22:13] way that you parent is like trying to

[22:15] heal your own childhood, you know.

[22:19] But there are some people who are so

[22:23] okay or already come from so much

[22:26] privilege that to give their kid a

[22:28] better life would actually be to give

[22:31] their kid like a misunderstanding of

[22:34] what life is. It's like when you go on

[22:36] vacation, vacation isn't life. So if you

[22:38] are on a great vacation and then you

[22:40] know last day vacation, all right,

[22:41] you're a little bummed out that it's

[22:43] over, but you're ready to get back to

[22:44] work. You're rejuvenated and you're

[22:45] ready to go. If you expect life to be

[22:48] vacation, you're actually have a pretty

[22:50] terrible life. There are a lot of

[22:51] parents out there that are like trying

[22:53] to shield their child from every bad

[22:55] experience, trying to um make it so that

[22:58] they are able to get over these hurdles

[23:00] without realizing they're picking them

[23:02] up and putting them over the hurdle.

[23:03] They're not watching this child succeed

[23:05] for themselves. And so I think that all

[23:08] of the love and attention and effort

[23:10] that goes into that sort of thing is

[23:12] just a misplaced version of like some of

[23:16] the same things people do when they

[23:17] don't care. Because you'll find you'll

[23:19] find a kid who's never actually been

[23:21] told no or had to like fight for

[23:23] something or had to work for something

[23:25] themselves is actually somebody that

[23:27] nobody wants to be around. And so now

[23:29] you've actually given your kid a

[23:31] terrible life because they have

[23:32] everything. They have everything, but

[23:35] people don't really like them. They

[23:37] don't really have an appreciation for

[23:38] the things that they have. They might

[23:40] not have an appreciation for other

[23:41] people. I think it's very rare if

[23:43] something is just your exact lived

[23:45] experience for you to be able to step

[23:47] outside of that. Like you gain

[23:49] perspective from things changing. And so

[23:51] I I I look at anxiety the same way. It's

[23:54] like, yeah, life life has its its kicks.

[23:57] what whatever the thing is. It's like it

[24:01] the idea that I cannot be inconvenienced

[24:03] is is like it's so delusional. The idea

[24:07] that everyone has to like me. It's like

[24:09] just just because of the the sort of

[24:11] puzzle pieces of the makeup of our

[24:14] brains, we're not all going to like each

[24:15] other. And that's before politics.

[24:17] That's before all the other factors that

[24:19] people usually point to. I'm just saying

[24:21] like in in interpersonal

[24:24] um dealings, you'll have a person who

[24:26] just like whatever it is, maybe this

[24:28] person's too bubbly for them or maybe

[24:30] this person's too flat. It just rubs you

[24:32] the wrong way. The idea that everyone

[24:34] should like me, I should always get good

[24:36] feedback. I should never um have trouble

[24:40] with something is like that's just not

[24:43] life.

[24:44] >> You know, the question that's going

[24:45] through my head right now is I'm just

[24:46] sitting here across from you. You're

[24:47] you're a young guy. Were you 30

[24:49] something?

[24:50] >> Yes. Yes, I'm I'm definitely 30

[24:51] something. Specifically 36.

[24:54] >> 36. So to me young, you actually have

[24:57] quite a bit of innate wisdom and I'm

[25:00] trying to figure out like is that just

[25:01] something you were born with? Did you

[25:03] have really good parents? Have you had a

[25:04] really good therapist? You seem as I

[25:06] listen to you talk quite grounded and

[25:10] realistic and filled with perspective.

[25:12] >> That's very kind. I'm going to use this

[25:14] the next time that I'm in an argument.

[25:16] You got to clip this. I'mma play I'll

[25:18] play this exact thing. be like, "He said

[25:20] I was grounded." All right, I clearly

[25:23] must have a point.

[25:24] >> I do want to say to whoever you're

[25:25] fighting with, uh, I don't actually know

[25:27] you, so I could be

[25:29] >> That's fair.

[25:30] >> Completely tricking me.

[25:31] >> We will need to edit this part out.

[25:33] [laughter]

[25:35] >> Yeah.

[25:36] >> So, what's the answer? Where' you if if

[25:38] this is legit

[25:40] >> Uhhuh.

[25:40] >> where does it come from?

[25:41] >> I think that if I'm being honest, I have

[25:43] to say it's a little bit of everything.

[25:45] like I have um gone to therapy off and

[25:48] on. I'd like to think that

[25:52] while I couldn't always go to therapy as

[25:54] a as a means, you know, like when I was

[25:56] in Chicago, I was like broke and you

[25:59] know, I'm sure therapy would have been

[26:01] great, but I just couldn't afford it.

[26:03] And um I'd like to think that I go I

[26:07] have a I have a good insight on when I

[26:09] need to talk to someone and then I'm

[26:11] willing to uh but that isn't every week

[26:14] or every day and it's it's for whole

[26:17] portions of my life where I feel like

[26:19] you know I'm not internalizing things

[26:22] and I feel pretty good and then I have

[26:24] my support system my friends and family

[26:26] to talk to as well and and the the

[26:28] issues that I'm having I feel like they

[26:30] are equipped to give me insight. tight

[26:33] on. So, I think I'm good. And then

[26:34] whenever it's bigger than that or deeper

[26:36] than that, then I then I go. Um, as far

[26:40] as how I was raised, you know, I was

[26:42] very blessed to be uh raised by not just

[26:46] good people, but I think really really

[26:48] wise and earnest people. Um, people who

[26:53] you can you can take them at their word

[26:55] that they believe what they say they

[26:57] believe and and then I think a lot of

[27:00] things start from there. I think if I

[27:01] think if you are if you're not

[27:03] consistently lying to yourself uh about

[27:06] your beliefs, I think you're able to let

[27:09] that sort of branch out into the other

[27:12] things that into your actions and into

[27:14] other things that you do. Like not to go

[27:16] on too much of a tangent cuz I want to

[27:17] answer the rest of your question, but

[27:18] like I do find that there are some

[27:21] people who underneath everything that

[27:23] they say they believe, they don't

[27:25] really. So then their actions don't

[27:27] reflect that and their words are

[27:29] performative. So then for me, you know,

[27:32] been blessed with good friends and then

[27:35] also been blessed with um the right

[27:38] people in my life at the right time. And

[27:41] I'm sure some of that's a sort of like

[27:43] confirmation bias sort of thing. But I

[27:45] do really believe that. I think that

[27:47] whether it's conversations I've had that

[27:50] were 10 minutes long that stuck with me

[27:52] or friendships I've had for my entire

[27:54] life, like I' I've been been really

[27:57] blessed that the right people have been

[27:59] in my life at the right times and that

[28:01] whether it was life or my own personal

[28:04] choices, it got the people who were not

[28:06] good for me away from me.

[28:08] >> Was faith a part of your upbringing and

[28:10] is it a part of your life now? Yes, I I

[28:12] was raised in church and I don't go to

[28:16] church as often now, but I I feel like

[28:20] all of the

[28:23] all the lessons that I took away from

[28:26] church as a kid or a part of my life

[28:28] now. And I'd like to think that I am the

[28:33] the beneficiary of a lot of good

[28:35] lessons. And I've also been able to

[28:39] I've also been able to question the

[28:41] things that I don't think are congruent

[28:44] with like the rest of the message if

[28:46] that makes sense. In uh Kendrick Lamar's

[28:49] album like Mr. Moral and the Big

[28:51] Steppers, there's a a song where he is

[28:56] basically asking the pastor in this

[28:58] lyric form, should we not love our

[29:00] neighbor, the rules of the land or the

[29:03] heart, what's greater? cuz it was his

[29:05] pastor coming down on his cousin, I

[29:09] believe, for being gay or being trans or

[29:12] you sometimes have once again like a

[29:15] real inongruence. There are these people

[29:17] of faith that teach a message of love

[29:21] and then when you see them online or

[29:24] when you see them even in person at a

[29:27] lot of different points, they don't seem

[29:30] to have that love that they that they

[29:33] preach. And so I think that there's a a

[29:38] real gap there, especially with modern

[29:39] Christianity and what it's sort of

[29:41] turning into through politics. And so I

[29:44] think that knowing when to side sideline

[29:48] that stuff that I feel like is

[29:50] specifically not what the religion is

[29:52] about. something so specifically

[29:55] cultural, in the moment, just like

[29:57] temporal over things that are eternal is

[30:01] like that to me is the best way to

[30:04] digest everything that I've been taught.

[30:06] You know, like like there will be

[30:08] Christianity after Trump, but there's a

[30:10] specific type of Christianity with Trump

[30:13] that doesn't seem like it's anywhere in

[30:15] the Bible.

[30:16] >> Fair. I uh I covered for a long time. I

[30:20] spent a lot of time when I was a

[30:21] reporter covering evangelical Christians

[30:23] even though I was raised in a atheist

[30:26] context although I did have a bar

[30:27] mitzvah but I often joke that I did that

[30:29] only for the money.

[30:30] >> Sure. Um, and I the evangelicals I met

[30:35] were very sincere and I spent a lot of

[30:37] time with folks and it was really it was

[30:39] like I was a fish out of water spending

[30:40] a lot of time with these evangelicals in

[30:42] the heartland. And I was actually I

[30:44] really walked away in a lot of these

[30:46] cases impressed um and it it jarred me

[30:50] out of the stereotypes that I held as

[30:52] somebody who was raised in

[30:53] Massachusetts. But now I look at the

[30:56] American evangelical scene and I can I

[30:59] can't do the math on how they're down

[31:02] with a guy who like this. But anyway,

[31:04] having said that, it seems to me that

[31:06] you're saying, "Okay, yeah, I I set

[31:08] aside what I view as the hypocrisy of

[31:10] the modern manifestations of the faith,

[31:13] but like the eternal parts around like

[31:15] let's be a kind person. I'm down with

[31:17] that." And actually, that kind of brings

[31:19] me to your recent special on HBO

[31:22] Symphony. You should watch it. HBO Max

[31:25] streaming right now. How'd I do

[31:27] >> that? No, that was that was great. If

[31:29] anything, I'm I was almost going to look

[31:31] into your camera after you did, but I'll

[31:33] just look into this camera and be like,

[31:34] "Yeah, thanks. He's right." [laughter]

[31:38] In Symphony, there's a whole part toward

[31:40] the beginning. I c can't remember

[31:41] exactly what the context was. We were

[31:43] really just talking about how you you

[31:45] put a lot of emphasis on being a kind

[31:48] and decent person. And I was I was

[31:50] curious like was that just part of the

[31:52] bit or is that really a thing for you

[31:55] and is that based in in the faith in

[31:57] which you were raised?

[31:58] >> So it is it is a thing for me. One one

[32:01] thing I I'll say about like kindness

[32:04] especially in any form of the public eye

[32:07] is you do have pretty far to fall as

[32:11] well. Like that's that's the other

[32:13] that's the other risk with being um the

[32:17] whatever like nice or kind person is

[32:19] that in any moment that your your

[32:24] impatience or in any moment that your

[32:27] anger bubbles up to the forefront all of

[32:30] a sudden now it was all an act

[32:32] >> as opposed to you having 498 good days

[32:35] and two bad days. Whereas if you are a

[32:38] little bit more and I think it's why we

[32:40] have like the current political system

[32:42] we have if you're a bit more like

[32:45] brutish and if you're loud and obnoxious

[32:50] then anytime you're not that thing it's

[32:52] like you know I think beneath the

[32:53] surface he's actually like a really good

[32:55] guy. And so there's once again a sort of

[32:59] like hypocrisy of our understanding of

[33:01] who people are and who they present

[33:03] themselves to be. And so to me when when

[33:06] I'm talking about being like nice in

[33:08] symphony or even when I'm talking about

[33:11] um religion to a degree there's there's

[33:14] some aspect of it for me that is so much

[33:16] about what you know you are. And it's

[33:20] actually why some people need so badly

[33:22] to lie to themselves because if you were

[33:24] alone with yourself as you truly are,

[33:26] some people wouldn't know how to handle

[33:28] it. And so you come up with all of these

[33:30] like reasonings and ideas of why you did

[33:33] each thing and what each thing meant and

[33:35] I only did it because of that or

[33:37] whatever. But like when you're really

[33:39] deep down by yourself, especially

[33:41] meditating, you kind of know. And that's

[33:44] um something that I wanted to get to the

[33:46] heart of on top of getting to the heart

[33:48] of other like big ideas that are

[33:51] timeless, you know, like like ideas

[33:53] around family, ideas around love, ideas

[33:56] around like religion as well. And so my

[34:00] attempt is to speak very like broadly

[34:04] and plainly about my experiences, how

[34:06] they fit through these lenses or vice

[34:09] versa, like like all of these things

[34:11] through my lens as well. Um, and so

[34:14] that's what I I hope people get out of

[34:15] it when they watch it. Do you find that

[34:18] you're like you have um a kind of

[34:22] internalized Old Testament God uh

[34:25] judging you on your level of kindness

[34:27] moment to moment?

[34:28] >> I'm am sure this is like not how some

[34:32] theologian would would say I'm supposed

[34:34] to think about it. But I don't actually

[34:36] separate the testaments in in my mind. I

[34:39] think that

[34:40] separating them can get you into a bit

[34:43] of trouble on an understanding of what

[34:46] like the human experience is over time

[34:48] and an understanding of a

[34:51] misunderstanding of of God in general. I

[34:53] find that a lot of the Old Testament

[34:56] thinkers are also the people who happen

[34:59] to like love and serve a God who hates

[35:01] all the people they do because that that

[35:04] is was their takeaway from Old Testament

[35:06] and they forget all New Testament. They

[35:08] forget the biatitudes. They forget the

[35:11] um the the little lessons of of both

[35:13] like humility and charity that that

[35:16] Jesus taught and all that stuff is way

[35:19] more difficult. It's actually really

[35:22] easy to throw a rock. Like if you if you

[35:24] wanted to stone someone, I bet you could

[35:26] get that done in an afternoon. But if

[35:28] you want to love someone through

[35:30] addiction, that's going to be incredibly

[35:32] difficult. That's going to that's going

[35:34] to be remarkably hard because you're

[35:36] going to have to contend with a lot of

[35:38] things at one time. There's the person

[35:39] that you love, the person that you at

[35:42] least believe that you know, and then

[35:44] there's someone who is struggling with

[35:46] addiction. And so there's a way that

[35:48] someone's going to behave through their

[35:50] their struggle with their addiction. And

[35:52] then beyond all of that, there is like a

[35:55] soul to be seen. And then in trying to

[35:59] connect with and and see that soul, it's

[36:01] like it it can be marred by all of these

[36:05] actions and all of this thinking that

[36:07] might not even be the sort of like right

[36:10] mind of the person. If the person had

[36:12] their addiction to put to the side and

[36:14] had the decisions to make over again,

[36:16] would they make all the same decisions?

[36:18] Maybe, maybe not. But I think that when

[36:20] you are trying to behave and love in the

[36:25] way that Jesus taught, at least in the

[36:28] way that the new uh King James version

[36:32] of the Bible with the red parts

[36:34] highlighted for what Jesus said says, if

[36:37] you're trying to do all of that, that's

[36:39] going to be way harder than God hates

[36:41] all the people I hate, you know? And so

[36:43] I don't I don't separate them because I

[36:45] feel like that would um sidestep some

[36:48] questions. I think if you're just

[36:50] thinking New Testament, then you lose

[36:52] sight of how stark of a difference

[36:55] people's experiences were century to

[36:57] century with with God and with like

[37:00] God's law and everything. And I think

[37:03] that there's a lot of anxietyinducing

[37:06] things that um that you can pull away

[37:10] from just reading the Old Testament. And

[37:12] I think there's a lot of delusion that

[37:13] you can read from just reading the New

[37:16] Testament. As I record this, I am uh in

[37:19] a large house filled with lots of

[37:22] families. We're all taking a break

[37:24] together. I have an 11-year-old, but

[37:26] many of the other families here have

[37:27] teenagers. And one thing I've been

[37:29] watching up close with great interest

[37:30] because this is coming down the pike for

[37:32] me and my wife is how parents with

[37:35] teenagers deal with money with those

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[38:44] for full disclosure. Let me get back to

[38:47] Symphony for a second. in in these

[38:48] anxious times. I'm curious what you

[38:50] think about the role of comedy and

[38:53] there's a I was struck at the beginning

[38:56] of your special again symphony there's a

[38:58] DJ on the street and he's got a sign in

[39:01] front of him. Do you remember the exact

[39:03] words?

[39:03] >> So it starts with sort of a Moscow quote

[39:06] with my addition on top of it. So, uh,

[39:09] the quote, I believe, if I'm quoting it

[39:12] exactly right, was, uh, if art is how we

[39:14] decorate space and music is how we

[39:17] decorate time, comedy is how we decorate

[39:19] reality.

[39:20] >> That Basot quote and your embellishment

[39:23] on top of it was important enough to you

[39:25] to put right at the top of the special.

[39:28] >> Yes, cuz it's it's what the special and

[39:31] I aim to do. and you look at art and you

[39:35] see a blank canvas and that blank canvas

[39:37] has this imitous potential in that space

[39:41] to be whatever and then an artist comes

[39:43] along and the artist has a vision in

[39:46] their mind of what that space could look

[39:48] like and so they create it and then we

[39:50] look at this painting and we don't even

[39:52] see canvas when you when you see the

[39:55] Mona Lisa you don't think about the

[39:56] canvas that's underneath it and and when

[39:58] you when you see great work you don't

[39:59] think about oh that used to just be raw

[40:02] Right. Uh but it's very easy to look at

[40:05] a canvas and say it is what it is. It's

[40:07] the artist that comes along and makes it

[40:08] something else. Uh music works the same

[40:11] way. Music is how we decorate our time.

[40:13] You could look at time as whatever these

[40:15] seconds passing on a clock to track it

[40:18] and it is what it is. It used to be 3:00

[40:20] and now it's 4:00, right? But the artist

[40:23] comes along and they're like, I want to

[40:25] fill that time that passes with music

[40:28] and and the music perfectly fills out

[40:30] that time. There are songs I can listen

[40:33] to over and over and over again because

[40:35] the artists came along and decorated

[40:38] this space and it doesn't have to be for

[40:41] my time but they they decorated it

[40:43] however they saw fit and I choose to

[40:45] fill my time with it. And you could look

[40:47] at reality a lot of acceptance is

[40:50] looking at reality as it is what it is.

[40:52] That is what happened. That just is how

[40:55] people are. This is what we do. I don't

[40:57] know. This is how it's always been done.

[40:59] this is what I think things should be

[41:01] like. And comedians come along and they

[41:03] sort of decorate that reality. They

[41:05] decorate like why do we do this? Like a

[41:08] lot of good comedy comes from asking

[41:10] questions of yourself and then of the

[41:12] audience. And so sometimes good jokes

[41:15] come in the form of a question. But it's

[41:17] like why why do we have socks?

[41:21] [laughter] Who figured out socks? Now

[41:22] you could just look at getting dressed

[41:24] in the morning. It's like I put on my

[41:25] socks. I put on my shoes. But then the

[41:27] comedian comes along and they're like,

[41:30] "Why aren't the bottom of shoes flat?"

[41:33] Like, they got have all these ridges.

[41:35] Are the ridges helping me? Like, what is

[41:37] the ridge for? Because I've worn

[41:39] Champions, I've worn Nikes, I've worn

[41:41] Adidas, and they have different ridges.

[41:43] And some of them got circle ridge. What

[41:45] is that? And then some of them have like

[41:47] a split in the middle. Like, am I

[41:49] walking around on buck teeth? And so

[41:51] then you you ask all these questions.

[41:54] And in in the answering of those

[41:55] questions is a sort of decoration. It's

[41:57] no different than the decoration of

[41:59] space that that happens on uh a canvas.

[42:02] And I think it's no different than the

[42:04] decoration of time that is filled with

[42:06] music.

[42:07] >> But it it it strikes me I love all of

[42:09] that. It strikes me that in a context of

[42:13] a lot of political and geopolitical

[42:15] tumult that comedians can help us

[42:19] decorate reality in a couple of

[42:22] meaningful ways. one, give voice to our

[42:26] anger and anxiety and helplessness in a

[42:29] in a way that's kind of constructive in

[42:31] that it helps helps us move through the

[42:35] emotions in a in a way that gets us to a

[42:38] laugh and makes us feel like we're all

[42:39] in it together. I I started that as if

[42:42] it's a list, but actually that's just

[42:44] the one thing that I was thinking of.

[42:46] >> Sure. But I also think that there's uh

[42:49] sometimes a distilling of a lot of

[42:51] thoughts or feelings that come through

[42:53] in a joke for a person like the comedian

[42:55] that told the joke, but they also end up

[42:58] being exactly how the audience distills

[43:00] those things as well. One of the things

[43:02] that I aim to do, whether it's the

[43:04] weekly sets that I put out on YouTube,

[43:06] which are more topical, or the something

[43:09] that's meant to be timeless like

[43:11] Symphony, that I hope for people to

[43:12] watch like 50 years from now, even if

[43:14] they don't know who I am, they just

[43:16] could turn it on and watch it and enjoy

[43:17] it. is is that you are

[43:22] like in in a in a universe that is so

[43:25] expansive, in a world that is so big,

[43:27] and in the short amount of time that you

[43:29] have, not only do you matter, but you

[43:31] aren't alone. There are millions of

[43:32] people feeling the things that you feel.

[43:34] Like the idea that we even have a

[43:36] loneliness epidemic means that there are

[43:38] plenty of friends to be made and plenty

[43:40] of people who could benefit from from

[43:42] being a friend or having a friend. And I

[43:45] think that with comedy, what you can do

[43:47] is you can take all these things that

[43:50] might just seem like platitudes if

[43:51] they're just said, if they're just

[43:52] tweeted out, if they're just like

[43:54] sitting in front of you, and then when

[43:56] colored with stories both from your

[43:58] personal life or just like making an

[44:01] assessment of the thing that is

[44:02] happening, then uh I think that you can

[44:06] show you can show it more efficiently.

[44:09] this idea that you're not alone or this

[44:11] idea that you even matter, you know,

[44:13] like I I I think that a lot of people

[44:16] end up making art for a version of

[44:18] themselves that that they needed and

[44:20] that's why it like comes out of them and

[44:23] I think that those were things that at

[44:24] any given point in my life I needed to

[44:27] hear. So you see something like the HBO

[44:30] special and that to me is like me trying

[44:34] to tackle um things that will be around

[44:38] as subjects and maybe issues much longer

[44:42] than I'll be around. Whereas the weekly

[44:44] that I put on YouTube, it's like I will

[44:46] take something that's happening right

[44:48] now that you may not care about in 2

[44:50] weeks and I will try to distill that

[44:52] thing from a place of making it make

[44:54] sense through jokes. Like you look at

[44:56] someone like RFK Jr. and how he's like

[44:58] the head of health.

[45:00] He's the He's the head of He's the top

[45:02] of health. He's the healthiest we have.

[45:06] That's terrifying. And not only is it

[45:08] terrifying, it reminds me of the time

[45:11] where my school nurse was sick. So now

[45:14] you're sick and now she coughing. It's

[45:18] like, what are we supposed to do here?

[45:20] Cuz she sounds terrible. And it's like

[45:23] and that thing that like my my school

[45:27] nurse being sick is exactly what RFK Jr.

[45:30] feels like as the head of health and

[45:31] human services because it doesn't sound

[45:33] I mean from every report I've read it

[45:35] sounds like man's checked out. It sounds

[45:37] like he shows up for press conferences

[45:39] but like he hasn't been briefed on a

[45:41] bunch of things and it doesn't seem like

[45:43] he's trying to busy himself with like

[45:45] fixing problems. And I'm talking about

[45:47] the problems we have now. Never mind

[45:48] like we were supposed to make America

[45:50] healthy again by getting all the

[45:51] additives out. And I don't remember what

[45:53] happened to that. Skittles taste the

[45:55] same. [laughter]

[45:57] Did you get anything out? Maybe you did.

[45:59] Look, maybe I don't know. Maybe the

[46:00] Skittles are completely different. But

[46:03] things things that they don't ingest in

[46:05] Europe are ingested here. Meanwhile,

[46:08] we're like, why are we the sickest

[46:09] people of the world? It's like seems

[46:11] like you could put two and two together.

[46:13] There's just a lot of money to be made

[46:14] by keeping things the way they are with

[46:16] people who are already making money. And

[46:18] so maybe you could make your entire

[46:20] administration and your entire tenure as

[46:22] the head of health and human services as

[46:24] challenging all that, but I don't know

[46:26] if that's happening if you're, you know,

[46:28] taking pictures with uh like fast food

[46:32] in front of you and stuff like that.

[46:34] It's like I'm not saying that's a a

[46:36] whole endorsement, but as a as a guy

[46:39] who's skeptical of vaccines, you don't

[46:41] seem too skeptical of hamburgers.

[46:43] And I think that all of that stuff is is

[46:46] something you could poke fun at. And you

[46:48] don't have to be making the final

[46:50] statement on all of politics. I'm not

[46:53] trying to convince anyone uh to believe

[46:56] exactly what I believe, but I do think

[46:58] by questioning things, I might make them

[47:01] question why they think what they think.

[47:03] >> Yes. And it feels to me like you're

[47:05] actually kind of just helping us, you're

[47:08] helping reality go down smoother. You're

[47:10] actually getting us to acceptance.

[47:12] really this is bringing the conversation

[47:14] full circle. That's one of the services

[47:16] you're providing that you're helping us

[47:19] laugh about what's happening, process it

[47:22] together so that we can do the next

[47:24] thing which is engage effectively.

[47:25] >> It's it's definitely an aim and I've

[47:29] really wrestled for years

[47:32] as long as I've been putting things out

[47:34] on YouTube. I've wrestled with the idea

[47:36] of like, okay, how should I go about

[47:40] doing that? Because is it always the

[47:42] right thing to do?

[47:43] >> I don't I don't I don't want to make the

[47:45] news go down easy enough that it feels

[47:48] normal because these things are not

[47:50] normal and some things are like that's

[47:52] actually why sometimes I don't cover a

[47:54] topic because I don't want to make the

[47:56] mistake of something can be done about

[47:59] like RFK Jr. being head of health and

[48:01] human services. He could be fired. Do

[48:03] you know what I mean? And and something

[48:05] can be done about a lot of things. But

[48:08] then there are things that I think to

[48:10] get people feeling comfortable or to get

[48:13] people feeling okay with would be a

[48:16] disservice to to what whatever the topic

[48:18] is and to the people that I'm talking

[48:20] to. And so because my job is to do

[48:23] comedy and because my job is to make

[48:25] people laugh and and we're supposed to

[48:27] come together and have a good time, I

[48:28] can talk about things that are serious

[48:31] as well. But I I also don't take lightly

[48:35] the the subjects that I choose because I

[48:38] try to only choose things I really have

[48:39] something to say about and I try to also

[48:42] give some insight on what I think can be

[48:44] done about it because outside of that

[48:47] you're just complaining.

[48:49] >> Although I would say that sometimes the

[48:51] right type of complaining can be healthy

[48:54] catharsis.

[48:55] >> Sure. Sure. Absolutely. I'm not saying I

[48:57] know what to do in every scenario that

[48:59] I've brought up, but I try to really be

[49:01] mindful of what it is I'm going to say

[49:03] to people about about whatever it is I'm

[49:06] going to talk about. And I think that

[49:08] for something like symphony, it was it

[49:10] was a bit the the difficulty came from

[49:14] how do I hold up these subjects as

[49:16] pillars of the overall work and

[49:18] everything. And then the difficulty

[49:20] sometimes with the weekly is like

[49:23] how do I break this thing down in a way

[49:26] that feels uh digestible for the

[49:30] understanding and then what what would I

[49:34] do about it and what am I doing about it

[49:36] and maybe I just share that and so so

[49:39] it's it's two very different types of

[49:41] contemplation that go into creating both

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[51:07] Please support our show and tell them

[51:09] that we sent you.

[51:11] You've mentioned the weeklies on YouTube

[51:14] a couple of times and I didn't mean to

[51:16] ask you about them. How many weeks have

[51:18] you been dropping these hour-long

[51:21] um pieces of content on YouTube for?

[51:24] >> We just made uh 3 years this week.

[51:27] >> Congratulations.

[51:28] >> Thanks. Yeah.

[51:28] >> And it's kind of insane. I mean, that's

[51:31] it's an extraordinary achievement, but

[51:32] like to do a an hour of new material

[51:36] every week on top of

[51:38] >> in that same period of time doing a a

[51:41] full special on HBO and then being one

[51:44] of the the a correspondent and co-host

[51:46] of the Daily Show. That's just an

[51:48] enormous amount of work. So, I'm just

[51:49] curious like how do you find the time

[51:52] and energy to do it? Why did you want to

[51:53] do it in the first place?

[51:54] >> I mean, some of it is uh some of it is

[51:58] like obsession. And I I want to I want

[52:02] to be my version of whatever the best

[52:04] is. And I look at comedians that um I

[52:07] feel like are just so incredible. And

[52:09] I'm like, how do you how do you get that

[52:11] good? Well, you get that good by

[52:13] practice. And what's the best type of

[52:14] practice to do something every day? And

[52:16] then if you're doing something every

[52:18] day, makes sense to put out that work.

[52:22] Putting out work makes it easier for you

[52:24] to accept what the responses are to your

[52:27] work. like all all these things every

[52:29] every day is like practice for the next

[52:32] day, you know? And so I'm set out to

[52:35] become a better writer, a better

[52:37] comedian, and it's on my mind all the

[52:40] time. I'm like writing all the time and

[52:42] everything. And then through g becoming

[52:45] more known and and getting more popular,

[52:48] I've been able to be on the road and do

[52:50] shows most weekends. And by doing shows

[52:53] more often, I'm able to practice the

[52:56] actual standup more often. And then it

[52:59] just is a yeah, it's a it's a a cycle

[53:03] that I'm on of like what is the thing

[53:06] that I'm passionate about to talk about,

[53:08] go out, talk about it,

[53:11] give it give it away to the people who

[53:13] couldn't make it to the show, and repeat

[53:16] that thing. You basically had an

[53:18] audacious goal, which is I want to be

[53:21] one of the best, if not the best, at my

[53:23] craft. And so, how am I going to do

[53:25] that? I'm going to work my ass off, and

[53:27] I'm just going to create. And I think

[53:29] you in an in a an accompanying social

[53:32] media post around the fact that you just

[53:35] reached this three-year milestone, you

[53:37] one of your messages to other aspiring

[53:40] creators of any type is you have to just

[53:42] start. And that appears to be what you

[53:46] did. Um, are you going to keep going

[53:49] forever?

[53:50] >> I'm not sure. I mean, I think the thing

[53:52] that's nice about um a pursuit of being

[53:56] the best is that in every art form,

[53:58] everything is so subjective and relative

[54:00] that like the best is like it's nice cuz

[54:02] it's it has a carrot in front of you

[54:04] that you're never going to get to, but

[54:05] it keeps you like running a bit harder

[54:07] on the treadmill, which keeps you fit,

[54:10] if that makes sense. I look at getting

[54:12] better as

[54:14] something that only I will know. So, it

[54:17] has to come with a little bit of

[54:20] acceptance that I'm getting better. But

[54:22] to call myself the best would feel like

[54:24] delusion. So, I'll never do that. So,

[54:27] then where does that leave you? And if

[54:30] you think about too hard, it kind of

[54:31] leaves you in a weird limbo. But if

[54:33] you're if you're like, "Oh, maybe I can

[54:35] be a little bit better tomorrow." And

[54:36] maybe I could be a little bit better

[54:37] tomorrow. and you keep getting tomorrows

[54:40] and you keep making things, then I think

[54:43] that you're on track to be somebody's

[54:46] best. I can be somebody's favorite.

[54:48] Can't be everybody's favorite. And I may

[54:50] never feel as good as the people I look

[54:52] up to, but that's okay. And and as long

[54:56] as you inspire somebody, somebody enjoys

[54:58] you, someone had a phenomenal time, it's

[55:01] the best show that they've ever seen,

[55:03] then who's to say you're not on that

[55:06] path? And I think that one of the most

[55:09] like biting things I' I ever got as

[55:13] advice was not luckily not even to me or

[55:15] I think about it every day. It was to

[55:17] somebody else in my class where there

[55:19] was someone who came to speak to us and

[55:21] they were talking to us about our

[55:23] projects and

[55:25] they had asked one of us um about their

[55:29] story. They were writing a short story

[55:31] and the person who was talking could

[55:33] tell them everything about the short

[55:35] story. They could even they were even

[55:38] projecting how the reader would feel at

[55:40] certain parts of the story and like and

[55:42] the twist and bl just getting it all out

[55:45] there and then they were like oh can I

[55:47] read it and they were like oh it's it's

[55:49] not quite done yet and simply they just

[55:53] simply said the most important thing

[55:55] about artists is that artists finish and

[55:57] it's like that's that's it. We're all so

[56:00] worried about people who aren't even

[56:02] looking at us. You know what I mean? You

[56:04] could worry all day about how somebody's

[56:06] gonna digest something that you put out

[56:08] or you could put it out and see because

[56:09] you could be wrong.

[56:10] >> Do you read the comments?

[56:12] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[56:13] >> I'm sure at times that's unpleasant.

[56:15] >> It can be. But I mean, I've been blessed

[56:17] with an incredible community around me

[56:20] that I think are really earnest both in

[56:22] their criticism and in their uh praise.

[56:25] And I try not to read too much because I

[56:28] think it could sway you one way or the

[56:29] other. It could have you feeling like

[56:31] the best that ever did it off of

[56:33] opinions online or it could have you

[56:35] feeling like you should quit off

[56:36] opinions online. Meanwhile, the thing

[56:39] you shared is a thing that the people in

[56:41] the video liked. That's one of the

[56:43] things in journalism that I sometimes

[56:46] was perplexed by. You would you would

[56:48] see online someone make a joke and

[56:52] especially if it was standup and

[56:53] especially if it was produced standup,

[56:55] right? There would be an anchor that

[56:58] would be talking with a panel about if a

[57:02] joke was funny, but then just play the

[57:04] clip. Are the people laughing? Then the

[57:06] people laughing found it funny. Even if

[57:08] I don't find it funny, like there

[57:10] there's plenty of things that I'm like,

[57:12] "All right, it's okay." And then if you

[57:14] play the clip, the people there are

[57:16] dying, though. So, it's funny to them.

[57:19] So, it's it's it's a hard thing to say

[57:22] what is and isn't funny. And it's and

[57:24] it's a hard thing to say what uh should

[57:28] and shouldn't be done. I can only

[57:30] control what I will and won't do and

[57:32] what I find funny. You know, I I think

[57:35] that like bombing is a good indication

[57:38] of whether or not you were funny.

[57:39] >> In the three years, are there moments in

[57:43] any of the videos where you bomb and

[57:45] you've posted it anyway?

[57:46] >> Not really. No. There there's definitely

[57:48] been some moments where I was like,

[57:50] let's let's leave this in when I'm doing

[57:53] that, you know, like like sort of

[57:56] assessment of which show went the best

[57:58] and my editor is like editing it. I'll

[58:01] be like maybe we leave this in because

[58:03] it didn't get the biggest laugh, but it

[58:04] is part of my overall like idea that I'm

[58:07] sharing. So sometimes those things are

[58:09] important and sometimes you'll you'll

[58:12] find like this happens sometimes with

[58:14] late night. It also happens with

[58:17] produced sets by uh like some third

[58:20] party company where a comedian will

[58:23] perform and then the comments will say

[58:26] like the audience didn't give them

[58:28] enough and maybe that's even they the

[58:32] audience wasn't miked as efficiently as

[58:34] possible or things can happen but people

[58:38] online are going to have their specific

[58:40] opinion of whatever you did. It might be

[58:41] influenced by how it went, but they're

[58:45] going to have their own opinion. And so,

[58:47] yeah, I I find that the practice is what

[58:50] has helped me not have to wonder, oh,

[58:53] the set didn't even go well, but should

[58:55] I post it just to say I'm keeping up?

[58:58] It's like I haven't really had to make

[59:00] that sort of decision.

[59:02] >> You've been very patient with all my

[59:03] questions today. Um,

[59:05] >> oh, it's not even patience. I like

[59:06] talking to you, but I also talk a lot.

[59:09] So, if at any point you want to chime in

[59:11] here, [laughter]

[59:13] feel free.

[59:14] >> That is not my job. My job is to get you

[59:16] talking.

[59:16] >> Okay. If you say so.

[59:18] >> Is there anything you were hoping we

[59:19] would get to that we haven't gotten to?

[59:21] Anything else coming up that you want to

[59:24] >> Oh, yeah. I can talk about the tour.

[59:26] >> Please do.

[59:27] >> Yeah. So, I'm very excited. Comedy Band

[59:29] Camp, which is my new tour. And the tour

[59:33] is and the intention behind it is to

[59:37] give everyone the sort of like camp

[59:39] experience that I always wanted. Um

[59:43] there's a lot of uh different aspects to

[59:46] the world that you that you're going to

[59:48] be visiting. So there's a show you can

[59:50] buy a ticket to a show and come enjoy

[59:52] the show and the show is going to have

[59:54] music. exam dance and and and comedy,

[59:57] but there's also a personality quiz that

[1:00:00] we have that you can take. And you take

[1:00:02] the personality quiz and it'll tell you

[1:00:03] what troop you're in. And the the troop

[1:00:06] is based off of like different people's

[1:00:08] personalities. Like if you're super

[1:00:10] independent, you might be red rogues. If

[1:00:12] you're a little mischievous, you might

[1:00:14] be feisty foxes. If you're like really

[1:00:17] into music and like um have a Yeah. have

[1:00:23] like a sense of awareness around your

[1:00:24] emotions. You might be sapphire blues

[1:00:26] and everything. You're more introverted.

[1:00:28] You might be fuchsia flames. And so all

[1:00:31] these troops come together and there's

[1:00:34] going to be um an aspect of the show

[1:00:37] where, you know, you can hopefully get

[1:00:40] to maybe meet your people. Um if you if

[1:00:43] you got ivy leaves and someone else got

[1:00:45] ivy leaves and y'all are both wearing

[1:00:47] your ivy leaf shirt, then yeah, you

[1:00:49] might be able to strike up a

[1:00:51] conversation just on that. But the

[1:00:52] intention around it is to introduce as

[1:00:56] many people as possible to people who

[1:00:58] are like them already. Not just in the

[1:01:00] fact that they wanted to go to a comedy

[1:01:02] show that night, but also um in their

[1:01:05] personality and and like and create

[1:01:07] these ice breakers so people already

[1:01:09] have something to talk about outright.

[1:01:11] And then there's going to we're going to

[1:01:13] have as far as the scope of the tour, as

[1:01:16] long as the tour lasts, there's going to

[1:01:17] be games that come out and and different

[1:01:19] like meetups that we're planning and

[1:01:21] everything and a scavenger hunt and

[1:01:23] stuff. So, I'm I'm working on making

[1:01:25] this uh something that people really can

[1:01:28] remember and on top of coming to the

[1:01:30] show.

[1:01:31] >> I love that. It's it's it's comedy. It's

[1:01:34] entertainment, but it's also like the

[1:01:36] antidote to the loneliness crisis, you

[1:01:38] know?

[1:01:38] >> That's what I hope. Yeah. I I hope

[1:01:40] there's a a source and a means of

[1:01:42] community through people coming to the

[1:01:45] show.

[1:01:45] >> Thank you for making time for me today.

[1:01:47] Really appreciate it. It was a pleasure

[1:01:49] to meet you.

[1:01:49] >> Yeah, it's great to meet you. And what a

[1:01:51] voice, by the way. Oh,

[1:01:52] >> thank you.

[1:01:52] >> What like what an incredible voice.

[1:01:55] >> I have a little brother.

[1:01:57] >> Same voice.

[1:01:58] >> Really?

[1:01:58] >> Yeah. Same. Our parents and wives cannot

[1:02:00] tell us apart.

[1:02:01] >> On the phone.

[1:02:02] >> Yeah.

[1:02:02] >> Wow.

[1:02:03] >> Yes.

[1:02:04] >> This is incredible because here's the

[1:02:05] thing. Sometimes when you're watching

[1:02:07] the news, you're thinking that's that

[1:02:08] person's news voice. Do you know what I

[1:02:11] mean? Like this is the voice I have to

[1:02:13] have to tell you about the horrible

[1:02:14] thing I'm about to tell you about.

[1:02:16] [laughter] Because honestly, I think you

[1:02:17] could deliver some real good bad news.

[1:02:20] >> Yeah. Well, that was my job for a long

[1:02:21] time.

[1:02:22] >> Yeah. Yeah. I get But but here's the

[1:02:23] thing. I watched you on TV and always

[1:02:26] thought like, all right, he's got to

[1:02:28] like center himself. He's got to get

[1:02:30] himself ready. He's got to like do the

[1:02:32] vocal the vocal warm up just so he can

[1:02:34] hit us with like 12 people today, right?

[1:02:37] But you you're over here. This is this

[1:02:39] is how you order breakfast.

[1:02:41] >> Yes. My first anchor job I was 23 years

[1:02:44] old and I looked like I was 12. But I

[1:02:47] had this crazy deep voice that is really

[1:02:50] is what saved me in those early years.

[1:02:52] >> Wow.

[1:02:53] >> I I want to hear a snippet of you kind

[1:02:56] of doing everything. [laughter]

[1:02:58] >> That would be great.

[1:03:00] Have you ever thought about like lending

[1:03:02] your voice to like the audio version of

[1:03:05] an instruction manual?

[1:03:07] >> Nobody's asked me to do that.

[1:03:08] >> I would ask you if I owned an appliance,

[1:03:11] I would ask you to do that immediately.

[1:03:13] >> You don't own an appliance?

[1:03:14] >> Well, I don't own a company.

[1:03:15] >> Oh, I see. I see that. If you

[1:03:17] >> I mean, you could read it to me. You

[1:03:19] could come over and then we could sit

[1:03:21] with my IKEA furniture as I put it

[1:03:24] together. And not only would it be a

[1:03:26] soothing experience, I feel like I would

[1:03:27] do it right [laughter] cuz I'm just

[1:03:29] hearing me in my head when I read.

[1:03:31] >> Yeah. You know, like your version.

[1:03:33] >> No, I'm I'm good on it. I'm all right.

[1:03:36] But you got Yeah. Like such a perfect

[1:03:38] delivering voice for information.

[1:03:41] >> The there you know there are all these

[1:03:43] sleep stories. The the people read

[1:03:46] boring stuff.

[1:03:46] >> Yeah. Like the calm app does that. I

[1:03:49] should probably do that. I could read

[1:03:51] >> No, 100%.

[1:03:52] >> Are you Are you not doing that already?

[1:03:53] Oh, I should do that.

[1:03:54] >> You have to do this.

[1:03:56] >> Even if you just do it for 10 minutes as

[1:03:58] a joke, you h you have to do this. I'm

[1:04:01] telling you. And find something. You got

[1:04:03] you got to find something like old

[1:04:05] school like like I would say read um

[1:04:10] I would say read a little Shakespeare.

[1:04:12] >> Hit him with some Shakespeare and like

[1:04:14] don't don't emote though. Whether you're

[1:04:16] like the cortisan or you're the porter

[1:04:19] or whatever, hit them with your Yes.

[1:04:22] monotone.

[1:04:23] >> Absolutely.

[1:04:24] >> I think you you would you would put them

[1:04:26] out.

[1:04:26] >> And the thing is now I don't even need

[1:04:28] to do it cuz AI can take a few snippets

[1:04:32] of my voice

[1:04:33] >> and just you just put the IKEA manual in

[1:04:36] it and it spits out me reading it.

[1:04:38] >> Can I tell you that that thing is

[1:04:41] something that I actually hate so much.

[1:04:45] I hate like I don't I don't necessarily

[1:04:47] hate all of AI, but the fact that like

[1:04:51] we were promised cures.

[1:04:54] >> Yeah.

[1:04:54] >> And the and then they're like, "Well, we

[1:04:56] could just steal your whole likeness."

[1:04:58] [laughter]

[1:04:59] That's the same, right? Like that's kind

[1:05:02] of like living forever.

[1:05:03] >> That's curing you of having a job.

[1:05:04] >> Yeah. We'll we'll cure you of having a

[1:05:06] job and no one will even know that

[1:05:08] you're gone. Exactly. It's like

[1:05:09] meanwhile it's like no you said that

[1:05:12] cancer screenings would become like

[1:05:15] 99.9%

[1:05:17] more efficient like you would what

[1:05:20] happened to that. It's like oh we're

[1:05:21] working on that but we could using just

[1:05:24] your retina [laughter]

[1:05:26] steal all of your personal information.

[1:05:28] What about that? That's good too right?

[1:05:31] I have such a bone to pick with like

[1:05:33] what we're being sold versus what we're

[1:05:35] getting because if they if they had a

[1:05:37] couple breakthroughs, I'd be like,

[1:05:39] "Y'all, I think we got to let them take

[1:05:41] all the water." You [laughter] know what

[1:05:42] I mean? But they don't. They're like

[1:05:44] their thing. The biggest thing I've been

[1:05:47] trying to get people to understand is

[1:05:49] that there is an an attitude towards AI

[1:05:52] as if it is an inevitability. Right? But

[1:05:56] who who told us it was an inevitability?

[1:05:58] the people from the company.

[1:06:01] >> Yes.

[1:06:02] >> So we we we forget how Tim Cook came out

[1:06:08] and said that the Apple Vision Pro would

[1:06:10] be the future of work and play. Like

[1:06:12] this dude was you will you won't he

[1:06:15] won't want to take it off. Apple Vision

[1:06:17] Pro. And then it came out and then

[1:06:19] people were like no. Do you mean like

[1:06:22] these people actually know so little

[1:06:24] about people about the future and about

[1:06:26] what we want or what has to be and for

[1:06:30] whatever reason with AI maybe because

[1:06:32] we're impressed by like getting a whole

[1:06:34] portrait in two seconds or something

[1:06:36] like that we're letting them in a way

[1:06:38] that doesn't make sense. You look at the

[1:06:40] metaverse Zuckerberg was like that's the

[1:06:42] fe you won't want to leave. He's selling

[1:06:44] you something.

[1:06:46] >> And they're all selling us AI right now.

[1:06:48] And the AI they're selling us isn't even

[1:06:49] the AI they're giving us,

[1:06:51] >> right?

[1:06:51] >> And that's what's so frustrating. It's

[1:06:53] like if there was truly a thing that was

[1:06:56] cur straight up curing people's cancer,

[1:06:59] I'd be like, "Yeah, I think you got to

[1:07:02] let the AI be the doctor. He he cures

[1:07:05] this AI cures." But that's not what's

[1:07:07] happening. What's happening is that they

[1:07:09] stole art and they stole art from

[1:07:12] artists and then they fed it back to us

[1:07:15] because now if you type in a prompt and

[1:07:17] you get a picture, it's it's based off

[1:07:20] of a mixture of other people's work. So

[1:07:23] AI almost doesn't exist. Like it's it's

[1:07:26] almost a lot like when I'm like, "Hey,

[1:07:28] did you hear what he said?

[1:07:31] >> Yes.

[1:07:31] >> That's like the best version of the best

[1:07:33] description I have for AI." like this

[1:07:35] generative idea that's coming up with

[1:07:38] with tons of things on its own that

[1:07:40] doesn't exist right now.

[1:07:41] >> You think the promise is all

[1:07:45] like that we're none of this none of the

[1:07:48] good stuff is going to come down the

[1:07:49] pike that mostly it's just going to be

[1:07:52] theft and job eraser.

[1:07:54] >> Yes. Because I think that the rate at

[1:07:57] which I think that art was the perfect

[1:08:01] red herring and the perfect placement to

[1:08:03] look like it was doing things it

[1:08:04] couldn't do. If I go in for a scan and

[1:08:07] I'm worried I may have something wrong

[1:08:09] with my body. You can't then steal

[1:08:12] someone else's scan and steal someone

[1:08:14] else's results and then wrap it all up

[1:08:16] and then hand it to me and be like,

[1:08:18] "Here's your scan. You need to be able

[1:08:20] to do what it is you say you're going to

[1:08:21] do." with art. I could be like, "Can you

[1:08:24] show me Donald Duck fighting an angel?"

[1:08:27] And you can mix Michelangelo and Walt

[1:08:30] Disney and a little bit of like Lex

[1:08:32] Fletcher or something like that. Like,

[1:08:34] you can mix all these cartoonists up and

[1:08:36] then give me that. But you can't you

[1:08:39] can't steal real results and they have

[1:08:41] what they have by scraping all of our

[1:08:43] work and selling it back to us. And so I

[1:08:46] don't I'm not saying that those things

[1:08:48] can't happen, but you would think they'd

[1:08:50] be working on them a little harder. Open

[1:08:52] AI spent billions on Sora. They didn't

[1:08:55] spend billions on this medical equipment

[1:08:58] to make cancer screenings perfect. They

[1:09:01] could have just like Zuckerberg could

[1:09:04] have spent $88 billion on something

[1:09:06] besides the metaverse, you know. And so

[1:09:08] it's like I think that those promises

[1:09:10] are what they hold above our heads. I

[1:09:12] think these salesmen are becoming a lot

[1:09:14] like politicians where we have to give

[1:09:17] them something. They used to just have

[1:09:18] to make stuff and then sell it to us.

[1:09:20] But now they have to sell us a promise

[1:09:22] and then that promise is going to be us

[1:09:25] giving them permission through

[1:09:26] legislation or through uh putting the

[1:09:28] people in office who they're going to

[1:09:29] lobby to whatever to change our lives

[1:09:32] for the thing they're still dangling

[1:09:34] over us that is not going to happen you

[1:09:37] know. And so I think that really coming

[1:09:39] to the understanding you see you even

[1:09:41] see grads doing it like you saw all

[1:09:43] those uh students booing those people

[1:09:46] giving the commencement speeches and

[1:09:48] it's like yes because we are saying no

[1:09:50] like we said no to Apple Vision Pro we

[1:09:52] are saying no the same way we said no to

[1:09:54] the metaverse. The difference here is

[1:09:56] that they've lobbyied our politicians

[1:09:58] and they've got they've got things that

[1:09:59] they shouldn't have been able to get

[1:10:01] based off promises that they do not have

[1:10:03] to fulfill to get us in a position where

[1:10:06] only they benefit. And I think that

[1:10:09] teaching and believing that it is an

[1:10:11] inevitability gives up our agency in a

[1:10:14] way that is unnecessary. You know, I

[1:10:17] understand there's the feeling of you

[1:10:18] can't fight city hall, you can't

[1:10:20] whatever, but I'm telling you, our

[1:10:24] rejection of the thing matters and it

[1:10:27] matters more than we are being given

[1:10:29] credit for by the people who want to

[1:10:31] build these data centers and communities

[1:10:33] that say no. It it matters more than the

[1:10:36] politicians who literally need our vote

[1:10:38] to stay in power. And right now, I think

[1:10:42] in this specific moment, and hopefully

[1:10:44] this year is the end of it, we are

[1:10:46] seeing um a complete disregard for the

[1:10:50] general public, for our effort, for our

[1:10:52] labor, and for our intelligence. Really,

[1:10:55] it's like the nerve it takes to take

[1:10:57] everything that I made and then sell it

[1:11:00] back to us as in someone else, my words,

[1:11:03] my my work, and my effort, but then also

[1:11:06] say, you don't need me. And they're

[1:11:08] finding now that like AI is not

[1:11:10] necessarily uh at least in its current

[1:11:12] state a net benefit to the uh market.

[1:11:16] It's it's sunken what? There's there's

[1:11:20] like $1.5 trillion sunk into it for

[1:11:22] what? Not for a profit. What what other

[1:11:26] ideas? Imagine if we were like, "Hey,

[1:11:28] what if we put one point $1.5 trillion

[1:11:31] into hunger? You're willing to lose the

[1:11:33] money anyway. you're bad with the money

[1:11:35] anyway, so you might as well feed some

[1:11:37] kids while you do it. You know, 88

[1:11:40] billion dollars like that. That's the

[1:11:41] thing. Not to go on another tangent, but

[1:11:43] it was you you also may want to cut

[1:11:45] this, but one of the things [laughter]

[1:11:47] that I was saying to a friend about like

[1:11:49] especially after that last shooting at

[1:11:51] the White House on the lawn was like all

[1:11:54] Trump would have to do is come out. He

[1:11:57] because now we're talking we're losing

[1:11:59] count on attempts, right? And so now all

[1:12:02] Trump would have to do is come out and

[1:12:04] be like, "Hey, you know what y'all? Free

[1:12:06] school lunch. Y'all not going to shoot

[1:12:08] free school lunch." All right. Free

[1:12:10] school lunch. And and you know what? I'm

[1:12:12] I'mma walk without a hat on. Free school

[1:12:14] lunch for everybody.

[1:12:16] I think that the these people are um

[1:12:19] they're too they're too set in their

[1:12:21] ways. I think they're too greedy and

[1:12:22] they're too blinded by what they think

[1:12:24] they can get to. They will they will

[1:12:26] sink the whole world. they will burn it

[1:12:28] all down just to try to get to a version

[1:12:30] of AI that nobody asked for that we

[1:12:32] don't need that that we have no plan. If

[1:12:35] if the US was one of those countries

[1:12:37] that might genuinely be open to some

[1:12:39] sort of UBI like if they were actually

[1:12:42] open to a universal basic income as a as

[1:12:45] an like a bipartisan effort, then yeah,

[1:12:48] let's give it a shot. Let let's let's

[1:12:50] give some of it a shot. Not all of it

[1:12:51] because you're still making all the

[1:12:52] water dirty, but like let's give it some

[1:12:55] sort of shot. But you can't tell me that

[1:12:58] you're going to steal from me and then

[1:13:00] make me pay you for the things that used

[1:13:03] to be free all while displacing me and

[1:13:07] think that nothing's going to happen.

[1:13:09] That's actually insane.

[1:13:10] >> What I can say with some degree of

[1:13:12] confidence is

[1:13:14] the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years are going

[1:13:17] to be tumultuous and uh and largely

[1:13:21] because of AI. Um and we're going to

[1:13:24] need comedy.

[1:13:25] >> Fingers crossed. Yeah,

[1:13:26] >> we're going to need comedy.

[1:13:27] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's why it's important to

[1:13:29] come see me in person. Somebody could

[1:13:31] steal my likeness and be like, I love

[1:13:33] Sora. [laughter]

[1:13:35] >> Sora is the best in I mean, somebody

[1:13:36] could clip it. Yeah. Yeah. Come to the

[1:13:39] real show. Be with real people.

[1:13:41] [laughter]

[1:13:42] >> Indeed. Just want to remind everybody um

[1:13:45] aside from your tour again, you got that

[1:13:47] special on HBO. It's called um Symphony.

[1:13:50] And uh you are a regular on the Daily

[1:13:53] Show. Yeah, you can go to Josh Johnson

[1:13:55] Comedy on YouTube and you go to josh

[1:13:57] johnson.com for tickets to the tour.

[1:14:00] >> Great job. One last thing before I let

[1:14:02] you go. If you want to listen to this

[1:14:04] show without ads, check out 10% Happier

[1:14:07] Plus, which is a subscription that is

[1:14:09] available right inside Apple Podcasts.

[1:14:11] If you become a subscriber, you'll get

[1:14:14] every episode ad free. That's new

[1:14:16] episodes and all the episodes from our

[1:14:19] vast 10year plus archive. Look for 10%

[1:14:22] Happier Plus in Apple Podcasts and just

[1:14:25] hit subscribe. And a quick heads up, if

[1:14:27] you're already a subscriber to my app,

[1:14:29] 10% with Dan Harris, you've already got

[1:14:32] access to AdFree podcasts. Adfree

[1:14:34] listening is baked right into your app

[1:14:36] subscription along with everything else.

[1:14:37] So, please don't pay twice. You can

[1:14:39] check out uh the app at danharris.com

[1:14:42] and you can check out 10% Happier Plus

[1:14:44] Inside Apple Podcasts. Thank you very

[1:14:46] much for listening to the show. I deeply

[1:14:49] appreciate it. See you soon. Deuces.

[1:14:52] >> Thank you so much to everybody who

[1:14:53] worked so hard to make this show. 10%

[1:14:56] Happier is produced by Tara Anderson,

[1:14:58] Marissa [music] Schneiderman, DJ

[1:14:59] Cashmir, David Hart, and Hayden Broom.

[1:15:02] Our recording and engineering is handled

[1:15:04] by the [music] great folks over at Pod

[1:15:05] People. And Nick Thorburn of the indie

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[1:15:11] theme. Thanks for listening. Peace.

Ten Percent Happier
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Explorer les thèmes
Anxiety-rationalityMeditation-acceptanceContemplative-practiceNews-cycleAcceptance-vs-resignation

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Questions fréquemment posées

Not exactly. Meditation can help regulate your nervous system so you think more clearly, but it doesn't change external reality. If you're anxious about legitimate problems, meditation helps you stay calm enough to address them—not to transcend the need to care.
Acceptance means clearly seeing that a problem exists, which is the only foundation for actually addressing it. Resignation is pretending there's nothing you can do. You accept reality, then you act from that honest ground.
Sometimes both. Some anxiety is distorted thinking, but some anxiety accurately reflects real uncertainty and risk in the world. The job isn't to convince yourself you're wrong to worry—it's to distinguish between anxieties you can act on and ones you need to carry without letting them paralyze you.
Meditation can help you stay regulated enough to think clearly about what's happening and what you can actually influence. But it won't erase the legitimate stress of an uncertain political or economic landscape—and trying to use it that way is spiritual bypassing.
One method is to ask: 'Will I care about this a year from now?' It's a filter that sorts genuinely consequential problems from anxieties about distant futures. But grounding also comes from community, real relationships, and a practice (whether meditation, comedy, or something else) that keeps you showing up.
Your nervous system may be responding to structural uncertainty—economic systems that feel fragile, political unpredictability, or even normalized threats like school-shooter drills. That edge isn't personal failure; it's a rational response to living in genuinely uncertain times.
Yes, but the goal isn't to use meditation to escape those feelings. The goal is to develop enough attention and calm that you can address what's actually causing the depression or anxiety—sometimes through action, sometimes through acceptance, sometimes through getting help from other people.

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